MUSTA BEEN SOCIETIES FAULT
click on photo
But Lieberman has emphasised his Jewishness, has he not?
15022. CalGal - 10/2/2000 1:32:03 PM
By American standards of behavior, he is extremely Jewish. He's about as far out on the end of the spectrum as could be acceptable in politics.
15023. Raskolnikov - 10/2/2000 1:38:04 PM
Cal: my point is that it is very common for a person to identify with a specific religion, even if they deviate from that religion's official teachings on significant issues, or don't devoutly follow all tenets of the religion. We rarely point this out when it is in regard to religions with which we are very familiar, so why is it suddenly an issue when the guy in question claims to be an Orthodox Jew?
I have this image of a Rabbi questioning whether JJ is really a Christian if he missed Church once last month, didn't drink communion wine because he is a teetotaler (no idea if JJ is - this is just a hypthetical) and didn't tithe.
15024. CalGal - 10/2/2000 1:41:45 PM
Rask,
I wasn't rebutting you; I was agreeing with you.
15025. Raskolnikov - 10/2/2000 1:49:02 PM
I was partially responding to your comment about "cultural Catholics". I think it is more than just culture, which implies a secularization. One can still be, religiously, a Catholic, and use birth control pills. It just isn't a enough of a tenet of the faith to exclude someone based on that particular deviation.
15026. CalGal - 10/2/2000 1:58:09 PM
I don't know that "cultural" means "secularization", although maybe it does. I think many people believe in God, vaguely and non-specifically, but go to a particular church because it makes them feel comfortable. They follow the outline but not the reality.
Since the Protestant faith has so few guidelines that anyone agrees on, most politicians can get away with any behavior provided they just vaguely talk about their belief in God. If they get specific--no matter the reason--I think they are generally called on it if their behavior doesn't match their beliefs.
It just doesn't happen very often, since most RR advocates aren't in office.
15027. bubbaette - 10/2/2000 2:23:33 PM
I'm a whiskytarian.
15028. PsychProf - 10/2/2000 2:27:11 PM
MUSTA BEEN SOCIETIES FAULT
click on photo
15029. CalGal - 10/2/2000 2:58:01 PM
Hmm. My last post seems to have been lost.
That is just disgusting, to sue the parents. Barring specific and detailed knowledge of their child's intent, they weren't responsible. So why waste time with this?
15030. bubbaette - 10/2/2000 3:11:27 PM
An outlet for grief?
15031. bubbaette - 10/2/2000 3:12:00 PM
As in "I'm hurting, someone must be to blame."
15032. CalGal - 10/2/2000 3:13:55 PM
Sure, but when a judge takes it seriously, it goes beyond that.
15033. PsychProf - 10/2/2000 3:16:30 PM
Cal...a loaded gun in the bedroom would clue me in on the subject of intent...I would at least conclude that some thing was gonna be shot at, and I would also ask what that was...aside from the legalities of illegally owning a machinegun-like firearm.
15034. JJBiener - 10/2/2000 3:39:39 PM
Pelle - But Lieberman has emphasised his Jewishness, has he not?
I didn't say he wasn't Jewish. I said he wasn't Orthodox. In Judaism, the designations (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform) are based on how one practices his religion. Orthodox Jews keep kosher, follow strict rules on how they observe the Sabbath, etc. If one does not do these things, he isn't really Orthodox.
I am a Reform Jew and just barely that. I am not being critical of Lieberman for how he practices, I just questioning the people who claim he is Orthodox. Being Orthodox is not compatible with a life in public office. There are too many restrictions on behavior.
15035. JJBiener - 10/2/2000 3:44:37 PM
Rask - I have this image of a Rabbi questioning whether JJ is really a Christian if he missed Church once last month, didn't drink communion wine because he is a teetotaler (no idea if JJ is - this is just a hypthetical) and didn't tithe.
He would be right to question since I am not a Christian. Suppose someone claimed to be Amish and he had an apartment, car, stereo, and he worked for a internet company. You would be a little skeptical, wouldn't you?
15036. Wombat - 10/2/2000 3:44:51 PM
JJ:
Isn't Lieberman a "modern" orthodox? They can and do eschew yarmulkes, and allow themselves a slightly more interpretation of what you can or cannot do on the Sabbath. As a reasonably observant Reform type, I am in no position to criticize.
15037. Wombat - 10/2/2000 3:45:53 PM
"a slightly looser interpretation..."
15038. CalGal - 10/2/2000 4:02:12 PM
PP,
As I recall, they didn't find a loaded shotgun. But that wouldn't make them more than mildly negligent at best.
15039. JJBiener - 10/2/2000 4:07:15 PM
Wombat - How would a "modern" Orthodox Jew then differ from a Conservative Jew?
15040. Wombat - 10/2/2000 4:10:43 PM
JJ:
I really don't know. Do Conservatives (Jews, of course) keep the genders separate? Do they have lady rabbis? Do Conservatives keep kosher? Observe the Sabbath?
15041. Raskolnikov - 10/2/2000 4:16:24 PM
"I didn't say he wasn't Jewish. I said he wasn't Orthodox. In Judaism,
the designations (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform) are based on how
one practices his religion. Orthodox Jews keep kosher, follow strict
rules on how they observe the Sabbath, etc. If one does not do these
things, he isn't really Orthodox. "
There is no latitude given? If you don't wear a beanie, or can't always keep kosher, you get disowned by your synogogue?
"He would be right to question since I am not a Christian."
Now why was I sure you were?
"Suppose someone claimed to be Amish and he had an apartment, car, stereo, and he worked for a internet company. You would be a little skeptical, wouldn't you?"
I grew up near an Amish community. How about if they all claim to be Amish, but have no problem catching a ride in a neighbor's car, or using a neighbor's phone to make a call?
Basically, in almost every religious group I see, save strict cults, there is considerable latitude in the extent to which people adhere to the tenets of the faith without being categorized as apostates, or not "real" members of the faith.
15042. JJBiener - 10/2/2000 4:22:00 PM
Wombat - Do Conservatives (Jews, of course) keep the genders separate?
No
Do they have lady rabbis?
I don't think so. I think that is strictly a Reform schtick.
Do Conservatives keep kosher?
Not strictly. They follow some but not all of the rules.
Observe the Sabbath?
Yes, but again not as strictly.
15043. JJBiener - 10/2/2000 4:33:05 PM
Rask - There is no latitude given? If you don't wear a beanie, or can't always keep kosher, you get disowned by your synogogue?
You misunderstand. Judaism does not have sects like Chrsitianity does. Designations are based on how strictly you follow the tenets of the religion.
Now why was I sure you were [Christian]?
I don't know. You are frequently mistaken. This is just one more example.
Basically, in almost every religious group I see, save strict cults, there is considerable latitude in the extent to which people adhere to the tenets of the faith without being categorized as apostates, or not "real" members of the faith.
There is tremendous lattitude in how Jews practice their faiths. The designation exist to identify where an individual (or a congregation)falls within that spectrum. If a person doesn't keep kosher, doesn't attend services, etc., they don't occupy that part of the spectrum designated as Orthodox. He would fall into the Conservative or Reform areas.
If a politician favors higher taxes, more government regulation, Federal power over the states, expanded welfare programs, etc., you wouldn't consider him conservative no matter what he claims to be.
15044. Raskolnikov - 10/2/2000 4:44:20 PM
"I don't know. You are frequently mistaken. This is just one more
example."
Nah, it is because I always confuse you with Boomerjeff.
"If a politician favors higher taxes, more government regulation, Federal power over the states, expanded welfare programs, etc., you wouldn't consider him conservative no matter what he claims to be."
We aren't talking about ideology here, but behavior. What if a person usually keeps kosher, and observes Sabbath practices *most* of the time (as I understand Lieberman tries to do)?
I really don't know enough about Judaism to argue this point any further, but it seems you are drawing a very fine line around something that Orthodox Jews don't even seem to be doing. Given your tendentious nature toward any Democrat, my skepticism of your take is sensible.
15045. Wombat - 10/2/2000 4:47:14 PM
JJ:
I would imagine, then, that modern orthodox separate the sexes at services, keep kosher more strictly, and observe the sabbath (more strictly).
15046. JJBiener - 10/2/2000 5:04:02 PM
Rask - I am sorry if you got the impression that I was being overly critical of Lieberman. That is not my intention. I was just curious as to why no one mentioned the disparity between his actions and his Orthodox beliefs. With the media and other politicians eager to cry hypocrisy at the drop of a hat, I was curious as to why nothing has ever been mentioned.
Wombat's suggestion is probably correct. Lieberman is probably somewhere between Orthodox and Conservative.
15047. JJBiener - 10/2/2000 5:06:29 PM
Wombat - As I mentioned in my post to Rask, I think you are probably right. I've just never heard of Modern Orthodox. This isn't surprising since I just come in just under the wire on the extreme Reform side of things. Other members of my family are far more religious that I.
15048. Raskolnikov - 10/2/2000 5:17:52 PM
I did a bit of digging. Evidently half of American Orthodox Jews are "modern", which tries to balance Orthodoxy with the ability to function in society - allowing the yarmulke to be optional outside of church if it interferes with work, allowing limited work on the sabbath if necessary (Lieberman's Rabbi was quoted as seeing no problem with him taking the oath of office on the Sabbath, for instance).
15049. JJBiener - 10/2/2000 5:27:53 PM
Rask - Thanks for the info. While I do respect Orthodox Jews for their ability to maintain their beliefs in a world that is openly hostile to them, I think some compromises are necessary to exist effectively in the modern world.
15050. lemwalker - 10/2/2000 7:08:23 PM
First survive, then worry about moral consequences.
15051. Al D - 10/2/2000 8:38:12 PM
J.J
I certainly know you are Jewish, as you have mentioned it several times. I also you were nice enough to answer stamper when he posed the question, "What is a Jew?" The above remarks shows how knee jerk one can be once a poster is pegged, for there is not one word of criticism of Lieberman in your posts, while it is obvious to some you are an anti-democrat/semite.
15052. rubberducky - 10/2/2000 9:09:08 PM
Re: Message # 15033, PsychProf.
Cal...a loaded gun in the bedroom would clue me in on the subject of intent...I would at least conclude that some thing was gonna be shot at, and I would also ask what that was...aside from the legalities of illegally owning a machinegun-like firearm.
this is, pardon me, insane. what you are basically saying is that it's the gun's fault ... if the gun had to be shot at something (which is silly) then why not one of the many target ranges or can of Coke in the back yard with all the other rednecks?
to blame anyone else so entirely misses the point
15053. IrvingSnodgrass - 10/2/2000 10:37:31 PM
I realize I'm weighing in late on this topic, but I just saw it, and as the resident "Mr. Language Person," I wanted to add my two cents...
In Message # 14914, Ace says:
And you forget that people who win Spelling Bees aren't merely "rote memorizers" -- these are the people who know how to spell 95% of all tough words simply by osmosis (from reading) or by an innate, deep understanding of English phonetics; they only have to "rote memorize" the bizarre, obscure words.
He's right. There are something like 12 rules (which I've seen, but can't remember where) which cover something like 99% of all English words. English spelling is not nearly as unpredictable as some people would think.
There are, of course, exceptions which don't follow any rules, but these are rather rare, and often involve borrowed words.
True exceptions in common words (like "weird" or "shoe" or "of") are even rarer, and don't cause many problems for English speakers.
15054. Stumbo - 10/3/2000 12:19:38 AM
Jones, #15006:
The name sounds familiar... I think a fairly long piece by him was posted in the Ed. thread, almost a year ago.
It was complete nonsense, through and through; every paragraph had at least one piece of silliness. One example that I still remember: it can't be the case that U.S. schools are worse than those in other countries, because the percentage of students that graduate and are accepted into college is higher in the U.S. than in those countries!
15055. Wombat - 10/3/2000 8:30:20 AM
JJ:
Perhaps "modern orthodoxy" (oxymoron?) has not made it out to the hinterlands yet. My neighborhood is full of them. The rabbi of such a congregation lives across the street from us. Apparently the sabbath ban on using or operating mechanical devices still exists. Several kids hanging out at his house on the sabbath asked a gentile neighbor if he could move the rabbi's car from the driveway so they could shoot hoops.
