Pelle:
sto doesn't seem to be around but I'm 100% that he will support an Olympics thread. A sports thread without baseball and American football. The relief! The joy!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but baseball is an olympic sport.
2. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 1:12:39 AM
And draws about as much attention as synchronized swimming.
3. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 1:19:27 AM
Pelle:
In Sweden, maybe.
But in the USA, Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Panama, Venezuela, Dominican Republic, Japan, Korea, China, Australia, Philippines, and Taiwan, it is the among the most, if not the most, popular sports. That's a fair percentage of the world's population.
A lot more people than have an interest in team handball, for example.
4. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 1:21:07 AM
Pelle:
I left out the Netherlands, which has a pro baseball league, and has supplied several pro players to the US major leagues (including one of the all-time greats). Of course, in the Netherlands, baseball is a distant second in popularity to soccer, but Dutch fans know their baseball.
5. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 1:24:43 AM
Irv
Here is a page for you.
6. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 1:42:11 AM
Nice page, Pelle, thanks. I never realized baseball had its roots in Egypt.
I don't think allowing pros to play will do much for the USA's chances, since the US baseball season is in high gear, and the best pros won't play. But it will mean that Japan, which has stocked their team with the very best pro players, will have a chance to overcome Cuba's domination.
This all goes to show we need that Olympics thread soon, so we don't keep clogging up this thread.
7. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 1:43:22 AM
I also wouldn't rule out Australia, since they'll be playing on their home turf, though their best players are playing in the USA and are unavailable.
8. Wombat - 9/11/2000 8:19:12 AM
Kent Nilsson will be playing for Australia, won't he?
9. alistairconnor - 9/11/2000 9:02:31 AM
Nilsson schmilsson. How come cricket isn't an Olympic sport?
10. Wombat - 9/11/2000 9:11:13 AM
Because the Olympics go on long enough already (g). I've played cricket, so I am not speaking from Amurrican ignernce.
11. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 9:16:45 AM
Wombat:
Who's Kent Nilsson? The only baseball-playing Aussie Nilsson I know (must be a relative of Pelle's) is Dave Nilsson, who will playing on the Aussie squad. In fact, he played this year in Japan only because he would then be able to play in the Olympics for Oz. Expect him back in the USA next year.
The Aussie team has lost 6 of its front-line players recently (3 to injury, 3 to US major league call-ups), but is still rated as a legitimate gold medal contender. The team features some obvious transplants, with names such as Gonzalez and Nakamura, but you can expect strong Aussie support for their team.
But the team will be hurt by not being able to draw on US major leaguers such as Graeme Lloyd, Cameron Cairncross, Jeff Williams, and Luke Prokopec. I haven't seen Australia's full roster, but it might even include long-time major leaguer Craig Shipley.
The favorites for baseball are Japan, Cuba, Australia, the USA, and South Korea (roughly in that order). Of the eight teams competing, don't expect much from the Netherlands, Italy or South Africa (South Africa???).
Of course, if the Olympics truly featured the best in baseball, the showdown would be between the USA, Japan, and the Dominican Republic.
12. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 9:18:39 AM
I'd like to see cricket in the Olympics. The limited-overs matches aren't much longer than a baseball game. I'm surprised it isn't at least an exhibition sport in Oz, since the home nation can pick an exhibition sport (what did they pick anyway, Aussie Rules?).
13. Wombat - 9/11/2000 9:40:03 AM
Irv:
I meant Dave Nilsson (I don't know who Kent Nilsson is, now that you mention it).
14. PsychProf - 9/11/2000 2:02:20 PM
Here we go...no xenophobia allowed, cheer for whom you want, bust eachothers chops...let's celebrate the international perspective of The Mote, and then head over to PP's Sportsbar for some on-the house-libations. What a proper thread for out first year anniversary.
15. spunkymisg - 9/11/2000 2:28:52 PM
One day international cricket match runs for a whole day (each team has to throw 50 overs) may be that would be the reason why cricket is not been introduced in Olympics.
1 over=6 balls.
I would like cricket to be introduced in Olympics, Like Irv says, Aussies could have put cricket as there exhibit game. Moreover Cricket is also one of there favourite sport.
16. CalGal - 9/11/2000 2:30:50 PM
You know, I'm quite surprised that cricket isn't in the Olympics. When did team sports begin? (I should look that up).
And hi, spunkymisg!
17. theDiva - 9/11/2000 2:32:41 PM
Hi, spunky, welcome!
=====
a digression.....
A sports thread without baseball....The relief! The joy!
I would like to know just what the heck Pelle Nilsson has against baseball. Hmph.
18. spunkymisg - 9/11/2000 2:35:46 PM
One day international cricket match runs for a whole day (each team has to throw 50 overs) may be that would be the reason why cricket is not been introduced in Olympics.
1 over=6 balls.
I would like cricket to be introduced in Olympics, Like Irv says, Aussies could have put cricket as there exhibit game. Moreover Cricket is also one of there favourite sport.
19. CalGal - 9/11/2000 2:43:17 PM
Spunky, you hit refresh. Don't worry, we all do it at first. Use the VCR buttons at the bottom of the post list to refresh.
20. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 2:45:38 PM
PP:
Thanks for hosting this thread. You'll always be my hero.
I'm looking forward to a great thread over the next few weeks.
Watch badminton, folks. Indonesia will kick ass.
Spunky:
Welcome!
I've seen one-day matches completed in 6 hours (with full overs for both sides), and that seems do-able in an Olympic framework.
I recall one match a few years back which lasted 40 minutes... Pakistan vs. South Africa. Lots of ducks, and a rare golden duck, and South Africa scored something like 17 runs (!).
21. spunkymisg - 9/11/2000 2:46:35 PM
Hi cal, Hi Diva
Oops I refreshed the screen and the post got posted twice,I apologize for that. Well, wabbit will beat me up for that error.
It will not happen again.
22. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 2:57:40 PM
I just figure out who you are, Spunky. Great to see you!
23. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/11/2000 2:58:20 PM
Add "d" where needed.
24. spunkymisg - 9/11/2000 3:06:22 PM
Hi Irv, Long time
25. Wombat - 9/11/2000 3:06:51 PM
I think Australian Rules Football should be an Olympic sport. We get it on some obscure channel, and it's like American football w/o pads.
26. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 3:17:36 PM
Diva
I would like to know just what the heck Pelle Nilsson has against baseball. Hmph.
Baseball is a slow, boring game. Hereabouts, it (or something like it) is only played by kids.
27. theDiva - 9/11/2000 3:18:26 PM
Pelle
With all due respect, I must say that you're full of lutefisk. Baseball is an elegant, endlessly fascinating sport.
28. SnowOwl - 9/11/2000 3:21:19 PM
Diva,
Only somebody who does not watch cricket would refer to baseball as and elegant sport.
29. theDiva - 9/11/2000 3:22:12 PM
Snow
Ain't you never seen Bernie Williams in his pinstripes? Honey......
30. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 4:12:52 PM
theDiva is obsessed by men in tight pants. We others are obsessed by sports.
31. theDiva - 9/11/2000 4:14:09 PM
oh, phooey on you. After all, I don't watch that wretched football, do I? And I'd watch baseball even if it weren't played by extremely buff men in tight pants.
32. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 4:19:25 PM
Peace.
33. theDiva - 9/11/2000 4:21:06 PM
34. labwabbit - 9/11/2000 4:43:20 PM
Diva
"lutefisk"???
Is that similar to a soft, sticky substance that often is objectionable to the olfactory reponses?
(How are ya?)
35. theDiva - 9/11/2000 4:44:28 PM
see me in the Cafe, big boy.....
36. PelleNilsson - 9/11/2000 5:10:42 PM
I, too, wonder what sport (if any) the Australians have added. If not Aussie rules what then?
Dwarf throwing?
37. CalGal - 9/11/2000 5:49:35 PM
Olympics Site 38. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 6:59:44 AM haha...Cal...what a wonderful site. Thanks for the link. I will put it on the MoteHomePage and this page so all can use it. 39. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:00:42 AM toys 40. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:10:07 AM 41. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:22:47 AM 42. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:27:53 AM 43. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 7:33:49 AM 44. Wombat - 9/12/2000 8:42:22 AM Pelle: 45. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 8:53:27 AM Ah, the famous Bufo marinus. 46. CalGal - 9/12/2000 10:51:51 AM Prof--if you could find something on Regina Jacobs, I'd be grateful. I can't find anything that says why she dropped out--and I've actually checked three different local papers. 48. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 11:03:12 AM HERE YA GO CAL 49. CalGal - 9/12/2000 11:06:25 AM Thanks, Prof! 50. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 11:09:21 AM Cal...sounds like a question Dusty could deal with...we obviously need some comparative data. 51. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/12/2000 11:10:09 AM Well, I'm excited about the newest Olympic sport... trampolining. I'm certain that few sports possess such rabid international fan devotion. 52. CalGal - 9/12/2000 11:10:17 AM Yes, but I'm wondering for starters if my impression is just off. Maybe there have always been dropouts and I just haven't paid attention. 53. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 11:21:11 AM BEST I COULD DO SNOD...DIRECT LINKS ARE OUT FOR THE NBC PAGE
Check it out if you haven't done so. This is good stuff.
BTW, it seems to me that there have been an inordinately high number of dropouts. I can think of three--Regina Jacobs, one of the miniscule chick gymnasts, and now Hunter. I don't remember hearing of so many noshows the week before.
HUNTER'S STORY
click on photo 
SYDNEY
click on photo 
Cane Toad sniffing.
click on regina jacobs 
That is a bummer.
Does anyone else think that there have been an unusual amount of dropouts this year?
I'd post a link to the great trampolining page at nbcolympics.com, but I'm on a slow connection in a small hotel in Central Java, and I'd never get the page up. Please check it out. 
"The first type of trampolining was done by the
Eskimos, who would toss each other up into the air on a sea lion
skin similar to the sheet used by firemen to catch people jumping from a
house that is on fire. The trampoline itself was first developed by a circus
trapeze artist named Du Trampolin. He saw the opportunity to use the
trapeze safety net as a form of propulsion and as a landing device.
The trampoline consists of a metal frame
supporting the spring bed that the gymnasts bounce off to
perform their routines. The trampoline is 5.05 meters (16.5 feet) long,
2.91 meters (9.5 ft.) wide and 1.155 meters (3.6 ft.) high. The bed is made
from nylon or string material and is only about 6 millimeters thick. A large,
thick mat, known as the safety platform, sits on the floor at each end of the
trampoline. It is designed to cushion the impact if anyone falls from the
trampoline. Men and women may compete in socks or gym shoes.
There will be a men's and women's
competition in Sydney. While there are various trampoline
events, including synchronized and double-mini, only individual
trampoline is an Olympic sport. In individual trampoline, a competitor
performs two routines: compulsory and voluntary."
54. RosettaStone - 9/12/2000 11:57:00 AM
Thanks for the NBC Olympics web site. It looks great. BUT...
...I remember reading somewhere that NBC wasn't planning to use its web site in innovative ways, especially giving real-time, streaming video/audio of the sporting events because it wanted to control video information until its prime-time programming.
The sports columnist was begging them to put in on their web site in real time saying that few people would watch it anyway because the technology is so primitive and most people still use the phone lines to download the internet. Yet it would be really cool for those who did have cable hookups.
Anyone know anything else about the decision-making on the part of the NBC executives. If true, it's especially disappointing because of their connection to MSNBC.
55. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 1:05:47 PM
Rosetta
It is IOK, the Olympic Committee that is to blame. They have not kept up with developments and have not prepared arrangements for how to license streaming media.
