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Welcome to the Movies and Television thread!
2. CalGal - 9/12/1999 10:19:48 PM
And, as my first public service, I will mention that the Emmys are on this evening.
Go Sopranos!
Although if Smits wins for Best Actor, I can deal.
Expect growls if Franz wins again. He did a great job. But if he wins one more time they may as well name the damn award after him. And he's not better than all the rest; he just keeps winning for some reason.
I thought Friends was shamefully overlooked this year in the acting noms. Matt LeBlanc in particular had a fabulous year. The look on his face when he figured out the significance of Monica's missing eyelash curler was one of the funniest things I saw all season.
Interesting difference in the Emmys: the winners are not picked by voters. The acting nominees submit a single episode for review by a committee, who votes. Actors who have one showy episode consequently have a big advantage. This explains a lot of otherwise puzzling wins. It also explains the prevalence of winners who have played twins in one episode--the committee apparently thinks this is a sign of acting "chops" and votes accordingly. Now you know why Lindsay Wagner won that year for The Bionic Woman.
The nominated shows submit three episodes.
I believe it has started already, but I'm off shopping. Someone keep me posted.
3. God - 9/12/1999 10:46:27 PM
Is Friends still on? Shouldn't they all be married by now, or something?
4. glendajean - 9/12/1999 10:46:27 PM
Franz won it again. Fourth win, sixth nomination.
5. God - 9/12/1999 10:47:27 PM
Jinx.
6. God - 9/12/1999 10:48:24 PM
And then I hit the next post on the same second 1 minute later. Hmmm. Maybe I AM God.
7. TabouliJones - 9/12/1999 11:24:36 PM
I caught some of the Emmies. Franz looked perplexed when he won again, stating flat out that he expected Smitz to win. Wasn't John Larroquette a perpetual winner of the best actor in a comedy series category during the 80s? I think he evntually asked not to be nominated any more. Robert Guillam presented the award to Franz. I did not realize that he had been sick. His speech was only slightly slurred and he had a cane. I forget what he said exacyly, but it was eloquent and understated.
John Lithgow was pretty funny when he won for best actor in a comedy series. He joked that most actors in town think that what he does is ludicrous in its simplicity and over the top goofiness. . . . Let's see: Ally McBeal and The Practice won for best comedy and drama, respectively. Martin Short presented an award. He was his usual funny self. That's about all that I caught.
8. God - 9/12/1999 11:27:28 PM
Does anybody else here despise (well, maybe a little strong, but not much) Robin Williams?
9. TabouliJones - 9/12/1999 11:30:10 PM
I like the old Robin Williams. The treacle he's associated himself with lately, however, is unbearable.
10. God - 9/12/1999 11:33:05 PM
Hello Tabouli. Help me out. What is tabouli?
11. TabouliJones - 9/12/1999 11:42:20 PM
God,
Tabouli, or tabbouleh, is "a salad of Lebanese origin consisting chiefly of cracked wheat, tomatoes, parsley, mint, onions, lemon juice, and olive oil." And it is damn tastey, if I do say so myself.
12. God - 9/12/1999 11:44:08 PM
Thanks Tabouli. And just what exactly is cracked wheat?
13. TabouliJones - 9/12/1999 11:49:43 PM
Cracked wheat is . . . actually, I don't know exactly, some sort of wheat I guess.
14. God - 9/12/1999 11:53:35 PM
Groovy Tabouli, thanks.
15. CalGal - 9/13/1999 1:15:07 AM
Bleah. What a dreadful awards show, a dreadful win list--everything sucked.
The Practice won. Gad. Not that The Practice is bad--but it wasn't anywhere near NYPD Blue and didn't even attain the heights of The Soprano's big toe.
And the only thing that made Franz' win acceptable is his gracious speech--and his evident irritation at the morons who gave him the award.
Edie Falco's speech sucked.
My god, ALLY won. Is there to be no bright side? Next thing I know, Elliot will post to tell me that the Practice won because of the show they had on gun control.
Sigh. I never expect real enjoyment from the Emmys, but some years are worse than others.
16. Uzmakk - 9/13/1999 7:13:25 AM
TabouliJones:
Actually, the wheat used in tabouleh is bulgur wheat, wheat that has been parboiled cracked and dried. Ofcourse, as we genuine cooks know, anything will do, substitutions are 75% of the joy of cooking, and I make an excellent tahbouleh with kasha(roasted buckwheat).
17. Uzmakk - 9/13/1999 9:01:56 AM
And cracked wheat is simply wheat that has been cracked. Wheat begins a whole kernal. Break it up a bit and one has cracked wheat. Keep breaking it up and one gets flour.
18. Toenails - 9/13/1999 9:22:23 AM
The Emmys show was like a rerun. Hey, maybe it really was a rerun. I mean, it's the season, right?
19. Toenails - 9/13/1999 9:26:53 AM
Has there been a comprehensive discussion anywhere about why SLATE changed its FRAY format so drastically? I thought it was a super-dumb
move, and I'm pleased that someone (so far, unidentified to me) has set up this reincarnation of the old FRAY site.
I'd be interested in going over the initial reactions of FRAY folk to the format change, if someone could direct me to them.
20. Toenails - 9/13/1999 10:00:21 AM
Has there been a comprehensive discussion anywhere about why SLATE changed its FRAY format so drastically? I thought it was a super-dumb
move, and I'm pleased that someone (so far, unidentified to me) has set up this reincarnation of the old FRAY site.
I'd be interested in going over the initial reactions of FRAY folk to the format change, if someone could direct me to them.
21. Toenails - 9/13/1999 10:01:16 AM
Sorry---All I did was hit "reload" and I got my message rerun.
22. TabouliJones - 9/13/1999 12:18:43 PM
Uzmak,
Thanks for the info. re. cracked wheat. I may try your suggestion and substitute kaska sometime. Of course, I am a hopeless, truly awful, cook. Oh well, I am sure even I cannot screw up tabouli.
23. TabouliJones - 9/13/1999 12:19:52 PM
Oops. kaska = kasha
24. WinstonSmith - 9/13/1999 1:14:50 PM
I watched So I Married an Axe Murderer again recently and it was great. I love that movie. I especially love the parts where Mike Meyers plays the Scottish father and says things like; “Heath, pants, now!”
25. Uzmakk - 9/13/1999 6:24:11 PM
I missed Eyes Wide Shut, a movie that I had intended to see. It was gone before I could blink. Anyhow, Lee Siegel, in October's Harper's claims that the critics responded to the hype and promotion and not to the movie which went right over their heads(a movie full of symbolism and literate references). He claims that it is certainly possible to dislike the movie, but it is not possible to dismiss it because it was not precisely what one would have expected from the advertising campaign. I am sure y'all already discussed it, but waddayasay?
26. JudithAtHome - 9/13/1999 10:00:56 PM
Uzmakk:
You've already got Octobers Harpers? I'm only 2/3s through Septembers!
27. KurtMondaugen - 9/13/1999 10:07:43 PM
"Eyes Wide Shut": It puts the Freud back in sang-froid.
28. marjoribanks - 9/13/1999 10:09:21 PM
Come on Mond, let's have the whole review if you please.
29. KurtMondaugen - 9/13/1999 10:13:19 PM
that is the whole review.
Not really, but it could take a while before I came up with my exact thoughts on the picture, other than a cursory "Flawed but interesting" assessment.
30. marjoribanks - 9/13/1999 10:16:34 PM
Well, I will decide whether to see it or not see it depending on the five hundred words at least, classic, Mondaugen comments.
Please.
31. KurtMondaugen - 9/13/1999 10:19:08 PM
Well, golly, marj, it's been a while since I've seen it, and I probably need to sit down with it at least once more for refreshment jogging. For now, just mull the little Shalitian blurb offered above.
32. marjoribanks - 9/13/1999 10:20:30 PM
Well, I want a review, of something. Anything. And let it be lengthy.
33. KurtMondaugen - 9/13/1999 10:22:16 PM
In due time, marj. Right now I'm putting some of the finishing editorial touches on a piece for the Sun's Eye (note to Seguine and Coral....far too slowly, I'm afraid, my apologies), a task which is occupying most of my brainpan as far as these things go.
34. KurtMondaugen - 9/14/1999 3:56:33 AM
Actually, marj, I've thought about it, and #27 *is* the entire review.
35. CalGal - 9/14/1999 4:08:53 AM
I am trying to rename FrayFilm. Suggestions, anyone?
Second--this isn't a great time, but I would like to resume our film festival (for those of you who don't know about it, check out FrayFest on the link listed above).
I thought we had some incredible energy going with the festival, but I'd like to do away with the open-ended schedule. By the end, we were all getting a bit tired. I'm not sure what kind of schedule makes sense. Maybe 4 times a year, four weeks each? That's 8-12 movies over a month period. We might decide to link the movies in a theme, or just have each host pick the movies of their choice, like last time.
I'm open to suggestions on that, as well. For now, I have enough to do getting the look and feel of the Mote finalized, the various texts for the intro pages written, and getting the film review site caught up--I'm reluctant to take on a film festival right away for the thread. (Obviously, anyone who wants to watch movies in tandem is most welcome to.)
For the time being, my greatest ambition for the thread is to have all the movie buffs do their stuff--and maybe get caught up on my own reviews.
If you're new to the Mote, welcome! I'm making references to events that happened at a previous forum, but no prior experience is required.
36. Phoenix Rising - 9/14/1999 9:06:42 AM
Woody Allen's Celibrity contains six of the most hilarious minutes I have seen in awhile. The scene consists of the Bebe Neuwurth character teaching the Judy Davis character how to give a blow job. Bebe uses a peeled banana for a prop and ends up choking on it.
What about the other two hours? I wish I had skipped it. It consists mostly of Kenneth Brannagh doing a lame Woody Allen imitation. Any insight into celebrity? Nada. Any profound commentary on the relationships between men and women? Zip.
Woody has just become tired. I'm not even sure why the film was in Black and White. It was pointless. Come to think of it, Deconstructing Harry was also pretty lame. Another two hour movie with one good joke (The elevator ride into Hell).
That would make Everybody Says I Love You as his last worthy effort. IMHO, Woody Allen should stop making movies until he has something new to say.
37. Phoenix Rising - 9/14/1999 9:19:22 AM
OTOH, Baseketball was at the bottom line, really really funny. I have to admit I tried to watch it twice and fell asleep both times after about 20 minutes. I almost gave up, but then tried a third time. I am glad I did. The first 20 minutes are slow and boring. It consists of exposition on how two losers invent a driveway game that becomes a national mania. Given the ludicrous premise, I am not sure how any exposition of it could be anything but boring.
Trey Parker and Matt Stone seem to be ardent and confirmed heterosexuals. But one or the other or both of them have a very gay sensibility. There were lots of gay jokes in this movie, none of which I found offensive. And for a movie aimed at teenaged boys, this is rare.
When the home team played the San Francisco Ferries (Their spelling, not mine) I was rolling on the floor. What a great joke. Actually an entire rift on gayness with quite a number of hilarious jokes.
In another scene, Trey and Matt kiss each other. A full contact, manly kiss. It was unself-conscious and appropriate. Not leering and dinigrating. Someone in another forum has mentioned that South Park Bigger, Longer, and Uncut is the gayest movie of 1999. After seeing Baseketball, I am looking forward to it with much anticipation.
38. JudithAtHome - 9/14/1999 9:41:05 AM
Hello Phoenix....welcome back.
39. theDiva - 9/14/1999 9:48:17 AM
Has anyone been watching An American Love Story on PBS this week?
40. Phoenix Rising - 9/14/1999 9:51:57 AM
Hi Judy. This may be temporary. I am reserving judgement.
41. theDiva - 9/14/1999 9:54:11 AM
Oh, PR, just keep yer buns here, will ya?
BTW, in total agreement on Woody. Deconstructing Harry was so awful and so profane that I could barely get through it. I think Woody may have used up the last of his creativity on EOSILY. Sad.
42. pellenilsson - 9/14/1999 10:46:18 AM
CalGal
MoteMovies?
43. Dantheman - 9/14/1999 10:52:22 AM
I have not truly enjoyed a Woody Allen movie since Bullets over Broadway. Like many other comedy writers (Mel Brooks and the Marx Brothers come readily to mind) he had a good 10-15 year run and is becoming too derivative of his earlier success.
44. JudithAtHome - 9/14/1999 10:55:00 AM
I enjoyed his middle years but I guess it's true: all good things must end.
45. Dantheman - 9/14/1999 11:08:01 AM
I even enjoyed his early years (Take the Money and Run, Sleeper, etc.), although they just weren't as good as he eventually got.
46. DocBrown - 9/14/1999 11:29:49 AM
I was glad to see that A&E's Horatio Hornblower won an Emmy for best miniseries. Even though the whole series was predictable melodrama, I thought it was wonderfully done and was sad to see it end. I hope A&E makes more of those classic Forrester novels into TV movies.
What do I know? I liked Titanic for the scenery.
47. Phoenix Rising - 9/14/1999 12:30:38 PM
I have really struggled to be fair about Woody Allen. He has made some of my all-time favorite films, many showing evidence of genius. Sleepers, Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex, Manhattan and Annie Hall.
But I don't even think he is derivitive as much as lazy. Celebrity seemed like a remake of Deconstructing Harry. He is now just making the same movie over and over again.
48. theDiva - 9/14/1999 12:31:39 PM
Ben
It's that vixen Soon-Yi. She has drained his manhood, the minx.
49. Phoenix Rising - 9/14/1999 12:35:00 PM
You think? She domesticated him. Too bad. I did read reviews of that self-serving jazz "autobiography" thingy he did. Many critics said Soon-Yi was by far the most grown up of the two.
50. theDiva - 9/14/1999 12:36:49 PM
See? There you go. She made him gasp contented!
51. Phoenix Rising - 9/14/1999 12:41:45 PM
More likely, she picks his socks up and makes sure he always has clean underwear.
Didn't he always have some sort of mother complex?
52. CalGal - 9/14/1999 12:47:47 PM
Pelle,
My lord. Can it be that simple? MoteMovies is far better than anything I'd thought of. What do others think?
Re: Woody
He's made at least three good to terrific movies in the Soon-ye Period:
53. CalGal - 9/14/1999 12:55:24 PM
Doc,
I thought of all the raves that Horatio Hornblower got in our earlier discussions and rejoiced when it won, even though I haven't seen it. It was nice to see A&E getting its due.
And cable in general did well. For all the (justified) bitching about the Sopranos near shut out, a star of cable TV series won an acting Emmy. First time ever. But her speech sucked.
Best speech of the night (not that that is saying much) was an early winner for writing. He said it was nice to know that in some way, however odd, whatever the method, he was considered better than David Kelley. "Michelle, are you listening?" Cut to Michelle Pffeifer (sp), Kelley's wife, looking bemused. If she'd had a clue, she would have laughed.
54. DocBrown - 9/14/1999 1:04:41 PM
CalGal: I did not watch the Emmies, so I appreciate you telling me that highlight. Anything else amusing in the show?
I don't know what other miniseries competed against Hornblower, but I would not be surprised to learn that its toughest competition was from other A&E shows. They seem to produce a lot of miniseries' lately. Hornblower obviously had a pretty large budget.
55. Raskolnikov - 9/14/1999 1:33:32 PM
Bullets Over Broadway was quite good as well.
56. CalGal - 9/14/1999 1:42:10 PM
Rask,
I wasn't sure if BoB was pre or post Mia, which is why I didn't mention it. I just looked it up, though, and it was made in 94. I thought it was earlier.
Yes, it was quite good--particularly Palmienteri, who hasn't been as funny since.
She ruins everything she's in. She ruins everything she's not in!
"Hey, Olive? You're a horrible actress." Bang.
57. JudithAtHome - 9/14/1999 1:44:17 PM
The most amusing thing about the Emmys was Sela Wards dress.
58. coralreef - 9/14/1999 2:10:46 PM
I'm in the group that thinks Allen peaked long before even Manhattan. Manhattan to me was a self-involved, unbearably boring and pretentious quasi-pedophile's ego trip, the sort of film that made me glad to see the market turn in the direction of fluff action films. Give me Rambo over Manhattan any day.
Woody, Robin Williams, Steve Martin...a lot of comedians seem to start out so clever and fun and become so "serious" and....unbearable.
I'm sure in 20 years we'll be having the Farrelly brothers sweep the Oscars with a treacly film. One of them is already starting in that direction with Providence, but that isn't pretentious enough to quite do the trick.
59. Raskolnikov - 9/14/1999 4:07:41 PM
I don't like Manhattan either. It has some great moments, and the photography is gorgeous, but I find the film's theme distasteful.
Allen has always been hit and miss. Even his early comedies were scattershot.
60. glendajean - 9/14/1999 4:10:34 PM
The best thing about Manhattan (the movie) was the Gershwin music linked to the black and white photography of fireworks. And the image of sitting at night in front of the Brooklyn Bridge. Allen makes Manhattan (the city) into a much more stunning place than in real life.
61. KurtMondaugen - 9/14/1999 4:11:05 PM
Best Woodies:
1. Stardust Memories
2. Interiors
uh...
3. Love and Death, I guess
62. KurtMondaugen - 9/14/1999 4:14:02 PM
4. Broadway Danny Rose
5. What's Up, Tiger Lily?
63. glendajean - 9/14/1999 4:18:08 PM
I liked Interiors when I first saw it, but I'm don't think its aged well.
Two favorite lines: Diane Keaton's character (a poet) talking about the middle sister who tries but never succeeds at artist endeavors --"Poor Joey, she has all the temperment of an artist, but none of the talent."
And M. Stapleton (the new wife to E.G. Marshall's character and the only person in the movie not wearing black or drab colors): "You only live once, but once is enough if you do it right."
64. KurtMondaugen - 9/14/1999 4:39:14 PM
Glenda:
None of the five films I mentioned have aged well at all, except for "Broadway Danny Rose".
65. glendajean - 9/14/1999 4:51:04 PM
BDR would be on my list of great Woody's. I'd also add Alice, Annie Hall, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Bullets Over Broadway, and Hannah and Her Sisters.
Second tier would include: Sleeper and the War and Peace parody.
66. KurtMondaugen - 9/14/1999 4:53:18 PM
"the War and Peace
parody."
Love and Death, I'll assume.
and, really..."Alice"?
67. theDiva - 9/14/1999 4:56:55 PM
Interesting comments here on Woody. I loved Manhattan when it was released, and the relationship between Woody's and Mariel's characters bothered me not one bit. Interesting what 20 years worth of perspective will do. Last time I saw it, I was horrified by that aspect of the film. The visual and musical elements held up well, however. I have always loved how Woody uses music in his films.....as color and as commentary. The scene in Radio Days where he uses the Mills Brothers' Paper Doll underneath a scene concerning his parents' marriage makes me cry every time I see it. Then there's Up the Lazy River in Bullets over Broadway....hilarious. He requires and anticipates a certain level of sophistication in his audience. I've always liked that about his work.
68. glendajean - 9/14/1999 5:30:56 PM
I can't believe I left Purple Rose of Cairo off my list.
69. moonflower - 9/14/1999 11:01:28 PM
I love Woody Allen's films! I did fall asleep during ZELIG, though. Maybe I need to give it another chance.
70. God - 9/14/1999 11:02:09 PM
Hi moonflower
Groovy handle, Baby!
71. JudithAtHome - 9/15/1999 9:56:37 AM
Is anyone watching the PBS program called An American Love Story...it's running over 5 nights and I taped the first 2, started to watch it and decided to skip it. Tell me if I've made a mistake so I can save the first 2 for when reruns start next year.
72. theDiva - 9/15/1999 10:16:12 AM
YES! YES!
I asked this yesterday, you must have missed it.
Sweetie and I are watching it, and truly enjoying it. (Of course, we have a particular interest in the topic.) Very moving in parts; the family is utterly engaging and very likeable (sp?).
73. JudithAtHome - 9/15/1999 10:21:08 AM
I think I'll give it another try...probably can still catch the gist, even if I missed last nights episode. I don't know why I was so distracted as to be unable to watch the first 4 hours...could've been because my husband is home for the week and we are doing the "share the video, TV, and computer" thing.
74. glendajean - 9/15/1999 10:23:47 AM
I had good intentions on watching it. But after traveling three weeks in a row, I landed at home Sunday night and forgot all about it. Diva, any highlights?
75. theDiva - 9/15/1999 10:29:14 AM
Well, it's very fluid, as you'd expect it would be given that the documentarian lived with the family for so long. One entire episode was devoted to the older daughter's trip to Nigeria for a semester. That was tough to watch, as she was so torn between the black and white students. The girl was obviously pained. It made me fretful and fearful for any child Sweetie and I may have someday.
76. glendajean - 9/15/1999 10:36:51 AM
I have a good friend (now widowed) whose husband was African American, she white. Her daughter is dark skinned, her son light skinned. She refused to let them label themselves when they were children, but they often did it anyway when mom wasn't around, saying things like "you're the white child" or "the black child."
It's a close family, and growing up in DC, didn't seem to be much of a problem, from what they've shared. Interestingly about this couple --she was originally from West Texas, where all her folks lived (read not necessarily enlightened on race). His parents were educators and not excited about a white daughter-in-law.
I gather at some point, race became a non-issue for their families.
77. theDiva - 9/15/1999 10:50:17 AM
Sweetie and I don't get much trouble either - mainly rude stares. I suspect it would be different if we lived elsewhere. And, if since you saw our wedding photos, you can probably guess how our families feel about the union. We've been blessed.
Now, the couple in the documentary moved from Ohio to NY because they did encounter problems - vandalism and harassment, if I recall correctly. Karen Wilson's (the wife) widowed mother is remarried to a man who is polite on the surface, but whom Karen suspects has real trouble with the interracial union. Bill Sims' family seems fine with it. One episode involves the elder Sims coming for a Christmas visit, and it's obvious that the family is close.
78. theDiva - 9/15/1999 10:50:43 AM
delete as appropriate.....if.....
79. KuligintheHooligan - 9/15/1999 1:34:05 PM
A quick question. Last night my wife and I rented the video "Enemy of the State." (when you only have ONE channel on television here in Namibia, you have to rent videos if you want to see anything decent) Anyway, I thought it was a great movie. But I seem to recall that it came out to very bad reviews. Is that correct? Did others enjoy the movie?
80. God - 9/15/1999 1:43:02 PM
I saw enemy of the state and I thoroughly enjoyed it, too. It got mixed reviews.
81. janjon - 9/15/1999 2:47:42 PM
Woody.
One of my all time favorites is PURPLE
Sorry, but I couldn't resist.
82. Phoenix Rising - 9/15/1999 3:12:42 PM
I too rented Enemy of the State. I enjoyed it at the time. I guess the only criticism I would level at it is that it is another forgettable action movie. I could see how it might resonate with the Black Helicopter crowd. Personally, I know first hand the Federal Government is too disorganized and unwieldy to be involved in a great conspiracy against people.
But I guess this now belongs in politics.
83. JudithAtHome - 9/15/1999 3:50:17 PM
Phoenix:
I always wondered how people could think the government could manage a good conspiracy when they can't even find out something like the Berlin Wall is about to topple.
84. JudithAtHome - 9/15/1999 3:51:26 PM
Naturally, I meant WAS about to....
85. CalGal - 9/15/1999 3:56:27 PM
Vic,
I liked Enemy of the State and thought it was one of the better action films from last year--the other one being Rush Hour (hey, it was a weak year).
I don't think it got bad reviews. It did poorly at the box office. In fact, it's my theory that it may have marked the end of the dominance of the action genre.
86. arkymalarky - 9/15/1999 8:02:22 PM
I watched the PBS show last night, and thought it was sort of slow, just like any family sitting around the house, debating boy rules for their daughter, etc. I didn't see any other parts, though.
One of the prettiest girls in the small high school where I teach is of a mixed-race two-parent household. She's very popular. Her parents were high school sweethearts.
87. glendajean - 9/15/1999 9:13:37 PM
Remember all those old Esther Wiliams movies? They're replaying them all night on Turner Classical Movies. Splash.
88. JudithAtHome - 9/15/1999 9:22:39 PM
Hey guys...read my post in News....
89. equilibrium - 9/16/1999 8:23:50 AM
I saw enemy of the state and enjoyed the flick, although it stretched credulity that this guy could consistently escape what appeared to be such a well organized gov't conspiracy. But I guess thats action flicks for ya!
I though rush hour was a blast!
90. JudithAtHome - 9/16/1999 10:09:55 AM
equilibrium:
Welcome to the Mote...we love hearing from anyone who likes movies.
91. Cellar Door - 9/16/1999 10:25:25 AM
From Esther Williams to (shudder) Will Smith.
Need I say more? The American Cinema is in ruins.
92. theDiva - 9/16/1999 10:27:20 AM
CELLAR!
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO!!!93. glendajean - 9/16/1999 10:27:36 AM
Cellar -- Welcome!
Since Esther's last movie was probably pre-1961, I doubt if you can pin current cinema problems on her. The only thing you can say about her now is that she couldn't handle Jeff Chandler's cross-dressing fetishes (see Vanity Fair).
94. JudithAtHome - 9/16/1999 10:38:32 AM
NOoooooooooooo!!! Don't tell me any thing kinky about JEFF! I spent my pre-to-early teenhood madly in love with him. (always had a thing for older guys)
95. Phoenix Rising - 9/16/1999 10:43:43 AM
Just cause someone is a little kinky doesn't mean you can't still love them. Take me for instance......(g)
96. glendajean - 9/16/1999 10:44:53 AM
Judith -- in the excerpt from her new book that's in Vanity Fair, her last words to him upon breaking up was, "This dress won't work. You're too big to wear polka dots."
They were madly in love, dated for 2 years, and then when he revealed his need/desire to wear women's clothes, she dumped him.
97. theDiva - 9/16/1999 10:45:01 AM
Ben, we love you because you're kinky.
98. Phoenix Rising - 9/16/1999 10:53:33 AM
Hmmmmmm. How big is too big to wear polka-dots? Didn't I see Devine in polka-dots once? Hairspray had both her and the FAT Ricki Lake in matching polka-dot outfits, if I remember correctly. And both were quite attractive (in a kinky flamboyant way).
99. theDiva - 9/16/1999 10:57:04 AM
I suppose it depends on the size of the polka dots, as well as the size of the bod they're encasing..
100. Phoenix Rising - 9/16/1999 10:59:17 AM
Well, in the case of Devine and Ricki, the dots were quite large and of a rather garish color. She didn't call herself "Devine" for nothing.
101. glendajean - 9/16/1999 11:01:28 AM
Well, it was the 50s, so their idea of polka dots and size were probably different than later standards.
102. JudithAtHome - 9/16/1999 11:01:38 AM
Phoenix:
You're right...kinky is as kinky does, I guess.
Any chance she's still vindictive and just said that to break MY heart? I don't care if he liked silks and feather boas...I still love the thrills I got from seeing him grab Lana Turner and others and pull them close and ravage them with kisses. Of course, now I know he was merely sizing up their wardrobes, my memories are a tad less steamy.
103. glendajean - 9/16/1999 11:02:56 AM
Judith, I got the impression that he really liked women, he just liked making love to them while he was wearing women's clothes.
104. Phoenix Rising - 9/16/1999 11:07:07 AM
Actually you and Jeff Chandler passionately kissing, in matching outfits, does have erotic possibilities, Judith.
Even I am getting a little turned on at the mental picture.
105. JudithAtHome - 9/16/1999 11:11:08 AM
Hmmmmmmm....tailored satin PJs and fuzzy slippers......you may have a point, Phoenix.
106. Phoenix Rising - 9/16/1999 11:14:30 AM
And with such exquisite taste, why shouldn't Jeff (or any man for that matter) covet your wardrobe as well as your embrace?
107. JudithAtHome - 9/16/1999 11:30:54 AM
OH, you DO know how to charm a girl. Yes, I bring out envy in men with my wardrobe frequently, especially my tuxedo from Neimans that I found at a thrift shop and had tailored to fit me...throw on a little silk t-shirt and a rhinestone brooch and the guys just slobber all over me.
108. Phoenix Rising - 9/16/1999 11:35:47 AM
Hmmmmmm. If that's what it takes, then I now covet your wardrobe. Send the overflow of slobbering guys my way!
109. JudithAtHome - 9/16/1999 11:40:16 AM
Well....I'll send them or the tux.
110. Raskolnikov - 9/16/1999 12:46:32 PM
Enemy of the State was a decent action film, primarily worthy for bringing attention to The Conversation, from which it borrows, and pays homage to, extensively. I thought the ending sucked, though.
Reviews were pretty good for an action film, and it did decent box office - $111 million domestic. It made money, and proved that Smith could open a picture solo.
111. KuligintheHooligan - 9/16/1999 2:26:48 PM
Thanks for the comments on "Enemy of the State" guys. I thought it was a great movie and am surprised it didn't do well, especially since it had Wil Smith in it and it was a good film.
Speaking of "Rush Hour," we rented that a couple of weeks ago. I loved that movie! I get mesmerized by Jackie Chan and find it so incredible how he uses standard "household" items in the fight scenes. Of course, I was a big Bruce Lee fan growing up too!
112. KuligintheHooligan - 9/16/1999 2:28:09 PM
Oh, it make $111 million?! I thought it did poorly. Guess I was mistaken, thanks Rasky.
113. God - 9/16/1999 2:29:16 PM
Vic
If that amazed you, you should see what Cal does with standard 'household' items.
114. CalGal - 9/16/1999 2:30:57 PM
Knock it off. I mean it. Take it to the Playpen.
115. JonesAtLaw - 9/16/1999 2:41:24 PM
god- I have created a mental image of CalGal which suits me quite well from my interactions with her here and in the Fray, (limited though they may be) Please do not clutter it up with revelations of real life that haven't been invited.
116. God - 9/16/1999 2:53:30 PM
That was a joke, Jones. Settle down, Cornholio. I don't know any personal information about Cal, and wouldn't want to.
117. Cellar Door - 9/16/1999 3:37:58 PM
Howzzat? If you're God you know everything.
Especially the "personal information."
118. CalGal - 9/16/1999 4:57:59 PM
Hey, Cellar. Any good movie news?
119. Cellar Door - 9/16/1999 5:05:14 PM
The best movie I've seen recently was Akira Kurosaw's last film "Mandadayo" (1993) which made its U.S. premiere on TCM. The critics have been doing handstands over "American Beauty," which I found just OK. People have been mentioning it mining middle-class angst territory re John Cheever. But it reminds me more of George Axelrod. Not as graceful, however. Conrad Hall has been, most justifiably, getting raves for his Cinematography. I thought Annette Benning was off somehow. Kudoes for Spacey -- in a part he could play blindfolded and hanging by his feet -- areprep for him sweeping the critics awards and getting an Oscar nom.
If he gets married and/or announces his engagement to somebeardorother, he's a shoo-in for the Oscar itself.
120. glendajean - 9/16/1999 5:13:25 PM
Celler -- or setting up the script for In and Out, Part II.
121. Cellar Door - 9/16/1999 7:12:24 PM
Yes. In and Out II: Back In
122. Blaise - 9/16/1999 7:56:24 PM
Hi Cellar Door! Good to see you here.
God: I heard a buzzing in my ear -- I believe it was a spiritual message of some sort but you're on the wrong frequency. Please send the message on a different channel. It's not coming through! This constant hum in my ear is annoying!
Blessings. Amen.
123. CalGal - 9/16/1999 7:58:16 PM
124. glendajean - 9/16/1999 8:56:00 PM
I'm going to watch Action, the new Fox sitcom tonight.
125. glendajean - 9/16/1999 10:14:45 PM
Action was ok. All nasty characters, but there is something appealing about Jay Mohr.
126. Ace of Spades - 9/16/1999 10:17:26 PM
hello? I think I'm Ace of Spades.
127. glendajean - 9/16/1999 10:18:31 PM
It's a miracle. He's back. :)
128. RosettaStone - 9/16/1999 11:18:20 PM
"Action" was excellent. It reminded me of the HBO's "Larry Sanders Show," and, according to Tom Shales in the Washington Post, Fox picked it up when HBO turned it down.
For commercial TV, the humor was very adult and pretty funny. Hope it succeeds.
129. CalGal - 9/16/1999 11:37:05 PM
Oh, GJ--I meant to mention that I watched the Strange Justice movie the other day. Very good, actually.
130. glendajean - 9/16/1999 11:55:44 PM
Didn't I tell you? Much better that I would have predicted.
131. CalGal - 9/16/1999 11:57:04 PM
I liked the approach of showing how they must have felt, as they said the words, rather than a dull, dry, recitation. Both Lindo and Taylor were awesome (I've liked them both for a long time), and Patinkin was, as always, superb.
132. glendajean - 9/17/1999 12:01:01 AM
Yeah, my criticism of most fictional re-telling of actual events is that the creators make up crap. And it's not just in bio-pics. It's also in books like doofus Woodward at the W. Post.
But in Strange Justice, they took the actual words that we probably remember from real life, and give an interpretation of those words, an emotional interpretation. Very powerful.
Didn't you find the clip from Orrin Hatch bizarre and funny?
133. CalGal - 9/17/1999 12:06:18 AM
The whole thing was bizarre, in any event.
What I found fascinating is that Thomas rejected the handlers and went out on his own. And saved his ass--and his court seat--in the bargain.
134. glendajean - 9/17/1999 12:07:55 AM
Sweetie, don't underestimate the power of the lobby boys. They were working overtime.
135. floater - 9/17/1999 12:09:48 AM
Are there any good movies recently released on video? I'm itching to rent a movie tonight. Any suggestions? Please, if it's rated R, keep in mind that I am easily offended by vulgarities. Language can be tolerable, but I hate graphic violence.
136. glendajean - 9/17/1999 12:10:27 AM
BTW, Cal, hope you watch Action tonight. Interested in your reaction. Goodnight.
137. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 1:45:49 AM
floater: We just saw a very funny movie called "Elvis Meets Nixon." (I'm pretty sure that's the title). Hilarious story and it really happened.
138. moonflower - 9/17/1999 8:41:45 AM
Why is the Weather Channel so addictive? I know lots of people who watch it routinely, know the names of the weather "personalities," get crushes on some of them. I find I turn it on maybe 5 times a day.
Not for long stretches, but it's kind of "there"--and the little reports don't say all that much.
139. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 9:06:20 AM
moonflower: how right you are. Even my kids will watch it. It took hold last summer when we were on the ocean at Atlantic Beach, NC, in a huge time-share condo with lots of windows on the ocean with cable TV and a hurricane moving up the Gulf Stream. We all could see the ocean and sky change while watching that addictive spiral red/white glob on the Weather Channel.
It was the first time that they saw how a weather system works.
140. Ace of Spades - 9/17/1999 9:08:02 AM
Nixon gave Elvis some sort of Badge, making him an honorary DEA agent or something.
True fact.
I think it WAS the DEA, too.
141. Dantheman - 9/17/1999 9:08:52 AM
Glendajean,
I saw the first 5-10 minutes of Action, turned it off and saw the Frazier rerun. I simply don't see much humor in being uncreatively nasty to people, and that was all the first few minutes were. I don't mind creative nastiness (see Fawlty Towers), but this was just dull.
142. Ace of Spades - 9/17/1999 9:09:55 AM
I saw the end of Frazier. LOVE that "Goldfinger" ending.
I've seen that Frazier-- just the end of it-- twice. Pretty much the only Frazier I've ever seen.
143. Ace of Spades - 9/17/1999 9:11:21 AM
From Cinescape:
‘X-Men’ Movie Info
Forget the rumors, it appears to finally be a done deal that actor James Marsden (Disturbing Behavior, Sugar and Spice) will play Cyclops in The X-Men movie whom a knowledgeable insider reports was one of 15 possible candidates eligible for the role. According to Variety columnist Michael Fleming, who has been fairly reliable in the X-Men casting scoops, Marsden finally got the role that will have him playing the mutant in the red quartz colored glasses who is at odds with the feral mutant Wolverine, played by Dougray Scott, for the affections of Jean Grey, played by Famke Janssen. Production is scheduled to start in October.
144. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 9:13:22 AM
Ace: I know you were busy last night (!!!) but you should have watched "Action."
One of the characters is a screen writer and I thought of you.
Tom Shales did a good review in yesterday's paper.
145. Ace of Spades - 9/17/1999 9:18:46 AM
Rosetta:
I wanted to watch it, but the girlfriend wanted to watch fucking "Charmed," that stupid witch movie on the WB.
I saw five minutes of Action and thought it was a bit flat. It might have potential, but I don't know. My take was sort of like Dantheman's: I don't MIND nasty characters, but it's not like you can just write nasty characters and think you're work is done for you. The first five minutes of Action, it seemed, was trying to hard to be nasty.
146. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 9:23:35 AM
Oh, it's very nasty but, supposedly, that what it takes to make it in Hollywood.
Look at our very own Basement Door.
I'm going to dig up the Shales review for your enjoyment.
147. Ace of Spades - 9/17/1999 9:25:13 AM
Rosetta:
It doesn't matter. I can't watch it. The girlfriend watches fucking "Charmed."
Wouldn't matter if watching it was as pleasurable as getting a blowjob from a Swedish voleyball co-ed while simultaneously having liquified crack injected directly into the center of the brain.
I'm watching "Charmed.'
148. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 9:31:14 AM
Time to get a second TV, then. Or, a new girlfriend.
I've got to do some work and will be offline for a couple of hours.
I guess what impresses me about "Action" is that it's on commercial TV. Although we have cable, we don't get HBO so I've rarely seen "The Larry Sanders Show."
(I've got to go and do some work now and be offline. BTW, Although I disagree with some of your arguments last night, CalGal should know that she has a real friend in you. That was the only thing nice to read...)
Mabye someday it will be on the Comedy Channel.
149. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 9:32:39 AM
Darn: I miss the edit button that TT offers. Should delete second graf.
150. Raskolnikov - 9/17/1999 10:10:37 AM
Ace: Do you know that VCRs can record one channel while you watch another? Technology is a wonderful thing.
151. PsychProf - 9/17/1999 10:39:01 AM
BASEBALL MOVIES
click on image
152. Ace of Spades - 9/17/1999 10:40:51 AM
Rask:
1) My VCR is broken. It plays, but does not record.
2) I never was a "recorder" anyway. Either I watch it when it's on or I don't watch it. TV's a waste of time. I use TV to waste A LOT of time, but I don't record my time-wasting media.
153. Raskolnikov - 9/17/1999 11:01:38 AM
Luddite.
154. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 11:32:15 AM
Thanks for the link and graphic, professor. I've got to say that if there is anyone who is going to make this place work, it's PP.
His sports thread ROCKS and I love his editing.
155. Cellar Door - 9/17/1999 11:47:39 AM
Actually Hollywood is a lovely town, full of deeply sincere, caring and helping individuals. Just look at the way Michael Fleming of "Daily Variety" has cometo the aide Kevin Spacey, for instance.
156. JudithAtHome - 9/17/1999 11:52:35 AM
We record time-wasting things on network TV and then fast forward thru the commercials so we don't feel as bad wasting time. Ace, if you are watching Charmed, you ARE wasting time...it's just a matter of perspective.
I thought Action was great; a lot of the "little" touches charmed(!) me like Dragon saying to the nerd writer "I loved you last project! What was it again?" and the writer says, "Two Guys, A Girl, And A Pizza Place" which is the absolute pits of a show on ABC.
157. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 12:03:03 PM
The screenwriter is named Adam Rafkin whom Dragon, the movie producer of the bomb "Slow Torture", keeps confusing with Alan Rifkin.
158. JudithAtHome - 9/17/1999 1:27:34 PM
Rosetta:
Didn't you think the movie producer married to Dragons ex-wife bore an uncanny resemblance to Barry Diller?
I loved the restaurant, LePrix, with the snotty maitre'd, too. Speaking phonetically, that restaurant name is perfect. I was also impressed with Big Dick and his hommage to the character from Pulp Fiction. But the best thing about BD was his riff on Truffaut and "Day for Night", one of the all time great movies about movies.
159. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 2:04:20 PM
From Tom Shales' review in yesterday's Washington Post;
"Action," Fox's beautifully brutal spoof of modern-day Hollywood, is fantastic, funny, fascinating, ferocious--F-words being particularly appropriate to this show--but for all its nasty hilarity, a nagging question persists. Is it a satire, or a documentary?"
And, this is from a reviewer. who fucking hates Fox TV.
160. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 4:33:48 PM
Just curious about the technology here at the mote.
Does mote have the ability to link to movie trailers and other promotional video or cyber items the way the PP is doing in the Sports section?
161. JudithAtHome - 9/17/1999 5:45:38 PM
Rosetta:
You seem to be the only other person who watched Action last night...I've tried to engage you in a discussion of the show, to no avail. Are you peeved at me?
162. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 5:52:26 PM
No, of course not, Judith. You are one of the nicest people here. i did respond (sort of) with my Shales quote.
What impresses me about Fox's "Action" is that it's on commercial TV, not cable and is a comedy without a laugh track.
I also thought that Illeana Douglas as Wendy Ward, a hooker turned movie studio exec is a great hook.
The scene where the producer Dragon was looking at "Joel Silver" penis was also great. I had a problem keeping my kids out of the room when that happened!
163. JudithAtHome - 9/17/1999 6:03:13 PM
Rosetta:
Yes, that was great! We taped it and watched it this morning and we kept running the tape back to see if we heard what we thought we heard. Wendy was very good; the entire sequence leading up to how she got her "title" was a terrific commentary on Hollywood. Maybe I'm reading more into this show than I should but I think it is satire worthy of Swift.
You mentioned you don't have HBO...you ought to invest in it. (Go ahead and LAUGH, everyone....Miss "I Don't Have Cable And Never Will" is now hawking premium channels all over the place!) The Sopranos and Larry Sanders make the entire monthly cable bill well worth it.
164. glendajean - 9/17/1999 6:07:32 PM
Judith -- it's obvious that Fox is trying to do an HBO type series. I thought it was funny (and as I said earlier) I thought Jay Mohr was appealing. For a jerk, he was kind of likable.
I wonder how long they can sustain it, though. But really. How can you knock a series that has a line that "Tom Hanks doesn't go the extra mile because he can't hack his wife into bits" to an agent selling an actor with a bit of a problem, but with great name recognition, OJ Simpson.
165. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 6:09:41 PM
Now I understand how you know all the lines to the show! You taped it.
I was dealing with the kids and trying to read mote's meltdown. I alos liked the scenes in the restaurant and the screenwriter's body language when he became blood brothers with Dragon and asked him if he wore condoms.
On commercial TV, no less.
166. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 6:16:17 PM
And Judith, I read somewhere else (probably on TT) how you just got cable and love MTV's "Real World". I got a big laugh out of that.
I think Ace said that it was scripted. That was news to me.
My kids watch it religiously sorta like people used to watch soap operas on week-afternoon TV. Actually, that's exactly what it is. Just better edited.
167. JudithAtHome - 9/17/1999 6:16:39 PM
Rose & Glendaj:
I think they pitched this to HBO and they passed on it so Fox grabbed it. Turn abouts fair play: the Sopranos was offered to network and THEY passed on it. They are saying, depending on who you listen to, that this will be the start of either an edgier network approach or the end of the networks as they slide down to the gutter with cable.
Yes, I did re-hear a lot of the dialogue but I have fairly good recall of totally useless information anyhow. It's the "other" stuff I have to write down, like dentists appointments, etc.
168. JudithAtHome - 9/17/1999 6:23:24 PM
Rosetta:
Please read my contributions to the Real World thread over there; I am as a voice crying in the wilderness amongst the kiddies who spend days and days obsessing over Colin & Amaya and Justin. I just LOVE it...they never address me directly and one guy waits for about 30 minutes and co-opts all my good lines, just changing them slightly. I feel like getting REALLY catty with them but they are so young, so innocent....HA!
169. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 6:26:52 PM
From Shales' review:
"On the day after the 'Slow Torture' premiere, Dragon and company attend what looks like a gay Christmas beach party in Malibu. Here the show reaches dangerous heights of irreverence, using Christmas songs as counterpoint or comment on "Action's" action. The piece de resistance, so to speak, is when Dragon gets a look at the enormous endowment of a studio boss as he steps from the shower. On the soundtrack: "Do you See What I See?"
170. RosettaStone - 9/17/1999 6:28:51 PM
Gotta go. Good talking to you.
171. JudithAtHome - 9/17/1999 7:32:55 PM
This is adios for me, too...have a nice weekend, everyone.
172. TabouliJones - 9/18/1999 2:01:16 AM
Re. Real World:
I've never seen the original, but one of the funniest things I heve seeen on t.v. was a spoof of it on The John Larroquette show. The spoof featured the wonderful Darryl Mitchell, currently being wasted on Veronica's Closet, and was absolutely hilarious.
I'd also like to point out that I am not God -- or God is not my double --, just on the off chance that anyone took our similar locales as indicative of me messing around with a double identity. Just trying to prevent confusion. Now, onto other things:
Last week's New Yorker had an insightful article on Richard Pryor. It had a wonderful account of his cutting edge work with Lily Tomlin on her short lived "Lily" show. Does anyone out there remember it?
Another pivotal t.v. moment recounted in the article, from 1980:
Barbara Walters: When you're onstage . . . see, it's hard for me to say. I was going to say, you talk about niggers. I can't . . . you can say it. I can't say it.
Richard Pryor: You just said it.
Walters: Yeah, but I feel so . . .
Pryor: You said it very good
Walters: . . . uncomfortable.
Pryor: Well, good. You said it pretty good.
Walters: O.K.
Pryor: That's not the first time you said it. (Laughter)
I can imagine the scene in my head, and it makes me laugh out loud.
173. God - 9/18/1999 2:02:28 AM
Hi Tabouli
What do you mean you're not me, since when?
==):-)
174. TabouliJones - 9/18/1999 2:06:21 AM
Well,
Some say I'm godlike (ok my mother), but I'm not, andnever have been, God. (Insert smiley thingy)
175. God - 9/18/1999 2:08:14 AM
Tabouli
Just giving Glendajean the conspiracy queen something else to think about. I'm hoping that by the end of the month I'll have her believing that everyone else here is me. Tabouli's NOT me, Glendajean, absolutely NOT.
==):-)
176. TabouliJones - 9/18/1999 2:14:50 AM
No comment re. alleged conspiracy queens or anyone else for that matter -- just trying to minimize potential confusion. Cheers.
177. Cellar Door - 9/18/1999 9:59:20 AM
The Richard Pryor article was excellent. I interviewed him once for that truly pathetic lastfilm he did with Gene Wilder. A deeply sad, extraordinarily sweet man, seemingly held together with scotch tape and spit. I've never seen such worried handlers in my life.
178. RosettaStone - 9/18/1999 10:03:49 AM
Cellar: Does he have any scars on his face from the crack-smoking episode? I always thought that's what did him in.
179. TabouliJones - 9/18/1999 11:28:05 AM
Cellar,
The article has really peaked my interest in Pryor's work, and Lily Tomlin's as well. I thought the exchange with Walters was brilliant in the way that it cut through her sanctimony and placed him in control of the interview. Re. his handlers, the article quoted some funny, but sad, exchanges between Pryor and the women taking care of him. Like you said, the article is excellent. I recommend it highly.
180. Cellar Door - 9/18/1999 12:14:54 PM
It's not facial scars so much as whole areas of tissue. He burned his chest, neck and part of his face. So damned sad.
181. CalGal - 9/18/1999 6:14:06 PM
What happened to Pryor? How does someone stop being funny?
And yes, I've always thought the loss of him over the past 15 years or so was terribly sad.
182. CalGal - 9/18/1999 6:15:06 PM
183. God - 9/18/1999 6:16:07 PM
Is this supposed to be a secret? He abused drugs to the extreme and his brain went to mush. Of course you can stop being funny.
184. Chris J. - 9/18/1999 6:50:28 PM
Pryor was out of control with his life, with drugs, with fame, with living large.
But man he was funny and had one hell-of-an impact.
He's paying big time for his abuses and it's a sad thing indeed.
His daughter Rain by the way is on that terrible ShowTime show
with Sherilyn Lee and uh.. Redgrave.... Title escapes me but
it's about Sherilyn being a recovering alcoholic, got some good reviews. but I can't figure out why.
Yep, new here. Hello everyone.
185. CalGal - 9/18/1999 6:57:35 PM
Hi, Chris!
Rude Awakening is the show.
I know about Pryor's drug usage, of course. But I've never seen drug abuse make someone less funny in the way that Pryor's humor disintegrated. Out of control, sure. But to go from rapid-fire brilliance to sugary sweet awwwww, isn't this cute? comedy that characterized his later films?
I can't think of another example of a comedian who lost his sense of humor because of drug use. Lost his career and his life, sure. But his sense of humor?
186. Chris J. - 9/18/1999 7:06:21 PM
uh.... Lenny Bruce. . . lost his humor because of combo of drug abuse and harassment. And then he lost his life.
Lenny Bruce and Mort Sahl paving the way for comedians to talk about whatever they want. Bill Cosby, making it possible for anyone to get up and talk about whatever they wanted.
Pryor and Carlin took the place of Bruce essentially.
Sahl is still kicking, but I guess the inheritor of Sahl is Dennis Miller.
Thanks C.G.
Hey anyone around this place familiar with the dynamite french film,
Lovers on the Bridge ?
Go see it if you get a chance. You'll kick yourself in the ass if you have to opportunity to see it on the big screen and pass it up.
Also The Grand Illusion, Renoir's classic is making the rounds and has a meticulously restored print that is not to be missed.
GO...
187. CalGal - 9/18/1999 7:12:48 PM
Chris,
Don't forget to put away your toys. (and don't feel bad; everyone does it sometimes.)
And I'm not making myself clear about Pryor--it was a small point. Yes, some comedians go out of control as you describe. But Pryor just seem to morph into an entirely different person--slow and syrupy sweet.
Thanks for the heads up about Grand Illusion. Have you seen The Third Man on its rounds?
188. CalGal - 9/18/1999 7:13:32 PM
Whoops. You must have used two different bold tags.
189. Cellar Door - 9/18/1999 8:11:32 PM
Hey Chris, "Lovers On the Bridge" aka. "Les Amants du Pont-Neuf" has been an obsession of mind for years. it was four years in the making. Three different film companies went bankrupt financing it. Carax was madly in love with Juliette Binoche when he made it. It was a tribute to her. But by the time it was all over their love died. She broke her leg during the water skiing sequence.
I'm beginning to feel there's something innately destructive about stand-up and certain forms of "samurai comedy." Consider Lenny Bruce, Ricahrd Pryor, John Belushi, Chris Farley. Martin Lawrence is in a coma. Andy Dick is in rehab. And then there's poor Phil Hartman.
I don't blame Steve Martin for getting out when he did.
I just hope Chris Rock can hold it together and not end up like a train wreck.
190. joezan - 9/18/1999 8:22:11 PM
Chris Rock has got his s**t together in a BIG way. With those other guys, I think, you could see the wreck coming from a long way off...(maybe it was their pacing?).
Rock has gotten slowly, consistently better, has never had too many projects going at the same time, and, I think, doesn't take himself terribly seriously.
191. CalGal - 9/18/1999 8:37:09 PM
I'm beginning to feel there's something innately destructive about stand-up and certain forms of "samurai comedy."
Is it possible that it's the other way round? That the people drawn to that sort of out on the edge comedy are innately self-destructive? Martin Lawrence is another example.
I agree about Rock, btw, Joe. He seems to have his act together.
Hartman never seemed the same sort of comic--I thought of him as a comic actor, not a comedian. He also seemed a different profile, of sorts--more the abused spouse, if what I read about his relationship with his wife is true.
192. glendajean - 9/18/1999 8:55:53 PM
One of the lesser high holidays in the gay world is the Miss America pageant. I've never quite understood why and I get bored easily. But is there a possibility ABC could channel the spirit of Bert Parks?
I thought Regis and Kathy Lee were bad, but Donny & Marie?
This year, each state rep had a cause listed. I'd love it if Miss Texas had said "I support the right to own handguns and the protection of the 2nd Amendment" or Miss New York had said something like "Get outta my face. I'm divorced and I had an abortion. Screw you."
Instead, it sounded like they gave them a list of illnesses and the contestants checked one off. Asthma research was big.
