Conspiracy on HBO. Great movie. Must see.
Me, too. TV in general has been pretty sad this last year.
20259. Erin R. - 5/24/2001 2:57:41 PM
We need better TV shows. I know I could have done a better job with Voyager's last season.
20260. Cellar Door - 5/24/2001 10:27:48 PM
I have been asked to be a judge at this year's San Francisco Gay & Lesbian Film festival.
Therefore I shall be in The City for a few days towards the end of June.
Ducastel & Martineau are coming as well with Adventures of Felix.
Much fun!
20261. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 1:22:39 AM
Conspiracy on HBO. Great movie. Must see.
20262. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 1:22:58 AM
20263. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 1:31:10 AM
This movie illustrates what Hannah Arendt meant by "the banality of evil." There are no mu-hwa-hawa laughs here (well, actually, there are a couple). But mainly these guys act like mid-level managers at a coporate training get-away.
What's weird is that I kept looking for a hero here. I know these guys are Nazis; but it's still a movie, and I was still looking for a "good guy." The guy who comes closest is Dr. Kitzinger, who argues against anhiliating the Jews. Purge them, separate them, deprive them of liberty-- yes! But kill them-- No. He's the film's "conscience." But, of course, even his "conscience" gives way once Heydrich (Kenneth Brannagh) threatens him a bit.
And then there's Colin Firth as the lawyer who crafted the Nuremburg race laws. He seems, at first, to be a Jewish sympathizer... but then we learn he despises Jews more than half of the people at the table. He just wants to purge them... "legally." Whatever that could mean in this context.
And then there's an SS captain who's uncomfortable with killing Jews, and doesn't want to do it.
So, there are the film's "heroes." Three guys who are uncomfortable, for one reason or another, at the thought of exterminating a race. But they all agree to do it anyway.
Kenneth Brannagh is great as Heydrich. No muu-hwa-haws from him. Everything is said with a polite smile.
A really, really terrific and disturbing film. Based, apparently, almost entirely on the exact word-for-word minutes of the meeting, so there's little Hollywoodization. (Although there are a few private discussions which, presumably, had to be written.)
20264. PelleNilsson - 5/25/2001 2:51:26 AM
20265. rubberducky - 5/25/2001 10:58:05 AM
the last episode of Star Trek: Voyager was pretty good (just watched the tape i made last night).
took too long to get to the action, but that is pretty normal. i liked the First Contact tie-in.
decent stuff, but they could have addressed what happened to the marquis members, but oh well.
20266. Fielding - 5/25/2001 11:06:11 AM
Cellar:
"I have been asked to be a judge at this year's San Francisco Gay & Lesbian Film festival."
That's great!
Just one question. How do you determine what qualifies as a "Gay & Lesbian" film?
20267. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 11:38:35 AM
They are entered in the festival? Might be a clue. :-)
20268. Fielding - 5/25/2001 11:47:28 AM
Yes, but would they accept anything that was submitted? For example, Eyes Wide Shut had Alan Cumming in a small role, and Tom Cruise . . . well, you get my point.
20269. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 11:52:53 AM
I'm sure Cellar will fill us in on the criteria...but a Tome Cruise movie ought to qualify since Tome Cruise is...well, you know the drill.
Did anyone see the newwsfilm of that floor collapsing at the hotel in...Israel?...where 24 people died? Home movies...it looked like special effects gone awry.
20270. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 11:55:20 AM
It was Jerusalem and 25 are dead, so far. It was a wedding reception so lots of video cameras were running...it was astonishing video.
20271. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 12:27:02 PM
Review of Pearl Harbor
The Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbor that brought the United States into World War II has inspired a splendid movie, full of vivid performances and unforgettable scenes, a movie that uses the coming of war as a backdrop for individual stories of love, ambition, heroism and betrayal. The name of that movie is "From Here to Eternity."
"Pearl Harbor," the noisy, expensive and very long new blockbuster from Jerry Bruckheimer and Michael Bay, steals an occasional glance in the direction of "Eternity," Fred Zinnemann's durable 1953 melodrama, adapted from James Jones's sprawling best seller.
Another review calls it "a film which will live in infamy".
20272. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 12:32:30 PM
The NYT observes the relevant historical paraphrase comes from Winston Churchill: Never before have so many spent so much on so little.
20273. LadyChaos - 5/25/2001 1:15:51 PM
Well, I'd gloat about the reviews that Pearl Harbor has received, but I think that most here would agree that those reviews were to be expected.
Having said that, I could even be tempted to see it, just for the sport of arguing with Ace over why Bay is a crappy director.
20274. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 1:19:07 PM
Bay apparently resorts to his typical abbatoir-style editing technique in even this film, which one would imagine could be edited in a more mature, less frenetically childish manner.
20275. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 1:21:45 PM
I mean, Pearl Harbor seems suitable for an audience beyond ADD-afflicted fourteen-year-old boys.
So Bay has made a concession to the potentially broader demographic... he no features very few one-third of a second cuts. Instead, he features half-second cuts.
20276. Fielding - 5/25/2001 1:26:09 PM
"I mean, Pearl Harbor seems suitable for an audience beyond ADD-afflicted fourteen-year-old boys.
So Bay has made a concession to the potentially broader demographic... he no features very few one-third of a second cuts. Instead, he features half-second cuts."
LOL!
20277. LadyChaos - 5/25/2001 3:44:22 PM
Ace,
Those "half-second cuts" are probably to acknowledge that PH is an "epic."
Btw, I am interested in seeing "Conspiracy," but don't get HBO. Do they release these things on rental video, eventually?
When I was living in Prague, I tried to help launch a project based on the assassination of Heydrich. One of the most difficult challenges, had the project gone forward, would have been casting Heydrich, who was a singular-looking fellow. I am interested in seeing Branagh's portrayal of him.
P.S. A rather bad version of the Heydrich assassination story was made in the mid-seventies, featuring Timothy Bottoms as one of the Czech parachutists. It had lots of awful WWII espionage cliches, including a beautiful young resistance fighter given to wearing dark berets and a beige trenchcoat.
20278. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 4:03:36 PM
Btw, I am interested in seeing "Conspiracy," but don't get HBO. Do they release these things on rental video, eventually?
Yes. Although I wouldn't count on seeing advertisements for its availability.
"I am interested in seeing Branagh's portrayal of him."
He played him like a mid-level corporate brand-recognition manager for The Olive Garden.
20279. CalGal - 5/25/2001 4:16:38 PM
Lady,
Yes, they do eventually come out on video. The conference was presented as having taken place in a very corporate way--we want to hear from everyone and make it unanimous, yes?
20280. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 4:20:57 PM
Oh bull...he was great in the role. And Stanley Tucci was great as Eichmann. I didn't sit there thinking, "Oh look...it's the guy from Big Night and Emma Thompsons ex-husband", in other words.
20281. LadyChaos - 5/25/2001 4:21:23 PM
CalGal,
Yes, I suppose there are only so many ways that you can portray a meeting.
20282. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 4:29:10 PM
LadyC:
I don't think you'd be disappointed in Branaghs performance.
20283. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 4:29:59 PM
JAH,
I said above that he was "great." My line about the Olive Garden is not meant as derogatory; it just means that he portrayed evil in a banal, friendly, scrub-faced-and-politely-smiling way.
20284. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 4:35:20 PM
I thought he was very, very good. I thought all the actors were great.
The one exception is Stanley Tucci. It's not that he wasn't good; it's just that he didn't say three words in the entire movie. I find it difficult to rate a performance as "great" if an actor is barely in the movie, and just takes notes or looks around when he is in the movie.
Some will call this "perfectly understated." I call it "the kind of role I could easily play." You want me to sit there and listen to people? In a Nazi SS uniform? I don't call this "acting"; I call it "Saturday night, out with the boys."
So, was he bad? No. But he had so little to do it's hard to say he was good or bad.
20285. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 4:36:33 PM
Oh, well then..I agree with you. I have such an aversion to Olive Garden that I may have misinterpreted your remark.
20286. CalGal - 5/25/2001 4:41:04 PM
Branagh did exceptionally well, I thought.
Tucci was very good in his one speech near the end. Other than that, it was more a matter of his physical presence--he didn't have much to do. But he used his presence well.
Firth was superb, as was the little guy playing Hoffman (the one who got ill near the end and said it was the cigar).
But then, all of the acting was top-notch--which is what you need for a movie about a meeting.
20287. JudithAtHome - 5/25/2001 4:41:13 PM
I think Tucci gave an understated performance, true, but he managed with his actions and eyes to convey his was very apprehensive about measuring up and also, when he was dealing with the staff, he became very self assured and pompous...his actions around the table and his reactions to the slightest thing Heydrich said were a picture of toadying and submissiveness to the stronger personality. I think he did very well...at least for me, he did.
20288. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 4:43:32 PM
Tucci did just fine. No complaints. I'm just saying -- it's like asking another writer to rewrite your script. He decides your script is okay and returns it without any changes.
Now, did he do a good "rewriting job"? He might have made the right decision and served his function, yes. But can we say he did a great job of rewriting?
Tucci was fine. But he just sat there in an SS uniform. Which, as I say, I do every Saturday night, and no one gives me a Peabody Award for it.
20289. CalGal - 5/25/2001 4:45:11 PM
his actions around the table and his reactions to the slightest thing Heydrich said were a picture of toadying and submissiveness to the stronger personality.
That's funny, it didn't strike me as "toadying" at all.
20290. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 4:48:26 PM
when he was dealing with the staff, he became very self assured and pompous...
Oh yeah. He slapped a soldier towards the end. I forgot about that.
Still, he was obviously not carrying the weight of the film. Brannagh, Firth, the SS officer from Riga, Klopfer, the little guy who got sick, the reddish-haired manager of the Polish ghettoes, and Dr. Kitzinger were the main players.
Tucci was a secretary. Which is fine -- that's what Eichman was. An adjutant; a lackey. But he wasn't involved in any of the conflicts.
20291. CalGal - 5/25/2001 4:53:12 PM
The scene outside with Branagh and Firth was wonderful.
"Look, this is going to happen. The SS is going to take over the running of it, and they are going to note who is enthusiastic and who isn't and you are going to have to make a choice just like everyone else. But are you going to make your choice and make it known now, just because some fat inconsequential prick is pissing you off?"
20292. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 5:05:27 PM
Vertical Limit -- Two and a half stars
Pretty much this is the script everyone wanted to write after they read the Everest-disaster book "Into Thin Air" (great book, by the way). But, instead of a disaster on Everest, it's a lost expedition on K2, a mountain which is an even tougher technical climb than Everest. Except this story has guys climbing up the mountain with some ridiculously unstable nitroglycerine in their backpacks.
If avalalanches and falls off a 26,000 ft tall mountain aren't enough, just throw in some nitroglycerine for some huge explosions.
That said, the film is decent; I'm tempted to give it three stars, because it doesn't suck, but not quite tempted enough.
THIS is how CGI should be done: CGI provides breathtaking backgrounds and incidental elements to the foreground action; you can't really tell it's CGI. It looks good. And, if you get the DVD, you get a huge number of featurettes on the special effects (and seeing them paint mountain landscapes over bluescreen is soooo cool) including a National Geographic documentary. The director (Martin Cambpell, Goldeneye) and producer provide audio-track commentary; while occasionally interesting, it's chiefly both men agreeing that each and every scene and performance is "great," "lovely," and/or "extraodinary" or some combination thereof.
20293. CalGal - 5/25/2001 5:07:18 PM
It was such a fun movie. I had a ball. My only complaint is that it cried out for Keanu Reeve and instead we were stuck with Chris O'Donnell.
20294. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 5:14:07 PM
The story: A Richard Branson type tycoon --except he's a brash Texan rather than a Brit -- pays Robin Tunney and a master-climber to take him to the top of K2 as a publicity stunt for his new airline.
Well, Robin Tunney (who, unfortunately, does not show her boobs in this picture) is the brother of Chris O'Donnell (only 75% as annoying as he usually is). And see, in the teaser, they're rockclimbing with Dad and... well, did you see Cliffhanger? Let's just say that when friends and family are rock-climbing in the beginning of the film, the sequence ain't gonna end with a picnic.
So, years later, Chris O'Donnel has given up climbing; Robin Tunney is even more determined to become a champion climber, and is in fact one of the best female climbers in the world. And she's so gung-ho to get to the top of K2 that she ignores the fact that a serious storm is coming... which is okay with billionare Paxton, because he doesn't care about the storm either.
The storm strikes. Paxton and Tunney are buried in a sort-of fake-looking ice cave. And now Chris O'Donnel and a team of five other climbers (including Scott Glen, playing the obligatory burnt-out, cynical, world-weary older expert) now have to carry lots and lots (and I mean LOTS) of nitroglycerine up the mountain to blow open the ice-cave Sis is trapped in.
Wait... didn't they get stuck in the cave because of an avalanche? Won't the nitroglycerine -- especially the industrial-sized tanks these boys are carrying -- cause even WORSE avalanches?
Not to worry. In true disaster picture style, there will be poignant deaths and noble sacrifices and even long-sought vengeance, but rest assured the youngest, and prettiest, people will survive.
20295. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 5:14:18 PM
The film is competent. It begins much, much better than its middle or end; in the beginning, you're ready for a really good movie. But while it's not really all that good, it's not terrible, either. So it's worth a rental, especially on DVD.
20296. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 5:28:52 PM
Dungeons and Dragons -- one half star
Make your saving roll against "Crap;" you need to roll a natural twenty to avoid being alternately bored by this film's insipid banality and angered by its incompetence and cut-and-paste swipes from better movies (all of which you've seen before, by the way... how come crappy movies have to steal from the same top twenty movies of all time, rather than from lesser-known films?)
Is there comic relief? IS THERE EVER!! You have a black guy shucking and jiving and whose eyes virtually bug out when he's scared with a cry of "Feets don't fails me now!" You've got a very ugly dwarf with a very fake-looking red beard whose dialogue you can't understand, although he sounds a bit like a seedy Popeye, and who eats like a pig.
And the special effects! Why, there are guys walking around with bright purple and bright green face masks; they're supposed to be... I dunno, aliens from the Star Wars cantina, perhaps. Who knows? And then you have lots of footage shot in Prague... supposedly. As far as I can tell, all city exteriors are CGI. Bad CGI. Bad videogame CGI.
20297. AceofSpades - 5/25/2001 5:29:00 PM
And at the end some dragons fight each other. There are Red Dragons, controlled by the Evil Wizard's Rod of Red Dragon Control, which is also called the Rod of Seville, and there are Gold Dragons, controlled by the Good Empress' Rod of Gold Dragon Control, which I THOUGHT was ALSO called the "Rod of Seville," or something, and I can't quite figure out how both people can control dragons since the whole plot involved getting the one rod that could control dragons... but then, I don't understand the whole middle of the film (the tenth minute to the hundredth minute), because it really makes no sense at all.
It's not that it's complicated. It's just really inept.
Did I mention that Jeremy Irons plays the Evil Wizard? Yuhp. He's in the film for, oh... six or seven minutes. About five or six days on the set.
Is he good?
IS HE EVER!!!
20298. LadyChaos - 5/25/2001 5:29:09 PM
This paragraph from the Miami Herald's Review of Pearl Harbor probably sums up the problem with Michael Bay about as well as anything I have read:
The attack --which, along with its aftermath, consumes nearly an hour of screen time -- is the main lure for the millions who will be lining up to see Pearl Harbor this weekend. It's the irresistible hook of an otherwise mundane movie, but even this doesn't pay off the way it should. Men are shot, drowned, blasted to smithereens, and the havoc washes over you, entrancing the eye but never engaging the emotions. In Saving Private Ryan, Steven Spielberg captured the visceral rush of combat and the inconceivable pain and terror felt by the soldiers. In Pearl Harbor, the destruction is dazzling, but you don't feel a thing. It's all smoke and fireballs, spectacle without any real punch.
20299. LadyChaos - 5/25/2001 5:50:49 PM
And this:
...was it too much to ask for a trace of intelligence, or maturity, or even insight? When Rafe and Danny board their planes and take off into the sky to do battle with the bad guys, they might as well be Luke Skywalker and Han Solo blasting tie fighters out of the sky.
20300. LadyChaos - 5/26/2001 11:28:41 AM
Sheesh, can I kill a thread, or what?
20301. LadyChaos - 5/26/2001 11:32:16 AM
Only Kevin Thomas of the LA Times seems to be on the Michael Bay payroll.
20302. Cellar Door - 5/26/2001 11:52:04 AM
And thereby hangs a tale. Kevin is the Will Rogers of film critics. He's never met a movie he didn't like. I have no doubt that all manner of brass-knuckle threats -- like denial of advertising -- was made by Disney to the L.A. Times to force them to have Kevin write the review.
I've linked Frank Rich's column on "Pearl Harbor" in "American Politics."
20303. JudithAtHome - 5/26/2001 12:25:08 PM
Our local paper is owned by the Disneyites and you could certainly tell it by the review written by our "critic"...he raved over the damned thing and this is so unlike his usual critical reviews. He has taken a hard line that I respect on movies that are mainstream "hits" and done some good film criticism...until yesterday. I'm disappointed in this guy because he has been very believable up to now.
20304. LadyChaos - 5/26/2001 4:10:27 PM
Judith,
It goes to show that even intelligent people can get swept up by the hype.
Butt-buddies Bay and Bruck'n'Hammer ain't gettin' a dime of my money, no way no how.
20305. JudithAtHome - 5/26/2001 6:36:10 PM
LC:
I'm not so sure he is caught up in the hype so much as trying to protect his ass...the paper is paring down and I read in the alternative weekly that many who work there are quaking in their boots that they wil get the ax. The paper is owned by the conglomerate who put out this drecky film.
20306. arkymalarky - 5/26/2001 7:05:48 PM
I tried to warn her. I tried to tell her all the stories I'd heard. I talked about the cost, the time not to be retrieved, the fact that it's ok to be different--just because "everyone else is doing it" is no reason to follow the herd.
But she did it anyway...
She went to see Pearl Harbor--
AND SHE LIKED IT!!
Where have I gone wrong? What kind of parent must I be? Oh, the shame.
20307. LadyChaos - 5/26/2001 7:10:51 PM
Oh, the humanity!
I didn't know that Disney had bought the LA Times.
Cellar,
I'm going to have about a week to myself at the end of July-beginning of August, and I'm considering a visit to LA-LA Land. Would you be up for a drink at the Formasa 'round then?
20308. Toenails - 5/26/2001 9:07:53 PM
If it's true that Disney owns the Times, then one would think that the reviewer for the L.A. Times would mention that little conflict in his review. Did he?
20309. AceofSpades - 5/26/2001 9:30:54 PM
From what I've read, the LAT has had an incestuous and overly-friendly, overly-protective relationship with Hollywood for quite some time.
LA is a company town.
20310. AceofSpades - 5/26/2001 9:34:25 PM
It also should be noted that many reviewers are loathe to give a bad review to a huge event film.
Ebert, for example, gave a fairly positive review to The Phantom Menace. Many reviewers gave Godzilla a fairly charitable review.
I think that when it comes to big popcorn movies, reviewers are victims of "learned futility." They've given so many negative reviews to popcorn pictures that end up making a lot of money they've decided that they're sort of clueless when it comes to evaluating such movies. So often they don't even try to really critique such films; they simply note that the film will satisfy its intended audience, or whatever. Which isn't really a critique or review.
20311. AceofSpades - 5/26/2001 9:39:12 PM
Most reviews of Die Hard, for example, were middling-to-slightly-positive. Time magazine's old-fart reviewer was particularly clueless, giving the film only the most grudging of credit for its script and direction. But few reviewers understood they were watching one of the most influential movies of the eighties and nineties.
Movie critics, by and large, are pretty stupid. Or perhaps "stupid" isn't the right word; let's just say that someone who watches 300-400 films per year (major releases, film festivals, revivals, research for film-mag critiques) has a different perspective on the movies from the average movie goer.
20312. AceofSpades - 5/26/2001 9:52:19 PM
One thing I find completely unfair is reviewers' constant sniping that Pearl Harbor is "timid" for portraying the Japanese so positively.
How ludicrous. This is a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. Had Bay depicted the Japanese as ruthless Imperialists who had savaged China and Korea with barbaric rapes, the critics would have cried "jingoism" and "racism" and the like. Does ANYONE doubt this?
So, the filmmakers soft-pedal the Japanese's fairly warlike attitudes and the critics all bleat "timid" and "PC." "Why, the Japanese are painted as noble warriors forced into a war they didn't want," reviewers complain.
Well, what the fuck did you expect? After playing the roll of PC Police for twenty years, now you complain that the "criminals" aren't breaking the law anymore?
20313. Cellar Door - 5/26/2001 9:52:22 PM
I most surely would, Lady C!
20314. Cellar Door - 5/27/2001 9:20:35 AM
20315. JudithAtHome - 5/27/2001 10:11:49 AM
Ace:
I think the reasons for portraying the Japanese the way they did has nothing to do with PCism at all but rather with the bottom line...they soft-pedaled the take on them so the Japanese would flock to movie in droves and slap down their yen to see the damned thing.
It's like changing Gone With the Wind so the South won in order to lure all the patrons in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi to the theatres.
20316. Indiana Jones - 5/27/2001 10:45:05 AM
Saw Fargo. I'm by no means an authority on the Coen brothers, but it occurred to me that they may have a limited palette of characters after watching this film. Francis McDormand's sheriff reminded me of Ed, and the two kidnappers reminded me of Hi's prison buddies with a litte of the lone biker of the Apocalypse added in for the Gaear Grimsrud character. You have a kidnapping, and the father who endures his daughter's kidnapping is pretty much the same kind of guy as Nathan Arizona, who also had his daughter kidnapped--though this control-freak, ball-breaking father apparently has less humor to him.
The cinematography reminded me of Miller's Crossing.
The main reason I think the sense of repeated "ingredients" stood out was Fargo is an ingredients film. Lots of nice bits and bobs, but I'm not sure that it eventually hangs together. William Macy's character shows some promise, for example, but then goes nowhere. What's with the little Japanese rendevous that Frances McDormand has? For sure that should have been on the cutting room floor.
As a pastiche of Columbo, the film sort of works: the crooks are consistently inept bumblers, the witnesses unhelpful, and the sheriff eventually catches them by the sheer luck of driving by and seeing their car. Not that catching them really accomplishes much because they've all succeeded in screwing themselves over worse than the system ever could, while losing 92 percent of the ransom money.
Two and a half stars.
20317. JudithAtHome - 5/27/2001 11:07:19 AM
We watched Before Night Falls and I think Javier Bardem was robbed of an Oscar. The film was wonderful...beautifully and artistically shot and very well put together. The scene of Reinaldos taxi ride home from the hospital, with the intercuts of the streets of Havana, were very well done. I loved this movie and think it was a great effort, effectively done.
And if that was, indeed, Johnny Depps ass...all I can say is, now I understand what all the hoopla is about over his "beauty"!
20318. LadyChaos - 5/27/2001 2:47:57 PM
Indy,
It's clear that Fargo suffered from some severe editing, which is why the backstory of McDormand's rendezvous never quite makes sense. But all in all, I enjoyed the film as a pleasant black comedy.
I recommend Barton Fink, if you haven't seen it. It does a good job of putting you in the state of mind of a writer who's losing his mind.
20319. Indiana Jones - 5/27/2001 11:00:47 PM
It's clear that Fargo suffered from some severe editing, which is why the backstory of McDormand's rendezvous never quite makes sense.
LC: Yes, that's probably the explanation--which is kind of strange considering the film is only 98 minutes. I don't know what they took out, but I would have cut the rendezvous entirely and plumped the rest up with something to make it gel. Other loose ends: the teenage son, the serial numbers that were faxed (yeah, that's probably why the William Macy character is in trouble to start with, but still--exactly what is he blowing money on?), the American Indian who beats the crap out of one of the kidnappers, the father's sidekick/adviser. IMO it's almost all loose ends.
It also sort of bugged me that the wife survived falling down the stairs and the shootout when the highway patrolman pulls them over, and yet she is apparently shot off camera for "irritating" Gaear Grimsrud. Why not have her die at the start if you're going to be so cavalier about it later? That's just a quibble, but I have a lot of quibbles about this film.
20320. LadyChaos - 5/27/2001 11:22:17 PM
Indy,
There was apparently some backstory about MacDormand and her husband being in a marital crisis of some sort that was edited out. You get hints of it toward the end, when hubby mentions having sold a painting of his to the Postal service for use on a stamp. The former editor in me picked up on this immediately, and figured that they probably shot a good deal of material explaining this, but decided to cut it in favor of emphasizing the black comedy aspect. It was probably a good thing, but they left just enough loose ends dangling to make it annoying.
Otherwise, I didn't have a problem with the film at all.
20321. CalGal - 5/27/2001 11:31:37 PM
It is another in the list of movies where I simply can't really like anyone involved in the main plot. McDormand's character was as close as it got, and even she was annoying. Although I did like her police work at the beginning.
The main plot relied on everyone being like George in Seinfeld.
The murder scene at the beginning was incredibly powerful. I still get panicky when I think of it.
20322. Fielding - 5/27/2001 11:39:51 PM
Pearl Harbor made 38 million in its first two days, which is HUGE disappointment. The movie is officially a bomb. I wouldn't be surprised if Shrek outgrosses Pearl Harbor.
It won't be remembered as a bomb on the level of Ishtar, but it will be the biggest disappointment of the year, and will slow down Michael Bay's career.
20323. CalGal - 5/27/2001 11:42:17 PM
Yes, I read that it didn't do that well, but the weekend wasn't over. How wonderful!
20324. Cellar Door - 5/27/2001 11:50:22 PM
I passed by a multiplex yesterday afternoon where "Pearl Harbor" was playing. A huge crowd of kids was outside waiting in line.
They were all going to see "Shrek"
20325. CalGal - 5/27/2001 11:56:22 PM
Shrek is terrific.
20326. Fielding - 5/28/2001 12:21:32 AM
It's no Chicken Run.
20327. CalGal - 5/28/2001 12:27:45 AM
I liked Chicken Run a great deal, but I think I'd give the nod to Shrek. I'm looking forward to seeing it again.
20328. Fielding - 5/28/2001 10:49:15 AM
:-(~~~~~~
20329. JudithAtHome - 5/28/2001 12:26:37 PM
We or rather I, watched Urbania last night...husband fell asleep. It was intriguing; told in flashback and current time which took awhile to figure out. All the urban legends included in the story were portrayed rather naturally but the entire film was so much an urban legend in itself, you had to work to make sense of it. Cleverly done and a sadness afterward that sticks with you.
The main character, Charley, is aimlessly wandering around NYC and runs into many different people along the way. He is saddened by something and as the story progresses, we think we learn why. The theme of the entire experience is "Heard any good stories lately?" and we do, as urbam legends are played out in flashback while being related to Charley. With the end of the movie, all is revealed...surprisingly.
20330. LadyChaos - 5/28/2001 6:53:02 PM
Fielding,
You can't really compare weekend box office receipts between one movie that runs over three hours and another that runs under two, since a lot of it depends on how often exhibitors are able to turn the film in a day. More telling will be whether receipts hold steady over a period of weeks, or start to fall off as word of mouth gets around. Early reports seem to favor repeat business from -- get this -- teenage girls (who apparently liked the "love triangle" aspect).
This is not good.
20331. Cellar Door - 5/28/2001 9:44:48 PM
20332. Ms. No - 5/28/2001 10:30:52 PM
Oh, wow! How incredibly cool! I went to highschool with Peter Paige. I had to go and look him up to see if it was actually him but I'm thrilled to see he's doing so well AND that he finally came out of the closet. Right on!!!
Hmmm.....I wonder if he's going to the 15 year reunion?
20333. JudithAtHome - 5/28/2001 11:04:47 PM
Cellar:
Thanks for the picture and link for Jon Shear...I loved the movie! Did you?
20334. JudithAtHome - 5/28/2001 11:06:35 PM
MsNO:
15 year reunion? Neophyte!
20335. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 12:25:24 AM
It's a tough job but somebody's got to do it!
In fifteen minutes I leave to see Moulin Rouge. Can't wait!
20336. Wombat - 5/29/2001 10:29:43 AM
Saw "Pearl Harbor." Dear God. A love story broken up up by a lot of explosions and ships sinking. If you took out all the extraneous stuff it would be about 60 minutes long. "Tora, Tora, Tora" has it beat all hollow. The National Geographic documentary about Pearl Harbor on NBC on Sunday was excellent.
If I can bring myself to do so, I'll discuss the "historical" aspects of the film over in History. Those who want to start without me, please do so.
20337. Cellar Door - 5/29/2001 10:55:45 AM
I'm crazy about the movie, Judith. It manages to cover a lot of very interesting and complex ground gracefully. I especially loved the way the friendship between Dan Futterman and Alan Cumming was dealt with. It rang ever-so-true.
20338. Fielding - 5/29/2001 11:44:38 AM
Mea Culpa. While surely a box office disappointment, I got a bit carried away in calling Pearl Harbor a bomb. Even if it only breaks even domestically, which is still a possibility, it will make a lot of money overseas.
20339. Fielding - 5/29/2001 11:55:21 AM
Lady Chaos:
You can't really compare weekend box office receipts between one movie that runs over three hours and another that runs under two, since a lot of it depends on how often exhibitors are able to turn the film in a day. More telling will be whether receipts hold steady over a period of weeks, or start to fall off as word of mouth gets around. Early reports seem to favor repeat business from -- get this -- teenage girls (who apparently liked the "love triangle" aspect).
Actually, you can. The film producer community starts deciding whether a film is a hit or a miss by the opening Friday night. Hollywood knows the Box Office status of 90% of studio releases by the Saturday morning. Nonetheless, if your point is that jury is still out on Pearl Harbor, I agree with you.
Pearl Harbor was designed with teenage girls in mind. Indeed, it was teenage girls who made Titanic the huge hit it became, and Pearl Harbor intended to follow the Titanic formula. The majority of Titanic's repeat viewings were among teenage girls.
20340. rubberducky - 5/29/2001 11:59:32 AM
i have no idea why you are calling Pearl Harbor a bomb
The World War II epic "Pearl Harbor," one of the most heavily marketed films of the year, opened at No. 1 at the four-day Memorial Day holiday weekend box office with ticket sales of about $75.1 million, according to studio estimates issued on Monday.
The Walt Disney Co. film ranks second on the four-day list, between "The Lost World: Jurassic Park," which opened with $90.1 million during the Memorial Day holiday weekend in 1997, and "Mission: Impossible 2," with $70.8 million (Memorial Day 2000).
yes, it fell from some ridiclous 'predicitions' but it has made a little over half the production costs in the 1st 4 days. to think it will only break even domestically is silly imo.
20341. JudithAtHome - 5/29/2001 12:28:24 PM
Just saw some clips of that skinny kid from Freaks and Geeks playing James Dean in the TV movie of his life...he's got that gawky, quirky thing down pat and looks fantastically like James Dean. It's on August 5 on TNT.
20342. Fielding - 5/29/2001 12:34:25 PM
Ducks:
I already posted that my "bomb" reference was an overstatement.
Nonetheless, your post understates Pearl Harbor's costs. The production costs were $150 million (a record), but that does not include marketing. Also, the exhibitors keep a percentage of the film's gross revenues, and that percentage goes up after two weeks. Pearl Harbor will need to gross over $250 domestically to break even, which is less than 50% likely to occur.
As I said, it will make its money overseas.
20343. rubberducky - 5/29/2001 12:44:44 PM
as you say, we'll see.
if this dumb movie doesn't make $175 million i'll be surprised. but then, i'm constantly amazed by people's stupidity.
20344. CalGal - 5/29/2001 1:32:59 PM
In Fielding's defense, the first articles about its supposedly weak performance didn't mention that it was three hours long. It wasn't until yesterday that I read an analysis that said it actually did well. The best indicator would be attendance per viewing--EW usually reports on that, doesn't it?
20345. LadyChaos - 5/29/2001 1:42:19 PM
CalGal,
An attendance per viewing standard would be the most fair measure. If you have two films that are getting the same attendance, yet one can be show five to six times per day while the other can be shown only three to four times per day, you might be led to believe, based on gross box office receipts, that the shorter picture is doing better. And, in a sense, it is doing better in terms of its rate of return per screening day. But the longer film could easily end up making more money over the long term.
I heard several reports on Pearl Harbor this morning, all of them bad. But even some of those people continue to defend Michael Bay as being a good "technical" action director.
I worry that I might have to go see the film, just to arm myself for these debates. If so, it will only be while holding my nose.
20346. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 2:03:34 PM
I'm feeling considerably less than eloquent this morning due to lack of sleep but wanted to mention that I loved Moulin Rouge. It's beautiful and tragic and funny and sexy and I'm definitely going to see it again.
The sets and costumes are amazing but I missed a lot of the same kinds of things that I missed in Lurhmann's Romeo & Juliet simply because there is such an awful lot going on in so many of the scenes but it's fabulous eye-candy. I was pleasantly surprised by Ewan MacGregor's singing voice. I had no idea that he could sing. Not only that, but he sings very well! Nicole Kidman is beautifl and fascinating to watch and aquits herself well in the vocal department. It's difficult for me to say whether I think she's a particularly talented actess simply because she's so amazingly beautiful that I get sidetracked. She's good but that's pretty much all I can tell you. If I can see her be really good when the camera isn't quite so in love with her face I'll be better able to tell.
John Leguizamo (sp?) and Richard Roxburgh are the stand-out performances although I wasn't overly fond of the speech impediment that Leguizamo adopted for Lautrec. Both men brought moments of utterly naked humanity to roles that could easily have been mere stereotypes---The clown and the Evil Duke.
okay, brain fade. I can't think of anything else right now.
20347. Fielding - 5/29/2001 2:15:26 PM
I agree with Ms. No. I thought Moulin Rouge was brilliant. I hope to put together a fuller length review soon.
I also want to stress that anybody interested in seeing this movie should try to see it in a theater with good sound, preferably during a sold out show, preferably soon. There was more audience activity in viewing this film than any I've seen in 20 years.
20348. LadyChaos - 5/29/2001 2:17:24 PM
I've been avoiding Moulin Rouge because I'm not sure how I feel about the modern soundtrack. Was that an impediment?
20349. Fielding - 5/29/2001 2:23:14 PM
Not to me. The soundtrack was filled with songs that I would never choose to listen to before the movie, and that did not inhibit my enjoyment.
20350. CalGal - 5/29/2001 2:25:01 PM
Shrek
Imaginative, funny, and extremely eclectic, this story of a cranky troll and his sidekick donkey rescuing the truly beautiful princess does not require you haul a kid along to justify your attendance. The voice work is superb, with Murphy's donkey up there with Williams' genie in the pantheon of superlative comedy turns. The stream of visual gags is consistently funny as well, with the Disney digs coming fast and furious.
Special kudos for the female character: strong, funny, sexy, and perfectly capable of looking after herself. (I never thought I'd say this about a gorgeous blonde, but Diaz really is amazing--how'd she get all that in looks and still manage to acquire brains and a personality?)
There is, simply, nothing not to like about Shrek, including the cranky ogre himself. Let us all sing praise for a blockbuster that actually deserves its popularity.
Oh, and I'll bet a fair amount of virtual cash that the soundtrack will be a hit, too. Great tunes.
20351. christipeters - 5/29/2001 2:38:39 PM
Cal - "Shrek is terrific"
Told ya so!
20352. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 2:39:37 PM
LadyC,
The modern tunes were used very effectively. They were good for some laughs as well as underscoring the theme of the film. There were a few that I didn't recognize at all, but one of my favorite scenes is set to Sting's Roxanne. It's a song that I love anyway, but the rearrangement and the choreography were ......god, I can't think of anything to convey how strongly it affected me. Not from an intellectual standpoint--the song is very frank and the message it conveys in the film unsubtle but the shear power of it was ....shit! I'm still out of words for it.
Another of my favorite scenes is in the beginning when they're selling the idea of Spectacula Spectacula to the Duke. I can't remember the name of the piece but it's classical and you might most easily recognize it with a cartoon cat and mouse chasing one another and hitting each other over the head with frying pans etc.
good god. I've got to get some sleep. I make no sense and have no words. blegh!
At any rate, I laughed my ass off---as did the rest of the audience. Kidman does over-the-top campy incredibly well. Her total commitment to melodrama in the early scenes with MacGregor and Roxburgh are hysterical. Satine knows the power of her allure but at the same time she never takes herself seriously. I think it's that quality the Kidman has in common with the character she portays and it's what frees her to be completely balls out in her performance.
20353. JudithAtHome - 5/29/2001 2:47:24 PM
Of course "Cameron Diaz" is beautiful, sexy, intelligent, and all that...she is a CARTOON. I don't think she's all that brainy and intelligent in real life but possibly you are letting the fact she's a cartoon with all those attributes color your view of her.
20354. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 2:51:17 PM
Juditha,
From what I've heard she's pretty bright and down-to-earth in real life as well. She doesn't take her own beauty at all seriously and is something of a goofball. She's one of those girls that you'd love to hate but just can't seem somehow to manage it because she's so incredibly nice and fun to be around.
20355. CalGal - 5/29/2001 2:52:23 PM
Judith,
Do you really think it is conceivable that my comment was about Fiona, as opposed to Cameron Diaz? Mightn't you want to think for a second before you make such silly comments?
20356. JudithAtHome - 5/29/2001 2:57:58 PM
I just wonder how you can assume she is all the things you say from seeing her as a character in a cartoon...your segue in that post made it seem so.
Of course, when I say "silly things", I'm advised to stop and think before doing so...your remarks struck me as fairly silly, too.
20357. CalGal - 5/29/2001 3:02:35 PM
Judith--it was a parenthetical remark. But in any event, that you would think that anyone other than a five year old would confuse an animated character with a real actress suggests a basic problem in your assumption methodology.
20358. CalGal - 5/29/2001 3:04:04 PM
MsNo,
Yes, exactly. Usually beautiful blondes--in fact, most spectacularly beautiful people--are more than a bit lacking in the personality department. I wonder if Diaz had a miserable childhood? (g)
20359. JudithAtHome - 5/29/2001 3:09:12 PM
I think many of us have problems with assuming, Cal....
20360. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 4:12:36 PM
CG,
I dunno. I've heard that she has terrible problems with her skin...
Actually, I think some of it is just inborn personality and some of it is the way one is raised. If she wasn't raised as a "beautiful child" then there isn't much tendency to fall back onto that kind of attitude. I think a lot of it depends on what one is praised for and how one is encouraged to shine.
20361. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 4:14:02 PM
Off Topic: CG did you get my query about the conversations page? I just sent it this morning but didn't know if you had access to email.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread topic.
Anybody know anything about how bad I should expect "Witchblade" to be? Is it a rentable movie or only a TV thing?
20362. JudithAtHome - 5/29/2001 4:18:42 PM
I thought it was a series...
20363. CalGal - 5/29/2001 4:22:06 PM
yes, I did get it, but I can only receive inbound and have to go to my webaccount for outbound. I keep forgetting. Do you have instant messenger? I have it at work--for work, actually.
20364. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 4:29:42 PM
CG,
AOL instant messenger?
Yeah, I've still got that on this machine. I'm bridgeburner69 on AOL. I'm pretty much an ICQ person but some of my work contacts use AIM so I've got that too.
Judith,
Yeah, it looks like a series but I think there was a full length film/pilot that's showing tonight in place of Buffy the Vampire Slayer since that's moving to UPN.
20365. PelleNilsson - 5/29/2001 4:34:35 PM
If you want to see a great rant about stupid blondes, check Rustler's recent link in International.
20366. JudithAtHome - 5/29/2001 4:35:38 PM
Oh, I've only seen one ad for it when I was surfing channels...I don't get that Buffy cult stuff and am not into the fantasy based shows at all.
20367. Ms. No - 5/29/2001 4:48:31 PM
We're only cultish enough to make sure we see all the episodes. No paraphernalia or posters or long drawn-out coffee conversations about the shows. (yes we watch Angel too)
It's the only TV I really watch. I figure I can lose myself in escapist fantasy for two hours a week. Yippeee!!!!
20368. PelleNilsson - 5/29/2001 4:50:41 PM
20369. MsIvoryTower - 5/29/2001 6:00:15 PM
Just caught Shrek, and I see Calgal covered all the bases in her review above.
I'll just add that the Disney spoofs were some of the most imaginative, well-integrated, and hilarious moments of the film. And the soundtrack was a definite winner.
What a jewel of a film.
20370. CalGal - 5/29/2001 6:03:00 PM
Oh, they were hysterical. I just realized that I forgot to mention the Gingerbread man cameo. Truly the finest film performance ever turned in by a cookie.
Did you catch the Matrix nod?
20371. MsIvoryTower - 5/29/2001 6:09:34 PM
Yes.
The Matrix nod, the Scrooge nod, the Sleeping Beauty nod, and the B&B nod, among others.
The gingerbread nod was too funny, and it continued up to the closing scenes.
20372. CalGal - 5/29/2001 6:11:55 PM
hahahaha! I didn't think they could top the torture scene, but it was the perfect ending.
20373. Fielding - 5/30/2001 11:08:21 AM
Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night
Enter Patty Valentine from the upper hall.
She sees the bartender in a pool of blood,
Cries out, "My God, they killed them all!"
Here comes the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.
Three bodies lyin' there does Patty see
And another man named Bello, movin' around mysteriously.
"I didn't do it," he says, and he throws up his hands
"I was only robbin' the register, I hope you understand.
I saw them leavin'," he says, and he stops
"One of us had better call up the cops."
And so Patty calls the cops
And they arrive on the scene with their red lights flashin'
In the hot New Jersey night.
Meanwhile, far away in another part of town
Rubin Carter and a couple of friends are drivin' around.
Number one contender for the middleweight crown
Had no idea what kinda shit was about to go down
When a cop pulled him over to the side of the road
Just like the time before and the time before that.
In Paterson that's just the way things go.
If you're black you might as well not show up on the street
'Less you wanna draw the heat.
20374. Fielding - 5/30/2001 11:09:20 AM
Alfred Bello had a partner and he had a rap for the cops.
Him and Arthur Dexter Bradley were just out prowlin' around
He said, "I saw two men runnin' out, they looked like middleweights
They jumped into a white car with out-of-state plates."
And Miss Patty Valentine just nodded her head.
Cop said, "Wait a minute, boys, this one's not dead"
So they took him to the infirmary
And though this man could hardly see
They told him that he could identify the guilty men.
Four in the mornin' and they haul Rubin in,
Take him to the hospital and they bring him upstairs.
The wounded man looks up through his one dyin' eye
Says, "Wha'd you bring him in here for? He ain't the guy!"
Yes, here's the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.
Four months later, the ghettos are in flame,
Rubin's in South America, fightin' for his name
While Arthur Dexter Bradley's still in the robbery game
And the cops are puttin' the screws to him, lookin' for somebody to blame.
"Remember that murder that happened in a bar?"
"Remember you said you saw the getaway car?"
"You think you'd like to play ball with the law?"
"Think it might-a been that fighter that you saw runnin' that night?"
"Don't forget that you are white."
Arthur Dexter Bradley said, "I'm really not sure."
Cops said, "A poor boy like you could use a break
We got you for the motel job and we're talkin' to your friend Bello
Now you don't wanta have to go back to jail, be a nice fellow.
You'll be doin' society a favor.
That sonofabitch is brave and gettin' braver.
We want to put his ass in stir
We want to pin this triple murder on him
He ain't no Gentleman Jim."
20375. Fielding - 5/30/2001 11:09:31 AM
Rubin could take a man out with just one punch
But he never did like to talk about it all that much.
It's my work, he'd say, and I do it for pay
And when it's over I'd just as soon go on my way
Up to some paradise
Where the trout streams flow and the air is nice
And ride a horse along a trail.
But then they took him to the jailhouse
Where they try to turn a man into a mouse.
All of Rubin's cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance.
The judge made Rubin's witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigger.
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger.
And though they could not produce the gun,
The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed.
Rubin Carter was falsely tried.
The crime was murder "one," guess who testified?
Bello and Bradley and they both baldly lied
And the newspapers, they all went along for the ride.
How can the life of such a man
Be in the palm of some fool's hand?
To see him obviously framed
Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land
Where justice is a game.
Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell
An innocent man in a living hell.
That's the story of the Hurricane,
But it won't be over till they clear his name
And give him back the time he's done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.
20376. rubberducky - 5/30/2001 11:17:07 AM
Fielding: what the hell are you doing?
20377. JudithAtHome - 5/30/2001 11:19:27 AM
I saw Dylan do this one live with the Rollin' Thunder Revue and tons of big names in music...Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, lots of people I can't recall but enjoyed at the time. Really great concert...Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys opened.
20378. Fielding - 5/30/2001 11:24:24 AM
RD:
Isn't it obvious?
I'm posting on-topic lyrics from Bob Dylan in different threads, in honor of his 60th Birthday.
20379. rubberducky - 5/30/2001 11:25:29 AM
oh...
well, please stop
20380. CalGal - 5/30/2001 11:26:09 AM
Stop that spam, Fielding.
20381. Fielding - 5/30/2001 11:31:22 AM
Its on topic, so it not spam. And I'm not going to argue with you about it.
20382. CalGal - 5/30/2001 11:35:15 AM
It's not on topic, and you're right, you won't be arguing about it since provided you don't spew it again there's nothing to discuss.
20383. CalGal - 5/30/2001 11:55:07 AM
Lord, those Conseco ads kill me.
"Oh, look! There she is!"
"Grandma!"
20384. LadyChaos - 5/30/2001 1:36:22 PM
The all time barf me out award winner for commercials is the recent spot for Phillip Morris where the cold, stern-looking professional white lady arrives from America with a planeload of Kraft foods to save the poor Kosovars. It raises cynicism to new heights, and makes me embarrassed to be an American.
20385. Francis Urquhart - 5/30/2001 1:43:51 PM
Why?
Phillip Morris give bucketfuls of cash, goods and services to humanitarian causes (and the arts). In the past decade, it has contributed more than $1 billion in cash and food donations to charitable organizations. They want to say "Hey, we give you smokes, but we also do these nice things."
I have no issue with that, though I've never understood how advertisiements for corporations as good citizens will get me to buy more Oreos.
20386. LadyChaos - 5/30/2001 1:51:54 PM
Francis,
Have you seen the ad? I'm not talking about a corporation's right to blow its own horn, but about a matter of execution, which in this case was very ham-handed.
20387. Francis Urquhart - 5/30/2001 1:55:44 PM
Lady
I have. They always are ham-handed when handing out hams. It is the nature of the medium of "Hey, look at me doing something good!"
20388. ButterfieldSwire - 5/30/2001 2:05:16 PM
Didnt Phillip Morris fund some Martin Luther King scholarships which they advertised during football halftimes until it was revealed they were spending $100 on adds for every $1 in scholarships.
[After they were caught, they made things right by cancelling the adds.]
20389. Francis Urquhart - 5/30/2001 2:08:26 PM
(from the PM website)
The Thurgood Marshall Scholarship Fund
With long-time funding of outstanding organizations such as the Thurgood Marshall Scholarship Fund, Philip Morris has supported efforts that provide educational opportunities for all students, while reflecting the growing cultural diversity in our schools.
The Thurgood Marshall Scholarship Fund, a merit scholarship program founded in 1987, provides four-year scholarships to students who attend historically black public colleges and universities. The Fund is a result of the work of the director of the Office for the Advancement of Public Black Colleges of the National Association of State University and Land Grant Colleges, and a representative of Miller Brewing Company. It was named after the late Justice Thurgood Marshall, who knew firsthand the importance of historically black public colleges in providing African-American students with academic challenges, as well as opportunities, for creative and intellectual growth.
The Fund has awarded scholarships totaling more than $6 million since its inception. More than 200 Thurgood Marshall scholars have already graduated, and 160 are currently receiving awards from the Fund. The 38 historically black public colleges and universities that participate in the Fund’s programs enroll more than 190,000 students engaged in studies spanning 400 fields. Over 70% of all students enrolled in historically black colleges and universities attend these institutions. Each year, these institutions educate more than 54% of the African-Americans who go on to graduate and professional schools.
20390. JudithAtHome - 5/30/2001 2:12:17 PM
I'd rather see them running ads about humanitarian deeds, ham-handed though they be in execution, than the print ads pushing how wonderfully sexy and independent it is to smoke slender ciggies if you are a "modern woman with a mind of her own".
20391. Francis Urquhart - 5/30/2001 2:15:46 PM
I kind of miss those.
Because, like it or not, smoking is sophisticated.
20392. Francis Urquhart - 5/30/2001 2:16:53 PM
Besides, anyone who is lured to the dark side of tobacco by a smiling girl with volleyball in one hand and a menthol 100 in the other deserves lung cancer.
20393. LadyChaos - 5/30/2001 2:22:47 PM
Judith,
I feel just the opposite. The ads are precisely what they purport to be -- entreaties to get you to buy a product.
The "charity ads," however, are simply P.R. wrapped up in the guise of charity. And to top it all off, it's really hard to say how much of it would be happening were it not for the structure of income tax deductions.
An advertising boss of mine in Europe used to say, regarding such ads, that they represented the absolute worst in corporate America, because the underlying message is: "If you'll be good to us, we'll be good to you."
But what I really hate about this recent P-M campaign is the way that it patronizes the Kosovars while sneaking in lots of branding shots for Kraft foods. This amounts to a double-whammy of unpardonable sins.
20394. LadyChaos - 5/30/2001 2:23:54 PM
I should clarify that by saying that the tobacco ads are just what they purport to be, and nothing more.
20395. JudithAtHome - 5/30/2001 2:44:49 PM
it's really hard to say how much of it would be happening were it not for the structure of income tax deductions.
But that is true of much that is charitable in this country....although the Republicans who believe Bush seem to think all charity springs from good hearts.
I agree that the ads are self-aggrandizing but this is hardly the only corporation doing it. Maybe the most irritating but not the only...
20396. Fielding - 5/30/2001 2:45:48 PM
Hurricane was a terrible movie.
20397. LadyChaos - 5/30/2001 2:56:14 PM
Judith,
I can tolerate corporate self-aggrandizement. But when a corporation portrays one of its New York corner-office dowagers as Mother Teresa, I want to hurl.
20398. JudithAtHome - 5/30/2001 2:59:42 PM
Well, I didn't get that from the ad but we all view things differently.
If I were in that situation and starving, I wouldn't care who brought the macaroni and cheese; I'd just be glad it arrived.
20399. glendajean - 5/30/2001 3:15:49 PM
Hurricane was a terrible movie.
I agree. But Denzel Washington's acting was superb.
20400. Fielding - 5/30/2001 3:26:34 PM
"Denzel Washington's acting was superb."
I couldn't agree more. He was brilliant.
20401. CalGal - 5/30/2001 4:36:49 PM
It is amusing that Francis decries real celebrations of heroism and sacrifice, such as the Vietnam Memorial, which he calls disgusting, but defends Philip Morris' right to tout its heroic charity.
20402. CalGal - 5/30/2001 4:43:08 PM
Because, like it or not, smoking is sophisticated.
Sophistication is, by definition, subjective. You are welcome to say "Like it or not, certain categories of morons think it's sophisticated". or "Some people like to smoke because a cigarette is one of the few things in life that is always going to be shorter than they are." But there is no absolute about it.
20403. AceofSpades - 5/30/2001 5:28:42 PM
Yeah, Francis. Didn't you know that was "just your opinion"?
Luckilly, CalGal was here to inform you of that.
I mean, she knows the difference between facts and opinions. What she says is a "fact"; what you say is "just an opinion."
