10002. jexster - 9/16/2004 8:12:47 AM
Pathetic....real winning message there TD..say speaking of messages..howze that search going
RESULTS MATTER
10003. jexster - 9/16/2004 8:12:49 AM
Pathetic....real winning message there TD..say speaking of messages..howze that search going
RESULTS MATTER
10004. jexster - 9/16/2004 8:13:57 AM
Stop messing up the Thread..throw that bad hooch out
10005. concerned - 9/16/2004 8:17:07 AM
'Dougie's' book is written at the perfect mental age level for most Democrats.
10006. concerned - 9/16/2004 11:45:52 AM
10007. alistairconnor - 9/16/2004 12:10:13 PM
How big is Bush's lead?
As big as his courage.
As big as his problem-solving ability.
As big as his integrity.
That's right... it's less than zero.
The poll also concluded that without Nader, Kerry is leading Bush nationally by 48% by 45% and with Nader by 46% to 45% with Nader at 3%. Among likely voters, it is Kerry 47%, Bush 47%, Nader 3%. The Harris national poll (Sept. 9-13) puts Kerry ahead 48% to 47% and the Pew poll (Sept. 11-14) puts Bush ahead 47% to 46%. In contrast, Gallup (Sept. 13-15) has Bush ahead 55% to 42%. It is not clear why Gallup is contradicting three other polls that say the race is tied nationally.... from electoral-vote.com
10008. Magoseph - 9/16/2004 1:47:14 PM
Is it possible that the profusion of hurricanes off Florida is related to global warming, increasing water temperatures, or sustaining ocean warmth? If so, Floridians have every right to connect George Bush for the present disaster in Florida as a result of his kayoing of the Kyoto Global Warming Agreement.
10009. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 1:47:47 PM
Another AK-47 for iiibbb!: COPS SEIZE WEAPONS FROM HOME OF TEENAGER--POLICE SAY ONLINE CHAT THWARTED A COLUMBINE-LIKE SCHOOL ATTACK
Police thought it was a case of boneheaded teen bragging when the tip came in.
But then they found homemade bombs, school blueprints, an AK-47 ASSAULT RIFLE and shotguns stashed in his basement and attic.
The teen's father could also face charges. Officials said knew about the stolen weapons and helped his son hide them in the basement and attic ceilings....
Somebody should do a study on the type of people who have assault weapons. They sure arent't your average hunter or target shooter. I'm sure it would show that Bush is protecting the rights of a bunch of terrorist, psychos, sickos and criminals.
iiibbb says the assault weapons law didn't work so why renew it? I say if it didn't work why not strengthen it?
More here.
10010. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 1:51:34 PM
Another try: Here.
10011. alistairconnor - 9/16/2004 2:25:19 PM
Ah but the guns were stolen! No use making laws about guns : theft is already a crime.
It's not hard to steal guns when there are millions in circulation.
It would be hard to steal guns if the numbers in circulation matched the number of people who need them.
10012. alistairconnor - 9/16/2004 2:26:50 PM
But anyway, guns don't kill people.
If he couldn't get guns, probably that boy would have committed a Columbine-style massacre with a slingshot and a pocket knife.
(People do that all the time, in countries where guns aren't readily available.)
10013. iiibbb - 9/16/2004 2:48:32 PM
If that was a real assault rifle it was illegal for him to have anyway.
"Somebody should do a study on the type of people who have assault weapons. They sure arent't your average hunter or target shooter. I'm sure it would show that Bush is protecting the rights of a bunch of terrorist, psychos, sickos and criminals."
Cite please... otherwise it's your jaded, biased opinion. Assault weapons account for about 1% of all guns used in crimes, according to the criminals themselves. Using the inclusive definitions of assault weapons, the BoJ statistics indicate they are used 16% of murders. Why you think that banning them means they won't get a different weapon I don't know. It's not like the criminal decides not to commit a murder just because they can't find a high-capacity magazine for sale.
Most people I know that shoot military style weapons are vets or people interested in target shooting. I'm afraid I just don't know many terrorists or "sickos". These weapons are popular because surplus ammunition makes them inexpensive to practice with. They are also a challenge to shoot well. Target shooting with a finely zeroed bench rifle just isn't as interesting to be honest.
10014. iiibbb - 9/16/2004 2:48:40 PM
Face it, it was a Pointless gun ban. The fact that liberals keep pushing whatever ban they can just proves they're ignorant or not willing to make a honest attempt at solving gun crime. Remember... in your first citation, we let a 14 year old murderer back out on the street to shoot again.
How do you want to strengthen it? Give me precise prescriptions on how your measures will prevent crime. I'm interested how you're going to get criminals to comply with bans... The government isn't exactly serious about enforcing the laws they've got. Take the Almost 200,000 stops on purchases... less than convitions. Why aren't they arresting these people?
10015. iiibbb - 9/16/2004 2:50:09 PM
Message # 10010
Actually... they caught the guy anyway. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades.
10016. iiibbb - 9/16/2004 2:52:09 PM
Anyhow... the venom and sarcasm you Alister and Wonkers display toward gun owners only shows that there is no real desire to work the problems out.
It's becomes no surprise that the NRA stonewalls the way they do.
10017. iiibbb - 9/16/2004 2:55:08 PM
If Kerry loses, they're going to blame it on the vast right wing conspiracy... or the "powerful" gun lobby.
I'm certain they will be unwilling to admit that it's their words and deeds that make it so even someone like Bush can beat them.
Typical liberals... *whine* It's not our fault *whine*.
10018. jayackroyd - 9/16/2004 3:44:09 PM
You obviously didn't watch Bush's acceptance speech.
10019. judithathome - 9/16/2004 4:05:22 PM
Thanks, Concerned, for posting a picture of Bush's library in Message # 1000...
10020. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 4:32:14 PM
Venom toward gun owners? Hardly. I have two myself--a Winchester Model 12 shotgun and a .22 Remington bolt action repeater. My venom is toward the profiteering junk gun makers and dealers who sell to sickos, gun nuts, terrorists, children, and anyone with the money to buy. The majority of gun owners who hunt and target shoot are fine people. The sleaze ball manufacturers have conned people like iiibbb into thinking that their rights to own guns are threatened. Nothing could be further from the truth.
10021. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:06:42 PM
Re. 10008 -
You're pulling our collective leg, right? The last time Kyoto saw the light of day in the US, the Senate voted it down 95-0 during Xlowntoon's reign.
Do you have any idea of the breadth of opposition such a unanimous rejection means? It's completely bipartisan.
Yet you foolishly blame Bush for what he had nothing to do with.
10022. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:08:14 PM
I wish Magoseph could connect the dots on this one.
10023. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:10:00 PM
Why the implicit faith that Kyoto is worth anything, anyway? The pure symbolism is supposed to make people feel like something positive is happening?
10024. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:11:01 PM
Even the IPCC has admitted that Kyoto will accomplish virtually zilch. So why bother?
10025. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:12:39 PM
I believe Kyoto will probably detract from, because of the imposition of government mandate, some of the effort that the private sector would otherwise invest in improving energy efficient technology.
10026. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:23:44 PM
This is for several reasons. Among them are suppression of private economic activity through higher fuel taxes and effective restriction of the allowed sphere of energy related technology development due to increased government oversight.
10027. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:27:12 PM
One might argue that these effects will be minor, or not even all be applicable. But, so are the alleged benefits of Kyoto.
10028. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:36:10 PM
What's wrong with you Lefties, anyway? Ripping up Bush/Cheney campaign signs out of little 3 year old girls' hands. That's pretty low.
10029. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:41:48 PM
LW jerk at the Left, enjoying the little girl's distress.
10030. concerned - 9/16/2004 5:42:45 PM
Looks like a person of color in the background, reading out the ee-vile 3 year old 'Republican', too.
10031. jexster - 9/16/2004 5:55:22 PM
Follow the Yellow Brick Road..Adventures in BushWorld
You can't solve a problem if, through your spin soaked crackpot ideology, you can't see that there is a problem to solve.
Growing Unease With Bush IraQ Misadventure as Violence Mounts, Security Withers
The committee's moderate Republican chairman, Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, expressed exasperation at the administration's rosy prewar assessments that as soon as Hussein was deposed, a euphoric Iraqi population would embrace democracy.
"The nonsense of that is [now] apparent," he said. "The lack of planning is apparent."
"Nonsense" - that's Lugar's assessment of TD's last foray to pontificate on matters he doesn't know anything about.
10032. jexster - 9/16/2004 5:59:44 PM
I have been saying this for a year now....
The NIE follows other pessimistic assessments made public recently by respected independent think tanks. Britain's prestigious Royal Institute of International Affairs concluded that Iraq would be lucky to avoid an internal breakup and civil war and that the chaos could spark upheaval elsewhere in the Middle East.
Bush is Living In a Fantasy World of Spin
Kerry Takes the Gloves Off on IraQ
10033. iiibbb - 9/16/2004 6:00:15 PM
Message # 10008
The long run average of named storms per year is just under 20
About 6 TS, 12 Lesser Hurricanes and about 2 major storms
NOAA FAQ
10034. iiibbb - 9/16/2004 6:03:39 PM
Message # 10020
yes venom... I quote you
"Somebody should do a study on the type of people who have assault weapons. They sure arent't your average hunter or target shooter. I'm sure it would show that Bush is protecting the rights of a bunch of terrorist, psychos, sickos and criminals."
Someone should do a study... people that are into "Assault weapons" can't be normal... they must be terrorists, psychos, sickos, and criminals.
That's venom...
"I have two myself--a Winchester Model 12 shotgun and a .22 Remington bolt action repeater. "
That's weak... akin to "I'm not a racist... I have lots of black friends"
10035. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 6:10:38 PM
Kitty Kelly has been dishing dirt, quite convincingly, on the Bush family this morning on the Diane Rheam show--Bush was an alcoholic and addicted to drugs well into his 40s, Bush once drove his car in through the back end of his garage, enraged over Laura's criticizm of a speech he had given earlier that evening; the White House called the Chairman of NBC and tried to get Kelly's appearance on the Today Show cancelled and succeeded in getting her cancelled from several conservative Fox and NBC shows; Bush's father was quite a ladies man and, for a time, kept an Italian mistress in a NYC apartment, ditching and ditched her just before running for the Senate (later he gave speeches criticizing Nelson Rockefeller for his divorce when Rocky was running for the GOP nomination for President); Bush did cocaine at Camp David when his father was president (or VP?); Bush and Laura weren't on speaking terms for the rest of the family for a year due to Georgie's outrageous behavior, etc, etc.
10036. iiibbb - 9/16/2004 6:18:03 PM
"Bush's father was quite a ladies man and, for a time, kept an Italian mistress in a NYC apartment, ditching and ditched her just before running for the Senate (later he gave speeches criticizing Nelson Rockefeller for his divorce when Rocky was running for the GOP nomination for President)"
By this dirt are we supposed to admire Bush sr. for being more like Clinton? I thought liberals were all about how what goes on in your personal life doesn't matter. Wasn't Clinton justfied in lying about it later as well?
Not defending Bush... just trying to figure out your standards here and all...
How do you feel about Kennedy's drunk driving knowing how you feel about this? Currently, if we beleive the rumors, he's killed more people with his car than I have with my guns.
10037. thoughtful - 9/16/2004 6:21:11 PM
Well, kennedy killed as many people with his car as laura bush did.