Media/Leiberman: I imagine the media is treading lightly on any possible "contradictions" in theory vs. practice lest ignorance be mistaken for antisemitism.
15056. JJBiener - 10/3/2000 12:24:11 PM
Wombat - I imagine the media is treading lightly on any possible "contradictions" in theory vs. practice lest ignorance be mistaken for antisemitism.
Good point. That is not something I considered. I think you're right.
15057. JRoth - 10/3/2000 1:15:50 PM
Wombat,
Are you the local shabbes goy? I've met a fair number of modern orthodox in NYC. As a group they are much more interested in defining how they ARE NOT like the Hasidim than they are in explaining differences with conservatives. I agree that Lieberman is on the spectrum between MO and C. BTW, yesterday's Jerusalem Post carried an article quoting Orthodox rabbis who are upset at Lieberman's pronouncements on Halakha; specifically his squirming around the issue of intermarriage.
15058. PsychProf - 10/3/2000 1:18:53 PM
RubberDummy...insane is a legal term only...I guess you meant I was crazy. Perhaps. In any case, I have no idea what your post is about, and from the tenor of it I don't care to. My intent was to emphasize that parents should be aware of their children's activities, and hence we as a society will have to determine what further responsibilites are theirs to assume. The link was presented in consideration thereof. I suggest now that you proceed to have carnal knowledge of yourself.
15059. JJBiener - 10/3/2000 1:21:45 PM
JRoth - I don't envy the tightrope Lieberman has to navigate. It will be interesting to see if politics or religion win out, or if he is really able to balance the two successfully. Recent reports seem to indicate he isn't doing very well.
15060. rubberducky - 10/3/2000 1:25:23 PM
PP:
oh, i get carnel with others than just myself, thanks though
P.S. if i want to call you crazy i will - i didn't in case, fwiw.
15061. Wombat - 10/3/2000 1:47:44 PM
JRoth:
Not being goyishe, no. I agree with your take on modern orthodox vs. Hasidim, rather than Conservative.
As an American, I--and Senator Leiberman--would discount rabbinical pronouncments from Israel. The last time they got involved was in the debate on "who is a Jew" legislation, which if it had passed, would have devastated Israeli fundraising in the US.
Leiberman does have a tricky dance around intermarriage. My--reform--temple does welcome interfaith couples, which is one of the reasons we joined it. Even there, there are some tensions.
15062. msgreer - 10/4/2000 2:28:04 PM
800-973-2211. Curious? Go to Health Thread.
15063. greystoke - 10/5/2000 11:50:26 AM
Study critical of parental discipline.
The nationwide survey, released Wednesday, found that 61 percent of the parents condone spanking as a regular form of punishment for young children despite research indicating corporal punishment can be harmful.
Fifty-seven percent of the parents said even a 6-month-old child can be spoiled, a belief the survey coordinators said is incorrect.
"If you don't pick up a baby when he is crying, you can build up his levels of stress and distress," said Kyle Pruett, professor of psychiatry at Yale University's Child Study Center. "Responding to your child's needs is not spoiling."
...
However, he was concerned about findings that suggested many parents had unrealistic expectations of behavior -- for example, expecting that a child of 15 months should be able to share toys.
"We're potentially raising overly aggressive children who react to situations with intimidation and bullying, instead of cooperation and understanding; children who won't be able to tolerate frustration, wait their turn or respect the needs of others," Pruett said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone should kick this Pruett guy's ass.
15064. greystoke - 10/5/2000 12:08:02 PM
FBI seeks couple involved in lingerie party rape scam.
According to police, Todd is suspected of approaching women, usually in their late teens or early 20s, on the 16th Street Mall or other locations. She allegedly introduced herself as a representative of Victoria's Secret and asked the young women to attend a party where they could try on and buy lingerie.
The suspect would take the victims' phone numbers, then call a few days later and arrange to pick them up. The three sexual assault victims were taken to a location in Aurora, where they were raped at gunpoint by a masked man.
15065. Ronski - 10/5/2000 4:08:03 PM
15066. EricCartman - 10/6/2000 12:53:10 AM
Football spreads are officially up in the Sports Thread! Get 'em while they're hot....and somebody volunteer to take over for a while, 'cause I'm outta here for a while.
Buenos nachos, cabróns.
15067. JudithAtHome - 10/6/2000 9:58:21 AM
I heard from my friend in Athens that another ferry went down 3 days after the one that made the news; 27 Americans on board the second one and all were saved but one man died from a heart attack after.
He said the first ferry had been red flagged 8 days before. He's told me before how corrupt the government is over there and that brides of officials are the only way to do business. He said the life boats couldn't be launched due to corrosion and many coats of paint on the devices that launch the boats and many life jackets were waterlogged and no good. Also, these ferries travel to numerous small outer islands and the only rescue people are fisherman...it's the equivilent of sending a village volunteer fire department to contain those huge fires out west.
15068. CalGal - 10/6/2000 12:21:18 PM
The wives are holding things up? But it's such a macho country.
15069. robertjayb - 10/6/2000 10:27:41 PM
.
The war on drugs keeps rolling along...
LEBANON, Tenn. (AP) -- A 61-year-old man was shot to death by police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug raid on the wrong house.
Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door.
The two officers, 25-year-old Kyle Shedran and 24-year-old Greg Day, were placed on administrative leave with pay.
''They need to get rid of those men, boys with toys,'' said Adams' 70-year-old widow, Loraine.
15070. robertjayb - 10/7/2000 6:37:51 PM
.
Hold the pickles for me, please...
"KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- A woman who claims she was permanently scarred after a hot pickle from a McDonald's hamburger fell on her chin is suing the restaurant for more than $100,000.
"Veronica M. Martin claims in a lawsuit filed in Knox County Circuit Court that the burn also caused her physical and mental pain. She is seeking $110,000. Her husband, Darrin Martin, is seeking $15,000, because he ''has been deprived of the services and consortium of his wife.''
"The hamburger ''was in a defective condition or unreasonably dangerous to the general consumer and in particular to (Veronica Martin),'' according to the two-page lawsuit, which was reported in The Knoxville News-Sentinel on Saturday."
15071. Greystoke - 10/8/2000 9:43:46 AM
Red light running revisited.
Law enforcement agencies say cameras are a useful weapon and have reduced red-light violations in cities such as Beverly Hills, Oxnard and San Francisco by at least 40%.
"I expect we will see similar numbers, but I would like to break all the records," said Los Angeles City Councilwoman Laura Chick. "Photo enforcement is another tool that has proven to be extremely effective in reducing accidents, and I have no doubt it will do the same here."
...
Over the past five years, there have been nearly 12,000 red-light accidents in Los Angeles, police said, resulting in 73 deaths.
More than half of Americans surveyed by the Federal Highway Administration admit to running red lights. And 96% of those polled worry they will get hit by someone driving through a red light.
Mounted on a pole and marked by a sign, a camera is triggered only when a motorist enters an intersection against a red light. Those who enter during a yellow light or exit on a red don't activate the camera.
The cameras are programmed to shoot at least two pictures, which are analyzed by a Lockheed technician before being referred to police. No citation is mailed unless the pictures clearly show the driver's face and front license plate. Between 30% and 40% of offenders escape citation because of unusable photos.
...
Currently, cameras are used in only 10 states.
The state with the worst record of fatal red-light collisions is Arizona, according to an insurance institute study, with Phoenix, Mesa and Tucson ranking among the four worst cities in the country. Los Angeles ranks 14th.
California is viewed as a leader in photo enforcement, with 10 of the nation's 50 participating cities.
15072. Greystoke - 10/8/2000 9:45:16 AM
City officials are supportive. The cameras will cost the city virtually nothing because Lockheed will pay for installation and maintenance. The company will receive about one-third of each $271 ticket for a red-light offense, according to its contract. Its share of the ticket revenue may bring the city more than $5 million during the first year of operation, said the LAPD's Gambill.
...
Citations have also been challenged in court. A San Diego judge threw out a red-light citation in April, noting that the speed evidence documented by the camera was inadmissible under the state's speed-trap law. City attorneys argued that the law didn't apply because the ticket was issued for running a red light, not for speeding. The case was never appealed.
15073. Greystoke - 10/8/2000 9:55:11 AM
Kids use school computers to make counterfeit money; use it to buy cafeteria food.
As many as 10 teenagers in the Antelope Valley are under investigation over counterfeit money allegedly made with their home computers and used to buy food in their middle school cafeteria, authorities said.
The bills, mostly of low denominations, appeared real enough to fool lunch room employees at the Joe Walker Middle School in Quartz Hill. They were discovered only when a cashier was counting the money late last week.
...
Brian Nagel, assistant special agent in charge of the Secret Service's Southern California bureau, said the agency never comments on cases involving minor suspects. The Secret Service is the federal law enforcement agency responsible for investigating counterfeiting.
Nagel said counterfeiting has risen sharply in recent years as more and more technologically savvy people use their home computers, scanners and color printers to make money. Usually, however, it is far inferior to phony bills made with offset printers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"real enough to fool lunch room employees", huh? Wow, high quality stuff.
I'm thinking that this may be a call for help from starving children.
15074. Greystoke - 10/8/2000 11:00:37 AM
Link to robertjayb's article about the drug raid.
John Adams was watching television when his wife heard pounding on the door. Police say they identified themselves and wore police jackets. Loraine Adams said she had no indication the men were police.
"I thought it was a home invasion. I said, `Baby, get your gun!"' she said, sitting amid friends and relatives gathered at her home to cook and prepare for Sunday's funeral.
Police say her husband fired first with a sawed-off shotgun and they responded. He was shot at least three times and died later at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville.
Loraine Adams said she was handcuffed and thrown to her knees in another room.
...
"We did the best surveillance we could do, and a mistake was made," Lebanon Police Chief Billy Weeks said. "It's a very severe mistake, a costly mistake. It makes us look at our own policies and procedures to make sure this never occurs again." He said, however, the two police were not at fault.
The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation is investigating. NAACP officials said they are monitoring the case. Adams was black. The two police officers are white.
15075. Greystoke - 10/8/2000 11:04:15 AM
Yes, of course, Chief Weeks. An innocent man is dead, shot in his own home. But its not anyone's fault. Its just an accident.
15076. Greystoke - 10/8/2000 6:04:56 PM
Researcher wants to infect cats, then study them.
A researcher's plan to infect 120 cats with the feline version of HIV and then inject them with methamphetamine to study the effects has outraged animal rights activists and is raising questions about the need for the federally funded study.
Ohio State University professor Michael Podell received a $355,000 grant from the National Institute on Drug Abuse, part of the National Institutes of Health, for the first year of what he expects to be a five-year study costing $1.68 million.
``We want to understand more about HIV and drug abuse in people,'' said Podell, associate professor of veterinary clinical sciences. ``One of the ways to do that is to develop an animal model that has similar characteristics.''
...
Feline immunodeficiency virus and human immunodeficiency virus have similar effects on the immune and neurological systems of their respective hosts, he said. Cats also respond to methamphetamine similar to the way people do. When injected, methamphetamine is a stimulant that can cause a feeling of euphoria and hyperactivity. It's also known to cause such long-term effects as paranoia, hallucinations and strokes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an outrage!
For $1.68 million Podell should be able to infect a lot more than 120 cats.
15077. Jonesatlaw - 10/8/2000 6:31:40 PM
15074 is a good example of why people who don't use drugs should be concerned about the 'drug war.' It is also something that people who plan on using guns for home defense should take a good look at as well.
15078. robertjayb - 10/8/2000 6:42:33 PM
.
Too true, Jonesatlaw. An armed citizen confronting a criminal intruder may bring about a standoff or the bad guy may flee. An armed citizen confronting a cop intruder will almost certainly be killed.
15079. dusty - 10/8/2000 6:50:47 PM
Suppose we accept, arguendo, that an armed civilian confronting an armed cop is more likely to get killed than successfully defend him or herself.
Question: should the response be to encourage citizens to disarm, or take steps to reduce the number of times that armed cops barge into the wrong house?
15080. CalGal - 10/8/2000 6:58:27 PM
I think both should be taken into consideration. An armed citizen responding to an intruder should always take into consideration the possibility that it's the cops. This means that they shouldn't necessarily come out with their guns blazing, because the cops will probably win that battle.
