Now for something much more important...
OH, YEAHHHHHHHHH, BABY!!!!
I didn't say he wasn't "the" villain. He isn't, but that's not the point. I said I don't think he's "a" villain. I don't think movies--other than action films--require a villain.
10095. rubberducky - 6/21/2000 2:40:10 PM
maybe that was the problem
this movie needed something. maybe a villain woulda been it - but i doubt it. don't know what coulda saved this clunker at any rate.
10096. OhioSTOPAS - 6/21/2000 2:42:24 PM
Cal: Did you say recently that Spawn wanted to see "Modern Times"? It's on TCM (Turner Classic Movies) tonight, 10:30 Eastern, I guess 7:30 Pacific.
Leelee Sobieski is a beauty. As others have pointed out, she looks a lot like Helen Hunt, which is a good thing.
10097. CalGal - 6/21/2000 2:43:28 PM
Ohio,
Wow! Thanks so much for the heads up! I'm calling Spawn right now to tell him so we won't forget.
10098. theDiva - 6/21/2000 2:46:36 PM
ooh, set that VCR. It's a keeper.
10099. theDiva - 6/21/2000 2:47:42 PM
I wish I'd been here for the discussion of AMPAS' eligibility requirements. Interesting perspectives here on this topic.
10100. CalGal - 6/21/2000 2:49:20 PM
We can carry on with it, you know.
(hint, hint)
10101. theDiva - 6/21/2000 2:50:49 PM
I kind of hate to do that because I don't want to sound as though I'm pontificating.
10102. CalGal - 6/21/2000 2:53:28 PM
My lord, if we didn't have pontificators the forums would die.
Seriously, I'd love to know what you think, and since you know more about internal politics in "the business", you have a lot to share.
10103. theDiva - 6/21/2000 3:20:09 PM
Well, let me chew on it for a bit. I think AMPAS is correct in its decision. After all, the MP stands for not just the venue of exhibition but the physical medium itself. Movies on video or DVD are no longer actual moving pictures, they're moving pixels.
And you could probably only prove protectionism if there was some link established between AMPAS and the exhibitors. Seeing as how AMPAS is made up of distributors, it's unlikely.
The rule has been, as long as I've known, that a single commercial showing in a motion picture theatre is sufficient for a picture to qualify for a nomination (aesthetics being another matter). That's why you'll frequently see the 'artier' pictures debut in a large East Side theatre during Christmas week.
And unless the majors think it would be to their advantage to fight the decision, it's unlikely they will. There's a significant amount of revenue realized from theatrical exhibition (I just won today's award for stating the flamingly obvious). It's much more difficult to pirate a film when it's shown in a theatre; and I think Napster has shown us that it's relatively easy to copy stuff off the web. So the majors would be protecting their own interests if they resisted exhibition on the Web.
OTOH, if they're debuting a picture on the Web, it's likely they believe it has no chance for the money-making nominations/awards. I mean, how many people, other than film geeks and maybe not even them, go see a movie because it won an Oscar for sound editing?
Anyway. Random thoughts.
10104. theDiva - 6/21/2000 3:27:06 PM
or in the case of video, they're actually moving electronic signals. I think. Only took one video production course.
10105. CalGal - 6/21/2000 3:29:37 PM
So the majors would be protecting their own interests if they resisted exhibition on the Web.
Yes, that's the main thing I see as making any such conspiracy unlikely.
The people most likely to benefit from Web distribution would be those making short films and charging for access--but I can't see why the requirement to put it on the big screen first would be that onerous.
Movies on video or DVD are no longer actual moving pictures, they're moving pixels.
But doesn't that mean that the new projection method, or whatever, would not be a moving picture? I forget what it is called right now. Ebert writes on it quite a bit, though.
10106. theDiva - 6/21/2000 3:36:58 PM
Yeah, I'd thought about that, too. But I don't think it's going to be an issue just yet. The technology is in its infancy in terms of implementation by the industry. I was concerned about disintegration of quality, but Rich tells me that the look is incredible and you can't tell the difference one bit.
WRT applying the rules to shorts and documentaries - I suppose they need a certain amount of consistency for parliamentary and appearance's sake. Let's face it - the awards are all about marketing and ego stroking. Noone in the bidness has any such illusions that they're primarily for artistic achievement. But there are hordes of people who think Oscar automatically means quality (she snorted, thinking of Titanic, Out of Africa....) And those hordes translate into bucks.
The point being, that this is a financially driven decision at bottom, IMO. Pixels vs. film is a secondary (if that) consideration.
10107. CalGal - 6/21/2000 3:41:43 PM
I like Out of Africa. (she sniffs). Although it wasn't the best film. Excellent chick film, though.
In saying it's financially-driven--you mean by the filmmakers and distributors themselves, yes?
10108. theDiva - 6/21/2000 3:43:32 PM
By the major distributors, certainly, and indirectly, by producers. IOW, the players.
And I left The English Patient off that list. If I ever see that film laying around, I'm going to kick the cans.
10109. theDiva - 6/21/2000 3:44:24 PM
I wish to God Richie would just sign up here already so we could get his perspective on this stuff.
10110. rubberducky - 6/21/2000 3:48:57 PM
Re: Message # 10103, theDiva.
"Movies on video or DVD are no longer actual moving pictures, they're moving pixels."
well, i don't understand. the celluloid is one frame after another. the "pictures" aren't moving at all -same as if i make a series of drawings on a note pad and flip thru the pages quickly ... so, i don't see how it is germane. it is the Celluloid Association...
I think you answered "And you could probably only prove protectionism if there was some link established between AMPAS and the exhibitors. Seeing as how AMPAS is made up of distributors, it's unlikely."
with
"And unless the majors think it would be to their advantage to fight the decision, it's unlikely they will. There's a significant amount of revenue realized from theatrical exhibition."
couldn't it be argued that the thing they are protecting is, in fact, this "significant" amount of revenue?
"OTOH, if they're debuting a picture on the Web, it's likely they believe it has no chance for the money-making nominations/awards."
i'd agree, but i'd like to see short films given the same appreciation that "feature" length films are given. this won't happen if movies have to be shown in the theaters for an oscar ...
10111. theDiva - 6/21/2000 3:53:19 PM
Ducks
Correct, they're not actually moving but giving the illusion of movement. But they are pictures. Remember Muybridge (sp?).
And they're protecting their own revenue, absolutely. But isn't protectionism when one sector of the market attempts to protect its customers from competition? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what that means.
And unless shorts start to become a significant money maker for the majors, they won't be given this kind of consideration by AMPAS.
Trust me on this one, these people are driven by the buck. Utterly.
10112. iiibbb - 6/21/2000 3:56:31 PM
Movies I've seen recently:
Gladiator ***1/2 --pretty good movie... not quite as good as Sparticus, but not bad.
The Messenger ** --too long
Corndog Man *1/2 -- just plain wierd
Fight Club *** -- violent, but the plot will keep you guessing.
Three Kings **1/2 -- violent, kinda a Kelly's Heros meets Pulp Fiction
Office Space *** -- Just plain funny, and excellent parody of life in cubicles.
Run Lola Run *** -- German w/subtitles... a decent plot although there is an awful lot of running in the movie that gets a bit tiresome. Soundtrack is good if you like techno.
Jackie Chan's new western (can't remember the title) **1/2 wait for the video... it isn't bad, lighthearted with a few chuckles.
10113. theDiva - 6/21/2000 3:57:35 PM
Corn Dog Man?
And you were surprised that it was weird?
10114. iiibbb - 6/21/2000 4:00:06 PM
I was forced to watch corndog man...
oh yes... I forgot about a cool Japanese Animae I saw recently
Ghost in the Shell ***1/2 One of the better ones I've ever seen if you like Animae.
10115. theDiva - 6/21/2000 4:01:59 PM
Ducks, Cal
I want to continue this conversation but I've got to run. Mebbe later this evening.
10116. CalGal - 6/21/2000 5:44:53 PM
3i3b,
Did you see my review of Shanghai West? I liked it too.
10117. iiibbb - 6/21/2000 5:53:33 PM
That was it CalGal... I didn't see your review, but yes it was pretty good. I use the 4* system with anything with **1/2 or better generally being worth the money to see.
Next on my list of movies I may take the time to see in the near future are...
Titan A/E -- I heard it's decent
X-men --Effects look good, probably one of my favorite comics ever.
Shaft -- A certain appeal... bu we'll see... 7$ is a lot for a movie.
10118. CalGal - 6/21/2000 5:56:45 PM
3i3b,
See Message # 10019 for my comments on Shanghai, and Message # 9994 for comments on Titan AE.
I pay $9 for a movie.
10119. iiibbb - 6/21/2000 6:11:24 PM
modestly useful site
http://upcomingmovies.com/
10120. dusty - 6/21/2000 7:14:51 PM
Diva
Thanks for weighing in.
Maybe I'm missing something. Judith was making the point that the theatrical experience is preferable to other options, and you are pointing out that there is a lot of revenue associated with theatre viewings.
These sound like arguments for requiring a viewing in a theatre.
I don't disagree.
What I fail to understand is the rationale that the first viewing must be in a theatre. (Or, I should say, fail to understand other than the obvious, protect the revenue of the theatres argument.)
10121. theDiva - 6/21/2000 10:24:09 PM
Ducks
You know, they actually are pictures that move...as the film passes through the projector, it's moving. These are the things that pass through my fevered brain as I drive home.
Dusty
Well, if the picture debuts anywhere but in a theatre, there's the possibility, as I mentioned, of it being easier to pirate the film and drain revenue.
As to your second point - believe me when I tell you that the relationship between distributors and exhibitors is one of friendly enemies. First and foremost, the distributors protect their own interests. If they could figure out a way to negotiate film settlements that didn't give the exhibs a dime, they'd do it. Instead, they do what's called a 90/10 split. The nut of the theatre is covered from the week's grosses; the remainder is then split distrib/exhib 90-10. Once the picture leaves its first run, or if the first run is long, after an initial, pre-negotiated period, the settlements go by percentage that the distrib negotiates based on how good the grosses are.
All of which is a way of saying that it's unlikely AMPAS would try to protect the exhibitor's revenue.
10122. theDiva - 6/21/2000 10:24:58 PM
or rather, unlikely that AMPAS' ruling is driven by the desire to protect the exhibitor. AFAIK, exhibs don't belong to AMPAS.
10123. CalGal - 6/21/2000 10:31:38 PM
Diva,
Exhibitors make much of their money from concessions, I've heard?
I agree that letting a movie debut anywhere else would slowly start to drain away from revenue.
Jack Valenti (yes, everyone hiss) wrote an editorial in the Times today reminding everyone that the problems hitting the music industry are just a few bandwidth expansions away.
10124. AceofSpades - 6/21/2000 10:35:16 PM
"What I fail to understand is the rationale that the first viewing must be in a theatre."
If the rule were not so, made-for-tv and made-for-cable movies would be eligible for Oscars.
Real Hollywood movies are, by definition, released *theatrically*, not over TV, and not over the Internet.
10125. theDiva - 6/21/2000 10:39:59 PM
Cal
Good God, yes. When I worked at RKO, I shared an office with the woman whose boss ran the concessions division. They never, ever lost money. They'd charge a buck for a soda that cost them, including labor, a quarter to sell. Our section was continually moaning about declining revenue, but never concessions.
And I'm not surprised that Valenti said that. When the industry finally moves to the all-digital format, eliminating a huge section of the subsidiary industries, the potential for bootlegging will increase tremendously. Right now it's pretty hard to conceal a movie - two enormous cans, sixty pounds each? But slip a disc in your pocket? No problem. IAC, it's going to effect a profound change in the way the industry runs things day to day.
10126. theDiva - 6/21/2000 10:40:45 PM
Ace
Geez. You're right. How'd I miss that?
10127. theDiva - 6/21/2000 10:43:02 PM
off topic.
well, fuck. The Yanks lost.
/off topic.
10128. theDiva - 6/21/2000 10:47:58 PM
youse pay $7-9 for a movie? Lord, I'm glad I live in the burbs. $5.75, $3 before 6 pm. And yer feet don't even stick to the floor. But there's a Hoyt's up at the other end of the county that charges $8. They have reclining seats. And hot towels dispensed by geishas, I presume.
10129. EricCartman - 6/21/2000 10:59:17 PM
If the rule were not so, made-for-tv and made-for-cable movies would be eligible for Oscars.
So? Cable movies rise to Hollywood standards, with increasing frequency. No doubt though, if they were allowed to compete against studio films in the big awards shows, that would interfere with the ego stroking and all.
And who knows, maybe if TV networks could compete in that arena, they might try more often to rise above the schlocky disease-of-the-week fare they usually truck in.
I dunno, I understand the rationale at work there, it just seems that they're getting awful precious for no particularly good reason.
10130. AceofSpades - 6/21/2000 11:08:51 PM
"So? Cable movies rise to Hollywood standards, with increasing frequency."
Like? When? Exactly?
Cable and TV movies look *nothing* like Hollywood movies. They may have good scripts (though, usually, they suck much worse than theatrical releases) but the production values, the cheap-ass film, the one or two take takes, etc., are immediately apparent.
"No doubt though, if they were allowed to compete against studio films in the big awards shows, that would interfere with the ego stroking and all. "
Silliness. This is like getting all hot and bothered that a Dog Show won't allow cats. The Oscars are, and always have been, for theatrical releases.
And theatrical releases only.
Shall we allow live plays next, perhaps? How about TV series?
This is ludicrous. Now extreme "democracy" demands that a private club can't even set its own rules and terms of membership.
THere are awards for TV. They're called the Emmys. And for Cable. They're called the Ace awards (or used to be-- maybe they're defunct). One day we will have Internet awards.
My first nominee? Kayla Keevage Anal.
"And who knows, maybe if TV networks could compete in that arena, they might try more often to rise above the schlocky disease-of-the-week fare they usually truck in."
Yeah, right.
TV specializes in those kinds of movies because women like them. The Lifetime channel shows them 24/7. My girlfriend loves them.
10131. AceofSpades - 6/21/2000 11:09:00 PM
"I dunno, I understand the rationale at work there, it just seems that they're getting awful precious for no particularly good reason."
They're not "getting" precious. This has been the rule for seventy years. Movies which won't make a dime in general release are often released in two or three theaters for one weekend just to qualify for the Oscars.
Internet "movies" are eligible for the Oscars if they are shown just once or twice in a real-life physical theater. Not much of a hardship.
10132. AceofSpades - 6/21/2000 11:17:28 PM
Incidentally, fuck internet movies.
Theatrical (Oscar-eligible) movies have a prestige that no other form of mass entertainment approaches. Compare viewership & general interest & pomp of the Oscars versus the Emmys.
Get it?
The Oscars have created and maintained a great deal of prestige and interest in their little butt-fuck show. I don't dig the Oscars, but they are *sucessful.*
Now--
Please explain why they should change their rules, and jeopardize that prestige, excitement, and interest.
And explain why they should let Internet movies free-ride on what they have created and maintained for seventy years.
The AFL couldn't join the NFL right away. Nope. The AFL had to prove it was somewhere on the same level as the NFL before a merger could happen.
If TV and Internet releases gain the prestige of the 1966 AFL, they will one day be invited into the Big Game.
Until then, the pipsqueaks will just have to play in their own bush league.
10133. CalGal - 6/21/2000 11:18:56 PM
Diva,
Ha. I thought the same thing when I read Ace's post. Couldn't believe I forgot about that.
And it's 9.50 at the Metreon in the City, but 8.75 minimum elsewhere. Spawn is proud of his "adult" status, but I keep on telling him to get his damn student id and give his mother a break.
10134. EricCartman - 6/21/2000 11:45:39 PM
This is like getting all hot and bothered that a Dog Show won't allow cats. The Oscars are, and always have been, for theatrical releases.
Oh hell, I'm not "hot and bothered" in the least. Really. You want to see irritated, let's talk about the Grammys. But the Oscars, feh. I can take 'em or leave 'em; the only year I bothered to watch more than an hour of any particular show was the disaster Letterman hosted. Other than that, it's your basic garden-variety circle-jerk -- I watch for the main categories and that's about it.
Shall we allow live plays next, perhaps? How about TV series? This is ludicrous. Now extreme "democracy" demands that a private club can't even set its own rules and terms of membership.
No. Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like the Academy was taking a stand that a movie couldn't be eligible if it appeared on the Internet, even if it later went into a conventional theatrical release. That is the quintessence of getting precious -- insisting on the traditional protocol of pomp and extraneous splendiference (to borrow a Don King-ism), regardless of the actual content.
There are awards....for Cable. They're called the Ace awards (or used to be-- maybe they're defunct).
Yeah, I remember those --Letterman used to pass them out to members of his studio audience. It was a grey spade on a plaque. Loads o' prestige there. Say....Cable Ace Awards, Ace of Spades....naw, couldn't be. Could it?
My first nominee? Kayla Kleevage Anal.
Heh. The Jenny McCarthy gang-bang video is pretty bueno too.
10135. EricCartman - 6/21/2000 11:46:00 PM
The Oscars have created and maintained a great deal of prestige and interest in their little butt-fuck show. I don't dig the Oscars, but they are *successful.*
True. I'm just wondering at the motivation for pre-emptively disqualifying anyone just for taking advantage of available technology. Is it really to preserve the splendiferous fabulousness of the whole grand wazoo, or is it to protect bloated studio budgets, once the little people can produce their own turd for one-millionth of what it costs Paramount or whoever?
Please explain why they should change their rules, and jeopardize that prestige, excitement, and interest.
Hell, I don't really care if they do or not.
And explain why they should let Internet movies free-ride on what they have created and maintained for seventy years.
It's entirely in the studios' self-interest to disallow that sort of participation, just as it would make no sense for the Granny Awards to suddenly start handing out trophies to indie musicians. Since the whole point is to pad the majors' bankrolls by reminding fans just how wonderful they are, why throw a bone to the Joe Blows of the world?
The AFL couldn't join the NFL right away. Nope. The AFL had to prove it was somewhere on the same level as the NFL before a merger could happen....If TV and Internet releases gain the prestige of the 1966 AFL, they will one day be invited into the Big Game.
Well, I have faith in you anyway, buddy. I say that you, with a cheap digital camera, a blow-up doll, and a dream, could revolutionize things, and become the Internet Al Davis to broker that sort of AFL/NFL merger.
10136. AceofSpades - 6/21/2000 11:50:19 PM
Cartman,
Well, I don't care about the issue, either, and I'm rather surprised people even discuss it.
But the Oscars have been theatrical-release-first-only for seventy years. They did not change the rules for television, and that was a much more transforming new technology than this little electronic coffee klatch called the Internet.
So--
Fuck the fucking internet. Fuck it right in the fucking ear.
Internet movies will suck, anyway.
And if someone makes an Oscar-worthy Internet movie--
Well they'll just have to go through the *MAJOR* hassel of releasing it in one theater in New York, and one theater in LA, for one weekend before distributing it on-line.
Call me underwhelmed by the colossal cock-block the Oscars are imposing.
10137. AceofSpades - 6/21/2000 11:53:28 PM
Now for something much more important...
OH, YEAHHHHHHHHH, BABY!!!!
10138. EricCartman - 6/22/2000 12:06:04 AM
Is that the new edition DMG? Are they still going by the revised pussy rules, where you can't have evil characters and there's no assassin class?
I tell ya, I'm still irritated at the nervous nellies who pressured TSR back in the day -- the one book I was never able to get was the original Deities & Demigods, with the Cthulhu Mythos in it. I've heard that version will fetch a couple of bills nowadays.
10139. AceofSpades - 6/22/2000 12:10:41 AM
YEAH, NEW ADDITION, BABY!!! WHOO-HOOO!!! ASSASSINS ARE BACK!!! DEVILS ARE BACK!!! MY TWELTH LEVEL BARBARIAN ARCHER WILL DEFEAT THE ARCHLICH VECNA AT LAST!!! YEEE-HAWWWWW!!!
Ummmmm...
Uh...
Cal, can you delete all this?
10140. CalGal - 6/22/2000 1:12:51 AM
No. Your geek-jism shall stain this thread for all eternity.
10141. CalGal - 6/22/2000 1:16:58 AM
Ohio, Spawn and I just had a ball watching Modern Times. Thank you so much for cluing me in.
10142. CalGal - 6/22/2000 1:40:41 AM
Livia's Legacy: How Will It Impact "Sopranos" Future?.
10143. Fraaankster - 6/22/2000 1:47:01 AM
(sigh) I keep dreaming that one day I'll come in here to find someone posted that Sportsnight was given a new life in some fledging network.
I didn't get to see it that often, but what I saw, I really did enjoy. Great characters, along with some "insight" into the fast pace world of producing a nightly sports show.
( I think I overdid the boiling on the angelhair tonight -- way too bland for my tastes )
10144. Fraaankster - 6/22/2000 1:48:57 AM
I don't receive HBO. I wish I did to see what all this hype about The Sopranos is all about ?
10145. CalGal - 6/22/2000 2:01:59 AM
You barely threaten angel-hair, although Diva would be better at providing advice.
SportsNight was great the first year; I didn't care for the second season.
Anyone see L&O tonight? It was a rerun, but then I missed a lot of this season. Intriguing premise--the mob was the injured party, poor babies.
10146. EricCartman - 6/22/2000 2:02:16 AM
Frank:
Be careful what you wish for -- the WB might pick up SportsNight and turn it into an "urban"/pro wrestling show.
As for Sopranos, you definitely have to check the first season first -- this last season wasn't up to that standard.
10147. CalGal - 6/22/2000 2:04:15 AM
Oh, that reminds me, I should be watching the reruns. I missed a good bit of the second season.
And now, The General is on! TCM just rocks, I swear.
10148. Fraaankster - 6/22/2000 2:18:40 AM
Eric,
Hahaha! What is with you and wrestling ?
It might have had a sophomore jinx of sort, Cal, but it still was better than everything else that was offered imo.
I actually keep hoping that the SciFi network will look back and redo the old Irwin Allen Time Tunnel series. The copycat shows that followed just never quite did for my imagination as well as Tony and Doug did. For example, the show which had them landing on the deck of the Titanic on April 13th 1914(?) still exists vividly in my mind.
10149. CalGal - 6/22/2000 2:20:53 AM
When I was in Hawaii, I found myself watching Quantum Leap on the SciFi channel. That show was better than it should have been.
10150. Fraaankster - 6/22/2000 2:29:28 AM
Yes, Quantum Leap and the other one, Chasers(?) are the ones I was refering to. Suspending my belief just didn't help cut it with either show .They bored me.
...Nothing wrestles with the imagination more than traveling through time.
10151. Fraaankster - 6/22/2000 2:47:26 AM
G'night, guys!
10152. EricCartman - 6/22/2000 2:56:12 AM
Frank:
What is with you and wrestling?
Heh. Depends on what kind. If it's a bunch of scripted bellowing from fat guys in the throes of roid rage, count me out. Life's too short. As for "real" wrestling, a couple of obsessive (watching every bit they eat so they can stay in their weight bracket) guys grappling and groping on a rubber mat....no thanks. No fucking thanks. Waaaay too homoerotic for my delicate constitution.
No, all you need for REAL wrestling entertainment is two buxom babes, scantily clad, a decent-sized kiddie wading pool, and a few gallons of either cooking oil, corn syrup, mud, soapy water, or chocolate pudding. Plus beer for the spectators.
That, my friend, is what true wrestling is and always will be about -- half-naked chicks with big cans, exploring the boundaries of their athleticism and their sexuality.
And when the Cartman Channel finally hits your satellite network/local cable provider, you can thank your lucky stars that finally, finally, someone presents wrestling 24/7 in the manner it was always intended to be presented. Not fat guys in tights, not huge Japanese fuckers in diapers belly-bouncing each other around the ring.
Dig it, Frankie. Women. Mud. Beer. Only $49.95/month. Get it now, and receive a free "What Would Bat Boy Do?" T-shirt, while supplies last.
10153. rubberducky - 6/22/2000 8:03:26 AM
Re: Message # 10132 AceofSpades.
"prestige"
*snicker*
what a buncha hookem
10154. theDiva - 6/22/2000 8:06:10 AM
Ducks
I'm still trying to get past the whole D&D thing.
*snerk*
10155. rubberducky - 6/22/2000 8:10:37 AM
Re: Message # 10121, theDiva.
"You know, they actually are pictures that move...as the film passes through the projector, it's moving. These are the things that pass through my fevered brain as I drive home."
well, it's a small point, but the film is moving, not the pictures. it's, again, like the pad of paper analogy. the medium is moving, not the object of the medium
as to your larger points, they are all taken. the comment that started all of this was my desire to see Oscar open itself up to new and, eventually, better ways of presenting movies. regardless of Ace's "fuck the internet" spasm - it will eventually be the way in which such films are watched by the majority of the population. it's sad that the premier movie awards will have to be drug kicking and screaming into modern times.
10156. theDiva - 6/22/2000 8:15:02 AM
Ducks
This is Oscar we're talking about here. The organization whose membership gave, what, 10 awards to Ti-Frickin'-tanic. What does that tell you?
10157. rubberducky - 6/22/2000 8:19:56 AM
ah
point taken
10158. OhioSTOPAS - 6/22/2000 12:57:37 PM
Cal (Message # 10141): You're very welcome.
I would have watched it too, but I was surfing up and down the dial, looking for The Cartman Channel.
10159. JudithAtHome - 6/22/2000 1:16:05 PM
I read somewhere that SportsNight will not be picked up by HBO. No one else has shown an interest so it looks as though it is history.
10160. marshame - 6/22/2000 2:07:31 PM
Well, I'm relieved that no-one has posted who got booted off the island last night in Survivor, since I haven't had a chance to see it yet.
10161. EricCartman - 6/22/2000 8:25:29 PM
Man, I finally broke down and decided to see what all the hoo-ha was about, and watched Survivor. After about 20 minutes, I was hoping that maybe this was one of those atolls where the Frogs do their nuke testing, and they'd fry these assholes. I had to turn it at that point, especially after my wife turned to me and said, "You know, this is one of those shows that makes you think that maybe the Amish have a point."
But I do enjoy the rat- and grub-eating things; it's sorta reminiscent of the old drunken frat boy game, "What Would You Do For A Million Bucks?" Generally this game devolves into pondering whether one would either have sex with another guy, or with a farm animal, for a pile of cash. So I'm wondering why one of these dorks didn't just blow Les Moonves, or fuck a goat, and get it over with.
I dunno, I just don't get the whole "reality TV" thing, I guess. They're not "real" people, and they're not in a "real" situation. The whole thing is every bit as contrived as any sitcom, and just as manipulative, thanks to creative editing.
Besides, if real people were entertaining to watch, why have a TV in the first place? Just go over to your neighbors' house and watch 'em fight. (That's really why people watch things like The Real World, to see the characters either fighting or fucking.)
10162. EricCartman - 6/22/2000 8:31:03 PM
Ohio:
When the time comes, and I go looking for VC backing to help make my dream of the Cartman Channel come true, I will point to folks like you, Frank, Jack, and Ace as evidence of demand for the service.
I can't make it happen without folks like yourself, who just want their basic right of drinking beer and watching chicks with huge knockers wallow in cooking oil. That's what makes this country great.
10163. AceofSpades - 6/22/2000 10:04:57 PM
Dennis Miller a surprise addition to MNF
ESPN.com news services
NEW YORK -- Dan Fouts and Dennis Miller will join play-by-play announcer Al Michaels as analysts in ABC's NFL Monday Night Football broadcast booth, and Melissa Stark and Eric Dickerson will be the sideline reporters for the popular program, producer Don Ohlmeyer announced Thursday.
(this is TELEVISION, Cal.)
10164. CalGal - 6/22/2000 10:32:33 PM
Ace,
Yes, I know. Why would you think I would complain?
10165. CalGal - 6/22/2000 10:52:21 PM
Good lord, you weren't kidding.
10166. EricCartman - 6/22/2000 10:52:30 PM
Dennis Miller doing MNF play-by-play??? Sounds like an SNL skit:
Easy, cha-cha. I haven't seen hack-and-slash work like this since OJ's magnum opus. Hee hee! Look at this guy in the fuckin' crowd -- he's still tryin' ta figure out why the Lambs cut Dieter Brock....
And so on. This should be interesting. I've seen Miller interview Steve Young before, and he doesn't seem like he knows a hell of a lot about football.
10167. Indiana Jones - 6/22/2000 10:59:26 PM
While on my trip, I stayed at a hotel with HBO, so I finally got to see Sex and the City. Bleah, not sexy, not interesting, just bleah. Why all the hype?
And I also saw Dennis Miller interviewing Jon Lovitz because his real guest didn't show up. Excruciatingly bleah.
Every time I get a peek at cable I think my Internet fees are much better spent.
10168. AceofSpades - 6/22/2000 11:11:10 PM
". I've seen Miller interview Steve Young before, and he doesn't seem like he knows a hell of a lot about football."
My main interest is to see how quickly an armchair analyst can be briefed and cheated up to "pro sportscaster level." I imagine it's not all *that* difficult. Each man seems stocked with various quotes and facts which they read at appropriate time; but the research is done by a staff, I'd imagine.
My choice for MNF? John Fucking MacEnroe. The best commentator on the air, ever, bar none. Smart, articulate, and gifted with a dry, occasionally poisonous wit.
Does he know anything about football?
Who cares. He knows about athleticism and sport and competition. He can fake the rest.
10169. EricCartman - 6/22/2000 11:31:36 PM
I think McEnroe would be terrific. I also thought Rush Limbaugh wouldn't have been at all bad. He used to talk some ball on his short-lived TV show.
I agree that pretty much anyone can be brought up to snuff fairly quickly. But I do get irritated when the sportscasters make dumb mistakes, like fucking up the player's name, or spotting the wrong player. I figure if I can keep all the numbers and formations straight, without any cheat sheets, watching five or six different games every Sunday (love that DSS package), while gorging on beer, anybody can do it. And the fact that Pat Summerall still works is proof of that point; the guy usually sounds even more shitfaced than Harry Caray.
Miller might be OK; it'll definitely be interesting to watch. And Fouts is already pretty good. But yeah, McEnroe -- that would be really cool.
10170. AceofSpades - 6/22/2000 11:33:56 PM
"or spotting the wrong player"
You're being a nitwit. YOU are watching on zoom-in television cameras. THEY are watching through a window in the mezzanine.
(I think; why watch a fucking game on tv when you have box seats on the fifty yard line?)
From that distance, it's easy to confuse an "89" with a "93."
10171. EricCartman - 6/22/2000 11:46:41 PM
Ace:
I'd be amazed if they didn't have a monitor or two in the booth. I don't know about other stadiums, but I figure they're more or less the same; I've had seats on the 50-yard line, in front, at Oakland Coliseum, and it is difficult to see numbers.
10172. AceofSpades - 6/22/2000 11:50:46 PM
Cart:
They have lots of monitors (that's how they do that writing-on-the-screen thingee), and how they watch instant replay.
But who the fuck would watch on a monitor when you have huge box seats on the fifty yard line?
10173. AceofSpades - 6/22/2000 11:52:01 PM
The point is, when they broadcast in real time, they're watching the actual field, not the monitors.
Or at least-- I'd be. You can see the game better, at least in terms of following the action yourself. You can't zoom in with the naked eye, but you're not limited by a camera's perspective.
10174. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 12:18:00 AM
Sure, if I had mezzanine-level seats at the 50, I'd much rather watch the field than a monitor. Ground-level seats at the 50 are overrated, even though we were directly behind the Raiders' bench, and right next to the players' entry tunnel (for both teams).
So at least I got to remind Tony Banks in person what a fumble-fuck he was. And I got to meet Jack Tatum. The fucking Assassin. How fucking cool is that; he was my idol when I was a kid. Kinda like if you got to meet Al D'Amato or Rudy Giuliani.
Anyway, yes, the occasional misread uniform numeral is certainly understandable. I mean the repeated doughhead mistakes, like just not knowing which player is which. I know it seems like a very nit-picky thing, but again -- these guys are paid a lot of fucking money to say what a lot of blue-collar Joes know for free. If I can do it, how fucking hard can it be?
But I really like a sportscaster that can break a play down by its formation and play design, and show you what each guy is doing, especially on defensive plays. It's an art form, when done right. Anyone can sit up there and be a fucking smartass.
10175. labwabbit - 6/23/2000 12:26:30 AM
Hello CalGal....
Long...looooong....time my sweet intp.
10176. CalGal - 6/23/2000 12:28:07 AM
Hey! Good to see you! Where've you been? (answer in the Cafe)
10177. AceofSpades - 6/23/2000 12:29:54 AM
I don't know, Cart. I don't remember having too many problems with these off-the-cuff gaffes. But then, I support Bush.
There are announcers who are bad, but for other reasons.
One big reason for announcer badness:
The 20/20 hindsight idiocy. For example, when a play works: "And that's exactly what they had to do. The perfect call, perfectly executed. Great play-calling."
If the same play hadn't worked: "You just don't do that. Not with this much time remaining. You don't take those kinds of risks. I don't know what Coach Blank was thinking."
Most of the time they have nothing to fucking say, but they blast away anyway. I remember Dan Dierdorf being a big offender on this count. Whatever was happening at that moment, that was the fucking story of the game. Luke Pettigout makes a tackle? "This kid is something else. He's got heck of a future. What a stop." Someone breaks Luke Pettigout's tackle? "This kid fucking sucks my hairy ass." Etc.
10178. AceofSpades - 6/23/2000 12:34:21 AM
One type of announcer I like: The Home Team Hack who has a sense of Humor about his Hackery.
Phil McConkey, ex-giant great, is a rabid home-team hack when he announces for the Giants. Every whistle, I mean EVERY whistle, called against the Giants is a "bad call." Every whistle NOT called against the opponents is a "terrible call." He's absolutely preposterous.
But sometimes he's funny. One time he was yelling and bitching and moaning about a "terrible" interference call called against the Giants, and then, as they're playing the instant replay, he sees: The Giants fucking mugged the guy. It isn't even close.
And he sort of trails off, then starts chuckling as we witness this pro-sports version of Wilding, and then, chuckling more, AGAIN asserts that this is a "terrible" call, and that it's ticky-tack, and "what, are we playing powder puff here?"
10179. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 12:35:40 AM
Ace:
You know, the more I think about it, the more I think I have a decent idea for a different kind of sports commentary: Instead of a couple of washed-up hacks like Madden and Summerall (though Madden is good breaking down play designs at times), or retired players, spouting tired-ass stock phrases and doing sloppy punch-clock work, what if you had actual fans, watching a set of monitors covering most angles, and doing their own analyses?
Lots of fans are very knowledgeable about their teams and about football in general, and some of those, just by the law of averages, would have some aptitude for that sort of work. And I think it would add something to the flavor of the game, where some of these guys really are more of a distraction. I know I could do a Raiders game, easy. I've seen some of your commentary, you could probably pull off a Giants game. A knowledgeable fan would add some passion to the commentary, something sorely lacking from the usual Sunday-afternoon hackery.
I'm telling you, what with the "reality" trend in TV, and what with it being a perfect way to trim inflated sportscasters' salaries, I bet you see something like this within the next few years. You heard it here first. Fan-casters -- an idea whose time has come. A bunch of regular Joes, sitting on some couches, drinking beer, eating pizza, watching a fucking game and praising and slamming as fans do.
10180. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 12:41:03 AM
Message # 10178 & Message # 10179:
True. Too often it's just a basic fact that the announcer's getting paid to speak, so he has to say something, no matter how trite or asinine. Dierdorf was pretty bad about that shit, I agree, but he gets passionate about it, the way Madden does. That can be fun sometimes, when they just fluster themselves into a total babble, just an endless stream of aphorisms: "What a great play, this kid is something else to watch, he's really got something special, he reminds me of so-and-so, etc."
Phil McConkey? Wow, you are OG Giants, aren't you? Haven't heard that name since the Dieter Brock era, I don't think.
10181. CalGal - 6/23/2000 12:44:08 AM
what if you had actual fans, watching a set of monitors covering most angles, and doing their own analyses?
According to Miller, that's what he intends to do.
10182. AceofSpades - 6/23/2000 12:44:53 AM
I actually don't know nearly enough about football to call a game. Nowhere close. I don't fucking understand receiver routes or quaterback reads or coverages what the hell goes on in the lines.
Granted, if I had six months to study, I'd know a decent amount. But right off the street? No way. My coverage would be: "Collins hands off to whoever the fuck is playing running back this down. He's tackled at the line. What a fucking surprise. A Giant runner tackled at the line for a two-yard-gain. Wow, we don't see too many of those. Okay. Collins takes the snap... he sees Toomer sort of open. As open as he ever is. He throws... right to Toomer's feet. Incomplete. Yeahp. He must have called that super-J-38 audible we've been hearing so much about: Throw the ball behind the receiver, right at his feet. They're trying to really work that into the offence this year. Okay. Third down. Shotgun formation, like that fucking matters. Collins looks downfield... and he dumps off to his running back, whoever the fuck it is. There you go. Right in the shin. Incomplete. Another fucking Super-J-38 audible. Beautiful playcalling.
Punt. Here's the hangtime clock, like that fucking means anything."
10183. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 12:53:39 AM
OK, then where did I get the notion that you had some football knowledge? Maybe you cribbed from someone and I thought it was yours.
BTW, who is the Giants' RB this week? Have they brought Ottis Anderson out of retirement yet?
10184. CalGal - 6/23/2000 12:55:14 AM
OK, then where did I get the notion that you had some football knowledge?
You are probably thinking of my 12-year-old. It is, after all, easy to get them confused.
10185. AceofSpades - 6/23/2000 12:58:06 AM
Cart:
I know *some*. But I played linebacker and RB, and I had no fucking idea what the receivers or DB's were doing. None. Had no idea how all the pieces fit together.
I sort of know what the lines do, because it's so fucking stupid and simple: They push each other. Sometimes they'll "twist" or whatnot, but all defensive stunts are conceptually simple. Moronic, even.
I do know various Receiver routes, but I swear to god, I don't know what the DB's do. I don't know how they choose which man they're covering, or if they're playing soft or close, or whatever. I remember that, based on how the offense lined up, the cornerbacks would shout either "cloud" or "sky" behind me, which determined some sort of coverage, but I don't know what it meant.
10186. AceofSpades - 6/23/2000 12:59:49 AM
"Cloud cloud cloud cloud!"
"Sky sky sky sky!"
What did this mean? I didn't know then, and I don't know now.
10187. DaveM - 6/23/2000 1:02:45 AM
Ace -
I have an incredibly hard time imagining your online persona playing football.
10188. DaveM - 6/23/2000 1:05:03 AM
I've just always thought of you as a golfer.
10189. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 1:14:02 AM
Cal Message # 10184:
Hahahaha! Say, how is the upcoming Niners season looking to Spawn? 4-12 last year; I say they go 3-13 this year. Seriously. I'll even pick the teams they beat -- the Falcons, the Aints, and the Cards, all in SF.
10190. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 1:14:33 AM
Ace:
I was recruited in HS, and wanted to play, but lived too far out of town and didn't have reliable transportation to make all the practices and games. I wanted to be a DB or WR, but was way too slow, so I worked out a bit at LB/TE.
From what I remember, "cloud" is mid zone, and "sky" is deep man, with the corners playing way off the receivers. In cloud, the CB would let the safety cover the WR if he runs deep enough, but in sky they keep dogging the WR.
There are a couple of play diagram sites; it's a dead giveaway on my geekiness that I actually find that stuff fascinating. LB defense reads are interesting too; LBs have play names like "Sam", "Mike", and "Will".
10191. AceofSpades - 6/23/2000 1:16:28 AM
Strong, Middle, Weak.
10192. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 1:26:46 AM
Right.
10193. CalGal - 6/23/2000 1:34:50 AM
Cart--Spawn is leaving you a detailed response in Sports.
10194. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 1:42:47 AM
Uh-oh.
10195. CalGal - 6/23/2000 1:50:30 AM
No, you didn't unleash the rage. He just wanted to provide a detailed answer, and I didn't want my thread to disintegrate into a sports line.
10196. CalGal - 6/23/2000 1:51:30 AM
My god, I left the TV on some Showtime channel and a movie with Sean Young and Dylan Walsh came on. Young looks shit awful.
10197. EricCartman - 6/23/2000 2:07:13 AM
Spawn did pretty good with the analysis, Cal. Actually, I like it when I can get another fan worked up about their team.
As for Sean Young, she has really let herself go, hasn't she? Last movie I saw of hers, she looked like she had a serious coke problem or something. And the movie wasn't about her character having a coke problem.
10198. CalGal - 6/23/2000 2:46:24 AM
He is apparently fairly well-informed about both football and baseball, from the way I see men react to his comments--they always seem a bit surprised that they don't have to talk down to him.
Writing frustrates him, because his skill level is a good five or six years behind his verbal abilities (which are at about college level). He rewrote his responses to you several times--he hates the effort, but not as much as he hates the sound of his first drafts (especially here "in public", as he calls it). And of course, on a subject he cares about, he has to sound just right. (the lack of capitalization is a matter of style--all the kids on freezone do it.)
That is exactly what Young looks like--haggard and drug-ridden. I've heard she is a bitch, and apart from Cousins, I can't think of a movie that I've enjoyed her in. Still, it's sad to see anyone that deteriorated.
10199. Cellar Door - 6/23/2000 9:26:46 AM
10200. CalGal - 6/23/2000 6:12:04 PM
Me, Myself, and Irene is getting so-so reviews. Ebert hated it, no one else gave it better than mixed--there are a few funny parts, but it apparently makes Something About Mary look tasteful.
On the other hand, the reviews on Chicken Run seem damn near unanimous: Ebert, the Times, the Post, EW, Time, and everyone else I could find absolutely loved it. It is apparently much more mainstream than Wallace and Gromit, but still excellent. If your kids are younger than 8, consider keeping them at home until you've seen it.
10202. KuligintheHooligan - 6/24/2000 11:58:54 AM
My wife and I rented "The World is not Enough" last night. I really love James Bond, but this movie lacked something for me. I had wanted to see this movie in the cinema but missed it. Now I am glad that I did. I really liked Golden Eye and the one before this one, was it "Tomorrow Never Dies," but this one just lacked a certain punch.
And I recall the discussion earlier about Denise Richards. I too found myself wondering how on earth she got cast for the movie. On the other hand, I didn't mind looking at her, although her exaggerated facial features do make her look, upon "staring" at her, a bit odd.
10203. Cellar Door - 6/24/2000 12:20:05 PM
Been seeing a Whole Mess 'o Gay movies for the upcoming festivals. "Urbania" is excellent. Based on a play, it's anevocation of "Urban Legends" used as a running subtext for a Long Dark Night of the Soul story about a guy trying to come to grips with the death of his lover in a gay-bashing incident. Dan Futterman (the straight son in "The Bird Cage") stars, and Alan Cumming is featured.
Also of interest a French Canadian film called "Full Throttle" about desperate white trash lives. Couldn't understand what the film was doing in the festival line up at all until the hero's bisexuality suddenly erupts 40 minutes in. The Butchest Man in the History of the Cinema -- Gay or Straight --plugs him ina Memorable Moment that I'll be rerunning in my own mental Cinematheque for some time to come. The Hunk is played by an actor named Patrice Godin. He's the first thing to take my mind off of Jude Law in months.
10204. EricCartman - 6/25/2000 4:45:29 PM
Cal Message # 10198:
I agree that Young has never been a terribly good actress. She was cute in Stripes, and while attractive in No Way Out, projected that pain-in-the-ass vibe that she has become notorious for. Plus the rumor about her threatening/kidnaping Tim Burton for the Catwoman role in Batman Returns sealed her rep as a nutjob. And if you've ever read an interview with her, you know that rumors don't really matter -- she's an idiot, and a goofy one at that.
If you're looking for a quick, painless, entertaining read, I highly recommend Joe Queenan's If You're Talking to Me, Your Career Must Be In Trouble. I picked up a hardbound copy in the bargain bin at Barnes & Noble for $1.99. Very funny, scathing look at various Hollyweird inhabitants and denizens. The Sean Young chapter is very nearly as funny as the Streisand one. Ditzy, neurotic, obsessive, and quite possibly dangerous -- Young, I mean, though now that I think of it, that description seems apt for Babs as well. Cool stuff.
Cellar:
OK, Sean definitely looks pretty good in your photo there. Maybe she's cleaned up a bit, who knows. Last few movies I've spotted her in, which had "direct to video/cable" written all over them, two street phrases came to mind: "tore up from the floor up" and "ridden hard and put away wet".
10205. LadyChaos - 6/25/2000 4:57:34 PM
Eric,
I once had to watch tens of thousands of feet of raw footage of Sean Young naken, pretending to have sex with Patrick Bergen. Not a pretty sight by any means.
All,
I finally saw Gladiator, last night. It was awful. The action sequences were the worst. The editor should be taken out and shot. The CG-enhanced shots of ancient Rome were cheesy as hell. Too bad. It could have been a nice picture in the hands of a young David Lean - whoever that might have been. Ridley Scott just proves once again that advertising directors should not do action pics.
10206. LadyChaos - 6/25/2000 4:58:38 PM
"naken" = "naked"
10207. CalGal - 6/25/2000 5:02:39 PM
Lady,
Lord, what did you do to deserve such punishment?
10208. LadyChaos - 6/25/2000 5:06:26 PM
CalGal,
You mean Sean Young, or Gladiator?
Sean Young was back in my assistant film-editor days in L.A. And Eric's right: Young's an idiot.
Gladiator was drunken curiosity. I knew that it was going to be bad, just from the few bits I'd seen from the trailer, and I should have avoided it.
10209. CalGal - 6/25/2000 5:10:35 PM
Ha. No, I meant Sean Young. I thought Gladiator was decent.
10210. LadyChaos - 6/25/2000 5:18:55 PM
Gladiator showed nothing but contempt for the crafts of directing and editing - typical of the current trend of smash-cut music video and commercials editing. Someone should inform Lynne that if he really wants the audience to understand and fully enjoy a battle sequence, it really does matter where he places his camera in relation to the actors. Lynne also seemed to be aping Spielberg's use of a strobing camera effect in Private Ryan, but in this context is was bizarre and wholly unmotivated by the setting. The constant shifts in camera speed from one shot to the next were meaningless and confusing. Even in the film's more quiet moments, Lynne constantly jumped the stage line and left me disoriented as to the spacial relationships between characters.
All in all, Gladiator was a terrible waste of production resources. I must have known at least ten guys in film school who could have done better, much better.
10211. Cellar Door - 6/25/2000 5:23:24 PM
You didn't even like Russell Crowe?
10212. EricCartman - 6/25/2000 5:26:54 PM
Chaos:
I once had to watch tens of thousands of feet of raw footage of Sean Young naken, pretending to have sex with Patrick Bergen. Not a pretty sight by any means.
I suppose it depends on the position. As an actress, though, she seems to think wide-eyed big-voiced cranked-up scenery-chewing is synonymous with "passion". I can just imagine her approach to an actual sex scene. If I were in Bergin's place, I'd just let her be on top and call the shots. Probably much easier that way; she doesn't seem the type who could take a hint when a guy tries to move her from one position to the next.
Haven't seen Gladiator yet, but it sounds like a garden-variety circle jerk, with the required distractionary bells and whistles. But I like Crowe, whose presence seems to transcend his Everyman looks, so I'll probably catch it on PPV, which will likely be around the end of football season.
10213. LadyChaos - 6/25/2000 5:37:38 PM
Cellar,
I liked Crowe, but his performance was one of many wasted resources. He was like a drifting prop in search of an appropriate setting. Only a director who understood how to direct action could have made this a worthwhile effort. A better writer certainly wouldn't have hurt, either.
10214. AceofSpades - 6/25/2000 5:58:43 PM
Lynne? The director was Ridley Scott.
10215. LadyChaos - 6/25/2000 6:06:48 PM
I'm sorry. Ridley Scott. I sometimes get his name mixed up with Adrian Lynne, who did Fatal Attraction, etc.
'Must have been the beer.
10216. AceofSpades - 6/25/2000 6:07:57 PM
I know who Adrian Lynne is. He does alleged "thrillers."
10217. LadyChaos - 6/25/2000 6:12:09 PM
In a strange way, Gladiator points up the reason why Alien seemed to work. Scott's inability to orient the audience as to a character's relative position in the scene added to the suspense in Alien, because we were never sure where the actor was, and whether the Alien might be nearby. But it now appears in hindsight to have been unintentional.
10218. Uzmakk - 6/25/2000 7:19:44 PM
Saw Fight Club last night. Enjoyed it. Will likely watch it agin before I return so I can make sure that I caught everything.
10219. wonkers2 - 6/25/2000 11:29:59 PM
Saw Bossa Nova tonight. Wish I'd stayed home with a book or TV. Amy Irving looked middle aged which I guess she is. I hadn't seen her for years. The movie is a comedy but not very funny and absolute zero bare skin which is unforgiveable for a movie made in Rio by the director of Dona Flor. If you want a Rio travelog check Blame it On Rio out of your local video emporium.
10220. theDiva - 6/26/2000 8:09:19 AM
Saw American Beauty last night. I nearly turned it off during the first half hour, but Greg convinced me to hang in there.
Performances were good, of course, and there were funny moments. The scene where Ricky shows Jane 'the most beautiful thing' he ever filmed was very touching and real.
But overall, I found this to be a very ugly and depressing film. There won't be a repeat showing, at least not for this girl.
10221. rubberducky - 6/26/2000 8:21:21 AM
I also rented Fight Club and thought it was a very good, if a not an overly surreal, film. knowing to look for it ahead of time, i was able to catch the "subliminal" shots of Pitt at the beginning. very, very cool.
it just seems to me there coulda been a simpler way to approach this flick, but hell, maybe i'm just too pedestrian.
anyhow, this film did prove one thing ... all boys want to pound each other ... the word just changes meaning for "straight" and "gay". something i've suspected for a while now.
10222. rubberducky - 6/26/2000 8:24:16 AM
The Green Mile rounded out this weekend's two-fer.
very enjoyable. as i've heard, almost a word for word adaptation. i'd recommend it to almost anyone. great performances, pacing, direction, special effects that weren't overused and a better mouse than Stuart Little. a little long, but i'd have been more disappointed if they cut more of the book story out of it.
10223. theDiva - 6/26/2000 8:35:39 AM
ducky
I, too, enjoyed The Green Mile, which amazed me as I generally cannot stand Stephen King's stories and think he's a hack. But this film was very touching.
10224. rubberducky - 6/26/2000 8:56:08 AM
diva:
he may be a hack, i dunno. i like what i like.
i don't generally like the movies based on his books, but do generally like the books.
10225. Cellar Door - 6/26/2000 9:28:19 AM
"all boys want to pound each other ... the word just changes meaning for "straight" and "gay". something i've suspected for a while now."
You got it, Ducky!
10226. rubberducky - 6/26/2000 12:48:33 PM
Took in a showing of Shaft this weekend as well. overall, enjoyable romp. plenty of blood spurting action, petty moralizing, catch phrases, and racist wisecracks for all.
it was typically light in the plot department, but some good performances turned in. Jackson, of course, rocked as was expected. Very cold at times and compassionate at times as well. then, he looked really righteous as pummeled the shit out of some hoodlums. Bale was fine (not as fine as in Am Psycho - but i digress). i hope he doesn't type cast himself as the psycho bad guy with the pursed lips smirk, but he might just be on his way. and, as i've read, Jeffrey Wright stole the show in a truly great performance as "Peoples Hernandez". and, damn, he was almost as sexy as Bale!
all in all, a decent action movie to take in and kill a couple hours.
10227. LadyChaos - 6/26/2000 1:22:57 PM
Did I forget to mention that Gladiator sucked?
Gladiator sucked.
10228. Fraaankster - 6/26/2000 2:28:18 PM
I read somewhere, over the weekend, that Sportsnight was picked up by HBO. True ?
Hmmmmm. One can only wonder what HBO might do to it ? Maybe it is time to suscribe ?
10229. Indiana Jones - 6/26/2000 10:54:52 PM
I rented a film called Rounders with Matt Damon, John Malkovic, and Martin Landau. Good flick about a card-playing law student reminiscent of The Hustler and The Cincinnati Kid. Fine performances and lots of tension throughout...never flagged.
