The Good Life

pt. 2

anti Martha:
doesn't know radicchio from arugula and doesn't care to
thinks naming your house is dumb, especially a name like turkey hill
thinks A&P ice cream is fine
thinks grilling is something the cops do to perps

5011. bubbaette - 7/24/2000 3:37:01 PM

All excellent, Thoughtful.

5012. Thoughtful - 7/24/2000 3:44:36 PM

Bbbtt -- not as good as your glue gun shot!

Also, the anti-Martha actually pays for the gifts she gives, unlike the real martha who uses them as props on her show first....like the "how to make a nice fruit basket" which she then gave to her nephew as a gift.

5013. Ronski - 7/24/2000 3:47:13 PM

I always thought the sobriquet, the dominatrix of domesticity, fit Martha beautifully.

5014. thoughtful - 7/24/2000 9:41:41 PM

Here's a web site which has a drawing and both calls of the Phoebe and the Peewee: Songs & calls of some NY state birds

5015. Ronski - 7/25/2000 11:22:41 AM

Thoughtful,

Thanks for the link.

5016. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 1:21:33 PM

Places to go for decorative tchotchkes....TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Home Goods, Kirklands. You can spend a lot on this stuff because it takes a lot of stuff to fully decorate a room, but at least these places will help you out until you can replace the junk with quality...and you don't mind if some of it breaks or gets damaged in the mean time as it's all junk...but it can look terrific.

5017. theDiva - 7/25/2000 1:25:20 PM

Pier One and Ikea are good for that, too. Interesting, inexpensive, cool stuff.

5018. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:00:09 PM

Diva, don't have an ikea close by so haven't explored their realm yet. Pier one does have some neat stuff, but even though imported goods prices have dropped like crazy, I haven't found that to be true at pier 1. They were originally a very cheap import store and then pushed prices up as the $ weakened. They developed a cache and are now still more expensive than some of the other places. Of course, if they've got what you want, go for it.

I should also mention Tuesday Morning which is a most bizarre store in that they are only open certain times of the year. But they do get an incredible selection of stuff at good prices. Lots of xmas stuff in nov-dec too.

5019. DocBrown - 7/25/2000 4:10:08 PM

My wife, Porsche, swears by Tuesday Morning for wedding presents.

5020. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:10:31 PM

oh, yeah, there's a Tuesday Morning right here in Diva City, but oddly enough, I've never been. And I love a good bargain. Eventually I'll get there.

I haven't found Pier One to be all that pricey - well, except for their furniture. Gracie and I always do our Christmas shopping there, both for ornaments and for teacher/friend gifts. And they always have really neat little staples for the house for very low prices. Last week I got this beautiful triangular green glass bottle with a sun blown in the sides, and a cork in the top, for three bucks. I put dish soap in it. They also have these really nice heavy white accessory pieces from China - things like butter dishes and ramekins and spoon rests - for a few bucks each.

Ikea has similar stuff, plus really good Swedish meatballs in their cafeteria. Bet they're not all that authentic, but they're the right price for a decent lunch.

5021. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 4:14:22 PM

They are supposed to be authentic. Are there lingonberries?

5022. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:24:51 PM

oh, yes. Delicious. And nice, little red boiled potatoes.

I'm making me hungry.

5023. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 4:26:16 PM

So, they are authentic.

5024. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:28:22 PM

No kidding! How about that.

5025. Ronski - 7/25/2000 4:37:31 PM

Pelle,

I make authentic Swedish meatballs and insist that they be flavored with allspice, in addition to being served with lingonberries.

Our cranberries are related to lingonberries, you know.

Ikea also has, usually, cookies made with cardamon (as well as ginger snaps), and jars of cloudberry preserves.

Cloudberries resemble golden raspberries, my fellow Americans.

5026. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:39:49 PM

Diva, you have to understand that I am extraordinarily cheap -- I buy my hubby suits at the goodwill and complain if they're over $35!

5027. JudithAtHome - 7/25/2000 4:40:50 PM

Tonight we're going to dinner at the golf club near our home...it is a huge sandstone castle built in the late 20s, outrageous looking. I've only formerly dined on the terrace so being inside will be a treat. I'm more excited about where we're eating than what...

5028. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:41:11 PM

Economists.

5029. glendajean - 7/25/2000 4:42:49 PM

Judith -- this isn't the same Fort Worth club where the millionaire supposedly shot his wife's lover and got off scott free?

5030. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:45:00 PM

Div, don't know if it's because I'm an economist or Polish...though of course those are not necessarily independent events.

Judithah, sometimes it's fun to eat at the place because of the place...like the haunted old victorian we ate at one night. The food was bland but the home was decorated beautifully and ghost stories abounded...they even had a strolling magician performing table-side tricks.

Then there was that crazy revolving restaurant at the top of Oahu -- the food was ok, but the view absolutely incredible.

5031. JudithAtHome - 7/25/2000 4:47:23 PM

GJ:

Do you mean Cullen Davis?

I'd seriously doubt this was the place; it has belonged to the Air Force since the 1940s. A few years ago, the AF base closed and this golf club was turned over to our little village. We've been offered tons of money for it but are keeping it because the property is so valuable...

5032. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:47:34 PM

In the winter, hubby likes to complain loudly about the CPB --
Cheap Pollack Bitch -- who's the landlord and won't turn up the heat! (You see, I'm responsible for paying the oil bill.) My usual response in my best Polish accent is, "Dees not cold. In Varshava, dat was cold. Dees is nice, like summer." or "If you're cold, put on a sweater!"

5033. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 4:47:45 PM

Ronski

Why do you make authentic Swedish meatballs? Have I missed something?

5034. JudithAtHome - 7/25/2000 4:49:12 PM

Thoughtful:

In Germany, we used to eat in this cave all the time...it had suits of armor and live bats flitting in and out...the food was fantastic, though.

5035. theDiva - 7/25/2000 4:51:10 PM

oh, we ate in that restaurant in Oahu! It was so neat.

5036. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:56:00 PM

A cave? Wow! I've never eaten at one of those medieval joints either where you're supposed to call the waitress "wench" and stuff -- though it sounds like it could be fun... In FL we ate at the bomber squadron which was cool. At the edge of PBI airport, the building is like a damaged french cottage and inside is all sorts of WWII memorabilia and 40s music playing. They even had a fire in the fireplace! It was fun.

5037. Thoughtful - 7/25/2000 4:58:24 PM

Diva--the only bizarre thing was trying to figure out how you get out of the restaurant as where you came in is in a different location by the time you leave. It was neat though. My favorite place in HI was the (at the time a Sheraton) Princeville hotel which is 11 stories built into the side of a cliff overlook Hanalei bay. Beautiful!

5038. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 5:02:16 PM

Thoughtful

About Poles and cloudberries. We were used to seeing those small cars, the Polish version of Fiat, with four or five guys in them going through here on their way to the north to make some money picking cloudberries. They would live in tents and spend a minimum on food. In two weeks they could make the equivalent of 3-4 months salary in Poland, or so it was said. But with rising living standards in Poland there is much less of that now and their role is taken over by Russians.

5039. Ronski - 7/25/2000 5:07:47 PM

Pelle,

There was a passing reference to authenticity in Swedish meatballs at the Ikea stores. My point was that lingonberries on the side alone do not make for authenticity, but a certain spiciness brought on by the addition of allspice. Mind you, all such recipes vary widely from chef to chef, I'm sure, even in Sweden.

Do you have any opinion on the allspice issue?

5040. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 5:16:57 PM

Ronski

Personally I don't use allspice because my mother didn't. But I wouldn't condemn it as non-authentic. Garlic, chilies and such is another thing altogether.

My question was really a roundabout way of asking if you have Swedish or Scandinavian roots.

5041. Ronski - 7/25/2000 5:19:38 PM

Pelle,

No, I don't actually, but I have always felt a kinship for Scandinavia, for reasons I cannot quite explain.

And my partner (my beloved) is one-quarter Danish, descended from immigrants who settled in a Danish colony in Kansas.

5042. PelleNilsson - 7/25/2000 5:27:00 PM

Perhaps it is your love of nature. It is a very Scandinivian trait (except for the Danes who rather drink beer and smoke cigars).

5043. prolph - 7/26/2000 4:12:49 AM

i missed the diss Martha fest; it was mean but funny. Somrwhat apt though since I only recently finished having my interior painted and installing blinds to match. The horrible refurbishing came with bew carpet. Never recarpet a house you are living in. It is far worse than moving. Thereare still boxes in the garage to be restored to their rightful places. I moved to Escondido in 1987. T he carpet wasn't in great shape then. But everytime I thouht of replacing it I'd think"for that kind of money I could take a trip". Last year when I returned from the BLack sea and eclipse viewing I looked at the carpet and decided that for the price of a trip I could recarpet. Besides. there is no trip planned until June of 01 which will be the first total splar eclipse of the third milleneum.

5044. Thoughtful - 7/26/2000 10:21:30 AM

prolph, don't get me wrong.... I spend a lot of time decorating my house and love doing crafts and such....it's just Martha who's my favorite person to hate....probably because of her false front and her superior attitude, and her genuine lack of humor, and her incredible cheapness despite her extraordinary wealth.....

5045. theDiva - 7/26/2000 10:29:54 AM

Thoughtful

I remember it being weird getting out! And my favorite place on that trip was the Turtle Bay Hilton. God, it was gorgeous. I'm going back someday.

5046. Thoughtful - 7/26/2000 10:43:56 AM

I've always wanted to go back too. We were on a tour and though we had a lot of free time, it wasn't in the places we wanted it -- for example we wanted to spend more time in the volcanoes nat'l park, and never got a chance to walk on a black sand beach. Lanai was just plantations when we were there and I understand that's quite nice now too...if only it were closer to home. The flight was not fun.

5047. theDiva - 7/26/2000 10:52:41 AM

Our flight was awful, especially the one going home. (I went into premature labor the very next day.)

But the visit itself was nice. We were attending a company shindig and so my husband had to work part of the time, which gave me free time to sit by the pool or on the beach, shop, etc. They had lovely activities planned for us - catamaran ride around the bay with live band and cocktails(though I was seasick the entire time, it was very pretty), evening luau at the TB Hilton, barbecue on the beach at the estate where they shot 'Magnum, P.I.', some screenings, that sort of thing. Plus they built in free time for us as couples so we were able to explore. We rented a car and drove up the coast, stopping for lunch and such. It was wonderful.

5048. Thoughtful - 7/26/2000 11:32:20 AM

Hawaii is truly paradise.

Premature labor? Yuck. As I recall, hubby contracted intestinal flu -- as did a number of others on the tour just before we left. In fact he was in the can tossing his cookies during takeoff, then proceeded to sleep the rest of the way home. Not fun.

I don't remember where we had our luau -- it may have been on the big island, but I remember that we sat next to Beau Bridges and family...I knew who he was (though he didn't seem to know me!) and fortunately hubby didn't recognize him or I'm sure he would've said something. Rather we all just enjoyed ourselves like anyone you'd meet at a luau. It was cool, though the poi was yucky...not like real poi which has a consistency more like cream of wheat cereal.

Definitely on my list of for a someday return.

5049. bubbaette - 7/26/2000 11:34:18 AM

DH and I are planning a Hawaiian vacation after Ms. Vole finishes college.

5050. Thoughtful - 7/26/2000 11:47:58 AM

bbbtt, definitely a good idea. We went with Tauck tours. In fact we've taken several with them and have thoroughly enjoyed them. They're expensive, but for what you get, it's really worth every penny. The tour I linked to is the closest they have now to what we did then ... we did 5 islands including Molokai, which they've obviously deleted. But however you get there, just do it. It's great.

5051. Thoughtful - 7/27/2000 10:48:58 AM

I have our first red tomato sitting on my window sill -- I think tonight we will dig in. Can't wait!

I made one of my favorite veggie dishes the other night with fresh veggies from my dad: little olive oil in the pan with onion, garlic and green pepper. Saute until onions are translucent. Add mushrooms and yellow squash and zucchini. Saute some more. Then add tomaotes --I had to use canned as we don't have enough fresh yet, but hopefully soon. Salt & pepper to taste. Saute until as tender as you like. Top with a handful of fresh herbs (basil, parsley, whatever). Serve hot as a side dish or over pasta or rice...if you want more protein add some mozz. cheese to melt before serving - but be prepared to deal with the pan afterward! Or sprinkle with parmesan. Lots of ways to play with this recipe (sometimes I sprinkle in hot pepper flakes) but it always comes out good.

5052. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2000 3:08:19 PM

We are going to Hawaii in November but the places we stay are rather different...with family! Bad news, though...my sister is moving from Maui to California so we will be dropping one leg off our journey. We'll be on Oahu and on the Big Island. Kona for a few days and Hilo for a few days and then to Honolulu for a few....we've been so often that we've done all the touristy things so mainly we just visit family and friends.

