The Mote Archive - The Good Life

The Good Life

pt. 3

10523. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 2:56:33 PM

OOps.

10524. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 2:57:31 PM

The classic rose is that from Portugal in the earthenware-like jug - and I forget the name right now. For most of those in my generation it was our first taste of wine and thankfully left behind after that first unhooked brassiere on the way to heaven.

Rather than rose why not something mixed with soda water? I've got a Japanese Ume-plum liqueur called CHOYA Umeshu-Dento Herb to be mixed with soda water as you prefer - meaning, wine is not strictly necessary for every meal or occasion.

10525. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 2:59:47 PM

Tell that to the French one, scottso. Wine is de riguer with every meal, but that does sound refreshing. Rosé gives me a headache.

And, of course, who can forget the humiliating american name for it- --- BLUSH.

I don't think I have the balls to roder it in pulic.

10526. Jenerator - 8/14/2001 3:03:25 PM

thoughtful,

She's no doubt the savage and intuitive business woman, and I respect her for being able to build such an immense OmniEmpire. To me, she is a cut throat and I do agree with Child's statement that she wishes Stewart gave credit where credit was due instead of "always appearing as to have invented everything on her own."

Joan Didion says, "The outrage, which reaches sometimes startling levels, centers on the misconception that she has somehow tricked her admirers into not noticing the ambition that brought her to their attention. To her critics, she seems to represent a fraud to be exposed, a wrong to be righted."

Stewart's response was "Bullshit!"

I don't love her or hate her, I'm more curious than anything else.

10527. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 3:06:20 PM

Lancers.

10528. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 3:08:54 PM

Webfeet, it would seem that the world holds more variety than even the French in their cosmopolitan smugness dare to concede. Yes, not all food is made for French wines nor is a soul uplifted only by vin alone even if it be vintage.

10529. Wombat - 8/14/2001 3:09:23 PM

Make a Kir. Or better, a Kir Royale.

10530. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 3:09:43 PM

Thanks to JudithAtHome, the notorious rose of the American palate is Lancers.

10531. Jenerator - 8/14/2001 3:09:49 PM

webfeet,

In this article she discusses her catering business that she began with. Almost with anger, she defends herself saying that no one understands what that business was like. She made everything (from the croissants to the wine) and didn't option out for store bought anything when the big named caterers went to the market for items such as baguettes.

She may have a legion of cooks and gardeners to help her, but I'm convinced that everything is based on her and her ideas alone.

What thoughtful says about her is a shame. Cheap and rich make the worst combination in a person.

Thoughtful,

Oprah, one of Martha's fans ad friends, spends $300 a week on each of her dogs giving them massages. No doubt that money could be spent on one of the chairities she promotes like the angel network.

10532. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 3:10:31 PM

I don't like champagne.

10533. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 3:12:22 PM

And don't forget Mateus, Scott...

10534. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 3:13:07 PM

For what's it's worth I doubt many heterosexual males would enjoy being married to Martha Stewart. Within a short week I'd find myself rummaging through the cutlery for a short, sharp knife to manage her once and for all.

10535. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 3:14:10 PM

JudithAtHome, you're making me ill. Not having had a rose for more than 30 years the very memory of the stuff still makes me pukey.

10536. Jenerator - 8/14/2001 3:14:20 PM

She's 60, did you know that?

10537. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 3:15:19 PM

There is an apero over there in the pays of the smug, that is just a kir, sans chamnpagne. It was like a porto but perhaps more tart. It tasted slightly like flowers if I remember.

We went through a kir phase, though, good champagne gets a little steep on the budget for thoseof us who are saving for a nest.
But--wait a minute scott, how could you not like champagne?

10538. Jenerator - 8/14/2001 3:16:26 PM

Webfeet,

Do you ever watch Dr. Phil McGraw on Oprah (every Tuesday)? I'm not a huge fan of Oprah, I find her incredibly conceited, But I LOVE this guy. Even my husband will watch when he's on!

10539. Wombat - 8/14/2001 3:17:15 PM

Martha kept her husband's name after a spectacularly bitter divorce. Guess it beat resuming her Polish maiden name. "Entertaining with Martha Pljoskja"--or whatever her name was-- doesn't have the same cachet.

10540. Jenerator - 8/14/2001 3:17:19 PM

I love champagne.

10541. Jenerator - 8/14/2001 3:18:43 PM

Wombat, she said essentially the same thing, and it's Kostyra. She's Polish.

10542. Wombat - 8/14/2001 3:20:59 PM

Heh heh, Boone's Farm Apple Wine or Strawberry Hill; Taylor Cold Duck (avec un buchon plastique); Wild Irish Rose...ah youth.

10543. janjon - 8/14/2001 3:21:41 PM

(a) The Wall Street Journal's Friday edition always has an interesting column by their wine expert/columnists (a very hip married couple now in their late 30s I would think.) At any rate, savvy they are. And, sometime within the last month or so, they had a column about French rose wines. Approvingly. I still am not sold, but hey who said that I was savvy or hip.

(b) Martha Stewart wrote an amazing article (I think it was in the New York Times Sunday Magazine a couple of years ago about her pulling up stakes from Westport, CT and how, in her view, it was such a nasty, egotistic, unfriendly place. People I know there were amazed since in the uniform opinion of all who had encountered her here and there around town over the years, that description fit her to a T.

I think she is obsessed, driven, clearly cheap and has both a terrific staff and wonderful p.r. people.

I never knowingly buy her products.

10544. thoughtful - 8/14/2001 3:24:02 PM

Martha Kostyra. Of course it worked for Ralph Lauren too whose real name is Lipschitz. Can you imagine? Polo by Lipschitz.

10545. bubbaette - 8/14/2001 3:24:23 PM

I guess there's nothing wrong with Martha Stewart if you like that sort of thing. But I think it's a matter of where and how you choose to spend your time and money. No doubt a christmas garland of hand-gilded pinecones and dried magnolia leaves would be just spiffy. But those handy dandy instructions don't really clue you in that you'll need about 40 hours to construct it and it won't look like the model on t.v., and that you don't have any of the supplies that you need in the first place.

10546. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 3:25:36 PM

Oh wow, did anyone here ever succumb to Spañada?

10547. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 3:26:50 PM

bubbaette:

I sent you an instant message over the sea...

10548. PsychProf - 8/14/2001 3:27:28 PM

No, but I have 6 Veg-o-Matics.

10549. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 3:29:50 PM

Champagne, a hefty price to pay for bad-tasting fizz. I do not like it, and no apologies.

10550. thoughtful - 8/14/2001 3:31:35 PM

For westporters, known for their egos and snobbishness, to find someone even more snobbish is truly a feat. Of course, I think they didn't like her because she used her home as her production studio....westporters want peace and quiet in their neighborhoods, not production studios, vans, trucks, lighting, photo crews, etc. Naturally she found them nasty as they wouldn't let her have her own way and made her shell out for a new production studio on the commercial side of town. Musta just killed her to spend the extra dough. Just think...rather than getting her house decorated for the next holiday and being able to write it off as a business expense, she had to pay to have that done separately! After all, she had been charging the firm for the use of her house as a studio and once she moved, she couldn't write it off anymore. Poor baby.

10551. janjon - 8/14/2001 3:32:16 PM

Well, I must say that that surprises me, Loar.

To me, champagne is one of the most civilized parts of life.

Especially now that the French-owned California vineyards put out very good stuff at about half the price of the mediocre level of French labels.

I wound never pay for something like, say, Dom Perignon, though.

10552. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 3:32:22 PM

Boone's Farm Apple Wine. In university I used to do very bad things with parts of my Hong Kong girlfriend and Boone's Farm. Well beyond the obvious.

10553. Absensia - 8/14/2001 3:32:42 PM

Cold Duck, anyone?

10554. janjon - 8/14/2001 3:34:34 PM

Oh, the article was much more directed towards personal frailities (everyone else in Westport had them according to Martha and boy was she glad to leave to get to where there were normal people doing normal and fun things) than it was any upset over real estate usage squabbles.

It really was a mouth opener and I didn't know much about her image in that town at the time.

10555. PsychProf - 8/14/2001 3:35:06 PM

Ahh, Scott...Boone's Farm....memories. Yes, Abs...I'll have a glass.

10556. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 3:35:18 PM

I'm telling ya, Spañada was the absolute worst! It came in gallon jugs molded at the bottom to look like bunches of grapes. The bottles were cool; the wine was dreck.

10557. thoughtful - 8/14/2001 3:37:57 PM

10558. thoughtful - 8/14/2001 3:39:02 PM

forgive the double post...certainly wasn't worth the space.

10559. Absensia - 8/14/2001 3:40:02 PM

(_) Here you go, PP, no champagne glasses around...the mug will have to do!

10560. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 3:45:57 PM

Well, I thought I had a brandy snifter emoticon but it screwed up in preview.

10561. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 3:49:24 PM

I am no more interested in MS's skirmishes with the locals than I would be if it were Ted TUrner or Rupert Murdoch.

Thoughtful, I would argue that MS isn't snobbish at all but presents a very utilitarian, democratized approach to home improvement and the pursuit of the good life. I can't see what is so terrible about rousing a broad range of bored american housewives (myself excluded naturally) out of their ruts, and inspiring them to do more with their time and energy.

Is it not far better than sending them self-hating messages from magazines like Allure, Vogue and Glamour where they are told to buy 101 products boost their morales? At least they are inspired to do something positive with themselves, whether or not they live up to the standards of the magazine. And I don't even think perfection is the point.

10562. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 3:52:05 PM

Go, Webbie!

(I especially agree with the remarks about Glamour and Allure.)

10563. janjon - 8/14/2001 3:55:38 PM

the only thing of interest about her interactions with the locals is what it says about her assessment of herself and of others, and how (apparently) out of whack she is - especially about herself.

I am sure it doesn't stop her from putting out inspiring ideas about frou-frou. Enjoy.

10564. ScottLoar - 8/14/2001 3:56:15 PM

Yes, everything Webfeet says in Message # 10561 is true and as a heterosexual male I can't stand the woman (Martha Stewart, not Webfeet, whom I find beguiling).

10565. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 4:05:21 PM

ha ha ha! so endearing your are, scottso.

Seriously, it's just about being a doer, judith, rather than a neurotic little sociopath, shopping for the perfect moisturizer and outfit.

I feel genuinely satisfied after finishing one of her recipes, or after I take up some of her home improvement suggestions, or if I learn about plants--a subject I know zero about. if you can create a better aesthetic environment, if you can learn something new, than you keep the crew happy, and yourself, too.

Some of it is too precious for words--like making your own cocktail umbrellas--but it's a guide, nothing more. You take from it what you need.

10566. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 4:09:07 PM

janjon:

It's not frou-frou to learn the proper way to hone your knives or a more organized way to store linens. Not all of her stuff is cutesy, as Webbie says.

10567. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 4:10:47 PM

I don't mind sounding off like Susan Faludi or Naomi Wolfe on the subject of woman's magazines and products, but I strongly feel that those are 'negative' reinforcers rather than positive reinforcers for a woman's self esteem.

Why not despise the scaley female counterpart to Mr. Burns--Anna Wintour? She keeps women hating themselves, whereas Oprah and Stewart are just trying to open up a few new doors, rechanneling the message, providing them with more positive and attainable goals than looking like Gisele in a bikini.

10568. janjon - 8/14/2001 4:16:32 PM

well, I must admit I speak from ignorance. I don't think I've actually watched more than a glimpse of Martha Stewart and I've never read any of her publications. For some reason, though, those awfully cutsy wreathes and that ad of her coating her swimming pool with cut up Amex cards resonate in terms of my image of her.

10569. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 4:18:00 PM

I am handing that one to you, loar.

On another subject, frenchcat and i had a huge fight about cheeses this weekend.

The problem is that we have different defintiions of what cheese you eat solo as opposied to cheese that is used for cooking.

It started out with a trip to the supermarket. Frenchcat said he wanted to buy cheese. Noticing that we had 6 or 7 cheeses inthe fridge, I said,
"But we have cheese!"

ANd he said, looking at me as if I were nuts, "no we don't. I didn't see any/"

"But we have provolone, feta, cheddar, gruyère, american.."

"those are not cheeses. I am talking about the kind of cheese you eat and not the ones you cook with."

There was a heated back and forth as to what defined cheeses you eat and cheeses you cook with, and finally, I relented, citing cultural differences.

Marital lesson #68: Never, never, ever argue with a frenchman about cheeses! you will lose.

10570. thoughtful - 8/14/2001 4:18:36 PM

Webbie, you and I will have to just disagree on this one. A democratized approach to home improvement? She had a whole show on how I chose my custom made boat. Gee, that's advice I'm sure I'll need many times to come in my future. Got to see the boat and all.

Told to go buy a 101 products to boost their morale? Martha doesn't make anyone go out and buy anything...you can order it all through her website, and she tells you that often enough, and for lots of money too...far more than what you'd pay for it in the store. Before her website, one husband wrote how much he hated MS as his wife had him running all over hell'n'gone trying to find some obscure thing that Martha said was needed to make a certain thing.

Try watching HGTV sometime...lots of shows with lots of folks showing you all kinds of home improvement projects, practical advice, ways to save money and by a lot nicer people. Try the cooking channel and the discovery channel on daytime too. I'd rather watch Christopher Lowell plowing through the metal bin at some supply warehouse than watch Martha antiquing in the Hamptons.

10571. Wombat - 8/14/2001 4:21:29 PM

He allows American cheese in the house? That shows exceptional tolerance on his part

10572. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 4:22:04 PM

It's slightly scary the way I am now speaking english the way my husband speaks english. I refer to the 'cheeses', it's the same thing when he says 'clothes-es'. Now I am doing it. I am also calling dinner lunch. Ah, well.

10573. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2001 4:24:58 PM

Thoughtful:

I don't watch MS and love HGTV but only watch it occassionally. I still don't think Martha is all bad...she is what she is. But in the past, I've seen a few things she featured which were helpful.
And I'll watch Atilla the Hun go antiquing...I love seeing that stuff.

However, I think Webbie is dead on about Anna Wintour and her magazine.

10574. janjon - 8/14/2001 4:25:10 PM

I don't get the "calling dinner lunch" reference. Nothing clicks in terms of juxstaposing or intertwining French and English. At least for me.

10575. Webfeet - 8/14/2001 4:25:32 PM

Point taken, thoughtful. It is a self-serving enterprise, no doubt. But don't forget she helped start the wave of making k-mart and other stores like it cool. You don't have to feel shitty if you can't afford the swank stuff.

But tonight I will keep what you say in mind as I sip Martha' Arctic Mint Juleps and will toast your resistance.

But don't forget she helped start the wave of making k-mart and other stores like it cool. You don't have to feel shitty if you can't afford the good stuff.

10576. Jenerator - 8/14/2001 5:53:33 PM

At K-mart her paint is $12 - $20 a gallon. You can order $90 a gallon paint off of her website. Either way, you'll get a quality paint.

Webfeet,

I read some of the beauty magazines in addition to Vanity Fair...Vogue, Allure and InStyle. The only two things that really drive me nuts are 1)when they have headlines that read "Curves are In!" and feauture photo spreads of models like Nikki Taylor (who is my height but weighs 45!!!! pounds less than me, and I'm thin) and 2)when they feature "affordable" looks that are comprised of St. John suits and accessorized with Manolo Blahnik shoes and Cartier jewelry.

If they're going to push for anorexic and expensive, don't try to package it otherwise!

10577. joezan - 8/14/2001 9:30:31 PM

I've just returned from a 3-day conference, and our final session this a.m. was on Gender-specific Issues in Juvenile Justice.

The high-point of this presentation was, coincidentally, a 1/2-hr film, Killing Us Softly (pt. 3), which was entirely about the subjectivization of women/girls in advertising. Anyone ever seen this (or either of the first two parts)?

Very powerful stuff - many magazine ads and tv commercials I've seen (but never really noticed) were examined from a female perspective by the host.

The one that impacted me most was a magazine ad I've seen for a women's watch company:

The model is a young woman - maybe 18 - excruciatingly thin, probably anorexic. She is for all intents and purposes nude, but draped over her no doubt nonexistent chest is some diaphanous beige material.

Otherwise, all she wears is a heavy, chunky gold watch on her arm -around her i>biceps!

At the top left of the page, it says:

Put on some weight!

Horrible, when you think about it.

10578. joezan - 8/14/2001 9:32:38 PM

...uh, biceps, that is.

10579. joezan - 8/14/2001 9:42:53 PM

Wow - the Tall Ships ran into some trouble leaving port yesterday...

10580. thoughtful - 8/15/2001 8:49:34 AM

Ah dear webbie, you and I are a breed apart. I am definitely from peasant stock. I've never felt lousy shopping in K-marts, or Woolworths or other five and dime stores, salvation army stores, flea markets, tag sales and places in the awful side of town that you would probably never even pass on the street let alone go in. I've been a bargain hunter all my life and come from a long line of bargain hunters. Where I shop and how much I spend is not relevant to my self esteem. However, how much I spend relative to the value received is a major factor in my success as a "shopper."

I won't say that all of Martha's ideas are useless. I will give her credit for a bargain I enjoyed. I have a pair of alabaster lamps from the 1930s but the shades were awful. I went to a lamp shade store and was told $85-$100 each to have the shades professionally redone. Martha had a segment showing how you can recover shades using satin ribbon so I did the job for $15 each. Not bad.

But a lot of her ideas are simply OTT. I am not going to gold leaf easter eggs, and I am not going to grow a pot of fresh grass weeks in advance so I can use it on a ham. Ain't happening. And I get floored when I see a segment with Martha and some poor schmuck on her show demonstrating how to fold sheets for your linen closet, expressing how important it is for you and your partner to coordinate the timing of the folds. Please!

10581. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 9:12:26 AM

Well, folding sheets or making the bed with your honey can be a good thing, thoughtful.;-)

10582. thoughtful - 8/15/2001 9:15:34 AM

J@h, more fun messing up the sheets... a much much better thing!

10583. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 9:28:14 AM

I know...that's what I meant!

10584. Jenerator - 8/15/2001 10:00:56 AM

My first experience watching Martha featured a winter show. She was illustrating how to have fresh herbs year round, even if one lives in a freezing climate. It was simple, just build a solar paneled garden that's sunken and takes up less room. After a hard day's work, make the prefect cup of cocoa using only freshly hatched eggs, imported Belgian cream, and copper bottomed saucepans exclusively from Germany. All 50 lbs of ingredients made that *one* perfect cup.
I was fascinated by how impractical the show was, so I had to watch the next one and thankfully, it was entirely more useful.

10585. thoughtful - 8/15/2001 10:11:23 AM

Of course, the point as you can tell from my comments is that I do watch Martha. I especially enjoy the shows where her mother demonstrates how to make the traditional Polish dishes that are like those my and hubby's grandmothers used to make. Alas they are no longer around to show me how and I appreciate seeing how it's done. But I do admit that most of my fun watching MS is loving to hate her.

10586. Shannon - 8/15/2001 10:16:00 AM

I can't watch the show--her voice is way too calm and sleep-inducing.

One of my best friends from college went to work for her magazine. Freaked me right the hell out, I tell you. But I've since bought the magazine because of that, and it did have a couple of recipes that weren't too ludicrous. I also went to her webpage, and I will say I like her gardening stuff. She has a nifty plant encyclopedia.

10587. bubbaette - 8/15/2001 10:25:37 AM

I picture MS as the queen of 1001 nifty little projects you're never really going to do. You may intend to do them -- you may even go so far as to purchase or otherwise line up the ingredients/parts. But they will sit there unused and taking up space, serving as a testiment to good intention and reproach to your lack of industry.

10588. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 10:38:08 AM

Ha! That's why I neve succumb to any suggestions from her but the practical ones, like rotating the mattresses when Daylight Savings Time starts or ends...

10589. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 10:38:28 AM

neveR

10590. bubbaette - 8/15/2001 10:44:11 AM

I'm learning, Judith. I have enough unfinished projects already without needing an unfinished project generator like Martha Stewart.

10591. Jenerator - 8/15/2001 10:53:01 AM

I'd be interested in hearing what the most impractical topics anyone has seen on her show were.

10592. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 11:03:50 AM

Back when I watched it, I thought the hand stamped napkins were a time consumer without a payoff.

10593. seadate - 8/15/2001 11:06:00 AM

Judith makes up for the lack of hand-stamped napkins by being a warm and delightful hostess.

10594. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 11:12:08 AM

Why, thank you, BB!

Howyadoin'?

10595. Jenerator - 8/15/2001 11:12:10 AM

Judith,

My mom received red napkins with the gold emblazoned name "Marsha" on them (all 100 of them) last Christmas from the wife of one of the big cheeses at work. Yes, we think they're tacky, but they've provided a great laugh or two.

Whenever I'm at MarshaMe's house, she serves drinks with these napkins and we joke as though they're businss cards. Plus, half the fun is trying to dispose of them in creative ways.

10596. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 11:13:29 AM

Tell your mom they can double as handerchiefs and be casually dropped in front of good looking guys...

10597. seadate - 8/15/2001 11:20:02 AM

Doin' ok, LS. Good to hear Klaus is back to normal. What's the Atlantic URL?

10598. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 11:26:30 AM

Post&Ripost

But a warning: no cafes and I'm only on the TV forum, which you eschew, I recall...

10599. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 11:27:16 AM

Riposte has an E at the end...sorry.

10600. seadate - 8/15/2001 11:32:25 AM

I've been watching a bit more lately ;)

10601. ronski - 8/15/2001 11:37:34 AM

Re: rose wines. I like them. The demi-sec's (semi-sweet) are good as an aperatif. My town's liquor store carries one, Domaine Chupin, which is nice and about eight bucks (and you can probably find it cheaper).

They also carry a dry one called "L'Estandon," from Cotes de Provence, which is good with a light meal.

A lot of "white merlots" have been turning up lately from large U.S. vineyards, following sales success with white zinfandels. The latter can be a bit acidic, and the former (usually a very dark pink) can be a bit on the sweet side. But they are not expensive and are worth a try if you are not philosophically opposed to rose wines.

10602. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 11:59:10 AM

I don't mind them occassionally, like at a party when you don't want to drink much and just want to sip something. What comes to mind is a gallery opening when they usually put out whites and rosés in case someone spills...

10603. ycmeehan - 8/15/2001 12:26:38 PM

webfeet,
If you haven't read it already, for you and Frenchcat
As far as the fougasse is concerned, I did not know that it was a specialty of the Alps. According to my brother, the vignerons of the Mont Ventoux brought it to Haute-Provence.

10604. ronski - 8/15/2001 12:30:42 PM

I love all the washed cheeses.

10605. ScottLoar - 8/15/2001 12:36:19 PM

Havarti with dill, good to munch, good to cook.

10606. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 12:39:44 PM

Scott,

I'll ditto that one...great for omelets!

10607. ScottLoar - 8/15/2001 12:43:44 PM

Ah, you read my own breakfast which is exactly what I had this morning plus porto bello mushrooms.

10608. theDiva - 8/15/2001 1:02:40 PM

this thread is hugely entertaining. love the MS discussion.

10609. janjon - 8/15/2001 1:04:49 PM

love the discussion, hate the calculating hyped up lady - that's my motto.

10610. Frankster - 8/15/2001 1:06:58 PM

Deev,

I don't know if you were serious, or putting us on, but I LOL on that last post.

10611. Frankster - 8/15/2001 1:08:44 PM

By the way, guys. I had eggplant off the grill the other night ( The crowd roars ), and it was actually quite good.

Will my palate ever be the same again ?

10612. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 1:12:23 PM

Kudos to Franque!!

10613. seadate - 8/15/2001 1:13:29 PM

Beats beans and weenies, eh Frank.

BTW, weekend before last was a blast. I'm glad you were there.

10614. Frankster - 8/15/2001 1:23:17 PM

Thanks, y'all! The feeling is mutual, Sea. It was good visiting with you guys also. I can't wait to do it again someday. Only next time, let's do it when it's a bit cooler, okay ? I really want to get a glimpse of those museums in Fort Worth, and ride a bike in Arkansas.

And, it goes without saying that the red carpet is extended for any of you out here in little ol' San Diego should you ever come out to visit.

Judith -- Did you guys get a glimpse of that tape yet ? And, yesterday I actually had some time to go look for footwear, but could not find any ones similar to Keoni's. They were all open toe, which I don't care for. I even went to Nordstroms. Yech!

10615. Frankster - 8/15/2001 1:27:39 PM

Seadate -- Before I forget, send me your address to me_palani@yahoo.com. There is something I want to send you that I think you will enjoy, and it nope, it isn't an inflatable doll. (g)

10616. thoughtful - 8/15/2001 1:31:21 PM

seadate...beans & weanies...I'm impressed with your talent. Somehow I find it so hard to balance those little beans on the grill without them falling through to the flames below. Then try turning the little suckers.

10617. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 1:31:50 PM

Frank, yes, we watched a good bit of it Monday night! It's really hysterical...and I agree, better than the American version.

10618. theDiva - 8/15/2001 1:40:29 PM

thoughtful

tweezers.

frank

joking? moi? (you COOKED!)

10619. seadate - 8/15/2001 1:40:38 PM

Frank, comin' at ya.

thoughtful,

Being such a picky eater, Frank probly won't eat them anyway, so they might as well fall through the holes in the grill ... easier cleanup, yaknow.

10620. Frankster - 8/15/2001 2:04:00 PM

Alright, alright, enough of the cooking jokes, y'all. It's actually been pasta ( Thank the Spencers for that ), and steak and potatos of late. It's been awhile since I've cooked any beans and weenies.

Deev -- The neighbor had the grill out two nights ago, and it was HE, not I, that had the grilled eggplant going. He offered, and I, shall we say, "indulged". It was actually very good.

You guys got me thinking about Arkansas again. I could jog and ride my bike on those country roads there everyday without fearing a bumper up my ass, or a rollerblader cutting me off. What beauty and serenity.

Judith -- I'm glad you enjoyed the tape, although some of the earlier shows on it were kind of flat to me. Stephen Frost, the bald English gentleman, is usually funnier, but I think I caught Greg Proops at his best. :-)

10621. theDiva - 8/15/2001 2:27:12 PM

Frankie

sigh. Grilled eggplant. If you lived here I could teach you how to cook.

10622. Jenerator - 8/15/2001 2:47:09 PM

I KNEW that Frank was a southern gentleman. My suspicions have been confirmed.

10623. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 2:52:44 PM

Jen:

Franque handled the south just like a pro! He's a natural, all right, especially the gentlemanly part. My friend Ann was very impressed...

10624. Absensia - 8/15/2001 2:59:15 PM

Diva...how are you? I've missed seeing you these last few days?

10625. Frankster - 8/15/2001 3:01:16 PM

I KNEW that Frank was a southern gentleman. My suspicions have been confirmed.

Jen -- Southern gentleman eat eggplant ? What makes me appear "southern", child ?

Judith -- Tell Ann that it was I who got the best of it. She certainly follows her politics around thar, doesn't she ?
By the way, what became of your other friend ?

Oh, and next time I'm down you will see me with the benefit of two or three weeks of hard cycling. There is a world of difference if you can recall what we spoke about at one time ( The Paris picture ) ?

10626. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 3:07:23 PM

I thought I'd told you the other friend was visiting in Chicago...got free tickets and took off...

10627. Jenerator - 8/15/2001 5:40:56 PM

Frank,

You're a southern gentleman becuse of how nice you are and because of how much everybody loves you immediately.

If you eat eggplant, it had better be barbecued darlin!;-)

10628. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 5:55:48 PM

So Jen...are you teaching agian this year?

10629. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2001 5:56:08 PM

...or even again....

10630. Frankster - 8/15/2001 6:06:16 PM

Jen,

You're a southern gentleman becuse of how nice you are and because of how much
everybody loves you immediately.

( Boy, I'm glad to see that all those acting lessons actually paid off. Whew!)

10631. Jenerator - 8/15/2001 8:17:02 PM

Who's acting, them or you?

Judith,

I'm taking a break from teaching. I may pursue certification later. If anything, I'll go back in January or maybe I'll substitute teach. Because I wasn't certified, I only get credit in that district, so I'd have to stay within it for the time being. Ugh.

I loved the hours and a handful of the kids. I wish that the administration had been more supportive and more effective.

10632. Frankster - 8/16/2001 2:59:05 AM

Jen,

Who's acting, them or you?

Me, Silly! And, if you didn't catch it in an earlier post somewhere, I think that part of Texas ( Dallas/Fort Worth ) that you reside in is very beautiful.

... I actually took a Drama course in college and also took part in a play for a friend now that I think about it.

God, those were the good ol'days.

G'night!

10633. thoughtful - 8/16/2001 2:48:42 PM

On the Martha Stewart Disease. I had forgotten about her spreading gunk on terra cotta pots to make them mold!

10634. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2001 2:50:35 PM

Hey, that was one of my faves, thoughtful!!;-)

10635. Ms. No - 8/16/2001 2:56:58 PM

Anybody have a good web resource for renderings of Flowers and Climbing vines?

10636. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 5:43:26 PM

Frank,
It's about 15 degrees cooler than it was when you were here. We've had two cold fronts come through since then. It would be a great biking area except for the lack of shoulders. There a number of really nice trails around for biking and walking and lots of quiet and pretty byroads, if you don't mind gravel.

10637. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2001 5:46:55 PM

Or he could go to Hot Springs and ride down that hill!

10638. glendajean - 8/16/2001 5:58:13 PM

Speaking of gravel ...

I often watch "Ground Forces" on BBC America, a show about sneaking into someone's garden and doing a makeover for 1500 pounds in two days while they are away, then surprising them with a new garden space.

Alan Titsmarsh, the host, often uses lots of gravel in his gardens. The look is fine, and there is a tradition of it in Europe, but I often think of how impractical gravel is in places like Texas, because of the tremendous heat, not to mention our prolific weeds, or err, native plants.

The best gravel gardens, imo, are the ones that fade into things like bunches of lavendar, a sort of semi-messy or casual cottage garden.

Part of my dislike of gravel stems back to my childhood in the 60s, when so-called rock gardens were popular in Texas. These usually consisted of a triangle of a yard covered in thick white gravel, with a couple of prickly pairs and some other sort of cactus planted, and a cow skull thrown in for good measure.

The asthetics of such a sight in the middle of the summer heat were depressing enough, but I hated seeing the eventual deterioration by vegetation breaking through the gravel. If a garden is an inviting place, an outdoor stone oven with a cow skull somehow sends another message.

10639. Jenerator - 8/16/2001 6:03:14 PM

Glenda,

I use to watch that show often, but the only thing I didn't like was the constant use of steel or building materials as sculptures in the gardens.

10640. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 6:45:21 PM

He'd better make sure his brakes were good, Judith!

BTW, my last question in TT's Housekeeping Q&A was answered, "vinegar," which didn't work, and neither did bleach. It's like a film, but it won't rub off. It disappears when the glass is wet and reappears when it dries. About half my glasses are like that. It was just one dishwashing cycle and it's driving me crazy trying to figure out what caused it. At least it only happened once.

10641. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2001 6:51:11 PM

I have that happen inside some of my glasses and all I do is wipe them with a dry paper towel...just sort of rub it away. Let me know if this works.

I saw your question...for some reason, I didn't think to suggest just rubbing it with a paper towel...if this doesn't work, it must be a different sort of film than I'm used to.

10642. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 7:04:29 PM

I tried that several times before anything else. Maybe I should use a brillo pad or something, and see if it will scratch off. They're cheap glasses, but some of the stainless has a lot of sentimental value, since it was a present from Bob's grandfather for his first marriage and was monogrammed (one reason we're the ones who have it--heh heh).

10643. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 7:05:49 PM

It's not like water spots or typical film. It looks somewhat like it, but it sure doesn't go away. It's really weird.

10644. Absensia - 8/16/2001 7:13:25 PM

baking soda, diluted? maybe household ammonia, deluted, and then washed well?

10645. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 7:14:33 PM

Thanks, Abs. I'll try both.

10646. Absensia - 8/16/2001 7:17:56 PM

Hope something works...it's hard to keep trying. I assumed you've tried yelling: "Out out, damned spot."

10647. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 7:22:36 PM

Hahaha. We used to have a cat named Spot and Bob loved saying that to him every time he ran in the house.

10648. Absensia - 8/16/2001 7:36:13 PM

Hahaha.

10649. thoughtful - 8/16/2001 8:52:55 PM

my husband swears by mineral spirits...he tries it on everything ... only wash the glasses well afterward. I have a nice decanter that got destroyed by our hard water. It has a narrow neck so I can't get inside to dry it...air drying took a long time and when it was done, the glass was etched. So frustrating.

10650. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 9:45:10 PM

Our water is great. I really can't figure out what did this. It's never happened before and hasn't happened since, thank goodness, or I'd really be in a pickle. Something must've gotten washed in with that particular load, but I can't for the life of me figure out what. It was during that big party weekend, though, so it could've been about anything.

10651. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 9:46:02 PM

BTW, I hate that about your decanter. It's really upsetting to have a nice piece ruined like that.

10652. arkymalarky - 8/16/2001 9:48:04 PM

Not ruined, but unintentionally etched. Intentionally etched is nice, of course.

10653. Jenerator - 8/16/2001 11:52:39 PM

arky,

My mom's best friend has one of the largest and best collections of American and European cut glass, etched glass, and cameo glass in the West.

She cleans the pieces she buys at auction with denture cleaner and a tooth brush. I've seen her turn some filthy vases into real stunners.

Try that on your filmy residue.

10654. Absensia - 8/16/2001 11:56:49 PM

Arky, what Jen says rings a bell..I'd try it first.

10655. arkymalarky - 8/17/2001 9:50:39 AM

Oh, Ok. I'll get some today when I go to the store. If it takes a toothbrush, it's too much work on the cheap glasses and stainless, but for the few pieces that are important it would definitely be worth it.

10656. ScottLoar - 8/17/2001 10:40:14 AM

Better you try Simple Green Lime Scale Remover or Lime-A-Way. Read the applications then see which is best. Besides, once bought you can apply either of these products to porcelain pots, bathroom sinks and tubs, chrome fixtures, and other metal ofjects.

10657. arkymalarky - 8/17/2001 10:42:49 AM

Sounds like something I should have around the house anyway. Thanks Scott.

10658. Frankster - 8/17/2001 11:41:25 AM

Arky,

Frank,
It's about 15 degrees cooler than it was when you were here. We've had two cold fronts come through since then. It would be a great biking area except for the lack of shoulders. There a number of really nice trails around for biking and walking and lots of quiet and pretty byroads, if you don't mind gravel.

Gravel's fine, dear. It gives in a sense. I would just love to jump on a bicycle and ride for miles upon miles without having to worry about any sort of the traffic I'm accustom to.
By the way, what's a cold front like in your parts for this time of year, anything under 90 ? ;-)

What's this hill Judith talks about in Little Rock all about ?

... I think I brought back some of that heat and humidity from Arkansas and Texas. It's been warm and humid out here of late.

10659. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2001 11:48:12 AM

The hill is in Hot Springs, Franque.

10660. Jenerator - 8/17/2001 12:00:24 PM

Finally Judith, we have rain too! And a lot of it! I'm looking out at the backyard and seeing the plants literally plump up before my eyes. My flowers are screaming with delight.

This is great!

10661. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2001 12:02:53 PM

No kidding...the local weather people certainly thought so; they kept coming on and saying "It's raining out there and we have thunder and lightening, too!" like we weren't aware of that fact.

It had been 84 days without rain....

10662. Frankster - 8/17/2001 12:04:04 PM

Judith,

Is it a big hill ? I've got hills out here ya know.

10663. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2001 12:19:20 PM

It's a veritable mountain, Franque.

10664. arkymalarky - 8/17/2001 12:51:08 PM

It is as Judith says, but I'm sure nothing you're not used to. It has a beautiful view of the town.

By the way, what's a cold front like in your parts for this time of year, anything under 90 ? ;-)

I know you're kidding, but yep. AR weather is generally very tolerable almost all year round except for July and August. Last year was horrendous, though, and the weatherman said yesterday that last year's temp on the same day was 106.

10665. Frankster - 8/17/2001 1:05:00 PM

Arky,

Of course I'm kidding, young lady.

So what's the "perfect" time to visit, in case we ever get together again ( We will ) ?
I would have loved to just walk around the woods in your area, but the humidity on that weekend just made it impossible for someone of my bourgeois sensitivities ( wink, wink ) to go out to explore the natural beauty of the nearby terrain.

How hot was it when we were there ? Ninety-eight or so ?

10666. thoughtful - 8/17/2001 1:13:25 PM

No one ever comes and visits me. }:-(

Oh? You mean I have to invite people? Tell them who I am? Where I live?

Ah! There's the rub!

10667. arkymalarky - 8/17/2001 1:14:06 PM

The very best times to visit AR are fall and spring. I used to love fall best, but as more hardwoods are replaced by pines (don't get me started) I find I enjoy early March through about May. The air is so clear it hurts. June was great this year, too, but the bugs really start to wake up about then. Daffodils usually bloom in February, and sometimes it's not too cold to enjoy them.

AR is generally a very cheap place to vacation, too. There are lots of nice places to camp and hike and for just about any other outdoor activity.

There's lots of good stuff here.

The lake on the front page is very accessible from my house--less than an hour's drive.

10668. arkymalarky - 8/17/2001 1:15:12 PM

Oh, and it probably was around 98 for the high that day. The humidity is what gets you, though.

10669. arkymalarky - 8/17/2001 1:16:39 PM

You'd never regret it, Thoughtful. I wouldn't trade that weekend for a million bucks.

10670. alistairconnor - 8/17/2001 1:25:04 PM

Yeah, we just spent two weeks in North Carolina and most of the time it was just too damn hot to even think of doing anything outdoors, other than going to the pool. We wanted to get out and about in the mornings, but we never managed to get everyone organised till at least 10am.

10671. PsychProf - 8/17/2001 1:27:25 PM

AC...did you get to Wilmington?

10672. arkymalarky - 8/17/2001 1:28:56 PM

People are welcome to come see us any time and we've got good air conditioning and plenty of porches and shady spots with fans, but unless you can be entertained by that and our company for more than a day or two, it's best not to make it a summer vacation spot. That's why we go to the family cabin in the Rockies about every other summer.

10673. joezan - 8/18/2001 10:12:22 AM

Went fishing about 175 miles north of here, at a big, crystal-clear lake.
These were the biggest fish I saw.

Here, they're chewing on my foot - just the left one, for some odd reason.

10674. arkymalarky - 8/18/2001 10:19:29 AM

Nice set of toes. Love that flip-flop tan.

10675. joezan - 8/18/2001 10:23:43 AM

The white part is my sunburn gauge...when it starts turning pink, I put on the sunblock.

10676. joezan - 8/18/2001 11:02:51 AM

Our cabin:

10677. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 11:08:19 AM

Very nice, Joe!!

10678. joezan - 8/18/2001 11:11:17 AM

Lying on a raft, staring at the sky:

10679. joezan - 8/18/2001 11:16:20 AM

Judith:

Yeah...I didn't really even miss not getting any fish.

This time, it was only for 2 days. We've been up there (Higgins Lake) for a whole week before, and it is absolutely beautiful.

It's a Michigan DNR training camp, which was built as a CCC project during the Depression. The accommodations are spartan, but obsessively clean and well thought-out.

10680. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 11:21:04 AM

I love that clouds picture!! It looks like a painting...

10681. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 11:57:03 AM

Different sort of day today: we're going with another couple to the mall to shop for clothes. This going to be fun...the guys will get clothes, the girls will get clothes. Everyone has to agree the clothes look good before we purchase.

Yes, I know it sounds frivilous but who cares?

10682. ScottLoar - 8/18/2001 1:30:08 PM

Wish I were goin' with ya'; if my taste dominates men would turn out like Edwardian toffs and the women like Parisienne strumpets circa 1790.

10683. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 1:37:19 PM

How ever did you guess our plans, Scott?

Seriously, this will be fun because the other guy isn't used to clothes shopping and my husband is very much into it.

10684. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2001 11:13:55 PM

Just in case anyone is wondering, I got 3 outfits and none looks like Parisienne strumpets circa 1790.

10685. Absensia - 8/18/2001 11:17:08 PM

Awww Judith, and here I was hoping for some excitement.

10686. joezan - 8/18/2001 11:17:57 PM

So, you opted for the Vegas Showgirl circa 2001 look?

10687. JudithAtHome - 8/19/2001 12:12:00 AM

You betcha, joezan...feathers and all!

10688. thoughtful - 8/19/2001 9:11:38 AM

the Fashion of the times came this weekend. What garbage...and they wonder why retail sales for clothing is down...why not design something that a) flatters and b) people can actually wear. It might also help if the models looked even ever so slightly like they were enjoying themselves (tho' in those heels a smile would require excellent acting) and it might also help if the lit the clothes enough in the photo to actually see them....but then again, if you could see them, you would probably never buy them. Ridiculous.

10689. joezan - 8/19/2001 9:50:13 AM

We took the 9 y.o. daughter shopping for school clothes yesterday.

She picks up a shirt to show us which,

a: Is obviously for an infant - I swear, it is maybe 6 inches tall, 4 inches wide, with short sleeves maybe 4 inches around, and...

b: looks as though it is made of tie-dyed, scrunched-up crepe paper.

And it is.

But it was in the Young Girls' Dept. It was a young girl's size. And the display says something about its incredible stretch-ability.

So, our daughter stretches it out to its full size, and I'll be dipped if it wouldn't "fit" your average 9-10 y.o. girl.

Of course, it would show the entire belly from about the sternum down, which would be just lovely when matched with the super-slim, hip-hugging jeans with the multi-colored trim at the bottom of the bells, on hangers right below the shirts.

What the hell are people thinking?

And what asshole would actually let their pre-teen daughter wear something like that.

Thankfully, our daughter found the whole get-up laughable, and proceeded on to the more appropriate stuff.

10690. ScottLoar - 8/19/2001 10:06:56 AM

And what asshole would actually let their pre-teen daughter wear something like that.

I recount:

1) Parent who has no control over the pre-teen daughter;
2) Parent who doesn't care what the pre-teen daughter wears so long as it doesn't inconvenience them;
4) Pre-teen daughter who has control over the parent;
5) Pre-
teen daughter who doesn't care what the parent thinks as long as it doesn't inconvenience her;
6) Parent and pre-teen daughter who have remarkably yet commonly bad taste;
7) Parent and pre-teen daughter from southern California.

10691. Jenerator - 8/19/2001 11:29:10 AM

What's even more scary is that women wear those "dimple" shirts. I've seen them at Nordstrom's for $78!!

10692. Jenerator - 8/19/2001 11:32:53 AM

Regarding clothes, I am so excited!! I oredered this outfit just a week and a half ago and I got it the the mail yesterday! I love wearing these types of pants to the gym.

10693. Jenerator - 8/19/2001 11:35:43 AM

For those of you who work out, Malibu bodywear has some cute and functional outfits that aren't too over-the-top.

10694. arkymalarky - 8/19/2001 1:03:03 PM

I don't store shop a lot, but for catalogs I like Clifford&Wills. I get CitySpirit for some reason and I love their clothes, though they're a bit steep. I'm a very casual dresser and it's nice to find comfortable clothes that look good. Those two qualities aren't often seen together, imo.

As far as the preteen styles, you'd be surprised and disgusted how much the parents promote this kind of crap for their girls.

10695. arkymalarky - 8/19/2001 1:03:58 PM

BTW, the LimeAway didn't work. I'm thinking of going to the university chemistry department and having that stuff analyzed. I really can't imagine what did it.

10696. Jenerator - 8/19/2001 1:12:29 PM

Did you try denture cleaner?

10697. arkymalarky - 8/19/2001 1:28:55 PM

Blast. I knew I forgot something at the store. I'll get some.

10698. JudithAtHome - 8/19/2001 1:52:30 PM

Well, it's not like it's something you'd get regualrly...

We had a great time shopping...the store where I got my stuff was next door to Neimans and right across from the Godiva Boutique. We had chocolate truffles before dinner...a great way to have them!

10699. JudithAtHome - 8/19/2001 1:53:22 PM

regularly...I have dyslexic fingers, I guess.

10700. ScottLoar - 8/19/2001 1:55:57 PM

Paris chic 1790-91 sans underwear (factual), the fabric often wetted to cling to the body, the breast often exposed:

10701. ScottLoar - 8/19/2001 1:57:11 PM

For the demure:

10702. ScottLoar - 8/19/2001 2:05:27 PM

For myself, 1902:

10703. ScottLoar - 8/19/2001 2:09:33 PM

Eveningwear, 1910:

... but you get the general idea.

10704. Jenerator - 8/19/2001 2:24:25 PM

Yeah, but what does your cod piece look like?

10705. ScottLoar - 8/19/2001 3:50:37 PM

Always open to speculation, only open by invitation. Are you applying for a preview?

10706. joezan - 8/19/2001 4:04:03 PM

Well, I'm neither as modest, nor demanding as Mr. Loar.

I know you didn't ask, Jenn, but mine looks just like those from A Clockwork Orange.

10707. ScottLoar - 8/19/2001 4:14:24 PM

Yes, and he goes for the complete eye mascara and cane as well.

10708. arkymalarky - 8/19/2001 9:53:51 PM

Well, the denture cleaner hasn't worked so far, but I'm going to soak the stainless overnight and we'll see.

10709. thoughtful - 8/20/2001 8:43:30 AM

good luck arky. Unfortunately stainless doesn't mean it doesn't stain...it means it stains less. I never had luck with denture cleaner either. Give the mineral spirits a try if that doesn't do it. It's also great at removing the glue from stubborn price stickers.

10710. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 10:40:57 AM

Scott

Tempted as I am, I'll have to settle for the mystery. Besides, I wouldn't know how to properly ask a man of your stature and expertise.

Joe,

A Clockwork Orange was on the other night. Funny you mention that.

---------

I'm actually wearing this right now and headed up to the gym ( I bough the shorts too!).

10711. glendajean - 8/20/2001 10:44:38 AM

I heard someone on a gardening show this weekend talking about using denture cleaner to clean old clay pots. I was on the treadmill (in much less flashy clothing than that posted above) and didn't catch the whole story.

This weekend, I dug up one new bed in my shade garden and started working on a new perennial bed in my front yard that will run parallel to another bed started earlier in the spring.

I used to always double-dig beds, but have taken to just turning the grass upside down, letting it rot into composted organic matter. Since I am not planting immediately, I have some time to do this. Over the next few weeks, I will also start adding bags of compost and peat, working it in, and cultivating out straggling surving vegetation by hoe.

When completed, my front yard will be divided into three sections, and I will actually have a garden up and running. I've decided on square buffered cement brick pavers for edging. The pavers are 6" x 6", and about 2" deep. Because they've been slapped around, they have a milky gray appearance that is stone-like in texture.

Lots of rain over the weekend. Luckily, I got my digging work in before it started.

10712. bubbaette - 8/20/2001 10:48:42 AM

I'm wearing my vinyl exercize muu muu with heavy cotton flannel backing to soak up excess sweat. I've also vasalined my thighs to keep them from chaffing when I'm on the treadmill.

10713. glendajean - 8/20/2001 10:52:03 AM

Good morning, Miss B. Lovely image. I wish we could see it.

BTW, I've officially declared that it is fall.

10714. theDiva - 8/20/2001 11:17:02 AM

Jen

I used to like you.

Damned hardbody babes.

(waddles off in search of a Twinkie.)

10715. theDiva - 8/20/2001 11:18:46 AM

joking aside, I'm just envious you have time for the gym. sigh.

Glenda

it isn't fall here. Dammit.

10716. bubbaette - 8/20/2001 11:22:48 AM

Glendajean

I assure you that I am a sight to behold in my workout garb.

We just joined Richmond Athletic Club last week -- got a family membership so Ms. Vole can go. But we haven't actually been to workout yet --that starts this evening.

10717. theDiva - 8/20/2001 11:26:00 AM

oh sure, Bubb, rub it in.

Vinyl muumuu, indeed. Damned hardbody babes.

10718. glendajean - 8/20/2001 11:32:50 AM

We joined a health club and realized that we spent most of our time on the treadmill. So we bought a treadmill and cancelled the membership. I am a little surprised, but my partner and I use it a lot.

For the past few days, it has been nights in the 50s and days in the 70s. I call that fall. At least, it is cool enough for me to do what I like to do in the fall: dig new beds, work old beds, divide, spend time in the garden.

10719. theDiva - 8/20/2001 11:35:12 AM

sigh

Wish it was that nice here, it has been the usual swampy Northern Virginia soup of an August.

10720. bubbaette - 8/20/2001 11:38:42 AM

I got the very front and side flower gardens weeded and mulched last week and put in a few mums for color in the side garden. But it's not quite cool here yet and the mosquitos are ferocious. I bought a few citronella torches for use outside last week and they seem to do pretty well in a limited space. I think I need to get about a dozen more and ring my gardens while I'm working outside. The breed of mosquito we have is especially pernicious. Dousing myself in "Off" only slows them down a little. Lately I've been having to wear long-handled shirts and pants to work in the garden and still come in with bites. Sure does put a damper on my pleasure in gardening.

10721. glendajean - 8/20/2001 11:44:22 AM

I put up with a certain amount of mosquito bites. When I was a kid, I would get whelps from them. It's not as big a deal now.

But then I read about the West Nile stuff, and I think, hmmm...

We'll probably all end up like Floridians and have a screen enclosure over our yards.

10722. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 12:53:05 PM

Bubba,

I had to get new spandex shorts because I wore my others ones out. They went with everything and looked so fashionable with high-heels.

Diva,

I think that Torrie Wilson is beautiful and very inspiring. I look at her body and I have to go to the gym and pump iron.

10723. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 1:13:53 PM

Love her black roots. That used to be tacky; has it become fashionable rather than lazy now?

10724. theDiva - 8/20/2001 1:20:40 PM

who is she?

10725. Absensia - 8/20/2001 1:28:21 PM

Well, I think wearing my spandex shorts with high heels is very chic...especially with those new net stockings!

10726. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 1:55:28 PM

Diva,

She's a former Ms. Fitness USA. She's super sweet and has a great attitude. She and I have similar builds, and so if I workout hard enough, I can have her body. Which I want!

Absensia,

Do you wear your shorts over your tights in the winter like I do?

10727. bubbaette - 8/20/2001 1:55:35 PM

My problem is that when I wear spandex bike shorts I look not unlike two link sausages with that little knot in the middle.

10728. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 1:58:46 PM

Wait til you get older, Bubb...the little knots will disappear.

10729. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 1:59:00 PM

10730. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 2:00:04 PM

Jen, you are already fresh; you don't need to REfresh.

10731. theDiva - 8/20/2001 2:03:32 PM

Jen

Except you'll be even more FAB.

Gosh, I miss weight training.

10732. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 2:04:23 PM

What do you mean? My shorts over my tights isn't fresh or looking like Torrie isn't fresh?

10733. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 2:05:28 PM

No, I meant double posting....

10734. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 2:10:21 PM

That's weird, I didn't hit the post button but once. Something strange is going on!

10735. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 2:11:28 PM

Bubba,

Do you wear bicycle shorts with the built in pad?

10736. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 2:20:08 PM

Last one

10737. bubbaette - 8/20/2001 2:42:57 PM

No Jen, I have the built in pad.

10738. theDiva - 8/20/2001 2:45:56 PM

do you suppose those are implants?

10739. janjon - 8/20/2001 2:47:08 PM

no, but they may have caps though.

10740. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 2:47:17 PM

If not, she is gifted.

10741. janjon - 8/20/2001 2:47:50 PM

either way, she's topheavy.

sigh.

10742. Absensia - 8/20/2001 2:52:34 PM

Jen,
No, in winter I wear my flannel fishnets. And if it's a formal affair, I usually add a tasteful set of pearls and earnings.

10743. theDiva - 8/20/2001 2:57:28 PM

jan

er....

oh, never mind.

10744. janjon - 8/20/2001 2:58:43 PM

diva. I was just trying to make a witty.