193. joezan - 9/18/1999 8:56:20 PM
Cal:
Also, I don't think Rock's got any delusions (well, not that I can see, anyway), about going out and being a big Hollywood Star. I believe he's comfortable being a great stand-up guy.
(Now watch him make a liar outta me by taking a part opposite Whitney Houston in some "romantic comedy"....).
194. CalGal - 9/18/1999 9:00:18 PM
GJ,
I haven't figured out how to add links to the front page yet. But when I do, I will add your Miss America post to the list. I'm still laughing.
195. CalGal - 9/18/1999 9:01:57 PM
Joe,
I don't think movies contribute to the destruction, though. Besides, I think Rock was in Dr. Doolittle, wasn't he? Had a wonderful love scene with Eddie Murphy.
196. glendajean - 9/18/1999 9:02:58 PM
Glad to oblige. Your humble correspondent.
197. glendajean - 9/18/1999 9:06:41 PM
The Washington Post had some pretty funny stories today about Miss America pageant. This little tidbit. Miss Hawaii's mom makes all her clothes.
Miss Hawaii showed up at the beginning looking like a Las Vegas cocktail waitress from Hell. Very bizarre.
198. joezan - 9/18/1999 9:11:04 PM
Cal:
Well, yea...
...but do you really think a guy who took his acting seriously would debut in Dr. Doolittle?
I'd be very disappointed if he ever took a big role in anything with a diva in it....very bad sign, imo.
199. Phoenix Rising - 9/18/1999 9:23:03 PM
Lovers On the Bridge" aka. "Les Amants du Pont-Neuf"
The Bridge in question is not just any bridge. Pont Neuf is a very specific bridge. Therefore, the english translation should be "Lovers On THE Bridge".
200. Chris J. - 9/18/1999 10:54:51 PM
Rock does seem to have his act together better than most.
But he's pretty young.
He went ballistic and over the edge at the MTV awards, and did a kind of Black Don Rickle's act. Hey it works... it was funny and I watched
more of the show then I would have were he not the host with the most acid tongue of all.
Carlin, held together... despite the drug abuse, and the heart attacks, he's still with us, and still extremely funny.
Dennis Miller, who I sometimes like a lot, but usually am dissapointed with, seems extremely well adjusted.
There's a few guys who've been doing standup for years who are still
doing pretty well.
201. CalGal - 9/18/1999 11:01:38 PM
Yeah, Carlin's an example of that edgy over the top type who usually falls apart--and, as you point out, he made it. He even periodically does time in movies.
Miller isn't really over the top; he's a ranter. And yeah, it cracks me up--he's happily married, kids, the works.
202. Cellar Door - 9/18/1999 11:08:01 PM
Do you know some of the history of "Les Amants"? The set was destroyed by the elements and had to be revbuilt twice
Carax is quite a character. I first met him when Binoche was doing publicity on "The Unbearable Lightness of Being." He was trailing around L.A. with her like an attentive puppy dog. A year after "Les Amants" was released in France to utter public indifference, he showed up in L.A. I was at the Chateau Marmont to see Gus, and there was Carax in the lobby.
Me: Hey, how's it going?
Carax: . . . . .Oh. . ..(shrug)
Me: Is your film playing here?
Carax: (long pause) Well. . .I'm showing it tonight. . .Do you want to see it?
Me: DO I?!?!
Carax: Really?. . .Well . . .I'm going to show it at Universal to some people. . .I would like for people here to see it. . . .but my producers are asking for SOOO much money.
Me: Why?
Carax: Because they Hat Me!
Me: Oh.
Carax: (Shrug)
So I went to Universal and saw it on the big screen at the Hitchcock theater with an audience of distributors and Carl Reiner and Mel Brooks.
Not much applause when it was over -- save for me, Carl Reiner and Mel Brooks.
203. Phoenix Rising - 9/18/1999 11:29:07 PM
Great story, Cell.
I haven't seen the film, but I have been in love in the middle of the Pont Neuf. So I relate.
Is the hostess ignoring us or is it her oft stated distaste for films with subtitles?
204. CalGal - 9/18/1999 11:44:33 PM
Actually, you couldn't find even one post where I say I don't like subtitles. You could find several posts where I express my disdain for dubbing.
I don't think it's required that I join every conversation. I've been reading it with interest. To say nothing of the fact that I've got a GUI to build.
And stop being nasty. You are violating the tone of the thread. When speaking to or of other Mote member, "snide" is completely disallowed. As are "bitchy", "catty", and "obnoxious".
All such emotions should be directed at movie stars and very bad TV shows. The occasional critic.
Heat, sarcasm, impatience, and arrogance are the allowable negative emotions when in the midst of passionate movie debates.
I trust this is clear. I believe that the Mote Cafe and the Playpen allow the emotions you wish to express.
205. Phoenix Rising - 9/18/1999 11:53:55 PM
"snide" is completely disallowed. As are "bitchy", "catty", and "obnoxious".
Heat, sarcasm, impatience, and arrogance are the allowable negative emotions when in the midst of passionate movie debates.
Gee, I wonder what the difference is.
No, wait. I am smart enough to figure this out: If Phoenix says it, it is snide and obnoxious. If GalGal says it, it is just impatience.
I can see I am not long for this world.
206. CalGal - 9/18/1999 11:56:30 PM
You are still being nasty, Phoenix. Please take it to the appropriate thread.
207. Phoenix Rising - 9/18/1999 11:57:43 PM
Actually a legitimate question. What is the difference?
208. CalGal - 9/19/1999 12:14:01 AM
Phoenix,
I am worn out with policy discussions, so I'm going to leave it as it is and not get drawn into this.
I will leave it with this:
Example of the first: See the last sentence of #203. Not related to movies, unpleasant, and gratuitous. And then there's the small point that it was inaccurate.
Example of the second: "What are you, insane? Who the hell thinks those kids died of natural causes!! Were you actually watching the damn movie, or were you distracted in a search for a cherry-flavored Starburst?"
That is the last post I will make on the subject. No response necessary; take it elsewhere.
209. RosettaStone - 9/19/1999 12:21:34 AM
Pam and I came home from a dinner party to find out that my son has rented "My Favorite Martian" from Blockbusters.222
There goes his allowance for next week. But, the big question is, is it worth watching?
210. RosettaStone - 9/19/1999 12:24:05 AM
Oops...That 222 was suppose to be @#$%&&*!
211. CalGal - 9/19/1999 12:26:06 AM
It got dreadful reviews, I seem to recall. I haven't seen it. You can look it up in the IMD and check out the review page. That'll give you a feel for what the critics said.
I doubt it's dreadful. Just ordinary.
212. RosettaStone - 9/19/1999 12:36:22 AM
I didn't even know it had even been made into a movie--and I read the Style section of the newspaper.
The only good remake of a lousy TV series into a funny Mmovie was "The Brady Bunch." My daughters really liked it, especially the middle child.
Good night
213. Phoenix Rising - 9/19/1999 12:39:01 AM
As I suspected.
Truly sorry that you don't recognize how offensive you are to "newbies".
Good luck with your forum. And I mean that in all sincerity.
214. joezan - 9/19/1999 12:42:47 AM
Aw, come on, you guys...can't we all get along?
215. joezan - 9/19/1999 12:44:01 AM
...it's a slow-loader, but well worth the wait...
216. RosettaStone - 9/19/1999 1:02:12 AM
Oh, be nice benear. Everyone hates everyone here. That's what makes a modern community function.
217. RosettaStone - 9/19/1999 1:06:01 AM
Actually that was a pretty stupid thing for me to write. I don't believe that. And I shouldn't have posted since all the lights are out and we have clean linen on the bed.
Out, out damn spot!
218. God - 9/19/1999 2:14:01 AM
Is nobody else a little troubled by CalGal's complete overreaction to Phoenix' innocuous post? If nobody else is, please everyone just ignore this, but if any of you have a sense that Cal owes Phoenix an apology for this completely inappropriate outburst, please join me in saying so. This will be my only post on the subject.
219. God - 9/19/1999 3:03:48 AM
Sorry, I meant only post on this subject HERE. (Yes, I know, technically I'm up to 2 posts now.)
220. God - 9/19/1999 3:23:58 AM
On another note ...
I, too, watched bits of the Miss America pageant. I was amazed at how plain most of the contestants were, and of the 5 finalists, only 1 would I consider a 9 (speaking physically) and it seemed like the judges were deliberately implementing affirmative action in their voting choices. There was one truly homely woman with Asian features (please don't interpret this as a slur, there are many beautiful Asian women, but this one was a dog) who made it all the way to the final 5.
221. God - 9/19/1999 3:26:42 AM
(Actually, maybe there were 10 finalists, like I said, bits and pieces.)
222. God - 9/19/1999 3:43:27 AM
Transferred From Sports Thread
636. EricCartman - 9/19/99 3:18:06 AM
God:
No, I'm not cartmhan. I used to be "cartman69" at the other place. I recall you vaguely as CatintheHat, but it's been a while. Thanks for the welcome, though.
As far as I can tell, most everyone knows who Eric Cartman is, even if they're not regular SP watchers. I have a feeling not everyone gets my TT handle, though.
637. God - 9/19/99 3:19:09 AM
Which is?
638. EricCartman - 9/19/99 3:22:06 AM
Frederick J. Frenger, Jr.
639. God - 9/19/99 3:27:59 AM
I must have missed that episode, or is that not South Park related?
640. EricCartman - 9/19/99 3:33:00 AM
Ever see "Miami Blues"? It's the real name of Alec Baldwin's charcter, who goes by the alias of "Herman Gottlieb" for most of the movie.
Man does not live by South Park alone, though I'm still itching to see the SP movie again.
641. God - 9/19/99 3:34:45 AM
Yeah, me too.
642. EricCartman -9/19/99 3:40:00 AM
Generally, I strongly dislike musicals, at least ones with "show tunes". But I actually liked most all the songs. How can anyone not like a song like "Uncle Fucka"?
I suppose this should be in the movies thread. I've been away for a couple weeks, so I assume PP will understand.
223. God - 9/19/1999 3:44:58 AM
Yeah, I felt the same way. When the movie started and it became clear that it was a musical, I was like 'What the fuck is this?' But I decided to give it a chance and ended up loving it. I think they had to make it a musical so that non-South Park fans could 'get it.'
224. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 3:50:21 AM
Ha! I was just combing through this thread to see what the current topic is, and I see that God (with his celestial powers, I imagine) has transferred our recent conversation.
But I was actually fascinated by the fact that people still watch the Miss America pageant. I stopped watching it when I was about 9 or 10, 'cause "Charlie's Angels" came on the air, and there was much more cheesecake on that show than any pageant. Even "Battle of the Network Stars" had a higher jiggle quotient.
I can't comment on the visual quality of the current crop of contestants, of course, since I haven't seen 'em, but I also wondered what the hell the judges were basing their picks on, 'cause they picked the right ones. The most inane answer, I guess. Strange custom, beauty pageants are.
225. God - 9/19/1999 3:53:49 AM
Miss America or Syracuse vs. Michigan, tough call.
(Oops, came over here from sports because we started discussing a movie, now we're going to start back on sports.)
226. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 3:55:40 AM
God:
From what I've heard in interviews with Trey Parker, he is actually quite a fan of Broadway musicals, especially "Les Miserables", in which show he apparently once had the misfortune to witness a startlingly bad performance by Latin salsa/disco queen Ricky Martin.
Also, what Parker supposedly didn't want to do is just make an extended episode of SP, which was a relief to me. That would have fucked the whole movie up.
I don't go see very many movies in the theater, but 10 minutes into the SP movie, I already wanted to see it again.
227. God - 9/19/1999 3:56:47 AM
Then I ended up watching some silly Cher movie from 1987, I forget what it's called. She plays a public defender who defends this deaf, homeless, Vietnam vet who's accused of murder.
228. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 3:58:47 AM
Syracuse vs. Michigan, would have been cool, if I'd known it was on. I watched SDSU vs. USC until it started looking like a blowout. Not that that stopped me from savoring every second of watching the Jaguars dismantle the Niners last Sunday. Truly a moment of rare beauty, that was. The only thing missing was Young hollering at Mariucci, or Rice yelling at anybody.
229. God - 9/19/1999 3:58:56 AM
I watched bits of SNL, afterward. Ricky Martin was the musical guest (I think it was from April or something). He's nothing special, kind of like a male Brittany (or is it Britney) Spears. It was also the SNL where Monica made an appearance. She was horrible. Much more impressive in the Baba Wawa interview.
230. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 4:00:29 AM
Then I ended up watching some silly Cher movie from 1987, I forget what it's called. She plays a public defender who defends this deaf, homeless, Vietnam vet who's accused of murder.
Two words: satellite system. Trust me, you'll never regret it. I have no idea which Cher movie that is; the only one I've seen is "Mask".
231. God - 9/19/1999 4:02:26 AM
I know PP would cut us some slack for discussing Movies in there, but CalGal won't be as kind if we discuss sports here (read the last 25-30 posts and you'll see what I'm talking about).
Anyway, I saw the South Park movie on opening night. I think an extra long episode would also have worked if it had had a good premise. I didn't want to feel cheated by a South Park movie that betrayed the tv show. But like you said, it was awesome.
232. God - 9/19/1999 4:04:03 AM
I don't even have cable. When I desperately want a TV fix, I visit my parents (the food ain't bad there, either.)
233. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 4:05:42 AM
I saw that SNL the first time around, though I switched it when Ricky came on. It's not that the guy is tremendously horrible, more that the hype is too much for someone of obviously limited talent, as well as the boring predictability of the actual songs. I just don't get it, nor did I when I was in that demographic.
Dude, you watched the Monica/Baba Wawa interview? And found either one of them something other than loathsome???
234. God - 9/19/1999 4:09:18 AM
Watched it? I taped it and still have the tape. In fact, it's the ONLY tape I have. I haven't rewatched it, but I really felt at the time that it was worth saving.
235. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 4:10:52 AM
I read back to 192 or so, where Glendajean was saying something about the MA pageant being an unofficial gay holiday (which the one gay person I know seems to agree with). I don't know how much you lurked in the old Fray, but Phoenix and Cal have had issues with one another for some time. I recognize subtle cattiness when I see it, and I know who initiated what.
While Cal does seem to prefer things to be on-topic, the problem in the posts you mention relates more to snide references than to topicality.
236. God - 9/19/1999 4:13:33 AM
I don't find Monica loathsome at all. Not my body type in the least (I prefer Twiggy-types), but very attractive in her own way. And Baba Wawa? I admire anybody with a speech impediment who isn't all that good looking and still manages to have achieved so much success (not to mention longevity) in the broadcast field.
237. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 4:13:39 AM
Watched it? I taped it and still have the tape. In fact, it's the ONLY tape I have. I haven't rewatched it, but I really felt at the time that it was worth saving.
Yikes. You really do need cable, or a DSS. Life is simply too short to waste watching a chunky blow queen shill a throwaway book.
I can see Baba with the really hard-hitting questions: "If you were a donut, what kind of donut would you be?"
My guess would be either "cream-filled" or "glazed".
238. God - 9/19/1999 4:17:05 AM
Hey, she's younger than me and set for life. If she's also dumb as a brick, I'd say that's yet another reason to admire what she's accomplished.
239. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 4:17:52 AM
Monica might be attractive if she droppped a few pounds, but that's beside the point. I just find her whole oeuvre to be clingy, self-serving, and tacky as hell.
I admire anybody with a speech impediment who isn't all that good looking and still manages to have achieved so much success (not to mention longevity) in the broadcast field.
Well, let's leave Larry King out of this. Seriously, Baba has achieved success because she's so obsequious to her subjects. Pure fluff disguised as something newsworthy.
240. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 4:19:31 AM
Hey, she's younger than me and set for life. If she's also dumb as a brick, I'd say that's yet another reason to admire what she's accomplished.
Yeah, I guess being born rich and sucking a famous cock might set you for life, but I wouldn't call it an accomplishment.
241. God - 9/19/1999 4:22:58 AM
It's hard to be successful in that field (maybe any field) without being either obsequious or having a significant power base to begin with, no? I don't get what makes Larry King so successful, either. Seems quite ordinary to me.
Hey, if I had a fling with Madam President, I'd be clingy too. Who wants out of that relationship? Yes, Monica is self-serving, but she'd have been chewed up and spit out long ago if she wasn't.
242. God - 9/19/1999 4:25:47 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Monica is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Still, I think she has guts and spunk and chutzpah.
243. God - 9/19/1999 4:28:59 AM
Anyway, nice chatting with you Cartman, it's 4:30 and I think I'd better turn in.
244. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 4:48:46 AM
It's hard to be successful in that field (maybe any field) without being either obsequious or having a significant power base to begin with, no?
Very true. I agree that she's been quite successful. My point is that her success has not been predicated on any real journalistic talent, but on her subservience and eagerness to lob nothing but softballs. Her job is essentially the same as Letterman's, to let the guest plug a book/movie/album. The difference is, Letterman doesn't pretend that what he does actually means anything, where Baba is perceived as a "journalist".
I don't get what makes Larry King so successful, either. Seems quite ordinary to me.
King's another softball guy, obviously. I don't mind him on other people's shows, but he's unbearable on his own show. His USA Today columns are mind-boggling in their inanity. Nick Bakay used to do a phenomenal parody of it in National Lampoon.
Hey, if I had a fling with Madam President, I'd be clingy too. Who wants out of that relationship? Yes, Monica is self-serving, but she'd have been chewed up and spit out long ago if she wasn't.
Well, she was chewed up and spit out. More importantly, she's a bit mental. Normal people would think, "What the fuck am I doing?". That the consequences of her little fling don't seem to have even occurred to her proves your point that she's dumb as a brick.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Monica is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Still, I think she has guts and spunk and chutzpah.
Yeah, she definitely has spunk (uh huh-huh-huh huh-huh). I dunno, I just hate seeing people like that get ahead in life. She really deserves a swift kick in the ass, imo. But to each their own, I guess.
It's been interesting talking to you too.
245. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 7:27:21 AM
Cartman's 2-Minute Movie review
Friday night I finally went and watched "Sixth Sense". The concept of the movie was interesting, but I had a bit of a problem with the resolution of what the kid ends up doing with his ability (though, to be fair, offhand I can't say as I can think of a better way to resolve it).
SPOILERS
Considering that the kid had basically a 24/7 ability, making him into a sort of psychic shrink seems like it would be just as disruptive as the original problem.
The twist ending was pretty good, but not wholly unexpected. The circumstances of the relationship between Willis and Osment are pretty hinky from the get-go, but the movie does manage to negotiate those things without giving it away.
Probably the only part that really rubbed me the wrong way was the discovery of the poisoning of the "cancer girl". The whole videotape scene was a pretty cheap setup; I mean, if you're poisoning your kid, do you prepare the food, bring it to the kid's room, and then dump the Pine-Sol (or whatever it was) in? Or do you do it in the kitchen, where you just add it as part of the food preparation?
Still, a minor beef in what was a uniformly excellent performance by the entire cast. Osment, as everyone has already noted, is amazing, and Willis is very good as well. The biggest surprise to me was former New Kids on the Block lead dork, Donnie Wahlberg, who put in a very solid performance in the beginning of the film as Willis' unhinged patient.
The script and editing could have stood a touch-up here and there, but all in all, a very good movie.
246. CalGal - 9/19/1999 7:34:38 AM
<>Spoilers
You know, I'm not sure I've heard that objection to the murdering mom's believability before.
What I like about the setup and the payoff is that I did notice something just a tad hinky about things throughout. But in most cases, I just assumed it was because the director/writer didn't know about psychiatrists. So I was making notes to myself, such as "Oh, sure. Shrink's just going to meet up with a kid in the middle of the street. I think not."
It was fun to discover that the movie "flaws" were all actually clues.
247. EricCartman - 9/19/1999 7:52:51 AM
SPOILERS
Yes, the payoff was there at the end; it was nice to finally realize that what I was thinking were errors in plot development, characterization, and editing were actually clues. The "shrink meeting up with the kid in the middle of the street" was a big one of course, plus the notion that the kid's family could even afford a shrink, much less one that makes house calls. Also, the mother never addressing or mentioning the shrink.
But the movie did do a very good job of negotiating all those things without really giving anything away. And the kid is just compelling anyway. Before you can start adding up all the weird shit, he gets involved in a scary scene that makes you forget the other stuff for a while.
248. moonflower - 9/19/1999 8:08:11 AM
Half the reason people got so bent out of shape over Monica and Bill was bringing oral sex onto the TV so the kiddies were "exposed" to
it "too soon." I don't see her as dumb. And I wonder, BTW, how any of us would be trapped in the White House in a dead marriage--she was available, he was horny, and America is nosey.
249. KuligintheHooligan - 9/19/1999 8:11:01 AM
Could someone help me? I received a CD from a friend, TV show songs of the 70s and 80s. It has kids' shows, sit-coms, drama, and action shows.
Under Action (shows like Rockford, Magnum, Streets of SF) is a show "The Name of the Game." I never even heard of it. Can someone tell me about the show?
250. Cellar Door - 9/19/1999 10:00:05 AM
"The Name of the Game" was a series that ran on NBC from September 20, 1968 to September 10, 1971. It was actually three shows under one title. Each of the stars -- Robert Stack, Tony Franciosa and Gene Barry -- was featured in his own self-contained episode. It was an adventure series that revolved around "Howard Publications" an L.A.-based company. I recall that Spielberg directed one famous episode that was set in the future. See if you can find a copy of "The Complete Directory To Prime Time Network TV Shows 1946 -- The Present" by Tim Brooks and Earl Marsh (Ballentine Books, 1985)
251. joezan - 9/19/1999 10:22:43 AM
Steven Spielberg? What was he, about 20?
If I remember correctly, Name of the Game had a great theme song. Who's credited on the CD, Vic?
253. Mr.Right-O - 9/19/1999 11:09:45 AM
Good material here. There I was furious with God's stuff in the bad taste thread, and he makes sense in here.
I hate that when it happens.
254. Chris J. - 9/19/1999 1:40:30 PM
Finally saw Office Space, Mike Judge's film.
On video.
Though it's ultimately very lightweight and barely makes logical sense, and tries to be a bit of caper/revenge film, and a love story, as well as a satire/comedy...
it's funny enough to excuse it, it's flaws, and never pretends to be
an IMPORTANT film.
Nice performances by all the featured players, and some screamingly funny observational comedy bits. A couple wear thin, but not completely out upon repeating.
At a little over 90 minutes it's an enjoyable film with enough laughs to strongly recommend.
Might I suggest a perfect wash those Monday Blah's away film. And there's another good reason for considering a Monday evening viewing,
but I won't spoil things and tell you why.
255. KuligintheHooligan - 9/19/1999 1:46:08 PM
Cellar Door,
Thanks for the info. It was too early in the 70s for me to remember, and I don't ever remember seeing reruns of it either.
JoeZan,
It says Dave Grusin, Leeds Music Corp.
256. Chris J. - 9/19/1999 1:47:44 PM
Horseman on the Roof
Another film I saw recently. French film, starring Juliette Binoche.
Has to do with the historical period in France around the time of cholera plague.
Italian revolutionaries are hiding in France, being chased by Austrians and well.... . .
It begins as a rowsing, chase type drama. But it takes forever for us to learn anything about the characters. There's a love story, but it's the unrequited type mostly.
Finally toward the end of the film the characters reveal some depth.
But there's been about a 45 minute stretch where credibility is stretched way too far and you just don't know or care very much about these characters.
It was problematic for me. Some of the scenes were very well done, but it didn't add up to much at all.
For Fans of slightly above average french films and Binoche...
257. CalGal - 9/19/1999 1:49:42 PM
When was the cholera plague in France?
258. dusty - 9/19/1999 1:56:22 PM
I think 1832
259. JudithAtHome - 9/19/1999 1:56:28 PM
It's also for fans of the male lead, Olivier something or other....nice looking young man, anyhow.
260. CalGal - 9/19/1999 2:00:21 PM
Oh, Olivier Martinez. According to the IMD, the French Brad Pitt.
This is, apparently, a good thing.
261. CalGal - 9/19/1999 2:01:15 PM
Actually, it's not the IMD that says that, of course. They just quote journalists.
I heard much good about Office Space--I will be checking that out, I think.
262. dusty - 9/19/1999 2:06:00 PM
"Des villes epargnees? L'epidemie de cholera de 1832 a Elbeuf."
From this
263. dusty - 9/19/1999 2:11:47 PM
I don't know much about the MPAA, but I'll bet some people here do. I just glanced at a movie review for The Horseman on the Roof (here)
and saw:
MPAA Classification: R (Violence, nudity, cholera)
Is cholera really an item to be noted in the Classification system? Has there ever been a single person in the history of mankind that ever said, "Hmmm, I was thinking about going to a movie, but cholera, no thanks. Thank goodness for the warning."
264. JudithAtHome - 9/19/1999 2:12:04 PM
I remember Name Of The Game...it would be a good one to re-run. Tony Franciosa chewing the scenery and a wooden Gene Barry looking elegant and corpse-like. I can't recall specific episodes but I'll bet it would be cool to see all the retro clothes.
265. JudithAtHome - 9/19/1999 2:14:54 PM
dusty:
Very funny! Food for thought...maybe they will start classifying by disease now. Skip Philadelphia, it's rated "aids". Forget One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, it got a "schizoid".
266. RosettaStone - 9/19/1999 6:11:53 PM
Quotable Shales: From today's Washington Post "Primal-Time Programming" in Arts Section:
There are lots of lawyers in the new shows as well as lots of angsty teens. "Horndog" has become a common term. The most conspicuous gimmick so far is to have characters in sitcoms and dramas speak directly to the camera. The do it, annoyingly, on ABC's "Once and Again," they do it on Fox's unreal "Get Real," they do it on NBC's blatantly doomed "Mike O'Malley Show."
It's corny but it's also kind of plaintive, as if the actors are spokespeople for the television industry and saying to viewers, "Please, please continue watching. It might get better."
Bud odds are, it won't.
"
267. JudithAtHome - 9/19/1999 6:19:42 PM
So, what are you watching tonight? I think we'll catch the William H. Macy movie on TNT about the murdering flim critic. Hmmmmmmm... wonder if life imitates art or vice versa?
268. RosettaStone - 9/19/1999 6:28:07 PM
The only thing I'm watching is "60 Minutes" tonight. They are doing an interview with Reagan's biographer.
Judith: I took your advice and went to TT's Television folder ("The Real World: Hawaii" thread) and saw some of your posts.
Good comments about who and what makes an alcoholic.
269. JudithAtHome - 9/19/1999 6:41:37 PM
Thanks. I have intimate knowledge in that subject.
270. JudithAtHome - 9/19/1999 6:43:09 PM
You might want to go to Drudge and click on the article about the Reagan Bio. Drudge didn't write it, just linked it.
271. CalGal - 9/19/1999 7:11:18 PM
Ebert piece on Lou Jacobi.
Lou Jacobi is one of those comedian/actors who have been around forever. If you don't recognize his name, you will recognize his face--and his voice. Some great Jacobi bits:
272. Cellar Door - 9/19/1999 8:12:32 PM
This Reagan book sounds weird. Probably the result of some smartass editor trying to put a "postmodern" spin on it to avoid the fate of the D'Nesh D'Souza kissassorama -- which went from the front shelf to the remainder table in record time.
273. RosettaStone - 9/19/1999 8:40:43 PM
It does sound weird and wasn't on "60 Minutes" tonight.
It must be next Sunday.
274. TabouliJones - 9/20/1999 12:27:16 AM
I caught the new Fox show Action tonight. It was absolutely tasteless. I loved it. It had some really funny stuff I thought -- and a great cameo by Keanu Reaves, who gets a handjob at a movie premiere. However, it seems like it would be better suited to a one hour format, rather than just half an hour. The characters are generally quirky and could really benefit from an extra half hour wiggle room.
275. TabouliJones - 9/20/1999 12:32:21 AM
I also caught The Practice tonight. It was rather melodramatic and heavy handed at times, but also quite compelling in its own right. Actually, I wasn't sure if it was the season premiere or a rerun. If it was the premiere, it bodes well for a season long whodunnit mystery and makes for an absolutely brilliant hook.
276. Adrianne - 9/20/1999 9:04:09 AM
Hey, does anyone know if Michael Moriarty (sp?) had a stroke or something?
My stepson rented "Shiloh 2" (firf) this weekend, and Moriarty looked 150 years old, his speech was slurred, and he looked like he was having trouble focussing. It was really, really disconcerting.
277. DanDillon - 9/20/1999 9:14:51 AM
Ohmigod! I like totally heard that Felicity like totally cut off all her hair! She's like totally crazy and like sooo brave at the same time!
278. Uzmakk - 9/20/1999 9:37:31 AM
Dillon:
chuckle, chuckle. Like I really liked that.
279. Adrianne - 9/20/1999 9:40:00 AM
OhmygodI'msosure!
As IF!
280. JudithAtHome - 9/20/1999 11:08:52 AM
Adrienne:
I think Michael M. had a mental breakdown a few years back...Cellar might know more about this than I but I do recall seeing him on a show like Hard Copy dressed like a street person and raving about Hollywood conspiracies denying him work. Last I heard of him, he was going to run for political office in Canada.
281. JudithAtHome - 9/20/1999 11:10:22 AM
Excuse me, that's "Adrianne"...
282. DocBrown - 9/20/1999 11:15:03 AM
I finally saw the movie 'Ocotber Sky' over the weekend. It was a wonderful experience that left me blubbering like a baby. I highly recommend it, especially if you have 11-19 year old kids who need some motivation, and maybe a real life hero or two.
[Some descriptions below, but no story spoilers]
As you might expect, the first brilliant thing I noticed was the use of automobiles in the movie. The movie opens with the launch of Sputnik in 1957, when people in the real-life town of Coalwood are driving drab Fords, Chevys, and Dodges made just before and after World War II. When I think of 1957 I think of the stylish '57 Chevy Belair convertibles . . . not these sad jalopies. I could tell that Coalwood was already a fading relic, even when the WVa coal mines were in their heyday.
The next thing that caught my eye was the surreal journey into the coal mine, followed by interior scenes of the mine itself. The miners ride an elevator deep into the Earth, but rather that the elevator itself, October Sky's cinematography stresses the dark doors opening and closing. The miners have electric TAG lights on their helmets, and several scenes here are shot with only the illumination from the miner's lights. This lighting combined with the sad, bluegrassy music casts a gritty honesty across the miners' work.
Of course I can't talk about October Sky without mentioning rockets. The soaring, glorious scenes of rocket launches are such a archtypical poetic contrast to the dark, cramped coal mine that it seems like October Sky could only be a work of fiction. Perhaps one real life story in a million comes complete with perfect imagery. See for yourself, then perhaps we can discuss with spoilers.
I give October Sky four doors up. \_/ \_/
283. Cellar Door - 9/20/1999 11:38:28 AM
Actually I hadn't heard about Moriarty's breakdown, but I'm not surprised. There are so many "barely clinging to the edge of sanity" actors in this town it's not funny. It's a dangerous profession. Most people enter it as a means of trying to figure out who they are in the first place.
284. JudithAtHome - 9/20/1999 12:00:04 PM
Last night, I watched the Miss Venezuela Contest on a Spanish language channel. I know...there is no hope for me, I am a cable fiend.
This contest was so bizarre: all contestants looked alike, they were tall, thin, had puffed lips, puffed breasts, and perfect big teeth. They walked as tho they had rods up their backs, with their heads and shoulders held way back in order to make their backs look swayed. They kept their arms held rigidly to their sides and sort of "sidled" their way across the stage.
I saw a story once on 20/20 about the Beauty Queen Factories of Brazil and I guess they have them in Venezuela, too.
285. glendajean - 9/20/1999 12:01:35 PM
I watched rented videos of "Enemy of the State" and "Celebrity" this weekend.
EOS was over the top, silly. The best parts were when Gene Hackman was around. Jon Voight has become the face of scary government technocrats hanging around black helicopters (sort of like Debbie Reynolds has become the face of scary moms).
Celebrity is sad because it is a sign of Woody Allen still reeling from his battle with Mia, the decline of his art, and way it makes one re-interpret the older movies. And sad to see Kenneth Branaugh do a WA imitation. And sad to see Judy Davis play the same role over and over (although she did shine at becoming a local tv personality).
There were a couple of moments that were glimmered: KB is kicking out his girlfriend just at the moment the movers are bringing her boxes into the apartment. He fooled around with leaving the camera on one character (almost documentary like) and so we see their reactions and only hear the disembodied voice of the other character(s) in the scene.
He already parodied cheap religious art in Hannah, but he does it again here with the guy who fills Sacred Heart Jesus' with red liquid that spurt out when he's squeezed. He throws in a hopeful line that life sometimes brings fortune and good luck, despite our best intentions to be sad.
And his attempt to parody a celebrity culture seemed half-hearted, probably because it's almost impossible to satirize. Real life has already gone to any image he could have produced.
286. CalGal - 9/20/1999 12:04:25 PM
October Sky is a wonderful movie.
Michael Moriarty is bipolar, I believe. He went way out there wacko with the Janet Reno accusations, which resulted in him being fired from L&O. He got arrested a few times during that year. Then he apparently goes back on his meds and he's fine. He's been in several movies since the 1994 breakdown--the aforementioned Shiloh, Courage Under Fire, and a few others.
287. glendajean - 9/20/1999 12:08:58 PM
Judith -- once in a time of despair, I entertained myself by watching Univision. If you start watching religious programming, too, GO GET HELP! (Just kidding).
288. JudithAtHome - 9/20/1999 12:18:46 PM
glendajean:
I know my "catagorical statements of intent" are as dust in the wind when it comes to cable but I can assure you, I will definitly go for help if ever that stage of madness is reached!
289. JudithAtHome - 9/20/1999 12:20:41 PM
Wait, wait...does that include the PAX channel? :-)
290. Chris J. - 9/20/1999 12:21:10 PM
Celebrity is Allen doing a bitter film about fame in the Stardust
Memories vein mixing in a big dosage of Fellini homages.
Unfortunately the parts don't equal any kind of sum worth talking about.
The first 30 minutes or so are pretty bad. A few wonderful scenes,
and a great sequence with DiCaprio (he does a good job, but how its written, edited, paced, is a new Woody at work)is what you get
for sticking to the end.
For Woody fans only, I'm afraid. And then some of them will be dissapointed. And if you didn't like Deconstructing Harry then stay far far away from this one.
Branaugh isn't awful becoming Woody Allen and his looks and age are better suited than Woody himself would have been. Judy Davis plays a very interesting female Woody. But geesh.. a male and female version of a similar character we are already overy familiar with?????
Half of the movie feels like someone's mediocre homage to Woody/Fellini and Bergman.
291. glendajean - 9/20/1999 12:22:01 PM
No, I was thinking of Sister Angelica and the woman with the pink wig and the gilded furniture.
292. Ace of Spades - 9/20/1999 12:28:47 PM
I would like to present a brief rebuttal to the Office Space review.
Office Space (along with Election, Rushmore, and Something About Mary) was one of the funniest comedies of last year.
It deserves to be rented and re-rented. Go see it if you haven't yet.
293. JudithAtHome - 9/20/1999 12:33:10 PM
glendajean:
Ohmygod! I've tripped across the lady with the pink hair already! The one on the set that looks like a Las Vegas bordello? With the guy who dresses like Porter Waggoner of Grand Ole Opry fame?
294. glendajean - 9/20/1999 12:37:13 PM
Judith -- A good friend of mine used to say that they were aliens from outer space who had watched Jim and Tammy Fae Bakker, decided they were a powerful influence, so they created that show as a way to control the world. Only they just missed getting the look right.
295. JudithAtHome - 9/20/1999 12:38:15 PM
ChrisJ:
Nice take on Celebrity. I thought it was interesting but sad, in the way watching old rock and roll stars try to recapture the magic is sad. Some pull it off but many more do not. Woody should get a new gig or just play for his own enjoyment now.
296. glendajean - 9/20/1999 12:49:26 PM
ChrisJ -- I didn't think of Judy Davis as playing a female Woody. Diane Keaton and Mia Farrow did that a lot. He seems to use JD as the angry bitch (Husbands and Wives, Deconstructing Harry, Celebrity). Although her character was a bit softer in Celebrity, it still was quite brittle.
In previous movies, Allen created a world in Manhattan where people shared an interest in books, movies, art, and they talked about it all while hunkered down in beautiful apartments and ate at interesting restaurants.
That world is gone. The real estate prices alone changed it. As unreal as his Manhattan probably was in real life, it gave him a comfortable seat to make funny observations about life.
Maybe he ought to do a movie about a co-op board and real estate agents. But his take on women and relationships are pretty soured right now.
297. TabouliJones - 9/20/1999 8:39:32 PM
For those curious about what Michael Moriarty is up to these days:
After his departure from Law and Order he migrated to Nova Scotia and spent plenty of time entertaining and scandalizing the locals with his antics, drunken and otherwise. Apparently he loves the place and may still be there for all I know. He hit the news about six months ago when he announced that he intended to become the founding father of the Republican Party of Canada, which he presented as a means of uniting the Canadian right -- which has been divided, at the federal level, since the implosion/marginalization of the Progressive Conservative Party and subsequent emergence of the regionalist Reform Party, following the retirement of Brian Mulroney. Anyways, I don't know if Moriarty has gone anywhere with his idea. . . . And there you have the scuttlebut from up north.
298. RosettaStone - 9/20/1999 10:14:47 PM
Talk Magazine second issue is even better than the first. Her's why:
"The Crazy Dream Factory" by Joe Queenan
subhead: Ex-Hollywood mogul Bernie Brillstein settles scores in new memoir:
"...Brillstein rattles on in vantage authentic Rat Pack lingo that is entirely devoid of rehearsed post-modern irony. Thus when criticizes 'Ellen' for changing from a 'sit-com' to a 'sit on my face-com,' some readers may feel an understandable wave of nostalgia for an earlier, simpler, more innocent time when people actually talked like that. Well, people named Rickles."
299. RosettaStone - 9/20/1999 10:15:39 PM
Here's why
300. Cellar Door - 9/20/1999 11:25:20 PM
Joe Queenan writing for Tina? He's a good guy.
301. RosettaStone - 9/21/1999 8:49:03 AM
From today's Washington Post:
The Reliable Source:
Thanks for sharing! Pop star and public restroom violator George Michael, squeezing every ounce of publicity out of a Beverly Hills cop's $10 million slander suit against him, has confided to various British tabloids that he hasn't slept with a woman for a decade but wants to have sex with Nicole Kidman--and Tom Cruise.
302. Adrianne - 9/21/1999 9:41:25 AM
CalGal
Re 286
No, seriously, in Shiloh 2 he didn't look or sound fine at all. Maybe it's the meds - but I used to be a big fan, and this wasn't the same person, really. It was very sad. Maybe that was just a one-off, but it really was bizarre.
303. Cellar Door - 9/21/1999 10:51:03 AM
George wants to sleep with Tom and Nicole?
AND THE CRITICS SAID NOBODY THOUGHT "EYES WIDE SHUT" WAS HOT!!!
304. Dantheman - 9/21/1999 1:59:00 PM
I saw For the Love of the Game over the weekend, at the insistence of my wife, who is a huge baseball fan. The story was so ridiculously predictable that any one of us could have written the whole rest of the story 5 minutes into it. Given that, it was watchable, if not great. There was nothing seriously wrong with the acting or the script, although it needed more baseball moments and less relationship to it.
305. JudithAtHome - 9/21/1999 2:04:52 PM
Another Kevin movie about baseball? YAWN...they should bottle him as a sleep aid.
I love Joe Queenan!
306. RosettaStone - 9/21/1999 2:56:56 PM
Here's another excerpt from next month's excellent TALK magazine.
The article is called "Alec Guinness Writes His Life" by Fintan O'Toole:
...Even broaching the subject with him is like intruding on a private grief. "I shrivel up a little every time someone mentions 'Star Wars' to me," he says. To this day he must confront piles of correspondence that contains 'Star Wars' photographs for him to autograph. Each letter goes into the bin: 'It can take its chance in some remote and receding galaxy,' he writes in 'A Positively Final Appearance' autobiography.
At first Guinness thought the movie "refreshing and good fun and rather moral, you know? I had no idea it would turn into such a monster."
Then in 1980 in San Francisco he was approached by a stylish mother and her 12-year-old son; the boy reported he had seen "Star Wars" more than a hundred times. Looking into the child's eyes, Guinness perceived signs of incipient madness, "There was something obsessive there that really frigthened me," he says. He asked the boy to do something for him.
"Anything! Anything!"
"You won't like what I'm going to ask you to do."
"Anything! Anything!"
"Promise never to see 'Star Wars' again."
The child wept. But Guinness hopes with faint conviction, that he helped save the lad from coming unhinged..."
(Does this remind you of anyone we know?)
307. JudithAtHome - 9/21/1999 4:43:32 PM
Yes, my cousin who saw the same play 37 times.
308. TabouliJones - 9/21/1999 5:18:23 PM
Or the couple who had each seen Phantom of the Opera something like 200 times before they married, went to see it twice on their wedding day for f'sakes, and continue to see it as often as they can.
309. cartmhan - 9/21/1999 5:25:25 PM
If only Kevin Costner could make a movie about a ballplayer who thinks his baseball is talking to him. Now that's entertainment. :-)
310. glendajean - 9/21/1999 5:27:12 PM
They should be ashamed, Tabouli.
Years ago, before it made it to Broadway, I saw a production of Jekyll & Hyde at the Alley Theater in Houston (I had a friend who worked there at the time).
Terrible show. Maudlin pop tunes. An excuse (in that production) for women to walk around in their undergarments. I think there was 3 or 4 separate fog devices (always beware of fog as an integral part of a production).
On the way out, an old man was holding his wife's hand as they walked up the aisle. "This is better than Phantom of the Opera," he said, beaming.
311. TabouliJones - 9/21/1999 5:44:17 PM
Glendajean,
Frightening isn't it? This summer the Phantom franchise in Toronto was put to bed after close to a decade. The final run featured Paul Stanley in the lead -- yes, that Paul Stanley, of Kiss fame. Scary stuff.
312. TabouliJones - 9/21/1999 5:46:42 PM
Did anyone catch the new Law and Order spin-off?
313. CalGal - 9/21/1999 5:49:58 PM
TJ,
Yes, I did. I hate it when they are introducing new characters on any show--couldn't stand the woman and her emotional involvement. Guy was great.
Ending was fucking brutal--both emotionally and visually.
314. TabouliJones - 9/21/1999 5:56:57 PM
CalGal,
Agreed on all counts, except I thought the woman did an adequate job with what she was given. I thought it was completely extraneous when they introduced the mother and the details about the woman detective's birth. The writers seemed to ignore some of the L and O rules for success; specifically the idea tht character development should be implied and tangential to a compelling plot. The guy was terriffic. He kept making these slight almost inappropriate facial ticks at times (when he interviewed the woman who ended up killing herself, for eg) which made me curious about his character.
I also wanted more Munsch (sp?) and needed to see Lenny?
315. TabouliJones - 9/21/1999 5:58:24 PM
Shit, sorry about the spoiler.
316. CalGal - 9/21/1999 6:24:28 PM
SPOILERS
Yeah, I can't think of the guy's name. But he had that spooky scary NYPD Blue part as the gun runner and I've had my eye on him ever since. I loved the parent-teacher conference where he got the cell phone call and just verbally smacked her around for fucking up. Although I think I would have demanded a new partner on the basis of that alone. She's in SEX CRIMES, for heaven's sake--it's not like this is a one time deal. Are they going to give every woman a break if she kills her rapist?
Agreed about the personal detail--what makes L&O so interesting is how they just tiptoe out information randomly during episodes. Bad call to change that. More Munch. In fact, ditch the dame and partner the two of them.
317. vonKreedon - 9/21/1999 6:34:15 PM
Speaking of NYPD, is it starting a new season tonight?
318. CalGal - 9/21/1999 6:36:01 PM
My guess is no--they usually are the last to start the new season, sometime in October. I can't believe that I haven't seen any promos, though, so I'd be very surprised if it started tonight.
319. vonKreedon - 9/21/1999 6:38:28 PM
Yeah, but they showed the last show from last season last week, so....
But yeah, I've seen tons of Heather Locklear, but no Dennis Franz teasers.
320. CalGal - 9/21/1999 6:44:14 PM
Someone explained to me last season--it may even have been TJ?--that the late NYPD Blue start has something to do with the World Series. The answer made sense at the time, but I forget what it was.
321. Spiderman - 9/21/1999 8:03:01 PM
They're both boring as hell and a waste of time to watch.
322. glendajean - 9/21/1999 9:53:52 PM
NYPD Blues won't start till the November sweeps.
324. CalGal - 9/21/1999 10:46:10 PM
November? That seems a long time.
333. CalGal - 9/21/1999 10:58:10 PM
You know, I never realized until tonight that they switched the woman who played Ross's wife on Friends.
341. alistairconnor - 9/21/1999 11:03:54 PM
There is NOTHING good on TV. Otherwise, why are you all here?
342. Spiderman - 9/21/1999 11:03:58 PM
FUCK
364. alistairconnor - 9/21/1999 11:07:48 PM
At last, a lucid television critic.
367. alistairconnor - 9/21/1999 11:09:27 PM
Feeling better now?
368. alistairconnor - 9/21/1999 11:10:38 PM
Well, I am. How many more you got like that, Spidey?
369. alistairconnor - 9/21/1999 11:11:06 PM
Hey maybe we killed him - think he bust a bloodvessel?
392. ethiopianeunuch - 9/22/1999 12:35:33 AM
The blank screen you see is from CalGals very effective snert removal service. Thank-you CalGal!
393. cartmhan - 9/22/1999 12:52:50 AM
Hello, all!! Here is a question....what would you do if you have 500 channels to choose from on television? Well...I will get that chance to experience that next month when Dish Network expands their lineup to 500 channels (but you have to get new equipment..I know..there is a catch to everything). Now I will get to see if Bruce was right, after all.
394. Dantheman - 9/22/1999 9:39:03 AM
Cartmhan,
I don't know, I find it's all I can do to eliminate the channels I never want to see (shopping networks, ads for pay per view, etc.) so I can use the clicker without seeing them.
What's with all the deleted posts? Did something weird happen last night?
395. cartmhan - 9/22/1999 10:23:45 AM
The big disadvantage of getting the 500 channels is that if you want to edit the channel lineup where you only see channels you want to see..it would take a long time to do the job. I have estimated that it may take an hour to get the editing done for me. The one thing that at least Direct, Primestar and Dish Network do what the cable systems dont do is give you a choice a la carte.
Another disadvantage is when people find out that I do have 500 channels...it will be the equivilant to having the only swimming pool in the neighborhood during the summertime. Everyone will want to come over to find out how good the channels are. If I do recall...Direct will have the same package offered soon, where the subscribers will get 500 channels with new equipment.
What channels will be in the 500?? So far...Lifetime Movies, ten channels of MTV and VH-1 each, a bunch of foreign programming (Arabic, etc), and the Soap Opera Channel (Insight and other cable systems have been guaranteed the Soap Opera Channel...a channel of 24 hours of reruns of General Hospital, Guiding Light, The Doctors, and many more). What's next? The America On Line Channel?
396. JudithAtHome - 9/22/1999 11:12:32 AM
Good Lord! 500 channels....just cart me away and hook up the IV...
397. Dantheman - 9/22/1999 11:16:22 AM
Recently, I was at my in-laws house in Florida. They had a large (not quite 500 channels, but substantially more than I have) cable system. Included was a series of 25-30 channels playing different types of music, without commercials, so that if you closed the doors to the entertainment system, it sounded as if the stereo was on, without any worries about changing CD's or listening to commercials. I would personally pay very little for it, but I would personally pay very little for most of the cable channels.
398. glendajean - 9/22/1999 11:29:48 AM
My dear Judith, 500 channels and you will be in hog heaven.
We're Dish network subscribers. They have a deal if you move, and you leave your old dish, they'll give you a new one for the new place.
399. JudithAtHome - 9/22/1999 12:15:54 PM
GJ:
I wouldn't be able to exist with access to 500 channels. Between the TV and this infernal machine, I am rapidly verging on "house potato" status as it is; I can just SEE myself with 500 choices ....arrrrggghhhh.
Today is my day for work at the antiques mall so I will talk to y'all tomorrow. I'm leaving early to run some errands.
400. IdiotWind - 9/22/1999 1:08:16 PM
We dropped cable because we were watching much to much television. Now we listen to a lot more radio and make in-house music. Maybe next summer we'll get cable again. I certainly like the E! channel. Pure promotion.
401. cartmhan - 9/22/1999 2:39:53 PM
I got a dish from Echostar because I got tired of the balderdash from the local cable company (TCI/Insight) about upgrading. we only had about 70 channels...but 20 of those were pay per view and music audio channels. What a waste of money $80 bucks a month for expanded cable, Digital Cable, and HBO!! Also...lots of people (including myself)wanted Fox Sports Midwest because of the Indiana Pacers home and away games are on there (54 on FSM...compared to 28 on local TV). Insight maintained that there is no interest in Pacers basketball in Anderson, Indiana (excuse me?? I only live about 25 miles from Indianapolis and they say there is no interest?? If FSM had Anderson Indians basketball games on...they would put it in in a snap). I had inquired about getting FSM on cable. The response I got? GET A DISH!! Well..I did and damn proud of it! I do spend 70 bucks a month...but for 180 channels...not 54, as what was on Insight cable.
Insight also promised a major upgrade a few months ago. Guess what? The major upgrade consisted of the Golf Channel and TV Land and dropping Much Music USA. Thats all the upgrade. If thats an major upgrade....then The Sacramento Kings will have Michael Jordan.
I had been a cable subscriber since 1980 and that was when it was only 12 channels. When I pay 70-80 bucks a month for television..I expect my moneys worth. Cable is simply not there anymore and Dish is the only way to go. In many communities, there is only one system...so consumers do not have a choice between two cable systems. I do strongly encourage cable subscribers to look into getting a Direct or Dish satellite system. It may cost more right now...but you will be getting more for your moneys worth. Afterall...how many times have you stared at your cable lineup and realized there was nothing on TV? When I had cable...it was way too many times.
402. cartmhan - 9/22/1999 2:43:16 PM
When you do get your dish installed...get it professionally installed. A friend of mine decided to put it in himself. Well...he is still without some signal reception because he goofed up installing it somehow.
403. Cellar Door - 9/22/1999 3:35:02 PM
"E!" is hysterical. If your career is in good shape you get a "Celebrity Profile." But once you've hit the skids it's "The E! True Hollywood Story."
And if you're dead, it's "Mysteries and Scandals" with the ineffable A.J. Benza.
404. Raskolnikov - 9/22/1999 3:45:26 PM
Satellite rocks. Both Dish Network and DirectTV are going to be showing local programming for most major metropolitan areas soon, so for most of you cable subscribers, there will be no more excuses. Embrace competition, and get better service.
One of us.
One of us.
405. IdiotWind - 9/22/1999 4:17:46 PM
Someone should take responsibility to watch "West Wing" on NBC tonight and give us a review about the White House sit-com.
Martin Sheen "plays" Mr. President and, according to the paper, doesn't appear until half way into the show and then his opening line is, "I am the Lord your God. Thou shalt worship no other gods before me."
There is also a friendly prostitute in the cast.
406. CalGal - 9/22/1999 9:14:03 PM
The Iron Giant
If you blinked you missed this little gem, and that's a shame. The Iron Giant is another noteworthy entry in
 Click for photo sequence | the astonishing array of quality animated films produced in the last two years, |
407. CalGal - 9/22/1999 9:17:22 PM
Trailers for this movie made it seem very ET-like, but the similarity is minimal. And Giant has no interest in using its animation to do anything other than tell a story. It is no surprise to see that Brad Bird is executive consultant to both The Simpsons and King of the Hill. No singing animals, no magic, no suspension of reality constraints (well, except for the Giant). 
The characters are all superbly drawn--Hogan, the boy, and Connick's charmingly laid-back beatnik are delightful, while Christopher McDonald's paranoid government agent is surprisingly three-dimensional. But this is the Giant's story; the development of his character is never sold short, and the happiness you will feel for him when he makes his choice will probably surprise you. This movie earns every bit of the emotional investment it asks for.