10038. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:27:40 PM
TD asked me a question last night about the Gallup outlier poll which I answered substantially the way AL HUNT did in today's WSJ...
Nota Bene the report on turnout expectations...my 115,000,000 prediction is DEAD middle of what the B/c and K/e campaigns predict...
Could be coincidence, could be the sheer genius of a political "beautiful mind"..;)
For more detailed info see Teixeira's Short Course on the Subject
10039. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:28:45 PM
Election Surveys That Screen Out
'Unlikely' Voters Might Be Outdated
Al Hunt, WSJ
September 17, 2004
Presidential elections are poll-driven. The candidate ahead in the surveys usually gets better coverage, and the results energize supporters. The one behind often comes across as doing little right, and campaigns and constituencies lose confidence.
But what if the polls are wrong, and we aren't surveying the real likely electorate?
This might be more than an academic issue. A number of polls this presidential race show a gap in the preferences of registered voters vs. likely voters. In these models, the president usually does better with likely voters, the figure most news organizations emphasize. To get to likely voters, all polling organizations use what is called a "screen," asking questions to determine who is likely to actually turn out on election day.
These screens differ greatly, as there is no consensus among experts on what works best. "This is an art, not a science," says Peter Hart, the prominent Democratic polltaker who has helped conduct The Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey for 15 years.
10040. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:29:06 PM
This controversy will be fueled by today's just-released Gallup poll that shows George Bush with a 13-point lead over John Kerry. That is at variance with other surveys this week, which suggest a tight race with a much smaller Bush tilt. But the likely voters margin also is considerably larger than the eight-point advantage in Gallup's registered voters in this survey. The likely voters match-up invariably gets more attention.
10041. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:29:42 PM
Gallup explains it has what it considers a time-tested formula for determining most likely voters. It asks eight questions, such as current intensity of interest, past voting behavior and interest, and whether you know where your voting place is.
"We've discovered that if we ask a set of more indirect questions, we can better predict who is or is not likely to vote," Frank Newport, editor in chief of the Gallup Poll, has said.
But there is reason to suspect those criteria are outdated, especially in an election where both sides say the intensity level is much higher than four years ago and get-out-the-vote organizations are considerably better than ever -- few people on Nov. 2 will be in the dark on where the voting polls are.
10042. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:30:06 PM
"A formula that made sense years ago may not recognize all the changes in society," notes Mr. Hart. "It gives more credence to past behavior and too little to current interest."
10043. thoughtful - 9/16/2004 6:30:45 PM
joe biden was on imus this a.m. and charles mccord told imus he's totally mad at biden for not running for the presidency.
he easily topped kerry's appearance on the show. Biden spelled out what the bushies aren't doing in iraq, what they need to be doing in iraq, and what he learned when he went there simply by listening to the military guys on the ground as to what has been working, what hasn't, and what they need to get the job done. He said the military guys showed him charts of how in areas where they have made significant improvement in peoples lives like getting rid of the trash and the 2' of sewage running through the streets, they aren't getting shot at....where they haven't, they're still getting shot at. They know what works, but they can't implement it because they are so understaffed and underfunded.
Biden said they need to train a LOT more iraqis to be policemen and even this far into it, they have not fully trained even ONE iraqi! He said he voted to authorize their spending billions of dollars in iraq...what would easily be the largest jobs program ever...get these people off the streets and gainfully employed improving their lives and the lives of their families...and instead the money is just sitting there. The administration and management of this venture is so poor that nothing that needs to happen is happening.
biden said he voted to authorize the pres for war, but had he known then what he knows now, he never would have....not from the yes/no WMD pov, but because he would never have guessed that the bushies would run such a totally incompetent operation. They have flubbed the operation in just about every way possible.
Let's hope biden talks to kerry and gets him up to snuff on this stuff. it's very powerful.
10044. thoughtful - 9/16/2004 6:30:58 PM
toys!
10045. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:34:40 PM
"For low-turnout elections those old models work well," suggests Bill McInturff, a Republican, and the other WSJ/NBC News pollster. "But in today's presidential election those models tend to [tilt to] a little older, a little more white, a little more affluent and a little more Republican voters. They may miss some of the extraordinary activity going on in African-American and Latino communities."
The registered-likely voters dichotomy also is evident in some of Gallup's state surveys including last week's Ohio results." Among registered voters in the Buckeye State, Bush-Cheney had a 48%-to- 47% edge, a dead heat. Among likely voters, however, this poll had the Republicans up 52%-44%; that garnered all the attention, followed by a spate of stories suggesting this key battleground state was moving to the president.
Curiously, the Gallup poll in the similar state of Pennsylvania at the same time showed a virtually even race among both registered and likely voters. And occasionally, the screen favors the Democrats; a Marist survey this week of New York state showed Sen. Kerry 11 points ahead among likely voters, but only seven points ahead among registered voters.
But most of the time the screen for likely voters tilts Republican. In 2000, Gallup's election eve survey showed George Bush ahead by two points among its likely voters; he trailed Al Gore by a point among registered voters, very close to the final outcome.
In 2000, the next to last WSJ/NBC poll before the election showed Republicans doing three points better among likely voters than registered voters. The election eve survey showed Bush up three points among likely voters, but failed to tally registered voters and didn't predict Al Gore's victory in the popular vote.
10046. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 6:34:42 PM
If it hadn't been for Chappaquiddick, Kennedy might well have been President.
10047. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:34:51 PM
The Wall Street Journal and NBC News have settled on one question to screen likely turnout. Registered voters are asked their interest level in the election on a scale of 1-10, and those that respond 9 or 10 are considered likely voters.
Both camps expect an increase in the 105 million Americans who voted last time; the Bush camp looks for about 111-112 million while the Kerry campaign projects 116-118 million; nobody can be sure exactly who those additional voters might be.
The probable outlook: Polls will vary and conflict if this race remains tight. Also, poll watchers must remember that the best survey has a three or four-point margin of error; that means if it shows the race even, one or the other candidate actually could be up by a half-dozen. Here's a final guide: if almost all the election eve polls show one candidate up four or five points or more, take it to the bank. But if most show the race within a couple of points, plan on staying up late election night.
For detail on how the Gallup Poll is the most fucked up outlier of the 2004 race see This statistical analyis and history of all major polls this year.
And Teixeira's exchange with Frank Newport of Gallup
10048. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:35:55 PM
Sorry I probably should have done the WSJ post in Lies.but it is too TRUE
10049. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:37:12 PM
toys
10050. jexster - 9/16/2004 6:38:03 PM
and IraQ, thanks to GWB is FUBAR, thoughtful
10051. thoughtful - 9/16/2004 6:53:46 PM
No transcript that I can find, but here's a quote:
September 17, 2004
Imus: "If you knew what you know now, would you have voted to authorize the President to go to war?"
Senator Joe Biden: "If I had known how incompetent they would be, no one could have imagined they would be this incompetent. If I had know that, I would have never given this man the authority. Never given this man the authority."
10052. OhioSTOPAS - 9/16/2004 7:19:51 PM
In Message # 10028, "concerned" posts a picture that purports to show a Kerry-supporting union member (i.e., according to the official right-wing talk radio glossary, a "thug") ripping up a Bush-Cheney sign belonging to Bush supporter Phil Parlock. This picture was posted on Drudge, and this bad behavior was a main topic on Columbus talk radio (namely, Rush/Hannity wannabe Glenn Beck) this morning.
Well, here's more about the unfortunate Mr. Parlock.
It seems the poor Mr. P gets roughed up by Democrat thugs every election year! What a coincidence. Yes, what a coincidence. I guess it's a case of bad things happening to good Freeple.
10053. OhioSTOPAS - 9/16/2004 7:49:38 PM
"Burning of villages. Chopping off ears and limbs. These are things that John Kerry has admitted to. Aren't these things worse than missing a physical?"
An exact quote (as best I can remember it) from Rush Limbaugh, just now (actually, just an hour ago, since Columbus gets the lying blowhard on an hour delay).
Kerry, of course, did not chop off anything, nor did he say that he did (or, for that matter, that he ever even personally witnessed such a thing). What a lying bastard Limbaugh is.
And do the Republicans really want to go down the road of arguing that, because of the bad things people have to do in war (such as burning an UNOCCUPIED dwelling), serving in Vietnam is morally inferior to avoiding service? Bring it on.
10054. thoughtful - 9/16/2004 8:43:54 PM
Wasn't rush the same guy who said the abu graib was just "boys being boys" and "frat house pranks"? and rummy saying the post-invasion rioting and looting was just "letting off steam"?
10055. judithathome - 9/16/2004 8:45:45 PM
The brother of that little girl tore up the sign himself. It's all staged. More "rightist" BS.
10056. jexster - 9/16/2004 8:49:48 PM
I LOVE the Economist (US editors)
10057. jexster - 9/16/2004 8:55:06 PM
10051...
ShitTalk!
Biden KNEW full well that Bush was lying and that Bush didn't know what the fuck he was doing in IraQ.
So did Kerry and while the latter is a matter of reported fact, the former was quite obvious to me at the time.
Biden in August of 2002 as Chairman of the Foreign Relations committee held hearings the clear purpose of which was to lay the groundwork for the very case he claims now to have just awakened to.
Pissed me off then...Pisses me now for it was clear at the time Bush started his warmongering in earnest that he could not be trusted either to tell the truth or to lead a war competently
10058. jexster - 9/16/2004 8:56:06 PM
AND THAT, unlike TD's vile deceit and revisionism, is a matter of Mote Archival Record.
10059. jexster - 9/16/2004 9:01:30 PM
Sharon Flips off the Moron, Repudiates Roadmap
The proper question is not how many world leaders want Kerry in the WH but how many hold the current pretender in utter contempt
10060. jexster - 9/16/2004 9:09:01 PM
Do As I Say
Bush lets down his Guard
By William Saletan
This week, President Bush and Sen. John Kerry addressed the annual conference of the National Guard Association. Neither man talked about Bush's service in the Guard, and the officers in attendance made clear that they wanted to hear about Iraq, not Vietnam. But one issue leads to the other. Bush's abuse of the Guard in Iraq is what makes his abuse of the Guard during Vietnam an important consideration in this election
10061. jexster - 9/16/2004 9:11:49 PM
Four years into his six-year commitment, Bush "changed his mind" and decided "he preferred to be in politics." That description doesn't come from some phony memo. It comes from retired Col. Rufus Martin, Bush's then-personnel officer, in an interview with the Washington Post. Bush got permission to go to Alabama to help a family friend run for the Senate. A Boston Globe review of Bush's Guard records confirms that he "performed no service for one six-month period in 1972 and for another period of almost three months in 1973." The Globe's investigative team, echoing investigators from other publications, reports that "no one has come forward with any credible recollection of having witnessed Bush performing guard service in Alabama or after he returned to Houston in 1973."
U.S. News & World Report notes that the "military service obligation" Bush signed in 1968 required him to attend 44 inactive-duty training drills every fiscal year for six years. He did not fulfill that requirement. Furthermore, when Bush took off for Harvard Business School in 1973, he signed a form pledging "to locate and be assigned to another Reserve forces unit or mobilization augmentation position." He never did so.
GWB lied in 1968 and he is still lying today...
When did you take it up TD?
