>
2501. jexster - 12/21/2003 1:19:38 PM
Our moralists compete in criticising the lies, distortions, and
exaggerations of our Master Planners. But the majesty that certain spin doctors
show in giving us nonexistent morsels to chew on should command our
admiration....Plato permitted lying in only two occupations: doctors and
statesmen...Yet it is reassuring to note that the same distortions that allow
Washington to give credibility to its war will hasten its defeat in the end."
More directly, lies have consequences.
2502. jexster - 12/21/2003 1:21:09 PM
liars, incompetents
lies, consequences
flies, flypaper
2503. jexster - 12/21/2003 1:46:02 PM
Eddie here's anoth newsflash from Planet Earth....party hearty
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The government on Sunday raised the national
threat level to orange, the second-highest, saying attacks were possible during
the holiday season and that threat indicators are ``perhaps greater now than at
any point'' since Sept. 11, 2001.
``Information indicates that
extremists abroad are anticipating near-term attacks that they believe will
rival or exceed the scope and impact of those we experienced in New York, at the
Pentagon, and in Pennsylvania more than two years ago,'' Homeland Security
Secretary Tom Ridge said in a statement released before his news conference on
the announcement.
2504. jexster - 12/21/2003 1:46:20 PM
er
2505. robertjayb - 12/21/2003 2:06:47 PM
Condi reluctant to testify under oath...Oh. I wonder, wonder
why...This could get interesting, methinks...
TIME---Poised
to convene its first hard-hitting hearings in January, the federal commission
investigating the 9/11 attacks continues to be at odds with the White House over
access to key information and witnesses. Two government sources tell TIME that
National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice is arguing over ground rules for her
appearance in part because she does not want to testify under oath or, according
to one source, in public. While national security advisers are presidential
staff and generally don’t have to appear before Congress, the commission argues
that its jurisdiction is broader—and it's been requiring fact witnesses in its
massive investigation to testify under oath.
2506. Al D - 12/21/2003 3:45:44 PM
Judith
I suggest Al D read it and I will link it in as soon as
it's available. He was asking a few months ago exactly what influence the people
mentioned in the article had on the adminisatration; he'll know after reading
that article.
Can you locate the post where I said that. There are
times that what I say and what you understand are two different things. To be
specific, certain people who were insisting that Bush fire people, at least one,
that I don't believe worked directly for the government. That people have
influence and input is another matter. I will indeed read the article you
mention, in fact I'm sure I could get it from any # of my friends who are avid
readers of MJ.
2507. judithathome - 12/21/2003 6:03:23 PM
Al, no, I cannot locate the post where you said something like what I
paraphrased because I don't obsess over posts and hold them in reserve for later
jabs and I don't pore over thousands of posts looking for one where someone
might have said something in a certain way so that I can ridicule them later
over their statements. That's a hobby others seem to enjoy. I don't.
I
am not accusing you of anything nefarious in your statements...I merely thought
you might like to read the article. It seems to be an excellent overview of waht
led up to this war and how things were interpreted by many people close
to the administration.
Speaking of reading into things what people might
not have meant: I honestly thought you might find the article interesting; I in
no way meant "Al had better read this because he is a confused old coot." But if
you took it that way, it would seem I am not the only one understanding things
differently than how they were meant.
2508. Al D - 12/21/2003 8:43:54 PM
As my dear old Dad uses to "Jesus H. Christ!" Why do you come on so strong
over such a little point. I am aware that the neo-cons had Iraq in their sights.
But when posters start talking about Bush fireing Richard Pearle when I was
under the impression he was not in the administration, I question them. I am an
old coot, I suppose, but maybe not as confused as you Liberals seem to believe.
Or is it just that age=addled. At one time, I imagine, they was respect for
elders. We have come to sadder days, alas.
Lots of family arriving tomorrow, so I will wish you a very merry
Christmas, dear Judith, and to all others also. We all know that it is love that
makes the world go round.
2509. judithathome - 12/21/2003 8:48:31 PM
Merry Christmas to you, too, Al...I am thinking you mistook my tone or maybe
I'm just stir crazy in this cast for three weeks now and overly verbose.
Whatever, have a nice visit with your family.
(And as for age and
respect for elders, I think I can put in a claim for that myself...I'm old
enough to be everyone's mother on this board except for you...ha!)
2510. Al D - 12/21/2003 8:57:18 PM
Maybe so Juith, but aren't you glad you're not!
2511. jayackroyd - 12/22/2003 7:30:24 AM
Eddie,
I'm copying 2466 over to politics in order to respond to it,
which is where I think the response belongs.
2512. jexster - 12/22/2003 9:54:15 AM
Jsy
There's very good reason behind Bush's blather about democracy -
he has absolutely no intention of allowing it to Iraq any time soon. That's how
he operates. That's what he does bes shuck, jive and lie.
The Imperial
Regime is fully cognizant of the hard reality that democracy in Iraq would
establish the rule of Shia clerics, who have the only organized political
operation in the country and whose leaders are beginning to express their
intention to take over in elected body whether it be the scam 3 caucus system or
direct elections - one man one vote/
Secular forces in Iraq, to the
extent that they had any numberical strength at all, were Baathist and mostly
Sunni.
But as this
article in today's Post discusses, the Sunnis are a people under seige with
a major leadership problem. But that vacuum is being filled, not by secularists
either
Once divided and discredited clergy have stepped forward to
try to end a crisis of identity, bringing a message of political Islam to a
community that once embraced secular Arab nationalism and tribal traditions.
No longer kingmakers, the community's leaders vow that they still
hold the key to stability. But casting a shadow over conversations with men such
as Quds is a sense of dispossession, of a minority searching for a voice in the
contest to create a new state.
2513. jexster - 12/22/2003 9:57:05 AM
Now I have taken a typically American optimistic view (as best as reality
permits me to!) many times having stated that the path to a stable Iraqi state
runs through a very narrow gate ie a major initiative by Shia clerics to take
the lead in an Iraqi nationalist movement from the Baathists and enter a
religio-nationalist coalition with the Sunnis.
Against that, I posted
Regis Debray's view that the longer the occupation lasts the more certain the
prospect of a major fundamentalist civil war and disintegration of the country.
Debray knows more about Iraq than I for sure and more than any 10 Bush
Neojacobin nutters that are this mess, and in the linked article you can see the
outlines of his scenario taking shape.
I am not sure yet that it is
inevitable. UNlike Bush's neocons, I am not nor have I ever been a fan of
Marxist dialectical materialism....But I hadn't given a seconds thought to
anything like Debray's view until recently and he is on to something.
One thing for sure though.....Bush's democracy isn't on a real world
road map....They got their "course" from the Mad Hatter.
Party Hearty..
Wuz de nite befo
Crimmus;
And all ower da hood;
ereybody wuz' sleepin';
Dey wuz sleepin' good
2514. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:07:52 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A roadside bomb killed two U.S. soldiers in Baghdad
Monday, hours after troops captured a former general in Saddam Hussein (news -
web sites)'s once-feared security services on charges of recruiting ex-soldiers
to attack Americans.
The blast that ripped through a military
convoy in the late morning also killed an Iraqi interpreter and wounded two
other soldiers, the U.S. military said in a statement.
2515. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:08:55 AM
Two more sacrificed for the "course" of liars and incompetents.
Anybody clue us on what course is?
2516. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:11:07 AM
I DO! I DO! ME! Call on me Dr. Poopstain!
The Debray Scenario
"If you lose and cannot get a place in the government, you have
something to fight with," said Nadhim, wearing a white skullcap. . "It's
something to create a balance of power."
The future, he predicted, was
grim. He saw no end to the occupation. He saw sectarian strife only mounting.
"The seeds for civil war have been planted," he said, his tone matter of
fact. "I really think so."
2517. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:18:07 AM
The Debary Scenario II
Thousands of Iraqi Kurds gathered in Kirkuk
on Monday to demand inclusion of the northern oil centre in a future autonomous
Kurdish region
Attack of the Killer Kurds!
2518. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:23:49 AM
Lessons of Libya: War isn't always Necessary
2519. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:25:53 AM
The real story with the Libya development is the light it's showing on where
it likely got its nuclear starter kit: i.e., Pakistan.
New information
from North Korea and particularly from Iran is starting to show us that, in
essence, there really is no global weapons proliferation problem so much as
there's a Pakistan problem.
We now know enough to say with increasing
confidence that every state we're worrying about got either all of their help,
or their most significant help, from the Pakistanis.
This raises so many
questions and so many sharp-edged dilemmas that it is truly difficult to know
where to start.
-- Josh Marshall
Eddie, refresh me please, what
did the Queen of Hearts tell Alice Bush about making deals with dictators like
Busharaff, that fella in Uzbekistan, and the neo-commie dictator Pootie Poot
Crock of shit
Open wide
2520. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:31:16 AM
>
2521. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:33:35 AM
For those who know anything at all about Libya, however, an entirely
different interpretation is obvious. Libya proves that economic sanctions can
work. Because of its involvement in the 1988 Lockerbie bombing and other acts of
terrorism, Libya was subjected to an international embargo in 1992. The embargo
from all accounts deeply hurt Libya's economy, and it produced a stark pull-back
from support of terrorism on Qadhafi's part. The Libyan government estimated
that the world boycott cost Libya $37 billion. The economy remains small at
about GDP $40 bn. despite an oil income, but the potential for wealth is vast. A
$6 bn investment could increase Libya's daily oil production from 1.2 million
barrels a day to 2 million barrels a day. (The population at 5.5 million is so
small that this increase would yield about $1600 per person per year, if the
price of oil were about $28/b.) Western investors have been skittish (and US
entrerpreneurs have severe legal limits on their Libyan activities), and that
would have to change for oil and gas exploration to expand, e.g. There's black
gold in them thar dunes.
(Again, the hawks have explained Qadhafi's
abandonment of support for terrorism with reference to Ronald Reagan's 1986
bombing of Tripoli; not being good at math, they don't seem to realize that 1988
comes after 1986. One could more reasonably draw the conclusion that the US
aerial strike encouraged Libya to commit more terrorism.)
The UN
sanctions, but not the US ones, were eased in 1999. In the meantime, Qadhafi had
become the target of the radical Islamist Anas al-Libi, a top al-Qaeda operative
suspected of involvement in terrorism in East Africa, as well. After September
11, Qadhafi associated himself with the US war on terror, in hopes of seeing
al-Libi killed and the Libyan branch of radical Islamism devastated.
Juan Cole
2522. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:35:14 AM
Hell Iraq shows sanctions work!
Take some good advice Dear ole Dr.
Poop...believe the opposite of what Abu Dantes says..you'll get along jess fayhn
2523. jexster - 12/22/2003 11:43:35 AM
There's one thing guarandamntee ya Qadhafi didn't lose sleep over - invasion
by our Dear Leader...unless of course he's totally out of touch with reality,
living in Hope Village on another planet...
HELLO ABU ED!
Ahhhahhhahhahh
She came from
Planet Claire
I knew she came from there
She drove a Plymouth Satellite
Faster than the speed of light
Planet Claire has pink air
All
the trees are red
No one ever dies there
No one has a head
Ahhhahhhahhahh
Some say she's from Mars
Or one of the seven
stars
That shine after 3:30 in the morning
WELL SHE ISN'T
She
came from Planet Claire
She came from Planet Claire
She came from Planet
Claire
Ahhhahhhahhahhahhahh
2524. jexster - 12/22/2003 12:56:06 PM
Welcome
Back My Friends to the Show that Never Ends We're So Glad You Could Atend, Come
Inside! Come Inside!
- Welcome to the Mother of All Trials
In 1990, Sen. Alan Simpson (R-Wyo.) told Saddam that he sympathized
with his complaints that the Western media were exaggerating his mass
murders.
The
Mother of All Trials: How Reagan-Bush-Schultz-Rumsfeld Winked At Saddam's
Chemical Weapons Use
Don Rumsfeld actually went to Iraq twice,
once in
1983, and again in 1984. The work Rumsfeld did in 1983 of beginning
a rapprochement between Reagan and Saddam was detracted from by a strong State
Department condemnation of Iraqi use of chemical weapons in the Iran-Iraq war.
Schultz told Rumsfeld to explain to Saddam that the Reagan
administration
did not actually, really have any serious objections to, like, exterminating
Iranian troops like cockroaches with poison gas. It was just a general,
unspecific blanket condemnation of that sort of
thing, you know, to keep up
appearances... So, Saddam should feel comfortable about Reagan's desire to
continually improve bilateral Reagan-Saddam relations at a pace of Saddam's
choosing, and not be put off by the
unfortunate but necessary pro forma
condemnations of him as a war criminal issued at silly old Foggy Bottom."
__Despite
Saddam's Use of Chemical Weapons, GHWB Invited Tariq Aziz to DC in 1984?
>Who
Arranged the Sale of WMD to Saddam Hussein in the 1980's?
I bet
cracker jack defense counsel worldwide will line up for this MUTHA
2525. marjoribanks - 12/22/2003 3:13:33 PM
I bet you, anything you want, that the right wingers (who still shamelessly
claim humanitarian brownie-points for the ouster of Saddam) will say exactly
nothing of import about these allegations about Pak's top nuclear scientist, and
will instead bleat loudly and repetitively about something completely different
in order to distract.
This is old news, just as it is old news now that
the Bushites and the rightwingers have kept gob-shut about the fact that Daniel
Pearl's killers also backed Mohammed Atta. Incovenient reminders of, you know,
actual terrorism, actual weapons of mass destruction, actual threats to New
York's security. War on Terror, my ass.
2526. rdbrewer - 12/22/2003 3:28:01 PM
I bet you, anything you want, that the right wingers . . .
Don't forget. You already have a $200.00 bet on the table with me re
Bush winning next year. Might as well put that in the liability column and pay
up.
Welcome, back, btw.
2527. rdbrewer - 12/22/2003 3:29:19 PM
who still shamelessly claim humanitarian brownie-points for the ouster of
Saddam
And why would that be shameless? You prefer a mass murderer
in power?
2528. marjoribanks - 12/22/2003 3:50:48 PM
Brewer,
Briefly:
It is shameless to claim that Hussein's
removal, the War on Iraq, had anything but highly tangential ties to a
humanitarian impulse.
1) This was not the case made.
2) This is
not the reality, at the Azores summit a few days before hostilities were
launched it was re-iterated that even the departure of Hussein would not be
enough to call off the invasion/occupation.
3) The USA, the Republicans
in fact, had absolutely no problems doing business and cozying up to Hussein
even as the mass murderer was mass murdering. In fact, many of the same people
who now retreat to the "humanitarian war" claim did business and cozied up to
Hussein after he'd used these WMD on his own people.
4) The USA,
the Republicans in fact, stood by - with troops actually on the ground inside
Iraq - and allowed Hussein the mass murderer to mass murder his Shi-ite
opposition, an opposition the USA - A Republican president named Bush actually -
egged on to open insurrection in the first place.
5) The USA has a very
fine, and understandable, record of cozying up to and doing business with mass
murderers. Yes, I suggest you read up on the Bush buddy in Uzbekistan who has
been reliably fingered - by the recalled Brit ambassador no less - as boiling
opponents alive.
Hence, Brewer, no one is fooled by the shamelessness of
the humanitarian war angle and even less by the laughable idiocies contained in
the latter question in #2527.
2529. rdbrewer - 12/22/2003 7:40:42 PM
You're talking about the intent of the invasion, about which part of the justification was the way Hussein treated his people. I'm talking about the practical effect of his ouster. I care less what the intent was; thus, I say "so" to each of your points. Practically speaking, capturing Hussein means fewer Iraqis will be tortured and killed. That's a win in the Republican column.
2530. rdbrewer - 12/22/2003 7:43:07 PM
Please, Marj, we're friends now. You can call me "Mr. Brewer."
2531. Edmund Dantes - 12/22/2003 9:09:45 PM
This was not the case made.
Certainly it was part of the case
made, as I have demonstrated repeatedly in this thread via the most significant
speeches leading up to the conflict.
This is not the reality, at the
Azores summit a few days before hostilities were launched it was re-iterated
that even the departure of Hussein would not be enough to call off the
invasion/occupation.
Not a very good hook on which to hang such a
hat. From the Azores statement:
Iraq’s talented
people, rich culture, and tremendous potential have been hijacked by Saddam
Hussein. His brutal regime has reduced a country with a long and proud history
to an international pariah that oppresses its citizens...
We would
undertake a solemn obligation to help the Iraqi people build a new Iraq at peace
with itself and its neighbors. The Iraqi people deserve to be lifted from
insecurity and tyranny, and freed to determine for themselves the future of
their country. We envisage a unified Iraq with its territorial integrity
respected. All the Iraqi people -- its rich mix of Sunni and Shiite Arabs,
Kurds, Turkomen, Assyrians, Chaldeans, and all others -- should enjoy freedom,
prosperity, and equality in a united country. We will support the Iraqi people’s
aspirations for a representative government that upholds human rights and the
rule of law as cornerstones of democracy....
Our commitment to support
the people of Iraq will be for the long term.
We call upon the
international community to join with us in helping to realize a better future
for the Iraqi people.
Margarinebank cites this as evidence
against humanitarian liberation? I wonder if he'd even read it.
2532. Edmund Dantes - 12/22/2003 9:16:08 PM
As for this, again, I wonder what on earth he is talking about:
...even the departure of Hussein would not be enough to call off the
invasion/occupation.
...unless he's obfuscating and hiding behind
the sometimes-additional condition that Saddam's sons leave as well.
Again, from
the time of the Azores summit:
In the Azores
and on Washington talk shows, President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and
Secretary of State Colin Powell made clear that it was too late for Iraq to
disarm, too late for further weapons inspections and too late for more diplomacy
to get the world to support the U.S. case for war. Although giving the United
Nations another day to agree with the U.S. position, Bush and his lieutenants
made clear that was mere symbolism. The only means to avoid war, they said, was
Saddam's exile.
Again, this is evidence for the WMD,
non-humanitarian position? No, it bolsters the argument that the war was about
regime change.
As it was.
2533. Edmund Dantes - 12/22/2003 9:18:55 PM
Regarding points three through five, margie is just being silly. His argument is as fallacious as saying because the United States helped Stalin against Hitler we cannot possibly have been serious in our opposition to communism.
2534. jexster - 12/22/2003 9:33:01 PM
The total number of wounded soldiers and medical evacuations by the U.S.
military in Iraq is nearing 11,000, according to new Pentagon data, and 457
troops have died. But as Aseneth Blackwell, a Vietnam War widow, says, the
casualty figures can't capture the pain and suffering she has seen during visits
to D.C.'s Walter Reed Army Medical Center this year. "To see these guys walking
around up there with an arm missing, a leg missing, that is when it hits you in
the face," said Blackwell.
Lies
Have Consquences
Welcome to the Real World
2535. rdbrewer - 12/22/2003 9:33:55 PM
That was the argument for neutering the CIA back in the '70s. Crats felt is
was wrong to work with the world's creeps, even it helped us. So CIA activity
was restricted. That kind of unrealistic thinking ignores the reality that we
occasionally with have to deal with one madman in order to crack the skull of
another.
F/x, we helped Bin Laden against the USSR. Expanding Soviet
influence was regarded as a worse alternative. Likewise, we helped Hussein
against Iran which was on our shit-list at the time. That does not mean we
(including Jimmy Carter) cozied up to Hussein because we approved of his ways.
He was merely of use to us at the time.
2536. rdbrewer - 12/22/2003 9:34:28 PM
2535 was re 2533
2537. Edmund Dantes - 12/22/2003 9:55:46 PM
PUTIN PLAYS BALL: RUSSIA WILL REDUCE IRAQ DEBT BY 65 PERCENT
2538. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:38:52 PM
If Bushiewooshie gives PootyWooty a slice of the pie.... 
2539. jexster - 12/22/2003 10:41:37 PM
Of course, since there is no state, no course and a substantial likelihood that Iraq will decompse.....sounds like Emperor Moron was given the sleeve out a KGB vest.
2540. concerned - 12/23/2003 12:37:10 AM
Re. 2528 -
Truth is the first casualty when marjoribanks goes on an
anti-GWB rampage. You could almost say that the more good George W. Bush
accomplishes, the greater lengths marjoribanks will go to to claim the exact
opposite.
Thus, it is no longer France, Germany and Russia which sold
Saddam his weapons and means to produce the WMD he gassed his own countrymen and
his neighbors in Kuwait and Iran with that should be condemned. It's the Bush
Administration and Republicans in general, who freed Iraq from this menace, who
is censured instead. Thus, in marjoribanks' world, it may be allowable to
indulge in hypocritical Xlowntoonian talk of deposing Saddam, as long as it
remains only that, but woe to any Republican who sees it through. I think it's
safe to say that the majority of Iraqis would be most unhappy with Marjoribanks'
attitude.
2541. concerned - 12/23/2003 1:13:01 AM
We were kept in the dark over American Unilateral deal with Libya,
says France
Just call it 'additional justification' for deposing
Saddam, Dominique.
2542. alistairconnor - 12/23/2003 9:48:04 AM
Clearly, the Libya deal is a triumph for the UK. More specifically, a triumph
for Robin Cook, who initiated constructive engagement with Gaddafi in 1999.
Now Blair
wants the EU powers to pursue this approach with Syria. After the success of
the UK/France/Germany trio getting Iran aboard for nuclear inspections, he looks
like he's on a roll...
But Syria is unlikely to disarm unilaterally
unless there's a breakthrough with Israel.
2543. alistairconnor - 12/23/2003 9:53:34 AM
Objectively, it looks a lot like the nice cop/nasty cop archetype...
(Europe to Iran) - Here, have a cigarette.
(to partner) No Sam, calm
down! Just let me talk to him.
(to Iran) Did you see what he did to the guy
in the next cell? Oh, I hate it when he does that. Now listen, we can get you
out of here. Why don't you just tell me what really happened?
2544. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:12:45 AM
The
Mutha of All Trials:
Your Honor, The Defendant Saddam Hussein Calls
Donald Rumsfeld
WASHINGTON, Dec. 22 — As a special envoy for the
Reagan administration in 1984, Donald H. Rumsfeld, now the defense secretary,
traveled to Iraq to persuade officials there that the United States was eager to
improve ties with President Saddam Hussein despite his use of chemical weapons,
newly declassified documents show.
2545. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:15:49 AM
2546. concerned - 12/23/2003 11:16:33 AM
AC -
So far, France has been completely MIA on all of this progress
in disarmament being made in Iraq, Iran, Syria and Libya. Much like a spoiled
child who refuses to play because she cannot change the rules at whim. Shameful,
no?
2547. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:17:58 AM
2548. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:19:10 AM
In a related development, Emperor George Bush directed the CIA to speed production of its top secret trained trial kangaroos.
2549. concerned - 12/23/2003 11:21:30 AM
jexster's sympathy for the devil is far worse than anything he accuses Rumsfeld of.
2550. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:22:42 AM
In February, Iraq warned Iranian "invaders" that "for every harmful
insect there is an insecticide capable of annihilating it." Within weeks,
the American authorities intercepted precursor chemicals that were bound for
Iraq. Finally, on March 5, the United States issued a public condemnation of
Iraq.
But days later, Mr. Shultz and his deputy met with an Iraqi
diplomat, Ismet Kittani, to soften the blow. The American relationship with Iraq
was too important — involving business interests, Middle East diplomacy and a
shared determination to thwart Iran — to sacrifice. Mr. Kittani left the meeting
"unpersuaded," documents show.
Mr. Shultz then turned to Mr. Rumsfeld.
In a March 24 briefing document, Mr. Rumsfeld was asked to present America's
bottom line. At first, the memo recapitulated Mr. Shultz's message to Mr.
Kittani, saying it "clarified that our CW [chemical weapons] condemnation was
made strictly out of our strong opposition to the use of lethal and
incapacitating CW, wherever it occurs." The American officials had
"emphasized that our interests in 1) preventing an Iranian victory and 2)
continuing to improve bilateral relations with Iraq, at a pace of Iraq's
choosing, remain undiminished," it said.
2551. concerned - 12/23/2003 11:26:11 AM
This proves that jexster is in league with Islamist whackjobs.
2552. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:26:57 AM
2553. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:29:56 AM
Anthony C. Zinni's opposition to U.S. policy on Iraq began on the
monsoon-ridden afternoon of Nov. 3, 1970. He was lying on a Vietnamese
mountainside west of Da Nang, three rounds from an AK-47 assault rifle in his
side and back. He could feel his lifeblood seeping into the ground as he slipped
in and out of consciousness.
He had plenty of time to think in
the following months while recuperating in a military hospital in Hawaii. Among
other things, he promised himself that, "If I'm ever in a position to say what I
think is right, I will. . . . I don't care what happens to my career."
That time has arrived.
2554. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:31:07 AM
TD you best sit down, take a deep breath, and I'll call an ambulance
2555. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:32:00 AM
Meanwhile Uncle Saddam has some insecticide that may help. Its MADE IN USA so there's no need for you to worry..just take a deep breath.
2556. concerned - 12/23/2003 11:35:50 AM
Re. 2553 -
The time when Zinni commits professional suicide?
2557. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:36:05 AM
Over the past year, the retired Marine Corps general (and chief of US
Central Command) has become one of the most prominent opponents of Bush
administration policy on Iraq, which he now fears is drifting toward
disaster.
Damned leftist Marine Corps Generals!
2558. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:36:49 AM
God knows speaking the truth to the Liar is a dangerous business!
2559. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:38:34 AM
Aahh the Regis Debray Scenario:
"I think a weakened, fragmented,
chaotic Iraq, which could happen if this isn't done carefully, is more dangerous
in the long run than a contained Saddam is now," he told reporters in 1998. "I
don't think these questions have been thought through or answered." It was a
warning for which Iraq hawks such as Paul D. Wolfowitz, then an academic and now
the No. 2 official at the Pentagon, attacked him in print at the time.
Now, five years later, Zinni fears it is an outcome toward which
U.S.-occupied Iraq may be drifting. Nor does he think the capture of Hussein is
likely to make much difference, beyond boosting U.S. troop morale and providing
closure for his victims. "Since we've failed thus far to capitalize" on
opportunities in Iraq, he says, "I don't have confidence we will do it now. I
believe the only way it will work now is for the Iraqis themselves to somehow
take charge and turn things around. Our policy, strategy, tactics, et cetera,
are still screwed up."
This party's going to a run a looong loooong
time Eddie, long time
2560. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:40:36 AM
Lies have consequences:
He had endorsed Bush and Cheney two years
earlier, just after he retired from his last military post, as chief of the U.S.
Central Command, which oversees operations in Iraq.
"I think he ran on a
moderate ticket, and that's my leaning -- I'm kind of a Lugar-Hagel-Powell guy,"
he says, listing three Republicans associated with centrist foreign policy
positions.
He was alarmed that day to hear Cheney make the argument for
attacking Iraq on grounds that Zinni found questionable at best:
"Simply
stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass
destruction," Cheney said. "There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use
against our friends, against our allies, and against us."
Cheney's
certitude bewildered Zinni. As chief of the Central Command, Zinni had been
immersed in U.S. intelligence about Iraq. He was all too familiar with the
intelligence analysts' doubts about Iraq's programs to acquire weapons of mass
destruction, or WMD. "In my time at Centcom, I watched the intelligence, and
never -- not once -- did it say, 'He has WMD.' "
2561. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:45:33 AM
The more he listened to Wolfowitz and other administration officials talk
about Iraq, the more Zinni became convinced that interventionist
"neoconservative" ideologues were plunging the nation into a war in a part of
the world they didn't understand. "The more I saw, the more I thought that this
was the product of the neocons who didn't understand the region and were going
to create havoc there. These were dilettantes from Washington think tanks who
never had an idea that worked on the ground."
Liars and
incompetents...party long time
2562. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:47:08 AM
Zinni vows that he has learned a lesson. Reminded that he endorsed Bush in 2000, he says, "I'm not going to do anything political again -- ever. I made that mistake one time."
2563. jexster - 12/23/2003 11:50:40 AM
>Saddam-Atta Memo is a
Fraud
Newsweek reports,"A widely publicized Iraqi document that
purports to show that 9-11 hijacker Mohammed Atta visited Baghdad in the summer
of 2001 is probably a fabrication that is contradicted by U.S. law-enforcement
records showing Atta was staying at cheap motels and apartments in
the US
when the trip would have taken place... 'Terrorist Behind September 11 Strike
Was Trained By Saddam,' ran the headline on the story written by Con Coughlin, a
Telegraph correspondent and the author of the book 'Saddam: The Secret Life.'
Coughlin's account was picked up by
newspapers around the world and was
cited the next day by NY Times [propagandist] William Safire. But U.S. officials
and a leading Iraqi document expert tell NEWSWEEK that the document is most
likely a forgery - part of a thriving new trade in dubious Iraqi documents."
Even Ahmed Chalabi's group called the memo "clearly nonsense", and Coughlin said
he had "no way of verifying it."
Aaah that London Daily
Telegraph again...sister publication - Jerusalem Post...Both owned by Conrad
Black financier of Richard Perle, William Buckley, George Will...
Get
the picture?
2564. jexster - 12/23/2003 12:01:31 PM
Bush has
thrown open Pandora's box in a paradise for international terrorists
Major League Imbecile..We party long time ..you me...Bring it on
2565. concerned - 12/23/2003 12:11:50 PM
Re. 2542 -
Actually, the Libya deal is another triumph for the Bush
Administration.
Rack 'em up. Ka-ching!
This is because the offer
from Moammar dates from the time of Operation Iraqi Freedom, not 1999.
2566. robertjayb - 12/23/2003 12:56:52 PM
The rooster crows and the sun rises...
2567. robertjayb - 12/23/2003 1:20:42 PM
Riverbend is
tense...
These last few days have been truly frightening. The
air in Baghdad feels charged in a way that scares me. Everyone can feel the
tension and it has been a strain on the nerves. It's not so much what's been
going on in the streets- riots, shootings, bombings and raids- but it's the
possibility of what may lie ahead. We've been keeping the kids home from school,
and my cousin's wife learned that many parents were doing the same- especially
the parents who need to drive their kids to school.
We've been avoiding
discussing the possibilities of this last week's developments… the rioting and
violence. We don't often talk about the possibility of civil war because
conferring about it somehow makes it more of a reality. When we do talk about
it, it's usually done in hushed tones with an overhanging air of consternation.
Is it possible? Will it happen?
2568. wonkers2 - 12/23/2003 4:07:22 PM
The Conrad Black connection with George Will, Richard Perle, William Buckley, et al, was detailed by Paul Krugman in his op-ed in the NYT today, linked in the politics thread. (#1852) The right-wing conspiracy has gone international.
2569. alistairConnor - 12/23/2003 7:24:02 PM
Message # 2546.
concerned
AC -
So far, France has been completely MIA on all of
this progress in disarmament being made in Iraq, Iran, Syria and Libya. Much
like a spoiled child who refuses to play because she cannot change the rules at
whim. Shameful, no?
I guess you missed where the foreign ministers
of France, Germany and the UK flew to Iran to sign the nuclear inspection deal.
That's OK, keep those blinkers on, Con. Never back down or apologise for
errors. Clearly, the only way you can keep your mind focused is to keep it
narrow.
2570. concerned - 12/23/2003 7:39:47 PM
Oh, so sorry to miss France's mosquito-like contribution in Iran. Very important to Gallic ego, I know.
2571. rdbrewer - 12/23/2003 8:08:24 PM
Le Figaro wails:
French diplomacy finishes the year on a morose note.
Not only must it watch American trains passing, in Iraq as in Libya, but it must
also applaud. The success obtained by George W. Bush in his fight against 'rogue
states,' with the arrest of Saddam Hussein and then Qaddafi's renouncing of
weapons of mass destruction, have placed Paris in a delicate position.
--"via Andrew
Sullivan"
2572. rdbrewer - 12/23/2003 8:09:30 PM
Le Parisien:
"If a glorious solitude is the price of greatness, no one
can doubt that France lives the highest hours of its civilization."
--ditto
2573. jexster - 12/23/2003 9:47:24 PM
The Lies Are Getting Deeper, the Liars More Desperate:
New
theory for Iraq's missing WMD: Saddam was fooled into thinking he had them
December 24: British officials are circulating a story that
Saddam Hussein may have been hoodwinked into believing that Iraq really did
possess weapons of mass destruction.
Damned winking hoods
everywhere!
2574. jexster - 12/23/2003 9:48:30 PM
Now all they have to do is figure out another reason for our being there and a way out.
2575. concerned - 12/24/2003 12:33:09 AM
Re. 2571 -
France has to learn to expand its diplomatic playbook wrt
dictatorships and terrorist states to include something besides coddling.
2576. concerned - 12/24/2003 1:39:26 AM
This one's for Alistair Connor:
Has France shot itself in the foot?
Hey, AC -
Amir Taheri compiles a truly remarkable list of French unilateralist
diplomatic arrogance and incompetence. Upon reading this, the most ignorant
snail licker would have to admit that the French clearly neither play well with
their neighbors in Europe or the United States, nor benefit from the results.
Taheri writes:
The French have seen Saddam Hussein’s capture
on television and found him not worthy of the efforts that their government
deployed to prolong his rule. They have also seen the Iranian mullahs
agreeing to curtail their nuclear programme under the threat of US military
action. And just this week they saw Muammar al-Kaddhafi, possibly the most
egocentric windbag among despots, crawl into a humiliating surrender to the “
Anglo-Saxons”.
Yet the French diplomatic community still tries to
somehow inculpate the US with hilariously revealing quotes like: “ Vengeance
is a hamburger that is eaten cold,”
Taheri does not pull his punches
wrt the abject failures of French policy wrt Iraq and Africa either, stating:
France’s policy in the Middle East and Africa is also in a mess.
France’s passionate campaign to keep Saddam in power won no plaudits
from the Arabs.
Many Arab leaders regard France as a maverick power that
could get them involved in an unnecessary, and ultimately self-defeating,
conflict with the United States.
“I cannot imagine what Chirac was
thinking,” says a senior Saudi official on condition of anonymity. “How could he
expect us to join him in preventing the Americans from solving our biggest
problem which was the presence of Saddam Hussein in power in Baghdad?”
Another senior Arab diplomat, from Egypt, echoes the sentiment.
2577. concerned - 12/24/2003 1:39:41 AM
“The French did not understand that the Arabs desired the end of Saddam,
although they had to pretend that this was not the case,” he says.
In
Africa, the recent Libyan accord with Britain and the US deals a severe blow to
French prestige. Libya is the most active member of the African Union and its
exclusion of France, also from talks on compensation for victims of Libyan
terrorism, sets an example for other African nations.
So, tell us,
AC. What delusions or overweening fatuosities could have compelled the French to
have have been so self defeatingly shortsighted?
2578. concerned - 12/24/2003 1:46:21 AM
Could it be that the notorious Inspector Clouseau is steering the French ship of state? The symptoms are certainly evident.
2579. concerned - 12/24/2003 1:50:49 AM
Of course, there is one huge difference. The movie scripts were written so that events sometimes contrived to eventually allow Clouseau to reach his objective, despite his almost inconceivable incompetence. Such a 'guardian angel' does not exist for France in the world today.
2580. jexster - 12/24/2003 9:50:58 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Three US soldiers were killed in a roadside bombing near the restive city of Samarra, north of Baghdad, a US military spokesman said.
2581. jexster - 12/24/2003 10:11:10 AM
Yellow Cake Lie Born of Bush Desperation for War Scowcroft Report Charges
2582. jexster - 12/24/2003 10:13:12 AM
Occupation Forces Bomb Baghdad
2583. jexster - 12/24/2003 10:37:28 AM
The Second End to Major Hostilities? - Defense and the National
Interest
In telling us his thoughts on the capture of Saddam
Hussein, President George W. Bush did not err by re-announcing the “end of major
hostilities” in Iraq. He didn’t have to; others have been making that mistake
for him.
Commanders in Iraq, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice,
and others tell us Saddam’s loyalists will still take their toll of violence
against our forces and Iraqis who serve them. Dr. Rice and others have learned
from their past mistake of advising the President to declare the worst of the
fighting and dying to be over. However, from occupation chief Paul Bremer’s
ebullient “We got him” to the Army officer who declared “a tremendous negative
impact on the Baathist insurgency” to a virtual horde of
domestic
prognosticators, we also hear a major corner has been turned. With Saddam behind
bars, they imply or state outright the path now clear for a happy ending for the
American adventure in Iraq.
That is not the case. The tipping point –
that is, the Bush crowd’s version of the Indochinese “light at the end of the
tunnel” -- is no where in sight. This sign-post in their linear vision of the
war will remain invisible, indeed non-existent, as long as Washington D.C.
continues fundamentally to misunderstand the nature of the conflict in Iraq.
Winslow T. Wheeler is a Visiting Senior Fellow at the Center for
Defense Information.
After working on Capitol Hill on national security
issues for 31 years, he is writing a book about Congress and defense policy,
“The Wastrels of Defense.”
2584. jexster - 12/24/2003 10:38:53 AM
Our soldiers have been fighting bravely as they are
trained, equipped,
and ordered, but Washington was and remains caught in a cultural warp fighting a
war beyond its comprehension.
2585. jexster - 12/24/2003 12:48:46 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A huge explosion rocked central Baghdad on Wednesday night,
quickly followed by a firefight.
The blast appeared to come from
the area around the Sheraton Hotel, on Abu Nawas Street near the east bank of
the Tigris River. U.S. military officials could not immediately be reached for
comment.
2586. jexster - 12/24/2003 2:03:52 PM
Above:
U.S. soldiers instruct an Iraqi to tell Santa what he wants for
Christmas
BAGHDAD, IRAQ—On almost every corner in Iraq's
capital city, carolers are singing, trees are being trimmed, and shoppers are
rushing home with their packages—all under the watchful eye of U.S. troops
dedicated to bringing the magic of Christmas to Iraq by force.
"It's important that life in liberated Iraq get back to normal
as soon as possible," said Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz at a press
conference Monday. "That's why we're making sure that Iraqis have the best
Christmas ever—something they certainly wouldn't have had under Saddam Hussein's
regime."
To that end, 25,000 troops from the 3rd Armored Cavalry
Regiment and 82nd Airborne Division have been deployed. Their missions include
the distribution of cookies and eggnog at major Iraqi city centers, the
conscription of bell-ringers from among the Iraqi citizenry, and the enforcement
of a new policy in which every man, woman, and child in Baghdad pays at least
one visit to 'Twas The Night... On Ice.
2587. jexster - 12/24/2003 2:04:57 PM
Above: A mosque in Baghdad decorated by U.S. troops
2588. jexster - 12/24/2003 2:08:56 PM
Still, Iraqis report that they are unable to get into the Christmas
spirit.
"Why am I supposed to feel joy for the world?" said 34-year-old
Baghdad mechanic Hassan al-Ajili as he stood in line for his mandatory visit
with Santa. "My country is still at war. I need an American identification card
to get anywhere in my own city. Now, for some reason, men with machine guns have
placed two rows of jingling antlered pigs on the roof of our house. This is
insane.
2589. jexster - 12/24/2003 8:52:40 PM
Lies Have Consequences: Iraqis rocked by mayhem and bloodshed on Christmas Eve
2590. concerned - 12/25/2003 1:16:35 AM
Re. 2588 -
jexster -
What is the point you're trying to make
here? That religious intolerance is a good thing in your opinion? Or that Iraqis
are ignorant?
2591. jexster - 12/25/2003 11:04:45 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Rockets and mortars pounded Baghdad on Christmas morning as
guerrillas launched their most serious offensive in Iraq (news - web sites)
since the capture of former dictator Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).
The city was awakened by thunderous booms and gunfire as guerrillas
roamed the city, causing mayhem as they struck a major hotel and three foreign
embassies.
Four rockets struck the citadel-like main US compound in
the capital and an oil ministry guardpost was sprayed with bullets.
A woman was slightly wounded when a rocket tore into her family's
apartment, while a policeman's hand was blown off as he attempted to defuse a
roadside bomb on a busy commercial street.
After a lull, with the
arrest of Saddam Hussein on December 13, violence has spiked upwards, with
multiple attacks around the country.
2592. jexster - 12/25/2003 11:06:11 AM
Aaah isn't that what fine art is all about, meaning...what is the meaning?
What is the intention of the artist?
The true artist never tells!
A Merry Christmas to all and to all ....
2593. jexster - 12/25/2003 11:07:21 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Anti-American guerrillas sent more than a dozen rockets and mortar rounds slamming into Baghdad on Christmas Day, hitting hotels, embassies and the vicinity of the U.S.-led occupation authority in Iraq (news - web sites).
2594. jexster - 12/25/2003 11:13:42 AM
Since we've failed thus far to capitalize,I don't have confidence we will
do it now. I believe the only way it will work now is for the Iraqis themselves
to somehow take charge and turn things around. Our policy, strategy, tactics, et
cetera, are still screwed up..... These guys don't understand what they are
getting into.The more I saw, the more I thought that this was the product of the
neocons who didn't understand the region and were going to create havoc there.
These were dilettantes from Washington think tanks who never had an idea that
worked on the ground....
The bill of goods the neocons sold him has been
proven false, yet heads haven't rolled. Where is the accountability?
Anthony M. Zinni
"
2595. robertjayb - 12/25/2003 3:12:15 PM
Riverbend seeks votes---Fills water tank...
2596. jexster - 12/26/2003 11:10:52 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Guerrillas extended the biggest insurgent attacks in Iraq
(news - web sites) since Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s capture, killing
four U.S. soldiers in mortar and bomb attacks, the U.S. military said on Friday.
Reuters Photo
Reuters
Slideshow: Iraq
Guerillas Hit Baghdad Targets
(Reuters Video)
Latest headlines:
· Eight US soldiers killed in Iraq
Christmas violence, Japan sends troops
AFP - 30 minutes ago
· Japanese
Troops Leave for Iraq Deployment
AP - 36 minutes ago
· Iraq Ambush,
Explosions Kill 3 U.S. GIs
AP - 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
Special Coverage
A roadside bomb killed one soldier and wounded another
when it exploded by a convoy near Baquba, about 65 km (40 miles) north of
Baghdad, early on Friday. A second soldier was killed the same day trying to
defuse a bomb outside the town, a U.S. military spokesman said.
Two
other U.S. soldiers were killed in a mortar attack on a U.S. camp near Baquba on
Thursday.
2597. robertjayb - 12/26/2003 8:16:31 PM
Christmas in Baghdad with Riverbend...
2598. wonkers2 - 12/27/2003 1:25:20 PM
It seems apparent that we have ignited a civil war in Iraq. And we are in the middle of it, unloved by either side. Not to mention an unknown number of outsider fanatical, suicidal Islamists who are even unfriendlier to coalition forces, NGOs, the UN, et al. What a fiasco!
2599. concerned - 12/27/2003 1:35:17 PM
Guess LWers don't know how to close an html flag.
2600. concerned - 12/27/2003 1:46:15 PM
Re. 2598 -
If it's a 'civil war', how come you can't name the
opposing factions?
2601. judithathome - 12/27/2003 3:51:11 PM
Guess LWers don't know how to close an html flag.
God knows
centrists NEVER forget to do so!
Give it a rest...it isn't only LWers
who make mistakes and rape and plunder and kill and cheat and steal...your
fingerpointing is getting very old.
2602. jexster - 12/27/2003 5:03:47 PM
KARBALA, Iraq (AFP) - Six coalition soldiers and seven Iraqis were killed and
at least 129 people wounded as insurgents terrorised the Shiite Muslim holy city
of Karbala with four suicide car bombs, machine guns and mortar fire.
The guerrillas launched attacks on Karbala's city hall and two
military bases, a Bulgarian one located near a university and a Polish one out
of town.
2603. wonkers2 - 12/27/2003 5:45:52 PM
Well, from what I've heard and read the opposing factions are the majority Shias and the minority Sunnis/Baathists. The Kurds would be a third faction, but I haven't read anything indicating they are involved in the guerilla activities.
2604. jexster - 12/28/2003 6:50:53 AM
Sistani Stands Ground on Demand for Real Democracy & General
Elections
IGC agreed with US civil administrator Paul Bremer on
November 15 that caucus-type elections, by hand- picked pro-American local
councils, would be held by the end of May. Sistani objected that such an
election would not adequately reflect the will of the Iraqi people, and insists
on one-person, one-vote general elections.
He also wanted an up-front
guarantee that the Iraqi legislature would not pass laws at variance with Islam.
The IGC has ever since been negotiating with him in an attempt to find a
compromise. AFP said, ' "Despite obstacles that have been raised, he would only
renounce elections if a UN technical team reaches the conclusion that it is
impossible to hold them and proposes another solution that would guarantee a
better representation of the Iraqi people," Sistani's spokesman said. ' Sistani
therefore stood his ground about the need for general elections.
Sistani's refusal to budge poses a severe problem for the US, which
wants now to move quickly to an "Afghanistan" model, hold an American-invented
Iraqi "Loya Jirga" or council of hand-picked notables, "elect" a transitional
government, and turn over sovereignty to it, as they did to Karzai in
Afghanistan. This plan appears to derive from despair that the US will actually
be able to administer Iraq for very much longer, given Iraqi sullenness about
the occupation, and from a desire of the Bush administration to bring home the
reporters, if not the troops, well before the November 2004 elections. Karl Rove
probably figures that the US press simply won't cover Iraq as intensively if the
US isn't running it, just as they don't cover Afghanistan ... Sistani is
therefore standing in the way of a smooth political progression that has
enormous import for the next US election. Juan Cole
2605. jexster - 12/28/2003 6:51:01 AM
OK so Bush doesn't know what course he's on but it looks more and more
like the road runs through the town Bail, Iraq.
The Regime has dumped a
raft of pet econ projects its neocon wacks had scoped as part of their
"Democrtic revolution" ....
And good for Sistani for exposing Bush's
"democratic revolution" as just more stupefyingly vapid rhetorical gas.
2606. jexster - 12/28/2003 7:15:55 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - One U.S. soldier and two Iraqi children were killed in a
roadside bomb blast in central Baghdad on Sunday, a U.S. military spokesman
said.
Capt. Jason Beck, a spokesman for the 1st Armored Division, said
the explosion in a busy shopping district also wounded 14 people.
They
included five U.S. soldiers, eight members of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps and
an Iraqi interpreter. Beck said he did not know how serious their injuries were.
``A soldier from the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment and two Iraqi children
standing nearby were killed when the IED (improvised explosive device) detonated
as a convoy was passing,'' Beck said.
2607. robertjayb - 12/28/2003 3:27:35 PM
bushies back away from Iraq schemes...(WashPost)
BAGHDAD, Dec. 27 -- The United States has backed away from several of
its more ambitious initiatives to transform Iraq's economy, political system and
security forces as attacks on U.S. troops have escalated and the timetable for
ending the civil occupation has accelerated.
Plans to privatize
state-owned businesses -- a key part of a larger Bush administration goal to
replace the socialist economy of deposed president Saddam Hussein with a
free-market system -- have been dropped over the past few months. So too has a
demand that Iraqis write a constitution before a transfer of sovereignty.
2608. jexster - 12/28/2003 9:23:44 PM
Robert, only steers and queers grow in Tejan. You sproutin horns lately have
ya?
Post the link I was goin ta..damn your eyes...
But you did
all a service I grant ya...
The insurgeents now have hnnded the
neoJacobin Trotskyite cum free range fraud Bushie incompetents what I rate ss
the Fourth Major Defeat for Wars Without Shame, Aim or End:
4.
Defeated Neo-social engineers fantasies of creating their very own Krony
Kapitalist Tejas on the Tigris
3. That capturing th6or Demon Saddam
would have any more effect on Iraq or much less US than killing any garden
variety brown recluse spider in a hole
2. That Bush had a clue what he
was doing in Iraq.
1. Yhat Yellow Cake is fit for human
consumption..
So continue to "bring it on"...Bush is lookin to bail and
we are all lookin to Eddie to tell us
Why in hell did America waste
billions of dollars and tens of thousandd of bodies for a crock of Tejas steer
shit?
And what is the course you want us to ttay?
And why
are you so friggin fat? Some sort of sexual substiiute?
Case closed.
2609. Edmund Dantes - 12/28/2003 9:36:49 PM
In the morning, I shall be skinny. And whether drunk or sober, you'll still
be an illiterate, historically ignorant loon.
For the first time in
more than a decade, four American military aircraft landed in Iran Sunday in a
gesture between two countries more noted for acrimony than mutual aid.
2610. jexster - 12/28/2003 9:41:03 PM
And add to pending questions about Bush's insipid "tip-toe
through-My-Little-Hanging-Garden-of-Democracy/No Deals With Scuzzbag Dictators"
Flower Garden, remind us again of how a cowardly and cowering Q'adaffyi gave up
a WMD program that had produced NOTHING because he was pissin his pants in fear
that George Bush's Imperial Legions would take to the Shores of Tripoli?
I have problems recallin the short term, the wacked. the insignificant
or the scent of any number of your brain farts
Thanks.
2611. jexster - 12/28/2003 9:47:21 PM
French diplomacy finishes the year on a morose note. Not only must it
watch American trains passing, in Iraq as in Libya, but it must also applaud.
The success obtained by George W. Bush in his fight against 'rogue states,' with
the arrest of Saddam Hussein and then Qaddafi's renouncing of weapons of mass
destruction, have placed Paris in a delicate position.
WOW out of
the Mouths of Morons!
Now why would anyone in his right mind trade
one used up sorry satrap in a spider hole with no WMD's and a pathetic, has been
of Moslem secularism whose ass is threatened by Jihadists whose WMD program
could kill a cockroach, for $200-400 Billion bucks, thousands of casualties, and
unprecedented hemorraghe of power/influence?
Make mine with brie on
a baguette thank you very much.
Vive La France!
2612. jexster - 12/28/2003 9:49:58 PM
Look what they get for holding out against easy sleazy deals with
Qadaffi...Andrew Sullivan carrying a big bag of wounded French pride.
And only a few billions of dollars..bargain at twice the price
2613. Edmund Dantes - 12/28/2003 9:53:11 PM
Not fat: 
2614. jexster - 12/28/2003 9:56:58 PM
God damn Eddie ...if that's you, I how much you chargin!
Are you the
stud of my wet dreams or just another caked yeller crust on my sheets?
2615. jexster - 12/28/2003 10:04:14 PM
This is funny....Bremmer was asked to comment on Blair's claims that David
Kay had uncovered as a massive hidden net of Saddma WMD labes...kicker being
that the reporter who asked the questtion didn't attibute source...So Bremmer,
mind sharp as a tack, smelled a rat, suspected he was being set up.... Ain't
no such thing...why you've been conned...Sone shady fuck of a Saddmite done set
you up with a Red Herring just to discredit the Emperor...
Damn
but it wasn't some dickless prevert like Noam Chomsky it was Tony Blair, you'd
think that after a couple of years at the end of Bush's leash, he'd have learnt
a thing or two about Lyin...
2616. wonkers2 - 12/28/2003 10:32:46 PM
There's a lot to be said for the unvarnished truth.
2617. wonkers2 - 12/29/2003 11:01:00 AM
Last night in a preview of Fog of War Robert McNamara said that one of our mistakes in Vietnam was to regard the conflict as a war against communism when in reality it was a Vietnamese civil war. The analogy between Vietnam and Iraq can easily be overdone, but it seems to me that we have ignited a civil war there. And we are in the middle of it, increasingly disliked by all sides. It's also analogous to Yugoslavia and Saddam to Tito. Saddam is no longer around to keep the lid on the feuding factions, and we are unable to do it.
2618. robertjayb - 12/29/2003 11:40:05 AM
Speaking of keeping lids on:(LATimes---registration
required)
BAGHDAD — Seen by a distrustful public as a tool of the
occupying powers, Iraq's Governing Council is coming of age on the job as it
tries to define a leadership to take over from the United States and its allies.
But as the 25-member body steers Iraq toward sovereignty, promised in a
mere six months, it is acting like a defiant adolescent, challenging the
authority and wisdom of those who gave it life. And its bargaining position has
been strengthened by the Bush administration's apparent eagerness to declare its
mission accomplished before the U.S. presidential election.
2619. jexster - 12/29/2003 12:01:44 PM
IGC
Has Little Georgie By the Short Hairs!
That'll teach him to open
that big dumb pie hole of his -
yappin about democracy!
Liar,Liar
Pants on Fire...got em caught on the telephone wire
2620. jexster - 12/29/2003 12:11:44 PM
L'audace, toujours l'audace!
The council began flexing its
muscles last month when it undertook a review of Bremer's gubernatorial
appointments ... Council members are challenging such regional appointments by
Bremer, insisting they are better acquainted with the needs and values of Iraqis
than an American making personnel choices under deadline pressure.
While the council appears ready to accept Bremer's conclusion that
direct elections for the next leadership bodies are impossible due to time
constraints, the proposed caucus system continues to be looked at askance by
Iraq's most powerful religious leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani. His threat
to denounce the caucus method as illegitimate would probably dissuade many
Shiites, who constitute more than 60% of the Iraqi population, from
participating in the process...
Looks like the Debray scenario is
really beginning to take shape ie the longer we stay the worse things be when we
leave...
2621. jexster - 12/29/2003 1:19:30 PM
Republican Apologetics for Occupation Failures Hit Astounding
Lows
Josh Marshall writes: "This is an unfortunate passage. It
comes from David Brooks' column in tomorrow's Times:
'But ours is the
one revolution that worked, and it did precisely because our founders were
epistemologically modest too, and didn't pretend to know what is the good
life,only that people should be free to figure it out for themselves. Because of
that legacy, we stink at social engineering. Our government couldn't even come
up with a plan for postwar Iraq - thank goodness, too, because any 'plan'
hatched by technocrats in Washington would have been unfit for Iraqi reality.'
I don't know where to start. The failure to do
proper planning for
post-war Iraq, it turns out, wasn't a matter of hidebound ideologues who ignored
and attacked expertise and experience. It was the happy result of America's
tradition of non-ideological pragmatism.
This is screw-up laundering
with a spritz of history tossed on."
On the very day that i8t was
reported the Wackos dumped a half a ton of ideological social engineering
blueprints for their New World Order!
2622. jexster - 12/29/2003 1:29:32 PM
Bad enough that liars are runnings but incompetent liars, a are armadillos of
a different color entirely...
Guardian UK -
George W. Bush - Highly Toxic Weapon of Mass Political
Destruction:
Bremmer Humiliates Blair Over WMD Lies
"In a
Christmas message to British troops, Tony Blair claimed there was 'massive
evidence of a huge system of clandestine laboratories'.
The Iraq Survey
Group (ISG) had unearthed compelling evidence that showed Saddam Hussein had
attempted to 'conceal weapons', the Prime Minister said. But in an interview
yesterday, Paul Bremer flatly dismissed the claim as untrue -without realising
its source was Blair...
'I don't know where those words come from but
that is not what [ISG chief] David Kay has said,' he told ITV1 ...
Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman Menzies Campbell said he
would be pressing Ministers when Parliament returned in the New Year on what
precisely the Government knew. 'It is high time the Prime Minister cleared this
matter up once and for all,' he said...
In recent days, senior Whitehall
officials have raised the extraordinary possibility that Saddam did not have
weapons of mass destruction after all - but believed he did after being misled
by his own advisors."
2623. jexster - 12/29/2003 2:05:59 PM
And from today's paper, Houston we have a little firestorm in here in old
London town...
Blair WMD claim a 'red herring', says Bremer
America's top man in Iraq heaps scorn on PM's allegation
Tony Blair faced fresh allegations yesterday that he had "sexed up"
an official report into Saddam Hussein's ability to produce weapons of mass
destruction after the US official running Iraq dismissed out of hand his latest
controversial claim.
The Conservatives said Mr Blair's assertion,
made to British troops in mid-December, that there was "massive evidence of a
huge system of clandestine laboratories" was a piece of "sexed-up information"
uttered "to save his skin".
Irrelevant eh?
Bush better get
his ass out of that TarPit ASAP..
2624. jexster - 12/29/2003 2:10:58 PM
Robin Cook, who has become a formidable backbench critic on the war, said:
"If there is massive evidence of clandestine laboratories it does seem rather
curious that Paul Bremer, who is running Iraq, doesn't know about it. The truth
is the Iraq Survey Group found no evidence of weapons, no delivery systems, no
chemical or biological weapons and found no laboratories to produce them.
"This is unquestionably embarrassing for those who try and claim there
is a chemical and biological arsenal and if they can't convince Paul Bremer, who
is remarkably on-message, how can they convince anyone outside?"
2625. jexster - 12/29/2003 2:15:15 PM
Yesterday the Labour backbencher Diane Abbott said the prime minister
risked further rebellions after alienating loyal MPs after using this argument.
"I never believed this thing about missiles being ready for fire in 45 minutes
but sadly some of my colleagues did, and they are the ones that are most bitter,
she told Sky's Sunday with Adam Boulton.
"They went and had private
chats with Tony, went back to their local parties and said 'the prime minister
has told me... ', and they feel like pillocks."
Yo Eddie how does
that feel exactly, like a "pillock"?
What the fuck is a pillock anyway?
2626. rdbrewer - 12/29/2003 4:05:35 PM
NYT Concludes No Profiteering by Halliburton. In a related story,
Jexter and WoW, conclude there is no god.
An examination of what has
grown into a multibillion-dollar contract to restore Iraq's oil infrastructure
shows no evidence of profiteering by Halliburton, the Houston-based oil services
company, but it does demonstrate a struggle between price controls and the
uncertainties of war, with price controls frequently losing.
--linked by Andrew
Sullivan
2627. OhioSTOPAS - 12/29/2003 6:58:11 PM
Remember that "top secret memo" that documented how Abu Nidal supposedly
trained Mohamed Atta in Baghdad? Haven't heard anything about it since Newsweek
established it was a fake (see my Message # 2394).
I didn't realize until reading "Altercation"
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3710880) today that the London Telegraph "reporter"
who broke the "story", Con Coughlin (yes, his first name is "Con" - should've
been a clue there) was interviewed by Tom Brokaw on "Meet the Press" the day the
Telegraph reported the story (December 14, also the day Saddam's capture was
reported).
Here it
is:
"Brokaw: . . . [T]ell us about the article that you have today
in the Sunday Telegraph about Mohamed Atta and any connections that he may have
had to the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein.
"Coughlin: Well, this is an
intriguing story, Tom. I mean, basically, when I was in Baghdad, I picked up a
document that was given to me by a senior member of the Iraqi interim
government. It's an intelligence document written by the then-head of Iraqi
intelligence, Habush to Saddam. It's dated the 1st of July, 2001, and it's
basically a memo saying that Mohamed Atta has successfully completed a training
course at the house of Abu Nidal, the infamous Palestinian terrorist . . ."
(continued)
2628. OhioSTOPAS - 12/29/2003 6:59:01 PM
"Coughlin (continued): Now, this is the first really concrete proof that
al-Qaeda was working with Saddam. I saw your interview with James Woolsey
earlier and he was talking about the article in The Weekly Standard. And there
is a lot of detail there. But this is a document, and I've had it authenticated.
This is the handwriting of the head of Iraqi intelligence, Habush, is one of the
few people still at large who is in the pack of cards. And it basically says
that Atta was in Baghdad being trained under Saddam's guidance prior to the 9/11
attack. It's a very explosive development, Tom.
"Brokaw: Thank you very
much, Con Coughlin in London this morning. His article is in The London Sunday
Telegraph. You can access it on the Internet, of course. Now, back to my
colleague, the moderator of Meet the Press, Tim Russert. Tim."
Jeeez.
Real probing interview there, Tom. Does fear of being accused of "liberal bias"
require giving air time to anyone peddling pro-war, pro-Bush misinformation, no
matter how incredible?
2629. robertjayb - 12/29/2003 7:19:41 PM
Step away from that Old Farmer's Almanac and keep your
hands up...
WASHINGTON -- The FBI has warned police
nationwide to be alert for people carrying almanacs, cautioning that the popular
reference books covering everything from abbreviations to weather trends could
be used for terrorist planning.
In a bulletin sent Christmas Eve to
about 18,000 police organizations, the FBI said terrorists may use almanacs "to
assist with target selection and pre-operational planning.
2630. jexster - 12/29/2003 7:56:05 PM
One headline says it all in the Mother of All Battles - The Two Ayatollahs!
'Great Satan' Sends 'Axis of Evil' Member Iran Aid
2631. jexster - 12/29/2003 7:58:09 PM
The NyT recycled a Halliburton press release RD...you really must work on that critical thinking...let's see what the Pentagon auditors have to say, not Andrew Sullivan or the NyT reporter...
2632. jexster - 12/29/2003 8:00:39 PM
Does fear of being accused of "liberal bias" require giving air time to
anyone peddling pro-war, pro-Bush misinformation, no matter how incredible?
You may be on to something here Ohio...
Do you think
Eddie's mom accused him of liberal bias when he was just a little fat baby
boy????
Case closed.
2633. jexster - 12/29/2003 8:21:01 PM
RD - some good advice from a Loosiana man...
1. Don't take no wooden
nickels
2. Don't give a multi billion dollar no bid contract to Texan
You'll do just fine.
2634. jexster - 12/29/2003 8:48:43 PM
Meet Hezzobolah - Iraq's Newest Shiite Political Party
Thank you George W. Bush, Holy Crusader for Democracy & Moron
Annointed of the Lord!
2635. jexster - 12/29/2003 8:49:11 PM
Watch those Shiites....just watch
2636. wonkers2 - 12/29/2003 9:53:31 PM
The London Telegraph is one of the less reliable papers there. Even worse than the Times.
2637. wonkers2 - 12/30/2003 6:00:17 AM
AP Belgrade, Serbia-Montenegro--Slobodan Milosevic, in custody and on trial
for genocide before a UN court, has been elected to Serbia's parliament,
according to weekend ballot results released Monday.
The Serbian RAdical
Party, which supported Milosevic's Balkan war campaigns in the 1990s, won 81
seats in the 250-seat parliament--FAR MORE THAN THE PRO-WESTERN GROUPS THAT
TOPPLED MILOSEVIC THREE YEARS AGO, the government electoral commission said.
I wonder if the Iraqis will let Saddam Hussein run for election from
jail? And I wonder how many votes he would get?
2638. PelleNilsson - 12/30/2003 10:41:33 AM
That news item is misleading on two accounts. First, it implies that
Milosevic is associated with the Radical Prty which he is not. The party is led
by Vojislav Seselj who is also a guest of the Hague tribunal although his trial
has not yet started. Milosevic's party, the Socialists received 7% of the vote,
barely making it into parliament.
Second, the Radical Party got 28% of
the vote against 42% for the three so called "pro-western groups".
Another example of slanted reporting uncritically accepted.
2639. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 12/30/2003 12:07:58 PM
2640. jexster - 12/30/2003 12:14:21 PM
The Latest Bush Con Job: Iraqi Police
Here's a
employment test even TD could pass:
What do you think of human
rights?" Mehdi asked.
"It's good and helps humans," Abbas answered.
"What do you think of the other sex?"
"They are half or so of
society and help men serve the community."
Mehdi nodded and scribbled
some notes in the young man's file. Abbas was in.
Need work TD????
2641. jexster - 12/30/2003 12:15:16 PM
Why even Bush might be able to pass
2642. jexster - 12/30/2003 12:29:31 PM
2643. jexster - 12/30/2003 12:30:53 PM
Like most domestic disputes, much of the fighting has been done behind
locked doors, leaving us to interpret the results based on the muffled sound of
screaming voices and the occasional smash of broken porcelain. But the signs
that the neocons are on the losing end of the battle have become fairly evident
in recent weeks:
The administration has welcomed Libya back into the
community of "civilized" nations, on terms that can only help solidify Col.
Ghadafi's dictatorial regime. The deal is about as textbook a case of
realpolitik as you will find outside the archives of the Kissinger NSC.
Jim Baker has returned to the diplomatic circuit, with the speculation
being that his assignment is to liquidate not only Iraq's debt but also the
neocon illusion of remaking the Middle East into the Community of
Israel-Recognizing Nations.
The rumor mill also has uber-neocon Paul
Wolfowitz departing the Pentagon in February. Can Doug Feith -- the other half
of the necon Laural & Hardy act, be far behind?
Bush rolled out the
red carpet -- with a 19-gun salute no less -- for Chinese prime minister Wen
Jiabao, then explicitly warned Taiwan not to ditch its allegiance to the
increasingly fictional notion of "one China." So doing, he completely ignored
the howls of protest from neocon punditry that he was selling Taiwanese
democracy down the river.
The public sniping at the administration by
said punditry has become distinctly more direct, with both Newt Gringrich and
Bill Kristol harshly criticizing the White House -- if not yet the president who
lives and sometimes even works there..
2644. jexster - 12/30/2003 12:46:57 PM
In the Middle East, on the other hand, the policy differences between the
neocons and the realists were vast, and the personal animosities intense. To the
realists, the Middle East was simply another theatre in the Cold War, in which
the moderate Arab regimes were necessary evils and the state of Israel an
unwelcome distraction. America, they believed, had little choice but to rely on
its "deputy sheriffs" in the region -- Iran and Saudi Arabia -- to keep the
Soviets out and the oil flowing.
But the collapse of the Shah knocked
that policy into crisis. Saudi Arabia, everybody understood, simply wasn't
strong enough to be America's sole watchdog in the Persian Gulf. The Iranian
revolution was a match poised over the dynamite dump of Shi'a aspirations
throughout the region. The Soviets were watching closely. What was to be done?
It's an interesting coincidence that at this particular moment in
history, in September 1980, Saddam Hussein launched his war of aggression
against Iran. The war presented a irresistable opportunity for the realists: By
tilting towards Saddam, they could contain Iran, protect Saudia Arabia and --
just perhaps -- wean Baathist Iraq away from its Soviet arms supplier.
The neocons despised this policy, which ran exactly counter to their own
desire to turn Israel into America's primary ally and deputy sheriff in the
Middle East. By cuddling up to Iraq, the realists were actually strengthening
one of the Jewish state's most powerful enemies. This was intolerable.
And here we are stuck in a Tar Pit because the Bush Regime needs an
enemy to replace the good ole Commies and his neoJacobins haven't a clue how to
run a foreign policy.
2645. jexster - 12/30/2003 12:54:47 PM
Figuring out who's minding the store is always a problem with an
administration this secretive, especially since it never admits to a mistake and
rarely tosses people overboard. Or, as General Zinni told the Washington Post:
"What I don't understand is that the bill of goods the neocons sold
him has been proven false, yet heads haven't rolled," he says. "Where is the
accountability? I think some fairly senior people at the Pentagon ought to go."
Who? "That's up to the president."
The problem, I think, is that
while the neocons may be in the dog house, it's very much in the
administration's interests to obscure that fact. Firing them would draw too much
attention to the people who allowed them to crap all over the carpet -- again.
2646. wonkers2 - 12/30/2003 3:04:16 PM
Well, according to today's NYT "The Radical Party, led by indicted war crimes suspect Vojislav Seselj is estimated to have won 82 of 250 seats in Sunday's vote, making it the largest single party in the Assembly by a clear margin. Full text here
2647. PelleNilsson - 12/30/2003 3:13:58 PM
That's what I said, isn't it? You have a point?
2648. wonkers2 - 12/30/2003 3:22:29 PM
Votes for the Radical Party (32%)and the Socialist Party (7%) total 39 percent, by any reckoning a large percentage of the vote for the parties of two accused war criminals. If there is any similarity to Iraq, it's not unreasonable to assume that Saddam Hussein supporters remain a significant percentage of the population and are likely to continue their reisitance for some time and as well are likely to be a factor in future elections. The "good guys" appear to me to be a smaller percentage of the population in Iraq than in Serbia-Montenegro.
2649. wonkers2 - 12/30/2003 3:27:18 PM
Correction: The accused war criminals' parties won 41 percent of the seats in the Serbian parliament, 81 Radical Party seats and 22 Socialist. This would appear to indicate significant public sentiment against the pro-western Serbian leaders.
2650. wonkers2 - 12/30/2003 3:38:06 PM
Interesting link on the Twilight of the Neocons. I wonder who billmon is. Bright guy.
2651. PelleNilsson - 12/30/2003 3:38:38 PM
That's very true but I doubt that the parallel with Iraq is illuminating. Of course Saddam would get votes from some of the Sunni but very few from the Shia and Kurds which together make up (I think) 70% of the electorate. Say 10-15%? Could be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
2652. wonkers2 - 12/30/2003 3:41:16 PM
Well, the Shia and the Kurds aren't exactly house broken democrats any more than the Baathist/Sunnis.
2653. wonkers2 - 12/30/2003 4:03:52 PM
Somebody pointed out recently that when the Turks were in charge of what is now Iraq they ruled the area as three separate states, each with its own governor--Kurds in the north, Sunnis in the middle and Shia in the south. Forging these groups into a single, unified democratic country is problematical.
2654. rdbrewer - 12/30/2003 7:21:47 PM
The NyT recycled a Halliburton press release RD.
Right.
2655. rdbrewer - 12/30/2003 7:22:05 PM
Oh, yeah: In your dreams.
2656. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:25:51 PM
That's exactly what it was and it was obvious from the third paragraph that
the reporter had not read the contract; ASPR and didn't know squat about cost
accounting and procurement fraud...that's a tough subject...the prelim Pentagon
audit report and the Halliburton auditors ..they know their ASPR from a hole in
the ground..
Stick to football..its the only thing OKIES do well...
2657. rdbrewer - 12/30/2003 7:34:20 PM
You didn't read the article, Hex. "An examination of what has grown into a
multibillion-dollar contract . . . ." Leave out the prepositional phrase, and
you have, "An examination . . . ." IOW, the NYT examined the contract.
If that's not enough, the article also says:
So far this year, Halliburton's
profits from Iraq have been minimal. The company's latest report to the
Securities and Exchange Commission shows $1.3 billion in revenues from work in
Iraq and $46 million in pretax profits for the first nine months of 2003. But
its profit may grow once the Pentagon completes a formal evaluation of the work.
If the government is satisfied, Halliburton is entitled to a performance fee of
up to 5 percent of the contract's entire value, which could mean additional
payments of $100 million or more.
2658. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:42:58 PM
You pillock, look what you've done!
2659. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:44:14 PM
In a pig's eye!
They sat down with Haliburton flaks.
2660. rdbrewer - 12/30/2003 7:45:15 PM
IOW, "I've made up my mind. Don't bother me with facts."
2661. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:46:18 PM
Did they look at the contract documents? Did they look at the payment
applications?
Sheeeet no they didn't. They've neither the competence nor
the time nor the patience, let me tell ya. I've defended one or two federal
contractors
2662. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:46:46 PM
In my callow, mispent youth.
2663. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:47:00 PM
Before I ate Bush beef
2664. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:48:54 PM
IOW...you pay me the bucks give me the documents, check back in a few months, I give you the answer or we can wait for the feds...or maybe call the Halliburton auditors who spoke before the PR folks at the Dallas Head Shed took a giant dump on em.
2665. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:50:08 PM
This is heavy shit...the cases are complicated as hell and Halliburton could
be debarred.
Believe none of what you read, half of what you see.
2666. jexster - 12/30/2003 7:52:06 PM
2667. jexster - 12/30/2003 8:05:29 PM
War
Criminals: Blair acted like a 'white vigilante' by invading Iraq, says
bishop
Tony Blair came under attack from two of the Church of
England's most senior figures yesterday for acting "like a white vigilante" and
for lacking humility in forging ahead with the war on Iraq.
In the most
outspoken outburst, the Bishop of Durham, Tom Wright, accused religious
conservatives surrounding the US president, George Bush, of espousing "a very
strange distortion of Christianity" - particularly since, through Iraq's
reconstruction, many would gain financially.
"For Bush and Blair to go
into Iraq together was like a bunch of white vigilantes going into Brixton to
stop drug dealing. This is not to deny there's a problem to be sorted, just that
they are not credible people to deal with it," he said
2668. jexster - 12/30/2003 8:09:00 PM
2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force
require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject
to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
1.
the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must
be lasting, grave, and certain;
2.all other means of putting an end to it
must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
3. there must be
serious prospects of success;
4. the use of arms must not produce evils and
disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of
destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the
traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine
That's what they call an O-FER in baseball...
0 for 4
That's not even counting the times they "bore false witness"
2669. jexster - 12/30/2003 8:21:51 PM
For crimes against humanity....
In a separate rebuke, the
Archbishop of York, David Hope, questioned the legitimacy of the war and said Mr
Blair would have to answer to God - a "higher authority" - for his decision to
forge ahead with the conflict.
He called on people to pray for Mr Blair
and called on him to show more humility rather than exercising power in an
authoritarian way. Referring to Iraq, he said: "One of the qualities of a good
leader is that they have to be really attentive to the views of the people. It
seemed at one stage that that was not happening."
The conflict, and the
events leading up to it, had raised questions of leadership and trust.
Dr Hope went on to call on Britons to "spend more time praying
for Tony Blair", who should exercise a "calm, quiet authority".
The
coalition leaders would have to give an account to a "a higher authority," he
added, in an echo of the warning by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan
Williams, at the Iraq war remembrance service, that Mr Blair would be "called to
account."
2670. OhioSTOPAS - 12/30/2003 8:32:10 PM
Some
good news from Iraq:
"TIKRIT, Iraq - Influential spiritual leaders
from Saddam Hussein's hometown — a bastion of anti-American sentiment — are
joining forces to persuade Iraqis to abandon the violent insurgency, one of the
leaders said Monday.
"The effort marks a new, open willingness to
cooperate with U.S. forces — a shift in the thinking of at least some key
members of Iraq's Sunni Muslim minority . . ."
This is a positive
development which I'm guessing would not be occurring if Saddam were still at
large. Let's hope we can start turning the corner now.
2671. wonkers2 - 12/30/2003 9:18:26 PM
The RNC is probably spreading a little of Bush's money around among the mullahs. I hope it works.
2672. jexster - 12/30/2003 10:31:52 PM
We'll see what the Shia think
2673. Edmund Dantes - 12/30/2003 10:41:03 PM
AL
QAEDA VIDEOS FOUND IN IRAQ WEAPONS RAID
From CNN:
In addition to the al Qaeda literature and videos, the troops
found nearly 8,000 rounds of ammunition; 160 mortar rounds and six mortar tubes;
43 rocket-propelled grenade launchers and 79 rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs);
and 19 AK-47 assault rifles, as well as dozens of other weapons.
2674. jexster - 12/31/2003 8:44:56 AM
Pentagon Terminates Halliburton Contract
Guess
they don't read the NyTimes RD
And correction wonk..if Bush is giving
money to the mullahs you can bet your bottom dinar it doesn't come from RNC
slush funds..
Your Taxpayer Dollars at Work!
2675. jexster - 12/31/2003 8:47:29 AM
Pentagon to Defer Billions in Iraq Reconstruction Work - Too Many RPG's ED
2676. jexster - 12/31/2003 8:49:24 AM
The Debray Scenario - The Longer the Bungling Bacillus of Babylon Stays,
the Worse Things Will Get
KIRKUK, Iraq - Gunfire erupted Wednesday
during a protest march in Kirkuk and at least two people were killed in this
northern city where plans for a democratic Iraq (news - web sites) are dividing
Kurd, Arab and Turkmen residents.
2677. jexster - 12/31/2003 8:50:28 AM
"What I don't understand is that the bill of goods the neocons sold him has
been proven false, yet heads haven't rolled."
Yea Ed, wassup wit dat?
2678. jexster - 12/31/2003 9:45:58 AM
In
Sunni Bastion, They Are Ready for a Fight
Even with Hussein in
custody, anti-American sentiment fuels Iraqi midsection's insurgency
Better get more moolah to the mullahs quick!
2679. jexster - 12/31/2003 12:38:09 PM
Iraqi Kurds hold up banners during an earlier demonstration in
Kirkuk. Three people were killed and dozens more wounded when Kurdish gunmen
opened fire on a demonstration by Arabs and Turkmen in this northern Iraqi
city
2680. Edmund Dantes - 12/31/2003 12:42:09 PM
THE
SUICIDAL CULTISTS
The so-called Arab street and
its phony intellectuals sense that influential progressive Westerners will never
censure Middle Eastern felonies if there is a chance to rage about Western
misdemeanors. It is precisely this parasitic relationship between the foreign
and domestic critics of the West that explains much of the strange confidence of
those who planned September 11. It was the genius of bin Laden, after all, that
he suspected after he had incinerated 3,000 Westerners an elite would be more
likely to blame itself for the calamity — searching for “root causes” than
marshalling its legions to defeat a tribe that embraced theocracy, autocracy,
gender apartheid, polygamy, anti-Semitism, and religious intolerance. And why
not after Lebanon, the first World Trade Center bombing, the embassies in
Africa, murder in Saudi Arabia, and the USS Cole? It was the folly of bin Laden
only that he assumed the United States was as far gone as Europe and that a
minority of its ashamed elites had completely assumed control of American
political, cultural, and spiritual life.
Hatred of Israel is the most
striking symptom of the Western disease. On the face of it the dilemma there is
a no-brainer for any classic liberal: A consensual government is besieged by
fanatical suicide killers who are subsidized and cheered on by many dictators in
the Arab world. The bombers share the same barbaric methods as Chechens, the
9/11 murderers, al Qaedists in Turkey, and what we now see in Iraq.
2681. Edmund Dantes - 12/31/2003 12:42:32 PM
(cont.)
Indeed, the liberal Europeans should
love Israel, whose social and cultural institutions — universities, the fine
arts, concern for the “other” — so reflect its own. Gays are in the Israeli
military, whose soldiers rarely salute, but usually address each other by their
first names and accept a gender equity that any feminist would love. And while
Arabs once may have been exterminated by Syrians, gassed in Yemen by Egypt,
ethnically cleansed in Kuwait, lynched without trial in Palestine, burned alive
in Saudi Arabia, inside Israel proper they vote and enjoy human rights not found
elsewhere in the Arab Middle East.
2682. PelleNilsson - 12/31/2003 12:53:03 PM
This imbecilic Euro-hatred is as deplorable as the unreflected anti-Americanism displayed by the folks whose political views were set in stone in the 70s.
2683. Edmund Dantes - 12/31/2003 12:58:22 PM
I wouldn't call it "Euro-hatred." Plenty of Hansen's examples come from
within America's borders.
Also, many Europeans aren't ready to watch
Western ideals garrotted by this most recent reactionary barbarism.
That
percentage appears smaller, however, in Western Europe than in the US.
2684. jexster - 12/31/2003 1:52:16 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A large explosion was heard in central Baghdad on New Year's
Eve. Ambulances converged on the area near the former U.S. Embassy.
Gunfire was heard after the explosion. U.S. soldiers were seen
heading to the site of the blast, and U.S. military helicopters hovered
overhead.
Earlier in Baghdad, a car bomb exploded as a U.S. convoy
passed on a street full of shops, destroying a Humvee, Iraqi police Sgt. Thabet
Talib said. An 8-year-old Iraqi boy was killed and 21 other people were wounded,
including five U.S. soldiers and five Iraqi civil defense personnel, authorities
said.
Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armored
Division, said it was not clear what kind of bomb caused the blast.
Later in the evening, a bomb hidden in shrubs outside a restaurant
in Baghdad went off as a U.S. military convoy passed, wounding three American
soldiers and three Iraqi civilians.
2685. jexster - 1/1/2004 12:23:59 PM
Bush
Lies, People Die
Iraq WMD Hunt Has Still Found Nothing
Kay Blasts
"Fiasco"
"The teams have closed their chemical and nuclear files
and David Kay is considering stepping down. The remaining hope for the operation
is in the biological area, a field U.N. inspectors were all suspicious of.
Kay's teams have found no evidence Iraq had smallpox but has continued
questioning Iraqi biologists and were pursuing information about anthrax and
aflatoxin. Of the handful of Iraqi weapons scientists remaining in U.S. custody,
two are missile experts, and seven worked on past biological programs, according
to Iraqi officials now working for the American occupation. All continue to
claim that Iraq hasn't worked on weapons of mass destruction for years... To
date, Congress has approved $700 million for the weapons hunt... [Kay's] most
notable determination to date has been that two mobile trailers found in April
and May were not biological laboratories as senior administration officials had
claimed. In a BBC interview Kay called the trailers 'a fiasco.'"
2686. jexster - 1/1/2004 12:26:00 PM
Sunday Times:
Britain's MI6 Planted Propaganda Stories in the Media to Sell Iraq War
2687. jexster - 1/1/2004 12:29:21 PM
Bush Lies, Americans Die - Iraq Occupation Force Suicide Rate "alarmingly high"
2688. wonkers2 - 1/1/2004 12:57:06 PM
Wow! The London Times story should prove to be dynamite! The White House was apparently re-cycling some of M16's lies and adding a few of their own.
2689. jexster - 1/1/2004 1:01:11 PM
Who the fuck in her right mind even half a right working mind could possibly believe anything these dirtballs say about anything?
2690. jexster - 1/2/2004 11:46:47 AM
FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - Guerrillas shot down a U.S. military helicopter in central Iraq (news - web sites) Friday, killing one pilot and injuring another, officials and witnesses said.
2691. jexster - 1/2/2004 1:20:45 PM
Its Always Been About the Oil - British Memo Reveals Nixon Plan to
Seize Oil Fields
Nothing to be necessarily ashamed of but
nothing worth lying about either.
2692. jexster - 1/2/2004 9:33:38 PM
US
soldiers ransack Sunni mosque
Iraq's minority faith targeted in
hunt for weapons
Gonna take more than a photo op and a little
moolah for mullahs.
Its going to take...works of great substance!
Rebranding
Bush as man of peace
White House retreats from doctrine of regime
change and returns to traditional diplomacy
2693. jexster - 1/2/2004 9:36:37 PM
"They blindfolded all the worshippers and took them away. You don't see
Muslims attacking the holy places of other people," Abu Hassan, a worshipper at
the mosque, said.
Mr Kaisey acknowledged that most of the resistance was
being directed by disgruntled Sunnis but pointed out that Shias were involved as
well.The coalition also failed to appreciate that Sunnis had suffered under
Saddam, he said.
"All of us on the shura council have spent time in
prison," he said. "We suffered under Saddam. But at the end of the day this is
our country.
"If someone invaded Britain what would you do? You would
probably go and fight."
2694. Al D - 1/2/2004 10:14:08 PM
After 9/11 UBL put out a tape and talked about how people seeing two horses would naturaly choose the strong horse. He made an astute observation which is proving true. Libia's leader is a bit of a mad man, but he knows where the strong horse is. Also, Baath Party members are turning in weapons in Iraq; they are also discovering who the strong horse is.
Islam grew because Mohammed was the strong horse, ergo, must have the
strong god on his side. Perhaps Islamic fundamentalists will start to see the
folly of taking on the west.
2695. Edmund Dantes - 1/3/2004 11:12:56 AM
GAY
AND PALESTINIAN
For these gay men, life in the
seedy parts of central Israel is far better than the virtual death sentences
they fled in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Sani — not his real name —
grew up outside Gaza City, in a refugee camp whose clan networks and congestion
made privacy practically impossible. He said he realized he was homosexual at
age 16, in an encounter with another youth.
Sani’s secret was safe from
his father, a local sheik, but eventually it leaked out to the Palestinian
Authority police.
“They brought me in, held me for hours,” he told JTA.
“During one round of questioning, they made me strip and sit on a Coke bottle.
It hurt. And all the time I was more worried my family would learn why.”
Torture by Palestinian Authority security services or vigilante attacks
by relatives is a fate suffered by countless gays in the West Bank and Gaza
Strip, where sodomy carries a jail term of three to 10 years.
Islam
prescribes capital punishment for homosexual activity.
Those who survive
torture and attacks either fade into meek self-abnegation or, like Sani, break
away. But it’s an unlikely scenario, given the efforts Israel has made to
tighten its borders over the last three years to keep out terrorists.
2696. jexster - 1/3/2004 11:51:08 PM
TIKRIT, Iraq (AFP) - Four Iraqis were killed when a US convoy opened fire on
their car in northern Iraq (news - web sites) as three US soldiers were
confirmed dead in separate insurgency attacks.
Local police said the
Iraqis, including a woman and a child, were killed when a US convoy opened fire
on their car in the northern town of Tikrit, birthplace of captured former
dictator Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), but US troops in the area denied
involvement.
"The car, a grey Chevrolet Caprice, was hit by 27 shots
and skidded, resulting in the death of four people, including a woman and a nine
year-old child," Tikrit police chief Colonel Ussama Adham Abdel Ghaffer told
AFP.
2697. jexster - 1/4/2004 12:21:47 AM
'The Soldiers Took Him Away. We Haven't Seen Him Since'
The UK Guardian reports: "Mohammad al-Faysal pointed to a picture of his
father hanging in their darkened living room. 'They arrested him on May 24. He
didn't surrender. After the war he stayed in this house for two weeks. Nobody
came. He then moved to the house of one of our relatives. US soldiers burst in
suddenly, ordered everyone to lie on the floor, and handcuffed him and the other
men in the room, and took them away.' He added: 'We haven't seen him since.' Dr
Faysal's father - Sa'ad Abdul Majid al-Faysal - is a former Iraqi ambassador to
Russia. But he is
also the three of spades: number 55 in Washington's pack
of playing cards of the 55 'most wanted' members of Saddam Hussein's regime...
The Americans are believed to be holding several hundred prominent figures at
their military base at Baghdad international airport... With some of the
detainees in prison for eight months without charge, the airport base is rapidly
turning into an Iraqi version of Guantanamo Bay, they say."
2698. wonkers2 - 1/4/2004 12:27:30 AM
Ugly.
2699. jexster - 1/4/2004 12:29:34 AM
Like that do ya Al?
Hey then you'll just love this fella.....maybe
invite him for a round or two at Princeville???? 
2700. jexster - 1/4/2004 12:53:33 AM
Message # 2695
Touching Ed. Why I get all misty over your new found concern for gay
rights.
Ooh but they tell me you are a sneaky bastard Ed, a real clever
sort. Gee wonder if I missed the point of the post...what could it be...
Oh I know! You sly little passive aggressive devil you.
Why you
really have got me by my identity politics short hairs now don't you!
I
get it now.
Kill the bastards. Kill every last stinkin Moslem. Clean
& disinfect the mosques with Sarin. Why how about a queer auto-da-fe????
Make em suck cock or die. Show em a thing or two about real Western
values and strong horses.
2701. jexster - 1/4/2004 7:27:17 AM
Maybe they want their women to be women Ed. Ever stop to think of things from
their point of view? Perhaps your average red blooded towel head has a point.
{erhaps they do don't like it very much when the US invades their nation, its
troops but the vangaurd of the latest and greatest in culture fad chic -
"Lesbian bisexual chic now all the rage with US Teens"
Maybe the Muslim
faithful don't want to be forced to watch Madonna laying lip locks on Brittany?
Maybe they perfer to keep their women barefoot, burhka'ed and pregnant.
A US Army Jackboot on the neck - maybe that isn't such a terrific way to
win friends and influence people after all?
The
Ultimate Straight Male Fantasy Comes True - Bisexual Lesbian Love All the Rage
Among the Nearly Legal Set
Some see it as the latest cool trend
among girls in America's high schools. Others claim it is just teenagers doing
what they do best - being rebellious. Either way, a wave of 'bisexual chic' is
sweeping the United States.
Emboldened by such images as Madonna kissing
Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera on a TV awards show, girls are proudly
declaring their alternative sexualities at a younger age than ever before.
'It's a countrywide thing,' said Jessie Gilliam, a project manager for
the Washington-based gay and lesbian support group Youth Resource.
2702. jexster - 1/4/2004 7:27:46 AM
Lesby love...what will they think of next!
2703. jexster - 1/4/2004 8:25:40 AM
Message # 2650
Aaah the woosey elites! God daman let's not bother with the "root
causes"...let's just send in our glorious legions and kick some butt.
That this sort of mindless chest thumping drivel could pass for
thoughtful much less insightful commentary tells all that need be told about the
neocon dilletante. The Arab street's intellectuals are the only phoney baloney
being sliced these days.
2704. jexster - 1/4/2004 8:33:04 AM
aren't the only phoney baloney..
Have a slice...
Osama Bin
Laded and his jihadists thrive precisely because secular government in the Arab
world has failed its population and Israel, why sure its a fine place to be, but
not to the Arabs you see. To them, Israel and US policy in the region represent
yet another failure of secular government. That is precisely what Bin Laden
counted on. He doesn't sit around "hating freedom". He doesn't much care whether
we live or die. He just wants to discredit and humiliate the secular states in
the Muslim world so that he can advance his agenda.
Content? Forget
content for any who can prose like this seriously:
"parasitic
relationship between the foreign and domestic critics of the West"
(I
wonder what the "West" this guy has in mind!)
"an elite would be more
likely to blame itself for the calamity"
(there's no rage like that of a
phoney intellectual priss scorned)
"than marshalling its legions to
defeat a tribe"
(or more precisely marshalling THEIR tribes . Sort of
foreign legion I suppose - of course it was the West, with a big assist from the
USA who gave OBL his start and of course, we have left a shitload of broken
promises, a failing state, record opium production to keep the self ashamed
elites of europe well numbed the pain of that self loathing!)
2705. jexster - 1/4/2004 8:37:01 AM
ashamed elites had completely assumed control of American political,
cultural, and spiritual life
The effete elites - got that from Mein
Kampf or perhaps one of the more masculine NASDP intellectuals?
Thank
God for our Manly NeoJacobin Prisses at the National Review - a regular Army of
God - an elite that knows no shame (just look at their writing!). We need more
fine Likud family values for an Israel we can all be proud of.
Nice to
know though that gays in the military are the hallmark of an advanced culture.
I haven't read such overwrought pretentious drivel since the last time I
tried to finish a Said or Chomsky piece - years. These idiots are winning the
race to the bottom.
2706. jexster - 1/4/2004 8:48:35 AM
Of mighty legions and mighty mice droppings for my phoney baloney...WARNING
Ashamed Elite Self-Flagellation Zone
Wanna know why OBL is so
sucvessful...National Review & Weakly Standard are standard equipment in WH
crappers.
Think Again: A Forgotten War
Americans hear about
Iraq, but almost nothing about the war that, had it been better funded, planned
and executed, might actually have done something to arrest the threat of
terrorism.
2707. wonkers2 - 1/4/2004 9:08:17 AM
Making Compromises to Keep Iraq Whole
2708. arkymalarky - 1/4/2004 12:19:04 PM
Jex?
2709. jexster - 1/4/2004 12:59:58 PM
Not me I swear. Its all just a vast conspiracy of NeoJacobin
psuedo-intellectual crackpots to silence the voice of Truth, Sound Morals,
Clarity of Thought, and Purity of Essence.
2710. jexster - 1/4/2004 1:01:10 PM
A Zombie at Large in the Middle East
Current US strategy in the "war on terrorism" is a kind of
zombie. It has been killed, slowly and painfully, by the Iraqi Sunni Arab
insurgency of recent months. Its rotting corpse still walks around as if alive
but as time goes by more and more bits are going to fall off. The question for
uncommitted European governments, such as Gerhard Schroder's in Germany, is
whether they should join this spectacle.
It is their duty to their
citizens to be very careful in this matter. As the Istanbul bombings showed,
close support for US strategy brings with it an increased risk of terrorist
attack. Governments can legitimately ask their citizens to undergo this risk
only if they themselves have genuine confidence in US strategy. At present, it
is impossible to have such confidence.
2711. jexster - 1/4/2004 1:04:03 PM
It is not just in Iraq that US strategy is bankrupt. Despite tactical
successes such as Sunday's battle in Samarra, the fighting there, and the number
of US troops needed to contain it, have also in effect killed off the entire
"Bush doctrine" of pre-emptive war. As US soldiers and officials acknowledge in
private, the US simply does not have the troops or will for another war
elsewhere. If Washington were crazy enough to launch another war without having
itself been attacked, the result would be political revolt not just among US
allies but also within the US itself.
This is therefore a good moment
for European and other governments to insist that in return for help in Iraq and
the Middle East, the US must develop a new overall strategy. ...
the
conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, the issue that tends to unite the
Muslim world in hostility to the US and its allies. This is the best moment for
a long time to press for a genuine, two-state solution to this conflict. As
prominent figures in both Israel and the US have begun to warn, it may also be
the last possible moment.
If Israel continues on its present course,
what will emerge will in effect be a single state between the Jordan and the
Mediterranean in which a future Palestinian majority will be held down by
apartheid methods. Those making such a warning have included four former heads
of Israel's Shin Bet security service; one of their number, Ami Ayalon, has
declared that Israeli policy is "taking sure, steady steps to a place where the
state of Israel will no longer be a democracy and a home for the Jewish people".
Meanwhile Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, is looking increasingly weak
and isolated at home.
That explains the sudden rash of Likudite
propaganda in the National Review, breaking like a bad case of genital herpes.
Gay rights gay schmights
2712. jexster - 1/4/2004 1:33:24 PM
The Democratic Revolutionary: Policy or Slogan, Real or Faith
Based?
The advance e-mail notice to reporters from the White
House said that President Bush's Nov. 6 speech proclaiming a "forward strategy
of freedom in the Middle East" ....
Given that buildup, it's fair to
ask: Has anything changed? Articulating a philosophy is one thing; making policy
is another.
Yo succeed, Bush's vision must be backed by more than a near
religious belief in the universality of democracy and in what he termed
America's "calling" to bring it about. After all, it was just such faith that
led the White House to minimize the obstacles to democracy in Iraq.
Having set our sights beyond Iraq's borders, the Bush administration
must translate a philosophy into a long-term regional strategy suited to the
complexities of Arab politics. He must find a way to promote democratic
institutions there, not just assert his faith in them from here.
How
can the administration help Arab reformers escape the trap of liberalized
autocracy? ..Neoconservatives favor a policy of shaking up the region in the
hope that a shock to the system will empower democratic forces. Neo-realists
favor a decidedly less optimistic policy of incremental change, a strategy in
keeping with years of American efforts to promote democracy in the Arab world.
Although Bush's heart is certainly with the first camp, a close reading
of his Nov. 6 speech reveals that his head may be partly with the second.
Such caution is born of an ... anxiety about the growing influence of
illiberal Islamists who are waiting to hijack liberal reforms.
The most
telling aspect of Bush's speech, and of the policies being pursued by State's
MEPI, is the absence of any discussion of fundamental constitutional reforms.
2713. jexster - 1/4/2004 2:35:07 PM
Democracy
Snake Oil: Uncertain Antidote or Neocon Miracle Cure for the "Root Causes" of
Terrorism?
From latest issue of Current History, CEIP Democracy
& Rule of Law Project Director Thomas Carothers:
In the rush to
embrace a new line, the US government and the broader US need to recognize the
substantial
obstacles on the path to democratization.
One obstacle
is the facile assumption that a straight line exists between progress on
democratization and the elimination of the roots of Islamic terrorism. The
sources of Islamic radicalism and the embrace of anti-American terrorism by some
radicals are multifaceted and cannot be reduced to the simple proposition that
the lack of democracy in the Arab world is the main cause.
Second,
although many people in Washington may have decided that the Middle East’s
democratic moment has arrived, a discernible democratic trend in the region
itself is not evident.
Third, the United States faces a tremendous
problem of credibility in asserting itself as a prodemocratic actor in the
Middle East. Confronted with the notion that the Bush administration is now
committed to democracy in the region, many Arabs react with incredulity,
resentment, and outright
anger. They have a very hard time taking the idea
seriously...
As the USAdvisory Group on Public Diplomacy in the Arab and
Muslim World highlighted in its October 2003 report, “hostility toward America
[in the Muslim world] has reached shocking levels.”
2714. Edmund Dantes - 1/4/2004 2:44:26 PM
Why I get all misty over your new found concern for gay rights.
Eh. I have concern for human rights, Jasper.
Why you
really have got me by my identity politics short hairs now don't you!
Now, now, it's not all about you. Lots of bleeding-heart liberals are on
the wrong side of history--and even their supposed beliefs.
2715. jexster - 1/4/2004 3:06:21 PM
In the two years since, the US policy establishment has come to believe
that promoting democracy in the Middle East should be a component of the war on
terrorism—part of a broader effort to go beyond the active pursuit of terrorist
groups to address the underlying roots of terrorism.
Don't you just hate phoney intellectuals Ed, pathetic hucksters for some
worn out old ideology or other who forever root about like so many fat sows for
root causes to feed The Cause?
2716. jexster - 1/4/2004 3:20:43 PM
Why damn Ed you sure had me fooled !
Here I thought you were just
taking another poke at bleeding heart liberals and all the while there you were
bleeding like a stuck compassinate conservative pig! 
2717. concerned - 1/4/2004 5:03:31 PM
Palestinian refugees: championed by Arab world yet treated like
outcasts
A clear-eyed look at the true sources of discrimination
against the so-called 'Palestinian refugees', most of whom have never lived a
day of their lives within the territory of Israel.
It's time to end the
charade and for countries like Egypt, Syria and Jordan to naturalize their
'Palestinians'.
2718. jexster - 1/5/2004 10:53:06 AM
Its time to end the illegal occupation of stolen land and throw the Israelites into the sea.
2719. jexster - 1/5/2004 10:56:35 AM
WOW the Poodle speaks!
British Troops to Remain in Iraq for Several Years
What's wrong with His Master's Voice? 
DemoCat got his tongue?
2720. Edmund Dantes - 1/5/2004 11:17:41 AM
IRAQIS
BACKING STRONG HORSE
A dozen former leaders of
Saddam Hussein's Baath Party have handed in weapons caches in northern Iraq to
curry favor with the U.S. military and claim a role in a new Iraqi leadership,
the commander of the Army's 101st Airborne Division said.
"They're
coming to us, saying they want to be part of the new Iraq," Maj. Gen. David H.
Petraeus said Thursday in an interview with The Associated Press. "It has slowly
sunk in that Saddam isn't coming back."
2721. jexster - 1/5/2004 11:43:09 AM
Ahh the root cause is found where..the Horse's Ass....
TIGER BAIT
TIGER BAIT
Zombie = Dead
Man Walkin
See Message # 2710
2722. jexster - 1/5/2004 11:55:16 AM
Lies have consequences and the truth will out..
target=new>State
Department Official Says We Didn't Need To Invade Iraq
Lawrence
Korb, Asst Secty of Defense to St. Ronald Raygun writes:
"Eight months
after the Bush administration got us involved in a bloody war in Iraq, we are
now told by one of Secretary of State Colin L. Powell's closest advisers that
Iraq was a war of choice after all. According to Richard Haass, director
of policy planning at the State Department until June 2003 and still the Bush
administration's special envoy to Northern Ireland, the administration 'did not
have to go to war against Iraq, certainly not when we did. There were other
options."
Really? This is not what the administration told us before
the war and continues to tell us to this day."
2723. jexster - 1/5/2004 1:15:43 PM
Envoy predicts 'bigger bangs'
Britain's top
envoy to Iraq last night admitted that the Iraqi resistance was getting "more
sophisticated" in its attacks and predicted even "bigger" attacks in future
against coalition forces.
Speaking in Basra before meeting Tony
Blair, Sir Jeremy Greenstock said he believed fighters loyal to Saddam Hussein
were responsible for up to 80% of recent attacks in Iraq, with foreign Islamist
militants carrying out the rest.
"The opposition is getting more
sophisticated, using bigger bombs and more sophisticated controls. We will go on
seeing bigger bangs," Sir Jeremy said.
The unusually candid remarks
appear to confirm that Iraq's resistance has not melted away following Saddam's
capture last month. Eight people were killed and more than 30 injured in a car
bomb suicide attack on a restaurant in central Baghdad on New Year's Eve.
I guess that just goes to show ya Ed...you can lead a horse's ass to
water but you gotta give it an enema if you wanna make it drink.
2724. robertjayb - 1/5/2004 3:49:50 PM
Riverbend reviews
2003...
It's strange what you can get used to hearing or
seeing. The first time is always the worst: the first time you experience
cluster bombs, the first time you feel the earth shudder beneath you with the
impact of an explosion, the first tanks firing at houses in your neighborhood,
the first check-point... the first broken windows, crumbling walls, unhinged
doors… the first embassy being bombed, the first restaurant… It's not that you
no longer feel rage or sadness, it just becomes a part of life and you grow to
expect it like you expect rain in March and sun in July.
May 2004 be
better than 2003.
2725. jexster - 1/5/2004 4:15:26 PM
Sharon booed by party members after warning settlements will have to go
TEL AVIV (AFP) - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web
sites) was given a bruising ride by members of his own party when he reiterated
his support for a Palestinian state, warning it would mean dismantling Jewish
settlements in the occupied territories
Write YOUR member of the
Knesset today...tell em boos ain't on the Bush roadmap
2726. jexster - 1/5/2004 4:16:38 PM
Get used to it riverbend..a new horse is in town
2727. jexster - 1/5/2004 7:48:58 PM
Millions Left Homeless in Iraq: Mud Housing Proposed
Kurds Begin Neighborhood Community Development Efforts - Confiscate Arab
Homes
and back in the Mother Country Bush is slashing
Section 8 grants to our homeless even as their numbers swell.
The
Iraqis should count themselves luck to have mud, cause here, they wouldn't have
squat.
2728. jexster - 1/5/2004 7:51:41 PM
2729. jexster - 1/5/2004 7:52:51 PM
The 3 time failed CEO can safely add failed nationbuilder to his resume
2730. jexster - 1/6/2004 6:48:50 AM
JERUSALEM - No action will be taken against Israeli soldiers who shot and
wounded a Jewish-Israeli protester during a demonstration over a controversial
West Bank barrier, the army said Tuesday.
Sauce for the matzos not sauce
for the pita
2733. jayackroyd - 1/6/2004 11:57:05 AM
test
2734. jexster - 1/6/2004 12:34:56 PM
Uniter Not a Divider: Syria-Turkey Mark High Point" of Relations During
Assad Visit to Ankara
ANKARA (AFP) - Turkey and Syria pledged to
work together to bring peace to their long-troubled region at the start of a
three-day landmark visit by Bashar al-Assad, the first Syrian president to visit
Ankara. "My visit comes at a time when Turkish-Syrian relations are reaching
towards a peak, but our region is going through a bad period," Assad told an
official welcoming ceremony at the presidential palace.
"We have
moved together from an atmosphere of distrust to one of trust. We now have to
change the atmosphere of instability in the region to one of stability," Assad
said before talks with his Turkish counterpart Ahmet Necdet Sezer.
Assad's visit follows a marked improvement in ties between the two
neighbours which nearly went to war in 1998.
Sezer said talks would
focus on improving bilateral cooperation, but also touch on regional issues,
including the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, peace in the Middle East and the
situation in Iraq (news - web sites), their common neighbour.
2735. jexster - 1/6/2004 1:43:03 PM
The
Debray Disintegration Scenario:
Trouble looms after coalition tells Kurds
self-rule can stay
2736. jexster - 1/7/2004 11:59:58 AM
Saddam captured by Kurds?
Case Closed.
One of the persistent
rumors trailing Saddam's capture is that it was the Kurds and not U.S. forces
who were responsible for tracking down Public Enemy Numero Uno. According to
this Sunday Herald story, Kurds will be amply compensated for their services not
just in terms of cold hard cash, but also U.S. support for their rights within a
future Iraqi federation
2737. jexster - 1/7/2004 12:01:20 PM
Saddam’s capture: was a deal brokered behind the scenes?
When
it emerged that the Kurds had captured the Iraqi dictator, the US celebrations
evaporated. David Pratt asks whether a secret political trade-off has been
engineered
Convenient headline!
2738. jexster - 1/7/2004 12:03:18 PM
Tales of derring do spun out of Centcom whole cloth.
2739. KuligintheHooligan - 1/7/2004 1:07:03 PM
Here's a very long, thorough article on Iraq and its weapons arsenal before
Saddam was deposed. This article, at least for me, provides enough clarity on
the intelligence question, what we knew and didn't know, and how thorny such
intelligence can be. Again, we had every reason to believe that Saddam still had
WMDs before March 2003.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&ncid=1802&e=1&u=/washpost/20040107/ts_washpost/a60340_2004jan6
2740. Edmund Dantes - 1/7/2004 1:17:56 PM
Very nice link, Kul.
Clickable
and to WP original
2741. jexster - 1/7/2004 1:41:12 PM
Thanks Ed...But that was just more of my message flotsam.
The link is
in AP...guess what?
Saddam told the truth and Bush lied.
Alice
in wonderland eh?
2742. Magoseph - 1/7/2004 2:10:53 PM
Today's Washington Post 2743. angel-five - 1/7/2004 2:25:49 PM
Earthquake reveals
seismic shift in Iranian view of US 2744. marjoribanks - 1/7/2004 2:55:07 PM
That's an interesting article. 2745. Wombat - 1/7/2004 3:17:19 PM
It's kind of ironic. Saddam lied and evaded and was caught out until no one
believed him, even when he was--apparently--telling the truth about the status
of Iraq's WMD. 2746. Wombat - 1/7/2004 3:19:26 PM
It's kind of ironic. Saddam lied and evaded and was caught out until no one
believed him, even when he was--apparently--telling the truth about the status
of Iraq's WMD. 2747. wonkers2 - 1/7/2004 3:55:29 PM
There's an interesting defense of neocon artistry op-ed in today's Wall
Street Journal by none other than Richard Perle and David Frum.
2748. rdbrewer - 1/7/2004 4:29:05 PM
Thanks for the link, A-5. That is encouraging.
2749. angel-five - 1/7/2004 5:06:56 PM
Say you're an independent businessman with 10k of pocket money to invest, and
your analyst, whom you trust, says, 'Give me the money, I know what needs to be
done with it' so you do. And he dumps it into something tolerable and in one
year you have made 1.2k on it. There is no denying that a 12% return in one year
will beat a lot of investments. If you'd just stuck the money in the bank you
might have made, what, 5%? So you might feel good about yourself. 2750. angel-five - 1/7/2004 5:07:35 PM
I, like most people, like to think of myself as being more fairminded than
partisan, but unlike most politically minded fora participants I can acknowledge
that good has come out of what some of my opponents have done. That is to say in
this instance, although I am horribly opposed to Pax Americana as an unworkable
plan which the American people aren't even willing to support themselves, has
cost us too much, consumed too many of our resources, destroyed our
international goodwill and reputation, weakened the UN and NATO, pinned us down,
corrupted our administration and killed far too many people, it's obvious that
there is a benefit to what we have done. 2751. angel-five - 1/7/2004 5:10:46 PM
The sad thing is that what happened in Afghanistan is what is likely going to
happen in Iraq. We can't rotate forces out of Iraq without a significant callup
of the National Guard or stripping our troops from Europe or SE Asia. We surely
do not want to keep paying hundreds of billions of dollars there. Those people
who got on board the administration plan because of nation building -- the same
people that conservative commentators have dogged about their Iraq criticism
saying that 'I thought you were in favor of nation building and human rights' --
have been taken for a ride, and they should have known, much better, how this
was going to turn out. Some of us were telling them all along.
2752. jexster - 1/7/2004 6:47:24 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Anti-American insurgents fired mortar rounds at a U.S.
military camp Wednesday night, wounding 35 U.S. soldiers, the U.S. command said.
2753. jexster - 1/7/2004 6:49:48 PM
Tar pit - elephant 2754. jexster - 1/7/2004 10:18:50 PM
Aktola OK Not Staying the Course - AP 2755. wonkers2 - 1/8/2004 8:31:07 AM
2756. wonkers2 - 1/8/2004 8:38:52 AM
A report published Wed. in the WP cited a previously undisclosed document
that suggested that Iraq might have destroyed its biological weapons as early as
1991. The report said investigators had otherwise found no evidence to support
American beliefs that Iraq had maintained illicit weapons dating from the
Persian Gulf war of 1991 or that it had advanced programs to build new ones.
2757. jexster - 1/8/2004 9:57:12 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AFP) - All nine people on board died when a US military UH-60
Blackhawk helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing near the restive
Iraqi town of Fallujah, US Brigadier General Mark Kimmit said.
2758. JRoth - 1/8/2004 11:54:17 AM
I had several interesting conversations with active duty personnel over the
Holidays. One I can share was with an engineering officer who told me that the
bases his battalion are constructing are being spec'ed for 10-15 year occupancy.
Guess we're going to stay awhile. Corroborating discussion with a planning type
at the Pentagon; 30-50K troops long term. One idea being floated is to have a
brigade each from several divisions in theater at a time. Rotation would be
staggered so that all the brigades would not be 'fresh' at the same time. Also
mentioned were concerns about the big troop rotation; the units being rotated
out are top tier outfits; the succesor formations may have morale issues coming
in. 2759. vonKreedon - 1/8/2004 12:05:57 PM
JR - Interesting stuff. Are you familian with Lt. Van Steenwyk's blog from Al
Ramadi? Very interesting impressions from a junior infantry officer on the
ground in Iraq.
2760. JRoth - 1/8/2004 12:24:37 PM
VK, 2761. concerned - 1/8/2004 1:32:23 PM
re. 2743 - 2762. wonkers2 - 1/8/2004 2:53:20 PM
Carnegie Foundation Report on Iraq WMD released this morning: 2763. vonKreedon - 1/8/2004 3:13:44 PM
Wonk - [Irony mode]The report is obviously slanted, I mean look at the
subjects they covered. This report by an egregiously liberal organization (it is
after all the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, simply attempts
to reinforce a tautology and should be ignored by all right thinking
people.[/Irony mode]
2764. JRoth - 1/8/2004 4:42:45 PM
Anybody else notice the fortuitous timing of the several news reports on the
lack of WMD progress?
2765. jexster - 1/8/2004 7:32:07 PM
2766. jexster - 1/8/2004 7:33:20 PM
Egregiously liberal organization? 2767. concerned - 1/8/2004 7:34:18 PM
For me, having removed Saddam's boot from the Iraqis' necks will always be
more than enough justification. 2768. jexster - 1/8/2004 7:37:03 PM
Time's up 2769. jexster - 1/8/2004 7:40:07 PM
vK missed ya lately.. 2770. jexster - 1/8/2004 7:43:48 PM
TD 2771. jexster - 1/8/2004 7:45:55 PM
2772. jexster - 1/8/2004 7:47:21 PM
OOOPss 2773. jexster - 1/8/2004 8:02:15 PM
CNN Quick Vote Final Results 2774. jexster - 1/8/2004 8:02:45 PM
Fox 2775. wonkers2 - 1/8/2004 9:19:00 PM
All that proves is that morons watch Fox and intelligent Americans watch CNN.
2776. jexster - 1/8/2004 9:19:16 PM
Iraqis
Are Bitter Over U.S.-Held Prisoners 2777. jexster - 1/8/2004 9:19:45 PM
one jackboot looks the same as the next when you're lookin up
2778. wonkers2 - 1/8/2004 9:21:19 PM
VK, of course any organization that endorses international peace is suspect.
2779. jexster - 1/8/2004 9:52:22 PM
Eddie says they're irrelevant... 2780. rdbrewer - 1/8/2004 9:59:45 PM
Your favorite conservative is gone, Jex. ED hit the road today.
2781. jexster - 1/8/2004 10:01:41 PM
Eddie your case is closed. 2782. jexster - 1/8/2004 10:02:23 PM
Well I guess his case got closed. 2783. rdbrewer - 1/8/2004 10:04:41 PM
He hit the road, not the grave.
2784. jexster - 1/8/2004 10:06:21 PM
I think at a time like this, a little scripture is in order. 2785. jexster - 1/8/2004 10:08:17 PM
Not to worry RD..he'll be back... 2786. rdbrewer - 1/8/2004 10:09:40 PM
Good. I look forward to future cameo appearances.
2787. jexster - 1/8/2004 10:19:39 PM
JR... 2788. jexster - 1/8/2004 11:01:35 PM
WARNING 2789. rdbrewer - 1/9/2004 10:38:48 AM
Clinton
believes Iraq had weapons of mass destruction: Portugal PM 2790. vonKreedon - 1/9/2004 10:58:09 AM
Rd - No, because the PIPA study asks about the perception after the
fall of the Saddam regime. The PIPA study is very limited in what it covers.
2791. rdbrewer - 1/9/2004 11:03:30 AM
No, because the PIPA study asks about the perception after the fall of the
Saddam regime. The PIPA study is very limited in what it covers. 2792. vonKreedon - 1/9/2004 11:24:56 AM
Rd - So a broader, less rigorous and specifically defined study would have
been better? The title of the study is Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq
War, and so that is what is covered.
2793. rdbrewer - 1/9/2004 12:06:04 PM
You're contorting what I said, vk. 2794. rdbrewer - 1/9/2004 12:06:17 PM
(cont.) 2795. vonKreedon - 1/9/2004 12:31:39 PM
Rd - The study controls for partisanship by, for example, breaking out Repub
consumers of Fox and Repub consumers of PBS. 2796. rdbrewer - 1/9/2004 1:03:57 PM
The study controls for partisanship by, for example, breaking out Repub
consumers of Fox and Repub consumers of PBS. 2797. rdbrewer - 1/9/2004 1:04:39 PM
"Then," as it were.
2798. vonKreedon - 1/9/2004 1:17:30 PM
Rd - I don't understand this line of argument. Yes the groups are
self-selecting, both where one chooses to consume news and ones political
affiliation are choices. What I don't understand is how this invalidates the
study, particularly given that the study cross-references political affiliation
with news source. If the results were simply the result of self-selection then
one would expect that the Repubs would score in similar areas regardless of news
source, and the same for Dems, but this is not what the study shows:
2799. angel-five - 1/9/2004 1:32:58 PM
It's just that they don't understand what self selecting means. 2800. vonKreedon - 1/9/2004 1:40:09 PM
A5 - I think that the argument is that those who support the war, and so
would be expected to believe that the justifications have been proved,
self-select Fox as their news source, while those who oppose the war, and so
would be expected to believe that the justifications have not been proved,
self-select PBS/NPR. Rd and Ed then use this claim to attempt to invalidate the
study. But the study controls for this by cross-referencing political
affiliation with news source.
2801. angel-five - 1/9/2004 1:44:59 PM
A5 - I think that the argument is that those who support the war, and so
would be expected to believe that the justifications have been proved,
self-select Fox as their news source, while those who oppose the war, and so
would be expected to believe that the justifications have not been proved,
self-select PBS/NPR. Rd and Ed then use this claim to attempt to invalidate the
study. 2802. angel-five - 1/9/2004 1:51:17 PM
"My god, man, can't you see it? They went to the store on their own and
bought the tacos. How can you compare them to people who do not buy tacos? It's
self selection!" 2803. robertjayb - 1/9/2004 1:57:09 PM
....a handoff from Daily Kos: 2804. robertjayb - 1/9/2004 2:27:56 PM
US gives Saddam enemy POW status... 2805. robertjayb - 1/9/2004 3:01:31 PM
Riverbend says
Iraqi federalism a bad idea...
2806. concerned - 1/9/2004 3:03:14 PM
Re. 2803 - 2807. robertjayb - 1/9/2004 6:31:20 PM
Nuance, eh? 2808. wonkers2 - 1/9/2004 9:43:35 PM
Powell is a weasel, to put it politely.
2809. wonkers2 - 1/9/2004 9:44:06 PM
A bird who very skillfully feathers his nest.
2810. arkymalarky - 1/9/2004 9:47:59 PM
I decided that when I was told it's his son who's head of the FCC. I didn't
know that.
2811. angel-five - 1/9/2004 11:54:59 PM
I don't think Powell is a weasel. 2812. jexster - 1/10/2004 10:21:30 AM
He's a Buffalo Soldier.
2813. jexster - 1/10/2004 10:23:00 AM
Debray Decompostion - Iraq Attacks May Signal Religious Strife
2814. jexster - 1/10/2004 10:23:57 AM
Stolen from Africa 2815. jexster - 1/10/2004 10:44:08 AM
RD... 2816. wonkers2 - 1/10/2004 11:42:30 AM
Powell is known for being very skillful at playing the bureaucracy in
Washington, not for standing on principle. Now he's trying to weasel out of the
lies in his speech to the UN on Iraq. He's been a supporter of affirmative
action in the military but opposed to gay rights in the armed forces. A very
smooth talker. I'm not saying he's always been wrong.
2817. justears - 1/10/2004 1:49:32 PM
Harry Belafonte got in a lot of trouble for calling him a "house negro".
2818. jexster - 1/10/2004 2:11:58 PM
A-5 ...self referencing or self selection is used in every public opinion
survey questio and quite often experimental designs... 2819. jexster - 1/10/2004 2:21:41 PM
The study controls for partisanship by, for example, breaking out Repub
consumers of Fox and Repub consumers of PBS. 2820. jexster - 1/10/2004 2:27:58 PM
I think Eddie is confused...he means self referencing.. 2821. jexster - 1/10/2004 2:37:16 PM
or is he avoiding an impression (20 min/hr).
2822. jexster - 1/10/2004 2:43:52 PM
What impresses me most about the debate is that there is a debate at all!
2823. jexster - 1/10/2004 2:52:47 PM
Yes house negro and porch monkey but Buffalo soldier better captures the
sudden spinal failures. 2824. jexster - 1/10/2004 4:20:22 PM
Who knows what Eddie was talking about. I hate to speak ill of the dead but
Ed left a conceptual train wreck, practically indecipherable. 2825. jexster - 1/10/2004 4:33:07 PM
2826. rdbrewer - 1/10/2004 5:48:30 PM
2827. jexster - 1/10/2004 6:05:08 PM
Well well, he wast right all along! 2828. jexster - 1/10/2004 6:06:58 PM
That would be the Saddam-Reagan Joint venture...traces in 3 doxen mnrtar
rounds... 2829. robertjayb - 1/10/2004 6:16:22 PM
Don't wet yourself, rdbrewer. Icelandic and Danish troops have indeed found
dozens (three) of leaking 15-year-old mortar rounds once loaded with blister
agent. And sure enough, those are chemical weapons. 2830. rdbrewer - 1/10/2004 6:39:54 PM
Oh, I see. It's no longer that there aren't any WMDs in Iraq. Now there are
not enough.
2831. wonkers2 - 1/10/2004 7:07:31 PM
Yeah, it sounds like Bush and Powell underestimated the threat!
2832. concerned - 1/10/2004 8:31:32 PM
rjb - 2833. rdbrewer - 1/10/2004 8:40:08 PM
And most will not be so stupid as to claim that what has been located was
all he had at the time, either. 2834. rdbrewer - 1/10/2004 8:51:47 PM
Wait a minute. Wait just a gosh darned minute. 2835. wonkers2 - 1/10/2004 11:26:48 PM
A few left-over mustard gas shells obviously don't come close to constituting
the iminent threat to the U.S. required by Bush's own ill-conceived preemptive
strike policy. It's not an either-or matter. It's a matter of what weapons did
Iraq have and whether or not they constituted an iminent threat to the United
States.
2836. rdbrewer - 1/10/2004 11:53:28 PM
It only takes one drop to refute the claims you guys were making.
2837. robertjayb - 1/11/2004 12:43:36 AM
Good grief! Mustard gas shells are not weapons of mass destruction. Mustard
gas is a blister agent used to incapacitate ground troops. Really unpleasant and
very useful in trench warfare.
2838. concerned - 1/11/2004 2:43:19 AM
Re. 2837 - 2839. concerned - 1/11/2004 2:44:39 AM
Mustard Gas is generally regarded as a WMD.
2840. jayackroyd - 1/11/2004 3:13:46 AM
RDB 2834 2841. concerned - 1/11/2004 4:13:12 AM
Just to reiterate, and so that there can be no misunderstanding by anybody
with at least a 2 digit IQ, the Bush administration never made claims that
Saddam had nukes. 2842. concerned - 1/11/2004 4:14:34 AM
Plus, I am not sure on what authority, other than wishful thinking, Jay
believes that any given WMD imported from Iraq would have been less deadly than
from elsewhere.
2843. concerned - 1/11/2004 4:31:35 AM
One reasonable definition, offered by the University of Arizona, is that a
WMD is one that will not discriminate between combatants and noncombatants.
2844. concerned - 1/11/2004 4:36:39 AM
the U of A reference gives the following characterization of Chemical WMD's:
2845. concerned - 1/11/2004 5:12:50 AM
Wrt O'Neill's little tantrum about Bush's 'war plans for Iraq', probably
somebody should have explained the meaning of the word 'contingency' to him and
let this former Treasury Secretary know that the US has and has had such war
plans for a number of countries since at least WWII, including the Soviet Union,
China and North Korea, since O'Neill apparently believes the existence of such a
plan is necessarily tantamount to an intention of executing it.
2846. concerned - 1/11/2004 5:17:07 AM
O'Neill contradicts himself when he calls GWB 'disengaged', then claims he
hit the ground running on Iraq and Afghanistan upon assuming office .
2847. jexster - 1/11/2004 8:50:12 AM
If afte reading the book, that is all come up with, I'd pick up a copy
myself. 2848. jexster - 1/11/2004 8:52:16 AM
Debray Decomposition: Tensions Flare in South Iraq; Mosul Kurds
Shelled 2849. jexster - 1/11/2004 8:53:00 AM
Another example of what happens when you elect a liar who is also a
"disengaged" incompetent.
2850. jexster - 1/11/2004 8:53:52 AM
Let's have a 60 Minute Mote Party tonight! 2851. jexster - 1/11/2004 9:13:10 AM
Big
Mess - Protesters Stone British Troops and Iraqi Colonial Guards
2852. jexster - 1/11/2004 9:20:34 AM
And I looked into Pooty Poot's Soul with Through My Simean Eyes and With
My Dead Brain 2853. jexster - 1/11/2004 9:25:23 AM
You Picked a Fine
Time to Leave Me Lucille - Vocal, Kenny Rogers 1997 2854. wonkers2 - 1/11/2004 11:19:45 AM
What about the stuff the U.S. sold or gave to Iraq during the 1980s?
2855. robertjayb - 1/11/2004 11:37:28 AM
2839. concerned - 1/11/2004 1:44:39 AM 2856. wonkers2 - 1/11/2004 11:46:48 AM
Con'ned, Are you saying you feel imminently threatened by a few mustard gas
shells buried in 1989? Give us a break!
2857. jexster - 1/11/2004 2:15:39 PM
Rotted with traces of mustard gas..a little insecticide for the Ayatollah....
2858. jexster - 1/11/2004 2:20:55 PM
Lyin Monkees See, Lyin Monkees Do... 2859. robertjayb - 1/11/2004 2:39:25 PM
Rose petals are scarce this time of year...
2860. jexster - 1/11/2004 3:05:24 PM
TD...Looks like the Talking Poodle needs some training wouldn't you agree?
2861. jexster - 1/11/2004 3:06:58 PM
Go Ayatollah Sistani...but watch out for any trace of insectides labeled "US
AID: Made-in-USA"
2862. robertjayb - 1/11/2004 3:26:50 PM
Professor Nagl's War... 2863. jexster - 1/11/2004 3:34:53 PM
Saddam Hussein - A Friend in Need is a Friend Indeed
2864. wonkers2 - 1/11/2004 7:22:03 PM
When Baker finishes taking care of Iraq's debt he can go to work on the U.S.
debt, a much tougher and important problem!
2865. robertjayb - 1/12/2004 12:26:42 AM
War College report hits "unnecessary war"...(WashPost)
2866. jexster - 1/12/2004 12:52:24 AM
"From the very first instance, it was about Iraq," said O'Neill. "It was all
about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The President saying 'Go
find me a way to do this." One of the documents shown on 60 Minutes was a scheme
on a secret document for dividing Iraq's oil up among several top US oil
companies. O'Neill said he was surprised nobody at National Security Council
meetings ever asked: "Why Saddam?" or "Why now?" "For me," he added, "the notion
of pre-emption, that the US has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to
do, is really a huge leap."
Iraq's Arsenal Was Only on Paper
Since Gulf War, Nonconventional
Weapons Never Got Past the Planning Stage
This is a pretty simple read and
worth the time even if you don't agree with its statements.
I don't agree with the rosy scenario
for future relations, not because there isn't great potential for it - and if
Powell were let loose it would happen rapidly. But because the ideologues
(starting with Cheney) who have largely held sway over the meat of US foreign
plolicy are fixated on pressuring Iran with a hard stance on a number of issues.
If the administration changes, yes, you will rapidly see the US move to
similar relations as that country maintains with most of Western Europe, to the
mutual benefit of both countries.
It's something the Bush administration should also bear
in mind, since it seems prone to the same pattern of denying, lying, and
covering up.
It's something the Bush administration should also bear
in mind, since it seems prone to the same pattern of denying, lying, and
covering up.
And
then you find out that your brother had 10k and your brother, being much better
informed than you, knew that Raytheon was poised to blow straight through the
roof, and put his money on Raytheon and watched it double and then double again
in the same year. You might not be quite so happy about the twelve hundred bucks
you made, you know?
That's how I think the average person should feel
about the foreign policy of our current administration. Going into Iraq will
eventually pay dividends, that is not the question. The question is whether or
not it was a responsible thing to do in the name of protecting Americans. If we
had taken the money we had to spend invading Iraq and placed it against homeland
security and improving intelligence and improving predictive and
computative power and working with our allies and establishing
better controls on the international trade and development of WMD, how much
safer (and less in debt) would we now be? How many fine young Americans bled to
death in Iraq to earn us our 12% interest?
***************************************
It's now on the table that
we're to be taken a little bit more seriously or we might show up in force. And
that clearly has value in international relations with formerly uncooperative
states. The cat is now out of the bag, so the very least we can do while we're
burning Wolfowitz in effigy is point out that his program had at least one good
consequence.
Now what we have to do is ask if that was worth stripping
our nation-building in Afghanistan, for starters. When was the last time any of
you paid any attention to Afghanistan? You know Karzai is sinking in the
quagmire right now, right? What could have been our very best example of what
good can come of US intervention is now something that we don't want to talk
about, at all.
Six mortar rounds exploded about 6:45 p.m. at Logistical Base Seitz
west of Baghdad, a U.S. military spokesman said in a statement. The camp is
located in the so-called Sunni Muslim triangle that is a stronghold of
resistance to the U.S. occupation of Iraq (news - web sites).
investigators have found no support for the two main fears
expressed in London and Washington before the war: that Iraq had a hidden
arsenal of old weapons and built advanced programs for new ones. In public
statements and unauthorized interviews, investigators said they have discovered
no work on former germ-warfare agents such as anthrax bacteria, and no work on a
new designer pathogen -- combining pox virus and snake venom -- that led U.S.
scientists on a highly classified hunt for several months. The investigators
assess that Iraq did not, as charged in London and Washington, resume production
of its most lethal nerve agent, VX, or learn to make it last longer in storage.
And they have found the former nuclear weapons program, described as a "grave
and gathering danger" by President Bush and a "mortal threat" by Vice President
Cheney, in much the same shattered state left by U.N. inspectors in the 1990s.
"The wounded soldiers were given first aid and have been
evacuated from the site for further medical treatment," the statement said. The
Pentagon (news - web sites) added that the soldiers were from the Army's 541st
Maintenance Battalion, based in Fort Riley, Kan., and part of the 3rd Corps
Support Command.
The mortars hit "a living area where they have
their sleeping quarters," the spokesman said.
A Pentagon spokesman
said that some of those wounded returned to duty shortly after the attack, while
others were hospitalized.
Flypaper - fly
crawfish - bush
we're
fucked
That place is going to fall apart like a Bush oil venture
along the road
leading north from Baghdad and into the "Sunni Triangle," the heartland of
Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s support and the center of anti-American
resistance, a sergeant from the 1st Armored Division said he's not interested in
the money because he has been shot at a "few times" and "I don't want to die
here."
According to the Defense Department, 332 soldiers have been
killed by hostile fire since the Iraq war began March 20.
"Every
car, every person are potential weapons. We can't trust anything," said the
sergeant, who has been in Iraq since May and is due to leave in two or three
months. He spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The increased bonus
program is part of an effort to avoid a manpower crunch. It's aimed at soldiers
like Spc. Justin Brown of the 4th Infantry Division. "I don't want to be in the
Army forever and just keep fighting wars," said the 22-year-old from Atoka,
Okla.
Back-to-back wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have stretched
the Army thin. Nearly two-thirds of its active duty brigade-sized units are
deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
T
At the checkpoint outside Baqouba,
the 23-year-old specialist, who refused to give his name saying he feared
retribution from military higher-ups, stubbed out a cigarette on the side of a
Humvee. As he began to speak, he was interrupted by the blast of a Kalashnikov
rifle a few yards up the road. An Iraqi policeman fired the rounds in a mound of
dirt for no apparent reason.
"You see what I have to put up with?" asked
the soldier. With two months left in a 12-month tour, "there's not enough money
in the world to make me stay a month longer."
The report also documented a pattern of deceit that was found in every
field of special weaponry. It said that according to Iraqi designers and foreign
investigators, program managers exaggerated the results they could achieve, or
even promised results they knew they could not accomplish--all in an effort to
appease Saddam Hussein. In some cases, though, they simply did it to advance
their careers, the report said, or preserve jobs or even conduct intritues
against their rivals.
Senior intelligence officials acknowledged in
recent deays that the weapons hunters still had not found weapons or active
programs, but in interviews, they said the search must continue to ensure that
no hidden Iraqi weapons surfaced in a future attack. (What future attack?)
(From NYT article linked above.)
"There were no survivors," Kimmit, the coalition's deputy
director of operations, told reporters.
Other news: The first classes of newly trained Arabic speakers are
coming out of the military and intelligence schools. Due to time constraints
training emphasized aural and written skills at expense of conversation skills.
Another issue is concentration skills; seems our post-literate generation has
difficulty with lengthy written documents.
Interesting link. Has the ring of authenticity. One point was
very relevant: He said the troops are finally getting acculturated and are
making fewer mistakes in dealing with the locals. They are also getting more
battle savvy. All that is to be expected, but it looks like we are going to do
the same thing as in Vietnam; rotate the troops out just as they get efficient.
Incidentally, I'm reading 'Whirlwind' by James Clavell
right now - a semi - fictional novel set in Iran at about the time Jimmuh Cahtuh
godfathered Islamic Fundamentalism there. It's bemusing to read about the
Marxist and Islamic elements murdering hundreds of thousands while essentially
destroying centuries of Iranian societal progress in mere months.
1.
WMD--no immediate threat
2. Inspections were working
3.
Intelligence failed
4. War was not the best or only option
And its one two three what are we fightin for...
WMD Search Teams Pull Out
Or egregiously ignorant post?
Aren't you glad to know that, jexster?
Tendentious horseshit vK.
Robert Kagan
specializes in U.S. leadership and foreign policy. Currently based in Brussels,
he writes extensively on U.S. strategy and diplomacy in the post–Cold War era,
U.S. domestic politics and foreign policy, U.S. relations with Europe, U.S.
policy toward China, and military strategy and the defense budget. He also
writes on U.S. diplomatic history and the historical traditions that shape U.S.
foreign policy today. He is cofounder, with William Kristol, of the Project for
a New American Century. Kagan is also a contributing editor to the Weekly
Standard and the New Republic and a monthly columnist for the Washington Post.
Prior to joining the Carnegie Endowment, he worked in the Department of
State as a deputy for policy in the Bureau of Inter-American Affairs and was a
member of the policy planning staff as principal speechwriter to the secretary
of state.
Education: B.A., Yale University; M.P.P., John F. Kennedy
School of Government, Harvard University
Selected Publications: Present
Dangers: Crisis and Opportunity in American Foreign and Defense Policy, edited
with William Kristol (Encounter Books, 2000); A Twilight Struggle:
American Power and Nicaragua, 1977–1990 (Free Press, 1996)
Tell me has your brain been marinating in some
primordial goo or have you been eating Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathic
sweetmeats during your absence?
Now you tell us.
How convenient!
I can't wait for
tommorow's load of crap.
Why you give me a reason to get up every
morning.
Robert
Kagan
Senior Associate 
Sorry vk...
Its that macular degeneration actin up.
Do you believe the Bush
administration misrepresented the threat from Iraq to justify a war?
Yes
89%
No 11%
Yes 13
No 87
Has a familiar ring....
ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (news - web sites) — Visitors hold scraps of paper
bearing identification numbers as they pass coils of razor wire and walk across
a muddy field toward the prison, where sons, husbands, cousins and other
suspected insurgents have been held for months by U.S. forces.
Fathers fidget with prayer beads and curse the soldiers
who snatched their boys. Mothers pull their abayas tight against the wind,
checking lists of names posted on plywood. Imams come with Korans. Those who can
afford to, bring lawyers. Brothers carry food and plastic bags of clothing and
wait amid the roar of Humvees.
Iraqis resent many things about the
U.S. occupation, but the detention of roughly 13,000 prisoners — most of whom
have not been formally charged — has triggered intense disgust. The U.S.
contends that the detainees have links to the Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)
loyalists and insurgents attacking coalition forces. Families say many prisoners
are innocent and were unjustly handcuffed, blindfolded and led from their
villages in humiliation.
I say Eddie is irrelevant
Lies
Have Consequences
WMD IN IRAQ
Evidence and Implications
Summary of New Carnegie Report
WMD in IRAQ:
Evidence and Implications, a new study from the Carnegie Endowment for
International Peace, details what the U.S. and international intelligence
communities understood about Iraq's weapons programs before the war and outlines
policy reforms to improve threat assessments, deter transfer of WMD to
terrorists, strengthen the UN weapons inspection process, and avoid
politicization of the intelligence process.
The report distills a
massive amount of data into side-by-side comparisons of pre-war intelligence,
the official presentation of that intelligence, and what is now known about
Iraq's programs.
The authors of the report are: Jessica T. Mathews,
president; George Perkovich, vice president for studies, and Joseph Cirincione,
senior associate and non-proliferation project director of the Carnegie
Endowment for International Peace.
SUMMARY OF RECOMMENDATIONS
1.
Changes to U.S. Policy
· Revise the National Security Strategy to eliminate
a U.S. policy of unilateral preventive war, i.e., preemptive war in absence of
imminent threat....
Full
Report
SUMMARY OF KEY FINDINGS
2309 The strict
conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous
consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous
conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
RIP
The Holy
Gospel According to John
31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus
said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will
know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
This has been going on since about 1998
or so
He can't resist me.
I think the timing was inevitable or made so by Kay's decision
that he wasn't going to serve as a prop for Bush any longer.
Remember
that Bush rejected calls to include UNMOVIC staff on Kay's team. He always
intended to use Kay for his propaganda value as much as anything. As long as kay
played along, Bush could claim as he and others did throughout, that the crafty
Saddam had buried his goodies in a crawfish hole. 
The Carnegie Indictment is 111 pages long...
Former
US president Bill Clinton said in October during a visit to Portugal that he was
convinced Iraq had weapons of mass destruction up until the fall of Saddam
Hussein, Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Manuel Durao Barroso said.