Kudos to Warner Bros for making it and all involved. It probably wasn't marketed well, but my guess is that it will have a long, long life on video. Whether or not you have kids, I recommend it. If you do have kids, know that my 11-year-old, my 6-year-old twins, and my 3-year-old nephew were all enthralled.
408. Phoenix Rising - 9/22/1999 10:05:11 PM
CalGal: I officially request that you delete the name "benear" and all posts made by me or him from your lame "MoteMovies" web site. You no longer have my permission to use anything I have ever written as a member of the Fray or as a member of the Mote. I am no longer want to be a member of either.
409. SpenceMirrlees - 9/22/1999 10:18:06 PM
Nice review Cal.
410. Nostradamus - 9/22/1999 11:59:27 PM
I am no longer want to be interrupting a lovely review, either.
411. CalGal - 9/23/1999 12:06:37 AM
Well, if anyone wants to know how to spice up their reviews with pictures, post a question in Toys thread and I'll elaborate.
BTW, for those of you who are new, I publish all reviews posted here--they don't have to be as formal as mine. Although I do generally leave off those that say "I saw Movie X and really dug it" because that is a great deal of work. But I should probably have a thumbs up/thumbs down section, now that I think of it. Hmm. I shall consider.
If you want to read the reviews, click on the Mote Movies link above. It is still called FrayFilm, but that's just because I'm terminally behind schedule. It will be changed soon.
I'm thinking of using this font for the headings, since most people don't see my very cool Tempus Sans ITC. If this looks like Times New Roman to you (same old same old), let me know.
412. Nostradamus - 9/23/1999 12:26:51 AM
CalGal
My best friend has a precious 3 year old daughter and she (my friend) is very protective. For instance, she thought that the Lion King was too dark for her 3 year old. Would you recommend the Iron Giant to her?
413. CalGal - 9/23/1999 12:35:16 AM
Hmm. Is she sensitive to loud noises? The twins mentioned above had their ears covered for the first half hour because they thought it was loud. They stuck it out and were glad they did--but they're also 3 years older. The 3 year old in my crew is made of much less sensitive stuff, and loved it--ears uncovered and all. (and, of course, the twins were more likely to stick it out in order to save face in front of their little brother.)
So she might not want to risk it in the theaters. At home, though, I'd recommend it. The sound won't be as overwhelming, the battle scenes at the end won't be as alarming, and she'll be able to stick it through to the end (which makes it all worthwhile).
This is assuming that the daughter is the sensitive one and not the mom. You never know--the little girl herself might think The Lion King was wonderful.
414. Nostradamus - 9/23/1999 12:38:03 AM
CalGal
Thanks, I appreciate your help.
415. CalGal - 9/23/1999 12:48:33 AM
Rats, I just realized I had a typo in my link. Razzerfrazzer.
Photo Display referenced above
Or here is the framed site.
416. Dantheman - 9/23/1999 9:02:38 AM
I saw The West Wing last night. I think you need to like the rapid fire dialogue of Sports Night, plus typical liberal Hollywood politics to appreciate it. Fortunately, I like both, so I was engrossed. It's better acted than Sports Night, and the topics are still frsh. I hope it doesn't sink into soap opera, as Sports Night often did last year.
417. RosettaSTONE - 9/23/1999 9:25:34 AM
My wife and son watched part of the WEST WING last night but my kid turned it off telling his mother that he didn't like it because it made fun of Christians.
And this is a kid who loves Nirvana and MTV.
418. pseudoerasmus - 9/23/1999 10:06:00 AM
After more than four months of no movies, I saw my first: Vaginas Tight Shut.
I liked two scenes, mostly for the humour and texture -- the foxtrot between Kidman and the Hungarian lecher, and the Mêlée at the Serbian Costumier's (very reminiscent of Scorsese's Afters Hours). But despite the few bits that are good, the whole is pretty much a hollow shell. I'm rather shocked at the adulation heaped on this movie.
While Kidman was unfaithful to her husband in her dreams and her desires, Cruise couldn't manage a retaliatory infidelity in real life, despite numerous half-hearted attempts. Stanley von Wienerschitzler-Kübrick is telling us that fidelity and infidelity are states of mind at least as much as they are realised behaviours, that to distinguish between the two verges on pettifogging. OK, sounds like a great idea to dramatise. SO WHERE IS THE DRAMA in Vaginas Tight Shut?
We are given the husband's half of the drama, preposterous though it is. Where is the wife's half? It amounts to a few mincing confessions of illicit desires by the wife, plus the sequences of writhing between (a silky mindbogglingly desirable) Kidman and some naval officer that reside entirely in her husband's porno-struck mind. Couldn't we have seen more of how these dreams of infidelity affected Kidman's life and feelings? Couldn't we have seen more of the dreams themselves? I mean, dreams are dramatised in movies ALL THE TIME. Just how can a story which calls attention to the neglected fact that infidelity can be a state of mind show so little about that adulterous state of mind???
419. pseudoerasmus - 9/23/1999 10:06:58 AM
Even if we overlooked this rather crucial flaw, we'd still be left with another. The film ends with the hint that husband and wife have progressed to some new level of awareness about each other and their relationship. If so, HOW DID THIS COME ABOUT? Because Cruise was tailed and terrorised by the Orgy Society of American Brahmins? How and why did Kidman change? We are shown neither the transformation in their relationship, nor even any implied material with which we might cogently speculate why the movie ended the way it did. There's no there there, to paraphrase Gertrude Stein.
And the acting! The two principals were incredibly leaden and amateurish, as though they were rehearsing skits for drama school admission. But this is probably Kubrick's fault. In most of his movies, even good actors are browbeaten into delivering zombified performances.
I liked the look of the film though: The Shining.
Final word on Stanley Kubrick: he was a dirty old man when he was young, and he died a dirty old man.
420. Dusty - 9/23/1999 10:14:02 AM
Font locations for fonts mentioned in Calgal's Post #411
I did not have the Trebuchet MS font used in CalGal's post #411, but I now do. It can be downloaded from this Microsoft page Installation is easy, just run the downloaded .exe file (font will work after a reboot)
Here is a source for Tempus Sans ITC
Caution, do not confuse Tempus Sans ITC, the font that CalGal uses, with ITC Tempus Sans, a copywrited, commercial font.
The instructions on the page tell you to click on the link. I had to right-click, then Save Target as.
421. Raskolnikov - 9/23/1999 10:25:54 AM
I finally watched the reason why I bought a DVD player: The Aliens Special Edition.
Mindblowing. I had only seen it on videotape since 1986, when it came out. And I hadn't seen the extra footage. The widescreen presentation helps enormously, and I very much liked most of the additional footage, the stuff which fills in a few minor plot holes, adds minor pieces of action to spice up the slow bits between the ass kicking of the marines and the alien assault on the compound, and I liked the extra information about Ripley's daughter, and the scene where she exchanges first names with Corporal Hicks before entering the hive to rescue the kid.
But there was an extended sequence showing how the colonists (in the form of Newt's dad) found the derelict spaceship which begins the alien infestation. That sequence was disjointed, adds nothing we really needed to know, and was justifiably cut the first time.
But aside from that, I was reminded why Aliens is my favorite action film. I also thought James Horners score sounded much better.
I am now a complete DVD convert. Join me.
I have The Wild Bunch and The Right Stuff in my on-deck circle, for viewing this weekend.
422. JudithAtHome - 9/23/1999 10:31:55 AM
We watched West Wing last night and loved it but then, we like Sports Night, too. I liked the pace and thought the dialogue was terrific, especially the showdown with the religious group when the President came in. I don't feel it made fun of Christians so much as exposed the fact that there are good intentions and bad intentions in every large group of people.
I was surprised at how well Rob Lowe came off (no pun intended) and I hope the prostitute remains a part of the story line because the lady is a good actress and I like almost all her roles to date.
Did anyone stick around for Law & Order? The story line was disturbingly on target for what just happened here in Fort Worth but I suppose all mass shootings have a slimey similarity. I thought the new guy, Jesse L.(?) Martin, was great...so very different from the low key Benjamin Bratt character. He was like a jolt of caffiene.
423. glendajean - 9/23/1999 10:37:20 AM
Judith -- I went to see a production of Lear last night at the Shakespeare theater here. A friend had tickets at the last minute.
Seeing Lear on a week night is like going to a 5 act opera on a week night. That said, this production was strong enough to keep me away to the end (7:30pm - 10:50 pm, one intermission).
So I missed West Wing. It wasn't too hokey or earnest? Great. I have to say I like Sports Night a lot. It's an example of HBO type program on network, don't you think?
424. JudithAtHome - 9/23/1999 10:40:31 AM
GJ:
Yes, I like the edginess of Sports Night and of the new show, too... we've agreed to tape both so we can rewind in case of missed gems!
425. Cellar Door - 9/23/1999 10:57:21 AM
Kubrick isn't a director of dramas, Pseudo. He's a conceptual filmmaker like Warhol, Rivette and Straub-Huillet. You did a better job, BTW, than most reviewers -- more of whom have dismissed the film stateside than embraced it, and in the most offhanded way imaginable. (There's an excellent piece in the October "Harper's" about this.)
426. pseudoerasmus - 9/23/1999 11:00:16 AM
Cellardweller, recataloguing Wienerschnitzler-Kübrick under the right file doesn't alter the fact that he had a dramatic point to make, and he failed to make it.
427. DocBrown - 9/23/1999 11:40:59 AM
Raskolnikov, thanks for your DVD endorsement. My friends started giving me DVDs for my birthday last month, but I still haven't taken the plunge and purchased a player. I have so little time for movies these days.
Please tell as all about The Right Stuff on DVD. A good version of that movie might push me over the edge.
428. Raskolnikov - 9/23/1999 11:45:40 AM
Doc: will do.
429. KuligintheHooligan - 9/23/1999 11:56:14 AM
My wife and I have rented "Thin Red Line" to watch this evening. We both like war movies but haven't yet seen this one. Anybody like the movie?
430. glendajean - 9/23/1999 12:00:54 PM
It's not much of a war movie. The orignial, filmed in black & white in the 60s? was very powerful.
This is more about undulating grass and beautiful pictures of the South Pacific. Sort of like Ethan Allen furniture commercials promoting their Carribean line (except in the SP).
431. marjoribanks - 9/23/1999 12:02:50 PM
Hooligan,
It's a superb, poetic (though long and sometimes confusing) movie. My favorite "serious" Hollywood product of at least the last five years, if not ten.
I should point out that almost everyone I've ever spoken to disagrees with me (except for Mondaugen).
432. Raskolnikov - 9/23/1999 12:03:36 PM
I didn't much care for Thin Red Line. The Cinematography is gorgeous, and the scenes involving the taking of the hill are quite good, particularly the exchanges between Koteas and Nolte, but the film unfortunately is rather flakey.
433. glendajean - 9/23/1999 12:07:15 PM
George C. Scott died. He declined St. Peter when he was asked if he wanted to enter the pearly gates.
434. CalGal - 9/23/1999 12:52:52 PM
George C. Scott
Scott was never an actor I particularly enjoyed; he started going well over the top early on and never seemed to pull it back. He also seemed to lose his ability to choose properties later in his career. Still, he was a talent.
I liked him best when he underplayed; his marvellous supporting work in Anatomy of a Murder remains my favorite of his performances.
Other great Scott (ha) roles:
435. glendajean - 9/23/1999 12:55:29 PM
He's father of Campbell Scott, co-collaborator with Stanley Tucci of Big Night, The Imposters and The Day Trippers.
George C. was once married to Coleen Dewhurst, Campbell's mom.
436. CalGal - 9/23/1999 12:59:11 PM
And then, Janet Maslin, head critic of the NY Times, "quit"? Rumor has it she was too "nice".
Scuttlebutt, Cellar?
437. CalGal - 9/23/1999 12:59:45 PM
Oh, yes. I forgot to mention that about Dewhurst and their son. Thanks, GJ.
438. CalGal - 9/23/1999 1:13:47 PM
I thought the L&O opener was extremely good, btw. New guy fits right in; they aren't forcing his character development too much. Nice bit between him and the Lieutenant; I believe they were presenting that as an unrehearsed entry by her that he could use?
Although I had to laugh: once, in a past forum, a poster used a gun control episode on The Practice as proof that support for jury verdicts in favor of gun control was growing. After all, the jury on the show voted against the gun manufacturers, didn't they? I ribbed him mercilessly for his "I saw it on TV, so it must be true!" argument.
So what happens when I saw that damn show last night, in which the judge (rightfully, IMO) overturns the verdict?
Well, that's proof that The Practice was wrong! Hey, we all know that L&O is considered to be far more solid on its law than Kelley's show.
So that means I must be right! My show says so!!!!
Where's the other Elliot, dammit? I wish to gloat!
(if he is reading, though, he won't understand that I am giggling only at myself. Ah well.)
439. Cellar Door - 9/23/1999 2:48:41 PM
There are all sorts of Did-She-Jump-Or-Was-She-Pushed? stories currently making the rounds re Maslin. Her father died and left her a lot of money. That's reason enough to reitre when you've been at it as long as she has. IMHO she was running into a rut. Here review of "Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train" not only got the plot wrong (fairly easily done) but misattributed casting. There are pieces about Maslin in the "Salon" and "The New York Observer." Both take note of the fact that she liked "Eyes Wide Shut." Evidently that broke with the Party Line.
I think they're going to replace her with that Kukatani character. Just a hunch on my part.
440. glendajean - 9/23/1999 2:51:55 PM
I've always thought Janet Maslin was quite thoughtful.
Stephen Holden has been on deck, so to speak, for movies. He does all themovies that JM passes (and caberet acts).
Caryn James has been doing television for some time. Would they consider her?
441. Cellar Door - 9/23/1999 2:57:20 PM
Who knows? The Times is like the House of Borgia.
442. glendajean - 9/23/1999 3:07:51 PM
Holden often reviews the gay-themed movies, too.
Maslin seemed less formulaic than Canby. She's never been as vicious as Ben Brantley, the theater critic (who was passed over when Frank Rich moved to op-ed). Rich could be tough, but Brantley is a mean son-of-a-bitch critic. His favorite device is to lead on that he likes the production (going on about some aspect for 4 or 5 paragraphs) and then point out how the production he saw failed in achieving whatever he just spent several opening paragraph writing about. I always picture producers having their heart attack after thinking they had a hit only to get to paragraph 6 and discover Brantley hates the show.
443. Chris J. - 9/23/1999 8:38:56 PM
Why was most of the thread deleted?
Why did I have register with my old assigned password when I had already changed it?
George C. Scott was an incredibly talented and intense actor, whose best work was on the stage yet managed 7 or 8 unforgettable performances on film and several in cable and network t.v. movies.
His Christmas Carol is quite good.
He nearly died in 1996 and then appeared in the revival of Inherit the Wind on Broadway to I'm sure deservedly rave reviews.
I thank my lucky stars I was able to see him in Uncle Vanya and Death of Salesman on stage.
His output in films of late has been nothing much to write about it, but the chance of another great performance was always a possibility.
Now he's gone.
444. CalGal - 9/23/1999 11:18:50 PM
Chris--we had a nasty problem a few nights ago; someone was spamming the threads. We had to delete a lot of posts, but no posts of value were deleted.
The login problem will be fixed soon; a long story. Sorry for the inconvenience.
And you are right--I thought later of Scott's Christmas Carol. That's another one on his list.
Did you see the Showtime version of Inherit the Wind with Jack Lemmon?
445. 109109 - 9/24/1999 10:12:57 AM
Recently, I vacationed. While being chased through North Carolina and Virginia, dodging floating caskets the entire way. I also saw many films on video. The experience, as with Floyd, was harrowing. This is the first review in a series of films 109109 saw at the time of the great flood.
Cruel Intentions: What did I expect, you ask. Fair enough. But I expected some things, and I did not receive them. I expected high production values. Instead, the entire film - an update of Dangerous Liaisons, with monied prep school Manhattanites in the roles of French courtesans - was shot at maybe one estate and at one apartment building, giving it a decidedly cheezy feel. I expected television's Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Sarah Michelle Gellar) and/or Reese Witherspoon to get naked. They did not. I expected camp. I was denied. I expected decent music, but the soundtrack is overrepresented by moaning techno bands with pitiful whiny male singers. I expected that when angry characters ripped off the sheets of beds containing their love interests and a third party, those in the beds would not be wearing underwear.
I did not expect to see the most cringe-inducing courtship in film since Lily Tomlin and John Travolta had a hot tub scene in Moment by Moment. But the Ryan Phillipe (as Valmont) and Reese Witherspoon love story beats it hands down. Phillipe, tasked to deflower the chaste Witherspoon (she is the daughter of the headmaster), becomes "totally infatuated" with her. Why? Because she makes him laugh. How? Because during a car ride, she made faces at him by sticking her tongue out and screwing her nose up and using her fingers on the top of her head to simulate the look of a horned creature.
After this execrable scene, by necessity, Witherspoon and Phillipe married in real life.
446. Diogenes - 9/24/1999 10:15:13 AM
Hello, good morning, etc. I'm new to this thread, so I'll jump right in with a top ten list of my all-time favorite movies:
1. East of Eden.
2. Lawrence of Arabia
3. O lucky man!
4. Tale of Winter
5. Tokyo Story
6. Sullivan's travels
7. Unbearable lightness of being.
8. The Aviator's wife
9. Sex, lies and videotape
10. Postcards from the edge.
447. glendajean - 9/24/1999 10:15:56 AM
Were the guys cute? (you left that part out of your review)
448. 109109 - 9/24/1999 10:17:40 AM
glenda
If you go in for that sort of thing. (g)
Diogenes
I am disappointed that Postcards From the Edge beat out Stephen King's Maximum Overdrive.
449. Diogenes - 9/24/1999 10:20:54 AM
Hello, good morning, etc. I'm new to this thread, so I'll jump right in with a top ten list of my all-time favorite movies:
1. East of Eden.
2. Lawrence of Arabia
3. O lucky man!
4. Tale of Winter
5. Tokyo Story
6. Sullivan's travels
7. Unbearable lightness of being.
8. The Aviator's wife
9. Sex, lies and videotape
10. Postcards from the edge.
450. Diogenes - 9/24/1999 10:26:26 AM
Hello, good morning, etc. I'm new to this thread, so I'll jump right in with a top ten list of my all-time favorite movies:
1. East of Eden.
2. Lawrence of Arabia
3. O lucky man!
4. Tale of Winter
5. Tokyo Story
6. Sullivan's travels
7. Unbearable lightness of being.
8. The Aviator's wife
9. Sex, lies and videotape
10. Postcards from the edge.
451. Diogenes - 9/24/1999 10:31:35 AM
I've been told at times that I repeat myself, but this is too much.
I've never seen Maximum Overdrive, but I'll watch for it.
452. Cellar Door - 9/24/1999 10:36:16 AM
"Tale of Winter"? Over "Le Rayon Vert" and "Ma Nuit Chez Maud"? Hmmm.
As for "Cruel Intentions," I'm waiting for the Rugrats version of "Les Liasons Dangereuses."
Ideally, of course, there would be the Mote version with Niner as Valmont and The Diva as Madame de Merteuil.
453. 109109 - 9/24/1999 10:40:30 AM
Cellar
It's in turnaround.
454. Diogenes - 9/24/1999 10:45:25 AM
Cellar,
You do know your Rohmer. Both "Rayon" and "Maud" are among my favorites, but I had to make room for a few other directors.
455. JudithAtHome - 9/24/1999 11:01:22 AM
Diog:
Did you like "...If", too?
456. KuligintheHooligan - 9/24/1999 11:09:16 AM
We rented "The Thin Red Line" last night. Thank you for the "reviews" people gave about it. I thought the movie was decent, okay but not great. Someone yesterday said it was a bit "cheesy" and I have to agree. It was entertaining, but I didn't like the editing, too many clips of worthless angles and views I thought. And after a while I got tired of the "whispering" as in the thoughts of people.
The one thing that floored me the most in the movie was near the end, when the guy gets the letter from his wife asking for a divorce. The whole time this guy has been sustained by knowledge of the love he shares with his precious wife, then she cheats on him. I'm surprised the guy didn't get a gun and kill himself on the spot.
457. Toenails - 9/24/1999 11:33:09 AM
Diogenes: "Sullivan's Travels" may have been a fine movie, but it's disqualified, in my view, from any top ten list because of the racist
"comedy" scenes. I know it was only 1940-something, but I will never
understand why supposedly first-rate directors found it necessary to denigrate an entire race of people over and over again with Stepin Fetchet-style eye-bugging mugging, all for the presumed amusement of the local white majority.
458. 109109 - 9/24/1999 11:36:26 AM
Speaking of. I was watching VH-1 last night. They are doing a Saturday Night Live retrospective on music and the show. I had forgotten how funny Eddie Murphy's Greatest Hits of Buckwheat were, especially "Wookin' Por Nub."
459. Raskolnikov - 9/24/1999 11:41:45 AM
Sullivan's Travels is brilliant. I think you are taking a bit of eye-bugging way too seriously.
460. Toenails - 9/24/1999 11:44:22 AM
'Saw "For Love of the Game" last night. While it wasn't difficult
to understand why most critics have been lukewarm-at-best, if you are (like me) irrationally in love with baseball AND a sucker for romantic themes, you'll enjoy the movie.
Interestingly, I noticed that every one of the small number of persons in attendance at the 7 p.m. feature appeared to be over the age of 60. Sure, it was a school night and all, but...I wonder what (if anything) this factoid says about this film's appeal (and its ultimate grosses)?
461. JudithAtHome - 9/24/1999 11:54:22 AM
Toenails:
It says people over 60 usually have a hard time falling asleep and they've stumbled onto an antidote for insomnia: Kevin Costners movies.
462. Toenails - 9/24/1999 12:19:59 PM
I understand that, whenever anyone, anywhere makes a bad movie,
Kevin Costner gets royalties.
463. JudithAtHome - 9/24/1999 12:31:00 PM
As well he should....
464. CalGal - 9/24/1999 12:34:18 PM
Toenails,
Ha, ha.
Niner,
You chose "Cruel Intentions" to make the reality of your vacation easier to bear, perhaps?
Diogenes,
Welcome! I am inordinately fond of "sex, lies, and videotape". I have forgiven James Spader a great many sins on the strength of it.
Lawrence of Arabia--I love that movie so much I'll watch it on commercial television.
The only thing that made Postcards from the Edge worth watching, IMO, was the two fantastic musical numbers.
465. pseudoerasmus - 9/24/1999 12:42:44 PM
Well, if Diva is going to play Merteuil in the Mote production of les Liaisons dangereuses, I absolutely insist on playing the boy-toy chevalier de Danceny. I want to be toyed with by Diva.
466. 109109 - 9/24/1999 12:43:18 PM
I have no objection.
467. theDiva - 9/24/1999 12:44:25 PM
swoon
468. pseudoerasmus - 9/24/1999 12:46:11 PM
But I wonder how Niner feels about being killed in a sword fight with me? And does Diva want to be disfigured by smallpox?
469. theDiva - 9/24/1999 12:47:12 PM
We're leaving that part out. The smallpox, I mean. I think I shall die of tuberculosis, with pale skin and flushed cheeks, but without all that nasty hacking.
470. pseudoerasmus - 9/24/1999 12:48:46 PM
Dive, I will not service consumptives.
471. 109109 - 9/24/1999 12:50:16 PM
As I understand it, I am not really giving much of an effort in our duel. Were I, dispatch would be mercifully quick.
472. theDiva - 9/24/1999 12:50:46 PM
But smallpox is okay? Sheesh.
How about I just die from that dread Movie Actress disease....you know, the one where I grow ever more gorgeous and desirable as I approach death.
473. Bubbaette - 9/24/1999 12:51:32 PM
P.E.
Picky picky picky.
474. CalGal - 9/24/1999 12:55:28 PM
How about I just die from that dread Movie Actress disease
Ten points to the fastest typist: who is the specific movie actress that this disease is named after?
475. Bubbaette - 9/24/1999 12:56:44 PM
Ali McGraw? Couldn't be -- she wasn't all that good looking when she died. Debra Winger?
476. CalGal - 9/24/1999 12:58:38 PM
Bubba,
Right the first time.
477. Diogenes - 9/24/1999 2:36:44 PM
JudithatHome,
Yes, I did like "If," and even, to a lesser extent, Britannia Hospital. Hospital was saved to some extent by a striking ending.
Also, I will admit that Sullivan's Travels was flawed, but that was so early in the film that it couldn't, for me, distract from the sheer
brilliance of the rest of the film.
478. Raskolnikov - 9/24/1999 3:04:22 PM
By the way, I was recently steered toward DVD buyer's heaven. This site searchers for the best price for a movie on the net. Yesterday, I bought a copy of The Matrix for $10.69, with no s/h charges.
I also watched the DVD of the Wild Bunch last night. Great film.
479. Uzmakk - 9/24/1999 4:33:58 PM
418#PseudoErasmus:
But if the erotolovey and the erotonasty exist simultaneously then might it be that Mssr. Kubrick's point at the end is that there is no real transition? i.e. it is not a story where Tom and Nicole were this way, and then events happen, and now they are that way, reaching a new level of relationship because of a chain of cause and effect events that we want spelled out for us.. Perhaps it is more conceptual as Mr. Door has stated. -- said Uzmakk timidly, not having seen the movie himself
480. JudithAtHome - 9/24/1999 4:47:02 PM
Who wants to see American Beauty this weekend?
481. Raskolnikov - 9/24/1999 4:49:58 PM
Me. But fat chance. My sister in law is coming to town, so I am spending the weekend with the in-laws. I am currently suffering from laryngitis, and I *know* they will take advantage of that fact to start preaching right wing, pro-Reagan screeds at me.
482. ScottLoar - 9/24/1999 5:01:51 PM
Do you believe in divine retribution? Just deserts?
483. Uzmakk - 9/24/1999 5:22:15 PM
Details on American Beauty, if you please, Judith? Who's in it? What's it about? Should I see it? What are the odds? I hate wasting my money on lousy movies.
484. Cellar Door - 9/24/1999 6:24:46 PM
"American Beauty" is from Dreamworks. It's written byAlan Ball, an ex-"Cybill" writer who currently has a new series called "Oh Grow Up." The series has gay characters. "American Beauty" does too -- in minor roles. Sort of. Ball is gay. David Geffen is gay. Sam Mendes, who directed "AM" has --according to the NYT -- been "romatically linked" to several women. Uh Hunh.
Kevin Spacey, the star of "AM" for which he has garnered the best reviews of his career is -- as he now says -- straight. And don't you ever forget it, you people. Even if you know guys he's hit on. Even if Bryan Singer confirmed to you personally that the story about his being caught in the trailer with Singer's boyfriend during the shooting of "The Usual Suspects" is true, he's still straight, dammit Why no less an eminence than Michael Fleming of "Daily Variety" (see "Open Secret" pages 114-116) conducted the "Playboy " interview in which Spacey confirmed that he was straight. For as we all know, no openly gay actor has ever gotten an Oscar, and Spacey has his beady eyes set on a second one.
"American Beauty" itself is "The Seven Year Itch" revised by david mamet with an assist from Peter Greenaway, directed by Michelangelo Antonioni -- slowly losing consciousness as he does so.
Annette Benning is surprisingly off in it. She starts on the wrong foor and stays there. The kids are good.
Forget it and try tracking down "Those Who Love Me can Take the Train" instead.
485. Uzmakk - 9/25/1999 8:51:59 AM
Checked the local "10 in a box" movie theater. No American Beauty.
Thanks for the gayly obsessive information, Mr. Door. Is Those Who Love Me... at the theaters or on video?
486. Cellar Door - 9/25/1999 10:05:28 AM
It's making its way through various art houses at the moment.
487. JudithAtHome - 9/25/1999 10:14:44 AM
Cellar:
Since the only art house theatre in this town is now a freeway, I have a much better chance of seeing Kevin in American Beauty than the one you suggested. But since my husband is playing in a golf tournament this weekend, I'll have to settle for a play tonight and movies next weekend.
488. Raskolnikov - 9/25/1999 2:58:04 PM
Doc: as a follow-up, I watched the Right Stuff DVD last night. The widescreen format was quite nice, as a lot of the better shots in the film (think of the many times you see all seven astronauts in one shot - not letterboxed, the two on the ends would be cut off). And the image clarity was quite good. I never saw Right Stuff on VHS, but I am sure this is a massive improvement.
Unfortunately, the movie itself hasn't improved much with age. I hadn't seen the film since it came out, and I wanted to re-evaluate it. While it certainly has its moments, and the cast is remarkable, there are still way too many story problems.
489. CalGal - 9/25/1999 3:05:35 PM
Yes, the HBO series was far superior to The Right Stuff. Still, any movie that has Harris, Glenn, Quaid, and Ward can't be all bad. And Shepard is perfect.
Sad note about Nurse Murch, the weeeeiiiiirrdd woman who traumatized Quaid's Gordo Cooper --she was played by comedian/radio personality Jane Dornacker, a Bay Area favorite. She moved to New York to do the traffic reporting for a large NYC radio station. Her helicopter crashed into a bridge piling while she was on the air; both she and the pilot died.
490. Raskolnikov - 9/25/1999 3:23:53 PM
I stopped watching the HBO series after the second episode. I think it would have been much better as a straight documentary, or a straight drama. Its weird re-enactment decisions provided a lot of distraction, and seemed aimed more to accomodate stunt casting.
491. CalGal - 9/25/1999 3:27:28 PM
If you watch it as a "series", then it doesn't work. Each one taken separately is much better. The last one--where the astronauts have to learn all about geology in order to do the tests--is particularly good.
I also think the one on the Apollo I fire was well-done, in that it addressed it from the political angle. The guy playing Boorman was quite good. Also Kevin Pollack and James Rebmar as the sacrificial lambs.
492. Raskolnikov - 9/25/1999 4:10:48 PM
I did see the one on Apollo 1. It was decent, but not good enough to make me watch any more.
I do think that a great film could be made out of the Challenger disaster, though. It is a classic example of management hubris and the consequences of the failure of organizational communication. If approached like a detective story, it could be quite good.
493. Cellar Door - 9/25/1999 7:34:43 PM
DVD is definitely taking over. Not just from laser -- which it devoured months ago -- but tape as well. Soon tape will be a medium for recording off the tube only. The visual clarity of DVD, coupled with the convenience of not having to rewind, make it an automatic plus. Prices for units are down to $150.00, and most discs are available at sell-through prices. The most expensive generally don;t run about $30.00, and sales will take them to 20 or lower.
494. Raskolnikov - 9/25/1999 9:14:18 PM
and recordable DVD is coming very shortly, although it will be pricey (I heard around $800) for a little while.
495. Raskolnikov - 9/25/1999 9:22:49 PM
I just saw American Beauty (I got a one day reprieve from the in-laws to rest my voice and recover from laryngitis).
I hated it. There are only a handful of films that I really detest, and this one has the dubious honor of joining such films as Godzilla and Legends of the Fall.
Its difficult to say why without giving away a plethora of spoilers, but I can say that the film hinges upon the most preposterous of plot contrivances, two extremely idiotic red herrings, and is utterly bereft of themes which aren't either A) very confused, B) contrivedly misanthropic, or C) trite and not meaningfully presented (as opposed to films which are trite but at least have some emotional heft).
The acting is quite good, but it isn't good enough to be worth putting up with the content.
Mine is a minority opinion, since the film is getting great reviews and word of mouth, but if you see it, obey the tagline and "look closer" and you will see that there isn't much to look at.
Blech.
496. Raskolnikov - 9/25/1999 9:24:31 PM
Now I am off to go see Eyes Wide Shut at a discount theater. A double header of familial dysfunction while my wife is out of town. When I come back, I'll have to plug a Terminator film into the VCR just to feel like I actually had a guy's night out.
497. Raskolnikov - 9/26/1999 12:50:29 AM
Just saw Eyes Wide Shut.
Kubrick went out with a whimper about a bang.
498. CalGal - 9/26/1999 1:04:42 AM
Ooooooh, goodness. I bet you had the whole movie to think up that one. Nice one.
That bad, huh?
499. Raskolnikov - 9/26/1999 1:23:39 AM
Cal: I fear that a piano giving me a one-note "plink plink plink" ad nauseum will be giving me nightmares for weeks.
I knew I was in trouble when early on in the film Kidman says to Cruise "you are saying that the only reason you didn't fuck those two women was out of consideration for me", with clear anger. (In the context of this exchange, "consideration for me" means that he loves her, respects her, and is married to her)
My reaction was "well, fucking duh!"
But I did like the first third of the film, and thought it effectively dramatized the temptations which can potentially make fidelity a difficult thing, and how fidelity can sometimes be more a matter of dumb luck and opportunity (or lack thereof) than it is a matter of strength of character.
The rest of it I will have to meditate on a bit. I'm not convinced that there was anything really there worth the agonizing amount of time spent on it, but something may dawn on me.
500. Cellar Door - 9/26/1999 1:37:45 AM
What about that Bundt cake?
501. Raskolnikov - 9/26/1999 2:15:29 AM
what Bundt cake?
502. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 2:16:03 AM
Did you read my review?
503. Raskolnikov - 9/26/1999 2:31:43 AM
Pseudo: yes, I did. I think you make a great point about the lack of dramatization of Kidman's fantasies.
But I'm not sure that the point of the film is that us that "fidelity and infidelity are states of mind at least as much as they are realised behaviours". While the final brief scene in the toy store adds some support to that argument, when Kidman talks about "their adventures, both real and imagined" on an equivalent basis, I can't see how the bulk of the film backs that up. I would be interested in what you have to say.
If anything, it seemed to me that the film was about the precariousness of fidelity - when so many alternatives exist. The central marriage is the only one we are introduced to in the film, and their relationship seems to be portrayed as a rare thing. I'm not putting my feet firmly on that interpretation yet. As I said, I am still mulling the film over, but that is my hunch as to what it is "about".
504. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 2:47:22 AM
Did you read my review?
505. Cellar Door - 9/26/1999 11:11:13 AM
Yes I read your review, Pseudo.
Cruise gives the hooker a Bundt cake on his second visit. This salient fact has been discussed at length in the "Eyes Wide Shut" thread in Table Talk. I think the Bundyt cake is a reference to the slab in "2001."
506. JudithAtHome - 9/26/1999 11:19:08 AM
Please read the article by Lee Siegel on Eyes Wide Shut in the October Harpers; it is thought provoking and has a great slant on the critical reaction to this film.
507. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 11:31:55 AM
Oooooooo, the Bundt cake a reference to the monolith in 2001.
Ooooo, how deep.
Cellardweller, I was asking the lover of Sonya whether he had read the review.
508. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 11:34:46 AM
Raskolnikov, I don't see why your interpretation and mine are necessarily mutually exclusive.
My interpretation is backed up by the fact that Cruise spends the whole film attempting to commit infidelity but never manages it, while Kidman, in effect, has succeeded at it.
509. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 11:39:23 AM
"...when Kidman talks about 'their adventures, both real and imagined' on an equivalent basis, I can't see how the bulk of the film backs that up."
I don't understand this sentence. You can't see how the bulk of the film backs up Kidman's statement, or my interpretation? Kidman's statement seems to bear out my interpretation.
Anyway, the film is mediocre. Kubrick was mediocre. After Dr Strangelove, the lecher didn't make any film which was not a preening, hermetic exercise in lighting and framing.
510. Cellar Door - 9/26/1999 2:07:10 PM
I'm not one to turn up my nose at lighting and framing, Pseudo. Especially in "Barry Lyndon." Love the last scene: writing checks. That's more obscene than full-frontal nudity in this culture.Imagine actually SHOWING it.
511. Cellar Door - 9/26/1999 2:10:50 PM
What's interesting is that Kidman's confession of desiring an adulterous affair obsesses Cruise. Had she done it -- say with the Hungarian --I would imagine he could negotiate it. The Hungarian is silly beyond belief. The naval officer, however, who we never really see, is the embodiment of passion unleashed.
Have you read the piece in the new "Brill's Content" on how Pat Kingsley's "Grestest sex movie of all time" sell backfired on "EWS"? Very, very funny.
512. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 2:18:46 PM
I'm not one to turn up my nose at lighting and framing, Pseudo.
I wasn't turning up my nose at lighting and framing. Those are vital things. I was turning up my nose at mere lighting and framing.
513. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 2:19:09 PM
italics off
514. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 2:19:19 PM
did they go off?
515. ConnieMack - 9/26/1999 2:20:18 PM
testing
516. Raskolnikov - 9/26/1999 5:25:44 PM
Pseudo:
"I don't understand this sentence. You can't see how the bulk of the film backs up Kidman's statement, or my interpretation? Kidman's statement seems to bear out my interpretation."
I was agreeing that Kidman's comment bears out your statement. I was saying that I didn't see much else which did. Your expanded comments cleared things up a bit.
"Anyway, the film is mediocre. Kubrick was mediocre. After Dr Strangelove, the lecher didn't make any film which was not a preening, hermetic exercise in lighting and framing."
Change this to "after Clockwork Orange", and I will agree. Clockwork, while not perfect, has other things of interest, and I am a big defender of 2001. But the world would not be worse place if Barry Lyndon, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, and EWS disappeared from it.
517. Cellar Door - 9/26/1999 6:07:05 PM
Woooo! Heavyosity there Rask!
Needless to say, I disagree.
518. CalGal - 9/26/1999 6:15:11 PM
Oh, I agree with Rask. Although I loathe and despise 2001, the most tedious great movie ever made, I can't imagine a world in which we didn't have HAL and "Daisy" and the ape sequence at the beginning. So it passes. As does Clockwork Orange, a novel that should rightly have been considered unfilmable--yet Kubrick does amazing things with it.
But after that? An objective consideration of Kubrick's work from Lyndon on would rate him a middling director at best.
519. Cellar Door - 9/26/1999 7:38:36 PM
And who would you place above him?
520. CalGal - 9/26/1999 7:59:55 PM
All of the following directors have made more great films than Kubrick (in no particular order):
521. pseudoerasmus - 9/26/1999 8:00:43 PM
Clockwork Orange was an intellectually puerile exercise in, again, lighting and framing, as well as leering.
When it comes to movies, I think of Raskolnikov as a male version of Pauline Kael.
522. CalGal - 9/26/1999 8:06:08 PM
Hey, no nasty remarks to participants.
Clockwork Orange was a very 70s film, and parts of it are a pain. But it was more than lighting and framing. It was a tough book to film, and he captured it far better than anyone would expect.
523. Cellar Door - 9/26/1999 8:23:05 PM
Pauline just turned 80. How old is rask anyway?
My faves:
Jacques Tati
Federico Fellini
Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger
Max Ophuls
Patrice Chereau
Chris Marker
Jean-Luc Godard
Jacques Rivette
Jacques Demy
Derek Jarman
Charles Walters
524. CalGal - 9/26/1999 8:55:08 PM
Well, we weren't talking favorites--I was just naming directors who had made more great films than Kubrick and therefore be considered a greater director. So I'll respond to your list on those grounds.
I clearly missed Fellini. I wouldn't have instantly thought of Powell and Pressburger, but I came up with four or five gems once I saw their names. Still, I'm not sure they belong on the list ahead of Kubrick.
Demy and Tati both made some great movies, but I don't think they made enough to make the list. They are debatable, though. Godard--eh. After Breathless, I see nothing warranting the "great" rating.
Charles Walters did not make any great films. The closest is Easter Parade, which is a damn good musical. Ditto Derek Jarman. Patrice Chereau made Queen Margot, but other than that?
Orphuls? If I haven't heard of most of his movies, he doesn't go on the list ahead of Kubrick. That's the rule. I just made it up. Jacques Rivette is gone on those grounds too. Ditto Chris Marker.
One other who makes the "great" list--Eisenstein. I myself do not care for Altman, but I think he made more movies that are generally considered to be great than Kubrick did.
525. CalGal - 9/26/1999 9:58:18 PM
Incidentally, I haven't had much time to research links for this thread. My own preferences are in the butterscotch bar--I pretty much get everything I need from the IMD and 777-film (for movie times, that is). Mote Movies remains out of date, for which I apologize. I will do my best to get it updated in the next couple weeks.
Any other links desired?
526. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 12:42:48 AM
I don't know why "Full Metal Jacket" seems to always get such a bad rap; it's a very well-made movie, with some intense performances. Maybe not an all-time classic, but damned good nonetheless.
"Millennium math" seems to be spreading -- despite the fact that it premiered in October of 1975, "Saturday Night Live" is having its 25th anniversary show tonight. Regardless, it's just what we were running short of --yet another skit compilation NBC can slap together on a $30 video and shill for the entire upcoming season, which will probably consist of maybe 11 new episodes.
Why come up with new material when you can constantly regurgitate the same old crap and convince suckers to pay for it?
527. Nostradamus - 9/27/1999 12:48:07 AM
It's their 25th season, Cartman, that may or may not be worth commemorating, but I agree with the rest of what you had to say.
528. CalGal - 9/27/1999 12:48:24 AM
Why, indeed? There are too many suckers, Cart.
Quick quiz--which of the following actors has never received an Oscar nomination?
529. Nostradamus - 9/27/1999 12:49:51 AM
The logical guess is 4, but I can't prove I'm not guessing because I am. :)
530. Cellar Door - 9/27/1999 12:52:37 AM
I would place Kubrick with Eisenstein -- on the second tier.
"Queen Margot" is a teriffic movie, but the key Chereau films are "L'Homme Blesse" and "Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train."
Besiudes "Easter Parade" Walters is responsible for the matchless "Good News," "Lili," "The Belle of New York," and "Easy to Love." He also directed "The Night They Invented Champagne" and "Ah Yes, I Remember It Well" numbers in "Gigi" when Arthur Freed was dissatisfied with Minnelli's dailies.
If Godard means nothing to you but "Breathless" then you haven't been to the movies in 40 years. "Weekend," "2 or 3 Things I Know About her,""Pierrot le Fou," "Vivre Sa Vie," "Made in U.S.A." "A Woman is a Woman," and "Nouvelle Vague" are all superior to "Breathless."
531. CalGal - 9/27/1999 12:53:34 AM
I will not respond to guesses, but people are welcome to mention nominations if known.
532. Cellar Door - 9/27/1999 12:53:41 AM
You should also run right out and get a DVD of Ophuls' "Lola Montes" -- the greatest film about the mass media yet made.
533. Cellar Door - 9/27/1999 12:54:21 AM
Rivette's "Celine and Julie Go Boating" is available on tape.
534. CalGal - 9/27/1999 1:09:10 AM
Cellar,
Yes, I know what Walters directed. I stand by my original assessment. I agree that Good News and Lili are also good films, but I don't think they are great. Hell, they aren't even great musicals, much less great movies.
If Godard means nothing to you but "Breathless" then you haven't been to the movies in 40 years.
Shrug. I didn't say he meant nothing to me but "Breathless". But to claim that someone who hasn't seen those other movies is someone who hasn't been to the movies in 40 years is, well, it's just a tad silly, Cellar. (In fact, I have seen some of his other movies--Masculin, Feminine and Sauve qui peut--and bleah, I say to both of them)
I mean, I haven't seen Chi-Chi Boudret's version of My Mother Married a Communist Brainfucker, either. But I feel sure that my knowledge of great movies is not tarnished by the omission.
535. Nostradamus - 9/27/1999 1:16:22 AM
Judd Hirsch Ordinary People Best Supporting Actor
536. CalGal - 9/27/1999 1:18:41 AM
Nos--yep.
537. Nostradamus - 9/27/1999 1:31:15 AM
Cary Grant None but the lonely heart. Best Actor
Penny serenade. Best Actor
Red Buttons Sayonara Best Supporting Actor
Sean Penn Dead Man Walking Best Actor
That leaves Kiefer's Dad as the odd man out.
538. CalGal - 9/27/1999 1:37:28 AM
Yep!
Sutherland was on that irritating man's show on Bravo tonight, and I realized that he'd never even been nominated. Absurd, really--although his work in the 80s was a definite drop-off from his 70s heyday.
539. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 1:53:54 AM
If you have HBO Signature, you might want to set the timer on your VCR for 2:15AM (or stay up late), and catch "Waco: The Rules of Engagement". An interesting 1997 documentary which brought to light some of the things we're just starting to hear about now in the "news media", wrt the FBI's malfeasance in the Waco affair. Underscores the contention I made about 6 months ago that Janet Reno is either inexcusably inept, or the most corrupt AG since Ed Meese (or John Mitchell, take your pick).
Note: this movie is fairly graphic. If you're the squeamish type, this may not be your cup of tea. But the information presented is well worth having to sit through photographs of barbecued (and cyanide-gassed) people.
540. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 1:57:23 AM
Cartman, I don't understand your millennial math comment. I reckon this actually is season number 25 for SNL. 1975 was the equivalent of their "year 0."
541. CalGal - 9/27/1999 1:59:55 AM
Yeah, I've been meaning to rent it. Is there anything worse in it than the children who were killed by the cyanide gas? And is HBO Signature the standard run of the mill HBO?
542. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 2:20:06 AM
Spence:
Cartman, I don't understand your millennial math comment. I reckon this actually is season number 25 for SNL. 1975 was the equivalent of their "year 0."
An "anniversary", Spence, generally means that you are celebrating the year after you have gone through it. Let's say you and your wife got married on September 27, 1995. Would tomorrow be your 4th or 5th anniversary?
I understand that they mean that they are beginning their 25th season. My original point was really that the whole "milestone" thing for SNL reeked of hucksterism, and the endless stream of commercials hawking their 25th anniversary wares on their website bore out that very assumption.
The hoary "year zero" argument, wrt counting the millennium or whatever, is fallacious to begin with, since zero is not a positive number. One would assume we reserve the counting of years to positive integers only.
543. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 2:22:41 AM
I think you're wound a little too tightly about this, Cartman.
Why should one use natural numbers to enumerate years? Convention, you say?
544. CalGal - 9/27/1999 2:23:53 AM
Ahem.
This looks perilously like........math.
Or the evils of large corporations.
545. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 2:24:49 AM
There's a Michael Moore movie waiting to be made here, I can feel it.
546. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 2:28:53 AM
Cal:
It's worth renting. I can't vouch as to whether you'd want Spawn to watch it. Probably not. The worst shot, imo, is of the charred corpse of an 8-year-old girl, severely contorted by muscle contractions caused by the CS gas fired into the compound (CS turns into a cyanide variant when heated).
DSS providers offer an HBO "package", which used to consist of HBO(East & West Coast), HBO2(East & West), HBO3(one only), and HBO Family(E & W). Several months ago, they changed the names of 2 and 3 to "Plus" and "Signature". Plus is essentially the same as regular HBO, just different movies and things. Signature is mostly devoted to HBO original movies and series, which is very cool, because they show re-runs of "Larry Sanders" and "Dennis Miller" every weekday.
I have heard that several cable systems also now offer all these HBO stations, instead of just the one.
547. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 2:30:15 AM
I'm betting you're a big Dennis Miller fan, Cartman.
548. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 2:36:05 AM
Spence:
I think you're wound a little too tightly about this, Cartman.
Not at all. Like I said, I brought it up in the first place because it smelled like a lame marketing ploy. Merely additional commentary on a declining comedy show, for your edification, as always.
Why should one use natural numbers to enumerate years? Convention, you say?
I dunno. Because it's worked so far. Because numbers work better than letters for counting (although a hexadecimal calendar might be intriguing), and irrational numbers and fractions might be problematic.
"Convention", I say? I didn't say anything about a convention.
549. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 2:37:23 AM
Spence:
I'm betting you're a big Dennis Miller fan, Cartman.
Absolutely. Who isn't?
550. CalGal - 9/27/1999 2:39:51 AM
I hate to break it to you, but Miller isn't funny, Cart.
551. Nostradamus - 9/27/1999 2:43:30 AM
I'd take Dennis Miller over that Politically Incorrect dufus (Bill Maher?) any day of the week. Undoubtedly, his shtick has worn thin over time, but he's had some excellent insights on a variety of issues and presented them in an entertaining way, imo.
552. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 2:47:12 AM
Cal:
Well, he's not always funny, that's for sure. And his "interviews" are usually dreadful. But he's pretty consistent. Overall, I think he's pretty damn funny when he's not being lazy.
However, I should point out that "Larry Sanders" is a far better reason to watch HBO, as far as comedy is concerned.
553. Nostradamus - 9/27/1999 2:48:04 AM
And he was a great Weekend Update anchor during his SNL days. That Colin Quinn guy is so bad that he's made what used to be my favorite part of the show into the part where I turn off the TV and go to bed.
554. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 2:53:22 AM
Maher's show was better and sharper back in the Comedy Central days. The Monica thing ruined the fucking show, as far as I'm concerned. All they talked about for 9 months was fat chicks giving blowjobs. Since then, most of Maher's guest list has consisted of the various squawkers from that time period, Ann Coulter and the like. And since they're all too familiar with each other, they just talk over one another and you can't hear what any of 'em are saying.
Miller is also funny because he's not afraid to be self-deprecating. Every time he has Dana Carvey on he asks Carvey to impersonate him, which takes some balls, if you think about it. I do a pretty decent Miller impersonation myself, and I once seriously considered calling in to the show and fucking with him, then I remembered -- life is just too damn short to call in to talk shows.
I'm saving myself for "Win Ben Stein's Money".
555. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 2:58:17 AM
Nostradamus:
I agree. I think Miller was the best news guy SNL has had so far (though Norm MacDonald was close in his own goofy way). Colin Quinn is trying, but he's not too good. He's better as a support guy in ensemble skits, and was pretty good in a "Larry Sanders" episode, he's just not cut out for news guy duty.
SNL has bigger problems than that, though. Last season was pretty lousy. They got some mileage out of "The View" and "Celebrity Jeopardy" skits, but they can't run variations of those forever. And it seemed like there was a re-run or compilation show every other week, which is a sure sign of decline.
556. Angel-Five - 9/27/1999 2:59:16 AM
Ben Stein and Dennis Miller are both great. Dennis Miller is deliberately obscure and I've found that the people who don't get him invariably don't get his references, though they will insist otherwise. Half the fun with Miller is being in on the inside joke. The other half is that he's genuinely funny and Dennis gets pissed off about stuff and while sometimes that's tiresome it still injects a certain je ne sais quoi into his act. He isn't Carson but then again no one is and no one will be for a very, very long time.
I totally agree that he was Weekend Update anchor par excellence. He's one of the very very few people who came out of the last fifteen years of SNL who are worth the time to watch.
I just like Ben Stein's schtick. Any show where he can curse the contestants just appeals to me.
557. Angel-Five - 9/27/1999 3:01:39 AM
I saw Norm McDonald live once, right after he said 'fuck' on the air. He was very very drunk during his act. He got a lot more voluble as he sobered but was, sadly, funnier when he was drunk. I like Norm and some of his standup was hilarious but I like Dennis Miller better.
558. Nostradamus - 9/27/1999 3:05:46 AM
I don't know if SNL is doomed or not. But the current crap they're running is hopeless. I don't know if Lorne Michaels is the problem or if it's the current cast, but something has to give.
I think most of my favorite SNL stuff has been political parody and they don't seem to do much of that anymore. There's the occasional Clinton spoof (which is usually pretty good) but I can't think of a single recurring skit that I enjoy. But a lot of it has to do with the fact that when SNL started it was on the cutting edge in terms of cool and risque. And now it's pablum compared to a lot of the stuff that's out there.
559. Angel-Five - 9/27/1999 3:09:15 AM
The only SNL skit I have seen in recent memory that was humorous -- and bear in mind I haven't sat to watch a SNL in over a decade, all my viewings of it have been either channel-surfing five-minute blocks or bits and pieces at friends' places -- was the bit where everyone is at the Oval Office drinking beer, manifestly 'not gloating'. And the part which made me laugh was Monica swigging beer from a 40 and slopping some on her dress.
The rest I've seen is crap.
560. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 3:18:01 AM
Well, I meant natural numbers as opposed to integers starting at any arbitrary number, not fractions. Up to a relabeling, it's exactly the same number system. Choosing one over another is a matter of convention. And obviously I was not suggesting that we count zero years, but rather perform a thought experiment in which one of them be named zero, and conventions of integer enumeration be used to count up from zero.