BTW, those who have digital TV here will be able to see five parallel channels from Sydney featuring different sports.
56. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 1:06:22 PM
Sorry, that's IOC in English.
57. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 2:02:00 PM
58. JudithAtHome - 9/12/2000 2:21:29 PM
I wish I had a dish for the Olympics because the network that televises the games here invariably shows only the Americans...or at least, 98% only Americans and how they fare in the competitions. The last Olympics, I was always amazed when some foreign athelete got attention from the American Network.
The Up Close & Personal interviews...Americans. The after competition interviews...Americans. The pre competiton interviews...Americans. If foreigners win, it's "and taking the silver, American so-and-so of such-and-such. Oh, and Francois took gold."
59. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 2:33:18 PM
Judith...what would you do if you were runnin the show...
60. CalGal - 9/12/2000 2:36:18 PM
What's really awful, Judith, is that they have made those changes in the name of .... women. And they have succeeded because of it. Tragic, isn't it?
I have digital cable--will I get more Olympics coverage?
61. janjon - 9/12/2000 2:47:58 PM
Bah humbug.
Carry on.
62. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 2:52:22 PM
Trampolining - another ridiculous "sport". If I had my way I would cleanse the Games from all sports that involve subjective judgment and only leave those that are decided by measurable results.
63. CalGal - 9/12/2000 2:55:36 PM
Well, then you'd lose the US.
64. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 2:57:43 PM
Why?
65. CalGal - 9/12/2000 2:59:52 PM
Because it's the "soft" sports (gymnastics, iceskating) that get the US interested. US track stars are gods in Europe, and barely cared about here. We have more interesting team sports, generally, than the Olympics have.
66. CalGal - 9/12/2000 3:05:21 PM
Oh,I forgot--another key sport of American interest is boxing, which would be KO'ed (heh) by your requirement. Or is that completely points based now?
You know, I should qualify: I'm being flip. We watch the Olympics because we love the spectacle, the pomp, etc. But the Olympics television ratings were in serious trouble in 88 and 92, and it was only the focus on the soft, mushy, non-sports stuff that got everyone interested. In short, they needed the chicks. Why? Well, because the menfolk weren't watching in big enough numbers. Why? At least partly because they don't care much about the Olympic sports.
So it would be risky to take away all the judging sports--many of which are favored by women--and I doubt the Americans would stand for it. And without American money, I believe the Olympics would be in trouble. They pay a hefty fee for broadcasting rights.
67. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 3:13:15 PM
You surprise me. Marion Jones, Maurice Green, Michael Johnson are not big names in the US?
Does anyone actually look at or care about the gymnastics outside of the Olympics?
We have more interesting team sports, generally, than the Olympics have.
As far as I know it's only football of the "American" team sports that's not represented.
Thinking about it I would do away with weight-lifting as well. First, it's the most doping-infested of all sports. Second it produces competitors that look like mutants, in particular in the light classes. These men (and women) are midgets 4-4½ ft tall and packed with muscles.
Women gymnastics is close to that. There hasn't been a normal-looking woman competing since that slightly oriental-looking Russian disappeared from view in the early 80's.
68. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 3:16:26 PM
I'm being flip too. It's fun to hash these things out. Too bad we can't do it over a beer (or whatever you fancy).
By the way, PP, can one get any of the cyberbooze here or does one have to slip into the Bar?
69. CalGal - 9/12/2000 3:18:24 PM
You surprise me. Marion Jones, Maurice Green, Michael Johnson are not big names in the US?
No. Certainly not as they are in Europe. Or so it is regularly reported.
Does anyone actually look at or care about the gymnastics outside of the Olympics?
The worlds do pretty well. Although gymnastics never took off as hugely as iceskating, which became so popular that it ruined the sport.
As far as I know it's only football of the "American" team sports that's not represented.
I mean the quality of the play. Our basketball and baseball--the only two sports we care about--are far superior to the quality of Olympic play. As you say, football isn't in the Olympics. And we don't, as a general rule, give a damn about the other sports.
There hasn't been a normal-looking woman competing since that slightly oriental-looking Russian disappeared from view in the early 80's.
That will change a bit--they have disallowed competition by anyone younger than 16.
70. CalGal - 9/12/2000 3:18:50 PM
Gosh, I don't usually do that.
71. CalGal - 9/12/2000 3:19:11 PM
toy hell.
72. PsychProf - 9/12/2000 3:27:21 PM
Pelle...not only does PP's Sportsbar deliever over here, but I have it on good word that a number of our female partrons have volunteered to demonstrate the trampoline for Snod...for some reason a big turnout(on) is expected.
73. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 3:29:36 PM
PP
Yeah, all that bouncing ....
74. JudithAtHome - 9/12/2000 3:52:14 PM
PsychProf:
If I were running the show, I'd have interviews with the winners, no matter if they were Americans or not. I'd have Up Close & Personal stories as filler on ALL the atheletes slated to do well in ALL the sports and I'd have translators everywhere so if an upset occured, we'd be able to speak with the winners in the flush of victory, not to the Americans who lost. I'd encourage my reporters to get excited at the outcome of the contests, not just at the Americans winning or placing in top three. In other words, I'd act as if this were an International Event rather than an event where Americans can kick ass and if they don't, well, no big whup.
75. PelleNilsson - 9/12/2000 4:01:16 PM
CalGal
So it's the female audience that counts in the US? That certainly puts another perspective on things.
On boxing. The referees have hit counters but it's still subjective. What is a hit? and they see the action from different angles. But to be frank. boxing is a primitive sport, caveman-like, but fascinating (in my view). And the big moment is the knock-out. In today's amateur boxing the type of gloves they use and the protective head-gear makes a knock-out virtually impossible. I don't watch it anymore.
76. labwabbit - 9/12/2000 10:02:41 PM
Olympics...
"The game down under." (the table).
77. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 7:14:48 AM
Judith...NBC is conducting a money making adventure, not a culture lesson. Nowhere in your senario does it include the "viewer number" implicatons of your actions...don't you(NBC) have to consider ratings? I'm not saying yer way won't work...but...convince me...we're talking big bucks here. "Americans" like to watch "Americans" and "American Sports"...perhaps a better "mix" is called for...I know if I'm runnin the show, I want a large audience watching what I put on. Indeed, with NBC, MSNBC, and CNBC covering the games(arn't they?) we might have a more eclectic approach.
79. JudithAtHome - 9/13/2000 9:13:10 AM
PsychProf:
They haven't thus far. I'm not trying to steal money from the coffers of NBC. I think people will watch the Olympics no matter what a network shows of them...it is supposedly a very big deal. But for once every four years, what is the harm in showing the diversity of the world?
You say this is a sporting event, not a cultural lesson. I'm saying it could be both. My way would sneak in some educational benefits for this country. Surely it couldn't hurt for us to be reminded that we are not the only country that does things well. We always hear about the Global Village...whay not use the Olympics as an example of that? Aside from the opening and closing ceremonies, we see very little of the other contestants because we're being shown "The Americans!!"
This is an International event and if one is watching from America, it is hard to tell anyone has entered the Games but Americans. I'm proud of our guys but I'd like to see some credit given to the others, too. Maybe I'll be surprised, who knows? I'm basing this on my reactions to the last Olympics coverage, where the World got short shrift and it seemed as though the only people there were from the USA.
80. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 9:36:39 AM
Judith...chevie and apple pie...I understand what diversity is about...I'm just suggesting that that is not what viewers might be about. I'm not defending anything, or stating what I think...just trying to characterize what the TV event entails. It will be interesting to assess how parochial USA coverage is.
81. stostosto - 9/13/2000 9:48:02 AM
I think the Olympics should be scrapped.
1. They are boring, too many sports, too many bloody swim heats.
2. They are too big; too many sports, too many bloody swim heats.
3. Football (soccer) has only the second- or third-tier players participating
4. Too many bloody swim heats.
5. Samaranch and bunch should be slapped.
6. At best the games are like 24 different world cups at the same time and place, which is a concept without much merit. At worst they are 24 different second rate would-be world cups and totally meaningless.
7. Their time is way over. Let's move on.
8. Too much damned boxing.
9. Too many bloody swim heats.
82. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 10:02:10 AM
For Sto...
PLACE TO BE
click on photo 
83. theDiva - 9/13/2000 10:06:08 AM
We are track and field junkies in our house. Catch every single event we can, Olympic season and otherwise. Gymnastics, too. (We've even got our own in-house expert - Greg ran track for years, and did competitive gymastics, too. Taught, also.) The Washington Post has a huge Olympics section in today's paper....I'll see if I can find a link to it.
84. theDiva - 9/13/2000 10:08:32 AM
85. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 10:16:04 AM
NBC'S APPROACH TO THE TIME DELAY
86. Jonesatlaw - 9/13/2000 4:00:52 PM
I have to echo JAH's complaints. I hate the endless palaver over the American in 38th place, while we get snippets of the leaders. The olympics are supposed to be more than jingoism. Please, please, show us at least the finals of some of the minor sports before we show the pre-preliminaries of some swim heat complete with gauze filtered flashbacks of the American who gets creamed and eliminated in the early rounds. I don't care what she eats for breakfast, or the time she was injured when she was 16 and almost gave up swimming for cheerleading etc. I don't care what Peton Manning had for breakfast, or how he treats his Momma when I watch the NFL, why should I care about Olympians?
87. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 4:25:38 PM
Jones...do you think Kelloggs should stop sellin Frosted Flakes cuz you don't like them ...we're talking ratings=commercial charges here. How would you and Judith ensure that yer "complaints" make money? It is my impression that NBC puts on events that draw the largest viewing audiences.
88. janjon - 9/13/2000 4:33:17 PM
Heap Big Hype. Lots of Bucks. 50,000 condoms being supplied for the Olympic Village.
At least not all perspective has been lost.
89. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 4:39:56 PM
YA THINK?
click on photo 
90. PsychProf - 9/13/2000 4:49:16 PM
TRUE FOR OLYMPICS?
click on photo 
91. CalGal - 9/13/2000 5:42:01 PM
PP is right--also, until NBC started doing the Olympics in this idiotic fashion, the Olympics tanked in the ratings for a good decade.
92. JudithAtHome - 9/13/2000 7:23:11 PM
Well, fine...let 'em sell toilet paper and Depends and PowerAde all they want. Treat the American public like the sheep they are and pocket all the money and then call it an Uplifting Event. I'm going to be reading the books I just got today, anyhow.
Nice pics, PP...
93. CalGal - 9/13/2000 8:18:36 PM
Judith,
Oh, I agree that it's dreadful. In fact, I'd rather they'd been unsuccessful with the dreck approach, so we could get closer to hard sports. I liked the 88 coverage, myself.
But unfortunately, a lot of women like the junk.
94. JudithAtHome - 9/13/2000 9:24:01 PM
This one doesn't....
95. PsychProf - 9/14/2000 7:04:41 AM
Look...on my TV there will be 3 different networks showing The Games...I will see just about all I can take and have hours for, and I am sure any significant action from anyone anywhere will be videoed to death. I see no evidence that we are being ripped on any front...convince me as the action unfolds if you feel otherwise. What is it ya all want to see that you are being deprived of? How are "women" being patronized? Can't something be interesting to someone w/o judgment? Personally, I find the global celebrations these games bring to be unique...they enlarge my world, increase my aprreciation of international perspective, and are just plain fun.
