Notices and Queries

Ask a question. Who knows, someone may answer.

Welcome to Notices and Queries. The purpose of this thread is to establish a space in which questions and information recommendations may be posted, either to specific forum participants or to the forum in general.

Please consider this thread a kind of collective post office box or bulletin board. Check in periodically to see if anyone has left a message for you. Use N&Q to mention information you'd like to pass on to one or more people without disrupting the flow of conversation in another thread. Use it, too, if you need to request a forum participant to email you, or to look out for email you have sent.

Discussions arising from information posted here are permitted and encouraged. However, exchanges that develop in N&Q and seem like they could contribute to discussion elsewhere may be moved. If a post or exchange is moved, a message will be posted here indicating the thread it went to. Participants are encouraged also to take initiative and copy interesting posts from this into other threads, as they deem appropriate.

Chat is strongly discouraged in N&Q. Idle exchanges will be moved to the Cafe. Commercial solicitations will be deleted per the RoE. Excessively hostile exchanges will be moved to the Inferno, unless they seem to pertain substantially to the subject of a different thread, in which case that's where they'll probably wind up.

Have fun, folks!

2. cazart - 2/28/2000 1:00:19 PM

Another thread doomed to the doldrums. For Christ's sake, what's next? A Fine Print on Cereal Box Conteststhread?

A TT thread is needed. Now. Urgently.

3. PsychProf - 2/28/2000 1:13:19 PM

Good thread Seguine.

4. Seguine - 2/28/2000 2:06:57 PM

For CANDIDE:

I mentioned it already in Suggestions when proposing this thread, but in case you missed it: there's a new or relatively new CD out called "John Dowland: In Darkness Let Me Dwell". The composer is apparently not well known--or used to be, then wasn't, now is. Anyway, "in Darkness..." is a collection of his songs performed by one John Potter (tenor), with accompaniment on lute, soprano sax, bass clarinet, baroque violin, and double-bass. It's incredibly lovely--not an exercise in original instruments fetishism--and this must owe something to the performers' intent to "engage" with the work, which is about 400 years old:

"The seeds of a new and largely improvised music which were sown in Dowland's own day came fully into flower a generation or so after his death. Musicians took his scores, stripped them to their essentials and re-negotiated the music with the long-deads composer. That's what we do here." (John Potter, from the liner notes.)

One caveat. The poetry is almost laughably melancholy--all of it--& includes such bathos as this last stanza from "Flow My Tears":

Hark you shadows that in darkness dwell,
Learn to contemn light.
Happy, happy they that in hell
Feel not the world's despite.

Naturally, one listens for the melody that somehow lends credence to all this gloom.

5. JJBiener - 2/28/2000 2:14:35 PM

To cazart

Why are you even here?

6. Dantheman - 2/28/2000 2:17:25 PM

JJBiener,
Caz-art thinks that disrupting the Mote is the highest accomplishment any mortal can aspire to. All of his posts serve that purpose.

7. Seguine - 2/28/2000 2:17:49 PM

ANYONE:

Hilarious book review in the NY Observer.

Once you're in, click on the Financial Observer link and see:

"Off to Work We Go—and Go—Never Sure Why We Bother", by James Buchan, on The Working Life: The Promise and Betrayal of Modern Work, by Joanne B. Ciulla.

8. Seguine - 2/28/2000 2:26:53 PM

MARJORIBANKS, PINCHER, ET AL.:

If you haven't seen it already, a book entitled India's Nuclear Bomb: The Impact on Global Proliferation is out. Author is George Perkovich, U of C Press. It's reviewed in the 17 Feb. issue of Nature I happen to have in front of me.

9. CalGal - 2/28/2000 2:28:14 PM

Seguine,

Recommendation--add target="new" to your links. This will open a new window. If you need more help, check out the HTML Hints page.

10. PincherMartin - 2/28/2000 2:34:16 PM

Seguine --

No I haven't seen it, but I will check it out.

11. PelleNilsson - 2/28/2000 2:55:40 PM

cmboyce

Your interest in the curious and the arcane is well known so perhaps you already have Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase & Fable. A newspaper here called it "invaluable".

12. PelleNilsson - 2/28/2000 2:57:25 PM

cm

First edition 1870 and still in print.

13. Candide - 2/28/2000 3:24:44 PM

Seguine

I performed "Flow my Tears" in my first solo recital. Do you know I particularly liked the part that you found a touch bathetic. It invited the singer to alter the tone and introduce a touch of baleful menace and defiance.

Reading my first program it is a hoot. The history of Western music would have been a good title. The program included Schoenberg's "Hanging Garden" cycle. I had a terrific pianist who made the most of it. My father whose taste in music was closer to country and western said "They were awful making you sing that ghastly music." I didn't dare tell him that I had chosen it.

Oh yes, there were some of Canteloube's songs from Auvergne, "Come Scoglio" from Mozart's "Cosi fan tutte" and a bracket of Charles Ives.

Well it was an OPPORTUNITY!

Thanks for info about the proliferation book.

14. Dusty - 2/28/2000 4:04:08 PM

Seguine

Interesting idea. I'm sure some people will want to read every post, others will just look for their name. Perhaps you could suggest a standard protocol for identifying the targets.

So far, most people are identifying the person in the first line, but I wonder if something more obvious, such as larger font, in green, makes sense.

Or it is distracting?

15. CalGal - 2/28/2000 4:05:52 PM

Seguine,

You can create links on the butterscotch bar. Given that some people might not come back for weeks, you may want to give them a bookmark of sorts--create a link to take people back to a given week.

16. PelleNilsson - 2/28/2000 4:27:27 PM

When we discussed this thread we agreed that it would not become a chat thread. and that it should be vigorously hosted.

Post #2, 5, 6, and 13 should be deleted asap (IMHO).

17. janjon - 2/28/2000 4:44:29 PM

Pelle. If you take out the occasional follow-on post that embellishes or relates to a prior one, you will quickly end up with an unduly sterile thread. The types of exchanges that could develop here probably will be quite brief and civil. All to the good of the forum, imho.

Vigor, yes. But not excessive pruning, please.

18. Seguine - 2/28/2000 5:04:46 PM

Dusty, I considered suggesting a standard protocol, but then it occurred to me that people might wish to establish their own. E.g., for new queries and notices I am (at the moment) using caps for the names of my posts' intended recipients. However, I thought about using a color font and certainly don't find yours distracting.

Use what suits you. If I see so much 42-point brown that it impedes reading, I'll make some rule about it, but at this point I'd rather just wait and see how people decide they want to use the thread.

19. Candide - 2/28/2000 5:12:15 PM

Pelle #16

If a response is called for,as in Seguine's message to me and my reply, should we give notice that we've moved to the cafe?

20. Candide - 2/28/2000 5:17:37 PM

I should add that I hadn't read the discussion preparatory to the establishing of this thread and just replied spontaneously. What are rules concerning a reply?

21. Seguine - 2/28/2000 5:21:38 PM

Pelle,

"When we discussed this thread we agreed that it would not become a chat thread. and that it should be vigorously hosted."

Your host is vigorous.

"Post #2, 5, 6, and 13 should be deleted asap (IMHO)."

Posts 2, 5, 6, and 16 will be deleted if and when I decide to delete them; 2, 5, and 6 may even be allowed to stand in perpetuity, as hoary examples of the kinds of messages that will not be tolerated in future.

Post 13 is perfectly acceptable. (See 1st sentence, 3rd paragraph, Message # 1.) Should a discussion emerge around Candide's early vocal performances, I'll move the relevant posts to Arts and Music. (Or, if you think that thread would benefit, you may copy them to it yourself.) If not, her remarks will not have disturbed the very important Van Halen discussion presently underway.

22. Candide - 2/28/2000 5:24:40 PM

Seguine

Thanks. Don't worry. I'm not offended.

23. Seguine - 2/28/2000 5:27:17 PM

CalGal,

Thank you, I'll revisit your suggestion (in Message # 15) after some time has elapsed. It may be that the thread moves slowly enough that a temporal link is unnecessary. However, if enough people were to request such a feature, I'd certainly consider it seriously.

24. Seguine - 2/28/2000 5:28:22 PM

Candide, see Message # 1.

25. Candide - 2/28/2000 5:41:25 PM

Seguine

I don't know whether it's still in print but this is the book that contains the Dowland song and many others.
An Elizabethan Song Book Lute songs, madrigals and rounds
edited by W.H.Auden, C.Kallman & N. Greenberg.
Faber and Faber Ltd.
24 Russell Square London
(you work out the date)
mcmlvii

27. Candide - 2/28/2000 6:34:53 PM

ILYA VINARSKY

See poetry 1374

29. Seguine - 2/28/2000 7:18:39 PM

Posts 26 and 28 have been moved to the Cafe.

30. Seguine - 2/28/2000 7:28:55 PM

ALL:

I'm not sure all browsers support this option (older Netscape for Mac did not), but recent IE allows one to search via the "Find in Top Window" function located under "Edit" in the menu bar. Anyone interested in locating messages by name might want to try that feature.

31. ScottLoar - 2/28/2000 7:45:30 PM

I've just tried it. It is as magic.

32. DanDillon - 2/28/2000 9:58:01 PM

I am to be married to my beloved Anne on Saturday, 25 March 2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Parkville, Missouri. We have bought a plot of land and are building our home in Overland Park, Kansas. I will continue to teach, and Anne will pursue her career in investments. Our honeymoon, delayed until the summer of 2001, will take us to France and Italy for three weeks. In a few years we hope to start our family.

33. joezan - 2/28/2000 11:01:11 PM

Seg:

Works great in Netscape 4.7, too.

34. joezan - 2/28/2000 11:05:30 PM

BTW...

CONGRATS to DanD.




(I pray, for her sake, that your betrothed is a good speller (-;)

35. Candide - 2/29/2000 2:19:43 AM

Just giving notice that after my death-defying posts on International I'll hide under a bushel for a couple of days. I may or may not agree with everything I have said until now.

36. Angel-Five - 2/29/2000 3:21:33 AM

Collective post office box?
Can we put up Missing posters here for Godlessclif?

37. PelleNilsson - 2/29/2000 3:25:55 AM

Angel

About those missing stories. Any idea where to find them?

38. Angel-Five - 2/29/2000 3:35:55 AM

Well, they were old Fray.

The basketball stories which predated the ones you have were both very short. One was an allegedly autobiographical story about Marj playing basketball in Trinidad in his sandals and tight clothing and winning over the skeptical crowd a la Sly Stallone in Rocky IV. My response was a short piece explaining what had really happened. They were some time before the foco desnudo stories, but not all that long.

39. IrvingSnodgrass - 2/29/2000 3:53:07 AM

Candide:
No need to hide under a bushel. A vigorous discussion is what this place is all about. And today's debate in Int'l was quite civil, if emotionally charged. Come on out and play.

40. Angel-Five - 2/29/2000 4:02:35 AM

Yeah, Candide, (hefting a driving iron) come out. (taking an experimental swing) No need to hide. (grabbing a two-iron) You can splain about Kissinger some more.

41. Angel-Five - 2/29/2000 4:08:44 AM

Don't glare at me like that, Irv. Golf is a peaceful pastime.

42. Dusty - 2/29/2000 8:44:39 AM

Candide

As Gwendolen remarks in "The Importance of Being Ernest" "It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely separated."

Interesting timing. I was listening to the play this morning. I haven't heard that line yet.

43. cazart - 2/29/2000 9:59:54 AM

Gene Lyons and Joe Conason will be discussing their book, Here's Where

Gee, TT has authors...we have...dusty.

44. cazart - 2/29/2000 10:01:47 AM

http://tabletalk.salon.com/webx?14@131.KYFfeWt7Rec^42@.eea7682/0

45. cazart - 2/29/2000 10:04:28 AM

The Book

46. DanDillon - 2/29/2000 10:25:28 AM

The recently deceased Education thread has been revived and repositioned in The Slow Thread. Any and all posts pertaining to education belong there.

47. Indiana Jones - 2/29/2000 10:26:43 AM

Notice of Security Hole in TableTalk:

Posting links to TableTalk from outside of TableTalk is a hazard as it allows others to log in as you, post as you, change your preferences and password, etc. Fortunately, this window of vulnerability expires after a while.

I would never take advantage of such a thing--even against someone I particularly don't like. But those who think the Mote has security problems should be aware of the risks they run.

48. DanDillon - 2/29/2000 10:28:49 AM

The recently deceased Education thread has been revived and repositioned in The Slow Thread. Any and all posts pertaining to education belong there.

51. Seguine - 2/29/2000 11:53:00 AM

Posts 49 and 50 have been deleted.

52. Seguine - 2/29/2000 11:57:07 AM

BOOKS THREAD REGULARS:

Following is an announcement I received from Blue Ear Forum yesterday. Perhaps some of what they're looking at will interest Mote regulars and can be imported into our threads for further discussion?

53. Seguine - 2/29/2000 11:59:23 AM

Zaheera Jiwaji and others discuss BOOKS ON AFRICA; Brendan Howley reviews a
novel set in THE BALKANS; Bo Melander appreciates Timothy Garton Ash's
ESSAYS ON EUROPE; Jeff Rigsby and James Hall review books of POLITICAL
THEORY by John Rawls and Richard Rorty; and Michael Betzold responds to Ian
Lind's review of THE CHAIN GANG.
*

"Hunter forces Esme to see things in a different way, and to see how she and
other members of the white community contribute to the hypocrisy of the
Hemingwayesque vision of Africa. ... The beauty of the continent is always
there, along with the shadow, always looming, of the brutality of that same
world. Rules of the Wild is an extraordinary achievement for a first novel."

ZAHEERA JIWAJI and other members of the Blue Ear Books email community
discuss books set in Africa(February 16-19, 2000)
http://www.blueear.com/books/africa.html

"I grew strangely elated by the novel's final image, that somehow human
beings can rediscover their dignity after the worst, that another's evil
cannot subdue our good. Time steals from each of us his or her life, but
time alone heals us. And which is the more severe mercy?"

BRENDAN HOWLEY reviews S.: A Novel about the Balkans by Slavenka Drakulic
(February 7, 2000)
http://www.blueear.com/books/balkans.html

"From my little island off the west coast of Sweden, I have England and
Scotland behind the horizon to the west, and Germany to the south. ... We
have a responsibility to understand what's going on and to contribute to the
discussions."

54. Seguine - 2/29/2000 11:59:43 AM

BO MELANDER reviews History of the Present by Timothy Garton Ash (January
27, 2000)
http://www.blueear.com/books/history.html

"Rorty is right when he discusses the split between academics and unions,
NGO's and other organizations working for political change. Academics
concerned about carving out their small niche in the publications that keep
them advancing on a tenure track seem divorced from the real world more than
ever."

JEFF RIGSBY reviews Achieving Our Country: Leftist Thought in
Twentieth-Century America by Richard Rorty
http://www.blueear.com/books/achieving.html

"Though Rawls' book can be difficult at times, it rewards the attentive
reader with a host of ideas and concepts that the world will have to grapple
with as the global village is put together."

JAMES HALL reviews The Law of Peoples by John Rawls; SIMON HAND and ETHAN
CASEY respond (January 27, 2000)
http://www.blueear.com/books/laws.html

"I had the pleasure to meet and talk with Richard McCord a couple years ago
when he came to Detroit. I found McCord to be a hard-headed newspaperman
with great understanding of the difficulties of fighting Gannett."

MICHAEL BETZOLD responds to Ian Lind's review of The Chain Gang: One
Newspaper versus the Gannett Empire by Richard McCord (January 11, 2000)
http://www.blueear.com/books/chainresponse.html

To read and participate in Blue Ear Books reviews and email discussions
before they are posted on the BlueEar.com website, send a blank email to
blueear-books-subscribe@egroups.com

55. cazart - 2/29/2000 12:02:16 PM

!

56. Seguine - 2/29/2000 12:12:11 PM

TRIVIA FROM MY MOTHER:

"When we were in Prague several years ago, we learned that Yo Yo Ma was often referred to as Ne Ne by the young musicians. ("yo" means yeah in Czech, and "ne" means No.)"

57. Seguine - 2/29/2000 12:14:15 PM

Msg 55 is fine, Cazart.

58. Seguine - 2/29/2000 12:23:02 PM

ALL:

In recent months I've been in touch with Blue Ear's editor, Ethan Casey. Would anyone here be interested in my inviting him to host a brief discussion on the Mote, and if so, on which topic(s)?

59. ScottLoar - 2/29/2000 12:38:03 PM

Anyone!

I most urgently need help. You know of acts where two persons play as one - the arms of the one behind become the arms of the one in front, and his hands fit into shoes so that two persons become as a dancing dwarf? Or, where one person dances with a dummy, but the legs of the dummy are in fact his own?

What is this kind of act called? What is the name of this?

60. cazart - 2/29/2000 12:45:15 PM

Scott Loar:

It used to be called the 'Ronald Reagan.'

61. JudithAtHome - 2/29/2000 1:02:15 PM

(that was funny)

63. ScottLoar - 2/29/2000 2:05:08 PM

Can anyone yet answer? Please.

64. theDiva - 2/29/2000 2:05:42 PM

Scott, maybe Riv knows. I'll e-mail him for you.

65. ScottLoar - 2/29/2000 2:06:51 PM

Thank you. I know there is a word for this but I cannot think or find it.

66. theDiva - 2/29/2000 2:08:01 PM

You're welcome. I must confess I am stumped as well.

67. ScottLoar - 2/29/2000 2:10:00 PM

I need this for a translation.

68. JudithAtHome - 2/29/2000 2:12:37 PM

Why not ask Jeeves?

69. PelleNilsson - 2/29/2000 2:16:54 PM

Seguine

You are the host and you will shape this thread as you see fit. But please explain the logic behind placing a post to BOOK THREAD REGULARS here rather than in the book thread.

70. CalGal - 2/29/2000 2:18:30 PM

Scott,

If someone can help you with the actual term, great. If you're still stumped, you might want to call a dance studio, or a costume store in the area. I'm pretty sure that if you asked for someone who knew about novelty dances, they'd either be able to help or give you more terms for a search engine.

71. ScottLoar - 2/29/2000 2:19:50 PM

I'll have to call it a novelty act, but less than I aspired.

72. Rivendell - 2/29/2000 2:46:46 PM

ScottLoar,

I don't know if this will help. I know exactly what kind of puppets you mean and am not sure if that style has ever been given one particular name.

It is an adaptation of Japanese Bunraku and it was made popular by such groups as the Bread and Puppet Circus and Mummenshantz (sp?).

Irv might know if it owes anything to shadow puppetry.

Sorry to not be more help.

73. ScottLoar - 2/29/2000 2:55:24 PM

No, this does not involve puppets. I know and understand shadow puppets, marionettes, bunraku, Punch and Judy, et.al.

The basic form is as I described: one person in front, one behind, and so behind a dressed table create a dwarf figure.

74. ScottLoar - 2/29/2000 2:56:11 PM

We've all done it as kids. It's so simple and the very word eludes me.

75. Seguine - 2/29/2000 4:06:51 PM

Pelle,

Re Message # 69:

If you require an analogy for the function for this thread that's served by the post you question, consider seed flat. Not all ideas must be sown directly into the soil in which they may ultimately take root.

An interesting side effect used to occur sometimes when CoralReef and I would send out article suggestions to the list of people from the Mote whom we'd invited to write for TSE. Folks would occasionally pick up on topics and book review suggestions, and then discuss them here instead of writing essays about them for the magazine. IOW, although they weren't always interested in writing full reviews or articles for us, they did find our proposed subject matter interesting and were interested in discussing it with others. Perhaps our suggestions simply brought to mind topics they already knew about but had forgotten they wanted to explore casually.

I personally have no desire to start a discussion on any of the book topics I re-posted here from Blue Ear Forum, nor do I wish to give the impression, by posting them in Books, that I do. However, others might find those books (or that forum) worth looking into. If they should deem one worthy of discussion, then they will start a discussion around it. In Books.

76. Seguine - 2/29/2000 4:12:44 PM

Post 62 has been deleted.

77. Seguine - 2/29/2000 4:31:35 PM

FOR ANYONE who missed Spudboy's message in Books (respond in that thread):

"Anyone interested in chewing on Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian for a bit? I just belatedly read it and am eager to exchange thoughts with anyone else who's read it."

78. Seguine - 2/29/2000 4:47:47 PM

Pelle,

Sorry, the last sentence of my 75 was unimaginative.

...then they will start a discussion around it. In Books, Politics, International, Current Events, or wherever they believe the information is best suited to flourish.

79. Angel-Five - 2/29/2000 5:34:01 PM

I like the seed flat analogy. And I like the idea of this being a thread for nonspecific queries like Loar's dance question. I think it will crosspollinate discussion pretty nicely.

80. PelleNilsson - 2/29/2000 5:49:44 PM

Does anyone have a public e-mail address for tmachine? jexster and I would like to reach her brother who has written books on the Balkans.

81. Seguine - 2/29/2000 7:09:00 PM

Pelle, his name is Misha Glenny. You may be able to reach him via the New York Review of Books; otherwise, I have a private email address for tmac and will forward a message to her if need be.

82. cmboyce - 3/1/2000 3:08:52 AM

Pelle,

I only just discovered this thread, on my way to bed, so I only just saw your Message # 11 & 12. I do indeed know Brewer's, a splendid volume. Thanks for thinking of me.

83. cmboyce - 3/1/2000 3:20:56 AM

Well, bed had to wait til I'd read it all. Nice thread, Seguine. I'll look forward to keeping up (but not staying up. 'Night!)

84. Seguine - 3/1/2000 9:04:00 AM

Boyce, A-5, PP,
thanks for your encouragement re the thread.

Loar,
I've been wracking my little brain on your account and can only come up with pantomime. I'm sure this won't do. If all else fails, perhaps you might (swallow hard and) try contacting the dreaded Pseudoerasmus for assistance.

85. ScottLoar - 3/1/2000 11:52:26 AM

I recalled and rejected pantomime within a minute of facing the question but I thank you for this suggestion, although why you think Pseudoerasmus is qualified to answer this is beyond me.

86. cazart - 3/1/2000 12:01:27 PM

Absolutely fascinating thread, Seguine. Truly thought-provoking.

87. robertjayb - 3/1/2000 12:38:20 PM

.
I'm enjoying this week's diary section in Slate. It's by an elementary school nurse in Pennsylvania and it's interesting, well-written, and funny.

88. janjon - 3/1/2000 1:28:38 PM

Let me put in my 1 cents worth, too, and say that this thread has a lot of promise. Certainly off to a very nice beginning. It promises to be serendipitous and this forum needs that.

89. PelleNilsson - 3/1/2000 4:26:53 PM

If you are interested in a philosphical discussion about the limits to science check out Language starting at #4014.

90. PelleNilsson - 3/2/2000 8:35:46 AM

Angel

I found the Tobago stories. I assume you want your part credited to your current moniker.

91. Seguine - 3/2/2000 9:01:31 AM

From Science, 25 Feb, the Random Samples column:

Math and Asociality

Intelligence theorists go round and round on the theme of whether human intelligence is basically a unitary trait or whether different types of braininess can coexist independently of one another. A recent study of threee scientists with Aspberger syndrome (AS--a mild version of autism--suggests that deficiencies in "social" intelligence have no effect on math smarts.

AS can make people socially awkward, withdrawn, and unable to sense the emotions of others. In the December 1999 issue of Neurocase, psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen and colleagues at the University of Cambridge report on a study of three men with AS: a 38 year old mathematician and two students, a physicist and a computer scientist. The mathematician, anonymous in the paper but who acknowledged his identity to Science, is Richard Borcherds, a recipient of the Fields Medal, math's equivalent of the Nobel Prize (Science, 18 August 1998, p.1265). The subjects and a control group of 14 young men with scientific backgrounds, took tests of "folk psychology"--how well they could read emotion from photographs of people's eyes--and "folk physics"--questions about how things work. The subjects did far better than the controls on the physics test, but they were far worse at reading moods.

92. Seguine - 3/2/2000 9:01:49 AM

The results "strongly suggest that social intelligence is independent of other kinds of intelligence, and may therefore have its own unique evolutionary history," the psychologists write. Other recent research has indicated that autism is more common in families of physicists, engineers, and mathematicians, and Baron-Cohen says his team is now "looking to see whether there's a tradeoff--as you get better at one you get worse at the other."

Borcherds, now at the University of California, Berkeley, is frank about his condition, although he describes himself as being "at the fuzzy borderline" of Aspberger syndrome. He's not sure the research says anything new. Mathematicians' socil ineptness has long been part of the profession's self-deprecating folklore, he observes: "I seem to have a hell of a lot of colleagues who are not too much unlike me."

93. MsIvoryTower - 3/2/2000 9:12:20 AM

Seguine

Fascinating stuff. Are there any studies that examine the line between functional AS and full blown autism?

The trade-off hypothesis is very interesting. Does this suggest that other types of intelligence is also independent? You know, Gardner's 7 intelligences?

94. MsIvoryTower - 3/2/2000 9:12:59 AM

other types are....

95. RosettaStone - 3/2/2000 9:27:41 AM

For the record: Today we make a big political/cultural decision and are disconnecting our Time/Warner AOL connection ($22 per month), and signing on to bargain-basement People PC ($10).

Our new e-mail address is cioppino@peoplepc.com.

Wish us luck!

97. cazart - 3/2/2000 10:18:51 AM

Hunting of the President

Conason and Lyons online in TT in the WH folder.

Anyway, return to your electrifying conversations, Moteheads.

99. PsychProf - 3/2/2000 10:38:26 AM

Missie...Howard Gardner's 7 forms of intelligence are linguistic, musical,logical-mathematical, spatial, bodily-kinesthetic, intrapersonal (e.g., insight, metacognition), and interpersonal (e.g., social skills). Gardner, H. (1983). Frames of mind: The theory of multiple intelligences. New York: Basic Books

100. PsychProf - 3/2/2000 10:42:57 AM

MORE ON GARDNER

101. MsIvoryTower - 3/2/2000 10:49:44 AM

PP

I knew that, just couldn't recall them off the top of my head.

What do you know wrt this issue of independence of these intelligences? What do you think about the trade-off hypothesis?

102. PsychProf - 3/2/2000 11:02:58 AM

On the one hand independence supports the notion that peculiar and unique neural structures serve as a foundation for individual intelligence traits(e.g. cerebral laterality and math competence) ...musical ability, spatial analyses etc. Social "intelligence" is not so easily related to a definable neuroanatomical area...hence the independence, at least from a brain-behavior view, is not established.

103. PsychProf - 3/2/2000 11:48:23 AM

ASPERGER

104. Seguine - 3/2/2000 11:57:40 AM

From the NYer this week (Mar. 6), in an article about a Turkish kelim dealer, Mehmet Saggun:

“One day, a man from Berlin was standing in front of my shop. He said to his wife, ‘Watch how easy it is to take one of these carpet dealers. They are ignorant.’ He spoke in German. It never occurred to him I understood every word [Mehmet was raised in Germany]. I said, in Turkish, ‘Come in.’ We spoke in Turkish, in bad English, and in a few words of German.

“He knew a lot about rugs,” Mehmet continued, “and he saw a beautiful antique. I told him it was only a thousand dollars but I had promised it to a friend who was travelling. ‘If he doesn’t want it you can have it,’ I told him. He looked at his wife and told her that I was an idiot—that the rug was worth ten thousand dollars at least. He was in my shop maybe thirty times in the next few days, always asking, ‘Did he call? Did he call? Did he call?’ Finally, about the fourth morning, he asked again. And I said, ‘My friend, today we speak in German.’ He was astonished. ‘Remember how you were going to make me small, that all dealers were fools? Well, I am a fool who speaks your language. That piece you wanted is beautiful, I congratulate you on your eyes. But there is no travelling friend. It is for sale. And for a reasonable price. Only not to you. Never to you. A piece like that deserves better than such arrogant German pricks.’ His wife couldn’t help it. She smiled.”

105. janjon - 3/2/2000 12:00:25 PM

Seguine. Rustler will love 104.

106. Seguine - 3/2/2000 12:04:10 PM

Posts 96 and 98 have been deleted.

108. Seguine - 3/2/2000 12:30:18 PM

MsIT: "The trade-off hypothesis is very interesting. Does this suggest that other types of intelligence [are] also independent?"

Don’t know, but I sort of wondered about that too. It could be that kinds of intelligence may be linked under certain circumstances and independent in others. Haven't got around to checking the links PP provided here; maybe they offer some info.

You know, it has long been said that mathematical and musical ability are linked, but I bet that this is true mainly at the margins. (My father is a pianist and has no mathematical ability whatever.) Nevertheless, I’ve long been curious as to whether anyone has ever done a correlation of something like IQ or SAT scores with particular skills/abilities. If it could be shown that there exist non-savant cohorts with, say, great musical ability and lousy verbal skills, then I guess one might proceed from there, asking similar questions of various areas of human ability, until one had a picture of linkages and disassociations of various kinds of thinking (or whatever it is).

BTW, I think it’s interesting that although universities typically contain social science and education departments, the SAT apparently does not test for an aptitude one might expect undergraduates planning to major in those fields to have: this so-called “social intelligence”.

109. Seguine - 3/2/2000 12:32:01 PM

Janjon: "Rustler will love 104."

Then direct him to this thread.

110. janjon - 3/2/2000 12:34:05 PM

Seguine. I tend not to address Rustler. Life is too short.

111. Seguine - 3/2/2000 12:37:48 PM

Dear Uzmakk of the Steppe, I thank you for your concern, but Post 107 has been moved to the Inferno.

112. Seguine - 3/2/2000 2:09:24 PM

PP: "Social "intelligence" is not so easily related to a definable neuroanatomical area...hence the independence, at least from a brain-behavior view, is not established."

Does it seem, from your perpsective, that locating "social intelligence" neuroanatomically is a likely eventuality? I mean, is anyone even attempting such a thing? Or is research looking mainly at areas of human expertise like math and verbal and spatial ability because they happen, at this point in human (western?) sociohistory, to be valued highly?

113. Seguine - 3/2/2000 2:20:14 PM

BTW, MsIT: I see on the Aspberger site PP linked that the ration of boys to girls diagnosed with Aspberger's syndrome is 4:1. If these kids grow up to be exceptional mathmeticians, engineers, etc., then here is evidence of at least one gender-linked biological superiority of males in those fields.

But I must say, I knew a girl in 5th grade who, I'm guessing in retrospect, had Aspberger's or something like it. Her family evidently hated her and she had no friends (other than me, and we weren't close). She went to college and majored in math. At the age of 16.

114. PsychProf - 3/2/2000 4:08:47 PM

Seguine...very unlikely unless we break the construct down into more measurable yet valid terms...such as emotion(temperament).

115. MsIvoryTower - 3/2/2000 4:27:51 PM

Seguine

RE: Post #96.....

I laughed.

116. cmboyce - 3/2/2000 4:31:48 PM

Neuroanatomical research on "types of intelligence" centers on discovering the locales within the brain where certain activities excite neurons, no? Pretty hard to exercise one's social intelligence while inside a CAT scanner, I'd think. Though maybe just answering questions might offer something. (Off the top of my head—or somewhere—I'd guess that surmising about maladroit relations with waiters or what have you would not employ many of the same synapses as surmising about Hilbert's space.)

117. Seguine - 3/2/2000 4:51:35 PM

Boyce, MsIT, PP et al., I'm planting a copy of the neuro exchange in the slow thread, where I'm responding to Boyce and hope the discusion will continue.

118. Seguine - 3/3/2000 8:11:35 PM

17 Feb Nature

"The South African government announced last week that it had rejected two reports commissioned from its Medicines Control Council on the safety of the antiretroviral drug AZT after public statements by political leaders on its potential hazards.

"Both reports are believed to endorse the use of AZT. But health minister Manto Tshabalala-Msimang told a press briefing held after last week's opening of parliament that the government is not curently prepared to release their contents. She also refused to reveal the findings of a third report compiled by the council, which she said she had only received on 31 January."

[...]

The reports apparently recommend AZT, esp. to minimize transmission to infants from their mothers; the government claims that benefit-risk asessment in the reports is not to its liking and wants the reports rewritten.

"..the government's efforts remain under heavy fire from AIDS activists.... "They are wilfully ignoring the best scientific advice, internationally and locally, on the safety and benefits of providing AZT through the public health sector," [says Mark Haywood, an executive of the country's largest coalition of non-governmental AIDS orgs]. "The immediate cost of this impasse is measured in thousands of unnecessary infant HIV infecions for which they now carry a very direct responsibility.""

119. profemeritus - 3/3/2000 10:44:47 PM

Irv

There's a quiz just for you on the Quiz thread.

120. CalGal - 3/4/2000 1:42:02 AM

DVD Converts (US only):

If you've quickly run through the selection at your local video store, you may want to try renting by mail.

Netflix is a great deal I thought people might want to be aware of. Their prices are about equivalent to those at Blockbuster ($3.49 for a 7 day rental), but then toss in $1 for shipping fixed and then $1 per each movie (I'm rounding up).

So two movies would be:

$ 7 (2 movie rentals)
$ 2 (shipping per movie)
$ 1 (fixed shipping fee)
$10.

That works out to a few bucks more than Blockbuster, but then you get it for two more days and you can order them online Wednesday and find them in the mail Friday--no trips to the store.

They have a number of freebie programs--for example, if you rent a DVD and decide to buy it, you can buy it from SamGoody.com and you get another free rental.

If you think you'd rent movies more than twice a month, they have the Marquee program. $20/month, unlimited rentals, unlimited time, no shipping charges, and the first month is free. The Marquee program works best if you build a long list of desired rentals--you can set and reset the order as desired. As soon as you send back a movie, they send you the next on the list.

If you have any questions, post them in the movies thread.

The selection is fantastic--if there's an available DVD title they don't have, I couldn't find it.

Thanks to Raskolnikov for selling me on Netflix; I grovel to him in gratitude.

If you haven't moved to DVD yet, then what the hell are you waiting for? The players are as cheap as VCRs, the quality is stunning, and they are here to stay. Early adopter status is well and gone; second wave is nearly over.

121. CalGal - 3/4/2000 1:43:32 AM

One other fun movie site--Reel.com. Their daily movie trivia contest gives back real money you can use to buy products on their site, and the questions are easy.

122. IrvingSnodgrass - 3/4/2000 2:33:44 AM

While we're recommending websites, I'd like to put in a word for Buy.com.

My office has bought about $10,000 worth of computer hardware over the internet over the past two years (since our trips to the USA are short, and we don't have time to do live shopping). Since we found buy.com, we're getting prices up to 40% lower than the cheapest we could find before, and quick delivery to boot. They've got all kinds of other stuff there, as well.

123. Seguine - 3/4/2000 10:41:57 AM

Fine recs, folks.

Let me add one: the Daedalus catalogue. You really need the printed version because the website is incomplete, but I think it can be ordered at www.daedalus-books.com, from which you can also place orders. I just bought a hardcover Harold Brodkey short story collection ($5.98), a cookbook (which, at $3.98, looks extremely promising, esp. the recipe for berbere sauce, which is actually why I bought it), a small and superficial anthropological survey of the Lardil people of Australia ($1), a children's story by Isaac Bashevis Singer that I had as a kid ($1.98), and an Etta James CD ($9.95--a few cuts are decent; the rest, eh). Total price, including shipping: $27.84.

Daedalus also is featuring at the moment a limited edition (1000 copies) of a reproduction of "The St. Petersburg Muraqqa', Album of Indian and Persian Miniatures from the 16th Through the 18th Century and Specimens of Persian Calligraphy," $150.

124. DanDillon - 3/4/2000 11:45:42 AM

Attn: Sharon Schroeder

Please remove my e-mail address from your group mailing list. It begins quelquechz. Thank you.

125. CalGal - 3/4/2000 5:07:18 PM

A correction on my Netflix post--the Marquee program is not completely free the first month. You pay a onetime $5 for shipping and handling.

126. Candide - 3/4/2000 6:38:18 PM

This is the URL to an international forum which may be of interest to some on the Mote.

http://www.millenniumforum.org/

127. Candide - 3/5/2000 7:17:55 AM

ON THE WHOLE, I'D RATHER BE IN PHILADELPHIA

128. joezan - 3/5/2000 11:10:22 PM

Who can tell me the exchange rate from Australian to US dollars? I've run across some videos from an Australian children's show called The Wiggles, and our 2 y.o. daughter loves them.

Their website gives a price list in Australian Dollars, and the tapes are all $35, plus handling!. If it's roughly half that, my wife and I could probably be persuaded to buy a couple. But otherwise...

129. IrvingSnodgrass - 3/5/2000 11:19:24 PM

Joe:
It's roughly two-thirds.

130. IrvingSnodgrass - 3/5/2000 11:21:53 PM

One US Dollar gets you 1.64 Australian dollars, according to this site.

131. IrvingSnodgrass - 3/5/2000 11:23:43 PM

So your videos will be US$21.16 each.

132. joezan - 3/5/2000 11:27:09 PM

Thanks, Irv. I was at another site with a similar entry scheme, but it kept bringing me back to the original entry page.

So, the way I figure, it'd cost roughly $30 US per tape, including shipping. Too much, I'm afraid.

133. IrvingSnodgrass - 3/5/2000 11:35:38 PM

Joe:
If you look around, you can probably find a US distributor for the tapes.

134. joezan - 3/5/2000 11:50:31 PM

Irv:

Yea, most likely. We asked at Blockbuster, where we rented two of them, but they couldn't help us. There's a MediaPlay in Grand Rapids that I'll check out next time in the area.

BTW, they want $13 AUD shipping per tape! If you order 3, the third one's a buck. But really!