"When
Clinton was here recently he told me he was absolutely convinced, given his
years in the White House and the access to privileged information which he had,
that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction until the end of the Saddam
regime," he said in an interview with Portuguese cable news channel SIC
Noticias.
I guess Clinton would have scored "very misinformed" on
the PIPA study recently clobbered in American Politics.
The PIPA study does NOT show the following:
The
only thing that the study shows is that depending on where one consumes ones
news has an impact on how correctly one is informed regarding three facts about
Saddam. Now one can extrapolate from this base, but I do not believe that is
what the study is doing.
And
that, vk, is how they managed to target a specific result.
We know an Iraqi officer met with
an Al-Queda representative in Prague, for example. This would be regarded by
many as a clear link. The survey, however, is restricted to a value judgment
about the quality of the link, not whether there was a link. How clear was this
clear link? We might answer the question differently. The survey authors regard
this as an "unclear" link. The fact that Bush haters will appear answer to
answer "correctly" that the link was unclear, in the case of many of them, has
nothing to do with their level of knowlege about the facts of the war. So,
restricting the question in such a fashion picks up the "errors" of Bush
supporters more often and, thereby, renders the survey unreliable. It also
reveals how the potential biases of the survey writers can meld into the results
of the poll.
Another example: We know Iraq had WMD. We saw the UNSCOM
video of vials of anthrax, for example. A straight forward question would have
inquired whether Iraq had WMDs. But the question on the suvery concerns
additional WMDs. Bush supporters are naturally going to miss this
question at a higher rate than Bush haters in part because Bush haters who don't
know the answer will naturally be inclined to answer that there were no WMD's,
while Bush supporters who don't know the answer will guess that there were.
Another example of how restricting the survey questions leads
to particular result: Instead of asking whether the majority of Iraqis support
the efforts of the U.S. and allies, it asks whether world opinion supports the
effort. First, there hasn't been a world-wide poll published on the nightly
news. More importantly, obviously war haters are going to appear to get this
"right" regardless of whether they are aware of such polling data. Their guesses
are going to be in one direction only. War supporters who don't know the answer
are going to guess the other way, the "wrong" way. If the survery had asked
about Iraqi support for the war, an opposite result would have been
achieved. It would have appeared that PBS watching correlates with being
"misinformed" about war facts.
Overall consumers of Fox
were misinformed 80% of the time; consumers of PBS were misinformed 23% of the
time. Among Repubs, those who consumed Fox 54% were misinformed and those who
consumed PBS 32% were misinformed. This indicates that the news source was a
significant factor in forming misperceptions about the three facts in question.
Now let me give you your quals:
The first of the three questions
(has the US found clear evidence of strong links...) is not as solid as the
second and third, requiring a judgement on the clarity of evidence and strength
of links. You are also correct that the study would have been better if they had
also asked a question about a pre-war justification that has since been found to
be true, but I can't think of one as unassailably true as two of the three they
used.
I think this is where
Dantes criticism kicks in, vk, that these groups are self selecting:
Suppose most people watch whichever news show comes on after or
before their favorite TV show. Suppose network A shows "Al Bundy's Favorite Fart
Jokes--Enacted" and network B shows "History for Lovers of the Obscure and
Arcane."
Regardless of how relatively accurate network A's news show
versus network B's news show, it's a good bet that viewers of network A are
going to be a different demographic than the demographic for network B.
The better route would have been to force 500 to watch PBS and 500 to
watch Fox, as ED suggested, and them quiz them about their knowlege of war
facts.
The Effect of Demographic Variations in Audience
Variations in misperceptions according to news source cannot simply be
explained as a result of differences in the characteristics of each audience.
... controlling for these demographic differences by examining the variations in
misperception within demographic groups reveals persisting variations in the
level of misperceptions according to news source, consisten with the analysis
above.
Looking just at Republicans, the average rate for the three key
misperceptions was 43%. For Republican Fox viewers, however, the average rate
was 54% while for Republicans who get their news from PBS-NPR the averae rate is
32%. This same pattern obtains with Democrats and independents.
By
the criterion being used -- they checked a box on an answer sheet to indicate
their primary source of news -- they are shouting 'Self selection!' because once
they heard that was bad for accurate data.
Self selection is when all
your sample are volunteers, like when you mail out a survey sheet with a SASE.
What you get back is self-selected, they're choosing to get into it with you.
Traditionally these aren't representative people, they're more activist, and you
can't poll them and then say they're representative of America.
However
what we're talking about when someone checks a preference box isn't self
selection. It's answering a question. By what they're going on about, every
answer in every poll is self-selection at work. 'Sorry, we can't say that this
70% of Americans like tacos is accurate.' 'Why?' 'Because it was self
selective.' 'What?' 'Yes.' 'How?' 'Well, we asked them and they answered that
they like tacos, it's self selection, they're selecting themselves as taco
lovers, self selection is bad.' 'What?'
That's precisely what it's like,
and I'm best pleased to have another example at hand to demonstrate that neither
of these guys knows much about polling.
If so, that's not just a misunderstanding of what self
selection means, it's completely wrong and worthy of mockery. Self selection
doesn't mean 'making one's own choices' either. That's called free will.
Once again, self selection means that the respondent
went out of their way to answer the polling questions.
Web polls are
self selecting -- if someone is browsing www.tacosaregood.com and there's a poll
'Do you like tacos?' then you have self selection, twice over. First off your
entire pool of possible subjects consists of all those who would go to
tacosaregood.com in the first place, which would be a group already interested
in tacos and prone to like them, in the aggregate. Then you have the survey and
the people responding to it are all volunteers. They tend to have stronger
opinions than average. This is why most web poll data you see is labeled
'unscientific' etc.
The Nielsen people don't call you in the middle of
Law & Order to find out what you're watching because they like bothering
strangers. They cold call people because that's the method which gives them the
most representative base for their polling.
Fri Jan 9th, 2004 at 17:00:06 GMT
NOW
"I have not seen smoking-gun, concrete evidence about
the connection" between Iraq and al Qaida.
- Secretary of State Colin
Powell, 1/9/04
THEN
"I want to bring to your attention
today [to] the potentially much more sinister nexus between Iraq and the
al-Qaida terrorist network...al-Qaida affiliates based in Baghdad now coordinate
the movement of people, money and supplies into and throughout Iraq for Saddam's
network, and they have now been operating freely in [Baghdad]."
-
Secretary of State Colin Powell, 2/5/03
(Courtest of the Center for
American Progress.)
BBC---The United States
has formally declared the ousted Iraqi leader, Saddam Hussein, an "enemy
prisoner of war".
A Pentagon spokesman said Saddam was given the status as
he was the leader of the "old regime's military forces".
The spokesman,
Major Michael Shavers, said Saddam, captured by US troops in December, was
entitled to all the rights under the Geneva Convention.
But it did not
change the conditions under which he was being held, the spokesman added.
'Curious' Robert discovers nuance.
And here I was thinking contemptible flimflammery and
possibly-treasonous misfeasance.
In any case. for me it is sad to see
the understandably-overrated career of General Powell winding down in such
pathetic fashion. But he must dance with who brung him.
He's caught in a conflict between
his own experience (this is the guy who came up with the Powell Doctrine and
understands the need for coalition building) and the fact that the man who gives
him orders is Dubya Bush. It's the job of the Secretary of State to work for the
President, it's the job of Colin Powell the man to stand up for what he believes
is right. I don't think you can really call him a weasel for what he's done,
although it's certainly worthy of criticism.
Brought to America
Fightin on arrival
Fightin for survival
Actually running a panel experiment is not a very good idea.
The results would be very unreliable. Yhe test itself virtually impossible to
design, implement, and finance.
You'd get "test effect" in spades. The
respondents knowing that they were being tested on content recall would pay
special, non-normal attention.
The PIPRA research was quite good for
reasons I will leave to the Slow Thread.
Eddie just learned a
new term and was throwing it about without more...
Examples..
1 What is your age? (even women!)
2. What is your income
3. DO
you think GWB is a Moron?
4. How many football games did you watch on New
Year's eve. start to finish?
5. The French are foul aren't they?
6
Because God annointed Bush to lead this nation all Bush bashing is really
God-hatred?
7. Eddie Dantes is - grossly obese; moderately chubby; a rail; a
fuckin hunk of junk
8. RD has not read the PIPA study yet {y/N)
Not even close.
They first count misperceptions. They run separate and composite
cross-tabs to control for party registration; plan to vote for Bush or democrat;
support for the war and 7 different media sources.
The results all move
in same direction....
How do you
really know that the respondent watches all seven hours of NewsHour or is he
just tryin to make an impression?
Does R really only watch 20 minutes of
FoxNews a month or is he avoid a making an impression (20 min/hr).
I thought it was a pretty sound study....could have used more questions
techniques..Rockefeller Grant Money...and I told a number of friends....when I
summarized the Fox finding...the reaction was identical
"So they wasted
money to tell us that!"
Fox is the closest thing to Tass we've seen
....thus far
Powell fights policies he loathes until told to
be a good soldier...fightin for survival...
He is far closer in outlook
to Albright, Kissinger, Shultz. Baker, Lugar, Nunn, Dean, Clark, Scowcroft,
Poppy, Hagel, Clintons than to Bush's neocon crowd. Defense has usurped his
department's lead on all major issues and for all this, he soldiers on...
Rummy/Cheney have emasculated the guy. But he
Said he was a
Buffalo Soldier
Win the war for America
Buffalo Soldier, Dreadlock Rasta
Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival
Driven from the mainland
To the heart of the caribbean
rd: In
polling you don't want your respondents to self-select because it skews the
results. For example, if you ask questions about sex and mail out the survey to
everyone in the phone book: 1) you'll get information only about people who have
listed phone numbers; 2) since returning the survey is voluntary, you'll receive
info only from those willing to talk about their sex lives. This crowd may not
be representative of the entire population.
Above I'm not using the term
precisely in this manner but rather saying that those who watch Fox have
pre-selected themselves for the network and thus won't produce an accurate
result of what effect watching Fox has. In a rigorous study that wanted to
measure the effect of Fox News on an audience, they'd choose say, 1,000 people
at random and make 500 of them watch Fox and 500 of them watch ABC.
Then they'd quiz the two groups on the week's past events to see
who'd learned more.
These are sample design problems in a
non-random sample, a voluntary sample - A-=5's Web poll. This crowd is
represenetative of this crowd, those who actually responded. The Census uses
this method which is why prohablity sampling would produce a more accurate
count.
The PIPA poll was a probability sample, about 700 respondents. I
am not sure whether they substitute or not but for all intents and purposes you
can be 95% confident that the results are within 3.7% of the true population
proportion. The non-response problem is generally insignificant and/or is
handled by replenishing the sample. In this case, because Knowledge Networks
uses an interview panel that they use several times a year, the results are even
more reliable than the usual telephone opinion poll.
As for
"self-referencing" that is exactly what you want! You certainly do not want to
measure the impact of CBS exposure on a Tom Brokaw audience that never watches
Rather.
How absurd should I go to make the obvious point more so?
Republicans/Hillary, Bill? Democrats whether Bush is a menace? The study
examined the impact of media (7 of em) on perceptions about key issues in the
Iraq war Not French media's impact on US perceptions, not whether Bush
supporters are more or less intelligent than other folks.
Eddie missed
the point of the study entirely.
Eddie was lost. Now he is gone.
As I tried to explain in Slow, Eddie's experimental design is
unworkable. The simple cross tabs that PiPA used is far more likely to yield
generalizable results.
And you probably bought one of
his oil wells.
Let's see hwat the Danes found...
'Chemical
weapons' found in Iraq
Factfile: Blister agents
Danish troops
have found dozens of mortar shells in southern Iraq which could contain chemical
weapons according to initial tests.
The 36 120mm mortar rounds appeared to
have been buried for at least 10 years, the army said.
All showed traces
of blister gases, the army said, a group of chemical compounds which include
mustard gas.
US officials confirmed the apparent find and said the
weapons were probably left over from the 1980-88 war on Iran.
Next thing you know mushrooms clouds of em
I must
admit even an old truth is better than a new lie.
Thirty-six decaying
mustard gas shells.
Well, no wonder the bushies took the nation to war.
I do like the idea of Danes and Icelanders scouring the desert.
The point is that never again can a Lefty honestly say and
believe that there Saddam had no WMD before he was deposed. And most will not be
so stupid as to claim that what has been located was all he had at the time,
either.
Don't count on it, Con'd.
Wasn't it RJB ... no
it was Jay who vehemenently denied the existence of WMDs, any WMDs. It was Jay
who was so very in-your-face cocksure. It might be worth looking back in the
thread for the juiciest quotes.
Jay, this story looks like it's going to
pan out. How do you like your crow? Baked, broiled, or fried?
rjb -
Mustard Gas is a Chemical Weapon banned
since 1925 by the Geneva Convention.
Pull the quotes. What I consistently said was "Time will
tell" wrt to nonnuke wmd.
I did say that the claims for nukes, the
claims for al qaeda links and the claims for threats to the US were
transparently false. I said that in February, and stand by those claims. The
Secretary of State and the President have agreed with me on the second. The UN
agreed with me, prewar on the first. And the third, at this point, pretty
clearly reflects facts on the ground.
On the latest claims on non-nuke
wmd issues, time will tell.
To tell the truth, I'm not quite sure who Jay is
referring to, in this instance. He seems to have some intention of
appearing to blame the Bush Administration for this without actually
coming out with the lie.
Contrary to Jay's assertion, it has been shown
beyond any reasonable doubt that Saddam's government did indeed have links to Al
Qaeda.
This definition is arrived at, presumably because the area over which a
WMD exerts its effects tends to be larger and less predictable and is not as
exactly, if at all, controllable in its results as compared to a bomb or a
bullet.
Chemical Weapons
Definition:
"Extremely lethal
man-made poisons that can be disseminated as gasses, liquids, or aerosols"
How they kill - 4 types
o Choking - damage lung tissue: chlorine
gas
o Blood Agents - cut off flow of oxygen: hydrogen cyanide
o
Vesicants - burn and blister soft tissue: mustard gas
o Nerve Agents -
disable nervous system: sarin, VX
2 broad categories:
o
Persistent - doesn't break down easily in the environment, can last for years
o Non-Persistent - break down quickly into non-lethal components
As I read the teaser quote, disengaged does not refer to the
Regime but to its leader. That vacamt stare, the empty ape like eyes, and
beyond, the Void of a brain that died.
That's disengaged.
O'Neill's point is precisely what I have long maintained. The Moron
couldn't find his way to the bathroon without a roadmap and cannot control
decision making processes where the Script is silent nor can he sucessfully
change the Script no matter desperate things get, not until, that is, the Austin
Fun Bunch alarms go off.
Then we get a slogan and a lie
Predictable as brain death
AMARA, Iraq (Reuters) - Scores of angry protesters gathered
Sunday in Amara in southern Iraq (news - web sites), demanding compensation for
at least five Iraqis killed when police and British troops opened fire to quell
a violent demonstration.
In the nearby city of Basra, an
Iraqi-born U.S. citizen working for the civilian administration in southern Iraq
was found shot dead, a spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA)
said.
"An Iraqi-born American citizen working with CPA South was
found shot dead in Basra Saturday," spokesman Dominic d'Angelo said. "His body
was found together with that of another man, who was not associated with CPA
South."
There were no further details on the killings. Guerrillas
fighting the U.S.-led occupation in Iraq have often targeted Iraqis cooperating
with the civilian administration.
Mainly Shi'ite southern Iraq has
been far more peaceful than the restive Sunni Muslim areas around Baghdad, where
most of the resistance to the occupation has been concentrated.
But
tension flared Saturday in Amara, 365 km (230 miles) southeast of Baghdad, when
a demonstration over unemployment turned violent.
Big audience...big rating
We're looking now I greatly fear at the beginnings of a huge meltdown in
Iraq.
After all, there was a reason for Saddam and a reason we
encouraged him as he "gassed his own people". I remember the debate well.
Do you?
Big Whoop. Russia sold night vision goggles in
violation of UN resolutions so that Iraq could defend itself against a war of
aggression launched in violation of the UN Charter.
In pari delicto we
leave Pooty Poot and Dead Brain Walkin..
WASHINGTON — U.S. officials
have found evidence corroborating the Bush administration's allegations that
Russian companies sold Saddam Hussein high-tech military equipment that
threatened U.S. forces during the invasion of Iraq last March, a senior State
Department official said Friday.
The United States has found proof that
Russian firms exported night-vision goggles and radar-jamming equipment to Iraq,
the official said. The evidence includes the equipment itself and proof that it
was used during the war, said the official.
Such
exports would violate the terms of United Nations sanctions against Baghdad.
"We have corroborated some of that evidence," the official told a group
of reporters.
While insisting that the matter was "now in the past," he
said that the Bush administration "never received entirely satisfactory
explanations" to its charges, and acknowledged that the issue "is still a
sensitive one in the relationship."
Mustard Gas is generally
regarded as a WMD.
..........................
Ever faithful
to standard bushie practice, concerned just makes shit up.
Speaking of gas...you ever try Beano TD?
A Lie Is Born:
Bush Planned Invasion of Iraq from Day 1
Bush "began laying plans for an invasion of Iraq, including the use of
American troops, within days of Bush's inauguration in January of 2001 - not
eight months later after the 9/11 attacks as has been previously reported.
That's what former Treasury Sec. Paul O'Neill says... on 60 Minutes, Sunday,
Jan. 11 at 7 p.m. ET/PT. In the first three months of 2001, the administration
was looking at military options for removing Saddam Hussein from power and
planning for the aftermath of Saddam's downfall - including post-war
contingencies like peacekeeping troops, war crimes tribunals and the future of
Iraq's oil. 'There are memos,' Suskind tells Stahl, 'One of them marked 'secret'
says 'Plan for Post-Saddam Iraq.'' A Pentagon document, says Suskind, titled
'Foreign Suitors For Iraqi Oilfield Contracts,' outlines areas of oil
exploration. 'It talks about contractors around the world from...30, 40
countries and which ones have what intentions on oil in Iraq,' Suskind says."
Now why do you suppose Bush is stonewalling Congressional investigations
of Iraq Intel???
Well hell that's a tough one ain't it.
AMARAH, Iraq (AP) - Impatience with Iraq's occupying forces boiled
over Sunday as unemployed Iraqis pelted British troops with stones and a top
Shiite Muslim cleric demanded the country's next parliament be elected - not
chosen by local caucuses, as foreseen by the Americans.
BAGHDAD (AFP) - British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites)
suggested that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s alleged weapons of mass
destruction may never be found in Iraq as unrest flared again in the
British-run southern sector of the country.
US President George W. Bush
(news - web sites)'s justification for the war on Iraq was also expected to come
under the spotlight with revelations he was intent on ousting Saddam long before
the September 11 attacks on the United States.
Guess he watched the
BBC excloo those rusted mortar rounds
Peter Maass has a lengthy
encouraging/discouraging article in the NYTimes Magazine Its main player is
Major John Nagl, a West Pointer, Rhodes Scholar, Ph. D counterinsurgency expert,
and third in command of a tank battalion. The encouraging part is that the U.S.
does have thoughtful people on the ground. The discouraging part is that it may
not make any difference.
Nagl is a gifted officer with the common
sense not to confuse hopes with facts. He says he believes he is winning his
war, and his grasp of the present, as well as of the past and the future, is as
sharp as anyone's. He knows, though, that the war will be messy and slow, as
T.E. Lawrence warned, and he knows enough about wars to realize that the outcome
is not assured. That is the nature of guerrilla wars, especially -- they are
chaotic and confused and only fools predict their results.
Yet if
predicting the future is a hopeless endeavor, learning from the past is not. The
counterinsurgency books that Nagl studied do impart an important lesson. The
goal the United States hopes to reach in Iraq -- a successful counterinsurgency
that does not drag on for years and does not involve a large amount of killing
-- has never been achieved by any army.
WASHINGTON - Now assigned the task of reducing Iraq (news - web sites)'s
debt, presidential envoy James A. Baker III once gave crucial support for
continuing a billion-dollar loan program to Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s
government that accounts for most of the money Iraq still owes the United
States.
As secretary of state in 1989, Baker urged the Agriculture
Department to offer $1 billion in loan guarantees for Iraq to buy U.S. farm
products after Iraq said it would reject a smaller deal.
"Documents
indicate he intervened personally to make sure that Iraq continued to receive
high levels of funding," said Joyce Battle, Middle East analyst for the National
Security Archives, a foreign policy research center with a vast collection of
declassified documents from the era.
A scathing new report published by the Army War College broadly
criticizes the Bush administration's handling of the war on terrorism, accusing
it of taking a detour into an "unnecessary" war in Iraq and pursuing an
"unrealistic" quest against terrorism that may lead to U.S. wars with states
that pose no serious threat.
The report, by visiting professor Jeffrey
Record, who is on the faculty of the Air War College at Maxwell Air Force Base
in Alabama, warns that as a result of those mistakes, the Army is "near the
breaking point."
.............................
Record's core
criticism is that the administration is biting off more than it can chew. He
likens the scale of U.S. ambitions in the war on terrorism to Adolf Hitler's
overreach in World War II. "A cardinal rule of strategy is to keep your enemies
to a manageable number," he writes. "The Germans were defeated in two world wars
. . . because their strategic ends outran their available means."
He
also scoffs at the administration's policy, laid out by Bush in a November
speech, of seeking to transform and democratize the Middle East. "The potential
policy payoff of a democratic and prosperous Middle East, if there is one,
almost certainly lies in the very distant future," he writes. "The basis on
which this democratic domino theory rests has never been explicated."
O'Neill revealed Bush to be a pathetically
weak man unable to ask an intelligent question or make a single independent
decision.
I believe that there is a market for the truth in
America
How many units of truth do ya think I should put
Eddie D. down for?
And how about my CU Law Alum PT10909 (MIA, RIP), what
he good for?
Al D...at least the price of a round at Poipu surely.
2867. jexster - 1/12/2004 7:05:01 AM
A Public Service Message for Fox Viewers: Powell admits no al Qaeda-Saddam
link
Colin Powell has finally admitted that he had no proof of a
connection between Saddam and al Qaeda.
The New York Times reports,
"'I have not seen smoking-gun, concrete evidence about the connection,' Mr.
Powell said, in response to a question at a news conference. 'But I think the
possibility of such connections did exist, and it was prudent to consider them
at the time that we did.'"
Certainly. But how "prudent" was he to assert
in front of the UN last February that there was a "sinister nexus "between Iraq
and the Al Qaeda terrorist network, a nexus that combines classic terrorist
organizations and modern methods of murder."
Trodding through San
Juan
In the arms of America
Trodding through Jamaica, a Buffalo Soldier
Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival
Buffalo Soldier, Dreadlock
Rasta
It is now safe for you to watch Bill O'Reilly....
2868. jexster - 1/12/2004 7:15:21 AM
The president decided he had to act because he believed that whatever
the size of the stockpile, whatever one might think about it, he believed that
the region was in danger, America was in danger/b> and he would act. And he
did act.
The deaf, the blind, the mendacious, the brain dead, ....
2869. jexster - 1/12/2004 7:16:01 AM
tragic
2870. jexster - 1/12/2004 12:20:17 PM
Very tragic
US soldier dies in bombing, troops kill seven Iraqis stealing
fuel
I hope he didn't watch Paul O'Neiil, principal member Bush
NSC, before he expired.
And as for the Iraqis, it must be hard on their
families and on big bleeding hearted Bushie humantarians
2871. jexster - 1/12/2004 2:19:24 PM
Neo-Colonialism
- The Rape of Iraq
Iraqis Blast US Sponsored Trade Fair - Financial
Times
A 250-strong delegation from the American-Iraqi Chamber
of Commerce in Baghdad expressed anger at having to beat a path to Jordan to
establish contacts with US-led administration ruling Iraq.
"It takes two
months to see the Americans at the palace," said Adil al-Rawi, a Baghdad
merchant, referring to the CPA headquarters in one of Saddam Hussein's former
palaces in the Iraqi capital.Complaining he had failed to win any contracts
under US-led rule, Mr Rawi said: "There's no information in Iraq."
The
Iraqi delegates voiced their anger on the sidelines of the conference during a
meeting with retired US admiral David Nash, the Baghdad-based director of the
Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction Organisation, who is responsible for
disbursing more than $18bn (?15bn, £10bn) of US funding for reconstruction.
They denounced the conference organisers for failing to provide Arabic
translators and for not including an Iraqi on the panel.
"They are
speaking as if Iraqis are not there," said Ahmed al-Haider of Al Belouj company.
"Iraqis must have a role."
Well boo-hoo. What did ya expect,
liberation?
Suckers
2872. Al D - 1/12/2004 2:23:45 PM
http://slate.msn.com/id/2093620/entry/2093641/=#ContinueArticle
Slate has a discussion which will go on all week among liberals who
supported the war. I found the link on TPW; perhaps, jexster, you would be so
kind as to create a link here.
That is the nature of guerrilla wars, especially -- they are chaotic
and confused and only fools predict their results.
I may have it
wrong, but it seems to me several on the Mote predict the result as a negative
result. Or is that just their wishful thinking?
2873. jexster - 1/12/2004 2:41:39 PM
Sure Al..but I am not functioning too well today (a binge drinking wake last
night) what is TPW???
Should I just link the URL??? I do that and if
that's not what you want...do something else
As for guerilla wars,
speaking only for myself, I have predicted nothing.
I have linked and
supported views of several experts including the CIA ops chief for the
Afghan/Russian conflict to the effect that no occupying army in the 20th century
has resisted a nationalist insurgency successfully; have said that the current
one in Iraq, though extremely low level has already partially succeed (the rush
for the exits take over scuttles democracy in June I think), and I have
entertained as plausible views of Regis Debray that the longer the US stays the
more likely a total disintegration of the country and rise of an virulent
fundamentalist regime in one or more of its components. I had never thought of
that before but began to. What you see depends on what you look for and I do
love the counterinitutive.
2874. jexster - 1/12/2004 2:43:33 PM
2875. jexster - 1/12/2004 2:56:07 PM
Correction...it occured to me that I forgot to mention one guy...
Defense and the National Interest, Center for Cultural Conservatism,
Military Affairs expert William Lind --
As I said in an earlier
column, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are already lost. Nothing the United
States can do can yield an American victory in either placeAs I said in an
earlier column, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are already lost. Nothing the
United States can do can yield an American victory in either place.
In
all probability, both wars were lost before the first bomb was dropped or the
first shot fired. They were lost because, in an era when the state is in
decline, our wares on the Afghan and Iraqi states were doomed to be too
successful. We fought to destroy two regimes, but what we ended up doing was
destroying two states. Neither in Afghanistan nor in Iraq are we able to
recreate the state, which means that Fourth Generation, non-state forces will
come to dominate both places. And neither we nor any other state knows how to
defeat Fourth Generation enemies.
To the degree America had a chance of
real victory in either war, we lost that chance through early mistakes...
In Iraq, the two fatal early errors were outlawing the Baath Party and
disbanding the Iraqi army. Washington is now making noises about reversing both
of those early decisions, but it is simply too late. As von Moltke said, a
mistake in initial dispositions can seldom be put right.
The Politics Of War
Not a prediction I suppose more a time now factual statement and
conclusion.
2876. jexster - 1/12/2004 2:56:17 PM
By standards that Bush set, I suppose that if you asked Ayatollah Sistani
that question he'd agree with Lind that the war is lost already. This being so
given his recent statement that when the Cheney Regime (I do not speak ill of
the Brain Dead) installs its frankenstein creation this summer, that regime will
be neither democratic nor legitimate.
That sounds like a big 0 in the
win column to me.
2877. Wombat - 1/12/2004 4:09:09 PM
As I understand it, UN inspectors found a few examples of elderly--and
unusable--chemical munitions during their inspections before the war that the
Iraqis had failed to destroy--or lost track of. Sounds like this find may be
similar, and the military is correct to downplay it.
Let's remember the
admistration's claims: active WMD programs, deployable in 45 minutes, and an
imminent threat to the United States. This find does nothing to contradict the
paucity of evidence to support these claims.
2878. jexster - 1/12/2004 4:23:45 PM
In the same vein as Al opened...bloody mess...
Anthony Cordesman et
al Center for Strategic and International Suties...
Iraq Policy Critique: Trip Reports
Iraq: Too
Uncertain to Call
Current Military Situation in Iraq
Over the
course of his November 1-12 visit, Anthony Cordesman traveled to Baghdad, Babel,
Tikrit, and Kirkuk, among other areas, meeting with combat commanders and staff
in high-threat areas. One report, “Iraq: Too Uncertain to Call,” focuses on the
strengths and weaknesses of the approaches taken by the Bush administration, the
Coalition Provisional Authority and the Iraq Governing Council. The other report
analyzes current combat activity and unit-by-unit developments. Cordesman
traveled at the invitation of the U.S. government.
2879. wonkers2 - 1/12/2004 4:25:03 PM
And of course there was Riceroni's reference to "mushroom clouds." And Bush's breathless "enriched uranium from Africa." And Cheney's repeated linking of Hussein with 9-11. They are the crookedest administration since Harding.
2880. jexster - 1/12/2004 4:57:05 PM
Paul O'Neill exposes Bush mis-leadership
Delivering the single-most
damaging indictment of the president, his former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill
says the administration was drawing up plans to attack and occupy Iraq the
moment it took office. He told "60 Minutes," "From the very beginning, there was
a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go."
Let's past the crap and to the chase"
1. From Day 1 of the
Cheney Regime there was no genuine debate about using the US military and our
resources to invade Iraq.
2. From Day 1 of the Cheney Regime, WMD was a
topic on the agedn of the NSC yet at no time did the authorities responsible for
the security of this country have any substantial evidence that such a program
esisted.
And that - BIG FAT LIE- is the name of that tune.
That
is a real deal high crime and misdemeanor
2881. robertjayb - 1/12/2004 5:09:42 PM
Listen Up!
The scathing Army War College report, "Bounding the
Global War on Terrorism," which is being tucked away deep inside the newspapers
that carry it at all, is online Here. It
is a pdf document of about 60 pages.
2882. jexster - 1/12/2004 9:29:33 PM
2883. jexster - 1/12/2004 9:33:59 PM
Here's your Debray Decompostion Scenario item for the day.
From
Newsweek..
Refereeing
in Hell
GIs are dying. Rival factions are turning on each other.
After freeing Iraq, can we keep it from coming apart? 
2884. jexster - 1/12/2004 9:40:51 PM
Strictly speaking I suppose that Debray Secompostion Theory is more properly
a corrollary to conservative William Lind's War Already Lost Postulate.
Debray makes essentially the same point and adds his "worsens hte longer
we stay to the point of fundie blowback - ie get out whilst the gittin's good"
2885. jexster - 1/12/2004 9:52:15 PM
When the WMD searches came up empty, Bush aides began claiming that the
invasion was actually a way of planting the seeds of democracy in Arab lands.
Now the fear is that Iraq's collapse could destabilize the entire region
Such elegance, such economy of expression!
2886. jexster - 1/12/2004 10:03:02 PM
Thank YOU ROBERT!!! Hopefully JRoth will have time to read and share his
thoughts.
I love to read military shit...most especially when Jeffrey
Record, a veteran defense expert who serves as a visiting research professor at
the Strategic Studies Institute of the Army War College says things I have been
saying all along, a voice crying in the wilderness of the deaf, the dumb, the
blind and the brain dead:
Record criticized the Bush
administration for lumping together al Qaeda and President Saddam Hussein's Iraq
"as a single, undifferentiated terrorist threat."
"This was a strategic
error of the first order because it ignored critical differences between the two
in character, threat level and susceptibility to U.S. deterrence and military
action," Record wrote.
"The result has been an unnecessary preventive
war of choice against a deterred Iraq that has created a new front in the Middle
East for Islamic terrorism and diverted attention and resources away from
securing the American homeland against further assault by an undeterrable al
Qaeda," Record wrote
2887. jexster - 1/12/2004 10:09:27 PM
And a special thanks to Al Di Poipu for bring this topic to for discussion
today.
2888. jexster - 1/12/2004 10:34:51 PM
All Strategic Studies Institute (SSI) monographs are available on the www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/ target=new>SSI Homepage for
electronic dissemination.
Sodden Thought for the Day:
Robert
could it be that Crawford's Little Corporal is the most militarily incompetent
Texican since Travis?? 
2889. jexster - 1/13/2004 4:16:20 AM
Bush Brings First Amendment to Fallujah: Troops Brutalize Reuters Crew
2890. jexster - 1/13/2004 4:19:26 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier was killed by a bomb in Baghdad on Monday and American forces shot dead seven armed looters, while Spain and the Iraqi Governing Council urged the United Nations (news - web sites) to return to help Iraq (news - web sites).
2891. Magoseph - 1/13/2004 7:56:44 AM
The response of the President to O'Neill falls far short so far as I am concerned. There is a considerable difference between having a policy of encouraging regime change as Bush's father did when he encouraged the opposition in Iraq to revolt and Clinton's attempts to mobilize international action against the Hussein regime. What O'Neill is saying is that from the moment of his inauguration Bush secretly, without the knowledge of the citizenry or its Congress, planned an invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation. If true this type of action is so unprecedented, so outrageous, and so unbeliable that it has not yet been defined in respect to whether or not it constitutes an impeachable offense.
2892. jexster - 1/13/2004 11:11:23 AM
Are we ahead of the curve around here or what?
We gots Wonks first to
call for impeachment
Robert first link to the monograph exposing Bush as
the worst Texican military figure in history and pre-history (feel the eyes of
Tejas upon you)
Goooollay!
2893. jexster - 1/13/2004 11:11:34 AM
FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - American soldiers killed at least four Iraqi
civilians Tuesday in a town at the heart of the anti-U.S. insurgency while a
U.S. Apache helicopter crashed nearby, probably after being hit by ground fire.
2894. concerned - 1/13/2004 11:19:42 AM
Re. 2891 -
No, it isn't. Where do you get the idea that the Pentagon
must go or has in the past gone to Congress to get all its military contingency
plans approved? And wouldn't doing so pretty much make it impossible to keep any
strategic military information classified?
For that matter, Xlowntoon
advocated removing Saddam and his administration had plans to that effect. And
were not Kosovo/Serbia sovereign? Maybe he should have been impeached for these
things instead, using your standards.
2895. jexster - 1/13/2004 1:26:35 PM
Bremmer: No Democracy for Iraq
2896. jexster - 1/13/2004 1:27:55 PM
TD...either you can defend the Cheney Regime's aggression on its own terms or you cannot.
2897. concerned - 1/13/2004 1:29:29 PM
I already have, you Saddam-lover.
2898. jexster - 1/13/2004 1:30:19 PM
The Clinton administration had no plans for the invasion, occupation and
exploitation of Iraq.
And actually the Cheney Regime had none beyond the
invasion that could be fairly called a plan nor did they America the truth about
what they did plan, why they planned it, and when they did
2899. jexster - 1/13/2004 1:31:35 PM
We all know you have this obession with Clinton, but we're stuck in a Cheney mess....welcome to 2004
2900. concerned - 1/13/2004 1:32:04 PM
The Clinton administration had no plans for the invasion, occupation and
exploitation of Iraq.
Doubtful, but signifies nothing even if true.
The bum couldn't even keep from being impeached, so incompetence is not a
defense.
2901. jexster - 1/13/2004 1:32:15 PM
they "tell"
whew...beat you to it Oozie
2902. jexster - 1/13/2004 1:33:24 PM
Earth to Planet Claire...
Time to engage in real time.
2903. jexster - 1/13/2004 1:33:47 PM
Real facts
Real time please
2904. Magoseph - 1/13/2004 2:04:15 PM
No, it isn't. Where do you get the idea that the Pentagon must go or has
in the past gone to Congress to get all its military contingency plans approved?
And wouldn't doing so pretty much make it impossible to keep any strategic
military information classified?
For your information, I did not
mention the Pentagon. I am talking about Bush. It is certainly a rare day when
you use Clinton as a mean to justify the Bush administration's actions. The only
thing I have to say about the whole matter is that O'Neill is a canny veteran of
the mayhem that prevails on Wall Street. He has best of the best in that climate
and may very well have derailed the Bush steamroller. He waited patiently and
obviously lulled the Bush crowd to sleep. At this point, I don't think they can
touch him and in my opinion, he has scored a punch that will do much to reduce
the Bush effectiveness in Foreign affairs.
2905. Al D - 1/13/2004 10:01:33 PM
The only thing I have to say about the whole matter is that O'Neill is a canny veteran of the mayhem that prevails on Wall Street.
With all due respect to your feminine charms, what exactly does the above
mean? It sounds just like the Communist claptrap I heard back in the '50's from
my commie brother-in-law.
No matter what Clinton said or didn't say about the Saddam regime,
Congress passed an Act in 1998 that called for regime change in Iraq. I was
wathcing a Liberal think tank discussion on C-Span yesterday when a question
from the audience was raised about O'Neill's comment and the reaction from the
panel was, big deal, it was National Policy since '98. It is a non story if
there ever was one, and Dems are silly to grab on to it, just as conservatives
are silly to pounch on the dirty missiles found by the Danes.
2906. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 8:41:30 AM
There is a very interesting analysis in the current Atlantic by Kenneth
Pollack on how he, and his colleagues in the intelligence and national security
community could get the WMD situation in Iraq so completely wrong. No real news,
but a comprehensive reading from an insider who had a key role in convincing
democrats that the war was necessary.
Unfortunately, it is not on the
web.
2907. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 8:44:44 AM
There is an interview with Pollack on line that covers much the same ground.
2908. Wombat - 1/14/2004 9:21:01 AM
The same issue of the Atlantic has an article that describes State Department, CIA and Military planning planning and preparations for postwar Iraq and how the Bush administration completely ignored them. Why Donald Rumsfeld still has a job after the role he played in this boggles my mind.
2909. Magoseph - 1/14/2004 9:37:27 AM
With all due respect to your feminine charms, what exactly does the above
mean? It sounds just like the Communist claptrap I heard back in the '50's from
my commie brother-in-law.
With all due respect to your advanced
years and experience, I would expect you would recognize that a bout between an
old tested warrior and a cub with not too much upstairs such as Bush is really
no contest.
2910. PincherMartin - 1/14/2004 9:43:19 AM
"Spies, Lies, and Weapons: What Went Wrong", by Kenneth Pollack
Here's The Atlantic Monthly article Jay refers to above.
2911. Wombat - 1/14/2004 10:03:42 AM
The directive under the Clinton adminstration was to try an effect regime
change through training and supporting Iraqi dissidents, and was funded
accordingly.
For Republicans and their "centrist" defenders to claim
this as an ex post facto justification for the Bush administration's actions is
laughable, and shows the bankruptcy of the justifications given for their choice
to wage war against Iraq.
2912. PincherMartin - 1/14/2004 10:09:26 AM
Some time ago, I promised some people here I would report back to comment on
the U.S. search for WMD in Iraq. I said I would so in August, but I gave myself
a few extra months to see if the interrogations of captured Iraqis would bear
any fruit.
What do you think now?
I think the evidence
points to Iraq having no significant and extant WMD program just prior to the
U.S. invasion. Nothing dramatic has been found and I now feel reasonably
confident nothing dramatic will be found.
Do you think there's still
a chance WMD will be found in Iraq?
Anything's possible, but I doubt
it. We've had a number of their scientists and core leadership in our hands for
some time. We've now had Saddam for about a month. Interrogations have, I'm
sure, been proceeding steadily and yet we have nothing to show for it except for
a handful of minor violations and some ambiguous evidence.
Did the
Bush administration lie about Iraq's WMD programs as a pretext for invasion?
No, I don't think so. There were a number of sources outside the Bush
administration that thought Iraq had those weapons, including members of the
Clinton administration and non-American analysts and intelligence agencies. The
Bush administration did hype a few claims that were not true, but they seem to
have done so in the belief that their general claims would be proven correct.
They oversold a point they believed to be true rather than outright fabricate
something they did not.
continued...
2913. PincherMartin - 1/14/2004 10:09:51 AM
Knowing what you know now, would you still support invading Iraq?
There's no way I could know then what I know now.
I do not
support invading a country simply because its leader is an evil tyrant. Yet,
that now appears to be what we have just done in Iraq, even if it was not our
intention. I still support the invasion because I believe that was the best
course of action we could take at the time, given what we knew at the time.
2914. Wombat - 1/14/2004 10:15:21 AM
A minor quibble, Pincher. It seems apparent to me that the Bush
administration was unwilling to take no for an answer, and sought to exclude
reputable assessments that showed Iraq's nuclear program was moribund and far
from the imminent threat proclaimed by the administration. As to chemical
weapons, the Bush administration erred in good company, yours and mine included.
Welcome back, by the way. I trust that you are wearing asbestos shorts.
2915. PincherMartin - 1/14/2004 10:33:17 AM
Wombat --
A minor quibble, Pincher. It seems apparent to me that
the Bush administration was unwilling to take no for an answer, and sought to
exclude reputable assessments that showed Iraq's nuclear program was moribund
and far from the imminent threat proclaimed by the administration. As to
chemical weapons, the Bush administration erred in good company, yours and mine
included.
I don't deny the Bush administration cooked up some
evidence to make its case, but it's not unusual for an administration to
oversell its policy by exaggerating its good points and even suppressing or
downplaying some reports that might set it back.
However, I think
several members of the Bush administration, including the president himself,
have been very surprised nothing has been found in Iraq, so I don't believe
their slanted presentation of the case was a pretext to invade.
Welcome back, by the way. I trust that you are wearing asbestos
shorts.
???
2916. PelleNilsson - 1/14/2004 10:39:44 AM
Welcome back Pincher. I like the honesty of your post. I agree with Wombat. I don't think anyone doubted that Iraq had chemical and, possibly, biological weapons. I didn't think they had the delivery systems to make them a threat to the West, but in contrast to you I supported the war because of the regime change. If I had known then what we know now I had been less sure about it, but I'm still guardedly optimistic of the outcome.
2917. jexster - 1/14/2004 10:49:40 AM
Carl von Clausewitz believed that the “first, the supreme, most far-reaching
act of judgment that the statesman and the commander have to make is to
establish the kind of war on which they are embarking, neither mistaking it for,
not trying to turn it into, something that is alien to its true nature. This is
the first of all strategic questions and the most comprehensive.”1
The nature and parameters of the GWOT, however, remain
frustratingly unclear. The administration has postulated a
multiplicity
of enemies, including rogue states, weapons of mass destruction (WMD)
proliferators, terrorist organizations, and terrorism itself. It has also, at
least for the purposes of mobilizing and sustaining domestic political support
for the war on Iraq and other
potential preventive military actions, confl
ated them as a general,undifferentiated threat. In so doing, the administration
has arguably subordinated strategic clarity to the moral clarity it seeks in
foreign policy and may have set the United States on a path of open-ended and
unnecessary confl ict with states and nonstate entities that pose no direct or
imminent threat to the United States.
Sound strategy mandates threat
discrimination Sound strategy mandates threat discrimination and reasonable
harmonization of ends and means. The GWOT falls short on both counts.
"BOUNDING THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM"
2918. marjoribanks - 1/14/2004 10:55:13 AM
However, I think several members of the Bush administration, including the
president himself, have been very surprised nothing has been found in Iraq, so I
don't believe their slanted presentation of the case was a pretext to invade.
Rose cololored glasses. The President and his advisers are clearly
not reasonable men, on this topic. They hyped a certain set of cases for waging
War, and still - despite all evidence to the contrary - stick to each case until
forced to back away. It's shameless and the playing up of non-existent links
between Hussein an Al-Qaeda is only the most egregious example.
2919. PelleNilsson - 1/14/2004 11:02:47 AM
jexstr doesn't read he only posts. I have known others who only care about output, but no Westerners.
2920. PincherMartin - 1/14/2004 11:06:32 AM
Pelle --
I don't think anyone doubted that Iraq had chemical and,
possibly, biological weapons. I didn't think they had the delivery systems to
make them a threat to the West, but in contrast to you I supported the war
because of the regime change. If I had known then what we know now I had been
less sure about it, but I'm still guardedly optimistic of the outcome.
I try to be optimistic, but I find it hard when I see no visible signs
of progress in the security situation there. Even with the best of intentions,
without security, what do we have? The Shias are starting to make noises and if
they start actively resisting with the same intensity as the Sunnis have been
resisting, we're fucked.
*****
The intelligence failure has
really shaken my faith in the spooks. Before the invasion I would have said we
knew Iraq had chemical and/or biological weapons with the sort of certainty we
use when we talk about Israel having nukes. It seemed that certain. (Like you
and Wombat, I never believed there was solid evidence Iraq had nukes -- although
I thought it was plausible to believe, on no evidence whatsoever beyond Saddam's
history, that Iraq had some secret nuclear program somewhere in the country that
was in its first stages of development.)
To me, this intelligence
failure hasn't been adequately discussed beyond it being used as a cudgel to
beat Bush. But it needs to be addressed. How could we have been this wrong,
again?
2921. PincherMartin - 1/14/2004 11:14:28 AM
Marj --
Rose [colored] glasses. The President and his advisers are
clearly not reasonable men, on this topic. They hyped a certain set of cases for
waging War, and still - despite all evidence to the contrary - stick to each
case until forced to back away. It's shameless and the playing up of
non-existent links between Hussein an Al-Qaeda is only the most egregious
example.
Ex post facto judgements, Marj. The case seemed fairly
convincing to you, in its generalities, before the invasion. You go hither and
thither in your thinking more times than a person can keep track, but I know
that at some points along the track you dug up, running between stands, you
supported taking Saddam out.
I also thought the case tying Al Qaeda with
Iraq before the invasion was weak and said so at the time.
2922. jexster - 1/14/2004 11:25:00 AM
Neither nation-building nor political stamina in
protracted conflicts
with irregular enemies has been a hallmark of American statecraft since the
1960s. Indeed, the “primary problem at the core of American deficiencies in
post-confl ict capabilities, resources, and commitment is a national aversion to
nation-building, which was strengthened by failure in Vietnam,” concluded a
widelyread
U.S. Army study on reconstructing Iraq published the month
before Operation IRAQI FREEDOM was launched.85
The study went on to
predict and warn:
2923. PelleNilsson - 1/14/2004 11:26:01 AM
I think the Pollack interview goes a long way towards explaining the failure. As someone who dabbles in history I know that you have to have some preconceptions, euphemistically called a theory, before you go to the sources otherwise you are lost. The problem here was that the conclusions were not critiqued properly, or rather, the intelligence entity that came up with the critique had been thouroghly mistaken in 1991 and had lost credibility.
2924. vonKreedon - 1/14/2004 11:27:15 AM
PM writes: There were a number of sources outside the Bush administration
that thought Iraq had those weapons,
Pelle writes: I don't think
anyone doubted that Iraq had chemical and, possibly, biological weapons.
These statements are true up until the last set of UN inspections. By
the time we invaded Iraq the inspectors, see 3/7/03 UNMOVIC
Report and IAEA
news release, it was becoming apparent that there were no WMD in Iraq.
If one combines the Bush administrations insistence on rushing to war
with the UNMOVIC/IAEA reports, the recent O'Neill revelation that the
administration was looking for excuses to invade Iraq from the get-go one can
easily come up with a more sinister interpretation of PM's admission that the
administration "...cooked up some evidence to make its case...." This
should be a major issue, the administration lied, or at the very least spun
information out of reasonable recognition of the truth, to induce the US
Congress and electorate to support an elective war that appears to have been
planned from the very beginning of the administration as a vengeance and looting
expedition.
2925. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 11:29:07 AM
I'm glad to see Pincher back in the context of the Atlantic articles and the
post-mortem discussion on Slate, because it makes apparent the consensus views
that are coming around.
The only thing I would add to the Pollack pieces
and Pincher's comments is that they all seem to include information up to the
some point last year, and do not incorporate what was learned by the inspectors.
Yes, before the inspectors went back in, there was widespread belief in Iraq
holding CBW stocks and/or prodution facilities. Yes, there was widespread belief
that Iraq had an interest in acquiring nuclear weapons, but few believed that
this threat was imminent. There was no widespread belief that there were links
to al qaeda or 9/11, nor that Iraq threatened the US in any imminent way.
However, if you add the results of the return of the inspectors to the
case, I think that the case for invading in March because of WMD had been
greatly weakened. It was evident at that time that, as AlBaraedi said, there was
no active nuclear program. It was also evident at the time that, as Blix said,
there may be no CBW, but that further inspections would be required to prove or
disprove that claim. I think it is worth noting that a central part of Pollack's
argument for why the assessments were so far off is that there was way to
confirm or deny defector reports reports on the ground.
2926. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 11:31:42 AM
This excerpt from Pollack supporting my claim in the crosspost with VK that
Pollack makes this argument.
When the inspectors suddenly left, the
various intelligence agencies were caught psychologically and organizationally
off balance. Desperate for information on Iraq, they began to trust sources that
they would previously have had UNSCOM vet. If a defector came out of Iraq after
1998, the CIA had to gauge his credibility by comparing his account with those
of other defectors—who might be unreliable or just unproven—or by checking it
against whatever they could glean from satellites and other indirect sources.
With so little to go on, intelligence agencies believed many reports that now
seem deeply suspect.
In the absence of hard evidence, the intelligence
analysts tended to fall back on the underlying assumptions they had begun with.
Those assumptions included the belief that Saddam was determined to preserve his
extant WMD capabilities and acquire new ones. And now there were no weapons
inspectors to hinder him. The inspectors had also been a moderating influence on
Western intelligence agencies; the information they provided, and the mere fact
of their presence in Iraq, helped those agencies stick to reasonable
suppositions and keep unsubstantiated fears at bay. After 1998 many analysts
increasingly entertained worst-case scenarios—scenarios that gradually became
mainstream estimates.
2927. Wombat - 1/14/2004 11:32:46 AM
Pincher:
I think part of the failure was due to an assessment of
Saddam that through his own mendacity, nothing he or his regime said was to be
believed.
The other part of the failure ties directly and indirectly
into how the Bush adminsitration used and politicized intelligence. To
oversimplify: the adminstration was determined on war with Iraq, and was going
to either ignore intelligence that didn't back up their case, or pressure
intelligence producers to change their assessments to make them fit with what
they wanted to hear. More insidious--but understandable--was the intelligence
agencies themselves slanting--or giving undue credence to--reports and analyses
that they knew the administration would read. An agency that produces unused
products will have trouble defending its reason to exist.
2928. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 11:36:51 AM
Pincher--
Thanks for posting that link. I couldn't do it from the
site earlier today, and my first attempt at your link failed.
Do you
have a similar way to get the Fallows article up?
2929. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 11:39:47 AM
I think part of the failure was due to an assessment of Saddam that
through his own mendacity, nothing he or his regime said was to be believed.
But they did believe him when he claimed to have dangerous
weapons. This is another reason Pollack cites for the failure to analyze the
situation accurately. Saddam rattled sabers. As Alistair and I discussed last
May, it was easy to think of reasons, both domestic and foreign, for Saddam to
lie about his capabilities. Pollack spends more time on internal matters than
I've mostly seen, and the discussion is informative, but too nuanced to
summarize well here.
2930. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 11:40:01 AM
toys
2931. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 11:40:21 AM
Let's try that again.
2932. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 11:40:42 AM
One more time
2933. vonKreedon - 1/14/2004 11:41:46 AM
PM - You are due kudos for coming over and directly addressing the issue and ramifications of the intelligence failures/misuses in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. Shows your intelligence and integrity.
2934. jexster - 1/14/2004 12:09:17 PM
Actually, PM if fits perfectly. The conflation of objectives (war on
terror/the Saddam problem/the democratic domino theory/preemptive war/weapons
proliferation) and the failure of post invasion planning is of obe piece with
the faith based intellgence. Flights of ideological fantasy combined with an
unbounded thirst for domestic political advantage drove all of it.
2935. robertjayb - 1/14/2004 12:35:46 PM
More debunking of Saddam-Al Qaeda link...(NYTimes)
WASHINGTON, Jan. 13 — Saddam Hussein warned his Iraqi supporters to
be wary of joining forces with foreign Arab fighters entering Iraq to battle
American troops, according to a document found with the former Iraqi leader when
he was captured, Bush administration officials said Tuesday.
The
document appears to be a directive, written after he lost power, from Mr.
Hussein to leaders of the Iraqi resistance, counseling caution against getting
too close to Islamic jihadists and other foreign Arabs coming into occupied
Iraq, according to American officials.
2936. marjoribanks - 1/14/2004 12:48:00 PM
You go hither and thither in your thinking more times than a person can
keep track, but I know that at some points along the track you dug up, running
between stands, you supported taking Saddam out.
Please. I supported
the war on Iraq precisely because it became obvious that the US intended on an
old-fashioned colonial-type exercise. I still support it for that reason, and
still harbor optimism that the exercise will yield positive dividends.
However, I have simultaneously excoriated the Bushites for mendacity in
its war apologia. And now I am outraged that they stick to the mendacious,
clearly false, line of apologia. Plus they have added bullying to the arsenal of
tricks, and loosed the worst kind of attack rats to try and shout down what
should be a reasonable discussion of what happened, what has gone right, what
has gone wrong, and where this country needs to go in Iraq.
It's
shameful, and they are shameless.
2937. jexster - 1/14/2004 12:53:55 PM
The following is from Sy Hersh's May 2003 New Yorker piece about hou
Cheney/Rummy/Wolfie/Feith cooked intelligence in order to play up war fears...
But the facts were reported months earlier as I recall in an article in
Newsweek that was prompted by UNMOVIC reports that were showing each discrete
allegation provided by the US were not true...
In August, 1995,
General Hussein Kamel, who was in charge of Iraq’s weapons program, defected to
Jordan, with his brother, Colonel Saddam Kamel. They brought with them crates of
documents containing detailed information about Iraqi efforts to develop weapons
of mass destruction—much of which was unknown to the U.N. inspection teams that
had been on the job since 1991—and were interviewed at length by the U.N.
inspectors. In 1996, Saddam Hussein lured the brothers back with a promise of
forgiveness, and then had them killed. The Kamels’ information became a major
element in the Bush Administration’s campaign to convince the public of the
failure of the U.N. inspections.
2938. jexster - 1/14/2004 12:55:12 PM
Last October, in a speech in Cincinnati, the President cited the Kamel
defections as the moment when Saddam’s regime “was forced to admit that it had
produced more than thirty thousand liters of anthrax and other deadly biological
agents. . . . This is a massive stockpile of biological weapons that has never
been accounted for, and is capable of killing millions.” A couple of weeks
earlier, Vice-President Cheney had declared that Hussein Kamel’s story “should
serve as a reminder to all that we often learned more as the result of
defections than we learned from the inspection regime itself.”
2939. jexster - 1/14/2004 12:56:14 PM
The full record of Hussein Kamel’s interview with the inspectors reveals,
however, that he also said that Iraq’s stockpile of chemical and biological
warheads, which were manufactured before the 1991 Gulf War, had been destroyed,
in many cases in response to ongoing inspections. The interview, on August 22,
1995,was conducted by Rolf Ekeus, then the executive chairman of the U.N.
inspection teams, and two of his senior associates—Nikita Smidovich and Maurizio
Zifferaro. “You have an important role in Iraq,” Kamel said, according to the
record, which was assembled from notes taken by Smidovich. “You should not
underestimate yourself. You are very effective in Iraq.” When Smidovich noted
that the U.N. teams had not found “any traces of destruction,” Kamel responded,
“Yes, it was done before you came in.” He also said that Iraq had destroyed its
arsenal of warheads. “We gave instructions not to produce chemical weapons,”
Kamel explained later in the debriefing. “I don’t remember resumption of
chemical-weapons production before the Gulf War. Maybe it was only minimal
production and filling. . . . All chemical weapons were destroyed. I ordered
destruction of all chemical weapons. All weapons—biological, chemical, missile,
nuclear—were destroyed.”
2940. jexster - 1/14/2004 12:56:59 PM
".From the beginning of the war propaganda campaign in August
2002 facts began progressively to emerge in the public domain
By
December there was ample publically available information to suppot the
conclusio that Bush had built an artifice of lies and manipulation. And yes,
there's no need to mince words, they "lied".
2941. jexster - 1/14/2004 1:03:22 PM
Why do you think Bush spent the last three months of the Congressoional
session jsut past stonewalling the Senate Select Intelligence Committee?
Frontline's
"Truth, War and Consequences" vividly portrays the dynamic of deceit that
took hold.
2942. jexster - 1/14/2004 1:07:59 PM
Please. I supported the war on Iraq precisely because it became obvious
that the US intended on an old-fashioned colonial-type exercise. I still support
it for that reason, and still harbor optimism that the exercise will yield
positive dividends.
Though I've belted you and flayed you,
By
the livin' Gawd that made you,
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
2943. marjoribanks - 1/14/2004 1:18:01 PM
Yes, I cannot deny that Jexster's ceaseleess Gunga Dinning of me does have some aptness in this instance.
2944. jexster - 1/14/2004 1:26:07 PM
The American people need to konw that I will be making the decision (to go
to war) based on the latest intelligence Kennebunk Golf Course August 2002
There is simply no doubt that Saddam Hussein now posesses weapnns
of mass destruction Cheney 3-4 weeks later
Well we now are beginning
to get some idea of what that "intelligence" really was. It is becoming
increasingly clear with each leak, each tell all, each leak from disruntled DIA
and CIA analysts, that the intelligence was uncertain and contradictory. It is
becoming increasingly apparent that Cheney lied.
2945. jexster - 1/14/2004 1:30:25 PM
Marj, what would Ghandi say?
2946. jexster - 1/14/2004 1:32:58 PM
CAMP EDEN, Iraq - U.S. tests on mortar shells found in Iraq (news - web sites) and suspected of containing blister agents have turned up negative,
2947. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 1:37:24 PM
Jex--
You may have noticed that the combination of the slate probing
liberal hawk discussion, the thoughtful Atlantic articles and interviews, and
the return of PincherMartin to discuss the post-mortem might suggest a more
nuanced discussion here as well. When people admit they've made mistakes in
their assessments, and want to explore those mistakes, that's a good time to
recognize that perhaps you too have made mistakes in your analysis, and try to
consider a more nuanced view.
At least, I think such an approach would
help this discussion and I'm hoping that you and concerned, in particular, can
try to help us preserve that tone, for a while at least.
2948. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 1:38:16 PM
"have made" should have been "may have made."
Fuck you, Freud.
2949. PelleNilsson - 1/14/2004 1:49:59 PM
We cannot discount the fact that until last Saddam's minions behaved as if they had something to hide. We can also not discount the theory that they fabricated phony progress reports to milk the government for funds. So perhaps what they wanted to hide was that there was nothing to hide.
2950. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 1:53:40 PM
That's certainly a theory you would have expected an analyst to explore, as
Alistair and I were saying last May. Likewise, it's easy to think up reasons for
Saddam to want others to believe that he had these weapons.
2951. vonKreedon - 1/14/2004 1:55:02 PM
Jay - Absolutely right, unfortunately Jex appears to be completely incapable of such nuance. But he sure does post a lot!
2952. jexster - 1/14/2004 1:59:03 PM
I appreciate Pincher's visit, as always, but it wasn't HIS mistake to
confess.
His "assessesments" were assessents of assessments of
misleading information deliberately provided the public.
Pincher has
nothing to be embarrassed about. Ken Pollack..he has no excuse and to think I
had planned to skip his CYA Tour.
The Atlantic interview was every bit
as pathetic as I had expected.
I hadn't planneed on reading it.
Damn you
2953. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 2:03:31 PM
How was it pathetic?
2954. marjoribanks - 1/14/2004 2:10:32 PM
I see no reason for evryone on this site to self-flagellate.
For one
thing, no one else here has been on an ideology-based toot. For another, where
is the acknowledgement of the obvious fact that Cheney and gang have been
outright lying despite knowing better - in the expectation that they will get
away with it. Also, where is the acknowledgement that the attack rats have been
using every desperate tactic possible (from faux-patriotism to scurrilous
character assasination) to avoid fessing up to certain truths about this
campaign in Iraq?
2955. vonKreedon - 1/14/2004 2:21:27 PM
For one thing, no one else here has been on an ideology-based toot.
I would disagree with this statement,; assuming that by "toot" you mean
one who will take whatever position on the facts suits one's ideology or party.
I think that all of us fit this description at one time or another.
Self-congratulatory denial of this behavior only begets more of it from all
sides.
2956. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 2:27:00 PM
No, Banks, I agree with you and jexster, that Cheney outright lied and
continues to do so with every opportunity in a duplicitous and shamefully
cynical attempt to retain power.
But we all know that I feel this way,
that you feel this way, that jexster feels this way and that concerned thinks
that there were wmd all along and it doesn't matter if nobody finds them because
he knows they were there all along.
But this post-mortem is interesting
and is also fairly nuanced. There was another massive intelligence failure wrt
Iraq. It led to the provision of pretexts (imo) to an administration that hyped
and exploited every bit of raw evidence of whatever provenance to provide a
justification for rash, unnecessary action. How did this happen? Pollack was an
insider through the key parts of this period, and he was fooled. He did not
agree with the need for the invasion at that time, but could not see how one
could not be avoided.
I voiced that question here a while ago--okay, so
there are no wmd. Does that mean sanctions would have been in place
indefinitely? The economy and the citizens were suffering, while Saddam was not.
So this easily could become a question not of whether, but when and how.
Raising those questions would have certainly meant "later" as of the
middle of 2002 as these plans were being put together and deployment begun. Any
later, in my current view, would have endangered the election cycle. So they had
to go in March, despite the collapse of their rationale.
2957. jexster - 1/14/2004 2:30:10 PM
Jay he spends at half of it making excuses for himself.
"Why eeryone
in the intelligence community thought they had a WMD program..."
Well
not Greg Thielman, not Paul O'Neill, not Scott Ritter, and if from readimg his
public statements closely as I did, I believe that Blix wsa skeptical even
before he first set foot in Iraq.
You have to read Pollack with a
jaundiced and very critical eye. Its vital to understand his stake here. Pollack
is an out of power, powercrat who works for an out of favor policy player.
Washingon policy politics is his life. The Ken Pollacks of the world want to be
power players. That book has left his ass hanging and his career with it.
You might recall that Josh Marshall ran a two part interview with him
just before the war. I made much the same case to Marshall. We exchanged a few
emails even. He is a policy whore..
2958. PelleNilsson - 1/14/2004 2:32:56 PM
And your point is?
2959. jexster - 1/14/2004 2:33:41 PM
I should add that Marshall thought I was harsh "crude" I think he put it. But Marshall never again ran a Ken Pollack item either.
2960. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 2:34:15 PM
Well not Greg Thielman, not Paul O'Neill, not Scott Ritter, and if from
readimg his public statements closely as I did, I believe that Blix wsa
skeptical even before he first set foot in Iraq.
When are you
talking about? Just before the war, as I said, the case was falling apart. I
agree that he's not gonna say anything nasty about anybody who could help him in
the future, because he is sure to want a seat at the table again.
2961. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 2:35:52 PM
His point, Pelle, is that Pollack provides the desired product to the people
in power, and is not an independent analyst searching for truth. And he's
screwed the pooch big time here, and he's backing and filling might hard, trying
to shed the "massive failure" label.
Right, Jex?
2962. marjoribanks - 1/14/2004 2:41:04 PM
Kreedon.
Toot = binge.
I do deny that most of us here have
been consciously arguing that black is white, when all evidence available
suggests that it is not. I further defy you to find anyone here who has behaved
in the shameful manner of the ApeofHades and his small baboon circle jerk, who
not only argued contra all available evidence but launched incessant pathetic
group attacks on perfectly reasonable adults, using every trick of the two-bit
demagogue's arsenal. Now, proven wrong in every aspect of their arguments, we
need a bit more than a guarded set of mild admissions.
Pincher Martin,
the puffed-up and often ludicrous Friend of Tigers, is the most human face of
this tired hack crew, admittedly. And this small set of concessions may be sign
that he has found his head at last. But let's see. As the sage among us have
been saying from the first, time will tell.
2963. PelleNilsson - 1/14/2004 2:41:38 PM
I got that but does it devaluate what he says?
2964. marjoribanks - 1/14/2004 2:44:48 PM
What is there of any interest in what he said?
2965. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 2:48:22 PM
It means that he's not reporting facts on the ground, but providing the
analyses sought by the policy makers. Or that he practices cya analysis to
prevent from being caught out. In this case, it means that he was complicit in
the movement of analysis from verbal information through physical corroboration
to final report to a simple acceptance of incorrect human intelligence.
That the answer that they came up with was the desired answer, was not
studded with caveats that there was no way to corroborate the information
directly and was completely wrong leaves him (and everyone else involved in the
business) in a bad position. He was wrong, and was politically correct. That
looks like cooked intelligence.
Still, it's worth noting that they were
much less wrong than the Rummy intelligence sausage factory.
I do think
that the liberal hawks were irresponsible in not speaking out more forcefully in
support of continued inspections. But they may have done so, and been drowned
out by the media.
2966. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 2:51:19 PM
Banks-
The process by which it happened. One can read it as I'm
interpreting jexster to read it, as just one more intelligence player feeding
the desired answers to the national security apparatus.
Or you can read
it as he presented it, everyone off on a tangent because they had no reliable
information. In either case, it's a massive failure. I said a while ago--June
maybe--that the reason the press wasn't exploring the question of whether there
really just weren't any WMD was because it would have been such a devestating
charge.
2967. marjoribanks - 1/14/2004 2:52:47 PM
Has Fareed Zakaria written into that Slate thing yet? I'd like to see what
his hair-shirt looks like. Pretty damned skimpy, I'll bet, and that's quite fair
enough because he was nuanced from the start.
2968. jexster - 1/14/2004 2:53:19 PM
I am going to make it personal so that I can make the point clear.
I
did an analysis of homeleesness policies in San Francisco for a seminar. I gave
the presentation which was like the paper itself was awesome, very powerful.
After a couple questions, I stated to sit down. The professor says
"Well, John, my only comment is, that your analysis would have been powerful and
convincing had you fully disclosed your interests here."
"HuH?"
"Well you work for Gavin Newsom don't you"
"uh..dudh no..I am
just a schlocky volunteer"
But she was absolutely correct. One of the
twenty odd policy recommendaations happened to support a Newsom initiative we
know as "Care Not Cash". I had no contact whatsoever with anyone from the Newsom
office, no assistance, and had not done any work of any kind at that point of a
policy nature. Yet she was right. I should have disclosed my partisan connection
so that the consumer could evaluate my arguments with full knowledge of what my
stakes were or weren't.
That of cousre was just an exercise. Washington
isn't. Yet that is exactly the sort of information that, by bitter experience,
learned was crucial whenever any policy advocate came to my office to pitch
legislation, when any think tank type or government "expert" tesitified before a
committee, etc.
That clear?
2969. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 2:55:42 PM
Now if you want to take the jexster Pollack is a whore position more broadly,
the press is also complicit in this. The liberal hawks are being given a chance
to rehabilitate themselves when they were, in fact, completely wrong. They're
getting this chance because it's all a little club up there in DC, and the usual
suspects stay around, no matter what.
This is essentially the center of
Krugman's criticism of political coverage, that the media is complicit in a
series of kabuki theatrical productions.
2970. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 2:58:30 PM
It was just this issue that led to me to cancel my Foreign Policy and Foreign
Affairs subscription after the fall of the Wall. All their writers on the
subject of the Soviet Union were completely, inalterably, unmistakably, flat
out, completely wrong.
And they kept on getting published in the
magazines.
2971. jexster - 1/14/2004 2:59:15 PM
Yea you got it Jay...everyone wants to have influence. Some are better at
detaching but its particularly difficult when the stakes are THAT high and the
war drums are beating that loudly.
CSIS and CEIP turned out highly
credible stuff. CEIP had the WMD angle nailed early on while CSIS sniffed out
the nuke crap and shredded post war planning weeks before the first shot was
fired.
2972. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 3:00:26 PM
No, no Zakaria yet. Lots of column inches, though.
2973. jexster - 1/14/2004 3:03:26 PM
Hell yes they are. A day didn't pass that I didn't read the Guardian and the
Finanical Times for Iraq stories. Sometimes I even used Lexis to get foreign
sources and during the war, when that purported GRU daily intel brief frm
Baghdad appeared, I was on it like a fly on shit.
Bush hatred obsessive
compulsive disorder..no known cure
2974. jexster - 1/14/2004 3:20:16 PM
Another timely on topic post!
From Defense and the National Interest
- that site where Pentagon and Langley renegade analysts vent their rage at
Ruummy and his OSP intel bakers, and other defense scam artists..
The
attached CBS news report says that tonight's edition of "60 Minutes" will
include a segment where former treasury secretary Paul O'Neill (who was fired by
President Bush because of his opposition to tax cuts) alleges that the decision
to remove Saddam Hussein via a preemptive war was made well before the 9/11
terrorist attacks [on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon] traumatized our
nation's people and the popular press into accepting a nation ruled by the
politics of fear.
I asked my good friend Doctor Werther, a frequent
contributor to these Comments (see Comment #s 494, 492, 466, 458,453, 441, and
419), for a brief memorandum describing his assessment of O'Neill's stunning
allegation. What follows is that memorandum:
Werther Memorandum:
9-11: An American Reichstag Fire?
"The State is not force alone.
It depends upon the credulity of man quite as much as upon his docility. Its aim
is not merely to make him obey, but also to make him want to obey." — H. L.
Mencken Minority Report: H. L. Mencken's Notebooks (New York: Knopf. 1956). p.
217.
Former Secretary of the Treasury Paul O'Neill has provided a
significant corrective to the naive — or disingenuous — assertion that 9/11 was
a catalyzing event which wrenched the Bush administration from its alleged
intention to follow a "humble" foreign policy. Instead, there is an accumulating
body of evidence that 9/11 was a suspiciously useful pretext (like the Reichstag
fire) rather than a bolt from the blue that "changed everything."
2975. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 3:23:28 PM
The Iraq
liberation Act of 1998 makes for interesting reading.
My favorite
sections:
SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
Nothing in this Act
shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States
Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.
[Sec 4]
(2) MILITARY ASSISTANCE
(A) The President is
authorized to direct the drawdown of defense articles from the stocks of the
Department of Defense, defense services of the Department of Defense, and
military education and training for such organizations.
(B) The
aggregate value (as defined in section 644(m) of the Foreign Assistance Act of
1961) of assistance provided under this paragraph may not exceed $97,000,000.
Pretty much the same thing as the Bush administration is
doing, right? 97 million total versus a billion a week. 'bout the same.
2976. PelleNilsson - 1/14/2004 3:30:06 PM
Well, I'm on the verge of losing interest again. I thought the Pollock interview provided some valuable insights into how the intelligence bureaucracy works and why the results were so disastrously wrong. jay seems to think that I'm some country hick who has to have things explained in excruciating detail. Of course Pollock has an agenda. Of course he is tendentious. But if you strip away that, there are still things of interest. If jay had half the experience I have of high-level office politics he could count himself lucky.
2977. jexster - 1/14/2004 3:31:05 PM
They tred to pull that one in aarly 2002 ie that Congress had already
authorized an invasion. Somehow our spineless Democratic "leaders" pitched
enough of a bitch...for all the good it did.
Now they're trotting out
that canard again..why I asked Al whether he knew what that nothing of an
enactment really provided.
2978. jexster - 1/14/2004 3:34:13 PM
It wasn't worthless, especially the first half. It when the CYA bit started
that my hackles got my dander up.
The Greg Thielman interview for
Frontline is pretty revealing as well on a personal level I mean.
Thielman was that State department intel analyst who resigned in
September 2002
2979. jexster - 1/14/2004 4:14:14 PM
Final item...one you'll find linked as a Relatec Comment in the Werther
morandum...an article on the prospects of "Debray disintegraton" ...
Watch the Shiites...watch em..
The
Specter of Sectarian and Ethnic Unrest in Iraq Nicholas Blanford January 7,
2004
(Nicholas Blanford is a Beirut-based journalist. He
recently spent a month reporting from Iraq.)
The main reason for
Shiite magnanimity toward the occupation forces is the expectation that they
will reap the rewards in the new Iraq by virtue of their superior numbers.
Indeed, it is only the powerful Shiite clergy that is keeping the community in
check. The average Iraqi Shiite has as little regard for his occupiers as his
Sunni countrymen. It would be a serious mistake to assume that Shiite quiescence
is a sign of approval for the occupation. "Patience has its limits and we
are waiting because we are tired of seeing tanks and soldiers and listening to
the sounds of explosions," Sheikh al-Awadi said. "The existence of the Islamic
clerics exerts a spiritual control over the people. If these people were
released, there is no one that could stop them. The wisdom of the hawza [the
highest institute of Shia religious learning] is holding the people back."
2980. jexster - 1/14/2004 4:14:24 PM
Shiite political ambitions are on a collision course with Sunni Arab fears of
being left out. If the Shiites fail to receive what they feel is their due and
if the poor state of basic services is not drastically improved, there is a very
real risk of a Shiite resistance emerging. That would effectively sound the
death knell of the foreign military presence in Iraq. While the current
insurgency may be fragmented and ad hoc, the well-organized Shiite groups --
some of which were trained by the Iranian military and have combat experience --
would make the occupation untenable. Yet an Iraq in which the Shiites have a
greater say than the Sunnis will feed the latter's fears of isolation and
possible persecution, undermining any motivation to cooperate with the new
order.
2981. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 9:22:28 PM
pelle,
Please forgive me, and don't mistake my views for my trying to
provide an exegisis of jexster's views.
I do agree, completely, that
the Pollock interview provided some valuable insights into how the
intelligence bureaucracy works and why the results were so disastrously
wrong.
But I do also think that jexster's points represent a useful
insight into the motivations of people like Pollack. The idea that the Pollack
commentary may not be policy oriented, but career oriented is a worthwhile
caveat.
And if you want to accuse anybody of naivete on this score, I
should be first in line. Like Lily Tomlin said, I try to be cynical, but it is
hard to keep up.
2982. jexster - 1/14/2004 10:31:23 PM
I conceded did I that anger blinded me to the "insights", partially and
skewed though they are, especially those found in the first half or so of the
interview. It is the sweeping exculpatory statements that made me see red not
the least of which was his claim to initimate knowlege of the Kamel Hussein
"disclosures" and to unanimity in the intelligence community, a unanimity that
he gingerly but clearly discredits in the first part.
CYA...you
could learn more from Sy Hersh and Greg Thielman and now Paul O'Neill.
But we have more serious concerns than Pollack's power lusts...
White House rethinks Iraq plan
Objections by the
Shias' religious leader and the Kurds throw Washington's vital 'smooth
transition' plan into confusion
Turkey Warns Kurds Against Breakup of Iraq
Kurd Leader
Remains Defiant
"Within a federal Iraq, there will be a region called
Kurdistan. And Kirkuk is part of Kurdistan. It is part of our history and
identity."
2983. Al D - 1/14/2004 10:35:17 PM
Marj, what would Ghandi say?
"I never over charged for gas when I ran the station in St. Louis."
What were the alternatives to invading and ridding the world of Saddam?
Let us agree, arguendo, as Ace like to say, that the inspectors would have
eventually certified that Iraq had no WMD. Keep in mind that inspectors would
not even have been in Iraq without troops massed on their border.
Would there have been any reason to keep sanctions on, wouldn't Europe
have insisted they be lifted. How long would it have taked Saddam to re-start
his weapons program? Are you all convinced he had no wish for a nuclear weapon?
Could he have purchased a few for Korea, or Pakistan, especially if Musharrif is
deposed?
And to oppose what Bush has done, isn't it necessary to insist that to
remove a tyranical dictator is not an option except for those under his heal?
One can continualy harp on the Bush administration for the invasion of
Iraq; let us not forget it was Congress in 1998 that asked for regime change and
Congress that authorized Bush's action.
2984. Al D - 1/14/2004 10:36:28 PM
I have enjoyed the discussion above and also the discussion on Slate.
2985. jayackroyd - 1/14/2004 10:48:25 PM
What were the alternatives to invading and ridding the world of Saddam?
Let us agree, arguendo, as Ace like to say, that the inspectors would have
eventually certified that Iraq had no WMD.
That is the central point
of dispute. It's not a question of whether removing him was in the best
interests of the world. It was when, and how. The administration chose a
unilateral occupation in March based on false pretexts. There were alternatives.
The administration chose to slough them off as nonsense, and bet the farm on
candy and flowers.
This, in my opinion, was a serious foreign policy
error, and a serious abrogation of the president's responsibility to the
American people.
IMO, the latter would not be so, had he pulled it off.
Had he the vision, the resources and a plan to lead a movement to create a
democratic, capitalist pro American state in Iraq, then I'd forgive him his
methods. And maybe I'll change my mind. Time will tell. But I said in March that
I strongly doubted this administration's ability to manage the aftermath, and,
so far, I've been proven correct.
The deadline doesn't help. It makes it
look all the more like cynical electoral politics, rather than the commitment to
any ideals.
2986. Al D - 1/14/2004 10:59:15 PM
For anyone to claim that it's not about politics is either naive or stupid. I don't believe Bush went into the war for political gain, but I grant he may try to get out for political gain. However, we really won't be leaving Iraq in June, just putting the Iraqies in charge. Isn't this what his critics want?
Now it is quite easy and glib to say he should have done it differently.
Perhaps he should have followed the Bay of Pigs plan, which, by the way, was
suggested by some of the so called neo-cons. Now if you can tell me in specifics
what should have been done to remove Saddam, please do. It it makes sense to me,
I will show you my appreciation.
2987. jexster - 1/14/2004 11:03:36 PM
No it was not necessary for the protection of US interest to remove Saddam
Hussein by an aggressive war that has cost this country far more in blood, in
treasure, in respect, and in influence than it was worth to this country.
And don't kid yourselves, aside from the fact that Bush explicitly
stated that Saddam would not be removed if he came clean (which he had some 8
years earlier), this was never about Saddam nor was it about WMD.
What
it was about, what drove them, was a hairbrained theory of a small cadre of
marginalized intellectuals that (a) we could install a democratic government -
build a wholly foreign polity, and create sufficient stability with indigenous
resources so quickly that by the end of last year we would only have 30,000
troops in country. Then as the fantasy goes, the people of the Middle East would
the great glories of our Made in USA nation and Little Americas would sprout
like the crocus in the winter desert.
In fact, the Administration
only began to push the Iraqi Liberation line with any vigor at precisely the
point they could no longer sustain the "Imminent Threat" lie.
There were
means short of massive invasion and decimation of Iraqi civil government by
which we could have toppled the John Gotti of the Tigris and without question,
before we even set foot on Iraqi soil, it was clear to Bush et al (if not it was
certainly clear to me and countless others) that inspections would likely find
nothing.
This is not a question of humanitarian love for the Iraqi
people. It never was.
It is a question of irresponsible leadership that
used the War Against Al Qaeda as a ruse and in the process compromised what
should have been an unrelenting focus on bringing those responsible to justice.
2988. jexster - 1/14/2004 11:09:11 PM
There is a scene in Truth War that says it all. These neocon nuts were so far
gone in their infatuation with Chalabi (George Washington of Iraq!) and his INC
crowd that they dressed Ahmed in Kafiyeh and robes for his grand entry into
Baghdad until intelligence reported that the people would probably shoot him..
The actual footage can be viewed on line part #6 I think.
2989. jexster - 1/14/2004 11:19:56 PM
Blind and deaf is an apt description of these "leaders" of ours.
CSIS
wrote two lengthy reports on deficiencies and wishful thinking in the
invasion/occupation plan before the first shot.
The Army War College
circulated this gem in February, and yet the Bushies spurned any serious effort
at assembling a genuine coalition and continue to...
We didn't hear this
from the Adminstration did we???
Long-term gratitude is unlikely and
suspicion of U.S. motives will increase as the occupation continues. A force
initially viewed as liberators can rapidly be relegated to the status of
invaders should an unwelcome occupation continue for a prolonged time.
Occupation problems may be especially acute if the United States must
implement the bulk of the occupation itself rather than turn these duties over
to a postwar international force.
They didn't have to be
clairvoyants to come up with that on their own. It was in Rummy's in-box if they
were to blind and dear to figure it out by themselves.
2990. concerned - 1/15/2004 3:56:56 AM
From the Gulf News:
'Saudi teenager survey findings are shocking'
Thursday, January 15, 2004
The findings of a survey of Saudi
teenagers' attitudes toward the sweeping reforms sought by the Kingdom,
published in the London-based Asharq Al Awsat, has been criticised by the
English daily Arab News on Tuesday.
The results of the survey, which was
based on 10 male-only high school classes, "were shocking, puzzling and an
accurate indication of what has developed here over the last 20 years", wrote
Abeer Mishkhas.
"For the most part, the answers - not surprisingly -
reflected an obsession with women, in how they should be treated and their roles
in society.
"One of the students made a surprising statement: he thought
there should be a prison for women who do not follow society's customs; in other
words, he felt that women who do not cover their faces or who wear form-fitting
abayas should perhaps serve two weeks in prison," she wrote.
"Another
student suggested that women's morals should be carefully checked. How I wonder?
And what about men's? And he regretted that women blindly follow Western
fashions and trends. I wonder what he thinks about the jean-clad, baseball-cap
wearing young men who are all over Jeddah."
She lauded the remarks of
one respondent, however, who supported the right of women to drive.
"If
women were allowed to ride camels and horses in the past, then how can we
prevent them from driving cars today? If each one of us reminded himself that
his mother or sister was driving on the same road, maybe we would come to
respect other women a little more than we do," Hamad told Asharq Al Awsat.
2991. concerned - 1/15/2004 3:57:29 AM
Other respondents, such as one called Rami, felt that there should be
increased segregation of men and women in shopping centres and that this should
be done by having different shopping hours for women and men. One 16-year-old
called Adel suggested that young men under 25 should not be allowed to travel
outside the country lest they be corrupted.
"Does he think that Saudi
men only travel abroad to do what they cannot do here in the kingdom?" asked
Abeer. Some of the respondents reflected a certain dislike and intolerance for
non-Muslims.
"A general look at these opinions shows us what our society
suffers from, a fear of the outside world and its effects. Another problem is
the obsession with women as objects that have to be controlled all the time,"
remarked Abeer.
"These are all genuine feelings and comments but there
were others who expressed the need for openness, for broadening perceptions and
perspectives and beautifying the environment."
The idea of women as
chattel is alive and well in the heart of Wahhabi Land. And these are the people
who jexster, in effect, keeps standing up for.
2992. concerned - 1/15/2004 10:46:18 AM
US
to begin drawdown in Iraq
50,000 sounds close to the number of US
personnel that the US probably is intending to pull out of Germany.
2993. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:15:15 AM
Tens of Thousands Take to Streets to Demand End Of Occupation
Puppet Regime and Shiite Democracy
Your Emperor little fuck isn't
he.
We already knew that my little brown bros...Maybe we go
crawfishin together and get each of National Buttholes behind bars for their
crimes.
2994. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:17:42 AM
Our National Butthole
2995. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:26:35 AM
Now who in the name of Allah is the bearded fella he
pointin too?
The average Iraqi Shiite has as little regard for his
occupiers as his Sunni countrymen. It would be a serious mistake to assume that
Shiite quiescence is a sign of approval for the occupation
The Deaf,
the Blind, and Dead Brain Walkin...right into a tar pit
2996. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:27:57 AM
Allahu Akbar TD cause we gonna need Him
2997. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:33:47 AM
I fond this article pretty remarkable. Peter Beinhart is
neojacobin-likootie-in-residence at the New Republic and Peter was no small
measure responsible for the magazine's frothing support of this horrible mess.
He made a proposal for Democrats in the latest issue - hey send some
troops into Pakistan and finish off AlQ and the Talibees (nice idea, Clark has
just proposed a joint US/Nato strike force for just such a purpose). But we
don't have the troop, their in Eyerak dodging RPG's...
But that wasn't
the interesting point. The interesting thing and I think horribly damning
admission is that Iraq had nothing to do with dangers to the US but rather was a
cynical manipulation of US public's desire for revenge...something I have said
since November 2001..
2998. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 11:36:28 AM
Now if you can tell me in specifics what should have been done to remove
Saddam, please do. It it makes sense to me, I will show you my appreciation.
He should have followed through on Blix's proposed six month
inspection plan, and used that time period to put pressure on the security
council to set an ultimatum, enforced by an international coalition, to step
down or be thrown out.
But even in plan he followed--to create pretexts
that he could sell domestically for unilateral action--he should have recognized
that the aftermath was going to be very difficult, and planned for it. The
Fallows article in the Atlantic, like other pieces that have been published, is
very damning. There were people planning for the aftermath. There was
information available, material prepared, involvement of agencies who had dealt
with this kind of thing before.
They were not allowed in the room.
That's an appalling failure.
2999. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:43:46 AM
Peter Beinart better watch it. Some folks might start talkin about the
International Licootie Conspiracy..
All along, the Bush
administration has understood that, while making an empirical connection between
Saddam and the September 11 attacks is hard, making an emotional connection is
easy. Ever since the World Trade Center fell, Americans have yearned to teach
our enemies a lesson, a yearning not nearly sated by the overthrow of the
hapless Taliban. Saddam has been public enemy number one since 1990, a decade
before most Americans knew who Osama bin Laden was. And, by placing him at the
center of its war on terrorism, the Bush administration made him bin Laden's
thematic twin, their ideological differences notwithstanding. So, emotionally at
least, when American troops dragged a humiliated Saddam from his lair, they were
avenging America's humiliation on September 11
3000. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:46:03 AM
Bosom Buddies
Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage
has allegedly been breaking bread with the former Taliban foreign minister. Is
this the administration's new strategy for winning the peace in Afghanistan?
3001. vonKreedon - 1/15/2004 11:48:10 AM
In Message #
2983, Al D asks several compelling questions:
What were the
alternatives to invading and ridding the world of Saddam?
...
Would there have been any reason to keep sanctions on, wouldn't Europe
have insisted they be lifted. How long would it have taked Saddam to re-start
his weapons program?
The alternative was to let the inspection
process continue and to work with the UN to ensure that, should Saddam continue
and increase his cooperation AND that no WMDs were found, that there would be
continued inspections going forward to ensure that Saddam did not then re-start
WMD programs. I believe that, had we worked with the UN instead of bullying it,
France et al would have been very willing to agree to lifting most of the
sanctions, but institute specific anti-WMD sanctions and inspections.
Of
course, this continues to leave us with the problem of Saddam trying to
circumvent these structures, and it leaves Saddam in power over the Iraqi
people. However, it would have allowed the US to focus more effective on
actually combatting terrorist organizations and dealing with other more imminent
threats. It also would have not so completely squandered the international good
will that was directed toward the US post-9/11. Further, this course would have
strengthed the UN, which is or is not a good thing depending on ones views on
global constraints on state power.
(Cont.)
3002. vonKreedon - 1/15/2004 11:48:20 AM
Could he have purchased a few [Nukes] for Korea, or Pakistan, especially
if Musharrif is deposed?
The fate of Musharref should be a central
focus of our anti-terror/anti-WMD policy, and I'm afraid that it is not.
Pakistan is a far more immenent threat to provide al Qaeda with nukes than any
other country. Unlike Iraq, Pakistan actually has nukes. Should Musharref fall
and be replaced either by a radical Islamist government, or by NO effective
governmen, then all bets are off on the security of Pakistan's warheads. This is
another reason for us to have exercised much more restraint and concensus
building that we did.
And to oppose what Bush has done, isn't it
necessary to insist that to remove a tyranical dictator is not an option except
for those under his heal?
In essence my answer is yes. As long as
our global diplomatic system is based upon the sovereignty of nations, then we
have assume that nations have the governments they deserve. This of course does
not mean that we cannot or should not support those who oppose the government,
but it is not our job to impose a different government.
No government
can rule for long without the tacit cooperation of the majority of its citizens.
Saddam and Hitler, as terrible as they were, did not rule by force alone, but
rather were seen as the legitimate ruler by the majority in their country. Now,
wrt to Saddam there is evidence that this may have changed or been changing in
the final years of his regime. We should have supported the opposition, not
imposed a solution.
3003. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 11:50:15 AM
2992
What's the 50,000 number about in your post? in the article,
it's a projection for what sounds like the permanent occupation force.
The drawdown is 9000 from the north, which actually had political
infrastructure in place, due to the enforcement of the no-fly zones. This is not
to minimize the success in the north, which has been widely reported, but it was
an easier problem. The bigger problem is going to be explaining to the Kurds why
their stable, semi-autonomous state needs to be placed under the authority of a
US appointed oligarchy, so that Bush can declare "mission accomplished" in New
York in September.
3004. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 11:54:41 AM
vK
So you think a permanent regime of sanctions would have been
sustainable?
I don't think that's clear. The sanctions, although
weakened by the oil for food program, were causing significant distress for the
population, and were not causing any distress for Saddam. Pollack argues that
before the oil for food program, Saddam was at risk of a coup (which speaks to
your view that there is always something the idea that you get the government
you're willing to tolerate), but that afterwards, the privations were not enough
to drive him out of power.
3005. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 11:57:20 AM
Al
One can continualy harp on the Bush administration for the
invasion of Iraq; let us not forget it was Congress in 1998 that asked for
regime change
Stop watching Fox and read the bill, Al. It's linked
in post 2975.
3006. vonKreedon - 1/15/2004 12:01:02 PM
The 1998 bill was very much in the vein of supporting the Iraqis in effecting regime change, rather than the Bush action of imposing regime change.
3007. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 12:03:30 PM
Or in the event of. That's why I posted the bill. Distorting that bill was
the wingnut^H^H^H^H^H^H^H administration message of the week, in response, I
believe, to the O'Neill book.
And it worked. Boom. Al's on message,
without having been in on the conference calls.
3008. jexster - 1/15/2004 12:12:08 PM
Up to 30,000 Iraqis join pro-democracy protest
January 15, Audio: Washington may have to rethink its plans for Iraq after a
show of support for the Shias' religious leader Ayatollah al-Sistani, reports
Rory McCarthy from Baghdad.
3009. robertjayb - 1/15/2004 12:43:38 PM
Two fine pieces
from Riverbend...Read all...
On Wednesday our darling Iraqi
Puppet Council decided that secular Iraqi family law would no longer be secular-
it is now going to be according to Islamic Shari'a. Shari'a is Islamic law,
whether from the Quran or quotes of the Prophet or interpretations of modern
Islamic law by clerics and people who have dedicated their lives to studying
Islam.
.................................
This latest decision is going
to be catastrophic for females- we're going backwards.
.................................
.................................
People are asking what the reaction is to the claims of the former American
treasurer about Bush planning regime-change before September 11. Why is that
such a shock to Americans? I haven't met a single Iraqi who thinks Iraq had
ANYTHING to do with September 11. The claims were ridiculous and so blatantly
contrived that it was embarrassing to see people actually believed them.
I sometimes wonder how the American people feel. After these last two
wars with Afghanistan and Iraq, do the American people feel any safer? We watch
the 'terror alerts' announced on television- politicians with somber faces and
dramatic pauses alerting the population that at any minute, there might be an
explosion or an attack.
3010. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 1:15:00 PM
Zakaria has spoken in the slate discussion group.
3011. PelleNilsson - 1/15/2004 1:24:03 PM
Now we are discussing alternative ways of getting rid of Saddam, but why? The
question is highly academic. I supported the war because it would achieve that
purpose but certainly Bush's major (overt) motive for the war was to get rid of
Saddam, the threat to the US, not Saddam, the oppressor of the Iraqis. In fact I
think the wet dream of the planners was that Saddam would capitulate in
situ continuing to run Iraq while giving the US free access to the
scientists and technocrats.
So, if Bush had been convinced there were no
WMD the question of removing Saddam for the benefit of the Iraqis would never
have been on the agenda in the first place.
3012. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 1:40:06 PM
No, it is clear at this point that wmd was not a motivating reason for the
administration. It is not clear what was, and of course different players have
different motives. With this group (visualizing the Rumsfeld/Saddam handshake)
I'm sure that the issue was not humanitarian concerns.
I personally
believe that the compelling issue was the need to find a stable mid-east
military and political base to replace the shaky Saudi base.
Alternatively, it was a very audacious attempt to do what the president
has said a few times--to implement the neo-con wet dream of democratic dominoes
in the mid-east.
Neither of these two reasons would have drawn the
support of the American people. It's not clear that they were in the least bit
realistic, either. Time will tell on that, and so far has not been telling a
very good story. And I'll continue to claim that one reason the aftermath is
going so badly is the decision to proceed unilaterally.
Mind you, if
they pull it off, it would be an extraordinary achievement. Establishing a
federal state with an essentially secular constitution with a representative
government would be a very powerful result, even more than the acceptance of
Turkey into the EU (which is also something profoundly to be hoped for).
But these clowns don't stand a chance, especially given how deeply
politically motivated this group is. All that matters--more than the lives of
the soldiers, the lives of the Iraqis, the future of Iraqi children or any other
schmaltzy thing I could think up--is being able to stand up in NYC in September
and proclaim the freedom of the Iraqi people and the newfound security of the
American people.
3013. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 1:41:55 PM
Oh, I left out Rove's reason, which Dantes outlined before he left--that war is a win-win proposition for the republicans. If it goes well, they should be rewarded for their prowess. If it goes poorly, you can't trust those wuss democrats to stay the course. (The latter argument has already been voiced a few times.)
3014. jexster - 1/15/2004 1:59:13 PM
This Means War
Edward Kennedy yesterday gave a rousing
speech against the war:
"By far the most extreme and most dire
example of this Administration's reckless pursuit of its single-minded ideology
is in foreign policy. In its arrogant disrespect for the United Nations and for
other peoples in other lands, this Administration and this Congress have
squandered the immense goodwill that other nations extended to our country after
the terrorist attacks of September 11. And in the process, they made America a
lesser and a less respected land. Nowhere is the danger to our country and to
our founding ideals more evident than in the decision to go to war in Iraq."
3015. jexster - 1/15/2004 2:02:26 PM
So much for Rove's "genius"..better watch out what he asks for, cause he's gonna get it
3016. jayackroyd - 1/15/2004 2:21:53 PM
the response to that is quick and easy. "I'm proud to be president of the
united states where the senator can express opinions like the ones he expressed.
It's because of my commitment to freedom for all people, even those who may
disagree with me, that I believe that I am the most qualified candidate to stay
the course for the future of the Iraqi people and to provide Americans
protection from terror."
Win win.
3017. marjoribanks - 1/15/2004 4:14:54 PM
Thanks for the link to Zakaria's piece, Jay.
I'm pretty strongly in
his camp, and phrased my support for the war (before it began) almost exactly as
he does in his last line:
If we hadn't tried, we can be sure that it
would not succeed and nothing would change.
It was/is one good shot
at rectifying some of the horrible cycle that the ME is in. It should be part of
other moves - the opportunity was and still is historic.
3018. Al D - 1/15/2004 8:17:40 PM
In essence my answer is yes. As long as our global diplomatic system is
based upon the sovereignty of nations, then we have assume that nations have the
governments they deserve. This of course does not mean that we cannot or should
not support those who oppose the government, but it is not our job to impose a
different government.
To be quite honest, I agree. This was my position
before inspectors went into Iraq. We might all be glad that Saddam is gone, but
to invade a country to chance a government is a dangerous precedent. I probably
put most of my thoughts on this over on TPW. But after doing far more reading on
Islamic Fundamentalism and Arabs in general, I am nmore confused than ever on
what is the correct policy. If a threat came from a specific country, the
solution would be easier, but it is from a percentage of individuals in many
different countries. And that problem can only be solved, if at all, within
those countries.
Bush is criticised often for a failure of leadership in not getting some
countries to go along with our policy. But this is more a failure of leadership
within those countries; perhaps this is because they have a large muslim
population. Whatever, it should be obvious to them that we, for their sake as
much as ours, cannot afford to fail in Iraq, but because most of their citizens
are anti-American policy, they do nothing.
3019. vonKreedon - 1/15/2004 8:27:03 PM
Al - I agree that other countries also suffered a failure of leadership.
France could have been much soother and negotiated for a UN led coercive
inspection regime, and potentially the UN would have been strengthened, Iraqi
WMD potential would have been held in check, AND Saddam deposed.
But I
don't live in France, so my thoughts and commentary tend to focus on the
policies for which I bear collective responsibility.
3020. vonKreedon - 1/15/2004 8:28:01 PM
Ooop - ...soother... = smoother
3021. vonKreedon - 1/15/2004 8:35:54 PM
I missed Jay's Message # 3004
So you think a permanent regime of sanctions would have been
sustainable
Certainly not the sledgehammer sanctions that were
initially imposed, but a very specific and strict regime yes. Remember I am
assuming that coercive inspections are occurring and have found nothing for many
months before the UN implementation of such a sanction regimen.
3022. wonkers2 - 1/15/2004 8:52:05 PM
We sustained a regime of containment and deterrance against the USSR for 50 years or so. What's the problem with a little pissant country like Iraq?
3023. Al D - 1/15/2004 9:07:39 PM
wonkers2
While you are correct in one sense, it is too much of a
simplification. You and others seem to totally reject the possibility of a
nation using groups outside national status to further their ends. If we were
sure that UBL was led, fionanced, and directed by Saudi Arabia, not an
impossibility, we could take action against them to end forever his group. If
the attacks come from groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizbollah, the Muslim
Brotherhood, etc., who do we go after? Iran, Egypt, Syria? The threat we face
today is more insane that even Stalin was, and Khrushchev and those who followed
him were totally rational compared to the nuts out there today. U.S.S.R had
something to gain. Terrorists have only destruction in mind.
3024. wonkers2 - 1/15/2004 9:11:46 PM
True enough, but the situation doesn't lend itself to military solutions. International cooperation, better intelligence increased security precautions and more foreign aid and trade are needed.
3025. wonkers2 - 1/15/2004 9:13:45 PM
And development of more effective international institutions to promote disarmament, economic development, democracy, labor rights, health care, etc.
3026. jexster - 1/15/2004 9:27:43 PM
Gen Wesley Clark on the Reckless Use of Military Power
CLARK: I
would simply observe that in 1973, a few years after you and I were out of
college, I was in the Pentagon for a summer as an intern and I wrote a paper on
the
possibility of someday deploying U.S. forces to the Persian Gulf and I
was warned by an old colonel at the time. He said: "Captain, if you write a
paper like that, that
Senator Fulbright is going to have you over testifying
before the Congress and us too and we're all going to get fired," and there were
no U.S. forces in that region in
1973.
Since then, we've encouraged
Saddam Hussein and supported him as he attacked against Iran in an effort to
prevent Iranian destabilization of the Gulf. That came back and bit us when
Saddam Hussein then moved against Kuwait. We encouraged the Saudis and the
Pakistanis to work with the Afghans and build an army of God, the mujahaddin, to
oppose the Soviets in Afghanistan. Now we have released tens of
thousands of
these Holy warriors, some of whom have turned against us and formedAl Qaida.
My French friends constantly remind me that these are problems that we
had a hand in creating. So when it comes to creating another strategy, which is
built around the
intrusion into the region by U.S. forces, all the warning
signs should be flashing.
There are unintended consequences when force
is used. Use it as a last resort. Use it multilaterally if you can. Use it
unilaterally only if you must.
3027. jexster - 1/15/2004 9:39:24 PM
TD - With all this vK erudite discussion goin I didn't want you to think was
ignoring you or your 235th Jex-You-Saddam-Lover post most especially.
A picture worth a thousand words...
Look at Those Two Smilin At Each Other - Love at First Sight!
3028. jexster - 1/15/2004 9:59:07 PM
ABC News Independently Confirms O'Neill Account of Bush pre-9/11 Iraq War Plans
3029. jexster - 1/15/2004 10:17:36 PM
O'Neill's Iraq allegations confirmed
While the White House has
been eager to paint Paul O'Neill as a sore loser, and to some measure succeeded,
this ABC News report confirms his claims that the plan to invade Iraq was in the
works way before 9/11. ABC reports, " The official, who asked not to be
identified, was present in the same National Security Council meetings as
O'Neill immediately after Bush's inauguration in January and February of 2001.
'The president told his Pentagon officials to explore the military options,
including use of ground forces,' the official told ABC News."
And that
may explain Bush's latest half-admission that he indeed was for "regime change"
from the beginning, but then describes his approach as similar to Clinton's
policy.
3030. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:21:53 PM
Freedom of the Press - Bush League Style
PARIS - U.S.
commanders bear "criminal" responsibility in the deaths of two reporters because
they didn't tell troops firing from a tank at a Baghdad hotel that the building
housed journalists — but the soldiers did not deliberately kill the journalists,
a press freedom group said Thursday.
Reporters Without Borders demanded
that the deaths of cameramen Jose Couso, of Spanish network Telecinco, and Taras
Protsyuk, of Reuters, be investigated again.
The Pentagon (news -
web sites) had no immediate comment on the report.
They were killed
April 8 when a U.S. tank fired on the Palestine Hotel, which housed
correspondents covering the U.S. invasion of Iraq (news - web sites). The U.S.
military absolved American forces of wrongdoing, saying they fired in
self-defense.
3031. jexster - 1/15/2004 11:25:05 PM
DEMOCRACY LIES
Here Come the Shiites
No flowers, no
candy....
BASRA, Iraq - Shouting "no to America!" tens of
thousands of Shiite Muslims took to the streets to protest a U.S.-backed formula
for choosing Iraq (news - web sites)'s new legislature.
The protest
came Thursday as an aide to Iraq's foremost Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali
al-Husseini al-Sistani, warned that he might issue a fatwa, or religious edict,
rejecting a U.S.-backed government if his demands for direct elections are
ignored.
3032. jexster - 1/16/2004 11:16:57 AM
Imperial Viceroy Scrambles to Save Plan for Puppet Regime from
Democracy Demands
The Ayatollah says "Stay the Course"
3033. jexster - 1/16/2004 11:49:55 AM
The Imperium is baffled...what is it about "We want democracy you promised"
that they don't understand?
I understand.
Liberation T.
Dantes..he understood (RIP)
After weeks of quiet overtures and secret
letters to Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, administration officials say they are
baffled over exactly what he wants -- and even more confused about what it will
take to get him to back off his demand for direct elections
Oh I
know now...baffled...
They can't figure out how to CORRUPT democracy ...
how much will it take to buy Sistani off.
Typical.
3034. jexster - 1/16/2004 11:51:07 AM
In Baghdad, clerics are circulating CDs of a sermon given by a local
cleric and Sistani follower, Mohammed Yahya, in which he asked: "Does the
occupation authority have the right to express the mission and high interests of
the Iraqi people? This will mean that American policy will control and manage
everything in the country. This will be very dangerous." In the sermon, Yahya
insisted that a future constitution must specify Islam as the basis of Iraq's
identity.
3035. jexster - 1/16/2004 11:52:16 AM
You get it Mr. Yahya ...
Bush lies, people die
3036. jexster - 1/16/2004 12:02:27 PM
If only the Republicans had read the Clark testimony in September 2002, and
the Sludge Fiction in January 2004
Faced
with Disintegration, Cheney Regime Begs UN Help to Salvage Puppet Government
3037. jexster - 1/16/2004 12:02:51 PM
and "not"
3038. PelleNilsson - 1/16/2004 12:06:10 PM
Please outline your ideas on
a)why Sistani makes those demands; and
b)how the mechanics of the transtion should be arranged.
3039. jexster - 1/16/2004 12:16:51 PM
Sistani is making his demands because he wants Shiite power.
And I
think that the situtation is nearly intractable.
I am beginning to agree
with Regis Debray, a viewpoint that frankly had never crossed my mind not even
for a second until a month or so ago...Iraq is headed for disintegration and the
longer we stay, the worse things will get
Therefore, I have to say that
General Clark in 9/2002 and the Army War College in February 2003 were right -
internationalize and withdraw substantial numbers of US combat forces before its
too late.
And I fear it already is.
3040. jexster - 1/16/2004 12:18:36 PM
The Afghan model - heavy political reliance on the UN for the Constitution, though that state is perilously close to the edge as it is, is the best we can do now but insufficient.
3041. concerned - 1/16/2004 12:21:43 PM
I think that Sistani should be marginalized among Iraqis. Many Shiites consider ayatollahs, imams and their ilk as little better than parasites, anyway.
3042. jexster - 1/16/2004 12:22:19 PM
One more thing....
The White House Muppeteer in charge of Democratic
Revolution...shut your pie hole quick
Another thing...
Find a
strong man.
3043. vonKreedon - 1/16/2004 12:55:21 PM
Con - Can you provide evidence to support your contention that "Many Shiites consider ayatollahs, imams and their ilk as little better than parasites"? It does not appear that way from what I have seen. And if instead of many only some regard the Imams et al this way, how would you suggest we go about marginalizing these people? Seems like a dangerours tactic to attempt as it could well simply antagonize the Shia community and solidify support for the Imams et al.
3044. Magoseph - 1/16/2004 1:43:29 PM
U.S. Joins Iraqis to Seek U.N. Role in Interim Rule"
As it begins to reach out for help, and as European nations indicate
that they may provide some, the administration is also considering reversing
itself and allowing businesses in countries that opposed the war, including
France, Germany and Russia, to bid on contracts to rebuild Iraq, officials
said.
The Bush internal polls must have fallen apart for them to
enrage that large segment of their base which is composed of die-hard UN haters.
This will make for interesting watching.
3045. PelleNilsson - 1/16/2004 3:01:08 PM
Sistani is making his demands because he wants Shiite power.
Yes, but Shiite as in religion, not as in people. Contrary to what
concerned claims, Sistani has a big following. In a popular vote the candidates
he endorses will have a big advantage. In the caucus option, by contrast, the
proceedings will be dominated by "notables", i.e. tribal leaders and merchant
families who are less concerned about religious issues.
I think a
popular vote is dangerous at this stage and at any stage in the near future. I
said a year ago that the best that can be hoped for is a pseudo-democracy based
on traditional power structures and I have seen nothing that would make me
change my view.
3046. jayackroyd - 1/16/2004 3:26:19 PM
The standard nation building route is building democratic institutions in
concentric circles. First local councils. Then regional authorities. Then
provincial government. And then national government.
But this kind of
thing can't be done in time for the republican convention. So we are sure to get
something half-assed.
3047. concerned - 1/16/2004 3:35:12 PM
Re. 3045 -
I didn't 'say' what Pelle claims to refute. What I posted
is that many Shiites think that Imams and Ayatollahs are parasites. For one
thing, due to the less than organized nature of Islam, any Muslim who gains a
sufficient following can claim to be an Imam with special authority in
interpreting the Koran and Hadiths, even though Shiism recognizes only one such
valid interpretation. Thus we have a recipe for a Islamic equivalent in some
aspects to the self promoting Christian evangelists who have been so derided in
the US, but since there is little tendency in Islam to separate the secular and
religious spheres, a great deal of internecine religious (and actual) warfare is
characteristic among the cults representing the competing Imams and even
Ayatollahs who tend to grasp at political power.
To such an extent that
rational thought is practicable in such an environment, these religious
'leaders' are often held in contempt, resented and hated among the populace.
However, it should be obvious that it is not safe in nations where these
religious despots have the upper hand for such feelings to be publicly
expressed.
3048. vonKreedon - 1/16/2004 3:38:57 PM
Con - Again, can you cite the basis for your claim that many Shia's hold their Imams etc in contempt?
3049. concerned - 1/16/2004 3:39:45 PM
vK -
I just did.
3050. vonKreedon - 1/16/2004 3:42:18 PM
I see you posting that this is so, but I don't see a citation to a reputable source backing up this assertion. Am I missing something?
3051. PelleNilsson - 1/16/2004 3:45:49 PM
Concerned's observations on Islam is worth less than nothing.
Correct
that. They are worth contempt and ridicule.
3052. concerned - 1/16/2004 3:47:36 PM
It's easy to find the animosities and religious faultlines between the self
proclaimed Imams and Ayatollahs if one learns only a little. It's an absurdity
to pretend that the followers of each of these subgroups don't, at a minimum
believe that the leaders of competing subcults aren't parasites, deluded, or
worse, given the absolutist religious environment that many Muslims inhabit.
Plus, It's hardly reasonable to believe that all Muslims are so stupid that many
wouldn't privately prefer a pox on all the houses of such religious figures.
But, maybe it should be chalked up to the fact that I just have a higher
opinion of the intellectual sophistication of some Middle Easterners than you
do.
3053. concerned - 1/16/2004 3:49:33 PM
Pelle -
Most people who are as ignorant about Islam as you are would
display a more appropriate humility on the subject.
3054. concerned - 1/16/2004 3:50:01 PM
And you are abysmally ignorant about Islam.
3055. concerned - 1/16/2004 3:52:22 PM
Twits like Pelle try to fit the realities of Islam into the Procrustean confines of their socialistic dreamworld and affect to be mortally offended by those who refuse to play along with their fatuous charade.
3056. vonKreedon - 1/16/2004 3:52:23 PM
Con - But seriously, you stated that many Shias have contempt or even hatred for their Imams and Ayatollahs. This is not what I am seeing from consuming news. So, could you please cite the evidence for your statement the Shi'ite Imams etc. are viewed as contemptible parasites by many Shias.
3057. concerned - 1/16/2004 3:55:07 PM
Re. 3056 -
That's not what I posted, although I'm sure that some do.
3058. concerned - 1/16/2004 3:56:14 PM
Re. 3056 -
Explaing to me why you should expect to see that 'from
consuming news'. I wouldn't expect that to be the case at all & I gave some
of the reasons why.
3059. vonKreedon - 1/16/2004 4:01:19 PM
Con, Dude, if your statement is based on a hunch based on what you've seen on
al Jazeera just say so, but this wiggling is unbecoming.
What you said:
Message #
3041: Many Shiites consider ayatollahs, imams and their ilk as little
better than parasites, anyway.
So, I ask again, please cite the
evidence for such a statement.
3060. PelleNilsson - 1/16/2004 4:31:13 PM
Concerned won't cite any evidence because he takes all this stuff off freeper mailing lists.
3061. robertjayb - 1/16/2004 4:35:43 PM
bushies, in a box, seek U.N. help...(Reuters)
UNITED NATIONS - The United States wants U.N. Secretary-General Kofi
Annan to send a team to Iraq to convince Shiites that direct elections are
unfeasible or to suggest a workable compromise, diplomats said Friday.
The request for a fact-finding team was expected to be made by
head of the coalition provisional authority L. Paul Bremer at a crucial meeting
in New York Monday with Annan and members of the U.S.-selected Iraqi Governing
Council during an effort to get the United Nations back into Baghdad.
3062. robertjayb - 1/16/2004 4:48:26 PM
Letmeseehere....bushies favor a faith-based fundamentalist government for the U.S.A., but not for Iraq. Is that about it?
3063. concerned - 1/16/2004 5:20:01 PM
Not at all, but I see what your problem is now.
3064. wonkers2 - 1/16/2004 5:38:20 PM
There's a fascinating long article in the Jan 5 New Yorker by Lawrence Wright
called "The Kingdom of Silence." The author takes a job at a newspaper and gets
a rare look inside a closed society (Saudi Arabia).
As concerned
observed about Iraq, there are plenty of people who resent the rule of the
Islamist fanatics, but they (especially women) are terrified by the "muttawa'a"
Islamic enforcers. Islam is running amok in Saudi Arabia and has strayed far
from original concepts embodied in the Koran. As practiced in Saudi Arabia it's
the most bullshit religion this side of the U.S. deep south.
3065. robertjayb - 1/16/2004 5:42:14 PM
Good. You watch me while averting your eyes from the pathetic sight of your heroes groveling before the once-despised U.N. and all those silly chocolate makers. It will be better for your mental state.
3066. concerned - 1/16/2004 5:57:52 PM
I read that same depressing article a day or two ago, btw (did I link it here?) and what I think is particularly noteworthy is that there is nothing probably that Saudi women can do to keep from eventually getting shoved into chadors if that's what the Wahhabis want, just like the Iranian women have and the Iraqi women might.
3067. concerned - 1/16/2004 6:03:27 PM
Actually, I think Saudi women have already been shoved into chadors.
Where's feminism when it might do some good?
(rhetorical
question)
3068. vonKreedon - 1/16/2004 6:09:19 PM
Con - I'm sure that the chadors will come off as soon as the Imams and
Ayatollahs are tossed out like the parasites so many Muslims believe them to be.
Any day now.
3069. concerned - 1/16/2004 6:19:36 PM
You gotta admit that they're doing Jimmuh Cahtuh, the godfather of Islamic Fundamentalism, proud. Back to the eighth century with an AK47 in every pot. Go, Jimmuh!
3070. jexster - 1/16/2004 7:15:16 PM
The most resounding intelligence failure of the whole intervention era has
certainly been that of accurately assessing Saddam's holdings of nuclear,
chemical, and biological weapons. The US and British governments would not have
gone to war if their intelligence chiefs had bluntly said there were no, or very
few, such weapons or programmes. You cannot spin a No.
But TD,
god love him continues to try...and continues to look foolish
3071. jexster - 1/16/2004 7:16:57 PM
And here I thought TD was a born again supporter of the liberation of the
Moslems of Iraq and the newly formed Islamic Republic (by grace of Allah and thw
Warlords) of Afghanistan!
No I really didn't
3072. jexster - 1/16/2004 7:24:15 PM
But let's try again..
What's wrong with this sentence?
From the
Washington Post: "After weeks of quiet overtures and secret letters to Grand
Ayatollah Ali Sistani, administration officials say they are baffled over
exactly what he wants – and even more confused about what it will take to get
him to back off his demand for direct elections."
We'll translate: What
does he want? Democracy! When does he want it? Now!
Iraqi
Women Protest IGC Edict to Cancel Saddam Women's Rights Laws
Iraqi women have been protesting moves to restrict their rights,
including the Governing Council's decision to cancel laws that are among the
most modern in the Muslim world.
3073. jexster - 1/16/2004 7:28:11 PM
Let's also try a picture just for funzees 
3074. concerned - 1/16/2004 7:41:15 PM
3075. robertjayb - 1/16/2004 7:48:40 PM
Salam Pax blogs on Iraqi political transition...
3076. jexster - 1/16/2004 8:21:37 PM
I will say it again, without fear of contradiction
The Cheney
administration deliberately and maliciously exploited fear and desire for
revenge in the US public and lied consciously lied in every justification
offered for the war in Iraq and in so doing undermined democracy, dimishied US
power, influence and respect in the world
3077. jexster - 1/16/2004 8:23:30 PM
And I'll say it in verse, in large type for the blind and challenge anyone to
prove me wrong...anyone..any time.. 3078. jexster - 1/16/2004 8:30:47 PM
3079. jexster - 1/16/2004 8:31:10 PM
Was I sufficiently clear TD?
3080. jexster - 1/16/2004 8:31:38 PM
BRING IT ON
I shake my bones and I shack them well
When I lie you know you can tell
Chorus:
Liar Liar pants on fire
hanging from a telephone wire
Sqerming Sqerming pants are burning When I lie
my hips start turning.
When I wiggle up and I wiggle down see me twitch
because I 'm a fibbing clown
Chorus:
Liar LIar pants on fire hanging
from a telephone wire
Sqerming Sqerming pants are burning when I lie my hips
start turning.
Squerm Squerm Sqerm...... Squerm Squerm Squerm.......
Chorus:
Liar Liar pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire
sqerming sqerming pants are burning when I lie my hips start turning
Liar Liar pants on fiar.
3081. jexster - 1/16/2004 9:50:29 PM
Appearing on PBS this evening, Juan Cole, Professor of History at the
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor), and expert on all things Iraq....
Cole finds the Sistani Shiite Emergence "profoundly disturbing"
As I have so often said "Watch the Shiites"
Honey, I'm home..the
Shiites are coming! The Shiites have arrived.
Bookmark Juan Cole's Website "Informed Consent"
3082. jexster - 1/16/2004 9:56:12 PM
Cole:"The Bremmer caucus system was always a sham. The provincial assemblies
that form the "electorate" were appointed by the US, they were
disproportionately ex-Baathist sunni, they were corrupt and there have
widespread demonstrations against their misrule.
Now the Shiites are
calling Bremmer on it."
There's your "democracy lie" TD...since you
asked
3083. robertjayb - 1/16/2004 11:38:24 PM
Salam Pax is on Nightline...
3084. robertjayb - 1/16/2004 11:47:40 PM
Salam doesn't seem to have missed many meals due to the horrors of war.
3085. wonkers2 - 1/17/2004 7:17:54 AM
Salaam Pax's blog is fascinating. Iraq is going to be a mess for a long time. The more I learn about Islam the less I like it.
3086. jexster - 1/17/2004 2:18:36 PM
TIKRIT, Iraq - A powerful bomb exploded under a U.S. armored vehicle in the
cane fields north of Baghdad on Saturday, killing three American soldiers and
pushing the U.S. death toll in the Iraq (news - web sites) conflict to 500.
Reaching that threshold underscores the dangers still facing U.S.
forces in Iraq as President Bush (news - web sites)'s administration prepares to
seek help from the United Nations (news - web sites) in building a new Iraq,
after shunning the world organization for months.
3087. robertjayb - 1/17/2004 2:31:37 PM
Hey Kofi, help us out here, will you? All that stuff we
said---just joking. C'mon, How about it?
WASHINGTON (AP) --
The Bush administration is reaching out to the United Nations to help settle a
nagging dispute with Iraqi Shiite leaders about how to choose an interim
government by July 1 so the United States can end its political control of
postwar Iraq.
The senior U.S. administrator in Baghdad, L. Paul Bremer,
and an Iraqi delegation led by Adnan Pachachi, current chairman of the
U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, plan to confer with Secretary-General
Kofi Annan on Monday in New York.
3088. rdbrewer - 1/17/2004 10:59:46 PM
IAEA
Confirms Yellowcake Found in Rotterdam Likely From Iraq
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands — The U.N. nuclear watchdog confirmed Friday
that Iraq was the likely source of radioactive material known as yellowcake
(search) that was found in a shipment of scrap metal at Rotterdam harbor.
Yellowcake, or uranium oxide, could be used to build a nuclear weapon,
although it would take tons of the substance refined with sophisticated
technology to harvest enough uranium for a single bomb.
A spokeswoman
for the International Atomic Energy Agency (search) said the Rotterdam specimen
was scarcely refined at all from natural uranium ore and may have come from a
known mine in Iraq that was active before the 1991 Gulf War.
"I wouldn't
hype it too much," said spokeswoman Melissa Fleming. "It was a small amount and
it wasn't being peddled as a sample."
The yellowcake was uncovered Dec.
16 by Rotterdam-based scrap metal company Jewometaal, which had received it in a
shipment of scrap metal from a dealer in Jordan.
Company spokesman Paul
de Bruin said the Jordanian dealer didn't know that the scrap metal contained
any radioactive material. He said the dealer was confident the yellowcake, which
was contained in a small steel industrial container, came from Iraq.
Jewometaal detected the radioactive material during a routine scan and
called in the Dutch government, which in turn asked the IAEA to examine it.
Fleming said the agency will compare the chemical composition of the
sample to other samples of ore taken from Iraq's al-Qaim mine, which was bombed
in 1991 and dismantled in 1996-97.
She estimated that the Rotterdam
sample contained around 5 pounds of uranium oxide.
. . .
--via Ace-o-Spades'
3089. robertjayb - 1/18/2004 12:18:20 AM
bushie Iraq plan in deep Shiite...(LATimes)
BAGHDAD — The Bush administration has been backed into a corner on
its political plan for Iraq by unexpectedly strident opposition from Shiite
Muslim clerics, who played their trump card last week, calling on their
followers to stage mass demonstrations.
In the next few days, the
administration, along with the U.S.-backed Iraqi Governing Council, plans to
craft a new plan for choosing a transitional government that is more
satisfactory to all the sects and ethnic groups in the country, including the
long-suppressed Shiite majority. But there is every indication that no matter
what shape it takes, the proposal could be unacceptable to crucial political
players.
"The administration is facing problems on all three fronts —
with the Shiites, the Sunnis and the Kurds ... and the situation with the
Shiites is looking more and more like a crisis," said Sheba Crocker, a fellow at
the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. "The
picture could get a whole lot uglier."
3090. jexster - 1/18/2004 2:07:55 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A car bomb exploded outside the main gate to the headquarters
of the U.S.-led coalition Sunday, wounding several Iraqis and at least one
American soldier, a U.S. general said. American officials said there were
"estimates" of 17 Iraqi dead.
The blast occurred at about 8 a.m. near
the "Assassin's Gate" to Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s former Republican
Palace complex, now used by the U.S.-led occupation authority for headquarters.
The gate is used by hundreds of Iraqis employed by the Coalition Provisional
Authority, the formal name of the U.S.-led occupation authorities, as well as
U.S. military vehicles.
3091. jexster - 1/18/2004 2:13:00 AM
Sheba Crocker wrote the damning report cards on Bush war plannning in
Feb/March 2003
She's sharp.
Juan Cole:
al-Hayat reported
that Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani's representative in Karbala, Shaikh Abdul Mahdi
al-Karbala'i, warned that the coming days will witness demonstrations and
strikes, and possibly confrontations with the occupation [Coalition] forces if
they insist on "their colonialist plot and in designing the politics of this
country in ways that serve their interests." Al-Karbala'i called everyone in his
Friday sermon before hundreds of worshippers "to support the religious
leadership," affirming that "the Shiite leadership in Najaf takes a great
interest in the process of transferring sovereignty to the Iraqi people through
general elections....
Shiite clergymen throughout Iraq, including the
shrine cities of Najaf and Karbala and the slums of East Baghdad (Sadr City)
mounted their pulpits on Friday and asked their congregants to support Grand
Ayatollah Ali Sistani's call for general elections in May. It is interesting
that many of these clergymen in East Baghdad are probably followers of Muqtada
al-Sadr, and are supporting Sistani's position. The issue of open, one person
one vote elections, serves to unite Shiites across the board, even bitter rivals
like the Sadrists and the mainstream followers of Sistani. That seems to me bad
news for the Coalition Provisional Authority and its plans to have the new
government elected by hand-picked provincial councils.
3092. jexster - 1/18/2004 2:58:08 AM
A post script to Pincher's discussion...and some points I made at the time..
From the Carnegie Endowment's' "iraq WMD Evidence & Implications"
Key Findings with reference to the relevant pages in body of the report...
3093. jexster - 1/18/2004 2:59:09 AM
Administration officials systematically misrepresented the threat from
Iraq’s WMD and ballistic missile programs, beyond the intelligence failures
noted above, by:
3094. jexster - 1/18/2004 3:05:47 AM
WMD in Iraq: evidence and implications pdf
3095. jexster - 1/18/2004 3:20:57 AM
Rummy didn't give Saddam a BJ in the late 80's because he thought he was
cute and sweet Wonk. He did it for a reason, i.e. the US feared that given the
inherent instability of the Iraqi atate, a loss of any Shiite territory or the
collapse of the power of the central regime would lead to the dismemberment of
the country into Kurd, Sunni and Shiite states which would themselves be
unstable and prone to interference from Turkey, Syria and Iran.
That
two ton shit sandwich the United States has been, is and will be chowing down
for the next few years at least?
That was the reason Rummy had love in
his eyes.
Yet another case of ideology and politics trumping fact and
reasoned analysis.
3096. jexster - 1/18/2004 3:40:10 AM
Lies Have Consequences or Why Ace Moved Into His Spiderhole
Intro to Carnegie Report..
If history is any guide, the
war and subsequent
occupation and reconstruction of Iraq will shape
U.S.
relations with the Arab world—and perhaps
with the whole Muslim world—for
decades,...
What happens in Iraq is also likely to profoundly
affect
whether and with what degree of effort and
success states choose to work
together to constrain the spread of weapons of mass destruction (WMD).
The war and its aftermath will affect U.S. foreign
relations,
influence U.S. policies regarding future armed interventions, and alter the
international struggle against terrorism. It is a massive understatement, then,
to say that a great deal is at stake, on the ground in Iraq, around the world,
and in the lessons for the future that will be drawn here at home.
It is
not too soon to begin this inquiry into the Iraq experience, because public
confusion is widespread and revisionism has already begun.
3097. jexster - 1/18/2004 3:41:21 AM
Some pundits now claim that the war was never about WMD but was undertaken
to bring democracy to Iraq or the entire Middle East. Others say it was a
response to 9/11 or was the necessary answer to a composite threat posed by
Saddam Hussein’s domestic evils, past aggressions, defiance of the United
Nations, and desire for WMD. The administration has adjusted its public
expectation of what Iraq will be found to have had from actual weapons and
massive stockpiles of agent, to weapon programs, to “capabilities,” and even to
the “capability that Iraq sought” for weapons of mass destruction.
Notwithstanding these varied views, the definitive
voice of U.S.
policy—the president’s—was unequivocal that the reason for going to war was the
present threat to U.S. security posed by Iraq’s WMD. From Mr. Bush’s first
detailed case for the war on October 7, 2002, to the declaration of war on March
17, 2003, the purpose is always clear: “Saddam Hussein must disarm himself—or
for the sake of peace, we will lead a coalition to disarm him.”2
Other
than warnings addressed to the Iraqi military and reassurances to the American
people regarding homeland security, the declaration of war address was only
about WMD until the closing paragraphs, which touched on human liberty and a
better future for the Iraqi people.
3098. jexster - 1/18/2004 3:43:24 AM
Stay the course?
What course?
3099. rdbrewer - 1/18/2004 4:11:58 AM
You guys read about the yellow cake upthread? No comment?
I got a
tune in my head. It's that old song, MacArthur Park. I gotta sing!
3100. rdbrewer - 1/18/2004 4:13:22 AM
{Intro}
Whimdees were never waiting in Tikrit.
They ran one step
ahead,
As we followed in the Humvee.
I recall the yellow colored cake
It fissioned alpha rays
On the Geiger counter by the MRE's.
CHORUS:
JayAkroyd's claims are melting in the dark,
All that
glowing green radiation flowing out!
Someone left the cake out in Bahrain.
I don't think that Jay can take it,
'Cause he worked so hard to fake it,
And we'll never have that disagreement again.
Oh, noooo!
{Interlude}
I recall the yellow colored cake.
It fissioned
alpha rays
On the Geiger counter by the MRE's.
It burned the tender
scabies on your hands
And the old men playing checkers by the trees.
CHORUS:
JayAkroyd's claims are melting in the dark,
All that
glowing green radiation flowing out!
Someone left the cake out in Bahrain.
I don't think that Jay can take it,
'Cause he worked so hard to fake it,
And we'll never have that disagreement again.
Oh, noooo!
{Interlude}
Whimdees were never waiting in Tikrit.
They ran
one step ahead,
As we followed in the Humvee.
I recall the yellow
colored cake
It fissioned alpha rays
On the Geiger counter by the MRE's.
CHORUS:
JayAkroyd's claims are melting in the dark,
All that
glowing green radiation flowing out!
Someone left the cake out in Bahrain.
I don't think that Jay can take it,
'Cause he worked so hard to fake it,
And we'll never have that disagreement again.
Oh, noooo!
Oh,
nooOoo!
Noooo no nono
Noooo NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
3101. jexster - 1/18/2004 5:19:06 AM
Yea! Some moldy yellowcake circa 1990 found in a pile scrap metal from Jordan
which may have come from a mine that Iraq closed in 1997....
That's
almost as good as the "tainted" mortar shells that weren't.
The
following post might shed some light on why RD thinks that worthy of borrowed
verse...
3102. jexster - 1/18/2004 5:28:04 AM
He thinks remarkably like Perle & his gang of schizos
Iraq: When the Deaf lead the blind who lead the schziod Tell the
Brain Dead What to Do
REALITY vs. FANTASY.... i just
finished reading Charlie Wilson's War, a terrific book about the covert
CIA war against the Soviets in Afghanistan during the 1980s that I'll have more
to say about later. For now, though, I just want to share an excerpt from the
book that's both timely and enlightening.
First some background. Richard
Perle is one of the most hawkish neocons around, part of the group that seemed
to think that we could waltz into Iraq, be greeted as liberators, and then turn
the whole thing over to their favorite exiles within a few months.
It's
a crazy idea on its face, and it makes you wonder what kind of people could
believe something so transparently out of touch with reality. Well, here's a
hint: they believe stuff like this because they are out of touch with reality.
As you read this anecdote, keep in mind that it's being told by a guy
who is a very hardline, hardass anti-communist. His idea of fun is to figure out
new and better ways to kill Russians, and at the time this is happening he's in
charge of an incredibly creative, brutal, and effective buildup of arms to kill
those Russians in ever greater numbers. But even he thinks Perle and his pals
are loons.
Here's
the story:
And to review and refresh...
The extent of WMD
discoveries to date:
1. A vial of botox in a freezer
2. Empty Mortar
shells buried for more than ten years that had no trace of mustard gas.
3.
20 year old materials on nuclear weapons design buried under a Rose bush since
1991.
4. A mobile hydrogen balloon unit (good for clown shows!)
3103. jexster - 1/18/2004 5:28:32 AM
Close that tag eek!
3104. jexster - 1/18/2004 5:29:42 AM
and that one too...i could use some of that Aunt Condimima Yellow Cake with some of Miss laura's deelish limin icin
3105. jexster - 1/18/2004 5:47:04 AM
Saddam Hussein must disarm himself—or for the sake of peace, we will lead
a coalition to disarm him.
Well I guess he did...he put that
yellowcake (or was it Iraqi??)in a dumpster sitting in the front yard of Basra's
only Okie.
After several years the dumpster's bottom rusted through so
the Okie threw it into the back of his 1972 Chevy pick up and drove to Hassan's
scrap metal, used camel and Cheap Persian Rug emporium just over the line in
Jordan...
From there to Holland and finally to waste disposal in Acie's
Own Little World...
Case of nuts
3106. wonkers2 - 1/18/2004 7:33:11 AM
Great link on Richard Perle! I like the idea of trading him to Iran.
3107. rdbrewer - 1/18/2004 11:37:54 AM
If they set off a Iraqi yellow-cake bomb in your city, are you still going to
point out that it was old (implying that the old yellow-cake is an insufficient
reason to occupy Iraq)?
The half-life is 760 million years.
3108. jexster - 1/18/2004 12:21:48 PM
I am saying that there was no nuclear program. There was some yellowcake 5
pounds possibly from Iraq, if so a leftover from their nuclear program pre-1991
from a mine that was closed in 1997 found in a metal container sold for scrap.
You should give up. David Kay did. Bush has too but he's keepin quiet.
If some folks don't know he lied or forgot or he can convince them he
went to war for other reasons, why should he remind them of the truth?
3109. robertjayb - 1/18/2004 12:27:44 PM
jexster,
You left out the combat marmalade and tactical vacuum
cleaners.
3110. Al D - 1/18/2004 2:59:51 PM
robertjayb
You really like to gloat in everything that is or might be
going wrong in Iraq, don't you. Would it really be a gopod thing for America and
the world for Iraq to become a fucking mess? You are some kind of a strange
dude. Once Pelle asked you why you posted ervery American death in Iraq and I
asked Pelle why he thought you did it. It should be obvious to all, but since
many probably agree with you, it is overlooked. After all, as long as the Dems.
get back in power, what does it matter how.
3111. wonkers2 - 1/18/2004 3:27:37 PM
Al, some of us who opposed our invasion of Iraq from the beginning are entitled to say "We told you so" without being accused of gloating or lacking patriotism. I never believed Iraq had WMD, but after Bush decided to attack I posted in this forum that I hoped we would find WMD. Well, we haven't. After things started to look like a mess I supported the $87 billion appropriation needed to complete what we started. Nevertheless, IMO, Bush's preemptive strike policy was a horrible mistake and the invasion of Iraq was not even an honest and appropriate application of Bush's own policy. Now, more than 500 Americans have died with no end in sight and little chance that the neo-cons fantasy of transforming the Middle East into a democracy will be realized. Moreover, the invasion has increased, not diminished, our exposure to terrorists in the U.S. and around the world.
3112. robertjayb - 1/18/2004 4:07:37 PM
BTW, Al D, did you hear about the big explosion early this a.m. just outside
the U.S. headquarters in Baghdad? All those Iraqis lined up to go to work for
Uncle Sam and they got blowed up---20 or more of them (early reports said a
couple of U.S. soldiers were killed, then the reports said they were U.S
civilians but latest reports said their citizenship is unknown). Say they were
U.S. soldiers or civilians, Al D? How should they be weighed out. Do the
evil-doers get more points for a soldier than a civilian? I've noticed that you
like to ask people what they think so I'm asking you what you think about this.
It may seem an obscure point but I think it has relevance now that the Leader of
the Free World is sending his minions hats-in-hand to the U.N. for help in
getting out of a bloody-awful mess the U.N. warned him about getting into. I
find that embarrassing. Do you find it embarrassing, Al D? Anyway, if the U.N.
did send help, would most of the people be civilians? Are a lot of U.N.
civilians clamoring to go to Iraq? What do you think?
As to gloating, I
am firmly anti-gloating (except in a certain few cases where the bastards ask
for it and deserve to get it, good and hard). I am also anti-lying. But first
and most of all I am anti-bungling.
As to posting deaths of soldiers...I
am surprised you ask about that. Don't you think we should take notice? I
certainly do. I have read that the U.S. death toll this week passed that of the
first four years of the Vietnam experience.
3113. robertjayb - 1/18/2004 4:22:43 PM
After all, as long as the Dems. get back in power, what does it matter
how.
I think it matters a great deal. The position you state is that
of John Mitchell regarding the importance of reelecting Richard Nixon. I would
rather not go that far.
And if the Dems do get back in power I
predict a sigh of relief of such magnitude whistling around the globe that it
may disturb your well-earned rest, Al D.
3114. jexster - 1/18/2004 8:20:10 PM
I rather think the better question is "Why do those who believed everything
that Bush represented to be true, those whom he most played the fool for this
guy, why don't aren' they the ones posting the truth?"
Instead of
variously peddling the lie du jour one day and trying shame critics into silence
the next, why aren't those who played the fool from the get go, angry as hell?
Patriot before the war. Patriot today.
I am sure that many
war opponents have experienced mixed emotions - a twinge of joy, moments of some
self-satisfaction, at being proved right. But I am here to tell ya Al since you
are in no position to know yourself, being proved right so often for so long
gets old. Its not all you crack it up to be.
3115. jexster - 1/18/2004 8:30:44 PM
But the expected just keeps on, keepin on. Shut up and stay the course?
That's hardly very patriotic but then, the Bushies said the same thing
before the war.
Don't worry about my motives or my patriotism. I can
sleep at night.
The administration is facing problems on
all three fronts — with the Shiites, the Sunnis and the Kurds and the situation
with the Shiites is looking more and more like a crisis," said Bathsheba
Crocker, a fellow at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International
Studies. "The picture could get a whole lot uglier." 3116. jexster - 1/18/2004 9:13:33 PM
How many times have I been called anti-American Bush hating Saddam lover?