5053. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 4:22:17 PM

Help me, pet-owners:
A scrawny, black stray kitten wandered into our yard last night and Bob and Mose declared they wanted to keep her. I'm allergic, so it will have to be an outdoor cat. Mose's doxie is over a year old and does not seem inclined to leave the cat alone. She tries to bite it if she's allowed anywhere close. Our Dumb Dora Lab has had cat-pals in the past and she seemed amenable to adding this kitten to the family and approached slowly, docilely, with tail wagging, until she got close enough to put almost the whole cat in her mouth. It kind of reminded me of a Sylvester and Tweety episode. After our reaction, though, the lab has left the cat alone, but Diva can't be trusted. I'm afraid she'd kill it before we could stop her, it's such a tiny thing--ugly as homemade soap, too.

Any tips for getting Diva used to the cat, or is it a lost cause?

5054. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2000 4:33:45 PM

No help from me....Klaus hates all other 4 legged creatures.

5055. Ronski - 7/27/2000 4:41:36 PM

If you pet the kitten and make nice in front of the dog while at the same time being very affectionate to the dog, perhaps she will understand that the kitten is more or less part of the family.

I've heard its unwise to try to keep them apart all the time. That creates animosity.

I don't know, it's a hard one, especially if the cat will have to stay outside.

5056. theDiva - 7/27/2000 4:47:49 PM

Hey! I LOVE cats!

5057. Thoughtful - 7/27/2000 4:54:18 PM

Aren't doxies ratters? Diva may think it's just a rat and may instinctively want to destroy it -- at least until it gets bigger. The only thing I know to do is spells of supervised visitation where you don't allow Diva to annoy the kitten at all, but get used to its presence. And as Ronski suggest, you need to assure Diva that the kitten is not a usurper of affection. "Sibling" rivalry among pets can be strong. Supervision will probably be needed for quite awhile.

5058. theDiva - 7/27/2000 4:55:49 PM

this is all very disconcerting.

5059. CalGal - 7/27/2000 5:23:40 PM

Diva,

Now you know how I felt when Bubba described CalGal as short, chubby, and barrelchested.

5060. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 5:24:42 PM

"Hey! I LOVE cats!"

Yeah, like Sylvester loves Tweetybirds! (g)

We're trying the pet them both, putting them fairly close together but with us holding them, approach. Diva does seem to see the cat as prey, and it's not much bigger than a rat. The problem is that Diva goes in and out as she wants to and we have no pens, so the cat and Diva will have to share some outside time with no supervision pretty quickly, and bunches of it when we go back to work in a couple of weeks.

Anybody want a scrawny black kitten or a spoiled little doxie? (kidding--I'm not ready for Bob and Mose to disown me yet--I may be in another few days, though)

5061. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 5:25:36 PM

Bubba's first posts on CalGal had me more than a little confused.

5062. glendajean - 7/27/2000 6:23:52 PM

Arky,

Is the Doxie neutered? Maybe as the testestorone diminishes, he'll calm down.

Does the cat have claws? As soon as the cat is big enough, he/she should be able to teach the dog about cats, claws and long snouted noses vulnerable to same.

I have a 7 month male Scotty, and he has never hurt my cats. He just likes to chase them (which scares them), and play with them like they're fellow puppies. Somedays are better than others.

The only thing I would really worry about is if the dogs, as a pack, when nobody else is around, turn on the poor cat. I've heard that happen, but it is usally with stranger dogs, rather than the household pack.

5063. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 8:32:47 PM

GJ,
Diva's a she and she is spayed, but it would have been a lot easier had she been exposed to cats as a puppy. My little Chilidog would never have adjusted to a cat, I don't think, but I hope, even if we don't keep the cat, that Diva will learn to coexist. The cat does have claws, but hasn't applied them yet, though I've let her close enough. That's how our other cat trained our dumb lab (whom I'd given up as untrainable) when the dog was about 7 mos old and the cat was a kitten. One fast swoop at the first sniff brought blood right by Sasha's eye and by the time the cat died, the two were best buds.

5064. thoughtful - 7/27/2000 9:13:39 PM

Of course, if the kitty is really little, I wouldn't let him outside on his own anyway. We kept Cas locked up in the bathroom with toys and kitty box and stuff until he was large enough to be trusted not to damage too much. The bath is all tile so fairly indestructible. Gradually we'd open a few more doors to him as we got to trust his being alone in the house more until finally he had free rein of the house. Then we introduced him to outdoors very gradually...at first under supervision and then with increase alone time. We waited until he was large enough, good enough claws and a demonstrated familiarity with tree climbing. After that, we figured he'd have a fair chance.

I worry about dogs who instinctively attack other animals. I saw a kitten killed almost instantaneously by a dog which charged it, grabbed it in its mouth, broke its back and tossed it into the air....like it was a rag doll.

5065. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 9:33:16 PM

I'm beginning to think we either need to get rid of him, which shouldn't be hard--I know a number of cat-lovers, or get him set up to be inside for quite a while.

Thanks for the good advice, all. We've had lots of stray dogs wander up out here, but rarely a stray cat, so our dogs just weren't prepared and neither were we. This kitty appeared in the middle of the night last night, and I was kind of amazed that Bob wanted to keep her.

5066. thoughtful - 7/27/2000 9:34:12 PM

Here's a page of advice on introducing a new pet into your home.

5067. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 9:43:39 PM

Cool, Thoughtful! Thanks!

5068. prolph - 7/28/2000 5:48:23 PM

Avian note: My son and I were entering a local shopping center behind which flows Escondid creek.
Son said hey look and there was a lovely crane. Apperently the erane was going to the Sports Authority. We were going to Staples.

5069. Thoughtful - 7/28/2000 5:50:51 PM

patsy -- so nice to have you back -- I hope you can visit more often!

5070. prolph - 7/28/2000 7:08:00 PM

Thanks thoughtful.My new computer is up but I have a learning curve to deal with. I can read it much much better than this--my webtv. i don't habe

5071. prolph - 7/28/2000 7:08:07 PM

Thanks thoughtful.My new computer is up but I have a learning curve to deal with. I can read it much much better than this--my webtv. i don't habe

5072. prolph - 7/28/2000 7:13:29 PM

Thanks thoughtful.My new computer is up but I have a learning curve to deal with. I can read it much much better than this--my webtv.

5073. Don S. - 7/28/2000 7:20:27 PM

Patsy! You should've warned that crane. Sports Authority is notoriously overpriced.

Have you investigated ViaVoice or similar products? ViaVoice supposedly lets you speak into a microphone and types out the words for you.

And on the Mac, you can highlight some text and have the system speak it to you.

Um, what sort of computer did you end up with?

5074. prolph - 7/29/2000 5:27:57 PM

Don, not yet on voice stuff. Geez I seem to have fouled up pretty good right here. On the other hand, the new keyboard is easier to see and use.
We had a computer built at nearby pc club and a NEC monitor--which i found easy tp read."We" of coutse is actually wizard son but I did choose a cute little wokstation all by myself. Hey, could you send mr the url for the Mote?

5075. PelleNilsson - 7/30/2000 9:21:28 AM

A common traffic sign on Swedish roads:

5076. theDiva - 7/31/2000 9:50:59 AM

cut me off a hunka moose......

5077. glendajean - 7/31/2000 10:23:11 AM

Ouch.

5078. Thoughtful - 7/31/2000 5:13:39 PM

Pelle,
I assume that sign means, "Stop for Moose in Crosswalk."

}:-)

5079. PelleNilsson - 8/1/2000 12:31:28 AM

It's not far off. Moose are creature of habit and this sign is put up where they usually cross the road. I don't have any figure on how many accidents involving moose there are but they are many.

5082. JudithAtHome - 8/1/2000 12:16:08 PM

When we lived in Maine, I saw a huge moose cross the road right in front of my car...trust me, he was huge and took his time and if he'd been of a mind to, could've flattened my car in a second. I was horrified and impressed...

5083. Ronski - 8/1/2000 12:23:32 PM

Moose crossing signs are common in Vermont. Moose are fairly common, as well.

5084. Thoughtful - 8/1/2000 1:06:17 PM

Is Mice the plural of Moose?

5085. Wombat - 8/1/2000 1:25:14 PM

Meese

5086. christipeters - 8/1/2000 1:35:45 PM

The first time my Dad went moose hunting, the group he was with reached their last day without seeing one (smart moose).

Then he spotted one - well sort-of. All he could see through the trees and brush were the antlers. So he sighted on them, swung over between them to where he estimated the head was and squeezed off a round. Result - one moose crashing away holding it's head a bit lopsided as one antler crashed to the ground. Dad brought the antler home and consoled me when I expressed pity for the poor lop-sided moose by telling me it would shed the other one soon.

When he and his buddies had their annual ice-fishing party, they presented him with a small plaque upon which resided a wooden carving of a moose head - minus one antler, with the inscription "Ugh! Pete shoot 'em up plenty good!"

5087. jonesatlaw - 8/2/2000 4:17:53 AM

Christi- great story! My father's moose story involves five young traveling salesmen, a 49' Hudson and an angry Mountie. In a contest between a rutting bull moose and a '49 Hudson, it's a draw with both contestants not surviving the combat. As for the salesman versus the Mountie, the Mountie wins. Every time.

5088. Ronski - 8/2/2000 10:42:38 AM

And '49 Hudsons were nothing to sneeze at when it came to sheer heft.

5089. christipeters - 8/2/2000 1:08:44 PM

jonesatlaw - That sounds like an interesting story! My Dad did eventually shoot a moose. He and the family decided we didn't like the way moose tastes, so he never shot another one. He didn't believe in hunting if you weren't going to eat what you killed. Having grown up on pheasant, partridge, quail, grouse, cottontail, Canada goose, duck (usually mallard, but sometimes wood duck or bufflehead), venison, bass, perch, and trout, I am now content with plain old beef, chicken, pork, or veggie-burgers, and salmon or tuna.

5090. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 1:16:21 PM

While in Maine, we had moose several times....the locals have ways of making you eat it.

5091. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 1:27:50 PM

Pelle:
Moose are creature of habit and this sign is put up where they usually cross the road.

Being a past,(lifelong), Mainer, (that's Main-ah to all flatlanders), moose are not so much creatures of habit... they are roamers who follow only what cover allows,
and where food is most plentiful. Those signs placed alongside roadways are there because the habitat on either side is conducive to moose preference of cover to travel through. Chances are good that the same moose will not be back through the same trail. They roam over 50-100 square miles, and unlike deer who stay relatively in the same area, have no real habitual crossings or trails.

Judith: You lived in Maine? Where about did you live? Once, when I was a boy, (about 9 yo), my dad, uncle and cousin were riding down an old tote-road heading back to camp in an old Willie's jeep, when we happened upon a female moose (cow), in the middle of the road. She had no intention of relenting until she was ready. However, she appeared skittish, and we assumed it was because of our presence. But shortly after, a large bull came out onto the road behind us...and we soon realized we were between him and his "date". To cut this story down somewhat, the bull attacked our poor jeep, having only fishing poles and a good buzz going we abandoned ship and watched for about 20 minutes as that old bull repeatedly charged, kicked, and stomped the jeep. By the time all was said and done, our jeep, was undriveable from the scene. 3 tires were blown, all the glass panes were broken, the hood, doors, and lights were smashed. It looked like we had hit a landmine or something similar. We just stood there in amazement at the ready to bolt if the need arised. We had to walk 8 miles back to camp and got a skidder to drag the jeep's carcass back to camp the next day.
He was plenty p-o'd at the jeep and left a lot of hair and some blood as a result.

5092. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 1:28:39 PM

judithah, that sounds ominous indeed -- are you suggesting we stay out of McDonald's in Maine? (I was surprised to see they had lobster rolls on the menu!)

christip, what's canada goose taste like? We are frequently overrun and often sorely tempted to have goose at xmas! But somehow, I think they'd taste like pondwater and be very fatty.

5093. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 1:32:13 PM

labw, what a story! You wouldn't think they'd confuse a jeep with a rival, but then again, no one ever said they were bright....I mean it's not like he couldn't have just walked around the darn thing. Wow! That musta been fun to explain to the insurance co.

5094. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 1:40:54 PM

Labwabbit:

We were at Loring AFB outside Limestone and Caribou. First time this Texas girl ever saw snow piled up to the second story window of a townhouse. I loved the cross-country skiing on the base golf course and all the travel we did while there: New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia....and we used to drive down to Bangor on Saturdays for a nice lunch at a good restaurant. Quite a round trip but you can understand, I'm sure.


Thoughtful:

No worries about McMoose burgers. I just meant they were adept at cooking it so you'd WANT to eat it. We enjoyed it on several occassions. Best was as sausage and teriyaki burger.

5095. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 1:50:16 PM

Thoughtful
That musta been fun to explain to the insurance co.

Wasn't insured...but it did make for interesting conversation when people stopped by over the years and asked what the hell happened to the jeep? (Displayed on the shed-side of the camp) Being over 110 miles from the nearest town that could do repairs..it more or less assumed it's "monumental" function out of practicality.