But screw that --there are bigger fish to fry. Did you see that those cretins are using the logo, saturday night live25? What the hell is this? I mean, is this like, saturday night live to the 25th power? I suggest you begin a jihad.
"Who isn't?" Ugh. Me.
I might add that the problem with Politically Incorrect is not moving to ABC, or the Lewinsky fracas, but rather that I am to believe that the star of Ally McBeal has something more intelligent to say about social security reform than any of my neighbors, all of whom, while noticeably uglier and heavier than Ally McBeal, would afford the benefit of actual human contact if I desired an uninformed conversation on the matter.
561. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 3:55:18 AM
Pseudo:
"Clockwork Orange was an intellectually puerile exercise in, again, lighting and framing, as well as leering."
I think it has an interesting POV on the role of violence in society, and, of course, makes an interesting argument about free will. I don't think the movie is a masterpiece, by any stretch of the imagination (I would much rather defend 2001), but I think there is more to it than you attribute.
"When it comes to movies, I think of Raskolnikov as a male version of Pauline Kael."
Come now. I differ from her in writing style, and taste (Kael hated 2001), I never make unnecessary references to Antonioni, and I am much taller.
562. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 3:58:04 AM
A5:
For me, sometimes the fun of Miller is when he goes for such an obscure, strained reference, you get it but it's a groaner anyway. He knows it and admits it when he overreaches. But by and large, he has perfected the art of refining his rants into a cohesive theme, which no one else does on that level. It's the one part of his HBO show that is almost indestructible.
As for SNL, the only part that is consistently funny anymore is the Robert Smigel cartoon that appears every once in a while. "The Ambiguously Gay Duo", "Fun With Real Audio", the spoofs on "Schoolhouse Rock". Very funny stuff, frequently with a political edge.
563. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 3:58:34 AM
Spence:
Oh, I know what you mean with the conventions of enumeration, and the advantagess of using natural numbers over fractions. I'm just having a little fun with you on it. I confess, I have the unfortunate habit of being extremely anal-retentive about certain things. I literally cringe if I see a sign, in a store or whatever, that is misspelled. Can't help it, it's hardwired in my brain. The millennium thing probably falls into the same category. It's not that I actually consider it a big deal that many people think the next one starts 01/01/00 instead of 01/01/01, it's that it doesn't even occur to me why anyone would possibly pick the wrong date, when the correct one is perfectly, mathematically clear, according to the scientific timekeeping convention the entire world uses (in Greenwich).
Nonetheless, it's still fun to stir up shit sometimes. It's that more than uptightness. Don't worry, I'm not losing any sleep over this, and I promise not to call you a moron (but reserve the right to any and all other names).
What the hell is this [saturday night live25]? I mean, is this like, saturday night live to the 25th power? I suggest you begin a jihad.
Tell me how you got that 25 in superscript, and I'll sharpen my crayons and begin my letter-writing campaign.
That is a smaller problem of PI, the "Ally McBeal" factor, but Maher actually does do a fair job of getting informed panelists, even from the celebrity caste. Too often, though, it devolves into a head-butting contest of political agenda, into which the saner panelists can scarcely wedge a word.
Kind of like when Ace & I are scrapping. Cooler heads can just sit & watch the fun.
564. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 3:59:40 AM
Rask:
If it makes you feel any better, I've always thought of you as a male version of Nathan Lane.
565. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 4:04:48 AM
heh, And I reserve the right not to care at all if you do call me a moron or any other names. But I am glad you are at peace about all this.
The naming of the start of the next millennium has nothing to do with worldwide numbering or timing conventions. It is completely different, and a convention of its own.
Superscripts: (sup)25(/sup). Use angle brackets. Subscripts are the same, except use "sub" instead of "sup."
"Cooler heads can just sit & watch the fun."
And, when possible, change the channel. Or read a book.
566. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 4:07:22 AM
The thing I can't get past with Miller is that he's an idiot. I know he says things, about the policy process, etc., to be funny, but that kind of humor is supposed to work because it has a grain of truth.
But I decided a long time ago that I can't stand him. Tell me, is the humor on his show anything like his telephone commercial where he talks about the price of bottled water?
567. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 4:13:50 AM
And I reserve the right not to care at all if you do call me a moron or any other names. But I am glad you are at peace about all this.
Well, I was kidding about calling you names anyway. And I'm glad that you're glad; I'm always Mr. Peaceful. Ask anyone.
"Read a book". Ah, the good old days. Who has time to read anymore?
Testing: saturdaynightlive25
568. EricCartman - 9/27/1999 4:18:24 AM
Cool. It worked. Thanks, Spence.
Tell me, is the humor on [Miller's] show anything like his telephone commercial where he talks about the price of bottled water?
No, not usually. Again, the rants are the most sharply written pieces on his HBO show. (For non-watchers, the rant is followed up by the usually lousy interview and phone calls from viewers, then he "does the news" -- adds snarky captions to photos of famous people, usually politicians). The rest of the show is generally hit-and-miss, but I find most of the rants to be very funny, and while they're not factual to a T, they generally are at least predicated on pragmatic common sense.
569. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 4:21:52 AM
Saw American Beauty this weekend. Hated it.
I was really surprised when I saw Rask say it's been getting good reviews. It is a self conscious epic that I would have guessed critics would love to hate.
The dialogue usually reminded me of the 1-act productions written and directed by my high school classmates. The movie is all over the place on a subject that evokes an easy response from everyone: nobody, even suburbanites, likes the suburbia depicted in the movie. It is easy to sit and watch smugly the frenzy underlying the facade of tranquility, complete with manufactured symbolism involving roses and dark red.
I saw a commercial which described it as this genration's version of the graduate. I suspect the "this generation's" part of that is because (i) in this movie the kids, while demented, have it together and see the world of their parents not through a fog but a magnifying glass that winds up being the cause of their dementia (as one of the characters essentially says at one point). (ii) The subject of what is, as far as any of the audience is concerned, desired and about-to-be-consummated pedophilia is supposed to be treated humorously. Maybe I'm too Midwestern that way but I found it pretty damn disgusting.
Spoiler in white font: The homosexuality dealt with at the end was particularly weak. Can there be a more banal revelation than Chris Cooper's marine colonel, the virulent homophobe, turning out to be gay and offing Spacey in a jealous rage over his jilting?
But I did like that Kevin Spacey's character retreated into an ice cream high after a tense supper. That was kinda funny. And that the slut teenager consoles herself by saying everything that's meant to happen does, or everything that's happens is meant to -- that was funny. This seems to be a mantra anymore in suburbia.
570. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 4:24:57 AM
Well, I know you were kidding. But I'm glad that you're glad that I'm glad that you're at peace.
571. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 4:30:49 AM
And another thing, were the performances good in American Beauty? The kid Ricky was pretty good. The daughter Jane was pretty good (a shitty and misguided choice for her name, imo -- Kyle, Madison or Sierra would have been more appropriately hackneyed). The real estate king was not bad. But the principals -- how challenging is it to portray a strung out suburbanite unsatisfied with much of anything?
Oh yeah, another spoiler: "Fuck me your majesty" was also pretty damn funny.
572. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 4:43:25 AM
Spence: solidarity, bro.
What I liked about the lead performances was the way they presented their "masks", and what I liked about Spacey in particular was the way he conveyed his character's evolution. He believably portrays his character's pathetic, weak, emasculated self-loathing, as well as his character's eventual redemption.
But I really did hate this film, and I am not going to say anything positive about it more than that. The performances are not worth putting up with its misanthropic, contrived, derivitive bullshit.
And reviews have really been stellar. Their are a handful of naysayers, but critics and audiences have generally been enthusiastic. Lots of Oscar buzz.
If this film looks like it is the Best Picture frontrunner, I am cancelling my Oscar party.
573. CalGal - 9/27/1999 4:47:37 AM
It's really interesting, the disconnect between people I've talked to and the critics on this movie. I can only assume that it's because Spacey and Benning are critical sweethearts.
574. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 5:00:31 AM
Oh, I guess I didn't get redemption from Spacey's character. I felt the evolution was of the "punctuated equilibrium" variety, in which he just snapped, and reached a new plateau overnight (and with a mighty lame reason for it). The character seemed to go from one plateau to a different one. What I felt it lacked was any build up, or tension about where the guy was going. Not that it was Spacey's fault.
And the other thing was, I am not sure the new plateau was in any sense higher than the one the character left. All of sudden we have a pedophilic, image conscious version of The Dude from the Big Lebowski. Yay. But again, not Spacey's fault, I don't think.
575. CalGal - 9/27/1999 6:15:37 AM
The Third Man:
(1949) dir. Carol Reed
Great movies are not completely timeless. They just last because they are so wonderful that we overlook the signs of age. The idiotic romantic subplot. The goofy slang. The casually *ist comments and situations.
A category above "great", then. Some movies are so genuine, so naturally constructed and performed, so perfect that they exist outside of any era. They could have been made yesterday, and the people seeing them for the first time 20 years from now will think the same thing. Casablanca. Rear Window. Chinatown.
 | And then, every so often, there's one on the list that stayed under the radar. One of these movies is The Third Man, which is often described as the greatest movie you've never heard of. It is hard to categorize--it fits the bill nicely as film noir, a mystery, a love story, |
576. CalGal - 9/27/1999 6:17:18 AM
Holly Martins (Joseph Cotten), a down on his luck pulp novel writer, has travelled to Berlin at the behest of his friend Harry Lime, who he's known since grade school. Holly is appalled to learn that Harry was killed in an automobile accident shortly before he arrived. After Harry's funeral, where Holly spots a mysterious, mourning beauty, he is collared by the British police (Vienna, like Berlin, was zoned after the war). The police major (Trevor Howard) explains coldly that Harry was a blackmarketer of the worst sort.
Holly is a credulous soul, the quintessential clueless American, who is determined to clear his friend's name and solve the mystery of his death. He finds the mysterious beauty (Alida Valli) who was, of course, Harry's lover, and with her help slowly pieces together the last minutes of Harry's life. Without her help, he soon falls madly in love with her, and becomes more interested in proving Harry's unworthiness to her than in determining how her lover and his friend was murdered.
Fortunately, Harry Lime wasn't murdered. He makes what is generally considered the finest screen entrance in film history, played by Orson Welles in what is the best performance of his career. I expect to take some grief for that statement, but I'll fight for it--Welles as Lime is gorgeous, he is funny, he is unmannered, he is consistent, and he is brilliant. The man is probably best in small doses, anyway. His screen time is limited, yet his presence dominates.
The story can be seen in some sense as the counterpart to Casablanca. The latter tries to be cynical, but it's a propaganda film at heart. The blackmarketers pay Sam what he's worth, the corrupt police officer saves the cynical American hero, who in the end gives up any pretense at acting out of self-interest and sends the girl away.
577. CalGal - 9/27/1999 6:19:00 AM
Reed spent the war making documentaries; Green was a spy. They knew their subject matter intimately. Their Americans aren't cynical--the very idea of a cynical American probably amused them no end. Both Americans in the film are romantics, in different ways (yes, Lime is, too). And each demonstrates, individually, one other American trademark: Lime is the capitalist who'll do anything for more money, and Martins is the foolish idealist, bleeding sentiment and emotionalism.
Leaving it up to the Europeans to show us the true nature of world-weary pessimism and a decent level of misanthropy--and underneath all that, a morality that makes the Americans look cheap in comparison. The major uses Martin's doglike devotion to Anna to persuade him to sell out his friend; in fact, he probably sought out a reason to arrest her just to use her in such a fashion. Yet his anger and outrage at the children who were destroyed by Lime is the deepest, purest expression of humanity presented in the movie. Anna is not distressed at the news that he destroyed thousands of lives for money--what is important to her is that he made her smile and provided her with forged papers. Yet she is truly happy to learn that he lives--even if they have no future together--and her friendship is not cheap, as Martins discovers.
The Third Man demonstrates, in every frame and every word, all there is to know about post-WWII Europe. It was shot in entirety on location in Vienna (Reed damn near fought another war to get approval for this), and the signs of destruction and chaos are everywhere. The authenticity of the time, the cynicism, the greed, the social and economic upheaval--all are captured and displayed without explanation. They act as a backdrop, informing and enriching the story.
578. CalGal - 9/27/1999 6:28:49 AM
Robert Krasker's Oscar-winning cinematography--the only Oscar received, incidentally--is outstanding. The sewer chase, Martins' race through the rubble-filled streets, the aforementioned first shot of Harry Lime, the Ferris wheel, the bookending funerals, and the unforgettable final scene, extended and quietly merciless.
Add Graham Green's screenplay to the short list of the finest ever written (Chinatown, Sweet Smell of Success are two others that immediately come to mind). While it is true that the "cuckoo clock" monologue was written by Welles himself, Green's dialogue is multi-layered, revealing, and yet economical in moving his complicated story along. There aren't a number of quotable lines, but it is consistently witty and incisive.
 | All the characters are genuine and marvellously developed, made uniformly memorable by another gift that Reed fought for: perfect casting. Welles I have already mentioned, and although he is only in the movie for less than 10 minutes, his amused, untroubled |
579. CalGal - 9/27/1999 6:33:01 AM
The supporting characters are all equally well-cast: my favorite is Bernard Lee as the beefy Sergeant Paine, Calloway's assistant. Wilfrid Hyde-White as a smarmy English cultural attache, the homosexual lovers Dr. Winkel and Baron Kurtz, the creepy little boy, his father the hapless porter, the weird old lady landlord, the even weirder balloon salesman--all inhabit their roles completely and naturally.
Then there are the little things: the continual name mistakes, the fact that Martins is a pulp Western writer, the smarmy way that Hyde-White chatters on as he maneuvers his mistress out the door, the way that Anna doesn't look down into the drawer she opens because she knows what will be there, the marvellous nonchalance with which Paine gutpunches Martins and then apologizes--there are countless moments and the film consequently stands up to repeated viewings very well. You'll always find something new to enjoy.
Oh, and then there's that zither music.
I saw Third Man at the Castro in San Francisco, with several hundred other movie buffs. I left the theater absolutely pumped, high with joy and excitement--for all the many movies I love, I rarely get that enthused. It ranks very high on my list of unforgettable cinematic experiences.
I don't know if it's still in the theaters; if it is, don't rob yourself. Hunt it down, do your best to see it with a large audience. And take a friend, because you'll probably want to find a coffee house afterwards and talk about it for three more hours. 
580. CalGal - 9/27/1999 6:35:02 AM
I've been playing with putting images in reviews for fun and also because I'm noticing a discrepancy between preview and posted results. For example, the first two images mapped perfectly with the text in preview. Just so's you don't think I'm that careless.
581. Dantheman - 9/27/1999 9:15:00 AM
I saw American Beauty over the weekend and loved it. The acting was spectacular, especially Spacey's, for the reasons Raskolnikov said. I did not find it misanthropic or contrived, but rather very much alive, and Spacey's story even a bit redemptive. I also liked the sense of tension throughout the movie, which reminded me of The Ice Storm (a movie that deserved far better praise than it received) more than anything else recently.
582. Cellar Door - 9/27/1999 9:36:06 AM
"Redemptive"? He gets to act like an overgrow adolescent and that's "redemptive"?
"The Third Man"is the most elaborate "Special Guest Star" appearance ever put on film.
Among many, many other things.
For all its obvious pleasures its extremely subtle. Who are these people really? We never QUITE know.
583. webfeet - 9/27/1999 9:52:01 AM
I loved American Beauty, too. Dynamite acting and cast and, overall, a clever satire of suburban attitudes. I'm not sure any other actor could have played Lester Burnham and succeeded in making him likeable, but I think I could watch Kevin Spacey in anything after that. What I liked best was that it was a compassionate film, that its potshots were not lifted from the usual bag of cliches. Even Angela was less like a character out of Sweet Valley High, and made more complex. In that way, the characters broke from expectation and were not at all stereotypical. AB is inspired, original and worthy of the effusive praise it's received in the last week. The writing, especially at the end, stays with you.
584. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 11:05:48 AM
Spence: "And the other thing was, I am not sure the new plateau was in any sense higher than the one the character left. All of sudden we have a pedophilic, image conscious version of The Dude from the Big Lebowski. Yay. But again, not Spacey's fault, I don't think."
I think this is another one of the film's faults, while Spacey's character undoubtedly experiences what the film-makers think is "growth and redemption", it is pretty small potatoes. As Cellar says, it basically consists of a reversion to adolescence.
I watched Ikiru on TCM a few weeks ago (Kurosawa is TCM's director of the month), and so it was fresh in my mind as I watched American Beauty. Both films feature a lead character whose impending death is announced in the opening frames, and both films say that these characters have already been dead for years.
But Ikiru's Takeshi Shimura earns his redemption through selflessnes, perseverance, and humility in fighting the city bureaucracy to get a disease-causing swampy area turned into a children's playground. Kevin Spacey, however, (SPOILER) earns his redemption through buying a muscle car, telling off his wife, working out, and refusing to nail a 16-year old girl.
I am amazed by what evidently passes for profound.
585. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 11:10:52 AM
webfeet: I think the film *tried* to be a satire of suburbia, but completely missed the mark. I saw nothing satirized in the film that I recognized, as a suburbanite. I think it is more a satire of Hollywood's conceptualization of suburbia.
586. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 11:11:06 AM
Cal: nice review of Third Man.
587. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 11:15:18 AM
Dan:
"I saw American Beauty over the weekend and loved it. The acting was spectacular, especially Spacey's, for the reasons Raskolnikov said. I did not find it misanthropic or contrived, but rather very much alive, and Spacey's story even a bit redemptive. I also liked the sense of tension throughout the movie, which reminded me of The Ice Storm (a movie that deserved far better praise than it received) more than anything else recently."
SPOILERS
What I found particularly contrived was the subplot involving Chris Cooper. The events which lead him to think that Spacey's character is gay would make the creators of Three's Company blush in their dependence on misunderstanding a situation. And in the end, this subplot is the cause of Spacey's death. What does this signify? why did Spacey have to die? What is the film's moral, or lesson from his death? I think the answer is "never let a repressed-homosexual marine make a pass at you". Not particularly enlightening.
588. Dantheman - 9/27/1999 12:19:20 PM
Raskolnikov,
SPOILER
I found the meaning of this movie in the Spacey-Bening plot, not the Cooper subplot. I felt that Spacey's conduct, far from being juvenile, showed a sense of finding oneself and freeing oneself from the demands of a person (Bening) who did not have Spacey's best interests at heart. The death at the hands of Cooper, shows that one cannot predict the future, but must live one's life in the present. I suspect that the writer meant to give us a choice between a full life lived as Spacey did at the start and a shortened one lived for one's enjoyment and asks which is preferable.
589. 109109 - 9/27/1999 12:36:12 PM
Movies I Watched During Hurricane Floyd
(second in a series -previously reviewed "Cruel Intentions"))
As my vacation crumbled before me, and with Cruel Intentions in the bag and suffered, I moved on to more teen fare from the video store.
She's All That
She isn't. What she is is a female lead with big knockers, but her Mom died, and she's a withdrawn high school art student, and Freddie Prinze, Jr., he's the high school hunk, but his girlfriend dumps him for a shining star on MTV's The Real World (Matthew Lillard). Prinze's world is rocked. His position at the top of the social totem pole is threatened. So he takes a bet. He can make any girl in high school a prom queen. Do they choose a fat girl with acne? No. Do they choose a girl with a wanderng eye? No. Do they choose a girl with a palsy? No. They choose the girl with the big knockers.
And guess what? She cleans up real nice, becomes muy populare, and realizes that with popularity comes detriments. Not fat, acne-laden, palsied detriments. But a few lesser downsides. In the end, lessons are learned. Important lessons. Most important lesson? It is good to have big knockers.
The film can be recommended for one reason and one reason only - Lillard's performance as the self-absorbed "star" of The Real World. His funky dance at one of the high school parties (the median income for a California high schooler in modern film appears to be approximately $102,000) is hilarious and merited a rewind.
590. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 1:03:30 PM
Dan: I recommend watching "Ikiru". That movie generally did what you describe in post 588, and did much better, with greater emotional weight. It also takes a much stronger stand on the criteria for a "good life".
I did think that there was potential for the Bening-Spacey conflict - exploring how change can be difficult to accept for those close to you. But this was at best a sub-theme of the movie, and it was jettisoned in the conclusion, being used only as a red herring.
591. Adrianne - 9/27/1999 1:22:19 PM
Niner
Not for nuthin, but if your vacation was being ruined by Floyd, couldn't you have rented some decent movies? I mean, this seems like self-flagellation.
592. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 1:24:31 PM
You are surprised when Niner's rental choices reflect his oft-stated fixation on High School girls?
593. SpenceMirrlees - 9/27/1999 1:44:28 PM
Dantheman, if that is the message of American Beauty, that is quite ironic, for along with "everything that happens is meant to be and everything meant to be happens," "live in the moment" is perhaps the top suburban mantra du jour. One cannot attend any decent child's soccer match without hearing these companion sayings.
The reason I didn't think American Beauty was any good at all as a satire was that good satire can demolish its subject on that subject's own terms. American Beauty does not approach suburbia on its own terms, but rather terms that are as mawkish as Leave it to Beaver or the Brady Bunch. In fact, though they don't intend it, the latter two are almost better satires of suburbia than American Beauty.
594. 109109 - 9/27/1999 1:49:17 PM
Ad, Rask
Installments 3 and 4 are "The Faculty" and "Jawbreaker." I just needed to feel young again.
595. 109109 - 9/27/1999 1:50:28 PM
And the fact that the female protagonists were firm and in full adolescent flower does not give anyone the right to accuse me of self-flagellation, which risks blindness in all its forms.
596. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 1:54:25 PM
King of the Hill is probably the best suburban satire I can think of.
597. Raskolnikov - 9/27/1999 2:04:16 PM
Niner: no-one accused you of self-flagellation. The fact that you read this into our innocent posts is very... telling.
598. Cellar Door - 9/27/1999 4:07:56 PM
Aren't we glad we don't pay for Niner's dry cleaning?
599. PsychProf - 9/27/1999 4:14:11 PM
Cal...it is very neat to see the picture(s) as a part of the text. How do you do that? (I will check technical)
600. CalGal - 9/27/1999 4:37:32 PM
PP--I'll post it in Try the Mote, which is the place where we'll discuss those sorts of things.
601. Thrakkorzog - 9/27/1999 10:07:34 PM
CalGal,
I have only seen the 'The Third Man' on cable late at night, but, every time I run across it, I just have to watch it to the end. Everything about that movie works, the cinematography, the acting, and that zither just stays in my head hours afterwards. I especially love the harshness of the ending, where there is no redemption for Holly, no cheap reward of 'you did the right thing, now you get the girl'. However, I always saw Holly as a sympathetic character, a guy who is not really prepared to deal with the ambiguities of real life, or, perhaps, the realities of the post war chaos.
602. Amaxen@work - 9/27/1999 10:48:59 PM
Hi all,
Has anyone reviewed Brazil , one of my all time/cult favorite movies, on this thread lately?
603. ConnieMack - 9/28/1999 12:06:23 AM
I simply adore Brazil.
Thanks. Now I'll have that damn song in my head all night, as I wend my way to a saranwrapped 'cophagusian dawn.
604. Cellar Door - 9/28/1999 12:37:03 AM
Just in from "Being John Malkovich" aka "The Love Child That Brazil Tried To Hide."
Seriously, quite a lot of fun -- though not as much fun as it thinks it is.
I don't want to say anything more, for this is one of those truly rare occasions that the less you know the better.
The only thing I'll allow is that there's a joke about Charlie Sheen in it that brought down the house.
605. T. Tallis - 9/28/1999 2:43:39 AM
If I may break in and make an introductory video-rental suggestion, if there are any here looking for an interesting diversion, searching out a copy of Merchant-Ivory's Savages may prove rewarding. It's not exactly a period piece, and thankfully it's not exactly Slaves of New York either. From a script by the late Michael O'Donoghue, of all people, and starring Ultra Violet among others, including a strangely pink Sam Waterston, it tells the story of a tribe of primitive mudpeople who follow the trajectory of a mysterious croquet ball to an abandoned Long Island estate. O'Donoghue's early 1970s peak of blending the bizarre with the directly satirical is well utilized, along with plenty of more typically subversive jokes. The psychoanalytical explanatory narration, for example, is delivered in untranslated German, and much of the first half of the film has that hand-tinted film stock common among early silents. Lots of crude tastelessness, too, naturally. I doubt it's something Merchant-Ivory are often prone to pointing to at pitch sessions, but it is a highly interesting oddity.
606. CalGal - 9/28/1999 2:57:58 AM
I have heard of Savages before, but never seen it. Much as I love Sam the Man, I have always thought he chose his movies oddly. And I laughed much at "strangely pink". Nice review.
Welcome to the thread, btw.
Thrak,
I agree that Martins wasn't prepared to deal with real life, and I did think he was sympathetic--but also extremely unattractive. What made him sympathetic was his unflagging--if foolhardy--emotional courage. (Haven't got a sympathetic name, Calloway.) And if he pitied himself, he didn't do it for long.
607. Cellar Door - 9/28/1999 9:27:06 AM
"Savages" is most amusing. The script is credited to Mihael O'Donahue and George W.S. Trow. Asha Putli is also fatured in the cast, and Bobby Short sings the title song, whose opening lyrics proclaim (in those stirring Bobby Short tones) "They call us Savagaes, Because we dare to love!"
608. theDiva - 9/28/1999 9:32:57 AM
Cellar
I saw the most articulate, attractive and well-dressed man on AMC's Hollywood fashion special last evening......
609. theDiva - 9/28/1999 9:33:15 AM
dag nab it!
610. theDiva - 9/28/1999 9:33:41 AM
me and my toys.
611. Cellar Door - 9/28/1999 10:27:31 AM
(BLUSH!)
612. 109109 - 9/29/1999 10:37:00 AM
Third in a series
(previously reviewed-Cruel Intentions and She's All That)
As another casket floated by the street of my Williamsburg hotel, and Hurricane Floyd continued its lashing of the coastal area, I popped in the VCR . . .
Jawbreaker: The hot bitches run the high school. The top hot bitch is kidnapped by her three cohorts as a prank. She is accidentally killed in the process. The murder must be covered up. And the veneer of high school politics must be exposed in the process.
This is an update of the Winona Ryder-Christian Slater satire "Heathers." "Heathers," however, was funny. Jawbreaker is merely nasty, which is not all bad, but close. The insights are sledgehammered into your skull, the acting is over-the-top, and the film has a self-satisfied manner, constantly congratulating itself on its "in" perceptions. That said, Rebecca Gayheart, as one hot bitch with a conscience, is none too hard on the eyes. And Marilyn Manson's girlfriend, Rose McGowan (as the most insidious of the hot bitches), while she can't act a lick, she can lick. Her scene with the high school quarterback, where she makes him fellate a popsicle in a manner he would like emulated upon himself, is pretty clever. And she's wearing a see-through baby doll nightie that works for me.
I also like the Japanese title of Jawbreaker - Hard Candy.
613. Dantheman - 9/29/1999 11:07:17 AM
Niner,
Do you rent anything that doesn't feature "hot bitches"? If not, why are you wasting your time with PG-13 or R rated fare? When are we going to see your reviews of X rated stuff?
614. 109109 - 9/29/1999 11:11:26 AM
Dantheman
All in good time, Dan. All in good time. I'm working on a rating system commensurate with that of Al Goldstein (limp, semi-erect, 3/4 erect and proud stiffie).
615. Rick Nowood - 9/29/1999 7:38:13 PM
Savages sounds interesting -- bet Blockbuster doesn't have it, but I'll look. I recently made a relentless sweep of every shelf at Blockbuster, and found a few items of interest, notably Blue, White, and Red (the 3 French films), which I had never seen. But my movie list is now down to the tough nuts that I cannot find anywhere: eg Ah, Wilderness and The Blackboard Jungle. 1999 has been a really bad year for films -- I would say that the top three films of the year so far have all been animated.
Rick Norwood
www.io.com/~norwoodr
616. CalGal - 9/29/1999 7:56:26 PM
What's the third? Tarzan is, imo, the best movie this year. Iron Giantis terrific--did you see my review about 100 posts ago or so?
Although I thought this summer was a great one for movies.There might not have been many superb shows, but there were a hell of a lot of enjoyable ones (in no particular order):
617. CalGal - 9/29/1999 7:57:05 PM
Rick,
Also, have you tried calling the Blockbuster customer service number? If it's in their system, they can tell you which stores have the movie.
618. Rick Nowood - 9/29/1999 8:04:22 PM
I didn't know that. Valuable info.
South Park is #3.
Of the movies you list, I liked Phantom Menace the best. Eyes Wide Shut made the astonishing point that 1) women like sex and 2) rich people sometimes get sex just because they are rich. May have been big news when the novella was first published, but it ain't news in 1999.
13th Warrior was pretty good.
You don't happen to have that Blockbuster number handy, do you?
Rick Norwood
www.io.com/~norwoodr
619. CalGal - 9/29/1999 8:10:33 PM
Well, I didn't when I first posted but then I remembered it. 1-800-800-6767.
620. CalGal - 9/29/1999 8:12:18 PM
You liked Phantom Menace better than The Sixth Sense, Tarzan, Blair Witch Project, Bowfinger, and....hell, the only one of my list that I'd rank lower than TPM is Austin Powers.
621. Rick Nowood - 9/29/1999 8:37:09 PM
The Sixth Sense was good, but guessing the ending five minutes into the film kinda spoiled it. I found Blair Witch a totally bore. I didn't see Bowfinger becasue I loathe Steve Martin. And, no I liked Tarzan best. I meant I liked Phantom Menace best of your second list. But then, I saw it at a theater with a sound system rated #1 in the US (Abbingdon, VA) and that makes a big difference. In Tarzan and in Phantom Menace we see movies moving closer to opera. The words could be in German and you could still get everything the films have to offer.
Thanks for the phone number.
Rick Norwood
www.io.com/~norwoodr
622. Cellar Door - 9/29/1999 8:41:46 PM
"Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train"
"Les Amants du Pont-Neuf" ("Lovers on the Bridge")
"Mandadayo"
"Eyes Wide Shut"
"Jeanne and the Perfect Guy"
"Lola and Billy the Kid"
"God Said 'Ha!'"
"South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut"
"Dick"
so far.
623. pseudoerasmus - 9/29/1999 8:48:14 PM
I saw the Thirteenth Warrior today. I might have liked it better had it not included Antonio Banderas, and had the plot not contrived to make him learn Old Norse in about a matter of 45 seconds. I think the atmosphere of the movie would have been considerably improved, and exoticised, had we continued to hear the Norsemen jabber in Norse throughout the whole film. And couldn't we have learnt something about who those cannibals were? It was a linguistically and ethnologically unsatisfying film....
624. pseudoerasmus - 9/29/1999 8:50:00 PM
Mandadayo? Isn't the Kurosawa film from like 1995?
625. Rick Nowood - 9/29/1999 8:58:19 PM
Cellar Door
Can the virtue of Eyes Wide Shut, which I obviously missed, be put into words?
Pseudoerasmus
I enjoyed the language montage in 13th Warrior. Certainly it was clear that weeks passed (as in the breakfast table sceen in Citizen Kane).
Almost time for Voyager (EST). It's written by Ronald D. Moore, so it should be a good one. But after writing this week's and next week's, RDM left Voyager because of "creative differences" with Brannon Bragga, so Voyager will probably crash and burn.
Some of you might enjoy my column on sf tv at www.sfsite.com
Rick Norwood
www.io.com/~norwoodr
626. pseudoerasmus - 9/29/1999 9:12:20 PM
Weeks, seconds, what's the difference?
627. Rick Nowood - 9/29/1999 10:24:57 PM
The Voyager was, oh, maybe three stars. Intelligent, but a little prefunctory. A good writer not in the mood to knock himself out to produce a classic. Nice special effects, tho.
Goodnight.
Rick Norwood
www.io.com/~norwoodr
628. Cellar Door - 9/29/1999 10:56:10 PM
Yes it's the Kurosawa film. And it made its American debut on Turner Classic Movies last month.
"Can the virtue of Eyes Wide Shut, which I obviously missed, be put into words?"
Bundt cake.
629. 109109 - 9/30/1999 9:31:19 AM
The best films I have seen this year are
Cookie's Fortune
The Sixth Sense
Election
An Ideal Husband
Go
Four films I enjoyed very much
Notting Hill
Analyze This
The Blair Witch Project
The 13th Warrior
I have yet to see Dick, South Park, American Beauty, Bowfinger, Summer of Sam or Eyes Wide Shut.
Pseudo
On the 13th Warrior, I agree with two of your points, which were the only real flaws of the film. The first flaw - learning the language in such a short period of time - I chalked up to plot contrivance to make the story more accessible to the viewer, so I was not particularly bothered. The second point - that we learned absolutely zilch about the bear-headed cannibals - was more detrimental. When they became mere mortals, it became imperative that we figure out what they were about.
I disagree with you about Banderas, who played the Muslim fish in the Norse waters with a style and light comic appeal happily different than his normal brooding and intense Latin lover.
630. Cellar Door - 9/30/1999 9:53:06 AM
Don't you go to foreign-language films, Niner? If you only go to one this year, make it "Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train."
631. DocBrown - 9/30/1999 10:21:16 AM
Rick Nowood, Voyager crashed in its first episode, and it's been burning ever since. Decades of literature have proven that it is possible to write a meaningful, intelligent science fiction story, but today's television is little better than Lost in Space. It's kid's stuff.
Besides, I watch so little TV that I can't afford to waste time on something other than the Drew Carey Show. ;-)
632. Dantheman - 9/30/1999 10:22:38 AM
Cellar Door,
I didn't see that, but I strongly recommend Three Seasons, a Vietnamese film which I saw in May.
633. DocBrown - 9/30/1999 10:23:52 AM
109109, did you see 'October Sky?' It is a fine movie.
634. 109109 - 9/30/1999 10:39:36 AM
Doc
I did not. I've seen it on the shelves and I'll pick it up.
Celler
I don't see many foreign language films. I am hopelessly suburban, but I will look for your recommendation. What is it about?
635. Cellar Door - 9/30/1999 12:17:39 PM
"Those Who Love Me can Take the Train"is about the funeral of a Francis Bacon-like painter (Jean-Louis Trintignant) presided over by his identical twin brother. Ex-lovers of the deceased, and their boyfriends, and nieces, nephews and assorted blood and non-blood related fotsam and jetsom converge on a train taking them from Paris to Limoges, home of the world's largest cemetery. It's never made quite clear who is whom, but it doesn't matter. The film is an extended cry of love and loss and regeneration, and it's the best movie I've seen in 32 years.
636. Cellar Door - 9/30/1999 12:24:01 PM
The title comes from Franocis Reichenbach, the French documentery filmmaker who died of AIDS a few years ago. Like so many gay men of his generation, reichenbach planned his funeral. "But Francois," said his friend,screenwriter Daniele Thompson, "all your friends are in Paris." To which Reichenbach replied "Those who love me can take the train."
Patrice Chereau, the director and co-scriptwriter was the person responsible for the famous adaptation of the "Ring" cycle done in the early 80's and broadcast on PBS. He is a director of theater (I saw his production of Genet's "The Screens" in paris in '84) as well as opera. His films include "L'Homme Blesse" and "Queen Margot." He is also an actor and has appeared in such films as "Danton," "The Last of the Mohicans" and the current "Lucie Aubrac."
"Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train" is an extended cry of love, loss and regeneration. If you want to know what's going on in my soul 24/7 you can find it in this film.
And I don't think I'm alone in this.
637. 109109 - 9/30/1999 12:29:01 PM
I saw, and very much liked, "Queen Margot."
638. CalGal - 9/30/1999 12:38:51 PM
October Sky is on my list of movies to write a review on, because I really loved it. And not just cause of my hangdog hero, Chris Cooper.
It is very much like Hoosiers in tone. But a far more coherent and believable story. I've said this before but if you have kids, it's a must-see. Spawn loved it.
639. Cellar Door - 9/30/1999 5:43:54 PM
"Queen Margot" is a wild and wolley combination of Eisenstein's "Ivan the Terrible" and Rossellini's "La Prise de Pouvoir par Louis XIV" highlighted by an amazing performance from Virna Lisi (as Catherine de Medici) that I would never have dreamed she would have had in her.
I love the shot of her psuhing Daniel Auteil onto the altar ant the wedding ceremony, and the climactic sequences of Jean-Hughes Anglade oozing blood from the poison he's been give.
And that's not to mention Adjani taking off at the end with her lover's head in a box.
That's entertainment!
640. pseudoerasmus - 9/30/1999 6:28:06 PM
I too liked Queen Margot, and in particular Virna Lisi's performance. But the favourite scene of mine is where Auteuil's attendant barges into the scene of Auteil having sex with some woman, lifts her up from the bed, and promptly throws her out of the window. The woman was a poisoner, naturally.
641. pseudoerasmus - 9/30/1999 6:28:52 PM
But the movie stops loses steam about half way through.
642. pseudoerasmus - 9/30/1999 6:29:17 PM
Cellardweller just wants Vincent Pérez.
643. Cellar Door - 9/30/1999 6:32:09 PM
Hubba-Hubba!
BTW, in "Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train" Perez plays a transsexual.
644. CalGal - 9/30/1999 6:34:35 PM
Well, we'll just add that to the list of PseudoErasmus's Favorite Defenestration Scenes. I wish they'd start a category in the IMD.
645. Cellar Door - 9/30/1999 7:45:03 PM
LOL!
646. 109109 - 9/30/1999 10:36:01 PM
Lovers don't fare so well in these period pieces. I'm reminded of the lover of poor Partick McGoohan's weak won in Braveheart, tossed out the window by the cynical king. And, of course, the lady in waiting poisoned by her own corset in Elizabeth, or the boy lover of the lead in Shine, also post-coitally dispatched by knife.
647. 109109 - 9/30/1999 10:37:14 PM
weak won=weak son
648. CalGal - 9/30/1999 10:37:41 PM
Geoffrey Rush. "Weak won"? And yes, add Braveheart to the defenestration list.
649. 109109 - 9/30/1999 10:38:52 PM
That's his name.
650. CalGal - 9/30/1999 10:41:59 PM
My god, Niner. I just saw your best of list. Cookie's Fortune? Ideal Husband? Both were enjoyable, but nothing more. Notting Hill was better than both.
And only someone who has never seen The Sopranos could put Analyze This and Blair Witch Project on the same list. Analyze This was a decent comedy. ("I was Fredo? I don't think so." was the best line in the movie.)
And if you're going to build lists on those movies, then where the hell is The Matrix?
651. 109109 - 9/30/1999 10:46:27 PM
I said I enjoyed both films (Analyze This and Blair Witch). This is a true fact. I also enjoyed Notting Hill.
As for Cookie's Fortune and An Ideal Husband, I enjoyed them as well. And I thought they were better films. Granted, in what has been a decidedly weak year, the line between the five "best" and the mere enjoyable is a decidedly thin red one.
652. 109109 - 9/30/1999 10:47:36 PM
Election is still the best film of 1999, from my viewing, barely nudging out The Sixth Sense, but I have missed several possible contenders.
653. 109109 - 9/30/1999 10:50:11 PM
I didn't see The Matrix. It is now out on video. Should I?
654. CalGal - 9/30/1999 10:50:18 PM
Yes, but Blair Witch Project you gave very high marks to. I remember your review--as well as the howls with which you greeted my interpretation. (oh, okay. Scoffs. whatever.)
Analyze This is in a much lower league.
Cookie's Fortune was flawed by a terrible ending. Ideal Husband was graced only by a gorgeous Rupert Everett and had very little else to recommend it.
It has been a weak year for great movies. Still, I'd put The Matrix above most on your list. And of the ones you haven't seen, I'd add Tarzan, Iron Giant, and Bowfinger. All are far superior to most on your list. In fact, I'd say Phantom Menace, for all its many flaws, was better than CF or IH.
655. CalGal - 9/30/1999 10:53:17 PM
I haven't seen Election, and want to. Yes, see The Matrix. Spawn and I just rewatched it the other night. It is a great deal of fun. Everyone here really enjoyed it except Ace, I think.
656. 109109 - 9/30/1999 10:54:07 PM
Phantom Menace was not a serious picture, and it failed even as children's fare, with some unbearably awful parts. Connie Mack correctly derided the youg Darth gets loose in a spacehsip monstrosity. I have not seen Tarzan or Iron Giant. I am sure they are fine, but it is unlikely that any cartoon will make my list, unless it is South Park.
As I said, I thought Blair Witch was wonderful, more as an experience than as a film. And it was fine fodder for discussion. But, boiled down, it was more experiment and clever exercise than film.
657. CalGal - 9/30/1999 10:58:49 PM
Agreed that it was experiment--but it still as such was leaps and bounds and in an entire league better than any of the other movies on your seconds list.
Also agreed about the flaws of TPM--but my god, the laser fight alone--to say nothing of Liam Neeson's hair--makes it worthy of more notice than Ideal Husband.
I did not realize you had such prejudice against animated films. Nonetheless, Tarzan was superb.
658. 109109 - 9/30/1999 11:01:54 PM
Prejudice is a strong word. But I am handicapped by the ingrained feeling that I'm basically watching Bugs Bunny.
659. CalGal - 9/30/1999 11:05:12 PM
And that would be different from prejudice.....how?
660. 109109 - 9/30/1999 11:13:50 PM
I don't burn crosses outside Bugs' rabbit hole.
And on that note, I must rest . . . Thatttttts' all folks!
661. CalGal - 9/30/1999 11:15:00 PM
No, no. That's not how you define bigotry when you're in the Politics thread.
662. 109109 - 9/30/1999 11:16:32 PM
My bad.
I should have added a (g).
Nite.
663. CalGal - 9/30/1999 11:17:54 PM
Ha, ha. Idiot. Nite.
664. Cellar Door - 10/1/1999 10:05:23 AM
See "The Matrix"? Sure. Why not? It's pretty. It's vapid. The Columbine kiddies loved it. And Keanu has never been prettier.
I'm adding "Being John Malkovich" to my list.
665. CalGal - 10/1/1999 10:08:57 AM
Wrong about the Columbine kids. Still, two out of three ain't bad.
666. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 10:13:15 AM
The Columbine kiddies staged a mock version of their massacre on film months before The Matrix came out. I'll admit to first being convinced that the movie had in some way inspired their actions, but subsequent information convinced me otherwise.
Niner, watch The Matrix. It is the best American action film since Terminator 2, and maybe the best since Aliens. Videotape is a horrible way to see it, though. It might still be playing at a second-run theater. Or else buy the DVD, which supposedly rocks. Mine should be showing up in the mail soon.
667. RosettaSTONE - 10/1/1999 10:26:38 AM
Talk about affirmative action run amuck!
PBS, the tax-payers network that shares its mailing lists with the DNC, has just hired Gwen Ifill as the moderator of its piss-poor "Washington Week in Review."
It won't work, but who cares. No one watches it anyway. The only ones who will benefit from this decision are those who watch NBC.
According to the Post, she turned down the job last February because she was upset at the abrupt firing of her predecssor, Ken Bode, who balked at a PBS executive's suggestion for infusing the low-key program with "more attitude and opinion."
668. theDiva - 10/1/1999 10:38:50 AM
Okay, since we're weighing in on 'Matrix'....
Sweetie loved it and has seen it five times now. Since he's closer to you in terms of age and taste, Niner, than I am, you might want to go with his very strong recommendation of this picture.
I, OTOH, hated it. For the most part, I felt it was hackneyed and boring; a rehash of those topics most frequently covered during sophomore year marijuana-fueled late night bull sessions. The effects were cool; the only scene I can say I actively enjoyed was the one in the dojo. Keanu Reeves is cute and looks good in black.
669. PsychProf - 10/1/1999 10:45:17 AM
Diva and Niner...I enjoyed Matrix...my 26 yr old son, however, has seen the film more than 10 times...for some, it is a gas.
670. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 10:45:36 AM
Diva, I know what you mean about the Sophomore marijuana discussions. The "philosophy" of the film isn't nearly as interesting as the film thinks it is, and Fishburne's "what is reality?" pronouncements made me want to smack him. But the film is an action-lovers' paradise, built around a remarkably strong story structure.
This was the first time Reeves has impressed me in any of his action outings. The fact that he took several months of training to learn martial arts is a good part of it.
671. pseudoerasmus - 10/1/1999 10:47:59 AM
A "remarkably strong story structure"? The story was stupid and the plot incomprehensible.
672. pseudoerasmus - 10/1/1999 10:48:14 AM
And the action was less than bracing.
673. pseudoerasmus - 10/1/1999 10:48:35 AM
All in all, an idiotic film with no redeeming value.
674. theDiva - 10/1/1999 10:51:25 AM
Rask
Yes! That's what bugged me the most, I think....how very seriously this film took itself (anthropomorphism alert!) What utter pomposity.
And yes, Keanu's moves were impressive. Generally he does make a good action hero. Speed was tons of fun. Gracie and I watched the last hour of it on Fox the other night (we both covered our eyes for the really bloody stuff), squealing all the way.
675. theDiva - 10/1/1999 10:52:37 AM
PP
I'm not surprised your son saw it 10 times...he and my husband belong to the same generation.
676. Buck Mulligan - 10/1/1999 10:53:18 AM
I recently saw The Matrix at a $2 theater. It's visually quite fun to watch, but don't waste your time thinking about it too much. There is a place for movies like that. In particular, a $2 theater is such a place.
677. theDiva - 10/1/1999 10:55:25 AM
hahaha!
678. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 10:56:37 AM
Pseudo: I strongly disagree with your assessment of the story structure. I don't have time to get into this today, but I did post a review back on The Fray that makes my arguments. I think Cal has it at her site.
And I can't imagine how you can call the action "less than bracing". Are you a fan of Hong Kong action films?
679. theDiva - 10/1/1999 11:02:38 AM
Rask, this is a man who, whilst riding a steam engine train through some godforsaken mountain pass in Eastern Jibip, witnessed said train chased by wild-eyed, gun-toting, bandannaed maniacs shrieking in a language that even he couldn't understand.
He has lived the Indiana Jones thing. Keanu don't impress him none, I'll bet.
680. pseudoerasmus - 10/1/1999 12:35:45 PM
Diva: Some minor corrections. The incident was long after the mountain pass, it was in Western Jibipistan, there were no bandannas, I understood the language, and these folks were fucking grocers, subcon-hawker-style.
681. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 12:49:49 PM
But you did scare several of them away with your whip, and you shot a very large fellow when he menacingly displayed great prowess with a blade, correct?
682. ChristinO - 10/1/1999 12:56:36 PM
Maniacal, gun-toting grocers???
The images that come to mind are highly entertaining.
Several white aproned men on horse-back galloping madly after a speeding train waving rifles and screeching at the top of their lungs "NO!! You must buy MY oranges!!! I have the BEST oranges!!!" all the while PE reclines in a La-Z-Boy bolted to the top of the train sipping a martini and lecturing to an imaginary crowd.
683. CalGal - 10/1/1999 1:23:05 PM
I thought the story of The Matrix was weak. I strongly disagree that it was the best action film since Terminator--if Rask wants to go with "sci-fi action", then I still would have to give the nod to Men In Black.
But I loved The Matrix because it had serious attitude, great clothes, a kick-ass kung fu fight and two redeeming performances: Hugo Weaving and Carrie Ann Moss. Weaving's scene at the end with Fishburne is skin-crawlingly good. And the opening with Moss just rocks. In fact, any movie with an opening action scene like that--with a female to boot--gets a lot of slack.
Rask/Ace Matrix discussion.
684. CalGal - 10/1/1999 1:27:23 PM
Christin,
I think you misunderstood Pseudo. The bandits were fucking grocers.
This made it much easier for Pseudo to defeat them--he just snuck up behind them mid-coitus and stabbed them with the pencil he used to make notes in his Sanskrit grammar. The grocers were grateful.
685. Adrianne - 10/1/1999 1:29:36 PM
(looking up "subcon-hawker-style" in the Kama Sutra)
686. janjon - 10/1/1999 1:34:42 PM
Well, you always take your chances that you will only see the humdrum when you sign on to packaged tours.