One of the previews was for a virtual reality-type film called Existanz starring Jude Law that Cellar might want to check out if he already hasn't.
10230. CalGal - 6/27/2000 12:27:42 AM
Hey, Cellar--I was watching Picnic at Hanging Rock, and in checking out all the references noticed that Rachel Roberts died of barbituate poisoning. Suicide?
10231. Cellar Door - 6/27/2000 1:02:55 AM
Yep. She NEVER got over Rex Harrison.
That makes two suicides that he's directly responsible for.
10232. CalGal - 6/27/2000 1:14:37 AM
Well, if he were directly responsible for them, they'd have been murdered, so that's a bit of an overstatement. But yes, that was what I thought might be behind Roberts' death, too.
10233. LadyChaos - 6/27/2000 9:19:50 AM
I finally got around to renting Topsy Turvy, last night, and thought that it was very well done. I thought that Leigh and his ensemble of top-notch actors effectively captured the feeling of being part of the theatre. The snitty repartee between the actors, choreographers, and "management" should be instantly recognizable to anyone who has ever been involved in any sort of theatrical production. I was especially impressed by small touches, such as the obvious effort that went into having the actors actually play their musical instruments. The actors who played Gilbert and Sullivan were especially remarkable for inhabiting their characters in a way that lent them a complete aura of authenticity. Most of all, the film gives us a well-constructed portrayal of the creative process, showing how theatre, like film, is an art form which requires much more than the author applying words to page.
The only drawback to the film - and this is a minor one - was that the fun stuff didn't really get started until the second half, at which point we see Gilbert, stuck in a creative rut, being dragged by his wife to a Japanese exhibition. I would have liked for this scene to have occurred somewhat earlier in the picture, but that is a relatively small quibble.
10234. iiibbb - 6/27/2000 10:21:52 AM
I liked gladiator... I certainly was entertained, so perhaps I was not viewing it with a critical eye. The only thing I didn't like was that idiot pseudo ceasar... his character was pretty weak.
The battle scenes were interestingly done I thought... I didn't feel particularly disoriented by them.
If you want to see a movie that sucked... try The Messenger
10235. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2000 10:45:43 AM
Diva:
I'm not surprised you hated American Beauty. But just keep in mind: the fact that some of us are deliriously happy in suburbia doesn't mean those types from the movie aren't out there in droves.
10236. theDiva - 6/27/2000 11:14:30 AM
I wouldn't say that I hated it. It had redeeming qualities, but what ugliness. And I've never known people like that, at least not intimately. All that privilege, and so empty. Bleah.
10237. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2000 11:15:33 AM
Diva:
I've know many like that. Unfortunately.
10238. theDiva - 6/27/2000 11:21:13 AM
man, if that's what it does to you, gimme my townhouse and my $500 Ikea couch any day.
10239. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2000 11:29:59 AM
We have good friends who have evolved into snarling, hatefully mean people, who make hurtful comments to each other and do so in front of us, so much so that we no longer see them socially because it is just too uncomfortable to be around them. They have everything they could possibly want and have no worries about money or the future...unless you count trying to keep from murdering each other. They used to be such fun, too...it's sad.
10240. LadyChaos - 6/27/2000 11:30:18 AM
I completely related to American Beauty. I saw it as an American response to the question posed by Kundera's "The Unbearable Lightness of Being." Suburban life, and the banal contentment that comes with it, tends to drive me absolutely mad.
10241. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2000 11:31:31 AM
LadyC...
That is an excellent match-up!
10242. theDiva - 6/27/2000 11:32:10 AM
I don't know. I just kept thinking 'Who are these people?'
10243. theDiva - 6/27/2000 11:32:47 AM
You know, Lady, that might be an interesting pairing for a Mote Film Festival, if it had the proper host (hint).
10244. theDiva - 6/27/2000 11:34:33 AM
But I must admit, there were some belly laughs....like when Bening swats the kid across the mouth and yells "you ungrateful brat, when I was your age we lived in a DUPLEX!"
And where the gay couple comes to the Marine's door 'what are you partners at?' 'oh, I'm a tax attorney' 'and I'm an anesthesiologist.'
10245. LadyChaos - 6/27/2000 11:46:13 AM
Judith,
I think it would be a mistake to view American Beauty as a story about two people who had everything but grew to hate each other. It is, rather, about a guy who comes to realize that the conventional paradigm for fulfillment is a hollow promise, and so he rebels against it. His wife, however, has bought the conventional paradigm, hook, line, and sinker. And she comes to hate her husband, I suspect, because she realizes that he has truly liberated himself from being a servant to the material objects with which they have surrounded themselves, and she is jealous of his sense of freedom. She responds with anger, indulging in a tawdry affair with a guy who is the perfect symbol of empty-headed material ambition. But she knows she is trapped by her fidelity to convention, and her anger merely grows. The husband, given the chance to fulfill a sexual fantasy, discovers the true power of his spiritual liberation when he awakens to the moral necessity of declining to indulge that fantasy. The truly free individual must live with the most exacting judge of all - himself.
10246. Fraaankster - 6/27/2000 4:18:06 PM
Lady,
I only needed to read the first few lines of your review to convince me to finally go see ( rent ) American Beauty. If the husband is has rid himself, or is on some quest to rid himself of the prevailing paradigm -- the worshipping of Mammon, then it certainly worth a look. Who knows, it also might help assuage some of the cognitive dissonance I grapple with everyday ... I really should get out more and expand my genres beyond sexy V-8s or superheroes.
I haven't seen the movie and certainlly don't plan to, but the trailers make it hard to resist any comment on it.
It really doesn't surprise me anymore on the extend movie studios will milk the nostalgiac recesses of our youth in order to make a buck. The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle took cartoons to another level in 1960s, that has yet to be surpassed, and yet, here they are in the new millenium all poised and ready to be passed down to another generation of youth.
The original cartoon's undercurrent of Cold War themes, along with its tongue and cheek satirical jab at issues of the day, brought satire to the cartoon world in ways that are yet to be duplicated. It wasn't only appealing to children, but adults as well.
I remember one particular show where Boris starts taking issue with the way the narrator ( William Conrad ) was describing their dastardly and nefarious role up to that point. Boris finally loses it and reaches out toward the camera and snatches the script from an overly frightened Conrad and tears the script up. After the following Fracture Fairy Tales segment is over ( another classic ), we return to find Boris sitting on a rock trying to piece together the script, so the show could go on -- Classic stuff !!!
Hokey smoke ! How dare they taint my heroes !?
10247. Fraaankster - 6/27/2000 4:19:38 PM
Oops!
10248. Fraaankster - 6/27/2000 4:20:11 PM
10249. Fraaankster - 6/27/2000 4:20:55 PM
test
10250. theDiva - 6/27/2000 4:21:22 PM
mah gawd, frank.
10251. Fraaankster - 6/27/2000 4:21:36 PM
testing once more!
10252. Fraaankster - 6/27/2000 4:22:40 PM
Deev,
That's what happens when I rush. I have a lunch date, so...
10253. theDiva - 6/27/2000 4:24:22 PM
ooooooooohhhhhh.....
10254. CalGal - 6/27/2000 8:19:49 PM
Cellar, is Arthur Laurents' "Original Story" worth a read?
10255. Cellar Door - 6/27/2000 9:02:14 PM
Heavens, Yes! Didn't you read my rave review in the "Los Angeles Times"?
10256. CalGal - 6/27/2000 9:07:32 PM
Well, no, I hadn't.
10257. Don S. - 6/27/2000 11:31:20 PM
"Gladiator" ... um, that had Djimon Hounsou in it, right? I don't remember much else.
10258. Cellar Door - 6/27/2000 11:56:41 PM
My review ran Sunday April 9, 2000.
10259. bloodnfire - 6/28/2000 4:40:32 AM
LadyChaos. Your Message # 10245. "The husband, given the chance to fulfill a sexual fantasy, discovers the true power of his spiritual liberation when he awakens to the moral necessity of declining to indulge that fantasy. The truly free individual must live with the most exacting judge of all - himself."
Right on!
10260. rubberducky - 6/28/2000 8:36:20 AM
caught U-571 last night. i have to say i was pleasantly surprised. i wasn't expecting too much from a PG-13 war flick, but this film really delivered. i found it to be very involving, intense in moments, some great action sequences, convincing character development and interaction, even some of the boring underwater fighting was really cool.
whoever did the casting also needs a pat of appreciation on the back. that sub was packed with wall to wall cuties. very nice!
but, seriously, i'd recommend this to most anyone here. worth a look even if it is historically inaccurate.
10261. LadyChaos - 6/28/2000 9:14:20 AM
ducky,
I've been tempted to go see that one, but I worry that Das Boot has set an impossibly high standard for WWII submarine flicks, and that I will be embarrassed by the American effort.
10262. Cellar Door - 6/28/2000 9:17:53 AM
You're not the first to notice that, ducky. My friend Richard Natale refers to it as "the gay version of Titanic."
10263. LadyChaos - 6/28/2000 9:23:11 AM
Yikes. The Patriot got slammed in the NYTimes, today. I guess we'll still have to wait before somebody makes a truly good film about the American Revolution.
10264. rubberducky - 6/28/2000 9:29:45 AM
LC:
well, the trick, i guess, is not to make the comparison! but, the flick was engrossing at times and when the crew is pinned down fighting a destroyer with torpedo and one engine ... great stuff! i couldn't look away if i wanted to. but does it compare? probably not but i still think you'd be entertained.
CD:
well, i liked it better than Titanic. give me beefy navy boys over Leo any day! plus U-571 was a lot friggin' shorter. which was nice.
10265. LadyChaos - 6/28/2000 9:36:36 AM
To be honest, I could hardly have done worse than Gladiator, this past weekend.
10266. theDiva - 6/28/2000 9:43:09 AM
Even with all that eye candy? Russell Crowe and Djimon Hounsou? Yummy.
10267. rubberducky - 6/28/2000 9:47:50 AM
that's right, LC, you said something to the affect that it coulda been better?
*smirk*
10268. theDiva - 6/28/2000 10:04:15 AM
Sure it coulda been better. We coulda seen more of Russell's butt.
10269. LadyChaos - 6/28/2000 10:06:55 AM
It sucked.
Salon's review of The Patriot seems to border on glowing, yet it too contains a caveat about revisionism with respect to the slavery issue. This has long been a nagging fault of Revolutionary War dramas - the filmmakers always seek to sugarcoat race relations, be it a portrayal of happy darkies or tired explanations that the white hero was really a reluctant slave-holder. Perhaps The Patriot seeks to show how African Americans were also part of the Revolutionary effort, but it seems to me that one can only stretch this so far without breaking credulity. I can hardly imagine that blacks in the American colonies felt that there was any difference, from their perspective, as to who would be in charge. A truly great Revolutionary War pic will never be made until Hollywood comes to grip with this issue.
10270. AceofSpades - 6/28/2000 12:09:31 PM
Chaos:
U-571 rips off Das Boot to an embarassing degree. In the theater, I was able to call specific actions and camera shots, like: "Okay, now bolts are going to fly from the walls, sprayed by high-pressure water, due to the sub's depth."
10271. LadyChaos - 6/28/2000 12:55:38 PM
Speaking of Das Boot... I see that Wolfgang Peterson directed The Perfect Storm. Has anybody reviewed that, yet?
10272. AceofSpades - 6/28/2000 12:57:48 PM
Not here, but there are advanced reviews on the net...
Apparently the film sucks.
10273. LadyChaos - 6/28/2000 12:58:51 PM
Yikes.
Too bad. It looks like a bleak summer for film-going.
10274. AceofSpades - 6/28/2000 1:00:22 PM
No, it's actually a decent summer. Shaft, The Patriot, X-Men...
Eddie Murphy's "Klumps" will probably be good on video...
10275. Cellar Door - 6/28/2000 6:53:54 PM
Hey Ace -- I just got my pass to the All-media of "X-Men" on July 10. Wanna come with me? Rush out and fetch me Jude Law like a good fellow.
10276. CalGal - 6/28/2000 7:38:22 PM
Newsweek didn't speak well of The Perfect Storm. Also, it has a real ending problem.
10277. theDiva - 6/28/2000 7:49:13 PM
hey, West Wing reruns begin tonight, for those of us who came late to the show. hoo-ha!
10278. Cellar Door - 6/28/2000 11:20:42 PM
Now here's a movie with Jack V.'s name written all over it.
10279. CalGal - 6/29/2000 2:48:36 AM
I think you mean Jacques' name, doncha?
10280. Cellar Door - 6/29/2000 9:03:52 AM
True.
And now for something completely Cellar.
10281. rubberducky - 6/29/2000 9:17:54 AM
Fan-tabulous!
10282. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:17:56 AM
Cellar
I can't read the review, but I like the girl with the gun.
Diva
I watched part of the West Wing last night. That show is creepy. It kind of sucks you in, though you feel bad for having watched it when it is over. It is akin to pornography. Last night, the president's dilemmas are that he is not sufficiently pro-gay rights for the father of a slain gay man, and he is not sufficiently impassioned about releasing the study advising liberality with regard to sexz education. These are, in essence, his sins. Practicality in the face of all that is good and right and true. Blech.
That said, it is well-acted and well-written for what it is - soft treacle posing as drama.
A decent Salon piece on the show:
"The West Wing" could only be left wing
Why liberals can make good drama and conservatives wind up with "Red Dawn."
By Jonathan V. Last
May 1, 2000 | Saturday's annual White House Correspondents Association dinner began with a video short featuring the cast of "The West Wing" and real White House press secretary Joe Lockhart. Later, the show got a plug during President Clinton's speech. And after dinner, the "Wing" cast was feted as guests of honor at the Vanity Fair memorial after party, now sponsored by Michael Bloomberg. In the course of one night, "The West Wing" cemented itself as the most-talked-about television program in the nation's capital.
10283. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:18:49 AM
In less than one season, the quasi-fictional NBC drama has eclipsed the popularity of "Meet the Press," "Crossfire" and even "Hardball With Chris Matthews" in this town. It has, as Brandon Tartikoff used to say, major heat. In bars people don't gossip about bumping into Sen. Trent Lott or presidential aide Sidney Blumenthal anymore. They exchange "West Wing" sightings. There's the whole cast feasting at Bobby Van's! There's Rob Lowe shooting an exterior by the OEB! There's Moira Kelly doing a scene on Constitution Avenue! And wasn't she the girl from "The Cutting Edge"?
But why is the entire city (320,000 people in D.C. watch every week) swooning over a show that is such an obvious river of liberal agitprop? The show's creator and writer, Aaron Sorkin, tried to deny that his show has any particular political bent in a recent profile in the Washington Post. However, a quick examination of the series shows his denial to be, as they say, inoperative.
"The West Wing" is such a thinly veiled roman ŕ clef about the Clinton administration that even most interns on the Hill know who the characters' real-life counterparts are. The featured players include George Stephanopoulos (Rob Lowe), Harold Ickes (Brad Whitford), Dee Dee Myers (Allison Janney), Mandy Grunwald (Moira Kelly), Hillary Clinton (Stockard Channing), Chelsea Clinton (Elizabeth Moss) and Bill Clinton (Martin Sheen).
10284. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:19:21 AM
But to Sorkin, a liberal Democratic activist, the real Clinton White House wasn't good enough. So he created a dream White House, starring not the real Clinton but the good Clinton who lived in the typical Democrat's mind in 1991. From there, the propaganda gushed forth. In the first season, Josiah Bartlet (Martin Sheen as Clinton) and his administration have come out in favor of paying reparations to blacks for slavery, using statistical sampling for the census, putting the self-described "most liberal judge in the country" on the Supreme Court, keeping a Secret Service confidentiality clause, letting gays serve openly in the military, enacting tough campaign finance reform and taking up hate-crimes legislation.
The Bartlet administration is against school vouchers, school prayer, a flag-burning amendment and the religious right. And apparently it's just warming up: In last week's episode, the president's advisors lament that they've dropped five points in the polls because they aren't being liberal enough.
But if "The West Wing" is silly as a political diatribe, it's brilliant as television. The writing -- and there is no one to credit but Sorkin -- crackles with energy. The dialogue ricochets from character to character with intelligence and precision. The pacing is swift and sure. The cast is professional and believable. And the production values are the best on network television -- from the elaborate, burnished sets to the dynamic yet smooth camerawork.
10285. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:19:41 AM
So how does "The West Wing" manage to be politically didactic and entertaining at the same time? And why isn't there a Republican version of "The West Wing"? The answer, of course, is that there couldn't possibly be a Republican version. Liberals can do drama well and conservatives can't.
There are, of course, exceptions to every rule, but, generally, when liberal politics intersects with dramatic entertainment, the results can be pretty good. TV drama in the '80s was dominated by "St. Elsewhere" and "L.A. Law," and today by "The Practice" and "The West Wing." When conservatives do drama it comes out as "The A-Team" or "Red Dawn" or "The Omega Strain" or, even worse, "Rambo."
Liberalism and conservatism each have distinct roles to play in civil society, and this explains why one makes for drama and the other makes for comedy. Democracies change, historically speaking, at a very fast pace. Liberalism is the engine of change; it always seeks to push the culture forward, to advance and evolve. Sometimes it brings about good things (like the abolition of slavery) and sometimes it brings about not-so-good things (like forced busing). But it is always fighting to move beyond the status quo. And eventually liberalism wins because the status quo does change. This Sturm und Drang is the stuff of great drama: It tells of brave struggles that give way to glorious accomplishments.
10286. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:20:00 AM
In a recent episode of "The West Wing," Lowe's character is confronted by the daughter of the chief of staff, a public-school teacher. Her father has just shown her a position paper that Lowe had once written advocating school choice and, like any good member of the National Education Association, she is furious. The two wage a pointed debate on the merits of vouchers and she becomes exasperated that he can be such a Neanderthal. And then Sorkin shows us his fastball: Lowe admits to her sheepishly that the paper she saw wasn't a position paper but an opposition-research memo. Of course he doesn't support school choice. He was only playing devil's advocate. They hug and make up.
"The West Wing" is full of earnest arguments and moments of triumph and, dramatically, they're very satisfying. But when that sincere hopefulness is used as a source of comedy it falls hopelessly flat. Think back to Dixie Carter's ham-handed "I am woman" punch lines on "Designing Women." Liberal comedies are either insulting or boring.
That's because the flip side of the coin is that for all of their dramatic successes, liberal messages nearly always make for bad comedy. "Murphy Brown," "Ellen," and "Designing Women" verged at times on the unwatchable. "M*A*S*H," one of the best shows ever to appear on television, always sagged whenever Alan Alda began his sensitive political philosophizing.
10287. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:20:16 AM
And as antithetical as it may seem, conservatism makes for great sitcom characters. Archie Bunker was much funnier than Meathead and Gloria. George Jefferson grounded "The Jeffersons," and Alex P. Keaton, played to incorrigible Reaganite perfection by Michael J. Fox, created the humor that was in "Family Ties." Even "The Simpsons" fills its shows with endless tweaking of the liberal agenda. (In one famous instance, Sideshow Bob is sent back to prison screaming that one day he'll walk the streets again because you can't keep the Democrats out of office forever.) And the most conservative character on television is, unquestionably, Hank Hill from "King of the Hill."
Conservatives are, to paraphrase John Stuart Mill, the stupid party. Conservatism doesn't like change. It fights a perpetual holding action that it knows it can't win because nothing stays the same forever. Of course, when societies change too fast they fall apart at the seams (witness the 1970s). Conservatives are the brakemen on the train, never stopping forward progress completely, but keeping the pace slow enough that the engine doesn't jump the tracks.
It is not, however, a glamorous job. Conservatism has been on the losing side of most of the fights since Brutus and Caesar took it outside. This win-loss record is good for the conservative temperament, if bad for the ego. Conservatism can laugh at itself -- and it can laugh at others, too, because part of its job is to poke fun at the more ridiculous aspects of liberalism. In the comic arena this resignation to defeat is gold, but in drama it's creepy. When conservatism is injected into drama, it is often preachy, bitter or wildly unrealistic, the result of losing too many arguments to history and never getting credit for saving the world from devolving into anarchy.
10288. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:20:26 AM
For his part, Sorkin certainly doesn't give conservatives any credit. He blames them for everything from starving inner-city children to sending death threats to the president's daughter. And it's wildly entertaining.
10289. CalGal - 6/29/2000 9:27:21 AM
I believe I linked that in when it was first written. No doubt you missed it because you don't look at links--and, of course, believe everyone is the same as you so you put the damn article in again word for word.
As for the rest--when, exactly, are you going to watch an entire episode? You still haven't. Every time you've mentioned it, you say, "I watched part of an episode". Given your insistence on others knowing the whole story, I find this puzzling.
Anyway, we've had the discussion before. I find your observation of these as "the president's dilemmas" odd. The point of the father's rage was not that the President was being practical, but that the self-important and rather smug group of staffies thought that he wasn't "one of them". Instead, they got smacked with just how far they'd come from that point.
I never thought that episode was all that great, but I did like the scene where Sam fired the girl (even if the ending ruined that badly) and the father's speech was quite moving, if not looked at through your prism of "the president's dilemma".
But then, I'm not the hack sort. (g)
10290. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:28:48 AM
"They hug and make up."
This will kill the show, as it must die. What they could use next season is the president bailing on his pal, Chief of Staff guy (another hugger) because of political constraints, and hiring another old friend who is not a hugger, but a more conservative dick. Thereafter, you can actually have real tension in the White House, instead of the faux tension that exists now (which basically consists of waiting for one goodnik to convince the other goodnick that he or she is not being a goodnik, and even if in the end they can't be goodniks, they can give knowing looks and hugs because they know that even if they did not do the goodnik thing, they would have, were it not for nasty conservatives and/or the ick of politics).
10291. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:30:26 AM
Cal
The Monkees were on. I was being economical. We have had this discussion before. But it came to mind, and I thought someone else with whom I haven't had the discussion might be interested.
The firing was excellent.
10292. CalGal - 6/29/2000 9:34:32 AM
What they could use next season is the president bailing on his pal, Chief of Staff guy (another hugger) because of political constraints, and hiring another old friend who is not a hugger, but a more conservative dick.
Actually, this was done on Spin City. Can't go to that well again.
And as I've said before, the show is the first of its kind, so I don't know that it's realistic to expect groundbreaking drama as well. What I enjoy is that the show--unlike the creator--presents the issues as a lot more complex than I would have expected.
10293. CalGal - 6/29/2000 9:36:36 AM
The firing was excellent.
Oh, good. Then at some point in our critical judgments, we're not that far off. (g)
I will tell you that one of the very low points in the series came, for me, when Leo hired her back.
10294. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 9:39:39 AM
Cal
Spin city is a sitcom. I don't think the same rules apply.
Cellar
I was watching some of The Fall of The Roman Empire and I thought of both you and Gladiator. I hadn't read in any of the reviews the fact that Gladiator and the The Fall of The Roman Empire are so similar. It is a tedious movie with perhaps one of the worst soundtracks ever. But there is a scene between Commodus (the guy from the Sound of Music) and Livius (The Russell Crowe character played by the awful Stephen Boyd). They meet, drink and appear to hump. Forget Curtis/Olivier in Spartacus or even Heston/Boyd in Ben Hur. This beats both for latent homoeroticism. Have you seen it?
10295. Cellar Door - 6/29/2000 9:56:25 AM
Not in some time. Are you sure they're humping? Not just some "manly" hug?
I love the narrator's last line: "This was the beginning of the end of the Roman Empire." In other words -- this was all a prequel!
10296. Jack Vincennes - 6/29/2000 10:00:18 AM
Cellar
They cross arms, each holding the other's sack of wine, and pour wine into each other's mouths until they can take no more. Then, they fall upon each other laughing, Livius to the rear. Humping may be an overstatement. But not much of one.
10297. CalGal - 6/29/2000 10:12:02 AM
Christopher Plummer. I don't remember much about the movie, but he was my favorite.
10298. CalGal - 6/29/2000 10:14:36 AM
I thought someone else with whom I haven't had the discussion might be interested.
What--you mean someone who agrees with you?
BTW, I disagree--again--that there aren't real "dilemmas" in the show. You just confuse the real stuff with the spats between the main characters, which has little to do with anything.
I don't see how you could think the episode with Ken Howard as the judge who doesn't believe in the constitutional right to privacy presented a one-sided discussion.
10299. Cellar Door - 6/29/2000 10:40:59 AM
"They cross arms, each holding the other's sack of wine, and pour wine into each other's mouths until they can take no more."
Don't straight Frat boys do this sort of thing all the time? Call Dubbya and ask him if this "sounds gay."
10300. ButterfieldSwire - 6/29/2000 10:43:26 AM
I popped "A Life Less Ordinary," last night. It became unbearable within seconds of the opening credits. I think I was able to sit through more of "Young Einstein," than this piece of shit. The cast included Ewan MacGregor, Cameron Diaz, and Delroy Lindo in feature roles and near great TV actors like Stanley Tucci, Tony Shaloub and Dan Hedeya in supporting roles. The casting director should have won an Oscar. But there's nothing worse than a gag comedy in which the gags aren't funny and occur so infrequently that the director times the cuts second's after the gag so you have time to have a good laugh without losing the banal plot. I challenge anyone to sit through this whole thing.
10301. CalGal - 6/29/2000 11:25:32 AM
I finally got the DVD of Happy, Texas, and it lived up to expectations. Two convicts (Steve Zahn and Jeremy Northam--yes, that Jeremy Northam) inadvertently escape, steal an RV belonging to a gay couple who train girls for beauty pageants and are, inevitably, mistaken for said couple. They must train the little girls of Happy in order to maintain their cover--and while they're in town, why not rob the bank? And it's probably not spoiling anything if I tell you that things don't quite work out the way they're planned.
I'm a sucker for the gentle, goofy, character comedies, but even without my bias there's no question this is a superior entry. Among the unlooked for surprises--the convicts don't really object to having to play gay, and apparently even Texas chain gang members don't think that all gay men are limp-wristed swishes these days. The movie has a healthy respect for both law & order and homosexuality, and real affection for its characters--the cruelest, most difficult moment in this movie is not funny at all, and the pain is genuinely affecting.
The direction isn't particularly innovative, and the story isn't as well-constructed as some. But the characters and performances are top-notch. Zahn is simply wonderful as the convict who is stuck training the girls, and Bill Macy, the town's straight-arrow sheriff, is adorable, sweet, sad, and very, very funny. Northam has it tough playing, er, straight man to these two, and does very well. I was also pleasantly surprised by Ally Walker (Profiler) as the bank owner and one of several love interests. Ron Perlman is priceless in a few brief scenes.
Don't miss it. Great for kids, too.
10302. CalGal - 6/29/2000 11:27:58 AM
Oh, and while I'm at it--in the past two weeks I've seen The Limey and Happy, Texas. Stamp, Fonda, Zahn, and Macy all turned in sterling performances, and I take this opportunity yet again to vent at the BULLSHIT Oscar nominations. It was such an awesome year for movies, but you sure wouldn't have known it from those clods.
10303. rubberducky - 6/29/2000 2:05:17 PM
Caught Me, Myself, & Irene last night. i can see what the critics were talking about. i, of course, liked it. having finally getting Jim Carrey back to doing what he's best at - physical, gross-out comedy. well, this flick had it in spades.
if you can get past the fact that the "plot" was more contrived than Dumb & Dumber (the last Carrey / Farrelly Bros combo). as in D&D, MMI had some wickedly funny moments and some hysterical scenes. unlike D&D, the movie drug in several places. like the bros couldn't think of a funny way to set up the next scene. oh well, when they hit, they hit hard.
too many good and funny things to list, but the breakout performance here, as you've probably read elsewhere, are the 3 "sons" that Carrey has. they were great. just what the movie needed, i thought. some may be put off with the way m-eff was uttered ALL the time with them, but i hardly noticed it.
so, a funny movie - just no Dumb & Dumber.
10304. CalGal - 6/29/2000 11:28:46 PM
Has anyone else ever seen that goofy little movie, Night of the Comet? It was basically a rework of Day of the Triffids with valley girls. Not a great movie, but some wonderfully silly moments.
10305. EricCartman - 6/30/2000 12:16:04 AM
I've always thought Night of the Comet was pretty decent. The girls are cute and resourceful, and not dumb. It's standard end-of-the-world sci-fi fare, but fun and well-done.
10306. CalGal - 6/30/2000 12:18:50 AM
Yes, there's not too many movies where the valley girls fight off the bad guys with an uzi and, when faced with an orange zombie, warns him nicely before disabling him with a karate kick.
10307. EricCartman - 6/30/2000 1:51:44 AM
Exactly. Well, except for the classic Cycle Sluts in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama, but now I'm just nitpicking.
10308. CalGal - 6/30/2000 1:58:47 AM
I am nearly sure you are making that up. If you didn't, pretend you did.
10309. EricCartman - 6/30/2000 3:25:45 AM
I screwed up the title a little bit. It's been a while. It's actually called Sorority Babes in the Slimeball Bowl-O-Rama.
10310. CalGal - 6/30/2000 3:43:23 AM
I had a feeling "CyberSluts" was just too good to be true. It's amazing the things we remember, though, isn't it?
10311. EricCartman - 6/30/2000 4:24:39 AM
No, Cycle Sluts. I did find one in the adult section of the IMDB called Butt-Banging Cycle Sluts, but I haven't seen it.
(yet)
10312. CalGal - 6/30/2000 4:29:12 AM
Gad.
10313. DaveM - 6/30/2000 4:39:38 AM
Ya'll sure are late nighters. I have to finish editing an article by 8 a.m. Late night, eh?
10314. CalGal - 6/30/2000 4:48:31 AM
Cart, Slack, Fraaaaaaank, and I are the west coast night owls. This is pretty normal for us, although I'm off to bed pretty soon. Spawn catches a train pretty early in the morning this week.
It's almost 5 there, yes? You going to get it done?
10315. DaveM - 6/30/2000 5:05:01 AM
Yeah. I'm almost finished. The legal assistant for the professor I work for quit on Monday; she's taking the bar exam this weekend. I have had to assume her duties.
10316. rubberducky - 6/30/2000 12:38:31 PM
hahahahaha
"The only reason I'd bring a Bible out here is if I needed toilet paper."
10317. PelleNilsson - 6/30/2000 1:00:21 PM
Victor Grassman is dead.
10318. labwabbit - 6/30/2000 1:14:29 PM
Voyeurism...
Just look at yourself looking.
10319. labwabbit - 6/30/2000 1:17:09 PM
...and who may be watching.
10320. Cellar Door - 6/30/2000 1:41:47 PM
10321. JudithAtHome - 7/1/2000 10:11:51 AM
Walter Matthau...RIP
10322. Cellar Door - 7/1/2000 10:42:52 AM
10323. KuligintheHooligan - 7/3/2000 10:34:55 AM
From on article I read concerning the new movie, "The Patriot," here's a small movie quiz for youse.
From the Internet Movie Data Base, name the top four American wars, in descending order, upon which Hollywood movies have been based.
10324. PelleNilsson - 7/3/2000 11:42:51 AM
WWII
The Civil War
Vietnam
Korea
10325. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 12:15:19 PM
My guess:
WWII
WWI
Civil War
Vietnam
10326. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 12:21:11 PM
I saw Perfect Storm and Patriot this weekend.
Perfect Storm: an exercise in CGI weather FX. The FX are pretty impressive initially, but they grow old through repetition (there are only so many different ways to show a storm at sea). I think the fact that FX are central is shown by the huge amount of screen time devoted to the anonymous Coast Guard rescuers in what is a completely irrelevant subplot. What is disappointing is the almost complete lack of emotional heft to what should have been a much more involving story.
The Patriot: A confused, muddled mess of a war movie, with cartoonish villains and contrived conflicts. Its chief merits are the verisimilitude it gives to 18th century life and warfare, and a handful of well-executed battle scenes (the climactic battle, particularly, which is curiously never named, by I think it was supposed to be Cowpens).
10327. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 12:26:32 PM
I also rented the DVD of Seven Days in May, which I had previously never seen. A hell of a thriller. I thought I was seeing the best political thriller ever made until the film shifts focus from Kirk Douglas to the President in the final half hour. As is, we have to suffer through screenwriter Rod Serling's eye-rolling speeches about the sickness of the nuclear age and the importance of democracy. But it was still a damned good movie. Burt Lancaster rocks.
Frankenheimer's commentary track is decent, although he frequently sounds like a grumpy old man complaining about the difficulties in modern movie-making.
10328. KuligintheHooligan - 7/3/2000 2:26:51 PM
The answer to my brief quiz, with number of movies covering each war:
WWII - 407
Civil War - 197
WWI - 150
Vietnam - 72
Rask got all four wars correct, just in the wrong order. Pelle, nice guessing.
10329. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 3:08:24 PM
I too saw Patriot and Perfect Storm.
Patriot: Boring. Episodic. No dramatic "oomph," no "through line." Nothing.
Perfect Storm: Repetitive as all get out. George Clooney continues to annoy with his heavily-mascara'ed baby brown sad-sack eyes. The screenwriter can only contrive so many contrivances to get the crew of the Andrea Gail out on the ship's deck during a raging hurricane, rather than bunkered down belowships like sane people. Boring. Too much cross-cutting to subplots.
On the plus side: Both films are well photographed and generally well-acted. The Patriot generally observes Ace's rules of action direction; trouble is, nothing interesting and nothing original happens during the action scenes.
Both are boring. Really boring.
If I have to choose between schlocky crapola like M:I 2 and more "serious" flims like these... ughhhh. I guess I choose these, but I'm not happy about my choice.
10330. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 3:09:08 PM
Oh: The CGI in perfect Storm looks pretty silly.
10331. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 3:33:40 PM
"Oh: The CGI in perfect Storm looks pretty silly."
I didn't think so, but it isn't something I am going to spend a lot of time defending.
What was the last action film you *liked*, Ace?
10332. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 3:36:59 PM
I ask because for a long time, there weren't any action films I liked. I had begun to wonder whether this was because the films all sucked, or because I was much younger when I first saw the action films of the 80s (Aliens, Die Hard, Terminator, Predator, etc.) that I liked so much. I had begun to fear that I was turning into a grumpy old movie crank. Luckily, Zorro, Matrix, and Gladiator have come out lately to convince me that I still like a good action film, and I have discovered the wonders of HK action films.
But I am beginning to fear that you have turned into the cranky viewer that I incorrectly feared I was becoming.
10333. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 3:50:02 PM
Rask:
Men in Black was outstanding. Independence Day was very good.
I'm sure I've liked a few since then, but I can't recall them now.
10334. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 3:54:22 PM
You liked MIB as an action movie? I thought it was okay as a comedy, but that it didn't have much merit as an action movie. Anyway, that was three years ago. I don't think you are too far away from sitting in your front porch rocker, drinking Metamucil, and telling those damned kids to get the hell off your lawn.
10335. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 3:58:17 PM
Rask:
Last night a friend said the same thing: That I just didn't seem to like *any* movies.
But I've always been that way. I either love a film, and I'll watch it 30 times, delighting every time in its ingenuity and effectiveness, extolling it to all who'll listen, or I'll hate it.
It's not like I liked more movies as a kid-- I didn't. I loved Die Hard. I hated Running Man. I loved Lethal Weapon. I hated Lethal Weapon 2 and 3.
90% of everything *is* crap. 5% is passable, and 5% is truly outstanding. It's always been that way, and probably always will.
PS: Men in Black worked well enough as an action/comedy. 50% of "action" movies are action/comedies anyway.
10336. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:00:46 PM
Incidentally, I just watched "Army of Darkness" again. Terrific movie.
10337. rubberducky - 7/3/2000 4:12:30 PM
"Incidentally, I just watched "Army of Darkness" again. Terrific movie."
agreed Ace
it is a rare case of the sequel being better than the original. or, in this case, the first two combined.
10338. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:15:50 PM
I don't know "better." Evil Dead 2 was smashing good fun, and very innovative and original. Army of Darkness builds on that, and takes it to new levels, but Evil Dead 2 featured the first-ever incident of a hero cuttting off his own hand with a chain saw, then attaching the chain-saw to his stump, and whispering, "Groovy."
10339. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:15:56 PM
I don't completely understand its appeal. I thought it was mildly amusing, with its deliberately cheesy dialogue, but nowhere as good as its following would suggest.
10340. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:17:46 PM
Rask:
Army of Darkness is the rare movie where the hero is a dickhead, and gets all the "Evil Bad Guy" Lines. That's what makes him so fucking cool-- he's worse than the "villains" he's fighting.
10341. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:23:45 PM
I'll take "Point Blank" and "High Plains Drifter" for $500, Alex.
10342. jonesatlaw - 7/3/2000 4:23:58 PM
I saw the Rocky and Bullwinkle movie this weekend. True to the original style. Hokey smokes there were a lot of corny puns and big name cameos. DeNiro was wonderful as Fearless Leader. Jason Alexander was a passable Boris Badenoff, but Danny Devito would have been excellent.
The movie is full of gags you'll miss the first time. Not howlingly funny, but a great escape from reality.
10343. rubberducky - 7/3/2000 4:24:39 PM
Re: Message # 10338, AceofSpades.
other than what you mentioned, i thought ED2 was a complete retread of ED. they go in woods ... he kills his girlfriend ... innocent people get possessed ... i was disappointed.
10344. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:25:32 PM
"Point Blank" I don't know, but I was going to mention "High Plains Drifter."
I said *rare* movie-- not first movie with a dickhead, evilly funny hero.
10345. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:25:41 PM
Hell, that tradition goes all the way back at least to film noir. You really should watch a film like Kiss Me Deadly.
10346. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:27:13 PM
Rubber Ducky:
Evil Dead 2 *was* a remake of Evil Dead 1, not actually a sequel.
They got more money and decided to make it with a bigger budget-- and as a comedy, of course.
Having seen Evil Dead 2 first, it was Evil Dead 1 which was a total disappointment to me. Cheap, unprofessional, nasty (the tree rape), and not a good laugh in the whole thing.
10347. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:28:18 PM
Oh, Hell. All those gangster films from the 30s had a lot of "evilly funny" protagonists. Of course, we always got a lecture from a chief of police or a newspaper editor 3/4 of the way through the film about how they were social diseases that had to be eradicated, but we all knew where the films' sympathies *really* lay.
10348. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:30:20 PM
I saw Evil Dead, and disliked it so much that I never bothered to see Evil Dead 2. I plan on catching one of these days, partially because I now remember almost nothing about the original (something about a Sumerian "book of the dead" being found in an Appalachian cabin?, followed by lots of dismemberments?)
10349. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:32:44 PM
Evil Dead 2 is indeed about the Sumerian Necromonicon ex Mortis, with lots of dismemberments. But it's a Marx-Brothers-level slapstick comedy.
Trouble is, the first twenty five minutes or so are fairly "straight," so you don't realize you're in store for a comedy. Actually, the first twenty five minutes are pretty boring.
10350. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:34:47 PM
I am a huge fan of most of those "anti-hero" movies. I am trying to think why Army of Darkness left me cold. I think it is because Raimi so obviously is poking fun at Ash.
10351. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:35:38 PM
No he's not. I don't know why you think he's "poking fun" at Ash.
Ash is the hero and the film -- and Raimi -- love him.
10352. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:38:45 PM
Maybe its because he only moonlights as a chainsaw-handed, "Boomstick"-wielding smartass hero from the future, when he has time from his day job working in Housewares for "S-Mart". Or maybe its because he is frequently the butt of some joke or another (forgetting the magic words to activate the book, for instance)
10353. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:42:59 PM
If you saw Evil Dead 2, you'd have little doubt that Ash is intended to be a bona-fide action hero. Albeit a funny one.
He's brave, he has good lines, and he can take a shitload of damage. More damage than, say, Elmer Fudd or Yosemite Sam. Ash may be the first horror-hero who has the Damage-Taking Capability/Infinite Hit Points of horror monsters like Michael Myers or Jason.
10354. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:44:44 PM
well, I think I need to re-watch both ED2 and AoD, but the whole cartoonishness is partly why I don't think he is to be taken seriously.
10355. AceofSpades - 7/3/2000 4:48:06 PM
It's very cartoonish, and of course it's not meant to be "taken seriously."
It's the "poking fun" thing I disagree with, as if Ash is an Archie Bunker type character forever being exposed as a buffoon by his liberal producer.
Not so. He's a badass. But he's a badass in a comic universe, so of course he's funny and occasionally dimwitted (when the joke requires him to be).
10356. Cellar Door - 7/3/2000 4:52:13 PM
You don't know "Point Blank," Ace? Then you're in for the treat of your life.
I've got it letterboxed on laser. Don't know if it's yet available on DVD. If it's ever revived in a theater -- GO! Essential cinema.
10357. JudithAtHome - 7/3/2000 4:54:14 PM
I loved Point Blank...
10358. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:55:18 PM
I strongly recommend Point Blank as well. In hindsight, it wasn't a good comparison in context, since I don't recall much evilly funny dialogue, but it is a pretty good tough guy movie. Mel Gibson's "Payback" was a remake of it.
10359. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 4:57:43 PM
It isn't on DVD, but there is a 1998 Mickey Rourke "thriller" of the same name which could entrap the unwary filmgoer.
10360. JudithAtHome - 7/3/2000 5:03:06 PM
Oh well, with all his plastic surgery, no one will recognize Rourke anyhow.
10361. Cellar Door - 7/3/2000 5:29:46 PM
Actually there's very little dialogue in "Point Blank." The funniest moment is when Carroll O'Connor shows up.
But I don't want to spoil it. It's too damned good.
"Point Blank" isn't an "action film," per se. There are chase bits, and an epic car destruction scene, but most of the violence is hotly threatened then cooly executed. There's an overall sense of dread and foreboding that's quite uncanny as the bulk of the film takes place in blindingly bright sunshine.
And it's the finest work Lee Marvin ever did.
10362. JudithAtHome - 7/3/2000 6:07:09 PM
He certainly knows how to slap a woman around...and destroy glass coffee tables.
10363. Raskolnikov - 7/3/2000 6:09:18 PM
I think that is a good description, Cellar. I think the brightness of the picture works because it makes Marvin's actions more brazen. The difference between being mugged while walking alone at night, and being mugged at 5 o clock in the afternoon, at Times Square, while people pass by you not noticing or caring. The latter conveys a sort of existential dread about it.
10364. rubberducky - 7/5/2000 10:27:02 AM
Ace:
ah ... i had no idea ED2 was a remake of ED
hmmm, learn something everyday.
10365. AceofSpades - 7/5/2000 8:07:52 PM
Rubber Ducky:
They misleadingly titled it "Evil Dead 2," suggesting a sequel, but in fact, it's a comedic re-make with a bigger budget.
More than likely, they figured no one would remember the original ED anyway. ED2 was most likely released to a much broader audience than ED, so it probably wouldn't have made sense to make ED2 a continuation of ED1. I mean, who the fuck *saw* ED? Why bother making a proper sequel, since less than 10% of ED's (hoped for) bigger audience would even have seen ED?
Personally, I never saw the original (not until much later, until after I'd seen ED2 a dozen times), so their calculation was a good one, at least for me.
10366. AceofSpades - 7/5/2000 8:25:50 PM
(afterthought)
In this way, it's not much different from Billy Bob Thornton making a zero-budget "They Call it a Slingblade," using that film to get him through hollywood's door, then remaking "Slingblade" with a professional-level (but still low) budget.
Certainly, his first version of "Slingblade" wasn't what he'd always imagined it would be. Way too cheap. So he took a mulligan and put out the movie he'd always intended to make.
ED1 got much more exposure than Slingblade Mark 1, being a horror movie, and a controversial one at that (remember all the ruckus about the tree-rape?) But still, it's obviously a movie put together with shoestrings and duct tape, and its budget is on the student-film level.
So, once the Raimi Bros. & Bruce Campbell got some notice for their cheap little student horror film, they gathered money to remake the movie more professionally.
10367. AceofSpades - 7/5/2000 8:28:50 PM
(another afterthought)
Given that ED *did*, in fact, make a very nice profit, and yet the genius-hood of Raimi hadn't yet been established, Raimi could probably *only* get money for an ED sequel/remake. The money guys (who included lots of Michigan dentists, apparently) enjoyed the success of ED1 and wanted the same thing over again, only with even bigger profits.
10368. Cellar Door - 7/5/2000 10:37:58 PM
Evil Dead 2 was Elizabeth Montgomery's favorite movie. "Evil Dead 1 was good," she told me,"but when they did Evil Dead 2 they REALLY knew what they were doing."
10369. wonkers2 - 7/5/2000 10:47:35 PM
Cellar Door, Vittorio Gassman had not crossed my mind for a long time til I read your post. My longest and most vivid memory of him is as an evil character playing opposite Silvana Mangano in Bitter Rice. He was one of the evilist and Mangano one of the sexiest characters I'd seen at that point in my life (early 1950s).
10370. LadyChaos - 7/5/2000 10:52:35 PM
Did anybody read the Salon article on the Patriot? I have to wonder if Emmerich does have an agenda, there. I find it disturbing that Hollywood could be so easily cavalier with our history, especially when they know that the film will appeal to the kinds of schmucks who always flunk Jay Leno's street quizzes.
The only pre-20th-century historical war film that I can recall being any good was Glory. But even that film was flawed in its portrayal of Civil War era combat. The TNT production of Gettysburg was remarkable for its portrayal of the events at Little Round Top, but had little else to recommend it.
Will the American Revolution ever get is due? Perhaps the silver lining in The Patriot is that, assuming the film does well, there may be some impetus (and interest) down the road for making a more true-to-life story based on a particular event or figure in the war. We can only hope, I suppose.
If only David Lean were still alive.
10371. CalGal - 7/5/2000 11:48:45 PM
The Nazis, er, the Redcoats are Coming!
I'm still reading it; just wanted to link it in.
As far as American Revolutionary films: 1776, The Devil's Disciple and Johnny Tremaine come to mind (and yeah, the last is a stretch, but it's a pretty good kid's movie).
10372. LadyChaos - 7/6/2000 12:04:34 AM
CalGal,
1776? I was thinking more along the lines of historical verisimilitude than I was stodgy musicals. Think of a Lawrence of Arabia for the founding of American Democracy.
Can't say I've seen "The Devil's Disciple," but being as it is based upon a G. Bernard Shaw play, see the above comment regarding the "v"-word. I once played Captn. Bluntschli in a production of Arms and the Man, and I noticed then that Shaw's observations of historical detail had less to do with history than with his own satirical agenda.
P.S. Don't forget to drop me a line before you come to Miami.
10373. CalGal - 7/6/2000 12:42:52 AM
Actually, while the music in 1776 is terrible, the verisimilitude--at least as far as the issues covered--was surprisingly accurate, and it's a lot of fun. It is badly directed but not stodgy.
By transposing Oradour to South Carolina, and making 18th century Britons the first moderns to commit this particular war crime, Emmerich and Rodat -- unwittingly or not -- have done something unpleasantly akin to Holocaust revisionism. They have made a film that will have the effect of inoculating audiences against the unique historical horror of Oradour -- and implicitly rehabilitating the Nazis while making the British seem as evil as history's worst monsters.
This is a persuasive description of the impact of the film. I'm not convinced it was deliberate. It is quite possible that this analogy was inadvertent--Emmerich might just have wanted to have a dramatic scene and history was inconsiderate enough not to provide him with one.
10374. CalGal - 7/6/2000 12:45:56 AM
And my home computer died, so I don't have my address book--could you email me at the_calgal@yahoo.com? I will be in Miami from 16-21, as well as tooling around the weekend after, and would love to see you.
10375. LadyChaos - 7/6/2000 10:54:21 AM
CalGal,
You have incoming mail.
10376. Cellar Door - 7/6/2000 11:13:05 AM
Emmerich's an idiot.
10377. glendajean - 7/6/2000 11:17:18 AM
I've always been fond of "1776."
10378. LadyChaos - 7/6/2000 11:21:01 AM
Emmerich might just have wanted to have a dramatic scene and history was inconsiderate enough not to provide him with one.
I have not seen the film, and have not decided whether or not I will, but I would point out that there is an often fine line between drama and exploitation. Showing a story of people in conflict is dramatic, and usually the conflict is more interesting when it's between persons on the same side of a war. But showing the British murdering innocents is an exploitive tactic which, I'm afraid, will have a number of unfortunate consequences. First, it seems to turn the story of the American Revolution from one of ideals into one of bloodlust. Second, it does seem to be saying that war is always terrible, and that what the Germans did in WWII was nothing unusual. Third, making British regulars into war criminals has to be offensive to the British, who notwithstanding their imperial tendencies always took pride in abiding by the rules of warfare and by then emerging customs of international law (this is perhaps the main reason why I hesitate to pay money to see the film). Finally, as I indicated earlier, filmmakers who choose to address an important historical subject have a duty to give that subject at least fair treatment in spirit, if not in every respective detail. This is, of course, only my opinion. But I am greatly concerned by the vast and notorious historical ignorance of Americans, many of whom will no doubt accept events portrayed in The Patriot as being substantially true. Movie executive have often acknowledged a civic duty to be true to history; I doubt, for example, that the executives who financed this film would have tolerated a revisionary approach to life under the Nazis.
10379. CalGal - 7/6/2000 12:00:58 PM
I would point out that there is an often fine line between drama and exploitation.
I wasn't clear--I suspect at least the possibility that Emmerich did it because audiences are such a jaded lot. If the violence didn't compare to what they saw in Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List, then how bad could it have been?
10380. LadyChaos - 7/6/2000 1:12:12 PM
A simple dirty look can seem quite violent when artfully portrayed. See "Strangers On a Train" or "Shadow of a Doubt" for cases in point. Resorting to gruesome acts of violence reflects laziness and/or a lack of craft on the part of the writer and director.
10381. CalGal - 7/6/2000 1:17:50 PM
Well, I'd hardly argue otherwise. My only point was that the article implied that the analogy was deliberate--that Emmerich wanted to make the point that Nazis weren't so bad after all. But it seemed to me that it was quite possible for Emmerich to be a hack and a know-nothing who was worried that the mild-mannered war wouldn't have what it took to attract audiences.
10382. LadyChaos - 7/6/2000 1:44:35 PM
I also think that that is an at least equally plausible possibility, at least if you assume that the point was to make the audience want the Gibson character to take action. It is a formula taken from Westerns, and perfected by the Rambo movies, by which the spring of vengeance is wound so tightly against the hero that we delight in his vanquishing of the bad guy. This is to be distinguished from the apparently moral choice made by the Denzel Washington character in Glory. In any case, I'll probably have to see The Patriot before I should be allowed to continue dissecting it, eh?
10383. Cellar Door - 7/6/2000 2:14:19 PM
10384. PelleNilsson - 7/6/2000 2:22:12 PM
Server error.
10385. PelleNilsson - 7/6/2000 2:22:14 PM
Server error.
10386. PelleNilsson - 7/6/2000 2:22:37 PM
Sorry.
10387. Cellar Door - 7/6/2000 2:48:01 PM
Hmmm. That's disappointing. Try again in a little while.
10388. Cellar Door - 7/6/2000 2:51:24 PM
10389. CalGal - 7/6/2000 2:55:06 PM
It worked fine for me the first time. Thanks for the link!
10390. Cellar Door - 7/6/2000 2:57:05 PM
You're welcome. "Urbania" will be opening nationwide shortly. Nobody has picked up "Full Blast" as yet, but I'm having High Tea with Marcus Hu of Strand today, so I'm going to insist that he make a grab for it.
10391. Cellar Door - 7/6/2000 2:59:59 PM
10392. Don S. - 7/6/2000 3:57:29 PM
Give Marcus a peck on the cheek for me....
10393. Don S. - 7/6/2000 3:57:51 PM
(I'm going to leave to your imagination what I'd like him to make a grab for.)
10394. Jack Vincennes - 7/7/2000 11:35:55 AM
I saw two very gruesome movies. Fight Club, which was amusing and benefitted greatly from really nice performances by Brad Pitt, Edward Norton (who has not been bad in anything I've seen), Helena Bonham Carter and Meat Loaf. The philosophical "we are being crushed by consumerism" is larded on a bit thick, but it is carried by the actors, it can be wry, and it is ambitious. Still, it is also gross and unpleasantly violent. I found myself fastforwarding past several gratuitous scenes, which were then transformed to comedic.
