The Good Life

pt. 2

anti Martha:
doesn't know radicchio from arugula and doesn't care to
thinks naming your house is dumb, especially a name like turkey hill
thinks A&P ice cream is fine
thinks grilling is something the cops do to perps

5011. bubbaette - 7/24/2000 3:37:01 PM

All excellent, Thoughtful.

5012. Thoughtful - 7/24/2000 3:44:36 PM

Bbbtt -- not as good as your glue gun shot!

Also, the anti-Martha actually pays for the gifts she gives, unlike the real martha who uses them as props on her show first....like the "how to make a nice fruit basket" which she then gave to her nephew as a gift.

5013. Ronski - 7/24/2000 3:47:13 PM

I always thought the sobriquet, the dominatrix of domesticity, fit Martha beautifully.

5014. thoughtful - 7/24/2000 9:41:41 PM

Here's a web site which has a drawing and both calls of the Phoebe and the Peewee: Songs & calls of some NY state birds

5015. Ronski - 7/25/2000 11:22:41 AM

Thoughtful,

Thanks for the link.

5016. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 1:21:33 PM

Places to go for decorative tchotchkes....TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Home Goods, Kirklands. You can spend a lot on this stuff because it takes a lot of stuff to fully decorate a room, but at least these places will help you out until you can replace the junk with quality...and you don't mind if some of it breaks or gets damaged in the mean time as it's all junk...but it can look terrific.

5017. theDiva - 7/25/2000 1:25:20 PM

Pier One and Ikea are good for that, too. Interesting, inexpensive, cool stuff.

5018. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:00:09 PM

Diva, don't have an ikea close by so haven't explored their realm yet. Pier one does have some neat stuff, but even though imported goods prices have dropped like crazy, I haven't found that to be true at pier 1. They were originally a very cheap import store and then pushed prices up as the $ weakened. They developed a cache and are now still more expensive than some of the other places. Of course, if they've got what you want, go for it.

I should also mention Tuesday Morning which is a most bizarre store in that they are only open certain times of the year. But they do get an incredible selection of stuff at good prices. Lots of xmas stuff in nov-dec too.

5019. DocBrown - 7/25/2000 4:10:08 PM

My wife, Porsche, swears by Tuesday Morning for wedding presents.

5020. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:10:31 PM

oh, yeah, there's a Tuesday Morning right here in Diva City, but oddly enough, I've never been. And I love a good bargain. Eventually I'll get there.

I haven't found Pier One to be all that pricey - well, except for their furniture. Gracie and I always do our Christmas shopping there, both for ornaments and for teacher/friend gifts. And they always have really neat little staples for the house for very low prices. Last week I got this beautiful triangular green glass bottle with a sun blown in the sides, and a cork in the top, for three bucks. I put dish soap in it. They also have these really nice heavy white accessory pieces from China - things like butter dishes and ramekins and spoon rests - for a few bucks each.

Ikea has similar stuff, plus really good Swedish meatballs in their cafeteria. Bet they're not all that authentic, but they're the right price for a decent lunch.

5021. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 4:14:22 PM

They are supposed to be authentic. Are there lingonberries?

5022. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:24:51 PM

oh, yes. Delicious. And nice, little red boiled potatoes.

I'm making me hungry.

5023. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 4:26:16 PM

So, they are authentic.

5024. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:28:22 PM

No kidding! How about that.

5025. Ronski - 7/25/2000 4:37:31 PM

Pelle,

I make authentic Swedish meatballs and insist that they be flavored with allspice, in addition to being served with lingonberries.

Our cranberries are related to lingonberries, you know.

Ikea also has, usually, cookies made with cardamon (as well as ginger snaps), and jars of cloudberry preserves.

Cloudberries resemble golden raspberries, my fellow Americans.

5026. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:39:49 PM

Diva, you have to understand that I am extraordinarily cheap -- I buy my hubby suits at the goodwill and complain if they're over $35!

5027. JudithAtHome - 7/25/2000 4:40:50 PM

Tonight we're going to dinner at the golf club near our home...it is a huge sandstone castle built in the late 20s, outrageous looking. I've only formerly dined on the terrace so being inside will be a treat. I'm more excited about where we're eating than what...

5028. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:41:11 PM

Economists.

5029. glendajean - 7/25/2000 4:42:49 PM

Judith -- this isn't the same Fort Worth club where the millionaire supposedly shot his wife's lover and got off scott free?

5030. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:45:00 PM

Div, don't know if it's because I'm an economist or Polish...though of course those are not necessarily independent events.

Judithah, sometimes it's fun to eat at the place because of the place...like the haunted old victorian we ate at one night. The food was bland but the home was decorated beautifully and ghost stories abounded...they even had a strolling magician performing table-side tricks.

Then there was that crazy revolving restaurant at the top of Oahu -- the food was ok, but the view absolutely incredible.

5031. JudithAtHome - 7/25/2000 4:47:23 PM

GJ:

Do you mean Cullen Davis?

I'd seriously doubt this was the place; it has belonged to the Air Force since the 1940s. A few years ago, the AF base closed and this golf club was turned over to our little village. We've been offered tons of money for it but are keeping it because the property is so valuable...

5032. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:47:34 PM

In the winter, hubby likes to complain loudly about the CPB --
Cheap Pollack Bitch -- who's the landlord and won't turn up the heat! (You see, I'm responsible for paying the oil bill.) My usual response in my best Polish accent is, "Dees not cold. In Varshava, dat was cold. Dees is nice, like summer." or "If you're cold, put on a sweater!"

5033. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 4:47:45 PM

Ronski

Why do you make authentic Swedish meatballs? Have I missed something?

5034. JudithAtHome - 7/25/2000 4:49:12 PM

Thoughtful:

In Germany, we used to eat in this cave all the time...it had suits of armor and live bats flitting in and out...the food was fantastic, though.

5035. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:51:10 PM

oh, we ate in that restaurant in Oahu! It was so neat.

5036. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:56:00 PM

A cave? Wow! I've never eaten at one of those medieval joints either where you're supposed to call the waitress "wench" and stuff -- though it sounds like it could be fun... In FL we ate at the bomber squadron which was cool. At the edge of PBI airport, the building is like a damaged french cottage and inside is all sorts of WWII memorabilia and 40s music playing. They even had a fire in the fireplace! It was fun.

5037. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:58:24 PM

Diva--the only bizarre thing was trying to figure out how you get out of the restaurant as where you came in is in a different location by the time you leave. It was neat though. My favorite place in HI was the (at the time a Sheraton) Princeville hotel which is 11 stories built into the side of a cliff overlook Hanalei bay. Beautiful!

5038. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 5:02:16 PM

Thoughtful

About Poles and cloudberries. We were used to seeing those small cars, the Polish version of Fiat, with four or five guys in them going through here on their way to the north to make some money picking cloudberries. They would live in tents and spend a minimum on food. In two weeks they could make the equivalent of 3-4 months salary in Poland, or so it was said. But with rising living standards in Poland there is much less of that now and their role is taken over by Russians.

5039. Ronski - 7/25/2000 5:07:47 PM

Pelle,

There was a passing reference to authenticity in Swedish meatballs at the Ikea stores. My point was that lingonberries on the side alone do not make for authenticity, but a certain spiciness brought on by the addition of allspice. Mind you, all such recipes vary widely from chef to chef, I'm sure, even in Sweden.

Do you have any opinion on the allspice issue?

5040. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 5:16:57 PM

Ronski

Personally I don't use allspice because my mother didn't. But I wouldn't condemn it as non-authentic. Garlic, chilies and such is another thing altogether.

My question was really a roundabout way of asking if you have Swedish or Scandinavian roots.

5041. Ronski - 7/25/2000 5:19:38 PM

Pelle,

No, I don't actually, but I have always felt a kinship for Scandinavia, for reasons I cannot quite explain.

And my partner (my beloved) is one-quarter Danish, descended from immigrants who settled in a Danish colony in Kansas.

5042. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 5:27:00 PM

Perhaps it is your love of nature. It is a very Scandinivian trait (except for the Danes who rather drink beer and smoke cigars).

5043. prolph - 7/26/2000 4:12:49 AM

i missed the diss Martha fest; it was mean but funny. Somrwhat apt though since I only recently finished having my interior painted and installing blinds to match. The horrible refurbishing came with bew carpet. Never recarpet a house you are living in. It is far worse than moving. Thereare still boxes in the garage to be restored to their rightful places. I moved to Escondido in 1987. T he carpet wasn't in great shape then. But everytime I thouht of replacing it I'd think"for that kind of money I could take a trip". Last year when I returned from the BLack sea and eclipse viewing I looked at the carpet and decided that for the price of a trip I could recarpet. Besides. there is no trip planned until June of 01 which will be the first total splar eclipse of the third milleneum.

5044. Thoughtful - 7/26/2000 10:21:30 AM

prolph, don't get me wrong.... I spend a lot of time decorating my house and love doing crafts and such....it's just Martha who's my favorite person to hate....probably because of her false front and her superior attitude, and her genuine lack of humor, and her incredible cheapness despite her extraordinary wealth.....

5045. theDiva - 7/26/2000 10:29:54 AM

Thoughtful

I remember it being weird getting out! And my favorite place on that trip was the Turtle Bay Hilton. God, it was gorgeous. I'm going back someday.

5046. Thoughtful - 7/26/2000 10:43:56 AM

I've always wanted to go back too. We were on a tour and though we had a lot of free time, it wasn't in the places we wanted it -- for example we wanted to spend more time in the volcanoes nat'l park, and never got a chance to walk on a black sand beach. Lanai was just plantations when we were there and I understand that's quite nice now too...if only it were closer to home. The flight was not fun.

5047. theDiva - 7/26/2000 10:52:41 AM

Our flight was awful, especially the one going home. (I went into premature labor the very next day.)

But the visit itself was nice. We were attending a company shindig and so my husband had to work part of the time, which gave me free time to sit by the pool or on the beach, shop, etc. They had lovely activities planned for us - catamaran ride around the bay with live band and cocktails(though I was seasick the entire time, it was very pretty), evening luau at the TB Hilton, barbecue on the beach at the estate where they shot 'Magnum, P.I.', some screenings, that sort of thing. Plus they built in free time for us as couples so we were able to explore. We rented a car and drove up the coast, stopping for lunch and such. It was wonderful.

5048. Thoughtful - 7/26/2000 11:32:20 AM

Hawaii is truly paradise.

Premature labor? Yuck. As I recall, hubby contracted intestinal flu -- as did a number of others on the tour just before we left. In fact he was in the can tossing his cookies during takeoff, then proceeded to sleep the rest of the way home. Not fun.

I don't remember where we had our luau -- it may have been on the big island, but I remember that we sat next to Beau Bridges and family...I knew who he was (though he didn't seem to know me!) and fortunately hubby didn't recognize him or I'm sure he would've said something. Rather we all just enjoyed ourselves like anyone you'd meet at a luau. It was cool, though the poi was yucky...not like real poi which has a consistency more like cream of wheat cereal.

Definitely on my list of for a someday return.

5049. bubbaette - 7/26/2000 11:34:18 AM

DH and I are planning a Hawaiian vacation after Ms. Vole finishes college.

5050. Thoughtful - 7/26/2000 11:47:58 AM

bbbtt, definitely a good idea. We went with Tauck tours. In fact we've taken several with them and have thoroughly enjoyed them. They're expensive, but for what you get, it's really worth every penny. The tour I linked to is the closest they have now to what we did then ... we did 5 islands including Molokai, which they've obviously deleted. But however you get there, just do it. It's great.

5051. Thoughtful - 7/27/2000 10:48:58 AM

I have our first red tomato sitting on my window sill -- I think tonight we will dig in. Can't wait!

I made one of my favorite veggie dishes the other night with fresh veggies from my dad: little olive oil in the pan with onion, garlic and green pepper. Saute until onions are translucent. Add mushrooms and yellow squash and zucchini. Saute some more. Then add tomaotes --I had to use canned as we don't have enough fresh yet, but hopefully soon. Salt & pepper to taste. Saute until as tender as you like. Top with a handful of fresh herbs (basil, parsley, whatever). Serve hot as a side dish or over pasta or rice...if you want more protein add some mozz. cheese to melt before serving - but be prepared to deal with the pan afterward! Or sprinkle with parmesan. Lots of ways to play with this recipe (sometimes I sprinkle in hot pepper flakes) but it always comes out good.

5052. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2000 3:08:19 PM

We are going to Hawaii in November but the places we stay are rather different...with family! Bad news, though...my sister is moving from Maui to California so we will be dropping one leg off our journey. We'll be on Oahu and on the Big Island. Kona for a few days and Hilo for a few days and then to Honolulu for a few....we've been so often that we've done all the touristy things so mainly we just visit family and friends.

5053. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 4:22:17 PM

Help me, pet-owners:
A scrawny, black stray kitten wandered into our yard last night and Bob and Mose declared they wanted to keep her. I'm allergic, so it will have to be an outdoor cat. Mose's doxie is over a year old and does not seem inclined to leave the cat alone. She tries to bite it if she's allowed anywhere close. Our Dumb Dora Lab has had cat-pals in the past and she seemed amenable to adding this kitten to the family and approached slowly, docilely, with tail wagging, until she got close enough to put almost the whole cat in her mouth. It kind of reminded me of a Sylvester and Tweety episode. After our reaction, though, the lab has left the cat alone, but Diva can't be trusted. I'm afraid she'd kill it before we could stop her, it's such a tiny thing--ugly as homemade soap, too.

Any tips for getting Diva used to the cat, or is it a lost cause?

5054. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2000 4:33:45 PM

No help from me....Klaus hates all other 4 legged creatures.

5055. Ronski - 7/27/2000 4:41:36 PM

If you pet the kitten and make nice in front of the dog while at the same time being very affectionate to the dog, perhaps she will understand that the kitten is more or less part of the family.

I've heard its unwise to try to keep them apart all the time. That creates animosity.

I don't know, it's a hard one, especially if the cat will have to stay outside.

5056. theDiva - 7/27/2000 4:47:49 PM

Hey! I LOVE cats!

5057. Thoughtful - 7/27/2000 4:54:18 PM

Aren't doxies ratters? Diva may think it's just a rat and may instinctively want to destroy it -- at least until it gets bigger. The only thing I know to do is spells of supervised visitation where you don't allow Diva to annoy the kitten at all, but get used to its presence. And as Ronski suggest, you need to assure Diva that the kitten is not a usurper of affection. "Sibling" rivalry among pets can be strong. Supervision will probably be needed for quite awhile.

5058. theDiva - 7/27/2000 4:55:49 PM

this is all very disconcerting.

5059. CalGal - 7/27/2000 5:23:40 PM

Diva,

Now you know how I felt when Bubba described CalGal as short, chubby, and barrelchested.

5060. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 5:24:42 PM

"Hey! I LOVE cats!"

Yeah, like Sylvester loves Tweetybirds! (g)

We're trying the pet them both, putting them fairly close together but with us holding them, approach. Diva does seem to see the cat as prey, and it's not much bigger than a rat. The problem is that Diva goes in and out as she wants to and we have no pens, so the cat and Diva will have to share some outside time with no supervision pretty quickly, and bunches of it when we go back to work in a couple of weeks.

Anybody want a scrawny black kitten or a spoiled little doxie? (kidding--I'm not ready for Bob and Mose to disown me yet--I may be in another few days, though)

5061. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 5:25:36 PM

Bubba's first posts on CalGal had me more than a little confused.

5062. glendajean - 7/27/2000 6:23:52 PM

Arky,

Is the Doxie neutered? Maybe as the testestorone diminishes, he'll calm down.

Does the cat have claws? As soon as the cat is big enough, he/she should be able to teach the dog about cats, claws and long snouted noses vulnerable to same.

I have a 7 month male Scotty, and he has never hurt my cats. He just likes to chase them (which scares them), and play with them like they're fellow puppies. Somedays are better than others.

The only thing I would really worry about is if the dogs, as a pack, when nobody else is around, turn on the poor cat. I've heard that happen, but it is usally with stranger dogs, rather than the household pack.

5063. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 8:32:47 PM

GJ,
Diva's a she and she is spayed, but it would have been a lot easier had she been exposed to cats as a puppy. My little Chilidog would never have adjusted to a cat, I don't think, but I hope, even if we don't keep the cat, that Diva will learn to coexist. The cat does have claws, but hasn't applied them yet, though I've let her close enough. That's how our other cat trained our dumb lab (whom I'd given up as untrainable) when the dog was about 7 mos old and the cat was a kitten. One fast swoop at the first sniff brought blood right by Sasha's eye and by the time the cat died, the two were best buds.

5064. thoughtful - 7/27/2000 9:13:39 PM

Of course, if the kitty is really little, I wouldn't let him outside on his own anyway. We kept Cas locked up in the bathroom with toys and kitty box and stuff until he was large enough to be trusted not to damage too much. The bath is all tile so fairly indestructible. Gradually we'd open a few more doors to him as we got to trust his being alone in the house more until finally he had free rein of the house. Then we introduced him to outdoors very gradually...at first under supervision and then with increase alone time. We waited until he was large enough, good enough claws and a demonstrated familiarity with tree climbing. After that, we figured he'd have a fair chance.

I worry about dogs who instinctively attack other animals. I saw a kitten killed almost instantaneously by a dog which charged it, grabbed it in its mouth, broke its back and tossed it into the air....like it was a rag doll.

5065. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 9:33:16 PM

I'm beginning to think we either need to get rid of him, which shouldn't be hard--I know a number of cat-lovers, or get him set up to be inside for quite a while.

Thanks for the good advice, all. We've had lots of stray dogs wander up out here, but rarely a stray cat, so our dogs just weren't prepared and neither were we. This kitty appeared in the middle of the night last night, and I was kind of amazed that Bob wanted to keep her.

5066. thoughtful - 7/27/2000 9:34:12 PM

Here's a page of advice on introducing a new pet into your home.

5067. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 9:43:39 PM

Cool, Thoughtful! Thanks!

5068. prolph - 7/28/2000 5:48:23 PM

Avian note: My son and I were entering a local shopping center behind which flows Escondid creek.
Son said hey look and there was a lovely crane. Apperently the erane was going to the Sports Authority. We were going to Staples.

5069. Thoughtful - 7/28/2000 5:50:51 PM

patsy -- so nice to have you back -- I hope you can visit more often!

5070. prolph - 7/28/2000 7:08:00 PM

Thanks thoughtful.My new computer is up but I have a learning curve to deal with. I can read it much much better than this--my webtv. i don't habe

5071. prolph - 7/28/2000 7:08:07 PM

Thanks thoughtful.My new computer is up but I have a learning curve to deal with. I can read it much much better than this--my webtv. i don't habe

5072. prolph - 7/28/2000 7:13:29 PM

Thanks thoughtful.My new computer is up but I have a learning curve to deal with. I can read it much much better than this--my webtv.

5073. Don S. - 7/28/2000 7:20:27 PM

Patsy! You should've warned that crane. Sports Authority is notoriously overpriced.

Have you investigated ViaVoice or similar products? ViaVoice supposedly lets you speak into a microphone and types out the words for you.

And on the Mac, you can highlight some text and have the system speak it to you.

Um, what sort of computer did you end up with?

5074. prolph - 7/29/2000 5:27:57 PM

Don, not yet on voice stuff. Geez I seem to have fouled up pretty good right here. On the other hand, the new keyboard is easier to see and use.
We had a computer built at nearby pc club and a NEC monitor--which i found easy tp read."We" of coutse is actually wizard son but I did choose a cute little wokstation all by myself. Hey, could you send mr the url for the Mote?

5075. PelleNilsson - 7/30/2000 9:21:28 AM

A common traffic sign on Swedish roads:

5076. theDiva - 7/31/2000 9:50:59 AM

cut me off a hunka moose......

5077. glendajean - 7/31/2000 10:23:11 AM

Ouch.

5078. Thoughtful - 7/31/2000 5:13:39 PM

Pelle,
I assume that sign means, "Stop for Moose in Crosswalk."

}:-)

5079. PelleNilsson - 8/1/2000 12:31:28 AM

It's not far off. Moose are creature of habit and this sign is put up where they usually cross the road. I don't have any figure on how many accidents involving moose there are but they are many.

5082. JudithAtHome - 8/1/2000 12:16:08 PM

When we lived in Maine, I saw a huge moose cross the road right in front of my car...trust me, he was huge and took his time and if he'd been of a mind to, could've flattened my car in a second. I was horrified and impressed...

5083. Ronski - 8/1/2000 12:23:32 PM

Moose crossing signs are common in Vermont. Moose are fairly common, as well.

5084. Thoughtful - 8/1/2000 1:06:17 PM

Is Mice the plural of Moose?

5085. Wombat - 8/1/2000 1:25:14 PM

Meese

5086. christipeters - 8/1/2000 1:35:45 PM

The first time my Dad went moose hunting, the group he was with reached their last day without seeing one (smart moose).

Then he spotted one - well sort-of. All he could see through the trees and brush were the antlers. So he sighted on them, swung over between them to where he estimated the head was and squeezed off a round. Result - one moose crashing away holding it's head a bit lopsided as one antler crashed to the ground. Dad brought the antler home and consoled me when I expressed pity for the poor lop-sided moose by telling me it would shed the other one soon.

When he and his buddies had their annual ice-fishing party, they presented him with a small plaque upon which resided a wooden carving of a moose head - minus one antler, with the inscription "Ugh! Pete shoot 'em up plenty good!"

5087. jonesatlaw - 8/2/2000 4:17:53 AM

Christi- great story! My father's moose story involves five young traveling salesmen, a 49' Hudson and an angry Mountie. In a contest between a rutting bull moose and a '49 Hudson, it's a draw with both contestants not surviving the combat. As for the salesman versus the Mountie, the Mountie wins. Every time.

5088. Ronski - 8/2/2000 10:42:38 AM

And '49 Hudsons were nothing to sneeze at when it came to sheer heft.

5089. christipeters - 8/2/2000 1:08:44 PM

jonesatlaw - That sounds like an interesting story! My Dad did eventually shoot a moose. He and the family decided we didn't like the way moose tastes, so he never shot another one. He didn't believe in hunting if you weren't going to eat what you killed. Having grown up on pheasant, partridge, quail, grouse, cottontail, Canada goose, duck (usually mallard, but sometimes wood duck or bufflehead), venison, bass, perch, and trout, I am now content with plain old beef, chicken, pork, or veggie-burgers, and salmon or tuna.

5090. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 1:16:21 PM

While in Maine, we had moose several times....the locals have ways of making you eat it.

5091. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 1:27:50 PM

Pelle:
Moose are creature of habit and this sign is put up where they usually cross the road.

Being a past,(lifelong), Mainer, (that's Main-ah to all flatlanders), moose are not so much creatures of habit... they are roamers who follow only what cover allows,
and where food is most plentiful. Those signs placed alongside roadways are there because the habitat on either side is conducive to moose preference of cover to travel through. Chances are good that the same moose will not be back through the same trail. They roam over 50-100 square miles, and unlike deer who stay relatively in the same area, have no real habitual crossings or trails.

Judith: You lived in Maine? Where about did you live? Once, when I was a boy, (about 9 yo), my dad, uncle and cousin were riding down an old tote-road heading back to camp in an old Willie's jeep, when we happened upon a female moose (cow), in the middle of the road. She had no intention of relenting until she was ready. However, she appeared skittish, and we assumed it was because of our presence. But shortly after, a large bull came out onto the road behind us...and we soon realized we were between him and his "date". To cut this story down somewhat, the bull attacked our poor jeep, having only fishing poles and a good buzz going we abandoned ship and watched for about 20 minutes as that old bull repeatedly charged, kicked, and stomped the jeep. By the time all was said and done, our jeep, was undriveable from the scene. 3 tires were blown, all the glass panes were broken, the hood, doors, and lights were smashed. It looked like we had hit a landmine or something similar. We just stood there in amazement at the ready to bolt if the need arised. We had to walk 8 miles back to camp and got a skidder to drag the jeep's carcass back to camp the next day.
He was plenty p-o'd at the jeep and left a lot of hair and some blood as a result.

5092. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 1:28:39 PM

judithah, that sounds ominous indeed -- are you suggesting we stay out of McDonald's in Maine? (I was surprised to see they had lobster rolls on the menu!)

christip, what's canada goose taste like? We are frequently overrun and often sorely tempted to have goose at xmas! But somehow, I think they'd taste like pondwater and be very fatty.

5093. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 1:32:13 PM

labw, what a story! You wouldn't think they'd confuse a jeep with a rival, but then again, no one ever said they were bright....I mean it's not like he couldn't have just walked around the darn thing. Wow! That musta been fun to explain to the insurance co.

5094. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 1:40:54 PM

Labwabbit:

We were at Loring AFB outside Limestone and Caribou. First time this Texas girl ever saw snow piled up to the second story window of a townhouse. I loved the cross-country skiing on the base golf course and all the travel we did while there: New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia....and we used to drive down to Bangor on Saturdays for a nice lunch at a good restaurant. Quite a round trip but you can understand, I'm sure.


Thoughtful:

No worries about McMoose burgers. I just meant they were adept at cooking it so you'd WANT to eat it. We enjoyed it on several occassions. Best was as sausage and teriyaki burger.

5095. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 1:50:16 PM

Thoughtful
That musta been fun to explain to the insurance co.

Wasn't insured...but it did make for interesting conversation when people stopped by over the years and asked what the hell happened to the jeep? (Displayed on the shed-side of the camp) Being over 110 miles from the nearest town that could do repairs..it more or less assumed it's "monumental" function out of practicality.

J@H

Haha...oh ya, I DO understand. Bangor the mecca of civilization for the North Country...and fron LAFB..indeed a good "day" trip.
Ever do the St John's river to any extent?

5096. christipeters - 8/2/2000 1:51:26 PM

Thoughtful - I like Canada Goose better than Mallard duck which always tasted dry to me. I sorta remember my Mom's duck recipe as I was amazed that she could stuff it with oranges and constantly baste it in wine and it still! tasted dry to me. However, I don't remember how she fixed Canada goose. If you like, I'll ask her how she prepared the goose and post the recipe.

5097. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 2:22:10 PM

Lab:

No, we went to St. Johns but didn't do too much river stuff. Except once, my husbands troops participated in the Aroostick Raft Regatta or some such thing.

We used to go to this neat little place called St. Andrews By The Sea for the weekend. We stayed once at the Algonquion, a huge old hotel out in the woods that was elegant as could be. We would go to Grand Falls a lot....once, we drove all the way up to the tip of the Gaspé pennisula (sp?) and I felt we'd left civilization far behind....

5098. Ronski - 8/2/2000 2:25:06 PM

I had heard that Canada Goose tasted pretty awful, from a man from India who, working in this country at a nearby medical center, had bagged one on the Bronx River Parkway in NY.

Perhaps it was an old bird.

5099. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 2:30:55 PM

Aroostook...Algoncquin...and "Gaspe" sounds good to me. Heard of it...can't, for the life of me, remember how it was spelled. Gasp!

5100. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 2:35:15 PM

Canadian geese make great roasts! The trick is to cook it covered real slow (225 / 2 hrs). 30 minutes at 325 (before uncovering and of course steady basting), then remove the cover and broil for 20 mins with frequent basting. Cover and turn heat down to about 200 and let sit for about 15-30 minutes. Voila! (Taste like chicken..heh-heh)

5101. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 2:37:59 PM

Oh...the water(juice)level should be about half-way up the body of the bird at the outset. During the broil period the juice level should be broiled back down to half way of the body. (Butter is NOT optional).

5102. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 2:38:17 PM

Well, I looked up "Gaspé" on the map of New Brunswick because I couldn't remember the name and was thinking GaspAR but I knew it had a little dash on the end. :-)

The other 2 I tried to spell phonetically and blew it big time on the river Aroostook....my apologies to the Mainer. Did you ever go to Calais?....I laughed when I heard it called "Cal-less" but saw the best looking sign for a little motel there: the Better Duck Inn painted on the body of a huge white duck who was being trailed by 5 little baby ducklings.

5103. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 2:44:11 PM

J@H

No apologies necessary. Lived there most of my life and still can't spell the majority of the Nesoudnahunks and Nahrihmakanta etc..

Yes it is funny how from away people bastardize town names like Calais, (pronounced Ca-lay'). Why take Bangor...Bang'-ah is the right way haha.

5104. PelleNilsson - 8/2/2000 4:50:25 PM

labwabbit

I can only conclude that the habits of the moose of Maine are different from those of Sweden.

5105. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 5:10:16 PM

Canada Goose sounds like a lot of work. I've never dressed a bird before and am not sure I want to start.

Besides, if it tastes like chicken.....

5106. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 5:12:49 PM

judithah, this must be the place, no?

5107. Ronski - 8/2/2000 5:15:36 PM

The picture of the red and sugar maples at the height of their glory was lovely.

5108. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 5:16:29 PM

Thoughtful!!! That's it!!! Thanks so much....it is truly a wonderful place.

5109. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 5:17:02 PM

Ronski:

They look just like the picture, too!

5110. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 5:17:26 PM

Ronski, -- yeah up there that was probably taken in July! If they say Maine has two season, Winter & July, what do you suppose NB has?

5111. labwabbit - 8/3/2000 12:53:06 AM

Pelle

I can only conclude that the habits of the moose of Maine are different from those of Sweden.

Well, I would think they have similar habits...perhaps its the area they have to roam in that dictates specifically honed survival habits.But I'll bet they don't taste like chicken either...

5112. Thoughtful - 8/3/2000 1:43:15 PM

Heck, even chicken don't taste like chicken any more!

Can't help but remember one of the old Bugs Bunny toons where Bugs gets drafted into the army and is told to dress the chickens for the officers dinner. Of course he has them all decked out in top hats and tails!

5113. CalGal - 8/3/2000 11:48:25 PM

I have some nice copper pans that were taking up room in my cupboards. I looked at them and realized that I should just hang them up somewhere.

So I took them out of the kitchen, cleaned them up, and there's just one problem now.

I keep tripping over them.

Because I can't find any convenient little gizmo to buy to hang up and hang them on, so they're still on the floor by the couch, where I left them when I cleaned them. Beds and Bath has nothing. Any suggestions?

5114. theDiva - 8/4/2000 7:06:41 AM

Jaysus.

5115. theDiva - 8/4/2000 7:24:42 AM

Here is one.

5116. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 7:48:20 AM

And here is something to put it up with.

5117. Thoughtful - 8/4/2000 8:42:39 AM

calgal, you can use anything that you want to hang pots off the ceiling....some people even get an old hunk of iron fencing and hang it up. No need to spend a lot of money -- only need to think creatively -- and make sure you don't have low ceilings!

5118. CalGal - 8/4/2000 9:29:12 AM

Pelle,

I have my power screwdriver, which is the greatest invention in the world, I think.

Deev,

That is from the ceiling. Can't you get the kind that hang on the wall? I thought it would be very simple to find in a store, but can't yet.

Thoughtful,

I am nesting-impaired, so it needs to be pretty simple.

5119. bubbaette - 8/4/2000 9:32:06 AM

In the past, I've just hung the pots and pans from nails.

5120. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 9:33:58 AM

A power screwdriver is indeed a great thing for wood. In our apartment, the ceiling and walls are concrete and one needs one of those? Is hammer drill the correct term in English? It vibrates as it drills.

5121. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 9:34:37 AM

Delete first question mark.

5122. glendajean - 8/4/2000 9:51:25 AM

Pelle -- is concrete common in Sweden for interior walls in residences? Here, walls are usually plaster (for older homes & apts)or drywall, a compacted, chalky substance covered in a thick paper.

5123. bubbaette - 8/4/2000 9:57:29 AM

Pelle

Hilti Gun? The have a little gun powder charge and will drive a nail in concrete.

5124. glendajean - 8/4/2000 9:59:21 AM

Of course, I left out cheap paneling. What's a mobile home without it.

5125. JudithAtHome - 8/4/2000 10:07:23 AM

CalGal:

Go to the hardware store and get some decorative wall hooks....place them at intervals on one wall and hang the pans....you can go from ceiling all the way down to almost the floor, just put them in an appealing arrangement. Or you could find an old iron gate from a flea market and hang it against the wall, hang the pots all over it.

Maybe the iron gate is a little too Shabby Chic for your taste, though. You can also buy a louvered panel, like folding closet doors are made from, and lean it against a wall, add hooks, and viola!

5126. Thoughtful - 8/4/2000 10:10:29 AM

Pelle, hammer drill is the correct term. However, for home applications, we don't normally resort to such things, going a little more slowly but successfully with concrete drills with carbide tips which are designed to go through concrete, plaster and such. Then we use plastic wall anchors which allow screws to be screwed in securely.

5127. CalGal - 8/4/2000 10:11:40 AM

So there's not just some rack like Diva linked in, except for on a wall? That seems to have so much less decision time associated with it.

But barring that, I certainly hadn't thought of individual hooks. I can do that, I think.

5128. JudithAtHome - 8/4/2000 10:20:35 AM

CAl:

There are things for the wall, they are curved out and look very nice. I've sold 2 in the past year...I found mine at estate sales but I'm sure any kitchen specialty stores would have them.

5129. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 12:33:06 PM

glenda

Apartment buildings here are made of reinforced concrete. The inner walls are part of the load-bearing structure, so they are of concrete too, except sub-divisions for bathrooms, wardrobes and so on. They are usually of some kind of gypsum board (perhaps the same as your "plaster"?) which is a hopeless material to put things up on.

(Ah, sentence ended with a preposition, I like to break that particular rule, which I've never understood the importance of.)

Things are so much better in the summer cottage which is made of timebr. There all you need is a hammer and a three-inch nail.

5130. glendajean - 8/4/2000 5:22:16 PM

Plaster is a compound or mixture that is applied wet onto the wall and then allowed to dry. In 18th and 19th century houses, moldings were also made out of plaster. My house in DC had plaster walls, and it was a pain to hang anything on the wall. If I wasn't careful, I could chip and crack a large area. Drywall allows for light hanging, but anything heavy requires finding a stud (the wooden posts that the drywall is attached to at intervals) or using toggle bolts.

The other negative about plaster walls is that if there is any moisture along the outside of the wall, it can affect the plaster, causing it to bubble. I got pretty good at patching plaster before we moved (for the cracks), but wasn't any good at all at the smoothing out of new plaster over large sections. My repairman described this as like putting frosting on a cake.

You know much more about this than I, but I was just explaining American terms.

Concrete walls are quite rare in the States. Is the concrete solid mass, or cement blocks laid like brick?

5131. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 5:46:33 PM

Plaster walls are killers. When we lived in Arab countries they usually had those and we had to pay for the replastering of almost every apartment we lived.

The walls are solid concrete. What is then the supporting structure in American apartment buildings? Some kind of steel skeleton?

Villas here are mostly built with a wooden frame, even if the exterior is bricks.

5132. CalGal - 8/4/2000 5:47:17 PM

Really? I'm nearly sure that when I lived in Saudi Arabia the walls were always concrete. I'll have to check with my mom.

5133. glendajean - 8/4/2000 6:03:30 PM

Pelle -- in apartment buildings that are 3 stories or less, the walls are wood framed with drywall. In high rises, they use aluminum frames and drywall. If somebody else is better versed in this, dive in.

5134. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 6:07:19 PM

CalGal

I wasn't very clear. Yes, concrete, but with plaster on top.

5135. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 6:15:24 PM

glenda

This could be described as wood framed with drywall. Is that how they look.

5136. SnowOwl - 8/4/2000 6:21:35 PM

How quaint. Is that somewhere in Sweden, Pelle?

5137. stostosto - 8/4/2000 6:23:17 PM

SnowOwl
It's in the German town Goslar: Hotel zur Börse.

5138. SnowOwl - 8/4/2000 6:28:40 PM

Ah, thanks sto. I'll be in Sweden in February, so I was interested in case it was a place I should put on my "must see" list. In fact, it does show the influence of the Hanseatic League and I remember seeing similar places in Rotterdam.

5139. CalGal - 8/4/2000 6:29:09 PM

Snow! I'm glad to see you.

5140. SnowOwl - 8/4/2000 6:31:42 PM

Cal!

It's great to see you again. I've missed this place recently, but life has been kicking me in the teeth and I haven't had much time for the pleasures of the Internet.

5141. CalGal - 8/4/2000 6:32:37 PM

Well, I've been worried. I hope all is okay. Check out the discussion in Internet Life on our anniversary, if you have time.

5142. SnowOwl - 8/4/2000 6:37:00 PM

Everything's fine now. There's just been some problems with my mother who lives at the other end of the country. She's broken her hip and while in hospital was diagnosed with early stage dementia, so can no longer live by herself. There's been a lot of coming and going trying to find suitable accomodation for her. The main burden of the work has fallen on my sisters who live near to Mum, but I've had to make several flying trips up to help get things sorted out.

I'll check Internet Life.

5143. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 7:18:12 PM

SnowOwl

So nice to see you!

And sto didn't know just like that. He clicked on "View page source", I'm sure. There are thousands of houses that look roughly like that in Germany.

In Denmark and the south of Sweden (ex-Denmark) there are similar houses:



They consist of a wooden frame with mud mixed with straw as filler between the beams.

5144. stostosto - 8/4/2000 7:31:17 PM

shhh, Pelle!
You are giving me away!

Those houses are called "bindingsværkshuse" which my dictionary renders as half-timbered houses.

I actually live in such a house. Or perhaps it's only a semi-half-timbered house, since it was built in the 1930s as a nostalgic harkening-back to the style of yore, if highly unorthodoxly so, and was subsequently enlarged in the 50s.