They may not be capped, but she's certainly using more than just tooth paste on them.

10745. theDiva - 8/20/2001 3:01:57 PM

I know, goofy, so was I.

Honestly, though, she has got to have breast implants. No way has someone with that little bodyfat going to have such full breasts otherwise.

10746. janjon - 8/20/2001 3:03:23 PM

trick photography.

10747. theDiva - 8/20/2001 3:04:08 PM

hm. Possibly.

10748. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 3:26:15 PM

This has got to be one of the weirdest fitness poses

I started my workout program today. I am probably being a bit too eager, bit I have it split this way:
M/Th - back and biceps, abs, calves
T/Fr-chest, shoulders and triceps, abs,
W/S - legs and glutes, abs
Sun. - off

10 minute min. cardio everyday except Sunday.

But what I realized is that even my fridge needs an overhaul. This is pathetic, but all that is in the fridge is the following:
orange juice
champagne
half & half
mangoes
eggs
snap peas
feta cheese
prosciutto
and condiments, including three different kinds of horseradish and five different mustards.

We have nothing to eat!

10749. theDiva - 8/20/2001 3:31:31 PM

Well, for one thing, her hands need to be flat on the ground and pointed forward, her thigh needs to be parallel to the ground, and she's hyperextending her glutes backwards.

But she's got a hell of a bod nonetheless.

10750. janjon - 8/20/2001 3:34:27 PM

who cares about those details, diva.

10751. Laura C - 8/20/2001 3:35:04 PM

Jen, I was going to ask you whether you eat the way the fitness stars do -six meals a day, few carbs, etc. I've read that diet is 75% of the results you get.

I like to weight-train, personally, but without a complete diet overhaul, I won't be looking like that!

10752. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 3:35:58 PM

But I think that pose and your point about body fat solves the dilemma of whether they are real or Memorex...

10753. janjon - 8/20/2001 3:37:54 PM

happy in her work, she is.

10754. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 3:44:35 PM

Laura,

When I'm disciplined and serious, diet is no problem. I usually elimate all milk products except for skim milk and anything I know to be bad. Most of the fitness diets are deceiving because they're training/competing diets used by body builders before show.

For JanJon:

10755. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 3:58:40 PM

Is everyone motivated to get more exercise now?

10756. theDiva - 8/20/2001 4:00:12 PM

Judith

answered handily, I'd say.

Jen

Motivated, oh yes. Motivation is never a problem, it's TIME that's the problem.

10757. thoughtful - 8/20/2001 4:02:56 PM

Funny, she doesn't do a thing for me. She looks way too artificial for my tastes. Give me someone real...I hope I can look half as good when I'm 86.

10758. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 4:09:10 PM

Jen,

Not particularily. I could work out 24/7 and not look like that. And frankly, I'm not losing any sleep over NOT looking like that. She's an attractive lady but doesn't send me into fits of longing to look like her.

I like the way I look and know there's not much I can do without plastic surgery to change it, anyhow...and they call it "plastic" for a reason.:-)

You can probably reach your goal with exercise and discipline and I hope you end up looking great and feeling great, too. But you look good enough to start with and so it's a realistic goal for you. Enjoy it!

10759. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:18:19 PM

I wasn't intending for everyone to want to look like Torrie Wilson, I just meant for everyone to feel motivated.

Here's a pic that makes me laugh. Any guesses as to why?;-)

10760. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:18:48 PM

Judith,

You're sweet and I appreciate that!

10761. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 4:19:38 PM

Because the guy has on a blow up shirt?

10762. PsychProf - 8/20/2001 4:20:00 PM

The guy is 4' 8" "tall"?

10763. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 4:20:38 PM

Oh, I've been meaning to ask..what do you think about the Rock and his wife having a little Pebbles?

10764. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:23:19 PM

well, the Rock (I call him Dwayne) and I decided that we could only be friends, and so I was happy when I heard about his nuptials and then his baby.

P.s. Both you and PP nailed the reasons as to why I laugh at that picture!

10765. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:23:54 PM

The Rock is only 29 years old. That depresses me.

10766. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:27:39 PM

In case you can't tell, I've been itching to let loose the Panty boyZ. Until I'm granted permission, you'll have to occasionally deal with silly pics. Like this one of the guy named Crab.

10767. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 4:28:29 PM

I think the Rock is cool; he has that flair for self promotion that ought to take him far in show biz.

10768. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 4:30:10 PM

The crab looks neutered.

10769. DanDillon - 8/20/2001 4:33:55 PM

Oh, what fun! Let's post lists of what everyone has in their fridge right at this very moment.

If the contents of your fridge are too numerous to list, then just give the highlights.

If you do not have a fridge, then get yourself out of that squalor (and tell us what you ate for your last meal).

10770. DanDillon - 8/20/2001 4:34:27 PM

Btw, I think you have a very nice body, Jen. And I know.

10771. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:36:52 PM

Dan,

So, what's in yer fridge?

10772. ScottLoar - 8/20/2001 4:40:54 PM

I am almost resolved to show a picture of myself, at leisure in my living room, if Jenerator posts a picture of herself, a picture of the same type that has demented DanDillon.

10773. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:42:05 PM

More fun than taking a fridge inventory.....let's talk about where Crab's willy is. Does he have one, if so, where?

10774. DanDillon - 8/20/2001 4:43:16 PM

The current contents of DanDillon's fridge (because you're dying to know):

Apple sauce
Cheater's garlic (chopped, in a jar)
Green olives
Yogurt
Milk
Chicken
Capers
Eggs
Sour cream
Cheeses (various)
Orange juice
Ketchup
Mustard
Pickle relish
Bar-b-que sauce
Heinz 57
Salad dressing (various)
Bread
Butter
Jellies & jams (various
Chutney
Bacon
Lettuce
Limes
Green pepper
Scallions
Carrots
Half n' half
Soda
Cranberry juice
Non-alcoholic beer
White wine
Mayonnaise
Tortillas
Cottage cheese
Peaches
Salsa Guacamole
Tomato juice
Muffins (various)

So, what does that say about me, hmm?

10775. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:43:20 PM

Dan,

I have no idea how to post that pic of me. I have to see Scott in his 18th Century garb.

10776. DanDillon - 8/20/2001 4:45:35 PM

ScottLoar,

You will find me pictured, in all my splendor, here.

10777. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 4:46:08 PM

Dan has BBQ sauce AND salsa guacamole. I man after my own heart!

10778. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 5:02:03 PM

In my fridge:

Eggs
Turkey
Sausage
Various cheeses
Pimento Cheese
Fat free Skim Milk
Orange Juice
Club Soda
Applesauce
Butter
Orange Marmalade
Mango Chutney
Capers
Jack Daniels Mustard
6 kinds of salad dressing
Hellmans Mayonaise
Cheaters Garlic
Cheaters Ginger
Romaine Lettuce
Carrots
Celery
Fresh Dates
Pickles
Pickled Asparagus
Pickled Mushrooms
Pickled Ginger
Apple Butter
Pumpkin Butter
Peach Butter
Acidolphilus Capsules

10779. ScottLoar - 8/20/2001 5:29:39 PM

I never knew Toulouse-Lautrec painted Oscar Wilde!

10780. ScottLoar - 8/20/2001 5:30:18 PM

If I listed the contents of our refrigerator you'd all think I'm lyin'.

10781. DanDillon - 8/20/2001 5:31:12 PM

Humor us.

10782. Jenerator - 8/20/2001 5:44:39 PM

Toulouse-Lautrec is one of my absolute favorite artists!

10783. ScottLoar - 8/20/2001 5:46:56 PM

I tried a list but the very number of items daunts me to helplessness. Again, we've got some items none but a Chinese housewife would believe and some few others that even I can't identify. The number of items staggers me, for the biggest thing in the fridge is a half-gallon of 2% milk and two pots of Chinese soup (one made from free-range chicken and preserved pineapple from Taiwan); the smallest is probably three different varieties of Wisconsin cheese, left-over breakfast sausage, and some cilantro.

I mean it, better that the public pore over my wife's underwear drawer than I confess to the full contents of our refrigerator.

10784. ScottLoar - 8/20/2001 5:48:38 PM

Maybe I should reconsider that.

10785. JudithAtHome - 8/20/2001 5:49:51 PM

I forgot chicken broth and tofu....

10786. Ms. No - 8/20/2001 6:18:14 PM

Brita water filter
Non-fat milk
half & half
green onions
cilantro
romaine lettuce
ginger root
2 jars of kosher dills
small wedge of hard Dublin cheese
3 Hornsby's Ciders
3 pkg mixed greens, cabbage & carrots
Pesto Chicken sausage
Roated garlic turkey sausage
1/2 stick of butter
mini-carafe of olive oil w/garlic & herbs
3/4 liter of Coke
yellow mustard
brown mustard
balsamic vinegar
raspberry vinegar
soy sauce
caesar dressing
fuzzy forgotten wedge of cheddar in crisper
leftovers from roommate's family's take-out

oh yeah, and 1 pkg AAA batteries

10787. Ms. No - 8/20/2001 6:23:43 PM

Anybody got a recipe for Cuban garlic sauce?

I'm trying to figure out what the local Cuban place puts in theirs because the stuff is amazing but I can't quite figure it out.

I know there's garlic, lemon, white onion and black pepper in it.

I suspect that they start with chicken broth and also add a little vinegar but I really honestly don't know.

It's also got a strange consistency ----it's thicker than plain broth but it's still pretty clear and there aren't any very visible particles in it. It's about the consistency of olive oil but it's not particularly oily.

good god what is this stuff??????

10788. Absensia - 8/20/2001 6:35:09 PM

Ms.No,
I have a recipe with sour, Seveille Oranges...will send it to your mote address.

10789. Ms. No - 8/20/2001 6:51:28 PM

Oooh! Thanks!

send here:

bridgeburner99@yahoo.com

10790. Absensia - 8/20/2001 7:11:31 PM

oops, too late..sent it to mote moderator address indicating it was for you...do you need me to resend it?

10791. Absensia - 8/20/2001 7:12:29 PM

Did anyway....

10792. Jenerator - 8/21/2001 11:13:55 AM

We need to have one of the refridgerator specialists come and analyze us. Supposedly they can tell by what we have, what type of eaters we are and what kind of personalities we have.

10793. Ms. No - 8/21/2001 11:30:00 AM

Thanks, 'sensia!

Generally only Wabbit has access to the moderator@themote addy.

Jen,

Who are they?

10794. Jenerator - 8/21/2001 11:33:02 AM

Christin,

I'm not sure actually. I saw a show featuring food analysts one time. I guess I'll have to keep it the ever elusive "they".;-)

10795. Ms. No - 8/21/2001 11:35:29 AM

Dang. I thought maybe we had a couple here in the Mote.

Instead of reading tea leaves and telling the future they could read the mold on the leftovers!

10796. Absensia - 8/21/2001 11:35:36 AM

Ms No,

If those aren't close and can't be tweaked, let me know, there are a couple of sites I can check out.
Now I'm hungry for Cuban food...ahhhhh.

10797. Ms. No - 8/21/2001 11:45:18 AM

Both of those recipes look excellent! I'll have to try them this weekend.

Yum!

10798. Absensia - 8/21/2001 11:48:36 AM

Great, let me know how they turn out!!!

10799. Laura C - 8/21/2001 12:01:54 PM

Let's see:

garlicky roasted chicken thighs,
green bean, goat cheese and tomato salad,
tomato-onion-and-pepper casserole,
fresh mayonnaise,
grape tomatoes,
carrots,
kale for the bunnies,
half a salad-in-a-bag,
cheddar, mozzarella, feta, Appalachian Jack, Asiago, and Irish cheeses,
small bottle calf rennet,
2% milk,
butter,
chocolate pudding,
brown eggs,
tofu bought in a fit of optimism 6 months ago,
mustard, soy sauce,
tomato juice, beer, Diet Coke.

10800. CalGal - 8/21/2001 12:42:08 PM

Wow, I quit buying a lot of food a while back--Spawn is at his dad's half time and I find that too much of it goes bad.

Diet Caffeine Free Coke (always)
Tillamook Cheese
Tortillas
Few bottles of beer
Dijon mustard, mayonnaise
Random bottled sauces
lettuce
carrots
apples
butter
eggs

I don't put tomatoes in the refrigerator.

10801. DanDillon - 8/21/2001 12:57:04 PM

I'd like to eat chez Laura C.

10802. Adrianne - 8/21/2001 1:02:20 PM

Milk
OJ
Lemonade
Margarita mix
Wine
american cheese, feta cheese, mozz, swiss
hotdogs
salmon (for tonight's grill)
tomatoes marinating in olive oil and basil
juice boxes
ketsup
regular mustard
grainy mustard
jack daniels mustard
bbq sauce
soy sauce
wine vinegar
3 tubes of instant breadsticks
a cut-up honeydew
sliced turkey
bologna
shark
chocolate sauce
butterscotch sauce
walnut sauce
maple syrup
marinated cabbage
3 kinds of hot sauce
4 kinds of pickled peppers
dill pickles
sour cream
left-over jasmine rice
left-over pate
lettuce
radishes
cucumber
summer squash
cut-up onion
left-over turkey breast & gravy
a teeny jar of caviar for IF
3 kinds of salad dressing
2 kinds of baby puree

I think that's it. No beer, oddly.

Personally, I like the juxtaposition of bologna and cavier. From that, it's easy to tell that I have a 13 year old boy and a spoiled rotten husband, I think.

And a toddler (juice boxes).

10803. Francis Urquhart - 8/21/2001 1:08:28 PM

Velveeta
Cream soda
Human head
Baking soda
Salt water taffy

10804. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 1:09:49 PM

Fu:

So what I expected from you...but, no fava beans?

10805. thoughtful - 8/21/2001 1:36:51 PM

Laura, What's calf rennet?

10806. Wombat - 8/21/2001 1:43:24 PM

Hmm:

Orange juice
1% Milk
Brita pitcher
Seltzer water
Reisling wine
Salmon steaks (defrosting)
Maple syrup
Yogurt
Broccoli
Asparagus
Cabbage
Carrots
Red/Green peppers
Blueberries
Grapes
Blackberries
Peanut butter
Grape jam
Capers
Pickled peppers
Chutney
Capers
Mustard
Catsup
Soy sauce
Teriyaki sauce
7 grain bread
Chocolate pudding cups
Danimals
String cheese, Bonbel mini edams, Smoked Gouda, 5 yr aged sharp cheddar, Parmesan (ungrated), Pecorino (grated)
Eggs
Butter
Tomato paste (tube)
Color film
Batteries
Neuchatel cheese (for dog's pills, mostly)
Sliced ham

10807. bubbaette - 8/21/2001 1:45:27 PM

I think that calf rennet is the lining of a calf's stomach and is used to make cheese.

10808. Adrianne - 8/21/2001 1:47:34 PM

Wombat - we both be eatin' salmon tonight!

And I forgot - a 1/2 empty 40 oz of flat malt liquor.

10809. janjon - 8/21/2001 1:51:26 PM

what are instant breadsticks?

10810. janjon - 8/21/2001 1:52:10 PM

What are Danimals?

10811. marjoribanks - 8/21/2001 1:52:43 PM

Cool game.

I'd play, but my fridge is always just too full to list all the items, the condiments alone would take up more space than some of the lists here.

10812. Absensia - 8/21/2001 1:53:26 PM

smoked salmon
cream cheese
cheeses..parm,cheddar, feta, fontina
mustards...about 8..from ball park to grained, spicy to burning.
yogart...raspberry and lime
bacon
lamb chops
honeydew melon
corn
bbq sauce
several hot sauces
nonfat milk
butter
horseradish
ginger
romane
aspargras
dill pickles
chutney
celery
carrots
fresh linguine
white wine
catsup
Russian rye bread
diet coke
tortillas

10813. PsychProf - 8/21/2001 1:54:52 PM

Where you don't knead slow dough.

10814. Laura C - 8/21/2001 1:55:04 PM

Bubbaette is exactly right. Left over from my cheesemaking fit last summer, before I realized that I was spending umpteen dollars and hours for unimpressive results. Now I go to Trader Joe's.

Wombat, your dog must have very good taste.

10815. Adrianne - 8/21/2001 1:55:20 PM

marj

Yeah, I gave up on trying to remember the condiments and sauces.

jajon
They're these little tubes of bread dough. You stick em in the oven and you get some nasty old breadsticks. The kids love them.

10816. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 1:59:51 PM

I'm surprised at people keeping soy sauce and maple syrup in the fridge...and vinegars, too. Maybe there's something I don't know but we've never, in 20 years, kept those things in the fridge.

10817. janjon - 8/21/2001 2:01:38 PM

maple syrup usually has a "warning" on the bottle advising to keep it refrigerated after opening. I agree with you about soy sauce and vinegars.

10818. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 2:03:24 PM

Well, if Keon and I croak, check to see if we had pancakes the night before...we never chill the Log Cabin.

10819. janjon - 8/21/2001 2:12:40 PM

judith - I am shocked. Log Cabin isn't maple syrup. Obviously the preservatives it has in abundance make it shelf-worthy.

10820. PsychProf - 8/21/2001 2:14:58 PM

My family farm had a side business in maple syrup...great March fun.

10821. Absensia - 8/21/2001 2:17:30 PM

Real maple syrup is sooo wonderful.

I don't refridgerate soy or vinegar either.
And forgot about mayo and some chipotles in adobo that I mushed up with garlic and parsely and toss in eggs and sauces.

10822. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 2:19:24 PM

I was using that as a generic name because I'm too lazy to go to the pantry and see what the name is on the jug brought to us from Maine...

10823. janjon - 8/21/2001 2:24:46 PM

yeah, sure, Judith.

10824. CalGal - 8/21/2001 2:27:05 PM

I don't like real maple syrup. I don't much enjoy log cabin, either, but if I must put syrup on it I prefer the flavored syrup to the real thing.

I have maple syrup in my pantry for cooking, though.

10825. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 2:27:43 PM

Your cynicism has driven me to the kitchen, janjon... Sweetmeadow Farms Maple Syrup but it's from New Hampshire, not Maine. Those dogs! They said they got it in Maine!

10826. janjon - 8/21/2001 2:29:57 PM

put it in the fridge, kid.

10827. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 2:31:32 PM

Too late...it's almost empty. Guess I should throw it out; be a shame if the last serving killed us after all this time...

10828. Shannon - 8/21/2001 2:32:03 PM

You stick em in the oven and you get some nasty old breadsticks. The kids love them.

Maybe that can be the basis of their next ad campaign.

My soy sauce says to refrigerate. I don't know why. But I do it for some reason--I'm not usually so compliant.

OK, here's what I can think of:
Half a bag of "spring mix" bagged salad
Turnips
Broccoli
Baby carrots
Apples--some Granny Smith, some Red Delicious
Oranges
1/2 a canteloupe
Beer (Abita Amber)
A bunch of Breyer's blueberry yogurt
Cool whip
Chocolate pudding
Tofu dogs
Tofu bologna
Cheddar cheese
Sliced American cheese
Shredded Parmesan
Organic butter
Margarine
Water--Brita pitcher
Store version of V-8 Splash
OJ
Sprite and Coke--not normal for us
Flour tortillas
Salsa
4-5 kinds of salad dressing
Relish
Sliced dill pickles
Spicy brown mustard
Sweet & sour sauce
Tahini
Soy sauce
Terriaki sauce
Rice milk
Jelly
Juice boxes (OJ is the current selection)
Raisins
Daiquiri mix (another oddity)
Lemon juice
Assorted leftovers
Baking soda

Some other stuff I'm forgetting, no doubt.

10829. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 2:32:21 PM

Anyhow, I'm off to the store and I will buy some fancy syrup and promise to chill it after opening.

10830. Shannon - 8/21/2001 2:34:00 PM

We use cane syrup, which I don't put in the fridge.

Oh, I have a few eggs too, and some jalapeno peppers.

10831. CalGal - 8/21/2001 2:34:37 PM

I don't buy anything that doesn't keep; I realized it was cheaper for me to eat out or shop at the last minute than it was to spend a lot of money on big shopping trips and having a lot of the food go bad.

10832. janjon - 8/21/2001 2:34:55 PM

gotta believe you peeked at the label. Does it say to Refrigerate after Opening?

10833. janjon - 8/21/2001 2:36:58 PM

the eyes-are-bigger-than-the-stomach-when-it-comes-to-foodstuffs-rotting is an especially apt saying when it comes to sauntering around farmers' markets or cute/bucolic farm stands. One is always buying a few too many of this and that.

10834. Wombat - 8/21/2001 2:50:44 PM

Danimals are yogurts for kids: cartoon characters, single serving, combination flavored, excessively sweet.

I am turning against keeping leftovers in the fridge. If there is a lot left over, put it the freezer, if not, toss it. Otherwise they get forgotten and turn into what Mrs. Wombat calls "science experiments."

Honey does not have to be refrigerated. I haven't bought "table" or "pancake" syrup in decades. I love maple syrup on oatmeal, on any kind of pancake, and on the challah french toast I make every saturday. Then sopping up what's leftover with really sharp cheddar cheese....

10835. CalGal - 8/21/2001 3:06:07 PM

Janjon,

Yep. I love produce. Once I found that too much of it was going bad, I started sticking to apples and carrots--and then I always have tomatoes in the house, although usually the last one or two will go bad by the time I've bought more. I did go bonkers over mango nectarines over the summer, but we wolfed those down so quickly they didn't go bad.

The other thing I buy during the summer is watermelon; one of Spawn's jobs is to open it and spoon it out into tupperware containers, so it will keep for several days.

10836. janjon - 8/21/2001 3:08:14 PM

watermelon will stay good what seems like an amazingly long time - even after cut. You have to cover the open flesh parts with something like saran wrap though.

10837. thoughtful - 8/21/2001 3:17:50 PM

calf guts? ewww.

10838. DanDillon - 8/21/2001 3:33:46 PM

This has turned out to be an exceedingly fascinating exercise. Everyone who has been brave enough to list the contents of their fridge is baring their soul, little perhaps do they know. Items seem to line up perfectly with each Motie --no surprise. And as a collective whole, we're so damn smart, aren't we?...

I went out to the store a few minutes ago and picked up two gallons of milk, a couple of cans of chicken broth, and a lottery ticket. I'm gonna win that $192,000,000 dammit!

10839. Jenerator - 8/21/2001 3:43:36 PM

I've never understood it when people put peanut butter in the fridge. It turns into a brick when chilled.

Also, we have four different kinds of butter, but we keep one covered butter dish out, so it spreads easily.

10840. Absensia - 8/21/2001 3:47:03 PM

Jen,
If the PB is fresh and unpasturized, I'll put it in the fridge in hot weather; if it's paturized I leave it out. Same thing with raw or wild honey that has not been pasturized.

10841. CalGal - 8/21/2001 3:48:00 PM

Natural peanut butter doesn't turn bricklike, and that's the only kind I buy. Even though the very few times I really crave peanut butter I want Skippy.

10842. Jenerator - 8/21/2001 3:55:52 PM

Donny's grandmother wanted EVERYTHING in the fridge including the pb (Jiffy), potatoes, and all unopened cans of anything. Now that she's no longer here, it has been cleaned up a bit.

10843. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 4:10:50 PM

I'm back from the store and have all sorts of goodies...no more tofu at the store so I got Keoni fresh udon noodles for his breakfast soup.

And yes, I did read the label...and yes, it did say that. No good looking syrup at the store, either. I'm going to hold out til the Central Mkt. opens and get some spectacular maple syrup.

Tonight, we are having Big Salad...with turkey, feta cheese, tomatoes, cucumber, garbanzo beans, mushrooms, and celery. Romaine and curly lettuce, too.

10844. HollyW - 8/21/2001 4:20:39 PM

Tonight we are having a piece of chicken sausage I cooked up a couple days ago, mashed potato, and the green beans before they cry their last (they're starting to get spotty). This is for me and Sprout, my husband works evenings.

I love fresh produce. Picking it out is my reward for going shopping. It does turn too quickly, though. Also, things like peaches, nectarines, and apples make my mouth itch and swell, and since my husband isn't too clear on fruits and vegetables being something that people really can eat, and Sprout being a toddler, I always have food rotting in the crisper drawer. I like the thought of buying a peach to eat...but I can't actually eat it. Ah well.

10845. HollyW - 8/21/2001 4:21:44 PM

Er, needless to say, I'm not an enthusiastic cook. I swear the sausage is still edible, though, I do know that much.

10846. Jenerator - 8/21/2001 4:34:02 PM

i have no idea what's for dinner tonight, and I'm starving.

Judith,

When you lived in Germany did you leave the eggs in the pantry like I did in England?

10847. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 4:38:01 PM

Jen:

Sure did...they had all those cute little egg baskets just for that purpose.

10848. Jenerator - 8/21/2001 4:52:13 PM

Heck our kitchen was so cold we could have left the milk out and it would have been fine.

I hate to say this, but I miss Canterbury like you wouldn't believe.

10849. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 4:56:45 PM

I miss Germany, too...our townhouse had a marble staircase leading down to the basement and up to the second floor and I swore we could just toss the packaged meant either direction and it would've stayed fresh.

10850. janjon - 8/21/2001 4:58:53 PM

I was going to say - there is a reason why you can leave eggs in the pantry in much of Europe.

Our house in London is numbing from about December 1 - April 1. No matter how much we have now invested in heating upgrades, it just never stays warm.

10851. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 5:00:32 PM

Well, the main reason you can do that is the eggs have never been refrigerated in Europe.

10852. janjon - 8/21/2001 5:02:34 PM

judith - with all due respect, I consider your 10851 to be in the which came first, the chicken or egg category.

10853. Jenerator - 8/21/2001 5:05:31 PM

JanJon,

I will have to post some pictures for you, but our house in Canterbury was on the grounds of St. Augustine's abbey and the cathedral was right outside of our backyard. We had a lovely garden and a very spacious home. I do not miss my roommates (except for one) but I miss my scholarship counselor and his family and the friends I made, and the lovely countryside fiercely. Kent was the prettiest part of England.

Whereabouts in London do you live? My cousins live in Kensington Park. Is that near you?

10854. JudithAtHome - 8/21/2001 5:09:41 PM

janjon:

I probably worded that wrong but what I meant was, when you purchase them at the store, they haven't been chilled, thus you don't have to refrigerate then at your house.

10855. janjon - 8/21/2001 5:13:04 PM

I live in NYC now, jenerator. We lived in London for two periods of slightly more than a year each starting about 10 years ago, right after our son was born.

We bought a house (well, actually a very long, like 86 years) leasehold) in Chelsea. So, not too far from Kensington Park.

We've kept it and although it has been leased to others from time to time, it is now empty except when one or the other or both of us is/are there.

10856. glendajean - 8/21/2001 6:29:36 PM

When produce and fruit (uncooked) goes bad, take it outside, dig a hole next to a perennial, a rosebush, or other plants, bury it, and cover it in dirt. Your soil will immediately improve, the earthworms will flock to eat on the munchies, and your garbage bag won't sag as much as you take it out to the curb.

I usually use the shovel to chop it up a bit before I cover the hole with dirt.

10857. ScottLoar - 8/21/2001 7:23:06 PM

Take all wet, vegetable garbage (most especially peelings, fruit and coffee grounds) and never, never throw it into the garbage can but bury it about 8 inches below the earth surface. In time you will have a larder of good, rich earth. Dog dirt helps the process along as well; when you're obliged to scoop it up after the mystery persons have walked their dogs on your property bury that dog dirt.

10858. HollyW - 8/21/2001 9:34:01 PM

We had a compost pile where we used to live. There is pretty much no earth to mess with where we are now, sadly. It's 95% asphalt on our property.

10859. HollyW - 8/21/2001 9:59:14 PM

My fridge:

Organic Cow whole milk
Brita pitcher of water
V8
grapes--some past their prime
strawberries
blueberries
a cantaloupe
green beans--no longer edible
summer squash--ditto
broccoli
tomatoes
a peach
Trader Joe's apple-raspberry sauce
Thai peanut sauce
various hot sauces that I don't mess with
juice boxes
apple butter
Brummel and Brown spread
butter
eggs
cheddar cheese
Smartdogs
leftover chicken
bread
pickles
ketchup
mustard--the brown kind
horseradish
a jar of roasted peppers
a bag of carrots
bottled lemon juice
brown sugar
maple syrup--one bottle full, one empty but it's decorative so we haven't gotten around to dealing with it yet
3 kinds of salad dressing

...hmm, obviously we put everything in the fridge.

10860. theDiva - 8/22/2001 9:17:58 AM

what's in my refrigerator? Hmmmmm.....

V-8 (calcium enriched)
Orange juice (calcium enriched)
Skim milk
12 containers of pina colada yogurt
1/2 container of whole milk ricotta
1 1/2 dozen eggs
neufchatel cheese
dry popcorn kernels
an open box of baking soda
nectarines
red seedless grapes
Arnold Oatnut bread
celery
baby carrots
lemons
limes
provolone, sliced
Virginia ham, sliced
chicken breast, sliced
yellow onions
red onions
several bulbs of garlic
marinated artichokes
roasted red peppers
green olives
black olives
horseradish mustard
half a bottle of red bordeaux
half a bottle of sparkling white wine (euphemistically referred to as champagne)
ranch dressing
worcestershire sauce
dark soy sauce
teriyaki sauce
sichuan hot sauce
seedless red raspberry preserves
Goya coffee (caffeinated and decaffeinated)

I forget what else.

10861. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 9:25:03 AM

Get thet red wine outta there!

10862. theDiva - 8/22/2001 9:26:43 AM

well, it's open already, the weather here has been beastly, and I only use it for cooking.

Usually a red doesn't last more than a day or two in our house anyway, but since I'm BFing I don't indulge as I used to.

10863. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 9:43:44 AM

I wonder how much some grocery chain and food manufacturers would pay for info like this...what America stores in its refrigerators.

10864. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 9:45:20 AM

How do you get an elephant in a refrigerator?

You open up the door, put the elephant in and shut the door.

How do you get a giraffe in the refrigerator. You don't just open up the door and put him in....

....you've got to take the elephant out first! Sheesh. Everyone knows there's no room for an elephant AND a giraffe in a refrigerator!

10865. theDiva - 8/22/2001 9:49:11 AM

this is a cool exercise. Only Urk's list made me laugh, though.

Now, what do youse have in your pantries? Hmmmmmmm?????/

10866. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 10:03:11 AM

Me?

Simple.

I have the head of a small child who talked back to me, the arm of a stranger who rudely bumped into me, the finger of a teenage boy who made the mistake of flipping it at me, and the dog next door who used to leave me presents all over the lawn.

OOPS! Correct that. We had the dog for dinner last night.

10867. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 10:04:18 AM

Actually, it's a combo of reading too many grizzly murder stories and the fact that I'm really pissed at one of our suppliers who violated our contract and I just found out....Someone is going to get eaten alive today.

10868. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:06:00 AM

hahahahaha

Economists. Ever frugal.

I have so much in my pantries, I don't think I could list it all.

10869. Absensia - 8/22/2001 10:06:01 AM

Thoughtful,

"We had the dog for dinner last night."

Pan fried poodle?

10870. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:07:15 AM

gosh, what did we have for dinner last night?

Oh yes. Greg bought take-out from Giant...rotisserie chicken, three-potato salad, and romaine salad. Yummy.

10871. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 10:11:10 AM

Can't list my pantry. Wouldn't be prudent.

10872. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:11:47 AM

hhhhmmmmm.......

10873. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 10:15:16 AM

The salad I made last night was fantastic!

10874. Absensia - 8/22/2001 10:18:04 AM

It sounded like it would be, Judith. If it warms up here, I think I'll make something similar.

Meanwhile, it's dank and rainy. I'm thinking french onion soup....ahhhh. Or, tomato and basil soup. It's definitely a soup day.

10875. Laura C - 8/22/2001 10:18:37 AM

I wonder how much some grocery chain and food manufacturers would pay for info like this...what America stores in its refrigerators.

They've got us categorized already:

Enter your zip code and find your lifestyle segment!

10876. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 10:23:46 AM

That was too depressing...we certainly don't live down to the standards of our area code!

10877. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 10:25:24 AM

Actually, what would be more telling than the pantry would be the freezer. What have we taken the time to save and freeze?

10878. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 10:26:06 AM

Wiener Spitzel
Beagle with cream cheese
Bichon Freeze
Boxer Crackers
Cockapoo poo platter
Cur-ried rice
Egg Schnoodles
Sealyham and eggs
Whippet Potatoes

10879. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:27:54 AM

expressed breastmilk
filet mignon
skinless boneless chicken breasts
broccoli
ice cream
london broil
ground beef, veal, and pork for meat loaf
six different kinds of veggie burgers
spinach
french-cut green beans
pork loin
center cut boneless pork chops
ice pops
cold packs
corn

10880. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 10:29:08 AM

Ah ha! I always suspected that of you!

10881. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:31:04 AM

Thoughtful

what's up with all that dogmeat, girl?

10882. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:31:27 AM

man, that lifestyle thing is scarily accurate.

10883. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 10:31:41 AM

Freezer's easy, mine's small.

3 lbs catfish
6 lbs salmon steaks
7 lbs (approx) top sirloin
2 lbs ocean perch
5 lbs (approx) bonesless, skinless chk breasts
3 lbs bone-in chicken breasts
broccoli
greenbeans
turnip greens
sweet baby peas
mustard greens
frozen french fried potatoes
ice cream
ice

Some Very Weird Convenience Food that I don't know the name of but bought by request of SS.

chicken nuggets
meatballs
burritos
fruit yogurt

hmmmm, I think that's it. Like I said, small freezer.

10884. Shannon - 8/22/2001 10:32:47 AM

I checked my fridge last night. I didn't forget much. 4 ears of corn, my grandma's fig preserves.

Freezer:
Corn on the cob
Corn kernels (can you tell my kid likes corn?)
Peas
Popsicles
Blue Bell Dutch Chocolate ice cream
Morningstar farms sausage patties & links
Biscuits
Yogurt snacks (like go-gurt, but organic)
Bread
More soy bologna
Waffles--store brand blueberry and Pokemon
Homeade lentil soup
Blueberries
Strawberries
Chopped onion
Boca smoked sausage

10885. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:32:53 AM

oh yeah, and fish! Ad reminded me.

10886. Shannon - 8/22/2001 10:33:18 AM

Oh, we have either fries or tater tots--not sure which.

10887. Absensia - 8/22/2001 10:33:59 AM

Love it,Thoughtful...but what's that one wrapped package? Looks like a leg, and I don't mean lamb.

10888. Shannon - 8/22/2001 10:34:10 AM

We also have fake chicken nuggets.
And ice.

10889. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:34:19 AM

Kid food! Guess I'll be heading into tater tot territory (say THAT three times fast) soon enough.

10890. Shannon - 8/22/2001 10:35:50 AM

I think we have about half a bag of ravioli too.

And speaking of kid food, there's a whole lot of mac-n-cheese in my pantry. We buy it in 12-packs at Sam's.

10891. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:38:50 AM

Ramen noodles. Gracie loves 'em.

10892. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 10:41:08 AM

We still have leftovers from Donny's grandmother in our freezer (the kiddie stuff is all hers!).

tater tots
three children's frozen meals
popsicles
toaster strudels
----------------------------
brisket
country style pork ribs (for tonight)
chicken breasts
chicken drumettes
sugar snap peas
vegetable mixes
three different types of coffee
strawberries
rasberries
mixed fruit
four different kinds of ice cream

10893. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:42:04 AM

oh God, ice cream. Ben and Jerry's is on sale for half price at Giant this week and of course my husband went crazy.

10894. Shannon - 8/22/2001 10:43:15 AM

four different kinds of ice cream

That's impressive. We ususally have 2, sometimes 3. Until 2 days ago we had Caramel Sundae Crunch in addition to the chocolate.

Popcorn, that's what else we have. And a couple of spices of some sort.

10895. Absensia - 8/22/2001 10:43:40 AM

Freezer:
Raspberries
lots of 1/3rd loaves of bread I didn't want to go to waste
steak
flank steak
hamburger
chicken breasts
pork loin steaks
chorizo sausage
habanero sausage
hot italian sausage
meatballs
shrimp
ice cream
crabcakes
homemade chili
rump roast

10896. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 10:45:27 AM

We have spimoni, mint chocolate chip, jamocha almond fudge (my favorite!) and homemade vanilla.

10897. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 10:45:33 AM

Freezer:

Cream Puffs
Pork tenderloin
Turkey Breast
Cheese log
Bag meals...don't ask
Various frozen veggies
Broccoli
Corn&Peppers
Chinese StirFry Vegs
Spinach
Brussels Sprouts
Steak
Grilled chicken strips
Mango chunks
Red Raspberries
Ice pack
Bread
Box of excellent Greek canapes

10898. Adrianne - 8/22/2001 10:45:43 AM

I have the only toddler in the world who won't eat mac-n-cheese.

I didn't forget too much on the fridge front yesterday, but I have a ton of eggs - I bake a lot - and butter, too.

10900. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 10:49:35 AM

Judith,

Do you use the Belgian cream puffs that freeze? I love them and so I don't buy them. I am not able to controllably snack on sweet stuff, so I don't buy it.

I'm terrible!!

I can't have candy in candy dishes or I'll eat it all. The last time I bought some of those Ferrer Rocher thingys at Christmas time, I ate every single one of them in one sitting. Then I hated myself for a while.

I envy those people who can have cute little candies in their homes.

10901. Absensia - 8/22/2001 10:52:11 AM

Wow Jen, I don't buy sweet things, and for the very same reason. Thought I was the only one.

10902. marshame - 8/22/2001 10:53:52 AM

Well, buster and I only have a deep freezer so we keep the important stuff in it like beer. We keep it in vats with names. That and the party favors we can re-use.

10903. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 10:53:57 AM

I can't have even ugly little candies in my house! I'm so thankful we'll be gone on Halloween this year.

Those Cream Puffs are the little bite sized ones and they are for Keoni...I'm not that crazy about them.

10904. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:54:04 AM

forgot the butter, dammit. I always do.

I'm not as tempted by sweets as I am by crunchy, salty things. I made the unfortunate mistake of buying one of those bags of 'gourmet' chips - Yukon Gold potatoes with salt and pepper on them. Oh my.

10905. theDiva - 8/22/2001 10:54:23 AM

MARSHA!!!!!!!!

10906. Absensia - 8/22/2001 10:56:40 AM

I get the spice and salt urges too, sigh.

Marsha...you freeze your beer?

10907. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 10:57:43 AM

Absensia,

I can't even lie to myself anymore! I'll buy chocolate chips to make cookies for "other people", and I eat them all.

10908. marshame - 8/22/2001 11:00:30 AM

Don't everyone freeze beer? Buster and I make beer popsicles for the road here in Texas. Going state to state on a motorcycle gets hot!

10909. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 11:01:13 AM

Jen:

Did you ever get the Raspberry Chocolate Chips? They made them one winter and I bought almost a case of them because I made brownies with raspberry chocolate chips for everyone for Christmas. They never made them again...they were so sinful, it was a crime they let us have SOME and then, NONE.

10910. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:02:53 AM

Works for me, Marsha, but nope..never heard about it...I'll just go put a can in the freezer right now..ummhmm.

Jen, sigh...I do the same...love that dark chocolate. But if M&Ms are around then I'll eat them unless I put super glue on my dentures!

10911. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:04:06 AM

Oooooohhhh, is there anything better than chocolate and raspberry?

10912. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 11:06:22 AM

Judith,

Did you know that Godiva makes ice cream? Try the rasberry truffle, it's heavenly!

Unfortunately I missed the chips you speak of. I guarantee you, I would have eaten them all.

Absensia,

I don't even like M & Ms, but I'll eat them all if they're around!;-)

What's wrong with me?

10913. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 11:06:56 AM

I like orange with chocolate too.

10914. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:10:03 AM

Jen,
Orange is good too...almost everything is good with chocolate. I love Godiva ice cream.

I think it's hormonal...don't see any men folk in here discussing their...errr..urges, for food, I mean.

10915. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:11:25 AM

I have tastes that don't match other peoples so when I find a product I love, it usually disappears quickly and I'm sunk:

key lime yogurt
reverse chocolate chip ice cream: chocolate ice cream with white chocolate chips
cheese-filled pastry puffs
weight watchers mocha pie

10916. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:11:46 AM

and low-fat chocolate chip cookies by entennmanns

10917. marshame - 8/22/2001 11:14:07 AM

Buster don't like no sweet stuff besides me. Says it's all sissy food.

10918. marjoribanks - 8/22/2001 11:16:37 AM

I like ice-cream. To revert slightly the fridge listings, we always have several tubs sitting around.

Currently:

Mango (from an Indian store)
Green Tea (Japanese, brand name Maeda-An)
Giant tub of "light" vanilla (for milkshakes and smoothies)
2 tubs of Ben and Jerry's
3 Haagen-Dazs 'dulce de leche' ice-cream bars

10919. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:17:10 AM

Freezing beer? don't they burst?

10920. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 11:17:18 AM

I loved key lime yogurt, too!

I can take or leave Godiva stuff...it's over priced considering there's other stuff out there that is just as good or better.

I like HagenDas chocolate sorbet, mango sorbet, and raspeberry sorbet. I've served a small scoop of the chocolate, a small scoop of the raspberry, fresh raspberries, and a Pims choco/raspberry wafer as dessert before to great acclaim.

10921. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 11:17:54 AM

You can do the same substituting orange sorbet and wafer...

10922. marshame - 8/22/2001 11:18:50 AM

thoughtful,

That's why we pour it all into the old milk containers, so the beer will keep longer. Duh!

10923. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:19:55 AM

I love sorbet and cookies for dessert, especially after a heavy meal...just hits the spot.

I have a recipe for making sorbet at home without an ice cream maker and have yet to try it...it involves freezing canned fruit and then doing something with it quickly before serving...I'll have to try it some time.

10924. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:20:20 AM

Sounds wonderful, Judith.

I love mango ice cream. It's even better than the sorbet.

Thoughtful,
I think beer would burst, but that's not what Marsha says.

10925. theDiva - 8/22/2001 11:21:07 AM

Anyone ever have the Haagen-Dasz gelato? Not bad at all.

10926. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:21:39 AM

Milk cartons? Don't those make awfully big popsicles?

10927. Shannon - 8/22/2001 11:22:31 AM

Mmmm..... mango.

10928. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 11:22:50 AM

Abs,

Even weirder is that I won't eat all of the ice cream in one sitting. That stuff can stay in my freezer for eternity. I love good ice cream, but I don't gobble it all down like snacks.

10929. marshame - 8/22/2001 11:23:55 AM

This is Texas, Absensia!

10930. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:24:06 AM

Burp!

Just ate my supplier. Got 'em jumping...just how I like 'em.

Much better now.

Anyone else want to sell me something?

(Hee hee hee)

10931. marjoribanks - 8/22/2001 11:24:06 AM

If you like mango ice-cream I highly recommend you visit an Indian store (though haagen-Dazs does a good one). You'll find ice-cream made from Alphonse mangoes, which are so vastly superior to the S.American ones on the market here that they could be a different fruit altogether.

And if you are really lucky, the store will carry mango kulfi, which is a outrageously creamy and rich Indian icecream. And perhaps tins of Alphonse mango puree, which is fantastic on desserts, or in lassis and milkshakes, or your own home-made icecream.

10932. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:25:42 AM

Scary, Jen. Same with me...must be because it's too cold.

Marshame, that makes sense then. Are you sure that's a deep freeze? Might just be a fridge there on the porch of the single wide.

10933. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:27:17 AM

milk and beer...even if it's just the residue.Yuck.

Of course, I don't drink beer anyway....ever.

Do they still make sasparilla? Haven't had it in decades.

10934. marshame - 8/22/2001 11:27:20 AM

Bleech, all this talk about ice cream is making me sick. I'm off to see the bail bondsman.

Later!

10935. marjoribanks - 8/22/2001 11:27:43 AM

My bother and his wife are in Italy right now, and every two days they send me a digital photograph of them eating gelato.

My one request from them when they left was to eat a two-scoop gelato breakfast one day - lemon and dark chocolate. It's fantastic. Italian gelato is fantastic.

However, they have taken my request and perverted it into ugly gelato taunting.

10936. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:28:14 AM

Marshame...here's a beer in a milk jug for you to go.

10937. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:29:20 AM

Banks,
There is an Indian store near me and a couple others not too far away and one Pakistani one. They are where I find mango ice cream. I'll look for the mango kulfi and puree on my next trip.

10938. Jenerator - 8/22/2001 11:31:30 AM

Her and Buster had a huge food fight in Golden Corral last night. This was during my turn at karaoke. Imagine me belting out "I Will Always Love You" while a bunch of bikers are smearing cornbread in everyone's faces.

It was a bust and I'm devastated, still.

10939. marjoribanks - 8/22/2001 11:32:52 AM

Cool, absensia.

You should try kulfi once, even if they don't have mango. It's quite great when made half-way properly. In Bombay, I eat one a day, from the ancient and famous Parsi Dairy. It comes in discs (about 4 in in diameter) and great flavors from the classic 'malai' to all kinds of fruits including mango, custard-apple and chickoo (what the Mexicans call 'chicozapota'). They're all mindblowing.

10940. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:33:20 AM

Oh, so that's why she's going to the bailbonds man....top get Buster out of jail. Jen, my heart goes out to you. That had to be sooo traumatic.

10941. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:35:14 AM

I shall check them out, Banks. I love finding new stuff. And, true Italian gelato is heaven. Worth fighting traffic to get to the few Italian gelato shops we have here.

10942. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 11:36:10 AM

The mango chutney we have is great on pork roast.

10943. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:37:40 AM

Mango chutney goes well on everything. I made some earlier this summer with jalapenos. Put some on grilled chicken the other day. Was yummy.

10944. marjoribanks - 8/22/2001 11:37:59 AM

There is an ice-cream place in Merida, in the mountains of Venezuela, which is famous for making anything and everything into ice-cream. There are hundreds of flavors. I sampled a tunafish scoop (not bad) a spaghetti bolognaise scoop (revolting) and several alcohol flavors (all decent.) I also suggested that the owner make one out of cow tongue (something I happen to like half-frozen, in slivers). For this suggestion, I got a card with the owners picture and his formal thanks.

10945. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:38:07 AM

Banks:
"My bother and his wife..."

I'll be sure to tell him you said that!

10946. theDiva - 8/22/2001 11:38:37 AM

thoughtful

will you please finish off my vendor from yesterday? Thanks in advance.

banks

daily gelato taunting? That is ugly. Is this the brother you regularly pounded as a youth?

10947. Absensia - 8/22/2001 11:41:04 AM

Banks,

Venezuela has ended my ice cream urge for the day. Tuna ice cream? Going to be ill, I think.

10948. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 11:41:58 AM

Diva no problem....you bring the soy sauce and I'll eat the vendor for lunch...it's almost lunch time here anyway. Stir-fried vendor on rice. Yum.

10949. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 11:43:01 AM

Okay, we're going to a Cuban restaurant tonight...never had Cuban food before. Any suggestions as to what I should order?

10950. ScottLoar - 8/22/2001 11:43:03 AM

Best ice cream I've ate - Magnolia, owned by the San Miguel Corp. (yeah, the brewers of the Philipppines) - and the mango ice cream is legendary. I repeat, legendary.

10951. ronski - 8/22/2001 11:43:46 AM

The nicest thing about gelato is that it regularly is available in hazelnut flavor. You know, not chopped hazelnuts, but finely ground ones imparting a taste that is sublime.

10952. janjon - 8/22/2001 11:46:56 AM

is this the brother who gave you the case of mangos?

must be a younger brother.

bop him one. for old time's sake.

10953. marjoribanks - 8/22/2001 11:47:31 AM

My brother is much given to taunting, Diva. Perhaps it is due to those early beatings I administered.

--

Loar,

There is a freezer-full of Filipino ice-cream at my supermarket, but I've never tried it. It seems to be composed of unheard-of flavors like pricklypear. I will check for that brand name, and am fairly sure I've seen it.

In Trinidad, I've eaten really fine ice-cream in unusual flavors. Peanut. Passion-fruit. Really good stuff, perhaps the best local manufactured product I came across.

10954. theDiva - 8/22/2001 11:48:25 AM

thoughtful

here ya go. Start with the liver, please.

Judith

Anything - ropa vieja, shrimp ajillo, anything. I adore Cuban food. Maybe Mgleason will show up with some recs.

ronski

mmmmmmmm.....hazelnut gelato. There's just something about that flavor....

10955. theDiva - 8/22/2001 11:48:57 AM

Banks

aha! See?!?!

10956. marjoribanks - 8/22/2001 11:49:13 AM

Yes, this is the brother who gave me a case of ripe canteloupe and laughed hysterically about it. I only have one brother.

-

Ronski reminds us of hazelnut. Yes. Yes. Perhaps the prince of gelato.

10957. theDiva - 8/22/2001 11:50:13 AM

Well, I got six - plenty to spare. You want a few?

10958. theDiva - 8/22/2001 11:50:51 AM

Well, I got six - plenty to spare. You want a few?

10959. theDiva - 8/22/2001 11:51:54 AM

WTF?

10960. marjoribanks - 8/22/2001 11:56:43 AM

One is enough, thank you.

---
Ciao, bambini.

10961. janjon - 8/22/2001 11:57:56 AM

banks - am I wrong in thinking that the jabbing and joking is a two way street with this little brother?

10962. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 12:00:12 PM

EERRRRRPPPP!

Excuse me. I'm full. Two vendors in one day? That's my limit!

By tomorrow I'll be ready for more.

10963. mgleason - 8/22/2001 12:21:04 PM

J,

If you like pork, you can't go wrong ordering lechon asado, which will usually be accompanied by black beans and rice, yuca with garlic sauce, and platanitos maduros fritos (fried ripe plantains). All the stuff that Diva mentioned is great, too, and be sure to order flan for dessert.

10964. Absensia - 8/22/2001 12:21:10 PM

Slow day...think I'll go out and buy a lottery ticket and win.

Thoughtful,
Where should I ship the dogs...got three here just for you.

10965. theDiva - 8/22/2001 12:22:08 PM

flan....oh my. Flan.

10966. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 12:30:48 PM

Magic words..."order flan..."

Will do!

10967. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 12:54:02 PM

No thanks, Abs, I still have some in my fridge.
;-)

10968. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 1:01:29 PM

OK, here goes with my fridge:
home made pesto, home made tomato sauce
skim milk & OJ
butter, garlic, various condiments including capers and white worchestershire sauce
lime seltzer, white wine, diet coke & V8
cheese: low-fat sharp, part skim mozz, shredded cheddar, parmesan
lean sandwich meat (turkey or whatever hubby bought...I don't eat it)
yogurt
egg beaters and eggs
coors
decaf coffee and hazelnut regular coffee
from the garden: cukes and yellow and zucc. squash
lettuce, radishes
apples and/or peaches

10969. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 1:56:46 PM

freezer upstairs is full of breads: italian, wheat, bagels, rye, muffins, english muffins, etc., weight watchers chocolate bars, veggie burgers and meatless breakfast sausages, some frozen mixed veggies.

I never realized that Thomas' english muffins aren't available everywhere....but I grew up on those puppies, and sorry but other english muffins just don't compare.

10970. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 2:54:09 PM

Jeez, are these the dog days of summer or what? There is nothing going on here nor is there anything going on around town; it's really too hot to get out and I don't feel like doing anything, anyhow...I have decided to take my car to the mechanic and hang out at our friends house til time for us all to go to dinner.

And yes, the evil Jaguar electrical system has struck again...now the windshield wipers will not turn off. We had to remove the fuse controlling them in order to get them to stop running the other day. Cheaper than buying a new battery after the wipers run it down...

10971. janjon - 8/22/2001 2:56:15 PM

That story reminds me of the brandname Lucas. I hate the brandname Lucas.

Anyone who's ever owned a car made in Great Britain will understand.

I will never again own a car made in Great Britain.

10972. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 2:57:42 PM

More than likely, neither will I. I think I'm going for a German one next...