10062. jexster - 9/16/2004 9:25:50 PM
Bush Fails Again
UN Rejects Tighter Inspection of IraNIAN Nuclear Program
That's IraN TD, not IraQ
Maybe this ROADMAP will help
10063. judithathome - 9/16/2004 9:36:33 PM
Judge Orders Release of ALL Bush Guard Records
A federal judge has ordered the Pentagon to find and make public by next week any unreleased files about President Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service to resolve a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by The Associated Press.
U.S. District Judge Harold Baer Jr. handed down the order late Wednesday in New York. The AP lawsuit already has led to the disclosure of previously unreleased flight logs from Bush's days piloting F-102A fighters and other jets.
Pentagon officials told Baer they plan to have their search complete by Monday. Baer ordered the Pentagon to hand over the records to the AP by Sept. 24 and provide a written statement by Sept. 29 detailing the search for more records.
10064. Magoseph - 9/16/2004 9:44:28 PM
Con, my post was just a reflexion of the absurdities of today, such as Bush holding Clinton responsible for the deficit he has managed to run up.
10065. judithathome - 9/16/2004 9:45:34 PM
Oh, Mags, didn't you know? Clinton is even responsible for all these hurricanes.
10066. jexster - 9/16/2004 9:46:10 PM
Bush Has Bungled WOT - Senior CIA Officer
WASHINGTON - A senior CIA (news - web sites) officer says bad decisions, understaffing and infighting among intelligence agencies stifled efforts to stop Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) and his network. More than three years after the Sept. 11 attacks, the agency remains short-staffed, he says.
In an unusually critical campaign for a government employee, Mike Scheuer has spent much of the last three months publicly criticizing his agency. Most government officials wait until they retire, as former National Security Council aide Richard Clarke did.
In July, Scheuer, head of the CIA's bin Laden unit until 1999, published his best-selling book "Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror." Then, he was only identified as "Anonymous."
Last week, Scheuer sent the Senate Intelligence Committee a six-page letter accusing senior career civil servants of failing to ensure the "optimal performance" of the U.S. intelligence community and of missing opportunities to stop bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist group and prevent the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks
10067. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:04:14 PM
Drudge is the toxic waste dump for GOP lies.
10068. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:06:37 PM
With the election of George Bush, the Angry White Male has reasserted and reestablished himself as a member of the privileged underprivileged class, waking up with a fart after a half decade of hibernation.
iiibbb, are you a "white angry?"
10069. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:10:25 PM
Re. 10055 -
JAH -
Been drinking DU Kook-Aid again, I see. That's no family relation - she was assaulted by a 'Rat Union thug.
10070. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:11:31 PM
Re. 10063 -
So maybe there are no unreleased files, apparently.
10071. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:12:03 PM
Bill O'Reilly, chronic cry-baby. He's the Angry White Male's Angry White Male, master of a thousand tirades and a single throwaway look of disgust....he postures as a Lone Ranger versus "the elites," distributing his own version of frontier justice...
Sean Hannity--everything evacuating from his mouth sounds as if it were dictated by somebody else, somebody tapping the talking points right into his toy brain. Sean Hannity is an ideal mouthpiece for Fox News because he's the simulacrum of Fox News's ideal viewer: the middle-aged white man with the refillable, flip-=top head who's told what to think and repeats what he's been told in a brash voice, convinced that he thunk it up himself.
Attack Poodles
James Wolcott
10072. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:12:43 PM
C'mon, Wonk. Everybody knows that its Democrats who tote the most guns and use them the most, too. Unfortunately, on each other.
10073. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:13:02 PM
iiibbb, concerned, are you perchance fans of O'Reilly and Hannity??
10074. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:13:25 PM
No. Are you?
10075. thoughtful - 9/16/2004 10:15:42 PM
Of course, all the polls and all the votes mean squat when you have Katharine Harris redux, known as Glenda Hood, on your side.
In Florida's 2000 election mess, Katherine Harris served simultaneously as Florida's secretary of state and as co-chairwoman of the state's Bush-Cheney campaign committee. In her official capacity, she repeatedly took actions that favored the campaign. This year has turned out to be more of the same. When Gov. Jeb Bush appointed Ms. Hood as secretary of state, he chose someone with a history of partisanship, as a Republican officeholder and as a Bush-Cheney elector in 2000. Now Ms. Hood's politics appear to be influencing her election duties.
She recently conducted a highly suspect voting-roll purge of felons. The voters who were to be taken off the list included more than 22,000 African-Americans, who generally vote heavily Democratic, but just 61 Hispanics, who tend to favor Republicans in Florida. She was forced to scrap the list.
In last month's primary, some people without photo identification were turned away without being told that they could vote if they signed affidavits affirming their identities. After the same thing happened in South Dakota this year, the Board of Elections there told every polling place to post signs advising people of their rights. Ms. Hood's office insists that voters need not be told of the affidavit option. Voter ID is often a partisan issue because poor people and members of other groups that are less likely to have identification often vote Democratic.
Most recently, Ms. Hood has played a suspect role in helping Mr. Nader get on Florida's ballot, where he would be likely to weaken John Kerry. A court has ruled against Mr. Nader's claim to have met the requirements to be on the ballot.
10076. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:15:58 PM
If Democrats would only learn how to do a half decent job of obeying our criminal statutes, we wouldn't have a firearms problem.
10077. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:17:34 PM
Not hardly. I prefer Koppel, Lehrer, Brokaw and Rather and, of course, my fellow Louisanian, James Carville.
10078. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:17:42 PM
I can state with confidence that nobody on the Mote owns fewer operable firearms than I do. Unless you count a BB gun, that is.
10079. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:18:46 PM
Re. 10077 -
Rather? So you're into partisan forgery, slander and libel, then.
10080. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:19:58 PM
Only girlymen Democrats own firearms.
10081. judithathome - 9/16/2004 10:24:50 PM
Concerned...go to this link and read the truth starting at "Coinkydinks". Don't miss the pictures, which are worth a thousand words.
Coinkydinks
There's this guy. He's a Republican. Amazingly, for the past three presidential elections he's managed to convince reporters that he's gotten attacked and gotten his signs stolen and destroyed. What are the odds?
10082. judithathome - 9/16/2004 10:27:24 PM
can state with confidence that nobody on the Mote owns fewer operable firearms than I do. Unless you count a BB gun, that is.
I don't own any guns at all, not even toys. The closest thing to a gun I have is a Bic lighter with a trigger and long nozzle for lighting candles.
10083. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:28:00 PM
Fox's Special Report--is so claustrophobically right-wing that anyone who appears regularly on the panel contracts a slow-progressing case of Stockholm Syndrome. Juan Williams and Mara Liasson, for example.
Poor Juan, he begins to wobble, unsure of himself, trapped in enemy territory and suffering Hamlet indecision. "The war was a bad idea--but we can't pull out, can we?--drilling in Alaska--it's gotta be bad for the caribou or whatever's up there--but these conservatives make a lotta sense--I can't see me driving a solar car anytime soon--oh God now they're going to bring up partial birth abortion--I guess I'm against that but I'm also for a woman's right to choose--I wish the other guys would stop glaring--Brit looks like he's about to snap at me again, and Fred--Fred's snickering again--Fred's always snickering at me!--someday I'm going to stuff those snickers back down his throat!"
Then, his eardrums beating from the pressure of the voices inside his head that won't leave him alone, Juan often concedes the argument but shakes his head to show he's not fully convinced, his way of salvaging some scrap of dignity...
Attack Poodles
James Wolcott
10084. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:28:14 PM
What's the link to - a porn site? My company firewall will not connect to it. Why are you always so eager to believe fact free innuendo and smears, anyway, JAH?
10085. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:30:17 PM
Michael Savage--he brought nothing to the broadcast table except garlic breath.
Attack Poodles
10086. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:31:31 PM
Ann Coulter--appears frequently enough on MSNBC to warrant her own dressing room and bikini waxer.
Attack Poodles
10087. wonkers2 - 9/16/2004 10:33:34 PM
Arnold Schwarzenegger--crowd-pleasing, self-parodying cyborg (who in his bodybuilding prime resembled, as Clive James immortally observed, a fistfull of walnuts stuffed in a condom)...
Attack Poodles
10088. concerned - 9/16/2004 10:34:16 PM
I can probably get a way carrying a Republican placard in a Democrat crowd without being attacked - but only because I'm 6' 6" 265 with no extra fat.
10089. judithathome - 9/16/2004 10:40:33 PM
What's the link to - a porn site?
No, it is a link to the blog called Eschaton by Atrios. I don't believe your worksite has a firewall against the truth; I think you are just saying that because you don't want to admit I was right. Not that you'd believe it...your head is too full of right wing BS for any truth to squeeze its way inside.
Those people are scam artists. The picture from Drudge shows a young man standing next to the fraud daddy, with part of the torn sign in his hands, and in another picture there ther same young man is in a group photo with his nine brothers and sisters and their fraud daddy.
So don't tell me I'm the one believeing innuendo and lies...you are just like other Republicans in that regard, accusing people of doing the very thing you are doing.
10090. jexster - 9/16/2004 11:01:33 PM
Words and excuses meet incompetence, chaos and death
That's what this election is about.
Couldn't have said it better myself...
Why, as a matter of fact and come to think of it, I DID say it myself...last August
10091. Magoseph - 9/17/2004 12:15:26 AM
Here is the link that didn't work on your computer, Con:
Serial Republican Victim complains for the THIRD straight presidential election of being assaulted and has his family assist.
10092. Magoseph - 9/17/2004 12:24:17 AM
C'mon, Wonk. Everybody knows that its Democrats who tote the most guns and use them the most, too. Unfortunately, on each other.
If Democrats would only learn how to do a half decent job of obeying our criminal statutes, we wouldn't have a firearms problem.
Look, Con, everybody knows everybody here. You don't have to say that Democrats are the ones who are killing each other. You should say what you mean--the Blacks have all the guns and they are killing each other in the cities.
The fact is, however, the real gun-worshippers are the rednecks in the country. The people in the cities carry guns as a necessity. The rednecks are gun-lovers, dog-lovers, horse-lovers, and women haters.
10093. clydefo - 9/17/2004 12:41:31 AM
Florida SC has put Nader on the ballot (CNN), not that it matters much in the new age of electronically rigged elections.
10094. thoughtful - 9/17/2004 12:45:56 AM
hey wait a minute.
we have guns
we don't hate women
in fact, i view my little handy dandy snub-nose .38 as a woman's best friend...my equalizer and I have to admit, i'm pretty good with the darned thing.
tho' not as good as hubby. he's excellent with guns. from hunting squirrels as a boy to varsity rifle team in university right through his ROTC/army days (which he served during the vietnam war and did not shirk his duties or pull strings or go awol) and 16 years as a police special. Cool eye and steady hand, that one.
10095. concerned - 9/17/2004 1:26:39 AM
Re. 10089 -
Whether it's a porn site or something that calls itself 'eschaton', the company firewall wouldn't link to it, & that's the truth, whether you're allergic to it or not, JAH. Unlike you, apparently, I work for a living, and tried to use your link from work. I'm at work at this moment, for that matter.
Such links are blocked by this firewall usually because the these sites have questionable content.
10096. concerned - 9/17/2004 1:28:37 AM
Re. 10092 -
Magoseph - are you saying blacks don't qualify as real Democrats or what?
So now I know you despise 'rednecks' and don't think much of blacks either.