I once posted a picture of it, here it is again:

5145. Uzmakk - 8/5/2000 4:04:31 PM

Hello Sto and all gardeners:

My question-- Is there a best time to transplant oriental lilies?

5146. Uzmakk - 8/5/2000 4:06:28 PM

Cozy looking house, btw. Cozy is best.

5147. bubbaette - 8/7/2000 1:28:13 PM

helpful hint for those who want to kill grass along a fenceline organically: when I was done canning last weekend, I emptied the canner full of boiling water along the fence line. It worked like a charm.

5148. DaveM - 8/7/2000 1:34:32 PM

Bubb -

Do you think it was the heat or the chemicals in the canning process that killed the grass?

5149. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 2:14:07 PM

Dave

Canning has nothing to do with chemicals. The cans are put into a canner filled with water and pasteurized at a high temperature. I believe modern canners are of the pressurized type.

Read all about it here.

5150. bubbaette - 8/7/2000 2:19:43 PM

I do plain ol hot water bath canning that uses just boiling water. I don't do pressure cookers as I'm afraid of them. In the past I let the water cool after canning and them used it to water my garden. But with all the rain we've been having, I've just been pouring the boiling water along the fence line.

5151. DaveM - 8/7/2000 2:20:44 PM

Thanks Pelle - I was thinking of pickling. Shows how much I know.

5152. bubbaette - 8/7/2000 2:25:11 PM

Cool site on canning, Pelle. I've book marked it for future reference. Thanks

5153. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 2:27:49 PM

Pelle, just to make sure things are straight, the picture you posted is not what we in the states call dry wall and wood frame. Rather, the wood frame is usually 2x4 wood beams or 2x6 or even 2x10 for floors or ceiling joists. These then are covered with plywood or OSB (oriented strand board which is masses of thin wood chips laid in various directions, glued together under tremendous heat & pressure to create a very strong product) on the outside. Then any of various kinds of siding will be applied -- shingles, clapborads, vinyl, brick face, stucco, etc.

Inside the walls and ceilings are usually covered with sheet rock or gypsum board or dry wall -- all the same name for a gypsum based product with heavy paper coating on both sides. These are usually screwed to the 2x4s and then the seams are taped and covered with compound to yield a smooth wall. The walls can then be finished as desired with paint, wall paper, whatever.

The finished building typically has none of the structural wood showing at all.

5154. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 2:30:59 PM

Due to the increased difficulty in getting quality wood products and due to environmental sensitivity, more construction is going to steel-frame. This is frequently used in commercial applications, but more residential is being done with it. It offers added advantages like insect and rot resistance, and strength. However, many residential contractors are uncomfortable working with it so its spread has been slow. Also, natural product exteriors are not recommended for steel frame construction due to expansion differences.

5155. glendajean - 8/7/2000 2:45:45 PM

Uz -- re: transplanting oriental lilies

I would assume that the best time to divide and/or move them would be in early fall, certainly the period AFTER they have bloomed. If you do it in the spring time, you risk screwing up the plant's blooming cycle. My experience with orientals is limited. I had planted some in DC garden last year.

I'll look it up tonight.

Thoughtful -- well said

Pelle -- I was speaking of interior plastered walls with the framing hidden beneath the plastor. In the US, the wood frame and plaster exterior is usually called "Tudor," (after English houses during the Tudor era). This type of design was very popular in the early 20th century. A large second story overhang was usually wood framed with plaster and the rest of the house was built with red brick.

5156. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 3:07:23 PM

Of course, it's hard to generalize across the States as it is such a large area with such geographic diversity. Local building materials may differ substantially as there is an economic incentive to use what's available locally. So you will see a lot more brick houses in the south due to the availability of clay products and insect resistance. You will see more steeply pitched rooves in the snow country to avoid collapsing under the weight of snow. You will see adobe construction in the southwest, and more frequent use of redwood on the west coast.

5157. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 3:12:36 PM

Down in south Fla and other low-lying areas there are no basements due to high water table. However, up North most houses have basements as it keeps the homes warmer in the winter.

Then of course as the US has such a diverse ethnic background, you will see as many different styles of homes as you will people. Tudor as Gj suggests, mediterranean, colonial to A-frames to French chalet-type castles. They're all here somewhere as are tee-pees, igloos, and geodesic domes and underground houses. Poured concrete to rammed earth...no shortage of imagination here.

5158. Uzmakk - 8/7/2000 3:15:13 PM

Thanks GJ. I will wait for a month or so.

5159. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 3:17:35 PM

I have a recurring nightmare that hits every time I spend a day or more working on a big project...for example, when we cleaned and scrubbed and rearranged the basement so it actually looked nice, the next a.m. I always check to make sure the gremlins didn't put it all back the way it was so I'd have to do all that work over again. Sort of Sisyphusian.

I realized yesterday that that's why I dislike gardening so much. You can spend hours weeding -- as I did yesterday, as my hamstrings will attest to today -- only to go back a week later and have to do it all again! It's my nightmare come to life!

5160. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 3:26:55 PM

Thanks Thoughtful and glenda. I suppose building techniques has much to do with the availablity and cost of materials. Here we have abundance of calcium (=concrete) and wood. But after disastrous fires at the end of the 19th century wood is prohibited in multi-storey buildings.

5161. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 3:27:36 PM

Thanks Thoughtful and glenda. I suppose building techniques has much to do with the availablity and cost of materials. Here we have abundance of calcium (=concrete) and wood. But after disastrous fires at the end of the 19th century wood is prohibited in multi-storey buildings.

5162. glendajean - 8/7/2000 3:32:48 PM

Thoughtful -- Consistent weeding, particularly in the spring, along with the use of mulch, will allow you to see benefit from your efforts. One good growing season of constant weeding (and it's easier to do in small spurts) will pay off the next year.

Unless, of course, you, like me, have moved to a new place, and are afraid of a) killing or uprooting something that should stay, and b) poison ivy.

5163. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 3:43:42 PM

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work in my case. We have a large rock garden. The lower level has some nice plants in it and that's what I usually get to weed. It's a pain to keep up with, but we usually manage it. However, this year, with all the rain we've had, the weeds have been growing like crazy and we haven't had a dry enough weekend to get out there until yesterday. I spent 4 hours out there weeding and didn't get it all done.

The upper level had a large maple in the middle of it and I let the whole area around the tree spread with lily of the valley. Great shade ground cover and dense enough to choke out most weeds and grass. A few clumps of other things like day lilies made it in there, but it was largely no care....just the way I like it.

This spring, the tree came down. The plants on top got pretty well trounced and now it's getting almost full-day sun. The lily of the valley is shriveling badly and the weeds have moved in in abundance. The ground is very rough as it's full of tree roots yet. I hate to pull all the weeds and leave bare earth -- I think the weeds help to work and maintain whatever soil there is up there. Until I can figure out what to plant, I'm leaving most of it as is -- pulling out the obvious and most noxious weeds. Still the other stuff keeps spreading and seeding itself in the rest of the rock garden....hubby's ready to get a back hoe in, level the thing and plant grass. I'm not quite there yet, but if I don't do something with the top this fall, I may join him in his sentiment.

5164. glendajean - 8/7/2000 3:57:49 PM

Thoughtful, rock gardens are high maintenance, as you attest.

You might want to look at products like Preen. Supposedly, if you work it in after weeding, it will help retard future weed growth.

5165. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 4:02:51 PM

There's a weed that I'm letting grow up there - I can't remember the name, but it has tiny pink flowers on it -- it seems to be taking over the top. There's another plant that reminds me of a sedum in that the leaves and stem seem water soaked like a sedum. It spreads like mad and is very pale green with yellow-ish blooms on the end -- not really blooms as it's very small, but it's whatever it does that's the equivalent of blooming. I also have cypress spurge. I've had to weed this stuff out as it was completely covering my irises and I know their risomes need sunlight to bloom....so even the non-weed things seem to need weeding.

Also this year my day lilies are really shot. They've been in the same spot since before we moved in 20+ years ago. The deer top them early in the spring and I think it's really finally taking its toll. I think I'll rip them all out, amend the soil and replant. Hopefully that'll help them recover for next year. I like them as they too are such low maintenance.

5166. bubbaette - 8/7/2000 4:07:16 PM

Corn gluten is much the same as Preen, but much cheaper. Corn gluten is basically corn meal without the germ. I've worked plain old corn meal into the soil and it worked fine. But don't use it where you're trying to germinate anything.

5167. glendajean - 8/7/2000 4:19:20 PM

Great suggestion, Bubbaette -- I'm going to try that.

5168. thoughtful - 8/7/2000 6:27:14 PM

The weed that seems to be very happy in the top part of my rock garden is called smartweed.

5169. glendajean - 8/8/2000 10:49:09 AM

Thoughtful -- your smartweed grows along Rock Creek Park in DC. I never could get anybody to identify it for me. Thanks.

Bubbaette -- talk to us more about your corn gluten use. How do you apply it, when. Do you use it with perennials or only vegetable plants? It retards germination, but does it affect growth of young plants?

5170. Thoughtful - 8/8/2000 11:35:59 AM

Actually I found this to be a great web site -- I found lots of plants I recognize but never knew the names of. Also has a nice section on maples -- I can recognize them but don't know which is which. This site helps.

5171. glendajean - 8/9/2000 2:26:34 PM

It's the middle of August, time to be thinking about dividing bearded irises. Split up the rhyzomes (sp?), keeping some green attached to each new part, cut off and throw away the rotted out parts, trim the fronds back to half and re-plant, only covering the rhyzomes halfway (in other words, leave the top part of the rhyzome uncovered). Make sure that you are planting in a spot that gets good sunlight and in soil that is not marshy or constantly damp.

5172. Thoughtful - 8/10/2000 8:58:35 AM

Excellent gj! When I was doing all that weeding this past weekend, I thought it might be time to handle these puppies. Hubby's been complaining as the irises have spread out of the rock garden border into the lawn. I've been reluctant to move them as they are doing so well, but I guess it's time and I must.

Is now a good time to attack the bed of day lilies too? They really look ill. I'd like to do it when I have the best chance for blooming again next year, so I thought maybe now through fall?

5173. bubbaette - 8/10/2000 9:32:29 AM

Bubbaette -- talk to us more about your corn gluten use. How do you
apply it, when. Do you use it with perennials or only vegetable plants? It retards germination, but does it affect growth of young plants?

I use it after I plant sets in the spring -- just rake it into the soil. It retards germination but has no ill effects on already started plants and works with vegetables and flowers. I have a friend who rakes it in periodically throughout the summer and has good results with it. I mulch with straw instead.

5174. glendajean - 8/10/2000 10:12:47 AM

Bubbaette -- where do you get your straw (and thank you for the gluten update and for answering a request you probably don't hear much).

Thoughtful --if you part of the world is cool between now and late fall, and your day lilies are finished flowering, go ahead and divide them now. If it is currently hot temps where you live, wait till it gets a little cooler.

I love planting in the fall because it gives the plants a leg up, so to speak, on developing root system before next summer's heat. This is particularly true for southern climates.

Isn't it getting close to the time Snow Owl started talking to us about her anticipation of spring bulbs in New Zealand? Snow Owl, come back!

5175. glendajean - 8/10/2000 10:16:53 AM

We do the irises early because if one waits till fall, it will disturb the flower production resulting in no blooms next year.

Irises often don't bloom as profusely the next year, but dividing every two to three years makes them healthier and gives you investment return on your original purchase.

Irises are also one of the best plants to hand down from generation to generation. How many times do you hear, "these belonged to my grandmother (or aunt or old neighbor)."

In Central Texas, common flags (slightly smaller stalks than the bearded ones, in colors of white, yellow or purple)are naturalized everywhere. I saw some flags in DC, but not in Indy. I guess zone 5 is too cold for them.

5176. bubbaette - 8/10/2000 10:19:03 AM

GJ

I get it at Lowes or at Southern States. There are always a few grass seeds in straw that seed themselves, but the mulch keeps that ground moist enough that they practically pull themselves.

5177. Ronski - 8/10/2000 10:45:06 AM

I planted some blue flag wild irises, the variety native to the Northeast, around my property, including adjacent to an occasional stream by the road. Where deer did not tread, they did quite well. I also planted some Louisiana iris, which are hybirds of native varieties including NE blue flag, the Texas variety glendajean mentions (I'm pretty sure), and iris fulva, or red iris, which is native to the Mississippi Valley area and is the reddest iris to be found in the world. These did not bloom the first year, but I suspect they will next year.

5178. Thoughtful - 8/10/2000 10:46:42 AM

When we had a veggie garden, we mulched with grass clippings from the lawn. Dad still uses it in his garden. We found the clippings much easier to lay neatly and densely than the longer stuff. When hubby used to sickle-mow the fields, we'd still go over the stuff with a mower to get it down to a neat size.

Somehow grass clipping in a flower bed just don't sit well with me. I've seen other mulch like barley hulls or cocoa hulls used to good effect, but not hay/grass.

Our tomatoes have really gone crazy. The plants have been tied up to an overhead rail and are over 6' high. This is nuts. We have a few tomatoes on them, but they aren't green yet. We've had so much rain and clouds, it's ridiculous. The other day was so cold and wet and it got dark about 5 p.m....someone said did we go through a timewarp and end up in November? Not good ripening weather.

5179. Ronski - 8/10/2000 11:09:31 AM

I liked the smell of the cocoa hulls when I used them once, but they seemed to get a nasty white mold eventually.

5180. Thoughtful - 8/10/2000 11:58:38 AM

I mean they aren't red yet -- the tomatoes, that is.

5181. Ronski - 8/10/2000 1:51:40 PM

I want to remind all the North Americans here that it is Perseid Meteor Shower time. I saw a beautiful one from our deck Sunday night. Keep watching the skies!

5182. PelleNilsson - 8/10/2000 2:42:07 PM

cmboyce

I found my original post re the Arctic Loon here.

5183. cmboyce - 8/10/2000 10:51:31 PM

I hate to say it, Pelle, but it didn't work. I got a screen with a blank box at the top with the name of the sponsor, two lines of apparently linked text ("send this to a friend" and "let me know what you think" or something like that), two lines of text reading "Here one is supposed to type something" and "Here one is supposed to type something else" (very nice!) and in the lower left hand corner, the squawk box. But the whole thing was frozen—the globe wasn't turning (but was there), and the cursor would not respond to clicking, anywhere, on or off the screen. Then, part by part, it was wiped, from top to bottom. Then it came back, all but the squawk box. The cursor remained ineffective. After a while I got an error message telling me I had to turn the machine off and start over (a fairly frequent phenomenon hereabouts, but never on-line before). This happened twice. Then I gave up.

So, I missed it again. Unless you just feel like fucking with it, for the techies' thrill of fucking with it, please don't fuck with it. I'm quite satisfied to know that it was there; it's like knowing about conceptual art.

5184. arkymalarky - 8/10/2000 11:39:45 PM

I heard it!

Interesting evening out here. We have a huge owl which hunts out of our largest oak at night, and has actually landed in the yard before sundown with us right on the porch (haven't seen the hawks for the summer--maybe the birds work in shifts). He calls from the trees and flies from one to the other and is just very cool to watch. We were intent on him when Diva and Sasha (known to us when they're together as Mutt and Jeff) began barking at something under the tree. There was barely enough light to see that it was a snake, and we got the flashlight and a shovel and saw it was a copperhead, which Bob killed. It was right where we stroll in the yard, close to the house.

5185. PelleNilsson - 8/11/2000 1:59:44 AM

cm

Sorry about the troubles. Others have heard it so it may be a browser thing. Later today I'll try to link it directly as a .wav file.

5186. PelleNilsson - 8/11/2000 7:51:26 AM

cm

The Loon as a .mp3 file (637 KB). When you click on the link a new window opens and you have to click again to download. If you don't have an MP3 player and you are on a PC you can download Mediaplayer. If you are on a Mac I leave you to your own devices.

If none of these paths are open to you and you have a desperate, almost loony, craving to hear the loon you can download the .wav file. It is 7 MB.

5187. SnowOwl - 8/13/2000 5:49:44 AM

glendajean

How nice of you to remember. We've been having a very peculiar winter this year. In my part of the country it's been exceptionally mild and dry. In fact temperatures reached 20C on a couple of days last week, which is a reasonably warm day for us in summer. As a result the gardens have got a litle confused, and there are many things blooming already. My roses have had no real period of dormancy this year. All of the violets in the garden are flowering and filling the air with their lovely perfume. My snowdrops are almost finished and I have a number of daffodils out now, especially my favourite miniature varieties. There are blossoms on the plum and flowering cherry trees and the first of the rhododendrons is in full bloom.

Unfortunately, there's been an abrupt change in the weather over the weekend. We had strong gale force winds today which have sent the blossoms flying off the trees and the temperatures have plummetted. There's heavy snow in some parts of my province, although it hasn't reached my town yet.

Last year we also had a very mild winter, which was followed by a lousy summer. I hope we don't follow the same pattern this year. I much prefer my foul weather at the time I expect it, not when we should be soaking up warm sunshine.

5188. PelleNilsson - 8/13/2000 6:06:44 AM

Hello SnowOwl

I see that NZ occupies about the same latitudes in the south hemisphere as North Africa, Italy and Spain in the north. So what is the deciding factor for your weather? Ocean currents?

5189. SnowOwl - 8/13/2000 4:23:01 PM

Pelle

I'm no climatologist but I understand that one of the major factors in our weather patterns is that there is no land mass between us and the Antarctic. The pattern of prevailing winds means that a lot of cold, wet air is dragged up from the southern oceans and there is no land between to break it up.

Dunedin (the city in which I live) is situated at 45 south. I can't find my map to work out where the equivalent northern latitude runs. It is a lot warmer in more northern parts of the country and a lot wetter on the west coast. We visited Milford Sound a couple of weeks ago (a place described by Rudyard Kipling as the eighth wonder of the world) and that's located in an area which has one of the highest average annual rainfall rates in the world. Luckily there's a mountain range between there and here so we're spared most of the rain from that direction.

5190. SnowOwl - 8/13/2000 4:28:10 PM

Pelle,

Further to the subject of weather my son's wedding plans are now confirmed. He is getting married on February 10. Plans seem to be well in hand and I can't say I like the sound of them very much. He tells us that we will be frdriven in a minivan om Stockholm to Junsele (7 hours?) and will stay in cabins there. He seems to think it's all going to be great fun, but I'm quaking in my shoes at the thought of Sweden in winter, sleigh rides notwithstanding.

5191. PelleNilsson - 8/14/2000 3:22:33 AM

SnowOwl

45 degrees north runs through northern Italy.

This may be one of the cabins:


I don't think you have to worry too much about the weather. If it is really cold (-20C or so) it is by definition also clear, calm and dry.

5192. glendajean - 8/14/2000 10:13:02 AM

Snow Owl, indeed, welcome. I hope that you keep us updated on the Southern Hemisphere happenings as we roll into the end of our summer.

Like clockwork, my grape hyacith has started sending up little shoots.

5193. cmboyce - 8/14/2000 10:25:50 AM

Pelle, thanks very much for the loon, even though, MP3-less, on a Mac and without any "devices" to speak of, I can't hear it. N'less, internally, the north beckons in the loon call.

5194. Ronski - 8/14/2000 12:20:32 PM

Land masses and water do of course influence the weather in numerous ways. One theory as to why the Earth is currently in the period of the Ice Ages (we are in one of the lulls) is this: The sliding of the Indian subcontinent into Eurasia, creating the Himalayas, and the joining of North and South America, largely separating the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, formed impediments to water and air flow which makes the Earth much cooler than it would be otherwise.

5195. PelleNilsson - 8/14/2000 4:15:22 PM

A main course of guinea hen (pintade) stuffed with rosemary, fennel, dried tomatoes and black olives was a pure delight in flavor and presentation. The poultry was prepared in the most traditional of ways - en vessie: wrapped in a pig's bladder and poached in chicken stock, making for a moist, fragrant bird

5196. glendajean - 8/14/2000 4:20:22 PM

Pelle -- please explain.

5197. PelleNilsson - 8/14/2000 4:30:26 PM

Patricia Wells reviewing a dinner at Restaurant Pic in the Lyon region. A while ago we had a mini-competition in Stories re flowery descriptions of meals. Maybe I should have posted there.

5198. glendajean - 8/14/2000 4:37:07 PM

No, I'm glad you posted here. I just didn't catch the "context."

5199. glendajean - 8/15/2000 4:47:20 PM

I have two gardening jobs. One is a slope and small yard in front of a Victorian church in Georgetown (back in DC), and one is a brick Georgian two story house in Indy (talk about switcheroo on type and location).

Both have slopes (the properties are above street level and the slopes connect down to the sidewalks, slopes of about 3-4 feet). The church has accepted that their slope needs plants. The homeowner is wary of plants and groundcover It's far enough from the house to be out of sight and thus susceptible to less maintenance.

Still, mowing that slope has got to be a bitch.

Both are in full sun and will need plants that are water tolerant. I'm thinking of lavendar, dianthus, purple coneflower, day lilies, spirea, with forsythia and some type of evergreen on the ends. (for the church).

There was an article in Sunday's NY TImes "Cuttings" column about sedges that make decent ground cover.

5200. cmboyce - 8/16/2000 9:52:12 AM

Mmmmmm! Both Pelle's hen and glendajean's ante-narthex sound delicious!

5201. Ronski - 8/16/2000 10:51:41 AM

We are now running at rainfall 200 percent above normal for the season.

The marigolds are rotting.

Granted, they are Mexican natives and love the sun, but I have never seen them rot before. I probably planted them too close together in some spots.

5202. Thoughtful - 8/16/2000 1:17:40 PM

Ronski, as you know, I can relate to the rain.

Seems like every year there is a ubiquitous flower. This year, everywhere I go I see masses of black-eyed susans blooming everywhere. All of a sudden everyone seems to have them....was there a big sale that I missed? They might be just what I need for the top of my rock garden -- the one that's covered with smartweed right now.

5203. Ronski - 8/16/2000 1:23:02 PM

I think the black-eyed susan craze is the result of very successful efforts by breeders. The popular varieties sold now are very hardy, bloom continuously, and are pest-free. I see them everywhere in the NE now, used where foundation-type evergreens used to be placed, or placed near evergreens and such.

5204. Thoughtful - 8/16/2000 4:18:00 PM

ronski, are they annuals that will reseed themselves or are they perennials, or will I be planting every year.

5205. glendajean - 8/16/2000 4:21:02 PM

Rubeckia has become the new old reliable, much like purple coneflower.

5206. glendajean - 8/16/2000 4:37:15 PM

Thoughtful -- they're perennials. They re-seed.

5207. Thoughtful - 8/17/2000 9:55:07 AM

glendaj, those are two separate events. Reseeding in not necessarily perennial. Are you saying they do both?

5208. glendajean - 8/17/2000 10:12:55 AM

Yes.

5209. Ronski - 8/17/2000 10:14:17 AM

They do both, as a rule.

5210. glendajean - 8/17/2000 10:14:23 AM

Unless, of course, the freeze zone in your region is so cold that it would kill them. I don't know their hardiness, but everywhere that I've lived, they freeze back and return in the fall. They often spread by re-seeding, too. Same as purple coneflowers.

5211. glendajean - 8/17/2000 10:14:59 AM

Lambs Ear (stachys byzantium) do the same thing.

5212. Thoughtful - 8/17/2000 10:48:07 AM

when you buy the black-eyed susies, are they seeds? plants? or either? I'm assuming they are drought resistant. As I've said many times, I need real roadside plants that can take a lot of abuse.

5213. Thoughtful - 8/17/2000 10:52:35 AM

Lambs ear we have growing wild -- the plant itself is interesting only because of the fuzziness, but the blossom color is pretty spectacular. Another roadside plant that we are not allowed to pick because of its endangered status is butterfly weed. The color there too is spectacular -- is that something that's available for purchase do you know?

5214. Thoughtful - 8/17/2000 11:00:36 AM

butterfly weed

lamb's ear but this is not the one I was thinking of....we have one that the fuzzy leaves stay close to the ground and then it shoots up a fairly tall shoot with occasional blossoms along the stem -- blossoms are fairly flat, about an inch in diameter, and in the most spectacular shade -- a little bluer than a royal purple.

5215. Ronski - 8/17/2000 11:05:21 AM

Butterfly weed is one of my three thousand favorites! It does indeed attract butterflies by the zillions. Plants are available at nurseries more and more, and more readily through the usual catalogs. There is a strain available from seed that has been bred beyond the usual orange to include red and yellow shades. I have one blooming now that is a very soft orange-salmon color.

They are impossible to transplant if dug out of a field, for they have very long and very sensitive taproots. This makes even transplanting from a nursery source a little tricky, but it is worth the try.

They are relatives of the common milkweed that comes in a dusky pink color and an alba (off-white) form.

5216. glendajean - 8/17/2000 11:22:10 AM

Thoughtful -- you can buy rubeckia at almost any nursery. I'd suggest gallon pots.

I rip off the Lambs Ear stalks because it helps to keep the plants more compact. It's a judgment call on my part, but I don't think the tiny blooms are worthy enough for the seeds they produce and spred over the garden.

5217. Ronski - 8/17/2000 2:40:29 PM

The butterfly weed cultivar in different colors I was thinking of is called "gay butterflies."

Now how could I forget a name like that.

There is also a yellow cultivar called "Hello Yellow."



This weekend, they are predicting record low temps in the NE for Sunday night.

5218. glendajean - 8/17/2000 2:44:11 PM

Ronski - like the purple pipe brush-like Liatris, or gayfeather.

5219. PelleNilsson - 8/17/2000 5:29:13 PM

Today is the third Thursday of August, a day of some importance around here, especially in the north, because it marks the release of this year's crop of rotten herring.

It is not really rotten, you know, it just smells that way. It's actually fermented.

5220. janjon - 8/17/2000 5:32:42 PM

What do you mean, the release of this year's crop of it-ain't-rotten-it-just-smells-that-way herring. Release to whom. For what purposes.

5221. PelleNilsson - 8/17/2000 5:43:04 PM

To the public.

For the eating of it. This weekend will be a smelly one.

5222. glendajean - 8/17/2000 5:53:55 PM

Aha. Possibly the source of PE's colorful anti-Scandinavian descriptions.

5223. Ronski - 8/17/2000 5:56:36 PM

Thank God. I thought there might be some sort of environmental warfare breaking out in Scandinavia.

5224. janjon - 8/17/2000 5:59:41 PM

I suspect that those herring create their own form of environmental warfare.

5225. PelleNilsson - 8/17/2000 6:01:42 PM

Further clarification:

The herrings are caught in May, just before the spawning season when they are fat, jolly and roe-filled (the lady herrings, that is) and are then subjected to "the treatment" and finally canned for distribution to the shops today.

Tomorrow I'll see if I can find some source on the nature of the treatment and perhaps a pic.

5226. janjon - 8/17/2000 6:04:53 PM

By all means, pelle. In color, please. And, make sure that we get to see the fermentation process in its various stages.

Yum.

5227. Ronski - 8/17/2000 6:10:56 PM

Pelle,

I am something of a herringista, a few times removed. Being partly of North German (Low German) extraction, pickled herring was always around at family gatherings (on my Mother's side), especially during the Christmas holidays. We always ate herring salad (made with herring, sour cream, beets, potatoes, celery, and walnuts) for good luck on New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. Is that a Swedish custom, too, the good luck thing?

5228. Ronski - 8/17/2000 6:12:57 PM

(Incidentally, I practically forced my partner to try some last New Year's. Even though he is one-quarter Danish, it took some time for him to get it down.)

5229. DanDillon - 8/17/2000 8:04:06 PM

Anne and I moved into our new house two weeks ago. It's brand new construction that we customized from an existing plan. And it's a beaut. Now that we're down to a single layer of boxes (there is no box stacked on top of any other), the end of unpacking is in sight. Amazing how we've accumulated so much stuff in such a short time. We're very comfortable here. And yes, one room has been designated "the library." A dream of mine.

5230. Ronski - 8/17/2000 8:20:45 PM

Major congratulations!

(I still have unpacked boxes from our move a year and a half ago.)

It is such a delight to be in a home you really love.

5231. arkymalarky - 8/17/2000 8:31:47 PM

Oooh, that's great, Dan! I'd love to read a description if you get time.

5232. jonesatlaw - 8/17/2000 9:08:05 PM

Dan- if you are prone to pack-ratism (I am a terminal case) you might consider this advice. If after one year in your new place you have packed boxes, take them to the Goodwill, St. Vincent dePaul or what have you and give them away. IF you are a sentimentalist like myself, you probably should look in each boz to see what it is. IF you aren't don't look at all.

5233. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:23:09 AM

Here is an American personal home page with a good concise description of surströmming. I might add that the potatos served with it are not just any old potatos but a rather small oblong variety that only grows in the north of Sweden (short growing season, much light required). They are always served unpeeled. The herrings are always served straight out of the can.

I have not been able to find any picture of the preparation process. The beheaded but ungutted herrings are put in barrels in a strong brine for a few days. The brine is then changed to a less salty one, which will allow fermentation. The barrels are left outside in the sun until the process starts. They are then stored in 15C (60F) for eight weeks before the herrings (still ungutted) are canned. The fermentation continues (at a lower rate) after canning. One has to be careful when opening so one doesn't get sprayed all over. The preferred method is to hold the can under water when puncturing it.

Here is a guy in anticipatory mode.

5234. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 7:09:39 AM

Some historical notes to go with the above.

Before the advent of pasteurization and other treatment procedures, the main methods for preserving foodstuff were salting, smoking and drying. Salting is by far the most convenient. You slaughter your pig, chop it up into pieces which you drop into a barrel of brine, and there you are.

Therefore, salt was an important, even vital commodity. Sweden has no domestic sources of salt. The nearest deposits are in Germany and Poland. From the 13th to the late 16th century, trade in the Baltic area was dominated by the Hanseatic League (the Hansa), a loose federation of mostly German cities which, while competing with each other in some respects, acted collectively when it came to trade policies and the dealing with nation states.

In the political turbulance during and following Sweden's exit in 1521 from the union with Denmark and Norway, the Hansa mainly supported Sweden and extended a lot of credit.Repayment was slow and in the 1540's the Hansa, as an encouragement to pay, sharply reduced shipments of salt.

The result was of course that prices went up. Hence the low-salt brine used to produce surströmming. A classical example of necessity turned into virtue.

The debt was eventually repaid, mostly by gold and silver seized from the church after the reformation. It all hangs together: national independence, trade policy, religious issues - and surströmming.

5235. bubbaette - 8/18/2000 8:32:34 AM

" if you are prone to pack-ratism (I am a terminal case) you might
consider this advice. If after one year in your new place you have
packed boxes, take them to the Goodwill, St. Vincent dePaul or what
have you and give them away. "

Good advice. I have a whole room full of stuff that we dragged down from the attic when the new blower for our heat pump was installed. Some of them are boxes that haven't been unpacked since two moves ago.
Most of it's going to the Salvation but I still feel compelled to pick through it.

5236. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 8:46:32 AM

Ronski

We eat herring the year around. My wife and I often have a soft-boiled egg and a small portion of pickled herring for Sunday breakfast. The "herring table" is an essential part of the smorgasbord.

If any day is specifically associated with herring, it is Midsummer's Eve. A typical lunch or early dinner, preferrably served in the open, is pickled herring with sour cream, chives and new potatoes followed by strawberries and fresh cream. It is essential that the potatoes and strawberries are Swedish and not grown in a greenhouse. Some years they are not available because of cold weather.

5237. DanDillon - 8/18/2000 10:43:22 AM

Before I moved from Chicago, I dumped a bunch of clothes and other assorted useables at a church down the street from my apartment. I had no real affiliation with the church, except I did cast my ballot for Bill Clinton there in 1996. I'm a strong believer in donating whatever has become superfluous. Moving is clearly the most propitious time for making such donations.

5238. glendajean - 8/18/2000 10:46:21 AM

What's the old saying, three moves is the equivalent of one good fire.

Dan -- do give us a description (I think Arky first asked). I'm curious about your library. How do you organize your books. Are the shelves built in or detached?

Pelle -- thank you for the update on the herrings. There is a tiny Norweigian town in my home county in Texas that has a pickled herring festival once a year. The place is called Cranfill Gap.

5239. DanDillon - 8/18/2000 11:20:45 AM

One of the things I'm looking forward to most is setting up the library. The shelves I bought are sturdy oak, and they are not built-ins. (The "library" has attached to it a full bathroom and a walk-in closet, so I wanted to maintain the room's versatility.) As it stands now, I have two full sets of shelves--one large center piece and two narrower, slightly shorter pieces--which house the books I use often. I also have a small book trough that cradles books on their front and bottom. My most prized possessions are held in that.

I also plan to have books in each bedroom of the house, appropriate to its occupant.

5240. glendajean - 8/18/2000 11:37:51 AM

How do you organize them? Non-fiction/fiction, subject matter, author?

5241. glendajean - 8/18/2000 11:38:24 AM

And what are your most prized possessions that are in the book cradle?

5242. Ronski - 8/18/2000 11:46:37 AM

Does the library have a day bed for guests (or naps)? That's what we're planning.

5243. theDiva - 8/18/2000 12:02:05 PM

No nursery?


(pry, pry, pry.......)

5244. janjon - 8/18/2000 12:08:00 PM

I have not been able to find any picture of the preparation process. The beheaded but ungutted herrings are put in barrels in a strong brine for a few days. The brine is then changed to a less salty one, which will allow fermentation. The barrels are left outside in the sun until the process starts. They are then stored in 15C (60F) for eight weeks before the herrings (still ungutted) are canned. The fermentation continues (at a lower rate) after canning. One has to be careful when opening so one doesn't get sprayed all over. The preferred method is to hold the can under water when puncturing it.

Ye Gods. The only thing I can think of to say is that I certainly hope that those poor herring are very finicky eaters.

I can understand the logic of "ungutted" in that in no doubt, um, both accelerates and adds, um um, character to the fermentation process.

But....

5245. marjoribanks - 8/18/2000 12:54:23 PM

The question from Diva is the most relevant, Dan. A spilling-over library is fine until it gets crowded out in favor of an exersaucer.



I'm now racking some books two deep.

5246. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 1:14:50 PM

I love to see how people display their books. I am very wild in my bookcases and put things together to amuse myself: I put Gore Vidal next to William F. Buckley, for instance, and I've grouped John Updike with John Cheever because they seemed to sort of be in competition with each other. I put Carl Sagan next to Carlos Castenada and Anais Nin next to Jane Austen.

5247. Thoughtful - 8/18/2000 1:20:02 PM

Dan, congrats on the house! You must tell us more. We are looking into such a thing. How long did it take to build? Did you go with a local contractor? General contractor? Do much work yourself? Tell us more -- a most exciting project!

5248. Thoughtful - 8/18/2000 1:25:09 PM

ronski & glendaj, thanks for the plant info -- I'll look into it some more. Gotta get on the stick and design the top of that rock garden before the winter winds blow.

5249. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:23:21 PM

We have our library in one half of the living area which is rather large -400 sq ft - by Swedish standards. It is basically organised in fiction and non-fiction. Last time I re-organized, I did the non-fiction in a new ingenious scheme. Trouble is I have forgotten its basic principles so I have a hell of a job to find any given book.

5250. janjon - 8/18/2000 2:27:56 PM

its the herring, Pelle.

5251. glendajean - 8/18/2000 2:29:16 PM

Pelle -- I sympathize. Since I moved last December, I still have no idea where all my books are located. I've usually kept my books in one room, but here they are in four different areas.

I keep my fiction separate, and all the novels are alphabetized by author. Everything else is subject matter (e.g., bios, memoirs & letters, histories, etc.)

5252. Thoughtful - 8/18/2000 2:35:21 PM

Wow! You guys are so organized. I have inherited a ton of books from my father-in-law -- mostly classics. He had shelves filled in his apartment in the city and we have more from the country house. We've moved some, but many remain unpacked. How are they organized? He had them organized by subject matter -- all the mysteries were together, all the fables and children's stories together, all the historical novels together, etc. How are they organized now? Easy! By which book fits on which shelf! The tall ones on the bottom, the short ones on the top!

5253. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:40:34 PM

janjon

You may well beright, Fermentation may be contagious. My official excuse is that I re-organised (and did it a bit hastily) just before I went to Mocambique for six weeks where I had to think about a lot of other things.


glenda

I too have the non-fiction by subject matter. Trouble is the matters overlap. For example, I have a bio section and a Middle East section. When I re-organised I apparently decided to expand the ME part to cover all ME stuff so the bios of Nasser, Assad and Arafat went there.

5254. DanDillon - 8/18/2000 10:23:57 PM

glendajean,
Once I get around to it, I'll organize my books by genre and by author. Anne plans on making small placecards denoting each section ("travel," "essays," "fiction," "historical fiction" "biography," etc.). In my book trough, or cradle as you call it, I have several signed first eds., an early ed. of Whitman's Leaves of Grass, beautifully restored and rebound copies of Addison's Spectator essays, a display copy of the complete Shakespeare (a staple, the flour of any collection), an odd little treasure called How to Speak Cat just for fun, and a few other works that quicken my breath every time I merely glance at them.

Ronski,
No day bed. We'll have two comfortable leather reading chairs and a shared table and ottoman. Nothing extravagant. Function over form.

Deev,
The nursery will come. All in good time, all in good time. We're probably looking at a couple of years yet....

