GJ,
So what if he put blood on his cheeks? Upper class Brits do it after a fox-hunt. It was meant as an ironic thing, you know, a Lord of the Flies type thing.
1. glendajean - 2/16/2001 4:26:40 PM
Voices: La-dee-dah-dah-dee-dee-dah
DRUM BEAT
2. Fielding - 2/16/2001 4:28:05 PM
Where should I post a rant about Survivor?
3. rubberducky - 2/16/2001 4:29:29 PM
Philosophy and Religion
4. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 4:32:51 PM
Okay, Cultural Throwbacks, Professor Lowbrow here. Settle down, now, and put the gum under the desk like we taught you. In keeping with our status as the refuge of the Great Unwashed, there will be precious few rules here and they will be vigorously enforced.
Rule One: Spamming and flaming will not be tolerated. Violators will be laminated, then surgically attached to the shorts of Strom Thurmond.
Rule Two: Survivor-haters are welcome and, indeed, encouraged on one condition. Lament the show and criticize it to your heart's content but utter not a syllable against any who enjoy it. I'll bounce you so fast, buddy boy, you'll be the first person in the Twenty-Second Century. Why, I'll hit you so hard I'll kill your whole family.
And remember, as always, no wagering.
Done.
5. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 4:35:25 PM
The Evil Cabal of the EXTREME Court formed a corrupt Voting Alliance to vote Al Gore off the island and hand the presidency to Govuhnuh Death McPoopstain.
The BushShit has hit the fan.
6. PelleNilsson - 2/16/2001 4:36:21 PM
Aytchman is one of the funniest posters on the Mote when he feels so inclined.
7. Fielding - 2/16/2001 4:40:54 PM
"I'll hit you so hard I'll kill your whole family."
Timothy Daly, Diner
8. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 4:41:26 PM
Thanks. Pelle. I prefer to think of it as a treatable condition.
9. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 4:45:03 PM
H Man:
Are you going to move our earlier discussion over here from Movies&TV?
10. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 4:46:35 PM
Funny-- "9021Ogakor"
11. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 4:48:02 PM
judith--
Yep, although I don't know if I do it or Cal has to. I'll check.
12. CalGal - 2/16/2001 4:52:18 PM
I can do it.
13. RosettaStone - 2/16/2001 4:54:25 PM
This thread is another example of the dumbing down of mote.
I protest.
14. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 4:55:24 PM
Yes Rosetta but you showed up here, did you not?
(The lure worked, guys!)
15. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 4:56:08 PM
cg--
Fire when ready.
16. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 5:00:12 PM
Um, Survivor...
We'll hold off on starting the pool until we're a little farther along. However, in the meantime:
In light of what we've learned from the original show, what's the best strategy? Will a repeat of Richard's strategy work again?
And for the more elevated posters (real or imagined): what's the significance, if any, of the shift in the demographics of the contestants?
17. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:07:26 PM
I think the men are smarter...well, some of them...and the women less so than last year.
We haven't seen much alliance making on the Roos thus far but Richards strategy won't work with the Ogres because they are all backstabbing lone wolves, no matter how much they seem to be offering strength in numbers.
18. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:09:52 PM
"And for the more elevated posters (real or imagined): what's the significance, if any, of the shift in the demographics of the contestants?"
There is no major shift. The original Survivor had plenty of cute young boys & girls, too, and lots of blossoming busom-candy in bikini tops.
We forget much of that cheesecake now, of course, because all the really delectable pieces of ass were eliminated in the middle of the game; we got used to seeing Susan Hatch, Richard, Rudy, etc.
But let us not forget the tasty Colleen, nor the Cute-if-you-don't-know-her Jenna, nor Stacey, the Girl with the Huge Hooters who Ate the Bugs.
S1 also had lots of young men... who got voted off, because they were dumbshits.
I admit that a few of S2's men are a lot more muscular than S1's. But that's not really a demographic shift.
19. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:11:52 PM
Aside from the leg wounds festering with vile carnivorous insects, Colleen really was an adorable dish.
20. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:13:30 PM
Not as cute as Elisabeth, though...
21. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 5:15:11 PM
ace--
But the average age is substantially lower. Survivor I had three or four people over 60 (Rudy, Sonya, BB). Version II doesn't have any, I don't think. Coincidence? I think not.
22. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:15:58 PM
Colleen is/was cuter. Elizabeth is cute; she's the Colleen of S2. But Colleen is the original, and is the world-champ of cuteness.
Too bad, though, their dumb tribe never figured out the whole "alliance" thing until it was too late.
Salon had a funny bit of commentary on this. Something along the lines of the Revenge of the Middle-Aged: "We're older, fatter, slower, weaker, but goddamnit, we're a whole lot smarter than you Cute Young Morons."
23. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:17:34 PM
"But the average age is substantially lower. Survivor I had three or four people over 60 (Rudy, Sonya, BB)."
Aytch:
"Over 60" is obviously too old for this game, dude.
Marilyn and Rodger are almost 60. But come on. Old Folks are just no damn good at athletics.
24. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:18:45 PM
MAdDog was 52...not quite 60, Ace.
25. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:19:48 PM
She looks 60.
You add her enormous pendulous boobs to her age to come up with an Effective Age of 60, as far as athletic events.
26. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 12:26:25 PM
Juditha
Well, I'd been rooting for Mitchell to be kicked off since before last week, so I wasn't surprised. I was more surprised last week that he wasn't the one eliminated and Mad Dog was. This tribe has made some very bad decisions, mostly because of that woman Jerri and her plotting.
Honestly, this show brings out the worst in human interactions, I think. Selfish, vengeful, petty, and downright exploitive.
The pig scene was a kick, though, as was the chicken killing. I really cannot abide any of the characters on this show except Elizabeth and Roger, but of course, they will be long gone before it's over.
27. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 12:39:21 PM
Those 2 are too good to be involved on this show, MsIT...I love them but I like Keith, too.
I am torn between wanting Jerri to stay and loose a lot of weight and end up looking haggard and wanting her to booted early. She's fun as the evil princess but with her little dogsbody Mitchell gone, she has only one ally...the non-Amber.
I think next week will be the other teams turn to boot someone out...can't decide if it will be Kimmi or Michael.
28. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 12:48:48 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot about Keith.
He had a classic comment last night about Jerri. Very biting.
I think Jerri is toast even if she survives to the merger. In fact, that whole tribe will be systematically eliminated when the merge occurs, they're outnumbered now.
Michael is a pain in the ass, and while I loathed Kimmi from the start, she's beginning to wear well on me. I want to see that guy Jeff and that schemer Alicia booted ASAP, though, so Michael is lower down on my list of least desirables.
29. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 12:59:30 PM
Oh, i just mentioned Kimmi and Michael as people I think the others will boot...my choice would be Kimmi or that guy who designed the kitchen...I can't even recall his name. And Jeff is worthless but I like his bitchiness.
I can't stand Kimmi because I think it's unreasonable to judge the others for eating meat. She should just shut up about her preferences when people are starving. Instead she calls her whole team disgusting just because SHE doesn't eat meat. I've been on both sides of this argument and I was obnoxious when I was a vegetarian...and I was wrong. (And she looks sickly in her coloring, even before they started running low on food...she's not a very healthy vegetarian, trust me.)
Yeah, all the others are toast at the merger...I personally like Keith and Colby but the rest on that team can fly for all I care.
30. PsychProf - 2/16/2001 1:02:57 PM
I'm gnna go and shoot Frank Miller...
31. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 1:07:50 PM
PP:
Okay, how do you explain that one? And how about my lust for a pearl handled pistol in the Rants thread? Are we becoming a more violent community?
32. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 1:18:34 PM
Juditha
I'm not a fan of Colby's either, wouldn't bother me to see him eliminated, but I think he's likely to make it to the end of his tribe.
You're thinking of Nick from the other tribe. He seems quite unappreciated by his colleagues....
33. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:22:14 PM
I will admit to being in error on this reality TV show. While I did not find the first Survivor to be that interesting after a few viewings, this one is great, and I don't miss it now. All the characters are fascinating, and it is great to see the one tribe disintegrate into nasty politicking (I only like one person on that tribe - Keith) while the other one (of whom I like everyone but the whiny vegetarian - she's roadkill) is eating chicken, fish and pig.
34. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 1:31:18 PM
Ha
I find the tribe you like best to be fraught with whinning characters, of whom Jeff tops the list. I do like Roger and Elizabeth, however, and Michael has his moments.
The losing tribe is decending into self-induced chaos, and watching it does induce a certain morbid fascination.
35. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:32:54 PM
FU:
Welcome aboard. Did you really think we were all making a big deal out of a show that sucked?
Colby rocks. He stood up the scheming harridan Jerri.
Next week, Jerri and Colby might just try to eliminate each other. Surely they see that the writing is on the wall for one of them.
Re: The other tribe
How adorable is that blonde chick?
I'm glad that the tribe didn't make too big a deal out of killing the pig. I was all prepared to be angry at these pussies for whining about killing the cute pig (he was cute-- but he was also dinner), but they sure ate the pork when it was offered to them.
No one mentioned trichinosis. I wonder if it occurred to them that pork has to be cooked very thoroughly to kill the parasites.
I hate that whiney, pussy "Jeff." I loved how the little city bitch mocked Michael's plan for hunting pig ("Sure, he's gonna catch a pig. Sure"), and I like seeing him proven to be a big pussy.
I like the black guy, too. First I hated him (he seemed a Gervase-type slacker), but that "Once you have dark meat you never go back" won me over.
Although I do wonder. That pig seemed very much like the mantis that blunders into a column of South American army ants in a nature documentary-- in other words, planted there by the filmmakers for dramatic purposes.
36. PelleNilsson - 2/16/2001 1:35:34 PM
The winner of last year's Survivor here (where the concept originated) has managed to stay in the limelight by filming himself fucking Estonian prostitutes and calling the result a "documentary on the sex trade in the Baltics".
37. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:36:42 PM
Ace
Colby is smart, but I think she'll get him. I think she'll fuck him, literally and figuratively.
I like Jeff, even though he's a puss, because he's funny and he has a nasty streak, like when they start killing animals, he's always looking at that whiny "I can't eat brain" ass-kisser, like, "Whoa. Look. They're gonna' kill a pig."
The other team, however, is by far the most interesting, because they are devoid of any real physical or mental skill. All they have is sharp political knives. And all they do is scheme. So, save for Keith, I'm happy to see any of them eat the worm.
38. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 1:37:58 PM
No one mentioned trichinosis. I wonder if it occurred to them that pork has to be cooked very thoroughly to kill the parasites.
With the way they bitched about the rice being over cooked, I doubt they would undercook anything. Besides, Rodger was a farmer...he probably knew it had that potential.
The pig could've been disoriented from the fire...
39. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 1:38:21 PM
FIRES...
40. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 1:38:48 PM
more than one going one.
41. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:47:22 PM
"The winner of last year's Survivor here (where the concept originated) has managed to stay in the limelight by filming himself fucking Estonian prostitutes and calling the result a "documentary on the sex trade in the Baltics"."
GOOD FOR HIM! Now that's the way you do it.
"The other team, however, is by far the most interesting, because they are devoid of any real physical or mental skill."
Eh, that's silly. Most of these challenges are pretty much 50-50 competitions. Totally random outcomes. Like the silly quiz this week. The losing team is just on a bad streak.
42. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:51:09 PM
Ace
You're right.
Mitchell was loaded with skills (the guy was on the verge of a nervous breakdown). Same with dumb ass Kel, who couldn't even lie. And the super smart, super talented cop woman. She could do plenty as well. And the thin-nosed blonde, who screwed cop woman, but couldn't eat a cow's stomach. These people consistently fail when it is gut-check time.
At least the one weak link of the strong tribe, the non-meat eating puss, has the skill of being a supplicant who makes sure all the water cans are filled and all backs or lotioned.
43. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:51:28 PM
Who I despise:
Kimmi
Jerri
Jeff
Mitchell, although he redeemed himself by bowing out.
Who annoys me:
Michael, for "thanking God that He made me the leader of this tribe." WHAT?!?!
Jerri is dead meat as soon as the tribes merge. Jerri and Colby will go first (One first, the other second; the exact order doesn't matter), then the weaker members will be taken out. (Although, who knows, maybe Mitchell the chef can actually offer the tribe something if he has meat to cook.)
Amber has a nice rack but she will soon be gone.