The moment I hear "I am tired of Bush playing us for fools. I am mad as
hell and I am gonna take it any more."
I'll be all ears.
Meanwhile
Across the Shiite urban strongholds in southern
Iraq last week, clerics close to Sistani prepared their followers for days of
demonstrations and possible violence: "peaceful protests, strikes and, as a last
resort, possible confrontation with the occupying forces," in the words of
Abdel-Mahdi Salami, the senior cleric close to Sistani in Karbala, one of the
two most holy Shiite cities in the country.
"The CPA has to start
learning lessons. We don't want them to learn lessons the hard way, but if they
keep on being pigheaded, they will be hurt," said Mouwafak Rabii, a Shiite and a
member of the Governing Council, who has been present during most of the
council's discussions with Sistani.
"Once the real political process
starts, people grab for power," Carnegie's Carothers said. "They aren't going to
stop — they are just going to keep pushing to see how much they can get. They
know the door is open to a renegotiation of the process."
The Shiites Are Mad As Hell and They Aren't Going to Let Bush Play
Them for Fools No Mo
They want real democratic sovereignty not
Bush's warmed over colonial puppet.
3117. wonkers2 - 1/18/2004 9:16:11 PM
The choices are simple a Shiite theocracy or a protectorate.
3118. jexster - 1/18/2004 9:40:26 PM
Strong man wanted...nice digs, nice pay, some health risk..
The
Shiites will go for something well short of Iranian style theocracy...but Bush's
neocon nirvana...that was ever a fool's errand...that's just more Bush shuck 'n
jive..that's Perle in Afghanistan quality camel shit.
The real problem
is the Shiites can read and they can count to 60%. They are dead right to see
the trap set for them in Bush's run-for-your-lives-who-forgot-the-exit-strategy
farce election year farce of self rule.
Whether Iraq can absent a strong
man ever secure some semblance of stability..well Saddam was certainly a
sadistic butcher and bone headed megalomaniac, but he was no accident. He didn't
just come from hell and appear suddenly in Iraq for no reason.
3119. jexster - 1/18/2004 10:03:14 PM
3120. jexster - 1/18/2004 10:04:13 PM
Why the US
is running scared of elections in Iraq
Washington's plan to
transfer power without a direct vote is a fraud
God damn...what a
shock!
Robespierre Bush - Democratic Revolutionary and Nation Builder
caught lying again.
3121. jexster - 1/18/2004 10:23:46 PM
At least in Iowa, the Democratic party caucuses involve elections. Not in
the US plan for Iraq. The US is proposing that "notables" in each province
attend these caucuses to appoint an assembly which would select a government.
Not surprisingly, the Shia leadership smells a rat. After generations of being
excluded from power, first by the British occupiers in 1920, and then by
successive Sunni governments up to the one led by Saddam, they are angry.
Gee, I wonder why.
The Iraqi Shiites: On the
history of America’s would-be allies
3122. wonkers2 - 1/18/2004 10:30:24 PM
After the dust settles Iraq will be a theocracy. Or we'll have to stay there for a long time. Or some kind of a UN protectorate will have to be established.
3123. marjoribanks - 1/18/2004 10:40:39 PM
When the dust settles, Iraq will be a kind of protectorate and will remain
one for many decades.
I'm guessing that there will be an oligarchy, of a
sort, with nods given to elections. But economic power will be consolidated in
the hands of a few score individuals and families and all of these will be
die-hard pro-American behind the scenes.
And the US Army will be going
nowhere, for a very very long time. Even if Clark wins, even if Kerry wins, but
maybe possibly not if Dean wins.
3124. jexster - 1/19/2004 12:26:01 AM
Dean is publically committed to troops but all will need a strong man sooner
or later ot am I being too pessimistic?
The latest on the Big Shiite
Move from Prof. Cole...Forget the ancient Bernard Lewis and Tom Friedman columns
make fine birdcage liner
But it comes to Middle Eastern History recent
or other that fella Cole knows his onions
3125. jexster - 1/19/2004 12:26:21 AM
Two parallel reports from Baghdad, one from Alissa Rubin of the LA Times
and one from Hamza Hendawi of AP, point to the increasing difficulties the US is
having in satisfying the Kurds, Sunni Arabs and Shiites in Iraq.
Rubin
[reg. req.] emphasizes the dissatisfaction of the Sunni Arabs, and the ways in
which the UN might step in to mollify the Shiites. I am quoted expressing
pessimism about Sistani's flexibility.
Hamza Hendawi of AP reports from
Najaf that an anonymous administration official told him that "there will be no
new plan" on Iraqi elections. He says, however, that the present plan will be
tinkered with in hopes that will make it acceptable to Grand Ayatollah Sistani.
Hendawi, who quotes me on Sistani, reports enormous anger among Sunni
Arabs about the prospect of Shiite rule. But that is what any sort of democracy
would produce.
What I don't understand is why they don't just have
elections for two houses of parliament. Go back to the old Saddam scheme of 19
provinces (he had created an extra one for Sunnis) and give each province 2
senators. Such a senate would slightly over-represent Sunnis and might help
mollify them and convince them that the Shiite-dominated lower house would not
be able to excercise a tyranny of the majority. Another benefit of such a
province-based senate is that it would give Kurds an incentive to want several
provinces instead of just one.
I am hearing rumors, purportedly coming
out of Najaf, that there will be big Shiite demonstrations throughout Iraq this
coming Friday. One reason I am pessimistic that Sistani will back down is
precisely that he has gone to the streets. He must have known that crowds will
be hard to rein in if some basic modicum of his demands are not met, even if he
himself is willing to compromise.
3126. jexster - 1/19/2004 12:48:26 AM
Remember The Young Ayatollah Sadr? He represents the Khomenist faction and
contrary to CPA propaganda his is one of the loyal followings best organized in
the country. Sistani was widely assumed to be a go along get along push over
with no interest in politics. Sistani did the CPA a big favor a few months back.
He was able to quiet down Sadr.
I bet they cut a deal...why that's the
democratic thing to do!
Though Sadr is distinguished by his radicalism
and the fact that unlike Sistani Shiites he wants a full on theocracy. The two
find common ground in 1) distrust and opposition to the Occupation and indeed
the US presence 2) they both agree on that an Iraq must be an Islamic State. The
only thing separating them is the role of the clergy and of course, each wants
to be Numero Uno in Najaf.
About 60% in a recent pols want either an
Islamist/Democratic but non-secular state or theocracy. Sistani has the majority
of that.(Iff polls mean anything Iraq)
There's your deal...Bush unites
them...the uniter not the divider strikes again
3127. robertjayb - 1/19/2004 12:49:35 AM
WARNING: Engage anti-gloat, Disable We-Told-You-So: WMD scam harming foreign policy...(WashPost)
The Bush administration's inability to find weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq -- after public statements declaring an imminent threat
posed by Iraqi President Saddam Hussein -- has begun to harm the credibility
abroad of the United States and of American intelligence, according to foreign
policy experts in both parties.
In last year's State of the
Union address, President Bush used stark imagery to make the case that military
action was necessary. Among other claims, Bush said that Hussein had enough
anthrax to "kill several million people," enough botulinum toxin to "subject
millions of people to death by respiratory failure" and enough chemical agents
to "kill untold thousands."
3128. robertjayb - 1/19/2004 1:16:27 AM
Wary U.N. may help with U.S. tangle in Iraq...(WashPost)
U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan is prepared to try to help the
United States salvage its Iraq strategy, despite more than a year of rancorous
relations over the country, largely due to his deep concern about the potential
for a political implosion in Iraq, according to senior U.S. and U.N. officials.
But Annan, who is also wary of U.S. motives, intends to ask some tough
and specific questions in talks with L. Paul Bremer, the U.S. governor of Iraq,
and the Iraqi Governing Council at their meeting today in New York, U.N.
officials say. The key is how much authority the United States is willing to
cede on policy, a critical issue because the United Nations does not want to be
used simply to give credibility to the troubled U.S. plan to hand over power to
Iraq by June 30.
3129. jexster - 1/19/2004 11:51:39 AM
The UN doesn't want to give crebility to Bush....what a segue! We're cookin
with Lousiana Natural Gas today
TD might not believe he lied, people die
But the rest of the planet does
Bush's WMD Lies
9 of 10 Bipartisan FP Experts Agree: Bush
Lies Hurt US
The Bush administration's inability to find weapons
of mass destruction in Iraq (news - web sites) -- after public statements
declaring an imminent threat posed by Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web
sites) -- has begun to harm the credibility abroad of the United States and of
American intelligence, according to foreign policy experts in both parties.
Intelligence on loan from EddieD
3130. jexster - 1/19/2004 11:56:06 AM
THIS does not HAVE to be you! 
3131. jayackroyd - 1/19/2004 12:10:37 PM
3099
I saw the source. 'nuff said.
3132. jexster - 1/19/2004 12:15:24 PM
"The foreign policy blow-back is pretty serious," said Kenneth Adelman,
a member of the Pentagon's Defense Advisory Board and a supporter of the
war>. He said the gaps between the administration's rhetoric and the
postwar findings threaten Bush's doctrine of "preemption," which envisions
attacking a nation because it is an imminent threat.
The doctrine "rests
not just on solid intelligence," Adelman said, but "also on the credibility that
the intelligence is solid."
Ladies and gentlemen, forty
years ago almost to the day an important Presidential emissary was sent abroad
by a beleaguered President of the United States. The United States was facing
the prospect of nuclear war. These were the days of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Several emissaries went to our principal allies. One of them was a
tough-minded former Secretary of State, Dean Acheson whose mission was to brief
President De Gaulle and to solicit French support in what could be a nuclear war
involving not just the United States and the Soviet Union but the entire NATO
Alliance and the Warsaw Pact.
The former Secretary of State briefed the
French President and then said to him at the end of the briefing, I would now
like to show you the evidence, the photographs that we have of Soviet missiles
armed with nuclear weapons. The French President responded by saying, I do not
wish to see the photographs. The word of the President of the United States is
good enough for me. Please tell him that France stands with America.
Would any foreign leader today react the same way to an American
emissary who would go abroad and say that country X is armed with weapons of
mass destruction which threaten the United States?Zbigniew
Brzezinski
3133. jexster - 1/19/2004 12:22:46 PM
The administration "rid the Iraqi people of a murderous dictator, and rid
the world of a menace to our future peace and security," Vice President Cheney
said in a speech last week. Cheney -- and other U.S. officials -- increasingly
point to Libya's decision last month to give up its weapons of mass destruction
as a direct consequence of challenging Iraq.
Bush, when asked by
ABC's Diane Sawyer why he said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when
intelligence pointed more to the possibility Hussein would obtain such weapons,
dismissed the question: "So, what's the difference?"
I
suggest that the D brothers, T, E, and R jointly write a letter to their
President and explain to him what the difference is.
3134. jexster - 1/19/2004 12:34:19 PM
Jessica T. Mathews, president of the Carnegie Endowment and co-author of
Iraq WMD: Evidence & Implications
she said there is
intense interest in the report's findings, with 35,000 copies downloaded from
the think tank's Web site in just five days. "It is too soon to say there was no
cost" to the failure to find weapons, she said. "I think there is a huge
appetite for learning about this."
Looks like quite a few people
hit my links..
Say anyone know whether Ace has it up yet???
3135. jexster - 1/19/2004 1:33:00 PM
A nagging question maybe only a Bushie can answer...
The Shiites want
democracy now
Bush says there's no time
Shouldn't we make time
if there is none???
Isn't Bush our Democratic Revolution Leader???
Or was he lying again?
3136. jexster - 1/19/2004 1:41:19 PM
Operation Iraqi Freedom II - Tens of Thousands of Iraqis Hit the
Streets to Demand Democracy 
3137. jexster - 1/19/2004 2:01:44 PM
Juan Cole, PhD, Middle Eastern & South Asian Studie, Big Blue has some
pretty good sources I'd say
100,000 Angry Shiites Take It
to the Streets 
3138. jexster - 1/19/2004 4:25:53 PM
Well fancy that. Sistani and I aren't the only one's who smell a rat...
If it slinks like rat, if stinks like a rat...It must be Georgie
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The United Nations (news - web sites)
considered a request from Iraqi leaders and the U.S. administrator on Monday to
send a mission to Baghdad that might salvage plans for putting a provisional
government in place by July.
But U.N. Secretary-General Kofi
Annan (news - web sites) told reporters further discussions were necessary
before he could make a decision on sending what he called a "technical" team
immediately
3139. robertjayb - 1/19/2004 4:41:33 PM
Any speculation on why the bushies sent the boy Bremer on this U.N. mission alone. No room on the plane for Condi, Colin, or the LOFW himself?
3140. vonKreedon - 1/19/2004 5:25:19 PM
LOFW?
3141. vonKreedon - 1/19/2004 5:26:18 PM
Lesser Of Four Weevils?
3142. vonKreedon - 1/19/2004 5:27:02 PM
Lemming Out For War?
3143. judithathome - 1/19/2004 5:27:51 PM
Lord of Fort Worth?
3144. wonkers2 - 1/19/2004 5:29:18 PM
He may be grooming Bremer to take over from Powell as Secretary of State in
the unlikely event he is re-elected.
Powell's prostate cancer may be a
factor in a decision not to re-up. I didn't see any statements about it saying
that it was caught in a very early stage as was announced in the case of Kerry.
This is sheer speculation.
3145. arkymalarky - 1/19/2004 5:31:16 PM
Duh, y'all. It's "Leader of the Free World!"
OR is it Lord of the
Fascist World?
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
3146. judithathome - 1/19/2004 5:34:51 PM
> Powell's prostate cancer may be a factor in a decision not to re-up
As opposed to the fact he is finding it hard to look himself in face
while shaving or that he is made sicker by what is happening than what the chemo
is doing to him?
3147. judithathome - 1/19/2004 5:35:39 PM
I wish we could indent with that little caret thingy....
3148. vonKreedon - 1/19/2004 5:51:33 PM
J@H - Try this, replacing the [ ] with angle brackets:
[ul]
>
indented
[/ul]
Result:
3149. wonkers2 - 1/19/2004 6:51:00 PM
When all is said and done Bush is going to wish he had Sadaam Hussein instead of the Shiites. I heard on the radio today that the Governing Council or whatever they call it passed a resolution demanded by the Shiites that takes away rights that Iraqi women have had for years under the Baath government. How do they think we or the UN or anyone is going to control those "Sharia fanatics?"
3150. jexster - 1/19/2004 7:50:22 PM
Message # 3139
Can't send Cheney...too high a level at this point besides Cheney hates
this deal and will kill it...
But no matter how academic the answer is
simple....Annan would trust any of the regular Bushies as far as he can spit and
neither should he.
3151. jexster - 1/19/2004 7:51:58 PM
Wonk is now confirmed Regis Debray Decompositionista
If the US
does not leave soon, the blowback will make some long for the days of Saddam
Hussein Roughly
3152. jexster - 1/19/2004 7:52:32 PM
Kofi "would not"
3153. jexster - 1/19/2004 9:03:21 PM
3154. jexster - 1/19/2004 9:16:35 PM
Brits Fuck Bush in Basra
The Independent reports that
100,000 demonstrators marched through the streets of Baghdad on Monday, as part
of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani s bid to put pressure on Kofi Annan and the
United Nations to certify that free and fair elections can be held: This
situation reminds me more and more of Algeria; where mass protests played a
similar role in involving the UN.
posted by Juan Cole at 1/20/2004 01:33:45
AM
British Say Open Elections Feasible
The Financial
Times is reporting that British authorities in Basra now believe that there are
no procedural obstacles to holding open elections in Basra of the sort that
Grand Ayatollah Sistani has called for: Whether this is true or not, it is hard
to see the British announcement as anything but payback for the way the CPA has
ordered them about like lackeys since the fall of Saddam. The statement puts Mr.
Bremer in a very difficult situation.
The British may in part been
driven to this announcement by pure fear. They appear to have upped their
estimate of the number of protesters last Thursday from 30,000 to 3 to 10 times
that.
posted by Juan Cole at 1/20/2004 01:16:04 AM
3155. Al D - 1/19/2004 11:05:49 PM
robertjayb
There is really very little point for you and I to discuss the
war in Iraq, but since you asked what I think about what is going on in Iraq, I
will express my opinion. I am happy the Saddam is no longer in power, and I
think in the long run, and in the short run, Iraqies are better off. America is
in a war not of our choice against Islamic extremists and terrorists. What is
happening is not much different than what happened in Germany after WWII. People
are being killed, both Americans and Iraqies, and that is the price that is
being paid. No one should be happy about that, except the terrorists. Our will
can be weakened, and would be if Cassandras like you had your wish.
Perhaps one of the biggest mistakes made is that we declared victory too
early. Perhaps we should have continued to bomb the cities where we knew the
Baathist melted into until there came out with a white flag and surrendered. Of
course, 10's of thousands might have died, but 100's might not be killed now.
And I do not retract my statement that you gloat over every failure in
Iraq, because that is what you obviously wish for. Of course you will keep
insisting otherwise.
3156. robertjayb - 1/20/2004 12:10:42 AM
Riverbend broods
over Sharia...
My head has been spinning these last few days
with decision No. 173 on changing Family Law to Shari'a. I've been darkly
mulling over the endless possibilities. I'm not the only one- everyone I talk to
is shaking their head in dismay. How is this happening? How are we caving in to
fundamentalism?
.................................
I'm torn on the
topic of elections. While I want elections because it's the 'democratic' thing
to do, I'm afraid of the outcome. All the signs lead one to believe that
elections will lead to a theocracy (which I dread). The current GC is *not*
representative of the Iraqi people- neither Sunnis nor Shi'a approve of them…
but will elections bring about a more representative group of would-be leaders?
Furthermore, what if the Iraqi 'majority' *do* want a theocracy like the one in
Iran? If the choice boils down to a democracy styled like the one in America or
a theocracy styled like the one in Iran, how do you think a Muslim country is
going to choose?
For more info on Al-Sistani, check out his site- it's
in Arabic, Farsi, English, French and Urdu... quite impressive. His biography is
here: Sistani's Biography and for those who were *very* interested in temporary
marriage, check this out.
3157. robertjayb - 1/20/2004 1:55:52 PM
3158. robertjayb - 1/20/2004 2:07:10 PM
"Hat-in-hand," to U.N...(WashPost)
The Bush
administration's plans for post-war Iraq never envisioned anything like
yesterday's meeting in New York. U.S. officials asked for the United Nations to
help extricate the United States from a country it liberated from Saddam
Hussein's thuggish tyranny just nine months ago. The guarded response of U.N.
Secretary General Kofi Annan, as reported by The Washington Post, only
underscores how much U.S. policymakers have lost the ability to control events
in Iraq, according to international online commentators.
3159. jayackroyd - 1/20/2004 3:21:45 PM
But that is what you want isn't it? UN involvement, greater international participation, and so forth?
3160. jexster - 1/20/2004 3:42:32 PM
Has he no shame?
"I am a long way at this stage from
concluding that somehow there was some fundamental flaw in our intelligence,"
Vice President Dick "Praetorian Guard" Cheney said in an interview with USA
TODAY and the Los Angeles Times from his undisclosed location, the first
he's given to a newspaper in two years. Cheney suggested that biological weapons
are hard to find because they could be produced on short notice. "The stuff is
perishable and doesn't last very long anyway," he said. But, he added,
intelligence is "never perfect. It's rarely 100% complete." Uh-huh.
3161. PelleNilsson - 1/20/2004 3:55:15 PM
As of now Kofi is calling the shots. He has played it very cool.
3162. concerned - 1/20/2004 3:59:46 PM
Disengaged is a better word.
3163. concerned - 1/20/2004 4:24:26 PM
The primary question is whether the UN is even capable of successfully playing more than a nominal role in Iraq, humanitarian assistance aside, given the UN's demonstrated skittishness in the face of terrorist attacks.
3164. concerned - 1/20/2004 4:44:24 PM
It also looks, from rjb's link, as if France and Germany are attempting to manipulate both the UN and the US in Iraq in order to gain lucrative Iraqi business contracts.
3165. jexster - 1/20/2004 6:30:14 PM
Democracy - The Last Lie to Die as Bush Tries to Intimidate His Way
Out
BAGHDAD, Iraq - If an influential Shiite cleric sticks to his
demand for early legislative elections, then the coalition may turn sovereignty
over to the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, coalition and Iraqi
officials said Tuesday.
Transferring power to the Governing Council was
among options under study if the United Nations (news - web sites) fails to
convince Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani that early elections are not
feasible, coalition officials told The Associated Press on condition of
anonymity.
3166. jexster - 1/20/2004 6:33:19 PM
With Shiite's holdin the key to Iraqi stability in one hand and a big shit
sandwich in the other, the Cheney regime is no position to be making threats
Of course, concerned has no business yammering either, certainly on the
subject of Iraq
3167. jexster - 1/20/2004 6:34:11 PM
certainly "not"
least of all whatever...
an insult to the
intelligence
3168. jexster - 1/20/2004 6:42:25 PM
And speaking of corruption...The Cheney Regims sets the gold standard!
Outrage Mounts in GB Over Iraq war whistleblower Case
GCHQ worker Katharine Gun faces jail for exposing American corruption in
the run-up to war on Saddam. Now her celebrity supporters insist it is Bush and
Blair who should be in the dock. Martin Bright reports
3169. jexster - 1/20/2004 7:59:37 PM
Marj, sucker for the Raj....your little brown bro Fareed sends his regards...
There really should be no contest.
On one side is history's
most awesome superpower, victorious in war, ruling Iraq with nearly 150,000
troops and funding its reconstruction to the tune of $20 billion this year. On
the other side is an aging cleric with no formal authority, no troops and little
money, who is unwilling to even speak in public. Yet last June, when Grand
Ayatollah Ali Sistani made it known that he didn't like the U.S. proposal to
transfer power to Iraqis, the plan collapsed. And last week, when Sistani
announced that he is still unhappy with the new U.S. proposal, L. Paul Bremer
rushed to Washington for consultations. What does this man have that the United
States doesn't?
Legitimacy
3170. jexster - 1/20/2004 8:08:52 PM
The Cheney threat to turn over power to a naked puppet rather than a clothed
one, of the collossally stupid moves they have made in propagandizing, planning,
and executing this disaster, surpasses all the rest.
The Shiites do not
trust the US who applauded while Saddam gassed them and left while Saddam
slaughtered them. They don't trust the British who gave Sunnis dominionn over
them and sure as hell they don't trust Bush who is desperately scambling for an
election year ass covering at their expense.
What a stupid move. What an
incompetent bunch of liars.
3171. jexster - 1/20/2004 8:16:52 PM
There Goes the AlD/OsamaB big bad horsie theory of brown control
VIENNA, Austria - Western diplomats and nuclear experts voiced
growing concern that Iran has reneged on its promise to fully suspend uranium
enrichment — a process that can be used to make nuclear weapons.
3172. jexster - 1/21/2004 11:27:58 AM
3173. jexster - 1/21/2004 11:56:35 AM
Tens of Thousands Take to the Streets to Demand End to Puppet
Regime, Iraqi Trial of Hussein
Da noive!
The last thing
Bush wants is a trial that will expose the contribution of current Bushies to
the gassing of his own people!
What do they think this is about?
Truth, Justice and the American Way?
3174. jexster - 1/21/2004 12:55:40 PM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Shiites staged a third straight day of protests against US
plans for Iraq (news - web sites), as US and Iraqi leaders again snubbed their
key demand for general elections ahead of a June power transfer 
3175. jexster - 1/21/2004 12:56:00 PM
A nagging question maybe only a Bushie can answer...
The Shiites want
democracy now
Bush says there's no time
Shouldn't we make time
if there is none???
3176. PelleNilsson - 1/21/2004 1:20:06 PM
You conveniently forget that´there are big problems associated with the Shia version of democracy.
3177. wonkers2 - 1/21/2004 1:27:05 PM
True. They want democracy until they get elected.
3178. vonKreedon - 1/21/2004 1:38:11 PM
Pelle/Wonk - Do we know that the Iranian theocracy is a "Shia version of democracy"? It is certainly possible to view Sistani's call for a direct popular vote through the lense of power politics, but is there any reason to do so other than Iraq's Shia majority and the presence of the Iranian Mullah's next door? I don't know, does anyone have any evidence?
3179. wonkers2 - 1/21/2004 1:43:35 PM
Didn't Sistani call for Sharia to be the law of the land. From what I've seen Sharia isn't particularly democratic. Looks to me like it will be payback time for the Shiites against the Sunnis and the Kurds. Not to mention the Christians and other small groups. Not to mention the women.
3180. PelleNilsson - 1/21/2004 3:18:50 PM
Yes, Wonkers. If an election on the one man one vote principle would be held in Iraq the Shia would win. But the Sunni and the Kurds would certainly boycott an election on those premises. And where are we then?
3181. wonkers2 - 1/21/2004 3:49:17 PM
Starting a western style democracy from scratch after a few thousand years of tribalism and 50?years of strongman rule is no piece of cake.
3182. vonKreedon - 1/21/2004 3:59:44 PM
I'm searching and not finding evidence that Sistani, or the Iraqi Shiites in
general, are calling for the Iranian model. See Role of
Religion in Iraqi Politics
Contrary to common understanding, the
religious revival in Iraq started more than a decade ago. [...] The government
printed and distributed five million copies of the Quran, built large and
expensive mosques (principally Sunni), and in 1994 Sharia was introduced into
the Iraqi penal code.
...
The most important of these is Grand Ayatollah
Ali Muhammad Sistani. Sistani does not advocate an Islamic republic or
Iranian-style clerical rule. But he does believe that the religious leadership
should be closely consulted on critical political issues. The current stalemate
over the process of elections and constitution writing has arisen largely
because the CPA's latest plan came as a surprise to Sistani who then strongly
opposed it.
Sistani and other Shia leaders who oppose an Islamic
republic nevertheless want a form of democratic government that gives full
expression to the Shia demographic majority. Moreover, they want Islam to play a
role in the new forms of governance. There is probably no way to avoid a clause
in the Iraq constitution stating that Islam is the state religion, which is part
of constitutions throughout the Arab world and has been included in all previous
Iraqi constitutions. This will leave open the question of just what this
provision means in practice. Sistani will probably also propose that Sharia be
one of the sources of Iraqi legislation.
3183. vonKreedon - 1/21/2004 3:59:55 PM
Regarding Sharia as state law (a tangental question to the imposition of
Iranian theocratic democracy), the IGC already seems to be well on its way
toward this already, so I'm not sure how caucuses are going to change this
dynamic. See WP
article.
It seems to me that unless the CPA's caucus plan is in fact
rigged, the Shi'ite majority is going to end up in power and Sharia will be
implemented anyway. Am I missing something?
3184. wonkers2 - 1/21/2004 4:02:07 PM
Bush the nation builder.
3185. vonKreedon - 1/21/2004 4:05:01 PM
Ok, I goofed in Message # 3182, there is a large Shiite party, SCIRI. Sistani is not a member of this party.
3186. jexster - 1/21/2004 6:37:54 PM
That's OK may Obe-Juan Cole be with you.
Poor Turks, day late dollar
short....I have the feeling Bremmer already cut this deal...
ANKARA,
Turkey - Kurdish control of an autonomous area in a future Iraqi state would
threaten the stability of the country, a view shared by northern Iraq (news -
web sites)'s neighbors, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said
Wednesday.
Erdogan, in an exclusive interview with The
Associated Press, said he will raise those concerns when he meets President Bush
(news - web sites) at the White House on Wednesday.
Turkish leaders
have repeatedly said they fear that expanding Kurdish self-rule in northern Iraq
could lead to the country breaking apart and could threaten the stability of
Iraq's neighbors, which has sizable Kurdish minorities.
"Let me be
open and very frank with you," Erdogan said. "Any federal system based on
ethnicity is not going to be healthy and will damage the future of Iraq."
"This is the idea that is emerging in countries like Iran and Syria
as well," Erdogan added.
Let's put yet another check in the Debray
Decomposition Column - a blowback so stupendous, it will make some long for
Saddam
3187. jexster - 1/21/2004 6:41:58 PM
vK...you won't find evidence that Sistani favors the Iran model because he
doesn't. Sadr does. They both agree on an Islamic state but differ on the
Twelfth Jurisprudent.
I highly recommend Prof Cole's The Iraqi
Shiites: On the history of America’s would-be allies
It is
simply and by far the single best authoritative article I have seen on the
subject.
3188. jexster - 1/21/2004 6:49:29 PM
Bush Doomed? Will He Spend Eternity Eating Shiite Sandwiches? and
three other articles of interest appear in DNI Comment: Who Is
Grand Ayatollah Sistani
If Bush delivers on his democracy
promise, the Shi'ites with 60% of the population will be elected, and the
country will break out in civil war. If he tries to water down Shi'ite
representation with his plan for an assembly elected indirectly by caucuses, the
so far peaceful Shi'ites are likely to join the violence.
...
The US military is already so thinly stretched that soon 40% of the
occupying troops will be drawn from the National Guard and reservists, resulting
in tremendous disruption in the affairs of tens of thousands of families.
Pilots and troops are shunning the cash bonuses offered for
reenlistments. The troops recognize a quagmire even if their neocon overlords
cannot. The only source of troops is the draft.
...
All of this
was perfectly clear well in advance of the ill-considered invasion. If Bush
wasn't smart enough to see it, why didn't his National Security Advisor or his
Secretary of State? How did a handful of neocon ideologues hijack US foreign
policy
Bush did not campaign on a neocon policy of conquest in the
Middle East. There was no public debate over this policy. The invasion of Iraq
was the private agenda of the neocons.
...
Bush, desperate to be
extricated before doom strikes him is experiencing a reality totally different
from the chest-thumping of neocon megalomaniacs, such as Charles Krauthammer,
who declared the US so powerful as to be able to "reshape, indeed remake,
reality on its own."
Bush now knows that he lacks the power to deal with
the reality of Iraq. Indeed, Bush cannot even deal with his own appointees.
3189. OhioSTOPAS - 1/21/2004 6:52:32 PM
Young Jonah Goldberg in his most recent syndicated column (appearing
yesterday in the Columbus Dispatch, Columbus's finest daily newspaper):
"For Bush to have lied [about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction],
he had to have known that there were no WMD's right?"
So when Bush (and
others) said there was "no doubt" Iraq had WMD's, that statement is only a lie
if he was sure there were NO WMD's? Saying something is 100% probable is only a
lie if you KNOW it is 0% probable?
Man. That's quite a stretch, even by
conserv/Repub standards. (How'd this guy get his job, anyway? Did his mother get
it for him or something?)
3190. jexster - 1/21/2004 6:53:02 PM
Oh hell....at the risk of some twit Marji-nizing me with this post, I will be
bold.
We're not going to see a stable, democratic Iraq inside 10 years
and perhaps not in our lifetimes.
3191. jexster - 1/21/2004 6:54:41 PM
That's MAMA's boy!
3192. jexster - 1/21/2004 9:04:43 PM
By way of American preemptive wars, the Commander of the American Armed
Forces decided to go to war on Iraq and topple its regime. Afterwards, the
search for the reasons behind this decision began because all the rhetoric
concerning Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction and its threat to
national security and relation with Al Qaeda turned out to be false.
Consequently, more convincing reasons should answer the American voter's big
question: When and why did the President make that decision?
Yet, the
more central and pressing question is: Is Iraq truly a united and coherent state
whose division should be averted? Or is it actually divided and its unity should
be sought after?
Iraq... United Or Divided?
Adel Malek Al-Hayat
3193. jexster - 1/22/2004 7:13:36 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Three US soldiers were killed and another wounded near
Baquba, while four Iraqi women going to work at a US base were mown down by
guerrillas, the US military and survivors revealed.
The violence
came as the bloody insurgency, fighting to stay alive after the December 13
capture of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), sets its sights more and more on
civilians working for the US-led coalition.
3194. jexster - 1/22/2004 7:28:44 AM
Occupational hazards 3195. Magoseph - 1/22/2004 8:30:47 AM
I reposted your last link in Election 2004 to better effect. Do you want to
hire me, Jex?
3196. jexster - 1/22/2004 11:09:26 AM
I hear the Likud party's lookin for talent..either in its NH field op or in
Jerusalem if you have legal experience 3197. jexster - 1/22/2004 11:12:55 AM
We must keep on topic even if TD refuses to...
It is not just the Shias.
Iraqis of all political, ethnic and religious persuasions want their country
back
Dead Because Bush
Lied
2
G.I.'s Killed as Security Is Seen as Obstacle to Iraq Vote
The real barrier to speedier elections is the continuing
violence, as even American generals now acknowledge.
3198. jexster - 1/22/2004 12:35:33 PM
The Big Shiite Sandwich; We're Just Getting a Peek into Hell
NAJAF, Iraq - The country's top Shiite Muslim cleric would be willing to
drop his demand for early legislative elections if Iraqi and U.N. experts agree
such a ballot would not be feasible.
Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini
al-Sistani would also want to hear "alternatives" for choosing a new assembly..
Al-Mawsawi said the ayatollah wants to make sure the U.N. experts do not
"stay in a Baghdad hotel" and issue their findings but travel around the country
The aide said al-Sistani was adamant that sovereignty must be
transferred to Iraqis by July 1, as the coalition plans. If the impasse over
choosing a new government cannot be resolved by then, al-Mawsawi said there were
several options, including handing over sovereignty to the U.S.-appointed Iraqi
Governing Council.
Coalition spokesman Charles Heatly said
transferring power to the council, however, was not under serious study.
During the lecture, al-Mawsawi launched into a scathing attack on
the Nov. 15 agreement. Al-Mawsawi said the agreement between the coalition and
Governing Council was announced in the middle of consultations between
al-Sistani and the council.
The aide said the ayatollah believes the
main danger of the Nov. 15 formula is that it "will take us from one quagmire
of illegitimacy to another" because the members would not be chosen by the
Iraqi people.
Al-Sistani believes that only an elected leadership
will have the degree of public acceptance needed to guide the country through
the difficult transition from Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s dictatorship
to democracy, the aide said.
The aide also said al-Sistani fears
that the transitional government to be chosen through the caucuses might try to
remain in office...
3199. jexster - 1/22/2004 12:35:43 PM
"A transitional government must be built on a sound basis," al-Mawsawi said.
"If the basis is not sound, then what comes after will also be unsound."
"A government like that can turn around and tell us that for
security, regional and international circumstances, it will extend its terms for
several years."
3200. jexster - 1/22/2004 3:04:40 PM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - A wave of attacks left US soldiers and Iraqi policemen and civilians dead in their wake, as a senior US commander warned of a looming threat from both nationalists and foreign fighters.
3201. jexster - 1/23/2004 8:54:20 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A bomb planted in a meeting room exploded after a meeting of
the Iraqi Communist Party, killing two men in an an apparent attack on
supporters of the U.S.-backed government, officials said Friday.
If as
AL would have it, posting US death makes me ghoulishly Anti-american, and by
implication, him a patriotm, then it follows that this makes me ghoulishly
anti-communist, and him Red.
Right AL?
And as for the slobbering
slerb supporter TD, we all know that Saddam sent Slobo advisers to try an shoot
down our planes, so that takes care of his "concerns"
3202. jexster - 1/23/2004 10:06:34 AM
This ain't from no "ashamed" Euro Elites
This ain't from no liburul
Bush hatin media
This is from The State, "South Carolina's
Newspaper"
The Regis Debray Decomposition... 
CIA warns of civil war in Iraq
In contrast to Bush’s optimism,
officers say tensions mounting
WASHINGTON — CIA officers in Iraq
are warning that the country might be on a path to civil war, current and former
U.S. officials said Wednesday, starkly contradicting the upbeat assessment
President Bush gave in his State of the Union address.
The CIA officers’
bleak assessment was delivered verbally to Washington this week, said the
officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
3203. wonkers2 - 1/23/2004 10:56:25 AM
Great article in this month's Atlantic about how Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Bremer totally fucked up the occupation of Iraq. Rumsfeld comes off particularly poorly as an arrogant asshole.
3204. wonkers2 - 1/23/2004 10:57:17 AM
Add. the long, carefully researched Atlantic article was by James Fallows.
3205. jexster - 1/23/2004 1:57:07 PM
Democracy, Bush Style
United Nations officials, European
diplomats, American officials and Iraqi leaders say there is a growing
conviction that Ayatollah Sistani has realized that he has considerable power to
get his way and cannot be circumvented.
The fear among many is that if
he opposes the caucus process, especially with a religious decree, he could
effectively prevent the caucuses from being carried out. Some experts say that
the ayatollah is mainly interested in gaining power in Iraq, not in democracy,
and that he could be bought off in the process.
3206. jexster - 1/23/2004 2:00:00 PM
Link coming next month
The Indispensable Nation
Regis
Debray
Harper's is weird....that was in last month's print ed..
3207. jexster - 1/23/2004 2:20:58 PM
Operation Iraqi Freedom???
Not For Women
The Imperal
Governor has approved puppet IGC legislation repealing the most progressive
women's rights legislation in the Middle East.
From now on, women who
want to work or marry must have the approval of muslim clerics
ALLAHU
AKBAR suckers
3208. Al D - 1/23/2004 3:14:48 PM
f as AL would have it, posting US death makes me ghoulishly Anti-american,
and by implication, him a patriotm, then it follows that this makes me
ghoulishly anti-communist, and him Red.
I know from personel experience that you don't really care if you make
sense or not, but the above is beyond silly. It is not that I consider you or
almost all who are against the war as anti-American. I consider your opposition
to the war simply political. You npot only believe that democracy is impossible
in Iraq, but you hope you are right. I believe that is almost impossible for
democracy to take hold in Iraq and I hope I am wrong. I think wonkers hopes I'm
wrong, even if it would help Bush, or am I thinking of wombat.
I printed out that article by Cole and am now off to read it. Thanks.
3209. judithathome - 1/23/2004 3:36:07 PM
Add. the long, carefully researched Atlantic article was by James
Fallows.
That's an excellent article.
3210. wonkers2 - 1/23/2004 4:21:14 PM
You are correct AlD. Nothing would make me happier than to see the terrorism stop immediately and for democracy to flower in Iraq. As you, I am skeptical that it will happen. Beyond that, I think the invasion was a big mistake based on doctored, exaggerated, erroneous claims about the threat posed by Iraq to the U.S. or other countries in the area. The actual situation in Iraq did not fit Bush's preemption policy, and the invasion inflamed our enemies in the Middle East and did not further our war on terror (I don't like the term "war on terrorism" because it implies that conventional warfare is the answer, which it is not. Aside from Bin Laden, our promises to Afghanistan remain unfulfilled and we are in a big mess in Iraq, resources stretched to the breaking point. Sooner or later Americans will realize how poor Bush's, Cheney's, Rumsfeld's, et al, leadership has been and not reelect him to a second term.
3211. judithathome - 1/23/2004 4:25:28 PM
For a good start on realizing that, they should have watched PBS' Frontline last night on the hunt for Saddam's alleged WMDs. It was excellent and even David Kay, who had supported the war earler and done a lot to push the idea that weapons were over there, ended up referring to the "proof" as "straws of evidence".
3212. wonkers2 - 1/23/2004 4:27:49 PM
Bush has backed down from weapons to programs. Cheney still thinks they are there.
3213. jexster - 1/23/2004 4:30:25 PM
Breaking News, On topic, On Time
Ex-Inspection Chief Kay Says Bush Lied
He has the
blood of thousands on his hands...
Bush lies, Americans die
And
if that's not bad enough, we are just beginning to reap the whirlwind of the
biggest foreign policy disaster in US history.
Mark my words - again
3214. jexster - 1/23/2004 4:30:45 PM
Real patriots should be mad as hell
3215. jexster - 1/23/2004 4:33:10 PM
I don't wish to be unfair but some might say that a certain someone is more
interested in Bush's political fortunes than in the lives of US servicemen or
the interests of this country....
Some might say that, not me of course
3216. vonKreedon - 1/23/2004 4:35:57 PM
Bush has backed down from weapons to programs. Even worse,
"...weapons of mass destruction related program activities." Not even
full WMD programs, but activity within programs with some relation to WMD.
Man, I sure am feeling safer now.
3217. judithathome - 1/23/2004 4:41:38 PM
ISG analysts were diverted from hunting for weapons of mass destruction to
helping in the fight against the insurgency, Kay said.
Evidently
whoever sent him over there decided there was not much hope of finding any,
either...why else divert the people searching away from what they were doing?
3218. wonkers2 - 1/23/2004 4:42:14 PM
Right, "program activities." Someone should ask him to define the term.
3219. judithathome - 1/23/2004 4:45:10 PM
They will extend that term in a few weeks to be "weapons of mass destruction program activities which might have occured to them at some future point in time".
3220. jexster - 1/23/2004 5:01:15 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. Army OH-58 Kiowa Warrior helicopter attached to the 101st Airborne Division crashed Friday in northern Iraq (news - web sites), killing the two pilots, the U.S. military said
3221. wonkers2 - 1/23/2004 5:01:24 PM
Ha!
3222. wonkers2 - 1/23/2004 5:01:38 PM
Sad but true!
3223. jexster - 1/23/2004 5:08:40 PM
Case Closed:
Cheney Cites Leaked Intelligence on Iraq-Al Qaeda
In an interview this month, Vice President Dick Cheney touted a
report and leaked classified document that the Administration itself has billed
"inaccurate" as the basis for his Iraq-Al Qaeda claims.
When questioned
about his assertion of a Saddam-Al Qaeda connection, Cheney said, "you ought to
go look [at] an article that Stephen Hayes did in the Weekly Standard here a few
weeks ago, that goes through and lays out in some detail, based on an assessment
that was done by the Department of Defense and forwarded to the Senate
Intelligence Committee some weeks ago. That's your best source of information."1
But the article and document Cheney cites was discredited by the
Administration as "inaccurate" two months ago, at the time it was published. The
Administration also criticized the leak, saying, "Individuals who leak or
purport to leak classified information are doing serious harm to national
security; such activity is deplorable and may be illegal."2
The Defense
Department is not the only agency objecting to the accuracy of the claim. Cheney
raised the connection again yesterday, saying, "There's overwhelming evidence
there was a connection between al Qaeda and the Iraqi government. I am very
confident that there was an established relationship there."3 But Secretary of
State Colin Powell disputed the idea two weeks ago, when he admitted, "I have
not seen smoking-gun, concrete evidence about the connection."4
3224. jexster - 1/23/2004 5:08:54 PM
Today's Los Angeles Times reports that improved intelligence has revealed
neither the Iraqis nor Al Qaeda trusted one another enough to establish a
relationship. September 11th lead planner Khalid-Sheikh Muhammad, the
highest ranking Al Qaeda official in custody, has revealed that Al Qaeda saw
Iraq as a "corrupt, secular regime."5 Last week, the New York Times reported
that documents indicated Saddam Hussein warned his followers to "be wary of
joining forces with foreign Arab fighters entering Iraq."6
3225. jexster - 1/23/2004 5:10:53 PM
The Cheney Regime strategy is clear...and just Paul O'Neill described it...
Continue to feed the brainwashed "Base" and hope that they hold up
against the barrage of truth until Election Day when it won't matter what they
believe..
Or anyone else for that matter
3226. jexster - 1/23/2004 5:15:45 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S.-backed plan for handing over power to Iraqis is unacceptable as it stands, according to a top Shiite Muslim leader who met with President Bush (news - web sites) this week.
3227. jexster - 1/23/2004 6:20:05 PM
WASHINGTON - The CIA (news - web sites) named a new inspector to lead the search for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction Friday, choosing a veteran investigator who has expressed recent skepticism that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) possessed banned weapons that posed an immediate threat.
3228. arkymalarky - 1/23/2004 7:01:37 PM
Rumsfeld comes off particularly poorly as an arrogant asshole.
Really? I'd have thought he'd come off particularly well as one.
3229. jexster - 1/23/2004 7:06:51 PM
School teacher
3230. jexster - 1/23/2004 7:09:45 PM
Concern about the founding fathers of Iraq are ya TD??
Don't be..
The Neocon's "George Washington of Iraq" Ahmed of Arabia Pressures
Bush for Democracy
Even rats know enuf to jump when the ship is
sinking...
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A leading pro-U.S. member of Iraq
(news - web sites)'s Governing Council on Friday called for direct elections
before a July handover of power, urging Washington to give in to popular demand
because its transition plan could destabilize the country.
Ahmad
Chalabi, who has close ties to the Bush administration, said elections were
possible, increasing pressure on Washington to change its stance that there was
no time to organize a vote
3231. arkymalarky - 1/23/2004 8:57:20 PM
Gee, Jex, you really hit below the belt there. ;-)
3232. wonkers2 - 1/23/2004 9:35:42 PM
Maybe Cheney suffered brain damage from his heart attacks/surgery??
3233. jexster - 1/24/2004 8:06:31 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two American soldiers were killed on Saturday in a roadside bomb attack on their convoy near the volatile town of Falluja, the U.S. Army said.
3234. jexster - 1/24/2004 8:42:25 AM
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=483202
target=new>Kurds Turn Against Bush As He Renegs on Autonomy
Promises
The Independent reports: "Iraqi Kurds, the one Iraqi
community that has broadly supported the American occupation, are expressing
growing anger at the failure of the United States and its allies to give them
full
control of their own affairs and allow the Kurds to expel Arabs placed
in Kurdistan by Saddam Hussein. Massoud Barzani, the leader of the Kurdistan
Democratic Party, told The Independent in an interview that the Kurds had been
offered less autonomy 'than we had agreed in 1974 with the
regime of Saddam
Hussein'. There are the seeds here for a savage ethnic conflict. The Arabs and
Turkomans in Kirkuk are frightened. Many of the Arab settlers have been there
for more than a generation and it is not clear where they would go. The last
year has seen a number of small-scale but bloody clashes."
3235. jexster - 1/24/2004 8:48:07 AM
LINK - He Lied to the Kurds, Kurds Pissed, Debray Decomposition
Proceeds Apace - Big Shiite Sandwich
Note to AL- The US IS
getting into a deeper and deeper mess and you can learn all about it right here.
"AND YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH,
AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE" -
MOTTO
ENTRANCE LOBBY
CIA
HEADQUARTERS
LANGLEY, VA
Home of the Langley High Mighty
Saxons
3236. jexster - 1/24/2004 9:01:59 AM
Looks like the truth is "relevant" across the pond
New WMD
blow for Blair
Survey chief resigns saying Iraq never had
stockpiles
Never RD, as in not ever, at least not since
1991 which is essentially what Scott Ritter said.
The RNC and its
moronic minions around here of course immediately slandered him, impugning his
patriotism(Fancy that AL you old bag of methane you!) and accusing him of having
been on Saddam's payroll.
3237. jexster - 1/24/2004 10:16:42 AM
Speaking to Reuters after his departure was announced, Kay voiced deep
skepticism that the administration's prewar claims that Iraq was hiding large
caches of illegal munitions would be validated
Follow
the Yellowcaked Road
The Los Angeles Times
3238. jexster - 1/24/2004 1:08:28 PM
JANUARY 19, 2003 3239. rdbrewer - 1/24/2004 1:15:03 PM
Walking for stupidity.
3240. judithathome - 1/24/2004 1:16:23 PM
Because god knows, what we really need in this world is more WAR.
3241. jexster - 1/24/2004 1:25:18 PM
Walking because we refused to be led down the primrosed path of yellowcaked
lies 3242. jexster - 1/24/2004 1:26:08 PM
SAN FRANCISCO,
CA 
Walking against lies, against corruption, against death...
Walking to keep 500+ US soldiers alive
Walking to keep the limbs
on thousands
Walking so that tens of thousands of Iraqis might live
Walking to stay out of a tar pit, a hell that we've just had a first
glimpse of
Walking to keep this country true to its principles and out
of a preventive war of choice
Walking so that the US would not make one
of the worst foreign policy blunders in its history
Walking because we are patriots not parrots
3243. jexster - 1/24/2004 1:31:54 PM
Forrest Gump: Stupid is as stupid does.
3244. judithathome - 1/24/2004 1:51:04 PM
So, is it true that the total death countof US soldiers does not include those wounded who die later at hospitals out of Iraq? That those wounded who are sent to Weisbaden or Landstuhl or back to the US and die of complications later are not "counted" as fatalities?
3245. vonKreedon - 1/24/2004 2:31:39 PM
Walking because we are patriots not parrots
Oooh, that is a
sweet pithy line for a sign! I hope to make use of it.
3246. jexster - 1/24/2004 2:55:17 PM
I dunno JAH..we're not supposed to think or speak of those who die..
3247. rdbrewer - 1/24/2004 3:30:41 PM
"Walking because we are patriots not parrots"
Oooh, that is a
sweet pithy line for a sign! I hope to make use of it.
Why? They're
all parroting one another. You don't see independent-minded people showing up
for groupthink spirituality rallies and herd identification posturing and
display fests. When have you ever seen a throng of Libertarians chanting
something--or just a throng of Libertarians, for that matter? These people are
being guided by their penguin motivator neurons. So they are parrots. They have
an instinctive need to stand around together, imitating one another, all
squawking and strutting alike to get that feeling of affirmation and security in
numbers.
3248. rdbrewer - 1/24/2004 3:37:27 PM
But the penguins are better dressed.
3249. arkymalarky - 1/24/2004 3:49:37 PM
When have you ever seen a throng of Libertarians chanting something--or
just a throng of Libertarians, for that matter?
No wonder they never
get anywhere in politics. That's kind of like the Monty Python race for people
with no sense of direction. Who wins?
3250. judithathome - 1/24/2004 3:55:01 PM
You don't see independent-minded people showing up for groupthink
spirituality rallies and herd identification posturing and display fests.
Sure you do...at a Republican Primary or in the audience for a Rush
Limbaugh appearence. At least they claim to be thinking independently; I
seriously doubt their claims but whatever.....
3251. robertjayb - 1/24/2004 7:50:27 PM
The butcher's bill grows...
(CBS/AP) Iraqi
insurgents struck Saturday in the volatile Sunni Triangle west of Baghdad,
killing five U.S. soldiers in separate bombings and narrowly missing an American
convoy with a blast that killed four Iraqis and wounded about 40 others north of
the capital.
...as
the lies unravel...
TBLISI, Georgia Jan. 24 — Secretary of
State Colin Powell held out the possibility Saturday that prewar Iraq may not
have possessed weapons of mass destruction.
Powell was asked about comments
last week by David Kay, the outgoing leader of a U.S. weapons search team in
Iraq, that he did not believe Iraq had large quantities of chemical or
biological weapons.
Who wants to be next to die for the glory of
the bushie dynasty?
3252. wonkers2 - 1/24/2004 11:34:47 PM
If Powell were Japanese he would be falling on his sword out of shame. I guess that's not part of our culture. McNamara claims in Fog of War that he became disillusioned about our war in Vietnam, but he had no answer when Errol Morris asked him why he didn't speak out after Lyndon Johnson sacked him from Secretary of Defense. The resemblance between McNamara during Vietnam and Rumsfeld today is uncanny.
3253. arkymalarky - 1/24/2004 11:43:07 PM
I guess that's not part of our culture.
That would require him
to host a program on Fox or talk radio.
3254. robertjayb - 1/25/2004 12:33:56 AM
Pssst! Wanna' see our new plan?
WashPost---The
Bush administration has produced a list of possible changes for Iraq's political
transition, with some U.S. and British officials acknowledging for the first
time that the original plan could even be scrapped altogether if the United
States is to preempt the growing clamor for election.
....................................
The administration insists
there is no sense of panic, despite the mounting opposition to the current U.S.
transition plan.
....................................
....in a sign
of how much control the United States has lost since the Nov. 15 accord, U.S.
officials concede that the most important calculations in ending the political
crisis will be the positions of two players excluded from the original
agreement: the United Nations and an aging ayatollah who has not left his home
in six years.
..................................
Already, the
preeminent body of Sunnis, the Association of Muslim Clergy, has come out
against elections. Sunni clerics have used their Friday prayer sermons to make
clear they will not give in to a plan that ends up with Shiite domination -- and
that all methods of resistance will be allowed to prevent it.
Panic may be an entirely appropriate response...
3255. jexster - 1/25/2004 10:06:20 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An American soldier died on Sunday following a rocket-propelled grenade attack in Iraq (news - web sites), the latest in a series of weekend ambushes that had already killed five U.S. troops and four Iraqi civilians.
3256. robertjayb - 1/25/2004 11:21:57 AM
Unintended Consequences of Unheeded Warnings...
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The top U.S. military commander in Iraq said
Sunday there was evidence ties might be growing between al Qaeda and Saddam
Hussein loyalists waging a bloody insurgency in the country.
....................................
Such an alliance would be a new
one. The secular nature of Saddam's Iraq ran counter to the radical Muslim views
of groups like Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda.
....................................
3257. wonkers2 - 1/25/2004 12:02:20 PM
That's just great. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Riceroni, Wolfowitz have created an Iraqi-Al Qaeda alliance where none existed before!! Talking about blow-back! First in Afghanistan, now in Iraq.
3258. judithathome - 1/25/2004 12:12:59 PM
toys?
3259. jexster - 1/25/2004 12:43:55 PM
3260. jexster - 1/25/2004 12:47:56 PM
Grand Ayatollah Sistani's Website
3261. rdbrewer - 1/25/2004 12:50:11 PM
3262. rdbrewer - 1/25/2004 12:51:22 PM
undercover brothers
Hey, Jex, how 'bout those penguins!
3263. jexster - 1/25/2004 12:56:37 PM
Message # 3247
BOOMEr
SOONER
Boomer Sooner, Boomer Sooner,
Boomer Sooner, Boomer
Sooner,
Boomer Sooner, Boomer Sooner,
Boomer Sooner, OK-U!
Oklahoma, Oklahoma,
Oklahoma, Oklahoma,
Oklahoma, Oklahoma,
Oklahoma, OK-U!
I'm a Sooner born,
And a Sooner bred,
And
when I die
I'll be Sooner dead!
Rah, Oklahoma! Rah, Oklahoma!
Rah, Oklahoma! OK-U!
3264. rdbrewer - 1/25/2004 1:02:00 PM
oxymoron of the day: Libertarian rally
3265. judithathome - 1/25/2004 1:20:01 PM
Little Point in WMDs Search
...The sharp change in
emphasis by the CIA-directed Iraq Survey Group follows the admission on Friday
by its outgoing leader, Dr David Kay, that his 1,000-man organisation had not
found evidence of stockpiles, and that he now believed they had never existed.
The CIA has announced that Kay will be replaced by Charles Duelfer, a
former senior weapons inspector, who has said that in the past that the Bush
administration's prewar allegations on Iraq's weapons were 'far off the mark'.
'My goal is to find out what happened on the ground. What was the status of the
Iraqi weapons programme? What was their game plan? What were the goals of the
regime? To find out what is the ground truth,' said Duelfer.
In a deeply
embarrassing reverse for both the Bush administration and Tony Blair, Duelfer
indicated on Friday that he regarded his primary task as attempting to
reconstruct a 'complete, credible and openly demonstrable picture of what Iraq
had, what their programmes were and where they were headed' before the war.
3266. rdbrewer - 1/25/2004 2:44:50 PM
Who is to blame?
Asked whether he feels President Bush
owes the American people an apology for starting the war on the basis of
apparently flawed intelligence, Kay said: "I actually think the intelligence
community owes the president rather than the president owing the American
people.
"You have to remember that this view of Iraq was held during the
Clinton administration and didn't change in the Bush administration. It is not a
political `got you' issue. It is a serious issue of how you could come to the
conclusion that is not matched by the future."
"It's not a political
issue. Its an issue of the capabilities of one's intelligence service to collect
valid, truthful information."
And, as PincherMartin points out
elswhere, "[T]he intelligence community is not an objective observer when
critiquing the Bush administration's handling of the intelligence, that they
might have good reasons to play up the White House's culpability in the
fiasco[.] Kay makes the point briefly and somewhat obliquely, but well."
(All quotes Molly Ivinsed with permission.)
3267. robertjayb - 1/25/2004 5:48:58 PM
What horseshit! The bushies got the lies they demanded. Now it is easy to see why they don't want a world court. They would be hauled before it for sure. Maybe it's just me but I think flim-flaming a good part of the world into an unnecessary war is criminal and if we don't boot their sorry asses out of office then we deserve them.
3268. rdbrewer - 1/25/2004 8:43:02 PM
The bushies got the lies they demanded.
It's interesting how
Kay can be both upheld and rejected depending upon utility in the moment.
3269. jexster - 1/26/2004 5:24:41 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military lost its fifth helicopter this month in
Iraq (news - web sites), which crashed in the Tigris river while searching for a
soldier whose boat had capsized. The aircraft's two crew members and the soldier
remained missing Monday.
"We have no news about the progress of the
search" or the fate of the missing service members, a military spokeswoman at
the central command in Baghdad said Monday.
3270. jexster - 1/26/2004 5:44:42 AM
When they didn't get the lies they demanded, they made shit up.
The
emblishments, misrepresentations, and out right lies are documented in the
Carnegie Report up thread.
THe most damning part of Kay's interviews
tell of his conversion from a WMD believer when he started to his present view
that no weapons existed after 1991.
The Cheney Regime repeatedly assured
the public and the Congress that it would make the decision for war only upon
the best intelligence that Saddam had failed to disarm.
UNMOVIC was
very close to discovering the truth of Kay's epiphany months earlier and without
the subtanstial costs to US power, security, lives and dollars.
The only
reason that $700 million search continues is that Bush wants to postpone
investigation into how he managed to perpetrate such a collosal fraud until
after the election.
Ironically, Tom Daschle initially proposed that the
Senate not consider the Iraq War Resolution until after the 2002 election just
as Bush I requested and Congress granted in Gulf War I. Tragically Daschle caved
in the face of Bush's relentless warmongering/mid term election campaign.
3271. jexster - 1/26/2004 8:49:33 AM
"T]he intelligence community is not an objective observer when critiquing the
Bush administration's handling of the intelligence, that they might have good
reasons to play up the White House's culpability in the fiasco[.] Kay makes the
point briefly and somewhat obliquely, but well."
Kay didn't make the
point briefly or obliquely. Kay didn't make that point at all or even come close
- certainly not in that quote and from what I gather from the reviews, not in
his report either.
Did you read your post?
Yes the CIA is not an
impartial observer. So what? There must be more. Try as I might, I can't connect
one dot.
3272. jayackroyd - 1/26/2004 9:23:41 AM
3268
So which is it for you, rdb? Upheld, or rejected?
3273. jexster - 1/26/2004 10:25:33 AM
Blix said the United States should have known the intelligence was flawed
last year when leads followed up by U.N. inspectors didn't produce any results.
"I was beginning to wonder what was going on. Weren't they wondering
too?" he told The Associated Press by telephone. Speaking of Kay's resignation,
Blix said, "If you find yourself on a train that's going in the wrong direction,
its best to get off at the next stop."
3274. quakeii - 1/26/2004 10:28:23 AM
"Maybe it's just me but I think flim-flaming a good part of the world into an
unnecessary war is criminal and if we don't boot their sorry asses out of office
then we deserve them."
robertjayb--
I'm afraid the American
voting public will prove that they indeed deserve them in ten months.
3275. judithathome - 1/26/2004 10:31:42 AM
I agree with Quakeii.
3276. robertjayb - 1/26/2004 11:06:28 AM
Yes, I fear we lack the wisdom of Hans Blix:
"If you find yourself
on a train that's going in the wrong direction, its best to get off at the next
stop."
3277. robertjayb - 1/26/2004 11:11:22 AM
Riverbend has trouble sleeping---and doing laundry...
3278. jexster - 1/26/2004 11:28:08 AM
He should be thankful he doesn't live here:
Tensions Bring Kirkuk's Ethnic Meltiing Pot to a Boil
US Officials Fear Kurd Nationalism Will Spark Nationwide Civil
War
3279. jexster - 1/26/2004 11:31:17 AM
Why do you think I would deserve an elected George Bush robert?
3280. jayackroyd - 1/26/2004 9:34:58 PM
rdb, still waiting for a response to 3272. Should Kay be relied upon, or not,
in your view?
3281. jexster - 1/26/2004 10:46:03 PM
David Kay is no fool..he's a Company Man....Company Cover for Operation Bush
Root and Branch...
The MO interview is identical to MO Kay report. Its
also Company SOP...Tenant's pattern is no different...
Daming with faint
praise with a CIA twist...Damning with feint praise...
Follow
carefully...so devilishly clever it is almost Asiatic!
ITEM 1 -
Kay's Conversion..Arsenic and Old Cake
WASHINGTON - The White
House retreated Monday from its once-confident claims that Iraq (news - web
sites) had weapons of mass destruction, and Democrats swiftly sought to turn the
about-face into an election-year issue against President Bush (news - web
sites). The administration's switch came after retired chief U.S. weapons
inspector David Kay said he had concluded, after nine months of searching, that
Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) did not have stockpiles of forbidden weapons
and its WMD production likely ended in 1991. Asked about Kay's remarks, White
House spokesman Scott McClellan refused to repeat oft-stated assertions that
prohibited weapons eventually would be found.
McClellan said the
inspectors should continue their work "so that they can draw as complete a
picture as possible. And then we can learn — it will help us learn the truth."
Kay, meanwhile, was called to appear at a public hearing of the
Senate Armed Services Committee (news - web sites) on Wednesday and agreed to
attend, a Senate aide said.
3282. jexster - 1/26/2004 10:47:00 PM
ITEM #2 - First Feint - All The CIA's fault
See RD's quote Message # 3266 Double
Dark Chocolate Butter Cream Frosting
Item 3 - Teary Eyed CIA
Analysts Wracked with Guilt Confess to Dr. Kay, Company Confessor
Dr.
Kay said the fundamental errors in prewar intelligence assessments were so grave
that he would recommend that the Central Intelligence Agency and other
organizations overhaul their intelligence collection and analytical efforts.
Dr. Kay said analysts had come to him, "almost in tears, saying they
felt so badly that we weren't finding what they had thought we were going to
find — I have had analysts apologizing for reaching the conclusions that they
did."
In response to Dr. Kay's comments, an intelligence official said
Sunday that while some prewar assessments may have been wrong, "it is premature
to say that the intelligence community's judgments were completely wrong or
largely wrong — there are still a lot of answers we need." The official added,
however, that the C.I.A. had already begun an internal review to determine
whether its analytical processes were sound. So reasonable!! So contrite!!!
Uriah Heap Humility
3283. jexster - 1/26/2004 10:48:29 PM
Item #4 - The Syrian Mirage - Pretty Sprinkles to Finish
Demcrats.com ITS A SET
UP!
David Kay Now Says WMDs are in Syria
We here at
Democrats.com, who have followed Bush toady David Kay's career with much
interest (not to mention fear and loathing), were stunned when he recently
stated there were no WMDs in Iraq. Was this the same man who kept making the
media rounds to push Iraq's guilt before any new
inspectors had even set
foot in Baghdad? Ya know what they say: If it sounds too good to be true....
Turns out Kay was using his "media moment" last week simply as the "run up" to
his Bush-scripted statement this week: the WMDs are not in Iraq, 'cause they are
in SYRIA. So let's invade and connect those oil pipeline dots from Iraq to the
Mediterranean!
Diabolical Bush Dupes Media Again!
LITTLE
PROBLEM: Kay never said that. He juxstaposed but never connected two factual
conclusions - Chaos in first weeks stymied Inspection...Syria couldn't wouldn't
seal its borders..its all in the mind...
BIG PROBLEM: Kay induced short
term amnesia at Democrats.com....No weapons to smuggle!!! ITEM #1 HELLO!!
3284. robertjayb - 1/26/2004 11:39:57 PM
You get a line and I'll get a pole...
We'll go down to the crawdad
hole...
Crawfishin'
3285. jexster - 1/26/2004 11:51:48 PM
Let's take another look in slow motion...
Let's do a slow mo instant
replay:
1. No weapons since 1995, No production since 1991 - The Poison
2. All CiA;s fault - Attracts Republicans
3. CIA Agents Confess Sins
Against Bush - Attracts More Republicans
4. WMD's in Syria - Democrats.com
not fooled for one second...Deno Shit Fit Attracts Republican Flies
Outcome: Republicans see what they want, Democrats see what they
want & cry foul, Republicans like shrieking democrats see
Sooo....
That Intel Commmitee Investigation that DeLay labored mightly to
postpone for another year or so...two days ago in DeLay Election Year Deep
Freezer
Well ITS BAAACK
PRESTO - Armed Services
Committee - Let's get to the bottom of this right now!
The CIA threw the
spotlight on selected faults, all right, theirs! "Come please expose us, shame
on us all Mr. Bush"
Perfect indirection leads directly to Bush. The CIA
cannot escape responsibilty for their intelligence and their evaluation but they
can damn well nail Bush's ass to the wall for lying; make Bush's election year
very uncomfortable...
If Kay's sleight of hand sounds familiar, it
should.
Tenant Yellow Cake...leaps on sword... accepts full blame for
yellow cake lies...
Such loyal servants of Our Leader keeping friends
close and enemies closer
Days later, with all the lights switched on,
that sword took a whack out of Bush.
Again....9-1-1 Tenant selflessly
rolls...and guess who Gov Kean is focusing on today
And again,
judiciously chosen insider leaks every onec in a while...no big deal...ah but
what about all those chatty retired analysts, agents, station chiefs?
Deniabilty and diversion is their game...its why they're called spooks!
3286. jayackroyd - 1/27/2004 2:09:44 AM
Well, I'm still waiting for rdb's response.
3287. jexster - 1/27/2004 10:33:56 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Three US soldiers were killed and one wounded in a large
explosion in the restive Euphrates valley town of Khaldiya, west of Baghdad.
AFP/File Photo
Latest headlines:
· White
House brushes off Kay comments
AFP - 21 minutes ago
· Key players get
early copies of Hutton report
AFP - 23 minutes ago
· 3 U.S. Soldiers
Killed in Iraq Blasts
AP - 50 minutes ago
Special Coverage
"We are aware of an incident in the 82nd Airborne
Division area at 13:30 pm (1030 GMT) involving a large explosion in Khaldiya," a
US military spokesman said Tuesday.
"Early reports indicate three
killed, one wounded US soldiers
3288. robertjayb - 1/27/2004 11:40:34 AM
Kofi leaps in...(WashPost)
U.N. Secretary
General Kofi Annan announced Tuesday in Paris that he is sending a team of U.N.
experts to Iraq to determine whether elections can be organized to choose a
transitional Iraqi government by this summer.
The decision,
which Annan made in a statement released this morning in Paris, where he was
meeting with French President Jacques Chirac, marks the most significant
expansion of the United Nations' role in Iraq since Annan evacuated most
staffers from the country in late October. The move also increased prospects
that the United Nations will emerge as a mediator between U.S. authorities and
critics in Iraq over how the country will make the transition to self-rule.
3289. wonkers2 - 1/27/2004 11:43:07 AM
The biggest factor in Iraq at present is not Iraq elections but U.S. elections!
3290. robertjayb - 1/27/2004 4:28:30 PM
Bloody Tuesday...
(CBS/AP) A roadside bomb exploded south
of Baghdad late Tuesday, killing three U.S. soldiers and wounding three others,
the U.S. military said.
The attack occurred about 8 p.m. near
Iskandariyah, some 25 miles south of the Iraqi capital, a military statement
said.
Earlier Tuesday, three other U.S. soldiers were killed in a
bombing near Khaldiyah, west of Baghdad. Two Iraqi civilians also were killed in
the ambush — including one who was shot in the stomach as he stood in his office
nearby, hospital staff said.
3291. jexster - 1/27/2004 4:35:28 PM
This will shatter the hearts and hopes of our Moral Morons newly converted
Human Rights Activists ...you can almost here the Ba-Ba-Bush Sheep bleating
..."OOO baa baaaaa he gaaa-aaa-aaaased hiiii-iiiz people"
Unholy sheep shit: Iraq war unjustified says human rights
group
The US and British governments cannot justify the
Iraq war on humanitarian grounds, according to the annual report of Human Rights
Watch published yesterday.
3292. wonkers2 - 1/27/2004 5:02:18 PM
Well, that means Bush will have to drop his claim to having done more for human rights than any other president. That leaves having done more for the environment, the middle class taxpayer, homeland security, etc, etc.
3293. jexster - 1/27/2004 5:44:05 PM
More on The Big Bunker Busting Bomb
Bush's State
of the Union (SOTU) address failed to generate the traditional post-speech
bounce in presidential support. Today more results of the poll have been
released and further illustrate his lack of success in moving public opinion.
they asked voters who selected a given issue as "very important" whether
they thought a Democratic president would do a better job than Bush on that
issue. Here are the same issues with the percentage point lead (or deficit) for
a Democratic president among these voters: economy and jobs (+22); health care
(+34); education (+22); terrorism and homeland security (-18); situation in Iraq
(dead even); and Social Security/Medicare (+32).
Then, they asked voters
who selected a given issue as "very important" whether they thought a Democratic
president would do a better job than Bush on that issue. Here are the same
issues with the percentage point lead (or deficit) for a Democratic president
among these voters: economy and jobs (+22); health care (+34); education (+22);
terrorism and homeland security (-18); situation in Iraq (dead even); and Social
Security/Medicare (+32).
Pretty interesting! Despite how much
Bush dwelt on terrorism and Iraq in his SOTU address, his lead on the former,
his area of greatest strength, is actually less than the Democratic leads on the
four domestic issues. And he has no lead whatsoever on Iraq, the front line,
according to him, of the war against terror
Finally, how
about this one: "Do you think going to war with Iraq has made Americans safer
from terrorism?". Yes: 44 percent. No: 53 percent. Since this is exactly the
case Bush was trying to make in the SOTU, disagreement here is a telling
indicator that his speech should be considered "mission not accomplished".
3294. jexster - 1/27/2004 5:45:49 PM
OOOPs Bush Big Bombs are going off all around..I know ahark feels like when chum
hits the water..
FEEDIN TIME..bring it on
3295. robertjayb - 1/28/2004 10:41:14 AM
Shazaam! A new pre-election offensive...Generals Rove and Rumsfeld
will take the point...Lt. dubya will fly cover
WASHINGTON
(AP) - The Pentagon is planning a new offensive to foil the expected movement of
Taliban figures and Al-Qaida terrorists in still-troubled regions of
Afghanistan, officials said Wednesday.
Defense officials have issued an
order alerting troops to the planned ``spring offensive'' so forces can start
working on logistics and getting equipment in place, one official said on
condition of anonymity.
3296. judithathome - 1/28/2004 10:48:44 AM
They might have done this earlier...it's not like the opportunity
hasn't been there. But I suppose they think the elections in Iraq and pulling
out of there will be almost done by June so a little diversionary action in the
spring will take up the slack.
I wonder how many Americans are getting
tired of seeing the totals of dead soldiers every day? They reached a limit
during Viet Nam; maybe they have a limit now, too.
3297. jexster - 1/28/2004 11:03:19 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Five Iraqis plus a suicide bomber were killed when a powerful
car bomb tore off the front of a hotel in central Baghdad.
Bush's
"Win-win".
3298. jexster - 1/28/2004 11:10:42 AM
WASHINGTON - Senators want to speak with the former top U.S. weapons inspector who said he couldn't find evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction, a primary justification by President Bush for the war in Iraq
3299. jexster - 1/28/2004 11:20:14 AM
Kurds
& Whey - BIG Win-Win
The crisis over elections in Iraq is
destabilising the north of the country, where thousands of Kurds were yesterday
campaigning for the right to remain autonomous amid fears they would be "sold
out" by the coalition authoritie
Two major things to look for in
February:
1. Pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training Camp
2.
Regis Debray's "Indispensilbe Nation" will appear on the Harper's Website and
we'll be rubbing TD's nose in the Tricolor.
Hell I might even trot
it over to the PerfectSpider hole just for funnzies
3300. jexster - 1/28/2004 11:33:19 AM
WMD Were Quietly Destroyed
Ex-weapons inspector Kay says
new evidence shows Iraqis got rid of chemical and bio weapons in the '90s
So you can stop looking now RD.
3301. jexster - 1/28/2004 11:42:43 AM
RD...Now that you no longer need search for figments of Emperor Georgie's
fevered imagination, you'll have alot of time on your hands.
I've given
some thought to how you, a Libertarian, might profitably wile away the hours.
I picked out a selection of readings from the CATO INSTITUTE that I am
sure you will enjoy. Ronksi too if he ever comes out from under his bed...Hey
Ronsk no UAV's overhead its safe now.
How to Exit Iraq,
Dump Neo-Con Policy, and Win Re-election
Iraq: Exit Rather
Than Spend
Washington's Peter Pan Strategy for Iraq
Now you
boyz enjoy your Libertarian reading rally and lemme know when you finish.
There's more where that came from.
Seconds even thirds on King Georgie's
Shiite Sandwiches
3302. robertjayb - 1/28/2004 12:00:41 PM
Hoo Boy! Talk about leading a witness. Looks like the GOP senators are lining up to give blowjobs if Kay gives the right answers.
3303. marjoribanks - 1/28/2004 12:47:37 PM
The War on Terrorism, the campaign against the jihadis who have disrupted
normal life in a huge swathe of the world, has been on the back-burner for a
while as the US set off on its colonial adventure in Iraq.
From the
first, I have pointed out here that there has been a ridiculous and
uncomfortable silence about the some of the real breeding-grounds for the most
dangerous terrorists. The nexus that spawned the direct links between Mohammed
Atta as well as the killer of Daniel Pearl, and - pehaps - the distribution of
nuclear technology to extrmist groups, the nexus that bred the Taliban on one
end. In short, the extremist element in Pakistan that Washington refuses to
mention even as it lied about Saddam Hussein's potential in these areas.
Now, with ample warning, the US appears ready to act on the side of the
Pakistani majority. This is the story, and it will be a huge deal in the spring if it
goes forward.
Is it too late? I suspect it may be.
3304. robertjayb - 1/28/2004 2:03:03 PM
Won't you be my friend?
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan
expects $400-500 million debt write-off from the United States, said Finance
Minister Shaukat Aziz.
Speaking at a joint press conference with
Commerce Minister Humayun Akhtar Khan here on Tuesday, Shaukat said the
agreement to this effect would be signed shortly between the two countries under
$395 million package for the US financial year 2004 that began on October 1,
2003.
3305. judithathome - 1/28/2004 4:08:40 PM
Where Did Iraq Get Weapons?
The Senate committee's
reports on 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to
Iraq', undertaken in 1992 in the wake of the Gulf war, give the date and
destination of all US exports. The reports show, for example, that on May 2,
1986, two batches of bacillus anthracis -- the micro-organism that causes
anthrax -- were shipped to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education, along with
two batches of the bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly
botulism poisoning.
One batch each of salmonella and E coli were shipped
to the Iraqi State Company for Drug Industries on August 31, 1987. Other
shipments went from the US to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission on July 11,
1988; the Department of Biology at the University of Basrah in November 1989;
the Department of Microbiology at Baghdad University in June 1985; the Ministry
of Health in April 1985 and Officers' City, a military complex in Baghdad, in
March and April 1986.
The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam
Hussein ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least
5000 men, women and children died. The atrocity, which shocked the world, took
place in March 1988, but a month later the components and materials of weapons
of mass destruction were continuing to arrive in Baghdad from the US.
3306. vonKreedon - 1/28/2004 4:37:21 PM
Marj - You say, Now, with ample warning, the US appears ready to act on
the side of the Pakistani majority. Are you so sure that we will be acting
with the majority? The article you cite says, ...his [Musharraf]
cooperation with U.S. anti-terrorism efforts is widely unpopular among average
Pakistanis. It is certainly my understanding that this move will be very
unpopular, and likely meet with armed resistance in the FATA that would be the
main area of operation. It seems to me that this operation would have to be
primarily Pakistani, at least on the ground, with the US providing intelligence,
logistics, fire support and advice.
The thing that worries me about this
is Pak's nukes. To me they are the single biggest threat with regards to the use
of WMD against the US. If Musharraf falls and is replaced by a Taliban-like
regime, or by a chaotic power struggle, then all bets are off on the security of
Pak's nukes. Unlike Iraq, we know that Pak possesses them and keeping them from
falling into the hands of alQaeda should be a top priority, even over the
killing/capturing of Osama.
3307. jexster - 1/28/2004 8:10:52 PM
THANK YOU SPECIAL AGENT KAY!!!
Special K has unleashed the rats of
war...Congressmen are running to the nearest TV camera and saying such things
as...
".not only did Bush lie but members of the Intelligence Committee
looked me in the face and told me lies before I cast my vote."
3308. OhioSTOPAS - 1/28/2004 9:13:07 PM
On Monday morning our local Clear Channel radio station had nothing to say
about Kay's conclusions except (as close to verbatim as I can remember): "Kay
tells the London Telegraph that Saddam sent his weapons of mass destruction
programs to Syria."
Clear Channel, bringing "fair and balanced" news
(sic) coverage to your ears.
3309. wonkers2 - 1/28/2004 10:23:42 PM
Where did Iraq get the weapons? The ugly truth is one reason why some were so sure that Iraq had WMD--because we knew what the U.S. had shipped to Iraq.
3311. angel-five - 1/28/2004 11:32:03 PM
I'll say it even though it's unpopular, especially in my wing of American
politics -- Iraq did not give up WMD. Iraq had WMD, it was a shit-stupid reason
to invade and the Bush administration is now reaping that whirlwind although
thousands of Iraqi civilians aren't breathing and hence cannot, it was indelibly
retarded of our commander in chief the draft dodging coke snorting fratboy
monkey to make the case in this vein, let alone ties to al-Qaeda. But let's not
pretend that Iraq really went out into the desert and dumped all their WMD and
then abandoned the program. As I have said before, it doesn't take much at all
to hide a WMD program especially if you're not producing weapons stocks, and
that's what Iraq did.
3312. jexster - 1/29/2004 1:03:00 AM
Guess what they're sayin on Capitol Hill now?
"WOW, why in
the hell do we have to wait while Bushie roots around Iraq with 700 Milliono of
the taxpayers money just so he can delay the investigation into his lies? "
Special K, Agent CIA
Did ole Jex hit another out of the
park?
We're not worthy...we're not worthy!
3313. jexster - 1/29/2004 1:09:57 AM
Hey Acie, Hey Al, Take a Bite of Georgie's Big Shiite Sandwich
BAQUBA, Iraq (Reuters) - An explosion hit an Iraqi security patrol
in the restive town of Baquba, north of Baghdad, Thursday and witnesses said
they feared many casualties.
The blast struck members of the Iraqi Civil
Defense Force as they were conducting an early morning patrol through the town,
40 miles north of Baghdad, which has been the scene of repeated attacks against
Iraqi forces in recent weeks.
3314. OhioSTOPAS - 1/29/2004 6:30:14 AM
Although David Kay's recent statements are generally embarrassing to the Bush
Administration, the celebrated Mr. Kay is nevertheless being a loyal political
soldier and insisting that the fault was with our intelligence agencies, not the
Resident.
However, this
chronology refutes any argument that Bush, Cheney, Powell et al were
honestly and in good faith relaying intelligence findings to the American
people.
3315. wonkers2 - 1/29/2004 6:37:49 AM
Everyone should read the excellent and damning chronology. I subscribe to several of the publications cited and, as a result, never believed Bush's assertions about WMD.
3316. wonkers2 - 1/29/2004 6:40:12 AM
Moreover, the real issue is whatever weapons Iraq had, whether it was an iminent threat to the United States. It clearly wasn't.
3317. jexster - 1/29/2004 11:35:08 AM
BUSH Tries to Block Independent Investigation of Lies
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites)'s
national security advisor tried on Thursday to head off calls for an independent
investigation into flawed intelligence about Iraq (news - web sites)'s weapons
programs and said the United States may never learn the truth because of
post-war looting
SURPRISE SURPRISE: When Bush Tries to Hide, He Has Something TO
Hide
And they trotted out a new lie to cover the first. Just like a
5 year old might.
3318. robertjayb - 1/29/2004 11:36:29 AM
Oops! No G.I.'s for Pakistan...(CBS/AP)
Pakistan will not allow U.S. troops to use its soil for a planned
"spring offensive" against Taliban or al Qaeda fugitives, officials said
Thursday.
Brig. Javed Iqbal Cheema, who as chief of the National Crisis
Management Cell coordinates with U.S. officials in the war against terrorism,
said Pakistan's policy did not allow U.S. troops to operate inside the
country.
3319. jexster - 1/29/2004 11:40:54 AM
Bush was just tryin to save Ole Pervez's butt and that's the thanks he gets!
3320. jexster - 1/29/2004 11:42:13 AM
Guess what
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Osama bin Laden (news - web
sites)'s terror network is seeking a foothold in Iraq (news - web sites) as
evidenced by the recent arrest of a top al-Qaida operative trying to enter
northern Iraq, the commander of coalition forces said Thursday.
The
colonia is headed to hell in a handbasket and takin us with it.
3321. jexster - 1/29/2004 11:46:33 AM
Message # 3314
I don't buy the "good soldier" argument for a minute principally
because as Ohio points out, it is so demonstrably untrue based just on the
scattered mostly CIA leaked portions of the NIE 2002 and other stuff too.
Special K is CIA...the "good soldier" routine does double duty - the
obvious (prove loyalty) and the not so obvious (make a charge that invites
investigation which leads to BUsh's ass)....if any are familiar with that
chronology and know where the bodies are buried its the CIA
3322. jexster - 1/29/2004 11:46:55 AM
The Company is layin herbicide to the Bush
3323. jexster - 1/29/2004 12:14:00 PM
Deja Vu All Over Again - The Democracy Lie
Bush Fully Disengaged
White House split over self-rule
The White House is deeply
divided over plans to hand over power to the Iraqis. Cheney and Rumsfeld,
unsurprisingly, would rather hand the baton as early as April to the unelected
Iraqi Governing Council. The move would allow Bush to run on claims of having
restored sovereignty to Iraq while still keeping his favorite lackeys in power.
And in keeping with previous battles, the plan is being opposed by the State
Department and the CIA, who would prefer to broker a compromise with the leading
Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Sistani, who is calling for direct elections.
3324. jexster - 1/29/2004 12:22:31 PM
NOTA BENE in the SJ Merc article that The George Washington of Iraq has
reared his vile head in the debate again. Just as he poisoned the well going
into this mess...
Who can forget?
To paraphrase:
Q:
Aren't you a bit ashamed that your bogus intel played such a huge role in
conning the US public?
A: Fuck no. We're in Baghdad
3325. marjoribanks - 1/29/2004 12:30:19 PM
Are you so sure that we will be acting with the majority? The article you
cite says, ...his [Musharraf] cooperation with U.S. anti-terrorism efforts is
widely unpopular among average Pakistanis. It is certainly my understanding that
this move will be very unpopular, and likely meet with armed resistance in the
FATA that would be the main area of operation.
Reasonable question.
It is possible, Kreedon, to be fiercely nationalistic (and very
suspicious of US motivations) and simultaneously oppose the jihadis and the
extremist element that roils Pakistani politics. One bit of evidence for this is
the continual poor showing of extremist Islamic parties (though this has
improved in the last go-around) in the national elections.
The NWFP
(FATA) and Baluchistan are exceptional, in this regard, because they are much
less centrally-controlled. And when these two regions vote, they vote for the
Taliban. Not friends of the Taliban, not associates of the Taliban, the Taliban
itself.
There is a hard line to be walked here. The majority of
Pakistanis do want the corrosive influence of the extremists to be reduced or
eliminated. But they are also highly suspicious of the US and would certainly be
suspicious of any US military actions within Pak. So your surmise about the
potential make-up of a serious military attempt to take out the more extreme
elements in Pakistan may in fact be correct.
For a piece illustrating
the thinking of educated Paks in the majority I'm talking about, read this.
3326. marjoribanks - 1/29/2004 12:37:10 PM
Cheney and Rumsfeld, unsurprisingly, would rather hand the baton as early
as April to the unelected Iraqi Governing Council.
I might have
commented on this earlier.
Seymour Hersh (I think) wrote that, a few
months into the occupation of Iraq when Powell was running around trying to get
diplomatic support, he and Cheney ran into each other at the WH.
Apparently (Hersh has been reliable in these matters) Cheney barrelled
up to the SofS, jabbed a finger into his chest, and barked out something like
"if you hadn't stopped us from putting Chalabi in charge right after the statue
fell, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now."
It's breathtaking, it's
staggering. This is a hard, hard man, a dangerous person, a hard-boiled
ideologue to the core. He wanted to effect a coup, have his boy in charge, let
his boy be the figurehead for a bloodbath of retribution, and then jimmy things
so that his boy would be in control forever. Forget the rhetoric, forget the
sunny babbling about democracy, this was meant to be an old-fashioned,
muscle-power, coup. And Cheney still wants to see if he can pull it off.
3327. jexster - 1/29/2004 1:29:39 PM
Marjie this is SOS that's been happening and public since the very first
weeks of the Bush admin..
Deep divisions, unrestrained internecine
bureaucratic political warfare are warning signs of, as O'Neil so aptly put it,
a "disengaged" president and invariably result in policy confusion and
unpleasant outcomes.. entirely predictable and predicted.
3328. jexster - 1/29/2004 1:31:56 PM
When Wolfowitz candidly admitted that the Cheney Regime used the WMD lie for
"bureaucratic reasons" what he was really admitting was that the above confused
policy dynamic had the Regime in a rut. 
Followed Bush Roadmap
3329. jexster - 1/29/2004 1:50:19 PM
The
shadow of Iraq
Who will pay the price for war and occupation?
3330. wonkers2 - 1/29/2004 1:50:32 PM
Cheney is suffering from hardening of the arteries of the brain.
3331. jexster - 1/29/2004 1:50:53 PM
Big shiite sandwich and we're all gonna have to take a bite...
3332. robertjayb - 1/29/2004 1:59:26 PM
dailykos.com has a long list of quotes refuting the bushies' claim of not calling Saddam an imminent threat.
3333. robertjayb - 1/29/2004 2:08:59 PM
Seven soldiers killed today...
KABUL (Reuters) - An explosion
in southern Afghanistan killed seven U.S. soldiers and wounded three others on
Thursday, the U.S. army said.
U.S. central command said in a
statement the soldiers were killed when working near an arms cache in the
southern province of Ghazni on Thursday afternoon. An interpreter was also
injured and another soldier was missing, the statement said.
3334. jexster - 1/29/2004 2:09:57 PM
Meanwhile, the misery of the occupation of Iraq grows, as US and
British claims to have liberated the country are exposed as a fraud. While
the resistance continues to inflict daily casualties on the occupation forces in
the centre and north of Iraq - regardless of the capture of Saddam Hussein - the
Shia religious leader Ayatollah Ali Sistani has put himself at the head of a
mass popular movement for democracy, opposed by the very US occupiers who
insisted they were invading to trigger a democratic revolution across the Middle
East.
There are now around 13,000 Iraqis imprisoned without trial;
evidence of torture and brutality by US and British occupation forces is
growing; and the CIA has warned that Iraq is at risk of slipping into a
three-way civil war. For most Iraqis, life has got worse under the
occupation and even on the crudest calculus, many more have been killed since
Saddam Hussein was overthrown than in his last period in power: as the US-based
Human Rights Watch pointed out this week, Saddam's worst atrocities date from
the days when he was backed by the west.
This is the legacy of the
decision by Tony Blair and George Bush to invade a country that posed no threat
either to Britain or to the US. There is no way in which the Iraq war can
somehow be put behind us.
There are those 3 initials
again....leading one to ask, why are they talking at all?????
Why didn't
Special K just keep silent? Let his report, damning as it was, speak for
itself????
The answer is as plain as the nose on your face.
3335. wonkers2 - 1/29/2004 7:00:38 PM
I wonder what the Hutton Commission's evidence for it's whitewash of Tony Blair and his PR man and for its censure of BBC?
3336. jexster - 1/29/2004 9:23:55 PM
Special K on Newshour, the show that makes you smarter:
"I'm just a
technician. I don't know anything about politics.
Layin it on thick
3337. jexster - 1/30/2004 12:07:33 AM
Iraq is steadily coming apart...the latest from Prof Cole
10,000 Shiites Protest in Nasiriyah, seek Resignation of
Provincial Council
Looks like the Shiites are hard at work...not
only on the national level but they're trying to take the whole rotten edifice
of the Colonial Puppet Regime down at its foundations
3338. jexster - 1/30/2004 12:16:47 AM
And let it never be said that I only press tendentious argument..
Prof. Cole's Wombatian answer to Human Rights Watch (I don't agree but I
concede its a closer call than HRW):
I deeply disagree with the way
the Bush administration pursued the war against Iraq. The hyping of unfounded
'intelligence,' the backroom deals with corrupt or authoritarian expatriates,
the spying on the UNSC ambassadors and then the discarding of them, the
disregard for the United
Nations Charter, the undermining of international
law and the law of occupation--all of these steps and policies made our world so
much more shoddy and dangerous and mistrustful.
That said, I simply must
disagree with HRW and Mr. Roth that there were no humanitarian grounds for such
a war. I believe that what Saddam was doing to the Marsh Arabs from the
mid-1990s could legitimately qualify as a genocide. Likewise, the Anfal campaign
against the Kurds. Although the
latter was carried out some years ago, the
former had been recent and ongoing. Moreover, there is not in most legal systems
any statute of limitations on murder, so I am not sure why there should be one
on genocide or mass murder.
In short, I believe that the United Nations
Security Council was obliged to remove Saddam Hussein from power on the basis of
egregious violations of the UN Convention on Genocide
3339. jexster - 1/30/2004 6:23:18 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Attackers fired two rocket-propelled grenades at the Dutch Embassy in Iraq (news - web sites) on Friday night, hitting the roof with one and setting it on fire. The blaze was quickly extinguished, and there were no injuries.
3340. Magoseph - 1/31/2004 6:07:14 AM
At Least 9 Killed in Blast at Police Station in Iraq
BAGHDAD,
Iraq (AP) -- A car bomb exploded Saturday outside a police station in Iraq's
third largest city, killing at least nine people and wounding 45, witnesses and
hospital staff said.
Witnesses in Mosul saw severed limbs and
decapitated bodies on the street in front of the police station. Windows of
buildings were shattered and plumes of smoke could be seen in the area.
Staff at the Republican Hospital in Mosul said nine people including
civilians and policemen were killed and 45 others were injured.
Saturday
was a pay day and the police station was crowded with staff at the time of the
midmorning attack, said police Lt. Mohammed Fadil.
A U.S. military
spokesman said: ``We are aware of a report of an IED (improvised explosive
device) or a car bomb that exploded near the Mosul police station this
morning.'' He said he had no other details.
Al-Jazeera television
network said the pieces of the car apparently carrying the bomb were found 300
yards away. At least five nearby cars were damaged.
It said no American
troops were in the vicinity at the time of the blast.
3341. wonkers2 - 1/31/2004 9:40:29 AM
Iraqis don't count. Bush is only keeping track of Americans and trying to bury those numbers.
3342. robertjayb - 1/31/2004 2:31:34 PM
Three deadly months:
Iraq
Coalition Casualty Count...
3343. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 1/31/2004 3:27:42 PM
3344. robertjayb - 1/31/2004 8:13:12 PM
Mirror Imaging...Maureen Dowd
...They (the
bushies) had come into office itching to replay the '91 war and try out their
democracy domino theory in the Middle East — mirror imaging writ large. They
grabbed 9/11 as an opening, yanked power away from Colin Powell and persuaded
the popular diplomat to compromise his integrity by touting sketchy evidence at
the U.N., with the puppet Tenet as his wingman.
The moral of Vietnam was
supposed to be that we would never again go to war without understanding the
culture of our antagonists, or exaggerate their threat to us.
3345. arkymalarky - 1/31/2004 8:30:01 PM
quick off-topic question for Robert: Did I email you info on what I've been working on in AR?
3346. robertjayb - 1/31/2004 9:09:05 PM
Haven't seen such. My ISP email has been rejecting email with attachments. Try robertxb@yahoo.com.
3347. robertjayb - 1/31/2004 10:54:35 PM
The Washington Post says dubya has okayed an intelligence
query and that an announcement is imminent. My advice to the bushies is
stay away from that word imminent.
Anyone know where whitewash
and stonewall futures are traded?
(Dana Milbank and Dana
Priest)--President Bush has agreed to support an independent inquiry into the
prewar intelligence that he used to assert that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling
weapons of mass destruction, Republican and congressional sources said today.
The shift by the White House, which had previously maintained that any
such inquiry should wait until a more exhaustive weapons search has been
complete, came after pressure from lawmakers in both parties and from the former
chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq.
3348. jexster - 2/1/2004 6:44:15 AM
He couldn't have that dispute fester a minute longer. Good move..
Just watch though, he'll jerk them around on procedures, time limits and
materials esp. White House materials just as he did with 9-1-1.
3349. jexster - 2/1/2004 7:24:13 AM
Robert...
Vietnam is a model of statecraft compared to this. The WMD
fearmongering isn't even the worst of it. The Domino Theory of Asian Communism
enjoyed near universal public support and broad support in academic circles too.
For the Cheney Regime to have made a Democracy Domino Theory a
foundational premise of their War on Iraq is appalling.
O'Neill's
formulation fits perfectly as once again ideology and politics trump fact and
sound analysis in what passes for Bush policymaking.
3350. Magoseph - 2/1/2004 7:39:46 AM
RBIL, Iraq (AP) -- Two suicide bombers blew themselves up at the
offices of two rival Kurdish parties in this northern Iraqi city, killing at
least 57 people and injuring more than 235. One Kurdish minister said the death
toll could rise above 100. 3351. wonkers2 - 2/1/2004 8:42:54 AM
Cheney's interest in democracy is relatively recent. He opposed U.S. efforts
to unseat the apartheid government in South Africa. Of course, there were only
diamonds in South Africa, not oil. And Israel wasn't a factor.
3352. wonkers2 - 2/1/2004 11:40:31 AM
Here's what Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld have to answer to the American
public on, on WMD, in my opinion. They took intelligence reports and conclusions
which they knew were qualified and controversial in many respects (eg the
aluminum tubes, etc.) and based on untested human intelligence from Iraqi
refugees referred by Chalabi and they spoke to the American public and to the
United Nations with great certainty and assurance about Iraq's weapons programs,
certainty that exceeded the intelligence evidence. They owe us a mea culpa. In
Powell's case I hope we don't have to wait 40 years as in the case of Robert
McNamara. (Check the slow thread for a rather pointed comment on McNamara by
Howell Rains. I'll post it shortly.)
3353. judithathome - 2/1/2004 1:45:27 PM
Very interesting discussion on ABC this morning with James Woolsey, Richard
Holbrooke, George Will, and Fareed whose last name I always screw up. Woolsey
was outclassed by everyone. 3354. wonkers2 - 2/1/2004 2:31:33 PM
Woolsey was one of the earliest talking heads on Television supporting the
invasion of Iraq. He is a big ally of the neo-cons.
3355. judithathome - 2/1/2004 3:21:11 PM
Wasn't he in line early on to become head PoohBah in Iraq, too?
3356. wonkers2 - 2/1/2004 3:32:18 PM
I'm sure he was considered. He was also probably one of the first links to
Chalabi. All I remember is seeing Woolsey flacking for Bush's regime change
policy about once a week on one talk show or another starting shortly after the
inauguration.
3357. OhioSTOPAS - 2/1/2004 5:03:15 PM
Today's Repub talking point, "Bush was misled by the CIA's overestimation of
Iraq WMD's," is just a little bit undercut by the fact that the same
conservatives now parroting this point were previously complaining that the CIA
was UNDERESTIMATING the true danger of Iraq WMD's. The blogger Atrios
(atrios.blogspot.com) has some good then-and-now quotes. Also, as Matthew
Yglesias (www.matthewyglesias.com) notes, 3358. wonkers2 - 2/1/2004 6:14:55 PM
Bye, Bye, George Tenet! I'm surprised he's lasted this long.
3359. robertjayb - 2/1/2004 7:34:11 PM
President to Order Inquiry Into Iraq Intelligence Lapses
3360. jexster - 2/1/2004 8:52:39 PM
June 5, 2003 Post reported..."Cheney and his most senior aide [Scooter Libby]
made multiple trips to the CIA over the past year to question analysts studying
Iraq's weapons programs and alleged links to al Qaeda, creating an environment
in which some analysts felt they were being pressured to make their assessments
fit with the Bush administration's policy objectives, according to senior
intelligence officials... They felt a continual drumbeat, not only from Cheney
and Libby, but also from Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, Feith, and
less so from CIA Director George J. Tenet, to find information or write reports
in a way that would help the administration make the case that going into Iraq
was urgent." 3361. jexster - 2/1/2004 8:59:38 PM
Yesterday" "President Bush has agreed to support an independent inquiry"
3362. jexster - 2/1/2004 11:10:03 PM
Senior US Officials Knew in May there was no WMD in Iraq
3363. jexster - 2/1/2004 11:48:22 PM
Ohio... 3364. jexster - 2/2/2004 3:53:56 PM
From the Kaleej Times, United Arab Emirates... 3365. Absensia - 2/2/2004 5:07:09 PM
Pakistan's
Nuclear Kahn Confesses 3366. Absensia - 2/2/2004 5:21:54 PM
This should probably be in the International thread. Please move it, if you
wish, Jay.
3367. wonkers2 - 2/2/2004 6:27:32 PM
Khan & Kissinger, two of a kind.
3368. robertjayb - 2/2/2004 6:37:24 PM
Whistle-ass now whimpers, "We know Saddam had the intent and capability to
cause great harm." 3369. judithathome - 2/2/2004 6:42:24 PM
The president is a consumer of intelligence, not a producer of it," Perle
told the Times. 3370. jexster - 2/3/2004 12:09:13 PM
a
href=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&e=1&u=/washpost/20040203/ts_washpost/a6995_2004feb2
target=new>Powell: Oh My If We Only Knew Then What We Know
Now...
The dead included the governor of the region,
ministers in the local administration and several senior officials, Mohammed
Ihsan, the human rights minister for the Kurdish regional government, told The
Associated Press.
Bottom line...the 150 day timeline for a new
Iraqi government is ridiculous and won't be met. Woolsey seemed to think it was
possible but the others pointed out that was whistling in the wind.
"God -- the spin machine
really is good. Suddenly over the past 48 hours every single figure on the right
seems to have come to a unanimous decision that the CIA and the CIA alone is
wholly to blame for the intelligence mishaps. But then why did Dick Cheney need
to create an entire parallel intelligence apparatus under Doug Feith dedicated
exclusively to explaining why the CIA was underestimating Iraq's WMD capacity?"
WASHINGTON, Feb. 1 — President Bush will establish a bipartisan
commission in the next few days to examine a broad overhaul of American
intelligence operations, using the case of what went wrong in their assessments
of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction as part of a look at the difficulties in
penetrating secretive regimes and stateless groups that target the United
States, senior administration officials said today.
And the
result is...
It's all Bill Clinton's fault...
Today we learned that the CIA didn't bend to the pressure.
That makes it easy. The buck doesn't stop bouncing around the
Repsonsibility Regime but rather drops a nime here, a nickel there...
Today: "No independent inquiry. Blue Ribbon commission of Bush
appointees"
The Observer reports that "US military survey teams sent to visit
suspected sites of WMD, and intelligence interviews with Iraqi scientists and
officials, had concluded" . . . as early as last May that there were no chemical
or biological weapons stockpiles in Iraq, and nothing nuclear, either.
The Observer interviewed someone it identified as "a very senior US
intelligence official" who served during the war against Iraq, and knew the WMD
issue thoroughly. He said, "We had enough evidence at the beginning of May to
start asking, 'where did we go wrong?' . . . We had already made the judgment
that something very wrong had happened [in May] and our confidence was shaken to
its foundations." The source asserted that the intelligence community had
"suppressed dissenting views and intelligence."
This allegation directly
contradicts the repeated assertions by the Bush administration and by the
intelligence services themselves that no pressure was exerted on analysts.
The account was confirmed by former UN nuclear inspector David Albright:
"It was known in May that no one was going to find large stockpiles of chemical
and biological weapons. The only people who did not know that fact was the
public."
Actually, some of the "public" wasn't unaware of at least some
of these facts either. See the first entry for the Informed Comment column of
June 11 and the March 18 email i cited there.
One obvious conclusion is
that the Bush administration has known since May that its assertions that WMD
may yet be found in Iraq were false or highly unlikely, and this is another area
in which they have been willing to deliberately mislead the public. If you know
that each time a coin is tossed there is a 50/50 chance it will come up heads,
and you tell people the chance is 10/90, you are in effect lying to them.
Juan Cole
Josh Marshall was struck by the same and latest revisionist
flimflam from Bush apologists ....The Base Cult of the Bush isn't very different
from those Space Alien Suicides in San Diego a few years back or Jim Jones's
suicides..they'll literally swallow anything
A pearl. Lapidary. As
Churchill might have said, hypocrisy wrapped in mendacity, bundled up in
ridiculousness. A true gem. Richard Perle tells the Times that the CIA did
indeed sell the president a bill of goods. “The president is a consumer of
intelligence, not a producer of it," Perle told the Times. "I have long thought
our intelligence in the gulf has been woefully inadequate."
Right. Perle
has long been a staunch critic of the CIA. His argument was that they
understated the scope of Saddam’s WMD programs, naively discounted his ties to
terrorist organizations and had an overly pessimistic vision of post-war Iraq.
In other words, if the CIA is all wet, Perle is all wet squared. Or
probably even cubed.
The skeptical voices in the Intelligence Community
--- the ones who are now vindicated in spades --- were the objects of his
greatest derision. And his solution was to give even more credence to the
unreliable defector testimony which played such a key role in our bamboozlement.
-- Josh Marshall
Wolfowitz
Visit Detonates Escalation of Violence, Raising US Troop Death Toll to 250 Since
May 1
Sending a man as despised by Iraqis as Paul Wolfowitz
to Baghdad is like throwing gasoline on a smoldering fire. The last time he was
there, on October 26, a rocket pounded the Rashid Hotel while he was in the
building, killing one US soldier and wounding 17 other people. Now this weekend,
immediately before and after Wolfowitz's arrival, some of the most deadly
attacks yet have rocked Iraq, bringing the death toll of US soldiers killed
since Bush declared an end to major conflict in May to 250. Scores of Iraqis
died in attacks over the weekend, including 50-100 Kurds in an attack on the
Kurdish Party Office.
ONLY A DEAD BRAIN WALKIN led by the deaf and
the blind...
Dr A.Q. Khan, who is credited to have set
up Pakistan's nuclear programme, has admitted to having transferred nuclear
technology to North Korea, Iran and Libya , authoritative sources disclosed in a
background briefing to Dawn on Sunday.
Abundant evidence to the effect
is also said to have been extracted during the almost two-month-long
'debriefing' of most of the top scientists and officials of the Khan Research
Laboratories (KRL), the sources said.
The government is said to have
also concluded that it was a huge intelligence lapse as those who were charged
with safeguarding the country's nuclear secrets were found to have failed
miserably to detect such a massive leak over such a long period.
"Everybody knew ours was a covert programme and every successive
government and security agencies overlooked allegations about Dr Khan's assets
in the interest of the programme and because of the trust in his person, who
without any doubt was a towering personality," the sources said.
Newspaper reports have already given a long list of property and bank
accounts alleging that Dr Khan had owned all of them in his own name.
Apparently, when Kahn was in charge of the nuclear development, the work
was kept so secret that none of the Prime Ministers from Bhuto (father) through
Sharif) were allowed on the premises and given only vague information.
No, you don't know that.
You're still making
shit up.
Another embarrassing understatement.
Oh my
Oh why
Oh that we may soon say
"goodbye".
3371. jexster - 2/3/2004 12:10:17 PM
I oughta know better than to link before coffee
Oh damn
Powell: Oh My If We Only Knew Then What We Know
Now...
3372. jexster - 2/3/2004 2:27:13 PM
Ace don't know squat but he sure knows when its time to skeeedaddle....
"WMD lies will become increasingly irrelevant...its a win-win
for King Georgie" Eddie Dantes (RIP)
LONDON (AFP) - British Prime
Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) ordered an inquiry into the intelligence
on Iraq (news - web sites)'s weapons programs used to justify war, bowing to
intense political pressure after the United States agreed a similar probe.
3373. jayackroyd - 2/3/2004 4:00:31 PM
This newsweek article
points out, kind of in sum in the middle of the article an interesting, and
ironic fact.
Remember when Powell was saying that we know they have wmd
and we know where they are? And remember Blix complaining that he had looked in
all the places the CIA had told them to look, and hadn't found anything, and
wanted the real list that led to Powell's assurances?
We now know, as in
the Pollack piece in the Atlantic, or any number of other places, that the
source for the CIA's knowledge of wmd in Iraq was the UN inspectors
themselves from the previous inspection regime. (David Kay calls it the
"CIA's crack cocaine")
And, just by the way, now that we do know for
sure that the source of the intelligence was the inspectors, it sure as heck,
with hindsight would have made a great deal of sense to have kept on inspecting.
Oh, but that's our hindsight. The agency, otoh, knew where the
information had come from.
I hope. I guess I hope so.
But if
they did, then why did they say they knew where the stuff was, and that they
were assisting the inspection teams, when they knew they were just feeding them
back their own information.
And if they didn't remember their sources,
that's even worse, isn't it?
3374. jexster - 2/3/2004 4:16:38 PM
"We went to war because of Iraqi 'intent'"
Buffalo Soldier, Porch
Monkey Powell
Shit now they're mind readers which makes sense, in a
psychotic sort of way..after all, Georgie hears voices from God and peered into
Pooty Poot's very soul
3375. jexster - 2/3/2004 4:22:33 PM
Straw
Launches British Intelligence Inquiry
But stop the presses, guess
what?
It all a scam! Shocker eh?
Testing Washington's intelligence
Analysis: If true
to history, the Bush administration may scupper the inquiry it has just
announced into the quality of information it received on Saddam's WMDs
MAYBE?? There's no maybe about it. The Bush executive order lays the
predicate for another flimflam whitewash.
These people are criminally
incompetent and mostly likely insane
3376. jexster - 2/3/2004 4:23:05 PM
The Madness of King George
3377. wonkers2 - 2/3/2004 4:25:55 PM
Whatever happened to "The buck stops here?" Oh I forgot, Bush doesn't read!
3378. jayackroyd - 2/3/2004 4:35:43 PM
Sure he does. Bassmaster.
Although I guess that is really just
looking at pictures, isn't it?
3379. jexster - 2/3/2004 7:51:43 PM
ARBIL, Iraq (AFP) - The death toll from twin suicide bombings in Arbil rose to at least 100, making them the deadliest attacks in post-war Iraq (news - web sites) and dealing a crushing blow to the US-led occupation
3380. jexster - 2/3/2004 8:02:02 PM
HUMILIATED BLAIR FORCED TO ORDER WMD INQUIRY
3381. robertjayb - 2/3/2004 11:49:47 PM
dubya surrenders to Kofi and the U.N. (NYTimes)
WASHINGTON, Feb. 3 — President Bush pressed Kofi Annan, the United
Nations secretary general, on Tuesday to have his aides mediate among quarreling
factions in Iraq and forge a consensus behind a plan that would allow the
transfer of sovereignty to a government in Baghdad by June 30, administration
officials said.
.................................................
We
are trying to put this issue in Kofi Annan's lap and let him run with it," one
official said. "There's still very much the intention to stick with the date of
June 30. But there's a lot of pressure on Kofi Annan to come up with the right
solution."
Pressure on Kofi?
3382. robertjayb - 2/4/2004 12:39:38 PM
The Desert Mirage...A longish USA Today piece describes
intelligence blunders concerning Iraq's weapons...
...In July
1998, a commission led by Donald Rumsfeld, who would become Bush's Defense
secretary, cautioned that U.S. intelligence might not be able to warn of
emerging ballistic-missile threats from states such as North Korea, Iran and
Iraq. The solution, the panel advised, was a new kind of analysis to
"extrapolate a program's scope, scale, pace and direction beyond what the hard
evidence at hand unequivocally supports."
As Defense secretary, Rumsfeld
would insist that war in Iraq was waged on solid intelligence. Increasingly,
however, it appears that U.S. intelligence followed the course set by Rumsfeld's
1998 panel in extrapolating the scope of the Iraqi threat "beyond ... the hard
evidence at hand."
.................................................
U.S. intelligence merged debatable intelligence about chemical and
biological agents with equally debatable intelligence about weapons delivery
systems. Iraq, the CIA said, still had 20 Scud missiles and was developing drone
aircraft that might be launched, possibly off a merchant ship, to strike the
United States.
Bush administration officials then translated the CIA's
worst-case calculations into potential mass casualties. Bush cited the U.N.
figures in saying that the anthrax would be enough "to kill several million
people" and that the chemical weapons could "kill untold thousands."
Powell told the U.N. Security Council even a conservative estimate would
give Saddam enough chemical agent to attack "an area five times the size of
Manhattan."
No Scud missiles have been found. The drone aircraft U.S.
search teams have found in Iraq were too small to deliver chemical or biological
weapons.
3383. robertjayb - 2/4/2004 12:40:35 PM
toys?
3384. jexster - 2/4/2004 12:54:24 PM
Intelligence chiefs 'ignored WMD warnings'
February 4: Intelligence chiefs ignored warnings from their own leading
experts that they could not be certain Iraq had chemical and biological weapons,
a former intelligence official who gave crucial evidence to the Hutton inquiry
claimed today
3385. jexster - 2/4/2004 12:56:40 PM
Further to the above, meet the latest to blow the whistle on the Liars...
New dossier claim fuels WMD doubts
February
4: The claim by former Ministry of Defence scientist Brian Jones that
intelligence officials were overruled on the Iraq dossier has inflamed the
controversy about Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction ahead of the debate
on the Hutton report.
3386. jexster - 2/4/2004 1:26:43 PM
Iraq: To Hell in a Handbasket
"A US
soldier was killed and another injured on Tuesday by a roadside bomb in Iraq,
the US military said in a statement. The roadside bomb exploded at about 10.30
a.m. (0730 GMT) when the US soldiers were carrying out an operation to clear
such weapons near Iskandariya, 56 km south Baghdad, it added. The death brings
to at least 367 the number of US soldiers killed in combat in Iraq since the
start of the US-led war on Iraq."
Despite the capture of Saddam, more US
troops were killed in January (47) than in December.
Meanwhile, the
deaths from Sunday's massive suicide bombings in Irbil have mounted to about
101, as those gravely wounded have died. Kurds are shocked and angry, and the
outcome of the tragedy has yet to unfold. Jeffrey Gettelman of the NYT cannily
suggests, based on an interview with Joost Hilterman, that some of the high
Iraqi officials killed were among the more pragmatic in recognizing the need for
restraint in demands for Kurdish autonomy. If so, the bombing may have helped
radicalize the Kurds.
3387. jexster - 2/4/2004 1:31:32 PM
Did I mention that no occupying power survived a nationalist insurgency in the 20th century?
3388. jayackroyd - 2/4/2004 2:40:18 PM
Sometime ago, when Bush announced that the real goal was democracy dominoes,
I (and Banks among others) applauded the audacity of the vision, but feared that
this was entirely insincere. The imposition of the June 30 deadline shortly
thereafter proved that our fears were well-founded.
Now, as jexster has
kept saying, the shi-ites are messing things up. Sistani is essentially saying
"put up or get out."
Sistani is a deeply religious man who is also a
survivor. Living in Najaf, a holy city and burial place haunted by Shiite
passion for martyrdom, he has emerged as a leader through quiet rationalism.
When his fatwa summoned thousands into the streets of Baghdad, Sistani crossed
the line from scholar to activist. In many ways, we're all lucky that he is the
voice of Iraq's Shiites, but by playing politics, he is entering a dangerous
arena. A powerful Shiite cleric is calling for a peaceful, internationally
moderated democracy in Iraq. Just across the border, Iran's theocracy is
wrestling with the same issues, and from Egypt to Malaysia leaders struggle to
integrate Islam and democracy. Behind the rhetoric of regime change George Bush
added the promise that America would make that integration happen in Afghanistan
and Iraq. Sistani has dared him to do it.
From Slate.
3389. jexster - 2/4/2004 6:49:01 PM
Iraqi Insurgency Is as Lethal as Ever Since Hussein's
Capture
You were saying TD???
3390. jexster - 2/4/2004 6:53:27 PM
L'audace...toujours l'audace!
Jay....when folks stop applauding the
audacity of Bush's lies and start laughing...he'll be back where he belongs and
we can start cleaning up the mess he's made
3391. jexster - 2/5/2004 12:37:27 PM
Dead for Bush's Lies
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - One U.S. soldier was
killed and another wounded in a mortar attack on U.S. military installations
near Baghdad airport on Thursday, a U.S. Army spokesman said.
Tenet: Analysts Never Claimed Imminent Threat
3392. jexster - 2/5/2004 12:43:56 PM
Rats,
Poodles, Sinking Ships
Blair caught in Iraqi arms row
Tony Blair yesterday said that at the time of the Iraq war he was
personally unaware that Saddam Hussein did not have the ability to fire
long-range chemical and biological weapons.
3393. jexster - 2/5/2004 1:39:49 PM
Sistani
Aide: Loose Federalism not in Iraq's Interests
Kurds
will LOVE that
3394. jexster - 2/5/2004 1:45:01 PM
CNN: THERE HAS BEEN A SERIOUS ATTEMPT ON THE LIFE OF THE GRAHD AYATOLLAH
3395. jayackroyd - 2/5/2004 2:00:39 PM
More detail, please.
3396. robertjayb - 2/5/2004 2:14:46 PM
Sistani survives assassination attempt...(Reuters)
NAJAF, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraq's most powerful Shi'ite cleric,
Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, survived an assassination attempt on Thursday when
gunmen opened fire on his entourage, a security official in his office said.
"At 10 o'clock this morning, gunmen opened fire on Ayatollah Sistani as he
greeted people in Najaf, but he was not hurt," the official told Reuters on
condition of anonymity.
Sistani, revered by Iraq's Shi'ite community,
which makes up about 60 percent of the population, is rarely seen in public and
seldom leaves the holy city of Najaf, about 160 km (100 miles) south of
Baghdad.
3397. jexster - 2/5/2004 3:21:47 PM
The Shiites won't like THAT one bit
Bush's Big Shiite Sandwich
Open
wide
3398. robertjayb - 2/5/2004 6:03:56 PM
McCain on Intelligence panel?
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -
President Bush is expected to name
Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain to a
bipartisan commission that will investigate flaws in U.S. intelligence used to
justify the Iraq war, Republican sources said on Thursday.
Bush is
expected to announce the establishment of the commission on Friday with a
timetable of reporting back next year, after the November election.
Bob Kerrey?
Sam Nunn?
3399. jexster - 2/5/2004 8:17:00 PM
Sam Nunn in VP running
3400. robertjayb - 2/5/2004 11:35:16 PM
No failure of intelligence...(Sydney Blumenthal)--The
Guardian
...On virtually every single important claim made by the
Bush administration in its case for war, there was serious dissension.
Discordant views - not from individual analysts but from several intelligence
agencies as a whole - were kept from the public as momentum was built for a
congressional vote on the war resolution.
Precisely because of the
qualms the administration encountered, it created a rogue intelligence
operation, the Office of Special Plans, located within the Pentagon and under
the control of neo-conservatives. The OSP roamed outside the ordinary
inter-agency process, stamping its approval on stories from Iraqi exiles that
the other agencies dismissed as lacking credibility, and feeding them to the
president.
..................................................
No
news here for webheads...except to note the play the Brits give the story.
3401. robertjayb - 2/5/2004 11:40:00 PM
Tory leader wants Blair resignation...(The Guardian)
Ministers have angrily dismissed a call from Tory leader Michael
Howard for Tony Blair to resign over the Government's Iraq weapons dossier.
His call for the Prime Minister to consider his position followed Mr
Blair's admission that he did not know that the so-called "45 minute claim" only
referred to battlefield weapons when he asked MPs to vote for war.
Mr
Howard described Mr Blair's failure to establish exactly what kind of weapons
were referred to when the dossier said that some chemical and biological
munitions could be deployed within 45 minutes as a "a most grave state of
affairs".
3402. jexster - 2/5/2004 11:49:25 PM
Blundering Bush Losing Hearts and Minds in Iraq
3403. robertjayb - 2/6/2004 12:09:55 AM
bushie revisionists calling for rewrite...(Paul Krugman)
Right now America is going through an Orwellian moment. On both the
foreign policy and the fiscal fronts, the Bush administration is trying to
rewrite history, to explain away its current embarrassments.
3404. jexster - 2/6/2004 11:22:13 AM
Juan Cole - Disputed Assassination attempt on Sistani
Alissa Rubin of the LA Times reports that there are conflicting stories
about whether Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani was the victim of an attempted
assassination attempt on Thursday. Two Shiite members of the Interim Governing
Council told her that they were briefed that there was such an attack. On the
other hand, the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq denied that an
attack took place.
The office of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani is also
denies the report, broadcast Thursday by Saba, the US-sponsored news agency in
Iraq, that his car was sprayed by machine gun fire as he was leaving his office
to return home.
I should think that whether there is a car in Najaf near
Sistani's office full of holes made by machine gun fire would be possible to
verify.
But I think the bottom line is that Sistani would know whether
the attempt was made or not. Either it simply did not happen, or he is lying
about the incident to forestall ethnic violence or to avoid giving the
impression of vulnerability, given his attempt to intervene in the shape of
Iraqi elections.
I believe in Occam's Razor, and the simplest
explanation that accounts for all the known facts is that the assassination
attempt was an urban rumor that got going in Najaf and was unfounded, but
circulated to the IGC and thence to Saba News.
3405. jexster - 2/6/2004 11:26:15 AM
Desperate: Bunglers Set for Major Iraq Plan Revamp
UNITED NATIONS, Feb. 5 -- The U.S. plan to hand over power in Iraq is
increasingly likely to undergo major changes rather than merely "refinements"
because of increasing skepticism about the June 30 deadline for creating a
provisional government and erosion of support for the proposal to use caucuses
to select it, according to senior U.S. and U.N. officials.
The
Bush administration still publicly clings to its transition plan, but a U.N.
team scheduled to arrive in Iraq as early as Friday has been given a free hand
to present its own blueprint for the country's political transition if it
determines elections cannot be held by June in Iraq, U.S. and U.N. officials
said.
In a sign of their growing anxiety, U.S. officials have also
crafted some dramatically new ideas, in the hope of bringing a smooth conclusion
to the struggling occupation. The list has been shared with the United Nations,
the officials added.
3406. jayackroyd - 2/6/2004 11:41:25 AM
jexster--
That story is good news. They aren't going to stick to the
June deadline, hell or high water, and they're backing away as expediently as
they can. Sistani has done a fine job of forcing the issue delicately and
diplomatically. The UN's role is growing. And the electoral calculus is
shifting; better a delay than a civil war.
I might suggest a different
analysis of the side effects in some other thread, but in this one, you should
be pleased.
3407. jexster - 2/6/2004 11:47:58 AM
Well good and bad...
While I am not yet ready to accept the
Armageddon part of his scenario, I am convinced that Regis Debray is right. The
longer we stay involved the worse the situation will get.
Thus the only
way this is good news is if Bush internationalizes and he won't.
3408. jexster - 2/6/2004 11:49:22 AM
Bush, who had been resisting, declared that he would appoint a commission
to investigate. His motive was patent in the announcement: The commission would
report its findings after the election. Kay's testimony was the catalyst, but on
only one of his claims is he correct: He was wrong. His assertion of authority
on what happened with intelligence -- "we were all wrong" and that there was no
pressure -- is as unfounded as his previously certain belief in the existence of
WMD. The truth is that much of the intelligence community did not fail, but
presented correct assessments and warnings that were overridden and suppressed.
On virtually every single important claim the Bush administration made in its
case for war, there was serious dissension. Discordant views -- not from
individual analysts but from several intelligence agencies as a whole -- were
kept from the public as momentum was built for a congressional vote on the war
resolution.
Precisely because of qualms the administration encountered
within, it created a rogue intelligence operation -- the Office of Special
Plans, located within the bowels of the Pentagon. The OSP was under the control
of neoconservatives; it roamed outside the regular interagency intelligence
process, stamped its approval on stories retailed by Iraqi exiles that the other
agencies dismissed as lacking credibility, and directly piped them into the
president through the vice president's office. It was fail-safe in producing
disinformation and feeding the impulses of a self-isolated president, but it was
not what anyone involved in the craft of intelligence calls intelligence.
There was no general intelligence failure; on the contrary, there
was a successful effort by the Bush administration to intimidate, subordinate
and punish intelligence to fit its political objectives.
3409. jexster - 2/6/2004 11:50:15 AM
Its a big Shiite sandwich....
3410. jexster - 2/6/2004 11:50:38 AM
toys
3411. jexster - 2/6/2004 11:56:24 AM
Here they go again...
Yesterday Tenant played the inside game "We
never said there was an imminent threat", followed by carefully chosen words to
make the CIA appear loyal.
But former agents continue to spill the
beans...
When Bush insisted that Saddam was actively and urgently
engaged in a nuclear weapons program and had renewed production of chemical
weapons, the Defense Intelligence Agency denied the assertions. Bruce
Hardcastle, defense intelligence officer for the Middle East, South Asia and
Counterterrorism, "told them that the way they were handling evidence was
wrong," Patrick Lang, former head of
Human Intelligence at CIA, told me. The Bush administration response was
not only to remove Hardcastle from his post. "They did away with his job. They
wanted just liaison officers who were junior. They didn't want a senior
intelligence person who argued with them. Hardcastle said, 'I couldn't deal with
these people.' They are such ideologues that they knew what the outcome should
be and they thought when they didn't get it from intelligence people they
thought they were stupid. They start with an almost pseudo-religious faith. They
wanted the intelligence agencies to produce material to show a threat,
particularly an imminent threat. Then they worked back to prove their case. It
was the opposite of what the process should have been like, that the evidence
should prove the case."
There must be 20 or so seperate sources like
this. Now remember that the CIA is a very close knit group. Like the Marines,
there are no "former" CIA employees...once in the Company family...always in the
family.....
3412. jexster - 2/6/2004 12:21:56 PM
When I analyze the stench
On Monday -- the day Bush
announced he would appoint an investigative commission -- Powell offered a
limited mea culpa at an editorial board meeting at the Washington Post. He said
that if only he had known the intelligence, he might not have supported an
invasion. Thus he began to show carefully calibrated remorse designed to
distance himself from other Cabinet-level members of the administration and
especially Vice President Cheney. Powell also defended his U.N. speech, claiming
"it reflected the best judgments of all of the intelligence agencies." Thielman
asked, "Powell said he got the best intelligence. Why did he not have INR with
him?"
Powell is highly sensitive to the slightest political winds,
especially as they might affect his reputation.
If he is a
bellwether, will it soon be that every man must save himself?
3413. jexster - 2/6/2004 12:22:09 PM
Buffalo Soldier,
Dreadlock Rasta
There was a Buffalo Soldier
In the heart of America
Stolen from Africa, brought to America
Fighting on arrival, fighting for
survival
I mean it, when I analyse the stench
To me, it makes a lot
of sense
How the Dreadlock Rasta was the Buffalo Soldier
And he was
taken from Africa, brought to America
Fighting on arrival, fighting for
survival
Said he was a Buffalo Soldier, Dreadlock Rasta
Buffalo
Soldier, in the heart of America
If you know your history
Then you
would know where you coming from
Then you wouldn't have to ask me
Who
the heck do I think I am
I'm just a Buffalo Soldier
In the heart of
America
Stolen from Africa, brought to America
Said he was fighting on
arrival
Fighting for survival
Said he was a Buffalo Soldier
Win the
war for America
Dreadie, woe yoe yoe, woe woe yoe yoe
Woe yoe yoe
yo, yo yo woe yo, woe yoe yoe
(repaet)
Buffalo Soldier, trodding through
the land
Said he wanna ran, then you wanna hand
Trodding through the
land, yea, yea
Said he was a Buffalo Soldier
Win the war for America
Buffalo Soldier, Dreadlock Rasta
Fighting on arrival, fighting for
survival
Driven from the mainland
To the heart of the caribbean
Singing, woe yoe yoe, woe woe yoe yoe
Woe yoe yoe yo, yo yo woe yo
woe yo yoe
(repeat)
Trodding through San Juan
In the arms of
America
Trodding through Jamaica, a Buffalo Soldier
Fighting on arrival,
fighting for survival
Buffalo Soldier, Dreadlock Rasta
Singing, woe
yoe yoe, woe woe yoe yoe
Woe yoe yeo yo, yo yo woe yo woe yo yoe
3414. jexster - 2/6/2004 2:01:12 PM
The following is an email exchange today between myself and Josh Marshall re:
CIA games
not just considered it, but know it
At
12:06 PM 2/6/2004, you wrote:
Mr. Marshall,
Have you ever
considered that the CIA is involved in an inside/outside two front war on the
White House???
I think that if you will review the chronology you will
see a pattern....
Inside game - the Tenant Testimony, the Niger Yellowcake
story, the Kay bombshell - in each case the CIA issued statements that appear
loyal but in each case, the most credible, the most concrete, the headlined
element damns Bush and the rest invites futher inquiry...
Then there's
the outside game...you can get a good feel for that from Sid Blumenthal's piece
in Salon
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2004/02/05/wmd/print.html
3415. jexster - 2/6/2004 2:01:21 PM
My take:
Here they go again...
Yesterday Tenant
played the inside game "We never said there was an imminent threat", followed by
carefully chosen words to make the CIA appear loyal.
But former agents
continue to spill the beans...
When Bush insisted that Saddam was
actively and urgently engaged in a nuclear weapons program and had renewed
production of chemical weapons, the Defense Intelligence Agency denied the
assertions. Bruce Hardcastle, defense intelligence officer for the Middle East,
South Asia and Counterterrorism, "told them that the way they were handling
evidence was wrong," Patrick Lang, former head of Human Intelligence at CIA,
told me. The Bush administration response was not only to remove Hardcastle from
his post. "They did away with his job. They wanted just liaison officers who
were junior. They didn't want a senior intelligence person who argued with them.
Hardcastle said, 'I couldn't deal with these people.' They are such ideologues
that they knew what the outcome should be and they thought when they didn't get
it from intelligence people they thought they were stupid. They start with an
almost pseudo-religious faith. They wanted the intelligence agencies to produce
material to show a threat, particularly an imminent threat. Then they worked
back to prove their case. It was the opposite of what the process should have
been like, that the evidence should prove the case."
There must be 20 or
so seperate sources like this. Now remember that the CIA is a very close knit
group. Like the Marines, there are no "former" CIA employees...once in the
Company family...always in the family.....
John C. .....
3416. jexster - 2/6/2004 2:10:47 PM
Response within an hour! 3417. marjoribanks - 2/6/2004 2:52:58 PM
Nice, Jex. 3418. robertjayb - 2/6/2004 6:25:36 PM
Laurence Silberman, co-chair of dubya's "independent" intel
commission is an experienced shit-shoveler for the GOP right-wing...
3419. robertjayb - 2/6/2004 6:56:24 PM
Josh Marshall has more on Judge Silberman...
3420. jexster - 2/6/2004 8:21:27 PM
Have you SEEN Josh Marshall?? 3421. jexster - 2/6/2004 8:43:24 PM
Well, the
fix, as they say, is in Marshall on the Independent "Investigation"Lie
3422. wonkers2 - 2/6/2004 11:38:22 PM
Rjb, your links on Shit-heel, Silberman, don't seem to work.
3423. robertjayb - 2/6/2004 11:54:05 PM
Sorry, 3424. robertjayb - 2/7/2004 3:03:57 AM
More on Silberman...(Inter Press Service)
3425. jexster - 2/7/2004 10:51:08 AM
Fully Disengaged: Its Every Warmonger for Himself - NyT
3426. jexster - 2/7/2004 11:19:10 AM
The only credible explanation for the degree of dependence that
Blair seems to have placed upon the pre-2003 Iraq intelligence is that he
needed it desperately, to convince the British people of reasons why
their country should join a crusade against Saddam - upon which he was
already privately determined 3427. jexster - 2/7/2004 6:41:55 PM
3428. jexster - 2/7/2004 6:43:53 PM
The London daily al-Hayat says today that after being roiled by
divisions after the fall of Saddam, the Shiites are now seeking a way to
unify 3429. jexster - 2/8/2004 11:31:12 AM
LONDON - Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites)'s government
"dramatized" some of its prewar evidence about the threat posed by Iraq (news -
web sites), former chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix said Sunday.
3430. jexster - 2/8/2004 2:13:57 PM
Looks like the Company's out to take the whole rotten artifice apart piece by
piece.. 3431. jexster - 2/8/2004 4:18:59 PM
{Bush Lied} GI Dies As Iraq Insurgents Attack Convoys
3432. robertjayb - 2/8/2004 7:30:04 PM
Our old friend and bane of evil-doers everywhere, spudboy, has some
interesting items on Judge Silberman on his Orcinus website. And
ever helpful, he provides a link to this juicy review of Chuck Robb's career
highlights: 3433. wonkers2 - 2/8/2004 8:01:23 PM
Great stuff on Silberman from spudboy. It goes a long way to renew my faith
in our democratic system! Ha!
3434. jexster - 2/8/2004 10:35:40 PM
A brave Swede indeed! 3435. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/8/2004 11:19:55 PM
3436. robertjayb - 2/9/2004 12:12:38 AM
Well, at least he won't have to be retrained...
3437. jexster - 2/9/2004 10:40:16 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military will be more sensitive to Islam and intrude
less into Baghdad's neighborhoods when a new Army division takes control of the
Iraqi capital on April 15, Army commanders said Monday. 3438. judithathome - 2/9/2004 10:48:12 AM
Yes, wasn't it telling that the kid was taken to an American hospital after
everyone was saying there were no kids involved? 3439. jexster - 2/9/2004 11:27:08 AM
Pretty grim for that mother and her family on that chicken truck the Bradley
shot to hell...What Amanpour missed...the Bradley Fighting Vehicle was designed
to fight in a nuclear battlefield (yea right) 3440. jexster - 2/9/2004 11:28:03 AM
3441. jexster - 2/9/2004 2:31:05 PM
One US Soldier killed, 5 Wounded on Sunday; Iraqi police Major
among Insurgents 3442. jexster - 2/9/2004 3:13:14 PM
I've talked about it and I've promised to link it... 3443. jexster - 2/9/2004 3:13:30 PM
3444. wonkers2 - 2/9/2004 6:25:49 PM
Thanks to Bush, et al, we're fucked!
3445. jexster - 2/9/2004 6:31:52 PM
Like nobody saw that coming! 3446. robertjayb - 2/9/2004 7:12:25 PM
Salam Pax
has interesting posts. 3447. jexster - 2/9/2004 9:03:10 PM
What are the consequences of such a Platonic presidency? The immediate
risk is the replacement of Saddam with a more dangerous fundamentalist
regime. Bush is certain this won't happen. "They're not going to develop
that, because right here in the Oval Office, I sat down with Mr. Pachachi and
Chalabi and al-Hakim, people from different parts of [Iraq] that have made the
firm commitment that they want a constitution eventually written that recognizes
minority rights and freedom of religion," Bush told Russert. "I said [to Mr.
al-Hakim], 'You know, I'm a Methodist. What are my chances of success in your
country and your vision?' And he said, 'It's going to be a free society where
you can worship freely.' " 3448. jayackroyd - 2/10/2004 9:09:26 AM
The TNR Iraq'd column has some
interesting commentary on 1) the veracity of the "Al qaeda is coming" document
and 2) on the movement to a democratic Iraq that Bush talked about last Sunday.
3449. jexster - 2/10/2004 11:51:29 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - A suspected suicide truck bombing killed at least 55 people
outside a police station south of the Iraqi capital in one of the deadliest
attacks since US-led forces overthrew Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) last
spring.
3450. jexster - 2/10/2004 11:52:45 AM
I must check that out....is TNR changing out of its bloodstained neocon
nightie?
3451. jexster - 2/10/2004 11:57:26 AM
While on that subject, not that I am paranoid or anything but......
3452. jexster - 2/10/2004 11:58:08 AM
Peter's cute though....he could take out his aggression on.. 3453. jexster - 2/10/2004 12:04:43 PM
3454. jexster - 2/10/2004 12:50:25 PM
Doubts hold back rising star of Iraqi politics
3455. jexster - 2/10/2004 12:52:47 PM
she does not disguise the ambivalence with which she sees her work on the
councils and her cooperation with the American civil and military officials who
guide them. She was relieved to see the fall of Saddam Hussein but has been
deeply disturbed by the US military occupation that followed. 3456. robertjayb - 2/10/2004 5:15:33 PM
Two versions of Intel Report...(Philadelphis Inquirer)
3457. robertjayb - 2/11/2004 6:59:00 PM
Rummy eager to dump Iraq mess on State... 3458. robertjayb - 2/11/2004 11:21:32 PM
Clinton made us stupid---it's his fault...
3459. wonkers2 - 2/11/2004 11:50:37 PM
Bush should send Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Fieth, Perle, Libby, et al, to
Iraq with orders to stay there until democracy flowers.
3460. robertjayb - 2/12/2004 1:11:44 AM
Through the dubya looking glass...(Maureen Dowd)
3461. jexster - 2/12/2004 7:17:38 AM
3462. concerned - 2/12/2004 10:11:58 AM
From AFP, FWIW: Pig lard to stop terror attacks 3463. robertjayb - 2/12/2004 12:00:25 PM
U.S. commander comes
3464. jexster - 2/12/2004 2:43:42 PM
3465. concerned - 2/12/2004 2:50:03 PM
What are you talking about, jexster? Iraq could have had elections last week
or *last* May, for that matter. Meeting some arbitrary schedule does not a good
idea make, fool.
3466. jayackroyd - 2/12/2004 2:52:26 PM
Correct. The administrations longstanding commitment to an arbitrary schedule
has had deleterious effects, and they still have not moved off from that foolish
idea. I hope that they can use the UN as cover for doing so, and that they don't
stick to a foolishly rigid timetable wrt troop withdrawals.
3467. vonKreedon - 2/12/2004 2:54:20 PM
I agree with Con, at least with his points other than "...fool." Holding ANY
sort of election/caucus at this point is to invite, if not insist on a blood
bath. But also at this point we are screwed if we back off of the May 30
deadline. I have no idea why the administration felt the need to announce a
specific date, rather than set of conditions, for a transfer of authority.
3468. vonKreedon - 2/12/2004 2:56:40 PM
Oops, I think the operative date is June 30th.