I also saw "Ravenous" about post Civil War soldiers Guy Pearce, Robert Carlyle, Jeremy Davies, Jeffrey Jones, David Arquette and others. It is "Near Dark" meets "The Donner Party." I'll never understand how a movie about a cabal of tattered and bearded cannibals gets made in this world.
10395. CalGal - 7/7/2000 11:39:46 AM
I realized afterwards that it is Pitt's best work. I mean, I knew he was terrific while I was watching it, but I hadn't really considered all the lame performances he'd turned in over the years.
10396. Jack Vincennes - 7/7/2000 11:45:11 AM
He's had a bad run of movies I did not see - Meet Joe Black, Seven Years in Tibet, something else in there.
I thought he was fine in two other gruesome movies - 12 Monkeys and Seven
Maybe he only does well in the ick.
10397. theDiva - 7/7/2000 11:48:00 AM
I wish I hadn't seen him in Legends of the Fall. God, I hated that movie. But he was good in that one with Harrison Ford - what was it? The Devil's Own?
10398. CalGal - 7/7/2000 11:49:52 AM
His performance in that movie about Ireland with Harrison Ford wasn't bad, actually--even though the rest of it sucked.
That voice of his has no weight, which doesn't help.
Generally, I think he needs to work with a certain type of actor, who'll bring out the best in him.
BTW, if you actually read about movies before you rent them, you'd discover all sorts of interesting things that might cause you to alter your selections.
I didn't see Fight Club as all that terribly gory, though, and I'm extremely sensitive to that sort of stuff.
10399. Jack Vincennes - 7/7/2000 11:51:11 AM
Diva
That's it. The Devil's Own. Didn't see that either.
Legends of the Fall is awful enough to see again. But I will say this. One actor came out of that movie with his dignity - Aidan Quinn.
But apparently, the experience started an eating binge for poor Aidan.
10400. CalGal - 7/7/2000 11:52:02 AM
crosspost--yeah, I think that's the title. I always get it confused with the one with Pacino and Keanu.
10401. theDiva - 7/7/2000 11:55:29 AM
Devil's Own was fun, if you like action/semi-political stuff. I'd rent it again.
10402. CalGal - 7/7/2000 11:57:23 AM
My main requirement for Pitt is that his acting doesn't interfere with my enjoyment of his appearance. When he exceeds that expectation, I am pleased.
10403. theDiva - 7/7/2000 11:58:14 AM
that boy is too pretty. He doesn't do a thing for me in that regard.
10404. CalGal - 7/7/2000 11:59:55 AM
But that's just it. He is pretty. Not sexy--I'd take Norton over him any day--but pretty. One should be able to enjoy the view, such as it is, without distraction. If he opens his mouth and I want to smack him (I react strongly to poor voices) then what good is he?
10405. Cellar Door - 7/7/2000 12:01:43 PM
"Can a boy be too pretty?" was the ad line for "Flesh."
10406. JudithAtHome - 7/7/2000 12:02:39 PM
He could be a slug on the sidewalk for all the interst he provokes in me...too skinny, too dirty looking, bore-ing.
10407. theDiva - 7/7/2000 12:05:08 PM
Norton is definitely sexier. As is John Cusack, who grows on me more every time I see him in something.
10408. CalGal - 7/7/2000 12:08:32 PM
John Cusack in Grosse Point Blank is the epitome of one of my ten definitions of sexy. He's a skinny lad; I'm surprised you see the appeal. (g)
10409. JudithAtHome - 7/7/2000 12:12:30 PM
The epitome of my teen fantasies would have been Wiseguy era Ken Wahl.
10410. theDiva - 7/7/2000 12:29:03 PM
Well, generally I do go for them big ole brickhouses, but the dark, intense, cerebral types do have their appeal.
10411. rubberducky - 7/7/2000 12:51:27 PM
Re: Message # 10394, Jack Vincennes.
"I also saw "Ravenous" about post Civil War soldiers ...."
funny you should mention it. i saw it in the theater and then watched some of it on HBO last night. i liked it. i think it holds up as a surreal movie about a odd topic - civil war cannibalism. but, i can certainly see why it wasn't everyone's cup of tea. i didn't like the supernatural aspects of it, but only because it was handled in such a ham-handed way. but i was certainly entertained.
10412. Cellar Door - 7/7/2000 1:15:17 PM
Attention Motees:
The "Assignment E!" special "Gay Hollywood," featuring your truly Cellar Door, will be broadcast on "E! Entertainment Television" Sunday July 23 at 8 p.m. PT. Check your local listings.
10413. glendajean - 7/7/2000 1:24:55 PM
Celler -- congrats! I hope you (or some helpful angel) will remind us again closer to the date. I am very much looking forward to watching it.
BTW, I've been meaning to ask your opinion about "Will & Grace." I watched it again last night. It is consistently funny. I like the characters. (I didn't like the show the first couple of episodes). It seems to me that it is doing what "Ellen" could possibly have done, but for many reasons, didn't.
And it doesn't seem to be bothering "powers that be."
What's that about?
10414. theDiva - 7/7/2000 1:34:10 PM
hot diggity!
Glenda, I'll set my calendar to send me a notice, and I'll post the reminder.
10415. Cellar Door - 7/7/2000 2:12:08 PM
Do you know how "Will & Grace" got done? First of all, Max Mutchnick has a track record. Networks want to work with him. Second of all, he showed them the box office figures on "My Best Friend's Wedding." Result? Done deal.
It's not like "Ellen" at all in that the show isn't about the "real lives" of the people on it, nor did it start out as a straight comedy that "went gay all of a sudden." It's really the next logical step after shows like "Friends" and "Frasier." Gay characters have been on the edges of comedy series for years. It was only a matter of time before they were brought center stage.
But the real thing that makes it work is the casting. There's a truly vibrant dynamic that goes on between the four principles that's the sort of thing writer/producers dream about. The show isn't dependent on one or two characters. It always functions as a quartet. That's how every show is written.
Plus they've managed to keep it light in such a way that the truly political shows (like the one where Jack talks to the kid being picked on at school for being a sissy)make their point while slipping under the Fundies' radar. Mutchnick put it to me this way "We will never have a Very Special Episode of Will & Grace."
10416. glendajean - 7/7/2000 2:17:56 PM
Celler -- I know next to nothing about the creator or the actors (although the woman who plays Karen -- didn't she do lots of Broadway? -- is my all time favorite).
"Ellen" had one tremendously funny episode, post coming-out. The one with Emma Thompson. Most of the rest that season weren't very funny.
You're right about the humor on W&G. I loved the little boy episode (and held my breath a bit, realizing that I was watching this on network television).
10417. Cellar Door - 7/7/2000 2:23:40 PM
Megan Mullaly. She's on my website.
10418. glendajean - 7/7/2000 2:25:42 PM
Do you know her?
10419. Cellar Door - 7/7/2000 5:35:19 PM
I've met her a couple of times casually. She's very nice. And very talented.
10420. glendajean - 7/7/2000 5:52:19 PM
It will be interesting to see if "W&G" changes so-called mainstream producers attitudes and formulas about stories with gay-lesbian characters.
If your book was electronic, this would certainly warrant a chapter. Thanks for your excellent comments.
10421. concerned - 7/7/2000 9:52:40 PM
10422. Don S. - 7/7/2000 9:57:23 PM
Blurry but pretty.
10423. theDiva - 7/7/2000 10:10:25 PM
concerned, why have you posted a picture of Sailor Moon?
10424. Don S. - 7/7/2000 10:43:49 PM
pssst, Diva: "glug-glug-glug"...
10425. LadyChaos - 7/8/2000 12:19:08 AM
Trouserpilot!!!
10426. concerned - 7/8/2000 5:35:28 AM
Re. 10423 -
Hi, Diva
Actually, that's "Chibi-Usa", although she is from the Sailor Moon manga.
Re. 10424 -
Have you considered enrolling in AA or the Betty Ford Center? It might well be the best decision you ever made in your life.
10427. concerned - 7/8/2000 5:58:20 AM
Here's one I call "Kawaii Ten-oh". Little joke there. 
10428. Indiana Jones - 7/8/2000 11:51:18 AM
I've finally joined the world of DVD, and my first two entries were The Haunting and The Sixth Sense.
As for the first, it's every bit as bad as Ace and Jack described it. Do not under any circumstances waste the hour and a half or so of your precious life required to view this film. Regarding what Jack said about copious scenes of Catherine Zeta-Jones running around scantily clad, his definitions of "copious" and "scantily" must be different from mine. (I must confess that his tease was the only reason I checked the flick out, so I'm particularly irritated over this bait and switch. Blue Juice, which I reviewed upthread is better on that score, and the laser beam scene in Entrapment--which is at least watchable--has anything in The Haunting beat as well for would-be Catherine oglers.)
10429. Cellar Door - 7/8/2000 11:53:18 AM
On Wednesday July 12 at 7:30 p.m. Bill and I will be appearing at Barnes & Noble on the Promenade in Santa Monica.
On Sunday July 16, we'll be at Skylight Books on Vermont Ave. in Los Feliz.
Bill will be reading from "Early Plastic." I will be reading from the New Improved Kevin Spacey Edition of "Open Secret."
Then we'll read the Tom Cruise letters.
10430. Indiana Jones - 7/8/2000 12:03:10 PM
The Sixth Sense:
I assume everyone at least knows by now that there's a big twist at the end. All I can say is, how could someone not see the "twist" coming? Of course, I also figured out the gender switch in The Crying Game without much difficulty (man neck gave it away)--my problem is usually looking for a surprise when there is none...as in The Grifters.
As for the film, it was a disappointment after all the buildup in the press and by a friend. (She also thought The English Patient was a must-see, so I'm going to have to start treating her generous praise with skepticism.) The Sixth Sense was okay, but I just don't think it was exceptional.
The scene in which the boy reveals his secret to his mother was moving, but the rest of it just didn't do anything for me. Given that I don't care much for Bruce Willis, though, and he and Haley Joe are basically the only two people in the film, it had a tough row to hoe in the first place.
10431. CalGal - 7/8/2000 12:38:48 PM
The scene in which the boy tells his secret to his mother just wrecks me. I love good single mom movies.
I think The Sixth Sense was one of the best movies of last year, despite some extremely clunky exposition. I have the DVD and haven't gotten around to watching it yet--too busy enjoying my Netflix movies.
Welcome to the world of DVD!
10432. LadyChaos - 7/8/2000 2:51:00 PM
I'm considering taking the leap to DVD, but I am concerned that the picture may be over-compressed. How does the image quality rate against VHS? Against Laserdisc?
10433. AceofSpades - 7/8/2000 2:56:59 PM
"As for the first, it's every bit as bad as Ace and Jack described it. Do not under any circumstances waste the hour and a half or so of your precious life required to view this film."
Actually, it's a fun film to rent with wisecracking friends. Me and my vicious buds rented the Haunting and the SUBLIMELY EXECRABLE "First Knight" for a bad-movie double feature and had a blast.
PS: First Knight is the best god-awful movie out there. It scores quite high on the fun-o-meter.
10434. AceofSpades - 7/8/2000 2:59:40 PM
NOTE: The Haunting is still sort of tough to get through, even if you're making MST3000 type commentary throughout it. But it has its moments.
10435. AceofSpades - 7/8/2000 3:01:18 PM
The more I think about it, the more I realize I must retract my statement that The Haunting is worth renting under any circumstances.
It's bad.
10436. CalGal - 7/8/2000 3:20:16 PM
Lady,
I don't know from laserdisc, but the image quality strikes me as far superior to VHS.
That, the goodies, and the sheer convenience (you'll never fast forward again!) is plenty to start with, believe me.
10437. Cellar Door - 7/8/2000 3:20:24 PM
Robert Wise & Company got it right the first time, Ace. There was no reason whatsoever to remake it.
10438. AceofSpades - 7/8/2000 4:12:34 PM
Cellar:
When you film seven hundred pounds of festering dogshit and and call it a movie, it's hardly relevant whether it was previously "done right" or not.
10439. AceofSpades - 7/8/2000 4:14:32 PM
A bit of Hollywood:
When the original Haunting of Hill House did well, a rival studio immediately pumped out a quickie copycat with a misleadingly similar name, "The House on Haunted Hill."
When the new version of The Haunting came out, a rival studio released a remake of House on Haunted Hill within six months.
The more things change.
10440. concerned - 7/8/2000 6:37:13 PM
Re. 10432 -
I have Super VHS, LD and DVD, and in some ways, DVD has the best quality, and compares well in other aspects. Perhaps the greatest improvement is in potential reduction of color noise and color detail resolution. I also have seen few compression artifacts in the movies I have played on DVD.
10441. Indiana Jones - 7/9/2000 5:51:06 PM
Cal: NetFlix may be my next stop as well. My local video stores don't have a great DVD selection.
LC: As far as quality, the jury is still out for me. The Sixth Sense had sort of a clipped soundtrack, but I'm not sure if it was the copy I had or my player is a lemon. Will have to rent more before I know.
Ace: I kept trying to rationalize The Haunting as a good "bad" movie, but just couldn't. It's like the director of that stinkeroo Flowers in the Attic rather than Tobe Hooper made Poltergeist.
10442. Indiana Jones - 7/9/2000 5:56:46 PM
Saw Scary Movie. If you like the Wayman brothers' humor, you'll probably like it. My personal comedy formula can enjoy some scatalogical humor as long as it's not the strongest component, but without the confines of TV I think the Waymans went the cheap route. Some cleverness, but an over-reliance on the basic motiffs of fellatio, sodomy, and odors.
Not for the kiddies.
10443. concerned - 7/10/2000 3:38:57 AM
Re. 10440-
Wrt audio quality, Dolby AC-3 doesn't stack up to either the audio or digital tracks on LD, but you can get "5.1" channels, of course. IMO, DTS is the way to go on DVD, if possible.
10444. rubberducky - 7/10/2000 10:18:17 AM
Wow.
The Wayans brothers' raunchy horror spoof scored a humongous estimated gross of $42.5 million."
number ... one ... by... 15 .... million.
i say again: wow.
10445. theDiva - 7/10/2000 10:30:02 AM
saw 'Ripley' this weekend. Hated it. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Well, except for the jazz.
10446. Jack Vincennes - 7/10/2000 10:39:52 AM
Ace
Since you've subtracted "The Haunting" from the list of awful films to ridicule and wisecrack to, I nominate two others: "Volcano" and "Legends of the Fall."
10447. Jack Vincennes - 7/10/2000 10:42:28 AM
The Patriot. What follows contains SPOILERS, so be warned.
1) "The Patriot" is a revenge movie. Revenge movies are fine. But a revenge movie fails if the person upon whom revenge must be visited is either a) Hitler or b) blase' about his own life or death. In "The Patriot", the villain (a Timothy Dalton look-alike) is both, a vicious killing machine with no discernable desire to live other than to burn women and children alive. So, short of having the villain's skin peeled off, structurally, there can be no satisfaction. And there is none.
2) "The Patriot" veers wildly from the manipulative (excess usage of crying and/or dying children), to the sitcomish ("Saving Private Ryan" screenwriter Robert Rodat has expanded his few tension-breaking quips between men-in-war into broad cartoonish gag scenes worthy of "The Jeffersons") to a Saturday Night Live spoof of beer commercials (the slow-motion as men high-five after winning the big battle is missing only the blondes with big knockers and frothy pitchers, and the scene where Gibson hooks up is the exact shot of the most recent Corona commercials). In fact, the best part of the movie is when Gibson appears heroically, flag in hand, and all the militia scream "Huzzah!" but it sounds exactly like "Wazzzzzzzzzuuuuuuuuup!"
3) "The Patriot" is predictable. If you don't know whose life the stoic black-man-fighting for his freedom will save; if you don't know that the moment Gibson gives his daughter-in-law a necklace, it will be the proof of her death; if you don't know the "trick" played on the Brits to gain the release of American militia; if you don't know the fate of a warship off in the distance as the Brits live the high-life and general Cornwallis (the guy from "The Full Monty" moans about his less-than-spectacular unfiorm), you are a dimwit.
10448. Jack Vincennes - 7/10/2000 10:42:37 AM
4) The Brits are hapless cartoons (Gibson and his sons - 10 and 11 years of age - knock of 20 of them in the first action sequence), and with lame adversaries, there can be no real tension.
5) "The Patriot" is boring. The story sprawls and jerks and replays itself repeatedly.
6) Mel Gibson is boring and he looks a little bored. He's done this before in "Braveheart" and perhaps the $25 million was just too much to turn down.
7) "The Patriot" is gutless. It is 1776 South Carolina, yet our hero - Mr. Gibson, owns no slaves. His black workers, you see, are free, because he's such a good guy. And his sister-in-law, she too has blacks working her plantations, but they seem so content, they too must be free.
8) "The Patriot" is ahistorical. Like "Titanic" before it, the sensibilities are all quite modern, and you fully expect Gibson's patriot son (an Andy Gibb look-alike) to say "Duuuuuuuuude! The British are soooooooo bogus."
10449. CalGal - 7/10/2000 11:54:30 AM
I didn't hate Volcano--it wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been. But yeah, it's one of those that is best with audience participation.
BTW, Indy, I was just reminded of another terrific political film from the 60s that I forgot to mention, even though in many ways it's my favorite.
Advise and Consent, with Walter Pidgeon, Lew Ayres, Henry Fonda, Don Murray, Charles Laughton, Peter Lawford and a host of other names. Excellent movie about the confirmation hearings of a controversial nominee for Secretary of State.
I can't think how I forgot about it, and the reminder has me wanting to run out and rent it--although I'll have to do it after vacation. It's much tighter than Seven Days in May, and has no real political agenda (unusual for the 60s).
So the list of 60s political thrillers are:
10450. CalGal - 7/10/2000 11:55:15 AM
"Duuuuuuuuude! The British are soooooooo bogus."
You forgot the "like" and the "man".
10451. JudithAtHome - 7/10/2000 12:09:47 PM
Did anyone watch Longitude on A&E last night? We did and thought it was great.
10452. CalGal - 7/10/2000 12:11:04 PM
I came in halfway through and decided to watch it when I could see it from the beginning. What's the story, again?
10453. CalGal - 7/10/2000 12:11:53 PM
Oh, and before Cellar comes in mentioning "Z", I should stipulate that I was only talking US 60s political thrillers.
10454. JudithAtHome - 7/10/2000 12:23:57 PM
The story was about the guy who developed a way to sail the oceans blue and know where you were...
10455. glendajean - 7/10/2000 12:25:29 PM
I always thought "Failsafe" was too hokey. Wasn't Matthau in that and Fonda as the President?
Jack, my good Republican neighbors have urged us to see "Patriot" several times, thinking that it will recruit us to their party, at least, or possibly to NRA membership.
10456. CalGal - 7/10/2000 12:42:38 PM
That was Failsafe. A young Larry Hagman delivers what was for years his best performance.
Failsafe probably doesn't hold up as well as the others, but I still like it. I've only watched the last hour recently, so it may be that I'm forgetting a multitude of sins. But I don't think it's terribly hokey. I liked the solution.
10457. EricCartman - 7/10/2000 4:22:52 PM
Vince:
Good review of Patriot; it sounds like exactly what it looks like it would -- big and dumb and predictable. Every trailer or commercial I've seen for it, I keep expecting to see Gibson turn to one of his minions and say, "This time it's personal."
Maybe they could have had Danny Glover be the black-guy-fighting-for-his-freedom, and had him say, "I'm getting too old for this shit."
10458. LadyChaos - 7/10/2000 4:23:43 PM
Does anyone know if Failsafe was the basis for Dr. Strangelove? They seem awfully similar, but I never knew whether for latter was inspired by the former.
10459. CalGal - 7/10/2000 4:23:59 PM
hahahahahaha.
I have taken a pass on both The Perfect Storm and The Patriot, although my dad might want to check them out when we're on vacation.
Disney's The Kid is getting decent reviews.
10460. CalGal - 7/10/2000 4:25:36 PM
Actually, I just looked it up in the IMD and see this:
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) has a remarkably similar premise, and was being made by Stanley Kubrick at the same time. Kubrick threatened legal action, claiming plagiarism. The issue was settled when Columbia Pictures agreed to push Kubrick's film at the expense of Fail-Safe (1964), which subsequently bombed at the box office.
10461. CalGal - 7/10/2000 4:26:25 PM
But given that Fail-Safe came from a novel, that seems odd.
10462. EricCartman - 7/10/2000 4:31:22 PM
Cal:
I have to admit I actually thought about checking out Storm, figuring hell, you got your Clooney, you got your Marky Mark, you got your Diane Lane -- how bad could it possibly be?
Then I started thinking -- it's what, 2˝ hours long, give or take? I can't sit still in a theater for that long, especially just watching a fishing boat get tossed around on a CGI ocean.
I don't know if I told you already or not, but I enjoyed Chicken Run immensely. Really a cool, very fun movie.
10463. CalGal - 7/10/2000 4:32:20 PM
It's a _________________ , Captain!
Funniest damn joke in the movie, how that all tied in.
10464. CalGal - 7/10/2000 4:33:40 PM
I thought about it too, and if my dad wants to see a movie, that's the one I'll opt for. I like Clooney a great deal. But both of them really do sound bad, and with the two kids I figure that we can do The Kid, and even Chicken Run again, if they haven't seen it.
10465. EricCartman - 7/10/2000 4:49:16 PM
I think I know which joke you mean there, the Star Trek reference. That's what was cool about it -- Chicken Run is not a kid's movie per se; most young kids would have no idea about The Great Escape or even the Indiana Jones movies.
10466. CalGal - 7/10/2000 4:51:04 PM
Or Stalag 17 (the opening is scene for scene, in some places).
10467. marshame - 7/10/2000 6:37:16 PM
Speaking of bad movies:
whilst entertaining family visitors over the past week, we had an Ed Wood marathon. Everynight, when we came in from the day's adventures, too tired to go to bed, we'd pop in an Ed Wood movie. My brother loves Plan Nine from Outer Space, and I am particularly fond of Glen or Glenda. And of course, we have to watch the Johnny Depp/Martin Landau movie to get the background/perspective.
My brother tells me that Plan Nine from Outer Space is officially one of the Ten Worst Movies of All Time. Great thing about it is that it's only about 80 minutes long, so you can see bad, really bad in little more than an hour, compared to something like, say, the movie Red, where you have to spend 4 hours seeing bad, really bad.
10468. christino - 7/10/2000 6:52:13 PM
Yes, Marsha, and I think Ed Wood was officially recognized as the worst film director of all time.
10469. marshame - 7/10/2000 7:03:56 PM
Yes, you're right. But he was so nice, so tender-hearted to a washed up Bela Lagosi and a very strange polyglot assortment of misfits, outcasts and others that formed his universe, and whom he cast in his pictures, that you cannot help but admire him for his humanity. If you haven't already seen it, check out the Johnny Depp version. I believe Martin Landau won an Oscar for his portrayal of Bela.
Drat, gotta run to a meeting. Catch you tomorrow!
10470. christino - 7/10/2000 7:40:10 PM
I loved that film. I thought it was wonderful and I agree. What a nice man!
10471. Cellar Door - 7/10/2000 8:01:31 PM
I don't think Wood is a bad director at all. Just a poverty-stricken and inept one. Truly bad movies can barely be sat though. Wood's can be looked at again and again.
10472. LadyChaos - 7/10/2000 9:27:21 PM
Imagine that....
Marshame actually expresses fondness for a transvestite who pulled a scam on the Baptists to raise money for making what is officially known as one of the worst films of all time.
Will miracles never cease?
Btw, and fwiw, I really liked Ed Wood, too. It's the only Tim Burton film in which Burton actually seems to show some affection for his characters.
10473. EricCartman - 7/10/2000 9:43:41 PM
Cal [from Cafe thread]:
I assume you're specifically thinking of Homicide, wrt NBC "hanging on" to a quality show despite bad ratings. I disagree to a large extent with that -- the only thing that kept Homicide there as long as it lasted was Levinson's name, and the fact that NBC had nothing better to put on Friday nights. Look how quickly it got shitcanned when Providence became a ratings success. They didn't even bother putting Homicide in the Saturday night ghetto -- just killed it.
Quality with a capital K.
10474. CalGal - 7/10/2000 11:09:22 PM
Well, Homicide also died because it was universally recognized that its sixth season sucked.
But I was also thinking of Seinfeld, which wasn't a hit for the first three years. Cheers wasn't either, as I recall.
10475. AceofSpades - 7/10/2000 11:34:38 PM
Dr. Strangelove was based on a novel called Red Alert, which was similar in some respects to Fail Safe. But it was a different novel.
10476. EricCartman - 7/10/2000 11:56:17 PM
Cal:
That's all true. I still suspect that part of the reason Homicide's final season blew so badly was because somebody -- maybe Levinson, maybe another producer, maybe NBC programming pinhead Warren Littlefield --pushed the writers to get more soapy. Then they could have left it in that slot, as a harder companion piece to Providence. Or not. It's just a theory. But it's awful strange how damned soapy it got so quickly.
Maybe they just wanted to keep up with NYPD Blue, another show coming off a pretty foul season. I think next season Sipowicz will get run over by a street sweeper and live (or else his kid will), and Danny will start banging Diane and completely screw up the entire squad room. Medavoy, of course, will still be a jerkoff.
10477. AceofSpades - 7/10/2000 11:59:29 PM
Jesus. What kind of a fucking homo is still babbling about Homicide?
Fucking grow a pair, Cartman. It's expected of women... but for you, it's frigging unseemly.
10478. AceofSpades - 7/11/2000 12:03:41 AM
Does anybody what to whine about them cancelling the James Brolin/Connie Selecca vehicle, Hotel?
10479. AceofSpades - 7/11/2000 12:08:00 AM
Waaaahhh... Why did they cancel Mama's Family> Waaaaah.
10480. EricCartman - 7/11/2000 12:08:27 AM
You have to read the whole conversation, dipshit. Homicide was just an example, though I guess I did milk that particular cow pretty dry there.
Hotel....Jesus Christ, that's scary. You probably still have fond memories of The A-Team, or Knight Rider.
10481. AceofSpades - 7/11/2000 12:11:46 AM
Hey Cartman, you wanna talk about Angie with me? How about Making a Living?
Let's talk brass tacks. Let's talk Too Close for Comfort.
10482. AceofSpades - 7/11/2000 12:12:12 AM
Toys.
10483. EricCartman - 7/11/2000 12:17:28 AM
Let's talk Too Close for Comfort.
Let's don't and say we did. I'll say three things about that show: 1) The blonde daughter was built like a brick shithouse.; 2) JM J. Bullock's character was a crypto-fascist metaphor for the bourgeois exploitation of the proletariat in a passive-aggressive domestic power structural dynamic. Or something.; 3) The blonde daughter really was fucking built.
10484. AceofSpades - 7/11/2000 12:20:12 AM
Eh, she was okay.
You know, most tv "Built" chicks ain't really that built. Not like, say, Julie Brown, or that Maid in the movie Clue.
10485. EricCartman - 7/11/2000 12:24:43 AM
Well, you figure if the camera adds 10 pounds, it probably also adds some inches to the sacred chestal area. But still....as for Julie Brown, do you mean the faux-limey dingbat from MTV, or the goofy redhead comedian who did the Truth or Dare parody? The redhead one, she was on The Daily Show recently, and you are correct sir -- they're huge. She must have had a kid, 'cause I don't remember them being that big before.
Heh -- welcome to Ace and Cart's Titty Talk: The Mote After Dark.
10486. AceofSpades - 7/11/2000 12:26:53 AM
No, she was always huge.
10487. EricCartman - 7/11/2000 12:31:08 AM
Hmmm. Must be a change in wardrobe then, something. I knew they were big, but on The Daily Show she was, er, busting out. Jon Stewart was really having to work at looking into her face, poor bastard. He had a shit-eating grin like he thought they were for him....
10488. AceofSpades - 7/11/2000 12:32:30 AM
She's actually in a soft-porn movie called The Pamela Principle. But she only has a bit part, as a pregnant bride-to-be, and does not show off her massive ta-tas.
Most egregious.
10489. EricCartman - 7/11/2000 12:36:17 AM
I saw part of that movie once, on Skinemax. One of those bullshit softcore movies, that sets up a perfectly good lesbo scene with a couple of hot chicks, then cops out by having them pretty much dance and rub -- or else it's a series of quick cutaways. If I remember right, The Pamela Principle didn't even do that much with its scene -- it was mostly suggested.
Fucking lame. It's not nice to tease about such matters where I come from.
10490. AceofSpades - 7/11/2000 12:46:35 AM
I know. Skinemax is the fucking worst. It's like-- it's ALMOST porn.
But it's not porn. Not anywhere close.
Soft porn is like all the BAD parts of porn. The "plot," the dialogue, the begining of intimacies. And then they cut to the next bit of bullshit.
If I were president, I'd make soft porn illegal. Not real porn. Just soft porn.
10491. EricCartman - 7/11/2000 1:02:40 AM
Exactly. It's like non-alcoholic beer. I mean, what's the fucking point?
10492. Cellar Door - 7/11/2000 1:56:17 AM
Just in from "X-Men." Really excellent. Even Ace should approve. Why does it work? Good script and a consistent tone. The effects work because they are all plot driven. Nothing is done simply to impress you -- like the stupid motorcycle chase in "Mission Indigestible: Deux"
Hugh jackman is fantastic as Wolverine. A star is born.
And Anna Pacquin can keep her Oscar.
Sir Ian has great fun, as does Patrick Stewart.
10493. Cellar Door - 7/11/2000 1:59:18 AM
10494. OhioSTOPAS - 7/11/2000 6:44:13 AM
Stop changing the subject, Cellar. Let's get back to Eric and Ace's "At the Porn Movies".
If they like a movie, it's two thumbs up. Or something like that.
10495. Cellar Door - 7/11/2000 9:20:09 AM
"JM J. Bullock's character was a crypto-fascist metaphor for the bourgeois exploitation of the proletariat in a passive-aggressive domestic power structural dynamic."
JM J. might well agree with you these days, Eric.
Tammy Faye certainly would.
10496. Indiana Jones - 7/11/2000 9:51:54 AM
Hotel?
What about Flying High????
10497. Indiana Jones - 7/11/2000 9:55:27 AM
Speaking of built blondes, one good line in Scary Movie:
During a talent contest at the high school when one female contestant gives a particularly effective dramatic performance, the judges all shout kudos. Among all the bravos and cheers, one distinctly hears the remark: "My god, she's the next Pamela Lee!"
10498. CalGal - 7/11/2000 6:36:17 PM
Hey, I just read that Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid broke up--and Ryan's new squeeze is Russell Crowe.
10499. marshame - 7/11/2000 6:44:13 PM
My opinion of her just went up and my opinion of him just went down.
10500. Cellar Door - 7/11/2000 6:45:50 PM
Dennis or Russell?
10501. marshame - 7/11/2000 6:50:22 PM
Russell. I have never been able to distinguish Dennis Quaid from several other Hollywood boys, all of whose names escape me. But you know who I mean.
Oh, and re Lady Chaos' shock and amazement that I would cheer a transvestite who scammed a Baptist church: as I recall, Ed talked his entire entourage into getting baptized (the full body emersion method in a swimming pool, no less) so I figure the Baptists got something out of it, too.
10502. CalGal - 7/11/2000 6:58:12 PM
I am very fond of Dennis Quaid; I like him much more than Meg Ryan--think he's more talented an actor (if less of a movie star). His recent career revival has been cheering.
10503. marshame - 7/11/2000 7:00:12 PM
Okay, who do I mix him up with? Who starred in Dancing with Wolves? Who was in Water World? The Postman?
10504. marshame - 7/11/2000 7:00:42 PM
Tin Cup?
10505. CalGal - 7/11/2000 7:04:35 PM
Kevin Costner.
Dennis Quaid was in The Big Easy, one of the best movies of the 80s, and was recently in Frequency (soppy, but he was good) and was really superb in a small part in Any Given Sunday.
10506. marshame - 7/11/2000 7:07:20 PM
Well that's it, then. Kevin Costner and Dennis Quaid are identical twins, in my mind. The fact that they have both had their marriages come apart makes them even more indistiguishable.
Okay, which one was in Bull Durham?
10507. Cellar Door - 7/11/2000 7:14:56 PM
Costner.
10508. marshame - 7/11/2000 7:18:10 PM
Cellar
Do you have any opinions on Survivor? Apparently, I am the only Motie with an interest in it. I am fascinated and repulsed; the perfect combination for a serial.
10509. Cellar Door - 7/11/2000 7:20:12 PM
I have no interest in it whatsoever. My idea of the "great outdoors" is a weekend in Palm Springs.
As for "reality" shows, I'm enthralled with Danny on "The Real World: New Orleans."
10510. marshame - 7/11/2000 7:30:21 PM
But see, that's what I mean about the revulsion. I would never, ever in a million years want to be in that place with those people. Their situation makes me relish civilization all the more.
And I haven't watched Real World since Hawaii. But it is similar - ya love'em, ya hate'em, ya can't help but watch'em.
10511. AytchMan - 7/11/2000 8:16:21 PM
Hi marshame--
I also like Survivor (which I'm reluctant to admit). While it's full of flaws, there's room for some interesting interactions and decisions among the troops.
Big Brother, on the other hand, is total dreck and is receiving some scathing reviews, all richly deserved.
10512. CalGal - 7/11/2000 9:18:36 PM
I think Cartman and Judith also watch the show. I can't bring myself to watch it, but the strategy involved has to be kind of interesting. It will be fun to read about it later.
Marshame, Costner and Quaid aren't similar at all; Costner didn't have a star wife. It is possible you have Costner further confused with Bruce Willis, whose marriage to Demi Moore did just recently end.
Dennis Quaid is Randy Quaid's brother--much better looking, and for a while was the bigger star. But in the past 10 years, Randy has carved out a much more impressive career as a supporting actor. But they are both quite good, imo.
10513. EricCartman - 7/11/2000 9:46:13 PM
Cal:
I caught about 20 minutes of the show a couple weeks ago, just to see what all the hoo-ha was about. And I still have no idea -- I was totally underwhelmed. I don't understand the appeal of this "reality" TV (which is not at all "reality") even a little bit. It's like watching your neighbors fight or something -- tacky and a bit creepy. IMHO, of course; it's just not my cup of tea. Still, occasionally I venture off my perch once in a while to see what's exciting everybody. But this "reality" TV reminds me of the longtime small-town "sport" of listening to one's scanner to hear who's getting pulled over by the cops. Rather unpleasant.
10514. CalGal - 7/11/2000 9:54:58 PM
That's my objection as well--I can't stand reality tv. I think I watched 20 minutes of Real LIfe, when Pablo or Pedro was sick.
10515. CalGal - 7/11/2000 9:59:01 PM
As to your friend's scanner--in my catchup on New Yorker magazines, there was an article about search engines. Very interesting, generally, but there were two things that just cracked me up. At a presentation, they put on the live feeds to Google to see what people were searching on. Nothing but line after line of search strings. It was supposed to just be a background effect, but people were far more interested in the feed than the speakers.
And the founder of Google says he never reads or watches the news anymore, he just looks to see what the top hits are for that day.
10516. EricCartman - 7/11/2000 10:16:26 PM
I believe it, sorry to say. It's not "my friend's scanner", anyway --"scanning" is something busybody old ladies frequently do in small towns (this one anyway). They know all the public police frequencies and listen in on where the cops are going. Some of them figure out how to listen in on cell phones, or nearby wireless home phones.
I wish I was joking, but that's what happens in small towns where everyone knows everyone else. It's really fucking creepy, when you get right down to it.
10517. PincherMartin - 7/11/2000 10:24:33 PM
I have no interest in it whatsoever. My idea of the "great outdoors" is a weekend in Palm Springs.
One of your best lines, Cellar. Is it yours?
10518. CalGal - 7/11/2000 10:36:28 PM
Oh, I know. Whenever people go on and on about the small town community, I am prone to barfing. I don't want to know my neighbors, thanks so much.
10519. Cellar Door - 7/11/2000 10:37:22 PM
Yep. It's mine.
10520. CalGal - 7/11/2000 10:38:06 PM
Has anyone seen Disney's The Kid, yet?
10521. arkymalarky - 7/11/2000 11:02:30 PM
Evidently, from what I read in the Little Rock rag the other day, the favored guy to last in Survivor was an Arky, but they booted him off the island.
10522. CalGal - 7/11/2000 11:05:43 PM
Well, they were worried he'd start humping sea lions or something. You know those Arkies.
10523. arkymalarky - 7/11/2000 11:08:15 PM
Hardeharhar.
10524. CalGal - 7/11/2000 11:12:43 PM
Seriously, why was he booted? I read that people are negotiating in and among themselves to get enough votes to ensure survival. Was that in the original plan, or did it just happen?
10525. arkymalarky - 7/11/2000 11:26:44 PM
I really don't know. I just skimmed a little, but I think it said something about strategies shifting to get the stronger ones off.
10526. arkymalarky - 7/11/2000 11:30:44 PM
BTW, I can relate to Eric's take on small-town nosiness, and maybe that's why I haven't found these real-life shows that interesting. What bugs me most, though, is the "look at me" syndrome.
10527. EricCartman - 7/12/2000 12:04:56 AM
Well, it's the ultimate populist statement -- people with no discernible talent starring in a hit show. Sorta like punk rock, except there's not even the pretense of a statement. You'd think script writers might have a problem with this trend, since it doesn't really require their services. And lord, it shows -- real people generally are pretty boring to watch.
But it's hard to bitch about shows like Survivor as heralding the decline of television or whatever. People in the past watched shows about flying nuns and talking cars, why not a bunch of ordinary schlubs scratching their asses and backstabbing each other on an unoccupied island?
I still say that the perfect ending to Survivor, though, would be that it turns out that the island is one of those atolls where the Frogs test their nukes every once in a while. And darn it, "once in a while" comes up.
10528. ButterfieldSwire - 7/12/2000 12:08:07 AM
Nothing closes a desert island show like an attack of army ants.
10529. CalGal - 7/12/2000 12:27:23 AM
I liked the atom bomb until I saw the ants suggestion. Laughed so hard I woke up Spawn and now he can't get back to sleep and is watching the Disney Channel and it's all your fault. This is why I hate hotel rooms.
10530. angel-five - 7/12/2000 1:38:24 AM
EC:
It's kind of scary how much prime time television is starting to resemble the Free Vee of King's novella 'The Running Man'.
The thing is, and you and I damn well know this, the ratings for the Bomb episode would be unbelievable. Like people care about these poor fuckers anyway, they're the equivalent of Springer guests, there to unintentionally make us laugh and despise them at the same time and occasionally give us a healthy dose of skin. But, oh, if we nuked them...
all of a sudden people would start going on about how they were people just like us and how they had rights and how wrong it was to videotape the last few moments before their dramatic departure in violent white silence. They wouldn't feel much more if any kinship with these ugly whiny dorks, deep down inside, no matter how disgusted they acted. But the outcry...
And it would get more viewers than the Bronco chase, the shooting of JR Ewing and the last six Super Bowls combined. Oh, the outrage... oh, look, (munch munch)this is the part where someone tells them they're about to die... look at that poor bitch's face.... The horror, the horror.
And, of course, we'd blame the French for it all... and some upper level functionary in the French nuclear ministry would resign abruptly in disgrace and suddenly take up baccarat and Maserati racing in Monaco under an assumed name, lighting his cheroots with thousand franc notes and rimming his wine glass with pure Peruvian flake... sitting in a hot tub surrounded by naked women, raising his medicinal chalice to the wall of big screen televisions whenever the next episode of Survivor came on, his opposite number in Hollywood fielding his cell calls in like style, 'oui, oui, zees ees ze best un' yet, chust tell me ven you need zee ozair bomb', 'yes, Jean, we'll pencil it in for the end of the next season, excuse me, my stock options just doubled again, gotta go, toodle-ooo'.
10531. angel-five - 7/12/2000 1:40:51 AM
And if you doubt this, ask yourself, really ask yourself... if you were channel surfing, and suddenly Survivor came up on the screen and someone was about to nuke all these little idiots and they were running around like rats in a firestorm, if it was really happening...
...if you'd change the channel.
10532. Cellar Door - 7/12/2000 11:25:32 AM
The good news is that "Big Brother" is bombing. Let's hope it means that these "reality"/gimmick shows have hit the wall.
10533. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2000 11:45:02 AM
Jesus you guys are really something....along with the above mentioned shows about flying nuns and talking cars, most TV just isn't that compelling. Survivor and other shows like it are DIVERTING...they aren't claiming to be Neorealist Italian Cinema or German Surrealist Volksmensch Kino....give me a break. It's a diverting half hour or so out of ones week; it's harmless.
You can deconstruct it down to voyuerism or the beginning of the end of civilization or whatever but I say it is no better and certainly no worse that movies with Adam Sandler and certainly a lot more interesting than half of what is on commercial TV. Sure, we'd all be better off if we sat down and re-read War and Peace but most of us just want a few laughs and something mildly entertaining at the end of the day.
10534. Cellar Door - 7/12/2000 11:53:25 AM
That's why I'm looking forward to the new show from the "AbFab" gang --"Mirrorball."
10535. angel-five - 7/12/2000 12:00:48 PM
You can deconstruct it down to voyuerism or the beginning of the end of civilization or whatever but I say it is no better and certainly no worse that movies with Adam Sandler and certainly a lot more interesting than half of what is on commercial TV.
Well, if this is the best yardstick you can grab, maybe you shouldn't bother trying to defend it and just enjoy it instead. Nobody's stopping you, you know. But saying it's no better or worse than a Sandler flick is sort of like saying 'getting high on grass is no worse than drinking a fifth of vodka every three hours' -- it might be true, but it's hardly compelling...
10536. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2000 12:14:14 PM
I'm not trying to defend it and I should think that would be obvious by my mentioning Sandler. I was merely saying it isn't THAT bad and it isn't as though anyone is forcing YOU to watch it, either. I would imagine hoards of people out there are enjoying it and they are blissfully unaware that it isn't "cool" to do so...you can snigger at their lack of sophstication all you want but keep in mind, these are the great unwashed who may be voting in the next election.
And yes, I may have sounded as though I was aligning myself with them by using the words "most of us" but I meant that in the editorial "we" sense. Personally, I couldn't care less about who is watching and who isn't...obviously someone is and probably a few intelligent people are among them.
10537. marshame - 7/12/2000 12:28:54 PM
I'm with Judith. I enjoy Survivor, because a) I'm glad it's not me, and b) I think it is very interesting to see how people cope in adverse situations, and c) the human dynamics of survival (getting voted off) are getting more and more interesting.
Arky - was the guy from Arkansas Dirk the dairy farmer? Ostensibly, he was voted off because he is losing weight and looking emaciated. But I think the real reason he was voted off is because he brought a Bible and had the politically incorrect poor taste to read it.
One guy that definitely should go is Jerves. He lost them the grub-worm eating round, and he was a liability in two of the contests because he can't swim, he said that women are as stupid as cows, and he, by his own admission, does as little work as possible. But, he is the only remaining minority (African American) so he did not get a single vote to be kicked off the island last week. Rather, they picked Joel the personal fitness trainer, because, despite his athletic prowess, he is too arrogant. Wow, talk about a study in human dynamics!
Now that they are down to 5 persons per team, they are combining the teams. The one tribe (Tagi?) has already decided that they are going to vote as a block to off the other tribe members one by one. But I am curious to see how long that alliance lasts.
10538. rubberducky - 7/12/2000 12:37:41 PM
Re: Message # 10537, marshame.
"Ostensibly, he was voted off because he is losing weight and looking emaciated. But I think the real reason he was voted off is because he brought a Bible and had the politically incorrect poor taste to read it."
some of the reading i've done makes the point that the bible wasn't the issue as much as his preaching to the uninterested was. i mean, if i have to eat grubs and be seen on national tv without a shower and comb, then the last thing i wanna do is listen to a spill about religion.
10539. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2000 12:37:42 PM
There is a whole thread over in TT devoted to this show that is almost more interesting than the show. There have been discussions of gender politics, religious bias, egocentrism, age-ism, the entire spectrum of life lessons....it's fascinating.
10540. marshame - 7/12/2000 12:41:26 PM
Rubber
Of course all we know is what we see televised. I never saw Dirk initiate a conversation about religion. Rather, someone would come over to him and ask him why he was reading the Bible. So he would answer them. Now I hardly consider that "preaching."
10541. rubberducky - 7/12/2000 12:49:46 PM
M&M
well, i don't watch it so i wouldn't know. i just find your take an interesting one. so not how the articles read.
if i find one, i'll post it and see if you agree.
and, if he used the question as a chance to go into too much detail (i.e. spoke about it more than a couple minutes) then i'd probably call that preaching - especially if the preachee doesn't look interested.
10542. marshame - 7/12/2000 1:24:21 PM
Rubber
If we booted people off for talking too much about things that interest them, I dare say there would be no survivors. Present company included.
10543. christino - 7/12/2000 1:26:57 PM
Uh.....from what I recall he got booted off because they felt he was wasting time with continual fruitless fishing. He was certainly trying to help, but if you've been fishing every day for three weeks and haven't caught anything then really what you have at the end is nothing to show for the time.
10544. AytchMan - 7/12/2000 1:28:08 PM
Why is Big Brother tanking while Survivor thrives?
10545. marshame - 7/12/2000 1:30:35 PM
Christin
,i>"continual fruitless fishing"
No, you're thinking of Sean the Doctor with his super pole. He's the one they're threatening to boot because of the fishing.
10546. marshame - 7/12/2000 1:32:54 PM
I haven't seen Big Brother yet, but I did watch snatches of the first epidsode where they show the set up and introduce several of the folks. They have built in a lot of guaranteed stressors in Big Brother, such as a small refrigerator, small kitchen, etc. I give it exactly one day before someone gets in a fight with someone about not cleaning up after themselves in the kitchen.
Did you see the second episode, atychman? That's the one where the viewing dropped in half.
10547. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2000 1:34:59 PM
But Dirk was with Sean on the raft and even he admitted he hadn't produced any fish.
Big Brother is tanking because until last night, the shows were very dull and had no conflict whatsoever.
10548. christino - 7/12/2000 1:35:33 PM
Ah-ha...that's what I get for only hearing what's going on intermittently from the cave of my room where I've been banished by my roommies TV addiction.
I woke up this morning to what sounded suspiciously like a porno playing in the living room. Turns out it was a work-out tape but with the lousy Casio score in the back-ground and the huffing and puffing while a breathy female voice urged "Just a little more....yeah....now faster...faster.....three more....you're almost there...two more....come on now you can do it....one more....Woooooo!"
You can see how I might've been confused.
10549. marshame - 7/12/2000 1:40:03 PM
"Dirk was with Sean on the raft"
Yes, so if the reason was fishing, it should have been Sean, since he is the one who's idea it is, who designed the pole, and who pushes the raft out every day. Just like Jerves was the one who said women are dumber than cows, but it was Joel who got the boot for being arrogant. Very interesting dynamics, very interesting.
10550. AytchMan - 7/12/2000 1:40:28 PM
marshame--
I managed to sit through about ten minutes of the second show and vowed never to repeat the experience. It was dreadful. Which prompted my question above. At the most fundamental level, the two shows are very similar: a small group of people marooned somewhere for a month or two. And yet, Survivor is so much more appealing.
10551. marshame - 7/12/2000 1:43:46 PM
Survivor has interesting things like poisonous snakes, edible slugs, a gong. Big Brother has a small refrigerator.
I can see the difference!
Now is it (BB) being broadcast every night?
10552. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2000 1:47:42 PM
I tried watching Survivor once for just a few minutes, but wasn't interested. I also watched Big Brother for 15 or 20 minutes when the one woman was talking about how terrible her husband was while they made a salad.
For once I somewhat agree with a-5, because my reaction was that it's like Judge Judy or Montel or whatever, but you get to go home with the people after the show. Yeccchhhhh.
And now we're reduced to talking about a show about people living "real" lives. Judith's comment about the TT thread is even more of a telescoped mirror: a remark about people talking about a show about people living "ordinary" lives. (And now I've commented about her comment about...well, you get the idea.)
It does make me think once more that Huxley and not Orwell had the more accurate view of the future.
10553. AytchMan - 7/12/2000 1:50:32 PM
judith--
Big Brother is tanking because until last night, the shows were very dull and had no conflict whatsoever.
Very true but I think it's more than that. To me, the idea of watching a bunch of people walled up in a claustrophobic urban environment (even if they begin to murder each other) is inherently less appealing than the classic deserted tropical island. The cramped quarters of Big Brother are terminally offputting even if cannibalism breaks out.
10554. rubberducky - 7/12/2000 1:54:35 PM
"The cramped quarters of Big Brother are terminally offputting even if cannibalism breaks out."
i dunno. i'd be interested to see what marinades they can make out of what's available in the house.
10555. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2000 1:55:11 PM
heh
10556. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2000 1:55:23 PM
H.....so very true. And the location looks exactly like an Ikea store.
But the 24 hour webcast is getting a lot of viewers. In fact, they are voting on the first 2 to be voted on by the public right now. Tomorrow night they will show that on the TV feed and we'll all get to vote for one or the other to be axed.
10557. AytchMan - 7/12/2000 2:05:34 PM
Indy--
You're right of course. BB and Survivor certainly open themselves up to the charge of purveying television quality at the level of traffic accidents on I-35. Everybody deplores the accidents yet everybody slows down to look.
And yet...
Discussing the motivations of the people on the shows and of the people who watch is not simply further reductions of rubbernecking. At least not necessarily.
btw, which Huxley? Aldous of Brave New World?
10558. AytchMan - 7/12/2000 2:08:19 PM
judith--
I'd forgotten about the webcasts -- viewer interaction and all. The ability to wield power over the lives of the guinea pigs may put a floor under the show's ratings independent of the show's quality.
10559. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2000 2:13:24 PM
AytchMan: I have no problem with people watching, just not my cup of tea. OTOH while not a total TV boycotter, I haven't watched a show all the way through probably in at least two weeks. The only show I used to try to see every week was The Simpsons, and I haven't even seen it in months. If I had cable, things might be different, so I don't.
I did mean Aldous Huxley. It's been a long time since I read Brave New World, but my memories of it are the folks had drugs to control how they felt, reproduction was achieved through more and more technological means, and in general people had existences far removed from their more earthy origins. Of course the immediate discussion is also reminiscent of Fahrenheit 451 and how the wife was always wanting the fourth TV wall added so she could be totally absorbed into the TV family she lived with every day.
10560. christino - 7/12/2000 4:03:01 PM
Indy,
Would you like to trade places with my roommate? If not for here I wouldn't even have turned the television on in the last two months except for the one time I rented movies.
I don't hate TV as a concept but unless there's something on that I really want to see---usually there isn't----then the sound of it makes me hostile because it's so incredibly invasive.
10561. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2000 4:40:54 PM
ChristinO:
Would I!?
Don't get me wrong...it's not that I hate TV or anything. If there was more stuff on that I liked I'd probably watch it more--and I do like movies. But I just can't tolerate commercials anymore. The remote helps, but with only four channels (five if the weather cooperates), they're not always avoidable. That's why I see portions of shows--first commercial break I surf around and click it off.
For those avid TV viewers, try not using the cable for a while and see how much you still like TV with limited channels and poor reception. Then think about paying $40 or so bucks every month to have something that makes you waste time like TV. (If I didn't watch it, I would feel like I was wasting money.)
With rentals, I can watch something I really want to when I have the time. And at least with the Internet, I feel like there's some kind of interaction.
10562. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2000 4:49:39 PM
I was a cable-phobic for a long time; in fact, I didn't get cable til last year and we don't watch JUST cable even now. We just watch it for the Sopranos and things on A&E and the occassional movie and the Westminster Dog Show. :-)
I watch mostly the four major networks at night unless (see above). I mute the ads and we talk to each other while they are on or I play with the dog or work a crossword...I don't just sit there like a zombie. But I can do more than one thing at a time and usually do unless it is a riveting program. Which on network, it usually isn't. And we sometimes don't even turn the TV on at night. Hard to believe but true.