Kimmi is dead; she just hasn't stopped moving yet.
The black guy, the black girl, the old man, and the adorable blonde are all actually contenders.
44. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:53:31 PM
"Same with dumb ass Kel, who couldn't even lie."
He didn't lie.
Where the fuck would he have gotten the beef jerky from? Surely you can't bring your own food to the contest. And since the other tribe's cargo-crate contained no beef jerky, why do you think Kal's crate contained jerky?
And how the hell did he manage to palm the beef jerky as the entire tribe -- sixteen eyes looking on -- unpacked the crate?
Silly. Jerri lied. There was no beef jerky.
45. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:55:01 PM
I like Tennessee Bob; I like the hunter dude; I like Keith; I like the black girl.
I dislike Jerri, the pencil-nosed blonde, and the vegetarian.
Everyone else is okay.
46. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 1:55:50 PM
Ace
Understood. But come on. I meant, when he comes up and starts to kiss ass and extends his hand and offers his razor.
What a fuckin' toad.
47. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 1:56:52 PM
"And the super smart, super talented cop woman. She could do plenty as well."
Well, Old People are always a problem in physical challenges. The "Good Tribe's" old geezer (Roger?) fucked up in the physical challenges, too.
48. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:02:39 PM
Ms,
You said Alicia -- who I THINK is the black chick with the incredible six-pack -- was a "schemer."
How so? I haven't seen her scheme at all. Have I missed something?
49. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:04:56 PM
Although, who knows, maybe Mitchell the chef can actually offer the tribe something if he has meat to cook.)
Keith is the chef...Mitchell is the 7 foot tall twin of Sean Hayes.
50. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:06:21 PM
JAH,
Yes, I have made that mistake twenty times now. My girlfriend knows that when I say "Mitchell," I can either mean Mitchell or Keith.
51. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 2:06:45 PM
Ace
Tennessee Bob/Roger is an outdoorsman (hell, without him, they probably couldn't get the damn chickens they won in the crate). He has offsetting skills. The cop just ran her mouth about how pencil-nose was her special bond-mate.
52. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:07:18 PM
I haven't seen her scheme at all. Have I missed something?
Yes, she planted seeds in Jeffs mind that Debb was getting ready to vote him off in the first show...she's very shrewd.
53. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:08:22 PM
Ace:
Now that Mitchell is history, it ought to be easier for you!
54. PsychProf - 2/16/2001 2:09:10 PM
Ace desires Mitchell?
55. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:09:59 PM
"Yes, she planted seeds in Jeffs mind that Debb was getting ready to vote him off in the first show...she's very shrewd."
You're *completely* mistaken. She told Jeff that Deb was organizing a coalition to vote him off, yes.
You know why she told him that?
Because Deb WAS organizig a coalition to vote Jeff off. They showed it all, it was all caught on tape. She was telling people that Jeff "wanted" to be voted off, so that "he could go home and have a pizza."
Debb said all that. She was outrageously, flamboyantly, giddily lying her ass off.
So Alicia ratted her out. What of it?
56. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:10:12 PM
PP:
No more...he's a thing of the past.
57. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 2:10:23 PM
Okay kids, Professor Lowbrow here. I'm prepared to begin to commence to start to initiate the 2nd Annual (Sorta) Survivor Bake-off. If at least four or five Moties are interested in vying for bragging rights, I'll start up the contest after next week's show.
And, as for the current crop of Survivors, how much dumber than the first batch are they? Hoo-uhh.
58. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:11:03 PM
That's why I was disappointed that Debb got voted off... she would have been a lot of fun. You can't beat someone saying, "Jeff told me he WANTS to be voted off so he can go home and have a pizza."
59. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:11:44 PM
Hey, don't jump on me...that's the way I feel about Alicia...she can be dangerous. Just wait. You'll see.
60. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:13:00 PM
H Man:
Count me in...I did pretty well last time.
61. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 2:13:35 PM
Cal
Can you put the names and descriptions of each SURVIVOR on the right side? I'm confused.
62. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:13:59 PM
But JAH,
Alicia was simply telling Jeff that Debb was scheming against her, and telling the most ludicrous lies to convince others to vote against Jeff.
Alicia told Jeff the truth.
If we were in the Survivor game, and I told FU that "Judith told me that she wants to be voted off so she can go home and eat pizza," wouldn't you like FU to relay that to you?
Go home to eat pizza. Criminy! What a RETARD!
63. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:14:44 PM
"What a RETARD!" refers to Debb, not Judith.
64. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:15:47 PM
Judith:
See the "New Thread and Suggestions" thread.
65. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:18:43 PM
Kel was the cutest. Too bad they killed him off.
Based on last year's program, I assume Jerri will probably go far. As will Jeff in the other tribe. The more annoying, the more likely they'll hang around.
The smaller tribe is the more advanced in forming alliances, but unless the other tribe is totally stupid, they'll get picked off quickly after the merger.
The bald headed Michael is, uh, a little "Lord of the Flies" crazy.
The veggie Kimmi is grating (as is Jerri) and I'd vote against either of them if I had the choice.
The cowboy auto guy from Texas may be smarter than he looks.
66. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:19:03 PM
Incidentally, it occurs to me that we could pretty easily set up our own Survivor. Immunity challenges would be conducted through quizzes. Participants could email each other secretly to lobby & form alliances.
Could be a fun experiment. Could be boring as hell. Who knows.
67. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:20:47 PM
GJ:
I think that good-looking, muscular men are too often assumed to be vapid pretty boys. (I know I face this predjudice every day of my life...)
But Colby *IS* canny, as much as I'd like him to be dumb.
But the die has been cast. Colby's tribe is too few in number now; they will all be eliminated in turn when the tribes merge.
68. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:22:49 PM
GJ,
Kal is a fairly serious conservative, by the way. He gave an interview to the National Review, who interviewed him after learning that NR was his favorite magazine.
69. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:23:48 PM
Ace:
I may try to get you picked off before next tribal council...going behind my back about the pizza like that! For shame...
70. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:24:36 PM
He showed the first sign of intelligence by voting with Keith and the woman with the Tennessee accent.
Of course, by then it was too late to make an alliance (as you point out -- they're dead meat at the merger). OTH, they will be more skilled at counting, which is the main survival skill, something many in the first season never learned until it was too late.
And he was right about them kicking Kel out. They needed his strength for the endurance tests. They kicked him off and the very next test, the funny cop lady Marilyn was a drag on them (she fell down and they had to carry her).
71. PsychProf - 2/16/2001 2:26:19 PM
I'm glad Mitchell took the tubes...he was about to die. Have the rest of them been picked for stupidity?
72. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:27:48 PM
Colby voted against Kal. That was dumb.
One, because Jerri was obviously lying.
Two, because Kal could have been useful.
Three, because there's no point in voting for Kal if everyone else is... I think Colby should have used that vote to vote for Jerri. Just a shot across the bow, to let her (and the other members of the tribe) know that Jerri is "in play," and that there is a standing vote against her.
73. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:28:59 PM
GJ:
They ran that course stupidly, if you ask me...they should have put two stronger people in the back to help MadDog when she fell. Instead, they had only one guy and Tina, the skinny accent, running back there. Tina actually hit MadDog in the head with her knee as she fell...they aren't too swift on that team.
74. PelleNilsson - 2/16/2001 2:30:22 PM
Should we have a Survivor thread hosted by Aytchman?
75. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:31:14 PM
His name is Kel. I didn't know about the National Review stuff, but I sam him on the Rosie O'Donnell Show. He was quite fetching.
Here's the CBS Survivor link.
I don't know if it is still around, but the www.survivorsucks.com was pretty enertaining last season.
76. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:31:36 PM
sam=saw
77. glendajean - 2/16/2001 2:33:50 PM
Judith -- they should have voted Jerri out or the Tennessee woman who went through Kel's backpack out. Kel would have been useful. Dumb, dumb.
I forgot Colby voted against Kel. Last night he did say he thought it was a mistake for them to have kicked him out. And he was thinking strategically when he voted against Mitchell, something of a surprise, I assume, to Jerri.
78. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:34:28 PM
Pelle:
Yes, please.
79. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:35:57 PM
A chat with Debb clears up the Ace/Judith dispute, to some extent:
loopy: Did you have other reasons for voting Jeff off, other than him being sick?
Debb Eaton: I was running around trying to convince others to vote for Jeff, because he was sick, and in the Jungle only the strong survive. He made a statement to me that I took literally, "I want to go home." We all want to win. And the only reason I voted for Jeff was because he was sick. To vote against the weakest player; and it was either going to be Jeff or Rodger, because Rodger couldn't swim. But Jeff was sick.
80. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:39:42 PM
Kel on beef jerky:
Kel Gleason: Hello everyone, and right off the bat, there has been no beef jerky anywhere in my life now, and there was no beef jerky when I was out there!
81. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 2:42:44 PM
Ace:
I wasn't disputing with you...you asked why MsIT said that about Alicia and I said it could've been blah blah blah which is a reason I personally don't care for Alicia and you started in on why I am wrong wrong wrong and now it is a dispute? I never said to you Debb didn't do that; I just said I don't care for Alcia and think she is shrewd in the way she does things.
So who are your picks for the final 4 and the final 2 or do you want to wait til next week before deciding...I think I'll wait to see if Jerri bites the dust next week.
82. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:26:23 PM
Oh, I see...and Kimmis perky D-cups are subtracted from her age...got it!
83. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 2:52:23 PM
Here's a thought:
Maybe Jerry isn't in such bad shape at all. Consider that the "Big Tribe" is sooooooooo big, and will likely be very big at merger, that it might actually splinter into two rival voting alliances.
Which would make Jerri's alliance competitive.
And which would explain why Jerri's getting so much air-time.
Egad!
84. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:27:36 PM
JAH:
Kimmi has large breasts.
Marilyn is wearing helicopter pontoons on her rib-cage.
There is a difference.
85. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 3:26:09 PM
On why I don't like Alicia...
I don't like her attitude. Everytime she speaks it's as if it's killing her to have to be in the same group as the others.
She and Jeff go off and scheme, and then whine. What turned me against both was on one of their walks they purposely fingered Elizabeth as someone they have to get off before the final four. The reason? She could actually beat them.
Fuck 'em both.
And in last night's quiz, she was the only one who couldn't get a right answer until the very end, and I think that was sheer luck. When Jeff pointed that out, she got all pissy at him. "Gee, thanks for pointing that out to me."
She's a whiner and a schemer.
Finis.
86. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 3:32:21 PM
MsIT,
Reading the survivorsucks.com site, I see that you are not alone in having a bad opinion of Alicia.
I did not know, for example, that she and Jeff got together to complain.
I've missed stretches of the show... since Alicia isn't on too much, I guess I missed her few moments.
Okay. Fuck her. Anyone who's buddies with Jeff "There's no fish in that river" PussyBoy is definitely on my shit-list.
87. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 3:34:19 PM
Ace:
You are sooooo easy!:-)
88. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 3:37:27 PM
JAH,
Well, the Survivorsucks.com site has informed me about Alicia. I honestly just never saw these parts.
For the last two weeks, I've been cooking dinner during the middle third of the show, and I guess I missed all of Alicia's bonding sessions with the sniveling Jeff.
89. JudithAtHome - 2/16/2001 5:30:22 PM
Wow...Message # 82 was in response to Message # 25 .
90. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 3:44:47 PM
Which one is Alicia?
91. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 3:46:31 PM
The black chick.
92. Francis Urquhart - 2/16/2001 3:47:23 PM
She's awesome.
93. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 3:50:06 PM
She's an FOJ (friend of Jeff) who's conspiring to vote off the Adorable Elizabeth.
Apparently, both Jeff and Alicia are useless, and have sought each other ought for that reason.
94. glendajean - 2/16/2001 4:04:09 PM
I agree about Alicia and Jeff.
Of course, as much as one doesn't like it, it takes conniving or making alliances to win the damn thing.
At least Richard in the first edition had a plan to his conniving. He was very upfront about it from the beginning. I didn't want him to win, but when it came down to him and whoever the whining woman who was left, I didn't care much.
But frankly, I think that Michael guy has gone native, so to speak. Did you see him put the fresh pig's blood on his cheeks. I can see one doing that to send Kimmi over the edge (that would be sport).
95. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 4:05:36 PM
GJ,
So what if he put blood on his cheeks? Upper class Brits do it after a fox-hunt. It was meant as an ironic thing, you know, a Lord of the Flies type thing.