135. IrvingSnodgrass - 3/5/2000 11:53:41 PM

Joe:
That's very cheap for international shipping. It costs me about $20-25 to send a package the size of a video tape.

There are plenty of places on the web you can look for videos.

136. Absensia - 3/5/2000 11:54:05 PM

Joezan

Amazon's got a couple of them for $11 + s/h

137. Absensia - 3/5/2000 11:54:45 PM

$11 each, I mean.

138. joezan - 3/5/2000 11:57:40 PM

WOW! Hadn't even thought of Amazon...

Thanks, Abs!

139. joezan - 3/6/2000 12:09:12 AM

We are now (well, in a couple of days) the proud and happy owners of 2 Wiggles tapes.

Thanks again, folks.

140. bloodnfire - 3/6/2000 6:30:50 AM

Great thread, Seguine! Congratulations.

141. PsychProf - 3/6/2000 11:26:43 AM

Any Investment Bankers around? Write me at ozzienelson@hotmail.com

142. marjoribanks - 3/6/2000 1:20:43 PM

You want a website plug? Here's one that is only useful for Manhattanites, but damn it's so useful. Urbanfetch.com

From my office, I can order electronics, food, drinks, DVD's CD's whatever at the click of a button (and cheap) and it will be delivered within the hour and the delivery folk don't accept tips.

Today, I ordered bagels, a razor, the Buena Vista Social Club DVD, two CD's, a bag of popcorn and a pint of chocolate milk and had all of this at my desk in half an hour.

God bless Urbanfetch.

143. hashke - 3/6/2000 3:54:36 PM

Pak marj:

That diet yr on from Urbanfetch makes me Erpanretch.

144. Seguine - 3/6/2000 4:03:07 PM

Banks, I was curious about Urbanfetch, having seen an ad for it in something... maybe the NYer. What's their markup on the goods you ordered, or do they charge a flat fee per delivery?

Not that I'm within range, sad to say. There are only a billion instances I can think of when I could have used such a service.

145. Greystoke - 3/6/2000 6:29:57 PM

I'm thinking about taking the family to Wyoming in June for a vacation. I've never been there. I would like to stay at a motel or lodge and fish, hike, sightsee, and maybe check out some fossils.

I'm leaning against going to Yellowstone in order to avoid the crush of tourists.

Can anyone give me a recommendation on an area of Wyoming that I should visit?

146. PsychProf - 3/7/2000 8:42:26 AM

Greystoke...some are partial to St. Louis.

147. Indiana Jones - 3/7/2000 9:59:08 AM

Grey: I've never been there, but several friends have praised Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

148. marjoribanks - 3/7/2000 11:39:23 AM

Good one Pak Hashke!

Seguine, believe it or not there is no mark-up on the items they deliver. In fact, astounding as it may seem, the CD's and DVD's are cheaper than at any retail outlet around here, and the food prices (I swear) are lower than the corner deli. They have to be losing money on this but dammit I'm not complaining. Check out their website - the deals are outrageous. Right now they're selling any 2 CD's for an even twenty. Delivered. In half-an-hour.

God bless Urbanfetch.

149. greystoke - 3/7/2000 11:45:52 AM

PP and Indy

Thanks for the tips.

I can't find St.Louis, Wyoming. Where abouts is it?

150. Seguine - 3/7/2000 12:04:16 PM

Banks, that's mind-blowing. Are they nuts, or is this some calculated mimicry of the drug trade?

(Never mind; I'm sure you could care less.)

151. theDiva - 3/7/2000 2:23:09 PM

Does anyone know when Pseudoerasmus plans to return to grace us with his presence? I miss the young upstart.

152. arkymalarky - 3/7/2000 7:46:43 PM

He popped in a few days ago in International and remarked how boring the topic of discussion was.

153. cmboyce - 3/7/2000 11:31:47 PM

Message # 145

Greystoke, I'll recommend a day's drive, from Sheridan, in the northeast and just at the edge of the plains, up into the Big Horns and down Shell Canyon, to Greybull. I forget the Rte numbers, but it's evident on any roadmap I think. A beautiful drive.

Another like it, to the south, runs through Ten Sleep Canyon.

As for places to stay, I don't know. I had friends in Sheridan and in Jackson, back in those days, and did the trip three times in about 7 or 8 years. In between, I car-camped. (Nice in Ten Sleep. I slept just below grade level, at a little picnic ground kind of affair, beside the stream that paralleled the highway, a torrent just 6 feet across and a foot deep, but loud, wiping out the noise of any cars that passed—if any did; this is way the hell out in nowhere. And Shell Canyon was like it. At least it was in the 70s.)

Also, almost surely still there (it was just a few years back, I know), there's an afternoon-long rafting trip down the Snake River, in front of the Grand Tetons, that begins in at the Jackson Lake Lodge in Teton National Park (below Yellowstone) and goes down to handomely named Moose, Wyo. No rapids, just very lovely landscape and wildlife. I did it on the last day of Aug. (I think, maybe 9/1) 1968, and saw a bald eagle (my first), through a flurry of snow!

[more]

154. cmboyce - 3/7/2000 11:32:09 PM

I'd skip Jackson proper, on tourism grounds. And you'll find 'em in Teton Park, too. But try to get to the river ride. It's worth tolerating some hoi polloi on the way.

Leaving Teton Park, there's another wonderful drive, back to the east and south, through Wind River Canyon. The Big Horns are sort of Alpine (I guess, though I haven't really seen much of the Alps), with evergreen forests and high meadows and big rock outcrops, where Wind River is more southwestern, lots of yellow and red rock in more chaparallish country, eventually opening up into some very striking semi-desert. One can then go on south toward Rock Springs and Utah, or east to Casper or southeast to Cheyenne and Denver.

Wow. This makes me hungry to drive around out there again. My favorite kind of travel.

155. RickNelson - 3/8/2000 7:49:19 AM

Marj,

Again congrats to you with your new family memeber.

I have been remembering something I posted last year which makes me feel amends are in order.

I recall posting a glib response to a trip to Goa. I apologize.

Even if you've forgotten, please understand I feel I slighted Goa and you deserve this apology, whether you rememeber or not.

The same apology is in order for a book you recommended to me, about Sarawak. It's not a bad book, it's just not wholely accurate. I was short about it and you were so nice about it. I'm sorry.

156. marjoribanks - 3/8/2000 9:08:41 AM

Rick,

It's very sweet of you to apologize. But it's completely unnecessary. I don't remember the first incident at all. Secondly, your comments about the 'Borneo' book were spot-on. Most important, I definitely did not take offense to either your comments and am unlikely to in the future either. After all, we're on-line friends and have been for a very long time relatively.

Have a good day, buddy.

157. PelleNilsson - 3/8/2000 9:39:16 AM

So Rick posts in International to ask marj to check out a post here. Wasn't it supposed to work the other way around? (Not directed at you, Rick.)

158. Seguine - 3/8/2000 11:47:06 AM

Message # 16, Message # 69, and Message # 157

PelleNilsson, your dissatisfaction with the existence, use, and/or administration of this thread should be taken up with Wabbit.

160. Seguine - 3/8/2000 3:40:07 PM

Pelle, I advised you not to continue. Your post 159 has been moved to the Inferno, where you will find my reply.

161. Greystoke - 3/8/2000 9:15:16 PM

cmboyce

Thank you much for the recommendations. Sounds like you're talking yourself into a road trip.

162. cmboyce - 3/8/2000 10:23:59 PM

Well, I sure would love to do it, but it's going to be a while before I get either wife or daughter to employ two weeks to drive somewhere when they can get there in a day by plane. And, too, we don't have a car. (Come to think of it.)

When I did all that driving around—crossed the country 5 times in 8 years, plus a good deal of wandering around out west: a real Wanderjahre, octupled—most of it was in a Citoen DS station wagon. And I'll never be able to approach such majesty again and had perhaps better not try.

Anyway, to stay remotely close to topic, both Wyoming and Colorado (and no less the former than the latter, imo) are well worth spending some time tooling around in. Try Sheriden-Moose-Black Canyon of the Gunnison (sw Colo)-Denver. I imagine you can fly to Sheriden from Minneapolis, Denver or Salt Lake; home to anywhere from Denver.

163. cmboyce - 3/8/2000 10:24:29 PM

164. cmboyce - 3/8/2000 10:24:47 PM

Did I miss it?

165. cmboyce - 3/8/2000 10:25:55 PM

Sorry about that. The italics were to end at "never". Never, never, never.

166. RickNelson - 3/9/2000 8:00:55 AM

Marj,

Good, thanks.

167. Seguine - 3/9/2000 11:40:42 AM

ATTENTION ALL OF YOU WHO LONG for summer and have no aversion to capers: I will soon post a simple recipe in the Domestic (Home and Garden) thread.

168. ProfEmeritus - 3/9/2000 11:44:55 AM

For anyone interested in or knowledgeable about European Economic Integration, see my quiz on the Quiz Thread #5083.

169. cmboyce - 3/9/2000 4:51:22 PM

Message # 149

I don't think there is a St. Louis, WYO. I tend to notice St. Louises, having been born in St. L. MO., and I've spent many an hour dreaming and drifting over maps of WYO., and had I seen St. L., I think I'd have at least considered going there and remembered it.

And, I just looked in the index to the Rand McNally Road Atlas (not a great source, I admit, but closest to hand), and they don't have one either.

172. Seguine - 3/10/2000 1:34:35 PM

Folks, I hope the travel discussion will proceed at length, so I am copying the initial part of it (for context) and moving the last two posts to the Cafe.

173. Seguine - 3/10/2000 1:57:49 PM

The travel discussion--well, the U.S. Road Trip Discussion, not to be confused with discussions of excursions abroad to poorly outfitted train stations and Islamic militant zones--begins now at Post 11285 in the Cafe.

174. AceofSpades - 3/11/2000 7:51:53 PM

Anybody up for bridge? Let me know.

175. seguine - 3/12/2000 10:41:41 AM

A site for those who enjoy thinking deeply about worthless minutiae?

176. seguine - 3/12/2000 10:46:38 AM

An excerpt from The Journal of Mundane Behavior's submission guidelines:

"Our overall policy is to encourage the development of research in any academic discipline and by interested non-academic persons about the mundane aspects of everyday life. Interested members of the public and scholars from any discipline whose work touches on the everyday, ordinary, and apparently inconsequential are invited to submit works that meet the guidelines below. Our approach is serious yet playful, and authors should feel free to "let their hair down" in the writing of their papers and utilize a sense of humor in the development of their project."

Uh... yeah.

177. ScottLoar - 3/12/2000 11:04:09 AM

Our approach is serious yet playful....

I still can't take them seriously.

178. cmboyce - 3/12/2000 11:25:31 AM

Query: Is Jericho in fact the world's oldest existing city (as NYT has it, in a piece about Arafat inviting the Pope there)? I know I've seen other places nominated, though I don't quite recall them. One is in China, I believe, and I think Pseudoerasmus spoke, in his (late?) great travelogue, of someplace he visited, perhaps Yazd, that claimed the mantle.

Anyway, any ideas?

179. PelleNilsson - 3/12/2000 12:11:51 PM

All I can say is that it is a nice little town. Lot's of bougainvilla in the gardens, pleasant outdoors restaurants serving the classical mezzeh. Guides will take you to a pile of mud a mile or two away and tell you it's the remnants of the walls.

180. marjoribanks - 3/13/2000 12:41:40 PM

Boyce,

I've run across two cities which claim that mantle. Jericho, the one claim I believe. And Sanaa, the city in Yemen which also makes that boast.

All,

In my ongoing, unsolicited, heartfelt publicity campaign for Urbanfetch.com, let me note that today video rentals are free. That is, if you're in Manhattan, you can pick umpteen videos to watch tonight - and get them delivered in half an hour - and pay nothing. Of course, for the sheer pleasure of it, in addition to Tea with Mussolini, I've also ordered 2 CD's for 20 bucks and a book and a Fresh Samantha juice. All will be in my hands by 1. Oh yeah, and pick-up for the video is also free. Or I can drop it off at like one hundred convenient locations in the surrounding blocks.


God bless Urbanfetch.

181. janjon - 3/13/2000 12:45:58 PM

marjoribanks. If you listen to WNYC, you also will be aware of something called Kosmos. An obvious competitor to Urbanfetch. (Both of which sound like slightly more sophisticated and diverse city messenger/delivery services.)

My guess would be that what you have going on is a classic fight between two to become ONE. Enjoy the freebies and great prices while you can. (Which, hey, might be a long time.)

It does sound a bit like Alice in Wonderland, those deals you are getting.

Do they deliver in New Jersey? (low blow.)

182. Seguine - 3/13/2000 12:46:25 PM

Loar: "I still can't take them seriously."

Whereas it is the "playful" angle of which I'm dubious.

But that's because I like my satire pure. I never had that much use for the Gorilla Grrls--which for the innocent was a band of anonymous feminist artists, several of them supposedly well-known, who in the '80s used to demonstrate and post bills against sexism in the art world while wearing gorilla costumes. Much better was a group called LAW, or Ladies Against Women, which advocated in beehives and housedresses for such paleolithic causes as Phyllis Schlafly might endorse.

183. Wombat - 3/13/2000 12:47:28 PM

God bless full employment!

184. PelleNilsson - 3/13/2000 12:53:37 PM

marj

I never heard that claim about Sana'a while I lived there.

185. marjoribanks - 3/13/2000 12:56:51 PM

Wombat,

I've used Kozmo. They take an hour, far too long, but have the added advantage of delivering sandwiches for lunch. They also aren't killing themselves to provide unbelievable deals like my brothers at Urbanfetch. My hunch, since they've both raised a shitload of money recently, is that they'll go at each other for a good long time and we (Manhattan consumers) are going to be pretty happy.

BTW, I don't live in that foul state you mention -asshole- I live "just across the water."

186. marjoribanks - 3/13/2000 12:58:21 PM

Oh sorry, the asshole was janjon.

187. marjoribanks - 3/13/2000 12:59:36 PM

pelle,

I've heard it repeatedly. Mainly from tourism publicity people, but certainly they seemed to think they have a legit claim.

188. janjon - 3/13/2000 1:01:44 PM

marjoribanks. You may think of Wombat as being an asshole for other reasons, but your I-won't-name-it-again-but-it-starts-with-N-and-ends-with-Y phobia should be directed to me.

The only thing about your description of the Urbanfetch services that seems truly unbelievable is the idea that you could drop off your videos at a large number of locations in your immediate vicinity. I can't quite envision how that works from Urbanfetch's point of view.

189. Dantheman - 3/13/2000 1:04:03 PM

marj,
"They take an hour, far too long..."

In the famed words of Carrie Fisher: Instant gratification takes too long.

190. marjoribanks - 3/13/2000 1:07:01 PM

Check it out, I got my stuff one minute ago. That's fricking 25 minutes. For a random book, two random CD's, a juice and a video rental. How great is that.

JJ,
I note from my receipt that I can keep the movie till THURSDAY at 9PM. And there are at least three places I can think of to drop it off within three blocks. This is best service EVER. check it out, Moters, check it out.

(My spanking new album, Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, will be on in a minute.)

Oh yeah, another free t-shirt too.

191. theDiva - 3/13/2000 1:07:34 PM

gasp

great, great album, Banks. Enjoy.

192. janjon - 3/13/2000 1:09:11 PM

I'm going to check and see if any of my mutual funds are in Urbanfetch. If so, I am going to dump them.

193. Wombat - 3/13/2000 1:13:22 PM

Marjoramibanks:

As it happens, I am from New York City, but am gratified that you no longer have to go there to get whatever you want. That's about the only good thing about New Jersey: it is near New York.

194. marjoribanks - 3/13/2000 1:15:00 PM

Janjon,

Don't lose out on this bubble. Get stuff from Urbanfetch NOW.

Diva,

'In a sentimental Mood' is playing and it is everything I wanted. Plus -d elivered in half an hour. For an even 10.

195. theDiva - 3/13/2000 1:16:21 PM

Banks

Sometimes I really miss NY.

196. Uzmakk - 3/13/2000 1:17:57 PM

I grew up near and in NYC and Mon

197. Uzmakk - 3/13/2000 1:18:07 PM

I grew up near and in NYC and Mon

198. marjoribanks - 3/13/2000 1:21:56 PM

Wombat,

Sorry about that wasted slur. I wish I could get this service 'just across the water', it's unfortunately Manhattan only right now.

199. janjon - 3/13/2000 1:23:44 PM

marjoribanks. Even the competitive Urbanfetch wouldn't be interested in delivering as far out of the B.A. as I am.

200. CalGal - 3/14/2000 6:40:34 PM

Ace, if you see this this afternoon, could you email me? Home address is fine; I'm at work and don't have it here. (but I can pick up from incoming to home.)

201. Seguine - 3/14/2000 9:41:38 PM

Re-posted from Arts & Music (pls respond there if you can assist):

1955. KuligintheHooligan - 3/13/00 7:18:54 PM
An open question:

Does anybody here have experience with MIDI compatible software, like Cakewalk or Finale or Sibelius? I have a Yamaha Clavinova and am writing music, and would like to have some software that I can have automatically write what I play on the piano. Some years ago I had some MusicPrinterPlus software, but that is quite old and useless now. I want something new.

Anybody that has any experience in this area, please help if possible with your recommendations and experience. Thank you.

202. alistairconnor - 3/15/2000 5:18:12 AM

Hey, I know this doesn't help, but I'm interested in the answer too...

203. 109109 - 3/15/2000 9:39:07 AM

I have a query:

Will rats (regular, garden variety city rats) eat a living man who is bound and gagged and tied to a pole, bleeding, while he is still alive?

204. theDiva - 3/15/2000 9:39:37 AM

Jaysus.

Can't you just settle out of court?

205. 109109 - 3/15/2000 9:41:24 AM

Diva

This time . . . it's personal?

(actually, it is a legitimate question - I saw the scenario in a movie and I thought I'd see if some animal behavioralist or hobo could help me out)

206. theDiva - 3/15/2000 9:43:04 AM

ah.

207. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 9:45:31 AM

Sure, rats will eat a living creature if it is tied up and it doesn't even necessarily have to be bleeding. I've seen garden variety city rats (okay fearsome Bombay bandicoots) ambush and eat a living wounded crow. Why would it be different for humans.

208. 109109 - 3/15/2000 9:53:01 AM

marjori

I guess I thought the size of the prey would make it unlikely. A crow is smaller than a rat. A human is like Goliath the Rat.

209. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 10:03:54 AM

Meat is meat, 109. Helpless bleeding meat is just that, whether human or crow. Does not the lowly jackal hunt down enfeebled buffalo?

210. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:06:02 AM

marj

I suppose so. I guess city rats are a ferocious lot. I wonder if they find strength in numbers? (the scenario had a struggling, bleeding and incapacitated man being swarmed by NYC's finest vermin)

211. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:06:56 AM

Doth not the vile vulture peck at the very loin and gizzards of the noblely wounded?

212. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:08:02 AM

I was, of course, trying to match the strength of Majoribank's blank verse.

212. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:08:02 AM

They do?

I thought the vulture waited until the loin was devoid of life.

213. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:08:51 AM

I thought vultures ate dead loin and gizzard.

214. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:09:33 AM

Oops. I thought my first post had been eradicated. Sorry for the insistence on what is otherwise a minor point.

215. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 10:10:28 AM

Meat is meat, 109. Helpless bleeding meat is just that, whether human or crow. Does not the lowly jackal hunt down enfeebled buffalo?

216. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:10:32 AM

I for one can't imagine a city rat feeding on anything half live or half dead, surrounded as that rat is by the cornucopia that is the average dumpster. Rats don't like trouble but if driven to near madness by hunger I'm sure they'd eat writhing flesh, yet they'd probably eat their own kind before knawing away at Big Man. Sounds fictitious to me.

217. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:11:45 AM

Yes, vultures are carrion-eaters. I was being blithely poetic.

218. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:12:32 AM

The scenario had the crazed psycho killer tying the guy up in an abandoned warehouse of some sort in NYC. He then cut him several times, but he was still alive. Then, the rats came out and started chomping.

I was most skeptical of an abandoned warehousethat had as yet not been converted to housing.

219. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 10:12:40 AM

whoops, how did that happen.

Loar is right, many birds dubbed carrion-feeders don't wait until their intended meal is dead. It's one of the cruellest sights in nature. They do head for the eyes first.

220. theDiva - 3/15/2000 10:13:30 AM

yuck, what movie is that? Remind me never to rent it.

221. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:14:18 AM

Diva

Your reminder is in the Movies and Television thread.

222. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 10:14:19 AM

Loar,

The Indian bandicoot (giant rat) is a fearsome creature. I'm not saying that they regularly hunt down humans, I'm saying that a trussed-up and bleeding human would surely become rat-dinner if left in any number of vile byways I'm familiar with in India.

223. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:14:43 AM

What is the incidence of rats biting babies in the Big City? I haven't heard any substantiated tales of gangs of rats jumping infants much less tortured adults.

224. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:14:58 AM

marj

How big does a bandicoot get?

And what is the largest rat you have seen in NYC?

225. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:17:36 AM

Yes, but we're talking about New York where monster alligators may play in the sewers, pythons slither along radiator pipes, rats the size of dobermans frolic under the floorboards - but no bandicoots.

226. theDiva - 3/15/2000 10:18:45 AM

9r

gracias.

227. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:19:56 AM

I'm sure if the scenario were true the method would long ago have been employed to familiarity by drug dealers, mafiosa, street gangs and the idly curious.

228. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 10:20:26 AM

NY rats are pikers. Bandicoots get huge in comparison, over a foot-long bady, ugly as sin, black, with a long obscene naked tail. They're frightening, believe me.

229. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:23:14 AM

The New York Times
February 19, 1999

"Last year on Long Island there were 1,510 reported cases of dog bites, 206 cat bites, 53 rat bites, 21 bat bites and 20 raccoon bites. Statistics on human bites are not kept."

230. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:25:36 AM

And that's Long Island with a higher per capita income. What about the City? Exponential, eh?

In other words, Loar pronounces the movie scenario as fictitious.

231. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:25:40 AM

Charleston Daily Mail
April 17, 1998, Friday

"In New York City, the rat patrol battles the growing rodent
population that overruns buildings, spreads disease and attacks human beings. One official said the growing rat infestation "is a sign of decay and economic decline in society and in our quality of life."
With a ratio of one rat for each person in New York City, a rat patrol exterminator said, "What scares me is their attitude."

232. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 10:26:49 AM

"Bandicoot Rat, common name for three species of rat that inhabit Myanmar (formerly known as Burma), the Malay Peninsula, Sumatra, Java, India, and China. Bandicoot rats weigh between 0.2 and 1.5 kg (between 0.4 and 3.3 lb) and have a body length of 16 to 36 cm (6.3 to 14 in). They are major agricultural pests that eat or destroy tons of grain each year in many countries. Some species carry the fleas that are vectors of the plague. The pest rat, a smaller species that is an agricultural pest in Egypt and northern India, is sometimes known as the short-tailed bandicoot rat.
Scientific classification: Bandicoot rats belong to the family Muridae. They are classified as Bandicota bengalensis,Bandicota indica, and Bandicota savilei. The pest rat, or short-tailed bandicoot rat, is classified as Nesokia bandicota."

233. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:27:15 AM

In 1996 1,102 human bites were reported in New York City. Rats represented a mere nibble in the city's tooth-to-flesh incidents, with only 184 reported biting incidents that year.

234. theDiva - 3/15/2000 10:27:51 AM

why am i reading this?

235. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 10:28:34 AM

Yep, that 3.3 lb and 14 inches long. Though I'm sure I've seen bigger along the Bombay Docks.

236. marjoribanks - 3/15/2000 10:32:21 AM

I was in a building a few stories up above Sassoon Docks in Bombay when a fire broke out in an abandoned filthy warehouse. From above, the road came alive, seething and roiling with hundreds of thousands of these monster bandicoots fleeing the blaze. The tarmac was layered with them, and their screeching reached even our ears several stories above.

On another note, I've eaten roasted rat. Not filthy city beasts but good grain-fed farm rats, in Tamil Nadu, in the company of good-natured Irula rat-and-snake-catching tribespeople. Not too bad.

237. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:33:09 AM

Niner, get a grip. Can you recount a verifieable instance of a rat let alone a pack of rats "jumping" a human being? Yes, I saw the program on the Nature Channel recounting the travails of N.Y.'s rat fighters, but like the mythological rabies that supposedly infest rats which then wander about looking for humanperson contacting rabies through a rat bite. Now we're to believe rats mob contact there has never, never been a single documented instance of a humans? And for a meal?

238. 109109 - 3/15/2000 10:38:41 AM

Scott

I am merely tossing out facts. I have not as yet taken a position on the feasibility of a rat swarm on a bleeding man. This serious question merits more research.

239. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 10:39:02 AM

Message # 237 is jumbled. Enough to say that we're expected to believe rats mob persons to take them as a meal?

240. Seguine - 3/15/2000 12:27:11 PM

"NY rats are pikers. Bandicoots get huge in comparison, over a foot-long bady, ugly as sin, black, with a long obscene naked tail. They're frightening, believe me."

You are describing a creature I have seen (dead) on the Mall in Washington, D.C. My date laughed when, after inspecting it, I asked whether it was a possum.

This was back when I still lived in Texas. Now, of course, I'm better educated & would ask whether it was a member of Congress.

241. Seguine - 3/15/2000 12:28:46 PM

Wait, that D.C. rat was grey-brown, not black.

242. janjon - 3/15/2000 12:48:58 PM

A movie script about rats eating a tied-up person, eh. Sounds to me that Ace has given 109109 an advance peek at something.

Boston still trembles collectively at the havoc that was created in their BAMBOOZLE of all BAMBOOZLES, the BIG DIG (a massive tunnel and road relocation project going on now for many years, woefully over budget, full of corruption - classic Boston, and also now the U.S.'s largest $$$ public works project) created in terms of the relocation efforts of the millions (well, at least hundreds of thousands) of rats that were rudely disturbed by all of this.

243. wabbit - 3/15/2000 7:50:11 PM

A rat discussion! I hand-reared three pinkies from one day old and they were fabulous pets, much better than nasty gerbils.

The largest rat I've ever seen was in downtown Trenton, NJ. The body was easily a foot long; from a distance, I thought it might be an injured cat and I slowed down thinking to rescue it. Upon realizing it was a rat, I showed it the proper respect and gave it wide berth, lest the impact damage the Corvette I was driving at the time.

My fiance (known here as Misunderstood Genius) says that what Banks says about the Sassoon Docks in Bombay is absolutely accurate. The multitude of stray cats hide from the bandicoots, I hear.

Sometime in this past year there was an article in George magazine about the rats in NYC. Worth reading, if one is inclined in any way toward rats.

244. cmboyce - 3/15/2000 7:52:30 PM

NY rats will nibble on babies left alone in rat-infested apartments. (The leaving alone of babies is, as you might imagine, correlates closely with rat-infested apartment dwelling.) I suppose the "jump 'em", but it's hard to say.

I'm with Seguine. I've seen rats the size of the bandicoots Marj described. There are also lots (rather more, in my experience) of smaller ones. But the big guys are around; I saw one in a PATH train station just the other day. Charcoal gray, very nicely camoflaged against the filthy ties, rails and floor.

245. cmboyce - 3/15/2000 7:55:23 PM

Delete "is" and for "the" read "they", in the first paragraph of 244. Sheesh.

246. ScottLoar - 3/15/2000 8:05:12 PM

A true story. I was just outside the compound talking to the Vietnamese guards when a terrier came leaping towards the knot of us, passing right between our legs as one of the guards began to viciously kick at this animal which went right on by. I realized then it was a rat, biggest I'd ever seen. Some while later I noticed the rat some small way off, grooming or whatever. I took a carbine from a guard and fired. The rat took the round with a jump, shuddered and lay flat. I walked over, honestly thinking to put a second round in him, for I wasn't sure he was dead. He was, but I remember marvelling the thing could take a round like that all out of proportion to his size. The Vietnamese guards, bored to hell, were thrilled by it all, one hurrying up with an ammo can and stuffing the rat into it. This is an ammo can, the kind that carries linked rounds for machineguns, and the rat was stuffed into that can with a stick.

My day was done and I left them to their amusement which was to burn the corpse, but that was the biggest damned rat I ever saw. I honestly thought it was a terrier at first glance.

247. joezan - 3/16/2000 12:07:19 AM

The herpetarium at the John Ball Zoo in Grand Rapids has a bandicoot - it shares a glassed-in "habitat" with a giant tree sloth, for some reason. The bandicoot has to be at least 18 inches long (minus tail, which adds another 10 inches or so). It is the rattiest loking rat I've ever seen - Gilbert Gottfried's got nothing on this monster. Enormous, razor-sharp teeth, too.

248. RosettaStone - 3/16/2000 12:26:07 AM

Rats!

...talk about being off topic. This should be in Wabbit's Inferno, not notices and queries.

Where is the the deletor Pill when you need him?

249. Indiana Jones - 3/16/2000 8:55:10 AM

If anyone is interested in hosting the Temple of Doom, I would be open to stepping aside. I volunteered only as an interim move to "restore order." Four months and about a 1,000 posts later, perhaps someone else would like to give hosting a try.

In preparation of the new host, I've renamed the thread "Religion and Philosophy."

250. marjoribanks - 3/16/2000 9:59:36 AM

Zan,

What you saw was a bandicoot, not a bandicoot rat. The former is a marsupial.

251. marjoribanks - 3/16/2000 10:02:38 AM

Wabbit,

You're marrying a desi? How wonderful. Congratulations. Is he a Mumbaiite?

252. marjoribanks - 3/16/2000 1:00:08 PM

Urbanfetch produced my order in exactly ten minutes today. My mind is blown.

253. janjon - 3/16/2000 1:01:57 PM

God, they do that TOO?

254. marjoribanks - 3/16/2000 1:40:34 PM

Ha.

JanJon, Urbanfetch is the SHIT. The Stan Getz quartet with Chet Baker (Quintessence) is playing right now. Delivered. For a tenner. In fricking 25 minutes. Of course, I also got the Enminem album (my name is..my name is..my name is...) but I've been barred from playing it by the nearby office mates after the first seven plays of the #2 track. Free chocolate chip cookies and a hat this time.

God Bless Urbanfetch.

255. marjoribanks - 3/16/2000 1:41:14 PM

Ten minutes. It was ten minutes today. Mindblowing, eh.

256. Jenerator - 3/16/2000 1:42:09 PM

Please tell me that you tip these guys.

257. marjoribanks - 3/16/2000 1:44:22 PM

Tips not accepted. A crucial element to the Urbanfetch appeal.

258. marjoribanks - 3/16/2000 1:45:21 PM

Urbanfetch

259. wabbit - 3/16/2000 9:41:27 PM

Banks,

First of all, congratulations to you and Mrs. Banks!

And yes, I am, thank you. His family is from Kerala, but moved to the big city where he grew up. He knows all about those bandicoot rats.

260. joezan - 3/16/2000 10:28:41 PM

Banks:

What you saw was a bandicoot, not a bandicoot rat. The former is a marsupial.

No kidding?

It's still the rattiest rat I've ever seen.

261. Seguine - 3/17/2000 10:09:26 AM

Have we discussed snakes yet? No?

262. Seguine - 3/17/2000 10:12:16 AM

02:06 PM ET 03/16/00

Snake With Legs Fossil Found

By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP)

A team of researchers has reached into a dusty
drawer and pulled out a snake with legs.
The discovery could upset at least some theories about the
evolution of snakes.

The fossil had been sitting in the museum drawer at the Hebrew
University in Jerusalem since the death in the early 1980s of
researcher Georg Haas, said Olivier Rieppel of the Field Museum in
Chicago.

A team of researchers led by Rieppel rediscovered the fossil and
gave it a scientific description and official name _ Haasiophis
terrasanctus _ in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

The snake's legs aren't much to brag about. They are too small
in relation to the animal's body to have any function in moving the
snake, Rieppel said.

Modern pythons have a rudimentary hind limb, usually little more
than a claw of cartilage tipped with bone that they use during
mating and occasional fighting, and it is possible that Haasiophis'
leg served a similar purpose, he said.

Found in the West Bank area of Israel, Haasiophis was a marine
snake, Rieppel said. He said it appears to have been able to widen
its jaw like boas and pythons, enabling it to eat prey larger than
its body.

Haasiophis is the second limbed snake to come from the same
site. The first, Pachyrhachis problematicus, had been thought by some
researchers to be at the base of the snake family tree, indicating
a marine origin for snakes. Others speculate that snakes evolved
from small land lizards.

(cont.)

263. Seguine - 3/17/2000 10:12:38 AM

Rieppel said the new find appears to be closely related to
Pachyrhachis. But his team's analysis also indicates that these two snakes were not primitive ancestors, but advanced snakes similar to modern boas and pythons. The new anatomical interpretation suggests that neither Pachyrhachis nor Haasiophis have anything to do with snake origins.

265. Seguine - 3/17/2000 2:37:55 PM

Sorry, MizPhys. Post 264 is now in the Inferno.

266. Adrianne - 3/20/2000 12:00:53 PM

Does anyone on The Mote *read* Chinese?

267. Indiana Jones - 3/20/2000 12:01:55 PM

Ad: I know someone who reads Chinese.

268. theDiva - 3/20/2000 12:02:03 PM

I think ScottLoar might.

269. JadeGold1 - 3/20/2000 12:12:30 PM

Depends, Adrianne.

270. Adrianne - 3/20/2000 12:23:58 PM

Jade? Hi, nice to see you.

It's not important, I just have a really stupid, embarrassing, provincial question that I can't get out of my mind to ask someone. Obviously, via email.

271. ScottLoar - 3/20/2000 1:27:54 PM

Yes, I read Chinese, much colloquial and some classical, can usually divine independently of simplified or traditional characters if the text is from Taiwan, Hong Kong, mainland China, or from the Straits and am a fair translator as well. PincherMartin can read Chinese.

272. ScottLoar - 3/20/2000 1:30:14 PM

I won't charge for simple translation of short length. You want mo' bettah' and the timeclock starts ticking.

273. CalGal - 3/20/2000 2:28:51 PM

All right, folks, come on and play the Oscar contest. The announcement is in the headlines on the front page; it will take you to the ballot. No need to have seen the movies; it certainly won't do much to improve your chances.

Cash prizes.

274. Max Macks - 3/23/2000 12:49:25 AM

Wow , someone who can read Chinese.
This is my first time in the Mote and already I am overwhelmed.

Someone once showed me the Kanji for book.
One Kanji and only 5000 more to learn.

275. Max Macks - 3/23/2000 12:49:56 AM

what means "Check for Dust"?

276. ee - 3/23/2000 1:42:53 AM

Welcome to the Mote Max Macks. Check for dust is a reminder to see that you've closed any HTML tags you may have used to juice up your post.

277. PelleNilsson - 3/23/2000 1:46:00 AM

Also, Max, you will see your post in a preview window as it will appear in the Mote.

278. Max Macks - 3/23/2000 11:28:58 AM

A preview window, Pelle? Do you mean the box I am writing in?
I dont see any thing that says "preview window"

279. Indiana Jones - 3/23/2000 11:31:14 AM

Max: When you click on "check for dust," you should see what your post will look like above the box you're writing in.

280. Dantheman - 3/23/2000 11:31:51 AM

Max,
If you hit the "check for dust" button, then you will see a preview of your post. You can check your links, make sure only those words that you want to be italicized or in different colors or fonts actually are, etc.

Welcome to the Mote.

281. JudithAtHome - 3/23/2000 11:38:35 AM

Hi Max and welcome...the check for dust button is for editing purposes. In theMote, however, you edit before you post.

282. theDiva - 3/23/2000 11:41:01 AM

Max! Welcome!

Judith is correct, it's prolly a good idea to edit before you post....unless you're in the Cafe, in which case carefully composed posts kinda stick out like a sore thumb.

In any case, nice to have you here.

283. DanDillon - 3/23/2000 3:23:04 PM

Max Macks,
This is my first time in the Mote and already I am overwhelmed.

Welcome to The Mote. There are many impressive folks here. And something tells me you'll be able to contribute a great deal. What is your native language? Please respond in Language, since this thread is only for Notices and Queries.

284. Raskolnikov - 3/23/2000 3:30:30 PM

You mean we can ask questions here, but answers have to posted elsewhere?

285. Indiana Jones - 3/23/2000 7:27:29 PM

I'll be offline until Monday but will try to check the Gatekeeper mailing account between now and then.

286. Seguine - 3/23/2000 9:02:57 PM

Rask,

Answers need not be posted elsewhere unless you believe I'll decide they constitute "chat", in which case you should move the conversation to the appropriate thread.

Flaming and unprovoked hostilities won't be tolerated here; they'll be deleted or moved, depending on how much I've had to drink. Peculiar conversations may be allowed to stand if I think they have no better place to go. Interesting exchanges that I think should continue, but not here, will be copied into the thread where I believe they ought to live.

Max/cks,

Hey howdy yo, ya'll. Hope you brung some cupcakes to this party, by which I mean beer.

287. Max Macks - 3/24/2000 5:42:17 PM

Thanks for warm wecome folks.

This should not be construed as an "answer" , Dan Dillion..

just my private opinion. I speak some English but often mispell the words there in.

My native language is Minnesotan.

I am hoping this opinion slips by the stern hostess.
Is she a she or is she a he and is Seguine as sanguine as her name?

288. ProfEmeritus - 3/24/2000 6:28:20 PM

Max Macks

I want to add my warm welcome. I can also read Chinese, but my reading skills are rusty and not for sale. I learned the language during WWII, and even used to correspond in Chinese, but disuse has taken its toll.