10097. jexster - 9/17/2004 1:28:57 AM
W. Stands for "Weak"
Ever wonder why the president's steely-eyed determination(!) to pre-emptively attack challenges to America doesn't extend to non-defense issues?
Looks like Tony Blair has wondered that too, as reflected in a very clever speech on global climate change that uses the same calculus of risk applied to the decision to invade Iraq.
He doesn't mention Bush by name, but makes a pretty good indirect case that W. is a weasely, flip-flopping defeatist who's made the U.S. the France of environmental policy.
10098. jexster - 9/17/2004 1:30:30 AM
Rednecks bother me too TD..
I am happy you're black
10099. concerned - 9/17/2004 1:35:25 AM
I don't know where Magoseph's 'worshipping guns' comment comes from, particularly since two of the countries that have the highest gun ownership rates, Switzerland and Israel, have firearms crime rates that are a minor fraction of the US's.
10100. arkymalarky - 9/17/2004 1:36:09 AM
If Democrats would only learn how to do a half decent job of obeying our criminal statutes, we wouldn't have a firearms problem.
Hahaha! You mean if we'd only learn how to get our butts out of trouble when we violate them like our president.
Wait. That takes lots of money and power and influence.
Never mind.
10101. concerned - 9/17/2004 1:36:21 AM
I'm part Black Irish, anyway, and that is likely part Moorish which is African.
10102. jexster - 9/17/2004 1:36:57 AM
Bush on Iraq: Who you gonna believe? Me, or your lyin' eyes?
Heed Allawi, Bush urges US
Not the US National Intelligence Estimate, not the Royal British institute, not virtually everyone who knows anything about IraQ, an ex-Baathist assassin
10103. jexster - 9/17/2004 1:38:04 AM
Black Irish.
Your neck red?
10104. arkymalarky - 9/17/2004 1:39:55 AM
Gun control is irrelevant in this election. Bush's position on the ban is the same as Kerry's.
10105. thoughtful - 9/17/2004 1:41:44 AM
10100...arky! Good one!
10106. arkymalarky - 9/17/2004 1:43:15 AM
The most important issues are the ones Bush has the most control over. That people aren't scared to death to cast a vote for him based on those is stunning to me. Go from four years ago to now and following the same trajectory take yourself forward four years.
Unreal that most people would even consider it. Kerry couldn't do that much damage in four years, even if he doesn't set the world on fire with his policies.
10107. arkymalarky - 9/17/2004 1:44:07 AM
Thanks Thoughtful!
10108. clydefo - 9/17/2004 2:33:00 AM
It was good to see former weapons inspector Scott Ritter on Paula Zhan's show. I was afraid they had disappeared him. One of the few that, before the war, accurately predicted that there would be no WMD in Iraq. He said that the current top weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, is preparing a Bush whitewash in his upcoming report. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/17/politics/17intel.html.
Ritter has consistently called it right. I hope he is wrong in his other pre-war prediction that the US will leave Iraq tail between legs.
10109. jexster - 9/17/2004 3:00:40 AM
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon (news - web sites) on Friday released {STILL} more documents on President Bush (news - web sites)'s Vietnam-era Air National Guard Service, including a letter from his then-congressman father George Bush (news - web sites) thanking a general for "taking interest in a brand new Air Force trainee."
That Child of Privilege, That Fortunate Son
10110. jexster - 9/17/2004 3:07:33 AM
Damn Clyde TD said he was a paid agent of Saddam
Ritter is not right this time...
Helicopter skids is more likely that is the hard truth about IraQ..
That is also the Regis Debray scenario and that is what is unfolding before our lying eyes.
This idiot son of privilege, this fortunate son.
10111. jexster - 9/17/2004 3:10:12 AM
Oh no it isn't irrelevant Arky, that's the SOP of the Politics of Putrescence...
The Bush "compassionate conservative" shuck n jive....
This is the same Bush who said Kerry served galantly while paying those Charles "Dirty Tricks" Colson hacks to say Kerry was a coward and a liar who injured himself to get out of Vietnam
10112. jexster - 9/17/2004 3:10:51 AM
REMEMBER ARKY...no sane person of integrity can believe ANYTHING GWB says
10113. jexster - 9/17/2004 3:15:47 AM
I mean look at all the embarrassment, the humiliations poor TD has suffered over the past four years!
Don't be concerned with GWB's slogans and spin, lest you suffer the same, sad fate
10114. jexster - 9/17/2004 3:30:42 AM
It started on DAY 1 of the Residency with China when Bush's hot talk met the real world walk..I am speaking of course of the Shame of the Plane..
Then we moved quickly to Enron...moved quickly away when it became clear that Enron, under cover of B/C cronyism, had in fact rigged CALI electricity markets
And who can forget National Missle Defense....it still doesn't work..four years, billions, and it still doesn't work
Missile Defense: Mission Unaccomplished
When will Bush stop throwing billions at a failing project?
Of course, it is all the fault of the French with an assist from the Hun
Forget Bush, why would any sane person of integrity when it comes to TD, not do what I do...
Chuckle
10115. jexster - 9/17/2004 3:44:39 AM
It's curious that on the campaign trail George W. Bush has boasted of many accomplishments, whether real or imaginary, but the missile-defense program has almost never been among them. This is no small point. Bush pushed missile defense as a major issue in the 2000 election. From the start of his presidency, he made it one of his top priorities. He revoked the 1972 Anti-Ballistic-Missile Treaty in order to pursue the program at full throttle. He tripled its budget ($10.7 billion this year alone, more than twice as much as for any other weapon system). He demanded that the Pentagon start fielding the system by the fall of 2004—that is, before the coming election—and indeed, last July, the first antimissile missile was lowered into its silo, a second is now in place, and eight more are scheduled to follow in the next few weeks.
10116. jexster - 9/17/2004 4:10:58 AM
Ruy Teixeira has Deconstructed the Gallup Poll that TD's been yapping about (THAT last, considering his 4 year track record, the best news the Kerry campaign has had all year!)
September 17, 2004
Gallup Strikes Again!
Here are Bush's leads in the three national polls released before Gallup's current poll (no RV data available for DCorps and Harris; Pew and Harris matchups include Nader):
Democracy Corps, September 12-14 RVs: +1
Pew Research Center, September 11-14 RVs: tied
Harris Interactive: September 9-13 LVs: -1
Looks like a tie ball game, right? But according to the Gallup poll conducted September 13-15 and released today, Bush is up......13???
Let's just say I'm just a wee bit skeptical of this one. First, Gallup's poll only includes one day (the 15th) these three other polls do not, so it can't be Gallup's survey dates that explain the big Bush lead.
Second, this 13 point lead is an LV figure and, as I've repeatedly emphasized, Gallup's LV screening procedure produces completely untrustworthy measures of voter sentiment this far in advance of the election. Here is a summary of the case against Gallup's LV data:
....
Throwing out the Gallup LV data, then, let's move on to their RV result: an 8 point Bush lead. Obviously pretty far off the results of the other contemporaneous polls summarized above....
But then there's this: the Gallup internals show Kerry with a 7 point lead among independent RVs. Huh? Kerry's losing by 8 points overall, yet leading among independents by 7. How is that possible? Only if there are substantially more Republicans than Democrats in the sample....
10117. concerned - 9/19/2004 12:30:55 AM
Re. 10103 -
Not as red as yours, at any rate.
10118. concerned - 9/19/2004 1:16:13 AM
Question: “HOW DO YOU ASK A MAN TO BE THE LAST MAN TO DIE?”
Answer: Mr. Rather, will you be so kind as to fall on your sword for Kerry regarding Memogate?
10119. judithathome - 9/19/2004 3:55:05 AM
Unlike you, apparently, I work for a living,
Unlike you, apparently, I am old enough to be retired.
10120. judithathome - 9/19/2004 4:37:25 AM
Blogger Who Faulted CBS Documents Is Conservative Activist
...Operating as "Buckhead," which is also the name of an upscale Atlanta neighborhood, MacDougald wrote that the memos that CBS' "60 Minutes" presented on Sept. 8 as being written in the early 1970s by the late Lt. Col Jerry B. Killian were "in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman."
"The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers," MacDougald wrote on the freerepublic website. "They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's. Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used monospaced fonts.
"I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old. This should be pursued aggressively."
The Sept. 8 late-night posting — written less than four hours after the CBS report was aired — resulted in a flurry of sympathetic testimonials from fellow bloggers, spreading within hours to other sites. The next day, major newspapers such as The Times and the Washington Post began consulting forensic experts and reporting stories that raised similar questions.
Wow. Four hours. And the documents were only flashed on the screen for about 30 seconds each, if that long. This guy certainly has an eagle eye and very specific knowledge of old typewriters and their capabilities. And evidently, of how to forge documents.
Wonder how he came by all this expertise?
10121. judithathome - 9/19/2004 4:41:54 AM
Oh, I hope you read to the very end of that articel where you will see this little gem:
"When he's not absorbed with work, I think he spends the rest of his life in the wee hours of the morning on freerepublic," Hogue added. "And that's the outlet through which he shares his concerns and insights, and so rather than being a matter of conspiracy, it's just him doing what he does."
This is probably where Concerned gets his ideas.
10122. judithathome - 9/19/2004 9:54:24 AM
Well, I just learned CBS put the documents up on their website pretty swiftly so I stand corrected on the 10 seconds comment. Guess I'm too used to CNN which takes half a day to get stuff up.
10123. jexster - 9/19/2004 2:52:14 PM
Who are you gonna believe TD, GWB or your lyin eyes?
This race is coming down to IraQ...
Lies have Consequences
Allah be praised!
WMD Investigation by Once-Confident Expert Reveals 'Less than Little' Evidence
"In the tense months before war in Iraq, Charles Duelfer was confident. 'Of course [Saddam] is developing his weapons of mass destruction.' Now the results of a Duelfer-led investigation are telling a very different tale... After 16 months of trying, what [Duelfer's] teams have found is less than little. In fact, the only unconventional weapon turned up in Iraq wasn't turned up by the Americans at all, but by the other side, Iraq's shadowy resistance. In May, in an incident causing no serious injuries, insurgent fighters in Baghdad rigged an old artillery shell as a roadside bomb, apparently unaware it was loaded with sarin nerve agent.
Otherwise, two or three stray shells have been discovered with traces of degraded agent - far short of the 100-500 tons of usable chemical weapons that Colin Powell warned of on Feb. 5, 2003."
Joe Klein today in Time: "Scott McClellan is beginning to sound like Baghdad Bob."
10124. jexster - 9/19/2004 3:18:45 PM
Grieving Mother of Soldier Killed in Iraq Arrested to Protect Laura Bush from 'Unpleasantness'
"A woman wearing a T-shirt with the words 'President Bush You Killed My Son' and a picture of a soldier killed in Iraq was detained [SHE WAS ARRESTED!] Thursday after she interrupted a campaign speech by first lady Laura Bush. Police escorted Sue Niederer, of Hopewell, N.J., from a rally at a firehouse after she demanded to know why her son, Army 1st Lt. Seth Dvorin, 24, was killed in Iraq. Dvorin died in February while trying to disarm a bomb. As shouts of 'Four More Years' subsided, Niederer, standing in the middle of a crowd of some 700, continued to shout about the killing of her son. Local police escorted her from the event, handcuffed her and put her in the back of a police van. Niederer was later charged with defiant trespass and released. "
10125. robertjayb - 9/19/2004 3:39:47 PM
Once upon s time when this was a free country such women were honored as Gold Star Mothers.