10973. janjon - 8/22/2001 2:59:15 PM

German or Swedish - that's the ticket.

10974. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 2:59:57 PM

I miss my Volvo...you're right, Swedish is nice, too.

10975. Ms. No - 8/22/2001 3:17:48 PM

Perhaps I lack a sufficiently broad palatte, but I've just read a dish described that sounds iffy at best.

Fillet of Sole with lemon pepper, capers and dill.

It's the addition of dill that I'm curious about.

Would this be an appealing dish or is it as strange as it seems to me?

10976. theDiva - 8/22/2001 3:19:40 PM

I don't especially care for dill, having once inadvertantly swallowed an enormous mouthful, but otherwise it sounds nice.

10977. Absensia - 8/22/2001 3:20:56 PM

Substitute some lemon for the capers and it would be great.

10978. Absensia - 8/22/2001 3:21:22 PM

Hey Diva,
Want some capers?

10979. janjon - 8/22/2001 3:24:08 PM

how does one inadvertently swallow a huge handful of dill?

watching Bernie Williams inadvertently taking a shower or something?

10980. PsychProf - 8/22/2001 3:25:49 PM

JanJon...when it has been liberally sprinkled on peanut butter...

10981. janjon - 8/22/2001 3:30:28 PM

yes. that makes it clear as mud.

thanks.

10982. Ms. No - 8/22/2001 3:30:34 PM

'sensia,

Yes, I was thinking lemon pepper and capers or lemon pepper and dill but not all three. Something about the capers and dill just doesn't seem to fit for me.

Ah well, it's only fictional food after all.

10983. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 3:31:26 PM

I love dill on fish...and on some veggies, none of which I can recall at the monent.

Carrots...lemon and dill on carrots!

10984. mgleason - 8/22/2001 3:32:43 PM

I don't much care for capers (unless they're madcap).

Ms No, I linked to a site featuring some stencils of flowers and vines in N&Q.

10985. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 3:35:02 PM

dill is required on stuffed cabbage (golumpki) or else it's not stuffed cabbage. Also dill with pickle, duh, wilted cucumber salad, in potato salad, fish and many veggies it's good.

Dill and capers sounds like one of those things that just might taste good, even though it's unlikely...sorta like people who swear by horse radish and p butter on crackers.

10986. ronski - 8/22/2001 3:36:21 PM

I love lemon, dill, capers, you name it, anything sour. It may be cultural. Czechs have been known to use the juice of unripe grapes to flavor things.

10987. ronski - 8/22/2001 3:37:32 PM

(I should point out that I consider dill to have a sourish flavor. Perhaps not everyone thinks that way.)

10988. mgleason - 8/22/2001 3:40:58 PM

I like dill, but it tastes tart to me, not sour. There's a dip that I make with dill, cream cheese, spinach, and pickled artichokes that I'm crazy about.

10989. janjon - 8/22/2001 3:43:01 PM

sliced cucumbers, sliced red onions, a little red wine vinegar (or lemon juice), salt, pepper and lots of dill.

very good.

10990. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 3:43:57 PM

ronski? Did I know you were czech? I don't think so. Hubby is slovak, I'm Italian, Hungarian & Polish.

10991. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 3:45:21 PM

I can hardly wait for dinner this evening...I'm already hungry!

10992. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 3:45:54 PM

hubby likes anything with sour cream and paprika. His family also ate lots and lots of cabbage... I thought I'd die when his grandmother made a wonderful looking pastry for dessert and I found out it had cabbage in it too!

10993. Absensia - 8/22/2001 3:46:00 PM

None of those little green capers for me. Dilled new potatoes are so good. Dill and salmon, ummm, the possibilities are endless.

That dip sounds good, MG.

10994. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 3:46:45 PM

I've also had some herbed breads with dill that were delish

10995. rubberducky - 8/22/2001 3:47:14 PM

had a new salad dressing at Uno's called Creamy Scallion Ranch that was pretty dang tasty if you like ranch - which i usually get cuz restaurant italian or house is usually too (a) oily (b) stanky for the breath or (c) both. anyone else heard of it? never seen it in the store, so it must be a house blend.

10996. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 3:47:50 PM

I like dill on cold salmon in a cream sauce made with sour cream and the wine you've poached the salmon in...put the salmon in a dish and cover with the sauce, chill, and yummmmy!

10997. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 3:48:42 PM

I used to make red onion/dill bread with pecans in it...

10998. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 3:48:59 PM

we ate out the other night and I think restaurants are really going over the top...it was one thing to serve dessert on a dinner plate, but this place served dessert in huge serving plates. Outrageous. I couldn't help but think they ran out of plates.

10999. janjon - 8/22/2001 3:49:07 PM

wait a minute. capers are terrific. saute some small white (flounder, sole, etc.) fillets in a olive oil and small bit of (blush) butter. Take them out of the skillet when done and then swish in a few capers (and a bit more oil if the pan is dry) for a moment or two. pour the sauce over the fish and eat.

very good.

11000. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 3:49:37 PM

Okay, it was wheat bread...and it was good, dangit!

11001. mgleason - 8/22/2001 3:49:56 PM

Ooh, Absensia, I love dilled new potatoes with freshly grated Parmesan cheese. YUM!

You must tell us everything you order, J. I've talked myself into making flan this weekend.

11002. JudithAtHome - 8/22/2001 3:51:47 PM

MG:

I will! We're pretty excited about it because there aren't many cuisines we haven't tried in this town...plus, our friends have been raving about it.

11003. theDiva - 8/22/2001 3:54:02 PM

CAPERS!

I also have capers in my refrigerator.

11004. Absensia - 8/22/2001 3:54:17 PM

MG, and some freshly ground pepper. And, new potatoes, steamed, then slightly hollowed out and stuffed with a mixture of goat cheese and basil, and then sauteed a short time in a little butter. To die for.

Hmm, the capers do sound good the way you describe them, Janjon. I'll try them again. Have only had them in restaurants and they've tasted "tinny."

11005. theDiva - 8/22/2001 3:56:07 PM

jan

no, if I'd been watching Bernie in the shower, I can assure you that dill would be the furthest thing from my mind.

It was a long time ago, I was very small. Somehow I got a huge mouthful of the stuff while eating some borscht and I haven't been able to stomach it since (though I love borscht.)

11006. Ms. No - 8/22/2001 3:57:57 PM

Maria,

Yes, I got the stencils, thank you. I thought I'd replied and realize I must not have. I've been like that with all my correspondance this week. Must be the moon but I'm a total scatterbrain lately.

Is this the appropriate time to mention that peanut butter and dill pickle sandwiches are a favorite from my childhood? Yum!

11007. janjon - 8/22/2001 3:58:58 PM

another variety of that dish, absensia, is to add a bit of chicken broth (low or no fat) and some lemon along with the capers instead of more oil. A bit more astringent and quite tasty.

capers can be bought around here unpacked. They last for quite a while in the fridge.

caperberries also are fun. larger versions (they come in different sizes) than little capers and with "tails" on them, ala maraschino cherries. Terrific with sauteed squid, as one example.

11008. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 4:02:20 PM

we would saute scallops with lemon and capers and dry vermouth

11009. Ms. No - 8/22/2001 4:03:03 PM

Borscht?

Gesundheit!

11010. janjon - 8/22/2001 4:03:29 PM

now that sounds good. bay scallops?

11011. mgleason - 8/22/2001 4:03:55 PM

I am reminded of a restaurant in Manhattan we called Isabella's House of Squid, because seemingly everything came with a side of calamari, even dessert.

11012. Absensia - 8/22/2001 4:04:58 PM

That sounds good Janjon...how about substituting white wine for the oil and lemon?

I'll check out the caper supplies around here.

Ms. No,
Have PB and dill pickles sandwiches for dinner tonight...besure and invite your roommate and her fiance. Lower the lights, have candles.

11013. Absensia - 8/22/2001 4:07:08 PM

Scallops are wonderful, sauteed with or without dill, but with garlic and a little bit of butter, and a dash of white wine. And singing scallops, still in the shell, are a rare but wonderful treat.

11014. mgleason - 8/22/2001 4:07:30 PM

You've made me want fresh PB on datenut bread with new honey. I'll have to hie myself to the health-food store.

11015. Absensia - 8/22/2001 4:08:04 PM

Calamari, caramel cheesecake?

11016. mgleason - 8/22/2001 4:09:23 PM

I wouldn't have been surprised!

11017. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 4:18:32 PM

Not so good with bay scallops...we only do it with sea scallops...roll gently in flour with some added salt and pepper, saute in a bit of butter adding lemon juice, dry vermouth--same as white wine really and capers. Biggest trick is do not over cook.

11018. thoughtful - 8/22/2001 4:50:47 PM

oops forgot a most important ingredient...add some fresh parsley too.

Hubby made pesto this weekend with all basil, and it's good, but I find it so much better when I throw in some fresh parsley too...a little sweeter, fresher taste.

11019. Absensia - 8/23/2001 10:41:00 AM

Waiting, Judith, waiting.....

11020. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2001 10:43:42 AM

Last night, the Cuban restaurant was a huge success...it is in a converted 1960s suburban house, with the walls cleverly knocked out and reset to make partitions between the rooms. Highly polished wooden floors, walls washed in sunny yellow and pale lime green with wall sconces holding live plants of different ivies trailing down and white framed pictures of the beachs in Cuba and of plazas full of brilliant flowers. You feel like you're on a vacation from the minute you step in the door....

They bring a plate of paper thin sliced plantains (those little bananas) which are hot from the fryer and they beat chips all to hell....we ordered more of those and also an appetizer sampler. I loved the chunks of plantains that were broiled til they carmalize and the little ham balls...wasn't that impressed with the yucca. But the iced sweet coffee was fantastic.

Keoni had the featured chicken dish and I had a Cuban sandwich...I know, I should have had the pork dish but I've been hearing about these sandwiches for ages and besides, I knew we'd be going back there because Keoni LOVED the food and he loved the owner, who explained his entire lifes history to Keoni. He's decided we should go back over and over, til we've managed to eat through the menu.

That should be delightful because the food was superb and plentiful and the service outstanding; I enjoyed the entire experience!

11021. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2001 10:45:24 AM

I don't know if it was a psychic experience or not but the owner of our favorite Italian restaurant called after we got home and asked Keoni where we'd been lately and then asked him to play golf next week....

11022. theDiva - 8/23/2001 10:47:21 AM

sigh

fried plantains

it sounds fab, Judith.

11023. mgleason - 8/23/2001 10:58:20 AM

I'm glad you liked it, J!

Eddie is such a devotee of Cuban sandwiches, that he bought himself a press. I have to admit, he's got quite the knack. We're having some for lunch today, as a matter of fact.

I've got to go to Miami; Tampa's not the same. The Cubans there aren't Cuban enough any more, most being descendants of political refugees from the Spanish-American War.

11024. Absensia - 8/23/2001 11:10:12 AM

Judith,
Sounds yummy, and I'm glad it was so successful. Tell us more about the chicken dish. And, sigh, now I want a cuban sandwich, of course.

11025. christipeters - 8/23/2001 11:11:46 AM

Judith -

Yum! Sounds like a wonderful supper. I'll have to check this place out myself the next time I'm down your way.

11026. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2001 11:33:26 AM

The chicken was grilled with onions which had a slight anise taste to them; it was simplicity itself but from the bite he grudingly let me try, it was delicious. (Just kidding...he loves to share!) For Keoni to go so gaga over grilled chicken, it had to be good. I know it had some spices on it but not sure what besides garlic and lemon. When he would cut into it, it would just fall off the bones.

He was so impressed, he's taking some clients and a coworker there for lunch tomorrow.

11027. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2001 11:34:22 AM

Maria:

There were also black beans and I could swear the guy said they had chocolate in them...could that be?

11028. mgleason - 8/23/2001 11:41:44 AM

Sure; I put a little sugar in my black beans, J. I'm going to have to ask around about the chocolate.

The way I prepare grilled chicken is to rub it thyme, rosemary, oregano, and aniseed, then marinate overnight in sour orange and mojo (a garlic sauce made with fresh garlic). I grill on medium-low, frequently basting.

11029. glendajean - 8/23/2001 11:42:17 AM

Let the record show that Judith got the millennial.

11030. mgleason - 8/23/2001 11:43:06 AM

rub in

11031. Ms. No - 8/23/2001 11:52:35 AM

Maria,

I will be attempting Mojo for the first time this weekend from a couple of recipes that Absensia sent me.

Where do I get Seville oranges?

How unathentic is it to substitute lemons? (which grow abundantly in my backyard)

11032. mgleason - 8/23/2001 11:57:54 AM

We bought a Sunshine Legend 4 grill last year, with cast iron inserts including grilling area, griddle, and wok plate, so it's possible to cook almost everything outside. It also has a hood, for smoking and roasting.

11033. mgleason - 8/23/2001 12:01:27 PM

Lemons are OK, Ms No, but they don't have the impact of sour orange. I get mine from a neighbor's tree - how's that for convenience? You can also get bottled juice, which isn't bad at all.

11034. Absensia - 8/23/2001 12:04:17 PM

I've mixed lemon juice with reg. oj...it's not the same, but,IMO, better than just lemon.

Ms. No, I don't know where you are exactly or if you have any large farmers' market. I can often find sevilles here at the Pike Place Market.

11035. Absensia - 8/23/2001 12:07:11 PM

11036. Absensia - 8/23/2001 12:08:37 PM

It didn't turn out good enough to say it twice.

11037. Jenerator - 8/23/2001 12:35:03 PM

Hey Diva,

If you're still around, will you post that picture I sent you of my husband and me?

I'm hoping that Scott Loar will show himself as he said he might.

11038. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2001 12:41:55 PM

Jen:

Did you see the other day where I am soon going to have a Central Market nearby?

11039. Jenerator - 8/23/2001 12:44:32 PM

No, I missed it. Is a Central Market a farmer's market??

Marsha and I have been talking about going to Ft. Worth in the near future. Maybe we can treat you and Keoni to lunch?

11040. theDiva - 8/23/2001 12:45:37 PM

11041. theDiva - 8/23/2001 12:46:04 PM

what a beautiful couple.

11042. PsychProf - 8/23/2001 12:49:14 PM

Best to you guys, Jen, indeed my best...

11043. Jenerator - 8/23/2001 12:50:59 PM

Thanks Diva.

11044. Jenerator - 8/23/2001 12:51:35 PM

I look like a shrimp compared to him. Cool!

11045. Jenerator - 8/23/2001 12:52:22 PM

Thanks to you too PP!

11046. theDiva - 8/23/2001 12:52:24 PM

my pleasure, jen. He must be tall!

11047. Jenerator - 8/23/2001 12:54:35 PM

He's six feet, six and a half inches tall.

I like 'em tall.

11048. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2001 12:59:25 PM

Jen, you guys look great...bet your kids will play basketball!

No, Central Market is a grocery store with stuff from all over the world...I think. I thought there were several in Dallas? Anyhow, they may just be highly stocked with gourmet stuff; whatever, everyone on the westside is drooling and eagerly awaiting the grand opening.

Lunch sounds good to me...are y'all headed for Montgomery Street Mall? ;-)

11049. theDiva - 8/23/2001 1:00:40 PM

yow!

11050. glendajean - 8/23/2001 2:08:28 PM

They built the first Central Market in Austin. When I moved to DC, and came back home for visits, I would almost cry when I entered the Central Market.

It is grocery store as entertainment, as choice gone wild, and as pleasing a grocery store experience as possible.

Of course, DC has the crappiest little basement grocery stores -- the lettuce is almost always wilted.

11051. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2001 2:14:19 PM

It is grocery store as entertainment, as choice gone wild, and as pleasing a grocery store experience as possible.

Sounds like my kinda place!!

11052. glendajean - 8/23/2001 2:21:19 PM

At least in the original concept, there is little of the so-called basics one finds in traditional grocery stores (e.g., toilet paper, moter oil, aspirin). But their produce section is larger than most grocery stores. I once saw an entire section of "baby" vegetables of all kind. And they specialize in things that are in season, like champagne grapes.

They have separate fish, chicken and beef meat counters, a full bakery, and separate wine, cheese and deli markets.

It's great fun. It was supposed to be a research and development store for HEB. They wanted to try out on Austin yuppies new ideas. In fact, they talked about not making money on the store, and that it was a one-of-a-kind store. The closing hour was 9:00 pm when it opened.

But it was so successful, they built another store in South Austin, and others in San Antonio.

11053. Ms. No - 8/23/2001 2:21:51 PM

Absensia,

I'm in Los Angeles on the West Side so I'm close to a really excellent Farmers Market. I'll have to check it for Seville Oranges. I've also got a couple of Trader Joe's and some gourmet/natural markets nearby as well.

Maybe I'll hit the Farmer's market early in the a.m. and then drive the dog up the coast to visit friends in BuenaVentura. We'll cook and play on the beach and wrassle with the dogs.

Okay, now I'm rilly rilly ready for the weekend!

11054. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 11:16:18 AM

:-(
I think Ronski's not talking to me.

11055. ronski - 8/24/2001 12:42:32 PM

thoughtful,

Oh no, not true. Just been a bit busy. I enjoy all your posts, here, in the Slow Thread, etc.

I will just add for now that I am indeed of Czech and German extraction (with the German part apparently originating a few centuries ago in Portugal, of all places). Must be why I like vinho verde and find Portugese the prettiest sounding of languages.

And I love Hungarian, Czech, etc. food. I had an aunt (extended family actually) who had a restaurant in Greenwood Lake, New York, called Alt Vien or Old Vienna. She was Austrian and her husband Hungarian. I remember eating there as a child. Years earlier, Babe Ruth was a regular. Babe Ruth and his many babes, as it happened.

11056. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 12:45:43 PM

Babe Ruth appreciated good cooks...he once dined at Keonis grandfathers house and insisted on complimenting the cook.

FDR did the same...

11057. Jenerator - 8/24/2001 12:46:43 PM

Judith,

Is a Central Market related to the World Market (which used to be Cost Plus)? If so, I think you'll enjoy it. I like all of the kitchen gadgets. It has an enormous Japanese section. You'll be an Iron Chef in no time. The wine selection is decent, but a little skimpy on the French reds. I buy a lot of my seasoning packets from there and little trinkets.

11058. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 12:55:34 PM

No, go back a few posts and you'll see Glendajean described Central Market perfectly...in fact, it is right across the parking lot from World Market, where I've been shopping since they opened last December.

And we already have every Japanese kitchen gadget...got them when we lived there for four years! I buy packages of Lychee jelly snacks at World Market all the time.

11059. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 1:03:59 PM

Thanks, Ronski. I was concerned that I had somehow done ya wrong.

Sounds like Babe Ruth enjoyed his "cookies" as well as good cooks.

J@H, I didn't realize Keoni's family had such an illustrious background.

11060. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 1:06:06 PM

Denny the dendrobium has finally revealed himself...that thing coming up out of his leaves is clearly a stem with buds on it. I am so excited. I never saw his blossoms when I bought him...he was in the severely marked-down section and looked to be on his next-to-last legs -- er -- roots. I can't wait for the surprise to unfold further.

11061. Jenerator - 8/24/2001 1:06:54 PM

Judith,

The only other place that I go to for hard to find items is the World Market on Greenville Ave, next to the Mongolian Grill (It's not part of the chain). That's the place that I get cheeses, olives, coffees, teas, and desserts from around the world. It has a ton of other foodstuffs and some gadgets, but no household items.

11062. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:07:16 PM

Well, it was only twice...not like they all hobnobbed or anything. Keonis grandfather was a big politico in Hawaii, thus the hosting of famous persons.

11063. theDiva - 8/24/2001 1:07:44 PM

"Babe Ruth appreciated good cooks...he once dined at Keonis grandfathers house and insisted on complimenting the cook."

Wow. Here I am nearly six degrees of separation from Babe Ruth....now there's a tidbit for the Sportsbar.

That is so cool, Judith!

11064. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:08:52 PM

Diva:

We have pictures of the event!

11065. Jenerator - 8/24/2001 1:09:18 PM

What does Keoni think about the movement for Hawaiian independence? Last time I was there, a local who lived next to us had rallies at his house for those people who wanted it!

11066. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 1:10:23 PM

I saw an Indian woman on the way to lunch the other day and asked her about mangoes...after the conversation about sorbets and such. She said she is a huge fan of mangoes and can tell them apart by origin...says the US-grown mangoes just aren't the same. She also highly endorsed kulfi, though she said the stuff in the states also isn't as good. She goes to manhattan to get a lot of this stuff as she has family there.

11067. Absensia - 8/24/2001 1:14:54 PM

Ms. No,
I hope you found all the ingredients and are having a wonderful weekend.

11068. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:24:34 PM

Jen:

Keonis sister is big into that movement but he thinks it is nuts.

11069. theDiva - 8/24/2001 1:26:06 PM

Judith

ACK! NO! I am PLOTZING. You must post them!

11070. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:27:56 PM

Diva:

No scanner here....sorry. If we ever get together for a Moteio, I'll bring them along, tho.

11071. theDiva - 8/24/2001 1:29:15 PM

sigh

Weeeeelllll...okay.

I know! Hold them up to your monitor! I'll squint.

11072. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:38:27 PM

Deev:

I'll see if I can 1) find them in my house and 2) maybe copy them at Kinkos or something and 3) send them to you via snail mail. Hafta ask Keoni first though, since it is his relative and all..

11073. theDiva - 8/24/2001 1:40:22 PM

Oh no! Please don't go to all that trouble. Really. I was just joking in my last.

11074. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 1:43:04 PM

Ha...in order to hold them up, I'd have to locate them first, anyhow.

There is a family story that Oko, his grandfathers housekeeper and cook, was so overwhelmed when FDR asked to meet her, that she fell to the floor in a deep bow and never raised her eyes to his face.

11075. theDiva - 8/24/2001 1:49:55 PM

Now that's humility.

I'd say meeting FDR would be pretty overwhelming.

11076. Absensia - 8/24/2001 1:51:10 PM

or maybe it was the humidity! :o

11077. DanDillon - 8/24/2001 2:54:27 PM

On the off chance that you have no idea what to do with your leftover chicken, my wife tells me this will do it perfect justice. (I haven't tested it myself, but she claims it's absolutely delicious and it appears to be extraordinarily easy.)

1/4 cup honey
1/4 cup Worcestershire sauce
1 1/2 pounds skinless, boneless chicken breast halves
3 tablespoons honey
3 tablespoons Dijon mustard
2 tablespoons white wine vinegar
2 teaspoons lemon zest
1 1/2 teaspoons lemon pepper
1/2 teaspoon poppy seeds
1/2 teaspoon garlic powder
1 cup halved seedless red grapes
1/2 cup cashews

1. In a large, self-sealing bag, combine honey and Worcestershire sauce. Add chicken and place bag in a shallow dish in the refrigerator. Chill 2 to 4 hours, turning bag occasionally. Remove chicken and discard marinade.

2. Grill chicken over medium heat for 12 to 15 minutes, until juices run clear and chicken is no longer pink inside. Remove from grill, cool and chop.

3. In a medium bowl, whisk together the remaining honey, mustard, vinegar, lemon zest, lemon pepper, poppy seeds and garlic powder. Add chicken, grapes and cashews and toss until evenly coated. Cover and chill until serving.

Enjoy!

11078. Jenerator - 8/24/2001 2:56:49 PM

Anyone else serve or eat with someone famous? I've had dinner with the following people but not at the same time:

Phil Collins
Angus Young
Dennis Rodman
Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith
Charlie Sheen
Wayne Gretzsky
Mary Kay
Vince Neil and Nikki Sixx (I'm showing my age!)

11079. Jenerator - 8/24/2001 2:58:07 PM

That sounds good Dan!

11080. theDiva - 8/24/2001 3:07:26 PM

hm.

I once saw Meryl Streep walking into the movies; then later on I had some popcorn. Does that count?

11081. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 3:33:55 PM

I sat next to Beau Bridges and family at a luau, and I had dinner with Steve Forbes: the best he and I could do is agree to disagree. I've been on a plane once with Jackie O and once with Gregory Harrison. I ate once at the same restaurant with Dolly Parton. I've also had breakfast and a cocktail hour (with lots of other people) with Alan Greenspan on several occasions. I've eaten lunch on different occasions with 2 nobel prize winning economists: Jim Tobin and Larry Klein. Also ate lunch a couple of times with the late Art Okun. But those last folks would only be known by other economists.

11082. theDiva - 8/24/2001 3:40:58 PM

Hm. I've been to those big industry-type dinners with Raul Julia, Ruth Gordon, Garson Kanin, Melanie Griffith (feh), Christine Lahti, Matthew Broderick...guess I'll have to pull out all those old programs to see who else. I can't remember them all off the top of my head.

Of course, I like the image of thoughtful arguing with Steve Forbes. And hobnobbing with all those economists.

True Alan Greenspan story:

A friend works at the Fed in DC. They're at a big annual shindig/cookout for staff; he and his wife are standing there talking to the Chairman and his wife. It begins to rain, wives are grabbing stuff to take inside as the Chairman and friend continue to gab. Chairman's wife orders 'FOR GODSAKE ALAN, GET THE POTATO SALAD!' to which he meekly, obediently, and instantly complied.

11083. PsychProf - 8/24/2001 3:44:11 PM

Is his wife Andrea Mitchell of NBC News?

11084. Jenerator - 8/24/2001 3:44:35 PM

Heehee. I like these stories.

Thoughtful,

Are you an economist?

11085. Jenerator - 8/24/2001 3:45:29 PM

Dennis drank an entire bottle of Jaegermeister with dinner. And I thought I was grossed out before hand!

11086. Absensia - 8/24/2001 3:49:30 PM

Hmmmm,
not many...
dinner with 4 others with Midge Constansa when she was Carter's Chief of Staff or whatever;
US Supreme Court Justice William Douglas a couple of times;
with the various state supremes at different times;
Both Patty Murry and Maria Caldwell...not at the same time..and not at fundraisers;
Cocktail party with Ann Richards;
Dinner with Jonnie Cockran and 7 students from the Legal or BSA who sponsored a speech for the student body;
Spoke briefly with Clinton once...no meal or cigars;
can't remember any others off the top of my head...

11087. PsychProf - 8/24/2001 3:50:44 PM

haha...Ann Richards Abs...I have seen a photo of her and Don S., if memory serves me...

11088. Absensia - 8/24/2001 3:53:40 PM

Hey, I like her...she's got style, brains, and takes no prisoners....hmmm, so she and Don. S. are tight, hmmmm?

11089. theDiva - 8/24/2001 3:53:54 PM

Prof

the very same.

11090. theDiva - 8/24/2001 4:07:42 PM

later, geeks! Have a good weekend!

Jen

I should be home in about 25 minutes...got a stop to make first.

11091. ronski - 8/24/2001 4:20:58 PM

I saw Melanie and Antonio's house when I was in L.A. last week, it being a few blocks away from my cousin's. Nice enough.

Closer still was Nat King Cole's first house there (he integrated the neighborhood, a process which appears to have slowed), and, best of all, Harold Lloyd's house: typical Hollywood (though not actually in Hollywood) and quite tasteful for the type.

I love L.A.

11092. ronski - 8/24/2001 4:28:37 PM

I also just saw a hummingbird poop.

I'm sure they do it all the time like every other creature. I just never noticed it happening before.

Perhaps an inappropriate segue to saying that I just had some chicken tonnato left over from dinner. Mmmm.

I recently read it was originated in the Piedmont, with foodstuffs made available by trade with Liguria. That is, the classic vitello (veal) tonnato was. I made my sauce with a bit of mayonnaise added, a common enough practice these days, though not part of the original recipe.

You just throw a can of good light (not white) tuna in the blender, add a bit of olive oil, some lemon juice, a bit of mayonnaise if not a purist, and capers, and whir. Then spoon it over thinly sliced poached or cooked something (veal, chicken, or be creative), add a few more capers and some prapika for color, and refrigerate.

First time I ever had it was at Barbetta's Restaurant in Manhattan, many years ago. A very nice place to eat, though I haven't been back for a long time.

11093. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 4:29:56 PM

Jen, rumor has it that I am an economist...or at least I get paid for acting like one, though there are those in these threads who wouldn't believe I'm an economist in a million years. Of course, I don't have an economics degree, but an MBA. Still I've made my living in economics for over 20 years, so I guess it counts with some.

11094. Absensia - 8/24/2001 4:31:53 PM

ronski,
Is it required to eat the chicken tonnato while watching humming birds poop?

11095. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 4:33:39 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention that I've been in Martha Stewart's house in Westport...of course she wasn't there. Clever CPB that she is, she opened her home as a decorator show house for charity...why not. That way all these decorators come in and do up all the rooms, you get to buy what you really like, I'm sure at a good price, like the custom made draperies and so on, and they have to leave all the paint and floor finishes anyway. Not a bad deal. Also had a landscaping firm come in and landscape the exterior around her home.

11096. ronski - 8/24/2001 4:35:55 PM

Having worked in the news business, I've met a lot of famous people, but actually dined with very few. One of the nicest couples I have had dinner with though was Michael Caine and his wife Shakura, a former Miss Guyana. Very charming people, quite down to earth.

For some reason, however, I am reminded of the lines from The Producers:

"Actors are people, too." To which Max replies, "Have you ever eaten with one?"

11097. ronski - 8/24/2001 4:38:41 PM

Absensia,

No, that's optional, if only because in the Old Word where the dish originated, there are no hummingbirds.

I think in Eurasia those so inclined gravitate to storks and nightingales, which we have not in the U.S.

11098. Absensia - 8/24/2001 4:41:29 PM

or flamingos? we don't have many hummingbirds here either. One could starve to death whilst waiting. We don't have any wild flamingos either for that matter.

11099. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 4:50:15 PM

I take it youse haven't been to Florida...flamingos and storks aplenty

11100. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2001 5:06:08 PM

I've had lunch with Jane Goodall and drinks with David Clayton Thomas.

What a boring list!

11101. ronski - 8/24/2001 5:13:09 PM

Yes, Florida does have wood storks, as does South America, where there are also the related Jabiru, as I have just learned by doing a search.

I see I was thinking of the Ciconia varieties that nest atop chimneys in Europe and bring human babies.

11102. thoughtful - 8/24/2001 5:23:30 PM

I saw the storks when I was paddling around Loxahatchee preserve...they looked so weird...these tremendous birds hanging out on the tippy top of trees that looked barely able to hold them. Not very attractive birds at that. We saw so much on that trip, perhaps my favorite being the otters. Heard more alligators than I care to think about, let alone seeing them.

11103. Absensia - 8/24/2001 5:30:57 PM

Ronski,

I've been to Florida but thought storks only lived at the race track. We have a few here in the zoo but never deliver babies. They claim it's too cold and their flannel shirts weigh them down in the rain.

I've also been to California but the flamingos I saw there were just hanging out at places like Wolfgang Pucks, etc., having a shrimp salad and wearing shades.

11104. ScottLoar - 8/24/2001 8:20:53 PM

I have the preserved carcass of a female ruby-throated hummingbird on a shelf in the book cabinets in our livingroom; she'd crashed into the large windows of our friend's house while they were remodeling and so broke her neck. She is so beautiful I hadn't the heart to have her swept away, and so kept her like some unwrapped Egyptian on display.

I, too, like otters; I've had three otter pelts hanging in my closet for years. Also a wolverine but he's on the floor in my study.

11105. Absensia - 8/24/2001 9:00:33 PM

What kind of otter? Sea otters or river otters. They are amazing and charming creatures. I've seen sea otters hanging out in small coves but never been close to them except at the acquarium.

A friend had been a docent at the zoo over 3 years ago and and worked with one of the river otters. We went to the exhibit and as soon as she called him with the special whistle she'd developed, he came immediately. It was clear he remember her.

The floor of your study is a good place for a wolverine. They are ferocious.

11106. Shannon - 8/24/2001 9:34:33 PM

Otters are cool. Shame we don't have those around here instead of nutria.

I don't have any good brushes with fame. I cleaned Phil Donahue's hotel room when I lived on Nantucket. Marlo was there too. They stayed about a week.

I saw some of the B-52's at a restaurant in Athens, and hubby's friend showed us Michael Stipe's house.

11107. ScottLoar - 8/25/2001 12:46:52 AM

I have river otter pelts which are classified by CITES as threatened and definitely not sea otters which are endangered, protected, and taking them by any other than certain native Americans who do so under license is illegal and punishable by heavy fines. If your place in North America (probably Louisianna?) has nutria you've got river otters and mink for sure. River otters are actually quite common, and mink especially so, but few people see them unlike the nutria and muskrat which are obvious.

11108. thoughtful - 8/25/2001 9:32:06 AM

I'm assuming the otters we saw were river otters as loxahatchee is fresh water....the start of the FL everglades as they flow out of Lake Okeechobee.
See here.

11109. thoughtful - 8/25/2001 9:34:49 AM

ScottL, it's illegal to have a dead bird in your house, even if you didn't kill it, even if it isn't endangered. I turned by 2 beautiful cedar waxwings over to the audobon society in our area.

11110. JudithAtHome - 8/25/2001 11:09:21 AM

I may soon have a dead dog in my home...if I could turn the little shit over to the decor police right now, I certainly would.

Last night at dinner, we met up some friends who invited us to go back with them after dinner to an estate sale they had early access to...we went and I bought some stuff, one item of which was a 1950s waste basket made in Italy...woven straw with an applique of a tree covered in white blossoms and little oranges. It was sooo cute and would be a perfect container for a bridal gift and to use later in a bathroom or bedroom. Too Cute!

At least, it WAS...I left it on the dining room table when we got home and then, about 25 minutes ago, put it in the garden room near my desk with a few things I'm taking in to my mall when I work on Wednesday. I'm in the den reading mail and think I hear crunching but that can't be...Klaus has already eaten and even had his osteoarthritis cookie this morning. But definite crunches are being heard and I go into the garden room and see him eating the last of the oranges off the basket! This is amazing as he NEVER does anything like that; he could sit there with a plate of treats and not eat one til we give the okay. I am furious...he has totaled the damned basket and it is now worthless but what is worse, he will probably become violently ill and require another trip to the ER tomorrow. Klaus is for all intents and purposes in the doghouse now.

11111. Absensia - 8/25/2001 11:22:32 AM

That'all teach you to go out at night and not say when you'll be back.

11112. JudithAtHome - 8/25/2001 11:26:38 AM

Cool post #, Abs!

Yeah, I think he's trying to tell me something.

I just gave him a couple of papaya enzyme tablets to aid in the digestion of the faux oranges.

11113. Absensia - 8/25/2001 11:30:38 AM

Ohhhhh, I didn't notice, thanks.
Truly, I hope he is okay. Just nibbled the oranges only, hmmmm?

11114. JudithAtHome - 8/25/2001 11:59:46 AM

No, he ATE them...crunched and chewed and swallowed them. He left half of one and I just deconstructed it. Luckily, the bodies of the oranges appear to be made of compressed paper but they were covered in a thick lacquer-like substance and the most worrisome part, had little sharp stems of wire or wood.

I know it will tear his stomach apart and we'll be spending Saturday night or Sunday morning at the doggie ER.

11115. Absensia - 8/25/2001 12:20:58 PM

Hopefully not, but grrrrrrrrr.

11116. arkymalarky - 8/25/2001 7:32:22 PM

Oh my! I don't know whether to feel sorrier for Judith or Klaus!

We went to Sam's today, and we've noticed that they have things one time and not the next, and I was going down the aisle to get a set of glasses (I've given up on the cheap ones that got that mystery film on them) and spied a Rowenta iron for $75. I hope it was a good price, because I snapped it up. Most of the boxes were dented, and I told Bob that the Rowenta truck must've had a wreck and they sent the shipment to Sam's, but I got one in a perfect box. I'M SO HAPPY!! And I don't even iron--but I will now! Or at least Bob and Mose will mind ironing less than they have. ;-)

11117. arkymalarky - 8/25/2001 7:56:50 PM

Oh, and I happened to need foundation and Estee Lauder was having their free gift promotion and I didn't even know it--a makeup bag with lots of neat stuff to go in it, and decent lipstick color, for a change. And I bought a 55% linen dress for 20 bucks. And it fit perfectly and looked great. And it was a size 8. Man, what a great shopping day!

11118. arkymalarky - 8/25/2001 8:07:08 PM

All right, dammit. Half the fun of having a great shopping day is sharing it with other people and hearing the numerous comments filled with praise and envy.

So you people all actually have Lives on Saturday night, eh?

I think I'm going to go iron my 55% linen dress.

11119. arkymalarky - 8/25/2001 8:32:17 PM

OK, I swear, I went downstairs to iron and Bob had already ironed four shirts and is heading to his closet to get more. I'm heading for the porch.

Later!

11120. Frankster - 8/25/2001 9:01:08 PM

Arky,

I actually enjoy ironing ( go figure ?), as it appears to be one household chore which allows the perfectionist in me to "shine".

Shopping ? Nope, doesn't do anything for me. Sorry.

...What the hell is a "Rowenta" iron ? Does it iron the clothes on its own,or something to that effect ?

Okay, back to work.

11121. Shannon - 8/25/2001 9:16:19 PM

Cool, arky.

I got a linen/cotton dress on sale last week. $34, so not as good a deal as you. But at least 3 people complimented me on it, so it was well worth it.

11122. arkymalarky - 8/25/2001 9:16:20 PM

Almost. It really does a great job--at least from what I saw of Bob's ironing. I haven't gotten to touch it yet, and he just counted twelve shirts he's ironed.

I detest shopping. I'd get everything from a catalog if I could, but Bob and Mose had to get some things and they both have to try stuff on. I walked by that dress I bought on the way to the men's department. Bob hates shopping too, and he depends on me to help him. We took two of Mose's friends and just hit the mall and Sam's. It really wasn't too bad. Everybody came home satisfied and not too stressed out.

11123. arkymalarky - 8/25/2001 9:17:57 PM

That is worth it, Shannon. I love linen blends--lots of comfort and good looks with easier care. I thought this one was 30, because that's what the tag said, but it rang up as 20.

11124. Shannon - 8/25/2001 9:35:36 PM

Oh, that's the best. I love it when things ring up cheaper than I expected.

11125. Jenerator - 8/25/2001 10:40:18 PM

arky,

What a fun day you had! I thought the same thing about the Estee Lauder lipstick. FINALLY a promotional gift with a decent colored lipstick. How many years have they used coral??

11126. joezan - 8/25/2001 10:57:45 PM

At my court's annual Family Day Picnic today. I love this place -Pottawattomie Bayou Park. One of the most beautiful parks in the county:

11127. Absensia - 8/25/2001 11:31:32 PM

Arky!
What a wonderful day for you. Judith, Maria, and I were discussing irons the other day..either here or maybe the inferno...men seem to love them...and Rowena sare considered the creme de la creme of irons. Size 8? A pox upon you. : - )

11128. Frankster - 8/26/2001 12:30:49 AM

Joe,

Your pictures make me want to move out there. They really do. :)

Arky,

How far is the mall from your place, and did you ever find out what that round metal structure was all about that I inquired about during the "tour" ?

It seems that we ( You, Bob, and I ) have another thing in common in that we detest shopping. I can't stand going shopping. The only reason I would want to go to a mall is possibly to people watch. Yes, there is some measure of pleasure to be obtained from watching the all consumming, name brand "herds" that happen by ...Ooh, look, there is anotherPorn Starone grazing at the candy kiosk, and look over there, aGuessone at the watering hole.

...Sorry 'bout that little rant. I just hate blatant conformity en masse.

I am going to check out that iron, though. Sounds like something I would be interested in.

Okay, back to what I was doing, which is recording some music off CD to cassette. As my collection grows, it's time to update.

... I'll do you
I'll do you
I'll do you
Yes, you'll do anything
I'll do you
I'll do you
I'll do you
Yeah, you do anything...

11129. Absensia - 8/26/2001 12:54:50 AM

Frankster,
Check: http://www.rowentausa.com/irons/products.cfm?PID=5

It will tell you everything you will want to know about Rowentas..it even has a live chat to discuss ironing problems.

11130. Frankster - 8/26/2001 1:19:19 AM

It will tell you everything you will want to know about Rowentas..it even has a live chat to discuss ironing problems.

Absensia,

Shoot! I just knewthere was a discussion amiss in my bookmarks. Thanks so much for the tip, Absensia! My life is complete now that I have found that Rowenta site.Smooch, Smooch, Smooch

I'm just playing with you, Absensia ... I just thought the "sarcasm" would lift my spirits this evening. It hasn't.

... It was a rough day today. Really rough. What I would give for a Restart button for this day.

I'll check out the site, by the way. Thanks!

It's not the way you look,
it's not the way that you smile
although there's something to that
It's not the way you have your hair
it's not that certain style...

11131. Absensia - 8/26/2001 4:11:18 AM

Yep, heard the tone...awww, I'm sorry your day was sooo bad. I'd hoped the chat would give you at least a little giggle. I hope Sunday is a lot better!

11132. JudithAtHome - 8/26/2001 10:10:03 AM

Klaus lived...

Arky, that is an EXCELLENT price on a Rowenta! Congrats! Keoni did the same thing Bob did when I brought our Rowenta home...massive amounts of ironing.

Back to the Klaus update: I called the vet after I discovered the little oranges had wires for stems...sharp ones...and he told me to come to his office and get some high fiber canned food, which I did, and went to the drugstore and got PeptoBismal which I gave him every two hours and gave him not only the canned food but bran flakes and All-Bran, too. I guess it helped. We're not at the ER, anyhow.

11133. Absensia - 8/26/2001 10:21:16 AM

Judith, Thanks for keeping me in the right thread.
Glad to hear Klaus is okay...but I assume he's spending a LOT of time outside, right now. Too bad he didn't have his hemp sandals to chew on.

11134. joezan - 8/26/2001 11:25:07 AM

The wife and older daughter, after the Ballon Shaving competition...

11135. JudithAtHome - 8/26/2001 11:45:45 AM

Joezan, your family is adorable...when can we see you?

11136. arkymalarky - 8/26/2001 11:46:25 AM

Abs,
Size 8 is not generally my size, unfortunately. I wonder if since I fit into that dress I don't need to go on the diet/exercise program I'd planned to start.

Frank,

I'm sorry about your day. Go buy yourself a Rowenta. You've earned it. ;-)

I never did figure that building out. I'll have to remember to ask someone. My grandad used to say, "Run to the roundhouse, Sally, for they cannot corner you there."

Any decent mall is about an hour and a half drive from us. The one we went to is the most convenient. I generally go twice a year--to hit end of summer and end of winter sales. The challenge is to find at least one thing, hopefully several, that I really like at a very cut price. I won't buy anything with a visible brand name unless it's something I really, really love. I have a problem with paying other people money to advertise their stuff for them. The only exception I can think of offhand is a charcoal gray, short, ribbed knit turtleneck Ralph Lauren dress that I bought for a song because of a loose seam (even I can fix that), which has a little RL logo on the collar.

Judith,
I'm so glad. I knew it was cheaper than they run, but I didn't know how much. This iron works beautifully. Bob woke up looking for something to iron. I kid you not.

I'm glad it looks like Klaus is going to be ok. Is the basket salvageable? (I know the oranges aren't--heh)

11137. arkymalarky - 8/26/2001 11:49:34 AM

He's adorable too, Judith, iirc. I think he posted a picture a long time ago.
She's right, Joe. Great looking family and wonderful pictures. If you keep posting them you may wind up with a herd of Moties headed your way on vacation.

11138. JudithAtHome - 8/26/2001 11:56:07 AM

The basket is history....makes me weep because even in line to pay for my stuff, people commented on it and asked if there were more. When that happens, you know it is going to sell.

I paid about $50 more for my Rowenta so you definitely did well! Be sure to tell Bob; it will make the ironing all the sweeter...ha!

Klaus is just lazing around in the window seat this morning. I haven't the heart to exile him outside in the heat...not so Keoni, who is giving golf lessons this morning. Klaus finally balked at the syringes full of Pepto and we had to mix it with bran flakes after 4 doses. He is not a fan of things pink.

As we were giving him the first dose, Keoni shoved the battered basket in his face and said "Bad dog!" I'm sure Klaus was impressed.

11139. arkymalarky - 8/26/2001 12:03:18 PM

Bob chased Diva around the yard yesterday with a shovel-load of dog poop, like she knew what that was all about. I know she's short-legged, but right off the porch steps is not going to cut it for her morning poops. She doesn't want to get her feet wet with dew.

11140. JudithAtHome - 8/26/2001 12:03:58 PM

Doggie galoshes!

11141. Absensia - 8/26/2001 12:07:16 PM

Arky, sure...make me feel really bad..grrr, exercise program indeed.

Joezan, good lookin' wimmen folk.

11142. Frankster - 8/26/2001 4:45:38 PM

Arky,

I brought the problem on myself, but a big "thank you" for your well wishes anyway. I haven't done anything like that in years, so it's tearing me up inside. I didn't get any sleep last night as my conscience kept me awake all morning.

You still haven't found out what that metal structure is ? Next time I'm down there -- and there will be a next time -- I'm shooting for a different tour guide. ;-)

Abs,

I'm sorry it came out that way last night, and a big "thank you" for being a good sport about it.

Joe -- What's the climate like right now in your area, and are there any good single women in the 30 to 40 year old range ? ;-)

11143. Absensia - 8/26/2001 4:53:06 PM

Frank...don't know what happened...isn't my business, but I am sure sorry you feel so bad. And
you shouldn't worry...I was laughing when you said how happy you were to find the Rowena chat. MGleason and I were laughing about it before I told you about it. Now, stop beating up on yourself. Everyone says you are a lovely person but none of us are perfect.

Arky, Bob sure knows how to have fun early in the morning.

11144. Frankster - 8/26/2001 5:07:12 PM

Abs,

If you want to know, you can e-mail me at <<< me_palani@yahoo.com >>>. I feel like a 10 pound bag of shit ... make that a 170lb bag of shit.

Arky, Bob sure knows how to have fun early in the morning.

LOL ! Now THAT made me smile. Having met the Arky's, and knowing what their yard looks like, I can visualize Bob doing that.

Okay, my lunch date isn't here yet, so I'm taking off without her.

11145. DanDillon - 8/26/2001 9:31:39 PM

Might sound kinda funny if not wholly premature, but I'm looking forward to the change of seasons and all that autumn brings. Especially soup. And Thanksgiving.

11146. arkymalarky - 8/26/2001 10:11:32 PM

Hey, Frank, next time you're down here, you'll get the De-luxe tour, and hopefully the building will be finished. I hope you're not still too upset over whatever was bugging you earlier. Sometimes the things we bring on ourselves are the hardest ones to endure.

Abs,
You just wouldn't believe the exciting life we lead out here.

Dan,
I'm with you. When I start back to school I always start longing for that fall nip in the air (which is slower coming than where you are), and thinking about high school football games, parades, county fairs, and such.

11147. Erinys - 8/26/2001 10:15:29 PM

I'm with ya, DanDillon, we had a whiff of that morning cold snap smell last week and it was heaven.

11148. Erinys - 8/26/2001 10:24:03 PM

joezan, great pictures - your daughter takes after your wife in looks? Nice eyebrows. We went to a picnic tonight with a balloon toss, no shaving. Your park is prettier.

Cheer up, Frankster.

I was out deadheading my clumps of black-eyed susans this evening. Also I trimmed a little maple tree that is now taller than I am. It grew a lot this year - it was knee high this spring. My basil plants are bushes - I have a lot of the purple basil and don't really know what to do with it. I make pesto out of the green kind, but the purple has a licorice taste to it that might not go well in pesto.

11149. Shannon - 8/26/2001 10:24:07 PM

I'm just looking forward to it being below 90. That's as much of a fall as we usually get. Although last year we did get a good bit of color.

I completed a project today. Yay, me. OK, DH helped. Edged and put down rocks and stepping stones in the flowerbed in front of our front door. So we have a walkway of sorts now. Looks pretty good. Once it cools of a bit, I'll start tackling the rest of the bed. Too hot to plant now. Although I did plant a nandina next to the walkway--they're pretty hardy, and it's a fairly shady spot, so hopefully it'll do OK.

11150. Erinys - 8/26/2001 10:38:13 PM

Nothing like prettying up the entrance to give you a smile when you get home!

11151. Absensia - 8/26/2001 11:34:30 PM

Dan,
I'm with you too. It has warmed up and is around 80 again, though it won't be for long. I love fall, the colors of the leaves, the crisp feeling in the air, fall foods, and all the holidays coming up.

Erinys,
I've used purple basil in pesto. It's a little different but good. I just did a quick search for purple pesto And found a lot of nice sounding recipes.

11152. ronski - 8/27/2001 8:09:58 AM

We have hummingbirds around constantly now. Since they seem not to fighting with one another, I can only guess that they are from the same family, with the parents teaching the young how to feed. They seem more or less full grown, though I do not see any extra mature males with the red breast developed. They will be leaving for the Caribbean and South America in a couple of weeks. I hope they're doing okay, because one of their main food sources, the jewel weed or touch-me-not, seems in surprisingly short supply this year, probably because the summer has turned fairly dry in the Northeast.

It was my partner's birthday this weekend. I made him crabcakes and steak Saturday, and a white sheet cake with strawberry icing, and yesterday he opened presents. Then I napped.

11153. Frankster - 8/27/2001 8:53:21 AM

Thanks, Erinys. I will.It'll pass.

I saw my yearly quota for hummingbirds at Arky's place a few weeks ago. I couldn't believe there were so many in one place (feeder). I generally see a hummingbird once or twice a year.

sigh Time to hit the old grind again. Shoot!

11154. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 9:01:33 AM

With tomatoes aplenty we made freezer tomato sauce this weekend, and tomato salad, and finished up more fresh tomato sauce from last week in addition to eating sliced tomatoes at lunch. I'm starting to bring one a day to work at lunch too....gotta do something with them all.

We also went to a stone place and got an eyeful of stone. We have to fix up a lot of concrete work around the outside of our house before we can sell it, so hubby's going to contact a landscaping-concrete firm today.

Anyone know much about stamped concrete and how it looks? How it holds up? Seeing as we plan on selling the house in a couple of years, we want it too look attractive for low cost --save the $$ for the new house.

11155. glendajean - 8/27/2001 10:29:10 AM

Went on a church retreat this weekend to a hilly, wooded area south of Indy.

I saw an incredible number of butterflies.

I knew it was a good year for them by seeing all the activity in my home garden. But the ones I saw out in the country were incredible. Large, multi-colored, in multiple numbers. They twirled, flittered and clustered.

One that I saw several times was black with an aqua edging on the lower wing.

I returned Sunday to dig a new bed, and to work through the one I had started two weeks ago. I used to double ditch, but am now just turning the grass over, letting it die, and then work the organic material in as I break up the clods with a hoe. This keeps all the top soil in the bed, provides additional organic matter from the decaying grass, and saves some time on hauling away grass.

11156. seadate - 8/27/2001 11:46:51 AM

thoughtful,

I'm not an expert, but stamped concrete is abundant in my neck of the woods (Gulf Coast). Has a nice look and is economical.

11157. glendajean - 8/27/2001 12:26:51 PM

The best concrete bricks that I have seen are "buffered," which means they've been rolled or tumbled, giving the surface a milky clouded texture, more akin to stone than concrete.

They can be bought at Lowes or Home Depot, but are probably more expensive than stamped concrete.

11158. JudithAtHome - 8/27/2001 12:36:07 PM

Thoughtful:

The rich guy who lives across the road from us had his driveway done in really beautiful and polished stamped concrete...it looks like inlaid terra cotta stones and is very complementary to his huge ranchhouse and the rest of his spread...stables, etc. I'm sure it was frightfully expensive, though...he had crews out there all summer long doing the work and the finishing. Of course, he also had full grown trees brought in and casually strewn about the grounds in a big landscaping do-over, too, so I'm guessing he can afford it.

11159. mgleason - 8/27/2001 12:39:31 PM

Arky, what model iron did you get? I ordered one for Eddie last week, after Judith, Absensia, and I talked about it, and he's waiting with the proverbial bated breath.