96. CalGal - 2/16/2001 5:37:14 PM
Okay, that's pretty much it. I apologize if I missed some or included too many. The move function isn't nearly as easy as the conversation function, and I can only move them singly or in groups.
Also, Aytch, here is Survivor from Start to Finish, the conversation from the first show, if you want it for the butterscotch bar.
97. AceofSpades - 2/16/2001 5:37:49 PM
Thanks, Cal.
98. CalGal - 2/16/2001 5:39:45 PM
My pleasure. It looks like it will be a great thread.
99. Uzmakk - 2/16/2001 6:59:23 PM
Missed all of Survivor 1 and it looks like I'm gonna miss all of Survivor 2. Western civilization will survive.
100. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 10:10:59 PM
cg--
Thanks.
101. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 10:19:18 PM
Uzmakk--
We are counting on the few like you to rebuild after the Collapse.
102. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 10:56:23 PM
Is everybody aware of the suit against CBS filed by Stacy Stillman from Survivor I? Stacy, the grub-eater who took the extra one for the team? Stacy, the only lawyer on the island? What's up with that?
103. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 10:59:03 PM
Yes, I'm aware of it, just not the details. I seem to recall shes claiming something about fraud? Or manipulated results?
I'm not sure how that's a legal issue, unless there's something in the contract they all signed promising no tricks.
104. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:01:08 PM
A Survivor thread?
You do know the show's rigged, don't you?
105. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:01:13 PM
What I meant was, I don't think this could be a case of fraud.
Then there was something about her input being used and then not being given recognition? I don't know, I'm pretty vague on it all.
106. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:02:52 PM
That's it!
She's claiming the show was rigged. But rigged how? So that ugly, creepy Richard came out the winner?
Can't imagine them being that stupid given his lack of appeal with the public viewing audience. I seem to recall most wanting to see him kicked off from almost the beginning.
107. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:07:34 PM
Of course it's rigged. If it boggles the mind that Richard Hatch won in the first series, think about Rudy coming in third. Old Rudy did nothing but act confused and grouse about the smutty talk.
Remember, you're only seeing what the producers want you to see. How do you think they get the contestants to say snide things about one another?
108. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:10:28 PM
I dunno Jade
That's a bit too conspiracy theoryish for me.
Rudy was a favorite with lots of people, and frankly, he stayed below the radar for a long enough time so that when the tribes merged, the weaker one could be picked off one by one. You don't need a conspiracy theory for that one.
But how that ratfink Richard stayed on is a mystery.
109. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 11:14:30 PM
Hi msit--
She's claiming that Mark Burnett (the producer) urged a couple of the other contestants to vote her off the island to save the last remaining old player (Rudy). I'll post a link to the story in a minute.
110. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 11:15:54 PM
USA Today Story on Stacy's Suit
111. CalGal - 2/16/2001 11:18:14 PM
Was Stacy the evil bitch lawyer who had a tendency to speak for others? "We've decided" this and that?
112. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:22:19 PM
See, I didn't think she was evil. Her sin was in trying to talk about strategy and alliances well before anyone wanted to acknowledge they were scheming, including that ratfink Richard.
113. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:23:37 PM
And one might ask, how did I know this after proclaiming that I didn't watch Survivor last summer?
Because I did watch a few of the early scenes when it was rerun again in the fall.
Ohhh, my bad.
114. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:25:11 PM
Not a conspiracy theory. But clearly the producers can "nudge" the contestants in certain directions.
It's easy. Just pick a contestant who's hot, tired, wet, bug-bitten, and hungry and ask their feelings about a certain contestant. Repeat as necessary.
A good illusion is never overt. It is misdirection.
115. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 11:25:14 PM
cg--
No, I thought she was seen little, heard less and quickly dispatched (third off the island).
As I wrote somewhere else:
"Stacey -- No harm, no foul. Other than taking one for the team with those beetle larvae, Stacey left no discernible trace on the American consciousness. First of the Kids to go, she simply faded into the South China sunset."
116. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:27:19 PM
And Hey back H-Man
Thanks for hosting this thread, too. I was wandering around last night looking for a place to blow hot air about this show because I was afraid it had been nixed in TV.
Calgal said I could go there, however.
I'm sure this is going to be a weekly fix for me, and may keep me interested in the show far longer than I would have been without the cheerleading section to watch.
117. MsIvoryTower - 2/16/2001 11:29:03 PM
As to nudging, I can go with that. I just don't see how that's a viable claim against CBS. Would be hard to prove, I'd think.
118. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:31:55 PM
Regarding the recent pig kill, has anyone seen such a docile pig?
I've seen domesticated pigs that had more sense. Oh, and by the way, how did the cameras manage to film the pig making his way into the camp? They managed to film the pig for a long distance.
119. CalGal - 2/16/2001 11:48:08 PM
Ms,
Yes, that's the person I was thinking of. I remember the fuss when she spoke of alliances and "we" and that she was considered bossy, when it turns out that this was in fact reality.
There was no problem with Survivor in TV; that's where it went last time. But it does have so much interest it seemed obvious to give it its own thread.
120. AytchMan - 2/16/2001 11:52:51 PM
jade--
I don't know whether the pig was a plant or not but it's safe to say there was some level of manipulation going on in Survivor I. Jeff Probst's injection of the subject of alliances into the Tribal Councils was blatant.
But I think that, in light of the show's phenomenal success, more than a little of this would be very stupid. And, by all accounts, Burnett is a very bright guy. Still, you never know...
121. JadeGold1 - 2/16/2001 11:59:35 PM
You see the same sort of manipulation in Survivor II. Probst is goading the tribe that keeps losing the various "challenges."
I don't think the producers start with a plan to make a certain contestant win. However, as the time progresses, the producers are certainly winnowing out the less-interesting.
122. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:02:58 AM
I dunno Jade
I was completely taken with Mad Dog Marilyn, and Kel could have been quite interesting had he been around a bit longer.
If I were CBS, I'd be worried about another winner like that Richard dude, who was so unappealing, such a creep, that I heard people actually booed when he won. It's got to be a concern that only the truly ratty people hang on til the end.
123. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:06:43 AM
MsIT,
Rich wasn't such a bad guy. He was playing the game. He wasn't especially two-faced about it, not beyond what the game requires.
I mean, in poker, you bluff, right? And if you bluff, you're not a "liar," right? It's part of the game.
Now, the skeezebag Kelly or whatever her name was-- the runner up. Now there was an odious person.
124. AytchMan - 2/17/2001 12:08:13 AM
At this point, I doubt the producers are actively favoring one player over another. I'm sure they're stage-managing to inject drama into the show. But if they're directly affecting a particular player's situation, they're both suicidal and terminally stupid.
125. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:10:09 AM
Ace
What burned me about Richard is that he was plotting all along to form alliances, yet when Stacy wanted to discuss these issues upfront, he was all about kicking her off in wounded offense.
Nor do I believe he was upfront about it at all. He was upfront to those he chose to include in his little group, but the others were completely clueless, and he made no attempt to be honest to them.
In short, he was slime. Worse than Kelly, who was better than Sue, who was on par with Richard.
126. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:17:12 AM
"At this point, I doubt the producers are actively favoring one player over another."
I believe the contest is already over, and has been for some (short) time, Aytch.
127. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:19:16 AM
"Nor do I believe he was upfront about it at all. He was upfront to those he chose to include in his little group, but the others were completely clueless, and he made no attempt to be honest to them."
Duh-UHHHH, Ms. Of course not.
"Hey, guys? I just want you to know we've formed an alliance, and we'll be voting en bloc. So, you know, to keep it fair, you should really form a counter-alliance and vote against us.
"We wouldn't want to take undue advantage of our advantage, after all."
128. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:22:23 AM
"Hey, Defense! Just wanted to let you know that even know we're lining up for a punt, it's a FAKE punt, and we'll actually be running the ball. The holder is going to pitch it to tight end, who'll be doing an end-around. To the right--right, OUR right. Your left. So get your guys over there on the left. We wouldn't want to actually fool you with this fake punt-- wouldn't be sporting, Old Man."
129. AytchMan - 2/17/2001 12:25:11 AM
ace--
Already over? Please explain.
130. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:27:27 AM
Aytch--
The game is already over. They're just editing the footage, now.
This is what happened in Survivor 1, if you remember. The game had been over for a month or two before the last shows were broadcast.
All the Survivors are already home. Aren't they?
Maybe I'm remembering wrong... maybe the actual, real-time contest ends about half-way through the run of the show.
131. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:29:01 AM
Well, then, in what way was he open and upfront?
One can say he played a game, that he had an objective, but not that he was in anyway honest or open about it, except to a chosen few, who could have gone and told others, but became his minions out of sheer self-interest.
I say they were all weasels.
132. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:29:40 AM
In SI, they showed a lot of Richard in the early shows for a good reason... because the producers already knew he'd won. So, in editing the shows, they featured lots of Richard.
Conversely, they didn't feature too much of Greg, Jarvase, Colleen, Jenna, etc.
133. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:31:13 AM
It's true that the game is already over.
One of the things that's been interesting is how tight-lipped all the contestants have been about the results. CBS was absolutely shrewd in their payout scheme, ensuring that no one got paid before the show aired. Now that's the power of money.
134. AytchMan - 2/17/2001 12:33:03 AM
ace--
Oh, sure. I know they wrapped it up some time ago. I just talk about it present-tense. I thought you meant the winner was a foregone conclusion at this point.
135. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:37:41 AM
"Well, then, in what way was he open and upfront?"
I didn't actually say he was. I said that he wasn't "particularly two-faced, given the requirements of the game."
I found his candor about being in it for the money refreshing. I am SICK TO DEATH of hearing these PC, PR weasels claiming they're in it "for the adventure" or "for the experience" or "for the team" or the other fucking bullshit.
Eh. Richard didn't screw over anyone who had reason to trust him. Even when he voted against Susan in the end, Susan KNEW he was voting against her. (She voted against him in return.)
Kelly, on the other hand, was just a repulsive person. She tried buddying up to people, tried to manipulate them.
I don't see Richard as a manipulator, per se. Rather, he offered his Voting Alliance a rational reason to vote together (until the very end, of course). That's not "manipulating" anything.
The only person he manipulated was Rudy. Rudy trusted Rich. But that's Rudy's own stupid fault. How the hell can you trust your opponent?
Answer: You can't, and if you do, you're a dumbshit douchebag who deserves everything he gets.
Further, Rich was fucking SMART. He deliberately lost the last challenge (the one vs. Rudy and KellY) because he knew that:
-- Kelly would pick him as the last person going into the final round
-- Rudy would ALSO pick him as the last opponent
-- and he couldn't win the last challenge, for if he won, he was duty-bound to pick Rudy; but then, he couldn't pick Rudy, for Rudy was more sympathetic than Rich and would win the game because of this. Rich would want to pick Kelly, who was more loathesome than he. But he couldn't pick Kelly, because that would betray Rudy and therefore lose Rudy's crucial vote, which he needed to win the game.
So what did he do? He deliberately lost, so he wouldn't have to pick at all.
Smart.
136. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:42:05 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Personally, I thought he was scum.
137. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:44:12 AM
Maybe you think he was scum because he rolled over a participant you liked.
I didn't particularly like any of the contestants, except the sweet Colleen, so I didn't care too much when the Juggernaut Alliance destroyed everyone.
Actually, I found it wickedly amusing to see all the ratfucks eliminated. (Except Colleen; but she was cute, not bright.)
138. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:45:49 AM
Oh-- I also liked Rudy, of course. But of course he couldn't win.
Rudy and Rich are just a script shy of a buddy cop action adventure movie.
139. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:50:57 AM
In any event, Ms, you can't campaign endlessly on Richard Hatch's so-called "scandals." There's a new Survivor contest, in case you haven't noticed, and Richard Hatch isn't competing.
It's time to let go of your hate and just move on.
140. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:54:22 AM
Ha, that's pretty funny. I'd watch Rudy in said film but not Richard. I am repulsed by Richard.
Here's a story that reminds me of why.
There were two islands that were situated close enough for people to see one another, but far enough away that they couldn't easily cross.
One day a young girl is walking along the beach on island 1, when she sees a handsome young man on the other island. Lets call them Alice and Darryl.
They begin meeting daily, and eventually fall in love. Darryl asks Alice to marry him, and she says yes, but they have to find a way come together.