J@H

Haha...oh ya, I DO understand. Bangor the mecca of civilization for the North Country...and fron LAFB..indeed a good "day" trip.
Ever do the St John's river to any extent?

5096. christipeters - 8/2/2000 1:51:26 PM

Thoughtful - I like Canada Goose better than Mallard duck which always tasted dry to me. I sorta remember my Mom's duck recipe as I was amazed that she could stuff it with oranges and constantly baste it in wine and it still! tasted dry to me. However, I don't remember how she fixed Canada goose. If you like, I'll ask her how she prepared the goose and post the recipe.

5097. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 2:22:10 PM

Lab:

No, we went to St. Johns but didn't do too much river stuff. Except once, my husbands troops participated in the Aroostick Raft Regatta or some such thing.

We used to go to this neat little place called St. Andrews By The Sea for the weekend. We stayed once at the Algonquion, a huge old hotel out in the woods that was elegant as could be. We would go to Grand Falls a lot....once, we drove all the way up to the tip of the Gaspé pennisula (sp?) and I felt we'd left civilization far behind....

5098. Ronski - 8/2/2000 2:25:06 PM

I had heard that Canada Goose tasted pretty awful, from a man from India who, working in this country at a nearby medical center, had bagged one on the Bronx River Parkway in NY.

Perhaps it was an old bird.

5099. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 2:30:55 PM

Aroostook...Algoncquin...and "Gaspe" sounds good to me. Heard of it...can't, for the life of me, remember how it was spelled. Gasp!

5100. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 2:35:15 PM

Canadian geese make great roasts! The trick is to cook it covered real slow (225 / 2 hrs). 30 minutes at 325 (before uncovering and of course steady basting), then remove the cover and broil for 20 mins with frequent basting. Cover and turn heat down to about 200 and let sit for about 15-30 minutes. Voila! (Taste like chicken..heh-heh)

5101. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 2:37:59 PM

Oh...the water(juice)level should be about half-way up the body of the bird at the outset. During the broil period the juice level should be broiled back down to half way of the body. (Butter is NOT optional).

5102. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 2:38:17 PM

Well, I looked up "Gaspé" on the map of New Brunswick because I couldn't remember the name and was thinking GaspAR but I knew it had a little dash on the end. :-)

The other 2 I tried to spell phonetically and blew it big time on the river Aroostook....my apologies to the Mainer. Did you ever go to Calais?....I laughed when I heard it called "Cal-less" but saw the best looking sign for a little motel there: the Better Duck Inn painted on the body of a huge white duck who was being trailed by 5 little baby ducklings.

5103. labwabbit - 8/2/2000 2:44:11 PM

J@H

No apologies necessary. Lived there most of my life and still can't spell the majority of the Nesoudnahunks and Nahrihmakanta etc..

Yes it is funny how from away people bastardize town names like Calais, (pronounced Ca-lay'). Why take Bangor...Bang'-ah is the right way haha.

5104. PelleNilsson - 8/2/2000 4:50:25 PM

labwabbit

I can only conclude that the habits of the moose of Maine are different from those of Sweden.

5105. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 5:10:16 PM

Canada Goose sounds like a lot of work. I've never dressed a bird before and am not sure I want to start.

Besides, if it tastes like chicken.....

5106. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 5:12:49 PM

judithah, this must be the place, no?

5107. Ronski - 8/2/2000 5:15:36 PM

The picture of the red and sugar maples at the height of their glory was lovely.

5108. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 5:16:29 PM

Thoughtful!!! That's it!!! Thanks so much....it is truly a wonderful place.

5109. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 5:17:02 PM

Ronski:

They look just like the picture, too!

5110. Thoughtful - 8/2/2000 5:17:26 PM

Ronski, -- yeah up there that was probably taken in July! If they say Maine has two season, Winter & July, what do you suppose NB has?

5111. labwabbit - 8/3/2000 12:53:06 AM

Pelle

I can only conclude that the habits of the moose of Maine are different from those of Sweden.

Well, I would think they have similar habits...perhaps its the area they have to roam in that dictates specifically honed survival habits.But I'll bet they don't taste like chicken either...

5112. Thoughtful - 8/3/2000 1:43:15 PM

Heck, even chicken don't taste like chicken any more!

Can't help but remember one of the old Bugs Bunny toons where Bugs gets drafted into the army and is told to dress the chickens for the officers dinner. Of course he has them all decked out in top hats and tails!

5113. CalGal - 8/3/2000 11:48:25 PM

I have some nice copper pans that were taking up room in my cupboards. I looked at them and realized that I should just hang them up somewhere.

So I took them out of the kitchen, cleaned them up, and there's just one problem now.

I keep tripping over them.

Because I can't find any convenient little gizmo to buy to hang up and hang them on, so they're still on the floor by the couch, where I left them when I cleaned them. Beds and Bath has nothing. Any suggestions?

5114. theDiva - 8/4/2000 7:06:41 AM

Jaysus.

5115. theDiva - 8/4/2000 7:24:42 AM

Here is one.

5116. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 7:48:20 AM

And here is something to put it up with.

5117. Thoughtful - 8/4/2000 8:42:39 AM

calgal, you can use anything that you want to hang pots off the ceiling....some people even get an old hunk of iron fencing and hang it up. No need to spend a lot of money -- only need to think creatively -- and make sure you don't have low ceilings!

5118. CalGal - 8/4/2000 9:29:12 AM

Pelle,

I have my power screwdriver, which is the greatest invention in the world, I think.

Deev,

That is from the ceiling. Can't you get the kind that hang on the wall? I thought it would be very simple to find in a store, but can't yet.

Thoughtful,

I am nesting-impaired, so it needs to be pretty simple.

5119. bubbaette - 8/4/2000 9:32:06 AM

In the past, I've just hung the pots and pans from nails.

5120. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 9:33:58 AM

A power screwdriver is indeed a great thing for wood. In our apartment, the ceiling and walls are concrete and one needs one of those? Is hammer drill the correct term in English? It vibrates as it drills.

5121. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 9:34:37 AM

Delete first question mark.

5122. glendajean - 8/4/2000 9:51:25 AM

Pelle -- is concrete common in Sweden for interior walls in residences? Here, walls are usually plaster (for older homes & apts)or drywall, a compacted, chalky substance covered in a thick paper.

5123. bubbaette - 8/4/2000 9:57:29 AM

Pelle

Hilti Gun? The have a little gun powder charge and will drive a nail in concrete.

5124. glendajean - 8/4/2000 9:59:21 AM

Of course, I left out cheap paneling. What's a mobile home without it.

5125. JudithAtHome - 8/4/2000 10:07:23 AM

CalGal:

Go to the hardware store and get some decorative wall hooks....place them at intervals on one wall and hang the pans....you can go from ceiling all the way down to almost the floor, just put them in an appealing arrangement. Or you could find an old iron gate from a flea market and hang it against the wall, hang the pots all over it.

Maybe the iron gate is a little too Shabby Chic for your taste, though. You can also buy a louvered panel, like folding closet doors are made from, and lean it against a wall, add hooks, and viola!

5126. Thoughtful - 8/4/2000 10:10:29 AM

Pelle, hammer drill is the correct term. However, for home applications, we don't normally resort to such things, going a little more slowly but successfully with concrete drills with carbide tips which are designed to go through concrete, plaster and such. Then we use plastic wall anchors which allow screws to be screwed in securely.

5127. CalGal - 8/4/2000 10:11:40 AM

So there's not just some rack like Diva linked in, except for on a wall? That seems to have so much less decision time associated with it.

But barring that, I certainly hadn't thought of individual hooks. I can do that, I think.

5128. JudithAtHome - 8/4/2000 10:20:35 AM

CAl:

There are things for the wall, they are curved out and look very nice. I've sold 2 in the past year...I found mine at estate sales but I'm sure any kitchen specialty stores would have them.

5129. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 12:33:06 PM

glenda

Apartment buildings here are made of reinforced concrete. The inner walls are part of the load-bearing structure, so they are of concrete too, except sub-divisions for bathrooms, wardrobes and so on. They are usually of some kind of gypsum board (perhaps the same as your "plaster"?) which is a hopeless material to put things up on.

(Ah, sentence ended with a preposition, I like to break that particular rule, which I've never understood the importance of.)

Things are so much better in the summer cottage which is made of timebr. There all you need is a hammer and a three-inch nail.

5130. glendajean - 8/4/2000 5:22:16 PM

Plaster is a compound or mixture that is applied wet onto the wall and then allowed to dry. In 18th and 19th century houses, moldings were also made out of plaster. My house in DC had plaster walls, and it was a pain to hang anything on the wall. If I wasn't careful, I could chip and crack a large area. Drywall allows for light hanging, but anything heavy requires finding a stud (the wooden posts that the drywall is attached to at intervals) or using toggle bolts.

The other negative about plaster walls is that if there is any moisture along the outside of the wall, it can affect the plaster, causing it to bubble. I got pretty good at patching plaster before we moved (for the cracks), but wasn't any good at all at the smoothing out of new plaster over large sections. My repairman described this as like putting frosting on a cake.

You know much more about this than I, but I was just explaining American terms.

Concrete walls are quite rare in the States. Is the concrete solid mass, or cement blocks laid like brick?

5131. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 5:46:33 PM

Plaster walls are killers. When we lived in Arab countries they usually had those and we had to pay for the replastering of almost every apartment we lived.

The walls are solid concrete. What is then the supporting structure in American apartment buildings? Some kind of steel skeleton?

Villas here are mostly built with a wooden frame, even if the exterior is bricks.

5132. CalGal - 8/4/2000 5:47:17 PM

Really? I'm nearly sure that when I lived in Saudi Arabia the walls were always concrete. I'll have to check with my mom.

5133. glendajean - 8/4/2000 6:03:30 PM

Pelle -- in apartment buildings that are 3 stories or less, the walls are wood framed with drywall. In high rises, they use aluminum frames and drywall. If somebody else is better versed in this, dive in.

5134. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 6:07:19 PM

CalGal

I wasn't very clear. Yes, concrete, but with plaster on top.

5135. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 6:15:24 PM

glenda

This could be described as wood framed with drywall. Is that how they look.

5136. SnowOwl - 8/4/2000 6:21:35 PM

How quaint. Is that somewhere in Sweden, Pelle?

5137. stostosto - 8/4/2000 6:23:17 PM

SnowOwl
It's in the German town Goslar: Hotel zur Börse.

5138. SnowOwl - 8/4/2000 6:28:40 PM

Ah, thanks sto. I'll be in Sweden in February, so I was interested in case it was a place I should put on my "must see" list. In fact, it does show the influence of the Hanseatic League and I remember seeing similar places in Rotterdam.

5139. CalGal - 8/4/2000 6:29:09 PM

Snow! I'm glad to see you.

5140. SnowOwl - 8/4/2000 6:31:42 PM

Cal!

It's great to see you again. I've missed this place recently, but life has been kicking me in the teeth and I haven't had much time for the pleasures of the Internet.

5141. CalGal - 8/4/2000 6:32:37 PM

Well, I've been worried. I hope all is okay. Check out the discussion in Internet Life on our anniversary, if you have time.

5142. SnowOwl - 8/4/2000 6:37:00 PM

Everything's fine now. There's just been some problems with my mother who lives at the other end of the country. She's broken her hip and while in hospital was diagnosed with early stage dementia, so can no longer live by herself. There's been a lot of coming and going trying to find suitable accomodation for her. The main burden of the work has fallen on my sisters who live near to Mum, but I've had to make several flying trips up to help get things sorted out.

I'll check Internet Life.

5143. PelleNilsson - 8/4/2000 7:18:12 PM

SnowOwl

So nice to see you!

And sto didn't know just like that. He clicked on "View page source", I'm sure. There are thousands of houses that look roughly like that in Germany.

In Denmark and the south of Sweden (ex-Denmark) there are similar houses:



They consist of a wooden frame with mud mixed with straw as filler between the beams.

5144. stostosto - 8/4/2000 7:31:17 PM

shhh, Pelle!
You are giving me away!

Those houses are called "bindingsværkshuse" which my dictionary renders as half-timbered houses.

I actually live in such a house. Or perhaps it's only a semi-half-timbered house, since it was built in the 1930s as a nostalgic harkening-back to the style of yore, if highly unorthodoxly so, and was subsequently enlarged in the 50s.

I once posted a picture of it, here it is again:

5145. Uzmakk - 8/5/2000 4:04:31 PM

Hello Sto and all gardeners:

My question-- Is there a best time to transplant oriental lilies?

5146. Uzmakk - 8/5/2000 4:06:28 PM

Cozy looking house, btw. Cozy is best.

5147. bubbaette - 8/7/2000 1:28:13 PM

helpful hint for those who want to kill grass along a fenceline organically: when I was done canning last weekend, I emptied the canner full of boiling water along the fence line. It worked like a charm.

5148. DaveM - 8/7/2000 1:34:32 PM

Bubb -

Do you think it was the heat or the chemicals in the canning process that killed the grass?