10563. Indiana Jones - 7/12/2000 5:07:52 PM
Judith: All the talk about Sopranos made me waver a bit. Still haven't seen it. Was really disappointed by Sex in the City, the other hyped cable show.
Like you, I see snatches of it while doing other things. Just rarely see a show all the way through and haven't seen many of the current offerings at all. If you named a primetime show it would be more likely I hadn't seen it than I had.
And commercials are another reason I've all but given up watching sports. The last two minutes of NBA games, for example, are 5 to 1 commercials over content.
10564. JudithAtHome - 7/12/2000 5:12:57 PM
Yes, they are doing that with 2 hour movies, too...last 45 minutes are all commercials with a stitch of movie here and there.
Sex and the City is fluff and not at all well done fluff but the Sopranos rules! It's the reason I pay $47 every month....well, that and good reception and A&E.
10565. arkymalarky - 7/12/2000 5:53:55 PM
Marsh,
I think Joel was the AR guy. He's from Sherwood and is a businessman I think. In the picture in the paper he was pretty buff, but sort of cocky-looking. Kind of like a freshly graduated frat guy or something.
10566. christino - 7/12/2000 6:32:41 PM
We've talked about getting Direct TV because our cable company sucks rocks. The cool think about DTV would be that we get two receivers for the price of one which means that the television in her bedroom would get all the channels with good reception that the TV in the living room does. So the whole house wouldn't have to be taken over by whatever shlock she had going in the background at all times.
Here's the thing: Yes, there are things on cable that I would enjoy watching. I've seen the Sopranos a couple of times and thought it was great. I even like ER and could likely get interested in all kinds of other shows BUT what does it really subtract from my life if I don't see them?
Is my life less full by missing the experience of Friends? Will my peers leave me hopelessly behind because I don't know what's happening on The Practice? Do I become a cultural and social outcast by not waiting with baited breath for the start of the new season?
The answer comes back a resounding "No."
Don't get me wrong. I'm not doing anything more edifying. The pulp I read certainly isn't high-brow, however my indulgence doesn't require that anyone else leave the room unless they want to join me.
oh my lordy lordy I have been ranting about this forever.
I SOOOO need to live alone!
10567. angel-five - 7/13/2000 1:44:06 AM
I watch television very very sparingly. I'll turn on Futurama, I'll watch the Simpsons if it isn't a crappy episode, I'll watch some PBS, I'll catch the odd bit of a show here and there and every once in a while I'll just veg for an hour or so. If I were to actually start watching television, I'd get cable just because with a good cable provider you get larger amounts of television that actually has some content to it, and network television mostly sucks rocks.
It's pretty much like Ms. No said, actually. Even if I'm watching some interesting science or historical program or some of the better PBS programming, my life isn't really any richer or poorer for having spent the time. It's just a way to waste ninety-eight percent of the time you put into watching it in the first place; if you have time to waste and want to waste it watching television, there's no reason why you shouldn't. The once exception I have to the rule is simple -- parents probably owe it to their children to not let the television be their children's babysitter.
10568. EricCartman - 7/13/2000 1:47:40 AM
Judith/Marshame Message # 10535 et al:
Hey, don't get me wrong. If you enjoy it, great, knock yourselves out. I certainly don't expect, or even want TV to be Art. It's not like I'm sneering at Survivor en route to my weekly viewing of Upstairs Downstairs. I just don't get the enormous popularity of these sorts of shows.
And on a larger scale, I suppose, I also don't understand how the whole deal is thought of as "reality TV". There is nothing real about it, except that the performers are amateurs. Strangers are flung together with people they wouldn't hang out with, in a place where they wouldn't go, and forced to do things they wouldn't normally do. The interaction is filmed, edited with an eye towards "dramatic" effect, and packaged like a garden-variety soap opera. That's every bit as contrived as Seinfeld, or Dharma and Greg, or whatever. It's just that writers have been taken out of the loop; the "creative content" comes entirely from judicious editing. This is what makes the "positive deconstructivists" in TT so silly -- they may as well be deconstructing Mannix, for all the true sociological insight. We're talking about a control group with an agenda, so all bets are off.
But whatever. Just because I don't get it certainly doesn't mean someone else shouldn't enjoy it. However, I do become curious at how the definition of "reality" has altered in this context, when essentially left to the devices of tape editors and marketing execs.
10569. EricCartman - 7/13/2000 1:49:27 AM
It reminds me of a "concert review" I read in the newspaper the other day. The "boy band" in question (no names -- let's call them "N") had just "performed" a "live concert", according to the "music critic" (she was -- her byline said so). Now, during the review, the "critic" blithely mentioned that the "band" (which generally implies people who compose music and play actual instruments) had a group of musicians on stage with them to "play" the songs which none of them had actually written. This happens sometimes; teeny-boppers expect choreography and smiley faces with their "live" renditions of prom music. For what tickets cost, that's understandable. Actually playing instruments means you occasionally have to look down and see where your hands are going. That's no fun for the audience -- they can't can't gooey unless you look at them, for Pete's sake.
But get this -- the "critic" also mentions that "N", in addition to the group of attendant musicians, also had taped backing tracks (musical and vocal) piped in through the sound system to "augment" the "performance". Because apparently five vocalists and five more musicians are not quite adept enough at recreating the perfectly canned sound just so. Sometime while I apparently had my back turned, having studio sound at a "live" event became de rigueur.
10570. EricCartman - 7/13/2000 1:51:05 AM
To say the least, this smacks of serious "unclear on the concept", folks. The whole thing is a big lie from the top down -- pre-fab music churned out by hack songwriters, recorded by union studio rats, produced by other union studio guys, lip-synched to on stage by two brothers and three of their friends, none of whom can play so much as the theme from Beverly Hills Cop on a Casio keyboard. And yet none dare call it for what it is -- canned studio fakery. Hell, even the "music critic", whom one would think has a handle on assessing these things, regards it as normal.
So. Since we refer to "sociological aspects" of things like "reality TV", that is the "aspect" I wonder most about, why real "real" people -- the audience -- look at such cheesy and uncreative "redefinitions" (really, re-marketing) and call it good, or even good enough. How it becomes popular, or as they say in the new cultural paradigm, a "pop culture phenomenon". I don't wonder why people don't watch Art, because I sure as hell don't watch it myself. I just wonder why, if folks really want "reality" and "sociolgical aspects", they don't just watch their neighbors. It just seems very strange, and cognitively dissonant.
10571. angel-five - 7/13/2000 1:58:25 AM
Oh, yeah, and I reserve the right to laugh my ass off at the people who are really honestly entertained by crap television. No apologies there. Growing up I lived next door to this old hilljack woman; her favorite pastime was watching wrestling and late into the night you could hear her honest, plaintive voice as she yelled at the wrestling referee for being so dumb and easily distracted.
The fact that these people exist in significant numbers is probably the only reason why I ever developed such a misanthropic sense of humor. But at any rate I now have it and will shamelessly indulge it whenever the mood strikes me.
10572. angel-five - 7/13/2000 2:00:12 AM
Oh, yes, you're the real Slim Shady, Eric.
10573. EricCartman - 7/13/2000 2:25:03 AM
A5:
I hope that's good. I've always thought of myself as a wholesome synthesis of Chuck D and Flavor Flav, with the guitar chops of Michael Schenker (on occasion).
And I haven't pistol-whipped anyone lately for looking at my wife (but I will if I must, goddammit).
10574. CalGal - 7/13/2000 10:22:26 AM
I quite like TV, although the quality of the good shows was much higher in 96-98 than in the last two years. I miss having a number of shows I enjoy watching; at this point it's West Wing and L&O. I didn't even really care for the Sopranos this year--much weaker, at least the first time through. But for as far back as I can remember, I've always watched more movies on TV than TV shows.
Which brings up some questions: Suppose ChristinO had said that she never goes to movies. Is her life less full for not watching movies? Will her peers leave her behind if she doesn't know the punchlines in Chicken Run? And so on. Yet no one asks the same questions about movies in general--even though there are good movies, bad movies, worthless movies, and so on.
TV's just another form of entertainment. It seems obvious to say so, yet I never seem to see the same soulsearching over the other ways we all have of wasting time.
If you're looking for another way to spend your money, I highly recommend digital cable. Not much more expensive than the regular cable, and you'll almost always find a movie on.
10575. Indiana Jones - 7/13/2000 11:00:46 AM
Cal, some differences between going to the movies and TV: you usually go with someone, you get out of the house, you have a specific film in mind of limited duration. But I agree that it's still a mostly vicarious, somewhat passive experience.
I want to emphasize, though, that I'm not criticizing how other people spend their time when they make a conscious decision that it's something they enjoy doing and prefer to other activities.
(I also think the more we accept whatever the networks shove at us, the more crap we'll get.)
10576. CalGal - 7/13/2000 11:09:33 AM
I didn't see anyone as critical; I was questioning the basic justifications--either for watching, or not watching, TV.
And in the case of movies, what about rentals, or watching movies on TV? I'm pretty sure that nearly everyone does that regularly.
10577. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 11:19:40 AM
A-5:
I feel much better no that I know you watch cartoons.
10578. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 11:20:40 AM
NOW, now that I know....
10579. Indiana Jones - 7/13/2000 11:56:02 AM
Speaking of movies, this DVD player seems to clip some sounds once in a while when I'm watching a movie. It works without a hitch on CDs, so it's not the sound per se. Just on films the sound is like it's dropping part of it or something every so often, reminiscent of how you lose frames when you overwork hardware on a video clip.
Any ideas about that? Could it just be the DVD instead of the player? (Don't remember it in The Haunting, but probably wasn't paying close enough attention.)
10580. marshame - 7/13/2000 11:57:04 AM
Well then, now that we're done analyzing, it's time for the Survivors update.
The two tribes of 5 each were merged into one (Ratanna), and the way they carried on you'd think it was a 10-year family reunion. They were all such great friends, so happy to see each other, hear each other's stories, etc. etc.
Meanwhile, the 4-person secret coalition that formed on Tagi (Richard the gay corporate consultant, Susan the hard truck driver, Rudy the hardtack 72-year-old, and Kelly the ditzy river guide) solidified their plan to vote the other tribe members off one by one. Richard and Susan are the cold calculating ones. Kelly is being led along, probably to remain as easy prey in the end. Rudy was coerced into joining, and he knows it. He knows his days are numbered and that he is surviving as long as Richard and Susan want him to. Sean the pretty doctor was also part of that tribe but refuses to join the voting block, considering it unethical. Richard thinks he is stupid to think so.
So here comes the naive Pagong tribe: Gretchen the smart and capable teacher, Greg the space case, Gervase the black do-nothing, Colleen the pretty feather-head, and Jenna the single mom.
The contest has now changed. Instead of each tribe getting immunity from having to vote someone off, now it a contest for individual immunity. In a contest to hold your breath and swim under water, Greg the 24-year old wins.
10581. marshame - 7/13/2000 11:57:29 AM
So the voting to boot someone off comes. Almost everyone gets one vote, except: the secret Tagi voting coalition all vote for Gretchen. She is stunned, and everyone else, except the smug voting coalition is shocked. So far, the weak ones have been voted off, because they couldn't pull their weight, were hard to get along with, etc. But Gretchen is the strongest, most capable one of the Pagong.
Ooooh.... now we get it! The strategy has now changed. Instead of voting off the weak ones, the "coalition" is voting off the strong ones, leaving the weak ones for the end.
I don't care what the rest of you say, this show holds my attention!
And yes, I totally agree with Eric that how it is edited tells all. but I believe it is edited to underscore the voting decisions in the end. For example, the clips show how level-headed and hard-working Gretchen is, and how lacking her other tribe members are. And the edited clips show how cold and calculating Richard is and how conniving Susan is, how dumb Kelly is and how trapped Rudy is. All this makes the voting outcome fall into clear perspective. But thank goodness it is edited, otherwise, we'd have true reality TV which would be very boring, if we had to sit through hours and hours of pointless discussion and butt scratching, etc. I think the editing is very effective. Afterall, I am watching this for entertainment.
10582. angel-five - 7/13/2000 12:15:38 PM
Judith: I also watch 'Batman Beyond'.
10583. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 12:24:13 PM
If it wasn't edited, you'd have the Big Brother webcast.
10584. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 12:28:26 PM
Cartman 568--
I just don't get the enormous popularity of these sorts of shows.
And on a larger scale, I suppose, I also don't understand how the whole deal is thought of as "reality TV".
I think the whole concept is a reaction to the relentless "packaging" of TV shows over the last couple of decades. When TV first started, everything was live. Over the years, the paradigm has shifted to where almost everything now is canned. So the inveterate TV watchers are starved for anything that approaches live television.
The "reality" shows (and it's a bad term) reflect this. Stage-management notwithstanding, Cops and Survivor now deliver the closest TV actually gets to live, unpredictable entertainment.
10585. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 12:36:29 PM
There's also the element of "I'm better than you are". Witness the popularity of those "call the play" football game hookups -- "I can do a better job than that cheesehead". Whatever the actual quality level, shows that offer some interactivity with the audience will fare somewhat better in the ratings than without it.
10586. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 12:52:27 PM
Cartman--
The interaction is filmed, edited with an eye towards "dramatic" effect, and packaged like a garden-variety soap opera. That's every bit as contrived as Seinfeld, or Dharma and Greg, or whatever.
Well, not quite and I think that's a key difference. While the shows are heavily packaged, there's no official script. In fact, I'm sure the producers are dying for a multitude of unscripted moments -- emotional outbursts, the odd fistfight, romantic entanglements. And that's exactly the appeal to the viewer. If something unpredictable happens, we'll see it because they'll film it.
This goes to the desperation of the Jerry Springer Show. Because even the fights are scripted (and the viewers sensed this after the first three), Springer had to raise the stakes to stem the ratings erosion. Viewers want believable unpredictability in their shows. Yes/no?
10587. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 1:01:40 PM
Cart--
I wonder most about, why real "real" people -- the audience -- look at such cheesy and uncreative "redefinitions" (really, re-marketing) and call it good, or even good enough.
If, by "good", you mean "good quality", I don't think we do (I sure don't). I fall back on the Accident on I-35 analogy. (Almost) everybody deplores the rubbernecking and (almost) everybody slows down to look, wince, and say to themselves "Yuk, what a mess". Chalk it up to a guilty pleasure in the vast wasteland.
10588. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 2:02:45 PM
H-man...I agree. We may feel bad about looking but we do so, anyway.
I think that even tho these shows are edited with an eye toward commercialism, there are still surprises: last nights Survivor proved that.
10589. Indiana Jones - 7/13/2000 2:05:36 PM
BTW, I think marshame did a better job of analyzing the show's dynamics--at least to a nonviewer--in posts 10580 and 10581 than the Bryant Gumble commentators on this morning. She made it sound interesting.
10590. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 2:10:26 PM
Just to tweak the anti-Survivor cabal, is there any interest in a bragging-rights pool on who will win? If so, I'll put together a summary of who's left. Members of the cabal are invited to participate.
10591. rubberducky - 7/13/2000 3:40:58 PM
Interesting.
"Confirming rumors that have been floating around the Web for weeks, Lucasfilm today announced the casting of ex-NYPD Blue star Jimmy Smits in George Lucas' Star Wars: Episode II."
i don't think Smits is all that great an actor myself, but i guess we'll see what we see.
10592. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 3:45:42 PM
Please Jimmy...say it isn't so! I can't believe he would stoop to that!
H-man...I'm in; just let me know what I need to do.
10593. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 3:47:04 PM
Ducks...why do you think an actor needs to be "great" to be in a Star Wars movie? Stoic I can see, but "great"?
10594. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 3:50:07 PM
judith--
Not much. I'll post a short summary of who's left, tomorrow I guess. Then, everybody picks, let's say, the final three and the ultimate survivor.
And, remember, no wagering.
10595. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 3:52:25 PM
If I don't put my vote in, it will be because I have to work tomorrow afternoon but I'll check in Saturday AM to see how it went...
10596. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 3:53:48 PM
That's fine. As long as it's before Wednesday when the next show airs.
10597. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 3:54:48 PM
Cool...
10598. rubberducky - 7/13/2000 3:59:20 PM
Re: Message # 10593, JudithAtHome.
"Ducks...why do you think an actor needs to be "great" to be in a Star Wars movie? Stoic I can see, but "great"?"
for the same reason i bought the Transformers movie and have seen the original trilogy more times than i'll say. that is, it's a large chunk of my childhood and i still get a kick out of it. it's a reason why i never get into "serious" discussions about 80's pop culture or why Star Wars was a rip-off of this or that. i love it too much to separate myself from it.
so, when i see average television actors being picked to possibly star in the movie i'm most looking forward to seeing next year ... i'm disappointed.
10599. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 4:01:43 PM
Well, put your fears to rest then because the man is not an "average" actor; he is very good. I'd watch him in anything before I'd watch Harrison Ford.
10600. rubberducky - 7/13/2000 4:11:01 PM
J@H:
so the thought of a "romantic triangle with young Anakin" and Smits and Portman doesn't turn your stomach?
blech
10601. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 4:15:02 PM
ducks:
No, the idea of Smits being in this movie turns my stomach. Unlike you, I am no fan of the genre.
10602. rubberducky - 7/13/2000 4:17:24 PM
sci-fi?
turns your stomach?
heresy i say!
10603. EricCartman - 7/13/2000 4:31:51 PM
H-Man Message # 10584:
I think the whole concept is a reaction to the relentless "packaging" of TV shows over the last couple of decades. When TV first started, everything was live. Over the years, the paradigm has shifted to where almost everything now is canned. So the inveterate TV watchers are starved for anything that approaches live television.
I disagree completely. TV viewing has never been so large-scale in trends, as to react to several decades of "canned" product. It moves more in two- to three-season ranges -- a couple years of jiggle shows here, a couple years of doctor shows there. Besides, reacting to "packaging" by watching more "packaging" is rather odd, to say the least. You're pre-supposing a level of spontaneity that really isn't there -- it's just reputed to be.
The "reality" shows (and it's a bad term) reflect this. Stage-management notwithstanding, Cops and Survivor now deliver the closest TV actually gets to live, unpredictable entertainment.
Not to mention unprofessional. See, that's what I don't like about it -- there's no actual creative element. Even a piece of crap show like Too Close for Comfort or whatever requires some small measure of professionalism --writers, people to construct and design sets, actors who have at least some timing and ability.
So the question becomes: just how compelling is a "storyline", when it's "performed" by regular people who are merely reacting in front of an indifferent camera? To me, not very.
10604. EricCartman - 7/13/2000 4:33:07 PM
I dunno, maybe I'm spoiled. Since I have DSS, if I don't like something, it's almost a sure bet that I can cruise around until I find something I actually do like. I don't have to find a reason to sit through anything just because I don't feel like reading. So maybe that's why I'm a little more picky. Also I don't watch much TV to begin with, especially in the summer, when 99% of it really sucks.
But more than that, it's just a matter of expecting at least a small level of competence, in the creative process. But with "reality TV", with Survivor, or Cops, or When Rabid Dogs Attack Mailmen 3, there is no creative process to observe. It's just a manipulative editing process, designed to convey the impression of spontaneity and cinema verité. It's the logical extension of Candid Camera, or worse yet, America's Funniest Home Videos, the show that proves once and for all that people think some yahoo knocking his dog into a pool to try to win ten grand is funny.
See, this is all the fault of Allen Funt, and that goddamned Bob Saget.
Whatever the actual quality level, shows that offer some interactivity with the audience will fare somewhat better in the ratings than without it.
Well, maybe that's where I just don't get it. I don't want to participate in the entertainment. I want to see what creative people have to offer me in the form of entertainment. I don't want to be involved in it; that doesn't interest me in the least. That's not entertaining, that's like being invited to a party, and being told to biring your own food, your own drink, your own chair, and maybe a book. Well fuck, you might just as well stay home then.
10605. EricCartman - 7/13/2000 4:34:30 PM
Viewers want believable unpredictability in their shows. Yes/no?
Yes, and that's pretty much what I was talking about last night, wrt the "concert review". There is a real logical disconnect when you can drop $50 to go see what is basically karaoke on a stadium scale, and hear exactly what you would have heard if you just stayed home and played the CD or watched the video, yet still operate under the fallacy that you saw a "live music event".
Same here with the "reality TV" deal; it's like pro wrestling --everyone knows it's fake, but the fun is in pretending it's real, apparently. I don't know, I'm assuming. Mind you, I'm not necessarily scoffing at the whole thing, I really just don't get it. Reality is not interesting as entertainment -- if it were we'd all just watch our neighbors and each other, going through our daily paces. So there is in fact a whole set of contrivances, in the people, in the location, in the activities, in the conflicts. People are doing what they would not do ordinarily. Thus it is not "real"; it is pretending to be "real". And it is that emperor's new clothes aspect of the whole deal that I fail to grasp. I'm not much of a rubbernecker either. Go figure.
Chalk it up to a guilty pleasure in the vast wasteland.
Sure, that's fine. It's when it reaches "pop culture event" proportions that I get a little antsy, 'cause then it becomes time to lower expectations even more for the next trend. Whether it's faux-creative shows on TV pretending to have some sort of sociological import, or faggy little karaoke teenybopper bands dominating the pop musical milieu, the suck ratio inexorably increases.
10606. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 4:38:28 PM
Eric:
Do you like plays?
10607. EricCartman - 7/13/2000 4:45:18 PM
Judith:
You know, I've never been to a play. I probably would like it, though. I've read a few plays, read a few movie scripts. It's certainly a different way of reading, so I assume that seeing a play would certainly be much different than seeing a movie.
I would think it would be like going to an true live music concert, where you know the songs, and the fun of it is in seeing the musicians improvise here or there -- or even drop a note once in a while. Mistakes are OK; they remind you that it is indeed a trapeze act of sorts. The performers have a skill (or several), and you get to watch them being employed.
I know you watch Oz; did you see the season premiere last night?
10608. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 5:04:39 PM
Oh no.......I missed it! It will be re-run, though, right? I can't believe I missed it. Was it good?
I go to as many plays as I can; they are my preferred form of entertainment.
10609. glendajean - 7/13/2000 5:16:51 PM
Eric -- Much like the early tv wrestling match audiences, I doubt if the majority of those who watch Real World, Survivor, or Big Brother have thought very much about how real or phony, how manipulated these programs are.
Do they know when there is a tense moment, an argument between two people, or some secret being confessed, and there's a close-up on the screen with the music swelling, that the folks are standing in front of at least one cameraman and a sound person? Probably not.
The programs themselves work hard to keep that away from us -- although from what I've seen of Big Brother there is some constant reminder that technicians are monitoring everything ala The Truman Show.
We live in Oprah land, or Jerry Springer land. Public confession about private secrets. Public displays of emotion. These so-called reality shows give audiences their fill of such behavior, and manipulate the "telling" of it much like any ole run of the mill soap opera.
I never watch soap operas, but I assume they have traveled a long piece from what they used to be like. I saw a preview the other night for Days of Our Lives where a high school prom turns into a remake of of Carrie. They can't compete with the new reality programming.
10610. janjon - 7/13/2000 6:41:48 PM
There indeed is something about both its being live and the immediacy of a play that makes it special. And, the smaller the venue the better. I actually prefer "good" amateur groups to most professional productions. (In New York, even some of the straight plays are miked. At least not with those obscene headphone type little mikes that are used in the musicals.)
10611. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 6:57:32 PM
The thing I love about plays is you never really know what will happen. In a production a few years ago, a door stuck and no matter what they tried, they couldn't budge it...they HAD to get inside and to their credit, they did: through the window! They ad libbed enough to make it work and after intermission, the door finally worked and that fact was commented on by one of the cast.
10612. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 8:33:15 PM
cartman 603--
I disagree completely. TV viewing has never been so large-scale in trends, as to react to several decades of "canned" product. It moves more in two- to three-season ranges -- a couple years of jiggle shows here, a couple years of doctor shows there.
As stated, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean that viewers have actively rebelled, either collectively or individually, against the shift from live to canned TV per se. If the canned product was uniformly excellent, I don't think the reality shows would be nearly as successful. But, I think a natural process has occurred. Read on...
Besides, reacting to "packaging" by watching more "packaging" is rather odd, to say the least. You're pre-supposing a level of spontaneity that really isn't there -- it's just reputed to be.
I think you're misinterpreting the phenomenon here. The Survivor-type shows are completely "managed" in that we see only what the producers would have us see. But they will show us -- they want to show us -- the unpredictable slices of life within the controlled environment. And I think that's what the viewers tune in for. In a nutshell, from the viewers' perspective, they represent less packaging compared to, say, sitcoms. Best of all, something bad or socially unacceptable can happen (the Accident on I-35 Syndrome). That's why outtakes are so popular.
10613. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 8:48:30 PM
cart---
Not to mention unprofessional. See, that's what I don't like about it -- there's no actual creative element.
Again, I think you're focussing too strongly on the production side. From the viewer's perspective, there's more creativity -- in the sense that there's more opportunity for the Accident on I-35 to be really messy. Sports telecasts are popular because we don't know what's gonna happen. Millionaire is popular for the same reason. Your average sitcom? We know what's gonna happen.
Before you cite counter-examples, I'm not saying this is the only reason. I just think it strikes a major chord in Joe Sixpack.
10614. JudithAtHome - 7/13/2000 9:07:05 PM
....and there's no canned laughter to tell us when it's funny.
10615. CalGal - 7/13/2000 9:28:08 PM
Hey, I just read that Dianne Wiest is the new DA on L&O. Good pick!
10616. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 9:42:32 PM
cartman--
Same here with the "reality TV" deal; it's like pro wrestling -- everyone knows it's fake, but the fun is in pretending it's real, apparently.
It's interesting that you brought up this comparison. Because, while the appeal of the reality shows makes sense to me, pro wrestling is something that I just don't get. To me, pro wrestling does not compare (conceptually) at all. As you point out, the audience knows it's all fake and scripted. But I think the audience of Survivor understands that while the show is managed, that is, selected portions are shown, it's not scripted. I think that makes all the difference.
On a tangent, have you ever looked very closely at the audience at a pro wrestling show? There are about twelve teenagers going nuts down front while the other 500 people are just sitting there disinterestedly munching their popcorn. What's up with that?
10617. AytchMan - 7/13/2000 10:20:16 PM
cartman--
It's when it reaches "pop culture event" proportions that I get a little antsy, 'cause then it becomes time to lower expectations even more for the next trend.
This, of course, is a separate issue and I completely agree with you. As the man said, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American people". I see no solution short of implants.
10618. AceofSpades - 7/13/2000 10:41:37 PM
Buzz on the X-Men:
X-crement.
10619. AceofSpades - 7/13/2000 10:43:42 PM
What a horrible summer for movies. It showed such promise--Gladiator, Shaft, Patriot, X-Men.
It's scary, but Scary Movie is going to turn out to be the big movie of the summer.
10620. CalGal - 7/13/2000 10:46:50 PM
Really? X-Men sucks? That's awful.
Chicken Run was great.
10621. AceofSpades - 7/13/2000 10:52:43 PM
Cal,
It's what I hear. Then again, I just read the Cranky Critic's review, and he gave it a perfect score.
10622. AceofSpades - 7/13/2000 10:53:20 PM
"Chicken Run," I'm sure, is great. I knew it would be great when I first saw the poster.
But I have no intention of seeing it.
10623. CalGal - 7/13/2000 10:57:23 PM
Too bad. It's not a kid's movie at all. Lots of fun.
10624. AceofSpades - 7/13/2000 11:01:33 PM
I'll probably see it on video.
10625. CalGal - 7/13/2000 11:02:46 PM
Of course, why go see a good movie when there are so many bad movies out there to waste your time on? Makes excellent sense.
10626. AceofSpades - 7/13/2000 11:06:53 PM
Cal,
Well, because it's a frickin' cartoon, you know.
10627. CalGal - 7/13/2000 11:12:21 PM
So what? It's not like it is for kids, or anything. Rule out animated films and you're missing some of the best movies of the past few years.
10628. AceofSpades - 7/13/2000 11:14:01 PM
Cal, I'm quite sure you're right. But, you know, a romantic comedy might be excellent and yet I have no interest.
Ditto Chicken Run. I knew it was going to be an excellent movie based on the title and the ridiculous look of the chickens, but I don't really want to see it. I concede it's a well made movie, but it's not one I have any interest in.
I never saw Schindler's List, you know.
10629. CalGal - 7/13/2000 11:17:01 PM
Well, then there really isn't much point of declaring that it's a horrible summer for movies. It is, of course, but the plaint of someone who rules out whole categories as unsuitable for theater viewing is a bit suspect.
10630. CalGal - 7/13/2000 11:18:19 PM
And in case I sound snarky, I'm not. I just think it's plain goofy that you'd deliberately avoid seeing a good movie to see lousy bad ones that you complain about.
10631. AceofSpades - 7/13/2000 11:21:02 PM
Besides, one minor triumph like "Chicken Run" hardly saves a summer filled with Battlefield Earth, Gladiator, Patriot, Perfect Storm, etc.
10632. CalGal - 7/13/2000 11:23:31 PM
Oh, no argument. I've been bitching about the summer movies since May, it feels like.
But I'm allowed to bitch, because if I hear of a good movie, I don't think, "Yeah, but it's a cartoon so it doesn't count."
10633. EricCartman - 7/14/2000 1:54:30 AM
H-Man:
I hear you. And I've never gotten pro wrestling either. Mainly what I'm talking about is not the mere fact that people watch these things. That's not it at all. It's the "phenomenon" part of it I don't get.
But you're right....when in doubt, refer to Mencken. The guy knew a thing or two about people, didn't he? Still, occasionally you wish something really quality would slip through the cracks and catch on that freakin' hard, no?
Ace:
Go see Chicken Run. Take your woman. Go. Go see it. You'll like it. She'll like it. It's a fun movie.
Look at it this way -- after all the turds you've willingly sat through thus far this summer, what have you got to lose? (I'm actually a bit surprised on X-Men -- I keep hearing pretty good word on it. Is your review of it a regular movie-guy review, or a comic-book guy review?)
10634. JudithAtHome - 7/14/2000 11:01:44 AM
Who was asking me yesterday if I'd seen Oz because I stayed up last night to catch the rerun and all I can say is: WOW! That was more like a season cliff-hanger ender than a season premiere.
I love this show because it is soooo unpredictable. You can never successfully predict what will happen on any given episode. It is riveting drama.
10635. JudithAtHome - 7/14/2000 11:03:08 AM
Okay, I went back and checked: the above post is directed to Eric!
10636. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 12:40:53 PM
judith --
I guess it's just you and me. So, we go for the title of Most High Poobah of Trash TV. Here are the nine remaining contestants:
Jenna -- 22-year old single mom
Kelly -- the river guide who lost the canoe sprint to Gervase
Sean -- the nice-looking neurologist with the nipple ring
Richard -- the very strategic gay corporate trainer
Gervase -- the non-swimming black dude
Rudy -- the cantankerous old ex-SEAL
Susan -- the abrasive truck driver
Colleen -- the pretty little space cadet. No identifiable contribution thus far.
Greg -- the 24-year old blond guy with the air telephone
Pick 3 semi-finalists (for 1 point each) and the ultimate survivor (worth 2 points). I'll post my picks shortly.
10637. JudithAtHome - 7/14/2000 12:51:18 PM
H-Man:
I pick Richard, Susan, and Rudy with Richard to win. I know it's insane but what the hell.
On another note, the show Big Brother just had an interesting development: a story published today says William is a follower and close associate of Khalid Mohammed. No one in the house knows this and I maintain they, with the exception of Cassandra, wouldn't know who Khalid WAS anyhow. This is a very dumb group and I cannot for the life of me understand why the show is tanking so badly...you'd think having a stripper, a beauty queen, an accidental murderer, a one legged man, a lawyer, an all american boy, a ditzy club kid, an adulteress, a sane woman, and a follower of Khalid Mohammed would provide a little interest but I guess not.
10638. glendajean - 7/14/2000 12:51:22 PM
I was crushed that Gretchen was ganged up by Richard's cabal, but could see it coming when they didn't show us any of their votes as they made them. If the others were smart, they eliminated Richard during the next round.
10639. JudithAtHome - 7/14/2000 12:52:09 PM
Oh, and H-Man, I think Marsha will get in on the Survivor pool.
10640. JudithAtHome - 7/14/2000 12:53:09 PM
GJ:
Come over to the dark side....Richard is the only interesting one on the island!
10641. glendajean - 7/14/2000 12:53:41 PM
Who is the accidental murderer, who is the adulteress?
10642. glendajean - 7/14/2000 12:54:10 PM
I like crazy Greg. I liked Gretchen.
10643. glendajean - 7/14/2000 12:55:27 PM
Totally off-subject. I can WNYC at my desk on my computer while I work. Cool.
10644. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 12:56:20 PM
judith--
I think a huge difference in the two shows is the setting. The Survivors are on a beautiful remote tropical island. The BB's are stuck in a cramped, windowless urban IKEA warehouse. I'm surprised no one has succumbed to oxygen deprivation yet.
10645. glendajean - 7/14/2000 12:57:55 PM
You're right. The Big Brother set looks like a minimum security prison or halfway house.
10646. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 12:58:46 PM
glendajean--
2ha. Funny.
10647. JudithAtHome - 7/14/2000 1:01:17 PM
GJ:
The adultress id Karen and the Accidental Murderer is George. Have you watched any of the BB show? It's very dull.
10648. glendajean - 7/14/2000 1:03:07 PM
Frankly, George gets on my nerves. Particularly when he put that wig on. His laugh drives me nuts.
(I've watched bits and pieces)
Is Karen from Indiana? I didn't know that she had cheated on her husband.
10649. JudithAtHome - 7/14/2000 1:08:51 PM
GJ:
According to the guys who stay up all night and watch the webcast while simultaenously posting to the BB thread in TT, she admitted to having an affair last night. Whether it makes it onto the TV show or not is another thing. They leave out so much.
That thread and the webcast are really hysterical...on the webcast, whenever things get a little too sticky, they switch to the chicken pen. The people on the TT thread are really witty. The message board on AOL is mostly teenagers, they say.
I'm wondering when people work or sleep?
10650. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 1:19:39 PM
judith--
I'll pick Susan, Kelly and Jenna as the semi's with Kelly as the winner. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in this pick. I'm just figuring somewhere along the way, they'll wise up and start dumping Richard and his alliance. It had better be soon.
All Moties are invited to play.
10651. rubberducky - 7/14/2000 1:33:01 PM
i'll pick Greg to win - only because he's cute
the other two are Susan & Sean (b/c i looove nipple rings on guys)
did i mention i only saw the 1st eposide?
10652. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 1:46:45 PM
cartman 633--
Still, occasionally you wish something really quality would slip through the cracks and catch on that freakin' hard, no?
Oh, I think it does but not very often. MASH, Hill Street Blues and a few others were certainly at the level of water-cooler conversations over the years. Now it would be Internet conversations.
But I think there are really two main TV audiences. To exaggerate wildly and snobbishly, there's a large, indiscriminate lot who are simply looking for ways to deaden the pain. Then, there's a smaller, brainier set that's very picky-and-choosy in searching for a few good shows.
10653. PsychProf - 7/14/2000 1:47:13 PM
I pick Rudy to win...a long shot, but I think others will see him as an easy foe and vote competition off.
10654. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 1:51:02 PM
psychprof--
A guess for the three semifinalists?
10655. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 2:06:02 PM
The Sweepstakes so far:
judith -- semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win.
psychprof -- no semifinalists yet but Rudy to win.
aytchman --Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win.
10656. PsychProf - 7/14/2000 2:11:34 PM
Richard Kelly Rudy
10657. theDiva - 7/14/2000 2:15:32 PM
I've never seen whatever it is you're talking about, but I'll make picks anyway.
Richard, Sean, and Jenna, with Jenna to win.
10658. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 2:26:08 PM
Diva--
If you win, there's gonna be trouble.
10659. theDiva - 7/14/2000 2:30:37 PM
heh heh heh
What's the prize?
10660. PsychProf - 7/14/2000 2:33:35 PM
A 5 month supply of fresh beer that has to be consumed within 24 hours and by the winner herself/himself.
10661. theDiva - 7/14/2000 2:37:51 PM
aw heck.
10662. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 2:40:05 PM
Diva--
The title of Most High Poobah (or Poobette) of Trash TV plus all bragging rights inherent therero.
10663. theDiva - 7/14/2000 2:41:56 PM
Gee.
10664. EricCartman - 7/14/2000 4:48:31 PM
H-Man Message # 10652:
Yeah, I agree. Which is why I also agree with Indy's earlier assertion about modern society being more Huxleyan than Orwellian. (In fact, I've said the exact same thing a few times before.)
Anyway, even though I donb't really know who's who all that well, I'll get in on yer little pool --Rudy, Susan, and Sean, with Rudy to win.
PsychProf:
Do I get to pick the brand of beer if I win?
10665. AytchMan - 7/14/2000 4:57:28 PM
The New and Improved Sweepstakes Tally:
judith -- semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win.
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win.
aytchman -- Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win.
diva --Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win.
And, remember, no wagering where prohibited by law.
10666. CalGal - 7/14/2000 6:26:50 PM
Good idea, this.
Ebert picks Richard Roeper
Bummer. I was pulling for Jeff Greenfield.
10667. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 9:32:09 PM
Hmmph. Stay away for a measly few months, and they take your moniker away. Sheesh
10668. CalGal - 7/15/2000 9:40:48 PM
Did you forget your password? Indy is out of pocket for a couplet weeks, but I'm sure he can fix it when he gets back. I don't believe we've been deleting ids.
How you?
10669. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 9:41:37 PM
After the months of waiting and reading all the online scoops about X-Men (I was a big fan of the comic in the 60’s), I sat in the theater Friday morning with a sense of dread. (Ya, I saw the first 11am show.) Was the last year of anticipation spent in vain? Was this to be another Marvel Movie Mutated to Mindless Muck? As the opening screen started with the voice-over by Patrick Stewart describing mutations and evolution... and the excellent graphics... the dread started to dissipate. A sense of hope emerged, followed by excitement. Ok, this didn't suck, yet. I watched the opening holocaust scenes, which were just as good as any of Spielberg’s. Ok, perhaps a tad overly dramatic, but looking very good on screen. First class, in fact. Then the cut to Marie as a dreamy kid with her first painful kiss. Excellent! I started getting goose bumps... could this really be it?!?! Could Bryan actually have gotten it right?
By the time Logan is showing his claws, I was totally gone. Tranced. I couldn't stop grinning! This was IT!! They DID it!!! They finally got it right! I was hooked – line and sinker. I don’t think I quit grinning until long after I left the theater. Jackman nailed it. Anne WAS Rogue. Marsden and Framke got it right on the nose.
10670. CalGal - 7/15/2000 9:41:51 PM
Aytch,
What are all the names again?
10671. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 9:42:08 PM
*cont.*
Oh sure, the movie wasn’t perfect. Not enough banter amongst the team, for one thing, and the X-Team were pretty slow on the uptake during the fights. I guess they’ve really missed having a Danger Room. (For the X-Fans.) No chemistry between Scott and Jean – I don’t think they said two words to each other. But that’s because there wasn’t time. What was there, what Bryan focused on, was almost exactly right. What was missing… was missing. Hell, it was only 96 minutes; there wasn’t time for everything! But I’m happy. No… I’m totally sated. I’m still grinning as I think about it. I think I’ll go and see it again tomorrow. YESSS!!!!!! As the Cranky Critic said, the best comic-to-movie yet.
Make Mine Marvel!!!
10672. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 9:44:38 PM
Hey, Cal. I had to get that review off my chest.
I'm doing good. How you?
10673. CalGal - 7/15/2000 9:45:11 PM
Adam,
The reviews have been mixed, but I hear that it takes far too long to introduce everyone. Stewart is supposed to be perfectly cast, and McKellan isn't far behind, and their scenes are fun. Yes/no?
10674. CalGal - 7/15/2000 9:47:25 PM
Just left Disneyworld and am in Vero Beach on my way down to a decadent week in Miami. Then I'm going to hang out in the Keys or Naples, I haven't decided.
And as soon as I quit falling asleep whenever I sit down, I'm calling Lady Chaos up so we can get together next week.
10675. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 9:51:11 PM
Ahh, forget the "mixed" reviews. The critics who didn't like it, mostly didn't like either 1) the populist artform, or 2) any other movie in the last 25 years.
I think Bryan did an excellent job introducing the main players. He used the newcomer Wolverine (Jackman) as the vehicle to introduce the premise and cast, and my wife (no comic fan) had absolutely no trouble following everything.
My only gripe is that the producers supposedly cut 30 minutes of dialogue because they wanted it to be an "action" movie. I don't doubt that the director's cut DVD will be much better, but don't let that stop you from enjoying a really great popcorn movie. Superman, Batman... move over.
10676. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 9:52:56 PM
Oh - you're leaving Orlando!? Too bad - I'm flying down there Monday for a couple of days of business. Would have been nice to meet you in person --- or even take you to see the movie. Any chance of you sticking around?
10677. CalGal - 7/15/2000 9:53:48 PM
No, even the negative reviews were reasonably kind. I haven't read a pan yet, but then Ace hasn't chimed in.
I have no real interest in seeing it, but Spawn might want to check it out and I'll go along for fun.
10678. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 9:55:55 PM
About Stewart/McKellan - yes, they were very good. But Hugh and Anne stole the show standing up.
10679. CalGal - 7/15/2000 10:02:39 PM
Oh, that's too bad. A total miss. No, I've got the condo booked in Miami through my timeshare, and it can't be changed. I won't be back in Orlando until next Monday (the 24th) and then only for a few hours while I wait for my flight.
I'll be travelling a bit more in the near future--got a gig in Dayton Ohio, of all places.
10680. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 10:04:09 PM
Oh well. Let me know next time you're in the Washington/Baltimore area.
Gotta run.
(And... go see X-Men. You won't be sorry.)
10681. Cellar Door - 7/15/2000 10:53:33 PM
I had a feeling it was going to be good when I ran into Bryan at the Saturn awards a few weeks ago and he didn't look crazed.
10682. AdamSeleneX - 7/15/2000 11:31:10 PM
Hey, Cellar.
I heard that Bryan WAS crazed during much of the shooting - that was a hell-of-a schedule he had to deliver under. Not to mention half the budget that he should have had. I think that with another 6 months and $25 million, he could have put Star Wars to shame. As it was, he still did a terrific job. And you can tell him I said so. As one movie pundit said, some of us teenagers have been waiting 35 years for this movie to be done right --- and he did it. I hope he gets the sequel.
I think this movie will completely transform the way comics are transferred to film. I can't wait to see what they do with Spider-man now. (Due out next year.) Finally, our generation's mythology is getting it's due.
10683. angel-five - 7/16/2000 5:00:13 AM
X-men wasn't that good, Adam.
I'm not upset I saw it, but was left wanting. Only two characters were really developed to any extent and the climax was lacking.
The special effects were good and the story true to Marvel form. But it wasn't even really that much of an action movie to warrant chopping out half an hour of the sort of dialogue that might have brought the other characters to life.
IT certainly must be said that it was the best mainstream-comic-to-film conversion that's been done in a long time, but that's not really much of a kudo on its own.
I guess the bottom line is this -- hardcore fans will find both things to love and things to dislike and a number of in-jokes, and everyone else will find an average movie with a few nice quirks, some nice fights but by and large a lot of stuff that feels pretty empty.
You are right, though -- Rogue and Wolverine eclipsed the two actors you'd think would shine the brightest.
10684. Jack Vincennes - 7/16/2000 10:53:49 AM
The Perfect Storm (SPOILERS)
"Twister" - but only marginally better acted.
The first 30 or so minutes is devoted to character development, so we can have an investment in our crew of six fishermen who will weather the storm. There is the romantic swordboat captain on a bad streak (George Clooney); the young turk in love (Mark Wahlberg); the divorced father of one fighting to maintain a relationship with his son vis-a-vis "the sea" (John C. Reilly); the poor white trash outcast (William Fichtner); the old salt who just met love in the form of a lonely, overweight woman at the bar (some grizzled person); and the superstitious minority guy (some Creole person). And Fichtner and Reilly don't get along for reasons that make little sense, except that one must thereafter save the life of the other, which is exactly what happens.
We also meet the women who love the men who bring us fish filets: a hard-bitten divorcee (Diane Lane) who curses the day a sail was set; a hard-bitten tavern owner and mother of two of our ill-fated crew; the competing hard-bitten captain who wants to transfer Clooney's heart from the sea to her stern (Mary Elizabeth Mastraontonio); and the hard-bitten overweight woman with two kids who waits for the grizzled guy, the ex-wife of Reilly, and some floozie who shacks up with the superstitious Creole guy.
To a person, the character development is hackneyed and paper-thin. Hollywood goes to Gloucestor and gets an accent - and that's all. If you juxtapose the developments of Roy Scheider, Richard Dreyfuss and Robert Shaw in "Jaws" prior to their going out in the water, "The Perfect Storm" becomes even more painful. If you've seen that, than find "Captain's Courageous."
10685. Jack Vincennes - 7/16/2000 10:53:59 AM
As for the storm, it is technologically impressive, and it makes the film viewable. It is also assisted by a gripping subplot involving a Coast Guard air/sea rescue (the insights into the pilots of the rescue helicopter are better communicated through a few lines during stress than all of the preceding soliloquies of the main charcaters). But even during the technical wizardry, we are treated to two godawful bids for supporting actress nominations by Lane and Mastroantonio . . . big, gloppy, weepy, leaden and ultimately, unconvincing speeches.
And, inexcusably, the film even has an old sea captain making salty pronouncements at the bar.
"Ayyy matie! Let me tell you about the storm on '62."
"Some other time, pops. Aren't you due for an Arthur Treacher's spot?"
The entire schmaltz-fest is coated in a gooey James Horner score. But at end, rather than dab a tear from your eye, you are more inclined to go out for seafood and question the heroics of six men who risked life and limb (theirs and those of rescuers) so they could make a buck (you see, they risk "The Perfect Storm" because the ice machine on their boat broke, and if they wait the storm out, the fish will rot-I'm not making this up).
And they don't wear life preservers.
Final note: the film is about swordfisherman, but they assure us that no animals were harmed during its filming, which means most of the picture's budget was expended on wiggly, rubber fish.
10686. CalGal - 7/16/2000 11:02:31 AM
No, most of the budget was expended on CGI. Wiggly rubber fish you can get at Walmart's.
And far be it from me to speak for the worker, but that catch apparently represented quite a bit of money to them. You make it sound a tad too whimsical.
10687. Cellar Door - 7/16/2000 11:16:55 AM
"I heard that Bryan WAS crazed during much of the shooting - that was a hell-of-a schedule he had to deliver under."
Well that's always the case. And on top of that there are all sorts of compromises that come about through the final edite. Fox's insistence on 95 minutes was important for repeat showings in an era when 3 hour plus movies have become so common. And so unnecessary.
Dollars to doghnuts some of the scenes cut from this one end up being used in the sequel.
10688. Cellar Door - 7/16/2000 11:21:04 AM
What impresses me about "X-Men" is not its sophistication, but rather how primitive it is. Everything in it goes right back to Feuillade. Stewart vs. McKellan are Juve vs. Fantomas. And Mystique is Musidora in "Les Vampires." I can show you sequences of "Tih Minh" that are right out of "X-Men" despite the fact that the former was made in 1918 and features no special effects whatsoever.
10689. AytchMan - 7/16/2000 6:01:36 PM
cal --
The remaining Survivors:
Jenna -- 22-year old single mom
Kelly -- the river guide who lost the canoe sprint to Gervase
Sean -- the nice-looking neurologist with the nipple ring
Richard -- the very strategic gay corporate trainer
Gervase --the non-swimming black dude
Rudy -- the cantankerous old ex-SEAL
Susan -- the abrasive truck driver
Colleen -- the pretty little space cadet. No identifiable contribution thus far.
Greg -- the 24-year old blond guy with the air telephone
Pick 3 semi-finalists (for 1 point each) and the ultimate survivor (worth 2 points).
10690. CalGal - 7/16/2000 6:04:47 PM
Is Kelly male or female?
10691. AytchMan - 7/16/2000 6:43:54 PM
Kelly's heritage is Female-American.
10692. JudithAtHome - 7/16/2000 8:13:36 PM
And she has a cool tattoo on her lower back!
10693. AceofSpades - 7/16/2000 11:57:26 PM
X-Men:
-- The film gives most characters-- except Wolverine--very little to do. Cyclops in particular is left without a single real bit of heroism to perform.
However, Hugh Jackman is a very worthy Wolverine. A great Wolverine, really. If one character is going to shine at the expense of the others, I'd pick Wolverine. I just wish they'd added ten more minutes to give a little more time to Jean Grey and Cyclops.
-- The plotting is very sloppy and slapdash. The main plot-- involving the "Mutant Registration Act," presumably right-wing anti-mutant Senators, etc. -- is laughable. Sure, it's from the comic books. But not every dopey plot from the Comics is fit for mass consumption.
-- However, the film ultimately works. The characters, god bless 'em, are fun to be with and interesting. While Singer doesn't really deliver much on action, or plot, he definitely gets the soap-opera Mutant-Melrose-Place aspect of the comic. It's sort of fun, in a guilty way, to be drawn in to a who-likes-who-and-who-might-cheat-on-who story with mutants.
10694. AceofSpades - 7/17/2000 12:03:24 AM
Other notes:
Halle Berry doesn't work as Storm. Storm has a regal bearing and lordly diction, whereas Berry is just a cute cafe au lait piece of ass. Then again, Storm is lame anyway, so who cares?
Anna Pacquin doesn't really work as Rogue, either. Rogue has a thick Southun' accent, ya know. Pacquin sounds like she's from Westchester. She's also way too young...
...as is Iceman, who has a minor part, and is about fifteen years old. Ten years younger than Cyclops? I always figured them as approximate contemporaries.
Cyclops is good. He doesn't get to do much, yes. But, somehow, by short-shrifting him on screen time, he becomes more interesting, sort of mysterious. Though, come to think of it, perhaps it should be Cyclops with ample screentime and Wolverine with less, but preserving Wolverine's mystery. As it is, shucks, Wolverine is the *least* mysterious X-man in the film.
Famke Jansen is cute. She's good as Jean Grey.
Stewart and McKellan are fine as Professor X and Magneto but, to tell you the truth, I don't know what everyone's praising them so much for. Patrick Stewart played a *perfect* Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan played a *perfect* Ian McKellan. So what?
10695. AceofSpades - 7/17/2000 12:04:29 AM
Four stars out of five on our goofy five-star scale. Three stars of four on a conventional four-star scale.
10696. AceofSpades - 7/17/2000 12:08:39 AM
Oh yeah:
As Ebert points out, none of that hyper-editing or fisheye lens bullshit. Nicely lensed and edited.
Singer has enough confidence to let human scenes linger on at a nice pace. Since we like the characters, it's nice to hear them talk to each other. Rather than wisecrack at each other, rapid-fire, between machine-gun bursts.
10697. AceofSpades - 7/17/2000 12:56:27 AM
"Well that's always the case. And on top of that there are all sorts of compromises that come about through the final edite. Fox's insistence on 95 minutes was important for repeat showings in an era when 3 hour plus movies have become so common. And so unnecessary."
This is moronic. Two hours is fine for a movie. Two hours ten minutes is pefectly acceptable.
10698. CalGal - 7/17/2000 1:15:33 AM
Aytch,
Okay--Kelly, Greg, and Sean. I'll go with Greg for the final. I am using only your descriptions, so you bear an awesome amount of responsibility for my destiny.
10699. Cellar Door - 7/17/2000 11:35:35 AM
"Two hours is fine for a movie. Two hours ten minutes is pefectly acceptable."
Hell, three hours is acceptable if you're Jacques Rivette or Luchino Visconti. But not if you're Martin Brest or Kevin Costner.
10700. AytchMan - 7/17/2000 12:24:28 PM
cg--
Excellent. I accept full responsibility.
The Latest and Perhaps Final Update:
judith -- semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win.
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win.
aytchman --Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win.
diva -- Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win.
calgal -- Kelly, Greg and Sean with Greg to win.