11160. theDiva - 8/27/2001 12:45:10 PM

Rowentas are awesome. Mom got Greg one for Christmas, and we love it! don't know the model, tho. big ole heavy thing.

11161. JudithAtHome - 8/27/2001 12:51:01 PM

Mine is a Rowenta Professional Inox, whatever that means.

11162. JudithAtHome - 8/27/2001 12:52:38 PM

(Maybe Inox means ionized water or something...??)

Iron Not On Xday?

11163. Frankster - 8/27/2001 12:54:58 PM

yawn
I got to see one of these things. What's it do beside ironing, shred, slice, knit buttonholes ? You guys are making this thing to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Wait, does it perhaps do that also ? ;-)

yawn

11164. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 12:56:53 PM

Thanks for the info...good to know it can look nice. I've seen some coated concrete stuff that looks terribly fake that we didn't want. They also do some interesting things with exposed aggregate concrete which has possibilities...the nicest part being that it's easy to make curves with concrete...much more expensive due to all the cuts to try to do with block or brick.

Also, our ranch is a brick ranch...looks similar to those I've seen in the south...and I'm afraid a brick walk and patio will be just too much brick. Need something warmer with another texture to keep it interesting.

11165. Frankster - 8/27/2001 12:57:07 PM

There should have been a question mark after ironing, by the way. I need some sleep.

11166. PelleNilsson - 8/27/2001 12:59:55 PM

Update on the vacation. This year's grand projet, the refurbishment of the roof, almost rained away but the last week or so was fine so in the end we managed.

Nature is quiet at this time of the year. The small birds have started their move to the winter quarters. Most go to Africa, although some stop in south Europe and others prefer west Asia as far away as Pakistan. We had to be satisfied with the faithful pair of ravens and the woodpeckers. We have the three major varieties: the Great Spotted Woodpecker, the Black Woodpecker and the Green Woodpecker. The second one is a beutiful bird. The Jay who comes by from time to time is also nice but very noisy.

On the lake we had five Arctic Loons who paraded back and forth at about breakfast time. A pair of cranes made on overnight stop somewhere in the vicinity - a rare ocurrence.

One morning we saw fresh elk droppings just beyond the outhouse. These big animals move very quitely and are almost possible to see unless they are in an open field.

The new chainsaw worked satisfactory. We gave the old one to our godson who has recently bought a place not far away and who has a friend who is reputed to be able to fix anything of a mechanical nature.

11167. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 1:02:17 PM

Elk impossible to see....Haha. Reminds me of our walk in Banff when we met an elk coming the other way down the main drag. Quite a site to see. Not quite trained enough to stop at red lights, but she sure acted familiar with the place.

11168. Shannon - 8/27/2001 1:08:34 PM

We had 2 roaming the parking lot of our hotel in Banff. And they love the golf course apparently.

11169. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 1:12:33 PM

Hey Shannon...maybe we saw the same one? 4 legs, big, brown?

11170. mgleason - 8/27/2001 1:13:52 PM

Frank,

Kindly expel whatever bug is plaguing you before you attract the attention of the professional butt waxers. I guarantee you'll be much more unhappy than you are now.

11171. Shannon - 8/27/2001 1:18:38 PM

4 legs, big, brown?

I think so! What are the odds?

Small world, I tell ya.

11172. JudithAtHome - 8/27/2001 1:24:08 PM

Do you think it might be the same one I saw in Maine?!!

Uh, no...that was a moose.

11173. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 1:44:29 PM

I didn't ask, but suspect the one I saw was named Elk E. Sommers.

Judith, you probably saw Moose-olini.

11174. bubbaette - 8/27/2001 2:06:41 PM

Did I hyear somebody around hyear say somethin bout needin butt waxing?

11175. PelleNilsson - 8/27/2001 2:06:47 PM

I guarantee you that in a forest with some undervegetation you can stand 30 ft from an elk and you won't see it.

11176. mgleason - 8/27/2001 2:10:00 PM

See? There's no escape from a butt-waxer on a mission!

11177. Absensia - 8/27/2001 2:10:29 PM

Hello...is this the Rowena help line???

11178. Absensia - 8/27/2001 2:11:24 PM

But moose leave droppings just to taunt you, right?

11179. mgleason - 8/27/2001 2:12:29 PM

How may we help you iron out your problems?

11180. JudithAtHome - 8/27/2001 2:13:13 PM

Do you have a pressing problem, Abs?

11181. Absensia - 8/27/2001 2:13:52 PM

RME...is there a 12 step program...I think I'm a Rowena addict.

11182. Absensia - 8/27/2001 2:14:39 PM

You two are starting to make me steam.

11183. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 2:16:36 PM

You guys really know how to mangle a phrase.

This Rowena thing has clearly added a new wrinkle to the ironing problem.

11184. mgleason - 8/27/2001 2:19:12 PM

Don't make me break out my 3-iron!

11185. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 2:20:24 PM

Ironic that this anemic attempt at humor is found in the "Good Life" Thread.

Millard Fillmote

11186. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 2:21:28 PM

Pelle,
I don't think I could stand 30 feet from an elk....heck I wouldn't know what to do with one elk's foot.
}:-)

11187. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 2:22:27 PM

I like that, pp, fillmote.
Just call me Tom Postone

11188. JudithAtHome - 8/27/2001 2:26:36 PM

Okay guys...gotta go. Keoni just returned from the ER where he was sent because his doctor couldn't see him. He has a temp of 101° and can barely move without pain in his upper back...their brilliant assessment? He has strained his back with too much golf. I've never heard of a muscle strain causing a fever.

He's full of drugs now and snoring on the couch...went to the pharmacy at Albertsons and got the pills. He saw that one of them must be taken with food so he also picked up a 3 layer chocolate cake. Guess he thinks he might as well enjoy feeling bad...

11189. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 2:28:11 PM

Thoughtful...today in class, for a brief but sunny monent, I introduced myself as Dr Millard Fillmore. They wrote it down despite a course outline disputing the claim.

11190. Absensia - 8/27/2001 2:31:49 PM

Judith,
Nope, never heard of golf giving you that kind of fever. But, I am sure you will make it all right...I can just see you on the phone to the regular doc...and why did the e.r. give him meds if he has golf strain? Sigh.

PP,
What? You told me that was your name. : -)
Wow, you are tough..first day of the semester and you expect them to write AND read.

11191. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 2:33:21 PM

Abs...expectations run high for my advanced seminars.

11192. ronski - 8/27/2001 2:33:31 PM

PP,

Did any of them ask why you signed the Fugitive Slave Act into law?

11193. mgleason - 8/27/2001 2:33:42 PM

Besides, you never know what'll be on the test.

My sympathies to Keoni, J.

11194. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 2:38:41 PM

Ronski...next class, pop quiz...MG...scouting motto, huh..BTW, I intend to start being different people, selecting persona on a random or first come first served basis. Lately I have been totally unintersted in any aspect of my self, and feel that something simply has to be done.

Ed Gleason

11195. mgleason - 8/27/2001 2:41:27 PM

Well, at least you won't be iron-y impaired!

11196. Absensia - 8/27/2001 2:42:25 PM

PP,
Maria is right. They know you expect a lot out of them, so they are writing it all down. I wonder if they'll greet you as Professor Fillmore tomorrow?

11197. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 2:42:48 PM

J@H, be sure to check him for rashes or a sign of a bite of some sort....I know in our area, the first thing we think of with severe body aches localized to one area and a fever is lyme disease. If that's the case, the sooner you get him on antibiotics, the better. I had it once, my dad had it twice.

11198. Absensia - 8/27/2001 2:43:50 PM

PP,
Do I hear a little dePRESSion?

11199. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 2:46:26 PM

11200. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 2:46:27 PM

pp, don't think there aren't times that the shoe is on the other foot. I knew a fellow who would purposely make up words and put them in his term papers, and he said only one or two profs ever picked up on it.

11201. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 2:47:16 PM

Marj, make me want to sing, "I Got a Lover-ly Bunch of Coconuts!"

11202. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 2:49:38 PM

I hope no one minds if I post a few photographs here from the weekend. They're the Good Life a la marjoribanks, after all.

The one above was taken at one of my favorite stalls at the fantastic Union Square Greenmarket.

The rest are of a day trip yesterday. Can anyone guess the destination?

11203. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 2:49:52 PM

Where Millard Professes...

11204. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 2:50:30 PM

11205. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 2:53:11 PM

Atlantic City area...Wildwood?

11206. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 2:53:15 PM

11207. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 2:53:51 PM

11208. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 2:55:00 PM

Nope, PP.

You can take the subway there. This last one is from the ride over.

11209. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 2:56:22 PM

Thoughtful,

You do realize those are tomatoes, right?

That stall has a brilliant variety of tomatoes and peppers, and especially now in the summer just looks fantastically colorful. I had to stand on a bucket to get that photo.

11210. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 2:58:36 PM

Jones? Coney?

11211. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 3:07:29 PM

marj, please. I've been eating tomatoes since before I could remember and probably started planting the darn things when I was 3. But the song is about coconuts....I don't know one that says, "I Got a Lover-ly Bunch of Tomatoes."

11212. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 3:08:21 PM

Coney Island.

A surprisingly clean beach, an outrageously diverse clientele, good hot dogs, a surprisingly high quotient of quality bikini-wearers.

A good time was had by all.

11213. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 3:08:53 PM

I prefer Lime in my Coconut...

11214. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 3:11:34 PM

Brother bought a coconut, he bought it for a dime
His sister had another one, she paid it for the lime

She put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both together
She put the lime in thecoconut, drink 'em both up
She put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both together
Put the lime in the coconut, call the doctor, woke him up, say

Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, I say
Doctor! To relieve this bellyache, I say
Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, I say
Doctor! To relieve my bellyache

I put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both together
Put the lime in the coconut, I drink 'em both down
I put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both together
Put the lime in the coconut, call de Doctor, woke him up, say

Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, I say
Doctor! To relieve my bellyache, I say
Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, I say
Doctor! And he say, lemme get this straight

You put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both together
Put the lime in the coconut, you drink 'em both up
You put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both together
Put the lime in the coconut, call de Doctor, woke him up, say

Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, you say
Doctor! To relieve your bellyache, you say
Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, you say
Doctor! You such a silly woman

Put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both together
Put the lime in the coconut, then you feel better
Put the lime in the coconut, drink 'em both down
Put the lime in the coconut, an' call me in the mo-o-o-ornin'

{Repeat once from start}

Woo, woo, ain't there nothin' I can take, I say
Woo, woo, to relieve my bellyache, I say
Doctor! Doctor! Ain't there nothin' I can take, I say
Yah, yah, to relieve my bellyache

11215. theDiva - 8/27/2001 3:15:34 PM

Banks

Dammit. Stop making miss NY, already.

11216. bubbaette - 8/27/2001 3:16:52 PM

Aren't coconuts chock full of saturated fat?

11217. mgleason - 8/27/2001 3:17:48 PM

Ach, Prof. We saw Reservoir Dogs this weekend; lime in the coconut, indeed.

11218. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 3:18:07 PM

And no warning label.

11219. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 3:18:35 PM

No insult intended, thoughtful.

The mango fellow in #11202 cuts his mangos into a kind of tulip-shape and you eat it off a stick, with a dusting of chili. It was pretty good. The guy was from Mexico, and said it was a standard street-food there.

I've actually never seen it before but a friend (who I sent the photo to) says that it's something that's hit NYC this year and can be seen in a number of neighborhoods.

11220. marjoribanks - 8/27/2001 3:22:26 PM

Diva,

This was the "authentic" NYC experience all right. On blankets next to us were Russians eating potatoes with dill, Chinese eating some unidentifiable buns stuffed with something or other, that mango guy, Trinis eating roti, some old school fat Italian guys puffing on stogies, and some tattooed biker guys openly toking on a bong. Plus that black clad Chinese artist in the photo above, busily scribbling away.

It ain't Palm Beach, but I like it.

11221. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 3:30:19 PM

pp, I always thought it was Lion in the coconut which referred to some alcoholic drink...not lime.

11222. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 3:30:43 PM

so much for what I know of geezer rock

11223. theDiva - 8/27/2001 3:31:15 PM

sigh

It's BETTER than Palm Beach.

11224. theDiva - 8/27/2001 3:32:02 PM

geezer rock

hahahahahah

11225. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 3:32:19 PM

Thoughtful...comments like that bring on butt waxes.

11226. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 3:32:49 PM

That goes for you to Yankit lover.

11227. theDiva - 8/27/2001 3:35:37 PM

Aw bite me, Mezz Mezzrow.

11228. thoughtful - 8/27/2001 3:38:58 PM

I first heard that expression on tv quite a few years back when the stones were on their last tour and they were interviewing a young person who said something about some of that geezer rock ain't bad. I was shocked! I'm not a geezer!

Just like the mother who overheard her young daughter talking with a friend about Wings and said, did you know Paul used to be with another band?

11229. Frankster - 8/27/2001 4:10:48 PM

Maria,

Frank,

Kindly expel whatever bug is plaguing you before you attract the attention of the professional butt waxers. I guarantee you'll be much more unhappy than you are now.

Let's just say I harmed someone I shouldn't have harmed. I had no reason to. There. Prepare the buttwaxing.

11230. mgleason - 8/27/2001 4:20:49 PM

Repent, dear boy, and make reparation. You'll both be better off, truly.

11231. theDiva - 8/27/2001 4:22:43 PM

(busily plugging in the waxpots)

11232. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 4:26:32 PM

Nuke em...it's faster and more efficient.

11233. theDiva - 8/27/2001 4:27:48 PM

nah, you get hotspots that way.

11234. PsychProf - 8/27/2001 4:29:40 PM

Diffusion and Electrostatic Pressure will nullify and undue heat loci.

11235. theDiva - 8/27/2001 4:34:04 PM

hanh?

11236. arkymalarky - 8/27/2001 8:03:28 PM

Maria,
Mine says Professional Inox, too.

PP,
That whole Nilsson album is really good.

11237. joezan - 8/27/2001 10:20:00 PM

Thanks for the kind comments, all.

And very nice veggie photos, marj. I liked the, ummm...beach tomatoes especially.

Judith:

Well, being the shutterbug (my wife hates to take pictures), there are very few photos of me in our possession. But there is this terrible shot of me mid-babble, with a couple of friends around the campfire, taken a couple of weeks ago when I was up at Higgins Lake fishing:

Frank:

The weather here is beautiful right now -although it has rained some the past couple of days. The summer is waning, and we're in the high-70's - low-80's, probably for a couple more weeks before it starts cooling. As for available women, I wouldn't know, being a married guy. But I hear tell there are plenty.

One thing I will say - this being a very heavily Dutch area, there are more beautiful, tall, blonde women than anywhere else I've ever been, including Cali.

11238. Erinys - 8/27/2001 10:49:38 PM

joezan, that beard really shows off your babble! And such a nice shiny knee!

11239. joezan - 8/27/2001 10:57:58 PM

You like that, huh?

My knees are my finest feature.

11240. Erinys - 8/27/2001 10:58:26 PM

woops, missed a bunch of messages

ronski, now you've got me craving crabcakes. Strawberry icing - is that with a liquid flavoring, or real strawberries?

Absensia, thanks for those purple pesto links. I think I'll try the Sycamore Farms recipe since it was mentioned a lot. A woman at work gave me a bag of cherry tomotoes today. Maybe I'll make some sun-dried tomatoes before I harvest my basil for the pesto. Store-bought sun-drieds seem to be very salty. I found directions on how to dry the tomatoes and it seems fairly simple, and I've even got a screen and cheescloth handy.

thoughtful, BH&G Sept 2001 issue just had a little article about fancy driveways. According to that, imprinted and colored asphalt is $3.50-$.00 per sq foot; see streetprint.com. Imprinted concrete is $5-$8 per sq foot; see bomanite.com.

Judith, I hope Keoni's fever is down. Did the cake help?

marjoribanks, ah, Coney Island looked great. I'd like to try one of those mangoes on a stick.

Geezer rock, heh. I like that Schmilsson, too.

11241. Erinys - 8/27/2001 11:03:16 PM

Well, yes, your shiny knee is a fine feature. The beard really does look good. A guy at work is trying to grow one like yours....but his hair is light brown with gray and his just doesn't have the definition yours does.

11242. joezan - 8/27/2001 11:05:27 PM

Hey - I kinda like that...my beard has "definition".

11243. theDiva - 8/28/2001 8:19:46 AM

joe

you look exactly like I thought you would. So cute!

11244. ronski - 8/28/2001 8:43:42 AM

Erinys,

Real strawberries. Softened sweet butter (one stick), confectioners sugar (one box), and enough macerated (steeped in sugar for a while) strawberries to make the glop nice, pink, and creamy. You start with a little, then slowly add more. I actually used part of a container of frozen strawberries. Not the kind frozen in bags, but one of those little containers that are shaped vaguely like tins of spam.

11245. Erinys - 8/28/2001 9:33:50 AM

Hadn't thought of the frozen ones! I was imagining mashing up real strawberries and it sounded lumpy, rather than creamy. That's a good idea.

Those spammed strawberries are yummy on ice cream.

11246. JudithAtHome - 8/28/2001 9:53:02 AM

Erinys:

The cake performed miracles...he's gone to work today.

Joezan:

You look exactly like our friend Jamie, only with more hair!

11247. thoughtful - 8/28/2001 10:09:18 AM

Thanks Erinys...I'm sending hubby out to look at the issue today.

11248. glendajean - 8/28/2001 10:29:04 AM

I am in gardening Nirvana. I've got four more beds to lay out, and then a lot of organic mixing before they are reading for planting, but after a year of visualizing where I want things, it is great to actually make it happen.

And I haven't even begun to buy plants. This is good, because it will give me more time to work on the quality of the soil.

That's what I like about end of summer and fall garden work. There is not near as much pressure as one feels in the spring where every day can be a deadline for putting in seed, planting or feeding.

11249. ronski - 8/28/2001 12:12:05 PM

Goldfinches are everywhere now. It was fun watching a bunch of them flitting about some native perennial sunflowers this morning, trying to see if any seeds were ripe yet. Their feathers were exactly the color of the petals.

11250. ronski - 8/28/2001 12:20:59 PM

And I think that fresh strawberries, unless alowed to sit in sugar for a long time before using, would indeed make the icing lumpy. The ones frozen in syrup though are already a little soft, and blend in nicely with a little elbow grease.

I like buttercream frostings because they're yummy and easy. For vanilla, use the same amount of butter and sugar as indicated for the strawberry above, then add vanilla flavor and some milk to soften it. For chocolate, you add Hershey's cocoa powder (it's the best for this) to that; there is a recipe for it on the tin, I think. You can also make lemon (with juice or flavoring), almond (with flavoring), or one of my favorites, a mixture of lemon, almond and vanilla. I use those three flavors when I make cheesecake, in a way that none of the flavors predominates. It's delicious.

I also use icing and frosting interchangeably. Is this acceptable?

11251. rubberducky - 8/28/2001 12:47:03 PM

depends if you are talking about a mob hit or not.

11252. joezan - 8/28/2001 10:33:10 PM

Diva:

Aw, shucks...thanks.

Judith:

You can see my hair?

ronski:

Serious question, since you see a lot of 'em:

Do the goldfinches around you have a knack for flying into moving cars, as they do here?

I swear, a day doesn't go by I don't see at least one of them dead on the road.

11253. thoughtful - 8/29/2001 8:43:49 AM

I dunno, but I see lots of birds that swoop down in front of my car all summer long...I've always wondered if the car's passing stirs up bugs or something making for such risk-taking behavior, or if birds just react differently to the sound/noise/speed. I'm always amazed that they have such acute vision to see their way to fly quickly through trees, yet can't distinguish a window from the woods.

11254. glendajean - 8/29/2001 10:27:01 AM

Our first summer here, we lost 3 doves to a backyard window. And in DC, there was one bird that routinely flew into the same window over and over. I think it was brain-damaged in the process.

11255. Erinys - 8/29/2001 10:30:08 AM

There's kamikaze butterflies that regularly smash themselves into the windows here at work.

One male goose almost pecked itself to death, thinking that the other (reflected) goose was trying to get at it's mate nest. Animal control had to haul it off after it bloodied itself.

11256. Erinys - 8/29/2001 10:31:20 AM

That goose did come back, a bit calmer. They put a cam on the nest and we had an office bet on when the eggs would hatch.

11257. thoughtful - 8/29/2001 10:44:55 AM

My mom had a bird that kept banging its head into the back door window attacking the reflected bird image. She put a colorful cloth over the window and the bird went away.

11258. ronski - 8/29/2001 12:22:26 PM

I haven't noticed any dead goldfinches on the road. Just deer, squirrels, skunks, groundhogs, frogs, and the occasional possum.

I have seen a male cardinal atttack its image in a car's side-view mirror, however, something I hear they're noted for.

11259. ronski - 8/29/2001 12:29:14 PM

I have apparently solved the problem of birds flying into windows by hanging plants outside the one that seemed to cause most of the killings. I forget the name of the plant, but it is in the tradescantia/wandering jew family, and has small dark green leaves with a purple reverse, and tiny white flowers that look liked beads of dew. I keep them hanging up there during the winter, since they don't look too bad when dried. I get two new ones every year. Eventually I'd like to get an artisan to make a stained glass window to replace the clear glass there. The design will have a hummingbird feeding at a jewel plant, with the mountains in the background. We also don't feed the birds right on the deck anymore because of the bears, and that cuts down on the bird casualties as well.

11260. thoughtful - 8/29/2001 12:46:13 PM

Ronski, flipping channels late last night and caught a piece where a fellow was up on his deck and watched as a bear most insistently rolled an old oven down the hill that he had stored under the deck. The video showed the bear doing this...s/he must've been doing a kitchen remodel in the den!

11261. PelleNilsson - 8/29/2001 1:57:41 PM

Bears eat birds?

11262. thoughtful - 8/29/2001 2:43:11 PM

came across a most beautiful mag of interior design called Veranda.

11263. ronski - 8/29/2001 2:44:00 PM

thoughtful,

Another weekend warrior, as seen on HGTV, perhaps? More likely the oven had residue of roasts that the bear was interested in.

Pelle: Bears eat birds?

Not really, though I imagine they may occasionally take a Canada goose, just as they will sometimes kill a deer. The diet of the local black bear is about 85 percent vegetable matter and about 15 percent other (whatever they can get their paws on). They will generally leave birds to cats and hawks and such.

But the birdseed attracts bears to the deck, so the feeders there had to go. Without the feeders on the deck, there are fewer birds in the immediate vicinity of the house and thus fewer crashes into the windows.

We feed the birds now only in the cold months when the bears are asleep, and then only at some distance from the house. But we still have enough birds around the house for us to enjoy. Insects alone attract quite a few. And there are some berries and seed plants in the area, including some virginia creeper which fruits this time of year, growing in the nearby hemlock trees. We also still have a hummingbird feeder on a tree next to the deck, which the bear seems to ignore.

11264. Erinys - 8/29/2001 3:14:39 PM

I found some strawberries growing in a strange corner of my yard. I had ripped all the strawberries out last year becaue I got too lazy to bend over and pick them. I might try them in hanging pots next year.

Well, I finally figured out that the birds had transplanted the strawberries for me. They like to sit on that fence corner and void.

thoughtful, I was disappointed the Veranda link didn't show any teaser pages. "Apple green gives bit to home decor" - I just put a green apple border in my kitchen, recently.

11265. PelleNilsson - 8/29/2001 4:07:40 PM

A few pics from the countryside.

The road there:

The cottage from the lake:

The heather was in full bloom:

Me and other members in our ceremonial headgear. Don't ask me to explain. Just note that the green things are not ear protection gear but army issue drinking mugs.

11266. ronski - 8/29/2001 4:16:26 PM

Lovely pictures.

11267. thoughtful - 8/29/2001 4:36:32 PM

very nice, especially the heather. I will reserve any fashion critique on the headgear.

Though fashionable head gear reminds me that my mother and friends once made it into Life magazine back in the 50s. She had told me about it, but when I was at the Boston Public Library which keeps bound mags on the shelves I went hunting for it and sure enough found it.

She had made hats for two other couples and themselves for a trip to Coney Island...she figured that way they could more easily find each other in the crowd....they looked sort of like the soft WWI army hats, though made out of brown felt with HGTC on the side for "Heck of a Good Time Club." The Life photog came up to them, asked what the letters stood for and took their picture. They were so pleased. Imagine their shock when they found it used in an article about how Americans have absolutely no fashion sense whatsoever!

11268. glendajean - 8/29/2001 4:59:59 PM

Great pictures, Pelle. I am envious. I love to take walks down country lanes like the one in your picture. Hope you are enjoying the woods for all of us city-bound folk.

Funny story, thoughtful. I'd love to see that picture. You know you can often find old copies of Life on eBay's auction site, or at the used book store site, www.abebooks.com

11269. ronski - 8/29/2001 8:11:04 PM

I have opened at bottle of chardonnay from Slovenia. It's breathing now. Or perhaps gasping. The cork smelled like... a cork. Slavic wines are not exactly world renowned, and this one was only three dollars marked down from five...

But the name of the vineyard sounds Italian, so maybe it won't be so bad.

11270. ronski - 8/29/2001 8:21:26 PM

The verdict is in.

It is a good two-dollar wine.

11271. joezan - 8/29/2001 9:12:53 PM

You're a sick man, Pelle.

But that is some lovely country. I dream of having a lake-side cottage just like that.

11272. joezan - 8/29/2001 10:22:15 PM

We made only our 2nd outing last night to this summer's Tuesdays in the Park concert series in Grand Haven's Central Park. Both times have been excellent, and I wish we had made it to more of them.

The first one band we saw, back in June, was a traditional Peruvian band, Ingapirca. Since then, they have featured bands from Brazil, a steel drum gospel band from Trinidad, and a band from Senegal, as well as good ol' American bluegrass, country, and folk bands.

Last night's offering was this Celtic band, Oxster-Mahone. (Actually, they're from Grand Rapids, although the blonde lady is from Ireland). They were very good, and did mostly originals:

11273. theDiva - 8/30/2001 8:35:59 AM

Great pictures!

I loooooove Pelle's hats. And they call you Swedes dour and humorless.

11274. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 8:36:15 AM

We met with architect last night and reviewed pictures I've cut from mags on styles I like. We've narrowed it down to federalist-gothic-english country-adirondack with a touch of Frank Lloyd Wright.

I guess I'm definitely an eclectic kind of gal.

11275. theDiva - 8/30/2001 9:27:50 AM

what did I miss, thoughtful, are you having a house built?!?!

11276. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 10:19:24 AM

Yeah, or we're trying to. We have about 12 acres that hubby inherited from his grandmother. We have to tear down the existing house which is a wreck but has some interesting elements like hand-hewn beams we might be able to preserve. Then we will build the new one and hopefully move in. It will be the home for us for the rest of our lives. So we are having an architect design it.

11277. theDiva - 8/30/2001 10:20:55 AM

oooooohhhhh......I am simply agog. You will, of course, be taking scads of pictures?

11278. Erinys - 8/30/2001 10:26:38 AM

PelleNilsson, those hats are cool! I bet it's hard to do a quick sideways glance wearing one, though.

thoughtful, yes, pictures! of the eclectic creation when it's done. How long does that cycle take - architect, builder, to movie-in?

11279. Erinys - 8/30/2001 10:27:16 AM

er...move in
Will it be a ranch?

11280. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 10:29:13 AM

We both are practical and don't want to build a McMansion like is so common in our area. We also don't want a huge house with all the expenses and maintenance headaches as we will be supporting it off of our retirement income. And we don't want to waste money on 2-story foyers and fancy living rooms which no one ever uses. So we are getting much more into the "Not So Big House" movement. See here.

11281. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 10:34:47 AM

If you go to the site, click on "Architects & Designers" and look at the house there. I told him I want it to be "adorable". Probably mostly english country cottage as I'm thinking of it now, but we want a 3-story high glass atrium in the back for the stair case...the back is on a southern facing slope overlooking the pond and the woods.

11282. JudithAtHome - 8/30/2001 10:36:27 AM

My aunt and uncle did that, thoughtful, and they love having a smaller house. We have that already but inherited it and had some modifications done but even if we won the lottery, I wouldn't want to move.

I cannot imagine have a two story house, something I've always dreamed of after having a three story town house in Germany...after all the problems with my knee, if I had my dream, I'd be in big trouble now.

11283. JudithAtHome - 8/30/2001 10:39:56 AM

Wow, that looks more like a So Big house!

11284. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 10:53:10 AM

Well, that's why we are putting an elevator in our home or a "residential lift" as they call them. I've seen so many mc mansions (these things are 5,000, 6,000 or even 8,000 sq. ft.) where they take up the space with 2 staircases when a lift is so essential as one ages or even if one isn't so old. I remember my brother in his 20s broke his leg and ended up spending 2 mos. living in the den as he couldn't make it upstairs. Yuck.

11285. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 10:56:21 AM

The 3 stories are really only 2 stories and a finished basement....full basements are essential in the northeast in my book. As the house will be built into the hillside, the basement level will be open to the southern exposure with lots of windows so it won't feel like a basement at all. The 2nd story may be only partially finished or not at all, leaving it available for expansion in the future. The 1st floor will be the main living area including the MBR so it will mostly be one-floor living anyway. Garage will be on that level too.

11286. JudithAtHome - 8/30/2001 11:07:27 AM

My uncle once had a house designed by the architecture department at the University of Arkansas which was like that but the purpose of it was to accommodate his sound system speakers. It was a glorious house and classical music reigned supreme in the house at all times. The master bath had a corner bathroom with floor to ceiling corner window looking into the trees...my mother refused to use that bathroom because it was "exposed"...I used to tease her and comment on the voyeur birds hanging around.

The 3 floors were like decks, you could look down onto the bottom floor from the 3rd level...it was wonderfully imaginative.

The idea of a lift sounds like just the ticket...especially when I come to visit!:-)

Don't forget a built in vacuum cleaner system...

11287. Jenerator - 8/30/2001 11:17:27 AM

[Thoughtful, I meant to tell you that I read your post when you told me you're an economist. Very cool, and you're so much more sweet and interesting than the sterotypical economist!]

11288. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 11:25:47 AM

Gee shucks, thanks Jen

blush
:-)

11289. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 11:29:18 AM

Judith, yes, that's exactly what we want to do in our home.

Central vac is on the list and the architect chuckled when I told him I want a urinal in the bath...not one of those ugly men's room things, but that I'd seen one designed by an architect..discreet tube with a lid coming out of the wall at the appropriate height. He also laughed when I suggested a toilet seat that would softly lower itself when a motion detector sensed no one in front of it....hubby has this way of dropping the seat & lid sharply making a loud bang throughout the house, especially when I'm taking a weekend nap...he hates my napping.

11290. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 11:30:09 AM

It's amazing how much personal info an architect learns....maybe the press should go after them to get the dirt on the pols! No confidentiality protection there!

11291. thoughtful - 8/30/2001 11:43:04 AM

Erin, I don't know how long it will take...all I know is it will take longer and cost more than whatever you plan on.

I'm thinking about having panelized construction for the house so that the house can be closed to the weather in only a few days...then the rest of the time can be spent on the interior work. But trying to get zoning and wetlands approvals through town are a nightmare in itself, long before a hole in the ground can be started. Sigh.

11292. arkymalarky - 8/30/2001 7:48:22 PM

That's wonderful, Thoughtful! It sounds like you know exactly what you want. I love that link.

We built a fairly small two-story (2000sq ft h/c), but Bob and I won't need to use the upstairs except for company once we get tired of climbing stairs. My 70 and 65 year old parents, however, bought a house with the kitchen upstairs. Their place has a thousand and one places for people to fall and my mother is the classic klutz. They've managed over five years without a mishap, amazingly.

Judith,

I have a friend who went through the architecture program at UofA and is now with the Corps of Engineers. It's what Mose is wanting to do at the moment, so I'm glad it sounds like a great program.

11293. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 8:32:28 AM

Arky, the good news with stairs is that stairclimbing is good for your strength and your heart as long as you don't fall. The bad news is it's limiting if you do become infirmed. Hubby's aunt & uncle spent the last few years of their lives never going upstairs in their cape cod home due to arthritis and illness. Fortunately they had a bath & bedroom on the first floor.

My folks spend 6 mos of the year in FL where there are no stairs...not in homes, malls, anywhere. When they come back north the first few weeks are difficult for them as they have stairs to cope with. When they were younger, they didn't really notice, but now it's apparent and each year it gets a little tougher.

(I know way too much about aging for someone my age. It's depressing.)

11294. ronski - 8/31/2001 10:13:01 AM

Keep moving. Keep exercising. Stay as trim as possible. Consume lots of anti-oxidants in pill form (like grape seed extract) or naturally (fruits and vegetables such as blueberries, corn, carrots, cranberry juice, apples, green tea, black tea, etc.) and you increase the chances of not having serious illnesses and balance problems as you age (and thus problems with stairs).

This really isn't some sort of New Age holistic nonesense. There is a lot of evidence piling up to support this, and to support the old nostrum, An apple a day keeps the doctor away..

And believe it or not, chocolate has some anti-oxidants that seem protective of heart tissue. My 81-year-old Mom eats some every night and is in very good shape. My Dad, however, had a propensity for eating salty meats and donuts and is unfortunately quite infirm.

11295. ronski - 8/31/2001 10:19:14 AM

(My Mom also drinks lots of tea.)

11296. PelleNilsson - 8/31/2001 10:23:45 AM

In two hours I will have a hefty dose of rotten herring. See you tomorrow, inshallah.

11297. glendajean - 8/31/2001 10:24:53 AM

DC is one stairwell. When I lived there, I had 3 friends who had knee surgery in their 50s. I think all that climbing wears out the knees.

My partner's parents had small risers put in their retirement home and they are indeed easier to climb.

I agree with Ronski about diet and exercise as a way to combat aging. There are also stretching exercises that can help as well.

One that works well for me is to lie on the bed (on your back). Pull one knee forward with foot flat on bed. Lift the the other leg (the one that is extended). Pull the foot toward you. Lower and repeat several times.

I also do ankle rotations and stretches, too.

11298. glendajean - 8/31/2001 10:27:24 AM

Pelle, I love your pictures of your Swedish woodlands, but I am afraid I would have to pass on the herring.

11299. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 10:27:43 AM

Ronski,
Very sensible advice. (I especially like that chocolate part!)

One thing my yoga instructor pushed, especially for the elderly was to exercise their toes, feet and ankles every day. The toes actually support the entire weight of your body and then some as it supports the weight in motion. Further, balance requires a great deal of strength...just stand on one foot and see how long it takes for the muscles of the ankles and lower leg to feel it.

Yet as people age, they tend to flex their feet less and less, shuffling when they walk instead of picking up their feet and putting the heel down then rolling along the foot from back to front. This inability to balance and flex is part of the falling problem. Other problems are related to vision. I remember reading another problem about misestimations about how far you can reach as you get older.

(I don't know how many drivers I get behind that have that "frozen ankle" problem where they go racing downhill at 50 mph and up the next at 30 mph...pressing the accelerator is apparently too much effort!)

11300. glendajean - 8/31/2001 10:39:57 AM

thoughtful -- do you do yoga regularly? I'm getting more interested in it as a way to stretch and keep limber.

This morning, I picked 4 big tomatoes. My crop is coming in daily now.

11301. ronski - 8/31/2001 11:20:51 AM

Pelle,

I had the same trepidations before tasting my Slovenian wine.

But I rather think rotten herring cannot be bad for you. It is presumably not fatty, but does contain some of those nifty Omega-3 fish oils that raise the good cholesterol. I take three of those tablets every day, incidentally.

11302. theDiva - 8/31/2001 11:22:23 AM

why would one eat rotten herring?

11303. glendajean - 8/31/2001 11:25:26 AM

Ronski -- would you mind talking about your daily vitamin regimen?

I take one Centrum, one Vitamin E (400 whatever), and one Selenium (200 mg) each day. I also used to take Vitamin C, knowing that it was in the Centrum but thinking I would pee away any that wasn't absorbed.

Recently I heard that there is a study hinting that too much Vitamin C could distort cells in mice.

The Vitamin is supposed to be good for the heart and blood, and the selenium is based on the notion that populations with diets rich in selenium have lower percentage of tumors.

Art Molene, the doc from the Today Show suggested these as a good daily supplement.

Anybody else have vitamins that they take daily?

11304. theDiva - 8/31/2001 11:28:00 AM

I'm on a nursing mother's regimen. I take my prenatals (basic multivitamin with extra folate and calcium and a couple of other things) and 6 caps of blessed thistle. I also drink a tea made from fenugreek, fennel, and a few other herbs.

11305. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 11:42:56 AM

Diva, beware of calcium in that you can only absorb about 600 mgs at a time, yet even a non-nursing woman needs about 1200 per day. So I take calcium in the a.m. and p.m. both. For p.m. I take Viactiv which is a wonderful 20 cal. square of delicious chocolate-like substance laced with calcium and vit. d which helps speed calcium absorption.

11306. theDiva - 8/31/2001 11:47:13 AM

Dolly

I've had those Viactive, they aren't bad. I'm not sure how much exactly is in the vitamin, but I get lots of calcium in my diet apart from that. My mother drilled, and I mean DRILLED, the importance of a balanced diet into my head.

Then she became a grandmother, and fed Gracie Reese's Peanut Butter Puffs cereal with heavy cream.

Parents.

11307. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 11:51:24 AM

I take a multivitamin without minerals -- only because with my history of thyroid disease I'm supposed to avoid iodine, and all multis with minerals seem to contain iodine. I also take a calcium with vit. d, selenium, b6, b12, & magnesium.

Hubby takes a multivit without iron in that some studies show that people who donate blood are at lower risk of heart attack and women who menstruate are also at lower risk. Seems iron works to make the blood stickier. Still a theory, but makes some sense in that that may be why women's heart disease rises after the change, why men have higher rates of heart disease at an earlier age, and why vegetarians seem to live longer. Studies are starting to reveal the hormone replacement therapy (HRT) is not the heart-disease protection once thought which is also consistent with the iron thing as HRT does not recreate periods in women.

11308. ronski - 8/31/2001 11:51:24 AM

One to two Centrums a day (which has lutein which is essential for the eyes: yellow corn is good to eat for that); no extra vitamin C, too acidic for the tummy; no extra selenium, but that is in Centrum (it may protect against prostate cancer, as E may also); some extra E occasionally; the Omega 3 capsules, which contain added E; saw palmetto, being a gentleman of a certain age; the grape seed extract; 3 to 4 glucosamine tablets (a pro skier I know some years younger than I was told he has the knees of an 80-year-old man, but mine are in much better shape; the glucosamine helps a surgically repaired ankle and a football injury to a hip); extra B complex with folic acid (it lowers homocysteine, high levels of which are linked to arteriosclerosis); Co-enzyme Q 10, which improves heart muscle function; occasionally extra zinc, which protects against colds and also may help with prostate problems; and that's about it.

11309. ronski - 8/31/2001 11:53:02 AM

Oh, and extra potassium (I have a blood pressure problem, sodium-dependent variety), and extra magnesium, which is good for blood pressure and essential for heart function.

11310. glendajean - 8/31/2001 11:53:37 AM

Ronski -- that sounds expensive. Do you buy your vitamins in bulk?

11311. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 11:54:30 AM

I was taking one glucosamine a day and it didn't help me much...but maybe I wasn't taking enough. But I'm also aware of the risk of it triggering diabetes and I have a strong family history: grandmother, brother, father. So I'm laying off it for now.

11312. ronski - 8/31/2001 11:54:32 AM

Yes. The boyfriend goes to CostMo'.

11313. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 11:55:42 AM

I buy vit at walmart as they seem to have the best prices in our area. But the vitamin I can only get through the -- gulp -- AARP pharmacy!

11314. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 11:56:45 AM

ronski, isn't lutein also found in tomato sauce and other cooked tomato products? I've also heard that zinc is helpful for preventing cataracts.

11315. Jenerator - 8/31/2001 11:57:58 AM

Vitamin World is pretty cheap, too.

11316. glendajean - 8/31/2001 12:00:19 PM

Hmm...what is glucosamine? 3 a day is ok? And what kind of diabetes does it trigger? Type II? or the other kind?

11317. ronski - 8/31/2001 12:02:48 PM

I believe lutein is found in yellow, orange and red fruits and vegetables. Tomatoes also have lycopene, which may protect against prostate cancer.

One thing found recently is that beta-carotene (carrots and other orange foods) does not protect against lung cancer as first thought. In smokers, it actually increases the risk, due to a certain enzyme.

But the anti-oxidants found in apples (mainly in the skins) is showing good signs of protecting lung function.

11318. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 12:03:11 PM

I take heaps of things...multi minus iron; E w/selenium; Omega 3s; flaxseed oil; lecithin; garlic oil; grapeseed; CoQ 10; glucosimine/chondroitin; extra C; extra B; gelatin caps; alfalfa; kelp; spirulina; calcium tabs; Viactive chews at night; Vit D; boron, bioyin, folic acid; herbal mix for knees; fenugeek; fiber tablets; oat bran; ginger.

I also drink a seving of soy protein every morning.

And yes, it is expensive and I buy in bulk and it still beats going to the doctor and taking perscription drugs.

11319. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 12:13:48 PM

I buy my stuff from Puritans Pride and vitacost..PurPri has a big "buy 1 get 2 free" sale once a year and they always have "buy 1 get 1 free".

Oh, I also take green tea extract and ginseng; ginkgo biloba; pau d'arco; and gotu kola.

11320. glendajean - 8/31/2001 12:17:30 PM

Lord, I would have to up my ritalin dosage to keep track of all that.

11321. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 12:25:54 PM

I have an excellent system of laying them all out in containers for a twice a day usage...I do it in two week increments and it takes about 40 minutes to organize it all.

I keep them in four seven day pillboxes and it works great.

11322. ronski - 8/31/2001 1:10:27 PM

Judith,

What? No turmeric compounds?

At least I hope you eat a lot of curries.

11323. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 1:14:41 PM

No, I don't...but I take silymarin each day to purify the liver.

11324. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 1:26:44 PM

J@H, What's spirulina? That's a new one on me.

11325. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 1:29:22 PM

From Boston Univ School of Med:
"People with diabetes, or a diabetic tendency, or with a strong family history of adult-onset diabetes, should use glucosamine with caution as there are theoretical reasons to suspect that this compound may increase insulin resistance. This could lead to diabetes in a predisposed individual, or interfere with diabetic control in someone who already has diabetes. Note that this has not been observed in any of the clinical studies of glucosamine to date."

11326. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 1:29:36 PM

Thoughtful:

From the Puritan Pride site:

A one-celled blue-green algae, Spirulina is cultivated in man made ponds, where growth can occur under optimal conditions. Spirulina reportedly provides more protein and B-12 than beef and more calcium than milk! Spirulina's high quality 65% protein is thoroughly assimilated without the worry of cholesterol and fat that other protein sources may provide. Available in powder & (500 mg.) tablets.

11327. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 1:31:59 PM

Interesting. Thanks.

11328. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 2:19:05 PM

I've started this diet that is supposed to super charge your metabolism. It makes a lot of sense because it involves food from every group and lots of veggies and fruit. No oils, no sugars for the time you're on it and the weight loss portion only lasts 4 weeks.

I feel very healthy on it...much lettuce and raw veggies and low fat meats.

The only problem is, and it's not really a problem but something I will miss dreadfully, no wine.:-( Oh well, if I can withstand watching Keoni sit there and eat chocolate cake in front of me, I can forgo wine for a month.

11329. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 2:25:24 PM

Gardeners:

I intend to plant a rambling rose that will climb into a 70 or 80' maple tree. The instructions state that it should be planted well back from the tree. What does this mean?

11330. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 2:28:41 PM

I'll bet it means far enough back that the roots won't sap strength from the tree....but I'm no gardener. I just play one once a month at meetings.

11331. ronski - 8/31/2001 2:30:18 PM

Uzmakk,

They say that because you do not want the roots of the tree competing for moisture and nutrients with the roots of the rose. Also, it is generally advised to plant the really big climbers between the tree and the direction of the prevailing wind, which in your area would be from the northwest, so that the breezes help sweep the rose branches up into the tree for support. It's hard to say how far the rose should be from the tree. You'll probably find the right place when you find the soil more easily tillable. Right next to the tree it will be rootbound and compacted.

11332. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 2:30:37 PM

The tree has plenty of strength, its the rose you have to worry about.

11333. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 2:31:10 PM

So I was sort of right?

11334. ronski - 8/31/2001 2:31:19 PM

I may try that silymarin stuff. My liver has had a bit of a workout lately.

11335. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 2:31:51 PM

Albeit dyslexic about whose strength needed protecting?

11336. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 2:32:39 PM

Quite right, Ronski. I think that a good patch between two large roots will be adequate.

11337. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 2:32:48 PM

ronski:

Go easy with it at first; you can pay for taking too much.

11338. ronski - 8/31/2001 2:33:24 PM

Yes. It is the rose that needs the support, not the tree.

Although gigantic climbers (available in some catalogs, and grown in formal gardens in England) that go up to 40 or 50 feet have been known to take down trees in rare circumstances.

11339. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 2:37:53 PM

I have thought about taking this maple down completely because it threatens my workshop, but I think I will call the tree peolple back and see about having one giant bough removed (which is actually the threat).

11340. theDiva - 8/31/2001 2:43:32 PM

While we are on the subject of trees....I have a question/problem.

I think my ornamental cherry may be dying. The tree is probably about 20 years old and is very, very large.

Back in May, our main sewer line backed up into the basement (oh what fun)...luckily we caught it right away and the Roto Rooter man was able to clean things out. Problem was, he said he thought a tree root was causing the problem.

Well, the tree chugged along beautifully all summer, but about three weeks ago the leaves started turning yellow and falling off. One or two more good rainstorms and the thing will be bare. However, the branches are still quite supple.

I'm thinking the root sustained damage during the clearing of the line. I wonder though, whether it can still survive. You think maybe?

11341. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 2:45:19 PM

See what happens in the Spring.

11342. theDiva - 8/31/2001 2:48:23 PM

Well, that's what I was thinking.

11343. Erinys - 8/31/2001 2:49:43 PM

Call the county extension office, see if other cherry trees in your area are having problems this year?

11344. theDiva - 8/31/2001 2:54:35 PM

No, they're not....my entire subdivision is planted with cherry trees; on my block alone there are thirty! And they're all in the best of health. SOB!

11345. theDiva - 8/31/2001 2:55:02 PM

But I think I will call the extension service anyway, Erinys. Thanks for the tip.

11346. Erinys - 8/31/2001 2:57:37 PM

Oh dear. Yes, wait until spring.

11347. theDiva - 8/31/2001 3:00:55 PM

man, I am so bummed. I LOVE that tree. It shades the front of the house and the yard, it makes my bedroom feel like a treehouse, when it blooms in April it's gorgeous, it rains lovely pale pink petals all over the neighborhood....

SOB!

11348. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 3:01:14 PM

Diva:

Let us assume that there was some root damage done when they cleared your pipes. Likely a minor set back. See what happens in the Spring.

11349. theDiva - 8/31/2001 3:02:56 PM

Well, the entire tree couldn't die from having one root damaged, I think. I hope youse are right.

11350. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 3:05:41 PM

Sure, Diva, its like your tree got a skinned knee.
Next year it will be scab free.

11351. theDiva - 8/31/2001 3:08:48 PM

Oh, Uz, you always make me feel better. Now I know I am not a TREE KILLING SCOFFLAW.

11352. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 3:10:50 PM

Are you going to visit me next time you come up to visit your mama?

11353. theDiva - 8/31/2001 3:12:21 PM

you know, that ain't a bad idea. It depends on how long a trip we are taking. I pass by you on I-83, right?

11354. Shannon - 8/31/2001 3:22:14 PM

I just bought the coolest trellis. It was marked down from $399 to $39.

11355. theDiva - 8/31/2001 3:23:16 PM

Man

11356. glendajean - 8/31/2001 4:00:59 PM

Maples, btw, are one of the more sensitive trees to have compaction and/or digging around their root system. That is why they don't do as well in tree boxes and in places where there is a lot of activity around their root system (read urban areas). They start a slow decline after a while. So be careful when you start digging to plant your climber.

The other thing about Maples (and I read this somewhere) is that it is best to cut limbs during winter when the tree is dormant. Cutting in other seasons may allow the sap to run. Anybody else hear that?

Shannon, I am jealous about your trellis. Congrats on a great buy.

Diva, ornamental trees often don't live a long time. Certain cherries and pears only live 20-30 years. I am hoping that it is just a reaction (as was mentioned above) that will survive next year.

11357. glendajean - 8/31/2001 4:03:53 PM

Speaking of ornamentals --- I have a crabapple in my backyard that has some kind of fungus or bad thing over about a third of it.

How much can one get away with cutting back a crab apple? Are they used to major pruning? Or is that a fast way to kill it?

Any advice?

11358. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 4:06:46 PM

I 81, Diva. I'm really here.

11359. theDiva - 8/31/2001 4:10:50 PM

Glenda

please send some good gardening juju my way. Or rather, my tree's way.

Uz

Right, 81. Is that the one that goes through Scranton and onto Upstate NY?

11360. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 4:13:04 PM

That's it, Diva. Where's your mama? Honesdael.?

11361. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 4:13:29 PM

glendaj, we don't cut maples in the feb/mar timeframe because the sap is running in our area anyway....not because we're so worried about the tree, but because it makes a terrible mess when you're handling the wood. Though I suppose it makes sense to cut it when it's dormant.

Also, don't know about crab apples especially except that we do fairly major pruning (with a chain saw) on all of our apple trees because we simply don't keep up with them as we should. We've not ever had a problem. I've seen trees split off major sections in storms and such and still survive. But I would check to see first if there's something that can be done for the fungus without the major prune anyway.

11362. theDiva - 8/31/2001 4:14:26 PM

Uz

Yes, outside Honesdale towards the NY side.

11363. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 4:18:15 PM

Hubby went nuts several decades ago and planted about 30 semi-dwarf apple trees. He used to prune and spray etc. and family made applesauce and apple cider and hard cider and such. But no more. The trees have since overgrown and the apples are poor without spraying and what's left are rapidly eaten by the squirrels and deer.

What I learned about apple tree pruning....cut off everything growing straight up, straight down, crossing or parallel underneath to another branch. Cut just before a bud that isn't pointing north...don't leave too much above the bud or will become a dead stub...don't cut too close to the bud or you will harm it.

11364. glendajean - 8/31/2001 4:24:29 PM

Thoughtful -- thanks. The bad part is sort of separate from the rest and the tree would look fine without it. Somebody in the neighborhood said it was some kind of low-grade thing that needs spraying, but unfortunatley, it is in the upper part of one side. It looked worse last year than this year, but I am a bit itching to cut it out.

I love fresh apples, but would hate to have to do all that spraying. I heard that they are trying to make a grape that won't need spraying. Of course, it will probably taste like styrofoam.

11365. ycmeehan - 8/31/2001 4:56:45 PM

Our Vitamins

Check them out. We both are doing very well on them.

11366. uzmakk - 8/31/2001 4:59:17 PM

You know, Diva, I think I am going to write a poem in an attempt to attract dusty up here for a bicycle ride.

11367. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 4:59:27 PM

YC!!

11368. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 5:01:32 PM

Okay, that is crazy...I hit the space bar and it posted..

YC:

I have bookmarked that site afyer reading what was in the "bone food"...it has all the things I'm taking. In one tablet...ha!

Thanks for the link. How're you doing?

11369. ycmeehan - 8/31/2001 5:17:05 PM

Judith,
I just signed a contract this morning. I had sworn that I would not teach this year but then this school called me and I just fell in love with everybody, so there I am, happy as a clam. The kids are terrific. How are you?
By the way, did I ever tell you that I used to own a health food store years ago before I became a stockbroker and later a teacher? Well, I learned quite a bit then in that store and that is why I will only take Megafood vitamins.