687. theDiva - 10/1/1999 1:37:47 PM
688. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 1:46:10 PM I thought MIB was a bad film, and was barely an action film. 689. theDiva - 10/1/1999 1:50:44 PM er....my 687 was to PE's 680. timing, Diva, TIMING 690. pseudoerasmus - 10/1/1999 2:03:19 PM The story Diva refers to was posted in the old travel thread back in June. I've uploaded here. 691. pseudoerasmus - 10/1/1999 2:04:35 PM "The concept. The internal universe of The Matrix is fascinating." 692. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 2:10:01 PM Pseudo: no, not that concept. The stuff about fate and reality was dippy. I was referring to the idea of a virtual reality used to enslave humans, with rebels hacking into the system as part of their fight against the computers. Its a fertile ground for a story. 693. CalGal - 10/1/1999 2:10:28 PM Rask, 694. vonKreedon - 10/1/1999 2:15:32 PM There's going to be an extra scene included in the DVD release of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK coming up next year! 695. vonKreedon - 10/1/1999 2:16:16 PM INT: BESPIN GANTRY - MOMENTS LATER: 696. Cellar Door - 10/1/1999 2:33:27 PM LOL! 697. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 2:43:39 PM Cal: 698. janjon - 10/1/1999 2:58:55 PM The Day of the Jackel , original version, remains my all time favorite "action" movie. Tremedously suspenseful, even though you KNEW that DeGaulle wasn't killed. And, I call it an action movie in spite of its not having/because of the fact that it did not rely on gimmicky staged action or special effects. Simply wonderful. 699. CalGal - 10/1/1999 3:05:39 PM You know, I rented the original the other day and found it a tad slow. Well acted, though. 700. janjon - 10/1/1999 3:07:34 PM The slowness is part of the charm. All that anticipation. 701. CalGal - 10/1/1999 3:13:43 PM Rask, 702. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 3:14:17 PM Day of the Jackal is a lot of fun. While the pacing is slow, this somehow just serves to crank up the suspense. 703. CalGal - 10/1/1999 3:19:02 PM Hey, Three Kings is getting interesting reviews. Ebert gave it ****, but I've never forgiven him for Speed 2. NY Times liked it, as did Time. EW gave it a B. 704. janjon - 10/1/1999 3:24:21 PM So is Mark Wohlberg. Boogie Nights will soon be off his back. 705. CalGal - 10/1/1999 3:30:29 PM Yes, I should have mentioned that. Wahlberg is doing well, too. Although I thought he was quite good in Boogie Nights--but then I liked the movie a great deal. 706. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 3:34:09 PM Speed better than The Matrix? That is just plain nuts. 707. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 3:35:29 PM Boogie Nights is not on Marky Mark's back, its under his feet. Love it or hate it, it is the source of his current career. 708. janjon - 10/1/1999 3:35:41 PM The movie has a scene in which you get to see in very graphic detail what happens to a human body when a bullet enters it. Although I find this hard to believe, the director says that this scene was shot by using a cadaver. 709. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 3:37:00 PM I might acknowledge The Fugitive as a better action film if it weren't for the "extraneous character" villain, and that horrible, horrible ending. 710. Dantheman - 10/1/1999 3:40:09 PM Boogie Nights ranks as the most overrated movie of the decade in my opinion. The first 1/3 of the movie (the porn scenes) were dull and the last 2/3 of the movie was a race to see which character could be the most pathetic. The acting was mediocre at best (other than Macy) and the story could have lost at least 45 minutes without damaging what passed for a plot. Other than that, I loved it. 711. CalGal - 10/1/1999 3:45:35 PM Rask, 712. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 3:59:28 PM The only scene that I really liked in Boogie Nights is the cocaine robbery scene, with the firecrackers constantly going off. The rest of the film could have been flushed, except for any scene which featured a naked Rollergirl. I do have a thing for innocent-looking blondes. 713. CalGal - 10/1/1999 4:02:28 PM Ha, ha. That's the scene I hate. Over the top, extended, bleah. 714. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 4:02:59 PM I guess it was also mildly interesting as a documentary of the porn industry, which I didn't know that much about. 715. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 4:09:55 PM I somehow think that this question is one that Niner or Ace will know the answer to. 716. CalGal - 10/1/1999 4:15:37 PM Rask, 717. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 4:26:26 PM No, communities can ban sale and distribution of hard core porn if they want to, as I understand it. 718. harper - 10/1/1999 5:46:53 PM Rask: 719. CalGal - 10/1/1999 5:50:40 PM No, communities can ban sale and distribution of hard core porn if 720. marshame - 10/1/1999 6:00:11 PM DanTM 721. harper - 10/1/1999 6:03:43 PM marshame: 722. KuligintheHooligan - 10/1/1999 6:12:55 PM My wife and I got a babysitter tonight and saw "Entrapment" at the theatre. Yes, movies DO arrive her a bit late! 723. Raskolnikov - 10/1/1999 6:14:04 PM Cal: "And I don't think freedom of expression applies when taking a life, does it?" 724. harper - 10/1/1999 6:17:29 PM Rask: 725. CalGal - 10/1/1999 6:41:43 PM Freedom of expression does not give you permission to break the law by either killing someone any more than it can give you permission to screw someone for money. 726. cigarlaw - 10/1/1999 8:05:35 PM cal, if someone consents JUST ABOUT aNYTHING SHORT OF DEATH IS LEGAL 727. dusty - 10/1/1999 8:26:57 PM cigarlaw 728. cigarlaw - 10/1/1999 9:12:10 PM other than sex for hire, what isn't? 729. EricCartman - 10/2/1999 3:31:10 AM SF Chronicle also gave "Three Kings" its highest rating. Surprised me, because it looked pretty generic from the trailer, and a bullshit hip-hop remake of "For What It's Worth" can only mean trouble, imo. But the three leads are generally very good in their other projects, so I may have to give it a shot after all. 730. CalGal - 10/2/1999 3:40:30 AM Hey! Good to see you. 731. EricCartman - 10/2/1999 3:54:50 AM Yeah, Jane was the hustler, Todd. I didn't see the shark movie yet, maybe on pay-per-view. I saw him in the cast credits for "The Thin Red Line", but I have no idea who he was. By the end of that piece of crap, I was so demoralized I didn't fucking care. Probably he had some meditative soliloquy about taking a dump. (But hey, Cart, how do you really feel?) 732. Cellar Door - 10/2/1999 10:49:52 AM Jane was also in the unspeakably awful "The Velocity of Gary." 733. CalGal - 10/2/1999 2:05:23 PM Oh, I agree. In fact, every commercial enterprise you see on the Web can pretty much thank porn for its existence. 734. EricCartman - 10/3/1999 4:01:17 AM Cellar: 735. Cellar Door - 10/3/1999 10:56:54 AM Eric I have every reason to believe you could give La Spacey a run for his money. 736. EricCartman - 10/3/1999 6:42:51 PM Thanks Cellar! You know, as much fun as I have from time to time at Spacey's expense, I do think he's a talented guy, and a fine actor. Recently Comedy Central re-ran the Saturday Night Live that was hosted by Spacey, and he is also a very good impressionist, doing credible spoofs of Chris Walken, Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon auditioning for "Star Wars". His Walken is at least as funny as Alec Baldwin's Brando. 737. 109109 - 10/3/1999 9:50:41 PM Fourth in a series 738. CalGal - 10/3/1999 9:59:17 PM I quite enjoyed Fraser in that movie, and Walken had some good moments. 739. T. Tallis - 10/3/1999 10:18:08 PM Weighing in on "American Beauty", while it's not at all "great" in any sense of the word, it's certainly well above par, and at points surprisingly so. Taken at a purely base level, it could be viewed as the mainstream, glossy sit-com version of last year's "Happiness" (though "Beauty" is undoubtedly the superior picture), and its celebration of the underdog 'everyman', its self-satisfied nods towards cheeky subversion and its non-stop professionalism make it not at all surprising that most critics are falling over themselves in adulatory bliss. Set in an unspecified generic suburb (a place where fast-food outlets proudly advertise "Free Napkins!"), it chronicles the disintegration of a marriage, and the effects this crisis has on the family in question's orbiting particulars (specifically, The Folks Next Door). From the opening shot and the first lines of dialogue, it's apparent that the filmmakers are trying perhaps a little too hard to attract attention; indeed, most of the film's most glaring problems are a result of Directoral Debut Featuritis (why, for instance, do Kevin Spacey's sexual fantasies seem more like some kind of Jean Genet fever-dream than those of a whitebread male in the throes of a boy-howdy midlife crisis?), though strangely in its final act, what with all the convoluted plot machinations that seem more like they've been cribbed directly from "Three's Company" reruns than a result of any genuine inspiration, it becomes clear that it really hasn't been trying hard enough...it eventually becomes so divorced from consensual reality that its satirical intent is nullified. 740. T. Tallis - 10/3/1999 10:19:35 PM Still, though, there's an awful lot here to recommend, and recommend it I would. Kevin Spacey is becoming a legitimate National Treasure, and his performance here provides ample evidence (the tiny, flickering smirks that cross his character's face each time he scores a petty, minor triumph are priceless). Chris Cooper (sporting an award-worthy haircut) is outstanding, despite the fact that his character is a zero, a walking cliche (anyone capable of adding single-digits will anticipate his final plot "twist"). And, amazingly enough, Annette Benning is phenomenal, somehow managing to add elements of aching sympathy to what was obviously written as a one-note despicable character (in fact, every actor involved with the production, excepting Peter Gallagher whose role is too thankless to bother with, manages this - every character being essentially despicable - but Benning's tightrope act constantly straddles the line between revulsion and empathy, and ends up stealing the show). All the tech-specs here in addition to the performances are top-notch; the composition and photography are amazing (the camera is constantly looking through things...viewfinders, television screens, windows, sheets of rain &c.), there's the best lighting on display since "Barfly", and the score is always appropriate, morphing from sensitive motifs to Harry Partch-like polyphony at precisely the right moments. 741. T. Tallis - 10/3/1999 10:19:48 PM Director Sam Mendes' theatre background is apparent, (he seems most at home during the picture's perfectly framed, dialogue-based interior sequences), and for much of the rest of the film he shows a clean, streamlined and efficient cinematic talent. But the alternately tragic/funny material requires more discipline than he seems ready to provide; a more seasoned director would have done without the incongruous and jarring fantasy-sequences; would have been content to merely show us, in one pivotal scene, two characters watching videotape of a trashbag dancing in the wind without being compelled to add the turgid, explanatory dialogue (let alone repeat it later on in the film); wouldn't have felt the need to literally show us Spacey's life passing before his eyes upon his demise (not a "spoiler", his passing is divulged in the previously noted self-conscious opening)...much of the film's strength is in its details, and a more consistent application of visual shorthand would have benefitted the material greatly. There's so much here that's instantly recognizable and relatable to American viewers that its flights into textbook surrealism and polemics simply fizzle. 742. Cellar Door - 10/3/1999 10:44:57 PM why, for instance, do Kevin Spacey's sexual fantasies seem more like some kind of Jean Genet fever-dream than those of a whitebread male in the throes of a boy-howdy midlife crisis? 743. CalGal - 10/3/1999 10:50:58 PM Oh, stop being pissy. He's the same talent he was before he said he wasn't gay, whether you like it or not. 744. T. Tallis - 10/3/1999 10:59:32 PM Cellar Door: 745. Cellar Door - 10/4/1999 12:54:11 AM I like him best in "The Ref" where he plays opposite the incomparable Judy Davis. 746. CalGal - 10/4/1999 12:55:21 AM Oh, he was wonderful in The Ref. 747. EricCartman - 10/4/1999 1:06:16 AM "The Ref" rocks. Still my favorite Christmas movie. 748. CalGal - 10/4/1999 1:46:59 AM I tell you, The Practice is getting far too predictable. I saw both the supposed shockers, with 15 minutes left to go. 749. EricCartman - 10/4/1999 2:16:51 AM Kelley's saving his best stuff for Ally. You know, I hear he's some kind of wunderkind or something. Hopefully someday things will fall into place for him. 750. CalGal - 10/4/1999 2:19:30 AM Bleah. The Practice is the only one of his shows I've ever been able to tolerate. Although most of his shows are well-acted, they always have ludicrous premises and characters that take unbelievable actions. Picket Fences, Ally McBeal, and so on. Ally McBeal herself is the most nauseating little shit on the airwaves. 751. EricCartman - 10/4/1999 2:33:01 AM Picket Fences was OK, as in not that good, but not that bad. As for Ally McBeal, I once almost made it 10 minutes through an episode. Excruciatingly stupid and silly, like reading the diary of a 13-year-old girl would probably be. 752. CalGal - 10/4/1999 6:09:15 AM Three Kings: 753. CalGal - 10/4/1999 6:10:45 AM Three Kings has no such weak points. It is smart, funny, gruesome, painful, political, subtle, and--if that's not enough--educational. I don't think there was a single moment in the movie that isn't utterly believable. Every scene is multi-layered; there are no jarring tone shifts. The screenplay is certainly one of the finest this year. 754. CalGal - 10/4/1999 6:12:04 AM There are no villains--unless you want to call US policy the bad guy, and you won't get too much argument from me on that one. The modern U.S. Army gets one of its best portrayals in years--the grunts are well-trained and cool under fire, despite their inexperience. The officers are media savvy, but not stupid and certainly educated and competent. The media itself doesn't even come off too badly. 755. CalGal - 10/4/1999 6:16:13 AM Clooney turns in one of those performances that looks easy until you realize how few actors there are that can hold down the center of a movie this complicated. Wahlberg is one of the sweetest, most genuine presences in the movies today. Ice Cube has always been the most underrated of the rap actors; he has a solid strength that works well. Cliff Curtis (a New Zealander) turns in a damn near perfect performance as the nominal leader of the Iraqi village; the guy who plays the Iraqi interrogator is also superb. 756. 109109 - 10/4/1999 9:03:07 AM The Corruptor 757. 109109 - 10/4/1999 9:04:34 AM "we here" = "we hear" 758. Raskolnikov - 10/4/1999 10:38:14 AM Cal: Three Kings did decent business this weekend: 16 million or so. Not a blockbuster, but with good reviews and word of mouth, it ought to hold up well in what is usually a weak month (Fight Club and Bringing Out the Dead are the only real competition for the next 4 weeks). 759. Dantheman - 10/4/1999 11:57:34 AM I don't recall any discussion of Jakob the Liar here, but if it was, please point me to it. I saw it over the weekend and was pleasantly surprised. Its tone is not the slapstick humor of Life is Beautiful and one does not need to suspend disbelief as much. Indded, the tone is closer to Schindler's List. It raises significant philosophical questions on the benefit of lies and the importance of hope, even if I don't necessarily agree with the answers given. Most surprisingly, Robin Williams played a character who was more than just a repressed adolescent, as in Patch Adams or Jumanji. 760. Dantheman - 10/4/1999 12:06:26 PM sorry -- Indded = Indeed 761. JudithAtHome - 10/4/1999 12:18:41 PM Eric: re: 751 762. ChristinO - 10/4/1999 12:21:34 PM Cal, 763. Cellar Door - 10/4/1999 5:28:09 PM "Spanking the Monkey" was interesting and "Flirting With Disaster" was flat-out hilarious. That's why I find it so odd to see Russell turning to a "war" epic starring three people I wouldn't go to see in a movie if you paid me. 764. EricCartman - 10/5/1999 2:21:49 AM Judith: 765. Uzmakk - 10/5/1999 8:31:30 AM Saw Three Kings. Both the misus and I liked it. Highly recommended. 766. JudithAtHome - 10/5/1999 9:59:31 AM Eric: 767. glendajean - 10/5/1999 5:22:03 PM I saw "Edge of Seventeen" this weekend, a coming out story of a gay teenager in Sandusky, Ohio, 1984. Sort of lame. Lea Delia wasn't very good -- except for one moment where she does a jazz turn. Made me realize that she should make an album. 768. CalGal - 10/5/1999 5:35:55 PM Small roles????!!! My heavens, Gig Young is second male lead, and Blondell has one of her biggest parts since the 30s. 769. janjon - 10/5/1999 5:40:52 PM Desk Set verges on becoming impossibly dated much of the time, but somehow it comes through. Mostly because of the Tracy/Hepburn magic which comes through in their scenes together. It is especially good in the scenes set in her apartment. 770. CalGal - 10/5/1999 6:13:49 PM Dated? On the contrary. The one plot device in the movie hasn't aged at all (we still do a great deal to avoid insider trading). 771. Cellar Door - 10/5/1999 6:49:45 PM I was about say "Adam's Rib" is a masterpiece. And it hasn't date one bit. I had the pleasure of introducing a screening of it at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art last month (as part of the Cukor series) and sang (a cappella) "Farewell Amanda" and it's earlier version "So Long, Samoa." 772. CalGal - 10/5/1999 6:52:23 PM Yes, I should dig up your review of it. 773. glendajean - 10/5/1999 9:27:39 PM I watched "Miller's Crossing" tonight. I think I missed it when it came out because someone said it was quite violent. Perhaps for the year it was filmed, but the violence was rather tame. 774. cartmhan - 10/5/1999 9:42:06 PM Going to get that 500 channel dish on Friday. However, the startup amount of channels for the Echostar 500 is about 300 right now. Rumor is that BBC's allotment of ten channels will be offered, as will MTV Networks's 20 channels. 775. glendajean - 10/5/1999 10:35:06 PM "Moonstruck." That was the opera flick with Cher. Too fine a movie to forget it's title. 776. Raskolnikov - 10/5/1999 11:25:11 PM Glenda: glad you liked Miller's Crossing. Yes, I was going to sponsor it and The Third Man for Frayfest, but work intervened. The two films are two of my all time favorite movies, and Miller's Crossing is too often neglected. It was overshadowed in 1990 by Goodfellas, but I think that Miller's Crossing is the better film. 777. Raskolnikov - 10/5/1999 11:27:21 PM 500 channel dish? Tell me more? Any extra movie channels, or do you just get 50 channels of the Gold Network? 778. proudnerd - 10/5/1999 11:53:14 PM Miller's Crossing IS a much better film than Goodfellas. I haven't seen it since it first came out, but I do somewhat remember the vivid and visually stunning camera work by Sonnenfeld. Byrne was brilliant as the damaged survivor of gang conflicts. 779. Raskolnikov - 10/5/1999 11:57:48 PM Fink needs to be viewed several times before you even have a chance of really appreciating it. You still might hate the film (a lot of people do), but there is too much going on to evaluate properly after one viewing. I find it fun to analyze, and occasionally its hilarious. 780. EricCartman - 10/6/1999 12:49:41 AM Judith (#766): 781. CalGal - 10/6/1999 12:53:31 AM I can't stand Cage in his incipient psycho roles--and yet I still love Raising Arizona. My favorite scene, however, is the Goodman and other guy scene after they've robbed the store and are halfway down the road--and realize they've forgotten something. 782. proudnerd - 10/6/1999 1:09:07 AM I saw The Big Lebowski recently (ok, I am behind the curve). It started out well by establishing the irreverent charecter of the dude, but fizzled out later when the Cohens ran out of weird things to happen to the dude. The dream sequence was nauseating and despite the clever scenes, it seems they couldn't hold the film together. Julianne Moore's flaccid Maude didn't help either. Jeff Bridge's apt performance as the dude was only solace I got from this wasteful fortuitous encounter with my VCR. 783. EricCartman - 10/6/1999 1:26:49 AM Cal: 784. proudnerd - 10/6/1999 1:31:29 AM Cage is probably one of the most overrated actors in Hollywood. Deride me if you like, but Leaving Las Vegas completely lacked anything of cinematic importance. Constipation, not vacuous alcoholic life, seemed to be his problem throughout the movie. 785. PsychProf - 10/6/1999 9:00:40 AM Cal, Rask, Cellar,and other resident movieheads and experts...last night as I surfed from baseball to the Godfather Saga on USA, I noticed scenes in the Godfather I and II films that are new to me...are there "unedited versions"? 786. millhead - 10/6/1999 9:29:44 AM Come on...The Big Lewbowski was hilarious. It was better the second and third time I saw it. Of course, it helps to view the film while participating in the same antics as Bridges. Mainly drinking White Russians (with Kettle One vodka) and blowing a big doobie. 787. Cellar Door - 10/6/1999 9:58:43 AM "The Godfather Saga" is a variant of I and II with a few scenes (bits actually) that weren't in either film as originally released. Some future Coppola scholar will no doubt be awarded a grant in the future to figure out exactly what's what.it's a good film no matter how you slice it -- though I persoanlly prefer II to I. 788. JudithAtHome - 10/6/1999 10:43:16 AM cartmhan: 789. cartmhan - 10/6/1999 10:20:33 PM The 500 channel dish is what those who subscribe to Dish Network are going to be forced to get if they want new channels added. Already 100 more channels are avalable on Dish...but the catch is that you have to upgrade to the newer model. 790. cartmhan - 10/6/1999 10:39:39 PM When the newer model is installed Friday, I will let all know here what channels are available. If, however, there are channels such as "The All Turnip Channel", "The Richard Simmons Channel" and "The JCPenny Channel" I will let you know that too. Now...here is a shocker: one of the "if" channels does exist. 791. ConnieMack - 10/7/1999 12:45:07 AM I agree about the Big Lebowski, generally. What about Buscemi? The trilogy of Goodman, Bridges and Buscemi were ALLways good. I'd never seen him ... I guess stretch by receding before. We've basically all known a person like that... and the person like Goodman's character (sorry, it's been so long I forget the character's names) who constantly hits them verbally. 792. CalGal - 10/7/1999 1:02:04 AM I just watched West Wing--some of you mentioned it in here, yes? I'm pretty sure that's why I watched it. Anyway, very good show. 793. proudnerd - 10/7/1999 1:05:20 AM I like Buscemi. I would particularly recommend Trees Lounge and Living in Oblivion. (Of course most people would have seen Fargo where he was superb as usual). 794. ConnieMack - 10/7/1999 1:12:17 AM Yes, Buscemi was letter-P in Fargo, but also formulaic... for him. He was just so Different in The Big L. 795. ConnieMack - 10/7/1999 1:21:38 AM Going back a bit, I adore Raising Arizona. And I saw it After I viewed Blood Simple, a delicious nasty little first film by the Bros Cohen. Also am quite fond of Miller's Crossing. It's different - and in its way, better - than GoodFellas. Though I gotta admit it was a tossup on the GF film - what made it, that is. I thought when I walked out it was heh-heh-heh-heh what'shisname and Bracco. (I never can remember his name, but he was perfect in Demme's flick, Something Wild, too.) Then I came to realize the soundtrack had a Lot to do with it. 796. CalGal - 10/7/1999 1:22:37 AM John Spencer is one of those guys who just always sounds good--the clipped speech and animated delivery. I like watching him. 797. ConnieMack - 10/7/1999 1:22:45 AM (she's a chatty little thing when she manages to make it online.) 798. CalGal - 10/7/1999 1:25:22 AM Ray Liotta. Another guy whose delivery is a hell of a lot of fun. 799. ConnieMack - 10/7/1999 1:28:43 AM That's it - Ray Ray Ray Ray. Why can I not remember Ray? 800. ConnieMack - 10/7/1999 1:29:31 AM btw, CalGal - you see L&O? 801. CalGal - 10/7/1999 1:36:15 AM Liotta doesn't make that many movies, so if he makes a bad one it sticks out. 802. EricCartman - 10/7/1999 1:57:09 AM Cal: 803. CalGal - 10/7/1999 2:04:01 AM The new guy is hot, but he does some weird shit with his hands, I tell you. 804. EricCartman - 10/7/1999 2:22:15 AM Cal: 805. CalGal - 10/7/1999 2:52:19 AM Oh, I slept through last week's episode--I didn't sleep Tuesday night at all, and Wednesday disappeared on me. I heard it's pretty good. 806. EricCartman - 10/7/1999 3:02:32 AM Last week's L&O was pretty good, but the end was ridiculous, and completely unrealistic. Which tends to ruin the previous 55 minutes. If you recall the "bounty hunter" episode from last season, you know what I mean. 807. CalGal - 10/7/1999 3:07:04 AM Special Victims Unit--the L&O show on Monday. 808. EricCartman - 10/7/1999 3:23:25 AM I haven't yet seen SVU, no, though Meloni is pretty good on "Oz". Any other night but Monday, and I might catch it, but not so far. 809. CalGal - 10/7/1999 3:29:56 AM Well, judges do that crap. Although they had the judge be the star the week before, so maybe they couldn't have them all be sensible. 810. EricCartman - 10/7/1999 3:49:58 AM Eh, it seemed like that sort of thing happened several times last season. Judges do, of course, make dumb decisions from time to time, but some of these are pretty odd. I'm not ready to write off L&O yet or anything. Certainly it's still head and shoulders above most everything else on network TV. I'll reserve further opinions until I see tonight's ep tomorrow. 811. glendajean - 10/7/1999 12:33:54 PM I caught the last half of West Wing. IRL, they only wish that the west wing was that spacious. It's cramped, with tiny halls. 812. glendajean - 10/7/1999 12:35:13 PM musy = mushy 813. CalGal - 10/7/1999 12:43:26 PM Oh, I wasn't really rating it on verisimilitude. I would say that all reputable entertainment these days works hard to capture a flavor of reality, but since this is the first serious attempt to portray politics on TV, my expectations weren't that high. 814. 109109 - 10/7/1999 12:46:37 PM I have watched half a West Wing and it most resembles The Practice. Very gauzy, bearing little resemblance to reality, overly hip, and counfoundingly watchable. 815. JudithAtHome - 10/7/1999 12:48:44 PM I fell asleep 10 minutes into L&O, not because of the show but due to some killer sinus meds. 816. ElliottRW - 10/7/1999 12:49:39 PM I propose a game. Let's list our best/worst new TV shows. Here's mine. 817. 109109 - 10/7/1999 12:51:48 PM Judith 818. glendajean - 10/7/1999 12:54:13 PM "what person working for the POTUS is going to put himself at risk of scandal by going back to the hooker he slept with accidently?" 819. JudithAtHome - 10/7/1999 12:55:26 PM Elliot: 820. JudithAtHome - 10/7/1999 12:57:25 PM Okay, guys...point taken. But don't you think they'd be less likely to do so NOW....surely lessons have been learned? On the other hand, look at Newt! 821. glendajean - 10/7/1999 12:57:26 PM 109109 -- Who is the hooker? The woman Morris paid to suck his toes in the Jefferson Hotel, or Clinton who paid Morris to sneak back into his campaign, or the networks who pay Morris to give sage advice or Trent Lott who paid Morris.... 822. CalGal - 10/7/1999 1:00:02 PM Judith, 823. glendajean - 10/7/1999 1:00:30 PM Judith -- Newtie is the Civilizer (according to his own self description). 824. ElliottRW - 10/7/1999 1:03:22 PM JudithAtHome 825. cartmhan - 10/7/1999 3:34:46 PM Got my appointment confirmed for the installation of the Dish500..but it will be a "all I can wait" time for me. Kind of reminds me of the cable company somewhat. 826. cartmhan - 10/7/1999 3:37:56 PM I did get a "Please Come Back" invitation from my former cable company. Would I come back??? I have one word for ya: NO. In my opinion, cable is good for one thing: the Internet...not television. 827. TabouliJones - 10/7/1999 10:44:42 PM I saw Three Kings tonight. It is entirely convoluted, and I say that as the highest of praise. Three Kings has a compelling, visceral, and thoroughly confusing punch from moment A -- a bleached out, disorienting, panorama shot of a foot print strewn desert -- to moment Z -- a rather tidy denouement that is all the more compelling and discombobulating for all of its somehow wrong but equally right and uplifting tidiness. Think Saving Private Ryan without the tacky bookends and earnest stabs at profundity. Succinctly put, Three Kings is geared to perplex and as such it is an appropriate -- highly compelling --commentary on war, in general, and the aporia that is modern warfare, in particular. It isn't a perfect movie, but it is definitely damn good. 828. CalGal - 10/7/1999 11:09:00 PM TJ--you see my review? I agree with you. Lovely way to describe the ending, btw. 829. TabouliJones - 10/7/1999 11:22:51 PM 830. TabouliJones - 10/7/1999 11:25:01 PM 831. CalGal - 10/7/1999 11:39:04 PM TJ, 832. TabouliJones - 10/7/1999 11:45:23 PM 833. TabouliJones - 10/7/1999 11:46:41 PM 834. cartmhan - 10/7/1999 11:55:13 PM Heard a shocker: Donald Trump wants Oprah Winfrey as his VP candidate. I guess that now means no more visits for Oprah at the White House anymore. I suppose deep in Bill Clinton's soul..he wouls love for Warren Beatty to be a candidate. Afterall...Warren had a reputation as a ladies man throughout the years before he met Annette. 835. CalGal - 10/7/1999 11:57:08 PM Oh, and I agree about Clooney in that scene. Spoiler: Like FUCK! We were almost there, dammit! The hard part was over, and now things were falling apart! 836. Cellar Door - 10/7/1999 11:58:09 PM Bill Clinton would love to be Warren Beatty, PERIOD. 837. TabouliJones - 10/8/1999 12:00:25 AM 838. TabouliJones - 10/8/1999 12:06:32 AM 839. CalGal - 10/8/1999 12:10:17 AM TJ, 840. TabouliJones - 10/8/1999 12:16:19 AM 841. CalGal - 10/8/1999 12:27:21 AM Well, the Mann movie has that saving grace of The Sound of Music, Christopher Plummer. I am worried that it will be too earnest. But the cast gives me hope. 842. TabouliJones - 10/8/1999 12:30:32 AM 843. pseudoerasmus - 10/8/1999 12:42:57 AM Heat? Is that the Pacino-and-DeNiro combo? TabouliJones thought that movie had brains? I thought it was a kind of 1970s melodrama for middle-aged people --no gratuitous violence, but lots of basically preposterous & superficial characterisation. 844. CalGal - 10/8/1999 12:48:36 AM If you say "TabouliJones thought the movie had brains", does that mean you are talking to me? Am I supposed to answer for him? 845. TabouliJones - 10/8/1999 12:52:31 AM 846. TabouliJones - 10/8/1999 12:55:09 AM 847. EricCartman - 10/8/1999 1:20:24 AM I dunno about "Manhunter". There are some very good scenes and shots in it, but the end scene is silly -- giant albino tries to sbuff blind girl to the tune of "In-a-Gadda-da-Vida". Hilarious. I was underwhelmed by most of the acting as well -- Petersen looks like he took a few tips from Shatner. 848. Cellar Door - 10/8/1999 10:09:15 AM 849. 109109 - 10/8/1999 10:40:28 AM I liked Manhunter, though I concur with Cart's view of the end. Regardless, the scene of the flaming wheelchair is priceless. 850. butterfieldswire - 10/8/1999 11:08:50 AM I would nominate Heat as the worst movie ever made, at least the worst movie of the nineties. The only enjoyment in Heat was amalgamating all the cop and robber cliche's: its about a guy, a regular guy, whos a thief because hes good at being a thief, he's smart and he'd love to settle down and go straight because he promised his girl who loves him, but he'd never make it in the straight world, because he could never be a flunky to the man, besides, he can't live without the juice, you know, the action, plus being a thief is what he does, its who he is, and he has a responsibility toward his crew, especially the black guy who has always been loyal if not a particullarly fully realized character and the fair-haired boy who reminds him of himself when he was young who's girlfriend wants him to leave the game but he can't because he's in a jam because he likes to gamble, but now he's up against a cop, a new cop, not like these other stupid flatfeet, but a smart cop, a cop who thinks like a thief, a cop who can prove he's tough by going into a bar frequented solely by black men and winning a verbal standoff, a cop who's such a rising star in "the department" that he's assigned to take down the thief's crew and simultaneously track a serial killer who, though part of the thief's crew, can only be identified with the most advanced psychological profiling though he will ultimately be caught and gunned down by the wildest of coincidences, a cop who's girlfriend loves him but realizes he's married to the department, a cop who can cynically discuss the game of cops versus robbers in a chance encounter, but is of course so devoted to law and order that he will have to gun down the thief who is only trying to escape at The End. 851. 109109 - 10/8/1999 11:09:52 AM Ha ha ha ha. Good stuff. 852. butterfieldswire - 10/8/1999 11:13:39 AM Since, we only have a few months, what's the best movie of the 90's? I say "Groundhog Day," a near perfect movie (if they had found a chick with more personality than a wet dishrag or, say, Andie MacDowell it would have been perfect) in a much loved but virtually impossible category: intelligent romantic comedy. 853. theDiva - 10/8/1999 11:14:48 AM Please God, just don't let anyone say 'The English Patient'. Please. 854. Dantheman - 10/8/1999 11:15:15 AM butterfieldswire, 855. 109109 - 10/8/1999 11:17:19 AM After I saw the English Patient, I had to watch a lot of porn to rid me of the film. 856. theDiva - 10/8/1999 11:18:15 AM I won't even venture to guess. I am quite partial to 'Big Night', though. 857. 109109 - 10/8/1999 11:18:52 AM Big Night was the 1990s film most likely to make me feel bloated. 858. theDiva - 10/8/1999 11:20:59 AM Honey, you need to get out more. That meal was about standard for any Italian family gathering. 859. butterfieldswire - 10/8/1999 11:21:53 AM 109109 - Did you see the movie in a theater. If your watching at home on video, its all la-di-da, "Oh well, the first scene was cool, and I'll just read the latest Penthouse Letters until its through." But if your actually stuck in Budget Cinema seats, its a whole nuther deal. In fact, there is no reason that any movie should last over 100 minutes. But in Heat, at the 200 minute mark, when I was calculating the time it would take to resolve all of the cliche'd sub-plots AND THEN Pacino's step-daughter tries to kill herself! It was really too much for any human to bear. 860. theDiva - 10/8/1999 11:23:41 AM Heat. Did I see that? 861. 109109 - 10/8/1999 11:26:33 AM I saw Heat in a theater and a confidence - I was looking forward to it. It was endless, I believe I napped, but I continue to stand by my one accolade -after being startled awake, the wild shooting spree through downtown LA, extended for approximately 15 minutes, was impressive. 862. butterfieldswire - 10/8/1999 11:29:47 AM Actually, thats what I meant, the truck ramming scene rocked. But then great truck ramming scene is probably redundant. 863. butterfieldswire - 10/8/1999 11:31:44 AM Speaking of car chases, did anyone see "The Peacemaker." I thought the Prague car chase in that was the best one I've seen in a long time. 864. 109109 - 10/8/1999 11:37:07 AM I have not seen it, but I suggest "Ronin" for an excellent car chase scene. 865. stinky - 10/8/1999 11:40:44 AM > After I saw the English Patient, I had to watch a lot of porn to rid > me of the film. 866. 109109 - 10/8/1999 11:47:22 AM Goodfellas was 1990. 867. CalGal - 10/8/1999 12:20:12 PM Yeah, the bank robbery scene was impressive. Does anyone but me remember the real life incident? 868. Raskolnikov - 10/8/1999 4:22:01 PM Best Films of the Nineties, off the top of my head... 869. JudithAtHome - 10/8/1999 4:24:13 PM Rask: 870. Raskolnikov - 10/8/1999 4:29:51 PM Menace has stuck with me. I haven't seen it since it came out in 1993, but it made a hell of an impression at the time, and I think back on it often. 871. JudithAtHome - 10/8/1999 4:34:27 PM ooohhh, Dark City! Yes! 872. Cellar Door - 10/8/1999 8:14:11 PM Best Pictures of the 90's: 873. cartmhan - 10/9/1999 12:29:34 AM The new Dish/Echostar 500 dish is installed, but there will be delays in getting the new channels. I have been told that a whole slew of International channels will be added; as will more HBO, Pay Per View, and music channels. The music audio channels does have an upgrade...which I have already seen (this is the first noticible effect of the upgrade). The new upgrade is that every song played will be identfied by artist, record label, CD, etc. There will be a Top 150 offered by Dish Network soon...but only to those who get the new 500 upgrade. 874. Cellar Door - 10/9/1999 12:23:52 PM Oh, and one more for the 90's: "My Own Private Idaho" 875. JudithAtHome - 10/9/1999 1:23:46 PM We're off to see American Beauty this afternoon; can't wait! 876. Raskolnikov - 10/9/1999 1:53:00 PM wait. 877. JudithAtHome - 10/9/1999 2:23:36 PM Oh Rask! Don't tell me that! I just love Spacey, with his glittery little eyes and the way he shifts them around and I like his cruel mouth with that sarcastic little twitch that comes oh so close to a smirk...I know you hated the movie but for some reason, I think I might like it. 878. Cellar Door - 10/9/1999 7:42:39 PM his glittery little eyes and the way he shifts them around and I like his cruel mouth with that sarcastic little twitch that comes oh so close to a smirk... 879. PincherMartin - 10/10/1999 12:59:52 AM My Top Ten for the Nineties: 880. PincherMartin - 10/10/1999 1:02:33 AM Here is Siskel and Ebert's top ten for every year since 1969. 881. EricCartman - 10/10/1999 2:38:29 AM Crumb is OK, not a huge deal, though, imo. Maybe the ultimate dysfunctional family film though. Worth checking out anyway, Pincher. 882. ee - 10/10/1999 2:43:23 AM My 10 favorites for the 90s 883. ee - 10/10/1999 2:44:18 AM off 884. EricCartman - 10/10/1999 2:47:23 AM Damn! Sorry about that, ee. I'm starting to get pretty bad about toys lately. 885. ee - 10/10/1999 2:49:34 AM no problem 886. SnowOwl - 10/10/1999 2:58:48 AM A compilation of some of my family's favourite movies of the 90s (in no particular order). 887. SpenceMirrlees - 10/10/1999 3:23:23 AM Interesting that neither Siskel nor Ebert had Godfather II on the list for 1974, and only Ebert had Chinatown. 888. SpenceMirrlees - 10/10/1999 3:25:07 AM I guess I should say, those are my least favorite "serious" movies. On most days I would marginally prefer to watch Lawrence of Arabia than, say, Leonard, Part VI. 889. butterfieldswire - 10/10/1999 4:04:40 AM I thought 12 Angry Men was great right wing political propaganda. A self-inflated, cheese brained, bleeding heart makes a travesty of the legal system by persuading a bunch of lumpen idiots to release an obviously guilty murderer on the basis of liberal guilt and wild suppositions. Anytime I have any doubts about pulling the R lever on the first Tuesday of November, I just think about 12 Angry Men, and all doubt disappears. 890. SpenceMirrlees - 10/10/1999 4:23:46 AM Who really gives a damn whether they made the right decision or not? 891. butterfieldswire - 10/10/1999 9:56:22 AM What a bizarre thing to say. "Who cares if the movie was a depiction of a travesty of justice or a depiction of the fairness of common Americans. Who cares whether Henry Fonda was portraying a pompous boob manipulating the unintelligent to satisfy his own twisted sense of self-rigteousness or a lonely hero battling the forces of conformity and repression." If we aren't supposed to care about that, what exactly about the movie are we supposed to care about. [Of course, you could say it was a great movie either way, but then that was my point.] 892. Cellar Door - 10/10/1999 10:38:38 AM What have you got against "Lawrence of Arabia," Spence? 893. CalGal - 10/10/1999 1:12:55 PM Hey, one of the great 50s sci fi movies has just started on AMC. 894. Raskolnikov - 10/10/1999 1:14:05 PM Spence: Lawrence is the worst, and Deer Hunter is one of the best? I must protest. 895. CalGal - 10/10/1999 1:19:49 PM Butter, 896. CalGal - 10/10/1999 1:21:31 PM You're quibbling with him about Deerhunter when he has The Right Stuff on the list? 897. Raskolnikov - 10/10/1999 1:29:30 PM Cal: I think Deerhunter is far worse than Right Stuff. The Right Stuff at least has historical merit, if nothing else. 898. CalGal - 10/10/1999 1:34:56 PM Heavens. Why hate The Deerhunter so much? I find it painful to watch, and it's not one I generally recommend, but I find it much more emotionally compelling than TRS. 899. Cellar Door - 10/10/1999 1:39:58 PM Both "The Right Stuff" and "The Deer Hunter" stink IMO. 900. Raskolnikov - 10/10/1999 1:41:19 PM Deerhunter is overlong, pretty boring (except for the first Russian Roulette scene), pretentious, filled with heavy-handed, and often pointless, symbolism (I knew I was in bad hands when there was a close up of the drop of wine dripping from the cup), and is generally a muddled film. 901. Raskolnikov - 10/10/1999 1:45:23 PM Also, there are certain films that just cater to very specific types of people, who just love them. While I often don't like these films (although I certainly do when I am the target audience - hence my fondness for Reality Bites and Grosse Pointe Blank), I can at least see why others would. Right Stuff is one of those films. 902. CalGal - 10/10/1999 1:52:10 PM I didn't think its war scenes were good at all, except for the RR scene you mention. But the opening scenes were terrific, and I thought it did a good job of creating characters one could care about. 903. stinky - 10/10/1999 2:40:16 PM The Deerhunter is overlong, but most great movies are. It's still not to be missed. 904. JudithAtHome - 10/10/1999 2:45:10 PM I saw American Beauty yesterday and really liked it. Someone said they didn't believe people talked like that to each other in suburbia; thirty-six years ago when I was a young suburbanite housewife, my neighbors across the street could've been Lester and his wife. It was a rude shock to me being only 18 and newly married. But I think far too many people like that exist to this day and they are out there behind the rose bushes and picket fences, leading really sad lives. 905. JudithAtHome - 10/10/1999 2:46:25 PM Damn! I was sure I'd turned that off... 906. JudithAtHome - 10/10/1999 2:47:11 PM 907. JudithAtHome - 10/10/1999 2:47:53 PM 908. robertjayb - 10/10/1999 2:57:17 PM stop 909. robertjayb - 10/10/1999 2:58:26 PM arrgh 910. CalGal - 10/10/1999 2:58:36 PM 911. CalGal - 10/10/1999 2:59:03 PM Judith, you had < i/ > which won't do the job. 912. CalGal - 10/10/1999 3:01:10 PM Best Costner performance remains Silverado; he was goofy and adorable. After that, I thought Bull Durham was good--where he first introduced the persona that he then relied on exclusively for the rest of his career. 913. robertjayb - 10/10/1999 3:01:55 PM 914. robertjayb - 10/10/1999 3:03:30 PM now what? 915. SpenceMirrlees - 10/10/1999 3:07:24 PM 891 916. EricCartman - 10/10/1999 3:31:11 PM As great as Caddyshack is (and it's certainly one of my all-time favorites as well), Animal House is better and funnier, and the first Vacation comes pretty close. At any rate, I notice that Spence also picks the second Godfather over the first. Seems like most everyone does, which must make it just about the only sequel that really is better than the original. 917. JudithAtHome - 10/10/1999 3:34:26 PM CalGal: 918. stinky - 10/10/1999 4:27:40 PM The wedding scene in the Deer Hunter? Fantastic. It's not like every wedding I've been to, but it's like every ethnic wedding I've been to. 919. SpenceMirrlees - 10/10/1999 5:30:37 PM Vacation I is great, but I personally never get as good a laugh from Animal House as either Vacation or Caddyshack. Animal House is a little more like The Blues Brothers, sort of second-tier all time comedies. 920. SpenceMirrlees - 10/10/1999 5:35:20 PM Incidentally, I saw The Blues Brothers in a movie theater in Calumet City, Illinois, home of Jake and Elwood, and a city adjacent to my home town. That's sort of my claim to fame. 921. CalGal - 10/10/1999 5:41:51 PM Hey, I was pretty sure a 25' shark wasn't going to chomp off my legs if I went swimming in the Red Sea. But the difference between "pretty sure" and "absolutely certain" made for some scary times in that first year after I saw Jaws. 922. wonkers2 - 10/10/1999 5:54:28 PM Steven Soderbergh's "The Limey" with Terence Stamp, Peter Fonda, Lesley Warren, Luis Guzman and Barry Newman is the best film noir I've seen in a long time. Terence Stamp and the entire cast are superb. Stamp is convincing as the limey who comes to L.A. (where else?)to investigate the mysterious death of his daughter, and Newman is great as the heavy heavy as is Fonda as the light heavy. I didn't notice an extra scene or word in this lean, new noir flick. The simple plot is guaranteed to keep you on the edge of your seat for the entire movie. 923. T. Tallis - 10/10/1999 6:13:05 PM "I didn't notice an extra scene or word in this lean, new noir flick." 924. stinky - 10/10/1999 6:22:07 PM Spence, their characters in the movie, but particularly in the case of Dangerfield, they reprise those characters often enuff to associate them. Chase is different in Vacation, which I snorted at, I'll admit. For some reason I thought sticking grandma on the roof in the rocking chair was a gutbuster. And the little dog being dragged to death has its appeal. 925. stinky - 10/10/1999 6:26:09 PM Yessirree, CalGal, Jaws I is one that people seem to have forgotten. Roy Scheider is also underrated. I'd say his performance in "All That Jazz" stacks up well against anyone in any film--and he didn't even win the Oscar that year. 926. CalGal - 10/10/1999 6:55:06 PM Jaws has been forgotten? Possibly on the planet Zorkon. 927. butterfieldswire - 10/10/1999 8:42:20 PM Spence - Of course, you can make a great movie where the dramatic tension comes from the justice or injustice done by a legal or political institution. Further, it seemed obvious that the meaning of the drama, depends on whether justice or injustice is done. 928. CalGal - 10/10/1999 9:19:34 PM Of course, you can make a great movie where the dramatic tension comes from the justice or injustice done by a legal or political institution. 929. stinky - 10/10/1999 9:25:17 PM Jaws doesn't have the reputation it should as far as firstrate film as opposed to thriller. 930. CalGal - 10/10/1999 9:32:11 PM Of those five, that year, I would have given it to Lemmon. I think his work in China Syndrome is one of his top five--possibly his top three. 931. wonkers2 - 10/10/1999 10:38:50 PM Just got home from "American Beauty." Powerful stuff. Last year, as I recall, I predicted that "Life is Beautiful" and Begnini would get Oscars. This year it will be, or should be in my opinion, "American Beauty" and Kevin Spacey. Anette Bening deserves a nomination for best supporting actor (actress?). And the director who I had never heard of probably deserves a nomination, too. Like Dr. Strangelove American Beauty was a powerful commentary on what's wrong with our society (materialism, guns, dysfunctional families, failed marriages, adultery, ignorance, stunted inter-personal relationships, fast food, Catbertesque business practices, etc., delivered with humor (but not as direct and riotous as Strangelove). Spoacey's next-door neighbor, ex-Marine Colonel Fitts, reminded me of one of the Air Force generals in Strangelove. Strangelove ended with the insane homophobic destruction of the world while "American Beauty's" homophobic climax was on an individual level. Anyway, in my opinion, this is a "must see" movie. Shut down your computers, Moters (??) and sally forth! 932. Cellar Door - 10/10/1999 10:41:58 PM Kevin's "losin' it" Bigtime, folks.Everybody duck! 933. Raskolnikov - 10/10/1999 11:04:34 PM judith AND wonkers have now turned to the dark side. Is there no one that can rid us of this meddlesome film?? 934. wonkers2 - 10/10/1999 11:05:59 PM Cllrdr, RuPaul was right: Spacey deserves an Oscar for American Beauty. As for Spacey "losin' it bigtime," I'll leave that to you. 935. wonkers2 - 10/10/1999 11:29:00 PM Raskolnikov, A neighbor couple found the movie so upsetting that they advised my wife and me not to see "American Beauty." Now that I've seen it I wonder whether seeing too much of themselves on the screen made them uncomfortable. What about you? After the movie when I compared my wife to the Annette Bening character, suggesting she might want to try selling real estate, she refused to get in the car with me and walked home instead. 936. butterfieldswire - 10/10/1999 11:48:10 PM Calgal - There are several ways of reading 12 Angry Men. I think the traditional way is that of a lone hero making ingenious arguments in the face of conformist pressures that demonstrate there is considerable reasonable doubt in what appeared to be an open and shut case. But, in fact, a chimp could see that all of Fonda's arguments don't add up to any challenge to the overwhelming evidence that established the villian's guilt. 937. wonkers2 - 10/10/1999 11:48:35 PM Everybody up to date on "collaborative filtering?" According to the October 4 "New Yorker": "John Riedel, a University of Minnesota computer scientist who is one of the pioneers of this technology, has set up a Web site called MovieLens, which is a very elegant example of collaborative filtering at work. Weveryone who logs on--and tens of thousands of people have already done so--is asked to rate a series of movies on a scale of 1 to 5, where 5 means 'must see' and 1 means 'awful.' for example, I rated 'Rushmore' as a 5, which meant that I was put into the group of people who loved 'Rushmore.' I then rated 'Summer of Sam' as a 1, which put me into the somewhat smaller and more select group that both loved 'Rushmore' and hated 'Summer of Sam.' Collaborative-filtering systems don't work all that well at first, because, obviously, in order to find someone's cultural counterparts you need to know a lot more about them than how they felt about two movies. Even after I had given the system seven opinions (including 'Election,'4,; 'Notting Hill' 2; 'The Sting,'4; and 'Star Wars' 1, it was making mistakes. It thought I would love 'Titanic' and 'Zero Effect,', and I disliked them both. But after I had plugged in about fifteen opinions--which Riedl says is probably the minimum--I began to notice that the arting that MovieLens predicted I would give a movie and the rating I actually gave it were nearly always, almost eerily, the same. The system had found a small group of people who feel exactly the same way I do about a wide range of popular movies." Anyway, a facinating article and concept. 938. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 12:06:37 AM wonkers: 939. CalGal - 10/11/1999 12:21:40 AM But, in fact, a chimp could see that all of Fonda's arguments don't add up to any challenge to the overwhelming evidence that established the villian's guilt. 940. SpenceMirrlees - 10/11/1999 12:29:40 AM well said Cal. I don't think I have any need to add to that. 941. Stumbo - 10/11/1999 12:41:09 AM Why was the knife-related stuff besides the point? 942. CalGal - 10/11/1999 12:55:45 AM Stumbo, 943. Stumbo - 10/11/1999 1:06:55 AM CG: 944. CalGal - 10/11/1999 1:23:42 AM But, within the context of the flick, that testimony was not unshakeable. 945. CalGal - 10/11/1999 2:01:08 AM Shee-it. The Practice is getting more like a slasher flick every week. 946. CuriousPluck - 10/11/1999 2:07:04 AM (re discussion from 10/8 - 10/10 sigh, damn computer) 947. CuriousPluck - 10/11/1999 2:11:18 AM whoops - damned, that is... 948. CuriousPluck - 10/11/1999 2:12:10 AM 949. CalGal - 10/11/1999 2:14:25 AM You know, I enjoy watching Shawshank Redemption. But I do not grok this greatest rating so many give it. 950. SnowOwl - 10/11/1999 2:16:18 AM I saw Forrest Gump for the first time last night and I hated it. 951. CalGal - 10/11/1999 2:25:02 AM Oh, I enjoy Forrest Gump. But I know a lot of people have watched the movie and seen it as a morality play. The movie they describe, I wouldn't like either. 952. CuriousPluck - 10/11/1999 2:47:46 AM Tim Robins (love him) suspended my disbelief in the character he portrayed. Gump was pure fun. 953. CuriousPluck - 10/11/1999 2:49:14 AM 954. SnowOwl - 10/11/1999 2:59:07 AM Cal, 955. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 9:29:37 AM CalGal, 956. CalGal - 10/11/1999 10:08:51 AM My objection to Forrest Gump is that it forces down people's throats a very popular and very wrong view of the history of the baby boom generation. 957. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 10:25:50 AM CalGal, 958. Cellar Door - 10/11/1999 10:27:55 AM "Forrest Gump" has the same relationship to the Vietnam era as "Hitler Builds A City For the Jews" does to the Holocaust. 959. butterfieldswire - 10/11/1999 11:11:42 AM CalGal - The evidence for guilt in 12AM was overwhelming. In addition to the circumstantial evidence (the defendent, a felon, had a violent argument with the victim on the night of the murder; the murder weapon was identical to a knife carried by the defendent who had no alibi and was the only person in the world besides the victim to have access to the scene of the crime), there was an eyewitness to the crime with no inconsistencies in her statement and no evidence presented challenging her credibility (who was no more likely to be both unable to see AND a pathological liar as any credible witness in the history of jursiprudence) and another witness who saw the defendent flee the scene shortly after the crime occurred (the only challenge to whose testimony was that his estimation of how long it took to him to reach the place where he saw the victim flee differed by a matter of seconds from the best estimate of a wildly inaccurate experiment meant to replicate the experience). 960. butterfieldswire - 10/11/1999 11:19:42 AM Anyway, speaking of shirking, does anyone want to narrow their lists of best 10-20 movies of the 90's down to 1 [Not that I'm complaining, we finally got a Blockbuster video in town, and I'm writing down a lot of the movies you're suggesting to rent. I'm dying to see Caddyshack again for instance.] 961. 109109 - 10/11/1999 11:29:14 AM Three Kings 962. 109109 - 10/11/1999 11:29:28 AM Unfortunately, the film descends into hackneyed "I have met the enemy and he is me tripe" and you will find that all ensuing plot contrivances are well known to you. Worse, the political moralizing becomes oppressive, and the sweeping feel-good ending is disastrous. During the second half, we are informed with all of the subtlety of a 2 x 4 to the noggin that the war was about oil, not the liberation of Kuwait; that there is a human cost to civilian deaths; that war is indeed hell; and, most importantly, that we can all get along. Paramount is the theme that we ugly Americans discount the 963. Adrianne - 10/11/1999 12:20:10 PM 964. JudithAtHome - 10/11/1999 12:28:29 PM CalGal: 965. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 12:32:43 PM Yo Adrienne, 966. CalGal - 10/11/1999 12:59:30 PM Niner, 967. CalGal - 10/11/1999 1:00:33 PM No, I saw no character undergo a conversion, learn any lessons about war or morality. The four soldiers were all fundamentally decent from the start. Clooney was the moral force of the movie if anyone was, and he didn't have any surprises in store. The only one that did have a shock of sorts was Wahlberg, who was a gentle soul from the beginning of the movie. He just saw the enemy face up. No big deal there. 968. CuriousPluck - 10/11/1999 1:03:10 PM Adrianne, add me to the list of fuming Titanic Detestors. I found Titanic to be monstrously revolting. A complete waste of money. DiCap - whatever the ten year old pup's name - was a horror. 969. 109109 - 10/11/1999 1:09:22 PM Cal 970. 109109 - 10/11/1999 1:11:43 PM Cal 971. CalGal - 10/11/1999 1:31:54 PM Butter, 972. CalGal - 10/11/1999 1:49:26 PM I guess I must have misread when the captors forced Marky Mark to suck oil after he stated that the war was about the liberation of Kuwait. 973. CalGal - 10/11/1999 1:50:50 PM Form robbers, to rescuers/robbers, to rescuers, all based upon life lessons given by a harsh land and a barbaric people. 974. glendajean - 10/11/1999 1:50:52 PM I saw three movies on video this weekend: Play By Heart, Analyze This, and the one with Freddie Prinz ?, Jr. about the high school prom queen. All forgettable movies. 975. 109109 - 10/11/1999 1:53:02 PM Cal 976. CalGal - 10/11/1999 2:03:52 PM Dan, 977. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 2:22:23 PM CalGal, 978. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 2:58:46 PM Regarding 12 Angry Men: 979. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 3:01:46 PM I would have loved for one of the jurists to raise a probability argument. "Okay people, what do you think is the chance that there was a killer who just happened to have an identical switchblade, who also happened to have access to the apartment and a motive to kill the suspect's father on the same night that witnesses hear an argument and a murder threat, that the suspect coincidentally can't remember the movie he says he saw (unbelievable in my book - I find that inconsequentials that occur just before a memorable event become very memorable - who remembers where they were win the shuttle exploded, Reagan was shot, or Kennedy was shot), that the suspect just happened to lose the knife identical to the one at the crime scene, and that the eyewitnesses to the act *didn't* see what they said they saw, and are lying for completely speculative motives. 980. stinky - 10/11/1999 3:07:34 PM Wanna know why Forest Gump is a chickenshit movie? 981. CalGal - 10/11/1999 3:26:33 PM Dan, 982. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 3:37:19 PM CalGal, 983. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 3:45:48 PM I don't hate Gump, I just see it as an inconsequential little comedy with failed aspirations toward significance. My main gripe with it as that it avoids any real commentary on what happens. It is just a very brief travelogue through Boomer history, and says nothing about it. 984. CalGal - 10/11/1999 3:50:47 PM Rask, 985. CalGal - 10/11/1999 3:51:28 PM I also thought that the knife was quite damning. When Quincy said that "there is no way he would have used a knife any other way", he was implicitly saying that the kid was a streetwise knife expert *and* ignoring the fact that the victim was *indeed* killed in that way by a switchblade. 986. CalGal - 10/11/1999 3:52:36 PM As I said, though--the interesting thing is that they couldn't muster a better argument. There might have been a better argument to be made--but the jurors had fixated on a few things, not really thought it through, and provided weak reasoning that Fonda easily shot down. And, as I said, the people who were convinced of his guilt chose to vote not guilty, rather than stand up for their opinions. 987. CalGal - 10/11/1999 3:58:29 PM Dan, 988. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 4:14:10 PM Cal: regarding reading glasses, it depends how much you read. I have colleagues who wear them frequently, and do have callouses. And you ignore farsightedness and other eye problems. Not full stop. 989. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 4:16:57 PM How could you not see the attempts at significance in Gump? The most obvious example is his monologue on Jenny's grave, about whether we are guided by God or by random chance. 990. CalGal - 10/11/1999 4:46:45 PM Rask, 991. CalGal - 10/11/1999 4:47:49 PM As for your bit about "weak-minded individuals"--hardly weak-minded. It took a lot of convincing. The whole point was that these people were quite ordinary. As I said earlier, a movie could be made about one man coercing 11 to his view of reality. But this was more a demonstration of how very little people actually use to make up their mind, and how someone could use that to his advantage. 992. CalGal - 10/11/1999 4:50:22 PM 993. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 5:05:06 PM Cal: regarding the woman: I agree that there is some small doubt. The glasses were never brought up, and ideally someone should be dispatched to find an answer to that question. My point was that there are other explanations for the marks on her nose other than "she is too blind to see the murder". Given that she testified that she saw the murder, I would assume one of the non-"blind as a bat" reasons. I also think "wanting attention" is a damned weak reason to testify to witnessing a murder. Talk about reasonable doubt. 994. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 5:06:43 PM "That's the "significance"? Heavens. That was pretty mild. And also in keeping with the movie and the character, given his life. I thought you meant "significance" in some great cosmic "this is the quintessential essence of the boomers" philosophical sense." 995. stinky - 10/11/1999 5:19:39 PM Yawn. At least Springsteen agrees with me re Gump--"Now life's like a box of chocolates/You never know what you're going to get/Stupid is as stupid does and all the rest of that shit." Simplistic moralizing trotted out neath the dull expression of an innocent yahoo still equals simplistic moralizing. 996. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 5:23:54 PM stinky, 997. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 5:33:23 PM I liked the one with "Forrest Dole": 998. stinky - 10/11/1999 5:35:25 PM Heh-heh-heh. Jeffrey always was good for a laugh. 999. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 5:36:41 PM stinky, 1000. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 5:36:51 PM millenial? 1001. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 5:40:24 PM stinky, 1002. Dantheman - 10/11/1999 5:52:16 PM The millennial was a nice, if belated, birthday present. And so, as the ads for Mel Gibson's Hamlet should have said, "G'day, sweet prince." See you all tomorrow. 1003. CalGal - 10/11/1999 7:02:05 PM Rask, 1004. CalGal - 10/11/1999 7:04:00 PM Alas. The fact that the prosecution didn't think of it is a tad more significant than that. Not only that, the prosecution--in stressing the amount of time it took for the old man to get to the door--thought the opposite. The prosecution thought the old man was not mistaken and thought that the boy had sprinted in a dead panic. You are basically helping out the prosecution by saying, "Well, they got it wrong. But I can come up with a theory that covers it, so I'll allow them their error." 1005. CalGal - 10/11/1999 7:05:06 PM As for "easy to convince"-- I mentioned several times earlier that most people don't really think things through, leaving them at a disadvantage when faced with someone who has. The point is not that most people are weak-minded--the point is that most people make up their minds with far too little thought, leaving an opening for someone to assail them merely by asking them to think about their decision. 1006. CalGal - 10/11/1999 7:10:47 PM Correction: obviously, as a jury member, you can technically do anything you want. It does become relevant, though, in determining whether your assertion--that the kid was obviously guilty--was something you'd come to on your own or whether there was data to support it, given the normal guidelines of juror instructions. 1007. Cellar Door - 10/11/1999 7:38:41 PM Just in from Alain Resnais' "Same Old Song" (aka "On Connais la Chanson") Dedicated to Dennis Potter it usues the same lipsynch technique as "Pennies from Heaven" and "The Singing Detective" but with a difference -- on brief snatches of songs are used. They're all French and you probably haven't heard of any of them before. The subject is middle-aged white collar angst, and clinical depression. 1008. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 11:38:32 PM Cal: basically, the circumstantial evidence is pretty damned strong. I didn't need much to push me over the edge to guilty. Two people who say they saw him clinched it. I probably wouldn't have voted to convict with just the physical evidence, or the eyewitness accounts, but the two combined are strong enough. 1009. pseudoerasmus - 10/11/1999 11:42:51 PM The Worst ("Serious") Films of the 1990s 1010. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 11:48:34 PM Oh, and I did want to make one last comment on the wedding scene in Deerhunter. It really did remind me of a lot of wedding videos. Which is probably why I disliked it. Most wedding videos are quite boring. Capturing what a real wedding is like on film doesn't strike me as much more meaningful accomplishment than capturing what a wait in a doctor's office feels like. 1011. Raskolnikov - 10/11/1999 11:50:07 PM Pseudo: I thought English Patient was part of your "triumvirate of evil". For awhile there, I actually thought we had something in common regarding film. 1012. SpenceMirrlees - 10/11/1999 11:58:49 PM I guess my strong disagreement with that statement of the cultural significance of a wedding accounts for the difference of opinion about that scene in The Deerhunter. 1013. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:01:20 AM Rask, 1014. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 12:09:42 AM smacked me around? You're sexy when you act tough. 1015. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 12:12:31 AM and it isn't two different issues. If the characters in the film can feel free to extrapolate well beyond the facts of the case and the arguments of the defense, and go out and do their own investigations, I think criticizing me for making an inconsequential alteration to the prosecution's case is rank hypocrisy. 1016. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 12:17:21 AM Spence: I have been to an awful lot of weddings that were very much like that. I do think it was boring, but it was character development, so I don't fault the film very much for it. My main gripes are reserved for the weak symbolism involving Russian Roulette, and pretty much everything to do with Christopher Walken's character after the escape from the POW camp. It isn't a film I hate. I just don't think it was good enough to warrant the presence on a top ten list. 1017. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:19:29 AM 1018. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:20:09 AM 1019. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:21:12 AM You're sexy when you act tough. 1020. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:21:53 AM I think Deerhunter was uneven, but I remember being moved by the scene with Meryl Streep at the supermarket checkout counter. In fact, I actually like the long pre-Vietnam part of the movie more than the rest. 1021. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:22:35 AM What's "American Beauty"? 1022. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:23:09 AM Pseudo, 1023. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:24:51 AM Amistad was so-so, not "dreadfully bad". 1024. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:25:14 AM That's actually pretty interesting--all the people who like Deer Hunter prefer the pre-war scenes. I would add in the Russian roulette scene--the first one, not where Walken buys it. 1025. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:26:11 AM I saw that stupid psycho ghost drama with Bruce Willis. I thought it a minor Twilight Zone episode distended to two hours. 1026. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:26:23 AM Oh, I don't know. Amistad was seriously awful, and it had more pretensions to "serious" than The English Patient. I am not seeking to knock that one off your list, mind you. 1027. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:27:03 AM You didn't like it at all? Not even the kid's performance? 1028. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:27:06 AM Who was Kevin Spacey again? Wasn't he in that LA film noir with lots of Australian actors? 1029. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:28:36 AM Yes, that was Kevin Spacey. Also in The Usual Suspects, which got him the Oscar. 1030. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:28:44 AM The kid in that Bruce Willis ghost movie could have easily been cured with a good honest brutal beating from the very beginning. 1031. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:30:24 AM Amistad was a harmless, feel-good middle-brow movie which had no pretensions to profundity. TEP was something else altogether, an oversculpted block of feces. 1032. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:30:55 AM Oh, you're just being silly. A beating wouldn't have helped at all. Massive amounts of mockery, shaming him into denial of the ghosts, ridiculing if he ever seemed a tad nervous--that might have abused the child into compliance with your version of reality. But a beating? Not likely. 1033. pseudoerasmus - 10/12/1999 12:32:10 AM Or selling him into boy whore slavery in Central Asia. 1034. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 12:34:16 AM "It was to the prosecution's case which, for reasons mentioned, is well outside your juror's job scope. You're out of order. Objection overruled. " 1035. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:35:27 AM Amistad was a harmless, feel-good middle-brow movie which had no pretensions to profundity. 1036. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:38:12 AM And since when is a juror bound to decide the case based soley on the prosecution's take on the facts? 1037. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 12:52:02 AM "They aren't supposed to do his job for him. That is, I am pretty sure, a no no." 1038. CalGal - 10/12/1999 1:05:46 AM It is therefore the prosectution's argument that the deceased was run over by Mr X's car in a willful act of homocide 1039. CalGal - 10/12/1999 1:07:55 AM Hahahahahahahahaha. 1040. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 1:22:03 AM "That the old man identified the murderer is not a fact. It is eye-witness testimony, which is never to be confused with facts. Physical evidence is facts. Jurors tend to rely--often unjustifiably--on eye witness testimony. But it isn't not factual. " 1041. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 1:23:45 AM and on that note, I am going to bed. 1042. EricCartman - 10/12/1999 2:15:06 AM Pseudo [to CalGal]: The kid in that Bruce Willis ghost movie could have easily been cured with a good honest brutal beating from the very beginning. 1043. Stumbo - 10/12/1999 2:31:16 AM "He'd watch the flick and call it poo..." 1044. Stumbo - 10/12/1999 2:36:26 AM Sorry -- make that "... and he'd call...", to keep the right number of syllables. 1045. EricCartman - 10/12/1999 3:28:47 AM "While all the little South Park bastards needed a sound thrashing, I found myself rather charmed by Cartman's ability to swear with such rhythm and panache. Of all the memorable movie lines this year, maybe none is more memorable than 'fuck fuck fuckety-fuck-fuck'. 1046. Stumbo - 10/12/1999 4:00:48 AM Well, some of them could've used a bit more rhyming. E.g., the first verse of I Can Change was ABAB (or reasonably so) -- but the second, merely ABCB. It was such a let-down, I nearly fell out of my seat. 1047. JudithAtHome - 10/12/1999 9:56:01 AM A type of spaghetti? 1048. 109109 - 10/12/1999 10:11:51 AM Worst "Serious" or "Art" Films of the 1990s 1049. CalGal - 10/12/1999 10:21:41 AM I don't understand why "The English Patient" is considered a "serious" film. It was a schlocky romance. 1050. stinky - 10/12/1999 10:38:29 AM 109109--We agree so often it's scary. Though "Leaving Las Vegas" isn't as bad as those others. Mebbe I liked it cause it captured the essence of Las Vegas for me. 1051. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 10:39:19 AM Cal: TEP dressed itself up in enough poorly executed attempts at symbolism and profundity that I think it fits. 1052. JudithAtHome - 10/12/1999 10:40:46 AM CalGal: 1053. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 10:42:02 AM Leaving Las Vegas perfectly captured the feeling of a co-dependent relationship I was once in. I completely understand why a lot of people dislike it, but it really hit me on an emotional level. 1054. Dantheman - 10/12/1999 10:42:29 AM stinky, 1055. 109109 - 10/12/1999 10:42:51 AM I couldn't agree more on Legends of the Fall. Gruesome. I was noncommittal at Braveheart. Nice sweep, good head-knocking, and it was a Mel Gibson film. And the performances in Shine were excellent (especially the pianist as child and young man), so I can't go with you there. 1056. 109109 - 10/12/1999 10:43:59 AM Rask 1057. stinky - 10/12/1999 10:46:34 AM The English Patient shore is takin a well-deserved beatin. Would it have been better if the Juliette Binoche romance had been the main focus? I didna read the book, but the filly who talked me into takin her to watch the cinematic pig says the book dealt more with Hannah and Kip. 1058. stinky - 10/12/1999 10:48:18 AM 109109 1059. 109109 - 10/12/1999 10:48:52 AM I can go with Costner and Cruise. But Happy Gilmore? Thems fightin' words. 1060. 109109 - 10/12/1999 10:49:11 AM stink 1061. stinky - 10/12/1999 10:51:13 AM It's your thread, CalGal, so I'll be good. But I couldn't stand Adam Sandler on Saturday Night Live even. 1062. Raskolnikov - 10/12/1999 10:51:53 AM 109: Shine was terrific until Geoffrey Rush took over the role. I thought he wasn't all that good, and the story took a nosedive into a septic tank. 1063. 109109 - 10/12/1999 10:53:49 AM Rask 1064. Dantheman - 10/12/1999 10:53:50 AM I agree with most of the worst list here, with the exception of American Beauty. Some more to add: 1065. stinky - 10/12/1999 10:55:24 AM Dantheman, you jest brought anuther to my mind with your Romeo & Juliet. Since this is a consensus woofer, it may be cheating: Kenneth Branagh's "Frankenstein." 1066. 109109 - 10/12/1999 10:56:31 AM Boogie Nights was a fine film. This is an old discussion (I'm always amazed at the combat over this flick), but it was visually impressive, well-acted, and it took its time in the manner of a Sayles film. 1067. 109109 - 10/12/1999 10:57:22 AM Oh Lord. 1068. stinky - 10/12/1999 11:01:12 AM Yep, Titanic deserves special approbation cause of bein such a blockbuster. As for DiCaprio, his mere onscreen appearance isn't as much an offense to everything male as Brad Pitt's, but lifts can do only so much. Michael J. Fox knows this. 1069. stinky - 10/12/1999 11:02:40 AM And Kenneth's emoting while sweeping around the ballroom after stitching said head back on. 1070. 109109 - 10/12/1999 11:04:39 AM What I like about DiCaprio is his understanding that, as an effeminate little hairless, his shelf-life is limited. He is, in essence, a big screen Bobby Sherman. To his credit, he is using his stardom wisely, boffing every model he can find. 1071. theDiva - 10/12/1999 11:06:35 AM We're doing Bad Movies of the '90s? 1072. Dantheman - 10/12/1999 11:06:49 AM Niner, 1073. 109109 - 10/12/1999 11:11:20 AM Kristin Scott Thomas needs to forced to drink Schlitz, watch "Cops" and make my fucking dinner. 1074. theDiva - 10/12/1999 11:15:01 AM She was quite good in that PBS thing where she played the nun who assumed control of her family's business following the death of her brother; but those two pictures I mentioned have left me with an active dislike for her. I probably won't go see that Harrison Ford movie now and it's all her fault. 1075. stinky - 10/12/1999 11:20:01 AM Argh! Now you've made me gnash my keyboard with envy jest thinkin bout DiCaprio and all those models. Guess I'd better start anuther audit to make myself feel better. 1076. AceofSpades - 10/12/1999 11:24:36 AM 1077. theDiva - 10/12/1999 11:31:04 AM Ace 1078. 109109 - 10/12/1999 11:36:30 AM Antonio has a new movie coming out - "Crazy in Alabama." He is the director. 1079. CoralReef - 10/12/1999 11:37:40 AM Worst serious ones 1080. theDiva - 10/12/1999 11:39:56 AM Won't be seeing that one, either.....he's not in it. Two hours watching Melanie Griffith hit that one note is a bit much for me. 1081. CoralReef - 10/12/1999 11:41:52 AM Poor Melanie peaked in Body Double. 1082. 109109 - 10/12/1999 11:42:20 AM Coral 1083. Dantheman - 10/12/1999 11:42:56 AM I've seen previews for "Crazy in Alabama". Looks awful. 1084. 109109 - 10/12/1999 11:43:09 AM Coral 1085. CoralReef - 10/12/1999 11:52:26 AM Slingblade, mmmhmmm. So imitatable, mmmmhmmm. 1086. JudithAtHome - 10/12/1999 11:58:47 AM If the movie is half as bad as the trailers for it, Crazy In Alabama will be a hoot fest. Was Melanie on Thorazine? Was Antonio unable to tell his little sweetie, "Enough with the collegen; you look like Flipper!" 1087. AceofSpades - 10/12/1999 12:04:38 PM 1088. Dantheman - 10/12/1999 12:23:04 PM Ace, 1089. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:39:56 PM I can't give Titanic a bad rating; the sinking was too impressive. And that part hit me emotionally, even if the rest didn't. I can't put Shine on the list because the teenage years were played brilliantly by Noah wuzzisface. Braveheart was fun, plus it had that marvellous Irish lad. 1090. CalGal - 10/12/1999 12:40:47 PM I can't see what's up with The Player. Lordy, that movie just yawned me. 1091. AceofSpades - 10/12/1999 12:46:10 PM 1092. Cellar Door - 10/12/1999 8:45:49 PM I highly reccomend "Beefcake." It's a perfect family movie. 1093. stinky - 10/13/1999 8:59:33 AM Is it jest me or does "Ally McBeal lite" suck? 1094. KuligintheHooligan - 10/13/1999 10:01:12 AM My wife and I watched "Devil's Advocate" on video last night. Now THERE'S a movie I wasn't prepared for! I thought it was just going to be this lawyer flick, not something about Satan! 1095. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 10:11:06 AM Well being that it was a lawyer flick, of course it was about Satan! 1096. Raskolnikov - 10/13/1999 11:27:30 AM Ace: 1097. pseudoerasmus - 10/13/1999 11:29:12 AM Kuligan, at what point did you realise it was about Satan? Early, late, middle? And what triggered the realisation? I enjoy hearing about Thumper reactions to movies. 1098. Raskolnikov - 10/13/1999 11:30:08 AM In action films, I personally find that long takes for fight scenes can drastically improve the quality of the fight. It appears more real, since any lack of physical skill by the actors can't be hidden by an edit. The Matrix, and a lot of Hong Kong films, used this to good effect. 1099. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 11:34:44 AM Welles, dp Russell Metty, and camera operator Philip Lathrop did it the old-fashioned way in "Touch of Evil." The "streadicam" had yet to be invented, you know. But since its invention everybody has wanted to do one of these shots. DePalma has one for the opening of "Bonfire of the Vanities" for instance. The one in Scorsese's "GoodFellas" works the best because, as in "Touch of Evil," it's no merely a "stunt" but central to the narrative and atmosphere. The power Henry exerts to be able to walk into the Copa and get a table down front -- and the impression it makes on Karen -- can only be conveyed in a long take. 1100. stostosto - 10/13/1999 11:37:20 AM For what it's worth, I found the Player to be an outstanding movie, far, far above the vast majority of Hollywood outpour that clogs the cinemas and TV channels all over the world. 1101. pseudoerasmus - 10/13/1999 11:39:49 AM I thought it was rather an ordinary Hollywood movie with a very ordinary plot, with dentures for satirical teeth. In sum a mediocrity which a few technically elegant shots could not improve upon. But isn't this just summarising Robert Altman? 1102. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 11:42:19 AM No. 1103. stostosto - 10/13/1999 11:46:39 AM Why are people here so bloody blasé about everything? 1104. PelleNilsson - 10/13/1999 11:53:02 AM Kuligan 1105. JudithAtHome - 10/13/1999 12:59:10 PM Pelle: 1106. glendajean - 10/13/1999 1:25:52 PM RE: long takes 1107. rosettastone - 10/13/1999 1:34:52 PM A Warning for Those Who Want to Work for the Clintons... 1108. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 1:44:22 PM You're thinking of Antonioni's "The Passenger," glendajean. Great movie. 1109. janjon - 10/13/1999 1:50:05 PM Of so many worthy contenders, The Piano wins the Big Tripe award. Just awful. 1110. JudithAtHome - 10/13/1999 2:08:53 PM Rosetta: 1111. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 2:18:12 PM Maybe he thinks people are going to expect him to give blowjobs. 1112. CalGal - 10/13/1999 2:23:09 PM Sto, 1113. stinky - 10/13/1999 2:31:36 PM I'm too blase to worry about accents. 1114. CuriousPluck - 10/13/1999 3:03:14 PM In support of The Piano, the little translating banshee's performance was outstanding. I'm particularly enamoured of the plucky pieces chosen for the soundtrack, although Holly Hunter(?) disgusts me. 1115. rosettastone - 10/13/1999 3:05:33 PM I also liked the beach scenes in "The Piano." Esepically the first one where they were trying to get the instrument off the sand bar. 1116. stinky - 10/13/1999 3:08:03 PM In support of The Piano, I'll say da name was apropos. After expending all dey imagination coming up wif such a witty, imaginative title, da screenwriters can be excused if da rest of the script sank like a piano falling in the middle of the ocean. 1117. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 3:15:00 PM LOATED "The Piano." When she was pulled overboard I started to cheer -- only to realize I was the only person in the screening room who wanted to see her dead. 1118. rosettastone - 10/13/1999 3:18:17 PM Stinky: I had a laugh reading the copy last night in the playpen. The first time I read you I thought you were a put on, too. But I thought that 109109, clearly mote's shining star, was the one sharing the odors with TT's audience. 1119. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 3:20:55 PM LOATHED 1120. Raskolnikov - 10/13/1999 3:23:00 PM Hunter is a babe. She won my heart in Broadcast News: 1121. Dantheman - 10/13/1999 3:24:29 PM Cellar Door, 1122. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 3:28:46 PM LOVED "Living Out Loud." For once a movie in which a happy ending doesn't involve our heroine getting a man. 1123. CalGal - 10/13/1999 3:29:24 PM Rask, 1124. rosettastone - 10/13/1999 3:32:07 PM Judith: Ever the Clinton enabler in badmouthing (pun intended) Monica's daddy. (I noticed how you ignored her slut mother.) 1125. CuriousPluck - 10/13/1999 3:34:44 PM Cellar [1117] - yeah, I hoped she'd asphyxiate too. 1126. Cellar Door - 10/13/1999 3:34:47 PM Wait a minute, I've seen this movie before. "White House Spin Doctors Vs. The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy," right? 1127. stinky - 10/13/1999 3:44:11 PM Well Rosetta I take it a great compliment that any would mistake me for Ned(?) 1128. KuligintheHooligan - 10/13/1999 3:51:57 PM pseudoerasmus, 1129. rosettastone - 10/13/1999 3:54:57 PM No, Stinky, you're confusing AceofSpades (NedTesticular/Simon Templar) with Niner (HokeMoseley) in TableTalk. 1130. CalGal - 10/13/1999 3:58:55 PM And I don't want to see another word about this crap in this thread. 1131. rosettastone - 10/13/1999 4:00:32 PM You? 1132. JudithAtHome - 10/13/1999 4:17:44 PM rosetta: 1133. stinky - 10/13/1999 4:20:04 PM I'm gwin to haf to take CalGal's side hyeah. Jest cause dis was mentioned on TV don't make it part of a Movies and TV discussion. Anyone wanna join yours truly in the pig, er, playpen? 1134. JudithAtHome - 10/13/1999 4:25:33 PM Sure...you run ahead and I'll be there soon. 1135. 109109 - 10/13/1999 9:46:00 PM I have now watched two halves of "The West Wing." In the two halves I watched, the chief of staff humiliated the vice-president and talked to him like he was an eleven year old. Then, he threatened to "finish" him. I also watched the deputy chief of staff threaten one congressman in front of the Capitol (he needed his vote) and then threaten another congressman in the White House (he needed his vote as well). To the first congressman, he threatened a primary challenge; to the second, he said Congress made him vomit. 1136. CalGal - 10/13/1999 10:02:19 PM That's so funny. I knew you'd hate it. And it reminded me of The Practice, too, although I don't dislike it as much as you do--having been in neither law or politics. 1137. Raskolnikov - 10/13/1999 11:10:15 PM My brother in law works for the JAG, and hates no TV show worse than... JAG. One would think lawyers would be used to having their profession inaccurately portrayed by now. 1138. CalGal - 10/13/1999 11:12:21 PM Rask, 1139. CalGal - 10/14/1999 1:05:21 AM Niner, 1140. glendajean - 10/14/1999 2:19:42 AM I finally watched an entire episode of "The West Wing" tonight, too. 1141. glendajean - 10/14/1999 2:19:55 AM 1142. CalGal - 10/14/1999 2:23:09 AM GJ, 1143. glendajean - 10/14/1999 2:33:15 AM Cal -- I suppose it's balanced. I think IRL their hubris would have gotten them into more trouble with Congress, not to mention the W Post, which would have done a "not ready for primetime" followup. 1144. CalGal - 10/14/1999 2:40:57 AM GJ, 1145. glendajean - 10/14/1999 2:44:30 AM Weren't most of the political movies fairly disappointing at the box office? I guess Dave was an exception. 1146. CalGal - 10/14/1999 2:46:26 AM As for their hubris--I thought the news stories discussing how it was not only a success for the veep, but a failure for the President, communicated to the naive viewer (aka CalGal) that it was a smack to the Pres. 1147. CalGal - 10/14/1999 2:48:19 AM Oh, yes, they all--except maybe Wag the Dog and yes, Dave was a big hit--didn't do all that well. But the recent are as close as we generally get to reflecting reality in politics--it certainly isn't Spin City or, as we've discussed, Wag the Dog. 1148. glendajean - 10/14/1999 2:53:18 AM Perhaps another drama to survive besides ER and NYPD Blue. 1149. Schehezarade - 10/14/1999 7:25:41 AM Did anyone else watch "L'Appartement" last night on Ch.4? An interesting French film about a love triangle gone awry. Some of the fantasy sequences were a bit hard to follow, but I was immediately caught up into it even though I missed the first twenty minutes. Help, I need a recount of those first twenty minutes! 1150. Cellar Door - 10/14/1999 9:55:19 AM It's impossible for movies to compete with the reality of politics today. Or anything else for that matter. 1151. Schehezarade - 10/14/1999 10:26:29 AM CellarDoor 1152. Cellar Door - 10/14/1999 11:03:20 AM Not despair, just embittered amusement. "Bulworth," "Wag the Dog," and "Primary Colors" are all first-rate films but they don;t stand a chance alongside wall-to-wall coverage of the Blowjob of the Century. 1153. 109109 - 10/14/1999 11:09:33 AM I thought Primary Colors was the best of the bunch. And you are absolutely correct. Given that the real Clintons had so far surpassed the interesting political and moral crossroads depicted in the film, it seemed almost quaint. 1154. Schehezarade - 10/14/1999 11:22:45 AM I thought that the "failure" of those films was caused by the American audience's general apathy of politics *because of* the constant media coverage of MonicaGate? The LAST thing people want to see is more of the same, especially when they can see it for free. 1155. JudithAtHome - 10/14/1999 12:23:13 PM Hey, is this a cool review or what? Rex Reed: "Vicious, campy, anarchistic, pretentious, and crazy as an outhouse rat, Fight Club is a film without a shred of redeeming value that may have to find its audience in Hell." 1156. roseTTasTonE - 10/14/1999 4:45:20 PM Enabler Judith: Since you care... 1157. CalGal - 10/14/1999 5:05:36 PM I hate reading Rex Reed. He's more interested in being clever than telling me about the movie. 1158. JudithAtHome - 10/14/1999 5:08:32 PM Thanks Rosetta. Evidently they thought better of trying that phrase on two nights of the week; last night on Law & Order, they said "the old disco go-round" or something like that when referring to that particular delight. 1159. JudithAtHome - 10/14/1999 5:12:12 PM CalGal: 1160. AceofSpades - 10/14/1999 5:38:59 PM 1161. JudithAtHome - 10/14/1999 5:54:08 PM Dave has good writers. But I still can't stand him. 1162. AceofSpades - 10/14/1999 6:01:23 PM 1163. JudithAtHome - 10/14/1999 6:34:26 PM I remember one really funny joke he told: back when Gerald Ford was advising America to "Bite the bullet", Dave suggested letting those little globs of toothpaste that fall into the sink dry out and be served as after dinner mints. Of course, this was when he was doing stand-up; he hadn't become a late night god yet. 1164. AceofSpades - 10/14/1999 6:36:38 PM 1165. AceofSpades - 10/14/1999 6:37:47 PM 1166. AceofSpades - 10/14/1999 6:45:00 PM 1167. JudithAtHome - 10/14/1999 6:45:15 PM Ace: 1168. CalGal - 10/14/1999 6:47:05 PM The book is awesome. The movie is okay, given the book it came from. I thought the guy who did Jay was quite good; the Dave character weaker. Balaban as Littleman rocked, and Bates was wonderful--but a bit too likeable. I think the real Helen must have been shit scary. 1169. CalGal - 10/14/1999 6:51:39 PM Judith, 1170. AceofSpades - 10/14/1999 6:52:58 PM 1171. JudithAtHome - 10/14/1999 6:54:25 PM Ha, mentioning Barbarians, I'm reading Philistines At The Hedgerow , about the Hamptons. I'm sure the author used that title as an hommage to Barbarians. 1172. CalGal - 10/14/1999 6:57:54 PM What is so ironic is that Jay would have been happy at CBS. Wouldn't have cared in the slightest. He had no deep, intense feelings about the history of the job. It was just a gig. He works hard and is a good company man. 1173. JudithAtHome - 10/14/1999 6:58:39 PM Jeez, just as everyone starts being interesting, I have to leave for the night....have a nice one, y'all. (Not that everyone wasn't interesting ALL DAY!) :-) 1174. roseTTasTonE - 10/14/1999 9:42:30 PM Judith: I see. I'm suppose to be thankful that you talk to me? You've always reminded me of a woman who pronounces both d's in Wednesday. 1175. JudithAtHome - 10/15/1999 11:31:50 AM Rosetta: 1176. webfeet - 10/15/1999 3:58:22 PM I don't know if anyone has seen "Guinevere" I just thought I'd mention it. There were some beautiful moments with Sarah Polley, who is totally lovely and a fresh, exciting actress to watch, but for some reason, I thought the ending was incredibly lame. It had some intense, original moments which were impressive, but something went off at the end, and it became bathetic and stupid to watch. 1177. CalGal - 10/15/1999 5:54:21 PM Webfeet, 1178. roseTTasTonE - 10/15/1999 5:59:58 PM You mean there's something you haven't seen, sister? 1179. Cellar Door - 10/15/1999 9:29:27 PM Saw "Boys Don't Cry" last night. Truly heartbreaking.Hilary Swank is amazing and Chloe Sevigny acts rather than behaves, for the first time in her life. Very scary stuff. Not easily summarized or described. "The Brandon Teena Story" was such a good documentary about the case that I didn't think a fiction film could have anything more to say, but this does. 1180. TabouliJones - 10/15/1999 10:13:10 PM 1181. CalGal - 10/15/1999 10:33:48 PM She's the San Francisco critic; can't think of her name right now. But she's one of the ones who determines what the little guy in the chair is going to do. 1182. CalGal - 10/15/1999 10:34:45 PM I agree, btw. Boys Don't Cry looks very interesting. Also the new David Lynch movie about the guy who takes his tractor across country. Farnsworth is a favorite of mine. 1183. TabouliJones - 10/15/1999 10:43:38 PM 1184. Cellar Door - 10/15/1999 11:54:07 PM I think the woman you're talking about is B. Ruby Rich. 1185. AceofSpades - 10/16/1999 4:38:40 PM 1186. Raskolnikov - 10/16/1999 5:41:56 PM It will probably finish as the second highest grosser released this year, unless one of the Holiday releases manages to pull it off. Toy Story 2 is the only one I can think of which has a chance. 1187. Raskolnikov - 10/16/1999 5:44:35 PM Although I suppose Green Mile or Man on the Moon could potentially pull it off if they really connect with audiences, but I would be shocked. 1188. Seguine - 10/16/1999 6:03:08 PM Did anyone see Idiot With Interesting Chums and Serviceable Format Charlie Rose interviewing Uneven But Entertaining John Malkovich last night? Featured was a mostly funny discussion about a new movie directed by Spike Jones of MTV fame, starring Malkovich (as himself), called Being John Malkovich? It's apparently not a documenatry or anything. Rather, a sort of surreal commentary on celebrity worship that involves a "portal" into Malkovich's brain, which some guy inadvertently discovers and subsequently sells entrance to. 1189. CalGal - 10/16/1999 6:50:35 PM Cellar has been raving over that movie. Spike Jonz, btw, is in Three Kings. I loathe Charlie Rose. I'm not even sure he's an idiot, but he makes my palms itch. 1190. Cellar Door - 10/16/1999 10:28:50 PM Soon at a Multiplex near you "Being Simon Templar." 1191. AceofSpades - 10/16/1999 10:31:36 PM 1192. Cellar Door - 10/16/1999 10:33:41 PM As delicious as that elephant dung you're eating? 1193. CalGal - 10/16/1999 10:35:49 PM Not one more in here, guys, or I'll delete this shit--elephant dung and all. 1194. JudithAtHome - 10/16/1999 10:39:56 PM I know Charlie Rose and he is an idiot. I can say this because he knows it is true. 1195. AceofSpades - 10/16/1999 10:44:12 PM 1196. JudithAtHome - 10/16/1999 10:55:32 PM Ace: 1197. AceofSpades - 10/16/1999 10:58:23 PM 1198. JudithAtHome - 10/16/1999 11:01:05 PM Really? 1199. Cellar Door - 10/16/1999 11:56:05 PM He's about as well-informed as Larry King. 1200. CalGal - 10/17/1999 4:58:07 PM Cellar, 1201. Cellar Door - 10/17/1999 9:35:02 PM The movie came off a good deal better than the book, despite the miscasting of Molina (Halliwell was Orton's height and weight and even looked enough like him to pass as a relation.) My main objection is to Lahr, and the purchase he has made on Orton's life and legacy. He's turned Orton's death into the Very Meaning of his art -- rather than that which brought artistic production to an end. I am extremely happy that the Chronicle offered me this opportunity to speak about Orton and continue the project begun by Simon Shepherd in his excellent if eccentric "Because We're Queers" (Gay Men's Press, 1989) of de-Lahr-izing him. If I can encourage one person to read "Between Us Girls" I'll be happy. 1202. Seguine - 10/17/1999 9:48:34 PM "He only asks what his assistants tell him to ask; if it's an author he's interviewing, he hasn't read the book; if it's a movie, he hasn't seen it. He has smart people working for him and if he looks like an imbecile, it's because his people are trying to get one over on him." 1203. CalGal - 10/17/1999 10:57:11 PM You know, Rod Taylor is just incredibly cute. It's not fair. He should have had more talent so I could enjoy him without guilt. 1204. Cellar Door - 10/17/1999 11:03:38 PM Oh go ahead and enjoy him anyway. He's a solid, reliable player, capable of taking direcion from the diverse likes of Alfred Hitchcock, Jack Cardiff, and Michelangelo Antonioni. 1205. CalGal - 10/17/1999 11:10:01 PM Hey, thanks! I feel much better. 1206. Cellar Door - 10/17/1999 11:32:01 PM Carmen McCrea sings in "Hotel." 1207. CalGal - 10/17/1999 11:42:48 PM Is she the pianist? Very good stuff. In fact, that was what I liked about Hotel, given the time it was made--the depiction of the racial issues. The fake doctor trying to register, the discussions between Taylor and the NAACP and their tactics, the press coverage, the fact that it screwed them with the unions, and the really nice little scene between Taylor and the front desk clerk at the "colored" hotel. 1208. Stumbo - 10/18/1999 3:24:00 AM Cause he realized he couldn't act his age? 1209. ee - 10/18/1999 3:48:16 AM CalGal: Have you never seen The Birds before? It is on video. I think its a great movie. 1210. CalGal - 10/18/1999 4:20:33 AM Oh, I've seen it quite a few times--but not in a number of years. So when I saw the end tonight I got a yearning to see the whole thing. And it had been rented at Blockbuster, dammit. Maybe this weekend. 1211. Cellar Door - 10/18/1999 9:43:40 AM Quine was suffering from depression. I believe his last movie was "W" --something or other starring Twiggy that was shot on video and transferred to film. It was barely released. 1212. JudithAtHome - 10/18/1999 10:36:15 AM Seguine: 1213. T. Tallis - 10/18/1999 4:59:38 PM Having seen the film yesterday, I can say with all assurance and authority that "Fight Club" is what is commonly referred to as "da BOMB!". 1214. Cellar Door - 10/18/1999 8:08:51 PM That's the first interesting thing I've heard about it. 1215. SpenceMirrlees - 10/18/1999 11:44:29 PM The Birds was the very first movie I saw on video. The second: Invasion of the Body Snatchers. The third: My Bloody Valentine. 1216. CalGal - 10/18/1999 11:45:58 PM Which version of Invasion--the McCarthy one or the Sutherland one? 1217. SpenceMirrlees - 10/18/1999 11:47:17 PM The later one, I think 1218. ee - 10/18/1999 11:49:28 PM First movie I ever rented was Starman. 1219. CalGal - 10/18/1999 11:51:29 PM Well, one is in color, the other in B&W. The 77 version ended in a very 70s way--no hope. Had Donald Sutherland, Leonard Nimoy, a young Jeff Goldblum, and a kickass Veronica Cartwright, who made up in advance for her continual attack of nerves in Alien. 1220. CalGal - 10/18/1999 11:54:51 PM You know, I'm trying to think back. I think the first time I saw a video was in 1983. In one weekend I saw Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Tron, and that movie with deNiro and Duvall--True Confessions? 1221. SpenceMirrlees - 10/19/1999 12:22:20 AM It was the color one, with that really freaked out dog running during some routine mayhem. 1222. CalGal - 10/19/1999 12:33:17 AM Oh yeah, that dog was bizarre. That was the Sutherland version. Good movie; one of the relatively few successful remakes. 1223. AceofSpades - 10/19/1999 12:43:30 AM
Work with me here, will you? Sheesh.
I liked many things about the Matrix's story.
1) The concept. The internal universe of The Matrix is fascinating. You can tell that they barely touched on it, and that there is a lot of potential for the two upcoming sequels. It is a fertile ground for a good story.
2) The set-up. The rules were specified. The abilities of the heroes and villains were demonstrated. The heroes were given a believable, and appropriate level, of fear of the villains. All of this is quite basic and fundamental to making a good action film, but it is something that is quite rare lately.
3) the pay-off. The film built up to the tension continually, to the inevitable showdown between Neo and the Agents. After which, the movie resolved very quickly, by the demands of the "ticking clock". Again, this is basic, but so many action films get this wrong, coming up with contrived ways to sustain the action without sustaining any of the tension.
4) The plays against expectations. Very frequently, the film used our knowledge of the common cliches of action films to surprise us. For instance, think of Neo's "jump" scene. Or, how much would you have bet going in that Fishburne was going to be dead before the film ended? Everything about his character screamed that he was going to die. When they go back to rescue him, it is actually a surprise.
And this is just the story. The art direction, score, stunt work, action choreography, cinematography, etc. are all top notch. Acting is hit and miss. Nobody sucks, but almost all could have been better casted. Only Hugo Weaving really stands out.
The concept, as far as I can tell: have some Jamaican woman babble about karma or whatever the hell she was talking about.
I disagree with every one of your bullet points.
If you think the internal universe of The Matrix is fascinating, then you don't read much science fiction. Old hat, as far as I was concerned. Enjoyable--but fascinating? Nah. Pretty standard. To me, on a level with the Star Trek universe--in sci-fi literary terms, it is indeed that run of the mill.
I don't see what is so "new" about the Neo-phyte (ha) failing in the jump scene. That is, in fact, the norm. They tried to fool the viewer into thinking he might succeed, but I found that rather lame. I don't think they played against expectations once to any huge extent. Yeah, it was nice that Fishburne didn't buy it, but that's by no means as surprising as you present it.
There was two too many showdowns with the Agents--this alone made it a weak entry in the action genre. BTW, I am assuming you are only counting sci-fi action: Terminator, Aliens etc, Total Recall. Not Speed, In the Line of Fire, The Fugitive, etc.
The art direction, score, stunt work, action choreography, cinematography, etc. are all top notch.
Agreed. That's what made the movie. As I said--it had attitude. Lots of fun, turn off your brain.
Basically, it expands on the scene where Vader reveals his fatherhood to Luke, and ties up some loose ends created with the release of Episode 1...
A furious lightsaber duel is underway. DARTH VADER is backing LUKE SKYWALKER towards the end of the gantry. A quick move by Vader chops off Luke's hand!
Darth Vader: Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Darth Vader: No... I am your father!
Luke: No, it's not true! It's impossible.
Darth Vader: Search your feelings... you know it to be true...
Luke: NO!
Darth Vader: Yes, it is true... and you know what else? You know that brass droid of yours?
Luke: Threepio?
Darth Vader: Yes... Threepio... I built him... when I was 7 years old...
Luke: No...
Darth Vader: Seven years old? And what have you done? Look at yourself, no hand, no job, and couldn't even levitate your own ship out of the swamp...
Luke: I destroyed your precious Death Star!
Darth Vader: When you were 20! When I was 10, I single-handedly destroyed a Trade Federation Droid Control ship!
Luke: Well, it's not my fault...
Darth Vader: Oh, here we go... "Poor me... my father never gave me what I wanted for my birthday... boo hoo, my daddy's the Dark Lord of the Sith...waahhh wahhh!"
Luke: Shut up...
Darth Vader: You're a slacker! By the time I was your age, I had exterminated the Jedi knights!
Luke: I used to race my T-16 through Beggar's Canyon
Darth Vader: Oh, for the love of the Emperor... 10 years old, winner of the Boonta Eve Open... Only human to ever fly a Pod Racer... right here baby!
Luke looks down the shaft. Takes a step towards it.
Darth Vader: I was wrong... You're not my kid... I don't know whose you are, but you sure ain't mine...
Luke takes a step off the platform, hesitates, then plunges down the shaft.
Darth Vader looks after him.
Darth Vader: Get a haircut!
"If you think the internal universe of The Matrix is fascinating, then you don't read much science fiction. Old hat, as far as I was concerned. Enjoyable--but fascinating? Nah. Pretty standard. To me, on a level with the Star Trek universe--in sci-fi literary terms, it is indeed that run of the mill. "
I read quite a bit of sci-fi in my youth, and thought that The Matrix had a better backstory than the vast majority of the stuff I have read, including most cyberpunk.
We are also talking about a universe which can easily be explored on film. As such, Matrix was quite original. They left me wanting to know more.
"There was two too many showdowns with the Agents--this alone made it a weak entry in the action genre. BTW, I am assuming you are only counting sci-fi action: Terminator, Aliens etc, Total Recall. Not Speed, In the Line of Fire, The Fugitive, etc. "
I am counting all action films. Fugitive and Speed were just OK. In the Line of Fire was terrific, and a better *movie*, but not a better *action movie*. In the Line of Fire was more of a thriller.
And I don't think there were two too many conflicts. The characters weren't trying to kill the bad guys. They were trying to rescue Fishburne and escape (and the subway fight was motivated by Reeves desire to find out if he really was "the one"). As such, every conflict was propelled naturally by the story and characters.
I am counting all action films.
Oh, in that case--you're just flat out wrong. (g) Taken as an action picture, Speed is better in every way to The Matrix. Better script, better actors, great concept, and keeping a bus over 50 mph in LA is one of the greatest special effects ever put on film.
But I think it's best to separate sci-fi action from straight action anyway.
Other than that, we just disagree. On the science fiction stuff in general, I found The Matrix to be ordinary science fiction--which is still better than average for movies But it doesn't get kudos for originality, given the wealth of science fiction it had to draw from.
I'm just surprised because I thought it was just a generic action movie, but apparently not. Seems worth a look.
Clooney is doing a better job at picking movies these days, I'm happy to see.
Clooney had to fight for the part, apparently. The director (Spanking the Monkey, Flirting with Disaster) wanted Nicholas Cage, who signed on for a different movie.
The idiotic "bus jump" scene alone disqualifies it, not to mention the use of the old "kidnap the girlfriend" cliche.
By the way, I was joking about Boogie Nights . I didn't really like the movie but it was far from a bomb. Marky held his own but except for Wm. Macy that wasn't too tough. (Burt was not very good at all, oscar nomination notwithstanding.)
As I said--we're too far apart to get anywhere. I enjoyed The Matrix, don't think it should be considered in the same genre as Speed and The Fugitive, and think it a worthwhile entry in the sci-fi action genre. I completely disagree with your comments about the story. I shall notch this up next to the Blair Witch Project as proof
that we aren't actually the same person, which is a relief. I often feel as if there is no reason for both of us to participate in a general movie conversation--one of us is wasting our time in crossposts.
Janjon,
I thought all the male performances in Boogie Nights were top notch. I dislike the Graham wench, and Julianne was overwrought. Of the men, Phillip Seymour Hoffman took honors.
I thought the story of Boogie Nights was pretty ordinary; where it worked for me was in character definition and interaction.
But it did raise a nagging question that I still don't know the answer to... "How come hard core pornography not fall under the jurisdiction of prostitution laws?" I mean, you have people paying people to have sex. It makes me wonder if I could set up a legal brothel by having customers "finance" my movies, and I would turn around and pay them, and the girls a much lesser sum to "star" in them.
I have always figured it has something to do with freedom of expression? Art? I mean, the minute you get into saying what you can and can't show on film, things get dicey. But I imagine there is some other reason.
But anyway, such "freedom of expression" doesn't serve as an excuse for making a murder legal as long as you are filming a snuff film. I am wondering why the *act* of having sex in exchange for money isn't illegal when it comes to porn stars.
I guess it's different out in La-La Land. I actually like "Boogie Nights," but I'd probably watch William H. Macy shop. I went to see it to see if Burt Reynold could actually act. He wasn't bad, but he really was a much better actor 30 years ago.
I think I will go see a no-brainer this weekend -- "Plunkett & Mcleane" with Robert Carlyle & Johnny Lee Miller. Sounds like good stupid fun.
they want to, as I understand it.
Yes, but that's different from banning the making of it, which is when the people get paid.
And I don't think freedom of expression applies when taking a life, does it?
I agree 100% with your assessment of Boogie Nights.
Everyone
Has Twin Falls Idaho been discussed? I haven't seen it but I'm intrigued by the premise (siamese, opps, conjoined twins)
I've only seen the trailers, but I look forward to seeing it. Got good reviews in my neck of the woods.
I enjoyed the movie very much. I had seen that it got bad reviews, but I liked it, as did my wife.
Also playing now is "arlington road." Has anybody seen that? I think that is the correct title, it has Jeff Bridges in it.
That's my point. Freedom of expression does not give you permission to break the law by either killing someone any more than it can give you permission to screw someone for money. Therefore, the fact that the production of hard core pornography is legal is *not* a first amendment issue. I don't know the basis for its legality. Maybe it isn't actually legal, but proving the link between the sex and the money is too difficult for prosecuters. Or maybe they ignore it because it doesn't contribute to the ancillary problems that prostition does.
But my hunch is that it is legal. I am very curious why.
Maybe it's allowed because hard core porn is so damn bad. You can't take it very seriously. Maybe one of our learned attorneys should check in wiht an opinion.
I guess I'm saying it backwards. I don't think that the people in the movie are screwing someone for money. They are actors. It's just one part of their job. And I've always figured that is how they get around it.
Consider the filming of Lolita. Is it legal for an adult male to be naked--or near naked--in the same room as a girl in her early teens? For that matter, is it legal for all those workers to see her naked?
Or consider a barroom brawl scene, where one stunt man hits another. Is it legal to hit each other? Is it legal for one person to accept money to hit another person? Probably not.
And so on. There are plenty of things that occur during the filming of a movie that are technically illegal, and probably all the more illegal because people are paid. Why should the line be drawn only when they start having sex?
As long as the people are producing art (of some form), it seems to me that they are paid for the act of producing art, not for doing the action that is being recorded.
Murder is excluded not because it is illegal, but along the same grounds as saying "Fire" in a crowded theater. In other words, it is a reasonable restriction on the right to free expression.
I have no idea whether this is why it is legal. But I think it holds up.
It ought to be (between competent adults) but far from true.
"Boogie Nights" had its flaws, but considering it was a rookie effort, it was very well done, and certainly was more ambitious than most of what comes down the pike. Oddly, as the movie purported to be an adaptation of John Holmes' career and downfall, the infamous coke/robbery/firecracker scene was one of the more factual of the later scenes.
While I generally like Macy's work, I thought he was the weak link in the chain, both in acting and in the extraneous nature of his character. The movie would have chugged along just fine without Little Bill, and the "comic relief" provided by his wife being Nina Hartley and screwing everybody was short-circuited by his impotent reactions to her infidelities.
But most of the rest of the cast was excellent; I was particularly impressed with Thomas Jane, brief as his part was in the film.
Re: the illegality of porn. While most cities undoubtedly have ordinances against filming porn, when you consider the nature of the beast, it becomes apparent that when law enforcement wants to bust 'em, it's more efficient to go after distribution rather than production. It would be more than a little problematic to stakeout every hair salon in the San Fernando Valley, or every house up Laurel Canyon or Melrose, trying to catch a shoot in progress. Plus it just depends on the cultural climate. No one cares about that shit in LA, but I have a feeling that porn don't git too far in, say, Oklahoma City, where apparently the cops come a-knockin' if you have the nerve to rent "The Tin Drum".
Was Thomas Jane the friend that took them to see Alfred Molina? I just realized he was the star of that wickedly bad shark movie, too.
I agree about Macy and Hartley. I couldn't see the point.
The Macy/Hartley scenes just don't feel right to me. I've seen the movie probably 3 times since I saw it in the theater, and they just don't resolve properly in my mind. More an excuse to give Hartley something to do in the movie, I think. She's much better in "Beaverly Hills Cop" and "Outrageous Foreplay". Maybe it's just a matter of taste (or lack of) on my part.
The rest of the movie, though, works for me, and even the gratuitously violent scenes toward the end ring true. I remember the Rolling Stone article chronicling Holmes' final days, and the botched robbery attempt he participated in, and he really was neck-deep in some scary shit.
L.A. (ie. the hypocritical middle-class "sensibility" thereof) does care about porn. But money talks, and the San Fernando Valley is the center of the porn industry worldwide. In fact, dollar-for-dollar porn thrives in a way that the "mainstream" cannot hope to imagine. It's far from a smattering of hair salons, guys.
Seriously, I can't imagine ever finding the time or inclination to sit through something called "The Velocity of Gary". I got something called "The Velocity of Cartman", but I don't expect it to be filmed, because film simply cannot capture the quintessence of Eric. Eric is a fluid quantity, as they say in LA -- he cannot be merely shown or duplicated. He is an essence unto himself. And isn't it endearing when folks refer to themselves in the third person? Might as well write my own reviews of how bitchin' I truly am: "Cartman truly captures the essence of the moment in 'Eric Is A Bad-Ass'. If Cartman is not nominated for an Oscar this year, then Kevin Spacey must be a swish."
And I am liking the prospective title "The Velocity of Cartman" more and more....
Movies I watched during Hurricane Floyd.
Previously reviewed: Cruel Intentions, She's All That, Jawbreaker.
Blast From the Past: If it is lunk you are looking for, go no further than Brendan Fraser. He can be goofy (George of the Jungle), doofy (Dudley DoRight), clueless, if hunky (Gods and Monsters), dorky (Encino Man), and dorky, if macho (The Mummy). Here, he is just plain adorable, as a 35 year old man mistakenly vaulted in a bomb shelter with his kooky parents(Sissy Spacek and Christopher Walken) since 1961. Now, he's out in L.A., and he's wearing a windbreaker and calling black people "Negroes."
Man, I am slapping my knee just remembering these gems.