Thoughtful™,
The house took exactly 7 months from contract to close. We were blessed with fair weather, and even more importantly, an exceptional builder. Some of the subcontractors he used were a bit slow, or they didn't get it right the first time, but such things are par for the course, I think. We established our close date the day we wrote the contract and we ended up closing only one week late. And our builder kept us apprised of every little delay so nothing came as a surprise. I did none of the manual labor myself--I'm simply not handy--but, as I mentioned earlier, Anne and I customized the existing plan a great deal. I came out to the construction site every single day to make sure everything in our conception of the house was being put in place. (An occasional case of beer for certain subs didn't hurt either.) I highly recommend the experience. It's quite rewarding to live in a space you've designed and watched be built from the soil on up.

5255. Thoughtful - 8/21/2000 2:37:12 PM

Dan, thanks for the insight. Yesterday hubby and I were sitting on the land discussing the approximate lay out and decided it would definitely be a good thing to start a house soon -- maybe by next spring. I know our schedule will open up soon as, by Sept. 30....

Hubby is Retiring!!! Hooray!!!

I've always wanted a "House Spouse" and now I'll finally have one! Can't Wait!

5256. marshame - 8/22/2000 3:57:54 PM

I have one bedroom with a wonderful floor-to-ceiling paladin window, and I decided that this would be my library/study. I painted it red and hung red and gold paisley curtaibs and put down a dark turkish rug and old gold mirrors and sconces on the walls. It is a neat, neat room! I call it "the red room" because your definite impression of the room is its color!




Judith

I have a blue Roseville water lily vase and a green apple blossom jardiniere. In Hull, I have vases in magnolia, wild flower, open rose and sueno tulip. I have assorted pieces of Camark, Abingdon, Van Briggle and McCoy.

I love the Roseville best, and would like to build that collection. I met a dealer at the Buchannan's show in Dallas this past week who says they have a good collection in their shop in Benbrook, so I may take a field trip out in that direction one of these week-ends when it cools down a bit.

5257. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2000 4:09:01 PM

marsha:

If you get that far, go down to Burleson and in the showcase room, dealer #44 has an extensive collection of Roseville. She may still be in the Benbrook mall, too. Her name is Rose Chandler. She bought a collection 2 years ago for $10,000...has some of it left. Burleson Mall is funky but they have some great stuff, and the prices are way low because rent is.

I have a dusty pink Bleeding Heart jardiniere by Roseville and a Hull Parchment & Pine basket...had a chance to get matching candlesticks for the basket and have been kicking myself for missing that one ever since! I also have a small pink and grey Hull basket; the P&P is huge, over 18". I have some McCoy and a small collection of white stylized deer in the deco tradition.

Your stuff sounds really nice; I love the Art Pottery of that time period.

5258. marshame - 8/22/2000 4:21:35 PM

Jude

Okay, you're talking me into it! Burleson will be added to the trip!

When I won an auction on a piece of Hull (probably because I inadvertantly bid $20 more than the piece was worth, thinking it was a different piece!!!) I was contacted via e-mail by someone who has a collection of Hull she is trying to dispose of. She has a parchment and pine tea pot, sugar and creamer. Would you like her e-mail address? Or I could just forward her e-mail to me, to you at your public address.

There is a fabulous collection of Roseville at the Forestwood Antique Mall at Forest and the Dallas North Tollway in Dallas. We are talking three, four, five pieces (large pieces) of the same pattern and color such as blue pine cone, blackberry, and some I've never even seen in books. Absolutely stunning! It is priced quite high, though. But is it beautiful! I wonder if it isn't so high so that he/she doesn't really have to sell it!

The Benbrook dealer told me to beware that there are many fake Hulls out these days.

5259. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 4:33:08 PM

Halp Halp! Is there a tree doctor in the house?

Yesterday during lunch my wife was looking out the window, and noticed a hole in the landscape. A liquid ambar that we planted down by the stream about six years ago was completely keeled over. It has basically broken off, less than a foot from the base. I suspect the horses pushed it over, they love scratching on trees. In any case, it's just hanging on to the stump by a sort of hinge, about a third of the bark and perhaps a quarter of the wood is intact. My opinion is that it's all over, but perhaps we can save it? I have pruned off most of the foliage, and we thought we'd plaster it with tree tar and try to get it back upright and stake it, but we haven't dared yet.

Does anyone have any specialist knowledge or experience in this sort of rescue operation?

5260. glendajean - 8/22/2000 4:36:31 PM

Alistair -- I don't know about that particular tree, but in general, I'd say your tree is gone. Even if it recovered, it would never have its full strength (and trunk). If you plant another tree, you might put a small fence around it until it is strong enough to withstand the horses. I know people who do that in the hill country of Texas to protect young striplings from deer who like to rub against the trees.

5261. Thoughtful - 8/22/2000 4:39:37 PM

When we bought the house, previous owner left some yellow flower pots behind -- not especially fond of the color, I was ready to toss them until I looked at the bottom and saw McCoy on it. Not my kind of stuff, but I suppose someone will want them sometime.

5262. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 4:39:54 PM

Yeah, we had a token fence around it with electric-fence ribbon, on the theory that they are scared of the ribbon and don't know it's not electrified. Next time we'll build something really solid.

Ahck. I loved that tree.

5263. janjon - 8/22/2000 4:40:03 PM

Alistair. Cut it down, let it cure a bit, and then have a special night at the fireplace.

5264. Ronski - 8/22/2000 4:40:19 PM

The repair scheme doesn't sound promising. But if it has been growing there for six years, if you seal the wound I imagine next year you will have new shoots from the base, which you can trim to one or two strong ones. It will be several years before you get anything resembling the tree as it was, but that's probably better than trying to find a tree that size to replace it with.

I'm no expert on this sort of thing, I must add.

5265. janjon - 8/22/2000 4:41:19 PM

Indeed, thoughtful, indeed.

5266. Thoughtful - 8/22/2000 4:41:19 PM

Connor, it's a goner -- sounds like far too much damage. Time to dig up and replant.

5267. prolph - 8/22/2000 4:42:03 PM

I have been silenttly lurking while I trudge the slow learning curve at ny computer. This week I will disconnect here (here beibg web tv) even though I haven'yet acceassed the Mote. Antvody got the url?
I think the best bet would be for Diva to come live with mr for a while although I am beginning to believe that there is a gestation taking place.

5268. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 4:44:18 PM

Pelle : Today is the third Thursday of August, a day of some importance around here, especially in the north, because it marks the release of this year's crop of rotten herring.

Sounds like the Beaujolais Nouveau... third Thursday of November if I remember correctly... you Herringistas should promote your Herring Day internationally, perhaps it'll gain snob value.

So how is this year's herring vintage? Good colour? Delicate bouquet? Hints of cherry and redcurrant?

5269. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 4:48:18 PM

Patsy ! I must say, after I put in quite a bit of work to get the Mote working with webTV, I was bitterly disappointed that you disappeared from view... if you need any little technical hints, drop me a line at tech@themote.com

5270. glendajean - 8/22/2000 4:49:15 PM

Patsy -- the url is www.themote.com

Glad you're still participating.

5271. glendajean - 8/22/2000 4:49:50 PM

Oops, sorry Alistair

5272. theDiva - 8/22/2000 4:52:00 PM

Patsy!

Gosh, I'd love to! Wouldn't we have a grand time?! But Greg and Gracie might miss me.

5273. Thoughtful - 8/22/2000 4:55:27 PM

patsy! So glad to see you hanging in there. Keep on keepin' on, gal!

5274. prolph - 8/23/2000 12:07:22 AM

Thank you all
Diba I don't see why Gracie and Greg can't come too.
Connor, all your work was much appteciated but it's my eyesight that iasn't working so well.
I shall be right back from mibdspringYhe url wotked and I just need to log on properly, sorry about the it probably would come back from thr
base. Assuming it is not a graft.

5275. Ronski - 8/23/2000 11:57:53 AM

Can you describe the herring as having a good nose, since they cut the heads off?

5276. Ronski - 8/23/2000 1:55:01 PM

BTW, eight tenths of an inch of snow fell on Mt. Washington in New Hampshire over the weekend.

5277. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:15:37 AM

GAYS RULE!

5278. glendajean - 8/24/2000 11:21:53 AM

We weed, too.

I am wading in tomatoes and it is wonderful. Delightful, tasty cherry ts, big fatted ones. That burst of flavor, so fleeting.

5279. Ronski - 8/24/2000 11:28:27 AM

And we cook.

Last night, I turned a store-bought "marinara" sauce into real marinara sauce by adding a healthy squeeze of anchovy paste (marinara does refer to the sea, after all, and not to tomatoes, garlic, and basil). Try this. It does not taste fishy (unless you overdo it with the paste), just deeper and more complex.

It was delicious, with rollatini, and thinly sliced crookneck squash sauteed with sweet red bell pepper, cayenne, black pepper, ginger, and nutmeg.

5280. theDiva - 8/24/2000 11:58:24 AM

That sounds sooooo good.

You are just shameless, Ronski, coming in here with these fabulous descriptions.

5281. Thoughtful - 8/24/2000 12:18:11 PM

Our tomatoes are still fairly few given the incredible rain we've had all summer. But I did make pesto the other night with our basil and garlic. Yum! The one I make has less oil than most so it's not quite so "rock in your stomach" as some can be. But basil with pignoli nuts and parmesan packs a wonderful flavor.

5282. glendajean - 8/24/2000 12:40:59 PM

Thoughtful -- in our pesto, we substituted walnuts for pine nuts -- I think my boyfriend read that in Cook's Bible, the book put out by the editor of Cook's Illustrated.

5283. Ronski - 8/24/2000 12:44:33 PM

The other night by partner (using a combo of pine nuts and walnuts) cooked them a little darker than usual (I will avoid using pejorative verbs like "burn"), and guess what? It made delicious pesto nevertheless, decidely different than usual, but with a smokey, deeper taste that was quite good. It was served on orrechio and broccoli.

5284. glendajean - 8/24/2000 12:47:55 PM

Walnuts burn quite fast. You really have to watch it.

5285. theDiva - 8/24/2000 12:49:31 PM

(lurking, inhaling meatball parmigiana sub)

5286. Thoughtful - 8/25/2000 9:46:27 AM

It is incredible how toasting brings out the flavor in the nuts. Walnuts do sound wonderful in the mix.

Once I was making pesto early in the season and didn't have quite enough basil so I added a bunch of fresh parsley and that was different yet quite delicious too. I understand parsley really packs a punch of Vit. C so it's very nutritious.

5287. grannypatsy - 8/25/2000 9:32:27 PM

Gee I wanted to restore myself as a motie so I changed my name. I am actuslly the artist previously known as Patsyrolph Now I can post at will. This is not meant a a thteat.

5288. arkymalarky - 8/25/2000 9:44:43 PM

Hey Patsy! Good to see you! If it's not a threat, then I hope it's a promise!

5289. DanDillon - 8/25/2000 9:47:50 PM

I love my home. Anne is in the other room banging nails gently into the wall to hang pictures and framed photos. It's feeling better every day. There is a togetherness here that goes unremarked but is nothing shy of remarkable.

5290. Thoughtful - 8/28/2000 9:14:38 AM

Dan, did you ever consider a manufactured house? Hubby and I are betwixt and between on a lot of the house building issues and that's a key one....manufactured having the advantage of being more sturdily built as it has to be mobile, built in a factory so it's not exposed to weather, speed as it takes about 6 weeks from start to finish, and square as everything is done with jigs. The biggest drawback in my book is that you can't live with the house as it's going up to make changes as you see them become necessary. Another drawback is getting contractors in who are happy with what becomes a very small job --plugging the house into the foundation -- plumbing, electrical etc. Also, I don't think site design is a focus which is important in our case as the house will be on the top of a hill sloping down into a wetlands area which is highly regulated.

5291. Thoughtful - 8/28/2000 9:15:57 AM

Finally got a chance to move the irises yesterday and hope they do ok. We got some weeding done in the top of the rock garden, but it's a real mess -- the whole thing needs to get dug up and replanted, but I have to design it first and digging is going to be a real mess with all the maple roots running through there....definitely a project that will keep us busy into the fall.

5292. PelleNilsson - 8/29/2000 4:21:39 AM

A nice recipe for haggis, should you feel so inclined:

1 cleaned sheep or lamb's stomach bag
2 lb. dry oatmeal
1 lb chopped mutton suet
1 lb lamb's liver, boiled and minced
1 pint (2 cups) stock
the heart and lights of the sheep, boiled and minced
1 large chopped onion
1/2 tsp.. each: cayenne pepper, Jamaica pepper, salt and pepper

Toast the oatmeal slowly until it is crisp, then mix all the ingredients (except the stomach bag) together, and add the stock. Fill the bag just over half full, press out the
air and sew up securely. Have ready a large pot of boiling water, prick the haggis all over with a large needle so it does not burst and boil slowly for 4 to 5 hours.
Serves 12.

5293. marshame - 8/29/2000 8:20:20 AM

What, I dare ask, are the lights of a sheep? Haggis sounds, well, it sounds right up there with poi, only with organs.

5294. PelleNilsson - 8/29/2000 8:50:40 AM

I have reason to believe that lights=lungs.

5295. Thoughtful - 8/29/2000 9:24:01 AM

Sorry Pelle, but in my house, that recipe would serve a lot more than 12 --can't think of anyone who'd want any of it.
Blecch.

I barely tolerate an occasional lamb chop....

5296. theDiva - 8/29/2000 9:33:11 AM

Pelle

All I can say is, thank God I don't suffer from morning sickness. Yuck.

5297. PelleNilsson - 8/29/2000 9:40:34 AM

To avoid any misunderstanding: this has nothing to do with Sweden. Haggis is the Scottish national dish. If you cast a glance in Stories and Poetry, you will understand how that recipe ended up here.

5298. theDiva - 8/29/2000 9:44:20 AM

well, yeah. Still.

5299. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:27:23 AM

We have become true midwesterners. My partner bought an electric smoker about a month ago. (He read in the NY Times that electric ones, with a pan of water inside, offer the most consistent heat and continually moist environment for smoking). His first brisket was ok, but really kind of tough.

Our neighbor, who is also from Texas, a retired military officer who has devoted his life to smoking meats, has been coaching my partner. On Sunday, he smoked the brisket for 12 hours, mopping it with some mixture once an hour -- I know it had garlic and chopped onions, because I chopped them.

Lord, was it good brisket. It almost crumbled when one poked it with a knife or fork. Supposedly the key is length of time, getting the internal heat over 180 degrees (F). Somewhere between 180 and 190,the meat breaks. Who knew?

5300. theDiva - 8/29/2000 10:37:35 AM

oh my God.

I think I need one of those. Are they expensive?

5301. JudithAtHome - 8/29/2000 10:47:48 AM

In the winter, I make brisket in my oven, on low heat. Cooked for about 7 hours in a turkey roaster with half a fifth of red wine and seasonings, it is fall apart tender and utterly delicious.

Plus the house stays warm....

5302. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:48:23 AM

He paid about $60 at Lowes. Probably cheaper now because they are doing summer clearance.

5303. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:50:38 AM

Juditha -- our neighbor says that when he has to cut short the smoking time, he ends up wrapping it tightly in foil and putting it in the oven (set at 350 degress, I think). As soon as the meat hits 190, he pulls it out. Of course, it has been in the smoker long enough to be smoked when he does that.

Diva -- there are all kinds of recipe books on smoking. My partner's book is called "Smoke and Spice."

5304. theDiva - 8/29/2000 10:54:21 AM

oh man. Now I want some brisket.

5305. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:57:27 AM

We also made potato salad using his dad's recipe. But his dad refuses to use red potatoes. "The Cooks Bible" says that red potatoes are best for potato salad, so followed the book's advice. It was delicious, too.

The brisket was so good, I thought about it all day at work yesterday. We had it again for supper last night.

5306. theDiva - 8/29/2000 10:58:16 AM

sob

5307. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:02:08 AM

There, there, dear. It's ok. Think of ... England.

5308. theDiva - 8/29/2000 11:07:50 AM

that only works with Niner.

5309. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:10:54 AM

And he's been usurped by Jackie V

5310. theDiva - 8/29/2000 11:12:10 AM

Never!

5311. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:53:05 AM

I am almost finished with the site plan for my customer's garden.

Little trick I learned a few years in measuring (NOTE: this is from a math illiterate that struggles in measuring).

Structures. Make baseline measurements of each side. In other words, one corner is 0. At 3 feet, a window starts. The other side of the window is at 7 feet. The porch is at 11 feet. All the way across. Much easier than dividing each segment into separate measurements.

Triangulation. This answers the question how to plot out a tree or shrub out there in the middle of the yard.

Since the structure or house has known measurements, (you get a survey of it, btw, when you buy the house), label each corner a letter from the alphabet. To make this simple, the left corner is A and the right corner is B. Number all the trees, shrubs or other structures out in the yard. Big maple tree in the left center is 1. Measure the distance between A and 1 and record it A to 1 = n ft. Do the same between B and 1 and record. When you are drawing your plan, widen your compass the length between A and 1. Place the compass point on A and the draw an arc in the vicinity of 1. Do the same with the measurement from B. The arcs of A and B intersect at the location of 1.

In the past, I've always used a scale of 1/4" = 1', but for large yards, I use 1" = 10' or 20'. You can easily buy architectural or engineering scales (3-sided plastic rulers set to a variety of scales) at any office or art supply store.

5312. glendajean - 8/30/2000 5:19:53 PM

Uh, oh. The next Martha Stewart?

Isn't one MS enough?

5313. PelleNilsson - 9/3/2000 4:38:45 PM

CalGal in International:

I don't think there's any doubt that sausages started in Europe. But we're talking about 'murrican hotdogs.

I think almost everything started in Europe. Why, for example, are hamburgers called hamburgers? The only fast food I can think of that's American is Kentucky Fried Chicken, but then I don't know everything.

5314. arkymalarky - 9/3/2000 6:39:56 PM

Hey! What do you mean American? Fried chicken is a product of the Confederacy!

5315. glendajean - 9/4/2000 10:40:28 AM

Pizza. Nachos. Both American.

5316. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 11:07:15 AM

gelenda

Re # 5311. When I get home in about two hours I'll describe a simple method for measuring the height of a slope.

5317. CalGal - 9/4/2000 11:24:33 AM

Hell, even the margarita is American.

Pizza actually was invented in Naples, I think--or wherever the word Neapolitan started from. But adding cheese--which really is what pizza is about--was American.

And I thought hotdogs were invented in America--Chicago, according to the Ebert piece, and that's probably true.

5318. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 1:25:03 PM

Adding cheese was certainly not an American idea, see Mama's Pizza History.

5319. CalGal - 9/4/2000 1:28:20 PM

Well, shoot. I've just been careless all round this weekend, and Roger Ebert was wrong--or maybe he was just joshing. Anton Feuchtwanger invented hotdog buns. And the distinctive flavor of the american hotdog still hasn't been explained satisfactorily to me after two days of research.

But that bit about pizza sounds wrong, still. I'll have to check up and see where my wires got crossed.

5320. CalGal - 9/4/2000 1:35:33 PM

History of Pizza.

Okay, I see what I got screwed up. It was the Neapolitan pizza that started the use of cheese. It was the Americans who popularized pizza, and that was due to Neapolitan immigrants.

5321. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 1:51:39 PM

No, CalGal, your Americo-centrism leads you wrong again. The Americans did not popularize pizza, at least not here in Europe. The Italians did that all by themselves. In Sweden, pizza appeared in the 60's when some of the Italian's who came here to work in heavy industry had saved enough money to open restaurants. Besides, that peculiar American variant, the pan pizza, has never taken here and I suspect not in the rest of Europe either.

5322. CalGal - 9/4/2000 2:02:53 PM

Pelle,

Do you mean the 1860s or the 1960s? If you mean the 1960s, then I think you are wrong. The Italians who moved to Sweden to open pizza stores probably did so because of its success in America, following their successful model. If pizza was known world wide, it was because of its American popularity, not because it was from Italy.

I would guess that the Italian immigrants who popularized pizza in Europe came from a different region? Either that or they tried the Neopolitan style first and moved onto other regional variations. It'd be interesting to find out which it was.

Incidentally, it's not Ameri-centrism that causes me to say this. Americans, because of their sheer numbers, popularize a lot of things that came originally from other countries. I imagine that a good many Africans think pizza is American, for example.

5323. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 2:11:43 PM

CalGal

On a dour note: I don't really appreciate you lecturing me on what happened in Sweden in the 1960's. I was there, remember? The Italians opened these restaurants to cater to their countrymen's taste but Swedes turned up too because at the time, Italy was the most popular tourist destination and they had become exposed to pizza there.

5324. CalGal - 9/4/2000 2:17:42 PM

I wasn't lecturing you on what happened in the 60s. I was speculating based on the information you provided, and betting on likelihoods. You then provided more information that you apparently think clobbers my argument. Alas. But if you provide a link explaining that the Italians who went to Sweden had no thought of emulating their cousins' successful American model, I will happily defer.

I suppose the next thing we'd have to debate is a definition of the word "popularized".

5325. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 2:36:38 PM

Let us not take this too far. Let us instead consider how to measure the height difference between any two points on a sloping piece of land.

You need a measuring stick, a plank and a water-level.

Place the stick vertically at the lowest point.

Place one end of the plank further up the slope, but let the other end be in contact with the stick.

Put the water-level on the plank and adjust its stick end so that it is perfectly horizontal.

Read off the measure on the stick and write it down.

Put the stick where the plank rests on the ground and move the plank further up the slope.

Repeat this until you reach the highest point and then add the measures together.

It's easiest if two persons cooperate.

5326. grannypatsy - 9/4/2000 3:53:38 PM

Gee, I had no idea pizza was so intyeresting. We were ordering pizza before the 5o's and the consensus was that it was brought vback from europe with returning military folks. My question is who cares?

I have gathered the impression that Pelle is going to Afroca'.Going to Africa is a prime example for me that there is something gor everyone.As we know, I am a shadow chaser(I really like total solar eclipses). The last tolal so;ar eclipse of thje 2nd millenium was clearest over the Black Aea so I went thewre. The first total solart eclipse of the 3rd millenium will be in June oif 01 and best seen from Afica. Many safaris are being offered. I don/t want to attend a safari. Aha, there is a cargo ship which departs from Cardiff amd emds at Capetown, standing off StGelena of the eclipses, This will take a month and I've got a reservation.

5327. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 4:16:47 PM

Patsy

No, I'm not going to Africa (as far as I know, things can change quickly in my job). I was in Africa (Mozambique) at this time a year ago. The last Motie to go there (Kenya)is dusty who came back only a week ago. You've been away so you might know hime better as FreeToChoose.

That's a lovely trip you are planning. I've always wanted to go somewhere on a cargo ship but I'm afraid I'd swell to double normal size due to the nice food they are reputed to serve.

5328. alistairconnor - 9/4/2000 4:24:56 PM

Hey Patsy, can you get good pizza in Escondido?


Cal, your Americanocentrism is so caricatural that it's almost a shame to deflate it...

You know, geographically speaking, it isn't necessary to pass through America when going from Italy to the rest of Europe...

But rest assured, there are Pizza Huts, or equivalent, in France, making American pizzas. There are also "authentic" Italian pizzerias of various regional varieties. But most French pizzerias make a French adaptation of the pizza.

5329. SnowOwl - 9/4/2000 4:26:08 PM

On my last trip on a cargo ship they ran out of food, other than broad beans and sausages. We were offered broad beans and sausages at every meal for about 4 days before we finally docked in Palermo, whereupon we all gorged ourselves on fresh fruit and gelato and ended up with the Italian version of Delhi belly.

5330. alistairconnor - 9/4/2000 4:32:55 PM

Hey Snow, glad to see you coming out of the woodwork... I forgot to ask you for those tomato seeds. Next year perhaps. We've got tomatoes at the moment, not a bad year for them, though rather a wet summer.

5331. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 4:37:55 PM

SnowOwl

Shocking. I hope they didn't run out of booze as well.

5332. dusty - 9/4/2000 4:49:23 PM

grannypatsy

Why no interest in a safari? I just returned from one, and enjoyed it more than I expected.

Pelle was close in his description, but I was in Tanzania, not Kenya.

I did get my first glimpse of the Southern Cross, but no eclipses, despite the fact that Africa is getting eclipses in back-to-back yyears, if I recall correctly.

5333. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 4:55:08 PM

dusty

You mentioned Kilimanjaro and Serengeti. That's why I assumed Kenya where the tourist trade is more developed and, people say, things are more organised. I've done some modest touristing in Tanzania when on business trips and I thought things worked out pretty well, but then I'm used to thirld world countries.

5334. SnowOwl - 9/4/2000 5:02:54 PM

Alistair

Last summer was lousy for tomatoes. I got very few ripened. I'm hoping for better things this year, but we seem to be following the same weather pattern - an exceptionally mild winter up until now, but we are now into our 12th day of ceaseless rain. I hope the mild winter doesn't mean we're in for another lousy summer. If so, I'm planning a move to warmer climes.

Pelle

I think they would have run out of fuel oil before they ran out of booze. Once we got sick of broad beans and sausages it was the only sustenance we had.

5335. grannypatsy - 9/4/2000 5:06:23 PM

Snow owl, lotsa reasons I don't wabt to be ona safari. Age is one but I don't like bugs abd general unrest.
glaan you enjoyed it.


Snow Owl, lotsa reasons I don't want to be on safari.Age is one. glad you enjoyed it. My first view of the southern cross was from
australia, I suppose it will reappear when we're south of the equator.

Your mwnu aboard a carfo ship is noit enticing but perhaps I will loose weight. This ship is HMS Saint Helena and is still in service at royal command;Saint Helena has no airport'

Alistar of course we have good pizza in escondido. I like Papa John's for delivery but there are a variety of wood fired establishments that are tasty.

5336. CalGal - 9/4/2000 5:19:25 PM

Alistair,

That whizzing noise you hear is the sound of the point going right over your head.

But then, anyone who thinks that Pizza Hut is an example of the way that pizza became popularized really ought to excuse himself from the conversation.

5337. glendajean - 9/5/2000 11:28:13 AM

Looks like I started a Pizza war. It's a bit ironic because when I mentioned pizza as an American dish, it was because it is often listed as one of those foods that American think of as from another country, but is actually American. We think we're eating ethnic food and we're really eating food made palatable for Americans.

BTW, reminds me of a movie I've plugged before, Big Night. A wonderful story about about 1950s Italian brothers trying to create an authentic Italian restaurant in NYC but up against the red and white checkered table cloth "we serve spaghetti" kind of Italian restuarant that was prevalent in that time. Much like the lovely Babbette's Feast,, an entire movie about making one meal. Be prepared to be hungry after it's over.

Pelle -- thanks for the slope measuring suggestion. I've read something similar and just need to practice doing it.

5338. Ronski - 9/5/2000 12:07:35 PM

49 degrees F. this morning.

5339. Thoughtful - 9/5/2000 12:40:59 PM

I don't vouch for the source, but it makes for an interesting read...
Pizza History.

5340. Ronski - 9/5/2000 1:26:23 PM

Nice link. The best pizza I ever had was made in a restaurant where I (mostly) grew up, in Westchester County, NY. The patriarch of a local politically connected (GOP) family ran the place until he retired. The ambiance was as simple as could be, and you could see the dough being hurled into the air through a large window that separated the kitchen and ovens from the dining area.

They really threw those pies high into the sky. It made for incredibly thin crusts; the centers were held together more by crusty mozzarella* and parmagiano* than by dough. (*For proper Sicilian coloration, drop the final vowels as you pronounce those beautiful words.)

It's been many years since that restaurant closed, and, like Bojangles for his dog, I still grieve.

5341. PelleNilsson - 9/5/2000 2:02:43 PM

I like anchovies pizza the best.

Pizzerias in Sweden are an intersting sociological phenomenon. Pizzas as fast food is a heavily standardized product and not difficult to produce. Competetion is sharp. It's a typical family business where everyone must work long hours. But it is also a stepping stone into the "establishment" (on a low level for sure, but you have your own business).

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the first pizzerias were operated by Italians who came here as workers, saved their money and went into business. They have since moved up the ladder in the restaurant business. Then came the Yugoslavs who followed the same cycle. Nowadays, most pizzerias are run by Turks, although the first Africans have appeared, indicating that another change of the guard is in the offing.

5342. PsychProf - 9/5/2000 2:08:41 PM

PEPE'S

5343. Thoughtful - 9/5/2000 3:06:21 PM

PP, I understand from trusted sources that Sal's or Sallie's (?) is giving Pepe's a run for their money.... Reaganites may remember he got pizza from Pepe's during a campaign run through CT. I like Pepe's, but I gotta admit that Regina's in Boston is also very, very good pizza.

5344. Thoughtful - 9/5/2000 3:06:53 PM

Talk about american food, lets not forget ice cream -- Dolly Madison was a woman of many talents.

5345. CalGal - 9/5/2000 3:09:13 PM

I like anchovies pizza the best.

Keeee-rist. You people gotta put salty fish on everything, doncha.

5346. PelleNilsson - 9/5/2000 3:32:00 PM

Ice cream is Italian too.

CalGal

Hahaha! True, but anchovy is a foreign salty fish. Ever taste anchovy-filled olives?

5347. Ronski - 9/5/2000 3:45:43 PM

Anchovies are a time-honored topping for pizza, it being a Mediterranean fish and all.

Now, if Pelle had said he orders pizza with herring, well...

5348. CalGal - 9/5/2000 3:50:56 PM

Pelle,

If it weren't for olive oil, I'd banish them from the planet. Olives are one of the very few things that I will pick out from a salad or a dish. I don't mind olive paste.

In short--olives stuffed with anchovies ain't gonna be on my menu anytime soon.

5349. theDiva - 9/5/2000 3:53:18 PM

speaking of alici, I made the most luscious pasta the other night. Made a battuto of garlic and anchovy, let it melt into some olive oil over a low flame, added a chopped yellow onion and let that turn golden. Chopped up some fresh tomatos and tossed that in. It simmered until the tomatos got soft, then I added about 2 T of capers and some torn up basil. Poured over spaghetti. mmmmmm.......

5350. Ronski - 9/5/2000 4:03:32 PM

Yummy. Capers are wonderful in almost anything, short of gellato.

5351. Ronski - 9/5/2000 4:04:25 PM

Now, finely ground, toasted hazelnuts in gellato, wow!

5352. CalGal - 9/5/2000 4:04:55 PM

What is a battuto? A paste?

It sounds good except for the anchovy.

And I do like smoked fish--just not anchovies, Pelle.

5353. Ronski - 9/5/2000 4:14:50 PM

Smoked boneless, skinless trout. Also the yums!

(The less a fish looks like a fish on your plate, the better.)

5354. Thoughtful - 9/5/2000 4:15:04 PM

According to this, ice cream's origin is somewhat murky, though the Dolly Madison story is included here. Italian ices or sherbets don't count in my book as ice cream.

5355. PelleNilsson - 9/5/2000 4:15:33 PM

Anchovies are not smoked, just salted. And as I said, it's a Mediterranean thing, not Herringistani. And yes, it's definitely an acquired taste. Although when blended in as Diva described, it adds taste without being dominant. I bet you've had anchovy preparations in the fancy restaurants you frequent without realizing it.

5356. Thoughtful - 9/5/2000 4:23:45 PM

According to this one, the ice cream cone is American -- though invented by an Italian. It also suggests ice cream in the US predated Dolly Madison by a few years.

5357. CalGal - 9/5/2000 4:25:07 PM

Oh, I realize it. If it's subtle enough, I don't mind it. I can usually tell from the menu description if I'll mind it or not. But anchovy on cheese and tomato sauce is an abomination. And anchovy plain is just unappetizing.

And that's right, I keep on forgetting that they're just salty, not smoked.

5358. PelleNilsson - 9/5/2000 4:39:22 PM

The Russians used to claim they had invented everything. The telephone, the light bulb, the internal combustion engine, you name it, they'd done it.

I will say no more.

5359. Thoughtful - 9/5/2000 4:40:02 PM

If hubby wants anchovies -- I call them rat-tails -- on his pizza, he gets his own. The flavor will permeate the entire pizza, even if it's only on one half. Yuck.

5360. Dusty - 9/5/2000 7:43:19 PM

Had some smoked salmon (home-made) the other night. Yummy. Plain, or with a dill sauce.

And home-make crab cakes for dinner tonight.

5361. Dusty - 9/5/2000 7:46:27 PM

Come to think of it, I've had some less than traditional meals recently. Had ostrich last week (served in a cafeteria, no less). Goat two weeks earlier, and Guinea Fowl the week before.

Had a delicious pumpkin soup.

And passion fruit.

5362. SnowOwl - 9/5/2000 8:27:35 PM

It's interesting to see the differences in what we consider traditional foods. Pumpkin soup is a staple in my family and, if I took a vote, would proably be the most popular soup that I make. Passionfruit were so abundant in my mother's garden that they would fall off the vine and rot on the ground. It's too cool in the area I now live for them to do well and I cry when I see the prices being charged for them in the shops.

On the other hand, when I read about jello salads and candied yams my stomach does flip flops.

I love curried goat. I don't think there's anything better for a curry and I'm sorry that it's not available down here.

5363. SnowOwl - 9/5/2000 8:27:52 PM

It's interesting to see the differences in what we consider traditional foods. Pumpkin soup is a staple in my family and, if I took a vote, would probably be the most popular soup that I make. Passionfruit were so abundant in my mother's garden that they would fall off the vine and rot on the ground. It's too cool in the area I now live for them to do well and I cry when I see the prices being charged for them in the shops.

On the other hand, when I read about jello salads and candied yams my stomach does flip flops.

I love curried goat. I don't think there's anything better for a curry and I'm sorry that it's not available down here.

5364. SnowOwl - 9/5/2000 8:28:32 PM

grrrr! Sorry about the double post.

5365. CalGal - 9/6/2000 1:38:45 AM

The Russians used to claim they had invented everything.


I thought that was the Klingons who did that.

5366. CalGal - 9/6/2000 1:39:48 AM

And SnowOwl, I just had a lovely dinner in which I had banished the thought of anchovies. Must I now be plagued with the thought of curried.....goat?

5367. SnowOwl - 9/6/2000 6:10:12 AM

Sorry if I spoilt your digestion, Cal. We'll just have to get you down here for a hearty traditional NZ meal of kina and muttonbirds.

I love anchovies. On rare occasions I give myself a treat and buy a tin of them, which I proceed to eat just as they are.

5368. PelleNilsson - 9/6/2000 7:03:11 AM

SnowOwl

How courageous of you to admit it.

I do that too.

5369. CalGal - 9/6/2000 7:21:40 AM

So I fall asleep last night before I finish a status report that has to be ready for a 9:00 EDT meeting, wake up in a cold sweat at 3:30, login to get it done and just check into the Mote to see.....GACK!

5370. theDiva - 9/6/2000 8:00:41 AM

a battuto is when you mince vegetables all together with a savory, usually olive oil and salt, or bacon, or anchovy, and yes, it forms a sort of paste. I used 1 anchovy fillet and one enormous garlic clove. If you allow the mixture to melt slowly into the olive oil, all you get is savor, not the extreme salty-fishy taste that comes with larding a perfectly good pizza with tons of fillets. Which is, I agree, an abomination and a misuse of a perfectly fine ingredient.

5371. CalGal - 9/6/2000 8:11:13 AM

That sounds interesting. I could certainly eat that.

not the extreme salty-fishy taste that comes with larding a perfectly good pizza with tons of fillets

Exactly.

BTW, I'm not a finicky eater at all. We just happen to be bumping into the things I reeeeeally don't like and would be unlikely to approach in their unadulterated form.

5372. theDiva - 9/6/2000 8:14:42 AM

I suspect you would. My husband formerly possessed a similar horror of anchovies until I gave him a dish prepared in the manner I described previously. He gobbled it, oohing and aahing and 'oh honey'ing all the way....and then I told him what he'd just eaten. He's now hooked.

In any case, I will make it for you when you visit.

5373. PelleNilsson - 9/6/2000 8:32:24 AM

An anchovy source

5374. glendajean - 9/6/2000 12:05:01 PM

Diva -- I wish that you could convince me to like anchovies with that meal. I always pass when it is a choice.

The temps in Indy are now ranging from 50s at night to 70s in daytime. Perfect weather to begin fall gardening work (for those of us on this side of the globe's equator).

It's a perfect opportunity to divide perennials, plant new trees and shrubs, pull out weeds from old beds, pump up the soil with organic matter.

And plant spring bulbs. Don't be stingy in planting bulbs. Never plant under 10 (you can do better with larger numbers). If you have old bulbs that never bloom (usually daffodils that were planted around smaller trees or shrubs that are now being overshadowed by the larger plant), dig them up and replant.

Put a little bulb food around them when you plant. If squirrels or moles are a problem, get large hole wire mesh from the hardware department and put around the bulbs, giving the enough space to grow out their roots and send up their sprouts, but making it more difficult for the vermin to get to the tender bulb.

Consider alliums (from the onion family). Think about chives (purple flowers) or garlic (white, dandelion like). Try something you've never used before. And if you live in zone 8 or 9, try rinunculus, the Persian flower that is particularly wonderful for cut flowers.

5375. theDiva - 9/6/2000 12:09:12 PM

my dear, you know where I live. Give me a few days notice.

5376. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2000 12:17:17 PM

Could someone tell me if I will be able to cut a pork tenderloin in such a way as to allow me to roll it back up after "stuffing" it with pesto and green onions and then roasting it and so then having it look like a pinwheel effect after it's sliced? I hope this isn't too confusing....