At the same time, the city should pay a huge tab for shooting a citizen due to their mistake--whether the citizen was armed or not being irrelevant--and that will hopefully reduce their errors.
15081. Greystoke - 10/8/2000 8:48:36 PM
Suppose that the following had occurred:
1. the cops burst into the right house
2. the drug dealer didn't realize they were cops
3. he was killed defending his home
4. the cops found a pound of marijuana in his closet
Would that be a good outcome? Should the cops go out and celebrate their victorious battle in the War on Drugs? Is the execution of a drug dealer and the destruction of his home something that law abiding citizens should give a second thought?
15082. CalGal - 10/8/2000 9:01:58 PM
Did the cops get a warrant to burst into someone's house for only a pound of marijuana? If so, then that's just how it works. I would rather they not be given a warrant to do so--in fact, I'd certainly rather they not be given a warrant to bust in at all, but that's a different issue.
If, otoh, they got the warrant based on saying there'd be a zillion pounds of coke in the house and could not reasonably prove that there had ever been such drugs in that house, then it would count the same as barging into an innocent person's house.
But I think anyone should give thought to the fact that the intruders might be cops.
15083. Al D - 10/8/2000 11:04:04 PM
The ultimate fault is the so called War on Drugs. I guess the perfect defense for the policemen would be "We were just following orders."
15084. robertjayb - 10/9/2000 12:19:38 AM
.
Here's a program about the War on Some Drugs...tomorrow night...
Frontline (9 p.m., PBS, check local times) presents "Drug Wars," Lowell Bergman's two-part report on the government's failure to stem the flow of illegal narcotics into the U.S. Concludes Tuesday.
15085. robertjayb - 10/10/2000 12:50:33 AM
.
U.S. Companies Tangled in Web of Drug Dollars...
What are we going to do?" asked Greg Passic, a former drug enforcement agent who now advises the government on the economics of the narcotics industry. "We've got the Fortune 500 involved in our drug- money laundering process."
15086. vonKreedon - 10/10/2000 1:00:20 AM
The botched drug raid is another example of why a gun in your house is most dangerous to you and your family. If there had been no sawed-off (!?!) shotgun in the house the Adams' would now be working on a lawsuit rather than a funeral AND a lawsuit.
But hey! Vote Freedom First!
15087. greystoke - 10/10/2000 7:35:54 AM
vonKreedon
Sure, the guy would probably be alive if he didn't have a shotgun. (I say probably because the cops have been known to shoot unarmed residents during drug raids.)
However, he would also be alive if the police had not broken into the wrong house. And he would be alive if there was no War on Drugs which resulted in jack booted thugs busting down doors.
The man's gun served the valid purpose of defending his home from criminals. And, of course, the gun could potentially be used to help overthrow an tyrannical govenment, as our Founding Fathers intended.
Saying that gun ownership caused his death is like saying that the concept of freedom of speech caused the deaths in Tienamin Square. Citizens should not have to give up their rights and freedoms to avoid being executed by an oppressive government.
15088. PsychProf - 10/10/2000 7:43:23 AM
Von...ya better reread your own post. Greystoke is correct IMO...your totured logic attacks the BOR headon...you and my mom...she always useta say people should just keep their mouth shut and then we'd all be OK. I'm no gun fan, but the BOR is a personal favorite.
15089. rubberducky - 10/10/2000 10:59:18 AM
Amazon Yanomami Tribe to Take on Cybersquatters
SAO PAULO (Reuters) - Davi Kopenawa Yanomami, a chief of a primitive Amazon tribe that inhabits virgin rain forest around the Brazil-Venezuela border, has been losing sleep lately.
News that a Florida woman -- lured by the prospect of a Hollywood movie on the tribe -- had nabbed the Yanomami name for the World Wide Web address http://www.yanomami.com and was auctioning it for $25,000 left Kopenawa stewing.
this "Cybersquatting" B.S. is getting more and more ridiculous.
15090. greystoke - 10/10/2000 11:45:30 AM
Spokane marching band will no longer play Custer song.
A high school marching band's rendition of "The Death of Custer" may be axed after drawing criticism from an American Indian student.
School district leaders planned to decide today whether the Lewis and Clark High School Marching Band will be allowed to perform the halftime show again.
The music for "The Death of Custer" was written in 1905 and depicts The Battle of the Little Bighorn of 1876. The band used it as a centerpiece for a halftime extravaganza that includes Custer dying of an arrow wound and American Indians performing a war dance afterward.
Vickie Countryman, director of equity for Spokane School District 81, said the district received just the one complaint, but that is enough.
...
The show's last stand may have been a band competition in Pasco last weekend, which Lewis and Clark won, band director Larry Jay said. The band hoped to perform it again at a football game on Friday and at the Pacific Northwest Marching Band Championship in Spokane next Saturday.
15091. greystoke - 10/10/2000 11:51:54 AM
Washington woman will be sentenced for plot to kill her husband.
King County prosecutors will ask that Teresa Rose, 46, be sentenced to five years in prison for murder conspiracy.
Her plea of no contest was the latest chapter -- though not the last -- in a stranger-than-fiction case that left a young woman dead and four people behind bars.
...
Police say they stumbled onto the plot earlier that month, when the body of Teresa Rose's 15-year-old daughter, Sarah Starling, was found near Kirkland.
Their investigation revealed that Starling had been helping her mother and Jason McDaniels, a young man the girl had dated, to concoct a plan to kill Starling's stepfather, according to court papers.
Rose told police her 58-year-old husband was verbally abusive to her and Starling, and Starling's friends said the pair would talk about getting rid of him and using insurance money to move back to Hawaii.
Prosecutors say Rose offered to give McDaniels $10,000, two plane tickets to Hawaii and her husband's new sport-utility vehicle to complete the job.
Jerry Rose was not hurt, despite what police say was a botched attempt to strangle him when he came home from work one night in February 1999.
But less than a month later, adding to the mystery surrounding the case, Starling's body was found in Kingsgate Park. She had been badly beaten and stabbed.
Prosecutors say she died at the hands of McDaniels, now 21, and a third friend, Thomas Mullin-Coston, now 20. Both men are in the King County Jail awaiting trial: Mullin-Coston on a first-degree murder charge; McDaniels on charges of murder and murder conspiracy.
15092. greystoke - 10/10/2000 12:01:46 PM
Colorado bar shut down for printing lewd t-shirts.
The Where It's At bar in Rangely will be shut down for five days beginning Wednesday as a penalty for printing up T-shirts that show two cartoon aliens engaged in oral sex.
The Rangely Board of Trustees, acting as the local liquor authority, last week ordered the closure because the T-shirts violate a part of the liquor code that prohibits the depiction of sex acts in materials that advertise or decorate a bar.
Where It's At owner Mark Archuleta argues that town authorities have been unfair in giving him a penalty harsher than that often meted out for serving liquor to minors. Archuleta said he believes it was because the trustees feel he embarrassed the town by depicting a female alien with a beer on her head and her face in the crotch of a male alien, along with the message: "This is really where it's at. Rangely, Co."
...
Town officials have refused to comment. Archuleta showed up at last week's hearing with a stack of T-shirts from other Colorado liquor establishments that he said "made mine look like a nursery rhyme." Most of the trustees refused to even look at the shirts, he said.
15093. JRoth - 10/10/2000 9:39:18 PM
Why should an Indian student object to the Custer piece? Didn't the Indians kick Custer's ass?
15094. Greystoke - 10/10/2000 10:00:23 PM
Sperm smuggling at PA prison.
Two former guards at a federal prison accepted thousands of dollars from inmates to smuggle contraband and sperm used to impregnate the inmates' girlfriends, prosecutors say.
...
Kemmerer, 33, allegedly accepted $5,000 on Oct. 5 from an undercover agent posing as an inmate's girlfriend. The agent asked that sperm be smuggled out of the Allenwood prison in a cryogenic sperm kit.
...
Swineford is accused of being ``very close'' to incarcerated organized crime figures at the prison in White Deer. Among the contraband he allegedly allowed in last year was a package containing a sperm kit.
Investigators said sperm-filled vials were taken from the prison and delivered ``on several occasions'' to the Park Avenue Fertility Laboratory in New York City.
The New York Post, citing anonymous law-enforcement sources, reported Sunday that as many as five New York mobsters fathered children in federal prison.
The paper reported that authorities began investigating two years ago after Kevin Granato, a convicted Colombo family hit man, was seen in the Allenwood visitation room showing off a toddler he called ``my son.'' The incident raised eyebrows because he had been in jail since 1988.
15095. Al D - 10/10/2000 10:56:04 PM
To depict the slaying of Custer with one arrow is quite an understatement. Perhaps more in keeping with todays mode, they could show one of the Indians cutting out the heart of one of the dead soldiers and eating it. Or of the Indian women disemboweling the army officeers. I would think the Native Americans would get a kick out of that.
15096. Al D - 10/10/2000 11:07:59 PM
From an arcicle by Brent Bozell
This was not the story line the national media pressed after the debate, of course. Washington Post reporter Dan Balz began his front page article on Thursday by announcing the debate was "Devoid of memorable moments or crippling mistakes..." Deep inside the paper, on page A18, was the Post's first mention of the fairy tale about James Lee Witt.
The New York Times selected A26 to bury the story. USA Today put it on A15, and implied that Republicans picking on the Witt fib was a personal attack. The furor that ultimately followed does not prove that the media love to pick on Al Gore, as hardcore Gore partisans in
the press like Time's Margaret Carlson suggest. It proved something quite different - that liberal media spin does not always win the day, especially when millions of Americans have seen the politician's spiel for themselves. Instead, the furor and sudden plunge in Gore's polls proved that alternative media outlets, from talk radio to the Internet to newspaper columnists to Republican researchers, have a power all their own to overcome the spin the liberal media prefer.
The important point here is how little control the major media has over information, not always the case in the past.
15097. greystoke - 10/11/2000 11:47:08 AM
Elderly couple chooses death over a nursing home.
Just the possibility of being placed in a nursing home may have been enough to trigger the murder-suicide of an elderly couple who shared a love affair of more than 50 years.
Facing the slow, painful loss of their independence apparently distressed John Unwin Sr. and his wife, Jean, both 78, who died gruesomely last week while alone at their son's house in a quiet section of rural Douglas County.
...
The two bled to death Oct. 4 after Unwin struck his wife with a hatchet, then stabbed himself with a knife, according to the Douglas County coroner.
...
For more than 35 years, the Unwins shared a large, old home in Pittsfield. Their relationship began when they were kids and she threw a snowball at him, Brady said. They married in 1946.
Unwin Sr. served in the Army Air Corps during World War II and owned a land surveying company. Jean Unwin worked in the cafeteria at the local Sacred Heart Catholic School.
The couple's health began deteriorating more than a decade ago, their son said. Both suffered strokes, had difficulty walking, and Unwin Sr. had the front of his left thigh removed because of cancer, he said.
...
The senior Unwin was crazy about his wife and "tended to her wonderfully," Brady said. "She would call him "Dad' and he called her "Mom.' " For the past four or five years in their home, they slept on the first floor because it was too difficult to go upstairs, Brady said.
"He'd make their lunch and they'd sit and play cards together," she said. "He had her in the living room and he had his chair and they watched John Wayne movies."
But in 1998, John Unwin Sr. was injured in a fall and never fully recovered.
15098. greystoke - 10/11/2000 12:00:02 PM
Missouri fourth graders are strip searched.
It started as grade-school show-and-tell.
It ended in a civil rights violation, alleges the American Civil Liberties Union and some parents in Adrian, Mo.
The allegation stems from the temporary loss Oct. 3 of a World War II medal that a fourth-grader had taken to class at Adrian Elementary School.
...
Principal Wallace Henrickson had the boys in the class file into a rest room one at a time, where the pupils stripped to their underwear in front of Henrickson and a male school coach, the parents told the ACLU.
The girls in the class were patted down by a female teacher, said Dick Kurtenbach, executive director of the ACLU of Kansas and Western Missouri.
After all that, the medal was found lying on the classroom floor under a desk.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Principal Hendrickson should be fired.
He didn't even check their body cavities.
15099. JJBiener - 10/11/2000 12:06:19 PM
greystoke - I think Principal Hendrickson should be strip searched to find out where he misplaced his brain. I have a suggestion on which body cavity to search in order to find it.