Actually, Fraser is pretty funny. But no one else is in this lagging romantic comedy. Alicia Silverstone, as the love interest, is just a plump, bad actress with the comic timing of Jessica Savitch at the end, and the lips of Bing Crosby's daughter to boot. Dave Foley, of NewsRadio and Kids in the Hall, plays Silverstone's gay roommate. He is handicapped by three things: 1) no funny gay roommate lines; 2) a stupid gay roommate hairdo; and 3) not a very impressive turn as gay (any of his four cohorts on Kids would have been a better choice, expecially Scott Thompson).
I went to a movie today, and would like to make some comments about the previews:
Even so, it's a hugely noble effort, and more often than not quite rewarding. By all means, go and enjoy it. Just don't be swayed by the "buzz".
Because Mendes saw "Poison."
Kevin Spacey is becoming a legitimate National Treasure
More like spare change.
I caught the Haynes ref, that's why I mentioned Genet. I have to disagree, though, that Spacey is becoming yesterday's fishwife or something, speaking only in terms of his working abilities. I'm well aware of the brew-ha surrounding his recent publicity decisions, and would perhaps be inclined to characterize them (his decisions, not the brew-ha, per se) as disappointingly typical (at best), or morally questionable (at worst). Pretty good actor, even so.
And SHE is going to play Judy Garland in the movie Craig Zadan's making of "Me and My Shadows."
"What do you call it when I'm miserable and you're content?"
"Luck."
Actually though, I was referring to Kelley's newest creation, the half-hour Ally, which apparently is cobbled together from previous episodes and outtakes. For a guy that's purported to be some sort of creative genius, this sounds pretty damned lame, but Fox has never shied away from lame before. Their only decent shows are animated; the rest is overblown X-Files crap and video compilations of police chasing criminals and animals mauling people.
dir. David Russell
The movie opens with one of the more perturbing scenes I've ever seen in a war film--precisely because it was so indeterminate. A soldier sees a figure on top of a bluff. What should he do? He shouts to his friends. "Are we shooting?" But his buddies aren't really paying attention, and are oblivious to any potential danger. The soldier (Mark Wahlberg) watches him through the scope of his rifle, trying to persuade his fellow travellers to *look* at what's going on, so they can give him some advice, dammit--and then the figure moves.
This was, apparently, the first time anyone in that unit had the opportunity to fire his gun--and it was the day after the ceasefire was signed. And yet, that question--"Are we shooting?" Was he even authorized to shoot? Was the soldier trying to surrender? Does anyone care? Not the soldiers--they were pumped because they had finally seen a dead person.
Welcome to the Desert Storm film era; while Three Kings is not the first movie to use it as a backdrop (that honor goes to Courage Under Fire), it is the first that could only be made within the framework of the Gulf War. It is also the first movie to really address warfare as it exists in the post-Viet Nam era. As such, it may actually escape notice as a war film at all. Which is too bad, given that it is one of the best war movies made in the past 30 years--certainly better than Saving Private Ryan, whose brilliant beginning and unforgettable emotional impact barely covered up a host of serious problems.
The story alone is "high concept": a map to the bullion in Saddam Hussein's bunker is found (I'll spare you the details) and four soldiers decide to go after the bullion and get rich. They find it easily, and that is the last part of their day that goes well. Any other details would prime you, and I really think you'll prefer going in with no knowledge of the plot. But forget the trailer you've seen. This is not a heist film.
If the movie has a flaw, it is that the final third of the movie--and its ending--might be a letdown of sorts, given the unconventional beginning. But I don't think it is an unbelievable ending; I also don't think the specifics of the ending are relevant to the movie's impact. There are no easy answers provided; no sense that damage has been mended, bad acts redeemed. A subtext of Three Kings (whether deliberate or not) is that nothing is definite, nothing is sure. You do what you can at that moment in time; if anything genuinely good arises from that action, count yourself lucky. The movie draws no conclusions from its ending; it just counts itself lucky.
Most importantly, the Iraqis are given their full due. Finally--truly for the first time since Lawrence of Arabia--a movie portrays Arabs as something more than a combination of a few easily identified stereotypes. The Iraqis aren't stupid, they aren't simple, they aren't cowardly, and they aren't used. That Russell can manage all this in a movie that also creates four solid heroes is an amazing accomplishment.
The movie is stunningly photographed--I love the bleached out look, but maybe that's because I lived in the desert for so long. For four years my home was right next to a Saudi army base; they got the look of the Arab soldier exactly right. The milk truck exploding nearly caused me to shout in outrage--I spent too many years in a country where milk was a rare commodity not to be fussed by seeing it spill into the sand. There were also some lovely shots of rock and sand drifts that made me homesick.
The only showy part in the movie belongs to Spike Jonz (director of Being Malkovich), who takes what could have been an annoying hick character and does comic and emotional wonders with it. The other major characters (Mykelti Williamson, Nora Dunn as the woman who may as well be Christiane Amanpour) are nicely tuned.
A note--the two men who play the hairdresser twins acted as advisers on the film. They were part of the Iraqi resistance during the Gulf War.
Three Kings might upset you, or it might enrage you--depending on how you felt about the politics of the nice, safe, war in which we kicked Saddam's ass in the first place. But it doesn't give you any cheap morality; there is no sermonizing. It isn't an anti-war tract, either. Russell presents the reality of the war and the issues involved and demonstrates how everyone lives within that reality--not questioning it, not fighting it. Just working with it and doing their best to win out over it.
If nothing else, it kicked Tarzan out of first place on my year's best list. All reports I've read predict that it won't do well. I hope that's not true; if it is, don't let it be because you decided to wait for video.
In last year's "Ronin", director John Frankenheimer set forth a primer on film car chases, equaling Friedken's work in "The French Connection" and "To Live and Die in L.A.", and surpassing Peter Yates in "Bullitt" (though, "The Seven Ups" has the best car chase scene in film history). It gave me hope that the art was not dead.
In James Foley's The Corruptor, you can see the worst car chase in all of film, a 25 mile per hour snorefest through the alleys of NYC's Chinatown. One straight line, very low speed, back and forth, back and forth. One Adam 12 had wilder high speed pursuits.
The "chase" is indicative of Foley's ineptitude with the action genre. His principals - Mark Wahlberg and Yun Fat Chow - kill everyone in sight with handguns, loaded by their inexhaustible supply of clips. And if you are firing at Wahlberg or Chow with a machine gun, you will miss, but you will also break a lot of glass. Indeed, the opening action sequence is a shootout in a lamp and ceramic store.
This should not be surprising. Foley's better work has been in the non-action category (Glen Garry Glen Ross and After Dark, My Sweet). But all The Corruptor could hope to offer was spellbinding action sequences, given its humdrum and hackneyed script.
In a nutshell: Old vet meets young rookie, who has been assigned to Chinatown. Old vet tells young rookie, "You don't change Chinatown. It changes you." Or something like that, because Chow's English is a little rocky, so the line may come across as follow: "Ru don chanse Chintown. It chanses ru." Thereafter, we here the patented dow, dow, ding of Chinese massage music.
Chow's principal strength is an ability to make his eyes go all crazy just before he's about to shoot a bunch of guys. Wahlberg, who can be effective when leashed very tight, merely sleepwalks through this disaster.
Kelley is formatting ALLY for better sales in syndication; I read where he said it's easier to sell a 30 minute show. So the guy has his eye on the bottom line. Good business move...
You've left me with pretty much nothing left to say about Three Kings except that I really enjoyed it.
I didn't like it better than Sixth Sense which is still #1 for the year for me, but it easily ranks second.
I gather it's not a movie version of Baudrillard's "The Gulf War Did Not Take Place" (Indiana University Press, 1995)
Yes, I suppose it's a great business move, but this guy is supposed to be some sort of creative whiz. I'll have to find the specific link for you, but HoleCity had some scathing criticism recently about this gimmick Kelley's trying to run up the flagpole.
Doesn't really matter to me all that much, since I can't stand the show in the first place, but I've read a few things in the paper about it as well, and it just sounds like an incredibly lame idea. Either that, or it bespeaks just how much of the show is fluff and chaff in the first place, that it can be "reformatted" to half its length.
I totally agree with you that it is a lame deal for the viewer; I just meant Kelley will make a ton off it and that's a smart move for him. Though how much money does this guy need, anyhow? He saves a fortune on haircuts with that Flo-Bee thing he obviously uses on his hair.
I also saw part of "Summertime" with Katharine Hepburn on tv. Set in Venice at a time when I assume most Americans had no real sense of the city. David Lean, the director, made sure we knew we were in Venice.
Also saw "Desk Set" with Spencer Tracey. Mid-50s flick that ends on a bit of sci-fi about "electronic brains" (computers) and how they threaten people in the workplace. But mostly an excuse for Hepburn and Tracey to banter and flirt. Gil Young and Joan Blondell are in smaller roles.
Made me realize how much I like Hepburn, affected though she may be. So smart, and damn independent, and obviously not going to change much. She presents a loneliness that isn't pathetic.
Desk Set is not just a mid-fifties flick, either. It is generally considered the best of the Hepburn/Tracy movies--sterling cast and a great script. Fantastic moments include:
And if that's not enough, it contains the first portrayal of the havoc wreaked by a computer bug, and the first on-screen reference to Big Blue.
Wonderful movie. Everyone should check it out.
Was it common knowledge at the time the movie was made/released that Hepburn and Tracy were in fact a long time "number?"
No, Desk Set is a witty romance set against a backdrop that is a beautifully drawn and illustrative time capsule:
It displays something very close to the reality experienced by working women at that time. They might be a bit lonely, but they know how to have fun. While they might like to be married, they still think of their job as a career, not just a placeholder. Bunny is used by Mike Cutler (Gig Young)--she's the brains who double checks everything he does--and the movie very quietly indicates the fact that Bunny would do a better job than he would. Subtly feminist, without making a fuss.
And then the perfect illustration of corporate life. The gossip, the grapevine, the layoffs, mergers--all issues still with us. It also captures a time period in corporate life and displays it as the norm--so we can all see what has changed. We don't have Christmas parties like that any more, mergers don't give people more work these days, and computers are now a fact of life instead of a dangerous new invention. However, the movie beautifully demonstrates the reality of the computer's introduction into corporate life, rather than the more nonsensical illusions that were going about at the time. The computer was able to answer questions and process payroll. Yeah, the reference computer was a bit unlikely, but well within norms.
And Richard Sumner is (tada!) a consultant!
No, the Ephron's (Nora's parents) script isn't dated--any more than other classic movies that portray a time past. A movie is dated when its plot or emotional impact relies on an issue or situation that is no longer timely. That's not true in Desk Set.
A clarification about their best movies: Desk Set is one of the three best, not the undisputed best. Adam's Rib and State of the Union are the other two.
But so incredibly visual and stunning and fluid. I particularly enjoyed Albert Finney's blazing away to the sounds of "Danny Boy."
And while I've never been much a fan of Gabriel Byrne (I didn't dislike him, just never thought much of his, and no, I haven't seen "The Usual Suspects"), it was hard to keep one's eyes off him. He smoldered, too smart for just about everybody -- his gang, his girl and his enemies (and he pissed off all three).
Byrne's character is the tough guy icon. Punched and punched again by just about everybody, including the dame, not to mention a particularly nasty thug called the Dane. Slightly manic (never sleeps). Knows too much, and seems to thrive on losing bets and playing by the rules.
Wasn't Rask going to pick this for frayfest? Wish we had gotten to it.
My all time favorite Coen Brothers movie, followed by Fargo, Blood Simple and maybe the one where John Goodman is a devil in a run-down Hollywood Hotel. I hated Raising Arizona, but that maybe because of Nicholas Cage (who I only liked in that opera flick with Cher and in Guarding Tess). Never saw Big Lebowski.
The reason I doubled MC up with the Third Man, is that both have similar themes of loyalty and double-cross, with honor becoming more important than love.
Miller's Crossing also references Third Man as Vera walks past Tom at the funeral (an acknowledgement to the thematic similarities, I am sure).
Very glad you liked it. I have been championing the film for years. Originally very tentatively, since I didn't think anyone else liked it, but I have seen fans come out of the woodwork. A few months ago, at Salon, I made the comment that it was better than Goodfellas, was soundly ridiculed by one person, and was surprised when two or three other people leapt to the defense of the film.
"I never met anyone else who made being a sonuvabitch such a point of pride" - my favorite line.
one where John Goodman is a devil in a run-down Hollywood Hotel
Barton Fink ? Good but it lacked an overall impact. Maybe I will see it again sometime soon.
"I want a writer who can give me that "Barton Fink" feeling. And since you're Barton Fink, I figure you've got it in spades!"
Though how much money does [David Kelley] need, anyhow? He saves a fortune on haircuts with that Flo-Bee thing he obviously uses on his hair.
He's got Michelle Pfeiffer at home, he can cut his own hair with a steak knife and comb it with a pork chop if he wants. Maybe he needs all that dough to keep her really, really happy. Better safe than sorry.
Glenda (#773):
Really, you hated "Raising Arizona"? I love that movie. Well, if you hated RA, then you'd probably really hate "The Big Lebowski". A waste of 2 hours, imho.
I'm not much of a Cage fan either, but he was near-perfect in "Raising Arizona". That's a great scene where Goodman and his brother forget the baby. I really couldn't pick a favorite. Probably a toss-up between the cops chasing Cage all over town (through the house and the supermarket), and the visit from Frances McDormand and her husband and umpteen kids.
The scariest part about "Raising Arizona"? People like that actually exist.
Proudnerd:
Right on the money wrt "Big Lebowski". Bridges' performance is wasted on this film; it runs out of steam before the halfway mark. I nearly gave up on it altogether during the dream sequence, but occasionally I'm a masochist at heart, so I stuck with it.
Further examples of my masochism: I sat through "The Thin Red Line" a couple months ago, and I kept thinking it was eventually going to get interesting. It very nearly did, toward the end. There's three hours of my life I'll never get back.
The film made me laugh...hard.
I like early Cage, especially "Vampire's Kiss." The light touch he showed in "Moonstruck" hasn't been in evidence much lately. Haven't seen "Bringing Out the Dead." The "buzz" on it is bad, though locally that may be more a reflection of the sudden Anti-Ovitz sentiment that has swept Hollywood and carried all things Scorsese in its wake.
How could you possibly have time for 500 channels? With all those choices, I think I'd react like Robin Williams in Moscow On the Hudson when he had to buy coffee at the supermarket.
It was a disturbing film - mostly because of Goodman's character, who resembles someone who used to be close to me Too Much. And because of lost life, lost living. Otherwise, chillin and suckin on a doob/slooshing down some white russians, it was funny. (Ben Gaz's charac was spooky too; and then I saw a portion of Buff 66 and that really was freaky, back-to-back).
Ramboling aolong.
re: The West Wing - it's recognizable soap, nighttime soap, but I gotta admit it's hot, it's now, it's rapidfire. They gotta be getting in more dialogue than most in a shorter time. In that sense, it resembles - obviously - SportsNight (duh) - but I found it, tonight, reminding me of a Mamet play. I dunno, there must have been an 'uh' and a repetition of a preposition or somethin.
"And I really - uh, I really - knew it was you. I mean, I knew it was you and when I knew - uh, when I knew it was you, I could not but recognize that fact."
Or somethin.
Miller's Crossing holds up better, basically.
Yeah, he's gone the gamut, to self-parody, even, but I like him. He fares poorly in 'sensitive' films, but I'm not sure why. I like to believe I'm open to 'different' performances by people. And I do believe he can act.
Perhaps with some age....
I like Crouse - a Mamet ex, too....
G'night.
Sleep tight, y'all.
I'm watching L&O now. Lindsay was that spoooky bad shrink from that ep seven or eight years ago. John Hurt has been on at least one other episode. Definitely a repeat offenders night.
I already like "West Wing", mainly for Sheen, though Spencer is always very good. He was a jackass in "LA Law" though, so it'll take a while before I like him. Very good though. Even Rob Lowe is good in it, but that crooked-ass smirk of his is a bit distracting. John Amos was very good in tonight's episode.
Picky picky picky....
I was meaning to ask you if you had watched L&O last week. Like last season, very good....until the end. Blown by yet another goofy ending. And I don't like the new guy, especially in the interrogations he's done so far.
Agreed about the ending--it's John Heard, btw, not Hurt. I always get those two names confused, dammit.
I liked Spencer at the beginning of his stint on LA Law, but that was only the first year. After that, the show went downhill.
Rob Lowe has done a nice bit of career rehab. It's funny to watch the one guy speaking without a Russian accent.
Actually I meant last week's L&O, I haven't watched tonight's yet (I taped it for later, so I didn't have to go back and forth between TV and computer).
Yeah, the new guy's body lingo is odd. He's OK in the scenes where he and Orbach are out gathering evidence, but he turns it up a notch too far in the interrogation scenes he does.
I gave up on LA Law after the first year or so too. I think most everyone did. But I didn't like Spencer on the show. Not just his character, but his acting.
Are you watching SVU at all?
"SVU"?
I don't even remember the bounty hunter ep ending. From what I've read of last week, the evil kid got away with murder?
Yeah, in last week's L&O, "the evil kid got away with murder", as you say. It was the reasoning by the judge, in the end, that was lame.
The kid had lured a little boy to a construction yard and caved his head in with a rock, lied to the cops and framed someone else for the crime, got her older friend to go along with the lie, kept lying to the cops under questioning, and was cool as a cucmber when Skoda tried to pick her brain. Yet the judge bought the argument that she had no clue as to what she was doing, and didn't need serious psychiatric help. Ridiculous.
I dunno. The real pisser of it all is that dumb writing like that ultimately wastes some of the most consistently great acting on TV today.
Although this seems to be the year for judges, now that I think of it. The judge this week had a big part, too.
And in real life, the kid they were considering as an applicant would have never spoken up and said where a raging president's glasses are located. In real life, a raging president would have been barking like that (or worse). And he would never have apologized so easily. That kid in that job was only going to see more of the same or worse.
The lighting and camera work makes it all too special, too holy, unlike say Sports Center. I don't really believe people work there, and I was hoping it was give us a sense of that. Instead, in all that musy light, we get cites from Roman history.
But I only saw the last half. Maybe next week, I'll remember to tune in.
I'm watching the West Wing but am not that crazy about it at all...I find many of the characters to be cartoonish but I like the lady press secretary or whatever she is. (You can see how impressed I am..) Rob Lowe is doing a fair job but his character is written as a bozo; what person working for the POTUS is going to put himself at risk of scandal by going back to the hooker he slept with accidently? Give me a break.....
Saw Sports Night opener this week and was dismayed they have decided to turn Felicity Huffman into Heather Locklear...she has been given hair extensions and new "breastage". Looking forward to next week, tho, when her real life husband William H. Macy joins the cast or at least makes a guest shot.
Best: Judging Amy
Worst: L&O Special Victims Unit
"what person working for the POTUS is going to put himself at risk of scandal by going back to the hooker he slept with accidentaly?"
Dick Morris.
That, Judith, is believable to me. I mean, who knew an intern would flip her dress to show a president her thong underwear?
As far as the high-priced hooker, well, in DC that terms covers a multitude.
May wait til I see all of the new ones...isn't there one premiering tonight? Wasteland? High points on the bravery of the title, anyhow. Our local TV critic used a great line in describing it, using the words "existential gulf" and "hollow at its core" in one sentence. Nice allusion to TS Eliot....or Newton Minnow.
Satire is very difficult in this day when reality is so potent.
I, too, was bummed by Huffman's new look. I did not know she was married to Macy.
L&O last night was good. I hear last week's was spooky. I liked the season opener.
The lady press secretary was on one of the finer L&Os--the one about the Russian mob, where she made baby food. The Toby character always plays Russians--as I said, it was weird seeing him speak with an American accent.
Elliot,
It remains to be seen whether SVU is an excellent show, but it is simply not possible for it to be the worst show on TV. I've watched three episodes--it is unpleasant and gruesome, but well acted. I think its worst problem is the subject matter. It would be unrealistic to show too many men suffering sexual assaults, but as it is, it is a show about rape victims.
I don't mind waiting. Of course, I'll probably never see all of the new shows, just the ones that appear reasonably interesting and come on between 8 and 10. The two I listed are among those that I've seen already.
An exhaustive list of what I've seen so far:
N.B. The above review comes with a caveat. Prior to seeing Three Kings, I was in a horrible, self-involved, mood with a Britney Spears' song going beyond its bubble-gum wrappings to a part of my psyche that it had no earthly right to go. I really needed to get into a movie and Three Kings was there. Buyer beware.
CalGal,
Yes, I saw your review and agree with everything you said. I especially liked your discussion of Clooney's performance, which is one of those which people tend not to appreciate. He really brings a commanding presence to the movie and, as you said, really ties things together. The very brief scene when he shoots the sniper near the end really displays his skill. The anger and frustration in his face at that moment is perfect to the scene. I can't say more b'c it would be a bit of a spoiler, but I thought to myself: WOW Clooney's pretty talented.
Oh yeah, I also agree with you when you say that some people will probably criticize the ending, but, like you said, it is entirely believable.
That is the saving grace of the ending. Highlight for more:
Happy endings are always associated with implausible resolutions--or you'll hear the accusation of it being too "neat". But in this case, the villagers going back home would have been every bit as "neat" a resolution--just a negative one. And in fact, I think Mykelti Williamson seemed a tad too nonchalant with those cameras there. But it made sense to assume that he was so focused on punishing Clooney that he wasn't thinking straight. It was entirely believable that that the MP would free Wahlberg, and it made sense that Williamson would view the gold as a tradeoff that would allow him to do the right thing while saving his ass.
I was discussing this at TableTalk, and some people seem to see it as a morality play. Can't see how. That is one of its charms--no tracts, no pieties, no bullshit.
"no tracts, no pieties, no bullshit."
I couldn't agree more. The movie makes you want the soldiers, and the U.S. Army as a whole, to dive in and save the Iraqui rebels. At the same time you just want the soldiers to get the fuck out of there and back to their families. I think it would be somehow smug to interpret Three Kings as if it said anything profound or definitive about war. It is just damn confusing message-wise, which will, I think, prove to be its most lasting strength.
"no tracts, no pieties, no bullshit."
I couldn't agree more. The movie makes you want the soldiers, and the U.S. Army as a whole, to dive in and save the Iraqui rebels. At the same time you just want the soldiers to get the fuck out of there and back to their families. I think it would be somehow smug to interpret Three Kings as if it said anything profound or definitive about war. It is just damn confusing message-wise, which will, I think, prove to be its most lasting strength.
Also the scene before the showdown with the Iraquis, when he and the soldier were facing off. Very well done.
Highlight for more.
Contrast Clooney's performance in Three Kings with his charming performance in Out of Sight and you have an actor worth watching.
Anyone catch the new trailers for Oliver Stone and Martin Scorsese's new movies? Stone has what looks to be a slick football movie coming out and Scorsese has an ambulance movie with Nicolas Cage on the way. Judging by the trailers, both seem like conventional and thus odd choices for two usually unique directors. Actually, this conventionality piques my interest in both movies -- like Altman doing John Grisham.
I've actually always thought Clooney was worth watching. He had some habits to unlearn, but he has already been intensely likeable, with a great deal of charisma. In fact, I think he got solid reviews personally in all his movies except that Batman abomination.
Yes, I saw the Oliver Stone trailer. Odd. I'm pulling for it mainly because I like Quaid. But I don't have a lot of hope. Interesting note: Clooney only got the Three Kings part because Cage turned it down to make this ambulance film. The trailer doesn't look encouraging.
I haven't read any Stephen King, so I don't know what The Green Mile is about. The other Pacino movie--the 60 minutes one--looks interesting.
Finishing up the trailer review, I'll say again--what the hell is Dustin Hoffman doing in a Joan of Arc movie?
Haven't seen the Hoffman trailer, but that definitely sounds odd. Cage looks like he is going to just go through all of the standard Cage mannerisms in that new Scorsese flick, but it is Scorsese so I have hope for it. I can't wait until theother Pacino movie comes out. It is directed by Michael Mann who did Heat, which also starred Pacino -- and which is superb imo. Mann also did a Hannibal Lecter movie that nobody has seen, but which is also very good.
Are you thinking of Manhunter?
Yep, Manhunter. I remember it being quite good. Heat just surprised the hell out of me. I had pegged it as a brainless shoot-em-up movie, but it really is very good.
Yes, I think he meant that it had more brains than he expected it to have.
I didn't care for it all that much--the female characters were uniformly dreadful, which always makes me cranky. I thought Studi was good. I remember the actual bank robbery/shootout it was based on, so that part was interesting.
True, Heat is no brain puzzler, but I thought much of the characterization was quite adeptly handled imo. Yes, much of that characterization was superfluous, but it let De Niro and Pacino flex their thespian muscles. Like i said, I had low expectations going in. The movie turned out to have a look and some style and that surprised me. Also, the shootout kicked some ass.
err, when I say kicked some ass, I mean it was well directed. I didn't refresh before posting. I wouldn't want anyone to think that i thought the real life shooting kicked ass.
There's.....someoneonthewing. Some...(tortured facial expression)...thing!
Cal:
"The Green Mile" was originally released by King as a serial novel in six installments, one every month or so. It deals with a man on death row with some peculiar powers, who may or may not be falsely convicted (take a wild guess as to which). Still, it was a pretty good read, but I do confess to liking most of King's stuff (King, along with Vonnegut, is about the only fiction I read these days).
I knew soon as I read it someone would try to make a movie out of it, and I actually think it would work well as a movie.
As for Heat, very dull, very silly, very emotive, Pacino was especially sloppy, but, that said, the entire bank robbery scene ranks as one of the better action sequences in years.
But it was still a damn fine bank robbery sequence.
I liked Groundhog's Day, and it may be among my favorite comedies of the 90's, but I'm voting for The Shawshank Redemption.
Best film of the 90s?
Goodfellas
The first scene, I don't recall. I think they rammed a truck, but it seemed pedestrian.
Overrated pig of a movie. I remember the sand dunes at the beginning cause they looked like a woman's bod. After that, who remembers much except Fiennes pathetic blubbering over a well-preserved dead body? Starvation and dehydration appears to be the way to go if'n you wanna leave a good-lookin corpse, Jimmy Dean.
Goodfellas was 90s? Excellent film. The bodies fallin out of the garbage truck to the strains of "Layla" was muy bueno.
Groundhog Day goes on the list of the best of the 90s. Goodfellas, too. Shawshank is not anywhere near it, for all the good stuff in it.
Schindler's List would probably have to be on it somewhere.
Hmm. I shall have to chew on this for a while.
Schindler's List
Miller's Crossing
Pulp Fiction
Goodfellas
JFK
Lone Star
Silence of the Lambs
The Player
LA Confidential
Shakespeare in Love
Unforgiven
The Sweet Hereafter
Groundhog Day
Get Shorty
Menace II Society
Swingers
Fargo
Out of Sight
The Matrix
Grosse Pointe Blank
I'll probably come up with a "Top 100" before the end of the year.
I like all your picks. Never saw Menace, tho.
The next five, just because I feel guilty for excluding them...
Toy Story
Beauty and the Beast
Trainspotting
Clerks
Dark City
"Nouvelle Vague"
"The Voice of the Moon"
"Poison"
"The Making of 'Monsters'"
"Edward II"
"The Long Day Closes"
"Silverlake Life: The View From Here"
"Short Cuts"
"Caro Diario"
"Casino"
"Mars Attacks!"
"Love's Debris"
"Haut/Bas/Fragile"
"Happy Together"
"Bulworth"
"Love is the Devil"
"Les Amants du Pont-Neuf" (aka."Lovers on the Bridge")
"Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train"
I am very impressed so far with what I have seen with the upgrade, but I do wish that the programming would come sooner. The programming might be available in November..at the earliest.
"My Own Private Erich Von Stroheim," eh Judith?
JFK
Pulp Fiction
Groundhog Day
Dances With Wolves
The Shawshank Redemption
L.A. Confidential
Ed Wood
Goodfellas
Silence of the Lambs
Farewell My Concubine
Also, 1994 was easily the best year of this decade for movies
The one surprise for the nineties is how highly they both rated Crumb, a movie that I haven't even heard of, let alone seen.
I couldn't provide anything resembling a definitive "best of" list for the '90s, but I can tell you the 10 I personally liked the most (in no particular order):
Goodfellas
There's Something About Mary
Big Night
The Panama Deception
Pulp Fiction
South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut
When We Were Kings
The War Room
JFK
Bulworth
Schindlers List
Sling Blade
Forrest Gump
Europa Europa
Silence of the Lambs
Unforgiven
Misery
Terminator 2
Twelve Monkeys
Truman Show
La Haine
The Sweet Hereafter
Usual Suspects
Groundhog Day
The Castle
Heavenly Creatures
Millers Crossing
Lone Star
The Player
The Wrong Trousers
Festen
Wes Craven's New Nightmare
Ed Wood
Drunken Master II
Fargo
My 10 favorite movies of all time, in descending order:
1. Chinatown
2. The Godfather II
3. The Godfather
4. The Right Stuff
5. The Sting
6. The Deerhunter
7. 12 Angry Men (original)
8. Caddy Shack
9. Goodfellas
10. Silence of the Lambs
My Least Favorite Movies of All Time (1 is worst)
1. Lawrence of Arabia
2. Field of Dreams
3. The Godfather III
Which one?
Klaatu barada nikto!
And I partially agree with butter on his assessment of 12 Angry Men. The film is far too didactic, I would have voted guilty, and I think the suspects' guilt matters very much in assessing the film.
But I do generally like your list. Kudos for listing Caddyshack. Wanna Fresca?
I thought your point was that it was great right-wing propaganda. Surely it must matter, in that interpretation, whether Fonda was a boob or a hero?
If, instead, you think of it as a movie in which one person used the rules to persuade 11 others to vote in a way opposite their original intention, it really doesn't matter what the actual vote involved.
Many people don't like Lawrence of Arabia. I do not understand this myself, but I quit arguing about it over 20 years ago.
Mind you, I don't hate The Right Stuff--I just put it higher in the quibble ranking than Deerhunter.
Also, The Deerhunter was the first--and remains one of the few--movies about Vietnam. Back in the 70s, it was a nearly untouchable subject. It makes sense that it would have to be fraught with symbolism--hell, it was the 70s. So I overlook the heavy-handed nonsense and focus on the characters.
In comparison, The Right Stuff takes on far less. It's a fun bubblegum movie (looking around surreptiously for Doc) and looks marvellous. And, in fact, it's not fair to either film to compare them--I just think that Deerhunter sets a higher standard and comes closer to meeting it.
Here are some over-rated turdpiles: Field of Dreams and Dances With Wolves. Sure it's a cheap shot, but isn't it safe to say any Kevin Costner vehicle pretty much sucks?
Already covered The English Patient.
Gandhi
Diner (Steve Guttenberg, Mickey Rourke, nuff said)
...
And while I'm correcting some serious bad calls, what's this deal that people get Dustin Hoffman and Al Pacino mixed up? Al Pacino can act.
dammit
I confess a fondness for The Bodyguard. There's bravery for you.
Is that bizarre? I think it's bizarre to judge a movie based on what it implies can be done, good or bad, with a legal or political institution.
CalGal in 895 more than adequately captures one of the great aspects of 12 Angry Men. (Somehow I am not surprised she would see that angle.)
Deerhunter: Actually I like it most for the non-war scenes. The wedding scene in particular is great, as is the pre-hunt scene. That weddig scene is better than home movies for depicting what just about every wedding I've ever been to is like.
The Right Stuff: Definitely not the weightiest movie ever, and I'm kind of at a loss to explain why it's one of my favorites, since I lack a DocBrown-like sentimentality for the subject. I think my favorite part is after Gus Grissom blows the hatch of his capsule.
Since posting that, I think Caddyshack is so funny, I am tempted to revise and elevate it to the top 5. Lots of great lines and characters in that movie.
What do I have against Lawrence of Arabia? It's sprawling, long, deathly boring, made me feel like a voyeur to a train wreck.
Which also makes you wonder just what the hell happened with Godfather III, which I don't find as terrible as most do, but still doesn't begin to approach the phenomenal standard the first two set.
I am so embarrassed; I had previously prided myself on always putting my toys away...alas, one dyslexic moment has shattered my record. Thanks for the remedy.
You can't be serious about Caddyshack. I've always thought Rodney Dangerfield and Chevy Chase are unfunny assholes. (Believe me, I can appreciate a funny asshole, heh-heh-heh.) I liked Animal House the first time I saw it, but it hasn't aged well.
Godfather and Godfather II are hard to compare. G I is a smaller canvas and tidy. G II is darker and bigger. One's a gigantic all-you-can-eat lasagna, the other's a good pizza. G III is a laugh riot, a failure of truly epic proportions
Stinky, do you mean the characters played by Chase and Dangerfield? I'd have to agree they're not the most likable, but they are damn funny in their delivery of good lines. Ted Knight is the best, though.
I prefer Godfather II to I because it has all those feel good elements of Godfather I (Vito's rise), but the juxtaposition of the prequel and sequel parts makes for very nice contrast.
Admittedly, I penalize Godfather III very heavily because of its predecessors. I would not hate it nearly as much as I do if it didn't belong to that series of films. That's probably not fair, but there you have it.
I also saw Silence of the Lambs in Calumet City, which happened to be the location of a home the fuzz raid toward the end. There was a great collective gasp when the location of the house was shown on the bottom of the screen, and it was believed to be the location of the killer. What were we all scared of?
Except for the ones stolen directly (literally) from Ken Loach's "Poor Cow". A strange gimmick, that. But, I am looking forward to seeing the picture for Stamp, Soderbergh notwithstanding.
But I just don't go for Adam Sandler jerk types. Especially when the movie makes them seem cool instead of stupid. I'll even go so far as to say I'm not a Groucho Marx fan. (I'll take W.C. Fields over Chaplin and the Marx Brothers.)
I'd put Spinal Tap ahead of all the comedies I've seen mentioned so far.
Scheider had a short heyday. He didn't have a chance in hell of winning the Oscar the year he was nominated; it was a very good year.
But then I had no idea that you and CalGal were so beyond good and evil, that you thrilled to the drama of ubermensch Henry Fonda imposing his will (just or unjust) by twisting the incoherencies of the slavenmorale (or whatever Nietzshe called it) of the untermensch.
I don't think that is what Spence said, though, is it? He said it is "bizarre to judge a movie based on what it implies can be done, good or bad, with a legal or political institution".
And I'm not sure what you mean in saying the "meaning of the drama depends on whether justice or injustice is done". I will assume that "meaning of the drama" means dramatic impact. In which case, I think that depends on whether Henry Fonda can get the other 11 men to change their mind.
(At some point pretty soon you're going to bring up intent, so let me state this now, for the record. Intent: Pah! I spit upon it. Phew. I feel better.)
1980 was okay. Jack Lemmon's job in China Syndrome was top-of-the-line (as most of his performances are). But that was more of a supporting role.
Pacino's a topnotch actor too, but "And Justice for All" is just avg. Sellers in "Being There"? You've got to be kidding. Yeah, I know, freak roles like that (cf Rainman) always attract the Academy's attention.
And Kramer v. Kramer (the winner?????) Somebody tell me one line Hoffman said that they remember. Anyone?
It was just a sensitive male role when sensitive males were in. Alan Alda probly won the Emmy that year too.
In contrast, Scheider *was* his film and it was a tour de force.
I can remember most of what Hoffman said, but that's because I read the book. It is a very good performance, actually, even if it is in a "message" movie.
Yes, I consider Sellar's work in the "Rain Man" category; nonetheless, it was good stuff.
I love All That Jazz--of the five movies the actors were nominated from, I watch it more than any except China Syndrome (which is one of my favorite movies of all time, so that is stiff competition). I'm not sure if I am convinced that Scheider is the only one who could have done the job, there. But he was very good.
I don't want to make it sound like those were the best five performances from that year, only that all five nominations were solid--none were wasted.
I think Jaws is given a great deal of credit. Still, I might hang around in the wrong circles.
I think I am fighting a losing battle. Never has a film I have hated this much gotten such buzz. I might be boycotting the Oscar telecast this year for this time I remember.
So what we have is that of a dolt making silly arguments which twist the meaning of reasonable doubt to 11 idiots. Superficially, this has about the same dramatic impact of 11 year old Darth Vader accidentally pushing buttons on his space scooter and defeating the imperial forces. However, in the context of the self-congratulatory tone of the movie, it produces for me a powerful loathing of the Henry Fonda character and the self-righteous liberals he represents.
Now, you could take the traditional view. Or you could take the view that Fonda's arguments were false, but ingenious in that a chimp couldn't see through them. In either case, the film would have dramatic impact; however, the nature of that dramatic impact would be different than the dramatic impact for me.
"Raskolnikov, A neighbor couple found the movie so upsetting that they advised my wife and me not to see "American Beauty." Now that I've seen it I wonder whether seeing too much of themselves on the screen made them uncomfortable. What about you?"
There was only one thing that I really recognized. Bening and the Real Estate King were dead-on parodies of the disciples of Zig Zigler, Dale Carnegie, and their ilk. I used to have put up with that "See you at the top" bullshit constantly when I was a sales manager many years ago. But aside from that, the film missed its satiric target, which is a small part of the reason I disliked the film. Hell, "Suburbia" completely missed its target too, but while I thought it was a bad, pretentious misfire from Richard Linklater, I didn't "hate" it.
What really got under my skin were three things: 1) Lester's *route* to redemption. The film basically portrayed his selfish foray into adolescent hedonism as the route to redemption. The "mid-life crisis" as a spiritual awakening. 2) the utter contrivance of the climax of the film. 3) the complete bogusness of Lester's philosophical insights at the end of the film. Not that "appreciating beauty" is a bad thing, but that "appreciating beauty" had absolutely nothing to do with his redemption.
I doubt I would be quite as pissed at the film if it wasn't getting such great reviews and word of mouth. I have always thought that seeing a film you dislike exalted as great art easily turns dislike to hatred.
By the way, there are quite a few sites which do that "collaborative filtering" thing. I haven't used it for awhile, but I did try firefly quite a bit when it first came out. Has this U of M prof made any great technical strides?
That's simply not true. The fact is, the woman might have been nearsighted. The old man couldn't have made the door in the time he said he did. It's unlikely the old man could have heard the boy's voice, given that the L train was going by.
So to decide the boy was clearly guilty--based on the information provided in the movie--is nonsense. There was nothing provided that allowed for a definitive assessment either way.
That doesn't mean the boy was innocent. But the eye-witness reports were the reason the jurors had decided to convict. So when they gave these as reasons--and, in fact, they believed in the guilt because of these reasons--it provided something for Fonda to knock down.
Looked at regardless of the situation (jury verdict), this is a fascinating study of group behavior. Looked at within the situation, it becomes a fascinating display of how little it takes someone to make up their mind one way or the other. In fact, the jurors had nothing other than the reasons mentioned in order to support their belief. Was it enough? Not if Fonda could knock it down. And he did, indeed, knock them down. I'm excluding the knife nonsense in all its various forms, which was dramatically interesting, but pretty much besides the point to the conviction.
All of this works without reference to any of the political stuff that apparently activates your outrage.
It's only when you throw in the details that it becomes an issue of liberal vs. conservative (despite the fact, of course, that Fonda was a noted Hollywood conservative). The people were making judgments based on the crime aspect, the kid's skin color, and so on.
If the testimony had been that a) So-and-so was well-used to handling switchblades, and that b) he stabbed somebody with one from above rather than from below -- then that would indeed be worth, IMHO, at least 5 probability points in favor of acquittal.
My beef with 12AM isn't that it produced an acquittal, in the face of overwhelming evidence for conviction -- but that it stacked the deck by providing overwhelming evidence for acquittal that just wouldn't be there, in most cases.
The "knife related stuff" was:
In all these cases, I think they were interesting arguments, but not enough to sway the jurors' minds--the last one comes closest, in my view. But the dramatic stabbing conversation, and the scene where Fonda tosses down the knife with the identical handle, are good drama.
(In fact, the purchased knife with the same handle is the one thing that really distracts, since you can't help but wonder how kosher that purchase was.)
Would they have been compelling in the face of unshakeable eye-witness testimony? Probably not.
Yes, point #1 in that list was the only one I remembered. However,
"Would they have been compelling in the face of unshakeable eye-witness testimony? Probably not."
But, within the context of the flick, that testimony was not unshakeable.
As for the purchase --who cares, for the purposes of the defendant's guilt or innocence, how kosher it was? (But it does establish that jurors weren't sequestered during the trial, FWIW.)
Well, yes. That was my point. The knife testimony was not needed. If the eyewitness testimony was solid, it wasn't enough. If the eyewitness testimony was shakeable, it wasn't needed.
The only reason I sigh about the knife purchase is because Niner or TS comes in and starts squawking about uppity juries.
I liked Deerhunter, too. That mentally violent Russian Roulette scene alarmed me. It was entirely jarring to see the movie at such a tender age. Since then I've become rather desensitized to films depicting vicious cruelty. The shock value has fizzled.
Favorites from the 90's (in no particular order):
Saving Private Ryan
Elizabeth
Good Will Hunting
Jackie Brown
Lone Star
Matrix
Blade
Pulp Fiction
Dead Man Walking
Apollo 13
Reality Bites
Forrest Gump
The Shawshank Redemption
Schindler's List
The Piano
Rainman
Howards End
Thelma & Louise
Terminator
Aliens
Awakenings
Lethal Weapon
Ethan Fromme
Bram Stoker's Dracula
Trainspotting
Dances With Wolves
Get Shorty
S'more favorites earlier than the 90's (not complete):
Empire of The Sun
Driving Miss Daisy
Mississippi Burning
Platoon
Amadeus
The Killing Fields
Terms of Endearment
E.T.
An Officer and a Gentleman
Coal Miner's Daughter
Being There
Bill
Star Wars
Dirty Harry
whoops - damned, that is...
I just liked the arc of the two stories--Forrest and Jenny taking different paths through the 60s and 70s and meeting up periodically. I liked the bond between the two, and I thought a few scenes were really well done. I remain a sucker for the scene at the Memorial.
No, it didn't deserve best movie--and while I think Hanks deserves more credit than he is generally given, it was by no means the best performance that year. But if you take away all the pious shit that people attached to it, and remove all the hype, what remains is definitely worth a look.
OTOH, it could be that I'm completely missing the lectures that are aggravating everyone else.
"love him" but can't spell his name.
Hate was probably too strong a word to use, but I disliked what I felt was the overt manipulation and political subtext. Sure, there were some fun bits and I thought Hanks did a good job, but in general it left me uncomfortable. Having said that, I probably wasn't in the best frame of mind to watch it anyway - I'd just lost a fight with my husband over whether to watch the movie or what promised to be an excellent British play.
My objection to Forrest Gump is that it forces down people's throats a very popular and very wrong view of the history of the baby boom generation. Is that what you meant by the "pious shit"?
As to Shawshank, I found it the most satisfying movie I had seen in a long while. There is such perfection as to the fates of the principals and the paths the movie takes to get there that simply is not seen in any other movie of the 90's. While Robbins and Freeman's acting is very good, that is not what distinguishes it. It is the story. Redemption is the perfect word for it.
I don't think it forces anything down one's throat. But then--as the discussion on 12 Angry Men might have shown--I don't fuss much over the little stuff. I didn't view it as a history of the baby boom generation, rather than two paths through the extremes of a particular time.
I certainly didn't see any history portrayed incorrectly.
As for Shawshank--I saw no redemption. It was an enjoyable story, though.
"I didn't view it [Forrest Gump] as the history of the baby boon generation."
You may be unique.
Now, its certainly true that there was more evidence against Jack Ruby in his murder trial, but I would have voted to convict based on the circumstantial evidence OR the lady's testimony OR the old man's. But all three? Anybody who wouldn't convict was just shirking their responsibilities as a citizen. Of course, the smug self-righteousness with which this shirking is presented makes for powerful dramatic impact.
Incidentally, Henry Fonda's politics were somewhere between George McGovern's and his crazy kids'.
The first half of this film is pretty audacious and playful. The ploy - stolen directly from "Kelly's Heroes" - has four Gulf War servicemen scheming to steal gold previously stolen by Saddam Hussein from the Kuwaitis. Sharp and funny insights into the culture clash of Americans and Iraqis dominate the opening. Coupled with eye-catching camera work, taut banter, and clever forays into fantasy (the recreation of the route of a bullet into the human body is noteworthy), the films hurtles at break-neak speed, and you never
really notice the complete lack of plot or character. It plays like
back-to-back dazzling music videos. Best, it embarks on setting down a mentality for the Gulf War veteran.
The problems ensue when Three Kings moves from the witty to the
message-laden. It becomes clear that the film is interested in being more than a highly literate black comedy with the Gulf War as backdrop. Soon, faced with the horrors of war (the general reality that wars kill civilians and specifically, the rock-and-a-hard-place of Iraqis who rose against Saddam without U.S. support), our heroes become changed men. Of course, up until this point, they are merely cleverly written cardboard cut-outs, so it is impossible to determine from where or what they have changed. But what the hell, if the film remains as well-paced and written up to this point, fine, I thought. Make them the cavalry.
lives of Iraqis, whom were slaughtered to the tune of tens of thousands during the war. Of course, in the film's zippier moments, Arab extras are dispatched by the bushel, but the really important music is reserved for the near- deaths or deaths of white men. Still, the film's first half is damn near flawless, and you should be used to the amateur moralizing and concocted big finish.
Moreover, the quartet -George Clooney, Mark Wahlberg, Ice Cube and Spike Jones - are all quite good, as are the people given the thankless Arab roles.
Hated Forrest Gump. Hated it, hated it, hated it. Hated it MORE than I hated Titanic, and I'm on record (along with Webfeet) as being the most Titanic-hatingest person around.
I think David Kelley needs to re-think his priorities: Ally or The Practice ? That show last night could've starred Glen Close and Michael Douglas; I think Close would've looked better than George in the nun get-up. What pap....
I agree with you. Titanic was merely a movie I had seen at least 2 dozen times before filming started. Forrest Gump is a massive distortion of history to make baby boomers think of themselves as the greatest generation that ever walked the planet.
Oh, I disagree--so much so that I think you completely misread the movie.
I don't think the movie was informing the audience that the war was about oil. I think the movie was portraying the rage of the Iraqi interrogator, as well as the general cluelessness of Wahlberg. I think the movie took it for granted that the audience understood that it was about oil.
I don't know where you get the impression of attention paid to the US vs. Arab deaths. It would have been unrealistic to show any huge amount of Americans dying, whereas the simple truth was that many Iraqis were killed. However, the death that was granted the most visual and emotional impact was the death of the Iraqi woman. How you could decide that she was one of the several dispatched by a bushelful defeats me. In fact, she was unknown other than by her death. It was the event that drove the plot from that point forward. And she wasn't forgotten, either.
The other character died off-screen, and very little mourning time was allotted him--even by his buddy. No sorrowful music, either. Just a body to be lugged along.
Neither of the two major Arab roles were thankless. The very portrayal of an Arab as a b-school graduate is more complexity than is granted most portrayals of Arabs on film. Nor were either of the two major parts given to moralizing about the evils of the U.S.
If you saw the movie as a morality play, I would argue that you slapped your preconceptions onto it. I can see very little in the movie that supports that interpretation.
And, as TJ and I discussed earlier, the feel-good ending is every bit as believable as any bad ending you could construct out of it. Which would be done only to please purists who demand unhappy endings.
"I don't think the movie was informing the audience that the war was about oil. I think the movie was portraying the rage of the Iraqi interrogator, as well as the general cluelessness of Wahlberg. I think the movie took it for granted that the audience understood that it was about oil."
I guess I must have misread when the captors forced Marky Mark to suck oil after he stated that the war was about the liberation of Kuwait.
"I don't know where you get the impression of attention paid to the US vs. Arab deaths. It would have been unrealistic to show any huge amount of Americans dying, whereas the simple truth was that many Iraqis were killed. However, the death that was granted the most visual and emotional impact was the death of the Iraqi woman. How you could decide that she was one of the several dispatched by a bushelful defeats me. In fact, she was unknown other than by her death. It was the event that drove the plot from that point forward. And she wasn't forgotten, either."
I did not see the woman who was executed carted around as if her remains were that of the Ayatollah. This honor was given the white man.
"The other character died off-screen, and very little mourning time was allotted him--even by his buddy. No sorrowful music, either. Just a body to be lugged along."
Needless to say, we gleaned different import.
"Neither of the two major Arab roles were thankless. The very portrayal of an Arab as a b-school graduate is more complexity than is granted most portrayals of Arabs on film. Nor were either of the two major parts given to moralizing about the evils of the U.S."
Standard side-kick brown men. Men of strong, silent repose.
"No, I saw no character undergo a conversion, learn any lessons about war or morality. The four soldiers were all fundamentally decent from the start. Clooney was the moral force of the movie if anyone was, and he didn't have any surprises in store. The only one that did have a shock of sorts was Wahlberg, who was a gentle soul from the beginning of the movie. He just saw the enemy face up. No big deal there."
From my vantage point, the moral conversion was attempted with sledgehammer style. Form robbers, to rescuers/robbers, to rescuers, all based upon life lessons given by a harsh land and a barbaric people.
"And, as TJ and I discussed earlier, the feel-good ending is every bit as believable as any bad ending you could construct out of it. Which would be done only to please purists who demand unhappy endings."
Given the second half of the film, the feel-good ending was laugh-ou-loud, but I agree that most any ending would have been slight.
The fact that the woman may have been nearsighted--in fact was very probably nearsighted--called her evidence into question. And there were two challenges to the old man's testimony--the time it took and the fact that he could not really have heard the kid's voice if an L train was passing by. Had the time been close, I don't think it would have been a factor. It wasn't even close--three times as long, as I recall.
There is probably an interesting movie to be made of a situation where a person coerces a group into accepting his version of reality without any support from the facts. It just wasn't the movie that was made. In this movie, the facts as presented allowed for more than one interpretation.
What is fascinating, of course, is this: why didn't Lee J. Cobb hold firm? He could have. He could have forced a hung jury. The movie presents it as his sudden realization that he had "baggage" about his son. But that doesn't explain the Begley character, and the Klugman character.
That is what I love about the movie--that in the end, none of the ones who were committed to his guilt were sure enough to hold their conviction without others. Fonda, on the other hand, withstood far more contempt and scorn than any other character had to deal with. Had Cobb or the others had the same conviction, the jury would have hung. But they didn't.
Most people don't think things through, come to their opinions in a gut level judgment, are not willing to withstand contempt for their beliefs and are, as a result, far more vulnerable to someone who comes along and asks them to justify their beliefs or opinions. In other words, the average person--and group--is at risk for having a Fonda come along and completely derail them.
Apparently so, if you thought that this act had any symbolism that the audience was supposed to take from it. It was a torture scene. The Iraqi would, fairly naturally, show any asshole American soldier who was silly enough to tell him that the war was about liberating Kuwait what it was really about. The elegance of the torture method was what mattered--the Iraqi was intelligent and able to demonstrate his anger by a fitting torture method for some young little shit who thought he knew what the war was about.
I did not see the woman who was executed carted around as if her remains were that of the Ayatollah. This honor was given the white man.
Well, the woman's death initiated events. The white man's death was at the end of the journey. The only thing left was to get across the border. He was the only person of the group who died in the encounter. It would hardly have been practical to lug the woman's body all that way, especially given that they had to escape right afterewards. Logistically speaking, the decision makes sense. At the end, they had the luxury of taking their bodies with them.
There is nothing that suggests they did anything other than the thing their consciences could handle at any point in the story. At the beginning, they didn't envision any problems with the locals. Their consciences could handle stealing the gold. Their consciences couldn't handle stealing the gold and leaving a group of people to be slaughtered. They were toast at the end already--their consciences couldn't handle having it all have been for nothing, for letting those people die so close to freedom.
There was no moral conversion of any of the characters. They never move to a different POV. They took a chance that they could steal the gold in and out, no problems. Once this became impossible, they didn't suddenly start to realize the error of their ways. They reacted to the events as they happened. There is no distaste or outrage at being outfoxed by the barbarians, no concept that the gold is only theirs. They treat the Iraqi villagers as equals.