20404. Francis Urquhart - 5/30/2001 6:19:54 PM
I don't care what anyone says, a choco-mouth by-way-of decades of Pall Mall inhalation is sophisticated.
20405. JudithAtHome - 5/30/2001 6:22:47 PM
Not to mention the mummification of the skin on ones face that goes along with it.
20406. Francis Urquhart - 5/30/2001 6:25:59 PM
Ooooooooooh . . . .
I forgot about that.
Sassy!
20407. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 10:17:38 AM
I saw three movies over the holiday weekend. "Best in Show" is a great film. Christopher Guest's mockumentary on dog show entrants is both sweet and harsh, and always hilarious. What makes it travel so well is that even as he shows folks engaging in what many might feel is an absurd practice, he leaves them dignity. Fred Willard, as a third rate Howard Cosell of the dog show circuit, is alone worth the rental. Grade -A.
"Vertical Limit" is an unmitigated piece of crap. Strictly for dumbasses, and not even justified by what were supposed to be awesome special effects/snow stuff. Grade D-.
"All The Pretty Horses" is just that - pretty. Otherwise, it is a jumbled mess, and interminable at that. Matt Damon is written as a Texas Confucious, and there is not a genuine moment in the picture, which is strange, because the scenery is certainly genuine. It sure looked like the Rio Grande. Grade F.
20408. Indiana Jones - 5/31/2001 10:19:42 AM
I was just about to rent "All the Pretty Horses." One last question: Any bare Penelope in it?
20409. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 10:21:29 AM
Indy
Not really. Though she is attractive, in a queer, Ellen Barkinesque way.
20410. Fielding - 5/31/2001 10:22:54 AM
Indy:
The film you want is Jamon, Jamon. Much nudity. Very little clothing. No dialogue in English.
20411. Indiana Jones - 5/31/2001 10:23:27 AM
Fielding: Seen it.
20412. Fielding - 5/31/2001 10:32:12 AM
Indy:
Then there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to sit through Pretty Horses.
20413. JudithAtHome - 5/31/2001 10:33:07 AM
FU:
We rented Best In Show this weekend, too. I loved Fred Willard...who was the guy with him? He was great at drawing attention away from Fred with sly little hand movements...
20414. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 10:35:55 AM
Juditha
I agree. I don't know who he was, but it seems as if he was a real announcer for dog shows, and he and Willard played very well off of each other. I was surprised by Best in Show, because I expected it to be satirical, but I did not expect it to be so engaging. I was rooting hard for these people.
As for Pretty Horses, it was directed by Billy Bob Thornton. He was clearly aiming for lyrical and zipped right past coherent.
20415. glendajean - 5/31/2001 10:36:18 AM
Fred Willard's performance was a "dead-on" send-up of Joe Garigola's (sp?) hosting of the Westminister Dog Show on the USA Network each year. This is the biggest dog show in the country held at Madison Square Garden. I liked Best In Show, but it wasn't as good as Guest's masterpiece, Waiting for Guffman (using the same cast).
20416. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 10:37:14 AM
Fielding
From my knowledge of your like of Waking the Dead, you might be more favorably predisposed to All the Pretty Horses. They are definitely of the same stripe, so take my comments in that vein.
20417. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 10:38:57 AM
Glenda
I disagree about Guffman, which I liked, but I thought Guest had too many Parker Poseys in Guffman (i.e., too many people who you could more easily satirize than imbue with empathy).
20418. glendajean - 5/31/2001 10:40:44 AM
Barbara Bush the Elder, aka Babs, is in Indy today to speak to the Junior League. Liberal Democrats are posted at all pubs and sports bars with cell phone in hand to dial the authorities in case the senior Barbara commits any violation of Indiana alcoholic beverage laws.
20419. CalGal - 5/31/2001 10:42:47 AM
not even justified by what were supposed to be awesome special effects/snow stuff.
Only for those who haven't figured out how to purchase a DVD player.
20420. glendajean - 5/31/2001 10:43:08 AM
And I am posting in the wrong thread. Sorry.
As far as Guffman, the performances are wonderful, particularly Willard and O'Hara, and Eugene Levy.
Guffman is a sermon on years of American childraising where kids are told they can be anything they want to be. And the Posey's are overcome by Guest's performance as Corkie, the director. As silly as it was, it was also very sweet.
20421. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 10:47:41 AM
But Corkie, and most of the rest of Guffman, was so over-the-top, so maniacal or one-dimensional, that I was never really drawn into them, whereas (with the exception of Posey and husband in Show), I really learned to like something about every one of the entrants in Show. They seemed much more human, yet Guest was able to display the same satire. Show just struck me as a more mature work.
20422. glendajean - 5/31/2001 10:50:13 AM
I saw Bridget Jones this weekend with friends.
Should be a definitional example for any dictionary entry of the phrase chick flick.
I didn't think Rene Z. was all that convincing or interesting. Hugh Grant was interesting because he played against his screen type. Colin Firth was handsome but mostly perplexed in how he got in such a movie.
20423. CalGal - 5/31/2001 10:52:28 AM
I don't understand how Firth gets so many leading man roles. I must be missing something about his basic appeal. I liked him in Conspiracy, though.
20424. Fielding - 5/31/2001 10:52:38 AM
FU:
I know lots of people who liked Waking The Dead. I don't know anyone who liked Pretty Horses. If you had actually liked Waking The Dead and told me it was similar to Pretty Horses, I would consider renting it.
Also, I will admit that hearing the words "I love you, Fielding" emanate from the mouth of naked Jennifer Connelly may have impaired my sobriety.
20425. glendajean - 5/31/2001 10:53:29 AM
I find Guffman funny on repeated showings. What can I say? BTW, Eugene Levy's dental office was filmed in the place where I used to get my hair cut in Austin.
BIS is also not very far from the outrageousness of Westiminister Dog Show, a two night entertainment in February.
It's interesting that Guest is creating, at least for these two films, a repetory company of actors.
20426. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 10:54:02 AM
Fielding
Fair enough. I think that both films have the common trait of placing symbol and mystical import above linear progression.
20427. glendajean - 5/31/2001 10:56:19 AM
I liked the young Firth in Another Country and in Apartment Zero.
He always appears tightly wound and angry, and on him, imo, this makes him sexy.
20428. christipeters - 5/31/2001 11:08:48 AM
LD and I watched Dungeons and Dragons on video last night. While it wasn't horrible, I'm certainly glad I didn't pay to see it at the theatre. The story was predictable, the acting mediocre, and the effects ok, but not good enough to make up for the rest.
20429. Fielding - 5/31/2001 11:16:58 AM
Waking The Dead is about a man who is conflicted between his idealistic side and his pragmatic side. He sees the idealistic for all of its beauty and seductiveness, yet is not willing to let go of his understanding of the real world. When the idealism disappears, he feels guilty and wonders if he has sold out, whether it was worth it to sacrifice the purity of the ideal for the effectiveness of the real.
I think about these issues all the time, so Waking The Dead worked really well for me. I can see how others would refuse to see the jennifer Connelly character as a viable choice, and how the movie wouldn't work as well for them.
The important thing is that Fielding did fall for her, he did love her, and even if he didn't choose her path to political action, he understood that deep down her values were good ones, that she wanted to help people just like he did, and was willing to die to help people just like he was willing. So even if it was a choice that many of us wouldn't even consider, we see that the choice was very real for him.
I personally believe that true love will cause people to consider doing things that they aren't really programmed to do. I guess to really like the movie, you have to accept either the viability of joining a left wing radical group or the view that a person in love will consider almost anything. Preferably, one would accept both premises.
20430. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 11:22:22 AM
Fielding
My biggest problem with Waking the Dead had less to do with what it was about than how it was presented. I don't think Keith Gordon is a competent director. Everyone one of his films (at least The Chocolate War and A Midnight Clear) feels like a first film, and he lacks the discipline to run a scene and keep his actors in check. He really left Crudup out on the line, and he also lapsed into film school technique on a regular basis.
I did like him in Stephen King's "Christine" and "Back to School."
20431. Cellar Door - 5/31/2001 11:25:53 AM
20432. Fielding - 5/31/2001 11:30:12 AM
FU:
I agree that a few of the scenes made me cringe, especially the lurches toward supernatural effects. I was able to overlook this problem, but maybe I shouldn't have. On the other hand, one can go overboard letting a flaw ruin a movie. For example, does the amateurish bookending of The Dish ruin the film? I say no.
20433. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 11:32:41 AM
I never saw The Dish. What is it?
20434. Fielding - 5/31/2001 11:38:03 AM
Its a very good little Australian film about the role of a few Australians and their satellite dish in the Apollo lunar landing in 1969.
You can choose any number of other examples. Did the "I should have done more" speech ruin Schindler's List? Of course not. Spielberg can't help himself, but he still made a fine movie. (And no, I am not arguing that Waking The Dead is anywhere near as good a movie as Schindler's List.
20435. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 11:59:40 AM
FU,
Strange, but our tastes in films seem completely divergent. I gave Vertical Limit two and half stars. I can't imagine giving the film a D-.
20436. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 12:07:23 PM
Ace
The "thing" was laughable (i.e., the sun on the liquid), the characters were thin, the acting was leaden (such is Chris O'Donnell), the tie-in of the mystical Scott Glenn was a hoot, the end was clear, and during the film, when we were marking time to the big finale, no one had anything to say that made them interesting or more than stock.
So, it was charmless. What suprised me was that an action picture could be so boring.
The best thing about Vertical Limit, like Cliffhnager before it, was the first scene.
20437. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 12:13:16 PM
It was a hybrid of a disaster film and an action film. When you say the characters were "thin," by what metric, precisely, are you measuring?
By the metric established in the Stallone opus Daylight?
The characters were very thin. Because they always are in disaster movies, for the simple reason that disaster /horror movies require many more "main characters" than other films, due to the fact that 85% of the cast is going to be killed.
20438. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 12:18:01 PM
Now, in a pure action film, you can get by with one or two main characters plus a romantic interest and plus a "sidekick" or "sympathetic older character" (who is going to die, of course).
But that's just one body. Disaster films require all of the above plus five or six Walking Corpses to die in the course of the film. The Walking Corpses are obviously not going to get more than superficial attention.
20439. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 12:21:33 PM
Oh -- of course, action pictures have a bunch of Walking Corpses, too, but they're the Villain's henchmen, and we don't expect them to be "characters."
20440. RosettaStone - 5/31/2001 12:42:09 PM
No wonder the 19-year-old twins drink
MamaB admits to a smoking habit in her youth, claims the Washington Post
Does Laura Bush sneak cigarettes?
The Washington Post's "Reliable Source" has heard that the first lady, who admits to a smoking habit in her youth, is said to take a puff out of public view. When we put the question to Mrs. Bush's press secretary, Noelia Rodriquez, she told us: "I'm not aware of that. I can't confirm or deny this."
Guilty, as charged.
20441. RosettaStone - 5/31/2001 12:43:04 PM
oops, wrong thread.
20442. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 12:44:11 PM
Ace
I agree that characters are necessarily thin in any disaster/action film. These characters were paper thin. And they were boringly portrayed.
Five examples of well-developed (but necessarily thin) characters in disaster/action pictures:
Gene Hackman (The Poseiden Adventure)
Clint Eastwood (In the Line of Fire)
Bruce Willis (Die Hard)
Peter Weller (Robocop)
Any of the three leads in Jaws
No character in Vertical Limit came within 40% of the thickness of these characters.
If you can tersely make characters thicker, instead of the stock dorks (mystical man, drunken brothers, Muslim guy, hot babe, young buck) in Vertical Limit, it carries you to a C no matter how cheezy the picture.
20443. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 12:48:06 PM
Ace
Even if you excuse Vertical Limit on the defense of "too many characters" (i.e., 6 rescuers), it still does not match up with The Magnificent Seven or The Dirty Dozen or The Great Escape.
That's because it is difficlut to write characters when lines are at a premium, as they are in disaster/action pictures. And portrayal is everything.
For example, James Coburn, who I'm pretty sure said "Yep" and "Nope" and "Yep" and that was it in The Magnificent Seven, established more of a character - and thus was much more interesting - than Chris O'Donnell in Vertical Limit, though he was given a bazillion lines.
Why?
Because his lines sucked, we'd heard them all - and I mean every one - before, and he is a shitty actor.
20444. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 12:51:21 PM
Look, I only gave the film two and a half stars. It's a C+/B-. Don't think I believe it's a good film.
But a D minus, when most movies aren't even watchable?
You can compare Vertical Limits to the all-time classics, if you like; but I think it's important to keep in mind you're comaring to Classics
20445. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 12:52:31 PM
Look, I only gave the film two and a half stars. It's a C+/B-. Don't think I believe it's a good film.
But a D minus, when most movies aren't even watchable?
You can compare Vertical Limits to the all-time classics, if you like; but I think it's important to keep in mind you're comaring to Classics, which are, by definition, exceptional.
Chris O'Donnel sucks. Yes. Quite frankly, so does Scott Glenn. But how much can you penalize a film for that fact alone?
20446. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 12:52:59 PM
Toys, and oops.
20447. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 12:53:33 PM
Ace
I agree, but I'm a tough grader, and you grade on a liberal pussy curve.
VERTICAL LIMIT
ACTING - F (everyone was awful)
ACTION - D (it was ho hum)
PACE - D (it dragged)
SCRIPT - F (not one clever line, and you know it)
20448. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 12:55:53 PM
Ace
I can penalize it 25% if EVERYONE who is turning in a performance blows. I have to watch these people for upwards of 110 minutes, and they ALL were godawful.
Here is another grading
THE SIXTH DAY
ACTING - C (Arnold was Arnold)
ACTION - C+ (derivative, but cool)
PACE - B (it moved)
SCRIPT - C+ (decent patter, a few yucks)
20449. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 12:56:16 PM
So, there is how it ranks with a non-classic.
20450. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 12:58:42 PM
SPECTACLE - A. good, seemless use of CGI; unless you watched the Making-Of featurettes, you probably aren't even sure which scenes were CGI and which were real. (Beyond the obvious, of course.)
PREMISE - B+. Good premise. I could have done without the nitroglycerin.
ROBIN TUNNEY'S TITS -- B. Perky and full as usual, but sadly hidden beneath Gortex.
BILL PAXTON FACTOR -- B. Always good to see Bill Paxton.
HEATHEN SAVAGES PRESENTED AS ENGLISH-ACCENTED, OXFORD-EDUCATED NORMAL PEOPLE -- A+. From this film you would imagine that Pakistanis were the sort of people you woudln't mind knowing, rather than the barbaric head-hunting cannibals they actually are.
DVD EXTRAS: A+. Loaded.
20451. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 1:00:55 PM
LACK OF HORRIBLE IRONY THAT PLAGUES 90% OF ACTION FILMS: A+. Not a single wink at the audience. Played completely straight.
20452. Francis Urquhart - 5/31/2001 1:04:49 PM
SPECTACLE - C. The technical wizardry may have been there, but it seemed backyardish in many ways. Great, set 3 folks in a big hole and have Tunney cross a rickety ice bridge - lame. Blow up two guys while they hug - lame. The forever hopping off the copter. Lame. Final scene - totally boring - we are still the stupid hole.
Daddy's fall was good. The avalanche/hanging scene was fair.
PREMISE - D. The nitro was awful, and frankly, it was the premise.
ROBIN TUNNEY'S TITS -- F. See Gortex.
BILL PAXTON FACTOR -- B. It is always good to see Bill Paxton.
HEATHEN SAVAGES PRESENTED AS ENGLISH-ACCENTED, OXFORD-EDUCATED NORMAL PEOPLE -- A+. Agreed.
DVD EXTRAS: Not applicable.
But your grade is equivalent to the 10% you can get for "class participation."
20453. CalGal - 5/31/2001 1:18:30 PM
It's absurd to say that Vertical Limit is a D- movie, considering the shit that is out there. It is a marvellously cheesy B-movie that accomplishes exactly what it sets out to do. The only problem was that the lead role cried out for Keanu.
The Dish is a wonderful little comedy about the moon landing that manages to be both suspenseful and touching.
20454. AceofSpades - 5/31/2001 1:22:44 PM
FU,
Does a C to you mean "average"?
If so, are you really claiming that VL is far below average? That would suggest that there are a great many movies better than VL, and only a relative handfull of flims worse than it. I think that's an untenable proposition.
20455. janjon - 5/31/2001 1:22:44 PM
Much of the dialogue in Best in Show, and therefore much of the flow of various scenes or situations (such as the hilarious scene where Parker Posey and whatever his name is reveal that their dog watchs them having sex, or the on-going "conversation" between the two commentators), was improvised.
The movie had a few flat spots, but on the whole it was quite a whoofer.
20456. don s. - 5/31/2001 3:26:00 PM
“The film you want is Jamon, Jamon. Much nudity.”
Ohhhh yeah. Made me a big fan of Javier Bardem. Some really nice frontal nudity (though not of Javier) when Bardem and his friend do some midnite naked bullfighting.
Sigh.
20457. glendajean - 5/31/2001 3:34:21 PM
I'd pay to watch that movie.
20458. JudithAtHome - 5/31/2001 4:15:00 PM
He wasn't too shabby in Before Night Falls clothed.
20459. don s. - 5/31/2001 5:18:33 PM
Yes, Before Night Falls had some nice Speedo action. But it couldn't compare with the shot of him clambering over a fence without a speedo.
20460. CalGal - 5/31/2001 11:45:22 PM
The Tao of Steve
Consistently amusing "little" movie, about a sloppy, fat, part-time kindergarten teacher who still manages to get laid whenever he wants--and the girl who finally lands this prize specimen.
Dex, a former overachieving college stud whose reasons for going to pot are never provided, believes in the Tao of Steve, a metaphor for the way life is lived by the coolest of the cool, the men who are Steve (Austin, Garreth, and McQueen). Of course, he only adopts that policy when it comes to getting laid--none of the Steves lived as he does, which is quintessentially Stu (the name of the uncool). His reasoning as to why the technique works and his explanations are the basis for the much of the comedy, which works very well.
And of course, he meets someone who he actually wants to be with and the entire strategy dissolves, just when he needs it most. But how to manage the affairs of the heart and still save face with his pals?
Donal Logue plays the rogue with a fat suit and some added weight (odd to think he was the AIDS poster boy in And The Band Played On) and the movie relies heavily on his charm, although all the performances are solid, with Kimo Wills standing out in the "junior roommate" role.
Like Free Enterprise, Tao is a pleasant change from the maudlin and moralizing relationship comedies of recent years--most notably High Fidelity, with its desperate snowjob on the desirability of settling for a dreary set of "shoulds", just because it's time. Lord knows a film's easier to take without an agenda.
20461. rubberducky - 6/1/2001 10:20:18 AM
interesting tidbit from infobeat:
How 'The Grinch' is still in the red
LOS ANGELES (Launch) - Despite closing 2000 as the year's top-grossing movie, "How The Grinch Stole Christmas" has yet to make money - $123 million dollars of the film's $260 million domestic box office gross goes towards the original production budget. Thirty-four percent of the remaining $137 million then goes to director Ron Howard and star Jim Carrey as part of their backend participation deal, notes the Wall Street Journal. Throw in the 50% of the gross that studios typically split with exhibitors, and an estimated $40 million marketing and exhibit budget, and you've got Universal making no profit. The studio is also victim to "The Grinch's" disappointing foreign box office returns, which typically are the same or greater than the domestic gross. To date, "The Grinch" has grossed about $85 million overseas, just less than a third of its domestic take.
20462. rubberducky - 6/1/2001 10:24:09 AM
watched Space Cowboys last night. with lowered expectations, this is an enjoyable family movie. nothing in it you haven't seen before, so i won't pick it apart and tell you the plot-holes and such.
anyway, worth a rental if only to see some great actors with the occasional funny quip in an otherwise unremarkable movie.
3 out of 5 quacks
20463. glendajean - 6/1/2001 11:21:09 AM
I read somewhere recently that studios also assign losses from stinkers to their big dollar grossing movies.
I saw Three Kings last night. Quirky war/western movie set in Iraq. Edited by the MTV school. I particularly liked the actor who played the Iraqi who tortured Mark Wahlburg's character, and Nora Dunn turned in a fine supporting role as a tough, bitchy network reporter. A group of Desert Storm soldiers go desert hunting after Kuwaiti bars of gold stolen by Sadaam Hussein that is rumored to be buried in desert bunkers.
Several surreal moments thrown in, including a vivid illustration of working internal body parts, a discussion of Michael Jackson's physical transformation, a cell phone call from the bunker torture chamber to the sweet wife back in the States, and luxury automobiles driving across the desert. George Clooney stars, using his tough but sweet guy shorthand that is reduced to grunts, stares and nods.
20464. glendajean - 6/1/2001 11:24:35 AM
Oh, I forgot-- there are lots of lovely murals of Sadaam, in cap and gown, with children, as a military leader. Fun stuff, particularly if one has seen the South Park movie.
20465. Fielding - 6/1/2001 11:29:53 AM
"Despite closing 2000 as the year's top-grossing movie, "How The Grinch Stole Christmas" has yet to make money - $123 million dollars of the film's $260 million domestic box office gross goes towards the original production budget.
This is why people are calling Pearl Harbor a Box Office disappointment.
20466. Fielding - 6/1/2001 11:35:20 AM
BTW, anybody interested in the Broadway run of Mamma Mia had better move fast. Center orchestra seats for matinees are already gone until next May.
If you want to see this, I recommend that you by your tickets today!
20467. glendajean - 6/1/2001 11:37:01 AM
Yesterday we got Producer tickets for December.
20468. JudithAtHome - 6/1/2001 11:40:44 AM
This will sound so lame...yesterday I made reservations for I Love You; You're Perfect; Now Change for July 14...it opens this weekend and all weekends in June are sold out.
20469. JudithAtHome - 6/1/2001 11:41:34 AM
....not bad for a boring little city west of Dallas.
20470. glendajean - 6/1/2001 11:43:15 AM
Judith, if it makes you feel any better, I think we got lousy seats and will probably only have the bragging right of saying we were in the room when Lane and Broderick were performingl
BTW, Tonys are on Sunday night.
20471. JudithAtHome - 6/1/2001 11:46:23 AM
Really? And here I was thinking Sunday nights would be boring after Tony and the crew left...I guess this week, we'll be getting a different type of Tony!
Will you be ready to dish on Monday about what everyone wore and who was robbed of recognition? I guess I'll tape Sex and the City and watch it after the Tonys...
20472. glendajean - 6/1/2001 11:49:59 AM
Judith -- Lane has co-hosted the Tonys 2 times. In his first effort, he showed up on stage wearing only an apron (costume from Love, Valour, Compassion). So maybe it will be a question of what some are not wearing.
HBO's Six Feet Under also is debuting Sunday night along with the return of Sex.
20473. Fielding - 6/1/2001 11:51:59 AM
GJ:
What date are you going? I'm going in December too. Maybe I'll see you there.
20474. glendajean - 6/1/2001 11:56:32 AM
Maybe the 13th? I'll check.
A good friend in Texas went last week and convinced my partner that we had to go. She of course had perfect orchestra seats.
Actually, I am pretty jazzed about seeing it. When we lived in DC, we used to drive up for theater weekends. Haven't done that in over a year.
20475. glendajean - 6/1/2001 11:58:11 AM
Caryn James' review of Six Feet Under in today's New York Times
20476. JudithAtHome - 6/1/2001 12:00:18 PM
I envy all of you who are going in December or whenever, really...I would love to see a play, any play, in NYC. I want to see if the place makes any difference in the enjoyment...because I enjoy the hell out of the plays here. Provincial of me, I know, but I can live with it!
20477. Fielding - 6/1/2001 12:01:10 PM
I have Center Orchestra for December 18th, IIRC.
20478. glendajean - 6/1/2001 12:06:49 PM
Judith, we always bought tickets ahead of time for the one show we wanted to see, and then went to TKTS (usually the one in the World Trade Center) for additional half-price tickets. In 2 or 3 days you can see a lot of theater, blow a day in the Met Museum and do one or two other things as well. The feet hurt and there's no sleeping in, though.
20479. glendajean - 6/1/2001 12:07:46 PM
Let me try this again. Caryn James review in today's NY Times.
20480. JudithAtHome - 6/1/2001 12:08:04 PM
That review whets my appetite for the show...the girl playing the daughter was destined to be a star from the first time she appeared on Law&Order as a rape victim and mentally challenged teen.
20481. Fielding - 6/1/2001 12:08:09 PM
Judith:
If you saw the right play or musical in New York, you would love it. When everything hits perfectly, it is almost magical.
The Producers and Mamma Mia are hot tickets right now, but the next big hyped thing is the FREE, outdoor performance of Anton Checkov's The Seagull, adapted by Tom Stoppard, which stars John Goodman, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Allison Janney, Kevin Kline, Debra Monk, Larry Pine, Natalie Portman, Stephen Spinella, Meryl Streep, Christopher Walken. Oh, and its directed by Mike Nichols.
20482. glendajean - 6/1/2001 12:08:33 PM
God, I've lost my power to link.
review
20483. JudithAtHome - 6/1/2001 12:10:22 PM
Jeez, Fielding...when is THAT one due? I didn't realize there were that many roles in The Seagull .
20484. Fielding - 6/1/2001 12:15:21 PM
I think Tom Stoppard has broadened it a bit. With Stoppard, you often get flashbacks and reality tricks, so anything is possible.
Its part of Shakespeare in the Park, and it will run about 4 weeks from mid-July to mid-August.
20485. JudithAtHome - 6/1/2001 12:16:26 PM
Is this the same sort of thing Joseph Papp used to do in the park?
20486. Fielding - 6/1/2001 12:23:52 PM
Yes.
20487. glendajean - 6/1/2001 3:30:32 PM
Slate article by Jodi Kantor about HBO, sex and the Sunday night shows Sex in the City and Six Feet Under.
20488. glendajean - 6/1/2001 3:30:59 PM
There is a SPOILER warning at the beginning of the story.
20489. CalGal - 6/1/2001 3:41:03 PM
Nice article, although it really doesn't give much away. She's right that The Sopranos and Sex in the City center entirely on subjects that the networks are constricted by (violence and sex).
20490. Cellar Door - 6/1/2001 11:08:38 PM
At the San Francisco International Lesbian and Gay Film Festival, Sunday June 17 at 3:30 p.m.
Out of the Closet, Off the Screen: The Life & Times of William Haines, a new documentary by Randy Barbato and Fenton Bailey, featuring Gavin Lambert and Cellar Door.
20491. Francis Urquhart - 6/2/2001 8:57:12 AM
Ace
Here is a late answer to your question of a few days ago.
A grade of "C" does mean "average" to me, but average only in regard to action/disaster films I actually see. "Vertical Limit" does not improve by the existence of Anna Nicole Smith's "Skyscraper" or Dolph Lundgren's "I Come in Peace."
Here are my grades for the last action/disaster pictures I can remember seeing:
Gladiator B
Enemy of the State B
The Matrix B
The Sixth Day C+
Pitch Black C
X-Men C
U-571 C-
Deep Blue Sea D
Vertical Limit D-
Mission Impossible 2 F
Gone in 60 Seconds F
20492. AceofSpades - 6/3/2001 12:11:16 AM
A grade of "C" does mean "average" to me, but average only in regard to action/disaster films I actually see. "Vertical Limit" does not improve by the existence of Anna Nicole Smith's "Skyscraper" or Dolph Lundgren's "I Come in Peace."
"I Come in Peace" actually -- seriously -- was pretty decent.
20493. Indiana Jones - 6/3/2001 9:02:59 AM
Rented Woman on Top and Crime and Punishment in Suburbia.
I've noticed lately an almost inevitable synchronicity whenever I rent more than one DVD or receive two at the same time from NetFlix. Sometimes it's much of the action of the film occurs in the same city (e.g., Las Vegas), a common character actor (Thomas Mitchell--but then considering how many films this man appears in, that's not that unusual at all), or an almost identical character, or characters with identical names. Weird.
The weird coincidence this week is that Francis mentioned up thread that Penelope Cruz was attractive in an Ellen Barkin sort of way, which I'm thinking maybe he meant as a joke because the two women don't look similar at all to me. Anyhow, the female lead in Woman on Top is Penelope Cruz, and who should show up in Crime and Punishment in Suburbia as the second female, but Ellen Barkin? Completely unintentional on my part.
(Ellen Barkin looks even less like Penelope Cruz in this film than previously as her face is getting pretty rough. I didn't even recognize her to tell the truth until I started listening to the director's commentary. She still has a nice chest, though, and has just the right looks for this part.)
20494. Indiana Jones - 6/3/2001 9:10:26 AM
(Toys--Should have previewed.)
Woman on Top starts out kind of promising, although the food = sex thing is getting a little shopworn lately. It had a foreign feel to it, and I watched it with the Spanish subtitles on so I could try to brush up on my Spanish at the same time.
It soon lost all interest and was amazingly tedious for such a short film (I think it was about 80 minutes or something). The basic plot is Cruz has severe motion sickness and needs to be in control of her movements at all time--including sex. She's one helluva cook though.
Her male partner puts up with her needing to be on top for a couple of years (they both love each other with a hot chili pepper kind of passion), but then gets caught screwing around. Exit Penelope to America (LA, IIRC). The rest of the film is about boyfriend trying to retrieve Penelope, who gets a cooking show that all the men are watching because of the way she slices and dices.
You can likely fill in the rest of the story and the outcome yourself. Will the TV show have a male producer who is also after Penelope? Will the two lovers be reunited and all be right with the world at the end? Will Penelope overcome her motion sickness, and/or will her lover come to appreciate her for who she is?
20495. Indiana Jones - 6/3/2001 9:17:17 AM
One last comment re Woman on Top: does anyone else see the following pattern in male-female foils?
A male foil (the buddy, or whatever) will usually be more normal and gray than the male lead. His head will be on better, but he'll also be kind of drab--grounded.
A female foil (the buddy, or whatever) will usually be whacked out more than the female lead. She'll have bizarre clothes or hairstyle or lifestyle. Aside from knowing how to advise the heroine, her own life will be in even worse shape.
In Woman on Top, Penelope Cruz's best friend/foil is a black transvestite. Based on movies and TV, I'm beginning to think all single women are advised by some combination of lesbian transvestite drug addict, who is usually black.
20496. Indiana Jones - 6/3/2001 9:29:54 AM
Crime and Punishment in Suburbia is sort of an American Beauty meets Fyodor Dostoyevsky with a contemporary soundtrack a la the Gwyneth Paltrow Great Expectations.
Most reviews appear to have pooh-poohed the Dostoyevsky connection (and sticking it in the title is hopelessly pretentious, which describes this film in general, but teenagers are a lot like this movie in that they often do see everything as overwhelmingly important and that which is not particularly original as unique to their experience). I do think the Dostoyevsky elements are there, though, albeit from other books besides the namesake.
In particular, Vincent reminded me of Prince Mishkin, and the overall plot was a little more reminiscent of Brothers Karamazov. Like Dostoyevsky, it reaches too far and as a result is hopelessly muddled.
I linked the Ebert review because it's so typically Ebert. I can just see him oozing in his chair with unnecessary, over-the-top earnestness about this movie. IMO, he's right about several things, but it's sure not good enough to warrant the level of praise he glops on it.
It's sort of okay because it does try to do more than just exploit teenagers. But it's uncomfortable, ugly film that flops generally and isn't particularly well made.
The Michael Ironside stepfather--while horrific--almost rises to the level of a Dostoyevskian character. The best touch is having him so incapable of physically defending himself, despite his menacing physicality.
20497. TabouliJones - 6/3/2001 1:39:23 PM
I went to see Moulin Rouge on Friday. For the most part I enjoyed it, although at times the movie was dragged down by the director's vaulting ambitions. My favourite critic, Rick Groen of the Globe and Mail, sums up the experience nicely:
"The musical is the most delicate of movie genres --the fragile magic either works or it doesn't. Although hardly perfect, Moulin Rouge is a must-see if only because Baz Luhrmann, drawing upon every directorial trick in his vast arsenal, goes to impressive lengths to reinvigorate the movie musical. And yet, when all is sung and done, the poor thing remains as fragile as ever. Here, the magic flickers on and off like alternating current, and the result is a film as giddily unpredictable as the love it celebrates --enervating one moment, thrilling the next."
Oddly enough, I went to see this movie with me ex-girlfriend. The last movie we saw on the big screen was Titanic, which turned out to be a miserable experience for the both of us, given the sinking ship and all.
20498. JudithAtHome - 6/3/2001 1:50:07 PM
This looks like a trend in the making:
The Reviewer Who Wasn't There
Sony resorts to some questionable marketing practices to promote new movies
What next? Fake popcorn?
20499. JudithAtHome - 6/3/2001 6:48:44 PM
Anthony Quinn....RIP
20500. stostosto - 6/3/2001 7:14:36 PM
What next? Fake popcorn?
Fake audience. The studio buys all the tickets.
20501. glendajean - 6/4/2001 12:26:07 PM
Imongen Coco and Anthony Quinn. Whose is the third?
20502. Cellar Door - 6/4/2001 12:37:07 PM
Arlene Francis.
20503. JudithAtHome - 6/4/2001 12:39:35 PM
Oh, that's right! Quinn was the third....
Cellar, I would love to have your insights about Alan Ball added to the discussion of Six Feet Under in the TV thread...
20504. glendajean - 6/4/2001 12:40:36 PM
When did she die? She always wore pearls in contrast to Dorothy Killgalin's I'm the smart one act" on "What's My Line."
If she just died, that would be 3.
20505. JudithAtHome - 6/4/2001 12:44:18 PM
GJ:
Thursday or Friday...
20506. Cellar Door - 6/4/2001 1:06:33 PM
I interviewed Ball the other day as I'm working on my annual Gays in Hollywood piece for "Daily Variety."
20507. ElliottRW - 6/4/2001 1:27:06 PM
Shrek Excellent movie. Just one note of caution: when the blue bird starts singing a duet with Fiona, don't let your sensitive, bird-loving five-year-old watch. It's an hilarious parody, so you'll want to watch; it's just not for small children.
20508. CalGal - 6/4/2001 3:57:32 PM
The immediate follow up to the bluebird scene is one of the best giggles in the movie.
20509. Toenails - 6/4/2001 6:06:55 PM
Cellar: You do an annual "gays in Hollywood" piece?
'Sounds an awful lot like a "dog bites man" story to me.
20510. rubberducky - 6/4/2001 10:13:42 PM
sigh
i have the best b/f in the world. one of my gifts for my upcoming b-day is the GI Joe Collector's Edition DVD with all 25 of the Joe 'public service' announcements! (that's where you see some kid get locked in a frig or start a fire and some Joe comes up and tells them no, now they know, and that's 'half the battle'.)
anyhoo, this particular edition is a rare find and i love it!
and to those of you who marvel at my geekdom: nyah, nyah, na-nyah-nyah
20511. CalGal - 6/4/2001 10:37:37 PM
Wow, that is very cool. Way to go, Ripley!
And happy day, Ducky!
20512. CalGal - 6/4/2001 10:42:16 PM
I have been pondering Anthony Quinn's resume, and for all the longevity, it appears that all of his best movies were made between 1952 and 1965, a period of less than 15 years.
He is one of those actors whose career was actually kicked off by an Oscar win, after nearly twenty years in B films with few notable movies (often he was the best thing in them). I believe that all his great movies were made between Viva Zapata (1952) through High Wind in Jamaica (1965). The rest of his sixties output is variable, and I don't believe he ever did anything decent after that, did he?
My favorite Quinn performances and films are Lawrence of Arabia, High Wind in Jamaica and The Guns of Navarone. He is excellent in Lust for Life and La Strada but they really aren't any fun to watch. I haven't seen Zorba the Greek and a few of his other famous roles, but I'd be surprised if any of them could outrank these on my favorites list, even if I might find them better (an unlikely enough prospect).
20513. Cellar Door - 6/5/2001 10:15:10 AM
Not really, Toenails. Each year it's a different man and a different dog.
And sometimes it's a "man bites dog" story.
I'm going to be interviewing Carol Leifer next week. She's writing Ellen's new show, and is a way cool writer and performer in her own right. Talkign to writers and directors is so much more fun than talking to performers.
I'm rather shocked that "La Strada" has so seldom been mentioned in press coverage of Quinn. It's an amazing film, and an amazing performance of a truly remarkable character. "Raging Bull" wouldn't have been unthinkable without the preceden "La Strada" provides. The last scene of him collapsing on the beach is incredibly moving.
20514. Francis Urquhart - 6/5/2001 10:30:33 AM
I saw Bridget Jones's Diary. It is below Notting Hill (significantly) and a little below Four Weddings and a Funeral. Still, it passes nicely, though it flirts with so debasing our heroine (Rene Zellwegger) that it gets harder and harder to root for her eventual romantic triumph. But Colin Firth and especially Hugh Grant, as the rake, are excellent as her suitors, and many of the gags play well (those that don't tend to fall flat because the film is overstuffed with gags). Grade: B-.
20515. rubberducky - 6/5/2001 11:28:26 AM
Ripley and i were both not feeling that great this weekend (thanks to intermittent rain and hot-no-cold-no-hot-really-cold-nah-hot weather the past couple of weeks in Ohio), so we rented some movies.
first up was Shadow of the Vampire which was an odd, but enjoyable movie. Willem Dafoe was just fantastic as the not-Dracula Dracula. superb. i can't say enough about him. the facial tics, the gestures - he was "Count Orlock". why he didn't win an award for this is beyond me. he has to have turned in one of the best performances for 2000. Malkovich was also great as the cruel and calculating (almost more inhuman than the vampire) director who wants authenticity at any cost.
the story centers on Malkovich's character, F.W. Murnau, who is making his 'masterpiece' Nosferatu, but really it's about the lengths that some people will go to in order to achieve their own desires as he offers up one of his own stars to the vampire as his reward for making his movie
the film had flaws, but they were minimal. the opening credits seemed to last a solid 5 minutes. there was a little overacting, but overall this is minimized by some excellent direction, wonderful sets and a smart and somewhat tight script.
i'd recommend this to anyone who likes a non-slapstick sometimes comedic sometimes horrific look at the monster that is within all of us.
4 and quacks out of 5.
20516. rubberducky - 6/5/2001 11:28:46 AM
oops remove that last 'and'
20517. rubberducky - 6/5/2001 11:34:42 AM
the other movie we rented was Bless the Child which was the seemingly inspired by End of Days religious 'thriller'.
the movie was just dumb. not much else to say. the villain (the hero from the much loved Dark City) was just a loser. Kim Basinger was an inept stooge throughout the entire thing.
it had a couple of good moments - Ricci's part (most particularly her head) were well used. other than that, this was nothing you haven't seen before. yet another kid who could be the next christ/prophet/bubba/saint and the evil dudes who wanna taint her. Yawn.
1 and 1/2 quacks out of 5.
20518. Webfeet - 6/5/2001 12:04:53 PM
Michel and I have been on an Eric Rohmer festival since december and are going to watch Ma Nuit Chez Maude tonight. We've seen them all, practically, except Marquise d'O.
Has Rohmer ever been discussed in this thread? I think his morality tales are among the most famous, especially Claire's Knee.
But there are many good ones out there tucked in the shelves of the foreign film section that could get easily overlooked. One is Boyfriends and Girlfriends which looks like a corny '80s love farce, which it almost is, except that the awkward way the two leads fall in love is genuinely poignant and you can't help but root for them in the end.
20519. CalGal - 6/5/2001 12:33:18 PM
I believe that Cellar loves Rohmer. I went through a period of trying to understand French film last year, but never got around to Rohmer. My Night at Maud's and Claire's Knee is on my queue at Netflix. I haven't ever heard of Boyfriends and Girlfriends.
20520. Cellar Door - 6/5/2001 3:22:15 PM
It's very good.
"An Autumn Tale" is excellent, but my favorite is "Summer" (aka "Le Rayon Vert")
I also like "The Aviator's Wife," and "Four Adventures of Reinette et Mirabelle."
"Claire's Knee" introduced Pascale Greggory -- who was later snapped up (personally as well as professionally) by Patrice Chereau.
20521. Cellar Door - 6/5/2001 3:23:09 PM
Somebody just posted this in "Datalounge":
NEW YORK: International mega star Tom Cruise has filed a $200 million law suit in the Suffolk County municipal court after learning the Julius Levin, a 24-year old assistant chef at Boticelli's in East Hampton, has been masturbating to his image for the past year. The Cruise lawsuit states: "Although Mr. Cruise is flattered by Levin's choice of sexual imagery and personal fantasies, he wants the press to understand that he shall never be an object of this gay man's fantasies, and does not even know Mr. Levin. Furthermore, Mr. Cruise has repeatedly stated that he can prove he is not gay and thathe is really, really 'str8' (his words)." Levin, whose penchant for the 38-year old actor was discussed as he was having brunch with two female friends, was reported to have stated that e had an 8X10 glossy of Mr. Cruise which he purchased from E-bay that he keeps under his bed. Mr. Levin could not be reached for comment, but a friend of the openly gay restauranteur who wished not to be identified stated: "This is totally f**ked up".
20522. Webfeet - 6/5/2001 3:35:07 PM
I warn you, Rohmer is addicting if you're inclined to that sort of philosophically discursive film that can either confirm all french stereotypes or make you appreciate the french character in a different light. What I appreciate most about his films is the way he forces you to see people in all of their dimensions, not just what they represent at one moment, in one context. The essence is you are more than the sum of how others define you and usually the character in question finds someone who will love them for what and who they really are. (they are usually rejected by others first)
By American standards, many of his characters would be labelled 'losers' and there is that awful tendency shaped in part by cultural expectations, to judge people by these trite little conventions, but he makes you see that the way we sometimes judge people is false and in doing so, exposes our own limitations.
Sometimes Rohmer introduces
20523. JudithAtHome - 6/5/2001 3:43:03 PM
Cellar:
That may be a joke but he did institute another lawsuit against someone claiming to have had sex with him...with tapes to prove it, allegedly.
20524. Webfeet - 6/5/2001 3:48:47 PM
I adore Reinette and Mirabelle but the lead in Le Rayon Vert sometimes got so hysterical with her vegetarianism, loneliness and need for lightness, that she began to kill me.
But in the end, she finds love, she just wasn't with the right people. that was a great scene with that little Swedish flirt on the terrace. I thought that the dialogue they shared with those two men must have been replicated in dozens of conversation in dozens of outdoor bars on the Mediterranean.
20525. Cellar Door - 6/5/2001 6:30:39 PM
That's what I like about him, Webby. He risks presenting us with a character that most people would reflexively dismiss as a pain in the ass and allows us to see her in a complex way. As a result we find we're rooting for her in the last reel.
20526. CalGal - 6/5/2001 6:47:34 PM
I just read that "What's The Worst That Could Happen" is based on a Westlake Dortmunder book. That's incredibly depressing, to ruin great source material. And it could have been excellent, with that cast.
Anyone looking for the true essence of Westlake is directed to The Hot Rock, which stars Redford at his most cool, Ron Liebman, and Zero Mostel. Not to be missed.
20527. Cellar Door - 6/5/2001 7:53:29 PM
Then there are Westlake's "Richard Stark" books. Two have been made into film classics: "Point Blank" and "Made in U.S.A."
20528. MaxMacks - 6/5/2001 8:13:24 PM
off the subject now but could not get my post in earlier to
say that I have seen Lawrence of Arabia" maybe
3or 4 times and have surprised some who did not know that Alec Guiness had principal part.
But you, Cal GAl, surprised me when you wrote
that A. Quinn was in that movie.
What was his part?
20529. CalGal - 6/5/2001 8:17:38 PM
Cellar,
I haven't read Westlake's Richard Stark books, I guess--although I really thought I had run through everything of his at the library a few years ago.
Max,
"Thy mother mated with a scorpion!"
20530. JudithAtHome - 6/5/2001 8:17:39 PM
He played Auda abu Tayi, whoever that is....
20531. CalGal - 6/5/2001 8:20:51 PM
He's the Bedouin chieftain that Lawrence has to convince to cross the desert to Aqaba.
20532. MaxMacks - 6/6/2001 2:51:35 PM
Was he the guy who shot at Lawrence/O'Toole
when Lawrence was using a well?
20533. MaxMacks - 6/6/2001 2:52:47 PM
how nice to get a post posted right away.
Hi Judith, amazing that you knew Auda abu Tayi!
20534. JudithAtHome - 6/6/2001 2:54:40 PM
Max...I just looked it up on the Internet Movie Database. It's listed in the yellow bar on the right of the screen near the top of the page. It's really handy for movie and even TV questions...
20535. CalGal - 6/6/2001 3:06:27 PM
Max,
No, that was Omar Sharif.
20536. CalGal - 6/6/2001 3:15:33 PM
Quinn is in the foreground, Sharif in the background.
20537. rubberducky - 6/6/2001 6:04:43 PM
has nobody commented on this from Today's Papers'?
USAT reefers news that Blockbuster, where more Americans get their videos than from any other source, has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit which claimed that the video pusher's late-return policy resulted in exorbitant fees. The dispute centered on Blockbuster's practice of charging customers a full rental fee for each day a tape was late (i.e. a five-day rental that cost a total of $2.99 would cost an additional $2.99 each day it was late.) Blockbuster -- which didn't admit to any wrongdoing -- agreed to issue customers up to $450 million in free coupons. Go get your slice of the pie (limited to a max of $18 per person).
20538. CalGal - 6/6/2001 6:53:42 PM
Anyone can get it? Cool. I did read it last night and meant to mention it.
It's funny--I was regularly reamed by their late fees and all this time I just figured it was me. I had no idea that they were that high. I quit Blockbuster, in part because of the late fees, back in March of 2000.
20539. rubberducky - 6/6/2001 6:56:00 PM
i rent from them only on impulse when Ripley and i are between netflix movies.
and, yeah, their fees are insane. it's one reason i was sooo happy to get into netflix.
20540. MaxMacks - 6/6/2001 8:06:03 PM
Judith AH , ya I knew you looked it up.
That is a great place for movie trivia info.
Cal Gal....so cool that you can not only find
a scene from a movie but then put it on here.
20541. Shannon - 6/6/2001 11:16:50 PM
Hubby went to Blockbuster last night. They're handing out legal notices with their receipts now. Too funny.
We have a Blockbuster about 5 minutes away, and the next closest place is 20 minutes, so we rent there when we're lazy. Like last night in the pouring rain when we needed kid amusement.
He also rented Best in Show, which we thoroughly enjoyed.
20542. Toenails - 6/6/2001 11:27:25 PM
OK, everybody warned me...the people on this thread, the critics, everybody, but I had to see Pearl Harbor for myself--just it case it wasn't quite as awful as they said it was.
Don't go, don't GO! It was perfectly awful...the worst piece of utter garbage I've seen since the last Sylvester Stallone feature.
The storyline is juvenile, derivative, unconvincing and trite. The dialogue sounds like something out of Harold Robbins.
The action sequences are technically unimpressive and mostly feature lots and lots (and LOTS) of big, fiery explosions.
The whole thing would make a great video game.
20543. MsIvoryTower - 6/6/2001 11:31:42 PM
I rented Finding Forester yesterday. I found the performances by Sean Connery and Brown(?) quite moving. I liked the closeness shown between Brown and his family, even though his father was no longer in the picture. I rarely see such normalcy portrayed about inner city black families.
The scene where F. Murray Abrams indirectly accuses Jamal of turning in plagerized work was also a killer for me. The assumptions he made were painful, but rang true. I did a similar thing to a young student during my year of student teaching, when I was fresh out of my teacher training program.
I will never forget the experience, the assumptions I made, and my guilt about it. I still think about the girl (she was a mediocre student, and I thought her a young blonde airhead), and the erroneous accusations I made about her work. Although I learned a very valuable lesson from the experience, I never got the chance to tell the girl that I had been wrong to make the assumptions I did.
Anyways, I really liked this movie. I've been thinking about it all day, which I always see as a barometer of a good movie.
20544. MaxMacks - 6/7/2001 12:05:25 AM
Toenails -20502. In a quite recent New Yorker magagine there was one of the funniest , scathing, movie reviews of Pearl Harbor that
I've read in some while.
20545. CalGal - 6/7/2001 12:08:09 AM
Ms,
I thought the story was terrible and hackneyed, but the performances were both solid, particularly Brown's. I can see why the plagiarism scene would resonate with you, but the problem is that the teacher wasn't anything more than a hack. The story would have been much more interesting had your experience been used, I think.
20546. CalGal - 6/7/2001 12:09:57 AM
I was flipping through the channels and came across LA Confidential, which really isn't seen at its best on TNT.
Still, I watched it for a bit, because the three leads are terrific. In retrospect, I think Spacey's performance comes off the best. At the time, Crowe and Pearse were the surprises whereas everyone had grown to expect it from Spacey. But when I watch it now, I watch it for his Jack Vincennes. Or maybe I just like quirky, funny, resigned, and cynical in a guy. Combined with cool clothes, of course.
20547. MsIvoryTower - 6/7/2001 8:35:36 AM
Cal
I liked the story. Abrams was a hack, I agree, but I thought a lot of the story was interesting.
It would have been better, though, had Abrams not made the multiple mistakes he did, I think most teachers in real life would not compound such an error once it's apparent they're wrong. Then they would have had to think of another way to get Connery to come to the boy's rescue (which was also a bit hackneyed).
20548. CalGal - 6/7/2001 8:40:22 AM
A bit? All it needed was Pacino. To say nothing of the fact that all the trailers showed the scene, so you knew it was coming.
I thought the basketball playing scene between the two charity kids was terrific.
20549. MsIvoryTower - 6/7/2001 8:42:49 AM
Well, I didn't see the trailers. I hate Pacino, and I've never seen Scent of a Woman, for which I'm grateful.
The basketball scene was excellent. So was the last sport scene where Paquin's father makes a deal with Jamal, and the boy loses the game (I think) deliberately.
20550. MsIvoryTower - 6/7/2001 8:46:12 AM
Actually, the way I was hoping Connery would reveal his relationship with Jamal was to offer to read his piece in the contest. The conversation they had about authors reading their work was very funny, I thought, and so true.
The story would have been better had the connection been revealed in a non-rescue event, but would have had just as much punch.
20551. glendajean - 6/7/2001 10:41:47 AM
I thought the kid deserved a nomination for best actor. He really handled the part well.
Funny about the Abram scene. When I was visiting friends a few weeks ago, they were telling John Silber stories. Silber was Dean of Arts and Sciences at UT-Austin back in the 60s. He was also something of a dictator/bully in his classes. He always claimed he was merely practicing the Socratic method, but he could be fairly brutal. Anyway, my friend talked about how he made some factual statement about a city in Europe and a female student raised her hand and corrected him. He screamed at her, stood over her chair, told her she was wrong and gave her an opportunity to recant her statement. She stood by her statement. As my friend retold the story, it reminded me of Abram's character in the movie.
20552. CalGal - 6/7/2001 10:44:15 AM
Didn't Silber move on to some other university, later on?
20553. Cellar Door - 6/7/2001 10:52:05 AM
Sacha Vierny died. He was 80 something. Unquestionably one of the greatest cinematographers in the history of the cinema: "Hiroshima Mon Amour," "Last Year at Mariendbad," and all of Peter Greenaway's features.
Sally Potter's "The Man Who Cried" is his last film.
20554. glendajean - 6/7/2001 10:52:13 AM
UT split arts and sciences into two colleges and Silber became president of Boston University.
20555. CalGal - 6/7/2001 10:54:25 AM
That was it--I thought it was BU, but Boston and Texas seemed so far away.
20556. arkymalarky - 6/7/2001 11:22:43 AM
My dad went to UT when Silber was there and has talked about him. He stands out in Dad's mind as quite a character.