15100. robertjayb - 10/11/2000 3:00:33 PM
DALLAS (AP) - A Republican candidate for county constable is accused of campaigning under a false name to woo Hispanic voters.
After years of trying to get elected as Thomas Wesson, the Dallas man now is campaigning as Tomas Eduardo Wesson.
In January, Wesson filed his candidacy papers for Dallas County constable in Precinct 6 using the traditionally Hispanic names.
Dallas County officials say Wesson has not legally changed his name.
Wesson confirmed recently that he is not of Hispanic heritage.
15101. janjon - 10/11/2000 3:46:49 PM
robt. A slightly longer version of that story was in today's Times.
Weston is quoted as being just very surprised why anyone would question this, because "Tomas Eduardo" is his name.
Well, at least he is alive, which is more than some winning candidates are.
15102. robertjayb - 10/11/2000 6:24:12 PM
.
Fast Eddie Wins One...
BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) -- Former Gov. Edwin Edwards was found innocent Wednesday on corruption charges stemming from the liquidation of a failed insurance company. Louisiana Insurance Commissioner Jim Brown was found guilty of lying to investigators.
It was Edwards' second trial this year. He was convicted in May on charges of taking payoffs in return for riverboat casino licenses and could go prison. He is awaiting sentencing.
Shreveport lawyer Ronald Weems, the third defendant in the insurance-liquidation case, was found innocent on all charges.
Brown was acquitted on most charges but convicted on seven counts of making false statements to an FBI agent.
Edwards, 73, Brown, 60, and Weems, 54, were accused of creating a sweetheart settlement in 1996 for the owner of a failed insurance company.
15103. Dusty - 10/12/2000 10:32:05 AM
Explosive-Laden Raft Rams U.S. Ship in Yemen
An explosives-laden rubber raft rammed a U.S. guided missile destroyer and exploded in the Yemeni port of Aden on Thursday, killing four U.S. sailors and injuring 31, five seriously, U.S. Navy officials said.
15104. Indiana Jones - 10/12/2000 11:14:56 AM
Wow...CNN is apparently reporting that it may not have been an attack at all.
15105. Dusty - 10/12/2000 1:45:25 PM
Initial accounts suggested the likelihood that the incident was a terrorist attack, but Pentagon and Navy sources said it might have been an accident that occurred as the ship was stopped for refueling.
15106. theDiva - 10/12/2000 3:23:03 PM
15107. theDiva - 10/12/2000 3:23:24 PM
oops, didn't see those.
15108. Indiana Jones - 10/12/2000 3:33:17 PM
War in the Middle East.
Sabotage against American ships.
Dow down 300 points.
And Jack Vincennes called away for a time.
It makes you wonder.
15109. Raskolnikov - 10/12/2000 3:39:33 PM
I think the:
1)Bush is perceived as winning the debate
2)Dow drops 300 points...
connection is worth pondering some more.
15110. PelleNilsson - 10/12/2000 3:42:49 PM
Yes. But JRoth was around earlier today so it's maybe not classified as a major crisis. Yet.
15111. labwabbit - 10/13/2000 12:44:31 PM
Big ol' hole in the USS Cole. How will the US react?
...time to take out another tent in Libya? Wipe out another pharmacy?
15112. LohrM - 10/13/2000 4:18:18 PM
The bombing of Libya put Qaddafi back in his hole for years. If we can find anyone connected to the bombing in a fixed location, send in the B-2s.
15113. ecclesiastes - 10/13/2000 9:41:42 PM
JJBiener and Raskolnikov,
I have heard of Modern Orthodox. There was an essay in the New York Times magazine (or something, the New York something) a few weeks ago that mentioned it in connection with Lieberman.
On the subject of female rabbis: both Reconstructionist and Humanistic Judaism allow them, as well as gay rabbis. Both welcome intermarried couples and their children. Humanistic, an agnostic/atheist branch of Judaism, is a minor movement, but Reconstructionism (which allows explicitly for non-theistic personal interpretations of "God") is much bigger. If one counts Orthodoxy as a single movement, then I think Reconstructionist is probably the fourth largest in America. The other two large ones, already mentioned here, are of course Reform and Conservative.
JJBiener is right that one's level of observance determines what flavor of Jew one is. But there are more than a few flavors. Given the politics of the moment, I, too, wish I knew a bit more about Modern Orthodoxy.
15114. Greystoke - 10/14/2000 10:43:58 AM
Paramedics leave dead body in driveway.
On Oct. 2, Bardsley and his 73-year-old wife, Eileen, were home alone when Bardsley began having chest pains. Shortly before midnight, the family called the local volunteer fire station.
Responding firefighters were joined at the Bardsley home by paramedics from Parkland, just south of Tacoma. They began transporting Bardsley to a hospital in Puyallup, about 50 miles away.
A few minutes into the trip, Bardsley died, and the paramedics decided to return his body to his house until it could be removed by a driver from a funeral home in Chehalis in Lewis County.
They said they didn't want to take Bardsley's body inside because his widow suffers from Alzheimer's disease and appeared confused.
15115. Greystoke - 10/14/2000 10:59:21 AM
70 year old Arkansas woman arrested for building code violations.
Her crime? She had refused to remove burglar bars from her 1870s house, in violation of an ordinance governing the historic district where she lives.
Her arrest has sparked criticism of the city for its handling of the matter and put a spotlight on the historic commission and its policies, which some think are too strict.
...
In addition to the bars, the warrant cites Mrs. Deislinger for installing two vinyl windows, instead of wooden ones, and having a heating and air-conditioning unit visible from the street. The ordinance concentrates only on exterior changes.
She has been ordered to appear in Pulaski County Municipal Court on Wednesday afternoon. If the judge rules against her, Mrs. Deislinger could be fined anywhere from $10 to $500 a day until she makes the changes.
...
The MacArthur Historic District isn't crime free. Two teens robbed a liquor store a block from Mrs. Deislinger's house a few years ago. They were shot by the store owner, and one died on a nearby porch.
Mrs. Deislinger said she has seen unsavory characters wandering through the district, which hugs Interstate 30. She said prostitutes had used the abandoned house for a place to sleep before she bought it.
"I filled up two 28-foot Dumpsters with stuff I got out of that house," Mrs. Deislinger said.
Mrs. Deislinger said the commission should be happy that she improved the house.
"Are they glad I upgraded the property?" she said. "They should be. I'd rather have a house with bars on the window next to me than a bunch of prostitutes living there."
15116. Cellar Door - 10/14/2000 11:01:41 AM
"And Jack Vincennes called away for a time."
Where's Jack?
15117. Greystoke - 10/14/2000 11:05:10 AM
Louisiana school is raffling off a shotgun.
Parents in the combined elementary and middle school's PTO group signed up for the raffle at the same time they approved other school fund-raisers to sell cola and candles.
They figured the raffle for the Remington 870 shotgun would draw plenty of interest from the local male population, as it did last year when a gun was raffled to help pay bills for a Beekman pupil's mother who had cancer.
...
Jaquie Algee, southeast regional director for the Million Mom March group against gun violence, said Beekman principal Roy McCoy told her to back off when she called.
"This is none of your business," Ms. Algee quoted Mr. McCoy as saying. "Keep your nose out of our affairs."
Mr. McCoy said he was quoted accurately
...
Opponents of the Beekman raffle fear there's too much support to stop it. The prize is to be handed out Oct. 27.
"We know we can't stop it, but we're trying to prevent this happening at any other school and from happening at Beekman again," Ms. Miguez said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Much ado about nothing.
15118. Greystoke - 10/14/2000 11:10:48 AM
US Marines arrested for smuggling illegal immigrants.
They were arrested early Thursday morning in their 1995 Ford Mustang in Tijuana's Zona Norte, a gritty neighborhood known for drugs and prostitution, by city police who checked their trunk because the Marines seemed nervous, the Mexican newspaper Frontera reported.
The man and woman found in the trunk told authorities they paid between $2,000 and $2,500 each to be smuggled from Tijuana to San Diego by the Marines, according to Frontera. The newspaper said both immigrants were from Central America.
Police turned them over to Mexican federal authorities, who have jurisdiction over allegations of immigrant smuggling.
15119. Greystoke - 10/14/2000 11:19:42 AM
Couple wants $1.5 million because they viewed nude pictures.
A couple that took film in to a national drug store chain for developing has sued the chain and a leading film processor because they got sexually explicit photos back of people they didn't know instead of pictures of their children.
Tim and Veronica Kelley, who live in eastern El Paso County, are asking Longs Drug and Fujicolor Processing Inc. to pay for an unlimited amount of therapy for their daughter, now 6, who saw the photos, and $1.5 million for emotional distress.
In addition, Kelley, who has launched a one-woman campaign against pornography and sexual exploitation, said she wants the film processing industry to develop a quality-control program that prevents such pictures from reaching other families.
An industry legal specialist said it may be the first case of such a suit based on the claim of emotional distress.
...
"The first picture was a closeup of a man's penis fully erected, and that's all that was in the picture," Veronica Kelley said. "I pulled the next one away and it was a picture of sodomy, and then I dropped them on the ground.
"They're filthy, they're absolutely filthy," Veronica Kelley said.
...
Kelley said she chose to file the lawsuit only after she received what she thought was an unsatisfactory response from Fuji. She said the company sent her a check for $12 to replace the film and offered her a free 8-by-10 enlargement and a free transfer of a photograph onto a coffee mug.
Kelley insists she hasn't filed the suit to "make a quick buck," but said it was the only way to send a "wakeup call" to the film processing industry.
15120. Greystoke - 10/14/2000 11:28:52 AM
Ohio man, declared dead 12 years ago, is shot by his ex-wife.
A man missing for 20 years and declared dead about 12 years ago resurfaced mysteriously at the home of his former wife, who shot him after he walked upstairs and lay on a bed, police said.
Ben Holmes, 48, was in serious condition at a hospital Friday night, authorities said.
...
Police believe the man went to his former wife's house after getting wind of her remarriage two weeks ago. She fired six shots, wounding him at least twice, authorities said.
In 1979, Ben Holmes' ranch-style house in Youngstown was leveled by an explosion, police said. Investigators classified the fire as arson.
The next year, Holmes failed to appear for a court hearing, and a fugitive warrant was issued.
About eight years later, Addie Holmes was involved in having him declared dead, The (Youngstown) Vindicator reported. His whereabouts the past two decades were unknown.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone heard from OhioSTOPAS lately?
15121. OhioSTOPAS - 10/14/2000 11:40:56 AM
Ha!
I've never been declared legally dead, but that's only because being boring isn't grounds for doing so.
15122. Dusty - 10/14/2000 11:51:34 AM
Well, you break the law (after all, he was declared legally dead) and you pay the price.
15123. arkymalarky - 10/14/2000 12:59:26 PM
Schools I've worked in have raffled off hunting weapons several times and no one's ever batted an eye.
And I hope that dead guy lives so we can find out the story behind that.
15124. Cellar Door - 10/14/2000 1:06:44 PM
He sounds like a Bush supporter to me.
15125. rubberducky - 10/14/2000 10:23:25 PM
"This is none of your business," Ms. Algee quoted Mr. McCoy as saying. "Keep your nose out of our affairs."
sounds right to me
15126. ranheim - 10/15/2000 9:13:44 AM
Do any of you know the reasoning behind Clinton & the federal government seizing through proclamation approximately 4 million acres of land - almost all of it west of the Mississippi - in the past 7 years? A reporter named Michelle Malkin - I had never heard of her before - wrote an editorial in the Baton Rouge Advocate Sunday morning. She claims, that with the 4 million acres Clinton has added, that the US Government now owns roughly 1/3 of the acreage of the USA.
Clinton has been, for the most part, using a 1906 statute called the Antiquities Act. This act allows the president, without the consent of Congress, to set aside acreage and buildings of historic and/or scientfic interest. Some members of the administration have been quoted as saying that they are "preventing urban sprawl" as well.
Among the properties listed by Malkin are :
1.7 million acres in Utah : The Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument.
300,000 acres in the Sequoia National Forest (wasn't that already protected?).
195,000 acres in the state of Washington : Hanford Reach National Monument.
164,000 acres in Colorado : Canyons of the Ancients National Monument.
129,000 acres in Arizona : Ironwood Forest National Monument.