Did you read TJ's and my conversation about the ending a while back?
My spelling has completely gone south on my today, where my memory usually heads as well. I tried the IMD link above, but it only brought me to a new page of the Mote, so forgive all names & spelling.
Play By Heart proves again that Jon Stewart can't act. His winsome smile and ability to say a funny line is about all he has going for him when he plays a fictional character. Gillian Anderson should thank her large bang that hung across one third of her face. We saw as much expression from it as we did from her. Watching Sean Connery play the perfect older husband was a waste of his talent. Watching him hop and pant like a dog in character was embarrassing. Gena Rowlands was a wash. Anthony Edwards was a wash. Dennis Quaid was a wash.
Ryan Phillipe, besides playing a pouty boy -- and he has that role down pat (see Cruel Intentions) -- was a wash.
But Angelie Joile (sp?) was incredible. I don't think I've seen her perform before, but she was fantastic, given the many limitations of a movie about a bunch of damaged goods in the relationship department.
As far as the Freddie P movie, 109109 had the best observation when he wrote that the teenagers in these movies must have annual salaries over $100,000 a year. And if Freddie P was in high school (at his apparent age and size), he wasn't the 4th ranking scholar in his class. Instead, he's been held back for about 5 or 6 years.
I indeed read it. The comments, as well as your review, was interesting. Regardless, I was wild about the first half.
Heavens. What difference does it make whether or not FG is the definitive version of boomer history? I don't think it described anything inaccurately--just incompletely.
If the reason I liked the movie had to do with its portrayal of boomer history, then I suppose we could argue about whether or not it captured the troubling era in all its many faces. But I've already said that I enjoyed it for other reasons.
I think the more conceivable criticism is the complaint that the movie lectured. Shrug. I would argue that those who saw it as a lecture probably misread the tone. Or perhaps I did--in which case, I'm happy for it. I'm all for misinterpretations saving me from hating a movie.
It is also possible that the movie intended to be something more than I perceived it. Oh, well. See my previous comments on the unimportance of intent. For whatever reason, I enjoyed the movie for its love story, the way that they made his accomplishments believable, and the meeting up of the different story lines.
It's not like I'm claiming it's a classic of the modern era. I just liked it more than others did.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I am not stating that view presented by the movie (shared by many other icons of the boomers), that the struggles faced by the boomers were unique and that they singlehandedly cured the world's problems over the resistence of their elders, was incomplete, just laughably wrongheaded.
What love story? Robin Wright's character made it very clear that she wanted nothing to do with Gump until she was dying and needed someone to care for her kid. Does the movie provide any reason to suspect that if she didn't contract AIDS that he would have ever seen her again? He loved her throughout, but it takes 2 parties to have a love story.
The visual effects and Hanks' acting were great, and provided the sole reasons to see the movie.
The thing is, the film has the jurors change their votes in some relentless progression toward innocence. The majority of them are still voting not-guilty when some of the most damning evidence has still gone unchallenged (such as the female eyewitness). As such, the film is telegraphing its inevitable conclusion extremely early, and makes many of its characters look like unreasoning dolts.
And the eye-glasses thing pissed me off. The near-sightedness is just assumed. A lot of people just need reading glasses, and can see perfectly fine if something isn't right in front of their face. A lot of other people are far-sighted. Others where sunglasses a lot, or maybe weare protective goggles in their workplace. Suddenly assuming near-sightedness is a hell of a leap.
I also thought that the knife was quite damning. When Quincy said that "there is no way he would have used a knife any other way", he was implicitly saying that the kid was a streetwise knife expert *and* ignoring the fact that the victim was *indeed* killed in that way by a switchblade. Assuming that Quincy was right about switchblade expertise, all we know is that the villain was killed by an amateur, and we have no idea of whether the suspect was an expert or a novice with the blade.
The logical mistake I think the film makes, is in assuming that if you can cast reasonable doubt on each individual piece of evidence, that you have cast reasonable doubt on the entire case. For instance, 10 pieces of evidence which have only a 90% chance of being accurate in indicating that the suspect is guilty, collectively have a 99.99999999% chance of indicating guilt.
We aren't talking about a chain of evidence here. He are talking about many completely independent acts, where if one of them is removed, the others are generally not affected.
I would have voted to send the kid down the river, and criticized all of those who made up their minds conclusively before all of the evidence was presented and discussed (although I would have been kinder to those who concluded guilt early, based on the quantity of the evidence.
The film did succeed in scaring the hell out of me. The fact that the jury couldn't ask the female eyewitness about the quality of her vision struck me as a major flaw in the justice system. I talked to a trial lawyer friend of mine, and she said that whether that question could be answered would be up to the judge, and his decision would be a crap shoot.
Because it uses that ramshackle copout of having the good guy be an idiot. The only way to deal with the modern perception that everything is gray is to have "heroes" be innocent morons. (Or from another species, naive to the ways of humans.)
I'll take "Songs of Innocence and Experience" over plain old "Songs of Innocence" anyday, thank ye.
As a "message" movie it's message is only slightly more pardonable than that of "Pretty Woman."
BTW, CalGal, besides "All That Jazz," we agree about "The China Syndrome." Superb performances by everyone in the film and, especially at the time, it was damn believable.
Where do you see the movie presenting the struggles faced by boomers as unique? Or that they cured the world problems? I saw no such presentation. You seem to be bringing that to the movie.
As for Jenny's character, I disagree to a certain extent. In the first place, she did love him as part of her past--the only good thing that came from it. There are various things that wouldn't have happened if she hadn't have loved him--her kindness after he beat up her date, her joy at finding him at the Washington Monument (still my favorite point of the movie), her returning to visit when she needed to recharge.
Was she using him? I don't think so. I would say that she took his love for granted. But then, so did he take her love for granted. They were both kind to each other at times when no one else was. Given that the movie doesn't provide her motivations, I think you have to look at what they did show, which was that she never betrayed him to others, never sold him out or bailed out on him to avoid looking bad in front of her friends. She also never asked for money--and only asked for his help with her son when it was clear she was dying.
Given all that, I think you need to find another explanation for her behavior than some sort of callous usage of Forrest. With her history, I think there are plenty of other believable reasons.
By your own admission, you missed the preachiness of the movie (which no shortage of other eMoters have noted).
As to Jenny's motivations, I don't think they consituted love in any romantic sense. They were friendly throughout and she took pity on him, but nothing more.
But I did laugh quite a bit, and thought Hanks' and Sinise's performances were quite good.
The majority of them are still voting not-guilty when some of the most damning evidence has still gone unchallenged (such as the female eyewitness).
I disagree.
I think several jurors realized very early on in the process how tenuous their original decision had been. The watchmaker, the guy who originally came from a bad neighborhood (Klugman), and the one who was protective of the old man. (The old man himself pretty much admitted that he changed his vote out of respect for Fonda).
Then you have the one who was pretty much distracted by his other job--being foreman. It was pretty clear that Balsam didn't focus on his opinion--which was probably much like that of the watchmaker, someone who hadn't really thought it through--until he was relieved of the problem of handling dissent in the group. This happened after 4 or 5 voters had switched. I believe he switched after the knife usage issue and the old man's time to get to the door.
Then you have E.G. Marshall--the one who alone among the others had actually given a great deal of thought to his decision. He is the one who needs all the evidence, down to the woman eye-witness.
Apart from the ones already mentioned, this leaves the Robert Webber, the sales guy--the effortless shifter, since he is completely bound up in what others thought, and couldn't make up his mind without this information.
The near-sightedness is just assumed. A lot of people just need reading glasses, and can see perfectly fine if something isn't right in front of their face.
People who need reading glasses do not wear them so often that the nosepieces leave a dent on their face. Full stop. This is, truly, not arguable--and something that would be far more generally known in the 50s than in the 90s.
To me, the fact that the knife might have been used differently was the second weakest point--after the knife purchase. For one thing, it was expert testimony that wasn't presented to the jury. (g) The fact that it swayed people is undeniable--but it is also further indication why stuff like that really isn't allowed in jury rooms. But, as I said, it is really secondary compared to the old man's and woman's testimony being disproved. I don't think you'll find that anyone was convinced by that alone.
The logical mistake I think the film makes, is in assuming that if you can cast reasonable doubt on each individual piece of evidence, that you have cast reasonable doubt on the entire case.
Actually, the film doesn't make that mistake. The film doesn't care. The jurors might have made that mistake. But that's why the movie interests me--their reasons for originally deciding guilt were so tenuous that they couldn't put up a good defense when their rationale was shot down.
That you would have voted to send the kid down the river strikes me as odd. I see no way that you can say that the old man and the woman's testimony wasn't reasonably disproven. Given the stress the prosecuting attorney put on it (something that was mentioned throughout), it was clear that the eye witnesses were considered to be the foundation of the case. Once disproven, I think it makes perfect sense that there was reasonable doubt.
That's the fascination of the film for me: the demonstration of how easy it is to manipulate/convince people who don't have much in the way of convictions to start with.
Actually, I said that I might have missed the preachiness. In other words, I was allowing that as a possibility. Equally possible is that the preachiness wasn't there. Thus far in my debates on Gump, I haven't seen a compelling argument for preachiness that doesn't rely on something external to the movie--which doesn't generally count.
Most people, incidentally, have just said they hated it. I don't know if they hate it because it was preachy.
As to Jenny's motivations, I don't think they consituted love in any romantic sense. They were friendly throughout and she took pity on him, but nothing more.
I don't recall saying that it was love in the romantic sense. That being said, your second sentence is woefully inaccurate.
I would say Rask's assessment of it is closer to my own, except I never much care if a movie pretends to significance if I don't see it in the movie itself. Zemeckis might have preened himself on it, critics might have vaunted or castigated it based on its supposed significance-- but if it didn't carry into the movie, I don't care much about it. I didn't see it in the movie itself. And I would have disliked the movie if it had provided commentary--that was, in fact, one of the reasons I enjoyed it.
I think that the physical evidence and the undisputed testimony of the case established means, motive, and opportunity, and a link to the murder weapon. I wouldn't have needed much more to push me beyond a reasonable doubt. The two eyewitnesses would have done it. I think that the attempted shoot-down of the old man's testimony depends on the utter faith in his ability to estimate time precisely. Personal experience tells me that people suck at estimating the passage of time without the aid of a watch, but that they are pretty good at recognizing familiar faces.
And no motive for falsification on the part of the woman was even presented, and I have already said what I didn't like about the "eyeglasses" problem.
The two separate accounts clinch it. I think there is a lot more against the kid than there was against OJ.
"That's the fascination of the film for me: the demonstration of how easy it is to manipulate/convince people who don't have much in the way of convictions to start with."
It was too contrived to actually be interesting in this way. If I want see how easy it is to sway weak-minded people with words, there are much better examples, where I don't feel like I am being lectured on the moral obligations of jurors.
Callouses that are visible? I bet not. Put it this way, a woman who had dents in her nose would have to convince the average person that she wasn't nearsighted. I'm not sure when it became common to correct for hyperopia, but in general (even now), correction is assumed to be for myopia. I imagine it was nearly completely the case in the 50s. Besides, correction for hyperopia only occurs in a very few cases. Reading glasses don't give you the visible dents unless you are using them all the time. I think that creates reasonable doubt--given that she didn't mention putting on her glasses.
The motivation for the woman was pretty similar to the motivation for the old man's--attention. She was dressed up, enjoying herself. She undoubtedly thought that the person she saw was the boy.
As for the old man, you miss the point. If he estimated time correctly, then it made sense that the kid would be outside the door for him to see. If it took him that much longer, the question becomes why was it that the kid was there to be seen? The whole premise was that he panicked and hauled ass out of there. So either he was right about the time or he was wrong. But in one case the kid would be there, in the other he wouldn't. He'd see the back of the kid, running down the stairs. If that. Besides, it had by now been established that he probably couldn't have heard the kid yelling, given that the el was going by. So that doubt had already been cast.
There was no physical evidence other than the knife--with no fingerprints. And the jurors pointed out--accurately--that either he panicked or he didn't. If he didn't panic, then he didn't have an alibi, he came back to the scene of the crime late, and so on. If he did panic, it is odd that he took the time to wipe for prints.
You've pretty much made up your mind the kid is guilty, but I think a reasonable interpretation says that it is still open, based on evidence. I grant you that most people wouldn't raise those questions--and that in most cases, the answers, once raised, would not change the outcome. But that's really beside the point--the fact is, someone asked the questions and neither the prosecutors or the jurors had prepared for that possibility. And there wasn't anyone like you on the jury to hang it--assuming you would have hung tough in the face of the opposition.
Rask,
That's the "significance"? Heavens. That was pretty mild. And also in keeping with the movie and the character, given his life. I thought you meant "significance" in some great cosmic "this is the quintessential essence of the boomers" philosophical sense.
Regarding the old man, it is not necessary for the boy to have panicked instantly. Panic may have taken a minute to settle in. In fact, several moments of shock over such an action seems extremely plausible. A "if he panicked, he must have taken off at a dead sprint the second the body hit the floor" explanation just doesn't follow.
"As for your bit about "weak-minded individuals"--hardly weak-minded. It took a lot of convincing. The whole point was that these people were quite ordinary. As I said earlier, a movie could be made about one man coercing 11 to his view of reality. But this was more a demonstration of how very little people actually use to make up their mind, and how someone could use that to his advantage. "
Huh? You are the one who said convincing them was easy. If I may quote: "That's the fascination of the film for me: the demonstration of how easy it is to manipulate/convince people who don't have much in the way of convictions to start with."
I assumed "weak-minded" from your text, but isn't a necessary adjective. There are a lot of better films about about convincing people who haven't made up their minds.
Well, that was my point. Its attempts at significance weren't very important, but they were certainly there, and took up a huge chunk of screen time.
(Wonder if Hanks and Springsteen ever talked the Tao of Gump while working on "Philadelphia," heh-heh-heh.)
There's this chick I know who does a better Forest Gump then Hanks. Does a great "Edith Ann" too, but that's another story.
I preferred Comedy Central's variation on the "Life is a box of chocolates" theme. My favorite was the Jeffrey Dahmer one -- "People are like a box of chocolates -- yum!"
"Evil is as evil does".
Jeffrey: "People are like a box of chocolates. Yum....Only sometimes they beat you to death for tryin to eat 'em. Chocolate almost never does that."
Okay, okay. Back on topic. Does TV or film really scare you, other then the "boo" effect? One movie that scared the piss out of me was "Suspira." I was living by myself and watched it at night with all the lights out, though.
Haven't seen Blair Witch.
Lots of them scare me, and more scare my wife. That's why I had no desire to see Blair Witch.
A fuller reply now that the millenial is out of the way. I was scared as a child by the run of disaster movies, especially The Towering Inferno. More recently, Natural Born Killers (which I was dragged to on a date) scared me. I don't get scared by sheer blood(just disgusted).
I also think "wanting attention" is a damned weak reason to testify to witnessing a murder.
Agreed. "Wanting attention" is what moves her from saying "I couldn't see it very clearly at all--I didn't have my glasses on" to "It was the boy." And "small doubt" is a bit of an understatement, given the likelihood of her nearsightedness. At that point, I don't think anyone can be blamed for considering it reasonable doubt. The prosecution's bad for not anticipating this.
Frankly, I can't imagine any prosecution's case not establishing the witness's eyesight, when it's from another building through an el train window. If you're going to extrapolate (as you've been doing cheerfully, so I'm just going to jump in), the fact that the prosecution didn't establish her eyesight could be because they knew it was a weak spot. In fact, the woman might not have been wearing glasses because the prosecution didn't want the defense wondering if she'd been wearing her glasses that night. (That the defense was lackluster was clearly established.)
A "if he panicked, he must have taken off at a dead sprint the second the body hit the floor" explanation just doesn't follow.
So you are now saying the entire prosecution's case--that the boy took off at a sprint in order to meet the old man who only took 14 seconds to get to the front door--was wrong. That you are assuming two other possibilities--namely, that the old man took longer because hey, people get this stuff confused and well, people don't necessarily take off at a dead sprint if they panic. They might wait a while.
And then you are combining these two things--which were not what the prosecution said--to enable you to find him guilty. Because you think he's guilty, whether the prosecution had the right theory or not.
At which point, you are operating well outside the rules you agreed to abide by when you signed up for jury duty. You are supposed to give the defendant the benefit of the doubt, not the prosecution. Once the prosecution's case has been disproved--once any reasonable person would realize that the old man could not have made it to the door in the time he said--then you don't get to decide what must really have happened. I don't know if you have to reject all of the old man's testimony, but you are certainly not allowed to come up for an explanation for it that goes against the prosecution's explanation. It isn't your job to convict the defendant. It's your job to determine if the prosecution made its case.
All of this pretty much serves to prove my point: The eye-witness testimony was pretty conclusively demolished, using generally available information (the appearance and behavior of the witnesses). So the movie established reasonable doubt that the kid hadn't done it. It was not a matter of Fonda swaying a bunch of weak-minded morons to his POV.
And at this point, I think we've written more words on the damn movie than there were lines in the script.
Given the stretches you've made (people wear glasses to the point of having dents for other reasons, the old man must have been wrong on the time which means the kid must have not immediately panicked despite the fact that this was the basis for the explanation), I'm missing how a juror could have used the prosecution's case to decide guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I think the movie established doubt very creditably. The focus of the movie was not on the guilt or innocence, but on the interpersonal dynamics involved--which I've already described, to the best of my ability.
And it's a masterpiece
And we *really* don't want to get into an "obligations of a juror" discussion again. You yourself pointed out how Fonda went out and bought himself a blade, very much against jury instructions. If we are following the letter of what juries are allowed to consider, the kid fries.
Barton Fink
Miller's Crossing
The Piano
And I would *love* to hear your take on American Beauty...
Two different issues: in one case, we are discussing your argument that the kid's guilt was obvious. It was not. In the other case, I am addressing the dramatic weakness of Fonda going outside the bounds to buy that knife. If, as I said, there was any real weight given to the knife as evidence, I'd agree that it was questionable. As I've said, though, the death blow was the eye-witness testimony, not the knife stuff.
And since I've just pretty much smacked you around on the eye-witness testimony, to the point that you had to bring up farsightedness and dismissing the prosecution's for your own theory: you're SOL, pal.
I view top ten lists and such as starting points for discussion. I have never understood why Deerhunter is held in such high esteem by a lot of people, and talking about it helps.
However, I *still* don't see what people see in American Beauty.
The Worst ("Serious") Films of the 1990s
A Welsh Reptile Burrows His Slithering Tongue through Kristin Scott-Thomas's Ear (TEP)
Barton Fink
Miller's Crossing
The Piano
The Worst ("Serious") Films of the 1990s
Now, now. None of that. I jumped out of that window a long time ago. But you are wonderful, in a loathsome kind of way.
I think criticizing me for making an inconsequential alteration to the prosecution's case is rank hypocrisy.
It was to the prosecution's case which, for reasons mentioned, is well outside your juror's job scope. You're out of order. Objection overruled.
Also, I'm not sure that Fonda's purchase was out of line back then. Although it certainly is now.
Besides--just to stew a tender portion of this horse's shanks--they did not extrapolate. They chose not to accept eye witness testimony for emininently supportable reasons. Whether they extrapolated on the knife stuff is just added on for dramatic impact.
Have you forgotten Amistad? It was a dreadfully bad film, and didn't even have the schmaltzy romance of AWRBHSTTKSTE's as an excuse for its excesses.
I can't believe SpenceM prefers Deerhunter to Lawrence of A.
Pseudo--American Beauty is that Kevin Spacey movie. It is getting the same sort of critical attention that Elizabeth got last year and is, if Rask is to be believed, equally dreadful.
And I think Elizabeth should be added to your worst "serious" films, now that I think of it.
A laywer who mistakes herself for the judge is bucking for a contempt citation. And since when is a juror bound to decide the case based soley on the prosecution's take on the facts? It seems to me that it is obvious that if the facts dictate that the prosecution is wrong, I would be shirking my duty if paid attention to the prosecution's argument over the facts.
"Besides--just to stew a tender portion of this horse's shanks--they did not extrapolate. They chose not to accept eye witness testimony for emininently supportable reasons. Whether they extrapolated on the knife stuff is just added on for dramatic impact."
well, they certaintly extrapolated the hell out of the motives of the two witnesses, and the eyeglasses.
You're mad. Utterly bonkers.
"Live free!"
The slaves determining the story of Christ by the pictures in the Bible.
The bilge that serves as a Williams score.
The earnest moralizing by every character, from the slave to John Q.
It was not oversculpted feces--rather, it was several large blobs produced by someone who ate far too much and didn't sufficiently digest prior to expulsion.
They aren't supposed to do his job for him. That is, I am pretty sure, a no no.
It seems to me that it is obvious that if the facts dictate that the prosecution is wrong, I would be shirking my duty if paid attention to the prosecution's argument over the facts.
Facts? Yes, I think so. But in this case, you have no facts. You are basically saying that, since the facts presented don't add up (old man took too long, boy would have been gone) you will just make up some handy dandy new ones that fit the scenario.
well, they certaintly extrapolated the hell out of the motives of the two witnesses, and the eyeglasses.
Actually, they didn't need a motive at all to disbelieve them. And as described, it was believable.
In what universe? If a prosecuter says "here we have a dead body, a bullet recovered from that body, a coroner's report showing that the cause of death was the recovered bullet, and 12 witnesses who claim to have seen their good friend Mr X shoot a gun (matching the bullet recovered) at his wife. It is therefore the prosectution's argument that the deceased was run over by Mr X's car in a willful act of homocide." You seem to think that I should vote not guilty because the facts don't bear out the prosecution's argument.
"Facts? Yes, I think so. But in this case, you have no facts. You are basically saying that, since the facts presented don't add up (old man took too long, boy would have been gone) you will just make up some handy dandy new ones that fit the scenario. "
You have lots of facts. You have the claims of the various witnesses Tthat the old man claimed to have seen the murder is a fact. That he claimed it took him x seconds to walk to do the door is also a fact. if the facts of the case are in conflict, the juror's job is to determine the truth. In this case, either the old man is wrong about witnessing the murder, or he is wrong about how long it took him to walk to the door, or both. The middle one seems the most plausible to me.
Go find Trial Shark. But yeah, I would argue that it's not a juror's job to think for the prosecutor.
The old man did not claim to see the murder. He claimed to hear the murderer--over an el train--and to have seen the murder as he ran down the stairs. Although there is no way he could have gotten to the door in that amount of time.
So the jurors are left to believe whether the old man might have actually heard something, and seen the back of the murderer rather than his face as he rushed down the stairs.
That the old man identified the murderer is not a fact. It is eye-witness testimony, which is never to be confused with facts. Physical evidence is facts. Jurors tend to rely--often unjustifiably--on eye witness testimony. But it isn't not factual.
What was at issue was not that he saw something. What was at issue was his ability to positively identify what he saw as the kid. What he said he heard was clearly not possible, given the el train rushing by at that time. It was also not possible for him to get to the door in the time stated.
At that point, two of the three things he said were demonstrably untrue. You then had to come up with an alternate scenario--saying that both elements of the case (boy's panic time, old man's time to get to the door) were wrong--in order to find the kid guilty.
Seriously, Rask, if you are ever called in for jury duty, I'm taking it on myself to warn all the attorneys on both sides in your jurisdiction.
I just finished watching L&O: SVU, and out comes Stone Phillips:
"Eye Witness Testimony: Thousands of people are convicted on it every year. It is very powerful. It is also quite often wrong."
I swear to god. The show is on the overall inaccuracy of eyewitness testimony, using one particular case.
I hereby declare this to be cosmic intervention. I WIN!!!!!
We need a lawyer in here. A legal eagle friend of mine once explained to me what "the facts of the case" entailed, and it included the various claims of the witnesses. note, that the witnesses claim something is a fact, not what the claim to have seen.
"What was at issue was not that he saw something. What was at issue was his ability to positively identify what he saw as the kid. What he said he heard was clearly not possible, given the el train rushing by at that time. It was also not possible for him to get to the door in the time stated. "
Don't know how the noise level could be clearly determined without duplicating the events. a body thumping on the floor is pretty damned loud, as someone who has had noisy neighbors above me can attest.
"At that point, two of the three things he said were demonstrably untrue. You then had to come up with an alternate scenario--saying that both elements of the case (boy's panic time, old man's time to get to the door) were wrong--in order to find the kid guilty. "
Again, this is just the prosecution's argument. If the argument doesn't fit the facts, I have no problem throwing the argument out the window.
And since you basically admitted that you would vote not guilty in the homocide hypothetical I mentioned earlier, I hereby claim victory myself, since I have demonstrated that your criteria for accepting an argument of guilt are extremely bizarre.
I have a feeling that Pseudo's take on South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut (assuming he's even heard of the series, much less the movie) would be hilarious.
"Plus the songs were catchy, particularly 'Uncle Fucka'."
The English Patient
Leaving Las Vegas
Wild at Heart
Awakenings
The Piano
Dantheman--Disaster films may be suspenseful, but scary? When I was real young and saw the first "Alien" I never relaxed for a second. Why do so many "horror" movies feel the need for comic relief? You know it's good when you come out of the theater needin a beer worse then a piss.
My worst serious films of the 90s:
American Beauty (naturally)
Legends of the Fall
Antonia's Line
The English Patient
Braveheart
Shine
It is considered a "serious" film because the 2 leads are mopey Brits and because it has a lot of mumbled dialogue.
Disaster films scared me as a kid. I had many nightmares from the Towering Inferno and the Poseidon Adventure.
Leaving Las Vegas is tops on my list for 1990s crapola.
I posted before your personal observation on LLV. I want you to know this because I care for you and I have absolutely no problem with this.
How bout most likely to be painful to watch in the 90s?
Kevin Costner, Adam Sandler, Tom Cruise fer starters.
Nick Cage? Yea or Nay?
Nea.
Call it spite and jealousy but I believe I could be funnier then that guy.
Course Jerry Lewis has his defenders too. Are you French by any chance?
And are you trying to enable my taste in what you think are bad films?
No, no. Look, I'm just here to . . . . look, maybe if you drank bourbon with me, it would help.
The Celebration
Boogie Nights (if it belongs on this list)
The Romeo and Juliet version with Claire Danes and Leonardo DiCaprio
What was The Celebration?
And with the mention of DiCaprio, revisionism is now setting in on Titanic, and people are giving it better notices, but nothing can change the fact that, while visually stunning, the film boasted a screenplay unfit for "Saved by the Bell." Add it to my list.
Frankenstein.
The only part that was salvageable was when Deniro ripped Bonham Carter's head off. That was a knee slapper.
Before the lines start showing too much he oughtta consider doing the role just tailor-made for him: Peter Pan.
American cinema doesn't get much better.
Goody. My list:
English Patient
Titanic
Legends of the Fall
Whatever that awful movie was with Wesley Snipes and Sly Stallone, God, how I wanted to punch that film
Horse Whisperer (what is it about Kristin Scott Thomas?)
Four Rooms (that other awful movie with 4 vignettes by 4 directors, I think that's the name)
I'm sure I'll come up with more
While I agree that Titanic was the most overrated film of the decade, it is only mediocre and hackneyed, not horrible.
The Celebration was a Danish film which I saw early this year. The technique, which is constantly praised as revolutionary, consists of refusing to use special lighting or sets and only hand-held cameras. The result is something like a 13-year old taking home movies of a family gathering.
The story consists of relatives gathering for a 65th birthday celebration for the father of the family. At the party, with a large number of extended family and friends, the eldest child tries to tell the assembled gathering that the reason his sister committed suicide and that he is a worthless wanderer is that Father had sexually abused them as kids. Every time he tries to speak (and remember, the audience does not know what he is going to say), he is forceably thrown out of the room and beaten up. Finally he gets the whole message out, and the people who were throwing him out without letting him speak now, with no more evidence than the oldest child's statements, shun the father.
Diva:
I will stand up for "Four Rooms." The Tarrantino vignette sucks, the Madonna/witch vignette sucks, the Jennifer Beal vignette is okay but nothing that isn't completely prefigured by Pulp Fiction, but...
Tim Roth is hilarious, and I'll put up the Antonio Bandaras vignette with the kids ("The Misbehavors") as one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
Antonio was the only reason I sat through that P.O.S.
I understand he is also considering Titanic II. Another ship goes down, and this time, there is a mad scramble amongst the passengers for safety atop Melanie Griffith's lips.
Smoke
Slingblade
The Piano
The Player
Angel at my Table
Blue in the Face
Leaving Las Vegas
Pret a Porter
Smoke - Hey. I liked this okay.
Slingblade - This too, though I thought it more a performance movie ala' Rain Man
The Piano -this may be the universal front runner
The Player - This is shocking. I would rank this as one of the best.
Angel at my Table - Is that the big redheaded girl who is institutionalized? (same director as The Piano - if so, I agree 100%)
Blue in the Face - never heard of it.
Leaving Las Vegas - Bingo.
Pret a Porter - Is this the Altman fashion movie? I did not see it.
Coral, I'd disagree with Sling Blade, The Player and Smoke.
How could she not, playing across the incomparable Craig Wasson?
I never understood the hype over "The Player." I thought it sucked.
And if I want to see celebrities playing themselves, I'll watch entertainment tonight.
The Player is a movie that has a lot of in jokes (although the rest was pretty good). I needed help catching some of the jokes, but they were pretty funny once explained (e.g., the early scene where the effects of MTV-style quick cuts is deplored in a scene that goes about 5 minutes without a cut).
Slingblade is a wonderful little movie; I think it helps to realize that Karl wasn't retarded. A lot of people think he was, which kind of ruins the effect. But in any event, I can't put it anywhere approaching a "worst" list.
DantheMan:
1) That "joke" is not funny.
2) It's not a joke at all. Directors cream their pants at filming long segments in one uninterrupted take. They did it before MTV. It's not really a commentary on MTV style quick cutting; it's just directors showing off.
DePalma opened "Bonfire of the Vanities" with a five minute or so uninterrupted take; was that a "joke" or comment on MTV as well? "Rope" was filmed entirely in just three or four long takes (all disguised, to give the impression the whole film was just one long take).
Not a "joke." Just a device.
I don't know why people even bother talking about long takes. Who gives a shit, really? When SnakeEyes came out, everyone yammered about the opening long-take.
We've really come a bit too media-sophisticated for out own good. Well, not sophisticated-- sophomoric. "Wise fool." We yammer about technical contrivances because we're savvy enough to recognize them, but not savvy enough to recognize them as the superficial gimmicks they are.
But it wasn't nearly as bad as when we rented "Event Horizon." Goodness gracious, that movie was sick to death! And I thought it would be a space flick in line with something like Alien.
"I don't know why people even bother talking about long takes. Who gives a shit, really? When SnakeEyes came out, everyone yammered about the opening long-take. "
The reason people go ape-shit over them is that they are quite technically difficult to pull off. There is a hell of a lot of time and expense wasted if anyone screws up 4 minutes into the shot. You can't just edit around the screw up, you have to do a re-take. I haven't bothered to see Snake Eyes, but from what I have read, it was an incredible technical achievement since it involved a very large set with lots of extras and lots of camera movement.
But I think you are right that directors frequently use them just to show off. The opening shot of The Birdcage comes to mind, where the camera flies in by helicopter, then heads across the street into the nightclub up to a close up of one of the performers on stage. It was quite technically impressive, but it was pretty fucking insignificant in adding anything to the movie.
Contrast that with the famous opening of Touch of Evil, where the camera starts off showing a bomb being set, and does not cut until the bomb explodes several minutes later. In that scene, the long take increases the suspense. Another famously appropriate long take is the walk into the nightclub in Goodfellas, where the camera movement and lack of editing accentuate the smoothness by which the characters get the best service because of their mob membership.
The opening to The Player does use its long take as a joke. One of the things the movie frequently satirizes is the creative bankruptcy of Hollywood (particularly appropriate when The Player was made, before Hollywood began buying up the Independent studios) -how they don't try anything particularly challenging, hiring the same popular actors in formulaic movies. By opening up with something quite technically challenging, the film *is* showing off, but that showing off perfectly fits the theme of the film.
And I particularly enjoyed the self-referential opening which I didn't perceive as a "joke". It was just fucking elegant.
Re Devils Advocate. I thought the book was good (Morris West). But I was much younger when I read it. And perhaps it is not same one as the film is based on.
The movie was Faust in creeps clothing.
What was the Italian movie with Jack Nicholson that is set in Northern Africa? The first 30 minutes or so, there's no dialogue, just Jack wandering in the desert. The final shot starts in a room, pulls out through a window and then moves around a public square, all in one take.
Monica's dad, Dr. Bernard Lewinsky, is stewing over last week's episode of NBC's "Law and Order: Special Victims Unit" in which a character used the phrase "getting a Lewinsky" to describe oral sex.
What's Lewinkskys problem? He should have been a little more concerned about what Monica would do to the family name before she started seducing her married teacher and before she vowed to get her Presidential kneepads.
Blase? Really? I don't think we all are. Pardon my missed accent, btw. Laziness.
Holly Hunter aint much of a looker, but "Broadcast News" was purty good.
Love Holly Hunter otherwise though -- especially in "Crash" and "Living Out Loud." She's a real sweetie in person too.
msscreech is bubba's little sister, so one would expect her to defend the fat one.
Executive: "It must be nice to always believe you know better, to always think you're the smartest person in the room."
Hunter: "No. It's awful."
I thought Living Out Loud was a dull movie, at best. So did the people I saw it with (the Squirrel and her mom and grandmom). Did anything actually happen, or was it just that Holly Hunter spent the whole movie having a good opportunity in front of her and missing it?
The lesbian disco scene was extremely accurate. I went to just such a place back in the 70's with a former boyfriend who was something of a lesbian-hag. We had the best time, and were the only two guys in the place.
The number of people who have informed me that they thought of me during that scene would worry me, were it not for the fact that I think the same thing every time I see it. That exchange is me all over.
What a deal BillyJeff has. He's never responsible for his actions. It's always someone else's fault.
He's way out of my league in politics, though. I dabble all over, but he knows his brass tacks.
That's why I'm generally staying off his thread. I'd jest wind up sayin "me too" all the time.
I wouldn't be a good one to ask. My wife started watching the movie and then I came in about 30 minutes into the movie. I watched it from there, then the next day went back and watched the first 30 minutes.
Ace/Simon also had some sort of editorial problem with MacBeth-the- deleter, which is why he doesn't post there anymore (Their loss, since he's also a terrific writer.)
While I'm at it, I had an unusually strong reaction to you using the word "slut". I don't know why, and I generally don't fuss about these things. But it seemed needless.
Get lost, sister!
You, sir, are rude. Are you denying Monica could've used a little parental control? And the reason I didn't mention her mother, per se, is because it's her FATHER who is bitching. If he'd kept his mouth shut, no one would've noticed the remark.
This is "The Practice" where self-righteous lawyers scream at judges, throw briefs at them, and are regularly locked up for contempt, yet they manage to excel in a budding law practice.
Revenge of the middling television writer is a bitch.
Well, I think we all got spoiled by L&O, which apparently gets it right all the time.
I have never liked The Practice as much as I like NYPD Blue, L&O, and all but the last season of Homicide. Actually, I think Chicago Hope manages to do pretty well, too. And this year has been very weak.
I miss The Sopranos. (sob)
Well, I watched both halves of West Wing tonight. And in the second half, the President's "team"--the guy who did the vomiting and yelling in front of the Capitol--got their ass kicked for hubris. The vote passed, but all credit went to the veep, and justifiably so. It was not presented as the veep scheming, but as clever politicking. Which also put paid to the veep getting his ass kicked around by Spencer (the chief of staff) last week.
Verdict is still out on whether it's a great show, but it's at least putting things back in balance.
1) In one's dreams, behind one's doors, a president's staff would say Congress makes me vomit, you will vote such and such or we'll recruit an opponent if you don't vote our way. IRL, that would take us back to the Carter years, when his very inexperienced, outside-the-beltway staff did such.
Carter had both houses run by his party, and the loathing between executive and legislative was fairly strong.
A mad Congressman can get back at the executive in about a jillion ways.
2) That said, Leo's wife ditching him was probably mild, compared to real life. And while the clandestine AA meeting seems extreme -- and open to being found out -- closed AA meetings are very real and available for folk in government. That was an interesting touch.
3) Odd that the "B" storyline, the guy's stock taking a fishy growth, would be offered for comic distraction. That's how those guys wrack up the legal bills. A few years ago, the NY Times Sunday Magazine did a story on how legal inquiry and defense affected minor government officials and used as examples, cases from both Clinton and Bush officials. A very devastating thing. I cannot imagine a press secretary being cheerful and joking about this.
In addition to reporters having a field day with such a story, those mad Congressmen, piously demanding an investigation, would be quick to take the lead (which is why a deputy chief of staff would probably not utter to a Congressman "Congress makes me vomit" to their face).
4) Please take a walk on our National Mall, particularly about 5 miles on the other end from the Capitol, without out benefit of either public transportation or any parking, and where WH Deputy Chiefs of Staff and Members of Congress stroll in front of the Lincoln Monument -- NOT.
5) From an architectural standpoint, the Mural Room was an interesting addition to the West Wing. A room that big might exist in the Old Executive Office Building next door, but not in the West Wing.
6) A congressman who'd trade a vote for a photo op is quite believable. That's why Congress makes me want to vomit.
Hey! What are you doing up?
Did you see what I said about balance, though? I thought it was interesting--I pretty much assumed the show was going to go the righteous route. Instead, they were punished for their pushiness. I like that veep quite a bit, actually.
I agree about the VP. It would be nice to think that there was a real life VEEP so calm (and assured about his ability to become president). Something about that position makes the mightiest fellows sweat in public.
I am not sure his little line to the Texas congressman would have made him change his vote. That old coot would have had something "off the menu."
BTW, the president on painkiller started some provision of the 25th (?) Amendment (unable to function, the VP would have been tempoararily in power). IRL, there's a doctor on staff to give him those pills, not an aide. And the Pres ability to be so drunk would not have been humored by his top staff.
Interesting show. Do people enjoy this kind of insider story?
Me, I just view it as a show on the spectrum. Our TV look into political reality is well behind our cop, doc, and lawyer shows. For example, the definitive portrayal of politics is right now accomplished in the movies. Bulworth, Wag the Dog, Primary Colors. They are getting more and more cynical and (I am guessing) closer and closer to reality. Although I'm not sure we could tolerate the real thing.
But where are the definitive portrayals of cops, docs, and lawyers? Not in the movies. Two hours isn't enough any more. Most movies use cops, docs, and lawyers as backdrops to some other story--and when their work is the main story, it's usually some big glamourous thang, not expected to be the real deal. (L.A. Confidential, Usual Suspects, and so on.)
No, the definitive cops, docs, and lawyers are on TV. I don't wish to imply that they are all legit shows, but NYPD Blue, Homicide, ER, and L&O all get high marks for verisimilitude.
So I'm figuring it's about time that this starts happening for politics. I consider WW to be the first step down the path. As such, it is okay.
I did think the coot folded too quickly, but I also figured he enjoyed seeing the President get put in his place.
And yeah, I thought the painkiller scene was absurd. I also thought it unlikely that the chief of staff's wife would walk out at that time. Before--on the way up--or after. But during? I dunno, seemed odd.
Speaking as someone who needs both hands and a few toes to count up the addicts in her family, I thought the AA thing was very nicely done. I'm not sure about the logistics and specifics, but the casual and open discussion was a joy to see.
There is still a long way to go, but for verisimilitude in any given genre, we seem to do better with the best of TV.
I realized this week that I miss Seinfeld and Homocide, but I am not much inclined to watch the re-runs of them.
One show that I'd like to see re-runs of is "Northern Exposure" (until it went nuts in the end).
I'm back to bed.
I sense despair. What gives?
Why not tell us what you really think, Rexie?
I know you think that TV folks out in Hollywood are moral degenerates with potty mouths and that when writing their shows they exhibit callous disregard for the rest of the country's more sensitive ears, writes Lisa de Moraes in today's Washington Post.
Over at producer Dick Wolf's new series "Law & Order: Special Victims Unit," the writers grappled with a dilemma. In their case, the problem was how to describe a certain sex act without offending viewers too much....They came up with the phrase "getting a Lewinsky" and it was used in last week's episode.
Seem like a nice solution? Not to former White House intern Monica Lewinsky's dad, Bernard, who has demanded an apology from NBC, along with a promise never to use the expression again.
"The point behind my outrage is that there is a family behind this name, and I think it's disgusting they would even consider saying something like that," the oncologist told the trade paper Variety.
"Hey, we didn't make it up," Wolf told the Post. NBC is inclined to agree.
"There are certain times when a word makes it into the public lexicon because of news events. And this is one of those words," an NBC spokeswoman said yesterday.
Lewinsky has suggested Wolf's writers use the expression "Clinton job" in the future.
Great funny moment in an obscure movie: Teacher's Pet, Doris Day, Clark Gable, and that gem of a second banana who never got the girl, Gig Young.
Gig Young plays a professor who has not only tons of knowledge, but has been everywhere and done everything. Clark Gable is a city editor with no booklearning and his conviction that he's done more than everyone else is being severely shaken by this younger, handsomer, man.
They are both out at a night club with Doris Day; Gable is trying to make Gig Young look bad. But Gig is urbane, unflappable, he is charming, he knows everything but is never pushy with it. So in desperation, Gable pays the waiter to pour Gig's drinks in triplicate. No dent in Gig's appearance or behavior; Gable, on the other hand, is getting thoroughly plastered and looks it.
He finally leaves, stumbling out of the night club. Young and Day follow, to look after him. Gable denies he's drunk, angrily waits for a cab.
Young say, "Look. You need some air. Just take three deep breaths and you'll feel much better." And he demonstrates, taking a deep breath, and letting it out. Another deep breath, and lets it out.
One more deep breath, his eyes roll up in his head, and he slowly falls to the ground.
Day and Gable watch him drop, bend down to check on him, and the look in Day's eyes after that is reason to remember she was one of the more talented comediennes of the 50s.
I know you take great delight in labeling me an enabler and I would never deny you right to free speech but considering I'm about the only one around here who speaks decently to you, I would think you'd be a little nicer. We don't all have to think alike, you know. Just ask Pat Buchanan.
Reed told a lot about the movie...I just quoted the last line of the review. He is rather enamored of his own wit but luckily, he only reviews one or two movies a month.
I started watching David Letterman again recently, after I stopped watching him shortly after he began his run on CBS.
If anybody else tuned Dave out, you might want to start watching again. He's frequently pretty funny. Almost as funny as he used to be.
Last night he had live coverage of a 17-year-old New Jerseyan taking his driver's license test at the Wayne, NJ Department of Motor Vehicles. (Dave: "And there you see the beautiful, multimillion dollar Wayne DMV facility, and you can see why people come from all over the world to take their driver's test here... the Driving Examiner is Paul Cardello, and if you keep on the world of Driving License Examinations, you know that they don't come much better than Paul Cardello.")
It was funny stuff. Dave rated the kid's performance through the three tests (right turn, K-turn, parallel parking). The kid almost forgot to signal on the right turn (Dave: "You see this happen so much in professional sports... the kid was looking ahead to the tough game, the Parallel Parking, that he fumbled on the easy right-hand turn"). And the parallel parking was funny just because it was so completely inept.
Anyway, that's Ace's TV recommendation of the week.
And Ace knows his TV.
Why? He's prickly, I guess, but I've always loved the man. I thought his writers were poor during the early CBS years, but they're back.
I never thought Dave was anything less than brilliant, though.
Judith (and all):
Has anyone seen "The Late Shift" on HBO or Cinemax, or read the book?
I've seen that movie ten times, and I've read the book about five times. Great story, great movie.
Fluff, sure, but well-done fluff. The performances in the movie are excellent.
I caught part of "The Late Shift" late night on HBO or Cinemax last week. So apparently it's being shown again. If you haven't seen it, and you have any interest in the Leno/Letterman thing, I'd suggest you try catching it. If it's on late at night, record it.
...obviously, though, you need some interest in the subject to enjoy the movie.
I've always wanted to see it; will look for it. I love those "real life" movies...even the Sonny and Cher one was good for a chuckle.
I recall one about Elvis with Kurt Russell.
What is interesting about the book is that Carter clearly preferred Letterman. It was written when Dave was still ahead and he framed it as "talent wins out".
The movie had the wonderful notes at the end, explaining that everyone who looked like a loser in the movie won out. Everyone who looked like a winner was either fired or quit and moved on.
Except Jay and Dave, who are still there. And the one thing that Carter never really considered turned out to be not only doable, but a good thing: we have two equally "good" late show hosts, depending on your preference, both of whom are doing well. And then we have Koppel/Maher for those who can't stand conversation.
I recommend the book highly; the movie is faithful to it as well.
Oh, this is different from "real life" stuff. Bill Carter, the author, is the TV critic for the NY Times. It is a well-researched, well-regarded book.
Another great movie in that vein is Barbarians at the Gate, with James Garner.
Cal:
Yes, Carter obviously preferred Letterman.
It's funny: Everytime I read it, I hope that the ending will be different, and that Letterman will "win."
I disagree about the Letterman performance in the movie; I thought it was perfect. I loved how the actor captured Dave's awkward Midwestern politeness ("I really want to thank you for this, I mean really, gosh, I really appreciate it and I just can't thank you enough.")
And the Bates performance was fairly scary.
Yes, Bates was shit scary--but it was more of a competent scariness. In other words, she gave off too much of the "I'm good at my job, much of which involves scaring the shit out of you." But the real Helen seemed not to be in that much control; she just pushed and pushed and pushed and scared and locked up her whole life in this one guy and bleah. And yet, they paid her shit loads of money and she got what she wanted.
But, okay, cheerful lady, I appreciate it.
You've always reminded me of a man who has the gall to call himself rosetta stone. Tabula rasa is more like it.
I pronounce things as they should be pronounced, correctly.
Anyone see it?
No, I haven't seen it. But you're about the third or fourth person/reviewer who has mentioned the lame ending. Sarah Polley is an interesting actress. Have you seen Sweet Hereafter?
Now, that's news. I'll alert the media.
I've heard some excellent things about Boys Don't Cry. Roger Ebert and his most recent cohost were effusive in their praise, and I plan to see it based on their infectious delight in the movie.
Actually, I really liked Ebert's most recent cohost. I didn't catch her name, but she was articulate, funny,enthusiastic, and Ebert took an obvious shine to her. She is obviously a capable critic who loves to talk about movies, both good and bad. Of the cohosts that Ebert has test driven recently, I have to say I like her the most. Wish I knew her name.
My favorite cohost has been Jeff Greenfield.
I was one of the few people who actually really enjoyed Lynch's last movie, Lost Highway. His forthcoming Straight Story should prove to be very interesting since, as the title suggests, Lynch will actually flirt with a comprehensible story, straightforwardly told, in -- gasp -- a linear narrative.
I didn't care all that much for "The Straight Story," (a little too straight for the likes of me) but Farnsworth is amazing in it. Oscar-worthy!
Anybody want to guess at what The Sixth Sense has taken domestically, thusfar? It's still on the top ten list.
Highlight for answer:
$246,110,218
BTW, did anyone else hear that NYPD Blue isn't going back on the air? Apparently, that Tuesday night show is doing well. So who gives a fuck, sez I. I want my NYP!
Tom Cruise finds a port in his closet and then the fun REALLY starts!
Oh, Heavens to Murgatroyd, I really must see this exquisite new production!!! I chatted with Warren and he says it's just delicious!!!
Take it to the playpen; that's what it's for.
I don't know if he's an idiot (I'll take your word for it), but I would like him to stop posing eight-minute questions which require only a ten second answer. He seems to think people tune in to watch him babble on endlessly.
He only asks what his assistants tell him to ask; if it's an author he's interviewing, he hasn't read the book; if it's a movie, he hasn't seen it. He has smart people working for him and if he looks like an imbecile, it's because his people are trying to get one over on him.
Trust me...I used to do the reading for him and supply the questions he'd ask the authors.
if it's an author he's interviewing, he hasn't read the book; if it's a movie, he hasn't seen it.
Judith, you just described 99% of all interviewers. Do you think people who do a daily show have time to read a book a day and see three or four movies a week?
I don't deny he's an idiot; but he's not an idiot for that reason. Everybody has researchers who skim books for them and point out interesting passages and potential questions.
I hear he gets laid a lot, though. That's what Howard Stern says. He knew Rose casually when he worked in DC. Said he banged almost everybody.
I'm not surprised.
But he is still an idiot.
In your interesting review The Resurrection of Joe Orton, you make a brief aside that I realize isn't central to your piece:
In Lahr's thoroughly upper-middle-class, heterosexual hands, Orton and Halliwell become a gay parody of straight bohemian domesticity gone wrong. The ``discarded wife'' (Halliwell) takes revenge on the ``promiscuity'' of the ``husband'' (Orton); though the record suggests that Halliwell enjoyed all the boys Tangier had to offer every bit as much as Orton did.
I have read at least two other reviewers (one is Ebert, I forget who the other was) who interpret PUYE in the same way--Halliwell was the "wife" with the dishwater hands who helped him on the way up and then was discarded when Orton became famous.
This interests me because I saw the movie very differently--although I have no idea what Lahr's intentions were.
I thought it was blindingly obvious that Halliwell was slowly going insane; that Lorton loved him and was concerned for him--and, at the end, afraid of him. If anything, Orton was captive to a nutjob who he stayed with out of affection and loyalty.
I know nothing about Lahr and, for all I know, he did intend to imply what you suggest. And I do see some hints of this--while they were both shown with other men, Orton clearly had the advantage of numbers. The "parallel" with Shawn's wife. The fact that Halliwell was left out of gatherings.
But if this was his main intent, he miscalculated. The performances of Oldham and Molina, the gentleness with which Orton treats Halliwell, and the many scenes where Halliwell is clearly portrayed as insane are far more powerful and--to me, at any rate--convincingly demonstrate the true nature of their relationship and the cause of Orton's death.
Judith, what I want to know is, how did a fifth rate talk show drone from Dallas wind up on PBS with his own Frost-inspired chat show, an obviously bright cadre of image packagers, and the ability to book virtually anyone any viewer with at minimum 2 working synapses would like to see? I mean, given that he's so crushingly, brain-hurtingly stupid?
Doesn't Rose also, even, produce the thing? Does someone tell him where to invest the money, too? I just can't figure out how a man so mediocre, who can scarcely speak coherently, actually assembles or appears to assemble a program whose basic premise is one of the better ideas on TV.
Actually, I just caught the end of The Birds, and I want to run out and rent it. I'm assuming it's on video.
I have been up late, late, late at night recently and have watched Hotel a couple times. I prefer it to Airplane, if I am to subject myself to schlock. It has far fewer wince-inducing moments.
And Rod was Pongo!
The title tune was co-written by the director, Richard Quine. A very underrated talent who died, sadly forgotten. A suicide.
I just looked up Richard Quine. My god, that's a great group of movies.
He directed the fantastic version of My Sister Eileen, with Betty Garrett and the incredible competition dance between Fosse and Rall. He also directed the two Kim Novak classics: Bell, Book, and Candle and The Notorious Landlady. (Yeah, I know they had Jimmy and Jack respectively, but those two are the only true Kim Novak movies.) In fact, all of those movies had Lemmon in them.
He also directed The Solid Gold Cadillac, Sex and the Single Girl, and How to Murder Your Wife--the latter also with Lemmon. Jesus, you could put together a hell of a Quine film festival.
Thanks for mentioning him. He was 69 when he killed himself--is it known why?
I left the country when Charlie Rose had a local Donahuesque show originating from the WBAP-TV/NBC affiliate station here in Fort Worth. He came here from someplace in Virgina. I remember thinking he would fade into obscurity and I would be left with fond memories of meeting some really cool people thanks to him.
When we returned 4 years later, he had a PBS talk show and was quite the celebrity. I was astonished. Maybe he took a crash course in smarts, I don't know. But he was the last person I'd have expected to be successful.
Whether or not that's necessarily a good thing I have yet to ascertain. But it has a talking penguin. And I'm a sucker for a talking penguin.
It was on Beta, no less.
The McCarthy version of Body Snatchers also originally ended