And, remember, the winner bears sole responsibility for all applicable taxes.
10701. rubberducky - 7/17/2000 12:41:28 PM
Also saw X-Men Friday. Great stuff. There was the silly comic booky parts, but i woulda been pissed if they didn't include some of it. Good story line, good (if too brief) character interaction, great special effects, some very good performances. All in all, just what this lame summer needs - a good, honest-to-god-blockbuster.
Misc:
Storm was a complete waste of time. She threw some lightening. Whoop. Excuse me, but isn't there other forms of "weather"?
Cyclops, Cyclops, where fore aret thou, Cyclops? Thou lookest so spiffy in thy leather - i hardly knew ye. do come back for the sequel wonst thou?
Bryan did exactly what needed to be done, btw. not too much plot to get in the way, not too many action sequences to get in the way of acting. good job.
10702. PsychProf - 7/17/2000 2:42:37 PM
Word has it that CBS has inadvertently leaked the Survivor Winner...
10703. AytchMan - 7/17/2000 2:45:22 PM
psychprof--
Really? Who's word?
10704. PsychProf - 7/17/2000 2:48:23 PM
I don't want to link here...
10705. AytchMan - 7/17/2000 4:23:43 PM
pp--
Are you talking about the website HTML problem? That's been out for several days.
10706. Cellar Door - 7/17/2000 4:39:29 PM
10707. marshame - 7/17/2000 6:22:35 PM
I pick Greg, Gervase and Sean, with Sean to win.
I think the tough guys, Richard, Susan and Rudy, will be voted off because of their conniving. Greg, Gervase and Sean are the "floaters". They contribute the least, save their personalities, and they escape by being ciphers. Gervase will wash out in any kind of physical contest. I think that Sean will beat out Greg in the end because he is smarter. (C'mon, a nuerologist's got to have something on the ball, doesn't he?)
I saw the movie "Sunshine" over the weakend, and it was delightful. Finally, my darling Ralph Finnes is in a movie that is not a bomb. He plays three characters in the family saga of the Sonnenschein's. It is quite picturesque and interesting, starting with the immigration of the grandfather from Hungry in about 1870, taking them through the fall of the Austro-Hungarian empire and into the first world war, the bolshevik revolution and subsequent communist take over, the struggle with Hitler's fascists, world war two, and the communist tank invasion of 1956. Darling Ralph plays three generations of the men in this family, and the story is quite endearing. But it is long, about 3 hours. Has anyone else seen it? It played only at the Dallas artsy threatre, the Landmark.
10708. JudithAtHome - 7/17/2000 7:01:13 PM
I envy you the artsy theatres of Dallas...we have one screen or maybe two, devoted to what they euphemistically refer to as Gourmet Cinema.
10709. Don S. - 7/18/2000 12:37:19 AM
Greg is toast.
10710. rubberducky - 7/18/2000 8:52:17 AM
dammit
10711. rubberducky - 7/18/2000 10:53:24 AM
oh, joy of joys!
The network and creator-executive producer Chris Carter auditioned four somewhat well-known actors Friday for the role of an edgy "blue-collar-type" special agent who will replace Duchovny's conspiracy-loving alter ego Fox Mulder and pair up with Gillian Anderson's Scully to investigate cases of the paranormal.
Carter's quartet includes Bruce Campbell of Evil Dead fame, La Bamba's Lou Diamond Phillips, T2 morphing cyborg villain Robert Patrick and veteran character Hart Bochner (Anywhere but Here), according to the Hollywood Reporter.
Bruce Campbell would be soooooo fab in the role! That would possibliy turn a otherwise sucky season into good television. Jack Of Hearts notwithstanding.
10712. JudithAtHome - 7/18/2000 12:10:25 PM
Hart Bochner? My god, he is older than dirt!
10713. PsychProf - 7/18/2000 1:00:01 PM
FOR SURVIVOR FANS ONLY
click on ramona 
10714. JudithAtHome - 7/18/2000 1:01:49 PM
PP:
This isn't the spoiler story, is it?
10715. PsychProf - 7/18/2000 1:10:08 PM
Judith...noone knows if the report is accurate. The "spoiler' story is given there, in white so you have to highlight to see it.
10716. AytchMan - 7/18/2000 4:05:40 PM
The Latest and Ever-More-Likely Final Survivor Update:
judith --semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win.
rubberducky --Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win.
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win.
aytchman -- Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win.
diva -- Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win.
calgal -- Kelly, Greg and Sean with Greg to win.
marshame -- Greg, Gervase and Sean, with Sean to win
And, remember, this too shall pass.
10717. rubberducky - 7/19/2000 8:41:42 AM
Rented some movies lately, one of which was Stir of Echoes with kevin bacon. it's too bad this movie came out so close to and was (rightfully, imo) overshadowed by Sixth Sense. i liked the movie on its own merits. involving and good performances. a little predictable, but then, most ghost movies are. a good rental, though, of that i am certain.
also rented The Minus Man with Owen Wilson and Janeane Garofalo. it was a decent movie. nothing spectacular. the acting was decent, plot was decent, everything was just decent. kinda average really. if you really liked Clay Pigeons then you might wanna check it out, otherwise you'll probably be bored.
10718. Cellar Door - 7/19/2000 10:35:50 AM
Did anyone catch Betty Hutton on TCM last night? It was Beyond Amazing!
10719. Indiana Jones - 7/19/2000 9:07:19 PM
Will this thread survive "Survivor"?
On Jack's recommendation, saw "The Croupier." Was interesting and original and had at least two twists that caught me flat-footed. Good performances, well worth the price of admission.
I can also see why Jack especially liked it.
Saw "The Blair Witch" on cable. Not as bad as "The Haunting," but only because of low budget, inferior cast (i.e., accomplished the same banality, but with less consumption of resources).
Why in the hell did this movie receive such attention? I would rather visit someone in the hospital as sit through this waste of time again.
If you watch it on videotape, you're guaranteed to discover why VCRs have a fast-forward button.
10720. CalGal - 7/19/2000 9:14:24 PM
But Indy! You didn't answer the really important question:
Was it a witch, a psycho killer, or a major mindfuck?
10721. Uzmakk - 7/19/2000 9:32:05 PM
A week ago there was a piece in my paper about a French film being shown in theatres in defiance of French censors. Did yall discuss that?. Graphic sex and violence. Artistic expression.
10722. Don S. - 7/19/2000 11:01:06 PM
Re: "Survivor": I'd like to remind everyone of my Message # 10709.
10723. AytchMan - 7/20/2000 12:13:08 AM
Apropos of nuthin'--
The Survivor polling lamp is now offically out. Sorry, you didn't get in, Don [tweak, we're even].
Anyway, sayonara to Greg. Please don't check the math but here are the estimated final point totals based on a nuclear physics text I just threw away:
judith --semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win -- 1.87.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win -- 0.75 (ouch).
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win -- 1.87.
aytchman -- Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win -- 1.87.
diva -- Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win -- 1.87.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win -- 1.87.
calgal -- Kelly, Greg and Sean with Greg to win -- 0.75 (oof).
marshame -- Greg, Gervase and Sean, with Sean to win -- 1.50.
Future mathematical tours-de-force will appear as the mood strikes.
10724. Cellar Door - 7/20/2000 9:20:06 AM
I've been following the story about that movie, Uz. It's by Catherine Breillat whose"Romance" caused a stor last year. The new film has been called by some of the U.S. press, "Rape Me!" but the more accurate translation would be "Fuck Me!"
Meanwhile on a different note ---
"But I'm a Cheerleader"
10725. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2000 9:30:41 AM
IJ:
Yes, this thread will survive us having a little fun with trash TV...it's summer, after all. The thread has survived deep and probing discussions of any number of mind numbing movies, down to copious quotes of dialogue and penetrating deconstruction of plot theory...I think it can handle a few pedestrian comments about a popular but worthless hour of TV a week.
10726. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2000 10:00:46 AM
So, who thinks The Sopranos will sweep the Emmys? The show, Gandolfini, and Falco all got nominated.
10727. glendajean - 7/20/2000 10:08:01 AM
The site "survivorsucks.com" has correctly predicted the one getting the axe on Survivor for the past 5 weeks.
As Prof mentioned yesterday, they think they have a major clue about who wins, too.
10728. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2000 10:32:13 AM
GJ:
Yes, I know. I avoid that and all the spoilers floating around. I don't want to know til the end. The Survivor thread in TT has a rather militant anti-spoiler camp and they even made the pro-spoiler people start a seperate "spoiler" thread.
I always save the end of a book for the last so I'm not keen on knowing who wins til it's fait accompli. Or "fate" accompli!
I know a lady who always reads the last few pages of a book to see if she wants to "bother reading the whole thing"...is that nuts or what?
10729. CalGal - 7/20/2000 11:09:28 AM
Wow, surprising Emmy noms. Definitely not as much of the same old, same old.
Will and Grace entered with a bang. The West Wing tied with The Sopranos for the most noms. Jennifer Aniston got her first nod in the Supporting Actress category--and Jerry Orbach, who I would have been surprised but happy to see in the Supporting Actor category, made the big leagues the first time out--he and Sam both got lead Actor nominations.
NYPD Blue was damn near shut out--only Old Reliable himself made it in. I'm not too surprised; the show was extremely weak this year. And ER only got one acting nomination that I saw, for Julianna Margulies--the sentiment vote.
10730. CalGal - 7/20/2000 11:33:38 AM
I hadn't seen last night's L&O last night. I had it figured out early, but it was nicely executed, I thought. (It's the one where the woman is obsessed with proving that her sister's boyfriend had murdered her.)
10731. PsychProf - 7/20/2000 1:17:37 PM
Greg is toast.
10732. Don S. - 7/20/2000 1:19:09 PM
Nice prediction, there, PP. Wanna hear my next one?
Sean.
10733. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2000 1:19:38 PM
PP....and he reacted as though he were toast-ed.
10734. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2000 1:24:14 PM
But Sean is entrenched in the Sesame Street theory...he's only up to "Greg". This guy is so not my idea of a doctor. Doctor Demento, maybe.
10735. PsychProf - 7/20/2000 1:44:30 PM
Peter principle will prevail. The winner will be a survivor but not a valuable one. This is why I chose Rudy. Richard will die by his own sword...for some reason this cracks me up Don.
10736. PsychProf - 7/20/2000 3:34:32 PM
Survivor II should be interesting as new participants are now being selected... 
10737. PsychProf - 7/20/2000 4:02:12 PM
RICHARD THE LYING HEART
click on photo 
10738. rubberducky - 7/20/2000 5:14:53 PM
at least the lard bucket put some clothes on for that shot
sheesh
10739. Cellar Door - 7/20/2000 5:16:08 PM
No Chubby-chaser I see, ducks.
10740. rubberducky - 7/20/2000 5:18:14 PM
ugh
no way
i like my boys in shape and able to keep up!
10741. Cellar Door - 7/20/2000 5:19:56 PM
And get up!
10742. rubberducky - 7/20/2000 5:20:55 PM
haha, of course
but, well, the ones i date are at the age where that ain't a problem, cellar dear
10743. Uzmakk - 7/20/2000 6:35:59 PM
10724 Cellar:
Read your review of Cheerleader. I think it is far more correct to say that your review is ideological rather than gender roles. As a matter of fact it was difficult for me to read being so full of ideological assumptions.
10744. CalGal - 7/20/2000 8:56:36 PM
Saw Disney's The Kid this afternoon. It's cute, although the reviews have been kinder than I would have thought. Utterly predictable, but nicely executed. Lovely small performances by Tomlin, Jean Smart (who has had quite a few of these lately), and Dana Ivey. Willis is fine, the kid has nice eyes, and I could have done without the love interest.
10745. Cellar Door - 7/20/2000 9:15:30 PM
Uz, I don't know how to break this to you, but this ENTIRE CULTURE IS FILLED WITH IDEOLOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS.
10746. rubberducky - 7/20/2000 9:19:56 PM
Cellar:
i assume you've seen the latest Advocate with an awesome pic of Danny from Real World on the cover? the interior pics were hot enough to melt the frost off of a polar bear's balls.
anyhow, it was a complete fluff piece (natch) and not very long. now that the show's over (taping wise) any Hollywood word about what, if anything, he'll be doing afterwards?
10747. Cellar Door - 7/20/2000 9:21:45 PM
Nothing so far. He and Paul are still together, so I would imagine he has his hands full on that score.
I'll get you the link to his website. I found it in Datalounge.
10748. Cellar Door - 7/20/2000 9:40:12 PM
Here's the link to Danny's website.
10749. Jenerator - 7/20/2000 10:05:43 PM
Mmmmmmm, this was appetizing (and on your link):
The Ins and Outs of Gay Sex
Sexual healing Infections, cold sores, lesions, diminished ejaculate—whose sex life hasn’t been hampered at one time or another by these very human symptoms? Let advocate.com columnist Stephen Goldstone, MD, help you find your way back to optimal sexual health.
10750. Uzmakk - 7/20/2000 10:20:03 PM
I don't know how to break this to you cellar, but saying "ENTIRE CULTURE IS FILLED WITH IDEOLOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS." is about as useful as saying everything is everything.
10751. DaveM - 7/20/2000 10:21:52 PM
Cellar -
It is funny when people view "ideological" as an insult.
10752. Uzmakk - 7/20/2000 10:22:42 PM
There is a real world. If only it would conform to the ideas in Cellar's head.
10753. Uzmakk - 7/20/2000 10:25:19 PM
or, Dave M's.
10754. DaveM - 7/20/2000 10:30:29 PM
No one denies that there is a real world. Just that we can order it cognitively in a neutral manner.
10755. Don S. - 7/20/2000 11:26:40 PM
(It is still so bizarre to me how luckyducky7 has gone from raving homophobe to screaming Advocate-toting homo in just a few scant years...)
10756. rubberducky - 7/21/2000 8:34:37 AM
thanks cellar. great stuff!
and thanks to you too donny ... er, i guess. whatever. i stopped caring.
10757. JudithAtHome - 7/21/2000 10:07:03 AM
They kicked the most interesting person off the BigBrother fiasco last night. MegaWill....RIP.
10758. marshame - 7/21/2000 10:59:54 AM
Re Survivor
I guess there's no possiblility of changing my vote, Atychman?
I was quite frustrated by this week's show. Clearly there is a voting block/conspiracy, which I assumed the remaining other-tribe members would figure out. But no. This bunch is clueless, and in someways deserves to be voted off. The fact that Sean the neurologist has decided to vote people off in alphabetical order has me hoping and praying I will never need to see a neurologist!
The only way the dummies can survive the voting block is to form their own and win the immunity prize. At least the vote would be 4 to 4. And we do not know how a tie would be broken. But if they persist in being dumb and/or refusing to participate in a voting coalition (as Sean the alphabetical one has said he refuses to do) then they are doomed. And that would leave Richard, Susan, Rudy and Kelly. How those four would proceed to devour their own remains to be seen. But one thing is for sure: Susan and Kelly outright lied when asked if there was a voting block. To me, that's enough for them to get nixed by the final vote. And Richard is so subtley devious that I pick him as first runner up. So Rudy, old crusty Rudy, winds up the winner by default.
10759. theDiva - 7/21/2000 12:08:53 PM
REMINDER
Cellar Door's appearance on E!TV Sunday night, July 23, 8 pm. Check local listings.
10760. JudithAtHome - 7/21/2000 12:18:13 PM
marsha:
Evidently Kelly is used to skirting the truth; a story today broke that she is wanted on a warrant in N.Carolina for credit card fraud and theft. Happened 5 years ago and she is supposed to have helped her boyfriend, who is listed as the instigator. Their crime? Using a stolen credit card to ru up $60 at an Olive Garden.
A true crime, indeed....their food is criminal.
10761. marshame - 7/21/2000 12:24:27 PM
Susan bold-facedly said no when asked if there was a voting block. Kelly tilted her head, looked at the questioning host, and kind of murmured. So she is a far less polished liar than Susan. Richard, had it been asked of him, would be far too smart to answer the question at all. Rudy would have probably answered directly or with another question.
Re Kelly stiffing the Olive Garden: you know that when the survivors' dirty little life details start making the news that we are in a summer slump. I caught the tail end of William Mega being interviewed last night where they point-blank asked him if he is a member of/subscribes to the teachings of the New Black Panthers. He fessed up that he has not been a member for the past four months. Probably 4 months overdue in paying his dues, is all.
10762. JudithAtHome - 7/21/2000 12:29:21 PM
Richard has already been asked by that jerk host if there was an alliance and he blandly played the host for all he was worth. It was masterful...this is a game. Strategy requires deceit at times. In poker, people are praised for the misdirection of a "poker face". I don't see these people as evil because they aren't truthful, they are just using their poker faces.
10763. marshame - 7/21/2000 12:35:13 PM
I would not be good at this game. 'Course the first live beetle larvae would have done me in, anyway.
But I certainly enjoy watching!
10764. JudithAtHome - 7/21/2000 12:53:05 PM
The first day without a shower would've been enough for me. I'd have never lasted long enough for the beetle paté.
10765. rubberducky - 7/21/2000 12:56:25 PM
well, just hearing about not showering and eating bugs would have kept me off that island in the first place. i mean, there's no way in hell i woulda lasted to the end, so why even bother? that's the question i asked myself when (Romona?) the older lady was voted off in the first show. she's way too old and has no endurance. what was she thinking??
10766. JudithAtHome - 7/21/2000 1:02:50 PM
Sonja....and she was thinking, "I survived having cancer and I feel good and look good for my age and this might be an interesting challenge."
Which is so far from my way of thinking which would be "I survived the sales at Macys and I look good and feel good for my age and I intend to keep it that way by not going out into the sun without proper sunscreen and by pampering myself at the day spa once a week."
10767. rubberducky - 7/21/2000 2:04:22 PM
crap.
Patrick, who will make his debut at the start of next season and appear in all 20 episodes, is being brought in to ultimately replace alien-obsessed G-Man David Duchovny, whose Fox Mulder character will be phased out following the actor's heated legal battle with Fox over syndication money.
10768. JudithAtHome - 7/21/2000 2:18:59 PM
So that's what happened to the guy Tony Soprano chased outta town!
10769. EricCartman - 7/23/2000 9:55:39 PM
Cellar:
Let me be the first to say, you were fabulous on the E! "Gay Hollywood" special! They shoulda bumped that Bruce guy (who looks suspiciously like "Animal" from the Muppet Show), and given you his time.
I was wondering -- Leeza Gibbons is not exactly Joan Rivers, so is there a reason she has to wear enough spackle to texture a ceiling? It created a rather uncomfortable "Tammy Faye" vibe for me.
10770. Cellar Door - 7/24/2000 12:41:16 AM
Thanks, Eric.
Make-up is a way of life out here in Tinseltown. Leeza is scarcely alone in the "Hand me that spatula, I need to do a touch up" -style.
10771. EricCartman - 7/24/2000 1:09:17 AM
Well, I understand that, but I figured that Leeza was a decent-looking enough broad to at least be able to keep her face and neck roughly the same color.
Anyway, lots of fun to see you on the tube. Seems like we're gradually building up a small pool of TV folk.
10772. Webfeet - 7/24/2000 8:21:08 AM
Anyone interested in a good existential thriller starring Gerard Depardieu and Roman Polanksi should see "Une Pure Formalite" directed by Giusepe Torntoro (Cinema Paradiso). A writer (Depardieu) is arrested while running through the woods in the rain on the night of a murder and is brought to the station house to be interrogated by the chief inspector. (Polanski). The story unfolds in fragments until the tension between the inspector and the writer builds to a startling climax and the truth is revealed. OUtstanding performances by all. And, as a bonus, Depardieu sings! Who knew this burly creature had such a romantic, tender soul? For me the real mystery has been revealed: I now know why Carole Bouquet, one of the most beautiful women in the world, is his girlfriend.
10773. rubberducky - 7/24/2000 9:02:53 AM
shit
i missed it Cellar. any ideas when it'll repeat?
10774. Cellar Door - 7/24/2000 9:43:27 AM
I'm going to find out.
10775. rubberducky - 7/24/2000 9:44:23 AM
tanks
10776. Cellar Door - 7/24/2000 10:23:11 AM
It's on again today at 11 a.m. PT,and tonight at 5 P.M. PT!
10777. rubberducky - 7/24/2000 10:30:25 AM
cool - i can catch the 5 show if i leave work a few minutes early.
thanks cellar!
10778. Jack Vincennes - 7/24/2000 10:53:06 AM
I saw Roman Polanski's "The Ninth Gate." It is literate, well-acted (Johnny Depp is deserves note as a soulless rare book dealer) and ultimately, pointless. It is a devil movie with no devil. The payoff is nonexistent. Avoid.
I also saw the first 20 minutes of "The Whole Nine Yards." Matthew Perry has been chowing down on the Hostess snack cakes, so now, his bug-eyed "Who me?" schtick lacks timing. There was not a laugh in the first 20 minutes. In fact, the film seemed to be anti-funny, so, like a horse with a broken leg, it was put out of my misery.
10779. glendajean - 7/24/2000 11:01:29 AM
I haven't been to the movies in over a month. I think I want to see "Perfect Storm." I think I want to see "Chicken Run." But neither have enough appeal to get me to a theater.
10780. Jack Vincennes - 7/24/2000 11:06:04 AM
I don't think you want to see "The Perfect Storm."
Clunk-o-rama.
10781. Cellar Door - 7/24/2000 11:20:08 AM
See "Time Regained."
10782. glendajean - 7/24/2000 11:39:34 AM
Celler -- what is "Time Regained" about?
10783. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2000 11:56:12 AM
Probably it's about a time traveling Marel Proust...
10784. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2000 11:56:40 AM
...who is searching for the "c" in his name.
10785. glendajean - 7/24/2000 11:59:04 AM
The "c" was left attached to his corkboard.
10786. Cellar Door - 7/24/2000 12:05:14 PM
"Time Regained" is a film of "Le Temps Retrouve"-- th last volume of Proust's "A La Recherche du Temps Perdu. Directed by Raul Ruiz it has an all-star cast including Catherine Deneuve, John Malkovich, Emmanuelle Beart, Marie-France Pisier, Edith Scob, Pascale Greggory, Vincent Perez, Arielle Dombalse,and Alain Robbe-Grillet. With Patrice Chereau as the voice of Proust.
10787. glendajean - 7/24/2000 12:07:05 PM
Oh, I have heard good things about that movie. Probably hasn't made it out here in the hinterlands.
10788. Cellar Door - 7/24/2000 12:10:20 PM
10789. Don S. - 7/24/2000 12:15:15 PM
"The Perfect Storm" was the only movie that my ESL boyfriend and I could agree on Saturday. The action was pretty good. And I got some minor satisfaction out of [SPOILER ALERT — highlight the following] watching George Clooney drown.
The appearance of the shark delighted my shark-obsessed boyfriend.
10790. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2000 12:22:59 PM
DonS.
Thanks for the previous post...I had no intention of seeing that movie and now I don't have sit through it to know why!
10791. TabouliJones - 7/24/2000 12:27:39 PM
Jack,
I concur with your negative assessment of The Whole Nine Yards. It is definitely a time waster, although I do think that Perry did an alright job with some rather mediocre material. The only interesting part of the movie was the director's welcome, but ultimately laughable, efforts to capture the qualities of Montreal as a city -- (the movie's setting and my "home" off and on for three of the last four years.
10792. Don S. - 7/24/2000 12:28:39 PM
What was it, Judith? The drowning or the shark?
10793. TabouliJones - 7/24/2000 12:31:28 PM
P.S. Jack,
There is, however, one reason to view the movie past the twenty minute point. about halfway through, there is one of the most gratuitous and exquisite T and A scenes in recent film history.
10794. PelleNilsson - 7/24/2000 1:35:36 PM
Jean Béranger director and film writer is dead at 76. M Béranger was world famous, at least in Sweden, for his 1960 book La grand aventure du cinéma suédois.
10795. marshame - 7/24/2000 1:51:09 PM
Cellar, I shall catch you tonight at 7:00PM Central Time.
I saw The Kid yesterday and greatly enjoyed it. Yes it was formulaic, and yes it includes a life-time supply of sly Bruce Willis half-smiles. But the kid is very funny (not over-acted) and it does set the mind to wandering - what would my 8-year-old-self say to me now? As "Rusty" said to Russ, "You're 40 years old, you don't have a family, you don't fly planes and you don't even have a dog? You're a failure!" Contrary to Russ' image of himself as a great success because he had money but no entanglement with other people. What I enjoyed was that Russ thought the reason the Kid had appeared was so that he, Russ, could advise Rusty to avoid the actions/behaviors that made him unhappy as a child, but then he realized that Rusty was there to remind him of what joys and pleasures he had as a child that he had forgotten as an adult. It was really quite charming. I strongly recommend this movie if you've had a rought week. Also, you could even take your mother to see it. As in: no sex, not so much as a kiss.
If you like spotting movie screw-ups, though, watch the plane. Sometimes it's a bi-plane, and sometimes it's not. It seems to change indiscriminately.
10796. Jack Vincennes - 7/24/2000 2:06:07 PM
TJ
Who? Anyone I know?
10797. TabouliJones - 7/24/2000 2:10:52 PM
Jack,
Amanda Peet the wannabe assassin who attaches herself to Bruce Willis) shows off her delightful assets about midway through the movie.
10798. wonkers2 - 7/24/2000 10:56:53 PM
Anybody seen the new Hamlet. I just saw it and recommend it highly. It is set in Manhattan in the year 2000. Denmark is not a company but Denmark Corporation and Hamlet's father was CEO of Denmark Corp instead of king of Denmark. Aside from those minor changes Shakespeare's original lines and characters were left mostly intact. It was an effective interpretation of the play. The acting, photography were excellent. The only actors I recognized were Bill Murray as Polonius, Sam Shepherd as Hamlet's father's ghost and the little guy who specializes in playing redneck criminals as Rosencrantz or Guildenstern. All three were good as were the actors who played Hamlet, his mother, his uncle, et al. All in all, quite a good show. (But not as spectacular as Kurasawa's version of King Lear--"Ran".
10799. wonkers2 - 7/24/2000 10:58:45 PM
erratum: The acting, photography and SCORE were excellent.
10800. rubberducky - 7/25/2000 9:28:17 AM
good job cellar.
thanks again for the update!
10801. Cellar Door - 7/25/2000 9:51:11 AM
You're welcome.
10802. marshame - 7/25/2000 10:35:58 AM
Well Cellar, I plopped down at 7:00PM central to watch your show, and E! was running something else. Very aggravating! But I'll watch the listings for it.
10803. rubberducky - 7/25/2000 10:45:06 AM
er, that's b/c 5 EST is 6 Central .....
10804. marshame - 7/25/2000 11:10:53 AM
I thought it was 5:00 PST, ergo 7:00 CST.
10805. AytchMan - 7/25/2000 9:26:15 PM
Revisiting the much-maligned (and rightly so) Survivor Sweepstakes, here are the current odds after one week. The calculations are based on the patterns visible in the spaghetti recently consumed chez moi ce soir so please accept them without question.
11 to 2 -- judith, psychprof, aytchman, diva, cartman
about 8 to 1 -- marshame
about 16 to 1 --rubberducky, calgal
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
10806. PsychProf - 7/26/2000 3:26:31 PM
JERRY JERRY JERRY
click on springer 
10807. wonkers2 - 7/26/2000 4:08:08 PM
Anybody seen Sunshine? It's playing here and got good reviews in our local paper. But it lasts more than 3 hours and I have a hard time sitting still that long unless the movie is really good.
10808. TabouliJones - 7/26/2000 4:59:54 PM
My ambiguous-other really liked Sunshine, which surprised me because she is generally indifferent to all movies. She is Hungarian, however, so much of her enthusiasm may have been due to sentamentality. She also has the hots for Ralph Fiennes, which most likely fueled her enjoyment as well.
10809. TabouliJones - 7/26/2000 5:01:37 PM
The New Yorker gave it a qualified thumbs up, although I can't recall what the critic said exactly about the movie.
10810. rubberducky - 7/27/2000 8:17:08 AM
went to see Scary Movie last night. i don't understand what the big hoopla was. there were two scenes that i laughed very hard at ... a few more where i openly laughed ... the rest of the scenes i sat there thinking "i've seen this before" ...
this is supposed to be a spoof not a complete ripoff of Scream & ...Last Summer. next time, the Wayans Brothers need to look at some of the older Leslie Neilson movies (from when he was funny, anyone remember that?) when they want to "spoof" a movie the right way.
all in all, wait until this one goes off of the "New Releases" rack at Blockbuster and you have plenty of beer in the fridge.
10811. TabouliJones - 7/27/2000 10:09:40 AM
Ditto, for me, re. Rubberducky's assessment of Scary Movie. It is a complete time waster.
10812. AytchMan - 7/27/2000 2:24:31 PM
Survivor update--
Jenna hits the road.
Two observations: As Colleen the Space Cadet opined in consecutive illogicalities, Richard is very clever and very dumb. It may well be that, through his conniving, Richard has ensured that he will make the final twosome. But then the conniving may also ensure that he cannot win. Out of the mouths of bimbettes...
It may also turn out that Sean is very dumb but very clever. By telegraphing his votes, he may have removed himself from the hit list over the short haul. If he can subsequently win over one or two allies from Richard's alliance, he may have a shot (the jerk).
10813. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2000 2:27:46 PM
Sean is toast next week.
10814. CalGal - 7/27/2000 2:28:33 PM
I forgot who I voted for. Not that it matters, but who was the guy with the nipple ring again?
10815. theDiva - 7/27/2000 2:30:04 PM
I was wondering the very same thing. I can't remember who I voted for.
10816. rubberducky - 7/27/2000 2:32:26 PM
i remember voting for the one with the nipple ring
heh
10817. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2000 2:33:21 PM
Sean is the guy with the nipple ring....he should have had it put through his empy head.
10818. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2000 2:34:03 PM
empTy head...it would kill me if that idiot could spell. :-)
10819. AytchMan - 7/27/2000 2:49:58 PM
With Greg and Jenna gone, here's the latest Survivor projection:
judith -- semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win -- 2.14 points.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win -- 0.86.
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win -- 2.14.
aytchman -- Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win -- 1.70.
diva -- Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win -- 0.86.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win -- 2.14.
calgal -- Kelly, Greg and Sean with Greg to win -- 0.86.
marshame -- Greg, Gervase and Sean, with Sean to win -- 1.70.
As usual, send all corrections and complaints to somebody at Table Talk.
10820. Fraaankster - 7/27/2000 3:08:14 PM
Let's see. I stumbled across a Maude episode the other night and it got me thinking about my all time favorite sitcoms. Let's see, what am I missing ?
1.) Maude ( Sure, the 1970 liberal scripts can definitely date the show, but oh how that Bea Arthur could carry a show. I loved it )
2.) M.A.S.H. ( It would probably be number one on my list if Col.Henry Blake and Trapper John not left the show so soon ... I never did care for Col.Potter, et all... )
3.) Taxi
4.) Cheers
5.) MTM ( As teenagers, we couldn't wait to see next week's show to see who Mary was dating, what Rhoda would wear or what Ted would do or say in the newsroom )
6.) Bob Newhart ( I was in love with Suzanne Pleshette )
7.) All in the Family ( Groundbreaking ? Yes, but I prefered his cousin Maude :-) )
8.) Ned and Stacey ( One of only a couple of sitcoms of the last few years to hold my attention for more than two minutes )
9.) Matt Houston P.I. ( Yes, it was a sitcom!)
What am I missing ? Let's see, I never cared for Jerry Sienfeld, and what was the name of that one that had legs, er, I meant, Jamie Lee Curtis and Richard Lewis in it ?
10821. AytchMan - 7/27/2000 3:24:16 PM
All-time Sitcoms: Going way back, the Honeymooners. Remarkably, there were only about 39 episodes filmed. Also, Sergeant Bilko with Phil Silvers. Both make the top ten.
10822. JudithAtHome - 7/27/2000 3:31:22 PM
Fraaank:
Anything But Love....Jamie Lee Curtis and Richard Lewis sit-com.
10823. Fraaankster - 7/27/2000 3:32:28 PM
AytchMan,
Shoot. I should have pointed out that these were sitcoms that I grew up with. Those two you mentioned, along with I love Lucy would certainly make many top ten lists.
10824. CalGal - 7/27/2000 3:32:44 PM
M*A*S*H didn't age well at all, IMO. I rarely watch the reruns, and the ones that are the best are the more serious ones that didn't deal with "an issue". The Edward Herrman one comes to mind.
With the exception of Cheers, none of your picks would make my list, and I didn't really care for either The Honeymooners or Sgt. Bilko.
I'd go with the Dick van Dyke show and its followup, Mary Tyler Moore in positions 1 and 2. I'm not sure that anything else would be an unqualified selection. Cheers at its funniest was brilliant; Frasier is the same way but even more consistent. I suppose I'd have to put Seinfeld on there somewhere. While I didn't always care for either of Newhart's two best shows, I think any guy that can put together two long-running shows that consistently manage to be damn funny should get a mention.
Friends is underrated--mainly because the quality varies by season. Still, a couple of its seasons really warrant comparison with the best.
My sleeper pick would be WKRP In Cincinnati. Several of its episodes would easily go on a list of the all time funniest in history, and very few of them are weak. One of the best ensemble casts ever put together.
I'm probably forgetting some,but those are the first that come to mind.
10825. Fraaankster - 7/27/2000 3:33:45 PM
Thanks Judith!
It could be a little dry at times, but I liked it anyway.
10826. Fraaankster - 7/27/2000 3:38:05 PM
Slap me! How could I ever forget Dick Van Dyke.Friends can be funny, but it can also be a bit predictable .... I have just never cared for it. Maybe what you said about its inconsistency might have something to do with it ?
Sergeant Bilko gets honorable mention in my book.
10827. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 4:29:24 PM
There's a fairly small town outside Hot Springs called Malvern that has had some interesting people from there for its size. One was the black-headed guy on WKRP (don't recall his name). The VanDykes' mother lives there and BB Thornton lived there (that's where he says he's from, but his roots and the setting for Slingblade is in a much smaller town an hour or two away from Malvern. His mother, btw, was Bob's aunt's best friend. How's that for rubbing shoulders with the Rich and Famous?
10828. arkymalarky - 7/27/2000 4:31:23 PM
PS--I love the Honeymooners and Seinfeld, and I agree with Cal about MASH. I looked forward to seeing the episodes in reruns and they were a real disappointment. I couldn't believe I had thought they were so funny. The best ones to me were with Frank Burns.
BTW, I didn't see my all-time favorite, Gilligan's Island, on anyone's list.
10829. Fraaankster - 7/27/2000 4:45:50 PM
Arky,
Gilligan's Island was a fleeting thought, but that's about it...I would like to give the Skipper his props for borrowing a bit from Oliver Hardy, though. Some of those moments could be funny.:-)
On M.A.S.H., once Trapper, Henry, and Frank Burns left, it was never quite the same show. The first two years were the Bomb !
10830. CalGal - 7/27/2000 9:45:17 PM
A while back Ace mentioned that Who Wants to be a Millionaire was adding categories that were intended to be more "female-friendly".
I watched it today and the fast-finger question was:
Put the following models in order of birth, most recent first: Christie Brinkley, Tyra Banks, Cathy Ireland, and Lauren Hutton.
I watched a look of utter dismay and frustration cross one guy geek's face. The winner was a woman, who nailed the correct order (Banks, Ireland, Brinkley, and Hutton) in 3.98 seconds.
I think that's a totally legitimate
10831. CalGal - 7/27/2000 9:46:56 PM
Growl. I hate the mouse interface on this damn laptop.
I think that's a totally legitimate trivia question--it's just as trivially valid as knowing the second basemen for the Cardinals the last time they won a pennant race with Sparky whatsisname managing.
10832. Don S. - 7/27/2000 10:02:57 PM
"As teenagers, we couldn't wait to see next week's show to see who Mary was dating, what Rhoda would wear..."
Fraaaaank, you need to get more in touch with this side of you.
10833. Fraaankster - 7/28/2000 8:16:15 AM
Don,
I guess it was just a phase I was going through at the time ... that Rhoda Morgenstern did wear some fabulous patterns at the time though, didn't she ?
10834. rubberducky - 7/28/2000 10:21:01 AM
10835. Don S. - 7/28/2000 12:43:48 PM
One of the surprise "Mystery Guests" on Kathie Lee's last show was ... (get ready for it) ... MARILU HENNER!!
Ooooh. Pinch me.
10836. KuligintheHooligan - 7/29/2000 3:53:41 PM
"Gladiator" came to Windhoek and my wife and I sent to see it last night. We both enjoyed the movie. Actually, I've never seen the lead actor before, Russell Crowe, in anything else. Is he a relative newcomer?
Next week both Mission Impossible 2 and The Patriot also come to Windhoek.
10837. KuligintheHooligan - 7/29/2000 3:54:16 PM
Oh, I thought the opening war scene in Gladiator was one of the best "fight" scenes I have ever seen in a movie.
10838. KuligintheHooligan - 7/29/2000 3:59:00 PM
"I love the Honeymooners"
I never saw the humor in the show actually, and can't understand why people *today* would like it.
As for my favorite sitcoms, Cheers would most certainly be at the top, along with All in the Family. Taxi would make the top 5 for sure too, a great, great cast. Newhart was always funny to me, as was The Odd Couple. I also enjoyed the Jeffersons, another All in the Family splinter. For more recent sitcoms, I enjoyed Wings.
10839. KuligintheHooligan - 7/29/2000 4:00:41 PM
Oh, and growing up in the 70s, Happy Days was great, at least as long as Fonzi was cool. Once Richie Cunningham left the show it was a complete dud.
And I could never understand why Rosanne was at the top of TV shows for so many years. I couldn't stand the show.
Frasier is a really good show too, although being in Namibia since 1994 I have missed the bulk of it.
10840. KuligintheHooligan - 7/29/2000 4:06:11 PM
Oh, Hogan's Heros was always a favorite of mine, although I haven't seen an episode in probably a decade or more.
10841. Cellar Door - 7/29/2000 4:58:26 PM
Russell Crowe was in "L.A. Confidential," "The Insider" (last year's least-seen worthwhile movie), "The Sum of Us" (where he smooched a whole mess o cute Aussie guys), and "Romper Stomper" (where he played a neo-Nazi punk.)
He is, in short, one of the most interesting and truly talented young actors around.
10842. Indiana Jones - 7/29/2000 4:59:30 PM
Kuligin: I've still not seen Gladiator, but Russell Crowe was excellent in LA Confidential. And he's been in a couple of other roles as well.
10843. Cellar Door - 7/29/2000 5:07:01 PM
And here he is in semi-real life!
10844. PelleNilsson - 7/29/2000 5:22:22 PM
Porte au Sous-sol
Do you take these pictures?
10845. Cellar Door - 7/29/2000 5:35:01 PM
Yep.
10846. PelleNilsson - 7/29/2000 5:36:40 PM
Classy. I like B/W for portraits. Seem to bring out character better.
10847. JudithAtHome - 7/29/2000 5:46:27 PM
It covers a multitude of sins, too....
10848. Cellar Door - 7/29/2000 6:11:50 PM
Now, now, Judith. What possible sins could there be here in Hollywood?
Don't answer that.
10849. JudithAtHome - 7/29/2000 6:14:40 PM
C'mon, Cellar...not everyone has a picture in their attic like you!:-)
10850. Cellar Door - 7/29/2000 6:16:11 PM
Black don't crack, Judith!
10851. KuligintheHooligan - 7/30/2000 2:17:15 PM
Any guesses on how long the marriage between Brat Pitt and Jennifer Anniston will last?
10852. JudithAtHome - 7/30/2000 2:38:12 PM
Under a year...
10853. KuligintheHooligan - 7/30/2000 2:51:20 PM
Yeah, I was thinking about 6 months, but then I saw their picture and how much in love they look.
So I'll give them 7 months.
10854. Jenerator - 7/30/2000 4:56:30 PM
Cellar,
What was the name of the hockey movie Russell Crowe was in? Something Alaska.
10855. PsychProf - 7/30/2000 5:00:13 PM
HERE YA GO JEN
click on photo 
10856. Uzmakk - 7/30/2000 6:28:25 PM
They moved the Iron Chef to 7:00 PM Sunday. Add that to the Simpsons at 8:00 and it looks like I have a decent TV night.
10857. wonkers2 - 7/31/2000 12:30:20 AM
Saw Sunshine tonight, all three hours of it. Slow paced but a good movie covering four generations of a Jewish family in Budapest, starting with great-great grandfather Sonnenschein who accidentally blew himself up in his distillery. His son left home at 14 with the family's secret recipe for a tonic and made a comfortable fortune in Budapest selling Sunshine Tonic.
The tonic maker had two sons, one of whom was played by Ralph Fiennes who became a judge and in order to advance to the high court changed his name from Sonnenschein to Sors a "more Hungarian name." His brother and sister also changed their names to Sors at the same time with the reluctant blessing of their father but with the promise that they would not give up their faith. His brother became a doctor and a socialist bent on overthrowing the emperor.
The judge's son, also played by Ralph Fiennes, became the Hungarian fencing champion in the 1930s and converted to Catholicism in order to be admitted to the Military Club fencing team. He led the team to a gold medal in the 1936 Olympics in Berlin and returned home a national hero. This didn't help him when fascists allied with Hitler took power in Hungary. He and his son were sent to a concentration camp where he was murdered in front of his son for refusing to admit he was a Jew. All he would say was "I was an Olympic gold medalist. I was fencing champion of Hungary. I was awarded a medal by the Emperor."
His son survived and became a communist functionary, also played by Fiennes, during the cold war. For any feminist Motrins who may feel that women are sexually exploited by Hollywood, there were several full frontal shots of Ralph, and in each of his incarnations he was seduced somewhat graphically and abandoned by an aggressive woman, (a different one in each case).
more
10858. wonkers2 - 7/31/2000 12:36:18 AM
Sunshine was quite an epic movie which reminded me of two earlier ones--The Garden of the Finzi-Continis about a wealthy Jewish family in Rome under Mussolini and The Leopard which was about how a noble Italian family adapted to the changes brought about Garibaldi. I suppose Dr. Zhivago falls in the same category. Burt Lancaster played the lead in The Leopard which was one of his greatest roles. All these movies dealt with the them of how individuals and families adapt or fail to adapt to the pressures of political change and/or to the issue of assimilation by minorities into a majority culture.
10859. JudithAtHome - 7/31/2000 10:55:55 AM
The Pitt/Aniston wedding cost a million dollars. One and a half shows for her, I guess. But I cannot imagine spending that much money just to feel married.
Speaking of idiotic wastes of money, who is waiting with bated breath to see Autumn In New York which looks like a geriatric Love Story without the Waspy clothes?
10860. CalGal - 7/31/2000 10:57:31 AM
Wonkers,
Good review. Thanks!
Judith,
I thought it was an update of "Sweet November" or one of those other "I'm dying but fortunately I've found someone who enjoys short-term relationship" flicks.
10861. glendajean - 7/31/2000 11:01:05 AM
Yes, they don't make Susan Hayward movies like they used to.
10862. JudithAtHome - 7/31/2000 11:03:57 AM
CalGal:
I couldn't care less what it is, actually...it makes me almost barf everytime I see the ads on TV. When is Richard Gere going to admit he is 50 and do a movie with some one old enough to be his sister?
Winonas voice sounds like a 13 year olds...it would be called pedophilia if you went by what the girl looks and sounds like and what the geezer looks and sounds like. I know, I know...it happens all the time in real life. But it still gripes me that if it were Gena Rowland and Bradd Pitt, people would be out with picket signs and the police.
10863. JudithAtHome - 7/31/2000 11:05:05 AM
Add an s and subtract a d at will...
10864. CalGal - 7/31/2000 11:07:31 AM
Well, in all defense of Gere, he doesn't look much past 40, and relationships between 40 year olds and 28 year olds aren't all that rare.
But the movie looks boring, and I'm very very very cranky about movies this year. It will go down as one of the worst on record, I think.
10865. JudithAtHome - 7/31/2000 11:16:07 AM
I think he looks older than 40. If you like him, he looks good for his age...I don't like him at all but can admit he looks good for 50.
10866. CalGal - 7/31/2000 11:18:21 AM
Okay, split the diff and call it 44. It's not on the list of egregious differences like Connery and wuzzhername in Entrapment.
Also, Gere works at his best with younger women. Such as it is. And that isn't necessarily a compliment, just a statement of fact.
I dislike Ryder, though, and think it's a bad matchup. Along with lousy idea and, presumably, terrible execution.
Sigh.
10867. Cellar Door - 7/31/2000 11:30:39 AM
Michael Douglas is the worst offender when it comes to cradle robbing. Gwyneth played his wife in that "Dial M For Murder" remake, and she used to babysit for his children when she was a teenager!
10868. CalGal - 7/31/2000 11:32:35 AM
Cellar,
Absolutely. Good call on Douglas.
10869. DocBrown - 7/31/2000 12:38:58 PM
Over the weekend my wife, Porsche, and I were in a wedding party. The Best Man convinced us all to go out and see a late showing of The X Men.
The movie stunk. But the state-of-the-art theater, with stadium seating and bone jarring digital sound, rocked my world. When it was all over Porsche needed two Tylenols.
For better or worse, it takes that sort of sensory experience to get me into a theater today. Plot, character development, even good acting and camera work will not do it. I can see those things at home with my DVD player.
Perhaps only a loyal comic book fan can appreciate the finer points of The X Men. For the rest of us, I doubt that even a twelve year old would be turned on by the plot. I went in knowing none of the characters and came out in pretty much the same state.
Yet the sensory experience was a lot of fun. It was like downhill skiing in the middle of a Metallica concert.
If you want to see a great movie, rent Dogma. If you want to get your money's worth out of a movie ticket at one of those new mega-theaters, then go see The X Men. But for the love of God, do not rent The X Men! As a movie, it stinks.
10870. Indiana Jones - 7/31/2000 12:44:03 PM
And in real life Michael Douglas is with Catherine Zeta-Jones.
The lip-gnashing, teeth-grinding unfairness of it all.
10871. marshame - 7/31/2000 2:14:11 PM
wonkers
Good review of Sunshine. I really enjoyed it, too. Ralph Finnes is one of my favorite actors, but he has been in some terrible movies lately, so I was really glad to see him in this. And he is quite a swordsman, to boot!
10872. theDiva - 7/31/2000 2:44:20 PM
Judith
Gena and Brad? It'd never even get made. Doncha get it? Women over a certain age simply don't exist as sexual beings in Hollyland.
Indy
WRT Douglas and Miss Z-J....if it's any consolation, I doubt she'd have looked at him twice had he been the honey wagon driver.
10873. EricCartman - 7/31/2000 5:04:40 PM
A double-header on today's Forgive or Forget:
Sister, How Could You Stab Me?
and
Get Over It....Your Ex Is My Man Now!
As always, the participants are hot-tempered mouth-breathers who are apparently unable to conjugate those complex verbs "to do" and "to be". In fact, they look and sound an awful lot like the hot-tempered mouth-breathers that were on Ricki Lake last week. It's hard to tell, really. But I just love those topic titles.
Says who there's no cultural value on TV anymore?
10874. JudithAtHome - 7/31/2000 5:22:41 PM
Okay...Kim Cattrall and Brad Pitt? She is not one to be denied "sexy lady" titles....I guess I was reaching saying Gena Rowlands.
10875. theDiva - 7/31/2000 5:25:20 PM
well, it wasn't reaching. There's at least 25 years between them, as there is between Gere and Ryder. And Cattrall is what, 40? So they're roughly in the same ballpark.
10876. Indiana Jones - 7/31/2000 5:25:36 PM
Cartman: You know how during the breaks on those shows they solicit future guests?
Well, on Jerry Springer the other day (wasn't watching it, was rolling from channel to channel and that's why I caught this during the commercial break, okay?), he was asking for "underage girls who will do anything to get pregnant" to call in.
Was he booking future guests or future dates?
10877. Indiana Jones - 7/31/2000 5:26:52 PM
Diva: Are you saying I need to change occupations (from honey wagon driver)?
10878. theDiva - 7/31/2000 5:28:52 PM
Indy
To, like, movie mogul? If you want a shallow, gorgeous young starlet on your arm, yeah.
10879. Jenerator - 7/31/2000 8:05:28 PM
PP,
Thank you! MYSTERY, ALASKA!! I'd like to rent it, but my boyfriends wants me to wait until he's back.
Regarding Michael Douglas, Sean Connery, and Bill Clinton, why women think they're sexy is beyond me. Obviously fame is their power and their source of allure. Put ANY of those men in a bathing suit and take away their celebrity and very few women would be interested. Very few.
10880. theDiva - 8/1/2000 8:34:09 AM
Clinton and Douglas do nothing for me, but Sean Connery's appeal lies not in his bod, but in his persona. It's not about the money or the power, but rather what the dimples, the sexy growl, and the arched eyebrow convey....a man of experience and worldliness who knows what a woman wants and likes. Yum.
10881. rubberducky - 8/1/2000 8:47:28 AM
horn dog
10882. rubberducky - 8/1/2000 9:51:54 AM
and speaking of other horn dogs, here is more religious freaks on display.
The university has spoken, and it looks like The Real World has come crashing down on Julie.
That would be Julie Stoffer, the cute, 20-year-old Mormon whose decision to share a house with (gasp!) boys on MTV's reality soap opera landed her in hot water with Brigham Young University. The Utah school has now suspended Stoffer for a year, saying she violated the school's honor code by shacking up with the opposite sex during her five-month mission, er, stay, in New Orleans.
10883. Cellar Door - 8/1/2000 10:37:32 AM
"This isn't a judgment about whether she's a good or a bad person, this is about did she live up to the commitments she made when she signed the honor code," BYU spokeswoman Carri Jenkins told Provo's Daily Herald"
Bullshit! To the Mormons, Julie's a Jezebel.
I think it was her appearance at the drag show that did it. But she really shouldn't care. She got on TV, and as well all know that's the most important theing in this culture.
10884. glendajean - 8/1/2000 10:39:47 AM
Did I miss something? I thought she (and that goofy boy she has a crush on) are poster children for virginity. Does she slip on the program?
Of course, she did venture aloud that after meeting the gay housemate that maybe her previous opinions on gay folk were open to change.
10885. JudithAtHome - 8/1/2000 11:02:32 AM
GJ:
She is being shunned for sleeping in the same room, but in a different bed, with a gay guy who is sleeping with another girl in the other bed. Sleeping being Going To Sleep and remaining so throughout the night. No sex, just sleep.
10886. glendajean - 8/1/2000 11:05:48 AM
So Brigham Young students cannot fall asleep on an airplane if the person in the next seat is of the opposite sex?
Somebody got's a tough job in Provo.
10887. JudithAtHome - 8/1/2000 11:07:42 AM
Yeah, imagine how many would be axed for falling asleep in church!
10888. OhioSTOPAS - 8/1/2000 11:12:43 AM
Looks like another pretty 20-year-old woman might need comforting.
Where's Greystoke?
10889. Jenerator - 8/1/2000 11:16:00 AM
Take the Internet Addiction Quiz in the Internet Thread!! 10890. Jenerator - 8/1/2000 11:30:05 AM Test 10891. Indiana Jones - 8/1/2000 11:30:48 AM
10892. Cellar Door - 8/1/2000 6:03:13 PM
10893. glendajean - 8/1/2000 6:20:52 PM
Great interview, Celler. Congrats!
10894. Cellar Door - 8/1/2000 7:11:37 PM
Merci!
10895. LadyChaos - 8/1/2000 10:19:35 PM
Cllrdr,
I've been thinking of getting a DVD player. But the more I think about it, the more I feel that perhaps I'd rather have a laserdisc player, and just a handful of great films on LD rather than a hodge-podge of stuff on DVD. What do you think? Is the quality difference between the two that remarkable?
Do you know of an online site for ordering LD players and films on laserdisc? Miami is such a backwater.
10896. LadyChaos - 8/1/2000 10:34:15 PM
Actually, I see that Pioneer makes some combination players. Pricey, but perhaps a worthy compromise. Any experience out there?