5149. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 2:14:07 PM

Dave

Canning has nothing to do with chemicals. The cans are put into a canner filled with water and pasteurized at a high temperature. I believe modern canners are of the pressurized type.

Read all about it here.

5150. bubbaette - 8/7/2000 2:19:43 PM

I do plain ol hot water bath canning that uses just boiling water. I don't do pressure cookers as I'm afraid of them. In the past I let the water cool after canning and them used it to water my garden. But with all the rain we've been having, I've just been pouring the boiling water along the fence line.

5151. DaveM - 8/7/2000 2:20:44 PM

Thanks Pelle - I was thinking of pickling. Shows how much I know.

5152. bubbaette - 8/7/2000 2:25:11 PM

Cool site on canning, Pelle. I've book marked it for future reference. Thanks

5153. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 2:27:49 PM

Pelle, just to make sure things are straight, the picture you posted is not what we in the states call dry wall and wood frame. Rather, the wood frame is usually 2x4 wood beams or 2x6 or even 2x10 for floors or ceiling joists. These then are covered with plywood or OSB (oriented strand board which is masses of thin wood chips laid in various directions, glued together under tremendous heat & pressure to create a very strong product) on the outside. Then any of various kinds of siding will be applied -- shingles, clapborads, vinyl, brick face, stucco, etc.

Inside the walls and ceilings are usually covered with sheet rock or gypsum board or dry wall -- all the same name for a gypsum based product with heavy paper coating on both sides. These are usually screwed to the 2x4s and then the seams are taped and covered with compound to yield a smooth wall. The walls can then be finished as desired with paint, wall paper, whatever.

The finished building typically has none of the structural wood showing at all.

5154. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 2:30:59 PM

Due to the increased difficulty in getting quality wood products and due to environmental sensitivity, more construction is going to steel-frame. This is frequently used in commercial applications, but more residential is being done with it. It offers added advantages like insect and rot resistance, and strength. However, many residential contractors are uncomfortable working with it so its spread has been slow. Also, natural product exteriors are not recommended for steel frame construction due to expansion differences.

5155. glendajean - 8/7/2000 2:45:45 PM

Uz -- re: transplanting oriental lilies

I would assume that the best time to divide and/or move them would be in early fall, certainly the period AFTER they have bloomed. If you do it in the spring time, you risk screwing up the plant's blooming cycle. My experience with orientals is limited. I had planted some in DC garden last year.

I'll look it up tonight.

Thoughtful -- well said

Pelle -- I was speaking of interior plastered walls with the framing hidden beneath the plastor. In the US, the wood frame and plaster exterior is usually called "Tudor," (after English houses during the Tudor era). This type of design was very popular in the early 20th century. A large second story overhang was usually wood framed with plaster and the rest of the house was built with red brick.

5156. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 3:07:23 PM

Of course, it's hard to generalize across the States as it is such a large area with such geographic diversity. Local building materials may differ substantially as there is an economic incentive to use what's available locally. So you will see a lot more brick houses in the south due to the availability of clay products and insect resistance. You will see more steeply pitched rooves in the snow country to avoid collapsing under the weight of snow. You will see adobe construction in the southwest, and more frequent use of redwood on the west coast.

5157. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 3:12:36 PM

Down in south Fla and other low-lying areas there are no basements due to high water table. However, up North most houses have basements as it keeps the homes warmer in the winter.

Then of course as the US has such a diverse ethnic background, you will see as many different styles of homes as you will people. Tudor as Gj suggests, mediterranean, colonial to A-frames to French chalet-type castles. They're all here somewhere as are tee-pees, igloos, and geodesic domes and underground houses. Poured concrete to rammed earth...no shortage of imagination here.

5158. Uzmakk - 8/7/2000 3:15:13 PM

Thanks GJ. I will wait for a month or so.

5159. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 3:17:35 PM

I have a recurring nightmare that hits every time I spend a day or more working on a big project...for example, when we cleaned and scrubbed and rearranged the basement so it actually looked nice, the next a.m. I always check to make sure the gremlins didn't put it all back the way it was so I'd have to do all that work over again. Sort of Sisyphusian.

I realized yesterday that that's why I dislike gardening so much. You can spend hours weeding -- as I did yesterday, as my hamstrings will attest to today -- only to go back a week later and have to do it all again! It's my nightmare come to life!

5160. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 3:26:55 PM

Thanks Thoughtful and glenda. I suppose building techniques has much to do with the availablity and cost of materials. Here we have abundance of calcium (=concrete) and wood. But after disastrous fires at the end of the 19th century wood is prohibited in multi-storey buildings.

5161. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 3:27:36 PM

Thanks Thoughtful and glenda. I suppose building techniques has much to do with the availablity and cost of materials. Here we have abundance of calcium (=concrete) and wood. But after disastrous fires at the end of the 19th century wood is prohibited in multi-storey buildings.

5162. glendajean - 8/7/2000 3:32:48 PM

Thoughtful -- Consistent weeding, particularly in the spring, along with the use of mulch, will allow you to see benefit from your efforts. One good growing season of constant weeding (and it's easier to do in small spurts) will pay off the next year.

Unless, of course, you, like me, have moved to a new place, and are afraid of a) killing or uprooting something that should stay, and b) poison ivy.

5163. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 3:43:42 PM

I'm sorry, but that doesn't work in my case. We have a large rock garden. The lower level has some nice plants in it and that's what I usually get to weed. It's a pain to keep up with, but we usually manage it. However, this year, with all the rain we've had, the weeds have been growing like crazy and we haven't had a dry enough weekend to get out there until yesterday. I spent 4 hours out there weeding and didn't get it all done.

The upper level had a large maple in the middle of it and I let the whole area around the tree spread with lily of the valley. Great shade ground cover and dense enough to choke out most weeds and grass. A few clumps of other things like day lilies made it in there, but it was largely no care....just the way I like it.

This spring, the tree came down. The plants on top got pretty well trounced and now it's getting almost full-day sun. The lily of the valley is shriveling badly and the weeds have moved in in abundance. The ground is very rough as it's full of tree roots yet. I hate to pull all the weeds and leave bare earth -- I think the weeds help to work and maintain whatever soil there is up there. Until I can figure out what to plant, I'm leaving most of it as is -- pulling out the obvious and most noxious weeds. Still the other stuff keeps spreading and seeding itself in the rest of the rock garden....hubby's ready to get a back hoe in, level the thing and plant grass. I'm not quite there yet, but if I don't do something with the top this fall, I may join him in his sentiment.

5164. glendajean - 8/7/2000 3:57:49 PM

Thoughtful, rock gardens are high maintenance, as you attest.

You might want to look at products like Preen. Supposedly, if you work it in after weeding, it will help retard future weed growth.

5165. Thoughtful - 8/7/2000 4:02:51 PM

There's a weed that I'm letting grow up there - I can't remember the name, but it has tiny pink flowers on it -- it seems to be taking over the top. There's another plant that reminds me of a sedum in that the leaves and stem seem water soaked like a sedum. It spreads like mad and is very pale green with yellow-ish blooms on the end -- not really blooms as it's very small, but it's whatever it does that's the equivalent of blooming. I also have cypress spurge. I've had to weed this stuff out as it was completely covering my irises and I know their risomes need sunlight to bloom....so even the non-weed things seem to need weeding.

Also this year my day lilies are really shot. They've been in the same spot since before we moved in 20+ years ago. The deer top them early in the spring and I think it's really finally taking its toll. I think I'll rip them all out, amend the soil and replant. Hopefully that'll help them recover for next year. I like them as they too are such low maintenance.

5166. bubbaette - 8/7/2000 4:07:16 PM

Corn gluten is much the same as Preen, but much cheaper. Corn gluten is basically corn meal without the germ. I've worked plain old corn meal into the soil and it worked fine. But don't use it where you're trying to germinate anything.

5167. glendajean - 8/7/2000 4:19:20 PM

Great suggestion, Bubbaette -- I'm going to try that.

5168. thoughtful - 8/7/2000 6:27:14 PM

The weed that seems to be very happy in the top part of my rock garden is called smartweed.

5169. glendajean - 8/8/2000 10:49:09 AM

Thoughtful -- your smartweed grows along Rock Creek Park in DC. I never could get anybody to identify it for me. Thanks.

Bubbaette -- talk to us more about your corn gluten use. How do you apply it, when. Do you use it with perennials or only vegetable plants? It retards germination, but does it affect growth of young plants?

5170. Thoughtful - 8/8/2000 11:35:59 AM

Actually I found this to be a great web site -- I found lots of plants I recognize but never knew the names of. Also has a nice section on maples -- I can recognize them but don't know which is which. This site helps.

5171. glendajean - 8/9/2000 2:26:34 PM

It's the middle of August, time to be thinking about dividing bearded irises. Split up the rhyzomes (sp?), keeping some green attached to each new part, cut off and throw away the rotted out parts, trim the fronds back to half and re-plant, only covering the rhyzomes halfway (in other words, leave the top part of the rhyzome uncovered). Make sure that you are planting in a spot that gets good sunlight and in soil that is not marshy or constantly damp.

5172. Thoughtful - 8/10/2000 8:58:35 AM

Excellent gj! When I was doing all that weeding this past weekend, I thought it might be time to handle these puppies. Hubby's been complaining as the irises have spread out of the rock garden border into the lawn. I've been reluctant to move them as they are doing so well, but I guess it's time and I must.

Is now a good time to attack the bed of day lilies too? They really look ill. I'd like to do it when I have the best chance for blooming again next year, so I thought maybe now through fall?

5173. bubbaette - 8/10/2000 9:32:29 AM

Bubbaette -- talk to us more about your corn gluten use. How do you
apply it, when. Do you use it with perennials or only vegetable plants? It retards germination, but does it affect growth of young plants?

I use it after I plant sets in the spring -- just rake it into the soil. It retards germination but has no ill effects on already started plants and works with vegetables and flowers. I have a friend who rakes it in periodically throughout the summer and has good results with it. I mulch with straw instead.

5174. glendajean - 8/10/2000 10:12:47 AM

Bubbaette -- where do you get your straw (and thank you for the gluten update and for answering a request you probably don't hear much).

Thoughtful --if you part of the world is cool between now and late fall, and your day lilies are finished flowering, go ahead and divide them now. If it is currently hot temps where you live, wait till it gets a little cooler.

I love planting in the fall because it gives the plants a leg up, so to speak, on developing root system before next summer's heat. This is particularly true for southern climates.

Isn't it getting close to the time Snow Owl started talking to us about her anticipation of spring bulbs in New Zealand? Snow Owl, come back!

5175. glendajean - 8/10/2000 10:16:53 AM

We do the irises early because if one waits till fall, it will disturb the flower production resulting in no blooms next year.

Irises often don't bloom as profusely the next year, but dividing every two to three years makes them healthier and gives you investment return on your original purchase.

Irises are also one of the best plants to hand down from generation to generation. How many times do you hear, "these belonged to my grandmother (or aunt or old neighbor)."

In Central Texas, common flags (slightly smaller stalks than the bearded ones, in colors of white, yellow or purple)are naturalized everywhere. I saw some flags in DC, but not in Indy. I guess zone 5 is too cold for them.

5176. bubbaette - 8/10/2000 10:19:03 AM

GJ

I get it at Lowes or at Southern States. There are always a few grass seeds in straw that seed themselves, but the mulch keeps that ground moist enough that they practically pull themselves.

5177. Ronski - 8/10/2000 10:45:06 AM

I planted some blue flag wild irises, the variety native to the Northeast, around my property, including adjacent to an occasional stream by the road. Where deer did not tread, they did quite well. I also planted some Louisiana iris, which are hybirds of native varieties including NE blue flag, the Texas variety glendajean mentions (I'm pretty sure), and iris fulva, or red iris, which is native to the Mississippi Valley area and is the reddest iris to be found in the world. These did not bloom the first year, but I suspect they will next year.

5178. Thoughtful - 8/10/2000 10:46:42 AM

When we had a veggie garden, we mulched with grass clippings from the lawn. Dad still uses it in his garden. We found the clippings much easier to lay neatly and densely than the longer stuff. When hubby used to sickle-mow the fields, we'd still go over the stuff with a mower to get it down to a neat size.

Somehow grass clipping in a flower bed just don't sit well with me. I've seen other mulch like barley hulls or cocoa hulls used to good effect, but not hay/grass.

Our tomatoes have really gone crazy. The plants have been tied up to an overhead rail and are over 6' high. This is nuts. We have a few tomatoes on them, but they aren't green yet. We've had so much rain and clouds, it's ridiculous. The other day was so cold and wet and it got dark about 5 p.m....someone said did we go through a timewarp and end up in November? Not good ripening weather.

5179. Ronski - 8/10/2000 11:09:31 AM

I liked the smell of the cocoa hulls when I used them once, but they seemed to get a nasty white mold eventually.

5180. Thoughtful - 8/10/2000 11:58:38 AM

I mean they aren't red yet -- the tomatoes, that is.