96. PsychProf - 9/14/2000 7:23:15 AM
HAMMING IT UP
click on photo 
97. PsychProf - 9/14/2000 7:36:40 AM
TORCH
click on rafter and newton-john 
98. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/14/2000 9:22:26 AM
The best article I've seen yet on the Olympics:
Dave Barry on the Olympics
Some excerpts:
Every four years, athletes from all over the world gather to compete in an event that truly epitomizes the purity and non-commercialism of amateur sports: The Coca-Cola IBM John Hancock Visa UPS McDonalds Kodak Panasonic Samsung Sports Illustrated/Time Xerox Olympic Games, brought to you by NBC.
I don't know about you, but I expect to be literally glued to my TV set from the start of the opening ceremonies until the dramatic moment, three weeks later, when the opening ceremonies finally end, and the first actual athletic event (the women's 300-kilometer balloon toss) gets under way. I don't want to miss a single second of the competition!Unless, of course, the competition is won by a foreigner.
I frankly wonder why foreigners are even allowed to compete in the Olympics. They're always messing up the drama for American TV viewers. Like, NBC will broadcast a heartwarming, sentimental, in-depth profile of an American athlete, showing how, through grit and determination, he overcame a disadvantage that would have stymied a lesser person, such as being born without a head. So the American viewers are naturally expecting to see this person win a gold medal -- and then he gets beat by some athlete from some dirtball vowel-impaired nation with a name like ``Gzkmnzksrygyztan'' that doesn't even HAVE McDonalds!
99. CalGal - 9/14/2000 11:08:05 AM
Irv,
Dave Barry is God. His series on the Olympics in Atlanta had me howling.
Sto,
But there are an equal number of track heats. Actually, there are probably more.
PP,
I don't think it is patronizing to women to cater to their wishes. I just find it personally embarrassing that so many folk in my gender category respond to the dreck so beautifully skewered by Barry in Irv's post.
100. PsychProf - 9/14/2000 11:08:30 AM
No head...now there's a story...I can just se PP's moronic "headers" for his incessant pics and links..."Diverse American Heads up Trampoline Team"..."North Dakota Athlete wins by Head"..."Americans Heading For Record Number of Medals"..."County Without Bowels Makes for American Headache"...
101. JudithAtHome - 9/14/2000 11:10:42 AM
You can be sure that the network won't waste any time on a story about the vowel-impaired dirtball nations contestant who actually won by a head...
102. Paradoxical - 9/14/2000 11:53:05 AM
Hi y'all! My first post on this site...thanks for the info, irv. ;-)
I just love the new quirky (read as idiotic) 'sporting events.' My fave at this year's summer games is Trampoline Gymnastics. My fave at the winter games was Sculling. Can't wait until ear piercing becomes an event!! ;-)
Just browsing around...
Para
103. Paradoxical - 9/14/2000 11:53:32 AM
Hi y'all! My first post on this site...thanks for the info, irv. ;-)
I just love the new quirky (read as idiotic) 'sporting events.' My fave at this year's summer games is Trampoline Gymnastics. My fave at the winter games was Sculling. Can't wait until ear piercing becomes an event!! ;-)
Just browsing around...
Para
104. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/14/2000 11:56:10 AM
Hey, Para! Glad you made it. I'll be looking forward to your play-by-play commentary here of the trampolining event.
105. CalGal - 9/14/2000 11:57:34 AM
Hi, Para!
You've hit our "feature", the Refresh double post. Our techie swears by it. Just use the VCR button to refresh. On our front page, there's a link called Mote Interface that explains all this.
Welcome.
106. Paradoxical - 9/14/2000 12:03:57 PM
Oops...what an entrance!
Thanks, CalGal, for the info. There are instructions?? Who knew? Hardly ever reads instructions...please bear with me...I'm not nearly as goofy as I first appear!
Begging forgiveness...already!!! ;-)
107. bubbaette - 9/14/2000 12:14:54 PM
Am I the only one who find it eerie that Jeff MacNelly continues to illustrate Dave Barry columns from beyond the grave?
108. CalGal - 9/14/2000 12:20:06 PM
He died? I missed that.
109. bubbaette - 9/14/2000 12:23:50 PM
a few months ago, which makes me wonder whether Barry and the comic strip "shoe" are channeling the dead or if both were done so far ahead of time that MacNelly and Barry had months of stuff already in the box.
110. CalGal - 9/14/2000 12:29:39 PM
Oh, the latter.
BTW, I didn't know that Dara Torres had made the team! That's fantastic.
111. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/14/2000 12:32:42 PM
My guess is that Barry adapted his column to fit an existing cartoon.
Really, Cal, are you sure it isn't Bubba's first option? Chanelling the dead seems so much more likely.
112. CalGal - 9/14/2000 12:33:54 PM
I am occasionally a tad more literal than I need to be, it's true.
113. OhioSTOPAS - 9/14/2000 3:00:22 PM
Check out the story on page 1C of today's USA Today about how wrestler Matt Lindland achieved a spot on the Olympic team despite losing the Olympic qualifying match to Keith Sieracki. Lindland took the decision to arbitration (to which Sieracki was not a party!) and an arbitrator ordered a rematch to be held in a few days. Lindland won the rematch and is off to Sydney, and I'll bet Sieracki still doesn't know what hit him.
114. glendajean - 9/14/2000 3:15:39 PM
Which is also true of the 99% of the people watching collegiate or Olympic wrestling. One of the more oblique sports.
115. CalGal - 9/14/2000 3:17:50 PM
Ohio,
Got link? That sounds shitty--and in a world where Johnson and Green aren't in the 200, dreadfully odd.
116. stostosto - 9/14/2000 3:57:22 PM
Cal:
Sto,
But there are an equal number of track heats. Actually, there are probably more.
Yes, but they are not boring in the same bloody way that swimming is. It's really the closest thing to watch paint dry. If you splash a spot of paint on your wall, you can watch which drop makes it first all the way to the floor. If you watch a swim heat you can see eight different spots of white water moving, featuring the occasional bathing hood or arm. Most of the time you can't even tell which one is ahead, and the only way to keep score is by way of the text on the screen and the commentator. It's just, like, totally boring.
117. CalGal - 9/14/2000 3:59:36 PM
Sto,
Oh. Well, while I was involved in track and field and volleyball idly while in jr high and high school, I swam competitively for 13-14 years. So I guess I'll have to disagree about how boring it is.
118. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:01:51 PM
You mean other countries compete in the Olympics besides the Americans? Do they get to hear their national anthem played when they when the gold, too?
Sto -- swimming was more interesting when the men didn't wear shark skin suits.
Last night my partner and I had drinks with a guy here in town who also studied for a year in Denmark. They spoke in Danish and told old stories.
119. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:02:55 PM
And then they have, like, breast, and back, and stroke and crawl and free style and medley, and relay, and 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, and men, and women, and preliminaries and semi-finals, and finals, and loser's finals, and probably about seven more parameters to multiply everything by. It's just so fantastically out of proportion.
120. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:06:47 PM
Well, they have walking and steeplechasing and hurdles and high hurdles and....I'm sure you get the picture.
121. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:07:59 PM
glenda,
you mean to say that your partner actually speaks Danish? After having studied here for a year? And still does after, how many years again? And that other guy as well? That's amazing.
Did he ever get to pronounce 'rødgrød med fløde' properly? I bet he has heard that one, if you ask him.
122. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:15:21 PM
Sto -- I think they actually used that phrase last night as the test of whether one could speak Danish.
My partner was back in Copenhagen on business a couple of years ago, and he still marvels at the generosity of Danes tolerating Americans using the language. The other fellow claimed that since the refugee population (his term) has gone up, and tensions with outsiders has risen, that your countrymen are less thrilled at hearing botched foreigners using Danish.
yes, every now an then, we go see a Danish movie so he can hear it.
123. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:15:44 PM
The other fellow subsribes to some Danish publication, btw.
124. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:16:38 PM
Subscribes...
(yes, glendajean does quite well in English despite his inablity to spell or type)
125. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:17:04 PM
Cal,
I am no big fan of what you Murcans insist on calling track and field either. But at least you get to see the athletes' bodies and faces, and, in many cases, their techniques. There is much more food for the eye and the imagination. One of my favourites is high jump. I also like pole vault.
I also admit I was never much of a swimmer myself. While I was told once that my body - oblongish-like as it is - should be well suited for the exercise, I always hated all that water that got in my nose and throat and eyes all the time. I really cursed it and envied other guys their imperviousness to it. How did you manage?
126. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:20:25 PM
Well, you usually wear goggles. That's eyes. Most people don't swallow water when they swim, so I'm not sure why your throat was bothered.
Nose--that is a skill, I think, but most people learn it early. You just breathe out constantly.
I miss swimming. I also think it's a great sport to watch, because at every length but 50m strategy can play a part. In T&F, the shortest sprints are basically techiquie and speed, but never have time for strategy per se.
127. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:21:36 PM
glenda
That's marvellous. How about you learning some Danish too, then you can join your partner on his next trip to Denmark and come visit me and speak to me and my wife and kids?
128. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:24:27 PM
You don't want me to try and speak Danish. Believe me.
He is a musician, a classical singer by training (although an arts administrator now). He can hear anything and adequately recreate it. I have a dull ear. And I'm not so bright. I took two years of German in college over the course of 3 years. I tried to learn Spanish in high school.
But he always claims we're going to Denmark someday. So maybe we'll have a Scandi Mote Union.
129. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:25:47 PM
shoo
130. glendajean - 9/14/2000 4:27:12 PM
I still say that swimming was more interesting when the men didn't wear shark skin suits ... okay, grumble,shuffle,grumble..I know...bye...
131. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:28:38 PM
Oh, the swimming stuff is fine. Besides, it's not my job to play thread nanny. I'm just anxious today, sorry.
132. stostosto - 9/14/2000 4:29:46 PM
Well, glenda, if you ever do come by, please let me know so I can have the red carpet out for you.
Cal,
I never had goggles, that's probably a mistake. But nose would still be a problem. I tend to panic over that shit, and it bugs me quite a lot.
133. CalGal - 9/14/2000 4:33:56 PM
Sto,
It's very easy to learn, and if you do panic over it (which a lot of people do), you might want to practice a bit so you don't have that fear.
134. Don S. - 9/14/2000 5:12:34 PM
PelleNilsson: "It is IOK, the Olympic Committee that is to blame ...."
"Sorry, that's IOC in English."
No problem. IOK, UOK.
135. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:02:31 AM
IN THE WORDS OF REGIS..."LETS PLAY WHO WANTS TO BE A MEDAL WINNER"
click on ceremony 
136. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:04:22 AM
137. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:06:05 AM
138. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:20:11 AM
DOLLARS AND SENSE?
click on photo 
139. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:37:22 AM
ESPECIALLY FOR STO
TIMES HAVE CHANGED(ETHELDA BLEIBTREY CIRCA 1920) 
140. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 7:43:17 AM
LATEST
click on photo 
141. stostosto - 9/15/2000 7:48:25 AM
142. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 9:20:43 AM
usin my stuff...
143. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/15/2000 9:25:35 AM
For those of you who haven't seen the amazing and dazzling opening ceremony in Sydney yet, please take note: I haven't seen it either.
I was on the road all day today, in Jepara and Semarang, Central Java (get out your atlases), and I was unable to watch the ceremony, which was carried live here. But I did get a few live descriptions from my son via cell phone, and it was evidently quite impressive. My son has a unique way of reporting things, which added a delightful twist to the proceedings ("The Slovenians are entering now, and they're smiling.")
144. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 9:29:50 AM
Alliterative...with a corporate twist it would be "Smiling Slovenians Swigging Sprite"...
145. PsychProf - 9/15/2000 10:02:44 AM
MARION WATCH
click on photo 
146. Don S. - 9/15/2000 1:33:20 PM
re: #140
What a horrible development. Scratch that event off my viewing schedule....