10126. jexster - 9/19/2004 5:22:25 PM
10127. jexster - 9/19/2004 5:50:23 PM
Yes, Robert, funny how Mo Dowd used that same line...
You don't live in Tejas, do ya?...probably somewhere around Hoboken
Take a close look"
60 second TV spot
"My name is Sue Niederer and this message is for George W. Bush. Take a close look at this soldier Mr. Bush. He was a lieutenant in the US Army. Unlike you, he chose to serve his country bravely in time of war. On February 3rd he was needlessly killed in combat in Iraq. Take a close look at this face, Mr. Bush… this is the price of your foolish adventure in Iraq. His name was Seth Dvorin, and he was my son."
Had it with George W. Bush?
Help sponsor a message like this one.
10128. jayackroyd - 9/19/2004 6:00:05 PM
Jex--
Dontcha think that some of this traffic belongs in Lies? That thread has stayed active, with multiple participants, so I think it's worked out. People who want to see your links can see them there, and this thread can be used for broader commentary.
10129. jexster - 9/19/2004 6:06:53 PM
No this is especially timely inasmuch as
a) it is directly about the election
b) responsive to Robert's
and
c) provides background to Mo Dowd's column this morning...
We've already met Mrs. Niederer's her dead son Seth in Lies so I will not do that one here except to say that he married his Rutgers college sweetheart, Kelly Harris, a week before his Sept. 2 deployment.
10130. jexster - 9/19/2004 6:31:25 PM
In my haste I neglected to reflect upon 10126 which is clearly beyond the resident Busheviks and belongs in Lies where the intelligent and the pure meet to discuss the disaster-in-process that is GWB, that son of privilege, that cowardly fortunate son
I just love the way the voice over spits out that line...
TWICE
10131. jexster - 9/20/2004 6:53:05 AM
ROME (Reuters) - Britain's ambassador to Italy has called President Bush (news - web sites) "the best recruiting sergeant" for al Qaeda, Italian media reported Monday
10132. concerned - 9/20/2004 7:25:39 AM
Witless & Wizdum from Senator Gigolo:
"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- John F. Kerry
10133. concerned - 9/20/2004 7:27:10 AM
Re. 10035 -
'Convincingly' doesn't cut it. It has to be true, and most of Kitty Kelly's 'dirt' on the Bushes has been discredited.
10134. Wombat - 9/20/2004 7:41:32 AM
Today's New York Times reviews the gaps and errors in George W. Bush's fulfillment of his National Guard service obligation. It is a good piece, the kind that one expects from the New York Times. Too bad most of the story was published in Salon weeks ago.
It amazes me that today's National Guard can give any credence to what this slacker of a president tells them.
10135. Wombat - 9/20/2004 7:44:48 AM
Equally amazing is Concerned's new-found skepticism on revelations of presidential peccadillos by dubious sources.
10136. judithathome - 9/20/2004 7:47:45 AM
It amazes me that today's National Guard can give any credence to what this slacker of a president tells them.
It amazes me that anyone can give credence to what he says. Concerned quotes a muffed remark by Kerry above but he blithely disregards about a thousand of mangled remarks made by Bush over the years. Books full of 'em and he can only cite Kerry's little slip of the tongue.
10137. concerned - 9/20/2004 7:51:55 AM
No slacker George W. Bush, and any at least semi-knowledgable person well knows that.
GWB applied for F-102 service in Vietnam but was turned down
Of the four pilots I spoke to who flew with Bush in the Texas days, Fred Bradley knew him best. They had met before going off to the year-long ordeal of pilot school, and entered the 111th at about the same time. Both were junior lieutenants without a lot of flying experience. But the inexperience didn't prevent Bush — along with Bradley — from going to their squadron leaders to see if they could get into a program called "Palace Alert." "There were four of us lieutenants at the time, and we were all fairly close. Two of them had more flight time than the president and me, said Bradley." All four volunteered for Vietnam (Bradley doesn't remember whether he and Bush actually signed paperwork, but he specifically remembers both Bush and himself trying to get into the Palace Alert Vietnam program.) Bush and Bradley were turned away, and the two more senior pilots went to Vietnam.
10138. jexster - 9/20/2004 7:52:30 AM
Ruy Teixeira, quoted approvingly in the WSJ makes the case that Gallup and CBS polls show race tied...
That won't be for long..Kerry's delivering a major IraQ speech in 15 minutes
Live on CNN
10139. concerned - 9/20/2004 7:53:43 AM
JAH -
Here's another Sen. Gigolo goof for your edification:
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
10140. concerned - 9/20/2004 7:55:55 AM
JAH -
You're easily amazed, and by all the wrong things, I might add.
10141. jexster - 9/20/2004 7:58:47 AM
The British Ambassador also said that Al Qaeda wants Bush elected
He said it in confidence, in the confidence of a meeting with his Berlusconi Proto fascist buds!!!
And is it any wonder with such "INCOMPETENCE"?
Those are McCain's words now too!
Free societies are hopeful societies. And free societies will be allies against these hateful few who have no conscience, who kill at the whim of a hat."—Washington, D.C., Sept. 17, 2004
10142. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:00:09 AM
Still how can the Capon In Chief EVER top this..
and he won't have much longer to try...
"Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB/GYN's aren't able to practice their love with women all across the country."—Sept. 6, 2004, Poplar Bluff, Mo.
10143. concerned - 9/20/2004 8:00:36 AM
Ex-pilot says Bush put in for Vietnam
Bush volunteered for combat, was rejected, ex-guardsman says
According to Campenni, Bush inquired about participating in a volunteer program called Palace Alert that used Air National Guard pilots flying in the F-102 Delta Dagger interceptor jet in Vietnam.
The Air Guard advised Bush he did not have the desired 500 hours of flight time as a pilot to qualify for Palace Alert duty, and, in any event, the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.
Here we have two unimpeachable sources saying that George W. Bush tried to serve in Vietnam. Guess all you pinheads calling GWB a slacker are fucked.
10144. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:01:52 AM
That son of privilege that fortunate son...
The first of what will be the knockout sequence of blows is now on CNN
10145. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:02:56 AM
The TANG never went to Vietnam TD...but you keep talking about Vietnam because THAT is what Bush finally has volunteered for in IraQ...
10146. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:03:31 AM
He was grounded because he was high..someone should have grounded him four years ago
10147. concerned - 9/20/2004 8:04:42 AM
Jexster-
You're just full of lies today, aren't you?
10148. Wombat - 9/20/2004 8:08:05 AM
Guess you are a "centrist" hack. If Bush had really wanted to serve in Vietnam, there were many avenues he could have taken instead of the National Guard. For example, he could have joined the Air Force.
Setting aside how Bush got into the Guard in the first place, the mystery is how he went from a well-thought-of pilot to someone who blew off his final year of service, actively avoided his obligations, and left a suspiciously incomplete paper trail. Care to speculate, Concerned?
10149. concerned - 9/20/2004 8:08:44 AM
Btw, how did Kerry get out of serving almost eight months of a one year tour of duty in Vietnam? He appears to have been AWOL longer than Lefties are accusing GWB of.
10150. Wombat - 9/20/2004 8:12:42 AM
If you get three Purple Hearts, you could choose your assignment. Bear in mind as well that Kerry was in his second tour of duty in the Navy.
Perhaps Bush thought that winning the golden beer keg three times entitled him to blow off his remaining time in the Guard.
10151. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:14:03 AM
Oh Shadenfreude Oh Shadenfreude
Major combat operations in Iraq have now ended. The US and its Allies have prevailed
The rats are certainly scurrying about on the decks of the Sinking Ship Bush..
Yesterday...McCain called him incompetent and the rabidly pro-War WaPo editorial page said...
Yet Mr. Bush, who spent the week campaigning for reelection, has offered scant acknowledgment of the quandary he faces or of the worsening state of a mission that has dominated more than half of his first term. His description of Iraq is bland to the point of dishonesty: "Despite ongoing acts of violence," he repeated Friday, "that country has a strong prime minister, they've got a national council and they are going to have elections in January of 2005." Not only has Mr. Bush not said how, or whether, he intends to respond to the worsening situation; he doesn't really admit it exists.
This duck-and-cover strategy may have its political advantages, but it is also deeply irresponsible and potentially dangerous
What do they expect of a policy made like all major policies in the Bush Regime...out of spun ideology not fact?
10152. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:15:33 AM
Btw, how did Kerry get out of serving almost eight months of a one year tour of duty in Vietnam? He appears to have been AWOL longer than Lefties are accusing GWB of.
Idiot..
Three purple heart got him out of his FIRST tour of duty
His SECOND tour of duty in theater was as aide to the Admiral in charge of the squadron off Vietnam
10153. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:15:45 AM
It appears NOT
10154. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:17:15 AM
10155. concerned - 9/20/2004 8:22:40 AM
I'd speculate that GWB knew that his best chance to serve in Vietnam was to do exactly what he did rather than to foolishly follow what you suggested which would have required him to switch services and go through a complete retraining program for, say, the F-15.
Apparently, you just never thought this situation through.
You also wouldn't have posed your question if you were willing to acknowledge that the US was winding down its involvement in Vietnam by 1973.
10156. concerned - 9/20/2004 8:24:16 AM
Three purple hearts from self-inflicted wounds got Kerry out of Vietnam early?
Well, there's your motive.
10157. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:27:44 AM
We Get By With a Little Help from Bush's Friends
Isn't this great TD!!
10158. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:28:46 AM
That's the ScuzBoat story TD..or so I am told
10159. Wombat - 9/20/2004 8:29:22 AM
Concerned:
You are--of course--deliberately misunderstanding. Rather than join the Guard in the first place (in 1968, when the war that Bush supported was in full swing), Bush could have joined the Air Force. He chose not to.
Ah, your newfound skepticism for unsourced innuendo has disappeared again.
10160. concerned - 9/20/2004 8:35:31 AM
Re. 10159 -
Kerry himself tried to join the National Guard but was turned down before he joined the Navy to avoid being drafted into a more onerous service in Vietham. You've trapped yourself into effectively calling Kerry a 'slacker', too.
You LW dimwits are so easy.
10161. alistairconnor - 9/20/2004 8:49:56 AM
All four volunteered for Vietnam (Bradley doesn't remember whether he and Bush actually signed paperwork [how extraordinarily convenient!]
Bush and Bradley were turned away, and the two more senior pilots went to Vietnam.
The Air Guard advised Bush he did not have the desired 500 hours of flight time as a pilot to qualify for Palace Alert duty, and, in any event, the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.
Two unimpeachable sources who flat-out contradict each other.
And no paper trail...
10162. Wombat - 9/20/2004 8:52:36 AM
All that shows is that Kerry lacked Bush family influence, which permitted him to be jumped over 1,000 applicants into a cushy unit. Kerry instead joined the Navy. Remember, however, that Kerry was not gung-ho on the war. He carried out his obligation and served bravely when required.
Bush supported the war, but actively avoided it. He could not even bring himself to complete his less-than-onerous service. A true moral coward: someone who is unable to own up to his responsibilities (a trait that continues to this day), and expects others to pick up after his messes.
10163. concerned - 9/20/2004 9:19:02 AM
How can you say that GWB did not complete his service when he racked up over the required 50 ANG service points for each of six years (to wit: 253 points 1968/69 , 340 in 1969/70, 137 in 1970/71, 112 in 1971/72, 56 in 1972/73 and 56 in 1973/74) required to fulfill his ANG obligation?