20557. janjon - 6/7/2001 12:18:16 PM
Silber indeed became the President of Boston U. Did a great job in terms of improving its finances - they extract Harvard size tuition for what is a much different experience. Was known for being autocratic or "tough-minded", depending on your perspective. Had a lot of no nonsense educational theories which resonated with some.
Ran for public office (for Governor, as I recall.)
Got swamped.
He's probably making a lot of $$$$ (which he also did at B.U., having pushed the envelope in terms of what an university president should receive - with all the perks, he got more than $1 million a year. And that doesn't count his retirement/severance benefits.) doing consulting for some right wingish institute.
20558. janjon - 6/7/2001 12:19:23 PM
BTW - in case it wasn't clear, I can't stand the supercilious asshole.
20559. JudithAtHome - 6/7/2001 12:29:55 PM
I saw him in a 60 Minutes interview once...seemed like your adjectives fit, janjon.
20560. Francis Urquhart - 6/7/2001 2:31:04 PM
The House of Mirth
Edith Wharton's world of the idle rich in turn-of-the-century New York is claustrophobic, nuanced, and potentially fatal if one doesn't play all the angles. Gillian Anderson is one who does not play all the angles in her quest for a husband, which ends in her social demise.
The House of Mirth fails on two counts. First, it is solely about the ruination of Gillian Anderson. The film is one painful crucifixion followed by another, and each time, she stiffens her upper lip, and does the right thing, only to be dealt dirty again. Compelling drama can rarely be found in 2 hour plus of degrading one character, while all others inflict the degradation or meekly sympathize.
Second, the actors are not up to the material. Anderson is much too expressive, her facial reactions to slights are often over-the-top, and given the role of a person regularly abused, her bag of tricks is exhausted early. She settles for exhaustion. Others, like Anthony LaPaglia, Dan Ackroyd, Eric Stoltz, Terry Kinney, Elizabeth McGovern, and Laura Linney, fair no better in speaking Wharton's ambiguous tongue. They are blocky and wooden.
I am not unsympathetic to the hurdles of Wharton. But The House of Mirth is an unpleasant blend of bleakness, boredom and bad acting. I suggest Scorsese's "The Age of Innocence."
Grade: D-.
20561. Webfeet - 6/7/2001 2:34:39 PM
I agree completely. Saw it the other night.
The whole film was as impotent as Lawerence Selden.
20562. Francis Urquhart - 6/7/2001 2:41:51 PM
Web
Seldon was emblematic of why the entire film was a waste of time. Another wax, bemused figure, placed solely to torture Lily.
What The House of Mirth failed to do is give any context for why the indirect minuets were played New York society. Instead, you get Seldon and Lily groping and slipping some tongue, yet, moments later, unable to speak even remotely plain.
If you don't have context, the absurd terrain just seems absurd. For example, take Ms. Congeniality. There, the terrain is beauty pageants. But all the foilm did was take a bazillion easy, cheap shots at beauty pageants. It did not explain the terrain. So, the film suck (for that and several other reasons).
But take Best in Show. You can't get much more bizarre terrain that a dog show. But Guest took the time to give you various views of that terrain. Good film.
In the end, I hated Lily for her high-minded self-misery. I was happy to see her doomed.
20563. glendajean - 6/7/2001 2:52:50 PM
Francis, what is the context that you think is missing?
It's been years since I've read the book, but I remember it to be about a girl whose ambition is strong, but her pocketbook is limited, and her own greeds and desires trip up her march to society victory (a marriage to a rich man).
20564. JudithAtHome - 6/7/2001 3:33:35 PM
Anderson is much too expressive, her facial reactions to slights are often over-the-top
I'd pay money just to see this happen...I find her to be a rather wooden actress.
20565. Webfeet - 6/7/2001 3:41:09 PM
From what I was told by someone who read the book first and then saw the film, you would be really lost if you hadn't read it. I think what is lost is an understanding of why Selden, who appeared smitten by Lilly, would not rise to the role of Romantic Hero and save her from the cruelty of their class by marrying her. The social constraints are sort of broadly outlined in caricatures, but they don't explain why Selden is unable to act, especially when she is still at the peak of her powers and very desirable.
And, i agree, you have no sympathy for Lily in the end because she, like everyone else in the film, is so one-dimensional and her demise so predictable.
From the opening sequence in which she appears as a dark silhouette in Grand Central Station to her listless stupor at the end. Every action, every move announces her coming ruination with a heavy hand. In this sense, it reminded me of Theodore Drieser and 'Sister Carrie.'
The protagonists are not fully people but allegories.
20566. Francis Urquhart - 6/7/2001 4:59:53 PM
glenda
To take you into a world with unreasonable and stultifying customs, it is critical that the writer and director explain the reasons for the customs within the framework of the story. The House of mirth not only failed to provide that necessary context, but it often flitted in and out of the strictures of Wharton's society, making the actions of the characters even more incomprehensible.
20567. Cellar Door - 6/7/2001 5:06:20 PM
What The House of Mirth failed to do is give any context for why the indirect minuets were played New York society. Instead, you get Seldon and Lily groping and slipping some tongue, yet, moments later, unable to speak even remotely plain
You mean Andrew Sullivan actually talks to the guys he fucks?
20568. Francis Urquhart - 6/7/2001 5:09:43 PM
Cellar
Yes. He says, "I thought that I could manage my own life, but I have been foolish, foolish to the point of being compromised."
20569. Cellar Door - 6/8/2001 9:48:15 AM
(sadly there's no Edith Wharton equivalent for a rim shot.)
20570. Raskolnikov - 6/8/2001 2:04:01 PM
I have heard that half of blockbuster's revenues come from late fees. I can't verify it, but it sounds plausible.
20571. Raskolnikov - 6/8/2001 2:07:02 PM
However, I don't think I have rented from them for over 5 years, because of a late fee dispute. I dropped the tapes off a couple minutes before the store closed, but the clerks didn't process them as returned until the next morning, resulting in a late fee. I refused to pay, the Manager refused to drop the charges, and I walked out, with the manager threatening to destroy my credit rating. I haven't rented from them since.
20572. CalGal - 6/8/2001 2:15:05 PM
That is what one of the articles I read mentioned as well--I can't remember if it was half, but it was a lot. They changed it last year. I used to like them well enough, but the lines are obscene, the DVD selection was weak, and when I realized I was paying some $25 per rental session, it just became much easier to follow your advice.
20573. Raskolnikov - 6/8/2001 2:27:37 PM
By the way, rentmydvd.com has a similar pricing plan as Netflix, with an option for a traditional pay-per-rental plan. I recently rented a few films from them, so we will see how it goes.
There overall selection isn't as good as Netflix's, but they are doing a much better job with films new to DVD. For instance, Netflix doesn't have any of the Criterion Tati films in their inventory, whereas RMD has all three of them.
20574. Raskolnikov - 6/8/2001 2:32:59 PM
Netflix seems to be going downhill. They aren't maintaining their inventory remotely as well as they used to. I still am not close to running out of films to rent from them, but I am being forced to go elsewhere more often.
Also, I have rented quite a few films lately:
Best in Show: I liked this much better than Guffman, which I thought was over-rated. Highly recommended.
Vertical Limit: Decent mountain climbing film. It does a much better job creating the world of mountain climbers than it does of creating suspense, however.
Requiem for a Dream: Visually interesting, great performance by Burstyn, thematically coherent, but relatively unengaging, walking over well-trod territory.
Bedazzled: Light, modestly enjoyable, fluff.
20575. CalGal - 6/8/2001 3:04:26 PM
They aren't maintaining their inventory remotely as well as they used to.
I agree. What this has meant is that the films they send aren't high on my list of stuff I want to see and I end up postponing watching them. I probably only average 4 films a month now, and I've been pondering what to do about it. I tried being really alert to managing the queue (looking for movies temporarily available and putting them at the top) but it got to be a drag, especially when well over half my queue was unavailable.
So I'm paying $20 for half as many films, making me their ideal customer. I'm terribly lazy, but I need to make a call on this sometime soon.
20576. Raskolnikov - 6/8/2001 4:22:43 PM
Cal: If you are already running out of good films from Netflix, you might want to look into RMD. It has gotten great feedback at dvdtalk.com, I dvd discussion group I occasionally participate in.
20577. Raskolnikov - 6/8/2001 4:23:50 PM
20578. Webfeet - 6/8/2001 4:26:44 PM
Thanks for mentioning Requiem for a Dream, Raskolnikov. I had forgotten I wanted to see it.
Other than that, there is not a current movie I want to see. Zip. Nothing.
Has anyone seen Startup.com by chance? It's playing here at the Film Forum. I might want to see that.
20579. Raskolnikov - 6/8/2001 4:36:02 PM
There are several films out right now that I want to see. I do want to see Shrek (I know it is PG, but is the PG content stuff that a three year old would get? I was thinking of taking the Little Raskol) and Moulin Rouge. With a Friend like Harry recently showed up in town as well, and I have heard good things about that. I do have plans with my brother to see Tomb Raider next weekend.
I also have some interest in Pearl Harbor. I know it supposedly stinks, but I want to see the attack sequence on the big screen.
20580. CalGal - 6/8/2001 5:51:02 PM
Rask,
Thanks. I'll try and check it out, and add it to the bb bar.
Web,
Startup.com's appeal will depend on how hooked into the tech world (or startups) you are. If you know a lot about it it will probably be very old hat. I saw the trailer and thought it was a parody. But if you aren't very familiar with it, I think you'll find it pretty interesting.
Shrek is simply wonderful; I can't recommend it strongly enough. And Rask, you should block the little guy's eyes at the bluebird scene, but other than that he would probably love it.
20581. CalGal - 6/8/2001 5:53:58 PM
Spawn saw Pearl Harbor, expecting to be disappointed. Even with those low standards, he found it offensively bad. He was particularly upset because like you, Rask, he went for the actual attack sequence, figuring it'd be worth it if only for that. Not.
20582. Toenails - 6/8/2001 6:45:01 PM
I second the motion. Pearl Harbor shouldn't even get award nominations for technical effects.
It sucks at all levels.
20583. Cellar Door - 6/8/2001 8:45:35 PM
"With a Friend Like Harry" isn't bad.
20584. Toenails - 6/9/2001 6:57:35 AM
Will somebody who knows the movie biz explain to me why HBO and the other pay television services continuously show the poorest quality films in their collection, while rationing the decent ones...indecently?
I gather that rights fees must be based on the number of times a film is shown on television, and that the better movies have steeper fees?
If this isn't the explanation, then there IS no explanation, because the parade of tripe coming out of HBO is unending and disappointing.
20585. Toenails - 6/9/2001 7:43:41 PM
I'm a 12-hour thread-killer.
20586. AceofSpades - 6/9/2001 7:50:03 PM
Toe:
Most likely because they pay-per-play, and therefore it costs more money to run X-Men 50 times a month (like they used to do when I was a kid; that's why I know every line from Rocky 3).
So they only show X-Men ten times in a month, and fill the schedule up with Dolph Lundgren movies.
20587. Cellar Door - 6/10/2001 9:59:37 AM
20588. Jamie R - 6/10/2001 10:10:31 AM
Yup. Saw Flash Gordon 14 times one summer. I was too young to pick up on camp- to me it was just "cool, that alien's eyes are coming out."
And speaking of camp, I saw MI2 again the other night. It was better than I remembered, although Tom Cruise was worse than I remembered (and inexplicably I unfailingly like him.) But the thing about that movie that strikes me is how utterly unironic Woo is with his sort of mystical hyper machoism- glowing white doves in slow motion and all that. There is zero humor in the movie, no self-deprecation on the part of the hero, no in jokes, no too clever patter, no mockery at all. I find it kind of refreshing, but I think Woo would be horrified that his earnestness looks so much like camp. (Or maybe he does know, but I'd like to believe that's not the case.)
20589. Jamie R - 6/10/2001 10:21:18 AM
Almost Famous- the mother was the only interesting character in the movie.
Unfortunately Crowe evidently thought the Penny Lane character was worth most of our attention. Is there anyone who hasn't met in real life at least a dozen virtually identical hippy free spirit girls? Does anyone really find them interesting?
Granted we're supposed to be seeing all this through the eyes of a 15 year old boy, and I fully believed that he would fall hopelessly in love with her. But since he was a bit of a non-entity, she didn't catch much reflected light from him.
Put the mother back on the phone with the rock star, sez I.
20590. CalGal - 6/10/2001 10:23:11 AM
I like Cruise, too, for no good reason. I'm not a Woo fan, and while I didn't like MI2 at all, I didn't feel the same rage I felt at MI1, which was a desecration.
Saw Moulin Rouge. I may write more on it later, but I have a feeling this is a polarizing film about which it's hard to be ambivalent. I thought it was wonderful. A shame that teen girls can't go gaga over this one; it has all the elements.
20591. CalGal - 6/10/2001 10:29:40 AM
Jamie,
Oh, I totally agree. I can't remember if I've written about it yet, but it is no big shock to me that Crowe married a rock star, given that he is absolutely a groupie. The story may have been tangentially about writers and musicians, but its heart and soul was about the tragedy of being temporarily with the band, but never of it, and how all they really do is good deeds, selflessly for love of music.
Not for nothing did the groupies always say, "He's one of us." Hell, even the sex scene was "just between girls".
Frances McDormand was wonderful, as were the two lead musicians (Crudup and Lee).
20592. Jamie R - 6/10/2001 10:41:39 AM
Yes, I forgot to mention Jason Lee. I'm glad he's showing up in more stuff. I liked him in Chasing Amy.
And my daughter is sternly demanding that I let her read me a book, so I have to go.
20593. JudithAtHome - 6/10/2001 11:56:02 AM
Anyone seen this one?
The Anniversary Party
20594. arkymalarky - 6/10/2001 12:18:36 PM
Mose did "go gaga" over Moulin Rouge and wants to buy it as soon as it becomes available. She loves musicals anyway, but she really thought it was great.
20595. CalGal - 6/10/2001 12:21:46 PM
That's good to hear. Lord knows I think Affleck is a pretty lad, but MacGregor is gorgeous and, from what I remember of the teen years, more immediately appealing. The boy can sing, too.
20596. CalGal - 6/10/2001 12:23:11 PM
I don't often buy movie soundtracks, but in the past 6 months O Brother, Shrek, and now Moulin Rouge have put together remarkable collections.
20597. arkymalarky - 6/10/2001 12:28:43 PM
I wonder if the soundtrack to M/R is on sale yet.
20598. CalGal - 6/10/2001 12:31:33 PM
I haven't looked it up yet, but I would bet thousands in virtual cash that it is on sale.
20599. JudithAtHome - 6/10/2001 12:34:23 PM
MacGregor is gorgeous
I just don't see this...he seems very plain and ordinary looking to me. For someone to register as "gorgeous" to me, he or she has to be the sort that I would turn for a second look with mouth agape as they passed.
MacGregor may be appealing and very good at what he does but he's just a nice enough looking lad to me.
20600. CalGal - 6/10/2001 12:36:43 PM
Yes, Amazon seems to be down right now but there is a soundtrack.
20601. Indiana Jones - 6/10/2001 2:59:30 PM
Have been on a Rita Hayworth kick lately and so watched You Were Never Lovelier.
First, the good stuff. Rita, Rita, Rita...and Fred (Astaire, that is). Lordy, but the camera loved that woman, and in this film she just looks smashing. Her outfits show off her assets stunningly (most of the budget of the film must have gone for her wardrobe, rather than writers). She sings, she dances, but mostly she just makes you want to be an early 40s cameraman.
As for Fred, well personally I've always preferred Gene Kelly, except when it comes to sheer grace and style. Astaire does the usual sublime footwork here, and besides Hayworth, that's worth watching. (Though Rita's no slotch in the footwork department, either.)
In fact, I've decided Rita Hayworth had Marilyn Monroe beat hands down. I know Monroe is the icon, but there's that famous photo of Hayworth that all the GIs were supposed to have had in their footlockers during WWII, so maybe she was America's "face that launched a thousand ships." In any case, she did as fine a job of dressing up a movie set with sexuality, beauty, and class as any woman I've seen--period.
This film's plot OTOH was dated by 19th century standards and fairly tedious--especially by the last 30 minutes. It's worth renting, but not for watching start to finish. Just fast forward to the dance numbers and to see what get-up Hayworth is going to look like a million bucks in next.
Video Golden Retriever gives it 3 1/2 bones, but I'd give it 1 star for Hayworth and half a star for Astaire.
20602. Cellar Door - 6/10/2001 3:30:11 PM
No argument from me.
Rita's tops!
20603. Cellar Door - 6/10/2001 3:38:33 PM
Columbia was by and large a B studio until Capra got it on its feet artistically. But it was Rita who really made it work. She was The Star at Columbia. No other. And the fact is they didn't need another. She's unpseakably luscious at all times. She could dance beautifully. But as You Were Never Lovelier shows, all you need is a good song for a good singer to sing to her. Aim the camera at Rita and you've got gold!
Lately I've come to know a gentleman named Robert Board. He worked in various capacities in Hollywood as a publicist, an extra and even a bit player over the years. He was in publicity at Columbia pictures in the 1940's, slaving away in his office when he asked his bosses if it were possible to go and watch them shoot a movie. They said yes. So Bob walked onto a sound stage for the first time to see Rita and Gene Kelly dancing the "Long Ago and Far Away" number from Cover Girl.
As you can well imagine, its been downhill ever since.
20604. Indiana Jones - 6/10/2001 4:48:03 PM
She's unpseakably luscious at all times.
Unfortunately NetFlix doesn't have a lot with her in it...and since I've started watching DVDs videos seem so inferior.
20605. Uzmakk - 6/10/2001 6:12:40 PM
Yes. I am making a box for Darwin's The Descent of Man.
20606. Raskolnikov - 6/10/2001 9:27:16 PM
Indy: Gilda and Lady from Shanghai are in stock at Netflix, and are probably her two most enduring films.
20607. MsIvoryTower - 6/10/2001 11:54:33 PM
Well, I finally got to see Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon tonight. I must say, it was glorious in a way that is hard to describe, but I really didn't understand the ending. I suppose I'll watch it again to fill in the blanks.
20608. angel-five - 6/11/2001 12:01:24 AM
I saw The Ninth Gate and actually enjoyed it a good bit, especially the second time. The chick who plays 'the stranger' is the type that gets me every time and she did a good job too.
20609. angel-five - 6/11/2001 12:05:56 AM
And Depp was his usual excellent self. Good enough to make me forget Sleepy Hollow.
Top Ten Favorite Actors:
In no order
Robert De Niro
Val Kilmer
Colm Feore
Johnny Depp
Lawrence Fishburne
Eric Stoltz
John Cusack
Max von Sydow
Tim Roth
Robert Downey
20610. HollyW - 6/11/2001 12:10:07 AM
Explain Eric Stoltz to me, although I am with you otherwise. He bugs the everlovin shit out of me.
20611. Frankster - 6/11/2001 12:20:21 AM
Holly =swo-o-o-o-on
Along with 'net surfing, and doing the laundry, I am also currently watching the first Diehard on FX, and I still can't for the life of me see what some of the women in here see in the guy playing the head terrorist....What's his name again ?
Angel-Five
What, no Harrison Ford, Dustin Hoffman or Tom Cruise ?
20612. angel-five - 6/11/2001 12:26:30 AM
Dustin Hoffman might make the list in all seriousness, he rocks the house.
RE: Stoltz.
He's a good actor, is why he's up there. I could give a more detailed argument but it's kind of late. De gustibus non disputandum est, I suppose.
20613. angel-five - 6/11/2001 12:28:45 AM
There are older actors who are much more technically proficient than most of the younger names on my list, but I tend to like a little more fire and drive in an actor. And the thing about these lists is that they change for me from day to day. It's all in who I remember first.
20614. angel-five - 6/11/2001 12:29:50 AM
Finishing the thought -- Harrison Ford isn't a great actor, he's a decent one. And Tom Cruise never impressed me.
20615. Indiana Jones - 6/11/2001 8:14:18 AM
Rask: Have seen both of those. Think I reviewed "Lady from Shanghai" fairly recently. If not, I meant too.
Also did a little research into Hayworth's life. Why is it that so many of those early Hollywood bombshells had such dire life stories? Apparently Hayworth was sexually abused by her father, then the obligatory string of failed marriages, ending in slow death by Alzheimer's (which was misdiagnosed at the time as alcoholism).
Perhaps Yeats put it best:
May she be granted beauty and yet not
Beauty to make a stranger's eye distraught,
Or hers before a looking-glass, for such,
Being made beautiful overmuch,
Consider beauty a sufficient end,
Lose natural kindness and maybe
The heart-revealing intimacy
That chooses right, and never find a friend.
Helen being chosen found life flat and dull
And later had much trouble from a fool,
While that great Queen, that rose out of the spray,
Being fatherless could have her way
Yet chose a bandy-leggd smith for man.
It's certain that fine women eat
A crazy salad with their meat
Whereby the Horn of Plenty is undone.
--"A Prayer for My Daughter"
20616. Indiana Jones - 6/11/2001 8:19:41 AM
The pinup: 
Supposedly, this shot adorned the atomic bomb that was dropped on Bikini Atoll
20617. JudithAtHome - 6/11/2001 9:19:41 AM
Franque:
The terrorist in Diehard is Alan Rickman and he is very sexy indeed. He had one dynamite role in Truly Madly Deeply that will forever cement him in womens hearts as a deliciously romantic man...
And Harrison Ford is the equivalent of a ventriloquists dummy for me...very wooden.
20618. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 9:51:16 AM
MsIT: The ending of Crouching Tiger makes sense to me. (Spoilers) The central conflict in the film is within Jen, over what path she will take in life - the route of the evil Jade Fox or the good Li Mu Bai. After the death of both characters, Jen is told (by Michelle Yeoh) something to the affect that she will have to choose her path. Her leap was based on the legend that she will not die after such a leap if she has a pure heart. My take is that she jumped to test herself. If she lives, meaning her heart is pure, she will live and be with her lover. If her heart isn't pure, she will die. If the mysticism implicit in the first option bothers you, remember that her Wudan training allows her to float/glide. We haven't seen her tackle anything from that height before, but we do see her floating down very slowly.
I listened to the commentary track on my DVD last night. It is very informative about the conventions of Hong Kong cinema that the film was playing with (a lot of which I didn't know, despite having watched a hundred or so kung fu films). Ang Lee didn't really explain the ending, but he did comment that the producers liked the ending because it left open the possibility of a sequel.
20619. MsIvoryTower - 6/11/2001 10:20:10 AM
Rask
That does make sense, then. I was left wondering what would happen, would she survive or would she die, but hadn't tied it her position in the struggle between Jade Fox and Li Mu Bai.
A sequel? How hollywoodish.
20620. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 10:33:37 AM
Hong Kong films makes Hollywood look like pikers when it comes to sequels. As a merging of Hong Kong and Hollywood cinematic conventions, a sequel is almost inevitable.
Ang Lee had a fascinating comment on the DVD. He said that he never realized how difficult it was to make an action movie with some actual dramatic heft. According to him, just doing the fight scenes take most of the time and budget that would normally be allowed for the film. Working with the actors to create believable characterization and drama was akin to making another movie, requiring twice as much time and money to create the film.
It was an eye-opening comment, as far as I was concerned, doing a lot to explain why good action (or song and dance numbers in Hollywood musicals, which take similar effort) and good drama/characterization are so often dichotomous choices in making most films.
20621. rubberducky - 6/11/2001 1:38:55 PM
rented the newer edition of Aliens from NetFlix recently. i liked the new footage - it added a little dramatic heft to an already wonderful movie.
my favorite new stuff was seeing Newt's family and the attack that kills them. this, to me, makes you give more of a damn about her as opposed to her just popping up later in the movie screaming love me, protect me to Ripley.
anyway, worth a rental even if just to watch one of the best sci-fi/horror movies ever made one more time
5 of 5 quacks.
20622. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 2:12:50 PM
I had the exact opposite reaction, I disliked the early stuff with Newt. I thought the film worked better keeping the point of view with Ripley and the marines, and I don't like it that The Company's hand is tipped early, showing us that they ordered the exploration of the alien vessel.
20623. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 2:14:15 PM
But the DVD does rock, with crystal clear images, and great sound. It was one of the first films I tested out with my home theater system. And I do like the rest of the added scenes, particularly those involving Ripley and her daughter.
20624. rubberducky - 6/11/2001 2:19:07 PM
i agree with your second point (in 20622), Rask, but when Newt shows up without the extra footage, it looks just thrown in. someone to feel sorry for and someone, at random, for Ripley to protect instead of helping the damn Marines.
of course, the only thing i liked about Alien 3 was the fact she was killed off 3 minutes into it.
20625. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 2:28:45 PM
I don't think most people need to be introduced to a little girl early in a film in order to feel empathy for her later on.
And I hated that they killed her in pre-credit sequence of Alien3! It basically made all her efforts in Aliens pointless. I pretend that I never saw the film.
20626. rubberducky - 6/11/2001 2:36:43 PM
eh, i hated Newt. Ripley needed to do her damn job and not fuss over some little brat who did nothing other than distract from the point of the movie.
and, of course, saving Newt was pointless. it speaks to the pointlessness of life and how The Company will always win. somehow, life finds a way, but there are always consequences.
...
or, um, something like that.
20627. CalGal - 6/11/2001 4:22:47 PM
I'm agnostic on the added scenes, but killing off Newt, Hicks, and Bishop in the opening of Alien 3 was one of the great film crimes of all time.
20628. Jamie R - 6/11/2001 5:08:33 PM
Hear, hear. Alien Resurrection was unbelievably awful, but Alien 3 was flat out reprehensible.
20629. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 5:13:32 PM
Alien Resurrection was at least a complete visual mindfuck, to the point where you gave up on the narrative in favor of a visual experience. It was never boring to look at.
Alien3, however, was just ugly and inept. There are a handful of redeemable scenes, but the film is generally so slow-paced and uninteresting to look at that you have way too much time to think about how little sense the story makes.
20630. CalGal - 6/11/2001 5:16:06 PM
It's never to late to make it Bobby in the shower, Sigourney. C'mon, do it.
BTW, Rask, have you seen Moulin Rouge? Bizarre as this must sound, I went to it not knowing that it was a musical.
20631. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 5:20:10 PM
That must have been a trip. I haven't seen it yet. I might try to get to it this weekend, but I think I may be in too much karmic babysitting debt after this weekend, when I spent all day Saturday playing paintball and poker as part of a bachelor party.
20632. CalGal - 6/11/2001 5:25:46 PM
Ha. Don't they have babysitters in Minneapolis? Or is that where the karma comes in?
20633. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 5:37:29 PM
Different aspect of karma. My wife is in a wedding in a couple weeks, and our 4th anniversary is coming up, so we will need to call in lots of babysitters for those events. That means babysitting favors have to rationed.
We don't have any neighbor kids we can rely on (at least, not with a 4 month old), so we depend on adult friends and relatives.
20634. CalGal - 6/11/2001 5:42:29 PM
Ah. I'm not really one to talk; neither the ex or I ever used a babysitter, although occasionally he'd go spend the night at his grandma's.
Have you been taking the older one (about 3, yes?) to movies? I started taking Spawn to nighttime movies when he was about this age. When he was two plus, he went to Home Alone and The Little Mermaid; I'm sure there are others, but that's the only one I can remember. But when he turned three and I was single, I remember taking him to Beauty and the Beast and Star Trek VI (keeping in mind the kid was a serious Trekkie, even then) on "opening night", on the condition that he napped during the day. I told him all about using movie voices, which became my way of telling him to be hushed in any situation. ("remember, this is a movie voice place.")
20635. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 5:47:12 PM
I have taken him to a couple films (Toy Story 2 and the Grinch spring to mind. He didn't like the Grinch - I was very proud of him). Basically, there are very few 3yr old-appropriate films out I think he or I would enjoy, so not much has come up. But I am planning on taking him to see Shrek sometime this week.
20636. CalGal - 6/11/2001 5:51:11 PM
Yes, likewise I'm most proud of Spawn for sneering at Pearl Harbor. He'll love Shrek, I think.
20637. DanDillon - 6/11/2001 7:53:08 PM
Memento? Anyone?
20638. CalGal - 6/11/2001 9:02:22 PM
Yes. I was furious at it. I'll hunt up my comments; they're back a bit.
20639. DanDillon - 6/11/2001 9:24:03 PM
Furious? You must tell me why.
20640. CalGal - 6/11/2001 9:27:02 PM
BTW, I was just in Kansas City but everytime I thought of emailing you I couldn't hunt up your email address and you weren't around. But I'll be going back again, if you want to do lunch or something. (I'm doing a lot of work in the Lenexa/Oletha/Overland Park area).
My Memento review is here: Message # 19938 and then some other stuff starts here: Message # 20041.
20641. Jenerator - 6/11/2001 9:29:17 PM
I want to see Pearl Harbor for the special effects.
Having taught 150 students about the day of infamy, I have a great desire to see it on the big screen. A fair number of my students do too.
20642. CalGal - 6/11/2001 9:34:44 PM
If you want to see the day of infamy done well on the big screen, wait until From Here to Eternity hits the art houses again. Not even the effects appear to be worth it.
20643. DanDillon - 6/11/2001 9:37:40 PM
Wrt Memento
I figured it out 20 minutes in....
Figured what out? There's nothing to figure out.
My public e-mail quelquechz@hotmail.com
Jen,
Still waiting patiently for that e-mail with the attachment....
20644. CalGal - 6/11/2001 9:42:33 PM
You don't think there's anything to figure out?
What did you think of the movie?
I added the "e" at the end of your email. Drat.
20645. Jenerator - 6/11/2001 9:42:51 PM
dan,
You are a saint.
Then again, I wasn't sure if you were still alive.
20646. DanDillon - 6/11/2001 9:45:38 PM
...and kicking!
Spare me the saint stuff, will ya? It damages my rep. So let's have it, sweet dear lovely Jen.
You don't think there's anything to figure out?
No. You're not suggesting that the backwards structure was a code a break, are you? And certainly the rapist/murderer was revealed within minutes, so that can't be it either.
20647. DanDillon - 6/11/2001 9:46:46 PM
s/b a code to break
20648. CalGal - 6/11/2001 9:48:47 PM
No, he wasn't the rapist/murderer.
20649. DanDillon - 6/11/2001 9:49:38 PM
Eh?
20650. DanDillon - 6/11/2001 9:51:38 PM
Yes, I suppose she could have been diabetic, or it could have been a hallucination, or the film might not even exist all, or memroy may be so faulty that we really have no idea what we're even talking about.
And that's precisely the point.
20651. Shannon - 6/11/2001 9:52:45 PM
I told him all about using movie voices, which became my way of telling him to be hushed in any situation. ("remember, this is a movie voice place.")
That's funny.
We're planning to get out to see Shrek soon as well. Maybe next weekend.
Rented Ghost Dog this weekend. Weird. We also rented Gladiator, which DH watched last night. He's very fond of the big epic things.
20652. CalGal - 6/11/2001 9:59:19 PM
Oh, they'll all love it, Shannon. Unless they're fussy about birds. If you're worried, make sure you cover their eyes when the bluebird sings.
Dan,
SPOILER:
He was a serial killer, basically, who was used by LA lowlifes to kill their anointed enemy. I think that could have been interesting. But the director squidged it all at the end, throwing all the rules out.
20653. DanDillon - 6/11/2001 10:04:18 PM
Explain.
20654. CalGal - 6/11/2001 10:16:25 PM
Did you see Message # 20044? It's the two messages of mine in white font. I run through the reason I come to that conclusion--tentatively.
20655. wabbit - 6/11/2001 10:26:08 PM
One of the drawbacks to being confined to bed for several hours a day is that you find yourself watching the most unbelievably bad movies. Usually they are bad enough that I just fall asleep, but some are so bad that they are spellbinding. One among the dreck on cable in the past month was Supreme Sanction, a movie with Kristy Swanson (and I am a big fan of the Buffy movie) as a US gov't assasin (just a tad more believable than the truly horrible Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist in the last Bond disaster). Michael Madsen and Ron Perlman were wasted in this one. Kristy looks great as a redhead, though. See for yourself, the trailer is available at IMDb.
But the absolute bottom of the barrel was Beyond the Poseidon Adventure, the "sequel" to the Poseidon Adventure. Did this one make the list of really bad Michael Caine movies?
20656. CalGal - 6/11/2001 10:32:05 PM
I am nearly sure it was one of the ones we mentioned that he made for money.
You need a DVD player and a changer.
20657. wabbit - 6/11/2001 10:38:14 PM
I'll break down and get a DVD player when I get a digital tv, which will be an incredible waste of money, since I don't usually watch more than a couple hours of tv a week. I have trouble watching movies all the way through on tv.
I live for commercials.
Hmmm, should this all have been in the tv thread?
20658. angel-five - 6/11/2001 10:54:11 PM
Denise Richards may be horrible, but. (smacking lips).
20659. wabbit - 6/11/2001 11:03:41 PM
I suppose I can understand the physical attraction, although I don't find her all that pretty, but then she speaks and the game is up.
And perhaps you are, too (sorry, couldn't help myself).
Who is the other one, pretty but braindead, who evidently played Audrey Hepburn in some movie? I remember hearing an interviewer ask how she felt about playing the fabulous Hepburn. This dipshit replied that she felt confident but that her breasts were bigger than Hepburn's.
20660. angel-five - 6/11/2001 11:07:43 PM
Well, I understand that, about not finding her pretty. I've generally non-standard ideas on female beauty and typical Hollywood beauty-queen types seem, well, typical to me. Denise Richards is one of the few abberations I allow myself in this regard.
20661. Raskolnikov - 6/11/2001 11:13:21 PM
Wabbit: That was Jennifer Love Hewitt.
20662. CalGal - 6/11/2001 11:22:10 PM
I have said before that Denise Richards has the goods on the kiddie porn fetishes of several major studio executives. Because there just isn't any other reason why she'd get work in a world with Jasmine Bleeth.
20663. DanDillon - 6/12/2001 10:26:30 AM
Best looking female actors currently working in the industry: 
Natalie Portman 
Claire Danes 
Katie Holmes 
Charlize Theron 
Nicole Kidman
You are at liberty to amend this list, certainly complementing it with male actors.
20664. arkymalarky - 6/12/2001 11:44:38 AM
A stupid look on anyone renders them instantly unattractive, and Denise Richards has the word plastered on her face, from what little I've seen. Otoh, an air of intelligence is very appealing. Granted, it can disappear like a wift of smoke in a breeze once someone opens his mouth--I have a friend who wrote a good song about that once. The whole song describes this vision of a man she noted in the audience while performing, then the last line: "But then what a big joke. You came up and spoke."
20665. don s. - 6/12/2001 4:05:20 PM
Luckyducky: “... as opposed to her just popping up later in the movie screaming love me, protect me to Ripley.”
Hits a little too close to home, doesn't it?
20666. milkmaid - 6/12/2001 5:03:27 PM
Anyone remember a 1988 movie called "Midnight Run"? I picked it up at Target for five bucks, remembering it to be somewhat amusing, but I'm surprised to see it rated R. I don't let the kiddies watch R-rated movies. Is this that bad or is 1988's R rating similar to a 2001 PG?
20667. CalGal - 6/12/2001 5:11:59 PM
It is good, and I think there is a discussion of it on Mote Movies (or maybe I haven't converted it yet). I don't remember anything violent--the language is pretty rough. Terrific performance by Grodin.
20668. milkmaid - 6/12/2001 5:18:43 PM
It's not on Mote Movies, but thanks for giving me another way to waste time looking through what is there.
And the profanity they are familiar with, unfortunately; as long as there's no real gore it should be okay.
20669. Raskolnikov - 6/12/2001 5:40:03 PM
Cal Gal's recollection is accurate. I think a few people get beat up, but the violence, as I recall, is PG level. It gets the R for its language. I don't think there is even any sex in it.
20670. CalGal - 6/12/2001 5:44:01 PM
I don't even remember any women in it, except the one scene with the exwife and daughter--which is a wonderful scene, not to be missed by adult or child.
20671. PsychProf - 6/12/2001 5:47:24 PM
Line from "Gus and Tillie", with WC Fields...
"Do you like children?"
WC..."only when they are well cooked"
20672. Cellar Door - 6/12/2001 8:03:48 PM
Caught "It's a Gift"last night on the TCM Fields block. Never ceases to amaze me that he got away with a film like that. It only improves with age. While the rest of Hollywood created fantasy, Fields gave us the stark, unvarnished truth about lower middle-class American life.
Better than Italian neo-realism any day of the week.
20673. PsychProf - 6/12/2001 8:57:27 PM
Cellar...we both were watching that.
20674. Raskolnikov - 6/12/2001 9:30:35 PM
Anyone else watching the AFI 100 thrills special? Some very nice clips, although I had to send my 3 yr old upstairs after he got spooked by the "scary silver man" (the T1000 from Terminator 2).
I am, however, preparing to be indignant, as evidently T2 is the only sequel on the list, meaning no Aliens or Empire Strikes Back.
20675. dusty - 6/12/2001 10:11:19 PM
milkmaid
I accidentally watched it one day. Just switching channels, watched for a bit, then kept watching. A very pleasnat surprise.
I later made a point of wathcing from the beginning.
I agree with what has been posted earlier—I can't recall anythong major in terms of an R rating, and there are definitely scenes worth watching.
20676. CalGal - 6/12/2001 10:21:27 PM
Rask,
What channel?
Incidentally, milk, Midnight Run is a very well-regarded movie, and Grodin got a lot of praise for going toe to toe with de Niro and coming out in a tie at worst.
20677. Toenails - 6/13/2001 7:16:00 AM
Great as De Niro is, he sometimes brings to mind the old Holden Caulfield observation to the effect that when you are thinking, in the middle of an actor's performance, what a great actor he is, maybe something's not quite right.
I'm also bemused by how many excellent actors who appear on interview shows and are being merely themselves turn out to be (apparently) Delta Minuses. Is there no correlation at all between acting ability and native intelligence?
20678. milkmaid - 6/13/2001 8:16:52 AM
So I guess for $4.99 it was a steal. We'll watch it tonight after work.
20679. JudithAtHome - 6/13/2001 8:22:22 AM
Is there no correlation at all between acting ability and native intelligence?
I would say no...
20680. rubberducky - 6/13/2001 11:51:11 AM
Hits a little too close to home, doesn't it?
thanks for the laugh Don S.
i thought you were losing your humor in your desperate attempts for petty swipes, but no, you still can make me laugh - just with much less frequency. i chalk it up to you getting older, fwiw.
20681. CalGal - 6/13/2001 12:45:58 PM
Toe,
I'd say there are different kinds of actors. De Niro has always seemed a tad dim. Cruise is another one who seems the Gary Cooper sort--the camera likes his face, but there's nothing much behind it.
Then there are the movie stars like Gibson, Hanks and Clooney, who seem to me to be smart, knowledgeable about their craft, savvy about their career, but not particularly intellectual or "creative" in the artistic sense.
Then there are the ones who really do seem to be bright--Cusack comes to mind immediately, as does Malkovich.
20682. rubberducky - 6/13/2001 1:45:23 PM
from InfoBeat:
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The mother of all slasher films, "Psycho," topped the American Film Institute list of 100 most thrilling movies, with "Jaws" and "The Exorcist" coming in second and third. "Psycho" director Alfred Hitchcock and "Jaws" director Steven Spielberg combined for 15 films on the list released Tuesday. Hitchcock placed nine movies on the list, with two others in the Top 10 - "North By Northwest" at No. 4 and "The Birds" at No. 7. Spielberg had six films, including "Raiders of the Lost Ark" at No. 10. The rest of the Top 10 were: No. 5, "The Silence of the Lambs"; No. 6, "Alien"; No. 8, "The French Connection"; and No. 9, "Rosemary's Baby." The rankings were announced in a special aired Tuesday night on CBS. The institute began issuing an annual list on different movie themes three years ago, with a roster of the Top 100 American films. The latest list was chosen by about 1,800 directors, actors, studio executives, critics and others in Hollywood, who voted from a field of 400 nominated movies.
20683. CalGal - 6/13/2001 1:54:17 PM
I thought the combo of thrilling and horror films was weak. Titanic really shouldn't have been on the list at all. I just saw the top 30 last night.
It was nice seeing Clockwork Orange up there; I thought maybe people had forgotten about it, in their rush to overpraise the TItanic.
20684. rubberducky - 6/13/2001 1:57:38 PM
agreed - Titanic should go in a Top 100 Weepy Movies list, but that's about it
20685. Raskolnikov - 6/13/2001 2:19:04 PM
I was very unimpressed. Not only was Aliens - the greatest action movie ever made - dissed, but so were Mark of Zorro, Gunga Din, Empire Strikes Back, Sea Hawk, Crimson Pirate, Black Pirate, and a host of others. With Robin Hood at #100, barely making the list?
In favor of Clockwork Orange, Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind, The Godfather, Casablanca, 2001, and ET?
These aren't action movies, horror films, or thrillers. They are dramas.
It sounds like Science Fiction films were just included as a genre, but if that is the case, where is Forbidden Planet, Empire Strikes Back, Brazil, and Them?
I actually liked a lot of the last two lists, but this one is pretty awful. The top five is about what I expected, however. I knew Psycho would be #1.
20686. Raskolnikov - 6/13/2001 2:21:55 PM
Not to mention mediocrities like Dial M, Poseidon Adventure, Speed, The Omen, and The Birds.
I should have thrown 12 Angry Men and Kwai on the above list of dramas that have no business being there.
20687. milkmaid - 6/13/2001 2:23:16 PM
If I could at all use html, I would write Redrum in large bleeding red letters right now.
20688. rubberducky - 6/13/2001 2:25:10 PM
i forgot to mention Aliens Rask - that alone invalidates the whole damn thing, imho.
not that the others in your list weren't 'thrilling', but Aliens was and is just so ... it.
20689. CalGal - 6/13/2001 2:26:43 PM
I like Clockwork Orange for horror, I was glad to see it there. But I hadn't even looked at the whole list. It's a mess.
Milk,
Check HTML Hints.
20690. rubberducky - 6/13/2001 2:26:57 PM
for mm:
Redrum
20691. milkmaid - 6/13/2001 2:28:29 PM
It's not bleeding, though.
Bye all, off to work.
20692. Toenails - 6/13/2001 5:47:19 PM
Alien -- the original, not the sequel, although it, too, was fine --has to be the scariest damned movie ever put together.
But Psycho isn't a bad choice for #1.
None of the Charleton Heston epics belonged on the list, although some of his NRA speeches would qualify.
20693. MsIvoryTower - 6/13/2001 6:39:05 PM
I think Ben-Hur was a great picture, certainly better than Titanic, or some of the others ahead of it.
I also think The Manchurian Candidate was underrated on the list, it should be closer to the top. It was one damn scary movie, in a creepy, no-they-can't-really-do-that-can-they kind of way.
20694. ScottLoar - 6/13/2001 6:45:49 PM
re Message # 20682: I understand "thrilling" here to narrowly mean the sort of action sequences that American movies do best - constant action and surprises like the Raiders of the Lost Ark genre - but still, no mention of The Other (1972) which was quietly horrific? The Treasure of the Sierra Madre is a pacifier by comparison.
20695. ScottLoar - 6/13/2001 6:50:22 PM
Understatement is not appreciated by the ratings people.
20696. CalGal - 6/13/2001 8:11:22 PM
As has been mentioned before now, these lists are intended to drive rentals and movie sales. Look at it from that perspective and maybe some of the choices make more sense. Still, it's a stupid mix.
20697. Cellar Door - 6/13/2001 8:30:29 PM
Where's "The Haunting"? Where's "Peeping Tom"? Where's "Frankenstein Created Woman"?Where's "Scream and Scream Again"?
Really dumb list.
20698. Raskolnikov - 6/13/2001 8:46:10 PM
Never mind some of the other Universal pictures, like Invisible Man and The Mummy.
Or Showgirls (rim shot).
20699. Raskolnikov - 6/13/2001 8:49:22 PM
Haunting is a very nice catch. Uninvited would have been another good one.
Or the remake of The Fly and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
The more I think about it, the worse the list gets. I think the problem is rooted in the 400 that the top 100 were chosen from. If you put Godfather and 2001 on a list of the 400 "greatest romantic comedies of all time" they are going to get a shitload of votes.
They should have done a better job of narrowing down the contenders.
20700. ScottLoar - 6/13/2001 10:11:12 PM
I resolve to disregard casual "best-of" lists from now on, particularly if publicly posted or offered in forums such as this.
20701. ScottLoar - 6/13/2001 10:14:13 PM
Personal "best-of" lists are not casually composed as they necessarily comprise some part of the compiler's experience and subjectivity and so I them an interesting comment on the person, but lists by committee or group or academy seem worthless to me.
20702. ScottLoar - 6/13/2001 10:14:49 PM
Corrigendum: I find them
20703. CalGal - 6/13/2001 10:20:37 PM
I like getting all het up about how bad they are. It's kind of fun to remember the good stuff again.
20704. ScottLoar - 6/13/2001 10:26:33 PM
You may be sure I will offer my best-of list on any subject should the mood rouse me.
20705. CalGal - 6/13/2001 10:30:53 PM
Oh, I don't think individual lists are bad--I either agree or disagree. But when it's a compilation done by so-called experts, I expect a reasonable result.
I think Rask is right about the list of contenders. No one's going to skip The Godfather, whether or not they think it's a thriller.
20706. Raskolnikov - 6/14/2001 12:06:44 AM
I often like group compendiums, as I have used them in the past to figure out what films I might want to watch. In my experience, I have a much greater chance of liking "canonical films" (films where there is a strong consenus of greatness among a wide variety of critics and film buffs) than I do of films that are only liked by a few. Exceptions abound, of course, but I have used "best of" lists to direct me toward a hell of a lot of great films.
Which is part of why bad lists like this AFI list annoy me. A lot of canonical horror films, action movies, and thrillers, have been ignored, in favor of some really mediocre films, or great dramas that have somehow infiltrated a list of thrillers. The movie going public is worse for it.
20707. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 5:44:34 AM
A strong consensus of popular opinion does not good taste make as testifies these "best of" lists again and again so why use them? They are an exercise in frustration. "Canonical films" number how many? Two dozen? Three? Which by now most everybody's seen and has fixed an opinion (no, I don't like Battleship Potemkin; yes, Wizard of Oz is a great movie much, much better than the book).
20708. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 5:49:13 AM
I solicit the opinion of reviewers or persons whose critical insight I respect and I'm seldom disappointed; popular nomination gives Chocolat which only holds my interest long enough to watch Johnny Dep's continuing slide and wonder why anyone thinks this guy has talent or appeal.
20709. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 6:21:02 AM
I'll answer that. It seems a movie star is made by "the look" which producers or directors in their unique wisdom find fetching, just as fashion models are chosen by the prevailing whim of a few fashion mavens. And so Johnny Dep continues on with a vacant stare that gets him into movie after movie; Julia Robert's smile appears again and again to be rewarded while Marilyn Streep, one of the few talented persons who can actually claim the title "actor" without embarrassment in my opinion has lost "the look". I find damned little talent behind most popular faces I see on screen, and almost none on television (Bob Sackett comes to mind as the very worst of tv).
20710. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 6:26:31 AM
I did not intend Louis Lamour's Sackett.
20712. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 7:14:45 AM
I do hope Johnny Dep gets a change of clean clothes for his next movie. He's always shambling around in stained shirt and trousers from Goodwill Industries.
20713. Cellar Door - 6/14/2001 10:02:28 AM
Johnny Depp is our finest working actor.
Your taste is in your mouth, Loar.
20714. milkmaid - 6/14/2001 10:10:46 AM
Is Marilyn Streep related to Meryl?
I just realized that this is a place where I can get some sympathy for spending the last fifteen years of my life with someone so completely wrong for me.
Recently dh and I were waiting to be seated at a restaurant, behind a frumpy middle-aged woman who was biting her husband's head off about getting a table. I turned to dh and said, "Don't you hate Perry's wife?"
And he said, "You know, I really don't waste brain space memorizing movie lines and trivia the way you do."
20715. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:11:16 AM
CellarDoor, I've noticed you always defend good-looking males and just around the same time pronounce them gay or closet gay. Now, is it libido which prompts your defense of Johnny Depp or can you explain why he's "our finest working actor"? And by "our" I suppose you intend Western Civilization?
20716. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:13:20 AM
re Message # 20714: Now that you say so, yes, it is Meryl Streep, and now you know I really don't waste brain space memorizing movie lines and trivia the way some do.
20717. milkmaid - 6/14/2001 10:13:52 AM
Or actor's names.
20718. CalGal - 6/14/2001 10:17:40 AM
Milk,
hahahahahah! I think I'd divorce a guy who didn't pick up on that one. Or at least be seriously depressed for a moment or two. Nice one.
20719. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:18:13 AM
Or actors' names, or forum monikers.
20720. AceofSpades - 6/14/2001 10:21:50 AM
I know most celebrities' names, and I consider that a fault. A decidedly un-masculine flaw.
A real man shouldn't know Meryl Streep's name. That fact that I know it is a constant source of pain to me.
20721. AceofSpades - 6/14/2001 10:23:14 AM
And Johnny Depp is a retard.
20722. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:24:12 AM
Ace probably has back copies of People Magazine wadded underneath his mattress.
20723. MsIvoryTower - 6/14/2001 10:29:13 AM
Depp is fabulous. I could watch him peel an orange and be happy.
Some other fabulous (as in great looking men who can also act) actors who immediately come to mind:
Sam Neill
Harrison Ford
Sean Connery
Sam Shepard
others ladies?
20724. milkmaid - 6/14/2001 10:35:57 AM
The afore-mentioned John Cusack. Okay, maybe not as studly, but brain cells turn me on.
20725. MsIvoryTower - 6/14/2001 10:42:13 AM
That's a definite yes on Cusack.
And I forgot Jeremy Irons.
20726. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:46:36 AM
I'm talkin' talent, not sex appeal like the Ms and CellarDoor searching that silver screen for a turn-on.
No, I don't think Meryl Streep "fabulous".
20727. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:47:43 AM
Jeremy Irons looks like he's got bad breath and suits needing dry cleaning.
20728. Jenerator - 6/14/2001 10:49:05 AM
My mom used to refer to Johnny Depp as her boyfriend, but he has since been replaced by a much, much better man...David Duchovny.
20729. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:49:13 AM
But, Jeremy Irons is very good acting as English gentry with psychological issues he's trying to deal with.
20730. Jenerator - 6/14/2001 10:50:53 AM
Jeremy Irons does indeed look dirty, but IMO, so does Willem Dafoe.
20731. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:52:31 AM
No, Defoe looks like he tortured small animals as a boy. His singular facial expression is baring and unbaring his teeth.
20732. MsIvoryTower - 6/14/2001 10:53:12 AM
Irons is not your typical beautiful male, that's true, but combined with the intelligence of his acting, he can be quite sexy.
20733. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 10:54:43 AM
Ms, your heart is an open book.
20734. MsIvoryTower - 6/14/2001 10:56:05 AM
hahahaha
Maybe.
20735. CalGal - 6/14/2001 11:00:43 AM
Sam Neill is very high on my list. Johnny Depp is beautiful, which is different. There was a great quote in the New York Times about him that I copied in a while back.
20736. Toenails - 6/14/2001 11:18:53 AM
I think Johnny Depp is trying, unsuccessfully, for James Dean. (But he doesn't fall all that short of his goal, in my view.)
Cusack's the best young actor going, but perhaps a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's had good luck on the parts he's gotten involved with. (Some of the other younger guys--for example, Whatshisface from Pearl Harbor, have made terrible choices of acting vehicles.)