289. Max Macks - 3/24/2000 7:43:40 PM

Just the thought of folks who know more than one kanji , boggles my mind.

Tell, me Professor, how do folks here keep track of where they post?
do they have a little note book and jot down the thread and the number. I don't mean you. Anyone who can read Chinese probably has
a photgraphic memory and probably remembers every post that has
ever been posted here.
Which reminds me to ask how this forum ( is that the term?)
get started.

290. Seguine - 3/24/2000 9:15:49 PM

cks/x,

Seguine can be bloody or rosily carefree.

I'm a girl, but goatish.

The forum was begun when Slate's Fray changed its format to BBS. The membership, with notable exceptions, hightailed it en masse to this location provided by Jay Ackroyd, engineered by Alistair Connor, and interfaced by CalGal. Others provided financial and volunteer assistance early and later. Wabbit is our supreme being; IrvingSnodgrass has supplied advice; JJ Biener was original gatekeeper, I believe (the job now apparently belongs to Indiana Jones).

Inquire of Wabbit, CalGal, or Alistair to confirm, correct, or elaborate on the foregoing.

291. Max Macks - 3/25/2000 3:16:58 PM

Thanks, Goat Girl, for the historical perspective . Wonder how folks
find this place.
Yes Indiana Jones is the gatekeeper who let me in. Tho it was
not easy , I had to prove that I was an American Citizen and
would never vote for a Republican. After that she was very
pleasant and efficient.

292. profemeritus - 3/25/2000 3:43:12 PM

Max

I can always remember where I have posted by the subject. If I want to refer to a particular post later or reread it, I jot down the number.

293. Lucky - 3/25/2000 3:56:46 PM

Howdy, Max. I hope we can forget old differences and proceed from this point. Good to see you.

294. CalGal - 3/25/2000 5:00:25 PM

Don't forget, everyone, to submit a ballot in the Mote Oscar contest. Admission is free, and you don't need to have seen any of the movies. For details, check the link in the headlines.

Oscar Ballot

Oscar Quiz

295. CalGal - 3/25/2000 6:20:22 PM

Seguine:

I drove up to Emeryville the other day to visit a friend, and insisted on Le Cheval for dinner. I did not have to insist for more than a second; she easily consented.

We had their spectacular banh hoi (with shrimp, since she won't eat meat, dammit), claypot shrimp, calimari with lemon grass, and their broiled mussels.

296. Max Macks - 3/25/2000 7:52:27 PM

293-

Lucky???

I think I "met" a Mr. Lucky somewhere....Salon Table TAlk??

Please remind me of whatever differences we had so that I can
then forget them, because I can't remember any.

297. Seguine - 3/26/2000 11:09:18 AM

CalGal, any more unnecessary cruelty and you and your shrimp will be banished from this thread.

298. Max Macks - 3/26/2000 11:29:52 PM

Seguine...as a Newbie I see some discussions/threads or whatever
your term is...that I don't understand what they are about.
Is there some brief description of the threads herein?

299. Seguine - 3/27/2000 2:43:38 PM

x/cks,

Threads are more or less topical depending on the whims of their hosts. You can get an idea of what a thread is about either by consulting the first few messages in that thread, where the host often provides a description of the thread's purpose(s) and parameters, or by clicking on the link some hosts provide (usually at the top of the yellowish column, locally referred to as the "butterscotch bar", located to the right of the discussion) that says something like "XYZ Thread's Purpose".

Also, of course, reading the thread is advisable. A quick-moving discussion (look at the post dates) often is best comprehended if you look back over at least the previous 100 posts.

More questions of this sort can be posted to the Technical Issues or Try the Mote threads. Also, you might get good advice in the New Thread and Feature Suggestions thread, which is read regularly by Wabbit.

300. Hadrian - 3/27/2000 7:58:43 PM

This time last month I subscribed to "The Well". I canceled my subscription yesterday. The place is mainly populated by people that have been their for more than 5 years. Many 10 years plus. They are not hospitable to newcomers. One of the hosts on a help section referred to new subscribers as "stupid newbies". The head of the place a woman named Gail Williams (gail@well.com) does not even answer email unless you make a point of it in a thread. These people charge $15.00 a month unless you are a old timer and for them its $10 or less. They really do not give you anything for this except access to their discussion boards and an email address.

Someone at TableTalk told me about The Mote and I hope I will enjoy myself here. I have been using online community boards since 1985 and I really enjoy them, the information that can be found out, relationships with regulars and more.

301. SnowOwl - 3/27/2000 8:04:09 PM

Welcome, Hadrian. I suggest you begin by poking around in the various threads to get a feel for the place, or just jump right in and join in anywhere you feel so inclined.

302. CalGal - 3/27/2000 8:12:11 PM

Hello, Hadrian! Welcome.

You may be called stupid here at the Mote. But it won't be because you're new. Insults are issued regardless of a poster's seniority.

Threads have varying degrees of civility; tone is set by the thread host.

Here is a draft FAQ. Please don't view it as gospel, but just a starting point--this hasn't been blessed by the members yet. If you have any questions, post them in Suggestions.

Wabbit is our forum administrator, but anyone may step in and answer a question based on their understanding.

303. profemeritus - 3/27/2000 8:46:51 PM

Welcome, Hadrian! The facilitator of the Mote's predecessor dragged me into it, and I have never been sorry. I wasn't treated as a "newbie". I have never been insulted or called bad names. Some Moties like that sort of thing, but you will not be forced to participate in calumny - I hope. Keep away from a few maladjusted people.

304. Max Macks - 3/27/2000 10:59:27 PM

Hadrian , as an old timer here of one week ( ok --maybe it's been only 5 days)
but I wanna extend to you a special welcome since I am no longer
the newest Newbie.

I too am a recent immigrent from Salon TT... and
even after 5 days I am finding this place still very plesant.

305. Seguine - 3/28/2000 12:08:33 PM

Query for ANYONE:

Has anyone read a new book by Amartya Sen, "Development As Freedom"? I'm thinking it looks interesting, would like any recommendations for or against.

306. Seguine - 3/28/2000 12:17:07 PM

ScottLoar, in International: "...business associates (the euphemism for people you'd love to do without but can't as you're all thrown together for commercial convenience even while busy advancing over each others' mistakes and weaknesses)"

I wonder if this witticism of Loar's indicates to anyone else that it's about time for us to construct a Mote Dictionary of Special Terms and Interpretive Insights.

307. Indiana Jones - 3/28/2000 1:00:42 PM

DantheMan: You may not have noticed it because the Movie thread has been so busy today, but re your question about Shakespeare videos, please see my post #7052 in that thread.

308. Dantheman - 3/28/2000 1:04:11 PM

IJ,
I saw it. Not what I necessarily wanted, though.

309. 109109 - 3/28/2000 1:07:32 PM

I saw Boiler Room, a film I enjoyed. I have queries to anyone who has a) seen the film and b) knows about stock brokers and such (janjon?).

How plausible was the scam that lay at the heart of the picture?

Have there ever been any high profile (or low-profile) arrests of such "chop shops"?

Explain to me the mechanics of getting investors in on a crappy or non-existent company on the market? While I understand buzz drives the stock price up, and the head of the company owned the stock, so he could sell at the zenith (thus being able to pay the high fees to his brokers), how could a non-existent company get on the market?

310. janjon - 3/28/2000 1:32:13 PM

Haven't seen the movie. Yet. Have some knowledge about stock brokerage but not anything sufficiently hands on to have insights about boiler rooms or stock brokerage "sales encouragement" techniques.

311. janjon - 3/28/2000 1:34:08 PM

a non-existent company? One that, say, had a NASDAQ listing so that the schmucks who were doing the buying presumably could look in their papers or on their screen and find out how the stock was doing?

No way, IRL.

312. Max Macks - 3/29/2000 12:40:44 AM

What happned to Hadrian...Did all this friendly welcoming scare him away? I hate to be the only new kid on the block.

313. PincherMartin - 3/29/2000 8:15:08 PM

Could someone send me MsIT's e-mail address? My reason for contacting her concerns a matter regarding her hosting responsibility in the Legal Corner thread. Thank you.

314. CalGal - 3/29/2000 8:28:18 PM

She doesn't check her hotmail account all that often. You might want to send a note to wabbit.

315. PincherMartin - 3/29/2000 8:36:35 PM

Thanks.

316. pseudoerasmus - 3/29/2000 9:26:35 PM

Pincher, go to WTO thread and take care of a few problems.

317. PincherMartin - 3/29/2000 9:41:30 PM

Thanks.

318. Max Macks - 3/29/2000 11:10:41 PM

Do all the Mote Folks live in the Eastern Time Zone
or do most of the Motes post from work and not after 5PM EST
Or what?

319. Max Macks - 3/30/2000 2:54:50 PM

Hello....time to begin the Seguine

320. cazart - 3/30/2000 3:03:52 PM

So, Stinky aka Indiana Jones is gonna sued for defaming Nelson Mandela?

Hell, he's done a lot worse than that.

321. Indiana Jones - 3/30/2000 3:15:30 PM

Toys.

322. PincherMartin - 3/30/2000 7:11:22 PM

Is the Mote Moderator on vacation? Almost twenty-four hours ago, I sent an e-mail requiring immediate attention, and I still have not had a response. Does she check her e-mail?

323. Indiana Jones - 3/30/2000 7:58:03 PM

Pincher: Is there something I can help you with? Probably not...but you can email me gatekeeper@themote.com.

324. PincherMartin - 3/30/2000 8:04:50 PM

Indiana --

Incoming.

325. Indiana Jones - 3/30/2000 8:12:14 PM

PM: Outgoing.

326. Seguine - 3/31/2000 12:53:05 PM

Pincher,

I gather from the above that you discovered the source of the ID problem and took measures to have the, um, hole sewn shut?

327. Seguine - 3/31/2000 12:54:51 PM

My apologies, BTW. I kept thinking it would right itself. Didn't occur to me immediately what had happened or why.

328. CalGal - 3/31/2000 1:00:06 PM

That WebX bug is a bitch.

329. PincherMartin - 3/31/2000 1:54:47 PM

Seguine --

Thanks, it's solved.

345. Seguine - 4/1/2000 12:34:37 AM

PsychProf: PincherMartin had a legitimate concern and posted a legitimate query about it. In future, please take personal criticisms and baiting to the Inferno, or to one of the other threads where they're welcomed.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Notices and Queries Thread has entertained enough bickering for one evening. Posts 330-344 will be moved to their natural home.

346. Seguine - 4/1/2000 12:45:19 AM

(That is, they were moved, to the Inferno. But only the first of them is showing up there now; I have no idea why.)

347. Ubiquitous - 4/1/2000 4:04:01 AM

Question:
What time zone / region do you sysop from ?
The time stamp on my posts are several hours prior to me in E.S.T.

348. SnowOwl - 4/1/2000 4:14:28 AM

Ubiquitous

You can change the time to your own zone by clicking on profile data in the butterscotch bar and editing your data.

349. SnowOwl - 4/1/2000 4:16:05 AM

And welcome to The Mote.

350. Ubiquitous - 4/1/2000 4:26:38 AM

Do i enter a plus or minus sign and do the time stamps update all post to my zone or just my posts ?(" hope that made sense ")

351. Ubiquitous - 4/1/2000 4:43:47 AM

And thank you !

352. SnowOwl - 4/1/2000 5:25:33 AM

Yes, enter a plus or minus sign and the number of hours you are away from GMT. All posts will then show in your time.

359. Seguine - 4/1/2000 9:43:57 AM

Rosetta, you get your wish. The transfer this morning of your 353 to Inferno somehow unveiled the terribly important messages you wanted preserved for posterity. (Which is as I intended it originally, so all to the good as far as I care.)

It does not trouble me that you are annoyed. Nor am I concerned that the loss of any of your witticisms to the ether will damage the substance of the Mote. But one more snipe and I will blithely DELETE your exchange with Candide through post 358.

Candide: if you would prefer not to have that slightly paranoid, short cadenza of yours about Ubiquitous left standing, I will be happy to delete your posts, and so Rosetta's comments to them, upon request.

360. RosettaStone - 4/1/2000 9:59:57 AM

Keep it here, or fear the wrath of Khan!

361. PsychProf - 4/1/2000 10:34:15 AM

Seguine...I shall not annoy you with any more posts in this thread. I will, however, watch your posts carefully to see if you live up to the lofty criteria you set for others. If you don't, I expect you to delete/move your own posts with swift and final action...haha...in any case, it's a neat thread, and seems to serve multiple need for Moteheads.

362. Candide - 4/1/2000 3:43:32 PM

Seguine 359

Thanks. I did feel a bit stupid afterwards. Please delete it.

363. Candide - 4/1/2000 4:39:52 PM

Seguine I meant 354 and 355. You can go on to 6 and 7 if you like.

366. RosettaStone - 4/1/2000 5:08:23 PM

You have to be one tough SOB to post in the Balkan Civil War thread, SnowOwl. Some birds just don't cut it.

I was at a yard sale one day and saw a box marked "Electronic cat and dog call--guaranteed to work." I looked inside and was amused to see an electric can opener."

(thanks Bret Sohl)

367. Seguine - 4/1/2000 5:09:24 PM

Posts 354-358 will be deleted. The discussion of the hideousness of these and other deletions, and the even greater hideousness of your host's shortcomings, should continue in the Inferno, toward which end I've moved posts 364 and 365 there. (With a nod to SnowOwl--I know you're trying to be helpful, but let's please change the subject.)

368. RosettaStone - 4/1/2000 5:44:27 PM

Darn it. You screwed it up again Seguine. If you're going to move all those gosh darn posts include 366. And Make sure it follows #365.

Can't you do anything RIGHT???

369. Seguine - 4/1/2000 8:31:58 PM

Gee, Rosetta, I sort of liked the second paragraph of your 366. Non-sequitur though the post may now appear, there is a certain light harmlessness to it.

But of course, I would honor your request to delete it if you were to ask with a modicum of civility.

370. Seguine - 4/2/2000 10:19:17 AM

ANYONE:

Has anybody read Robert Conquest's "Reflections on a Ravaged Century"? I'd like to see an endorsement or dismissal of it (here, or if lengthy, in Books).

Thanks.

371. CalGal - 4/3/2000 5:46:59 PM

The Mote's movie review site, The Mote @ the Movies has recently been updated (reviews posted through beginning of March).

For those of you who don't know of the site: If you ever post a review in Movies, I'll put it on the site. The reviews don't have to be long, but they do have to be reasonably standalone and something beyond the words "I liked it" or "I didn't like it". I'm trying to find an easy way of tabulating thumbs up/thumbs down votes, but no luck yet.

As an example of a self-sufficient short review, here's Niner's paragraph on Bowfinger:

This was a very funny picture, and I recommend it as a solid rental to all. Eddie Murphy pretty much steals the movie in two roles, but Steve Martin's script is smart, and the physical comedy is laugh-out-loud. I was disappointed that I did not get to see Heather Graham's breasts (as was suggested by the previews), but "Boogie Nights" and the Lenny Kravitz video for "American Woman." will have to suffice.

You can also find IMD reference links for each movie, and if you buy a movie from the site 15% of proceeds go to the Mote.

There are bound to be bugs; please mention any you find in Movies, or email me at the_calgal@yahoo.com.

372. Candide - 4/3/2000 8:46:27 PM

Does anyone know whether Ilya Vinarsky has been hurt by the Microsoft fiasco?

Good luck Ilya if you're reading this.

373. Indiana Jones - 4/4/2000 5:00:27 PM

This is to announce that cazart's ID was disabled yesterday for his disruption of the Mote Movies thread. I took this action in wabbit's absence based on precedence (she had previously disabled his login when he did the same thing in policies) and the initial list of duties Alistair assigned when appointing me to the position of Gatekeeper. I simultaneously notified wabbit so that she could override my decision if she thought it was in error.

Until wabbit had a chance to respond, I considered the matter closed. But as cazart's status has caused some confusion in the Mote thread at TT, I want to clarify the situation.

Disabling cazart's account was a unilateral decision by me that I judged the best response to his behavior. When wabbit returns, she will as always make the final call.

374. PelleNilsson - 4/4/2000 5:29:19 PM

Indiana

With all due respect I consider the banning premature. It was not all that bad and CalGal handled it well. Knowing that there is a lot of bad feelings between you and cazart it could be construed as abuse of power.

375. CalGal - 4/4/2000 5:34:57 PM

We might want to move this conversation to Suggestions/Features? or Policies, now that I think of it.

376. Raskolnikov - 4/4/2000 5:40:05 PM

Conflict of interest be damned. If Wabbit had delegated admin responsibilities to me, I would have cut off Cazart's access after the first reposting of spoilers.

377. PelleNilsson - 4/4/2000 5:54:21 PM

I start to wonder about the "Move Post" feature. The above posts are in Policies but they remain here as well.

378. CalGal - 4/4/2000 5:56:04 PM

I wonder if Seguine is copying them? I used the feature yesterday and it worked. But maybe it works differently when moving multiple posts.

379. Seguine - 4/4/2000 5:57:10 PM

Posts 373-376 have been copied to the Mote Policies subthread (located within the New Thread and Feature Suggestions thread--look for the blue link to Policies near the top of the butterscotch bar.)

Further discussion and commentary should probably be posted in the subthread, now that Indy has made his announcement.

380. Seguine - 4/4/2000 6:00:19 PM

Pelle, CalGal--You guys are running slightly ahead of me....

381. pseudoerasmus - 4/4/2000 6:00:48 PM

Ilya announced that he was leaving Microsoft. I've no idea why. I suspect it has nothing to do with the recent court decision and everything to do with opportunity elsewhere.

382. Raskolnikov - 4/4/2000 6:02:31 PM

Ilya had announced that a couple of weeks ago, long before the MS announcement was made.

Hopefully he had a chance to exercise his stock options, and cash them out, first.

383. CalGal - 4/4/2000 6:03:23 PM

I saw that. I was surprised at some folks assuming it was related to the MS decision. I wish him well, wherever he ends up.

385. Seguine - 4/5/2000 4:17:22 PM

Announcement: Rosetta has made a post calling for a change to the RoE. It does not belong in this thread, so has been moved to Policies.

386. Seguine - 4/5/2000 4:20:40 PM

Correction: Stone's 384 was moved to New Thread and Feature Suggestions.

387. MsIvoryTower - 4/5/2000 5:00:48 PM

I just want to announce that I've been reading and reading the last 24 hours of posts.

I'm positive there must be a full moon out.

Somewhere in the world, at the very least.

388. TabouliJones - 4/5/2000 5:15:52 PM

I'd just like to announce that I picked up the cigarette habit to get me through exams. I would blame Ace (as one of his posts was the inspiration for this madness), except it is so fucking cool. I am in flavour country and digging it.

You can now go back to your regularly scheduled programming.

389. PelleNilsson - 4/5/2000 5:25:37 PM

MsIt

When the moon is full it's full everywhere.

390. pseudoerasmus - 4/5/2000 5:47:42 PM

I am in flavour country and digging it.

Tabouli, I smoked from 16 to 28 (that was almost four years ago). The reason I quit was not the scare stories about nicotine destroying blood vessels and causing impotence (which doesn't really happen until Pelle's age), but because after a while you can only taste cigarettes....

391. Raskolnikov - 4/5/2000 5:53:52 PM

Fear of lung cancer or emphysema wasn't sufficient?

392. pseudoerasmus - 4/5/2000 5:56:33 PM

Barely occurred to me.

393. TabouliJones - 4/5/2000 6:00:08 PM

PE,

I am only up to five or six cigarettes per day, so I can't make any claims to a respectable habit. I will probably quit for aesthetic reasons: I just can't seem to get the proper affectations down and invariably end up looking like a complete bonehead whenever I light up. Also, my girlfriend won't stand for it for too long, so I will be a non-smoker again by the end of April. Still, I plan to enjoy the habit while I can. I'll smoke a few for you.

394. Raskolnikov - 4/5/2000 6:02:08 PM

I had a grandfather and an uncle die of smoking related lung cancer, and my wife's grandfather had to carry a large oxygen tank with him for 20 years because of smoking related emphysema. Watching their illnesses soured me on the idea of ever taking it up.

395. pseudoerasmus - 4/5/2000 6:03:13 PM

Tabouli, Northamerican women are particularly intolerant about smoking. Perhaps they're different in Montreal.

396. CalGal - 4/5/2000 6:03:17 PM

My favorite aunt died of emphysema--much earlier than we expected, thanks to lousy medical advice. But I never wanted to smoke anyway.

And I grew up in Saudi Arabia, lest you all make snide remarks about Californians.

397. Seguine - 4/5/2000 6:07:16 PM

TJ: "...it is so fucking cool."

Very. You sound more fascinating already.

PE: "I smoked from 16 to 28... "

Me too. I wonder if it's a designated age-range, after which one somehow, almost automatically, quits.

Tabouli, how much more time do you have? Smoke imports, make it count!

398. TabouliJones - 4/5/2000 6:08:48 PM

My girlfriend is actually Hungarian. Montreal is well known as a relative smokers' paradise. More people smoke on average in Montreal than most other cities. Toronto, is relatively uptight about smoking, however, and that is where I will be moving in May.

By the way: going back three generations on my mother's side, my father's side, and my stepmother's side, every single member of my family took up the habit come the age of fifteen or sixteen. I was always the notable exception.

399. Raskolnikov - 4/5/2000 6:08:51 PM

Pseudo: in your non-smoking days, did you ever date a smoker? Smoking is uncommon enough here that if woman doesn't want to lick an ashtray every time she kisses her boyfriend, she doesn't have to. I dated a couple smokers, and it was the thing I liked least about both of them. The damned smell and taste permeates everything about them.

400. Seguine - 4/5/2000 6:09:56 PM

[cp]

401. TabouliJones - 4/5/2000 6:10:31 PM

Seguine,

I am smoking a Quebec brand called Craven A. They are cheap and much scorned by proper smokers. I couldn't resist the name, tho. It just seems so appropriate.

402. SnowOwl - 4/5/2000 6:13:53 PM

Craven A used to be an English brand. I'm a chain smoker, but today was to be yet another day when I was going to try giving up. I think I'll leave it till tomorrow. All this talk of smoking has me twitching.

403. Seguine - 4/5/2000 6:14:52 PM

Craven A?!

Well I would have smoked them. A pack, anyway. How could one not, with marketing like that?

Preferred Murcan brands were Winstons and Camels. I had a friend who smoked Viceroys--I think it was Viceroys. Blue package...? Anyway, the stench was distinctive.

Dunhills were good.

404. pseudoerasmus - 4/5/2000 6:15:18 PM

#398: I have visited only two places in Canada, Toronto and Montréal, and I infinitely preferred the latter. Not an uncommon reaction, I'm sure. Hungarian from Hungary, or one of these second-generation types that Canada is simply brimming with?

#399: Raskolnikov, the only time I didn't smoke was before 16 (or maybe it was 15) and since 1996. My fiancée, the one I've been with since 1996, is definitely intolerant of smoking. But I had quit before I met her.

405. pseudoerasmus - 4/5/2000 6:16:48 PM

Dunhills are absolutely awful. So are most other Brit brands, like Rothman's. Hamlets are okay.

406. TabouliJones - 4/5/2000 6:20:54 PM

The Dunhills caught my eye as well. If I do take up the habit, I will end up smoking a brand marketed by Imperial Tobacco (a division of British-American Tobacco). A good friend of mine works for them and actually gets a free carton of cigarettes a week.

Of course, I am most certain that I will be done this little hobby as of April 18th, my last day of exams. For now, the nicotine seems good for my brain, and it is certainly reducing the strell level.

I should actually hit the books again.

Smokers of the Mote Unite.

407. ChristinO - 4/5/2000 6:23:10 PM

Camel Filters were my brand of choice although the occasional American Spirit was nice for a change. I always wanted to smoke Balkan Sobranies because of the little tin, but I didn't like unfiltered and they were too hard to find.

408. Candide - 4/5/2000 6:24:36 PM

I once played Prince Orlovsky in Die Fledermaus and I had to walk down a curved silver staircase wearing a monocle while smoking a black sobranie. Do I win?

409. TabouliJones - 4/5/2000 6:29:09 PM

PE,

I prefer Toronto, but most people agree with your view. Montreal's charms are far more obvious. Toronto does have its charms, but it takes some time for them to properly reveal themselves. My girlfriend is a real Hungarian. She moved to Canada when she was twenty, which was about nine years ago. The last 11 months, however, she has been in Europe working and attending school in Berlin and Budapest. When she returns to Canada in May, it should be interesting. Whenever she returns from a trip to Europe she immediately begins to disdain North Americans, especially North American women. Lord help me.

410. pseudoerasmus - 4/5/2000 6:32:28 PM

Tabouli, I envy you your Hungarian. Hungarian women are quite desirable and luscious.

411. ChristinO - 4/5/2000 6:37:14 PM

Candide,

Yep. That beats any smoking I had to do on stage.

412. TabouliJones - 4/5/2000 6:38:46 PM

PE,

My Hungarian babe is indeed beautiful and I am lucky. I am also happy to report that her mother managed to hold onto her looks as she aged and is indeed still quite the babe herself -- which really makes me hopeful for the future. Me, I plan on letting myself go as soon as my girlfriend and I get married.

Cheers. Time to actually study for a couple of hours.

413. Seguine - 4/5/2000 6:40:50 PM

PE: "Dunhills are absolutely awful."

Pshaw. As of 1988, they were still far superior to American cigarettes of any variety.

But that's about when I quit, after waking up three mornings in a row having dreamed I smoked all the previous night.

Candide, I had forgotten about Sobranies, which were extremely cool indeed.

414. Candide - 4/5/2000 8:20:43 PM

ChristineO #411

What smoking did you do on stage?

415. Candide - 4/5/2000 8:21:40 PM

Seguine

AND I could blow smoke into the face of a tenor!

416. Indiana Jones - 4/5/2000 8:22:14 PM

If any Motier is a member of Mensa, I would like to ask a favor of you. Please email me: IndianaJones@resourceful.com.

Thanks.

417. Candide - 4/5/2000 8:28:29 PM

I've got a bet on who is and I BET I'm right. Not saying whom.

418. Indiana Jones - 4/6/2000 11:55:48 AM

soupisgoodfood: I have temporarily disabled HTML in your posts and am notifying wabbit. If you'd like it reinstated, please email her or me.

During wabbit's absence, I will disable HTML for anyone who deliberately distorts the Mote's interface or otherwise uses HTML to interfere with other community members' access to the Mote, other than in the Inferno or Try the Mote.

419. Seguine - 4/6/2000 1:35:52 PM

NOTICE:

I am thinking about linking to this thread a list of public (Hotmail and the like) email addresses for Mote members who wish to have a centralized resource through which they might contact each other easily.

No address would be listed without permission. Only addresses that Mote members explicitly requested to be linked would be included in the list. An "explicit" request would be one made publicly, in this thread. Addresses could be removed from the list in the same manner, or by contacting me (or any future host of this thread) privately.

Responses to this proposal (support for and objections to) will be entertained here for the next 48 hours, or until I make a decision.

420. AceofSpades - 4/6/2000 1:37:07 PM

I think it's a good idea, Seguine.

421. theDiva - 4/6/2000 1:39:08 PM

Yes, it is. Here's mine:

jazzdeev@yahoo.com

422. Indiana Jones - 4/6/2000 1:39:48 PM

I agree. Please add my email: IndianaJones@resourceful.com

423. Adrianne - 4/6/2000 1:42:17 PM

Adrianne3@hotmail.com

424. PincherMartin - 4/6/2000 1:44:35 PM

PincherMartin@yahoo.com

425. 109109 - 4/6/2000 1:45:42 PM

slawyer@hotmail.com

426. Seguine - 4/6/2000 1:48:43 PM

seguine@hotmail.com

427. AceofSpades - 4/6/2000 1:51:33 PM

Kevin_Blackthorn@yahoo.com

Not my real name. A rather embarassing made-up name. I should have just called myself "Flash_SteelyGaze"

428. 109109 - 4/6/2000 1:52:27 PM

Also, and this is just a suggestion Seguine, but on your list, it would be nice to see the city of residence for the person, if they so choose. I'm in Washington, D.C. and I do some traveling. I'd like to know where others are should I be coming their way, and I'd like people to feel free to email me if they are heading into D.C.

And then maybe, Turn-Ons (sunsets, gentlemen, Top Gun) and Turn-offs (rude people, dog sled races, Montel).

429. PsychProf - 4/6/2000 1:53:50 PM

ozzienelson@hotmail.com

430. Dusty - 4/6/2000 1:55:59 PM

Indiana Jones

Good call.

soup messed up the interface in Try the Mote, and did not, despite my request, fix the change.

Lest someone start whining about different rules for different folks, I wouldn't urge suspension generally if someone makes a change in Try the Mote that they cannot fix. However, soup is known to be HTML proficient, and neither attempted to change the settings back, nor asked for help. Still, this would merely be the sign of an asshole if this is all that happened, and I don't support suspensions for "merely" being an asshole. "Try the Mote" is a thread for experimenting, and it would be a close call to suspend someone for experimenting in that thread, even if we were sure it wasn't an accident.

However, once soup learned that the HTML commands would, in fact, mess up our interface, s/he made the changes in another thread, requiring post deletions to fix the problem.

If I were in charge, I might have opted for a warning, but bending over backwards to accommodate adolescents hasn't worked with other trouble-makers, so I support IJ's decision. I'll let wabbit decide on the appropriate length of time.

BTW, I'm making this post because some of the evidence of soup's misdeeds has been erased as part of the recovery procedures, and I don't want others to think that this decision may seem like over kill given the (remaining) evidence.

431. Seguine - 4/6/2000 1:56:00 PM

Yeah, but then someone would probably call you Gash-Bloody Gauze, or Smash Steely Dan, or Hash Mealyworm, or something like that. And you would weep and weep.

432. Seguine - 4/6/2000 2:02:33 PM

Sorry so sluggish of me, my last should have been directed at Ace's Message # 427.

Niner, I'm slightly leery of providing any extra info in this list. But I'm not extremely averse to it and would be interested in hearing what others have to say about your suggestion.

433. 109109 - 4/6/2000 2:05:27 PM

Seg

Well, the Turn-Ons and Turn-Offs was a joke, though it should be required if anyone posts a centerfold spread with their email.

Bu a list that states

109109 - slawyer@hotmail.com (Washington, D.C.) seems valuable.

And those who want to keep their residence in Fat City a mystery may do so.

434. theDiva - 4/6/2000 2:07:32 PM

does this mean no centerfolds of Niner?

435. AceofSpades - 4/6/2000 2:08:19 PM

If most moties provide a hotmail address, it can't fit on the butterscotch bar.

Ergo, perhaps we should just have a single page containing this information, along with any sorts of biographical information a Motie wants to offer.

436. theDiva - 4/6/2000 2:09:02 PM

We could link it in from the Cafe, too.

437. 109109 - 4/6/2000 2:09:05 PM

Diva

Of course not.

But I'm getting older and older, and the photographers are having a harder and harder time finding panty hose of the correct thickness and hue to present me in my fuzzy, murky, beautiful mush.

438. theDiva - 4/6/2000 2:09:34 PM

Dang.

439. AceofSpades - 4/6/2000 2:10:24 PM

Contact the director of the late-eighties Heart videos. I hear he's good.

440. 109109 - 4/6/2000 2:11:02 PM

Ha ha ha ha ha,

That was use of Cinemascope, Ace, not filter.

441. AceofSpades - 4/6/2000 2:15:47 PM

The Heart videos became increasingly desperate to hide the Fat Wilson Sister's enormous bulk. They began with gel lenses, moved to stretch-lensing (making her head cartoonishly long, but she still looked like a whale), then started shooting her through Venetian blinds, then started filming her hot sister sing the songs that the Fat One had actually sung, the Fat One relegated to a "backup singer" for a song she'd lead-vocaled on.

I was going to make a joke hear -- and suggest more ridiculous ways to hide her girth -- but the truth is funny enough.

442. CalGal - 4/6/2000 2:20:03 PM

On the email list: I suggested that some months ago; Alistair and Jay said no, that it "violated the paradigm". Listing them on the side of a butterscotch bar wasn't suggested, but putting together a page was. It was an extended discussion, and I'll see if I can find it in Suggestions.

I was very surprised at first, but he was fairly adamant. Maybe if it's part of a thread he won't object.

443. AceofSpades - 4/6/2000 2:21:29 PM

"Alistair and Jay said no, that it "violated the paradigm". "

Odd. But then, if a thread host wants to hot-link email in the butterscotch bar, that's his prerogative, I'd think.

Hell -- you provide links to Mote@theMovies. You could sneak in a contact page there.

444. CalGal - 4/6/2000 2:24:44 PM

I thought so too, but I was smacked down. Pissed me off now, although I forget why. I'll see if I can find it.

445. CalGal - 4/6/2000 2:25:15 PM

Um, that would be "Pissed me off then", of course.

446. SpenceMirrlees - 4/6/2000 2:28:55 PM

SpenceMirrlees@hotmail.com

447. AceofSpades - 4/6/2000 2:29:19 PM

What the fuck is "the paradigm"?

I suppose they might feel it would look cliquish to a newcomer-- well, here's all these people with each other's email, so they're all best buds. But then, TT allows it.

I dunno. I really don't get their objection to something so innocuous and standard-issue. And I'd like to know what "The Paradigm" is.

448. 109109 - 4/6/2000 2:31:05 PM

The Paradigm is a secret organization that can get you hot debs and sports cars, but will kill your friend if he reveals any secrets of The Paradigm.

449. Indiana Jones - 4/6/2000 2:33:40 PM

I thought the Paradigm had something to do with a Selznick-Hitchcock collaboration.

450. IrvingSnodgrass - 4/6/2000 2:45:45 PM

I like the idea of adding an optional city of residence. I have always enjoyed meeting Moties on my travels as well (on my recent trip to the USA, I had the pleasure of seeing wabbit, PP, MisunderstoodGenius, Spudboy and 19RBI).

Please add my name:

IrvingSnodgrass@the-fray.com (Denpasar, Bali)

(I've gotta change that e-mail address one of these days)

451. CalGal - 4/6/2000 2:47:31 PM

I'm just saying that Alistair objected mightily, but I can't find the damn posts now. I am sure they were in Suggestions--Pelle might remember the conversation.

I wanted it as a general purpose thing, but also to use when the Mote is down and I need to notify people. I made it clear it was entirely optional. Alistair said no.

452. 109109 - 4/6/2000 2:52:09 PM

Big deal. Alistair, schmalistair.

453. CalGal - 4/6/2000 2:53:20 PM

(shrug)

I just wish to hell you'd all been around when Alistair was running around after my posts telling everyone to please ignore it, that compliance was voluntary (despite my saying the same thing in the post), and saying that it would never be linked into the Mote.

454. 109109 - 4/6/2000 2:54:12 PM

Let go of the past, Obi Wan.

Say it with me.

Alistair.

Schmalistair.

455. Raskolnikov - 4/6/2000 2:56:01 PM

Raskolnikov123@yahoo.com (Twin Cities, MN)

456. 109109 - 4/6/2000 2:57:28 PM

Rask

BTW - I keep expecting this woman to sue in Minneapolis, and she keeps disappointing me, but if and when she does, pick the joint (As long as it isn't J.D. Hoyt's because then I'll end up at Sex World feeding quarters to a woman in a box) and the tab is on my client.

457. CalGal - 4/6/2000 2:59:25 PM

Niner,

Knock it off. I'm saying that Alistair didn't want it, that he had very real objections to it, and that Jay did too. Given that they were objecting in an "official" capacity, it might be worth checking with them again.

I would be delighted if they have changed their minds.

458. Raskolnikov - 4/6/2000 3:02:14 PM

Niner: I still owe you a beer though. Do I still owe the beer if your client pays for it?

Let me know when you are in town. Rock Bottom Brewery would probably be my choice.

459. theDiva - 4/6/2000 3:09:12 PM

Oops, almost forgot

jazzdeev@yahoo.com (Just Outside the Beltway)

460. 109109 - 4/6/2000 3:11:00 PM

Rask

We'll let the client pay for the beer. The whores are on you, and do a little better than the two on "Fargo."

461. Raskolnikov - 4/6/2000 3:16:08 PM

Don't worry. If you don't like Normandale grads, Lowthian beauty college isn't too far away.

462. CalGal - 4/6/2000 3:18:17 PM

Well, I found the posts--copied the text and then forgot to make a note of the numbers. They're in Suggestions, back around 2/2.

I forgot that Alistair's vehement objection was to the distribution list. HIs objection to the email address did indeed say that it violated the paradigm, but it wasn't strong. Jay's was stronger. His agreement with me in this post sounds odd, given that I'd actually posted in favor of a public email list, but he is referring to the limits I put on it (no expectation of response, etc.).

Alistair: Do other people have strong opinions on Pelle's proposal about making one's e-mail address publicly available?

I realize that this is a matter of individual choice, but I also want to point out that it is a mechanism that will tend to change the nature of the site. The Mote is different from the vast majority of other discussion sites in that one is not obliged to publish one's e-mail address. If a significant number of people chose to publish theirs here, my fear is that would lead to fragmentation of the public space that constitutes the Mote. For the most part, things are pretty well above-board here, what you see is what you get. I think we should be wary of changing that paradigm.

Jay: As I think about it more, I think it would be a bad idea to for the Mote to publish email addresses. I think CG's comments are on the mark.

If individuals want to publish them, they can do so in posts.

463. Seguine - 4/6/2000 3:30:57 PM

Ace, a linked page was what I had in mind. Not a big long list in the butterscotch bar.