10164. jexster - 9/20/2004 9:20:00 AM
kerry's speech is masterful....
10165. jexster - 9/20/2004 9:21:57 AM
Because there is no record that he completed his service...records that would exist if he did
Because he admitted to a Harvard Business school prof that he didn't
Because he said he didn't want to
Because numerous witnesses said he didn't
10166. concerned - 9/20/2004 9:22:18 AM
Re. 10161 -
That may well be due to the fact that at least one source which I didn't cite here claims that GWB applied on two different occasions for the 'Palace Alert' program.
Where's your 'flat out contradiction' now? Nowhere, it seems.
10167. jexster - 9/20/2004 9:22:48 AM
And because, as the Tim Russert interview makes clear, the only evidence that he did is his claim that he did
We know what weight to give Bush's claims
10168. concerned - 9/20/2004 9:24:09 AM
jexster -
I believe I once linked a copy of GWB's honorable discharge from the ANG to the Mote.
You are truly in a beyond the looking glass world when you push forged documents as real and pretend the real documents don't exist, merely to fuel your hate of GWB.
10169. jexster - 9/20/2004 9:26:37 AM
Bush 46%, Kerry 43% on the head-to-head match-up Zogby out today
10170. jexster - 9/20/2004 9:27:14 AM
That's right and so what?
Lots of people conned their way into that..and he did it because he had connections
10171. jexster - 9/20/2004 9:29:12 AM
Kevin Drum...
Andrew Sullivan is worried about George Bush's continuing denial about how badly things are going in Iraq:
We have to flush out at least Fallujah and Ramadi soon — or lose the ability to hold national elections in January (if we haven't already). And the mayhem that maneuver will unleash is not one we can easily stabilize without more troops and resources or a miracle in the capabilities of the Iraqi police and military. Before too long, a draft may become a very big topic on Capitol Hill. Big increases in military spending — over and above what we are already planning — will become necessary. What I worry about is a country that re-elects a president on the basis of denial about Iraq, and then turns on him with a vengeance when things get far worse.
A president unwilling to come to terms with reality. Re-election based on lies about future escalation. After the election an incident that forces the callup of more reserves and possibly a general draft. A massive backlash.
10172. jexster - 9/20/2004 9:42:04 AM
Joining John McCain and Andrew Sullivan
Kerry Questions Bush's Judgement on IraQ
10173. jexster - 9/20/2004 9:56:07 AM
TD for your reading pleasure
Portrait of George Bush in '72: Unanchored in Turbulent Time
By SARA RIMER - NyT
An examination of President Bush's life in 1972 yields a portrait of an entitled young man safe from combat.
That Son of Privilege, that Fortunate Son
10174. concerned - 9/20/2004 10:18:01 AM
More Sen. Gigolo bloopers:
"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
- John F. Kerry
10175. jayackroyd - 9/20/2004 10:45:19 AM
10173
Yes that was a nice summary of other people's reporting.
CBS has just conceded that the two documents were forged and that the source of the forgeries was Burkett. He has made some claim to his source that can't be verified.
10176. iiibbb - 9/20/2004 10:47:01 AM
Message # 10172
Kerry said Monday that Bush's invasion of Iraq has created a crisis that could lead to unending war and has raised questions about whether Bush's judgment is up to presidential standards. He offered his own four-point plan starting with pressing other nations for help.
_ Get more help from other nations.
_ Provide better training for Iraqi security forces.
_ Provide benefits to the Iraqi people.
_ Ensure that democratic elections can be held next year as promised.
This is a pretty vague 4-point plan.
The Republicans have accused him of staking out unclear, even contradictory, positions on Iraq. His speech was aimed at explaining his stance and drawing clear differences with Bush's leadership at a time when troubles in Iraq are mounting.
Kerry tried to turn the criticism back against the president by pointing to varying administration arguments for going to war.
"By one count, the president offered 23 different rationales for this war," Kerry said. "If his purpose was to confuse and mislead the American people, he succeeded."
Kerry said Bush's two main rationales — weapons of mass destruction and a connection between al-Qaida and the Sept. 11 attacks — have been proven false by weapons inspectors and the bipartisan commission investigating the attacks.
This was a good response by Kerry
10177. jayackroyd - 9/20/2004 10:57:10 AM
I was at the NYU speech. It was a little repetitive, but forceful in the right places, accusing Bush of not telling the truth, making the wrong choices and of incompetence. At one point he quoted one of Bush's more egregious bits of sunny optimism, and then said "Can he be serious?"
The lines were generally good, and didn't skirt the issues or exhibit fear of being accused of calling the president a liar. The thrust of the speech was to lay out the central dishonesty in the justification and conduct of the war, failures of vision (attacking Iraq rather than the terroists), failiures of planning (flowers and candy) and failures of execution. He also noted that the only people held accountable for their actions are the ones who tell the truth, referring to Shinseki, Lindsay and O'Neill.
Naturally, the media asking people what they thought said "Well, did he provide more specifics?" We've had 18 months of no specifics from the president, policy shifts on the fly and idiotic decision making, and Kerry has to provide "specifics." He did, I guess. He took the things he always says, and put them into a four point plan.
But the dominant thought I had as he suggested hiring Iraqis instead of American workers, of reforming our alliances, of spending the budgeted reconstruction money that it just may be too late. He acknowledges that by saying that it will be difficult, and will be more difficult now than it would have been five months ago, or a year ago--specifically blaming Bush policy failures for making it difficult.
10178. iiibbb - 9/20/2004 11:34:07 AM
But the dominant thought I had as he suggested hiring Iraqis instead of American workers,
The fact that iraqi jobs are being 'outsourced' doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense does it...
10179. Wombat - 9/20/2004 11:39:26 AM
Concerned has now sunk to "he received an honorable discharge, therefore he completed his service requirements." All that means is that the same people who eased Bush's way in to the Guard did the same to ease him out.
Those analyzing Bush's service points note that a number of them were credited even though they failed to fall within the exisitng regulations' parameters. Life is good when you are an irresponsible dolt with plenty of people looking out for you.
10180. Wombat - 9/20/2004 11:45:26 AM
iiibbb:
The Bush administration wants to export all aspects of the US economic system to Iraq.
10181. jexster - 9/20/2004 12:09:51 PM
That was a pipe dream that died long ago but in the process contributed significantly to the mess we are now in..there have been several excellent treatments of the subject..
For a compendium search Cole's INformed Comment
10182. jexster - 9/20/2004 12:10:44 PM
ANGRY Gays Seek to Influence Presidential Vote
No shit sherlock
10183. OhioSTOPAS - 9/20/2004 12:16:05 PM
iiibbb: In Message # 10176, you say Kerry's plans for Iraq are "pretty vague."
But what's Bush's plan?
10184. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 9/20/2004 12:20:34 PM
10185. iiibbb - 9/20/2004 12:31:52 PM
Message # 10183
If the goal is to secure independent votes, Kerry isn't doing too well if he only relies on Bush's vagueness to win. Trading uncertainty for uncertainty isn't much of a trade... the best you can expect to do is break even between the people who in times of uncertainty vote out the incumbent... while others defer to the status quo.
Kerry should want to earn votes not break even... the only way to earn votes is to provide direction.
Kerry talking about making gun control more strict (based on his voting record), while being vague about what he'd do for Iraq, and not being particularly intersting on the economy (yet), and all of my conflicting views of him as far as Vietnam goes...
Right now I lean slightly toward Kerry... but I've long said that just getting up there and ranting how much Bush sucks isn't going to do it for me... and the more he does it the less likely I am to vote for him because it makes me think he doesn't have a clue.
10186. iiibbb - 9/20/2004 12:34:44 PM
The more Kerry (and supporters of Kerry) rant about the sucktitude of Bush, the less likely I will vote for Kerry because that just shows that people are either fixated on winning power, or they also don't have a clue about how to run the country.
10187. concerned - 9/20/2004 12:39:00 PM
Re. 10179 -
Wombat -
I know that you will persist in denying reality and cannot face up to the fact that GWB earned more than the requisite service points for each year of his ANG service to receive his honorable discharge.
Sorry, Wombat, your 'case' died when the CBS News forgeries were exposed. You have nothing...nothing to back up your bogus anti-GWB ANG assertions.
But feel free to continue to hack away at that dead horse, by all means.
10188. jayackroyd - 9/20/2004 12:40:49 PM
Kerry talking about making gun control more strict
You've already said these strictures don't work. So why do you care if they are in place?
while being vague about what he'd do for Iraq
What do you want him to say? What more can he say than what he said today?
but I've long said that just getting up there and ranting how much Bush sucks isn't going to do it for me
Utter failure in policy, domestic and foreign, is not something that you'd consider strongly when casting your vote? Bush's persistent lying on the war in Iraq, Cheney's continued false conflation of Iraq with terrorism isn't an issue? The fact the McClennan just got called Baghdad Bob by a Time columnist isn't an influencing factor?
Here's Kerry's economic plan. It's as detailed and clear as these things get. And it has one other important quality--I think it represents what he'll try to do. What is Bush's plan?
10189. jayackroyd - 9/20/2004 12:44:54 PM
concerned--
the forgeries don't change the facts.
By that time, still without an Alabama unit, he had not attended a required monthly drill for almost five months, according to records released by the White House.
snip
But there are no records from the 187th indicating that Mr. Bush, in fact, appeared on those days in October and November, and more than a dozen members of the unit from that era say they never saw him. The White House said last week that there were no records from the Alabama unit because Mr. Bush was still officially part of the Texas Guard. But Mr. Hodges, the former Texas commander, said the 187th "should have a record of his drills."
NYTimes, today.
10190. jayackroyd - 9/20/2004 12:47:44 PM
By the summer of 1973, Mr. Bush had decided to go to Harvard Business School. According to documents released by the White House, he wanted an early discharge from the Guard but did not have enough service points for 1972 and 1973, since he had missed months of training. Guardsmen were required to earn 48 points each fiscal year, or four points for each weekend drill every month.
Although missed drills can be made up, regulations at the time said it had to be done within 30 days and in the same fiscal year. As the time for his early discharge neared, Mr. Bush was lacking enough points; according to records for July 1973, he attended drills on 18 days that month.
When questions arose about Mr. Bush's Guard service, the White House asked a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, Albert C. Lloyd Jr., to review his record. In a memorandum released by the White House in February, Mr. Lloyd wrote that from May 1973 through May 1974, Mr. Bush accumulated 35 training points and 15 points for being a Guard member "for a total of 56 points.'' It is not clear how Mr. Lloyd came up with 56, instead of 50. Another military document released by the White House indicates that Mr. Bush had earned only 38 points from May 1973 until his discharge that October.
A retired Army colonel, Gerald A. Lechliter, who has prepared an extensive analysis of Mr. Bush's National Guard record, described Mr. Lloyd's memorandum as "seemingly an attempt to whitewash Bush's record." Mr. Lloyd declined comment last week.
Mr. Lechliter, who describes himself as a political independent, also said that Mr. Bush was not entitled to 20 credits he received from Nov. 13, 1972, until July 19, 1973, because the service was being made up improperly.
Mr. Lechliter also said that Mr. Bush should not have been paid for these sessions. "That would appear to be a fraud," he said in an interview last week.