20737. Toenails - 6/14/2001 11:23:15 AM
One of the most pleasant surprises I ever got in a movie was hearing Merle Streep sing at the end of "Postcards from the Edge." She was really good!
But I must be more masculine (even) than Ace, since I constantly confuse Merle with Whathername, the rabbit-cooking babe in the movie about Never Boff a Stranger.
20738. Jenerator - 6/14/2001 11:26:45 AM
I thought that Val Kilmer was *fine* in Batman, but I think it was in large part to wardrobe and make up.
Scott,
Th actor in My Left Foot (can't remember his name) always looks oily to me.
20739. Toenails - 6/14/2001 11:28:54 AM
Well, if you had to sit on the floor in a lower-class British rowhouse all the time, you'd be oily, too.
20740. Raskolnikov - 6/14/2001 11:31:53 AM
Scott:"A strong consensus of popular opinion does not good taste make as testifies these "best of" lists again and again so why use them?"
As I said, I think they are useful in presenting a list of films that a lot of people are quite likely to enjoy. To me, seeing The Godfather, Casablanca, Seven Samurai, The General, and Chinatown on almost every "best of" compilation list convinced me (as a young moviegoer) that I should probably watch them. Individual lists are too idiosyncratic for this purpose.
"They are an exercise in frustration. "Canonical films" number how many? Two dozen? Three?"
I would put it at a hundred or so. More, if you break it down into genres.
"Which by now most everybody's seen and has fixed an opinion (no, I don't like Battleship Potemkin; yes, Wizard of Oz is a great movie much, much better than the book)."
I think you vastly overestimate the number of people that have seen a film like Potemkin. I do agree that these lists aren't that useful for hard core film buffs, but I think they are useful for young people, or novices, who want to delve deeper into movies, and are looking for a place to start.
For instance, I was talking with several of my friends about the recent AFI list. Most had only seen 30-40 of the films (strongly skewed toward the 80s and 90s). For them, a list like this, that could potentially steer them toward Flynn's Robin Hood, or Night of the Hunter, could be useful.
Which is why it annoys me that it had so much clutter on it. I don't think the other two AFI lists were nearly as bad, and considered them rather accurate reflections of what the film "canon" was. Not so in this case.
20741. Raskolnikov - 6/14/2001 11:36:43 AM
Also, I am not merely objecting to the fact that I didn't like a lot of the films. I am not just saying that I didn't like the list. Instead, I am saying that it is a very inaccurate identification of canonical thrillers, horror and action films. For instance, while I don't like Vertigo much, I fully agree that it should be on the list.
20742. Toenails - 6/14/2001 11:51:44 AM
I've seen 68 of the 100. Did anyone else do a count?
20743. Raskolnikov - 6/14/2001 12:01:04 PM
97.
20744. Raskolnikov - 6/14/2001 12:02:05 PM
I haven't seen Picture of Dorian Gray, Phantom of the Opera, or Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. I can never find the first two, but I have no excuse for the last one. It just looks unpleasant.
20745. Raskolnikov - 6/14/2001 12:02:42 PM
I think I was 96 for 100 on the first AFI list, and 91 for 100 on the comedy list.
20746. Raskolnikov - 6/14/2001 12:05:42 PM
correction: 87 of 100 on the comedy list.
20747. Toenails - 6/14/2001 12:07:45 PM
Baby Jane just appeared (at the time of its release) as a means of exploiting two big-name-but-well-past-it actresses.
20748. CalGal - 6/14/2001 12:30:14 PM
One of the most pleasant surprises I ever got in a movie was hearing Merle Streep sing at the end of "Postcards from the Edge."
She sang twice in that movie--the Ray Charles song at the party, and the country song at the end. Both were great. Shirley's "I'm Still Here", the other number in the film, is the definitive rendition of that song, as far as I'm concerned.
The movie's only soso, but those three numbers are keepers.
20749. Toenails - 6/14/2001 12:34:19 PM
I liked the whole movie a lot. Carrie Fisher is a talented writer, and some of the dialogue in "Postcards" was, I thought, really far above the norm.
20750. CalGal - 6/14/2001 12:42:56 PM
Eh, there were some good oneliners, and it ended well. But I watch it for the music.
20751. ScottLoar - 6/14/2001 1:01:56 PM
I don't have the patience to count how many of the listed films I'd seen but Message # 20744 prompts me to note I have seen The Portrait of Dorian Gray, Phantom of the Opera, and Whatever Happened to Baby Jane (all were common to The Late Night Show in the early and mid-60's) which goes to prove how different we each are, and rightly so. These are all matters of opinion, and in my opinion of like and dislike I trust the collective opinion little if at all.
20752. Toenails - 6/14/2001 1:32:14 PM
Yes. I've said here before (probably too often) that occasionally movies that others regard as really, really bad have appealed to me, and continue to, however mawkish, badly performed, etc. they may actually be.
Among these are Grand Canyon, and Somewhere in Time, two films that got (at best) two reluctant stars from the typical critic.
Similarly, people who post here whose opinions I generally respect very frequently will sing the praises of some favorite of theirs that I regard as pure tripe.
Go figure.
20753. CalGal - 6/14/2001 1:34:33 PM
Oh, I wasn't dissing your variance from the canon, just saying what my opinion is. I don't hate it by any means.
If it's shameful confession time, I like "Guarding Tess".
20754. Toenails - 6/14/2001 1:40:24 PM
Cal: In the words of the old Black preacher,
"I don't think I'd have told that one."
20755. Toenails - 6/14/2001 1:47:42 PM
"Guarding Tess" reminds me that I saw Nicholas Cage the other day in a 1993 movie called "Deadfall" that should have been called "Dreadful" because it was (probably) worse than "Battlefield Earth".
Cage was screaming and overacting so incredibly that I had visions that someone must have been holding his wife and children and threatening their lives if he didn't go absolutely berzerk in this movie.
I always thought (still do) that Cage was a pretty good actor. What accounts for this anomaly?
20756. Cellar Door - 6/14/2001 8:56:09 PM
Drugs.
20757. DJ JOE INC - 6/15/2001 10:55:18 AM
A movie(I think it was probably made for HBO) that should make the thrillers list is Miracle Mile starring Anthony Edwards- the suspense is the ultimate cold war question- "on good authority I have heard that the Russkies have dropped the bomb- how do I react- Anthony Edwards has under an hour to make life and death desicions- the thing I love about the film is that you never know if the bomb is gonna drop or if it is some sort of crazy rumor run amok.
Just finished watching Tora Tora Tora- pretty cool film- still very turned off by the idea of a love story dominating the events of Dec. 7,1941- so I have yet to see Pearl Harbor.
While the Southern imbecile sterotypes that shape O Brother Where Art Thou can be a hinderance and I enjoyed George Clooney as the lawyer wannabe that can sing.I have enjoyed all 3 Clooney films that have centered around capers- Three Kings,Out of Sight and O Brother.He adds the right touch of criminal charisma to carry a caper film.
Ona totally different note- Something Wierd video is now relaesing DVD's-- the DVD's usually feature 2 classic B Movies and tons of extra's- I just picked up a Herschell Gordon Lewis set and another set featuring Monsters that kill Nudists-both are a lot of fun.
20758. CalGal - 6/15/2001 11:20:13 AM
I am a serious Clooney fan, and all three of the movies you mentioned made my top five list for that year.
I haven't seen Miracle Mile, although I've heard of it many times. The subject matter gets me stressed just reading about it.
Zulu was on AMC in letterbox again. If you haven't seen it, or haven't seen it in a while, look for it. Classic film. Every time I've run into it it has been 12 in the morning, but I imagine it must show up at civilized hours. I can't find a decent DVD of it, and for the life of me I can't figure out why.
20759. rubberducky - 6/15/2001 12:00:00 PM
Rask:
you should definitely see Whatever Happened to Baby Jane the two leads are fantastic and the movie itself is creepy and only a little dated.
worth a rental, though, no question.
20760. Zojak Quafeth - 6/15/2001 2:22:30 PM
OK, saw a sneak preview of Tomb Raider last night. Don't bother. The action scenes are fine, but there is little or no substance to it.
Angeline Jole walks or runs around in the entire movie with one eyebrow raised and an Elvis-like smirk on her face. It really is her only expression. No matter what's going on at the time.
Not only that, but I was told that Jolie was "augmented" from a C to a D through use a bra for the whole thing, so I knew that even through the bouncy running scenes that I was being defrauded.... Sheesh.
20761. CalGal - 6/15/2001 2:24:21 PM
Spawn is at the 11:30 showing right now. He knew I loathed Jolie and figured he had a better chance seeing it before I saw the reviews.
20762. sakonige - 6/15/2001 2:29:42 PM
One background note on that movie I thought was intriguing was that Angelina Jolie enjoyed working with her father John Voight in the movie, so much that at times she felt like crying. It made me want to see what they look like together.
20763. Raskolnikov - 6/15/2001 2:30:46 PM
Ducky: I know I need to see Baby Jane. My only excuse is that it looks unpleasant, and I flinch when I see the makeup on Davis' face. She looks worse than Mrs Bates in Psycho.
Cal: I keep missing Zulu. Netflix had it listed once as an upcoming release, but they pulled it. I figure the production deal must have fell through.
20764. CalGal - 6/15/2001 2:38:08 PM
Rask,
Yes, it was listed for release 12/31/00. But I can't find a decent version for sale or rent anywhere. AMC only shows the widescreen, and it is really first rate. You may want to check their site to see when it shows next.
On Baby Jane: it is rather spooky to realize that neither Crawford or Davis had attained the age of 50 yet. Women age a whole lot differently these days.
20765. CalGal - 6/15/2001 2:42:12 PM
Whoa, I'm thinking of a different movie. Sorry--both were over 50; I should look it up but I think Davis was 52 and Crawford in her mid-50s.
The point is the same, though, if you consider that Goldie Hawn is 56.
20766. Ms. No - 6/15/2001 2:55:35 PM
toenails,
Believe me, NOTHING is worse than Battlefield Earth.
DJ Joe,
Did you ever go back and rent Miracle Mile after seeing it in the theater? I would suggest holding fond memories of it but not revisiting it as it doesn't hold up well at all. I was terribly embarassed when I goaded some friends into renting it and we actually brought it home. It was not as I remembered.
The premise is excellent. There are some intriguing characters and situations. Additionally when I saw the film I actually worked in Miracle Mile so that was creepy as hell.
Unfortunately there are some horrible plot twists that rely solely on Mare Winningham's character thinking up the stupidest thing she could possibly do and then doing that.
20767. glendajean - 6/15/2001 2:59:20 PM
Wow, they were in their early 50s whey they made "Baby Jane?"
Hard living, I suppose.
20768. Ms. No - 6/15/2001 3:01:17 PM
More cigarettes, booze and sun exposure, less plastic surgery and fewer spa weekends.
I think it also doesn't hurt that 50 year old women are a more viable part of the world and work force these days.
Nobody really believes that a woman's life is over at 30 anymore.
20769. Ms. No - 6/15/2001 3:02:13 PM
IOW, the expectation to remain beautiful and sexy past the child-bearing years isn't a shock to anyone nowadays. Hell, the child-bearing years have been significantly increased.
20770. DJ JOE INC - 6/15/2001 3:15:44 PM
>The premise is excellent. There are some intriguing characters and situations.
I actually never saw the movie in the theater- I rented Miracle Mile and I loved it- I now own it on VHS- it does have some suspect acting and plot twists- but the premise hooked me.
20771. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 3:24:40 PM
Zulu was on AMC in letterbox again
I watched that...lord, Michael Caine was delicious in that one...
20772. Frankster - 6/15/2001 3:29:01 PM
Ms. No,
Believe me, NOTHING is worse than Battlefield Earth.
Oh, yeah ?! Did you see Lost in Space ?
Despite a semi all star cast, decent special effects, and a nostalgic segment of the baby boomer generation waiting to gobble it up, this movie was an extreme disappointment. What a dog. This thing had to potential to launch several follow-ups, and they blew it. What were these movie executives thinking when they let this bomb materialize as it did ?
The only thing that saved it for me was Mimi Rogers ( God, I'd love to come home to her ), and the original theme which closed with the credits.
20773. CalGal - 6/15/2001 3:29:55 PM
Yes, and it's still one of his best performances. Although he is so spectacularly beautiful he looks as if he's wearing makeup.
20774. Ms. No - 6/15/2001 3:30:12 PM
DJ Joe,
When I first saw it I had gone to the movies alone. When I left I went right to a friend's house and had an hysterical crying fit. Quite sophomoric and melodramatic of me, but real nonetheless.
SPOILER IN WHITE FONT
In the theater when the blast comes that's the end of the film. No outro, no credits, nothing. Just the white out of the blast and then a blank white screen. I don't know if it was done on purpose or if it was just a fortuitous coincidence but people were so stunned by it that no one got up to leave for a good two minutes. Nobody even spoke.
20775. CalGal - 6/15/2001 4:26:29 PM
Spawn reports from the theater: Tomb Raider sucks dead rat.
20776. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 4:29:34 PM
Crap.
20777. Raskolnikov - 6/15/2001 4:31:55 PM
Indy: you know you will see it anyway.
20778. paragate - 6/15/2001 4:35:18 PM
Enjoyed video last night: House of Mirth. Novel by Edith Wharton....terrific performance by Gillian Anderson(X files fame) in lead role. Very interesting look at turn of the century social class issues particularly as they relate to women in NYC.
20779. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2001 4:36:03 PM
Yes...but I was hoping it wouldn't be another The Shadow. One of my all-time disappointments.
20780. Raskolnikov - 6/15/2001 4:39:38 PM
The Shadow *was* a loser.
20781. Ms. No - 6/15/2001 4:42:08 PM
I've heard that the effects are quite good and if you like Jolie then you'll have a good time. It's short on plot and character development, but how much do you expect from a movie that is based on the life of a busty computer heroine who jumps around atheletically and shoots various things?
the room rolls it's eyes as Ms. No tries to psych herself up for Monday night's date which includes a viewing of Tomb Raider.
20782. DJ JOE INC - 6/15/2001 4:43:47 PM
Lost In Space was miserable-beyond camp redemption.
House of Mirth is a favorite- I also enjoyed Age of Innocence another Edith Wharton adaptation.House of Mirth is on my shortlist of movies to get on DVD.
20783. CalGal - 6/15/2001 4:48:06 PM
Spawn thought it was boring, and not like the video game at all. I didn't get many details. I believe he's in the target demographic--teenaged videogame junkie--and was surprised at his response, really.
20784. JudithAtHome - 6/15/2001 4:51:19 PM
You've corrupted his taste. :-)
20785. CalGal - 6/15/2001 4:54:56 PM
No, he is absolutely determined that won't happen. "I still want to enjoy 'my' stuff, Mom, so don't ruin it for me!"
20786. Toenails - 6/15/2001 5:16:40 PM
Maybe there will be true competition this year for the Ten Worse Movies List. We're certainly off to a fantastic start, and we haven't even considered the non-U.S. entries yet.
20787. CalGal - 6/15/2001 5:26:22 PM
On the upside, I've seen some really enjoyable movies this year, well more than average and certainly better than last year at this time.
Moulin Rouge
Shrek
Spy Kids
The Dish
Tailor of Panama
Memento
in roughly descending order of approval, have all been worth seeing (although Memento aggravated me no end).
20788. Ms. No - 6/15/2001 5:30:07 PM
Frank,
Battlefield Earth was worse. Much, much worse.
CG,
My grandmother and I were just talking about Memento the other day. She was hoping I could explain some things about it. I told her that she hadn't missed anything, but that the whole point was that you didn't have enough pieces to figure out the "truth". She said she suspected it might've been something like that but that she wanted to make sure it wasn't just senility.
For what it's worth, we both enjoyed Memento but were bugged as well.
20789. CalGal - 6/15/2001 5:35:31 PM
Did you read my rant about its flaws?
20790. Ms. No - 6/15/2001 5:40:33 PM
No, I didn't. Where is it?
20791. CalGal - 6/15/2001 5:48:51 PM
Christin,
Message # 19938 is my review and then see Message # 20044 for the spoiler on the problems.
20792. Ms. No - 6/15/2001 5:58:15 PM
Yes, all good points and I agree. What I can't figure out is why I liked the movie despite all of that. Weird, huh?
20793. CalGal - 6/15/2001 6:00:46 PM
I hated it, but then I figured out where it was going in the first 20 minutes or so. Pissed me off something fierce. And yet it could have been fascinating, had he thought it through a little better.
It reminds me a lot of Blair Witch Project.
20794. MsIvoryTower - 6/15/2001 6:56:52 PM
Atlantis
This is a somewhat different turn for Disney animated flicks of recent date: no singing, only one cute sidekick who's actually human, no animal creatures. In other words, just when you thought Disney had pushed their formula to the outer limits, they move on to new territory. All I can say is "thank goodness".
The characters in Atlantis are good, darker without being over the top, more like the old DC Comics characters, and drawn more starkly as well. The story has more of a sci-fi feel to it, and some of the later scenes are thrilling.
This is a cool film, different then Shrek, but equally as entertaining, imaginative and graphically interesting.
20795. CalGal - 6/17/2001 10:40:14 AM
Cellar,
I was driving through SF and came by the Gay and Lesbian Film Festival--looked for you to wave hi! (g)
The African American film festival--used to be Juneteenth, or something--is this week, too. Have you checked it out?
20796. Cellar Door - 6/17/2001 10:46:01 AM
I'll be in SF this coming Friday-Sunday.
20797. CalGal - 6/17/2001 10:51:08 AM
Well, I just made a post but it disappeared.
Good thing I didn't see you, then! Have you heard of the Juneteenth festival up here? I was watching the Northern California talking heads show and both festivals were mentioned.
20798. DJ JOE INC - 6/17/2001 11:09:09 AM
Just rented Jesus's Son- good little film- starring Billy Crudup as a drifter and featuring cameos by Dennis Hopper,Jack Black and Dennis Leary.If you enjoy black comedy with a little pathos then you should check out Jesus's Son.
20799. MsIvoryTower - 6/18/2001 9:23:22 AM
Okay, I saw Tomb Raider this weekend, and although it's not got the excitement of a Speilberg Indiana Jones film, it wasn't bad.
I was trying to figure out what was missing in the film because Jolie was very good as Croft, the other leads were also good in their characters, so it wasn't that. There were also some great action scenes in the tombs, and the visuals were excellent. But there was definitely something missing in this film.
I think it was the story itself: it was less than inspiring. Comparing it to an Indiana Jones film is helpful. In both the first and third films (the two best ones), the ultimate enemy was the Nazi's, something we could all clearly see was evil, and had to be stopped. In Tomb Raiders the enemy was some hidden society (that we don't ever learn enough about) and their goal was to control something equally esoteric (I won't spoil it for you). So the enemy and the quest remained somewhat remote, something we couldn't really get behind, and it ruined the excitement of the film, I think.
Had the scriptwriters come up with a better story, I think the film would have been great, it had all the other elements of a great action film, but it lacked heart.
However, I wasn't bored, and didn't consider it a waste of money or two-hours. Some might want to wait for the video, though, I expect if you have one of those big screen TV's the video experience will be just as good.
20800. Dusty - 6/18/2001 9:30:54 AM
MsIT
My apologies for this interruption, but Politics has an economic discussion in progress. I think you (sensibly) tend to avoid that thread, but I thought you'd be interested.
20801. rubberducky - 6/18/2001 10:50:46 AM
Rental Queue Update:
Rented Miss Congeniality and found it to be a somewhat amusing piece of fluff. Bullock plays a no nonsense gal in the FBI is a screw up and needs a chance to redeem herself. most surprisingly, she was hesitant to join a beauty pageant to catch some ill-defined killer, if you can believe that.
of course, things work out in the end, and Bullock saves the day. the best thing about this was the parts played by William Shatner & Candice Bergen (CBS's Murphy Brown). worst part had to be Benjamin Bratt trying to be sexy. you know when a man can't look good in a gratuitous pool shot, something is wrong - he proves that.
anyway, it was a nice diversion. 2 ½ quacks of 5.
20802. rubberducky - 6/18/2001 10:51:18 AM
Disney's The Emperor's New Groove was a fun movie to watch. i had boycotted all Disney flicks since the unwatchable Hercules, but Ripley wanted to see it.
a few genuine laughs to be found here if you like David Spade's brand of dry, biting humor. he fit the part of an uncaring Pharaoh, Kuzco, turned into a llama by his power hungry advisor Yzma, played by the fabulous Eartha Kitt. Patrick Warburton (Putty from Seinfeld) was great as her idiot sidekick.
loved the fact that there was one song by Spade and a couple by Tom Jones.
this is a funny cartoon that somewhat redeems Disney in my opinion. worth a rental.
3 out of 5 quacks.
20803. rubberducky - 6/18/2001 10:51:34 AM
also took in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and was underwhelmed. too much hype for a movie that looks like a cleaner version of the old dubbed martial action movies i watched on my local UHF station as a kid.
not that i didn't enjoy it, but christ, what a bunch of fantasy laden hooey. the fight scenes (which there were waaaaaay too few of) were fantastic when someone wasn't knocked the length of a football field only to easily fly up and away with nary a bruise.
no one had a bruise.
not one.
i scarcely remember a cut.
after days of fighting.
as i said, too much for too little plot and 'characterization'. i think if i had seen it when it came out and before the hype machine, i'd like it better - as it is, i was a little disappointed.
3½ quacks of 5.
20804. Jamie R - 6/18/2001 11:13:34 PM
Just saw Tomb Raider. It was certainly not bad in the way (say) Godzilla or Twister were bad, but I was surprised by how little the movie effected me. Call me simple, but smart gorgeous women kicking ass in slo-mo really works for me. That's an easy sell. I've seen The Long Kiss Goodnight umpteen times. But this movie left me mostly bored.
Part of the problem was the direction, which was pure MTV. It's very hard to be thrilled by an action sequence when you cannot tell what the hell is going on. In the first big sequence I got bored and started timing the length of the shots. I never got to even two seconds. Can we have an establishing shot please?
Also the characters seemed too cool for their own fantasy world. The wonder of it all never seemed to really register for them. There's one scene (no spoilers) where something wildly improbable happens, something utterly inexplicable by any of the known laws of physics, and without even pausing to register a "now that doesn't happen every day" Croft grabs a weapon and starts whacking away. Maybe she's as bored with CGI as I am.
20805. Jamie R - 6/18/2001 11:17:10 PM
I'm also not sure I agree that Jolie is so perfectly cast for the part. She's great fun to watch when she's being physical, and she has an amazingly expressive face when it's actually expressing. But the role requires her to spend most of her time in cool expressionless mode and that is not good for her. When Clint Eastwood does the cold stare of death I understand that there's barely restrained mayhem in the offing. When Angelina Jolie tried for the same thing I was honestly just thinking "my god, those are some big lips."
Nonetheless, on the very rare occasion when she was permitted a lifted eyebrow or half a smile, or heavens a laugh, she was immensely charming. I've resolved to try and catch her in something not involving Winona Ryder. Maybe my video store has Gia.
Oh, and I hope there's a special place in hell for these writers who feel the need to give every female hero a daddy-complex. Blech.
20806. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:17:15 PM
It is making a gazillion magillion dollars, though.
I can just visualize that scene--don't know what it is or what happens, but I can see Jolie's limited reaction range as she just grabs a weapon and starts whacking. I'm sure she is bored, too.
But with Shrek out, why go to Tombraider?
20807. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:19:35 PM
Call me simple, but smart gorgeous women kicking ass in slo-mo really works for me.
Oh. Never mind.
But even with the looks, I'm amazed more people don't get the blahs just looking at her. Surely there are enough gorgeous bimbos around that a distinctly creepy version wouldn't get much work?
20808. Jamie R - 6/18/2001 11:42:17 PM
I've seen Shrek, and I thought it was great. But I'll probably wait to see it again.
I saw Tomb Raider because it's been a long time since I spent a summer seeing goofy event movies in the theater, something I used to love doing. Problem is event movies have gotten much worse, or I've gotten much more jaded. Either way they tend to bore me. But I thought this summer I'd take a chance on more of them.
And I can't decide if she's creepy. She's very odd looking, for sure. And (IRL) she seems genuinely unbalanced. Maybe even nuts. But as I said, she's very expressive. I'm curious now as to whether she can really act.
20809. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:48:22 PM
Event movies definitely have gotten much worse. The only recent year that has really delivered on good summer movies is 1999, I think, with Phantom Menace, Notting Hill, Tarzan, Austin Powers, Blair Witch Project, Sixth Sense, Dick, The Muse, Happy Texas, The Limey, Bowfinger, and I'm sure I'm missing quite a few.
This has been a decent year; as I mentioned earlier I certainly think it's better than last year at this time. But the big event movies have often been a letdown.
Have you seen Moulin Rouge? I loved it, but it is definitely a polarizer, so I can't be confident in a recommendation.
20810. Jamie R - 6/18/2001 11:49:39 PM
Surely there are enough gorgeous bimbos around
No, no. Notice smart came before gorgeous. (Although obviously in action movies intelligence is more often implied by general poise and omnicompetence than shown directly.) Bimbos are movie killers (comedies sometimes but not often excepted.)
20811. Jamie R - 6/18/2001 11:51:28 PM
I think I'm going to see Moulin Rouge. I can't even guess if I'll like it, but there's a potential that I'll really love it. I'm willing to chance really hating it.
20812. CalGal - 6/18/2001 11:52:36 PM
But we are talking about Angelina Jolie. "Smart" just isn't the word I'd use to describe someone who doesn't have enough sense to hide her open lust for her brother. Bleah.
20813. Jamie R - 6/18/2001 11:56:28 PM
Ha. How about "quirky"?
I don't remember when I saw her in an interview- it was before the whole brother love thing. She definitely seemed a little, um, off even then.
20814. MsIvoryTower - 6/18/2001 11:58:24 PM
Sorry Jamie R, I disagree with your take on Tomb Raider. I didn't find the movie boring so much as lacking heart and passion.
Given that the characters came from a video game, they were better then I expected. I also think Jolie was great in the role, even when she wasn't expressive. The problem was with the script, when the characters were being cool and calculating, they were being cool and calculating about something hard to be passionate about to begin with. Hence, not only Jolie, but her nemesis, played by Iian something, also came across as rather passionless and dead.
I think Jolie did a fine job portraying Croft as very intelligent and capable given the limited resources she had to work with. If there is one thing Croft is, it's dangerous and smart first, and sexy second. Jolie managed to convey this.
20815. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 12:01:32 AM
Actually, the movie suffered from some of the same problems that The Phantom Menace suffered from. I think I enjoyed the latter slightly more, but that may have been because I was working from an established history for the story, and was able to interject more into the film then may have been there.
20816. CalGal - 6/19/2001 12:03:15 AM
A quiz, to keep in mind as context when you see Moulin Rouge:
Which of the following movie musicals used songs anywhere from 5 to 25 years old, rather than foot the bill for original music?
a) Singin' in the Rain
b) The Band Wagon
c) American in Paris
d) Easter Parade
e) Moulin Rouge
20817. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 12:07:15 AM
Actually, I'm very iffy about seeing Moulin Rouge because of the out-of-context-and-time musical score. What I've seen of the movie clips on the music video channels has been less then inspiring.
20818. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 12:10:25 AM
Actually, I'm very iffy about seeing Moulin Rouge because of the out-of-context-and-time musical score. What I've seen of the movie clips on the music video channels has been less then inspiring.
20819. Jamie R - 6/19/2001 12:10:55 AM
Sorry Jamie R, I disagree with your take on Tomb Raider.
And you think a simple apology is sufficient? This is totally unacceptable.
Actually, I agree completely with your assessment of the plot and the general lack of passion, suspense, drama, etc.. But there are lots of movies that are in essence "good guys bad guys fighting over who knows what." Those movies work regardless of the particular what if you fall for the characters. But rather than give Croft a distinctive character they went for a rather generic action movie cool.
Which is fine if the person has the right look and gravitas for it. (Think Chow Yun Fat.) This is where I found her looks really distracting.
That aside, if you're going to do generic action movie then the suspense has to come from the sense of the physical danger involved (since it doesn't come from caring about the outcome.) Tom Cruise hanging by one hand in MI2 worked. These action scenes were badly shot for that purpose. I rarely knew what the hell was going on. They worked okay as music video footage.
20820. Jamie R - 6/19/2001 12:15:21 AM
Calgal, if I may lower myself a few notches further in your esteem tonight, I'll have to confess to being fairly ignorant of musicals in general, movie or stage. I'm pretty sure I've seen Singing in the Rain (if that's the right one I thought it was wonderful) but don't recognize the others.
But I will draw on my finally honed SAT skills and guess "all of the above."
20821. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 12:16:53 AM
Well, the only scene that I found somewhat confusing was the opening one, with the robot. I'd say that was a bad choice for an opening though, because it did set an odd tone.
The scene in the Tai temple was cool and pretty straightforward, I thought, as was the one at the Pole (I have no idea which one it was supposed to be). If there was confusion, it came from the poor setups to the action in the script.
The movie played like the video game. Not a lot of transition from one dangerous situation to another, and precious little explanation about why we should even care about Croft's quest.
20822. CalGal - 6/19/2001 12:17:59 AM
There are reasons to object to Moulin Rouge, but quite a few musicals use out of context and time musical scores. Camelot, Brigadoon, My Fair Lady, Hello Dolly, The Pirate, DuBarry was a Lady, every Ethel Merman musical ever made...the list goes on.
20823. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 12:18:49 AM
But I agree that the sense of danger from the action scenes was missing, also due to poor writing, I think. I mean, we simply didn't much care about these people, or the quest. And while I liked the Croft character, I couldn't work up much concern for her, either. Again, I place this flaw in the hands of the writers.
20824. CalGal - 6/19/2001 12:19:16 AM
I'll have to confess to being fairly ignorant of musicals in general,
Heavens. That's almost as bad as thinking Jolie is hot.
Well, I just gave you an excellent list to start with.
20825. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 12:20:42 AM
Cal
I agree that, in theory, out of context and time songs don't necessarily ruin a movie, but taking pop culture music and interjecting it into a time piece is jarring.
20826. Jamie R - 6/19/2001 12:26:22 AM
The one thing in the movie I really liked was a scene at the very end where Croft's making her escape from Certain Death. Just as I'm thinking her particular means of egress looks like it must be a lot of fun, Croft starts laughing. Although she is clearly in horrible danger, she is in fact having a lot of fun. It was a very unforced thing and it worked (and I hadn't already seen it a million times.) If they had taken the character farther in that direction I think the movie would have worked better for me.
20827. Jamie R - 6/19/2001 12:29:42 AM
Hm, in that vein, I guess the bungie cord sequence worked well too. That also looked like real fun. (Not the action part- that action part confused me as badly as the opening sequence.)
20828. CalGal - 6/19/2001 12:30:46 AM
Jamie--actually, I forgot that American in Paris was on the list. Scratch that. But the rest are good.
Ms,
All the movies in my pop quiz above used pop culture music of their day. The songs in Brigadoon and My Fair Lady had become standards by the time the film versions came out, so must have seemed exactly like pop culture music in period pieces.
As I said, I'm not trying to argue into liking it. But Moulin Rouge is far more in keeping with the Hollywood musical of the 50s than any musical made in 40 years.
Some people thought the cutting excessive; while this sort of thing can bother me, I thought it was actually kept well under control. I would warn people who go for the dancing that it is a singing musical, so keep your expectations in check.
20829. Jamie R - 6/19/2001 12:32:43 AM
Well, it's getting past my bedtime. Goodnight, all.
20830. CalGal - 6/19/2001 12:36:31 AM
Night, Jamie. Start with Singin In the Rain, because if you can't remember it well, you need to see it again. The most quotable musical ever, and not too shabbily ranked on the most quotable movies ever.
20831. Shannon - 6/19/2001 1:18:43 AM
I confess I share in Jamie's ignorance of musicals. And in general, I don't much care for them. Hubby loves them.
20832. CalGal - 6/19/2001 1:35:43 AM
I really need to get Mote Movies updated; there's a great conversation about musicals on there.
If you watch no other musical, go with Singin' in the Rain, and do a few chores during the Broadway Melody number. The kids will love it, too.
Spawn wore out our version of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers; after some 9000 viewings I finally had to bribe him to switch his affections to West Side Story (look, it's got Gideon in it!). Singin in the Rain is wonderful for the entire family, as is The Band Wagon.
Hey. Now that I think of it, if you just see the four musicals I mention in the above paragraph, you will have all the reference points you need. That's three of the finest original Hollywood musicals and arguably the best stage to screen translation. If you like any of those, you will know what to check out next. If you can't stand any of them, then the genre probably isn't for you.
I don't think Hollywood musicals are given enough consideration by parents as great entertainments for kids. Don't know why, really, since they all love the Disney musicals.
20833. Shannon - 6/19/2001 1:40:37 AM
Yeah, the kids would probably like them. I've always told Mike that I just can't suspend my disbelief enough--people just don't break into song. And every time our kids do that, he comments on it now.
20834. CalGal - 6/19/2001 2:04:37 AM
hahahahaha. That'll show you.
I think the problem is that you really shouldn't believe in musicals to start with. Then you won't have anything to suspend--and if something does grab you emotionally by surprise (the ending of West Side Story, for example), so much the better.
The reason to watch musicals is for the joy of the performers, who in the best musicals are working their asses off and having a ball.
There's this one so-so musical called Royal Wedding, known as the one where Fred Dances On The Ceiling, but that's an ordinary number. The best dance in the movie, and one of my favorite ever, is How Could You Believe Me When I Said I Loved You When You Know I've Been A Liar All My Life? (Clearly, some people are better at suspending disbelief than, say, you.)
Anyway, it's a comic song, stylized, funny in an overemphatic way. But the dance break in the middle is absolutely terrific--lots of footwork and all done in a very fast tap. Now, Jane Powell is not a real dancer, although all the ingenues had to have a basic ability to learn ordinary stuff. But this was quite difficult and, to top it off, she had to do the whole break with a very blase, bored, too cool for school expression on her face--while dancing at a breakneck speed some tough steps.
So at the end of one really tough section, where you can see (on rewatching) that it's all downhill after that, she breaks character with this huge grin--you get the impression that they'd practiced this some 50,000 times and she knew that this was it, she'd nailed it--and Fred goes "Hey!", which all his costars cite as the ultimate praise that they lived for, his spontaneous compliment.
That glee may not always be literally expressed, but all the best and many of the average Hollywood musicals of the 40s and 50s have that fundamental happiness at their core. You know, like the mouse said, "Look at me, I'm dancing!"
20835. CalGal - 6/19/2001 2:05:08 AM
(of course, if you don't know about musicals, you totally missed the reference. Sigh.)
20836. Shannon - 6/19/2001 2:09:28 AM
Well, I did miss the reference. But you made me laugh with: Clearly, some people are better at suspending disbelief than, say, you.
20837. CalGal - 6/19/2001 2:15:52 AM
Well, as I was writing out the title I was laughing at the coincidence.
The reference: Gene Kelly, in Anchors Aweigh, danced with Jerry (of Tom n Jerry). If it wasn't the first time ever that live action combined with cartoon, I believe it was the first outside of Disney. It's also a nifty little dance.
Mickey Mouse had been asked to make a guest appearance, but Walt Disney refused to let his greatest star slum in an MGM picture.
20838. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 6:16:10 PM
All the movies in my pop quiz above used pop culture music of their day. The songs in Brigadoon and My Fair Lady had become standards by the time the film versions came out, so must have seemed exactly like pop culture music in period pieces.
I don't know what films you included in your pop quiz, but most of the musicals I know of had original scores, either as films or from the plays. Granted that the music may have become familiar to the public out of context of the play or film, but the music itself was written with the story (play, film) in mind.
My understanding of Moulin Rouge is that it grabbed pop chart hits and incorporated them into the film. To me, this is a different beast from the musicals of the 40's and 50's, and brings a much greater commercial exploitation element to it then those others.
However, if I'm wrong, I'd like to know what musicals of the past took pop chart songs and used them as opposed to creating pop chart hits.
20839. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 6:20:17 PM
And, I should qualify my comments further: I'm not talking about one song taken from the pop charts and folded into a movie musical, I'm talking about an entire score (or almost the entire score) being taken from the pop charts.
I've heard raves about the movie, btw, but I can't get past the quick and dirty musical score, and the fact that I'm supposed to get behind Nicole Kidman (whose acting I've decided sucks) and MacGregor singing their way around turn-of-the-century Paris. Maybe it's just the fact that Kidman plays the lead that bothers me the most.
20840. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 6:24:18 PM
Jamie R
I agree the unexpected joy on Jolie's face while dog sleding away from the exploding cave was a real treat, as was her total exhilaration while bungie jumping. But then, I thought she was great in the film, so I enjoyed a lot of her scenes.
20841. Raskolnikov - 6/19/2001 6:31:23 PM
The dance on the ceiling number is ordinary? Talk about heresy. Royal Wedding itself is nothing special, but the ceiling number is well worth the price of admission.
The "how could you believe me" number falls apart simply because Astaire is trying to play a tough guy.
20842. CalGal - 6/19/2001 6:38:52 PM
Ms,
In the case of Hollywood musicals, I listed several: Singin in the Rain, The Bandwagon, Easter Parade, American in Paris. All of them used well-known songs that had been recorded prior to their use in the movie.
"Our Love is Here to Stay", for example, charted for the first time in the 30s--and I know that Nat King Cole made it a hit before the movie came out. "I Guess I'll Have to Change My Plan" was a Rudy Vallee hit some 20 years before The Band Wagon came out. Singin in the Rain was used in several movies, and Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney (among others) first sang "Good Morning" in an Andy Hardy movie (and I believe it charted at least once). "You Were Meant for Me" was another classic long before Singin' came out. The movie Easter Parade was titled as such in order to take advantage of the big hit the song had been the year before.
Many, if not most, of the major Hollywood musicals (as opposed to the ones that came out immediately after Broadway hits) were original stories using well known pop songs of the past 20 years.
20843. CalGal - 6/19/2001 6:40:27 PM
Talk about heresy.
It's not heresy at all, actually. It's not even that unusual an opinion.
Well, of course Fred isn't a tough guy. The scripted dialog there is just silly. But the song is cute and the dancing is the best in the film.
20844. CalGal - 6/19/2001 6:46:06 PM
In case I'm not clear:
My understanding of Moulin Rouge is that it grabbed pop chart hits and incorporated them into the film. To me, this is a different beast from the musicals of the 40's and 50's, and brings a much greater commercial exploitation element to it then those others.
It is exactly the same beast, and many of the finest Hollywood musicals of the 40s and 50s did just that.
What's really ironic is that in at least one case I can think of where original music was used, it was used in a stage to screen conversion. In On the Town, most of the original Broadway score was dumped and new tunes were written--none of them classics, either.
20845. Ms. No - 6/19/2001 6:59:39 PM
MsIT,
Re: Moulin Rouge
The modern music wasn't chosen because they were being lazy about scoring the film. The songs are specifically chosen for their meanings and to underline the themes of the film. Lurhmann could certainly have had original works produced, but it would have been an entirely different film. Music is one of the most widely shared ways in which modern man expresses his ideas about love----most people don't read poetry anymore but everyone listens to music. Lurhmann had something to say about pop music and the way we experience it and what it means to our lives and he managed to say that in symbiotic way with the theme of his film.
I think maybe the more we talk about this the more resistance you're going to develop to seeing Moulin Rouge. I certainly don't want to badger you about it, but the film grows out of the music as much as the music is chosen to support the film. It provides a lot of "in" jokes and points to very specific ideas. You can hate the film or the music, but don't talk yourself out of seeing the film just because you suspect someone was being lazy.
20846. christipeters - 6/19/2001 7:14:19 PM
I loved Royal Wedding.
Heck, I just plain love musicals.
I think I'll go see Moulin Rouge
20847. christipeters - 6/19/2001 7:14:51 PM
that is Royal Wedding
20848. christipeters - 6/19/2001 7:15:16 PM
(consistency consistency, hogoblins everywhere)
20849. CalGal - 6/19/2001 7:18:02 PM
Well, I did say it was a so-so musical. It's certainly not terrible, but the love interest is disastrously awful. Powell and Astaire work better together than one would have thought. You do know it is roughly (very roughly) based on Fred and Adele Astaire? She fell in love with an English lord of some sort, I think.
MsNo,
I take it you're a bit over the moon over Moulin Rouge, too?
20850. MsIvoryTower - 6/19/2001 7:55:21 PM
Okay, I guess other musicals used pop hits of their time. Fortunately, however, I was not born then, so the music and films have always gone together in my mind. So I'm not used to thinking about musicals that steal from the pop charts for their scores.
MsNo
It could simply be resistance to the leads, and the thought of them singing through Paris. I may give the film a try, but from the beginning of the press releases, I've had a lukewarm feeling about the movie.
Rask is right, the dance on the ceiling is one of the more memorable things about the rather mediocre Royal Wedding. Oh, yes, and I think in this film there was the dance with the coat rack as well, which was spectacular. On the boat over? Maybe it was in another one of his.
20851. joezan - 6/19/2001 9:14:18 PM
A few weeks ago I received a letter at work from some outfit claiming to offer licensing services to organizations that present copyrighted movies to groups of people.
The gist of the letter was, It has come to our attention that your facility has for some time been presenting copyrighted movies to "inmates"... most people are just as ignorant of the laws regulating public showing of movies on tape, disk, whatever, as you are, joezan. You may be under the impression that just because yours is a correctional facility and you don't charge, that you are not subject to these laws. Nothing could be further from the truth. But if you pay us a fee (which amount we're not gonna let on till we've got you good and scared), we'll make sure that everything is cool. We'll get you the proper licenses, etc....
I chuckled at the audacity, but let the county's risk management guy know about it. He advised that I ignore the letter, as well as any subsequent correspondence.
Needless to say, I received another letter, last week. This one was a bit more ominous and included for my enlightenment some examples of payouts other "correctional facilities" have had to pay under similar circumstances. I passed that one on, too.
Then today I got an even more ominous message on my voice mail, which hinted that further action would be taken if I did not respond ASAP.
Anyone ever heard of anything like this, or of a company named (I swear) "Swank" something-or-another - "...Enterprises", maybe?
20852. joezan - 6/19/2001 9:41:37 PM
Ahhhh...so this is what it's about. Bastards...
20853. CalGal - 6/19/2001 9:45:36 PM
I don't see the connection; what am I missing?
20854. joezan - 6/19/2001 9:54:47 PM
In their correspondences, they present themselves as "representatives of major motion picture studios" - iow, you are left thinking that it is these "major motion picture studios" you will be messing with if you don't sign up with Swank.
Moreover, none of their correspondence mentioned the fact that they just happen to rent movies to institutions such as mine.
I think I'm gonna string 'em along awhile - let them think I'm scared.
20855. CalGal - 6/19/2001 10:01:34 PM
Oh! I hadn't seen the fact that they rent. I was picking up on the "edited" bit.
20856. joezan - 6/19/2001 10:11:31 PM
The other thing is how they got my name.
We used to have a deal with a local video rental place. But that went out of business when Blockbuster moved in. BB was too expensive to rent from, so we decided to go with a movie library bought from BB's pre-viewed rack (which really was perfect for our needs). I initially bought about $600 worth on my county charge account, and have gone back a couple of times since for probably the same amount.
So, they had to have gotten the info from Blockbuster.
Sweet, huh?
20857. Ms. No - 6/19/2001 11:14:41 PM
Joezan,
I'd report them to the Better Business Bureau. Extorting business with thinly veiled threats is probably a bit of a no-no in somebody's book somewhere.
Marketing ploys like that really piss me off.
We've been getting a lot of them lately through the mail that look like Invoices and claim to be past due or owing even though you've never purchased the product/service. If you turn it over you find out that actually paying the thing is acceptance of their sales contract.
20858. joezan - 6/19/2001 11:20:51 PM
MsNO:
I have emailed the risk management guy that website's url.
I'm sure that's the first thing he'll do if they continue with the threats.
20859. Cellar Door - 6/20/2001 9:50:17 AM
Andrew Sarris REALLY likes "A.I."
20860. glendajean - 6/20/2001 10:50:14 AM
From Cellar's link:
All I can say is that I like and admire A.I. enormously despite the fact that I have never been unduly reverent toward either Mr. Spielberg or Kubrick, and I have never particularly liked or enjoyed science fiction even at its best. That is what surprises me about A.I.: It is so good it has made me abandon my most cherished prejudices.
20861. MaxMacks - 6/21/2001 6:46:31 PM
Anybody remember movie THE HUSTLER
with Paul Newman ,
Did Jackie Gleason play the part of the real
Minnesota Fats....(champion pool player)?
20862. AceofSpades - 6/21/2001 7:47:14 PM
The Detroit News
January 19, 1996
Minnesota Fats finally tells 'St. Peter to rack 'em up'
By Jim Patterson / Associated Press
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Minnesota Fats, the pool shark who blustered his way out of smoky barrooms to become the most famous player ever to pick up a cue stick, died Thursday.
Fats died of congestive heart failure.
His wife, Theresa Bell Wanderone, said simply, "He was the world's greatest. Now he's finally in heaven shooting it out again with (Willie) Mosconi."
Mosconi, Minnesota Fats' legendary rival, died in 1993 at age 80.
Theresa Wanderone said she had his epitaph ready: "Beat everybody living on Earth. Now, St. Peter, rack 'em up."
Various accounts have listed Fats as anywhere from 82 to 95 years old, but as he boasted in a 1988 interview, "No one on this Earth knows how old I am."
Born Rudolf Wanderone Jr., he was known as New York Fats early in his career.
Jackie Gleason's character in the 1961 Paul Newman movie The Hustler, based on Wanderone, was called Minnesota Fats. So Wanderone started calling himself Minnesota Fats, and his fame and fortune began to rise.
Although he borrowed the name of Gleason's character, Wanderone said in the 1988 interview that the original movie "didn't mean nothin' to me."
"I'm known clean around the Earth," he said. "It meant something to Gleason and them people. Gleason used to rack balls for me when he was a kid in Brooklyn and in Long Island."
He didn't think much of Newman's pool skills.
"Paul Newman is not a very good pool player. But he can make it look good. Now Gleason can play. Gleason can hustle. He could play pool for a living and make a living because he's plenty smart."
20863. AceofSpades - 6/21/2001 7:52:26 PM
I always wondered that myself. I guess I heard the answer before but forgot it, because I had a vague notion that the "Minnesota Fats" character WAS based on Minnesota Fats, but that Minnesota Fats wasn't called Minnesota Fats until after the movie.
Anyway, that was a two second search on Google, and it was the first hit that popped up.
20864. AceofSpades - 6/21/2001 8:03:14 PM
Half Assed Reviews:
Billy Elliot: This movie is worth watching. It's hardly the revelation the critics claimed it to be; critics seem to go positively ga-ga over any gay movie. I wonder why...?
But the film is pretty good. I've got some quibbles, but it was fun. The film has a very strong sense of place and time (some depressed Third World-esque British mining town under Thatcher) and the family stuff is all very compelling.
The Ninth Gate: Another movie that swipes the whole idea behind the "Cthulhu" stories. Or behind the Cthulhu role-playing game. Take your pick.
I only half-watched this movie, but, from what I saw, it wasn't too bad. The plot has Johnny Depp tracking down three copies of a Satanic text, some or all of which might be forgeries. It turns out that ALL of the copies are forgeries too some degree-- but that parts of the REAL Satanic text -- coauthored by the Prince of Darkness himself -- are included in each of the three forgeries; find the real parts of each and put them together and... well, nothing good, one imagines.
I really liked the book-detective-work in this film. Without explaining the details, I'll just say that it's creepy and cool watching Depp figure out which elements of the texts are the real Satanic manifesto.
20865. AceofSpades - 6/21/2001 8:09:52 PM
What Planet are You From?: Gary Shandling is an Alien named HG99J-6 (or something) from a planet of men without sex organs... and he's come to Earth to pick up chicks.
Constant giggles in this one. The first half of the film is much funnier than the latter half -- Shandling's rapid-fire-and-inept pick-up lines are very funny (to every woman he meets: "Your footwear is very stylish... Would you like to have sex?") -- but the movie never quite runs out of steam. It threatens to run out of steam, but never quite does. Recommended.
20866. AceofSpades - 6/21/2001 8:17:20 PM
Slap Shot: Yeah, this is the OLD (1977) Paul Newman hockey movie. I rented it because it's new on DVD.
Still a great film. What surprised me, watching it again, is how little actual hockey is in the film. You probably remember from this movie are the Hanson brothers and you THINK the movie is half about them. In fact, they're barely in it in terms of screen time (of course, when they're there, they make an impact).
Most of the film is a darkly realistic and cynical look of male-female relationships. Hockey only occasionally intrudes. But it's still a great movie.
Note: I was surprised to find that a woman wrote this movie. The foulest, most violent sports movie ever made... written by a woman. Who knew?
Small Time Crooks: Just-barely-worth-watching Woody Allen schlock exploring his typical themes of infedility, temptation, reconcilliation, and recyclying the same Gerswhin-dominated soundtrack he's used on the last fifty movies.
You expect a movie about crime. SPOILERS IN WHITE
It isn't. The first ten minutes are about a bank robbery; then all of a sudden Allen and his wife become mega-millionaires through a subplot. The rest of the film isn't about crime, but about the couple's differing attitudes towards their newfound wealth: She (predictably) wants to become a cultured "patron of the arts"; he (predictably) wants to remain a working-class schlub and drink beer from the bottle and watch the Knicks.
Overall, a pretty lame effort. It has a very first-draft, "oh let's just shoot what we've written so far" feel. It's not terrible, it's not actually offensive; it's just lame and forgettable as an episode of Blossom.
20867. AceofSpades - 6/21/2001 8:22:21 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention the time-warp factor of Slap Shot.
1) they use the word "faggit" like they're being paid $10.00 per mention.
2) The clothes... the clothes! Every woman wears camel-toe stretch pants; every dude wears tight stretch pants too, plus big-ass Pimpin' high-heeled shoes and leather coats with fur collars.
3) The song! Everytime the team goes on a road trip, they play the disco-era sing-along "Get Right Back where We Started From" (I think; I can't remember the song now).
What a time-trip. From the conventions of film-making ("tough," dark material) to the clothes... man, it's like looking back on ancient Athens.
20868. ScottLoar - 6/21/2001 10:14:50 PM
Message # 20862, I remember Minnesota Fats on the Tonight Show shooting pool and asked by Carson how many trophies he'd won.
"Trophies? If I need a trophy I'll buy one."
20869. MaxMacks - 6/22/2001 1:05:58 AM
Hey Ace, you sure did answer my question.!
I dont have VCR . so I just have to depend on my memories ; so really appreciated your fulsome
answers/posts/replies.
20870. rubberducky - 6/22/2001 12:59:43 PM
while not a bomb, Pearl Harbor was certainly overrated
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The stars weren't famous enough. The running time was too long. The hype too great. The reviews devastating.
There are many explanations offered for why Disney's "Pearl Harbor" has fallen short of expectations since its star-spangled premiere on the deck of a Navy aircraft carrier a month ago.
...
Nobody's saying "Pearl Harbor" is a box-office bomb. But when a film costs $140 million to make, and almost as much to market worldwide, expectations do run high.
...
It looks like Disney's most successful live-action film will remain the 1999 supernatural thriller "The Sixth Sense," which earned $660 million worldwide.
"Pearl Harbor" opened with $75.1 million, putting it behind 1997's "The Lost World" ($92.7 million) as the second best Memorial Day weekend opener.
Then the audience dropped 50 percent in the film's second and third weekends.