5377. theDiva - 9/6/2000 12:39:31 PM

Judith

Depends on the size of the tenderloin. The ones I've seen are generally too small. If you get one that's big enough, you could probably pound it flat, spread your filling, then roll it back up much like we do with farsumargru (sp?) Or if you get a small one, make a hole in it with a butcher's steel and put the stuffing in that way.

5378. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2000 1:11:27 PM

Thanks...I was thinking more of cutting along the edge lengthwise and sort of continuing to cut until it rolled out flat like a jellyroll before you smear on the jelly and roll it up. It's 2 pounds...but I wondered if the direction of the grain on a "tenderloin" would preclude that? I know you can do that with chicken breasts...

The hole in the middle sounds like it might work; even cutting in almost in half and folding it over could do it....hmmmmmm....

5379. theDiva - 9/6/2000 1:22:46 PM

yeah, I wonder whether the way you cut it would make it curl up funny.

5380. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2000 1:38:11 PM

Well, I have til Friday to decide. We're have a couple over for dinner before the play; we're eating "light" because there will be a champagne reception with goodies after the play.

5381. PelleNilsson - 9/6/2000 2:29:22 PM

Judith

I think cutting it in almost half and then giving it a good pounding will work.

5382. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2000 2:47:54 PM

Thanks, Pelle....I was trying for the German "Rolladen" type dish. I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

5383. PelleNilsson - 9/7/2000 3:04:16 PM

Each year at this time we get a letter from the Collin Street Bakery in Corsicana, Texas, inviting us to buy a De Luxe Fruit Cake for Christmas. We have done that, twice I think, and they were quite good, though somewhat on the sweet side. But is this establishment as famous and well-known as it claims to be?

5384. Thoughtful - 9/7/2000 3:17:50 PM

Pelle, I've never heard of them...but I don't like fruitcake and have long suspected that there were only ever 1 or 2 of them made several centuries ago which just keep getting passed around from family to family at xmas time, but are never eaten....

them and those little candied almonds that seem to grace every bridal shower and wedding I've ever been to...

5385. theDiva - 9/7/2000 3:24:29 PM

if you wet those net bags before you toss them, they make a pretty good missile.

5386. SnowOwl - 9/7/2000 3:37:28 PM

Clearly you people have never tasted a good fruitcake. My Christmas cakes have been made for a couple of months now and are nicely maturing in the cupboard, helped along by being fed with booze every week.

5387. PelleNilsson - 9/7/2000 4:05:21 PM

SnowOwl

Do you take orders?

5388. Uzmakk - 9/7/2000 4:09:03 PM

Snowowl:
I love fruitcake. Good fruitcake sends me into ecstacy.

5389. Uzmakk - 9/7/2000 4:10:41 PM

If you do take orders contact me before Pelle Nilsson as I am a much bigger fish than he is.

5390. CalGal - 9/7/2000 4:16:58 PM

I used to have a recipe for a dark fruitcake that was spectacular. No candied fruit, just plums and prunes and god knows what else, held together with a small bit of flour, eggs, sugar, and booze.

5391. glendajean - 9/7/2000 8:01:49 PM

Pelle -- I've seen the Collins Street Bakery. Corsicana (prounounced CORE-SI-CAN-UH) is a small town and the bakery is one of its most prominent businesses. It is well known to people who buy fruit cake. I found them quite good, too.

OTH, fruit cake has a rather negative reputation based on homemade versions that are heavy, dry and almost inedible. Hence the proliferation of jokes around Christmas time of fruit cake games where the loser is the one who ends up with the fruit cake.

5392. SnowOwl - 9/8/2000 2:26:17 AM

Pelle and Uz,

I'd be delighted to make you both a fruitcake. There will, however, be a small freight charge. I require a return ticket to each of your respective locations.

Coincidentally, I've just today received a letter from the Collin Street Bakery. I've never received one before and I have no idea how they got my name and address. I don't like the look of their offering much - too light to be a good cake in my opinion.

5393. alistairconnor - 9/8/2000 3:45:29 AM

Message # 5376 Nobody's getting near MY tender loin with a knife or a butcher's steel... Not even you, Diva...

5394. Ronski - 9/8/2000 11:06:26 AM

In the hills of southeastern New York, the trees are starting to change color. Mostly just the red maples (acer rubrum) and silver maples (acer saccharinum), and only at the tips of branches, but it is happening. It seems early this year. Probably because the weather has been unusually cool.

Color in the Northeast generally is predicted to be spectacular this year, because of a wet summer.

5395. JudithAtHome - 9/8/2000 11:39:32 AM

Pelle:

The Collin Street Bakery is a legend amongst fruit cake lovers...one would think that would be a fairly small lot but I think it's been around so long, people just keep buying and buying...it's like you do it because your parents did it and so on and so on. I know those who never fail to send fruitcakes to people they rarely ever see (and who fail to get the connection between those two actions) and the bakery does a landslide business every year.

If I could judge by the number of Collin St. Bakery fruit cake tins for sale in yard sales every year, I'd say they are making millions....

5396. JudithAtHome - 9/8/2000 1:19:00 PM

Update on pork tenderloin:

Not gonna fix it til Sunday; our guests for tonight had to cancel for dinner and the play...she is preggers and has developed an ear infection; feels awful and can't hear.

5397. PelleNilsson - 9/8/2000 2:59:55 PM

Fresh blue mussels cooked in white wine today. Not bad at all.

5398. theDiva - 9/8/2000 3:03:10 PM

ooooohhh. Sounds good.

I shall be eating well this weekend. Our parish is having its annual festival and I am looking forward to the usual array of goodies.

5399. Ronski - 9/8/2000 3:08:49 PM

The French (and I) cook mussels in white wine and chopped shallots, with salt and pepper, and add some light cream to the liquid at the very end, which is served poured over the mussels.

Delicious.

5400. JudithAtHome - 9/8/2000 3:19:05 PM

I llike mussels made the way they do in the Netherlands, with onions and carrots in wine.

5401. PelleNilsson - 9/8/2000 3:37:00 PM

Not carrots. Chopped shallots, a touch of garlic, lots of parsley. Yes, light cream can be added although I normally don't.

5402. JudithAtHome - 9/8/2000 3:39:01 PM

Well, I had them in Utrecht with carrots in them and they were very good.

5403. PelleNilsson - 9/8/2000 3:42:58 PM

Well, If you had them in Utrecht ..... (you show-off you).

5404. JudithAtHome - 9/8/2000 3:51:01 PM

:-)

5405. Ronski - 9/8/2000 4:16:38 PM

Staying once in a ski lodge in Aspen I had a creamed melange of cabbage, carrots, and onions that was very good. It was made by a Danish chef, and was purportedly a Danish way of eating these things. I have made it myself from time to time, adding a few caraway seeds.

(I seem to have some sort of low-level addiction to caraway seeds.)

5406. Ronski - 9/8/2000 4:39:20 PM

Good point about the parsley on the mussels. I will put chopped parsely on almost everything that is not already green.

Which reminds me of a story.

My late partner's French mother, who lived in England, was years ago speaking on the phone to her widowered father in France, who complained that he thought his clothes were looking a bit dingy. She suggested that he use something available in England called Persil (a detergent, one that I believe is made by a German company), and which she assumed he could also obtain across the Channel in Normandy.

Well, it happens that persil is the French word for parsley. He misunderstood what she was saying and promptly threw fistfuls of the herb plucked from his garden into the next wash.

Turning everything a lovely celadon color.

5407. stostosto - 9/8/2000 4:56:02 PM

Ronski

That Danish thing sounds plausible - and delicious. But I won't say I recognise it as a staple.

5408. Ronski - 9/8/2000 4:56:58 PM

sto,

A Danish invention, then. But a good one.

5409. Thoughtful - 9/8/2000 4:57:05 PM

ronski, your parsley story reminded me of the PBS show on the 1900 house where a family agreed to live as if it were 1900 for 3 months. Most fascinating.

But the one time they cheated and bought something modern was for something I would never have even considered -- shampoo. Seems the soaps they used in 1900 were just awful and terribly drying to the skin and hair. The remedies included even worse things like wax. The mother turned her hair into such an awful mess that she couldn't stand it and bought shampoo. Used it once and felt guilty about cheating so threw it out.

5410. stostosto - 9/8/2000 5:02:44 PM

Hey, Ronski

I vaguely remember that Persil brand from my childhood. Apparently it was a transnational or, at least, trans-european phenomenon. Probably a Unilever brand.

5411. stostosto - 9/8/2000 5:03:29 PM

Parsley is 'persille' in Danish, incidentally.

5412. Ronski - 9/8/2000 5:13:32 PM

I think Unilever now makes everything.

5413. thoughtful - 9/10/2000 3:47:43 PM

Well, I'm in the process of repairing a failure.

I had my old white french provincial vanity from when I was a little girl. White with gold painted accents. A drawer on either side and a center that lifts up with a mirror inside. The surface is a formica of sorts. When I redid the MBR which includes a small dressing room, I decided that the white had to go. I managed to paint the lower part in a butterscotch color and proceeded to use a dark stain which I rubbed on with a plastic grocery bag leaving the finish looking like a finely-grained walnut. I redid the gold and it looked lovely.

The top, I marbleized in 3 shades of green with a very dark green veining. It looked great. The only problem was the primer I used to go over the formica -- which said it was good for formica and which the paint store man told me would be ok -- was not ok. It eventually failed and my lovely marbelizing started peeling up off the surface in sheets. The formica underneath was untouched.

I spent the day repainting the top -- only this time I used "bin" as a primer -- it's actually a white pigmented shellac. It seemed to adhere very nicely, though I did have to sand it before I could paint as it dries too quickly to be self-leveling. I marbelized again and am letting it dry. I'll start urethaning the surface later today if I have time. This time, I hope it adheres for good!

5414. thoughtful - 9/10/2000 3:49:49 PM

only thing about "bin" is be sure to use an old brush or a cheap one as you will have to throw it out when you're done. I did what it said on the can for cleaning up and I did it right away, but to no avail. The brush was a goner. Still if it keeps me from repainting a 3rd time, it's well worth it.

5415. JudithAtHome - 9/11/2000 12:44:25 PM

The pork tenderloin worked out GREAT...I made it lay out by cutting it like a sushi chef does a large radish. Stuffed with garlic, chopped onions, chopped mushrooms, and pesto paste. Rolled it up like an ice cream log; it was wonderful!

5416. Ronski - 9/11/2000 12:46:40 PM

My cousin has a boat on a nearby lake and a rubber raft called a "Thunderbolt" that gets pulled behind it. I rode this thing yesterday.

If the boat goes fast the thing flies, and is absolutely KRAZY going back and forth over the wakes. It's also amazing how many pot holes there are in lake water.

Water skiing is a lot easier on the body. Absolutely everything hurts today, and it makes me wonder what rodeo guys do for internal organs when they get older.

5417. JudithAtHome - 9/11/2000 12:52:58 PM

I've seen people do that and wondered if it hurt as much as slalom skiing in choppy water....which might not hurt a lot of people but it did me...

5418. glendajean - 9/11/2000 5:10:19 PM

Judith, did you sautee the onions, mushrooms and garlic before stuffing the porkloin?

5419. JudithAtHome - 9/11/2000 6:28:43 PM

Nope...just threw them in there, rolled it up, stuck 2 small skewers in to hold it shut, and slow cooked it in a low oven (300°) for almost 3 hours. I had more whole mushrooms, carrots, and new potatoes in the roaster with some gravy (thinned). Just occured to me I forgot the Brusselsprouts and wine in the gravy! Oh well, it was only an experiment so maybe I'll get right one of these times!

5420. Thoughtful - 9/12/2000 5:26:44 PM

glendaj, there's a typo in the header for this thread --
When I was growing up, We we meant something a little different!

5421. glendajean - 9/12/2000 5:35:44 PM

Thoughtful -- I am clueless about where the header comes from. It could have been something that I wrote a year ago. Maybe somebody else wrote it. I'll try to figure it out. Thanks.

5422. CalGal - 9/12/2000 5:36:26 PM

GJ, just go to maintain and Modify thread.

5423. arkymalarky - 9/12/2000 7:04:28 PM

Ronski,
People absolutely love that sport around here. One nice thing about AR is we've got plenty of water and lots of warm weather for water sports. Too bad Bob doesn't like water sports much and I don't go to the lake/river enough.

5424. DanDillon - 9/12/2000 9:25:04 PM

Never fails... whenever I visit this thread, I am always delighted and warmed by the posts. You might say its content makes me feel content!

5425. Ronski - 9/13/2000 1:25:48 PM

arky,

I have to tell you that my joints may not be ready for doing that again anytime soon. About 36 hours later, I felt pain in places I did not know I had, as the saying goes.

Next time, I will demand a slower speed and fewer turns over the wake from my cousin.

5426. Ronski - 9/13/2000 1:27:51 PM

Flower alert: I have a mini-cattleya orchid called "Mini-purple" that I placed in a shady spot out on the deck a few months ago. It is just about to bloom, and I brought it indoors to enjoy it.

I get a major thrill getting an orchid to bloom, even one that is relatively easy, as this one supposedly is.

5427. ScottLoar - 9/13/2000 3:14:44 PM

A boon from the sale of common orchids by supermarkets, Home Depot and chain nurseries is the professional orchid growers now court the patronage of collectors by offering special sales to society members and, well, just about everyone who knows the sale is on. I encourage those who love orchids, those who want to upgrade their collection, and those who want to more know about the care and differentiation of orchids to join a local orchid collectors society - there are some wonderful deals to be had through professional growers.



Disclaimer: I am not a professional grower and have no proprietary interest in the popularity of orchids.

5428. Thoughtful - 9/13/2000 3:26:10 PM

ronski! How wonderful. I hope to be able to enjoy in that thrill some day with my 3 babies. Phoebe has long since finished blooming and seems to be doing nothing much except for the growth of two green roots that are climbing along the rim of the pot. Phil also has some new roots showing that are growing. He has only 3 large leaves and one is starting to yellow. He's essentially done nothing since I got him. Denny has a very tall, healthy looking 4th stalk with many leaves on it. He's grown quite a bit since I got him and I see a few white roots just starting to show in his pot. So far, they've survived me...but no signs of blooming to be had. Sigh.

5429. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 1:50:10 PM

Back from the countryside. I managed to chop up all the wood. I had to use wedges and sledgehammer on the largest pieces but otherwise it was pretty plain sailing, few knots, straight, dry wood, sheer joy except that my back protested towards the end. Anyhow, this structure is now filled to the brim.



We had excellent weather, sunny, light winds, about 16C (61F) at midday.

Christina applied herself to the gathering of lingonberries and mushrooms and brought home about a gallong (US) of each.

There are very few birds around at this time of year. The usual pair of ravens, the woodpeckers and some jays (Garrulus glandarius). They are nice-looking birds but damned noisy. This morning, as we left, we saw a Goldeneye (Bucephala clangula) on the lake.

The chain-saw gave up on me. I suspect a fuel supply problem. In the spring I will have to take it to the eccentric old chap in the village who is a genius at 2-stroke engines and charges practically nothing, but who has to be cajoled into taking on any work.

5430. SnowOwl - 9/17/2000 4:30:16 PM

I'm still in a state of chainsaw envy.

After almost a month of ceaseless rain the skies finally cleared yesterday and I was able to escape from the Olympics and take refuge in the garden. The ground is sodden and boggy and there's little I can do until it dries out again, other than tackle the very overdue rose pruning.

Most of the Spring bulbs have been and gone, and the early rhododendrons have finished flowering. There's something of a lull in the garden now until the late Spring/early Summer things start to bloom, but it's great watching the buds starting to swell on things like peonies.

During the early, mild part of winter I moved 15 roses to new locations. They've all settled nicely into their new homes and are starting to show signs of new growth. I've still got several more to shift, and although this is the wrong time of the year for it I'm going to move them anyway.

On a whim I bought a Kanzan cherry tree. I have no idea where I can plant it as I have no suitable place for it. I vow and declare I'm going to stay away from nurseries and garden shops in future unless I know exactly what I'm going there to buy and can resist the temptation to "just look and see what they're selling".

5431. alistairConnor - 9/17/2000 4:33:37 PM

... what on earth are lingonberries?
Loganberries?
Lingamberries?
Klingonberries?

5432. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 4:39:11 PM

alistair

It's a small red berry that is quite bitter, but cooked with sugar it makes an excellent jam of sorts. There is another (proper) name for it which I don't remember but many Americans know it under that name, coined by Swedidh immigrants. If you go to IKEA you can usually get Swedish meatballs with lingonberries.

5433. bubbaette - 9/17/2000 6:28:32 PM

Boy howdy, we just got the deal of the century -- so good that I almost feel guilty about it.

I spent this week tearing out the pitiful tomatos that never really did hit their stride this summer -- small, bug-eaten and not as flavorful as they're supposed to be. I'd already pulled up the last of the onions and the green beans and was not looking forward to tilling up the 10' X 15' space with my trusty digging fork and shovel. The job really kicks my ass and takes about a full day to dig and weed.

We'd been thinking about getting a second hand rototiller, but when we looked this spring, the prices were just about as high for used as for new and we just couldn't afford it. Figuring that we might be able to get a deal in the fall, we looked in the local Trading Post paper. The lowest price for a 5 hp was $200 and it didn't run and was all beat to pieces. The next lowest price was $400 for a 5.5 hp. We went and took a look at it and it looked to be in nice shape but was missing two belts and the electric start didn't work.

Mike gave the pull rope a couple of yanks, but no go -- there was no compression in the motor. We hemmed and hawed for a bit and then Mike decided we could use it if we could buy a new motor he'd seen advertised for $200, so he offered the guy $100 to take it off his hands. We brought it home and Mike took it into the back yard to give it a going over and see what parts it needed. I headed off to the grocery store.

When I came home that bad boy was purring like a kitten and tilling up my garden to beat the band. Turns out that a valve was just stuck.

So we got a $1,100 rototiller for $100 bucks. It pays to be married to a mechanic.

5434. sincerity454 - 9/17/2000 11:00:03 PM

I see there are some true nature lovers over here. Pelle, you are certainly industrious.

I live in the Atlanta area. Summer officially ended this weekend as the temperatures dipped into the fifties at night - it's so lovely to get our first cool front. Soon the leaves will begin to turn and I will be able to enjoy some lovely weekend walks at Kennesaw National Battlefield Park - I love to hear the leaves rustling as they fall.

A barred owl frequents the wooded area behind my house, and we had a lovely time listening to his calls Friday evening. I have been able to identify what type of owl he is with this wonderful site by listening to the various, distinctive calls. Check it out and listen to the call of the
barred owl

5435. CalGal - 9/17/2000 11:31:16 PM

Hey, sincerity. Good to see you back.

5436. Thoughtful - 9/18/2000 10:20:19 AM

pelle, great work on the wood. With oil prices sky high and hubby retiring in 2 weeks, his first job will be to stoke the garage with wood. I got a feeling that wood stove's going to be cranking this winter.

Big scandal on CBS -- keen bird watchers watching their golf shows realized that they were hearing frequent bird calls from birds that had no business being in those areas of the country. CBS confessed they've been adding bird sounds to their broadcast and have promised to stop doing it. Story in today's NY Times.

5437. JudithAtHome - 9/18/2000 3:39:10 PM

What a lame thing to do! That's stooping pretty low...and it's stupid to just throw in any old bird call without researching what types thrive in the area...makes you really wonder about the quality of their news broadcasts.

5438. Ronski - 9/18/2000 3:43:43 PM

I finally got one green tomato to ripen: the variety is called "Aunt Ruby's German Evergreen."

5439. Ronski - 9/18/2000 3:46:01 PM

Btw, lingonberries are related to cranberries. Though smaller than cranberries, the taste is somewhat similar.

5440. Thoughtful - 9/18/2000 4:46:39 PM

Ronski, pardon my ignorance, but how can you tell when a green tomato is ripe?

5441. Thoughtful - 9/18/2000 4:50:36 PM

Find out more about lingonberries.

5442. Ronski - 9/18/2000 5:49:10 PM

It goes from that light apple green color of truly unripe tomatoes (such as those in fried green tomatoes) to an olive green color with a tinge of brown (traces of the usual red or yellow pigment).

5443. ScottLoar - 9/18/2000 5:51:18 PM

Doesn't a ripened scent come along with a ripe tomato regardless of colour?

5444. Ronski - 9/18/2000 6:05:56 PM

That too, and there is also a slight give to the fruit which a stone-hard green tomato does not have. Of course, you don't want it too soft, because then it will surely be mealy inside.

5445. glendajean - 9/18/2000 6:07:41 PM

My tomatoes have gone gangbusters this year. I'm embarrased that I've let a few ripen the vine and fall onto the ground. A terrible waste of great riches.

5446. Ronski - 9/18/2000 6:16:08 PM

We are surrounded by oak trees (white oak, chestnut oak, and a few other varieties). There is this lovely sound as we sit in the den and the acorns pelt the small deck adjacent to the room. We also get bonked from time to time when we are outside.

5447. glendajean - 9/18/2000 6:58:35 PM

Nice image, Ronski.

When we moved to Indy this past winter, the state had suffered a tremendous drought. I pined for living plants, no pun intended.

Fortunately, this summer has been mild and fairly wet, and the heaviness of late summer hangs along the looping, curving street of my little town in tree after billowing tree. I look forward to my evening strolls with the dog, and while often we often come upon pleasant encounters with other neighbors and their dogs, I don't miss those exchanges when it's just the two of us feelong the cool breezes and watching the tips of sunlight reflecting along the treetops.

5448. sincerity454 - 9/18/2000 8:56:00 PM

It's rather interesting that a variety of green tomato has been fashioned, no doubt with the advent of the popular movie. However, down here in the South, we fry plain old everyday green tomatoes, as in unripe ones. The tomato needs to be hard to come out right when you fry it because it will turn to mush if it isn't hard to begin with. So what good is a variety of green tomatoes going to do you? If you let them get ripe, they're no good to you for frying anymore.

5449. labwabbit - 9/18/2000 9:05:10 PM

S-54

True, but they'll have more impact,(a delightful mess),than lingonberries when thrown at whatever your favorite target of convenience might be.

5450. Ronski - 9/19/2000 11:11:52 AM

The green tomatoes (Aunt Ruby's, another I grew once called Tasty Evergreen) are novelties, of course. They are also heirloom tomatoes, old varieties which are becoming popular again because of the range of colors, from pale ivory (called white tomatoes), through pink, purplish red, yellow, orange, and the aforementioned green. Some come in somewhat odd shapes. And the best thing about them is that many are exceptionally flavorful. The green one we had last night was delicious. I saw heirloom tomatoes from California in various shapes and colors being sold in a fancy grocery store on the East Side of Manhattan a few days ago.

5451. Ronski - 9/19/2000 1:21:36 PM

My partner called to say he had gotten a call from Sears trying to interest us in the no-obligation vinyl siding offer, where a representative comes out and sizes up the siding needs of your home.

My partner just politely declined, neglecting to note that we live in a log home.

Of course, I suppose you could cover the logs with siding...

5452. Ronski - 9/19/2000 1:27:43 PM

And if I read the latest maps from NOAA right, it appears they are predicting (with a certain level of uncertainty) a cooler winter for the Northeast than they had been suggesting earlier this year, perhaps something approaching normal levels rather than the above-normal of the last two years.

This is good, if it pans out.

Ski the East!

(But don't stop skiing the West, either.)

5453. Thoughtful - 9/19/2000 1:28:19 PM

Ronski, Ha! We've had the same thing where they call and say they were driving through the neighborhood and noticed our house needs painting -- but we could use siding instead -- of course our house is brick.

5454. Thoughtful - 9/19/2000 1:30:32 PM

My favorite though was when they wanted to give my father-in-law a credit card because of his good credit rating -- of course he's dead 11 years now. I was sorely tempted to charge the card to the limit and use his address as Plot X Section Y....Just let them try to collect.

5455. Thoughtful - 9/19/2000 1:32:08 PM

Our state has started a "don't call" number. If you sign up, then after 1/1/01, telemarketers will not be able to call you to sell stuff. I can't wait. Apparently the 800 # they set up for people to be put on the don't call list has been flooded. Of course telemarketers are miserable about it.

5456. sincerity454 - 9/19/2000 9:52:03 PM

labwabbit -

True, but they'll have more impact,(a delightful mess),than lingonberries when thrown at whatever your favorite target of convenience might be.

LOL - true, but lingonberry-pelting is so much more challenging, and it hurts worse!

5457. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 10:01:08 PM

S-54


FOOD-FIGHT!!!

5458. Ronski - 9/20/2000 12:50:01 PM

The remnants of Gordon gave us two inches of rain, despite earlier predictions by the weather folks that it would go out to sea around Virginia.

Latest weather news for the winter is confusion: a negative Pacific Oscillation has shaped up. The last time this happened was 1945-1970. That was a relatively cold and snowy period in the Northeast (hope springs eternal). But the longrange trend has been for greater warmth nationwide.

The hummingbirds are gone. So are the butterflies, except for a stray monarch. The deer ignore me until I clap my hands. Then they think "N-R-A" and skidaddle.

I planted some sunny yellow Helen's flower, and some purplish hybrid perennial lobelia, both for color next year late in the summer season. This weekend I will buy mums for the deck, and hopefully find some "ice pansies" to fill in the planters with.

The New England and New York asters and the related New York Ironweed and white bolotonia are in bloom. The ones by the road suffered from my lack of attention and too much attention by the deer, but they are producing some color, which is nice.

5459. Thoughtful - 9/22/2000 5:34:04 PM

Ronski, I thought of you today... I was in a meeting where we were discussing the impact of a cold winter on oil prices and I thought of your posting about a colder winter for the northeast. Not good for oil prices, though I know you'll enjoy it.

5460. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 5:43:13 PM

I have several fruit trees in my yard here in Namibia, mainly orange, lemon, and what is called naartjie (pronounced nar-key) here (I think the equivalent of a tangarine.) Anyway, we are in what would be "Spring" here and plants are starting to grow.

When I moved into this house, the former occupants didn't care for the plants in the yard. So many healthy, productive fruit trees died. A couple I trimmed back with the hopes of saving them, and they were saved.

Now, I have a problem. I really haven't a clue about fruit trees. When do they produce fruit? When should I have trimmed them, and how much should I have trimmed them? I assume I should have trimmed them in our winter time, which just passed. But I am really not sure at all. Because Namibia is generally warm all year round, and rarely drops below freezing, these trees seem to produce fruit year round. But the current fruit is small and puny.

In short, I want these trees to produce good fruit, which they can do here in Namibia. But I don't know how to get it done.

Any help?

5461. Thoughtful - 9/22/2000 5:48:48 PM

K the H, maybe this will help.

5462. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 5:57:35 PM

Excellent thoughtful! I very helpful hotlink. I really appreciate it.

5463. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 5:58:20 PM

That should of course be "A very helpful hotlink."

5464. glendajean - 9/22/2000 6:15:35 PM

Thoughtful -- as usual, excellent link.

Kuligin -- one of the best ways to learn gardening (tending to plants, making them healthy) is to ask locals who have knowledge and interest in similar plants.

I say that knowing nothing of the culture where you live, but surely there must be somebody who is successful in growing fruit trees, and they may have valuable information to share with you. It is ironic that simple cultures often have right-on-target low tech answers for watering or feeding the trees, a sense of the best time to prune, and/or treat diseases that affect your trees (as opposed to modern short-cuts & practices like excessive use of chemicals) that deplete the soil and make plants more susceptible to disease or pests.

But be careful. A plant or tree, like pets, can become more than just a plant, it can be a great way to relax, and you might find yourself enjoying being a better fruit grower!

5465. KuligintheHooligan - 9/22/2000 6:32:45 PM

glendajean,

Thanks for the advice! Actually, my neighbors are, for the most part, ignorant of these things. They don't seem to spend much time on their yards, which I think comes with the urban mentality here in Windhoek. Plus, water is relatively expensive here.

Your last comment is dead on. Until returning to Namibia last July, I really had little to no interest in plants and such. But since coming back, I got some ideas about how to make the yard more colorful and attractive, and I have really enjoyed doing it!

The only setback has been the eating habits of my dogs! They can't seem to get enough ruffage. :(

5466. glendajean - 9/22/2000 6:35:34 PM

Vic -- anytime you come across a place where the trees are tended (in another city, at an embassy or institution, see if you can talk to the gardener).

What kind of dogs do you have?

5467. cmboyce - 9/22/2000 7:51:05 PM

Ah, Pelle, that's an amazing job of work, there. What kind of wood is that? Is this the supply for a winter of weekending, or are you up there more often?

How I'd love to have a resident raven! I love all the corvines, even the jays. In my footloose youth, I lived for a while in the mountains of Big Sur, in a cabin with a roofed but only partially walled kitchen—3/8 of the perimeter was open to the woods—redwood and tanoak. Every morning there were two or three, once 6!!, Steller's jays (Cyanocitta stelleri, gorgeously handsome charcoal gray and electric blue beasts, that had to be persuaded to vacate the premises. They remain one of my favorite birds, though I rarely see one anymore; my visits to CA don't often take me to the redwoods.

5468. KuligintheHooligan - 9/23/2000 5:52:56 AM

glendajean

I complained about the dog issue before. One is a pure breed Alsatian (German Shepherd), the other two mutts of some sort. I think one is a cross between a German Shepherd and a Rotwieler, the other I am not really sure. The Alsatian is about 3 years old now, the other two just turned one, so they are really still "pups" in some sense.

I think the smell of certain plants was just too much for them to refuse. Other plants they don't bother with at all. It may be, too, that they suffered from idleness at times, as some in this thread intimated a couple months back.

Recently, though, I have had little trouble with them eating the plants. For some reason, they particularly liked mango! I lost two small trees that way, but they never touched the guava one. I figure they didn't mess with the lemon trees because of the thorns.

5469. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 6:49:04 AM

Today was a beautiful clear frosty morning here. When I drove my wife to work at 7.30 there were six hot air balloons floating above the city centre.

5470. JudithAtHome - 9/23/2000 9:31:15 AM

What is the Farmers Almanac adage about lichen or moss growing on certain sides of tress as a predictor of winter temperatures? I've been noticing a lot of growth on the north sides of trees and am hoping it means a cold winter.....

5471. Nostradamus - 9/23/2000 10:20:39 AM

It says that if moss is growing on the North side of trees, it's a sign that temperatures will be cooler in the winter than they were in the summer.

Moss always grows on the north side of trees (except, presumably, in the southern hemisphere or near the equator). If you'll take a close look, Judith, I think you'll find that moss and lichens aren't equipped with legs.

5472. Nostradamus - 9/23/2000 10:24:17 AM

Incidentally, you're obviously confusing what you read as a navigational tool for outdoorsmen with something you read in the Farmer's Almanac.

5473. Jenerator - 9/23/2000 10:27:12 AM

HEY!!

Did you pull an all-nighter Jon? What are you doing up this early?

5474. JudithAtHome - 9/23/2000 10:37:05 AM

Jeez, what a friendly way to start the day. Thank you so very much for your response, oh great seer into the future. Next time I "confuse" things, feel free to ignore me.

Jen, you have more patience than I.

5475. JudithAtHome - 9/23/2000 10:40:18 AM

And by the way, Nos, I'm not a friggin' lumberjack nor do I make it a habit to collect info for outdoorsmen...trees are for shade, not navigation. (Unless they are cut down and fashioned into ships.)

5476. Nostradamus - 9/23/2000 10:59:17 AM

Hey Jen,

It ain't that early, 10:24 when I wrote that.

Judith

Don't be so thin-skinned. I may even be wrong about what I said, although that's what I recall from Cubs and/or my land nav courses in ROTC. At any rate, it strikes me as preposterous that moss and lichens would start sliding around a tree depending on what the weather this winter will be like.

5477. JudithAtHome - 9/23/2000 11:04:24 AM

Okay, speaking of skin, I'll try to stick to predicting the coldness of winter by checking the furriness if squirrels...have you heard that one? :-)

5478. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 11:54:55 AM

Moss and lichen do indeed grow on the north side. These species are not known for their weather predicting abilities. However, if they are healthier then they were, it may indicate that air pollution is down.

5479. JudithAtHome - 9/23/2000 12:01:04 PM

Pelle:

To tell the truth, I only casually glanced at this tree as we drove by....I have no idea if it even had moss before, much less if it is healthier. I seriously doubt there is evidence of less air pollution here, though, because I live in George W. Bushs state and he is rather unconcerned about the quality of our air.

5480. thoughtful - 9/23/2000 4:23:03 PM

See a stellar's jay here.

5481. PelleNilsson - 9/23/2000 4:28:53 PM

Beautiful. We don't have him in Sweden.

5482. Jenerator - 9/23/2000 5:47:21 PM

Judith,

Just admit it, you're a lumberjack (who sells antiques on the side!)

5483. sincerity454 - 9/24/2000 10:30:22 AM

I have a postcard from Muir Woods at my desk with a photo of the Stellar's Jay whose acquaintance I made there. He is a bold fellow who hangs out at the foot of a pathway near the parking lot. He has been fed by the tourists so much that he is completely and totally unafraid of people. We had brought sandwiches and we were sitting down to eat them when he made his appearance, looking at us expectantly. Naturally we were more than happy to share our lunch with him. He was no more than a foot away, and as other people came and went, remarking on his beauty, he didn't even flinch. He was a very beautiful, impressive bird.

If any of you ever go to Muir Woods, bring something to eat and stop at the path that starts in the parking lot that leads to Stinson Beach - perhaps you'll meet him.

Lots of people dislike jays because they are so bold, but I think their plucky nature is admirable.

5484. bubbaette - 9/25/2000 7:57:05 AM

Pretty bird. We have blue jays in my neighborhood who will move into a defensive position at my birdfeeders and harrass any other birds who come to eat. I don't like that, but I am amused at the way they pick on cats.

There used to be a red-winged blackbird at the Arch Park at the foot of the St. Louis Arch who would dive bomb passers by. I was visiting for a conference and went to the park for my daily walk wearing headphones. Every day the bird caught me by surprise either coming or going.

5485. Thoughtful - 9/25/2000 10:01:00 AM

Your story reminds me of a dog we once had. When she was a young pup and we were working outside, she was ambling her way around the yard. All of a sudden she was by us and clearly concerned. We calmed her down and she started ambling away again. This time we watched more closely only to find that as she got near our mountain ash, a couple of birds started dive-bombing her. I don't remember if they were finches or sparrows or such, but she was clearly afraid. Musta been a nest in the tree.

Out of my window at work I often see crows gang up on and chase the red-tailed hawk around. Fascinating given the relative size of the birds.

5486. Ronski - 9/25/2000 12:02:24 PM

A foot of snow in the Wyoming mountains over the weekend, and snow also in Colorado, Nebraska and even a bit in Kansas.

Big meltdown today, however.

5487. Ronski - 9/25/2000 1:15:23 PM

We have determined that the deck planter which did best this year was planted with the following: Celosia (the standard tall kind) started from seed in the planter, just as the pansies and knee-high sweet peas were finishing, interplanted with some plumbago (light sky blue), and some lavendar lantana.

I'll do more of this next year.

Also, down in the garden where the deer roam, once again they have left the snapdragons alone. So I'm going crazy with snaps next year. I don't think I've ever seen them listed as deer-resistant, but they seem to be.

5488. cmboyce - 9/25/2000 7:03:52 PM

Thanks for that link, Thoughtful.

The picture does not quite do justice to the bird, though, in that it doesn't show his spectacular "eyebrows", bold vertical dashes of bright iridescent blue, the same blue as his rearward half (much brighter in most lights than in the picture), that give him the look of a commedia del'arte character of some sort, most likely a comic villain.

5489. cmboyce - 9/25/2000 7:19:52 PM

Here's another picture of the Stellar's jay. I see my memory misled me as to the location of those "eyebrows"—but not as to their effect.

5490. glendajean - 9/26/2000 11:01:46 AM

Fall is hitting big time, and I have no energy. Usually I am chomping at the bit this time of year to plant bulbs, move bushes and shrubs, and divide perennials. Oh, and dig beds. Perfect time to create a new bed. The ground is fairly soft, weeds and grass comes up much easier. My muse has left me.

5491. bubbaette - 9/26/2000 11:12:17 AM

I know what you mean, GJ. It took me about 3 weeks to talk myself up to triming the rangy parts off my azalea bushes. I have 120 tulip bulbs on order and am not looking forward to their arrival. I haven't weeded the flower beds for weeks.

5492. theDiva - 9/26/2000 11:14:09 AM

Tell me what youse think about this.

I want to establish some new beds for spring. What I thought I'd do is put down a thick layer of newspaper and cover it with lotsa cheapo mulch. I read where that kills off all the stuff underneath and makes digging the beds easier. So is now a good time to do that?

5493. bubbaette - 9/26/2000 11:21:48 AM

sounds like a plan to me, Diva. We used black plastic this spring, but it didn't kill everything.

5494. theDiva - 9/26/2000 11:25:15 AM

okay, so then in the spring I can just all that rotted stuff right into the beds? And then maybe add some peat humus?

I've decided to go the glenda/bubba route and stop growing sod. Vinca in place of the front lawn on either side of the walk, herbs and perennials on the slope at the side of the house, veggies in the back.

5495. glendajean - 9/26/2000 11:32:24 AM

I would add a couple of ingredients to your mixture, lovely Diva.

First, I would put down straw. Then, mix in horse manure. Then do everything else that you said.

Good horse manure will break that stuff down fast.

Ah, you ask, what about the smell factor? It's gone fairly quickly (couple of days), and if you cover it that will help. The end result is a rich, fertile soil.