3469. jexster - 2/12/2004 2:59:02 PM
Pig lard not kosher. 3470. concerned - 2/12/2004 2:59:55 PM
Re. 3467 - 3471. jayackroyd - 2/12/2004 3:04:45 PM
Yes, and the right way to do that, according to the democracy builders I
know, is to start locally, setting up elected councils, then regionally, then
provincially, then nationally. This, of course, takes a long time, and doesn't
fit into the election cycle very well, which is the only reason I can think of
for setting the June 30th date. 3472. judithathome - 2/12/2004 3:04:55 PM
Gee, you'd think with all that brain power at their fingertips, this
administration would've thought of that before going in.....
3473. jexster - 2/12/2004 3:10:30 PM
For months, Bush refused to grant elections because there wasn't enough time
to set them up by May 30th and make the June 30 target of selecting a
proivisional government. Bush lied then but now its probably not possible to do
in three months or fewer. 3474. jexster - 2/12/2004 3:26:41 PM
Recall too that Bush's declared rationale(what little that's worth) for the
June turnover was that replacing the the IGC and the CPA regime would reduce
violence 3475. jexster - 2/12/2004 3:33:10 PM
When you cut through the crap, Bush doesn't want an Islamic State even a
democratic one...thus the rigged caucus scam...The IGC morphs into something
"provisional" for appearances with no real guarantee the glorified puppet would
expire on schedule or ever...
3476. jexster - 2/12/2004 3:42:23 PM
Two reasons... 3477. jexster - 2/12/2004 4:01:35 PM
Two reasons... 3478. jexster - 2/12/2004 4:16:19 PM
jay that's the Gospel According to the Carnegie Dem and Rule of Law in a
nutshell.. 3479. jexster - 2/12/2004 4:22:59 PM
THE
RIGHT ROAD TO SOVEREIGNTY IN IRAQ 3480. PelleNilsson - 2/12/2004 4:27:13 PM
Protect the polling place fer crissakes.. 3481. vonKreedon - 2/12/2004 4:45:12 PM
toy
3482. jexster - 2/12/2004 5:14:07 PM
Yes Iraq is a big country...yes polling place would not be as convenient to
reach as we may be accustomed to but their numbers are manageable, the locations
known and they are only open 1 day... 3483. jexster - 2/12/2004 5:15:32 PM
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said on
Thursday Iraqis want direct elections but made clear they could not be organized
by June 30, the date Washington wants to relinquish power to an interim
government in Baghdad. 3484. jexster - 2/12/2004 5:26:07 PM
FYI there are 18,000 precincts in California which is a bit larger land size
than Iraq and about 8-9,000,000 more residents... 3485. robertjayb - 2/12/2004 11:18:01 PM
Senate to expand WMD Intel probe... 3486. jexster - 2/13/2004 1:52:21 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An explosive device has killed a U.S. soldier and wounded
two others while they were patrolling a Baghdad suburb, the U.S. military said
Friday.
3487. jayackroyd - 2/13/2004 1:52:35 AM
Drip drip drip.
3488. robertjayb - 2/13/2004 12:49:17 PM
Riverbend tells of
abduction of family member... 3489. jexster - 2/13/2004 2:27:48 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.N. official sided with the United States in its dispute
with Iraq (news - web sites)'s powerful Shiite Muslim clergy over elections,
saying Friday it would be hard to organize a vote before the June 30 deadline to
hand power to the Iraqis. 3490. jexster - 2/14/2004 2:47:49 AM
Pentagon's present to Powell 3491. jexster - 2/14/2004 2:51:01 AM
Pentagon's present to Powell 3492. jexster - 2/14/2004 3:54:28 PM
Welcome
to Georgie's Hell 3493. robertjayb - 2/14/2004 4:27:26 PM
prayer breakfast kills 25 at Iraqi compound...
3494. jexster - 2/14/2004 6:14:19 PM
The Fools Rush in....Payin the Price of Bush's NeoJacobin Fantasies
3495. robertjayb - 2/14/2004 9:14:46 PM
Riverbend
describes a grim memorial... 3496. robertjayb - 2/15/2004 10:36:11 AM
Chalabi: Thief of Baghdad...(Maureen Dowd) 3497. jexster - 2/15/2004 11:24:26 AM
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) - Tension remained high in Iraq (news - web sites)
one day after insurgents launched twin raids on Iraqi security bases, sparking
blistering battles that left 27 dead and dozens wounded. 3498. jexster - 2/15/2004 10:06:19 PM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Iraq (news - web sites)'s powerful Shiite Muslim authority
has drawn up alternative proposals should the United Nations (news - web sites)
formally judge that snap direct elections as demanded by its top cleric are
impossible, a representative of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani said. 3499. jexster - 2/16/2004 11:03:44 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Gunmen ambushed an American religious group in Iraq (news
- web sites), killing one person and wounding three, the U.S. military said in
Baghdad Monday. 3500. jexster - 2/16/2004 11:12:00 AM
The Liberation Lie 3501. jexster - 2/16/2004 11:38:30 AM
3502. jexster - 2/16/2004 11:39:32 AM
Undaunted by the current muddle over elections in Iraq, the United States
is pressing ahead with plans to democratise the rest of the Middle East.
3503. robertjayb - 2/16/2004 2:22:25 PM
Son died for absolutely nothing... 3504. robertjayb - 2/16/2004 5:59:43 PM
Feeling the heat---Seeing the light...
3505. jexster - 2/16/2004 10:02:28 PM
Juan Cole:The Dangers of Economic Shock Therapy in Iraq
3506. jexster - 2/17/2004 10:16:19 PM
Fatwa'd Again! 3507. jexster - 2/17/2004 10:23:39 PM
Fully Disengaged 3508. jexster - 2/18/2004 11:06:52 AM
Everyone's
Doin It - Pissin in the Bush, Iraqi Kurds reject coalition's call to disband
militia 3509. jexster - 2/18/2004 2:17:00 PM
Iraq Spining Apart 3510. jexster - 2/18/2004 2:46:38 PM
Debray's dynamic decomposition thesis three months ago when I first read it,
struck me as refreshingly counterintutive plausible in broad brush but overdrawn
in detail. Over the interening weeks events the more I considered Debray's
hypothesis, the more credible it seemed. From plausible, to credible, to
compelling, to the present, I believe it practically irrefutable:
3511. jexster - 2/19/2004 1:22:37 PM
George W. Bush - Wanted for Crimes Against Humanity 3512. jexster - 2/19/2004 1:59:18 PM
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites)
assured U.S. envoys Thursday that Israel had not abandoned a U.S.-backed peace
"road map," but said he would prepare go-it-alone moves in case the plan failed.
3513. robertjayb - 2/19/2004 6:18:08 PM
Neocon hero Chalabi cashing in---Big Time!
3514. concerned - 2/19/2004 10:09:56 PM
jexster - 3515. concerned - 2/19/2004 10:10:39 PM
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has
made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." 3516. concerned - 2/19/2004 10:11:09 PM
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter
and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
3517. concerned - 2/19/2004 10:11:30 PM
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every
significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused
to do" 3518. jexster - 2/19/2004 10:43:47 PM
Too bad they didn't see the same Intel reports Bush did... 3519. jexster - 2/19/2004 10:46:56 PM
And guess what 3520. jexster - 2/19/2004 10:48:12 PM
11 Iraqis Killed, 55 Foreign Troops Wounded in Car Bombings
3521. concerned - 2/19/2004 10:49:22 PM
Re. 3518 - 3522. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/19/2004 10:49:35 PM
3523. jexster - 2/19/2004 10:54:10 PM
and TD I am delighted that you apparently have developed a taste for what
Democrats have been saying...that's a good thing, a very good thing.. 3524. jexster - 2/19/2004 10:55:39 PM
No I am saying that George W. Bush is congenitally mendacious MORON, moron.
3525. concerned - 2/19/2004 10:59:41 PM
Then, according to you all those 'Rats I quoted are congenitally mendacious
morons, too, Jexster. Chapter and verse, boy. 3526. concerned - 2/19/2004 11:01:48 PM
Jexster betrays his own party. He has just publicly conceded that one needs
to make allowances for 'Rats because they're not to be held responsible for
whatever they say.
3527. jexster - 2/19/2004 11:06:23 PM
And I don't like you Sludgin my congressgirlie either... 3528. jexster - 2/19/2004 11:06:37 PM
3529. jexster - 2/19/2004 11:09:53 PM
We've now passed he gassed his people 3530. jexster - 2/19/2004 11:10:22 PM
Make that Continuing Crocks of BushShit
3531. jexster - 2/19/2004 11:13:05 PM
We are now 3532. jexster - 2/19/2004 11:20:13 PM
3533. jexster - 2/20/2004 12:21:13 AM
Wanna thank TD for reminding me of something that I have been putting off for
a while now... 3534. jexster - 2/20/2004 11:53:12 AM
To Hell in a Handbasket 3535. robertjayb - 2/20/2004 12:32:16 PM
Colin Powell shown on CNN saying: [...it was clear there...] "...was no
intention on his (Saddam's) part not to have the intention for such weapons and
programs." 3536. robertjayb - 2/20/2004 7:07:22 PM
NYTimes article
prompts Rivrbend rant... 3537. jexster - 2/20/2004 10:09:16 PM
I don't see much room for the Infidel, much less the Infidel Imperium in this
from Professor Cole..do you? 3538. jexster - 2/20/2004 10:17:24 PM
Sistani Interview in Der Spiegel 3539. robertjayb - 2/21/2004 12:41:34 AM
CIA stiffed U.N. on Intel...(NYTimes)
3540. jexster - 2/21/2004 11:15:06 AM
The Twisted Logic of Dreams 3541. jexster - 2/21/2004 11:19:52 AM
So, if these reasons don't hold up to serious scrutiny and merely seem to
suggest that the administration was misguided to do what it did, what, then,
were the real underlying reasons for the attack? Effectively, there were three:
first, a sincere ideological belief that the destiny of the United States is to
bring democracy and prosperity to other nations; second, the urge to brutally
assert and signal unconditional U.S. hegemony; and third, the need to control
Iraqi oil reserves. 3542. jexster - 2/21/2004 12:17:07 PM
Want to brush up on how to spout the increasingly farcical party-line on
Iraqi WMD? 3543. jexster - 2/21/2004 12:44:56 PM
February Became the Bloodiest Month Yet - Last Week 3544. jexster - 2/21/2004 12:53:16 PM
Twisted Dreams, Twisted Schemes and Lies: C.I.A. Admits It Didn't
Give Weapon Data to the U.N. 3545. jexster - 2/21/2004 2:04:02 PM
Kurds Tell Bush to Go Piss Up a Rope
3546. jexster - 2/21/2004 9:24:08 PM
3547. robertjayb - 2/23/2004 11:44:28 PM
C.I.A. tipped way early on 9/11 hijacker...
3548. robertjayb - 2/24/2004 4:55:13 PM
How smart is this? The bushies really ought to read the newspapers...
3549. robertjayb - 2/25/2004 4:28:29 PM
Riverbend gets
sarky over media bias... 3550. judithathome - 2/25/2004 4:32:38 PM
Yes, she is right.
3551. robertjayb - 2/25/2004 5:22:51 PM
Saddam Catchers hunt bin Laden...(Battle Cry: Remember
November 9!) 3552. vonKreedon - 2/25/2004 5:37:01 PM
Those damn French keep stealing our material, dang gum it! Voltaire couldn't
have said that, the USA didn' even exist when he was powdering his froggy ass!
Who ya' gonna believe, some Ayrab woman or our brave boys who are sendin her
email?
3553. arkymalarky - 2/25/2004 6:46:24 PM
The American version is "I do not agree with a word you say, so I assume
you're a terrorist."
3554. Absensia - 2/25/2004 7:17:38 PM
"And if you're not a terrorist yet, you probably intend to be one in the near
future, so you're under arrest, now."
3555. wonkers2 - 2/25/2004 8:32:36 PM
As if Halliburton weren't bad enough. Now we have an Israeli company feeding
at our trough in Iraq! Absolutely incredible!
3556. jexster - 2/26/2004 12:27:31 PM
AHA! I knew it. Wonk's hates Jews 3557. jexster - 2/26/2004 1:45:48 PM
The Fruits of the Poisoned Bush: Clare Short Blows the Whistle on
Spying at UN
3558. jexster - 2/26/2004 6:19:57 PM
Q'Wagmire Explained 3559. jexster - 2/27/2004 12:18:56 PM
Iraqis Pray As Sistani Pressures The Hypocritical Imperium for
Election Date
3560. jexster - 2/27/2004 12:20:20 PM
3561. jexster - 2/27/2004 12:23:45 PM
Shit hitting fan in Britain BIG TIME 3562. vonKreedon - 2/27/2004 12:47:39 PM
My reading of the news out of Iraq/DC is that the US still intends to hand of
sovereignty to the Iraqis on June 30th. How the hell does that work? Who do we
hand this sovereignty to? What would this sovereignty consist of? What happens
if a mass movement repudiates the sovereign entity? Why are we doing this, what
do we expect to accomplish by this?
3563. vonKreedon - 2/27/2004 12:48:01 PM
TOYS!!!
3564. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/27/2004 1:06:30 PM
3565. jexster - 2/27/2004 2:04:15 PM
They still don't know exactly to whom they are handing sovereignty..par for
their course, they've made this shit as they've gone along all the while..
3566. PelleNilsson - 2/27/2004 2:08:55 PM
Isn't the new constitution (provisional I guess,like everything else) due
tomorrow?
3567. vonKreedon - 2/27/2004 2:24:23 PM
The interim Basic Law is scheduled to be implemented, or otherwise released,
tomorrow, but it is not going to happen. Further, this imposed structure does
not appear to have any legitimacy with the Iraqi people if it were implemented.
3568. wonkers2 - 2/27/2004 2:34:48 PM
We definitely are fucked.
3569. wonkers2 - 2/27/2004 2:35:08 PM
That is we fucked ourselves.
3570. jexster - 2/27/2004 3:12:54 PM
AH GREAT Wiz didn't beat me to it... 3571. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 2/27/2004 3:40:43 PM
LOL!!!!!
3572. jexster - 2/27/2004 3:48:10 PM
Kerry Launches Scathing Attack Against Bush for Bungling
WOT 3573. robertjayb - 2/27/2004 5:58:09 PM
Checking the numbers... 3574. robertjayb - 2/28/2004 2:43:08 PM
dubya wants Osama, really, really bad... 3575. jexster - 2/28/2004 2:47:14 PM
6 US Soldiers wounded in 24 hours 3576. robertjayb - 2/28/2004 2:52:47 PM
Election a'comin, folks... 3577. jexster - 2/28/2004 3:04:30 PM
Yes indeed where is Al beggar of Questions... 3578. judithathome - 2/28/2004 4:03:37 PM
So what's this I hear about them already having Bin Laden? Some report in an
Iranian newspaper? 3579. jexster - 2/28/2004 10:35:29 PM
RD is most exercised these days about the rule of law..HA 3580. jexster - 2/28/2004 11:04:41 PM
Lies Have Consequences 3581. jexster - 2/28/2004 11:11:12 PM
Tony
Blair is one leak away from resignation
3582. jexster - 3/1/2004 2:28:24 PM
Delaying the inevitable until after the Provisional Authority no longer has
any, is hardly "an achievement"! 3583. jexster - 3/1/2004 2:37:17 PM
"The law is the leader, the leader is not the law," a Shiite mullahs remarked
in a reference to the despotism of the Baath regime. 3584. jexster - 3/1/2004 2:42:40 PM
Bush's Iraq: Factory for Suicide Bombers - LAT
3585. concerned - 3/1/2004 4:20:34 PM
Good news for George Bush and bad news for jexster: 3586. jexster - 3/1/2004 4:23:29 PM
Bullshit
3587. jexster - 3/1/2004 4:25:17 PM
Just like the capture of Saddam was "bad news for jexster" 3588. concerned - 3/1/2004 4:26:06 PM
jexster - 3589. jexster - 3/1/2004 4:29:44 PM
The cleric Hadi al-Mudarrisi gave a sermon on the occasion of the eighth
day of Muharram (a holy mourning period for Shiites) at the shrine of Kazimiyah
(a suburb of Baghdad) in which he called for "denying any opportunity to enemies
that try to impose an unelected government that is contrary to Islamic law in
Iraq." Ominously, he demanded "the defense of the truth even if it requires the
shedding of blood." He told the crowd not to accept any political plan in which
the masses do not participate 3590. jexster - 3/2/2004 1:55:06 AM
Was
the war legal? Leading lawyers give their verdict - NO 3591. jexster - 3/2/2004 2:06:30 AM
The security situation is so
bad in the country that the UN is now saying if it doesn't improve it won't
be able to help with the elections that would flesh out a real government. Even
the police are
living in terrror, but if you can hire a mercenary at $100,000
a year, you'll be a little safer. . . 3592. jexster - 3/2/2004 2:26:11 AM
Multiple explosions in Karbala.... 3593. jexster - 3/2/2004 11:38:43 AM
KARBALA, Iraq (AFP) - Almost 140 people were killed as Shiite Muslims came
under attack in coordinated attacks in the cities of Karbala and Baghdad, on the
deadliest day in Iraq (news - web sites) since the fall of Saddam Hussein (news
- web sites). 3594. jexster - 3/2/2004 11:40:43 AM
Attacks on Shiite Muslims in Iraq (news - web sites) and Pakistan killed at
least 184 people Tuesday and wounded hundreds. The Shiites were celebrating
Ashoura, the holiest day in their religious calendar. 3595. PelleNilsson - 3/2/2004 11:51:13 AM
This may be the start of the civil war sought by some.
3596. jexster - 3/2/2004 11:54:12 AM
3597. jexster - 3/2/2004 11:56:36 AM
The Shiites are sit back and wait for Ahmed Chalabi to the clean out the
treasury ...HA 3598. robertjayb - 3/2/2004 2:40:32 PM
One more time---Let's review the lies... 3599. alistairConnor - 3/2/2004 2:45:01 PM
It seems that the Wahhabi loons are dead set on creating a civil war between
Shiites and Sunnites. 3600. jexster - 3/2/2004 4:06:07 PM
Sunnis..Kurds...American puppet regime...Sadr brigades already in Kirkuk
3601. jexster - 3/2/2004 4:08:15 PM
6 septembre 2003 3602. jexster - 3/2/2004 6:40:40 PM
One more time..certainly won't be the last.. 3603. jexster - 3/2/2004 6:43:46 PM
3604. jexster - 3/2/2004 6:52:49 PM
Tuesday, March 02, 2004 3605. jexster - 3/2/2004 6:53:37 PM
I didn't participate in 4 anti war marches and put up with horseshit from
folks like you just for the hell of it
3606. jexster - 3/2/2004 7:51:49 PM
In 1917, 21 Shia clerics in Najaf wrote a letter to the British forces
advancing towards Baghdad calling on them to occupy Iraq and throw off Sunni
Ottoman rule. 3607. jexster - 3/2/2004 7:53:22 PM
And finally the Emperor came....one of the most inept, deceitful, and
megalomaniacal rulers the US has ever known
3608. jexster - 3/2/2004 8:05:24 PM
February 25, 2004 3609. jexster - 3/2/2004 9:48:06 PM
Christian Parenti, Iraq Correspondent for the Nation (Two
Sides 3610. alistairconnor - 3/3/2004 9:46:02 AM
Remember
WMD? 3611. jexster - 3/3/2004 7:58:19 PM
Boy that's pretty aad when you think about it....the CIA knew so little of a
region where smuggling has flourished for what - five thousand years?
3612. jexster - 3/4/2004 9:21:49 PM
Shiites Renew Demands to Arm Militias
3613. jexster - 3/4/2004 9:26:33 PM
Shiites Renew Demands to Arm Militias 3614. jexster - 3/4/2004 9:36:12 PM
Key Lawmakers Beginning to Wonder if Bush Knows His Ass from a
Hole in the Ground 3615. wonkers2 - 3/4/2004 9:47:38 PM
Anybody notice that as the heat from continuing American casualties was
getting too hot, Bush reduced patrols by American troops and pulled our guys
back into their barracks in order to reduce their exposure. He shifted the
responsibility for maintaining order to poorly trained and equipped Iraqi police
with the result that Iraqi police and civilian casualties have skyrocked. Bush
figures these dead and wounded won't hurt him politically. And does anybody else
get the feeling that what we are doing in other areas of Iraq is driven by
election politics?
3616. robertjayb - 3/5/2004 12:46:41 PM
Remember those mobile bioweapons labs? 3617. jexster - 3/5/2004 1:29:24 PM
A bit of both...no a large helpin of both...they are so caught up in their
wacko ideology that they believe anything and at the same time so convinced of
their wacko creed that they believe any lie told in support of it is
excusable... 3618. jexster - 3/5/2004 1:30:41 PM
3619. wonkers2 - 3/5/2004 4:45:34 PM
Willfully gullible or lying? Probably a bit of both.
3620. jexster - 3/5/2004 8:55:28 PM
Out to Lunch Is More Like It or perhaps Petit Dejeuner
3621. jexster - 3/5/2004 8:57:53 PM
Perspective....we've lost allies..and the reckless use of US military power
and predictably and predicted, opposing centers of power are forming around our
long time and erstwhile allies. 3622. wonkers2 - 3/5/2004 9:16:47 PM
But Bush solidified his base, and that's what really counts!
3623. jexster - 3/5/2004 11:38:26 PM
Someday hopefully sooner rather than later, the Moronic Mass will learn the
difference between truth and thr eeal on the one hand, and lies, spun BushSHit
on the other... 3624. jexster - 3/5/2004 11:38:58 PM
Ace marry me
3625. wonkers2 - 3/6/2004 11:01:14 AM
The recent attacks in Iraq bring to light a grave problem facing America: the
Shiite revival in Iraq since the fall of Sadaam Hussein has reinvigorated a
Sunni militancy that in turn threatens peace and stability in a broad swath of
Asia from Pakistan to Lebanon... 3626. jexster - 3/6/2004 12:42:03 PM
Hans Blix has come out with a book which happens to give his answer to the
current question of whether Bush and Blair are wackos or liars....Excerpts can
be found in the Guardian 3627. jexster - 3/6/2004 12:44:57 PM
Chirac said France did not have any "serious evidence" that Iraq retained
proscribed weapons. Having met people from French intelligence and listened to
them, I registered with keen interest that Chirac did not share their
conclusions on Iraq. The intelligence services sometimes "intoxicate each
other", he said. War was now the worst solution. It would fuel anti-western
feelings in the Muslim world ... Chirac said that Saddam Hussein was "locked up
in an intellectual bunker". His entourage did not dare to tell him the truth.
3628. jexster - 3/6/2004 12:47:41 PM
February 20 3629. jexster - 3/6/2004 12:49:47 PM
Blair said the Iraqis could have sig nalled a change of heart in the
December 8 declaration, but had not done so. The US did not think Saddam would
cooperate. Nor did Blair. But, he said, we needed to keep the international
community together. 3630. jexster - 3/6/2004 12:51:14 PM
I added that it would prove
paradoxical and absurd if 250,000 troops were to invade Iraq and find very
little. 3631. wonkers2 - 3/6/2004 1:30:17 PM
Great stuff. Too bad more people aren't aware of it. Most don't go beyond the
headlines. Ignorance is rife.
3632. jexster - 3/6/2004 2:38:44 PM
Not for long...this is an Election Year...those who danced to the tune
WILL pay the piper 3633. judithathome - 3/6/2004 2:48:05 PM
Are they still showing the empty tables on CNN with the pens all lined up,
ready for signing?
3634. robertjayb - 3/6/2004 2:58:09 PM
The best laid plans of small men and scoundrels...
3635. jexster - 3/6/2004 3:44:02 PM
I beginning to really love that guy... 3636. jexster - 3/6/2004 3:45:58 PM
I can help but recall that article about Perle during the Afghan war how he
wanted to broadcast freedom messages to the Russian troops...and haul them back
here as Democracy Trophies.. 3637. jexster - 3/6/2004 3:48:09 PM
Their idea was to encourage Soviet officers and soldiers to defect to the
mujahideen. As [CIA chief Gust] Avrakotos derisively describes it, "The muj were
supposed to set up loudspeakers in the mountains announcing such things as 'Lay
down your arms, there is a passage to the West and to freedom.'" Once news of
the program made its way through the Red Army, it was argued, there would be a
flood of defectors. 3638. jexster - 3/6/2004 3:48:22 PM
3639. jexster - 3/6/2004 3:50:08 PM
Cuckoos of the Far
Right 3640. jexster - 3/6/2004 3:50:45 PM
"...."What Russian in his right mind would defect to those fuckers all armed
to the teeth
3641. jexster - 3/6/2004 3:52:21 PM
The very same loons that Chalabi fucked are running the damn country...and
idiots like Ace re-cycle their blather. 3642. robertjayb - 3/6/2004 7:58:51 PM
A mess in
Baghdad...(Riverbend) 3643. jexster - 3/7/2004 11:53:40 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Mortar fire rang out across Baghdad Sunday evening and
warning sirens sounded at the headquarters of the U.S.-led administration in the
capital. 3644. jexster - 3/7/2004 1:50:33 PM
target=new>Blix: Iraq War was Illegal 3645. jexster - 3/7/2004 4:01:04 PM
Nuclear weapons. Mushroom cloud. Unique and urgent threat. Real and
dangerous threat. Grave threat. This was the administration's rallying cry for
war. But those were not the words of the intelligence community. 3646. jexster - 3/7/2004 4:04:47 PM
CASE CLOSED 3647. jexster - 3/7/2004 4:05:55 PM
But President Bush was not deterred. He was relentless in using America's
fears after the devastating 9/11 tragedy. He drew a clear link -- and drew it
repeatedly -- between Al Qaeda and Saddam. 3648. thoughtful - 3/8/2004 9:40:02 AM
OMG! Check out Brad de Long's web site:
http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Index.html 3649. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:13:37 AM
Thoughtful-- 3650. jexster - 3/8/2004 10:14:34 AM
So's this: 3651. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:14:41 AM
Sorry, that question would be "Why was this known Al Qaeda group, in a
friendly region of Iraq, utterly dependent on the US for security, allowed to
stay in business?"
3652. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:16:18 AM
Or, worse, 3653. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:16:49 AM
It's hard for a cynic to keep up.
3654. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:26:33 AM
However, thinking about it, you have to ask the follow on question, why are
they STILL there?
3655. thoughtful - 3/8/2004 10:27:24 AM
Jay: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601
3656. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:30:48 AM
Thanks. That answers my question in 3654. They've scattered.
3657. Wombat - 3/8/2004 10:45:10 AM
Al Ansar was an anti-Saddam group, supported by Iran. Its sanctuary was
broken up by US and Kurdish forces after attempts to get them to disarm in the
aftermath of the invasion.
3658. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:51:23 AM
I knew the first part. You're saying that they were attacked, and that the
mission had mixed results?
3659. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:52:53 AM
Sorry. I read your post poorly--after the invasion, they were attacked, and
the result of the attack was a scattering? Or were they largely apprehended (or
killed)? 3660. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 10:54:16 AM
Wombat 3661. alistairconnor - 3/8/2004 11:14:24 AM
I remember during the war, Ace (and probably Con) trumpeted the existence of
Al Ansar as proof of connections between Iraq and Al Qaeda! Great sense of
humour. 3662. Wombat - 3/8/2004 11:15:55 AM
Jay: 3663. alistairconnor - 3/8/2004 11:16:23 AM
... and I remember thinking at the time that, concerning Al Ansar, the
evidence for concupiscence with Al Qaeda was rather stronger with respect to the
US than for Saddam...
3664. Wombat - 3/8/2004 11:20:53 AM
That part of the Iran-Iraq border is also very difficult to patrol and
monitor. 3665. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 11:21:44 AM
Thanks 'bat. Those are plausible reasons with the objective of taking Iraq.
But none of them really justify leaving an al qaeda group in place when the
objective is the disarmament and elimination of terrorism. Or I'm blowing smoke?
3666. Wombat - 3/8/2004 11:24:45 AM
Jay: 3667. jexster - 3/8/2004 11:41:28 AM
Zabriskie on Iraq: "There is Anger Everywhere" 3668. jexster - 3/8/2004 11:44:03 AM
Basic
Law Signing: "Fallout from Crisis Remains" - "The Damage Has Been Done"
3669. jexster - 3/8/2004 11:46:39 AM
Ansar Al Islam was protected by Saddam didn't ya know that? Fixed the fella's
broken leg 3670. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 12:21:19 PM
3661 3671. jexster - 3/8/2004 12:37:56 PM
Chatting with an Arab American the other day...he predicted two outcomes flat
out: 3672. concerned - 3/8/2004 3:24:05 PM
More bad news for jexster and America haters in general: Iraqi Governing
Council Signs Interim Constitution 3673. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 3:47:17 PM
Yes, this is why one shouldn't be crowing about the effects of early,
developing news stories. 3674. jayackroyd - 3/8/2004 3:48:10 PM
concerned, 3675. concerned - 3/8/2004 3:52:46 PM
LOL! 3676. jexster - 3/8/2004 4:15:52 PM
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence after all. 3677. jexster - 3/9/2004 7:49:29 AM
He said it... 3678. jexster - 3/9/2004 7:56:20 AM
The Bushies called him the "George Washington of Iraq". They bust balls at
the CIA, DIA and State Dept to ram his fraudulent intelligence through. They
peddled his lies to sell us a war so Bush could get votes. They wrapped him in a
kafiah and prepared him to enter Baghdad in triumph. Then they thought better of
the idea.... 3679. jexster - 3/9/2004 7:58:13 AM
kefiah
3680. jexster - 3/9/2004 8:05:03 AM
Last week, Chalabi was among the five Shiites on Iraq's Governing Council
who refused to sign the interim constitution, 3681. jexster - 3/9/2004 8:12:43 AM
Juan Cole: 3682. jexster - 3/9/2004 8:19:29 AM
3683. jexster - 3/9/2004 8:30:24 AM
We are heroes in error. As far as we're concerned we've been entirely
successful. That tyrant Saddam is gone and the Americans are in Baghdad. What
was said before is not important. The Bush administration is looking for a
scapegoat. We're ready to fall on our swords if he wants. Ahmad Chalabi
3684. jexster - 3/9/2004 8:30:54 AM
SUCKERS!
3685. jayackroyd - 3/9/2004 8:45:03 AM
3676 3686. jexster - 3/9/2004 11:17:02 PM
Euros
Force Bush to Shut Up About Iran Nukes
3687. alistairconnor - 3/10/2004 4:56:20 AM
Tenet calls
Cheney a liar 3688. wonkers2 - 3/10/2004 10:23:02 AM
Lies, lies and more lies.
3689. jexster - 3/10/2004 11:10:37 AM
No AC...its part of the inside/outside game to chop some shrubbery. EMK set
it up with the Council of Foreign Relations speech. 3690. jexster - 3/10/2004 11:14:20 AM
3691. jexster - 3/10/2004 11:14:32 AM
3692. jexster - 3/10/2004 11:16:22 AM
Did the CIA agree with the contents of the Feith document?" asked Levin.
3693. jexster - 3/10/2004 11:19:10 AM
Matthew 3 3694. jexster - 3/10/2004 11:21:08 AM
and THAT's the name of that tune... 3695. jexster - 3/10/2004 1:00:50 PM
3696. JayAckroyd - 3/10/2004 2:55:24 PM
An interview
with a medic who is back from Iraq.
3697. jexster - 3/10/2004 3:16:08 PM
And THIS is at the heart of the CIA's plan to cut the weed-like shrub out of
the Garden.... 3698. jexster - 3/10/2004 3:18:36 PM
As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in
the garden. 3699. jexster - 3/10/2004 3:21:36 PM
While this commandeering of a narrow segment of both intelligence
production and American foreign policy matched closely with the well-published
desires of the neoconservative wing of the Republican Party, many of us in the
Pentagon, conservatives and liberals alike, felt that this agenda, whatever its
flaws or merits, had never been openly presented to the American people.
Instead, the public story line was a fear-peddling and confusing set of
messages, designed to take Congress and the country into a war of executive
choice, a war based on false pretenses, and a war one year later Americans do
not really understand. That is why I have gone public with my account
3700. jexster - 3/10/2004 3:22:09 PM
gonna be a FUN year!
3701. JayAckroyd - 3/10/2004 4:37:09 PM
Jexster's quote is from his link in 3695. It's written by a retired lt
colonel, Karen Kwiatkowski, who was working on mid-east intelligence at the
Pentagon. The story provides meat and detail underlying the widely reported
story that the intelligence that was used to justify the war was cooked up by
the office of special plans. 3702. jexster - 3/10/2004 6:21:10 PM
Its a BOMB Jay! 3703. jexster - 3/10/2004 6:22:48 PM
Look for other disaffected intel types to follow... 3704. jexster - 3/10/2004 7:20:02 PM
Where have we heard this before???? 3705. jexster - 3/10/2004 8:12:26 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Gunmen disguised as police shot to death two American
coalition officials and their Iraqi translator south of Baghdad after stopping
their car at a roadblock, the Polish military said Wednesday. The Americans were
the first U.S. civilians from the occupation authority to be killed in Iraq
(news - web sites).
3706. jexster - 3/10/2004 10:03:29 PM
3707. jexster - 3/10/2004 10:22:32 PM
Iraq:
Fourth Generation Warfare (4GW) Swamp 3708. JayAckroyd - 3/11/2004 3:17:21 PM
cnn: 3709. robertjayb - 3/11/2004 11:22:24 PM
Two more GI's killed in Iraq... 3710. jexster - 3/12/2004 10:44:03 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Two American soldiers were killed when their Humvee struck a
roadside bomb, the military said Friday. U.S. officials also worried that Iraqi
police — not impostors in their uniforms — may have been behind the shooting
deaths of two coalition staffers and their translator.
3711. jexster - 3/12/2004 1:07:54 PM
"the most crooked, lying bunch I have ever seen" 3712. jexster - 3/13/2004 4:22:08 AM
TIKRIT, Iraq (AFP) - Two US soliers were killed and five wounded, some of
them badly, in an explosion in northern Iraq (news - web sites), while the
coalition worried about infiltrators into the Iraqi police after two civilians
were gunned down. 3713. jexster - 3/13/2004 6:42:19 AM
Desperate Times For Desperados - 3714. robertjayb - 3/13/2004 10:30:44 AM
House of Bush, House of Saud 3715. OhioSTOPAS - 3/14/2004 9:02:30 AM
Thoughtful, in Message # 3648 noted
this startling story: 3716. OhioSTOPAS - 3/14/2004 9:06:53 AM
"Abu Musab Zarqawi, a Jordanian militant with ties to al-Qaida, is now blamed
for more than 700 terrorist killings in Iraq. 3717. jexster - 3/14/2004 11:31:24 AM
Wombat may be right...there's certainly motive and opportunity aplenty for
Iran...similarly there's ample m & o for Bush to have ignored the Zakawri
isn't there?
3718. jexster - 3/14/2004 11:33:23 AM
After all the roadmap to Middle East peace runs through
Baghdad! 3719. robertjayb - 3/14/2004 11:57:55 AM
Has anyone told the war president? 3720. jexster - 3/14/2004 11:59:20 AM
Is he "War president" again? 3721. wonkers2 - 3/14/2004 12:03:53 PM
Does anybody really feel safer now, as a result of Bush's war on terrorism.
3722. robertjayb - 3/14/2004 12:15:58 PM
"Mountain Storm" captures three, Kills twelve...
3723. robertjayb - 3/14/2004 12:24:59 PM
A dim view from down under...(The Age) 3724. robertjayb - 3/14/2004 12:52:25 PM
Riverbend on
Transitional Law...and Spring 3725. wonkers2 - 3/14/2004 4:38:20 PM
If Bush had crushed Sharon's nuts instead of Saddam's we wouldn't be under
attack by thousands of Muslim fanatics.
3726. jexster - 3/14/2004 8:10:13 PM
3727. jexster - 3/14/2004 8:57:57 PM
3728. jexster - 3/14/2004 9:10:38 PM
CBS News is reporting a growing movement among military families....why did
my son die?
3729. jexster - 3/14/2004 9:53:40 PM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Roadside bombs killed seven US soldiers in Iraq (news - web
sites), one just newly arrived, and wounded several other people over the
weekend as attackers use sneakier methods to conceal their weapons, officials
said
3730. jayackroyd - 3/15/2004 2:50:28 AM
Huge
car bomb found next to US embassy in Pakistan Reuters.
3731. jexster - 3/15/2004 5:29:44 AM
Spain to Withdraw Forces From Iraq By 6/30
3732. jexster - 3/15/2004 5:36:02 AM
US Death Toll in Iraq On the Rise 3733. jayackroyd - 3/15/2004 1:48:57 PM
Islamist
Shia's protest over the weekend in Iraq 3734. Al D - 3/15/2004 2:43:37 PM
jexster 3735. Al D - 3/15/2004 2:48:28 PM
jay 3736. jayackroyd - 3/15/2004 2:59:53 PM
Freedom's just fine Al. It would be fine in North Korea. It would be nice in
China. It's looking kinda dicey in Russia. Haiti's looking kind of mixed.
3737. Al D - 3/15/2004 3:11:41 PM
jay 3738. Al D - 3/15/2004 3:14:35 PM
jay, please don't Kerry me and say we should have toppled Saddam but we
should have done it a better way. Jay, I see you as a straight forward, honest
guy, not a WoW or a jexter the mad man, and I know you will vote for Kerry, but
won't you be holding your nose when you do it?
3739. vonKreedon - 3/15/2004 3:20:57 PM
Al - We should have given the UN process that was in place the support to do
its job. Instead this administration moved precipitously as the UN inspection
regime was making significant progress. Containment and inspection were working,
but we acted the imperial bully and went in with a coalition of the willing, the
coerced and the bribed to invade a country based on misuse and abuse of
intelligence. As a result we have toppled an evil regime, but have left the
actual enemies in the WoT unscathed, or at least less scacthed than actually
concentrating on the threats at hand. 3740. Al D - 3/15/2004 3:35:55 PM
von 3741. vonKreedon - 3/15/2004 3:43:50 PM
How is it folly to lay the misuse and abuse of intelligence to manipulate the
US electorate into supporting a war by the administration at the
administration's door? 3742. jayackroyd - 3/15/2004 3:52:38 PM
Al, 3743. judithathome - 3/15/2004 3:54:12 PM
> It is pure folly and politics to lay that whole trip at Bush's door.
3744. jayackroyd - 3/15/2004 3:55:33 PM
Al, 3745. Al D - 3/15/2004 3:59:38 PM
How is it folly to lay the misuse and abuse of intelligence to manipulate
the US electorate into supporting a war by the administration at the
administration's door?
3746. vonKreedon - 3/15/2004 4:02:24 PM
Jay - Blix and Baradei were in the process of showing that our intelligence
was wrong when the administration slammed the door. Baradei in particular was
specific in stating that the IAEA inspectors dilligently followed up every piece
of intel that was passed to them by the administration and in every case, in
every case, the intel proved to be incorrect. If the administration had been
serious about using war as a last resort this would have produced a pause to
further test the intel prior to committing to war. But instead we hurried on our
way to Baghdad lest more refutations of our intelligence basis for the war
should come to light and bolix the whole operation.
3747. judithathome - 3/15/2004 4:03:21 PM
It would seem Al can't handle the truth.
3748. vonKreedon - 3/15/2004 4:05:36 PM
Al - 3746 also addresses your 3745. Given the growing evidence that our intel
was shit we should have stood down, but instead we went ahead. Given the
statements made by the admin regarding the certainty of their intel, the known
abuse of the intel I feel justified in saying that this administration, like the
Spanish, lied to its electorate in hopes of manipulating them. Like the Spanish
government, this administration should be turned out of office for so abusing
those it governs.
3749. jexster - 3/15/2004 4:08:15 PM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - Three US citizens were believed killed and two others
wounded in the northern city of Mosul as insurgents sought to undermine
reconstruction efforts by attacking those rebuilding the country. 3750. jexster - 3/15/2004 4:09:33 PM
No president who lies to the American people in matters of war and peace
deserves re-election. 3751. judithathome - 3/15/2004 5:04:48 PM
So CNN is doing "Hunt for Bin Laden/Cave Warfare" updates. Can a capture be
far behind? Just how bad is it looking for Bush in the polls these days?
3752. jexster - 3/15/2004 7:28:40 PM
Caves in IRAQ?
3753. jexster - 3/15/2004 7:32:09 PM
Sunnis of Iraq "Apprehensive, Defiant" 3754. jexster - 3/15/2004 7:33:07 PM
Sistani-Linked
Groups begin Popular Campaign Against Interim Constitution
3755. jayackroyd - 3/15/2004 11:28:03 PM
3746 3756. robertjayb - 3/15/2004 11:46:12 PM
Saudis kill top al-Qaida official... 3757. PelleNilsson - 3/16/2004 1:12:07 AM
There is a curious similarity between WWI and GWII. In both cases
mjobilization meant war. The critical decisions msut have been taken in the
autumn of 2002.
3758. jayackroyd - 3/16/2004 1:37:32 AM
Earlier,actually. I'll have to dig my copy of Bush at War, but it was
some time in the summer. You may recall a staffer saying that you don't start an
advertising campaign in August; they waited until September to start building
the publi case.
3759. jexster - 3/16/2004 10:04:21 AM
UNITED NATIONS, March 15 — Hans Blix, the former chief United
Nations weapons inspector, said Monday that the Bush administration convinced
itself of the existence of banned weapons based on dubious findings before
invading Iraq and was not interested in hearing evidence to the contrary.
3760. jexster - 3/16/2004 10:07:25 AM
3761. jexster - 3/16/2004 10:23:48 AM
Batten
Down the Mosquito Netting 3762. robertjayb - 3/16/2004 10:38:45 AM
Blogger Josh Marshall (Talking Points Memo) touts this poll of: Iraqi Public Opinion... 3763. jexster - 3/16/2004 10:48:44 AM
Yes its interesting...they're split on the invasion and united in their
hatred of the US. Similar to the Oxford University Poll taken last September.
3764. PelleNilsson - 3/16/2004 1:14:26 PM
I have a question for Democrats. What is most important to you: the success
of the nation-building and democratization efforts in Iraq or the defeat of
George Bush?
3765. jayackroyd - 3/16/2004 1:20:35 PM
I'm no democrat, but the former. The two aren't in conflict though. The
success of that effort will not be clear before the election. Failure may be,
but success will not. And, as with the present administration, a Kerry
presidency would inherit a foreign policy that it would have to follow through
on, in most ways. 3766. jayackroyd - 3/16/2004 1:22:08 PM
I saw a quote from Kennedy in this regard. He was reviewing a foreign policy
initiative. He said "Well, I think this is a good idea, but I am not sure
whether the United States thinks it's a good idea."
3767. jayackroyd - 3/16/2004 1:25:00 PM
Oh, and one of most profound objections to this presidency is that I am
morally certain how they would answer the question. 3768. Wombat - 3/16/2004 1:29:07 PM
Pelle: 3769. jexster - 3/16/2004 1:54:25 PM
The axe is lying at the root of the Bush 3770. robertjayb - 3/16/2004 3:03:24 PM
Excerpt 4: House of Bush, House of Saud...(Salon)
3771. robertjayb - 3/16/2004 3:30:49 PM
It's all over now...Honduras abandons
3772. jayackroyd - 3/16/2004 3:55:00 PM
'bat 3773. PelleNilsson - 3/16/2004 4:04:55 PM
That is an Al D. sort of question; a false dichotomy 3774. marjoribanks - 3/16/2004 4:10:42 PM
I would like to see the Iraq goals reached, and a good economy, and Kerry in
the White House instead of Bush. There's no reason to think these desires must
be mutually exclusive. 3775. PelleNilsson - 3/16/2004 4:13:22 PM
As I said there are several ways of rationalizing oneself out of any moral
dilemma. One of them, albeit a bit primitive, is to deny that it exists.
3776. marjoribanks - 3/16/2004 4:18:20 PM
Piffle. 3777. marjoribanks - 3/16/2004 4:18:35 PM
Tell me, Pelle, when you root for the Swedish team to succeed in Olympic
hockey, do you also spend nights flagellating yourself about the "moral dilemma"
presented because you simultaneously do not wish the Russians to win? 3778. marjoribanks - 3/16/2004 4:19:49 PM
Both sides can't win. The nature of the process is that only one can win. You
want one to win. 3779. jexster - 3/16/2004 4:31:50 PM
3780. wonkers2 - 3/16/2004 4:35:53 PM
Pelle's "moral dilemma" is a hypothetical moral dilemma, not a real one for
him or for Democrats because neither he nor the Democrats are in a position to
do anything, either way, about events in Iraq. I am a Democrat, and I feel no
moral dilemma. I will vote for Kerry regardless of what happens in Iraq because
there are plenty of reasons to get rid of Bush which are equally if not more
important than Iraq. At the same time nothing would make me happier than to see
democracy and prosperity flower in Iraq. And I believe the U.S. is obligated to
do everyting it can reasonably do to make that happen.
3781. jexster - 3/16/2004 4:37:17 PM
The hand-lettered sign at the sidewalk memorial for the 200 victims of
last week's deadly train bombings starkly summed up a sentiment of many who came
to pay respects Monday afternoon. It read: "They
Died to Support Bush."
3782. jayackroyd - 3/16/2004 4:38:34 PM
There's more than one issue, Pelle. And how it was done does matter.
3783. jayackroyd - 3/16/2004 4:43:35 PM
Implicitly, what you're saying is a riff on the "why are you rooting for bad
news?" argument that you hear from Bush supporters. I agree that there is
something to that. There are people right now rooting for the jobs numbers to
stay bad. 3784. jexster - 3/16/2004 5:06:48 PM
Relatives of US Soldiers Killed in Iraq Protest Outside US
Base 3785. jexster - 3/16/2004 6:25:36 PM
Iraq: One Saddam for Another? 3786. Wombat - 3/16/2004 9:55:13 PM
As with others here, I have many reasons to vote against Bush that are
separate from the conduct of the administration's Iraq policy. A moral dilemma
would set in if the choice was between Kucinich and Bush. Since Kucinich is
running on advocating an immediate withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, I would be
hard put to vote for him, or for Bush. Fortunately Kucinich is not going to be
the Democratic nominee. If Kerry wins, he will not abandon Iraq; rather he will
be well equipped to put Iraq's development on a sounder footing. 3787. jexster - 3/16/2004 10:41:21 PM
and THAT is going to be a task....time will tell but I fear that a win would
not be worth as much as many desperate Dems might think... 3788. jexster - 3/17/2004 1:04:26 PM
Blast Destroys The Palestine Hotel in Central Baghdad
3789. marjoribanks - 3/17/2004 1:07:30 PM
Hello? 3790. judithathome - 3/17/2004 1:13:45 PM
Have you seen the film of it? I'd be surprised if it were only "shaken".
3791. robertjayb - 3/17/2004 1:15:32 PM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A powerful blast ripped through a Baghdad hotel and
neighboring houses Wednesday, killing several people and sending flames and
smoke into the night sky in the heart of the Iraqi capital.
3792. jayackroyd - 3/17/2004 1:37:29 PM
Reuters correspondent Luke Baker said several bodies were being pulled out
of the rubble of the small Mount Lebanon Hotel, used mainly by Iraqis and Arabs.
3793. jayackroyd - 3/17/2004 1:38:03 PM
Sorry Robert. Hadn't read down to you when I posted that.
3794. jexster - 3/17/2004 1:39:12 PM
No JAH... 3795. jexster - 3/17/2004 2:11:03 PM
Comments on ABC Iraq Poll 3796. judithathome - 3/17/2004 2:25:39 PM
You must be getting the GWB Texas feed...see pictures in International
Thread... 3797. jexster - 3/17/2004 6:10:24 PM
White House Vows to Stay the Course in Iraq
3798. jexster - 3/17/2004 6:14:57 PM
When the Iraqi people overwhelming call Saddam and Bush co-equals in evil, we
who fancy ourselves more englightened, intelligent, and well informed, more
"civilized" think they're "conflicted" , "confused" 3799. jayackroyd - 3/17/2004 6:47:27 PM
I don't think you should give any credence to polls in Iraq. There's a huge
cultural and political gap between how Iraqis have lived their lives and how
American pollsters gather information. I have no doubt that the pollsers have
recognized that and tried to minimize it, but the gap is too huge.
3800. jayackroyd - 3/17/2004 7:30:48 PM
So whaddya do with this.
3801. wonkers2 - 3/17/2004 7:42:51 PM
Richard Perle just called for Tenet's resignation on Chris Matthews'
Hardball. He said that Tenet has been at CIA for 10? years and the agency is in
terrible shape. And he blamed Tenet, not Chalabi, for the innacurate
intelligence on WMD. And he blamed Tenet for not emphasizing the danger to the
U.S. posed by developments in the Arab world. And he blamed the current attacks
on years of failure by the U.S. to respond to suicide and other attacks on U.S.
facilities and interests. Failure to respond breeds more attacks. [Matthews
should have asked him how he felt that worked in Israel which has responded
severely to each attack!] 3802. jayackroyd - 3/17/2004 8:27:03 PM
Wow. The wheels are coming off. Bush does NOT want Tenet wandering around in
the private sector.
3803. wonkers2 - 3/17/2004 9:17:42 PM
Holbrooke is a formidable man. He expressed contempt for Perle's refusal to
appear together with him on Matthews' show tonight. He said that Perle and
others have misrepresented Kerry's views on Iraq because Kerry supports staying
the course in Iraq but with a more effective (international) approach. Holbrooke
echoed a previous speaker's statement that there are an infinite number of
vulnerable soft targets in the U.S., London, etc. and that we absolutely can't
let terrorism succeed in its aims. The Bush administration's policy is failing
in Iraq and Afghanistan. We need to put more effort into nation-building in both
countries with a priority to security. We have turned much of Afghanistan back
over to the warlords who produce 90 percent of the world's heroin. We must
perservere in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
3804. robertjayb - 3/18/2004 12:51:26 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq March 18 — Mortars fired at a U.S. base near Baghdad killed
two American soldiers and wounded six others, the military said Thursday.
3805. jexster - 3/18/2004 10:45:32 AM
Message # 3801
3806. jexster - 3/18/2004 11:31:15 AM
3807. jexster - 3/18/2004 11:32:22 AM
3808. jexster - 3/18/2004 12:26:56 PM
The Shit Is Moving Inexorably Toward the Fan 3809. jexster - 3/18/2004 12:34:12 PM
3810. jexster - 3/18/2004 12:59:48 PM
3811. vonKreedon - 3/18/2004 2:00:42 PM
Reuters says that the Pakistanis have surrounded an unnamed "high
ranking" Al Qaeda figure. Stay tuned.
3812. marjoribanks - 3/18/2004 2:01:57 PM
Fuck, I should have bought those shares yesterday.
3813. marjoribanks - 3/18/2004 2:02:44 PM
Moral dilemma ! Moral dilemma ! 3814. vonKreedon - 3/18/2004 2:08:44 PM
Now the link is saying that they think that it's Zawahiri.
3815. vonKreedon - 3/18/2004 2:10:19 PM
And yeah, it would be beyond great if they caught bin Laden and Zawahiri and
anyone else in the organization. It would be even better if they get possession
of an org chart and other documents.
3816. jexster - 3/18/2004 4:57:46 PM
3817. jexster - 3/18/2004 4:59:16 PM
The CIA Strikes Back: Wilson at Berkeley 3818. robertjayb - 3/18/2004 9:10:31 PM
(AP) Two American soldiers were killed and two others were wounded in
fighting Thursday in central Afghanistan, the U.S. military said. 3819. jexster - 3/19/2004 1:21:58 AM
Lies and Incompetence 3820. jexster - 3/19/2004 1:28:30 AM
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are
3821. jexster - 3/19/2004 2:09:11 AM
Where are all the Iraqi "human rights" activists now? 3822. jayackroyd - 3/19/2004 4:34:18 AM
3813, 3814 3823. jexster - 3/19/2004 10:03:04 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi journalists walked out of a Baghdad news conference
by Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) on Friday in protest at
the lack of security and the killing of two Iraqi journalists by U.S. troops.
3824. jexster - 3/19/2004 10:24:57 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - A second US marine died of his wounds after a mortar attack
the previous day in western Iraq (news - web sites) that killed one of his
collegues and injured two others, a US military spokeswoman said.
3825. jexster - 3/19/2004 10:26:24 AM
3826. vonKreedon - 3/19/2004 11:40:29 AM
Unfortunately it is becoming less and less likely that the Pakistanis will
capture their high-value target, and even less likely that they will capture any
high-value documents. 3827. marjoribanks - 3/19/2004 12:30:26 PM
Well, it is a bit suspicious that all the flap about this "high value target"
occurred exactly while Musharraf was meeting with Powell and addressing a global
audience via CNN. 3828. jexster - 3/19/2004 1:52:00 PM
EXACTLY! 3829. jexster - 3/19/2004 1:52:44 PM
BTW..a Brit talking intelligence head on CNN, caught himself mid-Paki
yesterday... 3830. robertjayb - 3/19/2004 1:59:42 PM
Riverbend is
fretting... 3831. jexster - 3/19/2004 2:05:04 PM
the brains are slowly seeping out of Iraq 3832. jexster - 3/19/2004 2:19:43 PM
What a bungling idiot. 3833. jexster - 3/19/2004 3:18:39 PM
Dear MoveOn member, 3834. jexster - 3/19/2004 3:19:12 PM
3835. jexster - 3/19/2004 3:20:54 PM
3836. jexster - 3/19/2004 3:28:20 PM
3837. jexster - 3/19/2004 3:37:31 PM
At the cross her station keeping, 3838. judithathome - 3/19/2004 3:49:08 PM
Officials: No Price Tag For Iraq Yet 3839. robertjayb - 3/19/2004 10:07:08 PM
Iraq had better targets... 3840. robertjayb - 3/20/2004 11:59:45 AM
See Richard Clarke on 60 Minutes... 3841. judithathome - 3/20/2004 12:08:54 PM
I wouldn't miss this interview for the world!
3842. robertjayb - 3/20/2004 11:49:40 PM
Coalition Casualty Count... 3843. jexster - 3/21/2004 11:55:52 AM
Insurgents fired a rocket at U.S. troops in western Iraq, killing two
soldiers, while in Baghdad, rockets fired toward the U.S.-led coalition
headquarters Sunday killed two Iraqi civilians and injured an American soldier.
3844. jexster - 3/21/2004 11:57:42 AM
3845. jexster - 3/21/2004 12:01:52 PM
BAGHDAD, (AFP) - Iraq (news - web sites) is creating an army in record time
as it races towards sovereignty, but the slow arrival of funds promised by
Washington threatens to delay the process, a senior military official said.
3846. jexster - 3/21/2004 12:05:02 PM
Marjie sure knows her Pakis... 3847. jexster - 3/21/2004 2:10:14 PM
Pakistan declares cease fire... 3848. jexster - 3/21/2004 3:17:10 PM
The "Indispensable
Nation's" dispensable bullshit artist... 3849. robertjayb - 3/21/2004 10:32:31 PM
Logistics foulups hamper Iraq security...
3850. jexster - 3/22/2004 1:40:46 AM
Iraqi Minister calls Governing Council no more Democratic than Saddam
3851. neato - 3/22/2004 4:10:48 AM
Melbourne. The Age. 22 march 3852. neato - 3/22/2004 4:15:26 AM
What a fuckin disaster.
3853. PelleNilsson - 3/22/2004 8:55:40 AM
You can say that again.
3854. Wombat - 3/22/2004 8:58:47 AM
Nonsense! Having decapitated Hamas, the Israelis can expect that that the
organization will fold up and become an honest partner in the ongoing peace
process. Hamas will be so distraught and disorganized that it will lose its
capacity to retaliate, making Israel safe, and able to finish the job against
the Palestinian Authority.
3855. jayackroyd - 3/22/2004 9:03:42 AM
LOL
3856. jexster - 3/22/2004 9:39:53 AM
Another Stunt Bites the Dust - Tora Bora to Bora Bora - The
Sequel 3857. jexster - 3/22/2004 9:54:49 AM
"Roadmap" Made in Texas By Morons for morons: Hamas Vows All Out
War
3858. jexster - 3/22/2004 10:00:04 AM
Helicopters fire on Sheik Ahmed Yassin while he's in his wheelchair (as he
was leaving a mosque!!!). Palestinians take to streets in protest.
3859. PelleNilsson - 3/22/2004 10:07:10 AM
Israel has created a real martyr now. An old man, a spritual leader, a
paraplegic. His most cherished dream is now fulfilled. He will never be
forgotten. 3860. PelleNilsson - 3/22/2004 10:32:32 AM
Condoleezza Rice accirding to Reuters
3861. Wombat - 3/22/2004 10:51:58 AM
Respected Israeli defense correspondent Zeev Schiff described the Sharon
government's rationale: To show Hamas that the impending pull-out from Gaza
should not be seen as an Israeli defeat. Of course it will be seen as such
anyway.
3862. judithathome - 3/22/2004 10:58:24 AM
Flatulence ... pure unadultered flatulence. 3863. concerned - 3/22/2004 11:04:43 AM
That the Richard Clarke who was praising Bush's anti-terrorism efforts to the
heavens a year ago? Does Clarke suffer from a bipolar disorder, maybe?
3864. Macnas - 3/22/2004 11:17:51 AM
"The killing is ``unlawful'' and ``unacceptable,'' U.K. Foreign Secretary
Jack Straw said" 3865. marjoribanks - 3/22/2004 11:20:42 AM
An old man, a spritual leader, a paraplegic.... 3866. jexster - 3/22/2004 11:23:49 AM
Unfair, emotive, imagery. 3867. marjoribanks - 3/22/2004 11:26:27 AM
Er, try def 1. 3868. Macnas - 3/22/2004 11:28:36 AM
That is as may be Marj, but that imagery is what will feature largest in the
minds of people around the world. 3869. marjoribanks - 3/22/2004 11:37:27 AM
Fat lot of good another martyr does to Hamas. 3870. PelleNilsson - 3/22/2004 11:45:32 AM
Yes, that image will stick. And the EU foreign minsters will probably be
quite critical when they meet today (?). And then the Israeli and American right
will accuse Europe of increasing antisemitism. That's another fine mess you've
gotten us into, Ari.
3871. concerned - 3/22/2004 11:49:25 AM
The French War For Oil 3872. jayackroyd - 3/22/2004 12:22:59 PM
That the Richard Clarke who was praising Bush's anti-terrorism efforts to
the heavens a year ago? 3873. PelleNilsson - 3/22/2004 1:18:28 PM
I agree with marj that there is a lot of calculation behind this move. It
will not weaken Hamas, it will strengthen it and therefore weaken Arafat and the
PA. Sharon will continue to demand that Arafat clamp down on terrorism and
Arafat will be les and less able to deliver even if he wanted to. The
Palestinians will become increasingly radicalized. Sharon knows all this.
3874. thoughtful - 3/22/2004 1:27:29 PM
Tom Friedman on Imus this a.m. was saying that Sharon managed to marginalize
Arafat after the Camp David talks when it became clear that he was not to be an
agent for peace. The mistake they made was in not taking steps to fill the
vacuum with moderates. Instead Hamas filled the space and were taking credit for
israel's leaving some of their territories, declaring that violence against
israel is in fact working. So they had to do something to reduce Hamas' cred and
this is what they did. 3875. PelleNilsson - 3/22/2004 1:43:00 PM
But it won't reduce Hamas cred and Sharon knows that. And what Friedman calls
"a mistake" was not a mistake at all. That is the point I'm making.
3876. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:06:44 PM
There can be NO doubt, NO debate, NO dispute that Sharon did what he did
because he has Bush by the balls. 3877. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:07:01 PM
toys
3878. marjoribanks - 3/22/2004 2:11:37 PM
It is true that Sharon can press this advantage, make this bold gambit,
because the raw power equations in the ME have shifted decisively and the US now
has 100,000 troops where Saddam once ruled.
3879. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:14:26 PM
Not. 3882. marjoribanks - 3/22/2004 2:17:55 PM
Please. 3883. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:19:18 PM
Sharon counting on Bush to pull his chestnuts out of the fire? 3884. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:23:16 PM
The entire accumulated wisdom of the modern age marge (not the Victorian) can
be found in two films 3885. marjoribanks - 3/22/2004 2:23:55 PM
No. 3886. concerned - 3/22/2004 2:24:12 PM
Interesting example of marjoribank's partisan restraint here.
3887. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:25:11 PM
Bush and what army?
3888. marjoribanks - 3/22/2004 2:26:42 PM
I don't have a war movie fetish, jex. 3889. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:26:55 PM
Chance the Gardener: I like to watch. 3890. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:28:12 PM
Dennis Watson: You know, I've never met anyone like you in Washington before.
3891. jexster - 3/22/2004 2:33:49 PM
3892. jayackroyd - 3/22/2004 2:45:12 PM
Could you provide some reasoning here, jexster? It seems to me that having
basing capability in Iraq certainly does change the equation.
3893. jayackroyd - 3/22/2004 2:48:04 PM
This Clarke comment: 3894. marjoribanks - 3/22/2004 4:46:52 PM
It seems to me that having basing capability in Iraq certainly does change
the equation. 3895. Al D - 3/22/2004 5:19:23 PM
There were many question from reporters about the targeted assisation of
Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and whether U.S. policy had changed in regard to targeted
attacks on leaders. Isn't the policy about National leaders? Yassin is/was the
spiritual head of a terorist organization, an enemy not only of Isreal but also
of America. His death was called for. Look, Israel is at war with the PLO,
Hamas, HIzbollah, and most of the Palistinians. These groups are at war with
Israel, with the goal of driving them out of the ME. Having a state and peace is
of know importance with Israel there.
3896. wonkers2 - 3/22/2004 5:23:59 PM
Neither side's strategy seems to be producing good results!
3897. judithathome - 3/22/2004 5:25:16 PM
His death was called for 3898. Al D - 3/22/2004 5:25:25 PM
Also, I question all this talk about Sharon being emboldenedby U.S. troops in
Iraq. Israel has fought Jorday, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Lebonon and managed to do
quite well. When Iraq built an atomic energy plant, Israel took it out. I don't
imaging they asked permission from U.S.
3899. judithathome - 3/22/2004 5:30:16 PM
They didn't ask permission; what was meant was that they don't fear being
chastised by the US.
3900. Al D - 3/22/2004 6:00:41 PM
wonkers2 3901. judithathome - 3/22/2004 6:03:00 PM
YMMV.
3902. wonkers2 - 3/22/2004 6:03:26 PM
Al, we are pretty much in agreement on Israel/Palestine. At least on your
most recent post.
3903. Al D - 3/22/2004 7:33:57 PM
"Her facial expression gave me the impression that she had never heard the
term before," wrote Richard A. Clarke in a new book that is scathingly critical
of Bush's response to the 2001 terror attacks against New York and Washington.
The Associated Press obtained a copy of Clarke's book before its Monday
publication.
3904. jexster - 3/22/2004 7:35:37 PM
The Big Bad Bush By the Balls: WH "troubled" by assassination of
man in wheel chair coming from morning prayers 3905. jayackroyd - 3/22/2004 8:17:06 PM
Al, 3906. jexster - 3/22/2004 8:45:31 PM
Even THE SWISS have more balls than Bush! 3907. jexster - 3/22/2004 8:49:23 PM
Why did the Israelis assassinate an old man in a wheel chair? 3908. jexster - 3/22/2004 8:50:03 PM
Because GWB is Sharon's stooge and always has been. 3909. jexster - 3/22/2004 8:59:13 PM
THIS is what Sharon intended... 3910. jexster - 3/22/2004 9:11:02 PM
THIS is what Sharon intended... 3911. jexster - 3/22/2004 9:11:38 PM
THIS is what Sharon intended 3912. jexster - 3/22/2004 9:14:52 PM
And this my dear brown brother is why Sharon acted.... 3913. jexster - 3/22/2004 9:17:17 PM
and the Likooties are parading their flaks before any and every US media
camera they can find to try a dead man and justify his murder. 3914. jexster - 3/22/2004 9:19:31 PM
Message # 3894
3915. jexster - 3/22/2004 9:26:01 PM
The present government of Israel is no friend of the United States.
3916. jayackroyd - 3/22/2004 9:55:06 PM
3903 3917. Al D - 3/22/2004 11:12:19 PM
jay 3918. Al D - 3/22/2004 11:24:02 PM
jay
3919. jexster - 3/23/2004 12:05:45 AM
THIS little Marjie is why Sharon did what he, when, where and how he did
it... 3920. jexster - 3/23/2004 12:08:57 AM
Sistani: UN must not Legitimate Interim Constitution
3921. Al D - 3/23/2004 2:11:13 AM
Maybe the Israels have it right; knock off the clerics. They're the ones
issueing the fatwas. We should knock off Sistani, but it has to look as if the
Sunnis did it. If we knocked off all the clerics advocating Jihad, and paid the
other ones to talk against Jihad, the lesser Jihad that is, maybe we could
defeat the terrorists.
3922. concerned - 3/23/2004 2:29:21 AM
From "Embassy Attacks Thwarted, U.S. Says; Official Cites Gains Against Bin
Laden; Clinton Seeks $10 Billion to Fight Terrorism," Vernon Loeb, Washington
Post, A02, January 23, 1999: 3923. concerned - 3/23/2004 2:41:58 AM
One can't have it both ways. One can't deny that the Palestinians are
waging war in the only way they can and then accept Israel using the same
techniques. 3924. concerned - 3/23/2004 2:57:57 AM
Bush critic was passed over for top security post 3925. alistairConnor - 3/23/2004 3:34:30 AM
Al : Message #
2900I wish they would withdraw from all Palistinian territory, buil the
fence on the green line, exclude Palistinians from entering Israel.
3926. alistairConnor - 3/23/2004 3:49:54 AM
What's Sharon's strategy? Why now? He has his list of targets, he controls
the timetable. 3927. alistairConnor - 3/23/2004 3:59:08 AM
I'm wondering : what is Bush's objective now, in the middle east. For 2004.
3928. PelleNilsson - 3/23/2004 6:25:00 AM
Sharon's strategy is to torpedo the peace process. There can be no doubt
about it.
3929. Wombat - 3/23/2004 8:10:58 AM
A little known facet of Sheik Yassin's social welfare organization--from
which Hamas came--was that it applied for and was granted by Israel a permit to
operate in the then-occupied territories in the 1980s. The thinking was that a
"faith-based" organization could serve as a counterweight to the PLO. Since
Yassin had not changed his views on the existance Israel, one wonders what in
hell the Israelis were thinking at the time. 3930. alistairConnor - 3/23/2004 8:25:32 AM
one wonders what in hell the Israelis were thinking at the time.
3931. jayackroyd - 3/23/2004 8:39:56 AM
I do not hold Clinton responsible for 9/11, but he had 8 years to handle
UBL. Bush had something like 250 days. 3932. Wombat - 3/23/2004 8:42:43 AM
And for then taking US resources and devoting them to an attack on Iraq,
which was tangential to the "War on Terrorism."
3933. jayackroyd - 3/23/2004 8:42:45 AM
And I think it is utterly reprehensible that he has tacked control of Iraq
onto the fight against terrorism. 3934. jayackroyd - 3/23/2004 8:43:04 AM
Well said, 'bat.
3935. Dubai Vol - 3/23/2004 10:17:51 AM
Motives for attacking Iraq? Gee, I really can't believe I have to draw you
people a picture. It's so simple, and you people really are smart enough to
figure this out for yourselves.(Sigh) 3936. marjoribanks - 3/23/2004 10:23:40 AM
Er, Dubai, what it cost to surround/contain Saddam was a drop in the bucket
compared to the vast treasure that is being expended in Iraq right now and will
continue to flow from the US to Iraq for the forseeable future. 3937. Dubai Vol - 3/23/2004 10:31:15 AM
So what to do? Again, easy. Get rid of the problem, the Saddam regime. Yes,
you can argue that US policy in the '80s helped Saddam, and lots of other good
points, but that doesn't change the fact that post-Kuwaiti invasion, Saddam was
a problem that needed to be eliminated. IMO he gave sufficient reason to declare
war every time he fired on planes patrolling the no-fly zones. Just why the
elaborate excuse of WMD was necessary eludes me, though at the same time I think
the fact (yes, FACT) that he was in material breach of numerous UN resolutions
regarding his WMD programs was, again, more than enough reason to remove him.
3938. jayackroyd - 3/23/2004 10:32:25 AM
Gee, I really can't believe I have to draw you people a picture. It's so
simple, and you people really are smart enough to figure this out for
yourselves. 3939. Wombat - 3/23/2004 10:33:41 AM
Dubai: 3940. jayackroyd - 3/23/2004 10:35:54 AM
Just why the elaborate excuse of WMD was necessary eludes me, though at
the same time I think the fact (yes, FACT) that he was in material breach of
numerous UN resolutions regarding his WMD programs was, again, more than enough
reason to remove him. 3941. jexster - 3/23/2004 10:37:10 AM
I'll leave you alone Dubai...Comments dure your last appearance were so
wildly off the mark, I needn't say more.. 3942. Dubai Vol - 3/23/2004 10:37:11 AM
So what to do? Again, easy. Get rid of the problem, the Saddam regime. Yes,
you can argue that US policy in the '80s helped Saddam, and lots of other good
points, but that doesn't change the fact that post-Kuwaiti invasion, Saddam was
a problem that needed to be eliminated. IMO he gave sufficient reason to declare
war every time he fired on planes patrolling the no-fly zones. Just why the
elaborate excuse of WMD was necessary eludes me, though at the same time I think
the fact (yes, FACT) that he was in material breach of numerous UN resolutions
regarding his WMD programs was, again, more than enough reason to remove him.
3943. jayackroyd - 3/23/2004 10:39:49 AM
I forgot to mention that it's a pleasure to see you here in the thread, Vol.
You provide a unique and valued perspective.
3944. jexster - 3/23/2004 10:41:19 AM
Watch your back though, Dr. Cole knows his Middle Eastern onions...
3945. Wombat - 3/23/2004 10:41:48 AM
Based on the Bush administration's rationale, quick and decisive action was
needed--or was it? Could the US have waited several more months to bring more
forces into the region, and to keep trying to bring on board more allies,
instead of antagonizing them? Could the United States (and Britain) have
continued to attack Iraqi installations in the no-fly zones, perhaps in
conjunction with insurgent activity in the north? This might have actually
goaded Saddam into making the first overt move. We don't know.
3946. jexster - 3/23/2004 10:42:39 AM
Why yes I did. 3947. Dubai Vol - 3/23/2004 10:43:20 AM
Hi marjori, I broke my tirade in two as you see. I think you overestimate the
regional anger over Iraq; most are happy to be able to do business there again.
Arab anger at the US is almost entirely based on Israel. Other issues are just
excuses to bash the US. Meanwhile they are all at the US embassy applying for a
visa. 3948. jexster - 3/23/2004 10:43:29 AM
You wanna take this to Election thread TD?
3949. marjoribanks - 3/23/2004 10:45:32 AM
The "wink" the United States has given Israel in the wake of its
assassination of the spiritual leader of Hamas, or the Islamic Resistance
Movement, exemplifies once again how successful Israel has been at aligning its
fight against militant Palestinians with the US war on terror. 3950. jexster - 3/23/2004 10:48:23 AM
This is actually going to be rather fun, if you just like to watch..if you're
ass isn't in the Bad Bush... 3951. Wombat - 3/23/2004 10:54:19 AM
The immediate results are the following: 3952. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:02:58 AM
2 ways of looking at Wombat.. 3953. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:04:31 AM
The Homeless carry signs "Will Work for Food" 3954. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:22:32 AM
3955. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:25:02 AM
Iraq One Year Later: 3956. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:35:11 AM
Juan Cole 3957. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:37:04 AM
Sorry Dubai... 3958. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:38:18 AM
"We were taken for a ride" President of Poland 3959. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:40:34 AM
A man walked into a bar and asked the bartender, "Hey, have you heard the
latest Pollack joke?" The bartender replied, coldly, "No. And I'll have you know
I'm Polish." That's O.K.," said the man, "I'll talk slow." 3960. jexster - 3/23/2004 11:42:05 AM
Waxed. 3961. PelleNilsson - 3/23/2004 11:57:22 AM
I think Dubai's assessment of feelings in Arab countries is essentially
correct but I cannot agree that those feelings were enough to prompt the US into
war. 3962. jayackroyd - 3/23/2004 12:21:25 PM
Bushite calculations in (obviously) approving 3963. jayackroyd - 3/23/2004 12:21:26 PM
Bushite calculations in (obviously) approving 3964. vonKreedon - 3/23/2004 5:40:31 PM
Assassinating those who run terror organizations does not bother me 3965. vonKreedon - 3/23/2004 5:42:13 PM
The Mossad used to be very good at this form of assassination, but 3966. Al D - 3/23/2004 6:23:48 PM
In my humble opinion Israel's attack was valid, necessary, and should have
been followed up with an attack on the new leader of Hamas who was out there
surronded by supporters ranting about how Hamas would get even for the attack.
There would have been much damage, which I do not consider colateral. The
biggest mistake Isreal made was back in the '80's when they got Arafat with a
host of PLO guys and shiped them off to Tunesia. They should have sank that
boat.
3967. Al D - 3/23/2004 6:47:13 PM
I want to talk about the cliché the end does not justify the means. Perhaps
sometimes it does. There is no doubt in my mind that President Roosevelt knew in
1940 that the U.S. could not avoid war. And yet he ran with the promise he would
got get into war in Europe. I imagine few Americans had much knowledge about
what was going on in the far east. No matter what F.D.R. believed is quite
beside the point, for even though he had much clout with Americans, telling them
he was going to take them to war would have made Wilkie President. 3968. jexster - 3/23/2004 8:01:42 PM
Why don't they make ice in Poland? 3969. SnowOwl - 3/23/2004 8:06:03 PM
I want to talk about the cliché the end does not justify the means.
3970. robertjayb - 3/23/2004 8:20:04 PM
Blasts in Baghdad, says CNN.
3971. Al D - 3/23/2004 9:37:47 PM
Snow Owl 3972. jexster - 3/24/2004 12:40:55 AM
THe biggest enemy of the US in the Middle East is Ariel Sharon...and he has
Bush by the balls.. 3973. PelleNilsson - 3/24/2004 1:20:59 AM
Al 3974. alistairConnor - 3/24/2004 3:50:03 AM
There is also something called the Geneva Accords, a courageous attempt to
cut the Gordian knot by fronting up to the essential issues (rather than leaving
them till later, as every other proposal has). Though it has no official status,
it is the blueprint that will be applied when a settlement is finally reached,
give or take a few minor details. It involves Israeli withdrawal to the Green
Line, renunciation of the Palestinian right of return, and division of
Jerusalem. It'll probably be at least ten years before it's implemented, and
lots of blood will be shed before then.
3975. alistairConnor - 3/24/2004 3:55:06 AM
Another thing occurred to me about Sharon and his control of the calendar :
Knowing that the assassination will provoke revenge terrorist attacks in a week
or two, why would he program it just two weeks before Passover, the holiest time
of the Jewish year?
3976. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 4:32:31 AM
Would you agree that the goal of the Palistinians is to drive Israel out
of the Middle East? 3977. alistairConnor - 3/24/2004 4:45:59 AM
Just one last remark about Sharon and timing. 3978. jexster - 3/24/2004 11:08:16 AM
3979. jexster - 3/24/2004 11:25:30 AM
Everyone should be clear that murdering Yassin bestowed no operational
advantage on Israel. Yassin was in the political and religious wing of Hamas. He
did not plan or carry out tactical terrorist actions, though he certainly
approved of them as a form of national liberation struggle (on the other hand he
did sometimes talk of trying to achieve a 100-year truce with Israel; that
aspect of this complex figure is gone, opening the way for a new generation of
violent young men to come to the fore in Hamas, with no restraint whatsoever on
their thirst for vengeance). Yassin was an old half-blind man in a wheel chair.
Israel could have arrested him and tried him anytime Sharon chose. Sharon could
even have had him executed after a fair trial, staying within the bounds of the
rule of law. Who could have objected to a terrorist being tried and sentenced?
To take him out, using American missiles, was just a fancy way of murdering him,
destined to produce more hatred against the United States at a time when we
don't need that. It is a form of state terrorism, designed to instill terror in
a civilian population. 3980. jexster - 3/24/2004 11:52:35 AM
Matthew 9:36 3981. PelleNilsson - 3/24/2004 11:55:56 AM
Shallow stuff of the kind I could turn out reams of in my sleep. Listen and
learn in this thread jex. Eschew the usual hacks and you may actually learn
something. For example that the negatives Cole lists are in fact seen as
positives by Sharon et al.
3982. jexster - 3/24/2004 1:33:29 PM
Clarke did suffer one setback in his 30-year career in high office, though
he doesn't mention it in his book. James Baker, the first President Bush's
secretary of state, fired Clarke from his position as director of the
department's politico-military bureau. (Bush's NSC director, Brent Scowcroft,
hired him almost instantly.) I doubt we'll be hearing from Baker on this
episode: He fired Clarke for being too close to Israel—not a point the Bush
family's political savior is likely to make in an election season. Fred
Kaplan 3983. jexster - 3/24/2004 1:34:12 PM
Give the Butcher of Beruit some of the SAAB jets the Poles wouldn't take...
3984. Al D - 3/24/2004 4:55:07 PM
Pelle 3985. Al D - 3/24/2004 4:59:05 PM
Pelle 3986. Al D - 3/24/2004 5:07:39 PM
jay 3987. Jenerator - 3/24/2004 5:07:50 PM
From Islamonline.net, the
Muslim justification of suicide bombings from the Fatwa collections dated 22
March 24 from Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi. 3988. Jenerator - 3/24/2004 5:10:14 PM
I see that reciprocal harm is okay so long as it's inflicted on the enemy -
and according to this, all Jews are the enemy. Women, children and
civilians are viable targets for suicude bombers.
3989. vonKreedon - 3/24/2004 5:27:59 PM
On a strictly practical level, leaving aside the morality of indiscriminate
killing of civilians, the Fatwa quoted above is wrong. In the first Intifada the
Palestinians had nothing at their disposal but stones, and an unwillingness to
be repressed. The first Intifada was a remarkable success, paving the way for
the return of the PLO, the creation of the Palestinia Authority and the
acceptance of the inevitability of a Palestinian state. All this with nothing
but stones and civil disobedience. 3990. jexster - 3/24/2004 5:37:29 PM
Bush
Obsesssion With Iraq Undermined GWOT 3991. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 9:44:20 PM
Since you say "in the region" I assume you are not saying more Palistinian
Arabs in Israel. That certainly would change the dynamics. Israel is a
Democracy, so if the Arab population ever exceeded the Jewish population it
would cause a interesting dilemma/ 3992. Al D - 3/24/2004 9:52:40 PM
How would you like to be a citizen in a country with an Arab majority?
3993. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 9:57:05 PM
As opposed to Israeli?
3994. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 9:58:31 PM
And do you mean "Arab" or "islamic"?
3995. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 10:05:12 PM
Bill Cohen (former Senator from my home state of Maine, republican, SecDef
under Clinton [a uniter, not a divider]) 3996. Al D - 3/24/2004 10:08:34 PM
I meant Arab. Perhaps like in Indonesia wouldn't be bad, and maybe Turkey
would pass, but Algeria, Sudan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yeman, or any other
Arab country. Are you equating these countries with Israel. I would love to go
to Israel, maybe even to live there.
3997. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 10:13:26 PM
No, I am saying that Israel is facing a demographic crisis, and the more
Palestinian territory and citizens it absorbs the more difficult that crisis
will become. Are you suggesting that Israel can deny Arab citizens the vote, and
remain a democracy?
3998. Al D - 3/24/2004 10:15:21 PM
Cohan is a good man, as many Democrats and Repulicans are good men. Some, I
think, put the country above their political gain, but I don't think many do on
either side of the aisle. I believe governmant is like unions, a necessary evil.
Our Founding Fathers didn't think much of government and did all it could to
restrain it, but it isn't working. When countries get into a problem like a
depression or war, they will give their freedoms away to the govenment, like
sheep running from the wolf to the shepard.
3999. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 10:17:45 PM
Well, Al, I think Clarke is one of those guys who put their country ahead of
personal gain. I may be wrong. This may be about book sales. I try to be
cynical, but it's hard to keep up. But all I've read about this guy feeds the
notion that this is a principled position. Like Beers' was.
4000. rdbrewer - 3/24/2004 10:19:54 PM
Yowsa!
4001. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 10:20:46 PM
Good to see you rdb. Please chime in.
4002. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 10:21:22 PM
Oh, I get it. That was just a millenial. Congratulations. 4003. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 10:25:08 PM
Good news in Iraq, from TNR: 4004. Al D - 3/24/2004 11:10:34 PM
I don't impugn Clarke's motives;if he is convinced that the war in Iraq is
such a distraction from the war on terrorist, he may think the best thing for
America is Bush's defeat in November. And he may be trying to make a fast buck.
Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but there are some serious issues that should
be discussed in a rational way. I am not convinced his attack is rational, but
I'll reserve judgement until I read his book and hear from others.
4005. jayackroyd - 3/24/2004 11:18:33 PM
Fair enough. I haven't read the book yet, either.
4006. wonkers2 - 3/25/2004 12:28:38 AM
Clarke is very bright, a straight shooter with an impeccable reputation who
serving with distinction in two Republican and one Democrat administration. I
believe he said he registered in Virginia in the last election as a Republican
and voted for both Bushes and Reagan. (Not sure about that.) He said today under
oath that he would not accept an appointment by Kerrey if he wins the election.
4007. arkymalarky - 3/25/2004 12:50:46 AM
He also said he thought Bush I was the best president of the four he worked
under wrt security.
4008. PelleNilsson - 3/25/2004 2:07:04 AM
Alistair: There is also something called the Geneva Accords
4009. Al D - 3/25/2004 2:39:08 AM
Wonkers2 4010. alistairConnor - 3/25/2004 3:42:13 AM
Good to see you rdb. Please chime in. 4011. jexster - 3/25/2004 10:09:31 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - The countdown to sovereignty in Iraq (news - web sites) began
in earnest with a UN team due to arrive in Baghdad imminently to advise on who
should lead the violence-wracked country from July. 4012. jexster - 3/25/2004 10:10:58 AM
4013. jexster - 3/25/2004 11:29:28 AM
An article in the Friday, March 29 (sic) Washington Post pointed to the
long-expected opening of Phase III of America’s war with Iraq. Phase I was the
jousting contest, the formal “war” between America’s and Iraq’s armies that
ended with the fall of Baghdad. Phase II was the War of National Liberation
waged by the Baath Party and fought guerilla-style. Phase III, which is likely
to prove the decisive phase, is true Fourth Generation war, war waged by a wide
variety of non-state Iraqi and other Islamic forces for objectives and motives
that reach far beyond politics. 4014. jexster - 3/25/2004 11:30:42 AM
4015. jexster - 3/25/2004 11:32:32 AM
Demonstrations, Denunciations in Iraq over Sharon Murder of Sheikh
Yassin 4016. jexster - 3/25/2004 12:04:42 PM
CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (Reuters) - The former chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq
warned on Monday that the United States is in "grave danger" of destroying its
credibility at home and abroad if it does not own up to its mistakes in Iraq.
4017. jexster - 3/25/2004 12:36:51 PM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two U.S. soldiers were killed and four wounded in two
separate attacks on convoys in Iraq (news - web sites) on Thursday, the U.S.
military said 4018. rdbrewer - 3/25/2004 8:37:26 PM
Uncovered from one of Saddam's mass graves. 4019. jayackroyd - 3/25/2004 10:32:14 PM
I'm curious, and I don't know. Did containment work with respect to this
issue? We know it worked wrt to Kurdish freedom, and WMD. Was the Hussein regime
engaging in this kind of brutality in this millenium? I honestly don't know. Do
you, rdb?
4020. rdbrewer - 3/25/2004 10:33:59 PM
What does that matter?
4021. jayackroyd - 3/25/2004 10:44:11 PM
Because if containment had succesfully stopped the brutality of the regime
the need for an immediate invasion was eliminated, and the decision to invade
without international support and without a good plan for the aftermath was not
justified. 4022. rdbrewer - 3/25/2004 11:53:23 PM
What do you mean by "containment" vis-a'-vis brutality.
4023. rdbrewer - 3/25/2004 11:53:30 PM
?
4024. Al D - 3/26/2004 2:48:47 AM
Jay 4025. jexster - 3/26/2004 11:14:37 PM
AGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. troops and guerrillas armed with mortars and
rocket-propelled grenades battled for hours in the alleyways of Fallujah on
Friday, killing a Marine and at least five Iraqis, including an ABC News
cameraman. 4026. jexster - 3/26/2004 11:15:41 PM
4027. jexster - 3/26/2004 11:18:06 PM
I wouldn't trade Michael Curtin's life for fuckin low life like Saddam
Hussein
4028. jexster - 3/26/2004 11:25:37 PM
Against the Three-State "Solution" in Iraq 4029. Al D - 3/27/2004 4:29:43 PM
I don't know how much good it does to post on this Thread, but I have been
watching a rerun of Cohen's testimoney before the 9/11 commission. I take him to
be a straight shooter, more interested in what is good for America than
political points. He points out, when asked why Clinton did not do more, that
the poisonous atmosphere that existed then, all the claims it was just "wag the
dog" created an atmosphere not condusive to action. Much of what he says is
accurate and should be taken seriously.
4030. judithathome - 3/27/2004 4:42:49 PM
Like what? Selling them Bibles? 4031. wonkers2 - 3/27/2004 4:43:04 PM
The wages must not be high enough.
4032. Al D - 3/27/2004 4:48:25 PM
Judith 4033. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 4:50:09 PM
Yes, Cohen is a straight shooter. I've actually spoken to him a couple of
times, in my youth. Yes, I believe that Clinton was constrained the virulence of
his opposition. But that wouldn't explain why Bush didn't take action. I do
think (having just read this piece
by Condleeza Rice written in 2000) the Bushies eyes were on states with weapons
of mass destruction, not stateles threats, even though they been behind the
embassy bombings at the attack on the Cole. Bin Laden and the Taliban are not
mentioned. 4034. judithathome - 3/27/2004 4:50:18 PM
Well, I'm hurt that you would feel this way but of course I understand why.
4035. judithathome - 3/27/2004 4:52:20 PM
4034 is to Al D of course. After all these years of me suggesting we ignore
one another, he finally decides it's time.
4036. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 4:53:07 PM
How was it then possible for a young boy from Marin County, Ca. able in
infiltrate into UBL's al Qaida, and even to meet the great man himself? I mean
no critique here, 4037. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 4:56:12 PM
This
link works. 4038. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 4:57:29 PM
Second excerpt: 4039. Al D - 3/27/2004 5:17:17 PM
the entailed years of bad food and diarrhea. 4040. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 5:29:15 PM
While there is no mention of al Qaida or UBL in this article, that is not
to say she had no concern. She is straight about the need to remove Saddam, a
position you do not agree with, so it should surprise no one the Bush
administration had that as a goal. 4041. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 5:29:22 PM
the United States must mobilize whatever resources it can, including
support from his opposition, to remove him. 4042. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 5:33:21 PM
Moreover they falsely used the 9/11 attacks and lied about intelligence to
generate the political capital to support the war. 4043. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 5:35:28 PM
It's their misfortune that the repo man happens to be Clarke who has shown a
remarkably candid demeanor, has a solid track record, is politically deft, and
may also have the added benefit of having the truth on his side.
4044. Al D - 3/27/2004 5:46:06 PM
I imagine when you say "they glossed over the other claims" you mean imminent
threat and ties to 9/11. If I am correct, than all I can say is that Bush said
just the oppocite to each of these. As to atomic weapons, there is no doubt had
we not removed Saddam, and had the sanctions been lifted, as France and Germany
wished, he would have had atomic weapons down the road, probably by '05 or '06.
Do you really think it would have been better to wait until he had them and
maybe used them? If he did use them, if would have been on Israel. No wonder the
Jewish neocoms were concerned. If the Irish thought he would use them on them, I
imagine Macnas would be concerned, or even American Irish.
4045. Al D - 3/27/2004 5:54:32 PM
Moreover they falsely used the 9/11 attacks and lied about intelligence to
generate the political capital to support the war. 4046. Al D - 3/27/2004 5:58:33 PM
Jay 4047. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 6:01:05 PM
All three claims. There was no doubt that he had no nukes. El Baredi said so,
directly. It's all very well to say that if sanctions had been lifted, then
something different might have happened. But they hadn't been. The US was
opposed to doing so, and so was I. The steady ratcheting up of pressure from the
international community should have been at least attempted. But that dialogue
couldn't happen, expressly because of Bush's use of pretexts and false threats.
4048. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 6:31:03 PM
One last thing, and then the dog needs to go out. 4049. jayackroyd - 3/27/2004 6:32:12 PM
As I've said before, the sanctions could be a permenant solution; they
were harming the population without harming 4050. Al D - 3/27/2004 7:28:16 PM
What allies other than France, Germany, Russia and China have we lost, and it
is even quite silly to say our relationship has been fractured, which means
broken; maybe they are bent a little, but hardly broken.
4051. wonkers2 - 3/28/2004 11:52:58 AM
The list of allies we didn't lose would be a much shorter one!
4052. robertjayb - 3/28/2004 12:45:33 PM
Powell, et al., suckered by Curveball (LATimes)
4053. Al D - 3/28/2004 7:29:38 PM
womkers2 4054. jayackroyd - 3/28/2004 9:04:29 PM
Let's see. We've lost most of the OECD, most of the security council, just
lost a government in Spain, alienated the UN, are seeing cold feet from one of
our five allies who have provided (all of 1500) troops (Poland), and have pissed
off the entire Islamic world, according to polls anyway. Even Canada is pissed,
and the president has been trying to mend fences with Mexico for the last six
months. 4055. Al D - 3/28/2004 9:21:18 PM
Will you please mention one Nation that has broken relations with the U.S.
You make a lot of assertions as if they are fact when they are not. We have
disagreements with our allies, nothing in the world different about that. We
live in very dangerous times. We are at war with terrorists, not just al Qaida.
Have you listened to Hamas? The last thing America needs is what is going on
right now. Why do you suppose that Cohen said that the fight against terrorism
goes right through Bagdad?
4056. jayackroyd - 3/28/2004 9:32:05 PM
I didn't see that Cohen quote. Can you give me a reference? 4057. wonkers2 - 3/28/2004 9:40:04 PM
I just returned from seeing "The Battle of Algiers" for the second time after
34 years. Quite a movie with lessons for Iraq and Palestine. I can see why they
were showing it at the Army War College and the Pentagon after Iraq turned to
shit last year. The movie was an amazing piece of work. When the movie
originally came out in 1967, parallels with Vietnam were drawn, and the Black
Panthers used it as a training film. For me the movie illustrates the futility
of what is going on now in Palestine, the futility of what the Arabs are doing
and even more so Israel's attempts to repress the Palestinians with military
force and reprisals. 4058. Al D - 3/29/2004 2:50:14 AM
Jay 4059. jexster - 3/29/2004 3:16:22 AM
Shiites
Out to Burn Emperor Bush and His Phoney Constitution 4060. jexster - 3/29/2004 3:30:09 AM
Will you please mention one Nation that has broken relations with the U.S.
You make a lot of assertions as if they are fact when they are not. We have
disagreements with our allies, nothing in the world different about that
4061. jayackroyd - 3/29/2004 3:31:39 AM
Al, 4062. jexster - 3/29/2004 3:34:07 AM
Worst of all perhaps, no one believes what we say on matters of significant
international concern. 4063. jexster - 3/29/2004 3:44:11 AM
We are at war with terrorists, not just al Qaida. Have you listened to
Hamas? 4064. jexster - 3/29/2004 12:35:41 PM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. soldier was killed on Monday when a bomb was
detonated beside a military convoy near the flashpoint town of Falluja west of
Baghdad, the U.S. army said. 4065. robertjayb - 3/29/2004 2:00:41 PM
Riverbend goes
shopping in Sistanistan...finds it tiring 4066. vonKreedon - 3/29/2004 2:16:11 PM
The phrase I heard used post-9/11 was "global terrorists" or "terror
organizations with global reach". The question was asked, I think of Fleisher,
"Are we at war with the IRA?" and the answer was no because that was a regional
issue. So, given that context, we are NOT at war with Hamas or Hizbollah.
4067. jexster - 3/29/2004 4:53:25 PM
The Battle That Wasn't 4068. Al D - 3/29/2004 7:06:57 PM
In other words, no matter what Hamas or Hizbollah say they intend to do to
us, we have to wait until they strike before we consider them at war with us.
When did UBL issue his fatwa? Certainly long before 9/11 or the attack on the
Cole. We better start paying attention to what these terrorists say they intend.
4069. Wombat - 3/30/2004 8:13:17 AM
Al: 4070. jayackroyd - 3/30/2004 2:49:55 PM
Paul Bremer tells the truth: 4071. vonKreedon - 3/30/2004 3:10:58 PM
Al - I'm unaware of Hamas or Hizbollah either threatening or actually
operating outside of their specific areas, Hamas in the occupied
territories/Isreal and Hizbollah in southern Lebanon/Isreal. Can you show me
otherwise?
4072. jexster - 3/30/2004 5:23:01 PM
Don't hold your breath. 4073. jexster - 3/30/2004 5:27:23 PM
Bush lies, people die 4074. jexster - 3/30/2004 5:27:24 PM
Bush lies, people die 4075. robertjayb - 3/30/2004 6:14:44 PM
We are so way, way through the looking glass...
4076. jexster - 3/30/2004 10:44:44 PM
One of our Late Moronic Neoclowns chortled and chirped about Bush's Big
Democracy Speech a few months. 4077. jexster - 3/30/2004 10:48:27 PM
Is the failure of the Arab Summit a Failure of Bush's Democratization
Plan?[rhetorical] 4078. jexster - 3/30/2004 10:48:37 PM
Hey did ya hear the one about how Saddam gassed his own people with Yellow
Cake or was it with horse methane. 4079. jexster - 3/30/2004 10:49:46 PM
Liberator President 4080. jexster - 3/31/2004 9:36:14 AM
FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - A crowd of cheering Iraqis dragged charred and
mutilated bodies through the streets of the town of Falluja Wednesday after an
ambush on two vehicles that witnesses said killed at least three
4081. jexster - 3/31/2004 9:37:52 AM
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) - At least seven people, including five US-led coalition
soldiers, were killed in attacks in western Iraq (news - web sites), while angry
residents mutilated two of the victims and vowed to make Fallujah "the cemetery
of the Americans".
4082. jexster - 3/31/2004 9:40:52 AM
4083. jexster - 3/31/2004 11:34:48 AM
Our local yokels would have us believe that if you are against Bush's War you
are for Saddam (do I have that about right Al?) 4084. jexster - 3/31/2004 11:35:59 AM
And its even worse than most think. I don't believe most folks realize just
how unpalatable the very best among our choices truly is. 4085. jexster - 3/31/2004 1:39:27 PM
Changing Status of Shiites in Arab World 4086. jexster - 3/31/2004 1:40:48 PM
Bremmer said last June that "We will impose our will on Iraq" 4087. robertjayb - 3/31/2004 6:02:52 PM
Where are the rose petals, Mr. WAR President?
4088. judithathome - 3/31/2004 7:11:01 PM
I just saw those scenes on CNN and it was a sanitized version...after seeing
those people react that way, I say screw them. These were people over there
trying to help them. 4089. jexster - 3/31/2004 8:17:32 PM
I hope so Judith...at the very least we desperately need a genuine
Congressional investigation into Bush plans, into the reality on the ground, and
available options plus a truly independent investigaion into how we got to this
mess. 4090. jexster - 3/31/2004 11:13:55 PM
FALLUJAH, Iraq - In a scene reminiscent of Somalia, frenzied crowds dragged
the burned, mutilated bodies of four American contractors through the streets of
a town west of Baghdad on Wednesday and strung two of them up from a bridge
after rebels ambushed their SUVs. 4091. jexster - 3/31/2004 11:18:33 PM
Gee Al did you hear what Hamas said? 4092. jexster - 4/1/2004 9:58:31 AM
FALLUJAH, Iraq - Insurgents attacked a U.S. military convoy and a Humvee was
burned Thursday near Fallujah, witnesses said, a day after the grisly killing
and mutilation of four American contract workers in the city. The top U.S.
administrator in Iraq (news - web sites) said the deaths would not go
unpunished. 4093. Wombat - 4/1/2004 10:27:43 AM
It is looking more and more like the United States will have to take more
active counterinsurgency measures in the Sunni Triangle than they are currently.
This will involve much more manpower, extensive logistics, a coordinated plan
linking increased aid and political participation to good behavior, in short, a
level of political-military activity not seen since Vietnam. Plan on at least a
decade.
4094. jexster - 4/1/2004 10:33:59 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A high-profile U.S.-sponsored trade fair for companies
rebuilding Iraq (news - web sites) was postponed on Thursday, a day after the
grisly killing and mutilation of four American contractors deepened fears that
security was worsening. 4095. jexster - 4/1/2004 10:41:43 AM
8%
of Iraqi academics have Fled, 1000 Professionals Assassinated in past Year
Obe Juan Cole 4096. jexster - 4/1/2004 10:43:20 AM
What would drive the crowd to this barbaric behavior? It is not that they
are pro-Saddam any more, or that they hate "freedom." They are using a theater
of the macabre to protest their occupation and humiliation by foreign armies.
They were engaging in a role reversal, with the American cadavers in the
position of the "helpless" and the "humiliated," and with themselves playing the
role of the powerful monster that inscribes its will on these bodies.
4097. wonkers2 - 4/1/2004 10:53:47 AM
Also, if they were Baathists, they are motivated by the prospect of losing
their position to the Shiites.
4098. vonKreedon - 4/1/2004 10:58:23 AM
Another angle on the sudden uptick in successful attacks on US forces is that
we just finished rotating in new units, so the 4thID/82nd who had developed an
understanding of the context and appropriate tactics are now gone and the
Marines are busy re-learning many of those lessons.
4099. Wombat - 4/1/2004 11:01:56 AM
As troop rotation continues, and a larger proportion of forces rotating in
are reservists and National Guard units, these types of attacks may affect
morale in ways that we have not seen with the active service units that have
been in Iraq.
4100. jexster - 4/1/2004 11:03:45 AM
WARNING
GRAPHIC CONTENT: American Bodies Dragged THrough Streets of Fallujah (AP Video -
JavaScript
4101. jexster - 4/1/2004 11:06:14 AM
We won't be there a decade Wombat... 4102. jexster - 4/1/2004 11:08:02 AM
People do not yet appreciate how truly awful the best of our options is...
4103. jexster - 4/1/2004 11:11:34 AM
The Imperial Occupation Authority looks like it has begun to see the
handwriting the wall even as the light at the end of the tunnel grow dim
4104. jexster - 4/1/2004 11:18:55 AM
NEW YORK - Many major newspapers ran graphic photos Thursday of charred
bodies of Americans killed in Iraq (news - web sites), while the images were
largely shunned by American television as too graphic. 4105. Wombat - 4/1/2004 11:20:21 AM
The irony is that if the United States was in fact acting like a colonial
power, it would actually be able to condition its departure on the establishment
of a stable, democratic state, and a high level of public safety, and take steps
to encourage collaboration to that end.
4106. jexster - 4/1/2004 11:21:44 AM
Ambassador Wilson put the question: 4107. wonkers2 - 4/1/2004 11:38:29 AM
I thought we were doing that. But Bush didn't provide enough troops, didn't
have a post invasion plan, and now he can't stand the political heat from the
casualties, etc.
4108. jayackroyd - 4/1/2004 12:21:22 PM
As troop rotation continues, and a larger proportion of forces rotating in
are reservists and National Guard units, these types of attacks may affect
morale in ways that we have not seen with the active service units that have
been in Iraq. 4109. jayackroyd - 4/1/2004 12:23:25 PM
4105 4110. Wombat - 4/1/2004 12:37:24 PM
We went into Iraq as "liberators," with no plans to stay any longer than it
took for the Iraqis to get their act together and revel in their freedom. The
Bush administration did not plan a permanent presence, outside of a base or two.
As Wonkers and others point out, the administration planned mostly on the basis
of wishful thinking. 4111. jayackroyd - 4/1/2004 12:38:35 PM
Yeah. DO you think Kerry has the stones to do this? We've seen that Bush does
not.
4112. Wombat - 4/1/2004 12:57:13 PM
Jay: 4113. jexster - 4/1/2004 1:53:15 PM
"US Promises Overwhelming Response to Iraq Killings" 4114. jexster - 4/1/2004 1:55:34 PM
One thing we are looking at in San Francisco....after every war, there is a
noticeable jump in homelessness...Veterans with severe PTD....The word from Vets
organizations...this is going to be a real disaster... 4115. jexster - 4/1/2004 1:56:20 PM
You won't hear much if any press about that... 4116. jayackroyd - 4/1/2004 2:22:15 PM
4114 4117. jexster - 4/1/2004 2:59:02 PM
20% increase in homelessness estimated by Swords to Ploughshares, the
American Legion, and St. Anthony's foundation...that's 600 veterans with
post-traumatic stress disorder expected within the year Jay 4118. jayackroyd - 4/1/2004 3:00:57 PM
Numbers like that--hundreds--I certainly accept.
4119. jexster - 4/1/2004 3:00:58 PM
That figure from last Friday's plenary session of the SF Ten Year Plan
Council....I was there. At 1:30 I am going to a meeting of the Subcommittee on
Mainstreaming....it will be a topic of discussion there and also at the
Prevention Subcommittee meeting tommorrow afternoon
4120. jexster - 4/1/2004 3:03:23 PM
Front page of Today's SF Chron features color picture of the Old Bridge in
Falluja...anyone wanna see?
4121. jexster - 4/1/2004 9:23:27 PM
Iraq:
Wrong War, Wrong Time 4122. wonkers2 - 4/1/2004 9:31:07 PM
That's powerful (for CATO to jump on the bandwagon)!
4123. wonkers2 - 4/1/2004 9:31:30 PM
I mean for CATO to jump off the Bush bandwagon!
4124. jexster - 4/1/2004 10:23:13 PM
Baker:
Iraq's Debt is Unsustainable 4125. jexster - 4/1/2004 10:23:52 PM
CATO has consistently opposed the war..and vehemently
4126. jexster - 4/1/2004 11:07:02 PM
Fallujah, the day after: 4127. jayackroyd - 4/1/2004 11:32:51 PM
rdb, concerned, those who have fled the site because they were proven wrong,
and don't have the guts to stay here: 4128. jexster - 4/2/2004 7:10:45 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The people who burned and kicked the corpses of four
American contractors in the Iraqi town of Falluja this week were not armed
insurgents or foreign fighters. 4129. jexster - 4/2/2004 7:12:38 AM
Jay I think Juan Cole nailed it.."adolescent power fantasies" die hard...
4130. jexster - 4/2/2004 7:21:21 AM
4286. jexster - 4/2/2004 12:15:52 PM 4131. jexster - 4/2/2004 7:35:23 AM
Not ANYTHING... 4132. jexster - 4/2/2004 7:42:18 AM
German
Intel [Bundesnachrichtendienst] Warned CIA of Lies 4133. jexster - 4/2/2004 7:49:32 AM
For those of us who know what The Company is REALLY up to we know that the
CIA was ultimately the source of this story. Don't we? We know this because we
know that the CIA never bought into Chalabi and in fact quite the opposite
fought Cheney et al in a bloody battle that has now turned into full scale war
between the CIA and Cheney 4134. jexster - 4/2/2004 7:56:35 AM
Kein Unkraut in unserem Garten 4135. jexster - 4/2/2004 8:07:25 AM
Deaths
of Americans in Fallujah: In revenge for Sharon's Murder of Sheikh
Yassin? 4136. jexster - 4/2/2004 8:08:55 AM
Fallujah
will be just like Baqubah 4137. jexster - 4/2/2004 11:08:47 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - One U.S. soldier and one U.S. Marine were killed in two
attacks in Iraq (news - web sites), the U.S. military said Friday. 4138. concerned - 4/2/2004 6:20:45 PM
Deaths in Fallujah add to March toll, the deadliest month for US in Iraq
since November 2003 4139. wabbit - 4/2/2004 6:37:49 PM
I added the news blurb, concerned, because it is part of the discussion. Jay
is free to remove or change it if he sees fit.
4140. robertjayb - 4/2/2004 6:59:37 PM
Well, wouldn't you know it? That left-wing CBS Evening News aired a segment
tonight with a young West Pointer freshly returned from Iraq. He lost six
friends. He went over a straight-up young Republican and returned a Demo-leaning
independent who is leaving the army to work and vote for John Kerry. He says he
is not alone. 4141. concerned - 4/2/2004 7:00:59 PM
Hi, wabbit - 4142. judithathome - 4/2/2004 7:05:36 PM
Maybe to you but some people actually care about things like that.
4143. wabbit - 4/2/2004 7:13:16 PM
Not all the news blurbs can be earthshattering, like the Pats winning their
second Super Bowl! I'm just trying to keep the news links reasonably current. No
intent to offend anyone.
4144. jayackroyd - 4/2/2004 8:21:31 PM
4141 4145. jayackroyd - 4/2/2004 8:22:58 PM
And it that was the lead news story in the major papers. It was the center of
discussion on Crossfire today. It's a serious issue. If it's trivial, then what,
in your view, is the simple and clear US response?
4146. jexster - 4/2/2004 8:37:55 PM
You put yourself in the shoes of an American military commander in
Fallujah. He treats with the local clan leaders and Sunni clergy. He tries to
get them on the side of the US. He faces hostility, but he is making some
progress. 4147. jexster - 4/2/2004 8:42:00 PM
Deaths in Fallujah add to March
toll, the deadliest month for US in Iraq since November 2003
4148. jexster - 4/2/2004 8:43:42 PM
See the face... 4149. jexster - 4/2/2004 8:45:01 PM
4150. jexster - 4/3/2004 5:21:11 AM
Powell:
We Lied - So Sue Us 4151. jexster - 4/3/2004 5:25:42 AM
Setting Cheney up???? 4152. robertjayb - 4/3/2004 6:10:04 AM
AP version of "Colin gets a clue" (See jexster, above)
4153. jexster - 4/3/2004 12:07:51 PM
It couldn't be more plain that the Powell confession is part of the CIA game
to burn Bush.. 4154. jexster - 4/3/2004 12:08:39 PM
Those fucks lied through their teeth.
4155. wonkers2 - 4/4/2004 9:50:43 AM
And they're still trying to lie their way out of being caught lying!
4156. jexster - 4/4/2004 10:29:41 AM
KUFA, Iraq (Reuters) - Spanish-led troops and Iraqi police fired on
protesters and clashed with armed Shi'ite militiamen near Najaf Sunday, leaving
at least 19 people dead and more than 100 wounded, witnesses and hospital
officials said. 4157. jexster - 4/4/2004 10:34:56 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two U.S. Marines were killed in separate insurgent
attacks west of Baghdad, the U.S. military said in a statement on Sunday. 4158. jexster - 4/4/2004 10:42:18 AM
4159. jexster - 4/4/2004 11:20:48 AM
NAJAF, Iraq - Gunmen opened fire on the Spanish garrison in the holy city of
Najaf on Sunday during a huge demonstration by followers of an anti-American
Shiite Muslim cleric. Four Salvadoran soldiers and at least 14 Iraqis died, and
more than 130 people were wounded
4160. jexster - 4/4/2004 2:14:31 PM
4161. robertjayb - 4/4/2004 2:31:02 PM
Seen any caskets yet? 4162. robertjayb - 4/4/2004 2:50:04 PM
Iraq Wracked, says NYTimes... 4163. jexster - 4/4/2004 3:23:35 PM
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration's June 30 deadline for turning over
sovereignty of Iraq (news - web sites) to its people may need to be extended,
the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee said Sunday. The security
situation in some cities is in shambles and Iraqi police forces are not prepared
to take over, said Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind. 4164. wonkers2 - 4/4/2004 3:28:09 PM
Lugar is one of the more honest and intelligent Republicans in the Senate.
4165. jayackroyd - 4/4/2004 4:03:20 PM
it's also an institutional thing. Lugar has been in the senate before this
administration and will likely be there after. He's and his colleagues have to
live with the consequences of the decisions this administration makes. And when
they are just being flat irresponsible, the institutional pressure is going to
be felt.
4166. jexster - 4/4/2004 5:34:10 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Seven U.S. soldiers were killed Sunday in fighting with
Shiite militiamen in the Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, the U.S. military
said. At least 24 other American troops were wounded, the military said in a
written statement.
4167. jexster - 4/4/2004 5:37:05 PM
The same can be said with greater force about the professionals in the
Intelligence Community... 4168. jexster - 4/4/2004 5:38:48 PM
4169. jexster - 4/4/2004 5:50:54 PM
NAJAF, Iraq (AFP) - At least 28 people were killed, including four Salvadoran
soldiers, and 200 people wounded as backers of a radical Shiite leader clashed
with troops of the US-led coalition in Iraq (news - web sites).
4170. jexster - 4/4/2004 5:51:47 PM
George W. Bush, Bungling Butcher of Baghdad
4171. jexster - 4/4/2004 5:56:09 PM
Mark this date 4172. robertjayb - 4/4/2004 6:41:27 PM
A bloody Sunday for U. S. troops... 4173. robertjayb - 4/4/2004 6:52:57 PM
The Guardian on today's violence...
4174. jexster - 4/4/2004 8:58:27 PM
4175. jexster - 4/4/2004 9:02:57 PM
4176. jexster - 4/4/2004 9:27:58 PM
4177. jexster - 4/4/2004 9:30:15 PM
4178. jexster - 4/4/2004 9:31:31 PM
4179. jexster - 4/4/2004 10:09:33 PM
Bush
Lied - 10 American Soldiers Die
4180. wonkers2 - 4/4/2004 10:27:29 PM
Anybody suggested doing a google search for "weapons of mass destruction?"
Type it in and click on the top entry. Check out the error message.
4181. jexster - 4/5/2004 1:38:19 AM
BAGHDAD, April 4 -- By unleashing mass demonstrations and attacks in Baghdad
and southern Iraq (news - web sites) on Sunday, a young, militant cleric has
realized the greatest fear of the U.S.-led administration since the occupation
of Iraq began a year ago:a Shiite Muslim uprising.
4182. jexster - 4/5/2004 2:14:20 AM
4183. jexster - 4/5/2004 2:15:23 AM
4184. jexster - 4/5/2004 9:45:23 AM
US forces attack Baghdad district as violent opposition to
occupation grows
4185. jexster - 4/5/2004 9:50:19 AM
4186. jexster - 4/5/2004 1:30:40 PM
"All the trouble in Iraq is because of Bremer," Khamis told me, flanked by
a line-up of thirty Pepsi and 7-Up bottles. "He didn't listen to Iraqis. He
doesn't know anything about Iraq. He destroyed the country and tried to rebuild
it again, and now we are in chaos." 4187. jexster - 4/5/2004 1:32:37 PM
If you want to survive in Iraq, it's wise to stay the hell away from
people who look like us. (We thought about explaining that we were Canadians,
but all the American reporters are sporting the maple leaf--that is, when they
aren't trying to disappear behind their newly purchased headscarves.) 4188. jexster - 4/5/2004 1:40:04 PM
There is one piece of this country, though, that the US government is
happy to cede to the people of Iraq: the hospitals. On March 27 Bremer announced
that he had withdrawn the senior US advisers from Iraq's Health Ministry, making
it the first sector to achieve "full authority" in the US occupation.
4189. jexster - 4/5/2004 3:49:27 PM
CAIRO, Egypt - The radical Iraqi Shiite cleric that the United States has
labeled as an "outlaw" said on Monday that Iraqis were not afraid to die and
would stand up to America's military might. 4190. jexster - 4/5/2004 4:33:30 PM
Arrest Warrant for Muqtada al-Sadr 4191. jexster - 4/5/2004 4:34:36 PM
Obe Juan Cole
4192. jexster - 4/5/2004 4:43:33 PM
Bush
Lied, Played Games With Iraq Troop Levels - US Lives Endangered
4193. robertjayb - 4/5/2004 5:39:28 PM
CNN says General John Abazaid ponders need for more troops in Iraq---Asks for
recommendations in 48-hours. 4194. robertjayb - 4/5/2004 6:22:07 PM
See Eric Alterman's
snarky "We told you so" blog... 4195. robertjayb - 4/5/2004 6:40:30 PM
AP confirms troop-level study... 4196. robertjayb - 4/5/2004 7:41:32 PM
al-Sadr supporters say, "Bring it on!" 4197. jexster - 4/5/2004 8:02:09 PM
Muqtada
rejects Calls to Renounce Violence, Moves to Najaf's Shrine of Imam Ali
4198. jexster - 4/5/2004 8:03:05 PM
Looks like somebody forgot to bring the flowers and candy
4199. robertjayb - 4/5/2004 8:05:02 PM
News Hour beat down... 4200. jexster - 4/5/2004 8:12:52 PM
Juan Cole isn't the only one sounding the alarums....the CNN Talking Towel
Head from Sarah Lawrence says the situation is spinning rapidly out control, the
Sunni insurgency isn't Baathist nor radical Islamist and it is "gaining roots
and strength" 4201. jexster - 4/5/2004 9:47:43 PM
Consensus
prediction: if Bush insists on June 30/July 1 turnover, a rapid descent into
civil war 4202. jayackroyd - 4/5/2004 9:56:37 PM
I said, some time ago, that this deadline was a bad idea. 4203. jexster - 4/6/2004 2:08:15 AM
Mahdi
Army Fights Coalition in Baghdad, Karbala, Basra: Takes control of Shrine of
Imam Ali in Najaf
4204. jexster - 4/6/2004 2:14:55 AM
Nearly
3 Million Iraqis, Sunni and Shiite, Approve of attacks on Americans
4205. jexster - 4/6/2004 2:16:52 AM
It's hard not to conclude that the date was election-driven.
4206. jexster - 4/6/2004 2:48:32 AM
Texas "democracy" at the point of a gun...now WHOSE bright idea was that?
4207. PelleNilsson - 4/6/2004 7:05:44 AM
It looks like the war goes into a second phase almost exactly one year after
the end of the first one.
4208. jexster - 4/6/2004 8:01:31 AM
Transcript of
Cole Interview on NPR: Muqtada al-Sadr
4209. jexster - 4/6/2004 8:12:10 AM
FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. troops battled Iraqi guerrillas Tuesday on the edges of
Fallujah, which hundreds of Marines and Iraqi troops have surrounded in a major
operation to pacify one of Iraq (news - web sites)'s most violent cities. The
military reported four Marines killed in the area. 4210. jexster - 4/6/2004 8:13:09 AM
4211. jexster - 4/6/2004 8:23:23 AM
Scores
dead as riots sweep Iraq 4212. jexster - 4/6/2004 8:25:36 AM
4213. jexster - 4/6/2004 8:25:50 AM
We're fucked
4214. alistairConnor - 4/6/2004 8:26:44 AM
One Year
Ago Today : some highlights. 4215. jexster - 4/6/2004 8:39:27 AM
The
battle the US wants to provoke 4216. jexster - 4/6/2004 8:46:35 AM
On Sunday, all these explosive forces came together when thousands of
demonstrators filled Firdos Square. On one side of the plaza, a couple of kids
climbed to the top of a building and took a knife to a billboard advertising
Iraq's new army. On the other side, US forces pointed tanks at the crowd while a
loudspeaker told them that "demonstrations are an important part of democracy
but blocking traffic will not be permitted 4217. jexster - 4/6/2004 10:39:51 AM
FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. troops battled guerrillas Tuesday on the edges of
Fallujah, where hundreds of Marines and Iraqi troops have surrounded one of Iraq
(news - web sites)'s most violent cities in an operation to crush the insurgency
there. The military reported five Marines were killed and two wounded in the
operation, which was more than 24 hours old. 4218. jexster - 4/6/2004 10:41:25 AM
4219. jexster - 4/6/2004 11:54:52 AM
BAGHDAD, April 5 -- To the soldiers inside the armored vehicles ringing
with the sound of bullets, the night was one long ambush. It began with a sneak
attack -- rocket-propelled grenades fired from an alley, shredding Humvees and
the Americans inside -- then quickly escalated into a nightlong firefight. The
battleground was the vast warren of narrow streets called Sadr City, but it
suddenly reminded 1st Lt. Dave Swanson of Mogadishu. 4220. PsychProf - 4/6/2004 1:28:27 PM
At RI we have a participant who is currently working in Iraq, and she posts
snipets that give fascinating color to current events there. My friend Banks has
asked me to copy her posts to the Mote, so I will. Her name is Spark, and she is
very much beloved and respected by all. EG 4221. jayackroyd - 4/6/2004 1:36:29 PM
Jeez. 4222. jayackroyd - 4/6/2004 2:01:51 PM
Blix via Reuters: 4223. marjoribanks - 4/6/2004 2:53:21 PM
Thanks prof. 4224. marjoribanks - 4/6/2004 2:53:38 PM
And a bit more - 4225. marjoribanks - 4/6/2004 2:54:36 PM
Yeah, I would not be surprised to see more troops sent over there in the next
week, and a huge uptick in Iraqi casualties.
4226. jexster - 4/6/2004 3:18:01 PM
Imperial
Forces Fight to Contain Iraq Fury as Chaos Spreads
4227. jexster - 4/6/2004 3:19:38 PM
4228. jexster - 4/6/2004 3:25:00 PM
UPDATE FROM THE SOUTHERN FRONT 4229. jexster - 4/6/2004 3:30:07 PM
"We dominate the scene and we will continue to impose our will on this
country." Paul Bremer 6/03 4230. robertjayb - 4/6/2004 5:56:16 PM
The manure may be hitting the mixmaster... 4231. wonkers2 - 4/6/2004 6:01:07 PM
I heard two American Muslims, a professor and an ayatollah I think, warn that
arresting Sadr would be counter-productive. According to them Bremer
misunderestimates his standing in the Muslim community, Shiite and Sunni.
Sistani is a bigger ayatollah but he suffers a bit from being "Persian." And,
therefore, although he may not support Sadr, he isn't about to stick his neck
out and support his arrest or even criticize him publicly.
4232. jexster - 4/6/2004 6:29:08 PM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - As many as a dozen American Marines were killed on
Tuesday when their position was attacked in the Iraqi city of Ramadi near the
Sunni hotbed of Falluja, a U.S. defense official said.
4233. jayackroyd - 4/6/2004 8:31:09 PM
This was a bad day. The path out is looking more and more difficult. Since
the administration won't say what it really thinks, there's no way to know what
the plans are. 4234. jexster - 4/6/2004 9:11:06 PM
Damned if we do, damned if we don't 4235. jexster - 4/6/2004 10:03:01 PM
This is the Voice of America calling
all Morons: 4236. jexster - 4/7/2004 12:45:34 AM
"He will have to answer to God" Pope John Paul II
4237. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 1:37:27 AM
What's disturbing about all this is that they keep saying the same things.
It's remniscent of Vietnam (which, I reiterate was a very different conflict, a
very different problem). It may be that privately they're saying "Oh man. We are
so fucked. What are we gonna do?" 4238. PsychProf - 4/7/2004 8:06:23 AM
FROM SPARK 4239. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 9:22:20 AM
When Bush says stuff like this, in the wake of a dozen US soldiers killed,
and dozens of Iraqi dead: 4240. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 9:24:36 AM
Oh, and "freedom." Warming up for the September speeches.
4241. jexster - 4/7/2004 10:06:21 AM
Breaking News from Centcom: 4242. PelleNilsson - 4/7/2004 10:30:05 AM
The handover will be a de jure change but I suspect that the situation de
facto will not change, except that the US rule will become a bit veiled.
4243. jexster - 4/7/2004 10:31:07 AM
Detail you won't get on TV or a single news paper, From Juan Cole..
4244. jexster - 4/7/2004 10:33:54 AM
US troops died at the hands of Sunni Arab guerrillas at Ramadi on Tuesday,
but also at the hands of radical Shiites in Kadhimiya, a suburb of Baghdad that
is the site of the tomb of the 7th Imam. A two-front struggle against radical
Sunnis and Shiites has arrived. 4245. alistairConnor - 4/7/2004 11:28:24 AM
Exit strategies are looking ugly. 4246. jexster - 4/7/2004 11:33:53 AM
Silver lining department..this could be one...Iraq needs unity in order to
become a stable nation state and while we are a very very very long way from
that point, if ever we get there, the Uniter-Not-a-Divider and All Highest
Warlord of the World apppears to be accomplishing just that..
4247. jexster - 4/7/2004 11:40:52 AM
Yes I think Safire and the National Review and Weakly Standard and WSJ
editorial pages ARE proxies for the Bush neo-con radicals who pull the Warlord's
strings. 4248. jexster - 4/7/2004 11:41:44 AM
I use "Bush" generically for all weeds in the garden
4249. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 11:50:22 AM
The handover will be a de jure change but I suspect that the situation de
facto will not change, except that the US rule will become a bit veiled.
4250. robertjayb - 4/7/2004 12:02:45 PM
Riverbend says,
"This is crazy." 4251. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 12:27:43 PM
I've never said until this moment, but maybe the US should just cut and run.
Let the civil war happen. Provide diplomatic and military support to the Kurds.
There'll be some brutal oppression of some Sunnis. Perhaps an alliance with
Iran. Bad stuff all around. 4252. jexster - 4/7/2004 12:28:57 PM
4253. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 12:45:35 PM
Making things worse. AP: 4254. PelleNilsson - 4/7/2004 1:27:28 PM
I've never said until this moment, but maybe the US should just cut and
run. Let the civil war happen. 4255. jexster - 4/7/2004 1:35:33 PM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - US forces bombed a mosque west of Baghdad, killing up to 40
people inside as they pressed a two-pronged offensive against stiff resistance
from Shiite and Sunni insurgents. 4256. jexster - 4/7/2004 1:36:48 PM
and the neocon's continue to spout the lie "its all a mop up op"
4257. jexster - 4/7/2004 1:38:03 PM
Our bombs may be smart. 4258. wonkers2 - 4/7/2004 4:20:32 PM
Looks like we may have succeeded in uniting the Shiites and Sunnis!
4259. wonkers2 - 4/7/2004 4:20:49 PM
Temporarily, at least.
4260. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 4:30:15 PM
That's funny, or perhaps not funny at all. I had the same thought while
reading the papers today. 4261. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 4:31:35 PM
The surrogates are now reduced (just glanced at cnn) to the second half of
the win-win proposition. "Yeah, I guess it's a mess. How are YOU going to fix
it, John Kerry? Huh? How are you gonna fix it?"
4262. alistairConnor - 4/7/2004 4:45:35 PM
Blast
from the past... 4263. alistairConnor - 4/7/2004 4:46:00 PM
[cont'd] 4264. concerned - 4/7/2004 5:05:04 PM
AC - 4265. jayackroyd - 4/7/2004 5:09:15 PM
And then next question is why were the inspectors booted out before they
could answer that question?
4266. vonKreedon - 4/7/2004 5:10:11 PM
Saddam DID have WMD, but NOT when this administration told us, evidence to
the CONTRARY, that they were CERTAIN that he HAD THEM NOW. He of course did NOT.
4267. jexster - 4/7/2004 6:11:09 PM
1. 4268. jexster - 4/7/2004 6:11:31 PM
Robert C. Byrd
4269. jexster - 4/7/2004 6:16:10 PM
The only question is when he got rid of the last of them. 4270. vonKreedon - 4/7/2004 6:38:48 PM
Dulce et Decorum Est 4271. wonkers2 - 4/7/2004 6:57:30 PM
Great poem! He obviously knew first-hand what he was writing about.
4272. SnowOwl - 4/7/2004 7:03:26 PM
He certainly did. He was killed in France, 7 days before the Armistice.
4273. judithathome - 4/7/2004 7:12:12 PM
So many great poets died or were maimed in that war.
4274. jexster - 4/7/2004 8:07:39 PM
4275. arkymalarky - 4/7/2004 8:37:50 PM
I teach that poem, and sometimes read it in history class when we study WWI.
4276. jexster - 4/7/2004 9:10:41 PM
At least 10 more Americans died today because Bush lied.
4277. jexster - 4/7/2004 9:12:17 PM
4278. jexster - 4/7/2004 9:14:18 PM
4279. jexster - 4/7/2004 9:15:56 PM
There are 17 in all ....a few dead babies, one disemboweled.... 4280. jexster - 4/7/2004 9:20:46 PM
It gets worse. We woke up Monday morning to an uprising. The Mehdi Army,
the militia of the Shiite leader Muqtada Sadr, had taken over police stations in
Sadr City, the Shiite slum in Baghdad, U.S. helicopters rocketed houses, eight
American soldiers were killed, many more Iraqis lay dead and wounded. In Kufa,
near the holy city of Najaf, Muqtada had retreated to a corner of his home
mosque. His followers gathered, outraged at the arrest of his close aide
Mustapha Yacoubi, charged in connection with the murder of Ayatollah Abdel Majid
al-Khoei, who was stabbed and shot to death last spring in the very portals of
the Najaf shrine. 4281. jexster - 4/7/2004 9:54:21 PM
CBS5.com Staff 4282. jexster - 4/7/2004 10:00:56 PM
Iraq
Fighting Heavy as Uprisings Grow 4283. Magoseph - 4/8/2004 7:16:24 AM
Wonkers: I don't want to embarrass anybody so I won't name the supporters.
But some are still among us here in the Mote. 4284. PsychProf - 4/8/2004 7:45:09 AM
Apr 7, 2004 10:52 pm (#1323 of 1332) 4285. PsychProf - 4/8/2004 7:46:18 AM
The last post is from "On The Scene" Spark.
4286. alistairConnor - 4/8/2004 8:33:27 AM
Today's anniversary round-up. An arbitrary personal choice from a rich and varied
discussion. 4287. quakeii - 4/8/2004 8:33:34 AM
Read Freidman in NYT today. "We need more allies...if we are to win in Iraq."
4288. alistairConnor - 4/8/2004 8:36:04 AM
6688. marjoribanks - 4/8/2003 4:51:10 PM 4289. alistairConnor - 4/8/2004 8:36:57 AM
6710. vonKreedon - 4/8/2003 7:49:21 PM 4290. alistairConnor - 4/8/2004 8:37:48 AM
6716. vonKreedon - 4/8/2003 8:03:23 PM 4291. Wombat - 4/8/2004 8:42:10 AM
Alistair: 4292. alistairConnor - 4/8/2004 8:43:59 AM
Sorry to drown your post, Quaker... yes, Friedman's a hoot. He was one of the
foam-at-the-mouth "Freedom Fries" brigade... 4293. jayackroyd - 4/8/2004 8:57:15 AM
Well, there's a credibility problem as well. Would you believe any deal Bush
offered, at this point? 4294. marjoribanks - 4/8/2004 4:25:52 PM
Well, I am very very reluctant to make judgements and predictions when the
evidence does not warrant it. 4295. wonkers2 - 4/8/2004 4:40:02 PM
WOW! Not good.
4296. vonKreedon - 4/8/2004 4:56:42 PM
We have so well and truly fucked up in Iraq that I am at a loss for words. I
am enraged at the willful stupid hubris of our administration. 4297. marjoribanks - 4/8/2004 5:04:57 PM
4298. robertjayb - 4/8/2004 5:12:09 PM
If the carpet-bagger dubya had even a fraction of the character of LBJ (a
real, if flawed Texan) he would make an LBJ statement from his film-set ranch in
Crawford. 4299. marjoribanks - 4/8/2004 5:14:49 PM
Bush is a fabrication, incapable of anything like it. 4300. robertjayb - 4/8/2004 5:22:21 PM
LBJ: 4301. vonKreedon - 4/8/2004 5:38:01 PM
Riverbend
writes yesterday: 4302. vonKreedon - 4/8/2004 5:45:34 PM
Chris Allbritton
reports: 4303. robertjayb - 4/8/2004 6:20:59 PM
Iraqis threaten to burn Japanese hostages...
4304. jroth - 4/9/2004 2:15:50 AM
I'm back again, hopefully for several months. When I left this thread Sadaam
had just been captured and the debate centered around the question of whether
his arrest would prove decisive in some way. Guess not. 4305. concerned - 4/9/2004 2:25:18 AM
Good to see you back.
4306. jexster - 4/9/2004 2:51:05 AM
Signs
That Shiites and Sunnis Are Joining to Fight Americans
4307. jexster - 4/9/2004 3:10:43 AM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) will
deliver a stay-the-course message to Asian allies with troops in Iraq
(news - web sites), and urge them not bow to pressure from militants and
kidnappers to withdraw, officials said on Thursday. 4308. jexster - 4/9/2004 3:15:03 AM
OOOPS 4309. jexster - 4/9/2004 5:56:29 AM
Muqtada Calls for an End to Hostilities
4310. alistairConnor - 4/9/2004 6:06:23 AM
Parley
in Falluja 4311. marjoribanks - 4/9/2004 8:40:42 AM
Welcome back, Roth. I was thinking about you a few days ago. 4312. Wombat - 4/9/2004 9:29:03 AM
I think that the US should muster the forces to isolate, retake and hold
Falujah, even if it means high casualties (US and civilian). The city has been a
hotbed of anti-US sentiment from Day 1, and everything that US forces have done
since then smacks of insufficiency and irresolution, which only feeds anti-US
sentiment. The idea that 1,000 Marines can do anything other than take
casualties and call in artillery and air strikes would be laughable if it wasn't
so tragic. Why does Donald Rumsfeld still have a job?
4313. jexster - 4/9/2004 9:47:42 AM
The problem is much bigger than Fallujah...that's why it does not make sense
to take and hold.. 4314. jroth - 4/9/2004 9:56:42 AM
Rumsfeld still wants this done on the cheap; a desire made more urgent by the
election year pressure to reduce troop levels and casualties. It's worth
remembering that the army wanted 50-100% more troops for this war. The greatest
uncertainties the planners faced were the protection of the supply routes and
the forces required for garrisoning. Looks like the professional military was
right. It should have been a big signal when Tommy Franks declined any further
role and retired. Wise choice. Looks like he realized the 'peace' would be a
mess. 4315. Wombat - 4/9/2004 10:04:44 AM
I would have thought that at least a division will be needed, and that it
will have to go into the city and attempt to root out as much resistance as it
can. More troops will also be needed to establish a strong perimeter around the
city while the operation is continuing. Aid convoys from Baghdad will have to be
turned back as well.
4316. jroth - 4/9/2004 10:14:18 AM
The Marines operate with much less 'tail' to 'teeth' than the Army. Still,
the math suggests that about 50 squads (10-12 personnel) are available for
patrol duties. That's about one squad per 5000 populace or per 1500 structures.
You can't really go below a squad since you need that much firepower in case of
ambush, etc. 4317. jexster - 4/9/2004 10:15:21 AM
The Situation in Najaf 4318. jexster - 4/9/2004 10:18:47 AM
Ah the smell of napalm in the morning...smells like gasoline..and I am glad
that my memories of free fire zones came from newspapers and Walter Cronkite...
4319. jexster - 4/9/2004 10:25:50 AM
Rumsfeld's doin it on the cheap is not exactly right...He wouldn't mind
spending the money or spilling the blood if he could get away with it..
4320. marjoribanks - 4/9/2004 10:26:07 AM
4321. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 10:30:50 AM
Looks like the professional military was right. It should have been a big
signal when Tommy Franks declined any further role and retired. Wise choice.
Looks like he realized the 'peace' would be a mess. 4322. jexster - 4/9/2004 10:33:11 AM
That was really an all meat move from start to finish wasn't it... 4323. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 10:39:45 AM
The problem is using those technologies in an urban area. Anybody remenber
free fire zones? 4324. jexster - 4/9/2004 10:41:29 AM
Perhaps and this all I can come up with...they felt that after 6/30 they
might not be able to dispatch the Sadrists...and they were scared - with 30% of
th Shia favoring a theocracy couldn't leave him around and a candidate for
National Assembly 4325. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 10:45:45 AM
I would have thought that at least a division will be needed, and that it
will have to go into the city and attempt to root out as much resistance as it
can. More troops will also be needed to establish a strong perimeter around the
city while the operation is continuing. Aid convoys from Baghdad will have to be
turned back as well. 4326. jexster - 4/9/2004 10:45:53 AM
DEATH TO KURDISTAN.....there IS NO KURDISTAN..Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey
will be there loooong after we are gone..The Kurds are the NEXT BIG THING..if
the Shia and Sunni can get their shit together, look out... 4327. jexster - 4/9/2004 10:50:59 AM
We should thank Allah that we are fighting towel heads in the open and not
Charlie in the jungle... 4328. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:12:07 AM
No source of supply for armaments. 4329. jroth - 4/9/2004 11:16:24 AM
I suspect Wombat may have been ironic in his comments. His estimate of a
division is not that far off the mark. One of the many challenges of urban
combat is that units quickly become isolated from parent formations and are
unable to provide mutual support and reinforcement. 4330. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:26:32 AM
great political cost. 4331. Wombat - 4/9/2004 11:29:17 AM
Jay: 4332. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:29:47 AM
The contrast between the forced conscription that characterized Baathist
rule and the willing engagement of so many Iraqis in the defense of democracy is
striking and heartening. 4333. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:30:34 AM
4331 4334. Wombat - 4/9/2004 11:45:22 AM
Decolonizing counterinsurgency as practiced by the British in Kenya and
Malaya offers other hints at what a successful policy might be: 4335. concerned - 4/9/2004 11:51:59 AM
I have two words for you, wombat. Oil revenue.
4336. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:57:59 AM
LOL 4337. concerned - 4/9/2004 12:01:44 PM
IMO, it wouldn't appear pious, just stupid, if we neglected to finance at
least part of our efforts to bring freedom and stable government to Iraq with
oil revenue.
4338. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 12:17:34 PM
All I meant is that for a year now people who have said it was about the oil
were laughed at, sneered at and villified. I've done some of that myself. And
now you're supporting that point of view. 4339. concerned - 4/9/2004 12:20:20 PM
The Brits didn't have the examples of Japan etal, but they did have a
tradition of empire that we don't have.
4340. robertjayb - 4/9/2004 12:28:37 PM
4341. Wombat - 4/9/2004 12:53:08 PM
Jay: 4342. jexster - 4/9/2004 1:11:52 PM
Leetle beet of a difference Wombat..British Africa wasn't a nation state
wasn't part of a major world politico-religious social system..and in fact
hardly a model in any event in the event 4343. jexster - 4/9/2004 1:19:10 PM
Japan!?!?!?! 4344. robertjayb - 4/9/2004 2:21:51 PM
No Smirking Zone!!!! 4345. Wombat - 4/9/2004 3:44:35 PM
Superb article on Peacekeeping/Nation-building in the new New York Times
Magazine. Highlights the fecklessness of the Bush administration's denigrating
and downgrading of post-conflict politico-military operations. Iraq is an
example of doing everything wrong.