Meanwhile, "Pearl Harbor's " domestic ticket sales have yet to catch up with DreamWorks' animated hit "Shrek" ($188 million) and
Universal's "The Mummy Returns" ($191 million), both of which have been in release only a few weeks longer.
Disney officials predict "Pearl Harbor" will earn about $200 million domestically and at least $250 million internationally.
20871. Toenails - 6/22/2001 1:10:39 PM
It's really hard for me to believe that professional moviemakers, looking at their end product before its general release, couldn't have seen for themselves that "Pearl Harbor" was an inferior production.
My guess is that they simply calculated (probably correctly) that despite its high cost it would still drag in enough income to result in a substantial profit, and so, the public be damned, let it fly.
20872. janjon - 6/22/2001 2:07:54 PM
Slap Shot remains one of the most satisfying movies I've ever seen.
It has been a while. Time to rent it again.
20873. CalGal - 6/22/2001 2:09:33 PM
You know, I don't ever remember seeing it, although I must have. I'll be checking it out, too.
20874. ElliottRW - 6/23/2001 11:11:24 PM
Well my kids are out of town so, for the first time in, well, years, I watched a movie geared towards grownups during prime time.
The movie, Twelve Monkies turned out to be a complete waste of time.
20875. CalGal - 6/24/2001 12:15:14 AM
Blockbusters is still open. There's still time. Quick, run out and rent something!
20876. ElliottRW - 6/24/2001 7:36:30 PM
Tonight's choice is either Just Cause, The Truth About Cats and Dogs, or Absolute Power.
I couldn't find any of these movies on the review page so if you've seen any of them, please speak up in the next 25 minutes to help me make my decision.
20877. CalGal - 6/24/2001 7:44:32 PM
Both Cats and Dogs and Absolute Power are mildly enjoyable--good rentals, with a fair amount of flaws. I particuarly liked Clint in Absolute Power--he plays amiable and old quite well. Cats and Dogs works mainly because of Janeane Garafalo, but is a passable little comedy.
I didn't see Just Cause, but I remember it being roundly panned. That's the one of the three I'd avoid.
20878. CalGal - 6/24/2001 7:46:04 PM
In thinking a bit more about it, I should warn you that you have to overlook an annoying Judy Davis and Gene Hackman in Absolute Power--the bad guy plot is pretty weak. It works to the extent it does because of Clint and Ed Harris, the cop.
So if those three are your only options, I'd go with Cats and Dogs. I don't suppose you can run out and rent the DVD of The Third Man?
20879. MaxMacks - 6/24/2001 7:48:21 PM
Duck---You would enjoy the scathing and very funny review in the New Yorker mag.
a few weeks ago of the movie PEARL HARBOR.
20880. ElliottRW - 6/24/2001 7:57:22 PM
Thanks, Cal. Truth it is.
20881. CalGal - 6/24/2001 8:11:32 PM
Elliot--don't forget to use the IMDB at times like this. It is always your friend.
20882. ElliottRW - 6/24/2001 8:39:01 PM
IMDB did a good job of narrowing my choices down to 3. Cause (6.1), Power (6.4), and Truth (6.6) were, sadly, my best choices.
20883. CalGal - 6/24/2001 9:04:09 PM
Well, they have reviews on the site. The Maltin blurb is reasonably reliable.
20884. ElliottRW - 6/24/2001 10:04:09 PM
Well, Truth was fun. A pleasant way to while away two hours before watching Scarface (the 1932 ver).
Thanks again, and goodnight.
20885. Toenails - 6/25/2001 11:27:22 AM
Would someone please post a prompt to the review of Pearl Harbor that appeared in The New Yorker?
I've been to the magazine's website a couple of times but can't figure out how to maneuver around there to find anything earlier than the contents of the current issue.
20886. JudithAtHome - 6/25/2001 11:31:02 AM
If it's like my local newspaper, the article may be archived and you'll have to pay a small fee to read it. Don't know if this is true with that magazine but it would make sense if they want to make a little money they might lose through subscriptions being dropped due to free on-line content.
20887. CalGal - 6/25/2001 11:37:07 AM
You can't find anything earlier than the current issue--and until recently the New Yorker wasn't even as online as it is now. They stopped sending me it, even though I renewed my subscription back in November. Very annoying.
20888. rubberducky - 6/25/2001 11:41:01 AM
went to see a matinee showing of Tomb Raider and was profoundly disappointed.
plot holes, inconsistencies, weak special effects, zero characterization, and no good villains are just some of the problems this movie has.
the main gripe i have is this could have been the franchise movie. it so should have been the next Indiana Jones - instead it was just dumb.
not horrible or a slap to the intelligence of the viewer (the was the occasional good scene), but just dumb.
avoid.
rent down the line only if all the good movies are rented.
20889. PelleNilsson - 6/25/2001 1:00:47 PM
Pearl Harbour has been premiered in Tokyo
IHT article. Excerpt:
From editing to marketing, Buena Vista International, the Disney division that is distributing the film in Japan, appears to have gone to great lengths to try to soften "Pearl Harbor" and dodge historical polemics with the lucrative Japanese market in mind.
20890. racehorse - 6/25/2001 9:41:33 PM
Finally saw Oh brother, where art thou? but cannot induce husband to view same. He believes George Clooney is way too handsome and needs no further encouragement.
20891. arkymalarky - 6/25/2001 10:37:02 PM
My parents have been trying to rent it so we can watch it, but all the copies have been gone. Maybe in a week or two it will be available. They bought the album, though, and love it.
20892. Åse - 6/25/2001 11:16:27 PM
We saw it last week in the theatre. Only 2 bucks per person. The little girl nursed and slept thru all of it. First time I've been to a big-screen movie since her birth.
20893. Toenails - 6/26/2001 8:03:30 AM
I've read one good and one bad review of A.I. and for no good reason I've developed a curious sense of proprietorship or loyalty or some such, about this movie.
I want it to be not just good, but great, and I hate the reviewer who didn't like it, even though, for all I know, he/she may be correct on all counts.
Am I unique in developing these self-created false loyalties, or do other people similarly find themselves rooting for particular movies, books, etc. despite their having no connection or investment in the work or in its creators?
20894. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 8:13:30 AM
Am I unique in developing these self-created false loyalties, or do other people similarly find themselves rooting for particular movies, books, etc. despite their having no connection or investment in the work or in its creators?
No. I rooted for Sixth Sense and I kept tabs on its box office take. Ditto for Something About Mary.
I know for a fact I've shared you annoyance for critics who panned a film I hadn't yet seen but expected/hoped would be good. Can't think of what movies I felt that way about now, but I know I've done it.
Half-Assed Review
X-Men (now on Cinemax)
I've seen this movie about ten times now, in whole or part, and it remains the best superhero movie since Superman II, and might be better than even that great movie.
The first half is conspicuously better than the second, but it's still a great ride.
Why is it so damn good? Simple: Director Bryan Singer (and the writer/producer, whose name escapes me) took the idea of the X-Men seriously rather than as the opportunity for a 120 minute self-spoof and Burger King novelty toy tie-in.
And Hugh Jackman may be the biggest new star in the last thirty years. This guy's the real deal, and I just can't wait until I cast him as Blondie in my shot-for-shot remake of the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
20895. Toenails - 6/26/2001 8:22:37 AM
So, Ace, do you think someone who had never even heard of the X-Men before the movie came out would still enjoy it, or does it require a certain amount of inside baseball to appreciate?
20896. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 8:34:30 AM
TN,
Well, they have to introduce the premise that "all of sudden there are lots of mutations" and then introduce 11 major mutated characters, each with unique powers, in a breif period of time, so they don't have a lot of time for exposition.
As the director pointed out, Superman (the movie) had only to explain and introduce ONE fantastical character. X-Men has to introduce ELEVEN.
That said, they do a reasonable job of introducing people quickly. Just don't expect a lot of backstory for each character.
The only thing they didn't really explain was Cyclops' power. Just so you know, Cyclops projects some sort of red-laser energy beams from his eyes. But he projects these beams *constantly,* not just when he wants to. That's why he always has to wear ruby-colored eyeglasses/a ruby-colored visor. The visor prevents his eyebeams from destroying everything in sight; he opens the visor up when he *wants* to destroy something.
This wasn't really explained at all, so it might cause you to wonder why Cyclops is suddenly powerless when someone swipes his visor. He's powerless because he has to keep his eyes shut tight or else begin vaporizing whatever he looks at.
That's pretty much the only thing you have to know going into the movie.* Everything else is reasonably well explained.
*Actually, you probably don't NEED to know that, either. My girlfriend, who didn't know much about the X-Men, wasn't troubled by not knowing this. She just figured Cyclops needed his visor to operate his power.
20897. Francis Urquhart - 6/26/2001 9:44:38 AM
Blow
Rent it. Johnny Depp is effective as drug dealer George Jung, but George Jung's life, even as he amasses $60 million in cocaine profits and pals around with Pablo Escobar, is boring. In the last fourth of the film, Depp is outfitted with a paunch. It looks fake and it is distracting. Grade: C.
20898. Francis Urquhart - 6/26/2001 9:55:00 AM
Atlantis
I thought this was a good Disney movie. A different style of animation, a little darker, tons of violence, with deaths in the hundreds (and a funeral to boot), and more than a little sex appeal (The female baddie was a stacked, statuesque, butch blond). It dragged a little, but picked up quickly, and my only real complaint is that Michael J. Fox's gee-willickers voice is grating. Grade: B.
20899. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 10:07:59 AM
Ace:
there is no frickin' way X-Men was a better comic book movie than Blade
sorry, can't do it
20900. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:09:43 AM
Blade was an inept and boring movie.
20901. Francis Urquhart - 6/26/2001 10:10:13 AM
From my vantage point (I know nothing about either comic), both films were similar: competent, sometimes engaging, sometimes dragging action fare.
20902. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:11:39 AM
FU spent his youth reading Archie Comix.
20903. Francis Urquhart - 6/26/2001 10:13:08 AM
Goofus and Gallant, ass face.
20904. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 10:25:04 AM
'boring'? you are insane.
besides, Snipes nailed his character.
true, Stewart & McKellen did as well, but they were overshadowed by the needlessly distracting and gross looking Toad and the oh-so-sexy-ain't-she Mystique.
i completely hated Rouge and Storm. Halle Berry was as useless in X-Men as she is in real-life.
anyway, as comic book movies go, Blade had a lot better grip on the subject matter and was truer to the characters (wellllll, except for Stephen Dorff being so young, but it is a minor point)
20905. Francis Urquhart - 6/26/2001 10:26:18 AM
Hey.
Easy on Halle Berry, cupcake.
20906. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:30:38 AM
RD,
I never read Blade. I never even knew he was a Marvel character until the movie publicity blitz.
I don't read comics about schwartzas.
20907. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:31:14 AM
Well, unless they're an overshadowed sidekick, like Falcon was to Captain America.
20908. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:32:02 AM
Oh, or unless they wear pimp-fashions and hang around with more-interesting-white-partners, like Luke Cage/Power Man.
20909. glendajean - 6/26/2001 10:36:32 AM
Got dragged along to see the hated Pearl Harbor movie this past weekend. Pretty much a cartoon. The writers strip-mined numerous World War II "B" movies and possibly everything John Wayne ever said in film to make up the dialogue. The love triangle was predictable.
Too bad, really. PH was one of those "where were you moments" for my parents' generation. The whole Dolittle raid on Tokyo that followed could have been quite compelling. The story instead was focused on the love triangle, where all the young fighters looked like they escaped from Abercrombie and Fitch advertising ads (who knew WWII was so "hunky"?) and their nurse lovers could have been pedalling Victoria's Secret wares.
The battle scene was impressive and unlike the dialogue looked different than most WWII movies. OTH, it could have easily been a Star Wars sequel.
Worst acting? Ben Afleck, hands down. Easiest on the eyes? Josh Harnett. Phony acting but appears as if he is enjoying himself as the host of SNL? Alec Baldwin.
20910. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:36:37 AM
Sounds like RD didn't like the X-Men because there were women in it. And he found a naked-except-for-blue-latex Rebecca Romijn-Stamos an "unnecessary distraction."
Go figure.
20911. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 10:36:42 AM
Ace:
well, when he came out in the '70s, he had a 'fro. does that count?
Fran:
well, she was useless in that movie and you know it.
20912. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:37:10 AM
Were it Hugh Jackman wearing the blue latex, RD would be gushing.
20913. Francis Urquhart - 6/26/2001 10:38:25 AM
RD
But useless in real life?
You're acting like an ex-smoker.
20914. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 10:39:07 AM
Ace:
not really. i thought Cyclops was hot, he just needed more screen time, heh.
20915. Francis Urquhart - 6/26/2001 10:39:37 AM
Ace
RD wasn't the one gushing over Jackman earlier. That was you, Eton boy.
"Oh Hugh, pray we'll be mates forever."
20916. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:40:29 AM
Hey, Hugh Jackman is hot. You don't have to be gay to see that.
20917. AceofSpades - 6/26/2001 10:42:37 AM
Cyclops needed a little more screen time, but then, so did everybody else. There were six fricking main characters/heroes.
I'd've liked more screentime for Cyclops, but I thought he was well-used in his limited role. I thought that having him in it so little, despite the fact that he's obviously the team's leader and superstar, made him more interesting that he might have been had we seen him more.
20918. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 10:43:24 AM
well, Fran, she's useful in jacking up the hit-and-run statistics in CA & flashing her tits in horrible looking John Travolta movies, how's that?
Ace: Hugh did nuttin fer me
20919. rubberducky - 6/26/2001 10:44:42 AM
Ace must be more the 'bear' type than i am...
20920. Cellar Door - 6/26/2001 11:23:34 AM
"No such thing as too hairy" Ace?
20921. Cellar Door - 6/27/2001 10:58:28 AM
"A.I." is very strange. I was consistently interested but never really involved. Not a film for children at all. Very much about robots -- but beaten on this score by "Blade Runner."
Spielberg's visual proficiency continues to astonish, but his emotionalism is odder than ever. This is far from a disaster like "The Color Purple." It's closer to an interesting failure on the order of "Empire of the Sun" (which my date, Jordon Nardino, is really crazy about. He didn't like "A.I." much at all. Jordon's in his 20's.)
The most incredible thing in the movie, however, is Haley Joel Osment.
There has never been a child actor like this.
That's about it -- save of course for Jude Law.
I want one for Christmas!
(More when more people have seen it.)
20922. Jamie R - 6/27/2001 10:59:17 AM
I saw Moulin Rouge last night, drove across the street to buy the soundtrack, then saw it again.
If this movie doesn't work for you it is going to seem like the dumbest thing ever made, and I wouldn't want to have to argue the point. It's not a movie that needs to inspire a host of immitators, but it's also not like anything else I've seen.
Of course, there's a lot I haven't seen, so the people cursing it for having shoplifted so many other movies may have a legitimate bitch. In this case I'm happy to be so ignorant.
20923. marshame - 6/27/2001 11:04:27 AM
I adored Moulin Rouge. It is definitely unique. Admittedly, the story line is a cliche, but the visual effects are stunning!! I have never seen anything like it. And I thought it was quite clever how the previews lead you to believe it is a drama, when it is actually an hilarious musical.
20924. marshame - 6/27/2001 11:05:28 AM
Okay, make that an hilarious musical with a tragic end (if that's possible.) I heard a lady behind me boohooing in the end, so it is clear that some were caught up in the story line, but I just loved watching it.
20925. DJ JOE INC - 6/27/2001 11:08:49 AM
>Hey, Hugh Jackman is hot. You don't have to be gay to see that.
yes- he is well sculpted
Finally saw Moulin rouge - last night- very good- will end up getting it on DVD.
20926. marshame - 6/27/2001 11:12:13 AM
I wish I were not so out of it in the contemporary music scene, but I understand that at the last minute they had to re-do one of the numbers written by Kurt Colbain because Marilyn Manson had performed it for the movie Moulin Rouge and when Courtney Love found out she pitched a fit, so they had to get some unknown band to re-record it at the last minute.
I know the gossip - I just don't know the music.
20927. Jamie R - 6/27/2001 11:16:01 AM
I was also very caught up at the end, marshame (and I recognize that the story line was a little, um, tired.) For the most part, if the actors are sold on an emotion then I'm going along with them. I thought Kidman and McGreggor (sp?) were fantastic in that regard. Someone at TT pointed out that if anyone had held back in their performance then nothing would have worked.
20928. christipeters - 6/27/2001 11:29:18 AM
We rented and watched Unbreakable last night.
First off, let me say that I had a hard time getting into it because I have a personal dislike of dark murky scenes. I realize it is a deliberately chosen style here and there is nothing wrong with this technique, but I just hate it. I hate dimly lit or dark rooms irl and I hate dark murky movies.
LD found it really boring and commented that she was glad we never got around to seeing it at the theatre as she didn't think it was worth the cost.
I found it to move slowly, but it intrigued me enough that I couldn't just turn it off. I wanted to see where it was going. I loved the interaction between the Dad and the son. I also found the scenes between husband and wife well done. They picked up the tone of a marriage in trouble but not yet completely broken very well. The scene between the 13 yr old Glass and his Mom, reflected in the TV set was also well-done, imo. However, that was the point at which LD exasperately exclaimed "why is everything being shown in reflections!?"
So, I guess I'd say I'm glad I rented it, but agree with LD about it not being worth the price of an outing to the theatre and it's not on my list of movies to re-watch.
20929. CalGal - 6/27/2001 4:54:35 PM
I saw Moulin Rouge last night, drove across the street to buy the soundtrack, then saw it again.
Ha. I saw it twice before I remembered to get the soundtrack, and I don't think it's left my player since. It is the movie that Evita tried to be and failed miserably. I think it is the best musical since Cabaret--primarily through lack of competition (although 0 Brother was very good).
I completely agree with your review: you will love it or hate it. I don't think it's possible to be neutral about it. At times I found myself just smiling--not at the comedy, but just at the sheer joy of watching an original musical that honestly achieved some of the MGM magic.
It's not perfect--but then, even Singin in the Rain has the interminable Broadway Melody piece. It takes risks, and quite a few of them work.
Favorite moments:
20930. CalGal - 6/27/2001 4:55:30 PM
Christi,
It was rather bizarre, upon reflection, to realize that the kid was extremely disturbed.
20931. CalGal - 6/27/2001 4:57:00 PM
There was no shoplifting. Sure, it was derivative, but all musicals are short on story--one reason why Singin' and West Side Story are so noteworthy is that they are an exception to this rule. It certainly didn't rip anything off. I had a conversation with the Ms a while ago about how they used current songs--but so did many Hollywood musicals, including some of the very best.
I would recommend it with caution, but anyone who likes it will almost certainly rank it as one of the top films of the year.
20932. racehorse - 6/27/2001 5:13:41 PM
Which kid was extremely disturbed? The kid in Unbreakable? Wow, I didn't get that at all.
I loved that movie.
20933. CalGal - 6/27/2001 5:23:23 PM
He sure seemed that way to me. He was way, way too hung up on his dad. And the scene with the gun, while terrifying and well done, is an indication of a seriously fucked up kid. In fact, that's where the power of the scene derived, I thought.
20934. racehorse - 6/27/2001 5:33:26 PM
Really? I didn't take it that way at all--I thought the kid's desperation and father-worship had more to do with sensing the tension between the parents and knowing he had no control over it.
20935. CalGal - 6/27/2001 5:42:20 PM
Oh, I thought so too. And a kid sufficiently desperate to do what he did is seriously disturbed.
20936. racehorse - 6/27/2001 5:46:10 PM
An interesting perspective. I like it when art is open to so many subtly different interpretations. I especially like it when it's unlike a lot of Hollywood movies, which seem to assume the moviegoer is stupid and can't handle moral ambiguity.
20937. christipeters - 6/27/2001 6:48:28 PM
CalGal - What's the story like, what little there is that is? I don't want a total run-down on the plot. I don't want to be 'spoiled', but I haven't read anything about it that goes beyond the costumes and songs. I'm trying to decide whether to go see it this coming weekend, taking LD, or to wait 'til the following weekend when she's out of town ans go see it by myself.
20938. christipeters - 6/27/2001 6:48:43 PM
ans = and
20939. ScottLoar - 6/27/2001 10:12:58 PM
I was told Moulin Rouge is the 1890's meeting MTV and the result isn't worth seeing.
20940. CalGal - 6/27/2001 10:18:19 PM
Well, it's not a movie you can take someone else's word for. If you don't care for musicals, I suspect you wouldn't like it.
Christi--with the exception of one humorous risque scene near the beginning, there is little sex and no violence. The hero is gorgeous in a way that undoubtedly appeals to teens. It's very ro-man-tic. Decent chance LD will like it.
It's a love story, nothing particularly original--but not objectionable, either.
20941. ScottLoar - 6/27/2001 10:27:01 PM
I like musicals. Johnny Depp guarantees the movie is bad. And I can take someone else's word for it - they are discriminating and critical.
Hell, this whole thread is mostly "someone else's word for" movies.
20942. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 10:33:10 PM
I just can't see how the Ewan MacGregor I see on interviews is somehow transformed into a romantic lead who is gorgeous...he looks like a clerk in a shoe store to me. A second tier shoe store. Tom McAns or something....
20943. CalGal - 6/27/2001 10:49:56 PM
Johnny Depp guarantees the movie is bad.
Johhny Depp isn't in it, or did I misunderstand?
Hell, this whole thread is mostly "someone else's word for" movies.
I rarely take other people's word about movies, myself--I look for their reasons for whatever opinion they have, and go from there. I suspect that's what most people do.
I also suspect that you would not like Moulin Rouge, and even though I loved it I would advise that you not go, after giving you some criteria to make up your own mind. But knowing that someone else disliked it is insufficient, in this case. That's all I meant.
20944. CalGal - 6/27/2001 10:52:11 PM
Judith,
I just can't see how you've reached your apparently advanced age and still live life thinking that the only standard for attractiveness is your rather astonishingly limited personal one. Fortunately, I don't find the answer worth pursuing.
20945. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 10:58:49 PM
Then why bother mentioning it? I've a right to think skinny English lads are asexual, just as you've a right to think think they are "all that". That doesn't make either one of us wrong; we just thing differently.
And as to my advanced age, you're getting there so don't knock it til you arrive...which I've no doubt you will be kicking and screaming when you do.
20946. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 10:59:16 PM
thing=think
20947. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 11:02:03 PM
You're welcome to all the Leos and Ewans and whatevers....there's enough for all of us, luckily. After all, if we all thought alike, wouldn't it be a bore?
20948. CalGal - 6/27/2001 11:02:28 PM
All of us are "getting there". I meant no slur; you always mention your age.
You have a right to think anything you like. "Ewan McGregor is dog ugly and looks like a Thom McAns poster boy" would go unobserved, or with argument to the contrary. Idiotic musings about why it is that everyone else doesn't think he looks like a shoe ad are also fine, if you don't mind sarcastic rejoinders. Feel free to do as you choose.
20949. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 11:05:13 PM
I think I do feel free to do as I choose; it just doesn't seem to agree with you when I do.
20950. CalGal - 6/27/2001 11:05:45 PM
After all, if we all thought alike, wouldn't it be a bore?
Your world, and welcome to it.
You haven't been paying attention. You were the one demanding groupthink, not me.
Now, cease and desist this prattle or I'll have to move the whole spew (including my posts wasting time in response to your banalities) to the Inferno. Up to now, it's been marginally topical. But I sense a whine coming on.
No, no. Don't speak.
(what movie is that from?)
20951. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 11:07:22 PM
Who gives a shit? I don't memorize movies, Cal...move all of it, I don't give a great god damn.
20952. CalGal - 6/27/2001 11:12:56 PM
Well, gosh, I was trying to get back on topic. If you don't know, just be polite and let someone else take their turn. Shush, now.
Not that it's terribly difficult. I was just enjoying being all Wiestlike, even if no one could actually see it.
20953. JudithAtHome - 6/27/2001 11:29:06 PM
My favorite Wiest moment was in Independence Day when she struck the match in the gas filled kitchen.
20954. Jenerator - 6/27/2001 11:38:36 PM
Most English men are complete hounds Judith.
You're not alone in thinking this.
20955. Jenerator - 6/27/2001 11:39:58 PM
In fact, when I lived in Canterbury, I was able to truthfully reassure my then boyfriend/now hubby that if ever there was a safe country to send a single woman, England was it.
Woof!
20956. CalGal - 6/27/2001 11:40:05 PM
I saw Anniversary Party the other night, a worthy entry in the "camera observes a gathering" genre. Jennifer Jason Leigh and Alan Cummings wrote and directed, calling in all their friends: Kevin Kline, Phoebe Cates (and their brood), John C. Reilly, Jennifer Beals, Gywneth Paltrow, and Jane Adams, who I enjoy so much that I watched Father of the Bride II just to see her play the calm obstetrician.
Leigh and Cumings also star in their effort, as a dueling show-biz couple--she's the world's Meg Ryan, he's a popular author who has just been given his first directing gig--who have decided to throw a party in celebration of their sixth year of marriage (minus a 6 month separation). Friends, ex-lovers, co-workers, mega movie stars, and even neighbors half a step away from a lawsuit come over to spend the day drinking pink champagne and play charades. And that's about it.
Movies like this succeed or fail on whether or not they make the audience enjoy their lot as voyeurs, and whether or not the actors convince you that they really don't know you're looking. Anniversary Party scores very well on both curves--there are no great moments of truth or closure, but damn it's fun seeing what Hollywood suburbans live like. The actors, all in parts written with an eye not only to their strengths, but their history, return the favor en masse; the ensemble cast works effortlessly together in a variety of combinations.
The only downside is that the movie goes on for three endings too many; thankfully, the story avoids any Moments of Truth or Deep Dark Secrets. I suppose one could argue that this, too, was part of the point: the film, like the party, went on just a little bit too long? Naw.
It doesn't require a big screen and can easily WTDVD, but it's a nice change from blockbusters, so keep it in mind.
20957. MsIvoryTower - 6/27/2001 11:43:19 PM
Johnny Depp is hot.
Ewan McGreggor is also hot, I just can't see him singing around Paris with Kidman. However, I'm going to see Moulin Rouge. I owe it to myself given my long love of musicals, and I'm going to try not to view it with a jaundiced eye.
20958. Jenerator - 6/27/2001 11:45:05 PM
MsIT,
Marshame *LOVES* Johnny Depp.
20959. CalGal - 6/27/2001 11:47:51 PM
I, too, think Johnny Depp is hot. But the only movie of his I've ever enjoyed is What's Eating Gilbert Grape--and that's not a movie I would recommend freely. So I can sympathize with Scott's observation and still think he's gorgeous.
MacGregor I make no apologies for--hell, I thought he and Neeson were the best visual effects in Phantom Menace.
20960. MsIvoryTower - 6/27/2001 11:50:02 PM
Cal
My guilty confession is that any movie Depp is in is worth seeing, and I've liked them all. Inexplicable, really, but there it is.
20961. MsIvoryTower - 6/27/2001 11:52:29 PM
Well, actually, it is explicable, it's just not rational....
20962. Jenerator - 6/27/2001 11:52:49 PM
I thought that What's Eating Gilbert Grape was very good. My mother thinks that Depp was extremely sexy in Nightmare on Elm Street, Cry Baby, 21 Jump Street, and most everything else, EXCEPT Edward Scissor Hands and the overdose in LA movie.
20963. Åse - 6/27/2001 11:53:44 PM
Ewan McGregor mmmmmmm
20964. CalGal - 6/27/2001 11:53:45 PM
I did like him in Sleepy Hollow, although the movie sucked. And while I wasn't fond of Ed Wood, he was great.
In fact, he's usually terrific in his movies. I just never like the movie.
20965. Åse - 6/27/2001 11:55:06 PM
Hmmm. Maybe I just like Johnny Depp movies because Johnny Depp's in them. I didn't know I was that shallow.
20966. MsIvoryTower - 6/27/2001 11:56:20 PM
Yes, Ase, it's a terrible truth to face, isn't it?
I don't much care however. Bring him on....
20967. CalGal - 6/27/2001 11:57:18 PM
I've always thought MacGregor was hot, but I just looked at his entire resume and the first movie I ever saw him in was Phantom Menace. This is the second. I think I saw him in that ER episode, but it wasn't very good.
20968. HollyW - 6/28/2001
I liked Edward Scissorhands when it came out, but I was more Angsty then. I have no desire to see it now.
Gilbert Grape is just wonderful, and is the only thing I've enjoyed Leo DiCaprio in.
20969. Åse - 6/28/2001 12:01:51 AM
He was in Little Bird (and, he plays a shy everyday guy, and I didn't quite recognize him and yet I did and ...) He's also in Velvet Goldmine playing the Iggy Pop part. He was in something else that I never saw because my movie-fiend pal and Star-Wars geek was musing about what a great choice Ewan McGregor was for the part. Hmmmm.
20970. MsIvoryTower - 6/28/2001 12:02:40 AM
Cal
I first saw him in some god awful film that was lauded by the critics, I think it was Trainspotting? Anyway, it was about a group of Scottish youths who lived meaningless lives and became drug addicts. MacGregor (sorry about the misspelling, I can't ever remember how to spell such names) was very good, but looked totally different then when he surfaced in Phantom Menace in which I found him quite gorgeous.
20971. MsIvoryTower - 6/28/2001 12:03:34 AM
Ah yes, I also saw him in Velvet Goldmine, another bizarre movie.
20972. Åse - 6/28/2001 12:04:46 AM
I thought DiCaprio was good in "this boys story" (or whatever it was), which was the first I saw him in. Second Gilbert grape, where I thought he was fantastic. So I liked him, and later got sorely disappointed.
I have an irrational hatred for "Titanic".
20973. Åse - 6/28/2001 12:05:49 AM
Trainspotting.
That's it.
Everybody I know raves about it. I've never seen it.
20974. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:06:06 AM
Gilbert Grape is just wonderful, and is the only thing I've enjoyed Leo DiCaprio in.
Yes. Arky and I were discussing this movie earlier. It's on the top ten list of movies about dysfunctional families, and it's the only movie I like DiCaprio in, too.
Ms,
Trainspotting was the movie that launched him--it also had the guy who went on to do the male strippers movie that went on to be a well-received Broadway musical with many Tony nominations (and where is my brain tonight, that I can't pull up the name?). He was also in Shallow Grave, another movie I heard a lot about and didn't see, and Little Voice.
20975. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:07:21 AM
Oh, yes, he was in Velvet Goldmine, too. All movies I tend to avoid until I'm working at home and desperate to listen to anything on TV.
20976. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:08:44 AM
Dammit, what's the name of that movie? The song at the end is "Keep (or leave) Your Hat On".
It has Tom Wilkinson in it. Arggggghhh.
20977. HollyW - 6/28/2001 12:09:14 AM
I could never, never sit through Trainspotting again. Although it is one of the few movies in the world that doesn't romanticize drug addiction, in my book.
Unlike that Basketball Diaries piece of crap (thus, neatly tying in Leo to Ewan...)
20978. HollyW - 6/28/2001 12:10:03 AM
The Full Monty? Really? Who?
20979. Åse - 6/28/2001 12:11:00 AM
Full Monty
20980. HollyW - 6/28/2001 12:11:05 AM
Did the lead in The Full Monty play the guy in Trainspotting who smashed a glass in someone's face?
20981. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:11:21 AM
Oh, that's right, he reached into the toilet. Bleah.
20982. Shannon - 6/28/2001 12:12:22 AM
Shallow Grave was creepy. Hubby didn't like it much. I did, but I don't think I'd want to see it again. Even for Ewan MacGregor.
20983. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:12:43 AM
Fuck. How the hell did I forget that, dammit? And you just slip it in, too. No "I know, I know!" No, you remind me that anyone with a brain would know it.
Robert somebody. Well, I'll have to break down and stop reading reviews in the IMDB and look it up.
20984. Åse - 6/28/2001 12:13:52 AM
Something Carlyle? Also in Angelas Ashes
20985. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:14:03 AM
Carlyle. Ha. Didn't have to look it up after all. He was also in that dregs of a James Bond movie.
I got the bleahs just reading the reviews of Shallow Grave.
20986. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:15:11 AM
Yeah, well, then Ase beats me to it. I'm being humiliated this evening.
Speaking of eye candy, Gentleman's Agreement was on AMC the other day. Gregory Peck. Yum.
20987. HollyW - 6/28/2001 12:18:42 AM
Ewan reached into the toilet, actually.
20988. MsIvoryTower - 6/28/2001 12:19:44 AM
Double digits yum.
Last scene of Roman Holiday. Peck walking down the aisle in that long legged panther stride of his....
Still brings goose bumps to me when I watch.
Was there ever anyone to equal him???
20989. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:20:19 AM
Yes, I know. My "oh, that's right" was in response to your comment on the realities of drug use. "
20990. CalGal - 6/28/2001 12:23:03 AM
He really does look good with that walk. I have often wondered if the director had a crush on him.
But I prefer Gentleman's Agreement, even if it is an outdated issue film. Celeste Holm is the best "career woman" in movie history. Kicks Kate and Roz all over the room.
20991. MsIvoryTower - 6/28/2001 12:54:40 AM
That shot has got to be one of the most fabulous, sexy shots of a man in a movie I've ever had the pleasure to see.
However, my alltime favorite Peck character is Atticus Finch. I really adore all his films however. I am totally indiscriminate when it comes to Peck films.
20992. TheWizardOfWhimsy - 6/28/2001 12:56:07 AM
"Roz" came from my hometown, where I worked at a liquor store on extended breaks during my college years.
"Miss Russell" would call every Christmas to send her alcoholic brother a case of Bells "12" scotch whisky. One year the owner wasn't around to take the order, so I had to.
She sensed my fluster and was charming.
20993. CalGal - 6/28/2001 1:04:14 AM
I like Roz--and Kate. But Celeste had more of the truth of it.
Neat story.
Ms,
To Kill a Mockingbird is on the CalGal as Blasphemer list. Never liked it, as we've discussed before.
20994. MsIvoryTower - 6/28/2001 1:06:23 AM
philistine.
20995. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:07:51 AM
That's just wrong CalGal.
It's on my very short list of movies that are maybe as good as the book.
20996. CalGal - 6/28/2001 1:08:31 AM
Of course, the movie would be much improved if they got rid of Scout. Little twerp.
(ducks)
20997. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:08:54 AM
Bite me.
20998. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:09:10 AM
Just for that....
20999. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:09:24 AM
I deserve....
21000. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:09:39 AM
This.
21001. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:10:05 AM
Now, I really am Old Guard. Arky's right.
21002. CalGal - 6/28/2001 1:10:06 AM
And Atticus is a lousy lawyer. Righteously lecturing the jury instead of trying to save his client.
(exits the room hastily before the Ms decides I'm a rabid dog)
Shannon--I hated the book, too.
21003. CalGal - 6/28/2001 1:10:31 AM
Oh, that's not fair. I wanted this one.
21004. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:10:32 AM
Oh, you're just weird, then.
21005. CalGal - 6/28/2001 1:11:00 AM
Am not. I'm just not Southern.
21006. CalGal - 6/28/2001 1:11:26 AM
Wait, that's not true. I am weird. It's just not why I don't like that damn book.
21007. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:11:38 AM
Oh, that's not fair. I wanted this one.
Yes, but you don't DESERVE it, because you are, in fact, a philistine.
I think this is my first one.
21008. MsIvoryTower - 6/28/2001 1:12:15 AM
Calgal
You should run from those blasphemous comments.
Finch knew Tom wasn't going to get a fair trial. He lectured the jury because he knew what they were going to do.
Man, I love that film.
21009. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:12:46 AM
Well, you're most assuredly not Southern, I'll grant you that. Now you'll go saying you didn't like Steel Magnolias or something.
21010. Shannon - 6/28/2001 1:17:30 AM
I saw an excellent stage version of it a few months ago. To Kill a Mockingbird, I mean. Not Steel Magnolias.
21011. Åse - 6/28/2001 1:18:15 AM
(I have never seen that movie. Even if it has Gregory Peck. I like him in "Spellbound". The psychology in it makes me giggle though).
21012. CalGal - 6/28/2001 1:24:30 AM
Hey, the Dali stuff rocked in Spellbound. But Peck and Bergman weren't all that good together. Who'da thunk?
Ms,
Naw. A good lawyer would have connived them into letting him live.
Shannon,
I hated Steel Magnolias, too.
21013. Toenails - 6/28/2001 7:39:12 AM
Jeez, Cal, if Mockingbird is too mawkish for you, exactly what dramatic film can you cite that passes muster?
'Just heard that Jack Lemmon died.
21014. CalGal - 6/28/2001 9:48:27 AM
Yes, I heard that too. I'll miss him--although he really hasn't been the same since his plastic surgery back.
I like lots of mawkish movies, Toe--just don't care for that one.
21015. CalGal - 6/28/2001 9:58:54 AM
21016. CalGal - 6/28/2001 10:01:43 AM
Favorite Lemmon performances:
Some Like It Hot
The Apartment
China Syndrome
Missing
And I never miss The Great Race.
21017. Wombat - 6/28/2001 10:05:53 AM
Some Like It Hot
Mr. Roberts
The Fortune Cookie
The Odd Couple
Prisoner of 2nd Avenue
Saving the Tiger
21018. CalGal - 6/28/2001 10:09:57 AM
I like Mr. Roberts, too, but it's too stylized. Still, it's a great debut. Never liked The Fortune Cookie, or any of the stuff he did with Walter.
I haven't seen Prisoner and Saving The Tiger in years; didn't care for them when I saw them. I imagine I'll have a chance to see them again.
Oh, I also thought Lemmon was terrific in GGR; but it's just not a movie I like watching.
21019. Francis Urquhart - 6/28/2001 10:14:43 AM
Proof of Life
Fails for so many reasons it is worth the watch. Here are a few:
1) The action is on par with something you might see on the A Team.
2) Taylor Hackford tries to reprise the simmering steaminess he got from Jeff Bridges and Rachel Ward and Richard Gere and Debra Winger. Here, he is forced to work with a guy who say "mate" incessantly and the perky popsicle that is Meg Ryan.
3) The script is lame and sometimes inexplicable.
4) David Caruso and David Morse are fine supporting actors, but Caruso runs like a girl. When he runs around, rewind it several times. It is hilarious.
21020. Toenails - 6/28/2001 10:19:00 AM
Saving Private Ryan.
Save the Tiger.
21021. CalGal - 6/28/2001 10:22:16 AM
Yes, thanks.
21022. ScottLoar - 6/28/2001 10:24:06 AM
Jack Lemmon had some few good films which I'll leave you all to thrash and hash about but he was a simpleton, believing Stone's Kennedy fact and other simple absurdities, proof that talent is unhinged from intelligence and often bereft of common sense.
21023. ScottLoar - 6/28/2001 10:25:33 AM
He seemed easiest and most natural in Bell, Book and Candle; fitting I'd say.
21024. Francis Urquhart - 6/28/2001 10:26:14 AM
Scott
"Simpleton" and "long-time Hollywood actor" are synonymous. Like athletes, they generally know what they know, and have the money to know as little else as possible.
21025. Francis Urquhart - 6/28/2001 10:26:45 AM
Save the Tiger is a harrowing performance.
21026. ScottLoar - 6/28/2001 10:28:02 AM
I don't agree that money always buys sloth, but your point is well taken.
21027. Toenails - 6/28/2001 10:28:34 AM
I always thought the performance in "Mr. Roberts" was half-assed, not to say half-witted.
'Lucky he had Fonda there to save his bacon.
Still, he got really good as time went on. "Save the Tiger" was a mediocre screenplay, to be charitable, but Jack made the thing sing, all by himself.
21028. JudithAtHome - 6/28/2001 10:30:22 AM
I loved him in Prisoner of Second Avenue and The Out of Towners ....two very similar roles but both funny.
21029. JudithAtHome - 6/28/2001 10:31:27 AM
Don't forget Days of Wine and Roses , another in the harrowing vein...
21030. Indiana Jones - 6/28/2001 10:38:58 AM
We had a recent discussion re Lemmon. I remember that Judith disliked him.
Saw A Simple Plan. If you like films in which everything is a predictable rehash of bits you've seen before told in a pretentious way featuring characters who never, ever make an intelligent decision but instead get across the movie's MESSAGE--here, "greed is bad"--then this is right up your alley. Perhaps that's too simple; the message is actually the never-before-expounded "even good people can be corrupted by the prospect of riches."
Laughed a couple of times at just how clumsy this effort was and it was suspenseful for about five minutes somewhat near the end, but otherwise D-.
That's probably harsh, because as Ace says, most films are bad, and I wasn't totally bored with A Simple Plan--which is the worst sin. But I was still surprised at just how awful it was, especially since Billy Bob Thornton received an Oscar nomination. His performance is woeful, regardless, a Hollywood version of what that kind of character is like and never the least bit authentic to me. Think Lenny in Of Mice and Men.
21031. CalGal - 6/28/2001 10:42:02 AM
I never got the impression that he was stupid--never saw any quotes on Kennedy.
I would say his greatest flaw as an actor was also his strength: he was instantly likeable, and was never completely willing to risk that--although he came the closest, as memory serves, in Save the Tiger.
But if he didn't take risks in performances, he certainly did in the movies he chose. He acted for scale at least once in movies he cared about. Though his politics were standard Hollywood liberal, I don't think he ever let the movie quality suffer for a polemic. Hence The China Syndrome works extremely well as a taut thriller with Lemmon's heartbreak the key emotional component, Missing as a story about a parent's grief.
If he tended to stay within his range, he also didn't fade or fall back on easy mannerisms as he aged, continually looking for new projects that interested and excited him.
He was one of the first actors I was able to identify when I started life as a movie buff at the age of 9, and I'll miss him.
21032. JudithAtHome - 6/28/2001 10:47:21 AM
Indy:
I remember that Judith disliked him.
I did but when he was funny or good in a role, I could recognize and admit it.
21033. ScottLoar - 6/28/2001 10:48:21 AM
Jack Lemmon was interviewed live and said to the effect that Stone's Kennedy was true and he (Lemmon) pitied you if you couldn't believe so.
21034. Toenails - 6/28/2001 10:49:42 AM
HBO is running the 1994 Linda Fiorentino flick, "The Last Seduction" -- the one that Leonard Maltin says "makes Barbara Stanwyck in Double Indemnity look like Snow White."
[Spoiler below]:
There were some pretty improbable bits in here, but I liked it because (a) everybody was a bad guy, (b) the Fiorentino character was the baddest of them all, and, deliciously, (c) bad, bad Linda gets away with it!
Sexy and diverting. Recommended.
21035. glendajean - 6/28/2001 11:12:12 AM
I watched The Perfect Storm last night on DVD. Very workman like storm thriller, but all the effort was on the effects. There were characters, and the actors gave compelling enough performances to suggest that their stories were interesting enough and strong enough to carry a movie. But it was mostly stripped down to huge waves.
21036. CalGal - 6/28/2001 2:12:11 PM
A friend just reminded me of my favorite Jack Lemmon line.
"Farewell, you good Leslie you! I hope you win I hope you win!"
21037. glendajean - 6/28/2001 2:46:31 PM
Does Vin Rhymes get the award back?
21038. CalGal - 6/28/2001 2:49:05 PM
hahahahaha!
21039. Cellar Door - 6/28/2001 3:42:50 PM
I interviewed Lemmon once back when I was working for the "Herald-Examiner." It was at his office in Beverly Hills. Just the two of us -- no handlers. A very, very nice man.
21040. Cellar Door - 6/28/2001 3:45:45 PM
My favorite Lemmon perfs: "It Should Happen to You" (his first), "Bell Book and Candle" (more gay subtext than you can shake a stick at), "Some Like it Hot" ("Security"!),"The Apartment" (when he looks at his new hat in Shirley MacLaine's cracked mirror), "The Great Race," "Missing" and the equally underrated "That's Life."
And "Short Cuts."
21041. CalGal - 6/28/2001 3:58:31 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only Great Race fan.
I'd forgotten about BBC, because I can't stand Novak. I haven't seen it in a while; I'll have to look it up.
21042. Cellar Door - 6/28/2001 5:50:30 PM
John Van Druten (Major queen) wrote it. The witches and warlocks living in the Greenwich Village that it depicts are clearly meant to be read as gay.
I saw "The Great Race" when it opened at Radio City. The last shot is one of the most hilarious sight-gags every devised.
I adore Lemmon's character in it,"Professor Fate."
There's a lovely shot of him and his assistant, Peter Falk, riding across the sky in a pedal-powered baloon with the word "Fate" painted acorss it in giant letters.
21043. CalGal - 6/28/2001 5:57:42 PM
Yes, Fate is wonderful--but his alter-ego in the Zenda sendoff is even feyer.
21044. MsIvoryTower - 6/28/2001 6:14:51 PM
Oh my, The Great Race is really one of my all-time favorite comedies. Not only was Lemmon in top form, but Falk, Curtis and Wood turned in fabulous performances as well.
I have the thing on tape, and we watch it several times a year. I'd rank it as possibly the best spoof comedy ever made.
21045. CalGal - 6/28/2001 6:24:10 PM
"Rum! More pie, more pie!"
Splat.
"Brandy! No, I never mix my pies!"
The sword fight between Curtis and Wood is fun.
21046. CalGal - 6/28/2001 11:15:14 PM
Julia and Ben have split up. Bummer.
21047. CalGal - 6/28/2001 11:36:28 PM
I was making dinner while Spawn queued up "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" on the DVD player. All of a sudden he stormed into the kitchen, snarling at the remote control.
"Mom, they're speaking English How the heck do I get it switched to Chinese and subtitles?"
I was most proud.
21048. DanDillon - 6/29/2001 9:15:31 AM
Anne and I are planning on renting a few flicks tonight. Quiet evening at home sorta thing. I need suggestions. What to rent? (I'm open to anything except really scary stuff. Anne gets mad when we watch those.)
21049. glendajean - 6/29/2001 10:21:06 AM
I overheard a promo on TV this morning touting a showing of Animal House. I had forgotten about We'll put them on secret double probation. Maybe that would work for the Mote.
21050. glendajean - 6/29/2001 10:22:19 AM
Dan, have you ever seen The Sweet Hereafter? Very thoughtful movie based on the novel by Russell Banks, about the effects of a school bus wreck upon a small northern town.
21051. glendajean - 6/29/2001 10:28:49 AM
If you are looking for lighter fare, and haven't seen it yet, Billy Elliot is out on rental now as well as Best in Show, Christopher Guest's send-up of the Westminister Dog Show.
21052. ScottLoar - 6/29/2001 10:35:25 AM
See Waterloo Bridge, 1940, with Vivien Leigh and Robert Taylor for a good, crying time. And if you don't then rent a similar 30's tearjerker.
21053. glendajean - 6/29/2001 12:49:52 PM
I enjoyed reading this New York Times review of Francis Veber's The Closet, a French movie about a straight man who discovers that being perceived gay might help him in the work force. Daniel Autuil plays the straight guy. The Closet also co-stars Gérard Depardieu.
21054. CalGal - 6/29/2001 1:12:34 PM
Dan,
I like all of GJ's recommendations--particularly The Sweet Hereafter, which is a brilliant but painful film.
If you haven't seen O Brother Where Art Thou, add it to the list of possibilities.
Do you have DVD? I just watched Beauty and the Beast--the 1946 version. A bit odd, but well worth a look if you can get the Criterion version.
21055. DanDillon - 6/29/2001 1:46:40 PM
Thank you, good people, for the recommendations. As it happens, my DSL went down right after my post and I couldn't get back on until just now. I went out in the meantime and picked up Traffic. I'll surely keep The Sweet Hereafter in mind.
21056. CalGal - 6/29/2001 5:01:59 PM
Ebert on Lemmon
Did anyone read Ebert's "Great Movies" review of Schindler's List? I don't remember him misreading it so completely in his first review. He is now suggesting that Schindler went into business originally with the intent of losing all his money.
21057. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:05:52 PM
Quick Reviews:
Best in Show: Disappointing comedy, even given the rather steep fall-off from Spinal Tap to Waiting for Guffman. Best in Show starts well enough, but the last half of the film abandons the characters we've met in the first half in favor of a pure dog-show mock documentary. In the second half, we see almost nothing except the dog show, plus Fred Willard as a clueless announcer making rather lame, and overbroad, jokes that do not match the comedic style of the rest of the film.
Fred Willard is a mystery to me. Apparently some very funny people think he is funny; but he is not. He turned in the least-plausible, most over-the-top and broad performance in Spinal Tap (as the Air Force Base Commander); he turns in a similar performance here, except it runs for 30 minutes rather than two.
Christopher Guest's performance disappoints greatly. He does a funny voice, and he seems a plausible character, but he doesn't say or do anything funny. His dog, a big bloodhound, is adorable, and I like the dog a lot, but shouldn't there be some jokes here, too?
The only funny stuff in the movie comes from the pairings of Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara -- he's a dweeb, she's his hot wife who's had "hundreds" of boyfriends, and she runs into half of them in the movie -- and Michael McKean and a guy who I think is named John Michael Higgins, playing a gay couple (McKean's the "Will," Higgins is the "Jack" and ergo the funny one).
Oh-- and Larry Miller shows up, as an ex-beau of O'Hara's, to again become the funniest thing in the whole frickin' movie. This guy is FUNNY. If he read a phone book, I would laugh.
But he's only in it for five minutes, and Levy and O'Hara and McKean and Higgins aren't in it for very much longer, and the movie is sporadically funny in the beginning and then only very sporadically funny in the second half.
21058. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:11:13 PM
Did I like it? It wasn't terrible. I like dogs and I didn't mind seeing a lot of cute dogs and learning about dog-shows. I sort of liked some of the characters. But then, I sort of expect a comedy to be funny, and this film just isn't terribly funny.
Just a note for Spinal Tap/Waiting for Guffman fans: Although ST is perhaps the best comedy in the last twenty years, it inexplicably includes a lot of bad jokes which diminish the film's overall genius. For example, ST and WFG featured a lot of really bad puns. Well, not a LOT, but they were real groaners. "Mime is money"? Not funny.
The trouble with BIS is that a lot of the jokes are easily recognizable as in the same mold as ST's jokes... or, rather, ST's bad jokes. BIS copies ST's unfunny jokes, while apparently unable to duplicate the brilliant stuff.
There is a character, for example, who literally has two left feet.
Mime is money.
21059. Cellar Door - 6/29/2001 5:12:44 PM
I agree, pretty much. I do find Fred Willard funny , but I can't understand the raves he got for this performance. I think the problem is that dog shows are so inherently strange that it's hard to make them a satirical target. It's much too mild a film, given the performers that are involved.
21060. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:26:02 PM
Unbreakable:
Unwatchable.
Well, that's going too far.
Bruce Willis is like Harrison Ford in that, when both actors want to do "serious acting," they turn in painfully wooden and flat and depressive performances. Bruce Willis cracks a smile only ONCE in the whole film, near the end, and when he does you almost jump out of your seat. "Wow! A smile! For once, a different facial expression!"
The director, Shymalan, overestimates his audience's patience on numerous occasions. I bow to none in my hatred of MTV style cuisinart editing, but here Shymalan goes to the opposite extreme. There's a long conversation between Willis & Wife in a restaurant; Shymalan photographs them from across the room, in dim light, fifty feet away, in a single visually-dismal shot that seems to go on forever. For god's sake, give me something to look at. This is a motion picture, emphasis on both motion and picture. It's not a radio play.
And a lot of shots are utterly dark. When darkness is contrasted with light, it's pretty cool. When darkness is contrasted with more darkness, it's just difficult to fucking see. Again: This is not supposed to be a radio play.