147. stostosto - 9/15/2000 5:55:50 PM
PP #142
Just being schmutzig.
148. stostosto - 9/15/2000 6:03:09 PM
PP
Please produce a picture of Olivia Newton-John - but without John Farnham.
I kind of resent that kind of pompous show, but as pompous shows go this one was not the worst, I suppose. It was quite good in its genre, I would say.
Though I only saw about ten minutes in all.
Damn. Aren't I the killjoy. Perhaps my own mood could do with a brush-up. Sigh.
149. SnowOwl - 9/15/2000 6:06:16 PM
I'm glad to see I'm not the only grinch around here.
I'm wondering if I can find a cave to hole up in for the next 2 weeks.
The damn games are inescapable. We got the full opening ceremony live last night, and it's been repeated this morning.
150. CalGal - 9/15/2000 6:08:39 PM
I usually skip the opening ceremonies, except to see the flag bearers. That's an honor, and it's usually some ancient athlete (read 5 years younger than me).
151. glendajean - 9/15/2000 6:13:22 PM
We always watch the opening ceremonies. And the closing ceremonies. And a lot of the in between.
152. janjon - 9/15/2000 6:15:32 PM
The opening and closing ceremonies are better than the half-time festivities at the Super Bowl.
That much I'll say.
Not much more.
Carry on.
153. CalGal - 9/15/2000 6:22:06 PM
Ha. Another ritual I skip.
I am an summer Olympics junkie, for the most part, but I get most of my jones from reading coverage. Television coverage has been horrible for years. I would very much like to know if I've got better coverage on digital.
154. robertjayb - 9/15/2000 10:36:44 PM
.
Candidate for inane commentary medal:
Bob Costas' remark upon the entry of the Bolivians that Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid fled to Bolivia following their U.S. crime spree.
155. CalGal - 9/15/2000 11:26:22 PM
You know, I gotta confess I thought the quartet singing the national anthem was quite good. Singing tight harmony in a huge stadium is not easy.
But now I'm trying to figure out which is worse--the commentary or the monster skit it's covering up.
156. mgleason - 9/16/2000 12:49:52 AM
As a bred-in-the-bone cynic, I can't account for my reaction to opening ceremonies of the Olympic Games. I get positively verklemmt thinking about world harmony and other Olympic ideals, however tarnished they have become.
157. angel-five - 9/16/2000 12:57:53 AM
Apparently there was some bare-breasted woman dancing in the ceremony.
158. jexster - 9/16/2000 1:31:30 AM
I think Katie Kouric and Bob Costas should get married.
159. stostosto - 9/16/2000 1:55:15 PM
mgleason
'verklemmt', indeed.
160. CalGal - 9/16/2000 6:09:02 PM
I realize the finals have already been swum, but still I have to comment on the men's 4x100. It's a good day when you hit .02 seconds off the Olympic record--and just .3 off WR pace--with two alternates.
Popov's style blows me away. The guy easily takes 1 stroke for everyone else's 4, and always looks as if he's leisurely swimming down after a tough practice.
Still, I imagine it's the Americans and the Aussies. If the Aussies have won, they either put together a hell of a time or the American coach picked the wrong four for the relay.
161. CalGal - 9/16/2000 6:10:17 PM
I should have said I have to comment on the trials, which just finished running here.
And yeah, I know I could look it up. But where's the fun in that?
162. jexster - 9/16/2000 11:08:31 PM
Those body suits are crimes against nature. Ian Thorpe's guilty on about 30 counts.
163. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:28:36 AM
They didn't show the Latvian Team during the opening cermony march in. Ms PP was not a happy camper. And I concur with Maria...the world seems smaller, if only for a brief moment, or maybe just in my minds eye.
164. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:31:57 AM
For Sto... 
165. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:39:59 AM
PANTS DOWN
click on photo 
166. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:43:42 AM
GREAT EVENT...THE TRIATHALON
click on simon whitfield 
167. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:47:39 AM
Rob Barel, Netherlands, Triathlon competitor... 
168. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:49:46 AM
Brazilian Team, Sailing Regatta... 
169. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 11:52:48 AM
Zhang Yanqin, China, Ballplayer... 
170. KuligintheHooligan - 9/17/2000 11:59:56 AM
Current medal count has the United States in first with 11 total metals, followed by Australia with 9. The US also has the most gold metals with 4.
China is third with 5 total, and Germany fourth with 4 total metals.
171. KuligintheHooligan - 9/17/2000 12:01:06 PM
I am most interested in the US and its chances for bringing home gold metals in boxing. They have amassed a good team this Olympics, but the Cubans will be hard to beat.
172. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 12:32:50 PM
FOR KULIGAN
click on photo 
173. CalGal - 9/17/2000 1:04:15 PM
The Romanian weightlifting team was sent home after two of them tested positive for drugs du jour.
It's nice to see that the IOC is taking drugs seriously. But I always wonder what can be done to reverse the damage done by the false wins.
In 1992 China won its first ever gold medal in swimming in the 100m freestyle and when the woman got out of the water I said (along with most of the country), "Um. Drugs?" It took no special expertise. "Beefy" and "Chinese" just aren't two adjectives you generally find in front of "woman".
It was obvious, everyone knew it, and yet they walked away with a ton of medals. Four years later, with tougher drug tests, most of the medal winners couldn't even qualify for the finals in the same events.
Nonetheless, their names are still in the record books.
Michelle Smith of Ireland looked baldfacedly into the camera and lied--which isn't as much of an offense as her whining about the accusations that accompanied her not only suspicious but damn near conclusive on their face wins. Two years later, her four year ban for trying to pass a test by spiking her urine with whiskey just confirmed what everyone always knew. (Note to Smith: FloJo was wise enough to quit once the testing methodology got too strict.)
Ireland struck all her records off the books. But she's still described as "three time Olympic gold medalist". They can't take that away from her.
174. CalGal - 9/17/2000 1:04:34 PM
It's not that drugs aren't everywhere, obviously. But in most sports, you get the feeling that the "everyone's doing it" charge is probably true. In swimming, more than most sports, it doesn't hold up. Take a decent female swimmer and give her steroids bulk up her arm muscles and you've got a world record holder in no time--with usually weak technique and a solid upper body. Bulk up a great swimmer and she wouldn't be able to perform nearly as well--it would screw up her technique and feel for the water.
It is not mentioned much in the news, but the new "phenom" Inje de Bruijn (no relationship to Michelle Smith's drug expert hubby) is in her late twenties, was an ordinary swimmer until a couple years ago when all of a sudden she started blowing everyone out of the water. She set a world record once that was rejected because she hadn't tested within 24 hours after the event--no great loss, because the week she got the news she'd broken that time again.
Keep that in mind when you hear about her inevitable wins.
175. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:11:36 PM
Cal...see Message # 165
176. CalGal - 9/17/2000 1:17:14 PM
Hey, I missed that. I'd just heard it on the news on the way home from grannysitting.
Did you watch the women's triathlon last night? Great race, I thought.
177. stostosto - 9/17/2000 1:20:18 PM
Message # 162
Thanks, PP.
Is that an eighties pic or what?
I actually think she looked much better than that at the opening. But I had the hardest time stomacking that Farnham character who, she duetted with.
178. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:27:42 PM
For Cal...
Winner of the women's Olympic triathlon Brigitte McMahon of
Switzerland stands triumphantly over second place finisher Michellie
Jones of Australia at the finish line Saturday, Sept. 16, 2000. McMahon
won by two seconds. (AP Photo/David Guttenfelder) 
179. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:32:27 PM
MORE ON WOMEN'S TRIATHALON
click on mcmahon 
180. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:36:35 PM
Hero... 
181. PsychProf - 9/17/2000 1:47:53 PM
Here ya go Sto... 
182. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 3:03:39 PM
The punishment for being away .... Irv beat me to the Dave Barry piece.
183. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 3:06:42 PM
And there is nothing wrong with swimming because we expect medals there. The first - a bronze - came in the women's 4X100 m free style relay. The US won forllowed by the Netherlands.
Team handball. Sweden-Australia 44-23 (hehehehe)
184. CalGal - 9/17/2000 3:08:45 PM
That third is especially impressive when you consider that the pools all freeze over in the wintertime.
185. CalGal - 9/17/2000 3:09:54 PM
Besides, I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with swimming. In fact, I think it is probably one of the cleaner sports. That's what makes it so frustrating when winners come out of nowhere with times and bodies that could only have been made possible by drug use.
186. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 3:40:43 PM
We've got ice breakers.
187. CalGal - 9/17/2000 3:50:41 PM
Ah, so that explains it. Do you know if the Swedes on the team went to American universities? Or are they developing their own program?
188. stostosto - 9/17/2000 4:08:59 PM
PP
Message # 181
Beautiful. Just... beautiful. Thank you. I absolve you from further banning, schmutzig or otherwise. For the time being.
189. PelleNilsson - 9/17/2000 4:13:07 PM
CalGal
Some, but far from all, in the Swedish team go to American universities. It used to be more common in the past.
190. CalGal - 9/17/2000 4:16:44 PM
I was just wondering if they had their own solid program yet, or if it was still based around the fastest ones training in the US. Are there any toprank Swedish swimmers (world wide) that don't go to the US?
The men's Italian team seems to be coming along well.
191. jexster - 9/17/2000 7:35:17 PM
6'5 Seventeen Inch Feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One can only imagine the size of the thorpedo:)
192. jexster - 9/17/2000 7:58:33 PM
width=400>
Beat Still My Little Heart!
193. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/17/2000 9:12:51 PM
Indonesia picked up its first medal of the games, and its first ever in weightlifting, when woman lifter Lisa Rumbewas took the bronze medal in the 48 kg class on Sunday. In one of those Olympic twists of fate, she missed out on the silver medal because she weighed two ounces more than the American lifter (they lifted the same total).
194. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/17/2000 9:43:27 PM
Lisa wins a medal (for those who can read Indonesian)
By the way, on one of the Indonesian sports sites there is a poll, asking how many gold medals Indonesia will win. The choices are zero, one, two, or three. A bit different from expectations in many countries.
Hey, Pelle, Indonesia is now tied with Sweden in the medals table.
195. jexster - 9/17/2000 9:43:44 PM
How big are HER feet?
196. PelleNilsson - 9/18/2000 2:06:23 AM
CalGal
Our best woman swimmer Theresa Alshammar who has a couple of world records trains in Germany. A number of others who will certainly get to the finals and have a good chance for medals train here at home. No doubt, the practices are heaviliy influenced by American training programmes.
197. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:19:11 AM
WAY TO GO
click on flying dutchman 
198. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:25:57 AM
Eva Giganti of Italy... 
199. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:27:18 AM
Mens Triathlon... 
200. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:29:45 AM
Indonesia's Ricky Ahmad Subagja... 
201. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:31:33 AM
Sweden's Pernilla Anderson... 
202. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 7:33:12 AM
New Zealand's Barbara Kendall... 
203. alistairconnor - 9/18/2000 10:14:01 AM
A good day for the French... (fleetingly?) second in the medals table, after good showings in canoeing, fencing, cycling, etc...
204. jexster - 9/18/2000 10:45:25 AM
I'd like to do more than "click on" the Flying Dutchman. Meanwhile...
Thorpe, famous for his size 17 ``flipper feet'' that have been compared to an outboard motor....
How does he reduce the drag from his other extremity?
205. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 3:21:16 PM
SYDNEY
click on photo 
206. PsychProf - 9/18/2000 3:23:19 PM
Jex...is this why you like the "Giants"?