11370. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 5:23:20 PM

I checked out the locations on that site and saw that they are sold in a store I used to go to years ago...I think I'll go check them out next week.

I have tons of stuff stockpiled, though, so I may finish up with what I have and just begin replacing them as I run out with the Megafood ones. What are they referring to when they list "minis" on the price page? I couldn't locate any other info on the site that referred to minis.

11371. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2001 5:24:34 PM

Oh, and congratulations on the contract...glad you found some people you really like to work with!

11372. thoughtful - 8/31/2001 6:08:12 PM

glendaj, I got home with the heat of the workday off and remembered I owed you an answer on yoga.
Yes I was doing yoga regularly at work but the teacher is gone for the summer months, which is a good thing as I find a lot of the spinal twisting I was doing was upsetting my lower back...it's been getting better since I stopped.

I don't blame yoga for that per se, but the fact that I can't but pursue whatever I'm doing with more zest, stretch, zeal than I should. I know that if I took it easy I could do it, but I was going for the maximum stretch...not a good thing especially since I've had low-back problems over the years.

However, yoga offers an awful lot of good things...deep breathing, getting in touch with your body, balance, strength, flexibility, and since I was doing it in a darkened room at lunch time, it gave me a lot of relaxation.

I don't know what I'll do when classes start again soon. I'd like to go as I enjoyed it so much, but don't know if I can keep from overdoing. Interestingly, my back didn't bother me in class...it was only afterward. Go figure.

11373. Shannon - 8/31/2001 8:18:58 PM

Hubby was duly impressed with my trellis.

I need to start going to yoga again; I only went a few times over the summer. Thoughtful, my teacher is always really good about suggesting alternate poses for people who have bad backs or other limitations, or just generally reminding them to take it easy.

11374. arkymalarky - 8/31/2001 9:29:21 PM

Wonderful about the contract, YC!

11375. JudithAtHome - 9/1/2001 11:46:07 AM

We're going to the movies tomorrow, I think! To see Hedwig and the Angry Inch...I saw a clip from it this morning and decided it was the movie for us on this Labor Day weekend. Nothing like a transsexual musical to brighten a rainy afternoon!

11376. ronski - 9/3/2001 4:44:09 PM

Down to 49 degrees F. last night, the first time in the forties since late May or early June.

Acorns are getting ready to fall.

11377. Erinys - 9/3/2001 6:01:38 PM

thoughtful, our new neighbor just cut down 2 gorgeous apple trees, heavy with fruit. (sigh) I had the best of both worlds before, lots of yummy, fresh, apples, but none of the upkeep.

I staked up my sunflowers today. They must be 10 feet tall.

11378. JudithAtHome - 9/3/2001 6:34:11 PM

Okay, I must brag on myself...I've lost 4 pounds this past week and eaten very well in doing so. This is a diet my sister is on and it requires one to eat from each food group at 2 meals a day (breakfast is one protein serving and either fruit or grain product) and have one all protein day a week. I've eaten many more vegetables, fruit, and greens than I ever have and haven't felt deprived at all. Nor have I felt hungry.

I went on it because, since I started taking VIOXX for my knee, I have been unable to lose weight at all...the same 3 pounds would go, come back, go...a seesaw that was most discouraging, no matter what I would try. We'll see if this diet continues to help me lose...I want to get rid of 16 more pounds.

I feel very accomplished because I did this while Keoni had a huge piece of chocolate cake every night and today at the theatre, he ate a bag of popcorn while I sipped a diet Coke and ate a protein bar....

11379. arkymalarky - 9/3/2001 6:43:40 PM

That sounds great, Judith!

The humming birds have been very entertaining, sometimes six or seven dancing around a feeder at a time, like bees. But today I noticed two ruby-throats, one at each feeder, guarding them like pit bulls and not allowing the other birds to eat. So I did what my granddad used to do. I used the spray nozzle on the water hose and targeted the ruby throats from their lookout perches. I never got a drop of water on one I don't think, but it was back to dancing and sharing feeders after that.

11380. Absensia - 9/3/2001 6:56:32 PM

Judith,
Congratulations! I didn't know that about Vioxx. I'm taking it. If I email you at the small screen address, will you explain the diet in more depth?
I have some questions.

Today, a hawk showed up. He'd been sort of hanging around in the neighborhood, but today was sitting on the bird feeder.

11381. Absensia - 9/3/2001 6:58:09 PM

Oops, no email specified for you!

11382. JudithAtHome - 9/3/2001 7:08:13 PM

judithathome@lycos.com

11383. JudithAtHome - 9/3/2001 7:14:11 PM

Although when I clicked on my name in the TV thread, it worked...

??

11384. Absensia - 9/3/2001 7:23:25 PM

Thanks...my bad...for some reason, netscape wants to be my primary mail server, even though I have none listed there. So that announcement I saw was directed to me.

11385. Erinys - 9/3/2001 10:19:05 PM

Judith, good going! If you must diet, one that doesn't make you feel deprived sounds the way to go.

arky, that's funny about you policing the hummingbirds.

My fabulous project of sun-dried tomatoes went kerplooie since I got lazy one night and didn't bring them in, and it rained. They grew mold. Ick. I may try again, though. They were looking really lovely after 2 days.

11386. Webfeet - 9/3/2001 10:43:09 PM

yc-
felicitations on your new teaching post and thanks for the vitamin link. Im always iron deficient and apparently my son has some kind of problem absorbing iron--he's anemic again and we're kind of worried because he has been taking a supplement. Id like to order those megathings for myself but ifyou have any suggestions on what is suitable for toddlers (18 months) i'd like to hear it. Im a little worried by it.

11387. bubbaette - 9/4/2001 9:32:15 AM

The humming birds round cheer have moved on for the year -- haven't seen one in about 10 days.

I did see a bald eagle on Sunday while we were visiting at Big Brother Bob's place on the Chesapeake Bay. It was most impressive.

11388. uzmakk - 9/4/2001 10:26:09 AM

Gardeners:

I would like the names of a couple of low growing, highly fragrant tea or New English roses. Thank you, in advance.

11389. uzmakk - 9/4/2001 10:31:30 AM

I don't think I posted this on the Mote. I saw a couple of what must have been eagles this summer. My first sighting in 10 years. Very large brown birds. I was in the back yard looking across the valley, and two large shapes flash across the visible between my neighbors house and my own. "What was that!?" says I to myself without muttering a sounds and tear off toward the road. I reached the road, looked left just in time to see two huge brown shapes veer off into the woods.

11390. uzmakk - 9/4/2001 12:06:06 PM

Speaking of birds, whatever happened to CMBoyce? Surely he is floating around here under another moniker or something. He was such a worthwhile fellow.

11391. ronski - 9/4/2001 12:17:38 PM

We were watching hummers last night on the deck. The new young ones have been almost tame. Both of us have seen them stop in midflight and hover about 18 inches from our faces, just looking us over. I'm surprised they haven't left yet.

Uz,

It could have been eagles (I've never seen one in the wild), but is it possible they were our native vultures? They are very large, and quite common. They are dark brown, though, almost black.

11392. marjoribanks - 9/4/2001 12:18:51 PM

Yes, where is Boyce? I was thinking of him recently, capital correspondent that he is. I hope he is well and will return soon.

11393. uzmakk - 9/4/2001 1:18:56 PM

Hummers are still floating about. I recall that I wrote a poem about one on the Mote. It was pretty good, I thought. He winked at me.(In the poem, at least)

I know the vultures, Ronski. Definitely not them. Lighter brown. And I would say bigger.

11394. ronski - 9/4/2001 2:03:35 PM

Bald Eagles

11395. uzmakk - 9/4/2001 2:16:02 PM

I have assumed that they are golden eagles, ronski. No white tail feathers.

11396. glendajean - 9/4/2001 2:26:24 PM

Uzmakk -- "Gertrude Jekyll" and "Mary Rose" from David Austin English Roses are both fragrant.

Fed and watered and protected from black spot, they can get taller here than they do in England, but are easy to trim back. The Jekyll is extremely fragrant. Both of these are pink.

Other DAE's I've grown are Alexander Darby and Graham Thomas. They are lovely roses but not as fragrant.

11397. uzmakk - 9/4/2001 2:41:02 PM

Thanks, GJ. I recall seeing the Gertude Jekyll and pink will do fine as a color. I am already looking forward to spring. I am going to see if I can transplant a Graham Thomas that has been in the ground for about 7 or 8 years. What do you think my chances are?

11398. ronski - 9/4/2001 2:41:45 PM

The following site includes a map of the golden eagle's range, which includes Uzmakk-land (and Ronski-land):

Golden Eagle Stamps

11399. glendajean - 9/4/2001 2:46:32 PM

Uzmakk -- your chances are real good, particularly if you do it in cool weather. I've moved roses around. It helps to get as much of the dirt around the roots as possible, but it's usually not a problem.

BTW, I once read a criticism of the Jeckyll that it is not as attractive a plant as the others, and I suppose that is true. It shoots out tall, thorny canes. But it is very fragrant.

I will be buying some more English roses either this fall or next spring. I digging the beds for them now.

11400. ronski - 9/4/2001 2:46:54 PM

We have a Fair Bianca rose growing in a large cedar container on the deck (to protect it from deer). It is about to bloom again, with the buds coming in rather pinkish this time. We are hoping it survives the winter.

11401. Absensia - 9/4/2001 2:48:51 PM

We see Bald Eagles here...they are far and few between right here, but if you go north a bit,into the Skagit valley, you can see them frequently, especially when river rafting.

11402. uzmakk - 9/4/2001 2:52:53 PM

few and far between, Absentia. Pull up your socks.

11403. Rama - 9/4/2001 3:19:49 PM

Actually, they are getting to oddly common, given what big hunkin' birds they are.

It is really funny to see them walking around on the ground. They make a turkey look down-right elegant.

11404. thoughtful - 9/4/2001 3:27:03 PM

Congrats J@H on your weight loss. I know I miraculously dropped about 8 lbs. when I stopped taking Celebrex without changing my diet. And it has stayed off too. But watching someone eat chocolate cake? I could never do it...

11405. JudithAtHome - 9/4/2001 3:30:50 PM

Thoughtful:

Thanks...the popcorn at the movie bothered me more.

I think I may have found the way to eat that will override the VIOXX curse; about time!

11406. ycmeehan - 9/4/2001 4:12:44 PM

Thanks, Arky and Webfeet. I am enjoying the school.

Web,
I can't absorb iron either even the iron pills prescribed by my doctor but I can absorb the Blood Builder Vitamin & Mineral Formula without problems. I have never been deficient in iron since I started taking a pill twice a day. I don't have any suggestions for a toddler but your pediatrician certainly should have one more adequate if your son is still anemic taking an iron supplement. You will find if you check that this MegaFood company is very sound.

11407. thoughtful - 9/4/2001 4:36:57 PM

It is important to keep trying different brands of iron pills until one works...seems formulation plays an important role in whether one's body can use it. So one brand may work for one but not another.

11408. JudithAtHome - 9/4/2001 4:54:12 PM

I guess leeks might be too harsh for a baby but they have lots of iron...

11409. JudithAtHome - 9/4/2001 4:55:20 PM

...or at least that's what Kevin Kline told Meryl Streep in Sophies Choice.

11410. thoughtful - 9/4/2001 5:00:05 PM

I know my girlfriend used to mix molasses into plain yogurt as a way of getting iron and b vitamins.

VEGETARIAN SOURCES OF IRON

FOOD PORTION SIZE IRON (mg)
beet greens, cooked 1/2 cup 1.4
bulgur, cooked 1 cup 1.8
blackstrap molasses 1 Tablespoon 3.5
figs, dried 5 2.1
kidney beans, cooked 1 cup 5.2
lentils, cooked 1 cup 6.6
lima beans, cooked 1 cup 4.5
prune juice 8 ounces 3.0
spinach, cooked 1/2 cup 3.2
Swiss chard, cooked 1/2 cup 2.0

11411. Absensia - 9/4/2001 5:01:07 PM

uzmakk,
not here out in the west..here they are far and few...gotta use binocs so see them, they are so far. And, ain't got no socks on.

11412. thoughtful - 9/4/2001 5:02:09 PM

But beware as another web source I found warned of the danger of iron supplements in small children, so it definitely calls for MD input on that one.

11413. JudithAtHome - 9/4/2001 5:02:29 PM

Lentils make me gag.

11414. thoughtful - 9/4/2001 5:03:58 PM

Saw several hawks hanging out on the highway on our drive back from PA this weekend....unfortunately one was a dead mass of feathers in the driving lane. Must be good pickings for them though, the miles of open grass along the highways, with the occasional tree to be used for a perch.

11415. Absensia - 9/4/2001 5:04:04 PM

Me too, as well as a lot of stuff on that list.

11416. thoughtful - 9/4/2001 5:09:33 PM

Also from this web site, eating Vit C rich foods with the iron will help absorption.

11417. uzmakk - 9/4/2001 5:53:15 PM

11411Absentia:

You are damn lucky I am not going to pull my Calgal impersonation on you. Far and few will have to do.(even though it is a bit of creative back pedalling)

11418. Absensia - 9/4/2001 7:49:01 PM

Awww, thanks, Uzzie!

11419. Webfeet - 9/5/2001 9:04:32 AM

thanks gals, for all your helpful tips.

Im a little relieved today. We receieved the results of his blood test and he is in the normal range once again, only slightly anemic, on the low end of the range for RBC's and hemotocriten. Apparently last week's sample was insufficient (it was difficult for the nurse to find a vein and, consequently, not enough blood was taken) and it frighteningly showed that he was quite anemic after having taken the iron supplement for 3 months!

I have actually been a basket case for the last two weeks, yesterday I had one of my psychotic 'meat' episodes where I started to sob as I was cutting meat, thinking that it was a vicious, cruel world where in order to nourish my son, a cow must die, etc./ I think I was sobbing out of relief, actually.

CLement is still slightly anemic, however, because he is growing at a rapid rate and requires greater iron intake. Pediatrician just recommended ferinol. That and an iron-enriched diet ---nobody should go through the obsessive plannings of his diet that we do---should do it.

11420. Webfeet - 9/5/2001 9:06:34 AM

THoughtful,

Your Polish rival was just frying okra with Bryant Gumbel on the early show.

I didn't have time to respond to your last post on MS, but after reading it, I think Martha should hire you. You're a girl after her own heart! Lest that be misinterpreted somehow, that is a compliment.

11421. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 10:14:45 AM

Is anyone using Benecol, that fake margarine from Canada that allegedly reduces cholesterol? I don't have a problem with cholesterol but got a little tub of Benecol to use on my rare pieces of toast with this diet...used it for the first time this morning and it's no butter but it's okay.

11422. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 10:27:56 AM

Dear Webbie, I wouldn't work for that CPB in a million years...and I certainly would never consider having her work for ME! Glad you clarified that that last remark was meant to be a compliment or it would never have been taken as such.

J@H, Don't take and never tried Benecol....our cholesterol is just fine with diligence eating a low fat diet and regular exercise. In fact, hubby and I are so used to low fat foods that a high fat breakfast splurge the other day made us most uncomfortable for the rest of the day. The system is no longer used to such things.

11423. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 10:30:11 AM

Hubby and I stopped in Scranton over the weekend specifically to seek out and see for ourselves whether there was anything to this Krispy Kreme hype. We determined there is not. They tasted just like a sweeter, smaller version of a Dunkin' Donut and certainly nothing to justify a price/earnings ratio of 3700!

In other words (or should this be in finance thread) if you own krispy kreme stock, SELL!

11424. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 10:34:57 AM

Thoughtful:

I'm used to low fat, too...we cook with olive oil, however. But we don't eat bacon or other fatty meat or fry anything and I use lemon and balsamic dressing on my salad rather than fatty dressings. I know the feeling of splurging and its aftermath all too well.

I'm using this stuff now during the diet only...and I only have toast maybe twice a week on it so it's no biggie. But if anyone is considering using it, it tastes okay...it's expensive compared to other margarines and butter, though.

11425. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 11:36:09 AM

More power to you kiddo. With all my aches and pains, the latest test showing I'm healthy as a horse still, I've wondered about playing around with diet, eliminating foods that are thought to cause problems like I have, but one biggie is eliminating wheat products, and I am so addicted to carbos and wheat products that I just don't think I have what it takes to try something like that even for a month. I guess I just don't hurt enough yet, but that may change.

11426. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 11:44:22 AM

After only a week eating this way, I feel great. Later in the plan, you get to slowly add more carbs, monitoring your weight so if it starts to creep up, you cut back a bit and try another approach.

I long ago cut out pasta and excessive amounts of bread and stuff so this isn't so tough for me now. I love them too much...they are the main reason for my weight gain after the VIOXX.

11427. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 12:13:39 PM

Oh my, did I even score big Monday when I went into that local coffee house and bought 4 ozs of Lapsong Souchong tea...just brewed a cup and it is exquisite.

11428. Jenerator - 9/5/2001 2:29:34 PM

How's oatmeal for iron intake? I eat it and broccoli almost everyday. (okay, and steak too)

11429. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 3:06:13 PM

Iron in oatmeal...if it's fortified. You could add more by cooking it up in an iron pan.

11430. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 3:07:31 PM

oatmeal unfortified, 1.5 mg in a cup
broccoli .7 in 1/2 cup cooked.

11431. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 3:08:20 PM

see < a href="http://www.dialadietitian.org/resources/handouts/fe-food.html" target="new">here.

11432. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 3:09:23 PM

ooops
See here.

11433. Jenerator - 9/5/2001 4:15:57 PM

I've been trying to have more vegetables in my diet but it's hard when your married to someone who prefers meat to anything else.

Everytime I buy veggies, half of them go bad, I can't eat them quickly enough. And I'm a wimp, I like veggies with butter, or sauce or seasoning. Take cauliflower for example. I *hate* it raw, but steam it and put some butter on it and I like it.

I like sugar snap peas, carrots, and sweat potatoes plain, but virtually everything else I have to have some sort of seasoning.

11434. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 4:25:12 PM

I love raw veggies...I'm even eating my asparagus raw these days.

11435. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 4:26:58 PM

Jen, here are some suggestions.
Don't buy fresh..buy frozen. With bags of frozen veggies you can pour out just what you need and keep the rest. May be less nutrition then fresh, but better than none.

Try the mixed veggies. I really like the broccoli, cauliflower, and carrots. For some reason the combos taste better.

We use butter buds for some "butter" flavor without the fat. But we also use other spices and flavorings to add taste without fat such as tarragon on squash, mace on carrots, lemon juice on broccoli, toasted sesame seeds on spinach. Or crumble up some fat free seasoned croutons for a crunchy taste. You can also make a fat free "cream" sauce out of evaporated skim milk and flour to which you can add whatever seasonings you like. For a tart flavor, try plain yogurt with chopped up dill. Yum.

11436. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 4:29:04 PM

Raw veggies, salads and such are a wonderful way to add veggies to the diet. I also love soups. I make my own when I have time, but I will also buy canned soups...not the plain old campbells where chicken means the chicken walked by the soup while it was in the pot...but the thicker, richer ones that have lots of veggies in them.

11437. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 4:31:11 PM

Hubby and I will make an appetizer out of the baby carrots you can buy in the store and celery sticks using a fat free dressing like ranch for a dip.

11438. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 4:36:30 PM

You can also use arrowroot to thicken fat free condensed milk and then season it.

11439. PelleNilsson - 9/5/2001 4:39:03 PM

Reading Americans on "what is good for you" can be very boring.

Now, we know that red wine is good for you, garlic is good for you, aspirin is good for you. Crush two garlic cloves together with two aspirins. Transfer to a good-sized glass. Top up with red wine. There you have the perfect health potion.

11440. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 4:51:02 PM

Well, change the subject if you're bored...I have to admit, pickled herring isn't exactly mesmerizing reading, either, Mr. Bored.:-)

11441. Jenerator - 9/5/2001 4:57:36 PM

I like your sauce suggestion, Thoughtful.

11442. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 5:10:06 PM

No, no, Jen. You misunderstood....I didn't suggest you get sauced! That was Pelle!

}:-)

11443. thoughtful - 9/5/2001 5:10:40 PM

And Jen, sometime pop over into health and fill us in on how Nen is doing...I've been wondering.

11444. PelleNilsson - 9/5/2001 5:31:56 PM

Judith

I thought I did. Or at least tried to.

11445. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 5:33:49 PM

Okay, how many voles did you see while at the cabin?

11446. JudithAtHome - 9/5/2001 7:19:13 PM

The battery just died on my little Eureka Boss Lite touchup vac...:-(

11447. Webfeet - 9/5/2001 8:00:00 PM

What is more indulgent and soul-satisfying than putting the baby to bed, taking a hot shower with lait de figue, then ordering books online while sipping brandy?

This is as good as it gets for me.

11448. Webfeet - 9/5/2001 8:03:12 PM

Judith, what is Lapson Souchong tea? What is that like?

11449. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2001 7:35:01 AM

Webbie:

It is very dark and has a definite smokey flavor; sort of smokey/tarry...hefty tea, if you will.

11450. uzmakk - 9/6/2001 8:32:22 AM

Best drunk well sweetened and creamed.

11451. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2001 8:42:01 AM

Yuck....no. Best drunk straight.

11452. thoughtful - 9/6/2001 10:44:16 AM

We are going through hell...one that truly tests our sanity and our marriage.

We are looking into getting the oil tank pulled out of the ground and put in the house....anyone else have experience with this particular form of hell?

11453. bubbaette - 9/6/2001 11:34:56 AM

Thoughtful

We had an abandoned oil tank dug up from the back yard last winter, but it had been replaced by an above-ground tank some years ago and then we installed an electric heat pump. The cost was covered by our state Department of Environmental Quality -- a tax levied on every gallon of heating oil sold.

I was glad to have it done, though it created a huge mess in the side and back yards. They did the work on a cold rainy day and the digging equipment and dump trucks to haul out the contaminated soil and put in fill left 8 inch ruts and a sea of mud.

But that was better than my neighbor's experience who only found out about the tank in his back yard after a period of heavy rains when it backed up and overflowed, contaminating both his and his neighbors' yard.

In order to keep the dogs from tracking in mudd all winter long (and to be able to traverse the back yard) I put down about 3 bales of staw and then we re-seeded in the spring.

11454. thoughtful - 9/6/2001 12:02:33 PM

Bbbtt, Fortunately I'm 99 44/100% sure we have no contamination as the tank is only about 10-12 years old. Unfortunately we have a wondeful fingerleaf maple tree on top that was expensive and I don't know if it will move well....any advice would be most appreciated.

Also, our house is brick & cement block and arguments abound about locating the tank (basement is finished) locating vent pipes (24", 30" or 36" depending on who you talk to including town building dept which says fire marshall requires it and fire marshall who says town building dept requires it!) and how much damage will be done to the building with vent and filler pipes.

11455. thoughtful - 9/6/2001 12:03:30 PM

er..those measurements are from a window...and it's not clear whether those measures are horizontal or diagonal or what.

11456. thoughtful - 9/6/2001 12:04:26 PM

I hate this. Refuse to talk to hubby about it anymore and am telling him to handle it...but of course I'll still get involved as I'm such a control freak. But I hate this!

11457. bubbaette - 9/6/2001 12:13:17 PM

Thoughtful

Seems to me that with the trouble and expense of moving the tank, you could change over to an electric heat pump and have cleaner heat and lower bills. (Sure was glad we made the change last summer -- our neighbor stayed with oil and paid about $1,200 to heat last year Nov. through March while we paid about $500.

11458. thoughtful - 9/6/2001 1:03:30 PM

They don't work well in the northeast, unfortunately. And gas prices shot up so high that that's an unlikely alternative, so oil it is for us. We already supplement our heat with a wood stove which saves a lot of $$.

11459. thoughtful - 9/6/2001 1:09:52 PM

Pelle, if you thought the above was dull, wait til you see this: Next week is national 5-a-day week. Try to eat at least 5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day!

11460. bubbaette - 9/6/2001 1:39:44 PM

Thoughtful

It might still be worth checking into. I was a bit leery about going with a heat pump because I'd heard that they blow cold air. Not only does it not blow cold air, but it has a power assist for really really cold days when it will run a heat strip to boost the heat exchangers.

Of course, this is central Virginia and we probably only got about 10 really cold days when the boosters cut on.

11461. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2001 1:46:31 PM

Try to eat at least 5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day!

This sounds almost impossible to me...I am doing good getting 2-3 servings of fruit a day and 4 servings of veggies...two of which are two cups of salad each.

This is why I'm so skeptical when people make the claim that Americans can get all their vitamins from diet alone.

11462. thoughtful - 9/6/2001 1:48:10 PM

Yeah, the power assist which is electric heat is incredibly expensive and in this area we get lots of cold days and for a lot longer than you do. So I doubt the savings would be anywhere near as substantial as yours. Further, this is in our current house which we hope to be in for only a year or two more. So we're not looking to make an investment in anything like a new heating system...we just installed a new furnace 3 years ago. We only want to make the house sellable, and unfortunately in our area that means no in-ground tanks.

We've got another firm coming to look the situation over tomorrow, so we'll know more then.

11463. bubbaette - 9/6/2001 1:48:56 PM

You're already exceeding the recommendations, then, Judith. It's 5 servings of fruit and veggies, meaning that 2 fruits and 3 veggies fill the bill.

11464. thoughtful - 9/6/2001 1:49:10 PM

And, in case our official gardening mavens missed it, our tank is under a finger-leaf maple and I'm open to any and all advice about how to safely move that plant temporarily...it stands about 5' high.

11465. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2001 1:50:05 PM

I guess I'm actually getting six servings of veggies a day, huh?

Duh....

11466. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2001 1:51:10 PM

X post with Bubbaette who states the obvious much more lucidly that I...

11467. bubbaette - 9/6/2001 1:53:36 PM

Thoughtful

Do you have access to a pick up truck and an engine hoist?

We moved a six foot azalea by digging up the root ball, using a chain and and engine hoist placed in the bed of a pick-up to jack up the plant, and then backing the bush into its new location.

But I don't know much about maples. As a rule of thumb, I think you need to be prepared to do some pruning to the tree if you can't get all the rootball.

11468. rubberducky - 9/6/2001 1:59:01 PM

so - this is probably a dumb question, but i know little about cooking....

if i want to (and i do) steam some carrots, broccoli, and cauliflower, what's teh best way? just put 'em in a pot with water and boil for a few minutes? remember - i have the barest of kitchen apparatuses, so keep the answer simple!

11469. judithathome - 9/10/2001 1:19:24 PM

Steaming is very different from boiling; you need some sort of rack to place in the top of a pot with about 1/3 water in the bottoof the pot. Put the veggies on the rack and put the lid on it, let the water come to a boil and Viola! in a few minutes, you have steamed veggies.

If you don't have a French steamer (little fold up apparatus which looks like a round fan) or a double boiler with a steamer pot on top, you CAN take heavy duty foil and make a little insert with it that fits inside the pan and punch holes in it and it will work.

11470. CalGal - 9/10/2001 1:24:39 PM

I agree with all of Judith's recommendations, but if you need it even simpler than that, I just put a tiny bit of water in the pan and keep it on low, covering it. It's not the same as steaming, but it's fairly easy and the veggies don't overcook.

11471. rubberducky - 9/10/2001 1:48:38 PM

thanks, J@H, but that is just the sort of kitchen apparatus i don't have!

CG - that's what i usually do. glad to see i'm no the only one!

11472. glendajean - 9/10/2001 2:16:23 PM

RD -- the steamer basket that Judith describes can be bought at most large grocery stores, Targets, Walmarts, or any kitchen store for about $6.

I have two of them and use them for broccoli, asparagus, new potatoes, and squash.

11473. CalGal - 9/10/2001 2:27:01 PM

I have recently taken to using the steamer basket on my largest cooking pot--Ducky, if you don't have one, it's a good investment. Just a big pot that is useful for all sorts of reasons; it will also come with a steamer basket and a double boiler pan.

11474. glendajean - 9/12/2001 2:22:53 AM

Yesterday was a mockingly beautiful day -- blue sky, cool breezes, and a late summer bloom of flowers, fall plants like asters and autumn clematis, and a deep green among trees and grasses, the result of several days of heavy rain.

As the drum of reporting on the television brought more news of destruction, I found I had to take the dog for another walk. It was eeriely quiet here.

11475. thoughtful - 9/12/2001 8:34:27 AM

gj, yes eerily quiet, especially the skies...not a plane in sight.

We're heading to the Big E today after I see the dentist to get a broken tooth fixed...and here I was eating melba rounds because they're good for me!

11476. judithathome - 9/12/2001 9:29:27 AM

Our skies had at least 3 planes from the base flying around all day...Keoni said it was because of an Air Alert. They were protecting the base and Lockheed from attack by planes.

Deadly serious stuff.

11477. judithathome - 9/14/2001 5:21:02 PM

Does anyone want to talk about their garden or their pet or anything besides killing?

11478. Absensia - 9/14/2001 5:22:25 PM

I do, I do....not sure what comes to mind, but let's just talk.

11479. judithathome - 9/14/2001 5:29:42 PM

I made what I call a Reuben Salad today for lunch...mixed greens with cold sauerkraut and turkey salami...it was superb!

11480. glendajean - 9/14/2001 6:45:17 PM

I've been so depressed that I haven't thought much about gardening.

Maybe this weekend.

My tomatoes are abundant and tasty. Too bad the evening temps are dipping heavily.

11481. Cellar Door - 9/14/2001 6:50:54 PM

I've been reprinting "The Wind in the Willows" in the "Attack On America" thread, glendajean.

11482. judithathome - 9/14/2001 6:52:11 PM

Cellar:

And it's the nicest stuff there, too.

11483. arkymalarky - 9/14/2001 9:18:47 PM

Ronski,

If you catch this, will you drop me a line at amalarky@yahoo.com?

11484. arkymalarky - 9/14/2001 9:21:21 PM

Diva-the-wienie-dog (to distinguish from our own wonderful MoteDiva, considering what I'm about to post) gets all excited when we get the fly swatter. She absolutely loves to eat flies. A horsefly got in yesterday morning and was in the light over the dining table when I managed to get it, and she could hardly contain herself waiting for it to fall on the floor so she could gulp it down.

Why do I think this is so adorable?

11485. Absensia - 9/14/2001 9:25:46 PM

Judith,
Sorry I disappeared from our earlier conversation above...a nap overcame me.

Arky, darned if I know. Maybe because it saves on food????

11486. judithathome - 9/16/2001 4:04:27 PM

Abs...understandable; that's been happening to me a lot lately.

Keoni is up on the roof patching a leak; as is usual with him, it has escalated into a major chore with many trips to the shrine of Home Depot and much tithing of money there.

I'm going to bake a turkey breast later so we can eat well and watch The Sopranos and Band of Brothers later this evening.

11487. Al D - 9/16/2001 4:18:16 PM

Could Keoni use some palm fronds or tin for that roof patch? Will you be digging an imu?

11488. judithathome - 9/16/2001 4:32:53 PM

Ha! He wishes!

11489. glendajean - 9/17/2001 10:09:35 AM

I bought 3 small sedums (excellent for overhang plantings along paths and at the edges of beds) and 3 perennial dianthus (with their gray, spikey foilage) for $2 each at Lowes this weekend. They were clearing out perennials and all of these plants were healthy, showing no stress from lack of watering or sunlight.

Last week, I bought 8 hardy begonias, a semi-shade plant that blooms in late summer, excellent to plant as a side companion ot Japanese anemones (that also bloom this time of year).

I continue to dig up beds. I also purchased lots of mulch to work into these new beds. I be adding compost and manure, too. Major planting will be next spring.

As a shake our fists at the bastards gesture, my neighbors joined us Saturday night in our backyard for smoked brisket. We started cooking them at 6:30 am and they were ready by 7:30 pm.

Others brought side dishes. In addition to the brisket (with a spice rub the night before and hourly moppings during the cooking), we made a country tart or gallette (sp?) -- fresh peaches and blueberries baked in dough that is flapped over the fruit.

11490. bubbaette - 9/17/2001 10:35:24 AM

My sweetie pie helped out in the garden this weekend -- taking out most of the tomatos and the bell and habanero peppers. He's off work today and is going to plow up the space so I can put in spinach, mustard and kale. Bless his heart.

Still left in the garden are two tomato plants, 12 jalapeno plants, 35 strawberry plants, two double rows of english peas and a row of green beans. The jalapenos are so loaded with peppers that they're bowing. I'm waiting for them to turn red so I can try out a recipe for pepper jelly.

Most of my flowers in my two front beds have powder mildew badly. I've sprayed twice with a fungicide, but think I'll just go in and uproot them next weekend.

11491. ScottLoar - 9/17/2001 10:42:11 AM

Message # 11481: Ha! I had asked that of you shortly after reading the first several posts (I haven't checked on this thread in weeks). I recognized the lines about Mole, and asked if were not from Wind in the Willows.

11492. judithathome - 9/17/2001 10:47:50 AM

Scott:

Wasn't it a refreshing respite when it was posted, though?

11493. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2001 12:41:25 PM

A grayish day draws to an end.
The birches are slowly turning yellow.
Melancholy is everywhere.
Maybe I should pour a G&T.

11494. Jenerator - 9/17/2001 5:59:43 PM

I planted some Lantanna (sp?) in the front yard yesterday and it bloomed for me already!

11495. glendajean - 9/17/2001 6:38:24 PM

Jen -- is it yellow or purple? Or the orange and yellow mix? In Central Texas, it will freeze to the ground and then return in the spring. It's a fairly hardy plant when it comes to heat and lack of water.

11496. Jenerator - 9/17/2001 7:27:18 PM

The yellow and orange mix. Our friends who have property in Centerville, TX have it growing all over their property. The next cuttings I take will be the purple ones.

You'd be proud of my amateur efforts GlendaJean. Everything I've planted this past spring and summer has done remarkably well. Plus, I was able to get rid of a large portion of the weeds. We have mutants that grow here; those which are resistant to weed killers.

Now if I could just get my hubby to mow!;-)

11497. thoughtful - 9/18/2001 9:40:37 AM

Good butternut squash this weekend...pare squash and slice into 1/2" thick slices and place in casserole. Do the same with 2 baking apples. Then top with a mixture of 1/4c. melted butter, 1/2c. brown sugar, 1/2 t. salt, 1/4 t. pepper and 1 t. mace. Bake covered at 350 for 50-60 min until squash is tender. Came out quite good.

11498. thoughtful - 9/18/2001 9:41:16 AM

oops and 1T flour in the mixture. (I hope I didn't forget anything else.)

11499. thoughtful - 9/18/2001 9:41:32 AM

thought of Irv and Indonesia when I was adding the mace.

11500. glendajean - 9/19/2001 10:11:36 AM

A night and a morning of steady rain.

My roses are finishing a burst of new leaves and limbs, their red color appropriate for fall. I hope I get one more blush of flowers out of them.

There is a touch of black spot. I've been amiss in spraying.

The asters opened this past weekend The zinnias continue to bloom as if summer will never end.

11501. judithathome - 9/19/2001 10:21:02 AM

There were horrible storms last night with winds up to 60mph but we only caught about 7 minutes of rain from it...most was to the north of us. Maybe Christi got some it.

Great personal news: I've lost 81/2 pounds on the diet I started 31/2 weeks ago and aside from being sick of salad twice a day, I feel great and fell extra healthy! (It's not JUST salad, it's just that you HAVE to eat salad along with everything else...not a bad idea but still.)

11502. thoughtful - 9/19/2001 10:39:57 AM

Congrats on the weight loss! Keep up the good work.

11503. Absensia - 9/19/2001 10:42:53 AM

Judith,
That is wonderful! Good for you!

11504. judithathome - 9/19/2001 10:48:59 AM

Thanks, guys...

11505. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2001 11:01:16 AM

So how would you describe yourself now Judith? Slender? Lithe? Sleek? Svelte? Or simply gorgeous?
Congratulations in any case. Losing weight is not easy (he says, knowingly).

11506. judithathome - 9/19/2001 11:06:44 AM

No Pelle, none of those adjectives fit yet though my husband thinks I'm gorgeous all the time.

Losing weight at my age certainly isn't as easy as it used to be 25 years ago...back then, you could lose 5 pounds over the weekend or get ready for bikini season in one week.

I'm not doing this for looks, anyhow, but for a more healthy appraoch in my day to day activities. I figure the more weight and pressure I take off my knee, the easier it will be for me to walk every day and stay active.

11507. glendajean - 9/19/2001 12:27:18 PM

Congrats, Judith!

I've lost 38 pounds since May 7. It's been around 1 pound per week for the last several weeks. No severe dieting, although I've pretty much cut out fried foods, have limited sweets, and increased eating fruits. And continue to walk outside and exercise on the treadmill.

I am much closer to the weight I want to be. And I have the same motivation --health. I feel much better.

11508. Jenerator - 9/19/2001 12:32:02 PM

Good for you Judith (and GlendaJean). You two are losing weight the healthiest way possible. I'm excited for you both, I know it feels good!

We got pounded with rain, just as Judith said, and I'm concerned about my freshly planted Lantanna. The leaves look wilted and dark on the edges. Is it sitting in too much water?

11509. christipeters - 9/19/2001 12:35:35 PM

Judith - Congratulations on the weight loss.

I think most of the storm missed us, unless I slept through it. (possible) Maybe it was between where you are and where I am.

11510. glendajean - 9/19/2001 12:43:08 PM

Jen -- water is usually not a problem unless you planted it in an area with poor drainage. That could result from location -- everything runs down to that spot and there is no place for the water to drain -- or a combination of location or a source of constant water -- run-off from an air conditioner, for example. It could also have poor soil quality that blocks the water and keeps it from draining.

So first decide if it is location. If that spot is always going to be mushy, then move your plants. Lantana don't like to sit in water.

If you add compost, peat and mulch to the soil (organic stuff), that will help break up the soil, absorb moisture that is needed and allow for drainage of excess soil, providing you are not in a wetland (see above).

If this stress is simply because you are in the middle of a heavy rainstorm, the water will run off, the sun will come out and the plant will do fine.

11511. glendajean - 9/19/2001 12:48:08 PM

corrections:

a combination of location AND a source of constant water...

Lantana does not like to sit in water...(I was thinking in the plural).

Lantana has a woody stem (over time), and it will need to be cut back by the end of summer or late winter. The wood has a tart pungent aroma. It of course is a sun-loving plant. A good choice for a Texas garden along with native verbenas and a variety of perennial salvias.

My favorite salvia in Texas this time of year is the Mexican Sage. I've forgotten the botanical name. It has a furry quality to it and the purple spikes bloom in September.

11512. janjon - 9/19/2001 12:55:11 PM

without in any way trying to diminish the achievement, losing 38 pounds in five or so months is not usually a healthy way to do it. But, GJ seems among other good attributes to be a most sensible type, so I assume he's consulting with a doctor and with him/her watching out for impact on organs, muscles, etc.

11513. Jenerator - 9/19/2001 12:57:52 PM

r? qi? yard was professionally landscaped about five years ago. There are small holly bushes (which I hate) and two Crape Mertles (sp? -- my french lessons would have me spell them crepe murdelles) and a few other small tree-like plants. I cleaned out the front beds and dug eight inch holes. I filled them with topsoil, a small amount of food and a healthy dose of water. Granted, everything underneath the topsoil in Texas is clay, but the beds seem to be a great place to plant anything.

I guess I should wait till it dries up and see what happens. What if the Lantana looks dead by then, should I pull them up and try next spring?

11514. glendajean - 9/19/2001 12:59:38 PM

Janjon, the first couple of weeks were large and probably part of the hocus-pocus one goes through at the beginning of a diet. Since then, it has rarely been over 2 pounds a week (with a couple of exceptions based on additonal exercise).

Yes, I've seen a docter. I am a large person height wise and the percentage is not as great as you would imagine.

The health benefits are enormous. And none of this was from a fad (ala Atkins), starvation or substitute foods. Small restriction in diet (sweets, fried foods) and lots of daily exercise.

11515. thoughtful - 9/19/2001 1:02:52 PM

Congrats to gj too on your shape-up. Excellent.

11516. janjon - 9/19/2001 1:04:17 PM

sounds good, GJ. As you know, the slow but steady way, as part of a life style change in terms of eating correct/not eating "bad" foods and lots of appropriate exercise, is the only way for most people to insure that the weight loss isn't only temporary.

sayeth someone who's been there, on a much smaller scale.

and, yes, the health benefits are enormous.

congratulations!

11517. Jenerator - 9/19/2001 1:05:32 PM

Weird. The first word in my last post should have been "The".

11518. judithathome - 9/19/2001 1:05:36 PM

GJ:

The next time we meet, we may have to wear name tags to recognize each other...:-)

Just kidding...I'd recognize your smile anywhere!

11519. glendajean - 9/19/2001 1:06:02 PM

Jen -- Wait till the rain stops. If your plants die in the next week, then you may have a water problem.

But unless they are in a foot of water for more than a day or so, they should be fine.

11520. judithathome - 9/19/2001 1:07:32 PM

janjon:

You are so right...awhile back, I lost a lot on the Atkins diet but slowly gained it back. This plan I'm on now is much more realistic.

11521. glendajean - 9/19/2001 1:08:24 PM

Judith -- and I would recognize your zest for life anywhere.

Janjon--I had said this earlier, but am not sure that you saw it. I was relieved that you are ok. We really worried about you.

11522. janjon - 9/19/2001 1:15:02 PM

thanks, GJ. My and our travails were indeed insignificant in the large AND small picture of what life became around here a week ago.

the enormity of it all is still sinking in for many people here.

11523. judithathome - 9/19/2001 1:20:13 PM

Speaking of both the trials of the past week and weight loss, Calista Flockhart was just on an ad for the Red Cross...in another age, she'd have looked like a waif in need of help.

Still does, actually.

11524. christipeters - 9/19/2001 2:06:06 PM

GJ - Congratulations to you, too, on your weight loss.

11525. glendajean - 9/19/2001 2:08:55 PM

Thanks, Christi.

Nothing like watching what you eat while the world is falling apart.

11526. Jenerator - 9/19/2001 2:10:42 PM

Judith,

Our friend Dave thinks Calista is hot. Yeah, if you like women with prepubescent 10 year-old boy bodies.

11527. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2001 3:49:32 PM

Judith

Sorry for posting and disappearing. Our LAN went down. Anyhow I was just flaunting my modest vocabulary. I'm a little vain in that way sometimes. But I do visualise you as gorgeous in a mature way.

glenda

38 pounds!? You must have been a littler, er ... plump. And you must have gone through 2-3 wardrobes.

11528. judithathome - 9/19/2001 3:52:08 PM

Thanks Pelle...maybe someday we can visit Sweden and you can judge for yourself how mature I look.

11529. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2001 3:53:28 PM

glenda

I saw you mention that you are tall. Change plump to portly.

11530. glendajean - 9/19/2001 4:02:21 PM

Pelle, I was turning into a porker. I've lost 4 inches in my waist and counting.

11531. judithathome - 9/19/2001 4:07:29 PM

By the way, Pelle, I hope you only meant "mature" and not matronly.;-)

11532. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2001 4:14:52 PM

My English is not that bad.

11533. arkymalarky - 9/19/2001 7:38:24 PM

Wow, congrats to Judith and GJ!

11534. judithathome - 9/20/2001 3:02:38 PM

I just posted a soup recipe (not on my diet) that while I have never tried it, sounded too wonderful to pass up...

11535. thoughtful - 9/20/2001 5:05:55 PM

It does sound good...and not that dietetic, but I do love soups. Especially this time of year.

11536. thoughtful - 9/20/2001 5:07:01 PM

We just had a new water system put in...$2k! Yikes! Hopefully it will have more pressure. Part of our prepping the old house for sale while we're waiting to make progress on the new one. Surveyors have done a second survey on the place now.

11537. glendajean - 9/20/2001 6:06:01 PM

I did that once when I sold a house. One of those things that you think you can get by until it has to be fixed for selling.

I had great showers the last two weeks I lived in that house.

11538. judithathome - 9/20/2001 6:41:17 PM

There is a site at World Crossing called Mrs. Spiders Kitchen...she posts great recipes but there is a picture of a giant tarantula on the front page that just creeps me out.

11539. Jenerator - 9/21/2001 8:01:58 AM

Ack! My Lantana is drowning!

11540. glendajean - 9/24/2001 10:51:19 AM

The earth turned a little colder last night, with highs not supposed to reach 60 degrees (F) today.

I just barely got the front yard mowed yesterday before a big rain storm hit.

With a church choir retreat through Saturday afternoon, I didn't get many opportunities to garden.

11541. Jenerator - 9/24/2001 11:22:28 AM

GlendaJean,

I would like to plant some Blue Bonnets and Indian Paint Brushes this week.

I've never planted them before, let alone planted any seedlings.

Do you have any tips or advice?

11542. glendajean - 9/24/2001 11:30:51 AM

Jenerator -- I am unsure. Are you planting seeds or are you planting seedlings (small sprouts)?

For either, this is the time to do this. There was wonderful nursery in Austin where I would get my bluebonnet seedlings, including pink ones.

For the non-Texans in the crowd, bluebonnets are wild lupines that grow in Texas in abundance.

Once you get a good patch going, let them go to seed after they bloom. Then either recapture the seed and replant, or let it re-seed itself.

Bluebonnets are difficult to transplant, but when they sprout up their original leaves, they can be moved (sometime between now and December). Once the plant establishes itself, it is difficult to move it without killing it.

I used to hunt through my garden for the sprouts, moving them to the location that I wanted them.

I would also suggest, Jenerator, that you buy some larkspur seed and put it in your garden. Larkspur has lacey foliage, and a mixture of purple, pink and white blooms. Also allow it to re-seed. They are lovely spring flowers.

And of course, somewhere you should have the very hardy purple coneflower. It takes the heat and lack of water well, and if dead-headed, will provide a second and third wave of bloom during the long Texas summer. Of course, you want to save the last wave of bloom to allow for further reseeding.

11543. glendajean - 9/24/2001 11:32:32 AM

Bluebonnets need sun and good drainage. The little sprouts stay close to the ground during the cold months of winter and then burst up in March, putting on the bracket stalks of bloom.

11544. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2001 1:06:23 PM

When I woke up this morning and entered the living room a Great Tit stared me in my face.

We both got a start. It tried to escape through a closed window and hit it so hard that it got dazed. I picked it up and put it on the balcony. After a while it recovered and flew away. I hope it didn't suffer any permanent damage.

This is the first time anything like that has happened in over 20 years.

11545. ScottLoar - 9/24/2001 1:16:08 PM

A record which I'm sure will stand unmatched.

11546. labwabbit - 9/24/2001 1:23:18 PM

...otherwise known to North Americans...as the Chickadee.

[D-9]

11547. judithathome - 9/24/2001 1:26:37 PM

Pelle:

Is there a German tea called telia?

11548. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2001 1:31:32 PM

You call tits chickadees? How strange.

Parus major
Genus : Paridae
German : Kohlmeise
English : Great Tit
Spanish : Carbonero común
French : Mésange charbonnière
Italian : Cinciallegra
Dutch : Koolmees
Russian : Bolshaya Sinitsa
Swedish : Talgoxe

The German, Spanish, French and Dutch names are all associated with coal. The Swedish name translates to "Tallow Ox". That too, is very strange.

11549. Absensia - 9/24/2001 1:33:57 PM

Pelle,
Was your wife home when this Giant Tit appeared?

11550. labwabbit - 9/24/2001 1:43:51 PM

Pelle
Yep.
In fact it's the State of Maine's state bird...as well as the white pine cone and tassle being the state tree.

11551. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2001 1:44:53 PM

Absensia

Luckily no. I got rid of the Tit before I picked her up at the raiway station.

Judith

Telia is the name of the major telephone company her (I works for a subsidiary). The photo is for a pre-paid card for to use in callboxes.

Btw, if you want uppercase back in your handle log in again and type it the way you want it.

11552. judithathome - 9/24/2001 2:06:06 PM

Oh, thanks....I'll do that!

I know it what the word means; I just wondered if you knew of a tea in Germany with a similar name; it tastes of lime and is theraputic in some way to nerves.

11553. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2001 2:23:02 PM

How utterly mangled my #11151 was! The "pre-paid card for to use" is a typical Arabism. NSA may have spotted it already.

11554. Jenerator - 9/24/2001 2:33:13 PM

I thought "tit" meant baby mouse?

11555. glendajean - 9/24/2001 2:34:53 PM

The bird in the picture is called a tit in Indiana. I've seen them at my bird feeder.

11556. thoughtful - 9/24/2001 2:40:09 PM

In the states we have a bird called the tufted titmouse which is different from the black capped chickadee.

11557. Jenerator - 9/26/2001 9:52:33 PM

GlendaJean,

My Lantana died fom too much rain. I went to the nursery today and bought more Lantana and some Salvia, per your request. I also bought five packets of wildflower seed mixes and Blue Bonnets.

11558. bubbaette - 9/26/2001 9:58:13 PM

I thought all Texans were required by state law to plant bluebonnets.

I get both black-capped chickadees and tufted titmice at my birdfeeders. But I've never seen a black-capped chickadee with a yellow belly.

11559. Jenerator - 9/26/2001 10:00:26 PM

Bubba,

It should be a requirement, but isn't yet.

11560. bubbaette - 9/26/2001 10:01:49 PM

I meet all Virginia requirements by having dogwoods and cardinals in my yard.

11561. Jenerator - 9/26/2001 10:06:24 PM

But I thought that landscaping was a no-no for your sell-quick scheme?

11562. bubbaette - 9/26/2001 10:09:29 PM

It was already there when we moved in, but the dogs haven't killed everything off and packed the ground entirely out back, like they have out front.

11563. Jenerator - 9/26/2001 10:13:40 PM

Shimmy and Buster have so many dogs that their backyard looks like it's covered in charcoals, if you know what I mean.

11564. bubbaette - 9/26/2001 10:17:38 PM

Yard mines, I call em. Makes what grass remains greener.

11565. Jenerator - 9/26/2001 10:19:42 PM

Well, the "yard honey" has taken care of the remaining grass.

11566. bubbaette - 9/26/2001 10:27:05 PM

Well it makes it tough for me to make it all the way out to my pea patch without soiling my fluffy mules. It's hard to get a sloppy yard mine out of the fluff on my mules.

11567. bubbaette - 9/26/2001 10:32:10 PM

And on that note, I'm off to bed.

11568. glendajean - 9/26/2001 11:01:12 PM

I once planted blue bonnet seeds in my DC garden, I got a 4 inch tall plant with about 3 or 4 brackets on it. It was quite pathetic.

11569. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 9:24:51 AM

I love blue bonnets, but I'm not so confident that the seeds will produce for me next spring.

The guy at the nursery (must have been 80 years old and in a cowboy hat said, "Just sprinkle them in yer yard and rake 'em.")

11570. thoughtful - 9/27/2001 1:48:56 PM

It was really chilly this a.m.....45 degrees. I'm having parents over for dinner on Sat. night. Hubby wants beef, I want comfort food. Somehow this time of year always makes me look for browns and beiges, toasty fires, and colorful mums. I'm thinking a good old-fashioned pot roast. Still have tomatoes so another run of tomato salad it will be.

11571. Webfeet - 9/27/2001 2:01:31 PM

Thoughtful, we must both be on the same culinary/psychological path. I'm making pot roast tonight. I don't do it that often, and I was wondering how you prepare yours, what seasoning you use, and how long to cook, etc.

11572. ronski - 9/27/2001 2:05:58 PM

We got down to 40 degrees, and it was cloudy, which kept it from getting colder. I took in the bougainvillea, but left the most of the orchids outside. I will take them all in tonight, since we may have frost.

Last night's clouds eliminated any chance of seeing northern lights, which were forecast.

11573. ronski - 9/27/2001 2:06:52 PM

I, too, have found growing Texas bluebonnets difficult to impossible.

11574. Toenails - 9/27/2001 2:10:07 PM

The secret of pot roast is simple: maximum feasible cholesterol.