21061. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:26:15 PM
The story: Well, as you know, it's about a man who might actually be a superhero. I like the basic idea -- I like superheros, and I find it interesting to try a "real" movie about superheroes -- and I have to admit that I enjoyed the basic premise.
In a cartoon superhero movie, it's always the best part of the movie when the superhero discovers his powers; unfortunately, such scenes only last for two or three minutes. Here, it lasts for more than an hour, and that's not necessarily bad: Again, that's the best part of every superhero story, so why not extend it as much as possible?
Still, the film is ultimately pretty boring and pointless. And, not to give away a SPOILER, but the director tacks on a fairly gratuitous "surprise ending." No doubt he felt compelled to do this after the wild success of the Sixth Sense. But here, the "surprise ending" feels tacked on. It seems to violate the tenor of the movie that went before it. There are no "clues" to it; it just comes, all at once. You either accept it or you don't: You probably won't.
I would suggest renting this film. I think ultimately it's a failure and a misfire, but I have to concede it is at least an interesting and slightly-daring failure.
Or maybe I just like superheroes. Your mileage may vary.
21062. CalGal - 6/29/2001 5:32:08 PM
I agree with that review. I watched it twice in the theaters (wanted to see what I noticed the second time round). It's certainly shooting for something different.
I still think it's odd that the kid was plainly a loony tune and they let that pass without comment. Weren't we supposed to notice?
21063. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:32:12 PM
I think the problem is that dog shows are so inherently strange that it's hard to make them a satirical target.
I think the problem is that Fred Willard used a very-obvious and done-to-death comic trope: the guy who says socially inappropriate things and makes bad jokes. The bad jokes are supposed to be funny because they're so painfully unfunny.
It's not that this isn't a valid trope; it can be very funny. But much of what Willard says is so wildly over-the-top that it isn't funny.
It's funny when someone says something very socially inappropriate, so long as it is plausible that the character would say that. This sort of joke relies upon credibility. We must believe the character COULD say such a ludicrous thing.
But when you don't have that credibility, you just have a guy saying silly things. You don't have the disconnect between the character's boorish behavior and what is expected and proper.
When the character crosses the line -- as Willard does here -- you understand immediately that social-norms have been chucked out the window. Without the tension created by still-operating social norms, crude, boorish, and stupid behavior isn't really funny.
21064. CalGal - 6/29/2001 5:34:10 PM
Opening this week:
AI is getting good to great reviews, with Osment cementing his status as greatest kid actor of the generation.
John Singleton's new movie, Baby Boy, looks interesting.
Songcatcher seems to be one of those movies made by a 70s feminist--but the music is supposed to be great.
Anyone seen Sexy Beast yet?
21065. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:35:38 PM
Here's an analogy:
The word "Piss" is only funny when you're not allowed to say it.
David Letterman got a lot of laughs by saying "piss," because he was (we thought) not allowed to say it. He explained he could say "pissed OFF" but not "pissed ON" (the latter bleeped), because the latter was literal and not allowed. Still, he seemed to be getting one past the censors, and that made it funny.
The word "piss" isn't funny when Chris Rock says it on HBO -- because we know he's ALLOWED to say it.
In Best in Show, Willard is too over-the-top for us to ever believe he shouldn't be saying these things. He crosses the line. He goes from David Letterman, with censors, to Chris Rock, without censors. Since he is obviously cracking jokes without real social boundaries and/or censors, we don't get the laughs from flouting the social boundaries and/or censors: There are none.
21066. glendajean - 6/29/2001 5:37:30 PM
Willard's performance in BIS is an almost dead-on capture of Joe Gargiola's (sp) annual tv hosting of the Westminister Dog Show.
Westminister on its own is interesting, funny and over the top. BIS didn't have much room to expand.
I don't think it was as funny as WFG, but I did like seeing his repertory acting together. I hope that they do something else.
21067. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:38:15 PM
John Singleton's new movie, Baby Boy, looks interesting.
No it doesn't. Why do people feel compelled to claim that Singleton's movies "look interesting"?
He's black. So what. He makes crappy movies that no one is particularly interested in.
21068. CalGal - 6/29/2001 5:41:12 PM
Why do people feel compelled to claim that Singleton's movies "look interesting"?
I'm only speaking of the reviews I've read. I don't bother with most of his movies; the only one I've seen is Boyz N the Hood, which I thought decent but unremarkable.
21069. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:45:14 PM
GJ:
Surely Joe Garagiola doesn't make crude sexual references and tell tales of nailing waitresses every other minute.
The problem isn't with the notion; it's with the execution. He just went too far for me to believe he was anything other than what he was, i.e., and improvisational comedian doing a spoof.
21070. glendajean - 6/29/2001 5:49:15 PM
Garagiola sounds like he fell off another planet and doesn't have a the first clue about dogs. Almost all his references and reactions cause the other commentator, a dog show person, to pause as if he really didn't say that. That JG has hosted this show for several years makes it even more odd. I thought Willard caught that perfectly.
I think I've only watched the entire dog show (it's shown on USA Network over two nights in February) maybe once. But I try to catch snippets of it and the best-in-show round if I can.
21071. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:53:44 PM
I didn't mind the general cluelessness. I found that stuff the closest to being funny. It was almost funny because I thought it was sort-of plausible.
But when he turns to the upper-crust British co-host and asks him about "banging a waitress"... ummmm, no, I don't believe that.
21072. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 5:57:01 PM
I mean, some of his stuff was amusing, like when he asks "Now, these dogs, do they know they're in a competition? Do they feel the competition?"
And the British guy says something like, "Uh, um, well I can't really speak for the dogs. They definitely realize they're being trotted around in a circle, though."
I also admit another joke was funny, but it was only funny because of the British guy's reaction. Willard told a very bad joke about his proctologist "probing his rectum," and how he then told his proctologist, "How about taking me out to dinner first?"
The British guy, annoyed and aghast but refusing to show it, says dryly, "Yes, I remember you telling that story last year."
21073. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 6:05:51 PM
Oh: And another bit of funny cluelessness. Willard asks, "Wouldn't it be a great idea if they dressed that bloodhound up in a Sherlock Holmes hat and pipe? Maybe they could get the pipe to puff out smoke somehow. I think the audience would really love that. It would bring them to their feet. Do they ever dress up the dogs in costumes like that?"
And the British guy just replies, "Uhh, they don't really seem to go in for all that here."
But Willard is undeterred, and he again states what a great idea it would be to dress up a bloodhound like Sherlock Holmes.
I can believe that, sort of. So it's funny. His stupidity is semi-plausible and gets a big chuckle.
But the main problem is that there's just too much Willard, and you barely get to see the main characters for forty minutes. Aside from them running around the ring with their dogs.
21074. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 6:08:40 PM
So Willard had at least three funny jokes, I admit. But he had twenty unfunny ones, and I really thought the film went off the wheels and became an entirely different movie when he came on screen.
21075. glendajean - 6/29/2001 6:16:59 PM
Ace -- you remember more of the jokes than I do. It's been a while since I saw it.
I read somewhere that Guest had his actors improvise lots of scenes. That may have sounded like a good idea at the time, but didn't pan out in the execution of it.
I usually don't like Fred Willard, going back to Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman days. But I liked him in WFG and thought he got crazy JG about right in BIS.
21076. Indiana Jones - 6/29/2001 6:18:34 PM
Ace: Haven't seen the movie, but maybe the idea came from Roger & Me. If you recall, Bob Eubanks (who used to host The Newly Wed Game) was emceeing some kind of local beauty contest (like Miss Michigan or Miss Flint). And when Michael Moore talks to Eubanks the latter makes some really crude and unfunny remarks like Nixon's "done any fornicating lately"?
But what *was* funny about that (if funny is the right word) was that it was a documentary, not a script and Eubanks was a minor "celebrity" demonstrating what a mediocre horse's ass he really was. I doubt it would play the same way in a work of fiction.
21077. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 6:34:05 PM
I read somewhere that Guest had his actors improvise lots of scenes. That may have sounded like a good idea at the time, but didn't pan out in the execution of it.
I agree. Spinal Tap wasn't really "improvised." There weren't any specific lines written down, but everyone knew what the jokes were supposed to be. The scummy, frightening libertine bassist wasn't really improvising when he said, were he not in a rock n' roll band, he'd want to "work with children." He knew he was going to say that and so did the director/Rob Reiner.
So, the lines may have been improvised, but everyone knew where the jokes were.
(If you doubt this, rent the Spinal Tap collector's edition. You'll see a 40 minute demo movie which contains many of the best scenes from the ultimate, "real" movie. So, these guys had done all these jokes before.)
But Waiting for Guffman and Best in Show, I think Guest is literally asking his actors to improvise with no more guidance than "Okay, you suspect your wife had an affair with this man and there's some tension. GO!"
Obviously, neither film works nearly as well as Spinal Tap. Spinal Tap had the best-of-both-worlds: Well scripted and thought out jokes but with improvised execution that had the illusion of reality and spontaneity. WFG and BIS have the illusion of reality and spontaneity, but few good jokes.
Haven't seen the movie, but maybe the idea came from Roger & Me.
The idea is older than that. Half of all Saturday Night Live sketches feature the joke of a character saying inappropriate or stupid or boorish things. And of course it goes much further back than that, too: It's just a staple of comedy. It was old back in the days of commedia dell'arte.
21078. AceofSpades - 6/29/2001 6:42:41 PM
I assumed that Christopher Guest was the true genius behind Spinal Tap.
But after WFG and BiS, I now doubt this. He's a terrific performer, but I just can't believe any longer that he was the main guy behind Tap. Left to his own devices, he either crafts ridiculous "jokes" ("I literally have two left feet") or no jokes at all.
21079. don s. - 6/29/2001 9:42:52 PM
I think the problem is that Fred Willard used a very-obvious and done-to-death comic trope: the guy who says socially inappropriate things and makes bad jokes. ...
When the character crosses the line -- as Willard does here -- you understand immediately that social-norms have been chucked out the window. Without the tension created by still-operating social norms, crude, boorish, and stupid behavior isn't really funny.
Ace wrote that.
21080. pogie - 6/30/2001 3:44:01 AM
AI would have been better if kubrick had done it. I was already saying 'too obvious' about three times in the first 20 mins of the movie. It had several beautiful little moments, but certain issues with the nature of the ai-boy and a couple of other majorish plot details were either ignored or glossed over or sidestepped, ticking me off. It was a movie that had the potential to be dark and unsettling and beautiful, but spielberg skated past a lot of the most unsettling and interesting bits (damn surprising considering the two plus hours the movie is.) The ending is just bad, analogous to unbreakable's ending in some ways. To kind of spoil this a little, AI brought up some cool stuff dealing with the dark perverse side of even innocent love and then pretty much ignored how all the characters dealt with that love (the ending a case in point.) AI's humans and machines basically were portrayed as being real because of love. The more I think about this movie, the more bummed I am that kubrick or even someone like burton didn't get to do it. Argh.
21081. ElliottRW - 6/30/2001 8:31:16 AM
don s. Message # 21079.
Amazing, isn't it?
21082. MaxMacks - 6/30/2001 3:57:39 PM
anyone seen "Moulin Rogue"?--I hear its about an hour too long.
21083. CalGal - 6/30/2001 4:19:03 PM
There are several discussions about it; page back a bit and you'll find them.
21084. MaxMacks - 7/1/2001 3:23:02 PM
Thanks CG - often I get here after the topic of conversation has changed.
Be nice to have index woodenit?
21085. arkymalarky - 7/1/2001 3:26:15 PM
Mom and Dad rented O Brother Where Art Thou? and loved it. They'd already bought the soundtrack. I'm going over tonight to watch it with the fam.
21086. arkymalarky - 7/2/2001 10:30:51 AM
Well, I really enjoyed O Brother. Don't have time to post at length on it, but it was nice watching it with my parents because there were some neat things in it that they connected to--the governor with the radio show was actually a Texas governor who got popular enough to be governor because of his show and writing "You Are My Sunshine," (I think I have that right) and Mom and Dad remembered the show well, including the flour commercial jingle, which Dad sang for us.
The music was wonderful and very familiar, since my brother and my parents have been into folk music since my brother picked up a banjo in 5th grade, so it was really neat for them to see people they've listened to for years featured in a popular movie.
The casting was great and it was fun figuring the Odyssey references. It's the first major film I've seen George Clooney in and I thought he was wonderful. I like the idea of Ulysses as a verbose, half-intellectual/half-snakeoil salesman, 100% Podunk Southerner as Ulysses. Clooney played it beautifully.
I liked the setting, too. It may have been Mississippi, but a lot of it was similar to familiar parts of TX and AR.
All in all it was very funny with some great scenes, and sillier than I expected, but it also lent a certain mystique to some of the folk music, especially that Alison Krauss/choir (sp) song with the baptism/lotus eaters. I loved that scene. The KKK scene was wonderful too, and though it was funny, the song "Death" (a favorite of my parents') was really haunting.
Thanks for the recommendation, Cal.
21087. glendajean - 7/2/2001 10:40:03 AM
Moulin Rouge
In Director Baz Luhrmann's Strictly Ballroom, he tells the story of a dancer who defies all conventions to give life to the artform of ballroom dancing. While MR is supposedly about bohemians in fin de siecle Paris, desparate in their search for beauty, love and truth, it really appears to be about Luhrmann's need to change the conventions of movie-making, and more specifically, musical movies.
So he takes a traditional story -- in play (Camille), opera (La Traviata and/or La Boheme), or the more recent musical, Rent -- and uses pop music to tell it and move it along. And a couple of times, he tries to use it to heighten the story as if this were an operatic experience.
Filmed on a set Tim Burton would admire, MR at times feels more like PeeWee Herman's Playhouse, particularly an early (and overly long) scene set in the entertainer Satine's elephant-like dressing room, complete with double-takes and vaudvillian knocks and whirls. That was my take on it. It reminded my partner of The Monkees tv show.
To let us know that this was a movie about love, most of the dialogue, which wasn't that much, and the singing were all set to pop music love songs not known for their resonance (unless Elton John and Bernie T's songs mean something to you).
As others have reported, Ewan McGregor can sing, and in fact sings well enough that I wish he would do a real musical.
I did find John Leguizamo's performance as painter Toulouse Lautrec fun, but his character was a clown and not much more.
Nicole Kidman's Satine was the courtesan and nightclub entertainer with a consumptive cough. She does ice and fire quite well.
Jim Broadbent, a British actor seen in Topsy-Turvy, played the nightclub owner. He is spectacular.
21088. CalGal - 7/2/2001 10:43:08 AM
that I wish he would do a real musical.
Hey. It was a real musical. And Singin in the Rain used pop music to move things along, too.
I think there was only one John/Taupin song.
21089. Shannon - 7/2/2001 11:04:55 AM
the governor with the radio show was actually a Texas governor who got popular enough to be governor because of his show and writing "You Are My Sunshine," (I think I have that right)
Close. It was Louisiana governor Jimmie Davis.
21090. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:10:29 AM
Arky, if your parents like the song Death, you may want to get them the soundtrack. I read somewhere that it's the only way you can get that particular artist's version, although I only read that claim, never checked it out.
21091. Adrianne - 7/2/2001 11:10:33 AM
We rented Quills, O Brother, and Traffic this weekend.
My review: Joachim Phoenix is cute but boy, is he a crappy actor. Actually, the same can be said of George Cloony. Benecio Del Toro, on the other hand, is cute and NOT a crappy actor. Catherine Zeta-Jones-Douglas is pretty but, yes, a crappy actress. Geoffrey Rush is not cute, and not a crappy actor. John Turturro is not cute and a really really not-crappy actor.
Unfortunately, I couldn't watch most of Traffic because of the drug scenes.
21092. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:10:39 AM
21093. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:11:14 AM AI continued 21094. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:13:21 AM Actually, the same can be said of George Cloony. 21095. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:15:13 AM The children's story Pinnochio (sp)) is used a lot in this movie as a plot structure, and once others have seen it, I'd like to have conversation about the ending (very 2001 Space Odessy kind of ending). 21096. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:17:28 AM No, there is nothing too violent or creepy. It is the creepiness or violence of Kubrick/Spielburg's vision about life that may be unsettling. Definitely not for little kids, but for anybody over 12 or 13. This is a philosophical movie that is at times quite lyrical. 21097. Adrianne - 7/2/2001 11:17:59 AM 21098. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:22:16 AM Adrianne, I would have described it as a "pouty, tortured soul" kind of crappy. But I didn't think it was his acting more than it was the script and direction. Silly movie. 21099. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:31:25 AM He's just crappy in a kinda Tom Sellecky, hail-fellow-well-met kinda way. 21100. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:34:00 AM There were moments in Perfect Storm where I thought Clooney was doing his best acting and moments when I had to laugh. 21101. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:34:49 AM As I read somewhere else, he doesn't get much traction with his characters 21102. Adrianne - 7/2/2001 11:35:30 AM 21103. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:40:42 AM Ad, 21104. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:41:52 AM He was in "facts of life," the one about the girls who lived with their dorm mother. 21105. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:43:22 AM A movie musical that gives characters traction.... hmmm, that's an interesting question. 21106. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:43:31 AM Yeah, but that's what he did before ER. He was unknown before ER--I think he'd stirred a bit of attention as someone's cute extramarital boyfriend in that stupid show about Sisters the year before. 21107. Adrianne - 7/2/2001 11:43:51 AM 21108. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:44:22 AM Roxane=Roseanne 21109. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:50:49 AM A movie musical that gives characters traction.... hmmm, that's an interesting question. 21110. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:52:31 AM Ad, 21111. Adrianne - 7/2/2001 11:54:33 AM 21112. glendajean - 7/2/2001 11:54:43 AM Well, personally, I can hum "Singing in the Rain." 21113. arkymalarky - 7/2/2001 11:56:15 AM Cal, 21114. arkymalarky - 7/2/2001 11:58:08 AM Shannon, 21115. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:59:05 AM I did think it was an HBO show like WestWing or something like that. 21116. glendajean - 7/2/2001 12:00:35 PM The real Pappy O'Daniel was a Texas governor during the Depression. His band was called the Doughboys and they hawked flour on their radio show. 21117. glendajean - 7/2/2001 12:01:21 PM for a Texas inauguration... 21118. glendajean - 7/2/2001 12:02:35 PM The first time Lyndon Johnson ran for US Senate, he was defeated by Pappy O'Daniels (btw). 21119. Adrianne - 7/2/2001 12:02:40 PM 21120. arkymalarky - 7/2/2001 12:03:51 PM I've never thought Clooney was my type of good looking, but I did in O Brother. Must've been the dirt and/or that amazing pomade. 21121. arkymalarky - 7/2/2001 12:04:37 PM Right, GJ! I couldn't remember the details. 21122. CalGal - 7/2/2001 12:06:53 PM The early stuff, I found boring. In fact, I had to fight falling asleep. 21123. arkymalarky - 7/2/2001 12:07:24 PM Ralph Stanley sang "Death." Sometimes it's a good thing when your parents are a local phone call--don't know that it makes up for the hundreds of times when it's not. ;-) 21124. CalGal - 7/2/2001 12:11:25 PM OK, Sopranos, that one's cable, yes? 21125. CalGal - 7/2/2001 12:12:03 PM (relatively easier, of course) 21126. glendajean - 7/2/2001 12:13:05 PM The only other distinction I would make about MR over other movie musicals is that the songs weren't original to this story and when I think of a musical, I think of the collection of songs that go with it. 21127. CalGal - 7/2/2001 12:13:51 PM It also doesn't include Garner, who is in a class by himself--someone who effortlessly mastered both mediums early on and moved back and forth as he chose. He had no cutover risk because he already had standing in both communities. 21128. glendajean - 7/2/2001 12:14:25 PM The movie musicals that do what MR did, take old songs, are those like the one with Gig Young, Doris Day and Frank Sinatra. 21129. Adrianne - 7/2/2001 12:17:48 PM Huh. 21130. arkymalarky - 7/2/2001 12:21:56 PM A tv soulmate. 21131. CalGal - 7/2/2001 12:24:31 PM MR borrowed heavily, lifting existing music and reusing it in a whole new context. Was there an original song in this movie? 21132. CalGal - 7/2/2001 12:25:24 PM The movie musicals that do what MR did, take old songs, are those like the one with Gig Young, Doris Day and Frank Sinatra. 21133. glendajean - 7/2/2001 12:29:04 PM Cal, you're much more passionate about this than me, so in that case, you are a better gay man than me. 21134. CalGal - 7/2/2001 12:49:00 PM hahahah. 21135. glendajean - 7/2/2001 12:56:33 PM Well, I didn't think Gene Kelly wrote SIR (I probably always thought it was Hal Arlen, and I'm pretty sure that is wrong, too). 21136. CalGal - 7/2/2001 1:12:14 PM True. I have often marvelled at the strong character traction found in Ado Annie and Skye Masterson. 21137. glendajean - 7/2/2001 2:39:06 PM Ado Annie does have strong charactization, cartoonish as it is. Strong enough that she is so vivid. But I rather see a stage actress do it than see it on the screen. That's my personal bias. 21138. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:01:20 PM Calgal, 21139. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:03:53 PM Actually, as I was watching MR, I though of you a number of times. It seems that someone with a broader appreciation of movie musicals would be bound to really get a hoot out of Moulin Rouge. I read back to see you coments on Moulin Rouge and it seems that my insticts were right. 21140. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:08:09 PM 21141. CalGal - 7/2/2001 3:09:15 PM The first time I saw it, with my father, it was in Kansas City--not even a full house. But it was a great audience that got all the references, laughed in all the right places. The second time, in San Francisco, the audience was nearly silent. 21142. CalGal - 7/2/2001 3:13:15 PM It seems that someone with a broader appreciation of movie musicals would be bound to really get a hoot out of Moulin Rouge. 21143. CalGal - 7/2/2001 3:14:14 PM The reviews I have read have all been in the fascinating-but-flawed-with-the-occasional-touch-of-magic mould. 21144. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:16:02 PM I saw a horrible biopic about the wife of Gustav Mahler. It was just ghastly. Ebert gave it half a star, I think. Can't remember the name of the movie. It has some pretentious title, which should have been fair warning of the drivel to come. Only went to see it, because my ambiguous other wanted to see it. 21145. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:17:46 PM Sorry for all of the typos. Is it just me, or does the i-Mac keyboard destroy one's typing skills. 21146. glendajean - 7/2/2001 3:17:57 PM My only regret about AI reviews is that they seem compelled to give all the story away, and it is one movie that would be more enjoyable as an unknown ride. 21147. CalGal - 7/2/2001 3:20:40 PM Has anyone seen The Golden Ball, I think it was called, with Nick Nolte and Jeremy Northam? 21148. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:23:27 PM I read one surly review of AI, which said that Kubrick managed to pull off one of the most astonishing special effects of all time: he managed to bring down a movie from his grave. 21149. glendajean - 7/2/2001 3:30:01 PM Tobouli, I'd like to discuss it with you once you see it. I wrote about it up a littler earlier this morning. 21150. CalGal - 7/2/2001 3:33:18 PM It's kind of interesting that Kubrick got stalled on it and took it to Spielberg, saying, "This is your kind of movie." 21151. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:38:10 PM Well I like a little pessimism in my movies. I have read that one of the strains caused by the putative Spielberg/Kubrick collaboration is that Kubrick tends to see machines as a sinister force, whereas Spielberg sees them as something to project fairy tales and fantasies. Of course, I have not seen AI, so i am not really qualified to comment. Hopefully, i will be able to see it soon and offer a more intelligent commentary. 21152. CalGal - 7/2/2001 3:40:20 PM At least it won't be the cutesy film I was expecting. 21153. Ms. No - 7/2/2001 3:44:54 PM I haven't seen A.I. yet and am not reading much about it for fear of spoilers. 21154. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:47:02 PM 21155. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 3:49:34 PM Ms. No, 21156. JudithAtHome - 7/2/2001 3:51:04 PM MsNo: 21157. CalGal - 7/2/2001 3:55:37 PM I hated City Hall. 21158. TabouliJones - 7/2/2001 4:00:28 PM Yeah, City Hall does suck, and I knew that it would going in. But, I just needed to see it and it put me in a good mood. Actually, I was surprised to see Paul Schraeder and Nicholas Pileggi received writing credits (along with two or three others). Too many cooks ruined what could have been a pretty good stew I guess. 21159. CalGal - 7/2/2001 4:03:11 PM I saw Days of Wine and Roses last night as part of an ongoing Jack Lemmon film festival. It occurs to me that Mancini: Blake Edwards as John Williams: Spielberg. 21160. glendajean - 7/2/2001 4:11:31 PM I read when Kubrick died that he was obsessed with A.I. (I think it was an essay by his collaborator on the script). He tinkered and toiled over it. 21161. Francis Urquhart - 7/2/2001 4:29:36 PM I saw Unbreakable. It wasn't unwatchable, but Ace's previous comments are accurate. M. Night Shymalan (sp) overrelies on mood and crafts scenes that should take little time into long, extended portraits. Bruce Willis (our hero) is not depressed or somber. He's borderline catatonic, which makes the time spent with him a hard row. 21162. LimeGirl - 7/2/2001 4:42:38 PM I really want to see Crazy/Beautiful. Because my husband made me go see AI, he has to go see C/B with me! 21163. glendajean - 7/2/2001 5:19:22 PM Cal -- in reference to your question about The Closet, here's an excerpt from an AP story today: 21164. CalGal - 7/2/2001 5:22:42 PM It's here in the City? I'll have to call up one of my friends. 21165. glendajean - 7/2/2001 5:27:50 PM I must have a heart of stone. Based on what I had read about the movie, I thought it was going to be very dark and pessimistic. 21166. LimeGirl - 7/2/2001 5:45:48 PM I didn't necessarily think it was dark and pessimistic -- as far as impact on society. I just felt like I was watching people make stupid decision after stupid decision. 21167. glendajean - 7/2/2001 6:03:54 PM Kubrick in his movies often made people full of crude and stupid behaviors. Does Spielburg? Some of his movies pit the scared little boy or the innocent against a harsh society, particularly ET. "Close Encounters" pits spirited everybodies against a sceptical world. His movie about the kid (Christian Bale) in Singapore during WWII separated from his family by the Japanese (Empire of the Sun? which I haven't seen and everybody is now calling "underrated). 21168. glendajean - 7/2/2001 6:08:51 PM In some ways, this movie harks to an eschatalogical (end times) theology that says our flesh (our bodies) are vile and diseased, and we must be liberated from them in the last days. What was Calvin's term, depraved? 21169. LimeGirl - 7/2/2001 6:22:53 PM That's what my husband said too, gj, that Kubrick tended to have people making bad decisions. One thing that did strike me about the movie was that none of the robots were whole people -- the nanny robot at the flesh fair just wanted to take care of David, David just wanted to be loved by his mother, Joe just wanted to sleep with women! 21170. Cellar Door - 7/2/2001 7:48:15 PM Are the creatures at the end of the movie "mechas"? I thought they were beings from another galaxy. 21171. ScottLoar - 7/2/2001 8:36:09 PM Message # 21167 There are moments in Empire of the Sun that are truly exhilirating (towards the end of the movie this boy who yearns the freedom of flight suddenly sees an American fighter plane come in low and hard across the P.O.W. camp after a bombing run, so close the boy can see the pilot, so close we can see the details of that plane rip across the years spent as a prisoner and the boy yells out with all his heart "P-51 Mustang! Cadillac of the skies!" and the plane rolls and speeds by and this boy will never be the same) and so touching (he sees what he thinks is the soul passing into heaven)and so true (the schemes of these prisoners, their pettiness, their calculated cruelty and their semblance of dignity and some few's faith in a civil life still remembered are never dramatized to incredibility) making this movie memorable. I say few movies are memorable. 21172. ScottLoar - 7/2/2001 8:42:38 PM The boy was separated from his parents in Hong Kong, not Singapore. I've read true accounts similar to some of the scenes from that movie, as when the boy climbs into the truck full of prisoners to point and scream the way, anything than to be left behind, and as when he returns lost to his parent's home, confused by the stillness of what he sees - naked footprints in the spilled face powder, the messed bed, the casual destruction throughout. 21173. Shannon - 7/2/2001 10:48:54 PM I guess one fat Southern politician in a white hat and coat looks like another to me. 21174. CalGal - 7/2/2001 10:52:36 PM Ha. 21175. Shannon - 7/2/2001 11:02:59 PM Yes, I think it was. He was Sela Ward's boyfriend. Possibly husband? 21176. CalGal - 7/2/2001 11:07:01 PM I remember a whiff of impropriety about it. But I never watched the show; the only fifteen minutes I ever saw was when I stopped flipping channels long enough to wonder who that really cute guy was. 21177. glendajean - 7/3/2001 10:43:15 AM Shannon, he also wrote "I've got a Mansion," a gospel song that was popular many years ago. 21178. JudithAtHome - 7/3/2001 10:47:09 AM You won't regret renting it, GJ...fantastic movie. 21179. ScottLoar - 7/3/2001 11:38:51 AM Glendajean, I'm glad Message # 21171 wasn't wasted. You be the judge of whether or not I'm accurate; I'd be interested in your opinion. 21180. glendajean - 7/3/2001 12:10:13 PM Your message wasn't wasted at all and in fact confirmed that I want to see the film. 21181. arkymalarky - 7/3/2001 12:46:47 PM Evidently I got two governor stories mixed up. 21182. RosettaStone - 7/3/2001 12:48:58 PM Evidently 21183. webfeet - 7/3/2001 1:49:34 PM I am dying to see The Closet, if only for Thierry Larmite, who also starred in Diner des Cons (The DInner Game) another french film that did really well in the US. 21184. ButterfieldSwire - 7/3/2001 2:09:51 PM CalGal- 21185. glendajean - 7/3/2001 2:21:18 PM I want to see the The Closet, too, but it will be awhile before it makes its way to the hinterlands. 21186. CalGal - 7/3/2001 3:25:40 PM Buttersfield, 21187. ScottLoar - 7/3/2001 3:35:48 PM Hank's partner in that highly-rated TV show did not jump to film even though by his talent as shown on that show was equal or superior to Hanks. I always thought him better than Hanks. 21188. CalGal - 7/3/2001 3:39:03 PM Peter Scolari. I liked him a lot, too. He went on to Newhart--in fact, he became a TV star again about the same time Hanks made Splash. He works pretty steadily, but has never been as well known as he was throughout the 80s. 21189. glendajean - 7/3/2001 3:40:46 PM Peter Scolari? He was wonderful in Newhart but have seen little of him since. He was certainly a better comedian than Hanks. What little I remember of Busom Buddies was that he was the better of the two. 21190. glendajean - 7/3/2001 3:40:53 PM Peter Scolari? He was wonderful in Newhart but have seen little of him since. He was certainly a better comedian than Hanks. What little I remember of Busom Buddies was that he was the better of the two. 21191. glendajean - 7/3/2001 3:41:26 PM oops --double x-post on my part 21192. JudithAtHome - 7/3/2001 3:42:51 PM But Hanks timing was better in that show... 21193. JudithAtHome - 7/3/2001 3:43:26 PM HA! Speaking of timing! 21194. Ms. No - 7/3/2001 3:43:53 PM Scott, 21195. glendajean - 7/3/2001 3:55:47 PM Some actors career goes in the opposite direction. David Hyde Pearce had bit roles in movies, had a role in a short-lived series that starred John Forsyth as a Senator (was it Forsyth?), and then made his mark in Frasier. He certainly deserves credit for the success of the show, and is particularly adept at physical comedy (think of the parrot scene with the parrot attached to his head who digs his claws everytime the doorbell rings). 21196. Ms. No - 7/3/2001 3:59:34 PM DHP is getting good reviews in Six Dancing Lessons in Six Days right now, isn't he? 21197. glendajean - 7/3/2001 4:10:20 PM I haven't heard of that movie/play? 21198. Cellar Door - 7/3/2001 4:15:12 PM It's a play that he's doing with Uta Hagen. 21199. glendajean - 7/3/2001 4:18:04 PM Ah, a stretch. 21200. CalGal - 7/3/2001 4:18:13 PM David Hyde Pierce, like Mahoney, is someone who moves back and forth between both mediums pretty effortlessly. Holland Taylor, Wendy Malick, and practically the entire West Wing cast (save Sheen and Lowe) are much the same. 21201. Cellar Door - 7/3/2001 6:38:52 PM And except for Sheen and Lowe, all the people you've mentioned are gay! 21202. LadyChaos - 7/3/2001 11:19:08 PM I went out and saw "A.I.", today. Has there already been a discussion of it? Haley Joe Osment carries this film on his back, without a doubt. It struck me that the film would have worked much better as a claustrophobic drama between David and the family -- more "The Shining" than "2001" or "E.T." If Spielberg had had the guts to keep the story focused on the family scenario throughout, rather than breaking away into episodic wanderings and ponderances, it might have developed into something more poignant. But that's just me talking. The film is troubling as it is, and perhaps that's the point. If we could pack a time capsule with one, pure and simple human emotion to send to beings in the future (or the outer cosmos?), it would probably be the deep longing of a child for his/her parents' love. That a robot could be the bearer of this message is a deeply ambiguous and difficult problem to resolve in one's mind. And for that reason, maybe the film isn't the failure that the critics are making it out to be. 21203. CalGal - 7/4/2001 2:51:07 PM If you haven't seen 1776 yet, the next five days offers you the opportunity. The Sherman Edwards play is converted in whole (save one song) to film, with most of the Broadway stars along for the ride. 21204. glendajean - 7/5/2001 11:06:04 AM I liked that movie. I have the CD for the fairly recent Broadway revival. 21205. CalGal - 7/5/2001 12:49:20 PM Really? Who was in the revival? 21206. glendajean - 7/5/2001 2:41:27 PM Here's a cast link for the original musical production, the movie and the 1997 Broadway revival. 21207. CalGal - 7/5/2001 3:17:03 PM Brent Spiner! Awesome. Is he any good? 21208. glendajean - 7/5/2001 3:56:42 PM I think the CD is awfully good, very similar sounding to my memory of the movie. 1776 (the revival) was nominated for a very few Tonys, but lost out to Cabaret (the revival). 21209. CalGal - 7/5/2001 4:32:16 PM I'll have to check out the CD. 21210. christipeters - 7/5/2001 5:22:38 PM I wanted to take LD and her friends to see MR last weekend, but they were all dead set against it (mostly, I think because they hadn't seen trailers for it). So we saw Evolution which was sorta cute, but predictable. 21211. glendajean - 7/5/2001 5:27:39 PM The Indianapolis audience was very quiet when I saw it, but there were only 6 of us in the theater. 21212. CalGal - 7/5/2001 5:30:11 PM Christi, let me know what you think of it. But remember that using pop songs is what all Hollywood musicals did. (g) Also, it's not a dancing musical, but a singing one. 21213. christipeters - 7/5/2001 5:38:47 PM CalGal - yeah, but I already knew that. I didn't pipe up during the discussion because what I would have said was already being said. If I like MR, it probably won't break my heart to see it again with LD. &:o) 21214. glendajean - 7/5/2001 5:42:35 PM Cal -- Yes, I think having an appreciative, large audience enhances watching movies. OTH, I prefer to watch them in empty theaters. No lines, I can sit far enough from yackers, hummers and snorers. Easy in and out. Get them over and still ahve time to run errands, fix a meal or garden. 21215. CalGal - 7/5/2001 5:46:17 PM yeah, but I already knew that. I didn't pipe up during the discussion because what I would have 21216. glendajean - 7/5/2001 5:51:08 PM Next up on the movie list: Cats and Dogs and Legally Blonde. 21217. christipeters - 7/5/2001 6:03:03 PM Oh YEAH! LD and I both want to see Cats and Dogs. 21218. Jamie R - 7/5/2001 6:08:43 PM Glendajean, I think we may have seen the same showing of MR. 21219. glendajean - 7/5/2001 6:13:56 PM The only reason that I want to see Legally Blonde is because Reese Witherspoon is in it. I was smitten by her in Election, one of my favorite movies. 21220. glendajean - 7/5/2001 6:14:26 PM Jamie R -- do you live in Indy? 21221. CalGal - 7/5/2001 6:54:33 PM Yes, don't you remember? He was one of the people I was looking forward to meeting when I got to Indy: you, Ase, and Jamie. 21222. JudithAtHome - 7/5/2001 7:59:24 PM Keoni and I like early shows because we've had bad experiences with audiences...people in theatres here are rude and talk, heckle, act like idiots. Keoni has this "official voice" and doesn't hesitate to use it when people are talking loudly during a movie. He once was applauded by all the people around us when he told these 2 teenagers to be quiet. 21223. Jamie R - 7/6/2001 10:06:46 AM I do think audience reaction adds to some movies, but it's always a risky proposition for me. If the audience is full of rude idiots it's very hard for me to tune them out. 21224. Jamie R - 7/6/2001 10:07:27 AM Whoops, sorry 'bout all that white space. 21225. CalGal - 7/6/2001 10:28:10 AM I had to get up and move it was so excruciating. 21226. christipeters - 7/6/2001 1:04:24 PM While I was visiting at Judith and Keoni's place, The Godfather was showing on TV. I didn't see the beginning, but was intrigued by what parts I did see. 21227. JudithAtHome - 7/6/2001 1:16:32 PM Keoni managed to convert me enough that I am going to go out and rent the 3 Godfather movies, 21228. christipeters - 7/6/2001 1:23:09 PM chuckle 21229. christipeters - 7/6/2001 1:30:25 PM I'm conflicted on my weekend movie plans. I had wanted to go to my favorite $2 theatre to see Moulin Rouge and A.I.. However, it is not showing MR. 21230. Frankster - 7/6/2001 7:04:50 PM There is an awful lot of director-speak that goes on in here frequently when rating movies, so here's a site that might interest some of you "directors" who are temporarily making a living in other fields. I saw it this morning on the KTLA Morning News and immediately thought of you guys in here. Hey, Spike Lee even gave the site a rave review. 21231. LimeGirl - 7/6/2001 10:28:31 PM We took the girls to see Cats and Dogs today. Neither of us were impressed. The girls seemed to like it though. Husband said that it was the worst movie he'd seen ever. I wouldn't go that far, but it just didn't seem like it ever went anywhere, and I kept waiting for something to happen, but nothing really did. 21232. Jamie R - 7/7/2001 8:47:47 AM I hope I disagree. I'll be very sad if Jeff Goldblum becomes an Officer Ugh sticker for movies. After Lost World and Independence Day I'm starting to wonder. 21233. joezan - 7/7/2001 9:56:01 AM Jeff Goldblum's one-dimensional character - which he totes around from film-to-film like a goiter is old, old, old. 21234. Francis Urquhart - 7/7/2001 10:23:29 AM Billy Elliot 21235. CalGal - 7/7/2001 11:10:48 AM The kid was really amazing in that movie. I thought the story sold Julie Walters character short in the end, which was too bad. 21236. Francis Urquhart - 7/7/2001 11:13:44 AM Cal 21237. Jamie R - 7/7/2001 6:24:38 PM Jeff Goldblum did a good turn as the devil in Mr. Frost. That wasn't quite to his now familliar type. I can't remember if Hideaway was because the movie was a totally unmemorable piece of crap. 21238. Francis Urquhart - 7/7/2001 6:41:34 PM I saw Sexy Beast. I'll write more on it later (I am off to dinner shortly), but if you haven't made up you mind about a film for the evening, go see this one. Best film of the year. I liken it, so you can get a quick sense, to Steven Soderbergh's The Limey. 21239. CalGal - 7/7/2001 6:42:15 PM I can't even remember many things that he's been in, apart from his three turns on the money maker list (unadjusted for inflation). 21240. Jean B. - 7/8/2001 12:01:51 AM May I interrupt for a quick question? We were watching CSpan today; there was an interview with Tom Brokaw & Clint Eastwood. Eastwood mentioned that one of his earlier movies was an English adaptation of Yojimbo. We've seen very few Eastwood movies, but are curious -- is "Hang 'em High" the Yojimbo takeoff? If not, which is it? We'd like to see it. 21241. AceofSpades - 7/8/2001 12:05:00 AM 21242. JudithAtHome - 7/8/2001 12:07:07 AM A Fistful Of Dollars is the spaghetti western you are looking for... 21243. JudithAtHome - 7/8/2001 12:07:33 AM x-post.... 21244. AceofSpades - 7/8/2001 12:07:45 AM 21245. Jean B. - 7/8/2001 12:46:58 AM Many Many Thanks! We'll rent it soon. 21246. AceofSpades - 7/8/2001 12:49:11 AM Adaptations 21247. AceofSpades - 7/8/2001 12:50:05 AM Hammett's Continental Op was not merely the spiritual father of Phillip Marlowe, Mike Hammer, and so many other hard-boiled gumshoes. The ever-anonymous Operative is the protagonist of Hammett's novel Red Harvest which, as the inspiration for Akira Kurosawa's film Yojimbo and its Western remake A Fist Full of Dollars, makes him the original "Man Without A Name." --GS 21248. AceofSpades - 7/8/2001 12:51:38 AM Trans-Cultural Influence At Its Best 21249. Jamie R - 7/8/2001 12:55:17 AM I just finished doing some work on the computer with The Piano on in the background. I confess I wasn't paying too much attention to it, just looking up now and then to see what all the noise was about. So it may be a very good movie in its own right. But... 21250. Jean B. - 7/8/2001 2:21:52 AM Ace, I am impressed! 21251. CalGal - 7/8/2001 2:13:53 PM Jamie, 21252. Toenails - 7/8/2001 10:58:45 PM 21253. christipeters - 7/9/2001 1:16:05 PM Well, I decided to go to the big luxurious multiplex, see both Moulin Rouge and A.I. and just skip the snacks as a bare nod to my budget. 21254. rubberducky - 7/9/2001 1:57:19 PM went to see A.I. yesterday. what can i say that hasn't been said here? 21255. CalGal - 7/9/2001 4:08:45 PM Both films--Moulin Rouge and AI--have been getting very extreme responses. 21256. LimeGirl - 7/9/2001 4:29:47 PM Joe Gigolo was my favorite part of AI! My problem with the plot was mostly that there were so many illogical decisions that could have been easily avoided. Like the mother leaving the boy in the woods -- why on earth would she do that, if she wants to save his feelings, being abandoned by her is the absolutely worst thing she can do. Could have been fixed by taking him back to the company and then letting him escape, if they wanted to see what he could do, and there were many things like that, that seem like they just weren't thought through. 21257. CalGal - 7/9/2001 4:36:41 PM I hear Bruce Davison is good, and I've always loved him. (he's the dad) 21258. Ms. No - 7/9/2001 5:09:37 PM LimeGirl, 21259. glendajean - 7/9/2001 6:53:01 PM Humans are flawed, destined for extinction. Their few redeeming qualities will have to live on in machines. 21260. Ms. No - 7/9/2001 7:12:12 PM A.I. 21261. Ms. No - 7/9/2001 7:13:03 PM A.I. cont. 21262. JudithAtHome - 7/9/2001 7:18:37 PM Nice job in reviewing, MsNO... 21263. CalGal - 7/9/2001 7:37:32 PM I wonder if we could keep tabs quickly on current films--I need to get Mote Movies updated, but for now, let's try Yea, Nay, or Eh (leave off if you haven't seen). 21264. CalGal - 7/9/2001 7:39:30 PM My takes thus far: 21265. MaxMacks - 7/9/2001 7:44:21 PM Cal G...most of those films I have not even heard of and I live in movie buff big time town. 21266. LimeGirl - 7/9/2001 8:00:29 PM A.I. Eh 21267. MaxMacks - 7/9/2001 8:12:58 PM Thanks for tip LG....My best flick recently was 21268. LimeGirl - 7/9/2001 8:32:04 PM I have heard other people say that they loved Cats & Dogs, but for me, it seemed long and boring. 21269. Toenails - 7/9/2001 8:45:45 PM 21270. Ms. No - 7/10/2001 12:04:51 AM A.I. - BIG YAY! 21271. rubberducky - 7/10/2001 8:56:20 AM A.I. - BIG NAY! 21272. glendajean - 7/10/2001 10:34:23 AM A.I. Yay 21273. christipeters - 7/10/2001 11:30:13 AM A.I. - YAY! 21274. rubberducky - 7/10/2001 11:45:42 AM Shrek is on my rental list. 21275. christipeters - 7/10/2001 12:06:14 PM I, too, am looking forward to Final Fantasy but I think I'll leave LD at home. I'm the sci-fi buff in the house. Like many girls in their early teens, LD is into relationship movies (which mostly bore me). I'm also looking forward to the effects on Final Fantasy. 21276. JudithAtHome - 7/10/2001 12:12:52 PM Pootie Tang stars Chris Rock.... 21277. christipeters - 7/10/2001 12:24:40 PM Thanks Judith. 21278. JudithAtHome - 7/10/2001 12:29:22 PM Sorry to be so redundant about the rating.... 21279. LimeGirl - 7/10/2001 12:49:21 PM It is PG-13. I was trying to decide if it was too much for the girls, or if I could spare my husband seeing it by taking them with me. Let me know what LD thinks of it! 21280. christipeters - 7/10/2001 12:53:18 PM Sure thing, Lime Girl. I'll be watching it on Saturday with three 13-yr-olds and one 14-yr-old, all girls, in tow. I will poll them for opinions. 21281. christipeters - 7/10/2001 4:46:42 PM Lime Girl - I won't be able to give you reactions to Legally Blonde for awhile yet, after all. 21282. Uzmakk - 7/11/2001 7:21:56 PM Saw Laura Croft. I have no time for that shit. 21283. Cellar Door - 7/12/2001 8:52:35 AM Cellar Door gos to Outfest 2001 21284. christipeters - 7/12/2001 2:09:55 PM Lime Girl - OK, I just checked the same damn online site for the same damn theater for the same damn day I did earlier this week. LD and friends decided they'd like to see Cats and Dogs, which I remembered was showing there and I needed times. Now it says that Legally Blonde IS showing this Saturday. 21285. LimeGirl - 7/12/2001 3:27:11 PM I had that issue with Cats and Dogs -- when I checked the listings a few days before it was opening, for opening day, it was playing almost nowhere, then a couple of days later, the listing showed it playing everywhere! Very annoying. 21286. Jamie R - 7/13/2001 9:30:52 AM Final Fantasy- eh. 21287. mgleason - 7/13/2001 9:39:58 AM It doesn't sound as though they simulated any of those things at all, Jamie, more like they recreated them - sort of like inventing synthetic B.O. 21288. rubberducky - 7/13/2001 10:01:58 AM that stinks. Ripley heard much of the same, so we've downgraded Final Fantasy to 'matinee' status. 21289. Jamie R - 7/13/2001 10:02:01 AM Hm, seguences = sequences. 21290. CalGal - 7/13/2001 2:01:19 PM Jamie, 21291. CalGal - 7/13/2001 2:02:58 PM I've read three good reviews for The Score; anyone seen a negative one? From what I understand, it is a good heist film. Reviews for Legally Blonde appear to be solid--it seems to be a screwball comedy of sorts? 21292. LimeGirl - 7/13/2001 2:22:09 PM My husband liked seeing the graphics in Final Fantasy. He was impressed with the hair, and the scenes where characters touched each other, especially a kiss, I think he said. I don't think the story made much of an impact on him. 21293. Jamie R - 7/13/2001 2:25:07 PM Calgal, I loved Moulin Rouge. I saw it twice the first night I saw it, and a third time later that same week. I'm hoping to see it at least one more time before it disappears, but it's only running in matinees in Indy now. 21294. CalGal - 7/13/2001 2:43:35 PM Oh, good, another fan(atic). I wonder what it is that draws some people in and leaves others out. I'm figuring it must be something at an emotional level (as well as the music, obviously). What did you think of the performances, music, and so on? 21295. CalGal - 7/13/2001 2:44:14 PM Did you do the summer movie checklist, Jamie? 21296. christipeters - 7/13/2001 2:58:34 PM CalGal - As someone who didn't like Moulin Rouge, I think it is that I didn't find anything to like about the characters in addition to finding the frenetic cutting annoying. 21297. CalGal - 7/13/2001 3:04:44 PM Christi, 21298. CalGal - 7/13/2001 3:05:27 PM LaV is just outstandingly gruesome and funny at the same time. The waiters just flat out kill me any time I stop laughing at the Duke and Harold. 21299. christipeters - 7/13/2001 3:17:04 PM CalGal - I am NOT holding MR to a different standard. I am a fan of musicals. By musical standards, I couldn't find anything to like about any of the characters in MR. 21300. CalGal - 7/13/2001 3:23:40 PM By musical standards, I couldn't find anything to like about any of the characters in MR. 21301. Laura C - 7/13/2001 3:30:15 PM Lena Lamont is appealing? 21302. CalGal - 7/13/2001 3:33:00 PM There really aren't that many great musical characters, particularly when you move outside of Broadway. 21303. Jamie R - 7/13/2001 3:34:51 PM Primarily it was the look of the movie that got to me. I loved the music in the theater (connected to all the visuals) but just like it OK on the CD. 21304. CalGal - 7/13/2001 3:40:14 PM It's totally ridiculous until he hits the opening of My Song (or whatever it's called.) It completely cuts through her act and she looks up very startled and completely defenseless. That expression just kills me, every time. 21305. CalGal - 7/13/2001 3:41:52 PM Especially at the end when the Duke is stalking the guy on the table and making those little pawing gestures at the air. 21306. christipeters - 7/13/2001 3:42:30 PM CalGal - Yeah but I wasn't referring to whether or not they were well-defined. Frankly, I don't expect musical characters to be well-defined. I didn't like them. Couldn't work up much sympathy or interest in their lives at all. So, that leaves me with - did I like the costumes, music, sets, the look of the movie, because I am willing to settle for a visual feast and there the frenetic cutting interfered too much for me to truly enjoy that. Still, like I said, I didn't hate the movie, as there were sections without the frantic cutting that let my eyes enjoy the color, and there were some really cute bits like the LaV one. 21307. CalGal - 7/13/2001 3:50:04 PM Christi, 21308. christipeters - 7/13/2001 5:42:08 PM CalGal - Well, (she says grumpily) I agree with you on what was the heart of the movie and I liked that scene. 21309. Francis Urquhart - 7/15/2001 10:16:01 AM The Score 21310. Francis Urquhart - 7/15/2001 10:41:07 AM Memorandum 21311. CalGal - 7/15/2001 1:18:37 PM I liked it more than that, although it's definitely a movie that plays better when you see it with popcorn and an audience. I agree that Costner is terrible and skews the movie. Greenwood is more than decent, though, and I don't see Culp's Bobby as borderline stupid. 21312. Erinys - 7/15/2001 3:58:13 PM I had hoped Moulin Rouge was playing at our local theatre last night, but my husband and I saw Dangerously Blonde instead. We were there, it was the only one starting that looked good - and it was! Very funny! I really liked Reese Witherspoon in Election, and it was another prissy role like that. 21313. christipeters - 7/16/2001 9:52:44 AM Lime Girl - The girls and I saw Legally Blonde on Saturday. They loved it and, in spite of not expecting to, I liked it, too. It is not great cinema, but it IS a well-done little movie. It sent the "don't judge by appearances" and "guys like that aren't worth keeping" messages quite well and was fun to watch, too. 21314. rubberducky - 7/16/2001 11:08:40 AM took in Final Fantasy over the weekend. it was simply stunning to look at. 21315. CalGal - 7/16/2001 12:05:10 PM Legally Blonde won the weekend, surprising everyone who expected Final Fantasy to kick ass. The Score was in second place, doing much better than their producers had hoped (19 instead of 18 mill). 21316. rubberducky - 7/16/2001 12:19:17 PM i think the reviews for Final Fantasy are the reason. 21317. vw - 7/16/2001 12:29:43 PM When Andrew Lloyd Weber’s 1973 movie release of the controversial rock opera Jesus Christ Superstar hit the movie theaters I was in heaven. I had already seen the Broadway production (which prior to Cats! held the record for longest running show) and was eager to see if the film managed to upset my generations “Pharisees” as thoroughly as the stage production had. 21318. vw - 7/16/2001 12:30:09 PM Based on the 1998 London production, director Gale Edwards attempts to freshen and up-date the story. Instead all she managed to do was introduce a whining angst ridden tone, similar to everything I hated about Rent, that is so popular with the Gen X viewer. 