207. jexster - 9/18/2000 3:40:30 PM
Psych - That's why I like the Giant Bobby Estallela!
208. ChristinO - 9/18/2000 5:56:52 PM
Pardon if this has been mentioned already but I am extremely disappointed in the Olympic coverage on NBC.
No awards ceremonies and hardly any actual sports. Tons of commercials and endless special featurettes about when some Australian guy saved JFK's life during WWII, how the Opera House was built and meaningless, contrived photo montages of atheletes we don't get to watch compete.
What's the deal?
209. ChristinO - 9/18/2000 5:59:53 PM
I'm also sick of the rather cynical commentary. They were going on and on about the Little Hercules last night as if he's some kind of failure because he didn't win Olympic gold for the SIXTH time. Like all of his past acheivements mean nothing in the face of a single competition.
They're doing this for ALL the events. I mean, yes the Olympic competition is an awesome thing but can't they find any freaking joy in it other than who wins the gold? What a dour bunch of drama queens these commentators are.
210. CalGal - 9/18/2000 6:05:07 PM
I've very much missed the awards ceremonies. The only one I've seen is the 400 free.
The swimming commentary has actually been pretty good, although I could do with more reminders of deBruijn's questionable status and not quite so much dismissal of Jenny Thompson once she didn't get her gold. You know, she had very little chance of getting one going in, and she knew it. So why make it seem like a failure?
211. ChristinO - 9/18/2000 6:09:20 PM
Exactly, they're just dour as hell. THey take more pleasure out of being malcontents and playing up the agony of defeat than the joy of triumph.
212. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 3:30:00 AM
Gold for Sweden today in the women's trap shooting. An important and significant sport.
213. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 7:32:04 AM
SWEDISH SHARPSHOOTER
click on pia hansen 
214. CalGal - 9/19/2000 9:37:04 AM
The ratings for the Olympics have been lower than any time in recent history. Well, duh. Put the events on a 20 hour delay, make sure that your own website and every other media outlet in the world trumpets the results when they occur, and then see how many people watch.
I don't understand why they don't run them live, like they did with the Seoul Olympics.
215. mgleason - 9/19/2000 9:51:43 AM
Did anyone happen to catch a commercial that ran during the opening ceremony that featured parts of The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock?
Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
Bad marketing, in my case. I was thrilled to hear the verses, but forget the product.
216. CalGal - 9/19/2000 9:58:17 AM
I remember the verses now that you mention them, but can't remember the product. I remember thinking it was a silly commercial.
But then, that silly one about Visa check cards and the tattoo that ends up Don just cracks me up. So I'm probably not the target audience for Prufrock advertising.
217. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:00:42 AM
I missed that, Maria.
The tv sports critic for the NY Times today gave NBC fair to good marks for its coverage. They particularly praised the women's triatholon -- the woman who produced it has a particular passion for the sport.
As far as awards ceremony, at least they're showing other countries getting awards (a first, it seems to me).
I for one am thrilled that John Tesh isn't doing men's gymnastic coverage, but must say that I cannot stand Tim Daggett and his female partner. "Wow." "Unbelievable." "If you had said to me [fill in time amount] that [fill in athlete's name] was going to [fill in accident or mistake]..."
I also resent their pumping the American men up to being medal contenders and then acting surprised when they don't win.
And I still think Alexis from the Russian men's team is still sexy Alexy.
As far as the extended coverage of Australia, it's hard to bitch about that, given American television limits exposure to almost all other cultures. And hey, I liked learning more about the Opera House design and construction.
218. mgleason - 9/19/2000 10:01:19 AM
It was just so strange to hear the disembodied voice-over joined with images that made no sense to me. I shut out everything but the words.
219. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:02:37 AM
I thought of you when they were talking about the Opera House, GJ. But it went on and on and on forever.
The triathlon coverage was good, particularly the women's. The swimming coverage has been pretty good overall. Gymnastics has been awful.
220. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:02:47 AM
My favorite Olympic commercials have been the car ads that play 40s songs with the Italian peasants lip-sinking in the background.
221. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:04:56 AM
The Ebay commercial amuses me.
222. mgleason - 9/19/2000 10:06:08 AM
If nothing else, that opera house has made me determined to visit Sydney.
And you're very right aboiut Tim Daggett, GJ; he's our special punishment for bitching about John Tesh. But watching Alexis is worth a bit of pain and suffering.
223. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:08:27 AM
The nice thing about the men's gymnastics was John Rothlisberger (sp). Incidentally, I was on a plane all last night. They didn't medal, did any of the men make the individuals or all-rounds?
224. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:08:57 AM
Scratch that, I'll just go check it out.
225. Jamie R - 9/19/2000 10:10:39 AM
I caught some of the coverage last night and can't believe how much saccharine crap you have to sit through before you're allowed to see actual performance. My favorite bit was about the Russian swimmer whose family came to the U.S. "with all their belongings and memories packed in 5 small bags." Gackk!! And these schmaltzy video montages with all the soft focus and glowing gold halos- it's like they shipped in a battalion of unemployed music video directors. Show the damn performances!!
226. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:15:27 AM
You forgot the equestrian Love Story.
227. mgleason - 9/19/2000 10:15:58 AM
Hell, my mom and I came here with one small duffel bag each that couldn't weigh over 15 lbs. I did manage to bring a walking doll that was as tall as I was and a string bag full of toys, however, because I did the silent tears bit. The guards didn't even search me.
228. Jamie R - 9/19/2000 10:20:15 AM
I missed mostof the equestrian coverage. I only caught a little bit of the beginnng where they stressed the danger and potential Human Tragedy. Oh, I forgot my absolute favorite part! I have no idea what the context was, but I heard an announcer say "he's not out there to show what a horse and rider CAN'T do." And I thought, is there an event where they show all the things a horse and rider can't do? Because that must really be something to see.
229. ScottLoar - 9/19/2000 10:25:57 AM
What happened to the mainland Chinese swimming teams that swirled up and over the last summer Olympics?
230. jexster - 9/19/2000 10:27:37 AM
231. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:28:09 AM
I am sitting here giggling at the thought of a horse and rider carefully demonstrating all the things they can't do. It's the announcer's patter that is really giving me fits.
232. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:30:13 AM
Scott,
By 94 they'd been busted for steroid use. By 96, most of the medal winners couldn't even make the finals in their events.
Ditto Michelle Smith and I betcha Inge deBruin is this year's poster child.
233. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:30:37 AM
In Atlanta, I believe we had Tesh and Daggett together covering gymnastics. And Dagget is getting louder and shriller, I suppose to make up for the loss of Tesh. He and the woman announcer finish each other's sentences, usually predictable cliches.
Cal -- the American men finished 5th out of 6, in the finals. The Chinese won the gold, which evidently is good for their coach. Supposedly he had a mandate from his government to win or else. The Ukranians got the silver, which also supposedly embarrasses the hell out of the Russians, who never have gotten less than gold or silver.
234. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:31:39 AM
That's in men's gymnatistics.
235. ScottLoar - 9/19/2000 10:31:53 AM
And all the while the atheletes and Chinese government denied any drug-use.
236. CalGal - 9/19/2000 10:40:24 AM
Scott,
I actually posted a mini-rant on that (as far as swimming and drugs) back at Message # 173. I think that any positive test on drugs at any point should strip you of your medals.
GJ,
Yes, the Ukraine team was a surprise. The Americans did pretty badly, from what I just read. Too bad.
237. glendajean - 9/19/2000 10:49:51 AM
Cal -- evidently, only the Chinese adjusted well to the hardness of the floor routine mat -- they had one shipped to China. Supposedly the Australian floor mat didn't have much bounce. At least that was all the other couuntries' excuse.
The kid who was the leader on the American team didn't do well at all. The old fellow, John R, did ok, and the young Hamm twins from Wisconsin both did very well and not so well.
But at least, these all young adults who have made the decision to compete (unlike the slave system that creates underfed and undergrown young females to twist and distort their bodies, causing injuries that will be killer problems when they're 40 or 50). Oops. NO more rant on that subject.
238. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 10:56:53 AM
GJ...yes.
239. jexster - 9/19/2000 12:43:01 PM
Does the Thorpedo do 'roids?
240. jexster - 9/19/2000 12:44:15 PM
I get injections myself by prescription and lemme tell ya it makes ya horny......
Off to look for some naked Ian Thorpe pics....ciao
241. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 2:20:27 PM
Ref: Athletic drug use.
As the line blurs between vitamins-protein-enriched foods and other "nutritional" enhancement concoctions, and "drugs", we must consider the fact that by whatever terminology is decided they are here to stay. Think about it. Genetically altered food, or any laboratory developed "high-performance" food/energy sources, will directly and ultimately impact human athletic capabilities and performace.
I say, as technology increasingly becomes the underlying factor toward athletic achievements, standards, and yes- development, why not capitulate to the seemingly invitable fact that the best developed technology will obtain the best chance to win. We can get all wrapped-around-the-axle about what is drugs and what isn't. We can debate to diffrentiate what is natural or not. Yet undeniably, the propensity toward discovering better,(or new),performance and development enhancements will continue. The personal drive and desire to obtain new world records, coupled with social/political/marketing pressures for success will ensure this process perpetuates.
The line between drugs and nutrition will continue to blur. What will happen to olympic ideals,(moral or otherwise),when genetically engineered tissues, blood, etc are enlisted; if not already.
Another question to consider. Would say, enhanced hemoglobin-chemically free, be considered drugs or just better physical development? Would rules diffrentiate between gaining treatment for athletic goals and saving a life? Would the one who received treatment as life saving be barred from competing athletically?
Why not let the best "technology" win!? Let's see what type of super-human or super-being can be evolved.
242. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 2:33:50 PM
(con)
I ask that last question as if it can be stopped.
243. Don S. - 9/19/2000 2:39:19 PM
mgleason,
Did you catch the Red Lobster commercial?
I should have been a pair of ragged claws, scuttling across the floors of silent seas...
Mmmm, tasty!
244. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 2:41:55 PM
DonS
Wrong thread?
245. Don S. - 9/19/2000 3:46:13 PM
What are you, the thread police? Once again, I must humiliate you by turning your attention to Message # 215, mgleason's post about a TV commercial that ran during the opening ceremonies.
Weirdo.
Back on topic ...
Full-body swimwear — bad
Chinese gymnasts — good
246. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 3:55:07 PM
DonS
No thread/msg reference, discussing lobster commercials in the middle of a athletes using drugs, and you refer to me as weird?
No humiliation suffered once one considers the source of the attempt.
However, perhaps you might become aware enough to suffer some level of humility. But rest assured its of no consequence to me.
247. Don S. - 9/19/2000 3:58:35 PM
I will not use emoticons ... I will not use emoticons ... I will not use emoticons ...
248. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 4:06:57 PM
Lab...EPO(blood doping for increased muscle oxygen), steroids for muscle growth, beta-blockers for steady hands...these are examples of drugs that will increase performance. I consider them different from substances that are easily available...e.g. vitamin supplements. We will have to make decisions(it always comes to this in life) as to where the performance of the individual leaves off and the effect of the drug takes over... aside from cynicism, it just isn't any fun knowing that we are not watching the result of hard work and innate athletic ability. At least for these tired eyes...
249. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 4:07:14 PM
...the defense rests.
250. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 4:11:48 PM
Don...I think Lab was just indicating some distress that his post was not responded to. Or maybe he thought that you thread-misposted...in any case, the topic of drug enhancement is an interesting one, and his post deserves to be considered.
251. KuligintheHooligan - 9/19/2000 4:15:21 PM
Quick bits.