52,000 acres in Oregon : Cascade-Siskiyou National Monument.
I know the names of some of these places; never been to any of them. I wouldn't characterize this as preventing urban sprawl in these locations. Do any of you live near any of these areas and can explain to me why this land has to be owned by the Government?
15127. OhioSTOPAS - 10/15/2000 10:18:00 AM
Weren't these federal-owned lands before their designation by Clinton as national monuments? I thought the significance of their designation was to remove them from the federal land otherwise available for lease to miners, loggers, etc.
15128. Greystoke - 10/15/2000 10:45:55 AM
Ohio
You are exactly right. All of these lands were already federal land, they simply have more protection from commercial exploitation when designated as National Monuments. Of course it is government bureaucrats who allow such commercial exploitation (Bureau of Land Management and US Forest Service), so basically the government is protecting the land from misuse by its own land managers.
All of these new National Monuments have scenic, recreational, and ecological significance. Its not as if the Clinton Administration has been throwing darts at a map and designating what gets stuck.
I believe that Clinton recently became the President who has designated the most National Monument acreage. But his actions are certainly not unprecedented. Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter designated many National Monuments.
ranheim
If Michelle Malkin is claiming that 4 million acres of land have been "seized" by the federal govenment under the Clinton administration, she is lying.
15129. ranheim - 10/15/2000 11:10:54 AM
Ohio & Grey
Thank you.
As one with a definite anti-government bent, I find it somewhat amusing that much of the land set aside as goverment monuments, etc. is in the western 1/2 of the USA.
It is almost as if the powers-that-be said "We have fully developed almost all the land east of the Mississippi PRIVATELY. In order for us and our children to experience nature, we will set this land aside and not permit it to be developed. We will do this under the guise of protecting nature and our 'heritage'."
I would not be surprised if people living in the west had a different interpretation of this approach. How much resistance has there been to these actions that have made this land "untouchable"?
15130. Greystoke - 10/15/2000 11:36:15 AM
ranheim
The reason that the monuments are in the West is because that's where the most federal land is located. The vast majority of federal land in the West has been owned by the government since the Louisiana Purchase, Mexican Cession, Gadsden Purchase, etc. Its not as if the land (for the most part) has been acquired from private owners. (This is in contrast to National Parks and Forests in the East, which were mostly acquired from private owners or at tax sales.)
I don't see where protecting nature and our heritage is a "guise" for anything sinister. Rather, I see it as a valid reason to prevent commercial exploitation. Also, these National Monuments are not "untouchable". Some activities that are harmful to the environment are prohibited, but most recreation is encouraged.
Yes, many in the West are opposed to special designations such as National Monuments. The "Wise Use" movement consists of organizations with this point of view. Most of the groups are funded by commercial interests, with members consisting of ranchers, snowmobilers, ATV riders, loggers, miners, and some hunters.
15131. Greystoke - 10/15/2000 11:53:08 AM
Police seize peyote from Utah church again.
The leader of a self-described American Indian church in Spanish Fork said his church and home were raided last Wednesday by police wielding a search warrant, marking the second time in three months that police in Utah have seized peyote buttons from a high-ranking member of the church.
As many as 15 Utah County sheriff's deputies were part of the afternoon search at the 6-acre Benjamin complex, which is home to the Oklevueha Earth Walks chapter of the Native American Church, according to James "Flaming Eagle" Mooney, the church's leader. Mooney was not arrested, he said.
Mooney said police confiscated a computer and about 12,000 buttons of peyote from a metal vault. That translates into about 33 pounds of peyote, a hallucinogenic cactus plant that is only grown in the United States in Texas and is regarded as sacred by American Indians who use the buttons during their prayer rituals.
[continued]
15132. Greystoke - 10/15/2000 11:57:24 AM
In August, police in Weber County raided the Ogden home of Nick Stark and confiscated $10,000 in cash and 3,500 buttons of peyote. Stark is a self-described medicine man who runs the Ogden chapter of the Oklevueha Church, and says Mooney empowered him to conduct the peyote ceremonies, claiming that Mooney has the authority to do so because he is on the legal peyote purchasing registry in Texas. Stark was charged with possessing peyote with the intent to distribute it, a second-degree felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. He is awaiting trial.
Mooney claims Oklevueha has thousands of members, the vast majority of whom are whites with no American Indian ancestry. That has aroused the suspicions of police and prosecutors. Federal Drug Enforcement Administration regulations state that peyote use is legal only in "bona fide" American Indian church ceremonies.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahhhhhhh. So, in this case, someone's ability to practice his religion is based on his racial ancestry. Interesting.
15133. ranheim - 10/15/2000 12:08:11 PM
#15130 Grey
You make it sound very reasonable.
However, I dimly remember reading of Teddie Roosevelt and his man, Gifford Pinchot, in the very last hours of a session of the legislature, pushing through a very large addition to the nation's stock of land. Seems to me that there was a huge outcry then - almost 100 years ago.
Neither Roosevelt nor Clinton felt that they could convince Congress to go along with them. You may not like the word : chicanery; but, both presidents were guilty of devious conduct in the dead of night to get around the wishes of Congress.
My recollection of the TR/Pinchot incident is hazy. But, I recall that their actions were very controversial. Most of what Clinton does is done by lies and deceit.
15134. Greystoke - 10/15/2000 12:12:51 PM
ranheim
Here is an article about Canyons of the Ancients National Monument in Colorado.
For Tozer and others, the 164,000-acre monument west of Cortez has become the latest symbol of increasingly stringent federal land-management policies set over the past eight years - an issue on the minds of many Westerners as they prepare to pick a new president next month.
Canyons of the Ancients is rich in ancient puebloan Indian artifacts, relics Tozer calls "just a pile of old rocks" being protected at the expense of his community's rural culture.
...
Tozer's views may be more fervent than most, but they generally are shared by many rural voters bristling over the federal government's management of more than 24 million acres of federal land in Colorado, totaling 37 percent of the state. In addition to monument designations, they're also worried about the future of federal grazing rights, commercial and recreational access to public lands and federal protections of animals, particularly the Canada lynx, the cutthroat trout and the wolverine.
15135. JudithAtHome - 10/15/2000 12:27:25 PM
ranheim:
Your first post on the "seized land" admitted you knew nothing about the subject because you were asking for information on it; now, in 3 posts or less, you have decided Bill Clinton and TR are guilty of lies, deceit, chicanery and trickster behavior in the dead of night...aren't you getting a tad carried away?
15136. Greystoke - 10/15/2000 12:28:30 PM
Man buys his wife a Hyundai Excel as part of his plot to kill her.
The Watkins man sentenced this month to 12 years for soliciting a hit man to kill his wife started planning the act as much as six months earlier by buying her a silver Hyundai Excel, newly released transcripts show.
Real estate agent Tom Mason saw the car as the vehicle for her death, prosecutors said, as tapes of his talks with the "hit man" - really an undercover officer - indicate.
...
The transcripts of conversations in March 1998 show that Tom Mason suggested a wreck staged with a truck loaded with heavy equipment in the industrial stretches of Brighton Boulevard.
"That would be ideal for a truck, in those areas," Mason told Gassman. "And then leave some empty beer cans in it or something."
"Make sure it looks like an accident." Again focused on the tiny car, Mason told the detective he wouldn't be harmed by hitting it with a truck.
"If this thing was ever in a wreck," he said of the sedan, "you ain't gonna feel it, and nobody will survive."
...
The couple divorced shortly after Mason was arrested in March 1998. They reconciled in August 1999 and remarried in April.
Stephanie Mason pleaded with the judge to go easy on her husband, saying he was the sole financial support for the family, including their 12-year-old son, who has Down syndrome.
Prosecutor Diane Balkin told Meyer that Mason wanted his wife, now 43, dead because he was having an affair with another woman and because he needed money.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The two have "reconciled and remarried"? Amazing. I wonder if she is still driving the car. It probably has sentimental value for her.
15137. JudithAtHome - 10/15/2000 12:31:59 PM
I can't believe 2 women would be stupid enough to fall for this bozo.
15138. ranheim - 10/15/2000 12:33:07 PM
#15134 Grey
That was a good article!
It is like every city that has a college or university. There is a "town faction" and a "gown faction".
Voting for Harry Browne may be taking the course in between these factions.
15139. JudithAtHome - 10/15/2000 12:36:05 PM
Over in International, they are betting on a war in the Middle East with Saddam involved....can you rest easy knowing GW Bush may be heading up our country at that time? Hope he brings along his Cliffs Notes to Geographical locations...
15140. Wombat - 10/16/2000 10:48:17 AM
What the ranchers, wood cutters, and miners out West don't complain about are the 19th century rates they get to pay for using Federal land.
15141. Electric Slide - 10/16/2000 10:56:51 AM
...to that old dog, JuDY: Saddam would be foolish to get into another pissing match with America's "Othello," Colin Powell, and chief DOD-winning administrator Dick Chaney.
VOTE BUSH, while you still can.
15142. bubbaette - 10/16/2000 11:00:52 AM
I'm guessin that Rosie got a brand new name.
15143. JudithAtHome - 10/16/2000 11:12:12 AM
New name but same old Rosie.....
Slide:
I think Saddam might have the measure of your man. After all, he was up against Powell before and Saddam is still around....
15144. OhioSTOPAS - 10/16/2000 11:15:58 AM
(Message # 15141): Colin Powell strangled his wife, and I missed it?
15145. bubbaette - 10/16/2000 11:17:40 AM
The bitch was cramping his style.
15146. JudithAtHome - 10/16/2000 11:38:27 AM
Ohio:
Methinks Slidely misplaced his Cliffs Notes.....
15147. Jonesatlaw - 10/16/2000 12:11:16 PM
Land issues in the west are not for tenderfeet from the east. They are extremely complex, but everyone has their simplistic solutions. Large parts of the West have never left federal hands. Most federal lands are under the Bureau of Land Management, or the Forrestry service. Each has a cozy relationship with folks who use federal land for their own profit, ranchers, loggers and miners. The rates they pay for land use come nowhere close to free market value.
The users would defend current policy by pointing out that beef, coal and timber are cheaper for American consumers than they would be without subsidies. Also, through long practice their industries are dependent on these indirect subsidies, and rapid changes would put them at a competative disadvantage. Finally, they argue that they have been good stewards of the land, especially the timber and ranch industry, as they have leases for lengths of time that make it in their best interests to look out for Uncle Sam as they look out for themselves.
The only thing more convoluted and complex is water rights in the west.
15148. Ronski - 10/16/2000 12:22:51 PM
jones,
If interested in the ski industry's take on a land use issue, see post # 45527 in Politics Today.
15149. Electric Slide - 10/16/2000 1:48:21 PM
Advice from a parent of a student at the school
In Boston, a Supreme Court judge ruled that schools do not have the right to expel cross-dressing students. The judge ruled that a school district in the city cannot prevent a 15-year-old male---"who is biologically male but identifies himself as female," in the words of the Boston Globe---from attending school in dresses, wigs and padded bras. To prevent him from doing so violates the 8th grader's right to free eexpression and constituted sex discrimination, according to the judge. One mother of a 14-year-old gave her son permission to beat up the student if he touched him.
15150. glendajean - 10/16/2000 4:46:02 PM
DC residents still have no representation in Congess.
15151. JJBiener - 10/16/2000 5:00:19 PM
Glendajean - Neither do most of the rest of us.
15152. Jonesatlaw - 10/16/2000 5:05:02 PM
Slide- I believe the kid is diagnosed with gender dysphoria. It's a psychological condition that can be viewed as a handicap. But hey, the mom in question probably would tell her kid to beat up other handicapped kids too.
15153. glendajean - 10/16/2000 5:07:38 PM
JJ -- When I moved to DC, I didn't think it would matter that I no longer had a congressman or senator. It does matter alot. When the District was created, they didn't think about what would happen to the citizens that live there, and postphoned making any decisions.
It's a long time oversight. In truth, they should re-draw the District of Columbia to include the Mall, the Capitol, and the White House, and give the rest of the city back to Maryland.
Or at least give citizens of the District a voting representative in the Congress.
15154. Jonesatlaw - 10/16/2000 5:11:17 PM
DC won't get the vote as long as it remains "Dark Country" as Richard Pryor approvingly put it. It's seen as a guaranteed democratic block of three electoral votes as well as an increase in demos for the Congress.