My only reservation about providing any real-life info (such as states of residence) is that this could conceivably be used against people in some way by pests and stalkers. But if folks provided personal profile material (on themselves, obviously) with the understanding that the Mote is not responsible for any misuse once it's published, then we could perhaps go further still and permit tag lines, brief manifestos, etc.

I would require technical assistance with a page of this kind, though. And I presume it would have to be hosted by someone, or set up in the Mote's bowels somewhere.

464. theDiva - 4/6/2000 3:32:06 PM

I'd get a manifesto? Cool!

465. CalGal - 4/6/2000 3:32:43 PM

Seguine,

As I said, I was going to do this some months ago, were it not for Alistair's objections. If everyone thinks it's a good idea, I'd be happy to put the page together as part of the Mote's "bowels".

The main problem is maintenance--I'll see if there's a way to automate it.

466. PelleNilsson - 4/6/2000 4:39:32 PM

Ace - Message # 435

Ergo, perhaps we should just have a single page containing this information, along with any sorts of biographical information a Motie wants to offer.

Yes, I too have thought along this line. There are, for example, quite a few Moties who have home pages. Some are listed in the Café but far from all.

pelle.o.nilsson@telia.com

467. PelleNilsson - 4/6/2000 4:50:56 PM

CalGal - Message # 442

I vaguely remember that discussion. and I think the context was a bit different. But what we have here is that one Motie suggested it would be useful to have an address list, and a lot of other Moties thought it was a good idea and freely published theirs. So the Paradigm is out of the loop on this one.

468. CalGal - 4/6/2000 4:54:08 PM

Pelle,

There were two discussions going on--one on notification during outages, one on a public email list. The quotes I posted were on the latter. Participation in the list was to be entirely optional, and they both objected, in much the same manner as Seguine intends (in fact, it was you who made the suggestion).

It's fine with me if we have it--I just wanted to make sure that it was known they objected.

469. PelleNilsson - 4/6/2000 4:57:46 PM

Ace

What the fuck is "the paradigm"?

"Paradigm" is one of the most misused words of the late 20th century. It was coined by Thomas S. Kuhn in his The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, 1962 but has been appropriated to give credence to all kind of fudgy thought.

473. TabouliJones - 4/6/2000 5:02:31 PM

scratchraster@yahoo.com (Toronto,Canada)

475. Dantheman - 4/6/2000 5:09:53 PM

And here I thought a paradigm was 20 cents. (g)

479. PelleNilsson - 4/6/2000 5:23:12 PM

CalGal

I remember the discussion. But I think that now those arguments are moot. Seguine made a suggestion. A lot of, let's say, prominent Moties responded positively. Presumably Seguine will act on it. The matter is settled, Paradigm or no Paradigm. Now we are taliking practicalities. How best to achieve this thing?

480. Seguine - 4/6/2000 7:23:16 PM

"If everyone thinks it's a good idea, I'd be happy to put the page together as part of the Mote's "bowels"."

Good. Assuming we are not overruled by Alistair or Jay (whom we've yet to hear from and who may, I suppose, have legitimate concerns no one here has pointed out), I'd like to see it organized in the following way:

1. Single link in butterscotch bar here (which I will post, obviously, when there's a destination site to link to); leads to

2. A page of Mote members' Mote IDs in alphabetical order, each of which either is not hyperlinked or is hyperlinked to

3. An email address, and possibly

4. Other limited personal material or remarks.

"The main problem is maintenance--I'll see if there's a way to automate it."

Automation would be best. Can Alistair assist?

481. Candide - 4/6/2000 7:32:53 PM

Seguine

Alistair is driving across great tracts of Australia at the moment. I may be meeting with him in about a week.

482. Uzmakk - 4/6/2000 7:33:23 PM

Seguine:
Is this where I would announce the opening of Adventure Beyond Cycling -- National and international divisions?

483. Seguine - 4/6/2000 7:33:47 PM

Also: any concerns Alistair or Jay may have about liability issues may perhaps be addressed by requiring that email addresses published in the List be public, not private ones. That is, contrary to rules designed to confirm identity, only public addresses would be permissible. No addresses issued from ISPs would be stored by the Mote in the Members' Email List.

However, such a restriction might make it a little tough to reach people. I bet most of us don't check our Hotmail (etc.) accounts very frequently.

On the other hand, the Notices and Queries thread has a function many people freely utilize already: notifying others that mail is on the way. No reason it couldn't be used to let a recipient of email know he should check his public account.

484. Seguine - 4/6/2000 7:36:25 PM

Uzmakk,

I guess so.

486. Seguine - 4/6/2000 7:39:28 PM

Candide,

It looks as though Alistair has left his territory to the depredations of Vandals.

Oh well. You may have his livestock. I will take the software.

487. Uzmakk - 4/6/2000 7:48:36 PM

Well then, I shall have to come up with something clever.

488. arkymalarky - 4/6/2000 8:23:35 PM

amalarky@yahoo.com (Centrally Located--In the Middle of Nowhere)

489. SpenceMirrlees - 4/6/2000 9:01:21 PM

SpenceMirrlees@hotmail.com (Los Angeles, CA)

490. Seguine - 4/6/2000 9:04:54 PM

Posts 470-472, 474, 476-478, and 485 have been moved to the Slow Thread. However, I fucked up and initially forgot Ace's 470, which therefore appears at the end of the conversation instead of the beginning.

Apologies.

491. IrvingSnodgrass - 4/6/2000 9:45:33 PM

I'll be seeing Alistair in 8 days, and I'll let him know what is going on in his absence, though I honestly don't expect he'll squawk too much.

The page should just be a list of Mote addresses provided voluntarily, and should not include the names of those who don't provide addresses. There are lurkers and one-time posters whose presence or absence on a list might be problematical.

492. Seguine - 4/6/2000 11:45:09 PM

Grass,

I do see your point about a comprehensive list. The address list should contain only those IDs requested for inclusion, then.

If public email addresses (and not manifestos and bra sizes) are all that is to be provided, a simple alphabetical directory of IDs with addresses should suffice. (I could simply create one myself and post it here, with a link to the post in the butterscotch bar.) If much extra info is to be allowed, more page space will have to be allotted, and in such a way as to avoid the thing being cumbersome.

Do people want room for taglines and manifestos and all that? And does CalGal want to be bothered with it at the moment (or in 8 days)?

493. IrvingSnodgrass - 4/7/2000 12:12:48 AM

I vote nay on additional information... manifestos, taglines, etc. That's what people have home pages for. I think a simple alphabetical listing with e-mail addresses and an optional location is enough. The only other thing which could be helpful is an optional link to a home page.

494. Seguine - 4/7/2000 9:46:37 AM

I don't object to the additional info. Table Talk provides such an option; the sky doesn't seem to have fallen.

It's superfluous, perhaps. OTOH, newcomers could find out a little bit about anyone who chose to make such info (or rantings) available. Also, not everyone has a homepage, or one they want connectewd in any way with an ID in the Mote.

495. Indiana Jones - 4/7/2000 9:57:09 AM

Seguine: I would give you a word of advice unless this process is automated. The more info you take responsibility for, the more time-consuming it will be for you. The Mote Cast is rather simple, and no one has asked for any changes in a long time, but it was hectic at the beginning. And this kind of stuff I think people may ask for changes often.

496. Seguine - 4/7/2000 10:46:49 AM

"And this kind of stuff I think people may ask for changes often."

You're right, but I'm not volunteering to man a database with that much stuff in it. No one else should have to either. If it can't be automated, it's a dead letter.

A simple directory is another matter, and in fact I've decided to create one in this thread, as described in the second paragraph of Message # 492. If Diva wants to link it to the Cafe (or copy it to the Cafe, or whatever), that's fine.

But I'll wait a couple more days before doing the first iteration of it so that everyone who wants to be listed has a chance to make their requests.

Meanwhile, if CalGal wishes to pursue a more complex option (something involving bells and whistles of the sort I've suggested) with Alistair/Jay, she can do that. I would support it.

Any debate about the more complex option should probably continue in Suggestions, but should be announced here so everyone is aware of it and has a chance to weigh in.

497. Uzmakk - 4/7/2000 1:49:40 PM

Places I Would Like to Meet Moties this Summer

The Dogfish Head Brewery, Lewes DE, Keuka Lake, Fingerlake region, NYMontrealLongwood Gardens , PaJersey Shore from Atlantic City SouthPlano, TX

502. CalGal - 4/7/2000 3:05:26 PM

toy check

503. CalGal - 4/7/2000 3:06:16 PM

Uz, must you use SIX italic tags?

504. Seguine - 4/7/2000 3:08:29 PM

Uzmakk's and my attempts to fix his toy surfeit (498-501) have been deleted.

505. Seguine - 4/7/2000 3:10:58 PM

CalGal, you know Uzmakk. An all-out guy like him wants his italics to really lean hard.

506. Uzmakk - 4/7/2000 3:11:26 PM

I forgot the HTML instructions, Cal. I was trying to make a list. Sorry.

507. JudithAtHome - 4/7/2000 3:50:08 PM

Are we listing our e-mail addresses somewhere? JudithAtHome@mailcity.com

510. Seguine - 4/7/2000 7:18:06 PM

No fighting in this thread. Msgs 508 and 509 deleted.

511. 109109 - 4/9/2000 8:17:21 PM

Announcement

I was looking at my moniker - 109109. I really don't like it anymore, and aesthetically, it is ugly and impersonal. "Niner" was okay, but I still feel like I'm in a Huxley book. So, this weekend, I tried out some new names, and settled upon my new moniker.

Effective tomorrow, I will be posting as

Jack Vincennes.

Thank you for your time.

512. CalGal - 4/9/2000 8:41:57 PM

Speaking as the person who dubbed you "Niner" as a way around that absurd moniker that reflects the limitations of a guy who, when faced with the need for a login name, thinks, "Hmm. Well, there's my birthday. I'll use that.", I can only say that "Jack Vincennes" seems a bit Spacey.

But I'm sure Cellar will be proud.

513. Indiana Jones - 4/9/2000 8:47:15 PM

Niner: What do you prefer to be called now? Is Niner okay, or would you rather everyone forget your old name?

514. EricCartman - 4/10/2000 2:06:24 AM

Jack:

Do you mind if I just call you "Hoke"?

515. RosettaStone - 4/10/2000 8:49:57 AM

I'm pretty sure "Jack" did this because I started calling .Niner.

Yes, I'm sure.

532. Jack Vincennes - 4/10/2000 10:29:52 AM

Indy

I'd prefer to be called Jack henceforth.

Or Vince.

Or Ice-T.

540. Indiana Jones - 4/10/2000 10:43:50 AM

Jack by itself is kinda--how to put this tactfully?--ordinary. I was going to go for Jocko, but Vince isn't too bad.

If Jack's what you want, though, I'll give it a try.

541. Seguine - 4/10/2000 12:10:12 PM

516-531 and 533-539 sent to Inferno

542. Jack Vincennes - 4/10/2000 12:57:58 PM

Announcement.

In following Seg's lead on keeping a thread clean, I am regularly deleting some posts. I dig off-topic banter, and the deletion is not to be confused with a dim view of same. But after the fun, when I'm around, I try and keep the thread on the topic of Politics for those who may want to come in and discuss same, only to find strange and foreign patter for which there is no easy entree.

I also find it a bit of a downer to see "I have deleted posts ____" with regularity.

That is all.

543. CalGal - 4/10/2000 1:01:10 PM

Niner--it would be nice to move them to the Inferno, rather than delete them.

544. Jack Vincennes - 4/10/2000 1:04:46 PM

Cal

Inferno is for fighting.

Wabbit

At your leisure, could you change the hosts for Politics to Arky and Jack Vincennes.

Gracias.

548. CalGal - 4/10/2000 1:12:37 PM

No, it is not for fighting. It is for off-topic banter. For that matter, you could move it to the Cafe.

The point is, you can do things other than delete.

551. Dusty - 4/10/2000 1:18:29 PM

Jack Vincennes

In the spirit of keeping a record, yet letting newcomers focus on the on-topic material, what would you think about converting off-topic posts to gray or light grey? I realize you can't do this, but perhaps we could talk Alistair into making it an option for thread hosts.

As an example, your post earlier would look like this:

544. Jack Vincennes - 4/10/00 1:04:46 PM
Cal

Inferno is for fighting.

Wabbit

At your leisure, could you change the hosts for Politics to Arky and Jack Vincennes.

Gracias.

552. Jack Vincennes - 4/10/2000 1:19:23 PM

Dusty

Too weird, too spooky, too much work, and certainly not inviting to newcomers.

But pretty cool looking.

553. SpenceMirrlees - 4/10/2000 1:20:37 PM

Seguine, is it okay to have chitchat in this thread as long as you participate in it, such as the exchange on smoking?

554. CalGal - 4/10/2000 1:20:40 PM

Well, moving posts is what is supposed to happen for stuff that isn't offensive and is just off-topic. I agree that the grey stuff is spooky and offputting--and it'd be impossible to implement.

If you don't know how to move posts, Niner, just say so.

555. Jack Vincennes - 4/10/2000 1:21:43 PM

Too much work.

556. AceofSpades - 4/10/2000 1:22:53 PM

We can all agree to write in light grey when we're off topic.

557. Dusty - 4/10/2000 1:23:40 PM

We are dangerously close (probably over the line) to subject that belong in Suggestions.

558. Jack Vincennes - 4/10/2000 1:23:52 PM

Ace

If people are uniform, great idea.

559. Jack Vincennes - 4/10/2000 1:24:20 PM

Dusty

Agreed. Repair there.

560. CalGal - 4/10/2000 1:29:20 PM

Too much work.


It is no more work than deleting them.

561. AceofSpades - 4/10/2000 1:30:31 PM

I don't think we *should* do this. I'm just saying we *can.*

Obviously the thread host cannot change the color of every off-topic host. But individual posters can.

I, personally, don't mind "off topic" posts. There are some very boring/repetitive on-topic posts that I don't want to read; I can tell if something is personal/off-topic or on-topic/boring in two or three words. I really don't crave a color-code regarding this.

I'm just saying: We *could*.

562. RosettaStone - 4/10/2000 1:34:47 PM

Who cares?

563. Seguine - 4/10/2000 1:38:21 PM

545-547 and 549-550 deleted

Not all mortally beaten horses are worth transferring to the Inferno.


Spence,

One of my hopes was that this thread might be used to start conversations that would later move elsewhere. I've tried to be consistent about moving chatty exchanges, but most die off very quickly as soon as they're transferred.

This time, I decided to see how long a friendly exchange would persist if I didn't move it. It didn't last long, despite the signal my participation should have sent.

I'm building up to a provisional (negative) opinion about the potential for success of the "seedbed" notion. Meanwhile, assume I'll move chat that has absolutely nothing to do with any notice or query posted here, and that I will delete or move flames and kvetching to their appropriate venues.

564. Seguine - 4/10/2000 1:48:52 PM

Then again, perhaps if the Greying of Off-Topic Posts conversation moves of its own accord over to Suggestions I'll feel a kind of glowing, warm hope for the future of motekind.

565. Seguine - 4/10/2000 1:50:07 PM

Folks: once again, you should feel free to copy and re-post exchanges into threads where you'd like to continue them.

566. Seguine - 4/11/2000 2:42:51 PM

Here is the Public Email List. Anyone I missed, or who wishes to be added to the list, should post a note to me in this thread.

Note: I don't plan to include any personal info (e.g., state or country of residence) in the list just yet. If you want to announce that data anyway, you're welcome to do it in this thread.


Ace of Spades
Kevin_Blackthorn@yahoo.com

Adrianne
Adrianne3@hotmail.com

Arkymalarky
amalarky@yahoo.com

Diva
jazzdeev@yahoo.com

Indiana Jones
IndianaJones@resourceful.com

Irving Snodgrass
IrvingSnodgrass@the-fray.com

Jack Vincennes
slawyer@hotmail.com

Judith At Home
JudithAtHome@mailcity.com

Pelle Nilsson
pelle.o.nilsson@telia.com

Pincher Martin
PincherMartin@yahoo.com

Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov123@yahoo.com

Seguine
seguine@hotmail.com

Spence Mirrlees
SpenceMirrlees@hotmail.com

Tabouli Jones
scratchraster@yahoo.com

567. CalGal - 4/11/2000 2:48:39 PM

Seguine,

Are you going to create a page? If not, I'll be happy to build one. Or are you just going to publish new posts and provide a link to the post?

I realize I forgot to give you my email address.

the_calgal@yahoo.com

568. Seguine - 4/11/2000 2:57:20 PM

CG, I decided to wait (see previous posts) until Alistair had a chance to be consulted about all this before doing anything very elaborate. If he and Jay have no persistent objection, and if you or one of them can devise an automated means of keeping this list, then I'm for it.

Because we're sort of in limbo, I don't know whether it would be worth your while to do a page at this point. Why don't we wait and see how long the list gets, what Alistair says about a fancier manifesto-infrested project, etc.? For the time being, this collection of under 20 addresses can sit here in a message, I think.

569. Seguine - 4/11/2000 2:58:13 PM

infrested=infested

570. CalGal - 4/11/2000 2:58:41 PM

Yes, with a link in the butterscotch bar, which I see you've provided. Works for me.

571. Indiana Jones - 4/11/2000 4:15:50 PM

soupisgoodfood's account has been temporarily disabled for repeatedly revealing personal information in violation of the RoE, even after a warning by wabbit. I will notify wabbit of this immediately, but have taken the action now because I believed the release of a motier's name was imminent.

572. CalGal - 4/11/2000 4:16:49 PM

Indy,

I've decided I'm ridiculously fond of you.

573. AceofSpades - 4/11/2000 4:18:58 PM

Good call, Indy.

574. RosettaStone - 4/11/2000 4:27:01 PM

It should be permanent and you should do the same thing to CharlieL.

575. CalGal - 4/11/2000 4:28:21 PM

You know, Indy, as long as you have an itchy trigger finger....

576. PelleNilsson - 4/11/2000 4:28:36 PM

Supported.

577. Indiana Jones - 4/11/2000 4:41:44 PM

I appreciate the words of support, CalGal, Ace, and Pelle. However, the stress of leadership and crushing the frequent parliamentary plots has proved too great for my "heart condition."

I will be vacationing at my dacha on the Black Sea for the next few days with my Danish "nurse" Ingrid.

578. PsychProf - 4/11/2000 5:11:27 PM

ozzienelson@hotmail.com

579. Seguine - 4/11/2000 9:55:15 PM

CG, PP, I'll add you guys (and any others) to an ammended list in a day or two.

580. ChristiPeters - 4/12/2000 11:09:27 AM

christipeters@hotmail.com

584. Seguine - 4/12/2000 5:36:53 PM

Rosetta, your post 581 and 582 about NATO peacekeepers is better suited to the Current Events thread, which is where they and the commentary by Pelle have been relocated.

585. EricCartman - 4/12/2000 8:30:32 PM

ecartman_61@hotmail.com

586. phillipdavid - 4/15/2000 11:39:24 AM

phildavid@hotmail.com

587. joezan - 4/15/2000 11:49:10 AM

joezan1@hotmail.com

588. Seguine - 4/15/2000 5:28:09 PM

Updated Members' Public Email List


Ace of Spades
Kevin_Blackthorn@yahoo.com

Adrianne
Adrianne3@hotmail.com

Arkymalarky
amalarky@yahoo.com

CalGal
the_calgal@yahoo.com

ChristiPeters
christipeters@hotmail.com

Diva
jazzdeev@yahoo.com

EricCartman
ecartman_61@hotmail.com

Indiana Jones
IndianaJones@resourceful.com

Irving Snodgrass
IrvingSnodgrass@the-fray.com

Jack Vincennes
slawyer@hotmail.com

Joezan
joezan1@hotmail.com

Judith At Home
JudithAtHome@mailcity.com

Pelle Nilsson
pelle.o.nilsson@telia.com

Pincher Martin
PincherMartin@yahoo.com

Phillipdavid
phildavid@hotmail.com

PsychProf
ozzienelson@hotmail.com

Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov123@yahoo.com

Seguine
seguine@hotmail.com

Spence Mirrlees
SpenceMirrlees@hotmail.com

Tabouli Jones
scratchraster@yahoo.com

589. stostosto - 4/15/2000 5:39:36 PM

sto@privat.dk

590. Seguine - 4/15/2000 6:53:44 PM

I wonder, should we start a gift registry in this space?

591. PelleNilsson - 4/15/2000 6:55:53 PM

What is a gift registry?

592. theDiva - 4/15/2000 8:54:08 PM

if one is engaged to be married, one registers one's preferences for china, crystal, silver, etc. at a particular merchant in order to facilitate the purchase of wedding gifts. It is a courtesy to those who would like to assist the couple in setting up their home, but have no idea as to the preferences of the couple.

593. Seguine - 4/15/2000 9:34:11 PM

Yes, and gift registries are also employed by people having babies. I realize that the recent spate of Mote offspring suggests there will now be a lull in that department, but you never know. A guy as handsome as Alistair may be kept busy on many levels.

594. Seguine - 4/15/2000 9:38:26 PM

Naturally, I mention Alistair as a for-instance, one of any number of heart-stoppingly handsome Mote males.

595. theDiva - 4/15/2000 9:43:01 PM

dishy males are rather thick on the ground around here, no?

596. Indiana Jones - 4/15/2000 10:19:02 PM

Diva: That's just the shavings left over from Niner.

597. Seguine - 4/17/2000 8:51:54 AM

Department of Hilarious Anthropomorphizing, Foreign Language Division

598. stostosto - 4/17/2000 9:03:42 AM

...a Pseudo- ... what?

Pseudotropheus Zebra ( Metangula )
1 male, 3 females
This fish is my king of the tank. The male is a beautiful peach pink like color. It isn't really aggresive, but if someone messes with him they wil lose. He owns about 20% of the tank to himself. And has dug a huge pit where gravel use to lay. He has breed many times and I have tried to mix him with other color morphs of his own species. He has quite a big appetite and loves to mess round with my catfish. he only shows aggression to the fish he doesn't like.

---
That Pseudo sounds quite exceptable.

599. theDiva - 4/17/2000 9:06:51 AM

"He also has a large appetite and hates everyone's guts. No matter who the fish is he begins to get in a territorial fighting frenzy!"

Good God, we're all fish in this guy's tank.

600. JudithAtHome - 4/17/2000 10:43:50 AM

Okay, did webfeet have her baby? I can't find an announcement anywhere and yet, people are congratulating her left and right...

601. theDiva - 4/17/2000 10:44:31 AM

webby had a 9 pound baby boy, bless her heart.

And has anyone heard from Seamus or Angel-Five recently?

602. Seguine - 4/17/2000 12:42:30 PM

Sto, you think that's exceptable, you should see my Pseudotropheus demasoni. And lets's not even discuss my latest acquisition, a Pseudotropheus elongatus (one colloquially known as a "jewel spot elongatus").

Diva, re Message # 599, yes. Here's Andres's advice to thread hosts:

"...like I said its up to oneself on how he wants his fish tank."

And this is what should be done to accomodate newbies:

"To introduce a new comer to the tank after the tank is been established. You should leave the bag with the fish inside for about 15 minutes. Then take out all the rocks out before you but the fish in. this will neutralize the fish by not giving them a territory to defend. After this feed them and turn off the light! Then the next day you put back all the rocks. Giving him a chance to retrieve a territory and defend himself from other fish."

[The Mote would be so much better a place if only our rocks were removed, we were all given a good meal and a nap, and newbies had to stay in a protective bag for a full 15 minutes before being released among us.]

Finally, this description of the mating ritual was superbly realistic:

"After the male throbbs in front of the female for a while. She either excepts his dance or ignores him when the male is ignored, she is chased ferociously away from the territory! If she excepts she is led to a flat surface where the male begins to shiver."

603. Seguine - 4/17/2000 12:54:49 PM

My sister gave me a gift of some really neat, spicy-smelling soap. The company that makes it is located in England and, apparently, Canada. Here's the website:

Lush

I'm afraid the names of the products are not very helpful in determining what they might smell like. (Lush's marketing czar is probably from Santa Cruz, CA.) However, I can warn that the "Flying Saucers" involves patchouli.

604. theDiva - 4/17/2000 1:11:30 PM

I am taking this advice to my co-hosts. We will bag up newbies and let the flap around in the Cafe for a bit. Excellent.

605. Seguine - 4/17/2000 1:19:09 PM

Judith, for you, reposted here from the Cafe:

15414. webfeet -4/14/00 3:16:21 PM
Hi everyone

I have been wanting to say a hello but haven't had the time. I ahve a big baby sprawled actoss my lap and am typign with one hand. This should give an idea of what my day to day is like. Please forgive this exhausted mother for straying away too long, i've thought of all of you and look forward to hanging out here more, possibly when i return to work, which should be in 1 week.

I wanted to write a detailed labotr story-something that would convey how HUGE all of this is, but the facts simply are: 9 lbs, 1 ounce. No complications, just 1 little stitch. I popped the bunny out in ten minutes after i dilated. They called me a Star. It was pretty fabulous.

I have a nanny coming for an itnerview now, time's up/The last one i interviewed turned to me suddenly in the middle of conversation and said. "Im nosy: how old are you?"

Maybe it was a sensitive subject..im turning 30 in like 3 weeks..maube it was the fact that tippy-top on the list of things Nanneis should never say in interviews next to "I hate babies" is "Im Nosy."

Do I really want you, lady, poking through my underwear drawers in between commercial breaks of All my Children?

No, I dont want to hear those words. Next.

606. Seguine - 4/18/2000 8:15:38 PM

I wonder if this thread could function just as well as a subthread of the Cafe.

Would people check in here less frequently?

607. Seguine - 4/18/2000 8:49:15 PM

Notice: Thanks to proponents of Chilean wine. I have now tried three late-model cabernets and am a convert, praise be to grape.

608. CalGal - 4/18/2000 9:39:04 PM

Until I can figure out a way to display sub-thread time/date/user last posted info, I don't think N&Q would do well as a subthread. But I would like to have subthreads listed on the front page, below their "parent" thread. If that ever becomes the case, I think it could become a subthread without any impact on its effectiveness (and it does quite well).

I have been very busy for the last month plus, and haven't had any time to revisit the user interface. Hopefully, I'll get to it while I'm on vacation.

609. Indiana Jones - 4/20/2000 11:03:12 AM

Per my earlier query about Mensa: No Motier has revealed a membership in this organization, so either we have no Mensa members or no one wants to admit the affiliation. One more try...

If any Motier is a member of Mensa, please email me at IndianaJones@resourceful.com. I have a (small) favor to ask. Thanks.

610. JudithAtHome - 4/20/2000 11:36:34 AM

Anyone who is in or around North Texas on Saturday, please consider yourselves invited to join our Mini-Mote Texas Get-together. Let either ChristinO or me know by Friday evening by sending an e-mail to either one of us.

611. JayAckroyd - 4/21/2000 1:06:37 PM

I'm sorry I missed the discussion on email listing.

I've been lurking pretty regularly but haven't been looking at the N&Q section.

I don't have an objection to compiling email addresses here, and posting a link in the butterscotch bar. Note that the compiler is gonna have to keep them current.

The previous discussion CalGal is referring to was in the context of using the email addresses stored on the server as the source. I said, at the time, that people can post addresses if they want to. Those addresses won't generally be the same as the one on the database. Moreover, if they are limited to public addresses, there's no risk of unending email harrassment--one just kills that mail account if it happens.

I know the issue is moot; Seguine is doing it anyway. But I didn't want folks to think I objected to the collection and posting of email addresses.

612. Seguine - 4/21/2000 3:50:53 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Jay.

The public email list has been updated once so far. I'll update it periodically as needed.

613. JayAckroyd - 4/21/2000 5:21:59 PM

You can add me, if you'd like, jayac@dbsinyc.com, but that address may violate a rule that says we should only use public addresses. I don't have any public addresses.

614. JayAckroyd - 4/21/2000 5:23:24 PM

And you might want to look at the link. It includes a buncha posts as well as the email addresses.

615. CalGal - 4/21/2000 5:40:57 PM

BTW, I got an email spew from an outraged and angry TT user the other day, reminding me yet again how much I dislike their requirement that we put an email address on all of our posts. The impulse driveby potshot is so much easier when all you have to do is click on a link to get someone's email.

Even more bizarre, it turns out that TT's rationale for requiring the email is that people are more prone to be abusive in email, off their boards. Posters can be unpleasant in private and still keep their "polite" image intact. Likewise, TT administrators don't' have to care what people say in email. So the policy is, if you want to shit all over someone, do it to the email address we have demanded that everyone provide. Leave us out of it.

Not that this would ever happen here, but newbies should know that they never have to post an email address, or respond to someone who they don't wish to respond to.

616. Indiana Jones - 4/21/2000 6:03:12 PM

TT's "reasoning" in the email matter sounds like something you'd get from a government clerk. They want everyone to have a public email address--though it's not necessary you ever check it--because getting private email that violates community standards helps build a better community.

So the sysop must spend time and effort making sure a poster's email address actually works (i.e., receives mail), though it's totally unnecessary that the mail ever reach the intended recipient.

????

617. pseudoerasmus - 4/21/2000 6:09:58 PM

In the past four years of participating in three different on-line fora (Fray/Mote, Suite101, TT's International folder) I have received more insane, abusive, infatuated, vindictive and/or downright bizarre emails than I can count. Most of those have not been from the Fray/Mote, however, because here my email address was not displayed (except when I stupidly posted it myself). I've even had strange people discovering my telephone number somehow and calling me out of the blue.

618. CalGal - 4/21/2000 6:16:32 PM

Spooky.

It's emails like the one I got--and your mention of getting (brrr) phone calls--that makes me keep my name as far offline as possible.

619. Seguine - 4/22/2000 12:57:59 PM

Jay, the link is simply a connection to a "compilation" post I make in this thread.

620. Seguine - 4/22/2000 1:05:27 PM

Jay, also, your mail address does violate the proposed rule. Of course it doesn't matter to me, and I know your lack of concern about privacy. But I would like Alistair to OK a host compiling lists of non-public addresses, just as a matter of policy (as it could conceivably address liability issues), before I add your business address to the list.

I meant to ask before, by the way: Pelle, is your address private? I assumed it wasn't, but I would like you to confirm now that it either is not an ISP address/work address that might make you vulnerable to harassment; or that you, like Jay, wish to have a "private" address listed here.

621. joezan - 4/22/2000 1:13:31 PM

I post to a small, local message board - not unusual at all to run into people you know. There, as at TT, you must provide a non-web-based e-mail address, which is linked from your moniker. You must also post under your real name, although we all know that's impossible to enforce. Still, as far as I can tell, most everyone does.

In their Rules, it states simply that the reason for this is that they want nice, civil discussions, and people are more likely to act civilly when they are identifiable. I don't have a problem with that.

But if they presented themselves as a place where just about anything goes, as TT does, I would definitely have a problem with it. There are probably ten discussions going on at TT right now that I would enjoy taking part in. But I won't, exactly because the loonies would sooner or later start sending me crap like Cal and Pseudo get.

622. JayAckroyd - 4/22/2000 1:33:55 PM

620

Fine with me, either way.

623. PelleNilsson - 4/23/2000 1:28:30 PM

Seguine Message # 620

Like Jay and a few others I post under my real name and use my "real" e-mail. I have published it many times here to no ill effects so I don't see any problem.

624. Seguine - 4/23/2000 3:48:07 PM

I understand, Pelle, and thanks for letting me know, but I wish you hadn't listed your "real" address when we were explicitly discussing listing only public ones in this little directory.

Your post above should reassure anyone who wants to quarrel about the appropriateness of that, however: the responsibility for it is squarely on you.

Unless I hear otherwise from Absent Alistair, I'll leave Pelle's private address in situ and will add Jay's to the list in the next update.

625. Seguine - 4/23/2000 3:54:41 PM

NOTICE TO LINGUISTS with info about Polynesian languages:

QUERY in Language thread

626. marshame - 4/24/2000 2:13:18 PM

Judith, well here I am. Now what do I do??

627. Webfeet - 4/24/2000 2:52:10 PM

Seguine

2 Things: Lush and Chilean wine

I cannot believe you found their website! It's too too uncanny-- when I saw the link, I gasped. I had forgotten all about them! Lush makes the most exquisite smelling rosemary clay/pine mud masks I have ever tried. That statement should carry some weight because I am a beauty-product junkie, a reformed one these days, yet nevertheless, I know my stuff. I first discovered Lush several years ago in London--I think it's on King's Road? And I went bananas. I scooped up little pots of this and that in little plastic containers, similar to the kind you put coleslaw or potato salad in at the supermarket, and I thought it's like a deli of beauty products! What a concept! All natural, all perishable, but they work. And what magic!
I tried to track them down in the US, before the dot.com business took off, and couldn't find them. Until now. Many many mercies.

Chilean wine-- we were 'forced' to drink Chilean wine as our liquor store in this unglamorous Queens neighborhood, run by a gaunt, chainsmoking Vietnamese, offers a scary and arbitrarily priced selection of everything else. French wines worth zip in gay paree are stacked in a barrel with Very Good! written on cardboard in black magic marker priced at 20 bucks. (i know, I know i have to get out of Queens. Frenchcat just got a job and things are looking up) After getting swindled one too many tines, we began to experiment and discovered a chilean wine called 'Carmen.' It is spicy, warm and goes with just about everything. It;s meatier than a beaujolais but quite light over all. It would be great on a drunken picnic in October.

628. Webfeet - 4/24/2000 2:53:28 PM

BTW Seguine--Thanks for reposting my message-- To ALL the Fraygrant/Moties I've Loved Before, thank you all for your kind wishes. I haven't been in here to0 often because of my big, fat, kissable baby,-just popping in and out and haven't really had a dialgue unfortunately-- but now that I am at work, I can check in more often. You all are really so much fun-- and Im so glad this forum still exists as a way of keeping in touch.

Judith--Im sorry I never sent you that blackhead extractor. (What's that nice word for blackhead ? I forgot it. It starts with a C)Believe me, it was for your own good.

629. JudithAtHome - 4/24/2000 3:08:23 PM

webbie:

That's okay...I'd probably be scarred for life if I'd gotten it! (I think that word is comedogen...something something?)

Marshame:

There is a click-on list of public e-mails near the top of the Butterscotch bar on the right of your screen.

630. marshame - 4/24/2000 3:09:38 PM

JaH
I figured it out and sent you a note about 45 minutes ago.

631. ScottLoar - 4/24/2000 7:49:10 PM

Im sorry I never sent you that blackhead extractor. (What's that nice word for blackhead ? I forgot it. It starts with a C)

Carbuncle? No, I guess not.

632. ranheim - 4/24/2000 9:07:29 PM

its comedome

633. ranheim - 4/24/2000 9:09:00 PM

I haven't been hear for months.

Is this the right forum to ask for a recipe for home made Pastrami?

If not, direct me to the right place.

634. robertjayb - 4/24/2000 9:12:12 PM

.
The doctor is back!

Bring out your ill! Make lists of your symptoms!

635. DanDillon - 4/24/2000 9:16:46 PM

ranheim Message # 633,
Try Home & Garden. This thread is intended/reserved for general informational bulletins (notices) and questions (queries). Or at least that was its original intended purpose.

636. Seguine - 4/25/2000 1:57:17 AM

Ranheim, Dillon is correct, Home and Garden is where you should go.

However, this thread is certainly the thread in which to inquire whether this thread is the thread in which to inquire about pastrami.

637. SpenceMirrlees - 4/25/2000 2:35:10 PM

here's a query:

When this place was getting off the ground, contributions were solicited in the typical amount, I believe, of $10, to be sent to JJBiener.

I know that at least some contributions were sent; what's happening with that money? Just curious.

638. theDiva - 4/25/2000 4:23:14 PM

Banks

My child, visiting her father this week, has just called me to extol the virtues of Urbanfetch. 'Link's Revenge For GameBoy Color' and a bag of chocolate chip cookies in under an hour.

639. marjoribanks - 4/27/2000 12:01:50 PM

Cool, Diva.

----

Now, because I don't want to pollute Ilya's thread further - let m announce that salman Rushdie is in love with a hottie and is moving to NY to be with her. A jacket photo of thecover of her recent book is reproduced below:

640. marjoribanks - 4/27/2000 12:02:15 PM

Any number of cheap puns can be made about the title, of course.

641. marjoribanks - 4/27/2000 12:11:52 PM

Notice: In the last two days, Pseuder has taken links I've placed here and posted them with blinding speed in TT (sans acknowledgement). I wish he'd at least comment about these links before purloining them.

642. pseudoerasmus - 4/27/2000 12:15:45 PM

Don't get too egocentric, marzipranks; I post links from TT here and I post links from the Mote in TT. Of the dozen Mote links in TT, only two have been yours.

643. marjoribanks - 4/27/2000 12:17:42 PM

Yes, but they're really good ones.

Now, what does this exquisite subcon lass see in the increasingly gross Rushdie I wonder. Lucky bastard, he's seen strolling Fifth Ave hand-in-hand with her quite regularly at least according to the NY Post).

644. pseudoerasmus - 4/27/2000 12:20:03 PM

They're not particularly interesting out of context. In context, yes.

Is Rushdie no longer in hiding or something? Where would a man in hiding meet her?

661. msgreer - 4/27/2000 2:27:02 PM

Looking for folks who want to get back into a lively discussion on health. Check out the slow thread, RIP Health.

JJ where are you?
Does anyone know if prof emeritus is on vacation?

677. Seguine - 4/27/2000 4:40:51 PM

The bulk of the conversation about lovely Padma Lakshmi (posts 645-660, 662-676) has been moved to the Cafe; I'm leaving the first portion of it here as a sort of teaser for the other thread, and because it contained posts which I suppose are in fact notices.