South Africa is quite excited about the win by Bafana Bafana over Brazil in soccer. This gives RSA real hope for medalling in this event.
On the downside, for Namibia, truly the best chance for Namibia to get a medal, Frankie Fredericks in the 100m sprint (the silver medalist the previous two Olympics), has pulled out do to a tendon problem in his leg. This is a real disappointment and will probably negatively affect all the Namibian athletes.
Yesterday I watched with awe the handball event. I had never seen that event before. It was a sport I would have personally been made for. I'm disappointed I never knew of it growing up, but then again, I doubt it was of any real consequence in the States. I tried to figure out the rules but couldn't quite figure out if the guys actually have to dribble the ball or if they can run around with it all day. One guy on a fast break did dribble the ball, but then at other moments the guys didn't dribble it at all.
If anybody has information on this sport or could briefly answer some questions about it, I'd be most happy.
252. CalGal - 9/19/2000 4:18:20 PM
Labwabbit,
I don't know what the answer is. I do think that when drugs take a second-tier athlete and turn him into a first tier athlete merely by making him stronger than is generally possible for him to achieve naturally, then we're outside the boundaries.
253. glendajean - 9/19/2000 4:21:02 PM
Maybe the IOC can change the Olympic Hymn to that great reggae song, I'm a dope, I'm a dope, I'm a dope.
254. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 4:23:33 PM
Kuligin
I know about handball.
A player can indeed dribble the ball all day but once he picks it up with both hands he has to pass or shoot. When he holds the ball he is not allowed more than three steps before doing the same.
255. KuligintheHooligan - 9/19/2000 4:27:39 PM
pelle, from the looks of it, I thought maybe two steps and then pass or shoot, but I thought I saw some guys just running with it period. Then I was wondering about how to defend the man with the ball. Can you grab him? There seemed to be some fouls called, but what I saw was just quick excerpts from the matches, with notoriously bad commentary (watching the "Dream Team" play basketball and hearing the pathetic commentary, no doubt by a guy that hasn't seen a day of basketball in his life, is too pukey for words).
I likened this handball to water polo without the water. An over-simplification of course. This handball sport would have been perfect for me, since it seems to combine all the best qualities I had in athletics. Alas, I am past my prime now!
Thanks pelle.
256. KuligintheHooligan - 9/19/2000 4:29:14 PM
Oh, pelle, the guys also seemed to ALWAYS jump before throwing the ball to a teammate. I don't recall ever seeing a guy stand there and throw it to a teammate, but again, I only saw excerpts.
257. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 4:35:44 PM
258. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 4:38:26 PM
Kuligin
When a player has control of the ball you are not allowed to slap it out of his hands (I think this is allowed in basketball).
You cannot grab or wrestle with other players.
In spite of the above, handball is a tough sport, tougher than basketball in my opinion.
259. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 4:40:20 PM
Kuligin
Sad news about Frankie Fredricks. A fine sportsman, very popular here.
260. PelleNilsson - 9/19/2000 4:43:06 PM
The jumping is a feint trying to lure the defending team in position for a distance shot, thus opening up on the flanks.
261. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 4:46:29 PM
Pelle...very interesting...could you now describe the act of love making...we await.
262. PsychProf - 9/19/2000 5:02:12 PM
263. stostosto - 9/19/2000 5:17:00 PM
Psych Prof
I know about love making.
A player can indeed dribble the ball all day but once he picks it up with both hands he has to pass or shoot. When he holds the ball he is not allowed more than three steps before doing the same.
264. stostosto - 9/19/2000 5:29:40 PM
Kuligin
Handball is the #2 team sport in this country after football (soccer). I played it a lot when I was young. As in basket (or volley) being tall and able to jump high is an advantage, but it's not as exclusively made for seven feeters as those sports. A fast guy with good tactical skills can be very effective.
I believe handball is big mostly in the Baltic countries (Scandinavia, Germany, Poland, Russia) and some Central European ones, notably Romania, but also Czech/Slovakia. Spain has also been fairly good for some time now, and in recent years France seem to have made huge progress.
Outside Europe, a country like Egypt has put a fine team together almost tying the normally superior Russians the other day.
And in Asia, Korea has long been one of the world top nations, at least among women. They made it to the final in Atlanta 96 where they were unfortunate enough to play --Denmark...
The sport has also been taken up in America of late. Interesting to see when teams like Cuba and the USA play how much their style is influenced by basket ball.
265. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 6:37:32 PM
PP
We will have to make decisions(it always comes to this in life) as to where the performance of the individual leaves off and the effect of the drug takes over...
I agree to that point. However, where that line of definition exists is constantly being re-invented if you will. Given an athlete that works hard, builds his/her endurance by continually pushing/testing the envelope of h/h abilities, eating the right foods {naturally available}, and possessing the right combination of hereditary/genetic strengths, the line is easier to draw.
Drugs were drugs, and food was food. It wasn't too difficult to debate obvious differences. Now there are enzyme enhancements and outright inventions, as well as re-engineered proteins and such that it becomes increasingly difficult to determine what is artificially induced performance and what is not. What's to say that a given athlete who is pure, (in a "purists" sense; eats right/works hard), has a particular part(s) of anatomy enhanced by laboratory engineering. For example, replacing a gland with an improved one that generates an enzyme which increases carbohydrate efficiencies. Might that be considered unnatural? Illegal? Even if there weren't any drugs/or performance-enhancing chemistry involved?
Nevertheless, for these tired eyes as well I believe it is more fun to know that it isn't the athlete with the most resources that necessarily wins.
266. labwabbit - 9/19/2000 6:37:44 PM
Cal
...when drugs take a second-tier athlete and turn him into a first tier athlete merely by making him stronger than is generally possible for him to achieve naturally, then we're outside the boundaries.
That is, for the most part, the point I am making. It just appears that the line of what is natural and what is not, has become very fuzzy to me. I fear that this year's crop of athletes will only be as good as the definition allowed of the science that is applied.
Hell, in extreme-case scenario, a human being can be created in a petri-dish, and genetically engineered to (like an ant), lift 6-times h/h own weight....
What will that do to the sense of olympic spirit?
267. ranheim - 9/19/2000 6:49:56 PM
I'll show my age : 65.
There was one poorly maintained handball court at the college I went to. Handball singles : you alternately struck a very hard ball (with hands only) that had a lot of bounce to it against the 4 walls + the ceiling. You had to hit the ball in the air or on first bounce. Should the ball bounce twice, it was a point or "side out" as in a volleyball game. When striking the ball, it had to hit a wall first; as best as I recall one could not bounce the ball off either the floor or the ceiling. The art of the game came in planning angles for ricochets off the ceiling; several walls; etc. Should the ball strike another portion of your body prior to hitting your hand, you lost the point also.
Are talking about the same sport?
For me, a basketball player who thought he was in shape, it wore me down to a 'frazzel'. It took great skill to play the right angles to get your opponent out of position. It was damned hard work.
As one game frequently took 30 minutes (or so), very few people could utilize the handball court in one day. As I recall, the walls, floor, and ceiling were all made of some hardwood; thus expensive to build to begin with. And maintainance was difficult. That was the explanation to me as to why there were few handball courts. Plus the fact that is was such hard work that very few would participate.
268. stostosto - 9/20/2000 3:18:37 AM
No, ranheim, that's not the sport we are talking about. I believe the game we discussed is sometimes referred to as "team handball" to prevent the confusion with the game you are talking about (which sounds like squash without a racket).
---
Isn't it just typical, by the way. Football isn't football, it's "soccer". Handball isn't handball, it's "team handball". Even athletics isn't that either, it's bleeding "track and field".
Darn American team oddballs...
269. alistairconnor - 9/20/2000 4:58:32 AM
Ranheim :
The game you're talking about is known as "pelote basque" in France, I can't think of the name in English. There are various versions, some played with bare hands, others with a sort of scoop thing for catching and re-throwing the ball. Apart from France and Spain, it's huge in Argentina.
270. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 7:21:20 AM
I note where the Chinese, bolstered by the success of their "Eliminate the Parents" and "Just Say Yes to Drugs" programs, will now shoot rather than cut athletes that fail to make their future Olympic teams, thereby controlling cost, reducing overpopulation, and silencing whiners and other general malcontents. More power to the people.
271. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 7:26:32 AM
CASTRO SEZ IT'S A CAPITALIST PLOT
click on photo 
272. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 9:06:15 AM
SHOULDS STAYED AT THE LOCAL REDROOF INN
click on photo 
273. rubberducky - 9/20/2000 9:12:29 AM
The Sob Sister Olympics
The Olympics I'm watching is so drenched in sob stories I can barely stand it. Every night, for instance, there is an NBC guy—Jimmy Roberts, I think his name is—who sits next to Bob Costas and gives us a backstory from the Olympic Games.
which tells me that even if i didn't detest organized sports, i wouldn't watch this crap.
274. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 9:17:39 AM
Ducky...some of Robert's reports are interesting and informative... the one last night concerning the struggling swimmer was very good. Different strokes...
275. KuligintheHooligan - 9/20/2000 10:09:32 AM
sto, Thanks. I can well imagine being influenced by basketball when attempting to play handball. I think what is strange is that I had NEVER seen this sport until just the other day. I like it. I would have loved to have played it myself.
BTW, I don't recall what country you are from.
pelle, you guys are fans of Frankie? Other than that he is a great character, why up there would you be interested in him?
Thanks also for the handball information. I find it "odd" that you can't knock the ball out of the guy's hand. It seems to make defending a little more boring than in basketball. Not a lot of aggressive defense allowed it would seem. I think that adds a large dimension to basketball.
Here's another question about the sport of handball. I gathered from watching that you could not stand in the paint and try for a goal. But many times a guy would dive into the paint and before hitting the ground, shoot for a score. However, if the goalie blocked the ball and it rebounded back to the guy you took the shot - and he is still lying in the paint - can he take the ball and shoot again from there? Or must he pass the ball back out of the paint?
276. KuligintheHooligan - 9/20/2000 10:12:57 AM
PP, I have been meaning to thank you for the boxing pic. I am looking forward to seeing how many medals the Americans can take from the Cubans!
277. glendajean - 9/20/2000 11:47:43 AM
Prof -- I liked the struggling swimmer story, too.
I skipped most of last night. I just cannot watch female gymnastics anymore.
Kuligan --too bad you're not in USA right now. NBC is showing boxing everyday on one of their cable channels, CNBC, I think.
278. theDiva - 9/20/2000 11:50:58 AM
Glendajean
re: female gymnastics, neither can I. All I can think of is those little girls starving themselves to death.
279. Don S. - 9/20/2000 11:53:43 AM
"...even if i didn't detest organized sports, i wouldn't watch this crap."
Hypocrite! You're just jealous 'cause bowling isn't an Olympic sport.
sorry, no emoticons here, either. ... you're just going to have to fend for yourselves...
280. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 11:58:26 AM
DonS
Your batteries die out?
281. Don S. - 9/20/2000 12:05:06 PM
labw, I'm beginning to think you don't enjoy my cute little rejoinders.
on topic:
THE NETHERLANDS?!?
sigh.
282. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 12:18:31 PM
DonS
Nah. I really like your cute, little....."rejoinders"? (Could ya give me a hint on what part of the body that is located?)
It's only the dis-joinders I have trouble sizing up.
283. Don S. - 9/20/2000 12:32:02 PM
Some of my rejoinders have been remaindered.
284. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 12:39:21 PM
DS
I'm certain...
285. Don S. - 9/20/2000 12:41:02 PM
I'm still sensing a little hostility.
Of course it could just be Olympics Fever!
286. CalGal - 9/20/2000 12:43:38 PM
What struggling swimmer story was last night? Are you talking about the 400IM guy?