4346. jexster - 4/9/2004 4:24:14 PM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - At least two U.S. soldiers and a civilian truck driver
were killed by guerrillas in Iraq (news - web sites) on Friday and three more
Marines were killed west of Baghdad the previous day, the U.S. military said in
a statement. 4347. jexster - 4/9/2004 4:30:39 PM
Wes Clark made that point very succinctly on CNN...basically Bush was so
obsessed with Saddam and the Politics of Saddam that he failed to do the real
work required for such an operation...namely 4348. jexster - 4/9/2004 4:38:35 PM
... 4349. jexster - 4/9/2004 4:50:37 PM
The US cannot by force "pacify" the country..that is the point..did the Nazis
pacify Poland? or did they just reduce violence to an acceptable level..what
about France? Holland? 4350. jexster - 4/9/2004 9:17:35 PM
Even the puppet is acting up! 4351. jexster - 4/9/2004 9:21:58 PM
There is a very basic explanation of why no outside invader has prevailed
against an indigenous nationalist insurgency in over 100 years. 4352. marjoribanks - 4/9/2004 10:21:09 PM
While excoriating the overall quality of the American news media -
particularly TV - I haven't particularly detected or even suspected mass
collusion. 4353. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:40:05 PM
The Guardian has it (search on Iraq Governing council resign). But I don't
see any US press. 4354. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:50:17 PM
But I can't think of a journalistic or national security reason to not report
it. Reuters doesn't seem to have it, either. Maybe it's wrong. AFP doesn't seem
to have it.
4355. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:52:17 PM
Sorry. I'm wrong about the guardian. It was an old story, referring to a
different instance.
4356. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 11:55:31 PM
I don't find it, in a ten minute review, Banks, on the web. Do you have a
link? Or some names?
4357. marjoribanks - 4/9/2004 11:58:54 PM
No one mentioned it on the news, and the Times doesn't have it. 4358. marjoribanks - 4/10/2004 12:02:30 AM
Okay, phew, the Globe has part of this critical story. 4359. jayackroyd - 4/10/2004 12:03:58 AM
Thanks. I'm surprised I couldn't find it on the afp site, since it is
attributed to them. And I agree tht this isn't like the Telegraph finding WMD on
their own--hard to believe without confirmation. Still, it would be good to have
some.
4360. jexster - 4/10/2004 12:04:41 AM
4361. marjoribanks - 4/10/2004 12:15:14 AM
It seems to me from reading between the lines in the press reporting that
some US troops let some of the food and supplies into the city as an act of
insubordination toward Donald Rumsfeld, refusing to fire on unarmed civilians to
stop them from entering the city with food. 4362. alistairConnor - 4/10/2004 7:46:48 AM
Will
the UK break ranks? 4363. jayackroyd - 4/10/2004 9:21:36 AM
If Bush was smart 4364. jayackroyd - 4/10/2004 10:19:21 AM
Of course, acting on my earlier expression of frustation--let them have their
civil war, and pull out--means that the invasion will have gained the US
nothing. No bases. No inside track to OPEC policymaking. No improvement to
Israeli security. Not necessarily a friendly government. Perhaps an islamist
government. 4365. jexster - 4/10/2004 1:02:37 PM
Seething City Filled with Dread 4366. jexster - 4/10/2004 1:03:07 PM
I sure feel better that we have a "Christian" president, don't you?
4367. jexster - 4/10/2004 1:06:00 PM
"If Bush were smart" was the same point in my discussion a few months ago
with a Clark operative...in his view, Bush wasn't smart but Rove was and would
see the handwriting on the wall and get the UN in... 4368. jexster - 4/10/2004 1:12:04 PM
Finally some TRUTH from CNN... 4369. robertjayb - 4/10/2004 1:26:05 PM
Man, this is serious shit! 4370. PsychProf - 4/10/2004 1:42:55 PM
SPARK- Apr 10, 2004 7:45 am (#1383 of 1390) 4371. jexster - 4/10/2004 1:49:27 PM
Coalition of the Bought and the Bailing: Japan in Political
Crisis
4372. robertjayb - 4/10/2004 1:53:49 PM
Some interesting bits in this UPI piece...
4373. jexster - 4/10/2004 1:53:55 PM
That's neat Prof...that also explains why MokieTada called for a
ceasefire...clearly it appears that his group's uprising has activated insurgent
elements that are beyond his ability to control...Sistani's fatwa that condemned
Bush for willful aggression against the People also blasted Sadr for his
"recklessness"...and indeed he is a hothead which explains why Bush deliberately
provoked the uprising which Sistani knows full well 4374. jexster - 4/10/2004 1:57:40 PM
The Freeper and Freakie Fundie Trailer Trash, the Booboisie that is Bush's
base has been mobilized to spread CPA propaganda about how great things are in
the New Democratic Colonia... 4375. jexster - 4/10/2004 2:05:24 PM
Message # 4361
4376. jexster - 4/10/2004 2:07:45 PM
Your Daily Obe Juan 4377. jexster - 4/10/2004 2:14:34 PM
Ya know Marj all those reports you couldn't find in the media...
4378. jexster - 4/10/2004 3:10:07 PM
For all you Werther fans, for all you Adolescent Power Rangers, for all you
befuddled Neo-Wilson Wilsonian naifs, brown nosing Imperial Bootlickers, and
most especially for you Neo-Con nutters whose days have numbers on them, the
wait is over the wait. 4379. jexster - 4/10/2004 3:11:34 PM
With such a build up one would think I coulda linked it right. 4380. jexster - 4/10/2004 3:12:57 PM
Teaser: 4381. jexster - 4/10/2004 3:17:42 PM
I posed them to Werther, a classical conservative with neo-Hegelian
intellectual tendencies — that is, genius with a touch of madness and Mencken,
in the best sense of the terms. He has now addressed them in another of his
famous essays. 4382. alistairConnor - 4/10/2004 5:31:10 PM
This thread, a year ago : 4383. alistairConnor - 4/10/2004 5:34:35 PM
6749. PincherMartin - 4/10/2003 5:43:00 AM 4384. alistairConnor - 4/10/2004 5:36:26 PM
6760. alistairConnor - 4/10/2003 3:25:37 PM 4385. alistairConnor - 4/10/2004 5:36:45 PM
Just as Blair convincingly spoke of the danger inherent in the convergence of
rogue states, technological advances in WMD and terrorist groups like Al Qaeda,
there is another convergence underway that will shake up the world. That is of
US-guaranteed security and freedom of speech, region-wide relatively free media,
and the sudden and euphoric liberation of a portion of Arabs. 4386. jexster - 4/10/2004 7:58:35 PM
Battleground
Baghad 4387. jexster - 4/10/2004 9:20:52 PM
Dick Cheney, "Meet The Press" - March 16, 2003: 4388. jexster - 4/10/2004 9:21:27 PM
4389. jexster - 4/10/2004 9:32:20 PM
FALLUJAH, Iraq - Hundreds of reinforcements joined fellow Marines besieging
Fallujah on Saturday, and the U.S. military said it would move to take the city
if cease-fire talks fail. Fighting raged through the center of the country,
killing 40 Iraqis and an American airman. 4390. jexster - 4/10/2004 9:35:51 PM
4391. jexster - 4/10/2004 10:48:11 PM
I mentioned a few days ago that a friend of mine who spent a career in US
military intelligence specializing in counter-terrorism is now in Iraq working
as a contractor providing security for companies and NGOs. 4392. jexster - 4/10/2004 10:48:44 PM
toys
4393. jexster - 4/10/2004 11:36:12 PM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Loud explosions echoed across Baghdad before dawn on
Sunday and smoke rose from near the headquarters of the U.S.-led administration
in the heavily fortified "Green Zone" on the banks of the Tigris river. 4394. jexster - 4/10/2004 11:38:23 PM
4395. jexster - 4/10/2004 11:53:59 PM
Part of what caused this incipient collapse of the US-appointed Iraqi
government is that the US military decided to besiege the entire city of
Fallujah to get at insurgents who killed 4 US Blackwater mercenaries last week,
even though reports indicated that the guerrillas left the city after the
killings. 4396. jexster - 4/11/2004 12:23:45 AM
The Archivist will have to go back several months to find my observation that
the Uniter-Not-A-Divider would eventually work his magic in the Colonia...
4397. jexster - 4/11/2004 1:10:52 AM
Pacify??? 4398. jexster - 4/11/2004 5:02:09 AM
Pilgrims
Throng Iraq Holy City, Bloodshed Feared 4399. jexster - 4/11/2004 12:50:06 PM
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) - A truce between US forces and insurgents in the
restive Iraqi town of Fallujah was holding after almost a week of fierce
clashes, but a US attack helicopter was downed and all on board killed.
4400. jexster - 4/11/2004 12:52:05 PM
4401. jexster - 4/11/2004 12:56:19 PM
Baqubah Revolution 4402. jexster - 4/11/2004 1:01:47 PM
Those M-1-A-1 Main Battle Tanks and Bradley "Fighting" vehicles were
supposedly designed to function in a thermonuclear environment.
4403. jexster - 4/11/2004 1:02:58 PM
Least that's what the DoD and the contractors told Senate staff when the
designed monies were authorized.... 4404. jexster - 4/11/2004 1:20:57 PM
What Went Wrong in Washington and the Green Zone
4405. alistairConnor - 4/11/2004 5:43:30 PM
That washington post article sums up the distilled wisdom of this thread over
the past year... I might as well stop posting the reruns... 4406. jexster - 4/11/2004 7:02:07 PM
ARcHVIST! Archivist take note of highlighted passage and confirm another
20/20 foresight moment - KODAK MOMENT! 4407. jexster - 4/11/2004 7:05:37 PM
Ou sont les Morons d'antan? 4408. wonkers2 - 4/11/2004 8:25:23 PM
Joezan?? Remember Michigan moties only go from good to excellent!
4409. jexster - 4/12/2004 10:04:00 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Insurgents have killed six U.S. soldiers in the past
three days in various attacks across the country, U.S. Central Command said in a
statement Monday. 4410. jexster - 4/12/2004 10:06:19 AM
4411. jexster - 4/12/2004 10:14:41 AM
BAGHDAD (AFP) - A total of 70 soldiers from the US-led coalition and 10 times
that number of Iraqis have been killed in clashes in Iraq (news - web sites)
since April 1, a senior US military official said.
4412. jexster - 4/12/2004 10:19:55 AM
The rumors going around Washington that Bush is going to meet Sharon and
give away everything to him, allow him to annex 45% of the West Bank, build the
wall, and put Palestinians in small Bantustans (all this negotiated by the
criminal Likudnik Elliot Abrams, whom the Neocons got appointed to the National
Security Council to deal with Israel-Palestine issues), bode ill for the future
of the American occupation of Iraq. The two occupations are profoundly
intertwined in the eyes of Iraqis, and the recent fighting in Iraq was in part
sparked by the Israeli murder of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the Hamas cleric. Bush
will never have credibility in Iraq if he rips up the road map and gives away
the West Bank to Sharon. Sharon's iron fist in the Occupied Territories is
likely to ignite new anti-American violence in Iraq in the coming year if Bush
goes supine this way. 4413. jexster - 4/12/2004 10:33:19 AM
Number of Muslims in the world: 1.3 billion 4414. PelleNilsson - 4/12/2004 11:24:29 AM
Iraq has 23 million inhabitants. 11 million are male. Of them 3-4 million are
of fighting age. All of those have military training and a significant portion
have battle experience. Weapons are no problem. 4415. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 12:10:20 PM
It's hard to imagine, actually, how things are going to get better in the
short term. 4416. PelleNilsson - 4/12/2004 12:23:26 PM
Precisely. The situation today is the result of massive cultural
insensitivity. The simple hillbillies in the US Army thought of the Iraqis as
'towelheads' and 'sand niggers' who will do as they are told, and if not you
just add a few lashes of the whip. 4417. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 12:30:11 PM
Actually, it is not the "simple hillbillies in the US Army" who have led to
this bleak situation, the rank and file are largely idealistic, highly trained
at their jobs (which do not include peacekeeping), and - from all accounts -
extremely sympathetic to the plight of the Iraqi man-on-the-street. 4418. PelleNilsson - 4/12/2004 12:48:04 PM
What I have read about the recruitment base of the US Army doesn't suggest
that it constitutes la creme de la creme of American society and to be
"idealistic" can be a severe handicap in the circumstances. 4419. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 1:05:00 PM
Pelle, 4420. jexster - 4/12/2004 1:20:15 PM
Top Stories - AP 4421. jexster - 4/12/2004 1:22:37 PM
Actually Marge is right...its the pseudoconservative warrriors who LEAD the
simple hillbillies who got us into this
4422. jexster - 4/12/2004 1:22:56 PM
and criminal Likudniks
4423. robertjayb - 4/12/2004 1:26:14 PM
Whoop! Looks like General Abizaid went around the gatekeepers this morning
with a televised press conference for the Pentagon press. He confirmed he had
asked for a two-brigade (10, 000 ?) increase in troop strength . He said many of
the U.S.-trained Iraqi troops did not perform well (or at all) and that he
wanted former Iraqi Army officers in the mix. Too bad they were abandoned when
we won the war. 4424. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 1:33:16 PM
Anyway, one of the more egregious examples of blinding arrogance on the part
of the Bushites has been the belief that they could steamroller Iraq into a
compliant state while simultaneously allowing Sharon to do what he wants in
Israel. In fact, the blindness on this point has probably directly fuelled the
fury Americans now face in Iraq. 4425. vonKreedon - 4/12/2004 1:34:49 PM
rjb - Yes, two brigades = ~10,000 troops.
4426. jexster - 4/12/2004 1:41:57 PM
Robert's cuz 4427. jexster - 4/12/2004 1:43:23 PM
T-E-T
4428. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 1:43:36 PM
Make no mistake, this is a very very significant development. 4429. vonKreedon - 4/12/2004 1:46:11 PM
Marj - Your question, Again, I ask, what's the percentage in chaos? There
must be one, because one cannot imagine that Bush would do such a thing in an
election period otherwise., assumes a level of competence that this
administration has not exhibited.
4430. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 1:51:12 PM
No, these people are cynical to an extreme, dismissive of international (and
domestic) opinion, frighteningly arrogant, ideologically blinkered, and more.
4431. vonKreedon - 4/12/2004 2:03:25 PM
Marj - So you take as a given that the administration is competent in its
foreign policy and so must be trying to make things as bad as they are? I think
this is giving them far too much credit and also fails the Occam's Razor test.
They are simply incompetent and pursuing faith based policies blinkered to
external realities.
4432. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 2:09:49 PM
Perhaps you're right. 4433. jayackroyd - 4/12/2004 2:38:51 PM
Or do they not believe that? Do they instead believe that a completely
roiled ME will prompt scared/cowed Americans to vote for the party they see as
stronger on defense? 4434. PelleNilsson - 4/12/2004 3:18:36 PM
In my view incompetence and unforeseen consequences are among the most
important forces that drive history. We now have the misfortune to watch a
contemporary example of that thesis.
4435. sakonige - 4/12/2004 4:01:07 PM
Well, it could have been much worse. Imagine how today might be if there
actually had been massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq.
We wouldn't be waking up from a year of illusory hope right now. We would be
living under martial law. I needed a year of relative peace.
4436. jexster - 4/12/2004 4:20:45 PM
The Iraqi "Army" refuses to participate in Bush's Fallujah Bloodbath
4437. jexster - 4/12/2004 4:26:12 PM
Good thought Pelle... 4438. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 4:43:58 PM
Another example of rockheaded cowboy swagger - the announcement by the
official US spokesman no less - "we want to capture or kill" al-Sadr.
4439. jexster - 4/12/2004 4:47:35 PM
They try that and they'll have to reckon with Obe Juan I reckin, ah do..
4440. jayackroyd - 4/12/2004 4:48:49 PM
Another example of rockheaded cowboy swagger - the announcement by the
official US spokesman no less - "we want to capture or kill" al-Sadr.
4441. jayackroyd - 4/12/2004 4:49:56 PM
Oh, and it also reinforces the idea that this is a war against Islam.
4442. jayackroyd - 4/12/2004 4:50:47 PM
Can't help the reformist elements in Iran, either.
4443. alistairConnor - 4/12/2004 5:01:53 PM
Maybe we're all missing something. Maybe this is all going according to plan.
4444. jexster - 4/12/2004 5:03:30 PM
If you don't think that US mideast policy is run from Likud Hdq...
4445. jexster - 4/12/2004 5:04:01 PM
How many Americans gonna have to die for that fat piece of crap?
4446. jexster - 4/12/2004 5:06:16 PM
Certainly seems like the re-election plan Sharon would follow...did follow...
4447. jexster - 4/12/2004 5:09:34 PM
Never misunderestimate the Jerusalem connection... 4448. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 5:21:07 PM
Bush is lookin to stoke such a conflagration that US voters might say "Oh
my oh my...we can't change presidents in the middle of a disaster like this no
matter how much we dislike him" 4449. jexster - 4/12/2004 5:21:52 PM
Fallujah has become the turning point for the
occupation of Iraq. Until now, Iraqi anger at the U.S. was widespread but
diffused. The past seven days have changed all that, as pictures of dead
children fill the TV screens across the nation. 4450. jexster - 4/12/2004 5:22:48 PM
Marjie..I think you have a real future in Bangalore...outsource Friedman!
4451. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 5:34:51 PM
It should also symbolize for Americans much that has gone wrong in the
US-led occupation of Iraq. 4452. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 5:35:39 PM
outsource Friedman! 4453. jexster - 4/12/2004 5:45:31 PM
There is actually such a movement I learned a few days ago. 4454. jexster - 4/12/2004 5:45:48 PM
On The Politics of Fear: 4455. vonKreedon - 4/12/2004 5:49:22 PM
Jay wrote, They said that?!? This is what comes of using the military as
diplomats. 4456. vonKreedon - 4/12/2004 5:49:53 PM
Emphasis added in my Sanchez quote.
4457. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 6:08:44 PM
The situation in Iraq has improved. But you're right, it was a tough week
because there was lawlessness and gangs that were trying to take the law in
their own hands, 4458. marjoribanks - 4/12/2004 6:11:20 PM
Those Sadr boys, now they was just born bad. 4459. jayackroyd - 4/12/2004 7:00:54 PM
the Colonel from the 101st who defused a very bad situation in Kerbala
early in the occupation for example. 4460. jexster - 4/12/2004 8:39:13 PM
Shiites to Busharon - Bring It On! 4461. jexster - 4/13/2004 1:40:26 AM
4462. jexster - 4/13/2004 1:42:00 AM
4463. jexster - 4/13/2004 1:45:44 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two strong blasts shook central Baghdad on Tuesday and
smoke could be seen rising from the U.S. administration's headquarters from
where sirens sounded, witnesses said. 4464. jexster - 4/13/2004 11:22:45 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A bomb attack on a U.S. convoy killed one American
soldier early on Tuesday and wounded another soldier as well as a civilian
contractor, the U.S. army said. 4465. jexster - 4/13/2004 11:24:18 AM
4466. jexster - 4/13/2004 2:05:01 PM
Nations Urge Citizens to Leave Iraq ASAP
4467. jexster - 4/13/2004 2:07:47 PM
4468. jexster - 4/13/2004 2:11:00 PM
The NYT reports that the son of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, Ridha, and
Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Sa`id al-Hakim, have also been involved in negotiations
with Muqtada. 4469. jexster - 4/13/2004 2:12:12 PM
"If they go into Najaf, it will be hell to pay." Juan Cole
4470. jexster - 4/13/2004 2:55:53 PM
About 40 hostages held in Iraq, Frenchman latest victim of kidnap
campaign
4471. jexster - 4/13/2004 3:14:19 PM
Moqtada
to Moron: Bring It On!
4472. jexster - 4/13/2004 3:17:37 PM
The
Howling Wilderness of Pseudoconservative Bullshitters: 4473. jexster - 4/13/2004 4:08:59 PM
UNITED NATIONS - Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) on Tuesday
virtually ruled out sending a large U.N. team to Iraq (news - web sites) "for
the foreseeable future" because of the recent upsurge in violence and
kidnappings
4474. jexster - 4/13/2004 5:07:17 PM
4475. jexster - 4/14/2004 12:31:35 AM
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) - A US military aircraft fired artillery rounds at
insurgents in the Sunni rebel bastion of Fallujah, a Marine officer told AFP
on condition of anonymity. 4476. jexster - 4/14/2004 11:47:01 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A large explosion was heard Wednesday in central Baghdad,
near hotels where foreign contractors and journalists are staying.
4477. robertjayb - 4/14/2004 11:58:34 AM
April is the cruelist month... 4478. jexster - 4/14/2004 2:31:38 PM
Fahreed Zakaria call this Our
Last Real Chance and while I have argued for a while now that we have no
real options nor chances, his litany of Bush failures in Iraq is worth reading.
4479. jexster - 4/14/2004 2:54:15 PM
Too Late Fareed, We're Fucked 4480. jexster - 4/14/2004 5:37:56 PM
RAY SUAREZ: Professor Cole, are the other clerics supporters, rivals? How do
we understand their role in confronting the Sadr problem that they have now?
4481. jexster - 4/14/2004 5:46:08 PM
4482. jexster - 4/14/2004 5:46:38 PM
Philadelphia, Pa.: How worried should we be? The impression I get is that
conditions, while not good, are not terrible for the U.S. right now, but could
rapidly spiral out of control at any moment. Is that an accurate assessment?
4483. jexster - 4/14/2004 5:51:05 PM
The Pulitzer prize winning correspondent on the Uniter-not-a-Divider's Big
Accomplishment in Iraq: 4484. marjoribanks - 4/14/2004 5:57:13 PM
4485. jexster - 4/14/2004 6:00:51 PM
CONFIRMED: U.S. Foreign Polich isn't made in Foggy Bottom anymore...
4486. jexster - 4/14/2004 6:08:23 PM
This is a total farce...I knew this would happen last week. 4487. jexster - 4/14/2004 6:14:50 PM
The night after Bush ran to the UN for help, the UN told Bush: 4488. robertjayb - 4/14/2004 7:49:33 PM
Riverbend's media
criticism, anti-Americanism... 4489. robertjayb - 4/15/2004 12:51:44 AM
Brahimi says dump Iraqi governing council...
4490. jayackroyd - 4/15/2004 1:03:20 AM
Well, that's good news. A lot of time pressure to come with a suitable
substitute, though.
4491. jexster - 4/15/2004 1:48:38 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two explosions echoed over central Baghdad on Thursday
and smoke was seen rising south of the U.S.-led administration's headquarters,
witnesses said. 4492. jexster - 4/15/2004 2:05:36 AM
UNITED NATIONS (AFP) - UN Secretary General Kofi Annan (news - web sites)
cautioned against making unilateral statements on the final outcome of
Palestinian-Israeli talks, implicitly criticizing US President George W. Bush
(news - web sites) for saying Palestinian refugees should not be allowed to
return to lands lost to Israel in 1948. 4493. jexster - 4/15/2004 2:07:36 AM
Turning over "sovereignty" to what? to whom? 4494. jexster - 4/15/2004 2:18:35 AM
Clean it up Wombat...yeah you're a real life taker and heart breaker...
4495. alistairConnor - 4/15/2004 3:06:59 AM
I'm waiting for confirmation of the news I heard on the radio this morning...
haven't seen it yet... 4496. alistairConnor - 4/15/2004 3:41:40 AM
Found
it in the Telegraph 4497. alistairConnor - 4/15/2004 4:38:44 AM
It's all about symbolism, and constructing the political space. 4498. jexster - 4/15/2004 10:33:21 AM
Check this out AC...not only does it look like he's a hero, but the US is
kowtowing to the Grand Jurisprudent of Iran... 4499. jexster - 4/15/2004 10:35:07 AM
For those adherents of the AlD/OsamaB/MohammedP Big Horsie Theory of Towel
Head Control this can only mean that Muqtada ride em heap big horsie 4500. jexster - 4/15/2004 11:08:02 AM
4501. jexster - 4/15/2004 11:15:05 AM
Unlike traditional twelve-course dinners, this one does not finish with a
dessert or a savoury. It ends, to borrow one of John Boyd’s favorite phrases,
with the “coalition” getting the whole enchilada right up the p--- chute. You
cannot get anything you want at Mohammed’s restaurant. 4502. concerned - 4/15/2004 11:29:19 AM
The 9/11 Commission is a National Disgrace as long as Gorelick is allowed to
remain on it 4503. alistairConnor - 4/15/2004 11:33:17 AM
The full scope of our disaster in Syracuse – er, sorry, Iraq –
4504. alistairConnor - 4/15/2004 11:33:43 AM
Thank you Con, that'll do.
4505. vonKreedon - 4/15/2004 11:34:23 AM
An interesting development in the Iran/Sadr case:
4506. vonKreedon - 4/15/2004 11:41:02 AM
AC - Interesting comparison between Iraq now and Syracuse ~413BC. I certainly
hope that the comparison proves false.
4507. concerned - 4/15/2004 11:41:09 AM
4508. concerned - 4/15/2004 11:45:04 AM
4509. vonKreedon - 4/15/2004 11:50:32 AM
Another ancient imperial comparison I, and others, have been mulling is Rome.
If Rome had invaded Iraq Fallujah would at this point be dust, its male
inhabitants lining the road from fallujah to Baghdad and its women and children
sold into slavery. Unfortunately for the neocon imperialists this form of
imperial behavior is no longer an option. 4510. alistairConnor - 4/15/2004 11:52:45 AM
vk... see my comments in the terrorism thread this morning, regarding
j.caesar...
4511. jexster - 4/15/2004 12:11:48 PM
Feinstein used her strongest language yet to criticize the Bush
administration's handling of intelligence reports before Sept. 11 and the
planning and aftermath of the Iraq invasion. 4512. vonKreedon - 4/15/2004 12:24:43 PM
AC - Yep, I was thinking of you.
4513. PelleNilsson - 4/15/2004 12:35:32 PM
In more recent times there is the example of Hama, a city in Syria, where in
1982 Hafez Assad's forces attacked leaving 15-20,00o dead and the city in ruins
as retaliation for "terrorist attacks" by the Muslim Brotherhodd.
4514. jexster - 4/15/2004 12:51:41 PM
sauve que peut
4515. jexster - 4/15/2004 1:09:25 PM
Timothy
Garton Ash: The French connection 4516. jexster - 4/15/2004 1:12:33 PM
As it looks today, it would have been better if we had kept Saddam's Iraq
boxed in, with a fiercely intrusive international regime of inspections and
overflights, while encouraging internal forces for democratisation in Iran and
Saudi Arabia, and continuing the slow grind towards peace between Israelis and
Palestinians. Not better for most Iraqis, probably; let's acknowledge that.
4517. jexster - 4/15/2004 1:39:28 PM
Message # 4502
4518. concerned - 4/15/2004 5:25:00 PM
Did Gorelick participate in the decision to nix special operations?
4519. jexster - 4/15/2004 7:37:07 PM
Don't worry...they aren't going to waste time on such nonsense... 4520. jexster - 4/15/2004 7:42:08 PM
Read what Bush didn't (couldn't? wouldn't?) 4521. jexster - 4/15/2004 7:42:28 PM
Bush lies, America bleeds
4522. concerned - 4/16/2004 12:10:20 AM
4523. robertjayb - 4/16/2004 12:31:59 AM
bushies may accept Brahimi hand-off plan...
4524. concerned - 4/16/2004 12:52:54 AM
This really belongs in Terrorism, but becaue I'm not interested in getting
into a war of deletion with a certain power mad administrator, it's here:
4525. concerned - 4/16/2004 1:01:01 AM
Kean's quiet attempt to press the issue on Gorelick's situation comes at a
time when there were mounting calls for the former Clinton political operative
to step aside from not only the House Judiciary Committee chairman James
Sensenbrenner but families of 9/11 victims concerned that the commission's
report would be tainted by her presence. 4526. concerned - 4/16/2004 1:03:28 AM
Filthy filthy filthy.
4527. concerned - 4/16/2004 1:21:41 AM
Gorelick's in a difficult situation. If she stays on the 9/11 Commission, its
recommendations are likely to be generally discounted. If she recuses herself,
its probable she'll be requested to give testimony to the same commission that
will be widely covered by the media and that will tend to deflect public
attention from the Bush Administration's anti-terrorism policy to the Xlowntoon
Administration, all of it negative. And it will reflect poorly on her career
also. 4528. concerned - 4/16/2004 1:33:52 AM
Will Gorelick commit career seppuku to promote the 9/11 Commission? Don't
hold your breaths.
4529. jayackroyd - 4/16/2004 1:53:36 AM
Well, one can't say that you're not on message, concerned. 4530. concerned - 4/16/2004 2:20:29 AM
Get a grip, jay. Your supposed lies and stonewalls don't exist.
4531. concerned - 4/16/2004 2:38:16 AM
If they'd done the work to make a humanitarian case against Iraq,
involving allies, Bush wouldn't to spout the obviously false claim that in
Saddam's absence, American's are safer (as dozens die in the theatre).
4532. concerned - 4/16/2004 3:21:17 AM
Probe to blow lid off massive U.N. scandal 4533. alistairConnor - 4/16/2004 6:29:27 AM
History will judge, Con... 4534. alistairConnor - 4/16/2004 6:31:52 AM
4535. alistairConnor - 4/16/2004 7:07:38 AM
Some American officials say that they expect Ahmad Chalabi, an exile
favored by the Pentagon, could be marginalized as a result of the new plan.
Aides to Mr. Brahimi make no secret of the envoy's disdain for Mr. Chalabi. Mr.
Rumsfeld is described by knowledgeable diplomats as still favoring a major role
for Mr. Chalabi in Iraq. 4536. alistairConnor - 4/16/2004 7:16:37 AM
But at the same time, things have flipflopped the opposite way with respect
to Israel/Palestine. Not only has Bush hung out his key ally Blair out to dry :
4537. jayackroyd - 4/16/2004 10:30:11 AM
There's a brutally analytical piece in salon by Juan Cole, on the
juxtaposition of US military action in Iraq and its support for Israel's
unilateral annexation of parts of the West Bank. 4538. jexster - 4/16/2004 10:43:01 AM
Woodward's Book Exposes Iraq Obsession & Lies
4539. jexster - 4/16/2004 10:44:35 AM
Unfit to govern.
4540. jexster - 4/16/2004 10:54:37 AM
Bluster
and Begging: The Duality of US Foreign Policy in the Middle East
4541. jexster - 4/16/2004 10:54:48 AM
And Colin Powell is writing them polite letters about bilateral relations and
could they please use their good offices to help the Americans in Iraq. It is
bizarre, and the urbane, canny leaders in Damascus and Tehran (who have long
experience of residence in the UK and Germany respectively), must be scratching
their heads in wonder at this Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde American hyperpower that rages
about an axis of evil and goes about preemptively invading countries on the one
hand and then comes politely, hat in hand, to request selfless assistance on the
other. 4542. jexster - 4/16/2004 10:56:23 AM
4543. jexster - 4/16/2004 11:09:08 AM
Sharon and Bush just painted big red targets on us all
4544. jexster - 4/16/2004 11:10:32 AM
Turning into Israel? 4545. jexster - 4/16/2004 11:27:26 AM
4546. jexster - 4/16/2004 11:32:12 AM
Anatol Lieven made exactly this point in his "The Push For War"
(Oct 2002) 4547. jexster - 4/16/2004 11:59:19 AM
4548. jexster - 4/16/2004 12:01:01 PM
The Dead: Sixty Four Killed in the Past Week 4549. jexster - 4/16/2004 12:05:07 PM
Twice now in the past decade, the overwhelming military and economic
dominance of the US has given it the chance to lead the rest of the world by
example and consensus. It could have adopted (and to a very limited degree under
Clinton did adopt) a strategy in which this dominance would be softened and
legitimised by economic and ecological generosity and responsibility, by
geopolitical restraint, and by 'a decent respect to the opinion of mankind', as
the US Declaration of Independence has it. The first occasion was the collapse
of the Soviet superpower enemy and of Communism as an ideology. The second was
the threat displayed by al-Qaida. Both chances have been lost - the first in
part, the second it seems conclusively. What we see now is the tragedy of a
great country, with noble impulses, successful institutions, magnificent
historical achievements and immense energies, which has become a menace to
itself and to mankind. 4550. jexster - 4/16/2004 12:26:38 PM
Democracy From the Barrel of
a Gun 4551. jexster - 4/16/2004 12:37:28 PM
"Your Fish Sir?" 4552. jexster - 4/16/2004 12:58:50 PM
From Swatting Flies to to stirring up hornets' nests
4553. jexster - 4/16/2004 1:11:21 PM
Iraq is not the only area where the administration's policy seems adrift.
The United States also appears to be ineffective in untangling the knots that
made Afghanistan a safe haven for al-Qaida.... While the Taliban have been
toppled from power, the administration's policy toward Pakistan has been to
embrace its military ruler, Gen. Pervez Musharraf. Rice describes this as a new
"carrot and stick" policy toward Pakistan. 4554. concerned - 4/16/2004 3:00:22 PM
What kind of idiot is Bob Woodward, anyway. He tries to make planning ahead a
negative wrt Iraq when not doing so for eight years resulted in 9/11.
4555. wonkers2 - 4/16/2004 3:40:51 PM
Sixty-four killed this past week. That's an annualized rate of about 3,300.
4556. jexster - 4/16/2004 9:15:12 PM
What kind of idiot is Bob Woodward, anyway. He tries to make planning
ahead a negative wrt Iraq when not doing so for eight years resulted in
9/11. 4557. jexster - 4/16/2004 9:18:19 PM
The better question, though is "Could there be any better evidence that Bush
is a complete nincompoop than his granting Woodward the interview from which the
damning words came?"
4558. jexster - 4/16/2004 9:26:00 PM
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy needed only one word in a
speech the other day to add fuel to a burning national debate: Vietnam.
4559. jexster - 4/16/2004 9:32:23 PM
"to maintain a prolonged foreign occupation of Iraq is to destabilize it only
further. Once the invader departs, there will no doubt be a civil war, which
will accelerate the dismemberment of the nation, giving rise to a fundamentalist
regime, which will make at least some people miss the era of Saddam" Regis
Debray 9/03/03 4560. wonkers2 - 4/16/2004 10:42:37 PM
Just returned from dinner with someone who is fairly astute about a wide
range of matters. He believes that OBL sucked the United States into attacking
Iraq and that our invasion served his purposes very well by raising the level of
conflict between the west and their client states (Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey,
Pakistan, against the radical Muslims. OBL strikes on 9-11 and we counter strike
in Afghanistan and then invade Iraq. Think about it. This scenario was
orchestrated by OBL and we played right into his hands.
4561. jayackroyd - 4/16/2004 11:52:07 PM
This is precisely what Juan Cole argues in an article in Salon today.
4562. jexster - 4/17/2004 12:03:25 AM
From the 9/11 Commission, to the Friendly confines of Langley VA, to Fleet
Street, to the Arab Streeet and back to main street, to the Bowels of the
Bush/Cheney Re-Slime Machine... 4563. jexster - 4/17/2004 12:13:40 AM
To our British cousins....don't take this poodle poo to personally...after
all better Bush's Poodle than the Likud's Lizard.... 4564. OhioSTOPAS - 4/17/2004 5:24:18 AM
"CIA director George Tenet confidently assured a skeptical President Bush
before the Iraq war that it was a "slam-dunk case" that Saddam Hussein had
weapons of mass destruction, according to a bombshell new book by Bob Woodward.
4565. jexster - 4/17/2004 10:16:20 AM
No. But it does provide about an hour of cross examination for any number of
WH witnesses before the IRAQ commission..next year. 4566. jexster - 4/17/2004 10:19:22 AM
Mmmm..wait a sec. ME believe ANYTHING that cheap little con artist says? It
has to be corrooborated..even if he told me the sun rises in the east, I'd
check. 4567. jexster - 4/17/2004 10:26:47 AM
4568. Magoseph - 4/17/2004 12:23:28 PM
There's a discussion on TV about the merits of an exchange of prisoners to
recover our captured soldier. The people who don't want it to happen parrot the
mantra of the Defense Department--We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those in
favor of exchange emphasize humanitarian considerations. 4569. jexster - 4/17/2004 12:34:50 PM
The
Vietnam Analogy 4570. robertjayb - 4/17/2004 1:31:35 PM
Urgent and persistent warnings...(NYTimes) 4571. alistairConnor - 4/17/2004 4:30:13 PM
So
the Israelis got Rantissi. I'm not shedding any tears for him but holy fuck,
talk about throwing oil on the fire...
4572. jexster - 4/17/2004 10:29:43 PM
All a part of the plan.
4573. jexster - 4/17/2004 10:33:32 PM
his plan.. 4574. jexster - 4/17/2004 10:42:30 PM
. RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE 4575. jexster - 4/17/2004 10:45:11 PM
III. SAFEGUARDING PEACE 4576. jexster - 4/17/2004 10:55:00 PM
4577. wonkers2 - 4/17/2004 11:01:59 PM
My favorite University of Michigan professor. A wise man. The mainstream
media are an integral part of the establishment.
4578. jexster - 4/17/2004 11:06:47 PM
4579. jexster - 4/17/2004 11:07:00 PM
RESOLVED: GWB is a menace to world peace 4580. robertjayb - 4/17/2004 11:22:12 PM
Tough Colin could snarl at a Congressional aide but wouldn't
confront "The Man"(Maureen Dowd) 4581. jexster - 4/17/2004 11:26:02 PM
COON RAPIDS, Minn. — The wrinkles in Pearl Dick's 81-year-old face folded
into a grimace of anger and disappointment as she scolded President Bush.
4582. wonkers2 - 4/17/2004 11:29:03 PM
Colin Powell always takes care of number one.
4583. jexster - 4/17/2004 11:29:42 PM
Its worse even than that Robt.. 4584. jexster - 4/17/2004 11:31:38 PM
Ah har ta-ul tahyt dey gon be servin up a mess uv brisskit an armahdillah
payh ayut tahty biig shindig welcumin thuh Guvnuh bayck tuh Crawfurd... 4585. wonkers2 - 4/17/2004 11:34:08 PM
I wonder how hard he really tried to convince Bush about Iraq and
Palestine/Israel. Bush still apparently made the connection between terrorism
and his relationship with Sharon.
4586. jexster - 4/17/2004 11:46:32 PM
Case in point re: Powell.. 4587. jexster - 4/17/2004 11:46:34 PM
Case in point re: Powell.. 4588. robertjayb - 4/18/2004 12:17:28 AM
Rethinkin' the stratergy...(WashPost) 4589. jexster - 4/18/2004 12:36:43 AM
Dang Robert that is SO Texican! 4590. jexster - 4/18/2004 12:42:39 AM
If Bush is up to his "advance planning" TD....I strongly suggest he look at
the Man the Boat Options...every rat for itself.
4591. jexster - 4/18/2004 12:44:44 AM
And Ace...I have one seat left in Dr. Poopstain's "Deprogramming for Neocon
Nutters and Adolescent Power Rangers"
4592. wonkers2 - 4/18/2004 9:24:48 AM
Erratum: Bush still apparently HASN'T made the connection between terrorism
and his relationship with Sharon/Israel/Palestine.
4593. jexster - 4/18/2004 10:47:20 AM
BAGHDAD, April 17 -- In the space of two weeks, a fierce insurgency in
Iraq (news - web sites) has isolated the U.S.-appointed civilian government and
stopped the American-financed reconstruction effort, as contractors hunker down
against waves of ambushes and kidnappings, according to U.S. and Iraqi
officials. 4594. jexster - 4/18/2004 10:48:46 AM
I think he's made the connection quite well Wonk...I think he knows he's a
terrorist
4595. alistairConnor - 4/18/2004 10:49:07 AM
Back in conspiracy theory mode... 4596. jexster - 4/18/2004 10:51:34 AM
Guerrillas coming out of Fallujah have complained bitterly that Kurdish
militiamen known as pesh merga are deployed against them. The Kurds are members
of the 36th Battalion of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, built from several
exile-based militias that supported the U.S.-led campaign against Saddam Hussein
(news - web sites). Commanders of another, overwhelmingly Arab Iraqi army
battalion refused to fight alongside the Marines 4597. jexster - 4/18/2004 10:51:54 AM
Its gonna be a bloodbath
4598. alistairConnor - 4/18/2004 11:04:04 AM
One true thing that Bush said the other day : "There is no civil war in
Iraq". 4599. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:07:53 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. newspaper said on Sunday that five U.S. Marines
and dozens of Iraqis had been killed in a 14-hour battle close to the Syrian
border 4600. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:13:06 AM
4601. wonkers2 - 4/18/2004 11:13:20 AM
The more I think about it the more Juan Cole's thesis strikes me as correct.
Just look at the situation from OBL's viewpoint. What does he want? What is he
trying to do? What makes him happy? What makes him unhappy? 4602. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:23:52 AM
Bush's pathetic beggin of the UN for help is about two years late and
billions of dollars short 4603. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:31:43 AM
Calm
before the storm in Baghdad 4604. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:45:00 AM
TD howze the "advance planning" coming? 4605. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:52:12 AM
More than 90 American soldiers have been killed in April, more than died in
last year's three-week war.
4606. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:53:38 AM
Hey Ace...Did you know that no outside occupier of a sovereign state has ever
prevailed against a nationalist insurgency?
4607. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:56:33 AM
Iraqi
exiles to stay in UK 4608. jexster - 4/18/2004 12:27:34 PM
Gen Kimmit passes out at podium...part of the Imperial Master Plan TD???
4609. jexster - 4/18/2004 12:41:31 PM
The Spanish PM announced that Spain will pull out ASAP.
4610. PelleNilsson - 4/18/2004 1:01:42 PM
jexster vs rest of the world: 22-8 and counting.
4611. jexster - 4/18/2004 1:56:32 PM
Read and learn. 4612. jexster - 4/18/2004 1:57:16 PM
Been waiting for 3 years for you to say something intelligent on this subject
4613. vonKreedon - 4/18/2004 2:03:40 PM
Jex - And we are waiting for you, your ownself, to say something on the
subject. I can read Juan Cole on my own. 4614. PelleNilsson - 4/18/2004 2:18:00 PM
Fuck you, jexster. I know more about this than you will ever learn. I've
submitted more reasoned posts on the subject than you will ever do. I could
continue to do so. But bad coinage drives out good.
4615. judithathome - 4/18/2004 3:00:48 PM
So, where's that measuring tape?
4616. jexster - 4/18/2004 4:33:59 PM
What security to which government? 4617. jexster - 4/18/2004 4:37:31 PM
We hear much blather from you Pelle but I have demonstrated, I have shown you
to be piss ignorant poseur. In fact, you will find if you search the archives
that I have consistently demonstrated accurate, incisive, and broad knowledge of
this subject. 4618. jexster - 4/18/2004 4:44:26 PM
Jag skulle inte ens pissa på dig om du brann! 4619. jexster - 4/18/2004 4:51:39 PM
Now moving from the ridiculous and insignificant to the sublime ...comment on
Message # 4573
4620. jexster - 4/18/2004 4:52:26 PM
Mucka inte med mig
4621. jexster - 4/18/2004 5:29:01 PM
Zapatero Orders Immediate Pulluout of Spanish Troops from Bush's
Colonia
4622. wonkers2 - 4/18/2004 7:20:11 PM
Most of Pelle's "reasoned posts" have been obsessive compulsive diatribes
about which thread something belongs in.
4623. jexster - 4/18/2004 8:24:47 PM
I cannot recall a Pelle post, reasoned or not. 4624. jexster - 4/18/2004 8:26:13 PM
About as rare as a Swedish kroner or artillery man in Iraq
4625. jexster - 4/18/2004 9:25:15 PM
Well I sure am glad that the Gulf States are so delighted we've saved them
from the regional threat of Saddam, aren't you Pelle? 4626. jexster - 4/18/2004 11:31:06 PM
WASHINGTON - Staff Sgt. Eric DiVona didn't notice the small bumps on his face
and left earlobe until he returned from serving nine months in Iraq (news - web
sites). Nothing much, he thought, probably just a spider bite. But soon those
bumps erupted into open sores, one growing to the size of a half dollar.
4627. jexster - 4/19/2004 2:44:52 AM
Spain
withdrawal from Iraq deals new blow to US "coalition" 4628. jexster - 4/19/2004 2:48:19 AM
Israel
vows to hit Hamas abroad 4629. jexster - 4/19/2004 2:49:33 AM
US
military shuts roads to halt bomb attacks 4630. jexster - 4/19/2004 3:17:07 AM
The
return of people's war 4631. PelleNilsson - 4/19/2004 9:27:42 AM
Who is the real prepubesecent here?
4632. alistairConnor - 4/19/2004 9:34:36 AM
I see Pelle's name on the thread, I come to read a substantive contribution
from him... no luck.
4633. PelleNilsson - 4/19/2004 9:41:52 AM
What's the use of trying to put anything sustantive here?
4634. uzmakk - 4/19/2004 10:04:40 AM
Jexster, you are a very poor spokesman for your cause. 4635. jexster - 4/19/2004 11:16:37 AM
You may not like the messenger and I do not care. 4636. jexster - 4/19/2004 11:18:48 AM
Make that "demonstrably dimwitted" 4637. jexster - 4/19/2004 11:24:19 AM
Again Message #
4633 4638. jexster - 4/19/2004 11:26:08 AM
Vilken jävla idiot
4639. jayackroyd - 4/19/2004 11:31:51 AM
jex- 4640. jexster - 4/19/2004 11:44:43 AM
Look I didn't start the shit but I damned well will finish it. 4641. jexster - 4/19/2004 11:45:10 AM
You can fuckin take that to the bank Jay.
4642. jexster - 4/19/2004 12:02:05 PM
Occam's Razor Jay...too much clutter in your Message # 4639...10
pounds of shit, 5 pound bag. 4643. jexster - 4/19/2004 12:36:43 PM
Last night our local news interviewed the mother of a San Jose Army reservist
whose son's tour was indefinitely extended. The soldier, described by his mother
as "gung ho", was notified literally as he was about to board a transport home.
Putting aside the question of what this incident tells us about the nature of
the insurgency and US planning for it, the mother related her son's bitterness.
"I have never heard him so angry. I was shocked. It was so unlike him" and also,
had some insight on overall troop morale ("He told me that morale among units in
Baghdad (now moving to Fallujah) was extremely bad"> 4644. jayackroyd - 4/19/2004 12:37:31 PM
There you go. That's what we're talking about. You've said more in this one
post than in 40 previous posts. 4645. jexster - 4/19/2004 12:37:41 PM
4646. jayackroyd - 4/19/2004 12:37:54 PM
That was in reference to 4642.
4647. jexster - 4/19/2004 12:41:43 PM
FROM PREVIOUSLY LINKED NEWS REPORTS, the story I heard on the news last night
is similar to stories being reported on local nightly news shows all over the
country and, connecting the dots for those with insufficient intelligence to do
it for themselves, ask yourselves: 4648. jexster - 4/19/2004 12:42:29 PM
Do I have to do EVERYTHING? 4649. jexster - 4/19/2004 12:49:12 PM
Is this a people's war? Message # 4630
4650. jexster - 4/19/2004 12:51:51 PM
Now I may not be a Visiting Scholar at the London School of Economics but you
can be damned sure that I know vastly more than PelleNilson does about this war
and the Conflict in the Middle East. 4651. robertjayb - 4/19/2004 12:58:19 PM
No surprise but CNN just said John Negroponte will be the U. S. Ambassador to
Iraq. 4652. jayackroyd - 4/19/2004 1:05:22 PM
I've been stunned by that. Eliot Abrams???? Are you kidding me? Poindexter???
Are you serious? 4653. robertjayb - 4/19/2004 1:59:38 PM
Ever mindful of winning hearts and minds, bushies return to 4654. jexster - 4/19/2004 2:02:38 PM
Bullshit blockers? 4655. jexster - 4/19/2004 2:13:23 PM
If you know your history,
4656. jexster - 4/19/2004 2:26:02 PM
The following by Prof
Juan Cole raises interesting questions: 4657. Magoseph - 4/19/2004 5:53:32 PM
I just saw Wolf Blitzer ask the military in Fillujah why they didn't
negotiate for an exchange of prisoners in the case of the American soldier being
held. He got the same answer they always give--we don't negotiate with
terrorists. The absurdity of this becomes clear when one notes that the previous
question by Blitzer was--what is the status of the negotiations with the
insurgents in Fillujah? The answer was that they continue.
4658. wonkers2 - 4/19/2004 5:57:06 PM
I've lost confidence in Blitzer in the last couple of years. He's too willing
to suck up to the administration and not ask the hard follow-up questions. Or
maybe he's not smart enough.
4659. jexster - 4/19/2004 9:04:03 PM
He was always a whore...I thought so especially during GWI of which I was a
gungo supporter of death and destruction. 4660. jexster - 4/19/2004 9:06:36 PM
Blitzer did a low of all lows Sunday tho...as I was reading story after story
after analyses of the rapidly deteriorating situation in Iraq Blitzer bent over
and blithely accepted Myers' blather "Sadr is marginalized...just a few
thugs...enemies of freedom...God Bless America..Columbia the Gem of the
Ocean..My country tis of thee..stay they course) 4661. OhioSTOPAS - 4/19/2004 9:17:28 PM
In Message #
4564 I questioned a dubious, oh-so-convenient story from Bob Woodward's new
book in which CIA Director George Tenet assures a skeptical,
show-me-the-evidence President Bush that Iraq indeed has weapons of mass
destruction. (Today I heard Glenn Beck, a tiresome Rush/Hannity wannabe talk
radio host, touting this story as proof that Bush was misled and never knowingly
lied about WMD's.) 4662. jexster - 4/19/2004 9:31:33 PM
A reporter with 30 years experience covering the UN flatly stated on NewsHour
that the UN will not be going to Iraq this year and not until there was a solid
Iraqi and international mandate plus solid security on the ground.
4663. jexster - 4/19/2004 9:35:30 PM
My take Ohio....Operation Weed the Garten.. 4664. jexster - 4/19/2004 9:37:24 PM
After all a reporter doesn't really have to work very hard to develop
evidence that Bush is clueless and Moron of us all. 4665. jexster - 4/19/2004 9:41:42 PM
This item not funny....shows we haven't a clue friend or foe: 4666. jexster - 4/19/2004 9:47:56 PM
4667. jexster - 4/20/2004 2:01:13 AM
Not the Presidente of Honduras..he's gettin out while the gittins
good...before he has to leave via camel 4668. jexster - 4/20/2004 2:19:22 AM
The following requires NO comment save that it is evidence that the
insurgents are prevailing against the Imperium of the Moron 4669. alistairConnor - 4/20/2004 6:04:07 AM
No-one
likes us, I don't know why. We may not be perfect, but heaven knows, we try.
4670. jexster - 4/20/2004 10:03:31 AM
This may help answer the question: 4671. jexster - 4/20/2004 10:06:17 AM
That of course is "grows"...Chinese have problems pronouncing "g"'s
4672. jexster - 4/20/2004 10:08:32 AM
Now here's a thought...what did Georgie make in history? Maybe he just done
learnt it wrong..."political power..." maybe he thought that came from
Lincoln???
4673. jexster - 4/20/2004 10:12:40 AM
Yes indeed I have checked the "Transcript that Screams: MORON" mid
70's...he's just confused.
4674. jexster - 4/20/2004 10:40:56 AM
Ah..a springtime stroll down memory lane Installment 3 4675. judithathome - 4/20/2004 11:19:47 AM
They have found 4 bodies identified as those of Halliburton contract workers.
(news flash on my local affiliate) The man who was filmed in the backseat of a
car after being taken hostage was not among the four.
4676. jexster - 4/20/2004 2:18:40 PM
Hagel: Reinstitute the Draft...Raise the Marginal Cost of War
4677. jexster - 4/20/2004 2:22:20 PM
JAH...the point I raised a couple days back... 4678. jexster - 4/20/2004 2:23:04 PM
4679. jayackroyd - 4/20/2004 2:25:15 PM
4676. 4680. vonKreedon - 4/20/2004 3:52:15 PM
I was thinking about a question asked of the President at his Press
Conference. I forget the journalist, but the question asked about the second or
third largest armed force in Iraq is private contract security, often refered to
as mercenaries. 4681. jayackroyd - 4/20/2004 3:56:02 PM
I think that's why you're seeing the stories from the mercenaries complaining
they can't get help from the military when they get into trouble. Using
nonuniformed mercenaries as combatants is a violation of the Geneva Convention.
And, of course, the combatants have no rights under the Convention.
4682. jexster - 4/20/2004 4:20:38 PM
Coulda fooled me! 4683. jexster - 4/20/2004 4:24:17 PM
A thorough discussion of the issue may be found at 4684. Magoseph - 4/20/2004 5:26:23 PM
It's hard for me to believe that Chalabi has been named by the Bush
administration to mastermind the trial of Saddam and has appointed both the
tribunal and the judges. One could spend months looking for a less satisfactory
solution to the Saddam problem and never find it. It's probably the most
outstanding blunder yet of an incredibly inept administration. 4685. judithathome - 4/20/2004 5:32:05 PM
As well they should...the great unwashed will only see this as Saddam going
to trial and being brought there by the Gtreat Liberator.
4686. alistairConnor - 4/20/2004 5:32:11 PM
Do you have a source for that Mago? It's monstrous indeed.
4687. judithathome - 4/20/2004 5:43:37 PM
I heard it but can't find the cite on AP or CNN...
4688. judithathome - 4/20/2004 5:46:28 PM
4689. Magoseph - 4/20/2004 5:47:00 PM
Ali, it was on CNN a few minutes ago on the Wolf Blitzer show. It's official,
I'm afraid
4690. Absensia - 4/20/2004 5:49:00 PM
Cnn is reporting it here. Alistar:
4691. jexster - 4/20/2004 5:49:27 PM
The story doesn't say that he is related to the Ahmad..the BAD Chalabi....
4692. jexster - 4/20/2004 5:51:30 PM
But CNN does... 4693. Absensia - 4/20/2004 5:51:53 PM
CNN says he is the nephew of Salem Chalabi, the head the Iraqi National
Congress. 4694. jexster - 4/20/2004 5:53:23 PM
The puppet council that never had any legitimacy and now in effect doesn't
even exist is going use the nephew of a convicted embezzler that no one trusts
to try Saddam... 4695. jexster - 4/20/2004 5:54:10 PM
Un-fucking-believable.. 4696. jexster - 4/20/2004 5:56:08 PM
And speaking of all meat political moves...this doesn't rank as high but its
certainly an indication that CENTCOM is totally out of touch with reality:
4697. jexster - 4/20/2004 5:57:21 PM
Where it counts...in their dead brains
4698. jexster - 4/20/2004 8:37:38 PM
I had completely forgotten this: 4699. jexster - 4/20/2004 9:31:09 PM
Arab
ally snubs Bush amid 'unprecedented hatred' for US 4700. jexster - 4/20/2004 9:32:49 PM
"democracy flows from the barrel of a gun"
4701. jexster - 4/20/2004 11:54:00 PM
Today the Bush Regime told Congress it wasn't hiding war costs... 4702. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 4/21/2004 8:15:07 AM
4703. jexster - 4/21/2004 9:04:10 AM
"Jason Vest of the Village Voice has gotten hold of a juicy Coalition Provisional
Authority memo that details political corruption among American-appointed Iraqi
politicians, the actual lack of electricity, the ways in which Iranian money is
flowing into the country, and the proliferation of militias and dependence
of Interim Govering Council members on them. 4704. jexster - 4/21/2004 9:09:28 AM
the memo asserts that the U.S. "share[s] culpability in the eyes of
ordinary Iraqis" for engendering Iraq's currently cronyistic state; since
"we appointed the Governing Council members . . . their corruption is our
corruption." The author then notes that two individuals--names again
redacted--have successfully worked to exclude certain strains of Shia from
obtaining ministerial-level positions, and that for this "Iraqis blame Bremer,
especially because the [CPA] Governance Group had assured Iraqis that exclusion
from the Governing Council did not mean an exclusion from the process. As it
turns out, we lied. People from Kut [a city south of Baghdad recently besieged
by Shiite forces loyal to Muqtada al Sadr], for example, see that they have no
representation on the Governing Council, and many predict civil war since they
doubt that the Governing Council will really allow elections." 4705. jexster - 4/21/2004 9:11:26 AM
The memo also characterizes the CPA's border-security policy as
"completely irrelevant," going so far as to state that "it is undeniable that
a crumbling Baathist regime did better than we have" in that regard
CPA 4706. jexster - 4/21/2004 9:20:38 AM
And TD, what about all that advance planning??? 4707. jexster - 4/21/2004 9:23:05 AM
Margie/Wombat and other Happy Neo-Wilsonian Anglophones: 4708. robertjayb - 4/21/2004 12:15:07 PM
Tipping Point? 4709. judithathome - 4/21/2004 12:52:45 PM
Q Mr. Secretary, can I ask you about your opening statement? You said that
the challenge in Fallujah is being contained and that the situation in the south
has largely stabilized. And I wonder, if that's the case, why then is it
necessary to keep extra troops in Iraq for 90 days? 4710. PelleNilsson - 4/21/2004 1:53:19 PM
I see that Kerry fully backs Bush on the Sharon plan. A bit disappointing
that.
4711. wonkers2 - 4/21/2004 2:03:57 PM
True, but that's apparently the reality of American politics. However,
Clinton was much closer to being in the middle of the road, and I imagine and
hope Kerry will be also. I am going to watch Kerry's statements on
Palestine/Israel and exercise my right as a contributor (small) to give him a
piece of my mind. 4712. jexster - 4/21/2004 3:26:26 PM
Imperium
Says Coalition of the Bungling Not Crumbling LIE
4713. jexster - 4/21/2004 7:36:45 PM
Military admits that 1 in 10 of crumbling Iraqi security forces are fighting
for the resistance and 40% walk off the job at the first sign of trouble.
4714. jexster - 4/21/2004 7:37:24 PM
"power" 4715. jexster - 4/21/2004 9:48:24 PM
This Imperial Adventure based on lies - about WMD, about Saddam, about
liberation, about democracy - is about to crumble to dust. 4716. jexster - 4/22/2004 1:33:06 AM
US Mistakes in Iraq: 4717. jexster - 4/22/2004 1:42:27 AM
The Current Problems 4718. jexster - 4/22/2004 1:48:42 AM
And again....the discussion on this thread about free elections a few months
back... 4719. Magoseph - 4/22/2004 9:24:18 AM
Iraq Could Doom Bush, By Dick Morris 4720. jayackroyd - 4/22/2004 9:28:06 AM
So sing together: Chalaaaabiii whoa-oh-whoa Chalaaaabiii.
4721. jexster - 4/22/2004 12:03:19 PM
Chalabi - Dictator 4722. jexster - 4/22/2004 12:06:53 PM
An Idiot with a road map in search of a plan
4723. jexster - 4/22/2004 12:49:41 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq - German engineering giant Siemens AG (news - web sites) has
pulled its employees out of Iraq (news - web sites), and U.S.-based General
Electric Co. has suspended some of its operations because of security concerns,
officials said Thursday. 4724. jexster - 4/22/2004 12:56:29 PM
The Song
of the Germans 4725. Magoseph - 4/22/2004 2:24:20 PM
4726. Magoseph - 4/22/2004 2:31:35 PM
U.S. to rehire Iraqis it fired 4727. jexster - 4/22/2004 3:01:21 PM
Fire the baathists 4728. jexster - 4/22/2004 3:03:01 PM
4729. judithathome - 4/22/2004 3:09:17 PM
Woman Who Took Photo Let Go 4730. jexster - 4/22/2004 3:15:17 PM
For those who scoff at the idea that we are becoming a neo-fascist state ....
4731. jexster - 4/22/2004 3:17:01 PM
It was quite an experience to be on the same panel on Tuesday with Richard
Perle and Toby Dodge, before the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Perle
wasn't added until the last minute, and it is mysterious why he was there, since
ours was supposed to be an "expert" panel. Dodge has an important book on Iraq.
Originally Ahmad Hashim was going to be on with us (he came Wednesday instead),
and then we heard Perle had been put on. Perle, of course, is no Iraq expert. He
doesn't know a word of Arabic, and has never lived anywhere in the Arab
world. 4732. OhioSTOPAS - 4/22/2004 3:30:18 PM
Reports of the firing of Tami Silicio state that her husband was also fired.
??!?
4733. judithathome - 4/22/2004 3:31:44 PM
Yes, guilt by association, I suppose. Isn't that the biggest crock of shit
you've ever seen?
4734. judithathome - 4/22/2004 3:33:45 PM
In the article I linked to, it said her husband was also fired. 4735. jexster - 4/22/2004 3:34:49 PM
THIS is almost as pathetic..no more so 4736. jexster - 4/22/2004 3:37:26 PM
I am on Bush Bullshit like white on fuckin rice... 4737. robertjayb - 4/22/2004 11:25:44 PM
Those towel-heads didn't expect actual sovereignty, did they? From
the flim-flam cowboys? (NYTimes) 4738. robertjayb - 4/22/2004 11:26:22 PM
toys
4739. robertjayb - 4/22/2004 11:27:22 PM
4740. robertjayb - 4/22/2004 11:28:30 PM
HELP?
4741. jexster - 4/22/2004 11:34:54 PM
4742. jexster - 4/22/2004 11:40:55 PM
4743. jexster - 4/23/2004 2:30:54 AM
NBC3 had an interview tonight with the President and with the COO of The
Steele Foundation, a private security contractor in SF with operations in Iraq.
4744. jexster - 4/23/2004 2:35:48 AM
4745. Ulgine Barrows - 4/23/2004 2:38:29 AM
I've never understood your fascination of the dead warriors. 4746. jexster - 4/23/2004 2:44:20 AM
I've never understood your fascination of the dead warriors
4747. jexster - 4/23/2004 2:51:08 AM
A few months ago I asked an Arab what he thought of Bush's War on Iraq.
4748. Ulgine Barrows - 4/23/2004 2:55:45 AM
'Knowledge will forever govern ignorance' 4749. jexster - 4/23/2004 3:10:14 AM
Yes indeed.
4750. jexster - 4/23/2004 3:11:37 AM
Iran to
Bush: Stay Out of Najaf
4751. Ulgine Barrows - 4/23/2004 3:24:47 AM
'Three senior clerics used stronger language' than I will, in saying,
"jexster please give some indication of what posessed you to post that link."
4752. alistairConnor - 4/23/2004 3:49:45 AM
Imagine the IRA holed up in the Vatican.
4753. Ulgine Barrows - 4/23/2004 3:53:31 AM
Honestly, I can't think of that, were you thinking lots of bombs and
schoolchildren dead? Or they planned security finally?
4754. alistairConnor - 4/23/2004 3:53:41 AM
For a man whose only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Sure,
the Marines can take Najaf, and Falluja. What problem does this solve?
4755. Ulgine Barrows - 4/23/2004 3:57:24 AM
You jacking yourself off?
4756. alistairConnor - 4/23/2004 4:11:47 AM
No, I'm angry.
4757. Magoseph - 4/23/2004 9:13:17 AM
The city of Falluja is about 282,000. US forces estimate there are about
3,000 Jihadists prepared to give up their lives in defense of the city and
receive instant nirvana. About 20 % are believed to be foreigners. They have had
sufficient time to dig in strategically throughout the city. Military experts
estimate the proper ratio required is between ten and twenty to one for a
successful storming operation. This amounts to a requirement of between a 30 and
60 thousand-man assault force. The last report I heard was that the US forces
amounted to 3,500. 4758. Magoseph - 4/23/2004 9:16:12 AM
Of course, the Bush people are desperately trying to escape the reality which
looms ahead by contacting middle-senior Baath party army officers and abolishing
their policy of exclusion--their hope being that this group will throw in with
the US against the foreigners for being reinstated.
4759. Macnas - 4/23/2004 9:43:55 AM
Most insurgent (and civilian) casualties in Falluja have been caused by
airbomb/helicopter rocket strikes. If the Marines or whoever conduct the
fighting in a light infantry role, the US casualty rate would be considerably
higher. 4760. jexster - 4/23/2004 9:45:29 AM
4761. PelleNilsson - 4/23/2004 11:45:31 AM
I don't like the term "jihadists". It is such a catch-all thing and it has
religious connotations which may well be false. magoseph is trapped into this
kind of thinking when she speaks of "instant nirvana" (and of course "nirvana"
is an unknown concept in Islam). The fighters in Falluja may well be from the
former security forces or the army. 4762. jayackroyd - 4/23/2004 11:49:17 AM
Get some agreement from the political leaders to stop the fighting and do
some jaw-jaw? you never know, it might actually work. 4763. jexster - 4/23/2004 11:52:42 AM
That's a good point Pelle. 4764. jayackroyd - 4/23/2004 11:53:27 AM
I don't like the term "jihadists". It is such a catch-all thing and it has
religious connotations which may well be false. 4765. PelleNilsson - 4/23/2004 11:59:07 AM
On what ground should these peole be called Jihadists? What tells you that
they are not secular opponents to occupation?
4766. marjoribanks - 4/23/2004 12:11:40 PM
Jihadi simply means 'one who is waging jihad', and thus could potentially
apply to anyone engaged in jihad (which can also be non-violent).
4767. PelleNilsson - 4/23/2004 12:30:28 PM
It's a rhetorical device, of course. Those who oppose the occupation =
jihadists = irrational muslim fanatics. People would do well not to fall for
this because it hampers serious analysis of what is happening.
4768. robertjayb - 4/23/2004 12:37:05 PM
The start of a trend? 4769. marjoribanks - 4/23/2004 12:40:25 PM
Well, it's flat out hard to tell what is happening right now. 4770. Magoseph - 4/23/2004 12:53:28 PM
4771. jexster - 4/23/2004 1:49:39 PM
HeadlineNEws is reporting that Sharon has all but decided to assassinate
Arafat and raised the subject in his meeting with Bush.. 4772. marjoribanks - 4/23/2004 1:56:46 PM
A bit bleak, but overall an excellent article from the LRB. Could be a useful
jumping-off point for discussion here. 4773. PelleNilsson - 4/23/2004 1:59:50 PM
By and large I agree with marj's analysis in #4769.
4774. jexster - 4/23/2004 2:00:46 PM
Well I do put my money where my mouth is...See the second in a series of
e-mail exchanges I have had with Josh Marshall over the past few hours...in
Election
4775. jexster - 4/23/2004 2:02:04 PM
Sorry to interrupt the discussion but as the LRB article makes clear, its
really all of a piece when you think about it for a bit
4776. PelleNilsson - 4/23/2004 2:03:37 PM
Where?
4777. jexster - 4/23/2004 2:06:35 PM
Huh? 4778. jexster - 4/23/2004 2:08:44 PM
As always a qualifier: it is for convenience of explanation that I ascribe a
unitary, integrated world view here...it is really a composite of views of
various actors in control of US foreign policy.
4779. robertjayb - 4/23/2004 2:59:11 PM
Brahimi commits truth, Kofi hedges, Israelis howl...
4780. marjoribanks - 4/23/2004 3:16:24 PM
At the same time, though, Brahimi has caved on several key aspects to the
"sovereign" caretaker government. 4781. jayackroyd - 4/23/2004 3:22:04 PM
On what ground should these peole be called Jihadists? What tells you that
they are not secular opponents to occupation? 4782. jayackroyd - 4/23/2004 3:23:48 PM
4767 4783. jayackroyd - 4/23/2004 3:24:28 PM
People would do well not to fall for this because it hampers serious
analysis of what is happening. 4784. jayackroyd - 4/23/2004 3:26:16 PM
In fact, um, that's what the US did have before Hussein misstepped and
took Kuwait. 4785. OhioSTOPAS - 4/23/2004 3:44:01 PM
Gullible
public still believes: 4786. jayackroyd - 4/23/2004 4:17:11 PM
I think the reason the Bushies keep saying that it is all "political" is to
stifle the truth. They want any oppostion statement to be taken as distorting
the truth. And, really, what can you do when the president just keeps lying
about it. He is STILL saying that he expects the weapons to be found.
4787. alistairConnor - 4/23/2004 6:25:23 PM
But it's still pretty amazing. 4788. wonkers2 - 4/23/2004 9:17:54 PM
You put your finger on the problem. They read newspaper headlines and catch
TV soundbites.
4789. jexster - 4/23/2004 10:05:53 PM
CNN: As Marines prepare to renew the bloodshed in Fallujah, the very name of
the town has become a rallying cry uniting Sunni and Shiite in Iraq.
4790. Magoseph - 4/24/2004 7:09:21 AM
U.S., U.N. Seek New Leaders For Iraq 4791. alistairConnor - 4/24/2004 7:19:41 AM
UN/State dept have the upper hand, you think? 4792. Magoseph - 4/24/2004 8:17:27 AM
Ali, what I think is that Bush is a man possessed in respect to the winning
of this election. It's just possible that a third party whom he respects has
gotten through the neo-con wall. He may now be willing to dump them in one sense
or another if he believes they have become a devastating impairment. 4793. jexster - 4/24/2004 10:03:46 AM
Does this handbasket go to hell? 4794. jexster - 4/24/2004 10:04:50 AM
Stay the course Mago...
4795. jexster - 4/24/2004 10:10:09 AM
Make that 5 more US soldiers dead for Bush 4796. jexster - 4/24/2004 10:22:10 AM
I guess I gotta be wrong at least once.. 4797. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 4/24/2004 10:42:11 AM
4798. jexster - 4/24/2004 11:12:46 AM
Here's Juan Cole's take on Chalabi: 4799. jexster - 4/24/2004 12:19:01 PM
Two good articles in Slate... 4800. jexster - 4/24/2004 12:42:20 PM
FYI the Army war college study cited (Military now stretched to breaking
point) has been previously linked here and in Terrorism thread Bounding
the Global War on Terror 4801. robertjayb - 4/24/2004 4:07:58 PM
AP Casualty wrapup... 4802. robertjayb - 4/24/2004 4:14:30 PM
Now they've done it! 4803. jexster - 4/24/2004 5:26:08 PM
Beat me to it Robert... 4804. Magoseph - 4/25/2004 1:21:34 PM
Based on the latest news reports, the fox has finally been flushed from
cover, as they say around here. Bush is now ensconced at Camp David in
consultation with his military commanders in respect to the crisis developing at
Falluja. Reading between the lines, I gather the commanders are reluctant to
take decisive action without orders from the President. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz
will no longer do. 4805. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 4/25/2004 1:48:47 PM
I'm sure they're trying to come up with more short-term, trumped-up solutions
like the one in the following link . . . 4806. alistairConnor - 4/25/2004 6:52:08 PM
This could be a crucial moment, the showdown between the machos and the
wusses. 4807. wonkers2 - 4/25/2004 6:53:50 PM
God will advise him what to do.
4808. alistairConnor - 4/26/2004 5:41:50 AM
In
the absence of meaningful political negotiations, it seems that the army is in
charge of diplomacy in Iraq : 4809. Magoseph - 4/26/2004 10:10:50 AM
The Marines put minor pressure on a small area of Felluja this morning and
after taking ten wounded, they had to call in air strikes. This is an
illustration of the US dilemma. The fortifications developed by the insurgents
improve every day. The US force is too small to prevent continuous reinforcement
by the insurgents. An immediate attack in force is certain to result in
tremendous casualties both Marine and civilian. 4810. marjoribanks - 4/26/2004 11:34:55 AM
Not good, getting worse. 4811. marjoribanks - 4/26/2004 11:37:56 AM
Magoseph, 4812. marjoribanks - 4/26/2004 12:29:09 PM
An AFP brief here printed in a Jordanian paper unerlines the point I'm making
above - 4813. jayackroyd - 4/26/2004 12:35:34 PM
4811 4814. marjoribanks - 4/26/2004 1:09:27 PM
Peter Galbraith, the veteran of the US Foreign Service, has written a deeply
depressing, extremely detailed and sobering analysis of the Iraq campaign in the
NYRB. 4815. Magoseph - 4/26/2004 2:25:38 PM
Thanks for the link, Marj, and also for the correction. 4816. alistairConnor - 4/26/2004 3:15:03 PM
That would certainly vindicate Powell for staying in his job; it might even
be seen, in the long term, as a particularly noble form of abnegation on his
part, if it allows damage control at this late stage.
4817. Magoseph - 4/26/2004 3:53:59 PM
Ali, 4818. jroth - 4/26/2004 10:08:45 PM
For those interested in what a full scale incursion into Fallujah might
entail, I recommend the book Thunder Run by David Zucchino. This is an excellent
telling of the the crucial battles that ended the battle for Baghdad. The
ferocity of the fighting was underreported at the time, but the book makes the
case that the decisive action by the 2nd Brigade of the 3rd ID prevented a long
siege of the city as was originally planned by the Pentagon and Centcom.
4819. jroth - 4/26/2004 10:21:29 PM
I'm also reading the Woodard book, Plan of Attack. What strikes me is the
banality of the 'deliberations'. These guys could call upon the collective
expertise and analytic talent of thousands of very bright people, and they end
up making major decisions with less thought than choosing a restaurant. I know
for a fact that the launch of a new breakfast cereal gets more thought than Bush
put into this one.
4820. wonkers2 - 4/26/2004 10:29:31 PM
That seems to be true of Bush's apparently rather casual adoption of his
preemptive war policy.
4821. OhioSTOPAS - 4/26/2004 10:45:32 PM
And the ignoring of forecasts and advice from our intelligence professionals
regarding the post-war occupation.
4822. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 4/26/2004 11:34:04 PM
4823. jayackroyd - 4/27/2004 3:22:28 AM
Thanks for the Thunder Run recommendation, jroth. I'll check it out.
4824. alistairConnor - 4/27/2004 3:56:06 AM
No good resolution, but there are a number of things that can be done to stop
the situation getting worse. 4825. Macnas - 4/27/2004 6:58:18 AM
Bad news, as the US marines decide to bomb a mosque to neutralise it as a base of fire for insurgents
in Falluja. 4826. alistairConnor - 4/27/2004 8:59:15 AM
Well,
here's some good news at least. 4827. alistairConnor - 4/27/2004 9:02:15 AM
Listen
to these people. They are the best friends you have. And better allies than
money can buy. 4828. robertjayb - 4/27/2004 11:33:47 PM
a belated look at Feith-based intelligence...(NYTimes)
4829. jexster - 4/28/2004 12:05:48 PM
4830. jexster - 4/28/2004 1:07:21 PM
Talk about conflated and confused corn pone.. 4831. alistairConnor - 4/29/2004 9:00:43 AM
Here's some good news : 4832. alistairConnor - 4/29/2004 10:37:10 AM
There
is no doubt about it, this is a major turnaround. 4833. Magoseph - 4/29/2004 11:09:02 AM
The Washington Post is jumping the gun, Ali, according to CNN news. 4834. alistairConnor - 4/29/2004 11:15:08 AM
The Guardian and the BBC have the story
too : 4835. alistairConnor - 4/29/2004 11:18:07 AM
So, they are going to recruit (overnight) 1000 or so former Iraqi Army
soldiers and officers, all of them Sunni. And these guys are going to get tough
with the insurgents. 4836. jexster - 4/29/2004 12:24:55 PM
In a poll taken before the butchery in Fallujah 4837. jexster - 4/29/2004 12:25:45 PM
ABC Nightline flat out said "The Marines will win in Fallujah but the US has
already lost"
4838. robertjayb - 4/29/2004 12:39:19 PM
4839. jexster - 4/29/2004 12:40:41 PM
4840. OhioSTOPAS - 4/29/2004 1:15:11 PM
"Nightline"
censored by pro-Bush corporation. 4841. OhioSTOPAS - 4/29/2004 1:24:50 PM
A correction: Sinclair Broadcast Group owns 62 stations, not 8. (8 of its
stations are ABC affiliates on which "Nightline" is broadcast.) 4842. jayackroyd - 4/29/2004 1:33:36 PM
An original way to put down a rebellion! 4843. jexster - 4/29/2004 2:10:34 PM
I don't know if ya saw CBS news last night but several unidentified marines
also were the voices of reason. 4844. jexster - 4/29/2004 2:51:13 PM
4845. jexster - 4/29/2004 2:52:14 PM
Those are pre-Fallujah, pre-attack on Sadr numbers
4846. jexster - 4/29/2004 2:54:12 PM
Those are pre-Fallujah, pre-attack on Sadr numbers 4847. alistairconnor - 4/29/2004 3:42:29 PM
It's been reported that the military insisted on a direct order from the
president, personally, before they would invade Fallujah. Perhaps that got the
president's attention. 4848. jayackroyd - 4/29/2004 4:06:57 PM
If this is the cnn poll jexster citing, it's the first one I've seen that
used methods that were the least bit reliable--face to face interviews with a
random selection of people by Iraqi canvassers--drawn from the Iraqi census
bureau.
4849. jayackroyd - 4/29/2004 4:08:08 PM
and now we've got to be grateful because the fucking yoyo has changed his
mind and backed down. 4850. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 4/29/2004 4:48:21 PM
How do you ask the last man in Iraq to die for a reckless imbecile"
4851. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 4/29/2004 4:50:22 PM
4852. jexster - 4/29/2004 6:11:32 PM
Fight for Iraq 4853. jexster - 4/29/2004 6:38:02 PM
That man is COLD....calm, rational, analytical - both he and I have said
exactly the same thing throughout.. 4854. robertjayb - 4/30/2004 12:22:24 AM
Paul Krugman: All the information I've been able to get
my hands on indicates that the security situation in Iraq is really, really bad.
It's not a good sign when, a year into an occupation, the occupying army sends
for more tanks. Western civilians have retreated to armed enclaves. U.S. forces
are strong enough to defend those enclaves, and probably strong enough to keep
essential supplies flowing. But we don't have remotely enough troops to turn the
vicious circle around. The Iraqi forces that were supposed to fill the security
gap collapsed — or turned against us — at the first sign of trouble.
4855. Magoseph - 4/30/2004 9:20:34 AM
The capitulation of the Administration at Felluja will be, it appears to
historians, the Stalingrad of Iraq. From now on it's downhill and just a matter
of time, states a prominent military observer on national TV.
4856. jexster - 4/30/2004 10:43:41 AM
4857. jexster - 4/30/2004 10:51:34 AM
Try searching "abu garaib" in the Washington Post or the New York Times...
4858. robertjayb - 4/30/2004 11:00:11 AM
Leaving Fallujah? Maybe not...just repositioning...
4859. jexster - 4/30/2004 11:02:24 AM
The Los Angeles times has the story on 4860. jexster - 4/30/2004 11:04:56 AM
The pictures - believed to date from November or December last year, but
only broadcast last night - show a hooded prisoner with a noose around his neck
and electric wires attached to his hands, naked hooded male prisoners with their
hands behind their heads, grinning male and female US soldiers behind a pile of
live hooded prisoners, and a smoking female soldier pointing at the genitals of
a naked, hooded male prisioner. 4861. jexster - 4/30/2004 11:46:06 AM
Arab Outraged At Pictures of Bush Torture Chambers
4862. jexster - 4/30/2004 12:01:56 PM
The
Evil Empire Crumbles 4863. jexster - 4/30/2004 12:03:38 PM
4864. jexster - 4/30/2004 12:14:18 PM
Emperor Bush played "patty cake" with the Resistance... 4865. jexster - 4/30/2004 12:18:57 PM
This is the end... 4866. robertjayb - 4/30/2004 12:32:30 PM
Who's counting? Not Wolfie, the bastard... 4867. jexster - 4/30/2004 1:08:55 PM
We heard about 4-5 months ago that by now no one would care that Bush
lied...We heard that there would be no violence when Saddam was captured...we
heard that there would be democracy in Iraq... 4868. jexster - 4/30/2004 1:15:39 PM
Perhaps it is a sign of the more general desperation. But watch how the
president now routinely accuses critics of his Iraq policy of being racists.
4869. jexster - 4/30/2004 2:00:25 PM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A suicide car bomber killed two U.S. Marines near their
base outside the besieged Iraqi city of Falluja on Friday, Brigadier General
Mark Kimmitt told a news conference in Baghdad. 4870. jexster - 4/30/2004 2:22:59 PM
4871. sakonige - 4/30/2004 2:34:51 PM
Now that the US troops are being pulled back, I'll bet the Americans will
bomb the whole bunch, Baathists, resistance fighters, civilians alike.
4872. sakonige - 4/30/2004 3:18:57 PM
Najaf seems to have fallen off the English language news radar in the last
few days. Najaf has the potential to become a much more explosive flashpoint
than Fallujah. It makes me wonder what the Bush Administration is secretly
preparing to screw up there.
4873. jexster - 4/30/2004 3:26:12 PM
I wonder at the unseemly haste with which Bush is "re-baathifying" Iraq.
4874. jexster - 4/30/2004 3:41:06 PM
From Krugman's above 4875. Magoseph - 4/30/2004 5:28:55 PM
4876. jexster - 5/1/2004 12:57:31 AM
Fallujah
Erupts..Saddam's General Receives Hero's Welcome as Imperial Marines Beat
Retreat 4877. OhioSTOPAS - 5/1/2004 7:49:51 AM
Last night Sinclair Broadcasting followed through on its threat not to show
the tribute to our fallen soldiers by "Nightline". (See Message # 4840.)
Instead, it broadcast a self-produced news documentary putting "Nightline" in
the crosshairs and purporting to examine whether its tribute show was news or a
liberal political statement. 4878. jexster - 5/1/2004 11:15:37 AM
I have never witnessed such a perversion of reality and common sense as is
coin of the realm in BushWorld
4879. jexster - 5/1/2004 11:15:47 AM
4880. jexster - 5/1/2004 11:16:52 AM
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - In Washington, shocking images of foreign troops abusing
Iraqi prisoners are an exception to the rule of American good intentions. In
Baghdad, they look like signs of what Iraq (news - web sites)'s dignity means to
its occupiers. 4881. jexster - 5/1/2004 11:18:53 AM
"I can't describe what I felt when I saw those scenes; they revolted me and
proved the barbarity of the occupation forces," said Mohammad Salman, a traffic
policeman. 4882. jexster - 5/1/2004 11:22:14 AM
4883. jexster - 5/1/2004 11:24:56 AM
Congressional
Testimony: Wolfowitz Does Not Know How Many US Soldiers He has Sent to their
Deaths 4884. judithathome - 5/1/2004 11:28:25 AM
A U.S. Army report obtained by The New Yorker magazine said Iraqi
detainees were subjected to "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at
the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad 4885. jexster - 5/1/2004 11:28:41 AM
Guest
Commentary: Ray Close on 'The Real Meaning of Fallujah' 4886. jexster - 5/1/2004 11:37:12 AM
"Another conclusion one may draw from events of the past few days is that the
general US strategy for dealing with Iraq, which has been based on predictions
and recommendations of the neocon cabal in Washington (especially Paul Wolfowitz
and Richard Perle) is becoming
exposed at last as the disaster that informed analysts always knew it would
become"
4887. robertjayb - 5/1/2004 12:34:46 PM
Riverbend: Those
Pictures... 4888. jexster - 5/1/2004 12:42:37 PM
Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the pan-Arabist London newspaper, al-Quds
al-Arabi, said, 4889. robertjayb - 5/1/2004 2:43:24 PM
Torture at Abu Ghraib...Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker
4890. jexster - 5/1/2004 6:25:42 PM
4891. jexster - 5/1/2004 6:26:10 PM
4892. jexster - 5/1/2004 8:50:28 PM
Warnings
of abuse in Iraq's prisons that were ignored 4893. jexster - 5/1/2004 8:53:57 PM
In the images published in the Mirror newspaper yesterday, a hooded Iraqi,
allegedly a thief, is sitting in the back of what looks like a canvas-sided
vehicle, stripped to his underpants and a T-shirt with an Iraqi flag on it. In
one photograph a soldier urinates on his head. In another a kick is aimed at his
head, while in a third an assault rifle is jabbed at his genitals. 4894. wonkers2 - 5/1/2004 9:14:01 PM
Bush and his henchmen have been violating the U.S. Constitution and other
rules in the holding and treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo and in the U.S.
4895. jexster - 5/1/2004 9:15:54 PM
And the idiot is still chirping that he's the Great Liberator...my ass
4896. wonkers2 - 5/1/2004 9:17:59 PM
the U.S. Constitution and/or other rules.
4897. jexster - 5/1/2004 9:21:13 PM
The view that Bush is already defeated in his War on Iraq is a view now held
by Amb Joe Wilson, William Lind, Regis Debray, Ray Close, and 4898. wonkers2 - 5/1/2004 9:31:59 PM
I wonder who leaked the torture pictures? Anybody heard?
4899. wonkers2 - 5/1/2004 9:32:20 PM
He or she deserves a medal.
4900. Absensia - 5/1/2004 10:25:42 PM
What I want to know is who is the army spokesman who said the soldiers
involved had not been trained in depth in the rules of the Geneva Conventions.
Was that supposed to be an excuse? A defense? IMO, it only makes things worse,
if that's possible. 4901. Absensia - 5/1/2004 10:37:24 PM
I do not understand why only 6 are being court marshalled. For any
credibility, and that's doubtful, then their superiors all the way up to the
COs, etc should be facing court marshall. I don't believe this was just a "dirty
little secret" known only by 6 people.
4902. jexster - 5/2/2004 1:36:49 AM
4903. jexster - 5/2/2004 11:37:25 AM
GWB
War Crimes: Torture Encouraged
4904. alistairConnor - 5/2/2004 5:08:19 PM
I find it difficult to get exercised about the "torture of prisoners" thing.
4905. robertjayb - 5/2/2004 5:25:19 PM
Billmon's Whiskey Bar
blog claims a scoop regarding the prison torture.
4906. wonkers2 - 5/2/2004 6:21:19 PM
Maybe I'm naive, but I don't agree that torture of prisoners is an inevitable
consequence of war.
4907. arkymalarky - 5/2/2004 6:34:37 PM
I don't either, and if it is it shouldn't be, and we should be outraged about
it and deal with it openly and severely. It's bothered me more than anything
we've done there. It flies in the face of everything Bush said we were going
into Iraq for. I disagreed with it, but as long as our behavior seemed elevated
to the level of the stated mission there was some room to credibly argue the
Iraqi people would be better off in the long run. This sends the opposite
message to allies and enemies alike.
4908. arkymalarky - 5/2/2004 6:39:13 PM
BTW, I'm not talking about what happens in wartime, but what was evidently a
known and approved--if not encouraged--action, at least in that prison. Superior
heads should roll over it.
4909. JayAckroyd - 5/2/2004 7:37:36 PM
The apparent coverup is a big problem. The administration made a mistake in
not expressing its disgust until after the material went public. Aggressively
and publicly prosecuting the offenders at all levels when this became known
would have inoculated them from their failures to properly provide trained
professionals to manage the prison. And, perhaps, inoculate them from
intelligence officers going over the line. 4910. wonkers2 - 5/2/2004 8:01:10 PM
I remember hearing talk about letting the Pakistanis or other allies
interrogate our prisoners with the implication that they would use methods that
we couldn't use. But I don't remember anybody advocating that we use physical
torture in interrogations.
4911. wonkers2 - 5/2/2004 8:02:02 PM
Also, doesn't it seem strange that we would use contractors to interrogate
our prisoners?
4912. wonkers2 - 5/2/2004 8:02:27 PM
We seem to be using a lot of contractors in Iraq.
4913. Absensia - 5/2/2004 8:11:20 PM
"If a terrorist had a nuclear bomb about to go off, you'd agree that would
justify torture, right?" 4914. Absensia - 5/2/2004 8:14:26 PM
Wonks, they never were very cleat what we were contracting those contractors
to do. 4915. JayAckroyd - 5/2/2004 9:28:07 PM
It appears that these tortures weren't just some frolic and caprice by the
guards but were under the direction or at least encouragement of the
"intelligent community," and according tio the NYT article cited aboce, with
knowledge by commanders and militarty "higher ups." 4916. JayAckroyd - 5/2/2004 9:28:58 PM
The best piece I've seen on this is in the upcoming New Yorker, by Seymour
Hersh. He supports your argument.
4917. Absensia - 5/2/2004 9:36:52 PM
Right. I was also relying on the NYT article cited in #4903 supra
written by PHILIP SHENON, that in part says: 4918. Absensia - 5/2/2004 9:41:25 PM
The article indicates the torture was happening as early as October 2003 (or
at least was known by then, and..."General Karpinski was formally admonished in
January and "quietly suspended" from commanding the 800th Military Police
Brigade, the New Yorker article reports." 4919. wonkers2 - 5/3/2004 9:10:47 AM
The
abuse of prisoners has much deeper roots than in the Abu Ghraib prison. Try John
Ashcroft. As I said when he was appointed, Ashcroft is, hands-down, Bush's
worst appointment. He may well be the worst Attorney General in U.S. history.
4920. jexster - 5/3/2004 9:11:32 AM
Gamble
on Sharon Goes Awry for Bush 4921. jexster - 5/3/2004 10:08:57 AM
Iraqi General Refuses to Turn Over Insurgents 4922. JayAckroyd - 5/3/2004 10:14:17 AM
It appears that it also may be happening here: 4923. wonkers2 - 5/3/2004 10:20:49 AM
What do you expect from Ashcroft and a former DKE social chairman? This is
just one step removed from Bush's frat pledge hazing.
4924. JayAckroyd - 5/3/2004 10:37:35 AM
4925. jexster - 5/3/2004 10:38:06 AM
Hatred and fear of Arabs/Muslims fueled the war on Iraq and Bush deliberately
stoked America's broad, undifferentiated desire for revenge in order to sell it.
4926. JayAckroyd - 5/3/2004 11:04:11 AM
Actually, the force structure is much to blame here. There was nobody, not in
the army, not in the marines, not in the reserves, not in the guard, prepared to
operate a prison. 4927. JayAckroyd - 5/3/2004 11:35:43 AM
The AP is reporting
that Magoseph's earlier report of 3000 or so "jihadists" in fajullah was
substantially overstated. The source for these estimates, of course, was the
administration, trying to characterize the insurgency as limited to foreign
influences, and not an Iraqi uprising against occupation. An excerpt:
4928. Absensia - 5/3/2004 12:10:44 PM
Well, the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners has been remedied. CNN is reporting
that the 6 have been reprimanded! I assume (hope) more action will be taken.
Watching the spin the government and one defense attorney is putting on this is
amazing in its gall and brazenness. The defense attorney actually said that the
actions "weren't actually torture."
4929. alistairConnor - 5/3/2004 12:13:52 PM
Maybe I'm naive, but I don't agree that torture of prisoners is an
inevitable consequence of war. 4930. PelleNilsson - 5/3/2004 12:15:15 PM
You are fucked.
4931. alistairConnor - 5/3/2004 12:20:17 PM
Hey Pelle, you were in favour of this war... 4932. PelleNilsson - 5/3/2004 12:24:02 PM
I know I was in favour of the war, no doubt about it. But I seriously
underestimated the American capacity for fucking things up beyond belief.
4933. alistairConnor - 5/3/2004 12:32:20 PM
Never underestimate Americans... 4934. JayAckroyd - 5/3/2004 12:35:33 PM
The problem here seems to be more self-deception. If they had had a realistic
plan in place, and we were looking at a reasonably representative caretaker
government in the next month or so, and an election in six months, the official
reasons wouldn't have mattered. 4935. Absensia - 5/3/2004 12:44:33 PM
Yeah, well in fairy tales, once the dragon is slayed, the people all live
happily ever after.
4936. PelleNilsson - 5/3/2004 1:08:04 PM
I think we are seeing the vulgar side of American exclusivism where all other
peoples are seen as more or less inferior. Muslims, in particular Arab Muslims,
in particular Iraqis rank very low on the scale. Dare I say sub-humans? Their
treatment would suggest so.
4937. Absensia - 5/3/2004 1:25:13 PM
It is a crushing indictment against the United States indeed. Pelle,
yesterday, I spoke with our friend, 4938. jayackroyd - 5/3/2004 1:32:36 PM
Yes, that is the category we've just lowered ourselves to, emerging nations
prison policies. Undoing this is impossible, but they better start acting a lot
more pissed off. (It's bad enough that they aren't actually pissed off.)
4939. jayackroyd - 5/3/2004 1:46:02 PM
Permit me one brief rant: 4940. jexster - 5/3/2004 1:58:13 PM
11-Step
Program for Iraq Failure 4941. jexster - 5/3/2004 2:03:38 PM
Pretty soon we'll be hearing little voices saying that many of these guys
deserved this kind of treatment, that men naked, with bags over their heads
represented a threat to the republic. 4942. robertjayb - 5/3/2004 8:55:19 PM
CBS held story, the candyasses.... 4943. robertjayb - 5/3/2004 9:32:11 PM
Since January? Hadn't read the report? Don't know nothing...freakin'
clothes rack is all he is and Rumsfeld's gopher 4944. jexster - 5/3/2004 10:05:23 PM
Rashid Khalidi Director of the Middle East Institute at Columbia appeared on
Lou Dobbs to promote a book.. 4945. jexster - 5/3/2004 10:26:53 PM
Jay.. 4946. wonkers2 - 5/3/2004 10:31:40 PM
Rather should go. He's a big media whore like nearly all the rest. Ted Koppel
is an exception. Jim Lehrer and his motley crew.
4947. robertjayb - 5/4/2004 12:11:57 AM
Battlefield of Dreams...(Paul Krugman) 4948. jexster - 5/4/2004 3:00:53 AM
4949. jexster - 5/4/2004 3:03:13 AM
Less has been said about how dreams of making Iraq a showpiece for free
trade, supply-side tax policy and privatization — dreams that were equally
oblivious to the country's realities — undermined the chances for a successful
transition to democracy. 4950. jexster - 5/4/2004 3:13:46 AM
With all due respect to those who supported the war, all of these problems
were frequently discussed among policy experts of considerable and independent
stature well before the war. 4951. jexster - 5/4/2004 3:25:54 AM
The Bushies called him the "George Washington of Iraq". They shipped his
militia in from Europe on USAF transports. 4952. jexster - 5/4/2004 6:58:04 AM
Inspired by the 57 Brit ambassadors who told Blair he was poodle to an
imbecile 4953. jexster - 5/4/2004 7:07:01 AM
Josh Marshall on the FT piece in Salon above... 4954. jexster - 5/4/2004 7:34:18 AM
Animal House the Prequel - John Belushi played Perle 4955. thoughtful - 5/4/2004 8:53:44 AM
This a.m. reading an article in the nyer about a reporter travelling in iraq
and what he's experienced. One thing is obvious. There are thousands and
thousands of iraqi men and boys with absolutely nothing to do but protest, wave
weapons and engage in violent demonstrations, not to mention plot against the us
military. 4956. alistairConnor - 5/4/2004 9:13:29 AM
There's a name for what you're advocating, T. 4957. thoughtful - 5/4/2004 9:30:57 AM
Perhaps, but just as a temporary measure as was done during the depression
when the states also had extremely high unemployment rates and an economy badly
in need of boosting. Further, the infrastructure needs are huge, and as most
economists will tell you, due to externalities, infrastructure will be
underinvested without some kind of govt intervention anyway. 4958. alistairConnor - 5/4/2004 9:46:13 AM
That's not socialism, that's "to the victor belong the spoils".
4959. jexster - 5/4/2004 10:58:44 AM
Turki:
Bremer "Didn't Care" about Torture Evidence: 4960. jexster - 5/4/2004 11:00:44 AM
Thoughtful...that's what Bush hoped he could do ...but Fairy Tale ..
4961. jexster - 5/4/2004 11:01:54 AM
I feel so sorry for em I want to have them all shot
4962. jexster - 5/4/2004 11:02:44 AM
Non non AC..that's "privatization"
4963. jexster - 5/4/2004 11:08:01 AM
WASHINGTON - Sixty former U.S. diplomats have signed a letter to President
Bush (news - web sites) contending that his "unabashed support" for Israeli
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) is costing the United States
"credibility, prestige and friends."
4964. OhioSTOPAS - 5/4/2004 12:35:56 PM
Josh Marshall (www.talkingpointsmemo.com) nails the neocons:
4965. jexster - 5/4/2004 3:02:25 PM
4966. jexster - 5/4/2004 3:02:43 PM
4967. jexster - 5/4/2004 3:04:59 PM
A War for Us, Fought by Them 4968. jexster - 5/4/2004 3:21:09 PM
Shaken,
but apparently not stirred. 4969. jexster - 5/4/2004 7:10:12 PM
4970. jexster - 5/4/2004 9:14:10 PM
US diplomats' letter to Bush 4971. robertjayb - 5/4/2004 9:42:57 PM
Here ya
go...Read General Taguba's Iraq torture report before Rumsfeld...(via
MSNBC) 4972. jexster - 5/4/2004 10:18:06 PM
CNN Reports... 4973. Magoseph - 5/5/2004 7:20:04 AM
Tillman's youngest brother, Rich, wore a rumpled white T-shirt, no jacket,
no tie, no collar, and immediately swore into the microphone. He hadn't written
anything, he said, and with the starkest honesty, he asked mourners to hold
their spiritual bromides. 4974. Magoseph - 5/5/2004 7:29:53 AM
Journal of an American soldier 4975. PelleNilsson - 5/5/2004 8:29:08 AM
President
Bush will give interviews to two Arab television networks Wednesday about
reports of U.S. military personnel abusing Iraqi prisoners, the White House
said. 4976. thoughtful - 5/5/2004 8:41:57 AM
Is he going to start saying that other stuff as he did up in canada about
some people not believing brown skinned people are capable of democracy, but he
doesn't agree???? 4977. Magoseph - 5/5/2004 9:04:05 AM
When he makes some particularly outrageous statement, in my opinion he is
talking to his base. 4978. alistairConnor - 5/5/2004 9:33:02 AM
... or talking THROUGH his base?
4979. alistairConnor - 5/5/2004 11:26:25 AM
From reading that "Journal of an American soldier" : 4980. jexster - 5/5/2004 11:41:16 AM
U.S.
Retreats From Bush Remarks on Sharon Plan 4981. jexster - 5/5/2004 11:43:04 AM
That's exactly on target Mago...that's exactly what the problem has ALWAYS
been with Iraq policy...Its not for Iraqis its for the Beastly Base...
4982. jexster - 5/5/2004 11:44:31 AM
This is not good. I'm getting increasingly angry and bitter and cynical.
This is not good. 4983. jexster - 5/5/2004 11:52:19 AM
Among the corrosive lies a nation at war tells itself is that the glory --
the lofty goals announced beforehand, the victories, the liberation of the
oppressed -- belongs to the country as a whole; but the failure -- the
accidents, the uncounted civilian dead, the crimes and atrocities -- is always
exceptional. Noble goals flow naturally from a noble people; the occasional act
of barbarity is always the work of individuals, unaccountable, confusing and
indigestible to the national conscience. 4984. jexster - 5/5/2004 11:52:52 AM
Guest Commentary: Ray Close on 'The Real Meaning of Fallujah'
4985. jexster - 5/5/2004 11:58:27 AM
Television images Winning the Media War 4986. jexster - 5/5/2004 11:58:45 AM
4987. alistairConnor - 5/5/2004 12:02:04 PM
"U.S. Retreats From Bush Remarks on Sharon Plan 4988. Absensia - 5/5/2004 12:09:21 PM
Bush is speaking now to ME journalists. He is in his "sincere, shocked and
appalled mode." Americans and the world are appalled. The US will handle the
scandal will be handled differently that it would be handled under Saddam. The
situation will be rectified. 4989. PelleNilsson - 5/5/2004 1:16:14 PM
he carefully covered his arse by asking for guidelines, so as he points
out, legally speaking the responsibility lies with the higher-ups who left them
to their own devices 4990. jexster - 5/5/2004 2:10:49 PM
That's what Kimmett said and he is right but it does go to mitigation and the
reason it is being said and widely said has to do with mitigation and with
leverage over the powers that be wantin to CYA
4991. jexster - 5/5/2004 2:17:18 PM
But this is the more fundamental, no this is THE fundamental issue...
4992. jexster - 5/5/2004 2:20:34 PM
This belief, that the photographs are distortions, despite their
authenticity, is indistinguishable from propaganda. Tyrants censor; democracies
self-censor. Tyrants concoct propaganda in ministries of information;
democracies produce it through habits of thought so ingrained that a basic lie
of war -- only the good is our doing -- becomes self-propagating.
4993. jexster - 5/5/2004 2:38:44 PM
These photos show us what we may become, as occupation continues, anger
and resentment grows and costs spiral. There's nothing surprising in this. These
pictures are pictures of colonial behavior, the demeaning of occupied people,
the insult to local tradition, the humiliation of the vanquished. They are
unexceptional. In different forms, they could be pictures of the Dutch
brutalizing the Indonesians; the French brutalizing the Algerians; the Belgians
brutalizing the people of the Congo. 4994. jexster - 5/5/2004 3:01:58 PM
Mahdi Army Kills 3 US Troops in Diwaniyah 4995. jexster - 5/5/2004 3:03:55 PM
Died for lying, incompetent colonialists... 4996. thoughtful - 5/5/2004 3:07:39 PM
can you believe rush was saying these folks were just letting off some
steam?!?!?!?! 4997. vonKreedon - 5/5/2004 3:59:25 PM
One of things that struck me when I watched Nightline's The Fallen
last Friday was the large proportion of sergeants among the dead. Sergeants
should be the most experienced soldiers in a platoon, yet, by my estimation,
over a third of the dead were sergeants. There are typically ~5 sergeants
compared to ~30 enlisted men in each rifle platoon. I wonder why that is, that
the most experienced soldiers are being killed at a disproportionate rate.
4998. vonKreedon - 5/5/2004 4:01:25 PM
(maybe that's all wjc had to say re lewinsky...he was just stressed and
needed to let off some...er....steam) 4999. vonKreedon - 5/5/2004 4:01:53 PM
Well, since I'm soo close ...
5000. vonKreedon - 5/5/2004 4:02:14 PM
...I'll take the millenial. Conflict in the Middle East 4
Talking Points Memo
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:03:58 -0500
To: "jex2"
From: Talking Points Memo
Subject: Re: CIA Games??
not just considered it, but know it
At 12:06 PM 2/6/2004, you
wrote
But what amazes me most is the polite, reverential "Mr.
Marshall".
No sweet-cakes, kissy-boi, "I luv U!!!" ardent-ness from you,
it's quite disappointing.
This 1998 article reveals some of Silberman's adventures in delaying
the release of the Khomeini hostages, sabotaging the Iran-Contra investigation
and cutting major slack for felons John Poindexter and Oliver North, and pushing
aside Robert Fiske in favor of the rancid Kenneth Starr in the so-called
Whitewater investigation.
If we had a free press someone would jump
all over this turkey.
I am nothing if
not superficial.
Use jexster's link above....
WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush's choice to co-chair his
commission to investigate intelligence failures prior to the Iraq War is a
long-time, right wing political activist closely tied to the neo-conservative
network that led the pro-war propaganda campaign.
Federal appeals court
Judge Laurence Silberman, who will share the chairmanship with former Virginia
Democratic Senator Charles Robb, also has some history in covert operations.
In 1980, when he served as part of former Republican president Ronald
Reagan's senior campaign staff, he played a key role in setting up secret
contacts between the Reagan-Bush campaign and the Islamic government in Tehran,
in what became known as the ''October Surprise'' controversy.
Blair knew better than to go to war on the word of a spy
Holy Shiite! They sent Bush running like a dog with his tail
between his legs..they were DISUNIFIED???!?!?!
On the British Broadcasting Corp.'s "Breakfast with Frost"
program, Blix said it was unclear what was meant by the claim in a September
2002 intelligence dossier that Iraq could deploy some weapons of mass
destruction on 45 minutes' notice.
"The intention was to dramatize
it just as the vendors of some merchandise are trying to increase and exaggerate
the importance of what they have," he said. "From politicians, from our leaders
in the Western world, I think we expect more than that. A bit more sincerity."
Britain helped America to conduct a secret and potentially
illegal spying operation at the United Nations in the run-up to the Iraq war,
The Observer can reveal.
The operation, which targeted at least one
permanent member of the UN Security Council, was almost certainly in breach of
the Vienna conventions on diplomatic relations, which strictly outlaw espionage
at the UN missions in New York
Britain
spied on UN allies over war vote
Security Council members
'illegally targeted' by GCHQ after plea from US security agency
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Insurgents attacked U.S. Army convoys in three
areas, killing one soldier and wounding three others Sunday, witnesses and the
U.S. command said.
Leave it to George W. Bush to appoint the the dumbest
Democrat in America... as co-chair of his WMD commission, former Senator
Chuck Robb of Virginia. Robb, one of the founders of the DLC, has had more
"intelligence failures" in his political life than the CIA has had in the past
20 years.(Dan Conley's Journal)
Standin Tall Before the
Lofty Mast!
Blix says war leaders acted like salesmen
February 9 Guardian UK: Hans Blix accuses Tony Blair and George Bush
of behaving like insincere salesmen who "exaggerated" intelligence in an attempt
to win support for war.
Some of us were smart enough not to buy
that "cream puff".
TIKRIT, Iraq (AP) -- Gunmen, including a major in the new Iraqi
police force, attacked a group of American soldiers, sparking a gunbattle in
which the officer was killed and two other attackers wounded, the U.S. military
said Sunday.
The soldiers were observing a house belonging to a person
suspected in rocket-propelled grenade attacks on American forces in the village
of Qadisiyah, 30 miles south of Tikrit, when the gunmen opened fire Saturday
evening, the military said in a statement.
The Americans fired back
and threw a hand grenade at the attackers, killing one and wounding two. Two
more gunmen were captured. The slain attacker was identified as an active Iraqi
police major.
That's
nice...guess they watched Christianne Amanpour on 60 Minutes last night
I think that incident
highlighted what a hellish place that must be...the soldiers must be nervous
beyond belief.
.
Militias and Terrorism;
Terrorism and Militias: Colonial OverLords Growing Resigned to
Disintegration
Its now
available...
Harpers Magazine, January 2004
THE INDISPENSABLE
NATION
From "Americans, If You Only Knew," by Regis Debray,
published in the September 5 Le Figaro. Translated from the French by Benjamin
Storey and Donovan Hohn.
Judging by the results, as they say in the military, it appears that
Paris had a clearer view of things in Baghdad than Washington did. In the New
York Times of February 23, 2003, I allowed myself to predict-merely by reading
the newspapers in the light of history books-that the American war was
going to "provoke chaos instead of order, and hatred instead of gratitude,"
while giving "a formidable second chance to the partisans of Bin Laden." That
was before the "victory," and at the time many a distressed reader
dismissed these somber prognostications as "ideological."
An
out-of-touch arch-Gaullist such as myself, however, is not bound by the
euphemisms of transatlantic modesty. "When one tells it like it is," De Gaulle
once remarked, "it's a scandal. If one says that England is an island, no one
blinks. If one says that NATO has an American commander, everyone is shocked:"
To state the raw facts bluntly is a task, always thankless but never useless,
reserved for those not in charge.
The Americans seem to have gotten
themselves into an intractable mess in Iraq. They must now choose between a
historical debacle if they hang on and a temporary setback if they let go.
"We cannot leave Iraq before it is stabilized," declared a former CIA
officer.
But to maintain a prolonged foreign occupation of Iraq is to
destabilize it only further. Once the invader departs, there will no doubt be a
civil war, which will accelerate the dismemberment of the nation, giving rise to
a fundamentalist regime, which will make at least some people miss the era of
Saddam.
Its going to take two terms to clean up
his mess
He frets about the Kurds and that his Baghdad
Blogger reputation causes people to clam up when he comes around. Says his dad,
who has been in meetings with Ayatollah Sistani, finds Sistani to be a
reasonable person.
...he came back quite impressed saying things like
“you wouldn’t find a more secular Imam” which is of course an oxymoron, but it
could have been the fact that it was late and he had nothing to eat the whole
day. My mom sat with her hands crossed giving him the [ha! So what did you think
you’ll meet? A raving lunatic?] look – just I case you are new to this, my
father is a non-praying Sunni, my mother is a praying Shia (a Sistani shia) and
I think the Quran is a very boring novel.
Salam Pax's
book...(Japanese edition) 
There you have it: The regime will be
pluralistic, because Bush believes it, because nice men came to the Oval Office
and told him so.
Not to mention YHWH herself.
The man is
nuts
wrt 1, he suspects that this is intelligence, perhaps right, perhaps
not, leaked to enhance the administration's political position. I don't actually
buy that, but it is an interesting argument.
Peter LikudBoy Beinhart...
I sent Marshall a nasty quoting
Beinhart at length, a piece wherein he urged the democrats to advance some
invasion of Pakistan scheme essentially to state the US public's appetite for
war and revenge. He also made the point that Bush had done so to good effect in
Iraq...
Having spearheaded the TNR warmongering efforts, I figgered,
he deserved a copy..
The next time I tried to access TNR's site, it
didn't recognize my subscription...I wrote em and it took a week for them to
reply and correct "the problem"
Not that I am paranoid or anything
o never
mind
2 US Soldiers Killed in Blast; 2 Ramadi Sheikhs Assassinated
AP
reports that a man wearing an explosives belt showed up outside the compound of
brothers Majid and Amer Ali Suleiman in Ramadi and blew himself up. Three Iraqi
guards outside the compound were killed. The brothers were accused of
cooperating with the Americans.
US soldiers in Sinjar near Mosul were
moving a stockpile of mortar shells and grenades to a demolition point so they
could be destroyed when there was an explosion. Two US troops were killed, and
five injured.
posted by Juan Cole at 2/10/2004 09:22:07 AM
February 10: All week Siham Hattab, a lecturer in English literature at
the Mustansiriya University in the capital, had been planning to stand in the
latest council elections, but at the last minute she had nagging doubts.
"These are
two evils and we have to choose one of them," she said.
"It is very
difficult that the Iraqis have had to suffer all these years and now they have
to suffer more. People really feel upset because they don't see any change in
their lives."
Bush said Sunday that they loved us!
Musta
been YHWH whispering in his ear...or maybe the Other One
WASHINGTON - The public version of the U.S. intelligence community's
key prewar assessment of Iraq's illicit arms programs was stripped of dissenting
opinions, warnings of insufficient information, and doubts about Saddam
Hussein's intentions, a review of the document and its once-classified version
shows.
As a result, the public was given a far more definitive
assessment of Iraq's plans and capabilities than President Bush and other U.S.
decision-makers received from their intelligence agencies.
"Iraq
is now a contaminated environment and Rumsfeld and his people want out," said
one senior administration official. "They can't wait for July 1 when the CPA
(Bremer's Coalition Provisional Authority) turns into the U.S. Embassy and the
whole mess they have made becomes Colin Powell's."
WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a sign of how Republicans may try to quell
criticism of prewar intelligence in Iraq, the head of the House Intelligence
Committee tried Wednesday to direct blame to the Clinton administration.
Rep. Porter J. Goss, R-Fla., said he heard a 1998 speech in which
then-President Clinton warned that something must be done about Iraqi leader
Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction.
Two U.S. Soldiers Killed, One Wounded in Baghdad
By REUTERS
Published: February 12, 2004
AGHDAD, Feb 12 - A roadside bomb
killed two U.S. soldiers in Baghdad, the U.S. military said on Thursday, as
Iraqis began burying dozens of victims of two attacks against locals working
with the U.S.-led occupation.
The U.S. Army's 1st Armored Division said
the bomb exploded at 9:30 p.m. (1830 GMT) on Wednesday as the soldiers were
passing by in their vehicles.
The casualties were evacuated to a combat
support hospital for treatment where two soldiers later died, it said in a
statement.
The attack on the U.S. patrol came hours after a suicide car
bomb killed 47 people at an army recruitment centre in the capital. A similar
attack on a police station south of Baghdad killed 53 people on Tuesday.
Only a few of the bodies from Wednesday's blast had been taken for
burial. Doctors said some corpses were difficult to identify due to mutilation
or bad burns.
Maybe
if Israel puts little canisters of pig juice everywhere in unobtrusive public
locations, the members of the religion of piglike ignorance will cease suicide
bombings. This approach might even have some utility in Iraq:)
under fire in Iraq...MSNBC
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Gen. John
Abizaid, commander of all U.S. forces in the Middle East, escaped injury in an
apparent ambush Thursday at a local headquarters of a U.S.-sponsored Iraqi
security force.
...............................................
No
U.S. soldiers and no one in Abizaid’s party were injured. Residents said one
Iraqi was grazed in the leg by a bullet and slightly injured.
Abizaid
was accompanied by Maj. Gen. Charles Swannack, commander of the 82nd Airborne
Division. After the gun battle, Abizaid and Swannack canceled plans to walk into
the city and instead returned to a U.S. military base near here.
...............................................
Insurgents have
apparently accelerated attacks against U.S. forces and their Iraqi allies in an
effort to wreck the planned June 30 handover.
Two suicide bombings
against Iraqi targets on Tuesday and Wednesday killed around 100 people. Hours
after the second suicide attack, two American soldiers were killed and another
wounded by a roadside bomb in Baghdad, the U.S. military said Thursday.
NyT: UN Supports Sistani's Demand for Democratic Elections
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Feb. 12 — An envoy for the United Nations said he
supported a powerful Shiite cleric's call for elections to install a new
sovereign government after having met with the cleric this morning.
But
the envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, did not say whether he thought direct elections
could be held by May 30, when the Bush administration wants to put a
transitional national assembly in place to appoint the new government.
.
Frustrated by the cleric's demands, the White House asked Mr. Brahimi
and the United Nations last month to intervene, since Ayatollah Sistani said he
would seriously weigh the opinion of the United Nations.
After meeting
with the cleric in the holy Shiite city of Najaf, 90 miles south of Baghdad, Mr.
Brahimi told a group of reporters that Ayatollah Sistani "insists on holding the
elections and we are with him on this 100 percent because elections are the best
means to enable any people to set up a state that serves their interest."
Mr. Brahimi added that "we also agree with his excellency that the
elections must be well-prepared and well-arranged and must be done under the
best possible circumstances to get the results that Ayatollah Sistani wants and
the people of Iraq and the U.N. want."
The Bush caucus plan, not
even colorobly democratic to begin with, has taken on a decidedly gray hue, much
like a corpse. Of course, Iraq could have had elections by the may 30 deadline
but for Bush. The Democracy Lie...we can close that case of crap too.
Now we've the worst of both worlds - a wholly illegitimate puppet, an
increasingly unwelcome invader, and the whole mess run by a disengaged Emperor
of Armadillos & Morons
Better idea...send the pig ignorant Emperor
packing back to that fake ranch in Crawford.
Plenty of room there to
taise hogs...only fire ants & armadillos there now
That's actually a good question, the answer to which I
believe has something to do with all the early calls for an 'immediate' election
several months ago. The US probably felt compelled to put out a solid looking
timetable to keep the international debate from getting too raucous.
The
truth is that not everything should be up potentially for grabs in a simple
election or referendum when what is being considered is a nation state with
separate minorities having discrete interests. That is a quick path to a tyranny
of the majority. To develop an infrastructure that can withstand this tendency
and protect the rights of minorities is not necessarily a simple task.
It can't be to still the calls for an
immediate election, because Sistani has preached patience from the beginning,
and it is his voice who matters. "We have waited six hundred years. A few months
doesn't matter."
Bloodbath??? Protect the polling place fer
crissakes..Its not that hard to do! Any number of nations would send troops if
we needed them....But we don't. Protecting polling places open one day is a
cinch with the forces now there.
Bogus concern for the Iraqis who seem
to want elections! If the Shiites would risk their blood for freedom, I go with
that.
hire on some Arab soldiers to temp duty even...shit...that's
bullshit...they don't cancel elections in Israel...Northern Ireland..
Though most felt that election year gamesmanship was the
operative reason, I don't discount the declared, legitmate assumption.
Ethnic tensions are increasing as time passes. The Sunnis and the Kurds
will be no less hostile hostile to free elections later than they are now
probably more. May 30 is unrealistic at this point but anytime after August
surely because the longer we postpone even nominal sovereignty the worse the
situation will get
Election 2004
IGC/CPA falling apart...the date
was set at meeting with Bremmer ostensibly prompted by reports from the CIA and
the CPA that the IGC was incompetent, illegitimate etc.. a crisis of puppetry
set this all in motion in the first place...
They also could have opted
for elections to a Constituent Assembly and keep the IGC in place but beefed up
for sovereignty
Well too late for that as well...
Election 2004
IGC/CPA falling apart...the date
was set at meeting with Bremmer ostensibly prompted by reports from the CIA and
the CPA that the IGC was incompetent, illegitimate etc.. a crisis of puppetry
set this all in motion in the first place...
They also could have opted
for elections to a Constituent Assembly and keep the IGC in place but beefed up
for sovereignty
Well too late for that as well...
The problem is that we destroyed, wiped out, obliterated the
national government, replaced it with a colonial regime of poor quality,
uncertain mission, no plan and an occupying infidel army in a country where we
are Co-Evil with Saddam Hussein to a large majority of the public we would
democratize...add the social unrest inivitable with the ethnic and sectarian
situation ...and nothing fits the ideal model...provisional and local
governments need a stable and legitimate national authority even an
authoritarian one..
The Democracy Project's message - start slowly,
don't rush constitutions, don't try to engineer an Iraq in Bush's image...I got
that ...very clear..very specific...its how to provide the stability over years
in Iraq that they don't tell ya much about...
Summary
The
Bush administration is pushing for elections in Iraq sometime next year. This
extremely accelerated timetable is dangerous. Early elections in postconflict
situations can produce unstable results and favor radical groups over
still-emergent moderate forces.
Because the administration has made
elections a requisite for Iraqi sovereignty and faces growing pressure to
transfer sovereignty, delaying elections is not an option.
The
solution is to limit the current constitution writing to an interim document
that provides the framework for the election of a constituent assembly and an
interim government of national unity. This would produce an elected Iraqi
government to which sovereignty can be transferred and create a framework for
the longer-term process of political consensus building necessary to create
permanent democratic institutions.
This was essentially the French
position.
Shit can the CPA/IGC mess ASAP, internationalize, loya
jira-ise, freely elect a consituent assembly (hopefully with better effect than
Louis XVI's)...lower US profile ASAP
You are wrong there.
Jexster. Iraq is a big country. It is not an easy thing to do.
Its
not that hard to do! Any number of nations would send troops if we needed
them....
Nobody will send troops until the UN puts its stamp of good
housekeeping on it. And even if the UN would give the go-ahead, say by the end
of the month, there would be a logistic problem. You don't ship in troops like
they were charter tourists.
Additionally, elections would need to be
nation-wide. What is the attitude of the Kurds to an election that would give
the Muslims, specifically the Shia, an automatic victory?
Let us see
some critical thinking and analysis, jexster, rather than your usual kneejerk
posts.
And that's a great
idea...commission a UN polling place protection force if necessary...
Anyway, Sistani is now willing to wait up to 10 months with an extended
occupation...
This could mean a delay in the June 30 date or
finding another method of choosing a provisional government, aside from the U.S.
plan for a caucus system which diplomats said was virtually dead.
Annan ``understands there is a consensus emerging'' for
direct elections during the talks his senior adviser Lakhdar Brahimi was having
with a spectrum of Iraqi leaders in Baghdad, U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard
said.
CAUCUSES
The U.S. plan calls for a series of caucuses to
select a legislature and then an interim government before June 30. After that,
the goal is to write a constitution and hold elections by the end of 2005 for a
permanent government.
``Everyone expects elections in 2005,'' Eckhard
said.
``The question is what can be done before June 30 and if it can't
be elections what other way can you find to establish a legitimate government,''
Eckhard said.
The choices are narrowing. The original U.S. plan agreed
to on Nov. 15 calls for 18 regional caucuses to select a national assembly that
would then pick a leadership and cabinet.
But diplomats say U.N.
officials as well as American and British envoys in Baghdad believe the caucus
system is too unpopular and will have to be scrapped.
``The caucuses are
out the window,'' said a senior envoy.
Any delay in the June 30 date
would carry risks for President Bush, who is being criticized for going to war
to eliminate a threat from Iraq's biological and chemical weapons that have
still not been found.
3 major metropolitan
areas in contrast to Iraq with only 1...
Say to be generous, 10,000
precincts...1 day...not all would have serious security problems...
Combine police, militia, Coalition troops, plus that UN security
force...
WASHINGTON
(Reuters) - The Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday decided to expand its
investigation into prewar intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction to
determine whether statements made by U.S. officials had been supported by the
underlying information.
Democrats had been pushing for a
broader scope to the inquiry to determine whether the Bush administration
exaggerated the intelligence to make its case for war, but Republicans had
resisted the demand.
After much debate, the committee behind closed
doors adopted a resolution that said the investigation would go beyond looking
at the accuracy of the intelligence on Iraq to also review public statements by
U.S. officials between the 1991 Gulf War and the start of last year's U.S.-led
invasion to check if they were substantiated by intelligence.
I haven't been blogging for
several reasons. The main reason is that since the fourth day of Eid of we've
been coping with a family crisis.
................................................
A telling
paragraph:
We panicked. The whole house broke down. L. fell to the
floor crying and shouting that they'll kill him- she just knew they'd kill him
like they were killing others. We tried to calm her down and finally decided to
give her a couple of valiums to ease the stress. We sat debating on what to do-
go to the police? No way. In some areas, the police were actually working with
abductors for a certain amount of money and there was nothing they were willing
to do anyway.
But the United Nations (news - web sites)'
special envoy to Iraq said major changes will be needed in the U.S. formula for
creating the next Iraqi government. Opposition to the plan put forward by the
U.S.-led coalition has increased among members of Iraq's Governing Council, many
of whom don't like the U.S. proposal for choosing a provisional legislature in
regional caucuses.
The envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, also warned Iraqis to
be wary of the risks of civil war as they compete for power.
A
spokesman for Brahimi said al-Sistani's demand for nationwide balloting would
probably be too difficult to pull off by July in strife-ridden Iraq.
"The time between now and June is very short and that makes it
unlikely that you can put mechanisms in place," U.N. spokesman Ahmad Fawzi told
The Associated Press. "The elections don't have to happen before then."
Consensus was growing on the Governing Council to scrap the U.S. plan
and find an alternative, several members said Friday.
Brahimi, a former
Algerian foreign minister, warned Iraqis not to let their demands for their own
interests push the country into civil war.
Although all factions say
they realize their country's problems, "I am a little bit disturbed and a little
bit uneasy because there are very serious dangers," Brahimi said.
"Civil wars do not happen because a person makes a decision, today
I'm going to start a civil war," he said. They erupt "because people are
reckless, people are selfish, because people think more of themselves than they
do of their country."
With Iraq hurtling toward civil
war, the Pentagon is trying to pass the
buck.
At a recent high-level meeting, Donald Rumsfeld looked over at
Colin Powell and said, "Jerry (Ambassador Paul Bremer, the top U.S. civilian in
Iraq) works for you, right?" Powell apparently looked thunder-struck. A senior
administration official told Knight Ridder, "Iraq is now a contaminated
environment and Rumsfeld and his people .. can't wait for July 1 when the CPA
(Bremer's Coalition Provisional Authority) turns into the U.S. Embassy and the
whole mess they have made becomes Colin Powell's."
ANOTHER MASS GRAVE FOUND!!!
10,000 Iraqi Civilians Dead
The war and the subsequent
occupation have now resulted
in the deaths of a staggering 10,000 Iraqi civilians. The group of academics who
run Iraq Body Count.org base their estimate on media reports since both the
coalition forces and the Iraqi Governing Council forbid counting of civilian
casualties. More importantly, the website makes clear just how disproportionate
the U.S. response to 9/11 has been:
Options for Iraq Trouble Envoy
BAGHDAD — A special United Nations (news - web sites) envoy left
Iraq (news - web sites) on Friday after signaling that swift, direct elections
sought by the nation's Shiite Muslim majority were impractical and highly
unlikely.
But the U.N. troubleshooter, Lakhdar Brahimi, also
questioned the U.S. proposal to hold regional caucuses for a transitional
national assembly before June 30, the date by which the U.S.-led coalition has
promised to hand over sovereignty to a new Iraqi government.
The
U.S. plan "needs at the very least to be improved considerably," said Brahimi, a
former Algerian foreign minister who arrived in Baghdad a week ago with a team
of U.N. election experts. Asked how the U.S. plan could be improved, Brahimi
said, "I don't know."
With neither the U.S. nor the Shiite proposal
likely to win U.N. endorsement, it seems increasingly clear that the parties
will need to choose another plan to bridge the gap. Many Iraqis had been
counting on the U.N. to find a compromise to break the deadlock, but Brahimi
gave no indication that it would.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan
(news - web sites) has made it clear that although the world body plans to
become more involved in Iraq as soon as possible, staffers will not return until
the security situation markedly improves.
Brahimi echoed that
sentiment in his Baghdad news conference, saying that even if the U.N.
recommended a transition plan, Annan would "demand that some important security
measures must be in place for the U.N. to be able to come back.
FALLUJA, Iraq, Feb. 14 — (NYTimes) - Guerrillas shouting "God is
great" staged a brazen assault on the main police station here on Saturday,
blasting their way inside, killing at least 15 police officers and freeing
dozens of prisoners.
Four of the attackers were killed and several Iraqi
civilians as well, bringing the number of dead to 25. At least 40 people were
wounded. Most unusual, the Americans said documents on the four dead attackers
indicated that one was Lebanese and that two were Iranians.
The attack
came at the end of extraordinarily violent week in Iraq, when two suicide
bombings killed more than 100 people.
As Iraq slides toward civil war, thougtful strategic planners inside
and outside the Pentagon are beginning to focus on getting the hell out ASAP and
trying to contain the mess that Bush made of Iraq.
However,
sending U.S. troops back into Iraq may be politically impossible in a few years,
said Betts, of the Institute of War and Peace Studies.
"After American
casualties have topped a thousand dead and thousands more maimed, as they may
before we withdraw ... the real chances that an American president will send
forces back into the maelstrom seem close to zero," Betts said.
So
much for Bush's fringe ideologies, democratic revolutions, and other bizarre
adventures of the marignally sane
...those who would call the tune, must
pay the Piper
Do you know what yesterday
marked? It marked the 13th anniversary of the Amiriyah Shelter massacre-
February 13, 1991.
...............................................
Iraqis don't go to shelters for safety reasons so much as for social
reasons. It's a great place to be during a bombing. There's water, electricity
and a feeling of serenity and safety that is provided...
.................................................
The bombs fell
hard and fast at around 4 a.m. The first smart bomb went through the
ventilation, through the first floor of the shelter- leaving a gaping hole- and
to the bottom 'basement' of the shelter where there were water tanks and propane
tanks for heating water and food. The second missile came immediately after and
finished off what the first missile missed. The doors of the advanced shelter
immediately shut automatically- locking over 400 women and children inside.
Mr.
Chalabi's séances swayed the political set, the intelligence set and the
journalistic set. In an effect Senator Bob Graham dubs "incestuous
amplification," the bogus stories spewed by Iraqi exiles and defectors
ricocheted through an echo chamber of government and media, making it sound as
if multiple, reliable sources were corroborating the same story. Rather, one
self-interested source was replicating like computer spam.
Violence raged
on, with two Iraqis killed and three others wounded Sunday when insurgents
mistakenly hit a minibus with a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) in Baghdad after
trying to attack a US convoy, a hospital doctor said.
The killings
rocked the northwest Shiite Muslim district of Shaawla, the source said, while
another US military patrol came under small arms fire in the capital's western
al-Adel suburb, a US spokesman said.
The convoy was ambushed at 9:00
am (0600 GMT), the military said, adding that no US vehicles or soldiers had
been harmed.
But the ensuing exchange left the attackers' sports
utility vehicle in flames. The spokesman said it was not clear if the assailants
were hurt, but witnesses said bodies had been removed from the car.
Near the northern city of Kirkuk, US soldiers gunned down two men
who fired a rocket at Iraqi security forces in the village of Yaichi, police
said.
The
alternative proposals, drawn up by the Marjaiya, the top clerical body for the
country's majority Shiites, cannot be unveiled now "since we are awaiting an
answer from the United Nations," Sheikh Abdel Mahdi al-Karbalai told AFP in the
holy Shiite city of Karbala, south of Baghdad.
A source close to the
Marjaiya warned that the options could include a campaign, possibly violent,
against the US-led occupation, but it was not on the cards quite yet.
Taken to a local hospital after last week's
attack, the unidentified party was found only Saturday by a patrol of U.S.
paratroopers, the military spokesman said on a day when two soldiers were also
killed in separate roadside bomb attacks.
With the U.S. death toll
still rising beyond 500 since the invasion 11 months ago and a presidential
election looming in November, President Bush (news - web sites) is sticking to a
target of June 30 for handing charge of the country back to Iraqis.
The U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council met Monday to discuss how
that would happen now that the possibility of holding elections before June have
been all but ruled out.
KARBALA, Iraq - The top U.S. administrator in Iraq
(news - web sites) suggested Monday he would block any interim constitution that
would make Islam the chief source of law, as some members of the Iraqi Governing
Council have sought.
In the coming months, according to a report in the Washington Post last
week, the US will seek support from the G8, Nato, the European Union, the World
Trade Organisation - and probably anyone else who is prepared to listen - in
order to bring the project to fruition.
The big question, though, is
whether Washington's dream of spawning democracy in the region is realistic or,
indeed, actually has much to do with democracy.
Before the invasion of
Iraq, neo-conservatives in the US predicted that the overthrow of Saddam Hussein
would spark regime change throughout the Middle East. So far, there's no sign of
that happening and subsequent evidence that the war was launched under false
pretences has left the neo-cons discredited.
One view of the grand
democracy project, therefore, is that it's a change of tack by the neo-cons - a
non-military way of pursuing their goals for regime change. On the other hand,
it might be the opposite: a face-saving way for the Bush administration to
extricate itself from the grip of neo-con fantasies.
"Seth died
for President Bush's personal vendetta," she said. "Bush put us where we should
never have been. We're not even in a declared war."
Ms. Niederer says
the growing national controversy over the failure to find any weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq proves that "we have a very big problem in this country. If
the intelligence on which this war was based is as inefficient as it now appears
to have been, there is something is seriously wrong here."
Ms. Niederer
and other members of Lt. Dvorin's family also are upset that he may have been
trying to diffuse an unexploded bomb when he was killed. He had no training in
defusing bombs, they said.
"We're getting mixed stories from the Army,
to say the least," Ms. Niederer said sardonically. "You won't get anything from
them. They'll just tell you it's all under investigation. One officer I spoke to
told me Seth was handling the bomb, attempting to deactivate it, when it went
off, killing him. It took off a piece of his skull. Another officer told me that
there is no way, absolutely no way, he was touching the bomb."
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Halliburton Co. said on Monday it would defer
billing for an additional $140 million in meals for U.S. forces in Iraq and
Kuwait until a discrepancy is reconciled between the number of meals ordered and
those actually served.
The Houston, Texas-based oil services company
said it was holding off billing until an agreement was reached on subcontractor
services for meal planning, food purchase and meal preparation for troops.
Halliburton is the biggest contractor for the U.S. military in Iraq with
more than $8 billion in deals covering everything from doing laundry, building
bases and providing meals to helping rebuild the oil industry.
Nobel Laureate, economist Joseph Stiglitz, sagely warns against Bush
administration plans for economic "shock therapy" (rapid and radical
liberalization and privatization) in Iraq. He points out that successful
transition to democracy has often been actively hindrered by such an approach.
Proponents of shock therabpy in the Coalition Provisional Authority point to
Poland, but one semi-success isn't actually all that encouraging.
It
seems to me that anyway the time is passing when the "Washington consensus"
crowd will be in a position to impose economic policy on Iraq. In about 4 months
there will be some sort of indigenous government and the CPA will be gone, and
most Iraqis are frankly socialists.
Emperor Moron I's Iraq Policy A Shambles
Iraqi Governing Council Withdraws Support for Bush Caucus Sham - Democratic
Elections Likely Near the End of 2004
BAGHDAD, Feb. 16 --
Most members of Iraq (news - web sites)'s U.S.-appointed Governing Council no
longer support the Bush administration's plan to choose an interim government
through caucuses and instead want the council to assume sovereignty until
elections can be held, several members have said.
Bush Bungling in Baghad Continues
Bremer
Pledges to Block Islamic Law Juan Cole
Paul Bremer appointed
Muhsin Abdul Hamid, the leader of the Iraqi Islamic Party (i.e. the Muslim
Brotherhood) to serve on the Interim Governing Council. One could argue about
whether this appointment was wise, but it is ironic that Bremer is now having to
overrule his own appointee. Abdul Hamid is February’s president of the Interim
Governing Council at a time when it is drafting Iraq’s Fundamental Law, which
will serve as an interim constitution and may well end up the basis for the
permanent one. Abdul Hamid wants shari`ah or the medieval codification of
Islamic law to be “the principal” source of Iraqi law, rather than, as in the
current draft, “a basic source.” Bremer has indicated that he would veto the
change in language. But what he doesn’t say is that his veto power expires on
July 1.
February 18: Kurdish leaders in the northern
autonomous area are refusing to disband their military forces and are pushing
for a veto over any deployment of the Iraqi army in their region.
(AFP) - Two suicide bombers struck
at a Polish military base in central Iraq (news - web sites), killing at least
seven Iraqis and wounding dozens, including at least 58 coalition troops.
Two explosives-packed trucks sped toward the Polish logistics base
outside the city of Hilla at 7:15 am (0415 GMT) and came under a hail of
automatic weapons fire from Mongolian soldiers.
The first truck
burst into flames 200 metres (yards) from the cement barriers shielding the
base, called Camp Charlie, Iraqi and Polish officials said.
The
second driver bolted from his vehicle and was shot dead as the truck blew up,
the sources said.
The powerful blast flattened several homes and
sent glass and shrapnel flying.
"I was home when I heard two
explosions, one after the other," said Kassem Nahid, 25, whose head was
bandaged.
Jittery Polish troops were pushing people away from the
devastated site as Iraqis mourned their latest casualties in the war between the
Americans and guerrillas 11 months after Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s
regime collapsed.
Seven Iraqis were killed in the bombings,
including a 12-year-old girl, and 28 civilians were wounded, said Mohammed
al-Tai, director of Hilla's Al-Talimi hospital.
"We cannot leave Iraq before it is stabilized," declared
a former CIA officer. But to maintain a prolonged foreign occupation of Iraq is
to destabilize it only further. Once the invader departs, there will no doubt be
a civil war, which will accelerate the dismemberment of the nation, giving rise
to a fundamentalist regime, which will make at least some people miss the era of
Saddam.