Unfortunately, the lack of a copy function means those posts had to be either here or there, not in both places, and I feared photos would fail to post in Cafe if I simply pasted copies of the posts there. The upshot is that the conversation in Cafe now begins with a nonsequitur from PE.

678. theDiva - 4/27/2000 4:42:39 PM

and this is unusual because.......?

679. ScottLoar - 4/27/2000 4:44:01 PM

But, Seguine, surely you've no objection to a bit of lascivity here now and then?

680. Seguine - 4/27/2000 6:36:51 PM

Loar, not at all. It's just that the conversation goes on for some 30-40 posts and doesn't entirely belong here.

Of course, the cigarette conversation didn't either, but letting it unfurl here instead of chasing it elsewhere was something of an experiment. I decided to leave it permanently after Spence's inquiry, which otherwise would have referred to a gaping hole.

But since you asked, I'm in the process of formulating a slightly different approach to this thread. Transferring Hot Padma is iteration #1 of the New and Improved Policy, by which I attempt to avoid obliterating conversations before they get going, yet keep N&Q easily scannable for notices, queries, and conversations related directly to them.

Padma could have happened in the Cafe. But it didn't, and I've come to see no reason it or any other civil conversation shouldn't start here. But once a conversation has run its course, or become lengthy enough to spawn tangents, then it probably needs to go to a more suitable thread.

My working policy at the moment is that a civil conversation that develops here and really doesn't belong anywhere else might as well stay here, unless and until a thread more hospitable to it is opened.

681. ScottLoar - 4/27/2000 6:39:51 PM

Ah, I see that a penny tossed reaps heaps of silver.

682. Seguine - 4/27/2000 7:55:08 PM

General Notice:

Saw a magazine ad for Kaboombooks.com, which promises lowest prices on "scholarly and general interest" books, with $3.00 flat rate shipping.

I ran a search for Amartya Sen's Development as Freedom, and it came up at $17.88, as opposed to Amazon's $19.25. Amazon generally charges $5-6.00 shipping for a book that price (compare w/$3 at Kaboom). However, Amazon allows you to reserve the softcover version, not to be published until August, for $12.

The flat shipping rate makes Kaboom incredibly attractive if you're purchasing several books.

683. CalGal - 4/27/2000 10:58:25 PM

An interesting Time article on buying stocks on a dollar cost averaging basis, recommending two online stock companies that allow you to buy portions of stocks for 2-3 dollars a transaction.

Of particular interest to me is the fact that Netstock allows you to create accounts for your children for only $1/transaction. Rather like a savings account for kids, with a lot better growth potential.

The two sites are:

Netstock
Buy and Hold.

684. CalGal - 4/27/2000 11:02:28 PM

In rereading my post, I realize I make it sound as if the Time writer is saying something new about DCA, which isn't what I meant. It's just usually not possible to do that with a variety of stocks without dealing with the companies directly. This is like a traditional stockbroker account, but with an affordable method of buying into a variety of stocks without killing yourself on commissions--and buying at the rate you can afford, whether for yourself or as a fun investment for your kids.

685. CalGal - 4/28/2000 2:32:16 AM

I don't know if I'm the only person who gets tickets around here, but if your court gives you the Internet traffic school option, take it.

I just did the whole course in two hours, while getting a lot else done as well. It was only $25. I used Web Traffic School, which seemed to have support the most jurisdictions and had the best response time.

686. joezan - 4/28/2000 6:56:44 AM

Cal:

Got it bookmarked, have you?

I never knew such a thing existed. Of course, the speed limit here is 70, and you've got to get up around 85 (or so I'm told) before they even notice you).

What does completing the course get you? Points off of your driving record? Reduced insurance premium?

689. CalGal - 4/28/2000 11:58:31 AM

Joe,

Well, for a long time I spaced my tickets to about 18 months apart. This meant I could keep a clean record by clearing them in traffic school. But back in 95, I was driving to and from Sac'to a lot, and then I started driving from Santa Clara to Pleasanton and then Emeryville--in short, when you drive more, you start to get more tickets. So I just started paying them off and taking the insurance hit--I pay about $4000/year.

The only thing was that this time they made me go to traffic court because I'd been going more than 20 miles over. This turned out to be a good thing--traffic court is one of the all time great deals. The judge just sits there and reduces the fine of anyone who shows up. I'm going to go more often. In this case, she knocked my ticket down to half the penalty and declared me eligible for traffic school, so that ticket's not on my record. I think I got two more that summer, though. I forgot about traffic school, frankly.

I don't have the site bookmarked; I had just finished the course.

698. Seguine - 4/28/2000 1:24:42 PM

CalGal, thanks for the stock site info. I'd been curious if affordable options of that nature existed.

701. CalGal - 4/28/2000 1:28:48 PM

I've been wanting something like that for years. Spawn has already picked his stock--it is, of course, WWF Entertainment. I was halfway through trying to gently discourage him before I realized what I was doing. Buy away, sez I quickly.

711. Seguine - 4/28/2000 11:06:41 PM

The conversation about driving and speeding is now in the Cafe.

712. pseudoerasmus - 5/1/2000 1:44:09 AM

On Monday morning I'll be leaving for five months.

I'll be travelling around in May. I'll spend June, July and August in Moscow. And in September, it's le nozze di Pseudoerasmo and then honeymoon. (Location yet undetermined). Then at the end of September we come back.

See you all later.

713. joezan - 5/1/2000 6:53:59 AM

Happiness to you and the future Mrs., Pseudo.

714. Seguine - 5/1/2000 11:07:34 AM

Have fun, and congratulations, you poor fatted calf.

(He thinks he's in control of this thing, but its only a few years now before little pseudoersamites swarm upon the earth...)

715. JJBiener - 5/1/2000 2:08:26 PM

I hope she doesn't get bored with PE too quickly. She really is the more intelligent of the two.

716. rubberducky7 - 5/1/2000 2:24:46 PM

jj -

i hope i can ask this:

is he marring the former frayperson he dated ('m')?

717. JJBiener - 5/1/2000 2:35:56 PM

Lucky - As far as I know he is marrying Montespan. I haven't heard otherwise. That's why I said she is more intelligent.

718. bubbaette - 5/1/2000 2:37:19 PM

I can't see Pseudo marring anyone. A vicious tounge lashing, maybe, but no lasting scars.

719. rubberducky7 - 5/1/2000 2:44:26 PM

jj -

you should prolly call me scott or rubberducky - there is a "Lucky" scampering about ya know

and thanks for the info. i personally can't see those two getting along for any stretch (i'm inclined to agree with bub) - but that's just me.

monte more intelligent that ps? hmm - i dunno close call, imo.

720. IrvingSnodgrass - 5/1/2000 2:45:50 PM

I can't see Pseudo marring anyone.

Heck, I've seen him mar lots of people around here. In fact, marring is one of his favorite pastimes.

721. bubbaette - 5/1/2000 3:14:37 PM

I stand corrected.

722. JJBiener - 5/1/2000 3:39:07 PM

Bubbaette - Orthopedic shoes?

723. Seguine - 5/3/2000 10:30:33 PM

Notice:

The last three electronic items I've purchased at Circuit City have failed within one year (or less--much, much less). These include a 17" JVC television, a 1 cf Sharp microwave oven, and a mid-price range Maytag dishwasher. (Moreover, I got hijacked on the installation of the dishwasher.)

It's all well and good to have one's appliances die under warranty, but the sales bastards should pay you to deal with the idiots who are supposed to fix or replace them.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder, is all this unreliability a case of bad luck, or the fruits of enhanced manufacturer "productivity"?

724. rubberducky7 - 5/4/2000 9:17:13 AM

Notice:

'I Love You' E-Mail Virus Attacks
Computer Systems World-Wide
Dow Jones Newswires


HONG KONG -- A computer virus spread by e-mail messages bearing the title "I Love You" spread through Asian businesses Thursday afternoon, and appeared to be quickly tainting computer systems world-wide.

If the attachment holding the virus is opened, the virus apparently multiplies by finding other e-mail addresses and prompting the computer to generate new e-mail. Victims sometimes receive dozens of e-mail messages, all contaminated with the virus.

The virus, which appeared in Hong Kong late Thursday afternoon, seemed to particularly hit, among other businesses, public relations firms and investment banks. Dow Jones and the Asian Wall Street Journal offices in Asia were among its victims.

In Hong Kong, Nomura International Ltd. is receiving the e-mail virus, an analyst said. The virus has created a lot of damage in Nomura's London office, he said. "It just multiplies through the system and eradicates whole address books," the analyst said.

Simon Flint, currency strategist at Bank of America in Singapore, said he has received e-mail messages warning him of the virus but hasn't received the actual virus.

I'VE ALREADY GOTTEN IT. So, be warned.

725. theDiva - 5/4/2000 9:26:23 AM

I got it twice this morning. Thank God I deleted it before I opened it.

726. rubberducky7 - 5/4/2000 9:28:58 AM

I'm up to twice as well, diva dear.

Glad someone issued a warnign to me first.

727. EricCartman - 5/4/2000 11:19:59 AM

Seguine:

I bought three items at Circuit City last summer: a Zenith 27" TV, a 100W Technics amp/receiver, and a Technics 60-disc changer.

The TV broke down after 10 days, and took three weeks for them to get the right part to the warranty repair center. (Apprently there is now only one parts center in the entire US for Zenith -- in Huntsville, Alabama. Go figure.)

The amplifier took a dump after five months. After a month in the warranty repair center, Panasonic (who now own Technics) decided that they didn't want to cover it. After a shitload of phone calls, several e-mails, and a veiled threat to buy and use the domain name "panasonicsucks.com", they not only relented, but replaced the entire unit for me. But this took nearly two months of flat-out ranting.

As for the CD player, it's had a few minor loading problems, but so far, so good (crosses fingers). Nonetheless, I'm a bit wary of buying anything from Circuit City in the future -- and CC, by the way, were absolutely no help whatsoever for either problem. If you don't buy their extended warranty (which should be a sucker bet if you think about it), you don't pop up on their radar.

728. AceofSpades - 5/4/2000 11:30:43 AM

virus warning:

By SUN ONLINE REPORTER

THOUSANDS of businesses worldwide have been hit by a devastating computer virus, known as the "love letter" bug.

The virus, which is spread by an email message called "I Love You" has infected about ten per cent of UK businesses.

The virus, which is thought to have started in Philippines capital Manila, is spread by opening the email.

Users receive a message reading "Kindly check the attached love letter from me!" with a file attached titled "LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU".

When the file is opened a program runs which automatically copies the email to all the people in the user’s address book.

It then downloads a file from the Internet to keep the computer tied up.

729. Raskolnikov - 5/4/2000 11:44:00 AM

I have received about ten of them. Yecch.

730. Seguine - 5/4/2000 11:49:50 AM

Cartman: I plan to do no more business with Circuit City. You do have to threaten, cajole, etc., to get them to honor their coverage, the 12th-graders they hire to man the returns desk are clearly illiterate, and the salespeople lie in the first place (which we all know, but it's fascinating what they say they warrant but don't put in writing). I never buy the extended warranty ripoff.

Problem is, Circuit City has displaced smaller retailers in our area. Very hard to find places that carry a reasonable selection of merchandise.

731. CalGal - 5/4/2000 11:51:07 AM

I got 8 of them, tried to delete it, but Outlook hung and now I can't get back in. I think that the email server at this client site got infected.

732. uzmakk - 5/4/2000 11:54:55 AM

Does anyone know if there has been a full account written about the discovery of H. Pyloris, the bacterium that causes 90% of stomach ulcers, and the trouble that its discoverer had getting his discovery publicized because of the interference of drug companies who were making lots of money from Tagamet ?

733. Absensia - 5/4/2000 12:05:52 PM

Reason 5642389670 why not to use Outlook!

More on the virus

734. PsychProf - 5/4/2000 12:13:50 PM

LOVE BUG

click on image

735. Raskolnikov - 5/4/2000 12:39:49 PM

Speaking as a former electronics retailer: Never buy extended warranties. (There are a handful of exceptions for equipment which gets manhandled a lot).

736. EricCartman - 5/4/2000 4:11:59 PM

Extended warranties are for suckers. If you don't think the new TV you're buying is going to last 3 or 5 years, don't buy it in the first place. I mean, it's a goddamned TV; you plug it in, and it shouldn't have any problems for a good 8-10 years.

Then again, something Seguine alluded to earlier is a subject Stumbo and I have argued about before -- I posited that as home electronics have become cheaper, the quality has substantially dropped, along with the service, and that most of these items were essentially disposable lighters with circuit boards in them.

(Which is pretty much a "duh". Anyone who thinks manufacturers really "pass the savings on to you" probably thinks pro wrestling is real, or that N*Stink really write their own songs and play the instruments.)

Anyway, Stumbo did not disagree; in fact he replied "So what?". He didn't mind that the VCR that was $50 cheaper would probably only last half the time it should. Which is fine, except that I do mind, as do a lot of people (I think). Yet the option of quality is no longer available to us. Mind you, the above three items I bought at Circuit City last summer totaled around $1100 or so; we weren't rummaging through the fucking bargain bin.

It's a pretty nauseating philosophy, really. If folks want a cheap piece of shit, good for them. But if you shell out the large dollars for a quality unit, you shouldn't have to wonder if the fucker will work next week, and how long it will take to fix if it breaks down.

I hardly bothered with CC in getting my units repaired; I dealt almost exclusively with the manufacturers themselves. Which is almost as much fun as gouging out your own eyes with a rusty spoon. Circuit City stands behind their products like Billy Barty.

737. Seguine - 5/4/2000 6:34:02 PM

"Does anyone know if there has been a full account written about the discovery of H. Pyloris, the bacterium that causes 90% of stomach ulcers, and the trouble that its discoverer had getting his discovery publicized because of the interference of drug companies who were making lots of money from Tagamet?"

The discoverer, whose name I can't recall, did indeed have trouble convincing fellow researchers that Helicobacter pylori caused ulcers. But this probably had nothing to do with Big Pharma, just overcoming dogma. I think once his data was published (and it was probably a major paper, i.e., in either Science or Nature, back in the late '80s or early '90s), everyone knew about it.

Academic researchers have no further need of "publicizing" such info. They don't get paid for their discoveries.

738. PsychProf - 5/4/2000 6:55:27 PM

"In 1979, pathologist J. Robin Warren (Royal
Perth Hospital in Australia) found large numbers
of spiral- shaped bacteria in tissue from stomach
biopsies. These bacteria, found underneath the
mucous layer that protects the stomach from
acid, were always associated with tissue
inflammation. Warren and his associate Barry
Marshall were finally able to cultivate the
bacteria, and in 1983 they published their first
report. Within six months, scientists all over the
world had found the same bacteria in patients
with gastritis, always in association with persistent
stomach inflammation. The organism was
assigned to a new genus: Helicobacter (species:
pylori)."

739. JJBiener - 5/4/2000 7:11:03 PM

There is another strain of the Love Bug going around. The title is FW:Joke. It has an attachment with a .vbs extension. Do not open the attachment. It reacts like the Love Bug.

BTW, the Love Bug has run rampant though our network. It has now crahsed our mail server. I have received over 100 messages from the two viruses.

740. CalGal - 5/4/2000 7:17:31 PM

Yes, the server here is down, too. One of my clients is Pocket.com, and they are just having an awful day.

741. joezan - 5/4/2000 11:20:07 PM

Cartman:

I don't know - maybe it's our age difference (about 7 years, if I recall correctly). But I bought my first TV at age 20, when I moved out of my folks' house and in with my gf. It was a 19 in. Zenith, on sale at Macy's for $439! I bought the extra year warranty for something like $50, and I still thought I got a great deal.

Then, 2 years later the thing blew. But I had had a repairman in about a month before the warranty expired, because it was arcing something terrible every time we turned it on, and was taking longer and longer for the picture to show. The repairman said it was "just a little dusty", and vacuumed it out. I brought it in when it finally blew, a week after the warranty expired. Some fat manager named Sy says to me, Hey -whatdafuck you want??? It's a friggin' TV - you want it should last forever?

That's why it amazes me that I now have a very nice 27 in. Toshiba for which I paid only $300 4 years ago, and it's still going strong.

I was a hardcore audiophile (till I got married), and used to think nothing of spending $1500 for an amp, and even more for speakers. Now, the sonic difference between a $300 amp and a $1000 amp is so small, I think that only a fool would opt for the more expensive one. The reason these things are disposable is that most things that go wrong with them cost nearly as much to fix as the item cost brand new.

Yea - the $1000 item is gonna last a lot longer than the $300 item. But these days that's no bargain, because you miss out on 3 generations of advancements while you're squeezing your pennies out of your trusty old clunker.

742. joezan - 5/4/2000 11:26:42 PM

Although, my dad is quite proud of his pre-transistor vintage Zenith am/fm receiver/amplifier, which he bought at a garage sale 15 years ago, and for which he bought a nearly complete set of replacement tubes on Canal Street a few years later.

He keeps it in the basement, where it heats up the whole corner of the room around his workbench.

743. EricCartman - 5/5/2000 1:28:38 AM

Joezan:

Those are good points, and true to an extent -- the technology is improving so quickly that a long-lasting part will basically be obsolete before it wears out. That is an important factor; it doesn't make sense to finesse a VCR to last 10 years if it'll be scrapped for a DVD in five.

But you should be able to get more than 10 days out of a brand new $400 TV. And when it does break down, it shouldn't take them 3 weeks to get the correct part to the customer. (Actually, Zenith never did get the proper part for my model in during those three weeks; the repairman finally got sick of seeing me at his shop every other day and found a spare part that would suffice.)

Maybe my case (and Seguine's) is just an anomaly; shit happens. But it does seem to be a natural result of belt-trimming and cost-cutting, a systemic thing. People get more and more used to inferior product quality and customer service, and companies naturally see the opportunity to push that envelope ever further. The M.O. seems to be almost a challenge: "What are ya gonna do about it? Spend your lunch hour playing phone tag with our customer service drones?"


I have lucked out also; I've had my same 200Mhz PC for over 2 years now, and aside from a defective CD-ROM drive early on (which took me about 15 minutes to replace), I've never had a problem with it. The only time it crashes is if I'm running five or six browsers simultaneously, and pushing it too fast. Yet the newer, faster computer at my work is a complete piece of shit that has to be babied through every little task. So you just never know.

One thing I also got at CC that I am more than pleased with -- a pair of Infinity bookshelf speakers. They are sweet, and have been problem-free.

744. joezan - 5/5/2000 8:07:29 AM

Cartman:

The rap on CC around here is that you get no customer support. It's true, but (at least in this area) they're just about the only game in town, having underpriced everyone else into the ground. So for me, it usually comes down to "Do I spend 25% more just in case something goes wrong in the first year?" In my experience, the percentages tell me "No".

I bought my PC, 15 in. monitor, and printer there (all IBM) 2 1/2 years ago. 2 weeks ago the monitor expired. It had cost me $329 new, and that was in a package deal. I did some research, and discovered this fairly new company, emachines, whose stuff was getting very good ratings. I went to CC, and replaced my IBM monitor with the same size emachines monitor - a more advanced component, with better resolution - for $109! If it blows up a year from now, I figure I still made out.

745. ButterfieldSwire - 5/5/2000 10:14:20 AM

Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering if if anyone knows how expensive rents are in coastal Northern California (Moneterey/Big Sur/Santa Cruz). I've heard that Silicon Valley and San Francisco are insane. Does that extend throughout the whole region?

746. PincherMartin - 5/5/2000 12:33:00 PM

ButterfieldSwire --

This is a guess, but I think Monterey apartments are:

One bedroom of fair quality - $900 - 1200

Two bedrooms of fair quality - $1000 - 1400

I have no idea what the rent is in Santa Cruz or Big Sur.

747. CalGal - 5/5/2000 12:49:31 PM

For comparison, I pay $1750/month on a 2BR/2BA in West Santa Clara.

It's not so much that the rents are insane in the Bay Area--it's just that there aren't very many properties (particularly upscale properties) once you get out of San Francisco. Between Menlo Park and Santa Clara, there are only about five properties that charge more than $1000/month for rent. Affording rent isn't the problem--finding a place to rent is.

748. theDiva - 5/5/2000 12:50:48 PM

Jaysus, $1750.

You can get a 5 bedroom house on an acre of land 40 minutes outside DC for that.

749. CalGal - 5/5/2000 12:52:51 PM

Oh, I know. I have a mortgage on a 3600 sq ft home in Cary, NC, on a third of an acre that's only $1500/month. And that's in suburbia.

I'm not buying in this area until the competition goes down. I don't mind paying a lot, but the bidding wars get insane.

750. theDiva - 5/5/2000 12:53:35 PM

I don't blame you. That's crazed.

751. CalGal - 5/5/2000 1:05:14 PM

My ex just wanted a 1br condo, and he ended up paying $50,000 more than he'd originally planned--all of it spent in competition. That eats up equity in a hurry.

And at the upper margins, you have Couple #1 paying Couple #2 $25,000 to walk away and not bid.

752. Seguine - 5/5/2000 1:25:19 PM

Butter: I know people who commute to Silicon Valley from Santa Cruz because the housing is more affordable in SC; I'm told long commutes are the rule now for most newcomers to the area.

But here's a tip. I don't know how good it is, may be too stale. But check into Oakland (maybe Emeryville, too).

In clear traffic, it's about a 40 minute drive to Mountain View/Palo Alto from Oakland. Also, in both cities there are a lot of old warehouses (mainly iron foundries and the like) that got turned into artist's live-work spaces in the last 20 years. Some are fixed up very nicely, some aren't, and they tend to rent out as quickly as everything else. But they may be a little cheaper than regular apartments, and the space is often much more interesting. Look into Ford St. Studios & (I think) Dutch Boy Studios, which are both located parallel to Hwy 880 between the hwy and the bay.

Some of these places, however, strive to rent only to artists and craftspeople. (If you're desperate, you could hire someone to compose a portfolio for you.)

I heard, too, that a bunch of rental property in downtown Oakland was renovated recently. That might be a neat place to live, especially since the BART is pretty extensive downtown.

753. Seguine - 5/5/2000 1:29:11 PM

Butter, I just realized you didn't say you'd be working in Silicon Valley. Sorry, disregard previous.

754. CalGal - 5/5/2000 1:29:25 PM

I was going to mention Oakland, but I figured you'd chime in. I agree--Oakland is doing very nicely, and while the commute to Mountain View is pretty long by my standards, it pales in comparison to the length of time it'd take from Santa Cruz.

755. CalGal - 5/5/2000 1:31:06 PM

At this point, if you're going to live in Santa Cruz, there's enough companies there that you might want to work there as well.

Of course, this assumes that you're looking at a move for job-related reasons.

756. Seguine - 5/6/2000 9:20:19 AM

Another good Bay Area option: Alameda. Good mix of Victorian and arts & crafts architecture. Pleasant, very walkable shopping district. Even a beach.

757. IrvingSnodgrass - 5/7/2000 10:30:19 AM

An Australian friend of mine, based in Bali, who is an international troubleshooter for the hotel industry, has just been asked to take over a problem hotel in the USA (some of you may remember the photo I posted of him in the old Holidays thread, as he and I ushered in the new year while our wives were in the restroom).

The hotel he will be handling, starting this Friday, is an 800-room monstrosity in Dallas, Texas. He asked me if I knew anyone in Dallas who could fill him in on the city... where to live, where to eat, where to send the kids to school, etc. He's pretty sure his Indonesian wife will find out where to shop quite quickly, but he's interested in some useful information. He's never lived in the USA, but he traveled around the country for a few months about 20 years ago, and is looking forward to the experience.

Does anyone know of a good web site or two about Dallas?

Also, do any of you who live in or near Dallas, or have lived there, have any tips of the sort you just can't find anywhere else?

758. robertjayb - 5/7/2000 1:11:00 PM

.
Irving,

Sounds like a job for JudithAtHome. She's from around nearby Fort Worth, the anti-Dallas. I think marshame is from up that way as well.

This weekly, Dallas Observer is interesting and the article about the convicted former city councilman and civil rights activist reflects a lot of Dallas history.

The Dallas Morning News is the big dog on the block, owned by a multimedia conglomerate said the be among the most profitable in the country.

759. IrvingSnodgrass - 5/7/2000 1:28:18 PM

Thanks, Robert. You're in Texas, too, aren't you? Where in Texas?

760. PelleNilsson - 5/7/2000 1:39:18 PM

Irv

I just saw in the paper that there has been a high-level chess tournament in Bali with players like Judith Polgar and Jan Tinman. Did you check it out any?

761. robertjayb - 5/7/2000 1:48:06 PM

.
Irving,

Central Texas...the boondocks. South of Dallas-Fort Worth, west of Houston, east of Austin, north of San Antonio.

(...message repeated in Politics for your further enjoyment.

762. JudithAtHome - 5/7/2000 2:27:04 PM

Irving:

Robert is very correct in saying I live in the "anti-Dallas"...in fact, I am terrified of Dallas so much that I seldom go there unless someone else is driving (and treating!) The people for the inside scoop on all things Dallas are Marshame and Jenerator. They will be able to give you the low down on whatever your friend needs to know about living in Dallas. Warn him about the weather...it's hot.

Which hotel is it? There are some spectacular hotels in Dallas. The last 3 times I went there, it was to attend big parties at fancy hotels. And the time before those three, I went to see the premier Kabuki dancer of Japan in his farewell tour. I will also go there to see a good art exhibit. But Dallas is very intimidating to me so I usually just read about it!

763. seguine - 5/7/2000 9:51:25 PM

Judith, last time I knew, Foat Wuth had much better art museums than Dallas.

Irv, tell your friend all he needs in Dallas is two or more very reliable automobiles and a home with central air conditioning. Everything else will follow.

764. seguine - 5/7/2000 9:59:43 PM

What kind of environment does your friend hail from in Australia?

Hmm. Tell him to look into the Lakewood and White Rock Lake areas. Housing is older there, more interesting perhaps. Also Turle Creek, if he has money. Possibly Oak Lawn; however it used to be the center of gay life in Dallas. Around SMU, in Highland Park, there are some attractive properties. I'm told Las Colinas is nice; it's not in Dallas proper.

The suburbs have probably improved a bit since I left.

765. ButterfieldSwire - 5/8/2000 7:55:01 AM

Thanks for the info, Calgal, Seguine and PincherMartin.

766. JudithAtHome - 5/8/2000 10:51:19 AM

Seguine:

We DO have better museums here but the Lalique exhibit and the Treasures of the Romanovs were in Dallas. I'd have walked there for the Lalique...it was his jewelry and it was fabulous.

767. IrvingSnodgrass - 5/8/2000 11:11:51 AM

Thanks for the info, Robert, Judith, and Seguine. I'll pass it along to my friend.

Judith:
Which hotel is it?

I don't know the name. All I know is that it's an 800-room independent hotel which is losing piles of money. It's not affiliated with a chain, and most Americans prefer to stay in chain hotels.

Seguine:
What kind of environment does your friend hail from in Australia?

He's from a medium-sized town originally (± 100,000), but he has been in the hotel industry for 20+ years, and has lived all over, including more than 10 years here in Indonesia (in Bandung and Bali).

768. IrvingSnodgrass - 5/8/2000 11:22:00 AM

Pelle:
I just saw in the paper that there has been a high-level chess tournament in Bali with players like Judith Polgar and Jan Tinman. Did you check it out any?

It was a very big deal here, with banners all over town. I don't think of chess as a spectator sport, so I didn't attend.

769. JudithAtHome - 5/8/2000 11:30:18 AM

Irv:

Tell your friend that at least 2 of us here in Texas would rather stay in non-chain hotels any day...much more character and more individual attention. Most of our best stays away from home have been in smaller, independently owned hotels and inns.

770. IrvingSnodgrass - 5/8/2000 11:57:28 AM

Judith:
True, but would you find a huge independently-owned hotel attractive?

771. JudithAtHome - 5/8/2000 12:53:36 PM

Irv:

I've stayed in big ones...maybe not 800 rooms, though. I honestly don't know if I would or not. Maybe when your friend takes over the one in Dallas, we'll go over for a night and check it out!

772. CalGal - 5/9/2000 3:15:33 PM

We are discussing having a Mote Movie Festival--it will probably start in about a month. I'd love for everyone to join in, and if you have friends or family members that watch movies, tell them to c'mon down.

Tentative plan is one movie a week for about 8 weeks. No commitments necessary; I won't be grading.

I think I'm going to ask Wabbit for a new thread, given that it's summer time and I want to keep the movie thread open for the blockbuster discussions.

If you're interested or have any questions, please post in Movies. I'll be looking for hosts as well.

773. rubberducky7 - 5/10/2000 1:19:51 PM

Yet Another New MS HotMail Hack Attack:

A glitch in Hotmail could allow a hacker to tap into a user's account and read his or her e-mail.

774. Seguine - 5/11/2000 9:38:21 AM

Speaking of Hotmail. I received a Hotmail msg from a motie who asked that her AOL email be listed in the addresses link here.

The precedent of including "private" addresses in the Mote Members' Public Email Address List has been set with Pelle and Jay's addresses. I personally discourage it, but will add a private (i.e., ISP-based) address to the list if the requester truly desires it. Nevertheless:

All listing requests, whether for private or public addresses, must be made publicly in this thread. Please don't email your listing requests, since I have no way of knowing whether the person making the request by email is the same person whose address is being given to me for publication in N&Q.

(Sorry if that seems a little paranoid.)

I will probably do an update in the next week, so any new inclusion requests should be made pretty soon.

Thanks.

775. rubberducky7 - 5/11/2000 9:46:41 AM

seg:

i've posted it enuff, but plesase include mine:
scottanton@yahoo.com

thx,

scott

776. JJBiener - 5/11/2000 10:37:24 AM

Seguine - You can include mine as well.

jjbiener@yahoo.com

It is pretty much common knowledge around here, but there might be some newbies who don't have it.

777. rubberducky7 - 5/11/2000 11:15:01 AM

interesting Slate article about the lovebug with a good response from MS.

my favorite point:

"As a matter of cultural style, it's odd that Microsoft has earned notoriety for laxness about computer security. The company is such a control freak, after all, in other domains. It may be in part because Microsoft itself likes to be able to do things to our computers from a distance. If you spend any time at MSN or Microsoft.com—even at Slate—you've noticed that you are often given a chance to "install and run" some ActiveX control or other, and you are invited to check a box that says, "Always trust content from Microsoft Corporation." These ActiveX controls can do anything, where Java, by contrast, was designed not to have unbridled access to the file system. Last year Microsoft got caught placing secret unique identifiers in Office documents and collecting associated hardware indentifiers from across the Internet. Soon all Office users will be required to register their software, in the name of copy protection, and allow Microsoft to check remotely on where the software has been installed. The company has just patented a technique for installing software upgrades over the Internet, after consulting settings in the registry. All this middleware, all this powerful scripting, helps Microsoft check up on its users. Maybe that's why the company doesn't feel any great urgency about having us batten down the hatches."

778. CalGal - 5/12/2000 4:36:34 AM

I wanted to post a general update on my many old email addresses, to make sure that those who sporadically email me are current.

Start with this:

If you have no idea what my email is, use the public yahoo address on Seguine’s list, and mention it to me (I don’t always check that one daily).

If you know what my home email address is, that’s the safest one to use unless I’ve asked you to send it elsewhere.

For those of you who aren't sure what you have, which one my home address is, or can’t figure out what Outlook is autofilling, you can delete any email addresses whose domain starts with:

OCT
HAM
HOME
CAP
CHA

God forbid you've got anything farther back than that, but zap PB or the one beginning with R if you've still been hanging onto it. (at that point, anything left is probably my home address.)

The email address starting with domain MET is still valid, but very unreliable--I won't see it at all for the next two weeks and then I'll only be there part-time. Don’t send anything to it unless you’ve checked first—otherwise I might not see it for days.

I will be sending some emails from a different address while on vacation—that’s as close to a work address as I have right now. Fine for when I’m on vacation, after that, if it’s time critical, send to my home address.

Phew.

I realize this must seem convoluted to the rest of you, but I often casually send someone an email from a work address and forget to mention that it’s temporary, or that I’m only going to be onsite at it two days a week. Next thing I know, someone has sent a Mote question to an email address I haven't even thought of for six months. Then I feel woefully disorganized and chaotic and hence, guilty.

So remember: Any work email address of mine is best written in pencil.

779. Dantheman - 5/12/2000 10:40:04 AM

New bridge lesson and quiz up in Chess and Bridge subthread of the Slow Thread.

780. Seguine - 5/12/2000 12:55:51 PM

Warning:

I just got an email alerting me to a Census scam in which someone calls you up claiming to need additional info for your census form, gives you your name, address, and perhaps some personal info like a maiden name, and then asks for your social security number.

Someone operating out of an apt. in Baltimore was pulling this & got arrested for it, but apparently isn't the only one working the scam.

781. marshame - 5/12/2000 3:06:31 PM

Irv

Seguine gave good advice about the nicer neighborhoods in Dallas. Is your friend coming with his family? Are they Muslim? There is a large mosque in Richardson (a suburb immediately north of Dallas). If he has family with school aged kids, the suburbs would be best (including Lakewood and Whiterock, though they are a tad expensive.) If he's single, then Turtle Creek and Oaklawn are great (and yes, Oaklawn is still the gay haven.)

782. IrvingSnodgrass - 5/12/2000 7:26:42 PM

Marsha:
That's very helpful advice. My friend is not religious, but his wife is Muslim (though I'm quite certain the location of a mosque would not be a factor in their housing decisions). They have three young children, so schools are a major consideration.

783. Seguine - 5/14/2000 12:06:05 PM

Public Email List, Update 2

Ace of Spades
Kevin_Blackthorn@yahoo.com

Adrianne
Adrianne3@hotmail.com

Arkymalarky
amalarky@yahoo.com

CalGal
the_calgal@yahoo.com

ChristiPeters
christipeters@hotmail.com

Diva
jazzdeev@yahoo.com

EricCartman
ecartman_61@hotmail.com

Indiana Jones
IndianaJones@resourceful.com

Irving Snodgrass
IrvingSnodgrass@the-fray.com

Jack Vincennes
slawyer@hotmail.com

JayAckroyd
jayac@dbsinyc.com

JJBiener
jjbiener@yahoo.com

Joezan
joezan1@hotmail.com

Judith At Home
JudithAtHome@mailcity.com

Pelle Nilsson
pelle.o.nilsson@telia.com

Pincher Martin
PincherMartin@yahoo.com

Phillipdavid
phildavid@hotmail.com

PsychProf
ozzienelson@hotmail.com

Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov123@yahoo.com

Rubberducky7
scottanton@yahoo.com

Seguine
seguine@hotmail.com

Stostosto
sto@privat.dk

Spence Mirrlees
SpenceMirrlees@hotmail.com

Tabouli Jones
scratchraster@yahoo.com

784. rubberducky7 - 5/15/2000 12:15:44 PM

Let the Tab flow once more!

785. theDiva - 5/15/2000 12:17:10 PM

Riv will be happy.

786. bubbaette - 5/15/2000 12:32:23 PM

You can still get Tab. I had a boss who was addicted to it and horded it.

787. marshame - 5/15/2000 12:41:38 PM

I thought he meant Tab Hunter.

788. rubberducky7 - 5/15/2000 12:47:36 PM

Tab Hunter?

789. marshame - 5/15/2000 12:53:50 PM

Oh rubber, you must be young.

790. rubberducky7 - 5/15/2000 12:56:14 PM

...

well, yes, you could say that.

791. marshame - 5/15/2000 1:01:02 PM

RD
Tab Hunter in 1963 with Connie Stevens in some summer blockbuster (sorry, I'm so old, I can't remember the title. But I remember the theme song: Summerplace. Ahh, to be young and blonde and in love!) It changed my life (I decided to grow my hair out so I could wear it like Connie.)
Tab Hunter is still alive and acting today - 55ish, and still ruggedly good looking. He had one of those false Rock Hudson-type voices, though.

792. joezan - 5/17/2000 11:56:53 PM

We never got a second line for our internet connection, but have been thinking about installing one of those programs that alert you to when someone is trying to call you.

I mentioned this to someone at work, and she asked "Why don't you just download Call Wave
- it's free?"

So I did. Best thing I ever got for free. It's simple, takes about 5 minutes, and works great. You download the program, and afterwards you're taken to a page that gives you the option of having them set you up with your phone company, or doing it yourself. I opted for the latter, because I knew the service was not free and wanted to know what my phone company would charge.

I'm with GTE, and it costs $1.25 a month. I was in like Flint in 2 hours.

The way it works is, when you go on-line a miniature control panel, with controls similar to an answering machine, pops up - you can move it anywhere on the screen you want. When someone calls you hear a ring. The caller is prompted to leave a message, and within a few seconds that message is downloaded to your PC, and you hear it over your speakers. It even saves the messages until you delete.

Works like a charm.

793. Indiana Jones - 5/18/2000 11:05:04 AM

Public service announcement

794. JudithAtHome - 5/18/2000 11:14:27 AM

So what will happen at 3pm est; will the entire Internet crash?

795. Indiana Jones - 5/18/2000 11:28:44 AM

Judith: I don't think so: no matter how many people want to get to Victoria's Secret (heh), her servers can handle only so many requests.

796. JudithAtHome - 5/18/2000 11:29:58 AM

Boy, sentence #2 is loaded with meaning.

797. rubberducky7 - 5/19/2000 8:47:39 AM

New, Nastier 'Love Bug' Virus Threatens Computers

798. rubberducky7 - 5/19/2000 11:14:32 AM

i'm a self diagnosed germ-a-phobe. it is something i deal with in many ways. that being said, this Salon article did little persuade me of my fears.