The ratings for the Olympics are lower than they've been since 1968. NBC will have to give back some cash to advertisers, apparently.
You know, if American broadcasters aren't willing to pay lots of money for televised rights unless they can run events in something reasonably close to live time, I wonder if that will be more of an impact to the selection committee than bribes?
287. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 12:46:11 PM
DS
Never hostile...all in fun. Isn't that why you're here?
Although I don't mind rendering a little spanking on those whose rejoinders are remaindered.
288. CalGal - 9/20/2000 12:56:06 PM
Lab,
It just appears that the line of what is natural and what is not, has become very fuzzy to me.
I disagree. If everyone was completely clean, there would be first tier and second tier athletes--whether it was talent or perseverance or both that got them there. If everyone uses performance enhancing drugs and that tier isn't upset, then I think you can make the case for your notion of fuzziness between natural and unnatural, and drugs and chemicals are just part of the deal.
But I'm talking about someone who is second tier, unable even to crack the first tier--much less win at that level. For that person to use drugs that boost him to winning at this world class suggests that something is out of joint--particularly if they can't maintain the performance without the drugs.
289. rubberducky - 9/20/2000 12:58:01 PM
Re: Message # 279, Don S.
well, more than anything it's due to no more nude college wrestling ... you know, like those fab greeks did it
290. stostosto - 9/20/2000 12:59:08 PM
Kuligin #275
I don't recall what country you are from.
I am a born and raised citizen of Denmark.
I find it "odd" that you can't knock the ball out of the guy's hand.
Pelle is not entirely correct in saying you can't do that. But you mustn't touch your opponent's fingers, or hands, or arms, or anything, and you mustn't endanger him such as if you block a shot by grabbing the ball countering the swing direction of his arm from behind. Given that the ball is small, it's difficult to steal it by knocking it out of opponent's hands.
It seems to make defending a little more boring than in basketball. Not a lot of aggressive defense allowed it would seem. I think that adds a large dimension to basketball.
Not at all. Like Pelle said, handball is probably more aggressive than basket ball. While the rules for foul are (AFAIK) exactly the same as in basket, the punishment is much lighter. Only real fouly fouls get punished by 2 minutes expulsion (which happens quite a lot). This makes fouls an integrate part of defense play. You basically have to grab your direct opponent by his shooting arm and his opposite hip any time he attempts a shot. And there is intense pushing and holding and tough infight at the six meter line (what you call "the paint").
if the goalie blocked the ball and it rebounded back to the guy you took the shot - and he is still lying in the paint - can he take the ball and shoot again from there? Or must he pass the ball back out of the paint?
No, he can't touch the ball when he is in the six meter area. No player is allowed that other than the goal keepeer.
291. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 1:34:18 PM
Cal
Why are certain enhancements acceptable in sport while others are not? Why does a Bulgarian get disqualified for strength enhancing steroidal/enzyme derivatives, while lifter 'B' gets by with "all natural-protein-carbo-enzyme-super-performace-dietary-formula-born in a laboratory-type supplement ... and still be considered "1st-tier"?
What about the Big-Mac-McGuire who now owns the crown as home-run king? He may have taken FDA approved steroidal compounds, but steroids are steroids right? I mean, he wasn't born with them, and they definitely didn't occur naturally as a result of in-born skills and hard work. Wouldn't the definition of clean be eating spinach, raw-eggs, and beer like the rest of us 2nd tier champions?
Are we sending a 'fuzzy' message here?
292. CalGal - 9/20/2000 1:43:25 PM
Lab,
But you are comparing method, as opposed to tier.
293. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 2:09:41 PM
Cal
Message # 292
I'm afraid you lost me on that one kiddo.
May I rule out assumption that by method you don't mean anal-suppository vs oral ingestion.
I think you might mean how they achieved 1st-tier as opposed to what they do once they get there?
To support my original arguement of capitulating to "may the best technology win because the definition of clean will constantly be re-defined position", I have to wonder if the definition for clean will eventually include re-arranged genetic code. I have to wonder whose definition of acceptable enhancements will produce the next world record standards. I also have to wonder where it will stop, believing at this time that it will not.
Could it get to a point where taking tissue from someone, re-arranging a few code structures during the athlete's development, re-introducing this material back to the original donor be considered clean as there are no "drugs" involved? How about an athlete who is "developed" in a petri-dish?
Should we...can we... avoid letting the best technology win? I take stand on the belief we can't...and eventually we won't.
294. CalGal - 9/20/2000 2:30:33 PM
I think you might mean how they achieved 1st-tier as opposed to what they do once they get there?
No, I'm saying that the method they use to enhance performance is different from what class of performer they are to begin with. You were focusing on the first, I was focusing on the second.
In McGuire's case--I don't think there's any question that he's a top tier performer. The issue is, should he be able to use a drug that will make him tougher and less vulnerable to injury? Whether he uses an approved or non-approved method, it's not the drugs that are helping him hit the ball. They're just keeping him healthy enough to play.
In the case of the weightlifters--if both of them are tier 1 athletes, then I'm not particularly interested in whether or not one is using an approved method and one not. If it just gives them an extra lift, the issue is whether or not that extra lift is legit. Fair question, not particularly my concern.
But if one of them was a lesser athlete who can only perform on a par with the other because he is on a drug, that is an issue that interests me. I can think of nothing "natural" that will accomplish that, btw.
295. labwabbit - 9/20/2000 3:00:32 PM
In McGuire's case--I don't think there's any question that he's a top tier performer.
[Now he is]...he exceeded marks set by other top-tier performers who were deprived of the substance to keep them healthy, sharp, and "less vulnerable to injury".
If he were to surpass Aaron's career total, would that be as clean and fair, if Ol'Hank stayed healthy and maintained skills by hard-work and practice? Or does the technology, presently defined as acceptable, allow this person to set a new standard of 1st-tier athlete that had not been available to his predecessors?
What technological(scientific?)breakthroughs will be discovered and accepted, that will allow another 1st-tier(er) to smack McGuire's record out of the park...and so on? Who will be the one to define it as legit?
296. PsychProf - 9/20/2000 4:38:31 PM
I USETA DATE A FEMALE HAMMER THROWER
297. KuligintheHooligan - 9/20/2000 4:48:14 PM
sto, thanks for the answers. Again, handball looks like an exciting sport and I wish I had had the opportunity to play it in my younger years.
glendjean, we only see bits of the Olympics here in Namibia, given that we only have one channel. Yes, you read that correctly. Only one. I don't think they have shown a lick of boxing, but I could be wrong.
298. Jonesatlaw - 9/20/2000 6:14:16 PM
I saw some boxing the other day, and it was refreshing indeed. A couple of lightweights who actually BOXED! I am so sick of the WWF type stuff in the pros that I have quit watching boxing save for old Ali fights on the Classic channel. The emphasis on skill and technique in Olympic boxing makes it exciting, althought the decrease in knockouts might put off the more bloodsport fans among us.
299. ranheim - 9/20/2000 6:35:04 PM
As a physician, the drugs used by Lyle Alzado and many others like him, eventually killed him. For those of you not from the USA, Alzado was a professional football player who built up his body, hugely, by taking a "cocktail" of drugs (mostly anabolic steroids); similar to the cocktail taken by Ben Johnson - the Canadian sprinter who had his gold medal/s taken away. These drugs should be made illegal for all people; not just athletes. Most are not available legally in the USA.
I can't remember the name of the product taken by McGwire - its nickname is "andro". It is over-the-counter in the USA. But, despite that, I believe that andro has been made an illegal substance in track and field and football. Go figure!
In the dimmest corner of my memory banks, wasn't there a controversy 25 years ago - or so - about an "iron curtain" woman who put the shot or threw the discus? I believe that she turned out to have an abnormal chromosome pattern : possible XXY? For a time, all women had to subject themselves to a scraping of the mucosa of the mouth (similar to a PAP smear) except they were looking for genes and chromosomes - not cancer cells. Is that test still being done? Or can they now do this on blood samples? (It has been an extremely long time in my office since I have had a genetic malformation problem for which I had to conduct the work-up. Today's patients come out of the hospital with that genetic information - under normal circumstances.)
300. ranheim - 9/20/2000 6:36:16 PM
As a physician, the drugs used by Lyle Alzado and many others like him, eventually killed him. For those of you not from the USA, Alzado was a professional football player who built up his body, hugely, by taking a "cocktail" of drugs (mostly anabolic steroids); similar to the cocktail taken by Ben Johnson - the Canadian sprinter who had his gold medal/s taken away. These drugs should be made illegal for all people; not just athletes. Most are not available legally in the USA.
I can't remember the name of the product taken by McGwire - its nickname is "andro". It is over-the-counter in the USA. But, despite that, I believe that andro has been made an illegal substance in track and field and football. Go figure!
In the dimmest corner of my memory banks, wasn't there a controversy 25 years ago - or so - about an "iron curtain" woman who put the shot or threw the discus? I believe that she turned out to have an abnormal chromosome pattern : possible XXY? For a time, all women had to subject themselves to a scraping of the mucosa of the mouth (similar to a PAP smear) except they were looking for genes and chromosomes - not cancer cells. Is that test still being done? Or can they now do this on blood samples? (It has been an extremely long time in my office since I have had a genetic malformation problem for which I had to conduct the work-up. Today's patients come out of the hospital with that genetic information - under normal circumstances.)
301. ranheim - 9/20/2000 6:38:37 PM
Sorry for the double post. I don't know which "wrong button" I hit.
302. SnowOwl - 9/21/2000 12:47:52 AM
I'm doing my best to avoid the Olympics but one news item caught my eye today. One of the NZ equestrians withdrew from the 3 day event because his horse refused a fence and that meant he had no chance of winning. This guy was our flagbearer during the opening ceremony.
So much for any idea about the joy of competing and the honour of representing one's country.
303. CalGal - 9/21/2000 1:29:59 AM
Wow, that is tacky.
Just saw the 200 fly upset. That was a kick--certainly the upset of the swimming events, and one of the biggest in swimming history. Suzy O'Neill hasn't been beaten in six years.
The 100 free is up next and I actually haven't seen or heard anything about it, so it will actually be a surprise. I don't think there's ever been such a high-powered final before.
304. jonesatlaw - 9/21/2000 2:54:05 AM
While I realize its futile to ask for TV coverage of some sports- Trap or other shooting events would be boring TV I would suppose, why isn't there any coverage of Judo? It would seem to be fast and exciting and there is certainly some interest in the sport in the US.
305. PsychProf - 9/21/2000 7:39:48 AM
NIGHTMARE TEAM?
click on photo 
306. PsychProf - 9/21/2000 7:42:53 AM
FOR JONESATLAW 
307. PsychProf - 9/21/2000 7:46:30 AM
PLAY MISTY FOR ME
click on photo 
308. rubberducky - 9/21/2000 8:58:36 AM
SYDNEY, Australia (Reuters) -France's reclusive Olympic track star Marie-Jose Perec fled the Sydney Games in tears on Thursday saying a man had threatened her in her hotel.
309. PelleNilsson - 9/21/2000 12:21:13 PM
Kuligin
Frankie Fredricks has competed here several times. He comes across as mucho simpatico. Also, there is a great deal of sympathy for Namibia here and in the Nordic countries in general. I have never been to Namibia but our company was running Namibia Telecom for a couple of years after indepandence.
310. CalGal - 9/21/2000 12:26:21 PM
Ducky,
That Perec thing is weeeeeeiiiird.