Where do you get the manure? Well, you live in "horse" country. I used to get mine at the Park Service Riding Stables in Rock Creek Park (just past & underneath the Duke Ellington Bridge on Beach drive -- off of the Rock Creek Parkway). They let people shovel all they want.

5496. theDiva - 9/26/2000 11:35:49 AM

Good tips, thanks. (My hubby Mr. Clean is gonna love the horse manure bit) So the layers should be straw, newspaper, horse poo, mulch?

5497. glendajean - 9/26/2000 11:41:05 AM

Bubba may have a better idea. I'd put straw, manure, newspaper, mulch. Be sure and dampen the newspaper & straw, too.

5498. glendajean - 9/26/2000 11:42:27 AM

Diva -- the fresher the manure, the "hotter" it will be, working much faster. Of course, the hottest manure is chicken, but you must make sure that it composts well, or it will burn your plants.

5499. theDiva - 9/26/2000 11:43:21 AM

I wonder if it's okay for me to work with manure now. I'm not supposed to go near the catbox.

5500. Ronski - 9/26/2000 11:47:06 AM

glenda,

Perhaps the big move has sapped your energy at bit. That happens to me from time to time, when I've been under some pressure. The urge to make the earth bloom better always returns eventually.

5501. glendajean - 9/26/2000 11:48:54 AM

Diva -- excellent point. I do know that feces of carnivores particularly have damaging bacteria to humans (and why expectant moms cannot go near the cat box).

When my puppy ate his (I almost passed out, called the vet, they said it was normal and to put Lowry's Meat Tenderizer on it to give it a lousy taste. As far as I know, he hasn't done it since).

Horses, chickens and cows produces high-octane compost of the grasses they eat, and it is teeming with bacterias that will break down the organic materials. While they are safer for humans, I try to limit skin contact.

In your case, I would ask spouse to spare you from interaction with the manure.

5502. bubbaette - 9/26/2000 11:49:07 AM

Horse manure isn't bad in the smell dept. Chicken manure -- now that's a different story and your Mormon neighbors are likely to object. It is a good idea to compost (and lime if you need it) in the fall.

5503. glendajean - 9/26/2000 11:51:13 AM

Ronski -- You're right about the move. I don't really have a garden here, and I need to start one. When I moved to DC, I started it immediately. Here, I've waited. I'm probably slightly depressed over leaving my last garden.

5504. theDiva - 9/26/2000 11:53:37 AM

Glenda

oh God. We're gonna have to pass on the horse manure. No way is Greg gonna go near that. You should hear him carry on about the catbox. Plan B: Straw, newspaper, peat humus, mulch. Yes?

Bubba

Aw hell. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on, what with their five hound dogs and the smells they got comin from their yard.

5505. glendajean - 9/26/2000 12:00:23 PM

Diva -- ask your doctor. If you pass on compost, buy bags of composted humus at Lowes or Home Depot and put that in the mix. And maybe compost starter (its usually in granular form).

5506. glendajean - 9/26/2000 12:00:41 PM

that should read, if you pass on manure...

5507. theDiva - 9/26/2000 12:03:20 PM

yes, I'll check tomorrow. Thanks.

5508. theDiva - 9/26/2000 12:14:58 PM

Bubb

Lime now?

5509. bubbaette - 9/26/2000 12:21:36 PM

yeah. It takes a while for lime to fix in the soil.

5510. theDiva - 9/26/2000 12:27:50 PM

And put that underneath everything, so that my layers will be

lime
straw
newspaper
maybe some form of dung
mulch

???

5511. PelleNilsson - 9/26/2000 12:51:45 PM

Won't touch horse manure? Finicky about a little cat shit? And how will this strong, big, manly man comport himself when asked to change diapers?

We can buy composted horse manure here which hardly smells at all. Not avilable in your area?

5512. glendajean - 9/26/2000 12:58:32 PM

Pelle -- for some reason, horse manure is rarely if ever marketed at the large hardware or nursery stores. Instead, you can buy cow manure (which has been bleached of most of its bacteria after traveling through the two stomachs of a cow, or so I've been told).

The National Zoo in DC sells ZooDoo, which is quite exotic. Supposedly one is not supposed to use it for vegetable plants, but it can be used for flowers and shrubs.

5513. theDiva - 9/26/2000 12:58:42 PM

excuse you, Pelle.

My husband cleans the catbox daily, changes the litter and sterilizes it with Lysol and hot water weekly. In addition to which he does all the cleaning and laundry in the house because I can no longer touch chemicals of any kind. He does all the heavy work because I can no longer do it. He drives carpool two days a week. And works 3:30-midnight from Tuesday to Friday.

So asking him to shovel horsehit would be a bit unfair, especially if I have other options.

And, when he was in his early 20s his mother had a baby; he was active in the care of the boy, including diaper changing. I expect he will do the same for our child.

5514. theDiva - 9/26/2000 1:00:12 PM

Tuesday to Saturday.

5515. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 1:05:08 PM

There seems to be a great disparity in definitons of "man-ly men" these days.

For example I believe man-ly men don't clean cat-boxes...they kick cats when woman aren't looking.

5516. labwabbit - 9/26/2000 1:30:21 PM

You DO realize Diva, that I'm kidding you.

I am in full realization that *any* man who can satisfy you is truly man-ly.
*grin*

5517. theDiva - 9/26/2000 1:43:52 PM

Nothing I have ever said to anyone in this forum would indicate that I find ridicule of my husband to be acceptable or amusing.

5518. bubbaette - 9/26/2000 1:49:28 PM

Diva

I'd put everything under the newspaper except for the mulch that you are using to hold the newspaper down. I don't know that the order makes much difference, though GJ may have a different opinion.

5519. theDiva - 9/26/2000 1:51:02 PM

That's gonna be quite the mound. Okay. Thanks.

5520. bubbaette - 9/26/2000 1:53:15 PM

If you lived nearby I'd give you a couple wheelbarrows full of my compost --it's good stuff with not a speck of manure of any sort (except maybe small quantities from birds and squirrels. Plus it's crawling with earthworms.

5521. theDiva - 9/26/2000 1:56:43 PM

You know, we got a big ole pile of stuff inside our back fence...I've been tossing clippings and branches and whatnot over there for years. Think that would work as compost? Right now I've got a little picket in front of it and some morning glories growing on top - it's off to the side and you can't see it from the patio so we stick our garbage cans over there.

5522. Thoughtful - 9/26/2000 1:59:34 PM

speaking of manure -- does anyone know what bats "do?" I know guano is supposed to be very good fertilizer, but I never saw it...is it little pellets like rodents make? The reason I'm asking is I noticed a bunch of pellets in the corner of the doorway on the porch. I figured something was hanging out there but wasn't sure what. One night, I opened up the door to look for the cat and a creature flew out from the upper corner of the door -- I'm assuming it was a bat. We have them around and it looked dark -- though I only got a glimpse as it flew away. That would explain the droppings.

5523. theDiva - 9/26/2000 2:02:22 PM

ack! I hate, hate, HATE bats.

5524. Thoughtful - 9/26/2000 2:06:00 PM

Sorry, diva, I've given to bat conservation international....I recognize that though many are not attractive, there is a lot of good that they do, including eating 2000 bugs a night -- including those that spread the West Nile Virus and equine encephalitis, both of which have been plaguing our area.

5525. theDiva - 9/26/2000 2:07:19 PM

I know. They just scare the bejeebers outta me.

5526. glendajean - 9/26/2000 2:15:59 PM

Bats Conservation Inter. is in Austin, Texas, where jillions of them live under the Congress Avenue Bridge in the middle of town. It's quite a sight to see them come out at night in the summer.

Thoughtful -- guano is powerful manure, but also contains some dangerous bacteria. I know a woman in Texas who used to put it in her garden and she had a cut or scratch and ended up with some rare disease that doctors hadn't seen in 40 years. Finally, they asked her if she had been around bats.

So wear rubber gloves (if that is what it is). Also, if you see a bat on the ground, don't touch it. They carry rabies. But yes, they do incredible work eating mosquitos.

5527. theDiva - 9/26/2000 2:19:39 PM

oh, God, did she end up traveling only at night and developing an aversion to garlic?

5528. glendajean - 9/26/2000 2:37:55 PM

No, she nearly died. I should clarify -- she was applying the guano onto her garden beds, and the bacteria came in contact with a cut in her skin.

5529. theDiva - 9/26/2000 2:39:36 PM

Yipes. That's awful.




skulks away shamefacedly.

5530. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 2:41:25 PM

"ack! I hate, hate, HATE bats."

Diva, remind me sometime to tell you my story from my childhood, when a bat snuck into our house and actually landed on my shoulder while I slept one night!!

5531. theDiva - 9/26/2000 2:43:13 PM

eeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

just the thought makes me crazy.

5532. Nostradamus - 9/26/2000 2:43:53 PM

Bats are okay. Much nicer outdoors than in. Centipedes, on the other hand, are downright evil. Those little speedy fuckers make my skin crawl.

5533. theDiva - 9/26/2000 2:44:17 PM

them little flat ones? Yuck.

5534. Nostradamus - 9/26/2000 2:46:09 PM

No, the flat ones that you find under rocks (I think of those as millipedes, but I may be wrong) aren't so bad. It's the speedy ones that look 'hairy' that seem to cover about 5 feet per second as they scuttle across the floor that just freak me out.

5535. glendajean - 9/26/2000 2:48:11 PM

She did develop an incredible ability to maneuver at night and a yearning to hang upside down in the day time But no other effects.

5536. Ronski - 9/26/2000 2:48:30 PM

I like centipedes, and millipedes, which we seem to have a lot of around our house in woods.

I like lots of critters, but not when they make their home in our attic.

I am destined to do some major trapping of red squirrels and transporting them to new homes ten or so miles away. Then, getting the entry spots sealed for good.

We have gotten the mice out, however, through the use of those sonic devices (and an energetic young kitty doesn't hurt either).

5537. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 2:53:40 PM

Ronski,

You like gutteral sounds and centipedes?!! :-)

Nos, the hairy ones are the centipedes. The roundish ones are the millipedes. The millipedes here in Namibia grow VERY large, some over a foot long.

Yes, Diva, it actually landed on my neck and woke me up!!

5538. KuligintheHooligan - 9/26/2000 2:54:37 PM

A sting from one of those hairy centipedes can be quite painful too.

5539. theDiva - 9/26/2000 2:55:04 PM

(freaks completely out)

5540. glendajean - 9/26/2000 2:55:22 PM

Ronski -- we had quite a chipmonk problem in my backyard until I got my little dog that was bred to hunt vermin. He seems to have at least kept them to the edges of the yard. It's been along time since I've found a new tunnel.

5541. Ronski - 9/26/2000 3:12:24 PM

The problem with our red squirrels (also known as flying squirrels) is they live in the insulation in the roof, and so it is hard to get at them. We have been told by friends who replaced their insulation with a kind that is made of cellulose (from old newspapers) and pumped in, that the squirrels really hate that stuff and once they did that, they had no more problems. (They had first driven the critters out with very loud music.)

We are going to outwit them, because they are a danger to electrical wiring.

5542. PelleNilsson - 9/26/2000 3:52:57 PM

Diva Message # 5513

It was not at all meant as ridicule, but as a good-natured joke. I'm sorry it back-fired. Very sorry.

5543. Thoughtful - 9/26/2000 3:53:26 PM

Squirrels can do incredible damage in a house. I don't know what they recommend for sealing entry points, but I know there is the plumbing stuff that comes in a can and expands to fill the space. Supposed to be used around pipes in the walls to keep them from rattling. Always looked like it would be good hole-plugging stuff but I don't know if it can get wet or not.

KtheH, I would imagine in Namibia you have all kinds of incredible creatures that would just freak us Nor'easterners out. I have enough trouble dealing with the palmetto bugs when I visit my folks in FL. Eeewww.

One of my least favorite creatures: earwigs. Eewww. And I hate TICKS! There was a show on the other night about all the nasty diseases ticks carry including some we don't know about yet: Lyme, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and Babisiosis.

5544. theDiva - 9/26/2000 3:57:16 PM

Pelle

Thank you. All is forgiven.

(Bubba, put the rack away.)

5545. theDiva - 9/26/2000 3:59:10 PM

(note to Glenda...normally this is a very jovial thread and I made the tone kinda cranky. I apologize. Feel free to move my grumpiness to the Cafe.)

5546. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 4:03:38 PM

When I lived in Okinawa, we would see fruit bats that measured a foot or more from wingtip to wingtip (and those shoes keep falling off the little suckers when they flew!).


Now that it's getting cooler, let's post some good recipes for stews and my fave, CHILI. On Sunday, Parade magazine ran the Chili Cookoff Winners and the first prize went to someone who put a cinnamon stick in her chili...I nearly swooned. Wacko! There wasn't one recipe from Texas in the lot, either.

The recipe thread has languished long enough; let's hear it for Chili and Beef Stew and great slow cooking soups that take all day and are served with crusty bread. Hearty winter food!

(Can anyone tell it got into the 40s last night and only up to 70s today? I'm delerious with the "cold front"!)

5547. theDiva - 9/26/2000 4:05:35 PM

I made some chili on Sunday to bring to our choir potluck. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

and I saw that thing with the cinnamon stick. Eeek! I can't imagine.

5548. glendajean - 9/26/2000 4:07:53 PM

Juditha -- we smoked a brisket for 12 hours on Saturday that was incredible.

Our little neighborhood has an annual chili cook-off in October. Of course, there is a decided difference of opinion among Hoosiers and the few Texans in the neighborhood about the definition of chili. They believe in spicy tomato soup and still have a difficult time understanding the primacy of beef.

For years, I've used the Wick Fowler One Alarm (mild), which is just packaged spices. I brown the meet, add the spices, add sauteed garlic and onion, tomato sauce and tomatoes, and beer. The meat is always coarse ground beef.

5549. glendajean - 9/26/2000 4:09:12 PM

And I never put chili on pasta or eat it that way!

I did grow up with beans in the chili. My partner thinks that is a mortal sin.

5550. Ronski - 9/26/2000 4:10:15 PM

We had temps in the 40s last night, too. My partner made ancho chili with kielbasa (kelbos in Czech).

He calls it "Czech and Mex."

It was delicious, however mongrelized.

5551. theDiva - 9/26/2000 4:11:21 PM

hahaha!

I could never understand chili on pasta. shudder

5552. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 4:11:44 PM

GJ:

I love the Wick Fowler!!! I use it, too, but add a bay leaf and garlic.

I like beans in my chili but due to a restriction on carbs that is contributing to my slow weight loss, I plan to leave them out this winter.

5553. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 4:13:56 PM

There is a really good thing called "ChiliMac" that is made with leftover chili and macaroni and cheese...I know, I know, it sounds disgusting but it's better than it sounds.

5555. glendajean - 9/26/2000 4:14:52 PM

I'll try the bay leaf for our cook-off.

5556. glendajean - 9/26/2000 4:15:49 PM

This is a civil thread. Attack people here and the posts will be deleted.

5557. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 4:18:13 PM

Well, get ready to slash and dash, GJ...he seems determined to follow me everywhere and act like a snotty child.

5558. theDiva - 9/26/2000 4:20:18 PM

Hey, try guajillo chiles, youse guys. They add a nice kick, without being absolutely throat-roasting, with an almost apricot flavor. Really nice.

5559. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 4:20:34 PM

Re: Message # 5551, theDiva.

I could never understand chili on pasta.

really?

5560. Ronski - 9/26/2000 4:20:37 PM

I limit the kind of things I mix with pasta mostly to the tried and true Italian stuff. Even when I eat pastichio, or Greek pasta, I feel like I am doing something faintly wrong.

I don't feel that way about Chinese noodles, Japanese soba, etc., however. They're delightful.

5561. theDiva - 9/26/2000 4:22:37 PM

ducky

Lordy. Sacrilege! It's just too weird. Ronski has it right.

You can spice up pasta in any number of ways and still remain in the tradition of Italian cooking. I figure, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

5562. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 4:25:38 PM

tis good Diva

i'd never heard of it before moving to Cincinnati area, and figured it was onea dem odd mid-western thangs, but i kinda like it now.

go figure

5563. glendajean - 9/26/2000 4:25:44 PM

It's an Ohio thing. Finely ground beef, chili and spaghetti.

5564. glendajean - 9/26/2000 4:26:37 PM

Somebody told me that Chili was invented as a way to prepare and eat beef that had gone bad, so to speak.

5565. Thoughtful - 9/26/2000 4:32:37 PM

I love crockpot cooking as I get to do the cooking and clean up in the a.m. and then when supper time comes -- my meal's all set and the kitchen is clean, just like I had a maid.

This weekend I tried something new. Dad had a lot of green peppers in the garden and hubby loves sausage and peppers, but I refuse to make it given his cholesterol issue. Well, I made it this weekend with turkey "italian" sausage. The mild was too bland but the spicy sausage wasn't bad. Next time I'll make it with all spicy. I actually preferred the turkey sausage as it was more meaty than the pork stuff. Though it is still a high fat food -- 50% of calories from fat.

As those of you who know me know, I make things fast and easy. Cut up the sausage into quarters and throw it in the crock pot. Cut up the peppers into bite size chunks and throw it in the pot. Dump a jar of your choice of tomato sauce on top and cook away on low for 10 hrs or high for 4-5. Serve over hot pasta. Or on a grinder roll for lunch. Sprinkle with parm.

5566. theDiva - 9/26/2000 4:39:59 PM

Good old crockpot. That sounds tasty, thoughtful.

Usually I make my chili on the stove but this weekend, taking Riv's cue, I cooked it in the crockpot after prepping all the ingredients. My Lord, but it was good.

I make a sauce of tomatoes, celery and onions. Then I saute red peppers, red onions, and a smashed garlic clove in some olive oil. The veggies come out of the pan and I brown chunks of beef (floured) in the flavored oil. The meat comes out; I deglaze the pan with a mixture of pureed guajillo chiles and their water, apple cider and balsamic vinegars. Sauce, veggies, meat, and pan juices go into a pot with brown sugar, a bit chile powder, a handful of fresh oregano, salt, and a bay leaf. This cooks forever. For the deluxe version, I add sliced, pitted black olives and grated cheddar during the last half hour of cooking.

It is fab.

5567. Thoughtful - 9/26/2000 4:56:54 PM

Diva, sounds good -- and there's something mysterious about a crockpot--the long slow cooking brings out a lot of flavor, but it doesn't cook the veggies --sometimes I precook the veggies for stew in the microwave because even after 12 hrs the potatoes may still be tough if you don't.

BTW, I love balsamic vinegar. Definitely a good thing.

5568. theDiva - 9/26/2000 4:59:11 PM

yeah, I find with the crockpot that the veggies don't quite come as flavorful if I don't saute them first.

This is making me hungry. Gracie and I are off to join friends for dinner. Have a good evening!

5569. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 5:00:01 PM

My new fave chicken dish at our Italian place has a demiglaze of balsamic vinegar and wine with mushrooms, roasted red peppers, and sun dried tomatoes; wonderful flavor.

5570. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 5:01:01 PM

It's called Chicken Modena...from whence balsamic vinegar comes.

5571. Thoughtful - 9/26/2000 5:23:12 PM

I was flipping channels the other day and saw some Italian cook on. (heavy set strawberry blond guy with a beard). He said there was balsamic vinegar and then balsamic vinegar. He showed a tiny little bottle from Italy (maybe 1/4 to 1/2 c.) which he said costs $75 in Italy! He says that's why he uses it sparingly in cooking -- as a treat. I wonder what that other stuff I'm using is....I know I don't pay that much for perfume!

5572. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 5:27:23 PM

Well, you can get fairly good balsamic from Modena for about $12-$15 for a 10 ounce bottle. I'd love to taste the really expensive stuff, though...I saw a show about it once and it is aged in wodden casks, just like wine.

5573. ChristinO - 9/26/2000 5:28:05 PM

Thoughtful,

Ever try the Morning Star vegetarian sausages? They're very good particularly if you're making a dish with sausage that isn't necessarily about sausage.

5574. Ronski - 9/26/2000 5:32:18 PM

The Space Weather folks are saying that a mass coronal ejection may produce auroras starting tomorrow night through part of the weekend.

Keep watching the skies.

5575. Ronski - 9/26/2000 5:34:07 PM

I do like the meat substitutes that are made from texturized vegetable protein (TVP), although they tend to be rather high in sodium which is not great for me.

5576. ChristinO - 9/26/2000 5:34:56 PM

Ronski,

Where should we be looking and at what time? Is this regional or global?

5577. janjon - 9/26/2000 5:37:24 PM

I find most balsamic vinegar to be cloying (too sweet) and overwhelming in most recipes or salads. Give me a really good (which doesn't mean expensive) French red wine vinegar anyday.

I have had really expensive Balsamic vinegars, sometimes just to sip, like at the end of the meal. That can be terrific. But, generally speaking, nah.

5578. SnowOwl - 9/26/2000 5:44:18 PM

I think balsamic vinegar is overused these days. It's become trendy and too many people slop it into everything and anything. I like it in moderation and in some dishes but hate the tendency to use it indiscriminately.

5579. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 5:48:57 PM

Look, I live in Texas and anything other than cream gravy is a treat to me...you've no idea how lovely it is to eat something that isn't "chicken fried" and dredged in cream gravy or doused with jalapenos. This isn't exactly Nirvana as far as cuisine goes...every order is followed by "you want friiiiieees with that?" Even desserts...

5580. Ronski - 9/26/2000 5:54:21 PM

They have not yet pinpointed it down to a time. Sometimes they can do that. But it's too early, and this burst is not all that strong, just strong enough for them to issue an alert.

You look mostly straight up, and a little towards the Northern, Eastern, and Western horizons (in the Northern Hemisphere).

It is all hit and miss, because you can never be sure you will see something, and there is no point to hanging out there all night, as you will more than likely be disappointed. It's just that if you know it's a possibility, it's good to take a peek at the sky from time to time just in case, since the rewards are big if they show up.

During the big show last summer, I had friends in New Jersey and New York who had no idea they were coming and saw these wonderful shows -- lots of red color -- while I never saw a thing, even though I went outside a few times until bedtime.

5581. janjon - 9/26/2000 6:02:00 PM

Judith. Fries with balsamic vinegar actually sounds appealing. With a lot of salt and possibly a bit of good French mustard whipped into the vinegar.

5582. SnowOwl - 9/26/2000 6:11:07 PM

Balsamic vinegar and mustard on fries!!! No, no, no! They must be eaten drenched in malt vinegar and straight out of a newspaper packet.

5583. JudithAtHome - 9/26/2000 6:11:46 PM

janjon:

I don't eat fries but it does sound pretty good...

5584. janjon - 9/26/2000 6:12:39 PM

judith - I don't either, but if I did....

5585. Ronski - 9/27/2000 10:37:35 AM

Yes. Malt vinegar only, on fries.

5586. Wombat - 9/27/2000 10:43:04 AM

I have never had British fries--chips--that were not disgustingly limp and soggy, and vinegar only made them more so. Now Belgian fries, crisp shoestrings, are delicious, even if they serve them with mayonnaise. Ketchup for me.

5587. PelleNilsson - 9/27/2000 10:45:55 AM

It is not easy to get good fries any more. Too many places use the reconstituted stuff.

5588. JudithAtHome - 9/27/2000 10:51:58 AM

We loved the excellent Belgian pomme frittes and my husband was thrilled because he's always eaten fries with mayo...it's a thing Hawaiians do. (Maybe Father Damien taught them that...ha!)

5589. JudithAtHome - 9/27/2000 10:52:48 AM

I was just kidding with that last post and not making fun of Father Damien by any means...

5590. Wombat - 9/27/2000 10:54:58 AM

I like Nathan's fries. you can tell that they come from a potato (and those little red forks...), and they are not undercooked.

5591. PelleNilsson - 9/27/2000 10:56:46 AM

For good fries it is of course essential to apply the two-stage process. First fry on moderate heat until ready (or nearly so). Take them up a spread out to drain on a newspaper. Increase heat and put the fries in again until golden brown. The outer layer will now be crispy while the innards are soft.

The newspaper matters. I always use the International Herald Tribune.

5592. bubbaette - 9/27/2000 11:14:29 AM

Mike likes fries with mayo. Another questionable habit he picked up while serving in the army.

5593. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 11:44:31 AM

ChristinO, yeah, we eat the morningstar veggie burgers -- or boca burgers or whatever. I am not a fan of sausage so I don't tend to eat them anyway, but hubby insists on his "grease-ball" breakfast every Sat. a.m. I've gotten him to "degrease"it slightly with low-fat choices like the veggie sausages or candian bacon and a low-fat muffin. But his egg fried in butter is de rigueur. We tried the egg-white fake stuff, but he won't eat it.

I'll use the eggwhite stuff for a sandwich sometimes -- spray a bowl with Pam, add eggwhite stuff and sprinkle with garlic powder, salt, pepper, and break up some mozzarella cheese in it. Microwave on high for about 1 min -- depending on your microwave. It will blow up almost out of the bowl. Stir to scramble and microwave again until it's cooked -- maybe 30 sec. Serve on a toasted english muffin. You can also add onion, peppers, whatever to the mix.

5594. janjon - 9/27/2000 11:52:22 AM

is the "eggwhite stuff" you are referring to Eggbeaters? If so, using real egg whites (the separation from the yolk part is fun), especially in an omelet, results in a far superior taste. For some reason they even end up with a slightly yellow tinge. Depending on how much your husband looks at his food, I suspect you could slip him an egg-white omelet (with innards like a bit of diced ham, green peppers and onion), made by cooking it in olive oil instead of butter, and he wouldn't really notice the difference. He also would be miles ahead in terms of cholesterol. Both in terms of avoiding same re the egg yolks, and in getting some of the good stuff through the olive oil.

Chow.

5595. JudithAtHome - 9/27/2000 11:52:55 AM

I make eggwhite omelets in an omelet pan with Pam...

5596. janjon - 9/27/2000 11:55:02 AM

that would work well, too. I've never really tried Pam, but it presumably would work both from a cholesterol and calorie point of view.

5597. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 12:52:35 PM

janjon, thanks for the suggestion, but it won't fly. I would suggest he try his eggs with two whites and one yolk, but he only eats one egg a week anyway. I tried egg in Pam and he doesn't like it. While he likes olive oil on his salad I know he'd never go for it or even canola oil on his egg.

I really can't complain though. He's dropped his cholesterol 30 points and now his hdl is above normal and his ldl is low, and he's dropped 8 lbs. (though he wasn't overweight to begin with.) He's done it mostly by substituting low fat choices for higher ones. He did have to give up his donuts and pastries he used to like for breakfast, but he likes the oatmeal and cereal instead and will opt for low-fat/no-fat pastry once a week. He switched to low-fat pound cake with lunch and is eating the fat-free sandwich meats instead of the regular ones. And with his drink at night he's eating low-fat cheese instead of regular. It's good to know it can be done without too much effort.

5598. janjon - 9/27/2000 1:05:10 PM

thoughtful. I've found that change in diet preferences is mostly just a matter of repeating the new choices/dictates until they become both habit and likeable. For instance, I some time ago shifted to 100% fat free milk. I can't even stand 1% anymore, let alone 2% or, Heavens Forbid, whole.

Cheese is a toughie, because there really is no low-fat substitute for a lot of the really good ones.

Oh well, can't have everything in life.

5599. Wombat - 9/27/2000 1:10:30 PM

Haven't eggs been restored somewhat in dieticians' estimation? At some point two a week was thought to be best, but now it's four.

5600. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 1:19:24 PM

wombat, the way I read that news story -- was it about 6 mos ago? -- was that an egg or two a week won't hurt. But I thought that was by comparison with the rest of the normal high-fat American diet.

5601. JudithAtHome - 9/27/2000 1:19:48 PM

Well, we do need fat in our diets and I prefer to get mine with olive oil and, in situations where butter is called for, real butter. I eat whole eggs occasionally and generally don't eat fried foods or foods high in fat much at all.

But I'll have a piece of KeyLime Pie once in awhile and won't give up my brie for anyone!

5602. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 1:38:03 PM

J@h, I know. It's easy for me to avoid fat where it's obvious and yucky like in sausages or ribs. But somehow when it's hiding in chocolate, ice cream or some other luscious thing, I get some weird form of senility and completely forget that there's any fat in that stuff at all. Call me Cleopatra -- Queen of Denial.

5603. janjon - 9/27/2000 2:03:42 PM

chocolate.


argggh.


Gone. Forever. But, hardly forgotten.


sigh.

5604. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 2:13:01 PM

janjon, I eat chocolate every day -- even when I was losing 20 lbs. But it's a matter of being satisfied with chocolate in different forms. For example, chocolate syrup is fat free. I love weight watchers chocolate mousse bars --sort of like a fudgsicle but low in calories. I'd make sugar-free chocolate pudding with skim milk -- with a dollop of lite cool whip it ain't bad. For severe chocolate cravings, I'd make the regular cooked type chocolate pudding and eat it while it's warm -- it's too luscious and gooey not to be satisfying. Then there are the healthy choice chocolate cookies and devil's food cookies. Very sweet so one is more than enough. Hershey's makes a hard candy called taste-tations which is a chocolately flavor, but I don't think it has any fat (but I admit I'm not sure.) Where there's a will, there's a way.

5605. janjon - 9/27/2000 2:24:59 PM

thoughtful. Well, you are obviously much more resourceful than I. But, you do inspire me.

5606. PelleNilsson - 9/27/2000 2:31:52 PM

The problem with fat is that you can't really cook good food without it. A lot of the substances that give flavour and taste are soluble in fat but not in water or fat substitutes. That's why the addition cream gives so much added tasted to a sauce.

5607. PelleNilsson - 9/27/2000 2:33:56 PM

Sometimes, janjon, I wonder what serious illness you suffer from, but that's indiscreet, I know.

5608. bubbaette - 9/27/2000 2:34:55 PM

Those Hershey's Tastations chocolate candies have .5 grams of fat per candy. But I like them very much and it's not like milk chocolate where you could eat a 1/2 pound in a comparatively short time.

5609. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 2:37:01 PM

I've never been to the hershey's web site and I went and found a nutrition chart on all their products. 3 chocolate taste-tations have 60 calories and 1.5g fat so it counts as a low-fat food. Also 1 York peppermint patty (1/2 oz size) which packs a powerful flavor has only 50 calories and 1g fat. Neat. Learn something new every day.

5610. janjon - 9/27/2000 2:37:54 PM

pelle. I have no serious illnesses. I just try to live in a way intended to keep it that way.

I believe that you, among many, have aptly pointed out the propensity of many of my countrymates to be obese - fat, if you will. For some, it probably is genetic. For most, it certainly is not. I don't want to fall into the latter category.

So, sane balanced diet, with an emphasis on keeping the cholesterol down (well, the bad stuff, with the good cholesterol high). Exercise.

And, lots of sex, of course.

5611. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 2:38:35 PM

bbbtt, I see you beat me to the taste-tations count.

5612. janjon - 9/27/2000 2:39:09 PM

is the fat in that Hershey concoction saturated? If so, what little timb bombs those thingies would be.

5613. bubbaette - 9/27/2000 2:40:38 PM

3 of the candies have 1.5 grams fat of which 1 gram is saturated.

5614. bubbaette - 9/27/2000 2:41:05 PM

(Can you tell I have a bag in my desk drawer?)

5615. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 2:41:56 PM

janjon, I don't know if I'm more resourceful than you or just much more severely addicted to chocolate.

Of course the hersheys site will also tell you that the kind of fat in chocolate is not damaging to cholesterol!

When you die, and hopefully go to heaven, you don't take your body with you and if you don't have a body, how can you taste chocolate? If you can't taste chocolate, how can it be heaven? Truly a dilemma.

5616. janjon - 9/27/2000 2:44:37 PM

by the way, pelle, although not easy it certainly isn't impossible to cook "really great" food without fat. Some just come naturally - like wonderfully steamed vegetables or greens, which I love to eat just as is, with no salt or sauce of any type. And, even if you must use fat, such as in sautes etc., olive or canola oil (or almost any type of vegetable oil other than palm or coconut) can provide you some really terrific and complex dishes.

Again, it all comes down to acclimation. Based solely on how it would taste to me, I could no more eat a heavy French cream or butter based sauce these days than I could a...fermented fish.

5617. janjon - 9/27/2000 2:46:37 PM

I should have added that it isn't that palm or coconut oil can't be used in some really tasty things, it is just that they are so horribly bad for you in terms of the saturated fat they are filled with.

5618. janjon - 9/27/2000 2:49:18 PM

thoughtful. Back in the days when I pondered such things, I occasionally wondered just what was going to be so great about heaven if you couldn't eat or (when I pondered in early adolescence) have sex.

Now that I know that I am an atheist, it all just boils down to trying to stay alive in a cogent manner as long as possible and then off to an oven I go.

5619. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 2:50:13 PM

Janjon, 1g is saturated in 3 taste-tations. Do you limit yourself by fat intake? saturated fat intake? Or just generally try not to eat high-fat foods?

5620. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 2:54:31 PM

Yesterday's science times had an article about the scientists who, having found that underfed but well-nutritioned mice lived significantly longer, are now trying the experiment on themselves. I don't think I could do it. One said he feels a little hungry all the time. I couldn't stand that. Another said he's essentially quit eating out as it's too hard to get what he wants/needs. I guess it's a matter of striking a balance between how long you want to live and how well you want to live. I'd hate it if I put myself through an underweight condition all my life, only to die at 85 like everyone else.

Or as one tour director told us-- think of all the ladies on the Titanic who passed up dessert for the sake of their figures!

5621. janjon - 9/27/2000 3:03:42 PM

thoughtful. I'm not really scientific about it, although I have become relatively well-versed in knowing what to eat and what to avoid in terms of their fat (and type) content. I do read labels of unfamiliar foods religiously before buying them, and I do try very hard to stay away from as much saturated fat as possible. Some foods have been hard to give up. (Not chocolate, actually. French fries. But, even there, I have found that baking the frozen ones - not the ones coated in oil - with nothing but salt, is just fine.) Biggest sacrifice is real ice cream.

Oh the other sides of the coins, I also now eat very little meat, and none of that is red, and I have started developing quite a repetoire of grains that I like.

As I said above, I really want to churn this thing called life out for as long as I can continue to be relatively cogent.

5622. janjon - 9/27/2000 3:05:37 PM

Eating out isn't really that much of a problem, if you aren't shy about asking how things are prepared or asking for changes in ingredients or mode of preparation if desired.

5623. PelleNilsson - 9/27/2000 3:23:51 PM

janjon

Thank you for your answer. But I feel that one should also consider one's disposition. What is the point, for example, of going for a low-cholestrol diet if one doesn't have a cholestrol problem? There are many studies that show that there is no simple relation between cholestrol intake and levels of blood cholestrol. I'm 57 and I pay no particular attention to what I eat - or what I drink for that matter - but the annual tests show that all results are within the normal range: blood pressure, cholestrol, liver function, kidney function, what have you, with one exception.

The excaprion is that I carry about 10 kg overweight, which piled up after I tore an achilles tendon when playing squash a few years ago, and has stayed with me since.

5624. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 3:24:51 PM

janjon, I'll eat french fries maybe once or twice a year. Everytime I do, I find I'm disappointed. They are one food that smell better than they taste. Same with Mrs. Fields cookies.

I've cut down but not out on all meats. I typically have a serving (3 oz. cooked) of meat (chicken, fish, beef, or pork) once or twice a week, but that's about it. I rarely get real ice cream anymore. Once you avoid it for awhile, if you do have it, it tastes sorta gummy --coating your tongue in a weird way -- then sits in your stomach like a rock. It's not the fun it used to seem. I'm the same way with milk...2% tastes like cream and whole milk tastes like butter.

If you didn't catch it before, you might check out the recipes link on this thread. I posted one for pasta with mushrooms in a cream sauce that's just yummy -- the sauce is like a roux made with evaporated skim milk thickened with flour. Vegetarian, lo fat, but tastes absolutely sinful.

5625. bubbaette - 9/27/2000 3:26:44 PM

Janjon

You can make nice "broiler" fries with next to no fat. Cut a baking potato into wedges -- spray the wedges with pam and broil them til nice and brown then sprinkle with seasoned salt.

5626. theDiva - 9/27/2000 3:29:45 PM

speaking of potatoes, I love a frittata made with potatoes and onions cooked gently in olive oil. MmmmmmMMMMMMM!!!!

5627. bubbaette - 9/27/2000 3:35:10 PM

I made scalloped potatos for dinner last night -- comparatively low fat with 2.5 cups 1% milk and a cup of cheese for 12 servings.

5628. Ronski - 9/27/2000 5:05:19 PM

Thoughtful,

I wouldn't want to ruin your regimen, but the ice cream problem you note might be the result of using brands made with guar gum as a stabilizer. Breyer's All Natural does not use any gums, and it does not coat your tongue. Neither does Haagen-Dazs, but they do use egg yolk which increases the fat content.

Of course, you may just want to leave well enough alone, but I for one might not be able to live without ice cream.

5629. glendajean - 9/27/2000 5:06:48 PM

Ronski -- Me, either.

5630. JudithAtHome - 9/27/2000 5:09:10 PM

I can live without ice cream and without chocolate but I can't live without cheese. I know many feel I'm a rat and possibly I could be viewed as such but I prefer to think I'm French.

5631. glendajean - 9/27/2000 5:10:36 PM

Judith -- do you put cheddar on your hot apple pie?

5632. JudithAtHome - 9/27/2000 5:14:58 PM

I have before but for the last few years, I've been off apple pies, even though Keoni makes the best and most beautiful apple pies I've ever seen or tasted. I just don't care for apples anymore.