21319. vw - 7/16/2001 12:30:16 PM Maya Days sings the part of Mary Magdalene with a graceful conviction; it is unfortunate that the role is not meatier. Carter does a passable job at singing Christ, but he comes no where close to being able to produce the unearthly anguish demonstrated by Neely’s original performance. Instead Carter tries to make up for it by twisted facial expressions, which often left me wondering if Jesus had a bad case of stomach cramps. 21320. CalGal - 7/16/2001 12:33:11 PM That's the third good review I've read of JCSS revival here (indy and Christi were the other two), and again reminds me that the original is surprisingly solid, given that it's such a 70s movie. 21321. vw - 7/16/2001 12:34:02 PM good review? I thought it sucked!!! 21322. CalGal - 7/16/2001 12:35:45 PM Well written review. 21323. vw - 7/16/2001 12:40:53 PM Oh (duh) here you are telling me I did a good job and I go and misunderstnad you. Opps! and Thanks! 21324. CalGal - 7/16/2001 5:09:04 PM I Don't Get Ben Affleck 21325. OhioSTOPAS - 7/16/2001 5:27:10 PM It's hard to believe a woman would not find Ben Affleck handsome. He looks like a pretty good-looking guy to me. 21326. CalGal - 7/16/2001 5:52:40 PM Still meandering through Time online, I found this nice little nugget in an Emmy wrapup: 21327. glendajean - 7/17/2001 10:37:29 AM I saw the last half of Conspiracy and agree. It was incredibly compelling, and scarily believable in showing how a bureaucratic meeting determined the fate of millions of people. 21328. CalGal - 7/17/2001 10:43:48 AM GJ, 21329. glendajean - 7/17/2001 10:45:31 AM I saw the DVD for Topsy-Turvey. I may have to have it just for the 21330. CalGal - 7/17/2001 10:49:47 AM Did you notice that the "Short Sharp Shock" rehearsal is one uninterrupted take? No cuts, no closeups, just the four guys playing, singing, and talking. I'd buy the DVD for that scene alone. 21331. CalGal - 7/17/2001 10:50:18 AM 21332. glendajean - 7/17/2001 10:51:52 AM Sorry about the toys. 21333. Toenails - 7/18/2001 9:08:39 AM Conspiracy depicted a phenomenon of human relations that I've witnessed in a frighteningly similar context in the 50's and 60's, in the Southern U.S. -- the tendency to go with the flow when the Crazies are spouting their racist, hate-filled venom. 21334. CalGal - 7/18/2001 11:24:50 AM There are few things more difficult to do than stand up to what at least seems to be the dominant, almost-universally held viewpoint of one's peers. 21335. Indiana Jones - 7/18/2001 12:49:54 PM Saw Jules and Jim and have to say this is one of the "biggies" that I just don't get. Many French films seem to fall into this category: highly rated but unappreciated by moi. 21336. CalGal - 7/18/2001 12:58:00 PM It is probably an overstatement to say that most French films suck. But the disconnect between my tastes and "great" French films spans a galaxy or two. 21337. Indiana Jones - 7/18/2001 1:04:15 PM I liked Diabolique too. Haven't seen the other two--or I may have seen Beauty and the Beast a long time ago and just don't remember it. 21338. CalGal - 7/18/2001 1:09:20 PM It's true, you can't predict what will happen in French films. It is also true that in most cases I don't give enough of a damn to bother trying. 21339. Jenerator - 7/18/2001 1:15:01 PM I enjoy French films. I watched Tout Les Matins Du Monde the other day starring Webfeet's honey Gerard Depardieu. 21340. DanDillon - 7/18/2001 1:17:06 PM Jen said penis. 21341. CalGal - 7/18/2001 1:19:21 PM Oh, I'm just enjoying playing ugly American. There are other good French films. But the sensibilities of the French are so alien that it's safe to assume I will dislike it. Then if I enjoy it, so much the better. 21342. Jamie R - 7/18/2001 1:40:26 PM Beauty and the Beast, the black and white Cocteau movie? I liked that very much. I also like Betty Blue. Otherwise if something can be classified as either an art movie or an "intellectual" movie it's 9 - 1 I'm going to hate hate hate it, and I'm guessing that's mostly the kind of foreign film that ends up on the rental shelves. 21343. Ms. No - 7/18/2001 1:40:52 PM Favorite French Films off the top of my head: 21344. Indiana Jones - 7/18/2001 1:43:17 PM I also like Betty Blue. 21345. CalGal - 7/18/2001 1:44:57 PM Jamie, 21346. Indiana Jones - 7/18/2001 1:47:48 PM Good Betty Blue link, says 1986 21347. Ms. No - 7/18/2001 1:50:04 PM Jamie, 21348. JudithAtHome - 7/18/2001 1:53:54 PM I probably like more French film than I dislike...I liked: 21349. CalGal - 7/18/2001 2:03:32 PM Judith's list incorporates almost all of the films that encapsulates why I hate French movies. 21350. Jamie R - 7/18/2001 2:04:07 PM But hey, all the more reason to get a DVD. 21351. JudithAtHome - 7/18/2001 2:05:51 PM Cal, have you seen Bolero? 21352. CalGal - 7/18/2001 2:06:10 PM Jamie, 21353. Jamie R - 7/18/2001 2:10:10 PM Does The City of Lost Children count as a French film? (I seem to recall subtitles.) That was by the guy who went on to do Alien resurrection, right? (And doesn't he wish that one could quietly slip off of his resume.) 21354. CalGal - 7/18/2001 2:11:02 PM Judith, 21355. JudithAtHome - 7/18/2001 2:12:22 PM Ha...might as well include The 400 Blows! 21356. Ms. No - 7/18/2001 2:13:36 PM I loved the City of Lost Children and it's certainly listed as a French film. I didn't immediately think of it because visually it brings to mind Terry Gilliam and I can rarely think of him without thinking of Monty Python. 21357. JudithAtHome - 7/18/2001 2:16:34 PM I liked that one, too....and Dark City, which should have been French. 21358. glendajean - 7/18/2001 2:18:16 PM The only French movie that I hated was the Delicatessen. I think Webfoot recently spoke in favor of it. It's about a world where there isn't much meat and this one shop sells human meat. 21359. CalGal - 7/18/2001 2:20:24 PM Judith, 21360. JudithAtHome - 7/18/2001 2:23:25 PM I loved Diva! And the other one you mentioned, GJ... 21361. ElliottRW - 7/18/2001 10:06:10 PM The 400 Blows 21362. OhioSTOPAS - 7/18/2001 10:26:27 PM Just saw Jurassic Park III. Liked it. The dinosaurs were great - more realistic than ever - and I was disappointed when it ended. 21363. vw - 7/18/2001 10:29:09 PM That's good news because I was ready to swear off anything that started with Jurassic after the atrocity that was movie #2. 21364. OhioSTOPAS - 7/18/2001 10:31:36 PM I've only read one review so far, in today's Columbus Dispatch. The reviewer was negative, complaining the movie consisted too much of flesh-eating reptiles chasing humans. 21365. vw - 7/18/2001 10:34:04 PM (snerk) At the very least it generated some cool new Dino programs on Discovery Channel ... I'm an addict. 21366. CalGal - 7/19/2001 12:43:03 AM Spawn loved it. Anthony Lane wrote a very amusing review that you shouldn't miss, and Ebert spoke well of it, too. 21367. Shannon - 7/19/2001 9:12:04 AM I finally got to see O Brother, Where Art Thou. Very good. I was impressed with Clooney's performance--come to think of it, I don't think I've seen him in any movies before this. 21368. Cellar Door - 7/19/2001 9:20:16 AM French films arethe greatest: 21369. Cellar Door - 7/19/2001 7:22:05 PM 21370. Jamie R - 7/20/2001 10:05:50 AM Jurassic Park 3- This is a movie that wants to get the job done and then get you back home in time to catch Will and Grace. It delivers. 21371. ScottLoar - 7/20/2001 10:22:52 AM I saw Himalaya last night at a theatre specializing in arts-fartsy films and Himalaya surely qualifies. The movie begins as the body of the next-to-be chieftain is brought in on yak's back, followed by the beautiful widown grieving, the clever young son now lost and looking for a father figure, and the patriarch well past retirement of the chieftancy acccusing his son's best friend of the death. Hm, hm, hm. Big problem. The villagers need go down the mountain to trade their salt carried on yaks' backs for the food they'll need to get through the winter, but who's to lead the caravan? The rising new star (dead man's best friend) or the old man and his proven ways? So a reluctant protagonist is set against the old antagonist and two caravans make their way down the mountain on yaks' backs. I'll let y'all figure out the story. 21372. ScottLoar - 7/20/2001 10:23:34 AM Yes, the dialogue is Tibetan but relieved by subtitles. 21373. rubberducky - 7/20/2001 11:16:38 AM i also got in a viewing of Jurassic Park III last night. 21374. Jamie R - 7/20/2001 11:50:45 AM Sorry, my post didn't make it clear that this is indeed an incredibly stupid movie. Rubberducky is dead on right about that. 21375. LimeGirl - 7/20/2001 11:53:48 AM Thanks Christi! I think we're going to go see it this afternoon. 21376. rubberducky - 7/20/2001 12:01:37 PM *** J Park III spoilers*** 21377. Jamie R - 7/20/2001 12:17:37 PM I really can't disagree with most of that. Maybe I'll have to ponder a bit more why I left this movie feeling kinda bouncy and left Lost World vastly irritated. Somehow I found the awfulness of this movie endearing. 21378. rubberducky - 7/20/2001 12:20:18 PM Maybe I'll have to ponder a bit more why I left this movie feeling kinda bouncy... 21379. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 12:41:50 PM Wasn't there a time in history when parents who could not shut their children up actually removed them from the scene, rather than inflicting said noisiness on everyone else? 21380. CalGal - 7/20/2001 2:46:07 PM If you think kiddie movie matinees weren't loud and rambunctious 25 years ago you weren't going. 21381. Jamie R - 7/20/2001 3:03:04 PM Kiddie matinees are of course a whole different world in terms of expectations of behavior. 21382. rubberducky - 7/20/2001 3:16:56 PM imo, people in general are ruder, so i don't see it difficult to think that cinema behavior also has become ruder as well. 21383. janjon - 7/20/2001 3:19:45 PM rd has a point. Going to a movie in Manhattan can be a trying experience. Especially in the "arty" theaters and when the audience is more middle aged or even elderly than not. In addition to the normal types of rude behavior such as talking, you get many people getting up several times during a movie (bathroom trips I suppose). You also get more than one case of snoring. 21384. CalGal - 7/20/2001 3:27:32 PM I think there are certain populations of moviegoers who have increased, becoming a larger percentage of the whole. 21385. CalGal - 7/20/2001 3:33:35 PM Kevin Smith on Man For all Seasons 21386. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 3:35:30 PM I've been going to movies since I was 12 and I think Jamie is correct about people being more used to talking over videos as contributing to rudeness in theaters; it's a different dynamic than talking while TV is on. Lots of people wait for ads to come on during TV programs whereas with a video, you can always run it back if you just have to talk during it. 21387. CalGal - 7/20/2001 3:38:02 PM Are you saying that every single movie you go to now has a noisy, rude audience? 21388. rubberducky - 7/20/2001 3:40:11 PM CG: 21389. CalGal - 7/20/2001 3:41:33 PM Ducky--yeah, but it's free. 21390. glendajean - 7/20/2001 3:44:11 PM I agree with Judith, which is one reason why I stick to early, barely attended matinees. 21391. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 3:47:28 PM No, I'm not saying that because I usually go to fairly empty theaters. But the FEW crowded, crammed theaters I've been to have been relatively full of people who think nothing of talking to their friends in a normal tone of voice or who bring children to inappropiate films and let them run wild or bring infants and let them cry throughout the film til someone like my friend Jamie yelled out "Lose the kid!" during Titanic and the audience broke into applause... 21392. rubberducky - 7/20/2001 3:50:07 PM oh yeah... 21393. CalGal - 7/20/2001 3:59:13 PM Judith, 21394. OhioSTOPAS - 7/20/2001 3:59:54 PM A dissent: Maybe I'm oblivious, but I haven't experienced a lot of rude behavior in movies. And that's even though most of the movies I go to have a relatively young audience (because when I go to the movies it's usually with one or more of my kids). Maybe it's because the volume of the lowbrow movies I see is turned up so high I couldn't hear someone talking anyway, but I'm rarely disturbed by someone talking in the movies. 21395. CalGal - 7/20/2001 4:01:55 PM Ohio, 21396. janjon - 7/20/2001 4:05:37 PM Leaving aside the movies where I attend with one or the other kid (actually, the daughter is at the stage where she "prefers" not to go to movies with either me or my wife), I would have to say that the movie audiences I encounter, even the mature know-it-all-New-Yorker-type-of-patron "artsy" ones referred to above, aren't much worse in the noise or other rude behavior categories than the usual theater crowd - where people are paying a lot more than the (nevertheless exhorbitant) price to go to a movie. 21397. OhioSTOPAS - 7/20/2001 4:05:57 PM You'd think cell phones would be going off during movies (since there's no place free of that annoyance), but I can't recall ever hearing one in a movie. 21398. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 4:08:43 PM I'm sure my experiences are not representational at all because we prefer going to early shows after the movie has run for awhile for precisely that reason...to avoid crowds. And I never said we sat there suffering in silence; Keoni has no qualms about turning and telling people to keep it down. However, I don't like to have to resort to that in order to enjoy a movie. 21399. mgleason - 7/20/2001 4:11:25 PM My experience in the movie theaters around here is that there is a buzz of conversation during the previews which dies down right away when the movie begins. We don't see many movies where little kids are a significant part of the audience, but there are always lots of teens. 21400. PsychProf - 7/20/2001 4:12:07 PM Judith...are they shooting their guns, bringing horses along, allowing grazing cows inside...what's the story? 21401. mgleason - 7/20/2001 4:15:10 PM It's a Tom Mix crowd, Prof; they're under the impression that the term 'talkies' refers to preferred audience behavior. 21402. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 4:15:34 PM That's about it, PP...and spitting tobacco and hurling lassoes at the finer looking fillies in the audience... 21403. PsychProf - 7/20/2001 4:16:34 PM Sounds like my kinda people... 21404. CalGal - 7/20/2001 4:21:12 PM Every so often I'll go to a movie where teens are disruptive, but the ushers are on their ass in a heartbeat. And even then it's only at the theater complexes that skew towards teens. 21405. racehorse - 7/20/2001 4:40:23 PM It's a cultural thing, though I do not talk at the screen. 21406. mgleason - 7/20/2001 4:45:50 PM We talk to the screen all the time while watching videos, as in, 'What, are you nuts?' and 'That's right, go down to the basement by yourself!' 21407. PsychProf - 7/20/2001 4:47:54 PM The TV is like a talking member of our family... 21408. janjon - 7/20/2001 4:48:00 PM Do you ever rewind a bit, just to have the chance to say it to them a second time to make sure they got the message? 21409. mgleason - 7/20/2001 4:49:20 PM I'll be very careful not to suggest that to my husband, Janjon, or we'll never get through another video again! 21410. PsychProf - 7/20/2001 4:50:24 PM JanJon...that or pause it so they can't get away...tell them to know themselves in a biblical way and, indeed , also the horse they rode in on. 21411. PsychProf - 7/20/2001 4:52:56 PM I wanna watch a video with Mr Ed. 21412. mgleason - 7/20/2001 4:57:27 PM You would have been in heaven, Prof, watching The Comfort of Strangers with him. Would that Rupert Everett had listened to all his sage advice! 21413. Ms. No - 7/20/2001 5:04:30 PM My roommate and I have some wildly divergent views on which are the best theaters to see movies at here in LA. We're agreed that our absolute favorite is the Mann Village in Westwood. It's a vintage theater that's been beautifully maintained but it also has a gigantic screen, excellent sound, cheap, easy parking and it's not too far from home. 21414. janjon - 7/20/2001 5:06:58 PM I thought that all movie theaters in LaLa Land had valet parking. 21415. janjon - 7/20/2001 5:07:27 PM The Mann Village is a terrific theater, I agree. 21416. Ms. No - 7/20/2001 5:08:28 PM Maria, 21417. mgleason - 7/20/2001 5:12:14 PM I have a lot of time for Pinter, Ms. That film has provided much fodder for conversation. 21418. Ms. No - 7/20/2001 5:13:41 PM Janjon, 21419. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 5:15:53 PM The dread in that movie is surpassed only by The Sheltering Sky...I was creeped by both enormously. 21420. Ms. No - 7/20/2001 5:16:58 PM Maria, 21421. Cellar Door - 7/20/2001 5:38:08 PM Pure Surrealism -- and Not For the Faint of Heart. 21422. CalGal - 7/20/2001 5:51:42 PM Race, 21423. racehorse - 7/20/2001 5:55:34 PM I don't know that it is at all income-related. 21424. Ms. No - 7/20/2001 6:28:01 PM The theater closest to my house----the Mann Culver----has a large black and latino patronage. I've found them to be less vocal in this neighborhood than in other cities although it does depend somewhat on the film and which showing I attend. My neighborhood is pretty mixed, a lot of renters but also a lot of home owners as well as businesses----very close to Sony Studios and the municipal bldgs of Culver City. There are plenty of both blue and white collar workers as well as retirees and service industry employees. At least three elementary schools and two highschools within three miles. 21425. Frankster - 7/20/2001 7:03:25 PM This gem of a movie was my first and most memorable "interactive" experience at a movie theatre ever! 21426. JudithAtHome - 7/20/2001 7:17:01 PM And now you can enjoy her every week in That 70s Show. 21427. Frankster - 7/20/2001 7:22:14 PM Yeah, but is she in loin cloth ? 21428. Shannon - 7/20/2001 11:02:42 PM I've only heard a cell phone once in a movie, I think. Of course, I don't get out much. 21429. joezan - 7/22/2001 10:56:18 AM Brought our older (9) daughter to see Jurassic Park III yesterday. It was 95ºF with 100% humidity outside, so there was no better place to be. So much for my motivation for seeing this movie. (Although I did really like JP-1). 21430. joezan - 7/22/2001 11:03:37 AM OH! - and the crowd... 21431. mgleason - 7/22/2001 2:07:54 PM Two oldies but goodies on deck for tonight: Hope and Glory (Thank you, Adolf!) and Sleuth. 21432. JudithAtHome - 7/22/2001 2:10:16 PM If you want to see him at his most beautiful get Zulu and look at his face...eyelashes and that myopic stare...yum. 21433. mgleason - 7/22/2001 2:13:41 PM I haven't seen Zulu in a dog's age, Judith! Thanks for the reminder. 21434. CalGal - 7/22/2001 2:38:56 PM AMC shows Zulu at the oddest hours of the day in night--in letterbox. To the best of my knowledge, they've got the only good print. The DVD quality is poor, from what I've read. I wonder if they are planning on a theatrical release? 21435. Toenails - 7/23/2001 6:40:05 AM 21436. CalGal - 7/23/2001 7:34:28 AM Irony alert. 21437. CalGal - 7/23/2001 7:37:31 AM 21438. CalGal - 7/23/2001 7:41:24 AM For all its fame and readily acknowledged influence, Rififi has been almost completely unavailable for most of the 45 years since its release. Rialto has performed another rescue, and they released the results last fall. I caught the movie in a second-run art house; look for it in your neighborhood. The DVD contains a 1998 interview with Dassin who participated in the restoration and helped rewrite the subtitles. 21439. ElliottRW - 7/23/2001 9:16:44 AM Almost makes me want to see the film, CalGal. 21440. glendajean - 7/23/2001 11:36:51 AM Because it was ungodly hot and humid, because I like John Cusack and Billy Crystal, because it was there ... I saw America's Sweethearts yesterday. 21441. CalGal - 7/24/2001 1:35:07 AM I've always wondered what really happened at Rorke's Drift; just now I found a site that describes the history, what happened to all the VC winners, and mentions the various inaccuracies in Zulu. Fun reading; I can't swear as to its accuracy. 21442. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 10:19:27 AM In the program we watched last week they said the Martini-Henry rifles could've overheated and jammed plus the ammo boxes were shut with a long screw; in the heat of battle, they had to bash the boxes open and this was proved by finding several crooked screws and re-creating how the butts of the rifles hitting the tops of the wooden boxes bent the screws. 21443. Francis Urquhart - 7/24/2001 10:53:52 AM The Gift 21444. Francis Urquhart - 7/24/2001 11:18:45 AM Dude, Where's My Car 21445. janjon - 7/24/2001 11:22:21 AM Dude, Where's My Car and Saving Silverman? Were you hosting an 11 year old nephew or something? 21446. Francis Urquhart - 7/24/2001 11:23:34 AM Janjon 21447. janjon - 7/24/2001 11:27:04 AM funny, I would have guessed at least a couple years more. Maturity-wise, that is. 21448. Francis Urquhart - 7/24/2001 11:29:10 AM Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude! 21449. janjon - 7/24/2001 11:30:12 AM but, I obviously was wrong. 21450. Ms. No - 7/24/2001 11:42:30 AM Francis, 21451. Francis Urquhart - 7/24/2001 11:46:54 AM Ms. No 21452. arkymalarky - 7/24/2001 11:51:26 AM Oooh, isn't that the truth. It's why I can't stand Jessica Lange. Just seeing a tiny excerpt and hearing her drawl in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" was enough. And it really grates on a Southerner to hear that. We get enough of it irl to make our teeth hurt. 21453. CalGal - 7/24/2001 11:51:28 AM I think it's best to consider Boys Don't Cry an anomaly. Swinton's TV work is much more indicative of her speed. 21454. Cellar Door - 7/24/2001 12:13:38 PM You mean Swank, not Swinton. 21455. Ms. No - 7/24/2001 12:16:22 PM CG, 21456. CalGal - 7/24/2001 12:24:01 PM I meant Swank, sorry. I don't care for Swinton, either, but that's a different issue. 21457. rubberducky - 7/24/2001 12:54:59 PM rented O Brother, Where Art Thou? and i enjoyed it. could've been funnier - a lot gags just didn't pan out. it's not the fault of the 3 leads, though, as they were fantastic. 21458. CalGal - 7/24/2001 1:01:28 PM Singing or speaking? Clooney didn't do his own singing--he tried, but it wasn't good enough. The other two are singing. His speaking voice is fabulous, though. 21459. rubberducky - 7/24/2001 1:03:10 PM singing voice, CG. good catch. well, whoever sang was pretty good. the other two did a good job in the singing department. especially the yodel! very funny. 21460. CalGal - 7/24/2001 1:07:27 PM The yodel was hysterical. You do know that the soundtrack is still a bestseller? It's very good, and includes every song from the film. 21461. racehorse - 7/24/2001 1:08:47 PM The singing scenes were great. I saw Clooney recently in "The Perfect Storm." I never really noticed how dark his complexion is--it was an interesting aspect of OBWAT. 21462. Ms. No - 7/24/2001 1:10:15 PM "We thou-ought yooo wuz uh toad." 21463. Francis Urquhart - 7/24/2001 1:15:06 PM Cal 21464. Jamie R - 7/24/2001 1:19:00 PM Nobody has mentioned Swank's ground breaking work in The Next Karate Kid. 21465. CalGal - 7/24/2001 1:23:47 PM There are two versions of "I'm a Man of Constant Sorrow" on the CD. One is performed by the singer who dubbed for Clooney and his band. The other is done by the Soggy Bottom Boys, and I believe that one is the dubber and the two actors. I'll see if I can find the articles again. 21466. ElliottRW - 7/24/2001 1:44:15 PM I saw the first 30 minutes of Zulu last night before I went to bed. It was not quite good enough to keep me awake, but certainly interesting enough to make me wish I had a blank VCR tape. Guess I'll watch the rest next month. 21467. CalGal - 7/24/2001 1:46:51 PM The one on last night wasn't letterboxed, which it has been every other time I've seen it. If you're going to tape it wait for the letterbox--I think they must alternate. 21468. JudithAtHome - 7/24/2001 1:49:17 PM There are two versions of "I'm a Man of Constant Sorrow" on the CD. 21469. racehorse - 7/24/2001 1:58:09 PM Zulu is a fantastic movie. Do tape it, if you get a chance. 21470. ElliottRW - 7/24/2001 4:49:09 PM One of the things I found interesting about Zulu was the variety of viewpoints: the preacher, an anonymous observer at the site of the massacre, the engineer at the bridge, the thief in the infirmary, the leiutenant shooting ineffectually at a leopard, the whiny cook crying over his soup, etc. No one character seems to own the story; it's quite apparently about all of them and their shared fate. 21471. rubberducky - 7/27/2001 9:14:06 AM more evidence that the borg-like companies can't / won't understand the 21st century marketplace: 21472. ElliottRW - 7/27/2001 9:28:28 AM ducky,
Ah, love. AI is another movie about love, this time, maternal love. As everybody knows, Stanley Kubrick tried to do this movie forever, and somehow passed the project on to Steven Spillberg before he died. An unlikely pairing, but perhaps Spillberg is the spoon full of sugar necessary to swallow Kubrick's often stark sense of humanity.
This is the BIG picture. We --human beings -- aren't the center of the universe. We're smart and terribly mean, we're creative and what makes us human may not be our bodies.
In AI, the world is run by orgas (short for organics) and aided by megas (mechanicals or robots) due to a shortage of orgas because of environmental catastrophes. The ice caps have melted, and New York along with all other coastal cities around the world are underwater.
The humans feel both paternal and superior to the megas, who are basically slaves. In wilderness "Flesh Fairs," megas are routinely destroyed in entertainments akin to Roman circues.
Almost all sympathy in AI's world is with the megas in general, and in particular a boy robot named David played by Haley Joel Osment (an actor who has mastered the art of playing lonely little boys isolated from all others). Osment is creepily good, and on the screen for almost the entire movie. He definitely deserves a nomination for this role.
The other two sympathetic characters are: 1) Teddy, the sympathetic Smart Toy teddy bear and Sancho Panza to David's Don Quixote; and 2) Gigolo Joe, played by Jude Law, a slick and cocky mega created to give women sexual pleasure.
David was created to provide love for childless couples (most humans are in this world). He was also built to dream and retain affection for the mother who says the magic sequence of words. Once they are said and the right button is pushed, he is hardwired for life to love and desire that love, to want to be loved by that mother.
Unfortunately, humans have a hard time returning love to megas, and secondly, life for a machine can potentially continue long past life for a person. In fact, the fiat assumption of this movie, is that this boy is going to last for a long time.
I've read several comments about how darkly disturbing this movie is, but I didn't respond that way. Perhaps colored by Spielburg's "sugar," the audience is given enough time to accept that what makes us humans, at least the good part, our spirit, might be transfered down the line to mechanical entities.
Really? I think he's an extremely solid leading man. If it were easy to hold down a movie's center, it wouldn't pay so well. I really admire Clooney (quite apart from thinking he's hot).
GJ,
Is it appropriate for early teens? Spawn wants to go, and I've tried to tell him it's not a fun movie, but I want to know if there's anything too violent or sexually creepy.
CalGal
Well, Cloony isn't as crappy as Phoenix, that's for sure. He's just crappy in a kinda Tom Sellecky, hail-fellow-well-met kinda way.
Phoenix is crappy in a "see how deeply emotive I am...hark! my eyes are watering...forsooth! my chin is quivering" kinda way. He's much more annoying, it's true.
re: Moulin Rouge -- it's Baz Lurhmann's idea of a musical. As I read somewhere else, he doesn't get much traction with his characters, giving everything over to the visual and spectacular. I think in someways it was much more operatic than musical, but that's an argument fraught with difficulty.
Excluding our personal opinions (in which we're allowed to think of him as either the next Olivier or just another cute TV star), Clooney's success thus far has moved him completely out of Selleck's orbit. He's not appearing in studio "vehicles" (a la Selleck, Fox, Ted Danson, and other TV stars who tried to make the jump) that they know will probably tank in the theaters but make enough money in video to justify the expenditure.
No, Clooney's charging some $12 mill per film and going for the same A-film parts as Hanks, Cruise, Crowe and the like. He's made the leap. Which makes him the first major TV star to do so, ever. Selleck could never hold down a film's center--which is why he never made it. Clooney's price and success proves that he can.
So if you want to call him crappy, call him crappy in a Cruise kind of way. The guy's earned the right to a meaningful comparison. (g)
I don't think he's crappy at all, btw. He's one of my favorite leading men, and one of his movies has hit my top five films for each of the past three years. But I'm taking issue with your assessment of him because I've been tracking TV stars trying to break into movies for a very long time, and I'm just so proud of him. (wipes away a tear.)
I think he is an iconic actor (ala Gary Cooper or Clark Gable). One can read into his silent, black stares, his stubbled faced, a world of things.
But GJ, what musical does get traction from its characters?
George Cloony was in a tv show?
You're joking? Clooney was in ER and was the major breakout star of the show that was ranked #1 every year since.
Despite many offers to leave the show and work in movies, he not only worked out his six year contract, he didn't renegotiate for more money. He worked movies in and around his tv schedule, working 100 hour weeks at times in order to meet both commitments.
Also, he was Roxanne's boss for awhile in the beginning of her tv show.
CG
Do tell. You sound .... enamoured (snerk snerk)
ER, I've heard of it, I've never seen it, is it still on? Is it an HBO series? (we canceled cable a while back)
Well, that's the kind I try to ask. (g)
Compare it to Singin in the Rain or The Bandwagon in terms of quality of musical numbers, their appropriateness to the plot, the naturalness in which the stars break into song and the music is used to progress the movie emotionally. I think the comparison is entirely apt--except for the dancing, but then Moulin Rouge is a singing musical. Now I grant you that Singin in the Rain is the greatest musical ever, precisely because its script and story is far beyond what any other musical ever achieved. But looking at these movies as musicals, I think you'll see that Moulin Rouge is entirely within that tradition--and certainly worthy of comparison with other Hollywood musicals of the 50s.
Mind you, I don't object if people hate it, but I do think that there is a tendency to exalt musicals of the 50s and then excoriate a movie that uses exactly the same approach--and does so very well--all the while beating the poor film up for using practices that are accepted and celebrated without question in the hallowed films of old.
ER, I've heard of it, I've never seen it, is it still on?
Um. Yes. For a while NBC paid $13 million per episode. Which means, of course, that it is not on cable.
It is truly a huge, huge TV show. You've never seen or heard of ER? Seriously?
No, no, I've HEARD of it - hell, I've "heard" (read) you guys talking about it for a couple of years now. But no, I've never seen it, and I did think it was an HBO show like WestWing or something like that.
Ack, sorry - I think I've shocked you!
I don't think I could hum a single song from MR. He is much more into snippets than a song (with a couple of exceptions).
I always thought nobody takes pop songs about love seriously. Lurhmann does, enough to get it to be the fuel of his story. It worked, for me in the final scene (very performance with-in-a-performance moment).
The early stuff, I found boring. In fact, I had to fight falling asleep.
They'd bought the soundtrack before they got to see the movie and they listen to it all the time. The artist is one of their favorites, can't remember his name and they're not home to ask, but that is a nice cd.
Mom and Dad swore up and down it was a Texas governor. Derning (sp) looked to me like Huey Long, though, and I thought he modeled his style, another thing Dad disagreed with. I guess one fat Southern politician in a white hat and coat looks like another to me.
Oh, sweetie. It's worse than that. West Wing isn't HBO, either.
When O'Daniel was elected Governor, they had his inauguration in the newly built Memorial Stadium at the University of Texas. It is considered the largest crowd for an inauguration.
The movie put him in Mississippi, but then, it borrowed lots of elements from history and re-arranged them, not to mention its retelling of the Oddessy.
No way! I would have sworn that West Wing was a cable show! Huh.
OK, Sopranos, that one's cable, yes?
Now that I've thought of it, I did know that Clooney was on that show. I've seen his picture on magazines and stuff.
I didn't much care for the first musical number, at the Moulin Rouge. (although I did first catch interest when the narcoleptic Argentinian made his entrance, earlier). But for me, the film kicked into gear when Ewan broke in on that high note (on the John/Taupin song).
As for song tidbits--except for the first number at the Moulin Rouge and the deliberate use of song tidbits in the Elephant Medley, all the other numbers are sung in full.
However, even if you personally don't enjoy the songs, my point is that it is very much in keeping with that tradition. Hollywood musicals used pop songs, didn't have much "character traction", and weren't always terribly original stories.
dingdingdingdingding!
Now that I've thought of it, I did know that Clooney was on that show. I've seen his picture on magazines and stuff.
Yeah. He was a huge TV star. There have been TV stars trying to use their popularity to cut over to movie stardom for some 30+ years--Pernell Roberts, Wayne Rogers, Shelley Long, David Caruso. Note how familiar those names are. In fact, Selleck, Fox, and Danson are the most successful of the group. Until Clooney, who is the only person to successfully make the transition.
Note: this doesn't include people who were minor TV stars and then made it big in movies (Hanks, Moore, Carrey). That's a different (and easier) path.
MR borrowed heavily, lifting existing music and reusing it in a whole new context. Was there an original song in this movie? It's what cabaret singers do all the time.
Maybe Lurhmann saw that as an innovation of the form here.
Or maybe he is frustrated that he doesn't write music and wanted to make a musical and did what is used often on MTV shows like Real World, and punctuated with the pop songs that speak to him.
But then, Garner is God.
If I'd have known that West Wing was on regular TV, I might have watched it a couple of times, it sounds kind of interesting. But now we get such crappy reception, it's really not worth turning the tv on.
But dearheart. You surely didn't think Singin in the Rain was original to the film? It only had one original song. (Make em Laugh). Ditto The Band Wagon (That's Entertainment was written for the film). American in Paris had no original songs. Neither did Easter Parade--in fact, it was created just to take advantage of the pop song.
I discussed this a while back with the Ms--most (but not all) of the Hollywood musicals with memorable scores were created by taking a whole series of popular songs and stringing a story to them.
Many cases where the musicals used original scores are entirely unmemorable. On the Town was almost completely rewritten for screen, and what songs can you remember from that, after the opening to "New York New York"? Seven Brides for Seven Brothers had an original score, but I bet most people can't remember more than one song from it--that movie is famous for the dancing.
The movies with song after memorable song are almost always done by compiling a bunch of pop hits. Broadway musicals often had spectacular scores, but they were written in a much longer time period, with more attention. Hollywood musicals were a slapdash affair, and if they didn't use recycled pop hits, the music was quite often ordinary, with maybe one or two noteworthy tunes.
Nope.
(What sort of gay man are you, anyway?)
I'll look up the previous conversation--I went into this in more detail.
I promise I'll never say that MR isn't a musical and will write this down a hundred times in my journal. (g)
Message # 20816 is where this was discussed before.
All I'm saying is that you are wrong. At least half of the Hollywood musicals that you consider "great" used pop songs from the past 20 years. Just like Moulin Rouge.
I think there are plenty of reasons not to like the film; I just think far too many people think that Gene Kelly wrote Singin in the Rain. Hell, it wasn't only a pop song, it had been used in at least two other movies before then.
If you remember from previous discussions, I am more biased towards musicals than movie musicals. I usually think movies of musicals I like aren't as good as the real thing, seen on a stage, with a good cast and a strong interpretation.
I saw Moulin Rouge the first weekend that it came out. I really enjoyed the first half, but lost interst after that. The execution at the beginning was exciting, the music fun in a tongue and chick kind of way and the cinematography was wild. After a while, however, all of these elements lost their allure, as the weakness of the story (or book i guess you'd say) started to reveal itself.
I would still recommend it, especially to anyone who enjoys musicals. Also, the audience that I saw it with was very enthusiastic; cheering and clapping and chortling throughout.
Oh, and I am tempted to see A.I.
The premise of the movie and the Kubrick connection are both intriguing. The reviews I have read have all been in the fascinating-but-flawed-with-the-occasional-touch-of-magic mould.
I liked all the musical numbers and they were interspersed consistently enough that my interest never flagged.
My biggest complaint was the Duke, who was just too weird to be enjoyable (although Like A Virgin came close).
Have you seen Shrek? The Anniversary Party? Anything else?
GJ, you linked in that New Yorker review about the French film who has to pretend to be gay? I've read a few other good reviews of it. Is it generally released yet?
Oh, I did. I'm a goner as far as that flick is concerned. I can understand people not liking it, but it was such a joy to see an original musical again that really understood the spirit of old.
Besides, no matter what one thinks of the film itself, it was an extraordinary performance (for a musical) by MacGregor. It's not often you get to see that on a big screen.
I've only read one weak review, and it was in National Review. I mean, what the hell would they know? (g)
I'll go see it if only for Osment, because everyone says he's phenomenal.
as for that, I haven't seen much on the big screen of late.
I would like to go see crazy beautiful, which has been getting surprisingly good reviews. other than that and A.I., howver, nothing has piqued my interest of late.
That review about the The Closet was from the NY Times. I assume it is playing in NYC, but haven't seen in my burg yet. I figure I'll give it 6 months.
I think the review was by David Denby in the New Yorker. I like Kubrick myself, but Denby proabably has a point. From what I have heard, there is an almost schizophrenic impulse throughout the movie, in which Spielberg attempts to mix his somewhat cheery world view with the less than rosey outlook of Kubrick.
I think the overall p.o.v. is Kubrick's, a certain pessimism about the ability of humans to survive. Spielberg seems to have taken that thought and said, this isn't so bad. As I said, the ending is sort out of 2001.
The movie roots for the machines.
What I've heard about it though is that Kubrick planned all along for Spielberg to be a major player. Jude Law's comments on the making of the film were that Kubrick was present in all but coporeal form. Spielberg was very dedicated to fulfilling Kubrick's vision to the best of his ability.
The tributary aspects of the film are enough to get me into the theater even without the added bonus of Osment and Law.
I also heard some interesting stuff about Crazy Beautiful. It's not a movie I had planned to see----story has been done to death I thought. However, listening to local coverage about it this morning I learned that they cast a lot of non-professional actors in order to gain a different view and an authenticity/veracity that is often lacking in films of this kind.
They played a clip of one of the actors performing a monologue that he wrote for his acting class at the highschool they used for their talent pool and it was really amazing. Now I'm excited just to go and see this kid's performance.
I rented City Hall last night. It is about a charismatic New York City mayor (played by Al Pacino) and his young deputy mayor (played by John Cusack). I knew going in that it was going to be melodramatic (and loathe melodrama), but I got it in my head that I really, really, need to see Al Pacino chew up some scenery. And Chew Pacino did. Other than the scenery chewing, however, i can't really recommend City Hall. Next on my Pacino makes a parody of himself list: The Devil's Advocate.
Kirsten Dunst is supposed to be excellent in Crazy Beautiful. Like you, i am surprised at how much positive press the movie is getting. I'm not normally into these teen angst flicks, but I am determined to see this one.
I heard that Crazy/Beautiful was supposed to be an intelligent antidote to all the cheapo/nutso teen comedies out there...one meant to raise the bar, so to speak.
Crazy Beautiful is getting very solid reviews. I believe that they were forced to tone down the degree to which Dunst was "bad" in order to avoid protests and an R rating.
But apart from the incessant and soppy score, this is a grueling and accurate look at alcholism. Worth a look, if you haven't seen it in a while.
I'm just waiting for The Great Race.
There's a joke that he didn't do this one (while he was alive) because the actor playing the little boy would have grown too much in the years it would have taken him to make the movies.
I think Kubrick does think machines are sinister, but then he thinks people are too. As I said, this movie roots for the machines.
I will say that the last 20 minutes helped to rehabilitate what I had considered a complete failure up until that point, even with the "sensational" twist.
Grade: C.
I really didn't like AI. It was painful to watch. It seemed like everyone in the movie, when they made their decisions, seemed to try to pick the choice that would cause the most people the most pain. There were many illogical things about it, people doing things that just didn't make sense in order to further the plot. I think that it would have been a better movie if they'd worked harder to make things flow more logically.
In limited release, the French farce "The Closet" did well, grossing $80,000 at four theaters in New York City and San Francisco. The movie stars Daniel Auteuil and Gerard Depardieu in a comedy of errors about a bland accountant who pretends to be gay to avoid getting fired.
re: A.I. Notice the moon symbolism. Spielburg uses it a lot, from a DreamWorks logo like quarter moon over the kid's bed, to a moon balloon (although there is no singing moon as in MRJ).
Lime,
Hmmm, I hate watching painful movies. A dilemma.
But it wasn't much of either, I thought.
I think these two gave up on making anybody in the movie but David, Teddy and Gigolo Joe sympathetic, them and the junk robots at the Flesh Fair.
Orgas are in bad shape and have made too many bad choices by the time the movie opens.
Finding mama. That's another theme. Wasn't the first or second Star Trek movie about a force gone amok because it was trying to find its creator, in this case, the satellite sent up in the 70s to explore outer space?
Maybe A.I. is a modern day "Pilgrim's Progress."
The other interesting thing about the ending was (white font follows!) that the mechas at the end of the movie were very interested in what humans were like, and about their spirit, in direct contrast to The Matrix, or the tv show Cleopatra, where the machines are out to get the humans.
Heh. I'm not familiar with Pappy O'Daniel. I do know, however, that Jimmie Davis (who was governor twice, in the 40's and the 60's) wrote "You Are My Sunshine."
All I'm saying is that you are wrong.
If only we had taglines here.
George Clooney was also on Sisters.
Didn't I mention Sisters? I couldn't remember the name. But he was one of their boyfriends. That was the last gig before ER, I think.
Scott, I am definitely going to rent Empire of the Sun. I don't know why I thought it was set in Singapore.
I remember the promos for the movie -- an English boys choir singing a hymn, contrasted with the brutality of the war. It was very haunting -- at least enough that I still remember it.
Maybe I'll get to see it this weekend.
Another one that will also cross the Atlantic soon is The Fabulous Destiny of Emilie Poulin, a big hit in France at the moment, directed by Jeunet, The director of Delicatessen. Im not really wild about his style, but the film was okay. Afterward, I felt like I had seen 17 or so cleverly designed commercials pasted back to back.
I dont get it. Why isnt John Travolta the biggest actor to jump from TV to movies. For 3 years, he was the star of a top 10, TV show "Welcome Back, Kotter." Then, he became the star of the top grossing movies.
First off, you're absolutely right--failure to mention Travolta is a serious oversight.
But Travolta doesn't qualify as a successful cutover. To the extent that he was a TV personality at all, he goes in the Michael J. Fox/Ted Danson category, as in "one hit does not a movie star make". Or in his case, two hits--Saturday Night Fever and Grease. The similarity with Fox and Danson (and Clooney, for that matter) ends there--he dumped the show that made him.
So he was on the show as a regular for a year, then pretty much disappeared once SNF was a hit, made Grease, then made a series of disastrously bad movies--his greatest contribution to cinema during that period was Richard Gere, who never would have made it without Travolta's rejects.
One thing that is true of Travolta that isn't the case of Fox and Danson is that he was a movie actor--his TV show was a fluke. He never returned to TV, never wanted to. I don't know enough about the history of SNF to know if he was cast based on his TV stardom or because of his dancing ability (does anyone know?). But his life from that point on was in movies, not TV.
In that regard I think he's more akin to Hanks--someone who was a star in a highly rated TV show but not really considered a cutover.
He is unquestionably the most successful of the "later folks, I'm famous now" actors who dumped the show the minute he had a big hit, and certainly should have been mentioned. I plead guilty to neglecting him. Sorry, John.
Yes, Peter Scolari made a couple of not great films but the vast majority of his work has been in Television. I don't really watch much television so I couldn't say much about his acting ability, but I've certainly never seen him be bad and I thought he was equal to Hanks on Bosom Buddies. I imagine that his stature had something to do with him not making a good crossover to film. Regardless of ability he isn't "leading man" material.
Not that there aren't short leading men---notably Cruise and Stallone---but Scolari isn't particularly pretty-boy or macho either. He would've been relegated to supporting and character roles as he has been in television.
He plays a gay man in it.
No less exciting was the fact that I got to see the new Harry Potter trailer on the big screen. The cast, sfx and the sets look great.
Oddly enough, this musical remains the only dramatization of the colonies' debate leading up to the signing of the Declaration of Independence. It really does succeed admirably, despite the often goofy songs and the clunky cuts (the only betrayal of its early 70s making). The performances are all excellent, the script is both witty and quotable, and despite knowing how it all turns out, the suspense is kept taut throughout.
1776 may not capture the events with perfect accuracy, but it certainly goes a long way towards capturing the essence and spirit of one of the great political achievements in history.
Fun for kids; let them run off during the slow parts. Find a widescreen showing, if you can.
All this talk about John Adams lately reminds me of it.
LadyC, we talked about A.I. a couple of days ago, but I don't think very many people have seen it. I liked your image of the time capsule.
Last night my mom wanted to go to a movie with Spawn and me, and the only one available was Moulin Rouge. They both loved it without reservation, I'm happy to say. (breeding tells.)
I have now seen it three times, twice with small suburban audiences (Santa Clara and Overland Park, KC) and once in a full house in a San Francisco theater. The suburban audiences both times were more responsive and definitely "got it", whereas the SF audience was quiet throughout.
I'm not talking about whether or not the audience liked the film (although there's no question that the majority in both suburban audiences did), but whether or not they understood the references, the humor, and so on. I would have expected the SF audience to be more tuned in, whether or not they appreciated it.
I guess I'll have to stop selling my beloved suburbs short.
So I'm going to go see MR this weekend while LD is with her Godparents. I am really looking forward to it.
Same for A.I. I usually go to the earliest matinee on Saturday or Sunday. When I lived in DC, the Arlington Courthouse cinema had 10:30 am showings for a while. Only two mishaps -- the manager overslept --everybody was there, including the popcorn people, but he had the key to the safe. The second one happened because they were tearing down a government building next to the theater. I watched all of Evita while some guy was jackhammering next door.
GJ,
A lot of movies are really enhanced with a good audience, don't you think? I rarely go to matinees unless I know it's a popular film.
I'm back to going to the movie theatre now that I found one that has $2 matinees and is in decent condition. It is a 40 minute drive from my place, but much much nicer than the 2 theatres here in town that are very decrepit and charge $4 for matinees.
In fact, I may just make an afternoon of it on Saturday and see both MR and AI.
(Obviously, I haven't had any problems with matinees.)
Next thing you know, I'll be bowling alone.
The (g) was because I'm clearly a broken record on the subject, not because I thought you didn't know.
I don't mind matinees where the audience isn't a big part of the movie experience. I saw The Truman Show in a $2 theater almost completely empty, and Out Of Sight, one of my favorite movies, was seen with just three other people late on a Sunday evening.
It's not matinees per se that I seek to avoid, it's empty theaters for an audience film.
LD wants to see Legally Blonde, but I'm not sure I do. Still, I'll probably take her to see it.
I refused to take her to see Animal (NOT my cup of tea), so her Dad took her.
I'm also planning on Cats and Dogs, although Planet of the Apes is the one I'm really looking forward to. I want Tim Burton to redeem himself for Sleepy Hollow.
I may be the only person who lived through the first Planet series that didn't go see any of them.
I think another Midwest reunion is in order, though. How far away is Chicago? Slack and his wife are on their way there now.
I hate audiences because I can hear everything going on around me and can't block it out...in restaurants, I can hear converstions going on two tables away very clearly. So we like to watch movies in big empty theatres...audience reaction has never added to my enjoyment in a theatre enough to equal the way it has detracted from it. I get enough enjoyment out of Keonis reaction...
When I saw Sleepy Hollow there was a very very large man who sat down a few seats over from me and spent the rest of the movie struggling to breath. I have ocassional asthma and that is one of the few sounds that I simply cannot tolerate- I had to get up and move it was so excruciating. (I felt pretty bad about that.)
Oh, and yes glendajean, I've been in Indy for about two years now. And Chicago's about 4 hours away from me, Calgal.
Oh, I know what you mean. But that can happen anywhere. I once had a contract with a cubicle next to a guy with some horrible condition that involved constant hacking and wheezing. Fortunately he only worked part-time, so I wouldn't come in until 10 or so to avoid him.
Now to confess my guilty secret - I have never seen any of the Godfather movies. I just always thought I didn't like gangster movies, detective movies, or cop movies. Keoni managed to convert me enough that I am going to go out and rent the 3 Godfather movies, however.
He has a way of doing that sort of thing; that's why I now like musicals.
Well, I've always liked musicals. So, once again, your fella demonstrates his good taste. You have each chosen a winner to spend your lives with.
Now I can go see MR at the local theatre, but it's small, ugly, uncomfortable, and usually has projection problems. Then there is the big fancy multiplex a little farther away than my fav place, but they've just raised their 'cheap' matinee ticket to $5 and that makes me grouchy. Of course, MR is also showing at the theatre in the big mall to the SW which charges $4.25, but I know I won't resist shopping too, making that potentially much much more expensive.
sigh
decisions decisions
I suppose I could watch MR at the big multiplex and stop at my fav on the way home to watch A.I.....
Or maybe I'll just rent the Godfather movies and stay home and pop my own popcorn and watch all 3 right in a row.
Click here to become a director of your own short film
Gotta get to a workout. TTFN
( I didn't scroll back, so forgive me if it has already been linked in here )
I want to see Legally Blonde. It looks cute.
I really like most of the movies he's in, but I know exactly what to expect from him, and it's tiresome.
He perfected the likable, highly distractable/constantly distracted smart guy about 15 years ago in The Fly, and it's time to move on.
...unless that's all he's got, of course.
It took a while to understand folks, but this is another sweet film in what is now almost a genre unto itself: the bud of bloom in the horror of Thatcherism (see Trainspotting, Little Voice, Brassed Off, a spate of Ken Loach films). Grade: B.
I don't think Trainspotting is in the same category, is it? I still haven't seen it--heard about the baby and decided to pass.
Goldblum is in a cable movie right now about one of the Hollywood 10, the one who made the movie about the strike.
Good call on the baby. Avoid.
Silverado, The Fly, The Tall Guy, The Big Chill.
Arigato! and Thank You!
A Fistfull of Dollars.
Yojimbo itself, however, is based on a Dashielle Hammett story. Maybe The Glass Key.
Ace, are you sure? Somehow that doesn't sound right. But maybe Kurosawa was a Hammett fan?
Roadhouse Nights (1930, from Red Harvest)
The Maltese Falcon (1931)
The Thin Man (1934)
Woman in the Dark (1934)
The Glass Key (1935)
Satan Met a Lady (1936) (from The Maltese Falcon)
The Maltese Falcon (1941)
The Glass Key (1942)
Yojimbo (1961) (from Red Harvest)
A Fistful of Dollars (1964) (from Red Harvest)
The Dain Curse (1978) (TV)
Miller's Crossing (1990) (from The Glass Key, but not acknowledged)
Last Man Standing (1996) (from Red Harvest)
etc.
Yojimbo (DVD)
Yojimbo (VHS)
Dir: Akira Kurosawa
with Toshiro Mifune
Kurosawa admitted in interviews that this film was, essentially, an uncredited adaptation of elements from Dashiell Hammett's "Red Harvest" and "The Glass Key"; in addition, as so many samurai films are, it shares many tropes with the American Western, which made Sergio Leone's swipe of the swipe, turning "Yojimbo" into "Fistful of Dollars" all the more logical.