My favorite quote? Simple:

Chuck Gerba can tell you the number of bacteria in the average human stool (3 trillion), the average number of toilet paper squares used by American women (7 sheets), the average amount of fecal material in the brown streaks in a pair of men's underwear (a tenth of a gram --an amount comparable to a quarter of a peanut). He knows the scientific term for the sexual organ of a salmonella (pillus), and the average time a man sits on a toilet (10 minutes, according to research done himself, using a stopwatch and a stethoscope in a men's room stall at Baylor University). Gerba knows all.

799. uzmakk - 5/19/2000 12:10:20 PM

Hey, put me on that list as haysweep@hotmail.com.

800. uzmakk - 5/19/2000 12:12:32 PM

Pelle, please erase all memory of the password from your mind. Thank you.

801. PelleNilsson - 5/19/2000 2:30:30 PM

uzmakk

Does that mean you are actually going to do something about your site? I remember certain solemn promises months ago.

802. uzmakk - 5/19/2000 2:34:47 PM

Yes. I am a slow worker, Pelle.

803. uzmakk - 5/19/2000 2:38:55 PM

But its not like I haven't been thinking about it, Pelle. I have my scanner all loaded up with pictures and everything.

804. PelleNilsson - 5/19/2000 2:39:32 PM

uzmakk

Ah, you mean the mail account. Don't worry. Gentlemen don't read the mail of others.

805. marshame - 5/19/2000 3:19:55 PM

rubberducky - ugh!

Did you ever see the Saturday Night Live skit where they sold this light that could detect fecal material? It was hilarious!

806. JudithAtHome - 5/20/2000 9:52:10 AM

marshame:

I'm sure this will be deleted but it IS of vital importance: Tab Hunter was in other movies but the one with the music you recall (Summerplace) starred Troy Donahue and Sandra Dee....

807. JudithAtHome - 5/20/2000 9:55:20 AM

What threw you off was the character played by Troy...Johnny Hunter. The movie was A Summer Place and was made in 1959; a very racy "chick" movie in my day!

808. Indiana Jones - 5/20/2000 3:31:40 PM

I'm setting up a new thread, so things may look bizarre on the Religion thread for a little while

810. Indiana Jones - 5/20/2000 3:56:44 PM

"Tunnel of Love/Tower of Lust" is open for business. I'm currently hosting it, but if anyone else is interested in taking it over, please be my guest.

Its subject matter is described in post #2.

811. Indiana Jones - 5/24/2000 7:01:03 PM

Amaxen: I received your email, but the yahoo address must have had a typo in it or something because it's not working. Since you specified you wanted your password sent to that address, I'm reluctant to send your password to your actual address.

Also, neither address is the one on your account. I think you should email me from your account address requesting your password, or I should send the password to your account address. It seems like a bad idea to send someone's password to a mailbox that I have no way of knowing belongs to them.

Sorry about the red tape. You can of course also create a new account using your new address if you no longer have access to the old one.

812. rubberducky7 - 5/25/2000 9:34:05 AM

Two Comic Related Notices:

Frank Miller writes sequel to Dark Knight!

If you've always wondered, as i have, when and where elements such as Actinium have been mentioned in 60's & 70's comic books, now is the time so quit wondering! Now you can find out!

813. PelleNilsson - 5/28/2000 6:46:27 AM

MoteStories have been updated with one story by ButterfieldSwire and two by PincherMartin.

814. arkymalarky - 5/28/2000 2:47:41 PM

That site really looks great, Pelle. It's very easy to use.

815. PelleNilsson - 5/28/2000 4:19:54 PM

Thanks arky. There are some really good stories too. Angel-Five's, for example.

816. marjoribanks - 5/30/2000 11:14:45 AM

Does anyone know a good on-line source for market research on Internet sites? Like catalogs of page views, unique visitors, etc.

817. JudithAtHome - 5/31/2000 5:51:57 PM

We're having a reverse high school reunion over in the Cafe; post your yearbook photos and join in!

818. Slackjaw - 6/2/2000 4:53:28 PM

trying out the old duds...

819. Slackjaw - 6/2/2000 4:55:35 PM

cool. they fit.

820. Slackjaw - 6/2/2000 4:57:35 PM

I think I will retire SpenceMirrlees. I like this handle better after all.

821. marshame - 6/2/2000 5:14:14 PM

Judith

You are absolutely right about my Tab Hunter/Troy Donahue mix-up. I realized it later, but no-one commented, so I figured it slipped by. But the main point was Connie Stevens' hair! Oh how I longed for that look.(not Sandra Dee, like I said the first time. She was just too Gidget-y for me!)

822. CalGal - 6/2/2000 5:25:48 PM

Slack! I missed you.

823. Slackjaw - 6/2/2000 5:59:58 PM

ha. good to be back.

824. joezan - 6/2/2000 10:22:39 PM

Anyone:

Recently I happened to notice, when I passed my curser arrow over my internet connection thingy, that I was connected at 28800 bps. Since then I have been checking frequently, and find that it varies between 26000 and 32400 - never more, never less.

Considering that my modem's speed is rated at 56 k, is this unusual? If so, what can be done to optimize it?

Thanks

825. AytchMan - 6/2/2000 10:35:03 PM

joezan--

Depends. Your modem speed will vary as line conditions change. Was your modem running faster before, say at 40K or over?

826. CalGal - 6/2/2000 10:46:04 PM

Joe,

I think it depends on the speed of the connection at the other end? I've got a 56K but I never get that speed, and I think that's what someone explained to me once.

827. joezan - 6/2/2000 10:48:22 PM

Aytchman:

Thanks...

I am embarrassed to say that I have never checked before. However, it doesn't seem to be any slower than it was 3 years ago.

BTW - whenever I'm here at the Mote it's at 28800, and I've noticed that the connection speed is consistently 26000 at another site I frequent.

828. AytchMan - 6/2/2000 10:54:22 PM

Further info (risking crossposts)--

Just because your modem is rated at 56K doesn't mean you'll get anywhere near that. It's a weakest-link-in-the-chain kinda deal (phone lines, substations, servers and all). Even if the line is well-conditioned, service can deteriorate for other reasons (like weather).

You can download some software from 3com and run a line test to see if your phone line will handle 56k. I don't have the URL handy but if you can't find it, let me know and I'll track it down.

If the test fails, you're pretty much out of luck. The best the telco's guarantee is still about 24k I think. But if the test succeeds and you can't get somewhere in the 40's at least, then there's a bunch of things you can check in your system. But try the test first.

829. CalGal - 6/2/2000 10:55:24 PM

What's the difference between Windows 98 and Win 98 second edition?

830. joezan - 6/2/2000 10:57:50 PM

Cal:

Yea - I'd considered that too. And I don't know whether it means anything, but when I click the connection icon open, I'm always receiving at a greater rate than I'm sending. For instance, right now it says I've sent 800,000 bytes, and I've received 1,1000,000.

I'm probably obsessing over nothing, I know. I've even had two internet classes within the past year, ferpetesake, and I still can't figure out why this is...

831. AytchMan - 6/2/2000 11:16:39 PM

CG 829--

Not much. Bug fixes mostly. A few new features but most of these you can get elsewhere for free. Some internal rethreading. Save your money.

832. AytchMan - 6/2/2000 11:20:34 PM

joezan--

Here's the line test eddress:

http://www.3com.com/56k/need4_56k/linetest.html

It's really worth running.

833. CalGal - 6/2/2000 11:24:16 PM

Aytch--if I don't have either yet, Edition 2 is the one to get?

I'm usually too lazy to upgrade, but the Y2K bug is still causing me grief every time I reboot, so I figure it must be time.

834. RosettaStone - 6/2/2000 11:36:17 PM

I've punished you guys enough. I'm back.

835. AytchMan - 6/2/2000 11:40:48 PM

Hunh? Why is the Y2K bug biting you? Have you gotten all the fixes? Are you sure it's Y2K? Should we move this to another thread? Will they kick Richard out next week?

Assuming prices are anywhere near equal, Win98se is definitely the choice. As I said, it's not much better but it's sure not worse. But you might want to consider sticking with Win95 until Millenium (or whatever they're calling it this month) gets here. If you pick up all the fixes for Win95, it's finally reasonably stable. The only real hole I can't fix is getting the FAT32 file storage to make a big hard disk more efficient. But there's lots of stuff you can do to optimize Win95.

836. CalGal - 6/2/2000 11:51:30 PM

I can't reboot my system anymore. It stops when it sets the time. I have to reboot it mid-boot, and it gives me that menu where I can reboot in "safe" mode? At that point, no matter what selection I make, it comes up in super large font and I get an error message saying that there is an incompatibility between my display mode and the settings. Brings up my display settings, which are what I want them to be. I hit okay, and reboot. Or not, and then shut down and reboot. It doesn't matter, because half the time that will fix the problem the first time through, other times I have to do the same thing five times.

I address this by rarely rebooting.

I checked the microsoft site for patches, but none of them seemed relevant, and many of them said DON'T APPLY UNLESS and I didn't meet the unlesses.

So when it took five times today, I said fuck it. I want a new operating system, because I'm going to give this PC to my son pretty soon, and I want it to work before then.

(pause for breath).

I don't like futzing with operating systems.

837. IrvingSnodgrass - 6/3/2000 12:00:52 AM

I don't like futzing with operating systems.

There's an easy solution for that, and all the headaches you mention.

838. AytchMan - 6/3/2000 12:04:37 AM

CG--

Go to your happy place. There. Try a couple of simple things.

First, have you reset the date format? Go to Control Panel/Regional Settings/Date and change to one of the 4-digit year formats.

Second, download the y2k patch from Microsoft and install it. They may still be listing it on the main page; I know they were. Otherwise, it's in the Win95 section. The MS site is huge and poorly organized but it's in there somewhere.

If those don't work (or you've already done them), there's several other pretty simple things to try. And you oughtta try 'em, because upgrading to Win98 is not a simple task in most cases. For a lot of reasons.

Bonus technical advice: people who leave their systems on most of the time tend to have more problems because Win9x gets more and more confused the longer it's on.

839. CalGal - 6/3/2000 12:05:05 AM

Oh, I like not being able to futz with operating systems even less.

840. CalGal - 6/3/2000 12:07:04 AM

Yes, I reset the date format and yes, I downloaded the Y2K patch. I think I even applied it.

And yes, I know that installing operating systems is icky. But as I said, I want to give this PC to my son anyway pretty soon, and I think it's best if it has a new operating system on it. I'm reluctant to put the newest version on, because it will be buggy. But 98 has been around for a bit, yes?

841. CalGal - 6/3/2000 12:08:37 AM

I used to reboot all the time. But this problem has only started since after the first of the year, and it's getting worse. I used to be able to reboot without problems one out of every three times. Then I could fix it with just one reboot. Now it takes five.

I feel some part inside of the poor baby is dying, slowly.

842. AytchMan - 6/3/2000 12:16:46 AM

CG--

Yes, Win98 has been out long enough. MS fixed over 3000 of the 200 bugs in Win95. Win98 is somewhat more stable than 95.

Sorry if I'm treating you like a novice. Long experience has taught me to start with the simple, cheap fixes and then consider the more exotic, more expensive stuff. I won't bug you about scandisk, defragging and regclean.

843. AytchMan - 6/3/2000 12:19:19 AM

CG 841--

Your problem doesn't sound like y2k. Have you checked Device Manager?

844. joezan - 6/3/2000 8:15:34 AM

AytchMan:

Thanks for the tip. I ran the test, and it reported that a 56k connection is not possible with my telephone service.

Not that I'm surprised, out here in cow country - 3 weeks ago we had a party line going for a few days with the Lutheran minister and his wife around the corner. Anyone who dialed us or the church got both places. The phone company said they really couldn't do anything till we determined who I was sharing my phone with, but at that point the connection wasn't good enough to tell. A week later I called home from work and my wife and the minister's wife answered simultaneously. The connection was finally clear enough that we could trade info, and it was finally fixed.

Oh well.

845. alistairConnor - 6/5/2000 5:53:00 PM

Linux is a good stable operating system. I'd recommend Red Hat 6.1 or 6.2.

If you must have Microsoft, NT4 is by far the stablest choice.


It's funny, from W98 I always get a 45K connection. Using the same machine, modem and ISP, from NT4 I always get 55K. ????

846. alistairConnor - 6/5/2000 5:56:30 PM

Marj, are you still looking for a web usage analysis tool?

A good one is Fast Stats, you can download it here.
It's a $100 shareware.

There are much more expensive options, but this one does nearly everything.

847. CalGal - 6/5/2000 6:04:57 PM

Alistair, I'm trying to run a perl program on a Linux box, and I can't find out where the perl libraries are? I've tried /usr/bin/perl and /usr/local/bin/perl. Is there a command or something that will tell me the right library?

848. alistairConnor - 6/5/2000 6:12:38 PM

You could try the locate utility : start with
man locate

You need to build its search database with locate -u or something like that, then you can go : locate [some characteristic file]

But don't count on the accuracy of what I tell you... I've been a Unix beginner for 20 years now.

849. CalGal - 6/5/2000 6:14:26 PM

That seemed to give the answer! Thanks.

850. janjon - 6/5/2000 6:14:59 PM

"Alistair, I'm trying to run a perl program on a Linux box, and I can't find out where the perl libraries are? I've tried /usr/bin/perl and /usr/local/bin/perl. Is there a command or something that will tell me the right library?

I was going to suggest the handicrafts section, but I somehow gather that you aren't talking about knitting technique.

Sorry.

Carry on.

851. Indiana Jones - 6/5/2000 9:17:40 PM

Cal: On a Red Hat Linux installation the Perl libraries default to /usr/lib/perl5.

You can also change to the / directory and do

find . -name perl

or
find . -name perl*

find's actual syntax is
find starting_search_point -name name_to_be_found

If you're looking for the binary as opposed to the libraries and you're able to run perl (that is, it executes when you type perl at the command line), you can figure out where the perl you're using is located by

which perl

(The syntax for which is
which search_term
and it returns the first search_term in your current path.)

I'd never been introduced to Alistair's "locate," which is pretty embarrassing since he calls himself a Unix beginner, though he does have more years of experience with it than me. "locate" sounds pretty similar to "find" (in Unix-talk as well as Webster's).

852. Slackjaw - 6/6/2000 4:53:01 AM

EricCartman: check the Slow Thread

853. IrvingSnodgrass - 6/6/2000 7:58:12 AM

Pincher Martin:
Please check your e-mail.

854. AytchMan - 6/7/2000 1:26:49 AM

This just in--

America The Litigial--

One Cleanthi Peters, 57, filed a $15,000-plus lawsuit in Orlando, Florida against Universal Studios for last year's Halloween Horror Nights exhibit; she said she expected it to be frightening but not that frightening.

Charles Settles filed a $2,000 lawsuit in Brunswick, Ohio in January against his son's high school baseball coach. Settles argued that, because the team was so bad (winless on the season), it lost out on an all-expense-paid trip to a Florida tournament.

855. PincherMartin - 6/7/2000 1:38:54 AM

Irv --

Coming back at you.

856. AytchMan - 6/7/2000 4:40:44 PM

CNN is reporting that the judge has ordered Microsoft to be split into two companies.

857. Dusty - 6/7/2000 8:27:37 PM

CalGal

This may not apply to you, but we upgraded to 2nd edition to get the Internet Sharing Wizard. Enables us to have three computers connected to the internet simultaneously. There are a number of other things, but I think they are all bug fixes and available online.

858. CalGal - 6/7/2000 8:52:02 PM

Thanks, Dusty. I've described this problem to a few people now, and they agree with Aytch--it might not be a Y2K problem, but a hardware problem. They recommend that I use a Norton utility to check my BIOS, or something like that.

859. Dusty - 6/7/2000 10:17:35 PM

Aytchman

I was hoping at least you would try my puzzle:

Message # 5802 in thread 29

860. AytchMan - 6/7/2000 10:49:40 PM

Dusty--

Sorry about that, I will. I saw it, couldn't work on it at the time and then thought I saw somebody post a solution. Must be those psychic emanations from the Future War thread...pounding... pounding... it never stops...

861. sakonige - 6/8/2000 1:34:16 AM

tlv
tlv
tlv
tlv
tlv
tlv
tlv
tlv

862. AytchMan - 6/8/2000 1:03:22 PM

CG--

If you're still wrestling with your mochine, I've got some ideas on how to isolate the problem.

863. AytchMan - 6/8/2000 3:12:18 PM

Jesse Berst, a very knowledgeable editor over at ZDNet, recently identified another five dot.com's that are in serious trouble: Jeeves, EarthWeb, Buy.com, FTD, and AutoWeb. Fair warning.

Berst's Report

864. CalGal - 6/8/2000 3:14:23 PM

Aytch,

Response in Tech.

And I think the dotcoms are in trouble because the source of funding (rich people with money in the stock market) is drying up. It was to be expected. And, in fact, desired (provided the drop stays controlled). Too much money makes people careless.

865. IrvingSnodgrass - 6/9/2000 9:02:50 AM

Does anyone still use the old Fray Archives site?

If not, I'd like to take it down. I've been paying for it for over a year and a half (the old place never paid me for it, though they promised to), and I'm tired of shelling out $25 a month.

If anyone is still interested in it, there are two options: 1) Someone else can pay for it, or 2) The archives can be moved to server space we don't have to pay for (Jay?).

866. theDiva - 6/9/2000 9:13:51 AM

I thought we were paying for that out of our startup $$. No? We could split the cost. I'll pick up a month.

867. IrvingSnodgrass - 6/9/2000 9:46:32 AM

Deev:
I'd rather turn the whole thing over to someone else rather than trying to find donators each month. When we first started the Mote, a bunch of people offered to pay for varying periods of hosting the archives site, but I never had time to follow up, and only one contributor actually sent any money. I'd rather unload the whole thing now.

868. theDiva - 6/9/2000 9:49:35 AM

How big is the archive?

869. IrvingSnodgrass - 6/9/2000 9:52:38 AM

Deev:
I'm not sure. I think Wabbit might know, since she was the one who maintained it. The web site itself is enormous... something like 200mb, but we only used a small part of it.

870. CalGal - 6/9/2000 10:10:00 AM

Irv,

We have all that money everyone donated; at the very least I think you should be reimbursed. If it's not all that much space, I think we could move it to our site without it bothering anyone.

871. IrvingSnodgrass - 6/9/2000 10:15:08 AM

Cal:
If those who donated money find that acceptable, I sure wouldn't mind... I've been keeping the site going as a public service (and too lazy/busy to do anything about it, until now).

How would we go about moving the site? I'm not familiar with the mechanics of it.

872. CalGal - 6/9/2000 10:22:17 AM

I don't know if there's a quick way of doing it, but I imagine it's not too terribly difficult to ftp from one site to the other.

873. CalGal - 6/9/2000 10:27:31 AM

As for whether or not the money should be used, I think more people would have a problem if it wasn't used, I think.

874. CalGal - 6/9/2000 10:28:02 AM

Gosh. I must really think that.

875. phillipdavid - 6/9/2000 7:19:02 PM

I vote to reimburse Irv with the start-up money.

And I like to have the old archive site available....lots of good stuff there. So I would appreciate it being moved rather than just dumped and forgotten about.

876. lemwalker - 6/9/2000 7:24:13 PM

The hour is at hand. For the last year, knowing that I would become Lions Club president this year, I grew a ponytail. It is about the 4th time I have gone to such lengths. Naturally the stalwart members of my club were not too happy. Just suckered 'em right in. Tonight the highest bidder, a consortium actually, gets to whack it all off. The bid was for $1000. Guess they really hated it!

877. Slackjaw - 6/9/2000 7:34:04 PM

I third the suggestion of reimbursing Irv with the money that was sent to JJ. Something has to be done with it anyway -- I also think CalGal is right about its disposition.

878. CalGal - 6/9/2000 7:39:24 PM

Hey, Lem!

Wow. If someone paid me 1000 bucks to chop off my hair.....


No, I still wouldn't do it.

879. robertjayb - 6/9/2000 10:29:03 PM

.
By all means, reimburse Irv. Never know when you'll be down and out in Bali.

880. PelleNilsson - 6/10/2000 4:36:56 AM

I want to keep Archives, even to enhance them by adding search capabilities. I agree with others above: reimburse Irv and move them to a less expensive site if found. Jay's is one alternative but we already encroach on his hospitality. Geocities provides 15 MB for free. Each additional 5 MB costs $2.50.

BTW, when looking up Geocities I saw that they now offer streaming media hosting at a start-up cost of $4.95 and $5.00 per month per 100 MB actually used. This includes something called RealProducer for putting stuff on the site.

881. JayAckroyd - 6/10/2000 10:02:05 AM

I don't have a problem moving the archives to the server here.

On streaming media, I've just ordered a new server that would be hefty enough to support that, but I haven't decided whether to use it for internet hosting.

882. CalGal - 6/10/2000 2:52:26 PM

I'll be happy to "own" the transfer--unless someone else wants to do it?

883. Indiana Jones - 6/10/2000 4:08:39 PM

Judith has indicated a lot of interest in another Jeopardy game, but since it's been only about six months since the last one, I'm not too keen on doing the exact same thing again so soon (Rask should be able to enjoy his championship for at least a year).

I have been thinking, though, that it might be good to have an online role-playing game of some sort. Trivia could still play a part in it as folks work to achieve the overall goal. It would involve some competition and some cooperation, but before I put too much work into it, I want to check the level of interest, especially since traffic has slacked off for the summer.

How it would work logistically is I'd announce a "round" of it at least a couple of days ahead of time, most likely it would require about two hours during the weekend, and it would run until either folks lost interest or the goal was achieved, puzzle solved, whatever. Since the Quiz thread is fairly slow, that's where it would happen, unless we decide we need a dedicated thread. I'm thinking of something like those "Host a Murder" parties.

So, if anyone thinks this is something they'd be interested in, please email me IndianaJones@resourceful.com, or post here. In particular, whether you'd like to participate and which of the following settings you'd favor:

1. Old West
2. Film Noir
3. Science Fiction
4. Fantasy

All ideas are welcome.

884. PelleNilsson - 6/11/2000 2:22:45 PM

Indy

I'd be interested although I guess the time difference would be problematic. My best subject would probably be SciFi unless you would consider Norse mythology.

885. JayAckroyd - 6/11/2000 3:02:28 PM

Does anyone know an internet site with baseball statistics? What I'm looking for in particular is game scores and who the home plate umpire was. I'd like to calculate umpire ERAs.

886. JayAckroyd - 6/11/2000 3:07:36 PM

I have decided to use my new server as a webserver. I'm starting to run short on space on the drive where themote is currently residing, so I'll probably move it over to there. I think that'll take about a week after receipt of the server to get it up and tested. At that point, the archive could go up there.

887. Indiana Jones - 6/12/2000 9:13:18 AM

Jay: I posted a site in 7648 in Sports that might help.

Pelle: Noted. Will have to see whether anyone else responds.

888. JJBiener - 6/13/2000 11:30:03 AM

As Treasurer for the Mote I concur with the idea of reimbursing Irv. If there is no objection, let me know the amount and I will transfer the funds.

889. theDiva - 6/13/2000 11:34:08 AM

seems fair to me.

890. IrvingSnodgrass - 6/13/2000 11:45:10 AM

Thanks, JJ. I'll drop you a line.

891. JJBiener - 6/13/2000 11:50:49 AM

Irv - Send it to jjbiener@yahoo.com. I don't use my other accounts much these days.

892. alistairconnor - 6/13/2000 3:40:40 PM

Pelle, if we want to add search to the archives, that's something I can do. If Jay doesn't mind running IndexServer on the box - it's probably already running there - it would only take me a few hours to set up a basic search form.

893. rubberducky - 6/13/2000 10:37:55 PM

rubberducky7 now equals rubberducky

(never did like the "7")

894. IrvingSnodgrass - 6/14/2000 6:19:37 AM

And we thought it was your lucky number.

895. theDiva - 6/14/2000 7:29:39 AM

Don't know if I've said it lately, but in any case it bears repeating.

Thanks to Jay, Connor, Cal, JJ, Wabbit for what you have done and continue to do to make this a viable forum.

896. CalGal - 6/15/2000 1:55:55 PM

Deev,

Gosh, thanks.

Indy--left you a message in Tech?

897. PsychProf - 6/15/2000 2:02:04 PM

Cal et al...same message(Diva...895) from me.

898. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2000 2:07:11 PM

Cal: Sorry, hadn't seen it but just answered. (You, AytchMan, and sakonige were into all that Windows stuff last time I checked...heh)

899. theDiva - 6/15/2000 2:07:50 PM

Egads! And Indy. How could I have forgotten?!

900. Indiana Jones - 6/15/2000 2:16:06 PM

Thanks for the sentiment, Diva, but I get much more enjoyment out of the site than effort I have to put into it. The gatekeeper has to do very little.

I'm going to be out next week, though, so make sure you don't forget your password, doll face.

901. Indiana Jones - 6/16/2000 1:16:37 PM

Starting about now, I'll likely be Moteless for the next week, so anyone locked out will have to wait (or try wabbit).

See you all later.

902. arkymalarky - 6/16/2000 1:55:20 PM

Seeya, Indy.

And I absolutely agree with Diva's sentiments earlier in Message # 895.

903. CalGal - 6/16/2000 4:00:24 PM

Is anyone reading the NY Times' "How Race is Lived in America?"

Great stuff; all of the articles are compelling reading. The first I read, today's At A Slaughterhouse, Some Things Never Die was riveting, and that got me started on the rest. Don't miss it.

904. robertjayb - 6/16/2000 5:06:10 PM

.
CalGal,

That packing plant piece is a grim one. I knew something of the ghastly working conditions but I was surprised by the rigid racial divisions.

One of the earlier pieces, "Which Man's Army," intrigued me as well. In the military I knew it was said by blacks and whites alike that for a black man to make any real progress he had to be a Super Nigger.
As the worm turns a bit maybe the crackers will now have to be "Super Honkies."

Quite a series...disturbing in a good way.

905. janjon - 6/16/2000 5:20:54 PM

The first of the series, dealing with a large and now racially mixed church in suburban Atlanta, was both acute and distressing. You got the clear feeling that in the final analysis that church would lose most of its white members, even though it has been successfully mixed for a number of years. Poignant. The one about the way race played a major factor in the roles of white and black internet entrepreneurs also was quietly sad as well as fascinating. Hard to feel terribly sorry for the black who did come out of the venture with $25 million, but the article makes it clear that in many ways that count in those leagues (image, prestige, ability to parlay that success into the next), the black got the short end of the stick. Haven't read either the one about the army or today's episode yet, but certainly will.

Pulitzer - at the very least.

906. CalGal - 6/16/2000 5:37:01 PM

What's also interesting is that Cobb (the "black" guy) agreed that the other guy should be CEO--even though he had more experience and it was his idea.

Yet his white friend (Levy) never sold him out, and they are still friends. But in looking back, I wonder if they should have realized what would happen and work towards making him more visible.

The packing plant one is amazing--beautifully written. Not so much about race as it was power, labor, corporate nastiness and government cooperation. And the illegal Mexican immigrant made less than the older black man who'd been working there two years. How'd that happen?

907. janjon - 6/16/2000 6:04:39 PM

Oh, I think it is quite clear that Cobb and Levy realized, tacitly, that their venture would have a bit easier time of it if Levy the white was seen as being the CEO. And, the article really does make it clear that Levy did his best to portray them as co-equals. With hindsight, perhaps they could have had the courage to overcome the venture capitalists convictions that it would be more difficult to sell the venture as having two heads, etc.

These articles clearly have been in the works for a long time. You don't get the consistently clear and understated writing that abounds in them without a lot of careful, reflective editing and thinking.

908. CalGal - 6/16/2000 6:11:53 PM

Well, I can see deciding to take the easy way out and having the white guy be CEO. But had they known what would have happened vis a vis perception, they probably would have done things differently. And Cobb could have done more to promote his own visibility--actually, as a successful black man in high tech, he wouldn't have had to do much in order to get a lot of press.

909. janjon - 6/16/2000 6:18:06 PM

One also wonders if either of them (or Cobb's now estranged wife) would have even wondered much about the effects on Cobb had his second venture been as successful as the first (and if Levy's had not been). Doesn't seem like it would take too much to dispel the perception at parties, civic gatherings, etc., that Levy had been the swizel stick.

Again, I won't be crying buckets of tears for Cobb. By any material measure, he's got it made.

910. CalGal - 6/16/2000 6:22:34 PM

No, but the whole point is to wonder--at least a bit--if his inability to get funding is linked to the fact that he wasn't viewed as the mover/shaker of the previous company.

That being said, I very much liked the fact that Cobb said, "Look, in the end, the product idea I had just wasn't successful." And hell, he'd already had one successful idea--it's hard to have two. It might just have been Levy's turn.

As for feeling sorry for him--he didn't take on the CEO position in a company that was his idea, even though he had more experience. He didn't do this because he ws black. I think that's pretty sad, no matter how rich he is.

911. janjon - 6/16/2000 6:30:25 PM

Well, yes, he indeed might have been able to get funding for the second venture a bit more easily if he had the instantaneous image of having been the mojo behind the first highly successful venture.

It would be interesting to have a followup article on those two in, say, about five years. I suspect both will have done quite well.

One also wonders if Levy's family connections (Rosenwald money a la Sears Roebuck), and a decision that he might have an easier time tapping same if need be as the CEO, also might have had a bit to do with his and Cobb's decision re the CEO. Nothing in the article to so indicate, though.

As for the church article - the one little simple statement, just left dangling there, that the white family was scoping out another church, said so much so elegantly.

912. CalGal - 6/16/2000 6:33:28 PM

You know, I haven't read the church one yet. I thought it would depress me, and yours and bobbyj's comments reinforce that. I'll get right on it.

913. CalGal - 6/17/2000 7:21:59 PM

BTW, I've noticed a lot of new faces lately, which is good to see, given our usual summer slowdown.

Ready Teddy, someone named Bill, Karl Northam have shown up in the past week. Mandolin and Aytchman have been around for a while now, but I wanted to acknowledge them and say how much fun they are to have around.

I'm sure I've missed some, so chime on in if I have. Anyway, welcome to you all!

914. JudithAtHome - 6/17/2000 7:33:27 PM

I second what CalGal said...welcome to the new guys!

915. seguine - 6/19/2000 12:10:07 PM

NOTICE:

Someone will be needed to replace me as host of N&Q, as I am now formally abdicating my responsibility for it.

Have fun,
Seguine

916. rubberducky - 6/20/2000 8:39:19 AM

New Virus Alert

"The e-mail message contains "funny," "life stages" or "jokes" in the subject line. The text of the message reads "the male and female stages of life," with an attachment, "life_stages.txt" or "life_stages.txt.shs.""

917. Webfeet - 6/20/2000 9:40:48 AM

I got it! I got it! I finally got the virus message!

Maybe now I'll even get called to take a poll!

918. alistairconnor - 6/20/2000 3:52:25 PM

Bibiche, you haven't really been around until you've had crabs.

919. DaveM - 6/20/2000 8:31:48 PM

S. J. Gould is giving a lecture on evolutionary biology at the Natural History Museum in D.C. tomorrow, Wednesday, at Eight pm. 13$.

920. CalGal - 6/20/2000 10:21:07 PM

I saw him when he was in SF. He's a great speaker.

921. CalGal - 6/21/2000 4:17:47 PM

Man. I know I've just said this recently (the last post is still on this page), but it bears repeating: Read the NY Times series How Race is Lived in America.

922. PelleNilsson - 6/22/2000 2:00:50 PM

I've been backtracking a bit. Doing so I took the opportunity to jot down some numbers. So here is the traffic on the Mote from May 22 to June 21.

(I put it on my site because of the pitiful limitations on tables here.)

Highlights: 9,971 posts or 332 per day. Most frequented thread: The Café.

923. JayAckroyd - 6/22/2000 2:08:45 PM

Thanks, Pelle.

Books needs a new host.

Is it easy to calculate how many unique user names posted in the same period?

924. PelleNilsson - 6/22/2000 2:27:12 PM

Jay

I started with the ambition of making a table with posters in rows and threads in columns but when I saw the volumes involved I had to give up.

I don't know what alistair can do on the data base.

925. JayAckroyd - 6/22/2000 2:30:04 PM

I figured that out when I reread your message and saw the reference to "jot." Thanks for straightening me out.

926. Webfeet - 6/22/2000 3:33:09 PM

Why is the Evil One's name still listed as thread host when she has abandoned her post?

927. Uzmakk - 6/22/2000 3:36:12 PM

The Evil One is not abandoning us is she?

928. Uzmakk - 6/22/2000 3:36:39 PM

Just leaving her post.

929. joezan - 6/23/2000 7:15:37 AM

NOTICE: Two days ago, I paid $2.18 per gallon of (regular) gas. It was the cheapest I could find. High test was $2.38 at the same station.

QUERY: What are people paying around the rest of the country?

930. OhioSTOPAS - 6/23/2000 7:21:34 AM

Here in central Ohio, yesterday I paid about $1.90 per gallon for low octane (87). There was a sharp drop of 10 or 15 cents per gallon in the last day or two.

931. joezan - 6/23/2000 7:27:50 AM

Ohio:

Thanks. My brother told me the highest he's paid (in NY) is $1.69. This is ridiculous. I was gonna drive out to NY in about a month.

Looks like I'll be flying.

932. theDiva - 6/23/2000 7:56:55 AM

Joe

That's obscene. $1.55/regular, $1.69/supreme, premium somewhere in the middle.

933. CalGal - 6/23/2000 10:01:48 AM

Now that's odd. I've regularly experienced the highest gas prices of the group of us--but now that "gouging" is going on, I'm paying less. I don't know the price for sure, but it's somewhere between 1.85 and 1.95, and that's what I was paying several months ago when y'all were paying 1.50.

At least now I know why the possibility is being reported--I couldn't figure out why everyone was bitching about price gouging when I was paying under $2.

934. rubberducky - 6/23/2000 10:23:22 AM

yeah, i was "lucky" last nite to find a shop with $1.96. bought $15 and got almost half a tank

bastards

isn't there a country we can bomb for this? sheesh.

935. PelleNilsson - 6/23/2000 10:38:30 AM

Over here it's about $4.50.

936. theDiva - 6/23/2000 11:14:36 AM

What?

For that, they should give you a driver to go with the fuel.

937. CalGal - 6/23/2000 2:57:32 PM

Hey, what the hell happened to the Newsweek site? It was eaten by MSNBC?

938. CalGal - 6/23/2000 3:12:14 PM

For those of you with kids, a good chatroom is Freezone. It is a chatroom, not a forum, but it is well-monitored for both good behavior and pedophiles.

And is there enough interest in the kids of this group to start a thread for them? There aren't any true forums out there for kids, and it might be fun for them to have a place to type something more than: statz 12/m/cal--r u there?

939. theDiva - 6/23/2000 3:15:04 PM

Well, who do we have?

Spawn, Gracie, LD, Mose. Who else has rugrats? JoeZan, Uzzles, Riv.

940. CalGal - 6/23/2000 3:27:26 PM

Irv. Ohio, I think.

941. theDiva - 6/23/2000 3:28:41 PM

Egads, how could I have forgotten Irv's kids! And yeah, Stopas has munchkins, whom I am sure he is misguidely rearing as Red Sox fans. The poor bunnies. They really need to meet Gracie.

942. Fraaankster - 6/23/2000 3:31:02 PM

And, of course, the two that I will have some day ?







I hope. :-)

943. theDiva - 6/23/2000 3:32:30 PM

But of course.

944. Uzmakk - 6/23/2000 3:58:33 PM

Having a thread for our kids is an idea worth considering, but how do we keep them off the adult threads. Too difficult? Yes? Impossible?

945. CalGal - 6/23/2000 4:05:29 PM

There's nothing stopping them from posting there now, is there? In general, I think it would be boring for them, although the ToL would be a bit problematic.

If a kid started running amuk, his or her posts could be deleted and suspensions occur just like normal--this is obviously the worst case scenario, where the parent hasn't done it first.

Incidentally, this might be a bad idea. I'm not promoting it at this point, just talking it through. Some kids might be interested in a real forum. If you've ever seen a kids chat room, you know what I mean.

946. Jack Vincennes - 6/23/2000 4:10:59 PM

I'd be interested in the feedback from motie children on rubberducky's orgy tips.

947. CalGal - 6/23/2000 4:13:14 PM

Right. Thanks for the valuable input. Someone reading in might think that we didn't screen for pedophiles.

948. Indiana Jones - 6/23/2000 4:13:18 PM

I think Ace would make a good mentor and role model for troubled youth.

949. Jack Vincennes - 6/23/2000 4:17:13 PM

Indy

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

New thread.

"Ace Talks to Your Kids"

950. Jack Vincennes - 6/23/2000 4:18:45 PM

MOTIEKID

"Ace, I'm having trouble with my girlfriend. Every since she got a boyfriend, she ignores me."

ACE

"Ignore the little whore. She's getting it and she's getting it good. Barbie doesn't cut it for her anymore. She's found her own Ken. Get over it. Assface."

951. CalGal - 6/23/2000 4:18:50 PM

Actually, that would be pretty good. Spawn could definitely benefit from someone like Ace. I dunno about the girls.

But I was thinking something more for them, although adults could answer questions or provide information if needed.

952. Indiana Jones - 6/23/2000 4:18:50 PM

(Jack's last post not to be read while drinking a carbonated beverage.)

953. Jack Vincennes - 6/23/2000 4:19:37 PM

"And your father's a freaking liberal dickweed. No wonder you're so fucked up. Now, go make an Ovaltine sandwich, princess."