One day Alice is walking on the other side of her island and she sees a man with a boat (lets call him Cecil). She asks Cecil if he can take her over to the other island in his boat. He says yes, but only if she'll sleep with him before doing so.
Alice thinks about it for a day and decides to do as Cecil asks. She sleeps with him, and the next day he takes her over to her fiance.
Just before she and Darryl are to be married, she tells him what she did to get over to his island. He recoils in horror and says he won't marry her.
She runs away and comes across another man who asks her what was wrong(lets call him Elwyn). She tells him her story, and he says, "I'll tell you what you should do, you should stay with me and be my wife."
So she does.
Richard is Cecil in the story.
141. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 12:55:25 AM
And Okay, Ace.
I'll let go of my Richard hate for the sake of this little SurvivorII community.
142. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:58:45 AM
Ms,
What the hell kind of story is that? Brief stories like that are usually suggestive of something "more"; your story seems to REALLY just be about Alice, Darryl, and Cecil.
That's the dumbest, most pointless story I ever heard.
Further, Richard would want to sleep with Darryl, not Alice. Further further, if Alice is dumb enough to sleep with Cecil, it's her own damn fault, not Cecil's. The man named his price for the ferry-ride. She agreed. Quantum meruit, baby.
143. MsIvoryTower - 2/17/2001 1:01:47 AM
Hahaha,
Not so pointless after all to bring out such rath.
Yes, it was a silly little vignette, but Richard reminds me of the Cecil character. One can say he was honest, one can say he didn't force Alice into anything, but he's still repulsive for his exploitation of the situation.
Point well taken that he'd rather sleep with Darryl than Alice, but then, it was my story, and I don't think like a homosexual.
144. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:13:12 AM
I must say I am impressed, as ever, by Jadetard's analysis.
Jadetard tells us that the interviewers just keep needling the contestants, prodding them with leading questions, until they say something juicy, bitchy, or otherwise interesting.
In other words-- get this --Jadetard speculates that the interviewers do not settle for "We're all in this together/I like everybody/Everybody is my favorite person and I love them all" type pap, but they actually probe to get less rehearsed, less artful, more honest and more interesting responses.
Fascinating theory, Jadetard.
I hope the rest of the media doesn't catch on to this unique, innovative interviewing technique.
145. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:21:33 AM
"Remember, you're only seeing what the producers want you to see."
Really? What is the term for this innovative technique? I heard a rumor this weird technique is called "editing," and it's some sort of newfangled process by which deathly dull, repetitive bullshit is culled and interesting, dramatic stuff is highlighted.
More gems:
"How do you think they get the contestants to say snide things about one another?"
How do you think cops get criminals to confess to crimes, Jadetard?
Do you think a cop takes a criminal's first answer as the true answer, and enters it into the record unchallenged?
"But clearly the producers can 'nudge' the contestants in certain directions."
Clearly Barbara Walters can "nudge" an interviewee in certain directions. Get this-- I once saw her get Michael Jackson to speak, if eliptically, about the child-molestation charges made against him, and it was clear that he didn't want to talk about these charges at all.
How did she accomplish this feat? Wait-- Jadetard might have the facts at her fingertips:
"It's easy. Just pick a contestant who's hot, tired, wet, bug-bitten, and hungry and ask their feelings about a certain contestant. Repeat as necessary.
A good illusion is never overt. It is misdirection."
Actually, good illusions can be plenty overt. But I digress.
I am really dumbfounded by your astute analysis. Really-- who would have thought? Interviewers badgering and needling interviewees until the interviewees stop with the dishonest pap and start saying interesting, provacative things.
Alert the media.
146. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 9:20:46 AM
How do you think they get the contestants to say snide things about one another?
Have you even watched this show? How do people HERE say snide things about each other? Jeez, the show is full of egotistical, money hungry, beautiful, catty people...hmmmmmmm, let me see....how can we get them to be snide?
Get real...people will go snide on the competetions ass in a New York minute with no prodding from anyone.
And I loved Richard Hatch and picked him to win from day one. He was ruthless...ruthless people win.
147. JadeGold1 - 2/17/2001 9:53:47 AM
"How do you think cops get criminals to confess to crimes,"
Spaz's medication must be kicking in. Don't you think cops try to achieve predetermined conclusions? Of course they do. That's the point. A cop wants a nice, neat confession sealed and delivered; no messy court case, no surprises.
Same as the producers on Survivor. They have to sustain viewer interest for ten weeks. They don't want to hit week six with a cast that appeals to nobody.
More on the pig. I see PETA is investigating. They suspect the pig was drugged and guided to the camp.
148. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 10:01:35 AM
They don't want to hit week six with a cast that appeals to nobody.
Yes, god forbid they end up with the final four being Richard, Rudy, Sue, and Kelly....three of whom were the most despised people on the show. That might lead to the biggest ratings coup in all of TV on the final night.
149. JadeGold1 - 2/17/2001 10:15:47 AM
There is nothing wrong with having despised characters, Judith. The show's producers don't want bland, "nice" contestants, either.
They want interesting characters that appeal to demographics. They realize people would tune in to see Richard get kicked off the island. They knew people would love to see crusty oldster Rudy use his wiles ala Barnaby Jones.
Survivor is rigged.
You do know this, right?
So is pro wrestling.
150. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 10:24:51 AM
You needn't be so patronizing, Jade...it's a GAME SHOW. I realize this.
You might say life is rigged, also. The strong survive. You get what you pay for. Nothing is certain but death and taxes.
151. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 10:25:51 AM
And I wouldn't know about pro-wrestling...I don't watch it. Rigged, huh? Who knew....
152. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:54:14 PM
The show is not "rigged." Jadetard is being an idiot, as usual.
The pig may or may not have been planted. I speculated about it being planted a while ago.
Jadetard says they're "investigating." Who is "They"? Who is this mysterious body who "investigates" how farm animals are slaughtered?
Idiotic.
153. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:55:53 PM
In nature documentaries, the film-makers plant mantises near tarantulas, so one will kill the other.
They plant deer near leopards. So that the leopard will kill the deer.
This is not new. And no one, as far as I know, is "investigating" the plight of the poor deer.
154. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 12:58:39 PM
My "sources" tell me that if you own a wild pig, you can set it loose on your own land and hunt it down-- legally. And there's no one to "investigate" it.
155. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:06:05 PM
Mark Burnett "rigged" the show so that a back-biting, scheming, fat, pasty faggot would win the show.
Because America loves that.
He "rigged" the show so that the delectably cute bit of crumpit Colleen would lose. No one wants to see a sweet and pretty girl win.
He also "rigged" the show so that a girl with a really impressive rack (Stacey) would lose fairly early. Because Americans don't want to see big tits jiggling around on the beach in a tight bikini top for too long; they get bored.
And then they "rigged" the show so that a crusty old coot would stay in the show... for purposes of appeasing the older demographic. The least valued demographic in Television. Yuhp. Unfortunately, for unknown reasons, he didn't also "rig" the show to keep BB & Sonja in the game. Nope. Just one old coot. Just the least sympathetic old coot.
Yeahp. They "rigged" the show all right.
156. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:12:42 PM
I used "Faggot" in that last post not with the intention of being derisive towards gays, but to emphasize the absurdity of a show's producers "rigging" a show so that a homosexual would win.
A fairly ANNOYING homosexual.
A devious, annoying homosexual.
A devious, annoying, pasty-fat homosexual.
A devious, annoying, pasty-fat homosexual who likes walking around bare-ass naked, his little pasty cock hanging out and scaring both the menfolk and womenfolk.
Jadetard's interpretation:
Mark Burnett saw this devious, annoying, pasty-fat homosexual and decided: "That's it! There's my STAR! I WILL RIG THE SHOW SO THIS FAT NAKED FAG (Rich's own description of himself) WILL WIN!! AMERICA *LOVES* FAT NAKED FAGS!"
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm... okay.
157. arkymalarky - 2/17/2001 1:14:47 PM
I watched about 30 minutes of the last episode of last year's Survivor on a very scratchy picture achieved with rabbit ears. But, though I hate to admit it, this thread is entertaining for Ace's posts alone, if I never see a minute of Survivor II.
158. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 1:30:26 PM
Ace:
It is just as easy to explain the presence of the pig(let) by the fact it was disoriented from the brush fires and wandered toward the camp in search of food, which, with its superior sense of smell, it could locate.
Over in TT, they are having the same "rigged" "not rigged" discussion. I doubt this show is "rigged" but it IS edited to be more entertaining. I still think the producer would be a fool to rig this show..it's good enough as it is edited.
Jade is being a bit "jaded" in ruining Professional Wrestling for me, though....I'm crushed.
159. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:32:34 PM
Jadetard also mistakes cause for effect.
Rich isn't compelling because he's a fat naked fag. He's compelling chiefly because:
1) He got the most screen-time; and he got the most screen-time because he was the ultimate winner.
and
2) Because he won.
BB and Sonja are not compelling, chiefly because they lost, and lost early.
But had either made it to the final round, they would have been just as interesting as Rich. More sympathetic, too, in all likelihood. Or perhaps just as villainous... no one wins without screwing a few people over along the way.
Jadetard is "suspicious" because the most compelling villain won the game. That must be scripted, Jadetard decides. Um, no Jadetard. Rich was the most compelling villain BECAUSE he won. You can't win without being something of a villain.
Perhaps the Superbowl was scripted, too.
At any rate, there is a 99% chance that a compelling villain will win this edition of Survivor, too. Scripted? Rigged?
Nope. People become compelling simply because they win, and therefore get lots of screentime. People become villains in order to win.
160. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:37:34 PM
"It is just as easy to explain the presence of the pig(let) by the fact it was disoriented from the brush fires and wandered toward the camp in search of food, which, with its superior sense of smell, it could locate."
JAH:
Certainly it is possible the pig simply ran through the camp to escape the fire.
I laughed at Jeff two weeks ago, who sagely pronounced Mike wouldn't catch a pig, because there were no pigs. Of course there are pigs, Jeff. It's the fucking wilderness. You think animals only exist in zoos?
So sure, it's possible the pig wasn't planted.
I sort of think it was probably planted. I'm not sure, but I lean towards the "plant" theory.
I just don't care too much. All the challenges are "planted" -- you think a big Rubik's cube puzzle exists naturally in the rocks of the Outback? No, that was "planted" by the producers.
The drama isn't that a pig wandered through the camp... the drama is whether or not Mike will catch it, and how the rest of the tribe will respond to the grisly butchering.
Even if it was "planted," it was nothing more, really, than an unofficial "challenge." The reward for the challenge is a supply of pork. The penalty for failing the challenge is NOT having pork.
So I don't really care either way.
161. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 1:39:40 PM
Since this thing was done in October and all the film was in the can, they knew who won before they started to edit the show we are seeing now. And they did the same thing last year with S1.
162. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 1:43:06 PM
Ace:
The filming is taking place in National Parks...these "wild" animals are probaly used to seeing some human activity.
I'm with you...even if the pig had been trained to sit up and beg, there's still no guarantee that Michael would've been able to plunge the knife in up to his elbow.
163. AceofSpades - 2/17/2001 1:46:07 PM
"The filming is taking place in National Parks...these "wild" animals are probaly used to seeing some human activity."
I don't think so. Animals don't get "used" to humans unless they're domesticated, or in zoos.
A deer can see lots of humans, but it always responds the same way: It runs.
Like you say (and I say), though: It just doesn't really matter either way.
I'm surprised by one thing: The pig was very slow. I don't know how fast I imagined wild pigs were, but I figured they should be able to outpace a human, just like virtually every other animal.
But Mike caught that pig pretty quick.
164. JudithAtHome - 2/17/2001 1:48:12 PM
Well, we don't really know how quickly he caught it but maybe it had asthma, who knows?
Gotta run...guy is here to hook up my cable modem!
165. AytchMan - 2/17/2001 2:26:47 PM
Rigging or just manipulation? Let's put things in perspective here.
I think most of us agree that there's manipulation going on. Certainly of the audience -- we see only what the producers want us to see. And there has certainly been manipulation of the contestants. As I mentioned above, the host's injection of the idea of alliances into the tribal councils was blatant.
But rigging? I define rigging in terms of the quiz show scandals of the '60's. As in, deliberate cheating by aiding one contestant over another. Does anyone think that's what is going on? Jade?