He tried to tempt me last year at Thanksgiving by adding cranberries to his apple pie and it was pretty good. Wouldn't be good with cheddar, though. But I'd much prefer pumpkin or cherry or blueberry or anything before apple.

5633. janjon - 9/27/2000 5:30:38 PM

pelle. Well, it sounds as if you are one of the lucky ones who doesn't really have to worry about fat intake insofar as cholesterol is concerned. I would bet that your doctor has suggested that you get the extra weight off, but it certainly doesn't seem to be an extreme amount (unless you are less than four feet tall....)

However, with just a few exceptions (like real - and high quality - ice cream), I really don't think of myself as suffering in the slightest in terms of enjoyment of food etc. by eating the types of foods that I do now and conversely not eating ones that I used to (like steaks). If anything, I can't imagine not eating the diverse types of food that I now ingest.

5634. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 5:40:52 PM

Ronski, we have one of the best ice cream parlors in the state around the corner from us that makes sundaes with real whipped cream, hot fudge sauce with real fudge, etc. Their ice cream is all natural and is made with high-fat cream, not gum. It still leaves me with that coated tongue feeling, and definitely hits the stomach like a rock. Not that it stops me from occasionally indulging, but it's definitely not the attraction it used to be for me. Years ago we used to buy a half gallon a week, and now I don't remember the last time I even had ice cream in the house.

I think part of it too is that I try to stop and ask myself what I really want before I eat something. Most of the time I find I'm really thirsty, not hungry. Ice cream being cold and wet satisfies that thirst -- but so does a glass of water without all the fat and calories.

5635. janjon - 9/27/2000 5:42:41 PM

Sorbets. Granitas.

Those hit the spot.

5636. Ronski - 9/27/2000 5:44:57 PM

I've made a tangerine granita that was yummy. And excellent for clearing the palate.

5637. janjon - 9/27/2000 5:50:24 PM

ronski. I've always been partial to grapefruit, but tangerine sounds terrific. Even if one's palate doesn't need cleansing.

5638. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 5:51:37 PM

I came across a recipe in the NY Times a long time ago that I've always wanted to try -- it's supposed to be a quick and easy way of making sorbets by freezing and pureeing canned fruit. It's on my very long list of things to try sometime.

Sorry if I sound too self-righteous about my diet. Believe me I'm not. I'm a lifetime member of weight watchers and struggle with my weight daily. I try to eat a more healthy diet, but while I've had some success in limiting the fat and the meat intake, I go way overboard on the carbos -- that sweet tooth of mine will do me in yet.

5639. janjon - 9/27/2000 5:56:00 PM

thoughtful. Nah, you don't sound self-righteous. Any more than I hope I don't either.

Diets, whether to lose weight or change the composition of what you eat in terms of fats, etc., or both, are hard work. At least at the outset. You have to read. You have to gain determination. You have to avoid the temptation to try one of the fast fix jobbies. To do it correctly, you have to consider other elements in your life as well, like appropriate exercise programs. Then, you have to get used to the changes. Then you have to persevere.

Tain't easy, McGee. But, just like stopping smoking takes work and time, I've discovered that once in place it is relatively easy to keep on track. (With the occasional trips to the side, of course.)

5640. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 6:04:55 PM

janjon, what does me in is that the body gives you a grace period -- you can overindulge for awhile and it doesn't seem to matter weight wise. That period is usually about how long it takes to get used to eating more. Then suddenly wham! The lbs. start to appear. Then you have to go through the whole effort to break the new bad habit and it takes awhile for the lbs. to start to come off.

Pelle, I don't know the conversion off hand, but if 10kg translates to about 10 lbs. all you need to do is cut out 100 calories a day out of your diet (a slice of bread with a bit of butter) and in a year the extra weight will be gone.

5641. janjon - 9/27/2000 6:09:55 PM

thoughtful. your first paragraph in 5640 was most depressing. Been there, done that. But, only once. This second time around I've been able to keep all the weight off for over a year. But, it is a never ending battle, isn't it.

5642. Thoughtful - 9/27/2000 6:25:50 PM

janjon,it is, but we can celebrate our small successes. I always used to lust and frequently buy the desserts in the cafeteria. Now I most often don't see them, and if I do look, they rarely intrigue me. I hadn't thought about the lack of ice cream in the house until today, and now can count that as one of my successes. I have definitely done a much better job of drinking water -- weight watchers recommends 6-8 glasses per day and since going there, I pretty much get them all in. It does incredible things for your health.

The other big thing is exercise. I do it regularly and know that all the studies show that continuing to exercise is key to maintaining weight. I used to nordic trak, and more recently have started running. Every day I run, I make sure I go a little further -- even if its only a few yards. I made it to the top of one hill on my run last week and celebrated. Now I am facing an even longer, steeper one, but look forward to the day when it too has been conquered.

This a.m. with the new moon, as I was running in the dark, I was accompanied by Orion and the 7 Pleides. Who could ask for anything more?

5643. janjon - 9/27/2000 6:37:02 PM

how about a warm donut and a nice steaming cup of hot chocolate with whipped cream waiting for you at the summit.

just joking.

5644. Ronski - 9/28/2000 1:15:07 PM

Widespread frost predicted for the Northeast tonight. I'm thinking that Killington may try to make a little snow just to say that they officially had skiing in September, which they did during an early cold snap a few years ago. I won't be able to go there, but I would be comforted by the thought that somebody is up there skiing this early in the season. (The snow will melt, of course, and they won't officially open to stay for another few weeks at least.) Even if there's frost where I am, which is likely, my tomato plants will probably survive. The early frost tends to accumulate in the valleys, and the higher up you are the less you get. It has something to do with the exchange of heat and cold that develops on still nights. (Of course, on really high peaks, such as Mt. Mansfield in Vermont, it gets cold enough this time of the year for actual rime to develop. One of the prettiest sights up there is the top ridge covered in white, the mid-level of the mountain in blazing fall color, and the bottom of the mountain still green.)

5645. Dusty - 9/28/2000 1:30:38 PM

Thoughtful, 10kg is 22 pounds

Pelle, what is "excaprion"?

5646. theDiva - 9/28/2000 1:39:57 PM

Ronski

I have a borscht question.

I sometimes do a variation on my Ukranian grandmother's recipe...grated beets, simmer covered with water, add diced red onions and grated carrots, vinegar, chicken stock, butter....just made some last weekend and it was fab.

Years ago I ordered it at the Russian Tea Room and it looked nothing like what I make! It was beets in a clear stock with bits of beef. Is this unusual? How do you make yours?

5647. theDiva - 9/28/2000 1:40:18 PM

Ukranian GREAT-grandmother.

5648. CalGal - 9/28/2000 1:44:11 PM

I have to be extra vigilant with my weight,but then I subscribe to the notion that some bodies and appetites are out of synch. Serotonin levels.

3+ years ago I started on fen/phen for three months before fen was banned and I went down to just fen. Lost 50 lbs, kept it off for the next three years by continuing to keep my caloric intake at a good average, and reverting to meds every 3-4 months for two or three months. I found that this worked well--the effect of meds wears off after a while, but it also stays around for a good bit of time after I quit taking them. Then when I find myself both eating too much and feeling hungry a lot, I go back on the meds.

In March, it was time for phentarmine again. They had stopped making it. Figured it was a temporary hitch. But my weight then was at the high end of my 8 lb range. I kept exercising and did my best to watch intake, but I also kept avoiding the scale. Went on two vacations during that time. I called around, couldn't find the drug--or ionomine, either, the generic.

Come the end of July, I bit the bullet and weighed myself. No more figuring that it was just "dryer jeans", I knew I'd put on weight. I was horrified to find out I'd put on 12 lbs from my normal high.

I then spent the month of August working hard to keep my intake down on my own. I was always hungry, always thinking about the next meal.

So in September, I vowed that right after my car got fixed, I would get to the doctor and find a substitute--even if it meant Prozac, and those of you who know me know how big a deal that is. But I called the pharmacy first and discovered lo! they had just started making phentarmine again. A miracle. Called my doc, he got me the scrip, and I'm not hungry any more. I've also lost 8 lbs in two weeks. That will slow, of course. But the relief is huge. I was really worried that I would avoid myself back into chunkiness.

5649. Ronski - 9/28/2000 1:58:51 PM

There are numerous varieties of borscht I suspect. I make a meat-based version, with a brisket or similar cut of meat, or even stew beef (chuck), browned a bit first, and then cooked for a very long time with onions and beets.

The meat is served cold the next day. Before serving the borscht, the beets are mashed up if they haven't already fallen apart. The borscht that is left is reddish in color, but is somewhat like a beef stock with bits of vegetable in it. And it is served with sour cream (a must) and rye bread.

It's basically a way to make two separate meals. The meat is eventually served either with horseradish sauce or covered in a white dill sauce, whichever strikes my fancy.

Borscht is not all that Czech, incidentally. I don't ever remember my Grandmother making it, though she did often serve boiled beets as a vegetable, usually during the summer or fall when she could get them from the garden. I actually learned this recipe from a friend who was from an old American family and part Italian to boot.

I can't do any real vegetable gardening where I am now, because of the mountainous lay of the land. If I could, I would grow the yellow beets that Burpee's offers seed for. They are milder than the red ones and yummier in my estimation.

5650. JudithAtHome - 9/28/2000 1:58:55 PM

So you're not worried that maybe these pills will do something weird to your heart?

5651. Ronski - 9/28/2000 2:01:21 PM

(If a I add the dill sauce, I reheat the meet. If I go with the horseradish, the usual way to eat it, I leave the meet cold. You slice it very thinly. Boiled beef served this way is very popular in Poland and the Czech lands.)

5652. Ronski - 9/28/2000 2:02:23 PM

(Though the beef is usually boiled without beets in those countries.)

I'm striving to be perfectly clear, here.

5653. CalGal - 9/28/2000 2:06:57 PM

It was fenfluramine that supposedly caused heart valve problems, although the study was ridiculously flawed. Phentarmine has been around for over 30 years and operates on dopamine levels, not seratonin.

I only took fenfluramine for three months at a third dosage. Unfortunately, I also have an asymptomatic heart murmur that you can barely hear, and it makes insurance difficult anymore.

5654. rubberducky - 9/28/2000 2:08:11 PM

i took fen/phen for 2 to 2 1/2 months when it 1st came out. dropped from 190 to 145. got off the drug and never went back.

all this shit with the heart valve started when people who should have know better got on the drug and didn't get off the drug even though had they read the f'ing material, they would see not to take the shit for more than 3 months. but, no, they didn't. so, now, it's off the market - it is criminal. although, i have no idea if phentarmine is as good as fen/phen was. cal? is it?

5655. rubberducky - 9/28/2000 2:08:24 PM

(sorry for the mini-rant)

5656. theDiva - 9/28/2000 2:10:40 PM

Ronski

Now that's interesting. And sounds pretty danged tasty. Kind of like, oh what is that Italian dish called? Bollito misto?

I serve mine (borscht) either hot or cold and always with sour cream, of course. But I don't ever remember eating with meat as a kid. I am going to have to try your version some time. Especially with horseradish, which I adore.

5657. CalGal - 9/28/2000 2:16:11 PM

Ducky,

You know, we should probably move this discussion to Health where we can be properly lectured by everyone. (g)

I found phentarmine by itself to be fine, but that's because I want it to do what it does--take the edge off. It is not considered to be nearly as effective as fenfluramine, but it does the job if you let it. I certainly would take it before Meridia--nothing pissed me off more than that two months after they banned Pondamine (fen) they approved Meridia--even though it is addictive and raises blood pressure in far more of the population than fenfluramine on its worst day.

5658. theDiva - 9/28/2000 2:17:58 PM

truly. Who the heck wants to talk about weight loss in the Stuff Yer Face thread?

5659. Ronski - 9/28/2000 2:20:53 PM

Perhaps we need a Torture Thread.

5660. theDiva - 9/28/2000 2:24:38 PM

heeheehee

5661. PelleNilsson - 9/28/2000 5:01:33 PM

Dusty

Pelle, what is "excaprion"?


A little known synonyme of 'exception', common, however, in certain Highland dialects.

5662. Thoughtful - 9/29/2000 3:59:46 PM

Pelle, thanks for the explanation. I thought excaprion was when you were grilling, shake the bottle of BBQ sauce without realizing the cap wasn't on tight, get sauce all over you only to realize you forgot to put your apron on.

5663. janjon - 9/29/2000 4:45:58 PM

this is redundant to a post that I somehow inadvertently made in Politics, but I was trying to say that excaprion occurs with bbqs only when they are martini fueled.

Carry on.

5664. marshame - 10/1/2000 3:05:55 PM

We had the neatest party last night: A Budget Survivor Party. It was to celebrate the recent, torturous adoption of the local budget (a 2-month endurance test we run with simpleton elected officials and single-minded citizens.)

Anyhow, it was a progressive dinner on the theme of the TV show "Survivor." At the first house, we had "coconut cocktails" and tropical hors douerves ("or derves"!). The best were sqiggles of cheese on chinese peapods that looked remarkably like worms on leaves. A rather deadly rum punch was served that put some of the party-goers wildly in the partying mood! Each guest had to draw a card for what Tribe they belonged to: Tagi, Pagong, Rattana, or the Castaways (aka Gilligan's Island Tribe.) Each tribe had a color, and the members had to wear their colored bandanas at all times. It became a contest to see the strange ways people would wear their bandanas, changing the location as we moved from house to house.

The game consisted of a round of Budget Survivor Challenge, where each tribe had to select one member, and they then had to answer assorted questions about the budget (i.e. What does the acronym "LSOS" stand for, and toward which department head was it directed? etc)

My house was the second in the progression, and I was responsible for the entree, touted as Rat Cassarole, but actually a wonderful jambolaya, fruit salad, and corn muffins. Of course we all had tiki lanterns and jungle decor, and everyone roamed our houses lookin' at our stuff, etc. (You know, what you always want to do at your bosses' house.) We also had self-guided in-the-dark tours of my recently installed English garden.


Anyhow, on to the third house where we had Worm Pudding, which was actually dump cake with gummy worms sticking out of it

5665. marshame - 10/1/2000 3:06:08 PM

. Then on the the final house for coffee/after dinner drinks, and the Tribal Council around the Big Boss's beautiful black-bottom pool and waterfall. All the members of the winning tribe (Rattana) then had the final tie-breaking question (Give the exact amount of the finally approved total budget for 00-01) and that brought us to the two finalists. Their final 3 questions were about the TV show Survivor, which neither guy had watched at all. But not to worry, cheating had become The Way during this whole game (the rum punch was strong, did I mention!) The final questions were: 1) Did Sue call Kelly, in her final in-your-face speech, a snake, or a rat? 2) What was the first name of the show's host? 3) A point each for the first name and the last name of the Survivor Show winner.

Our Budget Survivor won a hokey prize, and the runner-up won an even more hokey prize.

It was really fun, and the guys (who would never agree to come to the party if they knew there was going to be a "game") had a ball! It was one of the best parties I've been to/put on in a long time.

I had never done a progressive dinner before, and it was a lot of fun. We all leave within 1.5 miles of each other, so we carpooled/caravaned from house to house.

5666. dusty - 10/1/2000 3:17:48 PM

PelleNilsson

Thanks. I didn't find it in a dictionary, or even a Google search.

5667. PelleNilsson - 10/1/2000 3:31:55 PM

Dusty

What is that in reference of?

BTW, the Olympics closing ceremony featured a country singer leading the 100,000 audience in Waltzing Mathilda.

His name was Dusty. Slim Dusty.

5668. dusty - 10/1/2000 3:36:49 PM

Message # 5661

5669. PelleNilsson - 10/1/2000 3:51:50 PM

Oh, yes. I'm forgetful.

5670. Thoughtful - 10/2/2000 9:20:21 AM

marshame, that sounds like a terrific party but an incredible amount of planning. How creative!

5671. PelleNilsson - 10/2/2000 11:57:57 AM

Is Elisabeth Gordon a familiar name around here?

Obituary

5672. glendajean - 10/2/2000 12:05:24 PM

Pelle -- I read an obituary of her in the NY Times last week. Thanks for posting your link. Very intersting. I had never heard of her until I read the story.

5673. JudithAtHome - 10/2/2000 2:55:57 PM

Nice article, Pelle...

I was thinking of stylish things as I put homemade cole slaw in my fridge container just now. I threw out a plastic container that had held pimento cheese and thought how I'm probably contributing to the death of land space by filling the garbage dump...but I don't save those types of containers for leftovers because I have a set and a half of 1950s glass containers with lids that I reuse over and over.

I go to estate sales and see so many kitchens filled with old plastic containers that once held something else; they seem to multiply effortlessly. I don't save them because they make the leftovers look shabby to me...call me Martha but I care about what my fridge looks like when it is opened and I love seeing all my clear glass containers and the little bright red ones sitting in there. I also feel they are more sanitary.

So tell me...do you guys save old potato salad containers and butter tubs?

5674. bubbaette - 10/2/2000 3:14:53 PM

My grandmother was a home ec. teacher who started teaching during the depression. She washed out and re-used plastic bags, margarine tubs, rubber bands and aluminum foil. Her kitchen was a wreck.

5675. mgleason - 10/2/2000 3:19:07 PM

To my eternal shame, Judith, I save nothing. I, too, enjoy the look of clear glass containers, and I have a superstitious belief that food tastes better when stored in glass rather than plastic.

5676. glendajean - 10/2/2000 4:03:27 PM

Judith -- I rarely keep anything like that. The worst are those damn plastic drinking glasses that appear everywhere.

5677. Thoughtful - 10/2/2000 4:05:33 PM

We have a cabinet full of plastic containers that we use for food storage...my in-laws had a slew of the glass ones that they used. Yes, attractive, but prone to slippage and breakage, and I never trusted that they were as well sealed as the plastic ones. I cook on the weekends and hubby sups out of the microwave during the week so food storage is a big deal in our house. I guess you can call us micro-tubbies!

5678. JudithAtHome - 10/2/2000 4:07:51 PM

I toss almost all plastic things...but then, I try not to buy plastic things so...

Maybe I'm lucky because in my buying sprees for the business, I've come across all sorts of deals on the glass containers. I've upgraded considerably...ha!

5679. Ronski - 10/2/2000 4:08:00 PM

I think most foods can be stored in plastic for a while and taste fine. But highly acidic foods, like fresh berries, do develop a plastic taste if stored in plastic bags or containers for more than a day, including if they are frozen.

5680. glendajean - 10/2/2000 4:15:29 PM

Pyrex makes a glass bowl with a plastic lid, giving one the seal of a plastic container, but the texture of glass. (ha!)

I use mine for soup (usually chicken tortilla or curry pumpkin) -- it's excellent to use for sick or new neighbors.

5681. Wombat - 10/2/2000 4:18:07 PM

We use the plastic soup containers from Chinese carryout. Very sturdy. I freeze batches of pasta sauce, fried rice, and jambalalya.

5682. mgleason - 10/2/2000 4:27:36 PM

I found some comprehensive recipe sites a little while ago:

Thanksgiving Recipes

More Thanksgiving Recipes

(They feature recipes from Bon Appétit, Gourmet, Better Homes and Gardens, and Good Housekeeping, among others.)

5683. glendajean - 10/2/2000 4:30:30 PM

Maria -- would you liked these linked on the side bar?

Also, don't forget that we have a recipe sub-thread on this page, too.

5684. JudithAtHome - 10/2/2000 4:35:16 PM

GJ:

I would surely like them on the side bar...neat sites!

And what's with no recipes posted since MAY? Where are the chili and winter stews recipes, the "cold weather foods"?

5685. glendajean - 10/2/2000 4:44:50 PM

Thanksgiving recipe sites are now linked to the sidebar. Again, thanks, Maria (& Judith for the encouragement).

5686. mgleason - 10/2/2000 4:45:56 PM

I'm embarrassed, GJ; I forgot about the sub-thread. Thanks for offering to link the sites.

5687. alistairconnor - 10/2/2000 6:31:29 PM

Message # 5674 bubb, your grandma sounds just like my mother! Home economics graduate 1945... Somewhat obsessive about no-waste, but she's certainly instilled frugal values into me, for which I am very grateful.

Storage at the Moulin:
Glass jars for dry goods on shelves. Elegance and transparency.
Re-used plastic containers for leftovers, in the fridge.

5688. Webfeet - 10/3/2000 2:54:42 PM

S.O.S!!!!

Baby knocked over large cup of coffee on new pottery barn sisal rug!
I scrubbed with a brush (2x) but the damn stain still won't come out and I am totally livid! Who has Heloise Hints Around the House lying about? I don't want to be one of those wives that coats the furniture with plastic. Help!

5689. SnowOwl - 10/3/2000 3:02:20 PM

From a NZ site on stain removal:

Coffee & Tea

Remove fresh stains from cotton and linen materials by first rinsing in warm water then pouring boiling water from a height of 2 - 3 feet onto the stain. Follow by washing in soapy water. If a trace remains, bleach in the sun, or with a diaper wash/sanitiser container sodium percarbonate. Tea stains on cottons and linens can also be removed by soaking in borax and water (1 Tbsp. borax in 1 c of warm water).

Stains on wool and silk or any fabric may be sponged with lukewarm water, then apply glycerine, rubbing lightly between the hands. Let stand for half an hour. Rinse with warm water. If a grease spot remains from cream, sponge with dry cleaning fluid.

5690. PelleNilsson - 10/3/2000 3:06:33 PM

Snowowl

This is it:



You have tested "Kaviar" before I believe, probably Kalles Kaviar which is very popular. That one is smoke and contains 50-60% cod roe, the rest being made up by vegetable oil and various (non-harmful) additives.

This one is unsmoked and contains 92% roe, a small amount of oil and the rest is salt. Since you like anchovies, I think you'd love this one.

5691. PelleNilsson - 10/3/2000 3:07:49 PM

It is excellent on a sandwich with thinly sliced egg. Add dill if you wish.

5692. JudithAtHome - 10/3/2000 3:08:02 PM

Use Dow Bathroom Cleaner with Scubbing Bubbles (spray can)...spray the ares, use paper towels to soak up residue. Repeat process until rug is clean.

I know, I know, this sounds insane and totally un PC but the Bubble Guys work on anything!

5693. JudithAtHome - 10/3/2000 3:11:20 PM

Webbie, that post wasn't previewed...Scrubbing bubbles.


Pelle:

We had excellent caviar sandwiches in Pisa; instead of thinly sliced boiled egg, they made a sort of egg salad with mayo and chopped egg and caviar. Utterly sublime!

5694. SnowOwl - 10/3/2000 3:15:12 PM

Yum. Thanks, Pelle. I love roe so I've made a note of it and will definitely try it in February if not before.

I've just received some brochures about Junsele. It looks a very pretty little place, but I'm still not entirely convinced I'll be able to cope with the expected temperatures. We'll only be there for 3 days though, so I should survive.

5695. PelleNilsson - 10/3/2000 3:23:24 PM

Grave typing error:

This one is unsmoked...

5697. PelleNilsson - 10/3/2000 3:33:20 PM

The empty post is my mistake.

5698. Ronski - 10/3/2000 4:19:06 PM

One might also try Lysol Direct on the stain. Like the Scrubbing Bubbles, it has an oxidizing effect that seems to work pretty well on kitty barf, and worse.

5699. DocBrown - 10/3/2000 4:32:52 PM

I'd appreciate any advice on dealing with the following unique little situation:

Several months ago I spotted an offer for a cat in need of adoption on the internet. Porsche and I saw the little guy, fell in love, and brought him home to join our other cat. His name is Bela.

We told the former owner couple that if they ever wanted to check on the little guy to just give us a call.

A few days ago the former owners called us out of the blue asking if they could take us up on the offer. They want to visit us and make sure little Bela is happy.

The visit will take place this evening. They will join us for a few glasses of wine.

Bela seems to have adjusted well, and is getting along fine with our other cat, Gabby. Both are pure white male adults, although Bela is much younger and has longer hair. Porsche like to sit petting both white kitties and say things like: "You only live twice, Mr. Bond." and "It won't be the nicotine that kills you, Mr. Bond."

I doubt that there will be any sort of problem . . . my goal is simply to avoid any awkward moments.

Any insights? Dos and don'ts?

5700. angel-five - 10/3/2000 4:37:46 PM

With cat, you never want to serve anything but a good hearty red wine. And stay away from light sauces.

Make it very plain that you hope they get a bigger cat next time.

5701. JudithAtHome - 10/3/2000 4:39:08 PM

Doc:

Make the visit short...you never know. They might be casing the joint.

5702. JudithAtHome - 10/3/2000 4:39:59 PM

A5, you're really sick! I loved it....

5703. DocBrown - 10/3/2000 4:52:31 PM

Thanks, Angel. How should we prepare the potato? Mashed or fries?

Judith, I am not worried about them casing the joint. Porsche and I have already decided that they will only see the first floor and basement, which everyone sees.

They really love Bela, but the woman is very allergic to his long hair. I think it is sweet that they want to know how he is doing.

5704. DocBrown - 10/3/2000 4:54:29 PM

Time to go now. I'll let you know how it went tomorrow.

If I don't log on tomorrow, it means Porsche and I are tied up in the basement and they are lugging my pinball machine out the back door. Please send help (for us or for them, depending on your loyalties).

5705. bloodnfire - 10/3/2000 6:17:17 PM

Marshame. What a fantastic party! We'd have loved to have been a part of that. Sounds so imaginative.

5707. Ronski - 10/4/2000 5:51:15 PM

Where I live, this is the time of year when the mornings are often misty or foggy. Some days it is hard to tell whether it has been raining overnight, there is so much moisture everywhere. When I walk up the hill to get the paper, the water falls from the hemlocks and oaks in huge drops. When the sun does eventually poke through, the sky turns pink and lavender for a while. This season does not last long.

It is snowing in parts of the Rockies, and light snow is forecast for parts of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Snow flurries will fall throughout much of the interior Northeast over the weekend, excepting coastal areas such as New Jersey, New York City, Boston. We should be right on the border of the snow. I would love to see some flakes. It would be unusually early. I will have to take in my plants, and the tomatoes are probably going to be history.

5708. JudithAtHome - 10/4/2000 6:38:57 PM

Anyone heard from Doc Brown today?

5709. DocBrown - 10/5/2000 10:20:22 AM

Sorry I didn't post yesterday.

The visit from the former cat owners went pretty well. They were delighted to see that Bela was so happy, and they liked that our big, old house gives the two cats so much room to run and play.

We had a lot of fun with them and they stayed pretty late. Both kitties behaved themselves nicely, being frindly at times and just wandering off to play at times.

The strangest part was the end of the evening, when Porsche and I walked them out to their car. As we walked down the street a medium-sized kitten came running up to us! The kitten was affectionate, playful, and well fed. It had no collar, and was just big enough that it might be ready to spend the night outdoors by itself.

This caused some awkward moments. Should we just leave the kitten there, or should one of us take it home?

We had just decided that the kitten probably belonged to someone in the neighborhood, when we saw a "LOST CAT" poster stapled to a utility pole.

The poster had a picture, and when we looked closely we realized that the lost cat was not this kitten.

So now Porsche is watching the neighborhood, worried about the safety of TWO kitties that are not ours. That all of this happened in the presence of the couple who gave us Bela is an amazing coincidence.

5710. glendajean - 10/5/2000 10:30:49 AM

Doc "Call me St. Francis" Brown -- good for you and your wife to give the cats a good home.

Many communities are now offering low-cost spaying and neutering clinics, and in those cities, the "put down" death rate has dropped, and hopefully, the number of unwanted cats and dogs.

5711. theDiva - 10/5/2000 10:42:43 AM

And of course, Wednesday was the Feast of St. Francis.

5712. bubbaette - 10/5/2000 10:47:12 AM

Mike and I have a part-time kitty who comes around in the evenings to be fed. He's also a half-grown kitten (with no collar) and was wild as could be when I first started feeding him. Now he lets me pet him and pick him up. Diva named him Alex. I don't know who, if anyone, he belongs to but he (or she -- I can't tell yet) is sure a cutie. I've been pondering whether we ought to take him to the vet for neutering and the standard shots, but Mike says "Hell no", since we already have two animals.

The leaves are just now starting to turn --it's going to be a beautiful fall.

5713. DocBrown - 10/5/2000 10:51:56 AM

We only recently learned that our suburb has a law that limits each household to no more than two cats.

5714. glendajean - 10/5/2000 10:56:47 AM

We have three, but they're in-door cats.

Last year, the Washington Post did a story on a woman who had 145 cats in her townhouse in Arlington, VA. Come to find out, she worked with a vet and the cats were up on their shots and were not violating any law.

She had 50 or so litter boxes that she changed each day. The smell was strong, according ot the reporter.

One of those people who believes that the warm and fuzzy feeling from one cat is equally multiplied by 145.

5715. theDiva - 10/5/2000 10:59:08 AM

One hundred and forty five cats.

How could you even eat in a house with that many animals?

5716. glendajean - 10/5/2000 11:02:05 AM

Or sleep. I would definitely feed those cats before I attached my gas mask and went to sleep at night.

5717. theDiva - 10/5/2000 11:04:47 AM

ha!

I mean, how screwy. I know this woman who does Akita Rescue...right now she has twelve, TWELVE akitas in her house. She's had as many as 16 at any one time. And this is a suburban Diva City home, not some farm with all this room outdoors for the beasts to run around. I've only been there twice, and the place reeks, it's just one giant doghouse.

5718. glendajean - 10/5/2000 11:10:50 AM

Well, I love my cats, and I am almost obssessed with my little dog. But he's only two feet tall, doesn't take up much space.

BTW, Bubbaette, I bought calves hooves, real bones, and an assortment of cow hide bones to see which works best. In the check-out line, a guy told me that he gets the more clear cow hooves because they don't smell as much. Smell?

So far, the real bone is working wonders, as along I keep finding where he buries it so that he can play with it at those appropriate times (any time he wants to play chew with a cat or the tv remote, e.g.,).

5719. theDiva - 10/5/2000 11:12:27 AM

That's the perfect size dog, AFAIC. The big ones just make me nuts.

5720. Webfeet - 10/5/2000 4:17:02 PM

Thanks SnowOwl, Ronski and Judith for offering stain-removing tips on sisal rugs. It helped a lot.

5721. Ronski - 10/5/2000 4:21:49 PM

Good. I was also thinking about stuff that is advertised on cable TV --Oxyclean -- or something like that. But I've never used it. I keep intending to order some, because I think it might remove a mold (greenish) that has developed on the otherwise very pretty, fan-shaped pink marble tombstone at my mother's parents' gravesite.

5722. glendajean - 10/6/2000 11:32:18 AM

After a day and a half of cold rain, the trees finally decided that it was time to begin fall. Blurbs of organge and red are suddenly popping up. We have a freeze warning tonight (so long tomatoes) and possible snow in Northern Indiana.

Mild summer that was hot and humid at both ends. Almost no fall. Now on to winter.

5723. Ronski - 10/6/2000 12:48:51 PM

On the radio this morning, they spoke of "possible snow flurries north and west of the City" this weekend.

Hooray!

(I'm hoping this bodes well for winter starting in earnest at a normal point in the calendar, like December, rather than waiting for almost February, as happened last year.)

5724. RosettaStone - 10/7/2000 9:41:31 AM

"Indian summer grows old, cold-blooded mother."--Plath

5725. marshame - 10/7/2000 11:57:56 AM

The temperature here in North Dallas is in about the 50's today!! It is drizzling and overcast. Thank you Lord. I cannot tell you how welcome it is after an interminably long and hot Texas summer.


I am going to put my jambolaya recipe (the "Rat Cassarole" I served for the Survivor party) in the recipes thread. Everyone liked it, and it serves 12 generously, per batch. You can make it in advance and it is easy to cook, serve and clean up.



Oh, on the subject of plastics: I like to keep some around for taking left-overs to work (then toss the container there) and also for sending food home with people and for taking food to other people's houses, so they don't have to worry about returning the container. But you only need to have a half-dozen or so on hand at any given time. Fortunately, most of them are #1 or #2 plastics and can therefore go in the recycling bin.

5726. marshame - 10/7/2000 12:35:29 PM

Whoops, I can't seem to find the recipe thread. Is this (H&G) it??

5727. JudithAtHome - 10/7/2000 2:28:06 PM

marsha:

It's to the right in the yellow bar near the top of the page; says "recipes" in green.

5728. SnowOwl - 10/7/2000 3:15:54 PM

I'm having a little grumble about our Spring. I fear the weather is following the same pattern that it did last year - an exceptionally mild winter, followed by a wet, cold Spring and an even wetter, colder Summer.

Because the weather has limited the time I've been able to spend in the garden some stuff just hasn't got done. I only managed to get about half of the roses pruned, the rest are going to have to fend for themselves. They'll do okay, but I won't get the glorious display of flowers I normally do when they put out their first flush.

I hate this climate! We've now lived in this area for about 25 years, and every summer I wonder why.

5729. glendajean - 10/7/2000 3:22:55 PM

Snow Owl -- thanks for the updates even though the news isn't positive.

Are cold and wet summers peculiar to your area or does all of New Zealand face similar weather?

We didn't get our first freeze last night, but now they're saying it will drop to 21 degrees (F). The tops of the tomatoes are black and I am going out this afternoon to pick off the last of the greens ones left. Someday I will have a little greenhouse where I can grow tomatoes year round.

5730. SnowOwl - 10/7/2000 3:34:20 PM

glendajean

The climate in NZ varies quite considerably. I'm on the coast in the lower part of the South Island, and there's not much between us and the Antarctic which keeps my area coolish. Further north it is a lot warmer and at the top of the North Island it's regarded as sub-tropical, whereas my area is cool temperate. They do get quite a lot of rain up there, but because it's so much warmer it also dries out a lot more quickly. Here, things remain boggy for weeks.

Outdoor tomatoes are marginal here. In the occasional good summer I can get a reasonable crop if I grow the varieties most suited for our area, but last year I got very few to ripen. I'd love a greenhouse, but it's way down on the wish list.

We've been spending the past few days sanding and oiling all the wood in the kitchen. We started renovating it about 15 years ago, but never quite got around to finishing it, so we've virtually had to start from scratch again. I began with an old marble topped washstand that had been lurking in the basement since I bought it at an auction a long time ago, and I was delighted with the way it came up. Now I've completed all the cupboard doors in the kitchen, and today will get my husband to take them off their hinges so I can work on the surrounds. After that, it's just a matter of taking out an old pot-belly stove that sits in a corner, fixing the floor underneath, then painting the ceiling and re-papering the walls.

All of this frantic activity is because my son and his new fiancee will be here early next month, and I don't want to scare the poor girl off by making her think she's marrying into a family of slobs (even if she is).

5731. PelleNilsson - 10/8/2000 5:41:09 AM

Yesterday was Rotten Herring Night with my sister-in-law and her family. A little late in the season but still. We had an unexptected guest munching apples in the garden:



I'm sorry about the quality but one doesn't want to be much closer to an elk. They are big animals, taller than a man. It's head is turned away. You can see the horns sticking up above the body.

5732. marshame - 10/8/2000 12:01:32 PM

Rotten Herring Night??? Do tell more!

5733. angel-five - 10/8/2000 12:25:58 PM

Don't.

There's an ice storm here, right now. Most of the trees are still entirely green. I'd imagine this will hasten up the abscision.

5734. marshame - 10/8/2000 12:35:50 PM

A-5
Better check out the Mote Cafe where I cast aspersions on your delusions of culinary ability.

5735. angel-five - 10/8/2000 12:43:59 PM

I did. The food was good. You're kinda pathetic when you try to provoke.

Incidently, the mentioned meal wasn't for a date. The last time I cooked on a date it was Castilian shrimp over wild rice.

5736. marshame - 10/8/2000 12:53:33 PM

I admit I am surprised that you would recognize a discussion you would do better not to try and defend yourself in.

5737. JudithAtHome - 10/8/2000 12:59:28 PM

marsha:

Your recipe looks delicious!

5738. marshame - 10/8/2000 1:04:37 PM

J@H
Thanks, try it and let me know how it turns out.

5739. JudithAtHome - 10/8/2000 1:06:42 PM

...but one question: Did you not use a roux? My cajun friend told me always to make my own roux and use it at the last to thicken the broth. His roux was almost ebony colored by the time he had it ready to use; it gave a delicious flavor to the broth...

5740. marshame - 10/8/2000 1:10:55 PM

No, I made it just as described. It is light and fluffy, not swimming in broth as some Cajun dishes are. If you experiment, let me know what you did and how it turns out.


A fruit salad is a natural companion to this dish.

5741. angel-five - 10/8/2000 1:21:31 PM

Anyone who tries what I made will find sufficient defense of it. Anyone who's content to take your word as to what's gourmet and what's awful prolly wouldn't know an epicure from an epidural.

5742. JudithAtHome - 10/8/2000 1:22:50 PM

marsha:

I'm thinking of trying it for a group of us who attend plays together; I could make it a day before and then all I'd need to prepare before everyone arrives is some garlic bread and the fruit salad.

It couldn't be any more trouble than trying to get everyone to an agreed upon restaurant on time....ha!

5743. angel-five - 10/8/2000 1:25:09 PM

Then again, Marshamarshamarsha, beast of ill-omen, swamp donkey that thou art, anyone forced to endure your company long enough to eat something you've cooked probably speedily devours it in hopes that it's laced with cyanide.

5744. JudithAtHome - 10/8/2000 1:26:55 PM

A5...I thought what you made sounded fine; I wouldn't use jalapeño in anything, though, because most hot peppers blister my mouth something fierce...I think it is a sign that I am developing an allergic reaction to them, as I did with pineapple.