954. CalGal - 6/23/2000 4:19:58 PM

And although I didn't see Jack's last post, I stand by my comment. However, I wouldn't raise a child stupid enough to earn Ace's ire.

955. CalGal - 6/23/2000 4:20:49 PM

And now, take this riff to the inferno, since I don't really feel like seeing 25 more of the same and have to link people back to the previous conversation.

956. Jack Vincennes - 6/23/2000 4:21:52 PM

MOTIE CHILD

"I just can't get these Duplo blocks together."

ACE

"What are you, a fucking crack fiend? They're blocks, for chrissakes. My God, the results of liberal America come home to roost when little Johnny gets a block wedged up his ass. Nice one, fartknocker."

957. Cellar Door - 6/23/2000 8:15:32 PM

Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell
Pinocchio Bore: Guilty as hell

958. PelleNilsson - 6/24/2000 12:58:26 PM

An invitation to a competition in Stories.

959. joezan - 6/24/2000 11:30:37 PM

I dont no abot you peeple, but I been posting hear for 2 years.

Signed,

JoeZan's Daughter

960. CalGal - 6/24/2000 11:34:05 PM

hahahahahha.

Whenever Joe sounded sensible, it was you?

961. joezan - 6/24/2000 11:54:26 PM

Dad saves me for the lite werk. Like last week. he had to go outside and fix the fense so he told me to argew with this man named wizofwow. He cursed at me! But dad sed he just dont know any bedder and so he curses at evrybody.

962. PelleNilsson - 6/27/2000 1:23:26 AM

I've been in contact with stostosto. He has been a bit overworked lately but will now go on a four-week vacation. He will rejoin us when he returns.

963. Slackjaw - 6/27/2000 5:31:03 AM

Oh, I guess it won't get updated now that Seguine has abdicated but my email is slackjaw@hotmail.com.

964. rubberducky - 6/29/2000 12:33:38 PM

Query:

Going home for lunch today, i pulled the bread out of the fridge and began to ponder why it is that keeping the loaf of bread in the frig makes the loaf last longer, by weeks (which is good since i'm a bachelor and that's how long it usually takes for me to eat one), then the shelf life of a loaf of bread.

Why is it that bread lasts longer in such a fashion?

965. Indiana Jones - 6/29/2000 12:40:14 PM

ducky: My guess is (besides the general ability of refrigeration to slow down chemical processes and retard the growth of organisms) that it's the lower ability of cool air to retain moisture, meaning it can't dry out the bread as easily.

So if you put a wet wash rag in the refrigerator it should stay wet longer too.

One of the more scientific types here can probably give you a better answer.

966. rubberducky - 6/29/2000 12:49:58 PM

that's an idea

i was wondering if the cool temp made it harder for mold to grow

but i'd have no idea, but your idea sounds possible too.

967. rubberducky - 7/3/2000 11:15:12 AM

well, here's a quiz that might be a little easier to answer.

i got a 5. i never do well on these things. oh well.

968. Slackjaw - 7/3/2000 6:24:49 PM

I always wondered about that relationship between height and pay. Maybe it has to do with nutrition or something? Which would make more a matter of selection bias (men who are better nourished as young'uns tend to be both smarter and taller, say) than naked, shallow awe at a tall person.

But that quiz claims no such relationship was found in similar studies from the '70s, when I would have expected it to matter more.

Of course it also dates "Rome" to 2000 b.c., when the place didn't even exist by a long shot, and "Greece" to 2000 b.c., ages before even Homer. That tends to given me slight pause in accepting the claims of Underwire's research crew.

969. Max Macks - 7/3/2000 8:13:50 PM

Anybody called Slackjaw must have something special about him/her.

But I wonder what.?

Is the phrase " But I wonder what" a question
or a statement. ?

970. CalGal - 7/7/2000 9:31:12 PM

AIDS in Africa, Washington Post series.

It's not as intensely readable as the Times series on racism, but it's worth a look.

971. PelleNilsson - 7/8/2000 3:53:15 AM

CalGal

I didn't read the article on racisim you linked to, but the IHT later published the one on the pork factory in North Carolina. Fascinating and frightening at the same time. The AIDS series is in the IHT too.

972. CalGal - 7/8/2000 5:44:48 PM

Pelle, you can read the entire series at the Times, and I very much recommend it.

What surprises me about the coverage of AIDS in Africa--not so much in this report, but generally--is that no one comes right out and says that there really isn't a damn thing we can do about it.

973. AytchMan - 7/12/2000 12:38:54 PM

To All Citizens:

Henceforth, all N&Q posts that fail to include at least one favorable reference to the Cosmic Ruler must be submitted to the Political Compliance Committee for review.

974. PelleNilsson - 7/14/2000 7:16:08 AM

Today it is 211 years since the storming of the Bastille.

Congratulations to Alistair.

Allons enfants de la patrie ...

975. rubberducky - 7/14/2000 8:19:08 AM

IE 5.5 is out there for those wanting to upgrade.

976. Indiana Jones - 7/14/2000 8:43:09 AM

I will have limited access to the Net for about the next two weeks, so those having trouble with accounts may have better luck emailing wabbit.

977. Uzmakk - 7/14/2000 12:27:13 PM

caption for picture in my local paper, top left pg.2,

Laugh fest under way
Members of the Australian comedy troupe Chrome on Thursday play a tune on their snorkels as they help launch the Just for Laughs comedy festival in Montreal, Canada. The festival, which runs until July 23, features more than 1,500 different open-air shows by some 800 comics and performers from 20 countries.

--a public service announcement brought to you by The Master of the Blue Wolf.

978. theDiva - 7/25/2000 1:20:35 PM

Geeks

Motie e-mail address page has been updated. See the link in the Cafe.

979. theDiva - 7/25/2000 1:20:50 PM

Good God, uzmak.

980. rubberducky - 7/25/2000 1:36:06 PM

Re: Message # 975.

take it from someone who knows, you can do without this "upgrade"

981. Jenerator - 8/1/2000 11:24:29 AM

Take the Internet Addiction Quiz in the Internet Thread!!

982. Indiana Jones - 8/1/2000 11:33:39 AM

Jen: You might want to use the "News" function on your thread-hosting menu to put this info on the Welcome page. It may not be as effective, but will be less likely to draw ire.

983. Jenerator - 8/1/2000 11:37:45 AM

Indy,

I'm on a MAC and everything appears to be fine.(?) I previewed the post before posting -- everything was in order. I've tried to test for toys after the post and everything appears to be fine. I cannot see from this MAC the problem. Should I go into every thread and type something to fix the problem? If so, what should it be?

984. Indiana Jones - 8/1/2000 12:41:20 PM

Jen: Mom appears to be taking care of it.

</font> fixes the open tag.

985. PelleNilsson - 8/5/2000 3:52:31 PM

Who was Liberty Valence?

It's not a quiz; I want to know.

986. CalGal - 8/5/2000 4:00:55 PM

Liberty Valance was the character played by Lee Marvin in the John Ford classic, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

987. CalGal - 8/5/2000 4:02:31 PM

We are coming up on our year anniversary and are discussing means of publicizing it. Please check out Internet Life if you're interested.

Concrete suggestions and calls to action equally welcome.

988. PelleNilsson - 8/5/2000 4:08:24 PM

CalGal

I know about the film, although I haven't seen it. I thought he was a historical character like, say, Doc Halliday or Wyatt Earp.

989. CalGal - 8/5/2000 4:19:40 PM

I'm pretty sure not. I just checked the IMD, and researched it from there--the film is derived from a Dorothy Johnson short story. Johnson wrote a number of Western short stories and novels, including A Man Called Horse (which was also adapted for film).

I don't follow Western writers much, but Johnson has a long listing at Amazon. So I'd guess that Liberty Valance is her creation, not a real character. If he was a real person, he's not part of the standard canon.

990. PelleNilsson - 8/5/2000 4:32:17 PM

Thanks for your effort. I guess it was the unusual name that fooled me. Sounds like an itinerant preacher or something.

991. PelleNilsson - 8/5/2000 4:32:44 PM

It takes only two ...

992. PelleNilsson - 8/5/2000 4:33:19 PM

... posts to get rid of the Jenerator aberration.

993. rubberducky - 8/7/2000 8:52:56 AM

heh

Random House has announced that its latest edition of Webster’s New College Dictionary is keeping up with the times by adding an assortment of computer-and Internet-related words.

Among the cultural terms Americans will now be able to find a definitive definition for is the word “gaydar,” which the dictionary says is a “homosexual’s ability to spot another homosexual intuitively.”

994. CalGal - 8/11/2000 6:49:01 PM

JJ and Adam Selene (if you're around),

We've been talking about consulting in Employment and Careers, and given that you both are brands X and Y to my brand Z of consulting employment status (employed, running own business, and mercenary indie), I thought you could add in your two bits worth vis a vis Ducky's situation.

995. PelleNilsson - 8/20/2000 2:52:31 PM

I have started a photo gallery on my home page. It is also accessible from the butterscotch bar in the Cafe. If you have any trouble, please let me know, here or there, or here

996. PelleNilsson - 8/20/2000 2:58:59 PM

I forgot to say that currently Early life and Yemen are available.

997. PelleNilsson - 8/21/2000 6:43:10 AM

I have added some pics from the summer cottage and from Lebanon.

998. marjoribanks - 8/21/2000 10:04:04 AM

Very nice, Pelle. Thanks for sharing those with us. I particularly liked the early life photos. Those are some funky pantaloons you're wearing.

Also, your wife was/is very attractive. Those black and whites (especially) show someone genuinely vivacious and full of joie-de-vivre. You're a lucky fellow.

I'm idly considering putting up a similar page, especially with all the baby photos I have in jpeg format, but haven't yet figured out how to upload them to a webpage. Any suggestions on the best free and easy to use webspace around?

999. rubberducky - 8/21/2000 10:17:43 AM

Banks

I used TopCities to do WoW's fan page and liked the interface. they have an applet that will allow you to upload an impressive amount of pics at once. plenty of space, too, for the kind of site you're planning.

1000. rubberducky - 8/21/2000 10:17:56 AM

a grand

1001. marjoribanks - 8/21/2000 10:44:34 AM

Thanks, I'll check it out.

1002. PelleNilsson - 8/21/2000 12:37:58 PM

marj

My wife sends her regards, says to thank you and to congratulate you to the adorable little boy on display in International.

1003. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 11:57:46 AM

Very fine pictures of you and your lady wife, Pelle. Especially with your friend Massey Fergussen.

In that vein, I may reveal that I, too, have a Swedish Partner. In fact, I took her out just yesterday. I cleaned her air filter and spark plug, treated her to some 2% mix, fitted a sharpened chain and started cutting wood for the winter.

She's noisy and she smokes too much, but I love her all the same.

1004. PelleNilsson - 8/22/2000 12:58:06 PM

alistair

I have a 13 inch Partner. What about yours? Isn't it late to cut wood now? What kind? Pine?

1005. theDiva - 8/22/2000 1:01:00 PM

I have a 13 inch Partner. What about yours?










naaaaahhhhh....too easy.

1006. alistairconnor - 8/22/2000 1:15:44 PM

To be honest Pelle, I've never measured mine...

Well I just did. 45 centimetres. About a foot and a half. Yes, mine is bigger than yours.


The wood is mostly oak, 100 years old at a minimum. Hand sawn beams and planks; dirty dusty demolition timber with lots of rusty bolts and old hand-forged square nails waiting to eat the chainsaw blade. More trouble than it's worth, but we have to do something with it.

1007. PelleNilsson - 8/23/2000 3:07:59 AM

I'm posting this in the Cafe and N & Q for maximum exposure.

Our old friend Hashke has published a new book, refer to Language for info. He sent me a copy which I received yesterday and I e-mailed a thank you note. His wife replied thus

Dear Pelle, Alan will be so glad you liked the book. He wanted to make sure you got it. Right now he is in the hospital, but I hope will be home tomorrow and I hope in somewhat better condition. He has been and still is quite ill.

We put the book on Amazon.com and if you have a chance, you might let some others on the mote know. My Best, Kaye ( Alan's wife).

1008. Indiana Jones - 8/23/2000 8:47:17 AM

Re the dialogue 1003-1006, name the movie:

"Fuck me gently with a chainsaw."

Please post guesses in the quiz thread.

1009. Cellar Door - 8/24/2000 12:29:40 AM

GAYS RULE!

1010. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 2:42:39 PM

Hey marshame--

Did you just become a member at epinions? If so, cool beans. Do you know anything about it?

1011. PelleNilsson - 8/24/2000 3:17:06 PM

Aytch

I checked out your review there too. Tell us a bit about it.

1012. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 3:43:55 PM

Pelle--

I stumbled across it a couple of months ago. The idea is to get consumers to write reviews of products and services. Each review is then rated by any and all other members at the site. The hope is that the best reviews rise to the top and this is generally the case. The site features reviews on practically everything and the best ones are quite good.

There are some interesting internal politics at epinions (cliques, revenge ratings, etc.)

The basic pay rate is from $0.01 to $0.03 per page view. Nobody's getting rich although I suspect that the prolific review-writers can pull down a hundred bucks or more a month. But I still don't have a good handle on just what's possible.

1013. CalGal - 8/24/2000 5:05:40 PM

I posted some reviews there a while ago, and have collected somewhere in the neighborhood of $2.50. But I didn't post on anything as big as Survivor--or any big movie at all, in fact.

1014. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 5:11:22 PM

cg--

Take a look at mangiotto's movie reviews on epinions. This guy's a killer.

1015. CalGal - 8/24/2000 5:13:12 PM

I think the best known guy at epinions for movies is Brian Koller, who somehow also manages to get his reviews linked into imdb.

1016. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 5:13:54 PM

A little more on epinions:

The site is pretty large. I'd guess that there are 500-1000 active writers. During the day, you can browse through the Just In section and new reviews get posted at a rate of about one every couple of seconds!

Epinions ain't perfect. Some of the old hands are torqued about the reduction of pay rates over the last couple of months. But since epinions is still running in the red, I'm not sure what else they could do. Besides, the higher rates were necessary in the early days because they were just getting off the ground. I think epinions is only about two years old, maybe a little less.

1017. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 5:16:59 PM

cg--

Interesting that you should mention Koller. He's not bad but mangiotto can eat his lunch.

You've hit on one of the big drivers at epinions. It's still far more important to have a large circle of friends than to write great reviews. Still, both are very important.

1018. CalGal - 8/24/2000 5:36:09 PM

I don't understand that business model, btw.

1019. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 5:39:23 PM

How so?

1020. CalGal - 8/24/2000 5:44:13 PM

Where does the money come from?

1021. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 5:48:52 PM

cg--

From what I've gleaned from the grapevine thus far, Epinions may be changing their business model from "internal hits" from their members to "external hits" from search engines and partner sites (like epinions.lycos).

I'm not sure this is accurate but it's what I've heard.

1022. CalGal - 8/24/2000 5:51:49 PM

Aytch,

In which case, the income of most of the writers will go waaaaaaay down.

But again--where is the money coming from? I can only think that they are using hit count to justify ad revenue, and we all know how well that has been working.

1023. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 5:52:00 PM

Their money comes from standard ad banner stuff and some sort of payback from links to other sites. But I don't think they're receiving much from this. It seems like a no-brainer to focus on external sites like lycos even if they beef up the internal model. The two are not mutually exclusive.

1024. AytchMan - 8/24/2000 6:07:31 PM

The writers have a couple of different sources of income. One gets a straight cash payoff from member hits (1 to 3 cents) plus a very mysterious Income Share which represents some portion of the external income. It's based somehow on non-member hits both from within the site and from the external links (like lycos). There's also some payoffs from referral of new members and partner sites (essentially linking in to epinions from one's home page and the like).

1025. Indiana Jones - 8/25/2000 10:45:25 AM

Would thread hosts consider deleting some of the "old news" on the "topics of interest" bar on the Mote front page?

Some of it is from '99. (I would say from the last millennium, but we have sticklers about).

1026. CalGal - 8/25/2000 1:18:08 PM

Anyone know if there's a place to find bluebook information online?

Also, I am thinking of getting a fun sporty car in the 20-30 range. They have ruined the Accord for me (sob). I was considering the Acura Integra. I just walked by the Transam Firebird, or whatever, which is exceptionally cool.

Feedback, suggestions, etc?

1027. Jonesatlaw - 8/25/2000 1:28:58 PM

CalGal- try this Kelly's Blue Book

1028. Jonesatlaw - 8/25/2000 1:31:56 PM

Calgal- here's the latest psychic way to pick the car that suits your personality-Caroscope

1029. Fraaankster - 8/25/2000 1:40:22 PM

From the, I don't care what people might think/I've come to trust the judgement and advice of the Motie gang. file:

Before I went off back east a few weeks ago, I wrote several checks which I meant to cover by transfering funds from my savings account. Well, I forgot to do that and left for the east coast without transfering the funds into my checking account, so as a consequence, about five checks bounced.

... I haven't bounced a check in some 20 years. :-(

What happens now ? Are the checks sent through again, or should I be expecting a call or letter from the businesses which I wrote the checks to asking me for payment ? Am I heading for any "nightmares" ?

Cal,

(swoon)

I just walked by the Transam Firebird...

Boy, those Rockford Files really did play with your head. ;-)

1030. CalGal - 8/25/2000 1:47:32 PM

Fraaaaaaank,

I bounce checks all the time. Never on purpose--in fact, my bank covers a huge amount of them and just fines me on the grounds that I am organizationally incompetent.

But as a result, I have a lot of experience with it.

If it's a grocery store, then run in right away with a new check, full of apologies. They press criminal charges, unfortunately. (No, this didn't happen to me.)

If it's a credit card, they'll just run it through again. No big.

If it's a mortgage payment, call and check with them. I think they generally send it back to you, and you won't know about it. Send in another check right away with late fees to cover it.

If it's a doctor or something like that, call them and ask where to send it and how much.

If it's a friend, grovel.

I think that covers it.

1031. CalGal - 8/25/2000 1:48:08 PM

Jones,

Both are great sites. Thanks!

1032. Indiana Jones - 8/25/2000 1:51:44 PM

Cal: What about a Prelude?

1033. Fraaankster - 8/25/2000 1:54:42 PM

Cal,

Thank you ( Is there any question still as to why I love this woman so much ? ) ;-)

All I received were notices with the amounts from the bank that they were returned. They didn't even list the check numbers...I'll figure it out, and no, I never write friends checks. Are you kidding ? ;-)

Time for brunch!

1034. CalGal - 8/25/2000 1:55:48 PM

I thought of the Prelude, because the old ones, at least, were a pretty car. Haven't seen the new ones--and I'm still in shock over what they did to the Accord, so I'm not sanguine.

But I've read on more than one occasion that Preludes are the weakest of the three Honda cars.

1035. ChristinO - 8/25/2000 1:58:52 PM

Frank,

You'll also want to make sure that the checks were actually returned to the merchants. Many times the bank will actually pay the check even though there aren't funds to cover it if you're a customer in good standing because they know they'll get their money out of you. There's also the fact that a vast number of checks will be put through twice before they're actually returned to the merchant as NSF.

Check with your bank to see if they paid any of the checks and then call the merchants.

1036. Fraaankster - 8/25/2000 2:00:54 PM

Cal,

I haven't read it ( I'm in a hurry at the moment ), but there is a Honda Prelude link at the bottom of this page.

You don't have to read about the male "G" spot et all ...


ttfn

1037. Indiana Jones - 8/25/2000 2:01:14 PM

Cal: I swear by Hondas. A friend of mine has had a Prelude for about 14 years, and I've had similar good experience with the cars (not the dealers, though).

(And this is from someone who believes in buy American when you can.)

A relative has an older Accord I'd love to get my hands on. She's driven it probably less than 5,000 miles/year and garaged it the rest of the time.

It's in practically mint condition.

I don't have firsthand knowledge about Preludes, but one would seem to meet the specs you're looking for.

1038. RosettaStone - 8/25/2000 2:02:16 PM

I've lost our dog.

Black cocker spanial, 4-years-old, named "Pepper." Last seen on Monday night when I came home from work and feed her in our fenced-in back yard. She's wearing all the right tags.

One of our two cats is also gone, but that happens all the time.

Called the Montgomery County Animal Shelter on Wednesay morning. No dog there. No cocker dog dead on the highway.

Waiting. Have not told the kids yet at the beach. Wife knows. Going back on Sunday for the week. Tonight I put posters on mailboxes with my neighbor's phone number on it. Why me? Why now?

BIG REWARD, IF FOUND.

1039. Fraaankster - 8/25/2000 2:03:12 PM

Oh, thanks, Christin!

Gotta start using the Mote box more often. I'll check it out. It all caught me by surprise as you can imagine.

In fact, I'm heading by the bank in a few. Thank you!

1040. CalGal - 8/25/2000 2:03:44 PM

Indy, I think Accords are the finest cars on the planet, but I am furious at them for rejecting my demographic (see the Slow thread). I would not have purchased one of their boxy, pre-1994 cars, and I won't purchase their newer models, which are boxy as well.

I like to look at my car, and get a kick out of thinking I drive something that looks cool. For five years, the Accord was a car that qualified. Sob.

1041. CalGal - 8/25/2000 2:05:28 PM

Oh, yes. That's what I was saying when I said the banks cover them. But usually that is included on the NSF notice. It will say either "The following check was returned" or "The following check was covered".

1042. ChristinO - 8/25/2000 2:23:47 PM

CG,

As you probably know everyone in my family is driving a Mistubishi. My mom and brother are both driving Mirages right now averaging about 5 billion miles a month between them. My brother's is about three years old and I don't think he's had to do anything to it other than change the oil and get regular tune-ups.

The sport coupe is the Eclipse and both Mom and Stepdad as well as a cousin have driven those and loved them. I don't know anyone driving a Spyder right now but they're pretty cool looking and I think they start around $23K.

They've got a website where you can put together all the options etc. and it'll price it out for you. Make sure your speakers are turned down though otherwise you'll bleed from the ears on the opening credits. Mitsubishi Motors

1043. robertjayb - 8/25/2000 4:45:51 PM

CalGal,

Consumer Reports (July issue) ranks the VW Passat above the Camry, Maxima, and Accord. It comes with a 2.8 V6 (190 hp) and a 5-speed manual tranny.

Zero to 60 in 7.8 seconds. My son drove one and liked it...and my cousin who married the orthodontist (thanks for reminding us, Aunt Hazel) has one, following a succession of BMWs.

1044. glendajean - 8/25/2000 4:54:10 PM

Cal -- you might check out the Ford Contour. European designed. Handles quite well.

1045. Fraaankster - 8/25/2000 6:10:06 PM

Cal,

Do it all! Find out what it will cost to insure versus other comparable models. Kick the tires. Slam the doors. Try the old Hugh Down's ball-bearing test. Test drive'em. Flirt with the salesman as you're haggling for a better price, etc., etc., etc.

For me, the most important criteria that would follow after outward design, horsepower and gas mileage, is how the interior dash is designed and set up. After all, you are likely to spend more time there -- in the driver's seat ( How old is Spawn ?) -- during the life of the car, and not under the hood or in the back seat, right ? ;-)

Is everything on the instrument panel at your disposal with handy, large easy to use knobs and buttons ? Ergonomics in other words. Does it have "idiot lights" or actual gauges that give you ample warning that your engine is low on oil or about to overheat ? Is there a place for you to place a cup of ice tea or coffee on ? Are the mirrors, or the A and B pillars in the way ?


Um...I'm sorry. I kinda got carried away there.

Anyway, you've probably thought of all of them already, right ?

1046. Indiana Jones - 8/25/2000 6:43:21 PM

Stone:

Define "big" reward.

1047. arkymalarky - 8/25/2000 9:13:52 PM

Cal,
I promise, once you drive a minivan you'll never go back to cool! ;-)

Frank, on the checks, no problem if you cover them quickly, unless you've written a $6 + change check at a certain Burger King in southern Arkansas with an idiotic manager who sends bounced checks to the prosecuting attorney and who hangs up on people when they try to politely explain that the bounce was due to a bank error, and then hangs up again when the customers call back and try to go into a rant over the phone, and who never seems to have gotten reprimanded, even though customer services for the company was called about five times....

sorry, I'm heading to my Happy Place now....


but the bank charges are murder when it isn't their fault (at least here).

1048. CalGal - 8/25/2000 9:32:54 PM

A minivan? My lord. I'd get a truck before I'd get a minivan or an RV.

But no, I want a cool car. I'm pretty sure.

1049. PelleNilsson - 8/26/2000 3:15:02 AM

It's strange that the US that is so advanced in many (most) things, is so backwards in some. I have a cheque book somewhere but I haven't used it in years.

1050. AytchMan - 8/26/2000 3:56:40 AM

Hi Pelle--

Presumably you use electronic transfers for everything? Rent, salary and the like?

I think we Yanks are a little less trusting. I'm not sure what other reasons there could be. EFT is certainly more convenient.

1051. PelleNilsson - 8/26/2000 4:42:51 AM

Yes, nowadays a lot of people use Internet banking. All the banks have it. You can also put details of your bills on a form, send it to the bank and they will be paid out of your account. An even more trusting form of payment is that you allow a company to bill your account directly (although you will be notified of the details).

1052. joezan - 8/26/2000 8:03:42 AM

Fraaaank:

... I haven't bounced a check in some 20 years.

The only check I ever bounced was to the IRS.

You wanna talk about scared!


There is a little store on the highway near here called The Pickle Barrel. They sell some groceries, do deer processing, and sell a whole lot of bait, beer, and lottery tickets.

Out front they have one of those portable electric signs on wheels, to announce specials, birthdays, EXPECTED LOTTO JACKPOT - whatever. They'll take a check from anyone as long as it's from a local bank, no ID, no questions asked.

But when they get a bad one, it's announced right up there with the lotto jackpot. Last week, the sign said RANDY ****** HAS 3 BAD CHECKS HERE!.

...Randy, as it turns out, is the owner's alky brother.

1053. CalGal - 8/26/2000 11:16:53 AM

I do almost everything online now, and it has really helped me a lot. I have had a lot fewer bounced checks, and a lot more ontime payments.

1054. CalGal - 8/26/2000 11:17:44 AM

Of course, even before I started doing money management online, I hadn't been using a checkbook for years. Far too much hassle, those things.

1055. Fraaankster - 8/26/2000 4:02:13 PM

Cal,

A minivan? My lord. I'd get a truck before I'd get a minivan or an RV.

Thank goodness you aren't leaning toward one of these things. There seems to be some cause and effect relationship going on with these things. I think they make a woman more fertile, because whenever I see one of these things, they are loaded with kids and soccer balls -- DON'T YOU DARE GET ONE !

Arky,

Burger Kings take checks ? Ouch, sounds like quite an ordeal for a couple of Whoppers. I prefer Arby's myself -- they have better curly fries and they also have rasberry ice tea. Yum, yum.

Joe,

The only check I ever bounced was to the IRS.

LOL ! Oooooooh, you really know who to bounce them to, huh ? I hope there weren't any serious repercussions over it ?

So just how far back did they research and audit your tax records ? ;-)

And remind to pay cash at The Pickle Barrel !

1056. CalGal - 8/27/2000 9:43:20 PM

All right, next car question. Man, I'm depressed.

My car got hurt last year, thanks to a pattern problem that Honda Accords suffer that they neglect to cover (and, btw, I'm annoyed by that and it's the only complaint I've ever had against them). It is running fine, and the tests say that it is okay, but the engine light is on. I can't get it to pass a smog test while the engine light is on. Even though the car is okay, the engine needs to be disembowelled at the cost of $1000 or so to find out what the problem is. The only way to make the engine light go away after that $1000--again, even though the car is fine--is to either lightly sand one cylinder to make the engine light not notice anything (cost: next to nothing) or rebuild the engine (cost: 3-5K).

I don't do used cars, period. It is time to get rid of this one, anyway. If I could find someone to disembowel the engine, find out it needs a sanding, sand it and then I can do what I like with the car, great. But if the engine has to be rebuilt (and can I say again how annoying it is that the car is running within spec but that the mere fucking EXISTENCE of that light means it fails the smog test?), then I want the car gone. I don't want it put back together, I never want to see it again.

Or I want to get rid of it as is--either by finding a buyer who knows it's a great car and can fix it themselves for cheap, or by trading it in on a new car.

Tradeins I get. But it seems to me that if I found a mechanic who buys cars that it would be worth my while to have him disembowel it, tell me how much to fix it, and either buy it from me on the spot or I pay to have it fixed.

Then I have a car with increased tradein value, or I can sell it--or keep it for a while longer until I find the car of my dreams. Whatever.

1057. CalGal - 8/27/2000 9:43:35 PM

So my question is, how do you find a mechanic like this? Do they list? Is it a matter of luck? I know they exist, because it's how I got rid of my very first car, and the mechanic who looked at my car last year and told me my options was interested. He left that shop, though, and now I don't know where to look.

1058. robertjayb - 8/27/2000 10:13:03 PM

CalGal,

seems you are not alone:

Honda engine light

1059. CalGal - 8/27/2000 10:15:49 PM

Mother FUCKERS.

1060. CalGal - 8/27/2000 10:16:24 PM

I mean, thanks.

I just thought I was fairly alone with this, and here the bastards are doing it to EVERYONE.

1061. joezan - 8/27/2000 11:19:34 PM

Get a Subaru Outback Wagon. Very, very cool car. Sharp-looking, quick, and they go forever with very little maintenance. Oh - and they're AWD, of course.

I was going to buy one in '98, but got a deal on a new Caravan that I couldn't pass up.

1062. CalGal - 8/27/2000 11:22:29 PM

A wagon? Christ. You don't mean an SUV, do you?

No, I want a sporty cool car, thanks so much. If you take Jones' quiz, you'll see my demographic mapped out before you get too far. My car is a reflection of me. Or at least the me I wanna be.

1063. joezan - 8/27/2000 11:28:24 PM

Outbacks transcend your trite stereotype of the station wagon. They are not your mom's grocery-getter.

In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to see anyone even lugging their kids around in one. They are too cool for that.

But, SUV, you ask?

Sort of.

But with good gas mileage, and a stance which takes up about as much space as your (formerly) beloved Honda.

A perfect car, really.

1064. robertjayb - 8/27/2000 11:30:04 PM

.
Well, hey! I read last week that Porsche is doubling production of 911 Turbos. Got any place you can go one-ninety?

1065. CalGal - 8/27/2000 11:31:57 PM

I might not rant as vehemently as Cart and LadyC on the iniquities of SUVs, but my heart is as one with theirs. Besides, Spawn would kill me.

BobbyJ, I can't justify Porsche dollars yet. But I'm hoping that I'll be able to manage a BMW convertible in about two more cars. Before I'm 50, anyway, I think I'll have the wherewithal to not feel guilty about it.

I did note your Passat reference, though, and although I am leeeeeery about VWs, I will be checking it out.

1066. joezan - 8/27/2000 11:45:26 PM

Cal:

1067. joezan - 8/27/2000 11:46:16 PM

OOOops!


Sorry.

1068. CalGal - 8/27/2000 11:48:03 PM

Gawd. Maybe it's sporty for a wagon, but it's still a wagon.

I only have the one kid, for heavens sakes. And he'd kill me if I got some sort of "mom" car.

1069. joezan - 8/27/2000 11:50:34 PM

Oh, please!

Next to an Accord, this thing looks like it's doing 80 when it's standing still, ferpetesake!

1070. CalGal - 8/27/2000 11:52:37 PM

Not the Accords from 94-98. They were neat cars.

But then, the beauty of the Accord was that it was practical and looked kind of cool. But they have deliberately removed the cool factor. I weep for my loss.

It was at the outside of the cool spectrum, made acceptable by its other fine qualities. If I am to go cool on the next car, it must exceed the Accord on coolness, since it can't come close in quality.

Except for that damn engine light.

1071. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:05:25 AM

Cal:

Accords were never - do you hear me? - never, ever considered cool. They have always been, first and foremost, "practical".

Like comfy, well-made shoes.

Friggin' Californians - no sense of style.

1072. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:07:36 AM

Talk about your grocery-getters - Spawn doesn't consider your Accord cool, does he?

1073. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:11:47 AM

Um. Duh. Did you not read what I just said? I loved the Accord because they changed it from the boxy earlier style (which was dreadful) and the two door coupes were nicely shaped. It is wrong to say that the 94-98 version wasn't at all cool--it was a neatlooking car. But the whole point was that I could combine sensible with something that didn't offend my sensibilities.

Now I can't. So I'm dropping sensible and moving wholly to cool.

1074. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:16:30 AM

Yea, I read what you said.

But the Accord, regardless its shape, has always been a family car. In the automobile department, you are cool-impaired.

Trust me.

Get the Subaru.

1075. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:17:21 AM

Oh, we love the Accord. We've always wanted to go cooler, but given my intolerance for guilt, it's been the perfect way to settle.



This is the 4 door version--the coupe is much sleeker. It's not ultra cool, but for a "sensible" car, it's awesome.

1076. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:19:33 AM

Joe,

Sorry. In a world where I can buy a Firebird, the Subaru can go sit on some dad's doorstep and look boring.

I am most certainly not cool-impaired in cars.

In fact, the Accord was so successful in keeping people from moving to Acuras that Honda deliberately boxed it out again. Which means that I wasn't the only person who found it a happy combo. Honda had to kick my demographic out, so they made it boring again.

1077. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:21:29 AM

After Firebird.....

OR an Acura, or a number of other sports cars, or for that matter I can even step into a low-end BMW, if I can bear the notion of low-end. (which I probably can't).

A Subaru station wagon? Fuck that noise, dude.

1078. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:22:15 AM

What the hell's that, the Limited Edition LA Taco Lowrider Accord?

1079. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:23:28 AM

???

No, it's the 4-door EX, I think.

1080. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:26:20 AM

What's all that crap on it?

Give me a Cavalier and 20 minutes in Conversions Plus, and I can buy enough plastic to dress it up to look just like that thing.

1081. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:34:51 AM

Well, I don't like the spoiler. Mine doesn't have it. But I'm talking about the lines in general.

Cavalier? Gawd. They're too ugly. Very boxy. I don't like boxy.

1082. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:36:51 AM

BTW, I just discovered that Accord models come in "generations". The generation I loved was the fifth generation.

Sob.

1083. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:43:08 AM

That's my point.

You see all that stuff - not just the spoiler -the ground effects, the windshield visor, the custom wheels (and, if I'm not mistaken, the extended nose)?

That's all after-market junk - the stuff kids blow 2 months salary on to look make them look cool.

My Cavalier remark refers to the fact that once you put all that staff on, the actual car is indistinguishable.

Do you realize how many BMW 5 series cars you see that are actually late 80's-early 90's Nissan Maximas?

The Outback was born cool.

1084. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:44:00 AM

Ignore the first look...

1085. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:45:13 AM

...come on - just 2 more posts and these margins are fixed.

1086. joezan - 8/28/2000 12:45:40 AM

..for me, anyway.

1087. PelleNilsson - 8/28/2000 12:39:16 PM

CalGal

I drove an Accord like the one in your pic during our last stay in Jordan. All-black, all-cool.

If you go for a BMW you simply must have a 6-cylinder, else why bother? The smallest of these is called 320 here in Europe. I had one and I loved it.

1088. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:43:44 PM

Pelle,

Yes, that is my issue with the BMW. I don't want one that's so low-end I feel like a cheapskate. I'd rather get a high end model of something less expensive. I'll be pricing them.

But I still need a solution to my other problem--how do I get rid of my current car or figure out what is wrong with it? Where do I find mechanics like that?

1089. PelleNilsson - 8/28/2000 12:49:37 PM

CalGal

Can't help you there. I missed the origin of this discussion so I have no idea what your problem is.

1090. CalGal - 8/28/2000 12:54:29 PM

Pelle, see Message # 1056.

1091. rubberducky - 8/28/2000 1:32:55 PM

disconnect the light from the dash

hey, not ethical, but it'll get you past that stupid CA inspection

1092. CalGal - 8/28/2000 2:02:12 PM

I've already thought of that, but it's impossible to reach.

1093. PsychProf - 8/28/2000 2:05:47 PM

The Outback is a very popular model for college students. Lucky them...

1094. Thoughtful - 8/28/2000 2:09:13 PM

I have a '99 Acura 3.2 TL and I just love it. Best car I ever owned. It's bigger than what I was used to, but it has an incredibly tight turning ratio, most definitely a plus for someone who spends as much time as I do parking in shopping center lots. Many wonderful features and yet the price was quite affordable. And no Firestone tires! }:-)

1095. CalGal - 8/28/2000 2:20:50 PM

Thoughtful, the Acura is at the top of my list. I was amazed at how affordable it is.

But I tell you, the Pontiac Firebird, or whatever, is way cool.

1096. Thoughtful - 8/28/2000 3:09:40 PM

I will never buy another GM product after our olds cutlass started falling apart at age 3. I try to avoid all american made cars. My Mercury tracer is an excellent vehicle, but it's really a Mazda made in Mexico. My Acura has been flawless and the care it receives from the service dept is terrific. I'm a very happy customer.

1097. CalGal - 8/28/2000 3:15:32 PM

Yes, I know. In the end my bias against American cars will undoubtedly win out. Besides, even with Honda's failure on this engine light thingy, I love their cars.

On the other hand, I never like keeping a car more than three years. (g)

1098. glendajean - 8/28/2000 3:19:59 PM

When I lived in DC, our Honda flunked the emission test. We took it to the dealer, and they found no problem. They asked us if we had idled a long time before the inspection. Yes, we had sat in line for about an hour (non untypical for DC which only has two inspection stations for the entire city).