10191. jayackroyd - 9/20/2004 12:47:49 PM
this stuff is not in doubt, not refuted by the campaign. You can make the defense that a lot of Guard members did this kind of thing then. That may be true. But it is certainly not true that he fulfilled his service obligations, anymore than it is true that he entered the service without influence.
Bush could settle the whole thing by just saying where he was and what he was doing. Cheney's settled the whole thing by just admitting he got deferments. What keeps this alive is that it makes it look like Bush was doing something even worse than skipping guard service.
10192. thoughtful - 9/20/2004 12:51:39 PM
what keeps this alive is the fact that the gopers want it kept alive....keep the focus on and generate dispute over events 35 years ago and you keep the focus on things that most people don't know or could care less about thereby keeping the focus off the war in iraq, the budget deficit, the anemic jobs growth, the increased risk in terrorism, the fact that no one knows where bin laden is, the increasing nuclear threat in n. korea and iran, etc etc etc
10193. judithathome - 9/20/2004 12:54:58 PM
The DC sniper and Timothy McVeigh were honorably discharged, too.
10194. thoughtful - 9/20/2004 1:05:01 PM
Q for concerned and other conservatives in these parts, does it not bother you at all that the bushies are vetting audience members before they are even allowed into all these campaign events? That those who won't sign a loyalty oath to the president are not allowed in?
10195. concerned - 9/20/2004 1:23:16 PM
Bush could settle the whole thing by just saying where he was and what he was doing.
He has. It's settled. What more do you want?
10196. concerned - 9/20/2004 1:25:08 PM
This tautology may surprise the propagandaists among the Left:
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach
our children."
- John F. Kerry
10197. jayackroyd - 9/20/2004 1:34:54 PM
He has. It's settled. What more do you want?
Oh? Where was he, what was he doing, and show me the quote.
10198. jexster - 9/20/2004 2:00:44 PM
I3B3
This is the single most comphrensive treatment of how the Bush neocon plan to privatize IraQ wound up screwing the place all to hell.
Cole's got all the factoids but here it is in one place.
Unfortunately it is not on the web but in the September issue of Harpers Mag
Report
Baghdad Year Zero
Pillaging Iraq in pursuit of a neocon utopia
Naomi Klein
Bottom line...no reconstruction, no employment steadily worsening security and steadily strenghening insurgency financed and manned in large measure as a direct consequence of the fact that these idiots had no clue what they were doing
And have now become, in the words of the British Ambassador to Italy, "recruiting sergeants for Al Qaeda"
I say hold them accountable
That is what an election in a representative democracy is all about
10199. OhioSTOPAS - 9/20/2004 2:14:03 PM
Message # 10196: "concerned", that's something Dan Quayle said, not John Kerry. The same is true for the quote regarding NASA you earlier falsely attributed to Kerry.
10200. judithathome - 9/20/2004 2:30:27 PM
Glad you cleared that up, Ohio...I was thinking he was quoting Bush but Quayle is good enough.
10201. judithathome - 9/20/2004 2:31:14 PM
"It's not easy putting food on your family"....GW Bush.
10202. thoughtful - 9/20/2004 2:41:41 PM
hahahaha. Why just today I got a lot of mileage out of this favorite W quote:
"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long I'm the dictator." December 18, 2000
10203. Magoseph - 9/20/2004 2:45:29 PM
I like that one: "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —George W. Bush, Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004
10204. judithathome - 9/20/2004 2:56:42 PM
Good letter in "Altercation" today about the forged documents:
Name: Alan Hampton
Hometown: Austin, TX
Can someone please explain to me how the Bush campaign can tell within 24 hours that a scan of a fax of a Xerox of a document that restates known facts about W's National Guard service is a forgery, but the same people couldn't determine for several months that the Niger "yellowcake" letters were obvious fakes? Are we supposed to hold 60 Minutes II to a higher standard than the State of the Union address? Are the pundits that are screaming that Dan Rather has lost credibility willing to apply the same standards to Bush?
10205. OhioSTOPAS - 9/20/2004 3:03:26 PM
That IS a good point.
And regarding Magoseph's (Message # 10203), what's up with Bush on the campaign trail constantly referring to doctors as "docs"? Did a focus group tell Karl Rove that "docs" sounds like regular folks?
10206. thoughtful - 9/20/2004 3:03:53 PM
for ny times fans, this sunday's oped page had short pieces from people on how kerry should boost his campaign. To give you an idea, panetta's piece was entitled, "Pick a Message, Any Message".
The fact that this far into the campaign, polls show people don't feel they know kerry or where he stands, and political types are still pushing kerry to get on message and stay on message, shows what an absolute disaster this campaign has been...even without the efforts of the rove-meister. Unless he gets his act together FAST, this will go down in history as the most inept campaign, second only to that of gore.
With all the material w has handed the dems, this election is kerry's to lose, and so far he's doing a darned fine job of it!
10207. Magoseph - 9/20/2004 3:05:14 PM
His base is mostly composed of regular folks who speak as he does, Ohio.
10208. Magoseph - 9/20/2004 3:08:50 PM
It was in Milwaukee for four months. I don't know, but it seems to me that Dallas would have had him at one point the last ten years or so.
10209. Magoseph - 9/20/2004 3:09:39 PM
Sorry for the above post. I thought that I was in the Cafe.
10210. concerned - 9/20/2004 3:34:19 PM
Maybe jayackroyd asked the question in another thread 'what did gwb do during his 1973 ANG service', but I'm posting the answer here. This is from The Facts about Bush and the National Guard - The Democratic charges fall apart.:
On the other hand, showing up for drills was still meeting one's responsibility to the Guard. And, as 1973 went along, the evidence suggests that Bush stepped up his work to make up for the time he had missed earlier. In April of that year, he received credit for two days; in May, he received credit for 14 days; in June, five days; and in July, 19 days. That was the last service Bush performed in the Guard. Later that year, he asked for and received permission to leave the Guard early so he could attend Harvard Business School. He was given an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months, and five days of his original six-year commitment.
So we know that GWB met his ANG service commitment in full, earning his honorable discharge.
10211. wonkers2 - 9/20/2004 3:34:25 PM
Here's the message--
Bush is a failed president
---Foreign policy--he's gotten us into a mess in Iraq based on false information; alienated our allies and increased our risk from terrorism;
---Economic policy--he's cut taxes for the rich while increasing spending and let the national debt skyrocket with a predictable result--a sluggish economy and high unemployment--he says he is for jobs but where? China, India, Bangladesh??;
---Social Security and Medicare--Bush, in effect, took money needed for Social Security and Medicare and gave it to the rich via a big tax cut and his solution is to turn our tried and true Social Security system over to the wolves of Wall Street and Medicare over to the drug companies;
---The Environment--Bush has misled the American people, portraying himself as an environmentalist while giving the mining, oil, lumber and energy industries a blank check;
--Education--Bush's underfunded program has left thousands of children behind;
Bush has failed us on foreign policy, he's failed us on jobs and the economy; he's failed on Medicare and Social Security; he's turned the air, the woods and streams over to polluters; and he's balooned the national debt, leaving it for our grandchildren to pay off; and he gets an F on his underfunded education policy which has left thousands of children behind.
10212. wonkers2 - 9/20/2004 3:35:02 PM
It's time for a change!
10213. thoughtful - 9/20/2004 4:10:58 PM
wonk, that falls into the same trap though that it's not enough for kerry to be the non-bush (though it clearly is for some of us). He needs to create his own vision and state it clearly.
Regrettably, it's all about image and sound bite. It's all about controlling the message. Kerry has been reactionary vs. proactive. It's all about being understandable. Bush talked about the "tax gap" in kerry's plan. He said kerry's plan simply doesn't pay for itself and that means there's a tax gap. And you know who's going to have to fill that gap...you the taxpayer. Vote for me and I'll make sure your taxes don't go up.
Very simple, straightforward, and understandable to the common man. That sells.
Going into the details of the fact that bush has cut taxes and increased spending and driven up the deficit and then going into multigenerational taxing issues, or the impact of the deficit on long-run interest rates and investment spending down the road, while true and important, simply doesn't sell.
In fact, if you look at bush's approach, he talks very simply about his plan and then has a web site for the policy wonks to look up the details. The majority of people though aren't going anywhere near that web site, I guarantee it. All he needs to do is state I have a plan and you can read it yourself is enough for most folks.
The approach is very effective.
10214. robertjayb - 9/20/2004 4:28:28 PM
Investor's Business Daily/Christian Science Monitor poll out today has exactly the same numbers as Zogby: Bush 46%, Kerry 43% among likely voters. Among registered voters Bush 44%, Kerry 43%.
(-- Josh Marshall)
10215. judithathome - 9/20/2004 5:04:37 PM
Regrettably, it's all about image and sound bite. It's all about controlling the message.
It doesn't matter how smartly Kerry speaks or what his "message" is by the time it reaches the media. I watch different news channels all day long and it's the same on all of them...the Republicans come on with their talking points and the Democrats get pasted each time. Meanwhile, they are running LIVE shots of the Bush speeches because, well, he's the President! and he's speaking to crowds! Little matter that those crowds have been culled of all dissenters and are filled with hand-picked people who have signed oaths of fealty to the man.
If Kerry gets on at all, it is a quickie shot of him talking and they don't show the points he actually makes but instead, anything he says about Bush is higlighted. Then cut to the studio where some flunky the RNC has plugged in parrots the daily line...today's was "Kerry is floundering around with no message and is getting in a panic as his numbers plummet" and no one corrects these obvious lies and fiction.
Today I stood up and cheered as Jamie Rubin slapped down the RNC puppet du jour...this is what Kerry needs: smart, articulate guys who have the bearing and command to swat these gnats around when they come out with the party line.
10216. jexster - 9/20/2004 5:09:27 PM
GOP Sen. Won't Commit to Voting for Bush
Mon Sep 20, 3:32 PM ET
By BROOKE DONALD, Associated Press Writer
PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Republican Sen. Lincoln Chafee (news, bio, voting record) said Monday he plans to support his party in November but may write in a candidate instead of voting for President Bush (news - web sites).
The Republican said the party's direction in the future will determine his political career as well. He said he's "not OK" with the conservative platform from the Republican convention, but would not say if he'd consider switching parties in his next election in 2006.
"It wasn't that long ago that moderates had more of a voice," Chafee said. "It's a cycle that I hope will come back."
He isn't going to write in anyone ...that's just a cover story for his REAL vote.
God knows, the Busheviks have no mercy on "traitors"..they've even ordered the SF RCCC not to endorse local GOP candidates who are members of Log Cabin ...a move which is incredibly harmful to the local GOP..but no matter it is all for the Greater Glory of the Idiot Son...
That son of privilege, that coward, that fortunate son
10217. jexster - 9/20/2004 5:10:50 PM
Regrettably, it's all about image and sound bite. It's all about controlling the message.
WHO SAID THAT?
What slimy twinkle toes commie cock sucker said that?
Whoever...RIGHT ON
10218. jexster - 9/20/2004 5:13:54 PM
Kerry Says He Wouldn't Have Ousted Saddam
NEW YORK - Staking out new ground on Iraq (news - web sites), Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) suggested Monday that he would not have overthrown Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had he known what he knows now, and accused President Bush (news - web sites) of "stubborn incompetence," dishonesty and colossal failures of judgment. Bush said Kerry was flip-flopping.