10897. Jack Vincennes - 8/2/2000 10:44:11 AM
Magnolia
Clocking in at 3 hours and 11 minutes, the first half of Paul Thomas Anderson's follow-up to "Boogie Nights" is ambitious, engaging, and risky. Sadly, the remainder of the film is self-indulgent, infantile, maddening, and, ultimately, an assult on one's senses like nothing you've ever experienced before.
Basically a pastiche of several intersecting stories in Los Angeles, Magnolia recounts a day in the lives of earnest cop John C. Reilly, woman-hating television Svengali Tom Cruise, cancer-ridden game show icon Philip Baker Hall, his wife Melinda Dillon, his daughter Melora Walters, cancer-ridden and dying television magnate Jason Robards, his mentally ill wife Julianne Moore, Robard's nurse Philip Seymour Hoffman, game show child wunderkind Jeremy Blackmon, his father Michael Bowen, and former game show child wunderkind William H. Macy.
The first problem is structural. Anderson has chosen a story with countless characters who are at the point of a knife in their lives. Drug abuse, fear of dying, dying itself, mental illness, abandonment . . . these are but a few of the issues confronting these characters. As such, scene after scene of high-pitched melodrama makes for a trying time.
10898. Jack Vincennes - 8/2/2000 10:44:31 AM
The first problem leads into the second: overacting. Because the script is in many ways a collection of speeches at emotional high points, the actors tend to dispense with any hint of subtlety (save Hoffman and Hall, who are notable for their restraint), opting to instead screech at the screen. Cruise (who was nominated and was infinitely better in the clunky "Eyes Wide Shut"), Moore, Walters, and disappointingly, Macy, are the prime offenders. Cruise's deathbed scene with Robards is damn near unbearable, as is Macy's "I have love to give" barroom soliloquy.
The third problem is visual. Anderson is clearly comfortable with the camera, and he refuses to see movement as reserved for action and/or exclamation. His world is both fluid and frenetic, and the style has its merits. But very rarely does he simply stop. No shot is so mundane that it cannot be a dolley-shot or a snakelike track. In the end, it is too much.
Finally, Anderson makes two truly awful choices in the second half of the film. SPOILERS. First, he besmirches one of the nice things about his film (Aimee Mann's songs - like Elliot Smith in "Good Will Hunting", she has produced several simple, literate and haunting tunes that match the mood of the film) by having his characters actually sing some of the lines to one of her ditties. The effect is awkward. I laughed. Literally, we have Jason Robards on death's door, singing along with Aimee Mann. The second is unbelievable and just flat out bizarre: frogs fall out of the sky. Not figuratively, but literally. Big, fat, gloppy frogs.
To see this done right, I suggest "Beautiful People" which is also out on video now, and will save you 95 or so minutes.
10899. Cellar Door - 8/2/2000 11:10:06 AM
Laser is OVER, Lady C. It's being fazed out faster than spit on a griddle.
Nice take on "Magnolia," Jack. I only made it through the first hour.
Walked out of "Hollow Man" after 20 minutes.
Greatly enjoyed "Geezers in Space." It's the first high-tech male weepie, folks. Clint is very, very funny. And it's nice to see him cast an age-appropriate actress to play his wife. Mainly it's Tommy Lee Jones' film. But Donald Sutherland steals every every damn scene he's in. BOY is he good!
Very interesting plotting re "Star Wars." But I'm going to wait for more of y'all to see it before saying any more.
10900. theDiva - 8/2/2000 11:20:26 AM
HAHAHA! Geezers in Space!
Has that opened yet? What's it rated?
10901. theDiva - 8/2/2000 11:21:54 AM
And just the trailers for 'Hollow Man' were pieces of shit. How Kevin Bacon has sustained his career is beyond me. I can't stomach him, he reminds me too much of a repulsive ex-boyfriend.
10902. Jack Vincennes - 8/2/2000 11:29:33 AM
Some other movies for those headed to the video store:
Scream 3: I actually rented this not having seen Scream 2. Like porn movies, viewing the first installment is not required. A couple of good jokes, and the emergence of an awkward child-teen star who actually has become leading man handsome -Patrick Dempsey. He's aged into Gabriel Byrne. As for the movie, C-.
Deuce Bigalow, Male Gigolo: Rob Schneinder's pimp call him a "man whore" and constantly derides him as a 70s blaxploitation pimp would his own ho'. This is pretty funny. Little else is. D+.
Mansfield Park: Lush and literate adaptation of Jane Austen's novel, it ranks favorable with Sense and Sensibility. No real missteps. B+.
Ride With the Devil: Roland Emmerich should be strapped to a chair and forced to watch this film as penance for the ahistorical tripe heap that is "The Patriot." Ang Lee tells the tale of pro-slavery and anti-slavery guerrillas in Missouri with restraint and respect for the time, making an effective period piece. The film is hobbled a bit by the annoying pokiness of Tobey Maguire and the at times amateurish performance of Jewel, but it is still worth the rent. B.
Of course, Emmerich would retort, "Ride viff zee Devil made no money. The Patriot, you imbecile, made meelions und meelions." And then I'd punch him in the throat because he was tied to a chair.
10903. LadyChaos - 8/2/2000 11:31:21 AM
Cllrdr,
Does DVD compare favorably at all with LD, or are we talking about another episode of VHS trumps Betamax?
10904. Cellar Door - 8/2/2000 11:50:34 AM
DVD is WAY superior to laser. The image is better and it doesn't rot.
10905. Cellar Door - 8/2/2000 11:53:19 AM
"Ride with the Devil" came and went like THAT,/i>. It's a real interesting, film -- though not a success overall. And it features another Fabulous turn by Jonathan Rhys-Myers. MAN what a screamer!
And I like Tobey too. But more in "Wonder Boys" than here.
10906. Cellar Door - 8/2/2000 11:53:52 AM
toys.
10907. marshame - 8/2/2000 3:32:46 PM
Jack V
Thanks for the review of Magnolia. I feel spared of 3 hours leading into full blown depression.
-------------------
Last night I made the mistake of watching Politically Incorrect. Bill Maher has apparently forgone any semblance of being politically nuetral. He blasted Arsenio Hall for criticizing Clinton and actually suggested that their friendship was over if Hall was going to condemn Clinton on moral grounds. I think Maher was quite dismayed to find himself with 3 republicans and only one democrat on his little forum - usually he plays it the other way around. So he made up for it by blasting Bush at every turn, and was reduced to questioning why why why the republicans didn't nominate the "true war hero" John McCain. News flash to Maher - they didn't, so it's moot for this time around.
It's always a mistake for me to watch this show before going to bed because it irritates me out a restful, slumber-mode.
10908. LadyChaos - 8/2/2000 3:58:09 PM
I've found that Bill Maher can dish it out both ways, being that he is a Libertarian. But he does bristle at Republican hypocrisy, which is understandable.
Jack,
Your review of Magnolia is dead-on. I summed it up as: Movie Studio gives $20 million to film student and looks the other way.*
*I don't know if this was the actual budget, but it "felt" like $20 mil.
Cllrdr,
That's surprising. I expected that DVD would have more compression problems. Thanks.
10909. Cellar Door - 8/2/2000 4:12:29 PM
"Geezers in Space" opens on Friday and it's PG-13.
10910. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 4:23:53 PM
marsha:
I watch PI every morning after having taped it the night before. I love it. And I think Bill is an equal opportunity BS detector.
10911. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 4:48:02 PM
I was up late last night and saw these 2 hysterically dense little girls on Jay Leno doing Convention coverage. It was like his dumbest Man In The Street interviews. Delightful!
10912. JudithAtHome - 8/2/2000 10:56:26 PM
H-man:
I hope you figure out the totals on the Trash TV Sweepstakes and post them here in the morning!
10913. AytchMan - 8/2/2000 11:42:17 PM
judith--
Hard at work at this very moment.
10914. AytchMan - 8/3/2000 12:03:44 AM
Survivor Update:
Adios, Gervase. At least, you'd think they'd have had the decency to spell his name right.
Anyway, in another increasingly desperate attempt for attention, I've compiled the latest point projection for the benighted Survivor series:
judith -- semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win -- 2.50 points.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win -- 1.00.
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win -- 2.50.
aytchman -- Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win -- 2.00.
diva -- Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win -- 1.00.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win -- 2.50.
calgal --Kelly, Greg and Sean with Greg to win -- 1.00.
marshame -- Greg, Gervase and Sean, with Sean to win -- 1.50.
These figures have been vetted by a panel of renowned scholars. Each scholar has certified not only that the projections are wrong but that I've violated one or more laws of physics.
10915. AytchMan - 8/3/2000 12:34:40 AM
Since Survivor is stage-managed in abundance, we can never be sure what's really going on, as Professor Cartman has pointed out. Nevertheless, I've been intrigued by the (apparent) moral agonizing among the castaways. They seem to be actively struggling with the dilemma of "poker game/screw your buddy/win versus honorable behavior/look myself in the mirror/maybe win".
And yet it's not at all obvious to me what the best strategy is. Two weeks ago, I figured Richard The Conniver was a lock. Now I think he's a long shot. Most of them seem to be going through a fascinating process of re-evaluating their alliances and shifting their strategies. Even Sean (the moron).
10916. CalGal - 8/3/2000 12:45:12 AM
What do those numbers mean, btw? (lordy, I feel silly)
Just watched the first half of Birth of a Nation. Lordy again.
10917. AytchMan - 8/3/2000 12:57:26 AM
You feel silly? I'm running this ferschlugginer thing.
Way back when, as Cosmic Ruler of the Survivor poll, I specified that each correct semifinalist would be worth 1 point and the winner 2 points. So, the above projection is the result of several of my synapses firing blindly.
10918. glendajean - 8/3/2000 9:46:14 AM
Over at survivorsucks.com, many felt that Gervase was going to win, based on a CBS website screw-up.
The surviving Pagong, Sean and Kelly folk are nuts not to have figured out that they should have gotten rid of Susan or Rudy. Now it's a 3-3 split. Their only hope is to win an immunity challenge.
10919. theDiva - 8/3/2000 10:21:02 AM
Cellar
T'anks.
H
Astonishing. And I've never even seen the stinkin show.
10920. JudithAtHome - 8/3/2000 11:12:33 AM
Gervase has a future in the limelight if the interviews today are any indication...he is smooth as silk. And looks like Michael Jordan.
10921. theDiva - 8/3/2000 11:14:37 AM
mmm, mmmmm, MMMMMM!
There is no man like a black man.
10922. JudithAtHome - 8/3/2000 12:04:59 PM
Well, I would venture to say yours is much more appealing than Gervace; he is.....not as good as he looks, I think.
10923. JudithAtHome - 8/3/2000 1:43:51 PM
I heard that Gwyneth Paltrow is going to make a movie in which she weighs 350 pounds. Lest anyone fear she would sacrifice for her art by actually eating something, the reporter hastened to state she would reach this size with the aid of a "fat suit" and special film techniques like those used in the Nutty Professor.
Jeez, I can hardly wait.....
10924. glendajean - 8/3/2000 1:45:06 PM
Gosh, she really did take the Pitt-Aniston wedding badly.
10925. JudithAtHome - 8/3/2000 1:48:35 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahaha.........
10926. PsychProf - 8/3/2000 2:04:33 PM
My take...it will come down to Rudy, Sue, and Rich...Rich(who considers Rudy weak and easily beatable) and Rudy will kill Sue, and the jury/panel will be forced to choose between a bigot and a manipulator...Rudy wins.
10927. JudithAtHome - 8/3/2000 2:10:23 PM
PP:
I'm starting to regret picking Richard to win...I think you are 100% right.
10928. AytchMan - 8/3/2000 2:20:07 PM
Second-rate art imitates life...
First, the nice people go (Sonya, Ramona, Gretchen, well, maybe not BB). Then, the sharks start circling each other.
The delectable wild card in all of this is that the Jury of Seven will actually pick the winner from the two finalists. This is a masterful stroke on the part of the producers although I'm not at all sure they knew what they were doing. The Jury vote ensures that a purely cutthroat strategy will not (necessarily) win.
10929. PsychProf - 8/3/2000 2:23:00 PM
Itchy...isn't that what I just said? Message # 10926
10930. AytchMan - 8/3/2000 2:26:10 PM
pp--
Not really.
Itchy?
10931. PsychProf - 8/3/2000 2:43:26 PM
10932. AytchMan - 8/3/2000 2:47:50 PM
pp--
If you're lookin' to shake up Moter City a bit (as declared), post over in Inferno and 'splain how our two statements are so similar and we'll get into it (just for fun, no hard feelings).
C'mon, c'mon, puddemup.
10933. PsychProf - 8/3/2000 2:51:25 PM
Survive this... 
10934. rubberducky - 8/3/2000 3:07:22 PM
for those of you who wonder why some people "do it" (including me):
"After going to the polls to find out who's hot and who's not, Playboy has made a big-bucks offer to castoff castaway Jenna Lewis to pose nude for an upcoming spread."
siiiiiigh so unfair. why isn't PlayGirl talking to one of the young hot guys like nipple-ring boy?? or, better yet, Danny from Real World??
whatta world!
10935. PsychProf - 8/3/2000 3:10:11 PM
Ducky...here is a clue... 
10936. rubberducky - 8/3/2000 3:11:13 PM
ah, ic
she's a cute girl, sure
no Danny, however
heh
10937. theDiva - 8/3/2000 3:56:07 PM
Judith
I dunno, I never even saw the show. And who the heck are those guys?
10938. theDiva - 8/3/2000 3:56:50 PM
that chick is not all that. She's slender but she's not fit.
10939. Cellar Door - 8/3/2000 3:57:18 PM
Hey Ducks, did you see the premiere of the latest "reality" show "American High School"? There's a kid on it who's 15 and OUT!
The "Culture War" Pat Buchanan declared is over -- AND WE WON!
10940. theDiva - 8/3/2000 3:57:33 PM
(said the ever-expanding preggo enviously, sighing in nostalgia for the days when she looked even better than that in a bikini.)
10941. Cellar Door - 8/3/2000 3:58:32 PM
Green isn't your color, Deev!
10942. theDiva - 8/3/2000 3:59:10 PM
hahahahahaha!!!!!!
Good cp!
10943. rubberducky - 8/3/2000 4:46:39 PM
hey cellar
i watched the last few minutes of that while waiting for South Park
show was ok, very glad to see that guy dealing with these things at such an early age.... that and the boy who gave the good speech about "doing whatever the hell you want to" was helping mentally challenged kids with thoughts of doing that for a living ... not what i expected. might tune back in if i can remember it's on!
10944. Cellar Door - 8/3/2000 5:12:49 PM
10945. JudithAtHome - 8/3/2000 6:07:30 PM
Ducks:
You really ought to give it a try...I taped it and after watching the 2 episodes, I'm going to watch more next week. There's a girl with a weird mom; girl says she's thinking about college even tho she's only a Junior and her mom, who has been trying to talk to a parrot by flapping her arms at it, says "Oh, don't go to college! You have singing talent; make yourself happy doing what you like...don't bother with college!"
The young man who is out is very interesting...and his room is spotless!
10946. Don S. - 8/3/2000 6:35:09 PM
Lest you're tempted to stereotype, Judith: I'm 100% gay and my house is a freakin' mess.
10947. JudithAtHome - 8/3/2000 6:39:08 PM
DonS:
I'm not stereotyping, just aswoon with admiration.
10948. Cellar Door - 8/3/2000 7:04:46 PM
"Don S."? Hmmm. You don't happen to hail from Arizona, perchance?
10949. Don S. - 8/3/2000 7:16:19 PM
Cellar, sheesh! Are you just now putting this together?
10950. arkymalarky - 8/3/2000 7:36:43 PM
Elliot!!!
10951. Don S. - 8/4/2000 1:24:59 AM
Where???
10952. rubberducky - 8/4/2000 8:29:46 AM
Cellar:
there's only one reason i'd watch the Young Americans show... and it isn't steve. it starts with a "B" and ends with "oys"
Arky:
no, wrong AZ poster. hint: think the less shrill one
10953. Cellar Door - 8/4/2000 10:01:31 AM
Well you've just discovered Steve'e secret, ducky -- Casting!
Well rather than watch the Chimp, I went to the movies last night. It was a screening of a new Made-For-Showtime drama called "One Kill," directed by Christopher Menaul of "Prime Suspect" fame. Anne Heche stars as a Marine who kills her officer lover (Sam Shepard) in self-defense, but faces courtroom disaster anyway. Nicely done. Anne and Ellen were there and I got some nice pics and chatted with them briefly. Boy are those gals glamorous! Anne is the new Helen Mirren. She and Ellen are as much in love as ever.
And Mary Cheney's a weenie!
10954. rubberducky - 8/4/2000 10:10:51 AM
hey cellar - quick question
how bad is Coyote Ugly gonna suck? it looks horrible
10955. Cellar Door - 8/4/2000 10:30:08 AM
I didn't go to the All-Media. It's about girls who dance on a bar, right? Boys who dance on a bar and I'm there.
10956. rubberducky - 8/4/2000 10:31:48 AM
hahaha
ah, yes. well, it had cute guys in it, from the previews, but in hindsight, kind of a dumb question....
10957. glendajean - 8/4/2000 10:37:58 AM
The NY TImes described it this morning as a story about a mom and pop run Hooters. The beautiful girls dish a playboy magazine model as being shallow, then poor water on themselves to make their blouses and leather pants stick closer to their bodies and proceed to show their bartending skills, ala Cruise in "Cocktails," for customers who seem to have no interest in actually drinking what they purchase, but are more interested in the bar tender and her skills at mixing the drinks.
10958. CalGal - 8/4/2000 11:05:43 AM
A while back Ace, Rask, and I had a go-round about the Time-Warner pulling of ABC off the air.
There is a very interesting piece on it in the 7/31 New Yorker that I recommend to everyone. Eisner and Iger played a brilliant hand.
10959. rubberducky - 8/4/2000 1:24:50 PM
Re: Message # 10945, JudithAtHome.
"You really ought to give it a try...I taped it and after watching the 2 episodes, I'm going to watch more next week."
well, not sure what Wed will bring, doubt i'll be home, but will try to catch it .. but you said 2 shows? i thought it just premiered?
10960. JudithAtHome - 8/4/2000 1:29:12 PM
They ran 2 half hour shows on Wednesday. I expect them to do the same again next week so if you decide to tape it, make sure you check the listings..
10961. AytchMan - 8/4/2000 4:33:45 PM
Your Survivor Sweepstakes Odds Fix--
9 to 2 -- judith, psychprof, cartman
6 to 1 -- aytchman
8 to 1 -- marshame
13 to 1 --rubberducky, diva, calgal
Who will take it in the shorts next week? I think Sean's a good bet (the momo).
10962. TabouliJones - 8/4/2000 4:36:07 PM
I second CalGal's recommendation of the New Yorker article on the Time Warner vs. Disney debacle. I especially like the account of how Time Warner shot itself in the foot by feeding into concerns about the anticompetitive impact of the TW/AOL merger. TW's short term strategy may have made sense, and its original beef with Disney was most likely justified, but, it seems that, as a long term strategy, the shutting down of ABC was none too bright.
10963. TabouliJones - 8/4/2000 4:38:31 PM
I also recommend the New Yorker piece on Al Gore, which appears in either the same issue or the subsequent issue (I can't remember which).
10964. arkymalarky - 8/4/2000 5:43:19 PM
Rgds Message # 10951&Message # 10952
I was joking, guys!
But Ducks, you really think Don is less shrill?
Not that I keep up with Playboy or anything, but what is this 15 minutes of fame followed by a Penthouse or Playboy spread trend? I could see it if they were usually very attractive. Bob heard from a reputable source, though, that Shari (sp) Belafonte looks great at 45 (?) in her recent Playboy stint.
10965. Don S. - 8/4/2000 6:34:08 PM
Nonsense, Arky. I'm much less shrill than Elliott. Much, much, much less!
Idiot.
10966. Indiana Jones - 8/4/2000 6:42:31 PM
AytchMan (10961): Something doesn't seem right about those odds. Maybe my probability is rusty, but they appear to add up to more than one.
10967. Cellar Door - 8/4/2000 7:05:45 PM
I really don't know what it is with Elliot, Don. He's such a babe, yet such a bother.
10968. Slackjaw - 8/4/2000 7:10:24 PM
Indiana
I get 1.013709.
10969. Slackjaw - 8/5/2000 11:45:00 PM
...by treating judith, pp, cartman, rd, diva and calgal as different events, which may not be appropriate I realize, but I'm too lazy to scroll back and see the details.
(But not too lazy to post this useless addendum over 24 hours later)
10970. CalGal - 8/5/2000 11:52:17 PM
Well, I am certainly an event unto myself.
10971. JudithAtHome - 8/6/2000 11:07:16 AM
Me, too...just ask my neighbors or anyone who's been to one of my New Years Day brunches.
10972. PelleNilsson - 8/6/2000 12:49:58 PM
Yeah. Lady of a certain age, dealing in antiquities, driving a Jaguar. A mental picture starts to form.
10973. JudithAtHome - 8/6/2000 1:01:38 PM
Don't get too carried away with that picture, Pelle. I'm completely harmless....
10974. PelleNilsson - 8/6/2000 2:30:40 PM
Wide-brimmed hat, long shirt, elegant jacket, hawk-like eyes .....
10975. JudithAtHome - 8/6/2000 2:42:21 PM
Two out of four, Pelle...skirt and jacket, yes....short brimmed hat, though.
And I have big brown eyes. Unless you meant "hawk-like" as in: good for spotting bargains.
10976. Jack Vincennes - 8/6/2000 3:25:18 PM
What Lies Beneath
This movie received middling reviews, and I was reluctnatly forced to go by my love of the genre. It was an extremely pleasant surprise. It is a Vermont haunted house, double-double story, that combines elements of "Rear Window" and "Vertigo" (it even sports an unabashedly Bernard Hermannesque score). Michelle Pfeiffer nails the artistic, gentle and susceptible role as the person who first communes with the dead. Harrison Ford is refreshingly in a supporting role that does not require his jaw-jutting, do-gooder schtick, and he excels. Robert Zemeckis does not bombard us with technical wizardry. Rather, he takes his time in the little things, making the aura all the more creepy.
And as Salon pointed out, the one significant supporting role (Diane Venora) is deft, the perfect choices for someone who could very well have taken it to the stereotypical kooky best friend level.
An A as a rental; I give it a B+ in the theatre/
10977. JudithAtHome - 8/6/2000 3:55:00 PM
Jack:
Did you see the trailer of this film before you saw it in the theater? I just wondered because I saw the trailer and thought it completely ruined the movie. I felt no need to see the movie afterward; the trailer gave away everything.
10978. Jack Vincennes - 8/6/2000 4:10:24 PM
Juditha
Once upon a time, I was looking forward to "The Godfather III". I watched the trailer. I watched Andy Garcia in a NYPD uniform, shoot Joe Mantegna. Thus, I knew this fact prior to seeing the movie. It pretty much ruined it for me. Luckily, the movie was not very good anyway.
Accordingly, since that moment, I do not read reviews prior to seeing movies. I scan them and try and get a general sense (Entertainment Weekly has a very helpful chart of the grade letters given to a film by 8 newspapers and magazines). Afterwards, I read reviews voraciously.
As for previews, if it is a film that looks interesting, I put my fingers in my ears and close my eyes. I did this with "What Lie Beneath." Last night, I saw the preview for the love story movie with Richard Gere and Winona Ryder. But I closed my eyes to the preview of the new movie by the guy who did "The Sixth Sense." I saw the preview for a James Spader/Keanu Reeves serial killer movie. I closed my eyes to the preview for The Blair Witch Project II. And so on and so on.
That said, What Lies Beneath had a great many twists. I just don't know how badly they divulged in the preview, but I assume it was egregious.
10979. LadyChaos - 8/6/2000 5:08:38 PM
Cllrdr,
I finally caught a brief interview with you on E!, last night. Great job.
10980. JudithAtHome - 8/6/2000 6:18:48 PM
Jack:
They told the entire story and the the trailer ran much longer than most. I hardly go to movies anymore for that reason....once you are in the audience and a trailer starts, it is very difficult to block out the sound, at the volume they run these things.
I doubt I'd have seen this movie anyhow because I can't stand either actor but I saw a clip on some entertainment show later where they interviewed the director and he was very proud of making the trailer; he made the remark, "Audiences today want to know what they're getting." I disagree. I'd have never gone to see many movies if they had given away entire plot points and ruined many surprises as they did with this particular one.
10981. AytchMan - 8/6/2000 6:52:15 PM
Indy--
I rechecked and I think the odds are ok. Each person's odds are separate. Also, remember that 9 to 2 equates to 2/11 (18%), not 2/9 (22%).
10982. LadyChaos - 8/6/2000 8:04:07 PM
Alfred Hitchcock had some of the greatest trailers, and he never gave away much of the story. The trailer for The Birds was particularly good, as I recall. Universal could probably make a few bucks by selling a reel of Hitchcock trailers.
10983. Indiana Jones - 8/6/2000 9:54:22 PM
Aytch: You are of course right (as is Slackjaw). I am shamefaced.
10984. AytchMan - 8/6/2000 10:01:59 PM
Indy--
No need. Somebody's gotta keep me honest since I dash through the calcs with all the diligence of Darva Conger.
10985. Stumbo - 8/7/2000 1:03:11 AM
On the off chance that anyone here was a fan of the late-70s show Family: my current web project is building a tribute page thereto. It's very far from finished, but anyone interested can check it out at
www.geocities.com/HollandSt
10986. JudithAtHome - 8/7/2000 9:11:17 AM
Alec Guiness....RIP
10987. Cellar Door - 8/7/2000 10:27:51 AM
Merci, Lady C!
Stumbo -- Did you ever catch "Kristy McNichol: The E! True Hollywood Story"?
Funny about Alec Guiness. When I was growing up I knew him solely for "Kind Hearts and Coronets," "The Lavender Hill Mob," "The Ladykillers" (a masterpiece!), and "The Captain's Paradise." So I thought of him as a comedian -- and saw Peter Sellers as his successor. Consequently when all the talk of his being a "distinguished actor" started to come out, it struck me odd.
10988. rubberducky - 8/7/2000 10:45:05 AM
Rental Update:
Rented Gun Shy this past weekend. i didn't really like it. i didn't really dislike it. i basically just didn't care from start to finish. the film didn’t give me any reason to do so.
Liam Neeson stars as a cop so far undercover he needs enemas from Sandra Bullock because Oliver Platt is scary and the drug guys need money laundered thru the guy from Caroline In The City.
it turns out to be about as interesting as it sounds. translation: not very
this is billed as a "Comedy" and for the life of me, i don't understand why. possibly because none of the other genres wanted it. Platt was very good as the odd, yet-aspiring-to-be-more villain. Bullock was good as the odd, yet-loveable-flake-who-happens-to-be-a-nurse. Neeson was good .... etc
the problem was the script had no pizzazz and the direction sure didn't spice it up any. all in all, a lack-luster movie in which the actors are better than the material.
10989. JudithAtHome - 8/7/2000 10:48:40 AM
Ducky...I love your video updates on Mondays because you pick videos that aren't the usual old ho-hum releases. Even the turkeys you choose sound interesting...
Cellar:
Guiness will always be "Smiley" to me.
10990. rubberducky - 8/7/2000 10:53:54 AM
thanks J@H!
it was tough choice between that, Man In the Moon, and a gay coming of age flick that i had seen and my date hadn't
shoulda went with Moon ....
10991. JudithAtHome - 8/7/2000 11:08:32 AM
Okay, everyone get the millennial run over with while I'm cleaning the bathrooms....
10992. rubberducky - 8/7/2000 11:15:36 AM
2nd Run Theater Update:
Also took in The Skulls yesterday at the buckapop place. Joshua Jackson continues to be my favorite piece of eye-candy. he's not perfect by any stretch, but has the boy-next-door-jock quality that i continually enjoy looking at.
the film was decent. it was PG-13 so it was pretty tame for a "thriller". predictable in most aspects but then, does that really surprise anyone? some decent performances nothing that really leaps out. and, i'm sorry, but Craig T. Nelson as a villain? i don't think so .. i mean, i keep expecting Jerry Van Dyke to leap out as an evil and bumbling underling with a heart of gold ... oh well, maybe it was just me.
this would be a good family friendly movie to rent when it comes out, imo. by "family friendly" i mean there's no nudity, precious little violence, and not a lotta bad, bad cursing. me, i'd get it just for the Joshua Jackson in tight rowing uniform scene....
10993. DaveM - 8/7/2000 11:17:26 AM
rd -
You make me feel cheap.
10994. CalGal - 8/7/2000 11:19:38 AM
Cellar,
I, too, first saw Alec Guinness in the movies you mention, and was equally surprised when I first saw him in a dramatic role. He always seemed to be a terrific guy, and along with Gielgud, was the last of that great generation of stage actors. Makes the loss seem much bigger when two of them check out so close together.
10995. DaveM - 8/7/2000 11:21:15 AM
This is Obi-wan, right? Can't we just wait for him to come back?
10996. rubberducky - 8/7/2000 11:23:06 AM
DaveM:
how's that?
are you a rower? do you look good in those tight, skimpy outfits?
10997. DaveM - 8/7/2000 11:26:49 AM
I've always fancied myself as having that "boy-next-door-jock" look.
10998. rubberducky - 8/7/2000 11:30:46 AM
ah
then i was right to attempt conversion. haha
just kidding
but, never feel "cheap", feel "empowered" hahaha
10999. DaveM - 8/7/2000 11:32:50 AM
I'll let someone else have this...
11000. JudithAtHome - 8/7/2000 11:37:11 AM
Well, did they?
11001. glendajean - 8/7/2000 11:57:28 AM
Judith, you millennial hawg!
11002. JudithAtHome - 8/7/2000 12:01:08 PM
Hey, I was gone for half an hour! I suggested they finish the run...can I help it if no one did? By the way, my bathrooms are spotless now!
11003. Cellar Door - 8/7/2000 12:12:46 PM
Ducky, you're a slut after my own heart.
11004. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 1:46:52 PM
I'm sad about Sir Alec being gone, although I don't think he has done any work the last few years. He was one of the great British character actors (I'm surprised nobody mentioned The Bridge Over the River Kwai). Others, also gone, were Sir John Gielgud, Richard Burton and, on his good days Peter O'Toole (but O'Toole still lives, I think, saw him on stage in London a couple of years ago, a wreck). If you ever have a chance, see 'Becket' with Burton as Thomas Becket and O'Toole as Henry II. They were both young then.
11005. christino - 8/7/2000 2:39:57 PM
Judith,
The trailer for What Lies Beneath is far more revealing than I'd like, but upon seeing the film it doesn't give away as much as we're inclined to believe. There are some good surprises left in the film. Still, if you don't like the actors it's probably not a good bet for you.
I enjoyed the film but not quite as much as Jack, I'd give it a B+ rental and a B/B- theater rating. I felt there was too much reliance on gimmicky tension building devices ---- can we dispense with the "standing-with-the-fridge-door-open-rooting-around-while-the-music-builds-to-slam-the-door-and-SUPRISE-there's-somebody-standing-there" scene? This has been done and done and done. It just makes me fidgety and pisses me off. Ditto the backwards walking thing. At least they didn't have a cat jump on anyone off a tall bookcase. Couldn't quite bring themselves to forego the "repeated-endangerment-caused-by-illogical-and-totally-brainless-actions-on-the-part-of-the-fleeing-protagonist" schtick, though so I had to mark down for that. I know some people like these devices so you can take all of this with a grain of salt if you're less bothered by them than I am.
On a more general note I felt that the film could have been stronger if they'd really let the audience believe that maybe Pfeiffer was losing her mind rather than communing with ghosts. There was plenty of room in the script for this and I got the impression that they might've intended to play up this angle a bit more and then changed their minds because of the success of recent horror/suspense films.
All in all it's a decent little film with some good twists and nice performances and a couple of really great scares achieved without "cheating". You won't feel ripped off if you pay full price.
11006. JudithAtHome - 8/7/2000 2:53:12 PM
I like the Gaslight style movies, myself. I'd rather see a good villian trying to convince some besotted woman that she's bonkers than see some pale imitation of the hunky hubbys former lover floating over the sidebaord. (Don't know if this is what happens in WLB; just general bitching about lame movie plots.)
11007. christino - 8/7/2000 3:12:02 PM
Judith,
You've just given me a flash memory of a movie with Mary Steinbergen that is something like that I think----I mean she's been abducted and they're trying to convince her she's crazy or someone else or something. It has Winter in the title and I remember it as being pretty good although this was a long time ago so it may not have been.
damn. I can't think what it is. Ring any bells?
11008. CalGal - 8/7/2000 3:14:15 PM
Spawn and I saw Space Cowboys over the weekend. No surprises here, all the joy to be found is in the execution and the performances of four major stars who know a thing or two about action heroism.
Actually two different movies--a comedy on the old geezers at Space Academy, and an action film once it reaches space. Both sections are solid, if neither reaches great heights. There are several very funny one-liners in the first half (Sutherland's on the Leno show is particularly good) and the scene where Garner "spots" Jones is a hoot, particularly Garner's final line. I thought the CGI effects in the second half were beautiful--I can't speak as to their realism.
Many points scored for a good portrayal of a career woman (Marcia Gay Harden)--a scientist, no less--who had a sex drive, a sex life, a great sense of humor, and an ability to do her job without sacrificing her professionalism to emotional involvement. She also had a disastrous haircut, but I'll still count it in the win column. William Devane has a good part, but Courtney Vance is wasted, which is sad.
It is worth noting that when the early events in this movie were taking place, James Garner was starring in Maverick, and Clint Eastwood was just about to start in Rawhide. Toss in Newman (whose resume might hold greater highs than these two, but also far more lows) and that's the short list of actors who were stars in the fifties and still viable A-list leads today. Neither Garner or Eastwood just go through the motions here (nor does Sutherland, for that matter, who came around a decade later), and it is a real treat to see them onscreen providing proof of just how they achieved that popularity. For that reason alone, I'd see it in the theaters rather than wait til video.
11009. christino - 8/7/2000 3:15:21 PM
A-ha! Dead of Winter
and of course it's Steenburgen. sheesh.
11010. christino - 8/7/2000 3:19:45 PM
Any word on HollowMan? I've heard nothing good at all--someone even said as bad as Battlefield Earth but I know that just isn't possible because I saw B.E. and NOTHING could be as bad as that.
I'm very disappointed because I really wanted this to be a decent flick. It looke really good in the trailer, but we know how misleading that can be.
11011. CalGal - 8/7/2000 3:20:21 PM
It did a lot of business, but every review I checked was negative.
11012. glendajean - 8/7/2000 3:23:50 PM
Eastwood was on Rawhide before Gardner and Maverick started (if memory serves me correctlyJ).
11013. CalGal - 8/7/2000 3:26:31 PM
I thought they both started around the same time, but I checked the IMDB which says that Rawhide started in 1959, and Maverick in 1957.
11014. CalGal - 8/7/2000 3:27:05 PM
And it's Garner (she sez pickily).
11015. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 3:37:42 PM
What with margins?
11016. CalGal - 8/7/2000 3:39:59 PM
Pelle,
I wasn't going through a full review of Guinness's movies--I thought he was superb in a number of dramatic roles. It is indication of the breadth of his talent that he was known to some people first as a wacky comedian.
11017. christino - 8/7/2000 3:40:55 PM
CG,
Yeah, I may have to see it anyway, though.
11018. glendajean - 8/7/2000 3:44:20 PM
Cal -- my memory from the late 50s is a little muddled. Sorry to question your authority. Maverick probably played on Waco tv in re-runs in the early to mid-60s.
The two teen-age toughs on tv around that time was Eastwood on Rawhide and a character named Cookie on 77 Sunset Strip.
11019. glendajean - 8/7/2000 3:45:42 PM
Not really toughs, but "pouty" boys.
11020. CalGal - 8/7/2000 3:49:04 PM
Oh, you should always question authority. Weren't you a teen of the 60s? Did you learn nothing?
I wasn't rebuking you, but rather establishing that I had been confused by that too, and that I had looked it up.
It's interesting to realize that Garner was a major star before Eastwood was. He just enjoyed the regular hours of TV more.
11021. JudithAtHome - 8/7/2000 4:33:31 PM
Kookie was on 77 Sunset Strip....played by Edd Burns.
11022. AytchMan - 8/7/2000 4:43:28 PM
Ohhhh, Kookie. I couldn't figure out who Cookie was. He wasn't really a pouty-boy, though. More of a Just-Cool-Enough-For-My-Shirt.
11023. PelleNilsson - 8/7/2000 5:01:13 PM
Even I know that Garner was a near-star before Eastwood. Clint was just a bit player when he came into Rawhide.
11024. Cellar Door - 8/7/2000 10:53:38 PM
Don't forget his breathless portrayal of Carol Channing's boyfriend in "The First Travelling Saleslady."
(A film that Channing refers to as "Death of a Saleslady.")
11025. Stumbo - 8/8/2000 1:10:07 AM
Cellar, #10987:
"Did you ever catch 'Kristy McNichol: The E! True Hollywood Story'?"
I taped it as I watched it, and had someone else tape a back-up just in case. ;-)
11026. rubberducky - 8/9/2000 8:56:32 AM
well, i was able to duck Coyote Ugly once but not twice. the new boy wanted to see it. i tried not to roll my eyes as i said "sure".
that's the key, btw, to seeing this movie. expect horrible dreck and come away from it thinking "hmm, that coulda been a lot worse". yes, it was cliché riddled pap that was sappy and condescending, but then everyone (except for Goodman) was very pretty to look at. especially her boyfriend. yowza! whatta cutie. also, this stunning lead girl (or whoever sang for her, if not her) did a great job singing - she has a wonderful voice!
anyway, the story centers on a New Jersey gal going to New York (because, evidently, they aren't the same "new" state - as if anyone cared) to be a song writer. only, gasp she has stage fright that her yummy boyfriend has to fuck out of her - or something.
fast forward past the slutty-bartenders (the mean bitch one, the tramp one, the owner-bitch one, the black one)-with-a-heart-of-gold and you have something that appeals to ... straight couples from the looks of the audience. oh well. if you are a straight man and owe your wife/girlfriend/mistress for sitting thru so many shitty "summer blockbusters", then this is a good make-up movie. you won't hate it. you won't like it, but then, do you expect to?
11027. Indiana Jones - 8/9/2000 9:07:41 AM
(Click on photo)
*sniff*
Michael Douglas is a peckerhead.
11028. Cellar Door - 8/9/2000 10:19:36 AM
A peckerhead with a sagging ass (Didja see "Basic Instinct"?)
The vocals in "Coyote Ugly" were by Leeann Rimes.
11029. rubberducky - 8/9/2000 10:29:49 AM
cellar:
she did put in an appearance at the end and sing with the main actress, but i don't think she sang for the lead ... didn't sound like her. and then her singing with herself? that'd be too odd even for a chick movie ...
11030. JudithAtHome - 8/9/2000 10:45:30 AM
Ducks...Are you talking about Piper Paribo or whatever her name is? She didn't do her own singing; she doesn't even do her own thinking, if her talk show appearences are any indication. I've heard her answer the question of where she got that name the exact same way at least 4 times in as many shows. Including the same gushing laugh after she says "My parents were hippie types who came up with something different that their friends hadn't already used....yuck yuck yuck."
Of course, she is only a teenager so I shouldn't expect Dorothy Parker-like witticisms but a little variety in delivery might help.
11031. rubberducky - 8/9/2000 10:52:44 AM
J@H:
Piper - that's her
so, she has difficultly looking like she's not reading a cue card irl as well as on the screen? what a complete surprise
11032. JudithAtHome - 8/9/2000 11:00:53 AM
Ducks....she's young; she still has 2 years of pseudo fame until she fades and becomes an answer in Trivia Pursuit.
11033. Cellar Door - 8/9/2000 11:02:44 AM
Right along with Irene Cara and Marisa Tomei.
11034. JudithAtHome - 8/9/2000 11:20:28 AM
...and Rachel Cook.
11035. Cellar Door - 8/9/2000 11:42:11 AM
Don't forget Alicia Silverstone.
11036. glendajean - 8/9/2000 2:44:15 PM
Sean Young
11037. CalGal - 8/9/2000 2:49:13 PM
Debra Winger.
11038. christino - 8/9/2000 2:49:57 PM
Ducky,
LeAnn Rimes did the singing. She was recently explaining in an interview how many recordings they had to do because the execs kept saying "You sound too much like yourself". She was like "Sorry, but what did you expect?" I'm sure it would be gratifying to her to know that she pulled it off.
11039. glendajean - 8/9/2000 3:03:05 PM
I highly recommend the DVD version of Young Frankenstein..
Mel Brooks does the commentary. He starts out in a high pitched, stilted voice, acting as if he was afraid of the microphone. Ends up telling lots of funny stories.
11040. CalGal - 8/9/2000 3:10:57 PM
Ack. I forgot to add it to my queue. Thanks for reminding me.
I'm watching LA Story in the evenings in Ohio--I just wish he'd centered it in God's True Country, but this is close enough when you're homesick. Funny movie.
11041. AytchMan - 8/9/2000 11:07:51 PM
Survivor Update:
Let's bid a fond farewell to Colleen as she sinks into the western sunset, much the worse for wear. It's a clean sweep for Team Moter -- no one picked Colleen to last. The point projections, just in from our relay station on Tonga:
judith -- semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win -- 3.00 points.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win -- 1.20.
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win -- 3.00.
aytchman -- Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win -- 2.40.
diva -- Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win -- 1.20.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win -- 3.00.
calgal -- Kelly, Greg and Sean with Greg to win -- 1.20.
marshame -- Greg, Gervase and Sean, with Sean to win -- 1.80.
It's starting to get a little lonely in those Tribal Councils, ain't it?
11042. Cellar Door - 8/9/2000 11:21:49 PM
11043. JudithAtHome - 8/11/2000 11:27:08 AM
We'll be seeing a lot more of the lovely Colleen...she is probably being bombarded with offers of commercials and her own sit-com even as I type these words. Very at ease and natural on the talk shows, very warm and fuzzy and just too cute for words.
11044. CalGal - 8/11/2000 12:36:19 PM
Has anyone seen Picnic at Hanging Rock?
11045. Cellar Door - 8/11/2000 1:19:47 PM
Yes.
It's rather nice. Sort of a Val Lewton movie in blinding sunshine.
11046. AytchMan - 8/11/2000 1:48:38 PM
We'll be seeing a lot more of the lovely Colleen
A little too sly there, young lady. Along with Jenna, she's evaluating an offer from Playboy (as I suspect you know).
11047. CalGal - 8/11/2000 1:51:11 PM
Cellar,
It is exceptionally lush and beautiful. It makes almost no sense at all, and is very hard to follow, but it is the first movie I have ever wanted to see while stoned.
And someone, somewhere in that movie has a thing for just barely pubescent young girls. Phew.
11048. Cellar Door - 8/11/2000 1:54:52 PM
Very much a Jack Vincennes special.
It was based on a "true legend." Some accounts even had the girls abducted by flying saucers.
But basically it was just a case of adolescent sexual hysteria.
11049. JudithAtHome - 8/11/2000 2:01:37 PM
H-man:
If she tumbles for the Playboy gig, they will have to work overtime airbrushing those legs. I felt so sorry for the deluded little moppet, thinking those scars will go away in 3 years. She'll have those "battle scars" for life.
11050. CalGal - 8/11/2000 2:20:09 PM
Cellar,
Yes, they were definitely his kind of chicks. All they needed was the plaid skirt.
I thought the movie made it clear that the girls were definitely feeling the heat, but I think their disappearance would still be odd, if it were based on a true story. I believe the author has been accused of being in the throes of something herself.
I found the most painful part to be the charity case. Very difficult to watch.
Still, I'm watching it for the second time, and I really do recommend it for the gorgeous cinematography--and I don't usually notice things like that.
This was the film that put Peter Weir on the map, yes? As well as Aussie flicks in general.
11051. Cellar Door - 8/11/2000 2:56:18 PM
Correct.
11052. Cellar Door - 8/12/2000 10:36:21 AM
11053. CalGal - 8/12/2000 10:39:57 AM
I thought her best movies were her last ones--I'm fond of Farmer's Daughter and of course, The Bishop's Wife is one of the best Christmas movies ever made.
I forgot about her love child with Gable.
11054. Cellar Door - 8/12/2000 10:58:47 AM
There was a whole book about that. Plus plenty of hints earlier on. One of Louella's books lays it all out as a "blind item" you'd have to be blind not to pick up on.
11055. CalGal - 8/12/2000 11:03:12 AM
The book was written by her daughter, I think. But one look at the daughter makes it pretty compelling.
11056. Cellar Door - 8/12/2000 11:04:52 AM
She's her spitting image.
Plus she has her father's ears.
11057. CalGal - 8/12/2000 11:06:42 AM
Gable always wanted a kid--did he ever know that she was his daughter? I know he died before his son was born.
11058. Cellar Door - 8/12/2000 11:18:16 AM
According to Judy Lewis he knew!
11059. CalGal - 8/12/2000 1:17:35 PM
Cellar,
Ingenious explanation of the mystery in Picnic at Hanging Rock--based on the book, not the movie.
11060. Cellar Door - 8/12/2000 1:29:05 PM
It makes perfect sense.
And that's probably why she took it out.
Once a mystery is solved it's no longer mysterious. This is especially true for movies where atmosphere is all. "Blade Runner," for example, consists of a series of rather straightforward events. But the film itself is anything but straightforward.
11061. CalGal - 8/12/2000 1:35:10 PM
I think I'll have to read the book.
I suppose it's in keeping with the mystery that the DVD has no extras, but I'd love for some commentary.
11062. LadyChaos - 8/13/2000 9:47:49 AM
What Lies Beneath
Robert Zemeckis could turn the making of a ham sandwich into an interesting cinematic experience. His student films were required viewing when I was at USC. One of those films, an eight-minute, non-dialogue short called "The Lift," showed us the at-first humorous, but finally chilling story of a middle-aged man who is cruelly murdered by an ancient elevator. I had never quite seen this dark side of Zemeckis in his feature work, until now.
In What Lies Beneath, he is clearly having fun with the cinematic form while giving us a story that had spouse and I on edge right until the end. Film buffs will enjoy numerous odes to Hitchcock throughout the movie. Indeed, some shots are almost direct visual quotes from such films as Vertigo, Rear Window, and Psycho (the music is an all-too-obvious rip-off of Psycho, too, but a well-done rip-off). The story itself is sort of like "Rear Window Meets Fatal Attraction Meets Vertigo Meets Psycho" -- while the elements are not terribly original, Zemeckis weaves them into something engaging.
Particularly engaging was Michelle Pfeiffer's performance. The film requires her to play on several different levels, and I can't recall seeing her in anything recently where she was so interesting to watch. Harrison Ford sets up all the cues to his character pretty much by the numbers, although being as he is Harrison Ford, one doesn't mind so much.
11063. LadyChaos - 8/13/2000 9:48:13 AM
cont'd
The scary stuff is well done. Zemeckis provides us a fun-house set, full of mirrors and doors (and one pretty damn frightening bathtub) that you just know are going to reveal something scary at every turn of the camera. Rarely, though, do these reveal shots happen right where we expect them. Obviously, Zemeckis is aware that he is dealing with a savvy audience, and he keeps us second-guessing throughout as to where the "gotcha" moments are going to occur.
But even though we enjoyed the ride, I felt cheated afterward. The artifice of the film's elements were too strained in hindsight, and you might find yourself realizing that much of the film's tension was sustained more by apprehension of the next "gotcha" than by real interest in the story and characters themselves. Some of the clues in the film go "clunk" when you hear them, such as when we learn that a cellular phone won't work until one gets to the "middle of the bridge." Some loose ends were never quite tied up. For example, a past car accident that you are led to believe is going to be significant ends up being little more than an excuse for some temporary amnesia.
All in all, I recommend it as a good date movie.
11064. CalGal - 8/13/2000 10:25:52 AM
That's you and Jack saying it's worth a look. However, Jack is under permanent suspicion since he approved of the dreck known as Elizabeth. Your views?
BTW, I rented The Caine Mutiny on a whim. Rather boring movie, consisting of several amazing performances. McMurray's bad guy is kind of de rigeur until you realize that he pretty much defined the standard for "snake in the grass". Van Johnson always surprises me at how well he plays military men. Jose Ferrer is solid, too.
But the reason to check it out if it ever shows up on TV again is for Humphrey Bogart, who pretty much defines bravery as an actor by taking on the part. And he is rewarded for his courage--it's a brilliant, sad performance.
The major flaw in the film is the time it wastes on the Young Officer, Robert Francis, ex-mama's boy, torn between grasping mama and good girl nightclub singer. It was so bad that I angrily looked up Francis in the IMD, to see if he had a deservedly short career.
He died in a plane crash.
Heavens, my punishment would have been milder.
11065. LadyChaos - 8/13/2000 10:32:14 AM
CalGal,
I'm not sure if the question is directed at me, but I am on the record as having called Elizabeth one of the worst pieces of crap that I've seen in recent years, perhaps second only to the DiCaprio version of Man in the Iron Mask. I wasn't able to sit through either film.
11066. CalGal - 8/13/2000 10:37:31 AM
Hmm, well then. Both of you speaking well of What Lies Beneath means I might go check it out. You at least are clear of the grey cloud of Elizabeth-approval.
BTW, all, I haven't updated MoteMovies in a while because my main computer is at the shop with several dozen files awaiting uploading. It will happen, one of these days.
11067. stostosto - 8/13/2000 6:24:51 PM
The 1987(?) Kevin Costner/Gene Hackman/Sean Young action thriller "No Way Out" was on television last night, and I saw it for about the fourth time. It's a classic. The most effective film of that genre I have ever seen. I have always found the ending idiotic, though.
11068. AceofSpades - 8/13/2000 8:56:33 PM
No Way Out is based upon a nifty little novel called "The Big Clock," by Kenneth Fearing, which is just as good (but in a different way) as the movie. Brief and very suspenseful. Recommended.
11069. AceofSpades - 8/13/2000 8:58:50 PM
"No Way Out" is a fucking great movie, by the way.
I think the best scene is where Costner and a naval investigator go to the apartment of Sean Young's African-immigrant roommate, and Costner demands that she tell him who Sean Young's been dating.
Of course, it's Costner that's dating Young, so the African woman is pretty perplexed. And Costner is of course psychically beaming her the message: "Please! Don't say who!"
Good stuff.
11070. PelleNilsson - 8/14/2000 6:06:40 AM
The Economist's obituary of Sir Alec.
11071. stostosto - 8/14/2000 7:27:16 AM
Ace
I'll check that novel out some time.
My personal favourite scene is the one where Costner is chased by a security guy who has smelled something fishy about his behaviour, and is suddenly faced with a checkpoint where people leaving the Pentagon are screened. The agent yells at them to seize Costner, but he on the spur of the moment turns around and quite simply out-yells him. The confused screening people are persuaded to grab the security guy, and when he starts to protest, Costner resolutely kicks him in the groin. Ummmphhh. Very gratifying.
11072. stostosto - 8/14/2000 7:30:53 AM
Um, just to make it clear: One identifies with Costner in that scene (as in the whole film - except for the silly ending, of course). I am not a masochist getting a kick out of a kick.
11073. rubberducky - 8/14/2000 9:02:23 AM
Video Update Part I:
rented Some Girls (although it is listed as Men in the imdb). i thought this was a pretty decent movie. the plot is centered around 4 20 something females in LA as they look for "love". if, as has been suggested, this is how women actually behave in real life, then my sympathy for straight guys has increased about 10 fold.
these are some screwed up broads. i wonder if that was the entire point in this dramady ... i ask because another one doesn't seem to be forthcoming. at times confusing, at times interesting, this movie had some interesting twists. the most bizarre thing i couldn't wrap my brain around was the fact that Juliette Lewis got so many guys. i just do not see what is attractive about this girl. and true to form, she's the same whiny bitch she is in every movie i've ever seen her in.
anyway, i wouldn't really recommend this flick unless you are having some self-esteem issues or perhaps think that your love life is wacked and will never get better ... this should perk you right up.