They told us to put an engine cleaner in, drive out on the freeway for an hour or so, and especially don't idle prior to inspection.

We passed easily.

The next time inspection came around, I went to the local auto parts store to find the cleaner to put in the car. The clerk pointed to something called "Pass Inspection" or something colorful to that effect. "All the cabbies use it," he said. If you've seen DC cabs, you know that they are often old wrecks kept together by wire.

We passed again.

1099. PelleNilsson - 8/28/2000 3:23:16 PM

CalGal

ducky makes sense. You must be able to find some shady workshop that can dismantle the dashboard and disconnect that light.

1100. CalGal - 8/28/2000 3:28:43 PM

GJ,

But my car runs clean. It's the damn light.

Pelle,

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. But how to find such a person? ANd would that person also just buy my car off of me? I know they will use the light against me in a tradein.

1101. PelleNilsson - 8/28/2000 3:45:00 PM

CalGal

That light is turned on by some electronic box. Suppose that's where the problem is, not in the engine?

1102. joezan - 8/28/2000 6:32:36 PM

Cal:

Disconnect the light.

This won't help, but in a related story:

My favorite car ever was a 1978 Celica GT, which I bought used in '81.
This was the the second year of the second generation Celica (previously they'd resembled miniature Mustangs), and it was the only year they made the famous "California-style" nose - no grill, with the hood curving down between the two sets of front lights.

Very cool.

Anyway, the car was great - dependable, fun to drive, quick. After two years, however, it wouldn't pass emissions. I brought it to a couple of places, and they tried some things that didn't work. Now, I'm past the test date, and forced to drive my beater - a '72 Dodge Dart.

Not cool.

So I call my cousin Angelo, who can swindle a rat out of his cheese.

Set da fuckin' idle at 2500 RPM, go pass da test, and call me in da mawnin', he says after about 2 seconds.

So I do.

I turn up the idle, go rolling into the inspection station doing 30 MPH without my foot on the gas, and I'm squealing my brakes just trying to slow down.

Idle's up kinda high, aint it? asks the mechanic.

Yea, well, um... she's running rough and I hadda turn it up so she won't stall...(gulp), I reply.

Hokay, bring her in, he says.

Bingo.

I pass.

1103. MsIvoryTower - 8/29/2000 9:22:20 AM

Entering this discussion late, but hey....


Calgal, re: Acura's.

Contrary to Thoughtful's experience, my Legend was a nightmare. I bought it in 1990, took excellent care of it, but at around 50,000 miles it began having major problems. I ended up spending over $5,000 in repairs before I finally realized that this "wasn't" a good car, and I needed to replace it. I bought my Rav4 at the end of 1998, traded my Legend in for $4,500 and was glad to have gotten rid of it.

By the way, the final insult was that I'd spent over $1,000 that summer trying to get rid of an erratic overheating problem and it still wasn't fixed when I traded it in. The car was 8 years old, but only had 76,000 miles on it when I let it go.

FYI, I will never buy another Acura product again, and will not consider a Honda for many years to come.

1104. Uzmakk - 8/29/2000 11:31:28 AM

The Suburu Legacy Wagon is the Ultimate in cool cars. Naturally I own one. All wheel drive, 2000lb towing capacity, visible coolness factor - high enough.

1105. theDiva - 8/29/2000 11:45:14 AM

The Lord of the Steppe returns. His people rejoice.

1106. Thoughtful - 8/29/2000 11:54:04 AM

calgal, I missed the "light" issue, but check the owners manual...sometimes there's a way to reset maintenance check lights or some such things.

1107. bubbaette - 8/29/2000 12:28:00 PM

I have a 94 Mustang with near 80,000 miles on it. Mike changes the oil twice a year and the dang thing runs like a sewing machine. I don't think he's even had to tune it. Never had to have any repairs made to it, though the clutch is a little balky going into reverse.

1108. joezan - 8/29/2000 10:25:43 PM

Oooh...

...that reminds me.

Cal, if you're even considering a Firebird, go look at a Mustang. If you're willing to part with a bundle (but less than a low-end BMW) the Mustang Saleen is about as cool as you can get.

1109. CalGal - 8/29/2000 10:31:26 PM

Thanks for all the feedback, but right now I'm in the middle of having an anxiety attack because I don't know what to do with this car.

Worrisome.

1110. EricCartman - 8/29/2000 10:37:09 PM

Those new Firechickens and Mustang Celines are very cool looking, but they're about as practical for real-life stuff as a Corvette or a Porsche. Not to mention how much they'd whack you for registration in CA.

Still, if you also own a small truck for getting groceries and such, those sports cars are indeed sweet.

1111. joezan - 8/29/2000 10:38:17 PM

I hear you.

And, on second thought, disconnecting the light is not a wise idea if you're planning on selling. Anyone with any brains will notice its absence as soon as they start the car.

I don't suppose you have some trusty neighborhhood mechanic you occasionally use?

Nah - you probably use the dealership faithfully, huh?

1112. CalGal - 8/29/2000 10:43:58 PM

I rarely go to mechanics or dealers. My cars don't generally give me any trouble. I'm a bitch on brakes, and run through them rapidly, but that's about it. That's why I feel such a sense of betrayal.

1113. joezan - 8/29/2000 10:56:30 PM

What it sounds like to me is you need to adjust your engine to burn a bit leaner - but just to get you through the inspection.

Of course, back in '78 cars still had carburetors, so it was a simple matter of turning a screw. With electronic fuel injection it's a whole nother ball game. But it can be done. And un-done.

I know this sounds crass and, um, un-pc - but you could probably get something like that done at a repair shop in a Mexican neighborhood. They'll charge you what they feel like charging you, but it'll be a whole lot cheaper than the alternative.

Just go in, explain your problem, and innocently mention that someone told you that there is a little adjustment that can be made...

1114. joezan - 8/29/2000 11:08:08 PM

Oh! And now that I think of it, have you tried any of those gasoline additives that clean out your fuel injectors?

They build up crap in them, and after awhile this can screw up your mix.

Try it - it'd be a very cheap fix if it works.

1115. arkymalarky - 8/30/2000 7:08:36 PM

I always thought my Saturn SL2 looked cool, and my kids liked it--I could have sold it to one of them if the engine hadn't blown up. It was a practical and comfortable car.

One of my students got a brand new Mustang ragtop convertible last year and I had to drive it this summer, just up the street to pick up some pizza, and I couldn't see a dadgum thing. I would hate to have to drive it full time. I guess you get used to it, but I was claustrophobic. The Saturn had much better visibility.

On engine lights, inspections, etc, AR doesn't have inspections any more, but with so many little rural shadetree-type stations inspections were a joke anyway. A former principal of mine used to drive a ragged-out old Datsun to work which had a windshield that looked like a rip-rap rock had been dropped on it--completely shattered from side to side and top to bottom--and he always passed inspection. Can replacing an air filter make an engine light go off? Ours has been on since we were in CO, but as I said, with no inspections, who cares? I'll get to it when I get my four months late state income tax filed and my one month out of date drivers license renewed.

1116. Jonesatlaw - 8/31/2000 5:06:57 AM

CalGal- for cool the Outback is a good choice. The PT Cruiser has cool written all over it. It is one of the coolest looking things to hit the road in years. If you want to take it a notch higher- get a flame paintjob and a turbo. You'll still spend less than a Firechicken, and have coolness and practicality in spades.

1117. IrvingSnodgrass - 8/31/2000 5:11:14 AM

Arky:
I live in a third world country, too (like AR), and we don't have vehicle inspections, either. I wish we did, though, because the streets are infested with those James Bond buses (the ones emitting smoke screens and oil slicks).

1118. arkymalarky - 8/31/2000 7:00:28 PM

Haha.

"I wish we did, though, because the streets are infested with those James Bond buses (the ones emitting smoke screens and oil slicks)."

We had those when we had inspections, except here we call them billet trucks. They just knew what "qualified" mechanic to take them to. At least they kind of act as a combination insecticide/defoliant (very handy in AR). Now without inspections it's just sort of like we've dropped the pretenses, though actually a policeman can stop anyone for anything like that and ticket them. I'm sure that as often as I see those billet-haulers being stopped by policemen on the road (read, never) they must have to pay piles of tickets. Must be what's keeping them from being able to afford to get those rattle-traps fixed.

1119. phillipdavid - 9/1/2000 12:06:34 AM

Does anyone have the text for the J.R.R. Tolkein poem Mythopoeia? Rivendell posted it several years ago, and I thought I had saved it...but, alas, I can't find it now and sure wish I had it.

1120. robertjayb - 9/1/2000 12:29:26 AM

.
phillipdavid,

try this: John Ronald Reuel Tolkien

1121. PelleNilsson - 9/1/2000 3:16:20 AM

Courtesy of the CIA a handy table for conversion between the metric and imperial systems. It includes some of the more unusual imperial measures too (like hand=4 inches, used to measure the height of horses).

1122. benwolf - 9/1/2000 3:35:03 AM

John Ronald Reuel Tolkien
http://www.elformen.hotmail.ru/Mythopoeia.html
The Web page could not be displayed

1123. PelleNilsson - 9/1/2000 3:36:20 AM

It worked for me (just before I posted #1121).

1124. Stumbo - 9/1/2000 3:43:40 AM

This brings up a question that has bothered me for a while.

Every place I've looked, the inch-to-centimeter ratio is given as 2.54 -- only 3 significant digits. Since the two measures evolved independently, this seems like more than a coincidence. (Compare, say, pounds vs. kilograms: in either direction, a lot more significant digits are provided.)

Exactly when did inches get rounded off in metric terms -- and, more interestingly, why weren't pounds and the like rounded off at the same time?

1125. Stumbo - 9/1/2000 3:44:55 AM

"This" = #1121.

1126. Stumbo - 9/1/2000 3:59:16 AM

(Perhaps some other unit of weight -- equalling either n pounds or 1/n-th of a pound, for some integer n having a prime factor other than 2 or 5 -- got rounded off instead. But if so, what is it?)

1127. PelleNilsson - 9/1/2000 5:00:29 AM

Stumbo

It's unfortunate that you should have mentioned this, because now I'm bothered too.

I prefer to think that it's coincidence, i.e. that the "true value" is something like 2.540135..... If not it is by intention. Since the centimeter is immutable, this implies that, at some point in history, the inch was redefined, meaning essentially that the imperial measures became defined in terms of metric units. I see that as unlikely.

1128. cmboyce - 9/1/2000 12:11:08 PM

The MacMillan Dictionary of Measurement (one of my favorite reference books), consistently refers to an inch as = 25.40 cm, though of course this doesn't preclude Pelle's "2.540135..... ", in fact, imo, it makes it more likely.Going the other way, it declares a cm to be 0.3937008 (at least as unlikely to be a completed number, I'd guess), which, multiplied by 2.54, does yield exactly one.

Probably just part of the conspiracy, though.

1129. phillipdavid - 9/1/2000 12:18:02 PM

robertjayb,
(and benwolf)

Thank you so much!

1130. PelleNilsson - 9/2/2000 7:46:43 AM

TableTalk is down.

1131. dusty - 9/2/2000 8:50:41 AM

TT is back up

1132. OhioSTOPAS - 9/2/2000 9:37:45 AM

Hi, Dusty, wherever you are!

1133. CalGal - 9/2/2000 9:43:20 AM

Ohio,

I was flying home from Columbus yesterday, and on the first leg sat next to a blonde woman who was going to California to visit her sister. We both dozed most of the flight, but chitchatted back and forth throughout.

When the flight ended, I said it was nice to meet her--we exchanged names and then I asked where she worked. She worked at a bank and the name sounded very familiar. Then it clicked.

I said, in astonishment, I know a guy who works there! I gave her your name and she described you (young Sean Connery) and I said that's him! And she knows you, too! She hasn't worked with you directly, but other people on the staff.

Her name is Gail.

Put that in the category of very small world, huh?

1134. OhioSTOPAS - 9/2/2000 9:48:55 AM

(in Mel Allen voice) How about that!

1135. CalGal - 9/2/2000 9:57:01 AM

Gosh. I expected more fuss than that. How about being impressed that I remembered? (sniff)

1136. OhioSTOPAS - 9/2/2000 10:04:28 AM

Hey, I don't do my Mel Allen impression for just anyone!

(By the way, I hope you told Gail that I NEVER post to the Mote during business hours!)

1137. CalGal - 9/2/2000 10:13:25 AM

I didn't even mention the Mote. I figured it was safer to let her think we were having an affair.

1138. OhioSTOPAS - 9/2/2000 1:55:45 PM

Ha! Good thinking.

And thank you for diminishing your reputation to enhance mine!

1139. AceofSpades - 9/2/2000 9:12:07 PM

Football Pool

Well, Opening Day is here and we don't have a Football Pool going yet.

But everyone who's interested should check here and the Sports Thread for updates & etc. Hopefully we'll get it all together by next week.

1140. EricCartman - 9/3/2000 7:49:45 PM

You know, I've been wondering if we were going to do that this year. Participation was spotty last season, which can be frustrating.

1141. Dusty - 9/6/2000 2:04:55 PM

TT is down. Yet again.

Are they up more often than they are down?

1142. theDiva - 9/6/2000 2:11:57 PM

(decides not to make the obvious and tasteless joke.)

1143. JudithAtHome - 9/6/2000 2:15:57 PM

Dusty:

It's not down for me....I've been posting off and on all morning.

1144. Dusty - 9/7/2000 11:10:33 AM

JudithAtHome

My bad. There was some sort of problem - my link returned a page with a single character on it, but I made the mistake of simply trying to refresh the link, instead of trying again. Immediately after posting the notice, I tried a new attempt rather than a refresh, and it worked.

1145. CalGal - 9/7/2000 11:18:44 AM

Hey, I've never moved posts before. How do you indicate what thread you want them moved to?

1146. theDiva - 9/7/2000 11:21:01 AM

isn't there a list with the destination threads?

1147. CalGal - 9/7/2000 11:22:34 AM

Oh, fer crissakes. I'm the worst goddamn user on the planet.

1148. theDiva - 9/7/2000 11:22:57 AM

hahahahahaha

1149. CalGal - 9/7/2000 11:23:11 AM

That was a cranky thanks.

Actually, it is a bit confusing, because the error message takes you to a different page. Had it just stayed on the page, I would have figured it out.

1150. CalGal - 9/7/2000 11:24:32 AM

One other question--if you move a series, does it stay in order? Or should they be moved one at a time?

1151. rubberducky - 9/7/2000 11:25:37 AM

they stay in order

1152. theDiva - 9/7/2000 1:07:32 PM

"That was a cranky thanks."

I figgered.

1153. DocBrown - 9/7/2000 3:48:48 PM

I got no takers in the One Year Anniversary thread, so I'll ask here:

Does anyone know a good resource for information on Internet Ettiquette?

How about Internet Ethics?

I need the information because I am teaching my engineering class the basics of Internet life. When I turn them loose doing web research I want them to stay out of trouble.

I have found a handful of sites using search engines, but I am not satisfied with their quality and relevance.

1154. Wombat - 9/7/2000 3:53:34 PM

Back when I was checking out user groups (in 1996) there were a number of netiquette FAQs. Since the level of discourse made Table Talk look like a collection of Nobel Prize winners, I haven't been back, and do not know if they still exist. It might be worth a try.

1155. CalGal - 9/7/2000 3:57:02 PM

There is no absolute on Internet etiquette, is there? Generally, every site will have a link like our RoE that describes the standards for that site. It won't help much, but it will be a place to start.

1156. CalGal - 9/7/2000 3:57:25 PM

Oh, and Internet Policies would be a fascinating course, I think.

1157. DocBrown - 9/7/2000 4:22:41 PM

Wombat, where?

CalGal, thanks. Did you come up with a solutiojn to your car problem?

You might want to go to the Car Questions booth at CarTalk. There are lots of shadetree mechanics' brains to pick there.

1158. Wombat - 9/7/2000 4:34:44 PM

I'm sorry Doc, they were called newsgroups. One used to be able to go directly to them on the older versions of Netscape. I have no idea how to do it now.

1159. CalGal - 9/7/2000 4:53:07 PM

Doc,

Car update: I couldn't get rid of my car with the engine light on, so I bit the bullet and called three different mechanics. Took it in yesterday and the damage apparently will only be $1300. They thought they were giving me bad news, and were confused when I said, "Wow! Really? That's fantastic!"

Bad news is that I'm coping without a car for five days.

1160. robertjayb - 9/7/2000 6:12:43 PM

.
Geez!

I hope that at least you got an Al Gore style smooch.

1161. CalGal - 9/7/2000 6:15:09 PM

Well, I had been told by everyone else that the only way to fix it was to rebuild the engine, for 3-5K. The car was hurt last year when the balance shaft seal came off--I knew that fixing it would require engine work, which is always expensive. So I figure a thousand is getting off light. Plus, I can then drive it for a while and replace it when I'm actually ready to. I had originally wanted to try to keep it for five years at least.

1162. stostosto - 9/7/2000 6:18:23 PM

Cal

Bicycling is good for you. I go to work by bike every day. And you know how extremely fit I am.

1163. CalGal - 9/7/2000 6:26:17 PM

I am going to try it tomorrow. I had a 10 o'clock meeting today--or was supposed to--so I cabbed it again, which is absurdly expensive.

1164. robertjayb - 9/7/2000 7:02:13 PM

.
CalGal,

So I figure a thousand is getting off light.

Probably so. I was thing it was a sensor/fuel system problem.

1165. robertjayb - 9/7/2000 7:03:18 PM

.
Thinging, that is.

1166. AceofSpades - 9/10/2000 12:23:39 PM

Spreads for this week's football pool have been posted in PP's Sports Bar.

You've got thirty-three minutes left to make your picks.

1167. PelleNilsson - 9/10/2000 4:11:49 PM

This is for Moties who whish to publish scanned pictures, documents from subscription sites. and what have you, and who have not gone to the trouble of registering with Geocities or a similar site.

I have opened an account with Geocities for all Moties.

URL: www.GeoCities.com

Identity: themoties

Password: kissme

Open the File Manager to upload your files. I suggest you create a personal sub-directory so that not everything gets mixed up

If you want assistance send me an e-mail

1168. Indiana Jones - 9/13/2000 12:37:59 PM

Both Pelle and ChristinO have signed on as Mote moderators to assist wabbit.

1169. CalGal - 9/14/2000 5:43:21 PM

MY CAR IS READY!!!!

And it passed the smog test, which they did without me asking. Lordy, it might be a good day!

1170. Don S. - 9/14/2000 11:53:12 PM

Well, I can't top that last announcement for relevance, but here's mine:

I am now in synch: Don S. here and in TableTalk.

Happy reading!

1171. joezan - 9/15/2000 12:07:51 AM

Cal:

Hey - did I miss something?

What'd they do?

What'd it cost?

Did you take it to a Mexican chop shop, like I suggested?

1172. CalGal - 9/15/2000 12:20:11 AM

No, I couldn't take it to a chopshop. I didn't know where any were, and I'm not the sort who looks shady enough for people to volunteer the information.

I ended up finding a mechanic (see 1159). It turns out that when my balance shaft seal fell off last year, some hmm..rapidly moving part heated up a bit much because there was no oil for lubrication? But if it was bad, it would have fused and stuck. This didn't happen, jsut a bit of it broke off. So the exhaust was inefficient, maybe?

Anyway, they said that they couldn't guarantee that the "engine bottom" wasn't damaged--in order, when you lose your oil immediately, the engine clanks, then this problem happens, then the cylinders scratch. So they were surprised to see problem 2 without problem 1. But since it was just a tiny chunk of the cylinder, they said it's probably fine.

1173. joezan - 9/15/2000 12:27:16 AM

Cal:

And it passed the smog test, which they did without me asking.

You might consider having that smog test somewhere else before your guarantee on the engine work is up (probably 30 days).

1174. CalGal - 9/15/2000 12:29:59 AM

Well, they didn't guarantee the "bottom", whatever that is.

1175. joezan - 9/15/2000 12:52:21 AM

Cal:

No - what I'm saying is they knew you were having problems passing the smog test. Their explanantion of why that happened sounds logical, since you'd be losing compression and blowing oil with a scratched cylinder.

It's just that anyone can slap an inspection sticker on your window and tell you that you passed. You didn't happen to mention that you were thinking of selling it, did you?

1176. CalGal - 9/15/2000 12:56:11 AM

Honey. This is California. They hook the car up to a computer and the results of the test are automatically sent to the DMV. No slapping of a sticker.

1177. joezan - 9/15/2000 12:58:20 AM

So they couldn't, say, hook up a different car to the computer and render a good reading, then slap the sticker on your car?

1178. CalGal - 9/15/2000 1:05:56 AM

There's no sticker. And no, they couldn't.

Besides, this is a chichi Honda mechanic shop. You should have seen their front office.

1179. joezan - 9/15/2000 1:12:30 AM

Cal:

I don't understand. What I hear you saying is that this smog test computer somehow uniquely identifies your car.

Sticker or not, this would require a technology in the car's computer system that was not widely available a few years ago. How could an older car - say, pre-'90 - pass the test?

1180. CalGal - 9/15/2000 1:18:37 AM

Joe,

I imagine they type in the VIN and the type and such. I know that there are probably smog checkers who are, er, generous. But I'm pretty sure that car swapping isn't generally done. I know for sure it isn't done on newer cars, so for me it's a moot point.

1181. joezan - 9/15/2000 1:22:26 AM

Well okay then.

But sell it pronto.

1182. joezan - 9/15/2000 1:23:27 AM

I'm off to bed.

G'nite, all.

1183. PelleNilsson - 9/18/2000 3:03:36 AM

In my first act as vice moderator I have made RickNelson host of Poetry. He volunteered some time ago to general support. I guess it was forgotten in the general anniversery excitement.

1184. Indiana Jones - 9/19/2000 9:20:26 AM

I like the title "vice moderator" but wouldn't "moderator of vice" add clarity?

1185. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 1:13:31 PM

Why go for the bitter cup of clarity when the sweet drink of ambiguity is there?

In my second act of vice I will purge obsolete news items. This will take place in one hour from now, during which time pleas for mercy will be entertained.

1186. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 3:32:43 PM

Purge accomplished. Thread hosts are encouraged to add fresh news items.

1187. Indiana Jones - 9/23/2000 12:20:19 AM

My email account seems to be on the fritz, so here are responses to some Mote emails I've received.

Nostradamus: Your account appears to be working.

ReimerReason: Please email me the username you used to register. I don't see that handle in the list.

Joezan: Assuming your friend is someone other than ReimerReason, please have her email me.

BTW, it is likely I will be offline for several days soon. I will try to post a warning but may not have the opportunity. So if someone has a password "emergency" you might try one of the other volunteers.

1188. joezan - 9/23/2000 12:22:41 AM

Thanx, Indy. I was just coming in to ask...

1189. rubberducky - 9/24/2000 12:31:56 PM

Re:Message # 1185, PelleNilsson.

In my second act of vice I will purge obsolete news items.

just a question. i've been waiting for you to delete this on your own, but you don't appear to want to. so, the question is this, why is The Extremely Concise History of the Pathans link still in the Topics of Interest listing when it is something from the archives?

how is that not "obsolete"?

1190. PelleNilsson - 9/24/2000 2:01:45 PM

duckyboy

It is indeed obsolete. I did not delete it because of sentimental reason and because, by clicking, curious newcomers can enjoy some of the best travel writing we've seen here.

1191. Nostradamus - 9/24/2000 2:03:20 PM

I think this pseudo-worship has gone on long enough.

If you want someone to worship, worship me, Baby.

1192. rubberducky - 9/24/2000 4:56:09 PM

i see, Pelle

thanks for answering, i assumed it was sentimental

1193. Indiana Jones - 9/24/2000 6:02:30 PM

Fellow Motiers, as I've been hinting at for a while now, I will have to take an indefinite hiatus from the Mote.

I would like to request that someone else take over the gatekeeping ASAP and hereby relinquish my hosting of Tunnel of Love/Tower of Lust.

I've enjoyed reading the thoughts of many of the people here, you're quite a bunch of folks, and a few of you I'll truly miss. I hope that should the day come when I can pass this way again, the Mote will still be here, and I'll find at least one or two of the old gang still posting. If not, at least we'll always have Paris.

My IndianaJones@resourceful.com address still works, should anyone need to contact me for any reason until then. (Like should you all decide to shut down the place and have a yard sale on butt-waxing equipment and the girly posters in PP's Sports Bar.)

Diva: I'll be sending you an email via your registered Mote address, so be looking for it.

To the rest of my fellow Motiers, in the words of the great RN, we don't really a good word for it in English, so au revoir.

1194. Nostradamus - 9/24/2000 6:05:14 PM

Well, since Indy so graciously offered to take Religion from me when I was being fucked with, I'd be happy to return the favor now that he's off to greener pastures.

1195. rubberducky - 9/24/2000 9:14:06 PM

i'd 2nd that

two reasons: (a) Tower/Tunnel has been practically host-less for weeks now so it couldn't possibly be any worse and (b) i'd like to see more of this "wit" i've heard so much about (all from Nos, of course).

1196. CalGal - 9/24/2000 11:24:08 PM

The last time Nos hosted a thread he decided to delete every post of one particular person and refused to stop, even when asked not to. He then left in a huff and a pout when he was suspended for a day.

1197. SnowOwl - 9/25/2000 12:04:49 AM

I'm sorry to see you go, Indy, and I wish you well in whatever you're doing. I hope you'll be back in the not too distant future.

1198. Nostradamus - 9/25/2000 12:04:53 AM

I was told when I was given the thread that I would be given broad discretion/editorial control including the right to ban specific posters. I exercised that right and was suspended for doing so. I left in a huff because I was suspended without cause and both the thread in question and a completely unrelated subthread I hosted were taken away from me. If the current Mote policy is that NO host is allowed to ban specific posters from his/her thread, I will happily abide by that policy but it was certainly NOT the policy at the time.

1199. Nostradamus - 9/25/2000 12:07:18 AM

At any rate, subsequent events have largely removed that problem and the poster in question (Rosie) and I have no more than a slight degree of antagonism towards one another.

1200. Nostradamus - 9/25/2000 12:12:46 AM

At any rate, that decision wasn't debated in the Mote, it occurred after an extensive email exchange between wabbit and myself. If anyone wants to read that exchange so that you may judge for yourself, email me at jonathanferguson@sprint.ca

1201. Nostradamus - 9/25/2000 12:13:37 AM

At any rate.

==):-)

1202. joezan - 9/25/2000 12:25:56 AM

Hey, Indy - take care, and come back soon.

Excellent job.

1203. CalGal - 9/25/2000 12:30:14 AM

1198 doesn't contradict anything I said. (It's odd, isn't it, that no other thread host thought they had such broad powers that included banning someone?)

While it may or may not have been a grey area about thread hosts being able to ban people from their thread, the fact is that you \eren't suspended for deleting every post, but for continuing to do it after you were told not to by the forum moderator.

That you now get along with Stone is irrelevant, since it doesn't eliminate the possibility that you might decide to ban some other person from your thread.

So no, I don't think that subsequent event have removed the "problem"--which wasn't that you didn't get along with Stone, but that you abused the role of thread host, argued about it, and then refused to acknowledge or acceded to the decision of the forum moderator.

1204. CalGal - 9/25/2000 12:31:07 AM

And yes, Indy, I'll miss you. I hope you come back soon.

1205. Nostradamus - 9/25/2000 12:50:02 AM

Let me repeat myself for you, Cal, since you seem to have missed it the first time: I will happily abide by that rule (preventing hosts from banning specific posters) if it is explicitly spelled out somewhere and applies to ALL hosts.

As to the rest of your post, I don't wish to go there. No point in ripping open old wounds. But I defy you to find a single post in which wabbit orders me to let Rosie post in the SI thread. Find such a post for me and we have something to talk about, otherwise, you're just whistling in the wind.

Anyone who wants to know what REALLY happened can email me and find out. I volunteer to host the Sex thread and to be Mote Gatekeeper.

1206. CalGal - 9/25/2000 1:39:36 AM

But I defy you to find a single post in which wabbit orders me to let Rosie post in the SI thread.

You announced that wabbit had told Stone to stop and then maybe--maybe--she'd order you to let him post in your thread.

Wabbit quoted your announcment and said that she had never said this. (post 2661, Suggestions). She had also told you several times leading up to that post to stop. Several people in the conversation at the time informed you that she had told you to knock it off.

So yes, she did indeed tell you to stop the deletions.

Frankly, your assurance that you will abide by the rules isn't in the slightest bit convincing, since you'll undoubtedly find some other odd interpretation that you'll then abuse, followed by a hissy fit when it turns out that no one agrees with your reading, followed by a fuss in Suggestions, and then you'll leave--after announcing that you'll never be back again.

Then, of course, you'll come back and say shitty things about the place and various people in it.

And then you'll volunteer for a host position and act just a tad wounded when someone points out your history.

I think it's a lousy idea for you to be thread host, but whatever. That's for the administrators to decide (two of whom you insult regularly). I just figured to make sure that any folks not around then were aware of your behavior, so it wouldn't freak them out too badly if you went beserk again.

Gatekeeper is a different issue. I fondly hope that you will be strolling along the banks of a frozen river Styx on a chilly afternoon before you're allowed access to the private emails of forum members.

1207. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 1:45:10 AM

That Indy leaves is a loss for the Mote. Hope you can sneak back in now then, Indy!

1208. DocBrown - 9/25/2000 1:59:29 PM

I'll mis Indiana Jones, too. Happy adventures to him!

1209. PelleNilsson - 9/25/2000 2:57:43 PM

DocBrown is now the host for Tunnel of Love/Tower of Lust.

1210. Dusty - 9/25/2000 4:48:41 PM

Can someone share JJBiener's email address with me?
I am hoping that I have an obsolete address.

1211. JudithAtHome - 9/25/2000 4:53:10 PM

Dusty:

Aren't the addresses posted over in the yellow bar of the Cafe?

And thank you for earlier in Suggestions...

1212. Dusty - 9/25/2000 4:59:27 PM

Thanks. I should have known that.
And you're welcome.

1213. ChristinO - 9/25/2000 7:07:38 PM

Mgleason has graciously accepted the nomination to host the Books Thread. Please see her posts in Suggestions beginning with Message # 6496 in thread 25 for an idea of what she envisions for the thread.

1214. AytchMan - 9/26/2000 6:01:06 AM

Indy--

A belated farewell to you. Come back and see us (type us?) when you can.

1215. theDiva - 9/26/2000 9:30:10 AM

Speaking of e-mail addresses....

If you need yours changed, or you want to add yours to the list, post it in the Cafe or email me at jazzdee@yahoo.com. I will upload the updated page over the weekend.

A while back I'd talked about doing a birthday page, but it fell through the cracks during my transition to this agency....is there still interest in that? If so, again, please post in the Cafe or e-mail me.

1216. JayAckroyd - 9/26/2000 11:32:30 AM

Slate's down, if you want to take a moment to sneer, you too can see the server too busy message.

1217. theDiva - 9/26/2000 11:36:22 AM

hahahahahahaha

1218. theDiva - 9/26/2000 11:38:21 AM

Best of the Fray ???? Really?

1219. CalGal - 9/26/2000 11:40:41 AM

Oh my lord. Jimbo you piece of shit by Dump? That's the best?

1220. JayAckroyd - 9/26/2000 11:40:49 AM

It really was down this morning.

1221. theDiva - 9/26/2000 11:44:16 AM

And what a loss, you weren't able to see such gems as 'Jimbo you piece of shit'.

1222. bubbaette - 9/26/2000 12:36:09 PM

If that's the best of the Fray then I can see that we're not missed.

1223. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 12:41:55 PM

yeah, that's true

i mean, the recent bickering between Nos & I was much better than that

1224. theDiva - 9/26/2000 12:43:26 PM

well, I mean, here we descend to that level not infrequently. It's just odd to see that touted as 'best'.

1225. bubbaette - 9/26/2000 12:45:17 PM

I wonder if it's an error or if that really is the best.

1226. glendajean - 9/26/2000 12:47:55 PM

We talked about manure in H&G.

Indy, wish you wouldn't leave. I enjoyed reading your posts.

1233. msgreer - 9/26/2000 2:05:47 PM

I'm on a roll here. OPEN UP THE HEALTH THREAD so I can post in the
appropriate manner please.

1238. JJBiener - 9/26/2000 2:27:29 PM

msgreer - Health policy is a subthread on the Slow Thread.

BTW, I sent you an email a little earlier today.

1239. msgreer - 9/26/2000 2:41:18 PM

JJ

I know Health is in the Slow Thread but in "read only mode" thus I can't post anything there. Let me check my email.

1240. msgreer - 9/26/2000 2:44:40 PM

JJ

Checked my email. I am locked out. Let me work on it. I am sure
your email will get through and I will answer.

1241. msgreer - 9/26/2000 2:58:18 PM

JJ

It appears my ISP is down in the email department for atleast 4 hours. You can send email to nurseisin@yahoo.com. and I will receive it.

Diva

You too young lady.

1242. PelleNilsson - 9/26/2000 3:35:37 PM

msgreer

Please stop spamming this thread. Go to Suggestions and confirm to Christin that you will host and the Health thread will be up within minutes. Impatient women!

1243. ChristinO - 9/26/2000 4:19:54 PM

Posts 1227 -1232 and 1234-1237 have all been moved to the newly reactivated Health Thread.

1244. rubberducky - 9/26/2000 4:22:07 PM

now #1242 just looks stupid

delete it

1245. Nostradamus - 9/26/2000 4:44:00 PM

Ducky

If we had to delete every stupid post, when could anybody ever talk to Judith?

1246. msgreer - 9/26/2000 9:14:21 PM

rubberducky

I agree with your post.I have been away for so long it
is taking sometime to catch up on who the nasties are these days.

Nos.. give Judith a break. I find her to be a bright and sensitive person. Her posts are relevant and she has a great sense of humor. I also enjoy her political posts. She is straightforward with
her ideas.

Perhaps I am missing something but I don't think so.

1249. ChristinO - 9/27/2000 6:13:50 PM

Nostradamus,

The politics of TT should be discussed at TT not here. Further posts on that topic will also be deleted.

1251. msgreer - 9/27/2000 6:31:30 PM

Nos

1252. ChristinO - 9/27/2000 6:31:30 PM

The previous post has been moved to the Mote Policies thread.

1253. ChristinO - 9/27/2000 6:32:09 PM

Pardon, that should read that post number 1250 has been moved to the Mote Policies thread.

1254. msgreer - 9/27/2000 6:32:14 PM

1251= Nos

Get a life.

1255. labwabbit - 9/27/2000 6:45:39 PM

#1254

...off topic.

1256. ranheim - 9/28/2000 11:45:00 AM

Is this the proper thread to ask a question about "FM" music? I have read that at the beginning of 2001,two new sources are to become available. I have heard that these sources will be availbale in you home as well as your car. Very limited - or no - commercials.

You pay for a "black box" + a small montly fee.

Each source will be from a satellite. One is called XM Satellete Radio; the other : Sirius Satellite Radio.

If any of you know something of these services, I would appreciate your comments.

1257. rubberducky - 9/28/2000 12:26:58 PM

ranheim:

i seen and read some on this

what is your question?

1258. ranheim - 9/28/2000 12:46:34 PM

What is the quality of the sound? CD? Or better?

Is there going to be selection? Classical? Country & Western? Brodway?

Or is it going to be this boring "Top 50" "stuff" that is availble locally. I live in the boondocks.

1259. rubberducky - 9/28/2000 12:55:48 PM

ranheim:

Is there going to be selection? Classical? Country & Western? Brodway?

depends if you believe what is said by Sirius. they claim "50 channels of commercial-free music, and up to 50 channels of news, sports, and entertainment". it'll work basically like cable TV, with no commercials.

of course, they also claim CD quality, but i'll believe it when i hear it. all in all, not bad for $10, but i'm not interested - i don't listen to the radio that much and with several stations to choose from, i can usually find something to listen to.

1260. ranheim - 9/28/2000 12:57:45 PM

ducky

Thank you much!

1261. AytchMan - 9/28/2000 1:18:16 PM

Hey--

As the extraordinarily laid-back host of N&Q, shouldn't I still get a request to move posts? Then, if I don't execute, the heavies rumble into Tombstone and rearrange the furniture? Just asking.

1262. CalGal - 9/28/2000 1:24:36 PM

Aytch,

The only other people who can delete posts are moderators, and they can delete any post for an RoE violation. You can delete any post for any reason at all, including your whim as Thread Lord.

We had problems yesterday, see Suggestions. And from the FAQ, just so's you know I'm not making this up:

A thread host can delete a post for any reason at all. If the forum administrator determines that a thread host is abusing this privilege, he or she will be removed from that position. Most thread hosts have deleted only a few posts.


A thread host can also move posts to the Inferno, if they feel it is appropriate for that thread.


The forum administrator can delete any post that violates the RoE, and will often delete posts that are wreaking HTML havoc. In general, the forum administrator will not delete posts that violate the tone of a thread, which is a host privilege


If you have any questions, feel free to ask the moderators in Suggestions.

1263. AytchMan - 9/28/2000 1:43:40 PM

cg--

I'm not questioning the right to delete of the Ubervolk. It's more a procedural, even courtesorial check. Anyway, thanks for the response.

1264. PelleNilsson - 9/28/2000 4:26:50 PM

Folks,

As you now IndianaJones has left us because of RL pressures. We hope to see him back. However this left the position as Gatekeeper vacant.

I'm happy to announce that one of the most loved and most respected Moties has volunteered for the job.

Laaaadies and Gentlemen! I give you:

TheDiva!

(And don't forget she comes fully equipped with racks, wedeges and wax