Put twice as much beef in there as any reasonable recipe would call for. Sure, it'll kill you, eventually, but, hey, no guts, no glory!

11575. ronski - 9/27/2001 2:11:40 PM

But if anyone wants to try bluebonnets, this nursery sells the seed in bulk, and also sells a maroon colored version of them. They also have lots of other native and naturalized wildflower seeds. I have found that orange butterfly weed seeds germinate surpisingly well, but they take a couple of years to establish.

Wildseed Farms

11576. thoughtful - 9/27/2001 2:18:36 PM

Webfeet, I must be honest with you I haven't made it in so long and I make it so rarely that I don't remember how I do it...I know that I add carrots, celery, onion, bay leaf, and thyme, some kind of liquid like beef broth or red wine and of course salt & pepper and I brown the meat in a pot first in its own fat. I think the last time I did it in the crock pot which cooks all day and it came out good. But I find the crockpot still leaves the veggies too crunchy so I always pre-cook them somewhat in the microwave before I add them to the pot. I usually do the potatoes separately as there isn't enough room in the crock pot for them too. I stir in 1/4c. flour mixed with 1/4c. water during the last hour of cooking and turn the pot up to high to thicken the gravy. I'll add worchestershire sauce to the gravy at the end to taste if it's too bland. Mom-in-law used to serve hers over egg noodles or with mashed potatoes on the side, but we always had boiled potatoes with ours. She did hers with lots of bay leaf and some tomato paste.

11577. thoughtful - 9/27/2001 2:22:54 PM

Oh, and I think she used to use paprika with hers too...slovaks like hungarians frequently deploy paprika.

11578. bubbaette - 9/27/2001 2:24:47 PM

I like a touch of ground clove in a pot roast and a teaspoon of celery seed.

11579. Webfeet - 9/27/2001 2:37:29 PM

Sounds marvelous, thanks so much. that's exactly what I needed to know, something a little precise, especially the trick with the flour and water at the end.

Has anyone visited Sylvia's in Harlem for its southern style soul food? I'd like to take michel there saturday and hoped to get some tips on what to order considering im not the gizzards and chitlins type.

11580. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 2:53:30 PM

I use the same exact ingredients that thoughtful does, but if I cook them in the crockpot for more than 6 hours, the veggies are perfectly tender.

11581. judithathome - 9/27/2001 2:55:30 PM

Get sweet potato pie, whatever you do.

11582. ronski - 9/27/2001 3:00:58 PM

Clove is also added, and important to, pot roast's Teutonic relative, saurbraten.

It's also said to be slightly carcinogenic, as is said of raw mushrooms. Nothing is safe.

11583. janjon - 9/27/2001 3:01:48 PM

never been to Sylvia's but understand that you are less likely to get dishes that are mostly fat there than at other similar places. Be very careful as to what meats you order and stick to greens for your veggies (although your husband, being French, might blanch at how over and I mean over cooked they will be). Sweet potato pie sounds o.k.

11584. judithathome - 9/27/2001 3:16:04 PM

It's much better than okay. Even bad sweet potato pie is good.

11585. marjoribanks - 9/27/2001 3:18:09 PM

Hey, webbie, we marinate our pot roasts overnight first, with a fairly thick coating of English mustard, thyme, salt, black pepper, some sugar, and soy sauce. It works well, exact details available on request this evening.

--

We love Sylvia's. You should go on Sunday (not Saturday) when it often has live music and lots of bedecked after-church patrons. Try to sit in the room on the left, not the one on the right which is a lot less charming.

The item of choice, for me, is the Fried Chicken. The ribs are good too. And so are all the sides, especially the mac-cheese, the collard greens, and the rice and peas.

Alternatively, by the way, go in the late evening (get a babysitter) and after dinner walk over to the excellent and storied Lenox Lounge for a dose of live jazz.

11586. ronski - 9/27/2001 3:19:49 PM

I like so prefer pumpkin pie to sweet potato pie. I find the latter dense and cloying, but the former yummy.

And I love greens and pot liquor.

11587. glendajean - 9/27/2001 3:32:33 PM

And I love greens and pot liquor.

You and Huey P. Long. He sang the praises of pot liquor or likker.

I love greens. And a choice between fried chicken and ribs would be difficult for me.

I fly tomorrow to Texas for a short visit and I am looking forward to a Tex-Mex meal and a meal of Chicken Fried Steak, exactly the kind of food I have not eaten in a while.

11588. ronski - 9/27/2001 3:37:45 PM

Have a good, safe flight. We are not scheduled to fly again until Thanksgiving week, and then all the way to Palm Springs. But we think we will still go. I certainly will want to fly out west this winter for skiing.

11589. Webfeet - 9/27/2001 3:44:46 PM

A week ago, maybe even a few days ago I would have thought it was too early for sweet potato pie, but now Im ready. It's too cool to wear sandals. definetely fall.

So true, the French are all about crunchy food. I think my husband was making an emphatic point once about how he liked the crunch of french foods, as opposed to a kabob,(which he was eating at that moment) or other middle eastern foods. It's a texture problem. He's not shy about gizzards, and Im actually afraid he will order them and they will have snuck some fried squirrel brains in or some other backwoods specialty. Suicide bombers, kreutzfelt jacob symdrome, what else is my subconscious trying to say to me (you)

Actually, the sick part, the underlying pathos of this decision of mine to go to Sylvia's, is that it's far, far north of ground zero.

11590. theDiva - 9/27/2001 3:47:28 PM

oh God, Sylvias and the Lenox Lounge.

I may die of envy.

11591. marjoribanks - 9/27/2001 3:54:04 PM

Preview all NY-area restaurants at chowhound.com, by the way. A truly useful website.

11592. Webfeet - 9/27/2001 3:55:04 PM

Ever resourceful marj. I knew I could count on you. You've whet my appetite already.

Unfortunately, we can only go Saturday. Frenchcat has worn the elbows through 3 good suits and this is something we;re squeezing in afterward for a little date night.

Which reminds me, you and janjon are probably up on men's haberdashery here in NYC. Barring ultra-chic boutiques, where do you shop for suits? THe last three were from Bloomingdales (calvin klein and joseph aboud), and now my contrarian husband has ruled out Bloomingdales. The real problem is that he wears out his clothing faster than the little rascals. THe elbow is blown out of all three on the same arm.

Any suggestions? (Now that Century 21 is no longer around)
What about Men's Warehouse? Is that loserland?

11593. Webfeet - 9/27/2001 3:56:54 PM

Has the quality of Brooks Brothers suits gone down since they've been bought?

frenchcat ripped a whole through a perfectly innocent v-neck merino wool sweater and now refuses to go back. Is it the merchandise or the man?

11594. thoughtful - 9/27/2001 3:57:31 PM

clove in pot roast? not tried it but I think I will. sounds perfect for fall.

Jen, maybe you cut your veggies smaller than I? I've had the same problem with beef stew in the crock pot and I leave the darn thing cooking 8-10 hrs with the last hr on high and they are still hard-centered unless I precook.

Mom's bringing pumpkin pie for dessert....she makes a pumpking chiffon that's much lighter than a regular one...I believe I posted the recipe in the sub thread awhile back.

Also had co. last weekend and made lime pie for dessert...melt semisweet choc. bits and brush that onto a baked pie shell first...then fill. Lime and chocolate a truly wonderful combo.

11595. marjoribanks - 9/27/2001 3:59:56 PM

I no longer wear suits every day, and the few I own are all bought on trips to England.

Barney's is the best, I thought, but expensive if you can't catch the sales. Plus, probably silly if you wear suits out fast.

11596. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 4:03:14 PM

thoughtful,

Maybe I use more liquid than you do?

GlendaJean,

For *great* TexMex, try Cantina Laredo in Addison, you won't be sorry!

11597. judithathome - 9/27/2001 4:03:33 PM

I don't know about Mens Warehouse where you are but they have nice things here. Course, we're all cowpokes so how would we know?

11598. judithathome - 9/27/2001 4:04:40 PM

Jen, since GJ is going to Austin, Addison would be quite a drive for TexMex....

Unless you ARE coming up this way?

11599. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 4:06:12 PM

webfeet,

Does your husband have abnormally large elbows?

11600. theDiva - 9/27/2001 4:09:04 PM

well, that's a rather personal question.

11601. thoughtful - 9/27/2001 4:09:22 PM

Before hubby retired, he was getting suits and ties at the goodwill. He's a pretty regular-sized guy --38 regular-- and you wouldn't believe all the suits we'd find that fit him really well, many just like new. (You can always tell by checking the pants pockets and the hems.) The most he paid for a suit was $35...and silk ties (givenchy, dior, liberty, various italian silks) all $2 each. He worked in a job that required business formal wear, but he'd end up visiting very messy factories inspecting machinery. I got tired of him coming home with brand new multi-hundred $ suits that were ruined. (Once he was inspecting a machine when a hydraulic line blew and he was covered head to toe in hydraulic fluid! Soaked through.) Goodwill turned out to be a perfect solution and he was complimented many times on what a natty dresser he was. Hah!

11602. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 4:11:18 PM

I love Liberty.

11603. thoughtful - 9/27/2001 4:21:27 PM

I've done a lot of shopping for clothes at goodwill and its ilk. I was so thankful once when I had to buy clothes for Mother in law as, after she went in the nursing home, she put on 30 lbs. and nothing would fit. She's also only about 4'10" so any petite sized clothing usually means me spending hours shortening pants. Well someone must have just cleaned out a closet and I found about 6 pairs of pants, just her size, just the right length in polyester (washable, durable) with elastic waists (easy for getting over diapers) in an array of good basic colors. A whole new wardrobe for her for <$20! Was I thrilled.

For myself, I bought a gray and black suede jacket for $15, belts, sweaters and even shirts with the original price tags still on them.

11604. janjon - 9/27/2001 4:23:08 PM

webfeet -

I too ponder what it is about your husband that causes him to wear out the elbows of suits. Sweaters, sure, but suits? I mean, for most men it is the crotch that goes in suits.

Call me a stick in the mud, but I still think Brooks Brothers is good value. And, no, I don't think the quality has deteriorated since M&S bought them (they are now for sale again.) I would, however, get the BB own make. I suspect that good deals can be had about now.

Barneys of course would be fine, but marj is certainly correct - go to their warehouse or make sure it is on sale. Ditto, Bergdorf's (even sales price would be ludicrous) or Saks.

By the way - there is a Century 21 still around, I am told. A big one way out in Brooklyn. (Don't laugh - probably shopped at by the countless Russian emigrees among others - their taste might be a tad on the flashy side, esp. for women, but they know good quality and are very knowledgeable about designers.)

If you can't get to London to buy, another suggestion would be go to Canada. Both Toronto and Montreal have Holt Renfrews (sort of like a combo. of our Saks and Bergdorfs), and because of the weakness of the Can. dollar, you can get superb quality at about 2/3rds American price.

11605. thoughtful - 9/27/2001 4:25:21 PM

We tried Brooks bros once but found the suits were cut too boxy for hubby. They made him look old and too conservative. The last new thing I bought him was a navy sports jacket from the men's wearhouse and it fit well and was reasonably priced. We've also met with luck at Burlington, though that was years and years ago. We have a sy syms in the area, but I can't shop there....the store is painted all black...black walls, black ceiling, everything and when I'm in there I feel like I can't breathe.

11606. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 4:25:39 PM

I bought a pair of vintage Levis from Goodwill my freshman year in college. They were nice and faded and entirely too comfortable. Iwear them to this day. A few years later, i went back to buy some Halloween accessories (I was Linda Richman from "Coffee Talk") and I found some vintage 1978 Christian Dior disco sunglasses. It was fun.

11607. Webfeet - 9/27/2001 4:28:09 PM

I think if my mother suggested that, thoughtful, I'd scream at her. (I have always been in revolt against her coupon clipping ways) But it sounds clever and utterly sensible coming from you.

On second thought, I think I will give Men's Warehouse or is it Wearhourse a try, Judith. We went to its french cousin, an outlet in Provence called Degriffe, and we found a Cerruti suit for the equivalent of $300.

11608. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 4:32:54 PM

I bought an Italian chocolate brown wool crepe suit in England for $50, which is a miracle because England (espcially London) is notoriously expensive, Plus, the shops there only have sales twice a year.

11609. thoughtful - 9/27/2001 4:34:57 PM

Jen, Hah! That's actually how we got started. For a halloween party hubby and i were going as a gangster and his moll. I bought a pinstriped suit that I figured would go with a black shirt & white tie, but when he put it on, it looked entirely too good to be a costume and it changed his shopping ever since. Funny too as he hated shopping, but the bargain hunting struck a chord and I never had trouble getting him into the Goodwill like I did the department stores.

11610. glendajean - 9/27/2001 4:38:14 PM

Judith is right. It's off to Austin, land of cheap dive food galore, or so it used to be.

I'll be in Plano for Thanksgiving on a very brief hop. In on T-day morning and out by Saturday afternoon.

And unfortunately, my sainted mother counts the seconds that I am not with her and the family.

11611. glendajean - 9/27/2001 4:40:32 PM

Did all of the Filene's Basements go out of business? I bought a nice blazer at the one in Dupont Circle in DC for a good price. That's been a few years. There used to be one up on the Upper West Side on Broadway.

thoughtful -- The Syms in Diva City is the same, all black. It's very unsettling.

11612. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 4:41:04 PM

Austin is pretty and infinitely cooler. That's neat you'll be in Plano on Thanksgiving, I'll raise up my fork in your honor.

11613. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 4:47:36 PM

For men's suits, one designer brand which I cannot stand, is Versace. If you buy them from the boutiques, they fall apart. They are so shabbily made.

The last thing that I bought for myself from there was a cocktail dress, and the whole evening I had to chase down the beads that fell off. Oh, and I had to pin the strap that popped off at an inconvenient time.

What a rip off.

11614. Webfeet - 9/27/2001 4:48:35 PM

Jenerator, janjon, I think he just hates suits. He strips to his underwear the minute he comes in the door, wrestles it off him like a python, and then throws it on the floor like he's disgusted with it. Like it's been paining him.

I think we'd be overpowered by the russians at Century 21, but it's worth a shot. Somehow proximity will probably play a big factor in all of this, and we will most likely end up at Brooks.
But canada is a wonderful idea, something to keep in mind.

11615. judithathome - 9/27/2001 4:49:09 PM

So will I, GJ...not sure where we're going to be on Thanksgiving but it will be somewhere with good food.

11616. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 4:55:08 PM

Webfeet,

It sounds to me as though the suits don't really fit him, either. My hubby likes the way he looks in suits and struts his stuff like peacock in the morning. By quittin' time, he's ready to get into his informal uniform: cargo shorts and t-shirt.

11617. alistairconnor - 9/27/2001 5:05:01 PM

So this is le dernier salon où on cause...
Thank you all for lifting my mood.

I'd better buy some clothes tomorrow. I'm at the point where if I've got two pairs of pants in the wash, I've got nothing to wear. I don't mean, nothing with holes in it (who cares what I look like?) but nothing.

I'm taking the daughters to the market tomorrow morning, so I'll rely on their advice. They both have much better taste and dress sense than I do.

11618. Ms. No - 9/27/2001 5:09:33 PM

Webfeet,

Does Frenchcat know that he can take off the jacket if he's sitting at his desk long enough to rest his elbow on it while he works?

Maybe the on again off again jacket thing would annoy him, but how comfortable can it be to sit in a suit jacket all day?

11619. glendajean - 9/27/2001 5:10:19 PM

There will be good food at my brother's table, and also a bowl of my mother's pink stuff. I will remember you both, too.

11620. ScottLoar - 9/27/2001 5:30:41 PM

I arrive late to the conversation but hasten to add - Syms. Where else to go for a man's suit? Syms.

11621. ScottLoar - 9/27/2001 5:32:35 PM

Brooks Brothers are outrageously conservative, belonging to fat, balding lawyers or, alternatively, young, soon-to-be-bald lawyers aspiring for partnership.

11622. ScottLoar - 9/27/2001 5:35:29 PM

If a man throws his suit off it's because it doesn't fit him, and a man's suit is ill-fitting usually for reason the cut doesn't suit his frame.

11623. janjon - 9/27/2001 5:37:15 PM

syms is schlocky.

11624. Jenerator - 9/27/2001 6:05:22 PM

[Scott, I used to window dress for an Italian tailor who owned a custom suit store in Dallas. I assure you that you and I have identical tastes in men's clothing. Now, care to tell me about your pj's again?....]

11625. ScottLoar - 9/27/2001 11:04:15 PM

No, Syms is not schlocky. I find at least one or two good suits after the crowd has picked over through the greys, browns, blacks and blue and what remains is a Jhane Barnes woven pin-stripe, double-breasted. I've got two of'em. The price is very reasonable.

My favourite ties I bought in India, shoes Italian with laces.

11626. ScottLoar - 9/27/2001 11:06:43 PM

Jenerator, women compliment the way I dress - to my face. There's no higher accolade.

11627. Jenerator - 9/28/2001 12:03:30 PM

Scott,

I picture you as Lord Goring (Rupert Everett) in An Ideal Husband; both in fashion sense and demeanor.

11628. theDiva - 9/28/2001 12:09:18 PM

hm. I picture Loar looking like Jeremy Northam in Emma.

11629. rubberducky - 9/28/2001 12:11:55 PM

Re: Message # 11611, glendajean.

Did all of the Filene's Basements go out of business?

i'm not sure, but one opened here in Columbus earlier this year.

11630. Jenerator - 9/28/2001 12:18:54 PM

I liked Northam in Happy, Texas, one of my favorite funny movies.

11631. christipeters - 9/28/2001 12:29:59 PM

Any advice on how to make cheap steaks tender? I picked up some chuck steaks on the way home yesterday. I used Adolph's meat tenderizer on them, then marinated them in mesquite marinade for 40 minutes before I grilled them.

They were still quite a challenge to the teeth.

So, how should I do it next time to get them to come out more edible?

11632. theDiva - 9/28/2001 12:34:44 PM

Pound them.

11633. Jenerator - 9/28/2001 12:35:47 PM

Yes, pound them like it's 1999.

11634. ronski - 9/28/2001 1:09:00 PM

I have found that the longer you marinate meat, the more tender it is, which would make sense. I once marinated some chicken overnight and it turned almost to mush (but still was edible).

11635. thoughtful - 9/28/2001 1:41:17 PM

christip, I have a recipe at home for teriyaki sauce for chuck steak. You do have to marinate for hours and the marinade includes vinegar which is what really does the tenderizing. Other ingredients include soy sauce and brown sugar, and dry mustard, but I'll have to look it up. Actually makes a cheap cut decently tender.

11636. thoughtful - 9/28/2001 1:43:03 PM

gj, re the black syms, I remember one xmas many years back when I went into bloomies in manhattan and they had painted the whole entrance black...walls, ceiling, everything, then the crowds were so bad that you could barely move on your own....you were sort of pushed along whether you wanted to go or not. On top of that they had the women spraying everyone with perfume samples. I thought I was going to scream. Needless to say we vamoosed ASAP.

11637. pellenilsson - 9/28/2001 2:04:05 PM

If the marinade includes acid such as vinegar or wine you can let a steak stay in there for a week or even two.

If you have bought a good cut that has not been properly tenderised you can take it out of its wrapping and simply keep it in the fridge for a couple of days, loosely covered so that it breathes but does not dry out.

11638. ronski - 9/28/2001 2:07:09 PM

Adolph's also includes papain, the active ingredient in papaya, which tenderizes meat, and which is also sold as a digestive aid. Adding papaya to a marinade is nice, but it is the acidic ingredients that really break down the tissue the most.

11639. Absensia - 9/28/2001 2:17:02 PM

Pound them, and marinade if you want. But, if your marinade contains contains anything acidic, such as vinegar, wine, orange juice, etc., the meat will be mushy if left there for more than an hour or two. Tasty but. mushy. Just learned that a couple of weeks ago by reading Shirley O. Corriher's book, "Cookwise: The Hows and Whys of Successful Cooking". She explains the chemical, etc., aspects of cooking. A great book.

11640. janjon - 9/28/2001 2:18:53 PM

switch to fish.

problem solved.

healthier, too.

11641. christipeters - 9/28/2001 2:28:56 PM

Thanks for the advice, y'all.

Thoughtful - If you get a chance to pass on that recipe, I'd appreciate it.

11642. judithathome - 9/28/2001 3:13:27 PM

Marinade them in CocaCola overnight and you'll see why it's a good idea to drink water instead of Coke.

11643. christipeters - 9/28/2001 3:53:42 PM

chuckle

11644. thoughtful - 9/28/2001 4:00:38 PM

reminds me of the old story where a man running an AA meeting takes a worm and drops it into a glass of pure alcohol and worm complete dissolves. He looks at the audience and says, "What does that tell you about drinking?" and a fellow from the back calls out, "If you drink, you won't have worms!"

11645. thoughtful - 9/29/2001 7:45:39 AM

christip, the marinade recipe is in recipes.

11646. judithathome - 9/29/2001 10:52:52 AM

Had excellent appetizers at the restaurant last night...sautéed spinach with garlic and chopped tomatoes and sautéed portobello mushrooms which had been marinated in something great. With a salad, I hardly needed anything else.

Had a few bites of Keonis Chicken Florentine, though, just to be polite. Since he offered...

11647. ronski - 9/29/2001 12:06:20 PM

It has been chilly the last few days, but an occasional cloud cover has kept the frost at bay. Orchids are still out on the deck, and doing fine.

It is great gardening weather, as the soil is damp and easy to weed and plant bulbs in. I'm putting in some dutch iris. I have never had the greatest luck with them. In zone 6 they seem to not do all that well, and I am almost in zone 5 now. They're supposed to be hardy, but I find their performance erratic. They rarely last more than one season, but they are not too expensive. I bought a large bag of mixed ones, and a smaller of a bronze color.

11648. pellenilsson - 9/29/2001 12:31:09 PM

This night we had the first frost.

11649. ronski - 9/29/2001 3:33:48 PM

It snowed on Mt. Washington (New Hampshire) yesterday.

Mt. Washington is famous for having the highest wind speed ever recorded on Earth, among other things.

11650. labwabbit - 9/29/2001 4:10:46 PM

ronski

Is ol' Marty Engstrom still holing up there in the winter? That montone delivery is classic.

Got really hung-up in Tuckerman's Ravine the first week of February one year..think it was '79. We got blasted by a 2 day storm. (It had called for partly cloudy-winds 10-15kts, temps 20-40 at the observatory.) The wind gusts reached to 95 kts for about 12-14 hrs on the second day and the temps plummeted to 15 below without the wind chill factor. We holed up in a cache of rocks and built a pretty good shelter in about 4 hours. It's a good thing we were locally accustomed to harboring suspicions for weather change. The climb down however turned out to be even more dangerous as 6" of ice coated everything down almost to the valley level. I remember there were one or two other hikers that didn't make it back that week.

Love the Presidential Range though...fantastic country.

11651. glendajean - 9/29/2001 5:06:40 PM

Texas is fat from late summer rains, particularly seen in the lovely blooming Pink Coral Vine (am unsure of its botanical name), a pink lacey bloom, excellent next to blue plumbago.

I looked up my old garden in South Austin. Everything I planted ten years ago is now big and thick.

11652. arkymalarky - 9/29/2001 5:09:04 PM

Hey! You're there! Enjoy your visit.

11653. arkymalarky - 9/29/2001 5:10:38 PM

When Mose was little my parents bought her a "sky fort" made of treated lumber, and I was sitting outside on it a minute ago, watching Bob mow. It's a glorious day, and our windows are up all over the house. I love this time of year.

11654. judithathome - 9/29/2001 5:14:26 PM

Ours are up, too...

Hey, GJ! Isn't it wonderful to see all the green in Texas this time of year? Like spring, only more deeply lush. My favorite weed is that vine that covers the roadsides this time of year and looks like minature pale violet morning glory.

11655. ronski - 9/29/2001 5:33:43 PM

labwabbit,

I dunno. I was just reporting the weather, cribbed from a Vermont skiing list serve out of UVM. But Thursday night I was making plans at dinner with a new friend from New Hampshire (she's working at my partner's newspaper on a special project) for a spring ski trip to Tuckerman's, which will be my first, and the fulfillment of a small dream. (My partner will be content with a little hiking there, I hope.) I will be content with a little skiing, not even close to the headwall, and content with not killing myself in the process. But it should be a great party.

11656. glendajean - 9/29/2001 6:12:19 PM

Judith -- everything is incredibly green. Not what one usually sees after a hot summer, when the burnt grasses fade into the brown of autumn.

Today, we're at my partner's family's old farm, in a small town close to Austin. It's so peaceful here, except, of course, for the grasshoppers who jump out of the field of faded wildflowers.

In a bit, we return to Austin and a dinner party at a friend's house.

Anybody here have the September issue of Cooking Light?

11657. judithathome - 9/29/2001 6:15:36 PM

Have a great evening and visit...our cable went out so we're in for videos.

11658. glendajean - 9/29/2001 6:16:43 PM

Have a good evening.

11659. Jenerator - 9/29/2001 7:48:55 PM

GJ,

Welcome back to Texas! It was a hot summer but nearly as bad as last year. Glad you could see some beauty in the wildflowers, still.

I'm busily making assorted cookies for tea tomorrow. A friend wants to have a bunch of us girls over for hot tea and sweets, so I'm making my world famous Florentines, Snickerdoodles, and Dark Chocolate Mint Wafers.

My husband says he's sick of cookies for dinner!

11660. ronski - 9/30/2001 11:49:09 AM

For anyone interested in seeing what labwabbit and I were talking about, click here. It's worth a look even if your idea of fun is not hiking for four hours with ski gear on your back in order to jump off an icy cliff. Also, click on the "mid-summer" link down the page a bit.

11661. judithathome - 9/30/2001 11:58:46 AM

It makes me weak to even think about it! Lord, I hope you get pictures...

11662. judithathome - 9/30/2001 3:20:02 PM

I just posted a fish soup recipe; kinda plain but looked good to me.

11663. ronski - 9/30/2001 6:40:24 PM

Planted some more asters, black-eyed susans, stokesia, and blue cardinal flower. While it's still warm enough to do that sort of thing.

11664. Jenerator - 9/30/2001 8:03:17 PM

I made some peach sun-tea today. We had it with slow-smoked ribs and macaroni and cheese. The recipe for it is in the recipe thread. Enjoy!

11665. ronski - 9/30/2001 8:56:34 PM

The season for sun tea is well over, in these parts.

But before we jumped into the tub, I looked out the window, facing east, and saw the most beautiful pink sky. We rushed outside. The entire sky, east and west, was not blue, but pink, peach, apricot and mauve. The hemlocks looked blue, the blue cedars and blue spruces, purple.

Stunning, and rare.

Caused no doubt by the sun in just the right position setting in the west, while a storm off the coast pushed clouds, but no rain, towards our mountains.

11666. Jenerator - 10/1/2001 10:41:05 AM

It feels like California here ronski. We're only getting into the mid 80s and down into the low 60s, and it's very dry.

Your sunset sounds beautiful. The bathtub is where I would have wanted to admire it from.

11667. glendajean - 10/1/2001 10:43:59 AM

Texas was relaxing. Heard at least one lecture by a current citizen about how Austin had changed and was lost. My partner, who grew up in Austin, told the fellow that he has been hearing that all of his life. Yes, any town that doubles its population every 20 years is going to change. But compare it to other cities and enjoy what you've got.

I ate Tex-Mex and barbeque. No chicken fried steak -- there just wasn't time.

11668. judithathome - 10/1/2001 10:59:44 AM

You're probably lucky you didn't eat the chicken fried...less damage to your diet!;-)

11669. christipeters - 10/1/2001 11:03:12 AM

thoughtful - thanks for the recipe!

11670. glendajean - 10/1/2001 11:13:12 AM

I had 3 long walks with friends and didn't gain. Besides, I had planned my eating this weekend as a reward for good behavior.

I'm back on the program today.

11671. judithathome - 10/1/2001 11:17:09 AM

That's a good plan, GJ...I'm going to devise something similar for my Hawaii trip. However, I seem to recall the last time we went, I actually lost a little...must have been all the walking because I certainly didn't deny myself any food!

11672. christipeters - 10/1/2001 11:32:15 AM

Hey, Judith, next time I visit y'all, I'll have to bring my new favorite bread machine bread - Anandama Oatmeal Bread.

Oatmeal, cornmeal, whole wheat flour, white flour, honey, molassas, butter....

I'd post the recipe, but I don't have it here. Just trust me, it's yummy.

11673. judithathome - 10/1/2001 12:20:22 PM

Sounds great, Christi!

11674. glendajean - 10/1/2001 12:37:12 PM

Judith -- that's the best way...eat fun stuff and lose.

The friend that I stayed with in Austin used to walk with me every morning around Town Lake back when I lived there.

We did two trips there, and one in the old neighborhood in S. Austin.

My friend had lost her daughter a few years ago and it took a long time to deal with that. It was great to see each other and do our walks together.

11675. thoughtful - 10/1/2001 1:25:52 PM

Hubby and I saw Tuckerman's ravine from the top of Mt. Washington...we hiked the Appalachian Trail...actually about 1/10 mile of it! We cheated and took the cog train to the top of the mountain which was fun. I can't imagine even hiking that ravine let alone skiing it. We were so fortunate as to be there on one of the nicest days of the year...sunny and in the 70s. A rarity up there I'm sure.

I just finished reading "A Walk in the Woods" by Bryson about his attempt to hike the AT and I decided it is definitely something I will never do. Much more fun to read about it than suffer through it....especially once he got to Maine. Yikes! Fording rivers trying to balance your 70 lb. pack on your head, slipping on slime covered rocks and inevitably falling into the icy water soaking everything through....then hiking up a mountainside on a trail so steep as to be the closest you can get to without crossing over into rock climbing...coming down the other side only to be faced with another river...for 100 miles of solid wilderness...no help, no restocking, nothing.

11676. judithathome - 10/1/2001 1:28:45 PM

He made it sound fun, tho...

11677. thoughtful - 10/1/2001 1:34:41 PM

Well, sorta like I know many people who have been to really wild parties, but I've never been to one...even when we're talking about the same party. The experience and adventure is in the telling.

11678. PelleNilsson - 10/1/2001 1:36:24 PM

This is the first real autumn day here. Greyish (now dark) and a steady drizzle. Nature is going to sleep.

11679. glendajean - 10/1/2001 2:34:22 PM

Time for the poem "Autumn Day" by Rilke. Hashke posted it for me a couple of years ago.

Lord, it is time...

I always wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail until I saw a documentary on a group of people who did that once. It's grueling work. It's takes 6 months, doesn't it? And lots of the kind of planning that I would be terrible at -- having boxes of food and clothes sent to shelters along the way.

Of course, with cell phones and such, communciation would be easier than it used to be.

11680. thoughtful - 10/1/2001 2:48:45 PM

gj, after reading this book, it's definitely not for me, though short hikes on it in key locations might be fun. The Blue Ridge section in VA sounds quite doable as it parallels the parkway so there are places to get food and such along the way and it follows more along the ridgeline rather than the up a mountain, down a mountain aspect of the rest of the trail.

Even after all the author went through, he ended up hiking less than half...only 800+ of the 2100+ miles. He hiked in a blizzard, in below zero weather, in masses of bugs for hours that chronically went up his nose, ears and in his eyes....along 10" wide cliff face with an 80' drop on one side and a sheer rock wall on the other with a 70 lb. pack on his back and the path was ice covered.

Nope. Thoughtful's idea of roughing it is when they don't turn down the bed linens and leave a chocolate on the pillow.

11681. thoughtful - 10/1/2001 3:17:09 PM

More on the AT, from the AT Conference web site on Maine:

"Some sections require grabbing onto tree roots and limbs to climb or descend, and are especially slippery and hazardous when wet. Due to thin soils, switchbacks and graded trails are uncommon."

"Until you are comfortable carrying a pack on steep, rocky and often slippery terrain, avoid the A.T. in Maine from the Bigelow range south to the Maine border, as well any section with peaks or substantial streams."

"While a small creek may be bridged elsewhere on the A.T. (not only to keep the hiker's feet dry but to prevent bank erosion and destruction of streambed habitat), almost all streams and rivers in Maine must be forded. Spring runoff from snowmelt will wash away any primitive bridge. Some of these fords can be dangerous and difficult, and potentially life-threatening in high water."

11682. glendajean - 10/1/2001 3:48:52 PM

I think I was put on earth to walk. I enjoy a long, uninterrupted walk. Always have. And I would like to do some travel via foot.

Yes, the AT is too much, too difficult for me, too.

11683. thoughtful - 10/2/2001 10:24:19 AM

Hubby and I like to go on hikes, but somehow once on them, they seem like just a long way to go with bugs and missteps and getting lost and water toting and peeing issues (for women anyway) and tiredness and sweat so that I always ask myself why we do it in the first place...until the next opportunity arises and I anxiously look forward, and even need, to take that next hike. Go figure.

But our hikes are usually relatively short, day hikes, no overnights, and we look forward to going home to that warm house, recliner chair and glass of wine with cheese.

11684. arkymalarky - 10/2/2001 10:30:14 AM

My parents used to hike a lot until my mom fell and broke an ankle and they were so far out, Dad had to go get help and they had to send a boat out for her (they were in a lake or river area or something--don't remember where).

I like short, easy hikes, and we have a trail behind our house that's a mile, and makes a lap so that we can go as many times as we want then head back for the house.

11685. glendajean - 10/2/2001 10:35:22 AM

Arky -- your trail sounds nice.

When I lived in Austin, I used to do the 8 mile loop around Town Lake in the center of town on weekends, and the 5 or 4 mile loop on weekdays.

They have a great trail system around the small lake on the Colorado River in the middle of town.

I realize one of the reasons I wanted a dog was for the excuse of going for walks. I look forward to them as much as Franklin does. Although I don't wiggle my tail or raise my paw in excitement.

11686. ronski - 10/2/2001 10:35:57 AM

thoughtful,

I've hiked a small portion of the trail because I see it from my house, and could not resist. To call it trail at all (at least in my section of it) is almost misleading. It's woods and rocks, and very steep. No path, really. Just markers on the trees to guide you.

11687. PelleNilsson - 10/2/2001 12:57:33 PM

A question about Lake Erie. Im reading Paul Ehrlich The Population Bomb (the 1971 edition). He says re pollution that in the mid 50's the lake yielded about 50 tons of fish annually but "now (i.e. 1971) only a madman would eat fish from there". Is that still so or has there been efforts to clean it up?

11688. thoughtful - 10/2/2001 1:44:15 PM

Pelle, see this or this.

11689. thoughtful - 10/2/2001 1:55:35 PM

ronski, I always envisioned it to be like the trails I take in state parks...well worn and clear...but obviously the AT is far from it. Makes it all the more amazing when you find out that it's been hiked by a blind man, by one weighing over 300 lbs., by a woman in her 80s, and so on.

11690. ronski - 10/2/2001 1:58:24 PM

I would probably recommend Great Lakes perch no matter how polluted the water is. Delicious.

But in truth, you could always eat it, only twenty years or so ago you were told not to eat it very often, much like shad (and, more importantly, shad roe) from the Hudson River.

All these waters have improved markedly by now.

11691. ronski - 10/2/2001 2:06:32 PM

The "thin soils" reference above is indeed the reason why actual paths in the AT are scarce. Basically the Appalachians run through "dry woods." There is very little soil to hold moisture up there. There are marshes, spring pools, and springs of course, but the trail is built on the rocky ridge or spine of the mountains.

Being in the same ecosystem, as it were, is why I have a damned of a time gardening. I just laid down the last several hundred pounds of top soil I had delivered this summer in my wildfower garden by the road, and it's still not as deep as it should be to grow certain things that do not like to dry out, like asters, though the butterfly weed seems happy.

But I like challenges. I had a roof garden in the Village in Manhattan, a shady garden fighting huge tree roots in Brooklyn, and I gardened in the sand on Fire Island.

Somehow, if you keep struggling, you get flowers.

11692. PelleNilsson - 10/2/2001 2:38:09 PM

Thank you thoughtful and ronski. That's useful. I could explain why I asked, but it would be long and tedious so I'll spare you.

11693. thoughtful - 10/2/2001 3:03:42 PM

shad roe...can't help but think of Louis Armstrong singing, "Let's Do It...Let's Fall in Love."

"They say in Boston even beans do it.."

11694. Jenerator - 10/2/2001 7:11:45 PM

I have a friend who has developed some skin problems after giving birth. Her face is now extremely sensitive and allergic to almost every kind of cosmetic and moisturizer. She has rosacea now which makes it even more difficult to find products that work.

I suggested that she try the mild exfoliator (13$) I use. She did, and now swears by it!

I have somewhat dry skin and so I use Kiehl's products exclusively. They have lines for men and children too and for all different skin types. I buy it at Neiman's, but it's sold in other department stores across the nation - I think Sephora carries Kiehl's, not sure.

Anyway, if any of you have problem skin or rosacea, you might want to try Kiehl's Ultra Moisturizing Buffing Cream with Scrub Particles. My husband loves the shaving cream.

11695. glendajean - 10/4/2001 11:11:55 AM

The bounties of August -- While standing out in the yard watching Franklin, my dog, poop at the other end of his leash, I saw a neighbor walking by with her Cairn Terrior on a leash.

"I have stacks of Black-Eyed Susans that I've pulled out of my beds. You can have them," she said.

The lowly BESs are somewhere between rose colored impatiens and stella d' ora day lillies in the horticultural choice department.

To its credit, it blooms solid during the warm months, it takes heat, it multiplies. A perennial, it faithfully returns each year. The plants reach a height of two feet, meaning that they can fill out a space of real estate and are tall enough to provide some vertical cover. The petals are yellow with a black or brown center, and like the purple coneflower or the Shasta Daisy, Susans can charm a corner of the yard with the most simple of displays.

That they are used a lot, that they possibly wear out their welcome by sticking around long after the excitement of a new bloom, means that they aren't for everyone or for every part of the garden.

I have a spot close to the street that I want an abundance of foilage and bloom. Closer to the house, I have more complicated ideas for the garden. Out by the street, I don't mind giving walker-bys something to look at beside grass or green shrubs. In that space, I have already planted forsythia and will put in some red barberry and perhaps a burning bush. I may come up with an evergreen bush, too. And I'll also put in orange daylillies, something I doubt I would have ever planted anywhere near my DC garden because of its tremendous rabbit like proclivity to reproduce in that soil.

11696. glendajean - 10/4/2001 11:12:08 AM

Autumn gifts from other people's gardens will help my pocketbook as I work on creating my Indy garden. Another neighbor has told me that she has Asters and hostas. Another says she has almost 50 hostas to share. A friend has already given me a few Japanese anemones and has more.

I try to repay by helping people in their gardens, either doing a design or in the bed preparation and planting. One of these days I will live in a place long enough to share out my own garden's abundance.

Leaving an old garden is like leaving a good friend. Seeing my old garden in Austin this past weekend, I remembered when I all that was there was grass and an out of control cherry laurel. Now things I planted are in their maturity, providing an abundance of bloom and color.

11697. judithathome - 10/4/2001 11:25:08 AM

I envy you the 50 hostas...mine are flagging and look puny.

11698. glendajean - 10/4/2001 11:26:22 AM

Hostas in Texas, particularly after the summer you had, should look a little puny right now. They hate the kind of heat you experience, and it is the end of the season.

11699. thoughtful - 10/4/2001 11:31:05 AM

I have good news and bad. The good news is the perennial ageratum that I got this spring from a friend's mother seems to be thriving and is blooming now...looks very much like the ageratums I knew except they are much taller...about 20" high.

The bad news, Denny the dendrobium has a shoot with blossoms on it...one fell off and I pulled another off as it started looking shriveled and wrinkled and the stem of the blossom was turning yellow. There are still 2 blossoms on the stem but one is starting to look wimpy and none have ever opened. Dang! This was to be the end of my year-long wait ...he was done blooming before I bought him so I've never seen his flower. Drat! I hope he makes it. Any well wishes for Denny and his blossoms would be most appreciated.

11700. judithathome - 10/4/2001 11:33:57 AM

Thoughtful, this is almost freakish...as I was watering MY orchid yesterday, I was wondering how Denny was doing! Good wishes heading his way from my little guy, who has yet to bloom since he entered this house.

11701. judithathome - 10/4/2001 11:34:20 AM

(His name is Whitey Boy)

11702. glendajean - 10/4/2001 11:35:04 AM

Thoughtful -- I have a couple of patches where the perennial ageratums bloomed this year, a nice surprise. In both places they bloomed in places or corners that I haven't done any work. I am afraid I would have pulled them out, thinking they were weeds. Mine are about that high, too.

11703. thoughtful - 10/4/2001 12:03:13 PM

Thanks J@h and Denny sends well wishes to Whitey Boy too.

GJ, my friend's mother said they do grow like weeds and are very tolerant of lots of things...perfect for my roadside rock garden. I have to do some fixing this fall though...one section used to be lush with pachysandra which has long since faded out. I have more growing over the other place where the house will be torn down so will transplant them. Then my day lily bed seems to be really unhappy...hadn't touched it since we moved in 20+ years ago so that needs refreshing. Then I would like to put in the black-eyed susans on the top as they add a lot of color quickly for a long time in the summer. The rock cotoneaster I planted this spring seems to have lasted through the first summer so I hope it keeps growing.

11704. thoughtful - 10/4/2001 12:03:59 PM

Then I had a plant that I wasn't sure what it was and left it....turned out to be a sedum which is tall and blooming nicely now...the bees love it.

11705. thoughtful - 10/4/2001 12:08:00 PM

If I can post another ARRGGGGH!

We had the oil tank pulled out yesterday and the fire marshall came to inspect it and said, oh it was an XX tank...you didn't need to pull that one out of the ground. Those are fine. Thank you very much, $2200 later! No one ever said there were any tanks that would be ok...no one even hinted at it. ARRGGHH!

The worst part is the fingerleaf maple or whatever you call it on top lost some branches when they struggled to pull it out, and then when they put it back, they didn't sink it deep enough and the tree wasn't put back in the hole straight so it has a definite list to it. I got a feeling it ain't going to make it. Hubby's going to try to add more soil to the top, and I'll prune it and water well, but I expect it will be necessary and $$$$ to replace it next spring.

11707. glendajean - 10/5/2001 2:38:10 PM

Cold rain has hit town.

I spotted several splotches of orange among the trees the last few days as I walked the dog.

Our first frost is supposed to hit this weekend. Goodbye sweet tomatoes.

11708. judithathome - 10/5/2001 2:49:48 PM

I am soooo looking forward to this weekend; I get to eat whatever I want for 2 whole days. It's part of the diet and is supposed to allow you to give into any cravings you might be experiencing and also, to give a slight boost to your metabolism.

But the strangest thing is, I'm eating so well, I only have one or two actual cravings and they are tied to fat, I think...I want cheese and peanut butter. I don't plan to go nuts or anything but when I read the word "potato", I thought hmmmmm...THAT sounds good!

11709. ronski - 10/7/2001 11:54:53 AM

38 degrees F. last night. Plenty of color around. I took in some of the orchids and such yesterday, but left others outside and they did fine. The potato vine wilted, however.

Tonight all must come inside for good, because we will get a frost, if not an actual freeze. And they say some showers are possible, turning into snow flurries. Last year, we had wet snow showers on this date.

11710. ronski - 10/7/2001 12:07:05 PM

It is snowing/sleeting a bit in upstate NY and Western NY and PA, right now, according the radar.

11711. ronski - 10/7/2001 12:07:37 PM

to the radar.

11712. ronski - 10/7/2001 12:12:21 PM

My partner's looking at the new Jeep Liberty and the GMC Envoy. He needs something with other than front-wheel drive to get up our driveway in the winter. Anybody know anything about these cars?

11713. arkymalarky - 10/7/2001 1:09:29 PM

Get a Subaru Outback.

11714. ronski - 10/7/2001 1:41:38 PM

I did.

But he wants something different.

11715. arkymalarky - 10/7/2001 1:44:06 PM

Oh, really? How do you like it? It's the only SUV I would be interested in. The others are too common around here, and I really like the looks of the Outback.

11716. arkymalarky - 10/7/2001 1:45:44 PM

One that's neat and several people I know who have one really like is the Toyota Four-runner (?) (can't remember if that's what it's called)

11717. ronski - 10/7/2001 1:50:11 PM

I love it. Last year, there was a rush hour snowstorm that closed a major road in New Jersey. The Outback, and other all-wheel drive vehicles, managed to weave around the stalled semis, front-wheel drive sedans, and all the jeeps and other SUV's that have only four-wheel-drive. I mean, I just got through, because eventually, the road was blocked entirely. But I was driving around all these stalled SUVs and felt very lucky.

It is not as high off the ground as say a Jeep Grand Cherokee, so if the snow if deeper than a foot, the Suburu doesn't do so well. But that's pretty rare.

It's comfortable, handing is okay, and reliability seems pretty good too. The traction is very good on plain old wet roads too.

11718. arkymalarky - 10/7/2001 1:57:58 PM

People with SUVs have delusions about what they can do, and since they're so popular on these AR roads, they're always having to be bailed out in ice storms. We have friends who had a little bitty Subaru that could go over anything, though. I hated riding in it, but they did come to our rescue in a big snow one year.

11719. AuNaturel - 10/7/2001 2:34:10 PM

"But he wants something different"

Don't get the Suzuki Vitara. The car sucks in the repairs department. Often and expensive. I have a Suzuki Sidekick with 200K miles on it.

This was the paved road to our trailer in the mountains after a major rain storm.

Very dependable and surprizing off road ability. 90% of the parts are interchangable with a Geo Tracker. The 4 door Sidekick is an excellent choice for a family. I still have the two door because I am obssesed with having a ragtop.

I used to have a Samurai but got rid of it. Incredible off road but sucks on the freeway.

11720. AuNaturel - 10/7/2001 2:39:44 PM

One of the best snow cars I ever drove was the VW Beetle. The old, rear engine air cooled style, not the new one. Light weight enough to drive on sand yet the skinny tires did a good job on snow.

We always put new snow tires with studs on every fall and never got stuck. I guess now-a-days they have to be plastic studs to protect the roadway.

11721. ronski - 10/7/2001 6:32:54 PM

Yeah, I remember that the old VW's did pretty well in the snow with the right tires. You'd kind of expect a German car to do well in the snow. To get down to Garmisch and back.

11722. judithathome - 10/7/2001 6:37:54 PM

To get down to Garmisch and back.

To say nothing of Partenkirchen.

11723. ronski - 10/7/2001 6:39:44 PM

Two for the price of one!

11724. ronski - 10/7/2001 8:20:27 PM

I just bloomed an orchid very similar to the above. It is a cultivar of Lc. Mini Purple, a very easy "mini-cat," which I would recommend to people wanting to get started.

And my sympathy about Denny. I find dendrobiums harder than they are purported to be.

11725. ronski - 10/7/2001 11:02:19 PM

By the way, I am going to get a kitten at my vet who needs a home, tomorrow. To add to the two we have, since we have buried two since last summer.

Please, somebody, stop me before I do this!

No, please don't. I've already hugged him, and he is a cutey. Black and white, a Tuxedo cat.

11726. thoughtful - 10/8/2001 9:32:34 AM

Ronski, congrats on the bloom and the new family member and thanks for the thoughts on Denny....the 2 blossoms left both unopened...one is definitely drooping and the other is showing signs of weakening. So close yet so far. Dang.

11727. ronski - 10/8/2001 9:37:18 AM

Btw, the orchid above is available from the site below. It's worth a scroll down their list, as they have a few pretty pictures. I have a couple of others on their list.

Link

11728. thoughtful - 10/8/2001 5:22:57 PM

We made pesto last night in anticipation of frost. Came out yummy. Also picked all tomatoes with a slight blush and then covered the plants with plastic. Tonight's supposed to be the worst and then a warm up again...maybe we can keep those suckers going for another week.
?

11729. ronski - 10/8/2001 7:26:32 PM

I'm sitting with the cutest black and white kitty on my lap. We're both purring away.

My older cat (male) seems not much interested in him, but the other, a fairly young female, is quite hostile. I don't know if this is going to work out. I can take him back if it doesn't, and I'm sure they would find him another home. But he's really the nicest little guy. With beautiful brown eyes.

11730. Absensia - 10/8/2001 7:31:16 PM

Ohh, Ronski,
Your description makes me smile so much. It will just take a little while for them to get adjusted. Females do like to be in charge and I bet you didn't ask her first. Just give her lots of hugs too. Though I know you know that!

11731. glendajean - 10/9/2001 11:36:49 AM

Congrats, Ronski.

There is no easy way to introduce a new cat to the old group. Some cats reach out with open paws and others are quite hostile.

I have three, two females and one male. The male is the love kitty and he is genuinely fond of both girls. The females cannot stand each other, went through a period of hissing and groaning, and now have some kind of cold war thing going on, acting as if they don't see the other. Or one leaves the room if the other enters it.

11732. theDiva - 10/9/2001 11:40:49 AM

"I have three, two females and one male. The male is the love kitty and he is genuinely fond of both girls. The females cannot stand each other, went through a period of hissing and groaning, and now have some kind of cold war thing going on, acting as if they don't see the other. Or one leaves the room if the other enters it."

Sigh

This reminds me of old times with Bubb and Niner.

11733. glendajean - 10/9/2001 11:42:51 AM

It was a gardening weekend for me.

Saturday, I went with a friend to a trio of the more expensive nurseries, located in the northern suburb of Indy. She was looking for evergreens and foundation plantings for a new addition to her house. We bought inkberry hollies and Blue Mountain boxwoods. The average price was $50 per plant.

At one of them, I found the only cheap thing, quite healthy catmints (neptia?) marked down for $2.50 each. I got three, but when I went to check out, the clerk told me she would give a lot of them for $1 a piece. I bought 20, giving 6 to neighbors. Such a deal. They were left over from a landscape project for one of the Pacers (local pro basketball team).

11734. glendajean - 10/9/2001 11:47:27 AM

Monday, I helped a neighbor dig up and move 4 boxwoods. Her family is creating an addition and so we moved the plants to temporary locations for the next year.

And most of the day I planted in my garden. Some other plant specials I got this weekend included pink coreopsis or tickweed in huge pots, regular and garlic chives for 50 cents each, a mound of spiky blue fescue, and a couple of the hardy hibiscus that will probably go in the backyard where their 10 inch gaudy blooms will be far away enough from the house to add color, but not overwhelm everything else.

I also planted dianthus, sage and hardy begonias that I had gotten earlier but had not yet planted. So one of my beds is now ready for the fall. I will want to add thyme to it, but probably not till spring.

11735. bubbaette - 10/9/2001 12:15:41 PM

We got frost last night. I don't remember it ever frosting this early in October in my part of Va. before. We are in for a BAD winter, I fear.

The worst of it is that I didn't get my house plants back indoors nor did I pick the English peas or red jalpenos after returning from vacation. Hope they're not ruint.

On the other hand, I did get my car washed and waxed and cleaned, vacumed and the carpets spot cleaned. My darling, but certifiably whackaloon, husband came back from vacation and promptly started dismantling the wall between the living room and den on Monday so that now the house is covered in a layer of plaster dust.

Sigh.

11736. glendajean - 10/9/2001 12:17:31 PM

Out in the front yard, in my less formal area close to the street, I planted Black-eyed Susans that a neighbor had divided and given me, a dwarf burning bush, and beautyberry that I had bought for half-price. It has purple berries. I also planted a cotoneaster that a neighbor gave me.

My muscles are bit sore, but I was in garden bliss for a day.

11737. glendajean - 10/9/2001 12:18:24 PM

Bubbaette -- hope you had good vacation.

11738. theDiva - 10/9/2001 12:19:04 PM

well, I finally pulled out the purple buddleia. The blooms were pretty and I liked watching the butterflies land on it, but the plant was entirely too sprawly-ugly for me.

What's he planning on doing, Bubb?

11739. theDiva - 10/9/2001 12:19:36 PM

glenda

you was a gardnin somebody yesterday.