5181. Ronski - 8/10/2000 1:51:40 PM

I want to remind all the North Americans here that it is Perseid Meteor Shower time. I saw a beautiful one from our deck Sunday night. Keep watching the skies!

5182. PelleNilsson - 8/10/2000 2:42:07 PM

cmboyce

I found my original post re the Arctic Loon here.

5183. cmboyce - 8/10/2000 10:51:31 PM

I hate to say it, Pelle, but it didn't work. I got a screen with a blank box at the top with the name of the sponsor, two lines of apparently linked text ("send this to a friend" and "let me know what you think" or something like that), two lines of text reading "Here one is supposed to type something" and "Here one is supposed to type something else" (very nice!) and in the lower left hand corner, the squawk box. But the whole thing was frozen—the globe wasn't turning (but was there), and the cursor would not respond to clicking, anywhere, on or off the screen. Then, part by part, it was wiped, from top to bottom. Then it came back, all but the squawk box. The cursor remained ineffective. After a while I got an error message telling me I had to turn the machine off and start over (a fairly frequent phenomenon hereabouts, but never on-line before). This happened twice. Then I gave up.

So, I missed it again. Unless you just feel like fucking with it, for the techies' thrill of fucking with it, please don't fuck with it. I'm quite satisfied to know that it was there; it's like knowing about conceptual art.

5184. arkymalarky - 8/10/2000 11:39:45 PM

I heard it!

Interesting evening out here. We have a huge owl which hunts out of our largest oak at night, and has actually landed in the yard before sundown with us right on the porch (haven't seen the hawks for the summer--maybe the birds work in shifts). He calls from the trees and flies from one to the other and is just very cool to watch. We were intent on him when Diva and Sasha (known to us when they're together as Mutt and Jeff) began barking at something under the tree. There was barely enough light to see that it was a snake, and we got the flashlight and a shovel and saw it was a copperhead, which Bob killed. It was right where we stroll in the yard, close to the house.

5185. PelleNilsson - 8/11/2000 1:59:44 AM

cm

Sorry about the troubles. Others have heard it so it may be a browser thing. Later today I'll try to link it directly as a .wav file.

5186. PelleNilsson - 8/11/2000 7:51:26 AM

cm

The Loon as a .mp3 file (637 KB). When you click on the link a new window opens and you have to click again to download. If you don't have an MP3 player and you are on a PC you can download Mediaplayer. If you are on a Mac I leave you to your own devices.

If none of these paths are open to you and you have a desperate, almost loony, craving to hear the loon you can download the .wav file. It is 7 MB.

5187. SnowOwl - 8/13/2000 5:49:44 AM

glendajean

How nice of you to remember. We've been having a very peculiar winter this year. In my part of the country it's been exceptionally mild and dry. In fact temperatures reached 20C on a couple of days last week, which is a reasonably warm day for us in summer. As a result the gardens have got a litle confused, and there are many things blooming already. My roses have had no real period of dormancy this year. All of the violets in the garden are flowering and filling the air with their lovely perfume. My snowdrops are almost finished and I have a number of daffodils out now, especially my favourite miniature varieties. There are blossoms on the plum and flowering cherry trees and the first of the rhododendrons is in full bloom.

Unfortunately, there's been an abrupt change in the weather over the weekend. We had strong gale force winds today which have sent the blossoms flying off the trees and the temperatures have plummetted. There's heavy snow in some parts of my province, although it hasn't reached my town yet.

Last year we also had a very mild winter, which was followed by a lousy summer. I hope we don't follow the same pattern this year. I much prefer my foul weather at the time I expect it, not when we should be soaking up warm sunshine.

5188. PelleNilsson - 8/13/2000 6:06:44 AM

Hello SnowOwl

I see that NZ occupies about the same latitudes in the south hemisphere as North Africa, Italy and Spain in the north. So what is the deciding factor for your weather? Ocean currents?

5189. SnowOwl - 8/13/2000 4:23:01 PM

Pelle

I'm no climatologist but I understand that one of the major factors in our weather patterns is that there is no land mass between us and the Antarctic. The pattern of prevailing winds means that a lot of cold, wet air is dragged up from the southern oceans and there is no land between to break it up.

Dunedin (the city in which I live) is situated at 45 south. I can't find my map to work out where the equivalent northern latitude runs. It is a lot warmer in more northern parts of the country and a lot wetter on the west coast. We visited Milford Sound a couple of weeks ago (a place described by Rudyard Kipling as the eighth wonder of the world) and that's located in an area which has one of the highest average annual rainfall rates in the world. Luckily there's a mountain range between there and here so we're spared most of the rain from that direction.

5190. SnowOwl - 8/13/2000 4:28:10 PM

Pelle,

Further to the subject of weather my son's wedding plans are now confirmed. He is getting married on February 10. Plans seem to be well in hand and I can't say I like the sound of them very much. He tells us that we will be frdriven in a minivan om Stockholm to Junsele (7 hours?) and will stay in cabins there. He seems to think it's all going to be great fun, but I'm quaking in my shoes at the thought of Sweden in winter, sleigh rides notwithstanding.

5191. PelleNilsson - 8/14/2000 3:22:33 AM

SnowOwl

45 degrees north runs through northern Italy.

This may be one of the cabins:


I don't think you have to worry too much about the weather. If it is really cold (-20C or so) it is by definition also clear, calm and dry.

5192. glendajean - 8/14/2000 10:13:02 AM

Snow Owl, indeed, welcome. I hope that you keep us updated on the Southern Hemisphere happenings as we roll into the end of our summer.

Like clockwork, my grape hyacith has started sending up little shoots.

5193. cmboyce - 8/14/2000 10:25:50 AM

Pelle, thanks very much for the loon, even though, MP3-less, on a Mac and without any "devices" to speak of, I can't hear it. N'less, internally, the north beckons in the loon call.

5194. Ronski - 8/14/2000 12:20:32 PM

Land masses and water do of course influence the weather in numerous ways. One theory as to why the Earth is currently in the period of the Ice Ages (we are in one of the lulls) is this: The sliding of the Indian subcontinent into Eurasia, creating the Himalayas, and the joining of North and South America, largely separating the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, formed impediments to water and air flow which makes the Earth much cooler than it would be otherwise.

5195. PelleNilsson - 8/14/2000 4:15:22 PM

A main course of guinea hen (pintade) stuffed with rosemary, fennel, dried tomatoes and black olives was a pure delight in flavor and presentation. The poultry was prepared in the most traditional of ways - en vessie: wrapped in a pig's bladder and poached in chicken stock, making for a moist, fragrant bird

5196. glendajean - 8/14/2000 4:20:22 PM

Pelle -- please explain.

5197. PelleNilsson - 8/14/2000 4:30:26 PM

Patricia Wells reviewing a dinner at Restaurant Pic in the Lyon region. A while ago we had a mini-competition in Stories re flowery descriptions of meals. Maybe I should have posted there.

5198. glendajean - 8/14/2000 4:37:07 PM

No, I'm glad you posted here. I just didn't catch the "context."

5199. glendajean - 8/15/2000 4:47:20 PM

I have two gardening jobs. One is a slope and small yard in front of a Victorian church in Georgetown (back in DC), and one is a brick Georgian two story house in Indy (talk about switcheroo on type and location).

Both have slopes (the properties are above street level and the slopes connect down to the sidewalks, slopes of about 3-4 feet). The church has accepted that their slope needs plants. The homeowner is wary of plants and groundcover It's far enough from the house to be out of sight and thus susceptible to less maintenance.

Still, mowing that slope has got to be a bitch.

Both are in full sun and will need plants that are water tolerant. I'm thinking of lavendar, dianthus, purple coneflower, day lilies, spirea, with forsythia and some type of evergreen on the ends. (for the church).

There was an article in Sunday's NY TImes "Cuttings" column about sedges that make decent ground cover.

5200. cmboyce - 8/16/2000 9:52:12 AM

Mmmmmm! Both Pelle's hen and glendajean's ante-narthex sound delicious!

5201. Ronski - 8/16/2000 10:51:41 AM

We are now running at rainfall 200 percent above normal for the season.

The marigolds are rotting.

Granted, they are Mexican natives and love the sun, but I have never seen them rot before. I probably planted them too close together in some spots.

5202. Thoughtful - 8/16/2000 1:17:40 PM

Ronski, as you know, I can relate to the rain.

Seems like every year there is a ubiquitous flower. This year, everywhere I go I see masses of black-eyed susans blooming everywhere. All of a sudden everyone seems to have them....was there a big sale that I missed? They might be just what I need for the top of my rock garden -- the one that's covered with smartweed right now.

5203. Ronski - 8/16/2000 1:23:02 PM

I think the black-eyed susan craze is the result of very successful efforts by breeders. The popular varieties sold now are very hardy, bloom continuously, and are pest-free. I see them everywhere in the NE now, used where foundation-type evergreens used to be placed, or placed near evergreens and such.

5204. Thoughtful - 8/16/2000 4:18:00 PM

ronski, are they annuals that will reseed themselves or are they perennials, or will I be planting every year.

5205. glendajean - 8/16/2000 4:21:02 PM

Rubeckia has become the new old reliable, much like purple coneflower.

5206. glendajean - 8/16/2000 4:37:15 PM

Thoughtful -- they're perennials. They re-seed.

5207. Thoughtful - 8/17/2000 9:55:07 AM

glendaj, those are two separate events. Reseeding in not necessarily perennial. Are you saying they do both?

5208. glendajean - 8/17/2000 10:12:55 AM

Yes.

5209. Ronski - 8/17/2000 10:14:17 AM

They do both, as a rule.

5210. glendajean - 8/17/2000 10:14:23 AM

Unless, of course, the freeze zone in your region is so cold that it would kill them. I don't know their hardiness, but everywhere that I've lived, they freeze back and return in the fall. They often spread by re-seeding, too. Same as purple coneflowers.

5211. glendajean - 8/17/2000 10:14:59 AM

Lambs Ear (stachys byzantium) do the same thing.

5212. Thoughtful - 8/17/2000 10:48:07 AM

when you buy the black-eyed susies, are they seeds? plants? or either? I'm assuming they are drought resistant. As I've said many times, I need real roadside plants that can take a lot of abuse.

5213. Thoughtful - 8/17/2000 10:52:35 AM

Lambs ear we have growing wild -- the plant itself is interesting only because of the fuzziness, but the blossom color is pretty spectacular. Another roadside plant that we are not allowed to pick because of its endangered status is butterfly weed. The color there too is spectacular -- is that something that's available for purchase do you know?

5214. Thoughtful - 8/17/2000 11:00:36 AM

butterfly weed

lamb's ear but this is not the one I was thinking of....we have one that the fuzzy leaves stay close to the ground and then it shoots up a fairly tall shoot with occasional blossoms along the stem -- blossoms are fairly flat, about an inch in diameter, and in the most spectacular shade -- a little bluer than a royal purple.

5215. Ronski - 8/17/2000 11:05:21 AM

Butterfly weed is one of my three thousand favorites! It does indeed attract butterflies by the zillions. Plants are available at nurseries more and more, and more readily through the usual catalogs. There is a strain available from seed that has been bred beyond the usual orange to include red and yellow shades. I have one blooming now that is a very soft orange-salmon color.

They are impossible to transplant if dug out of a field, for they have very long and very sensitive taproots. This makes even transplanting from a nursery source a little tricky, but it is worth the try.

They are relatives of the common milkweed that comes in a dusky pink color and an alba (off-white) form.

5216. glendajean - 8/17/2000 11:22:10 AM

Thoughtful -- you can buy rubeckia at almost any nursery. I'd suggest gallon pots.

I rip off the Lambs Ear stalks because it helps to keep the plants more compact. It's a judgment call on my part, but I don't think the tiny blooms are worthy enough for the seeds they produce and spred over the garden.

5217. Ronski - 8/17/2000 2:40:29 PM

The butterfly weed cultivar in different colors I was thinking of is called "gay butterflies."

Now how could I forget a name like that.

There is also a yellow cultivar called "Hello Yellow."



This weekend, they are predicting record low temps in the NE for Sunday night.

5218. glendajean - 8/17/2000 2:44:11 PM

Ronski - like the purple pipe brush-like Liatris, or gayfeather.

5219. PelleNilsson - 8/17/2000 5:29:13 PM

Today is the third Thursday of August, a day of some importance around here, especially in the north, because it marks the release of this year's crop of rotten herring.

It is not really rotten, you know, it just smells that way. It's actually fermented.

5220. janjon - 8/17/2000 5:32:42 PM

What do you mean, the release of this year's crop of it-ain't-rotten-it-just-smells-that-way herring. Release to whom. For what purposes.

5221. PelleNilsson - 8/17/2000 5:43:04 PM

To the public.

For the eating of it. This weekend will be a smelly one.

5222. glendajean - 8/17/2000 5:53:55 PM

Aha. Possibly the source of PE's colorful anti-Scandinavian descriptions.

5223. Ronski - 8/17/2000 5:56:36 PM

Thank God. I thought there might be some sort of environmental warfare breaking out in Scandinavia.