166. CaroBeth - 2/17/2001 8:24:53 PM
I would agree. Manipulation, no question that is occurring. Rigging, on the other hand, I don't believe it. These people seem very capable of being devious without any help from the producers.
167. JadeGold1 - 2/17/2001 11:03:53 PM
Survivor is rigged. There's really no question except from the pro wrestling crowd.
Spaz wants to know if the Super Bowl was rigged. No, Spaz, the Giants lost because Jason Sehorn couldn't cover an XFL receiver and Kerry Collins couldn't hit the ground with a pass.
The pig is just an obvious example. They filmed the pig coming from a mile away. Heck, the camera crew alerted the camp that the pig was nearby.
168. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 8:53:59 AM
So fine...it's rigged in your opinion. You don't like it? Don't watch it.
Or watch it and feel superior to the pro wrestling crowd...they are used to it.
I'll lay odds on who enjoys the show more...
169. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:38:42 AM
If Survivor is rigged, the shapely aspiring actress will be there until the end.
170. CalGal - 2/18/2001 10:41:18 AM
That's because all the viewers are straight men? I hadn't read that.
171. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:41:57 AM
As for the pig, think bullfighting. Sure, the bull is bled and otherwise exhausted before the matador gets in the ring. But the drama exists, and the artistry remains. And sometimes, a matador makes a hash of the kill. The crowds boos. And every now and again, a matador loses his balls. The crowd ahs.
Jade has the broad sensibilities of a plate-spinner.
172. CalGal - 2/18/2001 10:43:25 AM
Besides, it occurs to me they did fine in the first show, and rigged or not, a bunch of folks stayed around to watch a naked gay man win.
Which means either that Cellar is right about all you guys in the closet, or that it's not quite as simple as letting the chick with the big boobs win.
173. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 10:44:25 AM
Not necessarily, Hoop Dreamer.
The aspiring actress will last only as long as the audience demands. When she only serves as eye-candy, she'll be out.
174. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:45:29 AM
Jade
Then Tennessee Bob is a lock!
175. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:48:24 AM
Jade
If it is "rigged", you should at least have the talent to predict the three finalists. Go for it.
176. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 10:56:22 AM
As I noted earlier, the producers don't begin with a script leading to an identified winner. That develops through the series as the public decides who the most watchable and/or interesting characters are.
It's a play where the actors are given their lines while on stage.
177. Francis Urquhart - 2/18/2001 10:58:31 AM
Jade
Well, at least we know that you watch pro wrestling. Enjoy the rigged Survivor II.
178. Indiana Jones - 2/18/2001 10:59:34 AM
So...what's your opinion of The Sopranos, JG?
Heh-heh-heh.
179. PsychProf - 2/18/2001 11:05:55 AM
My great-Uncle was Ed Don George, well known pro wrestler of another time...so what...I don't know...just so...and...the pig was rigged? Duh...but the "winner" is rigged? No...that would take the spontaneous interactions away from the contestants, substitute programmed manipulation...a state this group would fail at. Pig...yes....winner...no.
180. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 11:30:36 AM
The Sopranos is a silly show, IJ. They should drop all pretense and make it into a sit-com.
Do you think it's a documentary?
181. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 11:57:08 AM
Good lord, I hope you aren't serious? Teah, we all think James Gandolfini is a real mobster who hates his mother.
Jeez, Jade...I see now where you get your name.
Television is entertainment...we all recognize entertainment when we see it.
182. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 11:58:26 AM
Hit the wrong key again ....T is menat to be Y.
183. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 1:01:12 PM
Judith:
Thank you for explaining entertainment.
Some people consider entertainment to be dog-fighting or emailing naked pictures themselves to others. Whatever floats your
boat.
Survivor is just Gilligan's Island without professional actors.
184. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 1:06:53 PM
Okay...I get it now. You don't think it's worthy of our interest. I'll let you know if you were right after the last episode.
And I wasn't explaining entertainment...I just know it when I see it. The fact you don't doesn't bother me.
Which leads one to wonder: if this is so horrible to you, what are some the things you do like?
185. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 1:11:18 PM
Judith:
Whatever floats your boat. Heck, I watch a lot of Teletubbies and Clifford the Big Red Dog.
But I don't pretend it's real or the utmost in entertainment.
186. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 1:18:24 PM
Sorry your show got the ax...I couldn't believe they axed the Teletubbies!
Hey, I'm not saying this is award winning material here...it's mildly amusing and entertaining, that's all. And yes, I like it. You don't. I'll watch it and you won't...big deal. If we all liked the same things, it would get pretty dull.
I see nothing will change in this discussion even if we post all day on the subject. So I'm leaving the arena. Enjoy your Thursday evenings!
187. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 1:23:08 PM
Would you watch Survivor if you knew it was rigged?
188. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 2:02:10 PM
jade--
I doubt it. Which brings me back to:
As I noted earlier, the producers don't begin with a script leading to an identified winner. That develops through the series as the public decides who the most watchable and/or interesting characters are.
How does the public decide who are the most watchable characters?
189. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 2:05:56 PM
H Man:
By all the requests for the Richard Hatch Action Doll, of course!
190. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 2:15:31 PM
Ha.
It brings up the obvious question of how the audience can affect the direction of something that's already in the can.
191. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 2:20:06 PM
No kidding...unless it was "an audience of editors". Maybe Jade thinks they edit this as they go...not so.
192. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 2:27:10 PM
Aytch:
The public doesn't. As you know, the Survivor series is shot several months before the episodes are aired.
What the producers do is use focus groups and their own internal review to determine which contestants appeal to the audience.
193. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 2:28:13 PM
Aytch:
The public doesn't. As you know, the Survivor series is shot several months before the episodes are aired.
What the producers do is use focus groups and their own internal review to determine which contestants appeal to the audience. Then they ensure those contestants advance and the others do not.
194. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 2:30:48 PM
And you know this how?
195. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 2:42:30 PM
The producers have no choice, Judith.
They don't want to be in week 6 of a 10 week season with nobody watching. It's not like a TV sit-com or drama where the network can just pull the plug and air pilots or reruns of popular shows. They are stuck with airing the full season.
196. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 2:50:02 PM
Oh, so you are so sure that they rigged it not because you know someone working on the show but because of something you've surmised about the way things work, usually?
I think they have people in charge of choosing "interesting" people before the show ever starts...sure, they edit it for drama and cut out the boring and mundane and they may show the finished product to a test group or two and tweak it after; I doubt it though because that would just mean more people out there who might spoil the ending. But the show is in the can and it is run without overnight polls. This isn't politics...
197. labwabbit - 2/18/2001 2:52:57 PM
I think I'm going to shoot this Wilson-guy PP keeps threatening to do.
198. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 3:02:55 PM
jade--
The show's ratings have been through the roof since about the third episode of Survivor 1. Why risk it? Are the producers ignorant of the quiz show scandal of the '60's? That scandal destroyed that market niche for decades. Are they that foolish?
199. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 3:06:05 PM
No, they are not...this guy Burnett (or Barnett or whatever his name is) is making a fortune off this series and he's not going to jeopardize that at all.
200. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 3:10:05 PM
Aytch:
In a word: yes.
Money often makes people do foolish things. It will make people foolishly repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.
There is an element of plausible deniability for CBS. They can say that they don't know who will be the winner when they begin the series. They can say they don't vote anyone off the series.
201. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 3:21:47 PM
jade--
With all due respect, that's not very convincing. It's certainly true that money sometimes makes people do stupid things. But why pick this generality over any other?
Why not: concern for his fellow man? Therefore, Burnett is producing the best, most honorable show he can? What do you know about Burnett?
202. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 3:23:09 PM
Money often makes people do foolish things. It will make people foolishly repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.
Yes, it has made the producers make another show that is topping all the ratings for the nights it is shown...money and success do that to ya'!
203. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 3:28:30 PM
That's true, Judith. It goes back to my contention that the show's producers will manipulate the outcomes in order to keep this cash cow going.
Pro wrestling is also a huge success.
204. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 3:44:26 PM
But you fail to notice they don't have to manipulate it if they choose the participants wisely, which they do.
You keep mentioning pro wrestling as though I give a rats ass about it...I don't. But I'm getting the impression you do...
205. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 3:57:09 PM
It's a risk that CBS and the producers can't take, Judith. Your belief that CBS can audition and choose a diverse, interesting group and leave them to compete on a level playing field is very naive.
No matter how well you select, you can't predict how these contestants will perform under stress, boredom, in physical situations, or interacting with fellow contestants.
The stakes are too high for the network to leave this to chance.
206. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:01:05 PM
Okay, kids, I think we've beaten this one to death. One vote for outright rigging, several for manipulation. Moving along...
Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day:
What's the best strategy? If you won a spot as a contestant on Survivor 3, how would you proceed? Cutthroat? Mr./Ms. Congeniality? Low Profile?
207. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:06:13 PM
H Man:
Obviously it doesn't matter since I will be doing what the script tells me will bring in the best q rating...:-)
208. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:07:26 PM
Gamesmanship strategy doesn't matter, Aytch. The show is rigged.
The "strategy" is to be as interesting as possible; that may mean being controversial, taking off your clothes, etc.
209. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:10:24 PM
jade--
Noted. I'll address the question to those who don't think so.
210. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:12:29 PM
Tellme, Aytch. Why do you believe the show isn't rigged?
211. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:18:03 PM
I think being below the radar is a good way for the first half of the show...after the merge, being nice will likely get you booted because you want the worst ones up against you in the final four. But if you're too much of a cutthroat after the merge, the bootees who vote in the end will do you in, no matter.
I don't know what is best...but being like Richard, helpful and nice enough to the camp but showing his scheming and manipulative side to the camera, may not work this time or next either.
212. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:18:50 PM
A hypothetical: say, for example, "alliances" are forming among the contestants. A certain contestant who can tilt the competition in one diection or another refuses to join the "alliances."
If a show's producer approached this certain contestant and convinced him to join a certain alliance, is that manipulation?
Would that convince the true believers the show was rigged?
213. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:21:52 PM
jade--
That's sort of like asking for proof of a negative.
Nevertheless, I think the evidence you've cited suggests, at worst, manipulation but not rigging. By all accounts, Burnett is a very smart guy and I don't believe he would risk what is already a huge success.
214. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:23:52 PM
My 213 was addressed to 210.
215. PelleNilsson - 2/18/2001 4:24:14 PM
JadeGold doesn't think things through. OK, so assume the show is rigged. But it is not outright scripted but the way it goes will depend on focus groups and such. So what, then, is the strategy to get the focus groups on your side?
216. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:26:47 PM
What's the difference between rigging and manipulation in what is supposed to be a game?
217. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:32:05 PM
No, Jade, the question is:
What is the difference between the alleged rigging and the alleged manipulation in this game?
Because I've seen nothing but allegations that it is rigged...are you basing all this "rigging" BS on Stacey Stillmans lawsuit?
218. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:32:36 PM
Aytch's "evidence" that Survivor is a legitimate competition is that Burnett is a smart guy. Aytch also assumes that success is only achieved fairly without manipulation.
I'd submit the $64,000 Question and game shows of that era were produced by smart guys and were very popular with the audiences.
219. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:36:02 PM
jade--
I thought I defined it above. Rigging is outright fraud --delivering a winner based on what the producers want. Manipulation is stage-management, editing out of context for audience appeal, tossing in a pig for a team to kill to add a little drama.
220. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:39:49 PM
I'd submit the $64,000 Question and game shows of that era were produced by smart guys and were very popular with the audiences.
Yes, and when they broke the rules, they were busted and that resulted in the laws of today that you never hear of people blatantly breaking...or at least, most of us mortals don't hear of it. You may have a pipeline we aren't privy to...
221. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:45:23 PM
Distinctions without a difference, Aytch. Do you seriously believe giving one group more food than another isn't going to benefit that group over another?
222. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 4:50:03 PM
Aytch:
i don't pretend to have any "pipeline." I was acquainted with Richard Hatch, prior to his Survivor-fame.
The blatant rigging of the show is really quite blatant.
223. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 4:50:19 PM
jade--
Good point. My error. Scratch the pig example. The difference is determining the outcome versus packaging the show for audience appeal.
224. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 4:53:12 PM
Jade:
Are you saying Richard told you the show is rigged? Fascinating that you've known Hatch all this time.
225. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 5:05:20 PM
Aytch:
You have exotic locales, imaginative competitions, diverse personlities. Shouldn't that be enough to ensure audience appeal?
226. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 5:06:26 PM
Judith:
As I said, I knew Hatch prior to his Survivor-fame.
227. AytchMan - 2/18/2001 5:10:57 PM
jade--
And it does. Survivor is a big hit. Set in an IKEA warehouse, Big Brother went down the tubes.
228. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 5:35:50 PM
As I said, I knew Hatch prior to his Survivor-fame.
I knew Charlie Rose prior to his current fame, too....
So do you still know Hatch? Or did he drop all his old buds after he became famous?:-)
229. JadeGold1 - 2/18/2001 5:43:10 PM
Judith:
I wouldn't say that I was his "bud."
As you may or may not know, Hatch did corporate training in DC as well as other cities. He was put on a contractual vehicle under my purview for some services. As such, I've had some contact with him.
IMO, Hatch was selected by the show producers to win because they understood that he would draw viewers; people would tune in to see him get voted off or to hear what new catty remark he'd make.
Personally, I enjoyed his dancing.
230. JudithAtHome - 2/18/2001 5:46:42 PM
Well, the producers were right about that...I picked him to win from day one and actually won some money off sticking to my pick throughout the run of the show.
231. Uzmakk - 2/18/2001 9:41:37 PM
What day is this show on? Fox?
232. MsIvoryTower - 2/18/2001 10:25:49 PM
Richard was a scumbag.
The end.
Uzzmak, the show is on Thursdays, 7pm, on CBS (I think).
233. Uzmakk - 2/18/2001 10:32:39 PM
Thank you MsIT, and hello.
234. MsIvoryTower - 2/18/2001 10:39:58 PM
Hey Uzmakk,
You notice I always misspell your name. The correct spelling just won't stick with me. So sorry.
And how are things on the steppe?
235. Autodaffy - 2/19/2001 12:02:29 AM
The pig got really disoriented when that pike went up his ass and he found himself rotating at 400 degrees.
236. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 12:38:11 PM
Back to the strategy question from yesterday:
What's the best strategy? If you won a spot as a contestant on Survivor 3, how would you proceed? Mr./Ms. Congeniality? Try for leadership or keep a low profile? Actively build an alliance or let them come to you?
237. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 12:50:44 PM
My strategy hasn't changed since yesterday. Where's Ace? I think I might know what his is...ha!
238. CaroBeth - 2/19/2001 2:04:48 PM
I'd probably be Ms. Congeniality - that's my natural personality and I'm not good at changing it. I'd be friendly and help out and probably let the alliances come to me. I'd be watching everybody REALLY carefully, though. I can be a bit bossy, so I'd probably be a junior leader, rather than keeping too low a profile.
239. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 2:10:40 PM
hi carobeth--
Would you play it like poker (bluff and lie) or be honorable right down the line?
240. CalGal - 2/19/2001 2:25:41 PM
I'd be rebel leader and reject all alliances, telling people that alliances are for weenies. People would in equal parts love me or loathe me, and I would either be booted out early or surprise everyone with my strong finish. I would never win, because the machinations required for such an outcome would run contrary to all my strengths. But if I had a strong finish, fully half the people would be convinced that I could only have done so by convincing my followers to conspire on my behalf.
241. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 2:38:23 PM
cal--
I'm confident there's a name for that in some psychiatric text somewhere.
Would you keep your word or play poker?
242. PelleNilsson - 2/19/2001 2:40:08 PM
I have never seen the show, but I would probably pull out my awesome conpiratorial skills, honed by years of office politics in the Arab world. The kind that makes people fail to realise, until they try to walk, that their legs have been cut at the knee
243. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 2:48:15 PM
pelle--
I think the original show actually came from Dutch TV (those renowned conspirators).
An Arab politician would do very well on the show. In Survivor 1, a solid alliance of four people won through but I wonder if a policy of shifting alliances would serve better now.
244. CalGal - 2/19/2001 2:50:01 PM
Aytch,
I'd always tell the truth. However, I have on more than one occasion been known to tell exactly the truth in such a way that people who aren't paying attention will come to the wrong conclusion. But if they are paying attention, they can always ask the extra questions that I would also answer accurately.
Most people don't pay attention. But it is an awesome power, and one that invariably invokes rage once it has been discovered, so it must be used sparingly.
Generally, I tell exactly and all the truth without relying on the only out I have.
245. CalGal - 2/19/2001 2:51:36 PM
Aytch,
Ack. I thought you were asking a different question.
I would reject all alliances, and yes, I would do that all the way down the line.
However, if someone were to ask me if I'd formed an alliance and I could answer "no" truthfully in a way to make them think I was lying, and this was to my advantage, I would.
246. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 2:59:26 PM
cal--
I don't see how you could survive without any alliances. Would you reject them as a game strategy or on some personal principle?
247. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 3:02:16 PM
Never actually seen an episode of this program, being where I am and all. Can't say that I mind, but I am curious what all the fuss is about this show. I have tried to find some site that tells me what the general rules of the "game" are: what they can bring and not bring, how the voting proceeds, etc., with no luck.
For example, I see that one person brought a shaving kit as a "luxury item," while some moron brought a Texas State flag. What good is a flag going to do him? Anyway, if anybody knows where I can find the general rules and regulations that the contestants must follow, I'd be most happy.
248. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:05:24 PM
The Texas flag actually came in handy as a tarp...
249. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:06:28 PM
...and at the top of this page is a list of places for you to acquaint yourself with the show...it's called Related Links.
250. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 3:07:21 PM
Duh! Thanks Judith!
A tarp, eh?
251. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:11:10 PM
Yes, and his teammates were pretty happy with the shade it provided. So you just never know what will come in handy!
252. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 3:14:54 PM
kth--
I can summarize it for you.
16 people are dumped in a wilderness and organized into two teams. They are provided with some food and gear but not much. They very definitely must organize and provide their own food and shelter. The contestants on the first show last summer all lost a lot of weight.
Every three days, there is a reward competition to gain some survival gear (matches, blankets, whatever). More importantly, there is an Immunity challenge, some test of athletic skill. The losing team must vote out one of their members that night in the hokey but entertaining Tribal Council.
The final survivor receives a cool million dollars. The others get less based on how long they managed to hang on.
Much of the interest revolves around the interpersonal dynamics as alliances are formed and backs are stabbed.
253. CaroBeth - 2/19/2001 3:21:01 PM
Good question regarding the bluffing. I don't know that I'm much good at that, so I'd probably try to answer truthfully. I'd probably try to do as CalGal suggested - tell the truth, but being careful as to how the answer is presented.
I think, if I were in the right frame of mind, that I could kick some butt on this program.
254. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 3:33:41 PM
Aytch,
Thanks for the help. Tell me, can one tribe go "hunt down" another tribe's site and do some sabatoge, or steal things, etc.?
Also, once you get to 3 or 2 contestants, how does the voting take place?
255. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 3:40:21 PM
Reading through the CBS site (I'm through episode 2) back stabbing is a major part of the game it seems. If you are a really ugly person and can sway others against someone, that seems to work early on. But I can't imagine such a person would ultimately be trusted by anybody as the game progressed.
256. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 3:40:51 PM
kth--
No, the tribes operate independently. I forgot to mention that, when there are eight people left, the two tribes merge into one.
The last two contestants are voted on by the Jury Of Embittered Rejects (the most recent 7 people to get voted off). And, judging from Survivor 1, there is not a more bellicose and resentful bunch in the known Cosmos.
257. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 3:45:43 PM
kth 255--
There's really a lot of subtlety to it. Richard, the winner from Survivor 1, was quite a conniver. But he wielded his knife brilliantly. None of his opponents suspected until the blade was already in. In fact, the host resorted to asking pointed questions in order to clue in some of the lambs. Even this didn't help some of them, like Sean (the Moron).
258. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:47:41 PM
Oh man...I loooove this:
Jury Of Embittered Rejects
You really ought to trademark that one, H!
259. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:51:39 PM
I think being nice and being helpful is good but you also have to keep an eye toward the final 4...you want to be nice enough to stay in but not so nice as to pose a threat to the Vipers. I don't think I could bluff well...I'm lousy at poker. And according to some who know me, I can be sneaky...of course, I don't see that in myself.(s™)
260. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 3:54:36 PM
judith--
You saw the finale last year, didn't you? Am I not speaking the truth? What a carnival.
261. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 3:56:29 PM
H Man:
Yeah, I loved it, too...."If you were laying in the desert and dogs were picking your bones...." Lord, that was classic entertainment!
262. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 4:01:47 PM
carobeth--
I think, if I were in the right frame of mind, that I could kick some butt on this program.
Judging by the zucchini-like trance several of the contestants are in, I don't doubt it.
But I'm not so sure that a program of straight honesty would win. Don't the sociologists tell us that a mix of honesty and deceit is generally more successful?
263. KuligintheHooligan - 2/19/2001 4:08:14 PM
Vote off the vegetarian. I'm already sick of her just from what I have read!
264. AytchMan - 2/19/2001 4:13:54 PM
kth--
I don't think she's long for the show. She almost cost her team one of the competitions by balking at eating a worm or something. Then she practically had a nervous breakdown when her team caught and killed a pig. I guess she expects to survive on tree bark for six weeks.
265. arkymalarky - 2/19/2001 4:35:30 PM
If I were a producer, I'd want to keep her around for awhile just knowing the fun people would get from watching her gross out every episode--not implying that I agree with Jade that the show was rigged, or anything.
As far as strategy is concerned, it seems that if you weren't in it for a complete win you'd be crazy or a glutton for punishment--so once in, whatever it takes--lying, alliances, backstabbing, niceness, eating worms, etc, and you'd have to be able to shift with the circumstances, which means you'd have to be constantly aware of what they are. It seems that you'd have to ignore whatever your normal persona is and take one on strictly for the competition. I don't think a set strategy could win it.
266. JudithAtHome - 2/19/2001 4:38:43 PM
I'm not competetive...don't like sports, etc. so I probably wouldn't do well on this show but at least I'd know how to cook rice properly.
Everyone crabs about the rice and how mushy it is...I'll bet money they don't wash the rice and are used to Uncle Bens anyhow.
267. arkymalarky - 2/19/2001 4:56:08 PM
I'm very competitive, but laziness trumps it every time. I'd get put on the first boat out, truth be known. Feed me a worm, but don't make me pitch a tent, wash my clothes by hand, etc.
268. CaroBeth - 2/19/2001 7:10:53 PM
Arky, I agree. I don't think that you could stick with a set strategy. Too many variables.
Now, see, I could handle the tent and washing clothes by hand, fishing, even gutting the pig. Eating a worm I could not do. I can't even watch it on TV.
269. rubberducky - 2/20/2001 10:36:15 AM
"It's amazing how poorly they're playing the game, given the leads we gave them."
-- Richard Hatch on his successors in "Survivor 2."
is he right? what would Hatch do differently?
270. MsIvoryTower - 2/20/2001 10:45:32 AM
Hatch is puffing up.
He was damn lucky in SurvivorI, had he the slightest competition for strategy, he'd have been kicked off by the tribal merge.
But I think it's an excellent question. What would the bullshit man of the hour do differently?
271. JudithAtHome - 2/20/2001 10:48:18 AM
I think Richard played the game brilliantly...and one thing he would probably do if he were on the Ogre team would be to get rid of Jerri.
272. RosettaStone - 2/20/2001 10:53:07 AM
You almost make the program sound interesting.
I'll have to watch the show this Thursday night. Snuggle up with my beautiful, award-winning wife on the sofa...the usual.
273. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 10:54:18 AM
It's rigged.
Hatch is just engaging in what he does best: self-promotion.
274. Francis Urquhart - 2/20/2001 10:57:51 AM
Jade
Wow. Do you really think Survivor is rigged?
275. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 10:59:09 AM
Just like a bullfight, Niner.
276. Francis Urquhart - 2/20/2001 11:01:20 AM
Wow. So, when a bullfighter gets gored, that's rigged too?
What a scam.
277. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 11:13:20 AM
Doesn't matter, Niner. Even if a bull gores nine matadors, he's hanger steak at the end of the day. Some ignoramus will be dangling his ears as a trophy.
One would have thought Gonzaga taught you better.
278. JudithAtHome - 2/20/2001 12:10:48 PM
Rosetta...your plagerism is not amusing. But of course, it IS...the usual.
279. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 12:16:41 PM
BTW, Les Halles has the best hanger steak (Onglet à l'Échalote) in DC. The pommes frites are to die for.
280. AceofSpades - 2/20/2001 1:18:55 PM
Richard Hatch got very lucky. He won an immunity challenge just when Sue Hatch & Kelly were about to vote him off the island. They never got a second chance.
But then, anyone who wins a competition is the beneficiary of luck somewhere along the way.
281. AceofSpades - 2/20/2001 1:19:33 PM
Errrr... well, I suppose he got lucky in the sense that the producers "rigged" the show for the annoying, pasty-fat homosexual to win, too.
282. JadeGold1 - 2/20/2001 1:55:04 PM
Spaz continues his ignorance. Hatch won because the producers surmised that he engendered the most interest from the audience.
My guess is the producers, in Survivor I, wanted Sean to win. He was photogenic and a neurosurgeon. Unfortunately, he also came across as vacuous and not at all interesting. Sean seemed to be more interested in a post-Survivor career than in winning.
The producers selected Hatch because he dished on everyone and had an arrogance which would make the audience tune in to see him get voted off. He did and said outrageous things.
283. RosettaStone - 2/20/2001 3:49:22 PM
Hatch won because he was a homosexual.
Everyone knows that...
284. joezan - 2/20/2001 10:01:27 PM
COMING UP ON EPISODE FIVE
The next episode of "Survivor" begins with a warning: "The following show contains scenes of slaughter and bloodlust that may be disturbing, particularly for the creatures being slaughtered. Viewer discretion is advised, as is videotaping." Michael, having whet his appetite for death last week, is delighted to catch and hack up another wild pig, this one even smaller and cuter. "This is some pig!" he tells the tribe, smearing its innards on his face. "I know because it said so on the spider web above his head. Also, I killed the spider." As the nearby wildfire continues to rage, other creatures are flushed into Mike’s killing grounds include Babe, Thumper and two Ewoks.
Although Kucha is eating well now, Kimmi won’t stop whining about the cuisine. "I don’t eat mammals!" she shrieks, in case no one heard her the first fifty times. "Why doesn’t somebody kill a worm? I can eat a worm!" Attempts to explain to Kimmi that chickens are not mammals go nowhere. Nick tries to entice her by again quipping,"Once you go dark meat, you never go back." Then Jeff argues in favor of cooking the male bird by declaring, "I love to eat cock." Finally, Mike goes off to slay more animals for his unholy sacrifice, but the tables are turned when he is set upon by a pack of specially-trained wild boars that eat his face.
285. joezan - 2/20/2001 10:02:12 PM
Scenes of Ogakor are preceded by another warning: "The following tribe contains some of the dumbest people ever, even without Mitchell." While the tribe attempts to extinguish the wildfire using rockslides, dead wood and car batteries, Jerri tries to woo Colby back into the Union by explaining the importance of benefits and overtime pay and by singing Woody Guthrie ballads. Jerri explains that the Union is only the vanguard of broader social change and that a revolution is coming, to be followed by a dictatorship of the proletariat. Colby replies that his brain hurts and they go off hunting. "Oh cowboy, you are all muscle," Jerri coos at him. "Especially your big long spear." Watching them, Keith declares himself "miffeded and disgustified." When they return, Jerri makes Colby give her a piggyback ride across the river so she won’t melt.
The immunity challenge continues where last week’s reward challenge puzzle left off. This time, the survivors compete to get a giant ball on a string into a giant plastic cup, move a giant chain into the shape of a giant guy’s nose, and use a giant magnet to give a guy a beard made of giant iron filings. Kucha wins easily as Ogakor struggles to remember which part of the face is the nose.
At Tribal Council Jeff Probst begins by saying, "I just want to observe that Kucha is making you its bitch. Can’t you losers do anything right?"
286. joezan - 2/20/2001 10:02:40 PM
When the votes are counted, there is a tie: three votes each for Amber and Eduardo. Told to make their cases before the revote, Amber stuns her teammates by telling them she’s weak and tired and never gets any airtime anyway, so they might as well vote her off. Eduardo says, "I agree. Vote Amber off." When the votes are counted again, the result is another tie. Although the rules say that any previous Tribal Council votes are now added, neither Amber nor Eduardo has any prior votes against them. ("Frankly, I never even noticed them before," Tina confesses.) Jeff Probst announces that the next stage is to turn over the vote to the Supreme Court, which rules 5-4 that the winner of the million dollars is George W. Bush.
287. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 12:14:18 AM
Since the Bragging Rights Pool approacheth, here's a brief bio on the remaining contestants [edited from official CBS website]:
Alicia --Personal trainer in Manhattan. Past professions include computer graphic artist and aerobics instructor. Self-described as charismatic, competent and passionate. Won the Ms. Connecticut Amateur Natural Bodybuilding Competition in 1994. CPR-certified with the American Red Cross. Age 32. Luxury item: brush.
Amber -- a recent college graduate from Beaver, Pennsylvania, B.A. in Public Relations. Prior to departing for Australia, she was an administrative assistant and lived with her parents. While attending school, worked as waitress, librarian assistant, swimming instructor, lifeguard and babysitter. Hobbies are going out with her friends, dancing and just generally having fun. Belongs to the Catholic Church. Age 22. Luxury item: journal and pen.
Colby -- Originally from Christoval, Texas. Self-employed custom auto designer and builder living in Dallas. Graduate of Texas Tech with a degree in business marketing. Left corporate job to start his own company. Self-described as imaginative, dedicated and flexible. Enjoys designing and building furniture. Favorite sport to watch is football, but he prefers to play sand volleyball. Age 26. Luxury item: Texas flag.
Elisabeth -- Recent graduate of Boston College. Lives in Massachusetts. Footwear designer. Spends her free time creating greeting cards and personalized planners. Spent time in Belize teaching in the rainforest. Self-described as impulsive, intuitive, and devoted. Enjoys watching football, playing outdoor sports, and listening to her brother on the guitar. Age 23. Luxury item: immunity head dress (?!?).
288. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 12:15:34 AM
Jerri -- Lives in Los Angeles. Bartends while pursuing an acting career. Biggest accomplishment was a play that she and best friend wrote, directed and produced. Has had roles in several films and commercials. Grew up as "army brat", moving every three to four years. Self-described as adventurous, fun-loving, spontaneous, honest, and kind. Hobbies include photography, cooking, painting, writing, reading, and her all-time favorite, camping. Favorite event is Burning Man, the annual festival in the Nevada desert. Favorite TV shows are The Sopranos and Sex and the City. Age 30. Luxury item: bongos.
Jeff --Internet project manager, recently worked as Director of People and Process [now there's a definitive job title] for a Manhattan start-up. B. A. in journalism. Aggressive athlete, plays competitive hockey. Studied martial arts, received a black belt in Tae Kwon Do at age 15. Captain of the 1989 National Champion UNC Tar Heel Cheer Team. Avid rollerblader. Self-described as provocative, energetic, competitive, adventurous, and a free spirit. Likes all kinds of music, especially that which motivates. Lives in Manhattan. Member of Society of Human Resources. Volunteer for organizations and charities that support kids in need. Luxury item: coloring book and crayons.
Keith The Chef -- Lives in Michigan. Opened two restaurants, 1988 and 1996, both featured in Esquire Magazine. Appeared in cooking shows on local Detroit television stations. Produced and hosted one-hour prime time Emmy-nominated special, a documentary based on a journey through Vietnam. New cookbook about to be published. Self-described as creative, adventurous, and just happy to be alive each day. Divorced father of two kids. President of the Rainbow Connection, a non-profit organization that grants wishes for children with life-threatening illnesses Age: 41. Luxury item: paiella pan.
289. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 12:16:21 AM
Kimmi The Vegetarian -- Bartender on Long Island, freelances as production assistant for television commercials. B.A. fom NYIT. Self-described as spontaneous, outgoing and creative. Hobbies are photography, gardening, and reading. Favorite TV shows are Win Ben Stein's Money and The Simpsons. Favorite movies are Cruel Intentions and Beauty and the Beast. Prefers a good game of Trivial Pursuit or Scrabble when she has time. Single. Luxury item: Scrabble set.
Michael The Pig-Slayer -- Founder and President of software publishing and distribution company. Also founded a motivational speaking company. Bachelor of Business Management from Western Michigan University. Married with three kids and lots of pets. Self-described as adventurous, a thrill-seeker, and a risk taker. Favorite TV shows are ESPN SportsCenter and Seinfeld. Favorite movie is Meet Joe Black. Likes to hunt [no kidding], barefoot water-ski and play ice hockey. Age 39. Luxury item: war paint.
Nick --Entering second year at Harvard Law School. Plans to join the Army's Judge Advocate General's office. Attended Morehouse College. Currently an officer in the United States Army. Previously a research assistant for the Human Rights Commission and has done some modelling. Lives in Washington State. Self-described as compassionate, incisive, and ambitious. Member of the Black Law Students Association. Age 23. Luxury item: frisbee.
290. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 12:16:50 AM
Kentucky Joe -- Born, raised and still lives in Crittenden, Kentucky. Married for 33 years. B.S. and M.S. in Education from Eastern Kentucky University. Teacher, part-time farmer and real estate investor. Previously, CEO of a bank, owned lumber company and hardware store. Self-described as a workaholic, inventive, diligent and adaptable. Elder at the Crittenden Christian Church, member of the local Sportsmen Club. Age 54. Luxury item: bible.
Tina --Private duty nurse, full-time mom. Has worked as community education director, flight attendant, substitute teacher and a swimming instructor. B. S. in therapeutic recreation [what the hell is that?] from University of Tennessee. Completed the Dublin Marathon, won State Racquetball Tournament, won her age bracket in hometown mini-triathlon. Wants to "live the life less ordinary". Self-described as happy, content, adventurous, outgoing, an early riser and very much in love. Hobbies are racquetball, running, swimming, and motorcycling. Favorite TV show is Rosie. Married with two kids. Lives in Tennessee. Luxury item: backgammon set.
291. joezan - 2/21/2001 7:01:41 AM
B. S. in therapeutic recreation [what the hell is that?]
Recreation as therapy, natch. Developing pro-social skills, etc.
Also as diagnostic tool - play patterns, frustration points, etc.
Nowadays, many rec therapists become elementary gym teachers or (with advanced degrees), facilitators for "wilderness experience" team-building outfits.
292. Jenerator - 2/21/2001 9:12:25 AM
I lost interest in the first Survivor and have only seen one episode of the second series. Hatch always came across as a narcssistic whiner and was completely uninteresting.
An attorney who works in the building tried out for it (Surv.II). We were disappointed he didn't get chosen.
293. rubberducky - 2/21/2001 9:43:29 AM
back to the 1st one for a tic
CBS on Tuesday filed a $5 million countersuit against former Survivor castaway Stacey Stillman, claiming the San Francisco lawyer is guilty of breach of contract, extortion and defamation.
Stillman, the third contestant booted from last year's Survivor, sued CBS and executive producer Mark Burnett two weeks ago, essentially claiming the show was rigged. But by doing so, CBS now claims Stillman broke her confidentiality agreement with the network, which states that contestants can be held liable for $5 million in damages if they reveal inside information about the show.
...
Stillman filed her complaint against CBS and Burnett February 5 in San Francisco County Superior Court, claiming the executive producer helped arrange her exit and "orchestrated" the show's outcome. Stillman, 28, claims Burnett convinced contestants Sean Kenniff and Dirk Been to vote her off instead of irascible 72-year-old retired Navy SEAL Rudy Boesch--presumably out of fear that the show would kick off all of its older contestants too early.
if there's one thing worse than a whiney loser - it's a whiney loser willing to file a lawsuit.
294. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 9:51:54 AM
Though Survivor is rigged, Stillman's suit is pretty weak.
Unless she can get those two contestants to admit they were influenced by the show's producers, her suit is going nowhere.
295. rubberducky - 2/21/2001 9:59:11 AM
i agree she has little chance, JG
you think CBS will slam her with the full $5 mil?
296. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 10:08:43 AM
I doubt it, RD. Unless she gets really ugly and starts talking about Survivor behind the scenes.
It's in CBS' best interest to see that this suit gets as little attention as possible. CBS doesn't want the public to see the show is rigged.
297. JudithAtHome - 2/21/2001 10:18:35 AM
and a neurosurgeon
Just for the record, Sean wasn't a neurosurgeon...he was a neurologist.
298. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 10:24:32 AM
I stand corrected, Judith.
If you saw Survivor I, Sean was clearly a favorite of the producers until he began to display a very real passive attitude toward winning.
299. JudithAtHome - 2/21/2001 10:27:12 AM
Actually, I never saw that the producers preferred Sean, unless you call highlighting the fact he was such a profound doofus as a sign they preferred him.
300. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 10:34:01 AM
I agree that he was a doofus, Judith. That's why the producers got rid of him.
They gave him him every opportunity but he was apparently more interested in a post-Survivor TV career.
301. AceofSpades - 2/21/2001 12:12:25 PM
Think Spiro Agnew, Judith.
302. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 1:17:44 PM
Professor Lowbrow's Question Of The Day.
Where will the reality shows be in five to ten years? A staple of primetime TV? A distant memory? Fondly remembered as the second major TV scandal (for fraud)?
303. JadeGold1 - 2/21/2001 1:21:36 PM
I think they'll be going strong.
They're cheap to produce and the viewing audience has no limit when it comes to watching people degrade or humiliate themselves.
Conflict sells.
I think the premise will change to using random selection of contestants, fewer contestants, and shorter competition cycles.
304. Wombat - 2/21/2001 1:25:22 PM
They ought to have "real" survivor shows. Parachute a bunch of idiots out of a plane somewhere desolate and give them two weeks to find their way back to civilzation. Winner gets $1 million. Losers die. Film the whole damn thing.
305. Wombat - 2/21/2001 1:34:27 PM
1st week: Jennie gets dismembered by a Leopard.
2nd week: Biff gets killed by headhunters and his head is shrunk.
3rd week: Jolene dies of gangrene from the compound fractures she got when she messed up her parachute landing.
4th week: Justin goes insane after drinking from an alkali pool.
etc., etc.
306. AytchMan - 2/21/2001 1:40:30 PM
wombat--
4ha. I'm confident you can get thirteen weeks on the WB. It'll be their breakout show.
307. arkymalarky - 2/22/2001 8:38:34 PM
Hey, I'd watch a show like that.
308. Uzmakk - 2/22/2001 8:40:01 PM
Tried to watch Survivor tonight. 10 minutes was as much as I could bare.
309. Uzmakk - 2/22/2001 8:41:24 PM
i.e., bear
310. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 9:35:49 PM
Heh, heh, heh...
Next week on Survivor: Someone gets attacked by a crocodile. For real.
"Rigged," Jadetard?
311. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 9:39:00 PM
Rigged, Spaz.
The fact that some contestant gets too close to the wildlife or sprains an ankle or picks at her bugbites is immaterial.
The producers will give the most interesting contestant preference.
312. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 9:56:51 PM
Jadetard,
Okay. Then tell us-- who wins?
You claim they will pick the winner based on who is most "interesting" or "preferred." And that's something you can judge for yourself, since you claim the producers are only giving you what YOU want.
So tell us who wins, Genius. Tell us the final four, dipshit.
313. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:01:48 PM
Spaz:
As you know the shows are edited; it is too early to tell. Right now, all we're seeing is the introductions of the unwitting actors.
The final three are fairly obvious.
314. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:11:32 PM
I would add, Spaz, that I am somewhat surprised you haven't figured this show out.
Perhaps I gave you too much credit.
Quite simply, each Survivor "competition" must outdo the previous. After all, viewers are being asked to make an "investment" of watching the bulk of 10 shows. Reality-based shows are based on viewers getting to know, like, or dislike certain contestants.
Now, put yourself in the position of a producer. You know you must outdo your previous effort. You understand that viewership depends upon audience interest in the contestants. Do you roll the dice and hope everything works out? Or do you load the dice?
315. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:18:20 PM
The final three are fairly obvious.
Then, pray tell, who are these obvious final three?
Of course, you won't tell us...might spoil our fun.
316. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:21:58 PM
Quite right, Judith.
You may even suspect who they are.
317. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:22:01 PM
Jadetard,
Suuuuuuuuuuuure.
I seem to remember laws being passed against this after the 1950's quiz show scandals.
But I'm sure they're breaking the laws, anyway. That's why they film outside the country-- to avoid jurisdiction. And Mark Burnett is a Brit, right?
It all adds up.
Think Spiro Agnew.
318. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:25:05 PM
Why am I not surprised you want to sustain the suspense?
As a matter of fact, I do suspect who they are and I plan on telling at the end of the next to last show, just like you.
319. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:31:58 PM
Spaz:
I told you earlier that the producers have plausible denial; it's not as if they are giving contestants answers to quiz questions. Some of the contestants may not even understand the level of manipulation.
There are pretty comprehensive non-disclosure contracts in place, as well.
320. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:33:31 PM
BTW, did anyone catch how the maze was rigged tonight to favor one tribe?
321. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:35:18 PM
JAH:
Me too. I know the winner, I know the runner up, I know third place and fourth place.
I know who got attacked by the crocodile; I know if Colby bangs Jerri, and if so, for how long.
I know all of this.
But I, too, choose to keep my secrets.
Jadetard's "theory," such as it is, is conveniently incapable of disproving.
If the most likeable contestant wins, Jadetard says, "See? The person the audience most liked won. That proves it's rigged."
If the LEAST likeable contestant wins, Jadetard says, "See? The villain is of course the most interesting character; that proves the show is rigged."
Her theory implies, of course, that Jadetard should be able to predict the winner (obviously, the "most interesting participant"), but she claims that she is incapable of providing that information at the moment. Or unwilling to do so.
In short, she's a crazy shut-in raving bitch. She's also hiddeously stupid, which is what you'd expect from a career low-level civil servant.
322. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:36:06 PM
Why so rude, Judith?
323. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:36:27 PM
"BTW, did anyone catch how the maze was rigged tonight to favor one tribe?"
Yes, the flashing neon arrows stating "This way to the next waypoint" sort of gave the game away.
324. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:36:41 PM
Oh, you mean the fact there were no sides in the one maze? That it was just a box with the trails laid out on the ground with arrows?
I'm sorry to be so snide but of course, I didn't see any such rigging...I'm waiting for you to enlighten me.
325. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:41:18 PM
Why so rude, Judith?
Because I feel you only come into this thread to act superior and be condescending. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Actually, I apologize even if I'm right because I have no reason to be rude since I enjoy reading what you have to say even if I don't buy into it.
326. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:41:24 PM
I imagine Jadetard will claim that the greater number of persons in Kucha tribe slowed them down, so that made the game "rigged" against them.
But that's just typical Jadetard stupidity. Kucha didn't take advantage of its greater numbers, which it should have. They could have left a single person at each waypoint to help guide the group there when necessary.
327. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:43:15 PM
I must have touched a nerve with Spaz.
Oh well.
Some people are bitter they couldn't get into a second- or first-tier school. Some people are bitter they're handicapped.
Some people overcome obstacles; others believe in rigged TV shows.
328. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:43:38 PM
Ace:
I thought so, too...they didn't play it very smartly.
329. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:46:00 PM
Judith:
I am neither rude nor condescending.
I am, however, always correct. It's a gift.
330. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:48:07 PM
JAH:
They shouldn't have bunched up, either. Keep the "worm" long, with two meters between everybody, each person keeping the next person in line of sight. That allows you to cover up a lot more yardage, more quickly.
Jadetard's just pissed that I picked up on her brilliant theory re: how the maze-game was "rigged."
Such a small, small mind. Always thinking. Always thinking "brilliant insights," always disappointed to find out that everyone else has considered them as well, then dismissed them as not-so-brilliant.
331. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:49:00 PM
Jade:
I didn't call you rude...I said consescending and superior.
And I apologized, if you'll notice.
But I reserve the right to be skeptical of that "always correct" part....if you don't mind.
332. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:50:38 PM
And of course, I spelled condescending incorrectly...my usual luck.
333. JadeGold1 - 2/22/2001 10:50:47 PM
There are several strategies the tribes could have employed to "attack" the maze. It didn't matter.
The mazes were not identical.
334. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:50:52 PM
Jadetard,
So, how was the maze-game "rigged"? Because Kucha had "too many people," right?
Did I ruin your brilliant insight for you, dipshit?
What a moron.
335. AceofSpades - 2/22/2001 10:52:28 PM
"The mazes were not identical."
Yes, one was filled with quicksand and vampire bats.
Oh wait, no -- one maze's walls were only two feet high, allowing Okaguru to see the entire maze-scape.
336. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:53:12 PM
I guess the guy said they were identical, knowing people could stop their tapes and prove it easily enough that they were not. Then, someone else could sue Burnett because he has all that extra money laying around.
337. JudithAtHome - 2/22/2001 10:55:35 PM
I'm going to worry about this all night now...have to leave you good people and go to bed. Later....
338. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:13:10 PM
To All Posters:
I said no flaming and I meant it.
Trash each other's arguments to your heart's content but refer to each other by official handle (or polite nickname) and without personal attack.
From this point on, all offending posts will be moved to Inferno without notice and without exception.
Final Warning.
339. Fielding - 2/23/2001 10:24:54 PM
Are we allowed to post Spoilers?
340. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:26:46 PM
In white font, with big SPOILER warnings, I suppose.
Check for dust before you post.
341. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:34:48 PM
fielding--
What did you have in mind? Inside info on future episodes?
342. Fielding - 2/23/2001 10:37:08 PM
This link purports to disclose a major event from next week. If it is true, it will be a major event in the history of television. Personally, I think it is bullshit disinformation planted by CBS.
Major SPOILER - Click at your own risk!
343. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:40:25 PM
Eeek! DO NOT CLICK ON THAT SPOILER!!!
It's too big of a spoiler. "Major" sort of understates it.
The spoiler reveals (or purports to reveal) the contestant involved in the "unfortunate incident" seen in the previews for next week's show.
344. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:42:24 PM
It also seems pretty real.
345. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:43:28 PM
I see no problem with links to other sites that purport to know what's going on.
If somebody actually knows something, please keep it to yourself. Use it to win the Bragging Rights Pool, fast approaching.
346. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:46:14 PM
Aytch,
well, it's what appears to be a newspaper clipping from an Australian newspaper.
And it jibes with what *appears* to happen in the previews for next week's show.
347. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:47:28 PM
Interesting link -- and entirely appropriate.
It makes me suspicious that the news clipping doesn't have a date. Do Aussie papers routinely use a date? Who's our Oz expert?
348. JadeGold1 - 2/23/2001 10:48:23 PM
Rigged.
349. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 10:49:44 PM
Yesterday I stumbled across Survivor for the first time and watched three-quarters of the remaining hour.
I think it terrible: a bunch of hyped-up hardbodies going tribal and carving up their own members. But no, they do differ from a real tribe. Real tribes don't throw out their members unless they are old and no longer productive, or go against tribal law and custom. These single-minded middle-class Americans are practicing social Darwinism at the behest of network television. And the assembly with torches and paint and shit... what a farce of ceremony.
Being Americans I imagine that at least one of the group will experience a religious conversion after the show and dedicate his life to blessing lamas or some such nonsense.
350. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 10:51:30 PM
I found myself embarrassed watching the show.
351. AytchMan - 2/23/2001 10:55:49 PM
scott--
Think H. L. Mencken.
352. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 10:57:41 PM
"Real tribes don't throw out their members unless they are old and no longer productive, or go against tribal law and custom."
Real tribes aren't made up of English-speaking computer software engineers competing for a cash prize, either. And real tribes don't have camera crews following them around.
Scott Loar is apparently surprised to find a *game* at the heart of a game show.
353. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 10:57:44 PM
The allusion escapes me, for I've never read H.L. Mencken.
Yes, it's true.
354. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 11:00:35 PM
No, Ace, it's not a game. It's - among others - English-speaking computer software engineers going tribal for the camera's eye, being called to great ceremony (even getting dolled up with warpaint) by a producer, and clutching the totem after running behind their pennant around a maze.
355. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 11:01:14 PM
Rather, "inside" a maze.
356. ScottLoar - 2/23/2001 11:07:47 PM
Come to think of it, several "real" tribes have been followed by camera crews. National Geographic gave some writers and photographers a pretty good living by doing so.
357. AceofSpades - 2/23/2001 11:14:06 PM
Scott,
I'm sure it appears very, very silly to you *now*. It seemed absolutely ridiculous to me when I was first forced to watch it.
Watch two more episodes and it won't seem so silly anymore.