On the other hand, if the occupation persists, one can foresee a
multifaceted terrorist escalation eating away at U.S. forces and
aggravating ethnic and religious divisions. The Americans will bring in
reinforcements, including Fijians and Norwegians. They'll talk of the final
fifteen minutes and of last gasps. A coup d'etat or uprising will be inspired in
Teheran (terrain more favorable to the West than Iraq is) but with irritating
repercussions in Najaf, which will be transformed into a base of retreat for
vengeful ayatollahs. The Americans will cling to Iraq as "useful" and ensconce
themselves inside supposedly unbreachable bastions. Then, as the death toll
mounts by the hundreds, the "bring the boys home" movement will spread like an
oil slick across the United States, and a new, Democratic administration will
make the prudent decision to stop the hemorrhaging when the vital interests of
the United States are not at stake. But how many lives will be ruined in the
meantime?
BAGHDAD
(Reuters) - A roadside bomb killed two U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi west of
Baghdad on Thursday in the latest of a series of guerrilla attacks that have
made February the bloodiest month in Iraq (news - web sites) since the war.
Stay the Course on that Road Map!!
Are we laughin yet?
Washington - (Newsday) -- U.S. authorities in Iraq have awarded more
than $400 million in contracts to a start-up company that has extensive family
and, according to court documents, business ties to Ahmed Chalabi, the Pentagon
favorite on the Iraqi Governing Council.
Why aren't you reaming out these people for quoting the
same chapter and verse President Bush was, you fucking partisan hack?
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is
our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam
rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to
seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction
program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way
from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks
that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological
weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
-
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass
destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton
National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after
consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to
take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on
suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's
refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to
President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and
others Oct. 9, 1998
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D,
CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building
weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline
Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt
that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate
that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to
pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems
and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop
longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others,
December 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is
a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored
the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction
and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam
Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted
Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left
Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some
stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on
a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen.
Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the
President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to
disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass
destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen.
John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that
Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will
likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should
remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in
development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV),
Oct 10, 2002
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years
since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has
worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile
delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort,
and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however,
that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to
wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear
weapons." -
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in
possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has,
and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and
storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8,
2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a
brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So
the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Too bad
Saddam NEVER had any weapons
Too bad that Hans Blix was allowed to do
his job or he would have DISCOVERED the Truth that a whole shitload of people
knew WITHOUT seeing the intelligcnce reports that Bush lied about.
Too
bad
Bush lied. People died.....the Buck Stops with George W. Bush.
Bush Just Lied Again
President
Bush keeps saying that everyone thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction
before the Iraq war, implying that if he was wrong, he was in good company.
But Deutsche Welle reports of UN weapons inspector Hans Blix in
February and March of 2003: 'Blix recalled that the inspectors visited nearly 70
sites in Iraq and never found anything substantial that might have justified the
war. He admitted that many things had remained unaccounted for, but said more
inspections on the ground could have helped answer important questions. "We said
that you cannot put an equation mark between 'unaccounted for' and 'existing.'
And I said that in a statement to the Security Council quite squarely," Blix
explained. "The U.S. side did not really register this; they didn't care. They
believed more in the defectors in their own intelligence than they believed in
us."
This is not to mention that International Atomic Energy Agency
official Muhammad al-Baradei examined US claims that Iraq was importing aluminum
tubing to enrich uranium, and had tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger,
and pronounced both claims false, before the war was launched.
So, there
were lots of knowledgeable people who challenged the claims Bush was making. In
fact, they were much more knowledgeable on this matter than he was. Which wasn't
hard.
posted by Juan Cole at 2/19/2004 09:05:10 AM
You can't
peddle that re-written Sludge shit around here....We remember what
happened...Nobody buyin any longer
Three US troops had been killed by roadside bombs on Monday and
Tuesday.
posted by Juan Cole at 2/19/2004 09:05:30 AM
So you admit that Willy Jeff Xlowntoon was an incompetent
piece of shit, I see.
So
to refresh your recollection of what REALLY happened, I am sure that you will
read, mark and inwardly digest
Faith Broken,
Truth Distorted
Sen. Edward M. Kennedy
The Democratic
Senator outlines his reasons for believing that we are 'reaping the poison fruit
of our misguided and arrogant foreign policy.'
What part of that don't you understand?
But they didn't have to
say anything about Saddams WMD to convince me of that.
Keep your
filthy lies to yourself!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rank Score Title/Information
11
(0.87) Pelosi Statement on Iraq
Resolution House Democratic Whip Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) issued the following
statement this afternoon about the new Congressional resolution authorizing
military force against Iraq: "The decision of whether to send our brave men and
women in uniform to war is the
http://www.house.gov/pelosi/prIraqResolution100302.htm
12
(0.87) Pelosi Statement on Secretary Powell Speech at UN We all share the
goal of eliminating weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and in other countries
around the world. "The question is whether war now is the only way to rid Iraq
of these deadly weapons. "Any decision about going to war against Ira
http://www.house.gov/pelosi/prPowellStatement020503.html
13
(0.87) Pelosi Address to Council on Foreign Relations New York, N.Y. --
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi delivered the David A. Morse lecture at the
Council on Foreign Relations in New York City this morning. Secretary George
Shultz said of David Morse that he always stood "for a blend of power and prin
http://www.house.gov/pelosi/prrCouncilForeignRelations030703.htm
14
(0.87) Pelosi: 'Bush's Supplemental Request an $87 Billion Bailout
for Mistakes and Miscalculations of His Administration' Washington, D.C. --
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi spoke this afternoon on the House floor in
opposition to the President's $87 billion Supplemental budget request for Iraq
and in favor of the Democratic substitute offered by Congressman David Obey
http://www.house.gov/pelosi/press/releases/Oct03/BushSupplementalRequest101603.html
15
(0.87) Pelosi Statement on Passage of Iraq Supplemental
October 30, 2003 Washington, D.C. -- House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi
released the following statement opposing the Iraq Supplemental conference
report, which passed late tonight by a vote of 298 to 121. "This conference
report gives another $87
http://www.house.gov/pelosi/press/releases/Oct03/IraqSupplemental103003.html
UAV attacks on New York
Vast stockpiles of nerve agents
Massive underground facilities
Mobile facilities
Democratic revolutions
Operation Iraqi
Freedom
Al-Qaeda connections
Cases closed...
Central
Front on WOT
and now into "EVERYBODY thought Saddam and weapons and
Bush just had to go war"
CROCK OF SHIT
Like Tom DeLay Cockroach Spray....safe and effective
A COMING ATTRACTION...a trip to the archives
A
Walk Down A Memory Lane of Sludge, Slime and Shit
First Episode; TD Should
be Concerned
Bungling Butcher Drops Caucus Scam
Hasn't a Clue What to Do Next
If this is a "win-win for
Bush", I'd hate to see what a loss looks like.
Well hell, no wonder we went to war.
The article basically states that a
substantial sum of the money supporting Bush's presidential campaign is coming
from affluent Arab-Americans who support the war on Iraq. The fun part about the
article is that it goes on and on about "Arab"-Americans- not Muslim-Americans
or even Asian-Americans but specifies Arab-Americans giving you the impression
that the article is going to be about people who were originally from Iraq,
Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain,
Oman, Qatar, Tunisia, Morocco, Palestine, Lebanon… you know- an Arab country
where the national language is Arabic and the people are generally known as
Arabs.
The article is dumb, but apparently the author thinks that the
readers are even dumber. Of the 5 prominent "Arabs" the author gives as examples
in the article (supporters of Bush), two are Iranian and the third is a
Pakistani! Now this is highly amusing to an Arab because Pakistanis aren't Arabs
and while Iran is our neighbor, Iranians are, generally speaking, not Arabs and
I'm sure you can confirm that with Iranian bloggers…
As I have benn sayin ALL along..WATCH
THEM SHIITES GOMER
Veteran Middle East
reporter Nicholas Blanford writes in the Christian Science Monitor about
Grand Ayatollah Sistani and the implications of his movement for Iran. It is a
fine, subtly argued piece. I think that if Iraq is able to hold and sustain
regular parliamentary elections, with the Shiite clerics mainly concerning
themselves with social and moral issues from outside the government, as Grand
Ayatollah Ali Sistani envisages, it could help undermine Khomeinism in Iran. (I
also make this argument in this week's The Nation, but it isn't online).
The Iranian elections are being held Friday, Feb. 20, but there is
widespread apathy and a liberal boycott. The Khomeinists will do well, but will
lack legitimacy, and it may be a pyrrhic victory for them. I think President
Khatami's political career is finished. He has no credibility left with anyone.
I'd say it is safe to predict a fair amount of turmoil in Iran sometime in the
next few years. - Professor Cole
If the article coming out on
Saturday in Der Spiegel, the German news magazine, is accurate, it seems to me
to portend significant difficulties ahead for the US. Sistani clearly is
insisting on a new United Nations Security Council Resolution that would set out
the procedures and timetable for free and fair direct elections in Iraq, if
these cannot be held before the transfer of sovereignty on July 1 to an
indigenous government. The US has resisted having a new resolution passed.
Sistani is insisting (contrary to what his spokesman told Nick Blanford, above)
that Islamic canon law or Shariah be the basis of the Iraqi legal code. And,
Sistani is threatening that if he does not get what he wants on a short
timeframe, he is prepared to launch a Shiite uprising against the Americans and
their Coalition. The article says that his followers already have the placards
for the demonstrations printed up and stored for use. The US so far has resisted
both UNSC involvement in the process and adoption of religious law. If the Bush
administration defies Sistani on these issues, there could be a lot of trouble
looming ahead in Iraq.
This is my translation of the teaser for the interview, which is
already online:
Der Spiegel EXCLUSIVE
Shiite leader Sistani
insists on general elections
WASHINGTON, Feb. 20 — The Central Intelligence Agency has
acknowledged that it did not provide the United Nations with information about
21 of the 105 sites in Iraq singled out by American intelligence before the war
as the most highly suspected of housing illicit weapons.
The
acknowledgment, in a Jan. 20 letter to Senator Carl Levin, Democrat of Michigan,
contradicts public statements before the war by top Bush administration
officials.
Both George J. Tenet, the director of central intelligence,
and Condoleezza Rice, the national security adviser, said the United States had
briefed United Nations inspectors on all of the sites identified as "high value
and moderate value" in the weapons hunt.
These people need some
prison time...
If you want to understand why the Bush administration invaded Iraq,
read Freud’s Interpretation of Dreams, not the National Security Strategy of the
United States. Only the twisted logic of dreams can explain why the United
States thinks that the aggressive pursuit of contradictory goals—promoting
democracy, affirming U.S. hegemony, and ensuring stable energy supplies—will
produce success.
To illustrate the weird logic of
dreams, Sigmund Freud used to evoke a story about a borrowed kettle: When a
friend accuses you of returning a borrowed kettle broken, your reply is, first,
that you never borrowed the kettle; second, that you returned it unbroken; and
third, that the kettle was already broken when you borrowed it. Such an
enumeration of inconsistent arguments, of course, confirms precisely what it
endeavors to deny: that you, in fact, did borrow and break the kettle.
A
similar string of inconsistencies characterized the Bush administration's public
justifications for the U.S. attack on Iraq in early 2003.
Each of the three levels works on its own and
deserves to be taken seriously; none of them, including the spread of democracy,
should be dismissed as a simple manipulation and lie. Each has its own
contradictions and consequences, for good and ill. But taken together, they
are dangerously inconsistent and incompatible and all but predestine the U.S.
effort in Iraq to failure.
You're in luck.
As our latest addition to the Talking
Points Memo Document Collection, we've just posted the Department of Defense Talking Points on Iraqi WMD
distributed last Thursday.
-- Josh Marshall
BAGHDAD
(Reuters) - Four U.S. soldiers were wounded and their Iraqi translator was
killed on Saturday when gunmen ambushed their convoy south of Baghdad, the U.S.
army said.
"Four U.S. soldiers were wounded and their Iraqi translator
was killed in a small arms fire ambush 22 km (14 miles) south of Iskandariya
(near Baghdad). Two civilian type SUVs were destroyed in the attack," a U.S.
military spokeswoman said
WASHINGTON, Feb. 20 — The
Central Intelligence Agency has acknowledged that it did not provide the United
Nations with information about 21 of the 105 sites in Iraq singled out by
American intelligence before the war as the most highly suspected of housing
illicit weapons.
Oh lordy, trouble so hard
Oh lordy, trouble
so hard,
Don’t nobody know my troubles but god
Don’t nobody know my
troubles but god
Went down the hill, the other day
My soul got happy
and stayed all day
Oh lordy...
Went in the room, didn’t stay
long,
Looked on the bed and brother was dead
Oh lordy...
Up in flames....the line
drawn, the curse cast
what is likely to emerge as a result of the
U.S. occupation in Iraq is precisely a fundamentalist Muslim anti-American
movement, directly linked to such movements in other Arab countries or countries
with a Muslim presence. It is as if, in a contemporary display of the “cunning
of reason,” some invisible hand of destiny repeatedly ensures that the U.S.
intervention only makes more likely the outcomes the United States sought most
to avoid. Slavoj Zizek
to maintain a prolonged foreign occupation of Iraq is to
destabilize it only further. Once the invader departs, there will no doubt be a
civil war, which will accelerate the dismemberment of the nation, giving rise to
a fundamentalist regime, which will make at least some people miss the era of
Saddam. Regis Debray
WASHINGTON, Feb. 23 — American investigators were given the first
name and telephone number of one of the Sept. 11 hijackers two and a half years
before the attacks on New York and Washington, but the United States appears to
have failed to pursue the lead aggressively, American and German officials say.
The information — the earliest known signal that the United States
received about any of the hijackers — has now become an important element of an
independent commission's investigation into the events of Sept. 11, 2001,
officials said Monday. It is considered particularly significant because it may
have represented a missed opportunity for American officials to penetrate the
Qaeda terror cell in Germany that was at the heart of the plot. And it came
roughly 16 months before the hijacker showed up at flight schools in the United
States.
Israel’s Sonol gasoline company, along with its foreign partner
Morgantown International, have won a tender valued at $70-80 million to supply
fuel to US troops in Iraq. Sonol is expected to supply the US forces with some
25 million liters of fuel each month.
The tender was issued by the
US-based KDR Company, a subsidiary of Halliburton, who has been entrusted with
the majority of contracts for the US troops in Iraq. Among Sonol’s competitors
was Delek, another Israeli company. Until now, the US forces have received most
of their fuel from Kuwait. However, following Halliburton’s admission that it
overcharged the US military by passing on the Kuwaitis' inflated price the US
Army decided to approach other suppliers, among them Israel (Fucking
geniuses, these people.)
Sonol is one of Israel's three largest oil
product marketing firms with a network of around 205 branded service
stations.
Important note to those of you who
are going to email me: The last few days, I have received at least 3 emails
saying, "I read your blog and don't agree with what you say but we have a famous
saying in America- I don't agree with what you say but I'll die for your right
to say it." Just a note- it's not your famous American saying, it is French and
it is Voltaire's famous saying:"I do not agree with a word you say, but I will
fight to the death for your right to say it."
Is she correct? We
didn't study such things at Body and Fender school.
Military.com---The top secret international commando
group which tracked down Saddam Hussein is being transferred from Iraq to
Afghanistan to spearhead the hunt for Osama bin Laden.
Task Force 121, a
1400-strong unit drawn from the U.S. army's Delta Force, Rangers and Green
Berets, U.S. navy Seals, and attached elements of British and Australian SAS and
Canadian special forces, will be used as the cutting edge of an offensive aimed
at netting or killing top al Qaeda fugitives.
The unit, which may be
renamed before deploying on the Afghan side of the frontier with Pakistan's
lawless tribal lands, is moving in because of improving intelligence on the
movements of the terror network's high command.
The 11,000 U.S. troops
in Afghanistan and a 12,000-man Pakistani army division are preparing for a
"hammer and anvil" offensive from both sides of the border to trap terrorist
leaders and fighters.
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq (news -
web sites)'s most prominent Shiite Muslim cleric called Thursday for elections
by the end of the year, signaling he would accept an interim government but
insisting on a strict timeframe after the United States hands over power.
Washington believes elections cannot be held before the end of year
and probably not before early 2005. However, the Shiite clergy, fearful that
balloting might be delayed indefinitely, has insisted on elections as soon as
possible.
In a statement issued by his office in Najaf, Grand
Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani demanded "clear guarantees, such as a
Security Council resolution," to fix a date so "there is no more postponement
and prolonging."
So, setting aside why we're in Iraq,
how we go there, whether we should have gone in in the first place, where are we
now? Where do you see our position right now?
WILSON: Well, I think
we're fucked
"King Abdullah of Jordan, the King of Morocco, I mean,
there's a series of places—Qatar, Oman—I mean, places that are
developing—Bahrain—they're all developing the habits of free
societies."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004
Whitehall Unified in Doubt About War
Damn wouldn't it
have been great if we and our elected representatives knew this BEFORE the
Bungling Butcher of Baghdad went off to play war.
Probably they will expand the IGC somehow but even that is
problematic..it seems just as likely that they will hand sovereignty over to the
IGC as consituted which poses yet another problem and answers another of your
questions...
They wanted to turn soveriegnty over as na Election Year
gimmick and because the current IGC was illegitimate, corrupt, ineffectual...
The Bungling Butcher of Baghdad is likely to have just as much of a
visible mess on his hands as ever
Clair Short... 
Some maybe impressed by Bush's "might",,,
Not me...I
ain't scared 
(AP) -- As of Friday, Feb. 27, 547
U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in
Iraq, according to the Department of Defense. Of those, 378 died as a result of
hostile action and 169 died of non-hostile causes, the department said.
The British military has reported 58 deaths; Italy, 17; Spain, eight;
Bulgaria, five; Thailand, two; Denmark, Ukraine and Poland have reported one
each.
Since May 1, when President Bush declared that major combat
operations in Iraq had ended, 409 U.S. soldiers have died - 263 as a result of
hostile action and 146 of non-hostile causes, according to the military.
Well Sherlock
Holmes, Sam Spade got nothing, child, on me.
Sergeant Friday, Charlie
Chan, and Boston Blackie.
No matter where he's hiding, he's gonna hear me
Cause I'm gonna walk right down that street,
Like Bulldog Drummond
because I've been searching,
Oh Lord, searching, um child, searching every
which a-way.
Yeah. Yeah.
You know I'll bring him in some day.
Gonna find him.
Apologies to The Coasters.
Wire services quoted by
al-Jazeerah report that guerrillas wounded three US soldiers with
rocket-propelled grenade fire Thursday night near Tikrit.
On Friday
morning, guerrillas in Tikrit lightly wounded another two US troops in a bom
blast. A third soldier was seriously wounded in an attack on his convoy in
Khallis, northwest of Baghdad.
posted by Juan Cole at 2/28/2004
09:09:23 AM
WASHINGTON, Feb. 28
— (NYTimes) - President Bush has approved a plan to intensify the effort to
capture or kill Osama bin Laden, senior administration and military officials
say, as a combination of better intelligence, improving weather and a refocusing
of resources away from Iraq has reinvigorated the hunt along the border between
Pakistan and Afghanistan.
The plan will apply both new forces and new
tactics to the task, said senior officials in Washington and Afghanistan who
were interviewed in recent days. The group at the center of the effort is Task
Force 121, the covert commando team of Special Operations forces and Central
Intelligence Agency officers. The team was involved in Saddam Hussein's capture
and is gradually shifting its forces to Afghanistan to step up the search for
Mr. bin Laden and Mullah Muhammad Omar, the former Taliban leader.
An approaching election concentrates the mind wonderfully...No longer
forgotten is bin Laden...
Hey why did it take
him 2 1/2 years?
Answer: Let's Roll
Of course, it might be lies but then, it might not
be, too.
My computer keeps crashing so I can't go searching for the
story but it's gaining steam, from what I've read.
Army
chiefs feared Iraq war illegal just days before start
'These allegations go to the very
heart of the Government's case for war, and inevitably its credibility. I have
no doubt whatever that if Parliament had been told these things, the Government
would not have achieved its majority and been unable to go to war. Public
opinion, already deeply divided, would have swung overwhelmingly against the
Government Menzies Campbell, Liberal Democrat Foreign Affairs
spokesman
Its a mad dash for the exit without
quite knowing where the doors are.
"The Fundamental Law was
apparently drafted from notes of Paul Bremer by Salim Chalabi and others (nephew
of corrupt financier Ahmad Chalabi)--according to a Feb. 29 LA Times op-ed by
Brendan O'Leary.. Its final form was negotiated by the IGC, but there was much
dissension on the role of Islam, federalism, women's rights, etc. Why has this
dissension been overcome? Not because there is a genuine political compromise.
Because not reaching a deal on this temporary law would manifestly delay the
return of sovereignty to the Iraqis on June 30. No one on the IGC wants the
Coalition Provisional Authority to be in power a second longer than necessary.
So why should they risk a delay by making an obstinate stand on a law that will
anyway be revised a year from now?
What has happened is merely that the
big fights have been postponed for the constitutional convention next year"
Juan
Cole
Iraqis Agree on
Constitution, Islam Role
Considerable works remains to be done, of
course, but a charter has been agreed upon that establishes a bill of rights
guaranteeing freedom of assembly and speech and specifying due process, as well
as laying the groundwork for an executive branch, all very promising early signs
for the eventual implementation of a lasting government that guarantees
individual freedoms.
The
bad news began with Bush's lies ...and the end will not be pretty...
No
wonder the rats are scurrying for the exit
Maybe they have Bush
"roadmap"
No matter how well it goes, everybody knows you'll be
obsessively trashing the establishment of Iraq's new government and they
discount your posting accordingly. That's a given.
To paraphrase - The Law is the
leader, the bungling butcher of baghad is not the law
And come
June 30th, The Imperial Viceroy won't be in much of any position to dictate to
the people of Iraq...he'll be too busy trying to find a route out of town with
his GWB roadmap
All
you law and order Republicans know what you must now do.
Do it
Meanwhile back at the
Imperial Spin Factory we're supposed to cheer a constitution drafted by a
convicted embezzler, who openly flaunts the fact that he was largely
responsbible for swindling the American people into a phony war, a
"constitition" adopted by a council that even the Viceroy admits is illegitimate
and corrupt.
Yea right. Believe that I'll tell ya where the yellow cake
and sarin gas are stashed - for a fee of course
May the Farce Be With You
AFP Photo
As Shiites marked the solemn
holy day of Ashura, a series of blasts killed 85 people and wounded 240 in their
sacred city of Karbala, south of the capital, the judge investigating the
attacks, Ahmed al-Hillali, told AFP.
The Start of the Civil War Predicted by Many
to maintain a
prolonged foreign occupation of Iraq is to destabilize it only further. Once the
invader departs, there will no doubt be a civil war, which will accelerate the
dismemberment of the nation, giving rise to a fundamentalist regime, which will
make at least some people miss the era of Saddam. Regis Debray
UNITED
NATIONS — (USA Today) - A report from U.N. weapons inspectors to be released
today says they now believe there were no weapons of mass destruction of any
significance in Iraq after 1994, according to two U.N. diplomats who have seen
the document.
The historical review of inspections in Iraq is the first
outside study to confirm the recent conclusion by David Kay, the former U.S.
chief inspector, that Iraq had no banned weapons before last year's U.S-led
invasion. It also goes further than prewar U.N. reports, which said no weapons
had been found but noted that Iraq had not fully accounted for weapons it was
known to have had at the end of the Gulf War in 1991.
The report, to be
outlined to the U.N. Security Council as early as Friday, is based on
information gathered over more than seven years of U.N. inspections in Iraq
before the 2003 war, plus postwar findings discussed publicly by Kay.
Presumably the shiites are expected to lash out,
to strike back at someone. At who?
I don't understand the logic.
Line drawn curse cast...
Regis Debray - Roques!
From "Americans, If You Only Knew," by Regis Debray, published in
the September 5 Le Figaro.
Judging by the results, as they say in
the military, it appears that Paris had a clearer view of things in Baghdad than
Washington did. In the New York Times of February 23, 2003, I allowed myself to
predict-merely by reading the newspapers in the light of history books-that
the American war was going to "provoke chaos instead of order, and hatred
instead of gratitude," while giving "a formidable second chance to the partisans
of Bin Laden." That was before the "victory," and at the time many a distressed
reader dismissed these somber prognostications as "ideological." An
out-of-touch arch-Gaullist such as myself, however, is not bound by the
euphemisms of transatlantic modesty. "When one tells it like it is," De Gaulle
once remarked, "it's a scandal. If one says that England is an island, no one
blinks. If one says that NATO has an American commander, everyone is shocked:"
To state the raw facts bluntly is a task, always thankless but never useless,
reserved for those not in charge.
The Americans seem to have gotten
themselves into an intractable mess in Iraq. They must now choose between a
historical debacle if they hang on and a temporary setback if they let go.
Américains, si vous saviez
PAR REGIS DEBRAY *
Longueur : Long ( 1129 mots )
En honneur à la vérité, reconnaissons
que, nous, Européens, avons partie liée avec un mot mirobolant : «le droit
international». Pas d'usage de la force sans autorisation du Conseil de
sécurité...
The USG has become a
criminal enterprise
DEBRAY
DECOMCOPOSITION:
Occupation Exposes Sectarian Emnities
The Bombings at Kazimiyah and
Karbala
The day of Ashura' is the holiest in the calendar of
Shiite Islam, commemorating the brutal martyrdom of the Imam Husayn, the
grandson of the Prophet Muhammad. In many ways, the tradition of Shiite mourning
of this "passion" is similar to that witnessed in Mel Gibson's recent film. For
Shiites, Tuesday was analogous to Good Friday. And Karbala and Kazimiyah for
them are like Rome and Jerusalem. One can only imagine the psychological impact
of, God forbid, a huge truck bombing at the Vatican on Good Friday.
Veteran Middle East correspondent Nick Blanford has immediate reactions
from Iraqis in Karbala and elsewhere. The blame is being put on Abu Musab
al-Zarqawi and his al-Tawhid group. Forensic evidence from the 11 persons
captured in connection with the coordinated attacks may well settle the identity
of the group behind it fairly quickly. Given Zarqawi's plans for a Sunni-Shiite
civil war in Iraq, he has to be a prime suspect. But it should be remembered
that this strategy of destabilizing Iraq would be useful to all the guerrilla
forces, including Baath remnants and Iraqi Sunni radicals, and that it is far
too simplistic to blame all such violence in Iraq on outside forces and al-Qaeda
(Zarqawi isn't exactly al-Qaeda anyway).
Will have more to say, but am
spending the day talking to the press so don't have time to blog right now.
Will be on NPR All Things Considered, the Lehrer Newshour and BBC World Report
(radio) this evening.
posted by Juan Cole at 3/2/2004 03:32:43 PM
No matter how well it goes, everybody knows you'll be obsessively
trashing the establishment of Iraq's new government and they discount your
posting accordingly. That's a given
The British did become an occupying force, but did
not give in to Shia demands for a major role, but instead installed a royal
dynasty to rule Iraq.
Between the creation of the modern Iraqi state in
1921 and the overthrow of the monarchy by the army officer Abd Al-Karim Qasim in
1958, there were 23 governments, four of them headed by Shia prime
ministers.
I am a 24 year old soldier recently
returned from Iraq.
I was medivac'd because I shot myself in the foot
during a suicide attempt . I am writing in to make it clear to everyone the
complete lack of morale and proper psychological care available not only in Iraq
but in the Army. While deployed, I was command-referred to mental health where I
was seen for 5 minutes and told to go back to my unit. After I returned to my
unit, my weapon was taken and I was humiliated and made the subject of jokes.
My problems continued and in my 6th month of deployment, I put a 9mm to
my head and tried to kill myself. I couldn't do it and I ended up lowering the
weapon and firing into my foot….I asked for help dealing with everything many
times from the military to no avail.
When I returned home I went on
leave and checked myself into a civilian hospital where I was diagnosed as
bi-polar with post-traumatic stress syndrome. This diagnosis was upheld by 2
other civilian psychiatrists, but when I was evac'd back to a military hospital
i was told by the doctor there that neither of those things was wrong with me
and I had mild depression.
I am currently in the process of being
court-martialled for malingering and self-inflicted injury (which carries a
maximum penalty of 10 years in prison).
The purpose of this letter is to
let people know that medical services are not available like they should be to
our troops in Iraq, and that if this problem isn't taken care of and our leaders
are not trained to properly recognize the signs and symptoms of a psychological
break, there will be many more troops in my situation.
Tim
posted 27
feb 2004 - Bring the Home Now! March on March 20th
Scenes from a Nasty, Brutish & Long War appeared with Juan
Cole tonight on Newshour.
While this will not ignite a conflagration
thanks to the Grand Ayatollah's call for calm and his appeal to a nationalist
Islam, there is, on another level, already a civil war in Iraq which is
progressively worsening because of the occupation and the corruption involved in
Bush/Cheney's Bechtel/Halliburton contracting.
PS - Cole
launched on the undifferentiated Moronic propaganda that Wahabism is somehow
identical to "terrorism".....such palpable ignorance of Muslim culture and
politics of the region is one of Cole's pet peeves.
David Kay, once the most hawkish of the UN weapons inspectors,
was determined to prove Blix wrong... but now gamely admits he was mistaken.
He now believes the west's intelligence agencies got it wrong for two
reasons. First, they were manipulated by Ahmed Chalabi and other dissidents
whose central interest was ousting Saddam. Just mentioning the name of the Iraqi
National Congress leader makes Kay laugh. "Here's a guy who's so transparent.
Chalabi asked me in Iraq once: 'Why are you so concerned about WMD? No one cares
about WMD.'
"They manipulated us," Kay admits, "but we weren't smart
enough to detect it, and screen it out, and so the greater shame is on us."
The second factor, in Kay's opinion, was a fundamental cultural
misunderstanding. The CIA, MI5 and the other western agencies saw blatant
smuggling at a time when the regime could quite legally import basic civilian
goods, and came to the conclusion the contraband must be military. They failed
to understand that smuggling was more lucrative. "You had the Turks, the Syrians
and Jordanians - everyone got a cut, so it became in everyone's interest to do
it illegally," he says. Meanwhile in Iraq, scientists and officials were busy
thinking up as many missile projects as they could, as a means of extracting
funds from the regime.
Chalabi, the Father of the Colonial Constitution, has been thumbing his
nose at the suckers in the Cheney Regime since last May.
Well, I
mean, you know, half the people now feel that the war wasn't justified on the
grounds that it was argued for.
Okay.
Do you feel any
discomfort with that?
No. We are in Baghdad now.
BAGHDAD, March 3 -- Rifle-toting Shiite Muslim militiamen, some
in crisp uniforms and others in civilian attire, deployed in force Wednesday
around a bomb-scarred shrine in Baghdad, setting up dozens of checkpoints on
bustling streets devoid of U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police officers.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free
state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed
BAGHDAD, March 3 -- Rifle-toting Shiite Muslim
militiamen, some in crisp uniforms and others in civilian attire, deployed in
force Wednesday around a bomb-scarred shrine in Baghdad, setting up dozens of
checkpoints on bustling streets devoid of U.S. soldiers and Iraqi police
officers.
That's our Congress - a wee bit slow on
the uptake.
(WashPost)
The Bush administration's prewar assertion that Saddam Hussein had a
fleet of mobile labs that could produce bioweapons rested largely on information
from an Iraqi defector working with another government who was never interviewed
by U.S. intelligence officers, according to current and former senior
intelligence officials and congressional experts who have studied classified
documents.
In his presentation before the U.N. Security Council
on Feb. 5, 2003, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said "firsthand
descriptions" of the mobile bioweapons fleet had come from an Iraqi chemical
engineer who had defected and is "currently hiding in another country with the
certain knowledge that Saddam Hussein will kill him if he finds him."
So, were the bushies willfully gullible or willfully lying?
Well fuck them
The
Strange and the More Strange: Gay Chique - The Strange Emergence of Gay Culture
in SAUDI ARABIA
PARIS (AFP) - French President Jacques Chirac backed Egyptian
counterpart Hosni Mubarak (news - web sites) in his opposition to a US
initiative for political and economic reform in the Middle East, saying the plan
amounted to "interference".
The two held talks after Mubarak arrived in
Paris earlier Friday as part of a three-nation tour designed to warn key
European partners of the dangers of the "Greater Middle East" initiative.
"GWB is a geopoltical incompetent" I
Wallerstein
One would think that they'd already learned this but
..well they are morons so we must be patient, right Ace..
There it
was..the Holy Constitution of Iraq, prepared by a convicted embezzler and blest
by the Viceroy of a Bloody Liar..ready to be signed..right there on a beatiful
table, klieg lights shinin and cameras rollin
Iraqis
Scramble to Salvage Deal on Constitution>/b>
Welcome to
the Real World..
Turn out the lights Morons and don't let the door hit
you on the way out.
If you'd be so kind
It would be a mistake to view the
anti-Shiite violence in Iraq as the work of a small group of terrorists and
limited to Iraqi politics.
Anti-Shiism is embedded in the ideology of
Sunni militancy that has risen to prominence across the regionb in the last
decade. Wahhabi Sunnis, who dominate Saudi Arabia's relidious affairs and export
their philosophy to its neighborsk have led the charge, declaring Shiites
"infidels" and hence justifying their murder. (The legacy of Wahhabi violence
against Shiites dates back to at least 1801, when Wahhabi armies from the
Arabian Peninsula invaded southern Iraq and desecrated the holy shrine at
Karbala.)
These anti-Shiite beliefs have spread to South Asia and
Afghanistan, where the Taliban used them to justify massacres of Shiite
civilians
...The point is that the forces that are today killing Shiites
in Iraq have their roots all over the region. It is a ntework of Arabs and
non-Arabs, South asians and Middle Easterners, Wahhabis and non-Wahhabis. And if
these men succeed in starting a sectarian civil war, it will quickly spread
beyond Iraq's borders.
It is virtually unthinkable to many Sunnis that
one of the most important Arab countries--the seat of the Affasid Empire from
the 8th to the 13th centuries, which established Sunni supremacy and brutally
suppressed Shiites--would pass from Sunni to Shiite domination. In militant
Sunni circles, it is taken as proof of an American conspiracy against them and
against Islam as a whold. Thus Sunni militancy is not only inherently
anti-Shiite, but anti-American as well. More here
Why Blair/Bush were convinced by the intelligence in a "fight
against evil"
In this extract, Hans Blix casts light on the PM's crucial
role
Using the secure telephone line in Ambassador [Sir
Jeremy] Greenstock's office, I had a long conversation with Blair about his
initiative. The prime minister said that the Americans had been disappointed
with my February 14 report. It had undermined their faith in the UN process.
Well, yes, I thought, their faith that the UN process would lead to the
authorisation of the military route might have been undermined.
I said that I had asked Colin Powell about setting a
deadline of April 15 and that he had responded this was too late. I thought it
really too early.
Bush
praises "free" Iraqi debate; others warn it could spell disaster
William Schnieder: "In my lifetime, which is considerable, I have NEVER
seen Democrats this united"
Thank you Uniter Not a Divider
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- The snag over signing Iraq's interim
constitution shows how power is shifting here, with Washington's ability to sway
events diminishing as the June 30 deadline for the end of the U.S.-led
occupation nears.
.................................................
....the glitch in finalizing the constitution showed that despite
130,000 troops and billions of dollars in committed aid, Washington can no
longer control events in Iraq absolutely. Among those who balked at signing was
Ahmad Chalabi, a Pentagon favorite whose Iraqi National Congress has received
millions of dollars in U.S. support.
...............................................
Good old Ahmad, a
neocon favorite...It seems he will follow form and take the money (and power)
and run.
He fucked Bush six ways from
Sunday and then flipped him off!
What a mensch!
What a Moron!
These people are batshit
These
people are running our country
....Avrakotos thought [Oliver] North and Perle were
"cuckoos of the Far Right"...."What Russian in his right mind would defect to
those fuckers all armed to the teeth?" Avrakotos said in frustration. "To begin
with, anyone defecting to the Dushman would have to be a crook, a thief, or
someone who wanted to get cornholed every day, because nine out of ten prisoners
were dead within twenty-four hours and they were always turned into concubines
by the mujahideen. I felt so sorry for them I wanted to have them all shot."
The meeting went very badly indeed. Gust accused North and Perle of
being idiots....Avrakotos thought that would be the end of the...idea, but he
greatly underestimated the political power and determination of this group, who
went directly to Bill Casey.
....In spite of the angry complaints, Clair George and everyone else
on the seventh floor agreed with Avrakotos' position. He says that Director
Casey even privately told him, "I think your point is quite valid. What asshole
would want to defect to these animals?"
But the issue wouldn't go away.
Perle, [Walt] Raymond, and the others continued to insist that the Agency find
and send back to the United States the many Russian defectors they seemed to
believe...the mujahideen were harboring. They had visions of a great publicity
campaign once these men reached America.
....Avrakotos describes what
happened next with the kind of pleasure he feels only upon achieving revenge. It
had been almost impossible to locate two prisoners, much less two defectors. The
CIA found itself in the preposterous position of having to pony up $50,000 to
bribe the Afghans to deliver two live ones. "These two guys were basket cases,"
says Avrakotos. "One had been fucked so many times he didn't know what was going
on. The other was an alcoholic."
....At that point, Avrakotos says, he
went to Perle to announce the good news that the Agency had twelve more willing
to come over. "I turned the tables on them and demanded they take them all. And
they didn't want to....In all I think we brought three or four more over. One
guy ended up robbing a 7-Eleven in Vienna, Virgina."
Anyone seen TD lately?
How bout Ace?
AlD where are you broadcasting from now?
Unfuckin-believable
Al-Sistani appears to be running the
show, along with Bremer. I don't know why they don't just set up an office for
him in the Green Zone- it would make things much easier for the GC members. They
wouldn't have to keep running down to Karbala to beg for his approval. It's
unbelievable. Sistani is a respectable cleric. He has millions of followers both
inside and outside of Iraq... but when you get down to it, he is Iranian. How is
it that an Iranian cleric is moulding the future of Iraq?
His opinion is
important in many ways- but he seems to have some sort of invisible veto within
the Council. All he has to do is murmur disapproval in the ears of one of his
followers and it is immediate dissent with his followers. It is so frustrating.
How is Iraq going to be secular and, well, *Iraqi* if we have a cleric of
Iranian origin making conditions and rules?!
The sirens rang out from the base in one of Saddam
Hussein (news - web sites)'s former palace complexes now known as the "Green
Zone," the heavily fortified headquarters of the occupying powers in Iraq (news
- web sites). The headquarters has repeatedly come under rocket and mortar
attack in recent months.
The former
chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix has declared that the war in Iraq was
illegal, dealing another devastating blow to Tony Blair. Mr Blix, speaking to
The Independent, said the Attorney General's legal advice to the Government on
the eve of war, giving cover for military action by the US and Britain, had no
lawful justification. He said it would have required a second United Nations
resolution explicitly authorising the use of force for the invasion of Iraq last
March to have been legal... And it appeared yesterday that the Government shared
that view until the eve of war, when it received the Lord Goldsmith's final
advice. Sir Andrew Turnbull, the Cabinet Secretary, revealed that the Government
had assumed, until the eve of war in Iraq, that it needed a specific UN mandate
to authorise military action.
The
[intelligence] community recognized that Saddam was a threat, but it never
suggested the threat was imminent, or immediate, or urgent.....Liar, Liar Pants on Fire
The second major claim in the administration's
case for war was the linkage between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda.
Significantly here as well, the Intelligence Estimate did not find a
cooperative relationship between Saddam and al Qaeda. On the contrary, it stated
only that such a relationship might happen if Saddam were "sufficiently
desperate" -- in other words, if America went to war. But the estimate placed
"low confidence" that, even in desperation, Saddam would give weapons of mass
destruction to al Qaeda.
A year before the war began, senior al Qaeda
leaders themselves had rejected a link with Saddam. The New York Times reported
last June that a top al Qaeda planner and recruiter captured in March 2002 told
his questioners last year that "the idea of working with Mr. Hussein's
government had been discussed among al Qaeda leaders, but Osama bin Laden had
rejected such proposals." According to the Times, an al Qaeda chief of
operations had also told interrogators that the group did not work with Saddam.
Mel Goodman, a CIA analyst for 20 years, put it bluntly: "Saddam Hussein
and bin Laden were enemies. Bin Laden considered and said that Saddam was the
socialist infidel. These were very different kinds of individuals competing for
power in their own way and Saddam Hussein made very sure that al Qaeda couldn't
function in Iraq."
In February 2003, investigators at the FBI told The
New York Times they were baffled by the administration's insistence on a solid
link between al Qaeda and Iraq. One investigator said, "We've been looking at
this hard for more than a year and you know what, we just don't think it's
there."
In a September 25, 2002,
statement at the White House, President Bush flatly declared, "You can't
distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."
In his State of the Union Address in January 2003, President Bush said,
"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by
people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists,
including members of al Qaeda," and that he could provide "lethal viruses" to a
"shadowy terrorist network."
Two weeks later, in his radio address to
the nation, a month before the war began, President Bush described the ties in
detail, saying, "Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct, and continuing ties to
terrorist networks ... "
He said, "Senior members of Iraqi intelligence
and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent
bomb-making and document-forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also
provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. An al Qaeda
operative was sent to Iraq several times in the late 1990s for help in acquiring
poisons and gases. We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network
headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner. This network runs a poison and
explosive training camp in northeast Iraq, and many of its leaders are known to
be in Baghdad."
In fact, there was no operational link and no clear and
persuasive pattern of ties between the Iraqi government and al Qaeda....
Why would the administration go to such lengths to go to war?
The only imminent threat was the November congressional election
A year ago Dan Drezner asked
a question: since we knew at the time that (a) Abu Musab Zarqawi and the
terrorist group Ansar al-Islam was connected to al-Qaeda, (b) they had camps in
the Halabja Valley in northern Iraq, and (c) the area in question was in the
American-patrolled no-fly zone and not under Saddam Hussein's control, why not
mount an attack on it?
In June 2002... the Pentagon quickly drafted
plans to attack the camp [but]... the plan was debated to death in the National
Security Council.... The Pentagon drew up a second strike plan, and the White
House again killed it.... The Pentagon drew up still another attack plan, and
for the third time, the National Security Council killed it.
Military
officials insist their case for attacking Zarqawi's operation was airtight,
but the administration feared destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could
undercut its case for war against Saddam.
If this is true....if this
is true...!!!!!!
I'm going in circles trying to find the original source
for this.
But, now that someone points it out, it is blindingly obvious.
Why was the US permitting the existence of an al qaeda training center in the
Kurdish region? The US had all the cards--it's impossible to claim that the
Kurds wouldn't have let us; we'd simply say "Okay, we're outta here."
DeLong calls for impeachment and treason charges.
Good question
for tomorrow's gaggle.
LONDON (Reuters) - George W. Bush and Tony Blair (news -
web sites) probably knew they were exaggerating the threat from Iraq (news - web
sites) when they were making the case for war, according to former chief U.N.
weapons inspector Hans Blix.
"Why did we permit the continued existence of a collection of
known evildoers?"
Sheesh. Talk about ratcheting up the cynicism
quotient. Not did they lie about the relations between Saddam and Answar, but
they left in operation to support the lie.
Lily Tomlin's right. It's for
a cynic to keep up.
And thanks.
Suppose we dismiss the anonymous military sources in the
story. Can you think of a good reason that an attack on Ansar was not made
before the war?
As I remember, most of them fled into Iran when the US got
around to prompting the Kurds to attack them, and Iran sensibly pushed them back
into Iraq.
Because they were an anti-Saddam group, and we were gearing up
for a war on Saddam. The U.S. was also trying to keep Iran benevolently neutral
for the upcoming war. Perhaps there was also some thought about the possibility
of coopting Al Ansar.
I would think that most Al Ansar survivors fled
into Iran after US and Kurdish forces attacked their sanctuary.
I suggest that elements within Iran are perfectly content to
have Al Ansar continue to operate. It keeps the Kurds busy (Iran has a Kurdish
"problem" too). It disrupts the existing regime in Iraq, and makes a transition
into a "democracy" more difficult. There is little evidence that Iraq would be
any better disposed toward Iran after Saddam, and vice versa.
It is yet another example of the Bush administration's misplaced
priorities. Hopefully it will be pointed out by the Democrats.
Time
Correspondent Phil Zabriskie let down his hair with a high school classroom, and
let them know exactly what he felt about Iraq after 10 weeks there (he had
reported from Vietnam in the old days.)
' “It’s like nothing I’ve ever
seen before. It is easily the most unpleasant place I’ve been. There is anger
everywhere.” Iraqis are angry for many reasons, Zabriskie said. They’re angry
because they’ve been oppressed for so many years. They’re angry because the
dictator they feared didn’t fight back when captured. And they’re angry that
American troops haven’t done more to keep the peace since Saddam’s regime fell,
Zabriskie said. “The U.S. leadership has not had a consistent plan . . . In my
opinion, it should not be as bad as it is right now.” He believes U.S. leaders
ignored warnings and were not adequately prepared to deal with Iraq after the
initial war. ...
There is still a wave of assassinations going on in
Baghdad. The streets are unsafe at night. People get murdered. Children,
especially girls, are kidnapped and held for ransom. Actually it sounds to me
like it is actually worse than Beirut in the first years of the civil war, at
least in Beirut. The US has managed to induce a failed state in Iraq. Although
many cities in the South have more security than Baghdad, it sometimes comes at
the price of the erection of a mini-theocracy. Geoffrey York's report from Basra
gives the flavor of rule by religious militia that has several times been
reported on by correspondents.
posted
by Juan Cole at 3/8/200409:00:27 AM
Colin Powell said so a year ago.
Pftt..30 second
American memories ;)
Cheney is still doing it. Which is decidedly less amusing.
BEST - Intermidable Palestine like violence
WORST - As soon
as the militias arm, LEBANON.
New Iraqi government
development proceeding according to plan despite minor glitches.
There's an interesting piece on tnr, suggesting
that the five clerics who claimed to acting for Sistani were acting on their
own. It also explores just how the Sistani's sub-sect's idea that there should
be separation between the clerical folks and government could play out.
There are a couple of possibilities here. One is that this is the
example that really undercuts the "quietist" picture of Sistani. Another is that
Sistani does indeed prefer that the Basic Law not include the Kurdish-veto
clause and the Sunni-Shia-Kurd presidency model, but, as Cole suggests, the
Governing Council members are inflating his involvement as a cover for their own
power grab. That strikes me as the most plausible explanation. Here's a fellow
cleric talking to Reuters: "The religious authorities have made their position
clear to the politicians, but don't want to interfere directly. They have deep
reservations, but also know this interim constitution is a step in the right
direction."
Can you please link to some of those america haters you're
talking about?
Are you going to insist they don't exist if I don't?
Right
TD..now how about making it an even 20 in AP, whaddya say?
"As I tell people, war's what they got with
George W. Bush as president, and we're going to win the war," he told a local
television station in an interview.
The Continuing Iraqi Menace
Ahmad Chalabi is loyal to
just one cause: his own ambition.
The contrast with
Chalabi's earlier behavior could not be more glaring.
Just last November
he supported the Bush administration's plan to hold caucus-style elections for a
new Iraqi parliament, to which the United States would transfer sovereignty.
Sistani objected to this plan, calling instead for direct elections. Chalabi
voted, in effect, against Sistani's wishes.
Juan Cole, a professor of
Middle Eastern studies at the University of Michigan and an invaluable blogger
on Iraqi politics, speculates that a turning point came this past Jan. 19, when
100,000 Shiites turned out on the streets of Baghdad to protest the U.S. plan
for elections. Iraq had never seen a street protest of anything like this
magnitude, and it had happened entirely because Sistani called for it. Just as
important, a few days later, some Shiites started rallying for a second protest,
but Sistani issued a statement against a sequel—and, as a result, nobody turned
out on the streets. "Not only could he turn it on," Cole said in a telephone
interview today, "he could also turn it off."
3
Killed, 20 wounded as Tens of Thousands of Kurds March in Joy in Kirkuk
The Guardian reports that tens of thousands of Kurds marched in
Kirkuk to celebrate the signing of the interim constitution. They incorrectly
believed that it accepted a consolidated Kurdistan and gave Kirkuk to the
Kurds
Turkey
on Interim constitution: "It Increases our Concerns."
Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani's Fatwa
In the name of the Most Exalted
Grand Ayatollah
Sistani has already clarified his observations on the agreement of November/15th
(and maintains) that any law prepared for the transitional period will not gain
legitimacy except after it is endorsed by an elected national assembly.
Additionally, this law places obstacles in the path of reaching a permanent
constitution for the country that maintains its unity and the rights of its sons
of all ethnicities and sects.
16th Muharram al-Haraam
1425
Saddam never asked for Nukes to be Reconstituted: Top Iraqi
Scientist
The George Washington of Iraq
Yes.
... has he suddenly grown balls or something?
Iran to resume uranium enrichment
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:03:58 -0500
To: "jex2"
Subject: Re: CIA Games??
not just considered it, but
know it
At 12:06 PM 2/6/2004, you wrote:
Mr. Marshall,
Have you ever considered that the CIA is involved in an inside/outside
two front war on the White House???
I think that if you will review the
chronology you will see a pattern....
Inside game - the Tenant Testimony,
the Niger Yellowcake story, the Kay bombshell - in each case the CIA issued
statements that appear loyal but in each case, the most credible, the most
concrete, the headlined element damns Bush and the rest invites futher
inquiry...
Then there's the outside game...you can get a good feel for
that from Sid Blumenthal's piece in Salon
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2004/02/05/wmd/print.html
My take:
Here they go again...
Yesterday Tenant
played the inside game "We never said there was an imminent threat", followed by
carefully chosen words to make the CIA appear loyal.
But former agents
continue to spill the beans...
When Bush insisted that Saddam was
actively and urgently engaged in a nuclear weapons program and had renewed
production of chemical weapons, the Defense Intelligence Agency denied the
assertions. Bruce Hardcastle, defense intelligence officer for the Middle East,
South Asia and Counterterrorism, "told them that the way they were handling
evidence was wrong," Patrick Lang, former head of Human Intelligence at CIA,
told me. The Bush administration response was not only to remove Hardcastle from
his post. "They did away with his job. They wanted just liaison officers who
were junior. They didn't want a senior intelligence person who argued with them.
Hardcastle said, 'I couldn't deal with these people.' They are such ideologues
that they knew what the outcome should be and they thought when they didn't get
it from intelligence people they thought they were stupid. They start with an
almost pseudo-religious faith. They wanted the intelligence agencies to produce
material to show a threat, particularly an imminent threat. Then they worked
back to prove their case. It was the opposite of what the process should have
been like, that the evidence should prove the case."
There must be 20 or
so seperate sources like this. Now remember that the CIA is a very close knit
group. Like the Marines, there are no "former" CIA employees...once in the
Company family...always in the family.....
Talking Points
Memo
http://talkingpointsmemo.com
"Senator, we did not clear the document," replied Tenet. "We did not
agree with the way the data was characterized in that document."
This is Ace's Closed Case
9And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham
as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children
for Abraham.
10The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every
tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
11"I baptize you with[1] water for repentance. But after me will
come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He
will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Case closed
THIS is what I have been talking about since March
2001
The education I would receive there was like an M. Night
Shyamalan movie -- intense, fascinating and frightening. While the people were
very much alive, I saw a dead philosophy -- Cold War anti-communism and
neo-imperialism -- walking the corridors of the Pentagon. It wore the clothing
of counterterrorism and spoke the language of a holy war between good and evil.
The evil was recognized by the leadership to be resident mainly in the Middle
East and articulated by Islamic clerics and radicals. But there were other
enemies within, anyone who dared voice any skepticism about their grand plans,
including Secretary of State Colin Powell and Gen. Anthony Zinni.
Even now the axe is lying
at the root of the trees
in the garden.
She also states the real motives for the
war quite clearly:
War is generally crafted and pursued for political
reasons, but the reasons given to the Congress and to the American people for
this one were inaccurate and so misleading as to be false. Moreover, they were
false by design. Certainly, the neoconservatives never bothered to sell the rest
of the country on the real reasons for occupation of Iraq -- more bases from
which to flex U.S. muscle with Syria and Iran, and better positioning for the
inevitable fall of the regional ruling sheikdoms. Maintaining OPEC on a dollar
track and not a euro and fulfilling a half-baked imperial vision also played a
role. These more accurate reasons for invading and occupying could have been
argued on their merits -- an angry and aggressive U.S. population might indeed
have supported the war and occupation for those reasons. But Americans didn't
get the chance for an honest debate
This isn't the first time she's complained publically
as I recall.
But it is the first time she has provided such rich detail:
A politically savvy civilian-clothes-wearing lieutenant colonel named
Bill Bruner served as the Iraq desk officer, and he had apparently joined NESA
about the time Bill Luti did. I discovered that Bruner, like Luti, had served as
a military aide to Speaker Gingrich. Gingrich himself was now conveniently an
active member of Bush's Defense Policy Board, which had space immediately below
ours on the third floor.
I asked why Bruner wore civilian attire, and
was told by others, "He's Chalabi's handler." Chalabi, of course, was Ahmad
Chalabi, the president of the Iraqi National Congress, who was the favored exile
of the neoconservatives and the source of much of their "intelligence."
As long as the
roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.
These internal talking points
seemed to be a mélange crafted from obvious past observation and intelligence
bits and pieces of dubious origin. They were propagandistic in style, and all
desk officers were ordered to use them verbatim in the preparation of any
material prepared for higher-ups and people outside the Pentagon. The talking
points included statements about Saddam Hussein's proclivity for using chemical
weapons against his own citizens and neighbors, his existing relations with
terrorists based on a member of al-Qaida reportedly receiving medical care in
Baghdad, his widely publicized aid to the Palestinians, and general indications
of an aggressive viability in Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program and his
ongoing efforts to use them against his neighbors or give them to al-Qaida style
groups. The talking points said he was threatening his neighbors and was a
serious threat to the U.S., too.
G. I. Wilson in Defense &
the National Interest
Originally published on
http://www.military.com/
Iraq is fast becoming a fourth generation
warfare swamp. The attacks on Shiite shrines in Baghdad and Karbala, killing and
wounding hundreds, portends more of the same. These coordinated attacks signal a
change in the very nature of the insurgency itself. Iraqi terrorists (both
foreign fighters and indigenous) are waging symbolic and ideological warfare
against the U.S., Coalition Forces, and segments of the Iraqi people....
The next 13 months will determine the path Iraq will ultimately pursue.
The volatile concoction of resistive Kurds in the north, assertive Shiites in
the south and embittered Sunni Muslims in between, exacerbated by the presence
of foreign interlopers, has all the potential for an internal explosion.
Hopefully terrorist and fundamentalist factions will not turn Iraq into a fourth
generation warfare swamp.
Spanish interior minister says new line of Madrid blast
investigation opened after police find van with detonators and Arabic-language
tapes. Details soon.
BAGHDAD (AP) —
Two American soldiers were killed when the Humvee they were riding in struck a
homemade bomb, the military said early Friday.
The soldiers were part of an
escort for a military convoy northeast of Habbiniyah in the Sunni Triangle when
the incident happened Thursday.
A third soldier was injured in the blast
and taken to a military hospital and was listed in stable condition.
Iraq: Hans
Blix
'I learnt I had been vilified, crucified and made to look like
an imbecile'
US tried to force the issue of 'smoking guns' without
finding hard evidence
Away from the violence, Washington doled out more
coveted reconstruction contracts in Iraq to US companies, in a controversial
contract-awarding process with lengthy delays and the cancellation of deals.
Bush Secretly Dispatches Top
Official to His Colony...Begging UN to Return
What did he say
about Kerry and the UN?
Have some soggy freedom fries on me
Salon
continues the excerpt from Craig Unger's new book:
Did the Saudis buy
a president?
How much money has flowed from the House of Saud to the Bush
family and its friends and allies over the years? No one will ever know -- but
the number is at least $1.477 billion.
March 12, 2004 | If
the Saudis had been happy with the presidency of George H.W. Bush -- and they
were -- they must have been truly ecstatic, in the summer of 2000, that his son
was the Republican candidate for president. Indeed, the relationship between the
two dynasties had come a long way since the seventies when Saudi banking
billionaire Khalid bin Mahfouz and Salem bin Laden had flown halfway around the
world to Texas to see James Bath, George W. Bush's old friend from decades
before. Even bin Mahfouz's subsequent financing of the Houston skyscraper for
James Baker's family bank or the Saudi bailout of Harken Energy that helped
George W. Bush make his fortune were small potatoes compared with what had
happened since.
"But NBC News has learned
that long before the war the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out
his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself — but never pulled the
trigger.
"In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed
that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in
northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide.
"The Pentagon quickly
drafted plans to attack the camp with cruise missiles and airstrikes and sent it
to the White House, where, according to U.S. government sources, the plan was
debated to death in the National Security Council.
"The Pentagon drew up
a second strike plan, and the White House again killed it. By then the
administration had set its course for war with Iraq.
"'People were more
obsessed with developing the coalition to overthrow Saddam than to execute the
president’s policy of preemption against terrorists,” according to terrorism
expert and former National Security Council member Roger Cressey.
"In
January 2003, the threat turned real. Police in London arrested six terror
suspects and discovered a ricin lab connected to the camp in Iraq.
"The
Pentagon drew up still another attack plan, and for the third time, the National
Security Council killed it.
"Military officials insist their case for
attacking Zarqawi’s operation was airtight, but the administration feared
destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against
Saddam." [!!!?!]
Powell, Rumsfeld, and Rice are all guests on news shows
later this morning. Maybe someone will ask about this. Maybe.
Suicide Attacks Leave 11 Dead in Israel
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Bomb
attacks in Baghdad killed four U.S. soldiers, the Army said on Sunday, bringing
to nine the number of troops killed in Iraq in the last four days by explosives
planted by guerrillas to target American patrols.
A military spokesman
said a roadside bomb blast in southern Baghdad around 10:45 p.m. (1945 GMT) on
Saturday killed three U.S. soldiers and wounded one.
Another bomb attack
at 6:30 a.m. on Sunday wounded an American soldier who later died in hospital,
the spokesman said.
I thought he was "culture war
president"
Then I thought he was a "rancher president"
I am
soooo confused
There's an interesting article in today's NYT Magazine about a huge tort
suit against several members of the Saudi royal family, major Saudi charities
and their major donors, on behalf of 9-11 victims.
SPIN BOLDAK, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Three Taliban commanders have
been arrested in a U.S.-led sweep of southeastern Afghanistan aimed at crushing
members of the former regime and their al Qaeda allies, an Afghan army officer
said on Sunday.
At least 12 Taliban fighters have been killed in the
week-old offensive which U.S. officials hope will snare al Qaeda leader Osama
bin Laden.
Rebels fired rockets into the eastern city of Jalalabad on
Sunday wounding two people, a Pakistan-based news agency said.
The three
Taliban commanders were arrested on Friday in a raid on a house in Zabul
province in a joint U.S.-Afghan operation, said General Fateh Khan, an Afghan
army officer based in the southeast of the country.
Just
three months away from regaining power, Iraq's main sects are spiralling towards
civil war. Paul McGeough reports from Baghdad.
So what to do now? The
powerful spiritual leadership of Iraq's majority Shiites this week was insistent
that the interim constitution that Washington had nursed to the table for Iraqi
signatures was, in fact, an interim "interim constitution" that would have to be
rewritten.
The US occupation authorities claimed the charter as a
victory and rushed on. But when the next step was identified as forming an
interim government, officials greeted media questions with we-don't-know shrugs
of the shoulders.
Discussions around the dinner
table mainly focus on the Transitional Law these days. I asked a friend to print
out the whole thing for me and have been looking it over these last two days. I
watched only a part of the ceremony because the electricity went out in the
middle of it and I didn't bother watching a recap of it later on.
The
words look good on paper- as words often do. Some parts of it sound hauntingly
like our last constitution. The discussions about the Transitional Law all focus
on the legitimacy of this document. Basically, an occupying power brought in a
group of exiles, declared Iraq 'liberated', declared the constitution we've been
using since the monarchy annulled and set up a group of puppets as a Governing
Council. Can these laws be considered legitimate?
The Faces Bush's War Dead
The number of U.S.
casualties grows daily in Iraq. The portraits of the fallen represent a
cross-section of the country itself. As the nation nears the anniversary of the
war's beginning, the Chronicle and SFGate take a look at those who have died: Portraits of Sacrifice.
Name: Brandon S. Tobler
Rank: Spc.
Branch of Service: Army
Age: 19
Hometown: Portland
State: OR
Date of Death: 03/22/03
Name: James M. Kiehl
Rank: Spc.
Branch of Service: Army
Age:
22
Hometown: Comfort
State: TX
Date of Death: 03/23/03
"This constitution does
not represent us. It is an attempt to stop the Islamists from taking power in
this country. We denounce this constitution that was written by American hands,"
said Ahmad Said, a demonstrator.
Iraqi Shia clerics lead Friday
prayer on the street in Baghdad
"The religious authority was not
consulted in this constitution, it's a pre-made dish cooked by the Americans and
their puppets in the Governing Council. We are ready to sacrifice our lives to
change this constitution," said Shaikh Hadi Waili, another protester.
Are you awarre that deaths by drowning are on the rise?
Isn't freedom wonderful! Just imagine it these guys had made these
demonstrations under Saddam's rule. But at least under Saddam there was
stability, right? More people have died by murder in America in the last year
that have died in Iraq. We could propably reduce that by quite a bit with
totalitarian rule.
It will be nice if there is freedom in Iraq when all's said and done. At
the very least, I hope the Kurds don't end up going backwards.
What's
your point? That the US should topple all existing dictators and impose
"freedom" by handpicking a ruling cabal, and writing a constitution that lacks
popular support? And that the right ones are whichever ones the Bushies pick
out?
What's your point, that Saddam should have been left in power, that
sanctions should have been lifted, that we should have ignored his development
of weapons and his great desire to get the bomb? If we were able to topple the
regime in N. Korea as easily as we toppled Saddfam, I would be for it in a New
York minute. If the world had any sensible leaders in the 1930's we would have
dealt with Hitler at least by 1937. And after WWII we would have gone after
Uncle Joe and destroyed Communism. Well, really, that might just be wishful
thinking. It would have been nice, though, if some on the far left did not see
the U.S.S.R. as the shinning light on the hill, but as the evil monster it
really was.
You grasp of WWII historical
context is surprisingly poor given that I understand you would have actually
been alive during the time. If we had attempted to take on the Red Army in
'45-'46 we likely would have lost an all of Europe except GB would have been
Soviet puppets instead of just Eastern Europe.
Oh please, you did not take my comment about the U.S.S.R seriously,
did you. Of course, the part about it being an evil regime is quite serious.
As to your other point. One must consider what options were open to us.
The only reason there were inspectors in Iraq was because of U.S. troops. Now,
we could have left forces there for a prolonged period of time, at least until
the inspectors would have assured us there were no WMD. France, Germany, and
Russia were asking for sanctions to be lifted, no doubt our and Britain's Air
Force would have been removed. So, wou Saddam have resumed his weapons
advancment? Would he have continued to support terrorists of Israel, or do you
see Hamas and Islamic Jihad as terrortist organizations or freedom fighters? It
seems to me, that Saddam was much easier to be dealt with not having WMD than
with them.
As to the use and misuse of intelligence, it seems to me you have a huge
group to castigate for that. It is pure folly and politics to lay that whole
trip at Bush's door.
And yeah, I did take your suggestion that we
could have continued straight from WWII to WWIII and a glorious victory over
Communism quite seriously. Sorry.
If you can explain to me why we invaded Iraq, perhaps we can
continue this conversation more fruitfully. It certainly wasn't to bring freedom
to the Iraqi people; there are plenty of other people lacking freedom. We'd
already brought freedom to the Kurds. We had completely contained the threat to
the region, and there was never a threat to the US.
Why did we invade?
As for whom I'm voting for, I'm voting against Bush. His is the worst
presidency since Harding. It would be hitting the quinella to have two worst
guys in a row.
But not at Clinton's, right? It woud be just hunky dorey to lay it at
Clinton's door because after all, lying comes so easy to him and we all know
Bush is a Christian. He'd never willingly lie.
But if this had
happened on Clinton's watch, we'd never hear the end of it. And that would be
just so fine with you, Al, wouldn't it?
More people have died by
murder in America in the last year that have died in Iraq.
Whih
makes it so much better. Except those murdered people didn't die in service to a
lie put forth by an administration who planned a phoney war before they ever
knew if there was a reason for it or not. And don't give me that bleeding heart
tripe about doing it for the Iraqi people suffering under the thumb of a
tyrant...if that were true, we'd have had a better future planned for them than
the one they are dealing with now.
One thing I would ask is that discussion of the role of
intelligence in making the decision to go to war include the intelligence
gathered during the period when the inspectors were there. They had dismissed
the nuclear threat as non-existent, before the war. Blix had found nothing. This
has to enter into the discussion of the decision to commit much treasure and
many lives.
Perhaps I don't quite understand where you are comming from. It seems to
me that because no WMD were found, the fact that Bush and many others were
convinced Saddam had them and would use them and said so, the American people
and Congress were misled, and intentionally so. For the most part, Congress
looked at the same intelligence report that Bush did. I will admit that some
statements made by Chaney were incorrect, but without those statements made, the
outcome would have, no doubt, been the same. I consider the claim that Bush
knowingly lied to be the bigtgest lie of all. I realize the hatred of Bush is
intense, that people of the jexster and WoW ilk call Bush worse than Hitler, but
surely you and jay are not that irrational.
An
Arab city council member was also shot dead in the northern city of Kirkuk where
observers fear the tense mix of Kurds, Sunnis, Arabs and Turkmen could ignite a
civil war.
As violence flared, rifts emerged over the role the
United Nations (news - web sites) should play in assembling Iraq (news - web
sites)'s new caretaker government, complicating US plans to transfer sovereignty
to Iraq by June 30.
The results of Spain's general elections were
also an apparent blow for the US-led coalition as the country's prime
minister-elect threatened to pull 1,300 Spanish troops from Iraq by the end of
June. 
Name: Jesus A. Suarez Del Solar
Rank: Lance Cpl.
Branch of Service: Marine Corps
Age: 20
Hometown: Escondido
State: CA
Date of Death: 03/27/03
No partisan of such a president deserves respect
Al D.
A British reporter recently
in Baghdad kindly sent me the following impressions:
"1. I didn't get
out of the city at all because of the security situation, and I concentrated
mainly on talking to Sunnis. The ones I met were both apprehensive and defiant:
apprehensive about "what the Americans are planning" -- one cleric told me they
want to hand Iraq over to the Shi'a,... He also denied that the Shi'a are in a
majority in Iraq. He told me the Sunnis suffered just as much under Saddam as
everyone else (and I met a woman whose husband and brother had been summarily
executed by Saddam's people for allegedly over-charging in their candy store).
Yet on the walls of the Islamic university in Adamiya there are freshly drawn
pro-Saddam slogans ...
2. The educated middle-class Sunnis (and indeed
one highly articulate Shi'a doctor) I met were deeply apprehensive about this
thing called democracy. They didn't at all like the idea that one day a
government might be chosen by ill-educated people who knew nothing of what might
be at stake. "We are not ready for this" was the refrain --
3. A former
Iraqi army officer told me that he and a small group of colleagues had spent
months discussing what they would do if the US attacked, and all agreed that
they wanted Saddam to be overthrown. (No way of checking, of course, if this is
true!) But he did say that the army was a genuinely non-sectarian institution,
and was bewildered that it had been swept aside in the post-war Iraq. He said
some former generals are now talking about going into politics, and perhaps
presenting themselves if/when elections are held as representing the possibility
of a non-sectarian Iraqi future."
posted by Juan Cole at
3/16/2004 01:14:34 AM
Thanks for the amplification.
Baraedi was done, which he
made clear in his March address to the UN. There were no nukes, and no program.
Blix said that neither hypothesis could be rejected, but, as you say
they had been to every site where we said we "knew" held weapons. Moreover, in
the two Atlantic articles--Kenneth Pollack and James Fallows--it is clear that
our source for those locations was the previous inspections.
I
don't credit,although I've thought it possible, the idea that they slammed the
door before the negative could be proved. Now it could be that the neo-cons did
want to slam the door for that reason, but I don't believe for an instant that
the president feared that there were no wmd. Was he lied to? I imagine so.
RIYADH,
Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Saudi security forces killed two militants, including one
considered al-Qaida's chief of operations on the Arabian Peninsula, in a
shootout in the capital of Riyadh on Monday, U.S. and Saudi officials said.
A Saudi Interior Ministry statement said the two were killed in the
al-Nasseem neighborhood, in eastern Riyadh, in an exchange of fire with security
forces on Monday afternoon.
"I think they had a set mind," Mr. Blix said on the NBC News program
"Today" as he began a ten-day American book tour in the week marking the first
anniversary of the United States-led invasion of Iraq.
"They wanted to
come to the conclusion that there were weapons," he said. "Like the former days
of the witch hunt, they are convinced that they exist, and if you see a black
cat, well, that's evidence of the witch."
- By David H. Hackworth, DefenseWatch Senior
Military Columnist
Since the war kicked off in Iraq, the
medical team at Walter Reed Army Medical Center (WRAMC) has been putting in long
hours – especially the overtaxed orthopedic staff charged with caring for the
thousands of soldiers who’ve lost arms and legs. The stalwart medics and nurses
who care for our terribly wounded there carry an especially heavy mental burden.
A medic at WRAMC told me, “Believe me, images of the carnage stick in your head
– like the 19-year-old kid with no arms whose mom was holding the phone for
him.” 
Name: Nicholas Brian Kleiboeker
Rank: Lance Cpl.
Branch of
Service: Marine Corps
Age: 19
Hometown: Irvington
State: IL
Date
of Death: 05/13/03
These results are from
an ABCNEWS poll conducted among a random, representative sample of 2,737 Iraqis
in face-to-face interviews across the country from Feb. 9-28. Part of ABC's
weeklong series, Iraq: Where Things Stand, marking the first anniversary of the
war, the poll was co-sponsored with ABC by the German broadcasting network ARD,
the BBC and the NHK in Japan, with sampling and field work by Oxford Research
International of Oxford, England.
Al-Qaida
Mutates Into Web of Terrorists
One of things this administration screwed up was
taking too long to recognize that US foreign policy as defined when they entered
office was 1)generally the best it could be (in a real-world,
balance-conflicting-interests sense) 2)even if not, required continuity.
Or to put it more bluntly, they were stuck with current initiatives in
their current forms. The few things they did that they've been able to make
stick--dumping Kyoto, for instance, were flawed policies.
An incoming
administration would have to continue cleaning up the mess in Iraq--especially
if the mess was getting cleaned up by Bush.
So why don't
you pose it to the republicans here as well? It's just as interesting a question
for them, and has actual policy implications. Are we cutting and running on June
30, no matter what?
That is an Al D. sort of question; a false dichotomy.
Since--as predicted and feared--the Bush administration is not doing a very good
job of nation-building or democratization at present, one can argue that the
Democrats could be nothing but an improvement. Kerry was an internationalist
before Bush could figure out which end of a map was up, and would be ideally
suited to assembling the multinational effort necessary to rebuild Iraq and put
it on the path to democracy (if such a thing is truly possible).
The Bush
administration, which baffled the world when it used an attack by Islamic
fundamentalists to justify the overthrow of a brutal but secular regime, and
which has been utterly ruthless in its political exploitation of 9/11, must be
very, very afraid.
Polls suggest that a reputation for being tough on
terror is just about the only remaining political strength George Bush has. Yet
this reputation is based on image, not reality.Dr. K
While the votes were counted in Florida, Bush Sr. went hunting in
Spain with Prince Bandar -- and the incoming administration ignored warnings
about al-Qaida.
TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras (AP) --
Honduras plans to follow
Spain's lead and withdraw 370 troops from a Spanish-led humanitarian and
peacekeeping brigade in June, Defense Secretary Federico Breve said Tuesday.
The decision marked an about-face from the day before, when President
Ricardo Maduro said he would not pull his soldiers from Iraq.
Let me reframe Pelle question. Suppose that as October
approaches, things are quiet in Iraq. Elections are scheduled for January, and
constitutional and voting rules have been worked out to a satisfactory
compromise. The Kurds don't feel like their sovreignity is at risk, the Sunnis
are confident that they'll be represented, and the Shi-ites feel like they have
enough provincial autonomy to enforce a limited form of the sharia, informally,
if not under law. The US has been given essentially unlimited basing rights, but
is no longer engaged in security on a routine basis.
Would you
reconsider a vote for Bush?
Now you can say, as I would if you asked me
this question, "It is to laugh. That scenario won't happen." But it is a good
hypothetical question. I know (I think) how jexster would answer. I'd have to
think about how I would.
OTOH, for the Bush supporters, the question is
are they really sincere about their concern for Iraqi freedom and democracy.
Would they be willing to have Bush stay engaged as fully as necessary up to and
including November if that's what it takes to establish the vision of Iraq that
we were promised? Or will they claim, no matter what happens, that Iraq is free
and democratic--mission accomplished?
That
hurts, wombat. But I don't think it is false and I did not intend to be flip. If
the June 30 handover is a failure and Iraq will suffer an escalating civil war,
that will no doubt be beneficial to Kerry. Personally, and because I would like
to see Kerry in the White House, I see that as a moral dilemma. There are
several ways to rationalize oneself out of that dilemma but I don't find any of
them very convincing.
I prefer to hope that the handover will go well
and that Kerry will win on the economy. That means of course that I want to see
more Americans out of work, another moral dilemma.
As far as I am concerned, Bush has done great
damage to America's strength and ability to project strength abroad. He is also
a needlessly polarizing figure to have in charge, and I also believe that he
allows astonishing cronyism to run rampant among policymakers. There is also the
religious element, I'm uncomfortable having "faith-based" policies of any type.
Finally, I believe in accountability. What good is democracy if we don't
cast our votes in a manner that demonstrates to those we entrust that their
actions and words do matter and are held to a high standard.
It is all very well to construct a false, giant, moral
dilemma out of straightforward electoral politics, but it's a bit much to then
clutch your tortured weeping "heart" while pointing accusatory fingers at others
for not joining in the crocodile tears.
End of freaking story.
"Moral dilemma". What a
wuss.
But it's all moot.If there was any chance of real progress we'd be
seeing things like discussions of voting systems and mechanisms for reflecting
the complex mix of geography, ethnicity and religion in the elections, which are
scheduled for, what, January. The complete lack of realism in the planning
process makes your question so hypothetical as to be meaningless. If there were
a chance of the scenario you outlined, we'd be pretty much on track by now. That
is, rather than rotating in more troops, we'd be in the process of withdrawing
them. Instead of extending enlistments involuntarily, we'd be working at
extending recruitment, without the pressure of maintaining security.
A
central reason for my opposition to this administration is the completely
political way they have approached Iraq. This has led to embarrassing failure
after failure. To say that all of sudden we should assume that things are gonna
be rosy after all is, to my mind, a scenario so unrealistic as to make the
hypothetical question nearly meaningless. The administration has had plenty of
time to demonstrate its competence in this regard, and, frankly, has manifestly
failed.
To now say that I've gotta pretend the past 8 months didn't
happen, especially given that I expressed misgivings about their ability to
handle the aftermath at the onset, in order to explore a hypothetical that is
nearly meaningless, is I believe, less helpful than it might be.
I wouldn't call that an ethical dilemma, just the kind of
thing that ordinary people sometimes do. They want to win, even at the expense
of their putative goals. I guess you can call that hypocrisy, but that is
hypocrisy on an entirely different order than talking about nukes that you knew
weren't there, and threats to American citizens that didn't exist, to justify
war.
"Hundreds of protesters, many of them relatives of US
soldiers killed in Iraq... or currently on duty in the region, marched outside
the Dover Air Force Base in the northeastern state of Delaware to protest the US
war in Iraq...According to the groups, the government of President George W.
Bush 'refuses to acknowledge the toll of this war -- including those who are
killed and wounded...
We call on this administration to start telling the
truth, and stop hiding the toll," Military Families Speak Out said in a
statement...
A similar protest is scheduled for Monday outside the Walter
Reed Army Hospital in the US capital, to be followed
by a protest march
outside the White House. The protests are being held to coincide with the
one-year anniversary of the US-led attack on Saddam Hussein. 
Name: Therrel S. Childers
Rank: 2nd Lt.
Branch of Service: Marine
Corps
Age: 30
Hometown: Harrison
State: MS
Date of Death:
03/21/03
Country is One Giant Gitmo
The
New York Times reports, "Iraq has a new generation of missing men. But
instead of ending up in mass graves or at the bottom of the Tigris River, as
they often did during the rule of Saddam Hussein, they are detained somewhere in
American jails." More than 10,000 Iraqi males, including an eleven-year old,
have "disappeared" as a result of daily raids by U.S. forces.
Iraq is
Bush's mess. He chose to fight it as he did. The laudable goal of overthrowing
Saddam was acheived. The Bush administration misled the US public and the world
about why it had to be fought (eventually--and cynically--claiming that the real
reason was to liberate Iraq from a cruel oppressor). The aftermath of the
invasion was predicted and ignored. If elected, Kerry will have to clean it up,
as he will the US economy.
Straightening
out the mess in Iraq, assuming that is possible to do at all, will be very, very
expensive and very difficult.
The news is that the hotel (where half the westerners in
baghdad seem to stay) was shaken by the blast, not destroyed.
Correspondent Luke Baker said several bodies were
being pulled out of the rubble of the small Mount Lebanon Hotel, used mainly by
Iraqis and Arabs.
The hotel, neighboring buildings and several cars were
ablaze, and rescuers said many people were trapped under the rubble.
"I
heard the explosion and I ran down the street, and saw many, many people killed.
There were children dead," said Raad Abdul Karim, 30.
Karim said the
neighborhood was populated by Shi'ites, Sunnis and Kurds. "They are ordinary
families," he said. "I don't know why this happened."
The hotel, neighboring buildings and several cars were ablaze and
rescuers said many people were trapped under the rubble
That's
what Reuters has.
You must be getting the GWB Texas feed...see pictures in
International Thread...
David Patel, in Basra responds
with some thoughtful comments on the recent ABC News poll from Iraq.
Some readers have asked me about the finding that Iraqis generally think
they are better off than during the Saddam era, but are very worried about the
security situation. This finding doesn't surprise me. Not only was life hell
under Saddam, but the UN/US sanctions regime made Iraqis' lives miserable.
Insofar as the removal of Saddam also entailed the end of sanctions, most Iraqis
have a double benefit. But it should not be forgotten that Iraqis are also
generally quite annoyed that the US hasn't done a better job on the security
front.
I know that the subtext in US politics is always the politics
around going to war. But it should be remembered that this consideration is
irrelevant to Iraqis. The vast majority of Iraqis welcomed the end of the Baath
regime. This simple fact does not justify the US invasion and occupation (or at
least does not make clear why we don't invade the Congo and the West Bank as
well). It is just a reminder that world political realities are complex and
ambiguous.
It is not necessary, in order to criticize the way the Bush
administration prosecuted the Iraq War, to deny that the Baath regime was
murderous.
Murderous regimes
need to be dealt with through international law and institutions. If you just
grabbed an unconvicted murderer off the street and lynched him, you would be a
murderer in your own right. Vigilanteism is not permitted to individuals; it
should not be permitted to individual states, either.
posted by Juan Cole at 3/17/2004 01:42:14 PM
No, it was NBC and Brian Williams was intoning in his best
"death voice."
They're more right
than you realize...
al Qaeda endorsing Bush. al Qaeda (supposedly) promising to not attack
Spain again if they withdraw from Iraq.
Why am I starting to feel that
unreasoned fear is empowering a very small group of people?
Now Holbrooke is on Hardball.
The attack on the Logistics Base Seitz, home to the 13th Corps Support
Command, in the town of Balad occurred Wednesday, according to a statement. One
of the slain Americans died instantly at the base while the second died later in
a combat support hospital, the statement said.
Two of the
wounded were also in the hospital, while the four others were treated at a local
military base and returned to duty.
The Neocon rats on a sinking ship.....The CIA is out for regime change.
Heard it here first
FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - A U.S. helicopter
came down on Thursday south of the flashpoint Iraqi city of Falluja, west of
Baghdad, witnesses said.
Name: Edward J. Anguiano
Rank: Spc.
Branch of
Service: Army
Age: 24
Hometown: Brownsville
State: TX
Date of
Death: 03/23/03
Kurdish
Demonstrations in Irbil on Behalf of Kurds of Syria
Reuters reports that
some 5000 Kurds demonstrated in the northern Iraqi city of Irbil, waving Kurdish
flags, in support of the Kurds of Syria. There was a soccer riot in the
northeastern town of Kameshli last Friday, which sparked Arab-Kurdish fights
that later spread to other cities like Aleppo. The Kurds in Irbil demand that
the United Nations intervene to ensure the human rights of Syria's Kurds, who
may form 11% of that country's population.
Turkey, which also has a huge
Kurdish minority in eastern Anatolia, has been worried about the prospect of a
semi-autonomous Iraqi Kurdistan that might establish political ties with other
Kurds in the area and encourage political separatism that would tear Turkey
apart.
posted by Juan Cole at 3/18/2004 09:09:12 AM
J(ex), he's worse than a liar, he's a bullshitter of the
most dangerous sort. At least the liar must have enough respect for the truth to
learn what it is and thus know exactly where the lie must be inserted in its
place for maximum effect. The bullshitter could care less about the truth &
simply spouts whatever might work in a given context to achieve the desired
results. See attached, excerpts from a piece by philosopher Harry Frankfurt that
should be placed on the same shelf with Orwell's "The Politics of the English
Language." Now that many American citizens and even some of the media are
getting wise to Rummy's bullshit and calling him on it, watch for an increase in
sophisticated forms of strategic lying. Best, Rich
No, I'm happy, I really am. I hope
it's Bin Laden and Al Zawahiri.
A diplomat for
23 years under several Democrat and Republican presidents, Wilson challenged
those who justify the war by asking whether Iraq is better off today than it was
a year ago.
"That's the wrong question," Wilson told a noontime crowd of
about 200 people. "The real question is 'Are we better off?' "
He asked
whether America was better off for "owning the potential for instability in the
heart of the Middle East for the foreseeable future" and becoming a target for a
possible "exponential growth in 19-year-old Arab males who hate us so much and
are so unemployed and under-employed that they're prepared to try to kill us and
die in order to attain paradise."
Wilson also said the press failed in
its coverage of the war. Americans saw "shock and awe" from the U.S. point of
view but not "shock and awe viewed by the shocked and awed. It is to our peril
that we neglect to understand or learn the impact of our actions on other
societies."
Wilson said he didn't oppose a policy of regime change
toward Saddam Hussein. He added, however, that the administration could have
used propaganda, subversion and other tools instead of "sending our young men
and young women to die and kill for our country."
He drew an analogy to
California that included a dig at Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger:
"The fact
that this administration had a regime-change policy in place toward California
doesn't mean that you mass 130,000 troops on the Nevada- California border and
march to Sacramento. You use other tools ... You get a bunch of people to get
petitions. You get a bunch of propaganda. You get a cartoon figure, a
caricature, to run for governor, and pretty soon you've got regime change."
At
least five attackers were killed in the battle, officials said.
In a
brief statement, U.S. Central Command said the American soldiers were
accompanied by troops of the Afghan National Army when they were attacked by
"anti-coalition militia" in a village near Tarin Kowt.
The Americans
were not identified by name or military unit.
Incompetence and Lies
Lying Incompetents
The
Cost of Bullshit:
Off the Mark on Cost of War, Reception by Iraqis
WPost
In their
spiderholes...
London-based Amnesty International meanwhile said more
than 10,000 civilians had been killed in Iraq since the US-led invasion began
last March 20. It condemned "flagrant violations" of human rights in post-Saddam
Iraq.
Iraq: One year on
the human rights situation remains dire
Whether or not they get him, this continues the disruption
of al qaeda command. It's great that the forces that have been driving the most
recent incursions have been French and Pak. The administration has done an
effective diplomatic job to get these forces involved. (I'm more than a little
concerned that the Pak price may have been acceptance of prolif, but we can't
know what deals were done.)
Name: Brian Rory Buesing
Rank: Lance Cpl.
Branch of Service:
Marine Corps
Age: 20
Hometown: Cedar Key
State: FL
Date of
Death: 03/23/03
OTOH, maybe one of the captured fighters will give
intel on ObL's location.
However, Waziristan is an extremely likely location
for fleeing jihadis. So, I guess we wait.
We know our Pakis don't we Margie?
Very funny
...the brains are slowly seeping out of Iraq.
It's no longer a place for learning or studying or working… it's a place for
wealthy contractors looking to get wealthier, extremists, thieves (of all ranks
and origins) and troops…
the total combined
intelligence of a wet sock and a mud brick
US tried to plant WMDs, failed:
whistleblower
According to a stunning report posted by a
retired Navy Lt Commander and 28-year veteran of the Defense Department (DoD),
the Bush administration’s assurance about finding weapons of mass destruction in
Iraq was based on a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) plan to “plant” WMDs
inside the country. Nelda Rogers, the Pentagon whistleblower, claims the plan
failed when the secret mission was mistakenly taken out by “friendly fire”,
.... 
Three cheers for our little brown brothers!
Tomorrow is the anniversary of the start of the
war in Iraq. It's a good time to take a moment to honor the sacrifices our
troops there and their families are making. More than 100,000 American troops
are serving in Iraq today.
Here's the story of one mother, Adele Kubein,
whose daughter was injured while serving in Iraq:
When my daughter
enlisted in the National Guard I was proud of her, for having the discipline to
make it through basic training. But I had friends who went to Vietnam, and I
said: "Baby, are you sure you want to do this? And she said: "Oh, mom, I'm going
to fight fires in Oregon, build roads, and there's never going to be another
war."
When she called me after her unit went from Kuwait to Mosul in a convoy
and told me that she had gone through roads with depleted uranium dust and tanks
with dead bodies in them, I was afraid. I knew that my daughter was facing
mortal danger. I cried for joy that she was alive when her helicopter was shot
down because the one in front of her, everybody died on. But when she called me
up and told me, "mom, I had to kill someone today, and I looked in his eyes and
I saw him die," I cried with her because I knew there was no going back then.
I want to know that there’s a good reason for what happened to my
daughter, and to all the other kids that have been killed and injured in Iraq.
My daughter told me stories about the Iraqi people, their casualties are just as
high as ours, and they love their families just as much as we love ours. When my
daughter was injured, I cried, I wept with joy to know that she was coming home,
because I knew that so many other people were not going to come home. My
daughter accounted for herself; she did her duties regardless of her fears and
feelings. She thought she was going to Iraq to build houses and schools for
people who needed them.
That’s what they told them in the Oregon National
Guard. Instead she ended up in an ever-escalating cycle of violence.
Our
nation is based on accountability. I want to know that what our loved ones are
going through is for a good reason. When I visit my daughter once more and hold
her as she weeps about the things that she has seen and done, I will tell her
that she did the right thing.
But I want to know that the people who lead
this country are doing the right thing also. [1]
Of course, this is just one story. Thousands of our troops in Iraq
have been injured, and hundreds have been killed. Countless Iraqis have also
been killed. [2]
One simple way to show our respect and gratitude for
our soldiers' service, and our hope for their safe return, is to put a candle
(or a light resembling one) in a window tomorrow night.
Our troops and
their families are making incredible sacrifices. Many reservists serving in Iraq
left with as little as a week's notice, and have been told they'll be there for
a year, at constant risk to life and
limb. At the same time, the Bush
administration has tried to short-change soldiers, veterans, and their families
on combat pay, [3] health care, [4] and education funding. [5]
One way
we can help is by giving to a fund called the Armed Forces Relief
Trust, which helps military servicemembers and their families with emergency
expenses, medical bills, flights home, and education costs.
Please take a few minutes to honor our troops tomorrow by
putting a light in your window. And if you can help some families in need,
that's great too.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
- Carrie, Joan,
Noah, Peter, and Wes
The MoveOn.org team
Friday, March 19th, 2004
Name: Richard A. Burdick
Rank: Staff Sgt.
Branch of
Service: Army
Age: 24
Hometown: National City
State: CA
Date of
Death: 12/10/03
stood the mournful mother weeping,
close to Jesus at the last,
Through her soul, of joy bereavèd,
bowed
with anguish, deeply grievèd,
now at length the sword hath passed.
Who, on Christ's dear mother gazing,
in her trouble so
amazing,
born of woman, would not weep?
Who, on Christ's dear Mother
thinking,
such a cup of sorrow drinking,
would not share her sorrows
deep?
Stabat Mater Dolorosa
Despite
increasing demands from Congress for details of the costs of postwar Iraq, the
Bush administration is likely to wait two months before submitting its first
rebuilding estimate, administration officials say.
Internal estimates for
rebuilding Iraq put the price for the coming fiscal year, which begins Oct. 1,
between $40 billion and $60 billion, according to two administration officials.
That would be in addition to the cost of keeping U.S. military forces there —
currently about $3.9 billion a month.
Officials stress that only broad
estimates are available, and their funding request won't be complete because of
uncertainty about Iraq's future needs. Much of the money would go toward repairs
to the electrical grid, water supply and oil-production facilities.
Whatever happened to that "plan" to have Iraqi oil pay for all this
rebuilding?
WASHINGTON (AP) --
The Bush administration considered bombing Iraq in retaliation almost
immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks against New York and
Washington, according to a new first-person account by a former senior
counterterrorism adviser inside the White House.
Richard Clarke, the
president's counterterrorism coordinator at the time of the attacks, said
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld complained on Sept. 12 -- after the
administration was convinced with certainty that al-Qaida was to blame -- that,
``there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan and there are lots of good
targets in Iraq.''
...............................................
Clarke makes the assertion in a new book, ``Against All Enemies,'' which
goes on sale Monday morning. He told CBS News he believes the administration
sought to link Iraq with the attacks because of long-standing interest in
overthrowing Saddam Hussein; Clarke was scheduled to appear Sunday night on the
network's ``60 Minutes'' news program.
``I think they wanted to believe
that there was a connection'' between Iraq and the al-Qaida attacks in the
United States, Clarke said in an interview segment CBS broadcast Friday evening.
``There's just no connection. There's absolutely no evidence that Iraq was
supporting al-Qaida.''
Former White House
terrorism advisor Richard Clarke tells Lesley Stahl that on September 11, 2001
and the day after - when it was clear Al Qaeda had carried out the terrorist
attacks - the Bush administration was considering bombing Iraq in retaliation.
Clarke's exclusive interview will be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday March 21
(7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. (Talking Points Memo)
03/20/04 Reuters: U.S. Marine
Killed in Attack West of Baghdad
Guerrillas killed a U.S. Marine near the
restive town of Fallujah, west of Baghdad, the U.S. military said on Saturday.
03/20/04 AP: Helicopter Shot Down Friday, Pilots Uninjured
A U.S.
military helicopter was downed by rebel fire west of Baghdad, but there were no
injuries, the U.S. military said Saturday.
03/20/04 Albawaba: US Soldier
Wounded In Mosul
US soldier was wounded Friday in the city of Mosul when a
rocket-propelled grenade was fired at the convoy he was travelling in.
03/20/04 AP: Eight U.S. Soldiers and a Marine Wounded
One civilian
was killed and another was wounded, witnesses said. The U.S. military said that
eight U.S. soldiers and a Marine were wounded when a mortar round hit a roof.
03/20/04 TheAustralian: Policeman shot dead in Kirkuk
An Iraqi
policeman was shot dead west of the northern city of Kirkuk today - hours after
US troops arrested a police officer suspected of plotting anti-American attacks,
Iraqi police said.
03/20/04 AP: US Soldier Fatally Electrocuted Working
On Equip In Iraq
A U.S. soldier was fatally electrocuted while working on
communication equipment at a U.S. military base in Baqouba, north of Baghdad,
the Army said Saturday.
The attacks came a day after the first anniversary of the start of the
war that ousted Saddam Hussein.
A 1st Infantry Division soldier was also
killed Sunday in an apparent accident during a weapons firing exercise in
Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad, Army spokeswoman Maj. Debra Stewart
said. The incident was under investigation.
Name: Christopher Scott Seifert
Rank: Capt.
Branch of
Service: Army
Age: 27
Hometown: Morrisville
State: PA
Date of
Death: 03/22/03
Latest reports are that the Paki Army
is suing for peace and that they've caught some Chechens for PootyPoot
Maybe dey don wanna catch Chechens for PootyPoot.
In any
event, this was clearly a political offensive for as Marj noted, the offensive
started with Powell's trip. Pakistan paid Bush back for looking the other way on
their nuclear bomb export industry
So much for the latest Bush stunt
Imperialism through Rose Garden Colored Glasses - The View from
Emperor Georgie's Colonia:
Green Zone Colors View of
Occupation
Here in the Green Zone, off-duty soldiers laze
away their afternoons sunbathing at the luxurious palace swimming pool.
Residents use telephones with an upstate New York area code, even to
call someone across the hall.
The parking lot is so clogged with
identical new sport utility vehicles that drivers have to punch the alarm
buttons on their key chains to draw a bead on where theirs are located. And
there's American chow, lots of it, shipped in from the United States. Think
chipped beef on toast.
Welcome to the Bubble....
Save for
the routine mortar attacks that have yet to do much damage to this sprawling
4-square-mile zone, there is a surreal sense of calm about the compound,
especially when juxtaposed with the snarled, noisy streets of Baghdad — which
many people inside the zone seldom, if ever, see.
It is a place
where soldiers and civilians work long hours, party hard when they can and look
for the little things that make life bearable in this hostile land.
But for Iraqis, the Green Zone represents a foreign power hunkering
down for a long stay — in Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s old digs, no less
— while shutting itself off from the country it conquered. Rubbing salt in the
wound, speculation has it that the zone, which encompasses some of Baghdad's
prime real estate, will eventually become the site of the mammoth U.S.
Embassy
BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 21 — Senior American commanders in Iraq are
publicly complaining that delays in delivering radios, body armor and other
equipment have hobbled their ability to build an effective Iraqi security force
that can ultimately replace United States troops here.
Minister of Electricity, Ayham al-Samarrai, was in Beirut for a
conference, and a Kuwaiti newspaper (as reported by AFP asked him if the Interim
Governing Council is an "imposed" body.
He replied "Absolutely . . The
members of the Governing Council and the cabinet think they represent 70 per
cent of the Iraqi people. How can they be sure? We have been imposed on the
Iraqi people by America . . . Of course, most of the members are known in Iraqi
society ... by their opposition to the former regime and also by their
democratic thinking . . . However, we don't represent the people. No one chose
us. Saddam was not chosen by anyone and neither were we." He said that the
Governing Council takes few formal votes and is deeply divided. "I think they
have applied the vote once or twice when they have made more than a hundred
decisions. . . Most of the essential decisions made by the council were
cancelled by the (US) civil administrator (Paul Bremer) for lack of harmony
among the members." Juan Cole
"War is "open" with Israel, senior Hamas
leader Abdul Aziz al-Rantissi declared today after the Islamist movement's
spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin was killed in an Israeli helicopter
strike."
Lies and incompetence
Incompetence and lies
A helicopter gunship against a wheelchair.
If we
needed any more proof that the Sharon gang is not interested in peace this is
it.
It is very important that everyone step back now and try now to be
calm in the region. There is always a possibility of a better day in the Middle
East and some of the things being talked about by the Israelis ... might provide
new opportunities
Flatulence ... pure unadultered flatulence.
She was passing
more on ABC this morning trying to refute Richard Clarke's scathing remarks on
Bush.
Jaysus Christ on a bike! It must be bad if Jack says
so.
"Shimon Peres, leader of Israel's opposition Labor Party and a
former prime minister, called the killing of Yassin a mistake. :`The first
question is whether it will increase terrorism or reduce it, and I believe it
will lead to an increase,' Peres said at press conference in Jerusalem broadcast
on Israel Radio."
And meanwhile neither Condoleezza or her speech writer
had time to think too hard about it all.
As Neato sez, what a fuck up.
A helicopter
gunship against a wheelchair.
Unfair, emotive, imagery.
You
could similarly paint Sharon in irrelevant terms - an old man, grizzled army
veteran, hobbled by high blood pressure, an insomniac with worries, whatever.
And if you had an assaination attempt against him you could similarly cry -
"Five automatic weapons against a diabetic geriatric.
It's what they do
and what they represent that's much more important than the corporeal shorthand.
Yassin had to know he had it coming, his hands were directly and repeatedly
bloodied by Hamas operations. It's a provocative measure by Israel, but not
necessarily a miscalculation (on either political or strategic grounds) by
Sharon.
Imagery?
Imagined?
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. im·age·ries
1. A set of mental pictures
or images.
2a. The use of vivid or figurative language to represent objects,
actions, or ideas. b. The use of expressive or evocative images in art,
literature, or music. c. A group or body of related images, as in a painting or
poem.
3a. Representative images, particularly statues or icons. b. The art
of making such images.
4. Psychology A technique in behavior therapy in
which the patient uses pleasant fantasies to relax and counteract anxiety
Try again
Emotive flimflammery aside, cutting
off Hamas heads has hardly been successful in the past.
Also, they had him
in gaol for 8 or so years before they let him go in exchange for some of their
own guys, so his being dead is going to do as much good as that did (fuck all).
As Pelle said, now he's a super martyr.
There is tremendous
calculation in this move, Sharon has been under a great deal of heat for his
plans to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza (under US pressure). Netanyahu just
agreed to it, if the US gived Israel significant cash.
But here Sharon
has roiled Gaza for the time being. Is it. as Schiff says, so that Israel can
withdraw "in strength" rather than the way they did from Lebanon (leaving
Hizbollah convinced it had won). Or is it yet another delaying tactic, ensuring
that he has legitimate security reasons to tell the US he is not letting go of
Gaza for the time being (read, thru the elections).
It is to be seen
whether either of these calculations is in error.
The French obstruction of the
deposal of Saddam Hussein can be understood from this perspective. Losing $100
billion in lucrative oil contracts, even aside from the French lack of ethical
principles and delusions of international grandeur, would be enough incentive to
cause France to do anything it could to keep Saddam in power, short of actually
declaring war on the United States.
Again, I ask for a link to this praise.
fwiw.
We have multiple firestorms now. Just
like October in California. 
Open the Gates of Hell (Exit 666 on Bush Roadmap)
The body of slain Hamas spiritual leader Shaikh Ahmad Yasin has
been carried through the streets of Gaza City by resistance fighters as they
made their way to the al-Shuhada (Martyrs)
The reason he can do it is because Bush has multiple firestorms
brewing in an election year.
130,000 troops in Iraq a country that is on
the verge of civil war.
Gimme a fuckin break
Bush
and what army (lit.erally)?
FMJ
and
Being There
The power equations have changed, the US merely has to be in Iraq
and Israel is more secure than it ever has been. Thus, Sharon can send planes
overflying Syria and dropping bombs, and thus he can feel some comfort that no
state player is going to get it on with Israel even if he runs roughshod in the
territories. He has impunity.
Get my insights from Spongebob,
nowadays.
See fits you to a tee!
Chance the Gardener: Yes, I've been here all my life.
Dennis Watson:
Really? And uh, where have you been all MY life?
[laughs]
Dennis Watson:
Ah, tell me, Mr. Gardner... have you ever had sex with a man?
Chance the
Gardener: No... I don't think so.
Dennis Watson: We could go upstairs right
now.
Chance the Gardener: Is there a TV upstairs? I like to watch.
Dennis Watson: You like to uh, watch?
Chance the Gardener: Yes.
Dennis Watson: You wait right here. I'll go get Warren!
Marjie's Grandfather (right)
Sorry Marge...temporarily
tired of TD...but your thinking is about oh...100 years out of date
"I kept thinking of the words from
'Apocalypse Now,' the whispered words of Marlon Brando, when he thought about
Vietnam. 'The horror. The horror.'"
reveals shocking literary
ignorance. As well as more than a little melodrama.
It quite obviously does.
Jex's
free-association ramble - including a period daguerrotype of Lord Kitchener, a
link (and quote from) harrowing Vietnam flick 'Full Metal Jacket', and that
passage of dialogue from Peter Sellers vehicle 'Being There' - is highly
entertaining. But irrelevant, it's quite obvious that the US's mere presence in
the region now acts as guarantor so that Sharon can do what he likes with near
total impunity.
The other point he made, about it being an election year
and Bush having his hands full already, has validity. It's true that Bush
perceives that he cannot act sharply to rebuke Sharon in this election period,
and Sharon has probably factored this into his calculations.
The question is, how is this war to be faught. The Palistinian groups
have chozen the killing of citizens; the Israels have chozen the killing of
terrrorists, with plenty of collateral damage. Should the Israels adopt the
Palistinian method? They could even hire Palistinians to do the bombing, if they
paid the families enough money. It is obvious that there is no hesitation on the
part of Muslims to kill other Muslims. It is happening in many Islamic
countries.
Lots of people think Jerry Falwell
and Pat Robertson are dangers; should they be targeted, too?
I agree with what you say;it is a shity situation and wer all
wish it would end. But what is Israel to do? I wish they would withdraw from all
Palistinian territory, buil the fence on the green line, exclude Palistinians
from entering Israel. If the Palistinian people then wanted peach, I think the
rest of the world should help them and try to make it a viable nation.
We've said it before. We'll say it again. The Hateful Muslim Types
want to fight an odd sort of "war" under terms that favor them. Basically, they
claim the right to kill whomever they like, and then whine "we just want peace"
when their victims counterattack.
It's about time that we let them know
that we're not interested in fighting that sort of war.
I copied this
off of Ace's Blog. He's doing a great job. I feel sure most off you would enjoy
reading his. He made the Mote a more interesting place.
Is it possible to get some fairness here? Look, if he wondered if she
knew al Quida, wouldn't a person just ask, "You do know who they are, don't
you."
It is obvious that the Bush haters are going to take all his crap in like
a jake, but if he has to stoop to nonsense like this, why take him seriously? 60
Minutes should register as part of the Kerry for President committee.
Don't take Chance
Gardner's word for it Marge
"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I
struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now
I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will
act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."
YHWH
At the press conference today, one reporter brought up the fact
that US has a standing policy in opposition to assassinations. He asked poor
Scott McClellan (boy would I not want his job) if that had changed. Scott gave a
series of non-answers, as he only could.
One can't have it both ways.
One can't deny that the Palestinians are waging war in the only way they can and
then accept Israel using the same techniques.
Course that's no big
considering his little nuts are in vice in Jerusalem
La
Suisse condamne l'assassinat du cheikh Yassine
_________________
Micheline Calmy-Rey dénonce une «spirale de la violence» - Pas de
mesures de sécurité supplémentaires en Suisse
Berne/Genève (AP) La Suisse a
condamné lundi l'assassinat du cheikh Ahmad Yassine commis le même jour à Gaza.
Un tel acte contribuera à intensifier «la spirale de la violence» au
Proche-Orient, a souligné la conseillère fédérale Micheline Calmy-Rey.
Le Département fédéral des affaires étrangères (DFAE) condamne »avec
fermeté» l'assassinat du cheikh Ahmad Yassine, de membres de son entourage et de
passants. Un tel acte «contraire au droit international» est de nature à
exacerber le cycle de la violence qui s'y perpétue, écrit le DFAE dans un
communiqué.
Le DFAE observe avec une grande préoccupation l'évolution de
la situation à Gaza et dans le reste des territoires palestiniens occupés. Il
exprime sa grande inquiétude face aux nombreuses victimes civiles occasionnées
par les opérations des forces israéliennes de sécurité.
Tout en
condamnant avec force le terrorisme et en reconnaissant pleinement le droit du
gouvernement israélien de prendre les mesures nécessaires pour protéger sa
population contre les attentats suicides, le DFAE
appelle le gouvernement
israélien à respecter en tout temps les principes de proportionnalité et de
distinction et de prendre toutes les mesures de précaution pour éviter des
victimes parmi les civiles palestiniens.
Cause
he's an evil terrorist and it was necessary to the defense of the Israeli
people. Let's concede those two points for the sake of argument.
But
they did more than that didn't they?
They took the old man out with
helicopter gunships as he was coming out of mosque after his morning prayers.
That was an intentional act. Deliberate. Calculated. Pre-medidated. Cold
blooded and unmistakably intended to provoke a violent reaction.
Balls....big bad
bush...big bad nothin
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Hundreds of
thousands of Palestinians chanting "Revenge! Revenge!" flooded Gaza's streets
Monday to bury Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin, who was assassinated by an
Israeli missile. As ordinary Palestinians seethed with anger, militants pledged
unprecedented retaliation — including threats against the United States.
BEIRUT, Lebanon - The largely dormant
Lebanese-Israeli front erupted in fighting Monday, with Hezbollah guerrillas
shelling Israeli positions in a disputed area and Israel retaliating with
airstrikes.
and if you believe Bush's denials that he had
foreknowledge...I have some yellow cake futures you're sure to want
"Chaos as the mangled remains were
brought in to the morgue" PBS
US HQ
Receives Rocket Fire; Elsewhere US soldiers Killed, Wounded
Wire
services report that the US headquarters in Iraq was targeted by rocket fire
Sunday morning, with other explosives landing elsewhere in downtown Baghdad. The
attack was remarkable for being launched during the day, and that it could be
pulled off at that time is a bad sign indeed on the security front. The rockets
killed 2 Iraqi civilians, wounded 5, and wounded a US soldier.
In
Fallujah, on Saturday night, guerrillas fired three rockets at the US army base,
killing two soldiers and wounding five.
Reuters reports of Abu Ghuraib
in Baghdad:
"A Task Force 1st Armored Division soldier and an Iraqi
interpreter were killed and three other soldiers were wounded during an
(improvised explosive device) attack on March 21," a statement from the U.S.
military said.
posted by Juan Cole at 3/22/2004 07:51:14 AM
Gimme a
break
Entertaining? Of course!
Irrelevant? Sadly so...for you still
have your tongue on your British Master's boot.
Al,
You can no doubt pick out bits and pieces that
strike you as overblown in this guy's book, or in his statements. I found the
"the horror, the horror" thing overblown. But he is someone who has been on the
ground on this issue for over a decade. I don't see how you can't take him
seriously.
I will read his book. But from what I heard so fClarkear, I'm not
impressed. He has been "on the ground" for much longer that a decade. His main
claim is that Bush did not take terrorism seriously , not even after 9/11. The
guy he should be talking about is Clinton, who did almost nothing about
terrorism. I do not hold Clinton responsible for 9/11, but he had 8 years to
handle UBL. Bush had something like 250 days. Of course Bush suspected Saddam;
he was an avowed enemy of the U.S. But three days after 9/11 the administration
focused on UBL. There is not much evidence he ignored UBL since he attacked him
and the Taliban, an action that many Americans were against. Some of the Mote,
for example. There is only one group to blame for all the attacks on America:
Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. We better hang together in this war, for if
we fail, western civilization is in big trouble.
jay
One can't have it both ways. One can't deny that the Palestinians are
waging war in the only way they can and then accept Israel using the same
techniques.
In what way is Israel using the same techniques? My
point was that their methods of fighting are not the same. Israel tries to hit
the guys that are responsible for attacks on them, while the Palistinian freedom
fighters try to kill civilians who, at least directly, have done them no harm. I
was being facitious suggeting that Irrael should use the same tactics. There is
no prohibition by the U.S. on targeted attacks. I believe it was Ford who signed
an executive order against the assination of national leaders. We have done
targeted attacks on terrorists every chance we get. We had a drone kill a whole
car load of them in Yeman. I say keep it up, both us and the Israels. Will it
solve the problem? Probably not, but what are the other options. By the way, I
would never say kill them all. But I do want us to get the terrorists before
they get us.
He can read the polls and the newspapers...he knows that his days
of holding the USG by the balls with his wacko bunch of Neocons running the show
are numbered....
Grand
Ayatollah Sistani Slams Imperial Constitution
Reuters reports that Grand Ayatollah Sistani sent a letter to Lakhdar
Brahimi, special envoy of UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, demanding that the
United Nations not endorse the interim constitution signed in early March by the
Interim Governing Council.
These are the Sistani quotes in the article:
"The (Shi'ite) religious establishment fears the occupation
authorities will work to include this law in a new U.N. resolution to give it
international legitimacy . . . We warn that any such step will not be acceptable
to the majority of Iraqis and will have dangerous consequences . . . This builds
a basis for sectarianism. Consensus would not be reached unless there is
pressure from a foreign power, or a deadlock would be reached that destabilizes
the country and could lead to break-up . . ."
That a calm and
cautious figure like Sistani is talking about the potential of the interim
constitution's approval of loose federalism to destabilize or even break up Iraq
alarms me no end.
posted by Juan Cole at 3/22/2004 07:36:28 AM
And WHAT do you think the impact of Sharon's gambit will be in The
Colony of Iraq?
(Richard) Clarke said U.S. intelligence
does not know how much of the substance was produced at El Shifa or what
happened to it. But he said that intelligence exists linking bin Laden to El
Shifa's current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts and the National
Islamic Front in Sudan.
Clarke did provide new information in
defense of Clinton's decision to fire Tomahawk cruise missiles at the El Shifa
pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan, in retaliation for bin Laden's role in
the Aug. 7 embassy bombings. While U.S. intelligence officials disclosed shortly
after the missile attack that they had obtained a soil sample from the El Shifa
site that contained a precursor of VX nerve gas, Clarke said that the U.S.
government is "sure" that Iraqi nerve gas experts actually produced a powdered
VX-like substance at the plant that, when mixed with bleach and water, would
have become fully active VX nerve gas.
Clarke said U.S. intelligence
does not know how much of the substance was produced at El Shifa or what
happened to it. But he said that intelligence exists linking bin Laden to El
Shifa's current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts and the National
Islamic Front in Sudan.
Given the evidence presented to the White
House before the airstrike, Clarke said, the president "would have been derelict
in his duties if he didn't blow up the facility."
Clarke said the U.S.
does not believe that bin Laden has been able to acquire chemical agents,
biological toxins or nuclear weapons. If evidence of such an acquisition
existed, he said, "we would be in the process of doing something."
It appears that Richard Clarke believes that Saddam was cooperating with
Al Qaeda.
Meaningless, ignorant drivel.
Richard A. Clarke
So you oppose Bush's middle east policy, and agree with the Israeli
left. That's what I like about you, Al. You're an independent thinker.
What he wants is to cash in on the Madrid atrocity,
perhaps also the Pakistan skirmishing. We're all in this together, brothers,
it's us and them.
This, of course, has the potential to become a
self-fulfilling prophecy (a bit like "Al Qaeda in Iraq").
His administration has had a couple of historic windows of opportunity
to drive progress towards peaceful coexistence -- particularly, one of their own
making, in the aftermath of the Iraq intervention. It pissed those opportunities
away.
So, knowing that nothing good is going to happen this year on the
Israel/Palestine front, perhaps their interest is that it should get really bad.
That way, they can strike tough postures as defenders of the Good Guys against
the Terrorists, and they can depict Kerry as an ineffectual, hand-wringing "why
can't everyone be nice" guy.
Al: the difference between
deliberately targeting civilians, and carrying out "precision" attacks with the
full knowledge and expectation that there will be "collateral" civilian
casualties, is a difference without a distinction; sufficient only to salve the
Israelis' consciences and those of their supporters in the United States. Both
are examples of the ends justifying the means, and neither have brought Israel
and the Palestinians closer to their stated (and unstated) goals. Israel's
counterterrorist policy under Sharon has been a spectacular failure, compared to
the 1990s, and it shows no signs of improving.
Why did they boost Hamas at the time? Why are they (objectively)
boosting Hamas now?
Same reason. Undermine Arafat. Smart.
Getting bin Laden is very
difficult. It is very hard to get one guy, especially one guy who is well aware
that he is at risk. Clinton's people, pretty much unanimously say that they were
doing all they could to get that one guy. Clarke's criticism is that Bush (as he
did with pretty much all Clinton initiatives) downgraded that pursuit. They say
they had a plan to get him that Bush simply discarded.
Clinton could
have, and in retrospect should have, committed more resources. But he was
constrained. When he launched a missile attack at bin Laden, he wasn't
criticized for not attacking more forcefully. He was criticized for trying to
distract the nation from the real issue--his affair with Lewinski. He simply
would not have been permitted to make the commitment of military resource that
would have been required to make a meaningful attempt to get bin Laden.
Nor, for that matter, could Bush have done so, before 9/11. The Cole,
the embassies didn't strike home, didn't provide the political wherewithal for
the action that was needed. I don't fault Bush for not launching the full bore
Afghan attack before 9/11. I do fault him for not, as Clarke says and for which
there is plenty of supporting evidence, attending to the danger facing the
American people from al qaeda.
It's a lie. It's a lie they spoke
knowing it was a lie. It's a lie he continues to repeat.
And we still
don't know what the president's motives were in invading Iraq.
From 1991 to 2003, how many
billions were spent on "containing" Saddam? How many military resources
committed to the Gulf region because Saddam was a continued threat? How much
effort and money wasted on maintaining sanctions? Most importantly, from the POV
of the people and countries in the region, (like me for example) how
debilitating to the regional economy was the continuing Iraqi "situation?"
Easy. Bad enough that EVERY Gulf country supported the war to oust
Saddam in real, material ways. Not just Saudi and Kuwait, but Qatar, Bahrain,
the UAE, and yes, even Iran, actually aided the war effort. Why?
Again,
easy. Libya and Cuba are proof that sanctions can last forever: stalemate.
Meanwhile the Iraqi people and their neighbors' economies suffer. And Saddam's
cynical policies, deliberately letting children die and blaming their deaths on
sanctions, further inflamed hatred of the US in the Middle East as well as among
muddle-headed types who can't tell the difference between black and white.
Also,
the Arab/ME outrage over the impact of sanctions in Iraq similarly pales in
comparison to the current Arab/ME outrage about the slow going in Iraq and the
blanket support of the Sharonites in Israel.
But your point that most
countries in the region (and most people everywhere) wanted Saddam to go is
accurate, it's doesn't contradict the above.
Maybe my pragmatic views offend some idealistic types, but I stand by my
assertion that removing Saddam was a necessary and justified action, which has
been and will continue to be beneficial to both Iraqis and their neighbors.
Whinge about this and that short-term effect, but even in the medium term, the
benefits far outweigh the costs. IMO they do already.
OK, have at me! :p
I can speculate. I have done so in the past. My personal
view is that the military wants a secure base, that the neo-cons want a place to
defend Israel from and that the diplomats want a friendly state that's not in
immediate danger of collapse.
But, as banks points out, your story
doesn't work at all (other than the Saddam was a bad guy story). Containment was
working fine, in fact better than the intelligence folks thought. It's entirely
possible that a combination of threatened US force and UN pressure could have
eliminated Saddam bloodlessly. That may not have happened, but that option was
never pursued. The option that was pursued was not fully worked out.
As
for being smart enough to figure it out for ourselves, it seems to me that the
president should be honest enough to tell us what the reasons were.
You don't have to draw me a picture. I had been advocating
Saddam's overthrow for longer than the Mote (and the Fray) have been in
existence, back when Don Rumsfeld was flying to Iraq to assure Saddam of the
United States' best intentions toward him.
However, the reasoning and
the conduct of the campaign against Saddam by the Bush administration was badly
flawed. Like it or not, the US public was not and would not to be swayed by the
best reason to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam: namely that it would remove a
bloodthirsty tyrant and free Iraq (and also a constrained but extant regional
threat). Instead it was presented as a new front in the "War on Terrorism," as
an urgently-needed strike against an imminent threat, not to the region, but to
the United States itself. This was based on readings of intelligence that were
exaggerated, although in good company(WMD), and unsubstantiated to the point of
delusional (Saddam-Al Qaeda links).
Gee, I really can't believe I have to draw
you a picture. It's so simple, and you really are smart enough to figure this
out for yourself.(Sigh)
But I'll draw this picture. Bush lied about his
reasons because he would not have had support for removing Saddam unless he
could claim an immediate (or grave or urgent...) threat to the United States. To
get support for the war, he needed to say that by fighting in Baghdad, there'd
be no fighting in Boston. In the event, of course, there's Madrid....
Welcome back tho!
Israel 'targeting all Hamas leaders'
Israel will attempt to
kill the entire leadership of Hamas, Israeli security official reported as
saying
Now for Marge...
See its not that Sharon is
protected by the Bad Bush. Its that he knows the axe is lying at the root...
Give 'em the Axe, the
Axe, the Axe.
Give 'em the Axe, the Axe, the Axe.
Give 'em the Axe, give
'em the Axe, give 'em the Axe
WHERE?
Right in the neck, the neck, the
neck.
Right in the neck, the neck, the neck.
Right in the neck, right in
the neck, right in the neck
THERE!
Maybe my pragmatic views offend some idealistic types, but I stand by my
assertion that removing Saddam was a necessary and justified action, which has
been and will continue to be beneficial to both Iraqis and their neighbors.
Whinge about this and that short-term effect, but even in the medium term, the
benefits far outweigh the costs. IMO they do already.
OK, have at me! :p
Sharon's Murder of Yassin Endangers Americans in Iraq
and Elsewhere
David R. Sands makes excellent points about the
connection between Ariel Sharon's murder of Shaikh Ahmed Yassin on Monday and
the security of Americans in Iraq and elsewhere. (I use the word "murder" to
refer to extra-judicial killing outside the framework of conventional war
between states).
Sands points out that Iraqis in the north and the south
staged protests:
' Protesters at two demonstrations against the U.S.-led
coalition — one in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul and the other in the
southern city of Basra — chanted in support of Sheik Ahmed Yassin. "Do not
worry, Palestine. Iraq will avenge the assassination of Sheik Yassin,"
protesters in Mosul chanted. '
It is not as if Mosul and Basra were
quiet or coalition forces needed more provocations.
The most
dangerous regime to United States interests in the Middle East is that of Ariel
Sharon, not because he fights terrorists, but because he is stealing the
land of another people and is brutalizing them in the process--and those are
people with whom the rest of the Middle East and the Muslim world sympathizes. A
US counter-insurgency fight against Muslim radical extremists requires winning
hearts and minds, which is impossible as long as Sharon behaves the way he did
Monday, since everyone in the region knows that the US coddles the Israeli
Right. Israel once had a proper prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, who knew how to
make peace and how to be a good partner for America. Sharon is not good enough
to shine his shoes.
posted by Juan Cole at 3/23/2004 08:12:55 AM
Damn didn't I say that yesterday?
Message # 3915
PS: wow, I feel like I just jumped into a school of pirhanas!
But I like it! Maybe tomorrow I will respond more cogently. FOr now I
will admit nothing!
At the
same time, the apparent tacit US approval - which contrasts with the swift
condemnation of the killing by other countries - suggests why the road ahead in
the Middle East remains so arduous for the US.
What looks to Arabs in
the region like a US "green light" to Israel also raises the prospect that the
US, or at least American interests in the region, will become a target of
militant Palestinian reprisal.
"The Zionists didn't carry out their
operation without getting the consent of the terrorist American administration,
and it must take responsibility for this crime," Hamas reportedly said in a
statement Monday. - CSMonitor.
Now, we have speculated about Sharon's
calculations, what were/are the Bushite calculations in (obviously) approving
this operation and setting Hamas off?
I am speaking of those Motiers, past and
presnt, who, prone to adolescent power fantasies, cheered lustily as Sharon
butchers Palestinians especially in the Spring of 2002.
Well now the
Butcher of Beruit and the Bungling Butcher of Baghdad are endangering American
lives and US national security with their antics
Dilution of resources used
against Taliban/Al Qaeda (the latter an actual threat to the United States);
Insufficient forces on the ground once Saddam fell. The United States
(and the Iraqis) will be paying the price for that for years;
Poor
planning for the aftermath (see above)
The US military is tied down in
an insurgency that shows more signs of mutating and expanding than in ending.
Iraq as a flashpoint for Islamic terrorism, with the US and its allies
as targets.
Strained alliances needed for the continuing antiterrorist
activity elsewhere.
High costs.
The kicker is that the Bush
administration ignored and/or derided any information, suggestions, or concerns
that were contrary to their stated beliefs. They have also misled the United
States and its allies on almost every aspect of the war, its build-up, and its
aftermath.
Unfortunately, all these factors outweigh the
underrecognized--by the Iraqis--benefit of freeing Iraq from Saddam.
1) There's the Neocon's getting
their perpetual war first expounded by Anatol Lieven and I Wallerstein later
picked up by Cole, Marshall and several others
2) Combined with the
desperate gambit of the Bush political operation to elect a War
President....like Sharon..like they did in 2002.....need clear and present fear
"Will Wage War for
Work"
Welcome to the Quagmire
Juan Cole, PhD (salon)
Professor of Middle East and South Asian Studies,
University of Michigan
Saddam was a diversion..
I told you so a year
ago
Yea Pollacks...
No one took me for a ride
TD, you ready for yours in that SL600?
You
Polish by chance Dubai?
Wombat?
Saddam was never a
threat...that's a unsuportable flaccid figment of your Polish minds
I gotta go
I won't restate my own position because it is very close to
Wombat's.
McClellan
explicitly denied knowledge or approval of this operation in yesterday's press
conference.
For what that's worth.
McClellan
explicitly denied knowledge or approval of this operation in yesterday's press
conference.
For what that's worth.
in
itself, but the details of how this is done are vital and IMO
neither the
Isrealis nor the US have been going about it in the
correct manner.
Sheik Yasmin and others are officially targetted for assassination
because they are responsible for the detonation of bombs in areas
crowded with civilians and with the intent of killing as many of
these
civilians as possible in the hopes that this will change the
strategic
situation in their favor. The response MUST be precise and
courageous if it
is not to be seen as simply another turn in the
cycle of violence. This
means that the assassinations must kill ONLY
the intended target and, if
absolutely necessary, the target's
bodyguards. Any innocent civilian
injuries or deaths cause the
assassination to do more harm then good.
since
the organizations are now within Isreali controlled territory
responsibility
has moved from Mossad to Shin Bet/Isreali Defense Force with the result that the
IDF has been given the responsibility
to execute the assassination. The IDF,
and apparently Shin Bet, is very reluctant to take the casualty risks that
precisely targetted
assassinations would require and have instead relied on
missile attacks. The result is that in every case of such assassinations many
people other than the target are also killed and injured. This is precisely the
wrong way to go about this as it simply fuels the connection between the
Palestinian populace and the terrorist
organizations and continues the cycle
of violence.
The US appears to have learned its lessons on combating
terror organizations at the knee of its Isreali client and so sees such
operations through a military lens, as part of a "War on Terror". And so we also
minimize the risk of US casualties by using air power with its co-committent
increase in civilian casualties and increasing connection between the populace
and the terror organizations in a cycle of violence.
For assassination
to work the following must occur:
- The target of the assassination is
overtly identified prior to the operation. Think of this as issuing a Fatwa.
- The operation must have minimizing non-target casualties as its first
priority. This means that friendly force casualties MUST be not only acceptable,
but expected.
- Capturing the target, rather than killing, should be the
priority and assassination should only be considered when the circumstances make
capture either unlikely or likely to result in civilian and/or friendly force
casualties.
Pelle
Would you please tell me where there is a peace process between
Palistinians and Isralies? Absolutely nothing was gained by Clinton's great
effort to bring peace. There will never be peace until there is an end to the
war, and that will come when one side feels defeated, and that is a long way
off. Things will half to get much worse before they can get better.
What
he needed was a good reason, an attack from Germany or Japan. I am not claiming
that F.D.R. caused Pearl Harbor, but he did blockade Japan from Indonesian oil,
which might have provided reason for Japan to try to knock out enough of our
fleet to put a stop to blockade or at least to let us know there was a price to
pay. Admiral Yamamoto, when asked what was Japan thinking in that attack, said
they did not believe America would go to war since there was so much anti-war
feeling and Congress had approved the draft with a one vote margin.
If
F.D.R. did take actions feeling sure Japan would strike back, thus giving him
his cause, rather that going to the American people and leveling with them as to
what needed to be do, would the means that he used justify the end?
They lost the formula.
What do you think the end will be after the assassination of Yassin? As
far as I can see the only end is going to be an escalation of violence and a lot
more killings of Israelis and Palestinians alike.
It does cause outrage and perhaps more violence by the
Palistinians. Then again, one can hardly argue that the Palistinians need more
reason to kill Jews. Would you agree that the goal of the Palistinians is to
drive Israel out of the Middle East? If you do, is that acceptable to you? If
yes, then there is no possibility of dialouge between us. I am aware of the fact
that Sharon's action is seen as causing the violence, but the violence would be
the same if Labour had the government. The cause of the violence is Palistinian
hatred of Israel. They do not consider them legitimate. They were not able to
drive them out with several wars, even with the help of Jordan, Iraq, Syria,
Lebanon, Egypt, all of whom had the backing of ever arab (and Iran) country
financially if they needed it.
They are already dying because of Bush's
bungling and his lies
Americans are going to start dying as a DIRECT
result of this joker's games.
And AL D has temerity to call himself a
patriot.
JERUSALEM - Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin, assassinated in
an Israeli air strike, offered Israel a 30-year truce in 1997, the mediator who
arranged Yassin's release from prison said Tuesday.
Efraim
Halevy, a former Mossad operative who was called in to resolve an Israel-Jordan
crisis after a botched assassination attempt against a Hamas leader in Jordan in
1997, made the disclosure in an interview on Israel TV.
Would you please tell me where there is a peace process between
Palistinians and Isralies?
There is something called The Roadmap to
Peace launched by the Bush administration.
There are certainly people who feel that way.
There are also certainly people whose goal is driving the Palestinians out of
"Israel". Those extremist views are beside the point. The point is, at heart, a
demographic one. In twenty years, there are going to be way more Palestinians
than Israelis in the region.
The Israelis have the whip hand. How are
they going to use it? Sharon's policies don't fill me with a sense of peace,
hope and understanding,
He has consistently
said that he will not negotiate with the Palestinian authorities as long as
there are terrorist attacks.
So, he controls the timetable with respect
to terrorism (as he has repeatedly demonstrated); paradoxically, he is content
to let the terrorists control the timetable with respect to the peace process.
Sharon is nothing more than a mafia don who rubs
out other mafia dons, and doesn't care how many innocent women and children get
sprayed by the machine gun fire (were Yassin's 7 companions all guilty of
capital crimes?
when the Israelis heard there was going to be a war,
they came trooping to Washington with their hands out, asking for an extra $4
billion. Yes, folks, the US taxpayer was asked to fork over $4 billion to Ariel
Sharon. Why? Because US men and women from Nebraska and Missouri and the other
states were being put in harm's way in part to protect Israeli interests in the
Middle East? We had to tax ourselves for the privilege of contributing to
Israeli security? Juan Cole
When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because
they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.
Of course we won't....
Sharon has Bush by the balls...
I say let the Swedes underwrite his crimes
There is something called The Roadmap to Peace launched by the
Bush administration.
At the present time all these prior agreements mean nothing. Clinton did
the best he could at Wie (sp. is wrong no doubt) but it came to naught. The Bush
administration came up with the road map, which can only happenen when violence
stops. Don't hold your breath.
alistair
There is also something
called the Geneva Accords,
There certainly is, signed by Arafat. Did't he gewt the Nobel Peace prize
for that? Can they take it back. He never intended to abide by it. It he tried
to make peace with Israel he would be killed, just as Sadat was.
jay
There are certainly people who feel that way. There are also certainly
people whose goal is driving the Palestinians out of "Israel". Those extremist
views are beside the point. The point is, at heart, a demographic one. In twenty
years, there are going to be way more Palestinians than Israelis in the region.
There is something called The Roadmap to Peace launched by the
Bush administration.
At the present time all these prior agreements mean nothing. Clinton did
the best he could at Wie (sp. is wrong no doubt) but it came to naught. The Bush
administration came up with the road map, which can only happenen when violence
stops. Don't hold your breath.
alistair
There is also something
called the Geneva Accords,
There certainly is, signed by Arafat. Did't he gewt the Nobel Peace prize
for that? Can they take it back. He never intended to abide by it. It he tried
to make peace with Israel he would be killed, just as Sadat was.
jay
There are certainly people who feel that way. There are also certainly
people whose goal is driving the Palestinians out of "Israel". Those extremist
views are beside the point. The point is, at heart, a demographic one. In twenty
years, there are going to be way more Palestinians than Israelis in the region.
Yes, I remember someone on the Mote who advocated that all Palistinians
be driven into Jordan. But the Palistinians who advocate Israel's ejection from
the M.E. are the ones in power, de facto. If Arafat is not of that ilk, which he
probably is, it matters little.
The point is, at heart, a demographic one. In twenty years, there
are going to be way more Palestinians than Israelis in the region.
Since you say "in the region" I assume you are not saying more
Palistinian Arabs in Israel. That certainly would change the dynamics. Israel is
a Democracy, so if the Arab population ever exceeded the Jewish population it
would cause a interesting dilemma. Perhaps all the Diaspora Jews should consider
moving to Israel. they would need more land. Perhaps they could purchase it from
the Arabs, as the zionists did before 1948.
Of particular interest:
"So
the Palestinians have nothing in their disposal but stones which they throw at
their enemy in order to defend their country. This, despite its indication of a
high morale, cannot deter the enemy this way. So the Palestinians resort to
martyr operations, in which the martyr blows himself/herself up, sacrificing his
life for the sake of his country and inflicting serious but reciprocal harms on
the enemy.
In the light of the above-mentioned facts, I believe that
those missions are a sacred duty carried out in form of self-defence and
resisting aggression and injustice. So whoever is killed in such missions is a
martyr, may Allah bless him with high esteem. I call on every Palestinian not
to hesitate in carrying out such operations as long as they are the only way of
making Jihad and are made with an intention of sacrificing one's life for the
Sake of one's religion and nation. I wish that other scholars who hesitate
concerning such a matter to reconsider their views according to what I have said
and what other scholars have said. May Allah guide us all to what is right."
Why did the Palestinians move to
killing civilians instead of moving further toward Ghandian resistance given the
unparalelled success of Intifada1? Why does the Fatwa so easily dismiss the
power of the Uprising of the Stones in favor of giving a divine blessing to
atrocities that drive the dream of Palestinian statehood farther and farther
from reality?
Richard Clarke may be a
bastard but he's America's bastard.
Yes, that is the dilemma
Likudniks are facing. The more Palestinian territory they absorb, the more Arab
becomes the population. The deep, even profound, question Israel faces is
whether it can be a democracy with a population of Arabs in the majority.
In terms of the kind of
poisonous atmosphere that existed then ... [consider] all of the accusations,
questioning motives, and calculations during that time, when the attack was
launched in Afghanistan and Sudan, there was a movie out called Wag the Dog.
There were critics of the Clinton administration that attacked the president
saying this was an effort on his part to divert attention from his personal
difficulties.
That winter, in December of 1998, we decided to attack
Saddam Hussein. It was called Operation Desert Fox. It was a four-day operation
in which we launched a number of attacks upon his weapons of mass destruction
sites, his missile production facilities and killing a number of Republican
Guards and others.
I got a call the day that that operation was
launched. I received a call from Speaker [Newt] Gingrich and soon-to-be or
then-to-be Speaker [Robert] Livingston asking me to come up to Capitol Hill.
They said the House was in an uproar. There was a rage boiling in the House of
Representatives. [The attack] clearly had to be politically inspired.
I
was eager to go up to the Hill. I had not been in the House of Representatives
for 20 years and I walked that evening into the well of the House of
Representatives. There were almost 400 people there that night ... [T]hat Wag
the Dog cynicism that was so virulent there, I'm afraid is coming back again.
I guess.
The Washington Post reports today
that the two largest Iraqi militia groups--the Kurdish peshmerga and the Badr
Brigade of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI)--will
stand down. The devil is in the details here, but this is a massive development:
The Iraqis in control of these militias have accepted the principle of unified,
national armed forces. "We believe that all militia members should be part of
one national army and police force," said Hamid Bayati of SCIRI; Jalal Talabani
of the Patriotic Union Kurdistan (PUK) added, "We recognize the authority of the
central government." The coalition will attempt to incorporate militiamen into
the national forces or provide them with an alternative source of income. If
that fails, according to senior officials cited by the Post, the coalition will
confront them by force. That shows the CPA has learned the lessons of two great
mistakes of the occupation: first, that you can't expect militias to disarm by
proclaiming it so; second, that demobilization needs to include alternative
sources of income--as the disbanding of the Iraqi army last spring proved.
AlD: There certainly is, signed by Arafat. Did't he gewt the
Nobel Peace prize for that?
The Geneva Accords are a private
initiative by well-known Israeli and Palestinian peace advocates presented last
autumn. They were certainly not signed by Arafat.
voted for both Bushes and Reagan
That is not what he said; almost his exact words were, the last time
I voted in the Virginia primary I asked for a Republican ballot. I would bet he
voted for McCain, but we'll never know, and he never said in the hearings he
voted for Reagan. He might have said it elsewhere,
Nah. Brewer is an
opportunist, he's not getting into a fight he can't win. One of the archetypes
of the right-wing mind.
In deadly
correlation, calculated attacks aimed at derailing Iraq's transition to
democracy also gathered pace with the death of two more US soldiers and the
wounding of an Iraqi working for Time magazine.
Name: Michael Vann Johnson Jr.
Rank: Petty Officer 3rd
Class
Branch of Service: Navy
Age: 25
Hometown: Little Rock
State: AR
Date of Death: 03/25/03
The Post article, “Iraq Attacks Blamed
on Islamic Extremists,” contains the following revealing paragraph:
In
the intelligence operations room at the 1st Armored Division’s headquarters (in
Baghdad), wall-mounted charts identifying and linking insurgents depict the
changing battlefield. Last fall the organizational chart of Baathist fighters
and leaders stretched for 10 feet, while charts listing known Islamic radicals
took up a few pieces of paper. Now, the chart of Iraqi religious extremists
dominates the room, while the poster depicting Baathist activity has shrunk to
half of its previous size.
The article goes on to quote a U.S.
intelligence officer as adding, “There is no single organization that’s behind
all this. It’s far more decentralized than that.”
Welcome to Phase III.
The remaining Baathists will of course continue their War of National
Liberation, and Fourth Generation elements have been active from the outset. But
the situation map in the 1st Armored Division’s headquarters reveals the
“tipping point:” Fourth Generation war is now the dominant form of war against
the Americans in Iraq.
What are the implications of Phase III for
America’s attempts to create a stable, democratic Iraq?