When you make your own pasta, do you ever put herbs in it?

5745. marshame - 10/8/2000 1:27:27 PM

Oh baby, you know I love it when you talk dirty to me.



I dare you to put a table of cumin seed in any dish (other than a curry that feeds 2-dozen) and eat it, and live to tell the tale.

5746. marshame - 10/8/2000 1:37:00 PM

Judith

I originally had planned on garlic bread too, but then you have to fool with slicing it, having butter, etc. So I settled on corn mufins. Now this is a secret recipe, since its so easy, but people just love these.

Jiffy Corn Muffins, New and Improved
One box jiffy corn muffins
Make as directed, but reduce the milk from 1/3 cup to 1/4 cup
Add 1/3 cup canned creamed corn
Add 1 Tablespoon sugar
Make in Pam-sprayed muffin tin

Each box makes about 9 muffins.

They're delicious, and don't even need butter. The corn goes with the cajun flavor wonderfully.

5747. angel-five - 10/8/2000 1:39:43 PM

It's a salad dressing, Marshame, it's supposed to be concentrated. It's not like you eat the whole four cups of dressing on your spinach. But one of my other favorite recipes, Gujerati potatoes with yogurt, calls for two tablespoons of the seed. It's remarkably simple -- potato salad maded with yogurt, salt, black pepper, cayenne, cumin seed, and frying oil. And everyone who's had it loves it.

Judith: A jalapeno is not a hot pepper. It isn't a hot dressing, though, just tangy between the cumin, the garlic, and the jalapeno. The last time I used it I used half a large jalapeno, a variety that produces jalapenos about three or four times the size of normal ones with a rather mild flavor, and you could barely taste it.

Fresh pasta with herbs -- I tried twice with spinach, once with the frozen kind and once with fresh out of the garden. Neither time was anything to write home about. Basil, basil/sun-dried tomato, and a basil/thyme/parsley/oregano medley, are different entirely. Just puree them up in a little olive oil until you've got something the consistency of pesto and add it into the dough. You'll end up needing a little less egg or a little more flour depending on how you mix. The way I beat noodle dough is in a Kitchenaid mixer, adding the egg-water mixture to the flour and salt in third increments -- when I add herbs I toss in the herbs at the start and then add the liquid after the herbs have been mixed into the flour pretty well.

5748. angel-five - 10/8/2000 1:40:37 PM

I rest my case. Jiffy corn muffins and creamed corn.

5749. mgleason - 10/8/2000 1:43:15 PM

I am making flan today, but instead of one large container, I am using individual-sized caramelized Pyrex bowls. I bake them in a bain-marie in a large roasting pan.

5750. marshame - 10/8/2000 1:44:04 PM

My dear Angel Five

Here is where I have a problem with your War-of-the-Flavors Spinach salad. Spinach is a tender sweet green. Cilantro in a fairly strong flavored herb, and two cups is a lot. I don't use 2 cups of cilantro when I make pico de gallo, and cilantro is one of the prime ingredients! You use vinegar, which is okay, but I would use 1/2 vinegar and 1/2 lemon juice on spinach. You use vegetable oil, which is fine. The walnuts add a nice crunch.

But a jalapeno??? Why? To give the delicate herb taste a hot burn?? To overwhelm it?

And there is absolutely no excuse for the cumin, which is a very strong spice, usually found in curries! So why in the world would you jumble hot mexican pepper with hot Indian curry spice with herbs, and then throw in some walnuts??

Where are you trying to go with this dish? Often with salads, less is more.

5751. marshame - 10/8/2000 1:51:51 PM

If you used a pepper three or four times larger than a jalapeno, and it has a mild flavor, it ain't a jalapeno!! Sounds like an anaheim or a jabero pepper to me, which then makes your recipe something altogether different.

Your potatoes in yogurt sounds good.

As for the Jiffy corn muffins, try them, then tell me. Any good cook knows where to take short cuts and where to take pains.

5752. angel-five - 10/8/2000 1:52:13 PM

The dish is tasty. I wouldn't have posted it if it weren't. I suppose that's what I was going for, and it worked by all accounts. It isn't hot. The walnuts don't add a 'crunch', Marshamarshamarsha, because they're pureed. They're there for the flavor, they complement the cilantro.

As for your 'less is more' homily, sometimes less isn't more. Try it, or don't, or whatever, but just sitting there and saying that it sounds like something that most people wouldn't do seems sort of amateurishly provocative.

5753. angel-five - 10/8/2000 1:53:19 PM

No, Marsha, it's a jalapeno. I grow the things, I should know. Larger variety, milder flavor. Same cultivar.

5754. marshame - 10/8/2000 1:54:37 PM

Are you ready to retract on the cumin?

5755. angel-five - 10/8/2000 1:55:29 PM

I've had them. My best friend's wife insists on making them sometimes. They're boring and if I have more than two I begin to feel a little nauseous. She uses Jiffy mix, creamed corn, and whatever the Jiffy mix calls for.

The woman can make mean chili, but the muffins suck.

5756. angel-five - 10/8/2000 1:58:56 PM

Retract on the cumin?

I think you aren't grasping something here. I'm not likely to change what I'm cooking because Marshamarshamarsha thinks it something that she'd never do.

If I change something, it's because it doesn't taste good. This tastes good. It tastes better than without the cumin (I know, I made it once and forgot to add it).

5757. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:01:54 PM

And I reiterate: Jalapenos are mild peppers. If you want a hot pepper, try a scotch bonnet, a birdseye, a Thai hot or a habanero. Jalapenos barely have any heat at all in comparison.

5758. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:03:03 PM

Incidently, I've made the dressing with pine nuts instead of walnuts. I much prefer walnuts.

5759. marshame - 10/8/2000 2:06:21 PM

Aren't you in Ohio or someplace? Maybe there's a problem with your soil if your jalapenos aren't hot. Here in Texas, they come in Hot, Very Hot, and Death-By-Jalapeno-Hot. We know our peppers down here, and jalapenos are HOT.

I couldn't imagine eating more than 2 corn muffins, not matter how good they are. Remember, less is more!

5760. mgleason - 10/8/2000 2:14:02 PM

A few basic Cuban recipes, close to the ad hoc way in which I prepare them. One substitution of note: I always use one cup of beer per cup of water when making arroz con pollo. Additionally, Goya's Adobo (seasoning) is a great complement to other your other spices. Since it contains salt, I don't have to add the dreaded ingredient separately, and find that the Adobo mixture cuts down the need for it considerably.

A Taste of Cuba

5761. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:14:58 PM

Only pikers think that jalapenos are all of that; it's like calling it pornography if Connie Chung has a low neckline.

5762. marshame - 10/8/2000 2:17:19 PM

Uh huh. Again, aren't you someplace like Ohio? Where they celebrate Cinco de Mayonaise?

5763. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:24:52 PM

(laugh) No one here celebrates the Fifth, this is true. It doesn't have much to do with the peppers, though. The microclime of the area is pretty suited to growing hot peppers; hot summers that are short of rain during July and early August, moraine soil. A teaspoon of brined Thai Hots from the garden will bring tears to your eyes and render you temporarily unable to speak.

Jalapenos just aren't that hot. They're a good choice for a dish that you want just a little heat in but nothing out of the ordinary.

5764. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:28:49 PM

Ok, what I had in my garden last summer:

Habs (por supuesto)
Thai hots
Hungarian hot wax
Jalapenos (normal cultivar)
Cayenne
Serranos
I know I'm forgetting one or two. Some mild stuffing pepper that I forget the name of. I'd love to grow Scotch Bonnetts here but the season is a little short to let them get to full burn, you want four solid months of heat for them and three and a half here is pushing it.

5765. marshame - 10/8/2000 2:37:20 PM

Angel Five

Oh, I see you're a pepper expert. well you might find this site helpful

Please note one of the links is for TexMex recipes. We know a thing or two about chiles down here.

5766. marshame - 10/8/2000 2:42:44 PM

The point about the cumin is that I don't believe you when you say you actually put a tablespoon of cumin seed into your salad and then fed it to people. Because if you did, you certainly wouldn't be braggin about it! You'd be giving us all a cautionary tale about the dangers of using strong spices without knowing what you're doing.

5767. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:46:13 PM

Most of the recipes don't even call for specific peppers. Canned chiles, indeed. So go on with your 'we know a thing or two about chiles'.

I do note with a certain smugness that the linked list of peppers -- hot ranging to mild -- features jalapenos on the mild half.

5768. PelleNilsson - 10/8/2000 2:47:35 PM

Marshamarshamarsha isn't picking it up, is she, Johnjohnjohn?

5769. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:47:44 PM

Whatever. Try it. Why on earth would I lie about using cumin seed?

5770. marshame - 10/8/2000 2:49:15 PM

Pelle are you still made about that prune remark?

5771. mgleason - 10/8/2000 2:50:32 PM

I usually put a dash of cumin in most Caribbean recipes, but you're right, it is an extremely overpowering spice. I won't even buy the Adobo which includes cumin because it negates the effect of the other seasonings.

On the subject of peppers, I especially enjoy one called 'aji cachucha,' but I don't know its name in English. We pickle it and use it as a relish.

5772. marshame - 10/8/2000 2:52:11 PM

I had two exchange students from Colima, Mexico, staying with me a while back, and they liked the canned jalapenos as an accompaniment with everything. I myself had never bought a can of jalapenos until then.

Okay, I think I've figured it out. You probably de-seed the jalapenos before you use them. That explains why you think they're mild. The seeds are what's loaded with heat.

5773. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:53:07 PM

I saw a recipe once that called for an entire quarter cup of ground cumin. It was in the Newman cookbook.

5774. angel-five - 10/8/2000 2:54:47 PM

Marsha:

No, I don't deseed them. They aren't that hot. Grasp that. Your little list already has.

5775. marshame - 10/8/2000 2:55:55 PM

When using any spice, take Maria's advice and start with a dash! And again, I ask, what are you trying to accomplish with your particular dish? WWIII of the Taste Sensations?

5776. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 2:57:52 PM

Cumin is one of my favourite spices and one I use a lot. I don't find anything peculiar about using a tablespoon full of the seed at all. I do find it peculiar that someone would use a cup of coriander (cilantro to you). The stuff tastes like soap.

5777. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:00:42 PM

Snow Owl

Cilantro is used fresh, and tastes not in the least like coriander. Texture is like parsley but flavor is one that is very distinctive in many Mexican recipes. I believe it's also called Chinese parsley in some places.

5778. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 3:02:10 PM

marshame

In every part of the world other than North America, the plant which you call cilantro is known as coriander.

5779. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:02:42 PM

Pelle
re Message # 5768. I just got it! Jeez, talk about a flash back!! We must be ancient. I will only say one other word: Snowdrift. But this crowd thinks Brady Bunch.

5780. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:03:10 PM

Marsha, you brag about Jiffy muffins and you repeatedly criticize something you've never tasted. You link a site that has generic recipes in it as some kind of proof that you know chile peppers, and you trumpet a pepper as hot that the site which you so proudly linked lists as mild. On top of that you're an abstemious repressed Baptist with a chemically rewired brain. Your advice, unintentionally humorous as it is, is nevertheless not to be trusted.

5781. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:04:25 PM

Hahahahahaha. You twit, cilantro IS coriander.

5782. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:05:55 PM

Cilantro is used fresh, and tastes not in the least like coriander.

Hahahahaha.

5783. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:06:34 PM

Thanks for playing 'I know what the hell I'm talking about and I'm gonna say other people don't.' We have some nice consolation prizes for you.

5784. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:06:52 PM

Correction: fresh cilantro tastes not in the least like ground coriander. There, happy?

5785. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:09:56 PM

Oh, sure, sure.

5786. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:10:14 PM

The only first place you win, Angel Five, is in the Smug, Self-Righteous, Pompousity category. And you win that one walking away. I will not try your salad recipe because I do not want to ruin a perfectly good bunch of fresh spinach. And I can read. and I don't have to taste it to know that spinach, cilantro, vinegar, oil, walnuts, jalapeno and cumin are a ghastly combination for anyone with a palate that is not dead.

5787. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 3:10:20 PM

From the Epicurious Dictionary

cilantro

[sih-LAHN-troh, see-LAHN-troh]
The bright green leaves and stems of the CORIANDER plant. Cilantro (also called Chinese parsley and coriander ) has a lively, pungent fragrance that some describe as "soapy." It is widely used in Asian, Caribbean and Latin American cooking and its distinctive flavor lends itself to highly spiced foods. Cilantro can be found year-round in most supermarkets and is generally sold in bunches. Choose leaves with a bright, even color and no sign of wilting. Cilantro may be stored for up to 1 week in a plastic bag in the refrigerator. Or place the bunch, stems down, in a glass of water and cover with a plastic bag, securing the bag to the glass with a rubber band. Refrigerate, changing water every 2 or 3 days. Just before using cilantro, wash and pat dry with paper towels. Both the leaves and relatively tender stems can be used in fresh or cooked dishes.

5788. mgleason - 10/8/2000 3:11:23 PM

Yes, fresh cilantro has a tangy taste quite unlike that of ground coriander. Cilantro'd potatoes make the ordinary parsleyed kind grind their livers in envy.

5789. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 3:11:54 PM

And as I said, in most parts of the world the fresh leaves are called coriander, not cilantro. I used to read American cookbooks and wonder what they were talking about when the recipes contained cilantro.

5790. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:14:26 PM

Ground coriander is usually coriander seed, not coriander itself. Hence the difference.

Marshamarshamarsha:

Now, now. Smug, Self Righteous,"Pompousity", and correct category. I'm sure there's a category for you somewhere, though, don't fret.

Come on, provoke some more.

5791. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 3:14:36 PM

I grow it and have tried to acquire a taste for it, but it still tastes like soap to me. I love ground coriander though, it's just the fresh stuff that has that peculiar taste for me.

5792. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:16:58 PM

A-5
Well, over in the International Thread, Pseudoerasmus is calling you a simpleton and that you don't know what the f*** you're talking about. But you can stay in the kitchen and play with us girls if you feel more confident here.

5793. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:17:55 PM

You either love it or hate it. It's like anchovies that way. My favorite way to have cilantro is in fresh salsa, but I've grown to like it in a lot of different dishes.

5794. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:19:38 PM

I know, I'm chatting with him right now. He may be right about the Serbs, although he is of course doing his standard oversimplification in order to belittle schtick.

That doesn't change anything WRT you being revealed as a know-nothing pecksniff, though. Have a nice day!

5795. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:20:09 PM

I believe I see ground coriander seed in sweet recipes, such as cookies. No?

5796. mgleason - 10/8/2000 3:20:18 PM

I enjoy the taste of ground coriander, too, SnowOwl. Fresh cilantro begins to taste soapy to me when there's too much of it, but I love it in moderation.

5797. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 3:26:25 PM

marshame,

I think it might be used that way, although I don't. I do a lot of Indian cooking and use it in that mostly.

mgleason,

It's like everything I suppose. You like it or you don't. My family love it so I continue to grow it and hope that one day I'll develop a taste for the stuff. I've never ground my own seeds though, I find it a lot easier to buy the stuff ready ground.

5798. angel-five - 10/8/2000 3:27:42 PM

I tried making ground coriander from the seeds of bolted cilantro plants once. It turned out ok, I suppose, but was a horrendous pain to do.

5799. mgleason - 10/8/2000 3:27:49 PM

I've made cookies flavored with cloves, ginger, aniseed, and coriander which are tasty.

5800. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 3:29:35 PM

oh, now they do sound good, mgleason.

5801. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:29:42 PM

mg

I've had cookies that I believe are called Mexican Wedding Cakes, which are little round white mounded cookies that are flavored with those spices. I've never made them, though.

5802. mgleason - 10/8/2000 3:40:54 PM

I'll post the directions over in the Recipes thread. I found the recipe at cookierecipe.com.

5803. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:53:24 PM

Angel Five
I have one final comment, and then I have to go cook dinner. The reason people don't like you is because you can't just deal in ideas, you have to insult people. And you have an infantile need to call people names. The following is a summary of the names we have called each other in this little exchange:
What marshame calls Angel Five
5745 Oh baby
5750 My dear Angel Five
5765 you're a pepper expert

What Angel Five calls marshame
5735 You're kinda pathetic
5744 beast of ill-omen, swamp donkey that thou art
5780 you're an abstemious repressed Baptist with a chemically rewired brain
5782 You twit

5804. marshame - 10/8/2000 3:55:34 PM

Oops, I forgot your last reference to me:
5795 a know-nothing pecksniff

Part of being the bon vivant that you imagine yourself to be is in being able to control yourself when you get angry and not call others nasty names.

5805. angel-five - 10/8/2000 4:07:30 PM

But I'm not angry, Marshamarshamarsha. You don't grasp that? You started out being provocative and argumentative. When I didn't address you you followed me into another thread and brought it up again. All I did was reverse the game on you, for good measure. It didn't take long to evoke the sort of response in you that you were so plainly looking for in me.

And let's be honest, shall we? After all it's the best policy -- it's disingenuous to characterize your posts of today with the words 'baby, dear, and expert'. Whereas my posts to you can probably be fairly summed up as you have done, provided that you ground that summation with the knowledge that it was a deliberately adopted style in the face of what you were saying.

5806. angel-five - 10/8/2000 4:12:31 PM

Really, you rarely make me angry. The only reason I mock you the way I do is, well, I'm not always nice, and you deserve it resoundingly. It's how I feel, and at least I'm honest about it with folks like you instead of acting pretentiously cute and visibly two-faced.

Lots of people here will comment on how I take a perverse sort of pleasure in playing tit for tat with idiots and bigots. They apparently see it as a character flaw and they are of course exactly right. But it's much less of one than being a bigoted idiot. I content myself with this.

5807. mgleason - 10/8/2000 7:47:26 PM

BTW, the flan is like buttah, to coin a phrase. I am verklemmt over the thought of giving most of it away.

5808. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 7:55:22 PM

Drats. I posted this on the recipe thread by mistake, so I'll repost here:

Thanks for posting the cookie recipe, mgleason. It really does look very good - an interesting combination of flavours.

It won't be too long before I'll be starting Christmas baking (cakes and puddings are made already, and are being fed weekly with brandy), so I'll test this one then.

5809. CalGal - 10/8/2000 8:01:51 PM

Yes, she takes 25 years to finish her kitchen, but she's got her Christmas cakes done early!

5810. mgleason - 10/8/2000 8:04:23 PM

Good, SnowOwl; I do hope you enjoy it.

Your cakes and puddings will be deliciously lethal by Christmas, since they're already lapping up the brandy. I'll be making bread pudding (out of stale Cuban bread) next weekend, but it'll be promptly consumed.

5811. SnowOwl - 10/8/2000 8:10:18 PM

It's a question of priorities, Cal. I love Christmas cake, but I'm such a terrible housekeeper that it doesn't bother me if the place is undecorated and in a state of constant disarray.

mgleason, I made a yummy bread pudding once with a particularly delicious whiskey sauce. I didn't realise until sometime later that I'd misread 1/2 cup of whiskey as 2 cups (don't ask, I often don't read recipes particularly closely). It certainly warmed the cockles.

5812. CalGal - 10/8/2000 8:13:01 PM

Snow, good lord, I wasn't criticizing you. I'm the same way.

5813. mgleason - 10/8/2000 8:17:07 PM

Ha! I'll bet the old cockles were left gasping for more.

I'm not a strict recipe-follower; I improvise a bit even when I first try out a new one. I read recipes more for ideas than anything else, since I've a pretty good idea of how many things will taste together.

5814. JudithAtHome - 10/9/2000 9:34:01 AM

That would be an interesting poll to take: who follows recipes to the letter and who uses them as a base from which to improvise?

I use recipes for ideas, like Maria; I can read a recipe for the main ingredients and then improvise from there, except in baking which usually requires more scrupulous measurements.



marsha:

My friend in Oklahoma makes those corn muffins you described but from scratch...she adds shredded cheddar chesse and chopped peppers along with the corn; they are delicious and almost like a meal in themselves. Oh, she has added crumbled, browned sausage to them, too. Of course, you wouldn't serve this "full Monty" version with anything heavy.

5815. Jenerator - 10/9/2000 1:29:10 PM

SnowOwl,

My sponsor in England is married to a professional chef used the word "cilantro" in some of her dishes.


Marsha,

Whaddya say we make Angel-Five's recipe using a Texas jalapeno and send it to him for Christmas? The tears will be enough to make it all worth it.

5816. Jenerator - 10/9/2000 1:30:13 PM

who used the word...

5817. SnowOwl - 10/9/2000 2:06:33 PM

Jenerator

I'm not surprised. Chefs do tend to want to give their dishes what they consider "fancy" names. It doesn't change the fact that the herb is called usually called coriander in all of its form, leaf, seed and ground seed.

5818. SnowOwl - 10/9/2000 2:06:43 PM

Jenerator

I'm not surprised. Chefs do tend to want to give their dishes what they consider "fancy" names. It doesn't change the fact that the herb is usually called coriander in all of its form, leaf, seed and ground seed.

5819. SnowOwl - 10/9/2000 2:07:19 PM

Drats! Sorry.

5820. Jenerator - 10/9/2000 2:09:39 PM

Not a problem, I was just responding to your claim that it's only called cilantro in N. America.

5821. SnowOwl - 10/9/2000 2:12:15 PM

I'm with Maria and Judith when it comes to recipes, although I follow recipes a little more closely when I'm baking.

I skim through recipes to see if there are unusual ingredients that I might not have thought of adding to various dishes but in general my cooking is mostly a case of "what have I got in the fridge and what would be good with it".

5822. SnowOwl - 10/9/2000 2:15:38 PM

Jenerator

It's certainly unusual for it to be called cilantro in the UK, but given the trend to Americanisation of so much if food names followed it wouldn't surprise me much.

5823. Jenerator - 10/9/2000 2:37:46 PM

Very, very true. At Asda one day (the UK version of Walmart), my roommates found a jar of "Authentic Texas Beans" and bought it for me thinking they had found a treasure. In a sense they had because in the can were *refried* beans, not beans in sauce. I've never seen such sonsumption of American culture outside of America. TV, fashion, music, decorating, food, etc.!

5824. Jenerator - 10/9/2000 2:38:35 PM

I cannot spell...back to work!

5825. SnowOwl - 10/9/2000 2:44:28 PM

Interesting. I don't find such an overwhelming American influence in the UK at all, although I must admit its been 5 years since I last spent much time there. I'll be there again in February so I'll see for myself if there have been major changes since my last visit.

5826. janjon - 10/9/2000 3:23:33 PM

What is a brandywine? From that recipe Angel-5 posted, I suspect it is either a melon or a squash, but....

5827. SnowOwl - 10/9/2000 3:36:06 PM

It's a tomato (at least it is a tomato here in NZ).

5828. Jenerator - 10/9/2000 11:28:39 PM

SnowOwl,

I lived in Canterbury and it was my experience that the English were enormous consumers of American culture. As I've said before, the fashion, television, music, and food were heavily influenced by the US. The McDonalds in this medieval town was the busiest I had ever seen. All the kids and yound adults wore US styled clothes and listened to N'Sync and Brittney Spears. Prime Time TV featured "Friends", "the Simpson", and "Buffy The Vampire Slayer".

5829. JudithAtHome - 10/10/2000 9:31:59 AM

Well, jeez, why even leave home then? Just kidding....

I, personally, hate this trend of universal pollution by American ways. If I spend the money to go to Europe or Asia, I want a more pure experience of another culture.

5830. SnowOwl - 10/10/2000 2:20:29 PM

Judith

I think Jenerator's overestimating the impact. The most popular eat out places where I live are, at the moment, sushi bars. Does that mean we're being overwhelmed by Japanese culture?

5831. arkymalarky - 10/10/2000 7:40:35 PM

Well-traveled I ain't, but when I was in England three years ago I was struck by how they seemed not to be influenced by American culture at all (McDonald's notwithstanding, as they were everywhere in Europe we went, including Venice). And I saw nothing of American shows on TV. It was just like watching latenight PBS.

5832. thoughtful - 10/10/2000 9:06:22 PM

I find I have a problem with recipes...when perusing them, I find I gravitate towards those with familiar, easy to get and tried and true ingredients. If I come across one ingredient I don't like, I quickly move on. Thus all my cooking ends up being rather similar. The only way I know around this is to purposely look for something I don't think I'd like....but then who wants to take the time and make the effort to cook something you think you'll hate. Ah, to not be a fussy eater.

Last week though, for the first time I baked Tilapia -- it was very good and mild. Served it to my parents and the consensus was it was a good fish...and no bones.

5833. arkymalarky - 10/10/2000 11:25:36 PM

I'm about to go to bed and the coyotes are really yipping and howling. They sound like they're right in the yard, bunches of them. Must be the moon and the cool weather.

5834. SnowOwl - 10/11/2000 2:01:24 AM

It alway sounds so exotic when people talk about such things as coyotes howling outside their windows. The only things that howl round here are the neighbour's dratted dogs.

I was perusing a rose list I subscribe to a while ago and came across someone complaining that an armadillo was eating her roses. I don't know whether there was any truth in it, since I thought armadillos were insect eaters, but I was overcome with envy. I really wanted to go outside and find an armadillo in my garden. Alas, we don't have them in NZ.

5835. mgleason - 10/11/2000 9:29:29 AM

There is a wicked neighborhood armadillo who takes a spot right outside the fence to tease our dogs. They go crazy, telling her what they'd do to her if only they could, and she just smiles.

5836. Ronski - 10/11/2000 9:38:40 AM

We have coyotes howling and an owl hooting at night, plus strange rustling noises in the brush which come from who knows what.

On Monday, at about two in the afternoon, it snowed for about five minutes, warming my heart.

In Binghamton, New York, they had an inch of snow, the earliest in recorded history.

It also snowed in West Virginia, Vermont, Maine, etc.

5837. bubbaette - 10/11/2000 9:47:39 AM

I'd like to see an armadillo smile. I've seen a possum with babies riding on her back in my neighborhood, but not an armadillo.

5838. mgleason - 10/11/2000 9:56:29 AM

You haven't lived until you do, Bub. We have possums, too, but I've never seen one carry her li'l possums.

When I lived in NY, I was on friendly terms with a family of raccoons that ran training missions for their young'uns in our neighborhood. Everyone would place bricks on their garbage can lids to stop them, and they'd lift the bricks, gently place them on the ground, and have the time of their lives.

5839. glendajean - 10/11/2000 11:19:54 AM

My little town is two blocks from a cliff overlooking the river, and as a result we get a lot of birds and wildlife -- I've seen a beaver once, and waddling ducks on our street.

The neighbors had told me about the large crested woodpeckers that are sometimes sighted. I actually saw one rising from a tree in my backyard -- it was amazing.

5840. SnowOwl - 10/11/2000 2:48:53 PM

NZ's quite limited in terms of its wildlife. There were no mammals at all until the arrival of man, apart from a very small native bat. The absence of large predators meant that many of our birds are flightless, which became a big problem for them with the arrival of man.

Our worst pests are rabbits and possums (the Australian, not North American variety), which have devastated the native bush and destroyed the habitat of lots of our native birds. There are a number of conservation programmes under way to help save some of the bird species, but it's already too late for a number of them.

5841. angel-five - 10/11/2000 2:50:13 PM

Binghamton, the town where if you don't use Corningware they shoot you.

5842. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:18:28 PM

Oh, my. You have to try this.

8 oz Portos, chopped into bitesize chunks
One boneless chicken breast, likewise
6 cloves garlic
half a lemon's juice
1/4 cup white wine
~1 teaspoon paprika
1 jalapeno tightly diced (if you're afraid of jalapenos add whatever you're not afraid of)
One slice Vidalia, diced likewise
Salt and pepper
Half a cup parsley
Prolly a tablespoon fresh thyme


Ports and chicken breast stir-fried in olive oil of low enough heat that the juices collect -- start with the chicken and add the ports a little later.

Add everything else a little later, saving the fresh herbs. Simmer five minutes, add the herbs, simmer a minute, serve with bread.

5843. glendajean - 10/11/2000 4:22:27 PM

Angel -- hope you don't mind, but I copied your post and put it in the Recipe sub-thread -- it will be easier to find for folk looking for recipes. Feel free to post food ideas here, but if you can remember, copy them into Recipe. Maybe we'll have Mote Cookbook someday.

5844. JudithAtHome - 10/11/2000 4:24:48 PM

A5:

I always have trouble adding portobellas to any recipe; whatever I'm making usually turns black (or grey) after the portabellas. Once I was appalled as my beautiful risotto that I had lovingly stirred for almost an hour began to turn this icky grey as I added the portos...it still tasted good but was very unappetizing "looking"...most people tend to steer away from grey food.

What am I doing wrong?

5845. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:25:17 PM

Oops.

Add the onion and the garlic in with the chicken at the start.

GJ: Gotcha.

5846. mgleason - 10/11/2000 4:26:37 PM

Six cloves of garlic, eh?

5847. janjon - 10/11/2000 4:26:54 PM

That recipe is the type that lends itself to all sorts of modifications, too.

For instance, I know without having tried it, that it would be terrific with some chopped or diced celery (esp. if it includes some of the leafy green tops) added right at the end of the cooking.

(I happen to think that celery is one of the unsung cooking ingredients around. Adds texture AND taste.)

You could do the celery without the parsley or with, but probably a bit better without.

5848. janjon - 10/11/2000 4:27:59 PM

at least six cloves, would be my recommendation. BIG ones, too. Sliced, not diced.

5849. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:28:12 PM

Judith: That happens. Don't know how to stop it. One of my favorite quick recipes is portos, cured salami and really fresh kraut stirfried with salt and pepper and a little garlic and wine. It turns like concrete grey which is why I never make it for company.

5850. theDiva - 10/11/2000 4:29:11 PM

I find that if you cook the mushrooms first in hot oil whilst salting them, it will seal the mushrooms and the color won't leak.

5851. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:30:14 PM

Maria:

Garlic, garlic, garlic. Of course you may adjust.

5852. JudithAtHome - 10/11/2000 4:30:21 PM

A5:

Maybe I'll do an all grey menu some night...on a particularly grim afternoon, cold and rainy.

On second thought........

5853. CalGal - 10/11/2000 4:30:39 PM

GJ,

You could start a conversation thread for each type of recipe, you know. It wouldn't be as perfect as a cookbook page, but it'd be a nice step inbetween.

5854. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:30:56 PM

That's my Deev.

5855. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:32:21 PM

When making steak dinner I cook the ports like that, except I add worcestershire and a little beer and I serve them with some blue cheese on the side.

5856. mgleason - 10/11/2000 4:32:33 PM

Really, Janjon? I run 'em through the garlic press, so three would be a goodly amount, IMO. I'd also add more onion and half a red bell pepper, and nix the jalapeño.

Of course, I'd marinate the chicken first (having rubbed in thyme and rosemary), in a sour orange/garlic blend.

5857. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:33:17 PM

I always used to just slice and smash garlic but I just love the little press I have now. So that's what I do.

5858. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:34:25 PM

I have hunted and hunted and hunted for sour orange. And never found it. Turbinado sugar I found after a while and now wouldn't dream of not having it. But no sour orange.

5859. mgleason - 10/11/2000 4:34:38 PM

I soak the mushrooms in a bit of lemon juice, then the color doesn't bleed.

5860. glendajean - 10/11/2000 4:34:56 PM

Cal -- I have to admit reading discussions about "conversation" functions, but I haven't figured out what they are or how to activate them. I'll have more time tomorrow night to explore this new corner of the Mote.

5861. janjon - 10/11/2000 4:36:35 PM

Well, I love garlic in any of its forms. I just find that if it is being cooked and with a recipe also calling for onions, you either have to time things so that the onions saute for a considerable while before adding the garlic or the garlic will burn. Relatively large (larger than the diced onion for sure) slices of garlic minimize that problem. Plus, I like the extra taste and crunch that a nicely but not too browned hunk of garlic has.

5862. mgleason - 10/11/2000 4:37:09 PM

Sour orange is fantastic. I cannot live without it.

5863. JudithAtHome - 10/11/2000 4:38:30 PM

I love baked garlic that you can squeeze out onto crusty French bread slices....yum!

5864. angel-five - 10/11/2000 4:40:52 PM

Janjon: I've found I have less trouble with that if I use a little lower heat so as to maintain the liquid, but if I think it's going to brown a little too much I just add some wine. That's how the Angel does things.

I'm going to post another recipe in the subthread.

5865. mgleason - 10/11/2000 4:43:57 PM

Yes, Janjon; that's how I sauté garlic and onions, too. I don't have problems with burning that way.

5866. janjon - 10/11/2000 4:53:04 PM

Well, the main reason I use slices or chunks, is that I love garlic that way.

Wine? But of course. That is the unspoken ingredient of most saute recipes.

5867. janjon - 10/11/2000 4:54:36 PM

Just what form does sour orange come in? Is it a concentrate? bottled? paste (which I doubt)? Is this somewhat the equivalent of a blood orange in taste?

5868. theDiva - 10/11/2000 4:55:07 PM

I think I'll make me some hoppin' john for dinner.

5869. janjon - 10/11/2000 4:58:08 PM

and what is hoppin' john?

5870. mgleason - 10/11/2000 4:58:40 PM

My neighbors have a sour orange tree (very small, bitter oranges), so I usually have a fresh supply. If not, I buy the bottled variety (like lemon juice). It simply cannot be outdone as one of the basic ingredients for marinades.

5871. theDiva - 10/11/2000 5:00:54 PM

black eyed peas and rice. First you saute red onions, garlic and celery in olive oil; then you add the black eyed peas, molasses, crushed red pepper, and apple cider vinegar. That simmers for a bit, you add cooked rice, and yum yum.

5872. PelleNilsson - 10/11/2000 5:04:43 PM

janjon --- #5867

So very American. Suppose sour oranges come in the form of sour oranges. Natural. Shocking, no?

5873. JudithAtHome - 10/11/2000 5:07:31 PM

Jeez, Pelle...there's no need to be snide. These days in cooking, strange ingredients abound and there are no doubt some even you aren't familiar with...

5874. mgleason - 10/11/2000 5:08:39 PM

Sounds good, Diva. I'm going to try it this weekend.

5875. angel-five - 10/11/2000 5:29:21 PM

Ah, take it easy on the Swede. He just found out that PE's been mocking him all this time with his name and didn't know it.

5876. angel-five - 10/11/2000 5:29:52 PM

What I need is a good recipe for red beans and rice. I don't like any of the ones I've got.

5877. mgleason - 10/11/2000 5:39:02 PM

I'll post one when I find my Cuban cookbook, but the recipe for frijoles colorados has things like calabaza (a pumpkin-like squash) and chorizo (cured, not fresh, and not Portuguese) in it. It is scrumptious. (The reason I need the cookbook is because I need to get weights and measures right.)

5878. angel-five - 10/11/2000 5:41:05 PM

Well, I can get cured chorizo here. Love the stuff. Used to make my own for paella.

5879. angel-five - 10/11/2000 5:42:01 PM

I always thought that red beans and rice was a New Orleans recipe, though.

5880. mgleason - 10/11/2000 5:44:28 PM

And Creoles are what, besides French?

5881. angel-five - 10/11/2000 5:47:33 PM

Li'l bitta ev'rything, non?

5882. mgleason - 10/11/2000 5:48:36 PM

Spanish, for one thing; hence, red beans.

5883. janjon - 10/11/2000 5:56:09 PM

Pelle. A little below your standards, don't you think?

Lets compare with something right down your alley. Anchovies. By golly, when it comes to cooking they come in all sorts of forms - natural, in cute little tins, and even in tubes as in anchovy paste.

By gum, would you believe that I've seen citrus products prepared for cooking here that take the form of natural, condensed, quasi- or semi- paste, and bottled juice. (Now, true, we don't used bottled Anchovy Juice, but the comparison is apt enough and maybe that is something you are accustomed to.)

American, indeed.

5884. mgleason - 10/11/2000 6:17:51 PM

Frijoles Colorados à la Cubana in Recipes.

5885. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 1:00:09 AM

Americans are very thin-skinned.

5886. angel-five - 10/12/2000 1:04:55 AM

Anchovy juice. The thought is going to keep me up tonight. (shudder) Somewhere some vile Swede is drinking it even now...

5887. concerned - 10/12/2000 1:28:26 AM

This may sound contradictory, but is there a way to keep deer around, but avoid damage to property from them? I will soon be moving to a house that I'm having built on almost 12 acres, and, while I like deer, I understand that they can be destructive of plantings, vegetation & young trees.

5888. theDiva - 10/12/2000 7:54:52 AM

shoot 'em and mount 'em.

5889. bubbaette - 10/12/2000 8:39:23 AM

You can use deer netting. My sister put up deer netting on three sides of her property to protect her azaleas and hostas that were getting eaten up by herds of deer. The netting is about 6 ft high but blends into the background. If you don't want to border the property, you can stake it just around the bushes and plants you want to protect, but that's a bit more noticable.

5890. bubbaette - 10/12/2000 8:40:14 AM

Of course she didn't net a full 12 acres, but just around the house where she had plantings.

5891. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 8:42:06 AM

A clarification. I happen to like anchovies but they are not part of traditional Swedish cooking. To add some confusion: should you ever visit a Swedish shop you will se tins marked "ansjovies". But that's a quite different fish - small marinated herrings.

5892. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 8:48:09 AM

Anchovies, by the way, are called "sardeller" here.