15155. glendajean - 10/16/2000 5:38:22 PM
Jones -- DC's white population has increased over the last few years. A good percentage of the black middle class have moved to the suburbs.
It's a beautiful city and people not worried about the schools like the idea of not spending hours out of the day commuting. And the current Mayor is an improvement over Berry. The federal government has kicked in dollars along with pressure on cleaning up the local government's act.
Frankly, it won't work as a state because it has literally few if any resources outside of its main industry, government. Congress prohibits income taxation by the District government on commuters. We're not set up to fund/run/and provide voting rights to a District.
15156. ranheim - 10/16/2000 6:17:53 PM
Glenda
Are you a federal employee?
There 1 year+ that I was stationed in DC (supposedly to learn Russian), I kept my "home" as Minnesota (It was MN the entire 9 years that I was in the USAF).
MN never once said anything about me voting absentee in their elections. (My parents lived in MN). My wife maintained Louisiana as her "home" druing those same 9 years. LA did not question her right to vote absentee in LA. (Her parents lived in LA).
If you are a non-military federal employee living in the District, could you use another address as your "home"? e.g. your parents? Another relative?
15157. RosettaStone - 10/16/2000 6:20:15 PM
Give DC back to Maryland and add another congressman from the state. Tax wise it would be a drain for the state but that's okay, who pays taxes anymore?
As my old man said when he left me hundreds of acres of mountainside land in South Egremont, Mass., and told me not to sell. Real estate is something they're not making anymore of.
15158. glendajean - 10/16/2000 6:24:16 PM
Ranheim -- I wasn't a government employee during the years I lived in the District.
Rosetta -- Electric Slide, we hardly knew ye
15159. RosettaStone - 10/16/2000 6:38:34 PM
I can't get my laptop to change monikers.
When I get home to home computers I will try to do it again.
Call me Electric.
15160. bubbaette - 10/16/2000 10:04:43 PM
DC won't get the vote as long as it remains "Dark Country" as Richard Pryor approvingly put it. It's seen as a guaranteed democratic block of three electoral votes as well as an increase in demos for the Congress.
Jones at Law
Bingo. The issue that frequently comes up when the issue of DC statehood comes up is why should the residents of DC be given a vote when they'd elect Democrats. Another undercurrent is that the Democrat elected would likely be black. Stan Parris, a former VA congressman who ran for Gov a while back cemented this point in my mind when he ran anti-D.C. ads reasoning that having him as Gov. would halt the army of blacks itching to cross the 14th street bridge and invade the Commonwealth.
Which also confirms another impression that I have of Republicans in general -- they're just fine with denying the franchise to those who don't vote "right" or are of the "wrong" color.
15161. Greystoke - 10/17/2000 11:28:32 PM
Routine strip searches ruled unConstitutional.
A Pomona Police Department policy mandating strip-searches of all felony suspects is unconstitutional, a federal judge declared in a tentative ruling Monday.
U.S. District Judge Dean D. Pregerson made his remarks in connection with a lawsuit by a 48-year-old woman who was strip-searched after being arrested on suspicion of passing a counterfeit $20 bill.
The $20 bill was later found to be legitimate, but in the meanntime, Eugenia Cazares was taken to the Pomona police jail, where she was forced to remove all of her clothing and submit to a strip-search by a female guard. The search included a visual examination of her buttocks, breasts and genital area.
Cazares' lawyer, Stephen Yagman, said his client was humiliated and traumatized by the experience. He sued, charging that the police violated her constitutional right to be free from unreasonable search.
15162. greystoke - 10/18/2000 11:43:20 AM
At least 8% of all reported rapes are fabricated.
Last year, FBI data showed that 8 percent of all rapes reported to police in the United States were unfounded. The numbers could be even higher because some U.S. police departments -- including a handful in Utah -- forward to the FBI only those rape reports considered legitimate, officials say.
Experts say people who make such unfounded allegations usually are afraid of something, seeking revenge, covering up a sexual indiscretion or simply trying to get attention. And children who make such claims rarely are capable of considering the consequences, said Karen Platis, a licensed clinical social worker at Valley Mental Health.
...
Kevin Gully, a psychologist at Primary Children's Medical Center, agreed that some people -- particularly children -- embellish stories to get attention or sympathy. Some stories have elements of truth, however, and some children retract stories even if they are true, he said.
"Children sometimes have been sexually assaulted, and they recant because they have been threatened, they are scared or embarrassed," Gully said. "There are a lot of factors that will cause a child to recant."
Nor is there only one reason children make up stories, he said. "The bottom line is there is no common denominator, no profile, the cases are so unique. You can think of a thousand reasons why they would lie."
15163. greystoke - 10/18/2000 11:48:57 AM
Seattle's Duke of Detox is dead.
For 30 years, Dutch Shisler embraced a population reviled by others -- down-and-out alcoholics who live and drink on the streets. With his boundless compassion and encouragement, he helped thousands pull their lives together.
Mr. Shisler, who founded and staffed King County's first detoxification van, died Monday from liver failure. He was 69.
Friends yesterday recalled Mr. Shisler in reverential tones. They said he would light up a room and was a source of inspiration.
"The message of Dutch was, you never give up," friend and civic leader Kenny Alhadeff said.
Mr. Shisler would help an alcoholic 10 times, Alhadeff said, and if someone got drunk again, "he'd go back the 11th time. If they got sick on him, he'd wipe himself off and get him again on the 12th time."
...
The youngest of three children, Mr. Shisler was raised in California by his widowed mother, who worked as a taxi driver and waitress during the Depression. He began drinking at age 8 and ran away to the Army at 13, serving 88 days before his mother retrieved him. He served in the Marines from around age 15 to 18.
...
Mr. Shisler had gone through a dozen recovery programs before Alcoholics Anonymous finally brought sobriety, his wife said. Having received guidance and support from recovering alcoholics, Mr. Shisler was compelled to do the same for others.
15164. greystoke - 10/18/2000 12:01:07 PM
Colorado boy skewered by fence post; lives to tell about it.
Doctors and family called it a miracle Tuesday that 17-year-old Ryan Lane survived being impaled through his abdomen by a 6-foot fence post in a car wreck in Highlands Ranch.
...
The post pierced Lane's back and abdomen after a car driven by his friend spun out of control while going 100 mph on Wildcat Reserve Parkway late Thursday night. The car crashed through a fence and into a backyard of a home in the 4200 block of Brookwood Place.
The section of wood entered through the right rear wheel well, went through the passenger's seat and through Lane's abdomen, and came to rest on the dashboard.
The driver, a 17-year-old Highlands Ranch boy, was not seriously injured. No charges have been filed against him, said Douglas County sheriff's spokesman Attila Denes, and his name was not released.
The wood was removed from Lane's abdomen during two hours of surgery Friday at Swedish Medical Center. He was in good condition Tuesday evening.
...
The emergency room staff expected Lane but were not prepared when he arrived with the wood protruding from his back and stomach, Mallory said. He was "pale as a ghost," and in excruciating pain, but conscious.
Then they contacted Littleton Fire Department to return with an electric saw to cut off the wood protruding from his back, allowing Lane to lie on his back for the two hour surgery.
Doctors made a midline incision to open Lane's body to make sure his organs were visible when they attempted to remove the wood.
There was bone and spinal damage, but none to his major organs.
In 45 minutes, they removed the piece of wood. During the surgery, Lane was given nine pints of blood.
15165. joezan - 10/19/2000 9:53:46 AM
Please excuse this intrusion of provincial news, but I am just amazed that of a total of 575 National Merit Scholarship semi-finalists nationwide, 5 are from two local high schools - one of which is in our very small district and the other in the slightly larger district next door. This is from a total of fewer than 3,000 students, around 700 of whom, as juniors, took the PSAT on which scholarship eligibility is based.
What are the odds? I mean, we're talking about a little less than 1% of the total number of qualifying students from two districts which, combined, represent probably less than 1/10,000th of those eligible.
15166. Dusty - 10/19/2000 10:06:03 AM
joezan
The odds are higher than you think, but this is a subject for the slow thread.
15167. OhioSTOPAS - 10/19/2000 10:46:08 AM
Joezan: Certainly an excellent achievement for a small student body (particularly one that no doubt contains many University of Michigan fans). However, I think there are more than 10,000 semi-finalists nationwide (not just 575).
My kid's high school, with a senior class of about 400, had five or six NMS semifinalists.
Alas, not including my kid.
(Genetics claims another victim.)
15168. greystoke - 10/19/2000 11:43:44 AM
I was the only National Merit Scholar in my class of 42 (that's 42 students, not the class of 1942, you smartasses). I don't recall getting any cash or prizes for it. Just a cardboard certificate and my picture in the paper.
15169. Raskolnikov - 10/19/2000 11:47:33 AM
You can get NM scholarships from hundreds of different sources. some colleges directly offer them (it is the only reason I went to the University of Minnesota), and many businesses offer them to eligible children of employees. But it isn't an automatic scholarship. You either have to choose a school which offers one, or be lucky enough to find a private sector sponsor.
15170. Raskolnikov - 10/19/2000 11:49:23 AM
There have to be more than 500 nationwide. There were around 100 from Minnesota alone.
15171. CalGal - 10/19/2000 11:54:34 AM
Semi-finalists? My lord, there were 5 in my school.
15172. greystoke - 10/19/2000 11:59:09 AM
FBI informant defrauds 700 investors.
An Orange County executive at the heart of a massive investment fraud case was once an FBI informant in investigations of organized crime in Southern California, according to federal authorities and others closely involved in the case.
The disclosure comes as the FBI and other authorities are investigating the late Luigi DiFonzo and several associates in the DFJ Italia investment firm on suspicion of running a $44.5-million Ponzi scheme.
When the Irvine firm closed its doors in March, it left about 700 investors with losses in the tens of millions of dollars. The timing and nature of DiFonzo's relationship with the FBI are important because they raise questions about whether federal authorities should have known about the alleged illegalities at DFJ Italia.
DiFonzo, 53, died of a prescription drug overdose Aug. 14, just as authorities were moving to seize his $4-million Laguna Niguel house.
...
The FBI confirmed Wednesday that its agents worked with DiFonzo but say that relationship lasted only three months in mid-1996 before the bureau abruptly ended the arrangement.
"For a limited time period, DiFonzo cooperated with us regarding a separate investigation," said FBI Special Agent Matthew McLaughlin, a bureau spokesman. "At the end of that time frame we terminated any cooperation with him."
...
DiFonzo's widow, however, maintains that her husband's relationship with the FBI was more far-ranging.
"They are so full of it," said Brenda DiFonzo. "I know he had multiple conversations with them after that. I know that he kept [two FBI agents'] business cards in his pocket until the day he died and that he spoke to an agent in New York regularly."
15173. ranheim - 10/19/2000 4:07:29 PM
Are you one of those who thought that the "surplus" was going to "pay down our National Debt". Foget it!
One of LA's representatives received a copy of the Transportation Bill that has yet to be passed. Hundreds of billions of dollars are going to be authorized. Yet our congressman had but two (2) pieces of paper. He called the office of the Secretary of the Dept. An underling there assurred him that the "details were going to be worked out to the satisfaction of all". Needless to say, our man in Washington was not pleased. While not saying that he was going to vote no on the package, he noted "For all I know, the roads in Arkansas are going to be covered in silver plate!"
And this is a Congress that wants to get home to see about their own campaigns! I don't know who is most at fault. As a youngster, the House passed legislation which was then sent to the Senate. The differences in their bills were handled in a Conferance Committee. The bill was then sent to the president for his signature or veto. That does not seem to be the way it works any more. Legislation seems to see light of day first in the Executive Branch. Which is backwards from the way the Constitution is written I believe.
Knowing how the Clinton Spin Machine works, if our congressman sees to it that the Transportation Bill is not acted upon (because he has no knowlege of the details), the Clinton/Gore team will be screaming from the rootops : DO NOTHING CONGRESS!
15174. Raskolnikov - 10/19/2000 4:19:53 PM
ranheim:
1) The President submits the budget, which Congress then tinkers with and votes on. This is how it has been done since time immemorial. Nothing new.