311. PelleNilsson - 9/21/2000 12:58:41 PM
Forgot to mention that Sweden took a second gold today, again in some shooting event. We're already better off than in Atlanta. We had some hopes for a bronze in the men's 100 m free-style swimming but the fellow (Frölander) ended up 6th.
312. PsychProf - 9/21/2000 1:32:21 PM
Jonas Edman of Sweden rases his arms after he won the men's 50m rifle
competition in the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games, September 21, 2000.
Dane Torben Grimmel finished second and Sergei Martynov of Belarus
third. REUTERS/Ali Jarekji 
313. ranheim - 9/21/2000 1:40:47 PM
Pelle
How are guns controlled in Sweden - I am assuming that there is some control?
Several months ago I read an article in which a British, competitive shooter was quoted as saying that with the recent change in British gun laws, he could not get his hands on enough ammunition to be competitive in an international event. (I have no idea if the Brit was simply complaining - or if he was giving an accurate description of current gun laws in Britain).
314. ranheim - 9/21/2000 1:42:43 PM
I meant to say that the Brit was complaining that he could not obtain enough ammunition for practice - so that he would be competitive.
315. Toenails - 9/21/2000 2:09:56 PM
Is anyone else concerned about how excruciatingly BORING Olympic
softball games are? I've witnessed three games in a row now where the teams had to play repeated extra innings in order for someone, eventually, to score a run and thus permit the foolishness to finally end.
Isn't it entirely obvious that this is a sport out of balance? When is someone going to do something to re-introduce a bit of offense into the game? Today's pitcher (not necessarily the WINNING pitcher, mind you) has struck out 22 people so far. Exciting? Nope.
Move the pitcher's mound back another ten feet so that there is time for a human being to react to the pitch and (perhaps, occasionally) make contact with it. Give the fielders something to do. Let's have a few 9-7 games, in regulation innings.
Jeez!
316. ranheim - 9/21/2000 3:02:02 PM
Toenails
Are you old enough to remember a 1 - 0 shutout pitched by Sandy Kofax in a game that last 1 hour 49 minutes?
For me, games like that did not lack excitement.
317. PelleNilsson - 9/21/2000 4:27:34 PM
PP
Thanks for the pic. Since the last update there is also a silver medal in the women's 100 m free-style.
ranheim
Good to see you back in the Mote. I'll be brief about gun control because this is not really the thread for it. In Sweden. there are several regimes under which you can be a legitimate gun owner, like being a policeman or a member of the Home Guard, The most common is being a hunter with a hunter's license. Typically you get such a licence by attending classes at weekends for three to four months, although accelerated courses are also available.
318. ranheim - 9/21/2000 4:52:31 PM
Thanks Pelle - I was specifically after any rules and regulaions your shooting team had to hop through to get the guns and ammunition that were necessary for your country's medal winner. One doesn't become good enough to win an Olympic medal without a lot of practice! Hence a lot of ammunition. I phrased my question very poorly. Sorry.
319. PelleNilsson - 9/21/2000 4:59:53 PM
ranheim
I don't think the shooting team has any regulatory difficulties whatsoever. Shooting, not being a big sport, they do have problems finding the money to buy all that ammunition.
320. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 6:52:19 PM
Poor ratings. Poor NBC. Poor American viewers:
NBC is going to add another minute of advertising per hour to make up for the disappointing ratings. The sponsors are grumbling so the number of ads per hour will increase from 18 30-second spots per hour to 20.
And you thought you were already missing a lot.
321. CalGal - 9/21/2000 7:01:22 PM
Yeah, but Dick swears we won't notice. Just like he said we'd watch what he told us to watch.
Incidentally, I predicted earlier that US broadcasters might start pressuring the Olympic Committee to only select host countries in amenable time zones. It has already happened.
But more fools they if they think that the time lag is the real problem.
322. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 7:10:05 PM
Time lag may not be "the" problem but I think it's a big one. The coverage loses a lot of immediacy when we can find out what's going on elsewhere.
A couple of decades ago, I can remember staying up late and getting up early to watch live coverage of big events in Europe or Japan or wherever.
What do you think is the biggest problem? The shift to soft-focus stuff to match the new demographics?
323. labwabbit - 9/21/2000 7:27:25 PM
The real commercial part of the programming are the events themselves.
Just listen to them plug bull****. However, I truly enjoy all those entertaining little skits in between the numbing salivatations.
324. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 7:34:24 PM
entertaining little skits
Do you mean the up-close-and-personal features or something else?
325. CalGal - 9/21/2000 7:35:30 PM
Oh, they could fix the timelag by just showing events in the morning. That's what they did for Seoul. I remember getting up at 4 or 5 and watching Olympics for several hours before going off to work. They were a good Olympics--I think Gumbel was the host. And I believe the ratings were solid, if not exciting.
So yeah, I do think their decision to stuff everything to primetime is a factor--but that's their decision, not the time lag.
The real problem is the quality, which is abysmal. The bathos of the soft-focus shit was bad enough in previous years. But now they have turned the Olympics into a soap-opera with an occasional sporting event.
Just four years ago, you could rest assured that if you missed watching Carl Lewis win the long jump when it happened, you'd be able to see a rerun of his final jump at least 20 times over the next three days. Now, they don't rerun the sporting events--they rerun the softfocus shit. If you missed an event, it's over. You won't see it again.
Of course, if they actually showed the entire event the first time you can count yourself lucky. The gymnastics coverage has been particularly egregious in showing a few clips here and there, in and among sexy Alexei's marriage and new baby that he hasn't seen. But we didn't even see the woman who won the first gold in trap shooting. Nothing on the event at all.
Finally, the announcing is horrific in primetime--I except only Rowdy Gaines in swimming. I remember when I was embarrassed by Jim McKay's euphoria over the most recent little skater or gymnast. He seems like a fond memory now, when all announcers seem to have one little label by each athlete and they must refer to it every single time. ("the perfect race", "the kidnapped Chinese girl", "the Suzy Stroke".)
What did we do wrong in our lives, to deserve this sort of coverage? What sin did we commit for this punishment?
326. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 7:44:24 PM
cg--
What did we do wrong in our lives, to deserve this sort of coverage? What sin did we commit for this punishment?
Speaking for just you and me, I don't know but we must agree never to do it again. The problem is that, declining ratings notwithstanding, "America" has spoken and I think we're saddled with it for the foreseeable future. The fact that UpClose stuff is cheaper to produce and can be put together ahead of time is an added bonus (for the network, not us).
327. CalGal - 9/21/2000 7:49:38 PM
But my lord, they spent a fortune sending a whole troupe of incompetents over there, and they are put up in a yacht. Surely expense isn't a factor.
I think we can find some sort of balance between sports and bathos, can't we?
If not, I want my live feed straight from the Olympic Camera. To hell with the broadcasters.
328. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 7:55:30 PM
Actually, I think expense has gotten to be a huge factor. And it probably always has been. It's just that in the past, the margins were higher and they didn't need to watch the bottom line quite as closely.
If I remember correctly, NBC was projecting a $700 million cost and $800 million revenue. But with the low ratings, I think they're in danger of breaking even. That's why they're adding more commercials.
329. AytchMan - 9/21/2000 8:01:02 PM
cg--
Separate subthread -- did you happen to see the US womens' water polo match against the Canadians a couple of days ago. The one with the big finish?
330. CalGal - 9/21/2000 8:21:36 PM
No, but I read about it. Or is there a different one that ended with the swimsuits being torn? I was very annoyed to learn that I'd missed waterpolo. It's a brutal sport that I used to play when I swam, and I love it.
331. CalGal - 9/21/2000 10:05:45 PM
Aytch--and anyone else:
Why NBC Won't Run the Olympics Live:
So why do networks resort to tape delay when the Games are held in a time zone that's not prime-time friendly? They've already paid for the rights. All their people are here. NBC could run the Games 24 hours a day if Ebersol liked. Why doesn't it? Two words: the soaps.
A top executive at CBS, which held the rights to the Nagano Olympics, explained it to me. He hated showing the Games on tape, and his ratings were miserable, too. But the networks are terrified that if they show the Olympics live during non-prime-time hours, viewers who aren't interested in sports would be driven into the arms of the competition. NBC's soap-opera lovers would begin to go into withdrawal, switch to rival CBS in search of a temporary fix, and get hooked on a different cast of tortured lives bent toward adultery. Today show junkies would discover that Diane Sawyer gets up early, too. Local affiliates would scream that their dopey Eyewitness News teams were being scooped in the noon hour by the non-Olympic competition.
332. CalGal - 9/21/2000 10:06:48 PM
And on water polo, Aytch:
Tuesday night I got back to my hotel from gymnastics at 2 a.m. and, still slightly wired, flicked on the tube. The fourth quarter of a women's water polo match was in progress between Australia and the U.S. WOMEN'S WATER POLO! This should put me to sleep, I mused. The U.S. and Australia began trading goals. Penalties were called. Power plays ensued. Players were in foul trouble. The ref paced the sidelines. It was all vaguely familiar, but excitingly different, and I sat riveted as Australia held on for a one-goal win.
It was in the qualifying round, so no medal was directly at stake. But it was pure sport, and I couldn't leave my seat. Actually, I was in bed. But I couldn't leave my bed! I required no commentator intoning through misty eyes about the water polo star who had the sick sister in the stands, the father who'd sacrificed, the childhood disease which no one thought she'd survive. We just watched the action, and whether NBC believes it or not, that's what about 98 percent of his viewers want, too. Life is tough. We all know that. We tune into the Olympics for something grander than a maudlin story line.
Now kindly wipe the Vaseline off that lens and show us the goddamn games, live, 24-hours a day if possible. Package the three hours of prime time if you must, replay to your heart's content, but give us the wondrous spectacle that is the one and only human event that can capture the eyes of the world when it isn't at war.
333. CalGal - 9/21/2000 11:32:46 PM
Sigh. I am not making this up:
The US women's softball team has lost three games in a row. A few clips were shown.
Then Bob Costas turns to that asshole and says, "Tough news about the women's softball team, but a lot of interesting stories there."
"Yes, Bob...."
and they proceed to spend ten minutes on the batgirl's friend, who died of cancer.
334. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/22/2000 2:51:13 AM
Reading this stuff makes me really glad that I live in a country showing 6 hours of live Olympics coverage every day, with no puff pieces on the competitors. Sure, I'd like to see a little less boxing and such, and some more team sports, but this is a lot better than the crap you Americans have to put up with.
And the badminton has been extremely exciting.
In case you missed it (it was, fortunately, shown on American TV, I hear), Indonesia got its first gold medal of the games in an exciting badminton match:
click on photo for a report -- in English 
335. CalGal - 9/22/2000 3:07:37 AM
Hey, congrats! Although this seems to be a sport they often win in?
And I note the history of (gasp) drug use even in badminton? I mean, what's that about? They just need some extra strength to smack that birdie?
336. SnowOwl - 9/22/2000 4:20:29 AM
Wow! Big upset in the 100 metres men's butterfly final. Congrats Sweden!
337. IrvingSnodgrass - 9/22/2000 6:30:21 AM
Cal:
Indonesia has been among the top badminton playing nations of the world since the 1950s. It is the most popular sport in the country, and the entire nation stops and watches when the big tournaments are played (the All-England and the Thomas Cup). The top badminton playing nations of the world are an interesting collection: Indonesia, China, Malaysia, Denmark, India, Korea, and sometimes England. No other nations that I can think of have top-calibre badminton players.
Most of Indonesia's medals in the Olympics, over the years, have come from badminton, since the sport was introduced as a medal sport in 1992. Indonesia has also won medals in women's archery and women's weight-lifting.
As for drug use, it shouldn't be surprising. Badminton is the f