5893. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:06:24 AM

Pelle

People give you an awful lot of trouble over this whole tinned fish issue. Keep your head up, hon.

5894. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 9:16:28 AM

Pelle:

My mom had shark at a restaurant in your country and was thrilled with it; she kept asking for it the rest of the trip. Is that a usual dish there? Or was it a mangled translation? Not meaning any offense because all the Scandinavians spoke English VERY well; I was embarrassed because of course, as Americans, we spoke no foreign languages....what I meant by mangled translation was could it have been another type fish?

5895. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 9:18:06 AM

Apologies if I've asked this before; I live in fear of Alzheimers and repetition...

5896. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 9:26:22 AM

Judith

I have never seen shark served in a restaurant here. I had shark once, in Algeria. It resembles tuna but the texture is more coarse. I'm trying to think of a homonyme, but offhand nothing comes up.

5897. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 9:30:46 AM

Well, my mom was thrilled that she was eating "shark"; she is gone now but even if she were here, I wouldn't burst her little bubble if I found she hadn't eaten it. I think it made her feel exotic!

5898. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 9:50:14 AM

Judith

I don't want to exclude the possibility, in particular if this took place on the west coast. Fishermen do land shark from time to time.

This is a "Swedish" shark:

5899. marjoribanks - 10/12/2000 9:53:49 AM

As for anchovy juice, please note that not only does it exist but it is a key ingredient in Worcestershire Sauce and absolutely the main ingredient in all those essential fish sauces used in Vietnamese and Thai cooking.

5900. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 9:54:56 AM

Just so they keep it out of cocktails....

5901. Thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:56:20 AM

concerned, best deer repellent I've found is tying bars of ivory soap in the ornamental bushes you want left alone....they don't like the smell and won't eat it. But you do have to replace the soap bars after about 6 mos as they lose their fragrance and the deer move in.

5902. marjoribanks - 10/12/2000 9:59:05 AM

Hey, I happen to like Clamato both in cocktails and straight on the rocks.And it has clam juice in it. Also, I've started to become addicted to the aisle of Japanese snacks at the giant international place near me and its amazing how often theres a dash of the fishy stuff in their best offerings. One particular flavor combines honey, horseradish and seaweed flavors and another peas and anchovy powder. These may sound gross but believe me if you tried them you'd never pick up a dorito again.

5903. Thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:59:25 AM

If you are a steak lover, try skirt steaks. A lot of people don't know about them so their price tends to be lower, but they are most delicious and tender. Butchers always used to horde them for their own families. They are thin and cook quickly. I sprinkle with montreal seasoning before grilling. Yum.

5904. glendajean - 10/12/2000 10:00:33 AM

Concerned -- you can also plant bushes and shrubs that deer don't like. Any reputable nursery in your area should be able to tip you off to a list of plants that are good for your region but not for the deers supper.

Also, you local agricutlural extension agent should be able to provide information.

5905. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 10:15:12 AM

marjoribanks:

I eat those Japanese snacks all the time...my faves are the wasabe peas.

I thought of Clamato as soon as I wrote that about the cocktails. Maybe an anchovie bloody mary isn't so far fetched after all!

5906. marjoribanks - 10/12/2000 10:20:17 AM

I used to be addicted to the hot variety of the wasabi peas.

But, anyway, I've yet to encounter a bloody mary not made with Lea&Perrins. IOW, they all contain some anchovy extract.

5907. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 10:23:40 AM

Oh wow! Anchovy cocktails are the norm, then!

5908. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 10:27:08 AM

If you thoroughly mash a couple of anchovies, mix with soft butter and add some tomato purée you get an excellent condiment to go with a grilled steak.

5909. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 10:30:59 AM

That sounds strangely delicious...

5910. glendajean - 10/12/2000 10:39:04 AM

Saturday night, my little town has its annual chili cook-off. I had to special order coarse ground beef from a local market.

5911. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 11:01:34 AM

GJ:

I pray that you are not using any cloves or cinnamon in your chili!

5912. glendajean - 10/12/2000 11:02:53 AM

My dear, that wouldn't be chili.

Nor will I allow any pasta products within ten feet of my chili pot.

5913. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 11:05:55 AM

I hope you burn their tastebuds off.....!

5914. glendajean - 10/12/2000 11:08:18 AM

Nah, I bail on the burn. I enjoy chili too much to have heartburn afterwards.

5915. JudithAtHome - 10/12/2000 11:13:01 AM

Oh, me too....I like it milder. One concession I make to "ferrin' ingredients" is I sometimes float a bay leaf or two in the chili while it simmers. I used to crush one and add it but since reading that bay leaves are indigestable and can cut your insides, I just float them and toss them before serving.

5916. Ronski - 10/12/2000 11:18:59 AM

I made my fiesta chili the other night, which is essentially a simple ancho chili recipe to which multicolored sweet bell peppers are added, in as many colors as you can find. At a firend's farm out in New Jersey, I had procured green, red, orange, yellow and brown ones.

Oh, and I added a healthy amount of tequila, to deglaze the pan which the onions were fried in. And then some more to the main pot. I am talking fiesta, here.

5917. theDiva - 10/12/2000 12:10:09 PM

wwwwwaaaaasssssssaaaaaaaabi

all this talk of anchovies gives me a craving for my V-8 concoction.

5918. janjon - 10/12/2000 12:32:22 PM

Lest anyone be mistaken, my use of anchovies as a comparison for when Pelle was being unduly snippy should in no way be taken as being derogative of the little fellows.

Anchovies in any form are terrific. (except, I am quite confident, fermented.)

5919. bubbaette - 10/12/2000 12:39:58 PM

A little anchovy paste is great in BBQ sauce.

My bastardized chili recipe

1 pint Bubb's homemade salsa
1 lb ground round, browned in chunks and drained
1 can pinto beans, drained
1/2 tspn cumin
5 or 10 jalapeno slices
1/2 package frozen corn

cook all together and top with cheese -- serve w/ tortilla chips.

5920. theDiva - 10/12/2000 12:41:49 PM

Bubba's salsa.

Bubba's hot jalapeno relish.

Bubba's pickles.

sigh

5921. Ronski - 10/12/2000 12:42:54 PM

There is a Japanese restaurant in Brooklyn which makes wasabi shumai, one of the most delicious things I have ever tasted.

5922. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 2:06:56 PM

janjon

We don't ferment anchovies because the fish is not present in the north-west Atlantic. Now that I think about it I associate anchovies with Peru but the tins available here are from Spain. I anchovies a separate species or is at kind of sardine? Life sure is a mystery.

5923. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 2:07:42 PM

Is anchovies ....

5924. mgleason - 10/12/2000 2:35:53 PM

An anchovy is an anchovy is a herring (or a close relation).

5925. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 2:41:39 PM

Damn. I have to instigate a search. Just when I planned to start on a brief essay I have to do for my Economic History class.

5926. glendajean - 10/12/2000 2:46:40 PM

Maria's right. From my dictionary: any of a family (Engraulidae) of small fishes resembling herrings; a common Mediterranean fish (Engraulis encrasicholus) used spe. in appetizers, as a garnish, and for making sauces and relishes.

I tried to do a quick search and got a jillion fishing sites (anchovies as bait) or recipies.

5927. glendajean - 10/12/2000 2:47:03 PM

toys

5928. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 2:53:08 PM

From the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife:

Name: Northern Anchovy, Engraulis mordax mordax

Geographical range: Baja California to the Queen Charlotte Islands. The center of their abundance is from Magdalena Bay to San Francisco. Their occurrence in Washington waters is sporadic and unpredictable. In some years, larval anchovies can be found in the Strait of Georgia, although the spawning ground for these fish is unknown.

Related species: The northern anchovy is the only member of the Engraulidae family found in Washington waters. Anchovies are not related to, but are frequently associated with the sardine (Sardinops sagax) or sand lance. Anchovies can be distinguished from other forage fish species including herring, surf smelt and sand lance by their large eyes and mouth.

5929. mgleason - 10/12/2000 3:12:30 PM

There seems to be more than one type of anchovy, among them:

Engraulidae:

Coilia dussumieri (Gold-spotted grenadier anchovy)
Engraulis capensis (S.A. Anchovy)
Engraulis encrasicolus (Anchovy)
Engraulis mordax (Northern anchovy)
Engraulis ringens (Peruvian anchoveta)

From Brittanica.com:

Anchovy:

any of numerous schooling saltwater fishes of the family Engraulidae (order Clupeiformes) related to the herring [species of slab-sided, northern fish belonging to the family Clupeidae (order Clupeiformes)]
and distinguished by a large mouth, almost always extending behind the eye, and by a pointed snout. Most of the more than 100 species live in shallow tropical or warm temperate seas, where they often enter brackish water around river mouths. A few tropical anchovies inhabit freshwater.

Anchovies lay large numbers of elongate, transparent, floating eggs in spring and summer. The eggs hatch in about two days, and the larvae sink to the bottom. Young and adult anchovies feed on plankton, and their growth is rapid. Adult anchovies are 10-25 cm (4-10 inches) long. Temperate-water types such as the northern anchovy (Engraulis mordax) and the European anchovy (E. encrasicholus) are important food fishes; tropical ones such as the tropical anchovy or anchoveta (Cetengraulis mysticetus) are important bait, especially in the tuna fishery. Large numbers of anchovies of the genus Coilia, which have long anal fins and tapered bodies, are dried and eaten in China. Many species of anchovies are easily injured and are killed by contact with a net or other solid object.

5930. Ronski - 10/12/2000 3:15:17 PM

It's rough being an anchovy.

5931. mgleason - 10/12/2000 3:18:52 PM

I'll say; short and brutish in apperance, and a short and brutish life.

5932. theDiva - 10/12/2000 3:19:48 PM

But they give their lives to benefit others.

The Noble Anchovy.

5933. Ronski - 10/12/2000 3:22:55 PM

Diva,

Nevertheless, I'm resolving to be nice to everyone in the Mote from here on so that I don't come back as one.

5934. mgleason - 10/12/2000 3:23:25 PM

The Noble Anchovy Stoic: 'I would not give my dead son for any living son in Christendom...'

5935. theDiva - 10/12/2000 3:24:24 PM

ha!

5936. janjon - 10/12/2000 4:40:15 PM

I have no idea why all the talk about anchovies got me thinking about snails, but think of the anomalies there. In one way of life, nothing more than a slug to be squashed upon sight or, at best, given the opportunity to drink themselves to death in beer. In another, pampered and fed the best of foods, albeit in preparation for being cooked and then stabbed with a tong en route to a mouth.

I draw no lasting morals from this.

5937. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 8:29:42 PM

Conc'd,

The deer around here come up to the edge of the trees and are fun to watch, but the dogs keep them out of the yard. Mose's Diva (as opposed to Mote's Diva) was barking just a while ago and I couldn't see anything, then finally noticed three white-tailed deer at the edge of the trees. She finally got them to run, and watching their "flags" bound through the underbrush was cool.

Snow,
If you want the armadillo experience, I know a bunch of Arky gardeners who'd be glad to oblige you. They treat them around here like large rats. An armadillo hole can really trip you up if you're not wary around here. We used to have a big one behind the barn and my little doxie Chili would go all the way down it until not even her tail was showing. I enjoy all the wildlife around here if they're not too pesky (dogs really are good for that), even the armadillos, but despite common sense and all Thoughtful's good and reasonable posts on the topic a while back, I just can't get over my fear of bats.

5938. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 8:34:07 PM

Man, my posts sound like broken records here lately. I don't know why I can't seem to pick up some variety in my phrasing. Tired, I guess.

5939. theDiva - 10/12/2000 8:38:28 PM

oh, you do not sound like a broken record. I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

5940. angel-five - 10/12/2000 8:39:05 PM

You know, I even have a smallish bottle of nam pla in my fridge, I make a Cambodian beef recipe with it. But fish sauce just seems so much more wholesome than fish juice. One you cook with, one you swill.

5941. theDiva - 10/12/2000 8:41:21 PM

still with the fish riff....

5942. angel-five - 10/12/2000 8:42:32 PM

Who knows what these peculiar folk will drink when no one's watching them?

5943. theDiva - 10/12/2000 8:43:56 PM

surely not fish juice.

5944. angel-five - 10/12/2000 8:44:21 PM

The Fish Riff. I caught them when they did House of Blues.

5945. theDiva - 10/12/2000 8:45:03 PM

you crack me up.

5946. angel-five - 10/12/2000 8:47:02 PM

Look, babe. We've both seen Pelle's picture. He's an affable enough chap and quite knowledgeable, and occasionally, when the Swede Police aren't watching him, he's even funny. But look at the glint in his eye as he slings that chainsaw around and ask yourself, really ask yourself -- 'Am I sure this guy wouldn't drink anchovy juice?'

5947. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 8:47:12 PM

Thanks Diva dear. I've been repeating a lot, like in the above I said "around here" at least three times.

I hope you've been well. I've missed you and haven't had time to catch up in the Cafe evenings of late. From your posts I've read it seems like you must be feeling good and less tired?

Man, you people are too exotic for me. Does anyone in this thread use ketchup?

5948. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 8:48:44 PM

Check this out if you want to see the armadillo dance.

5949. angel-five - 10/12/2000 8:50:09 PM

Lea and Perrins? There's fish juice in worcestershire sauce?

This is the sort of thing that could place a man squarely in the beginning of Dr Strangelove.

5950. angel-five - 10/12/2000 8:51:11 PM

I always thought that armadillos were just around so Texans could eat something on the half-shell.

5951. theDiva - 10/12/2000 8:53:46 PM

arky

I've missed you, too...I do feel lots better these days. And I use ketchup.

5952. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 8:54:01 PM

On one of the armadillo sites they posted a joke... how many (group you want to slam here) does it take to eat an armadillo? Three. One to eat the armadillo and two to watch for cars.

5953. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 8:54:26 PM

You've hit on a touchy subject for Arkies, Angel. If it weren't for Texas we wouldn't even have armadillos.

5954. theDiva - 10/12/2000 8:54:47 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

thoughtful, where do you find this stuff?

5955. angel-five - 10/12/2000 8:55:30 PM

Arky:

I eat it on French Fries but as of late I don't like it on anything else.

I have a cousin, well, -- I always forget exactly what relation she is to me, she's my second cousin's daughter, people always tell me what that makes us but I keep forgetting -- anyway, she eats catsup on everything. I half expect her to put it in her milk.

5956. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 8:55:50 PM

Have we ever talked booze in here? I went to dinner last night and a few folks were drinking Cosmopolitans because they saw it on Sex and the City. Any idea what's in it beside cranberry juice to make it red? I didn't find it particularly exciting.

5957. angel-five - 10/12/2000 8:56:46 PM

that's AWESOME. I'm gonna use it on the Bushes when my friend comes out.

5958. theDiva - 10/12/2000 8:56:49 PM

third cousin or second cousin once removed. I forget which. Is she a little kid? My nephew used to put ketchup on everything, even pancakes.

5959. theDiva - 10/12/2000 8:57:39 PM

I don't know, Campari?

5960. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 8:58:59 PM

I saw the neatest article on armadillos in National Geographic, I think, years ago, and it had a picture of an armadillo jumping, which is what often gets them killed when cars try to straddle them, or so the article said. That picture was really comical. It's little toes were pointed straight down. Possums are frequent roadkill. I wonder if it's often because when it's a near miss they "play possum" and the next car gets them.

5961. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 8:59:37 PM

Actually, I only use ketchup when I'm eating armadillo on the half shell.

5962. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:00:11 PM

BRB, gotta go make a phone call.

5963. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:02:35 PM

I don't know. The Angel, when he drinks, pretty much sticks to Libres and Caucasians with the odd foray into other drinks containing rum or Kahlua. And good Scotch when he can cadge some.

Someone just emailed me the most fetching jpeg. It's got a frame with Haley Joel Osment telling Bruce Willis, 'I see stupid people. They're all around. They don't even know that they're stupid.' Since it's an email address I don't usually check I'm sure everyone else has already seen this, but it's new to me.

5964. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:03:12 PM

That dancing armadillo thing -- don't play it too long. Now I've got that hokey song stuck in my head...

5965. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:04:00 PM

They have some kind of downhome feast in AR every year that a lot of the politicians attend (can't remember where) where they serve armadillo and possum among other stereotypical Arkansas fare. I need to look that up and see when, where and what's on the menu. I used to hear it talked about a lot. I know Clinton's been to his share of them, and Dale Bumpers and David Pryor used to go--pretty much anybody who was anybody in AR politics, at least at one time.

5966. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:04:29 PM

what, a white russian?

someone at the office had that picture posted.

5967. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:05:17 PM

my GOD, people really do eat armadilloes?

5968. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:05:26 PM

Arky

I think it's prolly because possums are very, very dumb.

5969. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:07:23 PM

This from soyouwanna.com, a Cosmopolitan

½ oz. Cointreau
½ oz. Triple Sec
1 oz. Vodka
½ oz. Lime Juice
½ oz. Cranberry Juice

Fill a mixing glass halfway with ice. Pour in all ingredients, shake vigorously,and strain into a chilled Martini glass. Garnish with a Lime wedge.

No wonder it tasted so strong. And me I usually only have one glass of wine a week!

5970. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:08:32 PM

Diva:

Indeed they do. Can tumblers full of iced anchovy squeezings really be that far behind?

5971. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:10:21 PM

Likely so, Angel. Not as dumb as squirrels, though, at least in road skills. I've quit hating it when a squirrel gets run over. It's just amazing to watch all the feats they go through before they run smack under the wheel.

I got into White Russians for a while, but I'll bet those things have about a thousand calories a drink. I'm beer and wine only any more, with a very occasional whiskey and coke or water (if it's good whiskey, which it rarely is), but then Bob and I never go out, and making drinks at home is more trouble than I care to go to at home most days for the same end effect as a couple of beers. Bob is strictly a Bud man, himself, so he's pretty cheap to keep in that department.

5972. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:11:08 PM

thoughtful

Egads, that sounds deadly.

A5

So does iced anchovy juice.

5973. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:11:13 PM

Thoughtful:

Aw, that's nuffin. You should have tasted some of the things we'd mix when I lived in the party apartment.

5974. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:11:56 PM

And another recipe...one I won't be trying anytime soon.
Sweet Taters and Possum
First catch a young fat possum. This in itself affords excellent sport on moonlight nights in fall. Remove the fur either by skinning or by soaking the possum in hot lye water, being careful not to get any on the hands. Clean, take off the head and feet (unless you want to cook it like whole roast pig), and wash well. Salt the possum well inside and out and freeze overnight either outdoors or in the refrigerator compartment. When ready to cook, peel 8 sweet potatoes and boil them tender in slightly salted water to which 2 tablespoons of butter and 1 tablespoon of sugar have been added. At the same time, stew the possum tender in a tightly covered pan with a little water. Arrange the potatoes around the possum, strip with bacon, sprinkle with thyme or marjoram, or with pepper, and brown in the oven. Baste often with the drippings. Served hot, it sure is "a dish fo' a king." ARTHUR and BOBBIE COLEMAN, The Texas Cookbook (New York, A. A. Wyn, Inc., 1949)

5975. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:12:47 PM

non-preggo, wine with dinner, Killians with the ball game.

5976. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:13:25 PM

Angel5, I didn't think libres and caucasians mixed!

5977. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:13:40 PM

and no possum.

5978. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:14:38 PM

We had one featuring freezer-chilled 151 and peppermint schnapps in a sugared glass. We'd drink the most amazingly dumb things sometimes.

5979. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:15:20 PM

what's 151?

5980. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:19:08 PM

Aye! 151 rum -- it's 151 proof or 75% alcohol...great for flambeing -- that stuff burns!

5981. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:19:24 PM

The more I think about it the more I realize that we really didn't come up with anything new that actually tasted good, though creme de cacao and cream soda on ice wasn't horrible.

5982. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:22:14 PM

RUM and PEPPERMINT SCHNAPPS?

You know, it's a good thing I'm out of my first trimester.

5983. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:22:37 PM

Diva

Once you bear your young one I'll drive out. I want to watch you do a shot of 151. The first time's always fun to watch.

Thoughtful -- Yee-up. There was a sadistic drink I had once called, alternately, a Forest Fire or a Burnt Liver. It was 151 and Tabasco, and I'm extremely sure it was only around because fraternities enjoyed making their pledges drink them.

5984. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:23:49 PM

Diva:

You never, ever wanted to drink one of our Kamikazes. No telling what you'd get.

5985. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:24:05 PM

Angel my darling, my shooter days are over. I done had enough.

5986. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:24:41 PM

Anyone for armadillo? Here's two bean Texas Armadillo:

3 tb Butter
2 lg Onions, chopped
4 Garlic cloves, chopped
2 lb Ground armadillo
2 1/2 tb Chili powder
1 tb Ground cumin
1/2 ts Cayenne pepper
1 28-ounce can crushed tomatoes
1 14 1/2-ounce can beef broth
2 md White potatoes, peeled, diced
2 lg Carrots, peeled, diced
1 Bell pepper, diced
3/4 c Chili sauce
1 15 1/4-ounce can kidney beans, drained
1 15-ounce can pinto beans, drained

Melt butter in heavy large saucepan or Dutch oven over medium heat. Add
onions and garlic and saute until almost golden, about 8 minutes. Add
armadillo and cook until brown, breaking meat up with fork, about 10
minutes. Stir in chili powder, cumin and cayenne and continue cooking 3
minutes. Mix in tomatoes, broth, potatoes, carrots, bell pepper and chili
sauce. Simmer until vegetables are tender, about 1 hour. Stir in beans.
Simmer until beans are heated through and vegetables are very tender, about
30 minutes.

5987. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:24:56 PM

Kamikazes are simple, vodka, triple sec, lime...what's to screw up?

5988. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:25:48 PM

The recipe for mu-shu armadillo was just to multicultural for my tastes.

5989. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:27:53 PM

I remember 151 being popular. I guess if I ever had any I would remember it.
Angel, did y'all ever make PGA punch in the bathtub? That was all the rage at parties when I was young. Kind of a nasty thought considering some of the ratty old houses we partied in. I guess the alcohol killed any germs.

5990. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:27:58 PM

you know, it'd be okay if not for the armadillo.

5991. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:28:56 PM

what's PGA punch?

5992. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:30:45 PM

all this armadillo and possum talk, but one animal that I wish was native to our area as it's so color coordinated is the great horny toad (that and Yosemite Sam always exclaimed it.)

5993. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:31:07 PM

Thoughtful: hahahaha

Deev:

You're happier not knowing what we'd get up to. But I can safely say that we never made a Kamikaze with just three ingredients. We even tried making Kamikaze, ah, herbal infusions.

5994. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:31:37 PM

Pure Grain Alcohol, and I guess red koolaid, fill with water and sugar up to the tub ring. I never made any myself.

5995. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:32:23 PM

I love horny toads! I haven't seen one since I was a kid in Texas!

5996. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:32:38 PM

Good Lord.

So what's all this talk about being in DC come January?

5997. thoughtful - 10/12/2000 9:32:40 PM

G'night all.

5998. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:33:19 PM

Arky: Not sure. If it's the same as a Hairy Buffalo party, yeah, we were guilty of that.

5999. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:33:20 PM

Hello! These numbers are getting interesting!

6000. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:33:34 PM

Ha!

6001. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:33:47 PM

This stuff just never went on at my school. Maybe I hung out with a tame crowd. I never heard of that either.

6002. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:34:11 PM

Good night, thoughtful, sweet dreams!

6003. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:34:21 PM

Yea me!

I wouldn't know, since I've never heard of a Hairy Buffalo party.

6004. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:34:33 PM

Hairy Buffalo?

6005. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:34:58 PM

urk, a millenial! Cool, arky!

6006. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:35:39 PM

Nite, Thoughtful! This was college for me. I didn't drink in high school, but I had some friends who were getting a jump start on alcoholism back then. One at least, unfortunately, is still at it.

6007. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:36:42 PM

oh, gosh, in high school, only the Really Bad Girls drank.

6008. theDiva - 10/12/2000 9:40:20 PM

Mutts lead the Cards 3-1 in the 3rd. Geeeeeeez....

time for me to do tomorrow's ironing. See youse in the morning.

6009. arkymalarky - 10/12/2000 9:42:09 PM

Nite Diva.

6010. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:43:30 PM

Diva: Not firm yet. I may be working either on the Hill or in the Beltway this spring, it depends on a lot of stuff. We do some placement training with other groups in the environmental lobby, and it's a good way to make connections and impress people.

6011. angel-five - 10/12/2000 9:45:07 PM

Nite, oh sheltered one.

6012. theDiva - 10/13/2000 8:01:27 AM

urk, angel in DC. I tellya, my virtue ain't safe.

6013. bubbaette - 10/13/2000 8:21:12 AM

aint nobody safe.

6014. theDiva - 10/13/2000 8:23:22 AM

he will cut quite the swath through those Dress Barn-clad interns and first-year staffers.

6015. bubbaette - 10/13/2000 8:25:27 AM

No doubt. I'm thinking the whole SMSA should have advance warning so as to prepare.

6016. theDiva - 10/13/2000 8:35:02 AM

ha!

6017. angel-five - 10/13/2000 11:06:34 AM

SMSA?

6018. bubbaette - 10/13/2000 11:08:33 AM

Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area

6019. angel-five - 10/13/2000 11:09:58 AM

What do Washington people wear, anyway?

6020. angel-five - 10/13/2000 11:11:17 AM

I mean, it's all academic, me asking. I'm wearing nothing but white until the cherry blossoms come out, you understand.

6021. bubbaette - 10/13/2000 11:13:08 AM

Washington is a conservative town, relatively speaking. People wear suits and the like.

6022. theDiva - 10/13/2000 11:13:50 AM

Not white, I can tell you that. This is a very conservative town, dress-wise, though it's been loosening up since the infusion of high-tech cash and influence into the mix.

6023. glendajean - 10/13/2000 11:15:24 AM

Expensive suits (business lobbyists, Members of Congress, bankers and owners of professional football teams)

Worn out tweed jackets, khakis, tennis shoes (lobbyists for non-profits, reporters for weekly tabloids, perennial demonstrators)

Baggy clothes (college students, high school students, old men who feed pidgeons in the parks)

Average citizens (nothing that would confine them in honking their horn, shooting the finger and cursing like sailors, all at the same time).

6024. theDiva - 10/13/2000 11:16:53 AM

hahahahahahaha

6025. bubbaette - 10/13/2000 11:47:20 AM

My tulip bulbs came in this week -- 100 of em, and right in time. I've been wanting to put in some pansies and winter cabbage, but not til after I planted the bulbs. Looks like I've got my weekend planned.

6026. Ronski - 10/13/2000 12:19:15 PM

A Normal Winter?

6027. JayAckroyd - 10/13/2000 1:34:52 PM

151

I once saw a guy freebase alcohol using 151. He used a short, broad glass (4 ounce Mason Jar), poured in a couple of ounces, and put his hand over the rim. Then he lit a match and snuck it in between his hand the glass. Some vaporized alcohol rushed out, creating suction between his hand and the glass, sealing the remainder of the vapor in.

Then he inhaled it.

It made me change one of my standard dope should be legal arguments from "Nobody freebases alcohol." to "Have you ever seen anyone freebase alcohol?"

6028. angel-five - 10/13/2000 1:37:15 PM

Good grief.

6029. JayAckroyd - 10/13/2000 1:38:35 PM

But I really came by because I want to something that I thought would be simple. Buy a chair.

I've got a 30s era wooden rocker, with an upholstered seat, wide arms, probably cherry. I want to get another chair that will decent in the same room as this chair. In the best of all possible worlds, it would look like it. So I've gone to stores. Nada. I've looked on ebay, and can't get myself to bid on a picture, even there was something I liked, which there wasn't. IME, antique stores are a very time-consuming endeavor that invariably keeps from buyting because I am sure I'll be ripped off because of my ignorance.

Suggestions?

6030. theDiva - 10/13/2000 1:40:10 PM

Mother of God.

And just who you callin' sheltered, Mr. AngelFive-CornFed-From-Ohio?

I'll have you know I racked up some rather impressive numbers in the dissolute living department, just not during the years when I needed my brain cells the most. Hrmph!

6031. theDiva - 10/13/2000 1:40:25 PM

of course I am now the model of purity.

6032. angel-five - 10/13/2000 1:42:36 PM

I'm beginning to realize that there really are two Divas.

6033. theDiva - 10/13/2000 1:44:05 PM

when will you learn?

6034. angel-five - 10/13/2000 1:49:30 PM

Three, maybe. One of them wields an apron and a warm smile. The second wields a peacock feather and a bottle of champagne. The last, who just showed up in Message # 6033, wields a ruler.

6035. theDiva - 10/13/2000 1:51:09 PM

Numbers one and two always have the ruler at the ready.

6036. angel-five - 10/13/2000 1:55:27 PM

Diva Dearest, who turns into Mother Superior Raging Tornado of Death should you cross the line, but who will also consent to show you her tattoo just in case you start imagining she's never done anything but bake cookies all her life.

6037. theDiva - 10/13/2000 1:57:52 PM

hahahahahahahaha

6038. theDiva - 10/13/2000 2:01:57 PM

I don't really have an ACTUAL tattoo.

6039. angel-five - 10/13/2000 2:26:02 PM

Prove it.

6040. theDiva - 10/13/2000 2:29:32 PM

no

6041. angel-five - 10/13/2000 2:31:04 PM

That's what I thought. 'No tattoo' indeed.

6042. theDiva - 10/13/2000 2:32:08 PM

Look, don't think that you can dare me into giving you some kind of cheap thrill.

6043. angel-five - 10/13/2000 2:35:21 PM

Cheap? Judging by the number of prerelease tickets I've sold, no, not cheap.

6044. theDiva - 10/13/2000 2:40:02 PM

incorrigible.

6045. angel-five - 10/13/2000 2:40:42 PM

Vincennes is applying his fledgling sense of economics and is in fact subsidizing my ticket sales with a substantial portion of his annual salary.

6046. Jonesatlaw - 10/13/2000 2:41:31 PM

My Daddy warned me about women with tattoos. The saying in the Navy was never date a woman with more of 'em than you've got.

6047. theDiva - 10/13/2000 2:42:19 PM

I do not have a tattoo.

6048. angel-five - 10/13/2000 2:44:50 PM

I'm guessing it's either one of those demure kind of Catholic Girl tattoos, like on the calf or the middle tum, but it's entirely possible it's one of those huge winged things that occupies the entire surface of the small of her back.

6049. theDiva - 10/13/2000 2:53:18 PM

If I were to get a tattoo, which I never would, it would be something small and discreet and visible only to, well, my husband. Maybe a Yankees logo on my right hip.

6050. angel-five - 10/13/2000 2:57:41 PM

Well, my tattoo is likewise discreet and only in a place where someone's going to discover it if they know me rather well. It's of The Diva.

I get in no end of trouble about that. I don't understand why. Gawd. I'm just a boy.

6051. theDiva - 10/13/2000 3:00:26 PM

heehee

6052. Jonesatlaw - 10/13/2000 3:54:36 PM

I've often wondered about those tummy tattoos on young gals. What are they going to look like when they're preggers?

The demure butterfly becomes Mothra? I remember old guys with hula skirted women on their arms who smoked Luckies and worked construction. In Manila in '45 they were burly young guys, but after a lifetime in the sun, and shifting to supervison instead of labor, Miss Hula had started to sag. Art immitating life I guess.

6053. arkymalarky - 10/13/2000 7:03:35 PM

I am just going to give up. Now tell me what in the sam hill is wrong with the Dress Barn? Besides the name, which is admittedly tacky.

Downside of living in the country--idiots who don't bother to go even far enough up the road to not be visible from your house and have a big loud party on your property, leaving plenty of trash the next day. Bob didn't confront them last night, not being prepared or knowing what he would be confronting, but if they come back I'm afraid there may be a war.

6054. theDiva - 10/13/2000 9:18:25 PM

arky

nothing; there's a hierarchy of attire in this area, based largely on economic situations. Interns and 1st year staffers shop at Dress Barn; next rung up the ladder, Ann Taylor; then Nordstrom; then Rizik's.

6055. arkymalarky - 10/13/2000 9:26:04 PM

Hmm. I've gotten a Nordstrom's catalogue or two in the mail, and I've never heard of Rizik's, so I guess I know what rung I'm on--which is just where an Arky teacher should be I suppose. Is JC Penney's above or below Dress Barn?

Seriously, there was a Dress Barn in the outlet mall in Hot Springs that I went to this summer before I went to my new job and I did find some nice looking dresses pretty cheap. I mostly shop out of Clifford & Wills sales catalogues, but I'm naturally a dress-down person anyway unless I'm going some place really special. If I had my way it would be jeans/shorts, sweats/tees, and flops/clodhoppers or old tennis shoes for every occasion.

Here everyone goes to Dillards for the nice stuff, and I like to catch their 75% off sales when I can. I bragged the girls last spring as they were dress-shopping about my $12 prom dress, which would have looked elegant enough if I weighed the same when I wore it as I did when I bought it.

6056. theDiva - 10/13/2000 9:31:00 PM

Mainly that's the hierarchy of dress among DC (read: feds and lobbyists) professional women. Rizik's is this extremely fancy upscale dress shop.

And as far as where local gubment workers fall on that scale....the outlet mall, honey, the outlet mall.

6057. arkymalarky - 10/13/2000 9:41:39 PM

Hahaha. I guess I'm a gubmit worker of sorts, since I'm paid through taxes.

6058. theDiva - 10/13/2000 9:52:03 PM

Egads, that's right! Lordy, there are quite a few of us around here.

Dang, the Mariners just scored. I better go.

6059. marshame - 10/14/2000 8:25:03 PM

So what are people making for dinner tonight? I need some inspiration.

6060. thoughtful - 10/14/2000 9:37:49 PM

marshame, don't know if you're still around but hubby bought some skirt steaks to broil and I'm gonna do chicken in the crockpot tomorrow...that way dinner will be done when I come home. The weather here tomorrow is supposed to be A-1 and we are going to hike to the top of talcott mountain where there's a tower on top to look at the fall foliage. Won't feel much like cooking when I get home.

6061. arkymalarky - 10/14/2000 10:13:37 PM

Catfish dinner from the gas station up the road.

6062. Ronski - 10/16/2000 11:59:58 AM

We are at peak fall color where I live. Yesterday, which was mostly sunny and warm, with a slight breeze and a few sketchy white clouds, I walked over to the local ski area and starting dreaming.

All in all, a wonderful time of the year.

6063. PelleNilsson - 10/16/2000 12:17:37 PM

Here the colours are getting pale and the leaves have been falling for some time. A bout of high winds and they will be gone.

6064. theDiva - 10/16/2000 12:19:19 PM

what's for lunch?

Rotini with a tomato sauce spiked with mushrooms, black olives, garlic, onions, and hot red pepper. mmmmmmMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm!

6065. Ronski - 10/16/2000 12:29:53 PM

Yummy, indeed.

6066. JudithAtHome - 10/16/2000 12:48:44 PM

Some of our leaves have turned lemon yellow...I think the drought will preclude any spectacular color spectrum in our trees this year, though. We get no glorious Eastern-style color show, anyhow, but some years are pretty good, for where we are....

6067. glendajean - 10/16/2000 12:58:11 PM

Our trees are only starting to peak, including a big maple in our back yard. This morning was slightly foggy, and I enjoyed walking the dog with all the colors ablaze to entertain us. Enough leaves were falling to sound like a gentle rain.

6068. Ronski - 10/16/2000 1:02:27 PM

A Norway Maple? (It turns yellow.)

A Sugar Maple? (It turns orange.)

A Silver Maple? (It turns yellow or orange, depending on sun and soil conditions, but usually the former.)

A Red Maple? (It turns red, appropriately, and those are the first in the species to show color.)

6069. theDiva - 10/16/2000 1:07:06 PM

Plenty of green around here, still, but there is the occasional soon-to-be scarlet or yellow tree. We passed one this morning that had completely turned -I have no idea what kind of tree it was, but the leaves were a brilliant orange-red.

6070. Thoughtful - 10/16/2000 2:29:12 PM

Ronski, I learn so much from you....I always thought the sugar maple turned yellow. We have a maple in our back yard that I transplanted from home -- a baby from the huge tree we had in our yard with my swing attached to the limb. It is the last in the season to turn and it turns a lovely lemon yellow. Other distinguishing feature is its leaves are significantly larger than the other maples...is that a Norway maple?

The maple in the back of our yard has medium sized leaves and will turn a combo of yellow and orange to almost a salmon color...is that a sugar maple?

What about bark? The one in the back has a fairly smooth bark -- will that help distinguish it from a sugar maple?
Thanks!

6071. mgleason - 10/16/2000 7:08:08 PM

I'm baking sausage bread for a (late) dinner.

6072. SnowOwl - 10/16/2000 7:18:28 PM

I was intending to do your red beans, but as I have neither ham nor sherry in the house and I can't be bothered going to the shops, it will have to wait for another day.

Instead we'll have some sort of casserole. It's still cold enough here to be eating heavy winter food. Damn, I'm longing for salads and decent tomatoes. The only tomatoes available at the moment at a reasonable price are imported and taste like cardboard.

6073. DanDillon - 10/16/2000 9:52:56 PM

O Spritely One,

Sausage bread? Sounds sinfully good. Recipe?

6074. mgleason - 10/16/2000 10:06:35 PM

Sure, DanDLion. I obtained it from Salon's TableTalk, and used Williams-Sonoma's Parmesan and Tomato Basil Bread Mix. It is PHENOMENAL! (Look in Recipes.)

I hope you make the frijoles soon, Snow. I think you'll like 'em.