2) You think the President is the one increasing transportation spending? I haven't glanced at the bill but I very much doubt it. The Transportation budget is the heart of Congressional pork barrel spending (Defense spending is the soul). Presidents rarely give a damn about what roads get built where, but for members of Congress it can make the difference between re-election and writing your memoirs.
15175. ranheim - 10/19/2000 4:29:46 PM
Another piece of proposed legislation is a change in the war retirees from the military are to be treated.
I got out of the USAF in 1970. At that time, the serviceman could retire nearly anywhere in the USA and be near a military facility or a VA Hospital. Not so anymore. Remember all the base closures a few years back? Plus funding for the VA Hospitals has been cut. In the past several years I have been seeing increasing numbers of veterans who formerly went to England Air Force Base (now closed down) or the local VA. The common thread in the reason that they are coming to me is "I want to go to a doctor who I can understand."
One of the new proposals would put military retirees in their own retirement plan. The medical portion would have the retiree and his family handled in the same manner as he was while on active duty. ie free care all the way.
Sen. Bob Kerry of Nebraska, he won a Medal of Honor in Viet Nam + lost a limb, put his pencil to this proposal. He came up with $60 billion over the next 10 years. Even with his own handicaps, Kerry thought that this was a bit much!
But, with bills such as this coming out at the very last minute, I don't think you are going to see any surplus.
15176. glendajean - 10/19/2000 6:09:24 PM
I just heard from a friend that Steve Case and his wife (AOL Time Warner pooh bah) have given $8 million to Rev. James Kennedy's Coral Ridge ministries in Florida. Kennedy's evangelistic ministry is one of the more vocally hateful anti-gay organizations. They distributed the so-called "Gay Agenda" video and was a main force behind the "we can cure you" newspaper ads that ran a couple of years ago.
15177. glendajean - 10/19/2000 6:19:50 PM
Here's a story on the Case gift.
They gave the money to the school Kennedy runs that is adjacent to his church. Case's wife attended the school in the 70s.
15178. Greystoke - 10/19/2000 6:46:19 PM
My Dad gives money to those moronic TV preachers -- Kennedy and Robert Shuler. They are nothing more than beggars in fancy suits.
15179. bubbaette - 10/19/2000 6:49:17 PM
Another of the many many reasons not to use AOL.
15180. joezan - 10/19/2000 8:22:16 PM
Dusty, Ohio, Rask, Cal:
Forty thousand high school juniors took the PSAT last fall to qualify as National Merit Scholarship semi-finalists. Only 575 students nationwide achieved that honor. Among them are five seniors from two local high schools.
I should have read this first paragraph more closely. Not quite the achievement I'd thought, but still impressive.
If, as Rask stated, there are many different ways of getting the NMS, then it appears that what the article is saying is that of the 40,000 HS juniors who took the PSAT, only 575 nationwide achieved the honor based on their performance on the test - five of those being from these two local schools.
Grand Haven HS, btw, is the school which has placed in the top 10 of the National Science Olympiad every year for the past decade, winning first place 3 times.
15181. dusty - 10/19/2000 8:36:20 PM
From a semi-random site:
"Out of 1.3-million students tested nationwide and 16,000 semi-finalists, 7,600 students in the United States are now finalists and are eligible to receive a scholarship from the National Merit Scholarship Program."
I wonder is they meant 575 statewide?
I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishment; like greystoke I was a NM finalist (it helpd fund my college tuition) and proud of it.
15182. joezan - 10/19/2000 8:57:04 PM
Dusty:
That must be it.
15183. Angel-Five - 10/19/2000 9:32:08 PM
If you're a NM finalist then you have to demonstrate our secret handshake.
15184. Angel-Five - 10/19/2000 9:32:11 PM
If you're a NM finalist then you have to demonstrate our secret handshake.
15185. AytchMan - 10/19/2000 11:07:07 PM
Trendspotting--
Just getting under way: lopsided reverse splits by dot.coms to move their stock price above the $1 minimum listing requirement on NASDAQ. First off: PlanetRX. Bon voyage.
You heard it here first.
15186. CalGal - 10/19/2000 11:28:12 PM
Well, actually, I read it on the Motley Fool first. You're late--where've you been? (g)
Bizarre that they think it would work. Spooky to think that it might.
15187. Greystoke - 10/20/2000 12:48:43 PM
Mother of the Year.
A new secretary at one of the state's most respected high schools stands accused of hosting her 16-year-old daughter's friends as they used beer bongs, smoked dope and had sex throughout her house this summer.
She referred to the kids as "family," and, according to a 13-page arrest affidavit, weekly family gatherings have included illegalities ranging from a marijuana cake she baked to the cable-TV pornography she allowed them to order and watch.
Judy Mandle, 51, was charged in criminal court Thursday with contributing to the delinquency of a minor - a felony - as well as harboring a minor and supplying alcohol to juveniles. Pending an investigation, Mandle is on paid leave from her job as a Cherry Creek High School secretary. She is scheduled to appear in court again Nov. 15, at which time her arraignment will be set.
...
One girl recounted Mandle's supplying plastic sandwich bags of marijuana, keeping cartons of cigarettes in her basement freezer for the students and allowing party participants to drive away from her home intoxicated, according to the warrant. On occasion, Mandle would follow them home in her own car, the teen said.
One party, the girl recalled, was in part a going-away for a teen whose parents were sending him to boot camp. "Mandle told everyone that she had cooked a marijuana cake for the occasion," the affidavit reads, summarizing the girl's account. "Mandle then sat with them in the living room and smoked marijuana as it was passed around."
Photographs of the parties, including the marijuana cake and several pictures of juveniles with alcohol, were passed on to investigators.
15188. Greystoke - 10/20/2000 12:58:07 PM
Ex-cop indicted for stealing $4.8 million worth of jewels.
A sophisticated nationwide jewelry theft ring headed by a former high-ranking Chicago police official carefully picked its targets, studied the traveling salesmen's routines and then struck with precision—nabbing millions of dollars in jewels, sometimes using keymaking equipment to slip into jewelers' locked cars unnoticed, federal authorities charged Thursday.
...
Hanhardt, 71, of Deerfield, used Chicago police officers to run license-plate checks and gather other information about potential victims using confidential law enforcement computers and had a private investigator search out credit reports of targets, according to the charges.
...
In his long police career, Hanhardt had risen to deputy superintendent and had once been chief of detectives, a post in which he was sure to investigate jewelry robberies, Lassar said. The first two heists occurred while Hanhardt was still on the force, authorities said.
...
John Kennedy, president of the Jewelers' Security Alliance, a nonprofit jewelry industry trade group that assisted in the investigation, said this was the first jewelry theft ring case in the country he has heard of that involved police.
"We're always telling our members to go to police, that they're our friends," Kennedy said.
15189. Al D - 10/21/2000 4:03:23 PM
A 29 year old man in Hawaii was sentenced to one year in jail for fathering a child with a 12 year old girl, with whom he has been having sex for some time. Why didn't this fool wait two years, for at the age of 14 he would have been legal.
15190. Cellar Door - 10/21/2000 4:52:46 PM
He was horny, Al.
15191. dusty - 10/21/2000 4:59:30 PM
Al D
29-year-olds willing to have sex with 12-year-olds aren't exactly renown for their decision making prowess.
15192. Al D - 10/21/2000 8:18:30 PM
Cellar/Dusty
I think you both missed the point.
15193. dusty - 10/21/2000 8:30:53 PM
I don't think so.
You wanted to make the point that the age of consent is the tender age of 14.
15194. Al D - 10/21/2000 10:30:57 PM
I should have known better than to say you mised the point.
15195. ranheim - 10/21/2000 11:02:53 PM
I see 'girls' in my office every day that are 14 going on 40.
In several recent local cases, it has been obvious to everyone, even the dense local police, that the girls have been the aggressor. No decision as to how to procede has been made.
In case you are wondering why, each girl has been sexually involved on more than one occasion in the past. There is a question of money changing hands in one case.
15196. Greystoke - 10/22/2000 10:48:38 AM
From The Salt Lake Tribune:
EUGENE, Ore. -- A retired FBI agent who lives in Salt Lake City pleaded guilty to wire fraud in U.S. District Court after admitting he scammed investors out of $2.7 million in an investment scheme.
John Kammerman used his former FBI credentials to gain the trust of those who took part in the scheme, said Kristine Olson, U.S. attorney for the District of Oregon.
Kammerman was with the FBI for 23 years before retiring in 1990. He then began teaching at Salt Lake Community College and started a business that purported to investigate the soundness of investment opportunities. He persuaded clients to send money to a company, but that money was never invested or returned.
Kammerman faces up to 5 years in jail and a $250,000 fine.
15197. Greystoke - 10/22/2000 10:52:58 AM
Teacher's aide arrested for having sex with her 16 year old student.
Karen E. Draper was charged Friday with 10 counts of second-degree-felony forcible sexual abuse and two counts of third-degree-felony unlawful sexual contact with a 16-year-old. If convicted, Draper could spend up to 30 years in prison. Draper remained in the Utah County Jail on Friday in lieu of $5,000 cash-only bail. She is scheduled to appear in 4th District Court on Tuesday.
The alleged relationship between Draper and the 16-year-old boy began two years ago when the pair worked together in a drama production. The relationship progressed as the woman continued coaching the boy in drama and they worked together in church functions.
Family members discovered e-mails allegedly sent between the two on a computer and turned them over to a religious leader who notified police. Investigators then interviewed the woman and the boy and gathered a stack of incriminating e-mail messages.
15198. Greystoke - 10/22/2000 11:18:21 AM
80 year old bank robber sentenced.
Forest ``Woody'' Tucker, whose criminal career dates back to the 1930s and includes an escape from San Quentin, pleaded guilty in May to one count of bank robbery for a holdup at a Jupiter bank that netted $5,600.
...
Tucker has a reputation for prison breaks and boasts he has busted out 18 times. The most publicized escape was in 1979, when Tucker and two other inmates paddled away from San Quentin in a kayak built out of plastic sheeting, Formica, wood and duct tape.
Tucker and an old prison buddy were captured in 1983, and he didn't get out of prison for another 10 years.
15199. greystoke - 10/23/2000 11:43:43 AM
LAPD uses rubber bullets to break up protest against police brutality.
In a scene reminiscent of clashes during the Democratic National Convention in August, police in riot gear fired the nonlethal bullets after protesters began setting fires and throwing objects at officers who were trying to stop the demonstration from encircling the Los Angeles Police Department's Parker Center.
Until then, the march by about 1,000 people had been mostly peaceful. No serious injuries were reported, although two demonstrators were bleeding from minor injuries and eight others displayed welts and bruises.
...
After the rally, protesters retreated to Olympic and Broadway, and along the way a handful turned over trash cans and vandalized newspaper boxes.
When two protesters yelled "Uncle Tom" and "Oreo" at two Latino bicycle officers, one, who identified himself only as Officer Garcia, broke formation and rammed his bicycle into a group of protesters. "Go back to your country if you don't like it," the officer yelled.
Protesters scattered once they reached Olympic. About half a dozen Lawyers Guild observers stayed on the sidewalk, and they were confronted by motorcycle officers. Two of the officers rammed their motorcycles into two of the observers:, former Santa Monica City Atty. Bob Myers, 49, and Starbucks counterman John Martin West, 25. When Myers tried to make a citizen's arrest of the officers, he was shoved.
"I was standing on a public sidewalk," said Myers, noting that the police had not declared an unlawful assembly. "He pushed me and would not allow me to talk to a supervisor. The police broke the law."
15200. greystoke - 10/23/2000 11:48:13 AM
From the Denver Post
BOULDER - A man who police say slashed a friend's car tires with an 8-foot African spear now faces felony menacing and criminal mischief charges.
A Boulder County SWAT team used a hostage negotiator to persuade 37-year-old Eric Paul Arnold to give himself up after the spearing incident early Saturday, according to sheriff's deputies.
It took the negotiator about an hour to talk Arnold out of his Boulder Heights subdivision home, said Boulder County Sheriff George Epp.
Arnold earlier asked two friends to come to his home because he felt despondent and suicidal. Arnold told them he had a "premonition" that their plane was going to crash that day, or something bad was going to happen to them on their way to a vacation in Mexico, according to deputies.