5224. janjon - 8/17/2000 5:59:41 PM

I suspect that those herring create their own form of environmental warfare.

5225. PelleNilsson - 8/17/2000 6:01:42 PM

Further clarification:

The herrings are caught in May, just before the spawning season when they are fat, jolly and roe-filled (the lady herrings, that is) and are then subjected to "the treatment" and finally canned for distribution to the shops today.

Tomorrow I'll see if I can find some source on the nature of the treatment and perhaps a pic.

5226. janjon - 8/17/2000 6:04:53 PM

By all means, pelle. In color, please. And, make sure that we get to see the fermentation process in its various stages.

Yum.

5227. Ronski - 8/17/2000 6:10:56 PM

Pelle,

I am something of a herringista, a few times removed. Being partly of North German (Low German) extraction, pickled herring was always around at family gatherings (on my Mother's side), especially during the Christmas holidays. We always ate herring salad (made with herring, sour cream, beets, potatoes, celery, and walnuts) for good luck on New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. Is that a Swedish custom, too, the good luck thing?

5228. Ronski - 8/17/2000 6:12:57 PM

(Incidentally, I practically forced my partner to try some last New Year's. Even though he is one-quarter Danish, it took some time for him to get it down.)

5229. DanDillon - 8/17/2000 8:04:06 PM

Anne and I moved into our new house two weeks ago. It's brand new construction that we customized from an existing plan. And it's a beaut. Now that we're down to a single layer of boxes (there is no box stacked on top of any other), the end of unpacking is in sight. Amazing how we've accumulated so much stuff in such a short time. We're very comfortable here. And yes, one room has been designated "the library." A dream of mine.

5230. Ronski - 8/17/2000 8:20:45 PM

Major congratulations!

(I still have unpacked boxes from our move a year and a half ago.)

It is such a delight to be in a home you really love.

5231. arkymalarky - 8/17/2000 8:31:47 PM

Oooh, that's great, Dan! I'd love to read a description if you get time.

5232. jonesatlaw - 8/17/2000 9:08:05 PM

Dan- if you are prone to pack-ratism (I am a terminal case) you might consider this advice. If after one year in your new place you have packed boxes, take them to the Goodwill, St. Vincent dePaul or what have you and give them away. IF you are a sentimentalist like myself, you probably should look in each boz to see what it is. IF you aren't don't look at all.

5233. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:23:09 AM

Here is an American personal home page with a good concise description of surströmming. I might add that the potatos served with it are not just any old potatos but a rather small oblong variety that only grows in the north of Sweden (short growing season, much light required). They are always served unpeeled. The herrings are always served straight out of the can.

I have not been able to find any picture of the preparation process. The beheaded but ungutted herrings are put in barrels in a strong brine for a few days. The brine is then changed to a less salty one, which will allow fermentation. The barrels are left outside in the sun until the process starts. They are then stored in 15C (60F) for eight weeks before the herrings (still ungutted) are canned. The fermentation continues (at a lower rate) after canning. One has to be careful when opening so one doesn't get sprayed all over. The preferred method is to hold the can under water when puncturing it.

Here is a guy in anticipatory mode.

5234. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 7:09:39 AM

Some historical notes to go with the above.

Before the advent of pasteurization and other treatment procedures, the main methods for preserving foodstuff were salting, smoking and drying. Salting is by far the most convenient. You slaughter your pig, chop it up into pieces which you drop into a barrel of brine, and there you are.

Therefore, salt was an important, even vital commodity. Sweden has no domestic sources of salt. The nearest deposits are in Germany and Poland. From the 13th to the late 16th century, trade in the Baltic area was dominated by the Hanseatic League (the Hansa), a loose federation of mostly German cities which, while competing with each other in some respects, acted collectively when it came to trade policies and the dealing with nation states.

In the political turbulance during and following Sweden's exit in 1521 from the union with Denmark and Norway, the Hansa mainly supported Sweden and extended a lot of credit.Repayment was slow and in the 1540's the Hansa, as an encouragement to pay, sharply reduced shipments of salt.

The result was of course that prices went up. Hence the low-salt brine used to produce surströmming. A classical example of necessity turned into virtue.

The debt was eventually repaid, mostly by gold and silver seized from the church after the reformation. It all hangs together: national independence, trade policy, religious issues - and surströmming.

5235. bubbaette - 8/18/2000 8:32:34 AM

" if you are prone to pack-ratism (I am a terminal case) you might
consider this advice. If after one year in your new place you have
packed boxes, take them to the Goodwill, St. Vincent dePaul or what
have you and give them away. "

Good advice. I have a whole room full of stuff that we dragged down from the attic when the new blower for our heat pump was installed. Some of them are boxes that haven't been unpacked since two moves ago.
Most of it's going to the Salvation but I still feel compelled to pick through it.

5236. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 8:46:32 AM

Ronski

We eat herring the year around. My wife and I often have a soft-boiled egg and a small portion of pickled herring for Sunday breakfast. The "herring table" is an essential part of the smorgasbord.

If any day is specifically associated with herring, it is Midsummer's Eve. A typical lunch or early dinner, preferrably served in the open, is pickled herring with sour cream, chives and new potatoes followed by strawberries and fresh cream. It is essential that the potatoes and strawberries are Swedish and not grown in a greenhouse. Some years they are not available because of cold weather.

5237. DanDillon - 8/18/2000 10:43:22 AM

Before I moved from Chicago, I dumped a bunch of clothes and other assorted useables at a church down the street from my apartment. I had no real affiliation with the church, except I did cast my ballot for Bill Clinton there in 1996. I'm a strong believer in donating whatever has become superfluous. Moving is clearly the most propitious time for making such donations.

5238. glendajean - 8/18/2000 10:46:21 AM

What's the old saying, three moves is the equivalent of one good fire.

Dan -- do give us a description (I think Arky first asked). I'm curious about your library. How do you organize your books. Are the shelves built in or detached?

Pelle -- thank you for the update on the herrings. There is a tiny Norweigian town in my home county in Texas that has a pickled herring festival once a year. The place is called Cranfill Gap.

5239. DanDillon - 8/18/2000 11:20:45 AM

One of the things I'm looking forward to most is setting up the library. The shelves I bought are sturdy oak, and they are not built-ins. (The "library" has attached to it a full bathroom and a walk-in closet, so I wanted to maintain the room's versatility.) As it stands now, I have two full sets of shelves--one large center piece and two narrower, slightly shorter pieces--which house the books I use often. I also have a small book trough that cradles books on their front and bottom. My most prized possessions are held in that.

I also plan to have books in each bedroom of the house, appropriate to its occupant.

5240. glendajean - 8/18/2000 11:37:51 AM

How do you organize them? Non-fiction/fiction, subject matter, author?

5241. glendajean - 8/18/2000 11:38:24 AM

And what are your most prized possessions that are in the book cradle?

5242. Ronski - 8/18/2000 11:46:37 AM

Does the library have a day bed for guests (or naps)? That's what we're planning.

5243. theDiva - 8/18/2000 12:02:05 PM

No nursery?


(pry, pry, pry.......)

5244. janjon - 8/18/2000 12:08:00 PM

I have not been able to find any picture of the preparation process. The beheaded but ungutted herrings are put in barrels in a strong brine for a few days. The brine is then changed to a less salty one, which will allow fermentation. The barrels are left outside in the sun until the process starts. They are then stored in 15C (60F) for eight weeks before the herrings (still ungutted) are canned. The fermentation continues (at a lower rate) after canning. One has to be careful when opening so one doesn't get sprayed all over. The preferred method is to hold the can under water when puncturing it.

Ye Gods. The only thing I can think of to say is that I certainly hope that those poor herring are very finicky eaters.

I can understand the logic of "ungutted" in that in no doubt, um, both accelerates and adds, um um, character to the fermentation process.

But....

5245. marjoribanks - 8/18/2000 12:54:23 PM

The question from Diva is the most relevant, Dan. A spilling-over library is fine until it gets crowded out in favor of an exersaucer.



I'm now racking some books two deep.

5246. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 1:14:50 PM

I love to see how people display their books. I am very wild in my bookcases and put things together to amuse myself: I put Gore Vidal next to William F. Buckley, for instance, and I've grouped John Updike with John Cheever because they seemed to sort of be in competition with each other. I put Carl Sagan next to Carlos Castenada and Anais Nin next to Jane Austen.

5247. Thoughtful - 8/18/2000 1:20:02 PM

Dan, congrats on the house! You must tell us more. We are looking into such a thing. How long did it take to build? Did you go with a local contractor? General contractor? Do much work yourself? Tell us more -- a most exciting project!

5248. Thoughtful - 8/18/2000 1:25:09 PM

ronski & glendaj, thanks for the plant info -- I'll look into it some more. Gotta get on the stick and design the top of that rock garden before the winter winds blow.

5249. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:23:21 PM

We have our library in one half of the living area which is rather large -400 sq ft - by Swedish standards. It is basically organised in fiction and non-fiction. Last time I re-organized, I did the non-fiction in a new ingenious scheme. Trouble is I have forgotten its basic principles so I have a hell of a job to find any given book.

5250. janjon - 8/18/2000 2:27:56 PM

its the herring, Pelle.

5251. glendajean - 8/18/2000 2:29:16 PM

Pelle -- I sympathize. Since I moved last December, I still have no idea where all my books are located. I've usually kept my books in one room, but here they are in four different areas.

I keep my fiction separate, and all the novels are alphabetized by author. Everything else is subject matter (e.g., bios, memoirs & letters, histories, etc.)

5252. Thoughtful - 8/18/2000 2:35:21 PM

Wow! You guys are so organized. I have inherited a ton of books from my father-in-law -- mostly classics. He had shelves filled in his apartment in the city and we have more from the country house. We've moved some, but many remain unpacked. How are they organized? He had them organized by subject matter -- all the mysteries were together, all the fables and children's stories together, all the historical novels together, etc. How are they organized now? Easy! By which book fits on which shelf! The tall ones on the bottom, the short ones on the top!

5253. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:40:34 PM

janjon

You may well beright, Fermentation may be contagious. My official excuse is that I re-organised (and did it a bit hastily) just before I went to Mocambique for six weeks where I had to think about a lot of other things.


glenda

I too have the non-fiction by subject matter. Trouble is the matters overlap. For example, I have a bio section and a Middle East section. When I re-organised I apparently decided to expand the ME part to cover all ME stuff so the bios of Nasser, Assad and Arafat went there.

5254. DanDillon - 8/18/2000 10:23:57 PM

glendajean,
Once I get around to it, I'll organize my books by genre and by author. Anne plans on making small placecards denoting each section ("travel," "essays," "fiction," "historical fiction" "biography," etc.). In my book trough, or cradle as you call it, I have several signed first eds., an early ed. of Whitman's Leaves of Grass, beautifully restored and rebound copies of Addison's Spectator essays, a display copy of the complete Shakespeare (a staple, the flour of any collection), an odd little treasure called How to Speak Cat just for fun, and a few other works that quicken my breath every time I merely glance at them.

Ronski,
No day bed. We'll have two comfortable leather reading chairs and a shared table and ottoman. Nothing extravagant. Function over form.

Deev,
The nursery will come. All in good time, all in good time. We're probably looking at a couple of years yet....

Thoughtful™,
The house took exactly 7 months from contract to close. We were blessed with fair weather, and even more importantly, an exceptional builder. Some of the subcontractors he used were a bit slow, or they didn't get it right the first time, but such things are par for the course, I think. We established our close date the day we wrote the contract and we ended up closing only one week late. And our builder kept us apprised of every little delay so nothing came as a surprise. I did none of the manual labor myself--I'm simply not handy--but, as I mentioned earlier, Anne and I customized the existing plan a great deal. I came out to the construction site every single day to make sure everything in our conception of the house was being put in place. (An occasional case of beer for certain subs didn't hurt either.) I highly recommend the experience. It's quite rewarding to live in a space you've designed and watched be built from the soil on up.

5255. Thoughtful - 8/21/2000 2:37:12 PM

Dan, thanks for the insight. Yesterday hubby and I were sitting on the land discussing the approximate lay out and decided it would definitely be a good thing to start a house soon -- maybe by next spring. I know our schedule will open up soon as, by Sept. 30....

Hubby is Retiring!!! Hooray!!!

I've always wanted a "House Spouse" and now I'll finally have one! Can't Wait!

5256. marshame - 8/22/2000 3:57:54 PM

I have one bedroom with a wonderful floor-to-ceiling paladin window, and I decided that this would be my library/study. I painted it red and hung red and gold paisley curtaibs and put down a dark turkish rug and old gold mirrors and sconces on the walls. It is a neat, neat room! I call it "the red room" because your definite impression of the room is its color!




Judith

I have a blue Roseville water lily vase and a green apple blossom jardiniere. In Hull, I have vases in magnolia, wild flower, open rose and sueno tulip. I have assorted pieces of Camark, Abingdon, Van Briggle and McCoy.