AP Photo
Latest headlines:
· Presidential Polls Glance
AP - 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
· Cheney Again Warns Against Choosing Kerry
AP - 1 hour, 44 minutes ago
· Duped CBS Regrets Airing Disputed Bush Memos
Reuters - 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
All Election Coverage
Less than two years after voting to give Bush authority to invade Iraq, the Democratic candidate said that had he known there were no weapons of mass destruction and had he been president, he would not have followed Bush's path to war. Bush, also speaking hypothetically, says he would have invaded Iraq, even knowing what he knows now.
"Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell," Kerry said. "But that was not, in itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure."
YES!
That's the TD position.
10219. Wombat - 9/20/2004 6:02:38 PM
Unfortunately the days that Calhoun claimed he saw Bush do service in Alabama do not coincide with Bush's records. The point totals have been examined and found wrongly credited. Keep trying, Concerned.
10220. jexster - 9/20/2004 6:46:45 PM
Shoulda Listened to Poppy
The Tet New Year Comes Early for His Moron Son
Iraq War is Unwinnable
Message # 1348 in thread 161
10221. jexster - 9/20/2004 7:23:12 PM
Funny how this bogus story of the Bush double digit lead cuts.
I mean there are only two interpretations:
1)The lead never existed, the race has always been a dead heat for the past 2 weeks
or
2) The lead existed and Bush's popularity has plummeted 10% or so in less than a week
Now as a Kerry man I sure like 2 but believe 1 is true
A Bushie on the other hand believes 2 but likes 1 better.
Isn't life strange.
10222. arkymalarky - 9/20/2004 8:15:22 PM
10133. concerned - 9/19/2004 4:27:10 PM
Re. 10035 -
'Convincingly' doesn't cut it. It has to be true, and most of Kitty Kelly's 'dirt' on the Bushes has been discredited.
By whom?
And I'm glad Ohio called you on the quotes. I read one on Bushisms in Slate just today.
10223. winstonsmith - 9/20/2004 8:17:50 PM
Jexter,
"The lead existed and Bush's popularity has plummeted 10% or so in less than a week"
This one would sound great on the news. Bet we won't hear it.
10224. arkymalarky - 9/20/2004 8:18:30 PM
What's helping Bush wrt Iraq is fading and will hurt him as headlines simply can't be ignored and his inability to change his message or accept the reality of its lunacy becomes more obvious. He's painted himself into a corner that will be achingly obvious Nov 3. His friends like Hastert and Cheney aren't going to help, and Republicans of conscience who continue to speak out will add to the pile.
He'd better do damned well in the debates.
10225. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:45:22 PM
On the day that reports of Sir Ivor Roberts observation to the Italian Government that Al Qaeda would back Bush's election hit British and US news, the Guardian UK reports that 71% of Britons want their government to set a timetable to withdraw troops from the Bush Quagmire.
Bush was able to work his suck and jive about IraQ behind the smokescreen of 9/11 hysteria and then behind the TV commercials and the conventions and the snarling Cheney and ScuzBoat attacks.
Now he has to stand toe to toe in the spotlight
The American people can now focus on this disaster more clearly and see that the Emperor has no clothes
10226. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:48:21 PM
Kerry put in plainly - he would have invaded to secure the vital security interests of the US.
He would not have invaded to overthrow Saddam.
That not only puts Bush in the very uncomfortable position of having to explain away his pre-war statements to that same effect, it also exposes the flip flopping, the crawfishing, the incompetence, the flatulent spin and the lies that Bush continues to tell
No where for him to run.
Nowhere to hide
10227. jexster - 9/20/2004 8:51:23 PM
Of course we won't..these people can't diss their own polls
And that is a REAL problem
When CNN or any organization commissions a poll, you will notice that virtually without exception all of their analysis is based on that poll and no others.
Stands to reason that their analyses would not be credible if they did otherwise.
If their polls come crashing back to earth, if next time their demographics aren't screwed up they will wrongly report a Kerry surge but will probably do so in whispered tones because he was never really behind to begin with and they know it
10228. jexster - 9/20/2004 11:08:22 PM
GWB's "Honorable Discharge" Discharged NyT
I guess you missed the final paragraphs TD..
When questions arose about Mr. Bush's Guard service, the White House asked a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, Albert C. Lloyd Jr., to review his record. In a memorandum released by the White House in February, Mr. Lloyd wrote that from May 1973 through May 1974, Mr. Bush accumulated 35 training points and 15 points for being a Guard member "for a total of 56 points.'' It is not clear how Mr. Lloyd came up with 56, instead of 50. Another military document released by the White House indicates that Mr. Bush had earned only 38 points from May 1973 until his discharge that October.
A retired Army colonel, Gerald A. Lechliter, who has prepared an extensive analysis of Mr. Bush's National Guard record, described Mr. Lloyd's memorandum as "seemingly an attempt to whitewash Bush's record." Mr. Lloyd declined comment last week.
Mr. Lechliter, who describes himself as a political independent, also said that Mr. Bush was not entitled to 20 credits he received from Nov. 13, 1972, until July 19, 1973, because the service was being made up improperly.
Mr. Lechliter also said that Mr. Bush should not have been paid for these sessions. "That would appear to be a fraud," he said in an interview last week.
However the points added up, on Oct. 1, 1973, Mr. Bush was awarded an honorable discharge. By that time he was already at Harvard.
A moral coward and liar then
and now
10229. jayackroyd - 9/21/2004 1:16:42 AM
On the other hand, showing up for drills was still meeting one's responsibility to the Guard. And, as 1973 went along, the evidence suggests that Bush stepped up his work to make up for the time he had missed earlier. In April of that year, he received credit for two days; in May, he received credit for 14 days; in June, five days; and in July, 19 days. That was the last service Bush performed in the Guard. Later that year, he asked for and received permission to leave the Guard early so he could attend Harvard Business School. He was given an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months, and five days of his original six-year commitment.
You obviously didn't read the times piece. First, it's impossible to make up, legally, time in blocks like that because time has to be made up within 30 days in the same fiscal year. Second, those counts have already been demonstrated to be false, taking place on dates when there wsa no service happening.
10230. jexster - 9/21/2004 5:00:43 AM
Raising the question once again What is Bush Hiding?
Because when he's hiding something, we all know that he has something to hide and is probably lying
10231. jexster - 9/21/2004 5:11:08 AM
George Will calls them to account
Dubious Dreams About Iraq
We're tired of being lied to.
Liberal, conservative and those in between, tired of the Little Yale Cheerleader's Pep Rallies. We're tired of his sideline cheers when the team is two touchdowns back, 2 min left, no time outs
We're ready to hold him accountable for his lies and his incompetence as commander in chief, not his skills as Bullshitter-in-chief.
10232. jexster - 9/21/2004 5:34:51 AM
In his post, ARG v. Gallup, Ruy T says watch the ARG September 50 State Polls which he believes will reinforce even more the view that this race remains close.
According to an analysis of the 2000 race linked in the post, ARG was more accurate in September than Gallup was in the last days of the race.
Partial 20 poll release shows Maine now in Kerry's Kamp and Colorado tied.
The rest will be released Wednesday
10233. judithathome - 9/21/2004 7:19:46 AM
Big header in our paper today states "Bush Pulling Ahead in Gore States".
10234. RickNelson - 9/21/2004 8:07:54 AM
News in Minnesota polls are putting red where blue used to be. But, I find interesting the purple being used to consider counties with swayable votes. Without counting the counties involved I will guess half are purple here in 10,000 Lakes land.
I'll vote Kerry to oust the Lier Bush and his crony thief Cheney.
10235. RickNelson - 9/21/2004 8:09:55 AM
Liar, I meant liar. Damn English spelling.
10236. wonkers2 - 9/21/2004 8:27:03 AM
I.M.F. CHIEF SEES POTENTIAL HAZARD IN U.S. FISCAL POLICIES
The managing director of the International Monetary Fund, Rodrigo de Rato, said yesterday that the dollar would have to fall and the U. S. would have to tackle its growing indebtedness to avoid a threat to the world economy xsome time in the future.
He noted that with the U.S.'s deficitg remaining well over 4 percent of its gross domestic product for years to come, "some correction in the value of currencies will make sense from the point of view of fundamentals."
"We believe such a large imbalance is a risk not only for the U.S. economy, but for the world economy," he said.
NYT 9-21-04
10237. RickNelson - 9/21/2004 8:33:02 AM
so, what do the fiscal conservative Republican's think about that?
Nothing is my guess.
10238. clydefo - 9/21/2004 9:34:30 AM
A UN Democracy Fund with significant US contributions? Did I notice a perceptible shift of the delegates to the front of their seats and grins all around?
10239. jayackroyd - 9/21/2004 9:38:21 AM
Notice that he didn't state a number? And that he reiterated the 15 billion dollar AIDS promise--that was never kept.
But what got me most of all were the recitations of innocent children killed for no reason. There are lots of little graves in Iraq as well, and I don't see how anyone could not have that cross his or her mind.
10240. jexster - 9/21/2004 10:24:53 AM
I dunno WHICH Gore states they are talking about...PA had some funny polls, Wisconsin too...but I don't see any pulling away from any polls JAH..
They do love their liars in Tejas..a role model I guess
10241. jexster - 9/21/2004 10:25:23 AM
Either that or they're 10 days behind in their news..
Another real possibilty
10242. jexster - 9/21/2004 10:27:48 AM
Voter Terrorism
For decades, Republicans have mounted highly organized operations to discourage minorities from voting. Experts say there's no reason to believe this year's presidential campaign will be any different
Thus far and for the record, of the 20 states released, ARG has Kerry ahead in 4 of 5 battlegrounds listed.
In the one, Bush leads by 1 point in Colorado which he won easily in 2000
10243. jexster - 9/21/2004 10:29:50 AM
I think Colorado is hot for two reasons..first the influx of Hispanics since 2000 and also because Coors is the GOP Senate candidate...next to that guy Coburn in OK, he's about as far right a major candidate as the GOP has fielded..He's Keyesian wack
10244. thoughtful - 9/21/2004 10:51:31 AM
Regrettably, it's all about image and sound bite. It's all about controlling the message.
WHO SAID THAT?
What slimy twinkle toes commie cock sucker said that?
Um....er...jex, that was me.
I don't think i quite fit that very graphic description though. My twinkle toes are far from slimy.
10245. OhioSTOPAS - 9/21/2004 11:36:55 AM
George W. Bush has a document - an honorable discharge - that states he honorably fulfilled his duty to the National Guard. Bush and his defenders brandish this document in answer to all charges that he failed to do his duty.
CBS has phony documents that accurately state what happened, but Bush trumps them with a genuine document that falsely states what happened.
10246. jexster - 9/21/2004 11:59:34 AM
10247. jexster - 9/21/2004 12:09:09 PM
As usual thoughtfilled!
Hollywood Freeway Near Franklin
10248. thoughtful - 9/21/2004 1:14:57 PM
seems women are to blame. kerry better start harping on abortion rights and child care issues and health care and the environment, etc. and who was it? saffire of all people who suggested kerry needs to remind all mothers that if the iraq quagmire isn't resolved, their 8 year olds may be shipped off to iraq in 10 years.
10249. thoughtful - 9/21/2004 1:17:14 PM
no guess it wasn't saffire, but somebody. anyway, it was a good point.
10250. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 9/21/2004 1