When they refused to change their plans, Arnold allegedly thrust the spear into one of the rear tires of their car. He also pushed the spear through one of the front tires, deputies said.
The two friends fled and called the sheriff's office.
15201. greystoke - 10/23/2000 12:01:16 PM
Clinton signs bill to make the states impose .08 BAC limit for drunken driving.
The new law requires states to implement a 0.08 percent blood alcohol content standard as the legal level for drunken driving by 2004. States that fail to impose that standard would begin losing millions of dollars a year in federal highway funds.
...
A 170-pound man could consume approximately four drinks in an hour on an empty stomach before reaching 0.08 limit, according to National Highway Traffic Safety Administration statistics cited by Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
...
Opponents of the 0.08 standard, including the restaurant and alcohol industries, say the measure would penalize social drinkers while ignoring the bigger problem of repeat offenders who drink heavily.
Nineteen states and the District of Columbia already have 0.08 laws, and in Massachusetts a level of 0.08 is considered evidence but not proof of impairment. Thirty-one states define drunken driving as 0.10 percent blood alcohol content.
...
The transportation bill's overwhelming passage was fueled by its scores of road, mass transit and aviation projects worth hundreds of millions of dollars for districts from coast to coast.
To accommodate that, the measure was $7.3 billion higher than last year's level, $3.3 billion more than Clinton requested and nearly $3 billion larger than earlier versions passed by the House and Senate.
...
There were also separate $100 million projects for West Virginia, Alabama and Mississippi -- home states, respectively, of Sen. Robert Byrd, top Democrat on the Senate Appropriations Committee; GOP Sen. Richard Shelby, chairman of the Appropriations transportation subcommittee; and Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott.
15202. ranheim - 10/23/2000 1:32:46 PM
#15201
Ain't democracy grand?!
15203. Al D - 10/23/2000 2:19:27 PM
Once again we have the Federal Government sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. Let's face it, their attitude is "If we have the power to do it, we have the right." This is where Liberalism has taken us, 180 degrees from Liberalism of 18th and 19th century.
15204. Wombat - 10/23/2000 2:27:37 PM
Al D.:
What's wrong with having a national standard for blood alcohol content?
15205. JudithAtHome - 10/23/2000 2:31:37 PM
(Al...the manapua was great, and we had malasadas, too!)
15206. AytchMan - 10/23/2000 2:37:17 PM
Wombat--
I guess it goes to one's view of local vs. federal control. Otherwise, what's wrong with a national standard for everything?
15207. PelleNilsson - 10/23/2000 2:50:59 PM
Is there, for example, a national standard for electric plugs and sockets? If so, is it considered a useful thing or another example of the Federal Government "sticking their nose in"?
15208. AytchMan - 10/23/2000 3:06:32 PM
Clearly, there are areas in which national standards are useful. But blood alcohol? Where is there a compelling advantage over letting local communities decide?
15209. rubberducky - 10/23/2000 3:10:25 PM
Pelle - Wombat
i can't speak for anyone else, but the issue for me is that the federal government is essentially blackmailing the states to meet its bullshit "standards" with money that is otherwise ear-marked for the necessary building of infrastructure.
i think it's best to let the people in the state deem how they want to govern themselves in this instance. what's the harm? you ask why not and i ask why?
15210. Indiana Jones - 10/23/2000 3:15:20 PM
Wombat: I see no compelling interest for the federal government to decide blood-alcohol content. At any given time, a drunk is within only one state's jurisdiction. I think it's reasonable to expect that states can make a decision like this themselves without any direction from the central authority.
I suppose the federal government could pass a special law covering someone who drives drunk across a state line, but why bother?
Pelle: I'm shooting off my mouth here without checking, but I think standards like that are often set by the manufacturers for compatability purposes. Building codes (I think) are usually local.
I've never understood why hot dog makers and hot dog bun makers can't agree on 10 or 12 as a standard count per package.
15211. mgleason - 10/23/2000 3:18:49 PM
There is, of course, the esoteric use of seven by Hebrew National, makers of my hot dog of choice.
15212. AytchMan - 10/23/2000 3:18:55 PM
Indy--
Clearly, you're an agitator of the worst sort. The hotdog/bun controversy is between 6 and 8, not 10 and 12.
15213. PelleNilsson - 10/23/2000 4:07:16 PM
I brought up the plug in socket issue in jest. Here in Europe we have at least four standards, so if you travel you have to have a set of adaptors. Or you can employ Pelle's universal adaptor:
Cut away the plug. Strip bare 1/2" of each conductor. Insert in socket and secure with matches. In the UK you need a screw driver or similar to unlock the socket.
15214. Greystoke - 10/23/2000 11:35:37 PM
This article suggests that heavy drinkers are responsible for most drunk driving accidents -- drivers with a BAC over .15. No-one has figured out an effective way to keep these drivers off the road, so the bluenosed do-gooders want to go after an easier target --those between .08 and .10.
Now we can arrest and suspend the licenses of thousands more casual drinkers who would have arrived home safely if they hadn't encountered a roadblock run by MADD's stormtroopers.
15215. greystoke - 10/24/2000 11:44:44 AM
From the Salt Lake Tribune:
A 26-year-old Salt Lake County man who caused the death of his uncle while driving drunk went to jail Monday for 45 days.
Randy John Gittins Jr. must also complete an intensive alcohol treatment program while completing 36 of months probation, ordered 3rd District Judge Ann Boyden.
On May 4, Gittins turned left in front of an oncoming vehicle at 5770 S. 300 East, Murray. Terry L. Gittins, 48, who was riding in the passenger seat of the pickup truck, was pronounced dead at the scene.
Randy Gittins -- who admitted drinking four pitchers of beer with his uncle at a tavern -- had a blood-alcohol level of 0.16, which is twice Utah's legal limit of 0.08, according to court documents.
Gittins was initially charged with second-degree felony automobile homicide, but pleaded guilty to a lesser count of class A misdemeanor attempted auto homicide.
Prosecutor Jeff Hall recommended a sentence of 90 days in jail. But Judge Boyden cut that number in half -- an acknowledgement that the defendant had grieved and suffered extensively over the death of his uncle, with whom he had been close.
At the time of the accident, Randy Gittins was on probation for a DUI violation that occurred Feb. 28 in Murray, Hall said.
15216. Dusty - 10/24/2000 11:49:40 AM
PelleNilsson
Is there, for example, a national standard for electric plugs and sockets? If so, is it considered a useful thing or another example of the Federal Government "sticking their nose in"?
In the US we have a national stanrd, but not a federal standard. As it should be.
15217. greystoke - 10/24/2000 11:52:37 AM
Drunken Mexican drivers.
When it comes to safety behind the wheel, Mexican males drink too much and know too little.
In a nutshell, those are the findings of a new study exploring the driving records and drinking habits of a group of 300 Mexican and Mexican American men in Long Beach. Half were drunk drivers interviewed before being released from jail. The other half were residents recruited from the community as a comparison group, matched by education and income.
The study found that these men had something in common, regardless of whether they had been arrested for drunk driving. As a group, they "vastly overestimated" their ability to hold their liquor.
How many drinks would it take to make you an unsafe driver? Average answer: eight to 10. How many before you're plastered? A dozen drinks in less than four hours.
Perhaps it's the machismo talking. Whatever the reason, those numbers from the Mexicans surveyed were double those reported by non-Latino white men.
...
Research shows that Mexicans and Mexican Americans have higher arrest rates for drunk driving. So they are also more likely to die in car crashes caused by alcohol. One study last year found that among Mexican Americans, 65% of all highway deaths were alcohol-related, compared with 46% among whites.
And the problem is getting worse for people of Mexican heritage while other groups are improving. In national roadside surveys, the percentage of Latinos found to be legally drunk at the wheel doubled between 1973 and 1996. At the same time, rates declined for white and black drivers.
15218. greystoke - 10/24/2000 11:59:29 AM
Researchers find Sasquatch body print.
Researchers in the Pacific Northwest believe they've obtained the first clear body imprint of a sasquatch, evidence they hope will spur serious research on the ape of legend.
The imprint was found by a team of researchers in a mud wallow near Mount Adams in southern Washington on Sept. 22, according to an announcement Monday from Idaho State University.
...
But impressions of what appeared to be a large hairy forearm, buttock, thigh and heel recorded in the mud were all roughly 50 percent bigger than a 6-foot tall man, said Jeffrey Meldrum, a physical anthropologist at Idaho State University who's one of the few active academic bigfoot researchers.
Meldrum said the sasquatch appeared to be lying on its side as it reached into the center of the wallow for apples and nectarines the team used as bait.
While it's not definitive proof of bigfoot, the cast constitutes "significant and compelling new evidence" that Meldrum hopes will stimulate further research into the possible presence of these primates in the mountains of the Northwest and elsewhere.
...
The investigative team used a thermal imager loaned by a television production crew to track the animal and found its footprints, according to expedition leader Matthew Moneymaker, an attorney who heads the Bigfoot Field Researcher's Organization.
The team also broadcast tape-recorded calls of a sasquatch into the night - and received replies, said Moneymaker.
One reply was uncomfortably nearby. "The guys closest to it were petrified," he said.
"I'm 100 percent confident of that," he said. "It was clearly a hominid-shaped thing, except that it was 40 to 50 percent larger than a human, and it was covered by hair."
15219. greystoke - 10/24/2000 12:06:36 PM
Colorado and the new federal drunk driving law.
Colorado could lose almost $50 million in highway construction money over four years unless lawmakers lower the state's drunken driving limit to match the new federal standard.
But neither Gov. Bill Owens nor acting House Speaker Doug Dean, R-Colorado Springs, would say Monday that he is confident that legislators will quickly drop the state's drunken-driving limit to a 0.08 percent blood-alcohol content.
Colorado's standard now is 0.10 percent blood alcohol. Thirty other states have levels higher than 0.08 percent.
Owens has supported the 0.08 percent standard, but he "also believes it should be a state-by-state decision without the specter of losing federal highway funds," spokesman Dan Hopkins said.
"We don't know if anyone will be inclined to sponsor a .08 bill" or what interest there will be among legislators in supporting it, but Owens will continue to support a legislative effort to lower the level to 0.08 percent for driving under the influence, Hopkins said.
Dean said the change "presents quite a dilemma for Colorado." "In the past we've tended to tell the federal government where to go" with mandates containing punitive provisions, he said.
Colorado's standard does a good job of catching problem drinkers and lowering it to 0.08 percent may only nab "good people" engaged in social drinking, he said.
If Colorado legislators ignore the new mandate, it won't be the first time they have rejected federal pressure.
Last session's failure to ban open alcohol beverage containers in vehicles means that 1.5 percent of this budget year's federal highway construction funds must be diverted to highway safety programs. Next year, the forced shift rises to 3 percent.
15220. ranheim - 10/24/2000 12:52:42 PM
This is one of the reasons that you have always heard me say that I am for the old Republic.
I think democracy is a pile of crap!
15221. PelleNilsson - 10/24/2000 1:57:23 PM
You prefer a "strongman" do you, Ranheim? One who makes the trains run on time?
15222. Wombat - 10/24/2000 2:08:58 PM
No, he prefers a confederacy called the Disunited States, as we had after the Revolution, and before it became so unworkable that a constitutional convention was called, which gave what we have now.
15223. greystoke - 10/24/2000 2:14:56 PM
Pelle,
You seem interested in the job.
I think the US could benefit from having a dour, yet benevolent dictator.
15224. bubbaette - 10/24/2000 2:25:52 PM
I question the utility in a new more stringent BAC when, as Greystoke noted above, the problem drivers have BAC's much higher than .08.
To me this is just another example of legislators pandering to an interest group who has outlived it's usefulness. When MADD was first established, there was a legitimate concern about drunk drivers. Maybe the previous blood alcohol restrictions WERE too lax. But there is a law of deminishing returns. Why settle for .08? Why not go for a level of .00 so that anyone using listerine before driving can be cited?
MADD would be much better off if they concentrated on strictly enforcing the laws that exist.
15225. Wombat - 10/24/2000 2:27:06 PM
Hmm. I have heard that argument before...in another context.
15226. bubbaette - 10/24/2000 2:31:10 PM
Wombat
If the concern is for impaired drivers, then why not go for other types of behavior that make drivers at least as impaired as a .08 BAC? The reaction times of many elderly drivers