It is safe to say that they are
not favorable
Ariel Sharon is the greatest ME threat to the US
"The cost of our mistakes ... with regard to the explanation of why we
went to war in Iraq are far greater than Iraq itself," David Kay said in a
speech at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government.
"We
are in grave danger of having destroyed our credibility internationally and
domestically with regard to warning about future events," he said. "The answer
is to admit you were wrong, and what I find most disturbing around Washington
... is the belief ... you can never admit you're wrong."
The comments by
Kay came as the White House sought to fend off accusations from its former
anti-terrorism czar, Richard Clarke, who said President Bush ignored the al
Qaeda threat before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and focused on Iraq rather than
the Islamic militant group afterward.
He cautioned the
intelligence community against jumping to premature conclusions, as it did in
Iraq. "One of the most dangerous things abroad in the world of intelligence
today actually came out of 9/11 ... the insistence of 'Why didn't you connect
the dots?' The dots were all there," he said.
"When we finally do the
sums on Iraq, what will turn out is that we simply didn't know what was going
on, but we connected the dots -- the dots from 1991 behavior were connected with
2000 behavior and 2003 behavior, and it became an explanation and a picture of
Iraq that simply didn't exist," Kay said.
Name: Evan T. James
Rank: Cpl.
Branch of Service: Marine Corps
Age: 20
Hometown: LaHarpe
State: IL
Date of Death: 03/24/03
The adminstrations stated reasons,aside from this one, have
all proven to be false. Three of them, the threat to the US, the collaboration
with al Qaeda, the nukes were all clearly false at the time of the invasion. The
one good argument the Bushies have is the brutality of the regime (we'll leave
aside the brutality of plenty of other regimes for now). If containment had
stopped that, then there was no reason for the precipitous, divisive, unilateral
invasion.
That's why it matters.
Are you intimating that Saddam would have stopped brutilizing his
people because of containment? Do you think containment could have gone on for
ever? Maybe we should put Saddam back in power. Would that make you happy?
Near Tikrit on Friday, four members of the U.S.-trained
Iraqi Civil Defense Corps and three suspected rebels died during a raid by Iraqi
security forces and U.S. soldiers, the U.S. military said. Twenty-one suspected
guerrillas were captured in the raid north of Baghdad.
Altogether, the
fighting and the raid killed 13 people.
Footage from Associated Press
Television News showed American troops in Fallujah carrying a comrade in a
stretcher shortly after an explosion during combat. The U.S. military in Baghdad
said one Marine died and several were wounded in the fighting in a city that has
resisted American efforts to pacify it since the ouster of Saddam Hussein (news
- web sites) a year ago.
Name: Michael E. Curtin
Rank: Spc.
Branch of Service:
Army
Age: 23
Hometown: Howell
State: NJ
Date of Death: 03/29/03
Juan Cole's review
of 2 books on Iraq, Toby Dodge's "Inventing "Iraq" and Anderson and Stansfield's
"The Future of Iraq", which appeared in The Nation last week, is now
online.
He is now concerned by the same thing happening now, the attempt to
place blame, which he considers a distraction on the goal of fighting terrorism.
I think his words should be taken seriously.
But one point he made bothers me, and that is the claim that it is
almost impossible to get someone on the ground to relay information in a country
such as Afganistan. How was it then possible for a young boy from Marin County,
Ca. able in infiltrate into UBL's al Qaida, and even to meet the great man
himself? I mean no critique here, I am just puzzled by that fact. It would have
been perfectly possible he had other motives than aiding al Qaida.
Not to be flip but are you suggesting
he was a envoy of this country, trying to reason with them or passing
intelligence from American powers?
He didn't seem overly bright to me.
I don't really want to engage you in conversation, because when
you see my name you have about the same reaction I had to another poster. All I
can say is learn to read, and let's ignore each other.
But I also believe, that even without the virulent (dare I
say unpatriotic?) attacks on Clinton that neither he nor Bush could have had
enough political capital to start a war against the Taliban. September 11th
galvinized the country, and the world. The Cole did not.
My criticism is
focused on the squandering of that capital and misdirection of resources away
from terroism and toward Iraq. My outrage is the administation's obviously false
conflation of those threats.
This a long held criticism that's been directed at
the CIA, rightly IMO. A former senior CIA official who was stationed in the
mideast made this criticism extensively in the Atlantic a few years ago. He said
that human intelligence cannot merely by gathered at embassy parties and lunches
with businessmen, and criticized the agency for being unwilling to accept
assignments the entailed years of bad food and diarrhea.
Two interesting excerpts:
"Humanitarian
intervention" cannot be ruled out a priori. But a decision to intervene in the
absence of strategic concerns should be understood for what it is. Humanitarian
problems are rarely only humanitarian problems; the taking of life or
withholding of food is almost always a political act. If the United States is
not prepared to address the underlying political conflict and to know whose side
it is on, the military may end up separating warring parties for an indefinite
period. Sometimes one party (or both) can come to see the United States as the
enemy. Because the military cannot, by definition, do anything decisive in these
"humanitarian" crises, the chances of misreading the situation and ending up in
very different circumstances are very high. This was essentially the problem of
"mission creep" in Somalia.
The president must remember that the
military is a special instrument. It is lethal, and it is meant to be. It is not
a civilian police force. It is not a political referee. And it is most certainly
not designed to build a civilian society. Military force is best used to support
clear political goals, whether limited, such as expelling Saddam from Kuwait, or
comprehensive, such as demanding the unconditional surrender of Japan and
Germany during World War II. It is one thing to have a limited political goal
and to fight decisively for it; it is quite another to apply military force
incrementally, hoping to find a political solution somewhere along the way. A
president entering these situations must ask whether decisive force is possible
and is likely to be effective and must know how and when to get out. These are
difficult criteria to meet, so U.S. intervention in these "humanitarian" crises
should be, at best, exceedingly rare.
As history marches toward markets and democracy,
some states have been left by the side of the road. Iraq is the prototype.
Saddam Hussein's regime is isolated, his conventional military power has been
severely weakened, his people live in poverty and terror, and he has no useful
place in international politics. He is therefore determined to develop WMD.
Nothing will change until Saddam is gone, so the United States must mobilize
whatever resources it can, including support from his opposition, to remove him.
Yes, and perhaps
death.
I have read only the first 500 words of Rice's article amd the above
you posted. While there is no mention of al Qaida or UBL in this article, that
is not to say she had no concern. She is straight about the need to remove
Saddam, a position you do not agree with, so it should surprise no one the Bush
administration had that as a goal. However, after 9/11 Bush concentrated
entirely on Afganistan and UBL and is still fighting that battle in ways we know
about and ways we might not.
I am reading Rumsfeld's War by Rowan Scarbrough. He tells about an
action in Somalia, where al Qaida was attemting to set up a terrorist training
camp with the help of Mohammed Farah Aidid in 2002. Because Bush felt in would
be best in this was handled by someone other than the U.S, he convinced Jordan
to handle the problem and Jordan sent a force into Somalia that killed the al
Qaida force. Now I don't think this made the front page of the N.Y. Times. Did
you know about it? I certainly did not.
That's the point of course.
Clarke is not saying much we didn't already know--that the Bushies lowered the
priority of fighting terrorism, and planned to pursue the removal of Saddam from
power instead. That getting Saddam was a particularly important foreign policy
goal to the administration, and they gave short shrift to the battle on
terrorism before 9/11. After 9/11 they successfully, with very little loss of
American soldiers and not much collateral damage, drove the Taliban out of
power, thereby depriving bin Laden access to the resources of a state. Then they
took their eye off the target and shifted to Iraq.
Moreover they falsely
used the 9/11 attacks and lied about intelligence to generate the political
capital to support the war. The one thing we have learned from Clarke's
testimiony is that Bush himself tried to direct answers he wanted to hear from
his intelligence apparatus. We've known for some time, from multiple sources
that the VP and the DoD were doing this, endrunning CIA vetting of sources.
(That's, in fact, one way to read Cheney's comment that Clarke was out of the
loop. He wasn't getting the crappy Chalabi intelligence DoD and Cheney was
getting.)
This phrase of Rice's is
also interesting, because she can't mean Iran when she mentions opposition, or
the al qaeda opposition on the ground in Kurdistan. She must be talking about
Chalabi.
As you may have noticed, none of this stuff panned out. And so
now they are left with strictly humanitarian claims that she sneers at in the
first excerpt--a claim that at the time was ancillary to the grave, growing,
urgent and immediate threat Saddam didn't actually turn out to represent.
Expanding on this
point, this is issue is at the center of their political crisis. They made a big
bet, that they would find chemical or biological to support the pretext they had
used to start the war. That would have glossed over the falsity of the other
claims--which was apparent from the public record after El Baredi and Blix
reporteed to the UN. And the one claim that wasn't transparently false--Iraq's
possession of CBW--was significantly weakened.
So they borrowed that
political capital, and now the bill is coming due.
Jay, this canard
has to be dropped. I know it's an effective line and a lie repeated over and
over gains curency for the uninformed, but you are not talking to the uninformed
in my case. I won't speak for others.
In order for what Bush claimed about WMD before the invasion to be a lie,
he would have had to have had absolute knowledge that those weapns did not
exist. If he knew that, he was far smarter than any other world leader, the
inspectors, all the Liberals who said we should not invade because Saddam would
use weapons WMD on our troops. You want to give him that much credit?
An aside, if I may. We have had one week or more of absolutely shitty
weather, so bad that I only played 9 holes of golf all week. So I decided to
cancel golf for today. What happens? I wake up to a day that if it isn't a 10 is
an 8+. But it is compensated by having a nice conversation with you.
Your claim of future acquisition is speculative. He certainly had not
acquired any kind of capability in the years when the inspectors were absent.
What we do know is that our retaliatory capable has deterred the use of
nuclear weapons by other states. They may not deter a terrorist, which is,
again, why the administration's policy has been so profoundly misplaced.
Stopping terrorists from getting a bomb doesn't involve Star Wars, is an
intelligence and diplomatic operation (both in stopping proliferation, and in
stopping terrorist acquisition). The president has taken his eye off the ball.
And, at some point in time you have to look at the facts on the
ground. And the facts are that the neocons were completely wrong in their
assessments.
In the Air Force
War College piece that jexster posted, and in the Kwiatkowski article, both
authors point out that this approach wasn't necessary. There are real reasons,
humanitarian, geo-political, military reasons for getting rid of Saddam. As I've
said before, the sanctions could be a permenant solution; they were harming the
population without harming Saddam. Those reasons would not have sold as well at
home, but they, partly by virtue of being true, could have been sold
internationally. It would have meant doing the hard diplomatic work his father
did the first time around. It would have taken longer. The inspectors could have
been given the additional six months they needed, and proved Saddam's impotence.
It might even have possible to do this bloodlessly, by just increasing
the pressure and making sure that he understood that the alternative was a war
he was certain to lose.
That is speculative, of course. But it seems to
me to be a more prudent course, rather than committing forces based on specious
reasons, and fracturing your relationships with your allies in the process.
This still isn't over. It is messy, and is probably going to remain
messy for awhile. The optimistic prospects seem to depend on al Sistani. It's
not good when you have to rely on what one man does and says to accomplish
something. To have some friends and supporters would be very helpful right now.
Instead, we're losing them.
should of course have
been:
As I've said before, the sanctions could not be a permanent
solution; they were harming the population without harming
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration's prewar claims that Saddam
Hussein had built a fleet of trucks and railroad cars to produce anthrax and
other deadly germs were based chiefly on information from a now-discredited
Iraqi defector code-named "Curveball," according to current and former
intelligence officials.
U.S. officials never had direct access to the
defector and didn't even know his real name until after the war. Instead, his
story was provided by German agents, and his file was so thick with details that
American officials thought it confirmed long-standing suspicions that the Iraqis
had developed mobile germ factories to evade arms inspections.
You don't let reality get in your way, do you.
Are you saying that we are better off diplomatically than we
were before. Or are you advocating isolationism?
And, no,
you are quite right, nobody has formally broken off diplomatic relations. Nobody
is helping us anywhere, either. If that's the bar you want to use, you're right.
And I can't imagine a movie that illustrates as
well as this one what it's like to be an American soldier today in Baghdad.
Highly Recommended!
You say you watched the hearings; did you see Cohen testify? Take my
word for it, he said exactly that.
BAGHDAD
-- With the turban of the clergy and the talk of a politician, Hashem Awadi, a
young Shiite Muslim cleric, thumbed through papers that described the latest
challenge to Washington's political blueprint for Iraq (news - web sites).
Here, the gaunt, 38-year-old said, was a leaflet that
enumerated the objections of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, the country's most
powerful cleric, to Iraq's interim constitution. This, he said, was the letter
the ayatollah sent to the United Nations (news - web sites) in protest. And
here, displayed proudly, was the petition denouncing that constitution in what
he said amounted to a "popular referendum."
"We want to make clear
the will of the people," said Awadi, who heads the Ghadir Foundation, a
religious institute in Baghdad that, by his count, has distributed as many as
10,000 of the petitions. "The people are burning."
In
the weeks since, the vast network of Shiite Muslim mosques, religious centers,
foundations and community organizations that make Sistani Iraq's most
influential figure has led a campaign to amend the constitution or discard it.
Posters have gone up at universities in Baghdad and elsewhere, leaflets have
circulated among prayer-goers and Sistani's cadres -- from young clerics to
devoted laymen -- have gathered tens of thousands of signatures on the
petitions. Demonstrations are next, they warn.
"This is freedom
...
Name one nation that has broken diplomatic relations with...Sweden?
Morrocco? Who in the hell is going to break relations with the most powerful
nation on the planet?
As a measure of international prestige or
power or alientation, diplomatic relations means nothing.
We are
more alienated now than we have been at any time since the US became a major
power in the late 19th Century.
From one corner of the globe to the other,
more people have taken to the streets of their countries to protest USG policies
than at any time previous, including Vietnam and the AntiNuke Demonstrations in
Europe. Public opinion in most countries has moved sharply against the US. We
are in fact losing allies, and moving, as a matter of conscious policy towards
ever greater isolation, coalitions of the bought who stand against the popular
will of their people. We have done more than Monet to unify Europe as a
competing power center. China takes our jobs, our dollars and thumbs its nose at
the US because it realizes that the end of US/Japanese dominance is at hand in
East Asia.
Russia has abandoned notions that it parlay US influence
into greater European presence and has stopped courting Bush's friendship. The
Secretary of State is a joke to most world leaders and his assurances on matters
of US foreign policy are ignored.
We have not been so weak or so
isolated in 100 years.
That's the whole point. Provide a link.
Take my word
for it, he said exactly that.
I don't distrust your word. I just
want to the words myself.
That we live in dangerous times is true enough
but we have seen far worse in the Modern Age. That we live in dangerous times
makes our present policies all the more reckless and our isolation all the more
pernicious.
No we aren't at war with Hamas. We aren't at war with the
Chechens. We aren't at war with ETA. We aren't actually at war with terror
because there is no such thing as a war against a tactic.
We are at War
with Al Qaeda and Wahabi jihadists of similar bent as are virtually every nation
on the planet.
Israel's war on the Palestinians is not our war. We are
honest peace brokers remember? We are not at war with Hamas. Israel is.
Conflated, confused thought and manipulative fearmongering is
exactly the problem. We are not fighting. We are flailing. Bush doesn't know who
his enemies are or where the front is.
Not a good way to wage "war".
There were
some strange-looking people in the street- heads covered in turbans, black and
white… women shrouded from top to bottom in black cloth… men with long beards
and abbayas. I was getting quite a few critical stares- why wasn't this girl
wearing a hijab? The rational person in me was asking the same question- why
aren't you wearing one? Is it too much to ask for you to throw something on top
of your head when you leave the house? Everyone else is doing it… most of the
women you know are just flinging on a head-cover to avoid those disapproving
glares and harsh words. Ever since the war, even some Christian women have been
pressured into hiding their hair- especially in the south. And on and on went
the rational voice… The stubborn voice- the one that blogs- tried to drown out
common sense with, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... we won't be
pressured..."
About two weeks ago, the world’s
attention suddenly turned to a dramatic battle in Pakistan. The Pakistani Army,
we were told, had trapped a large force of al Qaeda, including a “high-value
target,” possibly Ayman Zawahiri. The Pakis brought in artillery and air power.
The fate of the al Qaeda fighters was sealed.
Then the whole thing
evaporated into thin air.
What really happened? At this point, if anyone
knows they are not telling. But that is not the important question. The
important question is, what didn’t happen?
the forces of the state
of Pakistan did not win.
What does this failure mean? The Washington
Post quoted a retired Pakistani Army general as saying, “The state has to win
this battle or its credibility will be destroyed.” I suspect the general is
correct. In fact, I will go further: I think the failure of the Pakistani Army
to win this battle marks the beginning of the end for Pakistan’s current
President, General Musharraf. The defensive victory of the tribal fighters will
turn into an offensive victory, giving courage and a sense of inevitable victory
to Musharraf’s enemies while causing near-revolt in Musharraf’s base, the army
itself. Before the year is out, I suspect we will see General Musharraf’s head
impaled on a pike ....
At that point the American strategic failures
that are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will have transformed themselves into
an American strategic disaster. As I have said before in On War, Iraq and
Afghanistan themselves mean little. The centers of gravity in this war are
Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. What is important about the wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan is how they affect these other countries and their pro-American
governments.
Our friends in the Middle East have warned us that the
spillover effects are not likely to be positive. That has now proven to be the
case.
William Lind
Hezbollah has already been at war with the US. We "lost"
(Lebanon, 1980s). Neither Hezbollah nor Hamas operate outside the region. Hamas
does not deliberately target US nationals.
If the US government believed
and took preemptive action against every terrorist group on the basis of their
statements, we would be fighting half the world.
Knight
Ridder
In an uncommonly downbeat assessment of Iraq's security
challenges, U.S. Iraq administrator L. Paul Bremer told local officials Monday
that it will take at least a year for the country to hire, equip and train
enough police and border guards to meet its needs.
"There is no way
to speed it up; it simply can't be done," he said. "And it's going to take
another year. We just have to be honest about that."
>Iraq WMD Informant was an Outright Liar Whose Background and Identity
Bush Never Bothered to Check
"The mobile labs, since
exposed by weapons inspectors
as hydrogen production facilities at best and
phantoms at worst, were one of the centrepieces of Colin Powell's prewar address
to the United Nations. As recently as January, Dick Cheney maintained that
discovery
of the labs would provide 'conclusive' proof that Iraq possessed
WMD. A detailed investigation in the Los Angeles Times revealed that the source
claiming to have seen mobile bioweapons labs was the brother of one of the
senior aides to Ahmed Chalabi, the leader of the Iraqi National
Congress,
who recently boasted how the erroneous information provided by his group
achieved his long-cherished goal of toppling Saddam. The source, given the
unintentionally appropriate code name Curveball, was an
asset of German
intelligence and was never directly interviewed by US officials. The Pentagon
and the Central Intelligence Agency do not even know exactly who he is, the LA
Times reported.
Name: Donald J. Cline Jr.
Rank: Lance Cpl.
Branch of Service:
Marine Corps
Age: 21
Hometown: Sparks
State: NV
Date of Death:
03/23/03
And say, Al, any time you want to me to back up that assertion
with facts...
You just ask.
I'll be more than happy to oblige.
Name: Donald J. Cline Jr.
Rank: Lance Cpl.
Branch of Service:
Marine Corps
Age: 21
Hometown: Sparks
State: NV
Date of Death:
03/23/03
And say, Al, any time you want to me to back up that assertion
with facts...
You just ask.
I'll be more than happy to oblige.
Anyone got an Ouija board? Sheep entrails?
WASHINGTON
(Reuters) - The U.S. search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq will
continue despite the failure so far to find them but the mission will also
investigate whether Saddam Hussein intended to develop such weapons, the chief
U.S. arms hunter said on Tuesday.
"Ultimately what we want is a
comprehensive picture, not just simply answering questions -- were there
weapons, were there not weapons?" Charles Duelfer told reporters after briefing
the Senate Armed Services Committee behind closed doors.
"The hunt will
go on until we're able to draw a firm and confident picture of what the programs
were and where the regime was headed with respect to them. But we're looking at
it from soup to nuts -- from the weapons end to the planning end and to the
intentions end," he said.
I laughed.
Then another babbled
on about horses and Moslems or something
I laughed
Then yet
another pranced in to inform us that because the WarLord George's Imperial
Armies had entered Baghdad, peace in the Middle East was around the
corner...right there on a roadmap.
I laughed
"Rob Collier of the San Francisco Chronicle
examines the issues around the collapse of the Arab League summit that had been
planned for Tunis, asking if the "Greater Middle East" plan of the Bush
administration, which pushes democratization, is having any effect.
'
U.S. officials hoped that the summit would set the region on a path toward
Western-style free elections and free markets. But commentators in the United
States and the Middle East say the administration has instead made matters worse
by appearing to shove democracy down the throats of reluctant Arab leaders.
"The Greater Middle East Initiative is going nowhere fast," said Andrew
Apostolou, a Mideast analyst at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, a
conservative Washington think tank. "The problem is that Arab states are in no
mood to agree to any form of externally generated freedoms, and I see no way out
of this. I don't think the Bush administration has handled this well." '
I am quoted saying that I thought the war on terror and the invasion of
Iraq have if anything caused severe setbacks for civil liberties and
democratization in the region. Iraq's chaos is enough to scare anyone in the
region into thinking maybe a little authoritarianism is better, as long as you
don't have to worry about your kids being kidnapped or your mosque being blown
up.
I doubt the Bush administration has any credibility anywhere in
the region. That it is going to "reshape" anything when its HQ in Baghdad is
under routine rocket attack seems to me a little unlikely."
posted
by Juan Cole at 3/31/2004 -03:36:28 AM
I can never remember jokes.
War President
Morally Clear ONe
Son
of God
Prophet of the End Times
Compassionate Conservative
Big pile of Bullshit
Name: Brandon J. Rowe
Rank: Spc.
Branch of Service:
Army
Age: 20
Hometown: Roscoe
State: IL
Date of Death: 03/31/03
Of course I do.
To them I say, Bush is our problem, Saddam never was. Iraq never was,
but Iraq is.
Engage this you Morons 
An Iraqi watches a vehicle burn after an attack in the restive town
of Falluja, March 31, 2004. A crowd of cheering Iraqis dragged charred and
mutilated bodies through the streets of Falluja on Wednesday after an attack on
two vehicles that witnesses said killed at least three foreigners. The crowd set
the two four-wheel-drive vehicles ablaze after the attack and threw stones into
the burning wreckage. 
Zone in Baghdad March 31, 2004, while holding a poster of cleric
Moqtada Al-Sadr at rear, in response to the closure of the Al Hawza newspaper. A
crowd of cheering Iraqis dragged the charred and mutilated bodies of four
contractors working for the U.S.-led coalition through the streets of Falluja
Wednesday after they were killed in an ambush
They're about
to find out.
Hamza Hendawi of
AP reports on the implications of a Shiite-majority Iraqi government for Arab
world politics. He points to the Shiite majority in Bahrain (though the emir
there is a Sunni), and the substantial Shiite populations in Lebanon, Kuwait and
Saudi Arabia.
Hendawi notes that Shiites have no legal right to practice
their rituals publicly in Egypt. This fact is breathtaking. It would be as
though Protestants could not open a church and worship in Italy or Ireland.
Hendawi interviewed me and others for this piece:
Excerpt:
' " As Iraq's majority Shiites emerge from a history of brutal
repression under Saddam Hussein, free at last to speak their minds and practice
their religious rituals in public, experts are busy assessing the impact.
''Iraq seems to me now to be creating the first officially multicultural
country in the Arab world,'' said Juan R. Cole of the University of Michigan, a
prominent American expert on Iraqi Shiites.
''It will be the first Arab
country to have an elected Shiite majority in parliament ... if things work out
as planned,'' he said.
Sunni Arabs and Kurds, however, point to what
they see as sectarian behavior by some Shiite politicians. Shiites are divided
among themselves and lack a unified leadership. The more secular among them
worry that the clergy could turn Iraq into an Iranian-style theocracy. Iranian
clerical influence is already keenly felt in the Shiite south of Iraq.
''If the empowerment goes relatively smoothly and the Shiites handle
their new power and more significant role well, it can be a source of both the
reassertion of Iraqi Shiism's leadership role and a source of pride for many
Shiites, especially those in the Gulf,'' said John L. Esposito of Georgetown
University.
Iraq
will be Iraq and Bush will be gone
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) - In a scene reminiscent of Somalia, frenzied
crowds dragged the burned, mutilated bodies of four American contractors through
the streets of a town west of Baghdad on Wednesday and strung two of them up
from a bridge after rebels ambushed their SUVs.
Five U.S. soldiers of
the 1st Infantry Division also were killed when a bomb exploded under their
M-113 armored personnel carrier north of Fallujah, making it the bloodiest day
for Americans in Iraq since Jan. 8.
A few more of these scenes during America's dinner
time and this may start to make people reconsider. Sure, the word is it was
"insurgents"...I'm sure the families of those 9 people who were victims of such
a horrific end will appreciate knowing it was only insurgents.
Not likely.
The surviving loved ones can thank
George Bush before they pray for the souls of their recently departed
What have you done for your country lately Al?
Run for Waimea Canyon old
man...they're comin to git ya...hide there until I give you the all clear
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - About 50 ultra-nationalist Jews, some armed, moved
into an Arab neighborhood of east Jerusalem Wednesday, sparking clashes over
property.
This degree of hatred for the new order among ordinary people is very
bad news. It helps explain why so few of the Sunni Arab guerrillas have been
caught, since the locals hide and help them. It also seems a little unlikely
that further US military action can do anything practical to put down this
insurgency; most actions it could take would simply inflame the public against
them all the more.
On
Mayhem of Hearts and Minds
Welcome
to the Q'wagmire 
to maintain a prolonged foreign occupation of Iraq is to
destabilize it only further. Once the invader departs, there will no doubt be a
civil war, which will accelerate the dismemberment of the nation, giving rise to
a fundamentalist regime, which will make at least some people miss the era of
Saddam.
On the other hand, if the occupation persists, one can foresee a
multifaceted terrorist escalation eating away at U.S. forces and
aggravating ethnic and religious divisions. The Americans will bring in
reinforcements, including Fijians and Norwegians. They'll talk of the final
fifteen minutes and of last gasps. A coup d'etat or uprising will be inspired in
Teheran (terrain more favorable to the West than Iraq is) but with irritating
repercussions in Najaf, which will be transformed into a base of retreat for
vengeful ayatollahs. The Americans will cling to Iraq as "useful" and ensconce
themselves inside supposedly unbreachable bastions. Then, as the death toll
mounts by the hundreds, the "bring the boys home" movement will spread like an
oil slick across the United States, and a new, Democratic administration will
make the prudent decision to stop the hemorrhaging when the vital interests of
the United States are not at stake. But how many lives will be ruined in the
meantime?
But they will soon...count on it
Reports are that US troops are pulling back into fortified positions
leaving Iraqis to die
Eight
photographs of the Fallujah attack, including the corpses being dragged in the
streets and hanging from a bridge, were transmitted Wednesday by The Associated
Press with an advisory to editors to "Note graphic content."
"The question is NOT whether Iraq
is better off, it is whether WE are better off"
That has ALWAYS been
the question and it doesn't take 20/20 hindsight to answer it either.
Does it?
And morale among the regulars is none too
high. And they can plan on being back again in another six months to a year.
I guess it's rose petals or nothing.
Now that we are there, however, we cannot just
leave. Leaving aside the damage to the U.S., Iraq is not close to ready to rule
itself, however much self-interested segments of Iraqi society may claim
otherwise.
I don't know. What Kerry should be able to do is get the UN and
our allies that can contribute significant manpower involved. Iraq democratizing
under a UN mandate with US and allied troops restoring and maintaining
order--and training Iraqi security forces-seems much better than going alone, or
pulling out under some fig-leaf arrangement so that Iraq can collapse into
anarchy shortly afterwards.
What Kerry can do, is assure the military,
veterans, and their families, that troops in Iraq will be sufficient in numbers,
will be appropriately trained and equipped, and will get whatever care is needed
when they return. Kerry, after all has been there, unlike the current
administration.
"We will impose
our will on iraq" Viceroy Bremmer June 2003
Hold that paper
tiger....we're fucked
Bush lies
veterans' brains fry
Its all a giant scam
on the American people
Jex, this hasn't, yet, been as brutal on the guys who are
serving as Vietnam was. The soldiers are volunteers, and professionals, not
conscripts. Wombat's comment about the increasing use of the reserves takes out
some of that point, but it's still the case that this is not VietNam.
Then the
self-medication begins
Read the latest from Cato Institute scholars on the war with and occupation
of Iraq.
So's ours nitwit
Here are some important details that may
have been buried in the deluge of media coverage of the brutal killings.
To begin with, here is an AFP
story that contradicts the constantly reiterated claim that Fallujah is pro-
Saddam territory. AFP reports,"Fallujah and the rest of Al-Anbar province
are ruled by Sunni conservative tribes who have traditionally resisted
submission to foreign occupiers or government forces seeking to control the area
by force. Under Saddam, imams across the town refused to abide by his orders to
praise him personally during daily prayers."
The four contractors killed
by street mobs – and not a handful of terrorists, as the White House would like
to pretend – were employees of a subsidiary of Blackwater USA, a firm in charge
of recruiting
for-hire security forces.
As this San
Francisco Chronicle article reveals, the lives of corporate employees are
just expendable as those of soldiers, except these men were sacrificed to
protect the bottom line....
Fred Kaplan points out that the administration's
policy is vacuous. Can you propose one of substance? Can you get them to follow
it?
Children joined in as jubilant
crowds played with the charred bodies, dragging them like trophies through the
streets of a town overwhelmed by hatred for the occupying forces.
Those who participated in the brutality may represent just a tiny
minority of Iraqis, but across the country anti-American voices are getting
louder and more insistent.
"There's an increasing feeling of
anti-Americanism definitely," said Paola Gasparoli of Occupation Watch, an
independent organization that monitors the occupation.
"It's like
all their hopes were destroyed. Families who had some hope the Americans would
help Iraq (news - web sites) now have sons who were killed or arrested, houses
destroyed. This hope has died."
Let em grow up
A Palestinian American told me
with Kaplan that Iraq had turned into our West Bank and Gaza ....the only
question is will it turn into our Lebanon.
4287. jexster -
4/2/2004 12:19:46 PM
But this is not some earth shattering insight. A
friend and I were talking last February..
"Well it won't be like
Vietnam"
"No it'll be either like the West Bank or Lebanon..Bush should
be grateful that Arabs aren't mean nasty hard bastards like the Vietnamese"
That is damnedest thing about this mess...EVERYTHING was forseen...all
of it...none of it is a surprise.
We hear in the 9/11 "20/20 hindsight"
ad nauseum....You cannot say that about Iraq. Not about ANYTHING that has
happened.
Can you imaginel if Bush had not sidetracked the Iraq
Lies investigation, tommorrow's testimony of Paul Wolfowitz, "
well we
certainly had every reason to expect flowers and candy and with 20/20 hindsight
blah blah blah..."
"How could we know that"
Security
forces behind barricades
Iraqi security forces in Falluja scared half
to death after brutal killings
An Iraqi
defector nicknamed Curveball who wrongly claimed that Saddam Hussein had mobile
chemical weapons factories was last night at the centre of a bitter row between
the CIA and Germany's intelligence agency.
German officials said that
they had warned American colleagues well before the Iraq war that Curveball's
information was not credible - but the warning was ignored.
It was the
Iraqi defector's testimony that led the Bush administration to claim that Saddam
had built a fleet of trucks and railway wagons to produce anthrax and other
deadly germs.
The revelation is embarrassing for the Bush administration
and appears to bolster the contention that it used dubious intelligence in a
partisan manner in the critical few weeks before the invasion of Iraq.
It has now emerged that Curveball is the brother of a top aide of Ahmad
Chalabi, the pro-western Iraqi former exile with links to the Pentagon
"Well that's easy to say now with 20/20 hindsight"
guffaw guffaw
Operation Weed the Garden..Garten???
There is increasing evidence that the brutal attack
on the American security guards in Fallujah, and the desecration of their
bodies, was the work of Islamists seeking vengeance for the Israeli murder of
Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Leaflets found at the scene said the operation
was in the name of Yassin. al-Hayat reports in its Friday edition that
responsibility for the attack has been taken by a group called Phalanges of
Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. The group said the deaths were a "gift to the Palestinian
people."
A Disastrous 'Pacification'
Name: George A. Fernandez
Rank: Master Sgt.
Branch of Service:
Army
Age: 36
Hometown: El Paso
State: TX
Date of Death: 04/02/03
Sorry, but I don't believe this kind of thing is
really worthy of a special sidebar blurb.
Maybe if he had got some of that Thanksgiving turkey
Whistle-Ass was offering he would feel differently.
Oh, wait. The turkey
was phony too.
Well, now that I've complained, Jay will probably make
sure it stays. My objection is that it's really just low grade semi-news - the
worst month in less than half a year is almost yawn-inducing stuff.
As Glinda says "Rubbish. You have no power here. Begone before
someone drops a house on you."
I useta have power. I never exercised it.
Now I have none, other than hosting privileges and I seldom exercise those.
You gotta get out more, concerned. Look at that blue sky. Get out of
that basement. Engage the world.
And then Ariel Sharon sends US-made helicopter gunships to
Gaza and has them fire missiles at people coming out of a mosque, killing 8 and
wounding 24. One of the dead is a half-blind paraplegic Islamist named Sheikh
Yassin. He could have easily been arrested, and had been in the 1990s. But he
was incinerated in a piece of state terror instead.
And all of a sudden
the people of Fallujah in Iraq are pointing their fingers at the American troops
and saying, 'you did this. You gave Sharon the green light.' And all the
commander's hard work in building bridges collapses over night. And four US
security personnel are dead, and 5 US troops are dead, and the fighting flares
up.
Thanks, Prime Minister Sharon. Thank you very much. Juan Cole
Sorry, but I don't believe this kind of thing is really worthy
of a special sidebar blurb.
Of course you don't.
Its
perfectly understandable.
Lies have consequences and liars would prefer
they not face those consequences.
Name: Christian D. Gurtner
Rank: Pfc.
Branch of
Service: Marine Corps
Age: 19
Hometown: Ohio City
State: OH
Date
of Death: 04/02/03
Name: Brian E. Anderson
Rank: Lance Cpl.
Branch of
Service: Marine Corps
Age: 26
Hometown: Durham
State: NC
Date of
Death: 04/02/03
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell voiced
new doubt yesterday on the administration's assertions of weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq, saying the description in his U.N. presentation of mobile
biological weapons laboratories appears to have been based on faulty sources.
Powell, describing the mobile labs as "the most dramatic"
element of his Feb. 5, 2003, speech before the U.N. Security Council, said he
hoped the recently appointed commission to examine prewar claims of Iraqi
weapons "will look into these matters to see whether or not the intelligence
agency had a basis for the confidence . . . placed in the intelligence at that
time." He also said he has spoken to CIA officials about how suspect information
ended up in his speech.
Stay Tuned for the next Episode of
Operation Weed the Garten 
Nice time to break the story: the wee hours of a Friday morning. Sons of
bitches.
Tenet at his Georgetown speech in February said pretty
much the same thing.
Now Powell who probably won't be around next year
is waving the red flag at the McCain Bull saying "We need to get to the bottom
of why I lied"
Now at the bottom of all of it...three guesses.
Payback hits close to home.
Name: Tristan N. Aitken
Rank: Capt.
Branch of
Service: Army
Age: 31
Hometown: State College
State: PA
Date of
Death: 04/04/03
Marine Cpl. Mark Evnin 
May he rest in peace.
(AP)--The American military death
toll in Iraq rose to 600 Sunday with the report of two Marines killed in
dangerous Anbar province.
The U.S. Department of Defense's Web site had
listed 598 deaths as of Friday.
BAGHDAD, April 4
— Iraq was wracked today by its most violent civil disturbances since the
occupation started, with a coordinated Shiite uprising spreading across the
country, from the slums of Baghdad to several cities in the south.
By
day's end, witnesses said Shiite militiamen controlled the city of Kufa, south
of Baghdad, with armed men loyal to a radical cleric occupying the town's police
stations and checkpoints. More than eight people were killed by Spanish forces
in a similar uprising in the neighboring town of Najaf.
In Baghdad,
American tanks battled militiamen loyal to Moqtada Al Sadr, the radical cleric
who has denounced the occupation.
.................................................
As the fighting
raged, Mr. Sadr called on his followers to "terrorize" the enemy as
demonstrations were no longer any use. Last week, his weekly newspaper, Hawza,
was shut down by American authorities after it had been accused of inciting
violence. The closure began a week of protests that grew bigger and more unruly
at each turn.
.......................................
What do we
do now,Daddy?
Asked whether the
transfer of power is coming too soon, Lugar said, "It may be, and I think it's
probably time to have that debate."
Lugar said there are still far
too many questions about what will happen after June 30.
He said the
administration has shared no plans with his committee regarding an ambassador,
who the 3,000 embassy staff will be, and how they will be kept safe.
"This is a huge new exposure of Americans," Lugar told ABC's "This
Week."
He added, "At this point, I would have thought there would
have been a more comprehensive plan."
Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden,
the top Democrat on the committee, echoed Lugar's concerns about the
administration's post-occupation plans.
Operation Weed the Garten is underway
Name: Wilfred D. Bellard
Rank: Pfc.
Branch of
Service: Army
Age: 20
Hometown: Lake Charles
State: LA
Date of
Death: 04/04/03
Apri 4, 2004
Shiite Clashes in with Coalition in Najaf
Baghdad: Phase II of the Anti-Occupation Struggle Begins
BAGHDAD,
Iraq (AP) -- Seven U.S. soldiers were killed Sunday in fighting with Shiite
militiamen in the Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, the U.S. military said. At
least 24 other American troops were wounded, the military said in a written
statement.
Elsewhere Sunday, supporters of an anti-U.S. Shiite Muslim
cleric waged violent demonstrations in four Iraqi cities, punctuated by a gun
battle at the Spanish garrison near this Shiite holy city that killed at least
20 people, including two coalition soldiers -- an American and a Salvadoran.
The U.S. military also reported two Marines were killed in a
separate ``enemy action'' in Anbar province.
Serious readers who want a background on the Sadr Movement should see
my article, "The
United States and Shi`ite Factions in Post-Baath Iraq" in The Middle East
Journal. Volume 57, Number 4, Autumn 2003, pp. 543-566.
posted by Juan
Cole at 4/4/2004 05:25:05 PM
Scene today in Najaf
Shia's Kill US Troops in Baghdad
Let's Make
Enemies!
Taken together, these latest measures paint a telling picture of what a
"free Iraq" will look like: The United States will maintain its military and
corporate presence through fourteen enduring military bases and the largest US
Embassy in the world. It will hold on to authority over Iraq's armed forces, its
security and economic policy and the design of its core infrastructure--but the
Iraqis can deal with their decrepit hospitals all by themselves, complete with
their chronic drug shortages and lack of the most basic sanitation capacity. (US
Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson revealed just how low a
priority this was when he commented that Iraq's hospitals would be fixed if the
Iraqis "just washed their hands and cleaned the crap off the walls.")
In a signed statement,
Muqtada al-Sadr demanded coalition forces stop attacks Iraqis and cease arrests
of those suspected of involvement in the worsening insurgency inside Iraq (news
- web sites).
"They (the U.S.-led forces) have the money, weapons
and huge numbers, but these things are not going to weaken our will because God
is with us," according to the statement, which was sent to The Associated Press
by the Qatar-based satellite TV station al-Jazeera.
"Tell them
(coalition forces) that we don't fear death and martyrdom gives us dignity from
God," the statement said.
Dan Senor in a briefing in Baghdad
on Monday revealed that an arrest warrant had been issued months ago "by an
Iraqi judge" and implied that it would now be served.
US television
cable news is doing its best to obscure the real issues here.
1. They
keep asking where Muqtada is and calling him a "fugitive." Muqtada announced
that he is in his father's mosque in Kufa, and there is no reason to doubt this.
He hasn't fled and his whereabouts are well known.
2. Talking heads both
from Iraq and from the ranks of the US retired officers keep attempting to
maintain that Muqtada's movement is small and marginal. One speaker claimed that
Muqtada has only 10,000 men.
In fact that is the size of his formal
militia. Muqtada's movement is like the layers of an onion. You have 10,000
militiamen. But then you have tens of thousands of cadres able to mobilize
neighborhoods. Then you have hundreds of thousands of Sadrists, followers of
Muqtada and other heirs of Muhammad Sadiq al-Sadr. Then you have maybe 5 million
Shiite theocrats who sympathize with Muqtada's goals and rhetoric, about a third
of the Shiite community. The Sadrists will now try to shift everything so that
the 5 million become followers, the hundreds of thousands become cadres, and the
tens of thousands become militiamen.
Paging General Shinseki (US Army, fired)!
An Index:
The
invasion of Iraq will cause, not prevent, terrorism.
The Bush
administration was not to be trusted when it warned of the WMD threat.
Going in without the U.N. is worse than not going in at all.
They were asleep at the switch pre-9/11 and have been trying to cover
this up ever since.
And they manipulated 9/11 as a pretext for a
long-planned invasion of Iraq.
Any occupation by a foreign power,
particularly one as incompetently planned as this one, will likely create more
enemies than friends and put the U.S. in a situation similar at times to
Vietnam, and at other times, similar to Israel’s occupation of Lebanon; both
were disasters.
An invasion of Iraq will draw resources and attention
away from the genuine perpetrators of the attack on us, and allow them to
regroup for further attacks.
Bonus: Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the
Christ” will increase anti-Semitism worldwide.
WASHINGTON
(AP) -- U.S. military commanders have begun studying ways they might increase
troops in Iraq should violence spread much more widely, a senior officer said
Monday.
Generals believe they have enough forces to handle the attacks
that have been coming from various quarters, including the recent violence by a
Shiite militia group, but they want to know what is available if the situation
gets worse, said the officer, briefing reporters on condition of anonymity.
BTW: CBS led its evening news with this story.
BAGHDAD
(Reuters) - U.S. authorities in Iraq announced Monday that an arrest warrant was
out for a radical Shi'ite Muslim cleric leading violent anti-American protests,
but his followers swore to fight back if he was arrested.
................................................
"There's no way
Sayyid Moqtada will turn himself in," said a Sadr supporter outside the group's
office in the Baghdad slum district of Sadr City. "If the Americans try to
arrest him, we will all explode," said the man, who gave his name as Haider.
A leading cleric on the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council said
Monday that Sadr had refused a request from the Shi'ite religious establishment
to renounce violence.
Senators Richard Lugar (R, Indiana) and
Joe Biden (D, Delaware), chairman and ranking member, respectively, of the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee, did an amazing tag-team number on the
bushies tonight on the PBS News Hour: "indecision, no plan for success..."
Brutal, bi-partisan criticism, in my view.
Host Jim Lehrer, a former
marine, if you didn't know, let them run. And run they did.
See it if
you can or look for a transcript.
Just in time for a long hot summer
The Americans seem to have gotten
themselves into an intractable mess in Iraq. They must now choose between a
historical debacle if they hang on and a temporary setback if they let go.
"We cannot leave Iraq before it is stabilized," declared a former CIA
officer. But to maintain a prolonged foreign occupation of Iraq is to
destabilize it only further. Once the invader departs, there will no doubt be a
civil war, which will accelerate the dismemberment of the nation, giving rise to
a fundamentalist regime, which will make at least some people miss the era of
Saddam. Regis Debray, September 2003, Figaro
It created
a lose-lose scenario. We're seeing one of them now. Radical elements of Sunnis
and Shi-ites are trying to position themselves in the post deadline scenario.
This was not a difficult result to anticipate. It's hard not to conclude
that the date was election-driven.
The whole damned mess was election driven.
That little shit
who calls himself president knew a "trifecta" when he saw one...
Cut a
fat hog with the help of his Moronic Legion of Adolescent Power Rangers
Name: Kelley S. Prewitt
Rank: Pvt.
Branch of Service:
Army
Age: 24
Hometown: Birmingham
State: AL
Date of Death:
04/06/03
Upsurge in attacks on US-led occupying force
continues.
6590. concerned - 4/6/2003 6:22:02 AM
More
weapons of mass destruction found.
Something more for the whacked
out Lefties who will accept no evidence whatsoever that Saddam has violated UN
resolutions regarding WMD to attempt to explain away.
6592. magoseph
- 4/6/2003 10:27:02 AM
Colin Powell is known to favour a military
government established after victory is assured, prepared to nurture an Iraqi
government centred around citizens resident in Iraq, rather than exiles
sponsored by neo-conservatives in the Pentagon.
I agree with Powel,
concerned. What about you?
6599. Ronski - 4/6/2003 5:13:21 PM
Warblogger Steven den Beste has a good analysis of why the encircling of
Basra and Baghdad are not sieges in the classical sense, and why the U.S. and
British techniques are smart, outwitting the enemy's plans, and likely to
succeeed.
Here.
6604.
RickNelson - 4/6/2003 7:26:45 PM
Whether Iraq was perceived as U.S.
friendly or not in the 80's I will ignore. That's irrelevant to my point. What's
relevant to my view is that we had to get back at Iran so anything goes.
Playground revenge.
6606. robertjayb - 4/6/2003 11:59:31 PM
Make
way for the Carlyle Group...
LISBON--Top of the meeting’s agenda is
expected to be the company’s involvement in the rebuilding of Baghdad’s
infrastructure after the cessation of current hostilities. Along with several
other US companies, the Carlyle Group is expected to be awarded a billion dollar
contract by the US Government to help in the redevelopment of airfields and
urban areas destroyed by Coalition aerial bombardments.
Bremer is deliberately pushing Iraq's
Shia south into all-out chaos.
Practice to Deceive
Chaos in the Middle East is not the
Bush hawks' nightmare scenario--it's their plan April 2003
Could it be?
Is the Ace of Spades bloggin in Baghdad?
With the
Marines engaged in fighting around Fallujah, there was more violence in northern
Baghdad in which three soldiers died Monday and Tuesday.
The
U.S.-led coalition remained in a standoff with anti-American cleric Muqtada
al-Sadr, whose supporters and militias were responsible for clashes throughout
the country over the weekend.
In a series of U.S. television
interviews Tuesday, L. Paul Bremer, the top civilian administrator in Iraq,
conceded not all was going smoothly as the coalition approached a June 30
handover of sovereignty to the Iraqis.
Name: Anthony S. Miller
Rank: Pfc.
Branch of Service:
Army
Age: 19
Hometown: San Antonio
State: TX
Date of Death:
04/07/03
"As
soon as we came into the city, it's like the
whole place came alive with fire,"
Apr 6, 2004 5:19 am (#1292 of
1303)
Sadrist control in Nasariyah is growing. They are basically in control
of Najaf now.
It's really hard to see a good endgame at this point. Now the
Kurds are gonna have to start making sure they don't lose their gains. And the
Shi-ites who essentially bet on the US following through on its promises are
going to end up discredited.
Thanks, prof. That was a nice suggestion
from Banks, and I'm glad you are following up.
It's positive that Saddam and his bloody regime
is gone, but when one weighs the costs, it's clearly the negative aspects that
dominate," Blix told daily Jyllands-Posten in an interview.
The post Prof snippeted was very interesting. For those
who don't know, the poster named Spark at Random International works in Iraq.
She's an American, by the way.
Here's a fuller version of her comments,
which are more than a little scary.
While I'm obviously no fan of
al-Sadr, I don't agree with the decision to close the newspaper. It didn't make
direct calls for violence. The CPA's reasoning is that it printed false
information that could possibly incite violence--but honestly, this describes
several newspapers in Iraq. Coalition responses are confused and worrying. No
one likes hearing about Apaches over Sadr City. I'm worried also about how the
arrest warrant will be handled. I have a strong feeling it will be with an
assassination.
FYI, here are the contents of al-Sadr's fatwa:
*
Saddam should be tried in a Shia Court
* The Coalition should stop arresting
"honest Iraqis."
* The Coalition should free its prisoners (including
Saddam, I wonder??)
* The Iraqi People should form a government independent
of the Coalition
* The Iraqi People should "expose the crimes" of the
Coalition
* The Iraqi People should force the Coalition to leave Iraq
Meanwhile, back in Fallujah...The Marines are in
with "Operation Vigilant Resolve." (Someday I will start "Operation End Cheesy,
Cliched Operation Names"). This is the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force--the guys
who took Baghdad last spring. They have different rules of engagement from the
Army. (Basically, the don't need to be shot at first). So, we've basically got
the CF fighting a two-front war and the potential for hell to break even further
loose.
AGENT:Ahmed
EPISODE:Appointment in Sahara
DUTIES:
Bedouin trader and operator of KAOS' nuclear missles
a brief report I got this morning
from a friend working as a private security consultant in Iraq (but not for the
CPA), who we should be hearing more from in the coming days ...
Hey Josh
... thanks for the concern . I wrote the other day but power went out. This
place is HOT! I am driving with max Iraqi bodyguards (whom I have just finished
training), max weapons and max bodyarmor. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING with this
Moqtada Sadr thing? Were they just bored with Fallujah. The place is a hornets
nest now. Armor is all over the streets but doesn't seem to have disrupted most
city life ... I told [a reporter] two weeks ago we were "one massacre away from
the second Intifada of Iraq." Well I think we are there now.
More soon.
-- Josh Marshall
WASHINGTON -
(AP)-- Up to a dozen Marines were reported killed in new fighting in Iraq (news
- web sites), the Pentagon (news - web sites) said Tuesday.
Reports from the field said dozens of Iraqis
attacked a Marine position near the governor's palace in Ramadi, a senior
defense official said.
"A significant number" of Marines were
killed, and initial reports indicated it might be up to a dozen, said the
official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
Heavy casualties were
inflicted on the insurgents as well, officials said.
But "June 30, no matter what" is looking increasingly
like "I don't care what the whip count is. We're going to make them show their
cards."
Which is, net, probably a good thing. The June 30 was stupid,
and, imo, encouraged the stuff that's happening now. Factions want to lay out
their stakes before the keys are handed over to .....who?
So, setting aside why we're in
Iraq, how we go there, whether we should have gone in in the first place, where
are we now? Where do you see our position right now?
WILSON: Well, I
think we're fucked 
The head of the al-Quds Center for Political
Studies in Jordan, Uraib el-Rantawi, says the coalition should be very careful
in dealing with Mr. al-Sadr, in part because he has strong Shi'ite religious
connections outside of Iraq.
"He has a very good connection with the Iranian
clerics, especially Ayatollah Hahari," he said. "He is one of the most leading
clerics among the Iranian regime. Moqtada al-Sadr, from the early beginning,
tried to put himself in a certain manner in order to be a legitimate
representative of the Shi'ite people in Iraq.
"And, he is trying to take
the example from what happened in Lebanon with the leadership of Hezbollah and
Sheikh Ahmed Yassin of Hamas in Palestine," continued Mr. el-Rantawi. "And, I
think it is very, very dangerous to underestimate his role in the Iraqi Shi'ite
population and in the region."
One of the most recent U.S. casualties in the war in Iraq
(news - web sites) was a 24-year-old Bay Area man.
Army
Specialist Casey Sheehan of Vacaville died over the weekend when the vehicle he
was riding in was attacked in Baghdad. He had been in the country less than two
weeks.
"He just wanted to go over to fight for his country, and
serve his country," said Sheehan's mother Cindy Sheehan.
.
"I
told them, 'My son has only been gone in Iraq for two weeks. This has to be a
mistake,'" Patrick Sheehan said. "They just said, 'Please, Mr. Sheehan, let us
in. We have to come in and talk to you.'"
Casey Sheehan graduated
from Vacaville High School with honors. He was an Eagle Scout, and his family
said he loved the Catholic Church from an early age.
"He died on
Palm Sunday, and it's very fitting because he was so faithful. He went to Mass
every Sunday," Cindy Sheehan said. "The last time I talked to him he called me
from Kuwait and he was on his way to church."
Sister Carly Sheehan
said, "I was thinking about my brother today, and I have never, never heard him
utter one bad word about anybody. He loved everybody he came in contact with and
cared about everybody. He would stay up at night worrying about the world. From
the time he was little, my mom would find him awake at night. He couldn't sleep
because he was too worried about the world. He just wanted to take care of the
world, and he gave his life for it."
At the cross her station
keeping,
stood the mournful mother weeping,
close to Jesus at the last,
Through her soul, of joy bereavèd,
bowed with anguish, deeply grievèd,
now at length the sword hath passed.
But publicly there is no evidence that
the policy makers recognize they need to do something drastic--that tossing the
keys onto the central square of Baghdad on June 30 is not a policy.
This
is a Bushie pattern. Deny, deny, deny until you are so deeply fucked you have to
admit it. Then claim you never denied it. Or that the reversal isn't really a
reversal.
But, man, this is bad. The Kurds haven't reacted yet, but they
have to be thinking about Kirkuk in an environment where there is no central
government.
Apr 7, 2004 1:39 am (#1309 of 1314)
Looks like
things will become much worse before they become better. If they ever become
better.
This is a certainty. You all may be right, esp if my only
option is to move to Baghdad. Of course, I have very conflicted emotions about
the idea of leaving. And I do retain hope about Kurdistan. (At the market
yesterday I was looking at Kurdish flag lapel pins. My co-worker said, very
earnestly and sincerely, "Spark, as a Kurdish woman, please, let me buy this for
you!")
Al-Sadr is reaching out to Sistani. An interesting gamble, though
the odds are probably in his favor. If Sistani rejects the overtures, popular
support for the militias might start to fade, and Sadr will be back where he
started. But if Sistani gives his support or forms some sort of alliance, well,
we can all imagine what will happen next. I have no idea how he will respond.
The two don't communicate, but al-Jazeera is reporting that they will meet
today.
There are some key dates coming--tomorrow is the anniversary of
al-Sadr's father's death, and the next day is the anniversary of the
"liberation." Many people (and basically all foreigners) are hunkering down...
"We've got tough work there because, you
see, there are terrorists there who would rather kill innocent people than allow
for the advance of freedom," he said. "That's what you're seeing going on: These
people hate freedom, and we love freedom, and that's where the clash occurs."
Bush repeated the vow he made Monday to meet the June 30 deadline,
acknowledging that "it's going to take a while for them to understand what
freedom is all about."
it's scary. Is there anybody driving
this train? Is every single incident in Iraq an opportunity to say "terrorism"
again?
"We are not fighting on two fronts. There
is only one front - the country of Iraq"
Whew! And here I thought it
was serious
The
Second Front: Multi-City Sadrist Uprising Continues
The
difficulty the United States and its allies are having in regaining control of
the major cities of the Shiite south is breathtaking in its implications. There
is little doubt that they can prevail eventually in a military sense. But if the
Sadrist uprising were a minor affair of a few thousand ragtag militiamen, it is
difficult to understand how they could survive the onslaught of 150,000
well-armed and well-trained European and North American troops for more than a
day. Rather, it is clear that urban crowds are supporting the uprising in some
numbers.
Even when the Coalition puts the uprising down, it may well
incur the wrath of many persons who had earlier viewed it with favor....
And if the US cannot control Iraq now, when it has its hands directly on
all the levers of power, how will it do so in the coming year, as it loses its
grip on those levers?
The tired CPA refrain that lots of schools have
been painted and the markets are bustling is shockingly inept even as
propaganda. I lived in Beirut in the early years of the civil war there. I'd
like to report that people shop during wars and heavy civil disturbances. The
economy does not disappear in such situations...
But major fighting
in most Shiiite urban areas is unambiguous in its significance. It means that
the Bush administration rule of Iraq is FUBAR.
It seems inevitable to me
that the US military will pursue a war to the death with the Army of the Mahdi,
the Sadrist movement, and Muqtada al-Sadr himself.
The United States has
managed to create a failed state, similar to Somalia and Haiti, in Iraq.
Let's look at the major battles on Tuesday:
Reuters reports that Sunni guerrillas
killed 12 Marines and wounded two dozen on Tuesday near Ramadi in the rebellious
Anbar province. The attackers at Ramadi were, by the way, certainly Sunnis.
According to some press reports, some Coalition officials have tried to say that
they were Muqtada al-Sadr's Army of the Mahdi, but this is disinformation aimed
at whipping up public support for the ill-considered US frontal attack on
Muqtada and his movement. Although Iraqi nationalism is strong enough to explain
the appearance of pro-Muqtada posters in Anbar province on Tuesday, there is
zero probability that Shiite militias are operating freely there or that the
ragtag Army of the Mahdi could take out 12 seasoned Marines! This was the work
of Sunni ex-Baath army units.
Meanwhile, Reuters reports that fighting
in Fallujah killed 36 civilians Monday-Tuesday, including 25 who perished when a
US missile hit a house.
posted by Juan Cole at 4/7/2004 11:17:54
AM
I don't know if Safire can
be read as a proxy for the Bush administration, but my eyes widen when he says
But we must impress on the minds of millions of Shiites that there is
no free ride to freedom. We should keep the heat on Shiite ditherers by holding
fast to the June 30 deadline for the delivery of sovereignty to Iraq's three
groups. It's less about the U.S. election than demanding that Iraqi leaders and
U.N. facilitators live up to their promises.
(OK, so it's
partly about US elections... noted...) but DEMANDING that UN facilitators
live up to their PROMISES...
That sounds like a "Well if you're so
smart, Mister UN, YOU deal with it! I'm going home!" exit strategy.
BAGHDAD, April 6 -- On the streets of Baghdad neighborhoods long
defined by differences of faith and politics, signs are emerging that resistance
to the U.S. occupation may be growing from a sporadic, underground effort to a
broader insurrection by militiamen who claim to be fighting in the name of their
common faith, Islam.
Muslim Rivals in Baghdad Unite in Uprising
And they are terrified...if John Fund is any indication they
certainly are...they are variously trying to minimize the situation's
seriousness and maximize its signficance.
Fund's performance in a
"debate" with John Cirincionne of the Carnegie Institute was a thing to
behold...the latter didn't even bother answering his point - "We can clean this
up in short order and march on our way to Bush's glorious future"
Well
back to Safire, I think his comment raises an interesting question, especially
in light of some of his recent stuff and that is
Were the Bush
provocation of the Sadrist uprising and Sharon's assassination of Yassin
coincidence or coordinated?
If you accept the hypothesis that the
neo-con's wish chaos the answer is clear and I think the answer is in fact that
the two are related and that Bush knew exactly what Sharon was going to do and
what he will do in the very near future.
Bremer's gonna leave. I don't know whether that matters. I
don't know whether that means continuity problems or not. I don't know to what
degree he actually runs things, nor to what degree staff that do are going to
stay. I do know that unless something changes quite radically, quite fast, there
will not be a credible Iraqi group to even pretend to hand the keys to.
Over the last three days, over 150 Iraqis
have been killed by troops all over Iraq and it's maddening. At times I feel
like a caged animal- there's so much frustration and anger. The only people
still raving about 'liberation' are the Iraqis affiliated with the Governing
Council and the Puppets, and even they are getting impatient with the mess.
Our foreign minister Hoshyar Zibari was being interviewed by some
British journalist yesterday, making excuses for Tony Blair and commending him
on the war. At one point someone asked him about the current situation in Iraq.
He mumbled something about how there were 'problems' but it wasn't a big deal
because Iraq was 'stable'… what Iraq is he living in?
And as I blog
this, all the mosques, Sunni and Shi’a alike, are calling for Jihad...
You broke it. But if you can't fix it and
you're actually making things worse, maybe it's time to get out of the china
shop.
From "Muslim Rivals Unite In Baghdad Uprising"
This is the
beginning of the endgame - the Regis Debray Decomposition has arrived. The
Sadrist Uprising will never be completely supressed. Sistani's hand will be
strengthened and the entire country will disintegrate.
"We
lost faith in the Americans," said Asaam Al Jarah, principal of a Kadhimiya high
school. "Everybody was waiting for the transition, waiting and waiting. Then we
saw the law was rubbish.
"Now everything is different."
"You have not seen anything yet," said Akram, the shopkeeper. "You
will see a new style of resistance in the city. Well-organized. Advanced. They
will be surprised. They won't know what to do."
He smiled, but refused
to say more, except that the plan would involve children as young as 8 and men
as old as 80, drawn from across the district.
"When we all sit together,
the groups of this city, it's something new. You'll be surprised. Something
really very new. We have not started it yet.
"If I talk about it, it
won't be a surprise," the shopkeeper added. "And you won't see the beauty of
it."
"There's a new style of resistance," said an elderly man who, like
the baker, gave his name as Abu Hassan.
The lines in Hassan's face
deepened as he spoke bitterly of a year under occupation in a neighborhood long
regarded by U.S. forces as hostile. The raids on private homes were the worst,
Hassan said. He repeated familiar stories of American soldiers taking money and
leaving only a receipt that proved impossible to redeem. He told of an old woman
left behind when everyone else in her home was first arrested, then declared
innocent after four months in detention.
"So we will keep killing them!"
he snapped, his eyes flashing. "We found our way, just now. We gather together
now."
U.S. Marines in a fierce battle for this
Sunni Muslim stronghold fired rockets that hit a mosque compound filled with
worshippers Wednesday, and witnesses said as many as 40 people were killed.
Shiite-inspired violence spread to nearly all of the country
That's funny, or perhaps not funny at
all. I had the same thought while reading the papers today.
Yessin/Sadr - a coincidence or a
conspiracy?
Yea right...how bout some yellowcake futures
Our leaders that's a whole differnt matter
'tirely
It's not funny at all.
6613. concerned - 4/7/2003 9:26:27 AM
Fairly conclusive evidence for WMD, so far.
6614. concerned - 4/7/2003
9:28:29 AM
Those who persist in saying that Saddam had no WMD are due for
some really tough sledding.
6616. PelleNilsson - 4/7/2003 11:39:22 AM
I'm watching extraordinary live pictures of American soldiers guiding
journalists around the presidential palace in the center of Baghdad. The Brits
have gone into the old city ouf Basra. Chemical Ali has been found dead.
6617. alistairConnor - 4/7/2003 1:29:21 PM
Looks like the Iranians are
handling things in an intelligent manner. After the Islamic militia's defeat by
the Kurds and US special forces, Iran refused them asylum and sent them back
into Iraq.
The surrender of Ansar al-Islam
Mr. Talabani said hundreds
of militants had been taken into custody by Iranian intelligence officials at
border crossings. He said he had asked Iran to extradite them all.
6621.
Ronski - 4/7/2003 4:49:41 PM
I've been wondering why the Information Officer
has not been eliminated yet. Perhaps the Coalition forces find him useful.
Or perhaps Ari Fleischer has asked that the Iraqi be extended a professional
courtesy.
6626. Wombat - 4/7/2003 6:01:41 PM
Ronski:
Perhaps--if he
survives--he can get a job in the Bush Administration.
6648. vonKreedon - 4/7/2003 8:06:57 PM
I know that this
will sound like ass covering whining, but none the less I do want to point out
that this leftist has never claimed that we would find NO chemical weapons in
Iraq. My question was what if we don't find the tons of VX/anthrax etc. that the
administration assured the world it knows for certain Saddam has. It appears
that we have found some chemical weapons, though we have heard this several
times already only to have it turn out to be untrue, despite Con's continued
claims. But the amounts involved still beg the question I posed.
Saddam did have WMD, of course. The only question is when he got
rid of the last of them.
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the
valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
"Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the
six hundred.
2.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a
man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to
do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
3.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot
and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into
the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
4.
Flash'd all their
sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the
battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode
back, but not
Not the six hundred.
5.
Cannon to right of
them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and
thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death
Back from
the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
6.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wondered.
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light
Brigade,
Noble six hundred.
1995.
Next question:
Why didn't Bush let Blix do his job?
Honor the charge they made,
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble
six hundred. 
Name: Jeffrey J. Kaylor
Rank: 2nd Lt.
Branch of Service: Army
Age: 24
Hometown: Clifton
State: VA
Date of Death: 04/07/03
by Wilfred Owen
Bent double,
like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed
through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And
towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost
their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk
with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that
dropped behind.
Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling
out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
As
under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless
sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some
smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a
devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come
gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the
cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would
not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Scores
Dead As Fallujah Resists US Onslaught
Three fewer "terrorists"
But I
think we get the picture.
Now where are those flowers and that
candy.
Enough of Potemkin Villages and lies
In the morning, the sky was blazing sunlight on the
gilded dome. The beggar women incanted "Death to the Americans" for alms
Another Bay Area Marine has died in Iraq (news - web
sites)
Kyle Crowley of San Ramon was killed along with 11 other
Marines during Tuesday's battle in Ramadi.
18-year old Crowley
attended California High School.
Violence From Shiite, Sunni Fighters
Spreads
I must confess, I was
one of the early supporters of the Iraq move although I was not a Bush/Cheney
party-liner in respect to other matters.
My apologies--my earlier report
about the Italians leaving Nasariya was wrong. This is the current situation.
They pulled back under a temporary cease-fire agreement and Iraqi police are
taking their positions.
There is so much information and conflicting
reports coming from security reports, rumors, Iraqi and international
media--it's hard to know what is really going on. (Al Jazeera and AP are two of
the news outlets who have reporters in the thick of it). There are still
conflicting reports about who controls Najaf.
It is confirmed about the
Ukrainians pulling out of al-Kut. We are trying to get staff out of there.
Apr 8, 2004 12:48 am (#1326 of 1332)
Claude, at first I thought "not
much" but then I remembered an absolutely excellent organization that I must
promote (if I haven't already...). It's called Women for Women International and
it was, interestingly enough, founded by an Iraqi woman, over 10 years ago, who
was concerned about the rape camps in Bosnia. They work mostly in post-conflict
countries. You can read about their programs in Iraq on their website, and also
about how to be a sponsor or make a donation. I can't say enough good things
about their work here. They are just amazing and made a real difference for so
many of the most marginalized women. You can be certain that your contribution
would be used well.
6659. robertjayb - 4/8/2003 1:22:18 AM
Ali
Ismaeel Abbas, 12, was fast asleep when a missile obliterated his home and most
of his family, leaving him orphaned, badly burned and missing both his arms.
"Can you help get my arms back? Do you think the doctors can get me
another pair of hands?" Abbas asked. "If I don't get a pair of hands I will
commit suicide," he said with tears spilling down his cheeks.
Probably Halliburton can help...
6660. AceofSpades -
4/8/2003 1:23:49 AM
A lot of children died during the liberation of France,
as well.
Perhaps we shouldn't have bothered.
(Actually, I it's looking
more and more that way.)
But you can play this ridiculous game as you like.
6662. vonKreedon - 4/8/2003 1:42:59 AM
Or, look at my happy smiley
Iraqis, but why do you so hate our troops as to look at the other side of the
coin?
6666. AceofSpades - 4/8/2003 2:12:48 AM
VK
Isn't that
a laugh? That you're accusing *me* of refusing to acknowledge the unintended
consequences of the action I support.
I acknowledge that people die in
war, including children, and that that's horrible.
How about you
acknowledge that Saddam Hussein would have killed 1000+ people this year alone,
including children, and raped and mutilated and tortured maybe 5x as many, and
he would do this every year of his life for the rest of his life, were we to
follow the Happy VonKreedon Keep the Raping, Mutilating, Torturing, Murdering
Dictator in Control and Preen about being "Moral" While Doing So Plan?
Why don't you acknowledge what you're really fighting for-- you're
fighting to keep Saddam Huseein in power because, and only because, you're angry
that America's security might benefit were we to depose him.
Like the former ally France, Mr. Freidman, whom you called our enemy a
couple of months ago?
Rick,
Bush may well be
re-elected. But I think he may well be bloodied by someone like Kerry and I hope
that at least a real and reasonable dialogue on American interests abroad
precedes the next election. All this not least of all because I am genuinely
pessimistic about America's future if people like Woolsey are going to be this
country's face abroad.
6689. RickNelson - 4/8/2003 4:55:48 PM
I'm glad you mention Kerry, I'm thinking about spending time looking
into his record.
6696. Wombat - 4/8/2003 5:40:17 PM
Robert Fisk
in today's Independent:
"As shells exploded to his left and the air
was shredded by the power-diving American jets, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf
announced to perhaps 100 journalists that the whole thing was a propaganda
exercise, the Americans were no longer in possession of Baghdad airport, that
reporters must "check their facts and re-check their facts – that's all I ask
you to do." Mercifully, the oil fires, bomb explosions and cordite smoke now
obscured the western bank of the river, so fact-checking could no longer be
accomplished by looking behind Mr Sahaf's back."
Still a great
reporter when he is not editorializing.
If the economy doesn't pick up,
no amount of flag-waving is going to save Bush, assuming the Democrats run
someone sentient.
6700. jayackroyd - 4/8/2003 5:53:02 PM
Is
there anyone sentient in current set of candidates who has a prayer of being
nominated? Granted, Kerry showed some spine for the first time this week, but
jeez, look at them.
The apologists for the US
administration's war on Iraq are now using the Liberation of Iraq as a smoke
screen for this war's lack of legitimacy. They cry crocodile tears for the
suffering of the Iraqi people under Saddam and decry those who would let mere
international niceties of national sovereignty get in the way of such a noble
purpose.
But when it comes to any whiff of potential infringement by the
international community on US national sovereignty, well we are having none of
that. So we are not part of the the International Criminal Court. We are not
part of the Kyoto Accords. We are not part of Convention on the Elimination of
all Forms of Discrimination Against Women. Even treaties that we have adopted we
ignore when they appear to restrict our national sovereignty. The Nuclear
Non-Proliferation Treaty requires us to, "pursue negotiations in good faith on
effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early
date and to nuclear disarmament...", but the recent January 2002 Nuclear Posture
Review calls for the maintenance of large and modernized nuclear forces for the
indefinite future. Of course, in spite of our disregard of our obligations under
the NPT, we have taken on the role of punishing other countries that are or may
be in violation of their NPT obligations. Under the Chemical Weapons Convention
and the Biological Weapons Convention we are obligated to meet reporting and
inspection regimes, but consistently fail to do so for reasons of National
Sovereignty.
But we are the worlds only superpower and should not be
bound by the international requirements of lesser nations. After all, we are
doing it all for the children.
The US militaries words and
actions in this war have been excellent nearly accross the board.
6724.
Wombat - 4/8/2003 8:28:32 PM
If the best Ace can offer is talk radio
smears, perhaps the Perfect World is the best place for him. (Incidentally, I
support the war, just in case you are tempted to smear me.)
Anyone
notice the language on the chemical drums that were uncovered near Karbala?
Yep...French.
6729. Wombat - 4/8/2003 10:08:50 PM
I see Kanan
Makiya as the potential Vaclav Havel of Iraq.
Ah well...he still could be. Might take another decade,
though.
There is no fundamental
problem about the US getting real, meaninful international help for Iraq. As
long as they are prepared to sit down and negotiate, not only the means to be
employed, but the goals to be achieved.
There is not a snowflake's
chance that this will happen. For one thing, that would require them to clearly
state their goals.
BTW, above the fold, front page in the NYTimes
today is a piece that details Shell's and Oman's overstatement of exploitable
reserves.
However, today's events might well be the first solid nail in the coffin
of American intentions in Iraq.
fuck
Imagine how these images are playing right now in the ME, what this
story is doing for US troop morale. 
(Iraqis sitting on a truck loaded with medical and food supplies bound
for the flashpoint town of Fallujah, pass a burning US convoy attacked in Abu
Gharib, on the outskirts of Fallujah.)
I can't recall all the words offhand but Johnson said he would
not seek reelection but would devote his energy to trying to straighten out the
mess in Vietnam (for which he was hugely responsible).
Besides, if he
doesn't run, and win - and get four more years to cover-up mightily - some of
his teammates are heading straight to disgrace, trial, and possibly even to the
clink. Gots to win, gots to win, no matter what.
"I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the
nomination of my party for another term as your president." (White House,
Washington, D.C., March 31, 1968)
And as I blog this, all the mosques, Sunni and Shi’a
alike, are calling for Jihad...
Sadr calls for calm, but it may be too late
And goes on to cite a flyer purported to be from Sadr as well as rumors
of negotiations between Sadr and the Iraqi Governing Council.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Sunni guerrillas killed a U.S. Marine Thursday
in the fourth day of the battle for Fallujah, and militant Shiite militiamen
held two southern cities. In an ominous new tactic, kidnappers seized foreign
hostages, threatening to burn three Japanese captives alive if Tokyo did not
withdraw troops.
The al-Sadr's al-Mahdi Army militia had full control in
the cities of Kut and Kufa and in the central part of Najaf. Police in the
cities have abandoned their stations or stood aside as the gunmen roam the
streets.
The situation in
Fallujah is worse than the media is being allowed to report. Once again there
are inadequate forces for what they are attempting. Disregarding the Iraqi CD
types (and they should be disregarded since they provide little assistance and
provide intell for the insurgents), we had about 1,000 trigger-pullers initially
committed. there is no way a force that size can establish positive control in
that urban area. I remember it took most of a Marine division and a brigade of
army airborne to regain control of Hue after Tet. Other examples include the 3+
divisions of germans required to squash the Warsaw uprising- and these Iraqis
are much better armed than the Poles were. More later after I catch up.
"stay the
course"
Another slogan bites the dust.
Sad.
THe
Mighty "Coalition" Showing Signs of Cracking
They're staying
courses - all right - straight back to the rear with the gear.
The
Coalition
Cracking
The link above is to a report on the New Coalition
The Uniter Not a Divider stays the course
--------------------
trans. J. Cole:
' In the Name
of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate
"They plot, and God plots, and
God is the best of plotters." God, the exalted, the great, has spoken truly.
To the Army of the Mahdi, the Office of the Speaking, Fighting Center of
Religious Learning, and to the followers of the martyred Sayyid [Sadiq] al-Sadr,
and all Muslims:
We formerly requested the withrdrawal of the American
forces of occupation from our country, and the erection of an Islamic state. But
after the iniquitous attack on us on the part of the American Zionist forces of
occupation, we recently asked for the release of Shaikh Mustafa al-Ya`qubi and
the reopening of our newspaper, which speaks out, they replied to us with
gunfire and the response of rabble. Many of our sons and brothers, Sunni and
Shiite, have been martyred. But it has also reached us that a rebellious faction
has infiltrated your ranks and deliberately attempted to fan the flames of
turmoil..
Clerics and Iraqi personalities and tribal notables, we have
decided (we, the office of the martyered Sayyid al-Sadr), to halt the military
operations and gatherings, and to stop the disturbance of secure citizens, to
halt the attacks on their honor, and to apprehend these rebellious elements and
to surrender them to the office of the speaking, fighting religious Center.
We continue to demand the release of all those imprisoned, and the
reopening of our newspaper. We urge that action be confined to peaceful retreats
after the Friday prayers on 19 Safar 1425, in the Kufa Mosque only.
All
believing brethren in all the provinces must prepare to fulfill their religious
duties through this sit-in, and to prevent enemies of Islam from infiltrating
their ranks.
Muqtada al-Sadr
Najaf
17 Safar 1425 '
U.S. Marines halted offensive operations in Fallujah on
Friday to allow talks with a delegation of sheiks from the city, a stronghold of
Sunni insurgents that has been besieged by American forces this week, the top
U.S. administrator in Iraq said.
That seems sensible. Other than a
nice clean carpet bombing, re-taking the city would be necessarily a messy
business, now that it's apparent that it's no longer a few thousand crazed Sadr
militiamen they are up against, but a nation in insurrection.
The
difficulty is in finding people to negotiate with. Perhaps the insurrection
could have the positive effect of legitimizing some new leaders.
--
Stunning thing, the lack of media coverage of the convoy from Baghdad to
Fallujah. Yes, I know, Condi Rice testified yesterday - but not a word? Not an
image?
It's amazing - this hugely significant development takes place
and it is as though nothing happened.
10,000 ordinary Baghdadi's made the trip there
yesterday to deliver medical supplies and food.
They weren't Saddamites,
ex-Baathist terruhrists, trouble makers or desperate thugs ..
According
to news reports they were middle class and they were outraged.
The cease
fire (reports are that fire isn't ceasing) from Bremmer and that from Sadr were
the most sensible moves I have seen in months.
The US is now in a
hopeless situation. It was always headed there, and now it is there.
Bloody street fighting in Fallujah only makes matters worse.
We
cannot continue this occupation any longer.
We need to radically
internationalize the place YESTERDAY and bring in Arab League
peacekeepers....withdraw in phases down to about 20,000 troops, hole up in bases
and write checks to International organizations to clean up the mess we have
made in a war that never should have been fought in the first place...
This war will go down in history as the most ineptly executed and
conceived major power venture of the Modern Era
It's one thing to take Fallujah and another to hold it. The
insurgents may fight- in which case the 2 battalions won't be enough. Or they
may adapt guerilla tactics and and melt back into the populace. As I said months
ago; the US has adopted a force protection strategy and has built camps and
bases in the country were our weapon systems can operate at maximum efficacy.
The corollary, of course, is that we ceded control of urban areas; relying on
the dubious effectiveness of the Iraqi police forces. One more example of
wishful thinking on the part of Rumsfeld.
The American way of war has always attempted to substitute
capital for labor. Thus tactics and weapon systems are based on relatively few
trigger pullers who are augmented by massive firepower technolgies. The problem
is using those technologies in an urban area. Anybody remenber free fire zones?
A kind friend who was able to get a phone
call into Najaf reports as follows:
' I called my friend in Najaf today
Thursday . . . Private internet doesn´t work. Messages bounce. There are though
some institutional connections working, like hospitals and other.
American helicopters are circling above Najaf perpetually. The Mahdi
army are said to have ca 200-400 fighters in Najaf central city.
The
Americans are repeatedly sending in envoys to Sistani, who rejects Americans the
permission to enter the city. They have now told Sistani that they are going to
enter the city in four days after religious celebrations are over. Sistani has
ongoing negotiations with Muqtada trying to make him leave the city. Sistani´s
fearing grenade shelling and bloodshed and bombings amid the planned attempt to
capture the young cleric. Sistani tell people to stay inside (they seem taking
his advice) hoping negotiations will succeed. Shops and businesses are closed
and there are problems buying food. Sistanis son now functions as a
messenger/envoy, meeting them and leaving edicts or proposals to the Americans.
A lot of pilgrims from Iran are caught in this mess, sleeping in the
streets, roaming streets trying to find shelter and something to eat. Pilgrimage
in Najaf these days coming won´t be a very good idea..
I don´t know hw
much of his info is Al Jazeerah or Al Arabiya, people are glued to the Tv set,
but this story he was telling me two hours ago.
So,what will follow
these four days? Najaf has so far managed to avoid devastation and much
bloodshed.
Will Sistani be "collateral damage"? Will the city of Najaf and
its inhabitants be victims of stubborness and recklessness like Falujah? Will
there be a changed Sistani policy after these four days + one week? '
posted by Juan Cole at 4/9/2004 07:38:27 AM
The closest I got to Vietnam - a friend's older brother passed
through the Frat house with a killer tincture of opium...
He was
artillery...freely firing and very high
The supplemental appropriations games they are playing, not even LBJ
dared such chicanery...That 87 Billion they rammed through is running out and
they should appropriate what they need (another 55 billion) in this session...
But they can't for fear of the People ...They may not appreciate just
FUBAR'ed Iraq is but they know enough to know that they don't want US to know
..hide the cost, hide the bodies...and try to get elected.
Potent, unsettling, images coming out of Iraq these days.
This
is a soldier, back in Firdaus Square where the pulling down of the statue of
Saddam took place. This time, he's clambering up the replacement
abstract-future-of-iraq structure to tear off photos of al-Sadr.
Welcome
back jroth. This is a growing pattern. The professionals in counterterrorism and
the military get fed up and bail. This is, of course, a death spiral because
there are fewer voices of knowledge and reason in the room, and more true
believers.
It's one thing to take Fallujah and another to hold it.
You can insert pretty much anywhere in Iraq or Afghanistan into that
sentence in place of "Fallujah." They simply have not had the basic
understanding that winning a battle, even a big battle, is not winning a war. A
battle is about military objectives. A war is about political objectives. In
Hersh's piece in the most recent New Yorker, he recounts a US colonel meeting a
North Vietnamese colonel, recently. The American says "We never the lost a
battle in the fiel." The Vietnamese replied "And that is irrelevant."
The searing idiocy of this is dumbfounding. The usual problem is that
one fights the last war. They didn't even learn from that.
I said a
couple of days ago that it had crossed my mind, for the first time, that the US
should just pull out, let the civil war happen and hope for the best. Support
Kurdistan, work with the Turks to keep them from getting fucked, and hope that
the emergent government is Iraqi and not Islamist. But we're down to hope. Oh,
sorry, I forgot. Hope was the plan from the start.
-
Sadr was under control...Sistani pull his chain and all was well
- they
say it was because of the newspaper..HELLO...he gets his message out through
Mosques to his people anyway...
- they said "It was because of his
militia" but there are militias all over..hello Pesh Merga..the US Army
Airlifted George Washington Chalabi's militia from Europe!
Now they've
just made him more powerful and Sistani more troublesome than he already was...
They've united Sunni and Shia (as I predicted/hoped for last
summer)..They have enraged the population..they have driven the last nail into
the IGC and its "consntitution"...
I caannot believe they are that
stupid..not even they are that stupid..
When this thing started, I was really worried
about taking and securing Baghdad. Urban warfare in a society that treats AK47s
as necessary household items is tricky.
I was wrong. The fall of Saddam
trumped that. The neocons were right about his deep unpopularity.
But
it's no longer about the oppressor Saddam. It's now about the oppressor Uncle
Sam (I still can't believe they closed that newspaper.) And that changes
everything. Banks' news report, which I hadn't seen until this morning, of the
general populace marching to the aid of the resistence is the first toll of the
death knell.
If there was some kind of effective diplomatic presence,
this might be salvagable. But, from here, of course, reading remote news reports
that could of course be wrong, there doesn't seem to be anybody who is trusted
to talk, nor who is willing to listen. It seems as if this whole flood was being
held back by al Sistani, and that the dike he represents is cracking everywhere.
The inference is clear - our position in Iraq is
highly precarious CPA Potemkin village press releases notwithstanding...
'Bat--
I say this with respect
for your opinion, and am hesitant to disagree.
But isn't there a
"destroy the village in order to save it" quality to this idea? It may well be
tactically what needs to be done to retake the city. But, having done so, is it
going to be easier or harder to hold it? And, hold it against whom? At this
point, who is the enemy?
I reiterate. I don't for a minute believe that
the Vietnam analogies make sense here (even though I just made one, sorry). But
I saw a reference elsewhere to Lenin and the Bolsheviks that did make sense. The
US created a power vacuum. She's had almost a year to fill it in. She's
apparently failed. Do you think killing civilians is gonna address that failure?
support the
Turks??? They don't want Bush's "support"...told him to piss off twice now and
are not at all pleased that Iraq is now a real danger to the neighborhood...
When the US is gone...the hood will deal with the Kurds with blut und
eisen
But vietnam analogies are apt if used
judiciously...for instance..
No international support
No exit
strategy
FUndamentally flawed strategic calculus
Credibilty gap
Now what is missing one to the other we can't have...an ENEMY that
the politicians can demonize long enough to sustain support for the
misadventure. Speakin of course of Godless Commuhnism's Dominos...we cannot wage
war against Islam against Arab nationalism and culture and Saddam is gone...no
more demon..
City warfare, not jungle warfare.
At the moment, at least, limited opposition.
No popular
movement. al Sadr's trying to start that, but it's not clear that he has.
The crisis here is that the US probably could, by use of force, pacify
and rule the country. But that would violate every precept we've ever said we
follow (not that we did always follow them).
And look, it may get
better. This may just be a bad week. But, to me, it doesn't look good.
Fallujah can be
taken and held, but only at considerable military expense and great political
cost.
That's my point. In last Sunday's
NYTimes Magazine the commander of 101st Airborne was quoted as saying "Tell me
how this ends."
Take it, sure. Pacify the populace. Impose curfews.
Then what?
Fighting a fairly localized insurgency is not rocket science,
but it does require a great deal of manpower, time, money, and political
committment, and surefootedness. In a sense, we are fortunate that Falujah seems
to be a focal point for that insurgency, and that a fair number of fighters (and
sympathizers) are located there. The stated premise going in is that US forces
will leave only when those resisting surrender, when all arms are handed over,
and when a competent civil administration is ready to take over and maintain the
peace.
The city will literally have to be gone over foot by foot, anyone
resisting--or suspected of resisting who is not killed will have to be detained,
those involved in the killing and mutilation of the 4 mercenaries
(err..."contractors") will have to be identified, court-martialed, and punished.
Any arms found will be siezed and destroyed. (I would also destroy the bridge on
which the bodies and parts were hung from to make the point that it was a bad
thing to do, and that there are consequences).
Now the hard part...once
Falujah is "pacified" to the satisfaction of the commnander on the ground, the
city (or parts of it) will have to be rebuilt, by local labor, paid for by the
US. The idea is that a peaceful Falujah will be much better off than it was
before. When a competent local administration is in place, US forces will leave.
Now how likely is this to happen?
--Barham Salih, prime minister of the Kurdistan
Regional Government, in today's Washington Post.
We agree.
Start
with the premise that the occupation will cease when Iraq is peaceful with a
functioning national administration and political infrastructure.
Divide
the country into administrative districts. Rank the districts according to the
level of insurgent activity and successful local control. Those areas which have
low levels of insurgent activity and competent local control (acceptable to the
occupier--of course), see little in the way of occupying forces (unless the
situation changes) and much in the way of reconstruction aid. Areas with
unacceptable levels of violence and poor or inimical local control get treated
like Falujah above. As the situation in the latter improves, they take steps
toward becoming more like the former.
Simple, isn't it? All it will take
is 20 years, 250,000 troops, and untold billions of dollars.
So concerned's joined that LW guy who was saying it's all about
the oil.
The problem, of course, that you haven't stated, 'bat, is that
this was evident from the start. One could take a more modern look at nation
building strategies, but the resource commitments are of the same order.
I found that amusing.
Did you notice just btw that Wombat was describing 19th century British
colonialism? Not freedom. Stable government, maybe, under an American proconsul,
backed up by hundreds of thousands of troops. You may recall that, for them,
that stability turned out to be a fleeting thing.
I was describing 20th Century British decolonization, which for
some countries, has worked out fairly well. A fair number of them have turned
out to be functioning democracies.
We have neither the time, nor
the money nor the patience nor I hope the good sense to spend years chasing what
has never been more than an PR afterthought (DEMOCRACY DOMINOS).
Folks
we are staying the course in hot pursuit of a hairball Bush slogan...and the
Republican flaks instructed to toe the party line on this mess are still
parroting the same old canards ..."just think how great it will be to have
created a vibrant and prosperous Western democracy in the Arab world"
"and the mass graves"
Don't forget... "gassed his own people!"
"World is better off"
"As long as I am president no world body
is going to tell the US how to defend its people. That awesome duty belongs to
me, the Beloved Leader and Warlord. So bring it on..Let's roll...Evildoers...God
Bless America...Operation Iraqi Freedom...uniter not a divider....new dawn in
America...don't MEss with Texas"
Oh yeah...Japan and Germany (actually the Brits DID have
experience with that one and nominally Japan too) but in any case, the only
thing the two have in common with Iraq is well nothing of any signficance at all
...
That's another old Bush War Con Canard...tired, tattered torn
and when you look back on the crap he fed us (or tried) very very sad that
anyone believed any of it...
April 9, 2004 | PARIS (AP) --
Washington has asked Paris for a role in an international protection force for
U.N. employees in Iraq, but it is too early to respond, the Foreign Ministry
said Friday.
"I can confirm that France was approached by the American
authorities on the question of protecting the United Nations in Iraq," Foreign
Ministry spokesman Herve Ladsous said.
"However, the question of a
possible U.N. re-involvement in Iraq depends on a number of questions that are
far from being resolved," Ladsous said.
It said the soldiers who died on Friday were a 1st Cavalry
Division soldier killed in a roadside bomb and small arms attack in Taji, north
of Baghdad, and a 13th Corps Support Command soldier killed on an attack on a
convoy near Baghdad airport.
The convoy attack also killed a
civilian truck driver and wounded 12 people, the statement said.
1. How long can the US
occupy a Muslim country invaded by force of arms?
2. How can we best
structure the international political situation in aid of the effort
3.
How much will it cost?
4. What are the objectives?
5. What are
the planned steps for reaching the objective?
6. How long will it take?
7. How will it affect US force structure
8. How will it affect
broader US interests?
9. What intelligence assets do we need?
10. How are guys from Fresno and Hobboken supposed to run a country that
could not be more alien to them?
11.....and on and on...
4328. jayackroyd - 4/9/2004 4:12:07 PM
No source of
supply for armaments.
City warfare, not jungle warfare.
At the
moment, at least, limited opposition.
No popular movement. al Sadr's
trying to start that, but it's not clear that he has.
The crisis here is
that the US probably could, by use of force, pacify and rule the country. But
that would violate every precept we've ever said we follow (not that we did
always follow them).
And look, it may get better. This may just be a bad
week. But, to me, it doesn't look good.
No dispute here....except
perhaps as to the significance of the differences...I did only point out
similarities after all but
This warfare is what the war gamers now call
4th generation..Vietnam was 3rd...
The opposition is not organized -
yet.
There is no significant source of external support - yet but there
usually isn't in classic guerilla war either
City fighting is worse than
jungle if you can sustain it without alienating the population over much...the
real problem for the Iraqi insurgents is that they have no place for the first
phase of Strategic Retreat (The Long March) or Giap's Jungles to gather their
forces and garner external support...move to the Strategic Stalemate phase
That means that they will always be 4th generation..but then so is
the Intifada.
Ulitimately it doesn't matter because the US is in a far
worse strategic position...our time is limited...theirs is limitless...they do
not have to worry about moving as a politcal military force to Phase III - a
military victory all they have to do is keep the shit sufficiently stirred up
against the Occupier until the Occupier leaves.
Sure add another 400K troops and some semblance
of order might be imposed but that Iraq would hardly be pacified. In fact it
would likely be more hostile ...quite a bit more
Remember too we have no
government...South Vietnam had a government...South Vietnam had a fairly decent
army and a very large one..and well equipped..they had intelligence agents who
looked like they belonged in Vietnam...we have none of that...we need political
stability and legitimacy more than anything else...and over the past year, those
goals have become progressively difficult to envision ever achieving
That's why the longer the US occupies Iraq the more likely a violent
civil war and hostile national regime will be.
The IGC expressed its "disgust" at the
US seige of Fallujah and one member RESIGNED!
Must be thinking of
actually running for office some day!
US
Led Occupation SInks Deeper into Turmoil
Third generation and
fourth share some things in common - militarization of the moderate masses being
a major objective...tacticaly the VC cut off arms of children vaccinated by US
Hearts and Minds Squads....teaches lesson..we rule the night
Viet
Minh had a nasty little gimmick...they'd stick the mutilated, disemboweled
dodies of French soldiers on pikes along the highway that French forces were
using and just outside a village...
The French, predictably enraged,
would vainly look for the perpetrators and wind up killinng women, children, old
men, old dogs=, young cats, chickens....Familiar isn't it...exactly what
happened in Fallujah..it wasn't the four professional soldiers of fortune that
prompted the seige...it was the desecration of their bodies ...
They're
indigenous and the occupier, exogenous.
But now I'm starting to wonder. Two of the US-appointed
Governing Council members have quit, another is starkly critical of US actions
in Falluja.
Who is reporting this? Is the American public getting the
message that even the stooges are turning against the current US strategy? Is it
being widely understood that these are the stooges who, purportedly, are going
to be "ruling" Iraq in 10 or so weeks?
I'm going to watch the news now,
I may be wrong. If anyone hears about these GC members resignations on the news
tonight please say the word here.
I may have mentioned that blogging changes everything.
They can't sit on this for long.
Yet, it has
happened.
How do you spin this away? I suppose the best way is to
not acknowledge that it has happened.
In a split
between U.S.-picked Iraqi leaders and American administrators, the Governing
Council demanded an immediate cease-fire across the country Friday and a halt to
military operations that punish civilians.
A Shiite member of the
council also met with radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, whose militia is
battling U.S.-led forces in the south, and announced he was suspending his
membership in the Iraqi Governing Council until the ''bleeding in all Iraq''
ends.
Another member, Ghazi al-Yawer, threatened to quit the council
over the Marines' bloody siege of the city of Fallujah, aimed at uprooting Sunni
insurgents.
Fighting Rages in Fallujah, Najaf, Karbala; 6 US Troops Dead, Hundreds
of Iraqis
In a CNN interview retired General Barry MacCaffrey
said that the task of the US is to regain control of Baghdad and restore its
lines of communication in the South. He gave away a great deal. One may conclude
that a) the US has lost control of Baghdad and b) the US communications and
supply lines in the South have been cut.
al-Hayatreports that the US
succeeded in turning away an aid convoy from Abu Ghuraib. The US let in only a
few trucks among the 60 that had shown up with food, water and medicine for
civilians in the city.
The relief convoy was a joint Sunni-Shiite
operation, and protesters carried posters of assassinated Hamas leader Sheikh
Ahmed Yassin and Muqtada al-Sadr. It seems to me from reading between the lines
in the press reporting that some US troops let some of the food and supplies
into the city as an act of insubordination toward Donald Rumsfeld, refusing to
fire on unarmed civilians to stop them from entering the city with food.
Pan-Islam and Sunni-Shiite unity in the face of encroaching Western
powers have been a political dream since the time of Sayyid Jamal al-Din
al-Afghani in the 19th century, but have usually proven futile. Donald Rumsfeld
has finally made al-Afghani's dream come true.
The Minister for
Human Rights in Iraq, appointed by the American-appointed Interim Governing
Council, has resigned. Abdul Basit Turki said he was leaving his position "in
protest at the practices of the Americans." The Interior Minister, Nuri Badran,
who is responsible for internal security, was forced to resign by Paul Bremer. .
AFP says that Kazakhstan has decided to withdraw its troops from
Iraq at the end of May.
posted by Juan Cole at 4/9/2004 07:58:14 AM
Well, it seems to
,i>me that Juan Cole is extrapolating a bit much. I mean, that's a lot
more than reading between the lines, it's wholesale and unsupportable
conjecture.
clearly they are angry and frustrated with
everything the US has done in Iraq over the past year... all their experience
and advice has been ignored...
Now, can they get a new UN resolution for
an internationalised transition?
If Bush was smart, he would give the UK
carte blanche to negotiate a new UNSC resolution -- after all, it's not like he
has a plan of his own. But he will need to give up control of Iraq, and not just
nominal sovereignty.
This has been pretty clearly
contraindicated. Today, he's fishing for bass in his own stocked pond.
The last points out a problem that's been there from the
beginning, and points out just how incoherent a policy position Bush has taken.
They talk democracy and freedom, but they also talk about certain results in the
formation of the government. (Try to put aside the padlocking of a newspaper in
this context, although it's amusing to think of Mayor Bloomberg padlocking the
Post because it prints lies.) That tension is a very difficult tension to
resolve, but it may have been possible, with deft diplomacy, and, probably, some
cash. The more time that passes, the more difficult that conflict is to resolve.
Essentially al Sistani's position was "Put up or shut up." And al Sadr's is "Get
out already."
We didn't put up in time. But worse, we didn't have any
idea of what to put up, except apparently a puppet government and 100,000 troops
to support it. A year after the mission was accomplished, we're pretty much
where we started. Is it any wonder that there is widespread opposition (perhaps
not majority, perhaps not even large minority, but when everybody has an AK47
and an RPG launcher, the hearts and mind question is tougher. Perhaps the NRA
can help us here.)? And that the groups that see themselves to be certain to be
left out of any democratic solution are asserting their authority in other ways?
What of this was hard to foresee?
What Bush Hath
Wrought
Death and destruction
Well..right..
Rove is all hat, no cattle...
His last two elections - Bush's
loss to Gore and Ashcroft to a dead man
Is this the resume of a sharp
political consultant?
Would you buy a used campaign strategy from Karl
Rove?
"The man hold ALL the cards in
Iraq..."
Clue: not The Emperor of the Armadillos
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A major
international oil and gas conference in Iraq has been postponed indefinitely for
security reasons, Oil Minister Ibrahim Bahr al-Uloum said on Friday.
"No
date has been set yet for a new conference," Uloum told Reuters.
The
conference to outline Iraq's investment policy was due to be held on April 18-19
in the southern port city of Basra before violence engulfed the country.
There are reports that not
only do most residents of Najaf not support al-Sadr, but they are pissed off at
him for disrupting the Arabeen commemoration and scaring pilgrims away. I
wouldn't be surprised. I went to Najaf last November and it's general level of
development is noticeably higher than the other towns in that region due to
tourism income.
Pentagon officials said it was unlikely the 3rd ID would be called up
so quickly.
The senior defense official said Abizaid's request was too
specific for a warfighting commander to make. The forces Abizaid gets will be
decided on by the Joint Staff in Washington. He is supposed to limit his
requests to capabilities and Washington decides, based on scheduling and skills
and equipment, how to fill those requirements.
................................................
Whatever the military requirement, adding troops to the force in Iraq
carries with it a poltical price. More than a year ago, then Army Chief of Staff
Gen. Eric Shinseki told Congress the occupation of Iraq would require "several
hundred thousand" troops. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz called that
estimate "wildly off the mark." The Pentagon leaked the name of Shinseki's
replacement months before his scheduled retirement, rendering him a lame duck.
............................................
In his farewell speech
at his retirement ceremony last year, Shinseki warned the Army was being
over-committed.
"Beware the 12-division strategy for a 10-division
Army," he said. "Our soldiers and families bear the risk and the hardship of
carrying a mission load that exceeds what force capabilities we can sustain, so
we must alleviate risk and hardship by our willingness to resource the mission
requirements."
As Shinseki predicted, the Army is very heavily tapped.
Between Iraq and Afghanistan, nine of its 10 divisions are either on deployment
or have recently been relieved by other forces and are due for rest and
retraining.
The upshot...Sistani
holds the cards and these cards have Bush Imperial Legion faces on em
I saw a Freeper post of a CPA propaganda
sheet that really reminded me of things that TASS was putting out from Kabul in
the 80's..
So they're being pumped with Potemkin Village Sewerage about
the Reality of Iraq...
Wait till they see that TowelHead Sistani's
picture all over the nightly Fox news!
I wonder if they'll break out
their prayer rugs and face Crawford 5 times a day?
Marjie before we outsource your Brit bootlickin brown-nose back to where
it came from, perhaps you ought to read the lines that Prof Cole was reading in
between....
You'll
Find the line here
One thing about Obe Juan Cole - no 2 -
1.
that man knows more about what's happening now and its historical antecedents
than any person you will find in any medium of the media...
2. The
professor is sooooo fucking professorial...he is given to understatement to a
fault
Its pretty damn clear what happened ...Rummy said kill, and the
troops said, no way Jose...thank Krishna for our Troops eh?
So why don't
just git your butt back Bombay and steal food off American tables.
:)
Fallujah
Bloodbath threatens US-Appointed Iraqi Government with Collapse
Shoulda asked me...Obe Juan had em all long before you even thought
about em
God Save the Queens!
The degree of hatred
for the United States in the Muslim world is growing by the minute, as the
events in Fallujah are broadcast throughout the region. Egyptian President Hosni
Mubarak's warning to Bush that by invading Iraq he would be creating 100 Bin
Ladens may well come to pass. For more on this see the Washington Post
A must read: 
4/09/04 Comment: #507
The Howling Wilderness of
Pseudoconservatism
Dr. Werther
If you
thought that you were wrong
Since retirement last May, I've spent most of my time on a
sailboat in Maine and the Bahamas, watching political/military events as an
outsider from a distance. On occasion, I have been asked by my new sailing
companions — Canadians, Brits, and a variety of Northern Europeans questions
like: "What has happened to Amerika? Have you people lost minds and descended
into paranoid fantasy? Do you not realize there is more to the world than the
blessings of McDonalds, NASCAR®, and your appropriation of God's will?"
What follows is Werther's tour d'horizon. I urge you to
read it and think about it — for it is also about unclogging — not toilets, mind
you, but the political mind, which can be likened to a clogged toilet on
occasion.
TD has a clogged septic. Howze it comin there Batman?
The
start is pretty unedifying, but it gets much better
6735.
PincherMartin - 4/10/2003 4:06:21 AM
Jeepers, this place is as quiet as
a tomb. From the sound of it, you'd think a few people here just had some
dearly-held, precious delusions about their world shattered into pieces.
I wouldn't worry about it. There will be other reasons for you guys to
hate the U.S. soon enough.
6736. Snowowl - 4/10/2003 4:13:20 AM
Don't be an idiot. The Mote has been down since before I went to bed
last night until about 5 minutes ago.
6738. PincherMartin - 4/10/2003
4:27:16 AM
If I were as suspicious of The Mote's management team's
motives as, say, Alistair is of U.S. motives in Iraq, I guess I would think that
this forum's outage over the last few hours was planned.
Should we
expect The Mote to be down quite a bit over the next few weeks if the good news
keeps coming in?
6741. arkymalarky - 4/10/2003 4:35:48 AM
We're
great with it. If it's still that way a month from now and we're not being
cursed and sniped at for everything from slow transition to a new government to
lack of order to supply shortages I'll be shocked and awed.
As far as evidence, I'm
still waiting on the verdict of that. Unless you're talking about our second
motive for this invasion.
Really? You're waiting on it? You want to
make any bets about whether we find WMD? And if you don't want to make that bet,
I guess I can infer that you're pretty sure we had good cause to believe they
are in there. In other words, we had good cause to go to war.
I think
Bush is an idiot.
Yes, Arky, we know that. Bush is an idiot. Just
look at his conduct of this war, when so many smarter people were counseling we
do this and that. He's plainly just a dumbass for not following their
suggestions. Thank God we have Cheney and Rove in there to wipe his chin off
when he's drooling.
If you truly think Bush is an idiot, you must also
think he's the luckiest man alive. He must be the Forrest Gump of U.S.
Presidents, stumbling from one fortunate incident to another.
6759.
Dubai Vol - 4/10/2003 2:40:25 PM
Hahaha!You anti-war pukes are pathetic!
Three weeks, less than a hundred US combat deaths, less than a thousand Iraqi
civilian deaths, and Baghdad is taken. CHILDREN let out of prison, torture
chambers found, crowds cheering and throwing flowers, humanitarian aid flowing.
Nothing but good news for Iraqis and the world.
And take it to the bank:
the proof of WMDs is soon to follow.
Face it: you were wrong on every
count.
Well, Dube, I fervently hoped
for a quick and complete US victory, so I'm pleased with the result in that
respect. On the other hand, that in no way invalidates my opposition to the war,
which was certainly not predicated on the expected number of deaths in the US
military.
I agree with Pinscher when he says [We] have a brilliant
military machine and I think our soldiers have been our best PR people
internationally thus far. (... what does that say about your PR people? I think
your soldiers have been your best diplomats too...)
6761. Macnas - 4/10/2003
3:39:39 PM
I think that everyone here that opposed this war, and I am
one of those, once it started hoped for a swift conclusion. Though the rotund
gal has yet to sing, it seems that the assault stage is coming to an end.
And do not get me wrong here, and do not think that I am backtraking or
justifying anything when I say that I am relived that the Iraqi forces, in
Baghdad especially, saw sense and, as I said sometime back, stowed their rifles,
went home and sat it out.
Have another beer, you deserve it.
6774. marjoribanks - 4/10/2003 5:56:58 PM
I saw yesterday,
again, one thing that shocked and impressed me and suddenly brought back the
total optimism I harbored about this campaign before the Bushites went about it
by kicking everyone not Brit in the balls repeatedly.
The Abud Dhabi TV
anchor on CNN said that his channel is arranging a huge town hall meeting in
Nasiriya to be broadcast live across the Arab world, and wants a hook-up with a
US town hall meeting. That is a huge revolution in itself. Can you imagine?
Watch this
stuff, it is potent. I would not want to be young Assad, or even the young King
of Jordan, in the coming months.
6783. Wombat - 4/10/2003 8:25:03 PM
I am not sure that I would allow the UN a role in helping form the
government and political system in Iraq. Reforming the education system,
training police and judicial officials, coordinating relief and infrastructure
restoration, repatriation of refugees, yes.
6785. PelleNilsson -
4/10/2003 9:46:48 PM
Wombat
What I'm questioning is the dominant
role of the defense department in the future governance of Iraq. I'd rather have
the foreign office do it, or perhaps some kind of joint effort. What is your
opinion?
6794. alistairconnor - 4/11/2003 12:01:37 AM
Each
'adventure' like Iraq with its follow ons is an additional drain on US
resources.
Indeed. And it doesn't look like the US has the
wherewithal to pay for this/> adventure, let alone the next one.
The
last Gulf War was paid for mostly by Saudi, Japan and Germany. And there wasn't
the reconstruction to pay for that time.
I guess the Iraqis will just
have to sit tight in their ruins for a few years until they've got some oil
income.
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Street battles against the U.S.
occupation of Iraq (news - web sites) erupted in Baghdad on Saturday and
kidnappers threatened to kill an American hostage as moderate Iraqis tried to
negotiate peace on two fronts.
Teenagers armed with rocket
propelled grenades and assault rifles fought U.S. troops in the alleys of
Baghdad's northwest Sunni Muslim Adhimiya district.
The
U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council, which has become increasingly at odds
with the U.S.-led authorities over the fighting, negotiated both with Sunni Arab
rebels in the flashpoint city of Falluja and hardline Shi'ite cleric Moqtada
al-Sadr who has led a week-long uprising against U.S. forces.
Cheney: The
read we get on the people of Iraq is there is no question but that they want to
get rid of Saddam Hussein and they will welcome as liberators the United States
when we come to do that. [...]
[Tim Russert noted that the Army Chief of
Staff had said we would need well over a hundred thousand troops to maintain
order after the invasion.]
Cheney: I disagree. We need, obviously, a
large force and we've deployed a large force. To prevail, from a military
standpoint, to achieve our objectives, we will need a significant presence there
until such time as we can turn things over to the Iraqis themselves. But to
suggest that we need several hundred thousand troops there after military
operations cease, after the conflict ends, I don't think is accurate. I think
that's an overstatement.
Kenneth Adelman, Washington Post, February
13, 2002:
I believe demolishing Hussein's military power and
liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk. Let me give simple, responsible reasons:
(1) It was a cakewalk last time; (2) they've become much weaker; (3) we've
become much stronger; and (4) now we're playing for keeps.
Richard Perle, Knight-Ridder, March 29, 2003:
Richard
Perle, an influential former Pentagon official who is close to Rumsfeld,
reportedly gave a briefing to Wall Street firm Goldman Sachs 10 days ago in
which he predicted that the war would last no longer than three weeks. "And
there is a good chance that it will be less than that," he said.
David Frum, National Review, February 24, 2003:
But there
is good news: If the preparations for the Iraq round of the war on terror have
gone very, very slowly, the Iraq fight itself is probably going to go very, very
fast. The shooting should be over within just a very few days from when it
starts. The sooner the fighting begins in Iraq, the nearer we are to its
imminent end. Which means, in other words, that this "rush to war" should really
be seen as the ultimate "rush to peace."
GEN Eric Shinseki,
US Army Chief of Staff, Testimony before Congress, February 2003:
"It will take at least 150,000 US troops in country, over a period of at
least 10 years, to effect regime change in Iraq."
Paul D. Wolfowitz,
Deputy Secretary of Defense:
"In my opinion, General Shinseki
doesn't know what he's talking about."
Conditioning the Masses in the
Hall of Mirrors II
Name: John D. Amos II
Rank: Pfc.
Branch of Service:
Army
Age: 22
Hometown: Valparaiso
State: IN
Date of Death:
04/04/04 
I received
this update from him this morning ...
"The fighting two nights ago was loud and widespread throughout the
northern and northwestern parts of Baghdad ... areas such as Yarmouk, Sadr City
had almost continuous gunfights and rocket attacks. When we heard US forces
using the main gun on M-1 tanks at 1 AM we knew it was serious insurgency at
hand. The night is no longer the refuge and domain of the Americans. I have to
tell you although the wide open areas of Iraq give a false sense of security.
Even though much of this is unseen to most people the situation has gone from
bad to really bad to unbelievably bad! Westerners are getting hit
everywhere.....
we have just antagonized the core of the Shiite
resistance and putting them to work is better than letting them fight us 24/7.
General Sanchez is right about one thing ... this is not Vietnam ... Oh no, its
not that easy. I refer you to Israel humiliating defeat in Southern Lebanon by
Hezbollah's armed resistance for a reference to our potential future.
Marshall
Gone Bass
Fishing
It ain't Vietnam...but they're learnin....figger it
takes a while to recover from Saddam who kept all this shit in check. A passive
population...Saddam conditioned is what we received, a gift if you will, from
The Demon.
No its not Vietam
Viet Minh had a nasty little gimmick...they'd stick the mutilated,
disemboweled dodies of French soldiers on pikes along the highway that French
forces were using and just outside a village...
Yet
Damn that 20/20 foresight's a bitch
New
nationalism that unites Iraq
April 11: William Pfaff, the award-winning
American columnist, begins a series of occasional commentaries for The Observer
with this dissection of the forces unleashed by Saddam's fall.
Try a pacifier.
Tony Blair and George W. Bush
must come to grips with the fact that they are not fighting 'terrorism' in Iraq,
they are fighting nationalism - a struggle they will lose sooner or later.
Whatever the mixture of religious and national passion that has gone into
creating the crisis in Iraq - and whatever its component of jihadist exaltées
from Afghanistan and apprentice mujahideen from Birmingham and the Paris suburbs
- it is essentially a nationalist phenomenon. It is of limited effect as yet,
but with explosive potential for the region.
The military effort to
suppress the multiple uprising may succeed in driving it underground for a time.
This kind of war all but
inevitably produces exemplary punishments of civilians, destruction of homes and
reprisals against the families of men fighting the occupation. This can suppress
resistance in a given place for a given time, but it promotes hatred and has a
brutalising effect on the troops involved, who can be demoralised by serving in
a moral climate of reprisals, 'wasting' civilians and an inability to
distinguish between enemy combatants and non-combatants.
We're fucked. Don't kid yourselves
And the Emperor of the
Adolescent Power Rangers has gone bass fishing.
Those who supported
this War on Iraq are a well-conditioned lot of dim wits.
Name: Scott D. Sather
Rank: Staff Sgt.
Branch of
Service: Air Force
Age: 29
Hometown: Clio
State: MI
Date of
Death: 04/08/03
A violent revolt broke out
in the eastern city of Baqubah, in which guerrillas mounted assaults on
government buildings and police stations. Fighting spread throughout the city,
only slowing down Saturday afternoon. Baqubah looked like a ghost town.
West Baghdad: Guerrillas attacked a fuel convoy Saturday, killing two US
soldiers and an Iraqi driver.
A 10 year-old-boy fired a rocket-propelled
grenade at a US tank west of Baghdad, hitting it and setting it on fire.
I am a TAXPAYER
Dammit I wanna REFUND
I know ..they told ME
Robin Wright of the Washington
Post goes Bernard Lewis one better with an insightful piece on What Went
Wrong with the American enterprise in Iraq. The Post is on a roll today, with an
excellent overview of how things spun out of control in recent weeks by Rajiv Chandrasekharan and Anthony Shadid
.
The article argues for arrogance and ignorance as motives in
coming after Muqtada and his people right before Arba'in. But I still wonder
about a darker side....
posted by Juan Cole at 4/11/2004 09:29:54 AM
"We went
in there thinking we could restructure the Arab world in a Western style. There
was a lemminglike drive to prove everyone is the same. That was doomed to
failure," he said.
"Guess what? They have a culture of their own, and
this is not a Kodak moment," Lang said. "It was a mistake of gargantuan
proportions."
"We spent months and months
resisting Sistani, never successfully," said Juan Cole, an Iraq expert at the
University of Michigan. "It would have been better to cooperate with him, since
he was a moderating force and a major source of moral authority. And the things
he was asking for were not injurious to the rebuilding of Iraq."
With the
benefit of hindsight, several experts said the coalition should have agreed to
elections last fall.
"We kept thinking we could win against
Sistani. We should have bit the bullet and held elections, but instead we
dillied and dallied for such a long time thinking he would relent. We completely
misunderstood," said Henri J. Barkey, former State Department policy planning
staffer and now chairman of Lehigh University's international relations
department.
"Many Iraq experts" may need hindsight..
Others
do not.
Is this not so, OH Wise Archivist?
Ou sont
Pincher Martin
109109
Caligula She Wolf of the SS
what's his name that jesus(small j) freak
from Michigan
Poor Paranoid Ronski
My dearest "Let's Roll" RosieOStoned
and the Love of My Life (you know who you are sweet cheeks xoxoxo)?
The deaths had not previously been announced
Name: Riayan A. Tejeda
Rank: Staff Sgt.
Branch of
Service: Marine Corps
Age: 26
Hometown: New York
State: NY
Date
of Death: 04/11/03
"Coalition casualties since the first of April run about 70
killed in action," the coalition's deputy director of operations, Brigadier
General Mark Kimmitt, told a press conference, adding that enemy casualties were
"ten times that amount."
posted by Juan Cole at 4/12/2004 08:32:23 AM
Percentage of them that
are Shiite: 10
Number of Shiites in the world: 130,000,000
Population of
Russia: 144,000,000
Distribution of Shiites: Majority in Iran, Iraq,
Bahrain, Azerbaijan; Plurality Lebanon; about 15% in Afghanistan, Pakistan; 5%
of Indian Muslims;
Percentage who would be enraged by a US Marines assault
on the Imam Ali Shrine in Najaf: 100 Obe Juan
Things are not looking
good.
British commanders condemn US military tactics
Senior
British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as
heavy-handed and disproportionate.
One senior officer said that
America's aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and
that there was a growing sense of "unease and frustration" among the British
high command.
The officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said part
of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the
Nazi expression for "sub-humans".
Speaking from his base in southern
Iraq, the officer said: "My view and the view of the British chain of command is
that the Americans' use of violence is not proportionate and is over-responsive
to the threat they are facing. They don't see the Iraqi people the way we see
them. They view them as untermenschen. They are not concerned about the Iraqi
loss of life in the way the British are."
It is not a coincidence that the
Brits have been doing so much better.
It's
the current leadership, arrogant in the extreme and completely unwilling to give
up the calculated tough-guy swagger for political reasons, that has let everyone
down. Look at Bush's mealymouthed comments about "gangs" who "hate democracy",
and Rumsfeld's similar comments, or even the idiotic chest-beating statements
from the flat-headed Baghdad-based "Coalition" spokesman.
--
By
the way, I don't see how "the Brits have been doing so much better." Please
support this statement.
I agree of
course about the leadership. The most idiotic statement was Rumsfield's when he
waved away the looting as "letting off steam". In retrospect much was lost
during those first weeks. Then, if ever, a firm hand would have been needed.
That the Brits have been doing better is a simple matter of observation
and doesn't need any support beyond that.
It's simple fact that the average Army recruit comes from
circumstances far from the "creme de la creme" of American society.
It's
precisely because of this that they are likely to harbor idealistic impressions
of their mission, and to even empathize with the Iraqi man-on-the-street.
For instant evidence of what i'm talking about, here is a quote (fully
believable) from this article from today's papers, about a family seeking the return
of two siblings after another has been killed in action.
Asked on
NBC's "Today" whether U.S. actions in Iraq were justified, Witmer said it was a
difficult issue to sort out, but he recalled daughter Michelle's comments.
"She felt that she had made a difference in that culture and that there
was a liberation that went on," he said. "She was also very concerned that if we
had a knee-jerk reaction to some of these horrible things that were happening,
that thousands of Iraqi people would suffer from a swift exit."
I
think the sentiments there are quite representative.
Defection of Iraqi Police Concerns U.S.
By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON -
Some U.S.-trained Iraqi policemen have defected to the insurgent forces of the
radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and some other Iraqi security forces have
failed to fulfill their duties in recent days, the top commander of U.S. forces
in the Middle East said Monday.
This seems significant to me but I'm sure it's
nothing Rumsfeld can't spin.
In my opinion, everytime the US gives
the Sharonites carte blanche to pull off another illegal/provocative manouever -
it costs the US possibilities in Iraq very dearly.
And, if this article about Sharon and his deal with the White House is
true, then you can start pricking the balloons of American intentions in Iraq
right away.
It ain't happening, in other words - you can't expect
America to be seen as a white knight in one part of Arab lands while backing the
bad guy to the hilt in another part. One wonders, do they actually really want
all hell to break loose? What's the percentage in total chaos and Arab fury?
The United States is to back Israeli demands for parts of the
occupied West Bank to be annexed by the Jewish state in any final peace
settlement with the Palestinians, according to diplomatic sources in Israel.
A leaked draft of a letter from President George W Bush says the White
House will state that a final status deal will recognise "demographic realities"
on the ground - code for allowing Israel to keep some Palestinian land settled
by Jews in the occupied territories.
ROBERT Novak: Generals Weary of Bush Troop Level Lies
They ain't gonna be the fall guy for Bush.
You see Pelle
ulimately the problem is Texas ...
No state in the Union can count as
many miserable military figures in its history
Remember the Alamo?
Again,
I ask, what's the percentage in chaos? There must be one, because one cannot
imagine that Bush would do such a thing in an election period otherwise.
Haaretz - Not since the Balfour Declaration has there been a document
that has raised so many expectations as the one President George Bush is
supposed to give Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, detailing American quid pro quos
for the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and four isolated settlements in the
northern West Bank.
But they have seemed to believe that their political future relies on
some measure of demonstrated success in Iraq/the ME.
Or do they not
believe that? Do they instead believe that a completely roiled ME will prompt
scared/cowed Americans to vote for the party they see as stronger on defense?
The question has to be asked, in a non-paranoid fashion, because it
seems that the Bushites are actually trying quite hard to stir up the Arab
world.
But what about political cost? This is not an
administration blinded to that.
This is hard to figure. I really don't
think they planned to cause this uprising. I really think that they thought they
could just insert Chalabi. In some ways, al Sistani's patience has hurt them,
because the wound was festering invisibly. Then they has a couple of events, one
for sure stupid and in their control--al Sadr's newspaper--the other true or
not, the Iraqis believe was done with American approval, the assassination in
Palestine.
That doesn't look like planning to me. It looks like
unforeseen consequence.
That the response from this president is to bear
down harder--that is, if the evidence indicates that the theory you are
operating under is false, throw out the evidence and apply the theory again--is
not surprising.
As for the political savvy of the administration, I
think they may be reaping the whirlwind for running their foreign policy
strictly on a political basis.
Watch Bush give Iraq the unifying
national identity everyone's been searching for..
If George can't do it,
nobody can
How absurd is that? The allegation (widely disbelieved in Iraq) is that
he is involved in the murder of another cleric (no one suggests that he did it
himself). Then, there is the move to shut down a paper associated with him.
This warrants "killing"? Government spokesmen speak in this manner? In a
country where they are supposedly looking to establish the rule of law.
It's like a bad parody. High Noon comes to Najaf.
Percentage who would be enraged by a US Marines assault on the Imam
Ali Shrine in Najaf: 100
They said that?!? This is what comes of using the military as
diplomats.
Where are the right wingers? Sincerely, confrontation of different world
views can be enlightening.
Check out the latest DANCE GEORGIE DANCE number from the Butcher of
Beruit...
MAALE ADUMIM, West Bank (Reuters) - Israel will keep its
largest West Bank settlements, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites)
said Monday before a trip to Washington to secure U.S. approval for his plans
for a unilateral Gaza pullout
Bush is lookin to stoke such a conflagration that US voters might say
"Oh my oh my...we can't change presidents in the middle of a disaster like this
no matter how much we dislike him"
iii. Jerusalem,
my happy home. Despite the unmistakable Father Coughlin note during much of NR's
existence, it is unlikely these modern-day Conquistadores would have consciously
betrayed American national interests to Madrid. But something happened in the
1980s both to change the location of NR's foreign utopia and intensify the
fanaticism of its editorial devotion.
By the end of the decade, they had
been purged by Buckley himself, a man whose ultramontanism is exceeded only by
his cynical opportunism. In a meandering NR pronunciamento that was breathtaking
in its betrayal,.. the old deities - Generalissimo Franco, Cardinal Mindszenty,
Ezra Pound, Pious XII - were pulled down from Mount Olympus, to be replaced by
new objects of worship: Benjamin Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon. The Alcazar was
out, the Third Temple was in.
Whereas NR's former defenses of
Austro-fascism were labored apologias, like G.K. Chesterton writing a Life of
St. Francis, the new NR read more like Communist Party propaganda during the
Popular Front period. The dissipated Buckley now seems to have lost all interest
in NR, leaving it to a dreary cabal of Zionist lunatics.
Americans have
seen this phenomenon before. From the Bolshevik Revolution till the end of the
cold war, members of the CPUSA stood in much the same relation to a foreign
power that the Zionistas at NR (and Weekly Standard and other pseudoconservative
organs) do. It is worth noting that William Z. Foster, head of the CPUSA in the
1930s, stated that "Communism is twentieth century Americanism." Doubtless the
commissars at NR would say something analogous about Zionism in the twenty-first
century.
This is my thought, today.
We know the Bushites aren't good at making things better, but now
they're fully exercising their talent for making things get worse.
We've
already seen the Right in this country make comments about the Spanish election
like (roughly) "unlike the Spanish, we don't change the government at the
dictates of terrorists" etc. This is a good set-up for "don't get rid of Dubya,
that's what the terrorists want you to do." And this post 9/11 electorate may, I
repeat may, be cowed enough to buy it enough to squeak by.
Depressing
scenario.
According to this Knight
Ridder report, "In
this one week, Fallujah has come to symbolize for Iraqis everything that is
wrong with the U.S.-led occupation of Iraq"
But the news media won't show pictures of
Iraqi dead and wounded, or of the overflowing hospitals and harassed doctors. It
only repeats that Faluja is where those four "American workers" were burned and
their bodies desecrated. And then it cuts to Army spokespeople expressing steely
resolve to go get "the bad guys."
Friedman needs to take a long vacation,
yes.
Born of
his NewsHour report on outsourcing, his comment: "Well they can't outsource me!"
"The whole aim of practical politics
is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by
menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H.L.
Mencken
"Naturally, the common people don't want war...but, after all
it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a
simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist
dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship...Voice or no voice,
the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works
the same way in any country." - Herman Goering at Nuremberg trial in 1946
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." - Franklin D. Roosevelt
IMO the military officers have been more competent than
the civilians to date, the Colonel from the 101st who defused a very bad
situation in Kerbala early in the occupation for example.
The quote that
I read from Sanchez was, The mission of U.S. forces is to kill or
capture Muqtada al-Sadr. That is our mission. My thought when I read this
was, "Well, missions change." It was ham handed and one wonders about the cowboy
"dead or alive" imagery that seems quite Texan.
Dubya, today.
From now on, I will be
whistling the theme from 'The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly' everytime we see the
Prez tip his imaginary Stetson and speak soulfully about the untamed frontier
that is Iraq.
But they ain't going
to git away with it, now hear.
Hatin' democracy, like that, it eats away
at yeh.
Just a matter of time befo' we gits them strung up just like
they done asked fer.
Good point. There has been
some very good diplomatic work by the Army.
But I also don't think that
Juan Cole's characterization of the British view of the dehumanization of the
Iraqis is incorrect. In these kinds of things, where kids and young women are
being killed, troops need to create a distance from themselves and those they
kill. Hence, racial slurs, dehumanization and so forth.
NAJAF, Iraq - The sons of
Iraq (news - web sites)'s top Shiite cleric and two other grand ayatollahs met
Monday with radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, telling him they oppose any U.S.
assault to capture him, a man who attended the meeting told The Associated
Press.
The rare gathering reflected the depth of Shiite Muslims
fears of military action in Najaf, their holiest city. The top cleric, Grand
Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani — a moderate who opposes anti-U.S. violence
— has long kept the young, vehemently anti-American al-Sadr at arm's length.
"They agreed not to allow any hostile act against Sayyed Moqtada
al-Sadr and the city of Najaf," said the man in the meeting, speaking on
condition of anonymity.
The
Iranian newspaper Baztab is reporting that Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani has sent
a strongly-worded message to the Coalition forces, in which he warned them
against attacking the Shiite shrine cities of Najaf and Karbala after the end of
Arba'in.
According to this report, in this letter Sistani warned the US
that were the Occupation forces to wage a campaign against Karbala and Najaf,
the religious leadership of the Shiites would fight to its last breath for the
rights of the Shiites.
Since the fall of the Saddam regime, Sistani has
called upon Shiites to be cautious about opposing the US troops, despite his
clear distaste for their presence. He has instead attempted to hasten elections
for a popularly elected, legitimate Iraqi government. ( Persian link
here. )
posted by Juan Cole at 4/13/2004 06:33:57 AM
It was not clear whether
it was mortars or rockets that were fired at the heavily guarded complex, but
one fell short, hitting near the banks of the Tigris River, leaving a deep
crater but causing no other damage.
An army spokesman said the
convoy, traveling from Baquba to Najaf, was hit just after midnight by a
roadside bomb planted south of Baghdad. The wounded were taken on to Najaf and
were in a stable condition.
Name: Thomas A. Foley III
Rank: Spc.
Branch of
Service: Army
Age: 23
Hometown: Dresden
State: TN
Date of Death:
04/14/03
US Helicopter Down, Rescue Team Attacked
US MH-53
helicopter has crashed southeast of Falluja and marines who rushed to secure the
crash site came under attack and sustained casualties.
Cole:
I think it most unlikely that the terms of the negotiations reported above will
be acceptable to the United states. Coalition spokesmen continued to talk about
capturing or killing Muqtada. The tough talk may be intended to put pressure on
him to surrender, but if so it is a miscalculation. Muqtada is a millenarian who
thinks the world is about to end, and for the foreigners to discuss killing him
might well drive him to seek the advent of the apocalypse through a call for
more violence.
Priceless
artefacts still missing in Iraq
I feel a road trip coming on....
Where shall I go??
EUREKA!
The Potemkin
Village of Hope, THe Perfect World, LittleFreeper MoronLand USA!
The
report about Sistani's strongly-worded message to the US warning them against
attacking Najaf is now available in English.
Some 2500 US troops
surround Najaf, and Muqtada al-Sadr says he is willing to sacrifice himself for
Iraq. CNN
says that those clerics negotiating with Sadr have warned the US not to come
into Najaf, and have darkly intimated that the ones who caused the crisis
"must pay." It is not clear if they mean the Army of the Mahdi or Paul Bremer,
or both.
Head's up: I'll be on the Lehrer Newshour today, Tuesday
4/13.
posted by Juan Cole at 4/13/2004 04:51:35 PM
The AC 130 gunship fired 105 and
40 millimeter rounds at two buildings used to ambush Marines on Tuesday when
rocket-propelled grenades disabled two Marine armoured amphibious assault
vehicles (AAVs), the Marine officer said.
Guess the soldiers
don't want their commanders to be identified as war criminals
Wednesday
April 14, 2004 4:16 PM (The Guardian)
By ROBERT BURNS
AP
Military Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - For American forces in Iraq, these
are the deadliest days of the war. At least 87 U.S. troops have been killed in
action so far this month, with the most recent death announced on Tuesday. Also
this month, more than 560 have been wounded and two soldiers were declared
missing. At least four American civilians were killed, one contractor was
captured by gunmen and six others were missing and feared abducted.
The
number wounded so far in April exceeds the total for any other full month of the
war by more than 220.
In early June 1920, Gertrude
Bell, the extraordinary woman who helped run Iraq for Britain, wrote a letter to
her father on some "violent agitation" against British rule: "[The extremists]
have adopted a line difficult in itself to combat, the union of the Shi'ah and
Sunni, the unity of Islam. And they are running it for all it's worth ...
There's a lot of semi-religious semi-political preaching ... and the underlying
thought is out with the infidel. My belief is that the weightier people are
against it—I know some of them are bitterly disgusted—but it's very difficult to
stand out against the Islamic cry and the longer it goes on the more difficult
it gets." In fact, the "agitation" quickly turned into a mass (mostly Shia)
revolt. British forces were able to crush it over three long months, but only
after killing almost 10,000 Iraqis, suffering about 500 deaths themselves and
spending the then exorbitant sum of 50 million pounds. After the 1920 revolt,
the British fundamentally reoriented their strategy in Iraq. They abandoned
plans for ambitious nation-building and instead sought a way to transfer power
quickly to trustworthy elites.
JUAN COLE: Well, they're both rivals and supporters. You have to think about
the Shiite establishment as a group of cousins. Some of them might not like some
of the cousins very much but if a group of outsiders came and beat them up, all
the cousins would get together to defend the one beaten up whether they liked
him or not. And it's the same thing with Muqtada.
He is a black sheep
and has formed this militia. He speaks very militantly. He has threatened
Sistani in the past, so he's not liked. But the Shiite clergy of Najaf is not
going to sit idly by while the United States invades their holy city and takes
one of their own into captivity or kills him. If the United States proceeds in
that manner, it will be the beginning of a long-term, low-grade Shiite guerilla
insurgency in the south similar to what we have seen in the Sunni Arab areas
Cole and Gerecht on Shiites of Iraq (Lehrer Newshour Text)
Anthony
Shadid: This is my own opinion, but I think it's pretty bad here. From my
own experience, we're dealing with the greatest insecurity since the fall of
Saddam. Is it a crisis? It feels that way. Can the U.S. administration recover?
Probably. But you definitely hear Iraqis calling for a decisive change in the
approach -- perhaps less of a military response, more of a political one, and a
greater reliance on Iraqi voices than those embodied by the Governing Council.
Anonymous: How deep is the new-found unity
between the Shiites and the Sunni? Was it only temporary and tactical?
Anthony Shadid: I've heard time and again over the past week in
interviews that the prospect of civil war seems farther away than any time since
the collapse of Saddam's government. The simultaneous U.S. crackdown on both
Sunni and Shiite strongholds -- Fallujah and Sadr City -- generalized the
violence, in a way. When neighbors come under attack, ideology takes a back seat
to survival and cooperation. Is it long-lasting? I don't know. There are still
potentially explosive questions, shadowed by issues of sect and ethnicity, that
have to be resolved before a permanent government takes power. But what we've
witnessed over the past week, in terms of Sunni-Shiite cooperation, is
remarkable. You once could go through neighborhoods and know immediately who you
were talking to -- a Sunni or a Shiite. You can't do that anymore.
Well, this will ensure that the Arab world remains mightily pissed off
at the US, but - thankfully - it does not go quite as far as anticipated.
Have some kreplach
Bush
Reverses Course, Back Sharon's Plan
WASHINGTON - In a historic
policy break, President Bush (news - web sites) on Wednesday endorsed Israel's
plans to retain West Bank settlements in any peace accord with the Palestinians.
Bush also ruled out the return of Palestinian refugees to Israel.
An elated Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites)
said his plan to pull back from parts of the West Bank and Gaza, hailed by Bush,
would create "a new and better reality for the state of Israel."
But
Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia — with whom the Bush administration
deals while boycotting leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) — strongly
criticized Bush's move.
"He is the first president who has
legitimized the settlements in Palestinian territories," Qureia said of Bush.
"We as Palestinians reject that. We cannot accept that. We reject it and we
refuse it." Arafat had earlier called the idea "the complete end of the peace
process."
Get
Rid of Your Puppet Government
There has been a lot of
criticism about the way Al-Arabia and Al-Jazeera were covering the riots and
fighting in Falloojeh and the south this last week. Some American spokesman for
the military was ranting about the "spread of anti-Americanism" through networks
like the abovementioned.
.................................................
...I wish every person who emails me supporting the war, safe behind
their computer, secure in their narrow mind and fixed views, could actually come
and experience the war live. I wish they could spend just 24 hours in Baghdad
today and hear Mark Kimmett talk about the death of 700 "insurgents" like it was
a proud day for Americans everywhere...
Still, when I hear talk about
"anti-Americanism" it angers me. Why does American identify itself with its
military and government? Why is does being anti-Bush and anti-occupation have to
mean that a person is anti-American? We watch American movies, listen to
everything from Britney Spears to Nirvana and refer to every single brown, fizzy
drink as "Pepsi".
I hate American foreign policy and its constant
meddling in the region... I hate American tanks in Baghdad and American soldiers
on our streets and in our homes on occasion... why does that mean that I hate
America and Americans? Are tanks, troops and violence the only face of America?
If the Pentagon, Department of Defense and Condi are "America", then yes- I hate
America.
BAGHDAD, Iraq April 15 — A U.N. envoy proposed Wednesday that the
U.S.-appointed Governing Council cease to exist June 30 and said the United
States should surrender sovereignty to a "caretaker" government of respected
Iraqis.
U.N. Undersecretary-General Lakhdar Brahimi said the new
government should be led by a prime minister, a president and two vice
presidents until elections are held in January.
The
proposed new structure would give Washington a way to dissolve the fractious and
unpopular 25-member Governing Council named by the United States.
Grand Ayatollah????
Kerry has checkmated Bush....Kerry's internationalization proposal kills
what slim chance there was that Bush would suddenly reverse his neo-Imperialist
unilateral bungling.
Fallujah: symbol of resistance
Fallujah has become the turning point for
the occupation of Iraq. Until now, Iraqi anger at the U.S. was widespread but
diffused; and polls showed that Iraqis still hoped that the invasion would
eventually lead to brighter future. The past seven days have changed all that,
as pictures of dead children fill the TV screens across the nation.
According to this Knight Ridder report, "In this one week, Fallujah has come
to symbolize for Iraqis everything that is wrong with the U.S.-led occupation of
Iraq.
And Fallujah has made an intractable situation for the US
ultimately untenable.
No foreign occupying power has ever prevailed
against a nationalist insurgency in the 20th century.
Think Marines
hanging off of helicopter runners.
If it checks out, it looks like a turning point
for Iraq... a very positive one.
What was Muqtada al Sadr yesterday?
Terrorist? Nationalist hothead? Wild-eyed millenarist?
Today, he looks
like a masterful politician.
The guts of it :
Gen Ricardo Sanchez,
commander of coalition forces in Iraq, has said that his soldiers would "capture
or kill" Sadr.
But Mr Aziz suggested that Sadr might agree to go before
a "legitimate" Iraqi court after power is transferred to a sovereign government
on June 30.
He added that if these conditions were met, Sadr would agree
to disband his militia, the Army of the Mahdi, which has proved itself a
formidable military force.