I love the Roseville best, and would like to build that collection. I met a dealer at the Buchannan's show in Dallas this past week who says they have a good collection in their shop in Benbrook, so I may take a field trip out in that direction one of these week-ends when it cools down a bit.

5257. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2000 4:09:01 PM

marsha:

If you get that far, go down to Burleson and in the showcase room, dealer #44 has an extensive collection of Roseville. She may still be in the Benbrook mall, too. Her name is Rose Chandler. She bought a collection 2 years ago for $10,000...has some of it left. Burleson Mall is funky but they have some great stuff, and the prices are way low because rent is.

I have a dusty pink Bleeding Heart jardiniere by Roseville and a Hull Parchment & Pine basket...had a chance to get matching candlesticks for the basket and have been kicking myself for missing that one ever since! I also have a small pink and grey Hull basket; the P&P is huge, over 18". I have some McCoy and a small collection of white stylized deer in the deco tradition.

Your stuff sounds really nice; I love the Art Pottery of that time period.

5258. marshame - 8/22/2000 4:21:35 PM

Jude

Okay, you're talking me into it! Burleson will be added to the trip!

When I won an auction on a piece of Hull (probably because I inadvertantly bid $20 more than the piece was worth, thinking it was a different piece!!!) I was contacted via e-mail by someone who has a collection of Hull she is trying to dispose of. She has a parchment and pine tea pot, sugar and creamer. Would you like her e-mail address? Or I could just forward her e-mail to me, to you at your public address.

There is a fabulous collection of Roseville at the Forestwood Antique Mall at Forest and the Dallas North Tollway in Dallas. We are talking three, four, five pieces (large pieces) of the same pattern and color such as blue pine cone, blackberry, and some I've never even seen in books. Absolutely stunning! It is priced quite high, though. But is it beautiful! I wonder if it isn't so high so that he/she doesn't really have to sell it!

The Benbrook dealer told me to beware that there are many fake Hulls out these days.

5259. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 4:33:08 PM

Halp Halp! Is there a tree doctor in the house?

Yesterday during lunch my wife was looking out the window, and noticed a hole in the landscape. A liquid ambar that we planted down by the stream about six years ago was completely keeled over. It has basically broken off, less than a foot from the base. I suspect the horses pushed it over, they love scratching on trees. In any case, it's just hanging on to the stump by a sort of hinge, about a third of the bark and perhaps a quarter of the wood is intact. My opinion is that it's all over, but perhaps we can save it? I have pruned off most of the foliage, and we thought we'd plaster it with tree tar and try to get it back upright and stake it, but we haven't dared yet.

Does anyone have any specialist knowledge or experience in this sort of rescue operation?

5260. glendajean - 8/22/2000 4:36:31 PM

Alistair -- I don't know about that particular tree, but in general, I'd say your tree is gone. Even if it recovered, it would never have its full strength (and trunk). If you plant another tree, you might put a small fence around it until it is strong enough to withstand the horses. I know people who do that in the hill country of Texas to protect young striplings from deer who like to rub against the trees.

5261. Thoughtful - 8/22/2000 4:39:37 PM

When we bought the house, previous owner left some yellow flower pots behind -- not especially fond of the color, I was ready to toss them until I looked at the bottom and saw McCoy on it. Not my kind of stuff, but I suppose someone will want them sometime.

5262. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 4:39:54 PM

Yeah, we had a token fence around it with electric-fence ribbon, on the theory that they are scared of the ribbon and don't know it's not electrified. Next time we'll build something really solid.

Ahck. I loved that tree.

5263. janjon - 8/22/2000 4:40:03 PM

Alistair. Cut it down, let it cure a bit, and then have a special night at the fireplace.

5264. Ronski - 8/22/2000 4:40:19 PM

The repair scheme doesn't sound promising. But if it has been growing there for six years, if you seal the wound I imagine next year you will have new shoots from the base, which you can trim to one or two strong ones. It will be several years before you get anything resembling the tree as it was, but that's probably better than trying to find a tree that size to replace it with.

I'm no expert on this sort of thing, I must add.

5265. janjon - 8/22/2000 4:41:19 PM

Indeed, thoughtful, indeed.

5266. Thoughtful - 8/22/2000 4:41:19 PM

Connor, it's a goner -- sounds like far too much damage. Time to dig up and replant.

5267. prolph - 8/22/2000 4:42:03 PM

I have been silenttly lurking while I trudge the slow learning curve at ny computer. This week I will disconnect here (here beibg web tv) even though I haven'yet acceassed the Mote. Antvody got the url?
I think the best bet would be for Diva to come live with mr for a while although I am beginning to believe that there is a gestation taking place.

5268. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 4:44:18 PM

Pelle : Today is the third Thursday of August, a day of some importance around here, especially in the north, because it marks the release of this year's crop of rotten herring.

Sounds like the Beaujolais Nouveau... third Thursday of November if I remember correctly... you Herringistas should promote your Herring Day internationally, perhaps it'll gain snob value.

So how is this year's herring vintage? Good colour? Delicate bouquet? Hints of cherry and redcurrant?

5269. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 4:48:18 PM

Patsy ! I must say, after I put in quite a bit of work to get the Mote working with webTV, I was bitterly disappointed that you disappeared from view... if you need any little technical hints, drop me a line at tech@themote.com

5270. glendajean - 8/22/2000 4:49:15 PM

Patsy -- the url is www.themote.com

Glad you're still participating.

5271. glendajean - 8/22/2000 4:49:50 PM

Oops, sorry Alistair

5272. theDiva - 8/22/2000 4:52:00 PM

Patsy!

Gosh, I'd love to! Wouldn't we have a grand time?! But Greg and Gracie might miss me.

5273. Thoughtful - 8/22/2000 4:55:27 PM

patsy! So glad to see you hanging in there. Keep on keepin' on, gal!

5274. prolph - 8/23/2000 12:07:22 AM

Thank you all
Diba I don't see why Gracie and Greg can't come too.
Connor, all your work was much appteciated but it's my eyesight that iasn't working so well.
I shall be right back from mibdspringYhe url wotked and I just need to log on properly, sorry about the it probably would come back from thr
base. Assuming it is not a graft.

5275. Ronski - 8/23/2000 11:57:53 AM

Can you describe the herring as having a good nose, since they cut the heads off?

5276. Ronski - 8/23/2000 1:55:01 PM

BTW, eight tenths of an inch of snow fell on Mt. Washington in New Hampshire over the weekend.

5277. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:15:37 AM

GAYS RULE!

5278. glendajean - 8/24/2000 11:21:53 AM

We weed, too.

I am wading in tomatoes and it is wonderful. Delightful, tasty cherry ts, big fatted ones. That burst of flavor, so fleeting.

5279. Ronski - 8/24/2000 11:28:27 AM

And we cook.

Last night, I turned a store-bought "marinara" sauce into real marinara sauce by adding a healthy squeeze of anchovy paste (marinara does refer to the sea, after all, and not to tomatoes, garlic, and basil). Try this. It does not taste fishy (unless you overdo it with the paste), just deeper and more complex.

It was delicious, with rollatini, and thinly sliced crookneck squash sauteed with sweet red bell pepper, cayenne, black pepper, ginger, and nutmeg.

5280. theDiva - 8/24/2000 11:58:24 AM

That sounds sooooo good.

You are just shameless, Ronski, coming in here with these fabulous descriptions.

5281. Thoughtful - 8/24/2000 12:18:11 PM

Our tomatoes are still fairly few given the incredible rain we've had all summer. But I did make pesto the other night with our basil and garlic. Yum! The one I make has less oil than most so it's not quite so "rock in your stomach" as some can be. But basil with pignoli nuts and parmesan packs a wonderful flavor.

5282. glendajean - 8/24/2000 12:40:59 PM

Thoughtful -- in our pesto, we substituted walnuts for pine nuts -- I think my boyfriend read that in Cook's Bible, the book put out by the editor of Cook's Illustrated.

5283. Ronski - 8/24/2000 12:44:33 PM

The other night by partner (using a combo of pine nuts and walnuts) cooked them a little darker than usual (I will avoid using pejorative verbs like "burn"), and guess what? It made delicious pesto nevertheless, decidely different than usual, but with a smokey, deeper taste that was quite good. It was served on orrechio and broccoli.

5284. glendajean - 8/24/2000 12:47:55 PM

Walnuts burn quite fast. You really have to watch it.

5285. theDiva - 8/24/2000 12:49:31 PM

(lurking, inhaling meatball parmigiana sub)

5286. Thoughtful - 8/25/2000 9:46:27 AM

It is incredible how toasting brings out the flavor in the nuts. Walnuts do sound wonderful in the mix.

Once I was making pesto early in the season and didn't have quite enough basil so I added a bunch of fresh parsley and that was different yet quite delicious too. I understand parsley really packs a punch of Vit. C so it's very nutritious.

5287. grannypatsy - 8/25/2000 9:32:27 PM

Gee I wanted to restore myself as a motie so I changed my name. I am actuslly the artist previously known as Patsyrolph Now I can post at will. This is not meant a a thteat.

5288. arkymalarky - 8/25/2000 9:44:43 PM

Hey Patsy! Good to see you! If it's not a threat, then I hope it's a promise!

5289. DanDillon - 8/25/2000 9:47:50 PM

I love my home. Anne is in the other room banging nails gently into the wall to hang pictures and framed photos. It's feeling better every day. There is a togetherness here that goes unremarked but is nothing shy of remarkable.

5290. Thoughtful - 8/28/2000 9:14:38 AM

Dan, did you ever consider a manufactured house? Hubby and I are betwixt and between on a lot of the house building issues and that's a key one....manufactured having the advantage of being more sturdily built as it has to be mobile, built in a factory so it's not exposed to weather, speed as it takes about 6 weeks from start to finish, and square as everything is done with jigs. The biggest drawback in my book is that you can't live with the house as it's going up to make changes as you see them become necessary. Another drawback is getting contractors in who are happy with what becomes a very small job --plugging the house into the foundation -- plumbing, electrical etc. Also, I don't think site design is a focus which is important in our case as the house will be on the top of a hill sloping down into a wetlands area which is highly regulated.

5291. Thoughtful - 8/28/2000 9:15:57 AM

Finally got a chance to move the irises yesterday and hope they do ok. We got some weeding done in the top of the rock garden, but it's a real mess -- the whole thing needs to get dug up and replanted, but I have to design it first and digging is going to be a real mess with all the maple roots running through there....definitely a project that will keep us busy into the fall.

5292. PelleNilsson - 8/29/2000 4:21:39 AM

A nice recipe for haggis, should you feel so inclined:

1 cleaned sheep or lamb's stomach bag
2 lb. dry oatmeal
1 lb chopped mutton suet
1 lb lamb's liver, boiled and minced
1 pint (2 cups) stock
the heart and lights of the sheep, boiled and minced
1 large chopped onion
1/2 tsp.. each: cayenne pepper, Jamaica pepper, salt and pepper

Toast the oatmeal slowly until it is crisp, then mix all the ingredients (except the stomach bag) together, and add the stock. Fill the bag just over half full, press out the
air and sew up securely. Have ready a large pot of boiling water, prick the haggis all over with a large needle so it does not burst and boil slowly for 4 to 5 hours.
Serves 12.

5293. marshame - 8/29/2000 8:20:20 AM

What, I dare ask, are the lights of a sheep? Haggis sounds, well, it sounds right up there with poi, only with organs.

5294. PelleNilsson - 8/29/2000 8:50:40 AM

I have reason to believe that lights=lungs.

5295. Thoughtful - 8/29/2000 9:24:01 AM

Sorry Pelle, but in my house, that recipe would serve a lot more than 12 --can't think of anyone who'd want any of it.
Blecch.

I barely tolerate an occasional lamb chop....

5296. theDiva - 8/29/2000 9:33:11 AM

Pelle

All I can say is, thank God I don't suffer from morning sickness. Yuck.

5297. PelleNilsson - 8/29/2000 9:40:34 AM

To avoid any misunderstanding: this has nothing to do with Sweden. Haggis is the Scottish national dish. If you cast a glance in Stories and Poetry, you will understand how that recipe ended up here.

5298. theDiva - 8/29/2000 9:44:20 AM

well, yeah. Still.

5299. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:27:23 AM

We have become true midwesterners. My partner bought an electric smoker about a month ago. (He read in the NY Times that electric ones, with a pan of water inside, offer the most consistent heat and continually moist environment for smoking). His first brisket was ok, but really kind of tough.

Our neighbor, who is also from Texas, a retired military officer who has devoted his life to smoking meats, has been coaching my partner. On Sunday, he smoked the brisket for 12 hours, mopping it with some mixture once an hour -- I know it had garlic and chopped onions, because I chopped them.

Lord, was it good brisket. It almost crumbled when one poked it with a knife or fork. Supposedly the key is length of time, getting the internal heat over 180 degrees (F). Somewhere between 180 and 190,the meat breaks. Who knew?