11740. glendajean - 10/9/2001 12:20:42 PM

Diva, if you cut it back to the ground in early spring, buddleia looks better than just letting it get bigger and bigger, and leggier. It is one of those shrubs that severe pruning is the best choice.

11741. theDiva - 10/9/2001 12:22:08 PM

Yes, I remember your telling me that and I wish I'd done it. The damned thing was so big that I just said to hell with it. Funny thing...the root was terribly fragrant.

11742. glendajean - 10/9/2001 12:27:10 PM

Sunday was the Feast of St. Francis, where in the Episcopal Church the priests bless the animals. I expect Franklin will be on his best behavior from now on.

11743. bubbaette - 10/9/2001 12:27:35 PM

We have an "eat in" kitchen that's really too small to eat in. Plus there's very little counter space. So we're knocking a hole btwn the kitchen and the den and putting in cabinets with counters and a built in double oven on the wall where the kitchen table currently resides. There will be a bar on the other side of the counter in the den which will now become our dining room and the itty bitty dining room on the front of the house will be an office.

I wanted to get a loan and do everything at oncet. The love of my life wanted to do the cabinets and oven on one side of the room one year, the cabinets on the other side of the room the next year, and linoleum for the kitchen and utility the year after that. After seeing what a mess it was just from knocking the hole in the wall yesterday and how much clean up time it took just to get to the point where I could cook dinner, muh darlin has capitulated and agreed that I will become a chronically grumpy woman if the kitchen is torn up for three years running.

11744. theDiva - 10/9/2001 12:30:10 PM

glenda

we can hope.

bubb

well, it sounds like it'll be really nice once it's done. I'm glad he's come around to your way of thinking/

11745. glendajean - 10/9/2001 12:31:25 PM

So will he after 3 months. Nothing like having perpetual renovation going on.

Tell him to put you up in the South of France while the work is being done.

11746. bubbaette - 10/9/2001 12:51:33 PM

I had suggested hiring a contractor next Spring and then leaving for a two week vacation to come home to a rennovated kitchen. But a testosterone condition prevents him from hiring someone to do something he can do himself, given the time. He did relent and agree to get my brother (a carpenter) to help out via a barter arrangement. Mike will do the mechanical work on bro's boat and bro will help install our new kitchen.

11747. thoughtful - 10/9/2001 2:29:25 PM

ronski, no easy way to introduce cats...but they will settle it for themselve. Friend of mother couldn't deny a stray except that the fighting with a current resident made her start thinking about finding it a new home....when suddenly, the cats settled their differences and became best buds. go figure.

11748. thoughtful - 10/9/2001 2:34:33 PM

gj, you planting machine, I wish I could have you over to straighten out my yard. I'd work you from sun up to sun down.....then set out big lights so you could work til midnight!

We were going to move the pachysandra this weekend, but then the internet said better to move it in the spring and it was really cold and windy anyway....

We still have to redo the day lily bed though. No excuses.

Our tomatoes bought it last night...time to pull the stakes.

11749. thoughtful - 10/9/2001 2:38:01 PM

bbbtt, sounds like a great remodel job. Plaster is a total mess and gets into everything, but once the job is done, it's well worth it. I remember when the ceiling was repaired in the LR...even the slightest bit of a ledge...like a drawer cracked open 1/16 of an inch....had a high pile of the finest plaster dust on it. Amazing.

That barter thing sounds like a great solution, and the thing is doing it yourself, you know it'll come out the way you want.

11750. glendajean - 10/9/2001 3:20:02 PM

Thoughtful -- As long as you fed me and gave a cup of hot tea at the end of the day, I would gladly work in your garden.

Our temps yesterday were in the 60s -- perfect weather to plant. The ground is moist and pliable, and none of the plants are stressed by heat. And the giant stop watch one feels during the spring when EVERYTHING has to be done now is not there. Falls are perfect for garden work, bed preparation and perennial, bush and tree planting.

I also took English ivy cuttings from the neighbor who I helped with the boxwoods, and planted plugs around my giant sweet gum tree. There will be an oval shaped space around the treebase that I would like filled with ground cover. It will be my experiement for next spring.

I still have to take cuttings from my viburnams to see if I can get new plants out of them.

And I have to divide some daylillies and put the extras out by the street in the front yard.

11751. thoughtful - 10/9/2001 4:36:25 PM

Wow a cup of tea and a hot meal? You work cheap gj. Such a deal! When you saw the condition of the old rock garden though, I think you'd think twice.

We moved the lace leaf maple tree so they could get the oil tank out from underneath it. Hubby's been watering it and we both have our fingers crossed that it will make it..I'd hate to have to replace it.

11752. ronski - 10/9/2001 4:44:43 PM

It got down just a bit below 29 degrees F. last night. Our first real frost, but not a true freeze. The cold didn't last long enough for that. The color is getting nice.

11753. Jenerator - 10/9/2001 9:00:32 PM

Judith,

You asked me about airport security...At check-in, I was asked if I was carrying any sharp objects such as razors or tweezers (look out, a hijacker might tweeze you to death!) and I mentioned that I was carrying a pen. She asked to see it, and it passed. At the actual security check point, all of my carry-ons were searched, and I was wanded in addition to passing through the metal detector. There were policemen, national guardsmen, undercover police, snd airport security everywhere.

There were lines like you wouldn't believe, too.

11754. thoughtful - 10/10/2001 8:55:03 AM

It's over. I cut the branch with the dead blossoms off of Denny. They never opened. I ripped one apart though and it looked like it would have been beautiful. Some white petals and some magenta ones.
:-(

Now I'll have to keep him going for another year...maybe next year?

11755. judithathome - 10/10/2001 10:22:17 AM

Thanks, Jen...we're arriving early and with books to read. But I'm leaving my sterling silver pen at home and taking a cheap ballpoint.

Does anyone have a recipe for scallion pancakes?

11756. judithathome - 10/10/2001 10:23:06 AM

Sorry about Denny, thoughtful...WhiteyBoy sends condolences.

11757. thoughtful - 10/10/2001 10:28:44 AM

Thanks to WhiteyBoy, and may the force that through the green fuse drives the flower be with him.

11758. thoughtful - 10/10/2001 10:30:01 AM

You mean like take a bunch of scallions and drive over them a few times with the car and voila...scallion pancakes?

Never heard of them....though we do put onion in our potato pancakes.

11759. judithathome - 10/10/2001 10:34:49 AM

Someone mentioned having them at a Chinese restaurant with some sort of sour cream or yogurt sauce...just wondering if it's more entailed than chopping scallions into pancake batter.

11760. theDiva - 10/10/2001 10:37:52 AM

my God, that sounds good. Scallion pancakes, not just dropping scallions into pancake batter, that is.

Monday I roasted pork loin with Yukon gold potatos, olive oil, fresh sage, and garlic. MmmmmMMMM!

11761. ScottLoar - 10/10/2001 10:40:32 AM

How to Care for Orchids (not addressed to anyone in particular but to everyone who might find it interesting)

1)Know what particular conditions your orchid needs to thrive by correctly referencing it and reading up on it;
2)Be sure to regularly fertilize between bloomings;
3)Be sure to clean away the dead root matter usually every other year (but not always as some species' roots cannot bear disturbance)
4)Attend to the plant every third day or so as orchids under household conditions need more attention than the usual household plant (and note that in the summer even in temperate climates most potted orchids thrive outside);
5)Avoid well-intentioned but general advice, especially that by word-of-mouth. Instead, follow the advice of reference books until you have gained enough experience to discriminate between specie and can give particularlized attention; then, chat up with others to swap experience.

11762. ScottLoar - 10/10/2001 10:43:03 AM

No, they are not actually "pancakes" as Westerners especially Americans know the word for the pancake is not light and fluffy but light and flaky. The confusion stems from the translation of the Chinese word "bing" meaning a flattish, cake or pancake either sweet or salty. Chinese do not eat sour cream or yoghurt as dairy products are traditionally unknown to the culture.

11763. theDiva - 10/10/2001 10:44:58 AM

which reminds me (thank you, Scott.)

I had some fabulous blueberry blintzes when I went home last week.

11764. judithathome - 10/10/2001 11:01:41 AM

Well, someone suggested the dish was more Indian but it was served at a Chinese restaurant. I've had things at a Chinese restaurant that were in no way Chinese on occassion and I suspect this was that sort of "fusion" thing.

11765. ScottLoar - 10/10/2001 11:52:46 AM

No, it is called tsung-you bing, literally "scallion-oil pancakes", and is best from northern China. It is not Indian, it is not a fusion thing, and the Chinese would never serve them with yoghurt or sour cream which are not only foreign but contrary to their tastes. You can get such tsung-you bing in some restaurants in Hong Kong or Shanghai but the taste and especially the texture is inferior to that of northern China.

11766. judithathome - 10/10/2001 11:56:35 AM

Well, Scott, thank you for expanding on that but since there is little chance of me ever going to Northern China or Hong Kong, I will have to be content with eating it in a place where they feel free to bastardize it with a forbidden sauce.

11767. ScottLoar - 10/10/2001 12:03:11 PM

Judithathome, I don't give a goddamned how anybody chooses to bastardize them, had thought correct information might be appreciated (I should have known from past experience in this forum that would not be the case), and would have volunteered the recipe but to what purpose? So, continue eating Indian-fusion scallion pancakes with yoghurt and leave aside anything I contributed to understanding or appreciation.

11768. thoughtful - 10/10/2001 12:05:35 PM

J@H, try this

11769. thoughtful - 10/10/2001 12:08:07 PM

or this

11770. judithathome - 10/10/2001 12:11:46 PM

Jeez, you are such a touchy thing...I have never eaten the damned things, Scott. I asked if anyone had a recipe and you, rather than say no or give the info that they are indeed Chinese, chose to imply it wouldn't be possible to enjoy them anywhere but in China.

You have a lot of nerve acting as though you are not appreciated in this thread...people love hearing about your expertise in food matters but sometimes you leave the impression that we are just philistines stumbling around unable to appreciate the finer things in life.

I am sorry if I was snippy but I got the impression from your post that you were condescending and it irritated me. Correct information IS appreciated but I doubt now I will ever entertain even the idea of eating them because it will remind me of this little snit.

11771. judithathome - 10/10/2001 12:15:48 PM

Thanks, thoughtful...

11772. ScottLoar - 10/10/2001 12:21:05 PM

Judithathome;

I don't care if you ever eat them, in China or outside China. And by the way, the recipes posted for your enlightenment are all Korean, so follow them faithfully and you're still not getting tsung-you bing but a Korean adaption. Have them with sour cream, soysauce, or that sweet sauce people like to lather over everything remotely Chinese. Why in the hell should I care? Advice is wasted.

11773. judithathome - 10/10/2001 12:28:29 PM

I think I'll just wait til I get to Hawaii and have my Chinese sister-in-law suggest a good place to find some or maybe she will even make them for me.

And for your information, I never eat sweet and sour sauce on anything.

11774. judithathome - 10/10/2001 12:29:47 PM

This was your advice:

You can get such tsung-you bing in some restaurants in Hong Kong or Shanghai but the taste and especially the texture is inferior to that of northern China.

Not wasted but impractical.

11775. theDiva - 10/10/2001 12:36:47 PM

what about that second recipe thoughtful posted? They seem similar in preparation technique and recipe composition to these very good corn and red pepper fritters, the recipe for which I have from Pierre Franey of NY Times fame.

11776. judithathome - 10/10/2001 12:42:55 PM

Corn fritters sound very "fallish", don't they?

11777. ScottLoar - 10/10/2001 12:45:50 PM

Judithathome;

Not impractical. The bulk of restaurants in the US will be run by persons from Hong Kong, Shanghai or Taiwan and so the tsung-you bing will tend to be oily, overcooked, and dense. If the cooks come from northern China the tsung-you bing will be almost dry, light and flaky. Why? Because the origins come from northern China and, too, the way to get a flaky, light cake is particular. My wife makes a very good tsung-you bing as learned from her mother yet all - I mean all - her Chinese-born friends cannot duplicate the texture or taste and neither can most restaurants. Suggesting that Chinese know how to make this is as wrong as suggesting that all Americans can make a flaky pie crust. It just ain't so, but if a person can't appreciate a flaky pie crust or it doesn't matter to them then what the hell? A rubbery, oily, dense pie crust for them will do. Why improve? Just like many of the discussions here and elsewhere, it is useless to argue against beliefs and tastes strongly held.

11778. judithathome - 10/10/2001 12:52:01 PM

Scott, I eat only the flakiest and best pie crust around because that is what my husband makes.

I know not every Chinese can make excellent pancakes.

And I whole heartedly agree with your last statement. It works both ways...and now I am going to cease my arguing.

11779. Jenerator - 10/10/2001 12:55:45 PM

Scott,

Do you like tiramisu? I know it's not Chinese, I'm just curious.

11780. judithathome - 10/10/2001 1:02:00 PM

Jen...did you see anyone using a cane board the plane?

11781. Jenerator - 10/10/2001 1:06:23 PM

Actually I did; however, it was stored once he was on the plane. The man was at least 85 years old.

11782. judithathome - 10/10/2001 1:15:20 PM

Well, I'm gonna use that as an excuse to leave mine at home. Keoni always wants me to take it because I might need it but I haven't needed it for over 9 months and don't plan to need it any time soon.

11783. judithathome - 10/10/2001 1:16:17 PM

Maybe to be concilatory to him, I'll have him put it in his golf bag, which we check anyhow.

11784. Jenerator - 10/10/2001 1:22:28 PM

That would be the best way to go. Also, bring snacks. We weren't fed on the 3 1/2 hour flight for security reasons.

11785. ScottLoar - 10/10/2001 1:37:26 PM

Jenerator, I do occasionally have tiramisu. And I sure don't know how to prepare it.

11786. judithathome - 10/10/2001 1:38:58 PM

Jen...they are feeding people on the 8 hour flight to Hawaii. But we'll probably bring some stuff, anyhow.

11787. judithathome - 10/10/2001 1:51:24 PM

I just posted a basic Tiramisu recipe in the Recipe section.

11788. Jenerator - 10/10/2001 2:01:55 PM

I made a hazelnut tiramisu for the friends I stayed with while in San Diego, and it was divine. My hubby thinks I should fulfill my vocational fantasy of becoming a dessert chef. Who knows, maybe I'll pursue that. For now, I just love making sweets for family and friends, it's very satisfying.

I'll post the recipe when I get home (I'm at Marsha's and we're about to have lunch...smoked gouda on crackled wheat bread, sliced tomatoes and a good old fashioned Kemper Black Cherry Soda!)

11789. Frankster - 10/10/2001 2:49:14 PM

Hey, guys!

I'm going to do it!

Damn it, I'm going to do it!

To make a very,very long story short ( Ms No is the only one in here I've actually talked to about this situation ), the area which I cleared some three years ago in this complex to plant a lawn, which included all my weekends and all spare time I had during one particular five week period to remove a stubborn old pepper tree root without one neighbor lifting a finger to help, will today be embellished with a new nine foot Jacaranda tree I just purchased last night.

What makes this situation a bit unique is that I will plant it approximately three feet from a Jacaranda "tree" the back neighbor ( An incredible moron, by the way ) planted on this lawn about a month ago while I was at work one day.

Why would I do that ? Well, the moron's tree has never been pruned, so what one has in the MIDDLE of this carefully groomed lawn -- an area, let me repeat, in which I singlehandily removed the old pepper tree root, along with tilling, sifting and amending a two foot layer of this lot with good topsoil and compost which had previously been primarily nothing more than clay and rock -- is basically a bush, not a tree. He won't prune it, claiming it doesn't require pruning. The thing is an eight foot monstrosity of "shooters" or "suckers" and in no way does it resemble a tree.
I've tried talking to him about pruning it properly, even to the point of walking him over to the mall next door and pointing out how all of its Jacaranda trees are single trunk, but it just goes one ear and out the other. Could I tell y'all stories about this ditz.

Continued:

11790. Frankster - 10/10/2001 2:50:37 PM

He originally had it off to the side, but a gas line leak two months ago prompted a relocation of it to a barrel for a week. You can imagine my shock upon arriving from work one evening to find it planted right in the middle of this lawn without him never having said a thing about his intentions to me previously. In one previous conversation with him three months ago before he had planted it there, I had mentioned that if I were to ever plant a tree in tha area, it would be of good stock and off center for effect, as well as to help create a canopy over the main lawn. Never did I imagine that this idiot would plant his bush in the middle of this lot. Never. I'm going to put my time, effort and money, so some moron can come along and plant a bush -- in the center of it !? Even the other neighbors are asking why he placed it in the center.

If he decides to involve the owner in this, I will kindly remind him and the owner that it is I who have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars in equipment, yard tools, topsoil, plants, expensive grass seed, etc., but more importantly, I am the who maintains the yard 99 percent of the time in what was originally agreed upon that the maintenance would be equally shared among everyone here...I've built a room where the tools ( lawnmower, weedeater,etc) are accessible to everyone in the complex so they can use them at their leisure, but they won't lift a finger, except to occasionally water the lawn.

Okay, I better get started. Off to lunch, and then it's shovel time. Wish me luck.

11791. theDiva - 10/10/2001 2:53:07 PM

Jen

I've been meaning to e-mail you, and now I can no longer access my Yahoo account. Forgive me, I am not ignoring you! Give Marsha a hug for me, will you?

Frankie

hoo boy. Hugs for you, too.

11792. Frankster - 10/10/2001 4:58:57 PM

The Frankster goes off to lunch, and returns.

Goes into garage to retrieve shovel, pic, digging pole, tarp, and spade.

Goes into restroom and applies some sunscreen for his afternoon's work.

Begins to cut out squares in the sod for a few minutes and hears what sound like car keys emitting from the front door area, and intially ignores them thinking it was the neighbor's kids.

Looks up to find a young attractive woman with a puzzled look on her face. "Well, aren't we doing lunch today ?" she inquires.

They talk about an obvious mix-up agree to meet in 45 minutes for lunch as she nixes a dinner suggestion for later that evening.

Let's see, a lunch date with an attractive young woman friend or planting a Jacaranda tree this afternoon ?

Which would most any hetero male do in this case ?

Fuck the tree today.

11793. janjon - 10/10/2001 5:07:18 PM

"Which would most any hetero male do in this case ?

Fuck the tree today. "

Well, I have no intention of going there, but there are those here who no doubt will.

11794. Absensia - 10/10/2001 5:16:47 PM

And neither am I. Nope, huh uh, no way.

11795. ScottLoar - 10/10/2001 5:47:27 PM

Jacaranda is a very hard tree native I suppose to Australia where I've seen it and know it is not particularly arousing.

11796. glendajean - 10/10/2001 5:57:32 PM

I thought I was a passionate gardener.

11797. Frankster - 10/10/2001 8:06:28 PM

LOL at you guys!

Yeah, I guess I should have said forget in place of fuckthat darn tree today. Bad choice of words there, sorry.

( Sheesh, one would think the Sex thread would suffice for these guys ? )

Lunch was excellent, by the way, and there is still enough time to plop that tree in today, although, I did want to spring it on this neighbor when he comes home today as he did me that one evening.

Scott,

Jacaranda trees are quite plentiful out here. They produce a beautiful purple flower when in bloom and can be shaped into just about form for shading purposes.
Although, I do wonder whether I should have opted for an evergreen type because Jacarandas aren't that attractive during their dormant stage in the fall and winter. This tree farm offered so-o-o-o many varieties last night.

Okay, back to the work clothes and off to digging.

LOL!

11798. Absensia - 10/10/2001 8:11:58 PM

Ronski,
How is the new kitten doing? Is everyone getting adjusted?

11799. ronski - 10/10/2001 8:36:03 PM

It's a little too soon to tell. I'll report back in a couple of hours.

11800. ronski - 10/10/2001 10:36:34 PM

There seems to be a slight warming of relations. But we are being careful.

11801. Absensia - 10/10/2001 10:46:26 PM

Good, it sounds promising, and it sounds like you are doing the right thing. It is still early. Thanks.

11802. judithathome - 10/11/2001 10:39:10 AM

We made the trek to Central Market yesterday in late afternoon...I'm so glad we didn't wait til the evening because horrible storms blew in; we missed Asleep At The Wheel and another band and free BBQ but who cares? We weren't hailed on, either.

That store is just as Glendajean said: Nirvana for foodists! We came home with all sorts of goodies: some raspberry/ginger salad dressing, salty dried plums, cranberry encased Stilton cheese, dried squid, asparagus broccoli, little cups of peach gel, blackcurrant preserves, freshly ground peanut butter, sweet German smoked sausage, and a bunch of things I'm forgetting...oh, nashi (asian pears) and edamame, too.

Like the Terminator or MacArthur, we WILL be back!

11803. ronski - 10/11/2001 10:42:07 AM

At the end of the evening, we sat with the two grownup cats in our little den, with the kitten on my chest. The older cats just stared at the kitten, but I got the sense they are getting to understand that he is a permanent addition to the family, and that we do not wish to see any trouble.

11804. glendajean - 10/11/2001 10:47:47 AM

Ronski -- is there an alpha cat in the bunch?

Judith -- I remember the first time I went to Central Market, I stared at a wall of honeys, each from different parts of the world, or made from bees who pollinated specific flowers. Very entertaining.

11805. ronski - 10/11/2001 10:49:27 AM

glenda,

Not really. There have always been shifting alliances among the cats of our household.

Very Balkan.

11806. glendajean - 10/11/2001 10:52:58 AM

When we got our two youngest cats, I thought Glenda, the old cranky queen, would put them in their place as she has done all other cats, dogs and people.

Suprisingly, Chloe, the shy, skittish Tortie, pretty much stood up to her at every stand. Glenda actually begrudgingly defers to Chloe.

They ignore each other for the most part.

11807. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 12:41:41 PM

I hired a cleaning woman yesterday and I feel like a pig.

On one hand, there is no logic to this kind of self-condemnation : I am providing a hard-working, immigrant woman who has a daughter with Down Syndrome with a job. She is actually grateful for the work. Now she can give up an exhausting job that takes her far from home for something close by. Therefore, Im really a good person. It's a reciprocal arrangement, one based on mutual need: I provide her with easier work and I have a cleaner apartment in return. Everyone is happy.

Everyone is not happy. Especially if you are Barbara Ehrenreich. I remember reading her argument against having a cleaning woman back in Slate last year and have felt morally chastised ever since for even entertaining the issue. I felt weak, morally irresolute, irresponsible and lazee.

What I didn't prepare to feel was humiliated.

She showed up at the door with her teenage daughter as her translator, wearing an institutional, foam green dress, her cleaning woman uniform. I can't say why exactly, but the sight of her in this dress somehow made me ashamed, apologetic and embarrassed. Perhaps if she had come in jeans with a ratty sweatshirt, I might not have experienced this kind of guilt, but the whole situation underscored her sense of helplessness, the dress serving as a hideous joke, perhaps, on me. You want a cleaning lady stupid? Here is your Cleaning Lady, milady.

I don't expect to be exonerated for feeling like a pig.

11808. judithathome - 10/11/2001 12:47:39 PM

Don't beat yourself up so, Webbie...focus on the fact you are helping her out by providing work closer to her home.

11809. theDiva - 10/11/2001 12:48:25 PM

webby my dearest

Screw Barbara Ehrenreich. Forget the uniform, it's probably much more practical and is the garb of her profession.

The woman is doing an honest day's work and you are giving her an honest day's wage. You're getting a cleaner apartment and more time to spend with Clement, she's getting a shorter commute and a more pleasant situation. Supply and demand, work for wages. It's okay, really.

11810. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 12:53:04 PM

There is another aspect as to why I don't want help.

It's slightly cruel. And worse, selfish.

I don't want to be burdened with another person's misery.

So, when, during our Japanese take-out I fed my son while she vacuumed, she proceeded to tell me about her problems, that her daughter with Down Syndrome is forced to wear a diaper all day at the daycare center she is forced to send her to, that she has developed what I inferred was a urinary tract infection based upon her graphic gesticulations, because they don't change the diaper often enough, I felt that my punishment had truly been meted out correctly.

11811. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 12:53:49 PM

Yeah, I know you two lovebirds, but it still sucks.

11812. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 12:56:36 PM

By the way, is everyone going to just let frank off with 'lunch was excellent' ??

11813. judithathome - 10/11/2001 1:00:07 PM

Well, knowing Frank, it was just lunch and if it was more, he's too much of a gentleman to share the details, anyhow. ;-)

"...just lunch" meaning Frank isn't the type to rush things.

11814. theDiva - 10/11/2001 1:01:42 PM

webs

oh God.

But you do have a point about Frank. What's up with this woman, Frankus?!

11815. bubbaette - 10/11/2001 1:10:15 PM

Webs

It is a quandry, isn't it. On the one hand you're providing someone with work, on the other hand, I would tend to share your feelings of guilt that whoever is cleaning my house for a living probably doesn't have much of a life (unless she's working for herself and gets paid under the table.) On the other hand, I've known a couple of people who have cleaned for a living and have done fairly well for themselvess. I worked at housecleaning for a summer when I was in college and washed windows for side jobs and didn't feel resentful of those who could afford to pay for my help.

But assuming that she's miserable and impoverished, she's in the same plight as many other low-wage workers. The person who takes your order at burger king or the one who rings you up at 7-11 doesn't make a whole bunch more and live lives of plenty -- they're just not in your house.

11816. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 1:44:13 PM

It's a good point, bubba, and it mitigates the guilt a little. In a way, I am not sure if I feel guilty or sorry for myself for being a pig. I haven't really figured it out. Maybe it's the same thing.

On the positive side, (disgusting smirk) I know that she has free housing --she is the wife of our superintendent--and that they have a car, normal things that people have, and that the situation could be far worse. Meaning that there are others, who, although I don't invite them into my home to clean my bathroom, are contending with far more difficult, desperate situations, as Barbara Ehrenreich has pointed out in her many books and articles.

I think one way I can forgive myself is to go ahead and fill out that subscription form to Harper's/i>.

11817. judithathome - 10/11/2001 2:01:03 PM

Oh, do it...you'll love that magazine and in all the years I've subscribed, Barbara has only written two or three articles, tops!;-)

Just had that raspberry/ginger vinaigrette on my salad...definite keeper.

11818. judithathome - 10/11/2001 2:01:35 PM

toys?

11819. bubbaette - 10/11/2001 2:20:23 PM

I think that Ehrenreich had some good points but went to far in that Harper's except. I do think that we tend to be a bit callous toward those on the lower end of the economic scale in this country. On the other hand, I certainly don't think that it's indicative of moral failure to hire a cleaning woman.

My sister here in Richmond has one of those behemoth homes and spends most of every weekend cleaning it. To me it is silly to say that she's a week and immoral woman if she doesn't want to spend all of her limited free time dusting and vacuming when there is an abundance of services available to do that for her. She has money -- she doesn't have liesure. Is it a moral failure to use one to purchase the other? Sounds like a fairly rigid standard against which Ehrenrich would judge her.

11820. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 2:20:52 PM

How do I turn them off, the toys?

Judith, I like BE. If anything, she would be a reason to subscribe. And besides, it's only twelve dollars.

11821. bubbaette - 10/11/2001 2:22:20 PM

I like Harper's, too. You were missing one of the carrat marks before the /i

11822. glendajean - 10/11/2001 2:33:32 PM

On the PBS series about the house in London where the family lived for several weeks under 100 year old conditions, the poor mother was wearing herself out doing all the labor intensive chores necessary to run a house.

They let her get a housekeeper based on the standards from that time, but the poor mother felt so guilty, she ended up firing the housekeeper. It just didn't feel right.

Of course, the housekeeper enjoyed the work and was hurt that she was let go. A lose-lose situation.

11823. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 2:44:25 PM

Bubba, maybe so, but she's the only voice they've got. As it is, no is even listening.

I am sorry that I can't remember so much of the grist of BE's argument as it was so long ago, but it is the feeling of complicity in subjugating another person, one who is already exploited by society, that is the thrust of her argument. By hiring them, we are advocating their subjugation. Ergo, we are pigs.

It's a hardline position, and one that goes against the rational explanation you provide and the argument that it works to benefit them economically as well.

Is your sister morally opposed to hiring a housekeeper or is she of the self reliant variety, the kind that prefers to do the work herself?

11824. ronski - 10/11/2001 2:45:17 PM

Let me get this straight. Giving somebody work is supposed to make you feel guilty?

I can't believe it.

Please, Webfeet, you are doing the right thing. You both benefit from the arrangement.

If anyone wants to address this further, I suppose it should go into another thread.

11825. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 3:03:14 PM

Agreed. I appreciate the feedback, I feel exonerated and less piglike, now let's not indulge this any further.

11826. bubbaette - 10/11/2001 3:04:26 PM

Webbie

She's a perfectionist. She tried Molly Maids, but they didn't move the furniture when they vacume. So maybe she's not the best example.

I don't think that Ehrenrich addresses this argument, or I don't remember, but for me there's another issue: in most families these days, both spouses work. Yet it still seems to be the woman's duty to make sure their abode doesn't suffer from yellow waxy buildup. So there are other options other than doing it all yourself or hiring someone else to do it.

I've seen another sister wrangle for years about her husband's lack of assistance around the house and her kids dropping things on the floor as soon as they hit the door. She was also constantly running to try to keep up with the cooking and the laundry and the cleaning and the kids' homework and baths and constantly frustrated and feeling like she was falling down on the job.

Seems to me that the options (other than hiring help which is no moral failing in my view) are to:
1. kick hubby in the butt to pitch in.
2. assign regular chores to the kids.
3. relax your standards a bit and realize that if you're not breeding typhoid or a fire hazard, maybe the world won't end if the playroom doesn't get picked up every day.
4. order carry-out a night or two a week.

The worst solution is to berate yourself or feel like a pig or a failure because you can't do it all yourself. If your household has two full-time jobs and kids, cut yourself some slack.

11827. thoughtful - 10/11/2001 3:05:13 PM

ronski, I disagree....having a cleaning lady is definitely part of the good life!

Webby, you know how terribly cheap and peasant-like I am. You'd probably be surprised to know I had a cleaning woman for years. Hubby and I just decided we didn't want to spend our weekends cleaning house after working so hard all week. Further, we'd find ourselves cleaning, cooking, shopping etc. all day sat. to prepare for sat. night dinner that by the time the guests arrived, we were too exhausted to enjoy them. Not sensible.

So we had "the girls" come to clean and they didn't do a terrific job, but they were very good and well worth the $$. When we had co. we had time to "play" over the menu, the table, etc. and have energy left to enjoy the guests.

They were disappointed when we let them go. Once hubby retired, part of the cost saving was he was going to be home to clean. So far, he gets a C+. He's great at cleaning when he does it, but he doesn't always get to it. Gotta work on that...or else he's going to pay the girls out of his pension!

11828. Jenerator - 10/11/2001 3:08:51 PM

Vanity Fair<

11829. ronski - 10/11/2001 3:10:01 PM

thoughtful,

I'm probably just jealous since I don't have one at the moment.

And with me around, the house could definitely use one.

11830. bubbaette - 10/11/2001 3:10:41 PM

toys

11831. ronski - 10/11/2001 3:10:48 PM

toys

11832. Jenerator - 10/11/2001 3:13:16 PM

Sorry. I can't read without my glasses, and the frames broke yesterday.

I want some new reading glasses, and need them, but don't want to spend $300. Should I wait till hubby's insurance begins next month, or just fork it out?

11833. judithathome - 10/11/2001 3:16:16 PM

Wait...spend the money you save at DSW.

11834. Jenerator - 10/11/2001 3:20:55 PM

Spoken like a true shoe partner in crime. hubby says if I buy any more *black* shoes I'm dead.

11835. judithathome - 10/11/2001 3:25:24 PM

Hey, he and Keoni have so much in common!

11836. Jenerator - 10/11/2001 3:28:36 PM

He loves stilletos and gives me unlimited buying freedom there.But they're impractical and painful. I bought some Tod loafers in San Diego, he doesn't like them.

11837. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 3:36:42 PM

If thoughtful says it's okay, I am vindicated.

Who am I, Spartacus?

I see no reason to flagellate myself further or revel in this faux liberal guilt.

The essential conflict within myself is that I am an anti-bourgeois bourgeoise. A marxist who enjoys shopping at Pottery Barn. To the scaffold!

11838. bubbaette - 10/11/2001 3:38:35 PM

I hear that the Pottery Barn carries some adorable sterling silver flails! ;-)

11839. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 3:40:57 PM

No, Im thinking more of setting my hair on fire by accidentally rubbing myself against their ersatz victorians sconces...actually, pottery barn sucks.

11840. Webfeet - 10/11/2001 3:42:09 PM

Ah, to purge myself. But if only how/

I must go. The day awaits. The child comes home not 'til late. Adieu.

11841. bubbaette - 10/11/2001 3:43:05 PM

Bye now!

11842. bubbaette - 10/11/2001 3:43:24 PM

(pay later)

11843. Jenerator - 10/11/2001 4:23:11 PM

Wow, wil I have nightmares tonight or what!?

11844. ScottLoar - 10/11/2001 4:39:20 PM

Jenerator, I confess to being a brute who would very much like to see you in stilleto heels. Period.

11845. Jenerator - 10/11/2001 4:47:48 PM

Only if I can feed you tiramisu, too.

11846. ScottLoar - 10/11/2001 4:48:31 PM

You will find me slack-jawed in awe.

11847. Frankster - 10/11/2001 5:12:12 PM

By the way, is everyone going to just let Frank off with 'lunch was excellent' ??

"...just lunch" meaning Frank isn't the type to rush things.

Webbie,

It means I scored some Brownie points in that they were overwhelmed by the view and menu of the place I took them to. Their oohing and awing over the dessert they ordered was very pleasing to these male ears, let me tell you. :-)

Oh. There were two of them, by the way, as the break I needed to shower and change gave the first one the opportunity to go pick up her friend from the nearby university...they're two new girls to the area who have just started working with me.
... They see me as a "sugar daddy" of sorts. I see them as ego strokers and a distant possible investment in the future. ;-)
Neither was old enough to order drinks, by the way ( I can't wait to hear the response for this little fact ).

Judith,

Yep, you've got me pegged. At this age, I don't want to rush into anything, particularly with anyone THAT young, and I generally wait a period of time before I kiss and tell on anyone.

Well, off to lunch. TTFN

11848. Frankster - 10/11/2001 5:14:23 PM

Oh, and by the way, the Jacaranda tree is up and looking good! I had time to put it in after lunch yesterday.

TTFN!

11849. Jenerator - 10/12/2001 11:18:13 AM

I love the syrups and sweets from DaVinci Gourmet.

Angelfive,

If you don't have time to brew up your own concoction of chai tea. their spiced chai tea mix is pretty good.

11850. theDiva - 10/12/2001 11:21:07 AM

"Neither was old enough to order drinks, by the way ( I can't wait to hear the response for this little fact )."

FRANK.

11851. Frankster - 10/12/2001 1:47:16 PM

Deev,

Well, combined they worked out to about 41 years of age. Doesn't that count for something ? If I'm not going to go out that often, and I don't, I should at least make it count for something when I do, right ? ;-)

You want me stay young at heart don't ya ?

11852. theDiva - 10/12/2001 1:47:47 PM

(shaking her head)

11853. Frankster - 10/12/2001 1:49:07 PM

In agreement or disproval ?

11854. theDiva - 10/12/2001 1:49:45 PM

guess.

11855. Frankster - 10/12/2001 1:53:53 PM

I really don't want to go there. :-)

By the way, who's the Gatekeeper nowadays ? I have a friend who wants to sign up, but says she is having trouble doing so. Is there a problem on that front that I am unaware of or is "Kaitlin" pulling my leg ?

11856. janjon - 10/12/2001 1:54:33 PM

a fool and his money are soon parted. "sugar daddy" is the key phrase.

11857. theDiva - 10/12/2001 1:56:38 PM

Jan

school him, please.

Frankie

Ms. No is taking care of it for me, as I can no longer access web-based e-mail.

11858. Frankster - 10/12/2001 2:06:30 PM

Deev,

Thanks. I'll ask her if she is still having trouble signing on.

As far as spending money on someone -- anyone -- for a pleasant, fun, or memorable time, I could care less about parting with it. You only live once after all, right ?

Gotta get. See y'all later!

11859. theDiva - 10/12/2001 2:08:37 PM

see you, babe!

11860. ronski - 10/12/2001 6:39:50 PM

Time for an orchid.

I'm going to order this one, from that site I linked earlier.

11861. Frankster - 10/12/2001 9:14:05 PM

Yes, orchids, with their beautiful color and fragility, can certainly be appealing to yours truly at times, but I just can't get into them as others do. I just don't understand their strong appeal to so many.
... It looks like a flower one would find on an old Star trek episode ready to spray out deadly spores.

... Sorry to all the orchid lovers I might have offended.

11862. angel-five - 10/13/2001 12:52:43 AM

As opposed to, um, tree lovers?

11863. angel-five - 10/13/2001 12:54:22 AM

What's wrong with dating women who aren't old enough to drink? I mean, crippy, no one's asking Frank to actually talk to them or anything.

11864. Frankster - 10/13/2001 1:12:30 AM

LOL @ Angel-five !

I was just about to go outside on this lovely evening to water the lawn and there you are knocking us tree lovers, Angel-five.

And, you're right. Dem youngsters talk a whole different ballgame today.

I actually find myself more attracted to women their mothers' ages than I am to them. Twenty is just wa-a-a-ay too young for me, but it does stroke my ego to have a woman/women that young and attractive not repulsed at my age.

Of late, my eyes have been set on one who is 29, and another who is 40.

SEE, Deev ?

Thanks for the chuckle again.

11865. Frankster - 10/13/2001 1:44:45 AM

Well, I'm going to go out and water the lawn. I like watering it this late to prevent the morning dogs from urinating on too much of a dry lawn in the morning as people take their dogs for their early morning walks. I don't know why they pick up their pooche's number two, but do nothing to discourage their pets from doing their number one's on a neighbor's perfectly manicured lawn ?
I'd like to think that a moist heavily watered lawn is somehow preventing half of the urine burns that might possibly materialize.

I'm going to hate myself in the morning. I just ordered a baseball jersey from MLB.com for almost 80 smackers ... I'll rationalize it as an early birthday or Chritmas present I guess.

Alright, the lawn awaits.

11866. Jenerator - 10/13/2001 11:17:57 AM

As far as spending money on someone -- anyone -- for a pleasant, fun, or memorable time, I could care less about parting with it. You only live once after all, right ?

There's an old expression. Be as gentle as a lamb, but as wise as a serpent.

Be careful Frank. There are a lot of women who will take advantage of your generosity.

11867. judithathome - 10/13/2001 11:26:23 AM

I think Frank might already know that, Jen.

11868. glendajean - 10/13/2001 11:55:37 AM

Good morning all.

We had rain for 3 days. It stopped yesterday, but returned during the night. They're predicting 1-3 inches through tomorrow.

The world here is orange, red, brown and a little green -- full autumn colors.

I officially have enough leaves on my front lawn to start raking them and bagging them. Some I'll use for compost.

11869. ronski - 10/13/2001 12:08:21 PM

Beautiful day here. The mountain in back of our house is showing increasing color, and the place is being invaded by small wren-like birds (I think they are house wrens, or winter wrens, but I'm going to check; there also seem to be some sparrows that are clearly not house sparrows -- we don't get those in the woods -- but may not be tree sparrows either).

It's been dry though, and I have to water today. I hope we get glenda's rain soon, like Sunday night.

11870. bubbaette - 10/13/2001 12:13:27 PM

It's beautiful here, too. I have all the windows open and am waiting for the last load of laundry to dry before I head back outside. On the agenda for today is pulling out the annuals in the flower garden, and pulling up some ill-considered vinca I put in the side beds. It's taken over and snakes its way into the blower for the heat pump. It's outta here.

11871. judithathome - 10/13/2001 12:14:16 PM

It was a dark and stormy night....how Romance Novel of me.

But this morning it is sunny and COLD...I love the cold weather and though I know it won't last the week, I intend to enjoy it today. Boots and sweaters tonight for the play!

11872. bubbaette - 10/13/2001 12:15:42 PM

We've had a couple of nights cool enough for a fire in the fireplace. I enjoy working outdoors on those cool days but they make me a bit melancholy.

11873. arkymalarky - 10/13/2001 12:40:11 PM

Nice for us that it's cool, considering our h/ac is broken again. The guy came and "fixed" it Thursday and it had quit again by that evening, and he hasn't returned our message. He's been really good with us, but this problem's baffled him and it's like the fourth time he's tried to fix it, and it worked for several months (got us through the heat, thank goodness), now is the same problem all over. We've only spent a bit over a hundred dollars trying to get it dealt with, so I'm reluctant to try anyone else right now. This guy's the one who put it in, and it's done really well until this. I'm so glad we got two units instead of one huge one.

11874. Absensia - 10/13/2001 1:15:17 PM

How is the kitten doing, Ronski?

11875. Absensia - 10/13/2001 1:16:41 PM

Or, maybe I should ask how the other cats are doing. Once kittens feel at home, they often just take over!

11876. judithathome - 10/13/2001 1:35:05 PM

Keoni made a batch of Shoyu Chicken last night for the guys at work...he got up at 3am and put it in the oven...I awoke to magnificent aromas in the house but couldn't eat any since he put pineapple in it. (with my blessings...)

11877. Absensia - 10/13/2001 1:37:36 PM

Ohhhhhhh, sounds wonderful.

11878. ronski - 10/13/2001 1:42:13 PM

The kitten is doing fine, though he appears to have a very slight cold (and which I think the older male has caught, but they all have their shots, so we'll just monitor them for now).

We have let the older ones into the "suite" upstairs where the kitten is now residing. They hiss and growl and sniff, but they seem to be getting used to him a bit. We don't let the kitten have the run of the house yet, in part because there are too many hiding places if he gets scared by one of the older ones.

11879. Absensia - 10/13/2001 2:24:25 PM

Sounds like things are going well. I would love to get a kitten, but I'm not sure how the two "thugs" would take to the idea.

11880. Frankster - 10/13/2001 3:00:01 PM

Jen,

Responding in the Sex Thread.

11881. Jenerator - 10/14/2001 5:46:22 PM

I had a pretty strong desire for some chocolate today, so I baked a dark chocolate cake. The middle layer was cherries and drizzled dark chocolate, and for the frosting, I whipped into stiff peaks - two pints of heavy whipping cream - folding it with one cup of melted dark chocolate, 3/4 cup of sugar and a teaspoon of vanilla.

I call it Jen's Fix Cake.

11882. ronski - 10/14/2001 8:24:11 PM

Oh, wow.

There are few things I like as much as chocolate cake iced with whipped cream.

And the cherries, well that reminds me of black forest cake, and that gets the part of my blood that is German flowing furiously.

But I feel no desire to invade the low countries, for some reason.

Maybe it's the nice weather we've been having.

11883. bubbaette - 10/14/2001 10:45:12 PM

The wall between the kitchen and the den is now gone and it's surprising just how large the den really is. It seemed like a much smaller room because it was so closed-in and dark -- so "den" like. Now that the wall is gone I can see all sorts of possiblities.

In recognition of Mike's hard work removing all that plaster and lumber I acceded to his request to make jalapeno poppers. Now I remember why I hate making them -- I cored and seeded those peppers about 7 hours ago and my hands are still burning. Anyone know a remedy for capsacin on skin? Usually I wear rubber gloves when I prepare hot peppers, but they're just to clumsy.

11884. Absensia - 10/14/2001 10:54:33 PM

Bubbetta,

I have never had a problem, but I use a sharp knife and don't touch the seeds at all. I think you could use latex gloves. What about peeling them under running water?

What about milk, don't laugh, on your skin, or a baking soda paste.

11885. bubbaette - 10/14/2001 11:00:41 PM

To make these damned poppers, I cut the stem end off the pepper and slice down the side then use the knife to around the inside to cut the membrane and get the seeds out. I typically have to stick a finger into the pepper to get that core of membrane and seeds out. Then I run water into the pepper to get the rest of the seeds out. I haven't tried latex gloves -- are they less bulky than the standard rubber gloves? At your suggestion I just poured some milk over my hands, but it doesn't seem to help.

11886. Absensia - 10/14/2001 11:08:05 PM

I'm thinking latex like the doctors and dentists use. I assume you scrubbed the area with soap and washed it. So, maybe a paste of baking soda might help. Right now, I'm thinking that maybe it needs to be treated like poison ivy or poison oak.

11887. bubbaette - 10/14/2001 11:21:24 PM

I'll see if I can find latex gloves. I'd thought that the capsacin was carried in an oil on the seeds and membrane, so always wash well with dish deterget after messing with hot peppers with my bare hands. And every time I make poppers I always swear that I'll never do it again. I'll try the baking soda thing.

11888. glendajean - 10/15/2001 11:16:18 AM

Bubbaette -- I use latex painter's gloves when I handle peppers. Hope a remedy works for the burning pain.

11889. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 12:30:02 PM

ronski,

I'd save you a piece, but it is all gone. I had some, my husband ate half of it last night and then he took the rest to work.

However; I will be making cherries flambe tonight.

11890. judithathome - 10/15/2001 12:42:06 PM

I could never understand voluntarily eating something which is strong enough to leave you burning 7 hours later.

11891. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 12:48:11 PM

Are you talking about the cherries flambe or the peppers?

11892. judithathome - 10/15/2001 12:51:09 PM

Peppers...I'm assuming you douse the flames before eating the cherries.

11893. thoughtful - 10/15/2001 3:26:25 PM

I use the latex gloves for many various things, especially craft projects with stain. You can get them for cheap, 10 or 20 pairs or more at a time at Walmart, home depot, places like that.

Hubby's arms are swollen and scabby with black scabs. He was cutting up a fallen pine tree that had a large vine wrapped around it...he was fortunate he didn't get it worse as he was cutting it with the chain saw! Saw dust everywhere.

11894. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 3:26:41 PM

I need some advice. My hubby eats like a moose. He's a big guy, so naturally he can eat more, but he eats EVERYTHING. I made a lasagne last night and he finished it this afternoon, it served 10. I told him that he doesn't have to eat so much because I can always make more, but he basically said that it was so good, why wait? Our grocery bill is enormous.

How do I get him to eat less? If I make smaller meals, he'll go in for a snack later. Either way the food is being consumed at a fast pace. $250 a week minimum is a tad bit high, isn't it ?1

11895. CalGal - 10/15/2001 3:29:14 PM

Jen, you can remind him that his metabolism will probably only be kind to him for five-ten years, tops. And that his appetite will not diminish when his metabolism slows. But in general, there's nothing to do.

11896. thoughtful - 10/15/2001 3:31:21 PM

yikes! Hubby and I average between $35-50 per week on groceries and that includes paper products, laundry products etc. Once in awhile a week's bill might push up to $65 or 70 if we have company coming, but that's it.

Jen, start with smaller plates. Then don't leave leftovers in the fridge, but cut it up in reasonable portions and put it in the freezer. This way he can't wholesale down a tray of lasagne, and it will help train his eye to what a normal portion is.

You say he's big, but is he overweight?

11897. judithathome - 10/15/2001 3:35:07 PM

We spend about $80-$100 a week, including cleaners, dog food, paper products, etc. but most of it is spent on fresh veggies and fruit.

11898. Absensia - 10/15/2001 3:35:28 PM

Jen,
I agree with Thoughtful. And, scale down the amount you make. Cut recipes in half. Serve lots more veggies and salads. And, though you are the dessert queen, don't make them often. Fruit maybe.

11899. CalGal - 10/15/2001 3:38:29 PM

Um, folks. He's a grownup.

11900. judithathome - 10/15/2001 3:41:54 PM

Jen, I agree with CalGal...tell him he'd better learn some control or once his metabolism slows down, he will resemble the Michelin man.

11901. bubbaette - 10/15/2001 3:42:55 PM

Like Judith, we range between $70 and $100 per week for food.

11902. thoughtful - 10/15/2001 3:42:59 PM

Yeah, eating healthier can be more expensive, but not necessarily. I made a "nearly hungarian goulash" last night. Not hungarian, not goulash, but it is vegetarian, tasty and very filling (made with lots of mushrooms and kidney beans) and very inexpensive. Too many indulgences lately have made a vegetarian option preferable. Much lower in calories.

11903. judithathome - 10/15/2001 3:46:51 PM

Last night, we had a Frasier dinner...tossed salad and scrambled eggs. But the tossed salad had some exotic greens and the scrambled eggs had red and green peppers, onions, and crumbled gorgonzola cheese on top!

11904. glendajean - 10/15/2001 3:53:13 PM

Ours is in the $80-100 range, and includes food for 3 cats and a dog. And we're two guys.

I cannot imagine spending that much for weekly groceries.

11905. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 3:57:11 PM

Thanks all. Good advice. I think that the freezer WILL be a deterrent.

11906. thoughtful - 10/15/2001 3:57:26 PM

J@h, weeeeellllll.... if you expect your meals to taste good it will cost more!

Actually my food budget is probably a little understated as I eat lunches at work...cafeteria is subsidized by the co....so dinners at home are more like lunches for me so we probably spend a little less than average. Also, hubby is a fanatic about not throwing out food, so we buy only what we can eat and just about everything goes in the freezer so there's no waste. We toss out very little food. We are also coupon users and, at least according to our grocery slip, save about $500 per year on groceries with coupons and store specials.

11907. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 3:57:44 PM

Oh, he's about 10 pounds overweight.

11908. janjon - 10/15/2001 4:00:35 PM

That cake you described is worth about 10 pounds standing alone. Not to mention the cholesterol.

11909. thoughtful - 10/15/2001 4:02:14 PM

Jen, that's not too bad, but you want to make sure he watches the trend...it's that extra pound showing up every several months that put me into the 20 lb. overweight category. Now I try to be much more diligent about watching that...er....bracket creep. Also, if he keeps his activity level up it shouldn't be a problem. My brother lost 20 lbs. when he got a new job that requires physical activity...which is really good since he's also diabetic.

11910. Frankster - 10/15/2001 4:02:27 PM

I spend anywhere from $300.00 to $400.00 a month on fastfood alone.

It usually starts with eight dollars at the nearby diner every morning, and progresses from there to the nearby deli or sandwich shop.

Shit! There is a news story on at the moment having to do with the last drive-in movie theatre ( The Foothill ) in Azuza on Route 66 closing after 47 years...another slice of Americana in the scrap heap.

11911. theDiva - 10/15/2001 4:04:34 PM

$250 a WEEK?!?!

Good God, what is on your list!? We shop once every two weeks and spend, for the four of us, about $150; but then Greg gets paper products, toiletries, and cleaning products at Wal-Mart for another $60. So that shakes out to what, $105/week?

11912. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 4:05:59 PM

janjon,

I bake desserts for family, friends and charity. I enjoy making them for people and they're not that expensive unless you're making a cheese or cream based product. Perhaps I should hide them from hubby.

11913. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 4:08:08 PM

My husband eats A LOT of meat. We had friends over last Thursday and he bought four T-bones, three packs of country style pork ribs, and four packs of beer brats. (I was pissed.)

11914. judithathome - 10/15/2001 4:10:31 PM

Jen, I hate to sound alarmist but I hope your husband has insurance. Has he had his cholestrol checked recently?

11915. janjon - 10/15/2001 4:11:21 PM

well, don't want to be a cassandra, but Lord - that man is a walking time bomb in terms of heart disease.

How is he with things like double bacon cheeseburgers?

11916. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 4:13:12 PM

He likes dbl bacon cheeseburgers if they have sliced jalapenos.

Ick.

11917. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 4:14:35 PM

It's hard cooking for myself a certain way and then for him.

You'd be proud Janjon, I got him on 2% milk.

11918. rubberducky - 10/15/2001 4:17:43 PM

Rip and i spend around $175 for 2 to 3 weeks of food (depending on how much we eat out), this is after the coupons and the so-called discount cards you get at Kroger and Big Bear and the like. of course this covers 2 guys, a dog, and cat.