"He will dissolve the Mahdi Army and it will
become another social or political organisation for improving the condition of
the Iraqi people," said Mr Aziz.
It
looks to me like Sadr has mastered the timetable and dictated the scenario over
the last couple of weeks.
The Mahdi uprising happened exactly when the
marines were sent in to exact vengeance on Falluja.
Coincidence? I don't
think so.
Look at the results : Sadr has suddenly become a respected
figure of Iraqi nationalism.
The resistence in Falluja is necessarily
faceless (or, rather, the town itself has become a symbol of Iraqi nationalism
-- gratifying in itself for the Sunni scapegoats/pariahs). Sadr symbolically
raised the standard of revolt at the same time : he has piggy-backed on the
deaths of Falluja, at relatively little cost to his own forces.
So : he
has helped to foster a sense of national identity (everyone has noted the
Shia/Sunni solidarity aspects of these events); he has become the sole visible
face of the revolt, therefore ingratiating himself psychologically to all
iraqis, regardless of their religion or politics; he has negotiated an end to
the silly "capture or kill" fatwa of the Americans.
At what price? He
will turn himself in to (a post-June, hypothetical, sovereign Iraqi) justice.
Having turned his militia, meantime, into a (well-armed) political party.
COLE:
Muqtada
Agrees to Dissolve Militia, May go into temporary exile in Iran
az-Zaman reports that Muqtada al-Sadr has accepted a solution of the
problems between him and the Coalition on the basis of a deal. It would provide
for the senior ayatollahs to issue a ruling or fatwa dissolving the Army of the
Mahdi, Muqtada's militia. Muqtada surrender to the grand ayatollahs and agree to
have Abdul Karim al-Unzi (an official of the Da`wa Party) negotiate for him with
the Americans, in the name of the top religious leaders. Muqtada would accept
the outcome of those negotiations without condition.
Iran would offer
him temporary asylum, until June 30 and the formation of a sovereign Iraqi
government, at which time he could report to Najaf for his trial. In return, the
US would withdraw its forces from the environs of Najaf.
A slightly
different account is offered by John Burns of the NYT.
The Iranian
delegation, led by Hossain Sadeqi, the director general of the Iranian Foreign
Ministry, is heading to the shrine cities from Baghdad. Sadeqi should be seen as
a man of President Mohammad Khatami, the reformer.
Meanwhile, Supreme
Jurisprudent Ali Khamenei of Iran complained that the Americans said they were
bringing democracy to Iraq, but that they have begun butchering people in that
country. (Khamenei probably felt the need to put down the US to divert criticism
for cooperating with them in helping resolve the Sadr case).
Look for
further updates later in the day . . .
So after June 30 he arrives
in a triumphal march through Sadr City!
Georgie
ride em shetland pony!
In the twelve-course meal that is the war in Iraq, America has just
been served the first entree. The fight with Iraq’s state armed forces was
merely the amuse-bouche. The subsequent guerilla war with the Baath, as
distasteful as we found it, was still just the appetizer. Over the past two
weeks, we have been presented with the first of the main courses, Fourth
Generation war waged for religion. If, as is traditional, this is the fish
course, our reaction suggests it is flounder.
Frankly, I was surprised
how quickly this dish arrived. It seems Mohammed’s kitchen is working rather
more speedily than usual. While a broadening and intensifying of the
anti-American resistance was inevitable, I did not think it would reach its
present intensity until this summer. The fact that is has erupted so early has
political as well as military implications. The full scope of our disaster in
Syracuse – er, sorry, Iraq – may be evident before the party conventions, as
well as prior to the fall election. Might Bush do an LBJ and choose not to run?
Will a Kerry who voted for the war be a credible nominee? Military disaster can
displace all sorts of certainties.
It is not yet a disaster, some may
say. On the tactical level, that is true, although it may not be true much
longer. But on the strategic level it is not just one disaster, it is four:
On War #63
“Your Fish, Sir”
By William S. Lind
Ace's
win-win situation?
I sure would hate to see a Bush lose-lose
One stunning Gorelick conflict emerged at Tuesday's
public commission hearing: Attorney General John Ashcroft disclosed that in
1995, Gorelick - while deputy attorney general under Bill Clinton - wrote a memo
ordering the FBI to separate counterintelligence work from criminal
investigations.
As Ashcroft put it, this memo - which went beyond what
federal law required - erected a legal wall between the FBI and CIA, creating
"the single greatest structural cause for September 11."
As it turns
out, the memo is just the tip of the iceberg concerning Gorelick's questionable
fitness as a member of the panel.
That's because she's a litigation
partner in one of Washington's most high-powered Democratic law firms - Wilmer,
Cutler & Pickering.
And that firm represents Prince Mohammed
al-Faisal al-Saud, a member of the Saudi royal family and director of a key
Saudi financial agency, against a lawsuit filed by a coalition of 600 Sept. 11
families.
The prince is chairman of Dar al-Maal al-Islami (DMI), which
boasts $1 billion in assets.
One of its subsidiaries is the Al-Shamil
Islamic Bank, whose directors include Osama bin Laden's half-brother and his
brother-in-law.
Damn, he's good.
(I would just like to note that I made the
reference to the Peloponnesian war in this thread a year ago)
Underscoring the lawlessness sweeping Iraq, an Iranian diplomat was
killed near the Iranian mission in Baghdad. Iran state television named him as
first secretary Khalil Naimi.
A Reuters correspondent saw a body slumped
in a car with at least two bullet holes in it, smashed against a lamp-post. "We
have been told that he was driving his car to go to the embassy and three men
drove up and shot him," an Iranian official said.
An Iranian delegation
has been in Iraq to help mediate between U.S.-led authorities and Shi'ite cleric
Moqtada al-Sadr.
So, now we know (few thanks to the 9/11 Commission) that:
1)Gorelick is behind the structural communications breakdown that
prevented sharing of information that could have stopped 9/11.
2)Doris
Meissner, while at INS during the Xlowntoon Administration, was behind the
weakening of visa and immigration rules which allowed the terrorists to gain
easy access to the U.S.
3)Pinocchio Bore involved in recommending
standards for airport security.
4) The Xlowntoon Administration dictated
zero tolerance for 'ethnic profiling' that at one time would have nabbed the
9/11 terrorists before they could ever could have board an airplane.
The
Xlowntoon Administration could have hardly set the table for Al Qeada any better
if they were a sleeper cell themselves.
I say unfortunately because
they started down the road of empire, but now find that the tactics that
supported empires in the past are no longer supportable. This leaves them out on
a limb with nowhere to go; no means to go either forward and no means to go back
without humbling themselves and giving up on their imperial ambitions.
"We were misled" about the
presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Feinstein said. "These are very
serious things to say, and I don't say them easily, but I believe them to be
true."
If the sole reason for the invasion of Iraq was to oust Saddam
Hussein, "I don't think there would have been 77 votes (in October 2002) in the
United States Senate to authorize the use of force. There certainly would not
have been my vote, and there may not have even been a majority of votes."
Feinstein said many people had watched the president's news conference
hoping he would indicate the details of his plan to turn management of Iraq to a
sovereign, provisional government.
"He didn't," she said. "The problem
is there is no plan that I know of to turn over the government. To whom would
you turn it over? ... It is mid-April, the turnover comes on June 30, and the
situation in Iraq is deteriorating. We need a plan."
April 15, Timothy Garton
Ash: With Iraq in chaos, we need a new entente cordiale and President Kerry in
the White House.
TD, ârrète de parler, merdre de tête!
But better for the war against terrorism; better for the Middle East;
better for Europe; and, yes, better for the United States. The invasion of Iraq
was, as Talleyrand remarked in another context, "worse than a crime; it was a
mistake".
Zut allors!
the Order of Pinocchio, First
Class, with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds
What advice did the DoD ask for and receive from her and the Justice
Department on that subject?
The Commission needs to find out. Under
oath.
DOA
TD...just like Bush
Read it and weep ...weep
for the dead and the dying
Reconstructing Iraq
The Command Post: Discussion on Army
War College Monograph On Reconstructing Iraq
Iraq
War Predictions and Reality
Comparison of pre-war Iraq
War of 2003 commentary and predictions vs. Reality ... What the Army War College
Predicted. War Costs. Pre-War Commentary ... RECONSTRUCTING IRAQ: INSIGHTS,
CHALLENGES, AND MISSIONS FOR MILITARY FORCES IN A POST-CONFLICT SCENARIO ...
CIA Warned of Attacks As Early As '95
The 1997 assessment,
which remains classified, "identified bin Laden and his followers and threats
they were making and said it might portend attacks inside the United States,"
the official said.
Philip Zelikow, executive director of the Sept. 11
commission, confirmed the 1997 warning about bin Laden but said it was only two
sentences long and lacked any strategic analysis on how to address the threat.
"We were well aware of the information and the staff stands by exactly what it
says," he said.
The intelligence official also said that while the 1995
intelligence assessment did not mention bin Laden or al-Qaida by name, it
clearly warned that Islamic terrorists were intent on striking specific targets
inside the United States like those hit on Sept. 11, 2001.
The report
specifically warned that civil aviation, Washington landmarks such as the White
House and Capitol and buildings on Wall Street were at the greatest risk of a
domestic terror attack by Muslim extremists, the official said.
Any
fuckwit going to say this post is all about politics?
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration on Thursday welcomed a U.N. envoy's
plan for a caretaker government to succeed the U.S. administration in Baghdad.
Secretary of State Colin Powell called envoy Lakhdar
Brahimi's proposal "very sound." But he also told the Canadian Broadcasting
Corp. more consultations with the United Nations and other interested parties
were needed.
State Department spokesman Richard Boucher called the
proposal a serious contribution to the search for a transition from the U.S.
occupation, which is due to end June 30, to Iraqi elections sometime next
year.
Kean Interest
Can't say I didn't see this coming what
with a certain compromised committee member.
Well, those families
can go straight to hell along with the 9/11 victims, as far as Gorelick is
concerned. Haven't they figured out that she is bought and paid for by Xlowntoon
operatives and that Saudi bin Laden front company?
She'll probably try to cut her personal losses, even if the 9/11
Commission goes down in flames as a result.
The
report's gonna come out. Kean and Hamilton have done a fine job. The issues are,
in fact, obvious and well known. The public record is clear, and the "all of a
sudden it turns out these documents don't really have to be classified" record
hasn't changed anything much.
And, you know, the report's gonna say some
bad things about the Clinton response. As it should.
But 9/11 happened
on the Bush watch. The reaction to 9/11 happened there too. And it's not a
pretty picture. That's why the stonewalling. That's why the latest set of
smears. Because the Bushies are not interested in good public policy. They are
not interested in getting it right. They are interested in retaining power.
Period. And all they know is lies and smears.
The poetic justice is that
they're going to get all of their stonewalls breaking down over the next six
months. If they'd approached this enormous intelligence failure in good faith,
and tried to fix things, this particular report wouldn't be so threatening--the
president wouldn't have had to stammer incoherently in prime time. If they'd
done the work to make a humanitarian case against Iraq, involving allies, Bush
wouldn't to spout the obviously false claim that in Saddam's absence, American's
are safer (as dozens die in the theatre).
If they'd conducted their
energy policy discussions in the open, instead of emulating Hilary's health care
discussions, there'd be no Supreme Court case.
And if they'd just stop
freakin' lying at the drop of a hat, they'd not have to bob and weave on every
issue. You can get away with this kind of thing during a campaign to an election
in your first term, with an opponent who's easy for the press and public to
dislike. It's a different story once you've built up a record.
The
tipping point's been reached. It's now an uphill climb for the incumbent.
I think the actual longer term objective of the Bush Administration
would not go over to well with much of the Arab street outside of Iraq;
particularly the Islamic nutcases, and that is that if Iraq can be established
as a democratic nation, that it will probably influence the entire Mideast to
move in the same direction, which is an infinitely more forward looking and
proactive policy than the less than worthless Xlowntoonian coddling of the
Taliban and attempts to ignore the depredations of Al Qaeda, etc.
Documents prove
oil-for-food corruption involving world leaders
In a scathing
letter sent to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on March 3, which he made
available to Insight, Hankes-Drielsma called the U.N. program "one of the
world's most disgraceful scams," and said that "based on the facts as I know
them at the present time, the U.N. failed in its responsibility to the Iraqi
people and the international community at large."
In an earlier letter
to Annan, to which he received no reply, Hankes-Drielsma noted that allocations
of "very significant supplies of crude oil [were] made to ... individuals with
political influence in many countries, including France and Jordan," both of
which supported Saddam and his regime to the bitter end.
"Give France a
break," says French ambassador to the United States Jean-David Levitte, writing
in the Los Angeles Times.
Oil-for-food, Halliburton & Friends... all
pretty stinky.
Meanwhile, there has been a major policy reversal in the
Bush administration... something I've been calling for, for well over a year...
The "B" team (Rumsfeld & co) are being sidelined : is Powell back in
the saddle?
NYT : Brahimi
proposals acceptable to Bush
Rice says there is no problem with
them... Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, without explicitly approving it
said it was likely to become a reality... and Powell is positively effusive
: Mr. Powell told the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that Mr. Brahimi's
proposal "reflects some very, very good thinking" and "a great deal of wisdom
and experience" on his part/i>
The outlines look good : the UN would select an interim government,
and supervise the run-up to elections in 2005. The US would continue to provide
the grunts and the bucks.
So, in effect, a handover of sovereignty at
the end of June may still be feasible...
but effectively, sovereignty is
handed over to the UN.
Mr. Rumsfeld said that since the Brahimi plan
was deemed "a reasonable one" by State Department and White House officials,
"the odds favor a model something like what Mr. Brahimi announced."
(I'm not gloating or anything)
Spurned
Blair in plea to Bush
but...
Britain was not the only power shut
out of the decision making process that produced a shift in US policy towards
the Middle East. During the weeks of diplomacy, it became increasingly clear
that national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and her aides were the driving
force behind the move to endorse Mr Sharon's vision of the future.
Their
growing influence came at the expense of the secretary of state, Colin Powell,
who reportedly was opposed to this break with tradition, as were career
diplomats.
The closing paragraphs:
In many minds, there are now two major occupations of Arab land by
outside powers, the West Bank and Iraq. This perception is a very dangerous
development for Americans seeking legitimacy in Iraq and the Muslim world.
The massive U.S. assault on Fallujah created a situation in which
political forces not on very good terms with one another put aside their
differences to unite against the U.S. Palestinians and Iraqis tend to differ
about whether the U.S. removal of Saddam Hussein from power was a good thing.
Almost all Iraqis agree that it was. But both concur that Israeli occupation and
punitive measures toward Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are wrong.
Likewise, radical Sunnis and radical Shiites do not for the most part
like each other very much. But they were capable of joining together to send
tens of relief trucks in a convoy to aid Fallujah. This forging of new bonds
among forces that reject both the now-formalized process of annexation by Israel
of Palestinian territory and the continued U.S. occupation of Iraq signals that
the U.S. is losing the battle for hearts and minds. Once such attitudes harden,
they are extremely difficult to overturn. Fallujah may be one of those
historical turning points, where the stronger power wins militarily but loses
all legitimacy in the eyes of those for whom it is supposedly fighting.
WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) secretly ordered a war
plan drawn up against Iraq (news - web sites) less than two months after U.S.
forces attacked Afghanistan (news - web sites) and was so worried the decision
would cause a furor he did not tell everyone on his national security team, says
a new book on his Iraq policy.
Bush feared that if news got out about
the Iraq plan as U.S. forces were fighting another conflict, people would think
he was too eager for war...
In August 2002, when Bush talked publicly of
being a patient man who would weigh Iraqi options carefully, the vice president
took the administration's Iraq policy on a harder track in a speech declaring
the weapons inspections ineffective. Cheney's speech was viewed as the beginning
of a campaign to undermine or overthrow Saddam. Woodward said Bush let
Cheney make the speech without asking what he would say.
The Bush administration requested
Syria's participation in "calming the situation" in Iraq. Bashar al-Asad
received letters from Bush and Colin Powell concerning bilateral relations and
Iraq.
al-Hayat:
At the same time, Gen. Myers insisted that
foreign fighters continued to infiltrate from Syria and Iran, criticizing the
two countries for seeking their interests or protecting themselves.
Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage announced that he would
undertake a tour of Gulf countries to seek their help in dealing with the
"problems in the Sunni area" of Iraq, and asking them to play a political role
in containing the situation there. He said he just wanted them to reassure the
Sunni Arabs that they would have a place in the new Iraq, but was not asking for
the dispatch of Gulf troops. Since Armitage has just had the rug pulled out from
under him with regard to Arab diplomacy by Bush's
formal induction into the Likud Party on Thursday as a back bencher for his
party leader Ariel Sharon, it is a little unlikely that Arab diplomats are going
to want to do any favors for the US right about now.
in the Bush
administration, the Pentagon has its own foreign policy, which competes with and
often trumps the foreign policy of the State Department and the National
Security Council. Thus, Gen. Myers is pointing fingers at Iran and Syria and
making all sorts of wild accusations at them, darkly hinting they will be
overthrown if they don't shape up.
posted by Juan Cole at 4/16/2004 08:15:16 AM
Cole's
piece on Fallujah and its connection to the Palestine issue is online at
Salon.com.
Readers interested in this angle will also benefit from Tom Engelhardt's "The
American Legacy in Iraq" at Tomdispatch.com.
See also the always
essential Josh
Marshall's Talking Points Memo for the important point that the US has
abandoned the principle of a negotiated settlement in favor of unilateral action
by the stronger party.
The credibility of the US in the Middle East as a
broker is finished, kaput, nada, zero. And the problem is that there is no other
credible broker.
Outraged by President Bush's embrace of
Ariel Sharon and the bloody U.S. assault on Fallujah, the Arab world is linking
America's occupation with Israel's. That's ominous
The American neoconservative linkage between Iraq and the Likud
was first revealed in a position paper, "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,"
written by Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, David Wurmser and other
neoconservatives for incoming Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996.
They advocated an Iraq war, the destruction of the Oslo peace process, the
refusal ever to return territories occupied by Israel in 1967, and using a
conquered Iraq as a means of pacifying the Lebanese Hezbollah.
At the
time, such positions were regarded as wildly radical: Today they have become
U.S. policy.
Nearly two years ago I argued that the invasion of
Iraq had nothing to do with the non-existent WMD's, nohting to do with any
threat from Saddam, nothing really even to do with Saddam himself except to
secure his country as a client-state/colony from which Bush could launch
military operations in support of future Sharon attacks on Palestinians.
Clearly the American people would not have supported Bush's War on
Iraq if he had told the truth.
Anatol Lieven- Senior Associate at the
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington DC
October 2002
Nose Camera Footage of an Apache Killing Iraqis
"People don't like armed missionaries" Robespierre
by William Lind - Defense & the National Interest
In the twelve-course meal that is the war in Iraq, America
has just been served the first entree. The fight with Iraq’s state armed forces
was merely the amuse-bouche. The subsequent guerilla war with the Baath, as
distasteful as we found it, was still just the appetizer. Over the past two
weeks, we have been presented with the first of the main courses, Fourth
Generation war waged for religion. If, as is traditional, this is the fish
course, our reaction suggests it is flounder.
Frankly, I was surprised
how quickly this dish arrived. It seems Mohammed’s kitchen is working rather
more speedily than usual. While a broadening and intensifying of the
anti-American resistance was inevitable, I did not think it would reach its
present intensity until this summer. The fact that is has erupted so early has
political as well as military implications. The full scope of our disaster in
Syracuse – er, sorry, Iraq – may be evident before the party conventions, as
well as prior to the fall election.
Military disaster can displace all
sorts of certainties.
It is not yet a disaster, some may say. On the
tactical level, that is true, although it may not be true much longer. But on
the strategic level it is not just one disaster, it is four
A new terrorist document shows that as the U.S. flails in
Iraq, only al-Qaida seems to have a strategy.
There's that word
"flails". A metaphor I have used several times...
The Bush
administration isn't fighting a war on Radcal Islamist terror it is flailing
one.
The War on Iraq and Bush's endorsement of Israeli West Bank
conquests will make it all but impossible to fight the only real enemy out
there, and nearly so, even if we succeed in our own efforts at regime change.
A $600 million annual aid
package for five years helps Musharraf retain power, and his military and
intelligence services periodically nab and hand over al-Qaida figures to the
United States in return. But the flipping of Musharraf can hardly be described a
policy achievement. Pakistan obviously had strategic reasons of its own to back
the Taliban and for turning a blind eye to al-Qaida. Those reasons are unlikely
to change without a change in Pakistan's leadership or system of government.
But the Pakistani military retreated in a recent showdown with
al-Qaida supporters in its tribal region bordering Afghanistan, and the Saudis
can hardly be expected to suddenly clamp down on the extremist jihadist ideology
they have espoused and funded for several decades. All this points toward an ad
hoc flexing of muscle, not a comprehensive strategy to root out extremist
ideologies, promote democracy, and eliminate terrorism. Meanwhile, the United
States flails in Iraq, swatting at one fly after another. Only al-Qaida seems to
have a strategy.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
About the
writer
Husain Haqqani is a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for
International Peace in Washington, D.C. He served as adviser to Prime Ministers
Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif and as Pakistan's ambassador to Sri Lanka.
Would you like me to show you the way out of this Moronic
non-sequitur?
You have only to ask
While Americans tried to shake off days of fierce guerrilla attacks
in Iraq (news - web sites) and wondered whether their leaders have detoured into
a quagmire, the last surviving Kennedy brother tapped into a flood of painful
memories by calling the U.S. occupation of Iraq "George Bush's Vietnam."
A Reuters survey of academic
experts, former diplomats, Vietnam veterans and activists, supporters of the
president and detractors, found that while virtually all agree that Vietnam and
Iraq are different wars, the chance of a misadventure based on false
assumptions is a real and present danger.
Former National
Security Agency head Gen. William Odom, the co-author of a new book, "America's
Inadvertent Empire," cautioned, "The problem with analogies is that they always
break down but they can be instructive. In many ways Iraq is not Vietnam at all.
There is more at stake than what we had in Vietnam."
Odom said
that one policy option the government might want to consider is to "get out in
boats ... but neither the administration nor (likely Democratic presidential
candidate John) Kerry are thinking about that because there is a climate now
where this thing cannot be discussed in a detached manner."
Where do you see our position right now?
WILSON: Well, I think we're fucked
Amb Joseph Wilson
The whole world is waking up to the fact
that the Emperor's got no clothes on!
Brit
Press Pisses on Poodle
Acie I ache for you....
LONDON (AFP) - Britain's press gave Prime Minister Tony Blair
(news - web sites) some credit for Washington's belated backing for a greater UN
role in Iraq (news - web sites), but maintained he was still acting as US
President George W. Bush (news - web sites)'s "poodle".
The Financial
Times was not so convinced by the bonhomie. For London's respected business
paper the couple exhibited only a "facade of unity" based on a shared faith in
the need for greater UN input in Iraq.
"The prime minister says he
discusses policy differences openly with Mr Bush in private, but so long as he
refuses to discuss the widening gap publicly, it will be easy for critics to
deride him as the president's poodle," said the FT.
America feels
mama's pain..
Tony Blair rejected George Bush's offer of keeping
British troops out of Iraq, it emerged yesterday, as the two leaders mounted a
united front on the year-long campaign.
The US president welcomed his
closest ally to the White House on a day when an impressively sourced book by
the Watergate journalist Bob Woodward laid bare damaging revelations of their
conduct in the run-up to the war.
In the book, Plan of Attack, Mr
Woodward writes that Mr Bush offered Mr Blair the option of keeping British
troops out of the war because he was so concerned that the government might
fall. Mr Blair rejected the offer.
The book, to be serialised in the
Washington Post today, also says that Mr Bush asked the Pentagon to draw up
plans for the invasion of Iraq as early as November 2001, keeping it a secret
from the CIA and his national security staff.
The disclosures are
provocative. Mr Blair will be asked to justify a decision to go to war when he
had a chance to keep British troops out of harm's way with no political
sanction.
That Woodward's a real snake in the grass. His
previous book, also based on interviews grantedly personally by His Imperial
Majesty and WarLord of the Armadillo Legions, obviously conned the con
artists...
IF you enjoyed Clarke's Bush Ball Crusher...just wait..
tick..tick..tick..
All in His Imbecilities Own Words....
In 1988 Sat. Nite Live ran a Dukasis skit, "How the hell did I lose
to this guy?"
They should run another "How in the hell did America give
this numb nuts a 70% approval rating?"
Ace...you numb my nuts
x0x0x0
Tenet provided his ironclad guarantee to the president after an aide led a
Dec. 21, 2002, intelligence presentation at the White House featuring
communication intercepts, satellite photos and diagrams.
"Bush responded
after the session: "Nice try. I don't think this quite - it's not something that
Joe Public would understand or would gain a lot of confidence from," Woodward
writes in his new book, "Plan of Attack."
"The president then turned to
Tenet and said, "I've been told all this intelligence about having WMD and this
is the best we've got?"
"'It's a slam-dunk case,' Tenet replied,
prompting Bush to press him again, 'George, how confident are you?'
"'Don't worry, it's a slam-dunk case,' the nation's top spymaster
repeated."
Anybody buying this?
The most lying crooked bunch I have ever seen and I was in
Washington DC during Watergate.
Blair refused offer of Iraq get-out
Revelations about
run-up to war blight bid to present united front.
Tony Blair rejected George Bush's offer of keeping British troops out
of Iraq, it emerged yesterday, as the two leaders mounted a united front on the
year-long campaign.
The US president welcomed his closest ally to the White
House on a day when an impressively sourced book by the Watergate journalist Bob
Woodward laid bare damaging revelations of their conduct in the run-up to the
war.
In the book, Plan of Attack, Mr Woodward writes that Mr Bush
offered Mr Blair the option of keeping British troops out of the war because he
was so concerned that the government might fall. Mr Blair rejected the offer.
We're talking
about soldiers, not civilians. The Defense Department uses the military term of
insurgent to describe the enemy. I've never heard of civilized people not
exchanging prisoners or negotiating potential exchanges. However, that's not my
main point. Let's look at it from the standpoint of the American soldier instead
of the Bush Defense Department. If the insurgent has no incentive to take the
American soldier alive and the no-exchange policy insures that, the insurgent
will simply kill the American soldier attempting to surrender.
Let's
consider a hopeless situation. The American has run out of ammunition and he has
no choice except surrendering. He's about to be murdered and certainly will be
under the no-exchange rule. I'm livid with rage when I think of the foursome
that dictates military policy for this nation, a notorious draft dodger and
three armchair types who have never worn an real soldier's uniform.
Iraq isn't Vietnam, but by some parallels, it looks
worse
As I have been saying for 10 months...
Ace - its so
bad to be so fuckin good
For
most Americans, the disbelief was the same. The attacks of Sept. 11 seemed to
come in a stunning burst from nowhere. But now, after two weeks of extraordinary
public hearings and a dozen detailed reports, the lengthy documentary record
makes clear that predictions of an attack by al Qaeda had been communicated
directly to the highest levels of the government.
The threat reports
were more clear, urgent and persistent than was previously known. Some focused
on al Qaeda's plans to use commercial aircraft as weapons. Others stated that
Osama bin Laden was intent on striking on United States soil. Many were passed
to the Federal Aviation Administration.
A long piece. Some recaps
but worth a read.
Going into this period, I was praying for strength to
do the Lord's will. . . . I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God.
Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case I pray that I be as good a messenger
of His will as possible. And then, of course, I pray for personal strength and
for forgiveness."
not His..
Of course he did..damned
murderer 
Most High god here, yes I told him to smite Saddam. It is my will
that George be my beacon on earth
The witness of sacred history
2259 In the
account of Abel's murder by his brother Cain,[57] Scripture reveals the presence
of anger and envy in man, consequences of original sin, from the beginning of
human history. Man has become the enemy of his fellow man. God declares the
wickedness of this fratricide: "What have you done? The voice of your brother's
blood is crying to me from the ground. And now you are cursed from the ground,
which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand."[58]
2260 The covenant between God and mankind is interwoven with reminders
of God's gift of human life and man's murderous violence:
For your lifeblood
I will surely require a reckoning.... Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man
shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.[59]
The Old
Testament always considered blood a sacred sign of life.[60] This teaching
remains necessary for all time.
2261 Scripture specifies the prohibition
contained in the fifth commandment: "Do not slay the innocent and the
righteous."[61] The deliberate murder of an innocent person is gravely contrary
to the dignity of the human being, to the golden rule, and to the holiness of
the Creator. The law forbidding it is universally valid: it obliges each and
everyone, always and everywhere.
2262 In the Sermon on the Mount, the
Lord recalls the commandment, "You shall not kill,"[62] and adds to it the
proscription of anger, hatred, and vengeance. Going further, Christ asks his
disciples to turn the other cheek, to love their enemies.[63] He did not defend
himself and told Peter to leave his sword in its sheath.[64
Peace
Avoiding war
2307 The fifth
commandment forbids the intentional destruction of human life. Because of the
evils and injustices that accompany all war, the Church insistently urges
everyone to prayer and to action so that the divine Goodness may free us from
the ancient bondage of war.[104]
2308 All citizens and all governments
are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.
However, "as long as the
danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the
necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful
self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed."[105]
2309 The strict
conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous
consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous
conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
- the damage
inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be
lasting, grave, and certain;
- all other means of putting an end to it must
have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
- there must be serious
prospects of success;
- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders
graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction
weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional
elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine.
The
evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential
judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.
Rantisi and Najaf
The Sunday Herald correctly points out that the
Israeli murder of Abdul Aziz Rantisi, the head of the political wing of the
Hamas party, on Saturday, will cause further trouble in Iraq.
With
al-Anbar province tense and US troops surrounding Najaf, one could not imagine a
worse time for Bush to give a green light to Sharon for further provocations.
One can only conclude that neither Ariel Sharon nor Bush and his Neocon advisers
give a fig about the lives of US servicemen in Iraq. Otherwise, they'd stop with
the theatrics. If the Israelis had wanted to arrest Rantisi, they could have.
They pulled off Entebbe. This extra-judicial murder of political opponents is
just showing off, and it is of course ethically despicable and a war crime for
which one only wishes Sharon could be made to stand trial in the Hague. If
Rantisi could have been proved to have committed an act of terrorism, he should
have been arrested and tried in Gaza for murder.)
I feel like something
of a fool for bothering to say this, since it is obvious that Sharon is behaving
like a Mafia don, not a head of state. But the commentary I saw on US cable
television was all about who could fall over themselves more quickly to praise
this decisive action against terrorism. The state of public discourse in the US
(and Israel) is deplorable when it is not even possible publicly to criticize
extra-judicial killing in the mass media.
Meanwhile, the Shiite
establishment's attempt to mediate between Muqtada al-Sadr and the Americans
appears to have broken down. The Iranian mediation attempt was abandoned
altogether, presumably both because of the assassination of the Iranian cultural
attache and because of the opposition of Supreme Jurisprudent Ali Khamenei.
posted by Juan Cole at 4/18/2004 04:10:42 AM
Clashes
outside Kufa; Situation Tense in Shrine Cities
ash-Sharq
al-Awsat: A series of explosions shook the city of Kufa on Friday, and
eyewitnesses saw dozens of armed militiamen hurrying to various parts of the
city. Reports spoke of clashes with the foreign troops.
In East Baghdad,
Reuters reports that ' tens of thousands of Shi'ites chanted support for Sadr in
his main power base, the Baghdad slum district of Sadr City. "Rivers of your
blood will flow," Sheikh Nasser al-Saedi told the crowd in a warning to U.S.
forces not to attack Najaf. '
Abdul Mahdi Karbala'i, Sistani's
representative in Karbala, said that his city and Najaf are "considered a red
line that the Coalition forces may not cross." He intimated that the inhabitants
of Iraq could be called upon to rebel and take up arms. In his Friday sermon at
Karbala, he said, "The situation has reached a serious juncture in past days,
and reports indicate that the Occupation Forces will violate the sanctity of
Karbala and Najaf, shedding in them much blood, and destroying what the people
of those two cities have built. He said the religious leadership could forestall
such a move, and that if the Coalition forces moved on the cities it would have
grave consequences. He said that after so many years of state terror, every
effort should now be made to find a peaceful way forward, and one that the US
could not refuse. He said these peaceful methods must be used to end the
occupation and return sovereignty to competent persons who represent the
independent national will. He warned that if the religious leadership concluded
that there was no escape from launching an armed uprising, it would not hesitate
to do so. (And this is the representative of the moderate, Sistani!)
I will take any and all
comers who wish to argue otherwise.
When Colin Powell decided
that Dick Cheney's crazy "fever," as he called the vice president's obsession
with linking 9/11 and Saddam, was leading the country into a war it did not need
to fight, he should have bared his heart to the president and made his case
using the Powell doctrine — with overwhelming force.
Mr. Bush probably
wouldn't have listened. He was in Mr. Cheney's gloomy sway, and Rummy's
bellicose sway. And W. felt competitive with his more popular top diplomat.
But Mr. Powell should have tried. And if the president didn't listen,
the secretary should have quit — not let himself be used by the vice president
and his "Gestapo office" of Pentagon neocons, as Mr. Powell referred to them, to
put a diplomatic fig leaf on a predetermined war plan and to present bogus
intelligence to the U.N.
"I voted for him, but damn it, I'm not happy with what he's done" in
Iraq, she said after noontime macaroni at a diner in this Minneapolis suburb.
"You know, let them fight their own battles, for chrissakes. Why should we go
over there and do it?"
An argument could be made that
sticking around gave Powell the chance the only chance to have a voice of sanity
heard among the fifty or so lunatics that have hijacked the USG.
But
that argument no longer holds when the entire planet knows what's going
on...that Powell is a damned lawn jockey ....Nobody believes him
anymore..Everyone that is anyone knows that the Neocon Gestapo is trottin his
black ass out there to shuck and jive the world.
He has no credibility
no purpose no balls
Bush has trotted the porch monkey out
to the Middle East to "sell the Arabs" on the Sharon Conquest ...and Sharon
murders Ristani...
Has the negro no self respect?
Bush has trotted the porch monkey out
to the Middle East to "sell the Arabs" on the Sharon Conquest ...and Sharon
murders Ristani...
Has the negro no self respect?
BAGHDAD,
April 17 -- In the space of two weeks, a fierce insurgency in Iraq has isolated
the U.S.-appointed civilian government and stopped the American-financed
reconstruction effort, as contractors hunker down against waves of ambushes and
kidnappings, according to U.S. and Iraqi officials.
.................................................
U.S. officials
said they are reconsidering initial assessments that the uprisings might be
contained as essentially military confrontations in Fallujah, where Marines
continue their siege of a chronically volatile city, and Najaf, where the
militant Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr has taken refuge in the shadow of a shrine.
"The Fallujah problem and the Sadr problem are having a wider impact
than we expected," a senior U.S. official involved in Iraq policy said. In
Baghdad and Washington, officials had initially concluded that addressing those
problems would not engender much anger among ordinary Iraqis. "Sadr's people and
the people of Fallujah were seen as isolated and lacking broad support among
Iraqis," the official added.
Instead, the official said, "The effect has
been profound."
..............................................
Please permit another repetition of one of my favorite expressions of
absurd futility: Looks like a monkey fucking a football.
I think I'll have me a slice of that
Armadillo pie, shot of Southern Comfort and a Lone Star to chase it all away
Revolt
Against Imperial Occupation Isolates Puppet Government
Impressive
planning Td.
I was full of hope and optimism a
couple of days ago, some sort of negotiated resolution in view for the Sadr
Boys, and the prospect of State dept and UN in charge of transition in Iraq.
And what happens... the military ratchets up the pressure, poses
unacceptable conditions for Sadr's people; the army is ready to roll into Najaf
and Falluja. Nothing would be easier, for the military, than to scuttle any
prospects of a June handover... to ensure their own continued pre-eminence by
keeping Iraq ungovernable.
And, coincidentally, Sharon plays along
beautifully.
The Neocons are not done yet.
The Kurds have
militia. The Shiites get slaughtered because they have militia?
Yeah
right.
That was one of the few bright spots...
Easily fixed.
Send the Kurds in against the Sunnis.
Name:
Thomas A. Foley III
Rank: Spc.
Branch of Service: Army
Age: 23
Hometown: Dresden
State: TN
Date of Death: 04/14/03
Tens of Thousands of Palestinians Cry Out for Vengeance
Anyone think this wasn't the foreseen consequence of Sharon's
murderous acts or Bush's approval of them?
Well, some
of the things that make him unhappy, for example, are the Saudi royal family, an
Egypt and a Jordan and a Pakistan who are friendly to the U.S., and I submit,
Sadaam Hussein who was a secularist who kept the clamps on Muslim fanatics. In
short, one of OBL's main objectives is to stir things up in the Middle East,
especially in client states of the U.S. and other western countries.
Therefore, the U.S. invasion of Iraq played into OBL's plan. We deposed
Sadaam Hussein, a leader who he regarded as an enemy. And our invasion stirred
up a Muslim hornet's nest and greatly increased hostility toward the United
States throughout the Middle East, making it much harder for Pakistan, Jordan,
Egypt, Saudi Arabia to stick with the U.S. The invasion also stirred up Muslim
fanaticism in other countries such as Indonesia and North Africa.
Overall, our invasion has destabilized the area, consistent with OBL's
objectives and contrary to the interests of the United States.
UN
Isn't Going to Help Emperor Bush Now
Published: April 18,
2004
UNITED NATIONS, April 17 — The United Nations, once snubbed and
excluded from the task of shaping Iraq's future, suddenly finds itself pressed
to play the major role in that effort, but it is taking up the task with some
foreboding.
"There is a mixture of vindication on the one hand and great
apprehension on the other," said Edward Mortimer, a senior aide to Secretary
General Kofi Annan.
April 18: Iraqi capital braces itself for
mujahideen onslaught.
Debray
Decomposition:Calm before the storm in Baghdad
April 18: Iraqi
capital braces itself for mujahideen onslaught.
Report warns of risks of repatriation.
Discretion, the better part of valour eh Wombat?
Perhaps if the Republicans devoted more time to fighting the war on
terror instead of flailing at the 911 Commission...700 American soldiers would
be alive today..100 now dead since April Fools Day..thank you fools and
Adolescent Power Rangers.
An
Attack on Najaf "Will be Zero Hour of a Massive Popular Uprising": al-Khaz'ali
Najaf
Crisis and International Implications
Iran: US Will Pay a 'Heavy
Price'
Rantisi
and Najaf
Or don't and shut up
Still waiting
Patience is a virtue
Think more, write more, post
less.
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq (news - web
sites)'s police and armed forces will not have the capability to secure the
country from the threat of insurgents by the time the United States hands power
to an Iraqi government on June 30, the top U.S. administrator said Sunday.
Try the same for you. All hat no cattle.
Poseur.
Fraud.
When you have something worthwhile to say say it.
I am waiting for you.
Du kan dra åt helvete
freaky, scary, embarrassing......
The Rev. Mark E. Stanger
Canon Precentor and Associate Pastor, Grace Cathedra; SFCA
So unsurpassingly
forgettable.
In Riyadh,
Abdul Rahman al-Atiyah, the secretary general of the Gulf Cooperation Council,
blamed the occupation authorities for the current events, including the
deterioration of the security situation. He called on the Coalition forces to
cooperate with all political forces in Iraq in seeking an end to the downward
spiral. He said it was unlikely that any Gulf countries would provide
peacekeeping troops in Iraq.
What DiVona thought was a spider bite was actually caused by a tiny sand
fly with a fierce parasite stewing in its gut, an organism that causes stubborn
and ugly sores that linger for months.
The left side of DiVona's
face puffed up, a swelling that wouldn't go away. And he noticed he was not the
only one in his unit with such symptoms.
"A lot of people started
coming down with sores," he said, sitting at Walter Reed Army Medical Center
with an IV taped to his right arm. "It was like, 'You ain't cool unless you got
it.'"
Scientists and doctors refer to the disease caused by the
parasite as cutaneous leishmaniasis. But soldiers serving in sand-fly rich Iraq
call it, with little affection, the "Baghdad boil."
Even as
Baghdad braces for violence as anarchy engulfs the Clown Colony on Monday, Day
of Jihad.
Send in the Swedish "I Wannabe Psuedoconservative
Prepubesecent AirHead" Brigade.
Bebiskuk
Arab leaders attack Bush
April 19: Angry Iraqis say
country is grinding to a halt.
What is that about THE REST OF THE
WORLD?
Iraq shows the west and its new liberal
imperialists have forgotten the lessons of history
Martin Jacques -
visiting fellow at the London School of Economics Asian Research Centre
THAT is being charitable.
I don't think certain
people ever learned much history.
·
Pelle-10
Spittle Drippers-0
If you have some
quarrel with the message, bring it on.
But if anyone thinks that I
am gonna sit here and take cheaps shots from the dimwitted, that person is in
for a huge surprise.
Quagmire
of Death:
Bush Whines About Spanish Pullout
What's wrong with this picture?
We now have four
messages that have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of this thread.
I suggest that if people wish to post substantive content, they do
so and blast through and flame me for doing so.
THen run away.
This raises a very interesting question, doesn't it?
Why
don't they seek out substantive debate?
Why do they launch ad hominem
off topic attack?
I'll deal with either but the choice...Pelle made
it and that I why I submit, with considerable justification, that Pelle is a
fraud and a poseur with nothing substantive to say.
Occam's Razor.
The point people are trying to make is that, for example, 4636
is a contentless post. It's pointing to a wire service story. We all take a look
at the wires every once in a while. This isn't breaking news.
There's no
comment, other than a sneer. What answer does "demonstrably dimwitted" permit?
"Sharp as a tack"?
Calling the president names, and posting a link does
not constitute discussion. cf: Monty Python, The Argument Clinic.
Doing
so over and over again inhibits discussion.
At the moment, there's not
much to discuss. Woodward's book had no news in it--just supporting material.
The president hasn't changed his views. I don't think there's anybody here who
supports the administration's support for Likud, or the unilateral annexation of
the territories.
KISS
Now for substance, either bite me
or bite this:
The objective of the ex-Marxist neocons has always been to
foment chaos in the middle east in aid of a long relationship with the Likud,
which pursues indentical tactics against the Palestinians. Violence to attain
questionable, if not illegal, international political objectives while
maintaining political power through fear.
See: The Push for War
The
Eagle Has Crash Landed
Practice
to Deceive
Chaos in the Middle East is not the Bush hawks' nightmare
scenario--it's their plan.
Substantial evidence has
emerged over the past weeks that not only confirms the hypothesis, but that
strongly suggests that the 50 or so psuedoconservative
lunatics that have hijacked the USG from a "demonstrably dimwitted" leader
are coordinating their efforts with Sharon.
This accounts for the recent
dust up with Syria, which is factually unsupportable, and is probably a
reflection of their larger objective to expand their war to Syria, a move that
would make the
current anarchic situation in Iraq, look
like a picnic
For those that cannot connect the dots, I just did
the work for you.
Consider that
and the following exemplar of posts to the "BringThem Home Now" site for
families and soldiers serving in Bush's war on Iraq:
The IDEA of discussion is "connecting
the dots," because people sometimes don't connect them the same ways.
Slain soldier's family is bitter
the Associated Press
DUNN - The family of an Army sergeant who died in Iraq this week was
mourning over Easter weekend at the house of the grandparents who raised him.
Sgt. 1st Class Marvin L. Miller, 38, of Dunn died Wednesday in Balad
when he was shot while on traffic control duty. The Pentagon said the shooting
is still being investigated.
Some members of Miller's Harnett County
family were struggling to justify to themselves his deployment to Iraq.
"Is it a good cause?" asked his sister, Miriam Smith. "No, not really.
They're over there trying to help the people, and they're steady killing them."
Miller's cousin Felicia Smith of Raleigh and aunt Annie Miller
concurred.
"It stinks," Annie Miller said. "The president got us into
something he doesn't know how to get out of. It seems like the more killing that
goes on over there, the more troops he's sending."
This war was based on lies and
entered into under false pretenses with no planning, with no sound strategy,
with no clearly identifiable objective, course or exit strategy.
How
long will the US public sustain support for a war when opposition already
exceeds support in recent public opinion surveys?
You people are intelligent enough. Even
Pelle fercrissakes
The point that Mr. Jacques made as the archivist of our Imperfect World
will confirm is one I made last August ie that we should not kid ourselves with
self-deluding propaganda slogans about liberation and democracy.
We
invaded Iraq.
We waged aggressive war on Iraq without justification.
We occupy Iraq.
The Iraqis know who we are, what we did, what we
are about and they don't give a fig about slogans and sloganized policy
developed for Bush approval ratings.
What lies at the core of
people's war is the desire of people to rule themselves rather than be governed
by foreign countries, often from thousands of miles away, that are possessed of
utterly alien values and their own self-serving priorities. This is a principle
that the west has found extremely difficult to learn. And even when it appears
to have finally learned the lesson - always the hard way, by defeat - it seems
to suffer another bout of amnesia: how could this country not be served better
by adopting our values and our institutions, even if the ministering of the
medicine does require application with more than a little force?
And
no amount of saccharin political sludge from the Bush regime can change that
reality or obscure the truth.
NO FOREIGN CONQUERING POWER IN THE 20TH
CENTURY EVER PREVAILED AGAINST A NATIONALIST INSURGENCY.
The 21st is no
different.
It ain't hard
Nice to see old Iran-Contra hands do well.
I guess it's consistent--no accountability, no
responsibility, no penalty for failure--no matter how embarrassing.
crusade language to describe their heroic champion.
Congress
Wants to Know Whether Bush Has a Clue LAT
Then you would know were you coming from,
Then you wouldn´t have to ask me,
Who the ´eck do
I think I am.
I´m just a Buffalo Soldier in the heart of
America,
Are Kerry (repeating
longstanding calls for internationalization and UN involvment) and Bush (in
another BORN again moment, beggin the UN to save him) each whistling past the
graveyard?
Is the situation FUBAR?
Thus, the key element
in the Spanish withdrawal is no longer the Madrid bombings. Zapatero might have
kept the troops in Iraq nevertheless, since it does seem that Bush is being
forced by circumstances to go back to the UN Security Council. The key issue now
is Muqtada al-Sadr's Shiite movement, and whether Spanish troops would stick
around to help put it down, and risk getting mired in a colonial anti-insurgency
effort. The answer: No.
A problem for the US: A lot of other countries
may well decide to follow suit. Most "Coalition partners" signed up for
peacekeeping or reconstruction, not to fight against guerrillas (there is a
difference between peacekeeping and peace-enforcing). The US could well lose
half a divisionthis way, and it doesn't have half a division to spare. If the US
were to provoke a struggle with the Shiites, the British in Basra might well
leave, as well, rather than risk being overwhelmed. In the midst of such a
Shiite revolt, with British commanders frantically signalling they didn't have
the manpower to handle it in the South, if Tony Blair wouldn't finally come to
grips with reality, he might well be unceremoniously dumped by his own party,
the way Maggie Thatcher was. That is, the Spanish model, of a Bush/Cheney
induced move to the left might not stop, among US allies, with Madrid.
Pelle can contribute here.
How do you say FUBAR in
Swedish?
Unfortunately, Blitzer doesn't have enough sense to question how the
military can carry on negotiations with insurgents in Fillujah and refuse to
carry them on with the insurgents holding an American soldier elsewhere.
Meanwhile the American public, including myself, have to endure a heart-breaking
plea by the family of this captured soldier. Blitzer cannot seem to grasp the
distinction between a captured soldier and a civilian hostage.
Jordan
Attacks US:
12 American Casualties in Kosovo, in Iraq Dispute
"Two Americans and a Jordanian were shot dead in Kosovo Saturday when
emotions over Iraq apparently boiled over into a gunbattle between members of
the U.N. law enforcement mission. U.N. police spokesman Neeraj
Singh said
two U.S. police officers and a Jordanian were killed and 10 Americans and one
Austrian wounded in the shooting... The 10-minute shootout took place in the
U.N. compound in ethnically divided Mitrovica...
U.N. police sources said
four Jordanian police officers had been arrested in connection with the
shooting... A police source said it began with a row over Iraq."
I had to let him him
know and I did.
Blogger "Hesiod Theogeny" of "Counterspin Central" ridicules
this intelligence-insulting fairy tale:
"Wow. It's almost as if
George W. Bush KNEW he would be accused of "stretching" the case for war with
Iraq, or that we'd never find any WMD's. In fact, it's just downright amazing
that George W. Bush was so prescient. It's as though he came up with that quote
after the fact, just for Bob Woodward's book, in order to cover his ass.
"But, we know that's just plain silly, though. Right?"
Right-WING, anyway.
So the question remains, who are we turning over nothing to?
Powell through Woodward
is
a) pointing fingers at Cheney and Tenet
b) Bush is trying to pass
buck and use CIA as scapegoat
c) leaves it to Congress and investigators
formal/informal to sort it out.
d) CIA pissed
e) Cheney gets castrated
Look for major developments in CIA Regime Change Black Op this
summer...
Ain't rocket
science.
Today's Google Moron Index: 120,000
U.S.
troops shot to death two employees of U.S.-funded television station Al-Iraqiya
on Monday and wounded a third in the central city of Samara, the station said.
Correspondent Asaad Kadhim and driver Hussein Saleh were killed.
Cameraman Bassem Kamel was wounded "after American forces opened fire on them
while they were performing their duty," the station announced
ROME, April 19 — The European Commission president, Romano Prodi,
today praised
the new Spanish prime minister's decision to withdraw troops from Iraq, and
he suggested that other nations were likely to follow.
"With this
decision, Spain has fallen into line with our position," Mr. Prodi, who is also
a leader of the Italian opposition, told reporters after an opposition meeting
here. "The divide that prevented Europe from having a common position is being
overcome."
Who's next to perish?
Blair?
Berlusconi?
Bush?
Honduras
Bails On "Coalition of the Willing"
Of course, now the Imperium is
telling the truth - they could all leave and it would make a dime's worth of
difference militarily...just gives Truth to another Bush LIE.
Whitehall's
private anger won't abate
April 20, Richard Norton-Taylor:
Military chiefs and diplomats are seething at US conduct in Iraq
King Abdullah of Jordan dealt a rebuff to President Bush on Monday,
abruptly putting off his visit to Washington scheduled for later this week.
Jordanian officials said the visit had become impossible in light of Mr. Bush's
recent support for Israel's territorial claims in the West Bank.
Mubarrak:"Today there is hatred of the Americans like never before
in the region,"
Quotations from on War and Revolution
"Political power rows out
of the barrel of a gun."
— Mao Zedong, Problems of War and
Strategy
Not George Bush..."Democratic political power grows out of the barrel of
a gun"
God Bless AmeriKa..the Bush Doctrine meets the Mao Doctrine of
Revoltionary War
On April 10, 2003, Ken Adelman, a Reagan
administration official and supporter of the Iraq war, published an op-ed
article in The Washington Post headlined, " 'Cakewalk' Revisited," more or less
gloating over what appeared to be the quick victory there, and reminding readers
that 14 months earlier he had written that war would be a "cakewalk." He
chastised those who had predicted disaster. "Taking first prize among the many
frightful forecasters" was Brent Scowcroft, who served as national security
adviser in the first Bush administration. Adelman wrote that his own confidence
came from having worked for Donald H. Rumsfeld three times and "from knowing
Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz for so many years."
"Time will
tell"
Time has told.
a Republican senator said spiralling violence in Iraq could force the
United States to reintroduce the military draft.
"There's not an
American... that doesn't understand what we are engaged in today and what the
prospects are for the future," Senator Chuck Hagel told a Senate Foreign
Relations Committee hearing on post-occupation Iraq.
"If that's the
case, why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and
pay some price?" Hagel said.
Emperor
Scrambles to Keep Coalition from Falling Apart 
Bush allows all sorts
of photos of small units coming home..none of the real costs of this war to the
US..
Hell they've been playing games to hide appropriations for 3 years
and have another 50-60 billion under a supplemental shell that they haven't even
thrown into the game yet for fear of the election impact.
Well these
photos and news stories such as you just referred to are hitting the airwaves
despite the Imperium's Media Censors
The image of Kyle Crowley, 18, is projected at a memorial for the
slain Marine private in Danville on Monday as his father, Mark (left), and
friend Gary Kaempf hug at his casket.
A couple of years ago, the administration made sure that the
dormant draft boards were staffed.
This is interesting in a couple of ways. One is that it
shows quite clearly that this "Coalition of the Willing" is very much a
coalition of the bribed, bought and coerced since the second/third largest force
are mercenaries.
But it is also interesting to compare these combatants
with the ~600 "unlawful combatants" we are holding in Guantanamo. The armed
contractors in Iraq are "unlawful combatants". They are not part of any national
force. By and large they wear no identifying uniform or badge. What will the
administration do if Iraqis begin to take such contrators prisioner and hold
them as "unlawful combatants"?
Imperium:
June 30th Date Not "Magical"
Magical is exactly what it
was...magical..political...bullshit
Why Outsourcing Military Operations Is Bunk Defense and the
National Interest
The policy to outsource tasks traditionally
done by the uniformed military has been going on for at least 20 years. It is
based on the ideological belief that the theoretical efficiency of market
capitalism can be transferred to the military. This is bunk.
Like it or
not, the military is not a capitalist enterprise. Turning it into a corporatist
institution may be good porkbarrel politics, but it degrades the effectiveness
as well as the honor of the military profession.
The theoretical
efficiency of market capitalism is premised on the necessary assumption that a
market exists to impartially adjudicate decisions of many small buyers and
sellers. Implicit in this theory is assumption is that no single buyer or seller
is large enough to shape the market through his or her decision making
activities. Implicit also in this theory is the premise that decision-making
information is freely and equally available to all the competitive players in
the market.
Neither of these necessary assumptions is remotely met in a
military outsourcing transaction. [see threads 1-4]
The
undisclosed hawkers of the Bush media team are already predicting a big surge in
the president's election prospects based on the good news issued a short while
ago.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/20/iraq.main/index.html
"Salem Chalabi, the nephew of the head the Iraqi
National Congress"
Another in a long string of collosally stupid
moves...these idiots have a death wish for US troops?
They'll probably appoint Scalia to advise them
But then again, sadly, may be not any
longer....
What a bunch of lunatics
Gen. Richard Sanchez is quoted as boasting that 1,000 Iraqis were
killed in the recent uprisings in Fallujah and the Shiite South, and that
"They've seen the might of the American military unleashed." I understand that
this sort of talk is part of warfare (the equivalent of wearing scary war
paint), but I really think Gen. Sanchez has recently started going over the top
in his public comments. Those 1,000 dead Iraqis contained at least dozens and
maybe hundreds of innocent civilians, and in that light his statement won't go
over well in Iraq or the Arab world. Also, it isn't really a surprise that the
US military can kill 1000 Iraqis. The surprise is that a year after the fall of
the Baath, Iraqis could and would kill over 100 US soldiers, and injure hundreds
more. Given that as I write, the US military almost certainly does not have
control of East Baghdad, one wonders about the might of the American military
where it counts.
Cole
Onward and upward with the rule
of law.
Following up on our post of two weeks ago, Ahmed Chalabi's
nephew Salem has now been appointed "general director" of the Iraqi war crimes
tribunal which will try, among others, Saddam Hussein.
Salem, you'll
remember, earlier went into the war contracting and lobbying business with the
law partner of Undersecretary of Defense Doug Feith, a prime architect of the
war, and the Pentagon official in charge of the contracting process.
And, no, I'm not making any of this up.
From this article,
it seems that the spokesman of Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress, Entefadh
Qanbar, is also acting as the spokesman for the Tribunal. Perhaps he already is
the spokesman for it. It's just not clear.
In any case, the operation --
holding the malefactors of the old regime accountable for their acts -- does
seem to be becoming a family affair.
Along similar lines, we should
still be asking why the CPA, the sovereign authority in Iraq, allowed Chalabi to
confiscate the files of the former regime's secret police to use to blackmail
his political enemies. Given these most recent developments, perhaps it will be
argued that this was part of some rather broadly construed discovery proceeding
pursuant to the Chalabi family's prosecution of Saddam Hussein. But I would find
that rationale less than convincing.
-- Josh Marshall
Chalabi has the secret police files for the Last Ditch Dictator
Scam...
Heard it here first.
The same ally
whose troops were in a firefight with US troops in Kosovo last week.
Is
this the course we are supposed to stay?
I submit we're chasing a
phantasm of the lunatic fringe.
The Great Model of the Middle East...our
best ally - Jordan.
The War Cost Lie: War May Require More Money Soon
That didn't take long...posted 50 minutes ago...
Guess some of
our reporters are waking up.,
Sounds about right to me.
posted by Juan Cole at 4/21/2004 07:20:34 AM "
Fanning
the embers of distrust is the U.S.'s failure to acknowledge that the
constituencies of key Governing Council members "are not based on ideology, but
rather on the muscle of their respective personal militias and the patronage
which we allow them to bestow," according to the memo's author. Using the Kurds
as an example, he reveals that "we have bestowed approximately $600 million upon
the Kurdish leadership, in addition to the salaries we pay, in addition to the
USAID projects, in addition to the taxes which we have allowed them to collect
illegally." To underscore the point, the author adds that he recently spent an
evening with a Kurdish contact watching The Godfather trilogy, and notes that
"the entire evening was spent discussing which Iraqi Kurdish politicians
represented which [Godfather] character."
Yesterday Wolfowitz defended the Bush lies on the basis that we got
rid of a really, really bad guy.
Really?
From the CPA:
Pre-War Concerns Validated
By and large, the March
memo validates many points raised by career military, diplomatic, and
intelligence officers before the war. For them, lack of planning for post-war
stabilization was a primary matter of deep concern, which cannot be said for the
Bush administration's hawkish advocates of "regime change."
Among the
more informed and prescient in this camp is Retired USAF Colonel Sam Gardiner, a
long-time National War College instructor and war-games specialist who asserted
in February of 2003 that "the military is not prepared to deal with [Bush's]
promises" of a rapid and rosy post-war transition in Iraq
The CPA
memo also validates key points of the exceptionally perceptive February 2003 US
Army War College report, "Reconstructing Iraq: Insights, Challenges, and
Missions for Military Forces in a Post-Conflict Scenario." Critical of the U.S.
government's insufficient post-war planning, the War College report asserted
that "the possibility of the United States winning the war and losing the peace
is real and serious." It also cautioned that insufficient attention had been
given to the political complexities likely to crop up in post-Saddam Iraq, a
scene in which religious and ethnic blocs supported by militias would further
complicate a transition to functional democracy in a nation bereft of any
pluralistic history.
A more lying, corrupt bunch of
incompetents, I have never seen!
Nota bene..
Famously, Lord Cromer once described Great Britain's approach to the
Land of the Nile: "We do not rule Egypt; we rule those who rule Egypt."
Compare that with several statements made by the U.S. official who wrote
the memo considered here. Of one senior Iraqi official, whose name is redacted,
he states that "it is better to keep [him] a happy drunk than an angry drunk."
The Dominican Republic is pulling out its
350-troop contribution to the Coalition of the Billing.
SEC. RUMSFELD: Well,
the reason it's contained is because we have the extra troops there. That's
self-evident.
Q (Off mike.)
SEC. RUMSFELD: Oh, come on. People
are fungible. You can have them here or there. The fact of the matter is, we've
made a judgment and we've announced the judgment. It's very clear. You
understand it -- everyone in the room understands it -- that we needed
additional -- the commander decided he would like to retain in-country an
additional plus or minus 20,000 people, and that's what we're doing.
This is what Secretary Rumsfeld thinks of our troops: "People are
fungible."
Look for BushCo to make Rummy the fall guy for "underfunding"
troop numbers and to use this as an excuse for re-starting the draft. They
probably won't do that until after the election, however, when nothing is at
stake for them re: being re-elected.
The U.S.'s insane policy toward Cuba is another sore
spot with rational Americans. But Florida is a swing state with a lot of rich
Cuban-Americans.
This from CNN.
Turning over what? To whom?
Democratic
does not flow from the barrel of an imperialistss gun
OTOH
The delusions of lunatics
How many lies
will the American people let them get away with?
Has the al-Khoei
Family Intervened on Muqtada's Behalf?
Received the following from
an Iraqi reader:
' My uncle in Baghdad who is absolutely not a
supporter of Moqtada tells me that the Al-Koei family has jointly written a
letter to the CPA stating that they do not hold Moqtada responsible for the mob
that killed Sayid [Abdul Majid] Al-Koei and that even if we were involved they
do not want to press charges against him. Furthermore, the Al-Koei foundation
web site blames pro-saddam elements for his death.
I realize that they
might be doing this to avoid intra-Shia conflict and still harbor ill will
toward Moqtada. Nonetheless if you can corroborate the existence of this letter
(it has been widely publicized in Iraq) and its authenticity I think it is an
important piece of news.
I hope you will also understand that I am not a
partisan of Moqtada in any way, but I want the truth to come out and I think he
has been unfairly maligned for essentially what amounts to his political views
about theocracy and the presence of US troops in his country. His followers may
be uncouth and he may have a militia, but as you point out this is a
characteristic of at least a dozen nascent political movements in Iraq.
The only way to defeat Moqtada and theocracy is at the ballot box, if is
movement is banned from the electoral process they will go underground and bring
a lot of the disenfranchised shia with them. '
If this news is true,
it rather pulls the rug out from under the Coalition Provisional Authority case
against Muqtada al-Sadr.
posted by Juan Cole at 4/21/2004 04:30:24
PM
Juan Cole
Testimony before
Senate Committee on Foreign Relations
The US administration of Iraq has suffered
from lack of consistency, from infighting among major bureaucratic organizations
such as the Department of Defense and the State Department, and from an apparent
desire strongly to shape Iraqi society in certain directions, which has the
effect of contravening international law on military occupations, specifically
the Hague Regulations of 1907 and the Geneva Conventions of 1949
Archivist will confirm that I registered essentially this complaint
in or about August 2003.
The US must now move with all due deliberation to holding
free and fair, oneperson, one-vote elections in Iraq. Only such a process holds
any hope of deflecting faction-fighting into more a more peaceful reworking of
political conflict into parliamentary processes. The elections should be held
even if the security situation remains poor. Indian and other elections in the
global south are often attended by public disturbances and even loss of life,
but they nevertheless produce legitimate governments.
As long as Saddam Hussein and
his Ba'athist Party is out of power - and does not return - the United States
will have accomplished its essential objective in Iraq. Saddam is an evil man.
His villainy, coupled with his access to oil wealth, made him a potent threat to
peace and freedom. He had to go.
To make sure he remains out of power,
we must keep a large garrison, safely ensconced at a secure base, in Iraq once
we hand over power to the Iraqi Governing Council.
But democracy may be
a bridge too far in Iraq; even peace may be elusive. We must heed the lessons of
Nixon's successful disengagement from Vietnam. As Nixon did, we must turn the
war over to the locals, a process he called Vietnamization. But, this time, we
must not let the Democrats in Congress tie our hands. We've got to retain the
freedom, flexibility and logistical ability to intervene again if the forces of
evil come back to power.
If Bush hangs on in Iraq, insisting on "nation
building," he will leave public opinion behind. The resulting bitter alienation
will cripple our ability to act against terror in other places, cost him the
presidency and probably make future intervention in Iraq impossible.
Bush is leading America in a crucial crusade to rid the world of
terrorism. He needs an energetic, committed and largely united nation behind
him. He must not squander those priceless assets in a dead-end pursuit of an
ideal Iraq. A Saddam-less one is enough for one administration to achieve and to
be thankful for.
There's your exit strategery.
As violence erupts and security remains elusive, more
American allies are signaling their concerns about the situation in Iraq.
Following this week's removal of Spanish, Honduran and Dominican troops, Britain
announced it would not send additional troops and Poland
started to show cracks in its commitment. Reconstruction efforts are being
suspended, and the administration is left to flip-flop on policy, with no solid
strategy in place. (Stunningly, in the past two weeks, the
only measure the White House has taken to prepare for the transfer of power on
June 30 is the controversial naming of John Negroponte to be Ambassador.)
Meanwhile, the pressure on U.S. troops is increasing as the
highly-touted Iraqi security forces are not
yet performing as promised: "About one in every 10 members of Iraq's
security forces 'actually worked against' U.S. troops during the recent militia
violence in Iraq, and an additional 40 percent walked off the job because of
intimidation."
Das Lied Der
Deutschland
Boys Choir
Einigkeit und Recht und
Freiheit
Für das deutsche Vaterland.
Danach laßt uns alle streben
Brüderlich mit Herz und Hand!
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
Sind
des Glückes Unterpfand
Blüh' im Glanze dieses Glückes,
Blühe, deutsches
Vaterland!
WASHINGTON - The United
States is moving to rehire former members of Iraq's ruling Baath Party and
senior Iraqi military officers fired after the ouster of Saddam Hussein, in an
effort to undo the damage of its two most controversial policies in Iraq,
according to U.S. officials.
The U.S. governor of Iraq, L. Paul Bremer,
proposed the policy shifts to broaden the strategy to entice the powerful Sunni
minority back into the political fold and weaken support for the insurgency in
the volatile Sunni triangle, two of the most persistent challenges for the
U.S.-led occupation, the officials say. Both policies are at the heart of
national reconciliation, increasingly important as the occupation nears an end.
Hire the baathists
Set the Puppet Government with
a Toilet Paper "constitution"
Set both afire
Castigate the UN
Beg the UN's help
Well there isn't going to be any help.
The
Brits are about to cave.
>Brit Support for Blair, War on Iraq Sink to Bottom of Toilet
>British Troops Complain of US Incompetence, Blair Won't Send More
Cannon Fodder for Bush
That's how ya do it Mago.
The Wages of Bush - Death
A military contractor has
fired Tami Silicio, a Kuwait-based cargo worker whose photograph of flag-draped
coffins of fallen U.S. soldiers was published in Sunday's edition of The Seattle
Times.
Silicio was let go yesterday for violating U.S. government and
company regulations, said William Silva, president of Maytag Aircraft, the
contractor that employed Silicio at Kuwait International Airport.
"I
feel like I was hit in the chest with a steel bar and got my wind knocked out. I
have to admit I liked my job, and I liked what I did," Silicio said.
Her
photograph, taken earlier this month, shows more than 20 flag-draped coffins in
a cargo plane about to depart from Kuwait. Since 1991, the Pentagon has banned
the media from taking pictures of caskets being returned to the United
States.
.
Perle's
entire testimony was a camouflaged piece of flakking for Ahmad Chalabi.
She's
looking good for being 50....
Bush
Begs Spain to Mediate PAL-Israeli Mess
But anyway,
what struck me was the contradiction between Perle's insistence that the US
should have handed power over to Iraqis months ago, and his simultaneous
opposition to free and fair elections. The only conclusion I can draw is that he
wants power handed to Chalabi, who would then be a kind of dictator and would
not go to the polls any time soon. Cole
They're gonna make
Chalabi the dictator.
WASHINGTON, April 22 — The
Bush administration's plans for a new caretaker government in Iraq would place
severe limits on its sovereignty, including only partial command over its armed
forces and no authority to enact new laws, administration officials said
Thursday.
These restrictions to the plan negotiated with Lakhdar
Brahimi, the special United Nations envoy, were presented in detail for the
first time by top administration officials at Congressional hearings this week,
culminating in long and intense questioning on Thursday at the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee's hearing on the goal of returning Iraq to self-rule on June
30.
How Orwellian can these guys get?
White House
Says Iraq Sovereignty Could Be Limited
The new caretaker
government would only have partial command over its armed forces and no
authority to enact new laws.
Say what?
They'll be calling
this "limited sovereignty" if they find a government in 70 days to turn nothing
over to that is.
"And our men and women in Eyerak are fightin for
freedom. Their fight is not in vain. The Eyerakis now have limited sovereignty"
Pentagon forced to release the Truth.
They reported that the situation has deteriorated to the point of near
anarchy in wide areas; that the Iraqi security is a shambles; that in all their
worldwide experience providing security in trouble spots around the world, they
have never seen anything like the mess we're in now, and that they expect no
improvement for at least TEN YEARS!
The Steele Fndn get regular intel
reports from Centcom. Six security contractors were killed in the past 24 hours.
According to the president, these deaths never make the news unless the bodies
are dismembered.
The Memory Hole site that
published the 300 FOIA'ed photos has been hacked down.
jexster, why
don't you sign up?
I'm too old, they don't want me.
That is your problem.
The Conditioning of the Masses
in the Hall of Mirrors
Its very simple really. We're treated to
pictures of handfuls of happy warriors returning home even as Rummy extends one
year tours indefinitely; even as the Pentagon prepares to send another 20,000 in
to that rat hole; even as they lie and try to cover up the fact that they have
no plan that has connection with reality; even as they try to hide the financial
cost, and even as they are "angered' that Americans can see the human cost.
Your problem?
They've conditioned you.
Mine?
They haven't conditioned me.
His response? He chuckled, "We Arabs have patience. We have time. Bush
has neither"
One of the few consistencies of the war in Iraq is
America’s ability to make the wrong choices. From starting the war in the first
place through outlawing the Baath and sending the Iraqi army home to assaulting
Fallujah and declaring war on Shiite militia leader Muqtada al-Sadr, we
repeatedly get it wrong. Such consistency raises a question: can we identify a
single factor that consistently leads us in the wrong direction?
I think
we can. That is not to say other factors are not also in play. But one wrong
notion does appear to underlie many of our blunders. That is the belief that in
this war, the U.S. military is the strongest player.
We hear this at
every level from the rifle squad to the White House. In Fallujah, Marine
privates and sergeants want to finish the job of taking the city, with no doubt
whatsoever that they can. In Baghdad, spokesmen for the CPA regularly trumpet
the line that no Iraqi fighters can hope to stand up to the U.S. military.
Washington casts a broader net, boasting that the American military can defeat
any enemy, anywhere. The bragging and self-congratulation reach the point where,
as Oscar Wilde might have said, it is worse than untrue; it is in bad taste.
In fact, in Iraq and in Fourth Generation war elsewhere, we are the
weaker party. The most important reason this is so is time.
Why We Get It
Wrong
I suppose that's what you
wanted me to pick up from that link?
They've only conditioned you a
different way.
What one thinks is knowledge, is vastly different from one to
the other.
What it all amounts to is horrendous casualties
accruing to the US forces, and an absolute necessity for close air support and
bombardment ahead of the advance, which is certain to result in huge civilian
losses. In short, it is hard to believe with the limited people the US has on
the ground that this can hardly result in anything other than a disaster.
Obviously, this is why the US field commanders have been trying desperately to
secure a truce. Of course the terrorists know that they have us boxed and are
determined to exact a high price.
No doubt an assault on the towns could be done, but the
resultant deaths and injuries among both sides would be high, perhaps too high
to make it worthwhile. Also, given that an insurgent can dump arms as required
and go back to being a civilian, means that the fighting would only start up
again as soon as US troops came off the assault.
What are the choices?
Bomb the towns flat? that would "work".
Continue in the current fashion?
not going to "work"
Get some agreement from the political leaders to stop
the fighting and do some jaw-jaw? you never know, it might actually work.
It's now widely accepted that the administration "failed dismally
to prepare for the security and nation-building missions in Iraq," to quote
Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies — not
heretofore known as a Bush basher. Just as experts on peacekeeping predicted
before the war, ...
The lesson of the last few weeks is that the
occupation has never recovered from those early errors....
9/11 didn't
shake the administration's fanatical commitment to privatization and
outsourcing, in which free-market ideology is inextricably mixed with eagerness
to protect and reward corporate friends.
Sure enough, the administration
was unprepared for predictable security problems in Iraq, but moved quickly — in
violation of international law — to impose its economic vision. Last month Jay
Garner, the first U.S. administrator of Iraq, told the BBC that he was sacked in
part because he wanted to hold quick elections.
the "Marketplace" report
confirms what is being widely reported: that the common view in Iraq is that
members of the U.S.-appointed Governing Council are using their positions to
enrich themselves, and that U.S. companies are doing the same. President Bush's
idealistic language may be persuasive to Americans, but many Iraqis see U.S.
forces as there to back a corrupt regime, not democracy.
Now what?
There's a growing sense of foreboding, even panic, about Iraq among national
security experts. "This is an extremely uncertain struggle," says Mr.
Cordesman, who, to his credit, also says the unsayable: we may not be able to
"stay the course."
Break out the oars...
What Went Wrong?
Is it impossible for Americans to
believe that people can oppose occupation for non-religious reasons?
In fact,
that's all they can do. There's no acceptable military option--and the other
side knows it.
Do you really think that there is any miltary course that
they will actually pursue?
It IS extremely difficult for most
Americans to differentiate Muslims, jihadists, Wahabists, Shiites, Sunnis,
tribes, nationalists...
It is not easy to sort out but when most sort,
its BAD MUSLIMS v. Good Christian/Westerners...
Fits the Arab impression
- America on Crusade - nicely
You may not like the
term, but she was clear--it is estimated that there are 3000 people, maybe 80%
Iraqis in Fajullah ready to die in defense of Fajullah. That estimate may or may
not be correct, but there is some large number of people, hundreds at least,
willing to use force without considering the cost.
And, of course, there
are many more who are less fanatic, but will nonetheless resist occupation.
That's a very difficult military problem to solve.
What term do
you suggest?
However, in practice, it has come to mean the religious warriors who (in
large part) were "bred" in the Pakistan-Afghanistan militant cauldron, and then
have fanned out all over the Muslim world including places as disparate as
Bosnia, Egypt, China and the Philippines. The term thus refers to militants
galvanized by extremist interpretations of Islam, and devoted to violent
"defense" of Muslim interests.
There were no jihadis in Iraq before the
Americans attacked, and it is most likely stretching the term beyond
meaningfulness to apply it to the vast majority of the USA's opponents right
now.
There is probably an Al Qaeda-affiliated element at work now, given
these hallmark-type coordinated bombings. Those are the jihadis, it's unlikely
that they constitute more than a small fraction of the various factions arrayed
against the occupiers right now.
COPENHAGEN, Denmark -- Danish Defense
Minister Svend Aage Jensby said Friday he was resigning after lawmakers
questioned pre-war intelligence reports on Saddam Hussein's possession of
weapons of mass destruction.
Denmark supported the U.S.-led war in Iraq
and has 496 troops there under British command.
Jensby has been defense
minister under Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen since November 2001.
We
pretty much only know a few things -
1) The Sunnis are (in heartland
pockets) very suspicious that they're going to be fucked in the coming
democratic Iraq. One-man, one-vote = no sunni power. This may not change, though
the unbelievably late decision to bring back some Baathists may help.
2)
The Shia are in a holding pattern, with only al-Sadr playing the last cards in
his hand. They don't want violence, they don't want Najaf attacked, they just
want one-man, one-vote.
3) Americans are still being attacked, ambushed,
and killed in a steady trickle. Soldiers some of the time, "security personnel"
mercenaries all of the time. It's so bad that companies are holding off on
working on billion dollar contracts rather than risk their workers lives.
4) The populace has most likely turned, from a majority ambivalent and
hopeful about the Americans to a majority hostile and bitter about Americans.
They still want American firepower there, because otherwise the country is
fucked, but they now are completely cynical about the US.
5) Chalabi,
like the cold-blooded snake that he is, has managed to corner tremendous power -
still gets millions in cash from the US, plus free use of his own militia, plus
his nephew appointed to the sole body trying Saddam, plus his hands on blackmail
material for not just Iraq but the West as well. The next few months will see
him fight against the UN for total control of Iraq, against all the various
other factions within the country, and if he wins we have a smiley-faced and
compliant Saddam, nothing particularly different. In fact, um, that's what the
US did have before Hussein misstepped and took Kuwait.
Couple this
with the announcement that the State Dept wanted Spain to mediate the
PAL/Israeli conflict and
The recent provocations by the US in Iraq
including the threatened attacks on Fallujah and Iraq
The Dots are
connected...
Bush is going to try to win his election just as Sharon won
his...by provoking unimaginable turmoil and violence
The Push for War
Anatol Lieven considers what the US Administration hopes to gain
Thanks, Jex.
--
To understand the radical nationalist Right in the US, and the
dominant forces in the Bush Administration, it is necessary first of all to
understand their absolute and absolutely sincere identification of themselves
with the United States, to the point where the presence of any other group in
government is seen as a usurpation, as profoundly and inherently illegitimate
and 'un-American'. As far as the hardline elements of the US security
establishment and military industrial complex are concerned, they are the
product of the Cold War, and were shaped by that struggle and the paranoia and
fanaticism it bred. In typical fashion for security elites, they also became
conditioned over the decades to see themselves not just as tougher, braver,
wiser and more knowledgeable than their ignorant, innocent compatriots, but as
the only force standing between their country and destruction.
The connection?
The Neocons view this as the Final
Conflict of the Vietnam War and following culture wars...
It is a view,
in substance, indistinguishable from that of the Raptured "Christian" Base...
(Reuters)--Brahimi told France's Inter radio on Thursday that Israeli
policies toward Palestinians and Washington's support for them hindered his
search for a caretaker Iraqi regime that would take power on June 30 when the
U.S.-led occupation ends.
"The problems are linked, there is no
doubt about it," said Brahimi, a former Algerian foreign minister. "The big
poison in the region is the Israeli policy of domination and the suffering
imposed on the Palestinians."
Brahimi said his job was complicated
by Iraqi perceptions of "Israel's completely violent and repressive security
policy and determination to occupy more and more Palestinian territory."
--
I'm hedging bets, and have
the feeling that the Bushites may walk away from the UN if it looks like (a)
Brahimi will be critical of Bush's Israel stance and the world media picks it up
(b) if Brahimi tries to sideline Chalabi and (c) if Brahimi looks like actually
giving the transitional government any power at all.
Bush might use the
oil-for-food scandal as escape hatch/ruse if he has to sell the break with UN
recommendations.
From context,
it was clear what she meant--that among the opposition are hard core Islamists
willing to use suicidal methods to acheive their ends. You may dislike the
word--offer another one. But Mags had a perfectly valid observation. The number
may be high--talk is cheap. But there is some core opposition willing to commit
suicide to advance the cause. And that group does seem to have a religious
motivation. Have you read about how the 9/11 19 spent their last days?
Pelle--please reread Magoseph's post. She was saying that a
small number of opponents has this motivation, and they will therefore be
hard to find, with severe collateral damage.
She's right.
Mags wasn't doing this, Pelle.
Don't say that too loudly. Someone might hear you.
But that does seem to be the plan, doesn't it?
"A new poll shows that 57 percent of
Americans continue to believe that Saddam Hussein gave "substantial support" to
al-Qaida terrorists before the war with Iraq, despite a lack of evidence of that
relationship.
"In addition, 45 percent of Americans have the impression
that "clear evidence" was found that Iraq worked closely with Osama bin Laden's
network, and a majority believe that before the war Iraq either had weapons of
mass destruction (38 percent) or a major program for developing them (22
percent).
"There's no known evidence to date that these statements are
true.
"U.S. weapons inspector David Kay testified before Congress in
January that no weapons were found and prewar intelligence on Iraq was "almost
all wrong." CIA Director George Tenet last month rejected assertions by Vice
President Dick Cheney that Iraq had cooperated with al-Qaida.
"Despite
that record, many Americans continue to believe that the threat from Iraqi
weapons and its alleged links to terrorism justified the war. That conviction
correlates closely with support for the war and President Bush, the poll
released Thursday found.
"For example, among those who say most experts
agree that Iraq had banned weapons, 72 percent plan to vote for Bush. . . ."
This poll was taken last month, so maybe with recent developments (e.g.,
Bob Woodward's book) the public might now be starting to get the facts straight.
But it's still pretty amazing.
Well, the averaage citizen
doesn't spend very many minutes per day studying these issues.
The United States
and the top U.N. envoy to Iraq have decided to exclude the majority of the Iraqi
politicians the U.S.-led coalition has relied on over the past year when they
select an Iraqi government to assume power on June 30, U.S. and U.N. officials
said yesterday.
The latest shift in policy comes as the U.S.-led
coalition has to resolve some contentious and long-standing issues before the
transfer takes place. Earlier this week, the coalition moved to allow former
Baath Party members and military officers to return to government jobs.
At the top of the list of those likely to be jettisoned is Ahmed
Chalabi, a Shiite politician who for years was a favorite of the Pentagon and
the office of Vice President Cheney, and who was once expected to assume a
powerful role after the ouster of Saddam Hussein, U.S. officials acknowledged.
Smart move!
It's not over yet...
If the Rumsfeld clique launch an all-out assault on Falluja and Najaf,
then all bets are off.
And with respect to post June 1st I sincerely
don't understand how the UN can supervise anything by remote control. Clearly
they are not going to send any significant number of people to Iraq until the
security situation stabilises... which is no time soon.
I
too have a sense that some kind of disaster is brewing in Iraq. It could develop
into forced resignations of the unholy trio who have masterminded the Iraqi
debacle.
Remember Enron and Ken Lay--Lay had been a critical factor in
the political advance of Bush. His initial financial backing had a lot to do
with the Bush success. When he became a distinct liability, he was dropped. At
the time it was reported Bush refused to take even a phone call from him. My
guess is that Carl Rove was the instrument at that time.
My point is
that this man Bush can be moved and when he does, he moves in a radical fashion.
Staying the course in Iraq may now be interpreted by Bush as getting rid of the
impediments.
Eight
killed in Baghdad blasts as US raises alarm over troop shortage
BAGHDAD (AFP) - At least eight Iraqis were killed in
explosions in Baghdad's Sadr City neighbourhood as violence again took centre
stage following the deaths of two more US soldiers at the hands of insurgents
and four police in a car bombing.
Name: Narson B. Sullivan
Rank: Spc.
Branch of Service: Army
Age: 21
Hometown: North Brunswick
State: NJ
Date of Death:
04/25/03
WPost: Bush Likely to Dump Ahmed Chalabi
I'll believe
it when I see it.
Mago's right....you can get Bush to backoff but only
when the situation becomes dire and the rat has nowhere else to run
In any case, the plot to
install Chalabi has run into trouble. It is alarming, however, that Brahimi is
still worried that Chalabi's cronies such as Doug Feith in the Pentagon may yet
succeed in foisting him on Iraq.
By the way, the business relationship
of Ahmad Chalabi's nephew Salem with a law firm that has some sort of
affiliation with FANDZ, the firm of Mark Zell, a West Bank settler and former
and future Feith partner, was detailed by Brian Whitaker. The web site of
Salem's firm is registered to FANDZ. This Corpwatch article serves as a
follow-up to the Whitaker piece, but does not settle the issue of Salem
Chalabi's precise relationship to Jerusalem-based Zell, or the continued
relationship of both of them to Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith, Zell's
sometime partner. Chalabi's Baghdad firm appears to be structured so as to trade
on insider influence. Feith says he has cut off all relations with Zell's firm.
But then Dick Cheney was thought to have given up all his Halliburton interests,
at one time, as well.
Democracy Inacton -
Understanding Arab Anti-Americanism
Hollow Force
Has Iraq
stretched the U.S. military to its breaking point?
Raising the
Paper Tiger question....if the US military cannot handle the invasion of a state
with a crumbling regime and its occupation, how much of a threat is it?
And further proving a point I made two years ago....power is reduced
through its exercise.
It establishes why Bush is losing the GWOT
and why his War on Iraq is the fundamental reason why this is so.
...four U.S. solders were
killed around dawn, when two rockets were fired from a truck and slammed into
the base in Taji, 12 miles north of Baghdad, Air Force Lt. Col. Sam Hudspath
said. U.S. helicopter gunships then destroyed the truck, the military said.
Six soldiers were wounded in the attack, three of them critically, the
military said. The military had initially reported that a fifth soldier died of
his wounds afterwards, but later said that report was incorrect.
The
deaths, along with that of a Marine announced Saturday, brought to 106 the
number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq since the beginning of April. The military
announced the death of a soldier in a non-combat incident, bringing to 715 the
number servicemembers who have died in the country.
Anywhere from 900 to
1,200 Iraqis have been killed in April -- depending on various reports of the
death toll from Fallujah.
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Three boats
exploded near an Iraqi oil platform and two oil tankers off the Persian Gulf
coast on Saturday evening, a British military spokesman said, in what appeared
to be coordinated suicide attacks.
There was no immediate word on
casualties or damage from the blasts, Capt. Hisham H. Halawi said.
It
was the first known maritime attack on Iraqi oil facilities since the March 2003
U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. Insurgents have been attacking pipelines in the north
and south of Iraq, at times disrupting the vital export of oil.
We're fucked and the real issue isn't
whether some half-baked sludge about democratic revolutions can be made to work
but how can we best get the hell out of there - fastest - with the least
possible disruptionn
Unfortunately the GOP controls all the
mechanisms of government that might allow this to happen
A
Tale Of Two Photos
SEE Also: Media Watch: Human Beings As Feces On
FOX NEWS (Broadband) A must see program from Australia's ABC Click video if you
have a Dialup Connection Warning: Video Contains Graphics Depictions Of
War
If Bush decides to go ahead and storm the cities of Falluja and
Najaf, then Iraq is seriously fucked up, for several years to come. And the US
had better bring back the draft right now, because otherwise you're going to
have a problem keeping the army viable.
If, on the contrary, he decides
to make a serious attempt at the UN-sanctioned political transition (the two are
mutually exclusive), then there is still hope.
I wonder how he's going
to decide. Flip a coin?
"We're going to drive this guy
[Sadr] into the dirt," said Brigadier General Mark Hertling, the deputy
commander of the 1st Armoured Division. "Either he tells his militia to put down
their arms, form a political party and fight with ideas not guns, or he's going
to find a lot of them killed."
(Why doesn't Hertling form an Iraqi
political party himself, and find out how much support there is for his ideas?)
Meanwhile, the Bush
media continues to hold out the possibility of a peaceful capitulation by the
Jihad insurgents. How ridiculous can you be? The insurgents have laid the trap
and are prepared to execute it. There's only one question--How will the
Administration escape responsibility for this debacle?
particularly in the case of Falluja, it's very misleading
to refer to the opposition to the US as anything to do with Jihad.
That
is a Sunni city, which has never taken kindly to the US occupation, and while
some of the insurgents are no doubt sympathetic to other US opponents (like Al
Qaeda), it's plain inaccurate to assert that they are (1) motivated by religion
or (2) in any way part of the scattered global jihadi movements.
"The city has been completely surrounded for the past 10 days
and the fighters are trapped inside and cannot leave," said one local tribal
chief, Mansur Al Hadithi, who is sympathetic to the insurgents.
"Most
of these fighters are from Fallujah and determined to defend their city in case
of an attack," he said.
The Islamic Party and the Committee of
Ulemas, composed of top Sunni clerics, which helped broker the truce, have now
come under fire from within the Sunni minority over their mediation.
etc.
While that's true, banks, it may be that the most recondite core
may be islamists. It is, I agree, rather beside the point. Mago's larger point,
that the force in most determined opposition is too small to separate out from
the populace effectively.
A Pentagon spokesman today denounces the
insurgents for using mosques and schools to stockpile weapons. A minaret was
destroyed today, because the Americans said a sniper was firing from there. The
images are going to accumulate....
The Powell doctrine would seem to be
in play here. What is the objective? Is the force overwhelming? What is the exit
strategy?
Highly recommended -
"Americans like to think
that every problem has a solution, but that may no longer be true in
Iraq...."
I have just
read the Galbraith's article and I was, to say the least, much impressed. I hope
that it is read extensively and particularly by Administration sources.
I fear, however,that it may be too late in the day. The mistakes made by
the Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz team appear to be so fundamental and so gross as
to be irreversible. I knew it was bad but I have to confess, I didn't know how
bad until I read the article.
The only hope that I see would be that the
present situation in Iraq deteriorates so rapidly and to such an extent that
Bush takes drastic measures. It's possible that faced with a probable election
loss, he might remove Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and their entourage and replace them
with real soldiers. I could see Colin Powel emerging as the hero who puts the US
back on a rational course.
The only basis I have for this possibility is
that Bush, whenever faced with absolute disaster, tends to take drastic measures
for his own survival. That has been his history and there's no question in my
mind that he will do almost anything that is necessary for re-election.
Thank you again for that article.
I've watched Powell for a long time and I've thought highly of him
in terms of his integrity and perception. Until I read the Galbraith analysis, I
was unaware of the depths and extent of the incompetence of those individuals
controlling our policies in Iraq.
Only after reading that article, was I
able to grasp the position that Powell was placed in--resign and retain your
honor or humble yourself as a true soldier and do your best for your
comrades-in-arms. To his ever-lasting credit, he humbled himself, put up with
the incompetent fools surrounding him, and has made every attempt to salvage
what could be salvaged and to influence a President who appears to be incapable
of understanding the realities on the ground in Iraq.
The relevance to the current situation is the graphic and detailed
account of the clash of American and Iraqi weapon systems and associated
tactics. It is easy to apply the lessons of that series of engagements to the
difficulty faced by the Marines in Fallujah.
My take is that if the
decision is made to go in hard at least 4 battalions will be needed; each
attacking on a separate axis. Add 2 more battalions for exploitation and/or
reinforcement and you start getting close to a full division.
It is
doable, but only by using the American firepower advantages. In such an
environment substantial civilian casualties would be inevitable.
As to the rest, I don't see a good resolution, in the short run..
Being an optimist, I keep thinking that
surely they are learning from their mistakes; and undoubtedly they are, in some
respects. But time and time again, I discover, with astonishment, that months
after a blunder has become obvious to all observers, they are persisting in it.
Pragmatism is America's leading virtue. What happened to it?
And the
strategic blunders just keep on coming.
Now, I know it was not done out of spite or anything, but
really, would a withdraw and regroup out of rpg range been too much to ask for?
Cut it off and keep them pinned down and wait them out maybe I don't know. This
puts a solution or agreement in Falluja back a bit to say the least.
Britain is prepared to commit
more troops to Iraq but only on condition there is a new approach to security
and peacekeeping in the country, Whitehall sources said yesterday.
It's not like they paid any attention to British advice, at any
stage, at all before now. But maybe they'll get smart, and realise how helpless
and ignorant they really are.
The beginning of wisdom.
In a rebuke of British and American policy in the
Middle East, 52 former ambassadors and senior government officials signed a
letter on Monday criticizing Prime Minister Tony Blair for his unflinching
support for the Bush administration's approach to occupied Iraq and to the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
...President Bush has found himself forced to defend once more how
the war on terror led to Baghdad.
Some critics argue that some of the
first steps were taken by Mr. Feith's little intelligence shop. Whether its
findings influenced the thinking of policy makers or merely provided talking
points that buttressed long-held views, the unit played a role in the
administration's evolving effort to define the threat of Iraq — and sell it to
the public.
Reviewing the Fleet
The Nitwit of the US
was on tellin all good Amuricans what's happenin in Eyerak..
Its jess
"Saddamite, Al Qaeda who are friends of the Shiite Cleric"
I cannot
believe that a President of the US could be so piss ignorant!
Saddam
murdered Sadr's Dad and Al Qaeda would kill a Shiite in a heart beat
Marines
abandon siege of Falluja
US troops to pull
back from Falluja... to be replaced by a new force, the "Fallujah Protection
Army", to be run by former Saddamite generals...
I'm not going to
criticise Bush for changing his mind so radically.
US marines have agreed a withdrawal from positions in the
flashpoint Iraqi city of Falluja, according to an American military commander.
Lt Col Brennan Byrne said this would allow a newly created all-Iraqi force
to take control of the city on Friday.
But senior US defence officials
in Washington say they are not aware that any deal has been reached.
... so it's the Pentagon that's not up with the play? That's
interesting... verrrry interesting...
I have a funny feeling that these guys
are the insurgents...
An original way to put down a rebellion!
Iraqis said
71% US is an occupier
19% US is a liberator
57% US get out
now
The Sinclair Broadcast Group,
which is to television as Clear Channel is to radio (except for Sinclair's
smaller scope, 8 stations owned), is refusing to show this Friday's "Nightline",
in which Ted Koppel will show the pictures and read the names of our soldiers
who have fallen in Iraq.
It's stunning. These patriots want our war dead
to be anonymous and forgotten because a tribute to them might be politically bad
for Bush.
Here is more
information about Sinclair and its politics.
Thank heavens. If
this is true, someone is actually listening to the voice of reason. It's been
reported that the military insisted on a direct order from the president,
personally, before they would invade Fallujah. Perhaps that got the president's
attention.
They were quoted as saying that they
understood why the Fallujans were resisting. "If a foreign army surrounded San
Diego, we'd fight too. We'd just do a better job"
"Americans should
understand that most Fallujahans are against the small group of insurgents and
that most of the city is peaceful" GWB 4/28
I remember reading that, after the deaths of
the Blackwater guys, Bush had said "I want heads to roll". So the whole
irrational adventure is most likely his direct, personal responsibility.
and now we've got to be grateful because the fucking yoyo has changed
his mind and backed down.
In a way, it's encouraging that he's
apparently bypassed the Pentagon over this; but if he's going to micro-manage
the war, oh dear...
I just heard a news report that this
is not an official undertaking--battlefield negotiations rather than diplomatic.
But it's pretty clear that the troops on the ground do not want to go in.
The Empire of Evil is Crumbling
Lou
Dobbs....
Thursday, April 29, 2004
Retired Lt. Gen. William Odom,
former director of the National Security Agency, says the United States has
failed in Iraq and thinks it is time to get out. He joins us to explain why.
"The excerise of military power
without purpose"
"Tactical obssession with Saddam has completely
unhinged the GWOT and compromised US security"
"Troops support
withdrawal. Troops are dumb. They realize we have been on a downward spiral
chasing a fantasy with woefully inadequate force"
Interestingly enough, he says that the Marines could have carried the
city in less than four days with losses of 200 men. It appears to me that this
was a tough decision for the Bushies but as was predictable, the election
prospects took precedence over everything else.
Iraq
torture pictures condemned
· Inmates stripped and tormented
· Blair
'appalled'
· Not an isolated incident - Amnesty
BAGHDAD, Iraq April 30 — U.S. Marines will maintain a
strong
presence in and around Fallujah despite an agreement to hand over security to a
new Iraqi force largely made up of former Iraqi soldiers, a senior U.S. officer
said Friday.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt made his remarks as U.S. officials
in Iraq and Washington said an agreement had been reached to establish an Iraqi
unit to assume security and end the monthlong siege of Fallujah.
Witnesses saw Marines withdrawing from positions in the
southeastern part of the city on Friday and handing them over to the Iraqis.
However, Kimmitt told reporters that the new Iraqi force will be
"completely integrated" with Marines, who will retain strong presence "in and
around" the city.
He insisted that the Marines were not "withdrawing"
but were "repositioning" their forces.
George
"Saddam Hussein" Bush's Torture Chamber
Privatized of course!
Amnesty International said today it had
received numerous other reports of torture by coalition forces, of which
"virtually none ... has been adequately investigated by the authorities
Sy Hersh is on the story as are the families of those
charged..claiming a cover-up by the higher ups
Operation Iraqi
Freedom...just another lie
SS-Obergruppenführer Wolfowitz Inspects GWB Torture Facilities at Abu
Ghraib
Falluja fighters dent US morale
U.S. Marines handed control of Falluja to a former general in Saddam
Hussein (news - web sites)'s feared Republican Guard on April 30, 2004 in a bid
to end a month-long siege that killed hundreds in the city and infuriated
Iraqis. In a reversal of Washington's previous policy of excluding members of
Saddam's Baathist regime, Jasim Mohamed Saleh(L) told Reuters his force would
help police and other Iraqi security forces bring order to the city of 300,000.
Saleh is seen in a vehicle heading towards Falluja in this April 30 video still
image
He lost!
Iraqis celebrate with the national flag at a checkpoint leading into
Fallujah
WASHINGTON —
Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, testifying Thursday before a
congressional subcommittee, drastically underestimated the number of American
soldiers killed in Iraq since the war began.
"It's approximately 500, of
which — I can get the exact numbers — approximately 350 are combat deaths," said
Wolfowitz, one of the architects of the war.
According to the Pentagon,
726 U.S. troops had died in Iraq as of Thursday morning. Of those, 524 were
combat deaths. That figure does not include U.S. civilian deaths.
We heard talk of
"win-win"
We heard all of this from the very same people who said Saddam
was a menace to the region, to the US, to the world.
On
whether the result of the war was worth the loss of life and other costs, the
public now believes, by 25 points, that the result wasn't worth the cost (58-33;
61-31 among independents). And on whether Iraq was a threat that required
immediate military action, we are now down to only one-third who believe that
immediate action was necessary, compared to about two-thirds who believe the
Iraq threat either could have been contained or was not a threat at all. No
wonder people now believe, by 61-34, that the Bush administration was too quick
to get American military forces involved, rather than that the administration
tried hard enough to reach a diplomatic solution.
Next they'll be saying
the Bush administration didn't make the decision to invade Iraq when they said
they did--in March, 2003--but rather before that. In fact, that's exactly what
they say, by 68-23, even when explicitly informed that the Bush administration
claims they made that decision in March. In other words, the public
overwhelmingly believes they're lying about that.
We have heard
enough.
This is from a brief press availability the president gave this morning
with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin ...
There's a lot of people in
the world who don't believe that people whose skin color may not be the same as
ours can be free and self-govern. I reject that. I reject that strongly. I
believe that people who practice the Muslim faith can self-govern. I believe
that people whose skins aren't necessarily -- are a different color than white
can self-govern.
There is so much that is wrong-headed and dishonorable in
this repeated invocation -- an implicit, churlish claim that the only reason to
oppose him is racism -- that it is hard to know where to start.
Perhaps
the principal problem here is the president's belief that saying he's for
'democracy' makes it so, that making the claim places him on the moral high
ground even if he has no idea how to accomplish it, has already largely bungled
the process, and has already lost the trust of those whose democratic
aspirations he claims to defend and champion.
-- Josh Marshall
Name:
Jason W. Moore
Rank: Lance Cpl.
Branch of Service: Marine Corps
Age:
21
Hometown: San Marcos
State: CA
Date of Death: 05/19/03
But I only wonder.
The Shiites must be shiiting their pants
e are all capable of believing things which we
know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently
twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is
possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it
is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually
on a battlefield." That's from George Orwell's 1946 essay In Front of Your
Nose."
"Why don't we just bring back Saddam Jex?" Al D,
Eddie d, TommieD...
Why dontcha?
My local ABC affiliate (WSYX, channel 6, in
Columbus) is Sinclair-owned, so I had the pleasure of watching the substitute
programming.
The show combined man-and-woman-on-the-street interview
soundbites (which, to Sinclair's credit, included some pro-Nightline opinions)
with statements by Sinclair executives (such as the opinion that Nightline was
"trivializing" our war deaths). I was struck by the clonish appearance of the
Sinclair execs. They could have all come from a Central Casting requisition for
aging-yuppie, true-believer right-wingers. (That impression, of course, could be
my own liberal bias at work.)
What this whole episode highlights for me
is that there are influential right-wingers that really believe in
Democrat/liberal conspiracies and dirty tricks and other elements of the
professed Republican/conservative worldview. My view of Republican ideology is
that most of it is a scam (scamming the have-nots and the have-somes in order to
benefit the haves) that its proponents don't really believe. For example, I
don't think Repub/conservatives believe that a tax hike on the wealthy will
cripple the economy (as they all said in 1993) or that a minimum wage increase
will hurt the poor (as they all said in 1996); however, what those measures WILL
do is cost wealthy people a little money, and that's the REAL reason Republicans
oppose them.
But Sinclair shows me that some of the people who advance
this bullshit actually believe it.
He is wrecking democratic political discourse in this country.
Bush threatens our very freedoms.
CAIRO, Egypt - Images of
smiling U.S. military police humiliating Iraqi prisoners appeared in newspapers
around the Middle East on Saturday, angering Arabs who condemned the United
States as a champion of rights only for Americans.
Egypt's Akhbar el-Yom
newspaper splashed photographs of the U.S. soldiers posing by naked, hooded
inmates on page one with the banner headline "The Scandal." Al-Wafd, an
opposition paper, displayed similar photos beneath the headline, "The Shame!"
President Bush (news - web sites) has condemned the mistreatment,
saying he shared "a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they
were treated." He said that is "not the way we do things in America."
Arabs first saw the photographs on the satellite television stations
Al-Arabiya, based in the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar-based Al-Jazeera, which
led their news bulletins with them Friday. Most newspapers do not publish on
Fridays in the Arab world.
A U.S. Army report obtained by The New
Yorker magazine said Iraqi detainees were subjected to "sadistic, blatant and
wanton criminal abuses" at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.
"Pimps...don't do what the Americans do. Who
takes a bearded man, a Muslim, and lays him down with his face in another man's
genitals?" said Abdel Wadoud Muhbal, a currency trader in the Iraqi capital, on
Saturday. "They want jihad (holy war)."
"What's the difference between them and Saddam? They are
finishing what he started," he said
Arab
Reaction to Photos of Prisoner Abuse
I really wonder whether,
with the emergence of these photos, the game isn't over for the Americans in
Iraq. Is it realistic, after the bloody siege of Fallujah and the Shiite
uprising of early April, and in the wake of these revelations, to think that the
US can still win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi Arab public?
Not
to mention the
Shiite reaction to re-baathification
I saw the one with the female
soldier pointing and grinning at the man's genitals...I'm sure the mother of
that soldier is cringing in shame at what a creep she raised. Or at least she
should be.
' The
proposed plan to turn over control of the Fallujah security situation to an
Iraqi force under the command of four retired generals is much more significant
than might at first be apparent.
On the strategic level, with regard to
overall American policy in Iraq, it represents a defeat for those who have
contended all along that the insurgency is being carried on by a small group of
thugs who do not enjoy widespread support within the Iraqi population at large.
Strangely, George W. Bush does not seem willing yet to acknowledge this
obvious defeat for his policies.One cannot attribute this merely to bad advice
from his mentors, unless one is to believe that the neocons have a complete
monopoly on all in-put to his mental processes. That is not a credible
explanation. It seems more likely that his stubborn adherence to simplistic
explanations of all anti-American sentiments and actions is another sign of his
worrisome inability to comprehend the subtleties of this and other similar
international challenges falling within the broad title of "the war on terror".
Perhaps his intellectual mind-set ("there is no common ground between freedom
and terrorism") simply makes it impossible for him to see the world as anything
other than a zero-sum conflict between good and evil. That is very troubling
quality, especially in the leader of a superpower
Ray Close is the
former CIA Station Chief for Saudi Arabia.
All anyone can talk about today are those
pictures... those terrible pictures. There is so much rage and frustration. I
know the dozens of emails I’m going to get claiming that this is an ‘isolated
incident’ and that they are ‘ashamed of the people who did this’ but does it
matter? What about those people in Abu Ghraib? What about their families and the
lives that have been forever damaged by the experience in Abu Ghraib? I know the
messages that I’m going to get- the ones that say, “But this happened under
Saddam...” Like somehow, that makes what happens now OK... like whatever was
suffered in the past should make any mass graves, detentions and torture only
minor inconveniences now.
"The liberators are worse than the dictators. This is
the straw that
broke the camel's back for America . . . "That really, really
is the worst atrocity. It affects the honour and pride of Muslim people. It is
better to kill them than sexually abuse them.""
Daud al-Shiryan of Saudi
Arabia:
"This will increase the hatred of America, not just in Iraq but
abroad. Even those who sympathised with the Americans before will stop. It is
not just a picture of torture, it is degrading. It touches on morals and
religion . . . Abu Ghraib prison was used for torture in Saddam's time. People
will ask now what's the difference between Saddam and Bush. Nothing!"
Driver Hatem Ali, 30:
"Americans are racists and cowards, that's
what I understood from these pictures."
Mahmoud Walid, a 28-year-old
Egyptian writer:
"These soldiers are being touted as the saviours of the
Iraqi people and America claims to be the moral leader of the world, but they
have been caught with their pants down, they have been exposed, the whole world
sees them as they really are."
...senior military officers, and President Bush, [have] insisted that
the actions of a few did not reflect the conduct of the military as a whole.
[General] Taguba’s report, however, amounts to an unsparing study of collective
wrongdoing and the failure of Army leadership at the highest levels. The picture
he draws of Abu Ghraib is one in which Army regulations and the Geneva
conventions were routinely violated, and in which much of the day-to-day
management of the prisoners was abdicated to Army military-intelligence units
and civilian contract employees. Interrogating prisoners and getting
intelligence, including by intimidation and torture, was the priority.
The mistreatment at Abu Ghraib may have done little to further American
intelligence, however. Willie J. Rowell, who served for thirty-six years as a
C.I.D. agent, told me that the use of force or humiliation with prisoners is
invariably counterproductive. “They’ll tell you what you want to hear, truth or
no truth,” Rowell said. “‘You can flog me until I tell you what I know you want
me to say.’ You don’t get righteous information.”
Front Pages Sf Chron
Photographs of
American and British troops humiliating prisoners could change the public mood
across the world. But the coalition has brushed aside similar complaints for six
months
It is
a story whose details were filled in by two unnamed soldiers - A and B - who
told the Mirror how the young man had been picked up from the nearby docks for
stealing. 'As we took him back,' said soldier A, 'he was getting a beating. He
was hit with batons on the knees, fingers, toes, elbows and head ...
'Because it was so hot we put him in the back of a four-tonner truck
which has a canopy over it. That's where the photos were taken. Lads were taking
turns to give him a right going over, smashing him in the face with weapons and
stamping on him. We had him for about eight hours ...
Is this a
surprising result of Bush's months of fear and racist hatemongering?
Hell no.
We've seen the written equivalent right here courtesy
our dearly departed.
Good riddance to bad rubbish
He is a fucking war criminal whose defense to his crimes is diminished
capacity.
Lt. Gen. William
Odom, plus one or two others besides me) whose names escape me.
We're fucked.
By morons
"What? It's against the G.C. to torture prisoners
ala Suddam? Damn! No one told me that! And I can't strip them naked and pee on
them? No one told me I couldn't." Good god, are these soldiers all distant,
shirttale relatives of Bush, or what?
'We
Won': Fallujah Rejoices in Withdrawal
We'll have plenty of
time to try the war criminals...but first we best figure out that exit
strategery...ASAP...PDQ
Of COURSE prisoners are being tortured. There's a war on, damn it.
Those who can't stomach the inevitable, mechanical consequences of war,
should avoid starting or supporting them on flimsy justification.
Perhaps not, on the latter.
There has been a lot of talk about restrictions on interrogations being dropped,
post 9/11. I had a disturbing talk with a conservative friend who used the "If a
terrorist had a nuclear bomb about to go off, you'd agree that would justify
torture, right?" argument. This is the argument that led to the routine torture
of prisoners in Israel, prisoners who did not have a nuclear bomb about to go
off. A judge eventually reversed the policy.
We look like hypocritical,
arrogant power-mad oppressors now. How could managing the prisons
humanely--especially that prison--not been a priority?
That type of example was also used to argue
against giving Miranda warnings and allowing a little in custodial
torture in criminal cases. Fortunately the USSC never bought rhe argument.
I am not sure if better trained guards would have helped to avert what
went on. It appears that these tortures weren't just some frolic and caprice by
the guards but were under the direction or at least encouragement of the
"intelligent community," and according tio the NYT article cited aboce, with
knowledge by commanders and militarty "higher ups."
I am appalled that this kind of thing goes on and was allowed to
go on and equally appalled that we should, somehow, accept it and say, "Oh well,
it's war and anything goes."
That's an
open question at the moment. The only attributed quote I've seen to support this
POV is from a defense attorney for the six charged. I tend to agree with
you--the administration not going public with it as soon as it was known argues
in favor of this reflecting policy, implicit or explicit. But this
administration's immediate "stonewall" response makes it harder to speculate
accurately. And there's the fact that they relieved the commanding general,
which is also corroborative. I thought I saw a piece where she was claiming that
the intelligence people overrode her, or something, but I'm not sure of the
provenance of that recollection.
"An Army Reserve general
whose soldiers were photographed as they abused Iraqi prisoners said Saturday
that she knew nothing about the abuse until weeks after it occurred and that she
was "sickened" by the pictures. She said the prison cellblock where the abuse
occurred was under the tight control of Army military intelligence officers who
may have encouraged the abuse.
The suggestion by Brig. Gen. Janis
Karpinski that the reservists acted at the behest of military intelligence
officers appears largely supported in a still-classified Army report on prison
conditions in Iraq that documented many of the worst abuses at the Abu Ghraib
prison, west of Baghdad, including the sexual humiliation of prisoners.
. . . .
She said that while the reservists involved in the
abuses were "bad people" who deserved punishment, she suspected that they were
acting with the encouragement, if not at the direction, of military intelligence
units that ran the special cellblock used for interrogation. She said that
C.I.A. employees often joined in the interrogations at the prison, although she
said she did not know if they had unrestricted access to the cellblock."
Consequently, those I term as
"higher ups" knew about this, since she was admonished and "quietly" sent home.
Likud Vote Against Plan a Blow to U.S.
Credibility
The US doesn't have very much credibility left.
The Worst President Ever
Says
Resistance a result of US provocations
Torture and
beatings in New York prison.
This is just a disaster for American
foreign policy. There are quotes from today's front page story comparing Bush
with Saddam. We said that it would no longer be the case, in a free and
democratic Iraq, that people would be arrested and held without their families
knowing their fates or whereabouts, that the days of torture were over.
What we've seen in photographs happened is appalling. The fact that this
kind of abuse may have been systemic is beyond belief. And the idea that they
could scapegoat this onto the lowest level people MONTHS after the shit happened
is incredibly damning. This is precisely the kind of things that dictators do.
Jeff Greenfield pointed out on Imus this morning that there is nothing
more humiliating to a Muslim man than to have a woman staring at or touching his
genitals. He pointed out that one of the 9/11 hijackers made a special reference
asking that no woman be allowed to wash his body. (I guess he didn't really know
the plan, but let it lie.) He said, paraphrasing, that Bin Laden couldn't have
cooked up better propaganda pictures using Photoshop.
This is gonna
reverberate, deepen, and then reverberate some more. They need to, now,
internationalize the investigation using an independent organization like
Amnesty International, root it all out, and kill it. Very publicly.
I
didn't see the Sunday news shows, but from what I read, Myers was stonewalling.
He can't do that. Those pictures are everywhere, and they say, very loudly, that
America is a lying bully that will stoop at nothing.
A
former prisoner compares and contrasts Saddam with the US
Shweiri
said that while jailed by Hussein's regime, he was electrocuted, beaten, and
hanged from the ceiling with his hands tied behind his back.
"But that's
better than the humiliation of being stripped naked," he said. "Shoot me here,"
he added, pointing between his eyes, "but don't do this to us."
We know where the buck stops
There was a blurring of the duties of prison
guards--to keep the peace and prevent injury--and the duties of intelligence
officers--to obtain information. Or so the initial reporting seems to show.
This is particularly bitter reminder of how little prepared the
administration was for any event except the chimerical neo-con story of flowers
and candy, as Chelabi works his way into the head of the interim government, and
uses that to win a rigged election. (You'll recall that Rumsfeld said that there
were some electoral outcomes that could not be permitted.)
When the
harsh light of reality shown on those plans, everything just fell apart. And
they are still drifting, grasping at straws. No plans for an interim government.
Security in Fajullah in the hands of the Republican guard, who are quite
pointedly not cooperating.
It is time to seriously explore the "let them
have their civil war" option. Withdraw half the troops entirely on June 30. Move
the other half to Kurdish bases. Treat Kurdistan as the strategic asset they
were hoping for.
Call for a UN sponsored conference to pick a leader
before then. Then let the UN democracy groups try what they can to prevent the
civil war.
By blaming foreigners, U.S. authorities hope to quash the
idea that Iraqis are rising up against military occupation and frame the
conflict as part of the wider war on terror. However, foreigners play a tiny
role in Iraq's insurgency, many military experts say.
In Fallujah, U.S.
military leaders say around 90 percent of the 1,000 or more fighters battling
the Marines are Iraqis. To date, there have been no confirmed U.S. captures of
foreign fighters in Fallujah although a handful of suspects have been arrested.
It's an inevitable consequence of a
dirty war.
So is deliberate targeting of civilians.
Yeah, it
wasn't supposed to be a dirty war. Yeah. Remind me what the road to hell is
paved with.
This stuff was inevitable from Day One of the war.
Also, doesn't it seem strange that we would use contractors
to interrogate our prisoners?
What does the Geneva Convention say
about the use of private contractors to carry out routine torture? Does it limit
someone's liability?
And now it's "what you
mean we, paleface?"
:O(
Here we go : a moral.
You can't fight a good war based on lies.
They wanted it to be the case that the
aftermath would take care of itself, and when it didn't, they were fucked.
Khabees, who said much of what happened
is not uncommon in emerging nation prisons, but America is help to a higher
standard, because of it's own claim of civilized treatment of people, and these
actions will be used to stir up even greater hatred against the US by Muslim
countries.
What is mind-numbingly appalling is that
the administration's reaction to this was to minimize the domestic fallout. Not
to fix it. Not to find the root causes and remove them. Not to clean house, and
send a clear message to all US intelligence personnel and military prison guards
everywhere that this kind of abuse would not be tolerated.
To minimize
domestic political fallout. This is such a deeply deceptive, deeply cynical and,
at best, amoral group of people. Their strategy continues to be to exploit the
ignorant, and deceive the peripherally involved. Pretty soon we'll be hearing
little voices saying that many of these guys deserved this kind of treatment,
that men naked, with bags over their heads represented a threat to the republic.
Feh.
The Bush team is repeating the mistakes the
U.S. made in Vietnam..
By Lawrence J.
Korb, Lawrence J. Korb is a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress in
Washington and senior advisor to the Center for Defense Information
Fox is close...Bill O'Reilly
accused CBS of undermining troop morale with "gleeful" display of pics...
Several of the more strident ultra-nationalist media warriors have
already started laying the foundation for the "stab in the back" whine
May 3, 2004 | NEW YORK
(AP) -- CBS News delayed reporting for two weeks about U.S. soldiers' alleged
abuse of Iraqi prisoners, following a personal request from the chairman of the
joint chiefs of staff.
Gen. Richard B. Myers called CBS anchor Dan
Rather eight days before the report was to air, asking for extra time, said Jeff
Fager, executive producer of "60 Minutes II."
I'm sorry to say about
my fellow alum and fellow Texan that it is time for Dan Rather to go. An
honorable resignation is in order. I wouldn't expect anything honorable from
Meyers who increasingly reminds me of the magazine-cover generals we had in
Vietnam.
If Rather made this decision he must go. Having seen it all,
Vietnam, Watergate, Iran-Contra, he has no excuse. And Hell, a few years back he
shut down the network, let it go black, when his newscast was delayed by an
extended tennis match.
He'll never match the sainted Cronkite or the
beloved and over-rated Murrow, but an apology and a principled resignation would
cement his place in news history---And it might shine some more light on the
incredible bungling of the bushies and their minions.
Meyers wanted more
time? The report that Hersh cited is months old, for chrissake.
Capitol Hill-AP
-- A Democratic senator has criticized the Pentagon for failing to act quickly
following allegations of prisoner abuse at a U-S detention facility in Iraq.
New Mexico's Jeff Bingaman claims Pentagon officials have known about
the alleged mistreatment since January.
The chairman of the Joint Chiefs
of Staff -- General Richard Myers -- said during a television interview
yesterday that he had not read an internal report outlined in a story by The New
Yorker magazine. It spoke of "sadistic" abuses of prisoners.
Bingaman
calls Myers' comment "unacceptable."
"It is clear that the Bush administration
never intended a genuine democracy in Iraq for the policies that they have
persued - privatization, US control of oil and the economy, recognition of
Israel, five US bases - none of this could be done with a genuinely democratic
Iraqi government. Either they have been horribly disingenuous in their claims or
they have been horribly naive when it comes to the history and culture of the
Iraqi people"
On the silver lining side...he believes that most Iraqis
genuinely want democracy and that they will have it...if only Bush leaves
Columbia
U's MidEast Institute's Internet Research
Butterbar replacement for
Tales of the Tyrant?
Much has
been written about the damage done by foreign policy ideologues who ignored the
realities of Iraq, imagining that they could use the country to prove the truth
of their military and political doctrines. Less has been said about how dreams
of making Iraq a showpiece for free trade, supply-side tax policy and
privatization — dreams that were equally oblivious to the country's realities —
undermined the chances for a successful transition to democracy.
Rashid Khalidi Director of the
Middle East Institute at Columbia....
Probably did lunch with the
other professor at what Tavern on the Green, Cafe des Artistes???
Bush didn't talk about it...the media was
largely MIA but the facts were there...
The Neocon post war democratic
fantasy, the Democracy dominoes, the crackpot nation building, the costs, the
foolish reliance on INC crooks like Chalabi, the problems of ethnic and
religious strife, the vast costs, the damage to relations in the Middle East and
to US policy and security, the dubious case for WMD...all of these were
predicted consequences...all of them discussed right here.
Let them
that have ears buy a gross of Cue-Tips to clean out their ears!
The
problem of Iraq was always more complicated than "Saddam - very, very bad man"
But hey none of us get paid for due diligence...
The Bush
Administration is paid handsomely...
For the Bush Administration - the
deaf led the blind who led the disengaged...the clucking clueless, the Mayberry
Machiavellis...they have NO excuse
They dressed him in a
kafaiyeh and proclaimed him Ahmed of Arabia....
The neocons' Iraq
triumph of last year has turned to ashes. Their Likud allies in Israel are
bitterly split over Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plans for the settlements in
the territories. They have a coldly hostile Iraqi government coming in the near
future. The clerical regime they loathe in Iran has dramatically improved its
strategic position. Some of them must be rueing the day they met Ahmed Chalabi,
who told them the fairy tales they wanted to hear.
Correct
link
Ex-US
Diplomats Organizing Open Letter to the Moron King - Reverse Israel Policy
Reversal
The Neocon Clowns in
the Court of the Emperor of Moronia
In the popular political
imagination we're familiar with the neocons as conniving militarists, masters of
intrigue and cabals, graspers for the oil supplies of the world, and all the
rest. But here we have them in what I suspect is the truest light: as college
kid rubes who head out for a weekend in Vegas, get scammed out of their money by
a two-bit hustler on the first night and then get played for fools by a couple
hookers who leave them naked and handcuffed to their hotel beds.
And
just think, it's on your dime and with your nation's honor -- what an added
benefit.
From Charlie
Wilson's War, book about the covert CIA war against the Soviets in
Afghanistan...
Richard Perle
Here's the story:
Their
idea was to encourage Soviet officers and soldiers to defect to the mujahideen.
As [CIA chief Gust] Avrakotos derisively describes it, "The muj were supposed to
set up loudspeakers in the mountains announcing such things as 'Lay down your
arms, there is a passage to the West and to freedom.'" Once news of the program
made its way through the Red Army, it was argued, there would be a flood of
defectors.
....Avrakotos thought [Oliver] North and Perle were "cuckoos
of the Far Right"....
"What Russian in his right mind would defect to
those fuckers all armed to the teeth?" Avrakotos said in frustration. "To begin
with, anyone defecting to the Dushman would have to be a crook, a thief, or
someone who wanted to get cornholed every day, because nine out of ten prisoners
were dead within twenty-four hours and
they were always turned
into concubines by the mujahideen. I felt so sorry for them I wanted to have
them all shot."
Considering we are pouring all kinds of money in there,
considering this is a devastated country that has incredible needs, why on earth
isn't the us engaged in wpa type projects to employ these people rebuilding
their own country. Once they start building, once they start accomplishing, once
they start owning, they will be most reluctant to tear down their own hard work.
Once they see life improving and once they are allowed to take responsibility,
they will be less likely to blame the us for their problems. Once they see their
country and their lives improving, they will have less to complain about. This
is rather basic, IMHO. So why on earth aren't they doing more to employ all this
idle labor?
Oh yeah. All those US contracts. Can't interfere with the
contractors ability to make money in iraq. Hail Halliburton.
Socialism.
It's not
like, without a functioning govt, there is any hope of private enterprise doing
the job...no enforcement of contracts, no protection of property rights. Heck
they can't even walk the streets safely, let alone anything else.
But
the larger issue as friedman keeps quoting sommers, no one has ever washed a
rented car. It's really critical for the iraqis to start taking and feeling
ownership and responsibility for their country.
Instead, one article i
read suggested that the few iraqis who did try to start some private enterprise
were stopped by the us as it was inteferring with the work being done by
contract providers. How on earth does that make sense. How is that not just
another form of socialism, only difference being who wins?
That's a part of war too. Like torturing prisoners, and shooting
civilians.
Though I was honestly shocked by the shooting at ambulances
in Falluja.
Sa'idi: American Democracy
is Dead save for the Facade
Abdul Basit Turki, Iraq's first
Minister of Human Rights, had his resignation accepted on Sunday. He had
tendered it in response to the way the US dealt with the situation in Fallujah,
among other issues. He maintained that he had heard horror stories about abuses
at Abu Ghuraib last fall and had briefed American civil administratrator Paul
Bremer about them, but that Bremer took no action:
' In November I
talked to Mr Bremer about human rights violations in general and in jails in
particular. He listened but there was no answer. At the first meeting, I asked
to be allowed to visit the security prisoners, but I failed," he said. "I told
him the news. He didn't take care about the information I gave him." '
Tony
Cordesman argues that the prison abuse scandal may have fatally undermined
the US war on terror. ' "Those Americans who mistreated the prisoners may not
have realized it, but they acted in the direct interests of al Qaeda, the
insurgents, and the enemies of the U.S.," said Tony Cordesman at the Center for
Strategic and International Studies who has held various positions in
government. "These negative images validate all other negative images and
interact with them," he said in a statement, citing "careless U.S. rhetoric
about Arabs and Islam," failures to stabilize Iraq, continued
Israeli-Palestinian violence and fears the United States is out to dominate the
Middle East. '
One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small
"Chalabi's neocon supporters are beginning to realize that he is every
bit the huckster and fraud that his most unyielding enemies at State and CIA
said he was. He lured them in with all manner of improbable claims about the
pain-free peace he'd make with Israel, how he'd upend Arab nationalism and
generally make all the intractable conundrums of the region disappear.
"In the popular political imagination we're familiar with the neocons as
conniving militarists, masters of intrigue and cabals, graspers for the oil
supplies of the world, and all the rest. But here we have them in what I suspect
is the truest light: as college kid rubes who head out for a weekend in Vegas,
get scammed out of their money by a two-bit hustler on the first night and then
get played for fools by a couple hookers who leave them naked and handcuffed to
their hotel beds.
"And just think, it's on your dime and with your
nation's honor -- what an added benefit."
Atrios nailed em too...
Morons
Damn.
The worst Adminsitration EVER
Animal House the Sequel
__Bush Hiding War's Cost to Avoid Public Outcry
USA Today:
"Today, the fighting in Iraq has worsened, the Pentagon is keeping more troops
in the field than it had planned, and the price tag keeps rising. That has
prompted Republicans to join in complaints that the Bush administration has not
come clean about the costs. 'Every
ground squirrel in this country knows
that it's going to be $50 (billion) to $75 billion in additional money this
year,' said Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. By refusing to level with Congress and the
public about the true costs of the war, the administration delays a needed
national debate on
the difficult choices the government must make to pay for
the Iraq operation at a time when it is saddled with a record $500 billion
deficit.
Even the military brass concedes that the Iraq and Afghan
missions, which have already cost $150 billion, are running over budget... At
roughly $4.7 billion a month, the tab for Iraq and Afghanistan is approaching
the average cost of U.S. operations in Vietnam."
If the war in Iraq
is not worth your own family fighting it, then it's not worth it for America.
Yesterday in a Q & A with
editors from Detroit area newspapers President Bush said he was "shaken" by
reports of abuse of prisoners in US military custody in Iraq. Yet, according to
his press secretary this morning, he hasn't even looked at the Taguba Report,
the one people around the world are buzzing about in disappointment and outrage
and half of Washington seems already to be reading.
In fact, in this
exchange from that Q & A yesterday it wasn't even clear the president knew
what the report was ...
Its just Bullshit folks. Made in USA
by BushWorld Entertainment
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States, faced with growing military
casualties in Iraq (news - web sites), announced on Tuesday that it was
scrapping a plan to reduce its forces and would keep about 138,000 troops in
that country through at least the end of 2005.
But they cannot tell
us what its gonna cost ....
Even a ground squirrel could do that..
Are they lying AGAIN?
Dear Mr President:
We former US diplomats applaud our 52 British colleagues who recently
sent a letter to Prime Minister Tony Blair criticising his Middle East policy
and calling on Britain to exert more influence over the United States.
As retired foreign service officers we care deeply about our nation's
foreign policy and US credibility in the world.
We also are deeply
concerned by your April 14 endorsement of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's
unilateral plan to reject the rights of three million Palestinians, to deny the
right of refugees to return to their homeland, and to retain five large illegal
settlement blocs in the occupied West Bank.
This plan defies UN Security
Council resolutions calling for Israel's return of occupied territories.
You have placed US diplomats, civilians and military doing their
jobs overseas in an untenable and even dangerous position
It ignores
international laws declaring Israeli settlements illegal.
It flouts UN
Resolution 194, passed in 1948, which affirms the right of refugees to return to
their homes or receive compensation for the loss of their property and
assistance in resettling in a host country should they choose to do so.
And it undermines the Road Map for peace drawn up by the Quartet,
including the US. Finally, it reverses longstanding American policy in the
Middle East.
Your meeting with Sharon followed a series of intensive
negotiating sessions between Israelis and Americans, but which left out
Palestinians.
In fact, you and Prime Minister Sharon consistently have
excluded Palestinians from peace negotiations.
The report was prepared by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba on
alleged abuse of prisoners by members of the 800th Military Police Brigade at
the Abu Ghraib Prison in Baghdad.
It was ordered by Lt. Gen. Ricardo
Sanchez, commander of Joint Task Force-7, the senior U.S. military official in
Iraq, following persistent allegations of human rights abuses at the prison.
Editor’s note: The report includes graphic descriptions of events some
readers may find objectionable.
Hussein's Army - The Sequel
The Fallujah Brigade
Defenders of the Women and Children of Fallujah
Gen Latif joined Gen Saleh today and the two marched off to meet
cheering citizens with their army which the Marines say includes insurgents.
Allahu Akbar!
"Pat isn't with God,'' he said. "He's f -- ing
dead. He wasn't religious. So thank you for your thoughts, but he's f -- ing
dead.''
What? This didn't happen for God, as well as country? A
professional athlete turned soldier, and we're supposed to believe that he'd
have no use for piety? Robbed of a cliche, where does that leave us?
Sfgate: More
The above link comes
from Le Monde but the content is in English.
"This is an opportunity for the president to speak directly
to the people of Arab nations and let them know that the images that we all have
seen are shameful and unacceptable," McClellan told reporters during a Bush
campaign tour.
It will be interesting to see if it has any effect.
Personally I think it's too late.
Either the guy is losing it or he's back to drinking
again. But clearly he's not in charge. Or I hope he's not in charge, because if
he is, he is incredibly disengaged in anything that is going on. Apparently the
reports about torture of the iraqi prisoners came to light in january and it is
not clear there was any reaction from the top whatsoever. You see, at that time,
apparently, they didn't know there were pictures.
But then again, we're
talking about a guy who thinks riding around in a bus retrofitted with flat
panel tv and leather couches is a way of showing he's "in touch" with the real
people. I know the metro buses around here are equally luxurious!
This
is not good. I'm getting increasingly angry and bitter and cynical. This is not
good.
1) the scumbag
should go to jail. He's a professional (civilian prison guard), he knew what he
was doing.
2) he won't, he carefully covered his arse by asking for
guidelines, so as he points out, legally speaking the responsibility lies with
the higher-ups who left them to their own devices
3) undoubtedly nobody else
will go to jail either, because nobody will have the guts to stop the buck.
Scramble To Placate Arabs
He just winds up looking like an idiot and screwing US
Welcome to the Dark Side Thoughtful!
It ain't so bad here
Anger...not a bad thing
thoughtful...perfectly human...listen to it...
A
Wretched New Picture Of America
Photos From Iraq Prison Show We Are Our
Own Worst Enemy
Guest Commentary
Ray Close
"I take all of
this as additional strong evidence supporting the points that I made last week,
before the new compromise solution in Fallujah was proposed:
3. This
means that the US Army will probably be obliged to leave Iraq before Bush,
Rumsfeld & Company are prepared to manage the retreat as if it were a
triumphant event for freedom; the Americans will therefore be seen by the rest
of the world, and particularly the Muslim world, in much the same light as were
the Israelis when they departed from Southern Lebanon ---as a frustrated and
defeated occupation force expelled by victorious nationalists; this will make
many Americans who supported the "liberation" of Iraq extremely angry and
resentful; the British and other members of the glorious "coalition of the
willing" will effectively have to make the best of a bad situation --- if they
haven't wisely removed themselves from the scene in the meanwhile;
4.
All of which makes the probabilities of chaos and civil war in Iraq next year
even higher than we pessimists have been predicting. (UNLESS the "expulsion" of
the American "occupiers" serves to unify Iraqis and restore their sense of
national unity and common purpose; my fear is that this would be only a
temporary triumph at best; historic divisions and rivalries would very soon
resurface, and chaos would pick up where it left off.) "
Ray Close is
the former CIA Station Chief for Saudi Arabi
This is the anger that is
scary....mass American anger...Bush knows how to play to the Dark Side
al-Hayat alleges
that a Parisian television channel aired new footage Tuesday night from Iraq of
American troops who fire on three men that do not obviously pose any danger to
them. The provider, a European who had worked in Iraq, said he had smuggled the
cassette out of Iraq.
Knight-Ridder's Hannah Allam has done an excellent
report on the continued impact of satellite television stations in Arabic on
Iraqi public opinion. Al-Jazeerah and al-Arabiya have shown a lot of uncensored
and explicit images from Iraq, including the bloody siege of Fallujah (which W.
had personally ordered), and the recently released photographs of prison abuse
in Iraq.
Allam notes that the US alternative, al-Hurra, provides less
than an hour of hard news per day, and is widely ridiculed in Iraq as the
gardening channel because of the pablum in which it specializes. Even when it
does news, it can't be very effective. I saw a program list recently, and it
started off with an interview with Elie Wiesel about how he can't support the
Palestinian cause because Palestinians engage in violence. At a time when the US
siege of Fallujah was fresh in everyone's minds, this must have struck Arab
viewers as the crock of steaming excrement that it is. And if that is the lead
segment on the US-provided 45 minutes of news, then the US may as well not
bother.
What is absent from Allam's article is any mention of the radio
situation. It is not widely recognized that Norman Pattiz and a few colleagues
who were appointed to the broadcasting board by Clinton have gutted the Arabic
service of the Voice of America. That Arabic service used to be among the best
and most extensive providers of news and discussion programs in the Arab world.
Pattiz complains that it only reached 1 percent of listeners because it was
broadcast on shortwave. But since the US can broadcast FM signals in Iraq, it
could now be being beamed to Iraqis if it had still existed. It doesn't. Pattiz
killed it for God knows what ulterior motive. He has tried to replace it with
Radio Sawa, which broadcasts Britney Spears to the Arabs, and only has short AM
radio-style news breaks twice an hour. This "news" is heavily propagandistic in
form, using loaded languages. Young people listen to it in the Arab world, but
say they tune out the staccato news announcements.
So in the wake of
September 11 and the US occupation of Iraq, the big media move of the Bush
administration was . . . to abolish the Arabic service of the Voice of America!
It boggles the mind.
posted by Juan Cole at 5/5/2004 08:45:36 AM
Effort Is Intended
To Placate Arabs"
... Whitehouse hopes Jewish voters in US won't
hear about it...
Okay, everyone who feels better now, raise
your hand.
I would have thought that line of defense was
invalidated by the Nuremberg trials.
Among the corrosive lies a nation at war tells itself is that the
glory -- the lofty goals announced beforehand, the victories, the liberation of
the oppressed -- belongs to the country as a whole; but the failure -- the
accidents, the uncounted civilian dead, the crimes and atrocities -- is always
exceptional. Noble goals flow naturally from a noble people; the occasional act
of barbarity is always the work of individuals, unaccountable, confusing and
indigestible to the national conscience
"Oh it aberrant behavior"
"Oh its a chain of command problem"
"Oh its a training problem"
"Oh its a outsourcing problem"
"Oh its not bad..its like
fraternity hazing" (Sean Hannity - Fox)
That is all bullshit.
The real problem is that what happened is but the natural and expected
consequence flowing from what this war has always been about.
For what
has driven this war from the outset is a hatred of Arabs and fear, mongered,
exploited, deliberately conciously and maliciously by the Cheney/Bush regime...
Rummy was telling the truth when he said that what had changed WRT
Iraq was 9/11...not because of any danger to the US or the region or any of that
happy horseshit...what changed was that Bush could exploit fear, hate, and a
desire for revenge...
And he did it in spades.
For him to
now apologize is bullshit..
Rummy is at least honest for refusing to do
so
World editorial reaction is
vehement. We are under the suspicion of the International Red Cross and Amnesty
International. "US military power will be seen for what it is, a behemoth with
the response speed of a muscle-bound ox and the limited understanding of a
mouse," said Saudi Arabia's English language Arab News.
Mopping up
operations continue by the US military against the Mahdi Army, according to
Reuters. US troops assaulted two buildings in Diwaniyah that had been used by
Mahdi Army fighters to attack US forces on Tuesday. In the course of the fight,
Mahdi Army guerrillas killed three US troops. ' The operation also included a
raid on a building housing Sadr's office and an adjacent building by soldiers
from the 1st Armoured Division and the 2nd Armoured Cavalry Regiment, the
statement said. ' This comes after similar attacks on Sadrist sites and
personalities in Hillah.
Received the following (take with grain of
salt, since it just reflects rumors in Najaf):
Called Najaf yesterday.
Resentment towards Moqtada still strong. They started firing against Americans
at 10 - 03 at night. Americans spot and strike back with helicopters injuring
and killing civilians on each occasion. My friend reports a helicopter shot down
at Kufa. Cannot confirm his info.
posted by Juan Cole at
5/5/2004 02:25:10 PM
Name: Atanacio Haromarin
Rank: Sgt.
Branch of
Service: Army
Age: 27
Hometown: Baldwin Park
State: CA
Date of
Death: 06/03/03
(maybe that's all wjc had to say re lewinsky...he was just
stressed and needed to let off some...er....steam)
Another thing I was surprised by was that at least five of the dead were
Lt. Colonels. These officers are typically battalion commanders, commanding ~600
soldiers. I wonder if most of the LtCols were killed when helicopters were
brought down.
All Slick really had to say
was the truth, as he'd taken an oath to do. Really, that was all he had to say
and if he'd told the truth our situation would likely be much better today.
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