11074. rubberducky - 8/14/2000 9:13:50 AM
Video Update Part II:
rented Frogs for Snakes which purported to be a Pulp Fiction style thriller. eh, not so much. the opening scene was very good and gave me high hopes, but the rest of the movie didn't live up to it.
this movie centers on "collectors" for the mob ... that don't kill ... that all they want to do is .... um, act. yes, they act and shoot people to get onstage and such in real life. if this is what it takes, then i'm thinking it's not worth it.
anyway, this film takes way to long to get to the end and in between are a lot of quirky Tarantino-esque bits, but not enough to satisfy me. it tried to mimic the laid back style and blurrly morals of Pulp - and thank god they stopped just before they presented the movie out of chronological sequence.
in short, if you want a Pulp Fiction style movie - rent Pulp Fiction again - it, at least, stands up to repeat viewings.
11075. Thoughtful - 8/14/2000 9:25:19 AM
Last night Bravo had Billy Joel on "inside the actors studio." I always enjoy his stuff and found him to be entertaining.
Is anyone familiar with Miami 2017? It always reminded me of Atlas Shrugged -- lights going out on Broadway and such...does anyone know if that was his inspiration?
11076. JudithAtHome - 8/14/2000 9:58:05 AM
Ducks:
I thought Frogs For Snakes was hysterical...I loved the fact that all the hit women and men wanted to be ACT-TORS! and kept talking about motivation and flinging bits of theatre theory back and forth. And the tryouts for the guy who was considered the best acting coach were too, too funny. It was a quirky little movie and I really enjoyed it, even though it was uneven and somewhat derivative.
11077. rubberducky - 8/15/2000 9:55:51 AM
J@H
i can understand your POV, but it just rang as hollow to me. they tried, really tried, to generate the same chaos that Pulp had - the first scene being exhibit A. the random violence and killing of seemingly key players at random intervals in the film were well done, but it all came off as contrived to me. and don't even get me started on the acting thing - that was just beyond dumb, imo.
11078. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2000 10:06:25 AM
Ducks:
Yes, but the acting being bad was part of the joke, to me...these were bad actors acting badly and trying to become actors in bad acting classes by acting badly. It was just too funny...
11079. rubberducky - 8/15/2000 12:56:23 PM
this is genurally bad news:
["American High''] was flunked by Fox for low ratings; in its place Wednesday night is a rerun of the animated comedy "Futurama.''
11080. rubberducky - 8/15/2000 12:57:11 PM
er, genuinely bad news
sheesh
11081. rubberducky - 8/15/2000 12:57:37 PM
dammit!
11082. JudithAtHome - 8/15/2000 2:10:24 PM
I hate it that they are only giving a series a 2 week chance to make it....and this, after running it against what is basically the number one lead-in spot on CBS. It truly sucks.
11083. christino - 8/15/2000 2:43:17 PM
I have some bad though hardly surprising news: Bless This Child is very very bad.
Too lazy to do any research and apparently employing no real Catholics whatsoever in the creation of the script the writers of Bless This Child turn out an clunky, implausible star vehicle that falls woefully flat.
The best that can be said about Kim Basinger is that she has beautfiul hair. The untouchable quality that worked so well for her in L.A. Confidential only serves to make Basinger seem disconnected and inaccessible in everything else she does.
There are a couple of good scares in the film, but Rufus Sewell is only laughable as an evil Scientologist-type self-help tycoon in the service of Satan. Hell, who wouldn't be laughable in such a role? Jimmy Smits gets to play generi-fed in a criminally underdeveloped part.
What's left? Well, it's a God versus Satan movie so we must have nuns in habits because everyone knows it's not a really important battle against evil unless everyone is in uniform. Let's not bother with researching any specific mythology or scriptural texts when we talk about Satanic cults. No one will notice if we talk about 16th century druidic runes while pointing to zodiacial glyphs and what looks like the Underwood deviled-ham pitchfork.
Make sure to have an appearance by a renegade Jesuit priest (Ian Holm in possibly the most embarassing three minutes of his life) and a cute little girl to play the new Messiah. Let every scrape be escaped by divine intervention (more on this in a minute) and then get some hokey CGI demons for your finale where "Love conquers all".
Yes, a hug can stop the destruction of the world.
Bless This Child forces us to wonder: if angels can make an appearance 92 times in a movie and stop something terrible from occurring why couldn't they have just shoved Rufus Sewell off a subway platform to begin with and save everyone else the trouble?
11084. christino - 8/15/2000 2:52:21 PM
On a better note the evening wasn't entirely wasted since I've been having nightmares for two days due to the trailer for the re-release of The Exorcist.
Still the most terrifying movie ever made----people were covering their eyes and turning away during the trailer, whimpering and moaning in their seats and clutching their dates.
There is apparently some restored footage in the re-release. One such scene ends up in the trailer. The image of Linda Blair scurrying spider-like down the staircase has been giving me hot prickles up the back of my neck when I turn out the lights at night.
Somebody alert Jack. We're in for a hell of a treat!
11085. Cellar Door - 8/15/2000 6:06:03 PM
Some treat. I've always hated "The Exorcist." It was devised to make Catholic schoolgirls feel guilty about sex in the worst possible way.
Of course I've no doubt this made things easier for Jack. He'd score, look at them with the devilish glare of his, and never have to see them ever again!
11087. glendajean - 8/15/2000 6:08:26 PM
Esquire Magazine has an article listed on it's cover saying it has the inside store on the Exorcist. I hope Jack sees it.
11088. CalGal - 8/15/2000 6:08:31 PM
Where did GJ's post go?
11089. CalGal - 8/15/2000 6:09:03 PM
Oh, there it is. But 186 is missing.
11090. Cellar Door - 8/15/2000 6:09:56 PM
186 is missing?
IT'S THE WORK OF THE DEVIL!!!
11091. LadyChaos - 8/15/2000 6:55:20 PM
I can't believe that cllrdr really hates "The Exorcist". I always thought it was one of the best-crafted films of the 70s. I actually wrote a paper on it in Drew Casper's class on sci-fi, horror, and fantasy at USC, and viewed it about twenty times.
11092. CalGal - 8/15/2000 7:11:38 PM
We discussed this last year in some detail, as part of the "festival":
Open Discussion. I never broke it up into individual reviews because it all hung together so nicely. I also haven't converted it to MoteMovie format yet.
Jack Vincennes' (109109/Niner) rather impressive essay on the background of The Exorcist and The Exorcist "Curse"
11093. Cellar Door - 8/15/2000 7:33:57 PM
I wrote a lengthy attack on "The Exorcist" back in 1976 for"December" the late,lamented Chicago-based "magazine of the arts and opinion."
It was called "The Cinema of Gangrene."
11094. LadyChaos - 8/15/2000 8:17:29 PM
There was one shot early in the film which I thought strongly suggested that Father Merrin (Von Sydow) was gay.
11095. Cellar Door - 8/15/2000 8:19:25 PM
Hmmm. Never occurred to me.
But then all Catholic priests are gay to me anyway.
11096. CalGal - 8/15/2000 11:06:09 PM
Hey, I may have just found the show that replaces NYPD Blue on Tuesdays. Did anyone see "Bull"? Great cast, reasonably good premise, moved well.
I also saw "Judging Amy" for the first time--it's not all that terrible a show.
11097. EricCartman - 8/16/2000 12:32:50 AM
In case y'all missed it the first time, they just re-ran my appearance on Win Ben $tein's Money a little while ago. Since it's Comedy Central, that means chances are they'll rerun it again.
"How will we know it's you, Cart?" I hear you asking. Well, that's a good question. Since I'm a dead ringer for Mel Gibson, but a foot taller and more muscular, that makes me very easy to spot.
Seriously, go on the Comedy Central site (yes, www.comedycentral.com) and there's a schedule section for all their series, indexed by episode number. The illustrious Cartman episode number is #4043. With Labor Day weekend coming up and all, there's a pretty good chance that it could get re-run then again. And they also do four reruns back-to-back on Sunday mornings, so my ep will probably be on this coming Sunday as well.
11098. CalGal - 8/16/2000 12:41:45 AM
He's very cute. But he missed Spellbound!
11099. EricCartman - 8/16/2000 12:54:23 AM
(blush) I still haven't seen Spellbound, you know. I'm probably embarrassed to, subconsciously.
Incidentally, the Shakespeare guy that beat me in the second round of the game had an article printed in the Sunday SF Chronicle just a couple weeks ago, about his experience acting in a Harold Pinter play. Pretty decent writer. I was hoping he'd have written about his game-show experience, the wuss.
11100. MsIvoryTower - 8/16/2000 9:29:13 AM
Okay, confession time.
I am addicted to West Wing. Anyone else out there sucking up this pulp?
And I've been glued to my set on Thursdays all summer catching A&E's rerun of Murder One. I'm in love with Teddy.
11101. Cellar Door - 8/16/2000 9:31:17 AM
Saw "Godzilla 200." Utterly enchanting. None of this digital crap -- it's a guy in a rubber suit, the way nature intended. Wonderfully insane English-dubbing of Japanese actors. And the effects aren't at all cheesy. There's an air attack on ol' Goddy as he wades through a river bed near downtown Tokyo that's better than anything I've seen in action films in some time. It ends,quite traidionally on a set of ruined sections of what's supposedto be Tokyo, but might be more properly described (cinematically speaking) as Godzillaville. He's fighting off a space creature (long buried under the sea and inadvertently awakened by a team of scientists who think it's a rock) that first appears as a giant flying Elsa Peretti brooch -- before transmorgrifying into a monster worthy of doing battle with our hero.
The kids at the All-Media screening were delighted by it no end.
11102. CalGal - 8/16/2000 9:59:53 AM
Ms, as I just mentioned in the Cafe, a good number of us watch and discuss all the time. I'll see if I can find some of the more recent conversations.
I never got too into Murder One, but if you like Stanley Tucci, check out that Bull tv show. I quite enjoyed the first one.
11103. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2000 10:56:16 AM
Teddy is Daniel Benzali on Murder One....but of course, you knew that! I think this week is the finale of Murder One. I have conveniently forgotten how it ends so I'm looking forward to it.
MsIT:
I like Teddy, too....something about a bald headed man with a sensuous voice and suits which exude power....ummmmmmmm!
11104. Thoughtful - 8/16/2000 11:53:07 AM
I liked murder 1, but just as in the prime time broadcast, if you miss an episode or two, you're lost. I'd have to make an effort to record it and watch it in order. The other thing that always bothered me about the show was Teddy's wife -- they just seemed wrong for each other -- terribly wrong.
11105. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2000 12:15:44 PM
Thoughtful:
No kidding...and I hated her when she started whining about him working so much and then seperated because he was "changed"...she certainly didn't mind all the perks of a high profile lawyers existance before, did she?
11106. Indiana Jones - 8/16/2000 12:40:02 PM
Frodo lives -- on the big screen
11107. theDiva - 8/16/2000 1:09:58 PM
Missy
Tobey is my new Love God. And yes, I am sucking up the pulp, even as I'm yelling at the TV 'WHAT LEFTIST PROPAGANDA!' I'm hopeless.
11108. PelleNilsson - 8/16/2000 1:17:21 PM
I doubt I will see the Lord of the Ring even if it gets rave reviews. I think everybody who has ended up fascinated by the story (as I have, I re-read it every few years) has a mental picture of the characters and the settings that would ineviatbly be destroyed by the film version.
11109. Fraaankster - 8/16/2000 1:23:50 PM
Judith,
( I know you occasionally watch it, and now whenever I see it I think of you )
Did you happen to see Politically Incorrect last night ? I was flipping through channels last night and caught just enough of it ( two seconds maybe ? ) to see that Joan Rivers has had another face lift. I swear, if that woman's face gets pulled anymore, her eyes are gonna end up behind her ears. She looked really freaky, and to say that about Rivers is saying a lot ... Can OCD apply to cosmetic surgery ? I guess it can.
Msit,
I won't watch West Wing because I know I'll get hooked. Geez, I get hooked on shows such as, The Pretender and Now and Again.
Toy check
11110. Fraaankster - 8/16/2000 1:25:42 PM
Oh, the show ended with Alec Baldwin telling the audience not to listen to any of the Nader Bull(bleep) and vote for Al Gore.
Shoot, I use to like Alec Baldwin. ;-)
11111. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2000 1:27:45 PM
Frankster:
We are talking about face lifts over in Tunnel of Love....
11112. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2000 1:28:15 PM
oooooooo, I love my last post #!!!!
11113. theDiva - 8/16/2000 1:29:51 PM
cool snag....
11114. christino - 8/16/2000 1:30:41 PM
Can OCD apply to cosmetic surgery?
Two words:
Michael Jackson
11115. theDiva - 8/16/2000 1:31:56 PM
remember when he was a hottie?
11116. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2000 1:32:44 PM
Remember when he was black?
11117. Fraaankster - 8/16/2000 1:33:47 PM
Chris,
I thought Jackson's (skin bleaching) was part legit, because of some "skin disease". That still doesn't answer the nose job, though.
11118. theDiva - 8/16/2000 1:34:20 PM
Frank
I think he wears makeup.
11119. Fraaankster - 8/16/2000 1:51:08 PM
I remember comedian, George Lopez, once posing the question, What color is Jackson today, by the way ? His color looks like the same color one uses to paint one's living room. Some off white...
11120. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2000 2:05:38 PM
Yeah, that color is usually called "Ambience" or "Tranquil".
11121. janjon - 8/16/2000 2:07:35 PM
or Wannabe.
Sorry.
I'll leave.
11122. Cellar Door - 8/16/2000 2:07:44 PM
Jackson's "skin disease" was about as legitimate as the children he claims to have sired.
11123. PelleNilsson - 8/16/2000 2:18:51 PM
Cellar
Your assistance is needed in International. Here.
11124. christino - 8/16/2000 2:40:33 PM
Supposedly he has impatigo. If that were the case however it seems more likely that he would cover the white areas and match them to the darker hue of his natural skin rather than painting his whole body to match a white patch.
11125. janjon - 8/16/2000 2:42:01 PM
Or, maybe cows are among the animals he loves so much.
11126. glendajean - 8/16/2000 2:42:49 PM
it seems more likely ....
that one wouldn't have sex with little boys, live in a Never-Never land, or marry the daughter of Elvis Presley.
11127. theDiva - 8/16/2000 2:42:49 PM
vitiligo.
11128. JudithAtHome - 8/16/2000 2:42:54 PM
I thought it was vitaligo or something like that...impatigo is a parasitical disease you can get from cats.
11129. Cellar Door - 8/16/2000 2:43:02 PM
No dear. He just desperately wants to be white. He's literally covered in make-up.
11130. theDiva - 8/16/2000 2:43:44 PM
that's toxoplasmosis.
11131. theDiva - 8/16/2000 2:44:09 PM
impitego is a skin infection.
11132. theDiva - 8/16/2000 2:44:28 PM
that noone is able to spell, apparently, myself included.
11133. Cellar Door - 8/16/2000 2:44:50 PM
And he does have sex with little boys. Lots of them.
Once they sprout public hair, they get tossed.
11134. PsychProf - 8/16/2000 2:45:30 PM
Nonsense...he just hears a different drummer.
11135. janjon - 8/16/2000 2:46:15 PM
try impetigo.
11136. PsychProf - 8/16/2000 2:46:25 PM
in response to 11129
11137. janjon - 8/16/2000 2:47:54 PM
Once they sprout public hair, they get tossed.
So, now he's being accused of midget-tossing too?
Say, if your allegation is correct, why hasn't the State of California stepped in?
11138. theDiva - 8/16/2000 2:55:09 PM
Janjon
no thanks, I hear it's hell to get rid of.
11139. rubberducky - 8/16/2000 2:58:22 PM
because someone asked somewhere:
'West Wing' Producer Gives Back Family TV Award
11140. Cellar Door - 8/16/2000 3:00:57 PM
"Say, if your allegation is correct, why hasn't the State of California stepped in?"
Cause money talks and bullshit walks. The state thought it had a case with Jordie Chandler, but Jackson and his lawyer Bert Fields, were able to buy the Chandlers off. The result? No charges were filed.
11141. christino - 8/16/2000 3:04:39 PM
Oh goodness. I'm glad I didn't talk about impetigo around anyone but you guys. Thanks for the correction I definitely had it confused!
11142. theDiva - 8/16/2000 3:14:57 PM
Chris
When you're a mother, you pick up all kinds of information at playgroup.
11143. MsIvoryTower - 8/17/2000 11:11:10 AM
Judith, Thoughtful
I'm totally hooked on Murder One, must be that I can actually follow some of the legal jargon now because the first time around I had the same experience as you Thoughtful, lost if I missed one episode. Now, however, I find the story easy to follow, even if I've missed one week. Probably the most important episodes were the beginning ones, where the basic plot gets set up.
Anyway, I've enjoyed it tremendously. I wanna be like Teddy when I grow up to be a real lawyer.
Diva,
Toby has something, eh? Did you catch last nights episode? Nice masculine posturing there. Very satisfying......
11144. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2000 12:31:41 PM
H-man!!!!!
Where are you with the Survivor updates?????
11145. christino - 8/17/2000 2:09:08 PM
The girls are goners. It'll come down to Rudy and Rich. If Kelly
doesn't win immunity next time she's out. If she wins immunity Sue is out. Rudy will win because no way in hell is the "jury" going to pick Rich over him.
Unless of course Rich pulls a double cross and keeps Sue on his side in which case they could dump Rudy. If that happens I vote they shoot Rich and Susan and divide the million among the other players.
11146. PsychProf - 8/17/2000 2:20:39 PM
Haha...CO...fascinating predictions...here is what some of thought 5 or 6 weeks ago...Message # 11041
11147. glendajean - 8/17/2000 2:32:35 PM
I've come back around to root for Richard. First, he plays the villain role nicely, which makes the show more interestingly. Second, his cohorts are so dumb they couldn't win a high school homeroom representative election. My word. I kept thinking after sweet wonderful Gretchen was kicked off that everybody would wise up and understand that grouped votes are more powerful that stream of consciousness "I'll vote for n because I don't like him." or worse, Sean's alphabet strategy. (BTW, Sean has a nice chest and stomach).
If I heard Gervase say one more time, "I'm a smart man. " I thought I was going to scream. Smart people figure out when there's still time and come up with a counter strategy.
Last night, Rich said he wanted to get back to the people he chose to be around. Looking at who's left with him on the beach, who can blame him. If I sound cranky, I liked Pagong tribe much better and continued to scream at their stupidity over not dealing with the alliance. Hrrmph.
11148. OhioSTOPAS - 8/17/2000 2:32:44 PM
"Rudy will win because no way in hell is the "jury" going to pick
Rich over him."
I agree that Rudy would win a Rich-Rudy final. I also think he'd win a Susan-Rudy final. That is why I think if it gets down to a threesome of Susan, Rich and Rudy, Susan and Rich will gang up and vote Rudy out.
Rudy isn't going to be in the final two. The others (including Kelly) won't let it happen.
11149. OhioSTOPAS - 8/17/2000 2:34:38 PM
I guess I've admitted I'm watching "Survivor" . . .
I'm reminded of the "Seinfeld" episode where Jerry was hooked on "Melrose Place" but was embarrassed to admit watching it.
11150. glendajean - 8/17/2000 2:47:46 PM
You trashy dog.
I sometimes watch Big Brother, too. Last night they kicked out the emotionally needy Karen, a chain smoking, 40 something wife and mother of 4 from Columbus, Ohio. Since the show has been on the air, she has admitted that her husband is cruen and cold, she said several times she was leaving him, that she had an affair 12 years ago with her stepfather's nephew, and she has angrily struck out at housemates that she thought had voted against her (she was wrong) at the same time that she freely criticizes other members.
11151. glendajean - 8/17/2000 2:48:08 PM
cruen = cruel
11152. OhioSTOPAS - 8/17/2000 2:50:31 PM
Karen is from Columbus?
Not that I care, since I DON'T watch "Big Brother".
Honest.
11153. glendajean - 8/17/2000 2:53:37 PM
Oops. Columbus, Indiana.
11154. OhioSTOPAS - 8/17/2000 2:54:26 PM
There are OTHER Columbuses?? Wow.
11155. glendajean - 8/17/2000 2:55:20 PM
Oh, confess it Ohio. It's true you didn't really win "Millionaire," and that you don't live in a columned house at the end of a long tree lined alleé. You live in a
TRAILOR HOUSE.
And you regularly watch Jerry Springer. (Required of all Ohioans,bts).
11156. glendajean - 8/17/2000 2:55:41 PM
bts = btw
11157. glendajean - 8/17/2000 3:04:12 PM
Columbus, Indiana, 45 miles or so south of Indy, the home of Cummins Diesal Engines and J Irwin Miller, an enlightened fellow whose foundation pays the architectural fees for public buildings. This non-assuming town of 30,000 people is chocked full of contemporary architecture.
I've visited it a couple of times and I SAW A VIDEO ABOUT MILLER (that's to make the comment pertinent to this thread).
11158. christino - 8/17/2000 3:04:42 PM
PP,
Yeah, I didn't actually pay much attention to the stuff until just recently so I missed out on the original vote.
Ohio,
A lot still depends on the Kelly-Sue dynamic. If they can patch things up then the girls might have a chance, but I don't think they will. Kelly has to win immunity or she's off for sure. If she manages to get immunity then she needs to convince Sue to side with her for at least one more vote so that they can get rid of Richard.
I just don't think Kelly is going to get over her pettiness enough to not vote Sue off. What's more, I'm sure Sue knows it. She doesn't trust Kelly, in fact she has a major grudge against Kelly so it isn't likely that she'll team up with her when she could far easier team with Rich and get rid of both Kelly and Rudy.
The question is going to be who Rich teams with. I'd say his best bet is to pick Sue because then he's got a fighting chance at the end. Sue gives him a run for his money in the "most disliked" categorey whereas Rudy is nearly guaranteed to beat him in a popularity contest.
Rudy is a sexist, biggoted homophobe, but he's not a liar or a backstabber and I think in the end that's what counts here. The other three really ought to get rid of him to make themselves look more attractive, but I don't know that they necessarily see that. I can't imagine that Rich doesn't see it, but he may feel that he can't trust teaming with the women. I don't know how good his relationship is with Sue.
11159. christino - 8/17/2000 3:06:38 PM
GJ,
Was that the woman crying in the clips "Please, I beg of you to vote me out," ?
11160. glendajean - 8/17/2000 3:23:01 PM
Yes. An emotional mess.
11161. christino - 8/17/2000 3:23:37 PM
My roommate isn't watching Big Brother so I've managed to stay clear of it.
11162. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2000 3:31:26 PM
I love Big Brother and am allied with a group of true addicts over on TT who have just issued an invitation to Jordan, the stripper, to join us there and learn all about herself through the eyes of those who watched her on the video feeds 24/7 (not me, I just catch up on the thread each day). That show is boring and edited really badly but the thread is hysterical and very entertaining...
11163. PsychProf - 8/17/2000 3:35:11 PM
CO...Rich cannot count on Sue's vote because of her obvious duplicity...Rudy is a sure alliance. For all we know, they've(Rudy-Rich) agreed to split the prize in return for the loyalty of vote. As for Kelly and Sue, I wouln't hold my breath waiting for communal forgiveness. The interesting wild card here is the immunity trump.
11164. glendajean - 8/17/2000 3:36:52 PM
Yep ... it's the only thing that has upset the alliance's plans. The dumber other players never have a clue till their name was called out and JP said, "The tribal council has spoken."
11165. PsychProf - 8/17/2000 3:40:00 PM
GJ...Haha...they sure as hell look pissed as they sit on the jury.
11166. glendajean - 8/17/2000 3:44:51 PM
Prof -- sorry about the grammer. It's probably not too smart to accuse people of being dumber and then change tense in mid sentence.
I think Rich and Rudy will stick together. Sue can be surprising, but it's obvious that they are all starting to get tired and are ready to leave the island.
Little known facts:
Jeff Propst, in last week's episode, stood out in the middle of the water while Colleen and Kellys stood on the log. He said on a radio show recently that his scrotum was stung by a jelly fish that evening.
Each of the 6 had a family member in LA last week, ready to be flown to the island for the luxury challenge won by Sean. That's why his dad was there the next morning.
Rich as been booked to host a talk radio show for one week in Providence, RI, where he lives.
11167. PsychProf - 8/17/2000 3:48:27 PM
HOW FREUDIAN IS THIS? 
11168. PsychProf - 8/17/2000 3:51:42 PM
KELLY/SUSAN...FRIENDS FOR LIFE 
11169. glendajean - 8/17/2000 3:52:23 PM
I don't remember ever seeing pictures of Freud in a two piece.
In the words of Celler: (Rim Shot)
11170. PsychProf - 8/17/2000 3:53:41 PM
GL...yea, but he loved a hatchet in a woman's hand...
11171. PsychProf - 8/17/2000 3:54:12 PM
Should be GJ...
11172. OhioSTOPAS - 8/17/2000 3:55:03 PM
GJ (Message # 11155): That's why my felonious cat won't stay in the house. She's got pride.
11173. glendajean - 8/17/2000 3:55:25 PM
Particularly when it was splitting open something in a spherical shape?
11174. glendajean - 8/17/2000 3:55:42 PM
it = axe
11175. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2000 3:57:35 PM
...something that ended in "nut".
11176. PsychProf - 8/17/2000 4:02:17 PM
Chrissakes...she's got us all shakin so hard we can't keyboard.
11177. AytchMan - 8/17/2000 4:04:09 PM
Reporting for duty. Just back from a nasty one near Peshawar. The gun jammed.
Survivor update in process...Receiving transmission from Pluto...
11178. AytchMan - 8/17/2000 4:11:37 PM
Finally, Sean bites the big one (the knucklehead). And we have our first casualty among the predictors.
The All-Important Point Spread:
judith -- semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win -- 3.75 points.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win -- 0.75.
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win -- 3.75.
aytchman -- Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win -- 3.00.
diva -- Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win -- 0.75.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win -- 3.00.
calgal -- Kelly, Greg and Sean with Greg to win -- 0.75.
marshame -- Greg, Gervase and Sean, with Sean to win -- 0.00 (Bupkis, thanks for playin').
As always, these calculations have been vetted by rejects from the Jerry Springer show.
11179. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2000 4:25:09 PM
Thanks, H!
11180. AytchMan - 8/17/2000 4:34:09 PM
judith--
At your service.
I am surprised that the alliance held all the way through. I can only conclude that the other contestants spent every waking minute in a zucchini-like trance. Even if it wasn't obvious to them on the beach, they should have figured it out from Jeff's blatant references to it at the tribal councils.
11181. JudithAtHome - 8/17/2000 4:35:50 PM
H-Man:
I think the Pagong were far too involved in their Eloi-like existance and just ignored the Morlocks til it was too late.
11182. glendajean - 8/17/2000 4:39:51 PM
Too bad. They certainly weren't able to think five seconds ahead and deal with weighty questions like calculating how one might win.
11183. AytchMan - 8/17/2000 4:42:09 PM
That's a good comparison. They sure did live the good life (relatively) until they got eaten.
11184. joezan - 8/17/2000 11:38:27 PM
Rented Erin Brockovich last night.
It was....
It was...Norma Rae with boobs.
...Mask, minus the ugly kid.
...Silkwood, minus the lesbian.
11185. Cellar Door - 8/18/2000 12:41:34 AM
Pretty Woman minus the gerbil.
11186. Don S. - 8/18/2000 2:08:59 AM
The Ten Commandments minus the AK-47s.
11187. joezan - 8/18/2000 8:05:16 AM
See, Cellar? There you go again, sliding in your thinly-veiled references to gays wherever you can.
...intolerant sicko!
11188. Cellar Door - 8/18/2000 10:25:04 AM
LOL!
11189. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 1:59:33 PM
Who are these people? 
11190. PsychProf - 8/18/2000 2:02:04 PM
Pelle and girlfriend?
11191. janjon - 8/18/2000 2:03:38 PM
For reasons I know not why, the name Wanda Hendrix comes to mind.
At any rate, somebodies who were at least minor league movieworld somebodies in the 40s or 50s.
11192. janjon - 8/18/2000 2:04:38 PM
And, Curt Jurgens? Les Brown (of the band of renown?)
11193. janjon - 8/18/2000 2:05:43 PM
And, Pelle, if you either retire for the night or take off to sneak in a few herring without letting us know, it will be hell to pay.
11194. Fraaankster - 8/18/2000 2:08:53 PM
I saw Erin Brockovich on a flight recently and enjoyed it. The real one was on some local morning news program about a week ago and she looks like a cross between Julia Roberts and Jaime Lee Curtis.
The real one seemed a lot more bosomier, bosomer, bossomlike ... Oh, whatever! The real one had quite a rack if you're into boobs.
She also claims to currently being active in another fight concerning a large company and toxic pollution.
The Ten Commandments minus the AK-47s.
LOL !!!
Don, you crack me up!
11195. Fraaankster - 8/18/2000 2:10:14 PM
Pelle,
Ike and Tina ?
11196. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:27:39 PM
janjon got Curt (hesitantly). The lady is German too and an actress in the light comedy genre.
11197. janjon - 8/18/2000 2:32:36 PM
Romy Schneider?
11198. AytchMan - 8/18/2000 2:34:57 PM
Pelle--
About your picture, the really intriguing question is: At what point does her finery end and her, ah, other finery begin?
11199. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:43:12 PM
Right, janjon. You are obviously a connoiseur of Europan cinema of the 70's (I think it was then Romy flourished?)
11200. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:45:23 PM
Now let's ceck out this fellow: 
11201. rubberducky - 8/18/2000 2:45:51 PM
I think it was then Romy flourished?
yes, well, Michelle didn't come into her own til much later....
11202. CalGal - 8/18/2000 2:47:35 PM
That's Maximilian Schell.
11203. CalGal - 8/18/2000 2:47:56 PM
In fact, I would guess that the still is from A Bridge Too Far.
11204. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 2:49:04 PM
That guy in the uniform is Max S.
11205. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 2:50:26 PM
Oh great....how stupid does MY post look after Cals photographic (in more ways than one) memory kicks in? Ah well.....
11206. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 2:59:24 PM
Yes, that's Schell. I was surprised to learn that he has an Oscar. In my view he was (is?) a light-weight actor, who in his American films specialised in doing the rather noble, rather reluctant, semi-Nazi officer. Just as Jürgens, as a matter of fact. Didn't he play von Rundstedt in a Bridge Too Far? He was in it in any case.
11207. CalGal - 8/18/2000 3:05:59 PM
No, some other guy played von Rundstedt. Schell played someone called Bittrich.
Schell won for Judgment at Nuremburg, which is one of those dreadful
11208. CalGal - 8/18/2000 3:06:57 PM
Sigh. I hate this keyboard.
....dreadful self-congratulatory movies that we 'murricans are prone to make, especially with Stanley Kramer at the helm.
That being said, Schell got to play the wily defense attorney and was quite good.
11209. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 3:07:57 PM
So was Monty Clift.
11210. CalGal - 8/18/2000 3:09:00 PM
Actually, a lot of the performances were very good. Garland also did a great job.
It was the tone that was so hard to take.
Plus, Richard Widmark playing a good guy creates a great deal of cognitive dissonance.
11211. glendajean - 8/18/2000 3:16:32 PM
Celler -- knower of these things -- from a lunch conversation about the brat pack, this question arose: Is Anthony McCarthy gay?
11212. CalGal - 8/18/2000 3:17:17 PM
You mean Andrew McCarthy?
11213. CalGal - 8/18/2000 3:18:04 PM
And the IMDB says that he got married last year, which doesn't necessarily mean much, but I offer it for consideration.
11214. glendajean - 8/18/2000 3:18:54 PM
yeah, Andrew.
11215. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 3:20:05 PM
Cal:
Do you recall the character name of Stanley Tucci on Wiseguy ?
11216. CalGal - 8/18/2000 3:24:16 PM
Never watched Wiseguy, but the IMD knows all. Rick Pinzolo.
11217. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 3:31:22 PM
Thanks...that sounds so wrong, though............oh well.
11218. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 3:32:07 PM
Another of Curt:
With David Bowie in "Just a Gigolo" (1978). Decadence galore.
End of German movie star sequence.
11219. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 3:33:51 PM
I love German decadence.
Like Fassbinder...
11220. JudithAtHome - 8/18/2000 3:34:24 PM
Fassbiender, I mean.
11221. CalGal - 8/18/2000 3:38:02 PM
What? Where is Hardy Kruger? Klaus Kinski? Peter Lorre?
Such neglect.
11222. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 3:49:02 PM
Yes Hardy Krüger. He also specialized in Nazi officers but of the cold-blooded, Aryan nasty variety. I'll see about a picture.
In the meantime: Schell and Schneider used to play in a peculiar German sort of film: the operetta movie, usually set in pastoral surroundings, where the characters, for no apparent reason, burst out in song. If you thought Sound of Music was schmalz ( I did) you ain't seen nothing. The modern variant of this is the German pastoral porno flick where the guys are clad (initially) in Tyroler hats and Lederhosen and the chicks in dirndls, short skirts and white stockings. After a short while there is a great deal of hearty humping going on accompanied by schrammelmusik.
11223. CalGal - 8/18/2000 3:50:53 PM
And people wonder why I look askance at "furrin" films.
Hardy also played cuties on occasion.
11224. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 4:01:00 PM
No luck with Krüger but I came across the cast for "A Bridge .."
Dirk Bogarde, Ryan O'Neal, Sean Connery, Gene Hackman, Jeremy Kemp, Edward Fox, Michael Caine, Anthony Hopkins, James Caan, Maximilian Schell, Hardy Krüger, Liv Ullmann, Elliot Gould, Laurence Olivier, Robert Redford
Rather impressive. But it doesn't list Jürgens. I could have sworn he was in it looking through his binoculars in disbelief as the Allied armada appears on the horizon.
11225. CalGal - 8/18/2000 4:04:26 PM
My favorite movie with Jurgens as an officer is the sub movie he did with Mitchum. Great stuff.
Have you seen A Bridge Too Far recently? It is slow, but parts of it are wonderful.
11226. glendajean - 8/18/2000 4:08:24 PM
I read a review when it came out that called it "A Star Too Many."
11227. CalGal - 8/18/2000 4:09:04 PM
Ha. Or A Bridge Too Long.
11228. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 4:13:43 PM
"Enemy below" or something like that. Two noble characters locked in mortal battle. Too many clichés and too predictable I thought.
11229. CalGal - 8/18/2000 4:14:57 PM
Oh, I loved it. Maybe because they did a Star Trek episode on it later, though. I could be biased. Besides, I think Mitchum always rocked.
11230. PelleNilsson - 8/18/2000 4:17:00 PM
Agreed on Mitchum. Those sleepy eyes.
11231. PelleNilsson - 8/19/2000 1:33:52 PM
A last one on Curd Jurgens. Note the uncanny resemblence to Michael Caine. 
11232. JudithAtHome - 8/19/2000 9:54:20 PM
Seperated at birth, no doubt about it!
11233. Don S. - 8/20/2000 12:36:11 PM
Cellar,
In case you haven’t seen it, there’s an interesting article in today’s NYTimes by Caetano Veloso comparing the new Orfeu film and Black Orpheus.
11234. Cellar Door - 8/20/2000 1:36:02 PM
Oh yes, thanks. We've seen it. Bill is a humungous Caetano fan.
11235. Don S. - 8/20/2000 1:40:52 PM
Me, too.
11236. rubberducky - 8/21/2000 8:46:00 AM
Video Update:
Rented Jerry And Tom and enjoyed it. Joe Mantegna & Sam Rockwell play used car salesmen who just happen to perform the occasional contract killing for the mob.
this movie had numerous enjoyable qualities. one such was there was true character development of the two main leads. over the course of 10 yrs, Rockwell is groomed into a decent hitman by Mantegna as he takes him along to some killings and soon enough Rockwell is doing just as many. the direction and production were also good. for me to notice them, something had to be out of the ordinary. the way one scene bled into the other a la Fargo was excellent and added a certain fluidity to the film. finally, the murder victims are all recognizable names. won't say them here, but that was a treat.
all in all, this is a recommend funny and enjoyable crime drama.
11237. glendajean - 8/21/2000 11:16:07 AM
Went to see Buck and Chuck, a low budget indie written by Mike White. He also played one of the title roles, Buck, a child-man of 27 years age who is fixated on his best childhood friend, Chuck. Chuck has grown-up to become Charlie, a tough LA music agent with a beautiful girlfriend and a nice house.
Buck lives with his mom, and his room is that of an eleven year old. Nothing seems to beckon him into adulthood. When his mom dies, the two friends meet again at her funeral. Buck's obsession with Chuck leads him to Los Angeles in pursuit of Chuck, who was mildly amused at the beginning, but finds Buck annoying.
From the beginning of their reunion, Buck tells us that his friendship with Chuck was not platonic. As young boys, there was a sexual dimension to it, something else that Chuck is not willing to re-visit. It is the driving force in Buck's pursuit of him.
Since White is the son of Mel White, former ghostwriter for Oliver North, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, it seems obvious that one might ask if Mike White is equating homosexuality with arrested development, at least on some metaphorical plain. Or is he using the almost fable-like character of Buck to make some commentary on the Chucks of the world, a busy young man who says over and over that he is no longer the boy back there in suburbia that Buck still loves.
In some ways, B&G remind me of La Vie in Rose, the Belgium movie about the young trans child, particularly in its feeling for both the innocence and pain of childhood sexuality.
Its cheap budget makes this film look incredibly flat, but since many shots are flashbacks, the home movie quality adds to the feel of the story.
11238. rubberducky - 8/22/2000 9:58:10 AM
11239. Indiana Jones - 8/22/2000 10:07:49 AM
I missed only two: "Destination Mir" and "The Contest."
"Knife" was an obvious phony. In reality, contestants would use the knives on each other.
11240. theDiva - 8/22/2000 10:10:27 AM
48%
11241. glendajean - 8/22/2000 10:27:56 AM
81%
11242. PelleNilsson - 8/22/2000 12:49:53 PM
62%
11243. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 1:08:23 PM
Only 67%, but that's OK - my grip on television is very tenuous.
The only thing I watch at the moment is that Danish hospital drama - The Kingdom. Boy is that a weird show.
I'm not sure how it happens, I don't make a point of remembering to watch it, but three weeks in a row, I've switched on the TV, just with the vague idea of seeing what's on, and the show is on... Not that would surprise Lars von Trier of course. He's manipulating my mind.
11244. ButterfieldSwire - 8/23/2000 9:45:49 AM
Maximillian Schell was great in "Judgement at Nuremburg". But I think he was an unusual credit to his race in "Topkapi"; he was certainly the coolest Kraut in English language cinema in that movie.
11245. CalGal - 8/23/2000 9:54:55 AM
Nuremburg was the first thing I'd ever seen him in, and I thought he was hot. I forgot about Topkapi--that's another good one. I don't think he developed the constipated look until the 70s.
He also made a pretty interesting documentary about Marlene Dietrich, as I recall.
11246. glendajean - 8/23/2000 10:45:35 AM
Funny story in today's Washington Post on Survivor's Richard being the archetypal Evil Queen.
11247. PsychProf - 8/23/2000 12:08:31 PM
11248. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2000 12:59:59 PM
GJ:
I've known this from the beginning! I just love Richard!
11249. glendajean - 8/23/2000 1:05:24 PM
Juditha -- what are you going to do tonight? Watch alone or in a party? Dress in island wear? Enquiring minds want to know!
11250. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2000 1:15:10 PM
We're having a few people over but since I have to work at the dreaded antique mall til 6pm, I'm going to BUY our snacks....some sushi trays and a couple of shrimp rings (peeled shrimp w/cocktail sauce) plus some coconut macaroons and maybe some tapioca pudding with fresh raspberries. I wanted to try some Belgian beer which I saw on TV last week...it has a cherry flavor (for the dessert course)but doubt I will; if we have beer, it will be Kirin and we might crack open some saki and serve it chilled. I'm sort of trying to keep things down to what they ate on the island. HA!
No "Rats-in-a-blanket" though!
11251. rubberducky - 8/23/2000 1:31:01 PM
"Survivor" parties?
are you serious?
11252. glendajean - 8/23/2000 1:34:24 PM
Ducky -- as a fabulous person, Juditha is also the perfect entertainer. I just knew that she would throw something together for tonight.
Juditha -- it's going to be a tough show. Lots of meanness and cutthroat shenanigans. Be prepared to stop audience brawls.
11253. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2000 1:39:38 PM
GJ:
That's why we're keeping the party small....that, and not ALL my friends watch. (But they all want to know what's going on with the show; isn't that funny?)
And what's wrong with a Survivor party, ducky? It's no more stupid than a Super Bowl party or an Oscar Night Party. It may be too pedestrian for your tastes but trust me, no one is complaining about free shrimp and saki.
11254. rubberducky - 8/23/2000 1:47:35 PM
J@H:
It's no more stupid than a Super Bowl party or an Oscar Night Party.
hahaha, well, you have a point there. no more, no less.... heh
i dunno, i guess if i watched it ... no, i've watched lots and lots of shows. i've seen lots of shows end (for a season no less) and not had nor attended parties for same. could be just me, i fully accept that.
11255. JudithAtHome - 8/23/2000 2:03:49 PM
Ducks:
For people who have watched the entire thing, this is the BIGGIE show tonight...it is the final show with the million dollar winner; it is last game of the World Series; it is election night; it is Tiger Woods tied with another golfer in the three hole playoff of the PGA Championship; it is Last Man Standing...there will never be another night like tonight, even though there will be another Survivor show.
I make no apologies for being thoroughly entranced with this goofy show. And I wouldn't miss this tonight for all the rats on Pulau Tiga!
11256. glendajean - 8/23/2000 2:22:04 PM
Juditha -- I wish I were invited. I'll be thinking of you, and if perchance, your man wins, I'll scream "Oh, my god!"
11257. AceofSpades - 8/23/2000 7:43:54 PM
Judith,
I started watching survivor about five weeks ago. It's a good show.
Not great, but watchable.
I'm pulling for ANYBODY BUT KELLY WIGLESWORTH.
11258. Jenerator - 8/23/2000 8:45:36 PM
I want Kelly or Rudi to win. Susan was rude and self-absorbed, I'm glad she was booted. Richard's not as smart as he thinks he is.
11259. Jenerator - 8/23/2000 9:45:25 PM
It's official, after that last speech, I hate Susan. What a nasty, rude, and spiteful woman. I hope Kelli wins and puts the check in her face.
11260. Indiana Jones - 8/23/2000 10:25:37 PM
Okay...so I hadn't watched any of it before. And I've had three or four glasses of wine, so my comments will be more asinine than even the usual. But this just destroys my belief in human beings.
When I was 14 years old an elderly woman told me "People are no damn good."
It's been the most truthful piece of advice I've ever received.
No way Rich should have won.
P.S. I'm starting to think Ace is truly evil. Is her last name really Wigglesworth?
11261. Indiana Jones - 8/23/2000 10:29:18 PM
Chaotic evil is one thing. Neutral evil is just plain evil.
11262. Cellar Door - 8/23/2000 11:50:27 PM
RICH WINS CAUSE GAYS ARE TOUGHER THAN STRAIGHTS!
GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE !
GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE !
GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE !
GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE !
GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE !
GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE !
GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE !
GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE ! GAYS RULE !
11268. CalGal - 8/24/2000 12:03:12 AM
Cellar, I'm telling you now that all but the first of those eye-strainers are going buh-bye.
11269. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:12:13 AM
Oh pish-tush.
GAYS RULE!
11270. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:12:29 AM
GAYS RULE!
11271. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:12:41 AM
GAYS RULE!
11272. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:12:54 AM
GAYS RULE!
11273. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:13:07 AM
GAYS RULE!
11274. CalGal - 8/24/2000 12:15:52 AM
That's better. It's also enough.
And although I didn't watch Survivor, I do think it's cool that a gay guy won.
11275. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 12:26:01 AM
This morning on my way to jury duty, I heard a local deejay threesome each discuss who they thought should win and why. Was this Rich guy the "nice" guy they might have been talking about ? Was he the least self-absorb, so therefore the nice one of the four remaining ones these deejays could have been discussing ?
I never saw the show, and never cared to, so now that it's finally over, maybe this country can get back to what it's great at doing about this time -- base their political decisions on 15 second ads.
... I slipped by Survivor watching Star Trek Generations on Fox instead.
11276. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:28:04 AM
It's not only cool that he won. Rich's winning is going to save countless gay kids from a schoolyard beating tomorrow.
11277. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 12:31:13 AM
Cellar,
Wouldn't that prime the schoolyard bullies to do the opposite instead ?
11278. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:32:42 AM
I don't follow you.
11279. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 12:38:15 AM
Cellar,
I meant, wouldn't these pissed off bullies now fueled by envy that a gay person won, take their bigotry and ridicule to another level ?
I hope that isn't the case ?!
11280. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:44:05 AM
I don't think so.
I would imagine they would realize that the object of their hatred might very well be as clever as Richard.
And squash them.
11281. CalGal - 8/24/2000 12:44:59 AM
Cellar,
Oh, please. I think you're being silly. And spamming, to boot.
11282. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 12:52:04 AM
From Jenerator ( 11258 ),
Richard's not as smart as he thinks he is.
So I gather from some of the recent posts here, that Richard was the smart one ? Why was he perceived as smart ?
What'd he do, convert coconuts into microwave ovens ?
...Maybe I should have watched the show once ?
11283. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 1:04:44 AM
Hooray for the Chronicle!
The real question is, what will take the place of Survivor as a topic of discussion in this thread ? ;-)
Good night, y'all!
11284. CalGal - 8/24/2000 2:28:12 AM
Gawd, they've cast Harry Potter.
11285. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 2:37:45 AM
Survivor Update:
Blessed Relief. We be done...
Congratulations to Judith@Home, our winner. We're pleased to award you the title of Grand High Poobette of Trash TV. With it comes full bragging rights (until January when the next round begins) plus a year's supply of beetle larvae You came within a Susan of a clean sweep. Since you asked, a Susan is the distance a scorned female travels in a millisecond. What a sorehead!
Honorable Mention to PsychProf. An excellent score for someone who never watched the show (if I'm not mistaken).
The Final And Remarkably Precise Point Spread:
--------------------------------------------------
judith -- semifinalists Richard, Susan, Rudy with Richard to win --4.00 points.
rubberducky -- Susan, Sean, Greg with Greg to win --0.00 (Ow).
psychprof -- Richard, Kelly, Rudy with Rudy to win --3.00.
aytchman -- Susan, Kelly, Jenna with Kelly to win -- 1.00 (Oy, what a fade. From being a contenda to Palookaville in one hour).
diva --Richard, Sean, Jenna with Jenna to win -- 1.00.
cartman -- Rudy, Susan, Sean with Rudy to win -- 1.00.
calgal -- Kelly, Greg and Sean with Greg to win -- 1.00.
marshame -- Greg, Gervase and Sean, with Sean to win --0.00 (Thanks for playin').
--------------------------------------------------
By the way, I posted a review of the show here:
A Cheeky Review Of The Show That Ate America.
written in my own amateurish but irreverent style.
From the Department of Full Disclosure Department: The Pan-Galactic AytchMan Corporation grosses a cool $00.01 per page view. I don't know about the rest of the literary schtockers here but that's adding up to some real change. We've just recently vaulted past the $3.00 mark.
11286. CalGal - 8/24/2000 2:44:37 AM
Nice review. And it occurs to me that your descriptions did well enough to allow me to manage a tie with you.
Hey, could you check out Tech and see if you have any advice for Ace?
11287. marshame - 8/24/2000 8:25:04 AM
Wow. I scored 0.00!! Obviously I guessed wrong. I thought the dunderheads would make it to the last (Sean, Greg and Gervase.) Instead, it was the voting of the dunderheads (at least Sean and Greg) that influenced the final outcome.
Let's see, we have Sean the nuerosurgeon who devises this nothing-short-of-brilliant plan to vote people off in alphabetical order. His was the swing vote in voting Jenna off. And this was right after he gave a speech about being sure that his method would not be the deciding factor and he wouldn't vote that way if he thought it would. Since the rest of the remaider (the conspiring
Tagi tribe of which he was the odd man out) also astutely know their ABC's, they cleverly voted for who he would vote for, so it was bye bye Jenna. My messsage to Sean: I pray to God that if I ever need to see a neurologist, that are smarter'n you!!
And then there is Greg, the boy-eqivalent of a total air-head ditz. Let' see, his though-provoking questions to Rich and Kelly for the Final Round was to guess a number between 1 and 10. Rich grabbed 7 which was closest to the clever Greg's secret number of 9, so that is the sheer-genius basis of Greg's vote. Greg, by the way, is touted as an "ivy league" student. Sheesh.
Gervase redeemed himself to me in the final voting. He was appalled at Susan's nasty, sour grapes tirade against Kelly and said so.
In the final analysis I have to agree that Rich played a smart strategy and should have been the winner based on his play of the game. But he was a smarmy, arrogant know-it-all, so I was rooting for Kelly. Besides, I wanted a girl to win!!
Rou
rich and
11288. theDiva - 8/24/2000 8:26:21 AM
#11284
Yes, and do you see who's directing? I may be ill.
11289. theDiva - 8/24/2000 8:27:04 AM
And I would like to note for the record that I never ONCE watched that show. It frightens me that I got an entire point.
11290. marshame - 8/24/2000 8:35:29 AM
Aytchman
Excellent review! You've got them pegged, bro!
11291. rubberducky - 8/24/2000 8:35:51 AM
Re: Message # 11285
note to self: next time, vote on more than appearance.
11292. marshame - 8/24/2000 8:43:20 AM
Did anyone catch the "reunion" with Mr. Personality Brian Gumball? I had it on so caught of few minutes of it while I played ebay auction (yep, the addiction is back.) Anyhow, Brian astutely noted that Kelly did not have a hug for Susan at the final vote. (Now I ask you, who would hug a scorpion??) And Kelly graciously said that she had forgiven Susan. But Susan, all those big teeth showing, said that she didn't regret what she sez, cuz she speaks her mind, so there. No wonder those 18-wheelers scare the dickens out of me! Look who's driving them! To quote Susan to Kelly: "If you were lying by the side of the road dying of thirst, I wouldn't stop, I 'd let the vultures get you!!" Nice. Kelly to Susan: "I'm sorry you feel that way." I'm glad Kelly got $100k, and I hope there's a future for her.
Most unrecognizable once cleaned up: Gretchen. Without that floppy brim hat and with lipstick, I hardly knew her. And was that the same Sonja? Wow, what a difference make-up and a blow-dryer make!
And
11293. marshame - 8/24/2000 8:48:33 AM
Diva
Who's directly Harry Potter? They tried to get Canterbury Cathedral as the site for the Hogwarts school, but the Canterbury powers that be turned them down.
11294. theDiva - 8/24/2000 8:53:44 AM
My old schoolmate Chris Columbus, a.k.a. The Evil Sphere. And he will make a sappy, sugary hash of it. I wish Tim Burton were doing it instead.
11295. bubbaette - 8/24/2000 9:19:04 AM
I watched the show for the first time last night. DH headed off to bed in disgust with me but morbid curiousity won out.
11296. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 9:40:37 AM
"11281. CalGal - 8/24/00 5:44:59 AM
Cellar,
Oh, please. I think you're being silly. And spamming, to boot."
Condesension duly noted as per usual.
11297. theDiva - 8/24/2000 9:44:33 AM
Cellar
Why, oh why, is Columbus directing the Harry Potter movie? Who made that bad decision?
11298. JudithAtHome - 8/24/2000 9:46:20 AM
marsha:
Kelly was not the "nicest" person in the bunch and Greg explained all her permutations earlier in the second hour. I knew then he was going to vote for Rich. Yes, Susan was a bitch but she was at least truthful. It's a cinch she will never be a politician.
I'm glad Richard won and think he will do well in life. He was honest from day one about wanting the money, having a plan to get the money, and he let us all in on what he was doing. He let everyone else in on it, too, and if they were too stupid to pick up on it, that's their problem. I'd rather have an honest person telling me what they're after than some two-faced conniver saying they are just there for the fun of it.