5300. theDiva - 8/29/2000 10:37:35 AM

oh my God.

I think I need one of those. Are they expensive?

5301. JudithAtHome - 8/29/2000 10:47:48 AM

In the winter, I make brisket in my oven, on low heat. Cooked for about 7 hours in a turkey roaster with half a fifth of red wine and seasonings, it is fall apart tender and utterly delicious.

Plus the house stays warm....

5302. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:48:23 AM

He paid about $60 at Lowes. Probably cheaper now because they are doing summer clearance.

5303. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:50:38 AM

Juditha -- our neighbor says that when he has to cut short the smoking time, he ends up wrapping it tightly in foil and putting it in the oven (set at 350 degress, I think). As soon as the meat hits 190, he pulls it out. Of course, it has been in the smoker long enough to be smoked when he does that.

Diva -- there are all kinds of recipe books on smoking. My partner's book is called "Smoke and Spice."

5304. theDiva - 8/29/2000 10:54:21 AM

oh man. Now I want some brisket.

5305. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:57:27 AM

We also made potato salad using his dad's recipe. But his dad refuses to use red potatoes. "The Cooks Bible" says that red potatoes are best for potato salad, so followed the book's advice. It was delicious, too.

The brisket was so good, I thought about it all day at work yesterday. We had it again for supper last night.

5306. theDiva - 8/29/2000 10:58:16 AM

sob

5307. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:02:08 AM

There, there, dear. It's ok. Think of ... England.

5308. theDiva - 8/29/2000 11:07:50 AM

that only works with Niner.

5309. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:10:54 AM

And he's been usurped by Jackie V

5310. theDiva - 8/29/2000 11:12:10 AM

Never!

5311. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:53:05 AM

I am almost finished with the site plan for my customer's garden.

Little trick I learned a few years in measuring (NOTE: this is from a math illiterate that struggles in measuring).

Structures. Make baseline measurements of each side. In other words, one corner is 0. At 3 feet, a window starts. The other side of the window is at 7 feet. The porch is at 11 feet. All the way across. Much easier than dividing each segment into separate measurements.

Triangulation. This answers the question how to plot out a tree or shrub out there in the middle of the yard.

Since the structure or house has known measurements, (you get a survey of it, btw, when you buy the house), label each corner a letter from the alphabet. To make this simple, the left corner is A and the right corner is B. Number all the trees, shrubs or other structures out in the yard. Big maple tree in the left center is 1. Measure the distance between A and 1 and record it A to 1 = n ft. Do the same between B and 1 and record. When you are drawing your plan, widen your compass the length between A and 1. Place the compass point on A and the draw an arc in the vicinity of 1. Do the same with the measurement from B. The arcs of A and B intersect at the location of 1.

In the past, I've always used a scale of 1/4" = 1', but for large yards, I use 1" = 10' or 20'. You can easily buy architectural or engineering scales (3-sided plastic rulers set to a variety of scales) at any office or art supply store.

5312. glendajean - 8/30/2000 5:19:53 PM

Uh, oh. The next Martha Stewart?

Isn't one MS enough?

5313. PelleNilsson - 9/3/2000 4:38:45 PM

CalGal in International:

I don't think there's any doubt that sausages started in Europe. But we're talking about 'murrican hotdogs.

I think almost everything started in Europe. Why, for example, are hamburgers called hamburgers? The only fast food I can think of that's American is Kentucky Fried Chicken, but then I don't know everything.

5314. arkymalarky - 9/3/2000 6:39:56 PM

Hey! What do you mean American? Fried chicken is a product of the Confederacy!

5315. glendajean - 9/4/2000 10:40:28 AM

Pizza. Nachos. Both American.

5316. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 11:07:15 AM

gelenda

Re # 5311. When I get home in about two hours I'll describe a simple method for measuring the height of a slope.

5317. CalGal - 9/4/2000 11:24:33 AM

Hell, even the margarita is American.

Pizza actually was invented in Naples, I think--or wherever the word Neapolitan started from. But adding cheese--which really is what pizza is about--was American.

And I thought hotdogs were invented in America--Chicago, according to the Ebert piece, and that's probably true.

5318. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 1:25:03 PM

Adding cheese was certainly not an American idea, see Mama's Pizza History.

5319. CalGal - 9/4/2000 1:28:20 PM

Well, shoot. I've just been careless all round this weekend, and Roger Ebert was wrong--or maybe he was just joshing. Anton Feuchtwanger invented hotdog buns. And the distinctive flavor of the american hotdog still hasn't been explained satisfactorily to me after two days of research.

But that bit about pizza sounds wrong, still. I'll have to check up and see where my wires got crossed.

5320. CalGal - 9/4/2000 1:35:33 PM

History of Pizza.

Okay, I see what I got screwed up. It was the Neapolitan pizza that started the use of cheese. It was the Americans who popularized pizza, and that was due to Neapolitan immigrants.

5321. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 1:51:39 PM

No, CalGal, your Americo-centrism leads you wrong again. The Americans did not popularize pizza, at least not here in Europe. The Italians did that all by themselves. In Sweden, pizza appeared in the 60's when some of the Italian's who came here to work in heavy industry had saved enough money to open restaurants. Besides, that peculiar American variant, the pan pizza, has never taken here and I suspect not in the rest of Europe either.

5322. CalGal - 9/4/2000 2:02:53 PM

Pelle,

Do you mean the 1860s or the 1960s? If you mean the 1960s, then I think you are wrong. The Italians who moved to Sweden to open pizza stores probably did so because of its success in America, following their successful model. If pizza was known world wide, it was because of its American popularity, not because it was from Italy.

I would guess that the Italian immigrants who popularized pizza in Europe came from a different region? Either that or they tried the Neopolitan style first and moved onto other regional variations. It'd be interesting to find out which it was.

Incidentally, it's not Ameri-centrism that causes me to say this. Americans, because of their sheer numbers, popularize a lot of things that came originally from other countries. I imagine that a good many Africans think pizza is American, for example.

5323. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 2:11:43 PM

CalGal

On a dour note: I don't really appreciate you lecturing me on what happened in Sweden in the 1960's. I was there, remember? The Italians opened these restaurants to cater to their countrymen's taste but Swedes turned up too because at the time, Italy was the most popular tourist destination and they had become exposed to pizza there.

5324. CalGal - 9/4/2000 2:17:42 PM

I wasn't lecturing you on what happened in the 60s. I was speculating based on the information you provided, and betting on likelihoods. You then provided more information that you apparently think clobbers my argument. Alas. But if you provide a link explaining that the Italians who went to Sweden had no thought of emulating their cousins' successful American model, I will happily defer.

I suppose the next thing we'd have to debate is a definition of the word "popularized".

5325. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 2:36:38 PM

Let us not take this too far. Let us instead consider how to measure the height difference between any two points on a sloping piece of land.

You need a measuring stick, a plank and a water-level.

Place the stick vertically at the lowest point.

Place one end of the plank further up the slope, but let the other end be in contact with the stick.

Put the water-level on the plank and adjust its stick end so that it is perfectly horizontal.

Read off the measure on the stick and write it down.

Put the stick where the plank rests on the ground and move the plank further up the slope.

Repeat this until you reach the highest point and then add the measures together.

It's easiest if two persons cooperate.

5326. grannypatsy - 9/4/2000 3:53:38 PM

Gee, I had no idea pizza was so intyeresting. We were ordering pizza before the 5o's and the consensus was that it was brought vback from europe with returning military folks. My question is who cares?

I have gathered the impression that Pelle is going to Afroca'.Going to Africa is a prime example for me that there is something gor everyone.As we know, I am a shadow chaser(I really like total solar eclipses). The last tolal so;ar eclipse of thje 2nd millenium was clearest over the Black Aea so I went thewre. The first total solart eclipse of the 3rd millenium will be in June oif 01 and best seen from Afica. Many safaris are being offered. I don/t want to attend a safari. Aha, there is a cargo ship which departs from Cardiff amd emds at Capetown, standing off StGelena of the eclipses, This will take a month and I've got a reservation.

5327. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 4:16:47 PM

Patsy

No, I'm not going to Africa (as far as I know, things can change quickly in my job). I was in Africa (Mozambique) at this time a year ago. The last Motie to go there (Kenya)is dusty who came back only a week ago. You've been away so you might know hime better as FreeToChoose.

That's a lovely trip you are planning. I've always wanted to go somewhere on a cargo ship but I'm afraid I'd swell to double normal size due to the nice food they are reputed to serve.

5328. alistairconnor - 9/4/2000 4:24:56 PM

Hey Patsy, can you get good pizza in Escondido?


Cal, your Americanocentrism is so caricatural that it's almost a shame to deflate it...

You know, geographically speaking, it isn't necessary to pass through America when going from Italy to the rest of Europe...

But rest assured, there are Pizza Huts, or equivalent, in France, making American pizzas. There are also "authentic" Italian pizzerias of various regional varieties. But most French pizzerias make a French adaptation of the pizza.

5329. SnowOwl - 9/4/2000 4:26:08 PM

On my last trip on a cargo ship they ran out of food, other than broad beans and sausages. We were offered broad beans and sausages at every meal for about 4 days before we finally docked in Palermo, whereupon we all gorged ourselves on fresh fruit and gelato and ended up with the Italian version of Delhi belly.

5330. alistairconnor - 9/4/2000 4:32:55 PM

Hey Snow, glad to see you coming out of the woodwork... I forgot to ask you for those tomato seeds. Next year perhaps. We've got tomatoes at the moment, not a bad year for them, though rather a wet summer.

5331. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 4:37:55 PM

SnowOwl

Shocking. I hope they didn't run out of booze as well.

5332. dusty - 9/4/2000 4:49:23 PM

grannypatsy

Why no interest in a safari? I just returned from one, and enjoyed it more than I expected.

Pelle was close in his description, but I was in Tanzania, not Kenya.

I did get my first glimpse of the Southern Cross, but no eclipses, despite the fact that Africa is getting eclipses in back-to-back yyears, if I recall correctly.

5333. PelleNilsson - 9/4/2000 4:55:08 PM

dusty

You mentioned Kilimanjaro and Serengeti. That's why I assumed Kenya where the tourist trade is more developed and, people say, things are more organised. I've done some modest touristing in Tanzania when on business trips and I thought things worked out pretty well, but then I'm used to thirld world countries.

5334. SnowOwl - 9/4/2000 5:02:54 PM

Alistair

Last summer was lousy for tomatoes. I got very few ripened. I'm hoping for better things this year, but we seem to be following the same weather pattern - an exceptionally mild winter up until now, but we are now into our 12th day of ceaseless rain. I hope the mild winter doesn't mean we're in for another lousy summer. If so, I'm planning a move to warmer climes.

Pelle

I think they would have run out of fuel oil before they ran out of booze. Once we got sick of broad beans and sausages it was the only sustenance we had.

5335. grannypatsy - 9/4/2000 5:06:23 PM

Snow owl, lotsa reasons I don't wabt to be ona safari. Age is one but I don't like bugs abd general unrest.
glaan you enjoyed it.


Snow Owl, lotsa reasons I don't want to be on safari.Age is one. glad you enjoyed it. My first view of the southern cross was from
australia, I suppose it will reappear when we're south of the equator.

Your mwnu aboard a carfo ship is noit enticing but perhaps I will loose weight. This ship is HMS Saint Helena and is still in service at royal command;Saint Helena has no airport'

Alistar of course we have good pizza in escondido. I like Papa John's for delivery but there are a variety of wood fired establishments that are tasty.

5336. CalGal - 9/4/2000 5:19:25 PM

Alistair,

That whizzing noise you hear is the sound of the point going right over your head.

But then, anyone who thinks that Pizza Hut is an example of the way that pizza became popularized really ought to excuse himself from the conversation.

5337. glendajean - 9/5/2000 11:28:13 AM

Looks like I started a Pizza war. It's a bit ironic because when I mentioned pizza as an American dish, it was because it is often listed as one of those foods that American think of as from another country, but is actually American. We think we're eating ethnic food and we're really eating food made palatable for Americans.

BTW, reminds me of a movie I've plugged before, Big Night. A wonderful story about about 1950s Italian brothers trying to create an authentic Italian restaurant in NYC but up against the red and white checkered table cloth "we serve spaghetti" kind of Italian restuarant that was prevalent in that time. Much like the lovely Babbette's Feast,, an entire movie about making one meal. Be prepared to be hungry after it's over.

Pelle -- thanks for the slope measuring suggestion. I've read something similar and just need to practice doing it.

5338. Ronski - 9/5/2000 12:07:35 PM

49 degrees F. this morning.

5339. Thoughtful - 9/5/2000 12:40:59 PM

I don't vouch for the source, but it makes for an interesting read...
Pizza History.

5340. Ronski - 9/5/2000 1:26:23 PM

Nice link. The best pizza I ever had was made in a restaurant where I (mostly) grew up, in Westchester County, NY. The patriarch of a local politically connected (GOP) family ran the place until he retired. The ambiance was as simple as could be, and you could see the dough being h