11919. janjon - 10/15/2001 4:19:23 PM

well, don't want to prick your bubble, but 2 % is only marginally better than whole when it comes to fat content, etc. It really is skim or nothing. But, kudos for the effort.

Same thing with low fat vs. no fat yoghurts.

Seriously - if he hasn't had comprehensive blood work done, you really ought to demand that he do so. That will either show that he is lucky or it might scare him into making some changes.

11920. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 4:21:09 PM

His insurance kicks in Nov 1st and I've already convinced him to get a complete physical.

11921. theDiva - 10/15/2001 4:23:26 PM

not a minute too soon, right after we got married, Greg had one and found that his cholesterol was through the roof - this, with weight training and running 4x a week and being in otherwise amazing physical shape. He's been on Zocor ever since (made some dietary changes, too) and it's under control.

11922. janjon - 10/15/2001 4:24:07 PM

well, if you can, make sure that the doctor is savvy about things like triglycerites, homocystine, as well as the more usual good HDL and bad LDL cholesterol, etc., and that he orders blood work to measure all of it.

That probably is standard these days, actually.

11923. CalGal - 10/15/2001 4:24:56 PM

Anyone who eats that much, it's probably psychological. Which means he's going to resist change like crazy.

11924. judithathome - 10/15/2001 4:25:12 PM

Keoni eats a lot but his total cholesterol is 175 and his triglycerides are at 113. (Mine are at 88!)

11925. CalGal - 10/15/2001 4:27:12 PM

Remember, though, that cholestrol is largely genetic. Spawn's is at 200, and he's an incredibly active kid whose eating habits are no worse and, in some ways, better than your average 13 year old. But he's got a grandmother dead of atherosclerosis, a dad who had angioplasty despite 10 years of constant exercise and having quit smoking, and two aunts on cholesterol meds even though one doesn't eat red meat at all and the other is a vegetarian.

11926. glendajean - 10/15/2001 4:28:51 PM

Cal -- you're right about resistance to change.

I once read that humility is trying to tell somebody else's dog what to do. I think it could be paraphrased to include husbands of people who post in the Mote.

They're young and they will figure it out -- or not without our handwringing about it.

11927. janjon - 10/15/2001 4:33:21 PM

so, end of discussion, eh, glenda?

11928. CalGal - 10/15/2001 4:36:49 PM

I dunno about "end of discussion", but I do find it odd when people cheerfully discuss means by which one person can control another's behavior.

11929. glendajean - 10/15/2001 4:40:59 PM

No -- Just my own realization how hard it is to tell people what to do in general. Or to give a warning about behavior.

Parents do it all the time to their children. I suppose it is effective. But at some point, one has to figure much of these things out on their own.

As somebody who let his weight get away from them, and who had to work to lose it (and keep it off), I had to decide to to do it. Nobody else could have motivated me to change my behavior.

I agree that we as a country are in the middle of an obesity epidemic (although after a quick trip to Austin a few weekends ago, I think the folk in the midwest are more obese perhaps due to winter inactivity). So I agree with the advice about watching weight early, checking cholesteral, etc.

11930. glendajean - 10/15/2001 4:41:49 PM

...away from him

11931. janjon - 10/15/2001 4:43:45 PM

I was going to say - if you became a "them", you really did let the weight get away from you.

11932. glendajean - 10/15/2001 4:44:58 PM

I must have had a Sybil moment

11933. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 5:15:24 PM

My husband was raised on home-style cooking. Excluding barbecue, when he cooks, it's as though he's in 1946 America...butter...meat...potatoes.

He won't even try Indian food, which is one of my favorites.

I think that he was spoiled as a child and is used to being thin.

11934. CalGal - 10/15/2001 5:18:49 PM

Yes, but that's content. What I was referring to was quantity. If you are describing it accurately, I'd say he has some eating issues. Like maybe he associates food with comfort. The obvious stuff, nothing deep.

11935. CalGal - 10/15/2001 5:21:06 PM

Go to your profile and uncheck Login automatically. That should do it, but double check. Worst case, delete the cookie.

11936. CalGal - 10/15/2001 5:21:29 PM

Wow, how'd I get back here? Sorry, GJ.

11937. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 5:23:22 PM

I'm almost tempted to say it's a male-bonding thing. Whenever he's around a certain group of friends, the quantity gets out of hand. It's as if they try and out do each other with how much meat they buy and eat.

Sometimes I think that he associates food with a feeling of control or superiority.

11938. don s. - 10/15/2001 5:27:39 PM

Last night, we had a Frasier dinner...tossed salad and scrambled eggs.

Who wants to tell her?

11939. CalGal - 10/15/2001 5:28:41 PM

Yeah, that's a possibility too. I had a friend once whose husband ate in the way you describe; they'd been married 20 years and she'd never been able to get a handle on it. But then she always regarded it as a habit, not a need.

I don't want to make it seem like that big a deal; the real issue will be when/if his metabolism starts to slow or his internal meters demonstrate signs of strain. But for now, probably the best thing you can do is talk to him about it. I'd focus on cost more than health, at this stage. MIght be more persuasive. But if you make it a control issue, you're screwed. So keep your personal wants out of it--except money and cost, which is reasonable.

11940. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 5:40:00 PM

Good advice CalGal.

11941. DanDillon - 10/15/2001 5:48:01 PM

Jen,

Allow me to add my two cents. Definitely speak to him, as CG suggests, but then lay low for a spell. He's much more likely to consider and react to what you say if you say it and then chill. Hounding him will surely backfire. And whatever you do, Jen, do it out of love for the man. No other agenda, no other reason.

Thank you. I will now stand down.

11942. CalGal - 10/15/2001 5:50:34 PM

Totally agree.

Also, I should have mentioned that money issues are another big control point, so if he doesn't like you worrying about that you've got another problem. So don't substitute money battles for food battles.

11943. ScottLoar - 10/15/2001 5:52:27 PM

Sometimes I think that he associates food with a feeling of control or superiority.

And this man also wants you to wear stilleto heels which you and he both know are uncomfortable and painful?

No need to reply. My intent is not to embarrass or goad you to explanation or, worse, a defence.

11944. judithathome - 10/15/2001 6:04:37 PM

Who wants to tell her?

Don, it was a literal take on the words to the song; nothing more profound than that.

11945. don s. - 10/15/2001 6:19:44 PM

judith, when I was younger and single, I enjoyed many meals that consisted, in part, of those two items.

I've always maintained that the "Frasier" theme song is one of the filthiest tunes ever broadcast on commercial TV.

11946. judithathome - 10/15/2001 6:21:08 PM

Gee, I guess I just watch for Eddie doing cute stuff while the credits roll...

11947. glendajean - 10/15/2001 6:21:19 PM

Here's one explanation for Frasier's theme song -- it was posted on a web site and I assume written by the series creator:

Its been fun watching the different theories regarding the meaning of
"Tossed Salads and Scrambled Eggs" pop up over the last few years. I don't
think "Hamlet" has been as closely scrutinized or more divergently
interpreted.

Here is what I (and the songwriters and other two creators of the show)
thought it meant when we decided on it.

Hey baby I hear the blues a'callin'

play on words: He's got the blues and referencing that he takes phone
calls

Tossed Salads and Scrambled Eggs

mixed up people who call in

And maybe I seem a bit confused
Well, maybe, but I got you pegged

the core of Frasier's character: He is a nutcase himself much of the
time, but can analyze the problems of others

But I don't know what to do with those
Tossed Salads and Scrambled Eggs

except these damn callers

They're callin' again

they're calling again

11948. don s. - 10/15/2001 6:42:01 PM

Yeah. That's the sanitized interpretation. It's what they want you to believe.

11949. don s. - 10/15/2001 6:42:44 PM

"Scrambled eggs all over my face ... what is a boy to do?"

11950. Jenerator - 10/15/2001 7:20:34 PM

Scott,

he likes the way stilettoes look, I haven't worn them in a long, long time.

Dan,

Thank you.

11951. Absensia - 10/16/2001 1:25:39 AM

Got your pumpkins yet? Check here for carving inspirations.

11952. thoughtful - 10/16/2001 10:52:34 AM

In today's NY Times, American Heart Association denouces high protein diets.

11953. judithathome - 10/16/2001 11:01:15 AM

Thats why I'm glad I stopped with the Atkins diet 2 years ago.

11954. judithathome - 10/16/2001 12:52:41 PM

This may be the wrong thread for it but at our State Fair, they have set up a complete recreation of the I Love Lucy set and included the kitchen and the conveyor belt from the candy factory...you can even test your skills at dipping the chocolates and packing them. Saw it on the news last night and people were having a blast trying to outdo the conveyor belt.

The kitchen was rather plain looking.

11955. glendajean - 10/16/2001 6:01:30 PM

According to the NY TImes, BIG TEX lead fair goers in the national anthem.

I saw a scale model of the actual "I Love Lucy" studio at Universal in Orlando. Very interesting exhibit about Lucy.

11956. arkymalarky - 10/16/2001 8:01:32 PM

I haven't seen Big Tex in years. We used to go every year when I was a kid.

11957. bubbaette - 10/16/2001 9:30:10 PM

What's Big Tex?

Mike and I have agreed on a compromise for our kitchen make-over. We have grooved knotty pine paneling in our den/now kitchen. I suggested just painting it because from everything I've heard, it's a real bitch to strip and the 50-year old varnish has yellowed pretty badly. Mike wanted to cut it off at chair rail height and sheet rock above the chair rail. I want a ceramic tile kitchen floor while he wants sheet vinyl. So he gets to cut the paneling and install sheet rock while I get the tile I want.

He's also agreed taht we can get everything done at once and take out a loan instead of doing pay-as-you go over a 3 to 5 year period.

11958. arkymalarky - 10/16/2001 9:32:13 PM

It's the big inflated cowboy that overlooks the Texas state fair.

I think that combination will look good, Bub, and getting it done now will really be nice.

11959. Absensia - 10/16/2001 9:33:36 PM

Bubba, that's wonderful!! I hope you don't have to make more poppers.

11960. bubbaette - 10/16/2001 9:41:43 PM

The paneling below the chair rail will look great, and it's less than half as much area for me to strip and refinish. But it's ALOT more work for Mike than for me to simply paint the stuff. I wish I had taken a good set of "before" pictures of the den and kitchen before Mike knocked the wall out, but I'm going to take a set tomorrow so we can see at least a partial comparison when we're all done.

We're also going to get someone to come in and take a look at the space and make recommendations about the configuration for the cabinet and appliance configurations. That was Mike's suggestion and I was surprized when he made it since he's such a DIYer at heart -- he'd rather figure it out himself. But at the rate we're going, we'll be sinking quite a bit of money into this and it makes alot of sense to get a professional opinion from someone who's redone lots of kitchens.

11961. bubbaette - 10/16/2001 9:48:07 PM

Abs

I expect that poppers will be the LEAST of it! But it is really great to have a partner who's so handy.

I'm tickled that we're going to get it all done in one fell swoop. I've heard him talk about building a room and bathroom onto his old house with his ex, and frankly, I'd rather live with the old kitchen than put a huge strain on our marriage.

11962. Absensia - 10/16/2001 9:52:57 PM

I agree about strains like that on marriages. Just not worth it. Have you thought of what colors you want?

11963. bubbaette - 10/16/2001 10:12:04 PM

I have thought about thinking about colors. We looked at some cabinets just to get some ideas and so far I'm partial to glazed natural maple. But since we're keeping the knotty pine in the "sit down" area of the kitchen, I'm wondering if I'll want cabinets more in this range or will it be too much?

With the glazed natural maple I'd been thinking about a pinkish beige for the tiles for the floor and the backsplash. What I don't want is something that's trendy now, but will look dated in a few years so that tends toward neutrals. We'd looked at corian or florenata solid countertops, but at upwards of $100/foot, I think we'll go with formica at $12 per foot. The way I'm thinking, the place to add some color would be in the formica since that would be relatively inexpensive to replace. But some accent tiles for the backsplash would also add accents.

We'll probably to to Colortile or someplace like that for suggestions.

Whatever we do in the way of color, it's going to have to carry into the now wretched utility room. It's a pretty large space for a utility -- probably 10 X 12. We're taking the old cabinets from the kitchen and installing them along one side of the utility and painting them. Then putting the washer, dryer and water heater on the other side behind folding door, leaving enough spare room there for a nice sized broom/cleaning closet. The current kitchen sink will go in the utility, giving me a nice mud sink close to the back door and a good prep surface for my summer canning onslaught. The kitchen floor tile will also be used in the utility. The whole thing is going to give me a huge L shaped room that I expect we'll end up living in.

11964. Absensia - 10/16/2001 10:17:38 PM

It really sounds like quite a project but it also sounds wonderful. Do you need to add windows for more light or do you aleady have enough?

11965. bubbaette - 10/16/2001 10:29:39 PM

The den was a very dark room -- what with all that dark paneling and only one standard sized window but my bro added two 10 inch solar tubes that have brightened the room considerably. The one window in that room will eventually become a french door leading out to a deck with a screen porch, but that's another project for another time.

The utility has a standard sized window and a half-windowed back door, and the kitchen has an above-sink window that has a great view of my side flower beds and our neighbor's park-like front yard. We'll probably add some track lights or something like that above the counter/bar separating the kitchen from the eating area.

I don't think that we'll add more or larger windows -- it's a brick and block home and enlarging or adding windows seems like a daunting task. But I'm looking forward to having a kitchen designer make recommendations about lighting in general.

I think we have some good general ideas about what we want, but hopefully the designer will have ideas about things we haven't occured to us. I fear, however, that the designer might use it more as an opportunity to try to sell us gewgaws we don't need so as to jack up the price of the project.

Cynical?

11966. Absensia - 10/16/2001 10:40:06 PM

Of course you are cynical and with good reason. How else will they get much money? Hopefully you'll find someone who cares more about giving you good ideas, selling you what you need and not going for just a quick buck.

From the utility windows can you see the back yard with the trucks up on blocks? "Neighbor's park like front yard"? They got rid of the old fridge and washing machine?

11967. bubbaette - 10/16/2001 10:53:39 PM

All joking aside, my neighbor's house was the original house in the area with the neighborhood growing up around it. The big ol farmhouse is in the center of four lots with mature japanese maples, bradford pears and dogwoods spaced throughout and fronted with old oak trees. It's really beautiful in the spring. On the property line between us is a row of 4 foot tall azaleas that bloom fuschia in the spring and on my side of the azaleas I have a bed planted with daffodils and tulips for the spring and hostas, bee balm and assorted annuals in the summer.

Out at the back of our little yard I have a row of seven camillia bushes -- some as tall as 15 feet. To one side is a lovely japanese maple and on the other side of the yard is my veggie garden with climbing roses trained over a picket fence and trellises separating us from the other side neighbor.

Out front we have a small yard with a 30 foot cedar of lebanon planted smack in the middle. In front of the yard is a low (18 inch) cobblestone yard with a sidewalk in front of that. I tore up the strip of grass (about 30 inches wide) between the wall and the sidewalk and have planted that in daffodils, tulips, irises, dasies and brown eyed susans.

It's the first house I've ever owned and I plan to live here til I die. It's small -- a little over 1,200 feet, but how much room do two people need?

11968. bubbaette - 10/16/2001 10:55:10 PM

oops -- that should be cobblestone wall, not yard.

11969. arkymalarky - 10/16/2001 11:02:02 PM

It would depend on the two people. ;-)

Bob and I seem to need more room with Mose in the house, but won't need to use the upstairs when she's moved out unless we want to. It will be her--and after she's 30, her family's--landing spot, and for company in general.

11970. Absensia - 10/16/2001 11:02:22 PM

Oh, Bubba, it all sounds beautiful and I've noticed how much work you have put in it. Is it possible to take some pictures and post them. Did you take any this summer of the yards, etc.?

Designed right, 1200 can feel like a lot of space. I do like the idea and look of french doors.

11971. arkymalarky - 10/16/2001 11:04:39 PM

Yeah, I'd love to see the work in progress. I envy you the yards. They sound lovely.

11972. bubbaette - 10/16/2001 11:15:16 PM

I recently bought one of those printer/scanner/copier thingies, and as soon as I can get the love of my life to hook it up, I'll post some pics.

Anyhow, thanks for letting me babble. I'm off to bed.

11973. Absensia - 10/16/2001 11:38:49 PM

Darn, I missed you. Sweet dreams.

11974. glendajean - 10/17/2001 11:15:54 AM

Bubbaette -- I hope you keep us updated on your house renovation.

We've gotten over 5 inches of rain since Thursday. Today is the first clear sky day in a while.

It rained several days the week before, too, so the ground is thoroughly soaked, the large creek that runs through town looks like a river and the river is the highest I've seen it.

At some point, I've got to get the leaves raked and the rest of my autumn planting finished.

11975. glendajean - 10/17/2001 11:20:01 AM

Another freeze warning last night, so I went out and picked all the remaining green tomatoes -- lots of them. I'll put them in paper sacks in the garage.

11976. thoughtful - 10/17/2001 1:47:43 PM

bbbtt, the kitchen project sounds wonderful and like a lot of fun (and work). If I may throw my 2 cents worth in....

I agree about the formica counters...easy to replace, easy to change and they make some nice patterns now. You might want to look into the fancy edgings you can get like wooden bullnose too to dress it up some.

Also, I thought about tile floor for my new kitchen but worry about it being cold and glass breakage. I've since seen some "vinyl" stuff that amtico makes. It's not like any normal vinyl flooring but is very heavy and dense so it looks like real stuff, but is warmer than tile or stone and comes with a lifetime guarantee. You might want to check it out. They do some really nifty things with it. Just an alternative to consider before you decide.

Also, on cabinets, I'm not that much a fan of knotty pine so for me pine cabinets would definitely be too much. I have no trouble with various shades and colors of wood and they do have some wonderful cabinet finishes, so I would go with something that blends rather than tries to match the paneling. (Lately I've leaned toward some of the antiqued finishes on cabinets.)

11977. thoughtful - 10/17/2001 1:48:01 PM

bbbtt, cont'd.
I'm all for keeping the permanent background colors in neutral shades, but for walls and easy-to-change surfaces, I've found that deeper, richer colors can bring out the warmer tones in the wood over the softer pastels. Look in magazines and such to see what you like. A lot of people are afraid of color until they see it done and then they like it. I redid my mom's sitting room and did the walls in a medium gold...room has white woodwork. If she were around, she would have never gone along with it, but once it was done she really loved it.

Finally, since you have such a large utility room, you might consider putting a pantry area in there for storage...cans and seldom used pots and such as a pantry area not only provides easy to access storage, but will also save you $$ as kitchen cabinets can be very expensive. I really like the idea of a sink in there. Sounds terrific.

11978. Jenerator - 10/17/2001 3:51:29 PM

If you like those Swiss butter cookies you get in a tin around Christmas time, I have an excellent recipe in the recipe thread for you.

Don't worry CalGal, my, as you like to call him, "piggish husband who substitutes food for the sex I'm apparently not giving him" doesn't eat them.

11979. bubbaette - 10/17/2001 4:36:43 PM

Thoughtful

Thanks for the suggestions. My only real objection to the vinyl flooring is that it wears out relatively quickly and looks really crappy when it does. I've sent that link to myself at home and will sit down with Mike this evening and take a gander. I hadn't thought about the breakage problem.

I am not a big fan of knotty pine either, and since we have very nice oak hardwood floors in that room, I'm already mixing up the wood colors.

11980. thoughtful - 10/17/2001 6:23:56 PM

bbbtt, here's another site about amtico floors for DIY. We were in Home Depot's Expo and we saw it there....they had some of it laid on the floor with all the other tile samples. It wasn't until I saw the slate sample on the display that I realized I walked on it not knowing it was vinyl not stone and despite all the heavy traffic in the store, it still looked good.

11981. thoughtful - 10/17/2001 6:27:01 PM

I thought it had a lifetime warranty, but according to the web site it's 20 years...a darn site better than the normal vinyl. You have to see it though to appreciate that it's not that usual congoleum or armstrong junk with all those stupid textured divots that are impossible to clean. Why they think that improves the product is beyond me.

11982. thoughtful - 10/17/2001 6:30:43 PM

I still get confused when I look at kitchen cabinets...you can see the style and the color, but it's hard to imagine that blown up into a full-sized kitchen. Then there's all the different choices....glass fronts/corners/finials or crown moldings. Then there's about 1,000 different knobs to choose from, all of which changes the effect of the cabinets too. Decisions, decisions. I wish I could find a picture I liked and just copy it, but somehow, none of them ever strike me as quite right either. Sigh. I'm too darn picky.

11983. bubbaette - 10/17/2001 6:48:46 PM

Thoughtful

I e-mailed the company asking for some brochures and a list of dealers in my area. It looks great from what I can see on their site. 20 years is twice the expected life of sheet vinyl and, in my experience it doesn't even hold up for that long in high traffic areas. The kitchen is the highest traffic area in our home.

As far as cabinet styles, I'm looking for something as simple as possible. The current cabinets in here are plain front and probably built on site when the house was built in '49. They have very plain white porceline knobs and, to my view, don't look all that dated but are stained too dark with a walnut stain. They will be great in the utility painted a neutral color.

One of the uses of the utility room cabinets will be to store all the extra cookware that I can't fit in my current kitchen. I have bracket shelves now, where I store big things like my canner, crock pots, stock pots, cake cover and the like. It will be nice to get them behind doors, along with the large assortment of Mike's indoor tools which currently cover every available surface.

The den had been the "3rd bedroom" in our house and has 4 foot wide ceiling to floor closet. I use it to house the stereo and cd's and for canned goods and board games. As part of the remodeling, we're going to open it up, put a cabinet with shelves in the bottom and at the very top and leave the middle section open as a sort of built-in entertainment center.

The main drawback to all these plans is that if we need to sell, it will be a two-bedroom home. But Mike feels like it would be fairly easy to either throw up a dividing wall again or give the buyers an "allowance" to do it themselves. Frankly, I would think that anyone who needed three bedrooms would be looking at a bigger house.

11984. bubbaette - 10/17/2001 6:55:06 PM

And I have no desire for glass front cabinets. In my experience, cabinets are to hide clutter, not display it. Anyhow, mom has a huge china cabinet that she wants to give to me. I had bought the top of it for her when I was working at Thomasville furniture in Appomattox -- they'd bought it from Pensylvannia House to use as a model for one of their particle board knock-offs. It's a bow front with curved glass panes that I got at a "remnants" sale for $25 bucks. Mom and dad bought the bottom to it and it's really quite a piece. Right now I don't have a place to put it, but when the remodeling is done I'll have the room. What I don't have is china to put in it. But I plan to display my grandmother's depression glass collection in it and the china tea set that dad brought for her when he was on leave in Japan.

11985. thoughtful - 10/18/2001 3:15:12 PM

bbbtt, sounds great. I agree about the glass front doors on kitchen cabinets, but when I see pictures, they look so good. They have many choices now including frosted glass that avoids the "see thru" issue.

Building in the TV set sounds great...I hate having to cope with TVs, yet seem to have them everywhere.

And the hutch! What a wonderful piece. You must post pictures when you get a chance.

11986. judithathome - 10/18/2001 3:28:48 PM

I have some sheet vinyl slate that looks like laid tile by Armstrong in the garden room...it's in the traffic area which Keoni uses as a driving range...and it looks exactly like the real thing; fools everyone who sees it. It has a 20 year warranty and I know I'm not gonna be around to see it wear out. Anyhow, it's called African Slate and it's grey...really neat stuff.

Our friends did their kitchen floor in glazed Italian tile and the first day after they had everything all installed and moved back in, their kid opened the fridge and dropped a heavy jar of pickles...instant missing chunk out of the tile.

11987. glendajean - 10/18/2001 3:31:11 PM

I've always wanted real tile floors and have always heard the reasons why one shouldn't.

Sounds like you found a good compromise, Judith.

11988. thoughtful - 10/18/2001 3:38:50 PM

Hubby is a big believer in amtico as he was in the machinery business that, among other materials, worked on vinyl flooring. He was most impressed with their quality over that of other manufacturers.

11989. judithathome - 10/18/2001 3:56:17 PM

thoughtful, the pics of it looked great!

11990. arkymalarky - 10/18/2001 6:32:11 PM

I got my tile cheaper than linoleum because I got closeout (what I'd wanted anyway) and our carpenters put it in, and they charged by the hour (very reasonable hourly rates).

I like linoleum styles available now, and Mose's bathroom and pantry have a linoleum she picked out which was on a great sale because they didn't have much of it left--not enough for a full kitchen, even.

11991. glendajean - 10/19/2001 10:54:30 AM

We used to have flooring expert in the Mote. Was it Rick Nelson? I can't remember, but they knew everything about floors.

11992. Jenerator - 10/19/2001 11:28:32 AM

Time for the big twelver in here....

11993. judithathome - 10/19/2001 11:30:39 AM

I discovered yesterday afternoon that I am having weekend guests due to a family funeral tomorrow. Keoni is such a sweetheart...he played golf yesterday afternoon and when he got home, he vacuumed the entire house and helped me get everything picked up around here. Usually after a game of golf, he takes a nap.

11994. judithathome - 10/19/2001 11:31:07 AM

Oh wow....a run?

11995. Jenerator - 10/19/2001 11:32:08 AM

Put up yer dukes.

11996. judithathome - 10/19/2001 11:32:49 AM

No use...

11997. Jenerator - 10/19/2001 11:32:51 AM

I went to a Southern Living party last night.

11998. Jenerator - 10/19/2001 11:33:13 AM

and I bought lots of stuff

11999. judithathome - 10/19/2001 11:33:14 AM

I'm dragging this morning...

12000. judithathome - 10/19/2001 11:33:26 AM

12001. Jenerator - 10/19/2001 11:33:27 AM

Yes?

12002. Jenerator - 10/19/2001 11:33:46 AM

No fair!!!!

12003. judithathome - 10/19/2001 11:33:53 AM

Sorta....

:-)

12004. Jenerator - 10/19/2001 11:39:37 AM

Have you ever read Southern Living magazine Judith? It's considered the non-religious Bible of the south. I love it because of the recipes and the decorating tips. The magazine company also owns Cooking Light magazine.

Anyway, I went to a "party" last night where feature decorator items could be purchased for less than the listed prices. I bought some Christmas presents!

12005. judithathome - 10/19/2001 11:43:22 AM

Oh yeah, I glance through it all the time at the antique mall; people actually sell their used copies!

12006. ronski - 10/19/2001 11:50:03 AM

Auroras and meteors predicted for this weekend.

12007. thoughtful - 10/19/2001 1:59:21 PM

ronski, cool...any best viewing times?

12008. thoughtful - 10/19/2001 2:03:15 PM

linoleum...real linoleum is very expensive and darn near indestructible:

Linoleum was invented in England in 1863 by Frederick Walton who coined the name linoleum from the Latin name, linum, which means flax, and oleum, which means oil. Later in the century, Michael Nairn, a flooring manufacturer in Kirkcaldy, Scotland perfected the flooring, introducing qualities such as inlaid patterning — a feature seen today.

Linoleum is a flooring that is manufactured by oxidizing linseed oil to form a thick mixture called linoleum cement. The cement is cooled and mixed with pine resin, and wood flour to form sheets on a jute backing. The term, linoleum is often used incorrectly to describe any sheet flooring, when in fact flooring can be made from other materials such as polyvinyl chloride.

12009. ronski - 10/19/2001 2:07:41 PM

thoughtful,

Meteors probably any time after dark, but auroras are supposedly most prevalent as midnight approaches, which is late, I know. But I seem to remember that when I would see them in Vermont when I was in college, they would be happening somewhere between 10 pm and maybe 1 pm.

Last year in midwinter we had them down here around 9 or 10 o'clock, but unfortunately I missed them. That was the time they were seen as far south as Atlanta, which is quite rare. Or was it the year before.

12010. judithathome - 10/19/2001 2:32:59 PM

When is daylight savings time over?

12011. glendajean - 10/19/2001 3:14:38 PM

October 28

12012. judithathome - 10/19/2001 3:22:40 PM

Oh good...we leave on the 30th and I was hoping it was that weekend.

12013. ronski - 10/19/2001 3:24:47 PM

I knew it was around Halloween. We didn't feel like having a Halloween party this year, but we did invite a couple over for dinner the Saturday night preceding, and they have a little boy who will enjoy the jack-o-lanterns I am sure to carve and our new kitten, whom he will be allowed to play with under strict supervision.

The wife is one of the best cooks I have ever known, and she is especially masterful with cookies. I won't make Halloween cookies, hoping she will. Yum.

12014. judithathome - 10/19/2001 3:38:01 PM

I bought a 1950s cat statue to put in the window...it's actually two black cats and they are both tall and skinny; got a little jack'o'lantern to set next to them and I'll put these in the front window after I take Klaus to the kennel...he rules that roost when he's home and would probably knock the cats over in his dashes across the window seat trying to scare the mailman every day. That's going to be the extent of my holiday decor for the night of the ghouls.

12015. thoughtful - 10/19/2001 3:41:01 PM

We stopped celebrating halloween with the candy and children. Somehow I find it disconcerting to encourage kids to demand we give them something for nothing or else they'll do something evil to us. Now we usually go out to dinner and keep the house pitch dark.

But this year, somehow, I'm especially in no mood for ghoulishness...if I want that, I only need close my eyes and see the many images of the planes, the towers, the fire....it's still too much for me.

12016. judithathome - 10/19/2001 3:43:56 PM

Well, we'll be out of town so the cats are just a gesture...ha!

12017. Jenerator - 10/19/2001 5:33:13 PM

Ronski,

If you want to make a simple but incredible cookie, try the butter cookie recipe I posted in Recipes. After their cooled off, smear a little dark chocolate on top and sprinkle with orange crunchies. Your friend will love them!

12018. glendajean - 10/19/2001 6:25:54 PM

In my village, we'll meet on the end of a neighbor's drive, sitting around a portable "outdoor" fireplace. The neighborhood kids come in groups and we give them candy. The adults sit and gossip.

Next weekend is also our chili cook-off. We have to show the midwesterners what Texas chili is.

12019. ScottLoar - 10/19/2001 7:29:16 PM

Message # 12015: I would encourage all kids to wax your windows, smear dishwashing liquid over the doorknobs, and chalk "CHEAP" on your sidewalk. I hate people who leave their houses vacant on Halloween, or do not answer their door, or let the downstairs neighbors do the hand-outs.

I cannot understand you equating trick-or-treat with the demand we give them something for nothing or else they'll do something evil to us. Evil? Trick-or-treat? Have you no sense of proportion? And something for nothing? Christ! Are you serious? Maybe you're real serious to deny candy to children. Maybe they should thank you for the memories of a shut door.

And that goes for anyone else who hides away on Halloween because the kids are a pain or the principle of "something for nothing" is beyond comprehension of just too painful for you to bear.

12020. ScottLoar - 10/19/2001 7:29:57 PM

Corrigendum: or

12021. ScottLoar - 10/19/2001 7:32:53 PM

We live in the city, 2nd floor. Every kid large or small no matter the age who rings our bell gets a candy bar. The young ones get a compliment on their costumes, the older ones are reminded to be careful, and the parents if they're standing by get a candy bar too.

"Something for nothing" my ass! I remember my own youth and thank those who gave us candy, looked the other way at the way we were, or told us of Santa Claus.

12022. arkymalarky - 10/19/2001 11:51:35 PM

We've never had a single trick-or-treater at our house. We've got more kids in the area this year, so maybe this time I won't have to eat all the candy. Mose and Bob don't like candy much, especially chocolate, so of course that's what I always buy.

12023. RustlerPike - 10/20/2001 12:02:12 AM

As a young Israeli growing up in New Jersey, Halloween scared me somewhat. And I hated Goosey Night.

There were stories about poisoned food and stuff, you know. And the idea of kids knocking on strangers' doors... I don't know. Some people are meanies. I think it probably made more sense 100 years ago, when there was more of a community spirit in the States.

Or maybe I'm dead wrong and it's a wonderful thing.

12024. arkymalarky - 10/20/2001 12:17:54 AM

What's Goosey Night?

There aren't any strangers out here. I've never taken Mose to neighborhoods we didn't know. Town used to have a nice downtown Halloween where all the businesses had treats for the kids and there were activities for them and everything. One of the benefits of small towns, I guess.

12025. Jenerator - 10/20/2001 9:55:38 AM

I don't like it when teenagers come to the door and just hold out their pillow cases. I mean, if you're going to trick-or-treat, at least dress up in a costume and say trick or treat.

My hubby wants us to be Sonny and Cher this year, what a riot!

12026. arkymalarky - 10/20/2001 7:35:14 PM

What're you going to do, chop his legs off at the knees?

12027. Jenerator - 10/20/2001 11:39:28 PM

You have a point. I don't think I could pass for Tina Turner if we stuck with the rock-n-roll couples theme.

12028. joezan - 10/20/2001 11:42:21 PM

Dolf and Brigitte?

12029. Jenerator - 10/21/2001 12:02:03 AM

How about Tommy and Pamela Lee?

12030. judithathome - 10/21/2001 8:57:01 AM

ScottLoar:

I don't know why I'm bothering to explain this to you after that chewing out but since we will be in Hawaii on Halloween, we will be unable to hand out treats at our home in Texas but will do so at my in-laws home in Hilo. Every year, my husband dresses up in some sort of get-up and hands out heaps of treats to the little goblins who come to the door and like you, compliments the costumes enthusiastically.

Luckily for the children of Texas, he doesn't hand out Hawaiian treats which consist of crack seed and things like li hung mui...dried, salty plums...but he is looking forward to having those on hand in Hilo because whatever is left, he and he alone will get to finish. Were we home, it would be chocolate in many guises and I'd be tempted by it.

12031. arkymalarky - 10/21/2001 10:09:08 AM

The tattoos could be managed with work, but you're husband's not scrawny or greasy enough to be Tommy Lee, Jen.

Judith,

I hope y'all have a great time in Hawaii! When do you leave?

12032. judithathome - 10/21/2001 10:19:25 AM

Thanks, Arky...we'll be leaving on Oct 30.

12033. joezan - 10/21/2001 10:34:04 AM

I've got it...

Mark Gastineau and Brigitte Nielsen!

12034. thoughtful - 10/22/2001 1:44:45 PM

ScottL, #12019 ff. This thread is called the good life and the mood in here is supposed to be a pleasant one, but I guess that doesn't apply to you who have many times seen to appoint yourself judge-in-chief.

Guess what? Halloween and participation in Halloween is voluntary. That's why courteous participants respect the lights off policy. There are many reasons why people choose not to participate including very religious people who find celebrating pagan rituals anathema. That is their right. The fact that you enjoy celebrating it as do many others here is fine by me. I choose not to participate as is my right. If you wish to hate me for it, it's no skin off my nose. However, I do not appreciate your wishing ill on me and/or my property because I approach Halloween differntly than you. I find your reaction and your language way out of proportion.

12035. judithathome - 10/22/2001 1:48:57 PM

Thoughtful...I think you have every right not to participate; I feel the same way about Girl Scout cookie sales. And those kids at intersections begging money for band trips, etc. Keoni was very embarrassed by me once when I rolled the window down and snarled at them to have a bake sale or car wash instead of panhandling.

12036. thoughtful - 10/22/2001 2:24:29 PM

Thank you J@h. I hate saying anything to anyone like I just did to ScottL as it really is too much negative energy, especially for this thread, but I really felt unfairly attacked.

I make it a rule to never give money to people who sit outside of grocery stores or people who run "tolls" on busy streets regardless of the cause as the donations are all cash and you have no way of knowing how much actually gets to the charity involved. One woman started arguing with me accusing me of not caring enough for the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing because I wouldn't give her money. She cut a slot in a plastic container as if that somehow means she can't take the money for personal use and just starts soliciting people in the parking lot. When I give, I do it by check to legitimate charities and then often get to double the donation as our company matches donations to many charities.

12037. judithathome - 10/22/2001 2:40:17 PM

The kid next door is currently raising money for a school project of some sort and normally I would probably think this is a good idea for the holidays...instead of overpriced wrapping paper, they are selling tubs of cookie dough for $11.00. One tub will make 100 cookies.

Okay, this is a great idea for families with not much time, several kids, or who like cookies and milk but there are only 2 of us here and one of us isn't eating cookies. But Keoni loves these kids next door and buys everything they peddle so we ordered a tub and I will bake the damned things and send them to work with Keoni.

12038. thoughtful - 10/22/2001 2:52:39 PM

Work is always a great way of getting rid of food. People at work are vultures.

Our neighbors have 5 kids and mom had a bunch of steak 'ums and french fries in the freezer which they can't eat anymore so we gave them to the kids next door....woofed them right down.

This weekend the weather was so nice. I finally got a chance to dig out the bed with all the day lilies...hadn't been touched in the over 20 years since we moved in. Dug out everything, amended the soil and then replanted. Gave some to my neighbor and I think I still planted over 300 of the darn things. Now we need to figure out how to keep the deer out.

12039. ScottLoar - 10/22/2001 4:06:48 PM

Thoughtful, how can I address your fears and sensibilities? Little kids in devil's costumes are too ghoulish for your sensitivities, "trick-or-treat" is an invitation to extortion and evil and, worse, they want something for nothing. And you accuse me of putting vinegar in The Good Life here and exuding too much "negative energy"? You are truly thoughtless and without a wit of proportion as you fret about "my wish to damage your person and property". Now, did I, like, totally ruin the prospects of a lovely dinner out on Halloween?

Thoughtful, your moniker is wrong and you're just plain silly.

12040. PelleNilsson - 10/22/2001 4:30:18 PM

On the contrary, thoughtful is, indeed, thoughtful and a most delightful correspondent.

12041. janjon - 10/22/2001 4:31:41 PM

ah.

an incipient food fight.

how apt. if not droll.

12042. thoughtful - 10/22/2001 5:41:31 PM

Thank you, pelle.

12043. thoughtful - 10/22/2001 5:49:36 PM

ScottL, this will be my last post here on the subject as I don't wish to wilt the flowers or curdle the milk.

But let me just suggest that words like "hate" as in I hate people who leave their houses vacant on Halloween..., unpleasant language like Christ! and my ass!, and wishing ill on my home as in I would encourage all kids to wax your windows, smear dishwashing liquid over the doorknobs, and chalk "CHEAP" on your sidewalk. in addition to smearing my reputation by claiming I'm ungenerous in nature is not the most effective way to "address [my] fears and sensibilities."

12044. DanDillon - 10/22/2001 6:01:01 PM

Apt that Halloween would be the topic, as this line of discussion is freaking me out. It's not creepy, so don't be creeps.

Let it go, move past it, and let all be saints.

12045. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 6:08:52 PM

Halloween is making inroads in Europe, as far as I could see.

Pumpkins, orange sundries, and kids costumes were on sale in various Spanish cities, including largely provincial Malaga, and prominent in the bigger establishments I visited in Paris.

12046. marjoribanks - 10/22/2001 6:11:09 PM

Of course, these all could be partly due to Yank presence. Despite all the flap about fear of flying and Americans shying away from overseas travel, there were Americans in masses everywhere I went, and both flights in and out of the country were packed.

12047. Jenerator - 10/22/2001 6:52:20 PM

As I kid, I didn't like it when people passed out the "bad candy". You know, raisins, apples, and pennies.

My mom said that one time she got a beef bouillion cube but thought that it was a bad caramel.

12048. judithathome - 10/22/2001 6:55:18 PM

Someone went to the trouble of frosting dog biscuits once when my kid was young...they were little cookie looking things and hard as a rock. Really sicko people to do that...

12049. Jenerator - 10/22/2001 6:59:59 PM

Everynow and then I'd get an already sucked on hard candy.

I was very methodical about my loot as a kid. As soon as I was finished trick-or-treating, I would dump out the contents of my pillow case, count how many pieces total, and begin separating it into piles. I would divide it up into chocolates, caramels, nut candy, sweet tart candy, lollipops, liquid, and bad candy. The weirdest thing I ever got was a gold tooth.

12050. ScottLoar - 10/22/2001 7:02:59 PM

"Claiming (you're) ungenerous in nature"? Thoughtless, this isn't about what you suppose I claim or how unjustly you've been treated, it's about your own self in your own words: such meanness of spirit as in Message # 120125 beggars my ability to describe. "Wishing ill on (your) home"! It's trick-or-treat, Thoughtless, and if you despise the kids you deserve what you get. Again, you don't like the idea of giving kids something for nothing (your own words). You're a crabbed pity of an excuse for an adult.

12051. ScottLoar - 10/22/2001 7:04:48 PM

Message # 12015 and let others see for themselves.

12052. Jenerator - 10/22/2001 7:08:26 PM

I didn't care for Halloween in England. No one came to the door except for drunks. Our doorbell rang until past 4:30 AM. The Europeans didn't quite understand it yet.

12053. ScottLoar - 10/22/2001 7:09:38 PM

And I had thought those characters by Charles Dickens strained credulity until Thoughtless' post.

12054. ScottLoar - 10/22/2001 7:12:14 PM

But at least one English girl visiting with her parents cared for Halloween in America. My daughter and theirs, both six or seven, went out together in the neighborhood to the delight of both and to the lasting memory of the girl and her family who were fully unprepared for Halloween in the US. Obviously they weren't in Thoughtless' neighborhood.

12055. arkymalarky - 10/22/2001 7:21:07 PM

Wow, I'd have loved to get a gold tooth for Halloween. Our governor is considering telling parents to not do Halloween because he doesn't think the state can handle all the panicky parent calls with our inadequate police force. I hate to tell him, but I don't think Arkansans are going to pay much attention to a statement from the governor to cancel Halloween. He was on ABC news a few minutes ago about it.

12056. Jenerator - 10/22/2001 7:29:24 PM

Arky,

I still have the tooth!

You know what will happen in Arkansas? Those warhead suckers and the fizzing suckers will break and there will be white powder (that's the sour and fizzing stuff) and the parents will freak out.

Some complete idiot here called the police department because "a mysterious" package arrived at his door from New York. When the team of investigators arrived, they started with the basic questions like, "Are you expecting any mail from New York?" His response was a yes. So they opened the package and in it was soap. "Are you expecting soap?" His response was a yes. So naturally the police were like, "Um, then here's your soap asshole." and the guy loudly stated that he didn't want it now because it had been in New York!.

12057. arkymalarky - 10/22/2001 10:33:41 PM

That's what Huckabee said, except he said PixieStix (my personal favorite candy). I know police must be having fits with the moron calls, in addition to the cranks.

12058. cmboyce - 10/23/2001 12:52:43 AM

Great moron story, Jen! That guy can go as himself, Halloween, and horrify the neighborhood.

12059. thoughtful - 10/23/2001 9:01:44 AM

I'm amazed at how big halloween has gotten...I understand it's second only to xmas in terms of $$ spent for the holidays. (It annoys me no end that the stores are putting out xmas stuff already even before halloween!) People are decking out their houses with orange lights and pumpkin lights on trees and doors. Yet the amount of trick-or-treating in our area has dropped considerably as parents have been in fear for years (pre anthrax) of nasty things done to the candy...police were offering to use metal detectors on the collected candy before parents gave it to children...stories abound about razor blades in apples. So many have opted for the more public haunted house tours of which there are many, or the halloween parties in peoples homes where they can have more control over what the children are receiving. Others have warned about children getting hit by cars as they run around the streets in dark clothing and masks which obstruct their vision.

12060. judithathome - 10/23/2001 9:15:10 AM

I just found out the Haunted House nearest us charges $18 per person...we drove by the other night and there was a line around the block for it. I don't get it...

And a local church is doing The Living Hell...a fright fest of tableaus set up to represent death from abortion, AIDS, drunk driving...it's very graphic and at the end of it, you get a little sermon and prayer. Plus you have to pay for this, also.

Paying money to be frightened... when you can turn on the news for free.

12061. thoughtful - 10/23/2001 10:43:14 AM

Eww. That church thing sounds horrifying.

12062. Jenerator - 10/23/2001 10:53:41 AM

Bubba said that if we want *real* scary, we should go to her house in the mornin' to see her without make-up and in her fancy sleepin' britches.

Talk about a fright fest!

12063. thoughtful - 10/23/2001 11:02:59 AM

Jen, Haha! My hubby used to stop by my house in the a.m. before we were married and he saw me at the breakfast table, hair mussed, ratty robe, and doggone if the guy still didn't marry me! Strong stomach, I guess.

12064. Jenerator - 10/23/2001 11:05:49 AM

Maybe he just likes pain.

I have Medusa hair in the morning.

12065. stostosto - 10/24/2001 7:34:19 AM

Jenerator in the morning.

12066. Jenerator - 10/24/2001 10:46:52 AM

That's me in the living room.

12067. Webfeet - 10/24/2001 3:01:22 PM

bubba,

I just wanted you to know that I've enjoyed your home improvement posts. i had written something last week in resonse and my tot disconnected me before i could post. my only advice: give yourself a talk before you hire any specialist to come in and give you ideas, etc. It is so easy to get swept away by all the dazzling options out there. I am putty in their hands, but fortunately my husband is more grounded.

Keep us posted.

12068. glendajean - 10/25/2001 2:16:43 PM

Following the huge storm that blew through last night, we now have a beautiful fall day, at least beautiful until one encounters the wind gusts that almost knock a person off of his feet.

Sadly, the georgous red and orange leaves are almost being ripped from the branches. If there is a benefit of this, it means that I can get most of my raking up earlier than usual, instead of the week by week drip.

12069. judithathome - 10/25/2001 2:29:59 PM

GJ:

Check out the link to the Gift Exchange on the front page....

Keoni can sympathize with the leaf raking...ours haven't even completely turned yet and he's already gone through a box of bags...

12070. Jenerator - 10/26/2001 11:12:25 AM

My hubby now wants to go as the Spartan cheerleaders.

12071. judithathome - 10/26/2001 12:20:24 PM

From a college or from Cecil B. DeMille movies?

12072. Jenerator - 10/26/2001 2:47:39 PM

Judith,

From SNL.

I just made a loaf of banana bread from the Food TV website. I added a cup of pecans and cut the baking time in half and it turned out really good.

Does anyone else watch the Food Network? I'm infatuated with the chef from Food 911.

(get a life, I know!)

12073. Jenerator - 10/26/2001 3:00:49 PM

Tyler Florence!

12074. thoughtful - 10/29/2001 8:23:38 AM

Didn't really know where else to post this, but since I hang out here a lot, I thought this might be the place....I'm enjoying the good life sitting on my butt as I broke my leg most ungraciously ... was jogging my 3 miles at 5:30 a.m. when I took to the edge of the road to avoid a passing car...the leaves were thick and covered a 3" deep hole which I fell into. The hard part was the 1/2 mile walk toward home before I found a neighbor who called hubby to pick me up. Yuck.

Fortunately it was the end of my fibula that's busted and while I can't put much weight on the leg yet, I am in a removable walking cast so sleeping, showering, etc. are far easier than if I got a plaster one. The bad news is it's my right leg so hubby will have to chauffer me for awhile as I can't drive. But I'm enjoying the excuse to catch up on some reading, and have gained a whole new empathy for anyone with any infirmity. I have little patience for struggling with crutches though they are reminding me of upper arm muscles I forgot I had.

12075. Absensia - 10/29/2001 8:27:26 AM

Thoughtful,
I'm glad it wasn't any worse, and sorry it happened at all. Take as much time off as you can and make sure you are waited on hand and foot.

12076. thoughtful - 10/29/2001 8:34:59 AM

Thanks Absensia...would that I could though. My type A personality already has me making plans for how to work at work tomorrow instead of at home like today, and I've already tried putting weight on the foot with some success and have taken the cast off to try some flexing of the ankle, toe wiggling and such. Gotta get back to full speed ASAP. This is such a ridiculous waste of time and so frustrating.

12077. bubbaette - 10/29/2001 9:07:17 AM

Sorry to hear about your mishap, Thoughtful. I KNEW that exercise stuff was dangerous.

12078. glendajean - 10/29/2001 9:21:41 AM

Thoughtful -- sorry to hear about your accident.

Our village's annual chili-cookoff was Saturday night. It's held in our neighbor's backyard. Six entries, including mine. There was a multitude of "outdoor fireplaces" on wheels.

Because it is Indiana, and close to Cincinnati, some of the chilis cooked had pasta in them.

We cooked Texas chili, which means finding a meat counter that will sell coarse ground beef (6 lbs).

We (my partner and I) use Wick Fowler's mildest or family package for spices (oregano, cumin, red pepper, chili powder, salt, pepper, paprika). We sautee onions and garlic, and add tomato sauce and diced tomatoes. And we use beer and a little water for the liquid.

Our pot was empty by night's end.

12079. judithathome - 10/29/2001 9:21:54 AM

Thoughtful...you'd better force yourself to take it easy. You may think you are doing great by all that movement and flexing but what your are doing is delaying the healing because any movement is noticed by the bone. You're setting yourself up for major pain down the road...you need to do everything you can to strengthen that mend, not weaken it.

12080. judithathome - 10/29/2001 9:24:19 AM

GJ...no doubt! I'm sure everyone who is used to eating Cinncy "chili", which even has cinnamon(!) in it at times, were blown away by the real thing.

12081. glendajean - 10/29/2001 9:27:42 AM

Our chili is sweeter than the chili I ate growing up. In fact, my neighbor, born & raised in San Antonio, makes chili that mother could have made (except for coarse ground beef, he uses cubes of brisket). He also adds beans to his chili.

In the beans vrs. no beans debate, my partner is on the no-beans side. I used to buy a can of beans to add to my bowl but have given up.

12082. thoughtful - 10/29/2001 9:34:54 AM

Thanks for the kind thoughts bubbaette, judithah and glendaj.

J@h, I wouldn't have started flexing the ankle if the doc hadn't told me to do it so I am following doc's orders. He said I've got about a 1/3 chance that the end of the bone won't heal and will cause me problems which then may mean surgical removal of the bone chip, but 2 out of 3 it will heal without problem.

12083. thoughtful - 10/29/2001 9:35:30 AM

ACK! Can it be! A chili recipe revealed? I thought that was about as secret as BBQ sauce, no?

12084. bubbaette - 10/29/2001 9:36:57 AM

Sounds like you have a nice active neighborhood, GJ. My right side neighbor and I have talked about trying to do a neighborhood get-together, but never seem to get past the "talking about it" stage.

12085. theDiva - 10/29/2001 9:38:05 AM

HEY BUBB!!!!!!

I am sooooo sorry I missed you on Friday! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for the goodies. What a nice surprise to come home to!

12086. theDiva - 10/29/2001 9:38:52 AM

oh, no, just saw Thoughtful's bad news! Poor you!

12087. bubbaette - 10/29/2001 9:39:29 AM

My easy chili recipe -- a pint jar of homemade salsa, lb of ground beef -browned, can of pinto beans, tspn of cumin and a few extra jalapeno slices for kick.

12088. thoughtful - 10/29/2001 9:41:21 AM

Made braised pork chops for dinner on Sat for my folks and it came out good. Brown pork chops in a little oil then remove from pan. Saute large onion, 2 cloves of crushed garlic until wilted then add 1 c. or more of sliced mushrooms and saute a bit longer. Add marsala wine to deglaze pan, 1 Tbl balsamic vinegar, fresh tarragon (which is still growing in my herb garden) and dried basil, salt, and pepper. Cover and simmer until chops are done. I served it with polenta on the side, pouring sauce on top of the polenta and adding a sprinkling of parmesan. Family enjoyed it muchly.

12089. thoughtful - 10/29/2001 9:42:13 AM

Thanks Diva...just call me gimpy.

12090. bubbaette - 10/29/2001 9:42:24 AM

Diva

I feel like a wimp, but the week's classes had been grueling and they let us out early. I did my patriotic duty at Nordstrom Rack at Potomac Mills but still had a few hours to kill before you got off work, so hightailed it home to my sweetie instead.

12091. theDiva - 10/29/2001 9:46:25 AM

Gimpy!

Bubb

Oh, heck, I understand. I'd probably have caught you had I left work on time, but as it was I was held over by about 40 minutes,