Richard says he is going to use some of the money to set up a Wilderness Outreach program for troubled teens, like the one that helped him out when he was 18...I think that speaks well for him and shows he is not evil incarnate. He also presents a very admirable model of what being gay means in this country...an honest, smart, caring person who is capable, articulate, and has the ability to think on his feet. In a battle of wits, Richard is supremely armed!
I'm very pleased he won because he worked hard for it and deserved it.
11299. CalGal - 8/24/2000 9:47:48 AM
Deev,
I've known about Columbus for a while now, which is very depressing. On the plus side, there are several movies so if he does one badly, maybe they'll give the next one to someone else. Not Burton, though--he's never been good at followthrough. Although maybe he'd be better at adapting.
I never saw the show, and I got a point. Yay, me!
11300. CalGal - 8/24/2000 9:49:15 AM
Cellar,
There's nothing condescending about the observation that bigots and school bullies aren't going to change their ways because a gay man won Survivor.
11301. theDiva - 8/24/2000 9:52:49 AM
Cal
Ain't it just awful? He'll ruin it. At least Burton would bring the necessary imagination and cockeyed worldview it deserves. Plus think how gorgeously dark it would be. sniffle With Columbus, we'll have Bambi-esque critters, 'heart-tugging' moments, and friggin' Burger King tie-ins.
11302. rubberducky - 8/24/2000 9:54:58 AM
and from the "hey, we're all professionals here" file:
Hip-hop's night of celebration took a turn for the worse Tuesday night, when a melee involving several artists broke out during the Source Hip-Hop Music Awards, leading police to pull the plug.
i mean, fighting before the show even started? pitiful.
11303. theDiva - 8/24/2000 9:57:25 AM
gee, imagine that. Fisticuffs breaking out at an award show honoring the likes of Eminem. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
11304. AceofSpades - 8/24/2000 10:05:40 AM
Judith:
I was heavily pulling for Rich over Kelly, myself.
Rich lied, but the same way people lie when they play poker-- it's expected and accepted. Then he said, "Hey, fuck it, I lied. It's a goddamn game."
Kelly, OTOH, lied and then cried about it. "Boo hoo fucking hoo, I feel so bad I lied. Waaaaaah. I feel I've 'compromised my morals and ethics.' Please vote for me because I'm really a good person who would never normally scheme in real life."
What bullshit. She was scheming all the way. She just played the Sob Sister at the end, whereas Rich, to his credit, just admitted what he'd done and honestly told everyone, "And I'd do it all again."
Rich was playing the game. Kelly was playing the Jury for saps.
Greg wasn't taken in by it, but I believe that he voted for Rich only because Rich came closer to his number. I don't think he actually had a preference-- he just wasn't taken in by Kelly's "rebirth" as an "honest, moral, and ethical" person.
And Sue's speech rocked.
11305. bubbaette - 8/24/2000 10:06:54 AM
Not having watched any of the previous Survivor shows, I wasn't privy to all the personality stuff that had gone before. All I caught was the Machiavellian machinations toward the end and the extreme hostility of that blond girl. I think of the four on the island at the start of the show I liked Rudy best but only because he shut the hell up. The main thing I wanted to know and nobody addressed, is how did those three walk over that bed of hot coals?
11306. AceofSpades - 8/24/2000 10:06:57 AM
(I preferred Rudy over Rich, though. And Sue over Rich. But everyone else over Kelly.)
11307. rubberducky - 8/24/2000 10:15:17 AM
Deev:
i agree, but how is Eminem any "worse" than some of the other sleaze that were there and (undoubtedly) got awards? because he sells more records and is more visible?
11308. theDiva - 8/24/2000 10:19:48 AM
he's probably not any worse, his was the first name off the top of my head.
11309. theDiva - 8/24/2000 10:21:05 AM
as you can probably imagine, I think very little of that scene. I decline to use the word 'music'.
11310. rubberducky - 8/24/2000 10:24:24 AM
diva: oh, ok.
btw, for those of you who missed it:
The following is the "Late Show" top ten list of "Things I Learned on the 'Survivor' Island," as presented by the 16 contestants:
10. Jenna "Leftover swimwear from the island can get you a grand ($1,000) on E-bay."
9. B.B.: "After being in tropical sun for a few days, chicks begin thinking you're Brad Pitt."
8. Susan: "Any time you feel like a couple of nights back in civilization, just fake scurvy."
7. Ramona, Sean, Stacey, Dirk, Sonja, Gretchen and Joel: "Grubs is tasty!"
6. Kelly: "If the host asks you to participate in a reward challenge -- make sure it's for the show."
5. Greg: "Best thing about a deserted island -- no Letterman."
4. Colleen: "Now I know where I'm going if George W. Bush gets elected president.
3. Gervase: "If you prepare rat meat by carefully cleaning, seasoning and cooking, it's pretty bad."
2. Rudy: "Months later I still get sand in places I wish I didn't."
1. Richard: "The human body is a beautiful thing." (Camera pulls back -- Richard is completely naked.)
After seeing Richard Hatch deliver his line in the nude, Letterman remarked, "I think that's gonna make some people feel much better about themselves."
11311. glendajean - 8/24/2000 10:32:21 AM
Judith -- congratulations! You called it weeks ago. I still wish I had seen you when it happened.
Celler -- check out the link I posted yesterday about the Evil Queen theory. Very funny.
Bubbaette -- I wondered about the hot coals, too. It didn't seem a big deal to anybody. I wish they had explained it. We'll probably read a story soon about somebody trying to emulate that and burning their feet off.
Sue was a whiner. She had been telling Kelli for weeks that she was going to fry her. She maid her own bed. The dumbest, imo, are Sean and Gervase. Either one of them could have come up with a counter alliance or strategy. Sean, particularly, had basically gone back on his word to Kelli a couple of times, and it was his announced "alphabet" strategy that allowed the alliance to target Jenna and Gervase.
Pagong tribe disengaged from this as a game. I am amazed that Richard was the only one smart enough to figure out that: a) it was a game; b) winning elections requires the ability to count; and c) that he won, given how much in low regard he held his fellows. Of course, most of his snide comments were to the camera and not to his fellow islanders.
11312. glendajean - 8/24/2000 10:34:39 AM
maid=made
11313. Indiana Jones - 8/24/2000 10:45:02 AM
Well, before I'd ever watched the show (last night was the first time except for maybe 10 minutes once before), I was leaning toward Rudy based on what I'd read and heard. But after seeing him in action I was reminded of Boxer in Animal Farm, whereas Rich was of course Napoleon.
Anyway, I retract my statement about Ace being "evil" because of his despising Kelly. It was my feminine side talking. I really just wanted someone to hand me a tissue.
I still don't like the fact Rich won, but either way it wasn't something to get worked up about.
Susan was a bad sport, sore loser. Of course her vote did make the difference, so at least she also was a spoiler, which isn't bad for a whining loser.
11314. Ronski - 8/24/2000 11:21:59 AM
11315. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 11:22:24 AM
"There's nothing condescending about the observation that bigots and school bullies aren't going to change their ways because a gay man won Survivor."
Sez you.
Columbus is directing "HarryPotter" because Hollywood still thinks of him in terms of "Home Alone," rather than "Bicentennial Man."
11316. theDiva - 8/24/2000 11:26:39 AM
Good God. Didn't anyone out there actually watch Home Alone? Using Columbus, even based on that, is totally missing the point of Harry Potter.
11317. glendajean - 8/24/2000 11:29:14 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but when Cellar says that Hollywood thinks of Columbus in terms of Home Alone, he is referring to how well they saw that it did at the box office.
11318. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 11:30:01 AM
Correct.
11319. glendajean - 8/24/2000 11:30:04 AM
toys
11320. theDiva - 8/24/2000 11:31:57 AM
I know. I know. I still possess a certain cockeyed optimism which makes me think perhaps they MIGHT ACTUALLY WANT SOMEONE WHO COULD DO A GOOD JOB.
Sorry. I just think Harry is too good to screw up.
11321. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 11:33:10 AM
toys.
11322. DocBrown - 8/24/2000 11:41:33 AM
Fraankster said:
The real question is, what will take the place of Survivor as a topic of discussion in this thread ? ;-)
Perhaps Harry Potter?
Here is the new Comedy Central show that I watched last night instead of Survivor: Robot Wars.
I am definitely going to watch Robot Wars. I will probably become obsessed. It may be the only show I find worthy of discussion.
Needless to say, it will not become the new topic of discussion in this thread, unless Doc Brown starts talking to himself.
11323. theDiva - 8/24/2000 11:45:24 AM
Doc
You know we love your contrary, geeky self.
11324. DocBrown - 8/24/2000 12:15:35 PM
Thanks, Diva.
Here is a true story, just for your lovely self:
My wife is a bigwig at a huge megabank headquarters that takes up a whole skyscraper in downtown Cleveland. Her co-workers are executives, administrators, and bureaucrats. This morning she tells me that everyone at the office is talking about Survivor.
I teach engineering at a college. I am surrounded by engineering professors and students. At work today I haven't heard a peep about Survivor. Everyone here is talking about Robot Wars.
11325. theDiva - 8/24/2000 12:48:18 PM
ha! That's pretty funny.
11326. PelleNilsson - 8/24/2000 12:59:51 PM
bubba
Walking over coal is an old trick. The moisture in the skin will protect you (for a while). How far did they walk?
11327. bubbaette - 8/24/2000 2:36:12 PM
Pelle
Not too far -- about three steps and they're through.
11328. PelleNilsson - 8/24/2000 3:33:49 PM
That's it then. You could do it too. At the next BBQ party?
11329. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 6:46:55 PM
Coals are also not a very good conductor of heat. That's why coals are always used.
If it had been over bits of glowing red and orange pieces of some type of metal or iron, then I would have been impressed. ;-)
That's it then. You could do it too. At the next BBQ party?
No,no,no. At the Mote parade, silly!
11330. CalGal - 8/24/2000 7:03:21 PM
Slightly different subject, but over at TT someone mentioned Barney Miller and I went WOW, I'd forgotten about that show.
One of the best theme songs in history. I wonder how come it's not in syndication?
11331. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 7:10:13 PM
Cal,
I completely forgot about that show until now. I think I'm gonna have to completely redo my original top ten all time sitcom list. How could I forget that one also ?
Favorite character ? Hmmm, that's a tough one --real tough. Offhand, Inspector Frank Luger would certainly be in the running. James Gregory played a great role.
I found the first two years hard to swallow, particularly with "Fish". He never grew on me.
By the way, Cal. Have I ever told you that I love you ? You Nancy Culp type of woman, you ! ;-)
(swoon)
11332. CalGal - 8/24/2000 7:16:26 PM
Gawd. That still ranks as one of the most horrifying moments in my life.
"I figured you'd look like Nancy Culp!"
I'm amazed I let you live.
The Steve Landesburg character was my favorite, with Ron Glass a close second. But Hal Linden kept it all together, even if he wasn't showy.
11333. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 7:31:41 PM
Gawd. That still ranks as one of the most horrifying moments in my life.
Isn't she dead, and didn't she run for state senate or assembly once, with Buddy Ebsen as one of her staunchest critics ?
Don't ask me where I ever came up with that image of you, but I did. I thought the image of you that was even funnier was the one PP(?) posted of another Calgal. I think her website had her listed as a real estate agent somewhere here in California.
Hey, I thought Riv was 6'5", and Deev shorter. Why I came up with those heights and them, I'll never know ?
...Where do most Moties hang out in TT, by the way ( Like I don't have enough local forums to keep me busy [ I just recently found out that my alma mater might begin play with Arizona State sans cheerleaders. What next ?] ) ?
All those characters had a "depth" not found or developed too often for sitcoms. Whatever happened to Steve Landesberg's career, by the way ?
You are definitely the opposite of Miss Jane, by the way ?
11334. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 7:33:42 PM
No question mark needed at the end there ( You know that ). What am I doing ?
11335. Fraaankster - 8/24/2000 7:51:46 PM
Cal,
Youse got e-mail!
Time to go get something to eat!
11336. EricCartman - 8/25/2000 1:33:47 AM
Survivor -- Despite my earlier critique of the show, I caved and watched most of last night's finale. Previously, I had only seen maybe 15-20 minutes of one of the early episodes, and then only because I was flipping through and they were doing a scene with Stacey, who I thought was pretty cute.
Anyway, the finale was notably better than the earlier show I'd seen; slightly different type of group dynamic maybe. Still, all the backbiting and perfidy was evident in full force, and I was much more dismayed by Susan's whiny tirade than I was by Kelly's lame "I'm not normally such a treacherous bitch" spiel.
Richard did well, and I respected his upfront treachery. He knew how to play the game, and he kicked ass. But I still found myself pulling for Rudy; he reminded me a bit of my dad -- a tough, un-PC old coot who doesn't take shit and whose word is bond.
The "reunion" show was a throwaway, but Stacey still looks pretty good, so I let it go until Gumbel started getting on my nerves -- a good 10 minutes or so.
Overall, not great, and not nearly worthy of the amazing amount of hype, but still watchable, as Ace said. The Outback show may be worth checking in on from time to time.
11337. Indiana Jones - 8/25/2000 9:00:05 AM
Re coal walking: It's also, as Pelle implied, that feet aren't a good conductor of heat. The trick is to keep moving.
If you've ever walked on hot asphalt barefoot, you know what I mean.
11338. DocBrown - 8/25/2000 9:42:58 AM
I have always been amazed by Barney Miller. Other that a handful unusual scenes, every scene took place in two rooms. For 168 episodes they stayed in the Squad Room, occasionally stepping into Barney's office for private conversations.
It had to be very inexpensive and simple to produce. Yet it was one of the funniest shows ever made.
Years ago I wrote a few episodes of my own one room sitcom following the Barney Miller formula. It was a wonderful hobby. In the Barney Miller model, writing, camera angles, audio, and stage directions were amazingly easy. Dealing with actors was not.
11339. marshame - 8/25/2000 11:21:13 AM
Bubbaette
Re your comment: "the extreme hostility of that blond girl."
You'd better read Aytchman's review in Message # 11285 re what he says about YOU and the mean spirited Susan!
11340. Ronski - 8/25/2000 11:39:34 AM
Nancy Culp ran for Congress in Pennsylvania, and Buddy Epsen, a Reagan Republican, made a commerical for her opponent saying that Culp was a very nice lady and he loved her dearly but she was also an addle-brained lefty (not his exact words). She lost. She later died.
She was quite funny on screen, I thought.
11341. CalGal - 8/25/2000 11:48:17 AM
Oh, I think she is the only part of Beverly HB that holds up.
11342. glendajean - 8/25/2000 11:52:52 AM
Not being able to sleep in the middle of the night, I watched the first two hours and fifteen minutes of The Longest Day.
I was particularly struck by how easy they made the invasion look, compared to Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan.
Typical of cameo type roles, several biggies phone in their performances (Henry Fonda, Richard Burton, Peter Lawford). Caught glimpses of an animated Sean Connery.
11343. RosettaStone - 8/25/2000 12:02:24 PM
On the phone from North Carolina, my daughters were very upset that the girl didn't win the $1million in Survivor. And couldn't believe that the key vote was another woman voting against another.
"We would never do that, daddy."
11344. JudithAtHome - 8/25/2000 12:08:29 PM
marsha:
I thought H-man was using "Bubbette" as a generic term in that piece.
11345. CalGal - 8/25/2000 6:31:52 PM
GJ--I haven't seen The Longest Day recently, but did you check out A Bridge Too Far?
11346. Cellar Door - 8/25/2000 7:47:14 PM
Girls can be so whiny. Right Rosie?
Tell them the fastest way to get ahead is to marry a gay man.
Worked for Arianna.
11347. CalGal - 8/26/2000 1:19:19 AM
I watched Blade Runner tonight, and realized that I'd never seen it before. That was a shock. I figured for sure I'd caught it on TV in the 80s, but I must have been thinking of something else. I've seen three clips so often I guess I thought it was the whole movie.
Anyway, it's okay. Visually awesome, very clever, extremely cold. Not a lot of fun, I must say.
Is it only because I'd just seen The Big Sleep that the scene with Harrison and Joanna Cassidy seemed like a homage to Humphrey's bit with the hat and the glasses at the faux antique bookstore?
11348. Cellar Door - 8/26/2000 10:31:38 AM
Not at all. "Blade Runner" is full of film noir references. The differecne is that the plot of "The Big Sleep" is exceedingly compkicated while the "Blade Runner" narrative is really quite straightforward. The complexity is in the telling.
It remains one of the all-time great L.A. movies (easily the equal of "Chinatown" on that score -- and what a perfect double feature they would make)as well as a phenom in and of itself. The title has passed into the language as a descriptive term.
I find it has a lot of parallels with mid-70's Jacques Rivette films -- particularly "Duelle."
11349. sincerity454 - 8/26/2000 6:35:37 PM
Has anyone here been able to sit through all of the endless Magnolia? I just couldn't bear it anymore, so I finally gave up on it ever ending and walked away from it. It's a shame it was so excessive, because it had a really promising beginning. I thought Tom Cruise was wonderful, and I hate to tell ya'll this, but that character he played is based on a real-life man who sells tapes and books on how to psyche women out. One of my son's teenage friends bought the package and lent it my son, who was promptly ordered to get that trash out of my house.
Anyway, it was so depressing and morbid - those deathbed scenes - I just couldn't bear it anymore after awhile.
Could anyone tell if there was a denouement and what the point of the movie was after all?
11350. JudithAtHome - 8/26/2000 7:08:28 PM
sincerity:
CalGal can tell you where to find a review or reviews from some of the people here on the Mote...we have a site linked to this place where she posts our reviews of movies. It's called the Mote@theMovies and you can get there by going to the top of this page and scrolling down to the first listing below Related Links on the right side of the page....in the yellow field.
So, I guess I can tell you, too!
Welcome to the Mote, by the way. (Oh, if the reviews of that particular movie are not there, they will be soon...CalGal was on vacation for a while this summer but she is a whiz at posting those reviews so it won't be long now.)
11351. CalGal - 8/26/2000 7:19:28 PM
Thanks, Judith--there is only one review there now because my computer's power supply bit the dust and that's where a ton of reviews are. Then I didn't have my own PC for a few months. I have a lot of catching up to do.
On the plus side, my PC is fixed. I just have to pick it up. That should only take me another month or two.
Sincerity, most people here didn't care for Magnolia, either. I haven't seen it yet and your comments--in addition to the others--haven't put me in any hurry.
11352. Cellar Door - 8/26/2000 7:39:03 PM
I bolted "Magnolia" after the first hour.
I rarely walk out of free screenings, but the cost to my brain cells was far too steep.
Paul Thomas Anderson is to movies as Brett Easton Ellis is to literature.
11353. stostosto - 8/28/2000 7:00:07 AM
I saw American Beauty the other night on video and liked it a lot. There is one overriding reason for this: I identified with the Kevin Spacey character to an almost eery extent. Not that I fantasise about teenage girls, mind you (though, like Jimmy Carter, I do know the feeling of forbidden sexual desire).
I must say on reflexion though, that Annette Bening's character was a cliche. She wasn't provided with redeeming, or even human, traits. Just a mindless selfish oppressor. Made it too easy on Kevin Spacey to look justified in his disgust for her. (Same with his job in fact, but that's more OK, since it wasn't as central to the story).
I also found the lyrical waxing on 'beauty' to be somewhat forced and disconnected. An unnecessary and too obvious bid to make the film more art-like.
Nor was the ending compelling. Why does there have to be violent death in Hollywood movies?
I marvel at Spacey though.
11354. rubberducky - 8/28/2000 10:20:01 AM
Video Update:
Rented Two Hands from last year. a good example, imo, of what looks like the "Americanization" of foreign movies. not that i'm complaining, mind you, as i like this flick.
it stars heath ledger (the cute blonde boy from Gidson's Patroit) as a cute blonde boy who looks sooo out of place as a doorman at a nudie bar in Australia (or England, not really clear) who starts down a bad career path when he gets involved with the mob as a money carrier. well, in what is one of the stupidest things i've seen a main character do in a movie, he loses the money and goes on the run from the mob.
blah, blah, blah - run, run, run.
this woulda been a pretty average flick, except that there is one chilling scene when a boy (who sees his best friend run over - and then the guy picks the kid (12 years old max) up and places him on the sidewalk and drives off .. while the other kid stands there looking) marches into the bad guys place and blows all 4 of the bad guys away with a glazed look in his eye). which, to me, made the movie
minor plot point: they kept talking about dollars .. but in Australia or England, don't they use pounds or some such thing? the money wasn't American currency - yet they kept calling it X amount of dollars - it was odd.
anyway, this turned out ot be a decent movie that i rather liked and not just because Heath is a hottie (even though i couldn't understand him some of the time).
11355. stostosto - 8/28/2000 10:29:07 AM
rubberducky
They use dollars in Australia. (Australian dollars, that is).
FXConverter™ - 164 Currency Converter Results
Monday, August 28, 2000
1 Australian Dollar = 0.5743 US Dollar
1 US Dollar (USD) = 1.7412 Australian Dollar (AUD)
11356. rubberducky - 8/28/2000 10:30:44 AM
ah
thank you sto.
just goes to show how much of a typical American i really am ....
11357. Cellar Door - 8/28/2000 10:52:55 AM
I think Benning's character was the weakest part of the movie. She was far too simple a target and she was directed to play it in a manic style when something simpler would have sufficed. The films artiness is part of its POV. At heart it's very much in line with satirical takes on middle-class life from a previous era - particularly the work of George Axelrod.
11358. Jack Vincennes - 8/28/2000 11:32:25 AM
Erin Brockovich
A gaseous, trite star-vehicle wherein Julia Roberts gets to play working class via trashy clothing and a foul mouth. In essence, she reprises her wardrobe from Pretty Woman. But she's a good gal underneath that rough exterior, a moll bruised by bad men, a mother who neglects her children only to tend to the people who really need her - Californians who have been poisoned by Pacific Gas & Electric and their evil design to put chromium into their groundwater.
Like Don Quixote dressed for a red light district, Julia teaches us that she is smarter than lawyers, that heart (not head, unless she's giving it) is what matters, that she can get anywhere flashing her titties, and, that everybody who ever crosses Erin Brockovich is a tight, humorless, prig who has underestimated her pluckiness, to their undying embarrassment.
Naturally, the PG&E people are faceless, stupid drones, who Erin confronts and morally upbraids in a settlement meeting; her co-counsel is the tightest, most frigid of shrews, who Erin bests with her superior knowledge of the case file (and the inelegantly communicated fact that Erin is not a frigid misery of a woman); her boss is an addled schmo who is a much better man with the likes of Erin on his ticket; her coworkers are mean, fat cows who envy Erin for her lean legs and yes, her prominent titties; and everyone else is just in the sway of her estimable bosom, brawn and benificence.
And the victims, yea God, the victims. Stephen Soderbergh lards this experience with 5 or 6 sit-downs during which Erin learns yet again how many children have been lost; how many tumors have cropped up; how many chemotherapies have been delivered, so she can empathize and show us all why she does what she does.
11359. Jack Vincennes - 8/28/2000 11:32:38 AM
Lastly, the working class hero tale almost always fails because Hollywood demands the canonization of the little folk. Contrast Erin Brockovich and its falsity with A Civil Action, where the little folk still remain humble and stoic (it has Kathleen Quinlan, who has trademarked humble and stoic), but, at a minimum, it allows us to see the idiocy of its hero, lawyer John Travolta.
No such doings for the lovely Ms. B.
And as for the little folks and their pending wings?
Brockovich's beau (played tenderly by the child-rearing, Harley-riding Aaron Eckhart), along with one of her ex-husbands, attempted to extort money from her after she hit it big. And those poisoned by PG&E? Many of them (650 in all) are suing their lawyers because their slice of the pie ($333 million) was not, to their mind, large enough.
11360. Thoughtful - 8/28/2000 11:41:59 AM
I was nosing around adcritic the other day and came across a terrific ad for EDS on herding cats...if you haven't seen it, check it out at http://www.adcritic.com and it's in the 100 best list.
11361. Cellar Door - 8/28/2000 11:48:48 AM
Jack, I thought you'd be spending your time at "Bring It On" this weekend. Race war as a cheerleading competition. Talk about "High Concept"!
11362. rubberducky - 8/28/2000 11:56:05 AM
so, cellar, "Bring It On" was as bad as it looked?
11363. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:17:47 PM
Jack,
It's not that you took the nasty presentation of corporate suits a bit.....personally, is it? (g)
11364. rubberducky - 8/28/2000 12:21:35 PM
jesus, i sometimes think we as a nation get stupider as the days pass ... 
SHREVEPORT, La. (AP) - The new Miss Teen USA drew thunderous applause after she was asked to describe men with three words.
Jillian Parry, of Newtown, Pa., said Saturday that men are always ``causing trouble, being confusing while still being irresistible.'' A little wordy, but the audience of 3,500 loved it.
11365. Cellar Door - 8/28/2000 12:29:58 PM
Actually I haven't seen it. Just the trailer and the press kit. I awat Jack's expert appraisal.
11366. CalGal - 8/28/2000 11:31:47 PM
I am rewatching EdTV. It's amusing to think that just two years ago, watching every moment of a guy's life on TV was considered an unlikely stretch.
11367. MsIvoryTower - 8/29/2000 9:55:10 AM
Jack,
Your review of Erin B settles it for me, I won't bother.
et al..,
I just rented Topsy Turvey, the film about the partnership of Gilbert and Sullivan. It had an all British cast, and was directed by Mike Leigh (who I know nothing about).
I found it a mostly excellent film, with great acting by Jim Broadbent and Allan Corduner as Gilbert and Sullivan (respectively). The score was fantastic, of course, being made up of mostly Gilbert and Sullivan songs, and there were several pieces from their operas that were cleverly used to convey parts of the story itself, also a treat to watch. There were a few scenes I found a bit boring, however, mostly because they dragged on too long, their point having been made and perceived long before we moved on to something else. The scenes where Gilbert and Sullivan are doing their respective parts to get The Makado ready for opening night were the ones that most come to mind here.
In any case, I highly recommend the film to any G & S fans, and to anyone who is interested in theater generally, well worth the time and price of a rental.
11368. CalGal - 8/29/2000 10:31:58 AM
That's interesting--I agree that TopsyTurvy was segments of perfection interspersed by boredom. But the prep scenes were fantastic. I could have done with far less of the non-Mikado performance stuff.
11369. glendajean - 8/29/2000 10:53:45 AM
The performance scenes were wonderful. The other movie that had similar wonderful scenes was "Cradle Will Rock." Much of the dramatic exposition in that movie was so-so, with the exception of Cherry Jones and Bill Murray's performances.
Mike Leigh, who directed Topsy Turvy, also did "Secrets and Lies," the British movie of a couple of years ago about the young black woman who finds her mother who had put her up for adoption.
11370. JudithAtHome - 8/29/2000 11:02:38 AM
The things I most enjoyed in Topsy Turvy were the costumes and the sets, with all that fussy Victorian stuff in the furnishings and the accute attention to detail, down to the Morris wallpaper and the Chinoiserie.
11371. CalGal - 8/29/2000 11:12:27 AM
Oh, yeah, I noticed that, too.
(eyes crossing)
That reminds me that I need to rent the DVD. Are there any extras on it, GJ?
11372. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:28:07 AM
I saw it in the theater. Don't know about the DVD version.
11373. JudithAtHome - 8/29/2000 11:29:43 AM
Okay Missy...is that eyecrossing a sarcasm? Because I've been snarked at by the best and am immune to that sort of thing...why, just today cazart said to me....oh never mind!
11374. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:32:08 AM
Juditha -- Cal is too modest to admit it, but she's a Laura Ashley kind of woman. Lots of frills and lace. Honest.
11375. glendajean - 8/29/2000 11:36:35 AM
Last night, we watched the DVD of Girl, Interrupted.
The Bernadette Peters Live at Carnegie Hall was cracked. It was either that or my partner was going to watch The Mummy listening to the director's commentary.
Remind me never to be put in an insane asylum with Angelina Josie. Or Wynona Ryder. I almost got sick at the scene where Josie's character talks a woman named Daisy into killing herself, no less while listening to Connie Francis singing Why do the birds keep on singing, why does the ocean rush to the shore...don't they know, it's the end of the world, it ended when you said goodbye.
11376. CalGal - 8/29/2000 11:43:36 AM
Judith,
Sarcasm at me, not you. I'm like wow, that was there to be noticed?
Yes, GJ is right. I am very Laura Ashley.
Who the fuck is she?
11377. glendajean - 8/30/2000 5:06:42 PM
I watched The Muse last night. Eminently likable if one likes Albert Brooks. Another of his anxious riffs on the burden of an unflashy man in an unreal world. Andie McDowell seemed a little off. Sharon Stone is good as Sharon Stone. An ok rental.
11378. OhioSTOPAS - 8/30/2000 5:23:25 PM
I've met CalGal.
This Laura Ashley must be a biker chick.
11379. Fraaankster - 8/30/2000 5:23:39 PM
I understand that Bring It On is not as bad as the trailers might suggest ( I haven't seen it, by the way ). I will plug one thing about it, though. It was filmed primarily here, in San Diego, with a few shots supposedly filmed at my alma mater (SDSU).
Judith,
Have you seen those commercials about "blown opportunities" ( I forget who it's for [ Not a very good commercial then, is it ?] ) ? One has a couple of graduate student aged men working in a garage with one of them shown trying to get a friend to pitch in $300.00 for their computer project while touting the virtues of a silicon chip and the future. The other has a guy seeing a future of coffee shops across the country serving "lattes". He's snubbed by this prospective "investor"/customer, and it ends with him asking another customer at his restaurant/bar the following: So you're from Seattle, huh ?
Great stuff!
I thought you would get a kick out of those ?
11380. glendajean - 8/30/2000 5:38:36 PM
Fraaaank -- I believe that it's a Lexus commercial. Definitely an automobile company.
11381. CalGal - 8/30/2000 5:41:49 PM
Ohio,
Ha!
Fraaaaaank,
I like those commercials.
11382. Fraaankster - 8/30/2000 5:46:17 PM
Glenda,
I think you're right. Sometimes a commercial can be so captivating that one forgets what's being plugged. That was the case with these for me. There's another -- a jeans commercial I believe -- that has a young woman "breaking", which also holds my attention. :-)
Cal,
I love 'em also!
11383. glendajean - 8/30/2000 5:46:29 PM
Do you know what commercials send me over the edge? The b & w MonsterDotCom commercials of children saying, "Someday I want to file all day and kiss up to management and be laid off in mid-career."
Also, the Craig T. Nelson promos for "The District." Waste of a perfectly good place to do a cop show on a terribly flawed idea.
11384. CalGal - 8/30/2000 5:48:20 PM
Oh, I love the Monster commercials--even though Dice is a better site.
"When I grow up, I want to have a brown nose."
"I want to be in middlemanagement."
"I want to say yes sir, no sir,...."
11385. Fraaankster - 8/30/2000 5:49:29 PM
Glenda,
Yes, those MonsterDotCom commercials are good ones also. I haven't seen the Graig T.Nelson promos ?
11386. glendajean - 8/30/2000 6:04:16 PM
No, I hate them.
And I particularly hate the Craig T. Nelson promos. I gather the series is about the one white man on a horse that will make DC livable and safe. It's an insult to the citizens (who receive enough insults from their own government, from Congress).
In truth, the current police chief, from Chicago, seems to be doing a pretty decent job with the impossible task of running the Metropolitan Police Dept. DC doesn't need a hero. It just needs competence.
The previous police chief, btw, happened to be white. He got a sweetheart deal on a classy apartment downtown. His roommate who set it up was extorting men who went to gay strip bars down by the Navy Yard. He looked for cars that had indications that a closeted man was driving it, then he tracked them down and blackmailed them. He also told the building management that he and the chief were there on assignment -- official police business. Their rent was half the regular rent.
Race shouldn't matter, but in DC it's everything. Why couldn't DC, this most incredibly interesting and complex city, get the folks who did "Homocide"?
11387. TabouliJones - 8/31/2000 9:24:21 AM
The above discussion made me think of the following line from a fairly decent 80's flick:
"I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that."
Any guesses as to what movie the above comes from?
11388. glendajean - 8/31/2000 10:14:09 AM
Tabouli -- Ferris Bueller's Day Off
11389. TabouliJones - 8/31/2000 10:18:03 AM
Glendajean,
Nope. Hint: Calgal adores the actor who speaks the line, thinks he is the epitome of hotness.
11390. CalGal - 8/31/2000 10:21:39 AM
Oh, I know! I wouldn't have if you hadn't given that hint, but it's John Cusack, and then I flashed on him saying that in Say Anything.
11391. CalGal - 8/31/2000 10:23:27 AM
And it is a decent little movie. Very thoughtful. No easy villains, no cheap heroes.
11392. Indiana Jones - 8/31/2000 10:26:12 AM
I would have known it...he's talking to the father of the girl (Ione Skye?) at dinner. The father was played by the same guy who now plays Frasier's dad.
11393. TabouliJones - 8/31/2000 10:26:46 AM
Bingo. The above line has a neat little follow through that sounds a little too cute on paper, but works very well within the context of the movie.
"What I really want to do with my life - what I want to do for a living - is I want to be with your daughter. I'm good at it."
11394. TabouliJones - 8/31/2000 10:27:41 AM
Calgal, have you seen High Fidelity yet? If you like Cusack, you will love that movie.
11395. rubberducky - 8/31/2000 10:28:14 AM
Cusack?
bleh
11396. CalGal - 8/31/2000 10:28:18 AM
That's my favorite line in the movie. Very sweet.
11397. CalGal - 8/31/2000 10:29:17 AM
No, and I have to get around to seeing it because it has been a shitawful yaer for movies, and it is inexcusable for me to miss one of the few good ones of the year. I will see it soon.
11398. CalGal - 8/31/2000 10:29:47 AM
year. Good heavens, my typing.
And Ducky, I don't fuss at your picks.
11399. rubberducky - 8/31/2000 10:31:25 AM
well, yes.
but that's cuz my boys are cute!
11400. TabouliJones - 8/31/2000 10:34:04 AM
Decent new releases that I have seen in the last little while: High Fidelity, The Wonder Boys, The Cell, and the Tao of Steve. I may seen a couple of other decent new movies in the last little while, but nothing jumps to mind at the moment. So far it has been a mediocre year for movies.
11401. JudithAtHome - 8/31/2000 10:34:29 AM
Fraank:
I do love those ads about blown opportunities...the latest is about Larry and his idea while hiking of bottling water to take along....very funny!
11402. Cellar Door - 8/31/2000 12:45:20 PM
My faves so far: Time Regained, Paragraph 175, Croupier, 101 Rent Boys, Urbania, Full Blast, Beau Travail, Benjamin Smoke, Nuyorican Dream, Cecil B. Demented, Venus Beaute (Institut), Wonder Boys, Alice and Martin, Erin Brokovich, and Godzilla 2000.
11403. Fraaankster - 8/31/2000 1:32:21 PM
Judith,
I completely forgot about the water one. Another one I like is the one from Coinstar.It has a heavy set man being waited on by a waitress day in and day out, who places her tips (one coin) in the waitress's apron pocket much to her displeasure. Next, the scene cuts away showing the waitress converting her bucket of tips (change) in a Coinstar machine. The next time this man tries to "grope" her, by placing another coin in her apron, he is shocked by a stun gun she has placed in her apron pocket, supposedly bought by all her coins that she had converted to this purchase.
Glenda,
(11386)
That commercial is like a freeway accident. You don't want to look at it, but you end up doing it anyway. Nothing like getting a kid's mentality prepared for the corporate world, huh ?
11404. Jack Vincennes - 8/31/2000 1:46:53 PM
2000 films I recommend highly
High Fidelity
Croupier
2000 films I recommend
Boiler Room
Gladiator
Hamlet
What Lies Beneath
2000 films I hope to see and be able to recommend:
The Original Kings of Comedy
Jesus' Son
Wonderland
Chuck and Buck
East is East
The Eyes of Tammy Faye
The Life and Times of Hank Greenberg
The Tao of Steve
11405. EricCartman - 8/31/2000 3:52:22 PM
High Fidelity is excellent. Looks like I will be acquiring a DVD player this weekend, and I expect that HF will be one of my first three purchases, along with South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut and The Man Who Would Be King. I don't go to the movies all that much, and HF was one of those where we damn near went to go see it a second time in the theater.
I've been itching to see all three of those again for a while, and none of the 20-odd DSS movie channels is showing much of anything besides Full Metal Jacket or Caddyshack (which are both great movies, but hell, I've seen each one of 'em a dozen times).
Anyway, I understand that some movies have a great deal of extra goodies on the DVD releases --interview, extra scenes, and the like. Any suggestions, Cal? (or anyone else for that matter)
BTW -- I recognized that Cusack line that TJ posted, but my personal favorite from that movie was, "Kickboxing -- the sport of the '90s." Only a quirky guy like Cusack could deliver a quirky line like that and not fuck it up.
11406. AytchMan - 8/31/2000 3:53:45 PM
The Latest In A Seemingly Endless Succession Of Survivor Updates:
Ohh...Sorry.
11407. CalGal - 8/31/2000 4:02:34 PM
hahahaahah!
I saw your name and thought, oh, it's time for the....hey, isn't that over? What's he posting here, for, then?
Seen any good flicks?
And is anyone but me watching Bull?
11408. AytchMan - 8/31/2000 4:20:48 PM
Saw U-571 at the cheapo-rama. Posted a review at aytchman.epinions but the short story is: huge historical gaffes and so-so acting but tons of action so adrenalin junkies won't care. 3 stars (of 5).
11409. CalGal - 8/31/2000 4:22:16 PM
Gawd, now we have to compete with epinions?
I kept on meaning to catch it. How was Jon Bon Jovi?
11410. PelleNilsson - 8/31/2000 4:26:44 PM
Trivium Did you know that in 1977 Congressman Les Aspin formally proposed Jerry Lewis for the Nobel Peace Prize?
11411. AytchMan - 8/31/2000 4:27:57 PM
Indistinguishable from the other second-rank actors. This includes the McConnatron.
11412. CalGal - 8/31/2000 4:28:26 PM
I did not know that.
His interminable Telethons?
11413. CalGal - 8/31/2000 4:29:19 PM
The McConnatron is a pretty lad, if a shade too easy going for me. One gets the sense that he has never had to care much about anything, and it shows.
11414. AytchMan - 8/31/2000 4:30:08 PM
Pelle--
There is some sidesplitting humor buried somewhere in your trivium.
11415. PelleNilsson - 8/31/2000 4:32:41 PM
I don't know the inner workings of congressman Aspin's mind but those would have played a part I suppose (a couple of them were televised here)
Lewis is of course a Chevalier de Legion d'Honneur.
11416. AytchMan - 8/31/2000 4:32:49 PM
cg--
I really haven't followed Bon Jovi. But any shortcomings in U-571 are not necessarily indicative of a lack of talent. The director made that perfectly clear from the outset of the movie.
11417. CalGal - 8/31/2000 4:35:14 PM
No, I was talking about McConnaughey. JBJ hasn't been around enough for comment.
11418. AytchMan - 8/31/2000 4:38:50 PM
Ahh.
But Bon Jovi has been in at least a half dozen movies. I've just managed to avoid them all.
11419. Cellar Door - 8/31/2000 4:42:13 PM
11420. SnowOwl - 9/1/2000 2:14:14 PM
Help! In an interview with people connected with the making of The Green Mile, a prison inmate refers to someone called Boulder Moran who "got time for dunking his mother in shit".
Does anyone know anything about this Boulder Moran and the incident, which I'm assuming is factual? A search has failed to turn anything up.
11421. glendajean - 9/1/2000 3:33:18 PM
Snow Owl -- what an unpleasant image. I'v never heard of the man. I saw the movie, but I don't even remember the line.
11422. SnowOwl - 9/1/2000 3:37:36 PM
glendajean,
That's the problem. It wasn't in the movie. The guy wasn't referred to in the movie, but in some sort of interview with people associated with making the movie.
I assist a group of Japanese people who translate movies and television programmes from English into Japanese. Without knowing anything about the guy or the incident it's a bit hard to help them understand what was being referred to.
11423. glendajean - 9/1/2000 3:39:22 PM
Oh. Sorry, I've never heard of him. Did you check web sites related to the movie or to Stephen King? He wrote the book.
11424. SnowOwl - 9/1/2000 3:42:04 PM
Thanks, glendajean. I have checked them out. I think it was probably some minor incident that one of the actual prison inmates interviewed in connection with the making of the film was relating.
It's a bit tricky though, since "dunking his mother in shit" could presumably mean anything from pushing her into a toilet to throwing her into a heap of animal manure.
11425. glendajean - 9/1/2000 3:50:54 PM
I supose, heh, heh, the distinction between one or the other is not much.
11426. jexster - 9/1/2000 8:46:27 PM
I noticed a poster at the Castro Theater for Paragraph 175, a favorite theme of mine - fags 'n fascists, starting 9/15.
Anyone know anything about the flick?
11427. jexster - 9/1/2000 9:47:02 PM
Forget prior message
Paragraph 175 examines the experiences of gay people in Europe during the Nazi era. The film uses intimate personal testimonies and haunting images to tell a moving and complex story of persecution and resistance. Paragraph 175 isn't yet in theaters. It will open on 9/13/2000.
11428. Cellar Door - 9/1/2000 11:26:17 PM
"Paragraph 175" is brilliant beyond words. Rob and Jeffrey's best film by a mile. Absolutely heart-stopping. If you think you know everything about this period of history, this film will prove you wrong. So many unforgettable moments I don't know where to begin. Don't miss it!
11429. jexster - 9/1/2000 11:55:53 PM
Thanks Cllr, I won't!
11430. CalGal - 9/2/2000 12:18:17 PM
Advise and Consent is on the Mystery Channel, for those of you who get digital. Just started.
11431. Cellar Door - 9/2/2000 12:21:05 PM
The Mystery Channel? What's the mystery in "Advise and Consent"?
11432. CalGal - 9/2/2000 12:24:07 PM
Don't know. Just a movie they're showing.
11433. JudithAtHome - 9/2/2000 5:02:12 PM
My husband has the best sense of humor...he just came back from the video rental place with a foreign movie he thought I'd like...it's called "Rosetta". He got a big chuckle out of that one!
11434. Cellar Door - 9/2/2000 6:14:26 PM
Yep. It's the Feel-Bad movie of the year.
11435. CalGal - 9/4/2000 9:04:58 PM
Hey, City on the Edge of Forever or Tomorrow or whatever it was is on the Star Trek marathon. Haven't seen that in a long time.
11436. TabouliJones - 9/5/2000 11:51:33 AM
This weekend I caught The Godfather and Casablanca on the big screen. Both were highly enjoyable, of course. The rep cinema showing the films is experiencing something of a renaissance lately, and there are some really good movies coming down the pipe.
The new owner also has a healthy sense of irreverance. Next week, he begins a series of "forgotten" films from the seventies and eighties, with introductions by director Bruce Mcdonald (Hard Core Logo, Road Kill, Highway 61). The first "forgotten" film: Deep Throat (yes Deep Throat). Time to dig out the old raincoat.
I also saw Cecil B. DeMented this weekend. It is meant to be a so-called good "bad" movie, but it is more annoying than enjoyable. Save for a couple of inspired bits, the movie is a waste of time. It is didactic and vapid to boot, hammering out the tedious point that mainstream American cinema is mostly gutless nonsense that is rotting the brains of the hoi polloi -- ad infinitum, ad nauseum, add this to this year's growing list of cinema disappointments.
11437. rubberducky - 9/6/2000 8:36:07 AM
agree with TabouliJones's review of Cecil. the point was just a wee bit over slammed home again & again & again ....
also, it seems that Waters has no care for his own characters, so i felt no compulsion to do the same. not a good idea for a movie to take.
overall, good point -much too over-done.
11438. Cellar Door - 9/6/2000 9:52:01 AM
(Lina Lamont voice) Well I liked it!
11439. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2000 4:26:21 PM
Cellar:
You were so right about the Rosetta movie....what a bummer!
Robert Altman has said he will move to France if George W. Bush is elected president...wonder if he wants company?
11440. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2000 4:35:21 PM
By the way, last night I watched Australia: Beyond the Fatal Shore done by Robert Hughes...it was fantastic! It's on again tonight for 2 hours and tomorrow night for 2 hours and anyone interested in superb TV should watch it on PBS.
11441. grannypatsy - 9/7/2000 6:53:58 PM
A fiend whose son is an actors agent aked him if he was ok. Vital question since actors contiue on strike. He said he was ok now but it will be really bad if actors can't sdettle. Oh dear, she said, what will you do. He thought a minute and answerd "paper oe plastic?.
11442. Cellar Door - 9/7/2000 7:01:26 PM
Or "chicken or fish?" A lot of them will end up as cater-waiters.
It really amazes me how at a time when corporations are making money hand over fist they're adamantly resistant to handing over even so much as the tiniest fathering to their employees.
11443. CalGal - 9/7/2000 7:11:33 PM
I'm often clueless, but I just heard about the strike recently and still haven't seen much coverage on it. Cellar, a link?
11444. Cellar Door - 9/7/2000 10:36:16 PM
Actually you should go to "Dogpile" and look through material on various search engines about the historyof the strike. It's been going on for months now you know.
11445. theDiva - 9/8/2000 8:38:53 AM
have I mentioned that this summer I have discovered and am now mad about Will and Grace?
11446. Cellar Door - 9/8/2000 10:36:17 AM
I had a feeling Karen might appeal to you.
11447. rubberducky - 9/8/2000 10:38:39 AM
tis a great show
one of the few, actually, i'm looking forward to watching in the new season.
glad they moved it to Thursday as i watch Friends as well. now, i only have two nights of tv to make time for -Sunday (FOX shows) and Thursdays on NBC
other than that, i'll watch the odd Daily Show and that's about it
11448. theDiva - 9/8/2000 10:40:11 AM
hahahahahahaha!!!!!
I absolutely adore her!
11449. Cellar Door - 9/8/2000 12:58:10 PM
And speaking of "Will & Grace," here's something I just ran across. Enjoy!
11450. rubberducky - 9/8/2000 1:02:33 PM
LOL
that is fucking hysterical
thanks for posting that!
11451. theDiva - 9/8/2000 1:03:26 PM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I love it!
11452. theDiva - 9/8/2000 1:04:24 PM
You know, I am utterly convinced that the character of Karen is based on a woman I worked with at RKO back in the early 80s. She is so much like Annie that it's unreal.
11453. rubberducky - 9/8/2000 3:59:31 PM
Rental Update:
rented The Settlement and i enjoyed it as did my date. a fun little movie that never really takes itself too seriously and just seems to want to entertain.
William Fichtner was great as a slime ball (his usual part, really) and John C. Reilly was .. well, competent. the rest of the cast did a good job turning in decent performances.
the story is centered on the 2 actors listed above as life insurance policy buyers who give money now in order to collect when the person croaks. well, if the person does croak. the 2 are on bad times (those damn doctors and their miracle cures) and are about to go bust when in plops a woman with a $2 million policy she'll sell for $500K. well, of course they have to go thru shady people to get the money and of course nothing is as it seems.
still, an enjoyable movie that is most defiantly worth a rental even if the ending isn't that hard to guess.
11454. rubberducky - 9/8/2000 4:00:43 PM
er, ... most definitely worth ...
11455. CalGal - 9/8/2000 4:04:15 PM
Fichtner is usually a slimeball? You must have only seen him in Go. He's an adorable pup, who started out playing sweet shy nice guys.
11456. rubberducky - 9/8/2000 4:10:54 PM
well
he was slime on Grace Under Fire (tv show), Go, and a filthy cheater in Drowning Mona
granted, i could be wrong, but he just seems slimy in everything i remember him in.
11457. CalGal - 9/8/2000 4:28:34 PM
He was slime in Grace Under Fire? When? I must have missed that.
Post-Go, I'm sure he'll get more work as a slime. He was awesome.
11458. JudithAtHome - 9/8/2000 4:38:49 PM
Anyone heard anything good about Way of the Gun ?
11459. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 4:58:21 PM
I have read quite a few good reviews of it, with favorable comparisons to Pulp Fiction, Wild Bunch, and Usual Suspects. No one yet has called it a masterpiece, but the reviews remind me of those for "Go" last year.
11460. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 4:58:44 PM
Nurse Betty has also gotten a lot of solid reviews.
11461. CalGal - 9/8/2000 5:03:04 PM
Yes, Nurse Betty looks fun and Freeman is getting good reviews--as is Kinnear. Zellwegger always seems to play the same person, though. I hope The Way of the Gun does well--it's always nice to see Caan working.
11462. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 5:05:21 PM
Its the first time in months that anything has opened that I have wanted to see. You can tell how sad it was when my brother (who is staying with us for a few months) offered to watch the Little Raskol for the evening and the most interesting thing to see was "Space Cowboys".
Ugh.
11463. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 5:06:41 PM
Oh, and the one other film that most critics are using to compare with Way of the Gun is "Blood Simple". A good sign. I might have to double feature it this weekend.
11464. CalGal - 9/8/2000 5:08:53 PM
Rask,
I know. Although I actually enjoyed Space Cowboys. But it should have been a weak entry for the summer. It's tragic.
I don't have a car this weekend, but I may toddle on down to the Winchester to catch one of them.
11465. stostosto - 9/8/2000 5:10:42 PM
Yo, Rask, did you see my response to your question in the Slow Thread?
11466. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 5:11:22 PM
I thought the first half of Space Cowboys was formulaic, but very nice. As soon as they go in space, however, it becomes one of the worst films in years.
11467. CalGal - 9/8/2000 5:13:16 PM
Really? I didn't think it was that bad. I thought the noticeable split between sit com and "action picture" was weak, and the story was even weaker, but I liked the satellite CGI sequences quite a bit. Very pretty--and I don't usually care about such stuff.
11468. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 5:13:17 PM
Sto, yes I did, thanks. Sorry for not thanking you earlier. I need to make an academic library run next week anyway, so I'll probably look it up then.
11469. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 5:18:40 PM
It was just an utterly horrible action film. Nothing made sense whatsoever, from story to the character motivations. And the film's science had me laughing out loud. Maybe I have just been spoiled by too many NASA films like Apollo 13 or Right Stuff that really tried to get the details right, but it was very distracting at moments which were supposed to be moving or suspenseful.
Spoiler
For instance, no one yes yet offered a satisfactory explanation for why Tommy Lee Jones had to strap himself to the rockets.
11470. boohab - 9/8/2000 5:41:32 PM
surprise!
11471. CalGal - 9/8/2000 5:42:59 PM
HEY!!!!
Great to see you, boo!
Rask,
No argument from me about the plot. I just didn't have any real expectations for believability. I didn't think of it as a grade-A actioner.
BTW, have you seen the From the Earth to the Moon series?
11472. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 5:44:32 PM
Only the first couple episodes.
11473. CalGal - 9/8/2000 5:49:30 PM
I think you can queue it up on Netflix. I very much enjoyed them, particularly 4-7, and 10-12.
11474. Raskolnikov - 9/8/2000 5:55:36 PM
I do have it queued at Netflix. It is just at number 150 or so out of 375.
11475. boohab - 9/8/2000 6:27:51 PM
the art of war' with my boy snipes is better than the sniping reviews. it is a bond flick, but better. this one is pulled off with a modicum of style, a complicated and twisty plot, and a nicely politically plausible scenario. very much like a ludlum novel, you are not quite sure who is good or evil until the very end, and the weary hero works to extricate himself from all geopolitics.
much like geopolitics, the exposition in 'the art of war' is often murky, the plot doesn't careen forward as crisply as in similar fare such as denzel washington's better 'the siege'. nor is snipes' character drawn with as much emotional weight in this picture as compared to his last fugitive exercise in 'u.s. marshals'.
nevertheless this picture succeeds for many reasons, not the least of which is the bravado of the plot in the post-vietnam, post-cold war, post-gulf war trough of spy subject matter. watching this film was intriguing. there was a mix of slightly suspended disbelief coupled with a bit of dramatic tension and a fair amount of action. yet i can see how some folks, just dying for some pure action, pure drama or pure intrigue could lose patience with 'the art of war'.
once again snipes situates himself among a well-casted mix who