Having recently seen Holy Smoke and now bits of this, I think Jane Campion movies need a warning on the video jacket: "Pleased be advised, when we describe this movie as "erotic" we are speaking in the alien tongue of the Slime Overlords of Rigel 7. Humans viewers may not be aroused by urination, dismemberment, or Harvey Keitel."
Again, thanks for the information.
(snerk)
Was it Campion who directed Little Women, or some other female director? Oh, wait. That was Gillian Armstrong. Okay, the erotic warning holds.
Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Solid story, nice set of unconventional characters, and outstanding visual effects--I actually got vertigo a few times--all add up to a well spent 90 minutes. Take the kids or not, it works either way.
Incidentally, that's Florence Stanley as the unflappable old woman with many of the best lines. If you're wondering why you know her voice, there's a good chance it's because you're a Barney Miller fan (she was Fish's wife).
I've....been away...so maybe A.I. has been discussed to death already.
No real spoilers here.
'Just saw it tonight. Not bad, exactly, but definitely disappointing. As usual, I had high expectations and they were not fulfilled.
'First third of the movie, I take it, was the Kubrick part, and it was fine. 'Last two-thirds were pure Spielberg, and (in my view) pretty juvenile.
Two and a half stars on the Maltin scale.
I did not much like MR. I didn't like the frenetic cutting
blink
they're over there in those costumes
blink
no, they're over there
blink
moved again!
I couldn't work up much sympathy for the characters. No one was developed very well, and there was no pay-off.
Just not my cup of tea.
I did like AI.
I didn't feel, as I have seen/heard others say, that it was two different movies. I thought it hung together very well and progressed naturally. The AI child was very believable, never seemed to be a "real boy" - very much the programmed simalcrum faithful to his programming. The other people were also well-drawn, adults and chldren, minor and major characters. I also didn't think it drew too dark or nasty vision of the human race, either.
I do hope some engineer see the flick and decides to design a "Teddy" like that, though. I want one.
um, here's something: it sucked.
hard.
the kid was good - that's it. i mildly liked 'Teddy', but that is only worth mentioning because the rest of this movie is complete derivative, predictable drek.
let's start with the 'plot'. the first half of the movie creeped me and Ripley out big time. i thought the idea of the company using an employee who suffered a loss as shown in the movie to be sick. sick and cruel.
so, these two idiots take this robot boy into their home and proceed to ... i dunno - be boring. this was excruciating to watch. did i mention creepy? because it was - creepy.
anyway, let's move on. after roughly half the movie passes (slooooowly i might add), the film goes from Millennium Man Part II to Tron meets Running Man with just a smidge of watered down Blade Runner thrown in just to piss me off.
stupid. that's all i can say. the costumes, plot holes, acting in these horrible 'action' sequences were irritating to say the absolution least.
i won't even go into how absolutely retarded Jude Law's "Mr Robo: Male Gigolo" gig is.
avoid. this movie is so lame, i did something i haven't done since i don't know when -we got up and left when Law did his 'dancin'-in-the-rain' bullshit in the woods.
rent if you absolutely must see it.
i give it one and a half quacks. one for Osment & a half for 'Teddy'.
Christi,
The cutting is the one thing I warn people about. It didn't bother me (and choppy cutting usually does) but I could see it being distracting.
As far as well-developed characters--were you judging it by musical standards? I thought the characters were quite well done on that level.
I saw Crazy/Beautiful yesterday, which I really liked. Predictable, I guess, but I liked the characters.
The mother couldn't take him back to the company that made him because she had been told that he would be destroyed. Her selfishness (which is what got her into this trouble in the first place) wouldn't allow her to let David be destroyed because it was too painful for her even though it was infinitely more cruel to abandon David than to let him be destroyed.
So the humans in the movie make lousy choices and the characters that we are supposed to like are ... machines.
I thought Law did a pretty good job with his characterization of being a goofy sex doll.
Who else is on the "I really liked it" team? Am I alone? If I am, perhaps it is fitting since isolation is such a major theme in the film.
Before I get bogged down in the themes department let me say that whether or not one likes the film itself there is no denying the incredible talent of Haley Joel Osment. His transformation in the imprinting scene is one of the most amazing performances I've ever seen. A lot of people are impressed by "big" acting----tears and madness and rage and storms of emotion----but the skill and talent required to effectively and movingly portray such a subtle thing as being infused with a human soul is about the slickest fucking trick in the book. And it was accomplished by a 12 year old boy. It's an Oscar-worthy performance bar none.
Okay, on to other things.
Visually I found A.I. compelling and beautiful. I could if required point out the Kubrick scenes v. the Spielberg scenes, but while watching the film I didn't feel jarred at all. A major shift in the film comes toward the last quarter and I found it most closely resembled the shift in 2001. It's like being at a backyard party surrounded by people and noise and then diving into the deep end of the pool: time slows, sound mutes and vision is blurred a bit.
The themes of isolation, the nature of love, selfishness v. selflessness, moral responsibility for the growth of technology, responsibility within families and societally for how we behave toward one another and the responsibility we bear toward those who love us are all present. I'm sure there are others, but on a single viewing it's about all I can remember.
cont.
There aren't really any villains in the film only people who disappoint you and make you ashamed of them. The one exception is the ring-leader at the Flesh Fair but he and his minion were so poorly developed it's hard to call them villains. I think, too, that there is a sympathetic light to show him in as well as those who follow him. This would be for me the only real "Spielberg Failing" in that he gives us a character who is obviously there for us to loathe. I don't consider the action sequences of the film to be failings although they are certainly Spielbergisms and I'm of mixed feelings about the Teddy character who is something like a cross between an Ewok and a non-sentient Yoda (if you can imagine that). I certainly don't agree with reviews who state that Spielberg give us a happy ending. All in all I think the complexity of the characters and their motivations is something that Spielberg rarely accomplishes on his own and to see how diligently he resisted his own tendancy to give us moral absolutes is a testament to his respect for Kubrick's dream.
Flaws....well, there are a couple of plot points that don't make a whole lot of sense but they are minor enough that they didn't bug me. I think also that some suspension of disbelief is necessary to account for the behavior of the Mechas (robots) in general. They very obviously have a will to survive. Perhaps this is explained in a scene that takes place between David and some neighborhood boys, but if so it was not clear enough for me to get it until just this very moment when I thought of it some 24 hours later. At any rate, even this is not too bothersome. It's a movie in large part about humanity and how it might be achieved in humanoid robots, it wouldn't be very effective if we didn't care about them and how could we care about them if they don't care for themselves?
Here's the list--let me know what I missed:
A.I.
The Anniversary Party
Atlantis
Baby Boy
Cats and Dogs
The Closet
Crazy/Beautiful
Dr. Doolittle II
Evolution
Fast and the Furious
Kiss of the Dragon
Lara Croft, Tombraider
Moulin Rouge
Pearl Harbor
Pootie Tang
Princess and the Warrior
Sexy Beast
Shrek
Songcatcher
Swordfish
Hopefully I'll figure out a way to format.
The Anniversary Party: Yea
Atlantis: Yea
Moulin Rouge: Yea
Shrek: Yea
Spawn's:
Lara Croft: Nay
Moulin Rouge: Yea
Pearl Harbor: Nay
Shrek: Yea
Of those only" Cats and Dogs" is on my to see list. have there been posts regarding Cats and Dogs in this discussion?
Cats and Dogs Nay
Crazy/Beautiful Yea
"The Luzern Defese" ( I spelled Luzern wrong it is not the Swiss city.
A.I. eh.
Pearl Harbor NAY!!!!!
....That's it for me. I'm mostly a VCR guy.
Lara Croft, Tombraider - Yay (it was fun)
Moulin Rouge - BIG YAY!
Shrek - Yay
Swordfish - Nay
Lara Croft, Tombraider - Nay (the sequences between game levels were more fun)
Moulin Rouge - ok (yawn)
Pearl Harbor (it bombed)
Dr. Doolittle II - yay
Evolution - eh
Moulin Rouge -nay
Shrek - Yay
On my 'gonna see it' list:
Atlantis
Cats and Dogs
Crazy/Beautiful
On my 'maybe when it comes out on video' list:
Pearl Harbor
Laura Croft
A lot of the others I haven't heard of. We did notice Pootie Tang running at the movies when we went to see Evolution, but have no idea what it is about, not having seen any ads or trailers for it. Has anyone here seen it and can give me a hint?
LD wants to see Legally Blonde this weekend with some friends and I haven't yet decided if I'll let her. Any comments?
Atlantis & Cats and Dogs i'll try to get around to seeing in the theater if i can.
no interest in/never heard of the rest in CG's list.
looking forward to seeing:
Jurassic Park III (hope it is better than II)
Final Fantasy (if for nothing other than the animation - i've never played the game)
Rush Hour 2 (probably will suck, but i love Chris Tucker)
I'll probably wait and watch
I saw a cut from Legally Blonde and it looked cute...they didn't mention a rating but Reese Witherspoon said it was about reaching goals and not judging by appearences. She didn't mention what it was rated.
I guess I'll let them see Legally Blonde, assuming I'm right that it is rated PG-13.
I think LD would enjoy it a lot.
I saw the ads for the Chris Rock movie but it didn't look like anything I would enjoy so I didn't pay attention to them. I liked him in Nurse Betty but other than that, I'm not a huge fan of his...just my opinion; I know he is very popular with most people.
I just checked the online sites of the five theaters in this area that we go to and none of them are showing Legally Blonde.
LD is disappointed.
Saw Reqium for a Dream(edited version) . I don't think I could have taken the unedited version.
Great movie.
SO, cancel Cats and Dogs (it's still showing, they just prefer LB), we'll be going to see Legally Blonde on Saturday after all.
I'll let you know what I and the girls think of it.
I hope Legally Blonde is appropriate enough for the girls -- sitting and watching a nice fluffy movie for a couple of hours on Monday afternoon sounds like a great way to pass the time!
140 million bucks to simulate a movie with a lousy script, wooden acting, and pedestrian direction. I'm sure you can get that these days for under 100. With the exception of a few short seguences (maybe ten minutes of the film) I was terribly bored.
Ebert's review: "the reason to see this movie is simply, gloriously, to look at it." That's primarily why I went, but I didn't see much that was glorious. The computer stuff is impressive by the standards of video games, and pretty lousy by the standards of normal animation. The characters are stiff and expressionless and often badly lipsync their dialogue. There is a weightless quality to everything in the film, so that objects that are supposed to be interacting more often just seem superimposed. Everything is just a little bit off, but with no clear intention, so that the end result is not stylistic or comic but merely annoying.
That aside, the visuals are generic and dull. The movie has no style and no inventiveness. For some insane reason they chose to lift the heroes straight out of Armageddon. Given that they had total freedom, did they really need the male "lead" to be a square-jawed GI Joe doll?
(I will grant them that in what must have been an excruciating concession to conscience they decided to give the scientist lady normal breasts and have her wear normal clothes.)
IMO this cutting edge stuff would be better tested out on films that are fundamentally comedies, so that when the animation doesn't quite work we're too busy laughing to complain.
And yes, recreated is much better. They didn't just simulate a boring movie, they honest to god created the real deal.
So have you seen Moulin Rouge yet? What did you think?
Haven't seen anything bad about The Score. I think we're going to see that one, after we see Kiss of the Dragon.
(the real question is, did you laugh at Like a Virgin?)
That said, I did laugh at Like a Virgin.
Most of the reasons people give for disliking Moulin Rouge seem "unfair"--meaning that they are just as true about any other musical, so why hold MR to a different standard? But as I mentioned earlier, the cutting is "fair".
Of course, lots of people just don't like musicals, too, but that is a different thing entirely.
I wish to be clear that I'm not demanding people like it, by god! It is just interesting to me to realize how the lapse in original movie musicals has changed the parameters by which we view them.
IMO, the cutting is a legitimate style choice on the part of the director. I can even see a reason behind it - to give a frenetic feel to the movie as a way to present the bohemian (?sp) life. It is just a style that I, personally, don't like.
I wouldn't say I hated the movie or even intensely disliked it, as there were scenes (such as the Like a Virgin bit) that I really liked. I just wish I had rented it or seen it at the cheap theatre instead.
Really? I think Christian is one of the most appealing characters ever, for a musical. There really aren't that many great musical characters, particularly when you move outside of Broadway.
Hmm. Riff in WSS is a good character. Lena Lamont in Singin in the Rain. The Paul Robeson role in Showboat. Fred Astaire in Bandwagon.
But really, most of them don't do much.
I also thought Satine was a decent character--not great, but good enough. And Harold was well developed--good mix of care and commercialism.
I don't think Latrec or the Duke were well-defined characters at all. The Duke in particular seemed a bit too ridiculous to be a heavy. Odd choice--especially since the guy is very goodlooking really and can play a lethal bad guy (he was the best thing in a lousy MI2).
As far as caring about them, I certainly did care about the underlying love story--more than usual, in fact. I really was impressed with the decision at the end on stage (after he tosses the money and walks away).
She's a great musical character but no, not appealing. But good villains are hard to find in musicals. The other great musical villain I can think of off the top of my head is in West Side Story, but it was a concept, not a person.
As far as the performances, I'm impressed by how far out on a limb everyone was willing to go. I was really affected by Kidman (whom I normally dislike) and MacGregor. There's a point in the first scene inside the elephant where she's rolling around on the floor pretending to be orgasmic about his "naughty words" and in general trying to play him. It's totally ridiculous until he hits the opening of My Song (or whatever it's called.) It completely cuts through her act and she looks up very startled and completely defenseless. That expression just kills me, every time.
Oh, and gruesome and funny is exactly right for LaV. Especially at the end when the Duke is stalking the guy on the table and making those little pawing gestures at the air.
That is exactly the moment the movie kicks into high gear, for me. For one thing, it's a decent cover and you aren't expecting him to come in on that high note--the first straight song in the film. Two, when I was watching the scene it was funny, but I was expecting it to go on in that vein and have some silly way out of it--instead, it shifted gears very believably. And you're right, her reaction was perfect.
I think Kidman is gorgeous, but she should do more comedy. I think she's only done this and To Die For, and it's significant that she gets her best reviews in both (if no Oscar nominations).
The other great comedy bit was "So Exciting"--even if it wasn't "for a musical", it would stand up well. Good farce, great use of lyrics, and when Christian is making things up off the top of his head but still has time to glare at the Duke while he says evil majarajah I just love it.
And the champagne corks pop!
White font stuff:
The underlying love story didn't grab me at all. He was a slightly dim rube from the country who fell for the first garishly dressed pretty girl he saw. She was a hooker with a great ambition to be an actress - not even a hooker with a heart of gold, she was pretty focused on using her body to get what she wanted - who decided to dally with the cute rube. It also made it pretty obvious from the beginning that she was dying, so you knew right away it would end badly. You're tight about Harold - good mix of commercialism and caring. The Duke was a cardboard charicature straight from the regency romance novels. I recognized it and they played it well, so I didn't object to him as a villian.
Ah well, as I tell LD, different folks have different tastes and wouldn't the world be boring if we were all the same.
I liked the fact that you knew she died right off--particularly at the end. Because what you didn't know was whether he was miserable because he (or she) had betrayed their love or just because she died. Turns out it was just because she died--that when he had a choice of rejecting her call to him (when he's walking out of the theater) or not, he comes back. That's the heart of the movie, to this sentimentalist. (but don't tell anyone).
As for them falling in love--well, of course he falls in love with her because she's beautiful, but I thought they made it reasonably believable that she falls in love with him because for the first time she gives herself the luxury to do so. (the scene at the end with Harold--you told me that all I could manage was the street, but he loves me.) Besides, it's not like there's ever much reason for anyone to fall in love in musicals. Tony and Maria in WSS, Don Lockwood and Cathy in Singin in the Rain, and so on. It's just a given that they fall in love. By those standards, the love story has more grit than almost any movie musical I can think of.
My complaint about the Duke is that I thought he could have played him a bit less ridiculous and a bit more lethal. As it was, you had to take the risk to Christian on faith (believable mainly because of the bald guy--oh, and speaking of funny moments his moves through the stage amused me at the end.)
I still say (stbborn chin stuck out) that it is a nice-to-rent-when-you're-bored quality movie rather than a ooo-gotta-run-to-the-theatre-and-SEE-this quality movie.
However, I will admit that this is strictly a personal preference judgement.
The Snore is more like it. I mean, the Bore. Ha ha ha . . . er. Okay. If you are looking for a heist film wherein the ultimate heist is so-so, and the preparations for same are mundane, and the characters are stock and to a person, uninteresting, this is your baby. It has --
Robert DeNiro-master thief; wants one "last score" so he can "get out".
Angela Bassett-girlfriend; wants to commit to DeNiro, but only if he leaves the life.
Edward Norton-hotshot gambler to Deniro's cool-headed pro.
Marlon Brando-a big fat man who needs the score to get out of dutch with thugs.
It also has a manic computer hacker who lives with his mother. Ha ha ha . . . er.
What may have impressed critic as cool (DeNiro lives in Montreal, owns a jazz club, and dates the hot Bassett) is merely frosting for a hollow cake. DeNiro is about nothing, he speaks in terse blahs, and his criminal work is lame (the opening heist is very "So what?"). The film drags for very long stretches, Brando is fat (he is Sydney Greenstreet times 4) to the point of distraction, no one says much that is interesting, and it is procedurally lazy, in that all of DeNiro is caution and preparedness, yet he takes absurd chances (using cell phones, getting mixed up with Norton without checking his background, paying off a complete stranger who could easily be a cop) because the story requires it. Grade: D.
TO: Kevin Costner
FROM: The Public
RE: Thirteen Days/Future Work
Kevin. Please. No more films requiring an accent or dialect. You suck at them, and your Boston accent as special advisor to the President Kenneth O'Donnell is atrocious.
Actually, while we are at it, so is Thirteen Days, a historically inept (and not quite accurate) drama of the Cuban Missile Crisis told through the eyes of O'Donnell (who most agree was more a fetcher for than a policy force with the Kennedys see John Dean on Thirteen Days). While it is not unreasonable to inflate the involvement of a tertiary character in historical
drama, why they would choose the flat O'Donnell is beyond me. As written in Thirteen Days and played by Costner, O'Donnell has the political instincts and temperment of an eight grader. He is a chump and an amateur. His primary motivation sems to be to have the Kennedys (as played by Bruce Greenwood and Stephen Culp) like him.
Blocky, uniform, anti-climactic, and fatuous (it sometime uses black-and-white in reverence to Camelot), ignore this lame real life "thriller." The only thing that recommends it is Greenwood, who does a decent job conveying President Kennedy's angst and his sense of isolation. Conversely, Culp's Bobby Kennedy is portrayed as borderline stupid with impulse control issues. Grade: D+. Instead, see The Missiles of October
The thing I didn't like about the story was the manufactured sense of crisis. It was scary enough without making things up. Also, given that most of O'Donnell's lines were stolen from Sorenson, why on earth not use Sorenson as the central character? (the answer has something to do with age, I suspect.)
I first saw Missiles of October in high school. Good stuff.
Some great one-liners in there, very predictable in parts, but we were entertained the whole time.
And was that Lauren Bacall in a cameo appearance as a professor?
and look at it is all that you need to do. the plot was stupid, stupid, stupid and filled with holes and characters doing dumb things for no reason other to advance the 'plot'
if you go into it thinking you are watching an anime cartoon only more life-like, then you've got it. another fun activity to fill in the lag time is figuring out who is voicing the different characters.
but, see it in the theater. it is a must to enjoy it. it is just gorgeous to watch.
3 ½ quacks because it was entertaining insomuch the concepts and animation were superb and the plot isn't too distracting.
All this according to CNN.
4th place is completely deserved, imo.
Those of us well versed in our religion (even as we left Mother Church in droves) were fascinated by Weber’s vision of “the greatest story ever told”. Rather then getting one more puling image of a sweet-cheeked Christ put to death by the evil Pharisees, Weber delivered a story that examined the powerful political forces behind the death of Christ. Tim Neely, a man that looked like he had been hounded across the desert for the last three years due to his beliefs, blew away forever the nauseating Aryan Reich image of Christ my generation had grown up with. Carl Andersen’s Judas struck a deep cord in us as he struggled with his love of Christ and his anger and rage for the endless numbers of suffering souls in his world that were not being healed by Christ’s ministry.
The whole opera had an edgy darkness that was compelling to the masses of dissatisfied-with-lies Catholic youth of the time. JC SS was the inevitable response to the feel-good Love ‘n’ Sunshine productions of Hair and Godspell. It resonated with us because we, the generation of Korea and Viet Nam, knew how innocence could be ground up by political machinations.
So it was with some trepidation that my husband and I sat down to watch the revival of Jesus Christ Super Star (2001) on video. We were not amused.
(cont.)
Every performance is filled with unrelenting furor, anger and torment. Rather then communicating the passion inherent in the story, I was left just feeling boredom. “Oh, gee Judas is upset, oh gosh Christ is anguished, and that’s different from two seconds ago!”
The apostles are a faceless boiling mob of arm pumping youths with sneers on their faces, spoiling for a fight. Jérôme Pradon’s Judas swings between foaming at the mouth rage and whiny, eye-rolling petulance. By the time we get to the hanging scene all I could thing was, Thank God, he’s dead.”
And then there is Glenn Carter as Christ. His long blonde tresses and buff physique caused my husband to joking refer to the film as “Barbie Christ Super Star”. It was disconcerting to have such a pretty Christ. Despite Carter’s attempts to paste a holy expression of ethereal love on his face when he caressed Mary Magdalena’s cheek, you got the sneaking suspicion that he was trying to peek down her tunic. He was just too earthy, too “of the flesh”. He looked more like a man capable of running for Senate in Utah then a rebel heretic imbued with unearthly visions of God his Father.
The same could be said about the singing. Though Pradon’s Judas starts out strong, by the time he gets to his defining moment before the Pharisees he is doing more sniveling and swaggering then struggling with the conflicting feelings of love and hate for Christ.
(cont.)
The mishmash of “modern” costuming left me cold. There did not seem to a creative vision that tied it all together. Rather it was like five costumer each picked there favorite “look” leaving us with Prussian uniforms, leather and denim clad Apostles and a Khaki Christ.
All in all, I was left feeling that Jesus Christ Super Star should have been left alone.
Much has been made of the friendship between Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. I imagine that when Ben and Matt were growing up on the not-so-mean streets of Cambridge, Mass., Ben often got permission to do things (crazy kid things, like go to Red Sox games — at night!) because Matt was coming along. "Oh, that nice Matthew is going? Okay, Ben. Just behave, for heaven’s sake." Something tells me that trend continues to this day in studios all over Hollywood. "Okay, Ben, you can make this movie. Just listen to what Matt says, okay?"
Hence my grave concerns that Ben is simply in over his head these days, traipsing through Hollywood for no other reason than that Matt is there, too.
Now I grant you, I think Affleck is hot, and I like him fine in Shakespeare in Love (the author does not). Other than that, she might be on to something.
The only thing I can figure is that this Jessica Reaves must have met me at some time, and now her standards are impossibly high.
Best Vindication: HBO's chilling "Conspiracy" — an understated but awe- inspiring movie detailing the hour-and-a-half meeting where the Nazis hammered out the Final Solution for the Jews — got more nominations than the network's higher-profile "61*," a competent baseball movie, and "Wit," the moving but simplistic story of a professor dying from cancer, which all but grabbed Emmy voters' arms and forced them to write it onto their ballots.
I thought Wit was sublime and very much enjoyed 61*, but I'd still go along with his assessment--although by my count both 61* and Conspiracy got ten nods each.
Conspiracy took enormous risks in both subject matter and setting, and paid off with an enthralling, chilling tale that informs on any number of levels. The dialogue moves easily between almost unimaginably crude racist remarks and pragmatic legalities and logistics.
Kenneth Branagh leads an ensemble cast with a masterful corporate take on Reinhard Heydrich, who literally manages the group to consensus for the Final Solution. Colin Firth as Wilhelm Stuckart, and Stanley Tucci as Adolf Eichmann were both nominated in supporting roles, although Tucci is outshone by both David Threlfall and Nicholas Woodeson as Kritzinger and Hoffman.
Not to be missed.
It just occurred to me that Branagh and Thompson will almost certainly get Best Actor and Actress in Original Film. Together again.
Thompson was outstanding in Wit.
I was just looking up cast members in the IMD last night, and it turns out that Nicholas Woodeson, who played Otto Hoffman (the little man who got sick and said it was the cigar), was Mr. Seymour in Topsy Turvy.
So that's what he looks like without all that hair.
toycheck
I don't remember the scene. It's been a long time since I saw it. But I'll look forward to it.
There are few things more difficult to do than stand up to what at least seems to be the dominant, almost-universally held viewpoint of one's peers.
The film hinted, several times, at the fact that there were people -- even in that room, in positions of "leadership" -- who knew that what was being said and done was incredibly wrong-headed and evil. But they were cowed by the world they found themselves living in.
That's the way it happens. It not only can happen here, it already has.
Oh, absolutely. I'm not sure that was what happened in this case, though.
Heydrich wanted everyone "on board". But he needed to get consensus on implementation method and priority, not persuade everyone as to the need for the project. Most of them had no need of convincing.
A few people did object to the underlying goal, but the risk they presented was distraction. If the majority was spending all their time arguing with these nitwits about the need to kill Jews, how could he keep them focused on gassing and train schedules?
The brilliance of the film is its presentation of this dilemma as a management problem. Heydrich takes a different tack with each of the three main naysayers. The soldier, angry at the corporate doublespeak covering up a gruesome reality, is treated with sympathy and respect--Help us get these desk jockeys in line, that's the best way to help your men. Stuckart is handled as a peer who just hasn't heard the news yet; a friendly warning and reminder that people are watching.
Kritzinger is the only member who is overtly threatened, and there's no hinting about it. As Heydrich observes, he is the only attendee who both objected and had sufficient influence to pull others with him--if not at the meeting, then in the government at large. So alone among the attendees, he is shown the bludgeon. He will give it his support, or a lot of powerful people will do their best to bring him down.
All just another day at the office.
The linked review is much more favorable than my opinion, but represents more the consensus. My opinion is that like most French films, there's a lot of talking and much explaining by characters of their feelings etc. without really giving an explanation at all. I mean, if I say I keep a bottle of vitriol around and you ask why, and I say to throw in the eyes of men who lie, well, that's sort of the same explanation a schizophrenic might give.
Otherwise, I thought it dull and meandering. The only thing that bothered me about the film is Jean Moreau playing another "hell kitten" woman whom all the men go for. The same way women sometimes hate seeing movies in which their sex seems attracted to men who are abusive or otherwise losers, I find it tiresome after a while that so many films portray men as preferring the mysterious crazy to a more conventional female--that being a self-destructive oddball is somehow a turn on.
To that extent, one who thinks art influences life might find such stereotypes counterproductive.
Thus far I have liked Diabolique, Beauty and the Beast and Wages of Fear.
Saying "most French films" is an overstatement since I haven't seen most. But in general, I can't say I've been impressed with the majority of those I've seen. I didn't like Breathless, either, and it's another perennial on the "greatest films" list.
The good thing about foreign films for me, though, is I'm much less able to predict what will happen than with American movies. The mindset is just different. Though with a French selection, it's a good bet that whatever happens there will be a lot of talking before, during and after.
His penis is on his face.
Moulin Rouge is gone from Indy and I'm seriously depressed about it. I just saw it last night in this way out of the way theater, the only one left showing it. It turns out this theater has a fantastic big luminous screen and great sound. I really wanted to see it again there, dammit!!
It's like being dumped by a lover. You never know your last time is gonna be your last time.
Betty Blue
The Summer House (Clothes in the Wardrobe)
Toto Le Hero
Cyrano (w/Girard Depardieu)
Beauty & the Beast
La Femme Nikita
Yes...which goes against my complaint upthread about movies featuring self-destructive females and the men enthralled by them.
Who could dislike a film that starts out with such a "bang"?
I want to see it one more time, too, and I'm afraid it's going to disappear before I get around to it. But hey, all the more reason to get a DVD.
MsNo,
I like Cyrano, a play that is very nearly ageless until Roxanne goes 20 years mourning and Cyrano just never gets around to mentioning who she's really in love with. Until then, it's great stuff. Still, even that was improved upon by the 'Murricans. (g)
I have Entre Nous queued up.
I can't say I've heard of Betty Blue; when did it come out?
Glad to see you mention Betty Blue. I first saw it with a friend in an art house in the La Brea district about 10 years ago. It's still one of my favorites---French or otherwise
Bolero (not the Bo Derek one)
Betty Blue
Indochine
Breathless
Jules & Jim
Children of Paradise
Get Out Your Handerchiefs
Obscure Object of Desire
Day For Night
Shoot the Piano Player
Bicycle Thief
Tons more...
Except maybe Children of Paradise.
I haven't seen Au revoir les enfants recently, but I probably wouldn't hate it. I enjoyed parts of La Grande Illusion.
Oh, no question, that cinches it for me. I may have to finally get my TV in proper stereo too.
Or maybe a new tv. New TVs are always good.
No, I was referring to the 60s French films, all of which are the absolute worst offenders--Jules and Jim, Day for Night, Shoot the Piano Player, and so on.
I still remember the scene from The Story of Adele H, where she is running along the river banks, in and out among the trees, and the camera is obviously in the water tracking her.
And Diva was interesting -- if that was its title. A movie about an opera singer and a boy who makes bootleg copies of her performances.
That's on the list, too. As is Breathless. And Umbrellas of Cherbourg, which I took the time to review a while ago because I was irked.
That's how I feel about all car races.
What did he expect?
I was surprised, until I learned that it was directed by Joe Johnston (October Sky, The Rocketeer, and the silly but fastmoving Honey I Shrunk the Kids) and if that's not shock enough the screenplay was by Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor (Election, Citizen Ruth). That's some serious pedigree for a dino movie.
I want to rent it again--the dog was being noisy as hell, and we had to watch it over two nights because the kids kept interrupting. I'd like to see it w/fewer distractions. So maybe when the kids have moved out we can try again :-)
Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train
Playtime
The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (what "irks Cal excites me)
Celine and Julie Go Boating
Muriel
Contempt
Zero de Conduite
Le Testament D'Orphee
Le Samourai
Ma Nuit Chez Maud
the list goes on and on
The plot and dialogue are, um, lean (efficient?) but at least we are spared more tedious droning to the effect that non-linear equations have proven that natural habitat zoos are impossible in principle.
The super cute wonder kid is not as obnoxious. None of the heroes are "idealistic" environmental terrorists. The allegedly smart people do not behave like complete imbeciles. The leading guy occasionally does something besides stand around and whine about danger.
And the trailer for B.C. is really cool.
I would warn that for some reason the showing I saw was packed with little kids (really little, like 4 and 5 year olds) so if you're bothered by a running commentary of kindergarten voices, see a late show. (Wasn't there a time in history when parents who could not shut their children up actually removed them from the scene, rather than inflicting said noisiness on everyone else? And since when is Jurassic Park 3 a kids movie?)
Yes, the villagers are "real" in their grit and grime and wild beauty and because the film is shot on location we're obliged to compliment the scenery with cliched adjectives("magnificent", "fabulous", even "scenic" - you know any others?) but... The film was a goddamned bore that views from yaks' backs can't relieve. Two hours of French cinematography if you like that kind of thing.
what can i say? how do you screw up cool looking dinos chasing / eating plucky humans? well, they found a way. throw in an inconceivably bad drippy family drama with even worse acting!
this was worse than II in my opinion. when not sidetracked into a will-they-won't-they-who-the-fuck-cares relationship question with Wm H Macy and Mulder's wife, it is a complete retread of the first two movies. you can tell at the beginning who is gonna get killed, some damn kid who is smarter than all the adults combined, and (when not showcasing the same ole Jurassic Park branded dinosaurs) brand new, never-before-seen, dinos with zero explanation of how/why they are even there. and, if i have to see yet another close up of that lead archeologist raising his eyebrow under his Indiana Jones hat, i will literally scream.
what a complete waste of time. i'm glad Ripley got a free ticket, because i probably would have complained if both of us had to pay full price for this.
my advice: endure the yapping kids and pay for a matinee, that's the only way you'll come close to getting your money's worth.
1 quack out of 5 (it woulda been 2 except for a unbelievably stupid talking dino scene)
I didn't find it stupid in an offensive way, just in a B movie way. Compare that with
** Lost World spoilers **
the Julianne Moore character (presented as a wilderness survival expert) droning on and on about T-Rex as a super tracking mommy protector, and then hanging that blood soaked backpack in her tent.
Or the rough tough mercenary who's listening to his walkman despite the fact that he's in an unbelievably dangerous foreign environment where being able to hear a predator might be good thing.
Or the fact that the "good" guys unleash a deadly stampede into a campsite full of hired hands whose chief moral failing is agreeing to help some corporate guys build a zoo.
Or a little girl beating up a bunch of velociraptors with her super gymnastic powers.
This movie is wayyyy better than Lost World. Shorter too.
Jamie:
eh, okay. maybe not worse than II, but certainly as bad. the talking raptor, the kid somehow surviving 8 weeks (!!) by himself when the other guy didn't even make it out of the damn tree, the love story was soo cliché and out of place in this kind of movie, the Raptors just letting them go after they find them with the eggs!!
stupid. yes, i agree, not offensive, but it was just a bad, barely existent cliché riddled 'plot' device movie filled with acting so bad as to only make it more evident that this movie was put out solely to capitalize on a successful chain.
Except for Tea Leoni, that is. Good lord.
2 words: 90 minutes
Yes, in a time and universe far, far away...before parents became convinced punishment for rudeness hurt the little darlings self-esteem and before parents decided every single thing their clones uttered was a bon mot worthy of quoting in the New Yorker...the Shawn years, not the Tina Brown years.
Most parents remove their kids from adult movies if they are misbehaving, unless it is a matinee and something they perceive to be a "kid's movie". If it is a kid's movie and the numbers favor the kids, then you are indeed screwed.
Some parents bring their kids to adult movies and then let them act like kids. But that is hardly a statement about parenting today, any more than the idiots who talk loudly during the show are representative of the state of humanity.
There were parents who took little Junior to adult shows 20-30 years ago, too, and got all huffy when asked to hush him. The reason there are more of them now is not because there are more parents convinced that they have little darlings, but because babysitters are far more expensive than taking the little darling to the movie.
I agree that none of the JPs struck me as kid's movies, and one of the few actual parenting disagreements my ex and I ever had was when I had decided not to take Spawn to the first JP and my ex took him anyway. But then, Spawn loved it and was unharmed.
I'm more than willing to admit I may be remembering incorrectly, but my impression is that moviegoers in general are louder and more disruptive now than when I was a kid. My first guess is that the culprit is the VCR- talking over movies at home becomes a habit that carries into the theater.
My second guess is that I'm full of it and people are no better or worse than they've ever been.
I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on the demographics of moviegoers? Were movies primarily attended by couples, either dating or married? Did people used to go to movies in larger groups as is common now? And then race, age, and all the standard stuff.
For example, I wonder how many people, when referring to the "golden years" of silence are harkening back to the 70s. The early 70s were a lousy time for Joe Sixpack, what with all those boring "auteur" movies out there. The audiences may have been more quiet because only a cinephile would go to The Conversation.
It may be the video player, but we've had TV for a lot longer than that and it's the same dynamic. So the change should be seen a lot earlier.
Speaking only for myself, I remember noisy movie theaters going back to my childhood. But then when I was in Saudi Arabia the open air movie theater was right next to the airport, and we'd lose 2-3 minutes of dialog every time a plane revved its engines. It's possible my standards are low.
And I may have attended mainly "auteur" movies back in the 70s but I went to fairly regular stuff during the 60s (before my enlightenment...ha!) and people were a lot more quiet and respectrful back then. Except, of course, kiddie movies which I attended at times with my son.
um, no NYT subscription
I do happen to think crowds these days are ruder, yes.
and turns out that i do have one.
it's the WSJ i don't have one for cuz they want cash.
I haven't had that experience, but it's possible I go to a lot more crowded crammed theaters than you do. If you only go once in a while, you don't really have a representative sample.
It's also possible that it is regional. Maybe there are more Texans who think suffering silently gets them to heaven quicker, or something. Why on earth would anyone sit through noise and not do something about it?
In any event, I think it most unlikely that people are ruder these days. Our society is less repressive, certainly. But that's a different issue. I'll take the discomfort that comes with having my social norms violated any day in comparison. Especially since I can complain to the management if my social norm is also the one enforced.
Of course, there was the guy at Jurassic Park III the other night screaming "ENOUGH WITH THE FUCKING EYEBROW!!!" . . . (Message # 21373)
I agree with you. I rarely have any problems in movie theaters. My worst problem for years was the "why the hell does the tallest person in the planet sit in front of me?" scenario, and even that has lessened considerably thanks to the new seats.
And perhaps out here in the wild west, we do have ruder people but I don't intend to put myself in situations where I'll be forced to find out.
My worst experience ever was at the symphony, where a man seated right next to me kept making and receiving phone calls, but I just sicced a ferocious little old lady usher on him.
One exception: whenever I go to a movie with a predominantly black audience, there will be a lot of noise. But that is because for some reason black women, in particular, talk back at the screen. "Girlfriend, don't believe his lyin ass!" "That's right. Uh huh."
I'm always more bemused and amused than upset. It's so clearly a behavioral standard difference that there's no point. But then around here, the only time a movie is going to get a predominantly black audience is Lee, Singleton, or Wayans.
I don't know if this is regional or economic since around here the majority of the few blacks are lower income.
There are only two drawbacks at all to this theater: they still have old seats rather than the Star-Trekian control deck type with the moveable arm-rests AND it can be hell to try and get in to see a picture opening weekend.
The audiences are predominantly UCLA students since the theater is in the heart of Westwood Village, but as rambunctious as they can be before the lights go out at showtime they are an incredibly appreciative film audience and I've never, not even once been disturbed by anyone talking or mucking about during the film.
This is, however the only theater that my roommate and I fully agree on.
She is willing and happy to frequent theaters that I absolutely refuse to set foot in. We have different irritant buttons. I won't go someplace that requires forty-minutes and a stunt-driving license just to park. She dislikes attending any theater that doesn't look well-kept. (I don't care what the carpet and wall-paper looks like so long as the seats and the screens are okay.)
This means that I won't go to the Century 14 at the Galleria and she has to have her arm put in a vice to convince her to go to the Mann Culver (affectionately known as the Mann Ghetto).
Fortunately we're both fond of attending movies by ourselves.
The Comfort of Strangers was the film that provided my Pinter epiphany. I had a horrid Theater Instructor who would go on and on and on about how NOT to do Pinter and all of the things that it WASN'T but she could never explain to us actually perform his works or what he was all about.
The Comfort of Strangers made it bundantly clear and I just wanted to slap my old Prof.
The only one that I can think of off the top of my head that I KNOW has valet parking is up at Universal Studios and I loathe seeing films there as well. The screens are small, the smell is horrid and the audiences are obnoxious. Not to mention the fact that you have to pay outrageous amounts to park, they only validate for half the parking price, their movies cost 50 cents more than nearly everyone else in town and the construction of many of the theaters severely impedes the sound.
And did I mention that they have the worst crowds in town?
Anyway, I end up seeing a movie there every month or so because my brother manages a restaurant up on the Citywalk and if we go to a show it's the most convenient place to see one. Additionally, he can check back in on the restaurant during closing to make sure everything is okay.
Yes, what a wonderfully, disturbing, nasty little film. I haven't spent a whole lot of time with Pinter. I think my professor gave me an aversion and then once I felt I'd figured it out I never really went back and explored him. I meant to, but you know how all of that goes.
I'm still planning to read the Classics.
Is it income related at all, do you think? Or maybe that middle and upper income blacks aren't usually enough of a majority to set the behavioral norms at movie theaters?
I guess the way to check this out would be in places where there are middle/upper income black communities. I know DC and Dallas have these communities--does Chicago?
There are higher-income black communities in Chicago, but because of the way movie theaters seem to be set up these days--megaplexes drawing large crowds from all over, instead of the neighborhood theater--it would be hard to determine who is yelling at the screen.
Anyway, we're pretty urban. I've heard more talking to the screens in the more suburban areas----up in the north San Fernando Valley. Also, as I said, it depends on the film. No talking to the screen during Knight's Tale but plenty during Scream.
Not only was the theatre a full house, but given who the scantly loin cloth star of the movie was, the audience was comprised of mainly relatively young males such as myself and my best friend. It was like going to see the Man Show, with Adam Corola and that other obnoxious fuck of a host (What's his name ?).
With suspension of belief, as well as our tongue and cheeks, firmly in check, the movie begins innocently enough, but within 15 minutes quickly succumbs to its incredibly horrible production, acting and directing. The actress's appearance -- which is the reason we went, and I suspect the reason every other male was there -- quickly takes a backseat to its cartoon quality. Clever quips, putdowns and laughter could be heard all over the theatre as different seating sections would "talk" to the screen with an uncanny rythym. It wasn't meant to be a comedy, but it was so hard to leave this dog with the chemistry that had assembled for this one showing. It was definitely a case where the crowd made the movie, but it also makes me wonder about studio executives which approve these duds year after year. Horrible, just horrible.
...It did have one saving grace -- Sheena is shown bathing next to a waterfall. Yum, yum!
E-mail coming up, by the way.
Anyway, no Jeff Goldblum in this one, and it doesn't suffer a bit for that lacking. Also, thankfully, only one cute kid, who is actually central to the plot - the 12 y.o. son of a goof-ball couple who manage to trick whatsisname - the star - into helping search for their son, who ends up trapped on Isla Sorna following a freak para-skiing accident. But sadly (for me) only a couple of quick scenes with Laura Dern, who is now somehow apparently a VIP of the highest order - minor spoiler ahead:
After our heroes manage to locate the missing satellite phone in a rather disgusting place, they call Dern at home, who never hears the complete message, but deduces correctly where they are by the roars of the dinosaur that's about to try to eat them. We don't see how she manages it, but she sends the Navy and Marines to the island to rescue them.
Anyway, this one has more - and more interesting dinosaurs - than either of the first two. In particular, the new "Super Predator" (forget its name), and the pteradactyls were very well rendered.
They have also seen fit (and it's about time) to do away with the rippling puddle/water glass as prelude to dino appearances, which made them much less predictable and more terrifying for my daughter, who was actually scared for once.
The SFX just keep getting better, and by now we're all used to suspending our disbelief for this series -and this one requires some major leaps. But all-in-all, it works very well.
Great summer fun.
Mostly young teen to young adult. And despite the fact that I counted at least 6 former juvies (including 3 of a set of wild quads - all boys and all of whom have been locked up at one time or another), the crowd was very quiet except for the occasional group gasp, and a scream here and there.
No one in the crowd of about 100 even got up to pee during the movie.
I've been on a bit of a Michael Caine binge lately; he really is a wonderful actor, enlivening even the most pedestrian fare. We rented all the Harry Palmers a couple of weeks ago, a decidedly guilty pleasure. Nobody does cynicism better.
It turns out that AMC is showing it tomorrow at 1:30 EST! Don't miss it.
All the movie buffs on this thread probably have seen it four times (if they didn't hate it) but I saw the 1997 Canadian film, "The Sweet Hereafter" for the first time a few days ago.
It was superb. If there are others, like me, who missed this little gem the first time around, I recommend it. It's dark, and there isn't a lot of uplift in it, but the performances (Ian Holm, Sarah Polley) were first-rate.
'Way better than anything that the Academy found interesting that year.
Rififi
Blacklisted American director Jules Dassin had been five years between projects, even after moving to France to try and recover his successful career (The Naked City, Brute Force). Broke and near despair, he was finally handed a single opportunity, to film a potboiler novel he loathed for only $200K.
He resolved the source material problem by co-writing a screenplay that eliminated everything but a minor incident--a carefully planned burglary of a Parisian jewelry store. He used the money to fund the best available craftsmen behind the cameras, choosing unknowns and hasbeens for the onscreen talent. When a contract dispute caused one actor to walk, Dassin filled in himself as the fourth member of the team (written as an Italian who didn't speak French, to cover up Dassin's lack of the lingo).
The result: a brutal, suspenseful tale of the planning, execution, and aftermath of a breakin performed by four career criminals out for one last score. Rififi was a critical and financial phenomenon, winning raves and record returns throughout the world; it created the heist genre and still stands as the benchmark by which all entries are assessed. Dassin won the Cannes prize for Best Director, restored his career and got to marry Melina Mercouri.
Rififi's influence really can't be overstated, particularly in the presentation of the heist, as the thieves execute their meticulous plan with nothing more complicated than simple tools, an umbrella, and a fire extinguisher. (The exposition is so accurate that many countries cut out key scenes to avoid copycat thefts.)
Dassin presents the heist in screen silence--a convention that has been faithfully copied ever since, the genre equivalent of the musical's "you're going out a chorus girl, but you're coming back a star!". Unlike other landmark films, this one hasn't aged almost at all and certainly doesn't suffer from familiarity.
Eliminate the influential aspects and Rififi still has plenty to offer. The characters are unglorified thugs and likeable for it. The performances are solid or better (Jean Servais as the aging ex-con stands out), the story engrossing, the dialog in the noir tradition, with a French twist. ("Bonjour, beautiful, put your moneymaker right here.") The technical aspects are gorgeous--cinematography, set design, and score particularly. Paris is used as effectively as San Francisco is used in Bullitt--Dassin spent hours looking for evocative street corners, alleys, and riverfronts.
Made outside the confines of the Hollywood production code, the brutality and sexuality isn't hedged and doesn't date. I read a few reviews that complained about the film's treatment of women but I'm not sure why. All the female characters come off quite well. (They are all more than a tad bodacious, particularly Mario's buxom and bubbly wife.)
The heist is Act II, with a major chunk of the story left untold The heist serves as the catalyst, not the outcome. Regardless of how one might feel about the outcome, it is hard not to admire the structure. Throughout the film, the four thieves are primarily defined not by indivdiual characteristics, but by their relationships--with each other, with loved ones, with enemies. Dassin uses these relationships to drive the story to its resolution and pulls it off beautifully. Had I not been forewarned, I might have found the third act most annoyingly "French".
I suppose Rififi could be considered one of the few positive aspects of Hollywood's McCarthy period. Dassin slips in an editorial comment about it; note what happens to the guy who rats someone out.
Not to be missed; check it out at your first opportunity.
There ought to be a rule in Hollywood that the industry cannot effectively satirize itself. The line between satire and reality is so infinitely small.
Not much humor in this movie. An ensemble act more than a star treatment for Julia Roberts. Christopher Walken in a long gray wig is wasted in a cameo as the demented director of a movie not yet seen by Stanley Tucci, the studio head. Cusack and Catherine Zeta-Jones-Douglas whatever are former married couple who starred in several popular movies, but now they are separated and the fans are having a hard time liking them. Hank Azaria has the Castillian accent from hell and plays Zeta-Jones new lover.
Amost no heat between anybody in this movie. Sadly, Billy Crystal isn't very funny. At one point, he tells a joke to a waitress. She walks off with no reaction. "No laugh, no tip," he says. In his frustration, he sounded like he could have been talking about the movie.
Elliot,
Almost? I've failed, then. (sniff)
They also said the Zulus had carried pouches of cannibis snuff which worked almost as an hallucingen on the warriors...they were even more fearless than usual.
Since "For Love of the Game," Sam Raimi has established himself as a plodding by-the-numbers director. I'm not sure how he got from the frenetic and fun "Evil Dead 2" to this sad state, but there you have it.
Cate Blanchett plays a Southerner who has "a gift" - she can look at cards and see, and sometimes, she can see without the cards. That established, Raimi gives us "Murder in a Small Town", with Blanchett's gift at the center. The problem lies in the fact that Blanchett comes along with her gift, and as written, she is senseless. She courts danger, she puts the lives of her children in jeopardy, and she flaunts her ability to uncover a murderer before every conceivable suspect. And the killer is evident early on.
On the upside, as the sultry sleaze of this Southern town, Katie Holmes The Real Gift is naked.
First laugh, 18 minutes in. None forthcoming in the next 5 minutes. Turned off.
Saving Silverman
I chuckled throughout. Silverman (Jason Biggs from American Pie) begins dating a psychiatrist (Amanda Peet) who becomes his puppetmaster (her words) and demands that he drop his two loser friends, Jack Black (High Fidelity) and Steve Zahn (Happy Texas). They kidnap her to stop her ruination of the triad. That's about it.
Black, Zahn and to a lesser extent Biggs are funny guys, so even when the material falters, they do not. Grade: C+.
No. I'm only 17 myself, dude.
carry on.
What surprised me about the gift is the rather un-gifted performance of last year's Oscar winner, Hilary Swank.
I still haven't been able to bring myself to see Boys Don't Cry but everything I've heard has led me to believe that Swank heartily deserved her Oscar.
Granted, The Gift, is not a great film or script, but I was still disappointed in her performance as the battered wife.
The problem is endemic in Hollywood. Make people Southerners, and they eeeeeeeee-mote.
She is wonderful in Boys Don't Cry, but the film is unsettling to the point of self-defeat.
Pssst, Janjon--for Francis' age, see Grey's post in Suggestions.
Tilda's coming to town this week with "The Deep End" -- a remake of Ophuls'"The Reckless Moment."
Tilda Swinton isn't in The Gift. It's Kate Blanchette ---who could be a prettier sister to Swinton---- and Hilary Swank who resembles neither of them.
I've never seen Swank in anything else. As I said, I just can't bring myself to watch Boys Don't Cry. I think I've just built up the horror of it too much in my mind.
it's a good renter, but i'm glad i didn't bother to see it in the theater.
misc highlights:
good, goofy comedy ... 3 quacks out of 5
My bro and I rented OBWT lastThursday night and laughed our asses off. This is a soundtrack that I must own soon.
I like the Camper Van Beethoven version of O Death better musically, but I agree with Ducky that the Singing Dancy KKK flag corps was very funny.
I'd heard the other two are singing, but on the CD, I didn't see them credited.
** Mild spoilers, not that it much matters**
Boys Don't Cry was a total miss for me. I thought the most interesting thing about the story was that this young woman was able to reinvent herself completely as a guy, but having done so wanted nothing more in life than to marry some trailer girl and hang out swilling beer with a bunch of redneck criminals. That combination of total imagination coupled with total lack of imagination struck me.
The director evidently thought the story was about the distressing lack of tolerance among violent ex-cons. Add to that the relatively unsympathetic nature of the main character (a petty thief, a liar, someone with a rather questionable understanding of the idea of consent) and a totally ludicrous lesbian scene that leaves one wondering if the director understood her protagonist at all and you're left with a terribly violent and unpleasant incoherent mess. It all adds up to not much of anything.
Great performance by Swank though.
MsNo,
Do Not Seek The Treasure!
WE THOUGHT YOOOO WUZ UH TOAD!!
DO NOT SEEK THE TREASURE!
It recently occurred to me that there will probably never be a theatrical release of Zulu, which is too bad.
There are three if you count the instrumental by John Hartford...
Buena Vista Home Entertainment, a unit of Disney, will go to court next week to ask a judge to stop trailer distributor Video Pipeline[.com] from providing some parts of its movie trailers online.
Buena Vista, which is trying to increase its share of the home-video retail market, hopes to become a major online destination for people who want to buy its movies. If the company succeeds in getting a preliminary injunction, online movie retailers such as Netflix and others might not be able to offer some movie previews to their customers.
Well, apparently they want people to come to their site to view trailers. They're willing to sacrifice the free advertising they get from the movie retailers to promote their website.
Time will tell if they made